#linuxcnc | Logs for 2013-03-03

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[00:20:31] <R2E4_> OK thanks pcw_home.
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[00:29:59] <R2E4_> Does the 7i787 have to powered for it to start? Its bombing right after it initializes the 5i25 board.
[00:30:10] <R2E4_> 7i77 I meant to put.
[00:30:28] <pcw_home> Yes
[00:31:58] <R2E4_> 5volts?
[00:32:06] <R2E4_> whew.....
[00:32:15] <R2E4_> At least I have an excuse.......
[00:33:03] <pcw_home> If the hal file references pins on the 7I77 that require power
[00:33:05] <pcw_home> The analog I/O /enables require 5V power from the host or externally
[00:33:06] <pcw_home> the field I/O needs its 10-32V power if digital ins or outs are referenced
[00:34:11] <pcw_home> Be careful with the 5V power options, the 5I25 and 7I77 have to be jumpered appropriately for each mode
[00:34:45] <pcw_home> (external 7I77 5V power or cable power from 5I25)
[00:35:11] <R2E4_> I saw those jumpers.
[00:35:33] <R2E4_> Didnt realiuze I needed them for it to start.
[00:35:56] <R2E4_> boards are really nice, btw....
[00:36:05] <pcw_home> They _must_ be set correctly before connection the 5I25 to the 7I77
[00:36:17] <pcw_home> connecting
[00:37:08] <pcw_home> Thanks we're pretty happy with both
[00:37:51] <R2E4_> oops, I left them at default and connected them.
[00:39:24] <pcw_home> They should be set correctly for cable power but this is not guaranteed
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[00:40:52] <R2E4_> cable power meaning powered by the 5i25?
[00:40:58] <pcw_home> What you especially DO NOT want to do is have the 7I77 jumpered for external power
[00:41:00] <pcw_home> the 5I25 for cable power and the apply external 5V power to the 7I77
[00:41:01] <R2E4_> oe external 5v?
[00:41:46] <pcw_home> cable power means the 7I77 gets its power from the signal cable from the 5I25/6I25/whatever
[00:42:07] <pcw_home> There are manuals for both cards...
[00:42:26] <R2E4_> I have printed them and they are right next to me....:-)
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[00:42:44] <R2E4_> I shut it down and am going to set them for cable power.
[00:43:29] <R2E4_> Signal cable meaning the db25 cable that came with the two boards.
[00:43:39] <pcw_home> Yes
[00:43:41] <pcw_home> The hm2-servo7i77.hal demo file does have one line that uses a field I/O pin, but you can just comment it out if you want to try without field I/O running
[00:44:29] <pcw_home> (which requires field power)
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[00:45:27] <R2E4_> ok
[00:46:28] <pcw_home> There is a yellow 5V LED on the top right edge of the 7I77 so that should be on plus a couple more yellow LEDs at the bottom middle of the 7I77 (+-15V) if you have 5V power
[00:46:47] <pcw_home> top left edge I meant
[00:47:47] <R2E4_> W1 and W2 is down so breakout power is disabled.
[00:47:53] <R2E4_> on the 5i25
[00:50:06] <R2E4_> So I have enable them to supply 5 v to the 7i77
[00:51:35] <pcw_home> Just W2
[00:51:56] <pcw_home> (you are not using the other connector)
[00:52:18] <pcw_home> only P3
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[00:53:30] <R2E4_> And I move W5 on the 7i77 to the right.
[00:54:04] <pcw_home> No, to the left
[00:54:37] <pcw_home> If you are using cable power W5 must be to the left
[00:55:45] <pcw_home> that is 5V come from 5I25, and TB1 on the 7I77 is unconnected
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[00:55:58] <R2E4_> right. I read it wrong.
[00:57:11] <R2E4_> ooh. now we have nice yellow leds.
[00:58:14] <pcw_home> you will have one more LED on the top right edge of the 7I77 if you apply field power
[00:59:07] <R2E4_> ok, i see it.
[00:59:09] <pcw_home> or you can put that off and edit the hal file and comment out the one reference to field I/O
[00:59:10] <pcw_home> so linuxcnc can start
[00:59:41] <R2E4_> yeah thats what i'm going to do when its finished booting.
[01:00:23] <R2E4_> Do you need a series1 BOSS 9 crt and keyboard and controller?
[01:00:31] <R2E4_> hehe
[01:00:36] <pcw_home> if you apply field power, gnd is the bottom pin
[01:01:03] <pcw_home> Looks like it came out of Star trek IICRC
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[01:02:00] <R2E4_> haha, yeah, IT looks like it wants to move all the time.
[01:02:00] <pcw_home> (at least the housing)
[01:02:18] <R2E4_> I am waiting for it to lift its arms.
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[01:07:57] <R2E4_> comment out the entire standard I/O block?
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[01:09:11] <uminded> can I compile just the HAL component layer?
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[01:12:16] <R2E4_> WEBE good..... woooohoooo!
[01:12:41] <R2E4_> RIVERDANCE!!!\
[01:14:18] <pcw_home> I think
[01:14:20] <pcw_home> net home-switch <= hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.7i77.0.0.input-00
[01:14:21] <pcw_home> is all the I/O used
[01:16:27] <Jymmm> Um, yum??? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NzUm7UEEIY
[01:16:53] <pcw_home> If field power is applied (and linuxCNC re-started) , all the input and output pins should appear
[01:17:50] <andypugh> uminded: I don't think you can do that easily. You can certainly choose to only _use_ thr HAL layer.
[01:18:02] <skunkworks> pcw_home: I just got to play with the 5i25 - the firmware file for the rutex seems to work (not hooked to hardware but scoped the pins and they step on the right pins)
[01:18:11] <skunkworks> very cool - 'just worked'
[01:18:57] <pcw_home> depends on my datasheet reading ability...
[01:19:00] <uminded> Ahh, Im using a headless ARM board so was not sure if I could
[01:19:41] <andypugh> There are ideas to separate HAL out as a "machinekit" package.
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[01:21:11] <skunkworks> He is going to try it tomorrow - but was virtual jogging at 60ipm which is twice as fast (and as fast as he wants to go) than he had before
[01:21:45] <andypugh> uminded: I do lots of testing in just the HAL layer, and for special-purpose machines it can be useful to just not use the G-code interpreter and GUIs. A single-purpose Python/Glade GUI, and using the limit3 HAL component as the motion controller can be a useful setup.
[01:22:52] <skunkworks> the rutex drives according to him have 100khz max frequency. So we have the step and space set to 5us
[01:23:30] <pcw_home> skunkworks: Sounds good, glad you are there to get him going
[01:23:54] <skunkworks> I think he could have handled it - but it was neat to see an actual 5i25
[01:24:05] <skunkworks> in the wild
[01:24:34] <pcw_home> pretty minimal compared to a 5I20
[01:25:20] <skunkworks> 'tight' :)
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[01:40:08] <cradek> pcw_home: have you figured out anything about sample configs or xml files? I would like to get started soon.
[01:42:28] <pcw_home> I have the 2 minimal ones that are basicall hm2-stepper and hm2-servo with only the needed changes for 5i25/7i76 and 5i25/7i77
[01:44:15] <pcw_home> also I have the 5i25 bitfiles (should someone want to change configs)
[01:52:25] <andypugh> Jymmm: The Hot-dogs are just food. I am more offended by http://youtu.be/Tl5slcDq1Ic
[02:02:15] <skunkworks> I don't know exactly what motherboard he was using but latency was in the 30us. without idle=poll in the kernel params - linuxcnc would throw a realtime error.
[02:02:28] <skunkworks> it was a newer asus/amd combo like I have been playing with
[02:02:46] <skunkworks> he has other hardware though to run it on if there is issues.
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[02:10:58] <L84Supper> http://tinyurl.com/cvhr3uf "Typical open loop resolution of 1.5nm" Resolution (nm) 100 , so which is it?
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[02:12:17] <JesusAlos> hi
[02:14:25] <andypugh> Hi JesusAlos
[02:14:40] <andypugh> Rather late in .es?
[02:15:35] <JesusAlos> yes but I sticking with HAL pins
[02:15:36] <andypugh> L84Supper: The link goes to a page that only mentions 1.5nm (twice)
[02:15:38] <JesusAlos> :)
[02:17:32] <L84Supper> andypugh: if you click on the link for any of the 3 positioners it drops down a list of specs
[02:17:40] <andypugh> JesusAlos: "halcmd show pin" can ne very useful
[02:18:43] <andypugh> L84Supper: Hmmm, yes. Sales pitch does not match spec error.
[02:19:31] <JesusAlos> I create a push button in axis and do this action: net resume_pulsador pyvcp.resumebutton => halui.program.resume => halui.spindle.start
[02:19:49] <JesusAlos> and create a error http://imagebin.org/248751
[02:20:29] <andypugh> Ah, yes. Is the system paused at the time?
[02:20:43] <JesusAlos> yes
[02:21:05] <andypugh> I think you need to stop before resuming.
[02:21:29] <JesusAlos> I start when is stop
[02:21:47] <JesusAlos> I need do in one action
[02:21:50] <andypugh> There are things that aren't allowed in pause, as pause is a special case of run
[02:22:23] <andypugh> Though I am vague on the details.
[02:22:40] <andypugh> I know that MDI commands don't work in pause. (or run)
[02:23:24] <andypugh> Though purely in HAL I would have thought that the halui.program.resume button ought to work.
[02:23:57] <andypugh> Does it work without the spindle.start part?
[02:24:22] <JesusAlos> I create a buton pause program and spindle
[02:24:27] <JesusAlos> and un ok
[02:24:53] <JesusAlos> but a button need resume and start spindle
[02:25:01] <JesusAlos> but this action don't run
[02:26:22] <andypugh> JesusAlos: This is something where all I know is that it is complicated, but not what it is about it that is complicated.
[02:28:29] <JesusAlos> there are a logical function delay?
[02:28:51] <andypugh> There are. That might not be what is required, though.
[02:29:27] <andypugh> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man9/timedelay.9.html But that migjht not be the answer
[02:30:45] <JesusAlos> Maybe when I push buton resume, start spindle and when time delay resume program
[02:31:32] <ReadError> is there a more feature rich UI addon
[02:31:40] <ReadError> something that lets you tweak acceleration and other fun stuff
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[02:34:38] <andypugh> ReadError: I think that once the TP has the accelllerations it never looks again
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[02:41:50] <Jymmm> http://www.google.com/search?q=zerg+rush
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[02:54:22] <JesusAlos> GG
[03:07:37] <JesusAlos> andypug: net ResumePush timedelay.0.in <= pyvcp.resumebutton => halui.spindle.start
[03:07:41] <JesusAlos> it run ok
[03:07:45] <JesusAlos> thank
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[03:15:46] <JesusAlos> GN
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[03:57:39] <R2E4_> .
[03:58:00] <abetusk> I suppose it's bad form to ask about GRBL issues in this channel?
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[04:33:50] <Connor> okay, so. On this Arrow 500 we're working on.. It has a resolver on the motor.. which will be replaced with a encoder... and a proximity switch that's keyed off the spindle pulley. 2:1 ratio.
[04:34:17] <Connor> the Proximity switch has a raised section on 1/2 the pulley, and not on the other half.
[04:35:39] <Connor> I'm thinking that we can use the rising edge, or falling edge as a index.. and use the encoder on the motor and be able to do rigid taping with it. and also be able to position the spindle correct orientation for the ATC.
[04:35:44] <Connor> anyone see any issues ?
[04:44:13] <jdh> if you are putting a new encoder on it, why not just use one with a Z
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[05:35:07] <AR__> anyone know a good source of cheap single point thread mills?
[05:36:49] <Connor1> jdh Encoder would be on the motor.. and due to the 2:1 ratio.. it would have issues indexing tool for the ATC
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[06:16:08] <Tom_itx> http://www.abtoolsinc.com/prod/thread-mills/
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[07:01:23] Cylly is now known as Loetmichel
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[07:02:03] <Loetmichel> mornin'
[07:03:43] <toastydeath> Tom_itx, thread milling is baller
[07:03:53] <toastydeath> esp since you can do it on machines that don't have rigid tapping
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[07:44:15] <mazafaka> Scales like z11 up to z16 can be used in smartphone with 800x480 resolution? I am trying to prepare off-line maps (for off-road)
[07:50:08] <Tecan> http://i.imgur.com/u7UR6yL.jpg
[07:50:56] <mazafaka> nice, Tecan good nutrition lifestyle
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[07:51:28] <DJ9DJ> moin
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[09:16:26] <JesusAlos> Hi
[09:16:30] <JesusAlos> good morning
[09:19:32] <micges> hi
[09:21:07] <Loetmichel> Tecan: harhar... my breakfast lately: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=8220
[09:21:53] <Tecan> whats in the bottle ?
[09:21:58] <Tecan> haut sauce ?
[09:22:11] <micges> beer ;)
[09:22:14] <Loetmichel> hot sauce
[09:22:25] <Tecan> you must work out alot to be dining like that
[09:22:35] <Loetmichel> or do you mean the soda stream bottle? Cola
[09:23:01] <Loetmichel> Tecan: just carring a 108kg body around, no workout ;-)
[09:24:06] <micges> you'll short your life with such food
[09:24:21] <Loetmichel> any shorter than by me smoking?
[09:24:52] <Loetmichel> anyway, i better die with 70 than 100 and had fun
[09:24:53] <micges> hmm, not really ;)
[09:25:50] <Loetmichel> but you're right: i had bought a bicycle last year on advice from the doc.
[09:26:23] <Loetmichel> "your blod pressure is through the roof, do some cardio and loose some weight"
[09:26:39] <micges> did you use it from that time?
[09:26:55] <Loetmichel> ... so i bought a bike to ride to work... just the weather isnt like it at the moment ;)
[09:27:54] <Loetmichel> ... from time to time. getting buns from the bakery and stuff
[09:28:15] <micges> same here, but for winter I've moved work to same building :)
[09:28:33] <Loetmichel> the 12km to and from work is to much for my stamina at the moment. dont want to arrive at work covered in sweat ;-)
[09:30:11] <micges> start with few rounds around neighborhood every day, after 2 months 12km will be no big deal
[09:30:42] <Loetmichel> ... as i just had brought my wife to the airport i am just having breakfast: a coffee and a bowl of chicken/noodle soup ;-)
[09:31:09] <micges> meh
[09:31:30] <Loetmichel> the problem with the commute is: i cant ride the street... its partly a motorway whit no bikes allowd
[09:32:00] <Loetmichel> and the alternate route is straight through the woods.., Not really for the untrained ;-)
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[09:35:30] <micges> same here, but lately they build few km of bike road, straight line but better this or nothing
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[09:38:13] <Loetmichel> my daily commute: https://maps.google.de/maps?q=im+frankfurter+grund+25,+63073+nach+Am+klinggraben+1,+63500&saddr=im+frankfurter+grund+25,+63073&daddr=Am+klinggraben+1,+63500&hl=de&sll=50.074926,8.863829&sspn=0.085271,0.154324&geocode=FSBP_AId80WGAClxfMaDIxK9RzEJWlkqkI-j8g%3BFbS7-wIdlDiIACk7MpRZrxW9RzGD-rZaJ1JnSg&t=h&z=13
[09:46:25] <JesusAlos> if my machine is in some swithc position, when start linuxcnc, it can't start button
[09:46:28] <JesusAlos> why?
[09:46:57] <mazafaka> Loetmichel: 12 km on bicycle with electric motor for slopes would be allright. And besides, sweating can end up once.
[09:48:25] <Loetmichel> mazafaka: if i was trained a bit the electric wouldnt be necessary
[09:48:37] <Loetmichel> will do (some time in the future) ;-)
[09:48:47] <micges> JesusAlos: what is the error message?
[09:49:51] <mazafaka> Loetmichel: and put a comfort seat. No one really rides far on hardtails, even me. I can not seat on it in the middle of a third day.
[09:50:05] <Loetmichel> mazafaka: it has
[09:50:22] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=11339
[09:50:38] <Loetmichel> its a gel seat
[09:51:19] <mazafaka> You need mudflaps.
[09:51:47] <Loetmichel> for what?
[09:53:23] <JesusAlos> micges: don't remember exactly, but somethin like, can't start when swithc on
[09:54:52] <micges> JesusAlos: you must move out from switch manually or enable in Axis 'override limits' check box and move out from it by jog
[09:55:46] <mazafaka> Loetmichel: for to look as if you have serious intentions, and ambitions as well.
[09:56:06] <JesusAlos> I can't move mechanic, is very strong. Use oeverride
[09:56:08] <JesusAlos> Thank
[09:56:32] <Loetmichel> i dont care how i look, one way or the other... comes with an oversized ego ;-)
[09:57:15] <mazafaka> this is absolutely not true.
[09:58:26] <Loetmichel> and you know that because?
[09:59:04] <JesusAlos> in http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/config/ini_homing.html#cha:homing-configuration ini configuration don't appear 'override limits'
[09:59:25] <JesusAlos> maybe you say 'HOME_IGNORE_LIMITS' ?
[10:00:18] <micges> JesusAlos: we need exact error message then
[10:01:32] <micges> bbl
[10:05:49] <JesusAlos> http://imagebin.org/248772
[10:05:52] <JesusAlos> is this
[10:05:58] <mazafaka> i know that people care how they look
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[10:43:08] <JesusAlos> micges: is this image the error when one shich is ON
[10:43:21] <JesusAlos> and cant't put start on machine
[10:56:20] <Loetmichel> *grr* i HATE bugs in firmwares... just hat do dismantle my Arcos 80 G9 turbo... desent swicht on/chagre if too long on the charger. battery discharged below 3,3 Volts: refuses to charge... open up, put the lab psu on the battery for a few secs to get it above 3,4V, close, put the cahrger on: all fine... anyone who refuses to open it has to send it to the manufacturer :-(
[10:56:59] <Loetmichel> mazafaka: i dont. i have a wife to care about my looks. i dont.
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[11:30:06] <mazafaka> Loetmichel: You simply look fashionable on this bike, you know and say otherwise.
[11:32:32] <Loetmichel> mazafaka: absolutely. cant find any fashionable on a slightly obese guy sweating and coughing on a cheap bike.
[11:32:44] <Loetmichel> s/any/anything
[11:34:23] <mazafaka> jthornton: I want to say we looked on your shop, on those photos, and decided that it is one way to build relatively cheap but fully functional room. We here can have about -39 - -48 Celsius, and in fact, many shops were built as it is a warm climate around, brick wall must be 0,6 m thick. And I saw many new cottages with thin, half-brick width walls. This is very amusing how many people build cold garages and cottages.
[11:35:13] <mazafaka> Loetmichel: you're at least fashionable, and 'same young boy' for your mom and wife.
[11:36:21] <mazafaka> In Russia, many shops are very cold, windows has holes, and such
[11:36:26] <Loetmichel> dont think so. my mom and my wife both love me, so they arent really objective in this matter ;-)
[11:37:00] <mazafaka> Loetmichel: but you would look differently if you, let's say, drink and do not work at all.
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[11:37:21] <jthornton> reminds me of the tank factory pictures with both ends wide open
[11:37:22] <mazafaka> So you actually create your style yourself, day by day.
[11:37:57] <Loetmichel> mazafaka: i drink. occasionally (very). and (corporal) work: sometimes ;-)
[11:39:29] <Loetmichel> the point is: i dont CARE how i look, as long as i feel well. which isnt the best at the moment: no stammina left, muscle power is sufficient, but 6 times the flight of stairs up to the office a day an i sound like an old steam locomotive ;-)
[11:40:52] <mazafaka> Loetmichel: I have bought Samsung Galaxy SII here, new one for about 7-11% of its price. I think it is produced in China, it's camera offered to take photos in 640x480 pixels only. And USB-t-micro-USB cable is useless. So until I has bought another cable, I think what can be next: it lacks GPS module, or it's Android 2.3 is not fully functional, or so...
[11:41:24] <mazafaka> Loetmichel: I want to say you something, very sincere and honestly.
[11:41:32] <Loetmichel> so what? give it back, get a not pirated one?
[11:42:28] <mazafaka> no, i can use its 800x480 display, I bought it for USD 60 instead of USD 600
[11:45:14] <mazafaka> I lacked some money again, and tried controversial foods, some coffee and such. Even cabbage salads with glutamate spices were not a good salad. I started lacking stamina, legs smelled after day in tight working boots. It's like 'lacking quality of living'. I now stopping it and retract back to cabbage and apples and such.
[11:46:32] <mazafaka> I want to say something sincerely and honestly as I'd said: I can use and your monitor, too! (If I had plugged it to my laptop :)
[11:56:19] <mazafaka> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=KPKV5B_94YY#t=1213s
[11:58:58] <mazafaka> here's after a story of a cat who wanted to sit in warm place and left to live in the service with the name 'bonnet'
[11:59:57] <mazafaka> is a self-made vehicle, looks simple and can be used as tractor maybe, at least for snow and some cargo.
[12:04:02] <JesusAlos> by
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[12:06:03] <mazafaka> Loetmichel: 5m pickup, uses truck cabin and parts of GAZ-Gazelle, a van of which you have said it's pretty nice
[12:07:05] <Loetmichel> mazafaka: i didnt.
[12:07:10] <Loetmichel> i said its a PITA
[12:07:23] <Loetmichel> because my company had one
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[12:18:49] <mazafaka> you probably said 'nice PITA truck' patio van maybe. A van to which it is nice to look from the patio. Yup.
[12:23:34] <Loetmichel> mazafaka: PAIN IN THE ASS!
[12:23:37] <Loetmichel> and it is
[12:30:07] <DJ9DJ> lol
[12:33:22] <mazafaka> then take a walk, don't sit in patio
[12:36:34] <mazafaka> small fully driven trucks with manipulators are nice, it could help to build something, even to buy some equipment.
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[13:55:17] <JT-Shop> http://imagebin.org/248784
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[14:02:41] <andypugh> Aha! A friend found a picture of somene building the widgets I bought: http://www.librascopememories.com/Librascope_Memories/Product_Literature_files/Shaft%20Encoders%20-%201967.pdf
[14:04:30] <JT-Shop> it a shelf knome?
[14:04:59] <andypugh> I can't see me using it, but it is lovely :-)
[14:05:06] <archivist> I though I was the shelf gnome around these parts :)
[14:05:06] <andypugh> I took the case off mine.
[14:05:15] <JT-Shop> it does look nice
[14:05:23] <andypugh> It's a multi-turn device.
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[14:06:11] <archivist> it is the sort of thing you can show on a shelf part disassembled
[14:06:14] <andypugh> There is a layer at the bottom with an encoder disc and contacts, then a gear stage, and a layer at the top
[14:07:42] <JT-Shop> http://imagebin.org/248788
[14:07:48] <archivist> hmm dust free, some of the women dont have the hair nets on properly
[14:08:02] <JT-Shop> the tubes moved a tad when welding...
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[14:09:48] <andypugh> JT-Shop: That looks sturdy
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[14:10:16] <JT-Shop> thanks, I think I over built it a tad but that's ok too
[14:10:31] <archivist> I never seen JT under do anything :)
[14:11:45] <andypugh> This encoder looks like is is probably a 65-turn x 64 position device.
[14:12:24] <archivist> there is a list at the end of that scan of partnumber to type
[14:14:20] <andypugh> I hadn't noticed that there was more than one page!
[14:15:27] <archivist> that looks like a complete brochure/catalogue scan
[14:21:30] <andypugh> So, mine is 128 CPR, 64 turns.
[14:22:02] <andypugh> And I probably have no use for them at all :-)
[14:25:13] <jdh> http://www.wimp.com/stirlingengine/
[14:26:58] <jdh> I was 17 when I started. Same for both kids. 18 is more normal
[14:27:03] <jdh> <urk>
[14:28:41] <Jymmm> Does anyone actually ever DO anything with a sterling engine other than watch it move?
[14:29:22] * JT-Shop wonders if I put the chunk in the oven at 500
[14:29:32] <JT-Shop> f would it wander back to shape
[14:29:46] <jdh> what would you actually do with a stirling engine other than watch it?
[14:30:15] <JT-Shop> I've seen a fan that sits on top of a wood stove to circulate air
[14:30:21] <Jymmm> the same thing one might do with any other engine, connect a tool to it
[14:30:53] <JT-Shop> stirling engines were popular in the early 1900's or so
[14:31:13] <Loetmichel> if the stirling is big enough it can charge some batteries for the lighting/TV in the cottage ;-)
[14:31:30] <Loetmichel> right from the fireplace
[14:31:40] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: The fan sounds much like me connecting a PC fan to a solar panel.
[14:31:45] <Loetmichel> without neted of diesel/petrol engine running
[14:32:09] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: What kind of wattage could be produced?
[14:32:16] <Loetmichel> MUCH more reliable than solar
[14:32:38] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: If you have fire and fuel =)
[14:32:41] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: i have made one witr about 100W at the shaft
[14:33:02] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: Not spindle wattage, electrical wattage.
[14:33:04] <Loetmichel> that sits on top of a bullerjan
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[14:33:26] <Loetmichel> somewhere in the 90 watts electric
[14:34:07] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: the firewood IS a necessity ina a cottage in the alps witout powergrid-connect
[14:34:23] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: What about in the 300W range (13.8VDC @ 20A)
[14:34:41] <Loetmichel> should be doable, will be a bit bigger though
[14:35:03] <andypugh> Jymmm: The idea of the stovetop fan is to circulate the hot air from the stove around the room.
[14:35:03] <Loetmichel> a nd then you can use a normal car generator
[14:35:18] <Jymmm> andypugh: Yes, I know.
[14:35:30] <andypugh> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Vulcan-Stove-Stirling-engine-powered/dp/B002Y4UOYM
[14:35:53] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: sounds like I could use steam for that.
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[14:37:17] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: to much hazzle
[14:37:33] <Loetmichel> a stirling is just "easy going"
[14:37:42] <Loetmichel> "fire and forget"
[14:38:04] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: and how big of a fire would be needed for such a thing?
[14:38:08] <Loetmichel> that thing had run a couple of years until replaced by a creek turbine
[14:38:24] <Loetmichel> normal fireplace is sufficient
[14:38:34] <Jymmm> brb, coffee refill
[14:38:40] <Loetmichel> or a small "cannon oven"
[14:39:26] <Loetmichel> the stirling needed about 500 Watts heat to generate 100 electric
[14:39:37] <Loetmichel> or in thet ballpark
[14:39:57] <Loetmichel> a normal stove cann exert about 6kW to 111111111111120kw heat
[14:40:06] <Loetmichel> depending on the size of the fire
[14:40:16] <Loetmichel> ups
[14:40:22] <Loetmichel> 6kw to 20kw
[14:40:59] <Loetmichel> <- sitting in the bathtub, seems the lenovo keyboards are not as waterproof as the i bm ones ;-)
[14:41:00] <andypugh> This is a 55kW Stirling engine: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:STM_Stirling_Generator_set.jpg
[14:43:20] <Loetmichel> andypugh: a little big fpr a remote cottage ;-)
[14:43:50] <andypugh> Depends on the size of the workshop under the remote cottage?
[14:43:52] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: fireplace, ok... how bog would the sterling need to be to get 300W electrical?
[14:44:14] <Jymmm> big
[14:44:21] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: depends on your craftmanship.
[14:44:50] <Loetmichel> anywwhere from 3 times to 20 times the shaft power is needed in heat
[14:44:57] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: more specific? showbox? paper case? lawnmower engine?
[14:45:12] <Jymmm> shoebox
[14:45:35] <Loetmichel> bog?
[14:45:37] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: could it fit and be carried in a daypack?
[14:45:44] <Loetmichel> size?
[14:45:46] <Loetmichel> hmm
[14:46:24] <Loetmichel> the 100w was about the size of a keg, with the generator attached
[14:46:47] <Loetmichel> for 300W i suppose it woiuld be a backpack on its own
[14:47:00] <Jymmm> and rough weight?
[14:47:10] <Jymmm> gustimate
[14:47:12] <Loetmichel> about 20kg i suppose
[14:47:33] <Loetmichel> most of it cooling fins
[14:47:37] <Jymmm> That's way too much
[14:48:21] <Loetmichel> if you want something portable: go with a fuel cell
[14:48:29] <Jymmm> link?
[14:48:30] <Loetmichel> and methanol.
[14:48:44] <Jymmm> still have to carry fuel
[14:48:48] <Loetmichel> already developed in that power range, althpug not really cheap
[14:49:12] <Loetmichel> and not bulky, the 135W military version fits in a small shoe carton
[14:49:39] <Loetmichel> sorry, no link, seen it a while ago in a military advertisement
[14:49:51] <Jymmm> I'm looking for alternatives to power a portable transceiver
[14:50:15] <Jymmm> I'm thinking camp fire here
[14:50:15] <Loetmichel> that needs 300W?
[14:50:24] <Jymmm> 20A, yes
[14:50:29] <Loetmichel> ouch
[14:50:41] <Loetmichel> but only sending?
[14:50:49] <Jymmm> transceiver
[14:50:55] <Loetmichel> reciving will not be so power hungr<y?
[14:51:00] <Jymmm> no
[14:51:08] <Jymmm> correct I mean
[14:51:18] <Loetmichel> so at normal you will need 150watts
[14:51:31] <Loetmichel> so add a small lipo cell fpr the peaks
[14:51:32] <Jymmm> No, 300W
[14:51:39] <Loetmichel> average
[14:51:55] <Jymmm> will depend on MODE.
[14:52:06] <Jymmm> If digital, maybe even more
[14:52:24] <Jymmm> Voice, not so much
[14:52:34] <Jymmm> CW, always
[14:52:59] <Loetmichel> you are one of the dumb blokes thet transmit a "radio programm" on the amateur radio bands?
[14:53:20] <Jymmm> I'm an Extra.
[14:55:23] <ReadError> hey guys, with metric hardware, like a counter sunk m3 screw
[14:55:29] <ReadError> is a 90degreen countersink proper?
[14:55:42] <ReadError> degree*
[14:55:46] <ReadError> (morning fingers)
[14:55:58] <Loetmichel> anyway: if you need 300W continous AND transportable. . GO FOR A MILITARY FUEL CELL
[14:56:10] <Loetmichel> ANYTHING OTHER WILL BE A BIT BULKY TO CARRY AROUND
[14:56:19] <Loetmichel> oh, sorry, capslock
[14:56:32] <Loetmichel> red: yes
[14:56:33] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: link me
[14:56:37] <Loetmichel> ReadError
[14:57:00] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: i cant. i've seen it some time ago in a military publication
[14:57:05] <Loetmichel> no link providet
[14:57:08] <Loetmichel> -t+d
[14:57:42] <ReadError> so i should be able to use math, and the hypot would be the length of the screw head
[14:58:11] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: I can't get or even look at something that's specialized like that if I have no info. Google just shows the hype
[15:00:54] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: The high price tag and reliability will probably not make a fuel cell a right choice
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[15:03:19] <ReadError> Loetmichel: have you cut aluminum on your router?
[15:03:35] <ReadError> ive never cut with such a high spindle speed
[15:03:55] <ReadError> but i assume i need to maybe decrease my DOC and increase the speed
[15:05:01] <Loetmichel> ReadError: yes,and steel
[15:05:44] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: german site with a smaller version: http://www.sfc-defense.com/sites/default/files/2_datenblatt_emilycube2500_v4_de.pdf
[15:06:15] <Loetmichel> they have something more "interesting" if you have a security clearaqnce ;-)
[15:06:24] <Jymmm> http://www.horizonfuelcell.com/store/h500.htm
[15:06:53] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: Yeah, if this was a perm install, maybe. but just too costly and specialized.
[15:06:56] <ReadError> Loetmichel: what type of feed/speed you use
[15:07:19] <andypugh> ReadError: 90 to 92 degrees: http://www.roymech.co.uk/Useful_Tables/Screws/cap_screws.htm
[15:08:30] <syyl_ws> ReadError
[15:08:35] <syyl_ws> pretty simple
[15:08:55] <syyl_ws> keep up with the cutting speeds/feeds the tool manufacturer supplies
[15:09:16] <syyl_ws> and reduce the doc to a level the machine can achiev
[15:09:48] <syyl_ws> i do it that way on the router at work...
[15:11:38] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: your link is a h2-cell. thats not portable because the fuel cylinders will be a bit heavy
[15:11:43] <ReadError> i paid $3 for these endmills, lets say there are no manufacture specs ;)
[15:11:59] <Loetmichel> but the methaol fuel ceklls aher ab it better in that domain
[15:12:20] <syyl_ws> for our 3eur endmills there are at least basic specs ;)
[15:12:21] <Loetmichel> ReadError: look at the concurrent specs
[15:12:29] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: I'm not even considering a fuel cell in the least. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20wQOZbHXvo
[15:12:32] <syyl_ws> get a catalogue
[15:12:39] <syyl_ws> search a similiar endmill
[15:12:45] <syyl_ws> and use the cutter data
[15:12:49] <Loetmichel> thes small 1/8" TC bits are more or less identical though all manufactuerers
[15:13:41] <syyl_ws> i made an excel sheet with the speed/feeds doc and with of cut for my endmills at work
[15:14:07] <syyl_ws> if you are interested i can upload it next week
[15:14:49] <syyl_ws> ranges from cheap 1/8 carbide endmills over hss endmills to highgrade coated carbide endmills for hard-milling steel
[15:15:15] <syyl_ws> also hss drills and reamers
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[15:15:49] <fomox> morning, anyone here know if a CO2 laser could be used to weld glasses?
[15:16:13] <Jymmm> fomox: wattage?
[15:16:29] <fomox> dont know, thats really what I need to know :P
[15:16:32] <Loetmichel> jymm: that engine in the viedo puts out 10 Watts at BEST
[15:16:36] <fomox> would 50W do?
[15:16:40] <Jymmm> no
[15:16:51] <fomox> 100? :P
[15:16:58] <Jymmm> doubt it
[15:17:03] <fomox> 150?
[15:17:46] <Jymmm> not sue, still doubt it. You have to sustain enough heat to fuse the glass
[15:17:58] <fomox> no, not glass
[15:17:59] <fomox> glasses
[15:18:07] <fomox> the frame
[15:18:09] <Jymmm> whats the difference?
[15:18:27] <Jymmm> elaborate
[15:18:43] <fomox> the material you are welding would be the difference
[15:20:07] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: Kinda interesting http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ll598PVTHAw&feature=endscreen&NR=1
[15:20:37] <fomox> Jymmm: Do you have any idea how powerfull laser I need to weld glasses?
[15:21:38] <Jymmm> fomox: you say glasses, then I say glass , and you say no. so you need to provide details and elaborate
[15:22:11] <fomox> http://i01.i.aliimg.com/photo/v0/206976145/Kids_Glasses_Frame.jpg that kind of frame
[15:22:29] <fomox> its a 2-3mm thick metal piece
[15:24:37] <L84Supper> 100W should get you by for just about any frame imaginable
[15:24:50] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, what _is_ that big chunk of iron for?
[15:25:31] <fomox> L84Supper: awesome
[15:26:30] <ReadError> syyl: as long as the chips per tooth stays the same, its okay?
[15:26:36] <syyl_ws> jip
[15:26:40] <L84Supper> fomox: what are you going to use for optics?
[15:26:48] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LOcyjZthsg
[15:26:51] <mazafaka> If you in Europe go from one country to another, do you need to change mobile operator, or there's some kind of a cheap roaming?
[15:26:52] <syyl_ws> and you dont go to high on the surface speed
[15:27:21] <fomox> L84Supper: I have no idea, I dont know so much about lasers so in the first place I need to know if it is possible
[15:27:40] <L84Supper> http://www.esslinger.com/b-and-d-bd60-pro-desktop-laser-welder.aspx
[15:27:42] <Loetmichel> mazafaka:CHEAP roaming: whats that?
[15:28:02] <fomox> L84Supper: wow, a bit expensive :P
[15:28:18] <ReadError> syyl_ws: what do you mean by surface speed?
[15:28:20] <mazafaka> Loetmichel: roger
[15:28:20] <ReadError> the 1st cut?
[15:28:33] <mazafaka> Stirling Engine runs on what fuels&
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[15:28:43] <syyl_ws> cutting speed
[15:28:44] <L84Supper> http://www.orionjewelrywelders.com/orion-100c.php
[15:28:45] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: cant see tat. gema issues
[15:28:50] <Loetmichel> wrong music
[15:28:51] <ReadError> steam i think mazafaka
[15:29:14] <syyl_ws> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speeds_and_feeds#Cutting_speed
[15:29:23] <Loetmichel> MarkusBec: a stirling runs on ANY fuel
[15:29:32] <Loetmichel> because it is a heat engine
[15:29:42] <Loetmichel> external combustion enginge
[15:29:45] <L84Supper> http://www.riogrande.com/Product/PulsePoint-Studio-Plus-100-Laser-Welder-with-Camera/710010?Pos=1
[15:29:47] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: Someone's home brew wood fired stiriling running a 7A gen
[15:29:49] <fomox> L84Supper: Would it be possible to get something like that DIY style to cut costs a bit?
[15:30:06] <fomox> Or is this kind of stuff things you leave to professionals?
[15:30:29] <fomox> I was hoping to get something like this for max 2000 usd
[15:30:38] <mazafaka> ReadError: why stirling engine is a certain type of engine? What differs it from others?
[15:31:39] <L84Supper> fomaox: look for used, ebay, pawn shop etc
[15:31:54] <Jymmm> mazafaka: stiriling is the closest to perpetual motion as it comes =)
[15:32:05] <fomox> L84Supper: What are those machines called?
[15:32:32] <Jymmm> mazafaka: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ll598PVTHAw&NR=1&feature=endscreen
[15:33:39] <L84Supper> fomox: laser welders
[15:33:40] <mazafaka> Jymmm: oh, at the end of the video, yeah.
[15:34:08] <Jymmm> mazafaka: Well, the whole video I just linked you to
[15:34:08] <fomox> L84Supper: Thanks for the help :D
[15:35:35] <andypugh> mazafaka: On roaming in Europe, the answer is "no" and "no" :)
[15:35:51] <andypugh> You don't need to change provider, but there isn't cheap roaming either.
[15:37:36] <L84Supper> but you can purchase cheap SIM cards in many places
[15:37:49] <L84Supper> but then your number changes
[15:38:06] <mazafaka> Jymmm: amount of water turns into vapour then cools down during making of the work, then again. And everything is exactly balanced? The balance is 1 to 1.
[15:38:27] <andypugh> mazafaka: http://www.o2.co.uk/international/o2-travel/pay-monthly
[15:38:35] <Jymmm> mazafaka: No water, just heat energy to mechanical energy
[15:39:12] <mazafaka> heat energy to mechanical energy? By means of what?
[15:39:33] <Jymmm> mazafaka watch the last video I linked you to, he takes it apart
[15:39:46] <mazafaka> oh
[15:39:48] <andypugh> The Stirling Cycle uses air as a workign fluid. The air is moved to a hot place in the system and the pressure increases. That pressure pushes on a piston that turns the crank, and the crank moves the air to a cold place, where the pressure reduces, pushing the piston the other way.
[15:40:11] <L84Supper> expansion, everybody knows heat makes things expand :)
[15:41:34] <fomox> L84Supper: You sound like a guy who knows alot. Do you know what more than this http://www.power-tec.co.uk/item.aspx?cat=822&item=7401 I need to be welding? :P
[15:41:47] <mazafaka> andypugh: "Calls back to the UK and within Europe - 28p per minute." And in the UK, it would cost how much pences?
[15:42:03] <andypugh> I don't know, I never make phhone calls :-)
[15:42:29] <mazafaka> ha, I am too. it's for navigator
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[15:43:38] <andypugh> I have something like 300 minutes free on my contract every month. My phone is currently showing 41 minutes total talk time.
[15:43:39] <L84Supper> fomox: that is a cutting tool with a spinning abrasive disk for cutting through welds, the description can be misread
[15:43:53] <andypugh> And I think that for the last 12 months, not the last month.
[15:43:55] <fomox> L84Supper: Oh
[15:44:20] <L84Supper> it's nothing like a Star Trek Phaser :)
[15:44:35] <fomox> hehe :P
[15:45:23] <andypugh> Laser welding at home is likely to go quite wrong :-)
[15:45:28] <fomox> L84Supper: A 100W engraving machine couldnt be used for this purpose?
[15:46:04] <mazafaka> Jymmm: to be honest, I do not quite understand why candle makes the piston to move.
[15:46:26] <Jymmm> mazafaka: The candle or alcohol burner are heat sources
[15:46:40] <mazafaka> and?
[15:47:19] <Jymmm> mazafaka: the heat just maintains the motion, still needs to be started by hand
[15:47:24] <mazafaka> Jymmm: ait in the 'combustion' chamber heats up and propels the piston?
[15:47:38] <Jymmm> mazafaka: There is no combustion
[15:48:08] <Jymmm> stirling engine != combustion engine
[15:48:18] <mazafaka> Jymmm: and this is essential to this type of engine, which efficiency s close to 99,9%?
[15:48:25] <andypugh> mazafaka: Did you read my description of the Stirling cycle? It's really very simple.
[15:48:46] <roh> too bad one cannot easily lasercut such stuff...
[15:48:51] <Jymmm> mazafaka: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stirling_engine
[15:48:53] <mazafaka> andypugh: no, i have missed it
[15:49:05] <roh> easily.. as in small available machines... not those able to cut metal
[15:49:13] <andypugh> The Stirling Cycle uses air as a working fluid. The air is moved to a hot place in the system and the pressure increases. That pressure pushes on a piston that turns the crank, and the crank moves the air to a cold place, where the pressure reduces, pushing the piston the other way.
[15:49:41] <Jymmm> mazafaka: Basically, it's the differencial between hot side and cold side that make it continue to run.
[15:50:10] <mazafaka> so, this air is pushing the piston backwards, not only a wheel of the masses
[15:50:22] <Jymmm> mazafaka: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stirling_engine
[15:50:35] <andypugh> fomox: What do you want to laser weld? If it is steel then you need to get it to 1500C. The rate at which heat will conduct away from a 1500C spot to a cooler surrounding area is much more than 100W.
[15:51:03] <andypugh> Look at it another way, 100W is only just enough to get the mass of tungsten in a light bulb up to welding temperature.
[15:51:10] <fomox> andypugh: Its 2mm thick glasses frame.
[15:51:12] <fomox> hehe
[15:51:16] <roh> what wavelength do laser welders use usually?
[15:51:33] <roh> is that this 1µm stuff (nd-yag)
[15:51:35] <fomox> I was hoping that the temperature could be reached since the workpiece is so small
[15:51:36] <roh> ?
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[15:52:34] <andypugh> fomox: Try it on something a bit like the glasses frame, but not the actual frame.
[15:52:43] <Jymmm> A 2000W CO2 can cut metal, so can a 50W YaG
[15:52:59] <mazafaka> oh, I understand now
[15:53:15] <fomox> andypugh: My father owns a optical store so I can try it on frames. He wants to be able to use a laser welder since it will be easyer than what he is using now
[15:53:52] <roh> Jymmm: we got 40W co2 and it doesnt even do 35µm thick stuff... (copper on pcb)
[15:53:55] <roh> ;)
[15:54:23] <fomox> Jymmm: YaG?
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[15:54:27] <Jymmm> roh: add 1960W =)
[15:54:30] <roh> but using it on galvanized aluminium is really nice
[15:55:03] <roh> Jymmm: heh i was thinking rather going nd-yag for metals when i can afford it/need it
[15:55:16] <Jymmm> roh: Not galbanized, annodized. And the laser is "bleaching" out the annodize, not actually marking the metal.
[15:56:09] <roh> there seem to be small, diode pumped fibre lasers at 1µm now... which are stackable. so its 'easy' adding more modules for more power later
[15:56:46] <roh> Jymmm: aaah.. i see.. well.. i only get it ready made an dont have much clue about the chemical process involved... sounds quite nasty anyhow
[15:56:58] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx: it's my splitter beam http://imagebin.org/248805
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[15:57:15] <Jymmm> roh: No, quite easy actually, no fumes either
[15:59:29] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, holy crap are you planning to split sequoias?
[15:59:51] <JT-Shop> well I did get a bit carried away with the design...
[16:00:09] <Tom_itx> you may need a big rig to pull it
[16:00:46] <L84Supper> power output is just that, you also have to give it dimension, 100w over 1 m^2 area will have a vastly different effect than 100W over 0.01mm^2
[16:02:03] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, lookin good though
[16:02:40] <roh> Jymmm: interresting. i was always thinking when adding metals under current into liquid one gets gas coming out
[16:03:37] <Jymmm> roh: Huh? That sounds like you are describing a home made chemical battery or electroplating
[16:04:16] <Jymmm> or etching if that be the case =)
[16:04:47] <L84Supper> aluminum trees
[16:05:21] <Jymmm> roh: Yes, hydrogen gas is created if you toss together salr water, DC power source and some dissimilar metals
[16:07:18] <roh> ;)
[16:08:53] <Jymmm> roh: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8Xo43sfLgY
[16:09:24] <roh> yeah.. thats what i meant
[16:09:40] <andypugh> JT-Shop: Also usefull for pressing shafts, making cider and the manufacture of artificial diamonds.
[16:13:04] <archivist> JT must have broken something in the past and is making up for it
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[16:16:42] <R2E4_> Thats all there is to nickel plating?
[16:16:56] <Jymmm> R2E4_: pretty much
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[16:17:46] <R2E4_> So if I create a small part in a piece of metal. I can stick it in a bath with batteries and it will come out nickel plated?
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[16:17:55] <R2E4_> JEEZ "What a country!!"
[16:19:30] <JT-Shop> andypugh: it does have more stroke than my press but not the tonnage http://imagebin.org/248807
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[16:22:59] <andypugh> R2E4_ You may not need the battery: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electroless_nickel_plating or the bath: http://www.caswellplating.com/electroplating-anodizing/brush-plating-products.html
[16:23:03] <R2E4_> Heres my press I built. http://imagebin.org/248808
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[16:23:26] <JT-Shop> cool
[16:25:30] <andypugh> US mains outlets always look surprised: http://www.caswellplating.com/plug-n-plate-nickel-kit.html
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[16:26:48] <Jymmm> andypugh: lol
[16:27:34] <Jymmm> andypugh: More like... O_o
[16:28:52] <andypugh> Does my tool rack really need to provide slots for 40 tools?
[16:29:38] <andypugh> I only have 28 holders at the moment, and I can't ever imagine populating them all.
[16:30:10] <andypugh> Or maybe I should go with 56, to match the LinuxCNC limit :-)
[16:30:10] <Jymmm> famous last words
[16:30:21] <Tom_itx> what he said...
[16:30:37] <jdh> 56 sounds oddly arbitrary
[16:30:47] <andypugh> Errr, yes.
[16:30:55] <archivist> message size limit
[16:31:12] <andypugh> It's the max size of the NML message lize divided by the size of a tool table entry.
[16:31:27] <andypugh> No, it doesn't make sense for the tool table to travel by NML.
[16:31:48] <archivist> dumb idea to send the whole table, only need send changes and used tools
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[17:23:56] <R2E4_> Some examples will not run with linuxcnc spitting an error about bad characters in the gcode. Anyone else having this issue?
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[17:24:33] <jdh> not me.
[17:24:55] <jdh> sample .ngc files shipped with linuxcnc or something else?
[17:25:43] <cradek> give the full error message for a useful answer
[17:26:28] <archivist> R2E4, those examples with more axes than your machine give that error
[17:26:50] <archivist> bad error message imo
[17:33:34] <Tom_itx> find the errors and remove them
[17:38:59] <mazafaka> are there any mills which allow low RPM and big chip load? And are they just big, with gearbox after the motor?
[17:39:48] <cradek> yes, big and old mills are like that. they were made in the days before carbide (or even before HSS) so they had very low surface speeds
[17:40:12] <mazafaka> I plan to say 'most of usual cnc mills do not allow low RPMs and high chip load'. This theme is controversial, but I am rather about to formulate the problem.'
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[17:40:34] <mazafaka> cradek: you meant cnc mills?
[17:41:06] <cradek> not particularly
[17:41:15] <archivist> not related to cnc or not
[17:41:52] <mazafaka> archivist I meant that at about 20 RPM and big torque we get errors
[17:42:10] <archivist> cutting speed is all about machine strength/rigidity and the tooling wear rate
[17:42:59] <archivist> what sort of errors
[17:43:25] <mazafaka> we had motor and ratio 5:1, so at 60 RPMS on spindle it went at 12 RPM, and almost always there were errors during milling. During drilling there was no errors, torque was even and less.
[17:43:46] <archivist> what errors
[17:44:01] <mazafaka> it stopped, and only after staying in the night, worked on next morning
[17:44:08] <mazafaka> stopped with errors
[17:44:24] <mazafaka> or did not follow the trajectory.
[17:45:12] <archivist> following error you mean, just too much force for the axis drive probably
[17:45:14] <mazafaka> I have some kind of a paper work, archivist , the point is to 'stop getting max torque at low RPM at regular CNC mill'.
[17:45:20] <mazafaka> exactly
[17:46:01] <archivist> in the hands of the programmer/operator
[17:46:22] <mazafaka> originally a drilling machine with NC, turned into CNC mill, can not be loaded with low RPM and high and uneven torque on the spindle.
[17:46:37] <mazafaka> ha, programmer isn't me/
[17:47:08] <mazafaka> i would use tool diameter compensation as well, after learning how the program reacts.
[17:47:17] <archivist> at least the machine can protect itself
[17:47:22] <mazafaka> uhu
[17:47:55] <mazafaka> And workers said it worked for only 40 minutes one time in three days
[17:48:29] <archivist> so use it within its limits instead of abusing it
[17:48:41] <mazafaka> 'Why don't you use 40-mm mill bit?' <-- again and again.
[17:49:04] <mazafaka> that's what boss, and another boss, and programmer asked.
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[17:49:41] <mazafaka> I am now in MRO department, but I'm going to the seminar of young specialists
[17:49:49] <mazafaka> with this theme.
[17:51:32] <mazafaka> I am cashing z14 scale world map, which produces 6 million files, don't know if it's OK for smartphone and flash card///
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[17:52:44] <mazafaka> oh, no 67 millions of files, 115 days to download with SAS.Planet Will the hdd handle it? Who knows...
[17:59:06] <Jymmm> 115 DAYS?! wth?
[18:00:54] <fomox> where should I look if I want to buy a co2 laser? My main use will be to cut mdf
[18:01:56] <roh> depends on your time to money ratio
[18:02:10] <roh> we are quite happy with a chinese model after our own mods on it.
[18:02:23] <Loetmichel> fomox: cutting MDF with a laser will SMOKE
[18:02:47] <roh> serious made machines are much more expensive (not the 2-4k euro range but >12keuro)
[18:03:10] <roh> Loetmichel: exhaust and air assist is mandatory on that, sure.
[18:03:18] <roh> how thick is your mdf?
[18:03:22] <fomox> Loetmichel: shold i go for a mill instead?
[18:03:46] <Loetmichel> fomox: I would.
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[18:04:11] <Loetmichel> cant mill right inside angles, though
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[18:04:21] <fomox> ok
[18:04:45] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: sure you can, just 1/16" radius
[18:05:02] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: that's not a sharp corner
[18:05:07] <fomox> i do have experience with cnc mills
[18:05:07] <Loetmichel> its a radius ;)
[18:06:11] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: Nah, just depends on one's definition of sharp =)
[18:06:14] <mazafaka> Jymmm: servers gives out 128x128 jpegs. I also want z18 scale to know where the drugs stores are - in case of a zombi attack or EOD
[18:06:22] <Loetmichel> fomox: my last mill had a sacrifical plate made of MDF... a MESS also, but with a good dust vacuum really usable and realvie cheap
[18:06:24] <fomox> roh: I would love to be able to cut 20mm mdf
[18:06:25] <roh> fomox: if you want to work on >3-5mm mdf i'd suggest using a mill too. laser has its limits depending on construction and in that case also machine cost.
[18:06:55] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=5501
[18:06:58] <fomox> My understanding is that it wont be a problem, just that it cuts several times
[18:07:00] <roh> 20mm mdf would need a really serious laser optics if possible at all. never done that.
[18:07:00] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=4935
[18:07:11] <Jymmm> mazafaka: 128cx128 is a thumbnail
[18:07:12] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=4821
[18:07:19] <roh> sounds like >=100W co2 and the right lenses for such deep focus areas to me.
[18:07:21] <fomox> ah
[18:07:37] <fomox> roh: But if I use a 50W and just cut in several layers?
[18:08:05] <Loetmichel> that machine had cost less than 4000 eur materials for 1500 by 1020 by 160mm work area
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[18:08:27] <fomox> I was thinking about buying something like this and modify it
[18:08:28] <roh> fomox: i dont think thats enough, since you'd need to widen the v-formed cut ever time you go deeper too
[18:08:29] <fomox> http://viewitem.eim.ebay.no/NEW-CO2-LASER-ENGRAVING-CUTTING-MACHINE-ENGRAVER50W-d2/260782708136/item
[18:08:30] <mazafaka> Jymmm: it's size of pictures which create a map with text, this is for server side. In some software they can be turned into one big map (only several colours)
[18:08:51] <fomox> Also, a laser sounds cooler than a mill :P
[18:09:11] <roh> fomox: with 50W you'll get 6-8mm from what i've seen. anything else takes for ages
[18:09:23] <fomox> Okay
[18:09:32] <mazafaka> this scale for maps, and navigator for the win. and images for off-road
[18:09:45] <Loetmichel> fomox: a mill can also do certain depths
[18:09:48] <fomox> Sounds like I need to go with a mill for now then
[18:09:54] <fomox> yeah
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[18:09:55] <Loetmichel> or full 3d fpr that matter
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[18:10:11] <Jymmm> mazafaka: If it takes 115 days to copy, how long to you think it take to render
[18:10:15] <fomox> I fell in love with the mill at our school, and thats when I started building cnc machines :P
[18:10:39] <roh> i dont believe the 50W in that case
[18:10:54] <roh> the machine isnt wide enough. usual 30-40W tubes are atleast 80cm long
[18:11:12] <fomox> roh: Oh, hehe :P
[18:11:22] <fomox> Well, I guess it is chinese so...
[18:11:25] <roh> and while the power goes up they get longer... the machine is only 102cm.. so.. i dont really think the tube is >80cm
[18:11:40] <roh> our laser was labeled 40W and i think its rather 35
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[18:12:09] <fomox> Okay
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[18:12:19] <roh> and you get more gain in tube power by proper realignment and cleaning as well as better optics than 5 extra watt bring
[18:12:22] <Jymmm> http://oi56.tinypic.com/11r3fhz.jpg
[18:12:48] <fomox> ah
[18:12:54] <roh> bbiab... fooood
[18:13:00] <fomox> Well, I`ll have to go for food too
[18:13:02] <fomox> thanks for the help
[18:13:08] <fomox> brb :P
[18:13:29] <mazafaka> Jymmm: it renders only what is seen on the monitor, 1024x1024 for example.
[18:14:29] <mazafaka> the problrm is that 2/3 of the files are of 159 B, and 1/3 is of 500 B, and 68 millions of such files turns out into 18 GB.
[18:15:01] <mazafaka> but it whole world, offline, streets with no names are seen.
[18:16:05] <Jymmm> not very useful unless it's geo tagged
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[18:23:18] <IchGuckLive> hi all B)
[18:23:27] <pfred2> hello
[18:24:18] <IchGuckLive> does the rt deadzone interact with the absolut scale ?
[18:24:33] <pfred2> not bad, but not as good as I expected I've spiked the latency to almost 12,000ns so far
[18:24:55] <IchGuckLive> the calibration of the joypad works but linuxcnc deos not regionize the calibration at all
[18:25:19] <IchGuckLive> pfred2: thats good for steppeprs almost
[18:25:41] <pfred2> IchGuckLive my other machine does 18,500 and I use it for steppers
[18:25:44] <IchGuckLive> this can retch > 15m/min
[18:26:16] <IchGuckLive> im working all mashines with 30.000
[18:26:36] <IchGuckLive> at a may of 3600mm/min
[18:26:41] <IchGuckLive> max
[18:26:58] <IchGuckLive> on full load
[18:27:24] <pfred2> my machine can only run 1.3 IPS
[18:27:32] <IchGuckLive> pfred2: where are you from USA Europ Asia
[18:27:36] <pfred2> USA
[18:27:44] <IchGuckLive> im in germany
[18:28:03] <IchGuckLive> did you look into the hal
[18:28:10] <IchGuckLive> parport reset maybe to 5000
[18:28:11] <pfred2> ought oh just hit 12,277ns latency but I am only running the live distribution
[18:28:19] <IchGuckLive> it is most 500 that is to low
[18:28:43] <IchGuckLive> plug in a USB and you see your worst
[18:29:09] <pfred2> I don't think I would plug USB in while I am running a job
[18:29:14] <IchGuckLive> usb Drive Stick some lke that
[18:29:27] <pfred2> if you want to see the worst run hwinfo
[18:29:44] <pfred2> when it probes hardware it will spike bad
[18:30:31] <IchGuckLive> that is not to be done at latency test you will see no hardware only usb LIKE joypads going on and off sticks
[18:30:49] <IchGuckLive> but keep it at 20k it good enoph
[18:31:14] <pfred2> I'mdoing it now to see worst case scenario on this system
[18:31:16] <IchGuckLive> did you manuell put the things to your hal ?
[18:31:35] <IchGuckLive> or only stepconf
[18:31:39] <pfred2> my my it never went over the top jitter score
[18:32:02] <pfred2> still I wish it was better than 12277ns
[18:32:08] <IchGuckLive> you may have a 100k into the hal
[18:32:35] <IchGuckLive> as stepconf passes the jitter when not checked during config
[18:32:42] <pfred2> I don't know i am running live offthe CD right now I have not done anything yet on this system
[18:32:58] <IchGuckLive> keep it and go on
[18:33:10] <pfred2> I just wanted to see how it does and I guess it isn't bad
[18:33:11] <IchGuckLive> get 20k in the entry
[18:33:30] <mazafaka> Jymmm: only z16 or z18 are scaled. And this are maps as e.g. google maps, it is for server
[18:34:09] <IchGuckLive> im figting with the joypad ligitech F310
[18:34:36] <pfred2> I just reset and I wish it coud hold this latency score
[18:35:02] <pfred2> 5,146ns would be really nice!
[18:35:08] <IchGuckLive> on stepper you need less then 50.000 thats all
[18:35:37] <pfred2> oh my 18,500ns machine I can't run in my top microstepping mode it can't gen steps fast enough
[18:36:04] <IchGuckLive> its shoure some entry in the hal that makes your day
[18:36:11] <IchGuckLive> not your latency
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[18:36:37] <IchGuckLive> pfred2: are you able to post your ini and hal
[18:37:20] <pfred2> IchGuckLive what do you mean?
[18:37:37] <IchGuckLive> what Driving stage are you using
[18:37:52] <IchGuckLive> Gecko ,leadshine ,tb6560
[18:38:05] <pfred2> TB6560
[18:38:13] <Tom_itx> why are single point thread mills do damn expensive?
[18:38:17] <IchGuckLive> nice i got lots of them
[18:38:25] <pfred2> Tom_itx b ecause everyone loves money
[18:38:47] <pfred2> IchGuckLive not like mine
[18:38:52] <IchGuckLive> pfred2: youv gone over the tread in the wikipedia
[18:39:01] <Tom_itx> the grind doesn't look that tough over any other mill
[18:39:14] <IchGuckLive> did you change the Condenser on the bottom
[18:39:34] <IchGuckLive> 1000pf -> 150pf
[18:39:37] <pfred2> IchGuckLive these are my motor drives http://www.instructables.com/id/TB6560-Microstepping-Bipolar-Chopper-Stepper-Motor/
[18:40:42] <pfred2> if the caps you're talking about are the ones I am thinking they are 150pf is too low
[18:41:03] <IchGuckLive> 150pf is wright
[18:41:05] <pfred2> 1,000pf is specced bottom as far as I can remember
[18:41:18] <IchGuckLive> in the blue boards there are 1000
[18:41:36] <pfred2> yes 1,000pf is as low as Toshiba says you can go
[18:41:52] <pfred2> it is 1,000pf to 2,200pf if memory serves me
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[18:42:07] <IchGuckLive> bad it gives you timing well above the mesurments
[18:42:53] <IchGuckLive> Chinese Blue Boards TB6560 CNC Stepper Motor Driver Controller Board 150000 150000 150000 150000
[18:43:19] <IchGuckLive> with 1000pf
[18:43:39] <IchGuckLive> and on 150pf you can use the l297/298 numbers
[18:44:21] <IchGuckLive> ok im off
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[18:44:31] <pfred2> boy browser open glxgears going and this is rock seady at 10,721ns
[18:46:26] <pfred2> does anyone here know if the nVidia binary drivers are any better, or worse than nouveau?
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[19:04:24] <syyl_ws> Tom_itx
[19:04:37] <syyl_ws> the grinding of a singlepoint thread mill is indeed very simple
[19:04:56] <syyl_ws> you can do it on every single lip cutter grinder like a deckel s0 or so..
[19:06:38] <archivist> I made a single point indexed one
[19:07:22] <archivist> bit naughty on the insert
[19:07:40] <syyl_ws> normal threading insert for the lathe?
[19:07:54] <archivist> yes http://www.archivist.info/cnc/stage6/p1010245.jpg
[19:09:29] <syyl_ws> i bet that sounds horrible when milling a thread ;)
[19:09:36] <syyl_ws> *pang**pang**pang**pang*
[19:10:21] <archivist> not silent
[19:10:33] <syyl_ws> do you use it in steel?
[19:11:00] <archivist> no that was for a brass thread for a miners lamp
[19:11:18] <pfred2> a miners lamp?
[19:11:23] <jdh> http://www.mcmaster.com/#v-slot-milling-cutters/=lpxzxq
[19:11:25] <syyl_ws> the lamp of a miner
[19:11:48] <pfred2> syyl_ws my grandfather came from Minersville so I think I know what a miners lamp is
[19:12:09] * syyl_ws scratches his head
[19:12:23] <pfred2> he gave the coal mine to his brother and got out!
[19:13:08] <pfred2> archivist was yours the kind you spit in to make it work?
[19:13:31] <archivist> was a customers like http://lindal-in-furness.co.uk/MinersLamps/minerslamps.htm
[19:14:11] <archivist> proper one not acetylene
[19:14:11] <pfred2> nah that is something different
[19:14:24] <pfred2> the ones you spit in run on calcium carbide
[19:14:48] <archivist> those are acetylene lamps
[19:15:06] <archivist> unsafe in a gaseous mine
[19:15:19] <pfred2> all mines are unsafe
[19:16:54] <pfred2> my grandfather's brother died of black lung when he was 55
[19:17:31] <Loetmichel> archivist: no, only if the metal wire hood is missing ;-)
[19:18:03] <pfred2> Loetmichel they needed something to hold the canary in
[19:18:16] <Loetmichel> pfred2: hrhr
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[19:18:50] <Loetmichel> no i meant: the acetylene lamps with a metal gauze instead of glass are fine for explosive enviroment
[19:19:06] <pfred2> fine for you maybe ...
[19:19:22] <Loetmichel> when the lamp pflame INSIDE the gauze flashes u you know its time tu RUN ;-)
[19:19:24] <Loetmichel> to
[19:19:36] <Loetmichel> its like the canary
[19:19:59] <Loetmichel> only that the lamp flashes bright while the canary falls from his seat
[19:20:01] <pfred2> I can't imagine a more God awful jobthan mining
[19:20:15] <jdh> middle school teacher
[19:20:19] <Loetmichel> pfred2: modern mines are more or less OK
[19:20:33] <Loetmichel> btdt in my 20ties
[19:20:53] <pfred2> when I was in high school I worked in a ketchen with no windows on Saturday you'd go in work and leave and never see the sun no thanks!
[19:21:17] <Loetmichel> still black as a black hole when coming out of the coal mine, but MUCH less corporal work than 100 years ago
[19:21:46] <pfred2> I think someone is hunting in my backyard
[19:22:06] <pfred2> if they keep it up I just might have to go outthere and tell them to get lost
[19:24:08] <Loetmichel> pfred perfect use for my quadcopter with the big lamps and the digicam
[19:24:23] <pfred2> I thought there used to be a place in Axis where I could run a latency test?
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[19:24:32] <pfred2> did they do away with that feature or something?
[19:25:43] <Tom_itx> i doubt it was there since you shouldn't run it with linuxcnc running
[19:25:58] <pfred2> Tom_itx why not?
[19:26:15] <Tom_itx> ask the gurus
[19:26:31] <pfred2> I'm pretty sure it is in my old setup
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[19:27:17] <pfred2> where's paper?
[19:29:25] <pfred2> grrr now I'm getting this message Cannot home while shared home switch is closed
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[20:12:08] <andypugh> Do you think I should paint this? And if so, what sort of paint? https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/9iEEoxDH2cYFwjGVZqpLNdMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
[20:14:22] <archivist> luminous snot green
[20:16:12] <archivist> no paint will help clean the tooling possibly... or hold dirt to grind away the tooling
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[20:16:51] <jdh> rebuild it with 316ss
[20:18:31] <jdh> my favorite color is "shiny"
[20:19:08] <Tom_itx> something to go with the rest of the decor
[20:20:06] <andypugh> Are you a bunch of gurls or something? I wasn't asking for advice about the _colour_! I was wondering what type of paint wil give a decent finish on plywood!
[20:20:21] <Tom_itx> enamel
[20:20:27] <Tom_itx> marine paint
[20:20:39] <Tom_itx> imron
[20:20:43] <Tom_itx> 2 part epoxy
[20:20:59] <Tom_itx> or water colors
[20:21:04] <Tom_itx> take your pick
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[20:21:47] <andypugh> Ah, yes, a nice colur-wash with watercolour then rag-roll it for an attractive texture.
[20:21:50] <Tom_itx> after it's sealed enamel would probably wear good
[20:22:04] <archivist> yacht varnish
[20:22:21] <Tom_itx> he probably has some of that
[20:22:35] <archivist> he should
[20:22:39] <r00t4rd3d> Mmmmm Vectric is releasing Aspire 4.0
[20:23:07] * r00t4rd3d boards vessel
[20:23:15] <jdh> line up to buy it!
[20:23:24] <andypugh> No, I have no yacht varnish. I have only ever sailed on a plastic boat, and always ones where other people get to do the maintainace.
[20:23:28] <jdh> I guess my IP indignation is misplaced at this point.
[20:25:47] <r00t4rd3d> funny, for people who bought 3.5 for 2K, they are selling 4.0 as an upgrade lol
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[20:26:30] <ReadError> welp
[20:26:32] <ReadError> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/25091878/Photo%20Mar%2003%2C%202%2003%2032%20PM.jpg
[20:26:36] <ReadError> router had no prob with aluminum
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[20:30:30] <Tom_itx> andypugh, do you have a tool changer for those?
[20:30:57] <Tom_itx> if not you should number the tool slots so you can preset a setup and know which is which
[20:31:40] <andypugh> I do intend numbering the slots, yes.
[20:31:56] <andypugh> Perhaps I should go for this paint? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Harrison-Lathe-L5-L5A-Machine-Blue-Grey-Machinery-Enamel-Paint-0-5-Litre-Gloss-/251172677199?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item3a7b0ee64f
[20:33:06] <Tom_itx> should do
[20:33:49] <andypugh> I don't actually know what colour the machine should be. Mine has been repainted in a paler tint.
[20:37:08] <andypugh> I think that the most likely paint is no paint, closely followed by some cheap one-coat gloss.
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[21:08:41] <Jymmm> andypugh: FM Red
[21:08:56] <andypugh> ?
[21:11:06] <Jymmm> andypugh: Fuck Me Red (lipstick, lil red dress, high heels, etc) eg http://thechive.files.wordpress.com/2012/12/melissa-chivette-17.jpg?w=500&h=400
[21:11:22] <andypugh> Ah
[21:13:27] <Jymmm> andypugh: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=FM%20red%20%28fuck%20me%20red%29
[21:13:56] <Jymmm> andypugh: Make it a sexy biotch of a mill =)
[21:14:09] <DJ9DJ> lol
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[22:10:21] <DJ9DJ> gn8
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[22:19:16] <Connor> So, I had asked this last night.. but.. no response.. guess people where asleep...
[22:19:24] <Connor> okay, so. On this Arrow 500 we're working on.. It has a resolver on the motor.. which will be replaced with a encoder... and a proximity switch that's keyed off the spindle pulley. 2:1 ratio.
[22:19:31] <Connor> the Proximity switch has a raised section on 1/2 the pulley, and not on the other half.
[22:19:34] <jdh> why not use the index pulse on the encoder
[22:19:38] <Connor> I'm thinking that we can use the rising edge, or falling edge as a index.. and use the encoder on the motor and be able to do rigid taping with it. and also be able to position the spindle correct orientation for the ATC.
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[22:20:31] <Connor> jdh: 2:1 ratio messes up the tool change. It has to be exactly positioned do to the lug on the CAT40 spindle.
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[22:22:25] <jdh> I don't know how it actually works, but I would assume once it has seen one index pulse, it knows the orientation for all positions
[22:23:21] <Connor> no. If the encoder is on the motor... 2:1 ratio.. the motor could turn ONCE and the spindle would be 180 out.
[22:23:33] <Connor> because the spindle only turned 1/2
[22:24:02] <Connor> by using a index on the spindle.. you "double" the encoder count..
[22:24:16] <Connor> and know exactly where the spindle is at all times.
[22:25:09] <jdh> I still find it hard to believe that it can't be handled in HAL
[22:25:32] <jdh> with the caveat above... I don't know how it actually works :)
[22:25:33] <Connor> You would have to "home" the spindle..
[22:25:51] <Connor> which really isn't desirable..
[22:26:17] <jdh> true. I assume the prox + resolver was how it did it originally?
[22:26:54] <jdh> mux the prox with the index pulse
[22:27:00] <Connor> Well.. possibly. Resolver might have had a index in it as well.. and they simply used the proximity to know if it was on the wrong wide.
[22:27:04] <Connor> err. wrong side.
[22:27:35] <pcw_home> you should be able to just wire the proximity sensor to the encoder counter index input
[22:27:57] <Connor> pcw_home: that's what I was thinking and forget the index on the encoder..
[22:28:11] <jdh> prox + cam seem less precise than encoder.
[22:28:29] <Connor> cam ?
[22:28:52] <jdh> the raised portion of the pulley
[22:28:52] <pcw_home> The other way would be to gate the encoder index with the prox
[22:29:37] <Connor> pcw_home: explain.. Would this be software or hardware based ?
[22:29:46] <pcw_home> could be either
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[22:29:55] <jdh> and2 the Z and the prox
[22:30:04] <Connor> bear in mind, this is using the 5i25 + 7i77 cards..
[22:30:12] <andypugh> Keep the resolver, ignore indexes?
[22:30:25] <andypugh> Resolvers are cool.
[22:30:30] <Connor> andypugh: Resolver is going..
[22:30:58] <Connor> he want's a plug-n-play solution.. and the resolver will take way too much time to figure out.
[22:31:08] <Connor> it's HUGE and way to many wires to figure out..
[22:31:13] <andypugh> Is there a smart-serial Resolver board yet?
[22:31:18] <andypugh> 6 wires?
[22:31:20] <Connor> plus, it still used the prox sensor.
[22:31:44] <andypugh> If you want to send the Resolver to me, I will pay postage :-)
[22:31:50] <Connor> I think it used more..
[22:32:17] <Connor> Off of the Arrow 500 Spindle..
[22:34:23] <pcw_home> I dont even have the 5I25 resolver interface done
[22:35:38] <Connor> yea. not going that route.. too hard. just replace with encoder and use the prox or something else to index the spindle itself and be done with it.
[22:35:56] <Connor> pcw_home: question, how long can the cable between the 5i25 and the 7i77 be?
[22:36:02] <pcw_home> If you mask the index you get the best accuracy but you may need to adjust the encoder so it index is in the center of the prox range
[22:36:09] <andypugh> Resolvers are genuinely better. But as you have noticed, not as easy.
[22:36:17] <pcw_home> 10 ft is suggested maximum
[22:36:53] <Connor> ugg. we need about 15 I think if we mount the computer in the front.
[22:37:38] <Connor> 6' will make the span.. I don't think 2' on each end will be enough.
[22:37:53] <pcw_home> shorter is better especially if you have a noisy environment
[22:38:20] <Connor> that was one reason for moving the PC up to the front to keep it away from the VFD's and drivers..
[22:38:59] <Connor> But if 10' is the max suggested.. then it's the max suggested.. I'll let him know.
[22:39:21] <andypugh> Control panel and monitor can be as far again from the PC..
[22:39:28] <pfred1> I'd sooner believe the interference was being transmitted through the power cables than the air
[22:40:11] <pfred1> try plugging the PC into another circuit leg
[22:40:41] <Connor> pfred1: not even to that point. planning on were to place the PC.
[22:41:14] <pfred1> although a decent power supply should be able to filter transients
[22:41:21] <pcw_home> In some ways its better that the PC be near the drives
[22:42:02] <pfred1> man I'm stoked this stupid 20 pin PSU this thrift store PC came with actually can drive this 20+4 system
[22:42:19] <pfred1> turns out you only need the +4 if you use the PCIe slot
[22:43:02] * pfred1 did not know that
[22:43:30] <pcw_home> Some Atom motherboards are really stupid and requite the separate 4 Pin connector
[22:43:49] <pcw_home> very silly on a low power MB
[22:43:54] <pfred1> they might use it for the CPU?
[22:44:06] <pfred1> as opposed to the 4 pin CPU connector
[22:44:14] <pcw_home> CPU is only a couple watts
[22:44:19] <pfred1> I know
[22:44:22] <pfred1> it doesn't make sense
[22:44:37] <pfred1> a whole atom system is only a couple of watts
[22:45:07] <pcw_home> All in all happier with the Hudson
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[22:45:21] <pfred1> I heard the latest atoms don't work on Linux
[22:45:29] <pfred1> there are no video drivers for them
[22:45:38] <pcw_home> They do but limited video
[22:45:55] <pcw_home> maybe framebuffer only not sure
[22:47:05] <pcw_home> Hudson runs hotter than the Atom but allows >5 KHz servo thread Never could get more than 2 with Atom
[22:47:07] <pfred1> is it normal for latency testing to be a wide range using the live CD?
[22:47:23] <pcw_home> wide range?
[22:47:31] <pfred1> like may I expect to see a tighter range of high latency scores on a hard disk install?
[22:48:13] <pcw_home> Dont know
[22:48:30] <pfred1> yeah depending on what I was doing I would see anything from 8000ns all the way to 12277ns once
[22:48:35] <pcw_home> but would not expect much difference
[22:48:50] <pfred1> accessing the CD seemed t oreally bog the system down
[22:49:05] <andypugh> It shouldn't make any difference. However you can tweak the kernel boot parameters (such as isolcpus) on a HD install and can't on a LiveCD
[22:49:11] <pfred1> with a HDD install I could make sure that doesn't happen running LinuxCNC
[22:49:52] <pfred1> andypugh I also couldn't change the video driver on the live I needed to reboot and if i did that well there goes the new driver
[22:49:56] <pcw_home> I get around 10 uSec worst case on the Hudson
[22:50:07] <andypugh> Does anyone here know how to downlaod and install PyCAM? (forum query: http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/forum/31-cad-cam/26131-cadcam?start=6#30810 )
[22:50:29] <pfred1> sounds like a python script
[22:50:58] <pfred1> usually you just chomd +x it and run it with python installed
[22:52:29] <pfred1> but I'll loko on the net and see if anything disagrees with that
[22:53:11] <pfred1> oh a debian package do I dare?
[22:53:51] <pfred1> the tar.gz will be easier to browse
[22:56:10] <andypugh> This is fun. I just got all the updates for one of my VMs. It now runs at 640x480 screen resolution. That's so small that the menu bar to change the screen resolution is pushed behind the notifications bar, so can't be selected to increase the screen resolution...
[22:56:41] <pfred1> well it almost ran here it comes +x out of the tarball
[22:57:23] <andypugh> Oh, good. A restart fixed it.
[22:58:30] <pfred1> hey it works
[22:58:47] <pfred1> I had to install python-gtkglext1
[22:58:58] <pfred1> it looks like a Pez candy
[22:59:27] <andypugh> Yeah, it's really quite easy from the deb
[22:59:40] <pfred1> I bet but I wanted to see what was going on with it
[22:59:45] <andypugh> I'll reply to the foru,, having now figured it out.
[23:00:09] <pfred1> yeah make sure you have all the deps then just run it
[23:00:49] <pfred1> oh look Psyco is not available (performance will probably suffer slightly)
[23:00:54] <pfred1> :)
[23:01:19] <pfred1> can't have too much Psyco with these computers i suppose
[23:02:09] <pfred1> heck I'm installing it just for the name alone
[23:02:25] <pfred1> # aptitude install python-psyco
[23:04:49] <pfred1> which Ubuntu version is LinuxCNC based on now? I can never get those names straight
[23:04:51] <andypugh> Hey! PyCAM is cool, and works. I never knew...
[23:05:27] <pfred1> because there is a warning in the install.txt about some older versions of ubuntu
[23:05:53] <pfred1> BEWARE: Debian "Lenny" and Ubuntu "Jaunty" (maybe also Dapper/Hardy/Intrepid) contain older "python-opengl" and "python-pyode" packages, that expose problems with PyCAM.
[23:06:25] <pfred1> they tell you to hack your sources.list and install from a later repo
[23:07:22] <pfred1> that is interesting I don't even have python-pyode installed but the probram runs here
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[23:08:36] <pfred1> this program is OK I guess if you want to spin a Pez candy on your screen what else is it supposed to do?
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[23:10:17] <andypugh> pfred1: Generate G-code to make your own giant Pez candy?
[23:10:30] <pfred1> mmmm Pez ...
[23:11:57] <pfred1> hey now I have a pair of blank dice
[23:12:03] <pfred1> I opened a new model
[23:12:48] <pfred1> woo open Box3.stl
[23:13:02] <pfred1> it reminds me of playing Dungeons and Dragons
[23:13:59] <andypugh> http://xkcd.com/1114/
[23:16:26] <pfred1> andypugh http://i.imgur.com/pHHj6XG.jpg
[23:17:10] <Connor> pcw_home: what input would I use on the 7i77 if I wanted to mux the 2 indexes together ?
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[23:19:57] <andypugh> Connor: The trick might be to do something clever with index-enable, so that it is only active during the relevant half-cycle.
[23:20:31] <andypugh> As the actual encoder indexing is handled in hardware.
[23:20:46] <Connor> index enable ?
[23:21:00] <andypugh> Yes
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[23:21:21] <Connor> is that done via a I/O input, or some sort of hardware ?
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[23:21:36] <andypugh> Yes
[23:22:25] <Connor> yes which one.. a separate I/O.. or use a external electronics to mux them together..
[23:22:51] <andypugh> Either gate the physical index pulse and the prox together in harware, and connect to the 7i77 index input, or do something in HAL with the index-enable signal.
[23:23:33] <andypugh> The index pulse isn't visible in HAL. But index is only ever used when index-enable is asserted.
[23:23:40] <Connor> so either one. so, if we go software route.. which I/O on the 7i77 should be used.. needs to be non-field I/O I guess.
[23:24:30] <andypugh> All io is sampled in the servo thread, so no reason to choose one over the other.
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[23:25:57] <Connor> I was under the impression from pcw_home that Encoder input was what was needed and field I/O wasn't up to the task of handling High speed encoders..
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[23:26:41] <andypugh> You would have to be a bit clever with the index-enable idea, as index-enable is bidirectional, and the and2 function output isn't. There is a "tristate" which may help: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man9/tristate_bit.9.html
[23:27:34] <andypugh> field IO isn't up to handling encoder counts, no. That is why I am not suggesting that.
[23:28:12] <andypugh> I am suggesting turning off the index-enable signal when the spindle is in the wrong half-cycle
[23:29:01] <andypugh> 1kHz is fast enough for that, unless the spindle is doing 500rps
[23:29:20] <Connor> I think his can go up to 6000RPM
[23:29:31] <andypugh> No problem then.
[23:29:52] <Connor> OKay, so, use a field I/O for the prox sensor to enable/disable the encoder on the axis.
[23:29:57] <Connor> err.. on the motor spindle.
[23:29:59] <andypugh> Just make sure that the index is somewhere near the middle of the prox area
[23:30:16] <andypugh> No, just the inde-enable signal
[23:30:39] <Connor> yea. that's what I'm calling the prox sensor..
[23:31:03] <Connor> prox sensor on the pulley of the spindle.. half on/ half off.. go into field I/O.
[23:31:18] <Connor> plug the spindle encoder into standard encoder I/O. (including it's index)
[23:31:19] <andypugh> To be honest, I am not sure it is possible. Those bidirectional pins are a nuisance.
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[23:31:41] <Connor> What do you mean bidirectional?
[23:32:17] <andypugh> They go both ways
[23:32:18] <Connor> a high/lo turns it on.. then another high/lo turns it off ?
[23:32:40] <andypugh> No, they can be drivem from either end
[23:33:10] <Connor> okay, short of that.. can I used a AND and mux the normal index ?
[23:33:31] <andypugh> Yes. But not in HAL
[23:33:40] <Connor> why?
[23:34:12] <andypugh> Because the index signal isn't visible in HAL, and nothing in HAL runs fast enough to spot it anyway.
[23:34:23] <Connor> ok
[23:34:51] <Connor> so, that would mean external circuit then...
[23:35:07] <Connor> or custom firmware on the 5i25
[23:36:04] <andypugh> motion.spindle-index-enable is set high by the system when it wants to see a spindle index (threading, for example) and then the encoder module sets the signal low when it sees an index. So the signal is driven from both ends.
[23:36:34] <andypugh> It might not need much of an external circuit.
[23:37:09] <Connor> he'll be doing ridged tapping with it.. not sure if he would try threading with it..
[23:37:24] <andypugh> In fact it might be possible to just wire both the prox and the index to the same pin, and let open-collector logic do the work. But you would _definitely_ want advice from PCW on that.
[23:40:23] <andypugh> pfred1: You appear to have lost a window: http://imagebin.org/248847
[23:40:50] <andypugh> You seem to only have the PyCAM visualisation window, not the actual useful one?
[23:41:50] <pfred1> oh it was under the visualisation window
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[23:57:54] <Connor> do I need M/M cable or M/F for 5i25 -- 7i77 ?
[23:58:02] <Connor> Don't have the hardware in front of me ATM