#linuxcnc | Logs for 2013-02-25

[00:00:57] <L84Supper> http://reprapmagazine.com/
[00:01:44] -!- jdh [jdh!~jdh@miranda.org] has parted #linuxcnc
[00:02:12] <L84Supper> I haven't been focusing on DIY 3d printers
[00:03:04] <roh> ah. thanks
[00:03:18] <roh> do you know if that printer is opensource?
[00:03:30] <L84Supper> that is his plan
[00:03:30] <roh> some components seem to be atleast
[00:03:43] <L84Supper> he's mainly a software dev
[00:03:48] <roh> nice. that helps my motivation al lot ;)
[00:04:03] <roh> we also have some people at our hackerspace working on a completely new slicer
[00:04:13] <roh> and so far it seems incredibly fast
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[00:04:52] <L84Supper> I actually have a factory in China dedicated to manufacturing 3d printers..... just not DIY
[00:05:02] <roh> and since one of us is doing it for his university grades.... there is real progress *g*
[00:05:09] <L84Supper> roh: which hackerspace?
[00:05:10] <roh> L84Supper: nice.. which kind?
[00:05:15] <roh> L84Supper: raumfahrtagentur.org
[00:05:57] <roh> berlin, germany. we are mostly focussed on rapid prototyping, manufacturing etc.
[00:06:01] <L84Supper> roh: new types for manufacturing vs protos
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[00:06:28] <roh> interresting. fdm? stl?
[00:06:33] -!- jdh [jdh!~jdh@miranda.org] has joined #linuxcnc
[00:06:44] <L84Supper> all the above, mostly hybrids
[00:06:53] <L84Supper> just much faster
[00:07:00] -!- Valen [Valen!~Valen@c211-30-129-65.blktn6.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #linuxcnc
[00:07:03] <Valen> bah stupid internets
[00:07:06] <L84Supper> most of the work is in materials
[00:07:10] <Valen> (11:03:45) Valen: so yeah, andypugh we are going to use those 750W motors
[00:07:11] <Valen> (11:03:52) Valen: moar powwwwwwer! lol
[00:07:33] -!- Keknom [Keknom!~monkeky@c-76-125-214-194.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[00:07:36] <roh> we currently have 3 different fdm machines. shapercube, ultimaker, and one which has a folding Z axis which is built into a suitcase
[00:08:08] <L84Supper> roh: I have a DLP SLA in a flightcase :)
[00:08:20] <Valen> roh, we have been thinking of making a piston based filament extruder and a grinder of old parts, any thoughts?
[00:08:22] <roh> nice. self-made?
[00:08:54] <roh> Valen: piston based? so it cannot feed continously?
[00:08:55] <Valen> yeah
[00:09:02] <ReadError> ;)
[00:09:07] <ReadError> echains are almost installed
[00:09:10] <Valen> yes, I didn't want to make a new print head
[00:09:17] <Valen> just something to make filiment
[00:09:44] <roh> i see. i only know of the filabot project making machines to generate filament so far
[00:11:12] <Valen> I'm not feeling too confident about that thing tbh
[00:12:01] <roh> yeah. also i think one usually has only few amounts of recycleable materials around.
[00:12:29] <L84Supper> it depends on the print quality you want to end up with
[00:12:41] <andypugh> Valen: Which ones?
[00:12:47] <Valen> dmm-tech
[00:12:53] <Valen> speaking of I need to send them an email
[00:12:55] <L84Supper> for consistent FDM prints you want really consistent filament
[00:13:22] <Valen> L84Supper: if you mixed the old stuff well and added some virgin prils it should be ok
[00:13:26] <roh> L84Supper: true. but we've learned that its hard to have half-way reliable part precision and also no constantly clogging nozzles
[00:13:54] <andypugh> Valen: I will be interested to see how they work (I don't anticipate any problems, from the spec).
[00:14:08] <L84Supper> we extrude filament with a 2" twin screw extruder
[00:14:11] <roh> also filament is quite cheap compared to the time and thus cost of qualified personell using such machines
[00:14:21] <roh> ;)
[00:14:51] <Tom_itx> L84Supper, straight screw or tapered?
[00:14:52] <Valen> its way over powered and the motor inertia is larger than the "reflected" so it should be good i think?
[00:15:29] <L84Supper> Tom_itx: dual taper, dual zone
[00:15:46] <roh> so from my pov the price of 3d fdm is atm mostly time. not because prints take time, but because it takes time to get good parts from current slicers and machine reliability.
[00:16:31] <L84Supper> we make photopolymers for lower cost than FDM filament
[00:16:44] <L84Supper> but FDM has it's niches
[00:17:09] <L84Supper> but for simple parts DLP SLA is way faster than FDM
[00:17:56] <Valen> I'm thinking of sticking a 3d printing head onto our new mill
[00:18:03] <Valen> 1200x1200x600 build volume ;->
[00:18:28] <Valen> Any suggestions for software (the mill will be running EMC) and a print head?
[00:18:39] <roh> we switched from our inital screw extruder experiments to stepper direct or geared drives for the extruders. shapercube has a big stepper and j-nozzle and a metal gears, ultimaker laser cut wooden gears, and the small suitcase one has a small dia head from a cupcake cnc. ultimaker and the suitcase one do the most precise parts.
[00:18:52] <roh> the shapercube can do abs tho, since it has a heated bed
[00:19:52] <roh> Valen: nice idea. but build volume is enough for a few hours of continous printing with 10x10x10-20x20x20 cm volume
[00:21:05] <roh> L84Supper: you _make_ the photopolymers?
[00:21:14] <L84Supper> Valen: nobody makes a nice off the shelf industrial quality extruder head
[00:21:19] <L84Supper> roh: yes
[00:21:20] <roh> i was currently under the impression that these are difficlt to get/expensive
[00:21:35] <roh> same as the nylon powder stuff.. (>100E for 100g)
[00:22:06] <L84Supper> some are ~$30/Kg in bulk
[00:22:28] <L84Supper> lower if you buy in drum or tanker
[00:22:37] <Valen> I thought they where ~$100/kg for polymer
[00:22:37] <Valen> heh if you want a powder system using parafin wax is super easy to make (if messy)
[00:22:38] <Valen> pipe into molten wax, put shop air across the top of pipe (think carburettor) and job is done
[00:22:47] <Valen> note, big fuel/air hazard
[00:22:51] <Valen> do it inside a box
[00:23:01] <L84Supper> http://bucktownpolymers.com/polymer00.html
[00:23:16] <roh> sure. how is the longtime stability? i guess powder can be used up slower/stored for longer periods in opened up packing units?
[00:23:28] <Connor> okay, I'm looking for some sort of connector that's rated for power around 15 to 20amps, 110v DC. (NOT AC)..
[00:23:48] <L84Supper> powder + binder is also inexpensive
[00:23:48] <Valen> anderson powerpoles?
[00:23:56] <Connor> 2 contacts needed. (positive and negative)
[00:24:09] <Valen> Connor: check anderson powerpoles out
[00:24:16] <L84Supper> difficult for DIY since the inkjet head specs are kept so secret
[00:24:17] <Connor> Hopefully something pretty compact too.. not too much bigger than the CB connectors I've been using for steppers.
[00:24:19] <Valen> not 100% sure on the voltage but they will do the amps
[00:24:19] <roh> powerpoles. the only stuff which can handle such amounts of dc i know
[00:24:40] <Valen> otherwise hit up amphenol
[00:24:58] <L84Supper> FCI, AMP, Molex many more
[00:25:03] <Connor> Ugg.. those aren't bulkhead.
[00:25:08] <roh> we use speakon from neutrik on e-bikes (up to 70V dc, 20-30A)
[00:25:31] <andypugh> Connor: I like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speakon_connector
[00:25:32] <roh> not intended for that, but can handle dirt quite well
[00:25:59] <andypugh> Ah, beaten to the post
[00:26:04] <roh> make sure to buy the original vendor parts. the copies usually have bad plastics and contacts and burn
[00:26:06] <jdh> I use PowerPoles for dive lights and scooters.
[00:26:19] <jdh> Probably not great for a spindle motor connection
[00:26:21] <Connor> This is for my spindle.
[00:26:29] <Connor> Using 14 gauge wire...
[00:26:35] <andypugh> I use the 4-pole speakons for 3-phase 240V. (runs both my spindles)
[00:26:47] <andypugh> Rating is 20A 250V.
[00:26:50] <Connor> motor itself has those standard spade style contacts on it.
[00:27:00] <roh> hmmm.. an o-ring end and something like 2 6-8mm screw connection? ;)
[00:27:33] <Valen> I like the screw on amphenol connectors, IP68 rated
[00:27:35] <andypugh> There are also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powercon
[00:27:37] <Valen> not even that spendy
[00:27:40] <Connor> 14Gauge wire fit in the speakon ?
[00:27:41] <roh> andypugh: ah.. well.. speakon isnt intended for such voltages. they got powercon for that
[00:27:50] <Valen> and they really do look the sexy ;->
[00:27:53] <roh> heh. laggg
[00:28:10] <skunkworks> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/1239027-post203.html
[00:29:00] <andypugh> Yeah, they take 2.5mm 4-core multi-flex (semi-armoured0
[00:29:11] <t12> hum i just obtained an old maxnc-10
[00:29:20] <andypugh> roh: Speakon is rated to 250V. (I don't know why)
[00:29:36] <Valen> skunkworks: thats pretty sexy
[00:29:53] <Valen> I bet you get eleventy billion requests for plans
[00:30:01] <roh> andypugh: well.. ok.. i wouldnt load it with 240 then either. seems too few headroom
[00:30:40] <skunkworks> Valen: not mine
[00:30:45] <andypugh> Eh? if it's rated 250V then it's good to 250V. The manufacturer already puts headroom in.
[00:31:09] <Valen> read the data sheet, see what type of rating it is
[00:31:20] <Valen> if its continuous duty then its ok
[00:31:25] <roh> true
[00:31:27] <Valen> if its a 5 minute max rating then its not
[00:31:30] <L84Supper> measure the leakage, the voltage rating is also based on temp rise of the contacts and insulator/shell
[00:32:12] <roh> i'll do when used in dry indoors
[00:32:12] <andypugh> The contacts are huge in Speakons. A big bar and a multi-finger wiper.
[00:32:15] <Connor> What I freaking hate is everything is rated for AC when your talking that sort of amperage and voltage..
[00:32:36] <Valen> for a connector specifically I wouldn't worry about it *too* much
[00:32:41] <roh> our ebikes get used even when in rain or winter, and then even 48V dc are a real evil.. creeps over multiple mm
[00:32:44] <Valen> if its water proof
[00:33:12] <andypugh> Connor: Why would a connector care about AC or DC? (assuming you don't intend to break the contact live)
[00:33:25] <Connor> So, SpeakOn or PowerCon for my use.. Hooping to have smaller size that I can use a existing bunch out on my panel..
[00:34:21] <andypugh> I asked Neutrik about my intended use (rectified 240V) and the answer was:
[00:34:22] <Valen> andypugh: you do sometimes have to be concerned, things can plate onto things, or other weirdness
[00:34:23] <Connor> andypugh: Does DC @ higher amperage not require larger or more robust contacts than AC ?
[00:34:25] <andypugh> Morning Andy
[00:34:25] <andypugh> Thanks for your email
[00:34:27] <andypugh> The powerCON connector is an AC connector and all its approvals are related to this.
[00:34:28] <andypugh> The thing is with connectors they are used in many different applications for which they were never dreamt of being used, I know speakON connectors being used in diesel engine management design!
[00:34:29] <andypugh> If a connector is part of a system and it passes safety tests then the system becomes approved not the connector!
[00:34:30] <andypugh> All the best and thanks for using our connectors
[00:34:53] <andypugh> <end quote>
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[00:35:50] <andypugh> Rather interestingly, I have a box with a bunch of speakons in it that I pulled out of the skip at work. Possibly the very same bit of equipment he was talking about :-)
[00:36:03] <Valen> I have heard stories of opto isolators rated to 600VAC of isolation being used in military hardware
[00:36:21] <Valen> all of a sudden about a month into service (with production in full swing) they start failing
[00:36:57] <Valen> turns out the AC rating was really AC, they couldn't handle a ~90Vdc offset and died after a month of on time
[00:40:14] <Connor> What I do know is.. My spindle will never hit the 15 or 16 amps for a long time.. it's mostly @ startup.. normally would be around 8-10 amps.
[00:40:16] <L84Supper> AC doesn't have the issues with arcing
[00:40:40] <L84Supper> thats why DC contacts will end up being much larger
[00:41:04] <andypugh> Arcing makes a huge difference to relays. But you probably won't be unplugging the power connector with the spindle running.
[00:41:17] <Connor> Nope. Won't be. :)
[00:41:55] <andypugh> SpeakON / PowerCON are fairly inexpensive, but actually really nice, solid connectors.
[00:41:56] <Connor> I though about just using a odd AC style inline power connector and letting it dangle out of the enclosure.. but would rather have a bulkhead connector.
[00:42:35] <andypugh> Nice thing about PowerCON is that there are both power inlet and power outlet bulkhead versions.
[00:42:37] <Connor> looking at the SpeakON on Ebay now.. I need to know the size of the bulkhead jack..
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[00:43:27] <L84Supper> http://portal.fciconnect.com/Comergent/en/US/adirect/fci?cmd=catProductDetail&showAddButton=true&productID=100800684HEL100LF&_bcs_=-1%08%23%23%08%23%23%08http%3A%2F%2Fportal.fciconnect.com%3A80%2FComergent%2Fen%2FUS%2Fadirect%2Ffci%3Fcmd%3DcatLanding%08%23%23%08true%08%070%08602382%2F603300%2F610411*%08Pwr+TwinBlade+Series%08http%3A%2F%2Fportal.fciconnect.com%3A80%2FComergent%2Fen%2FUS%2Fadirect%2Ffci%3Fcmd%3DcatDisplayStyle%26DispStyle%3DSingl
[00:43:27] <L84Supper> eLevelCategory%26catKey%3D610411%08%23%23%08false%08%070%08602382%2F603300%2F610411%2F610412**%08Pwr+TwinBlade+Cable+Assemblies%08http%3A%2F%2Fportal.fciconnect.com%3A80%2FComergent%2Fen%2FUS%2Fadirect%2Ffci%3Fcmd%3DcatDisplayStyle%26DispStyle%3DSingleLevelCategory%26catKey%3D610412%08%23%23%08false 100A max. per Twin Powered Contact
[00:43:31] <L84Supper> sorry
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[00:44:15] <Connor> looks like 23.6mm sized hole.. ?
[00:44:31] <roh> Connor: http://www.neutrik.us/en-us/speakon/speakon-chassis-connectors/nl4mp
[00:44:32] <L84Supper> http://tinyurl.com/bmvlqby
[00:44:41] <roh> there is cad data there to download
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[00:46:13] <L84Supper> http://tinyurl.com/d8jzsqb PwrBlade® : 2P STB Right Angle Header
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[00:47:28] <Connor> that's the 4pole.. looking to use the 2pole.. size should be the same though right ?
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[00:53:56] <andypugh> Yes, that's what the datasheet I have says.
[00:54:32] <andypugh> I just found that they do an 8-pole speakon. Worth remembering.
[00:55:47] <L84Supper> neutrik, high quality but you also pay for it
[00:56:59] <andypugh> £2.50 for a bulkhead socket seems relatively cheap to me.
[00:57:17] <andypugh> (compared to, say, a Lemo connector)
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[00:58:13] <Connor> Looking on ebay.. getting lots of Knock offs.. :(
[00:59:26] <andypugh> Why eBay? http://uk.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Neutrik/NL4MP/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMvlX3nhDDO4ADUfAUIJI3vk7QYQfCH1vNo=
[01:00:21] <Connor> okay, so SpeakON or PowerCON for DC use ? :)
[01:01:57] <andypugh> They are both the same design (differently keyed) and same rating (30A 250V AC). But PowerCON looks like the more logical choice.
[01:03:05] <L84Supper> for your machine it won't matter, but in the stage and lighting industry they stick to the standards so you don't plug power into sound
[01:03:36] <Connor> PowerCON looks like it has 3 conductors..
[01:04:00] <andypugh> roh: Have you seen http://www.neutrik.us/en-us/speakon/stx-series/ ? IP54 40A version.
[01:04:11] <andypugh> Connor: How many do you need?
[01:04:21] <Connor> I just need 1 for my spindle.
[01:04:31] <Connor> oh. conductors. 2
[01:04:34] <andypugh> I mean, how many terminals?
[01:04:48] <Connor> Positive and Negative.
[01:04:50] <andypugh> So, use PowerCON. (it has an early-contact earth)
[01:04:59] <roh> andypugh: yep, but they are expensive and quite bulky
[01:06:08] <andypugh> For 240V and 7A you can use D-Sub, but nobody ever would :-)
[01:06:24] <pcw_home> not to bulky for 4 pole 30A
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[01:07:30] <Connor> Whats TRUE 1 vs 20 A ?
[01:08:18] <pcw_home> True is live coneect/disconnectable
[01:08:32] <Connor> okay, So I don't need that.
[01:09:11] <andypugh> Connor: TRUE1 is a variant for live breaking (Probably still only AC)
[01:10:09] <Connor> I want the grey PowerCON.. as that's Power OUT.
[01:12:27] <andypugh> I can't find anything that suggest derating connectors for DC use, and Hirose quote 250V AC/DC for the one I just looked at.
[01:14:27] <Connor> Hmm.. Mouser has 2 part numbers.. one with -POS on the end .. and one without..
[01:14:30] <pcw_home> Should make no difference at all RMS AC VS DC current ratings
[01:14:31] <Connor> can't find the difference.
[01:14:41] <andypugh> probably best to look a the neutrik web pages to be sure which is which
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[01:15:10] <Connor> Nothing on the site..
[01:15:18] <pcw_home> probably a 250VAC connector coul be used for ~350VDC
[01:15:45] <andypugh> blue is power in, grey is power out: http://www.neutrik.com/en/audio/powercon/powercon-20-a/
[01:15:54] <Connor> got that part..
[01:16:01] <Connor> http://dilp.netcomponents.com/cgi-bin/neutrik.asp?partnumber1=NAC3FCB
[01:16:09] <Connor> looks like they may have a new part number ?
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[01:17:53] <jdh> I have a 15% off newark code if you order from them.
[01:19:07] <abetusk> is an effective way of avoiding backlash issues to always disengage from the work and then circle around so that you've 'pre-stressed' in the direction you're cutting?
[01:19:20] <abetusk> as in, whenever you change direction in the x or y axis, you circle around to pre-stress?
[01:19:23] <Connor> More expensive that mouser.. probably even with the 15 %
[01:19:32] <andypugh> Plugs that end in A mate with sockets that end with A, and B wirh B. So NAC3CFCB plugs in to NAC3MPB (according to the data sheets)
[01:19:44] <Connor> 8.66 vs 5.90 for the connector
[01:20:16] <andypugh> abetusk: That sort of thing is fairly normal when using manual machines.
[01:20:41] <abetusk> andypugh, I'm considering writing a g-code preprocessing script that does that....this is an effective way to mitigate backlash?
[01:21:20] <andypugh> It addresses _one_ of the problems of backlash.
[01:21:50] <abetusk> a major one?
[01:21:55] <andypugh> But I don't think a script can know what direction the cutting forces will be in, so I think you would have to do it by hand?
[01:23:03] <andypugh> You know that there is a way to put in backlash compensation (which can be mapped to the screw, and bidirectional?)
[01:23:19] <pcw_home> Hmm the switchcraft clones are rated 1500V!
[01:23:23] <abetusk> My thought was that whenever you switch direction, either going from +x to -x or from +y to a -y direction, you do this pre-stressing operation
[01:23:35] <andypugh> Backlash compensation is another partial solution.
[01:23:42] <abetusk> can you describe what backlash compesation is doing and how effective it is?
[01:24:16] <pcw_home> well maybe hipot rather than working rating...
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[01:28:12] <andypugh> abetusk: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/config/ini_config.html#_axis_lt_num_gt_section_a_id_sub_axis_section_a (COMP_FILE)
[01:29:28] <abetusk> Thank you, but I'm more interested in the underlying algorithm
[01:29:54] <abetusk> I just don't understand how you can do any type of meaningful compensation while the bit is engaged with the work...
[01:30:06] <andypugh> No, I am not sure that you can.
[01:30:21] <andypugh> It's a partial solution at best.
[01:30:30] <abetusk> I think the only effective way is to remove the bit from the work, cycle around until you've engaged the other direction
[01:31:03] <abetusk> I would worry about 'walking' when traveling perpendicular to a particular axis, but maybe static friction will save you?
[01:31:23] <andypugh> (though the comp file along with an hour with optical measurement kit can give significant gains in accuracy)
[01:31:53] <abetusk> but what is it doing in the end? How is it compensating?
[01:32:37] <andypugh> It modifies the commanded position.
[01:32:52] <andypugh> (depending on direction of movement)
[01:34:36] <andypugh> So, if you had 1mm backlash, moving left-right to 100mm might go to 100mm, whereas right to left movement might go to 99mm (on the shaft encoder or stepper position)
[01:35:40] <andypugh> It's not a panancea, as you have spotted, as it sort-of assumes that table friction is > cutting forces.
[01:36:26] <andypugh> Time for me to log off and sleep. Night all
[01:36:33] <Valen> nighty night andypugh
[01:36:37] <toastyde1th> the screw jumps by the distance
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[01:36:41] <Valen> I'll let you know when I hear back from dmm
[01:36:43] <Valen> or not
[01:36:44] <Valen> ;-P
[01:37:28] <toastyde1th> inside the nut driving the table, you have a physical distance to move before the nut makes contact with the screw again
[01:37:48] <toastyde1th> so if you want to change directions, you have to get the screw to move that distance before the table can start moving in that direction
[01:39:14] <toastyde1th> it's a tenuous solution at best, because there is loss of accuracy and the potential to break tools and cause a machine crash if the change is undertaken under heavy load
[01:40:59] <abetusk> toastyde1th, that's what I fear, not so much crashes, but loss of accuracy
[01:41:29] <toastyde1th> whether you're using ballscrews or leadscrews, the process for maximal accuracy is the same - you always approach the position from the same direction
[01:41:35] <abetusk> my feeling is a better, albeit potentially slower, operation is to disengage from the work, cycle around until you're sure you've made contact with the other side of the leadscrew, then continue
[01:41:54] <toastyde1th> you generally don't cut in both directions if you're going for accuracy.
[01:42:06] <abetusk> but there are some shapes that are impossible to cut like that
[01:42:13] <toastyde1th> you'll make the cut in the direction the machine likes best (which has to be experimentally determined) and then make all the cuts that direction.
[01:42:27] <toastyde1th> sure, but you have to live with the error at that point.
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[01:43:17] <abetusk> hmm, but it's the same idea of always cutting in the same direction, just applied to lines/curves in the other direction
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[01:43:32] <abetusk> alright, maybe I should just try it to see instead of hypothesizing about it
[01:43:43] <toastyde1th> any time you change direction, one of the axes has to change direction.
[01:44:07] <toastyde1th> and so you introduce a hysteresis error into the operation, as well as changing the direction of cutting load
[01:44:57] <Valen> no software can compensate for backlash
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[01:45:01] <Valen> do it in hardware
[01:45:14] <Valen> more nuts, belvile washers and the like
[01:45:28] <abetusk> Valen, I would like to, but there's only so far you can get. And if I can make up a mil or two in software, I'm going to pursue that option in addition to others
[01:45:35] <toastyde1th> there's only a small number of machines that can compensate backlash without error and they're a small number of machines indeed
[01:46:04] <toastyde1th> also, for the majority of things, you don't realllllllly care about that level of accuracy.
[01:46:10] <abetusk> toastyde1th, if you look at a standard hysteresis curve, it's just two different paths at getting to the same endpoint. All I'm proposing is to follow one path to get to the same endpoint
[01:46:19] <abetusk> for the things I'm doing, I care
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[01:46:27] <abetusk> and it's not really a mil, probably more like 1-5...
[01:46:29] <abetusk> but still
[01:46:38] <Valen> I would submit that getting the accuracy you want in hardware and then not bothering with software is better
[01:47:03] <abetusk> Valen, again, I'm for that, but the cost shoots way up. If I can do it in software, I don't see why I shouldn't also pursue that avenue
[01:47:08] <toastyde1th> abetusk, the problem is that no matter how hard you try, the position of that return path is different for each condition
[01:47:28] <Valen> why would the cost shoot up? its 1 more nut and a spring?
[01:47:31] <toastyde1th> you should pursue correcting in software, but just realize you have to deal with variance that will never go away and will have to be tuned
[01:47:32] <abetusk> toastyde1th, but that's repeat accuracy of the machine...
[01:47:40] <toastyde1th> per cut
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[01:48:56] <abetusk> Valen, I've got the anti-backlash nuts tightened pretty heavily. I fear that tightening them more or introducing something like shims will make it bind
[01:49:07] <abetusk> I don't have an easy way to introduce more nuts or anti-backlash nuts
[01:49:12] <Valen> which part of a spring did you not hear?
[01:49:44] <Valen> our mill with chinese screws and nuts we have less than .001mm backlash, we use glass scales for feedback so any backlash totally kills it
[01:50:06] <Valen> if they are acme screws most anti-backlash nuts do nothing other than make the screw harder to turn
[01:50:53] <Valen> the ones with the nut half cut do nothing much
[01:51:00] <abetusk> It's a 7x7 zen toolworks. I don't believe the leadscrews are acme, but you maybe can see for yourself: http://zentoolworks.com/product_info.php?products_id=78
[01:51:02] <Valen> if the nut is in 2 pieces those are ok
[01:51:13] <abetusk> yeah, it's a 2 piece anti-backlash nut
[01:51:29] <abetusk> http://zentoolworks.com/product_info.php?cPath=15&products_id=77
[01:51:30] <toastyde1th> anti-backlash nuts were developed for climb milling on big as hell horizontal mills
[01:51:39] <Valen> looks like acme to me
[01:51:40] <toastyde1th> not for actually removing backlash on cnc mills
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[01:52:17] <Valen> that should work, its a spring loaded nut
[01:52:21] <toastyde1th> (the split nut type, not the spring loaded)
[01:52:28] <Valen> it'll just add buttloads of friction being acme
[01:52:54] <abetusk> I'm willing to do most anything and if I'm forced to get a better axis, better machine or do some other hackery, then I'll do it
[01:53:06] <toastyde1th> ballscrews will make your problem largely go away.
[01:53:08] <abetusk> but I wanted to at least talk about a software option
[01:53:19] <Valen> http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_50jdGF9As_0/TOlZTrr_IJI/AAAAAAAAAAg/GhR4RfaxndE/s1600/Ball_Screws.jpg is what you want
[01:53:27] <abetusk> yes, they're expensive though. And I'm not sure they can be installed on the machine easily
[01:53:27] <toastyde1th> and will actually behave in contour milling
[01:53:30] <Valen> heres how to do it
[01:53:44] <Valen> make parts and its either a problem or its not
[01:53:58] <Valen> most of the time retrofitting ballscrews isn't too bad
[01:54:16] <Valen> and check this guy out for prices http://www.ebay.com.au/sch/linearmotionbearings2008/m.html
[01:54:40] <Valen> note the "antibacklash" they have still have some backlash to them .01mm or so i believe is common
[01:54:55] <Valen> but its a really simple way of getting it lol
[01:55:29] <toastyde1th> the combination of glass scales instead of rotary encoders + ballscrews is going to get you measurement and control accuracy beyond what the physical bearings of the machine can provide
[01:55:41] <abetusk> ok, well, let me explore this option. If I have to I'll go ballscrew
[01:55:54] <abetusk> ah right, what are glass scales?
[01:56:05] <Valen> total overkill
[01:56:09] <Valen> don't bother lol
[01:56:20] <Valen> <- experience
[01:56:21] <toastyde1th> they're linear encoders - it's a long strip that reads out changes in position
[01:56:38] <toastyde1th> they bolt to the table directly, so you're measuring what you actually care about.
[01:56:49] <Valen> you must have the rotary encoders on your motors too, just glass scales by them selves give you a crappy feedback
[01:57:05] <Valen> also they are expensive
[01:57:22] <abetusk> are they called glass scales because they have a 'scaley' surface to them and are made of glass?
[01:57:57] <Valen> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_encoder
[01:58:20] <abetusk> and speaking of encoders, has anyone experimented with ghetto encoders of the form of putting strips of printed paper on the sides of machines and a detector to read position?
[01:58:24] <toastyde1th> it's a piece of glass with marks etched in it
[01:59:52] <toastyde1th> and it's read a bit like an optical mouse reads a table
[02:00:01] <toastyde1th> except simpler, because the marks are periodic
[02:00:16] <Jymmm> optical mouse uses a camera
[02:00:32] <toastyde1th> yeah, so that was a bad analogy
[02:00:36] <Jymmm> =)
[02:00:45] <Jymmm> it's all good in da hood
[02:00:54] <Valen> either way its a few hundred $ for half a meter of the stuff
[02:01:13] <Jymmm> problem with glass scales is speed
[02:01:27] <Valen> haven't seen that as an issue Jymmm
[02:01:30] <Jymmm> driving miss faisy
[02:01:32] <Valen> using mesa hardware
[02:01:51] <Valen> I would try and get differential encoders next time though
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[02:19:59] <r00t4rd3d> http://i.imgur.com/LbnVzIv.jpg
[02:20:44] <Valen> lol
[02:21:10] <pcw_home> Some linear scale use a camera
[02:21:31] <pcw_home> so not so far off analogy wise
[02:21:43] <jdh> we are upgrading a system at work, ditching the encoders and using laser sensors
[02:22:13] <Valen> jdh: orly?
[02:22:38] <jdh> Valen: it's a pallet delivery system
[02:23:08] <Valen> I take it you are talking CnC part carrying pallets not wooden things and forklifts?
[02:23:13] <jdh> right
[02:23:18] <jdh> well, no
[02:23:46] <jdh> not wooden things. It would pickup/store/deliver whatver you have. In our case, they are uranium pellets
[02:24:34] <Valen> of course they are lol
[02:27:22] <r00t4rd3d> i been looking for a source of uranium
[02:28:03] <jdh> you can contact our commercial dept.
[02:28:34] <Valen> I have often wanted to get some depleted uranium for use in my combat robot
[02:28:35] <r00t4rd3d> you guys stock yellow cake?
[02:28:41] <pcw_home> I once bought some U02 for glaze (had to sign a AEC doco)
[02:28:46] <Valen> purely so I can say its got uranium in it
[02:30:00] <pcw_home> Orange Fiestaware FTW
[02:30:56] <jdh> try unitednuclear
[02:31:39] <R2E4> check north Korea. you could probably get some Uranium cheap from them.
[02:31:51] <Valen> I have a friend who does aircraft maintenance and 747's use DU for counterweights i believe (also some cesnas?) so I was going to hit him up there
[02:36:51] <AR_> do you think this is enough passes?
[02:36:51] <AR_> http://i.imgur.com/HfLpdLJ.jpg
[02:37:18] <jdh> DIY lower?
[02:37:31] <AR_> if i ever get around to it
[02:37:36] <r00t4rd3d> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=Telecommande.Hugh_Potter.CNCPRO
[02:37:48] <r00t4rd3d> i want that for linuxcnc
[02:38:05] <Valen> VNC?
[02:38:12] <Valen> r00t4rd3d: VNC on phone
[02:38:21] <Valen> right price ;->
[02:39:37] <r00t4rd3d> lol
[02:40:34] <r00t4rd3d> cradek said he was going to code us a app
[02:40:59] <Jymmm> You WISH cradek said he was going to code us a app
[02:41:06] <r00t4rd3d> :)
[02:41:15] <r00t4rd3d> he loves android and its powers
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[02:42:35] <r00t4rd3d> a pretty web interface is all I am begging for
[02:42:45] <Jymmm> oh fuck no
[02:43:12] <r00t4rd3d> would be the easiest
[02:43:29] <Jymmm> keystick is the easiest
[02:44:06] <Valen> webUI wouldn't actually be that hard
[02:44:24] <Valen> but i'm not making it ;-P
[02:49:12] <skunkworks> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Rockhopper_Web_Server
[02:52:02] <tjb1> ios > android
[02:55:41] <tjb1> I thought for sure that would get a comment out of r00t4rd3d
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[03:16:23] <ReadError> tjb1
[03:16:28] <tjb1> ReadError:
[03:16:31] <ReadError> got my router goin :)
[03:16:34] <ReadError> but liek
[03:16:51] <ReadError> why the hell do they call the axis with 2 motors the x
[03:16:57] <ReadError> it should be y ?
[03:17:11] <tjb1> Tis X for me
[03:17:16] <tjb1> I always call the long axis X
[03:17:20] <ReadError> why
[03:17:33] <ReadError> if i stand at the front
[03:17:35] <ReadError> its teh x
[03:17:37] <toastyde1th> it's just convention
[03:17:45] <jdh> because he's your mother and he says so
[03:18:18] <tjb1> Because all machines I have every used, X is the longest axis
[03:18:51] <ReadError> what if they are equal?
[03:19:30] <tjb1> Sucks to be you?
[03:19:38] <R2E4> X is usually across gantry. The gantry is usually teh shortest.
[03:20:09] <R2E4> Thats in the router machines I have built and sorked on.
[03:20:18] <R2E4> worked on.
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[03:25:45] <toastyde1th> even that still depends
[03:25:50] -!- jpk has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
[03:26:12] <toastyde1th> big mills almost always have the longest axis called out as x
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[03:26:39] <toastyde1th> if you walk up to a 20 foot by 10 foot Mazak, the 20 foot axis will be x
[03:27:06] <toastyde1th> that convention comes from how old manual machines of that size were thought of and laid out
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[03:27:28] <toastyde1th> but routers and the woodworking industry don't have that kind of institutional assumption build into how they do things
[03:27:34] <toastyde1th> *built
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[03:28:19] <R2E4> Why would it matter anyway? Just you need to know if you have to work on it.
[03:28:53] <toastyde1th> the question was "why is it this way on this machine"
[03:28:58] <toastyde1th> not "does it matter"
[03:30:19] <jdh> X == left/right to me. Anything else would require thought
[03:30:58] <toastyde1th> then most large mills will require thought
[03:30:58] <R2E4> In/OUT allways - Y to me....
[03:31:06] <toastyde1th> set your own mill up however you want
[03:31:48] <toastyde1th> professional machinists don't like it when things change, and so manufacturers set things up how it's always been done because anything else hurts sales
[03:31:55] <jdh> g10 l2 r90
[03:33:03] <R2E4> So which way is the norm? left/right = X ?
[03:33:37] <toastyde1th> it has nothing to do with left right up down
[03:33:45] <toastyde1th> because big machines often are laid on their side
[03:34:11] <R2E4> that would F%^&k me up.....
[03:34:47] <tjb1> Then stand at the other side
[03:34:50] <toastyde1th> the longest axis perpindicular to the spindle is called x, the second perpindicular axis is called y
[03:35:00] <toastyde1th> and the one moving in line with the spindle is z
[03:35:07] <toastyde1th> (which is how you get Z and X on lathes)
[03:36:30] <toastyde1th> that is how almost every large MILLING machine is set up; entry level routers are often made my mom and pop type places and don't have the same conventions
[03:36:34] <tjb1> Anyone know where misumi ships from?
[03:37:12] <toastyde1th> the long/short convention helps when you're dealing with a horizontal milling machine or something similar, because it preserves the direction
[03:44:44] <jdh> I'll have to check out the Haas at a vendor site tomorrow. It has the long axis front/back
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[04:08:18] <skunkworks> R2E4: all run with mesa http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39q6kvrSBSk&feature=share&list=UUHk52YjGT8HryRYmJKSl-lg
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[04:13:44] <R2E4> That Kearney and Trecker is running mesa?
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[04:16:16] <skunkworks> R2E4: yes
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[04:17:25] <skunkworks> R2E4: there are other videos in that channel
[04:19:06] <R2E4> yeah, I checking
[04:21:35] <R2E4> Is it closed loop back to the 5i20 in the pci slot? able to do error correction?
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[04:22:53] <skunkworks> yes
[04:23:45] <skunkworks> (the only way to go...) :)
[04:24:33] <R2E4> Say the amps in my R2E4 Boss 9 Bridgeport are good. What would the cost approx be for the 5i20?? and daughterboard?
[04:25:16] <R2E4> Also if I need to purchase new servo amps........Which ones are suggested to be used with mesa?
[04:25:19] <skunkworks> I would probaby get a 5i25 + the servo daughter board
[04:25:26] <skunkworks> cheaper - around 230ish iirc
[04:26:05] <R2E4> I have 2000.00 for the upgrade so I don't want to skimp if I don't have to.
[04:26:17] <R2E4> so 230 is very doable....:-)
[04:26:31] <skunkworks> that would not be skimping - and is expandable
[04:27:03] <Jymmm> chrome plated bling baby!
[04:27:52] <R2E4> jeez. I think that maxnc is not going to stop everytime...
[04:28:44] <skunkworks> R2E4: most any servo amp will work (that takes +/-10v command)
[04:29:13] <R2E4> thats cool..... 200-300 a pop?
[04:29:18] <skunkworks> I ebay
[04:29:30] <skunkworks> Not bought any new
[04:29:46] <skunkworks> the amps in the k&t are 40A peak
[04:29:47] <R2E4> AH....
[04:29:56] <R2E4> Which machines are yours in those videos?
[04:30:24] <skunkworks> The k&T - what others are there?
[04:30:57] <R2E4> I'm at #52......
[04:31:04] <R2E4> haha
[04:31:53] <R2E4> ah, I was talking about the other videos in the YT channel.
[04:32:14] <Jymmm> It's ONE big ass machine
[04:32:25] <R2E4> yeah, Thats bad ass.
[04:32:28] <skunkworks> oh - that is the linuxcnc development machine the devels have used at the fest in galesberg
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[04:32:44] <Jymmm> skunkworks: Got Panduit?
[04:32:47] <Jymmm> ;)
[04:33:33] <Jymmm> skunkworks: I'm moving up now... have 6ft of 12"x 6" aluminum cable raceway
[04:33:43] <Jymmm> =)
[04:33:43] <skunkworks> heh
[04:33:59] <R2E4> JESUS!!!! I was actually contemplating on spending over 5,000.00 plus tax juat for one board.
[04:34:54] <skunkworks> heh
[04:35:13] <skunkworks> Plus when you are done - you know the machine in and out. Easy to fix
[04:36:54] <skunkworks> I needed a lot of i/o
[04:37:28] <skunkworks> with the 2 5i20 boards - that gave me 96 i/o and I used them all iirc
[04:37:52] <R2E4> on the K and T?
[04:37:59] <skunkworks> yes -
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[04:38:15] <skunkworks> plus 10 analog axis with what I had purchased
[04:38:16] <R2E4> an input and oputput for each tool?
[04:38:45] <skunkworks> No - 15 just for the tool barcode reader
[04:38:57] <skunkworks> lots of hydraulic solinoids
[04:39:17] <skunkworks> and sensors
[04:40:07] <skunkworks> lots of random pictures here
[04:40:09] <skunkworks> http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/conversion/
[04:40:15] <R2E4> How many slots for tools are there?
[04:40:21] <skunkworks> 60
[04:42:10] <R2E4> how long did it take to upgrade that monstor?
[04:42:48] <skunkworks> oh - it took a couple of years - it was a weekend project
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[05:16:36] <Jymmm> could of had it done in a month if you had some panduit!
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[05:21:29] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.cnx-software.com/2013/02/21/coolship-is-a-89-rockchip-rk3066-android-keyboard-desktop-computer/
[05:28:12] <Jymmm> Things like that have been around before.
[05:28:47] <Jymmm> The i7 in a C64 is sorta kinda cool, but not really
[05:38:00] <Gene34> c64 rocked
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[06:08:05] <L84Supper> rockchip tends to violate the GPL with its linux support
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[06:11:49] <Jymmm> L84Supper: how so?
[06:13:25] <L84Supper> binary only drivers, NDA's for vendors that make them not share source
[06:17:17] <L84Supper> http://lists.gpl-violations.org/pipermail/legal/2010-August/002195.html lots more than this, but here's some background
[06:28:38] <Jymmm> ah
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[07:53:21] <mrsun_> http://www.mini-lathe.com/Mini_mill/Reviews/U1/U1.htm neat little machine =)
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[08:00:46] <DJ9DJ> moin
[08:03:27] <Jymmm> mrsun_: 1/2" clearance w/ chuck... ouch
[08:03:33] <mrsun_> :P
[08:04:19] <Jymmm> I sometimes get frustrated because I only have a 12" drill press, ick
[08:04:58] <Jymmm> If you need to drill a hole in something that's 16" x 16" it sucks.
[08:05:31] <Jymmm> ^in the center
[08:06:28] * mrsun_ tried milling another kind of steel yesterday with his x1 ...
[08:06:36] <mrsun_> well it didnt work out so well :(
[08:06:54] <mrsun_> all i need is a 15mm deep, 30mm wide pocket in the piece :/
[08:07:19] <mrsun_> other steel ive milled in it has worked realy well .. but this .. not at all :/
[08:09:08] <mrsun_> vibrations from hell
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[08:40:37] <Jymmm> LOL, I recorded 16s of video from a DV camera and it's 58MB =)
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[09:24:11] <Loetmichel> mornin'
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[09:35:32] <Jymmm> hi
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[09:44:46] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: how goes?
[10:35:08] <Loetmichel> as my grand ma said: bad guys: always fine ;-)
[10:35:31] <Jymmm> heh
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[10:36:10] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: I recorded 16s of video from my DV camera and it's 58MB =)
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[11:19:38] <Loetmichel> hrhr, let me guess: mjpeg?
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[11:28:09] <alex_joni> hey Jymmm
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[13:54:06] <r00t4rd3d> Hmmm, bout to cut a 294 word poem in 2' oak.
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[13:55:32] <r00t4rd3d> Est. Time: 04:22:19
[13:55:36] <r00t4rd3d> :Z
[13:57:04] <r00t4rd3d> 32F
[13:57:04] <r00t4rd3d> Cloudy
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[14:09:44] <R2E4> What is the number of the mesa motor control board?
[14:09:44] <skunkworks> logger[psha],
[14:10:31] <skunkworks> R2E4, what do you mean? servo interface board? and which fpga card are you thinking?
[14:11:16] <R2E4> I am looking at a video of a guy on cnczone(Prefect) and he was talking about his board controlling his spindle.
[14:11:52] <R2E4> Is there a board that connects or mounts to the mesa board that you wire into a vfd for example?
[14:12:56] <R2E4> I am going over the boards that i will need for my conversion. I need to order this week. My machine is coming in this weekend.
[14:20:59] <cncbasher> R2E4: if your vfd uses a pot you can directly connect that to s 7i77
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[14:21:46] <R2E4> I can connect a pot and have seperate 0-10v terminals to control speed.
[14:21:49] <R2E4> cool.
[14:22:30] <cncbasher> just connect the 7i77 directly instead of the pot
[14:22:57] <cncbasher> it realy is eassy
[14:24:03] <R2E4> I get it... thanks. I still have not got the mesa boards nailed down as to what I need for my R2E4 yet.I figured a 5i20 and a 7iXX daughter board would be it.
[14:24:21] <cncbasher> what machine is it ?
[14:24:37] <cncbasher> iv'e forgotten,,,
[14:24:47] <R2E4> Bridgeport series 1 R2E4 Boss 9, with servo's.
[14:25:13] <cncbasher> i'd go for a 5i25 and 7i77
[14:25:31] <skunkworks> How much i/o do you need the 7i77 gives you 48 iirc
[14:25:40] <cncbasher> and if you need more gpio add on the pendant board
[14:25:47] <R2E4> haha, certainly not more than that.
[14:25:50] <cncbasher> that plugs into the 7i77
[14:26:30] <cncbasher> have you seen JT'S files for his bridgeport
[14:26:54] <skunkworks> R2E4, and you could expand it as needed (the 5i25)
[14:30:39] <R2E4> I think I have seen his. He is using 5i20 I think.
[14:31:29] <cncbasher> http://gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/configs/7i77.html
[14:32:13] <cncbasher> 5i25 he is using with 7i77
[14:32:18] <cncbasher> just what you need
[14:32:34] <R2E4> oh, cool.
[14:32:50] <cncbasher> their no difference to what you need
[14:33:08] <R2E4> I may have to get new servo amps.
[14:33:16] <R2E4> Not sure though.
[14:33:23] <cncbasher> are they in working order
[14:33:57] <R2E4> THey said they were when they stored it. They took it off production floor before installing VMC
[14:34:11] <cncbasher> then dont change them
[14:34:29] <cncbasher> it makes the conversion so much easier
[14:34:36] <R2E4> That sounds good to me....hehe
[14:35:14] <cncbasher> all the one's i have done , i have always been able to keep the servo amps
[14:35:35] <cncbasher> with the mesa cards it's a no brainer to change over
[14:35:37] <R2E4> I have my vfd, just have to rewire spindle to 220, its on 480 now, figure out the power split then disconnect existing controller and add the mesa and linuxcnc.
[14:35:43] <R2E4> WHAT A COUNTRY!!!!
[14:36:02] <cncbasher> the only major problem is getting your head around the pinouts
[14:36:35] <R2E4> I can study that, I have been working with comnputers talking to panels for 2o years so I am good at that....
[14:36:45] <cncbasher> but follow jt's and it should be a bit easier
[14:37:27] <R2E4> ok, I have linuxcnc up and running, did 48 hou=r latency test....... I am just ready. How long does it take to get mesa cards?
[14:37:51] <cncbasher> or find a 240 - 3 phase rotary convetor
[14:38:38] <cncbasher> i/m in the uk and usualy have the cards in a week
[14:39:47] <R2E4> Do you purchase from mesanet?\
[14:40:01] <DJ9DJ> welcome to the black mesa transit system! ;)
[14:40:07] <cncbasher> ask JT is he has a wiring diagram for his conversion ,
[14:40:19] <cncbasher> yea i get all mine from mesa
[14:41:06] <cncbasher> dont you mean the black art of configuraton genius
[14:42:14] <cncbasher> R2E4:have you access to the bridgeport manuals ?
[14:42:47] <cncbasher> all the wiring diagrams are their and easy to follow
[14:43:07] <cncbasher> if not they are on the internet , and i have a few here
[14:43:17] <R2E4> yeah, I have all the original manuals.
[14:43:28] <cncbasher> so one way or another , we can get you going
[14:43:29] <R2E4> I have the large blueprints also.
[14:43:36] <cncbasher> arh good
[14:44:17] <cncbasher> should only take you a few days if that to wire it up
[14:44:18] <R2E4> I should start working on misc stuff I will need re: 5vdc power supply?
[14:45:33] <cncbasher> yea fit a seperate 5v power supply
[14:45:50] <cncbasher> the 24v you have already in the cabinet
[14:45:55] <R2E4> Got to run... be back in a bit.
[14:46:02] <R2E4> Thanks,
[14:46:13] <cncbasher> ok
[14:46:15] R2E4 is now known as R2E4_awy
[14:46:22] <R2E4_awy> work calls......
[14:46:28] <R2E4_awy> it is allways getting in the way.
[14:46:31] <Err> I have a really preliminary question about LinuxCNC integration... Has any regular in here ever fitted a large CNC punch press with LinuxCNC?
[14:47:34] <cncbasher> no not fitted one , but i cant see any reason why it cant be done
[14:48:20] <Err> full disclosure - I'm a computer nerd and not a machine tool operator, but I know a bit about the process... I'm trying to help out a friend who has a few Amadas running old Fanuc controllers, and he's concerned (rightly) about their longevity
[14:48:26] <cncbasher> and i'm sure it has by someone over the years
[14:49:36] <Err> I'm just mildly concerned that punch press operation is slightly different, fundamentally, than mills/lathes/etc that I see normally
[14:49:59] <Err> it seems more like laser cutting, except for the "no moving X-Y while Z goes" rule
[14:50:19] <cncbasher> they all use the same interfaces .. and linuxcnc has a plc as well so all can be catered for
[14:50:32] <Err> I suppose I should dig into it more
[14:51:03] <Err> I see that these Mesa boards seem to have VHDL source available; does the LinuxCNC project actually write VHDL to host on the boards, or do they use the factory stock code?
[14:51:25] <cncbasher> would probably just need a kinematics file making perhaps , either way no big deal
[14:51:59] <cncbasher> the vhdl code is uploaded on startup , on most cards
[14:52:10] <cncbasher> except the 5i25
[14:52:25] <cncbasher> which is uploaded into it's eeprom
[14:52:32] <Err> but is it something that the linuxcnc project actually develops?
[14:52:47] <cncbasher> all code is supplied and open
[14:52:55] <cncbasher> yea
[14:53:00] <Err> cool
[14:53:18] <Err> now we're moving closer into the region of things that I actually know about :-)
[14:53:28] <cncbasher> as well as mesa supporting linuxcnc helps
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[14:54:17] <cncbasher> must fly have a visitor , will be back later
[14:54:36] <cncbasher> should be prob 20 min - 30
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[14:57:22] <R2E4_awy> whats the diff between low profile and standard profile? Physical card sizes?
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[14:59:17] <Err> yes, low-profile cards are designed to fit in low-profile slots (slimline case PCs and such)
[15:01:57] <pcw_home> on the 5I25 the only difference is the supplied bracket (card is always low profile)
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[15:26:16] <JesusAlos> hi
[15:27:54] <r00t4rd3d> http://i.imgur.com/jzXlG2T.jpg
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[15:33:45] <Jymmm> r00t4rd3d: where from?
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[15:51:02] <JesusAlos> http://imagebin.org/248071
[15:51:20] <JesusAlos> I need integrate dxf2gcode with linuxcnc
[15:52:04] <JesusAlos> I follow all steps in http://code.google.com/p/dxf2gcode/wiki/Installation
[15:52:24] <JesusAlos> but when open dxf file, appears this error
[15:55:11] <cradek> before I log in to the forum, I see the newest message of a thread at the bottom. after I log in, it's at the top. (and stupidly, for multipage threads, this makes it stick me on the oldest page when I log in.) I don't see anywhere to set my preference. Help?
[15:56:34] <r00t4rd3d> Jymmm, no clue. Reddit..
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[15:57:58] <Jymmm> cradek: it has to be a user pref, check again
[15:58:15] <Jymmm> r00t4rd3d: thanks, still looking where to order one from =)
[15:58:34] <cradek> sure but I can't find user prefs
[15:58:48] <pcw_home> I've noticed that also (login , post something, now the recent post tab take you to somewhere in the past)
[15:59:21] <pcw_home> (i just log out and in again and its fixed)
[16:00:12] <cradek> grr, web forums are so obnoxious
[16:02:32] <Jymmm> cradek: I dont even see where to sign up for the forum =)
[16:02:53] <cradek> well I managed that somehow in the past
[16:04:44] <Jymmm> Ah, found it, off to the left in the sidebar
[16:04:47] <Jymmm> weird
[16:05:41] <Jymmm> WTH?! Only thing missing from the sign up form is DNA sample
[16:06:37] <cradek> Jymmm: bogus spammer signups are a huge pain in the ass for our volunteers...
[16:07:36] <Jymmm> That's only becasue the curent/former forum was hacked/exploited/exposed.
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[16:08:15] <cradek> all web forums are constantly hacked/exploited/exposed
[16:08:50] <cradek> they take constant maintenance
[16:09:59] <Jymmm> Requesting DNA is not gonna change that. It's all bots for the most part, the balance are those places in India where you can get 1000 sign ups for $50
[16:10:22] <cradek> eh
[16:11:35] <Jymmm> r00t4rd3d: Out of stock =(
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[16:20:39] <Jymmm> r00t4rd3d: NSFW Ouch... http://thegirlbehindthecamera.tumblr.com/image/43902278126
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[16:37:47] <tjtr33> L84Supper atennen robots has a batch of ~30 puma 560 size on ebay.
[16:37:48] <tjtr33> they're Ohio robot graveyard, maybe you can get 1 out of the batch.
[16:46:26] <cradek> maybe I should just work on an email->forum gateway
[16:47:45] <skunkworks> cradek, heh
[16:48:02] <skunkworks> is that out there already - you would think so...
[16:50:05] <Jymmm> cradek: Why?
[16:51:08] <R2E4_awy> Jymmm: That link is hilarious.
[16:51:24] <Loetmichel> re @ home
[16:51:35] <Jymmm> R2E4_awy: more like freaky
[16:51:37] <R2E4_awy> A man hits his wife with a car, whose fault is it?
[16:51:55] <R2E4_awy> The mans, he shouldn't be driving in the kitchen....
[16:52:15] <R2E4_awy> Not the photo, the site the photo is on.......
[16:52:45] <Jymmm> R2E4_awy: I meant the girl
[16:53:01] <R2E4_awy> yeah, I would run from that.
[16:53:08] <cradek> https://kunena.uservoice.com/forums/11439-kunena/suggestions/113837-mail-to-forum-ability
[16:53:21] <Err> heh, that Antenen place is really close to me - good to know about
[16:54:22] <Jymmm> R2E4_awy: Yeah, you can trust anyone actually CRAVING a veggie dog
[16:54:46] <tjtr33> I think they're dumping their small robot inventory, the parts drawers go with it
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[16:57:34] <R2E4_awy> She is twisted on that site. One bizarre Biatch!!
[16:57:56] <Jymmm> Ya think?
[16:58:15] <R2E4_awy> wow!
[16:58:23] R2E4_awy is now known as R2E4
[16:58:39] <Jymmm> And those are compltely healed, so she had to of had them done over two years ago or so
[16:58:50] <Jymmm> at 17
[16:59:20] <R2E4> OK, I have to get away from that site......
[16:59:35] <R2E4> I can't stop looking
[16:59:51] <R2E4> Back to mesa....
[17:00:31] <R2E4> 89.00 for the 5i25 and 159.00 for the 7i77....... Where's the catch?
[17:00:55] <skunkworks> cradek, I don't think I have ever used a forum with that functionallity.
[17:01:00] <R2E4> What 1500.00 piece/board am I missing?
[17:01:22] <skunkworks> R2E4, buy the kit - comes with the cable
[17:01:53] <cncbasher> R2E4:what catch ?
[17:02:13] <skunkworks> R2E4 just thinks it is too good to be true
[17:02:17] <cncbasher> haha
[17:02:45] <cncbasher> well we are all using them , so we must all have been bitten
[17:03:00] <R2E4> Well being that I had a quote of to do this and it was 5500.00, then a cheaper Mach3 version that was 2800.00.
[17:03:02] JT-Shop-2 is now known as JT-Shop
[17:03:25] <JT-Shop> cradek: alex_joni fixed the spammer signups with all the checks
[17:03:36] <skunkworks> well - being able to re-use your servo amps is a plus
[17:03:41] <cncbasher> R2E4:yes good call by skunkworks , get the iee1264 cable too
[17:04:06] <skunkworks> (and I think you get a slight discount
[17:04:08] <JT-Shop> get the combo
[17:04:08] <skunkworks> )
[17:04:11] <cncbasher> so work out what length of interface cable to the pc u need
[17:06:46] <R2E4> IS it the AIO cable?
[17:07:05] <R2E4> Is it problematic for a longer cable?
[17:07:26] <R2E4> it's a ribbon cable, 5v...... gotcha....
[17:07:27] <skunkworks> it comes with 6ft
[17:08:04] <R2E4> The kit comes with 6ft cable?
[17:08:15] <skunkworks> yes
[17:08:50] <cncbasher> it is a iee 1284 compliant cable
[17:08:53] <skunkworks> 7I77-5I25 PNG
[17:08:55] <skunkworks> Plug-N-Go Kit 5I25+7I77+IEEE1284 cable 6 ft.
[17:09:06] <cncbasher> arh u got it !
[17:09:09] <cncbasher> haha
[17:10:26] <R2E4> I'm dancing.......I got 1700.00 to play with.
[17:10:54] <cncbasher> cncbasher has a pension plan that needs funding
[17:11:07] <L84Supper> tjtr33: lots of SCARA's on ebay, not sure why people bother with rickety repraps with used SCARA's for <$500
[17:11:36] <skunkworks> L84Supper, then they cannot use the arduino motion contol.. ;)
[17:11:37] <R2E4> I will have to wait, I may need to replace the servo amps if needed though.
[17:11:57] <skunkworks> what are the amps?
[17:12:11] <skunkworks> yoyu could replace them 'as' needed....
[17:12:15] <cncbasher> if the servo amps work then dont change them
[17:12:18] <L84Supper> skunkworks: yeah, hehe, what would they be without broken software?
[17:12:23] <tjtr33> L84Supper, scara motion seems so limited, thats why i always looked for PUMAs ( the acronym not any branding )
[17:13:00] <L84Supper> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Staubli-RX90-6-Axis-Robot-Arm-CS7-Controller-With-Motor-Drives-CablesRX-90-/350721927338?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item51a8a7e8aa
[17:13:06] <R2E4> cncbasher: yeah, I won't if they work. They said it was working =when they took it off the floor..... We will see.
[17:13:17] <Err> R2E4: I share your incredulity with the pricing of the hardware :)
[17:13:22] <L84Supper> RX90's are >$30K new
[17:13:35] <cncbasher> R2E4:if not their usualy easy fixes
[17:13:41] <Err> the entire interface hardware costs less than the bubble memory card for our existing Fanuc controller :-)
[17:13:43] <tjtr33> yeh the staubli is a real puma form, 7K is cheap bu too much for me
[17:13:44] <skunkworks> I would think the puma isn't accurite enough...
[17:13:56] <R2E4> can you put a spindle on the end of that arm?
[17:14:24] <tjtr33> is the an application/constraint for the robot ?
[17:14:40] <L84Supper> max load on the RX90's is ~11kg for 0.2mm repeatability
[17:15:20] <L84Supper> sorry 0.02mm
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[17:16:31] <L84Supper> jetting assemblies / printheads are a few Kg at most
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[17:20:07] <skunkworks> Oh - that arm is pretty
[17:21:17] <tjtr33> triple the payload by smart motion , and increase precision thru the kins and mapping the errors. lotsa uni's publish lotsa studies on both.
[17:21:33] <tjtr33> specifically for puma style
[17:22:02] <L84Supper> yeah, I have had long chats with the Staubli engineers
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[17:23:56] <L84Supper> can I build something that's a better fit with tighter specs? Sure, but I can usually have one of these delivered in a few days
[17:24:31] <Jymmm> L84Supper: a hooker?
[17:25:05] <Jymmm> rent-a-kid?
[17:25:43] <L84Supper> Jymmm: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Staubli-RX90-6-Axis-Robot-Arm-CS7-Controller-With-Motor-Drives-CablesRX-90-/350721927338?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item51a8a7e8aa
[17:27:56] <Jymmm> L84Supper: Well, I guess that's cheaper than a hooker if you're thinking a long term investment.
[17:29:11] <R2E4_LUNCH> yes but a hooker's tolerances is much larger. Alot more slop in them.
[17:29:27] R2E4_LUNCH is now known as R2E4
[17:30:35] <L84Supper> Jymmm: we use them for multi-axis inkjets and additive manufacturing
[17:31:01] <Jymmm> L84Supper: Is that what the kids are calling it these days
[17:31:39] <skunkworks> L84Supper, what kind of speed do you get out of them?
[17:31:41] <L84Supper> not the old 80's tech
[17:32:07] <Jymmm> R2E4: (I have a comeback for that, but ttying to keep this at least an 'R' rating)
[17:32:39] <R2E4> haha
[17:32:56] <JesusAlos> no body have Dxf2gcode integrate with linuxcnc?
[17:33:11] <L84Supper> skunkworks: depends on how you want to measure speed, SLA can be in several mm a minute
[17:33:30] <L84Supper> several liters per hour
[17:33:50] <R2E4> JesusAlos: you mean a cam program?
[17:34:03] <L84Supper> getting within 1/10 the cycle times of injection molding
[17:34:24] <JesusAlos> yes
[17:34:33] <JesusAlos> the famous DXF2Gcode
[17:35:08] <R2E4> good segway.....
[17:35:18] <R2E4> What post processor would I use with linuxcnc?
[17:35:20] <L84Supper> skunkworks: but linear speeds for inkjet are up to several meters per second at >600dpi now
[17:36:09] <L84Supper> some new heads are >10 meters per second at 1200 dpi
[17:36:16] <cncbasher> R2E4:depends on what you draw with . commercial or free etc
[17:36:29] <R2E4> LinuxCNC post processors for Vectric cut2D and cut3D by cncbasher
[17:36:44] <R2E4> I use Aspire
[17:36:51] <cncbasher> vectric comes with emc
[17:37:03] <R2E4> I'll look
[17:37:14] <cncbasher> or at least it's easily changed
[17:37:26] <cncbasher> long time since i used vectric
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[17:38:18] <R2E4> Ah, look at that..... IT has EMC2 post.....
[17:38:31] <R2E4> I'm just waiting for something to fall apart. Its never this easy....
[17:38:32] <cncbasher> their u go
[17:38:37] <cncbasher> haha
[17:39:15] <cncbasher> i use solidworks and camworks or mastercam ... but i'm spoiled
[17:39:43] <R2E4> haha.... I dont have 35,000 bones....
[17:40:05] <cncbasher> must be on special offer
[17:40:21] <R2E4> That was a guess...
[17:41:38] <R2E4> Why does it say "LinuxCNC post processors for Vectric cut2D and cut3D by cncbasher " Did you write the post?
[17:42:21] <cncbasher> yep
[17:42:35] <cncbasher> thats a while back
[17:43:01] <cncbasher> 2009 2010 i'd recon
[17:43:03] <R2E4> ah.... excuse me...
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[18:00:10] <IchGuckLive> hi B)
[18:00:19] <IchGuckLive> ReadError: ?
[18:01:07] <IchGuckLive> Loetmichel: snow hight now 25cm+
[18:01:14] <L84Supper> http://www.optomec.com/downloads/Optomec_AerosolJet_DataSheet.pdf $100K for a fancy airbrush
[18:01:41] <IchGuckLive> its on gold based color
[18:01:56] <IchGuckLive> with dimand trigger
[18:03:00] <Loetmichel> IchGuckLive: so what?
[18:03:36] <IchGuckLive> shuffel alot
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[18:21:32] <skunkworks> R2E4, linuxcnc does take a bit of elbow grease to setup.
[18:21:47] -!- adb [adb!~IonMoldov@] has joined #linuxcnc
[18:21:52] <skunkworks> partly because it is so flexable. But well worth it
[18:22:32] <IchGuckLive> skunkworks: what is he installing a mill?
[18:23:22] <R2E4> Yeah, I've used linux since slakware with pre 1 kernel.
[18:23:46] -!- Cylly [Cylly!cylly@p54B13EF1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[18:23:49] <R2E4> So it wont be a linux issue but more of a linuxcnc app issue..... and I've known to have issues....:-)
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[18:24:18] <R2E4> IchGuckLive: Bridgeport CNC series 1 R2E4 Mill
[18:24:34] <IchGuckLive> nice on 10.04 2.5.0
[18:24:56] <R2E4> Ive got linuxcnc installed allready and did a 48hour latency test
[18:25:01] <R2E4> Boss 9
[18:25:28] <IchGuckLive> oh you got G-code running 48hr
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[18:25:45] <IchGuckLive> R2E4: increse Velocity O.O
[18:26:05] <R2E4> hehe... no, just the latency test. nto gcode running
[18:26:16] <IchGuckLive> so what
[18:26:31] <IchGuckLive> 4glx gears and a Firerfox download an done
[18:26:38] <IchGuckLive> 5min
[18:26:46] <IchGuckLive> and you got the worst
[18:27:00] <R2E4> oh I see, yeah I didnt do that. no gcode running. is it better with gcode running?
[18:27:05] <R2E4> I see.
[18:27:12] <IchGuckLive> no
[18:27:33] <IchGuckLive> latency always alone but with power to the CPU
[18:27:46] <IchGuckLive> as glxgears got the graphics
[18:27:55] <IchGuckLive> firerfox the NET
[18:28:10] <R2E4> okj
[18:28:18] <IchGuckLive> and if you push also a USB sstick in you got the trouble inside
[18:28:34] <IchGuckLive> all clear to go
[18:29:42] <R2E4> getting reay to order the mesa stuff.
[18:29:53] <R2E4> The mill's coming in saturday.
[18:29:58] <IchGuckLive> R2E4: http://oldvan.com/metal/Mill2_1S.jpg is this yours
[18:30:13] <R2E4> no
[18:30:38] <IchGuckLive> did you mount servos
[18:30:54] <R2E4> IT has servos
[18:31:16] <IchGuckLive> oh yeah so 5i25 7i77
[18:31:25] <R2E4> yup.
[18:31:48] <R2E4> Those guys were telling me the kit bt I didnt find it in the price book.
[18:31:57] <IchGuckLive> if you pull the latest from buildbot there is a ready made mashine in it
[18:32:40] <R2E4> whats a buildbot?
[18:33:06] <IchGuckLive> our ppa server -> http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/
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[18:34:39] <IchGuckLive> remove the linuxcnc.org from 3rd party sotware and get ""deb-src http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/ lucid master-rt" in update the packet sources and get linuxcnc
[18:36:12] <R2E4> http://www.irmtl.com/LinuxCNC/BPr2e4.jpg
[18:36:41] <R2E4> thats the one.
[18:37:01] <R2E4> ok, what are we doing there. debian source?
[18:37:09] <IchGuckLive> is there a toolchanger beond the savty switch
[18:37:19] <R2E4> no
[18:37:26] <R2E4> I dont think.
[18:38:02] <IchGuckLive> i think its a semiautomatic 8 tool changer
[18:38:14] <R2E4> I dont think it has a tool changer on it.
[18:39:38] <R2E4> So are you saying, if I upgrade to the deb-src http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/ lucid master-sim, it will have the machine configured in it?
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[18:40:05] <IchGuckLive> :D
[18:41:31] <R2E4> This branch is not always stable! Use with care!
[18:42:02] <IchGuckLive> the 2.5 may also have it now
[18:42:18] <IchGuckLive> it gives you 2.5.x
[18:42:30] <IchGuckLive> so start with this no matter
[18:42:40] <IchGuckLive> you can change all time
[18:43:20] <R2E4> Should I wait till I get my mesa hardware?
[18:43:22] <skunkworks> R2E4, the kit is on the top of page 4 of the price sheet
[18:43:43] <IchGuckLive> R2E4: ofcause wait till mashine is at your hand
[18:44:56] <R2E4> I see em...... did i not tell you I was half blind also?
[18:45:27] <R2E4> 239.99. I might as well get two.
[18:45:31] <IchGuckLive> with both eys shot you can mill a part on linuxcnc O.O B)
[18:45:34] <skunkworks> I have problems with lists also
[18:46:47] <R2E4> shit, I think I may get soem servos and wap put my homemade mach3/stepper cnc router table.
[18:46:58] <JesusAlos> what is the best way to do the security backup of linuxcnc?
[18:47:12] <R2E4> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FadI53SivOg
[18:47:47] <JesusAlos> No say the config folder, I say all linuxcnc and componets relationship
[18:51:13] <skunkworks> R2E4, cool
[18:51:34] <skunkworks> (don't go into linuxcnc expecting it to be exactly like mach. It isn't)
[18:52:55] <skunkworks> of course it is better :)
[18:54:16] <R2E4> I installed it back when I built my machien and couldnt get the slave y stepper working. so I put in mach
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[19:00:55] <R2E4> 4 weeks wait for a 2 hp vfd and 400.00those guys are BS.
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[19:04:25] <L84Supper> an ebay search for a submicron fluid atomized comes back with 0 results, what year is this?
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[19:37:46] <r00t4rd3d> box i finished today http://imgur.com/a/oGCiM
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[19:39:39] <skunkworks> that is cool - but creepy
[19:40:37] <r00t4rd3d> just call me the undertaker
[19:44:05] <mrsun_> nice =)
[19:46:22] <L84Supper> didn't someone here integrate a camera system EMC?
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[19:46:49] <cpresser> L84Supper: psha did. http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Axis_Embed_Video
[19:49:14] <L84Supper> we can extend this to use the camera to align the parts
[19:50:00] <skunkworks> sounds good :)
[19:50:17] <skunkworks> I would love a plugin that would read targets...
[19:50:27] <skunkworks> :)
[19:50:47] <SWPLinux> openCV to the rescue
[19:51:17] <R2E4> Whats he using for a capture card?
[19:51:39] <skunkworks> I think he was just using a usb camera
[19:52:31] <skunkworks> SWPLinux, How is it going?
[19:54:18] <Jymmm> SWPLinux in da house!
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[19:56:44] <Jymmm> SWPLinux: Hadn't hear from you in so long I was about to send out the SAR Chihuahuas to hunt you down!
[19:56:52] <R2E4> ANybody use Dura PULSE vfd's?
[19:59:36] <R2E4> http://www.automationdirect.com/static/specs/gs3drives.pdf
[20:01:55] <andypugh> mhaberler: I have been looking at the Orient HAL component. I wonder if it could usefully have a built-in set of MUX2 style pins to choose between two PID outputs?
[20:02:44] <mhaberler> sure, go ahead - that's why I separated it out from motion so you can do arbitrary stunts in a custom module
[20:02:54] <cncbasher> R2E4: gs3drives ?
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[20:03:45] <L84Supper> andypugh: any thoughts on an fuel injector or micro-nozzle atomizer that produces the smallest size fluid particles (<1um)?
[20:04:37] <cncbasher> R2E4:what about them your question ?
[20:04:53] <andypugh> L84Supper: http://www.f1-2000.co.uk/index.php?f=fuel_injectors :-)
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[20:11:21] <SWPLinux> hi Jymmm. yep, been otherwise occupied lately
[20:11:36] <Jymmm> SWPLinux: I emailed a few times too
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[20:12:11] <SWPLinux> yeah, I saw one of them, but I got it just after my mother died, so I had other things on my mind
[20:12:37] <Jymmm> SWPLinux: condolences. Yeah, I understand the chaos
[20:12:55] <Jymmm> SWPLinux: CHAOS IS MY LIFE =)
[20:13:17] <Jymmm> SWPLinux: There are the MAyhem commercials, maybe I should apply for CHAOS?
[20:13:19] <SWPLinux> heh. entropy man II
[20:13:36] <SWPLinux> (my firend Patrick is the original Entropy Man)
[20:13:56] <Jymmm> heh
[20:14:04] <Jymmm> SWPLinux: You coming out this year?
[20:14:12] -!- R2E4 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
[20:14:41] <SWPLinux> no, I'm straight
[20:15:22] <SWPLinux> I may be out there twice actually, I'm considering going to the nVidia GPU developers conference next month in addition to ESC
[20:15:40] <Jymmm> SWPLinux: Ah ok, cool.
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[20:18:11] <Jymmm> SWPLinux: Give me advanced notice, I cant remember shit anymore =)
[20:18:18] <SWPLinux> heh
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[20:19:34] <SWPLinux> GDC (the nVidia thing) is next month, 17-22 ish, and ESC is end of April, 21-26 ish
[20:19:50] <Jymmm> SWPLinux: ok, cool
[20:20:06] <Jymmm> SWPLinux: where's GSC?
[20:20:10] <Jymmm> GDC
[20:20:18] <SWPLinux> San Jose Convention center
[20:20:22] <SWPLinux> same
[20:20:25] <Jymmm> ok
[20:20:37] <Jymmm> easy enough, I already know the layout =)
[20:24:08] <JesusAlos> JT-Shop: Plase I need a reference to logical instructions to .hal files
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[20:27:13] <R2E4> can I use one of the 6 axis for spindle 0-10v speed and direction control off of a 7i77 board>
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[20:28:28] <skunkworks> yes
[20:29:08] <R2E4> Oh this is coming toegether nicely and well within budget.
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[20:30:47] <R2E4> This is not going to be good. i can tell I wont sleep until thius is done once it gets in......
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[20:32:32] <andypugh> JesusAlos: Have you seen http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/hal/intro.html and http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/hal/basic_hal.html and http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man1/halrun.1.html
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[20:42:22] <JT-Shop> JesusAlos: can you rephrase the question?
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[20:45:31] <JesusAlos> andypugh: Is that I need
[20:45:41] <JesusAlos> Sorry for my English
[20:46:03] <JT-Shop> it's better than my Spanish :)
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[20:56:12] <JT-Shop> dang Rotax 991 has a rev limiter set to 10,000...
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[21:21:23] <mrsun_> hehe, tried mililng steel using a 50mm surface mill (gah i keep forgetting the name of them) in the sieg X1 ... like 20mm wide cut with it .. it doesnt like it :P
[21:21:28] <mrsun_> but i get a mirror finnish :P
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[21:25:04] <Connor> Guys, Question. 5i25 + 7i77, Controlling VFD (In fact 2, 1 for spindle, 1 for a coolant pump)
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[21:28:30] <JT-Shop> your just turning the pump on and off?
[21:28:49] <Connor> Not sure how he wants it yet..
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[21:29:28] <Connor> http://www.driveswarehouse.com/p-2684-nes1-004sb.aspx
[21:29:31] <Connor> for the pump
[21:29:39] <Connor> http://www.driveswarehouse.com/p-2537-wj200-110lf.aspx
[21:29:41] <Connor> for the spindle
[21:30:34] <Connor> okay, yea, for the pump, always in one direction, no variable speed..
[21:36:02] <Connor> I've never done anything with a VFD.. so, I'm a bit lost..
[21:36:48] <JT-Shop> they should have a set of inputs to run the motor on the vfd
[21:37:20] <Connor> okay, the one for the pump has a switch that toggle between voltage input and current input..
[21:37:47] <Connor> and logic terminal a,b for input/output signals for inverter control ?
[21:37:55] <JT-Shop> that sounds like a speed reference not a run input
[21:46:33] <JT-Shop> yuck, I changed to a 15" monitor and now Touchy jumps all over the place when I try and use it :(
[21:46:37] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, gettin any weather?
[21:47:41] <JT-Shop> not yet
[21:47:49] <JT-Shop> getting overcast and cooler
[21:48:04] <Tom_itx> you must be east of the cloud band then
[21:48:13] <Tom_itx> http://www.intellicast.com/National/Radar/Current.aspx?region=default
[21:49:07] <JT-Shop> aye, it is about Van Buren or so it looks like
[21:49:46] <Tom_itx> it's managed to stay above freezing here at least
[21:50:18] <JT-Shop> looks like we will get it from the south
[21:50:51] <JT-Shop> I better take Cocoa out so she can make the plants grow
[21:53:57] <asdfasd> can anyone tell me what can cause unexpecded delay within fist 2-3 minutes, after that working just fine, update manager disabled
[21:55:12] <cradek> you only see one of those per run - subsequent similar errors are not shown
[21:55:54] <asdfasd> I not only see it, it also cause servo controller error, after that working hours with no errors
[21:57:19] <asdfasd> if I left the pc with running emc for 10 minutes, and then start gcode, then no errors
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[22:05:51] <mrsun_> how are lathes in rigidity for milling? :)
[22:06:07] <mrsun_> thinking its not the forces that its used to having :P
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[22:13:26] <JT-Shop> does Touchy have a min size? I just tried the sim on my new touch screen and it jump left and right each time you touch it
[22:14:14] <JT-Shop> ha it must be ubuntu screen res
[22:14:54] <cradek> JT-Shop: futz with the font sizes to make it all fit
[22:15:28] <cradek> oh ha, first have to make your desktop be not weird
[22:15:45] <JT-Shop> ok, I check the screen res and it is correct for the monitor
[22:15:52] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[22:15:55] <JT-Shop> let me try fonts
[22:16:48] <skunkworks> seems milling on a lathe would be challenging.. You would have to make sure you are not milling in such a way to lift the apron
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[22:19:01] <JT-Shop> cradek: that was wierd with the fonts that size you could not touch anything when maximized until all the fonts were set at 12
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[22:20:06] <JT-Shop> this is a 15" touch monitor so I would recommend changing them to 12 for the sample config as it was too weird the other way
[22:25:42] <andypugh> Connor: Can the pump VFD just be set to run at a fixed speed (And why use a VFD anyway, why not just a relay?)
[22:28:10] <andypugh> mrsun_: You can use a lathe as a mill. It works poorly: https://plus.google.com/photos/108164504656404380542/albums/5397760774091143489/5398215426996934626 As you say, the forces are in directons that the lathe bed is not meant for.
[22:28:24] <JT-Shop> might be a 3-phase coolant pump
[22:28:35] <andypugh> So use a 3-pole relay?
[22:29:00] <JT-Shop> only if you have a shop with 3-phase
[22:29:01] <mrsun_> andypugh, yes but using the spindle as the spindle i ment
[22:29:08] <JesusAlos> GN
[22:29:08] <mrsun_> that has an attachment for a millng head :P
[22:29:22] <JT-Shop> did you get hal figured out JesusAlos
[22:29:35] <andypugh> mrsun_: That's my combo machine. There is a reason I am converting a proper machine.
[22:30:06] <andypugh> There are many vertical slides for lathes to allow milling. I doubt that they work any better.
[22:30:18] <JesusAlos> Yes. but I do not get what I need
[22:31:15] <JesusAlos> Is the issue Pause spindle when push pause button of axis
[22:31:30] <mrsun_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAnCbkweftM that kind of setup with locked carriage
[22:31:55] <JesusAlos> I will continue testing
[22:32:08] <JT-Shop> ok, look at halui.is-paused
[22:32:46] <andypugh> Connor: / JT-Shop My coolant pump is three-phase. I control it with a solid-state relay and use a capacitor to make the third leg. Much cheaper than a VFD, perfectly adequate for a suds pump. The capacitor is the blue thing lurking under the tangle of wires: https://plus.google.com/photos/108164504656404380542/albums/5747722155741347649/5753625291552416706
[22:32:50] <JT-Shop> could be a catch 22
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[22:33:32] <JT-Shop> andypugh: aye just like a phase converter, add a cap across the fake line to the real lines
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[22:34:31] <JT-Shop> I had a wire drawing machine with a fractional hp 3 phase that ran on single phase (poor connection) for years before it was discovered
[22:35:00] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.engadget.com/2013/02/25/caterpillar-cat-b15-smartphone-offers-a-taste-of-rugged-jelly-bean/
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[23:03:17] <t12> does the standard linuxcnc ubuntu install disc not allow mdraid configuration?
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[23:04:03] <Jymmm> I hope you're not serious
[23:05:12] <Jymmm> Even if it does, that just seems oh so wrong
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[23:07:02] <cradek> we didn't make any change to the installer, so it will work just like the ubuntu 10.04 desktop cd
[23:07:19] <cradek> I think it's likely you have to use the "alternate" installer to get lvm and/or md
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[23:07:57] <t12> ahh ok
[23:08:07] <t12> i'm used to rhel/centos so i'm not sure if i just didnt notice the options or what
[23:08:19] <t12> whats wrong with mdraid?
[23:08:46] <cradek> usually people like to keep installs for realtime performance as simple as possible
[23:09:06] <t12> i'd think mdraid would be ideal
[23:09:10] <t12> drive failure -> minimal downtime
[23:09:20] <cradek> (I think block level raid is pretty horrible in general, but that's beside the point)
[23:09:22] <t12> except the hassle of moving the bootloader if the MBR disk is the one that failed
[23:10:09] <cradek> a backup copy of ~/linuxcnc and a standby disk already installed would also solve that problem
[23:10:28] <t12> true
[23:10:33] <t12> by block level raid do yo mean
[23:10:42] <t12> any raid that presents itself as a unified device?
[23:11:12] <cradek> any raid that resyncs by copying all blocks of the disk, whether or not they're actually in use
[23:12:04] <Valen> if you make the raid, the generic (gui) installer will install to it
[23:12:15] <Valen> you can do it from the live cd its just a bit manual
[23:12:21] <t12> gotcha
[23:12:44] <Valen> also raid1 just install the bootloader to all disks
[23:12:54] <t12> yeah
[23:12:58] <t12> just always have to remember to do so by hand
[23:13:08] <t12> aka always forget
[23:13:13] <Valen> block level raid is all that there is until you use something like raidz cradek
[23:13:35] <Valen> (as far as i know raidz is the only non-block raid that you can actually use)
[23:13:45] <t12> wait till you have a raidz failure
[23:13:47] <cradek> yeah I use zfs for my server and consider desktop installs ephemeral
[23:13:49] <t12> they're fantasticly awful
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[23:13:57] <t12> we had as best as i can tell
[23:14:00] <Valen> t12: hrm?
[23:14:03] <t12> a 24 tb raid
[23:14:11] <Valen> cradek: zfs in linux?
[23:14:11] <t12> sas expander live reset when a drive went weird
[23:14:22] <cradek> no, freebsd
[23:14:24] <t12> brought all the drives back up, with id's shifted over one
[23:14:31] <cradek> I don't use linux for important servers :-)
[23:14:33] <Valen> freenas or something home grown?
[23:14:40] <t12> caches for the wrong disks then flushed
[23:14:47] <t12> as best as i can tell this is what happened
[23:14:53] <Valen> t12 you cant really blame zfs for that lol
[23:14:57] <t12> i know
[23:15:07] <t12> it took hiring a sun zfs engineer
[23:15:16] <t12> to custom massacre the kernel to get into some kind of ro mode though
[23:15:34] <cradek> no backups?
[23:15:43] <t12> there were not any
[23:15:47] <cradek> :-/
[23:15:53] <t12> (we now have a tape lib)
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[23:15:55] <cradek> hahaha
[23:16:02] <Valen> lol ouch
[23:16:06] <t12> amazingly after 2x of those zfs failures, one successful recoery
[23:16:07] <t12> one loss
[23:16:10] <t12> and 3rd failure beginning
[23:16:18] <t12> i still had to convince them that a tape robot is worth it
[23:16:21] <Valen> I am slowly getting zfs replications to offsite working
[23:16:23] <t12> and yes, they're as much as the disk, sorry guys!
[23:16:35] <Valen> geez its only 24TB just do a live backup
[23:16:47] <Jymmm> t12: Did you use ECC ram?
[23:16:58] <Valen> 's only $1200 in disks ;->
[23:17:30] <t12> well
[23:17:31] <Valen> heck if your feeling fancy, just stick 6x 4Tb disks into a consumer mbo
[23:17:34] <t12> were at around 250tb now
[23:17:57] <Valen> 's only 62.5 4 TB disks ;-P
[23:18:26] <Valen> I wonder if its time you guys started looking at ceph or something along those lines
[23:18:31] <t12> i'm generally against rsync backups
[23:18:39] <t12> nah we just keep buying big nfs boxes
[23:18:42] <t12> its the only real practical way here
[23:18:49] <Valen> zfs snapshots are below rsync,
[23:18:52] <Jymmm> t12: Did you use ECC ram?
[23:19:00] <t12> jymmm: in anything i buy, yes
[23:19:13] <Valen> you can then replicate the snapshot and have that as a point in time
[23:19:16] <Jymmm> t12: and the boxes that are/were running zfs?
[23:19:22] <t12> i believe they were
[23:19:31] <Jymmm> heh, but you dont know =)
[23:19:35] <t12> nope
[23:19:44] <t12> i adoped that abomination with the job
[23:19:55] <t12> i wouldnt have purchased a pile of nexenta machines
[23:20:04] <Jymmm> heh
[23:20:28] <Valen> ecc ram in the host isn't going to stop some drive expander from spazzing out
[23:20:37] <t12> it will maybe prevent random bitflips
[23:20:45] <Jymmm> Valen: it's needed for ZFS
[23:20:47] <t12> which i've yet to see actually happen much in practice
[23:21:04] <Valen> pretty sure ecc isn't required for zfs
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[23:21:30] <Valen> given i have zfs running without it
[23:21:34] <Jymmm> Valen: If you want the reliability that zfs offers it is
[23:21:51] <Jymmm> Sure, you can run w/o ECC
[23:22:13] <Jymmm> Just becasue you can, doens't mean you should.
[23:22:17] <Valen> zfs is no different to any other file system with regards use or not of ecc
[23:22:31] <Jymmm> Valen: wanna bet?
[23:22:32] <t12> sunoracle just needs to pander to the
[23:22:36] <t12> our computers will never break market
[23:22:42] <t12> so you put that requirement bullet point on the paper for cya
[23:22:48] <t12> the same way the zfs people are like
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[23:22:56] <t12> well you cant blame zfs if the underlying hardware fucks up!
[23:23:05] <t12> (except it always does, and zfs's design was to mitigate that
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[23:23:29] <Jymmm> t12: Bet ecc was the last part of that chain
[23:23:31] <Jymmm> but
[23:23:36] <t12> after running into really obscure drive problems in raids
[23:23:42] <t12> i understand what they were shooting for
[23:23:47] <Jymmm> =)
[23:23:48] <t12> mainly that you cant really trust a Hd to give you the right bits back
[23:23:57] <t12> so they needed to layer checksums on top of it
[23:24:11] <t12> i had a random hard drive, as part of a raid6
[23:24:15] <Valen> I'm rather appalled that you can only get to the equivalent of raid6 with it
[23:24:21] <t12> that would flip a specific bit of 64bit writes 1->0 .0000001% of the time
[23:24:30] <t12> since most raid6's do no verify on read
[23:24:37] <Jymmm> t12: 24/7/265 that would add up
[23:24:42] <t12> randomf files would gradually flip
[23:24:47] <Jymmm> 365 even =)
[23:24:47] <t12> it was amazingly hard to reproduce
[23:24:54] <t12> i could reproduce it once a day at 24/7 io load
[23:25:00] <t12> max io load
[23:25:13] <t12> which yeah adds up
[23:25:17] <Jymmm> t12: Stop using those celerons =)
[23:25:24] <t12> that was all enterprise hp gear
[23:25:30] <t12> point being, hd's lie, sometimes
[23:25:31] <Jymmm> even worse =)
[23:25:32] <t12> rarely
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[23:26:15] <Jymmm> KISS... rsync once a day to a 2nd hdd =)
[23:26:25] <Jymmm> 24hr backup =)
[23:26:37] <t12> rsync doesnt save you
[23:26:38] <Jymmm> flip cable, hit power, done
[23:26:48] <t12> all it does is propigte your errors over your backup
[23:26:58] <t12> the only way is piles of tape and lots of drives
[23:27:00] <t12> as far as i can tell
[23:27:06] <ReadError> incremental backups
[23:27:08] <t12> at least modern tape is way fast
[23:27:10] <cradek> so many people do that - and it's much better than nothing - but wildly inadequate for actual important data
[23:27:15] <Jymmm> Yeah cradek is a sick tape freak
[23:27:15] <ReadError> if the md5sum changes it makes a new file
[23:27:31] <t12> yeah you can dervish/timemachine/whatever style it
[23:27:41] <Valen> hourly zfs snapshots replicated to a second PC then daily offsite replication is my setup
[23:28:31] <Valen> I'd like some kind of write only file system, copy on write kinda thing based on zfs but theres nothing mature that I've been able to see
[23:28:59] <t12> there was the plan9 MO filesystem
[23:29:05] <Jymmm> Laser engraved granite tiles of QRCoded data is my backup!
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[23:29:17] <t12> vms versioning filesystem!
[23:29:44] <andypugh> Tom_itx: I beat that code into submission my splitting the G0 lines onto two lines. Not too difficult.
[23:29:49] <Valen> yeah, but its not really off the shelf
[23:29:58] <Valen> I use freenas for my file servers
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[23:30:17] <andypugh> Can't help thinking that a CAM package that swipes the tool through the work isn't earning its keep.
[23:30:31] <t12> time to tend to users!
[23:30:33] <Valen> andypugh: that old rapid to home through the job thing
[23:30:42] <Valen> t12: dd random data over their crap
[23:30:48] <andypugh> Rapid to the next cut, actually.
[23:30:48] <Valen> that'll learn them
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[23:31:05] <Valen> oh i got a quote back from dmm
[23:31:30] <cradek> andypugh: just curious: what cam package?
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[23:32:19] <cradek> ha, the first two instagram pictures out of north korea are both of food
[23:32:26] <cradek> welcome to the modern world, stupid as it is
[23:32:35] <andypugh> Valen: http://imagebin.org/247963
[23:32:41] <Jymmm> cradek: Remember YT in the beginning?
[23:32:50] <andypugh> Every G0 swipes through the profile...
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[23:33:17] <Jymmm> t12: where you at on the planet?
[23:33:24] <Valen> they have food in NK?
[23:33:29] <ReadError> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/25091878/Photo%20Feb%2025%2C%206%2029%2047%20PM.jpg
[23:33:33] <ReadError> \o/
[23:33:50] <Valen> andypugh: I just tried to rotate the view lol
[23:33:50] <cradek> cool!
[23:34:25] <Valen> ReadError: thats some serious duct work, looks like the ISS lol
[23:34:34] <ReadError> lol
[23:34:39] <ReadError> AC/heater ;)
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[23:34:43] <Jymmm> looks liek hydroponics ducting to me
[23:35:22] <Jymmm> ReadError has to pay for all that somehow =)
[23:35:36] <ReadError> ;p
[23:37:06] <Valen> did you guys see that briefcase mill?
[23:37:48] <Valen> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/benchtop_machines/157385-ryans_g0704-post1239027.html#post1239027
[23:39:43] <andypugh> cradek: Not sure what CAM, it's Tom-itx's. Here is a screen shot: http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/emc/andyp/inner.jpg
[23:39:58] <AR_> do me
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[23:56:25] <Jymmm> Valen: It's "cute"
[23:56:40] <Valen> good for a first try at least
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