#linuxcnc | Logs for 2013-02-10

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[00:01:36] <spiderdijon> it does stop - the homing does work, im just wondering why changing the acceleration is effecting the behavior after the switches are triggered. Same homing velocity, lower acc crashes, higher does not.
[00:03:07] <cradek> well if the acceleration is lower, you have to move farther to come to a stop
[00:03:14] <tjtr33> just thinking out loud... if the homing method requires reversal, then it must decell to 0, the reverse, and IF the accel requires a huge distance, then i slide way past the switch looking back at the second baseman :)
[00:03:21] <cradek> I don't see that this has anything to do with homing at all
[00:03:26] <spiderdijon> yes put the acc is software controlled in this case right?
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[00:04:01] <spiderdijon> the physical acc of the machine is fixed, I'm only changing the value in the ini
[00:04:31] <tjtr33> pyscial acc is not whats known to the control system, the specified acc is
[00:04:37] <cradek> the stepgen manpage says if enable is false, no steps are generated. I would check with halscope to determine whether this is really true
[00:04:55] <spiderdijon> good idea, i will look at that
[00:05:03] <cradek> if you abruptly stop the steps, you WILL lose machine position
[00:05:25] <spiderdijon> yes that makes sense
[00:05:28] <cradek> that means you will have to rehome, and since you don't have encoders and index, you may not get exactly the same origin
[00:05:39] <cradek> you must pick your poison
[00:05:58] <spiderdijon> ok that clears it up for me, thanks for your time
[00:06:04] <cradek> it would probably be better to adjust your switches so you have room for a controlled stop at whatever acceleration setting you end up using
[00:06:38] <cradek> it is arguable whether turning off stepgen.enable should abruptly stop stepping, or come to a controlled stop
[00:07:05] <cradek> you could use halscope to see which of those it is doing, and file a bug report if you think it's the wrong one, being aware the whole time that half of the people will disagree with you :-)
[00:07:06] <spiderdijon> it was the reasoning for following a profile on the limit trigger which was getting me, but ofc it needs to use it to keep track of position
[00:07:24] <spiderdijon> i'll modify the switches to support the lower acc
[00:07:33] <cradek> yes if you want to maintain position you have no choice but to decel in a controlled way
[00:07:40] <cradek> I bet that's the best answer
[00:07:54] <spiderdijon> yeah seems so, thanks for helping
[00:07:57] <cradek> once you're homed you will have soft limits in effect and you should never hit the switches anyway
[00:09:16] <cradek> (I can see an argument for stepgen stopping abruptly: if you ever hit the limit switch on a correctly configured machine, you have ALREADY lost position, losing it again is no sacrifice)
[00:09:36] <spiderdijon> yes that was my original thinking
[00:10:00] <cradek> I'm not sure how I feel but I can see it's pretty debatable either way
[00:10:18] <tjtr33> "<spiderdijon> about 10mm from when in is triggered to the chassis" the accel was low enuf to allow covering 10mm distance?
[00:10:54] <cradek> I agree, if so, that seems like an incorrectly-low accel setting
[00:11:08] <tjtr33> dang low, slower than me :)
[00:11:20] <spiderdijon> that does seem wrong actually...
[00:11:30] <spiderdijon> ah
[00:11:40] <cradek> unnecessarily low accel settings cause bad performance in all sorts of different ways. be sure you have it as high as possible.
[00:12:33] <spiderdijon> the far limit switch is a bit bent out of place from the crashing, (it's the one it homes to) so it is less distance, makes more sense now :D
[00:13:05] <spiderdijon> either way I'm sorted for what I need to change
[00:15:13] <tjtr33> why are you varying the accel? measure it and record it a bit conservatively in the ini. no guessing allowed :)
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[03:43:39] <gene77> silly Q: I have the bearing adjustment nut quite tight on this chinese C7 screw, and my carriage is snugged up to needing about 100 pounds to move it. It is exhibiting about 0.006" of end play despite the tight preload. Bad bearings? Stiff carraige?
[03:46:08] <gene77> I put a dial on the far end too, its 0.0045" there, probably on both ends because the drive end was a finger dial & wasn't dead square.
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[03:48:35] <jdh> slop in the screw/bearing, or in the nut/screw?
[03:50:56] <gene77> I am reading the end play of the screw in the bearings
[03:51:37] <L84Supper> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/theflexiscaleco/3d-printed-kits-of-the-ffestiniog-englands-from-la
[03:51:39] <jdh> pre-made bearing block?
[03:51:59] <L84Supper> working models would be nicer, but it's a nice start
[03:52:08] <gene77> yes, came with the screw
[03:53:15] <gene77> I took 0.140" off the bottom of it to put it pretty close to the old ones position, and lapped it flat again
[03:53:21] <L84Supper> lots of those blocks come with just standard ball bearings, not thrust or angular
[03:53:28] <gene77> one both blocks
[03:53:35] <gene77> oneboth blocks
[03:53:41] <gene77> on both blocks
[03:54:06] <gene77> should I yell at the vendor?
[03:54:21] <jdh> captured on both ends?
[03:54:54] <L84Supper> I've gotten bearings from there that had *detents* in them
[03:54:54] <gene77> no, just the driven end
[03:55:43] <gene77> tail end floats in housing
[03:55:54] <jdh> I'd pull it out and check that the nut->bearing->block is acutally touching
[03:57:32] <gene77> That will be fun, but do-able tomorrow, The load nut seems to be coming up solidly
[03:58:00] <jdh> then where is the slop
[03:59:21] <gene77> still there whn the nut is tight
[04:00:11] <gene77> and I just backed the nut off about 1/16", no chagne?
[04:01:07] <jdh> magic!
[04:01:26] <jdh> tap it with a hammer.
[04:03:11] <gene77> solid, can't drive it back thru the bearings with a reasonable tap
[04:04:26] <jdh> sounds like maybe the bearing isn't seated on the screw?
[04:05:20] <jdh> guess if it is bound, you wouldn't know and it probably wouldn't matter.
[04:05:33] <gene77> Something like that, I got out a rod and moved it about 40 thou, but the play is the same
[04:05:50] <jdh> so the bearing is moving in the block?
[04:08:48] <gene77> Dunno, I just pulled the nut up tight again, and pulled the screw back to its original position again, but the play is still there, so either there is sleeve between the bearing hubs that tool long
[04:09:37] <gene77> or something fubar. It doesn't come tight like its crushing bearings, but come solid when its tight
[04:10:06] <gene77> Dunno, I just pulled the nut up tight again, and pulled the screw back to its original position again, but the play is still there, so either there is sleeve between the bearing hubs that too long
[04:10:45] <gene77> So I guess I'll take it apart tomorrow and see what I can learn.
[04:11:15] <jdh> that's half the fun.
[04:13:22] <gene77> Yup. Looks like I can take it apart without dismounting. The major ajdjustment when putting it back together is in the taper hub I made for ther drive gear, I have to adjust the draw bolts for minimum runout.
[04:14:31] <gene77> Thanks for the shoulder to cry on. ;-)
[04:15:21] <jdh> I had to add an extra washer to mine due to a slight mismeasure.
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[04:35:17] <gene77> That looks like the cure here too, there is no spacer between the bearing inners
[04:41:47] <gene77> They are axial load balls, but I'm not impressed with the finish. Where can I get a 12 bore, 14mm OD washer, .15 mm thick?
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[04:49:21] <jdh> mcmaster
[04:50:16] <jdh> they are only thrust bearings?
[04:53:35] <gene77> the races are at an angle, but not a large one, centers look the same on both sides, the outers are 28mm od, 23.75 on one face for id, and 25.7 on the opposite side
[04:56:53] <gene77> If I can shim the inners .15mm, that would about do it. I'll see if the local auto parts dweebs still know what shim stock is these days tomorrow. .15mm or 5 thou, I'm not that fussy. :)
[04:58:20] <gene77> Worst part is probably having to revive my edm lashup to cut it. :(
[04:58:23] <jdh> angular contact bearings
[04:59:01] <gene77> I guess thats what you'd call them.
[05:00:26] <gene77> Midnight, no beauty sleep tonight, and at 78, I could sure use some. :) Good night & thanks
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[05:11:41] <r00t4rd3d> the before picture - http://i.imgur.com/2Phhw6h.jpg
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[07:32:39] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: http://tastykitchen.com/recipes/soups/simple-hearty-white-chili/?print=1/#size3x5
[07:36:22] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: http://thepioneerwoman.com/cooking/2010/01/simple-hearty-white-chili/
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[07:47:15] <Jymmm> DJ9DJ: MORNIN
[07:47:25] <DJ9DJ> moin
[07:48:20] <DJ9DJ> hi Jymmm :D
[07:48:25] <Jymmm> hi
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[08:16:27] <Loetmichel> mornin'
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[12:19:37] <Loetmichel> *cleaning my mini CNC mill* ... WHAT a MESS! -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14034
[12:20:31] <Loetmichel> ... and now i know why the x axis has somtimes probnlems with ref move... *searching fpr a identicval microswitch* ... -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14037
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[12:57:23] <jthornton> isn't that a normal microswitch?
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[13:07:07] <archivist> normal switches are broken?
[13:11:07] <jthornton> for me they are
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[13:26:00] <Loetmichel> jthornton: it is
[13:26:40] <Loetmichel> but i have only one size smaller in numbers. had to search a while for a normal sized one :-)
[13:33:26] <ReadError> in yalls controller boxes, do you use 120/220v fans?
[13:33:30] <ReadError> or a DC inverter ?
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[13:35:45] <cpresser> ReadError: i use 220V fans
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[13:49:42] <ReadError> yea i need to get 4
[13:49:53] <ReadError> ill have 2 boxes, so 1 intake, exhaust on each
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[13:59:11] <r00t4rd3d> 12v
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[15:39:53] <fragalot> SUCCESS
[15:40:11] <fragalot> I managed to fix my mill's bow issue on milled surfaces
[15:41:03] <fragalot> turns out it was because the X rods being held in place with bolts & a lock washer
[15:41:09] <fragalot> removed the lock washer, problem solved.
[15:42:56] <fragalot> table is still bowed though, and now it also appears to have issues with missing steps, but i'm blaming the super shitty chinese driver for that
[15:43:15] <r00t4rd3d> tb6560?
[15:44:24] <archivist> if your shafts are not parallel it will be stiff and need more force causing missed steps
[15:45:19] <fragalot> archivist: it's more due to heat issues
[15:45:40] <fragalot> I can move the carriage by blowing on it, so that's certainly notit
[15:45:52] <archivist> if it was not happening before...why blame heat
[15:46:07] <Tecan> http://www.richsoil.com/rocket-stove-mass-heater.jsp
[15:46:21] <fragalot> archivist: because i've never ran it this long because it never worked right
[15:46:37] <fragalot> this long being over 10 minutes continuously
[15:47:04] <fragalot> r00t4rd3d: dno, came in an unmarked aluminium box
[15:47:09] <archivist> add fan/heatsink to stepper drivers
[15:47:13] <fragalot> archivist: the missing steps also happen in random locations
[15:47:17] <fragalot> archivist: Aye
[15:47:48] <archivist> also reduce top speed and acceleration rate a bit
[15:48:33] <fragalot> did that
[15:49:02] <fragalot> waiting for it to cool down & see if i could turn down the current a little to help with heat
[15:49:24] <archivist> any alignment issues stepper to screw
[15:49:41] <archivist> or screw stiffness
[15:49:58] <fragalot> the screw is supported on both ends, later today I had planned to take the support bearing out
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[16:03:04] <r00t4rd3d> you have a pic of your controller?
[16:03:26] <r00t4rd3d> how can you set it up right if you dont know what it is?
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[16:03:59] <fragalot> r00t4rd3d: *shrug* it came with the machine & mostly worked
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[16:04:11] <ReadError> r00t4rd3d
[16:04:12] <ReadError> http://www.reddit.com/r/pimpcats
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[16:10:24] <fragalot> r00t4rd3d: LN298N's - I should be able to heatsink them nicely..
[16:10:57] <fragalot> or I could just use my own controller instead.. bit bulkier compared to this one, but much more potent
[16:12:31] <mrsun> or buy a better controler :P
[16:16:05] <fragalot> mrsun: yea :P
[16:16:24] <mrsun> those only go half step dont they ?
[16:16:36] <mrsun> or the LN298 isnt that jus the h-bridge ?
[16:16:47] <fragalot> that's just the H bridge
[16:17:00] <archivist> needs the 297 too
[16:17:02] <mrsun> paired with 297
[16:17:06] <mrsun> it does half step right ?
[16:18:04] <archivist> yes
[16:18:40] <archivist> just happened to be cataloguing the SGS databook today so on the pile on the desk
[16:18:46] <fragalot> I do have a pololu board laying about but using that one for my printer and I don't really want to cannibalize it :P
[16:19:02] <mrsun> but isnt the L298 "stackable" so you can make them handle more current? :)
[16:19:08] <mrsun> alas, less heat :P
[16:19:42] <fragalot> mrsun: *or* I could just lob on a small heatsink
[16:19:46] <fragalot> (atm they have none in the chinese controler)
[16:19:49] <mrsun> :P
[16:19:58] <mrsun> could do some good :P
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[16:22:22] <r00t4rd3d> ReadError, http://i.imgur.com/cLZBFya.gif
[16:24:37] <fragalot> traceroute -m 60
[16:24:38] <fragalot> lol'd
[16:24:40] <Jymmm> Tecan: https://78462f86-a-c82f1096-s-sites.googlegroups.com/a/ernieanderica.info/www/rocketmassheaterpermitting/RocketHeater6in20000.jpg?attachauth=ANoY7cp8TZZepjdOOcQZWI2rLSR-ROSDii_i2m0_ySLOiOGdx78oywLcPR_k1YQqBfp4wtVtk_St7vD2_P47sUSQL3_Rx6eXNgLiRpuyKpEPUV8y_cas3rShpIzCLp8LsPQ4YySRcPXD6IjRKM6gg6xQYh60l5XRPZyuPa9SaUiCxSmmXPqP_6o3Qs6vhaF09k6sbc6c8rmz6gBpNEH0WqiVW0p2_SXr8YYmevj5HtkfvR1kRQ6sanFiFCWB_Oa6KPnMNGkUhms1&attredirects=0
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[16:25:08] <Jymmm> Tecan: 7000 LBS ?!?!?!
[16:25:27] <fragalot> Jymmm: it's supposed to be heavy
[16:25:27] <fragalot> :P
[16:25:35] <fragalot> that's the whole idea behind the term "mass"
[16:25:47] <r00t4rd3d> I am about to tear down this brand new engine and match/port/polish all the things http://i.imgur.com/2Phhw6h.jpg
[16:25:50] <fragalot> That said, I love the simplicity, yet efficiency of a rocket stove
[16:26:00] <Jymmm> fragalot: My SUV is "mass", but still dont weight THAT much
[16:26:01] <fragalot> r00t4rd3d: enjoy!: :)
[16:26:05] <r00t4rd3d> clean the fins up also
[16:26:10] <fragalot> Jymmm: your SUV isn't made out of solid cob
[16:26:21] <Jymmm> fragalot: Not sure about that
[16:26:30] <fragalot> lol
[16:27:12] <fragalot> Jymmm: that said it's only as heavy as you want it
[16:27:25] <fragalot> the reason for the mass is so that it keeps giving off heat for a long period of time after it's run out of wood
[16:27:33] <fragalot> if you want instant response, don't use any cob
[16:27:43] <Jymmm> Tecan: http://www.ernieanderica.info/rocketmassheaterpermitting
[16:27:47] <fragalot> instant efficient heat, but once you run out of wood, it immediately stops heating
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[16:28:13] <Tecan> no
[16:28:17] <Jymmm> fragalot: No
[16:28:36] <Jymmm> fragalot: 12+ hours later it's still radiating heat
[16:28:48] <fragalot> Jymmm: IF you use the cob to add mass, yes
[16:29:03] <fragalot> if you don't, and only use the pipes, then no.
[16:29:28] <Jymmm> fragalot: Go steal a controller already!
[16:29:38] <fragalot> xD
[16:30:44] <Jymmm> Tecan: Wood stove pellets
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[16:31:46] <Tecan> yes that would work good too but it might be too dense to let air through you'd have to use a air compressor :)
[16:32:08] <Jymmm> slow fed the pellets
[16:32:35] <Tom_itx> pellet stoves aren't that cost effective are they?
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[16:32:43] <Tom_itx> unless you're getting pellets for nothing
[16:32:46] <Jymmm> or a narrow pellet feed and 3x larger air feed with dampener
[16:33:04] <Tom_itx> $3-5 a bag costs more than natural gas doesn't it?
[16:33:19] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: they burn very sowly
[16:33:32] <Tom_itx> half bag a day?
[16:33:33] <Jymmm> almost 100% effeciant
[16:33:49] <Tom_itx> boils down to the bottom cost line
[16:34:16] <fragalot> I quite like gas for several very simple reasons
[16:34:20] <fragalot> a) no storage
[16:34:21] <Jymmm> Well, the biggest pellet producre I know of is in AZ
[16:34:21] <fragalot> b) no mess
[16:34:28] <Tecan> thats the whole idea of the rocket stove it burns more of the wood
[16:34:31] <fragalot> c) it's just there when you want it
[16:34:41] <fragalot> Tecan: it also burns the wood gas
[16:34:44] <fragalot> which is the important bit
[16:35:03] <Jymmm> fragalot: he knows that, now go steal a controller
[16:35:11] <fragalot> I have
[16:35:19] <Jymmm> fragalot: get caught this time
[16:35:23] <fragalot> :<
[16:36:21] <Jymmm> Tecan: I bet you you extended the intake/exhaust, and have them both on the same side, might get better effeciancy
[16:37:21] <archivist> as heat rises how are you supposed to light it and start it running, I see no exhaust fan
[16:37:22] <fragalot> why would the intake need to be extended?
[16:37:52] <Jymmm> fragalot: Just turn yourself into the police already
[16:37:55] <fragalot> archivist: you shove some paper down deep to get the flow going & build up your fire
[16:38:20] <Tecan> theres videos on the link i posted
[16:38:25] <Jymmm> archivist: convection
[16:38:27] <Tecan> lots of them
[16:38:40] <L84Supper> isn't the final exhaust temp supposed to be as close to the input temp as possible for maximum efficiency?
[16:38:41] <fragalot> Jymmm: I've built several rocket stoves - the intake length isn't as important as the exhaust one
[16:39:00] <Jymmm> fragalot: Go rob a bank
[16:39:02] <Tecan> fragalot have pics ?
[16:39:03] <fragalot> L84Supper: Yes.
[16:39:31] <fragalot> Tecan: not really, most of it was made out of scraps & rebuilt several times before I decided that gas was so much easier than hauling wood around, and a lot less messy :P
[16:40:05] <fragalot> I really should document the things i do a bit more :/
[16:40:32] <Tecan> where did you first readabout it ?
[16:40:53] <fragalot> stumbled on it when I was researching woodgas stoves
[16:42:03] <Tecan> ever seen a stirling engine made out of 2 45 gal drums ?
[16:42:30] <fragalot> Tecan: where the hell did you find that?
[16:42:31] <fragalot> :D
[16:43:02] <Tecan> never seen one always wanted to make one
[16:43:09] <Jymmm> fragalot: He saw it at a bank he robbed, you should too
[16:43:34] <fragalot> I started working on making a flame licker engine, then my friends' lathe broke and I've never really continued since then
[16:43:36] <L84Supper> http://phys.org/news/2013-02-fujifilm-thermoelectric-material.html they don't have a real spec (so it's BS)
[16:43:37] <fragalot> :/
[16:44:12] <fragalot> Jymmm: i've had plenty of opportunity to do so in the past, but i'm so rich that I don't see why I would bother
[16:44:30] <L84Supper> are there any natural gas powered stirling engines for sale?
[16:44:42] <Jymmm> fragalot: So you're a cheap bastard and bought a crappy controller instead?
[16:45:04] <fragalot> L84Supper: stirling engine is powered by any gas really - it's based on thermal expansion, not combustion
[16:45:18] <fragalot> Jymmm: I wasn't rich back then
[16:45:22] <Jymmm> lol
[16:45:26] <L84Supper> yes, I know, I'd just like to buy one ~5KW
[16:45:40] <fragalot> L84Supper: the specs they give are for a 234151 m² sheet
[16:45:47] <fragalot> L84Supper: 5kW stirling engine eh
[16:45:48] <fragalot> good luck
[16:45:49] <fragalot> :P
[16:46:56] <L84Supper> they are always a few months away
[16:48:15] <fragalot> L84Supper: quote from their source site: "The exhibited thermoelectric converter module has a power generation capacity of several milliwatts and is capable of generating electricity with a temperature difference of 1°C, the company said. "
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[16:48:25] <fragalot> note the difference between mW and MW
[16:48:32] <L84Supper> did Dean Kamen have an engine that ran on just about any garbage you could burn?
[16:48:32] <Jymmm> 2
[16:48:58] <fragalot> hell not even that, the other site said kW
[16:49:04] <fragalot> how do you get things that wrong
[16:49:25] <Jymmm> fragalot: you rob a mobster
[16:49:38] <fragalot> Jymmm: i'm too much of a pansy to try and do that
[16:49:44] <Jymmm> heh
[16:50:02] <L84Supper> http://alfin2100.blogspot.com/2009/05/dean-kamens-magic-stirling-engine.html
[16:50:27] <FinboySlick> L84Supper: There's some success with plasma gasification. That's not a typical garage setup though.
[16:51:18] <fragalot> stirling engines do run on anything that produce heat, but what they neglect to mention is that they're terribly inefficient
[16:51:19] <Jymmm> Tecan: That's interesting. I'd like to see a smaller model (in a controlled test room, shed?) to be able to test different configs. Like lego rocket mass heater
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[16:51:26] <fragalot> you're much better off with a small steam engine
[16:51:39] <FinboySlick> I think they just (or are about to) completed a project in florida. Japan has been doing it for a while.
[16:52:33] <L84Supper> whats the highest efficiency natural gas electric generator?
[16:53:17] <Jymmm> 8hours per gallon (gasoline) == Honda EU2000i
[16:53:28] <Jymmm> Can be setup as Tri-fuel
[16:54:01] <Jymmm> at 50% iirc
[16:54:54] <L84Supper> 8hours per gallon at what output load continuous?
[16:55:28] <Jymmm> Well, at 100% it's 2KW, so at 50% I'd say that would be 1KW
[16:55:52] <Jymmm> or slightly less
[16:56:15] <L84Supper> 8hours per gallon with a continuous 2000W load
[16:56:24] <Jymmm> I said at 50%
[16:56:36] <L84Supper> 1000w load then
[16:57:14] <L84Supper> 8KW/H per gallon
[16:57:36] <L84Supper> sorry 8kwh per gallon
[16:57:56] <Jymmm> Google it, there are real life test results otut there
[16:57:59] <fragalot> L84Supper: This is the one you want: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9i8_CFZtfo
[16:58:07] <L84Supper> yeah, in the middle of that
[16:58:24] <fragalot> xD
[17:02:01] <Jymmm> L84Supper: http://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/24022161/gotomsg/24963199.cfm
[17:02:55] <fragalot> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALFYm_6IlX8 this is literally the coolest lightbulb i've ever seen
[17:03:58] <Jymmm> fragalot: lick it!
[17:05:38] <L84Supper> gas here is $3.70/gal, so $0.46 per kwh
[17:05:56] <Jymmm> Tecan: Now, be sure to incorporate an array of T-Coolers into your rocket heater =)
[17:06:01] <Loetmichel> sooo, done, machine clean again and optimal adjusted... side effect: G0 is now 2100mm/min instead of 1500 mm/min ;-) -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14040
[17:06:10] <fragalot> Jymmm: :D
[17:06:31] <fragalot> Jymmm: been zapped with 60kV before, and that day I learned that I never, ever, want that to happen again.
[17:06:39] <Loetmichel> now i will make some new covers for the x, y and z linear ways and then do some work for the company. ;-)
[17:06:52] <Jymmm> fragalot: Ya think???
[17:07:48] <Jymmm> fragalot: Just goes to show that you shouldn't be sticking your tounge into places
[17:08:01] <L84Supper> http://jalopnik.com/dean-kamen-stirling-engine/ 4 years ago
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[17:08:31] <Loetmichel> fragalot: 60kV? and still standing? what was the current limit? 2mA? ;-)
[17:08:43] <Tecan> jymmm whats a t-cooler ?
[17:08:50] <L84Supper> http://www.dekaresearch.com/stirling.shtml still can't buy one
[17:09:35] <Tecan> http://matteranenergy.com/
[17:10:12] <Jymmm> Tecan: It produces electricity from thermal differential. It can also general heat/cold from electricity. (Those 12V coolers you see in the sporting good store)
[17:10:17] <Tecan> the patent on that thing is amazing
[17:10:27] <Tecan> thermo syphon, its pumpless
[17:11:50] <fragalot> Loetmichel: 10mA, only went through my left arm thankfully
[17:11:55] <L33TG33KG34R> I don't remember who, but there was someone here that offered me some extrusion from canada for raising my CNC. Who was that? I just need some extrusion from Canada to raise my CNC. I am looking for 5' of 1545 extrusion. Could someone please help me out?
[17:12:12] <Jymmm> Tecan: http://www.tetech.com/Peltier-Thermoelectric-Cooler-Modules.html
[17:12:34] <Jymmm> Tecan: http://www.acktechnology.com/Thermoelectric%20Cooling%20Module.htm
[17:12:40] <Tecan> i found some peltier coolers on ebay 60 watt and bought 4 for 10 bux or something
[17:12:53] <Loetmichel> fragalot: that hurt, didnt it?
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[17:13:21] <fragalot> Loetmichel: no kidding
[17:13:34] <Jymmm> Tecan: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zl_AvKkCFQk
[17:13:35] <fragalot> I felt it for a week
[17:13:52] <Loetmichel> fragalot: hrhr, i know that feeling ;-)
[17:14:02] <L84Supper> matteranenergy.us is more BS, no specs
[17:14:50] <Loetmichel> was onl 8kV, but about 50mA... luckily i survived it despoite going from left to right arm... ;-)
[17:15:59] <fragalot> Loetmichel: ouch, got lucky there
[17:16:39] <Loetmichel> right
[17:17:05] <L84Supper> http://www.nextenergynews.com/news1/next-energy-news-toshiba-micro-nuclear-12.17b.html from '07
[17:19:39] <L84Supper> maybe you just have to threaten to sell an efficient low cost thorium reactor and you'll either have an accident or get bought out
[17:20:16] <Jymmm> Tecan: I mean, if you are going to go thru the trouble of building a rocket mass heater, incorporating TE Coolers if for nothing else free lighting or recharging a battery doesn't seem like a bad idea.
[17:20:40] <Tecan> no for sure not
[17:20:55] <Tecan> have them sitting on the top as a hotplate before the pot of water
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[17:21:28] <Jymmm> Tecan: Well, they need a heatsink too on the cold side.
[17:22:08] <Jymmm> Tecan: cold water pipe maybe
[17:22:38] <Tecan> youd have more hot water than you know what to do with :)
[17:22:43] <Tecan> steam power
[17:23:34] <Jymmm> Well, drawing off too much from the rocket, would reduce it's effeciancy I think
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[17:23:48] <Jymmm> it's just a balance between them
[17:24:49] <L84Supper> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/ambroseevans_pritchard/9784044/China-blazes-trail-for-clean-nuclear-power-from-thorium.html should be on Alibaba in few years :)
[17:25:19] <Jymmm> it already is, but min qty 100K units
[17:25:36] <Jymmm> and shipping is 100000000000000000X more
[17:26:18] <Jymmm> oh, it's Sunday.
[17:26:55] <L84Supper> in the west
[17:30:08] <L84Supper> http://www.sigmaaldrich.com/catalog/product/aldrich/89150?lang=en&region=US
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[17:36:02] <andypugh> I wonder what a fair peice is for a job-lot of 25 collet chucks in not-wuite the right taper for my machine?
[17:36:07] <andypugh> (price)
[17:36:14] <andypugh> (quite)
[17:57:53] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Asus-Google-Nexus-7-ASUS-1B32-32GB-Tablet-30-Visa-Gift-Card-Ear-Buds-bundle-/330871631946
[17:58:19] <r00t4rd3d> 259
[17:58:59] <ReadError> r00t4rd3d: did you check out pimpcats?
[17:59:09] <r00t4rd3d> not my style
[17:59:24] <ReadError> ah, you probably fancy the tittydrop one then
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[18:19:07] <L84Supper> http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INPAGE?PMPAGE=/specials/319-9733 picked one up with a bad motor for $1k, the gears are about as soft as butter
[18:19:48] <L84Supper> and the included wiring diagram does not match the actual wiring
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[18:21:58] <andypugh> At least you won't be throwing away nice parts if you CNC it :-)
[18:22:37] <L84Supper> I have to rewire it anyway
[18:24:28] <L84Supper> it looked like they used a forklift to move the lathe but forgot to unhook the wiring first
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[18:26:53] <tjtr33> L84Supper, in N. Il area, Igor Chudev is a linuxcnc user/integrator, has used machines too http://igor.chudov.com/projects/
[18:27:36] <L84Supper> tjtr33: I actually rent a large space from a used CNC co
[18:28:34] <L84Supper> they used to store it all here but when the economy stalled they just broker from seller to buyer
[18:29:50] <tjtr33> i'd appreciate it if you lemme know of used cnc edm. a control-less machine might be nice.
[18:30:00] <tjtr33> thx
[18:30:30] <L84Supper> I came across 2 for free last summer, you just had to pay for removal and trucking
[18:31:28] <L84Supper> tjtr33: are you in the midwest?
[18:31:33] <tjtr33> elgin
[18:32:05] <L84Supper> I came across a few in Elk Grove as well
[18:32:18] <tjtr33> hehe worked in egv for years
[18:32:20] <L84Supper> with bad controls
[18:32:45] <tjtr33> oh like at gray machinery? just repaired 2 dead okomotos down in ky form them
[18:33:34] <L84Supper> in small shops, guys that use them/buy/sell but don't know how to fix
[18:33:34] <tjtr33> 3 axis edm sinkers
[18:34:04] <L84Supper> actually heading to Carpentersville in a few minutes
[18:34:10] <tjtr33> in small shops, guys keep them running anyway they can, and repairmen eat oatmeal 3x a day :(
[18:34:15] <L84Supper> small world
[18:34:15] <tjtr33> have fun
[18:35:30] <L84Supper> http://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/tls/3563737543.html a little pricey
[18:37:28] <tjtr33> handsvedt. will run on 110 if anyones interested, good, sturdy, but completely manual, worth about 1k on street
[18:38:04] <tjtr33> thx, not my stuff tho, if its was cnc then its ready to cnc, v&flat ways & bibs are ng
[18:38:12] <tjtr33> gibs
[18:39:21] <tjtr33> 10k! hahaha
[18:40:47] <L84Supper> machine tools are cheap in China, same for welders
[18:41:11] <L84Supper> 150A TIG for $100
[18:41:30] <L84Supper> 400 A stick, $160
[18:42:42] <L84Supper> if it lasts a year and buy a new one for 5 it's still less than new MIller
[18:43:21] <fragalot> they're cheap for a reason :P
[18:43:32] <fragalot> L84Supper: a miller should outlast you
[18:44:43] <L84Supper> over there they strap them on their cycle and go to work
[18:45:05] <fragalot> I've got a cheap Contimac TIG/stick combo 160A, and a 160A LasTek tig/stick combo
[18:45:21] <fragalot> the lastek one costed around 5x what the contimac one did, but i'll take the lastek with me any day
[18:45:31] <fragalot> it just works so much nicer
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[18:46:09] <fragalot> (lastek is a Rehms rebrand)
[18:46:22] <L84Supper> if I need two pieces of metal stuck together I'll use just about anything, but if i want a nice pattern it's usually on a good welder blue/red or white
[18:46:51] <fragalot> it's not only the pattern, it's how stable and consistent the arc is
[18:46:59] <andypugh> I always liked the look of the Rehm Tiger, but not the price :-)
[18:47:01] <fragalot> and how tight it can keep it
[18:47:09] <fragalot> andypugh: yeah :P there's one thing I really dislike about it though
[18:47:19] <fragalot> andypugh: it's perfect, EXCEPT for the pulse setting not going faster than 10Hz
[18:47:30] <fragalot> so it's too fucking annoying to use and never gets used
[18:47:41] <andypugh> I like to have a welder that is motorbike portable :-)
[18:48:06] <L84Supper> it's crazy the stuff you see on bikes there
[18:48:34] <L84Supper> or a moped-like with a trailer piled with pipe 2 meters high
[18:48:35] <andypugh> fragalot: I'll give you £100 for the Tiger :-)
[18:48:37] <fragalot> I've got the old model of this thing that I take with me to places where I just KNOW it's going to take a beating: http://www.contimac.be/nl/product/412342232671457/tig/tig-dc-professional/tig-160-dc-lift
[18:49:06] <fragalot> it works, but it's a right bugger to keep a tight arc with it
[18:49:22] <fragalot> andypugh: lolno
[18:49:51] <tjtr33> andypugh, mount the welder in the side car of a Chiang Jiang ( chinese R75 )
[18:50:48] <fragalot> andypugh: I paid 2500 euro for the tiger, including a spare torch, full compact argon bottle (don't know the size, but it's about 1 meter tall), SMAW torch, 3M helmet, goat leather gloves, the box, and a stack of 1613, and 307 TIG rods
[18:50:54] <fragalot> andypugh: can't complain ^_^
[18:55:01] <andypugh> I ended up with a "Rehmann" welder from eBay. (I found that the Italians bid lowest ;-)
[18:55:32] <andypugh> It's fine. I have only actually used it a dozen times in the 3 years, so I am glad i didn't pay more.
[18:56:26] <tjtr33> andypugh, they were r71 copies from dies taken from the russians http://www.changjiangunlimited.com/03-0506-402.jpg
[18:56:44] <andypugh> Yes, I am aware of them.
[18:57:17] <andypugh> A rubbish copy of a rubbish bike..
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[18:58:06] <andypugh> I have one of these in boxes. One day it might roll again: http://motorbike-search-engine.co.uk/classic_bikes/NERACAR_MODEL_B.jpg
[18:59:09] <archivist> I want a ride on it
[19:02:05] <andypugh> So do I :-)
[19:03:26] <tjtr33> neracar! museum stuff sit on it like on a sofa
[19:11:38] <mikegg> If I put two 12v fans in series with a 24v power supply, will I fry something?
[19:12:17] <archivist> depends if the fans are identical and some luck
[19:13:16] <mikegg> ok, they are the same. Not big or expensive. Just wondering if it was worth a shot...
[19:13:31] <mikegg> I seem to be frying a lot of things lately
[19:14:50] <gene77> Ok, wiki falls over again...
[19:15:08] <archivist> at initial turn on one may take more current than the other so the voltage will not be balanced, the other will be over voltage to an unknown extent
[19:15:11] <gene77> Max limit on a lathe, is in radius, or diameter?
[19:15:23] <pcw_home> I'd worry about what power was first applied but they should balance when running (they might need a bypass cap across each one)
[19:15:44] <pcw_home> s/what/when/
[19:16:53] <archivist> I suppose a couple of 12.something zeners could help
[19:17:01] <mikegg> whats the bypass cap do? dump some current to ground / next fan when you first cut power on?
[19:18:19] <pcw_home> The fans are designed to run from a low impedance supply, you lose this when you have another fan in series
[19:19:19] <archivist> here's hoping the caps are balanced better than the motors
[19:19:35] <pcw_home> But this is just guessing (where does the inductive energy go what a winding is turned off)
[19:20:02] <pcw_home> normally back into the power supply...
[19:20:15] <mikegg> argh? I thought impedance is an AC term. When working with DC it's just resistance
[19:20:28] <gene77> testing says radius
[19:20:48] <pcw_home> DC fans represent a dynamic load
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[19:21:24] <pcw_home> They both absorb and dump energy back into the power supply
[19:21:39] <mikegg> gotcha
[19:22:00] <mikegg> but in this case that could be the other fan
[19:22:30] <mikegg> so if the phases align the wrong way you could get problems
[19:22:33] <pcw_home> And because they are usually very cheap I would not expect them to have much if any bypass capacitance
[19:24:13] <mikegg> what size bypass cap would be appropriate?
[19:24:21] <archivist> one could make a low impedance mid rail with an opamp and capacitors or something
[19:25:46] <pcw_home> Or if you have spares do the smoke experiment :)
[19:25:50] <mikegg> I'd have an easier time selling myself as a day laborer long enough to buy 24 volt fans
[19:27:00] <tjtr33> is the fpga on m5i20 Spartan 3? ( will Pong P Chu's book FPGA Programming by vhdl examples be useful? )
[19:28:08] <pcw_home> 5I20 is spartan2, 5I21,22,23, 7I43 are Spartan3, 5I25/6I25/7I80 are Spartan6
[19:28:17] <archivist> pnp and an npn two diodes and two resistors and a couple of caps
[19:29:04] <tjtr33> thx just found it was 2
[19:29:22] <pcw_home> or just try in series (I wonder what the absolute max the will take is?)
[19:29:56] <pcw_home> 5I20 is quite old (last of the 5V tolerant FPGAs)
[19:30:11] <archivist> if one fails short the other will go faster :)
[19:31:08] <pcw_home> Reminds me of when i put my lab supply on one of those barking puppy toys...
[19:32:25] <archivist> I have destroyed a few things trying "what if I do"
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[19:33:55] <tjtr33> pcw_home, hehe m5i20's and D510's were all the rage not long ago. the 7i43 looks interesting, but i suppose the 5i25 is the new workhorse
[19:34:47] <fragalot> archivist: haven't we all?
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[19:35:36] <archivist> starts when as a kid you take things apart :)
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[19:38:05] <fragalot> I remember saying "I'll fix it for you!" as a kid... and then bricking it completely
[19:38:08] <fragalot> xD
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[19:39:44] <mikegg> well, so far so good. Would it make a difference that it's on a regulated power supply? I'll leave em running for a bit....
[19:42:52] <pcw_home> tjtr33 yes 5I25/6I25 and 7I80 and variants when its supported
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[19:46:22] <tjtr33> pcw_home, what might you recommend for studying fpga programming? i need special triggerable pulsers down to 2uS or less periods. and what i really need might change, so dev tool is needed.
[19:47:29] <tjtr33> maybe i should just use the 5i20 if its that much behind the new stuff
[19:47:34] <pcw_home> Well chose a language and get a good book
[19:47:49] <tjtr33> yah Cho & Vhdl
[19:47:56] <tjtr33> thx
[19:48:55] <fragalot> the only trick you need to keep in mind when it comes to FPGA's is that you're describing hardware, not programming software
[19:49:08] <fragalot> it might sound obvious but the way you do things is significantly different
[19:49:10] <pcw_home> I have designed guide to VHLD that pretty good
[19:49:16] <pcw_home> designers
[19:49:23] <fragalot> once you make that click, it's pretty easy :)
[19:49:51] <pcw_home> yes its parallel (but I started from a hardware perspective so it was easy for me)
[19:51:51] <pcw_home> The thing that was hard for me to grasp at first was the serial program structures in the HLL (like loops) were only compile time generators of parallel logic
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[20:32:30] <gene77> Is there a way to clear all 'touch offs' without a shutdown and deletion of linuxcnc.var?
[20:32:40] <spiderdijon> hey, does anyone have a huanyang vfd here? I need some advice on grounding.
[20:33:18] <ReadError> is that the 300$ one they sell with the spindle on ebay?
[20:33:31] <spiderdijon> yus :)
[20:33:47] <ReadError> yea i saw in a vid, they arent actually grounded
[20:33:51] <ReadError> you have to do it manually
[20:34:33] <spiderdijon> ah I had come to the same conclusion, can you remember the vid link?
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[20:36:21] <spiderdijon> sad thing is I'm still experiencing some nasty interference when the spindle is running, seems to stall my steppers frequently
[20:36:56] <spiderdijon> short, shielded spindle cable which is running separately from the stepper lines
[20:37:01] <ReadError> yea hold on
[20:37:58] <ReadError> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBHMjJ7azzE
[20:42:05] <mrsun> unconnected ground
[20:42:08] <mrsun> how nice of them :P
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[20:45:44] <Loetmichel> mrsun: normal. Was the same on mine
[20:47:14] <mrsun> well not very normal as its dangerous ...
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[20:47:16] <mrsun> :P
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[20:51:54] <Loetmichel> mrsun: even better: on mine the green one was a hase and the blu wire was open ;-)
[20:52:03] <Loetmichel> phase
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[20:52:40] <mrsun> ... :P
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[20:52:48] <mrsun> quality
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[21:00:22] <spiderdijon> ah, the interference is flowing along the spindle trigger wires
[21:00:46] <spiderdijon> DCM and FOR if anyone is interested
[21:03:52] <spiderdijon> looks like im going to have to RS-485
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[21:21:22] <Icekiller> its my birthday w00tw00t :P
[21:22:34] <L33TG33KG34R> HBD!
[21:23:33] <Icekiller> thx
[21:25:17] <spiderdijon> :D
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[21:28:41] <spiderdijon> also turns out it is my water pump
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[21:33:42] <r00t4rd3d> http://pics.kuvaton.com/kuvei/most_expensive_liquid.jpg
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[21:40:27] <andypugh> scrolling back: fragalot: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlJsPa6UwcM
[21:40:50] <andypugh> gene77: Look at G10
[21:41:03] <fragalot> andypugh: ahaha
[21:42:41] <fragalot> I didn't know dilbert had animated stuff
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[21:52:40] <L33TG33KG34R> hehehe
[21:53:47] <L84Supper> r00t4rd3d: and hp45 ink isn't the most expensive inkjet ink
[21:55:10] <skunkworks> sure not - We have some large format printers that the ink is quite expensive
[21:57:07] <L84Supper> I think that chart assumed the price of the hp45 ink sold in the cartridge ~40ml at list price
[21:57:41] <L84Supper> it only costs about $5 a liter to make
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[22:01:40] <andypugh> What does squid ink cost?
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[22:01:54] <toastyde2th> minecraft or irl
[22:02:14] <andypugh> Either, but please answe rhetorically :-)
[22:02:48] <andypugh> (Kraken's blood is the most valuable commodity in YPP Puzzle Pirates)
[22:03:07] <L84Supper> anything with pixie dust
[22:03:31] <toastyde2th> squid ink is pretty boring except it can be hard to find if you spawned nowhere near any large bodies of water
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[22:03:49] <toastyde2th> the only thing that makes it semi-rare is that farming it is nearly impossible
[22:03:52] <L84Supper> same for faerie or fairy
[22:04:10] <toastyde2th> so you never really have an overabundance of it, it's always at the same level
[22:04:14] <andypugh> http://yppedia.puzzlepirates.com/Kraken's_blood
[22:05:43] <andypugh> I spent months getting enough together for a complete black outfit. I had forgotten all about that until I asked that question.
[22:06:04] <L84Supper> is that anything like having your underwear ride up your Kracken?
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[22:06:27] <andypugh> In fact, I am going to log in to the game for the first time in months to see if it has been eaten by moths yet :-)
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[22:23:49] <DJ9DJ> gn8
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[22:25:19] <Jymmm> andypugh: WOW! You around on a weekend (or is it Monday there already?)
[22:27:56] <skunkworks> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQIGpCBTXsg
[22:33:33] <andypugh> Jymmm: Just got back from 14 days in Lapland
[22:34:32] <andypugh> skunkworks: Too much overhang! Why do they do that?
[22:35:50] <L84Supper> andypugh: how was the weather? besides cold
[22:35:58] <andypugh> Not cold enough
[22:36:39] <L84Supper> i thought you guys (norther europe) got buried in snow last month
[22:36:58] <andypugh> We wanted -30 and got -10 though.
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[23:36:25] <r00t4rd3d> From this http://i.imgur.com/2Phhw6h.jpg to this http://i.imgur.com/fwVLv3h.jpg
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[23:45:46] <tjb1> r00t4rd3d So you stole that
[23:45:57] <ReadError> to never running again?
[23:46:49] <r00t4rd3d> I am a 2 stroke wizard
[23:47:13] <ReadError> if we where not talking about engines, that could be read differently...
[23:47:37] <ReadError> just sayin
[23:48:00] <r00t4rd3d> i said 2 stroke not 4
[23:48:11] <r00t4rd3d> http://i.imgur.com/c80iLPj.jpg
[23:48:42] <r00t4rd3d> bet i can ride a wheelie longer then you
[23:49:07] <ReadError> child please
[23:49:13] <ReadError> i used to run real bikes
[23:49:57] <r00t4rd3d> I do that too http://i.imgur.com/3SHfWLn.jpg
[23:50:09] <tjb1> puss
[23:50:52] <ReadError> i mean, r6, r1 :)
[23:51:12] <tjb1> r00t4rd3d couldnt handle a bike with a real motor
[23:52:46] <r00t4rd3d> 700 Raptor http://i.imgur.com/KD4KUhy.jpg
[23:53:16] <tjb1> Look at that horrible posture
[23:53:25] <tjb1> uneven
[23:53:33] <tjb1> going to be painful landing
[23:53:37] <tjb1> what a noob
[23:53:51] <r00t4rd3d> soft sand
[23:54:32] <tjb1> still a bad way to land
[23:54:46] <ReadError> got me some 1/4" endmills too
[23:54:51] <ReadError> never cut with something so large
[23:54:56] <ReadError> should eat right through aluminum
[23:55:27] <tjb1> 660 raptor will beat a 250 ninja up until 60mph
[23:55:52] <r00t4rd3d> 660 has carb, 700 FI
[23:56:13] <alex4nder> who is racing 250 ninjas?
[23:56:18] <r00t4rd3d> lol
[23:56:24] <tjb1> Yeah I know 660 has 2 carbs...
[23:56:47] <tjb1> carbs > fi
[23:58:22] <tjb1> fi is for people like r00t4rd3d that dont know how to tune carbs ;)