#linuxcnc | Logs for 2013-02-07

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[00:11:56] <JT-Shop> someone with an extra trammel email me one
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[00:23:22] <r00t4rd3d> http://arduino.cc/forum/index.php/topic,146315.0.html
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[00:29:27] <Thetawaves> i like those diagrams
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[00:59:12] <jsr> JT-Shop : so I go into terminal, navigate to jsr/emc2/configs/DRO (where the .hal and .XML files are, type . ./scripts/rip-environment, and I get no such file or directory.
[01:01:18] <jsr> even if I go to jsr/emc2-dev/scripts and type rip-environment, I get no such file or directory.
[01:03:41] <jsr> actually, it's command not found in the last instance
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[01:05:24] <skunkworks> you need to be in the directory that linuxcnc was installes
[01:06:06] <skunkworks> like /home/username/linuxcnc
[01:06:37] <skunkworks> like /home/username/linuxcnc
[01:06:44] <skunkworks> heh
[01:07:05] <skunkworks> where ever you installed the rip
[01:07:38] <jsr> like jsr/emc2-dev?
[01:07:49] <skunkworks> exactly
[01:09:08] <jsr> I've never seen the structure of ". ./" before. what exactly is that doing for me?
[01:12:44] <jdh> ./ is your current path, . means to source the file listed, so . ./foo means to source the items in the file foo
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[01:16:51] <jsr> so " to source" in this case means to execute each instruction in the foo file?
[01:17:38] <jdh> yes, it's just like typing them at the command line
[01:17:55] <jdh> 'help source'
[01:18:21] <jdh> they are executed in teh current shell context instead of in a subshell
[01:18:35] <jsr> OK, thanks.
[01:19:14] <jdh> certainly.
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[01:19:37] <jdh> now, tell me how to get a raspberry pi to run a gui python app automatically when X starts.
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[01:33:13] <WalterN> rebuild the engine in my old car or build CNC engraving machine?
[01:33:21] <jdh> cnc
[01:33:41] <WalterN> (both will eventually happen... just which order)
[01:33:41] <jdh> might try asking in #OldCars for a different perspective
[01:33:43] <ReadError> all my parts are ordered :)
[01:34:58] <WalterN> the thing is
[01:35:23] <WalterN> the CNC machine in parts (last I looked a few years ago) would cost something like $8,000
[01:43:13] <ReadError> halp
[01:43:14] <ReadError> r00t4rd3d
[01:43:24] <ReadError> where where those tslotter router things
[01:43:29] <ReadError> derp
[01:43:30] <ReadError> where are*
[01:43:57] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/smarthtml/pages/bt_keyhl.html
[01:44:04] <r00t4rd3d> bottom, #6334
[01:44:44] <ReadError> 1" ??
[01:44:54] <r00t4rd3d> bottom, #6334
[01:45:26] <r00t4rd3d> the 1" has a 1/2 shank
[01:46:44] <ReadError> thats a pretty fat tslow
[01:46:47] <ReadError> tslot
[01:46:49] <ReadError> stupid fingers
[02:01:55] <r00t4rd3d> you buy one?
[02:02:02] <ReadError> yea i got both
[02:02:39] <r00t4rd3d> havent used mine yet but it seems to be nice quality
[02:03:27] <ReadError> figure ill cut it # style
[02:03:32] <ReadError> some cuts going both ways
[02:03:58] <r00t4rd3d> yeah thats a good idea
[02:04:10] <r00t4rd3d> Im gonna do my spoil board here soon
[02:04:22] <ReadError> do you just use a screw to hold stuff down now?
[02:05:13] <r00t4rd3d> quick clamps and these
[02:05:14] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:776
[02:06:02] <r00t4rd3d> they have different knobs on thingiverse too
[02:06:40] <ReadError> lol why would you make a foam guitar
[02:08:09] <r00t4rd3d> probably a test cut
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[02:46:16] <Connor> anyone know about attaching a MPG to a 7i77 without using up one of the encoders? Looking at tne pncconf.. I'm not seeing it.. the 7i76 has such a input...
[02:48:34] <Connor> Well.. I thought it did...
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[03:09:50] <r00t4rd3d> i doubt any of the mesa nerds are still awake
[03:10:45] <ReadError> i need to get another PCI parport card
[03:10:51] <ReadError> something that works w/o any messing around
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[03:15:26] <r00t4rd3d> http://imgur.com/a/LONu4#0
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[03:17:04] <r00t4rd3d> i hate gootball but that is cool
[03:17:09] <r00t4rd3d> foot
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[03:26:45] <ReadError> yea thats pretty cool
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[03:30:51] <r00t4rd3d> http://kregjig.ning.com/photo/photo/listForContributor?screenName=1nn8q4b828opd
[03:30:57] <r00t4rd3d> i want to make that
[03:31:40] <r00t4rd3d> i like the 2x4 table construction
[03:31:59] <pcw_home> Connor: the 7I77 also has the MPG input option (2 MPGs max)
[03:35:21] <ssi> pcw: hey is the 7I80 new?
[03:35:25] <ssi> and is it as awesome as it sounds?!
[03:36:40] * ReadError wants ALLLLL the toys
[03:36:59] <ssi> ME TOO
[03:38:34] <ReadError> i hope UPS doesnt screw me
[03:38:43] <ReadError> wednesday would be perfect for my stuff to show up
[03:39:57] <ReadError> the other week i ordered some stuff from mcmaster
[03:40:04] <ReadError> was supposed to show up friday
[03:40:17] <ReadError> due to "emergency" conditions they didnt deliver that day
[03:40:39] <ReadError> USPS came, but no presents from them ;(
[03:45:07] <ssi> :/
[03:45:15] <ssi> I was expecting servos today, but alas they didn't show
[03:45:24] <ssi> https://tools.usps.com/go/TrackConfirmAction.action?tLabels=9405511201080862775171
[03:45:27] <ssi> :(
[03:45:38] <ssi> prolly lost in the damn mail :(
[03:45:45] <ssi> that's the kind of day i've been having
[03:45:48] <ReadError> atleast you will get them before the weekend
[03:45:56] <ssi> city code enforcement trying to cite me for my forklift this morning
[03:46:05] <ssi> cat knocked my ipad off my desk and broke the screen
[03:46:09] <ssi> servos lost in the mail
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[03:46:10] <ssi> fuck today
[03:46:17] <ReadError> damn
[03:46:23] <ReadError> yea worse than mine by far ;(
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[04:03:02] <r00t4rd3d> crabs?
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[04:13:44] <ssi> not yet
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[04:19:28] <ReadError> the night is young
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[04:19:45] <ReadError> and its friday \o/
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[04:32:04] <ssi> it's not even close to friday :'(
[04:32:52] <jdh> it will be thursday here in half an hour. That's almost friday
[04:32:55] <ReadError> well for me it is
[04:33:01] <ReadError> i work sun->wed
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[04:40:31] <ssi> cram you with your 3 day weekend!
[04:41:39] <ssi> any of you smart folks have experience with hexapod kinematics?
[04:42:05] <ssi> and I mean hexapod in the walking robot sense, not the stewart platform sense :)
[04:42:40] <Connor> pcw_home: Not seeing those in the pncconf... where would those be? or is my xml files out dated?
[04:43:22] <Connor> jdh: *poke*
[04:45:58] <jdh> ouch
[04:46:09] <Connor> pvt msg window...
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[04:51:19] <r00t4rd3d> Hmm I just had a cop email me about engraving some gun stocks
[04:53:03] <ssi> don't let him randy weaver your ass!
[04:53:07] <ssi> :D
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[05:03:51] <pcw_home> Connor probably too new for pncconf, you will have to set it up directly in hal
[05:04:12] <Connor> okay. any samples on it?
[05:04:32] <jdh> what's the difference between an MPG and an encoder for the card?
[05:05:01] <Connor> the MPG can be lower bandwidth most likly..
[05:05:12] <Connor> I think it's handled by the serial side of the card ??
[05:11:40] <pcw_home> Yes its a quadrature counter on the DIO part of the 7I77 (2 wires only, no index and defaults to 1x mode) good for maybe 20KHz
[05:12:31] <Connor> which pins does it tie to on both the 7i76 and 7i77 ?
[05:13:11] <pcw_home> I think its IN16,17,18,19
[05:13:23] <pcw_home> its in the manual
[05:14:28] <Connor> What is BLDC control ?
[05:14:50] <jdh> brushless dc
[05:15:08] <Connor> AH. Duh..
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[05:44:06] <Connor> BTW Guys, the D525 Atom board... is GONE.
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[05:45:25] <Valen> hrm?
[05:46:34] <Connor> Intel is no longer making Mobo's ??
[05:47:29] <Valen> oh
[05:47:45] <Connor> and new egg doesn't have the d525 atom board anymore.
[05:47:54] <Valen> sounds like it could be a ways off though
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[05:48:10] <Valen> I'll wager most of the other manufacturers boards will perform in a similar fashion
[05:48:32] <Connor> Yea, just sucks. I liked the board. :) I need to get another one..
[05:48:38] <Connor> some on ebay..
[05:48:39] <Valen> yeah same
[05:49:04] <Valen> He also noted that desktop motherboards with new core logic supporting Haswell will be offered by Intel, and and will be sold throughout Haswell’s life. This means new Intel motherboards will remain on the market for roughly 18 months after the new CPU ships, with warranty support continuing beyond that period.
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[06:40:12] <Loetmichel> mornin'
[06:44:16] <r00t4rd3d> go back to bed.
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[06:46:14] <r00t4rd3d> Connor, the 525 is already listed as "end of life"
[06:46:16] <r00t4rd3d> http://ark.intel.com/products/48952/Intel-Desktop-Board-D525MW
[06:47:18] <r00t4rd3d> the prices should drop soon
[06:49:59] <r00t4rd3d> or become rare and skyrocket
[06:50:19] <r00t4rd3d> a couple other manufactures make clones of the same thing though too
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[07:18:03] <r00t4rd3d> there is better intel atom boards out now anyway
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[07:23:08] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813121643
[07:23:16] <r00t4rd3d> "Free Etch-A-Sketch with purchase, limited offer "
[07:23:20] <r00t4rd3d> lol
[07:23:41] <r00t4rd3d> eww its a special Intel edition too
[07:23:42] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16800995144
[07:24:29] <r00t4rd3d> in 50 years that will probably be worth big cash
[07:27:17] <Valen> keep it mint in box ;->
[07:27:42] <r00t4rd3d> yeah for sure, box looks sweet too
[07:28:13] <r00t4rd3d> makes me wanna the motherboard just for the etch a sketch
[07:28:20] <r00t4rd3d> wanna buy*
[07:28:59] <r00t4rd3d> ReadError, can I get them credit card numbers again ?
[07:30:44] <r00t4rd3d> Bubba: What yous in four? Me: I carded a motherboard for the free etch-a-sketch.
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[07:40:56] <Tecan> holy shit newegg has 17 tracking cookies
[07:41:47] <Tecan> probably a deal on etchasketch because the inventor just died
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[08:14:56] <L84Supper> http://www.ohioart.com/etch/virtual_popup.jsp
[08:15:21] <L84Supper> http://www.ohioart.com/lets_sketch.jsp
[08:17:11] <L84Supper> I hear that if you hook up motors to the knobs and use CNC software you can automate it :)
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[08:20:16] <Tecan> you should really use /away instead of changing the nick
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[08:32:37] <archivist> L84Supper, http://axis.unpythonic.net/etchcnc
[08:33:33] <archivist> also in servo version http://emergent.unpythonic.net/projects/01142347802
[08:47:23] <L84Supper> archivist: has it really been 8 years since he posted that?
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[10:06:23] <archivist_herron> L84Supper, time flies :)
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[13:23:33] <gene_> G'Morning all;
[13:25:06] <gene_> Probably silly Q: One both the mill and the lathe, the VEL= report is missing. Is it gone for good, or can I put a line in the .ini files to restore it?
[13:26:25] <gene_> Probably silly Q: On (damn typus') both the mill and the lathe, the VEL= report is missing. Is it gone for good, or can I put a line in the .ini files to restore it?
[13:32:08] <cpresser> gene_: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/gui/axis.html#_menu_items
[13:32:16] <cpresser> "show velocity" :)
[13:33:51] <gene_> Is a menu selection nowadays? Kewl!
[13:34:50] <jthornton> and the menu selection is remembered...
[13:35:17] <gene_> Except its checked, but not working. ?
[13:35:34] <frallzor> hey there Mr jthornton
[13:36:00] <jthornton> http://imagebin.org/245798
[13:36:08] <jthornton> hi frallzor
[13:36:35] <frallzor> wanna help me?
[13:36:56] <frallzor> Im baking bread and wanna go outside, watch my bread for me!
[13:37:16] <jthornton> mmmm bread
[13:37:23] <frallzor> ciabattas =)
[13:37:58] <gene_> Morning John Anyway that image is the old gui, I'm on the devel branch, mine is much busier a display.
[13:38:21] <jthornton> ah french bread
[13:38:28] <jthornton> morning Gene
[13:38:37] <frallzor> Italian
[13:38:39] <frallzor> even
[13:38:44] <jthornton> not using Axis?
[13:38:49] <frallzor> ciabatta is the italian word for "slipper"
[13:39:24] <jthornton> the photo looks like french bread from New Orleans used to make po-boys
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[13:39:50] <jthornton> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ciabatta
[13:39:56] <frallzor> Id guess many breads look alike =)
[13:40:41] <jthornton> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Po%27_boy
[13:41:15] <frallzor> ciabattas with some roastbeef, sallad and remoulade sauce and roasted onion.... mmmmmmmm
[13:41:38] <jthornton> better make more than one...
[13:41:57] <frallzor> made 6 =P
[13:42:43] <frallzor> https://vimeo.com/59098756 did you see this? =P
[13:42:48] <frallzor> Was bored yesterday
[13:43:41] <jthornton> nice!
[13:43:48] <gene_> http://imagebin.org/245799
[13:44:36] <jthornton> yikes! why even have a back plot with all that stuff in there?
[13:45:05] <jdh> did you make or buy the touch off probe?
[13:45:16] <gene_> Notice no VEL. Damned if I know John, I have no clue how that stuff got there
[13:46:02] <frallzor> jdh buy
[13:46:11] <frallzor> cheapo from cnc-plus.de
[13:46:35] <frallzor> better than a solid plate atleast =)
[13:46:40] <gene_> I'd snapshot the mill, 4 axis, but its running on its own screen ATM.
[13:47:14] <jthornton> this is what I'm working on http://imagebin.org/245800
[13:47:34] <frallzor> ohhh fancy
[13:47:40] <frallzor> share when done? =P
[13:47:52] <jthornton> you bet
[13:48:19] <frallzor> seems like a simple touchy without the need for physical buttons
[13:48:23] <jthornton> I always share my toys... but not my tools :) unless I trust you with them
[13:48:40] <jthornton> it is a touch screen but not a touchy
[13:49:01] <frallzor> axis gone touchy? =)
[13:49:32] <jthornton> more like JT gone touchy
[13:49:48] <gene_> That would be a switch, but I could get used to it.
[13:49:53] <frallzor> whats left to do on that? b
[13:50:01] <frallzor> bunch of coding I guess
[13:50:32] <jthornton> http://imagebin.org/245803
[13:50:55] <jthornton> yea, I'm working with Dewey getting pyngcgui to work with it at the moment
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[13:51:36] <jthornton> http://imagebin.org/245805
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[13:52:04] <frallzor> inder diameter tapering I guess? =)
[13:52:10] <jthornton> http://imagebin.org/245806
[13:52:24] <jthornton> yea, anything you want to do almost
[13:52:41] <frallzor> I miss my machine
[13:52:48] <gene_> Neat, now to hook it all up ;-)
[13:52:57] <frallzor> I should remove the 4 tires on its bed so I can machine =P
[14:00:40] <gene_> John, found it, turn off "show extents" Much nicer display. I don't recall turning it on.. Oldtimers? Probably.
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[14:02:13] <jthornton> might be default or something till you turn it off
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[14:03:44] <gene_> And it wasn't extents, it was offsets. Anyway, fixed. Thanks for the prompt.
[14:03:53] <jthornton> np
[14:05:09] * jthornton heads out to greet the new day
[14:05:41] <gene_> I'll go get some pix of the new screw in the lathe later this morning. Its a kluge in the grand meaning of the word, but its better than before.
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[14:30:30] <Tecan> http://www.phonelosers.org/media/dealership_old_man02.mp3
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[14:48:31] <frallzor> hail/snowing
[14:48:33] <frallzor> booooh
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[15:30:59] * frallzor is bored
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[15:33:07] <archivist_herron> boredom you can afford by Cyril Lord, Im bored, ....Bonzo Dog Doo Dah Band 1960's or possibly 70's
[15:34:19] <archivist_herron> 1967 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgMI0BObEXI
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[15:38:45] <l3wood> Hello. trying to run LinuxCNC 10.04 LiveCD and it is asking for a username and password when booting. Anyone know what the username and password are for the LiveCD? Thanks!
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[15:40:24] <archivist_herron> you are creating them when you install
[15:40:52] <jdh> try user: ubuntu, no pass.
[15:41:01] <mrsun> https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=Z-ewg8su4DY deathmachine anyone ?
[15:42:05] <l3wood> jdh >> didn't work
[15:42:47] <jdh> seems like it was something obvious, but that's about all I remember.
[15:42:55] <l3wood> archivist herron >> first boot of LiveCD it goes to login screen, I have not installed anything yet
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[15:43:17] <jdh> do you actually want to run the live cd, or install?
[15:43:58] <skunkworks> l3wood, that normally doesn't happen.... Is it a text screen?
[15:47:31] <l3wood> skunkworks>> No, it is the same screen you would see if you tried to log out of ubuntu, and log back in. I will check the MD5 of the burned disk, and see if it is a bad burn maybe???
[15:48:17] <skunkworks> maybe - I don't know - I have booted the livecd many many times and never had it come to a logoin
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[15:48:30] <skunkworks> login screen
[15:50:21] <l3wood> I'll try to reburn the disk. I have never seen a liveCD login screen either, unless I log out and then log back in, and then it is always user> ubuntu password> none
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[16:28:23] <r00t4rd3d> is the login screen just a black background with a prompt like GRUB>
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[16:36:15] <JT-Shop> crap all my links are borked in my G code quick reference...
[16:38:41] <frallzor> ahhh finally, remote start for the shop vac!
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[16:55:01] <anonimas1> archivist_herron: I found the problem with my tailstock
[16:55:12] <anonimas1> the alignment blocks are worn.
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[16:56:01] <anonimas1> archivist_herron: so it moves 0.10 everytime you pull it to slide it
[16:56:27] <anonimas1> I have new ones just gotta scrape them into a super tight fit
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[17:08:37] <anonimas1> archivist_herron: tho as I have the tailstock off, I'll add wipers, and maybe drill a oil hole or two,
[17:08:48] <archivist> :0
[17:09:00] <archivist> just got back home
[17:09:35] <anonimas1> archivist: I figured my problem, and I am working on a solution, tho the base is a bit worn/scratched, not much tho(not enough to cause problems)
[17:10:03] <anonimas1> just scraped off the burrs on the inside of the v, so it wont scrape the bed of the lathe..
[17:10:14] <anonimas1> there was one from a chip being stuck
[17:11:05] <archivist> I was thinking later you should have been able to feel the chip/whatever causing it to not sit tight on the v
[17:11:23] <anonimas1> it werent stuck there anymore it sits tight
[17:11:33] <anonimas1> the problem were the alignment pegs for the x adjustment
[17:11:45] <anonimas1> 0.10mm of play from them being worn
[17:12:37] <anonimas1> the so basically it pivots everytime that you move it
[17:12:40] <archivist> hammer them so they fit the slots :)
[17:13:29] <anonimas1> haha yeah that's a great plan
[17:13:34] <archivist> had to "jump up" some clock bits that were worn thin :)
[17:14:00] <anonimas1> I'd rather make new ones, and scrape them until they are good enough
[17:14:42] <anonimas1> if I had a grinder it'd be a quick fix.
[17:15:18] <anonimas1> facemilling something square to better then 0.002mm is not so damn easy
[17:16:06] <anonimas1> :/
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[17:19:31] * anonimas1 reads a thread about a new haas lathe
[17:19:59] <anonimas1> they are talking how holding 0.0003" over 2 days is amazing.
[17:20:55] <anonimas1> a 20 year old okuma or mori seiki would kick it's ass. :/
[17:21:00] <archivist> how many part made...2
[17:22:02] <anonimas1> that's almost 0.01mm :S
[17:22:25] <anonimas1> 0.0076mm over 2 days..
[17:23:19] <archivist> but if they only made two parts one on each day...
[17:23:44] <anonimas1> true
[17:23:45] <Tecan> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4b4DfRli_c << switchfoot - war inside reminds me of you guys
[17:23:58] <anonimas1> it's still pretty crappy
[17:25:53] <anonimas1> I ran 250 parts out of plastic they were within 0.002mm off the lathe..
[17:26:45] <anonimas1> tho they screwed up after they started to absorb moisture, as they were nylon instead of acetal :D
[17:26:56] <anonimas1> supplier screw-up
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[17:28:19] <anonimas1> (on a sidenote it's funny how a new machine has shittier specs then a really old one)
[17:28:44] <Connor> http://www.ebay.com/itm/130843317449
[17:28:58] <Connor> look what I won on ebay. :)
[17:29:21] <anonimas1> neat
[17:34:20] <syyl_ws> hrhr
[17:34:38] <syyl_ws> i thought right now "2/1000 on plastic parts?"
[17:34:50] <Connor> jthornton: What GUI is that? That touchy with Germlin ?
[17:34:50] <syyl_ws> and then read the part with "absorbed moisture"
[17:34:51] <syyl_ws> :D
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[17:35:37] <jdh> connor: nice score
[17:35:56] <Connor> jdh: Yea.. I showed you already! :) But.. Got it with no other bidders. :)
[17:35:57] <skunkworks> Connor, a gui that JT-Shop has been working on
[17:35:59] <archivist> its the way plastic expands while being machined that is really fun
[17:36:23] <Connor> I've tried adding Gremlin to Touchy with very little success.. :(
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[17:37:39] <anonimas1> syyl_ws: well, it was supposed to be +/- 0.02mm so, no problems there.
[17:37:55] <JT-Shop> yo, someone holler?
[17:38:05] <Connor> (12:35:57 PM) skunkworks: Connor, a gui that JT-Shop has been working on
[17:38:20] <skunkworks> Connor, there is an example with with a tool path display in touchy
[17:38:26] <skunkworks> I think it is under glade
[17:38:30] <skunkworks> iirc
[17:38:46] <Connor> skunkworks: I've looked.. it's not in the sim..
[17:39:02] <skunkworks> no - I think it is under the glade examples
[17:39:28] <Connor> JT-Shop: Now that I've got a touch screen coming (http://www.ebay.com/itm/130843317449) looking for touch screen friendly interface..
[17:39:44] <Connor> jthornton had a few image bin links to one.. looked nice.
[17:40:08] <jdh> I want a Do-What-I-Want interface
[17:40:08] <frallzor> im pretty sure theyre the same =P
[17:40:11] <JT-Shop> gscreen is pretty stable, mine has a ways to go and it a different layout
[17:40:47] <Connor> http://imagebin.org/245800 <-- is yours ?
[17:41:13] <Connor> Oh, and my keyboard has 24 Function keys.. not sure I can use them all.. but.. it has them. :)
[17:41:42] <JT-Shop> aye tis mine
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[17:43:02] <JT-Shop> the small tabs are only for programming and will not be there in use
[17:43:17] <JT-Shop> the big buttons swap tabs
[17:43:45] <Connor> JT-Shop: The Manaul/RUn/Program/Subs tabs ?
[17:43:49] <frallzor> valentines gift, small cute decorative thingie, or a small table?
[17:44:14] <JT-Shop> yes
[17:44:55] <Connor> gscreen looks interesting.. where do I find it ?
[17:45:04] * JT-Shop heads for the cocina for a dog
[17:45:10] <JT-Shop> master
[17:45:21] <JT-Shop> see the GUI section of the forum
[17:46:02] <JT-Shop> Chris has a lot of intrest in i
[17:46:03] <JT-Shop> t
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[17:47:40] <Connor> I hate trying to find stuff in threads...
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[17:47:56] <Connor> I found his thread.. but.. Is the links on the very first page the most recent ?
[17:51:59] <r00t4rd3d> read to the end and find out
[17:52:01] <r00t4rd3d> :)
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[17:54:53] <JT-Shop> lol
[17:55:01] <Connor> r00t4rd3d: Smake
[17:55:17] <Connor> looks like it's already patched in.. just need to change display = gscreen
[17:55:39] <JT-Shop> yep, if your running master
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[17:59:01] <Connor> What is show DTG ?
[18:02:23] <anonimas1> distance to go
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[18:09:15] <Connor> what other gui's have been merged in now ?
[18:11:22] <jthornton> Yippie! pyngcgui running in my custom GUI... I'm almost there now
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[19:15:46] <frallzor> ahh stock in the machine!
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[19:22:57] <frallzor> http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/6752/img4786fs.jpg some hot action shots
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[19:25:24] <Connor> pcw_home: Question: On the 7i77 board and the pncconf.. I don't see Analog output.. just PWM Generators... Is that what we use for 0-10v out ?
[19:26:02] <jdh> did you get mesa stuff?
[19:26:23] <Connor> yea. but with the 7i77 board.. which is Encoder/Analog
[19:26:44] <pcw_home> I dont know about pncconf, the HAL pins are "analog" something
[19:28:10] <pcw_home> hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.1.analogout0 etc
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[20:17:53] <cmorley> Connor: what firmware are you using in pncconf? 7i77x2? smartserial tabs 1 and 4 are the analog
[20:18:23] <Connor> what x1 or x2 mean ?
[20:18:40] <Connor> I was using x1
[20:18:48] <cmorley> number of 7i77 boards you are using
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[20:19:48] <cmorley> ok then smartserial tab 1
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[20:21:51] <Connor> yea. Just says Unused PWM Gen.
[20:22:02] <cmorley> yep thats them
[20:22:17] <Connor> okay. IMHO PWM != ANALOG
[20:22:56] <Connor> I'm guessing that the breakout board has PWM to Analog converters.. It's just misleading.
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[20:23:02] <cmorley> the tab above the pins does say analog output but I do understand your point
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[20:25:05] <Jymmm> cmorley: http://cdn.lolhappens.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/181171_321664641266744_945146969_n.jpg
[20:25:48] <cmorley> well gee don't sugar coar it - tell me what you really think :)
[20:25:56] <Jymmm> =)
[20:26:43] <Jymmm> cmorley: You're the oatmeal to my coffee, m'kay?!
[20:26:58] <Jymmm> BTW.... EWW
[20:27:08] <cmorley> lol oky doky
[20:27:26] <Jymmm> cmorley: You're the Mustard to my coffee,
[20:27:31] <Jymmm> lol
[20:27:39] <anonimas1> they dont go togther at all.
[20:28:05] <cmorley> Jymmm: you work alot with strong chemicals??
[20:28:37] <Jymmm> cmorley: Just sulfuric acid only when I have to.
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[20:28:49] <cmorley> nasty stuff
[20:28:54] <Jymmm> Yep =)
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[20:29:25] <andypugh> Is there an online G-code simulator that understands RS274NGC O-codes?
[20:29:47] <Jymmm> cmorley: and a big box of baking soda too =)
[20:29:55] <cmorley> Connor: actually I'm not sure how the 7i77 makes the analog signal - it was a case of ease / speed of programming.
[20:30:13] <andypugh> For unclear reasons I can't even run a sim version under VirtualPC
[20:30:25] <cmorley> lol good plan Jymmm
[20:30:31] <Connor> cmorley: you wrote the pncconf ?
[20:30:37] <cmorley> yes
[20:30:39] <Jymmm> cmorley: Actually, I catty Baking Soda in my FAK
[20:30:46] <Jymmm> carry
[20:30:48] <Connor> add in the MPG's then. :)
[20:31:01] <cmorley> There are
[20:31:02] <Jymmm> Miles Per Gallon?
[20:31:37] <Connor> No. the lowspeed encoders for Manual Pulse Generator smart a$$
[20:31:38] <cmorley> encoders can be mpgs
[20:32:01] <Connor> Yes. But, they've added 2 low speed ones.. check with pcw_home
[20:32:14] <Jymmm> cmorley: Most ppl dont consider chemical burn potential in their FAK.
[20:32:37] <Connor> The latest 7I77 firmware also has 2 MPG inputs available on 4 of the field I/O pins so you dont need to waste high speed encoder inputs on a MPG.
[20:32:45] <Connor> as does the 7i76
[20:32:54] <andypugh> Jymmm: Most people (me included) haven't the foggiest idea what an FAK is.
[20:33:36] <cmorley> ya i looked it up it's still not clear ...
[20:34:06] <cmorley> Connor I have not seen this new firmware
[20:35:04] <Connor> (12:12:31 AM) Connor: which pins does it tie to on both the 7i76 and 7i77 ?
[20:35:04] <Connor> (12:13:11 AM) pcw_home: I think its IN16,17,18,19
[20:35:04] <Connor> (12:13:23 AM) pcw_home: its in the manual
[20:36:15] <andypugh> I added the ability to flash sserial remotes recently (man setsserial). Admittedly I have only managed to brick cards with it, but Pete says it works some of the time for him :-)
[20:37:24] <andypugh> Let me try another tack with the first question, is anyone willing to preview some G-code for me before I post it to the forum and end up looking stupid?
[20:37:30] <cmorley> ahh yes mode 3, pncconf is not ready to cover different modes yet - it's a big change
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[20:42:41] <cmorley> to be honest, 5i25 support is not really official until linuxcnc carries it in it's repo - and I'm not sure that's gonna happen
[20:43:06] <Connor> Why?
[20:43:51] <andypugh> I guess partly because the 5i25 doesnt use firmware
[20:44:11] <Connor> It doesn't ?
[20:44:16] <cmorley> two fold, the 5i25 doesn't need firmware to work - it already has it, and the linuxcnc firmware repo is way behind in version
[20:46:58] <Connor> you mean 5i25 support in general into linuxcnc or what ?
[20:47:10] <cmorley> Peter has built XML files for pncconf and there are close to working. unfortunately they are different from linuxcnc repo
[20:47:34] <cmorley> no no 5i25 is fully supported in linuxcnc
[20:47:53] <andypugh> In some ways it is a pity that the LinuxCNC repo exists, as it was cereated but never maintained or moreged.
[20:47:57] <cmorley> not officially supported in pncconf
[20:48:38] <Connor> Ah. Yea. I downloaded the xml files from the forum...
[20:48:42] <cmorley> andy: and no documents so some one could work on it
[20:48:59] <cmorley> yes that is my only way to support the 5i25
[20:51:00] <andypugh> I guess you could push the XML to the repository?
[20:51:09] <cmorley> for pncconf I don't need the firmware compiled on the repo - i only need the XML file placed in the firmware file. I just don't know how to add that capability to the repo nor do I know if I even can
[20:53:25] <andypugh> Nght all
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[20:54:03] <cmorley> Anyways pncconf needs some work, but I'm preoccupied with Gscreen at the moment.
[20:54:16] <Connor> so, you need to mod the xml so it shows the MPG for INI16,17 and 18,19
[20:56:30] <jdh> I know a guy that worked at a place that said anytime a person said "you need to..." or "someone should..." it became their responsibility to do so.
[20:56:55] <cmorley> no, it's much more complicated. right now pncconf really has no way to keep track of modes and serial ports, it assumes there is only one of each.
[20:57:13] <cmorley> it doesn't know there are components that are just MPGs
[20:57:43] <Connor> Ah. So, basicly, I'm just going to have to manually do it ?
[20:58:05] <cmorley> and yes it doesn'y know about the difference between the modes, which is not spelled out i the XML, you just have to program the differennces
[20:58:16] <cmorley> yep
[20:58:24] <Jymmm> jdh: Someone should jump around like a chicken!
[20:58:54] <Connor> Not sure I know what you mean by modes yet.. I don't even have a MESA card.. Just doing research for guy who's converting his Arrow 500 to linuxcnc.
[20:59:17] <jdh> with servos?
[21:00:25] <Connor> jdh: Yup.
[21:00:32] <cmorley> modes change what pins are available, mode 0 all digital I/o, mode 1 digital and analog, mode 3 digital,analog,mpgs
[21:01:40] <Connor> and your basicly only dealing with the one connector too.. right? not the 2nd ?
[21:02:09] <cmorley> Pncconf does both conectors
[21:03:02] <cmorley> 77i7x1 is for one 7i77 daughter board and the other connector is digital I/O
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[21:03:53] <Connor> okay. Was trying to figure out how to use it with 7i76 or 7i77 on just the 2nd connector..
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[21:04:22] <Connor> On my system, when I go to mesa.. I have my PC and controllers on a single case.. no need for external cable..
[21:04:40] <jdh> I found something that looked close in pncconf, had it generate the file, then edited everything.
[21:05:43] <jdh> seems like I had to modify some other config's xml file before it would do that.
[21:05:44] <Connor> okay I/O 2 and SmartSerial 0 are internal or external ?
[21:05:48] <cmorley> Connor you could use 7i77x2 and not use the first connector but that seems a waste of pins :)
[21:06:29] <cmorley> smart serial 0 is internal - it's the 7i77
[21:07:00] <Connor> back in just minute.
[21:07:45] <Connor> Okay. I/O connector 2 and I/O connector 3.. db25 and 26 pin headers ?
[21:07:53] <Connor> or the breakouts ?
[21:08:02] <cmorley> yes they are the 5i25
[21:08:44] <Connor> okay. So I/O 2, db25 or 26 pin header ?
[21:08:52] <cmorley> ok i know it's not very clear or intuitive
[21:09:14] <Connor> cmorley: Not knocking you.. Just trying to get it clear in my head for when I need to set it up.
[21:09:14] <cmorley> ahh I can't remember lol :)
[21:12:15] <cmorley> some of the problem is pncconf shows how the components are set up internally. For instance you see the encoders are shown on the 5i25 I/O connector but you actually wire them to the 7i77
[21:12:50] <cmorley> the fact is the encoders ARE on the 5i25 they are just passed though to the 7i77
[21:13:59] <Connor> right. I would reference the BOB to make it easier.. most people aren't going to reference the 5i25 direct, and with that, reference the connector of the 5i25 TOO (just not the pin)
[21:15:08] <cmorley> p3 is the DB25
[21:15:40] <frallzor> how fun, losing steps now.
[21:15:53] <frallzor> what can cause this fun issue? =)
[21:16:41] <cmorley> Connor it's that we are stretching PNCconf to cover the 5i25 which is an odd duck compared to what I started PNCconf for.
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[21:17:37] <cmorley> the connector is referenced P3 - I just couldn't remember which that one was
[21:18:20] <cmorley> if you look at smartserial 1 if mentions TB5
[21:19:09] <cmorley> but yes that actual pin number in pncconf is the component number and you have to look up in the manual to convert it to connector pin number.
[21:20:00] <cmorley> if you push the help button and select the output tab it's supposed to have some more info about that
[21:28:07] <Connor> cmorley: Understood. Like I said, New to mesa stuff.. and pncconf is new too.. so.. just trying to figure it out so I don't look like a idiot in front of this guy when I start configuring it. :)
[21:29:14] <cmorley> lol I hear you. If you select 7i77x2 and click the help page you will see more info for the pin numbers - I guess I didn't make one for 7i77x1
[21:31:12] <frallzor> hmm if you set baser persiod maximum jitter too high (just to be safe) can it cause losing steps of running too fast?
[21:31:16] <frallzor> *base
[21:31:24] <frallzor> *base period even
[21:31:34] <Connor> yes
[21:31:43] <Connor> it can't generate the steps fast enough.
[21:31:46] <frallzor> Guess its whats happening then
[21:31:55] <frallzor> got like 5-6K max in the test
[21:31:57] <Connor> need to lower your max IPM
[21:32:00] <frallzor> set it to 12K
[21:32:14] <frallzor> not that good I assume
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[21:33:06] <Connor> what mobo ?
[21:33:16] <frallzor> some Atom-board
[21:33:23] <Connor> 525d ?
[21:33:23] <frallzor> cant recall modell atm
[21:33:44] <Connor> turn of hyper threading BTW.
[21:33:51] <Connor> err. turn OFF
[21:34:09] <Connor> and I think I'm running 3.5k on mine.
[21:34:37] <frallzor> or no I got like 3-4K on the base maximum test
[21:34:45] <frallzor> but I set it to 12K in the stepconf
[21:34:50] <frallzor> thought I was playing safe
[21:35:02] <frallzor> but it seems now It does more bad than good?
[21:35:03] <Connor> but it at 4 or 5k and be done with it.
[21:35:25] <Connor> too slow, and you limit your top speed. too fast and it can't keep up.
[21:35:40] <frallzor> seems like its that last one happening.
[21:35:55] <frallzor> If I change stepconf, does it reset ini files and hals?
[21:35:59] <frallzor> or just stepconf?
[21:35:59] <Connor> higher the number, the slower it is.. lower the number the faster it is.
[21:36:13] <Connor> both.
[21:36:22] <Connor> you make any custom changes to the ini and hal file ?
[21:36:30] <frallzor> yes
[21:36:41] <frallzor> guess I have to save them so I can fix it later then
[21:36:48] <frallzor> just a single line in the ini though
[21:36:54] <Connor> What *I* do in the past. is copy the original stepconf file and configs as a new name.. make the change, and compare.
[21:37:05] <skunkworks> 12k base period?
[21:37:17] <Connor> I don't recall if it makes other changes or not.
[21:37:24] <Connor> skunkworks: yea. he set it to 12k
[21:37:26] <frallzor> I thought I was playing it safe skunkworks =)
[21:37:46] <frallzor> never realized It could mess things up
[21:38:05] <Connor> it doesn't. you just didn't lower your max IPM down to match it.
[21:38:20] <skunkworks> ah - no. You would probably start at 25us
[21:38:21] <frallzor> Well If I run too fast I does mess up
[21:38:32] <frallzor> *It
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[21:38:44] <Connor> That's what I'm saying. If you lower your max IPM down to match what 12k can support.. then you can't go too fast. :)
[21:39:08] <frallzor> though it seems I can set it lower without being ashamed of it =P
[21:39:22] <Connor> but, to be honest... if you did this through stepconf.. I thought it adjusted the max IPM correctly..
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[21:39:37] <frallzor> it does?
[21:40:15] <frallzor> im sure I have allways seen the same default values which I have changed
[21:42:29] <Connor> jsut change the BASE_PERIOD in you INI file to 4000 and see how it runs.
[21:42:43] <Connor> be sure hyper threading is turned off too.
[21:42:50] <frallzor> will check that
[21:43:37] <Connor> Wonder if a package shipped from Memphis today will make it to Knoxville by tomorrow....
[21:43:49] <Connor> via UPS
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[21:53:57] <frallzor> was actually 7000 base
[21:54:05] <frallzor> servo thread was 3-4k
[21:54:09] <frallzor> set it to 8k
[21:54:30] <tjtr33> hal edm video 100V 7A 98uS on 498uS off controlled by lm339 window comparator sparking out http://videobin.org/+6cj/77s.html
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[21:58:53] <frallzor> HT was off, so no idea on what can be wrong now if loss is still there
[22:05:33] <Connor> Servo should be @ 1000000
[22:05:45] <frallzor> uip
[22:05:48] <frallzor> *yup
[22:05:56] <frallzor> it was
[22:06:10] <Connor> (04:54:05 PM) frallzor: servo thread was 3-4k
[22:06:18] <frallzor> in the latency test that is
[22:06:43] <frallzor> while the base thread yadda yadda was 7k
[22:06:58] <Connor> ok. so set the base to around 4 or 5k and you should be fine.
[22:07:35] <frallzor> set it to 8k, isnt that right if its 7k in the latency test?
[22:08:06] <Connor> seams high for a atom board. you build that machine ?
[22:08:26] <frallzor> not more than hdd and ram
[22:08:40] <frallzor> only "build" there was too it
[22:09:05] <Connor> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813121442
[22:09:08] <Connor> that the board ?
[22:09:27] <frallzor> nah, but similar
[22:09:55] <Connor> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813121596
[22:10:37] <frallzor> nope, is a fan on mine too
[22:10:48] <Connor> if 7k was what you got, then 8k is fine.
[22:10:57] <Connor> I think I have mine around 3.5k
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[22:13:16] <frallzor> I was using 2.3.5 of emc before and just used its config-files for 2.5.x
[22:13:23] <frallzor> wonder if that can mess things up
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[22:13:48] <Connor> I couldn't answer that.. I wouldn't think so.
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[22:14:55] <frallzor> what more can one check?
[22:15:00] <frallzor> acceleration perhaps?
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[22:15:07] <Connor> You still missing steps ?
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[22:15:18] <frallzor> i dont know, took a while to see
[22:15:25] <frallzor> over and hour before I saw it
[22:15:56] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[22:15:56] <Connor> what kind of router / mill is it ?
[22:16:10] <frallzor> MechMate
[22:16:35] <frallzor> with geckodrivers
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[22:16:54] <Connor> Hmm..
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[22:18:01] <Connor> Typically.. missed steps happen when you push it too hard... or you get extra resistance on the screws.. Is it belt drive ?
[22:18:12] <frallzor> rack and pinion
[22:18:28] <Connor> which axis did you loose steps on?
[22:18:39] <frallzor> I think its my Y axis
[22:19:02] <Connor> that the whole carriage ?
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[22:19:10] <Connor> or just the router ?
[22:19:21] <frallzor> just router
[22:19:32] <frallzor> X is the whole shabang
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[22:19:51] <Connor> that's odd.. you can try changing the acceleration..
[22:20:19] <Connor> what wise steppers?
[22:20:37] <Connor> and I don't remember on gecho, but microsteeping ?
[22:21:19] <frallzor> 10 I believe
[22:21:47] <frallzor> steppers are motionking something
[22:22:15] <Connor> gecko has that funky thing where if it sees a bunch of micro's at once, it'll do a full step instead of a bunch of little ones to help maximize that power..
[22:22:23] <Connor> what size?
[22:22:26] <Connor> Oz/in ?
[22:23:17] <Connor> BTW, normally if you base is off, you'll end up with a follow error in linuxcnc.. so, I don't think that was it.
[22:23:49] <frallzor> worked fine when doing the roughing
[22:24:11] <frallzor> but then doing the finnishing pass it was there it started acting
[22:24:13] <Connor> might want to check the dirhold and dirsetup values..
[22:24:14] <frallzor> *when
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[22:24:45] <Connor> where you moving faster? slower?
[22:24:46] <frallzor> theyre setup according to stepfconf
[22:24:49] <Connor> that on the roughing.
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[22:24:54] <Connor> yea, what value?
[22:24:57] <frallzor> set for G203V
[22:25:00] <frallzor> preset
[22:25:20] <Connor> ok
[22:25:27] <frallzor> speed was about the same
[22:25:42] <frallzor> 3-3500mm/min
[22:25:44] <Connor> other possibility is bad g-code.
[22:26:04] <Connor> or, backlash
[22:26:06] <frallzor> nah the code is code, generated in vectric aspire
[22:26:24] <frallzor> no backlash since roughing was fine
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[22:26:36] <frallzor> this was a pretty huge error
[22:26:44] <frallzor> 4-5mm on one side it seemed
[22:27:08] <Connor> what about the other side ?
[22:27:10] <frallzor> or about 1/5"
[22:27:15] <frallzor> it was shifted
[22:27:41] <frallzor> so it was doing final pass 4-5mm + on y-axis
[22:28:02] <Connor> I would slow it down about 10% and try it again and see.
[22:28:11] <Connor> any rapids ?
[22:28:20] <Connor> rapids is where I normally loose steps..
[22:28:32] <frallzor> only between where it machined
[22:28:37] <frallzor> but its no super speed rapids
[22:29:12] <frallzor> where does one set rapids?
[22:29:15] <frallzor> the speed
[22:29:52] <Connor> MAX_LINEAR_VELOCITY
[22:30:14] <Connor> and adjust MAX_FEED_OVERRIDE too..
[22:30:22] <Connor> it's 20% faster than MAX_LINEAR_VELOCITY
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[22:32:38] <frallzor> all written down, ill change that when I wake up and check
[22:32:45] <Connor> k
[22:33:05] <Connor> l8r. time to vegge for a bit.
[22:33:07] <frallzor> but its odd, never hade this big of a loss
[22:33:31] <frallzor> only difference, new install of the live-cd with a newer linuxCNC
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[23:04:12] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: How many sticks of 1/8"x 36" SS Tig Welding rods in a LB typically?
[23:06:52] <JT-Shop> Jymmm: no clue
[23:07:03] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: you dont do tig?
[23:07:21] <JT-Shop> yep
[23:07:35] <Jymmm> yep you do, or yep you dont?
[23:07:48] <r00t4rd3d> UPS just dropped off my new shiny Grubee Skyhawk.
[23:07:51] <r00t4rd3d> :D
[23:08:17] <JT-Shop> yep I TIG weld and my name is ...
[23:08:39] <r00t4rd3d> slim shady?
[23:08:40] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: ok, but you dont do SS ?
[23:08:50] <Jymmm> FLAVOR FLAV!
[23:08:55] <JT-Shop> that's all I TIG is SS
[23:09:09] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: and you dont use 1/8" rods?
[23:09:24] <JT-Shop> nope, time for MIG when you get that big
[23:09:54] <Jymmm> aluminum is tig or mig?
[23:10:34] <JT-Shop> depends on the thickness
[23:10:40] <Jymmm> 1/4" or less
[23:10:45] <r00t4rd3d> I could weld an Eiffel Tower with my wire fed 110v tractor trailer special.
[23:10:48] <tjb1> Hello JT-Shop and Jymmm and r00t4rd3d
[23:10:58] <JT-Shop> hi tjb1
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[23:11:09] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: lets say 1/8" al
[23:11:29] <Jymmm> 1/16 to 1/8
[23:11:37] <JT-Shop> I'd spool gun 1/8"
[23:11:49] <JT-Shop> 1/16" I'd TIG
[23:12:01] <Jymmm> spool gun?
[23:12:02] <r00t4rd3d> http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-ElPaiOM9EDM/TWrhjE0bCII/AAAAAAAAAUE/VKfvqs-LpWI/s1600/bike_dims.jpg
[23:12:04] <JT-Shop> I usually don't use any filler
[23:12:07] <r00t4rd3d> thats sweet
[23:12:26] <JT-Shop> yea, mig with a wire fed spool gun
[23:12:31] <Jymmm> ah
[23:12:42] * Jymmm never welded before
[23:12:48] <JT-Shop> can't feed alum through a long tube
[23:13:45] <Jymmm> I just want the ss for rods, then find someone that can weld the loop closed
[23:13:55] <Jymmm> 1/8" gap
[23:14:18] <JT-Shop> butt welder is what you want
[23:15:12] <Jymmm> It's not a "ring" but more like a sideways "b"
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[23:15:52] <Jymmm> C)_______
[23:16:03] <JT-Shop> I can't envision a sideways "b"
[23:16:32] <JT-Shop> ok like a loop at the end of a straight section
[23:16:42] <Jymmm> hang on, getting video...
[23:16:50] <JT-Shop> like a pinapple pin
[23:17:07] <Jymmm> yeah
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[23:19:37] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: for 30s http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbT9b-iqZa8&feature=player_detailpage#t=313s
[23:20:12] <JT-Shop> a piece of steeel
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[23:21:25] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Here ya go, welding the ring closed http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbT9b-iqZa8&feature=player_detailpage#t=393s
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[23:22:50] <JT-Shop> what does it do?
[23:23:28] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Glorified tent stake, could be used as a skewer, bbq grill
[23:25:15] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: goto the beginning of the video to see it's usage
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[23:32:57] <tjtr33> r00t4rd3d, did you get that tank? i havent been able to get one for over a year now
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[23:34:45] <r00t4rd3d> did you try and buy one from imperial cycles?
[23:34:50] <tjtr33> yep
[23:35:19] <r00t4rd3d> http://imperialcyclesstore.blogspot.com/
[23:36:12] <tjtr33> thx , woof prcie is up, but still the nicest style
[23:36:52] <tjtr33> more than my anglefire and schwinn admiral 700 together
[23:41:44] <r00t4rd3d> tjb1, http://www.sportsmanflyer.com/bikes.html
[23:41:45] <r00t4rd3d> bottom
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[23:43:31] <r00t4rd3d> or this
[23:43:31] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.piratecycles1.com/worksmancycles.html
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[23:46:53] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.piratecycles1.com/pipromiro125.html
[23:47:06] <r00t4rd3d> lol
[23:53:49] <JT-Shop> that sportsmanflyer is neat
[23:54:23] <JT-Shop> I'd want spring seat for $4800