#linuxcnc | Logs for 2013-01-23

[00:00:01] <tjtr33> dang i'm at 50uS already and thats coarse to me ( base 25000 servo 50000 )
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[00:00:18] <Connor> He wanted new ones.. was afraid they were causing some of his issues and they were resolver based not encoder based..
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[00:00:21] <tjtr33> andypugh, doesnt everybody see slopes there?
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[00:01:08] <andypugh> Halscope runs in a thread, so samples fast-thread stuff rather less frequentluy than mr Nyqvist suggests.
[00:01:46] <skunkworks> base thread of 50us?
[00:01:54] <tjtr33> yep
[00:02:13] <tjtr33> will dbl it for nyquist
[00:02:14] <skunkworks> do you get realtime errors?
[00:02:18] <tjtr33> )haalve)
[00:02:25] <tjtr33> nope
[00:02:38] <skunkworks> impressive - are you sure?
[00:02:49] <skunkworks> what is the hardware?
[00:02:52] <andypugh> I suspect what you are seeing are artefacts due to precisely when the inputs to the and2 and the outputs are sampled, relative to the execution instant of the and2.
[00:03:21] <tjtr33> none now, but am sluggish fer sure, old dell p4
[00:03:28] <andypugh> Bear in mind that all HAL functions run in turn. I am not sure where Halscope is in that sequence.
[00:03:52] <Connor> Hmm.. Digital or Analog Amp meter for Spindle Load...
[00:03:57] <tjtr33> i want to try dbling the periods, bbl
[00:03:59] <Connor> and, put it on the AC or DC side...
[00:04:05] <tjtr33> and thanks
[00:04:10] <andypugh> tjtr33: 500,000 would be more usual for a servo thread.
[00:04:39] <skunkworks> I cannot believe that motion and all will run at 50us...
[00:04:57] <skunkworks> unless he is just running hal?
[00:05:56] <skunkworks> pretty basic hal FUNCTION(_) { out = in0 && in1; }
[00:06:15] <Connor> anyone have any thoughts on the amp meter ?
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[00:06:39] <skunkworks> Connor: what kind of spindle?
[00:06:51] <Connor> Treadmill motor.
[00:07:05] <Connor> 1.75HP Continues Dudty
[00:07:21] <Connor> call pull around 16 amps on the DC side.
[00:08:01] <Connor> Trying to figure out if I want analog, or digital, and if I want it on the DC or AC side..
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[00:09:30] <skunkworks> ac side would be easire...
[00:09:32] <skunkworks> easier
[00:09:45] <Connor> http://www.lightobject.com/Analog-Meter-C32.aspx
[00:09:53] <Connor> http://www.lightobject.com/Digital-Panel-Meter-C21.aspx
[00:10:07] <Connor> looking at the 20 or 30 amp meters..
[00:10:11] <skunkworks> few turns and a few turns to an analog meter...
[00:10:35] <Connor> huh?
[00:10:38] <andypugh> Actual physical meters? How quaint!
[00:11:25] <skunkworks> oh - or buy an actual current meter... ;)
[00:11:28] <tjtr33> skunkworks, its running axis, its running a stepper machine, i dont have a video but could upload a screen capture with gtkrecordmydesktop
[00:11:49] <andypugh> Connor: The meters are cheap, but how much is the 30A shunt?
[00:12:05] <tjtr33> andypugh, its way diff at 50000 and 10000, looks like a real and gate now
[00:12:33] <Connor> http://www.lightobject.com/Electronics-C13.aspx
[00:12:34] <Nick001-Shop> Hooking up a differential glass scale - can I leave A/,B/and I/ disconnected or do I have to use a single ended converter to hook up to linuxcnc
[00:13:03] <skunkworks> tjtr33: that is impressive - are you sure you don't get 1 realtime error on load of axis?
[00:13:15] <Connor> Only seeing 20Amps.. which is fine.. 6.5 for a 20A 75mV DC Shunt.
[00:13:25] <Connor> not sure I get the Voltage though.. How does that work...
[00:14:26] <andypugh> All those meters are 75mV full-scale. They are selling them purely on the front panel marking.
[00:14:56] <Connor> what does that mean?
[00:14:57] <andypugh> The shunts create 75mV at rated current.
[00:15:22] <tjtr33> http://imagebin.org/243871
[00:15:53] <Connor> and do you use a shunt with analog ones ?
[00:16:13] <tjtr33> skunkworks, they do occur, none while we've spoken, its just a box i use to test, i have one of those atoms in safekeeping
[00:16:39] <andypugh> Connor: All those meters are identical 75mV voltmeters, with different markings on the front. You need to set them up with a shunt so that there is 75mV on the terminals at the displayed value.
[00:17:26] <Connor> ah. okay, so the shunt takes the 0-90v, and converts it to 75mV
[00:17:32] <tjtr33> usually rated at 50mV = N amperes
[00:17:33] <Connor> with the correct amparage.
[00:18:21] <Connor> I've never used shunts before...
[00:18:42] <Connor> never really hooked up a amp meter before.. Just normally use my Multimeter..
[00:18:42] <andypugh> tjtr33: I was basing the 75mV on the web page, I don't know if it is true. I was at school the last time I set up a moving-needle meter.
[00:19:29] <tjtr33> :) i got a few on the bench here, the and2 gate was part of a 75 amp EDSM pulse generator, thus need for speed
[00:19:30] <andypugh> Well, basically you don't pass 30A through the tiny coil in the meter :-)
[00:20:05] <andypugh> Your 30A passes through the shunt, and the meter measures the voltage drop accross that.
[00:20:21] <andypugh> V = IR and all that.
[00:20:32] <andypugh> (And time to sleep)
[00:20:41] <tjtr33> gnite & thx
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[00:32:47] <Jymmm> roycroft: heh heh heh... before I even got out of my car I could se the tires were cracked =)
[00:33:14] <Jymmm> He wasnt there, but probably a good thing =)
[00:33:53] <r00t4rd3d> I am not leaving my house tomorrow at all
[00:35:34] <Jymmm> The world will be a safer place tomorrow.
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[01:13:06] <r00t4rd3d> ReadError, print this for me plz : http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:43655
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[01:26:26] <r00t4rd3d> I could do it on my router but it would take 9 slices of the main goggles to make the piece
[01:26:41] <r00t4rd3d> 9 slices 3/4 thick
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[01:46:37] <ReadError> ;)
[01:48:31] <r00t4rd3d> Ill make you somethin
[01:48:35] <r00t4rd3d> on my router
[01:48:50] <ReadError> i can try this weekend (thursday)
[01:48:59] <r00t4rd3d> can you print nice parts?
[01:49:02] <r00t4rd3d> clean
[01:49:12] <ReadError> does a bear crap in the woods?
[01:49:22] <r00t4rd3d> sometimes in the street
[01:49:35] <ReadError> well there ya go
[01:50:31] <r00t4rd3d> I dont need the iphone plate if you look at the files
[01:50:35] <r00t4rd3d> just the Nexus 7
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[01:52:40] <r00t4rd3d> I been debating to ask in #reprap for a price on that
[01:55:10] <r00t4rd3d> i need to build a 3d printer so I got something to use inside during the winter
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[02:29:00] <jdh> anyone ever repaired a read window defogger tab?
[02:29:50] <Jymmm> jdh: I'm thinking silicon and solder
[02:30:14] <Jymmm> and lots of flux
[02:30:33] <jdh> silicon?
[02:30:47] <pcw_home> conductive epoxy?
[02:30:49] <jdh> I was thinking solderpaste and heat
[02:30:51] <Jymmm> Yeah, yo hold the tab to the the glass securely
[02:31:05] <jdh> but, the heat might not be good for the glass
[02:31:08] <tjb1> silicone jymmm
[02:31:19] <cradek> jdh: have you asked a window/windshield repair shop?
[02:31:30] <Jymmm> dont thermal shock the glass
[02:31:40] <jdh> cradek: no.
[02:31:58] <jdh> just google and amazon
[02:32:05] <cradek> jdh: I'm a huge do-it-yourselfer of course, but I'd do that...
[02:32:07] <jdh> $35 kit for tab repair
[02:32:14] <Jymmm> jdh: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Zo57lUSnUo
[02:32:38] <skunkworks> anyone replaced the ipad glass?
[02:32:42] <jdh> heh... that looks like my car
[02:33:24] <jdh> wonder how hot that iron is
[02:33:46] <Jymmm> looks like a 60W iron
[02:34:15] <jdh> I'll call a windshield place first.
[02:34:45] <Jymmm> jdh: Once soldered, I'd then silicone it in place, it'll never virbate loose again
[02:35:14] <Jymmm> test first of course
[02:35:17] <jdh> I think something caught it when I opened the glass and ripped it off
[02:35:23] <Jymmm> then silicon =)
[02:35:52] <Jymmm> jdh: the cord should came off first I'd hope
[02:36:10] <jdh> the tab is firmly attached to tab.
[02:36:14] <jdh> cord
[02:37:31] <Jymmm> When I used to install on-glass antennas, that's what we used... never ever did one ever come off on it's own =)
[02:38:04] <jdh> smear the silicone over the top of the tab?
[02:38:11] <Jymmm> yeah
[02:38:49] <Jymmm> jdh: about the size of a quarter, maybe 1/8" thick
[02:40:19] <Jymmm> MY car, the cord will come free of the tab though.
[02:43:25] <Valen> the conductive bit came off the glass itself Jymmm
[02:43:42] <Jymmm> the foil?
[02:43:45] <jdh> I didn't check the glass to see what was left.
[02:45:10] <jdh> I can start my car from the bedroom with the key fob. The defogger/defroster/wtf comes on if needed (and the seat heaters). Makes it easier/safer to back out of the driveway.
[02:45:30] <Jymmm> jdh: also, pre-tinning is never a bad thing whenever possible.
[02:46:28] <jdh> I'll have to look. The windshield shop or $35 kit might be worthwhile.
[02:46:53] <Jymmm> good luck
[02:53:56] <tjb1> r00t4rd3d: what good is that stereoscopic viewer?
[02:54:14] <ReadError> hey yall
[02:54:45] <ReadError> is there a HAL plugin which i could use to fire off a solenoid at certain interval
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[02:56:27] <jdh> classicladder timer might be suitable.
[02:56:45] <ReadError> i wanted to fire off a blast of air
[02:57:02] <ReadError> i think it could be pretty easy to write something if not
[03:00:34] <r00t4rd3d> tjb1, lots of possibilities. Gyro controlled games for one.
[03:00:54] <r00t4rd3d> look around in FPS
[03:03:31] <r00t4rd3d> who can create me this graphic? white bg, black lettering: http://i.imgur.com/bwD4sad.jpg
[03:04:35] <tjb1> follow your bliss?
[03:06:26] <r00t4rd3d> yeah
[03:08:17] <r00t4rd3d> http://thepressure.org/#item=follow-your-bliss-table
[03:08:21] <r00t4rd3d> i wanna make that
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[03:12:35] <tjb1> make it yourself
[03:12:38] <tjb1> stop bein lazy
[03:12:39] <tjb1> :P
[03:13:00] <tjb1> thats a pretty easy trace/raster2vector
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[03:54:25] <r00t4rd3d> well then get tracing ez boy
[03:55:21] <r00t4rd3d> I am sure I could do it but I am also sure there is someone who could do it faster then me :)
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[04:05:53] <Tecan> https://secure.flickr.com/photos/kintel/2894040040/
[04:05:55] <Tecan> lol
[04:06:08] <Tecan> someone posted on efnet
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[04:21:11] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2013/01/time_warner_cable_bans_guns_ads.html#incart_river_default
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[05:05:01] <Gene346> Yo conner!
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[05:07:20] <tjb1> can you impose a line from a feature in solidworks?
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[05:12:17] <Gene346> Anyone seen a Grizzly G0720R vs G0755
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[05:25:24] <Gene346> anyone here work for Grizzly?
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[05:27:33] <toner> http://vimeo.com/56804235 neat
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[06:20:28] <Tecan> how much is too much latency for a hardware driver ?
[06:21:08] <Tecan> rather communication between machine and emc
[06:22:28] <Tecan> cnc to emc
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[06:39:44] <Tecan> tjb1... when you asked if there was a problem jymmm the other day how did you make that fon t ?
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[06:43:43] <Tecan> telnet
[06:46:37] <mrsun> omg i got the ip for your rooter! now im gonna hack yo!
[06:46:40] <mrsun> ;)
[06:54:56] <Tecan> gcc main.cpp -z execstack
[06:55:41] <Tecan> ./a.out 99999999 dbus.xhcat.mrsun
[06:56:44] <Tecan> actually thats my wr703n thingi
[06:56:53] <Tecan> trying to setup a repeater
[06:56:59] <Tecan> adhoc
[06:57:13] <archivist> tjb1, "impose a line" ?
[06:57:14] <Tecan> wanna test some milliseconds out
[06:58:18] <archivist> tjb1, you can use features as references in later sketches and mates
[07:05:09] <Tecan> http://staff.aist.go.jp/y.oiwa/FailSafeC/index-en.html lol this is what i need
[07:09:40] <Jymmm> Tecan: ?
[07:09:50] <Jymmm> font?
[07:13:15] <Tecan> J̣̤̲̟͇̳͈̎̃̀͛̏́̀ͣ͘ͅy̛̬̭̮̲̱͔ͩ͘m̖̬̝̙̤̄͗̿̕m̼̗̟̞̬̥̿͛͘͜m̈́͛̎͋̇̏́̚͝҉͇͓̹̰̙̜̥̘̯,̗̫̙̥͉̭̭͉̋͠ ̥͎̤̱͇̇̾ͭͤ̾ͦͯ́̀ͅi̧̭̗̬ͪͥ̌ͯ̅ͦͥš͍̖͙͊̏̕ ̱̺͈̳͙̍ͯ̏̇ͦͩ̓͡t̬̦͍̟̫̫̘͉̃͗̽͊͆̓͗ͯ͡h̸͍ͩ̇̔͞e̮̻̙̘̭ͮ̎̎ͣ̆͛̅̒̾ͅr͎ͫͭ͗̐e̖̙̟̜̭͚͇̻ͨ̐͗̐ͥ͑̾͘ ̴͔͙͖̮̟̰͍̠̒͋̊̍̚̕͡a͓͕̦̹̟̰̯̔ͧ̾̿̋ͦp̫̭̞̲̒̍͐̊͊r͐
[07:13:16] <Tecan> ̖̭͔̥ͭ̕p̫̭̞̲̒̍͐̊͊r̖̭͔̥͐ͭ̕ơ̬̠͙̟͐̿̑ͣͪͨ̐͐b͉͙̭͛ͨ̎́̇̉̀͠l̶͎̥̺͍̬̊ͧ̐͞ḛ͑̓̌̅͌̓m̫͓͇̼̮͓͉̱̈̇͢͟͡?̞͕̭̥͛̾͋̀̐̑͊ͩ
[07:13:53] <Tecan> its got like a ton of shit in there for extra chars
[07:14:10] <Tecan> i didnt even know it was possible to have font stack vertically
[07:14:56] <Tecan> http://tinyurl.com/b7vypmz
[07:15:01] <Tecan> for better looking
[07:15:34] <Tecan> rather neat
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[08:01:49] <DJ9DJ> moin
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[10:18:22] <Tecan> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/161053/c-which-is-faster-stack-allocation-or-heap-allocation
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[10:45:18] <TekniQue> Tecan: yep, and good answers as usual on stack overflow
[10:46:00] <Tecan> yep neat stuff
[10:50:33] <Tecan> using heap is good for lots of small shortlived things like particles or very large things
[10:51:07] <TekniQue> nah heap is better for long lived large things
[10:51:07] <Tecan> otherwise use stack its faster and less prone to fragmenting
[10:51:35] <TekniQue> because it has lots of space available but comes with an allocation time penalty
[10:51:43] <TekniQue> allocation and deallocation take time
[10:52:02] <TekniQue> stack has limited space so it's bad for large objects
[10:52:12] <TekniQue> but it's very fast to allocate
[10:52:46] <TekniQue> but has no way of dynamically deallocating because it is a stack
[10:53:13] <TekniQue> deallocation has to be done in reverse order of allocation
[10:53:30] <Tecan> ty for the input
[10:53:37] <Tecan> love irc
[10:53:55] <TekniQue> stack is what's used in a program when you declare a variable inside a function
[10:54:02] <TekniQue> as part of the function
[10:54:12] <TekniQue> int c; goes on the stack
[10:54:26] <TekniQue> and it's all deallocated once the function returns
[10:54:31] <Tecan> yeah to make it go into the heap you'd have to write a memory manager and overload the new function
[10:54:48] <Tecan> or just new something
[10:54:59] <TekniQue> every function call incurs a stack allocation
[10:55:18] <Tecan> hmmmm
[10:55:36] <TekniQue> with the parameters passed to the function and a pointer saying where to return
[10:56:06] <Tecan> so the whole main program is not allocated on the heap just main ?
[10:56:20] <Tecan> i gotta read more
[10:56:27] <Tecan> ;)
[10:56:32] <Tecan> bbiab
[10:58:20] <TekniQue> like I said, every function allocates from the stack
[10:59:46] <TekniQue> but the stack is just a regular block of memory
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[11:23:26] <Tecan> cpufreq-info neat little tool to see how much users push their systems
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[11:36:32] <Tecan> you guys tried out AutoKey for linux ?
[11:37:05] <Tecan> its dam handy but i cought it eating its whole thread resources the otherday looking for keypresses... something musta went amuck
[11:39:21] <p0g0> Tecan: is that a keyboard macro processor?
[11:39:45] <Tecan> yes
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[11:40:03] <p0g0> for GUI and CLI?
[11:40:08] <Tecan> gui
[11:40:21] <Tecan> duno about the latter
[11:40:30] <p0g0> anyone remember Borland's Superkey?
[11:40:39] <p0g0> 1985-ish
[11:40:44] <p0g0> very handy
[11:42:24] <Tecan> "Controlling a laser with Linux is crazy, but everyone in this room is crazy in his own way. So if you want to use Linux to control an industrial welding laser, I have no problem with your using PREEMPT_RT." -- Linus Torvalds
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[11:44:14] <nevyn> I'm trying to test linuxcnc with the -rt kernel patches (as I was already running them) but latency-test doesn't seem to change the priority of the spawned test threads to realtime
[11:44:47] <nevyn> so the current numbers I'm getting are... underwhelming.
[11:45:02] <Tecan> nevyn why not just use the iso ?
[11:45:17] <Tecan> its ready to rip
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[11:45:23] <Tecan> or cut be it
[11:46:19] <nevyn> Tecan: because my laptop is already configured for realtime and tested with the -rt patches (I use it with jack)
[11:46:56] <archivist> nevyn, some interrupt or some dma may already have stolen the bus
[11:47:39] <psha[work]> nevyn: lack of permissions?
[11:47:39] <nevyn> archivist: so the problem I'm having is configuring linuxcnc and latency-test to use -rt
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[11:48:11] <nevyn> in that it needs to configure the rt threads as sched_FIFO with some priority.
[11:48:29] <archivist> and are you using the recent linuxcnc version or what
[11:48:34] <nevyn> git.
[11:49:28] <nevyn> tho I was somewhat unclear as to whether the branch for rt had been merged or not.
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[11:49:49] <Tecan> fopen("/sys/kernel/realtime","r"))
[11:50:52] <archivist> not sure the main git repo covers rt I think you should be using mhaberlers repo
[11:51:19] <nevyn> yep looks that way
[11:51:31] <nevyn> as git grep kernel/realtime returns nothing
[11:51:49] <mhaberler> what are you looking for ?
[11:51:50] <Tecan> same here
[11:52:16] <mhaberler> nevyn - any build questions?
[11:52:19] <Tecan> my linuxcnc box is not up atm tho im using lowlatency ubu
[11:53:21] <mhaberler> re merge: both rtos-integration-preview3 and rtos-integration-preview3-merged-into-master have support for Xenomai, RT PREEMPT and posix (sim)
[11:54:03] <mhaberler> the git.linuxcnc.org repo has none of that, pending build infrastructure support
[11:54:46] <Tecan> that sounds like alot of hardwork on your part
[11:54:59] <Tecan> you must be part machine to be able to do that
[11:55:04] <nevyn> mhaberler: :(
[11:55:16] <mhaberler> doable by humans (note plural)
[11:55:22] <mhaberler> several folks involved
[11:55:27] <Tecan> ;)
[11:55:32] <archivist> testing needed
[11:55:37] <mhaberler> so what was the issue again?
[11:55:57] <mhaberler> read back but cant tell
[11:56:03] <nevyn> mhaberler: so the big question is answered
[11:56:08] <nevyn> I've built the wrong branch ;)
[11:56:15] <Tecan> hehe
[11:56:17] <nevyn> mhaberler: the other questions I have are...
[11:56:46] <nevyn> It's not clear from the wiki if Xenomai is required to use PREEMPT_RT
[11:56:53] <mhaberler> no, it is not
[11:56:54] <nevyn> or if they're alternatives
[11:57:06] <psha[work]> alternatives
[11:57:12] <mhaberler> alternatives; in a few weeks they be runtime alternatives
[11:57:48] <mhaberler> same build for xenomai, rt-preempt, posix/sim - with autodetection; thats in the works but wont affect functionality or performance
[11:57:57] <nevyn> mhaberler: so of rtos-integration-preview3 and rtos-integration-preview3-merged-into-master what would be the reccomendation
[11:58:06] <mhaberler> yes
[11:58:15] <nevyn> mhaberler: "merged into master" is misleading ;)
[11:58:23] <mhaberler> depending if you prefer v2.5_branch or master
[11:58:28] <mhaberler> propose a name?
[11:58:53] <Tecan> unicnc
[11:59:12] <nevyn> mhaberler: "to be mainlined" "for master"
[11:59:13] <mhaberler> I'll tag it 'washer+dryer'
[11:59:19] <Tecan> :)
[11:59:30] <nevyn> in that "merged into master" suggest it's been done.
[11:59:46] <nevyn> and that the contents of this topic branch is now in mainline.
[12:00:13] <mhaberler> a short look at the commit history will fix that perception ;)
[12:01:52] <nevyn> so the difference between preview3 and preview3-merged-into-master is one is tracking 2.5 release and one is tracking master?
[12:01:57] <mhaberler> yes
[12:02:18] <mhaberler> I havent rebased in a while though
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[12:03:19] <nevyn> so we ... (melbourne hackerspace) are building a trivial 2d plotter using linuxcnc and a arduino offload board ...
[12:03:20] <mhaberler> hm, actually Dec 20 for v2.5_branch, not so bad
[12:03:38] <mhaberler> it is a good idea to offload an arduino ;)
[12:03:41] <nevyn> it's this years project for the arduino miniconf.
[12:04:17] <nevyn> https://github.com/CCHS-Melbourne/HackCNC/tree/master/Docs
[12:04:20] <mhaberler> what exactly does the arduino buy in this setup?
[12:04:22] <nevyn> has the overview
[12:04:23] <mhaberler> ah
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[12:04:51] <nevyn> mhaberler: it's an interface for the stepper drivers
[12:05:32] <mhaberler> so its a commanded position interface?
[12:06:13] <mhaberler> I'd think the USB link will introduce lots of position noise
[12:07:16] <mhaberler> I get the idea, and that's where I want to go with this ARM board stuff, but your interface is at the wrong layer - too low, too time critical
[12:07:53] <Tecan> mhaberler i cant find your repo
[12:08:16] <mhaberler> git.mah.priv.at
[12:08:31] <Tecan> heh it worked
[12:08:43] <mhaberler> git://git.mah.priv.at/emc2-dev.git
[12:09:03] <nevyn> mhaberler: it's not that smart.
[12:09:18] <mhaberler> try this: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?NewRTInstall
[12:10:04] <mhaberler> it will work in principle, but the timing will be lousy
[12:10:06] <nevyn> ok so I found AND in that first sentance confusing...
[12:11:33] <mhaberler> My goal is to cut between UI/task/interp and hal/motion and introduce a messaging layer; the second part would be perfect for these arm boards; the first part - soso; arduinos dont cut it for motion/HAL - too limited
[12:12:43] <nevyn> so you offload accel curves and everything to the arm?
[12:12:59] <nevyn> and send "go here"
[12:13:01] <mhaberler> it is already there
[12:13:21] <mhaberler> yes, that would be the idea, it's the motion/task interface; it just has no public API atm
[12:13:50] <mhaberler> 'go here' is time insensitive as long as you dont underrun the queue
[12:14:03] <nevyn> hrm.
[12:14:09] <nevyn> curves?
[12:14:24] <mhaberler> thats all in place, see the task/motion interface
[12:14:34] <nevyn> ok.
[12:14:43] <mhaberler> (it is one of the worst pieces of code in all of linuxcnc)
[12:14:50] <nevyn> eeek
[12:15:32] <mhaberler> that was very polite
[12:15:34] <mhaberler> http://git.mah.priv.at/gitweb/emc2-dev.git/blob/4a5c53ed6d8d8b7f9ee83d5cd2c0b67a4f855352:/src/emc/motion/usrmotintf.h, http://git.mah.priv.at/gitweb/emc2-dev.git/blob/4a5c53ed6d8d8b7f9ee83d5cd2c0b67a4f855352:/src/emc/motion/usrmotintf.cc
[12:15:54] <nevyn> is there a make dist ?
[12:16:03] <mhaberler> a what?
[12:16:15] <mhaberler> you mean a package build?
[12:16:21] <nevyn> no.
[12:16:37] <nevyn> a make mrproper (return source to "pristine")
[12:17:11] <mhaberler> at make level: make clean; at git level: git clean -xdf (and there go all the files you didnt add)
[12:17:29] <mhaberler> not sure, see src/Makefile
[12:17:29] <nevyn> oh the git clean I didn't know about thanks!
[12:17:48] <mhaberler> watch out, this cleans up _very_ thoroughly
[12:18:17] <mhaberler> it essentially restores the status of HEAD and nothing else
[12:18:19] <nevyn> so build a tree and run git status.
[12:18:27] <nevyn> and you have all the cat's and manpages and stuff
[12:18:47] <nevyn> and they're not in .gitignore (maybe they should be) maybe not...
[12:18:52] <mhaberler> was that a question?
[12:19:04] <nevyn> more an observation.
[12:19:45] <mhaberler> well, the linuxcnc build system needs a whole army of competent engineers, and we're happy to sign you up on the task ;)
[12:20:03] <nevyn> :)
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[12:28:15] <nevyn> mhaberler: is --with-realtime=linux required as per http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Debian_Wheezy_Linux-Rt_Compile_LinuxCNC ?
[12:28:23] <mhaberler> no
[12:29:03] <mhaberler> just './configure' and it will default to the running kernel
[12:29:09] <nevyn> excellent!
[12:30:24] <mhaberler> I see, that wiki entry is a tad outdated - sorry
[12:30:45] <nevyn> no appologies required. just glad to be able to clarify things. ;)
[12:39:23] <r00t4rd3d> holy freezing balls
[12:39:26] <jthornton> I didn't even know we had tabs http://imagebin.org/243919
[12:39:47] <r00t4rd3d> -12F
[12:39:47] <r00t4rd3d> Sunny
[12:41:51] <Loetmichel> r00t4rd3d: thats a BIT cold...
[12:44:19] <Loetmichel> over here it is only -4°C... but the idea to walk the 20 min from doc to Pharmacy to get the drugs for the inflamed middle ear wothout an ear muff wasnt the greatest... still hurting... :-(
[12:44:44] <Loetmichel> ... and i was at the doc some 4 hrs ago
[12:45:15] <nevyn> hrm so I've built the right branch this time and run sudo make setuid
[12:45:25] <nevyn> but rtapp is still running SCHED_OTHER
[12:48:12] <nevyn> when running latency-test
[12:57:48] <mhaberler> I have no idea about SCHED_OTHER; post on the list please
[12:57:55] <mhaberler> what does the latency-test say?
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[12:59:09] <nevyn> mhaberler: nothing good..
[12:59:40] <mhaberler> please look at config.log - it should say for which thread style it build - does it say 'looks like a RT_PREEMPT configuration' ?
[12:59:41] <nevyn> mhaberler: 1751473 768686
[12:59:58] <mhaberler> that aint RT PREEMPT
[13:00:12] <nevyn> yep
[13:00:23] <mhaberler> --> config.log - have a close look. what does the top line of 'git log' say?
[13:01:00] <mhaberler> please pastebin config.log
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[13:01:22] <nevyn> sure
[13:01:59] <nevyn> http://paste.debian.net/227834/
[13:04:53] <mhaberler> first line of 'git log' please
[13:05:33] <nevyn> nevyn@cetacea:~/repos/linuxcnc/src$ git log|head -1
[13:05:33] <nevyn> commit 4b8dcbc9d0ed560bd9ca739efb01276462b260ff
[13:06:07] <mhaberler> which branch is this?
[13:06:30] <mhaberler> oh I see
[13:06:37] <mhaberler> -merged-into.. etc
[13:06:57] <mhaberler> and what type of machine, a laptop?
[13:07:03] <nevyn> yes....
[13:07:24] <mhaberler> sorry, we dont subsume laptops under 'realtime capable' over here, this is a waste of time
[13:07:40] <mhaberler> find some other PC - this wont get you anywhere
[13:08:10] <mhaberler> really - you're just in for endless pain with ths
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[13:08:40] <archivist> nevyn, there is hardware power saving that gets in the way
[13:08:42] <nevyn> so the kernel rt bit isn't new.
[13:08:43] <mhaberler> built test - fine; timing figures tend to be outlandish
[13:09:05] <Tecan> the linuxcnc axiom
[13:09:30] <nevyn> the problem for me.. is that I can't see a thread that's marked anything other than SCHED_OTHER (not realtime)
[13:10:06] <nevyn> and AIUI rtapi_app SHOULD be SCHED_FIFI with some sane PRIO
[13:10:19] <mhaberler> please: summarize findings, and post on emc-developers - the folks which know about this dont hang out here
[13:11:04] <nevyn> archivist: so I've done the dance of tweaking that stuff for doing audio already.
[13:11:32] <mhaberler> audio is for whimps ;)
[13:11:44] <nevyn> :-P
[13:11:53] <mhaberler> measly buffering tricks
[13:11:55] <archivist> audio and holding a bit in the buffer is not hardware control
[13:12:08] <nevyn> yes we're talking 10's of ms rather than 1 I do see.
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[13:13:34] <Loetmichel> *HRRRMP* I shgould have bought a 2.5mm Drill bit for the mill... the milldrilling with a 2mm 2-fute takes its time... 3/5 sheets done... -> http://youtu.be/BXNhsid6PD0
[13:22:57] <nevyn> hrm...
[13:25:59] <Tecan> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/09/Operation_Crossroads_Baker_Edit.jpg
[13:26:37] <mhaberler> hm, looks like a botched build
[13:27:23] <ReadError> anyone ever cut magnesium sheet?
[13:27:57] <mhaberler> this is very similar: trying to buy a Vienna subway ticket.. rings a bell? http://mah.priv.at/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=35682
[13:30:20] <Tecan> kernel panic :)
[13:31:12] <mhaberler> no, intrusion-secure OS by MS
[13:31:27] <Tecan> http://www.best-coupons-reviews.com/images/Bsod.jpg
[13:31:58] <Tecan> i remember seeing that screen before
[13:33:09] <Tecan> Goethe, Faust looks like a good read
[13:33:42] <mhaberler> and here we have a sample gdb session: http://mah.priv.at/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=35479
[13:34:02] <Tecan> hehe
[13:34:07] <r00t4rd3d> google makes $929 per second
[13:34:12] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.incomediary.com/20-websites-making-the-most-money
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[14:04:29] <TekniQue> r00t4rd3d: it's interesting to see that Y! is still #5
[14:06:35] <TekniQue> quite a few sites there I have never heard of
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[14:32:44] <mrsun> hmm try to figure out whats wrong with the mill today .. will be fun or something :/
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[14:41:44] <r00t4rd3d> id rather hunt down some blonde swedish girls
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[15:50:00] <IchGuckLive> hi all
[15:51:56] <Tecan> the bikini swimsuit was named after the island in 1946. The two-piece swimsuit was introduced within days of the first nuclear test on the atoll, when the name of the island was in the news.
[15:53:58] <TekniQue> interesting coincidence
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[16:05:10] <IchGuckLive> Tecan: is this a CNC theme O.O
[16:05:25] <Tecan> i might laser some of the pics
[16:05:34] <Tecan> interesting stuff
[16:06:59] <IchGuckLive> Tecan: the BW printings in laser is fabouless also on wood and then polished
[16:07:25] <Tecan> polished with a buffer ?
[16:07:36] <Tecan> or maybe stained then buffed ?
[16:08:34] <IchGuckLive> standard wood polish floos stuff
[16:08:35] <Tecan> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Crossroads_baker_explosion.jpg
[16:09:16] <Tecan> that one musta been underwater
[16:15:35] <Tecan> 1954 film Godzilla, in which the 1954 U.S. nuclear test awakens and mutates the monster, who then attacks Japan before finally being vanquished by Japanese ingenuity.
[16:15:49] <Tecan> thats where that movie came from :)
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[16:29:39] <tjb1> archivist: I mean pull geometry off a feature made in another sketch to use it in the current sketch
[16:30:55] <archivist> tjb1, when you draw a new line hover over the feature it will lock to it
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[16:31:49] <archivist> you can also right click and associate (or mate or something not used for a month or three)
[16:32:46] <archivist> you can also create new parts while in an assembly and thus use features in other parts as references
[16:33:08] <archivist> it is a wonderful toy
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[16:39:34] <tjb1_> Ill have to play some more
[16:39:44] <tjb1_> r00t4rd3d: that torque app sucks, always frozen or something
[16:40:09] <r00t4rd3d> buy the full version captn.hook
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[16:41:12] <r00t4rd3d> fix that garbage bnc you are using too
[16:42:42] <archivist> cardboard wifi I bet
[16:43:07] <tjb1> bnc
[16:43:17] <tjb1> I switched to tethering so I could use tpb
[16:43:25] <tjb1> Im not buying it if it sucks
[16:45:48] <r00t4rd3d> the play store pro version I am sure works fine
[16:45:59] <r00t4rd3d> I havent tried the one i sent you
[16:46:09] <r00t4rd3d> did you get the adapter?
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[16:53:59] <uw> anybody hear of white wolf machining?
[16:54:11] <uw> they make taig/sherline endmill adapters
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[17:05:15] <IchGuckLive> uwthe adapters are the same as on all BOB SubD25
[17:05:50] <uw> BOB subD25?
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[17:06:05] <uw> is that that the threading?
[17:06:37] <IchGuckLive> bo its the optoelektronik adafter for sharline
[17:07:06] <uw> i am confused
[17:07:51] <uw> it says "3/4" x 16 spindle endmill holders"
[17:09:12] <IchGuckLive> ah you looking for the spindel adapter
[17:09:15] <uw> it is pretty much this part but by another person http://www.ebay.com/itm/A2Z-CNC-Steel-End-Mill-Holders-Taig-Mill-w-Hex-Flats-/320994268377?pt=BI_Tool_Work_Holding&hash=item4abcbfd4d9
[17:09:23] <uw> yes
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[17:10:00] <uw> however this white wolf guy is dead or quit the biz or just decided to start scamming everybody
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[17:51:21] <IchGuckLive> hi all B)
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[17:55:57] <mrsun> hmm if spindle is very lose can conventional milling drag the cutter into the material making stuff undersized ?
[17:56:04] <mrsun> cant find any error in movement of tables
[17:56:29] <mrsun> and if i did the results wouldnt be as good as i get in finnish etc as it would not correct itself with lost steps
[17:56:31] <archivist> loose spindle can be bad
[17:56:38] <mrsun> the dovetails i mean of it
[17:56:56] <mrsun> getting about 0.5mm undersized when i mill
[17:57:03] <archivist> is there a lot of chatter
[17:57:05] <mrsun> checked the end mill and its 7.98
[17:57:07] <mrsun> archivist, not realy
[17:57:17] <mrsun> some i guess but not very much
[17:57:35] <mrsun> made a hexagon and in two directions its realy big undersized
[17:58:21] <IchGuckLive> energy chain kable for the encoders what do you use for this
[17:58:37] <archivist> take too much and column twist/bend will cause a few errors
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[17:59:18] <archivist> dti between table and head/spindle to check how rigid the machine is
[17:59:20] <mrsun> archivist, ye but feels like that error should be away from the material
[17:59:27] <mrsun> tho conventional milling pulls the cutter into the material
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[17:59:35] <mrsun> gonna make a test with the same program but climb cutting
[17:59:42] <mrsun> and see if it gets oversized :P
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[17:59:50] <IchGuckLive> im running on 400inch per min the hole day so it hat to be a very flex cable
[18:00:23] <IchGuckLive> mrsun: garbige clamp
[18:00:32] <IchGuckLive> get a holex mount
[18:00:41] <archivist> ?
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[18:03:11] <archivist> mrsun, if your slides are now much tighter and friction is higher, lost steps and backlash problems will show up more
[18:03:53] <archivist> I have had unbalanced weight on the table cause friction problems too
[18:07:05] <mrsun> archivist, ye but lost steps would start to add up
[18:07:27] <mrsun> and as it doesnt "step" anywhere on the piece ven tho i make 10 passes downwards it deosnt feel like that
[18:07:27] <archivist> should add up but....
[18:07:56] <mrsun> but checked the tables now, the X table was a bit tight and the dovetails not straight :/
[18:08:01] <mrsun> so had to losen it up some
[18:08:32] <archivist> couplers coming loose is another thing that bites sometimes
[18:09:26] <archivist> cut a square and a circle and measure too
[18:09:27] <mrsun> still with a cut straight down in 10 increments it should show one one of the sides if im losing position
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[18:12:07] <mrsun> but ye i will do tests =)
[18:13:05] <mrsun> but shouldnt a hexagon be a quite god test? :)
[18:13:12] <mrsun> as you got both straight moves and diagonal moves
[18:14:17] <archivist> a circle shows a transition when there is a backlash problem
[18:14:29] <mrsun> mm
[18:14:40] <mrsun> checked backlashes and have compensation in for it also
[18:14:45] <tjb1> r00t4rd3d: It works on my n7 but not the sg3
[18:14:47] <mrsun> but might have to measure more =)
[18:14:58] <mrsun> maybe take the 0.001mm indicator to get it realy down to the money :P
[18:15:04] <archivist> yes you might :)
[18:15:28] <mrsun> but with the indicator i used it was right on the money ... atleast down to 0.005
[18:16:53] <mrsun> well atleast the parts i did cut isnt totaly destroyed ... just two pieces for a 15mm "key?"
[18:17:04] <mrsun> so even tho their 0.5mm off its not so huge a deal :P
[18:20:43] <archivist> are your backlash fiddles from before the recent gib fixes?
[18:25:21] <mrsun> yes, but the cutting was before that also :P
[18:25:24] <mrsun> so gonna recheck it
[18:25:41] <mrsun> hooked up a digital caliper and looks like on X i got some backlash left
[18:25:59] <mrsun> on Y its righ ton the money no matter how far i move
[18:26:24] <mrsun> that was checked after gib fixes :P
[18:27:32] <archivist> I dont trust backlash comp too much as there is wear too, I rotate on the rotary so I am coming from one direction on x or y usually
[18:28:20] <tjb1> archivist: Is there a video that shows how to do that?
[18:28:28] <tjb1> The tranpose geometry thing
[18:28:50] <tjb1> I know in inventor you could click a button and grab the edge or lines in a solid and bring it to the current sketch
[18:28:57] <mrsun> archivist, nop but kinda the only option i have right now
[18:29:11] <mrsun> do not manage to get it any better with the nut adjustments on the mill
[18:29:52] <archivist> tjb1, you draw a line above a feature it will snap to it
[18:30:11] <tjb1> This wasnt a straight line though, it was an arc that had no areas to snap to
[18:30:13] <mrsun> need to redo the screws also .. my last attempt ended up with off center motor axle to screw :P
[18:30:15] <mrsun> hehe
[18:30:48] <archivist> tjb1, use the right arc type to get a sensible snap
[18:31:22] <tjb1> I wish I had some formal training in solidworks
[18:31:32] <tjb1> seems like everything I do requires 10 extra steps and seems half-asses :P
[18:31:35] <tjb1> assed
[18:31:52] <archivist> tjb1, I have had one day demo, read the help and play
[18:32:49] <archivist> it can be sensible to add axes for construction
[18:33:10] <tjb1> I have to figure out where the add axis button is
[18:33:15] <archivist> usually its trivial to snap to arc centers though
[18:33:20] <tjb1> I can only real do simple drawings and assemblies though
[18:34:13] <archivist> I have modelled a clock and all its gearing, the gear mates are really powerful
[18:43:59] <skunkworks> hmm - are other people having site outages?
[18:44:13] <skunkworks> http://www.hostdime.com/
[18:44:27] <skunkworks> http://www.linuxforum.com/
[18:45:17] <archivist> is today the aaronsw blank your site day
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[19:35:02] <tjb1> Anyone know a command to convert drawings from mm to in?
[19:35:44] <IchGuckLive> Scale
[19:35:53] <skunkworks> scale it .03937?
[19:35:54] <IchGuckLive> 25.4 B) O.O
[19:36:20] <skunkworks> traceroute stops in atlanta....
[19:37:14] <tjb1> I scaled it but didnt know if there was an autocad command
[19:37:21] <IchGuckLive> tjb1: just save the file to inch in qcad
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[19:42:32] <archivist> tjb1, some packages can use both and its just a display option
[19:42:59] <tjb1> Im cheap and use draftsight
[19:43:15] <archivist> no idea on that
[19:43:36] <archivist> read the fm each cad will be different
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[19:57:24] <andypugh> In Inventor you can just type mm or in if you want a dimension to be other than the default for the document.
[19:58:05] <tjb1> I changed the units but it didnt change the drawing…oh well
[19:58:12] <archivist> you can insert either in solidworks
[19:59:19] <andypugh> You probbaly need to edit the dimension style.
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[20:01:33] <tjb1> I need to buy a cad program
[20:01:38] <tjb1> I wont have solidworks after school
[20:01:56] <tjb1> So many to choose from though, I hear alibre is good but I missed the $100 sale
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[20:15:04] <andypugh> There will be another
[20:15:25] <andypugh> Have a fiddle with Inventor Fusion (it's free)
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[20:16:42] <tjb1> I did try it a bit
[20:19:01] <ReadError> solidworks is the only thing that clicked for me
[20:19:51] <archivist> I had a day on solid edge too was easy to play with
[20:23:29] <skunkworks> hmm - this seems like it could be a problem... http://www.internettrafficreport.com/history/295.htm
[20:23:58] <skunkworks> and http://www.internettrafficreport.com/history/120.htm
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[20:35:22] <mrsun> yeah! getting closer
[20:35:30] <mrsun> the dovetails for the Z axis was lose ...
[20:36:02] <mrsun> tightened up the screw adjustments etc and readjusted backlash, but must have missed something on X
[20:37:47] <mrsun> now the parts dimensions are 14.96mm, (what it should be) 14.86mm 14.92mm
[20:37:52] <mrsun> should be 15 all the way around
[20:38:28] <mrsun> but atleast better then 14.5mm on one edge :P
[20:39:06] <mrsun> with some fiddling with it i should be able to get it a bit better, question is .. how high precision can you realy get with a micromill hogging steel ? :)
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[20:43:27] <mrsun> tho its even worse when i think about it, the slot i milled for test with the 8mm endmill was 7.98mm .. so thats another 0.01mm on each side its hogging to much, part should have been oversized if anything!
[20:45:27] <tjb1> skunkworks_: what does that mean?
[20:46:49] <mrsun> 2.58mm WOC and 0.5mm DOC hmm
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[21:35:54] <DJ9DJ> gn8
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[21:49:39] <r00t4rd3d> tjb1, seems like no data is going through the network
[21:49:49] <tjb1> Hmm?
[21:50:32] <r00t4rd3d> tjb1> skunkworks_: what does that mean?
[21:50:52] <tjb1> Oh, I couldnt get the obd2 to work on the sg3
[21:51:01] <tjb1> gonna test is with new settings once I feel like freezing to death
[21:51:06] <r00t4rd3d> doesnt surprise me
[21:51:14] <r00t4rd3d> samsung suck
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[21:52:13] <r00t4rd3d> they let the carriers fuck with the software too much.
[21:54:54] <r00t4rd3d> bluetooth has known issues in 4.2.1 also
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[21:57:06] <r00t4rd3d> did you get any engine sound apps?
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[22:16:33] <Valen> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=RtlYi1yLTVQ
[22:16:45] <Valen> hilarious ESD testing
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[22:46:06] <andypugh> Back to the discussion about temperatures yesterday. My multimeter thermocouple says that my body temp is 39C. I wonder if I shoiuld be concerned?
[22:46:51] <cradek> about your temperature or your thermocouple?
[22:47:13] <andypugh> That's the question, certainly.
[22:47:39] <andypugh> I wonder how accurate the thermocouple is?
[22:55:08] <mrsun> probably not calibrated for body temperature measurment ? :P
[22:55:25] <andypugh> It's a K-type, so I would think not.
[22:55:27] <mrsun> from what i understand thermometers for body is calibrated to measure it
[22:55:45] <mrsun> whacked it into your leg or something? :P
[22:55:50] <mrsun> thinking meat thermometer :P
[22:55:54] <andypugh> Of course, you only measure body temp when feeling ill, and I do.
[22:56:27] <mrsun> chills ? ... clothes moving over body feels like "pain" or something ?
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[22:58:24] <andypugh> I just have a bit of a cold. But it is dragging on. I suspect that a week of effortful skiing at -20 was not a great recuperation strategy.
[22:59:09] <mrsun> haha
[22:59:24] <mrsun> not realy :P
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[23:41:03] <Valen> andypugh: theres a long lasting virus going around at the moment
[23:41:18] <Valen> like a low grade flu but it seems to affect the sinuses
[23:41:46] <Valen> measuring your body temp without a virus is a good plan too, people run at different temperatures
[23:42:00] <Valen> my missus is about 1C warmer than i am normally
[23:50:16] <tjtr33> this morning nevyn ( from oz) showed his hackerspace's work, linuxcnc & arduino (jogging).
[23:50:22] <tjtr33> His overall diagram was done in DIA, but looked UML. I didnt know DIA handled UML, but does, and the idea maybe of use for some documentation.
[23:50:23] <tjtr33> https://live.gnome.org/Dia/UML%20Tutorial/Draft
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