#linuxcnc | Logs for 2013-01-12

[00:02:58] <ReadError> nope
[00:03:04] <ReadError> it has some custom stuff
[00:03:08] <ReadError> let me paste in pastie
[00:04:34] <ReadError> http://pastebin.com/bBG8HYbZ
[00:05:01] <ReadError> but theres no way I can tell that lets the software know where home really is
[00:05:27] <ReadError> so i just commented it out, it alread does Z0.6 which is good enough
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[00:06:36] <andypugh> There are a couple of places that you can define in machine goordinated. G33 is one
[00:07:14] <ReadError> http://pastebin.com/Qzh6wScZ
[00:07:22] <ReadError> thats the "official" emc post processor
[00:08:17] <ReadError> so using that, it basically tries to send the machine to 0,0,0
[00:09:02] <tjtr33> this is C? but interpreted? (homeX, homeY looks like the bugger)
[00:09:27] <ReadError> javascript i think
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[00:10:05] <tjtr33> and they are assigned values by smarter-than-you ( aka stupid) code
[00:10:17] <ReadError> apparently
[00:10:17] <tjtr33> the code is stupid
[00:10:31] <ReadError> lol
[00:10:33] <tjtr33> xyzFormat.format(machineConfiguration.getHomePositionX());
[00:10:34] <andypugh> Do I see G28 on line 1206?
[00:10:38] <tjtr33> chg that ^^^ cfg
[00:11:08] <ReadError> i just commented out the lines
[00:11:19] <ReadError> brings Z up 0.6" which is good enough for me
[00:11:44] <andypugh> I think it might be going to G28: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.4/html/gcode_main.html#sub:G28,-G30:-Return
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[00:12:53] <ReadError> N16800 G0 Z0.6
[00:12:53] <ReadError> N16810 M9
[00:12:53] <ReadError> N16815 G28 G91 Z0.
[00:12:53] <ReadError> N16820 G28 X0. Y0.
[00:12:53] <ReadError> N16825 M30
[00:13:00] <ReadError> thats what it was doing
[00:13:07] <andypugh> Yes, G28.
[00:13:21] <ReadError> so rapid to Z0 ?
[00:13:32] <andypugh> Define your G28 and I think it will be OK
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[00:14:19] <ReadError> theres no where in the postprocessor or configuration to denote that
[00:15:13] <andypugh> It's a machine setting
[00:15:21] <andypugh> See that link I posted
[00:15:37] <tjtr33> in Linuxcnc define g28 http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.4/html/gcode_main.html
[00:15:48] <tjtr33> like andy said
[00:17:30] <tjtr33> we didnt see your gcode, just the postprocesser source
[00:18:58] <ReadError> so is G28 defined within my actual linuxcnc configuration or in each gcode file?
[00:19:22] <andypugh> It is stored in persistent variables in your config
[00:19:48] <andypugh> Jog somewhere safe, MDI a G28.1 and then see what happens
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[00:21:04] <tjtr33> stored in 5161-5166? 6 or 9 parms?
[00:21:52] <tjtr33> eh, an nc program should not rely on external params... thats ... dangerous
[00:22:46] <andypugh> G28 is meant to be the safe position.
[00:22:59] <ReadError> oh neat
[00:23:05] <ReadError> i set G28.1
[00:23:09] <andypugh> The #params are just to set and view the position.
[00:23:14] <ReadError> then moved it, ran G28 and it returned back to that position
[00:23:45] <tjtr33> yeh, i've used similar, but what we saw was, it wasnt really safe, it was 'assumed' safe
[00:24:00] <ReadError> im too absent minded sometimes to remember to set this
[00:24:37] <tjtr33> make your code stand alone then, fix it a the post source
[00:26:28] <ReadError> when i first built my mill, i was like oh this will be easy, draw some stuff, click some buttons and im done
[00:26:32] <ReadError> booooy was i wrong
[00:27:52] <tjtr33> its responsibility, the g28 is ok IF the position is ok ( catch22) and stand alone code is ok. its still big metals and sharp edges following specific commands (pretty unforgiving )
[00:28:04] <andypugh> Well, you _can_ do that. But you get scrap and broken tools. mainly
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[00:32:56] <tjtr33> this is intersting in that post "setWorkPlane(new Vector(0, 0, 0)); // reset working plane" can they tilt the working plane? ( circles outside of g17/18/19)
[00:33:33] <andypugh> I am not sure.
[00:34:05] <tjtr33> doesnt amtter,c ant afford SW anyway :P
[00:34:10] <tjtr33> gnite
[00:34:16] <andypugh> You can certainly rotate X and Y about Z
[00:34:38] <tjtr33> i meant it looked like a normal to a surface
[00:35:07] <tjtr33> thx again
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[00:35:49] <ReadError> bahhh
[00:35:54] <ReadError> even in this version
[00:35:59] <ReadError> holes break gcode
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[00:37:38] <andypugh> Or does G-code break holes?
[00:37:59] <ReadError> something so simple too
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[00:46:37] <ReadError> actually this might be something that can fixed in the post processor
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[00:53:19] <Jymmm> When a fuel pump goes out, will it show a open? (not even a lil resistance?)
[00:55:45] <jdh> depends on failure cause
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[01:02:37] <ReadError> hm ok, so
[01:02:59] <ReadError> it was generating: G80
[01:02:59] <ReadError> Z0.6
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[01:03:08] <ReadError> i changed that to G0 Z0.6
[01:03:11] <ReadError> works that way
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[01:06:14] <andypugh> Jymmm: A fuel pump can fail mechanically but be electrically perfect.
[01:06:44] <Jymmm> andypugh: Well, unless I missed something... I tested the fuel pump from the last connector directly to the battery - nothing, not even a noise. Then I smacked the gas tank with a dead blow hammer while powered directly to the battery - still nothing.
[01:06:51] <ReadError> ahhh, i think i need to do G80 to stop motion, then issue the G0 Z0.6
[01:07:12] <andypugh> G80 cancels canned cycle mode, as far as I know
[01:07:20] <Jymmm> andypugh: I then ohm'ed it out, showing completely open.
[01:07:21] <ReadError> yea
[01:07:43] <ReadError> G80 Cancel Modal Motion
[01:08:37] <andypugh> What sort of pump? The diaphragm pumps will show open until the diaphragm moves back far enough cause the next pulse.
[01:09:19] <Jymmm> andypugh: http://www.autozone.com/autozone/parts/Airtex-Master-Fuel-Pump/2001-Ford-Expedition-2WD/_/N-jfarqZ8vcz2?itemIdentifier=491824_29353_0_4568
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[01:11:50] <andypugh> I think that's a rotary pump. If it shows open-circuit then it's dead.
[01:12:14] <Jymmm> andypugh: Sad thing... KBB Private party sale "Very Good" is only $3500
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[01:12:50] <andypugh> I have no idea what those phrases mean in that sequence
[01:12:54] <Jymmm> andypugh: go ahead, say it....
[01:13:04] <Jymmm> andypugh: you KNOW you want to =)
[01:13:45] <andypugh> I am not sure what sort of "Private Parties" cost $3500
[01:14:02] <Jymmm> vs tradein value (which is always lower)
[01:14:36] <andypugh> Sorry, no, still lost. Is the KBB like the KKK?
[01:15:12] <Jymmm> Kelley Blue Book... A standard used for pricing cars http://kbb.com/
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[01:15:49] <andypugh> Ah, OK, so you are still talking about your car.
[01:16:21] <Jymmm> Yeah, $1100 for them to change the pump, but the car is only worth $3500,
[01:16:33] <andypugh> The most I have ever paid for a car was $350.
[01:16:34] <Jymmm> It's not even a frickin blown engine!
[01:17:32] <andypugh> $1100 to change the pump is insane. I have done it at work in 10 minutes in the carp-ark, because I couldn't be bothered booking the job into the workshop.
[01:18:15] <jdh> in-tank pump?
[01:18:37] <andypugh> Yes
[01:19:46] <andypugh> It helped that there was a velcroed-on panel under the rear seat, that the rear seat was just the foam, with no uphoulstery and not held on in any way.
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[01:20:37] <andypugh> I suppose if they have to drop the rear suspension to get the tank off then it's no fun.
[01:20:37] <ReadError> hey yall, quick question, i seem to have trouble using a 1-2-3 block to get my touchoff for Z perfect
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[01:20:46] <ReadError> lately I have been turning on the mill
[01:20:50] <andypugh> Bit there normally is an access hatch.
[01:21:05] <ReadError> and going down in values of 0.001 until i can see it start to chip
[01:21:15] <ReadError> then going up a little
[01:21:22] <ReadError> is that a viable touchoff method?
[01:21:40] <jdh> get a gauge pin
[01:21:49] <andypugh> How much mechanical hysteresis do you have?
[01:22:57] <ReadError> oh interesting
[01:23:24] <ReadError> me andypugh?
[01:23:41] <andypugh> Yes
[01:24:02] <ReadError> oh im 100% keyboard jockey
[01:24:16] <ReadError> so im basically forced to learn as I go
[01:24:59] <andypugh> If you put a DTI on the head, or the tool. How far do you have to jog back up after jogging down before the needle moves?
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[01:25:32] <ReadError> well im doing backlash compensation on x/y
[01:25:41] <ReadError> but nothing on z, have not measured it TBH
[01:25:42] <andypugh> My machine is 0.05mm, I am hoping I can improve that.
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[01:31:21] <ReadError> ill never be skilled enough to get anywhere near that
[01:32:11] <jdh> my Z is 0.054 but I currently have a delrin ballnut mount
[01:34:06] <Jymmm> andypugh: No suspenion to deal with, just everything else
[01:34:30] <Jymmm> andypugh: I just dont have the tools compressor, air ratchet, jacks, etc to do it
[01:34:52] <Jymmm> andypugh: I might see if there is a access panel, but I doubt it
[01:35:02] <andypugh> You sure there is no access from under the seat?
[01:35:21] <Jymmm> andypugh: I'm going to check in a moment
[01:35:28] <andypugh> If there is a panel, then you can do the job with a full tank
[01:36:05] <Jymmm> I'd have to do it with a full tank anyway, I have no place to put 20Gallons of gas
[01:38:43] <andypugh> You could go shopping. Your US barge probably only does 3mpg
[01:39:08] <jdh> I know a guy that used a 9v battery in series to jump the pump past the dead spot
[01:39:47] <jdh> once a month or so for a year
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[01:45:14] <Jymmm> andypugh: Nope, not unless I grab the angle grinder
[01:45:47] <ReadError> doesnt andy work for ford? ;p
[01:46:01] <Jymmm> jdh: you mean to 21V?
[01:46:56] <Jymmm> jdh: When I ohm'ed it out, it's showing a full open. Not sure if 24VDC would make a difference
[01:47:24] <jdh> dunno. he had a chevy
[01:47:54] <Jymmm> Id be far easier to find a bolt on pump
[01:48:05] <Jymmm> but I dont think they exist
[01:48:22] <Jymmm> min psi 85
[01:48:31] <Jymmm> min gph 40
[01:48:31] <jdh> I had to go pick him up at the gate once. Then he got it fixed.
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[01:53:08] <jdh> submerged for cooling and noise
[01:54:36] <andypugh> Jymmm: If I were you I think I might look quite seriously at the "making an access panel" idea.
[01:54:51] <andypugh> I have a nibbler.
[01:55:13] <Jymmm> andypugh: If I knew EXACTLY where to cut, I would.
[01:56:04] <jdh> is that not googleable?
[01:57:36] <Jymmm> jdh: If it is, my GoogleFu is no good
[01:58:18] <andypugh> Jymmm: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Trick-Flow-High-Flow-Electric-Fuel-Pump-43-GPH-85-PSI-25004P-/370724001947?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item5650df589b
[01:59:36] <Jymmm> andypugh: piggy back it?
[02:00:13] <andypugh> There are more on eBay at 100psi, I didn't try 90psi
[02:00:38] <andypugh> You ought to be able to suck through the existing pumo
[02:01:28] <Jymmm> Yeah, I was thinking that. I even saved the old fuel filter that I could use to cut apart to make fittings to tap into the existing fuel lines
[02:02:10] <andypugh> I am not advocating that course of action.
[02:02:19] <Jymmm> which?
[02:02:23] <andypugh> Any
[02:02:25] <andypugh> :-)
[02:02:32] <Jymmm> yes you are dmanit =)
[02:03:12] <Jymmm> But.... what I can do is disconnected the filter and try to suck from there to see if I get any flow
[02:04:18] <Jymmm> andypugh: can you think of any reason why it wouldn't work?
[02:04:36] <Jymmm> emissions, whatever
[02:04:44] <andypugh> No, none.
[02:05:17] <Jymmm> there is a fuel tank pressure sensor in the tank, but I think an external pump would still trigger that correctly
[02:06:25] <andypugh> It's my job to make sure that the diesel HP pump has enough pressure, but the only reason not to run the pump full-bore is to avoid wasting electrical power.
[02:06:41] <Jymmm> heh
[02:07:02] <Jymmm> I think I can waste a few amps on the laternator
[02:07:05] <Jymmm> alternator
[02:07:28] <andypugh> Ah, no, if the sensor for "enough pressure to crank" is in the tank then an external pump might have a problem.
[02:08:04] <Jymmm> I dont know what it's for, it does goto the PCM
[02:08:36] <Jymmm> just says "Fuel Tank Pressure Sensor"
[02:08:42] <andypugh> We have 800W of heated windscreen and 1000W of cabin heater, plus fans and power steeering, even the 240A alternator is a bit close to the edge.
[02:09:43] <Jymmm> andypugh: fwiw I have the FORD (tm) Wiring Diagram manual
[02:10:07] <Jymmm> now some 3rd party crap
[02:10:10] <Jymmm> not
[02:13:54] <skunkworks> andypugh: did you try your hex yet?
[02:15:32] <jdh> I paid like $250 for fuel pump replacement in a suburban with a 40 gallon tank
[02:18:24] <andypugh> skunkworks: Not yet. It's an 8.45mm hex. Exactly right for the job (mid-point between the shaft and the thread root. I stopped working in round numbers a long time ago, and my designs got better.
[02:19:31] <andypugh> I have a 14.75mm x 0.9mm pitch thread somewhere, to exactly split a differnce.
[02:20:25] <Connor> FRACK! My KBCC-125 has a issue..
[02:20:42] <Connor> I think on of the terminals on the speed control POT grounded out... now it just wants to run a FULL speed...
[02:20:48] <Connor> anyone seen that before?
[02:20:52] <andypugh> I am considering making the nut a different pitch to the thread, by just enough to be self-locking.
[02:21:03] <andypugh> Connor: Yes
[02:21:19] <Connor> What did I burn out on the controller ?
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[02:21:34] <andypugh> In my case the motor shed a commutator segment and killed the controller
[02:22:13] <Connor> I'm pretty sure in this case it was caused by a short to the speed control pot..
[02:22:23] <jdh> that sucks.
[02:22:37] <Connor> I had it setting on the mill with the pot just dangling..
[02:22:42] <Connor> I think it touched my vise.
[02:23:03] <Connor> I had it unplugged.. and when I plugged it up.. poof.. and then it started running full speed.
[02:24:28] <ReadError> im kinda torn about using cutting oil with my setup
[02:24:33] <ReadError> it seems to hold the chips in
[02:24:48] <ReadError> where as the vacuum atleast removes them
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[02:25:01] <ReadError> i need one of those cooling setups i suppose
[02:25:11] <jdh> heat goes with the chips
[02:25:58] <jdh> connor: there's a $60 225R on ebay
[02:26:19] <andypugh> Gene keeps mentiioning a HexFet. I just gave up, I fitted a 3-phase motor and VFD: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47y6RgAK--8
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[02:32:16] <Connor> jdh: That's the 220v model.
[02:32:20] <ReadError> jdh, well ideally one of those flood tables would be nice
[02:32:28] <ReadError> but i can see myself making a huge mess
[02:33:47] <Connor> HexFet ?
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[02:34:07] <andypugh> It's a word. I don't know what it means.
[02:34:46] <Connor> Well.. Possible a Mosfet with 8 in/out ?
[02:35:35] <Tom_itx> http://www.irf.com/product-info/hexfet/
[02:36:17] <Connor> okay, yea.. I don't think that's the problem on mine.. I think it's something to do with the control side, not the driver side..
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[02:37:14] <jdh> nothing obviously toasted?
[02:37:21] <Connor> Not that I can see.
[02:37:58] <Connor> Shouldn't their be voltage on the + of the speed pot when checked against the gnd ?
[02:38:03] <ReadError> oh crap
[02:38:07] <ReadError> this was almost bad....
[02:38:13] <ReadError> i touch off, start it
[02:38:21] <ReadError> its trying to go to Z0
[02:38:29] <ReadError> almost went straight in to my bed
[02:38:37] <Connor> ouch.
[02:39:19] <ReadError> G90 G94 G17 G91.1
[02:39:19] <ReadError> G20
[02:39:19] <ReadError> G28 G91 Z0.
[02:39:23] <ReadError> first 3 lines ;/
[02:39:58] <andypugh> Connor: If it's a KBIC the pot floats at +100V
[02:41:03] <Connor> 100v ?? How's that possible.. your suppose to be able to use 10V in place of the pot to control it..
[02:42:13] <jdh> guess that's why you need an isolated power supply for the board
[02:42:14] <Connor> It has a schematic of it in the manual online.. but, it's for crap..to fuzzy to read any of the values.
[02:42:54] <Connor> I haven't even gotten to that point yet.. I was still tweaking the spindle..
[02:43:06] <Connor> I just mounted it back on the freaking mill.
[02:43:37] <jdh> 2 down!
[02:43:49] <Connor> ?
[02:44:04] <jdh> didn't you fry your stock controller?
[02:44:23] <Connor> Kinda.
[02:45:06] <Connor> Wonder if it's the Op-Amp that got tosted..
[02:45:57] <jdh> how do you tell it to reverse?
[02:46:23] <jdh> http://solidstatedrives.com/default.aspx?act=faq.aspx&..
[02:46:40] <jdh> some generic troubleshooting stuff for kbic's near the bottom
[02:47:29] <ReadError> http://pastie.org/5672022
[02:47:34] <ReadError> yall dont think that would hurt anything?
[02:47:41] <ReadError> i commented out those first lines
[02:47:50] <ReadError> 3->6
[02:48:08] <ReadError> since its going to G54 and then moving off from that
[02:48:11] <jdh> why get rid fo the g20?
[02:48:36] <ReadError> oh, unit lengths
[02:48:40] <ReadError> yea i should uncomment that
[02:49:06] <jdh> you could set G28 locations and leave them
[02:49:17] <ReadError> i suppose g90 and g91 are okay as well
[02:50:05] <ReadError> so MDI G28.1 to set current location
[02:50:40] <jdh> looks like if you set that, it will be fine as-is?
[02:50:48] <ReadError> yessir that makes sense
[02:50:53] <ReadError> ive never set this before
[02:51:50] <ReadError> hey thats pretty neat, useful
[02:52:32] <jdh> are you homed properly?
[02:53:45] <ReadError> yessir
[02:54:36] <ReadError> ok take 2 on this
[02:55:17] <ReadError> hopefully i dont break anything this time
[02:55:34] <Connor> okay.. looks like maybe the Z2 Diode is toast.
[02:55:44] <jdh> sounds cheap :)
[02:55:48] <Connor> it even looks kinda toasted.. it's silvery looking
[02:57:38] <jdh> I found some 'surplus' 30krpm spindles at work. One is squeaky, the other was working fine when pulled out.
[02:57:51] <Connor> ROFL
[02:58:39] <jdh> I've heard that it is in theory possible to get a pass to get unused materials out. But never found anyone who coudl do so.
[02:58:53] <jdh> someone else suggested writing up the gate pass myself.
[02:59:24] <ReadError> now we are cookin ;)
[03:10:53] <Connor> Its a 1N4748A 22V-1W Zener Diode
[03:16:53] <jdh> costs a dime from mouser
[03:17:05] <andypugh> Connor: Mad as it seems, I am entirely sure about the floating pot. If you look at the manual it says that if you want to use analog voltage control then it is referenced to motor+
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[03:18:21] <andypugh> This is actually not a real problem, as generic DC-DC converters isolate their outputs to 5000V, and you only need a tiny cheap one
[03:22:13] <andypugh> Or you can use an opto circuit like: http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php/forum/30-cnc-machines/25580-grizzly-g1006-milling-machine-cnc-conversion?limitstart=0&lang=english#25670
[03:22:23] <ReadError> increasing my depth of cut/stepover has helped with the finish alot
[03:22:29] <ReadError> i think my stepover was too small before
[03:23:02] <jdh> I think I set mine at about 40%
[03:23:06] <andypugh> However, if the drive is not responding to the pot then replacng the pot with PWM won't help at all
[03:26:32] <ReadError> jdh,40% of endmill diameter ?
[03:26:37] <jdh> yeah
[03:26:50] <ReadError> thats about what im doing now
[03:26:51] <jdh> I think. I haven't set one up in my cam stuff lately
[03:26:56] <ReadError> super nice chip action
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[03:49:20] <andypugh> Night all
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[08:02:40] <DJ9DJ> moin
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[08:17:13] <t12> morning
[08:17:18] <t12> scraping isnt so hard it seems
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[08:51:25] <mrsun> i didnt find it to hard, how good the quality of my work is is another thing tho :P
[08:56:26] <t12> hah yes
[08:56:26] <t12> same
[08:57:37] <mrsun> scraped almost every surface on my X1 ... 1 month of work for a beginner :P
[08:57:46] <mrsun> cost more then the mill does in worktime ;P
[08:57:53] <mrsun> but damn its smooth running after it =)
[09:00:02] <t12> the g0704 conversion is tempting
[09:00:09] <t12> but it def seems like when its done
[09:00:13] <t12> all that was purchased is the castings
[09:00:34] <t12> not that i see any alternative besides casting them myself
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[09:02:20] <mrsun> i wish i could cast big parts myself =)
[09:02:36] <mrsun> i would soo make me a killer milling machine ;P
[09:03:51] <t12> i figure welding a frame together adds too much stress
[09:03:53] <t12> but maybe not?
[09:04:02] <t12> or maybe just hack it up and go find someone with a furnace to anneal it
[09:05:55] <mrsun> stress releief it? :)
[09:06:04] <mrsun> yes
[09:06:07] <mrsun> you said that already :P
[09:06:14] <mrsun> but then if its steel you get it in its "soft" state
[09:06:30] <mrsun> and steel isnt very good compared to cast iron in machines as i understand it :P
[09:08:04] <mrsun> if i had bigger burners i could cast it myself ... so far ive been able to melt 700g of cast iron ... far from a mill table or base but :P
[09:09:32] <t12> could always go the opp direction
[09:09:35] <t12> make the _tiniest_ mill
[09:09:59] <mrsun> pfft :P
[09:10:49] <mrsun> need to make a bigger and better built furnace
[09:11:08] <mrsun> the one i have is an old alu casting furnace that ive cut down and converted for a home heating oil burner
[09:11:13] <mrsun> very small volume
[09:11:20] <mrsun> might be why i manage to melt cast iron in it :P
[09:13:10] <mrsun> but need to get other projects done :P making new gib for Y axis of the mill .. scraping them flat
[09:13:17] <mrsun> or lapping ...
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[11:39:53] <jthornton> good luck trying to lap anything flat
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[12:43:35] <Ranewen> g day, is anyone into servo motors?
[12:46:03] <archivist> a few, ask the real question
[12:46:04] <jthornton> just ask the question
[12:48:39] <Ranewen> o
[12:48:40] <Ranewen> k
[12:49:26] <Ranewen> i got 12v PSU, and is it ok to connect my 2 servos (6v) in series... because I'm affraid of destroying them.
[12:50:04] <Ranewen> ind i am using an avr (5V) to signal wires
[12:52:08] <cncbasher> Ranewen: i presume these are RC Servos ? in that case no do not connect to greater than 6v
[12:52:36] <Ranewen> yes they are rc servos
[12:52:44] <Ranewen> so i cant connect them in series?
[12:52:55] <Loetmichel> unless the servos are desiogned to meet an external battery
[12:52:56] <cncbasher> no
[12:53:08] <Ranewen> thx
[12:53:14] <Ranewen> im glad i didnt connect them
[12:53:53] <Loetmichel> Ranewen: get yourself an 78S06 regulator and 2 capacitors
[12:54:00] <Loetmichel> and make the 12V to 6V
[12:54:18] <Loetmichel> careful: the regulator gets HOT
[12:54:22] <Ranewen> i know
[12:54:28] <Ranewen> i got
[12:54:41] <Ranewen> like dc-dc switching from ebay few $$
[12:54:54] <Loetmichel> ... or use a R/C-mode "battery elemination ciruit"
[12:54:56] <cncbasher> use a 5v pc power supply
[12:55:05] <Ranewen> dont have pc
[12:55:13] <Loetmichel> thats exactly that 78Sxx in ready to go
[12:55:20] <Ranewen> im using scalvaged parts
[12:55:23] <Ranewen> like lifepo4
[12:56:25] <Ranewen> batteries, and cheepo phone chargers... ima poor man
[12:56:58] <Loetmichel> hmmm, is there by any chance an Brushless ESC where you salvaged the servos from?
[12:57:08] <Loetmichel> usually they have internal BEC
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[13:00:32] <Loetmichel> so you can use the 12V PSU at the battery input of the esc and the servo input will spit oit your needed 5/6V for the servos
[13:00:35] <Loetmichel> out
[13:04:07] <Ranewen> Loetmichel, i ordered the servos alone from ebay
[13:04:21] <Ranewen> black ones.... metal gearboxes
[13:04:50] <Loetmichel> then you are out of luck ;-)
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[13:06:39] <Ranewen> Loetmichel, guess so... i got some 7805
[13:06:58] <Ranewen> but since the motors are +5W, 7805 will burn...
[13:07:46] <Loetmichel> not neccesarily
[13:08:09] <Loetmichel> the servos need the 2-3A only when blocked
[13:08:19] <Ranewen> x5 volts
[13:08:22] <Ranewen> =10W
[13:08:28] <Loetmichel> free runnung or with light load 1A should be sufficient
[13:08:28] <Ranewen> you know the cooler for 10W
[13:08:44] <Ranewen> hmm
[13:24:24] <mrsun> hmm how to heck squareness of something without having a super duper square for thousands of dollars :P
[13:28:56] <Ranewen> mrsun, indeed
[13:28:56] <mrsun> s/heck/check/g
[13:29:07] <jthornton> a test indicator and a surface plate
[13:29:26] <Ranewen> anyone got cheap ultrasonics from ebay
[13:29:33] <mrsun> got both, but how do i check the actual squareness of something using it ?
[13:29:44] <mrsun> i need to surfaces square .. like in an 90 degree angle plate
[13:30:29] <jthornton> looking for the link
[13:31:44] <mrsun> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=baqCWk4OmwU
[13:31:45] <mrsun> hmm
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[13:35:53] <jthornton> http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CEMQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.neme-s.org%2FModel_Engineer_Files%2F3065-Basic%2520Squareness.pdf&ei=YGbxUPXhJ8nligKn4IDYCw&usg=AFQjCNFVnPSX9aVZnf_JgCM1UOJzY_M1og&bvm=bv.1357700187,d.cGE&cad=rja
[13:36:03] <bedah> moin
[13:36:58] <jthornton> mrsun, found it http://www.thetoolanddieguy.com/archives/115
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[13:40:38] <archivist> mrsun, you can make a square on your lathe if you have a micrometer
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[13:43:12] <jthornton> how do you do that?
[13:43:53] <archivist> circular square :)
[13:44:05] <jthornton> ah
[13:50:41] <archivist> there were some 1/2 " thick foot square black granite tiles in the hardware shop today, looked just right for baby surface plates
[13:51:49] <archivist> no wavyness of the roof reflection so reasonably flat
[13:52:21] <jthornton> how would you check the flatness?
[13:53:24] <archivist> could use a mirror and collimator
[13:53:58] * jthornton looks up what a collimator might be
[13:55:02] <jthornton> is that something you can make in the shop?
[13:56:15] <archivist> yes but not that easy
[13:59:18] <jthornton> have you seen this? http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/threads/18917-Qualitative-flatness-testing-cheap-%28pics%29?highlight=flatness+salt
[13:59:50] <jthornton> well minus the auto highlight http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/threads/18917-Qualitative-flatness-testing-cheap-%28pics%29
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[14:02:10] <archivist> yes I did the other week
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[14:03:51] <jthornton> I'm still not sure how he generated the line instead of a spot
[14:04:30] <archivist> there are line lasers, one goes through a circular lens
[14:04:39] <jthornton> I'll have to go look to see if my laser makes a line too
[14:06:05] <archivist> jthornton, as found on the net the collimator and mirror method http://www.archivist.info/cnc/pdf/
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[14:09:02] <jthornton> thanks
[14:09:58] <archivist> I have a poor mans collimator, called an angle dekkor
[14:13:14] <archivist> I have a soft spot for fleabay 170972503003 when measuring relative angles
[14:14:16] <jthornton> looks like it has been well cared for
[14:15:01] <archivist> cost me £80 to replace the bubble in mine
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[14:18:23] <archivist> cannot afford a mirror fleabay 281046619929
[14:19:30] <awallin> looks like a silver mirror? you can probably build the mount for less than 700
[14:20:04] <archivist> jthornton, I should call them autocollimator not just collimator see 380531770126
[14:20:55] <awallin> what are those used for?? :)
[14:21:15] <archivist> awallin, I have a precision polygon which has 8 mirror, I suppose I could just make a mount
[14:21:44] <archivist> awallin, machine testing see http://www.archivist.info/cnc/pdf/
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[14:23:31] <archivist> add a 90 deg prism and you can check squareness and z travels etc
[14:24:03] <Ranewen> using rc servos under heavy load, but they just cant stop getting warmer, how can i chill them ?
[14:25:04] <awallin> archivist: someone must have DIYed a modern version with a diode-laser and a webcam??
[14:25:33] <archivist> not seen yet :)
[14:27:05] <awallin> should build an interferometer for checking screw-comp too :) that might be harder..
[14:29:20] <archivist> ones list of "should do" exponentially grows with age
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[14:32:32] <mrsun> jthornton, haha that tool and die guy realy thinks big of himself :P
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[14:33:21] <mrsun> archivist, yeah read about them in a book but that requires my lathe to turn perfectly parallel and wont bother trying to make it do that on the bench its on right now :P
[14:34:11] <archivist> mrsun, adjust with wet and dry to size :)
[14:34:26] <mrsun> archivist, huh ? :)
[14:34:35] <pfred1> kitty litter?
[14:35:00] <archivist> fine sandpaper
[14:35:34] <pfred1> I use sawdust as speedy dry myself
[14:35:49] <pfred1> I usually have a bunch in my garage
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[14:39:02] <mrsun> archivist, so if its the same dia at top and bottom and then i face of the bottom it will be a near perfect square then
[14:39:45] <archivist> should be better than near
[14:40:17] <archivist> depends how well you can measure the diameter
[14:40:31] <mrsun> micrometer is the closest i have .. 0.01
[14:40:43] <mrsun> mm
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[14:44:29] <mrsun> i wonder how good my granite stone is =)
[14:44:36] <mrsun> in flatness
[14:44:49] <mrsun> according to the paper its within grade 00 tolerances .. but if that is correct i dont know :P
[14:44:52] <pfred1> surface plates are usually pretty accurate
[14:45:14] <mrsun> its grade 0 on the place i bought it from, then it came with a "test" paper and everything was bellow 00 maximum spec
[14:48:57] <mrsun> tho it was a cheap surface plate :P
[14:49:18] <mrsun> so never know how those things are realy real :P
[14:49:54] <pfred1> I never make anything that needs to be super accurate by design
[14:51:07] <mrsun> heh, found granite angles for like $130 or so ... i wonder if that is anything to have =)
[14:51:15] <mrsun> so i can spot stuff to scrape them to squareness
[14:51:21] <mrsun> hard to spot with a cylindrical square
[14:51:48] <pfred1> angle plates are usually made out of steel
[14:51:50] <mrsun> oh but they were very thin .. :/
[14:52:14] <mrsun> pfred1, yes but this is for work on the surface plate, to check work/spot them for scraping
[14:52:29] <mrsun> but at 20mm thick its kinda useless anyhow :P
[14:52:39] <pfred1> steel angle plates work on surface plates
[14:52:52] <pfred1> it is how we used to test our wheel dressers
[14:53:57] <pfred1> I rebuilt one of those once and it didn't move a 0.0001 indicator going through its range of motion
[14:54:33] <pfred1> I showed it to another machinist and he suggested I ask for a raise :)
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[14:54:52] <mrsun> 0.015mm/100mm for a square i guess thats kinda accurate also
[14:55:05] * pfred1 doesn't do metric
[14:55:10] <mrsun> hehe
[14:55:27] <pfred1> well OK I do Imperial metric I suppose
[14:55:37] <mrsun> 0.00254mm is 0.0001 inch
[14:56:10] <pfred1> yeah to me 0.0001 is a nice round number but 0.00254mm is a bit clumsey to work with
[14:56:13] <mrsun> 0.00059inch/4 inches then
[14:57:38] <pfred1> I have a micrometer set I never break the thing out and use it though
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[14:59:30] <pfred1> mrsun whenever we wanted anything closer than 0.003 of an inch we ground it we never tried for that kind of accuracy on a lathe or a mill
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[16:00:09] <rizo> I have a problem with parport pci card. The lpci-v shows different I/O ports, first at dc00 (this is the one i used for hal settings). I tested the simple pwm at 1hz and halmeter shows the parport.1.pin is changing its value, but the led on that pin is not plinking.
[16:00:53] <pfred1> you can't see an LED blink at 1 Hz
[16:01:00] <rizo> no
[16:01:19] <archivist> sure you can see 1hz
[16:01:41] <pfred1> wait a minute you're driving an LED off a parallel port pin?
[16:02:17] <rizo> I have 5V - led - resitor - parportpin
[16:02:37] <rizo> is it possible the parport addres is wrong
[16:03:26] <pfred1> so you just want the parallel port to sink current?
[16:03:43] <JT-Shop> http://linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/forum/18-computer/4743-parallel-port-tester?limitstart=0
[16:03:58] <rizo> Yes, but yust to test if the parallel port is working good.
[16:04:04] <pfred1> I'd have to see a schematic of exactly what you're doing but so far it doesn't sound good
[16:04:55] <pfred1> rizo this is the BOB I made: http://www.instructables.com/id/Parallel-Port-Break-Out-Board-BOB/
[16:05:06] <pfred1> it is a bit more sophisticated than an LED on the port
[16:05:08] <rizo> The schematics is simple: +5V - led - 330Ohm - resistor. The same circuit works fine on motherboard parport connector
[16:06:10] <rizo> The problem is in hal. Maybe the parport address.
[16:06:20] <pfred1> when I first started investigating parallel ports i just used a multimeter set on the voltage scale myself
[16:06:33] <pfred1> it is a lot less of a load
[16:06:57] * pfred1 has *never* burnt a parallel port out yet either
[16:07:41] <pfred1> my BOB loads the port something like a tenthousandth of an amp
[16:08:10] <pfred1> I forget the exact vaule today it is low though
[16:08:24] <Ranewen> small oftopic: blinking LED's are must have for sucessfull consumer products
[16:08:42] <pfred1> Ranewen I never make anything without at least one LED on it
[16:09:11] <Ranewen> i don't know the link, but blinky LED's sell more
[16:09:12] <pfred1> probably because I have a drawer of the suckers i need to use up
[16:10:06] <rizo> Why are there the IO ports at pci with different length, five size=8 and one size=16
[16:10:22] <rizo> which one is the one i should use?
[16:10:43] <pfred1> the one that works
[16:11:32] <pfred1> rizo just so you know I've done all of this so it works (TM) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgbeyNNBZ68
[16:12:33] <pfred1> I am much more cautious running current into parallel ports than you seem to be though
[16:12:40] <rizo> i also have the working cnc machine
[16:12:46] <rizo> made by myself
[16:13:03] <rizo> but now i have the problem with parallel port that i can not solve
[16:13:19] <pfred1> buffer the port
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[16:14:14] <rizo> I tested this circuit more than 10 times on other ports. This is not a problem for parallel port to sink.
[16:15:00] <rizo> I tried to connect the Voltage meter instead of led.... same result.
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[16:16:40] <Ranewen> hey, i will dismantle my pc, i need to know can i use Copper (Carlube) Multi-purpose grease, Helps prevent disc brake squeal, anti-seize assembly compount................................ between my proc and heatsink ?
[16:17:07] <pfred1> rizo some parallel ports can sink less than 3ma
[16:17:11] <pfred1> they vary
[16:17:33] <Tom_itx> Ranewen, i doubt it
[16:17:34] <pfred1> there is no spec today for what a parallel port can sink believe me i looked for it
[16:18:06] <Ranewen> because copper has the "highest" thermal conductivity
[16:18:15] <pfred1> silver does
[16:18:41] <pfred1> rat shack sells thermal compound
[16:19:19] <Ranewen> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_thermal_conductivities
[16:19:22] <rizo> OK, i disconnected the led... i connected the voltage meter... same result
[16:19:41] <Ranewen> this paste is "greasy" copper.....
[16:19:49] <JT-Shop> does the parallel port tester show your port working?
[16:20:27] <Ranewen> Thermal grease, silver-based 8.89+ Copper, pure 385
[16:20:46] <rizo> still working on tester....
[16:21:00] <JT-Shop> the one I linked to you
[16:21:31] <rizo> will try...
[16:22:15] <pfred1> also some thermal compounds can damage electronics over time too
[16:22:31] <pfred1> CPUs aren't exactly as hardy as disc brake pads
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[16:29:25] <rizo> JT-Shop, i tried the tester...it works fine on both parallel ports
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[16:30:48] <rizo> i don't understand this...in my hal code, i can see with halmeter the value of pin is changeing with no effect on output
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[16:34:18] <JT-Shop> what is the output connected to?
[16:36:04] * JT-Shop is working with a short sleeved shirt outside in January and sweating
[16:38:16] <rizo> output of what...parport...to led
[16:39:37] <rizo> i have pwmgen.0.pwm connected to parport.1.pin-17-out
[16:40:44] <JT-Shop> does the paralle port tester light up the led?
[16:41:14] <rizo> yes
[16:44:15] <rizo> sorry
[16:44:20] <rizo> found an error
[16:44:41] <rizo> i forgot to add the parport.0.read/write
[16:44:45] <rizo> :))
[16:44:58] <rizo> sorry for my stupidity
[16:46:01] <rizo> i forgot to add the parport.1.read/write
[16:47:14] <rizo> strange... halmeter did not detect this...
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[17:12:53] <tjtr33> http://pastebin.com/Kh4kHnPB kinda complement to weighted_sum, often we use groups of i/o in chunks of 4/8/16, so this is a "bytewrite"
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[17:30:03] <rizo> JT-Shop, can i program the partest program pins to hold its state
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[17:32:40] <JT-Shop> yea, change the button to a check box
[17:33:06] <JT-Shop> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/hal/pyvcp.html#_buttons
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[17:35:57] <rizo> i see... thank you
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[17:41:43] <tjtr33> linuxcnc is just so flexible http://videobin.org/+6ad/720.html next... Mxxx to set values
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[17:59:26] <bpuk> Well, that looks like a slightly more reasonable jitter. 9249 (instead of ~28-30k)
[18:00:44] <IchGuckLive> bpuk: yes you got it
[18:01:13] <IchGuckLive> run latency with 4 glxgears and pull a fle > 400MB around then do a USB into
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[18:02:41] <bpuk> 4 glxgears, plus compiling lcnc 2.6, and plugging in a usb brings it up to 9432
[18:02:59] <IchGuckLive> then you are the SERVO king
[18:03:13] <IchGuckLive> with 200ksteps per second
[18:03:21] <bpuk> Not put any servo's in yet - this is just a motherboard upgrade :D
[18:04:19] <bpuk> or connected this PC to the lathe yet - still doing all the software installs inside where it's warm
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[18:12:04] <archivist> what is this warm you speak of
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[18:13:04] <bpuk> about 5 degrees - think that's about 40 in english. Warmer than where the lathe is
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[18:14:02] <archivist> I got my lathe indoors, hoping the pc will warm the place up a bit
[18:14:30] <bpuk> darn, changing to a low-power, high efficiency PC was probably a bad idea then ;)
[18:14:47] <bpuk> and yeah, PC's do tend to produce a suprising amount of heat
[18:15:17] <archivist> 5 deg out doors 6.6 in so the pc's are helping
[18:16:04] <kwallace> Off topic but, what is the modern equivalent to the WRT54g for hacking low power Linux apps?
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[18:25:20] <ReadError> whats a good aluminum cutting fluid
[18:25:27] <ReadError> that i could get from mcmaster or amazon
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[18:28:32] <kwallace> I still think kerosene works well on aluminum. I put a little bit of oil in it.
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[18:30:15] <kwallace> Diesel fuel might work well.
[18:30:35] <bpuk_> tried WD40?
[18:31:06] <ReadError> yea i been using WD40 and 3-in-1 mix
[18:31:15] <ReadError> just wasnt sure if there was any better option
[18:32:14] <bpuk_> I use WD40 on the router - and normal soluble oil on the mill - I get a better finish with WD40 - but there is still the occasional problem of BUE and chip welding
[18:32:51] <Loetmichel> bpuk_: i cant stand the smell of WD40 in high volumes at milling
[18:33:33] <Loetmichel> i just use a mix of water, dish detergent and castor oil ;-)
[18:33:53] <Loetmichel> in a Flower pump spray can
[18:34:27] <t12> i've started to like the smell of tapmagic
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[18:36:45] <kwallace> Water based fluids made a smelly, rusty mess of my mill, so I avoid water based fluids, like the plague, unless the machine is made specifically for water based fluids.
[18:37:44] <Loetmichel> my mill is made from aluminium
[18:38:09] <Loetmichel> and using the pump spray means low volume, so no mess
[18:38:27] <Connor1> http://www.tormach.com/store/index.php?app=ecom&ns=prodshow&ref=31750
[18:38:42] <Loetmichel> fro time to time one has to use alcohol to get the smeary castor oil from the components, thats all
[18:38:44] <Connor1> I got some of that to use.. I've ran it through a bit... but, haven't used it to cut yet..
[18:38:54] <Connor1> no signs of rust on anything.. and I ran it through months ago.
[18:38:59] Connor1 is now known as Connor
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[18:44:48] <kwallace> My machines were made before water based fluids became the standard. I would think newer higher quality machines should be okay. In one shop, we had a 500 gal. of coolant which was used to fill the machine sumps. It needed attention a few times a day every day.
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[18:47:43] <Loetmichel> kwallace: normal industrial cooling fluids have a rust inhibitor so the machine wont rust even though the fluid is < 50% water
[18:48:29] <Loetmichel> and a bacteria inhibitor to conteract the "gets smelly" effect
[18:49:43] <mrsun> even if the fluid is less then 50% water? :P
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[18:53:01] <kwallace> You're right, but my experience has been that if one doesn't pay proper and constant attention to the water based fluids, they can be a disaster. The marketing claims only seem to apply to ideal conditions, so the buyer needs to be aware.
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[18:55:36] <Loetmichel> kwallace: right
[18:55:59] <Loetmichel> but not applicable if one uses minimum amounts by hand from a spray gun
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[19:03:41] <kwallace> Even then, if the machine sits for a while, the water in the slides can separate out and rust. If the machine is going sit for a while, all of the water needs to be removed which is next to impossible. I just avoid ever having any water on my machines in the first place.
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[19:06:27] <devilindisguise> hello!
[19:06:31] <gene__> Hi guys, got a prob with the or2 module. Either input=true should give a true out, not so, both have to be true
[19:07:06] <devilindisguise> i am having issues running linuxcnc within qemu
[19:07:43] <gene__> Linuxcnc only runs well with its own kernel
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[19:08:00] <cradek> gene__: works for me...
[19:08:01] <cradek> 32769 bit IN TRUE or2.0.in0
[19:08:02] <cradek> 32769 bit IN FALSE or2.0.in1
[19:08:02] <cradek> 32769 bit OUT TRUE or2.0.out
[19:08:44] <gene__> I can't get a true out of it for one input true.
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[19:09:16] <cradek> gene__: I don't see how that can be!
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[19:09:35] <gene__> me either Chris
[19:09:38] <devilindisguise> gene: mhm, ok. well, its the rtai patched kernel delivered with linuxcnc based on ubuntu 10.04...
[19:10:03] <gene__> CXhris that ones yours
[19:10:14] <gene__> Chris that ones yours
[19:11:04] <devilindisguise> the rtapi setup seems to fail
[19:11:20] <gene__> humm, lemme check my addf statement
[19:11:32] <devilindisguise> is this known, or is it my specific qemu that doesnt work?
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[19:12:15] <gene__> IIieeeeeuuuuup, missing. I'll get me coat
[19:12:45] <bpuk> who the heck decided that kettle leads were a good connector for computers. *mutter*
[19:13:19] <christian___> hallo zusammen bin linucnc neuling gibt s hier hilfe fg
[19:13:36] <tjtr33> appliance cord = kettle leads :) never heard that one
[19:13:49] <cradek> gene__: we've all done it! [and more than once]
[19:14:35] <bpuk> or IEC C13 I think. Stupid connector for a computer, should have a locking clip of some kind. Yes I just knocked the lead out ;)
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[19:15:48] <devilindisguise> christian: kommt auf dein problem an. englisch ist die sprache der wahl.
[19:16:27] <christian___> ja da hammas des problem
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[19:19:33] <devilindisguise> has anyone run linuxcnc 2.5.1 within qemu?
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[19:20:06] <cradek> devilindisguise: you oughta run the simulator version, not the realtime
[19:20:44] <gene__> Ok, now, is motion.probe-input level sensitive or edge?
[19:21:03] <devilindisguise> cradek: ok. is tehre a deb with with linuxcnc compiled for sim?
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[19:21:13] <cradek> devilindisguise: yes
[19:21:45] <devilindisguise> cradek: ok, thanks. another thing. is it rtai or do you know why it fails to start the rtapi part?
[19:21:47] <cradek> http://linuxcnc.org/dists/lucid/linuxcnc2.5-sim/binary-i386/
[19:22:24] <cradek> no idea, especially since you haven't said what the error is. but it's silly to worry about running rtai in a virtual machine anyway
[19:23:31] <devilindisguise> cradek: well, for testing i really like virtualization.
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[19:23:42] <IchGuckLive> cristian wars off befor i coudt jump in im from germany !
[19:23:46] <devilindisguise> cradek: but ill go into that and post some deatils
[19:23:49] <IchGuckLive> as may here 2
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[19:25:12] <IchGuckLive> if he cristian comes in ones more plesa direct him to y german tutorials http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjXwTWWHULc
[19:25:27] <IchGuckLive> and i am alwas on at 19-20 Berlin time
[19:25:35] <IchGuckLive> BY for today
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[19:31:02] <devilindisguise> ok __rtai_lxrt_init is making trouble, liblinuxcnchal.so functions cause a segfault because of that. says the kernellog.
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[19:36:52] <mrsun> to check tailstock alignment of the lathe i can just what ain indicator in the chuck and sweep it around a dead center in the tailstock right? :)
[19:37:16] <AR__> yes
[19:38:35] <archivist> mrsun, get the bed level (both ends, remove twist caused by bench) first
[19:38:46] <mrsun> ye i guess :P
[19:39:01] <mrsun> need to get the new lathe bench finnished :/
[19:39:22] <gene__> cradek? could I get enough bounce contact between the tool and the face of a piece of pcb to effectively make motion.probe-input edge sensitive?
[19:39:24] <mrsun> sucks that the concrete floor in the cellar is just thrown in there, so someplaces its like 2cm thick, others 5, others 10 etc :/
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[19:39:58] <mrsun> http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/attachments/f45/65754d1356634551-what-unusual-uses-there-cylindrical-square-cynsq.jpg now THERES a way to check a angle plate for level!
[19:40:02] <mrsun> :P
[19:40:04] <archivist> I went to a grinding place to ask about straightening and the first thing the bloke asked was about my bench :)
[19:40:15] <cradek> gene__: if your bounces last for more than a servo cycle, certainly that can cause you trouble
[19:40:22] <mrsun> level->square
[19:40:49] <gene__> 2khz servo-thread
[19:41:25] <mrsun> thats freakin brilliant .. if cylindrical squares actualy is that square that you say that must be the ultimate way to check for square =)
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[19:41:39] <cradek> you could debounce with a 1-3ms or so time constant in hardware or software
[19:43:08] <gene__> Looks like I'll have to, darnit
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[19:49:52] <devilindisguise> i put the debug output to: http://nopaste.info/f345655868.html
[19:50:35] <devilindisguise> i tried without apic, hpet... no difference, also qemu or qemu with kvm doesnt make a difference
[19:50:47] <MercuryRising> is there a good reason to have the heated bed below the glass transition temperature of abs? i have been printing at ~120C, and it sticks great
[19:53:15] <devilindisguise> something completly different. has anyone built or used a rl interface to axis? like rotary encoder knobs, jog/shuffle dials, knobs to control the UI?
[19:53:33] <MercuryRising> whoops, wrong one!
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[19:53:49] <devilindisguise> i have some of those&some avr microcontrollers laying around and wonder if they could be put to use
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[20:00:43] <gene__> This crazy Chris. Put a clip lead held against the copper of the pcb, solid contact. put clip lead holdown bolt of qc tool, noisier than hell on halscope
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[20:02:56] <cradek> gene__: my very good commercial probe has a 3-4 ms time constant. you sure have to probe slowly, at least on the final probe move.
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[20:07:32] <gene__> I can hold the probe solidly on the tool tip, and the led on the C1G is not out, but dim. So I need to do some filtering. My big scope says its the nominally 40 khz motor switching as they sit there idele.
[20:08:30] <gene__> That is essentially random noise at a 2khz servo-thread rate
[20:10:19] <gene__> could be frozen in either state as thread run time.. what would be a good 'gain' for a lowpass in series with that?
[20:10:28] <gene__> s/as/at
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[20:14:26] <tjtr33> how to write the mu symbol into a vcp? ( eg: for micro inch or micro second )
[20:16:14] <devilindisguise> ok, jeff eppler did it, but is blog is down. well, a good starting pint.
[20:16:18] <devilindisguise> cu folks
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[20:20:53] <gene__> Humm, need a one logic line debounce, man page "loadrt debounce cfg=" is not well defined, please elaborate
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[20:22:48] <ReadError> i learned the handy feature of "Run from here" last night
[20:22:53] <ReadError> after i broke and endmill
[20:24:33] <gene__> I told it cfg=1, then get debounce.0 does not exist?
[20:25:15] <pcw_home> gene what about a .01 capacitor...
[20:26:23] <gene__> I have done that too, unhandy but helped, didn't solve
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[20:28:12] <gene__> what I need is a cfg line for debounce's loadrt that sets up one line of debounce.
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[20:28:51] <gene__> or, how do I state it in the net statement since debounce.0.in is an error
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[20:32:44] <gene__> ahh, found it, comment troubling line out, then inspect with halconf
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[20:33:36] <Tom_itx> net in-home-z debounce.0.3.in <= hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.gpio.043.innet out-home-z debounce.0.3.out => axis.2.home-sw-in axis.2.pos-lim-sw-in
[20:33:47] <gene__> debounce.0.0.in and debounce.0.0.out. Consistency, would be nice if there was some... :)
[20:33:57] <Tom_itx> ^^
[20:34:27] <Tom_itx> except the lines ran together
[20:34:32] <Tom_itx> innet should be split
[20:34:39] <Tom_itx> in net
[20:38:27] <tjtr33> putting \1 thru \7 in vcp labels is interesting, but more digits dont seem to work, even \8 \9 are jusy literal
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[20:39:29] <JT-Shop> dang internet is lumpy when it rains
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[20:45:52] * Tom_itx spreads it smooth with a butter knife
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[20:59:03] <gene__> and just had another crash quitting linuxcnc
[21:03:40] <gene__> It gets all cleaned up, and crashes about 3 seconds later. Flakey damned machine!
[21:06:01] <tjtr33> /xxx escape format... like /085 should print the mu symbol. maybe my font aint got one :p
[21:08:14] <tjtr33> er \xxx
[21:10:47] <gene__> this time it was a little faster, 200 millisecs after clickung quit
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[21:46:54] <gene__> And I think I have the probe whipped, it trips off when moving left, and ignores the noise when moving right. Except now its disabled for x motion. Grrr
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[21:53:33] <gene__> Sigh, gotta think up a way to bypass this stuff when x is moving, either way. And it HAS to be bidirectional for x as it could be measureing a tool facing either way.
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[22:02:32] <MattyMatt> yay I got me a dinky knee mill base -> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/milling-machine-base-/261151455705
[22:03:24] <pjm> that is a nice purchase!
[22:04:06] <MattyMatt> gotta get it up stairs tho. I hope the table winds up and off
[22:04:11] <Tom_itx> not the same one you were looking at
[22:04:27] <MattyMatt> nope that went for more
[22:04:33] <MattyMatt> and was too far away
[22:04:53] <MattyMatt> but was a far more sensible size for upstairs :)
[22:05:14] <bpuk> looks like a nice winning bid too - should strip down into a few fairly manageable parts without too much trouble
[22:07:55] <MattyMatt> 2 I hope
[22:08:33] <MattyMatt> I'll take planks and ropes. the base looks about 100lbs of iron
[22:09:16] <MattyMatt> and another 60 for the works, which I can lift by hand hopefully
[22:09:47] <MattyMatt> hernia fun
[22:10:22] <MattyMatt> my usual buddy has just had a transplant op, so he's out. all my other friends are weaklings
[22:10:26] <DJ9DJ> gn8
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[22:13:04] <MattyMatt> knee Z won't be easy to motorise. I cant see an easy way to counterweight it
[22:13:18] <andypugh> MattyMatt: Add a chinese spindle and you could have a decent machine
[22:13:37] <MattyMatt> yeps that's exactly what I was thinking
[22:13:59] <MattyMatt> I'll improvice with one of my router spindles for now tho
[22:14:14] <bpuk> could skip the Z counterweight and stick a larger motor on there - depends what sort of power you're willing to use
[22:14:41] <MattyMatt> 240V 13A is my limit, so 3kW
[22:15:01] <bpuk> or add a separate Z slide for the spindle and leave the 'knee' as a manual adjustment
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[22:15:26] <bpuk> the latter probably being a much better option in that case
[22:15:27] <andypugh> I got a new motor today. It looks ideal for a lathe spindle: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/YWXJhBzhPrr4BMY-hFvHwNMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
[22:15:32] <MattyMatt> yeah that's more sensible, but that'd leave me wishing I'd just got an X-Y table instead
[22:16:04] <andypugh> My mill has a motorised knee and fixed head.
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[22:16:16] <bpuk> andypugh: that's... different. BLDC?
[22:16:37] <andypugh> Deckel CNC machines move the table for Z. (but they slide the head for Y, so are just strange)
[22:16:37] <bpuk> manual knee and motorized quill here
[22:16:57] <andypugh> bpuk: Yes, it's a bldc from a direct-drive washing machine.
[22:16:59] <bpuk> that sounds more like a grinder design
[22:17:20] <andypugh> 27 quid for the parts, £20 postage. I was drunk and it was on eBay
[22:17:26] <MattyMatt> I thought those washing machines were only found in US
[22:17:52] <MattyMatt> it's 12 pole isn't it?
[22:17:54] <bpuk> heh. I came home one day to find a black london taxi in the drive. Turned out my dad had got drunk and gone on ebay. Always a mistake
[22:18:28] <andypugh> I don't think I will be able to resist seeing how it works on my current lathe, even though it is intended for a decent lathe.
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[22:19:26] <bpuk> must have been a pretty beefy washing machine
[22:19:53] <andypugh> I wonder what voltage it uses? Almost certainly rectified-mains I expect.
[22:21:03] <MattyMatt> http://hackedgadgets.com/2008/12/16/cnc-machine-built-using-washing-machine-motors/
[22:23:33] <andypugh> It sounds horribly like he is using them as stepper motors.
[22:25:41] <MattyMatt> is there a diff between VFD and a microstepping stepper driver?
[22:26:05] <bpuk> looks that way. Funny how some people see PM motors as low pole count steppers, and others see steppers as really high pole count PMSM
[22:26:08] <MattyMatt> ah his is not microstepping :)
[22:27:03] <MattyMatt> 42 coils in 6 poles. I wonder if that will work on a 3 pole VFD
[22:28:59] <MattyMatt> presumably 7 or 14 times slower than a straight 3 phase motor
[22:29:42] <andypugh> You could run it on a VFD, but that wouldn't be ideal.
[22:30:23] <andypugh> The phase angle will tend to be very small with a VFD, and the current too high.
[22:32:16] <pcw_home> yes a vfd would mainly pull inwards, instead or tangentialy
[22:35:08] <MattyMatt> it looks like it' be nice in a bicycle wheel
[22:36:49] <MattyMatt> so, custom 6 pole stepper driver is the only option?
[22:37:07] <pcw_home> no, BLDC servo
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[22:39:09] <tjtr33> \x7f is end of the line for escape codes in vcp, cant set that hi bit
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[22:46:17] <bpuk> hmm. I should have both a base_period and a servo_period in my hal files? (5i20 based system, feeding steppers, encoder on spindle and a handwheel)
[22:47:20] <pcw_home> No base period needed
[22:48:27] <bpuk> oh good. New computer, copied the old configs over - jitter has gone from ~30k to ~10k. Checking through the hal and ini files to sanity check them before reconnecting it
[22:48:58] <bpuk> servo perios is 1000000 - so 1ms there. Which sounds about right.
[22:50:37] <tjtr33> the rest of these escape chars may be useful to gui designers http://imagebin.org/242661
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[22:57:49] <bpuk> I have max_acceleration for each axis set at 200 mm/sec/sec - from memory I dropped these down after having occasional stalls (which may have been PC/jitter related) - do they sound typical for a stepper system?
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[23:00:51] <MattyMatt> those chinese spindles all seem to be either ER11 or ER20, but I have a full ER16 collet set already :p
[23:02:04] <Tom_itx> better trade it in
[23:02:52] <bpuk> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FOUR-BEARING-1-5KW-WATER-COOLED-SPINDLE-MOTOR-ER16-VFD-DRIVE-INVERTER-AT1-/260963656443?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cc2a562fb
[23:03:15] <bpuk> gah, I'll look again with US orders removed
[23:04:05] <bpuk> or you can search ebay for 'er16 spindle' about 20 results here
[23:04:09] <tandoori> hi. i assume some of you lot have experience in cnc mills. I am trying to purcase my first. This is what I found: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Low-price-high-quality-3020-4-axis-mini-pcb-cnc-milling-machine/612311017.html
[23:05:35] <bpuk> MattyMatt: Also, ArcEuroTrade's 0.75kW spindle uses ER16
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[23:09:21] <bpuk> tandoori: What do you want to make?
[23:09:25] <MattyMatt> tandoori that's a nice looking complete set, even the 4th axis with chuck which is nothing to do with pcb milling :)
[23:09:51] <tandoori> MattyMatt: I have other ideas to use that thing ;-)
[23:10:04] <tandoori> bpuk: mainly pcb milling but other stuff too
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[23:10:53] <tandoori> what size traces can i expect to be able to make with something like that?
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[23:13:51] <bpuk> On a stepper based system like that you can probably expect to have a maximum positioning accuracy of around 0.1mm - you should be able to cut finer than that, but it won't be repeatable from one board to another - which might not matter so much.
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[23:14:52] <bpuk> endmills are available from 0.1mm upwards - which tells you your minimum creepage. I'd assume a minimum trace of 0.15 mm width as a fairly safe bet. Ideally slightly larger, but for a one-off you may be able to push things a bit
[23:15:31] <tandoori> so all the boards will be slightly differnet, but the eye may not be able notice?
[23:16:06] <tandoori> i dont care if they are differnet so long as they have the same operation
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[23:16:57] <bpuk> All the boards may be slightly different unless the raw stock is placed in exactly the same place - but we're talking about a minute difference - unless you are attempting to mill very fine traces or do pick and place it's irrelevant
[23:17:43] <andypugh> MattyMatt IRAMS module is ideal. and a uP to convert hall sensor inputs to phase excitations
[23:18:25] <tandoori> mmm. that cnc mill will do just fine. I also have plans to try and mill stone applications ;-) someone told me i would need a water cooled addition
[23:18:56] <bpuk> depends on the stone - I cut soft stones with nothing more than a spray bottle full of water
[23:19:33] <tandoori> im talking about beryl and corundum
[23:21:12] <andypugh> Aren't they what you use for cutting stone?
[23:21:22] <bpuk> That's... pretty darn hard. Diamond burrs and lots of water are likely to be your best chance
[23:21:29] <tandoori> aye
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[23:29:46] <bpuk> andypugh: emerald, ruby and sapphire - the latter two are occasionally used as an abrasive, but yeah - hard.
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[23:31:18] <Valen> I have milled glass with diamond burrs if thats any help
[23:32:00] <tandoori> thats a whole lot of help
[23:32:03] <Valen> big thing to watch for is the stainless steel ones seem to work harden and snap after a fairly short while
[23:32:10] <Valen> what are you trying to do?
[23:33:44] <tandoori> i plan on ordering clourless corundum hemisphere for an....experiment
[23:34:44] <tandoori> Valen: if i am successful, I will show you the result of my toil
[23:34:56] <Valen> I wanted to make a solid saphire ring for the missus, figured it'd be too fragile
[23:35:12] <Valen> got any more details, size, how much you want to remove, a source perhaps?
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[23:37:39] <tandoori> oh my project? well i hope to order flat sliced sheets of beryl and corundum and cut them like any other material
[23:37:56] <andypugh> This was todays work: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/BE1WrWEhMirG0ADLY4Lc7NMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
[23:38:30] <andypugh> Just needs the arc-shaped holes for locking the adjustment now.
[23:38:31] <Valen> The only places i could find saphire from wanted to charge me 2x the cost of the saphire for shipping
[23:38:47] <tandoori> for a small thing like that? thats crazy
[23:38:54] <tandoori> unless you are ording a brick of it
[23:39:01] <andypugh> Maybe it was a 20kg sapphire?
[23:39:13] <tandoori> haha maybe
[23:39:35] <bpuk> andypugh: Not going to try for a disc brake on there? :P
[23:39:46] <Valen> it was 25mmx8mm i think it cost like 30 euro
[23:40:04] <andypugh> bpuk: It's mainly intended for gear hobbing.
[23:40:13] <Valen> shipping was only by super express premium courier for 100 euro
[23:40:19] <Valen> (to australia)
[23:40:40] <tjtr33> andypugh, very nice. like the locking connectors. could you put something we know near for scale? i guess its like 350/400 mm high?
[23:41:05] <andypugh> I got a bit creative with the way that the motor couples to the shaft, in a quest for ultimate shortness: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/lYuP0nddcE8oukjhT66EdtMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
[23:41:09] <bpuk> andypugh: I had guessed that - looks like a nice unit - encoder on the motor only (nothing on the output shaft) I guess?
[23:41:16] <Valen> so how much and where were you getting your chunks from tandoori?
[23:41:31] <andypugh> 100mm centre height
[23:41:40] <Valen> and what sort of total lenght of cut were you thinking?
[23:42:03] <bpuk> heh, hex spline, nifty
[23:42:11] <tandoori> Valen: im bugging these people for my project
[23:42:17] <tandoori> http://www.geolite.com/default.htm
[23:42:22] <tandoori> oops, forgot to paste the link
[23:42:27] <Valen> andypugh: I hate your surface finishes ;-P
[23:42:55] <Valen> they make anything I do look like crap lol
[23:42:57] <andypugh> bpuk: the hex socket was bored on my lathe. Which _is_ nifty.
[23:43:38] <bpuk> yeah, I saw a video yonks back of you doing eccentric turning. At the time you had to turn the spindle by hand I think. I assume you've got past that now
[23:43:50] <andypugh> Valen: It's mainly a matter of adjusting the spindle speed over-ride until the finish looks good. And using the right inserts.
[23:44:11] <bpuk> also, yowza. You need a plunge EDM :P (not that the lathe isn't nifty, they're just... handy)
[23:44:21] <andypugh> No, I still have to turn the spindle by hand, but that washing machine motor might fix that :-)
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[23:45:16] <bpuk> did you ever update the wiki page on how to do it? From memory there was *almost*, but not quite enough info to replicate it
[23:45:34] <bpuk> also, this new computer is crazy quiet
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[23:47:39] <bpuk> oh - I tried to get a quote for a photo-etched encoder disk - but they decided the line count was slightly too high at 294 LPI. Which is a shame, as that would have allowed me to use the 8500 series 3 channel encoder
[23:50:20] <skunkworks> andypugh: very cool!
[23:52:15] <andypugh> I will update the Wiki. For hex-faceting I wrote a different, new, component.,
[23:52:49] <andypugh> It now knows the working diameter, so makes a correct hex of arbitrary size, internal or external.
[23:53:13] <bpuk> that's useful
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