Back
[00:00:33] <Tom_itx> starter?
[00:01:58] <andypugh> I can imagine that live to either 29 or 31 runs the motor one way or the other, with the cap making the other phase lag, to give a sense of rotation. Like a capacitor-run motor, but with symmetrical windings.
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[00:02:26] <JT-Shop> ok, that even makes some sense to me
[00:02:44] <andypugh> Black is marked FD andRV on the lower motor.
[00:02:52] <andypugh> So it fits.
[00:03:08] <JT-Shop> it is a fwd/rev motor for sure
[00:03:21] <andypugh> Odd way to do it, if the machine has three-phase
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[00:04:19] <JT-Shop> it's my ATC which crapped out yesterday
[00:05:26] <andypugh> Ah.
[00:05:58] <andypugh> If the motor just buzzes in both directions, then C100 looks like a likely culprit.
[00:06:16] <JT-Shop> still not sure of the root problem but the relay appears to have welded the contacts so the motor runs all the time now
[00:07:01] <JT-Shop> I suspect the gearbox is borked and wonder what started the symptom
[00:07:44] <JT-Shop> if the in position prox died that could be the root of the problem
[00:08:45] <JT-Shop> we seem to be getting some strange first posts on the forum
[00:08:59] <andypugh> I found that my new mill is a lot stiffer then the old one, but that it also has a lot more play in the vertical slide.
[00:09:21] <andypugh> I had the knee off, and I think I need to re-adjust the gibbs.
[00:11:13] <JT-Shop> what do you think of this post
http://linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/forum/30-cnc-machines/7716-from-anilam-to-emc2?start=18
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[00:17:24] <andypugh> Well, the original thread starter went with Mach3. I am not sure if he ever got it going.
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[00:26:35] <JT-Shop> goodnight all
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[00:34:56] <pcw_home> JT-Shop: other than jumping on an old thread I'm sure the guys legit
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[00:37:04] <pcw_home> He emailed me previously about whether I had any direct knowledge
[00:37:06] <pcw_home> of Anilam Crusader retrofits and I suggested asking on the forum
[00:38:42] <skunkworks> andypugh: how is the hobbing?
[00:39:51] <andypugh> Actually hobbing is some weeks away. Today was mainly spent stripping, cleaning, and assembling properly the rotary table.
[00:40:50] <skunkworks> awww - I am living vicariously through you.... ;)
[00:40:51] <andypugh> Tomorrow might see me attaching a motor so see if the ones I have have sufficient grunt.
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[00:46:33] <ReadError> http://brainspl.at/4th-axis.jpg
[00:46:43] <ReadError> thats the 4th axis one of the guys in the reprap chan made
[00:48:26] <ReadError> 485oz stepper on it
[00:51:49] <ReadError> gives a resolution of 0.1125degrees/step
[00:51:54] <ReadError> on 1/16th stepping
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[01:00:36] <skunkworks> I think andy needs a little more umph than direct drive
[01:01:36] <skunkworks> ReadError: you don't get much more accuracy than about 1/2 step...
[01:02:53] <skunkworks> so he is lucky if he will get .9 deg resolution
[01:03:00] <ReadError> oh
[01:03:41] <skunkworks> microstepping makes things smoother - less chance of resonence - not more resolution...
[01:03:54] <skunkworks> resonance
[01:04:34] <ReadError> still a pretty novel concept
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[01:05:09] <ReadError> so...i was planning on building a cnc router
[01:05:25] <ReadError> do most consumer off the shelf routers have much run out?
[01:05:29] <ReadError> or not much to speak of
[01:08:15] <skunkworks> this is what andy is wanting to do - but bigger. (this is actually andy...)
[01:08:16] <skunkworks> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhICrb0Tbn4
[01:09:04] <skunkworks> the couple we have are around .007...
[01:09:46] <ReadError> andy sounds very sophisticated
[01:09:52] <ReadError> he makes us americans sound dumb :(
[01:13:54] <skunkworks> we don't need andy for that...
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[01:17:57] <lwizardl> hello
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[01:18:18] <skunkworks> lwizardl: hello
[01:19:28] <lwizardl> I'm looking for some open source and good CAD software. I'm looking to do layouts of cardboard boxes.
[01:20:24] <ReadError> openscad ?
[01:21:50] <lwizardl> that looks like it will work
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[01:35:55] <andypugh> I currently have two CNC (stepper) rotary axes, this is the slow/high torque one:
http://youtu.be/DQlGAGt_zcM
[01:36:17] <andypugh> (the fast one was in the video skunkworks linked to).
[01:38:53] <andypugh> The new mill is going to have a servo-driven one of these:
http://homews.co.uk/Lrgsales50.jpg
[01:40:51] <andypugh> It has already been done (
http://divisionmaster.co.uk/examples.html ) but I hope to find a more compact way to attach the motor.
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[02:02:45] <skunkworks> cool
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[02:22:43] <L33TG33KG34R> hello guys
[02:22:55] <L33TG33KG34R> I am very confused about hardware required to run linux
[02:23:05] <L33TG33KG34R> well linuxcnc in particular
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[02:32:10] <andypugh> L33TG33KG34R: You need "A computer"
[02:32:34] <andypugh> What do you have?
[02:32:35] <jdh> and some sort of IO
[02:32:49] <L33TG33KG34R> well I plan on using mesa cards and hardware
[02:32:58] <andypugh> Well, you can run LinuxCNC without any IO, though it would be frustrating.
[02:33:15] <L33TG33KG34R> I looked at the hardware requirements online and it said that its buggy if ram is greater than 1 GB
[02:33:23] <L33TG33KG34R> I don't have any boards at home that work
[02:33:47] <L33TG33KG34R> I went online to find something useable and everything costs as much as a brand new build
[02:34:11] <L33TG33KG34R> I don't know what to do :( I found a CPU/Mobo/RAM combo for under $150
[02:34:11] <jdh> what do you have that doesnt' work?
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[02:34:36] <L33TG33KG34R> none of my boards post because they failed earlier for reasons I don't want to get into
[02:34:41] <jdh> I use 2 & 4GB in mine (atom d525)
[02:35:03] <L33TG33KG34R> yeah the atom board alone costs as much as the new proc/mobo combo I can get locally
[02:35:05] <L33TG33KG34R> new
[02:35:06] <jdh> $90 mobo, $15 ram, $35 case. I used old hard drives
[02:35:19] <andypugh> The LiveCD install is buggy with more than (I think) 3.5GB. The workaround is to disconnect from the internet during install (or temporarily remove some RAM)
[02:35:41] <L33TG33KG34R> well I won't be using a live cd install instead it will be off USB
[02:35:53] <cradek> andypugh: I thought I fixed that a long time ago
[02:35:58] <L33TG33KG34R> so is it alright to use 2/4GB ram and new hardware?
[02:36:07] <andypugh> Sounds like it.
[02:36:31] <jdh> I installed the livecd from a month or so ago with 4GB. NO problems
[02:36:33] <andypugh> Note that the Atom boards include the CPU, as it is soldered on.
[02:36:52] <andypugh> Sory cradek, I am recycling bad info.
[02:37:30] <cradek> andypugh: well it's impossible to know the past with certainty. I sympathize.
[02:37:53] <cradek> andypugh: I'm 90% sure I fixed that and ... some other problems ... with the cd
[02:38:09] <andypugh> L33TG33KG34R: We like the Atom boards because they run fanless on low-power PSUs and have good latency.
[02:38:51] <andypugh> Are you planning a stepper or servo system?
[02:39:08] <L33TG33KG34R> stepper
[02:39:17] <L33TG33KG34R> with maybe encoder feedback in the future
[02:40:24] <andypugh> Feel free to carry on studying, but you are likely to end up with a D525MW (or the currrent equivalent) fitted with the Mesa 5i25 and 7i76 "plug-n-go" kit.
[02:40:47] <L33TG33KG34R> hmm...
[02:40:51] <r00t4rd3d> http://i.imgur.com/MERil.jpg
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[02:42:10] <andypugh> That's someting like $80 for the PC, $200 for the Mesa cards. Add $25 for a PicoPSU and $30 for an 8GB flash SSD (planty for a CNC controller) and £15 for a stick ot ram. Then make chips.
[02:43:19] <andypugh> r00t4rd3d: Skillfull tinwork, but I am not sure I like the result.
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[02:48:47] <archivist> andypugh, you took a new vertex to bits? did it have shims and adjustment for the worm to gear location?
[02:49:44] <andypugh> It might not actually be a true Vertex. It is badged "Axminster" though the design appears the same.
[02:50:29] <andypugh> The worm-to-gear is adjusted with an eccentric. The worm has a ball pressed in the end, whch bears on an adjusting screw to remove worm axial float.
[02:50:48] <archivist> yes there are vertex ripoff about my B axis is a ripoff but the A is real
[02:51:19] <andypugh> Mine seems to have a nastier version of the rear bearing / clamp than the pictures from Vertex.
[02:51:20] <andypugh> ]
[02:51:44] <archivist> vertex publish a real spec for angular error, others ....
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[02:52:31] <andypugh> I think it will do for my purposes though.
[02:52:46] <archivist> and I have had a few surprises with angular error :)
[02:54:25] <archivist> was there any adjustment to centralise the gear to worm axis
[02:54:47] <andypugh> Fore and aft, you mean?
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[02:57:18] <archivist> actually thinking about the eccentric which mine has too, that must put the worm axis off the correct plane
[02:57:35] <archivist> except if lucky
[02:58:12] <andypugh> I assume it is a plain gear, rather than enveloping.
[02:59:23] <archivist> for plain after it had worn a bit that could be worse
[03:00:27] <archivist> I must get the colimator and test mine like I tested some a while ago
[03:01:53] <archivist> some "quality" stuff had over a 1/5 degree peak to peak error
[03:02:07] <archivist> 1/2 degree
[03:04:09] <t12> todays discovery was that the lathe coolant pump was wired backwards
[03:04:14] <t12> that or the entire lathe is wired backwards
[03:08:18] <L33TG33KG34R> this motherboard
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131878 with this processor
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116408 and this ram
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820139996
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[03:10:21] <L33TG33KG34R> costs $10 more than
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813153240
[03:10:48] <L33TG33KG34R> er, sorry
[03:10:55] <L33TG33KG34R> costs $10 less than
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813153242
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[03:15:02] <andypugh> http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813121596 includes the CPU and has a parallel port (so you could add a 7i43 if you really ran out of IO. Not that that is likely when you can have 216 IO lines from a single 5i25 card.
[03:15:45] <andypugh> You seem to be missing the point that the Jetway has the CPU pre-installed.
[03:16:37] <andypugh> Ah, no, you may not be. I am getting confused. It happens a lot.
[03:16:58] <archivist> age... /me ducks
[03:17:39] <andypugh> Time for me to sleep, I think.
[03:17:43] <L33TG33KG34R> I understand that these atom boards have embedded CPUs on them but atom is going the way of the dodo bird... I don't want to be stuck down the road with obsolete hardware.
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[03:18:56] <skunkworks> heh
[03:19:00] <skunkworks> sorry
[03:19:21] <L33TG33KG34R> please speak your mind. this is the internet...
[03:19:55] <skunkworks> if you buy something that has a repalceable cpu - by the time you think it is obsolite - it will be.
[03:20:08] <skunkworks> obsolete
[03:21:46] <skunkworks> as in - you won't be able to buy a cpu that will perform on even close with what the now current motherboards/cpu combos
[03:21:59] <L33TG33KG34R> well at least I will be able to find some cpu's floating around. even if it is obsolete. I just don't like getting an already dying product. 1155 is still going strong. not to mention theres also AMD to look at.
[03:23:13] <L33TG33KG34R> I understand that linuxcnc needs almost nothing in hardware to work, compared to typical desktop boards. dishing out $80 for low performance hardware doesn't make sense.
[03:25:05] <skunkworks> eh - I could go either way...
[03:25:47] <L33TG33KG34R> even the amd APUs fell short
[03:25:59] <L33TG33KG34R> well the fusion series any way
[03:26:20] <L33TG33KG34R> or else I would run custom hardware, like an arm board to run linuxcnc
[03:26:52] <L33TG33KG34R> its really easy to design one not to mention the 1000s that are online just waiting to have linux installed on them
[03:28:00] <skunkworks> sure. Just an fyi - the latest amd processors I have played with have pretty crappy latency
[03:28:12] <skunkworks> like 30-40us
[03:28:37] <L33TG33KG34R> what do you mean?
[03:30:33] <skunkworks> let me see if I can find an example
[03:31:59] <skunkworks> this processor
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819106014
[03:32:24] <skunkworks> this motherboard
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131871
[03:32:41] <skunkworks> I bought an older version also - same issue - poor latency
[03:33:11] <skunkworks> I don't know if it is because of the apu - but adding a video card didn't help
[03:34:54] <skunkworks> or just happened to be that combo sucks. Though I have had good luck with amd and asus for linuxcnc up to this point
[03:35:15] <ReadError> AMD is crap
[03:35:21] <ReadError> plain and simple ;)
[03:35:36] <L33TG33KG34R> ReadError: I used to think that but not true
[03:35:39] <ReadError> they have not had a good cpu since the athlon xp
[03:35:44] <ReadError> true story.
[03:36:33] <L33TG33KG34R> yes comparing processors per core, intel has better performance vs amd
[03:37:02] <L33TG33KG34R> but they are truely cheap
[03:37:11] <L33TG33KG34R> great for budget builds and such
[03:37:20] <ReadError> yea but cheap stuff is not always good
[03:37:33] <ReadError> i would rather spend the extra 50 and get something good
[03:37:41] <L33TG33KG34R> yes but can be fore its application
[03:37:44] <L33TG33KG34R> for*
[03:38:04] <L33TG33KG34R> htpcs are one of them if you are trying to go extremely cheap
[03:38:07] <ReadError> i would rather not induce that into my household.
[03:38:40] <L33TG33KG34R> I wouldn't either but for linuxcnc, I would think the reason its slower is because of its cache
[03:38:48] <ReadError> i have erm, 6 intel boxes
[03:38:52] <ReadError> and 2 intel laptops
[03:38:55] <ReadError> amd, not even once
[03:39:07] <ReadError> but like i said, it was solid during the athlon xp days for a bit
[03:39:13] <ReadError> but since then, nogusta.
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[03:39:46] <L33TG33KG34R> skunkworks: can you find the processors you used previously before you had the problem with latencies?
[03:40:08] <skunkworks> phenom - does that sound right>
[03:40:11] <skunkworks> ?
[03:40:20] <L33TG33KG34R> yes, but which phenom?
[03:40:28] <skunkworks> hmm
[03:40:54] <L33TG33KG34R> dual cores? quads?
[03:40:58] <L33TG33KG34R> tri? hex?
[03:42:16] <ReadError> who the heck makes a tricore
[03:42:18] <ReadError> thats so dumb
[03:42:25] <ReadError> (AMD)
[03:43:17] <L33TG33KG34R> they were quadcore silicon with one core partially or entirely non functioning. instead of discarding them, they chose to lock down the bad core and sell them at a cheaper price. great way to reduce waste.
[03:44:00] <L33TG33KG34R> its like the clearance bin for open/ed box in stores
[03:44:16] <ReadError> yea but why would i want to buy broken hardware
[03:44:43] <L33TG33KG34R> well, its not like they advertised it as quadcore. so technically not broken.
[03:45:07] <L33TG33KG34R> the broken part is isolated from the working parts
[03:45:18] <skunkworks> I had a bunch - don't think the number of cores really effected the latency
[03:45:21] <ReadError> but why would i buy that when i can get a 2500K cheap
[03:46:12] <L33TG33KG34R> it takes a great deal of effort to manufacture wafers of silicon. why waste stuff that works? they even dropped the price on them
[03:46:20] <skunkworks> here we go....
http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/testing/asus%20m2n68-am%20plus%20motherboard%20with%20amd%20phenom%20x4%209600b%20%28quad%20core%202.3ghz%29.jpg
[03:46:26] <ReadError> and im fairly certain that price:performance ratio
[03:46:30] <ReadError> intel has them beat
[03:46:58] <L33TG33KG34R> yeah... but still amd has their niche and they have it locked down pretty tight
[03:47:26] <skunkworks> I think that is actually what is in the K&T
[03:47:38] <L33TG33KG34R> the cheapest intel proc is ~100 - 120 USD
[03:47:47] <L33TG33KG34R> K&T?
[03:49:27] <skunkworks> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39q6kvrSBSk
[03:49:53] <skunkworks> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/oldkandt.JPG
[03:50:50] <ReadError> http://www.cpubenchmark.net/common_cpus.html#cpuvalue
[03:51:01] <ReadError> amd does not even place in the top 5
[03:51:10] <ReadError> well, its 5th
[03:51:30] <L33TG33KG34R> lol
[03:51:48] <L33TG33KG34R> that machine is HUGE!
[03:52:02] <skunkworks> yes :)
[03:52:04] <ReadError> maybe not even
[03:52:08] <ReadError> lower is better
[03:53:11] <L33TG33KG34R> is the spindle hydraulic too?
[03:55:18] <skunkworks> not anymore
[03:57:55] <skunkworks> ReadError: I don't think lower is better - if it is performance/price - lower the price - higher the number.
[03:58:27] <ReadError> when i add my cnc router
[03:58:43] <ReadError> i was wondering if i should get a mesa card or a PCI-e parport card
[03:58:51] <ReadError> i dont want to swap the cable each time
[03:58:56] <L33TG33KG34R> mesa has pci-e parport card
[03:59:14] <ReadError> yea, but a straight pci-e card is much cheaper
[03:59:25] <ReadError> i have a d525 so my slots are somewhat limited
[03:59:28] <L33TG33KG34R> hope that its not buffered
[04:00:15] <ReadError> i need to decide also, if i should go with a dwalt/OTC router
[04:00:25] <ReadError> or spend the 2-300$ on a nicer one
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[04:02:23] <skunkworks> 5i25 alone acts like 2 printer ports...
[04:02:44] <skunkworks> not to mention what you can get in daughter boards....
[04:02:59] <ReadError> how much are those? 200?
[04:03:06] <skunkworks> 89 iirc
[04:03:07] <ReadError> i have never found a good price for them
[04:04:34] <skunkworks> 5I25-SP PCI Anything I/O – 34/ I/O bits LX9 Spartan6 FPGA Standard profile $89
[04:05:18] <ReadError> got the link?
[04:05:48] <skunkworks> http://mesanet.com/
[04:05:54] <skunkworks> left side - price list
[04:09:32] <skunkworks> http://mesanet.com/fpgacardinfo.html
[04:09:35] <skunkworks> cool card
[04:14:36] <skunkworks> I am using 2 of their big brothers...
http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/conversion/computermesa.JPG
[04:15:01] <ReadError> for 1 machine? or multiple
[04:17:26] <skunkworks> one machine
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[04:18:11] <skunkworks> http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/conversion/panel/electricalbox.jpg
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[04:19:54] <ReadError> holy i/o
[04:20:09] <L33TG33KG34R> hehehe... this is nothing compared to where I work
[04:20:49] <L33TG33KG34R> but still, impressive
[04:22:32] <ReadError> i estimate zapping myself 4 times building that, and possibly 2 smaller fires
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[04:23:49] <skunkworks> the 2 mesa cards setup as they are gave me 10 axis (+/-10v and encoder counters) and 96 i/o. I pretty much used it all up.
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[04:29:57] <ReadError> holy crap
[04:30:07] <ReadError> how????
[04:31:18] <skunkworks> how what?
[04:32:24] <skunkworks> did you see that video? 4 axis - 16 speed gearbox - 60 tool chain, changer, pallets..... lots of i/o needed
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[04:41:31] <L33TG33KG34R> what did you use for the main board and processor?
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[04:45:30] <skunkworks2> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/testing/asus%20m2n68-am%20plus%20motherboard%20with%20amd%20phenom%20x4%209600b%20%28quad%20core%202.3ghz%29.jpg
[04:46:37] <skunkworks2> I am pretty sure that is the motherboard and processor
[04:49:40] <L33TG33KG34R> how does that give me mobo and proc?
[04:50:09] <L33TG33KG34R> ah
[04:50:10] <L33TG33KG34R> nvm
[04:50:14] <L33TG33KG34R> sorry
[04:51:39] <skunkworks2> heh
[04:52:15] <skunkworks2> just have to read between the &
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[05:03:26] <Gene45> Skunkworks: Hats of to you
[05:08:10] <skunkworks2> thanks - linuxcnc has worked awesome
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[05:17:39] <L33TG33KG34R> well, this is a sight for sore eyes
[05:17:40] <L33TG33KG34R> http://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/MX41064
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[05:34:53] <Gene45> Skunkworks2: How did you select servos and power supply?
[05:42:31] <frysteev> hey sill question for usb parrell port adapters
[05:42:44] <frysteev> i know they are useless for actual control,
[05:43:08] <frysteev> but are they good enough for something not mission critical , looking turning coolant on and off?
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[08:18:12] <DJ9DJ> moin
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[12:23:18] <yskapell> hello
[12:23:30] <yskapell> where can I download a trial for emc powerpath?
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[12:26:56] <cncbasher> yskapell: sorry your in the wrong irc channel for that , nothing to do with linuxcnc
[12:28:57] <ReadError> scumbag emc
[12:29:51] <yskapell> sorry
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[12:44:16] <IchGuckLive> hi all B)
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[15:31:24] <skunkworks> Mmmm blueberry pancakes
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[17:00:24] <mikeggg> haha. we just finished blueberry pancakes ourselves
[17:01:04] * JT-Shop tries real hard to not post this response "Best hint I have is RTFM then ask a real question..."
[17:01:28] <archivist> go on post it I dare you
[17:01:41] * archivist ducks
[17:02:20] <archivist> and dreams of pancakes with a sprinkle of sugar and some lemon
[17:02:33] <ReadError> http://www.cncrouterparts.com/crp2448-2-x-4-cnc-router-kit-p-164.html
[17:02:39] <ReadError> opinion? yay or nay ?
[17:05:28] <archivist> nay for me, price and it is rack and pinion therefore can have backlash
[17:05:58] <ReadError> whats a better option you are aware of?
[17:06:33] * JT-Shop tosses a herring to the east
[17:07:37] <archivist> for what definition of better :)
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[17:07:55] <ReadError> a decent router kit
[17:08:03] <ReadError> i mean i could source everything myself i suppose
[17:08:23] <JT-Shop> good, fast, cheap never go in the same sentance :)
[17:09:00] <Tom_itx> pick 2
[17:11:41] <JT-Shop> we seem to be getting a rash of strange replies in the forum
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[17:17:15] <ReadError> im looking for a decent sized cutting area
[17:17:26] <ReadError> the backlash that comes from the rack/pinion
[17:17:35] <ReadError> is it consistent to where it can be dialed out via software?
[17:17:56] <L84Supper> by use of an encoder
[17:18:52] <archivist> backlash can be the cause of cutter breakage
[17:19:04] <andypugh> I think that you can arrange for the rack-pinion to have fairly low backlash by running deeper mesh, for example.
[17:19:09] <archivist> especially if climb milling
[17:19:16] <L84Supper> http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/cnc-router/kl6045-desktop-cnc-router-with-3-stepper-motors
[17:19:23] <ReadError> well it has a tensioning spring
[17:19:31] <ReadError> i figured that would dial out a good portion of it
[17:19:38] <JT-Shop> isn't there some scheme to have two gears on the rack to reduce backlash
[17:20:11] <andypugh> Anti-backlash gears might work. Two gears with a spring to twist one relative to the toher.
[17:20:41] <andypugh> Double helical gears would let you eliminate backlash simply by biasing the gear sideways.
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[17:21:07] <andypugh> Not that I have ever seen doubel-helical rack.
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[17:21:10] <IchGuckLive> hi all
[17:21:26] <IchGuckLive> i got realy to mutch time ! Sunday ->
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOqn0pIVZeo
[17:21:30] <andypugh> I like the Bell-Everman Servobelt idea, and that is what I would use.
[17:21:46] <IchGuckLive> Spring analysis on mittelpoint behevior of ProE
[17:21:50] <L84Supper> that's the fun of engineering, how to do it, comparing all the variables
[17:22:06] <L84Supper> and whatever you value your own time to be
[17:22:08] <JT-Shop> is that the one that has a fixed belt and the second belt rides in the teeth of the other?
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[17:23:06] <ReadError> http://www.cncrouterparts.com/images/R&P.jpg
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[17:24:00] <L84Supper> giant spring on pinion, just keep it heavily loaded to one direction
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[17:24:23] <L84Supper> replace gear and motors as required :)
[17:24:27] <andypugh> JT-Shop: That's the one.
[17:24:28] <ReadError> http://www.cncrouterparts.com/images/IMG_0747_.JPG
[17:24:45] <ReadError> thats the spring to keep the mesh tight
[17:24:48] <JT-Shop> that is a pretty neat system and fast IIRC
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[17:26:37] <L84Supper> http://shop70018708.taobao.com/ you're making a cheap router for soft parts, not a precision mill
[17:27:42] <archivist> squiggles and no pics here
[17:27:51] <andypugh> It's very clever. Pretty much as rigid as a rack and pinion, but no backlash. Because the static belt is bonded to the rails it's like having a very short belt, and so there is not much spring.
[17:27:58] <andypugh> http://www.bell-evermannews.com/wp-content/gallery/biomedical-servobelt/servobelt-mini-gantry-assembly-closeup.jpg
[17:28:21] <ReadError> interesting andypugh
[17:28:37] <L84Supper> just more flex to the belt
[17:28:59] <andypugh> It looks to be successfully making the transition from "interesting hobby idea" to "profitable commercial product"
[17:29:17] <L84Supper> just needs a nice composite belt
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[17:29:35] <andypugh> One cool thing about the servobelt is that it can go round curves. Possibly variable-radius curves.
[17:31:15] <andypugh> Also, because there is a belt in the belt, it should be pretty resistant to contamination.
[17:34:47] <JT-Shop> http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/threads/57407-Manual-Bridgeport-Series-One-2J-Head-CNC-Retrofit
[17:36:55] <L84Supper> http://www.bell-everman.com/whats-new/bell-everman-news/item/72-servonut-replaces-linear-motor-on-large-format-printer servo-nut vs servo-belt
[17:37:59] <ReadError> http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-5KW-WATER-COOLE-MILLING-AND-GRINDING-SPINDLE-MOTOR-INVERTER-DRIVE-VFD-f6-/230715508514?_trksid=p2047675.m2109&_trkparms=aid%3D555003%26algo%3DPW.CAT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D154%26meid%3D4687955620156391538%26pid%3D100010%26prg%3D1091%26rk%3D4%26sd%3D321049786432%26
[17:38:11] <ReadError> seems nice
[17:38:32] <IchGuckLive> finish for the polasma construct today first Freecad use
[17:39:01] <L84Supper> from China, haven't heard any complaints yet from anyone that's used them
[17:39:35] <L84Supper> other than they overrate the capacity, so get one oversized
[17:39:47] <ReadError> L84Supper: on that spindle ?
[17:40:54] <L84Supper> ReadError: you found a US supplier of those Chinese spindles
[17:41:23] <Tom_itx> how are the bearings in them?
[17:41:38] <L84Supper> scroll down the page for the source
[17:41:42] <andypugh> They claim that the bearings are from Germany.
[17:41:53] <IchGuckLive> http://mechmo.de/plasma.jpg my plasma drawing
[17:42:08] <IchGuckLive> german bearing is good
[17:42:10] <andypugh> Which is interesting, as I didn't know the Germans were big in bearings. Sweden, France, UK and Japan, yes.
[17:42:15] <IchGuckLive> comes all from china
[17:42:17] <skunkworks> Gene45: we picked the seros/amps/powersupplies by what was the least expensive. The servos came out of a 80's vintage HMC - 8 brush high torque. (currently with the drives we have - 40ft-lbs peak) Amc drives off ebay.
[17:42:21] <L84Supper> ShanHai Hangzhou Medical Equipment Plant
[17:42:54] <L84Supper> they are about a hours drive away
[17:42:58] <Tom_itx> german bearings made in china?
[17:43:00] <Tom_itx> :)
[17:43:17] <L84Supper> I will get around to visiting them by the spring
[17:43:35] <IchGuckLive> Madler the bigest suplier of Norms wait every day for shipment of out stock parts
[17:43:50] <IchGuckLive> telling costemer its on the ship !
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[17:44:48] <andypugh> It's hard to say where bearings are made, as the big manufaturers (SKF, RHP, NTN, FAG) all make bearings for each other. It works out better to make 4 x the number of 1/4 the range each.
[17:44:50] <L84Supper> "This spindle motor adopts Germany imported bearing" so what adopts actually means i don't know
[17:44:55] <Tom_itx> 8k-24krpm is a bit much for some milling jobs
[17:45:56] <L84Supper> could be a German bearing or maybe they had Weisebeer for lunch when they made them
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[17:48:36] <L84Supper> http://www.soigeneris.com/smoothstepper-details.aspx why would anyone prefer this to Linuxcnc + Mesa?
[17:49:35] <archivist> they use windows on a laptop
[17:49:42] <ReadError> Tom_itx
[17:49:49] <ReadError> im going to be cutting CF/G10 mostly
[17:50:04] <ReadError> so i think a higher rpm would be better?
[17:50:28] <L84Supper> ReadError: making PCB's?
[17:50:33] <skunkworks> L84Supper: because it isn't linux
[17:50:40] <ReadError> L84Supper: ive done some yea
[17:50:42] <L84Supper> heh
[17:50:47] <ReadError> but i would rather just do that on my taig
[17:51:00] <ReadError> maybe some aluminum work
[17:51:11] <andypugh> It might be useful to re-structure LinuxCNC to allow buffering of motion commands to those devices.
[17:52:13] <skunkworks> andypugh: yeck
[17:52:15] <skunkworks> ;)
[17:52:18] <andypugh> The only practcal drawback is that you only get the features included in the board firmware. (so, for example, probing and threading need to be controlled by the board, not the PC)
[17:52:43] <L84Supper> something like a single axis SLA printer doesn't require any realtime, just short slow moves
[17:52:49] <skunkworks> plus feed rate override, feed hold and such need to be re-thought
[17:54:00] <L84Supper> so just STEP, Direction and Enable for 1 axis
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[17:54:24] <L84Supper> but the smoothstepper is ~$160 ea
[17:55:56] <L84Supper> just wondering, I see strange comments in #reprap
[17:55:56] <IchGuckLive> hi i did it (view on freecad )
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6kllGspehQ
[17:56:16] <IchGuckLive> plasma freecad turning
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[18:00:54] <L84Supper> how to get Freecad running on a Mac?
[18:01:15] <L84Supper> already does, nevermind
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[18:02:28] <DJ9DJ> lol "ich finds so schön wenn'er rumdreht" :D
[18:02:58] <DJ9DJ> freecad looks nice
[18:03:44] <pcw_home> Probably the cleanest buffered solution would be to move all of realtime = HAL/motion/some of task) to the remote device. This isgetting more practical all the time. This would require some untangling of RT/non RT tasks
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[18:13:48] <L84Supper> I'm just thinking ahead for LinuxCNC controlled 3d printers that combine tech such as laser, inkjet and spindles
[18:14:17] <skunkworks> why not?
[18:15:53] <L84Supper> real time + non-realtime motion and process control via comedi
[18:16:59] <L84Supper> rather than heading down some new odd path as some reprap applications have done
[18:17:00] <IchGuckLive> DJ9DJ: B)
[18:17:17] <DJ9DJ> :)
[18:17:37] <IchGuckLive> the timelaps between press and turning and then not fix it maes moves in betrwen
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[18:21:59] <IchGuckLive> soomeone here with portugise language Brazil ?
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[18:26:42] <L84Supper> who makes nice small <1HP planetary gearboxes?
[18:27:55] <L84Supper> http://www.ccmmade.com/pic/jufei2/zhuhe/14zuhe.jpg
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[18:29:59] <L84Supper> http://www.kollmorgen.com/en-us/products/gearheads/planetary/nematrue/nematrue/
[18:30:36] <L84Supper> Precision: 13 arc-minutes
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[18:31:11] <archivist> I hate sites like that that redirect to the home page
[18:31:20] <L33TG33KG34R> so, I have ordered the following:
[18:31:32] <L33TG33KG34R> http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131878
[18:31:41] <L33TG33KG34R> http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116408
[18:31:53] <L33TG33KG34R> http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823205018
[18:32:07] <L33TG33KG34R> http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148513
[18:32:15] <L33TG33KG34R> http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16826105447
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[18:33:02] <awallin> why celeron and not i3 or i5 ?
[18:33:10] <p0st4L> whats that for?
[18:33:17] <L33TG33KG34R> because I only had $185 to spend
[18:33:27] <p0st4L> try looking on craigslist
[18:33:28] <L33TG33KG34R> and i3 alone costs $119
[18:33:34] <p0st4L> you might find a better used Dell for that price
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[18:33:54] <L33TG33KG34R> also, LinuxCNC doesn't need the power of an i3
[18:34:19] <awallin> are you going to run the new xenomai kernel? would be interesting to hear the latency numbers
[18:34:22] <L33TG33KG34R> this celeron is way better than the atom d525 everybody is so proud of
[18:34:30] <Jymmm> L33TG33KG34R: Um $80
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813121643
[18:34:57] <L33TG33KG34R> I am not getting an atom period.
[18:35:18] <L33TG33KG34R> I refuse
[18:35:23] <awallin> Jymmm: what graphics does that have? the latest Atom boards don't play nice with linux..
[18:36:49] <L33TG33KG34R> I will conjure up a monitor and psu later on
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[18:37:31] <L84Supper> http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.10.251.ghHU5Y&id=12722663766&_u=1nmdpnqcc74 no way to know what the lash on these might be without trying
[18:37:34] <Jymmm> awallin: fiik
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[18:38:16] <p0st4L> im' using a old ibm thinkpad t61
[18:38:28] <p0st4L> 2.8ghz, 4gb ram, found on CL for $200
[18:38:29] <skunkworks> awallin: I finally found a system that runs xenomai kernel with 'decent' latency. So I think I am installing it right. It just needs some more tweeking...
[18:38:31] <skunkworks> http://imagebin.org/241749
[18:39:12] <awallin> nice GUI there! something recent?
[18:39:27] <L84Supper> German Faulhaber? clone or actual Faulhaber sold out the backdoor?
http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=2013.1.48-8524767654.7.XAJ3PC&id=2612247222
[18:39:43] <skunkworks> awallin: yes - let me find the info
[18:40:03] <L84Supper> skunkworks: memleak posted some configs, he'll be back on it tomorrow
[18:40:50] <skunkworks> awallin:
http://linuxcnc.mah.priv.at/irc/%23linuxcnc/2013-01-03.html#18:04:27
[18:40:57] <skunkworks> dgar did it
[18:41:05] <skunkworks> dgarr
[18:41:32] <L33TG33KG34R> once I get my CNC running and some machining hours under my belt, I think I'll try my hand at making an embedded system for LinuxCNC. With enough bells and whistles to keep most happy while keeping the project opensource and cheap
[18:41:35] <skunkworks> L84Supper: yes - I have been keeping an eye out
[18:41:59] <awallin> cool. that should be pushed into the repo/master!
[18:42:39] <pcw_home> L33TG33KG34R I would also stay away from Atoms for high performance systems (they barely manage a 1 KHz servo thread) I have a similar system to what you have an it does 6 KHz easy
[18:42:52] <L84Supper> skunkworks: he's currently distracted by a new video game..... kids :)
[18:44:50] <L33TG33KG34R> well, the only reason I am so biased against atom is becaused its already on its way to the silicon graveyard
[18:45:47] <L33TG33KG34R> no point is dishing out $100 for a board which will be obsolete much sooner than the sandy bridge celerons
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[18:46:31] <pcw_home> The current D2XXX ones will work +- some video issues
[18:47:05] <L33TG33KG34R> One of the reasons why I am motivated to make an embedded system for LinuxCNC
[18:47:15] <pcw_home> and the new Atoms (end of 2013) should remove the video issues
[18:47:48] <pcw_home> plus be faster
[18:47:51] <L33TG33KG34R> if they survive that long
[18:47:55] <IchGuckLive> ok im off have a nice rest day 1
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[18:48:28] <pcw_home> I have little doubt they will survive
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[18:55:14] <L84Supper> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157324 no video issues with AMD APU's
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[18:56:58] <L84Supper> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130641 down to $45
[18:58:12] <L84Supper> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819106013 $40
[18:59:35] <pcw_home> I have one of the ASUS E-350 MBs but its like the atom (ok for 1 KHz servo but not much more)
[19:00:18] <pcw_home> a Intel h41 - 2180 is ~6 time faster
[19:01:45] <pcw_home> Haven't tried the FM1 (or new FM2 trinity)CPUs
[19:18:01] <L33TG33KG34R> woot! got an isp upgrade!
[19:18:36] <andypugh> L33TG33KG34R: Does it matter if your controller is obsolete as long as it still controls the machine? It won't stop working just because Intel launch a new CPU
[19:18:50] <L33TG33KG34R> I know that
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[19:21:23] <andypugh> I think having no fan on the CPU or the PSU is a big plus for a CNC controller
[19:21:57] <andypugh> But that isn't just Atoms.
[19:22:36] <ReadError> didnt they stop making the d525 ?
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[19:34:04] <L84Supper> pcw_home: we had them working much faster a few months ago, we'll post the howtos when we get started again soon
[19:36:49] <pcw_home> Thanks, I would be interested in low power Atom replacement MB
[19:38:08] <pcw_home> andypugh: did you see my suggested BLDC manual notes?
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[19:50:20] <mrsun> how can i make program wait for spindle spinup ?
[19:50:30] <mrsun> i need to wait like a sec or two for the spindle to spin up
[19:50:36] <mrsun> but do not have any feedback from spindle
[19:51:06] <mrsun> ahh G4
[19:51:08] <mrsun> G4 P1
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[19:54:57] <ReadError> heh so i was looking at this spindle again
[19:55:00] <ReadError> "Adopt Germany Imported Bearing: three times useful time than ordinary spindle motor"
[19:55:14] <ReadError> how long do you suppose that is?
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[19:56:58] <pcw_home> 3 times (too short)?
[20:02:53] <skunkworks> it might be better to simulate your spindle in hal - then use spindle-at-speed pin... (if you want extra credit...)
[20:03:43] <andypugh> pcw_home: Yes, I will put it in next update
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[20:05:06] <pcw_home> Another thing we noticed in trying to get a customers new motor running is that even if you are going to use qh mode its better to get h mode working first
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[20:05:39] <pcw_home> (so all Hall edges are guaranteed to be right as reference points)
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[20:08:44] <L84Supper> I have to try one of your servo boards and the calibration
[20:12:58] <L84Supper> I've used your 7i48 but with a servo amp that handled the HALL sensors
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[20:15:01] <andypugh> pcw_home: Yes. I really need to finish the Wiki page on how to use the bldc component.
[20:16:40] <pcw_home> BLDC is tricky but there are some shortcuts you learn on playing with it
[20:16:42] <pcw_home>
[20:17:02] <andypugh> The 7i39 manual seems to make no mention of what the SenseA and SenseB pins are for...
[20:17:37] <pcw_home> There are just GPIO normally (7I39 just passes them through)
[20:18:12] <andypugh> OK, in that case my 9-core wire is adequate :-)
[20:18:37] <pcw_home> L84Supper yes all the Hall excotica is for simple minded drives (with the brains in HAL comps)
[20:21:37] <pcw_home> I think with Halls, first wire Halls/select pattern so you get monotonic rotor angle in the proper direction for the axis.
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[20:29:14] * skunkworks still drools on mesa hardware
[20:31:39] <pcw_home> Voids the warranty
[20:36:10] <psha> pcw_home: by the power vested in me I voids your warranty! :)
[20:36:14] <psha> ?
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[20:39:25] <L84Supper> isn't IP 65 drool proof?
[20:40:40] <L84Supper> oh, IP 68 for full immersion
[20:43:49] <skunkworks> heh
[20:47:11] <skunkworks> pcw_home: did visters get straitend out then?
[20:48:52] <ReadError> is the 2x1 or 2x2 80/20 pretty rigid stuff?
[20:49:45] <pcw_home> Not sure, but in the mean time ive gotten more familiar with the BLDC comp so can perhaps help more
[20:50:29] <pcw_home> I think his main trouble (at least with speeds) is too slow a servo thread for commutation
[20:51:54] <pcw_home> I also wonder if his problem with jogging is a kins problem
[20:54:40] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[20:55:25] <L84Supper> ReadError: the 40mm metric is pretty stiff, depends on your loads however
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[20:56:19] <ReadError> well i was thinking of doing up a cnc router with some
[20:56:35] <ReadError> seems folks have done it in the past
[20:56:46] <L84Supper> ReadError: it's enough for your router, plus they have an extruded table with t-slots
[20:57:30] <ReadError> im looking at linear motion stuff right now
[20:57:38] <skunkworks> pcw_home: would it be possible to put just the mesa and bldc in a faster thread - keeping motion and everthing else in a slower thread?
[20:58:18] <ReadError> http://www.finelineautomation.com/store/show/FLA102-01
[20:58:33] <ReadError> wasnt sure about going with that or the bar+linear bearings
[20:58:45] <L84Supper> http://www.8020cnc.com/home
[20:58:46] <ReadError> seems like the flat kind would be easier to clean and stuff
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[21:09:09] <pcw_home> skunkworks probably BLDC doesn't do too much math so it should be OK in a base thread
[21:09:11] <pcw_home> but there may be some issues with some modes
[21:10:22] <skunkworks> I suppose pid also would have to be in faster thread
[21:10:41] <skunkworks> say 10khz while everything else in 1khz
[21:11:11] <andypugh> bldc does floating-point, so can't run in the fast thread.
[21:11:44] <andypugh> (Though I am not sure if the fast-threa always has to be the base thread)
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[21:19:28] <pcw_home> I'd forgotton that the base thread cant do floating point
[21:20:28] <andypugh> Which seems a bit arbitrary, really.
[21:21:54] <pcw_home> Found out what the multichannel scaler config is used for (lowres CAT scan of scrap metal for automated sorting)
[21:22:16] <andypugh> Seems exotic
[21:25:20] <pcw_home> I was wondering if it was medical (and hoping it was not)
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[21:31:48] <skunkworks> is the servo thread the only one that can do floating point? can you create a faster thread (not as fast as the base thread..) that is floating point?
[21:31:58] <skunkworks> say 10khz
[21:33:40] <micges> all threads created by 'loadrt threads' are fp
[21:34:10] <micges> and they can be 10kHz but you mus be sure that your pc will handle it
[21:34:16] <skunkworks> cool - so I think that may be a good test....
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[22:01:19] <mrsun> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kb8dRpLC9Og my little X1 doing some work today! =)
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[22:06:10] <skunkworks> so - pid, bldc and mesa in 10khz -> everything else in 1khz thread
[22:07:21] <pcw_home> That may work but I'm not sure what limits the servo thread on Atom MBs
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[22:27:41] <mikeggg> we figured out what the problem with the arduino input was.
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[22:28:27] <mikeggg> the part of the arduino code that prints the input status to serial. Used Serial.print
[22:28:41] <mikeggg> changed it to Serial.write and bam! success
[22:34:06] <skunkworks> awesome!
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[22:36:47] <mikeggg> yeah, I guess they've changed the way that command works since jepler wrote the code
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[22:51:22] <L33TG33KG34R> why did purolator ship 2 different packages?
[22:51:26] <L33TG33KG34R> er newegg*
[23:03:03] <pcw_home> Kickback from Fedex?
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[23:15:04] <andypugh> The mill is starting to get ther now:
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/bzAH1-jDtgO0YUGhxnSBANMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
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[23:34:37] <Tom_itx> andypugh, what's the current addition to it?
[23:35:22] <Tom_itx> i wish i had a nice size mill like that and room for it
[23:36:03] <andypugh> side panel on the controller box, connectors for the 7i39, but the main change today was moving it properly in to place, as it was previously on the diagonal so I could get to all sides.
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[23:36:47] <Tom_itx> all nice n level now?
[23:37:24] <andypugh> I still haven't actually started on the X axis.
[23:37:31] <Tom_itx> so i see
[23:37:43] <Tom_itx> stepper or servo?
[23:38:10] <andypugh> Not levelled either. That might be tricky as the rear feet are inside a panel I can't get to with it in-situ.
[23:38:23] <andypugh> It's got 700W servos (with resolvers)
[23:39:11] <ReadError> oh cool, theres a site that has a bunch of parts already made up in solidworks, like 80/20
[23:39:13] <ReadError> ;)
[23:39:20] <ReadError> should make things easier to plan
[23:39:48] <ReadError> is there a way to generate a bill of materials from pre-fab'd parts within solidworks?
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