#linuxcnc | Logs for 2013-01-04

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[00:03:57] <JT-Shop> I need to build a log splitter
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[00:06:31] <Tom_itx> i made one years back
[00:06:42] <JT-Shop> you still use it?
[00:06:47] <Tom_itx> no i sold it
[00:06:55] <Tom_itx> 2 stage hydraulic pump etc
[00:06:55] <JT-Shop> I've used a double blade axe all my life
[00:08:21] <Tom_itx> i had a used kolar engine i used on it
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[00:10:56] <Tom_itx> err wisconsin...
[00:12:36] <Tom_itx> you probably have something with a PTO you could use
[00:14:09] <JT-Shop> yea, but I don't want to stand behind the tractor while it runs, the exhaust is in the back
[00:16:05] <Tom_itx> mine was on an old truck axle
[00:16:50] <ReadError> !!!
[00:16:57] <ReadError> this 3d mouse works PERFECT in hidcomp :)
[00:18:13] <andypugh> I decided on a solution to my arbor problem. I am making one from scratch.
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[00:18:21] <JT-Shop> cool
[00:18:39] <JT-Shop> I want a log lift and a working table... I think
[00:18:57] <ReadError> http://i.imgur.com/bsJ9B.png
[00:19:48] <JT-Shop> something like this almost http://www.arboristsite.com/attachments/firewood-heating-wood-burning-equipment/218798d1327158567-scan0004-1-jpg
[00:19:52] <andypugh> I spent most of this evening making a BT30 / ISO 30 / 30INT socket to screw on to the lathe spindle nose (I expect to make a fair bit of tooling) and got as far as making the taper. Should be finished tomorrow.
[00:20:23] <ReadError> hey if anyone in the USA wants to buy a discounted set of lathe stuff
[00:20:29] <ReadError> i just got some thats too big ;/
[00:20:31] <ReadError> never been used
[00:21:25] <Tom_itx> what is it?
[00:22:04] <ReadError> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005W16Z24/ref=oh_details_o03_s00_i00
[00:22:14] <ReadError> paid 67.97
[00:22:26] <ReadError> i might be able to make a bigger tool holder
[00:22:35] <ReadError> not sure if the stuff is too oversized for my little lathe though
[00:23:21] <dgarr> jthornton: what kind of trees do you cut for firewood in se mo?
[00:23:26] <TekniQue> I need to get my hands on a 3 jaw chuck for my lathe
[00:23:33] <JT-Shop> oak and hickory
[00:23:47] <Tom_itx> ever burn hedge?
[00:23:48] <JT-Shop> Hi!
[00:24:47] <JT-Shop> my tree smarts are just a little above there are two kinds of trees, pine trees and other trees :)
[00:24:50] <dgarr> are there persimmon tree s in the area?
[00:25:08] <JT-Shop> yes, I have several as well as black walnut
[00:25:10] <andypugh> ReadError: Looks pretty old-school. HSS toolbit holders and dogs for working between centres.
[00:25:27] <Tom_itx> you should use that for finish wood
[00:25:30] <andypugh> All potentially useful for special jobs I guess.
[00:26:02] <JT-Shop> I have one giant tree that is burled all the way up and it grows on a 15 degree angle
[00:26:22] <dgarr> persimmons are in the same genus as ebony (Diospyros) , i've always wanted to try some
[00:27:12] <JT-Shop> I'll check with Ricky and Joe to see if they have any cut up, what size are you looking for?
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[00:27:59] <JT-Shop> http://imagebin.org/241621
[00:28:27] <JT-Shop> I'm not even sure what kind of tree that is...
[00:29:40] <dgarr> 10 in diam rounds or less, split through the pith
[00:29:52] <dgarr> a lot of woodturners would like those burls
[00:30:01] <ReadError> andypugh: well i was going to sell it for 50$ shipped or so
[00:30:33] <andypugh> No good to me, I am in the UK (and my lathe is fairly small too)
[00:30:38] <JT-Shop> what does "split through the pith" mean?
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[00:31:11] <andypugh> Pith Helmets are poor protection against Orcs.
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[00:32:03] <JT-Shop> my great uncle wore a pith helmet
[00:32:32] <dgarr> through the center, it may help reduce cracking on drying; turners often use chainsaw to rip through center
[00:32:58] <andypugh> I can see it might reduce shaking.
[00:33:03] <JT-Shop> dgarr: I'll let you know what I find
[00:33:30] <JT-Shop> rip it lenght wise like splitting firewood?
[00:33:31] <dgarr> sure -- no pressure:P
[00:33:38] <dgarr> yes
[00:34:03] <JT-Shop> Ricky says he does not have any... I'll keep on the lookout
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[00:34:40] * JT-Shop retires to the cocina to make mexican food for dinner
[00:34:43] <JT-Shop> goodnight all
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[00:37:42] <ReadError> well im pretty thrilled this 3d mouse works on hidcomp
[00:37:50] <ReadError> this would make a sweet pendant
[00:38:09] <tjb1> 3d connexion?
[00:38:14] <ReadError> yea
[00:38:19] <ReadError> http://i.imgur.com/bsJ9B.png
[00:38:28] <ReadError> guess i posted it before you came
[00:38:36] <ReadError> but everything got picked up perfect
[00:38:37] <tjb1> I have one of them
[00:38:55] <ReadError> oh word
[00:39:01] <ReadError> yea bit of a learning curve it seems
[00:39:07] <ReadError> but im getting pretty decent with it
[00:40:56] <ReadError> you try it on your plasma yet ?
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[00:45:36] <alex4nder> he
[00:45:37] <alex4nder> y
[00:48:03] <ReadError> sup alex4nder
[00:49:00] <ReadError> http://lh3.ggpht.com/_aNjK3CTQ0DE/TS329yqS80I/AAAAAAAAMxI/TXU0r73znsg/s1600-h/pzich21%5B3%5D.jpg
[00:49:05] <ReadError> you see that i posted the other day?
[00:49:33] <jdh> looks too clean.
[00:49:56] <ReadError> its not mine ;)
[00:50:37] <jdh> I need some 7.5" OD, 7.25" ID rigid tubing of some sort
[00:51:21] <AR_> too bad
[00:52:34] <AR_> whose is that, ReadError ?
[00:52:41] <AR_> looks like what i'm working on building
[00:52:47] <AR_> or dreaming about, anyway
[00:53:33] <ReadError> it was on the cartertools blog
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[00:53:58] <ReadError> super riced up taig
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[01:07:19] <ReadError> i should put a condom or some type of wrapper over this thing when i cut with it
[01:07:25] <ReadError> dont want to get chips and stuff inside it
[01:07:29] <ReadError> maybe some saran wrap
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[02:09:04] <gmouer> anyone real familiar with the mesa 7i77 ? I want to use one of the 32 inputs for analog, the mesa manual says it can do that but I suspect hostmot does not handle it with this particular board.
[02:09:55] <skunkworks> that would probably be a question for pcw and or andypugh
[02:09:57] <andypugh> I think it ought to be possible
[02:10:04] <skunkworks> heh
[02:10:35] <andypugh> Let me look at the manuals...
[02:10:43] <gmouer> hi andy, the manual says it can be done in data mode 1 or mode 2, I "suspect" the standard hm2 interface for that board is mode 3
[02:10:50] <gmouer> look at pg 19 andy
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[02:13:40] <andypugh> loadrt hm2_pci config="sserial_port_0=30000000" should do the trick.
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[02:14:29] <andypugh> (or whatever mode you fancy)
[02:14:31] <gmouer> does that line of code put the board in mode 3?
[02:15:18] <andypugh> It puts the sserial device on channel 0 in mode 3. I am fairly sure that will be the 7i77 if it is on the D-sub
[02:15:37] <andypugh> It's an edit of the HAL file
[02:15:56] <andypugh> man hostmot2 for details..
[02:16:14] <gmouer> I already have the 7i77 operational using pncconf, just wanted to add a pot using one of the inputs if possible
[02:16:40] <gmouer> will have to research what mode pncconf loads the hm2 code in by default
[02:16:59] <gmouer> don't want to screw up everything else that is setup and working presently
[02:17:17] <andypugh> mode3 gives you encoder inputs too, might be better than a pot depending on what you want it for (very cheap 16-pulse rotary switches exist)
[02:17:35] <andypugh> Default is mode 0
[02:18:02] <andypugh> incrementing the mode just adds pins, so shiouldn't break anything.
[02:18:08] <gmouer> have to see what mode pncconf loads hm2 in
[02:18:47] <andypugh> I think PNCConf leaves the config blank, but as I have never used it....
[02:19:01] <gmouer> I looked around my hal pins for hm2 and did not find any analog pins for the 32 inputs at all, only bit values
[02:19:35] <gmouer> looked around the parameters for hm2 also and didn't see anything that hinted at analog useage on the 32 inputs
[02:20:10] <andypugh> Yes, default is mode zero as PNCConf has no idea how many modes any particular card supports, and has no way to find out. (we need to fix that)
[02:20:48] <gmouer> I think I am getting the picture
[02:21:28] <andypugh> The magic invocation is the sserial_port_0 thing, which is described here: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man9/hostmot2.9.html#Smart%20Serial%20Interface
[02:21:32] <gmouer> so if I edit the hal to loadrt in mode 3, then would some additional pins appear supporting analog? (non bit?)\
[02:21:41] <andypugh> Not, I admit, very clearly
[02:21:49] <andypugh> Yes.
[02:22:29] <gmouer> well, it does not sound too bad on the surface, guess I have enough info to experiment a bit now
[02:22:35] <andypugh> This is the section that describes the card mode: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man9/hostmot2.9.html#config%20modparam
[02:24:40] <andypugh> What do you want the pot for?
[02:24:59] <gmouer> feed rate override and spindle override
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[02:26:06] <andypugh> You probably want encoders, not pots. Something like http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5PCS-12mm-Rotary-Encoder-Switch-with-Keyswitch-with-2-bit-gray-scale-/300669235752?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Components_Supplies_ET&hash=item4601487228
[02:26:41] <andypugh> (note that Mode 3 has some MPG-style low perforamnce encoders)
[02:27:02] <gmouer> yea, I seen that mpg function and pete mentioned it a while back
[02:27:29] <andypugh> 2-bit gray code == quadrature
[02:27:46] <Tom_itx> i got a couple of those from mouser recently
[02:28:28] <andypugh> They bounce if you spin too fast, but that isn't actually a disaster with manual controls.
[02:28:53] <Tom_itx> http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/ALPS/EC11E15244B2/?qs=%2fha2pyFadugMG2RDp45gzKwS2iwzGZk6yHguutpgbopbylGI2VEmmg%3d%3d
[02:29:06] <Tom_itx> those have a pushbutton as well
[02:30:02] <andypugh> (the ebay one also has a pushbutton, though I have not decided what you would use it for)
[02:30:41] <gmouer> the encoder would prohibit a panel calibration markings such as 0% 50% 200% and such though
[02:30:43] <Tom_itx> reprappers use them for menu selection
[02:30:51] <Tom_itx> encoder to scroll and button to select
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[02:32:45] <andypugh> gmouer: Yes, but there is an issue with feed-override and suchlike which have GUI controls too. It's very hard to make the GUI and switch agree, whereas with an incremental switch they can cooperate more easily.
[02:34:03] <gmouer> I have the pot method on my lathe, interfaced though a usb game controller, and it is not objectionable how it works with the gui
[02:34:34] <gmouer> the gui indiciator follows the pot position
[02:35:48] <andypugh> The cool thing is, you can use either method. PCW makes nice toys.
[02:35:49] <gmouer> if, you move the gui slider, that grabs control and overrides the pot setting
[02:36:15] <gmouer> PCW sure does make nice toys, I am 100% sold
[02:37:15] <PCW> The 7I77 aux encoders are only there if you have the latest 7I77 firmware
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[02:37:19] <andypugh> I do prefer the encoder for overrides though, as after the GUI has changed it, an encoder can change it back from the current value. What happens if you move the pot after a GUi change>
[02:37:25] <gmouer> I came over from the mach3 world, it took 3 boards to approach what the 7i77 does, and still not even come close, and the 7i77 is a lot cheaper too
[02:37:53] <PCW> (so mode 3 may not be there depending on firmware version)
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[02:38:37] <andypugh> PCW: Ah!, so that clown who has been messing about with a firmware flasher needs to pull his finger out?
[02:38:50] <gmouer> Pete, to use one of the 32 analog inputs for a pot only needs mode 1 or 2 though, right?
[02:38:52] <PCW> I didnt say a thing
[02:39:04] <PCW> Yes mode 1 or 2
[02:39:27] <gmouer> and.. is mode 1 or 2 on all the firmware versions?
[02:39:37] <PCW> Yes
[02:40:05] <gmouer> ok great, so if I edit to loadrt hm2 in mode 2 then some pins for analog useage will appear?
[02:40:36] <PCW> Yep (well thats the theory anyway)
[02:41:01] <gmouer> oh no! you mean I am going to blaze that territory?
[02:42:10] <PCW> how about this: "Its very likely to work"
[02:42:38] <gmouer> lol, that give me personally about a 10% chance then, which I am used to
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[02:43:02] <skunkworks> I love this place
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[02:43:14] <gmouer> now that is the truth Sam !
[02:43:23] <PCW> actually the driver _could_ print put the available mode names
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[02:43:36] <PCW> s/put/out/
[02:43:59] <gmouer> I told a woman that once, got slapped silly
[02:44:10] <PCW> lol
[02:44:18] <andypugh_> PCW: Yes, and I guess that there is no reason not to, except that no-one ever reads the dmesg anyway...
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[02:44:53] <Valen> I did :-<
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[02:44:54] <PCW> only people who complain about pin numbers
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[02:45:52] <gmouer> I am betting it will work nicely, I have trust in mesa and Pete
[02:46:01] <andypugh> Am I still here? I am getting confused
[02:46:07] * Valen just had a 1tb drive die :-< lost 1/4 of my tv recordings
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[02:46:16] <gmouer> you are making me dizzy andy, sit down and stay put
[02:46:19] <Valen> going to have to download burn notice lol
[02:46:21] <skunkworks> gmouer: explain how the analog on the joystick interacts with the gui slider?
[02:47:10] <skunkworks> like what happens after you move the gui slider - then touch the analog..\
[02:47:31] <gmouer> ok Sam, I remoted a couple pots from the game controler to the from panel for spindle override and fro
[02:47:53] <andypugh> gmouer: The mode support is down to the driver writer, and he is notoriously unreliable. I think it works though.
[02:48:42] <gmouer> sam, when the pot is turned, the onscreen gui slider follows
[02:49:07] <Tom_itx> what happens when you move the gui slider?
[02:49:08] <gmouer> then if you grab the onscreen slider and move it, it grabs control
[02:49:15] <Tom_itx> the pot value will not follow
[02:49:25] <andypugh> Valen: Have you tried extreme hackery, such as buying an identical drive and swapping logic boards?
[02:49:27] <gmouer> then... if you touch the pot at all it regains control
[02:49:33] <Tom_itx> i think an encoder would be ideal there
[02:49:33] <skunkworks> right - but what happens if you move the gui all the way to the opposite direction as the analog? when you touch the analog - would it not be stuck?
[02:49:41] <Tom_itx> since it doesn't have a 'value' per se
[02:49:44] <Valen> andypugh: I do have identical hdds
[02:50:01] <skunkworks> or does the gui then pop to wherever the pot is?
[02:50:06] <Valen> but I'm not sure its worth the risk of loosing 2 drives worth of data lol
[02:50:20] <gmouer> sam, yes the slider immediately pops back to the pot position
[02:50:36] <skunkworks> that could be 'interesting'
[02:50:39] <Valen> it is an electrical issue i'm pretty sure, feels like a line driver
[02:50:41] <Tom_itx> yeah
[02:50:57] <ReadError> Valen, ZFS ?
[02:51:05] <gmouer> in practice, it works great because with the pot there is no reason to move the gui slider anyways, its only a indicator in actual use
[02:51:11] <Valen> using linux so no
[02:51:18] <ReadError> ZFS is on linux now
[02:51:20] <skunkworks> I guess if you know that is the behavior - then always use the pot :)
[02:51:24] <skunkworks> heh
[02:51:26] <Valen> outside of fuse?
[02:51:33] <ReadError> yea
[02:51:38] <Tom_itx> an encoder interface would solve that
[02:51:44] <Valen> now thats interesting
[02:51:49] <ReadError> guy at work uses it on ubuntu
[02:52:00] <ReadError> i use freenas though
[02:52:06] <gmouer> Andy, Pete, thanks much guys for the great help! always appreciated
[02:52:29] <Valen> I am in the process of de-virtualising a freenas server at the moment
[02:52:35] <Valen> bsd doesn't play nice inside KVM
[02:52:51] <skunkworks> I could see vibration causing the analog to take over at random times
[02:52:56] <Valen> like 300% cpu use on host when copying
[02:52:57] <ReadError> well i run my freenas inside of vmware esxi
[02:53:17] <Tom_itx> andypugh, how many counts were those encoders?
[02:53:27] <Tom_itx> iirc mine are 15 with 30 detents
[02:53:28] <andypugh> 16 I think.
[02:53:45] <gmouer> sam, never had a single issue, but my machines don't shake as much as yours ;)
[02:53:52] <skunkworks> heh
[02:53:54] <Valen> I had a spare machine sitting there so i figured why not
[02:53:57] <andypugh> I have not actually tried using one yet.
[02:54:12] <Tom_itx> did you get some?
[02:54:24] <andypugh> (and I might end up with a $400 resolver as a jogwheel.....)
[02:54:27] <Tom_itx> lemme know when you do, i have a spare or two to play with
[02:54:29] <Valen> you do any replication ReadError?
[02:54:32] <ReadError> yea
[02:54:33] <Tom_itx> i got a regular mpg
[02:54:37] <ReadError> i got 2 esxi servers
[02:54:46] <Valen> I meant between freenas
[02:54:50] <ReadError> yea
[02:54:56] <ReadError> freenas on both
[02:55:02] <andypugh> I have 10 of the rotary switches, but the machine doesn't use them yet.
[02:55:27] <Valen> I have it set up authenticating off an AD server, rsync seems to loose the windows file permissions when i used it, think zfs replication would preserve it?
[02:55:50] <ReadError> theres a flag for rsync that retains perms
[02:55:52] <ReadError> iirc
[02:55:57] <Valen> i set that
[02:56:00] <ReadError> but i think it might be linux perms only
[02:56:01] <Valen> didn't seem to do anything much
[02:56:10] <Valen> it does seem that way
[02:56:12] <ReadError> not sure
[02:56:22] <ReadError> ZFS is nice though
[02:56:29] <andypugh> It _does_ do rigid tapping though. (only the Z axis is done, Y is waiting on a firmware update on the 8i20, X is waiting on ballscrews, motor, castings, and a firmware update)
[02:56:30] <ReadError> not a huge fan of AD/windows stuff
[02:56:33] <Valen> zfs replication was proving too hard to set up
[02:56:42] <ReadError> even inside of freenas ?
[02:56:44] <Valen> me either, but "magic application" required it
[02:56:50] <gmouer> Andy: those rotary encoders you linked on ebay, is the 2 bit gray code the same thing as A and B outputs on standard encoders?
[02:56:54] <Valen> trying to go from 8.0.4 to 8.3
[02:57:25] <andypugh> gmouer: Yes. 2-bur Gray-code is identical to quadrature
[02:57:33] <Valen> the ssh key setup was proving a pain in the ass so i skipped it lol, I plan on trying it again tonight
[02:57:34] <andypugh> (2-bit)
[02:57:50] <gmouer> ok, thanks, now I understand
[02:59:50] <Valen> a linux freenas would be nice
[03:00:01] <Valen> (with zfs)
[03:00:28] <ReadError> they have one i think
[03:00:31] <ReadError> nas4free
[03:00:33] <ReadError> or somethin
[03:00:42] <Valen> i think thats still bsd
[03:00:49] <ReadError> some of the freenas devs branched off to make a linux one i thought
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[03:01:08] <Valen> I saw that one too, but no zfs that I saw
[03:01:12] <andypugh> Quadrature can be seen as the second-simplest gray-code. 1-bit gray-code is just pulses, 2-bit is quadrature, 3-bit is what bldc hall-sensors output, 4-bit is the Fanuc Red-cap output. 5-bit might well be the pattern of pentaphase stepper motors, but by the time you get to 6-bits I think yiou are only in Gray-code land.
[03:01:13] <ReadError> ah yea that one is fbsd also
[03:01:18] <ReadError> fbsd is rock solid though
[03:01:26] <Valen> zfs + snapshots + windows shadow volume = goodness
[03:01:38] <Valen> tis, i just want it to play nice inside kvm
[03:01:50] <ReadError> bahhh kvm
[03:01:55] <ReadError> step it up to vmware esxi
[03:01:58] <Valen> how much of a performance hit do you think you are getting inside the VM?
[03:02:01] <ReadError> they have a free license
[03:02:09] <Valen> bah I like having big boy tools ;-P
[03:02:19] <ReadError> you played with esxi 5?
[03:02:21] <ReadError> its slick man
[03:02:23] <gmouer> gray code is a new term to me, I have not come across that one before
[03:02:23] <Valen> I use ganeti which runs KVM and DRBD
[03:02:38] <ReadError> free for 1 physical cpu
[03:02:46] <Valen> so i get basically a network RAID setup, live migration and the like
[03:02:50] <ReadError> i got a xeon with 32gb of ram on one
[03:02:53] <ReadError> its a beast
[03:03:08] <ReadError> SSD
[03:03:39] <Valen> my "cluster" is a pair of dell R210II's 2x 1Tb sata, quad xeon 3Ghz, 32gb ram all in a short depth wall mount cabnet ;->
[03:03:50] <Valen> sticking freenas onto the 3rd R210
[03:04:16] <Tom_itx> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grey_codes
[03:04:22] <ReadError> HA is slick too if you have the license for it
[03:04:45] <andypugh> By the way, I have that New-Scientist article as a PDF, if anyone is curious.
[03:04:58] <ReadError> which article ?
[03:05:07] <Valen> I could do HA, but given the reliability of the computers, a HA setup is too much of a pain to get working well
[03:05:19] <Valen> so i just do it by hand
[03:05:20] <andypugh> the "not-eating might be good for you" one
[03:05:22] <ReadError> Valen, in vmware is all automagic
[03:05:29] <ReadError> you can literally migrate a guest with a mouse
[03:05:44] <Valen> migrating guests is easy enough with my setup
[03:05:54] <Valen> gnt-instance migrate somevm
[03:06:00] <ReadError> but this basically replicates the guest ram and stuff over on the fly
[03:06:05] <ReadError> through the backend network
[03:06:09] <Valen> there is a web interface for it all but i never bothered with it
[03:06:14] <ReadError> so it fires up and its like it never went offline
[03:07:01] <Valen> thats a live migration too, the disk replication is handled by DRBD so even if one node catches fire I can fire up the VM's on the second node and it just looks to the host like an unplanned power outage
[03:07:02] <ReadError> i wish work would give me a few spare r710s
[03:07:13] <ReadError> i could have some fun with them
[03:07:16] <ReadError> 192gb ram
[03:07:18] <ReadError> noms
[03:07:37] <Valen> heh I hate the ram in the 210s, ECC unbuffered
[03:07:39] <Valen> nobody makes that
[03:07:43] <Valen> max 32gb too
[03:08:06] <ReadError> plus, vmware supports VTd
[03:08:13] <ReadError> so you can give you guest direct hardware access
[03:08:17] <ReadError> to w/e you want
[03:08:24] <Valen> kvm supports all of that too ;-P
[03:08:31] <Valen> for free ;->
[03:08:37] <ReadError> yea this is free too
[03:08:42] <ReadError> (for 1 cpu ;P
[03:08:47] <Valen> except for the big boy parts like vmotion
[03:09:15] <ReadError> i want to build out openstack when i get some time
[03:09:27] <Valen> check out ganeti, its kinda in the middle
[03:09:47] <Valen> openstack seems pretty darn heavy in terms of requirements
[03:10:19] <ReadError> well you can actually build it out within KVM on a single machine
[03:10:23] <ReadError> if you wanted to test
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[03:11:03] <Valen> I think I'd only really be interested in a push button install of it all
[03:11:07] <Valen> too many bits for me
[03:11:20] <ReadError> yea its pretty involved to setup
[03:11:27] <ReadError> but they have a distro made for it now iirc
[03:12:31] <andypugh> I had a Mac that used unbuffered ECC. (the only one, AFAIK). It was inconvenient.
[03:13:32] <Valen> I hear openstack is going to run off ceph, if they can get WAN replication for ceph working that would be awesome
[03:13:59] <Valen> nobody has yet solved "branch office" with access to head offices file server, in a good way
[03:18:06] <Valen> andypugh: I read the fasting article, and decided it wasn't worth it lol
[03:20:42] <andypugh> I think that the journalist rather over-states the effect of not eating for a day. I have occasonally done so by accident because I was too busy, and not noticed until I decided to sleep.
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[03:21:48] <Valen> I often go to 5 or 6 PM before eating
[03:28:01] <ReadError> andypugh, link?
[03:29:18] <andypugh> i think you were here, but http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21628912.400-deprive-yourself-the-real-benefits-of-fasting.html
[03:30:13] <ReadError> it only has 2 paragraphs or so for me
[03:30:42] <ReadError> do you have the pdf up ?
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[03:47:59] <andypugh> ReadError: Does this work? https://docs.google.com/open?id=0BxjJW1-T6n7CbDgyYkViTUVESVk
[03:48:21] <ReadError> ah yea cool
[03:48:22] <Valen> works for me
[03:48:23] <ReadError> let me read this
[03:48:42] <Valen> what I'd really like newsci to do, is have a home page that I can view by date
[03:48:58] <Valen> I don't want to see stuff that came out after the mag that i'm up to
[03:50:23] <andypugh> Anyway, silly-late here. Time to sleep.
[03:50:31] <Valen> nighty night
[03:50:44] * Valen is off to the pool then an office to screw with computators
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[03:51:52] <Jymmm> Fist it was secretaries, then admin, now computars
[03:52:02] <ReadError> lol
[03:52:17] <ReadError> SCREW ALLLL THE THINGS!
[03:54:08] <Valen> best part about that paticular office is the secretary is the admin is the hot blonde
[03:54:52] <Valen> not so much luck on the screwing though :-<
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[05:06:19] <p0st4L> who starts 2 companies in the first week of 2013?
[05:06:21] <p0st4L> this guy
[05:06:23] <p0st4L> :)
[05:06:27] <p0st4L> fuck,
[05:06:28] <p0st4L> wrong chat
[05:06:45] <p0st4L> jay kay, el oh el
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[07:21:27] <RyanS> is half-stepping okay for driving a leadscrew? I'm not that concerned about the resolution
[07:22:41] <archivist> I use half step
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[07:35:24] <RyanS> so 1/16, 1/32 is more for higher resolution and accuracy?
[07:36:05] <archivist> not accuracy that can be snake oil, it can reduce resonance though
[07:36:51] <archivist> http://www.micromo.com/microstepping-myths-and-realities.aspx
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[08:00:53] <DJ9DJ> moin
[08:03:22] <RyanS> so rather than the rotor being held in say step 100 with full step, half-stepping would have the rotor 'balanced' between 100-101 so you lose some holding torque ?
[08:05:08] <t12> and it likely isnt quite balanced in half
[08:05:16] <t12> as a per-motor characteristic
[08:05:24] <t12> thats how i interpert it at least?
[08:06:00] <t12> i found some microscope stage motor controllers
[08:06:08] <t12> that are 1/64 and 1/128 steps i think
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[08:07:41] <RyanS> hmmn this article seems to suggest that 'detent torque' is bad but I would have thought it would increase the holding torque
[08:15:08] <archivist> steppers are simple to get going but you need to give them some headroom, use a more powerful motor than the measured torque of your lead screw
[08:16:05] <archivist> dont attempt to run at maximum acceleration or speed else you leave nothing spare to drive the load
[08:18:44] <archivist> when testing I put a large amount of weight on the table to find the maximums for my machine and set slower values for running
[08:19:01] <archivist> even then I later had to lower some more
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[10:32:27] <Loetmichel> re at home... i think i am getting old... 20 hrs ago i drove to my sister, some 200km away... changed the hardware on her PC... and fixed the windows on 3 of her employers Notebooks... drove back just now... and had to have half an hour nap half way because my eyes wouldnt stay open... no stamina left :-(
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[10:34:32] <archivist> aw
[10:36:12] <Loetmichel> ... 20 years ago i would have laughed about 30 hrs awake and 20 hrs "work"... and now i am SO short of napping away :-(
[10:36:33] <mrsun> 20 hours for 200km ? :P
[10:36:47] <mrsun> yeah you must be getting old ...
[10:36:50] <mrsun> 10km/h
[10:37:21] <archivist> he drives faster, just slow at fixing windows
[10:37:26] * archivist ducks
[10:37:34] <Loetmichel> mrsun: 2 hrs drive. and in between 4 computers to fix. soft and hardware
[10:37:36] <mrsun> ahh
[10:37:38] <mrsun> 20 hours AGO
[10:37:45] <Loetmichel> right
[10:37:45] <mrsun> i just keep reading stuff wrong these days :P
[10:37:51] <mrsun> i must be getting old :P
[10:38:22] <Loetmichel> hrhr
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[13:48:37] <r00t4rd3d> http://techcrunch.com/2013/01/03/kickstarter-leikr-is-an-openstreetmap-gps-sports-watch-with-a-two-inch-colour-screen/
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[15:11:23] <DJ9DJ> re
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[15:21:48] <ReadError> hello
[15:21:58] <ReadError> so im testing something within parallels on linuxcnc
[15:22:08] <ReadError> i downloaded the simulator version
[15:22:16] <ReadError> but its *still* looking for a parport
[15:24:06] <JT-Shop> the pure simulator for LinuxCNC?
[15:27:38] <JT-Shop> http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=tPg1ZMiC9pA
[15:31:55] <ReadError> yea
[15:32:19] <archivist> I remember that from a while ago :)
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[15:43:49] <ReadError> ahh fixed that error
[15:43:58] <ReadError> now i have the issue with libc segfaulting
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[16:07:10] * JT-Shop has never used the pure simulator
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[16:33:44] <skunkworks> JT-Shop, any luck with your touch screen?
[16:41:31] <ReadError> ok so
[16:41:41] <ReadError> it turns out, parallels tools is breaking linuxcnc im sim mode
[16:42:32] <archivist> us engineers in here think parallels are made of metal
[16:42:47] <ReadError> "Parallels Desktop"
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[16:44:05] <archivist> the real thing TM http://www.archivist.info/cnc/stage6/P1010033_t.jpg
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[17:13:40] <halo_cast> hello all
[17:15:55] <JT-Shop> hi
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[17:21:44] <halo_cast> I am thinking to realize a plasma cutter using linux cnc as software. I learned that for plasma cutters the distance between torch and steel is very important. It might be that the steel plate is not completely flat so keeping the Z axis constant could be a bad choice. I thought of a solution: Using a contact switch instead the torch in a first run one could measure a grid of Z heights of the steel plate by moving
[17:21:45] <halo_cast> from position to position going down the z axis until the contact is made. Then, in a second run this info could be used to control the torch distance over the steel plate. The question is: Is linux CNC capable to do this? Is this function implemented?
[17:22:35] <JT-Shop> that is a probe move, but the plate will move as you cut if thin so a THC is needed
[17:23:12] <JT-Shop> LinucCNC works well with the Mesa THCAD card... add a floating head with a probe switch and your good to go
[17:23:17] <JT-Shop> need some photos?
[17:23:43] <halo_cast> yes please
[17:23:51] <JT-Shop> http://www.gnipsel.com/shop/plasma/plasma.xhtml
[17:24:10] <halo_cast> This page is under construction at the moment.
[17:25:27] <halo_cast> So I understand it is implemented but can cause problems?
[17:27:28] <halo_cast> JT-Shop: it Says "this page is under construction"
[17:28:04] <archivist> see buttons to left
[17:28:51] <archivist> unfortunate heading to that page some wont go past a construction sign
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[17:30:30] <halo_cast> ok
[17:30:37] <JT-Shop> just the page not the info
[17:30:39] <halo_cast> is it "plasma gallery?"
[17:30:53] * JT-Shop just put the last part in the mill till lunch
[17:30:58] <JT-Shop> yes
[17:32:33] <halo_cast> most of the pics are not shown - which one do u mean?
[17:33:24] <JT-Shop> just look at them all
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[17:33:50] <JT-Shop> more here http://s47.beta.photobucket.com/user/johnplctech/library/Plasma%20Cutter
[17:33:56] <JT-Shop> bbl
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[17:35:12] <halo_cast> nice machinery
[17:35:14] <IchGuckLive> hi all
[17:35:24] <DJ9DJ> hi there
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[17:40:37] <halo_cast> Is there anybody else who has done a plasma CNC?
[17:41:23] <cncbasher> yes .. best advice THC and a floating head as JT has described
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[17:42:08] <IchGuckLive> halo_cast: most of us are doning this now as the prise of the powerfax are falling
[17:42:33] <halo_cast> Powerfax?
[17:43:34] <IchGuckLive> hypertherm powermax xxx
[17:43:51] <IchGuckLive> where are you from country
[17:43:55] <IchGuckLive> USA Europ
[17:45:14] <halo_cast> Europe, Germany
[17:45:39] <IchGuckLive> Dann bist du hier richtig ich sitze in Ramstein RLP
[17:45:41] <halo_cast> I have a Lorch 7020 Plasma cutter - Bought it at Ebay as broken and restored it.
[17:48:43] <halo_cast> http://picpaste.com/Plasma_Lorch_7020-CuwEt6ex.jpg
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[17:58:09] <t12> what was broken?
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[18:17:30] <halo_cast> t12: With my plasma?
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[18:17:52] <t12> ya
[18:27:26] <halo_cast> t12: rectifier, Pressure reducer, contactors, torch, air hoses - and not to forget the idiot who "repaired" the mashine before me.
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[18:33:48] <halo_cast> t12?
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[18:46:01] <t12> ahh
[18:46:08] <t12> was it worth the repair hassle
[18:46:20] <t12> vs n ew or used/working?
[18:49:37] <FinboySlick> andypugh: Mind if I pick your material scientist brain for a moment?
[18:50:04] <andypugh> Go on
[18:51:54] <FinboySlick> andypugh: I'm obsessing over the Stirling cycle engine as I do every few months and I was wondering... Since PV = nRT, an ideal gas for stirling would be H2 since you can get a lot more n for a given V at a given T differential. But H2 leaks through everything.
[18:52:59] <FinboySlick> So I started pondering anodizing the inside of the container to optimize on the smallest gas molecule.
[18:53:12] <andypugh> Why do you think that you get more V for the same n? Ideal gasses all have the same molar volume (24 litres IIRC)
[18:53:27] <FinboySlick> I get more n for a given V.
[18:53:35] <FinboySlick> not more v for a given n.
[18:53:39] <andypugh> n = number of molecules.
[18:54:36] <FinboySlick> Well, I was thinking that the smaller they are, the more you can fit in a given volume (and pressure and temperature).
[18:54:51] <andypugh> I am pretty sure that isn't the case.
[18:55:13] <andypugh> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molar_volume
[18:55:40] <FinboySlick> Darn, and here I thought that this was the reason why hydrogen based stirlings were supposedly better.
[18:55:40] <andypugh> Though that is admittedly an "ideal gas" and I don't know how far from ideal real gasses are.
[18:56:09] <andypugh> Well, the specific heat of a given volume of hydrogen may be much lower.
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[18:57:17] <FinboySlick> So the key here would be to optimize on specific heat with a lower limit on molecule size?
[18:57:37] <andypugh> Possibly. Argon looks good in that case.
[18:59:09] <FinboySlick> I've been toying with a 100% sealed design (no side of pistons exposed to atmosphere). But I'm not sure what to fill it with yet ;)
[19:00:16] <guest_______> Hi, running my first real program - getting an error when I load my code - Do I need to predefine the home position? g28.1? can I do this in mdi? will the g28.1 values remain in the contol after shutdown?
[19:00:37] <guest_______> Hi, running my first real program - getting an error when I load my code - Do I need to predefine the home position? g28.1? can I do this in mdi? will the g28.1 values remain in the contol after shutdown?paul
[19:00:52] <FinboySlick> guest_______: Who's paul? ;)
[19:01:27] <guest_______> New guy!
[19:01:44] <guest_______> Vancouver Island
[19:01:51] <FinboySlick> Yay Canada!
[19:02:04] <FinboySlick> I'm at the other end.
[19:02:19] <guest_______> Maritimes?
[19:02:42] <FinboySlick> Well, the bit of quebec that invades the Maritimes, yeah. Gaspe penninsula.
[19:03:55] <archivist> FinboySlick, seen http://www.stirlingengines.org.uk/ ?
[19:03:56] <IchGuckLive> guest_______: are there Homeswiches on the joints
[19:04:12] <guest_______> yes, I can home
[19:04:15] <IchGuckLive> or do you rubn without homing
[19:04:26] <FinboySlick> archivist: That guy looks way too serious.
[19:05:02] <IchGuckLive> guest_______: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.4/html/gcode_main.html#sub:G28,-G30:-Return
[19:05:27] <archivist> FinboySlick, there have been some well made examples in the competitions over here
[19:07:23] <guest_______> Yes, I have read that, but can I put the values in with mdi? Once in, do they remain until changed?
[19:07:51] <IchGuckLive> yes
[19:07:59] <FinboySlick> guest_______: You can execute single lines of gcode in axis to set these. I'm not sure if they are permanent.
[19:09:15] <guest_______> ok, thanks guys - off to the shop!
[19:09:53] <archivist> run a network cable to the shop
[19:10:04] <guest_______> Didn't Springsteen have a hit Born in the Gaspe?
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[19:11:06] <FinboySlick> guest_______: Heh, maybe but I don't think his first name was Bruce in this case.
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[19:31:26] <JT-Shop> dgarr: you around?
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[19:40:23] <DJ9DJ> gn8
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[19:45:17] <cncbasher> fantastic
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[20:33:51] <JT-Shop> damn tool changer broke on the last part... time for a break
[20:34:19] <pfred1> I broke last week
[20:35:29] <pfred1> doc gave me a bottle of hillbilly heroin and told me no strenious activities until further notice
[20:36:05] <AR_> i got 2 linear rails with bearings and a 6x8" aluminum plate
[20:36:08] <AR_> good enough
[20:37:53] <AR_> 2 ballsecrews i ordered off of ebay with a very vague description for $25 should be arriving today
[20:38:00] <AR_> interested to see what I actually purchased
[20:38:51] <ravenlock> could anyone explain to me *why* a machine would use a "feed rate" which is of the form ((maxDesiredRate)/(lengthOfSegment))^-1 per minute?
[20:39:28] <ravenlock> it seems the effect is "shorter segments feed slower". maybe that is the point of it?
[20:39:46] <pfred1> sounds legit
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[20:40:04] <ravenlock> to "put the brakes on a bit" ?
[20:40:10] <archivist> you should read the trajectory planner page on the wiki
[20:40:36] <archivist> depends on forward planning
[20:40:56] <pfred1> I had plans they're all on hold now
[20:41:28] <ravenlock> archivist, referring to my query?
[20:41:32] <ravenlock> do you have a url?
[20:41:32] <archivist> yes
[20:42:42] <archivist> start here http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?TrajectoryControl and there are some other pages
[20:42:54] <ravenlock> cool thanks
[20:43:38] <archivist> link to hairy maffs at bottom
[20:43:48] <ravenlock> niiice
[20:44:01] <archivist> and pretty graphs
[20:44:27] <paul___> ok, I am back - I think I have my g28.1 loaded in the control - still getting this error - near line 20 - cannot use axis values without a gcode that uses them. -
[20:44:35] <paul___> % (SPOT DRILL) (T2 D=0.25 CR=0. TAPER=90DEG - ZMIN=-0.05 - SPOT DRILL) N10 G90 G94 G17 N15 G20 N20 G28 G91 Z0. N25 G90 (SPOT DRILL) N30 M9 N35 T2 M6 N40 S1679 M3 N45 G54 N50 M8 N55 G0 X0.5386 Y-0.54 N60 G43 Z0.6 H2 N65 G17 N70 G0 Z0.2 N75 G98 G82 X0.5386 Y-0.54 Z-0.05 R0.2 P0.1 F2.5 N80 X1.5386 N85 G80 N90 Z0.6 N100 M9 N105 G28 G91 Z0. N110 G28 X0. Y0. N115 M30 %
[20:46:53] <paul___> ooh that didn't format too well.
[20:48:08] <paul___> % (SPOT DRILL) (T2 D=0.25 CR=0. TAPER=90DEG - ZMIN=-0.05 - SPOT DRILL) N10 G90 G94 G17 N15 G20 N20 G28 G91 Z0. N25 G90 (SPOT DRILL) N30 M9 N35 T2 M6 N40 S1679 M3 N45 G54 N50 M8 N55 G0 X0.5386 Y-0.54 N60 G43 Z0.6 H2 N65 G17 N70 G0 Z0.2 N75 G98 G82 X0.5386 Y-0.54 Z-0.05 R0.2 P0.1 F2.5 N80 X1.5386 N85 G80 N90 Z0.6 N100 M9 N105 G28 G91 Z0. N110 G28 X0. Y0. N115 M30 %
[20:48:13] <archivist> use a pastebin we cannot see where line 20 is
[20:48:39] <tjb1> holy spam
[20:49:42] <tjb1> JT-Shop: Stop breaking things
[20:49:45] <paul___> Oh, I don't know what a paste bin is, tried to become a forum member, but gave up after multiple attempts at registering.
[20:50:41] <archivist> forum spam filter seems borked we get a few moans
[20:51:07] <ravenlock> paul___, pastebin.com
[20:54:19] <paul___> ok, bear with me...
[20:54:51] <pfred1> I reserve my right to keep armed bears!
[20:55:08] <paul___> http://pastebin.com/kWWuWssb
[20:55:13] <paul___> ok?
[20:57:36] <archivist> what is line 21 doing
[20:57:38] <cradek> paul___: following G80 by Z0.6 is an error
[20:58:18] <cradek> perhaps you mean G0 Z0.6 or G1 Z0.6?
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[20:58:36] <cradek> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode/gcode.html#sec:G80-Cancel-Modal
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[21:01:05] <cradek> also, bookmark this right now: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode.html
[21:01:15] <pfred1> hey cradek!
[21:01:38] <cradek> uh-oh
[21:02:01] <pfred1> what? all I said was hello
[21:02:11] <cradek> ah, hi!
[21:02:20] <pfred1> I'm out of commission
[21:03:36] <cradek> howso?
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[21:04:01] <pfred1> this time last week something in my groin let go which lead to me having to have mergency surgery
[21:04:16] <pfred1> yup was just about now
[21:04:34] <cradek> well that sure sounds bad
[21:04:40] <pfred1> minutes fro mthat feteful event
[21:04:41] <cradek> hope you're back together soon
[21:04:58] <pfred1> thanks yeah I hope to recover someday too
[21:06:37] <pfred1> so far it has been a lesson in humility
[21:06:46] <paul___> thanks, cradek, I will look at those links
[21:07:54] <paul___> so I need a motion code after the g80?
[21:08:10] <cradek> yes, that's what the docs are trying to say
[21:08:15] <cradek> it could be clearer
[21:08:25] * pfred1 needs some motion code for ah you know where ...
[21:08:30] <cradek> but G80 cancels all motion codes, that's its only purpose
[21:08:42] <paul___> this was a post from a cam program
[21:08:44] <pfred1> is that what happened to me?
[21:13:11] <paul___> thank for your help, I will add a g0 and retry
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[21:14:15] <cradek> welcome
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[21:47:22] <andypugh> Darn! I was going to ask Paul___ what his forum name was.
[21:51:01] * pfred1 's first name is Paul
[21:51:31] <pfred1> that is what the p stands for
[21:51:42] <andypugh> ravenlock: That equation looks rather a lot like inverse time feed rate.
[21:52:45] <andypugh> It is a feed rate mode where you say how long the move should take, rather than how fast it should move. Except it is (for unknown reasons) inverse time, so bigger nulbers are faster.
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[21:55:01] <sc__> hello
[21:55:19] <pfred1> hi
[21:56:04] <sc__> well I'm looking for some help ...
[21:56:15] <dr00bie> what linux capable cam software are people using with linuxcnc?
[21:56:41] <ravenlock> andypugh, it is, yes
[21:57:01] <ravenlock> what is the purpose of that exactly (was my question).
[21:57:08] <ravenlock> why not just "feed rate" ?
[21:57:18] <ravenlock> why make it complicated?
[21:57:30] <cradek> for some complicated moves, it's hard to say what the feed rate is. think of a 5 axis machine doing a complex curve.
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[21:57:53] <andypugh> I think it is useful for coordinated moves with angular axes included. It is only really usable by CAM systems (every move needs a fedrate) but a CAM system may know the radius of rotation, whereas G-code doesn't
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[21:58:13] <andypugh> sc__: Ask the question, don't ask to ask.. :-)
[21:58:43] <andypugh> ravenlock: It's just one of the options, normally.
[21:59:05] <ravenlock> yeah, but I was "told to use it". basically by the machine mfgr
[21:59:21] <pfred1> sc__ also don't forget to visit the nice forum at http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/forum/index
[21:59:30] <ravenlock> and, so let me ask another....
[22:00:05] <andypugh> sc__: Ask here first, the forum doesn't have as many folks on it as the IRC.
[22:00:11] <ravenlock> should the "distance in question" be that of the "current LINE segment", or that of the "entire stroke" ?
[22:00:14] <pfred1> liez!
[22:00:15] <sc__> I'm getting the RTAI[hal]: ERROR, LOCAL APIC CONFIGURED BUT NOT AVAILABLE/ENABLED. tried enabling lapic in grub but still the same error does anyone know somehing else I can try?
[22:00:16] <ravenlock> I never use the forums
[22:00:43] <ravenlock> IRC ftw
[22:00:45] <cradek> sc__: did you check your bios for things that look relevant?
[22:01:02] <cradek> sometimes there are some apic-related options in there.
[22:01:08] <pfred1> I think more people are active on the forum
[22:01:15] <sc__> yes but I have no setting related to APIC
[22:01:16] <ravenlock> ant by "stroke" I refer to , position the tool, enter material, navigate, exit material
[22:02:46] <andypugh> sc__: You might be out of luck with that PC, I am afraid.
[22:03:08] <sc__> :(
[22:03:20] <sc__> It's a laptop
[22:03:37] <pfred1> laptops are oftne not good CNC candidates
[22:03:38] <cradek> it probably wouldn't work acceptably for controlling a real machine anyway, then
[22:03:44] <pfred1> often even
[22:04:08] <sc__> yes I know but I thought it's worth a try
[22:04:14] <sc__> mach3 did work
[22:04:20] <pfred1> sure can't hurt
[22:04:54] <sc__> But since I'ts no real time os I thought I'd try EMC2
[22:05:26] <pfred1> mach3 takes a more invasive approach as I understand it to work
[22:05:33] <dr00bie> sc__: hardware specs?
[22:06:21] <pfred1> mach3 functions more like a zombie virus than anything else
[22:06:29] <sc__> pentium3 256 mb ram
[22:06:45] <pfred1> I run EMC2 on a P3
[22:06:50] <pfred1> but it is a tower
[22:06:57] <sc__> mmh
[22:06:58] <dr00bie> pfred1: any reason why laptops don't make good cnc candidates?
[22:07:00] <cradek> that might be old enough to actually work. try our old hardy-based install
[22:07:26] <pfred1> dr00bie a few mostly laptops have more housekeeping than desktops
[22:07:33] <cradek> dr00bie: their power-saving features, probably
[22:07:44] <pfred1> that housekeeping translates into latency issues
[22:08:10] <sc__> what dod you mean with old hardy based setup?
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[22:08:45] <pfred1> plus laptop parallel ports are notoriously underpowered
[22:08:46] <dr00bie> pfred1: interesting... I have seen more repraps running off of laptops than desktops..
[22:08:58] <pfred1> reprap is java code
[22:09:10] <cradek> don't those have microcontroller-based motion?
[22:09:22] <pfred1> nah well maybe they could
[22:09:24] <dr00bie> cradek: you are right... my bad...
[22:09:29] <dr00bie> arduinos
[22:09:34] <dr00bie> i'm a dummy ;)
[22:09:35] <andypugh> sc__: Try this link http://www.linuxcnc.org/iso/ubuntu-8.04-desktop-emc2-aj13-i386.iso
[22:10:14] <sc__> I've tried using arduino but it's too slow a G3 command takes a few millisecs to compute
[22:10:21] <andypugh> It's an older version of Ubuntu, with a kernel that only supports single-core CPUs, which means it doesn't need the APIC.
[22:10:25] <pfred1> cradek I think the reprap performance is orders of magnitude less than acceptable LinuxCNC
[22:10:30] <dr00bie> pfred1: my reprap laptop doesn't have parallel, so that is why I haven't tried running my cheapo TB6560s with it...
[22:10:56] <sc__> thanks andy
[22:11:07] <dr00bie> pfred1: you are right there...
[22:11:36] <pfred1> dr00bie I am the Gawd of the TB6560AHQ BTW
[22:11:39] <andypugh> sc__: You should still be able to run the very latest version of LinuxCNC, just don't update the Ubuntu version.
[22:12:12] <sc__> I see thanks a lot
[22:12:15] <pfred1> dr00bie https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GU2GaSMPxNI
[22:13:47] <pfred1> I never understood what the deal was with people saying not to update
[22:14:05] <pfred1> is that because the kernel might be made not the default or something?
[22:14:15] <andypugh> Updates tend to install a new kernel. That tends to break the LinuxCNC installation.
[22:14:28] <pfred1> yeah but it shouldn't uninstall an old kernel
[22:14:42] <pfred1> that isn't how dpkg works
[22:14:57] <pfred1> it just gets pushed down the menu
[22:15:21] <cradek> the update manager is not particularly clear about what you're getting
[22:15:24] <andypugh> Can you guarantee that any given OS version is completely kernel-agnostic?
[22:15:31] <cradek> OS version update vs package updates
[22:15:44] <pfred1> oh wull upgrade is different
[22:15:47] <pfred1> full even
[22:15:57] <dr00bie> pfred1: nice! my soldering skills are decent, but my electronics knowledge is very slim atm, so I just usually get kits. The TB6560 controller I have is from ebay and I bought it several years ago and never got around to the project.
[22:16:01] <pfred1> full upgrade can and will break all kinds of things
[22:16:14] <andypugh> Ah, sorry, I read "Update" as "Upgrade". You ought to Update yes.
[22:16:26] <dr00bie> pfred1: from what I understand, the TB6560s are considered trash by most diy cnc users...
[22:16:39] <pfred1> dr00bie I built my drivers before the chinese boards were available
[22:16:45] <andypugh> They are perfectly adequate, if a tad fragile.
[22:16:59] <pfred1> dr00bie most DIYers don't know much about electronics either
[22:17:21] <skunkworks> pfred1, building your own stepper drives?
[22:17:26] <skunkworks> what are they based on?
[22:17:28] <pfred1> so I hold their opinions in low regard
[22:18:07] <pfred1> skunkworks I built them a long time ago I've made some with TB6560 and others with SLA7026
[22:18:34] <skunkworks> neat.
[22:18:35] * pfred1 is bi and uni :)
[22:19:02] <pfred1> I want to get ahold of Toshiba's new drive ICs
[22:19:32] <skunkworks> I goofed around making my own about 10-15 years ago. At the time - microstepping wasn't easy for the diyer - gave up and found anything commercial worked quite well
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[22:21:29] <pfred1> turns out even half stepping does the trick
[22:21:48] <pfred1> I made my own step sequencer for the SLA7026
[22:22:07] <andypugh> LinuxCNC supports a number of step sequences too.
[22:22:35] <pfred1> skunkworks http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/9769/hs2y.png
[22:22:54] <andypugh> And the eventual solution to my undesized-arbor problem was: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/vj6jrLOoldVzDo8qLqt34tMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink .... ie make a new one from scratch.
[22:24:14] <pfred1> http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/1538/pict0783o.jpg
[22:24:16] <skunkworks> andypugh, you have to make a video of that hobbing hobbing...
[22:24:19] <MercuryRising> how do you clear a g54? my machine origin and relative origin are offset, and want them to be the same again
[22:24:55] <andypugh> G10 L2(?) P1 X0 Y0 Z0
[22:25:13] <andypugh> Not sure about the L2 part
[22:25:21] <PCW> Andy you might mention on the BLDC manual that these:
[22:25:23] <PCW> 15,17,25,34 = forward
[22:25:24] <PCW> 13,22,30,32 = reverse
[22:25:26] <PCW> are the only pure gray code BLD hall sequences
[22:25:34] <skunkworks> MercuryRising, good reading..... and your part http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?CoordinateSystems#So_if_you_re_lost_what_should_you_do
[22:25:34] <pfred1> andypugh you lathed that arbor?
[22:25:43] <andypugh> pfred1: Yes
[22:25:49] <MercuryRising> awesome, thanks!
[22:25:50] <pfred1> andypugh looks really nice
[22:26:16] <skunkworks> andypugh, nice having cnc for the taper? ;)
[22:26:37] <andypugh> Yes, it makes tapers really easy, and they fit perfectly first time too.
[22:26:44] <skunkworks> right :)
[22:27:08] <pfred1> I made a taper by hand once it didn't work the first time around
[22:27:33] <skunkworks> we have a taper attachemnt for the monarch - but it is still a pain to use.
[22:27:40] <pfred1> worked after I hit it with some valve grinding compound though
[22:28:40] <skunkworks> andypugh, what is the gear for?
[22:28:55] <pfred1> steampunk!
[22:29:29] <andypugh> I had to make a socket to hold the taper at the chuck-end, but that was also easy with the CNC. I actually made a socket that screws on to the spindle nose. Another thing CNC makes easy is internal threads in blind holes. :-)
[22:29:57] * skunkworks needs to get his lathe running
[22:30:01] <skunkworks> *cnc lathe
[22:30:05] <andypugh> skunkworks: That hob is for making timing pulleys. My X-axis drive is going to need a rather wierd pulley
[22:30:20] <skunkworks> andypugh, ah - cool
[22:30:33] <andypugh> (I might offer a blank-hobbing service if it works out well)
[22:31:10] <skunkworks> again - video!
[22:31:32] <pfred1> andypugh admit it these are your friends http://hopeliesat24framespersecond.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/costumes.jpg
[22:31:46] <andypugh> Tomorrows job will be to see if the servo I have is butch enough to operate the rotary.
[22:32:01] <jpratt3000> hi everyone - hope you all had a great start to the New Year!
[22:32:24] <andypugh> pfred1: The one in the middle is more than welcome to be.
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[22:33:06] <jpratt3000> i've got a total n00b question - i just put a ruler down to check my accuracy and its off by quite a bit. what is the formula for setting length of travel on a linear axis?
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[22:33:21] <pfred1> andypugh well you show some steampunk babes some of your brass gears and you're in!
[22:33:46] <andypugh> I am not entirely sure that I _don't_ know any of those folk, actually.
[22:33:58] <andypugh> Any idea where the photo was taken?
[22:34:11] <pfred1> http://hopelies.com/2011/08/03/steampunk-where-are-the-films/
[22:34:15] <pfred1> page it is from
[22:34:43] <ds3> are there any good pages on characterizing missing steps on a stepper system?
[22:34:44] <pfred1> I read the book I have to admit I still don't fully understand the movement
[22:35:10] <pfred1> I actually read the book before there was a movement
[22:35:51] <pfred1> missing steps usually means you're trying to run too fast
[22:36:05] <pfred1> although it could be caused by noise in your system too
[22:36:30] <andypugh> pfred1: : Sounds like the photo was as ComicCon. I haven't been to that.
[22:36:58] <pfred1> andypugh people you know could have attended though
[22:37:08] <andypugh> I got into CNC because I wanted to make a steampunk clock..
[22:37:25] <pfred1> but have you read The Difference Engine?
[22:37:45] <andypugh> Yes, and in fact my clock is difference-engine inspired.
[22:37:53] <pfred1> that I believe is what started it all
[22:39:11] <pfred1> andypugh see I knew there was a steampunk tie in with you and the brass gears
[22:39:41] <pfred1> people etch gears with good effect
[22:39:54] <pfred1> you know just for the look
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[22:41:09] <ReadError> so i ordered some cheap endmills on ebay
[22:41:13] <ReadError> got a really nice holder!
[22:41:16] <ReadError> holds about 100
[22:41:16] <pfred1> ought oh
[22:41:45] <ReadError> http://www.ebay.com/itm/10-1-8-1250-2-FLUTE-CARBIDE-ENDMILLS-NEW-/150964627802?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item232631695a
[22:41:51] <ReadError> came with a plastic thing that red tray goes in
[22:42:05] <pfred1> 2 flute huh?
[22:42:17] <pfred1> they're good for soft materials
[22:42:36] <pfred1> not so good for steel
[22:42:55] <ReadError> nah i dont cut steel really
[22:43:00] <ReadError> just aluminum/cf/g10
[22:43:02] <pfred1> OK then you're set
[22:43:12] <ReadError> i think a 3flute would be better for the g10/cf
[22:43:15] <ReadError> but 2f works alright
[22:43:16] <pfred1> yeah 2 flute nice on aluminum
[22:44:08] <pfred1> carbide is still so brittle though I prefer HSS
[22:45:19] <pfred1> I always manage to snap an endmill long before I dull it out
[22:45:56] <pfred1> although if you dull an endmill out they snap anyways that is how they die
[22:46:19] <pfred1> they just don't cut well enough to relieve the side load on them eventually
[22:46:42] <pfred1> I call it coughing up sand when they do it
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[22:47:13] <pfred1> because they don't make large chips anymore they make swarf that looks like sand
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[22:48:05] <pfred1> when I worked in a machine shop we ran bits on production jobs until they snapped
[22:48:33] <pfred1> wasn't worth resharpening them
[22:48:53] <ReadError> i would probably end up making it more dull trying to sharpen it ;)
[22:49:03] <ReadError> wouldnt the dimensions of it change after removing material ?
[22:49:07] <pfred1> you'd get maybe 20 more pieces while it coughed up sand
[22:49:16] <pfred1> yes
[22:49:28] <ReadError> i need to get some HSS stock
[22:49:33] <ReadError> for making lathe bits
[22:49:50] <pfred1> I have a big box of lathe blanks
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[22:50:10] <ReadError> whats a good source?
[22:50:13] <pfred1> must be about 20 pounds
[22:50:17] <ReadError> jeeze
[22:50:30] <pfred1> I don't know I think my grandfather got them off a machinist he knew that died
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