#linuxcnc | Logs for 2012-11-21

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[00:14:48] <JT-Shop> yea! water tank works on the plasma
[00:26:30] <Tom_itx> woo hoo!
[00:28:30] <JT-Shop> no more jerry cans
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[00:56:27] <archivist> andypugh, they look like parts from an automatic
[00:56:48] <andypugh> I think he says that much.
[00:57:18] <andypugh> I thought they looked like a bargain, but actually it's a non-auction with him fishing for information.
[00:57:36] <archivist> yup, I saw that
[00:58:27] <andypugh> I am torn between the abuse of eBay and the fact it is actually quite a good way to find out what they are.
[00:58:36] <archivist> as bits they might be useful, almost looks like the right mount/similar to the mount on my bechler
[00:59:02] <andypugh> Aye, I thought that they looked like some of your bits.
[00:59:48] <archivist> but different enough that they could be off a wickman
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[01:01:24] <andypugh> They are certainly the nicest ones of what they are that I have ever seen.
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[01:03:08] <archivist> the top left item is a two position drill, I have a three position one for my machine
[01:03:58] <andypugh> Top-right looks like a live tool of some sort
[01:04:40] <andypugh> lathes.co.uk might be the right place to ask
[01:05:16] <archivist> bit may well be off a Tornos
[01:07:08] <andypugh> <giggle> A friend just said "Apple has patented Christmas" http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-20392386
[01:19:56] <archivist> patents get funnier https://www.techdirt.com/blog/innovation/articles/20121116/02165221072/patent-office-perhaps-forgetting-what-year-it-is-locks-down-mobile-app-development-platforms.shtml
[01:20:31] <archivist> I watch groklaw :)
[01:24:32] <PCW> Ive been watching groklaw since the SCO fiasco
[01:25:22] <archivist> and me, I even contributed once or twice
[01:25:39] <archivist> till my login failed one day
[01:26:32] <PCW> That reminds me to take a look at investorvillage's sco page
[01:32:55] <andypugh> Have you ever seen an old steam engine with this instead of a crank: http://www.flickr.com/photos/elsie/2198525390/in/set-72157613636157609 That is because the crank was patented.
[01:34:47] <andypugh> And then there was the Selden Patents, he patented the idea of a carriage driven by an engine and tried to claim a royalty from every car manufacturer. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_B._Selden
[01:41:41] <archivist> prior art http://www.collection.archivist.info//searchv13.php?searchstr=glasgow+drag
[01:42:45] <andypugh> I didn't know there was anyhting left of the Steam Drag
[01:43:17] <andypugh> Wasn't that 1780 or thereabouts?
[01:44:01] <andypugh> Ah, no, 1830.
[01:44:45] <andypugh> The servo-steering is cleverer than it looks.
[01:46:11] <andypugh> Gugnot had a self-propelled steam engine in 1769. That might have been what I was thinking of.
[01:48:29] <andypugh> I meant Cugnot, of course.
[01:48:42] <archivist> I was just searching my mail about the Gurney which reminds me of http://www.rug.nl/museum/collecties/wsn/natuurkunde
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[01:49:03] <andypugh> Wikipedia says that he didn't use cranks either, but ratchets.
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[01:51:53] <andypugh> That's lovely!
[01:52:38] <andypugh> One tends to forget that electricity was much earlier than the stuff that happened at the end of the 19thC
[02:01:38] <andypugh> I first heard of the Gurney at Kew Bridge. I suspect you might have too>
[02:02:54] <archivist> I first heard of the gurney when I took that picture up in Glasgow, seems Trevithick was up to something in 1804 http://unitedcats.wordpress.com/2007/06/28/what-in-the-name-of-god-is-that/
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[02:09:36] <andypugh> I differ from the author in one respect, I would _love_ to ride in that Trevithick replica
[02:11:22] <andypugh> I can't decide if that Gurney warrants restoratiion. It's right on the cusp between too far gone, and enough left.
[02:11:59] <andypugh> I think I would go for a good clean and a perspex model of the rest of the machine in that case.
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[02:16:11] <archivist> I did a google image search and it seems they have mounted it on stilts at its working height since I saw it
[02:18:00] <archivist> http://www.travellingeuropewithkids.com/week-21-scotland-glasgow/
[02:19:51] <andypugh> Seems to be in a box with wheels drawn on, which is close to my suggestion
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[02:53:45] <RoyOnWheels> any homemade waterjets?
[02:59:15] <jdh> not likely
[03:00:18] <RoyOnWheels> you'll blast your eye out, eh
[03:01:53] <jdh> it would be cool
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[03:52:50] <icee> hey.. i'm having trouble running multiple axis instances ... i get an error message HAL: ERROR: duplicate component name 'axisui'
[03:53:02] <icee> but the manual discusses this/claims this is OK
[03:53:41] <icee> this is on 2.4.6 with (obviously) axis
[03:54:12] <Jymmm> axis are numbered starting at ZERO, not ONE. verify this in you setup.
[03:54:29] <icee> not like, axis like a machine axis.. axis like the UI.
[03:54:49] <icee> i want to have a machine status via remote X on another monitor
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[03:55:59] <icee> i'm referring to http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Running_Multiple_User_Interfaces on the wiki, among other sources
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[04:09:48] <skunkworks> icee: you might want to ask this on the mailing list.
[04:11:32] <icee> skunkworks: thanks.. i'll probably just cope/nuke that wiki page
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[04:36:38] <Aero-Tec> hi
[04:36:59] <Aero-Tec> bought a new motor for the lathe
[04:37:25] <Aero-Tec> it was not the ideal motor, in fact it is being a real pain to put in
[04:38:49] <Aero-Tec> if I was not in a hurry to get lathe running I would have been far further ahead going 3 phase and a VFD
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[05:32:08] <Tecan> http://i.imgur.com/i3STw.gif
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[06:31:53] <mevon> hello, where can I find this file "emc/task/taskintf.cc 614:"
[06:33:01] <mazafaka1> mevon: they are currently not here, it's night right now where most of the people are.
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[06:42:07] <mevon> meh
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[06:47:34] <abetusk> Anyone have a guess why this is happening? http://imgur.com/cDHrP . Each vertical trace was split into three subtraces and traced out in a random order
[07:00:37] <mazafaka> abetusk: What is it? A G-code obtained from some software? Then some program has created it this way, probably in order to 'cut' long sides first, and only then to detach the detail.
[07:01:09] <abetusk> mazafaka, I created the g-code. As far as I know, the g-code is not the issue and it's something else.
[07:01:41] <mazafaka> And why do you show the secret NASA microchip to everybody?
[07:01:45] <mazafaka> :)
[07:02:10] <abetusk> it's just a resolution test...
[07:02:14] <mazafaka> G-code can be created manually, and in a CAM software.
[07:03:23] <mazafaka> Software can create a tricky G-code, which is in fact ridiculously wrong. And program just follows to g0, g1, g2/g3 commands which are given.
[07:05:02] <abetusk> I understand that. I don't think the g-code is the problem. I believe it is another issue
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[07:10:17] <roh> well.. can you pastebin the gcode?
[07:11:11] <mazafaka> upload somewhere (for example pastebin.org) the g-code, machine only can follow to the g-code, it can not divide straight moves onto pieces being cut in various order.
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[07:11:51] <abetusk> Yes, I will do that. It's a little complicated as it was programatically generated, but I'm happy to do that. Give me a minute and I'll give a link.
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[07:18:19] <mazafaka> I need to go, but if some program creates such a code, you will need to deal with the program.
[07:20:24] <Loetmichel> mornin'
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[07:23:54] <abetusk> mazafaka, I already told you, I created this program. I am the author of the g-code and the program that produces the g-code.
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[07:48:32] <abetusk> http://pastebin.com/0hxcj2nq <-- a little long, but there it is
[07:48:45] <abetusk> I just looked at it openscam and the vertical bars seem fine to me.
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[07:50:35] <DJ9DJ> moin
[07:53:13] <archivist> abetusk, er, why the repetition I would re write that using O codes
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[07:55:15] <abetusk> Theres some repetition, but overall I don't think it's so bad
[07:55:26] <abetusk> what should I write with 0 codes?
[07:55:37] <archivist> you have many moves that are already at the point you move to
[07:56:31] <archivist> how did you generate the file
[07:56:48] <abetusk> Yeah, so I have a few extra at each point. Sorry about that. It was quick to program and I didn't try to optimize for that. I shouldn't affect the end result too much though
[07:56:58] <abetusk> Python script
[07:57:07] <archivist> I dont trust it seeing that
[07:58:07] <abetusk> ?
[07:58:15] <abetusk> It's just a bit of redundant information
[07:58:58] <abetusk> I have a bunch of loops all over the place that generate the positions. It's just easier to do it that way then try to eak out the small optimization of saving a few gcode lines
[07:59:19] <abetusk> Do you really think this is going to cause the problem that I'm seeing?
[07:59:49] <abetusk> *eke
[08:00:30] <archivist> well I see z varying which is a n engraving test I would not expect
[08:00:36] <archivist> is/if
[08:00:59] <abetusk> yes, I'm routing PCBs. The PCB warps. I have done height sensing and interpolation to generate the g-code
[08:02:33] <archivist> also check your source information then as you are probably just doing what was in the source gerber
[08:04:30] <roh> abetusk: maybe you should build/buy something like this: http://www.easgmbh.de/index.php?area=1&p=static&page=tiefenregler
[08:04:37] <roh> no clue how its named in english
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[08:06:06] <abetusk> Look, I'm happy to talk about the particular path I took to get here, but this is all beside the point and completely avoiding the question.
[08:06:34] <archivist> you have confidence it your code, I do not
[08:06:39] <archivist> it/in
[08:06:40] <abetusk> _I_ am generating the g-code. _I_ am generating the program to generate the g-code. It is a resolution test, produced from a python script that produces g-code
[08:07:19] <abetusk> there is no eagle file. There is no gerber file. It's just a resolution test. If you don't believe it's doing what it should be doing, put it into any one of the many g-code interpreters online.
[08:07:35] <abetusk> I happen to like openscam, but please feel free to use the one that you like the best
[08:07:51] <archivist> I use axis
[08:08:02] <abetusk> For example, here is one that can easily be used: http://www.buildlog.net/gview/index.html
[08:08:35] <archivist> not on my browser
[08:08:35] <abetusk> I did height sensing because it cost under $10 in parts and was the only thing I thought had a chance of getting the resolution and accuracy I was trying for
[08:08:50] <abetusk> having some teflon do-dadd would be awesome but I can't spend $500-1000 dollars for it
[08:09:03] <abetusk> maybe at some point I will do that but that is way out of my price range right now
[08:09:16] <archivist> but you really should double check your code
[08:09:25] <roh> they are cheap. i think we paid <150E for ours
[08:09:40] <abetusk> I have triple checked my code. I have looked at it. I have run it through openscam and done a visual inspection
[08:09:43] <roh> it also helps with the dust a lot
[08:09:45] <abetusk> roh, where'd you get it?
[08:10:50] <roh> http://thiemig.de/ .. on the left "Gravurtiefenregler"
[08:11:00] <archivist> if you checked/fixed your code there would be no redundant moves
[08:11:07] <abetusk> anyway, I believe I have done my due diligence in checking the g-code. I do not believe it is a g-code problem but either an electronics or a mechanical one
[08:11:30] <abetusk> archivist, this is beside the point. You are hiding behind dogma and dodging the real issue
[08:11:38] <archivist> backlash in the mechanics
[08:12:58] <archivist> I did test code in printers to check mechanics in the past, also stiction where the direction is different
[08:14:43] <archivist> but that code is unreadable for me to check what it actually does as it does not have the comments to match the image
[08:16:06] <roh> yeah.. backlash and redundant moves make sense to explain some weird offsets
[08:16:36] <roh> where does the backlash come from? no ballbearing spindles?
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[08:17:56] <abetusk> roh, how does it work?
[08:18:06] <roh> ?
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[08:48:38] <archivist> your test has about 40 lines that I can see, the gcode 6k lines "some redundancy" would seem an over statement
[08:49:41] <archivist> the test image has no scale to compare the gcode with
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[09:00:16] <archivist> and reviewing the code one can see the joints, line 123 in source is extended at 223 in the same direction
[09:03:32] <archivist> it also shows your mechanical errors if it has come to the start point from a differing direction, the line I chose to look at both have +x so should join nicely
[09:06:00] <archivist> if I have chosen a character line then that is because you dont have usable comments
[09:08:44] <archivist> look at line 1785 and follow it down ward to the next line
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[09:34:59] <mazafaka> abetusk: created this program' could mean many various things. I'm looking at your g-code produced by your computer program
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[09:40:45] <archivist> linuxcnc does what it is told it does not divide lines up and do sections in some other order
[09:43:23] <mazafaka> abetusk: instead of 'g1 f50' you could write f50 on that line at the beginning, and some unnecessary fully-written commands make the g-code human-unreadable.
[09:46:21] <archivist> the g0 f100 before that!
[09:48:38] <archivist> first thing I do when I have a bug is look in the mirror
[09:51:43] <mazafaka> http://pastebin.com/zaJVf4Kh
[09:53:59] <mazafaka> I have realised some people think G-code for milling and turning is an easy to do thing. They do not know that you will learn something continuously while you are milling/turning the details.
[09:54:54] <roh> well.. its one thing to know how to program in a language and make stuff do what one wants.. but to mill or turn one needs first know how to ;)
[09:55:20] <mazafaka> manual mills and lathes give some experience.
[09:55:29] * roh learned a lot about removing material
[09:56:04] <archivist> thing I miss from cnc is the feel of manual
[09:56:13] <roh> mazafaka: we only have a manual lathe, and a cnc mill, and i must say i am much more motivated with the latter... simply because i am a lazy bum and as long as i can make machines do all the work its nice work
[09:56:17] <mazafaka> I plan to learn a lot during next year, I will work at another place.
[09:57:01] <roh> actually i cannot really see why anybody still gives into the pain of backlash on manual machines.. why dont people use ballspindles everywhere now?
[09:59:15] <mazafaka> roh: i milled a lot of huge thingies - holes in details which are several meters long and such - and I want to say that manual lathe, any detail on lathe is an easy job.
[10:00:45] <roh> ;)
[10:00:47] <mazafaka> roh: we had a shop with lathes of 1942, it lacks ball nuts. And and all relatively modern and hardly-used lathes had a huge backlash
[10:01:15] <roh> well.. i come from the 'rapid protoyping hackers' front.. so when it comes to tools i tend to like the easy to use cnc things
[10:01:33] <roh> lasercutter, plotters, 3d printers.. etc
[10:02:28] <roh> milling is much more preparation, regardless if i need one or 10 times the same piece
[10:02:30] <mazafaka> Let's say that for USD 500 per month I only agree to work on manual lathe, and for milling of whatever, including huge steel details, with verification of crappy g-code given to me, I only agree to work for USD 1000-1500 per month.
[10:03:24] <roh> hm.. where are you from? that sounds oddly cheap ;)
[10:04:52] <roh> but these old machines are fine... i mean.. tools is not just crap like old stuff often iss.. its something which has lots of potentials for multiple lifetimes of retrofitting and reuse
[10:04:57] <mazafaka> roh: heh, i have never seen such toys, to be honest. We have very cold shops, working hard. Things I do - sometimes it were three working places during a day - make my job a tough job. I was always dirty from coolant, and so forth.
[10:05:01] <mazafaka> roh: Russia
[10:05:06] <roh> in germany we usually say 'buy green steel'
[10:05:34] <mazafaka> what does it mean?
[10:05:36] <roh> because all the old machines had this typical green hammer-style laque
[10:05:49] <Loetmichel> roh: green is the colour of deckel maschines
[10:05:55] <mazafaka> yeah, they're painted in green
[10:05:58] <roh> Loetmichel: hehe.. not only
[10:06:08] <Loetmichel> and that means: buy a used industrial machine
[10:06:30] <mazafaka> some used machines could be in a good condition.
[10:06:38] <roh> i wish i had space for real industrial stuff.
[10:07:01] <mazafaka> I wish a I had a bandsaw
[10:07:22] <mazafaka> I already have a drill and angle grinder
[10:07:33] <roh> our mill is from china and the lathe from einhell (also china i guess) .. but we got some double-stone-grinder and the drillpress form interkrenn (old and propably gone company)
[10:08:23] <roh> i wish for a small disk cutting saw.. to cut aluminium bars an extruded stuff to nice and clean angled pieces.
[10:09:48] <mazafaka> drillpress is very usable, especially the one with spindle bearings in a good shape. Hand drill is useless. It is either for holes up to 10 mm in diameter, or for the use as screwdriver (my old 400W Soviet drill capable to screw in huge screws - into wood and MDF and such).
[10:09:51] <roh> the electric hacksaw we got is from the gdr.. its nice for rough stuff but its not precise and clean angled
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[13:39:14] <jthornton> Sweet! I finally cracked the "what tab is current" nut
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[15:15:50] <abetusk> archivist, the picture shows one segment of a whole run. That one segment has around 70 lines, not 20. That pattern is repeated again 7 more times on the PCB for a total of around 560 lines or so. The whole point of the test was to create dashed line in the horizontal and vertical direction and to do them out of order so that I could test what was going on.
[15:16:13] <abetusk> This would have been immediately obvious to you had you put it into a gcode interpreter.
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[15:34:35] <cradek> abetusk: looking at http://imgur.com/cDHrP but have not looked at your gcode. I suggest checking what happens when you position from the left vs right (test for X backlash) and cut upward vs downward (test for spindle/tool deflection)
[15:34:51] <cradek> with randomness it's hard to guess what the problem is
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[15:35:23] <archivist> damned isp adsl retrains what was my last line
[15:35:47] <TekniQue> 09:56:04 < archivist> thing I miss from cnc is the feel of manual
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[15:36:21] <archivist> thanks
[15:36:32] <pcw_home> A bug /mechanical problem in the Z compensation?
[15:36:41] <Jymmm> archivist: https://gist.github.com/0c55efafd0c291ea7a8d
[15:36:54] <archivist> no he has a borked code writer
[15:36:58] <archivist> <archivist> and you failed to under stand my comments it seems look at block at line 1783 and block at 1792
[15:36:58] <archivist> <archivist> you seem to refuse to believe your code could be in any error
[15:36:58] <archivist> <archivist> those two blocks have the same x see the Y joint
[15:36:58] <archivist> <archivist> I do not need to load it into anything, I can understand gcode
[15:36:58] <archivist> <archivist> that shows the fault you complain of
[15:37:00] <archivist> <archivist> I did a simple find to see it http://www.archivist.info/cnc/Screenshot-alignmenttest.ngc%20-%20gedit.png
[15:37:03] <archivist> <archivist> loading into a cut viewer hides the error
[15:37:54] <archivist> he also has a mechanical lost motion problem I think
[15:38:09] <Jymmm> and an attitude problem too
[15:38:14] <archivist> yup
[15:38:39] <archivist> first thing I do is look in the mirror for code faults
[15:38:49] <Jymmm> What we have here is a failure to communicate!
[15:38:59] <pcw_home> seems like a gcode loop for the stripes would be cleaner
[15:39:22] <archivist> he has written a python "thing"
[15:39:48] <Jymmm> I dont do gcode, but even I can do better than 6000 lines
[15:39:48] <cradek> archivist: can you explain the gcode problem you found? I don't understand what the highlighted stuff means.
[15:40:17] <pcw_home> and parametizable
[15:40:53] <archivist> cradek, he thinks linuxcnc is cutting the lines and doing them in an odd order
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[15:41:11] <cradek> hm, I didn't read that in his question
[15:41:14] <archivist> <abetusk> Anyone have a guess why this is happening? http://imgur.com/cDHrP . Each vertical trace was split into three subtraces and traced out in a random order
[15:41:40] <cradek> oh I understood it as: he made his gcode-generating code do that to test alignment
[15:42:05] <archivist> well that question seems otherwise
[15:42:14] <pcw_home> I just though he wanted a resolution chart
[15:42:23] <pcw_home> t
[15:42:35] <archivist> as it is it does show alignment and backlash
[15:42:40] <cradek> whoah I guess you all read it differently than I did
[15:43:06] <cradek> if he meant what I read, no wonder you all talked past each other for a long time :-/
[15:43:21] <archivist> I hope I read the question as he wanted
[15:43:46] <cradek> he's gone now, guess it doesn't matter
[15:44:00] <archivist> and I can see his line order start end is a bit odd
[15:44:26] <cradek> > The whole point of the test was to create dashed line in the horizontal and vertical direction and to do them out of order so that I could test what was going on.
[15:45:03] <archivist> my client dropped out this morning too, missed that line
[15:47:00] <archivist> but I did say <archivist> backlash in the mechanics at 8:11
[15:47:34] <Jymmm> You said it, but due to the stick up his ass, he didn't hear it.
[15:47:48] <archivist> :)
[15:47:52] <cradek> meh
[15:48:53] <Jymmm> cradek: No, he completely ignored that part. It sounds like he didn't know what "backlash" even was.
[15:49:17] <cradek> he got a hundred answers irrelevant to his question, and got defensive because he thought you were all being obtuse
[15:49:51] <archivist> relevant to the first question I saw
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[15:50:14] <cradek> the basic problem was he asked the first question badly and didn't notice that was what had gone wrong. :-/
[15:50:35] <archivist> I can see that
[15:50:51] <cradek> maybe he'll come back in a while.
[15:51:09] <cradek> on 2012-11-08 freebsd got support for 2.88MB 3.5" floppies
[15:51:20] <Jymmm> ROTF
[15:51:56] <Jymmm> WOOHOO On the crusty old dried up BLEEDING EDGE now!
[16:01:15] <jdh> I've never seen/used a 2.88
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[16:05:56] <cradek> a lot of real IBM microchannel machines had them
[16:06:11] <cradek> I am not sure anyone else ever did
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[16:14:05] <Jymmm> MCA?! Oh Gawd, that pre-dates clones even!!!
[16:15:07] <archivist> dont think so
[16:16:25] <Jymmm> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micro_Channel_architecture
[16:16:38] <Jymmm> 1987
[16:17:35] <Jymmm> I never saw a clone with MCA, just ISA.
[16:19:20] <jdh> I have some MCA clones at work.
[16:19:31] <archivist> Compaq started in 1982 and dunno how many others there were at the time
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[16:20:48] <jdh> mine are NEC. Hoping to replace them in 2013, but they have been running for years.
[16:21:13] <Jymmm> O_o
[16:21:29] * Jymmm hands jdh the shovel
[16:21:44] <jdh> they run a DOS app with a Novell TCP/IP stack to xfer data
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[16:22:28] <jdh> custom MCA cards
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[16:22:49] <Jymmm> jdh: Ok, I'll bite... what does this DOS app do?
[16:23:21] <jdh> ultrasonic weld inspection
[16:23:56] <jdh> I have others running on PDP-11's. The MCA systems were upgrades from PDP's
[16:24:55] <jdh> Latest iteration are PCI boxes running windows... guess which ones are the least reliable.
[16:25:55] <Jymmm> Why windows if the DOS works? There are REALPORT drivers
[16:26:37] <jdh> what's a realport driver
[16:27:15] <Jymmm> jdh: They allow using network cards from DOS w/o the BS
[16:27:39] <jdh> no BS involved, plain old C socket library
[16:28:23] <Jymmm> jdh: BS being mem mgnt
[16:28:44] <jdh> none for this app, just all flat space
[16:28:55] <Jymmm> In windows?
[16:29:15] <jdh> definitely in windows.
[16:29:31] <Jymmm> I'm talking DOS here
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[16:33:11] <jdh> the dos app runs in flat space, but it isn't memory intensive.
[16:34:12] <Jymmm> So no HIMEM.SYS or EMM386 in the startup files?
[16:34:40] <Jymmm> CONFIG.SYS or AUTOEXEC.BAT
[16:35:04] <jdh> pharlap
[16:36:56] <Jymmm> that's still a memory manager
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[16:37:50] <Jymmm> Just like 386MAX was
[16:38:05] <pfred1> memory compression?
[16:38:38] <Jymmm> pfred1: No, just less of a clusterphuck than M$ did =)
[16:38:57] <pfred1> I think i might still have a copy of 386MAX kicking around
[16:39:11] <pfred1> I may have thrown it out though ...
[16:39:20] <Jymmm> i just wish I had a copy of Desqview
[16:39:29] <jdh> the old ones use CAMAC crates for electronics. New ones have high speed digitizers
[16:40:15] <pfred1> high speed is a relative term
[16:40:51] <pfred1> yesterday I was reading about an optical encryption system that uses 50 picosecond time slices to quantum analyze the data stream
[16:41:12] <pfred1> they said it was the time it took light to travel less than 2 inches
[16:42:07] <jdh> these are just 1GHz
[16:44:05] <pfred1> picoseconds are measured in terahertz
[16:44:42] <Jymmm> 11,784,960,000 inches per second (in a vacuum)
[16:45:12] <pfred1> blink of an eye doesn't quite cover it I'm afraid
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[16:45:50] <pfred1> I imagine they meant in a fiberoptic cable not a vacuum
[16:46:16] <Jymmm> that just slows it down by the VF is all
[16:47:04] <pfred1> well the article was rather short on details discussing military security but still 50 picoseconds I've no idea how they're accomplishing this at all
[16:47:44] <pfred1> it was something to do with quantum mechanics
[16:48:18] <pfred1> I mean you need wormhole circuitry to work that fast
[16:49:08] <pfred1> it is science fiction to me
[16:49:13] <Jymmm> #2 Pencil super conductors =)
[16:49:53] <pfred1> all I know is I'd like to get my hands on the system so I could benchmark it with RTAI for its latency :)
[16:50:10] <Jymmm> that's sad
[16:50:13] <Jymmm> lol
[16:50:25] <pfred1> be the top dog on the database
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[16:51:03] <pfred1> my stepper motors run so fast they go back in time
[16:51:18] <Jymmm> No, I mean that after all these years that checking a mobo for latency is still a main issue to contend with. Well, that and you wanting to check latency on a billion dollar computer too =)
[16:51:56] <pfred1> tech that advanced I don't even think it is a matter of money anymore no that is sheer power
[16:52:59] <pfred1> the article suggested the tech will filter down to the streets someday though I guess everything always does
[16:53:18] <Jymmm> After Labor Day
[16:54:43] <Jymmm> pfred1: Did it say "encryption" or "cryptanalyst"?
[16:54:54] <pfred1> I was all worried about my latency but it really isn't an issue I can't run my motors that fast hooked up to hardware anyways
[16:55:13] <pfred1> Jymmm it was for packet transferring private keys through a public network
[16:55:40] <pfred1> with it they could tell if the packet was captured or not by reading the quantum signature of the light itself
[16:55:59] <pfred1> it was seriously messed up stuff
[16:56:08] <Jymmm> Oh MITM detection.
[16:56:35] <pfred1> maybe I don't recall the acronym
[16:57:11] <Jymmm> MITM is a "common" issue. Especially with SSH
[16:57:31] <pfred1> they said now anything transferred over fiber can be sniffed if someone just bends the cable
[16:57:56] <pfred1> but using this stuff they can tell if someone is doing that or not
[16:58:21] <pfred1> least that is how I understood it
[16:58:30] <Jymmm> Well, sorta. but when you bend the fiber that much to be able to "tap it" the db level drops so badly it's almost like someone pulled the plug.
[16:58:54] <pfred1> I guess this is for people really good at bending the cable catching them?
[16:59:34] <pfred1> I know the guy who installed my fiber was really careful with the sweeps
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[17:00:16] <Jymmm> It's kinda horseshit in a way. Becasue ANY one that does crypto knows you NEVER EVER transmit private keys *EVER*.
[17:01:09] <Jymmm> That's the whole principal of PKI.
[17:01:15] <pfred1> Jymmm well this stuff is so you can
[17:01:31] <pfred1> then you can use one time pads
[17:02:34] <Jymmm> pfred1: READ MY LIPS, you never transmit private keys, ever.
[17:02:58] <pfred1> you can if you can measure the quantum signature of your packets
[17:03:12] <Jymmm> NEVER
[17:03:29] <pfred1> me and you never can but the big brass is working on it
[17:03:31] <Jymmm> You should see what they do now with just SSL
[17:04:13] <Jymmm> pfred1: Well, someone is selling them some snakeoil, no matter how fast it is =)
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[17:05:13] <pfred1> the gist of it is they can tell if anyone else has read the photons
[17:06:08] <Jymmm> Writing in space... $1M USD Pen vs Pencil.
[17:06:45] <Jymmm> 10¢ pencil at that =)
[17:06:46] <cradek> http://www.snopes.com/business/genius/spacepen.asp
[17:06:55] <ReadError> Jymmm: pencil = dust
[17:06:57] <ReadError> and particles
[17:07:02] <pfred1> Fischer developed the pen for $250,000 of their own money and gave it to NASA
[17:07:13] <Jymmm> ReadError: versus space dust?
[17:07:27] <Jymmm> ReadError: or dead skin cells?
[17:07:49] <pfred1> cradek is that the truth?
[17:08:23] <pfred1> actually the Soviets started using the space pen too after they could get ahold of it
[17:10:58] <pfred1> well OK they didn't give NASA the pens but they didn't charge them for the researc heither
[17:11:29] <pfred1> I think i paid more than $2.95 for mine at the gift shop too so NASA is making tons of money off space pens
[17:12:26] <cradek> pfred1: a lot of things cost a lot less in 1967
[17:12:52] <pfred1> cradek I think it was 1976 when I bought mine
[17:13:00] <pfred1> was during the Viking mission
[17:13:54] <pfred1> perhaps not though I've been to the cape before that too
[17:14:21] <pfred1> once I even got to ride on the lunar rover simulator after a parade
[17:15:57] <pfred1> the viking mission was exciting though they had a robot setup in the assembly building mimicing the movements the lander on Mars was doing
[17:16:13] <pfred1> it was pretty cool to watch it dig in the sand
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[17:55:06] <IchGuckLive> hi all
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[19:06:54] <IchGuckLive> lots of posting today B)
[19:08:34] <mevon> hello anyone can help me solve why my softlimits are stopping my machine?
[19:08:45] <mevon> hi IchGuckLive
[19:09:40] <mevon> Iv looked into taskintf.cc and seems a flag is lifted and gives me this fault
[19:10:25] <mevon> must be something with the home switches it keeps telling me i cannot unhome while moving
[19:12:32] <mevon> it looks like the feedback is ok, Im pretty sure its where it says it is...
[19:13:26] <IchGuckLive> mevon: is te home the same as the softlimit
[19:13:40] <IchGuckLive> or is there a limitswitch
[19:13:45] <mevon> try to keep different
[19:13:54] <mevon> I have min and max
[19:14:27] <IchGuckLive> ok does the mashine move away from home
[19:14:30] <mevon> eventually I want to combine min and home
[19:14:48] <IchGuckLive> is homing sequenz complete ?
[19:14:53] <mevon> it moves a little then faults
[19:15:12] <mevon> you mean homing all axis?
[19:15:26] <IchGuckLive> please pastebin your ini file
[19:16:25] <mevon> with pleasure one moment
[19:17:23] <mevon> http://pastebin.com/CeKgCygt
[19:17:35] <mevon> wonna see my .hal too?
[19:17:56] <IchGuckLive> MACHINE = LinuxCNC-HAL-SIM-AXIS
[19:17:58] <IchGuckLive> WHY
[19:18:13] <IchGuckLive> isent this from stepconf generated
[19:19:12] <mevon> I started off a simulation
[19:19:22] <IchGuckLive> BAD
[19:19:37] <IchGuckLive> HOME = -0.100 why not zero
[19:19:53] <mevon> i tried diff things to make it work
[19:19:53] <IchGuckLive> MIN_LIMIT = 0.000
[19:20:03] <mevon> like inverting both
[19:20:07] <mevon> min and home
[19:20:14] <IchGuckLive> home is below softlimit so it cant trefel there
[19:20:19] <IchGuckLive> give it a positiv
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[19:20:36] <mevon> ok like 0.000 ?
[19:20:52] <mevon> what should min be then?
[19:20:54] <IchGuckLive> 0.1
[19:21:07] <IchGuckLive> it will move to this HOME at the end of homing
[19:21:25] <IchGuckLive> HOME_SEARCH_VEL = 0.0 it needs a -1
[19:21:33] <mevon> oh
[19:21:44] <IchGuckLive> HOME_LATCH_VEL = 0.0 you do not need this
[19:22:13] <IchGuckLive> Same on AXIS 1
[19:22:23] <IchGuckLive> line 164
[19:23:21] <IchGuckLive> on Z where is your home switch TOP or somwhere els
[19:24:06] <IchGuckLive> MIN_LIMIT = -0.25 i guss it shoudt be the other way
[19:24:31] <IchGuckLive> as it travels in minus not in plus on the home switch
[19:24:55] <mevon> yeah I changed that
[19:25:17] <IchGuckLive> where is your home switch in Z
[19:25:33] <IchGuckLive> can the mashine move more after homing UP
[19:25:43] <IchGuckLive> or is it also the MAX limit
[19:26:33] <IchGuckLive> AXIS 2 line 187 ->HOME = -0.2
[19:26:54] <IchGuckLive> MIN_LIMIT = -1.25
[19:26:59] <mevon> well I havent decided that yet
[19:27:06] <mevon> Im not sure what is the best
[19:27:11] <IchGuckLive> MAX_LIMIT = 0.002
[19:27:23] <IchGuckLive> TOP is always the best on Z
[19:27:38] <mevon> and everymove is in minus?
[19:27:43] <IchGuckLive> HOME_SEARCH_VEL = 0.25
[19:28:01] <IchGuckLive> YES every move is in minus on G53
[19:28:16] <mevon> at best I can touch off the top of my working material?
[19:28:20] <IchGuckLive> as you toch off in minus you can move plus
[19:28:21] <mevon> to make it 0
[19:28:50] <IchGuckLive> yes then you got the difference to the G53 point to move in +
[19:30:01] <IchGuckLive> mevon: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/config/ini_homing.html
[19:30:21] <mevon> oh sweet
[19:32:00] <IchGuckLive> mevon: i woudt leve HOME_Offset all to Zero
[19:32:15] <IchGuckLive> or just hide it in the ini
[19:32:36] <IchGuckLive> it is then Tero so the Homeswitch is Your G53 ZERO of the mashine
[19:33:26] <IchGuckLive> if the switches ar in the XY negativ ege and Z positiv
[19:33:28] <tjb1> The wait for packages to get out of China is horrible :(
[19:33:49] <IchGuckLive> tjb1: if you pay more its fast
[19:34:07] <IchGuckLive> i got a HK to Germy within 48Hr
[19:34:20] <IchGuckLive> 40USD shipment
[19:34:43] <IchGuckLive> ok im done im off BY
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[19:39:03] <tjb1> Wish I could have picked better shipping...
[19:40:06] <mevon> bye thks
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[19:55:49] <mevon> hourray for andy
[19:55:52] <mevon> :)
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[19:56:28] <mevon> and tjb1 too
[19:57:17] <tjb1> ?
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[19:57:42] <mevon> just celebrating arrivals nothing els
[20:00:38] <mevon> hey andypugh can you help me with my limit switches?
[20:00:47] <tjb1> I had to restart computer
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[20:00:59] <mevon> tjb1, ok np
[20:01:14] <andypugh> Do they not work?
[20:01:15] <mevon> I just think youre notorious thats it
[20:01:30] <tjb1> Steam…only a 3mb download…now its a 99mb update before it will open
[20:02:24] <mevon> they do but maybe not in a good way, theres gotta be something I havent set with linuxcnc, I keep getting a "cannot unhome while moving" error
[20:02:41] <mevon> I cant wait for steam to be on linux
[20:03:29] <andypugh> Seems odd
[20:03:56] <mevon> here is my ini file
[20:03:57] <mevon> http://pastebin.com/2WqgCqmA
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[20:04:58] <andypugh> The problem will be in the HAL
[20:05:38] <mevon> here it is
[20:05:39] <mevon> http://pastebin.com/4EY0DRuf
[20:06:11] <mevon> sry its not cleaned yet
[20:07:19] <mevon> I get this error
[20:07:42] <mevon> joint 2 following error; emc/task/taskintf.cc 614: Error on axis 2, command number 231; Cannot unhome while moving, joint 2
[20:08:04] <mevon> when I try to home all axis
[20:08:46] <mevon> I get similar errors when I try to jog different axis
[20:08:47] <tjb1> Shouldnt home offset be negative?
[20:09:05] <tjb1> On your z
[20:09:08] <mevon> tjb1, idk :S maybe
[20:09:30] <mevon> I am trying to use my max limit sw for homing
[20:09:36] <andypugh> Do the limit switches from the Arduino behave properly?
[20:09:40] <mevon> then go back to 1.000
[20:09:54] <tjb1> Home is what it sets the home position to
[20:10:05] <tjb1> home offset is where it moves from doing the home to set the home number
[20:10:07] <andypugh> HAL is set up for Xmin as home
[20:10:10] <mevon> andypugh, yes it was working before I added the feedback
[20:10:26] <andypugh> Which feedback?
[20:10:33] <mevon> position feedback
[20:11:09] <mevon> tjb1 was talking about the Z not X
[20:11:16] <andypugh> Do you see f-error problems too?
[20:11:43] <mevon> how could I see that?
[20:12:06] <andypugh> It should be an error message
[20:12:07] <mevon> tjb1 I though HOME_OFFSET were relative positions
[20:12:27] <tjb1> mevon: You want Z to home at max, then drop to 1"?
[20:12:33] <mevon> andy I load from terminal and all I see is what I posted above
[20:12:40] <andypugh> The "unhome" message is generally due to spurious E-stop signals, but you don't seem to have that wired.
[20:12:43] <mevon> tjb1 yes
[20:12:53] <tjb1> and you have 8" travel?
[20:13:06] <mevon> not on Z
[20:13:23] <mevon> * is commented out
[20:13:26] <mevon> 8
[20:13:31] <tjb1> You have a min limit of -8
[20:13:35] <mevon> #
[20:13:40] <tjb1> oh ok
[20:14:00] <tjb1> Didnt see that..how far can you travel down from the home trip?
[20:14:39] <mevon> my Z is 1.750" total
[20:14:56] <tjb1> set home_offset to -.750
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[20:14:59] <tjb1> leave home at 1.0
[20:15:20] <mevon> I try to set it so I can touch off the top of my material to be 0
[20:15:24] <mevon> ok
[20:15:47] <tjb1> your touchoff will set g54 to 0
[20:15:51] <mevon> so its a relative position notabsolute
[20:16:05] <andypugh> As long as top is bigger than bottom the actual numbers don't matter.
[20:16:23] <mevon> ok
[20:16:25] <tjb1> your trying to offset positive
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[20:18:10] <mevon> tjb1 what I want it to be is, home at max sw, then go back to 1.000
[20:18:53] <tjb1> If you have 1.75 of z travel, setting the home offset to -.750 will back it .750 off of the home trip location
[20:19:00] <tjb1> then home 1.0 will set that location as 1.0
[20:19:01] <mevon> I read it was absolute positioning, and I want to keep a .250 below 0 to drill
[20:19:19] <mevon> oh
[20:19:21] <mevon> ok
[20:20:29] <tjb1> Wait a sec
[20:20:34] <tjb1> I might have the two backwards
[20:20:59] <mevon> I still want home to be at 1.00\
[20:21:11] <tjb1> home offset = 1, home = -.750
[20:21:15] <tjb1> try that
[20:21:17] <mevon> and then touch off at 0
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[20:23:08] <tjb1> Why are you trying to Z to home at 1" above?
[20:23:49] <tjb1> as long as your touchoff 0 is .250 above the negative soft limit, you can go -.250
[20:25:46] <mevon> tjb1 I agree this needs maybe a little more polishing but I cannot move any axis so I think its a condition where linuxcnc expects something in order to move but cannot
[20:26:00] <mevon> well the move starts
[20:26:11] <mevon> but stops abruptly
[20:26:18] <tjb1> Could you move them before you started adding the homing?
[20:26:45] <mevon> I could move them before I decided to add position feedback
[20:27:44] <tjb1> try home -.250, home offset 0
[20:28:07] <tjb1> that should home, back off .250 and then set that position as 0
[20:29:12] <mevon> joint 0 following error; emc/task/taskintf.cc 614: Error on axis 0, command number 464; Cannot unhome while moving, joint 0;
[20:29:42] <mevon> andypugh, thats a f-error like you asked me before?
[20:30:15] <mevon> tjb1 oh sweet thaks
[20:30:40] <tjb1> does axis 2 work now?
[20:31:12] <mevon> tjb1 no has told you, the trouble is deeper and on all axis
[20:32:22] <andypugh> It would be instructive to increase the f-error numbers in the INI file (to a mile or so) and see if that changes anything.
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[20:33:00] <JT-Shop> http://imagebin.org/236750
[20:33:47] <mevon> andypugh, good idea!
[20:33:51] <tjb1> filling it huh
[20:34:17] <JT-Shop> yea
[20:34:37] <tjb1> JT-Shop: If you can make your plasma quench concoction not freeze, ill use it :)
[20:35:01] <JT-Shop> mind done freeze
[20:35:06] <JT-Shop> don't
[20:35:22] <tjb1> What temps?
[20:35:34] <JT-Shop> never gets below 55F in my shop
[20:35:43] <andypugh> I had imagined the slats below the water level.
[20:35:47] <tjb1> well of course it isnt going to freeze :/
[20:36:30] <pfred1> my shop usually freezes a few days of the year
[20:37:31] <JT-Shop> I can imagine them below the water level when I fix that oversight of not building a water table into the original design
[20:38:13] <JT-Shop> I just need to cut some new slats and make something to hold them up in the water table
[20:38:25] <JT-Shop> tjb1: got a close up of your slats?
[20:38:31] <tjb1> yes
[20:38:40] <tjb1> You "can" cut underwater with air plasmas
[20:38:50] <tjb1> it "can" ruin the torch also...
[20:40:37] <tjb1> http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/32310_4571141712564_2080936273_n.jpg
[20:42:05] <tjb1> http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/550064_4571154312879_2086822260_n.jpg
[20:42:14] <tjb1> http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/35584_4571164833142_397724634_n.jpg
[20:42:58] <JT-Shop> you just used HR flat for your slats?
[20:43:27] <tjb1> yes, 1/8x1.5
[20:43:31] <ink-> ooh, looks nice!
[20:44:08] <tjb1> Here is a better view of the arch
[20:44:09] <tjb1> http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/18081_4571162193076_91121735_n.jpg
[20:44:54] <tjb1> I need to add 2 more slat supports between the middle and end and thats it
[20:45:11] <JT-Shop> I was wondering about that
[20:45:47] <JT-Shop> the bottom of my tank is tapered to the middle so it would take more work to get the slat supports to fit
[20:46:02] <JT-Shop> but it is a lot smaller tank than yours
[20:46:05] <tjb1> I had $117 in 20' of the 1/8x2 and 160' of the 1/8x1.5
[20:46:31] <tjb1> make the table cut the supports with the taper on them :)
[20:46:55] <JT-Shop> yea it won't cost much for the slats
[20:47:00] <tjb1> I would of cut the slat holes too but I wasnt sure how to edge start with cnc
[20:48:34] <JT-Shop> I cut the slats with the plasma table before it was finished https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlXCdfPsQUU
[20:50:22] <JT-Shop> actually I can tack the slat holders at each end and just put some filler strips for support every foot or two so that makes it easy
[20:50:47] <tjb1> I have to restart again...
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[20:52:22] <tjb1> I give up on Steam :(
[20:52:44] <pfred1> Steam?
[20:53:02] <tjb1> computer gaming thing
[20:53:13] <pfred1> oh yes I've heard of it
[20:53:22] <pfred1> I just play Quake
[20:53:32] <pfred1> there are like a million user made maps for it now
[20:54:20] <pfred1> http://icculus.org/twilight/darkplaces/download.html
[20:54:36] <pfred1> it is a really nice game engine
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[20:54:56] <tjb1> I dont really do computer gaming
[20:55:12] <pfred1> I like to shoot stuff every now and again
[20:55:35] <tjb1> only reason I have steam is they had really cheap games so I got them...
[20:55:53] <tjb1> brb
[20:56:05] <pfred1> Quake wasn't cheap when I bought it but it hasn't cost me any more since then
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[20:56:50] <JT-Shop> it's amazing how flat the grinder table is now that I've properly installed the V rollers... zero in Y now from to rear
[20:56:58] * JT-Shop is a happy guy about that
[20:57:00] <pfred1> JT-Shop that is good
[20:57:34] <JT-Shop> it was out 0.015" from front to rear with the rollers in wrong and I wonder how they ground anything with it like that
[20:57:47] <pfred1> very crookedly
[20:57:58] <JT-Shop> yea
[20:58:35] <pfred1> keep your wheel dressed nicely
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[20:59:21] <pfred1> we used to do a booming industrial diamond business
[20:59:25] <JT-Shop> yea, I used to make cutters and heater punches on a surface grinders a long time ago
[20:59:30] <JT-Shop> header
[20:59:51] <pfred1> they said the machine shop was just so Henry could play in it the company made all their money on diamond sales
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[21:00:46] <pfred1> man i should have been robbing them blind
[21:01:08] <pfred1> at one point I htink the foreman was even encouraging me to
[21:01:30] <pfred1> but I was young and just didn't see things back then for what they were
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[21:14:11] <tjb1> im trying to watch the video jt…computer isnt playing nice
[21:16:15] <tjb1> JT-Shop: Is your Z done with those plastic slides that ride in the extrusion grooves?
[21:16:46] <JT-Shop> not any more, I replaced that with plain bearing linear slides
[21:17:21] <JT-Shop> they were too hard to keep them from haning up with dirt and crap
[21:17:54] <tjb1> one guy in another irc room tried to tell me they were better than linear rails
[21:18:31] <tjb1> I think it was one of those reprap professionals
[21:18:42] <pfred1> say no more
[21:18:59] <pfred1> re-crap
[21:20:02] <tjb1> Im making one but its not that prusa mendel garbage that is nothing but printed crap and all thread
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[21:28:02] <pfred1> academics really aren't too hardware savvy
[21:28:25] <pfred1> the whole project seems ill conceived at times
[21:29:16] <pfred1> a lot of people are pretty disillusioned at print quality often too
[21:29:46] <pfred1> I remember watching an old video of theirs where they made a plastic flip flop on the machine and all I could think was gee all that for a 50 cent item
[21:30:37] <tjb1> And the fact people printing the parts required for some of these printers are going to make them as cheap and fast as possible
[21:30:45] <tjb1> massive layer heights, almost no fill
[21:30:48] <pfred1> think different http://media.treehugger.com/assets/images/2011/10/water-bottles-shoes-001.jpg.400x300_q90_crop-smart.jpg
[21:31:56] <pfred1> I hear a big issue with the 3D printers is filament quality
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[21:32:10] <pfred1> the price of filament is certainly an issue
[21:33:06] <pfred1> I just haven't seen many people that seem to have the ability to put 3D printers to practical use is all
[21:33:27] <tjb1> The Form 1 looks nice but its $3200, the resin is expensive and 3dsystems now has a laysuit against them
[21:36:54] <pfred1> tjb1 get a load of this guy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTnmJUvSR98&feature=plcp
[21:37:02] <pfred1> he knows what to do with 3D printers
[21:37:21] <pfred1> he is one of my favorite YouTube characters
[21:38:45] <tjb1> my computer is just not workin today...
[21:38:50] <tjb1> time to restart again
[21:39:10] <pfred1> bummer missing out on JME
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[21:39:45] <pfred1> the thing he is playing with is one of the coolsest things I've ever seen come out of a 3D printer
[21:42:06] <bedah> http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/12/11/21/1333233/form1-3d-printer-and-kickstarter-get-sued-for-patent-infringment *spam*
[21:42:13] <andypugh> The RepRap wasn't meant to be good, it was meant to be self-printable.
[21:42:38] <pfred1> andypugh a blueprint for chickens huh?
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[21:43:34] <pfred1> it doesn't do you much good if you don't already have a rooster and a hen though now does it?
[21:44:38] <tjb1> thats a pretty sweet robot
[21:44:50] <pfred1> jamie is a classic screwball
[21:45:18] <pfred1> you have to begin at the beginning of his videos to really gain an appreciation for him
[21:45:26] <pfred1> when he is groveling in the dirt
[21:45:31] <jdh> or something
[21:46:03] <pfred1> no this guy is way out there there is no two ways around it
[21:48:39] <pfred1> the robot moves in this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXGR5NzBNu8&feature=relmfu
[21:49:26] <tjb1> UPS comes at 6:30 yesterday when I had something…today they drive by at 4:50
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[21:51:18] <tjb1> pfred1: I want what he is having.
[21:51:44] <pfred1> tjb1 I'm serious you have to watch his videos from the beginning it is hilarious
[21:51:54] <tjb1> He is using solar power too
[21:52:09] <pfred1> the guy is like a cartoon character come to life
[21:56:42] <DJ9DJ> gn8
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[22:00:00] <tjb1> pfred1: http://www.buildlog.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/hadron_01.jpg
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[22:01:18] <JT-Shop> anyone take a magnetic chuck apart? I'm considering taking a look at the release lever on this one as it is loose...
[22:01:43] <pfred1> JT-Shop isn't it a switch?
[22:01:54] <JT-Shop> mechanical
[22:02:00] <pfred1> oh been a while
[22:02:43] <pfred1> I kind of remember them not being very tight though
[22:03:03] <jdh> I've heard disassmbling makes them lose their magnetism, but no real clue.
[22:03:10] <JT-Shop> http://www.guangdar.com.tw/upload/en_upload/pro/pros/20101129438.jpg
[22:03:21] <pfred1> if it works I wouldn't mess with it
[22:03:29] <andypugh> I have heard the same
[22:04:24] <Jymmm> http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/abrasive-machining/magnetic-chuck-repairs-201022/
[22:04:32] <pfred1> tjb1 this is different
[22:05:59] <Jymmm> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9dqq0qfbGQ
[22:06:22] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9dqq0qfbGQ
[22:06:59] <tjb1> pfred1: ? Thats the one I am making
[22:07:09] <pfred1> tjb1 yes
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[22:08:05] <pfred1> tjb1 can your IRC client get messages?
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[22:14:04] <ds3> anyone looked into those cheap pantilt heads webcams as a 4th and 5th axis?
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[22:45:15] <mevon> andypugh, ty I changed the FERROR and the MIN_FERROR and I dont get the faults no more, but for some reason, nothing gets send... like the cmd is not changed, but the ui axis is moving.. but then again the position shown remains 0.00 all the time
[22:46:23] <andypugh> Press #
[22:47:17] <andypugh> But I think that means that the Arduino just isn't sending position feedback
[22:54:02] <Jymmm> Ok! The traditional Thanksgiving Roast is on the BBQ!!!
[22:55:06] <pfred1> Jymmm sacrilege unless you're deep frying it!
[22:55:25] <Jymmm> Yeah, right.... NOT!
[22:56:08] <pfred1> Jymmm weaved bacon all over it?
[22:56:24] <Jymmm> We eat what we like, not what some market company dictates
[22:56:32] <Jymmm> pfred1: no need
[22:56:41] <pfred1> http://www.crossfitdenver.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/bacon-turkey.jpg
[22:57:04] <Jymmm> lol
[22:58:09] <pfred1> the pilgrims and indians wouldn't have known how to act with that on the sideboard
[22:58:16] <Jymmm> Self-Baconing!
[22:59:30] <pfred1> I phoned Denny's but they told me they're not taking reservations at this time ...
[22:59:51] <Jymmm> You're going to Denny's for thaksgiving?
[22:59:57] <pfred1> I don't know
[23:00:12] <pfred1> might just have a cheese sandwich
[23:00:15] <Jymmm> Solo?
[23:00:23] <pfred1> yeah
[23:00:55] <Jymmm> Well, that sucks.
[23:00:59] <pfred1> ah
[23:01:30] <Jymmm> pfred1: Head over to JT's, he should have enough to feed a small army
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[23:01:38] <pfred1> none of my ancestors were pilgrims or indians as far as I know
[23:01:40] <Jymmm> pfred1: and he has toys too!
[23:03:10] <pfred1> yeah but is he serving a bacon turkey?
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[23:09:46] <JT-Shop> we are just doing a roasting chicken in the Big Easy
[23:13:38] <tjb1> it kills me what people in the reprap channel say
[23:16:07] <tjb1> What can I get to make my printer better…"tjb1: A printer that isnt made with other printed parts."
[23:16:41] <mevon> tjb1, my cnc is made out of printer parts and it rocks
[23:17:05] <tjb1> Whatever floats your boat ;)
[23:17:05] <mevon> sry printed parts
[23:17:37] <mevon> its crazy what one can acheive with openscad
[23:17:54] <tjb1> I would never use anything printed on these repraps on a machine made to hold tolerance
[23:19:53] <andypugh> How was the first lathe made?
[23:20:04] <andypugh> A machine can make other machines better than itself.
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[23:21:01] <tjb1> andypugh: I wont be doing it.
[23:21:42] <pfred1> andypugh no one knows how the first lathe was made
[23:21:52] <tjb1> There are design options to get around using printed parts
[23:22:02] <tjb1> https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-DAFMPq1B48s/Tpk3UZ3EWhI/AAAAAAAADRw/Nsb2FL_kns8/s800/IMGP3204.JPG
[23:22:20] <pfred1> andypugh we don't even know who made the first threading lathe today let alone how he did it
[23:22:27] <tjb1> Instead of making that printer a triangle they could of made it a square and used fitting direct from Misumi for a much better machine
[23:22:46] <pfred1> maudsley is given credit but supposedly some frenchman did it before him
[23:23:01] <tjb1> The size of extrusion that uses is cheap and would of cost maybe $40 more for the extra and the fittings that size also are cheap
[23:23:41] <andypugh> No, I am sure it was Maudsley. Mainly because he wasn't French.
[23:23:48] <pfred1> tjb1 they're waving a hot glue gun around what do you think a better machine will accomplish?
[23:23:59] <tjb1> Well the BOM proved my point…16" long pieces are $2.40
[23:24:15] <pfred1> andypugh ever seen his lathe?
[23:24:28] <pfred1> it is ah different
[23:24:34] <tjb1> pfred1: if they took some time to make a good machine, they could print some nice things and not spend months setting it up
[23:24:42] <andypugh> Not in the metal, I have seen pictures.
[23:24:52] <pfred1> yeah I've only seen pictures myself
[23:24:54] <tjb1> They wouldnt need to use all these softwares to level the bed :P
[23:25:15] <pfred1> andypugh I'm into all of that dawn of technology stuff it fascinates me
[23:25:49] <tjb1> Half of those repraps uses extruders made out of plastic with plastic gears and a bolt with knurling on it
[23:25:57] <pfred1> heh
[23:26:20] <pfred1> they should recite the I have a dream speech before they fire them puppies up
[23:26:40] <tjb1> no guarantee they are even extruding what they think they are just using a knurled bolt
[23:28:12] <pfred1> plastic has its place but it isn't my favorite material
[23:28:33] <pfred1> I've actually had a lot of plastic stuff break on me over the years if I think about it
[23:28:58] <pfred1> and when it does I invariably say you know if this wasn't made out of plastic it probably wouldn't have broke like it did
[23:28:58] <tjb1> This is the extruder I will be using - http://store.qu-bd.com/product.php?id_product=11
[23:29:36] <tjb1> and this is what drives the filament - http://www.qu-bd.com/images/mbeassembly/P1110994.jpg
[23:29:48] <tjb1> no plastic gears…no backlash, no wear
[23:30:01] <tjb1> and no knurling to slip :)
[23:31:17] <pfred1> man i love urxvt
[23:31:48] <tjb1> https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/000/018/363/b41fb856079d086d68b01f750ca17a33_large.jpg?1338952894
[23:31:49] <pfred1> tjb1 the whole thing is only $34?
[23:31:51] <tjb1> No slipping :)
[23:31:55] <tjb1> yes
[23:32:11] <pfred1> why the heck to people screw around with fiddly garbage then?
[23:32:27] <pfred1> this thing does look pretty solid
[23:32:35] <tjb1> http://store.3d-bots.com/products/wades-extruder-full-kit
[23:32:45] <tjb1> Thats what most seem to use…"Wades Extruder"
[23:32:48] <tjb1> which is $80
[23:32:55] <tjb1> and about 40 extra pieces
[23:33:24] <pfred1> Wade is doing well for himself
[23:33:26] <tjb1> And that doesnt include the hot end either! wow
[23:33:34] <pfred1> I wonder if he eats his own dog food though?
[23:33:55] <pfred1> his kit looks 3D printed to me
[23:34:10] <tjb1> http://store.3d-bots.com/sites/default/files/products/hobbedbolt.jpg
[23:34:16] <tjb1> Thats what it uses to drive the filament
[23:34:38] <pfred1> that looks pretty rough
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[23:35:01] <tjb1> I swear 90% of the reprap community are idiots
[23:35:19] <tjb1> $80 for just a few gears, motor, and a bolt or $34 for everything including the hot end...
[23:35:23] <pfred1> tjb1 from what I've seen you might be too generous
[23:37:28] <andypugh> MBE is $78 assembled with motor and heater cartridge
[23:37:50] <pfred1> MBE?
[23:38:05] <andypugh> That one tjb linked to
[23:38:16] <pfred1> oh I thought $34 was complete
[23:38:36] <pfred1> hey $78 still cheaper than $80 and it looks a lot more solid
[23:38:45] <andypugh> No, needs a motor. And the $34 price is a kit with a power resistor as the heater.
[23:39:13] <pfred1> electric heating elements are often resistive components
[23:39:13] <andypugh> I think most reprappers are fairly young and not grounded in manufacturing.
[23:39:26] <andypugh> Which is not quite the same as being idiots
[23:39:30] <tjb1> Where did you get $78?
[23:39:31] <JT-Shop> I tend to agree
[23:39:33] <pfred1> I've gotten some power resistors pretty hot too
[23:39:40] <tjb1> $14.50 for the stepper
[23:39:52] <tjb1> and $34.50 for the kit
[23:39:53] <pfred1> like certainly melt hot glue hot
[23:40:09] <tjb1> $49 for everything and a monkey could put that one together
[23:40:18] <pfred1> heck a stepper motor can get pretty hot
[23:40:23] <andypugh> I found that the maker fayre I went to. I could actually have given half the talks I went to :-)
[23:40:44] <pfred1> andypugh you are our resident super shedder
[23:41:09] <tjb1> Anyone ever painted the inside of a fireplace?
[23:41:12] <JT-Shop> so a 5i20 and a couple of 7i29's could drive my DC servos on the BP?
[23:41:37] <pfred1> tjb1 it sounds uncomfortable
[23:42:07] <tjb1> uncomfortable?
[23:42:20] <pfred1> how big is this fireplace?
[23:42:36] <tjb1> Just the area you can see, it was once a real fire place so it looks pretty bad…now home to an insert
[23:42:52] <tjb1> High temp bbq paint?
[23:43:03] <pfred1> are you going to use it again?
[23:43:13] <tjb1> It has propane logs in it
[23:43:45] <pfred1> if it was me I'd paint a bbq wit hthe paint first and fire it up outside just to check for unpleasant fumes
[23:43:59] <tjb1> JT-Shop: What were you cutting in that video
[23:44:07] <JT-Shop> slats
[23:44:16] <pfred1> to be forewarned you know?
[23:44:57] <tjb1> Yeah, I don't think it will be a problem. The flames don't touch any of the bricks inside and they aren't getting that hot.
[23:45:14] <pfred1> can't just clean it huh?
[23:45:27] <tjb1> They are yellow bricks
[23:45:34] <andypugh> JT-Shop: As far as I know there are no problems with the 7i29 if you have brushed servos
[23:45:34] <pfred1> oh don't like yellow?
[23:45:39] <tjb1> no
[23:45:47] <JT-Shop> aye, thanks
[23:45:53] <pfred1> perhaps another refractory material?
[23:46:11] <tjb1> Im not a fan of laying tile or brick :)
[23:46:13] <pfred1> yellow is popular with firebricks though
[23:46:35] <tjb1> JT-Shop: You can cut the slots with an 1/8" 14-15" abrasive saw
[23:46:38] <pfred1> I believe i know exactly what you are talking about
[23:46:58] <pfred1> terra cotta I believe it is called
[23:47:04] <andypugh> Build a road.
[23:48:09] <tjb1> pfred1: This is what is now in there http://www.lowes.com/pd_112970-51507-CRHEB24RT_0__?productId=3817805&Ntt=center+ridge+logs&pl=1&currentURL=%3FNtt%3Dcenter%2Bridge%2Blogs&facetInfo=
[23:48:43] <pfred1> tjb1 why is there a stump in the middle of the fire?
[23:48:56] <tjb1> a stump?
[23:48:59] <pfred1> looks like something clearned from landscaping
[23:49:13] <pfred1> the log right in the middle looks like a bush stump t ome
[23:49:27] <tjb1> Doesnt look like that in real life unless I put it together wrong
[23:49:36] <tjb1> The directions were not translated very good :P
[23:49:43] <pfred1> chinglish?
[23:50:07] <pfred1> my milling machine instruction manual I almost wet myself it is so funny
[23:50:08] <tjb1> Not sure if it was foreign and translated or just not proofread
[23:50:42] <mevon> yay I got it!
[23:51:03] <pfred1> mevon your arduino?
[23:51:09] <mevon> yes
[23:51:21] <pfred1> so it works now?
[23:51:23] <mevon> works with pos feedback
[23:51:42] <mevon> now if I could tweak the speeds :P
[23:51:59] <andypugh> pfred1: A friend ended up adding a "flame shouter" to the spares req for an engine he was working on just to see what the heck it was.
[23:52:03] <mevon> I only have one speed which is to the max
[23:52:05] <pfred1> you're running it off USB?
[23:52:10] <tjb1> JT-Shop: What exactly is happening in "Brake Test"
[23:52:18] <mevon> pfred1, yes
[23:52:32] <pfred1> andypugh yeah I'd like to see a flame shouter myself
[23:52:38] <mevon> now to double check the switches
[23:52:42] <mevon> homings
[23:52:45] <tjb1> mevon, can you give it g-code through an sd-card?
[23:52:49] <mevon> add accel and speed
[23:52:49] <pfred1> I've built a few cars that have done that
[23:52:50] <JT-Shop> it is an automated machine that releases the brake clip then tests the electrical connections, switches and the time to stop
[23:53:01] <mevon> tjb1, no it needs emc2
[23:53:10] <mevon> linuxcnc
[23:53:23] <tjb1> JT-Shop: Testing the motors response
[23:53:31] <JT-Shop> ?
[23:53:32] <mevon> it acts like 3 servo actuators
[23:53:34] <pfred1> andypugh I put an MSD spark box int oone car and my buddy Bernie he was like g oto the back of the car you have to see this
[23:53:58] <pfred1> andypugh so I go back there he hits the gas and these little blue flame come shooting out of the exhaust pipes
[23:54:11] <tjb1> JT-Shop: That a machine made to test the motors
[23:54:23] <pfred1> we named that car the batmobile
[23:54:27] <JT-Shop> test the brake not the motor
[23:55:11] <andypugh> These Flame Shouters were internal engine parts of a marine diesel.
[23:55:14] <JT-Shop> it is in the last station of the run tunnel where they is installed
[23:55:21] <tjb1> Ah ok
[23:55:29] <JT-Shop> is are
[23:55:32] <pfred1> andypugh were they injectors?
[23:55:38] <tjb1> Have you done any work with the taper on plasma?
[23:55:54] <JT-Shop> me?
[23:56:02] <tjb1> yes
[23:56:12] <andypugh> We think they were Lanova Air Chambers, actually
[23:56:16] <JT-Shop> like 5 axis?
[23:56:55] * JT-Shop wanders inside now
[23:57:30] <pfred1> andypugh honestly I'd buy flame shouters before stuff called Lanova Air Chambers
[23:58:27] <andypugh> They are probably out of stock because everyone orders a set. :-)