#linuxcnc | Logs for 2012-11-10

[00:07:19] -!- archivist [archivist!~archivist@host81-149-189-98.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has joined #linuxcnc
[00:10:20] <gmouer> has bldc been finalized for running red cap motors? Have a friend that wants to retrofit a mill with red cap motors
[00:11:36] -!- logger[mah] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[00:11:48] -!- logger[mah] [logger[mah]!~loggermah@ns1.mah.priv.at] has joined #linuxcnc
[00:12:01] <gmouer> searching around, it looked like running red cap motors under linuxcnc was still experimental, couldn't find a machine retro completed
[00:12:03] -!- Valen [Valen!~Valen@c122-108-45-139.blktn6.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #linuxcnc
[00:13:30] <andypugh> gmouer: As far as I know, nobody has done it yet.
[00:13:34] -!- servos4ever has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.85 [SeaMonkey 2.0.11/20101206162726]]
[00:13:42] <gmouer> thats what I was afraid of
[00:14:00] <andypugh> It _ought_ to work. If it doesn't work, then I will make it work.
[00:14:27] -!- skunkworks [skunkworks!~chatzilla@str-broadband-ccmts-ws-26.dsl.airstreamcomm.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[00:14:33] <andypugh> (Even if I have to buy a motor to test with)
[00:15:44] <gmouer> wow, sounds like you really want to see it up and running
[00:16:04] <gmouer> I seen a youtube video of a red cap running but it had no holding torque
[00:17:20] <andypugh> Any idea what drive they were using? And what drive does your friend intend to use?
[00:18:20] <gmouer> my friend hates fanuc controls and drives, which new drive is not determined, we do not know the choices the guy on youtube used a amc drive
[00:18:38] <andypugh> I am pretty confident that I can make one work with a 7i39 or 8i20. Other drives might be harder to drive. (I am actually more worried about the drive than the motor)
[00:19:29] <andypugh> I don't really like the idea of straight conversion Fanuc Gray-code to Hall sensor, that trying to divide 16 by 6.
[00:19:45] <gmouer> give me one sec, I will find a link for the youtube video
[00:20:58] -!- JesusAlos- has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
[00:22:11] <gmouer> here it is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-MNy6-QanI
[00:22:58] <gmouer> my friend actually has some amc bldc drives onhand
[00:23:43] <andypugh> Ah, yes, I have seen that. I have had quite a lot of discussion with jsheerin. He doesn't lack ambition, he wants to make a hydrostatic bearing 5-axis machine.
[00:24:20] <gmouer> sounds like he is a very brave soul
[00:25:01] <andypugh> Actually, once the component has seen a Gray-code edge it should be able to commutate well on the incremental encoder.
[00:25:13] <gmouer> my friend has two VMC mills in fantastic condition with bad fanuc controls, he would love to retro them to emc but the motors/drives are the stumbling point
[00:26:08] <andypugh> He has no holding torque because he has no posittion loop PID.
[00:26:24] <gmouer> unfortunately, I am a near idiot on fanuc red cap motors and ac servos in general, but I have been reading
[00:26:56] <gmouer> I wondered about that, if he had a position pid loop, but doubted it was that simple
[00:27:28] <andypugh> He is driving the motor just as a motor, under current control.
[00:28:10] <gmouer> ok, that I understand, and the missing position control loop
[00:28:35] <gmouer> so it would work in the form in the video with a position loop added?
[00:28:48] <andypugh> I reckon so.
[00:29:14] <andypugh> Do you know what power/voltage your friends motors are?
[00:29:17] <gmouer> I am amazed nobody has done it
[00:29:35] <L84Supper> what unique about the fanuc red cap motors?
[00:29:53] <gmouer> I have the motor info on my hard drive if I look around a bit, I recall about 140V and about 13 amps
[00:29:57] <andypugh> 4-channel absolute feedback
[00:30:12] <andypugh> 8i20 can do that then.
[00:31:03] <gmouer> what about amc drives, he has some 25a peak, 200v bldc drives on hand
[00:31:33] <gmouer> I think they are the same family as the one in the video, and they are free
[00:31:41] <andypugh> Yeah, worth a try.
[00:31:56] <L84Supper> gmouer: have any spares? :)
[00:32:11] <andypugh> It ought to work. I could advise better with motor and drive specs
[00:32:23] -!- the_wench [the_wench!~the_wench@host81-149-189-98.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has joined #linuxcnc
[00:32:31] <gmouer> LOL I want some of those drives too!!! He got 8 of them for $8 each from a machine at the scrap yard !
[00:33:07] <gmouer> you helped a lot andy, let me talk to him and dig up some info on the motors/encoders/drives
[00:33:16] <andypugh> I just emailed jsheerin to see if he reckons it's a working thing.
[00:33:49] <gmouer> thanks andy! I was wondering what his progress was
[00:34:42] <gmouer> My friend has some misc red cap motors that could be used to experiment with
[00:35:30] <andypugh> Bear in mind that all that stuff in the jsheerin videos is being done with the parport.
[00:36:12] <andypugh> I wouldn't really suggest that way as the ideal method.
[00:37:03] <gmouer> I wouldn't think a parport would have enough bandwith for a actual machine, mesa boards would be what we would use
[00:37:55] <andypugh> Yes, indeed. Just saying that that is at least part of the problem, I suspect.
[00:38:42] <L84Supper> http://www.dumpstercnc.com/images/1_2-8_2_Start_ACME.jpg looks like just compensation for radial load wear
[00:38:51] <Valen> mesa really need an online ordering system ;->
[00:38:52] <gmouer> this is all good news, some bench tests with a spare motor and drive would be the first step
[00:38:53] <andypugh> I think he was losing encoder counts.
[00:39:15] <Valen> also how hard do you think making air bearings would be?
[00:39:26] <andypugh> Valen: I don't know why they don't just have a few boards on eBay / Amazon
[00:39:30] <gmouer> yea, those fanuc encoders are pretty high res usually and he was spinning 2-3K rpm as I recall
[00:39:31] <L84Supper> Valen: what type?
[00:39:57] <Valen> phone sec
[00:40:18] <L84Supper> Valen: we use them in really wide printers to float the carriage
[00:41:41] <andypugh> Air bearings are surprisingly easy
[00:41:59] <L84Supper> http://www.dumpstercnc.com/images/1_2-10_ACME.jpg unless they change the pitch slightly near the ends
[00:42:22] <Valen> i was thinking that they didn't seem too hard
[00:42:27] <L84Supper> hovercraft?
[00:42:32] <Valen> I wonder how they would go on something like a ballscrew
[00:43:28] <Valen> in place of a ballnut
[00:44:09] <L84Supper> I'd like to see the 3d model of that :)
[00:44:43] <andypugh> They used them at a company I worked for rather cleverly. A block on flexural supports was biased by the supports against the backplate. Apply air and it became free to float (and could be touched down on the surface of an IC die) then release the air pressure and it clamped against the backplate, back off a few um, and then whack the track.
[00:45:08] <Valen> one of the people who was here doing big things worked at an air bearing place, they made it out of porous graphite which got me thinking
[00:45:45] <Valen> if you just milled out a screw shape and added air ;->
[00:45:46] <L84Supper> if you can get enough air flow
[00:46:00] <andypugh> One good application would be on a cheap rotary table. Clamp it tight with belleville washers, push it off the seat with air pressure. Release air pressure for machining.
[00:46:09] <Valen> mainly I was looking at spindles
[00:46:39] <L84Supper> porous powdered metal
[00:46:49] <L84Supper> we use them for filters
[00:47:10] <Valen> andypugh: thats a nice one
[00:47:23] <andypugh> gmouer: Jsheerin says "Err, maybe. I never got it fully working, but that was due to me using the parallel port and it not being able to read the encoder fast enough, and I never got to full rpm, I believe we decided.
[00:47:24] <andypugh> Just fyi, I was distracted all spring and summer by motorcycle repair / fabrication and then cylinder head rebuilding in my car. Finished all that and then promptly got a new job and moved across the country. I do plan to get back to it eventually and do appreciate all your work. It just probably won't be for a while, as all my stuff is currently in storage in a warehouse somewhere... If this guy gets a system runnin
[00:47:24] <Valen> though you would need to watch for radial motion during that still
[00:47:24] <andypugh> definitely let me know. I would be very interested, especially in any bugs he has to sort out along the way."
[00:48:40] <L84Supper> out to lunch
[00:49:15] <gmouer> ok andy, I will talk with him now that I got some more info, he has been all fired up to retro those mills to linuxcnc
[00:49:49] <gmouer> I am hunting my old emails now, I know I have the motor/encoder info stashed away
[00:50:34] <andypugh> Worst-case, he could ship me a motor and drive to beat into submission.
[00:50:34] -!- rob_h has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
[00:50:56] <gmouer> that is possible also
[00:51:37] <gmouer> it seems the heavy work is already in place for the red caps
[00:52:37] -!- kmiyashiro has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
[00:55:10] <andypugh> I don't see any reason for it not to work, as long as the motors are 4-channels of position + quadrature encoder output. Some have different absolute / serial / SSi schemes. We can't currently deal with those. (which is not to say that it is impossible, just not done)
[00:55:50] <gmouer> I think I can find motor encoder numbers, looking now
[00:56:24] * JT-Shop needs to make a DB25 cord grip
[00:57:34] <andypugh> Bit of tin, drill of your choice and a block of soft wood. Squish the drill shank through the metal into the wood in the vice. Bodge of a moment.
[00:58:24] <andypugh> vice - wood - metal strip - drill bit - vice …. Squeeze
[00:58:37] <JT-Shop> Bodge?
[00:58:44] <archivist> kludge
[00:58:49] <JT-Shop> ah ok
[00:58:57] * archivist is a translator :)
[00:59:01] <andypugh> Well, it's hardly the epitome of craftsmanship
[00:59:07] <JT-Shop> I was thinking of some uhmw things
[00:59:13] <gmouer> AHHA found motor info! x and y motors are Model 5S A06B-0314-B002#7000
[00:59:13] <gmouer> C89YC2412
[00:59:13] <gmouer> 3 phase 8 pole 2000 RPM 126Volts 5.8AMP
[00:59:24] <JT-Shop> with screws and straps and stuff
[00:59:48] * JT-Shop does know a small bit of English
[01:00:11] <archivist> I would just get a db25 whatever from my stock :)
[01:00:39] <JT-Shop> I need to pass the cable from the 5i25 through the panel to the 7i77
[01:00:39] <Valen> nice motors
[01:01:20] <andypugh> I have used the name "Bodgesoc Industries" for decades now. When I was a student all the clubs were foo-soc. Dramsoc, Artsoc, Physoc, Bridgesoc, Swimsoc. I was Bodgesoc.
[01:01:51] <Valen> I'm planning on getting the 170 odd volt 20A mesa drivers, anybody know of motors that suit it?
[01:02:30] <andypugh> Valen: Try the 5S A06B from Fanuc :-)
[01:02:38] * Valen slaps andypugh ;-P
[01:02:44] <gmouer> andy, did you see the motor info I posted?
[01:02:54] <JT-Shop> dang I still get the 7i77 errors on the BP
[01:03:24] <andypugh> gmouer: Posted here, or somewhere else?
[01:03:30] <gmouer> JT, I wrestled with the 7i77 but the battle ended up wond nicely
[01:03:40] <gmouer> Here Andy, I will do it again
[01:03:47] <gmouer> Model 5S A06B-0314-B002#7000
[01:03:47] <gmouer> C89YC2412
[01:03:47] <gmouer> 3 phase 8 pole 2000 RPM 126Volts 5.8AMP
[01:03:48] <JT-Shop> wond?
[01:04:16] <gmouer> those are the x and y motors, the z is bigger
[01:04:24] <andypugh> I saw that, it doesn't tell me much. Connector pinout is what I need.
[01:04:40] <PCW> JT-Shop: same errors?
[01:04:54] <gmouer> I have a pdf with machine schematics that give the pinouts and a block diagram
[01:05:03] -!- Nick001-Shop has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[01:05:10] <JT-Shop> Peter yes http://imagebin.org/235290
[01:05:53] <JT-Shop> I was finding the Y0 on the vise with the edge finder and they popped up
[01:06:22] <andypugh> Valen: Err, maybe. I never got it fully working, but that was due to me using the parallel port and it not being able to read the encoder fast enough, and I never got to full rpm, I believe we decided.
[01:06:22] <andypugh> Just fyi, I was distracted all spring and summer by motorcycle repair / fabrication and then cylinder head rebuilding in my car. Finished all that and then promptly got a new job and moved across the country. I do plan to get back to it eventually and do appreciate all your work. It just probably won't be for a while, as all my stuff is currently in storage in a warehouse somewhere... If this guy gets a system runnin
[01:06:23] <andypugh> definitely let me know. I would be very interested, especially in any bugs he has to sort out along the way.
[01:06:33] <andypugh> Ok. that went wrong.
[01:07:00] <andypugh> I meant: Valen: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/270636075794
[01:07:38] <PCW> were there some other errors before that? (you should ever just see a channel not running error)
[01:08:10] <PCW> should never
[01:08:43] <andypugh> Valen: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/NEW-YASKAWA-SGM-02A312-AC-SERVO-MOTOR-SGM02A312-/350494789138?pt=BI_Control_Systems_PLCs&hash=item519b1e0e12&_uhb=1#ht_500wt_1180 Looks nice, pity he sold the other two. You would need to research the spec.
[01:09:33] <andypugh> JT-Shop: Read and Write threads in the wrong order can do that
[01:09:38] <PCW> Oh I see (didn't scroll down enough)
[01:10:00] <JT-Shop> let me check them
[01:12:53] <PCW> Still looks like a ground loop
[01:12:55] <PCW> Is the 5I25 bracket grounded?
[01:13:08] <andypugh> Ah, sorry Valen, I just realised that searching ebay.au wasn't finding motors _in_ au.
[01:13:40] <JT-Shop> PCW: the 5i25 is installed in the computer case
[01:13:59] <PCW> OK
[01:14:51] <PCW> Is PC power from same source as mill?
[01:15:26] <JT-Shop> http://pastebin.com/xSh4FCG6
[01:15:28] <JT-Shop> yes
[01:16:10] <PCW> Pretty sure this is an electrical noise issue, not thread related
[01:17:27] -!- gmouer has quit []
[01:19:23] <andypugh> Valen: If you are still there, I suggest an advanced search, and choose Thailand as the country to search. I don't know why, but it is a hotbed of automation sales. Here is one I did earlier: http://tinyurl.com/ctr6pse
[01:20:52] <PCW> Do you still have to 100 Ohm resistors in the analog GND connection to the drives?
[01:21:05] -!- sumpfralle1 [sumpfralle1!~lars@c.mail.systemausfall.org] has joined #linuxcnc
[01:21:34] <andypugh> Valen: How much to ship these to .au? They look rather nice: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/290581906599
[01:24:13] -!- sumpfralle has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
[01:26:54] -!- ybon has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
[01:31:18] -!- sumpfralle [sumpfralle!~lars@31-16-107-207-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #linuxcnc
[01:31:39] <Valen> andypugh: the drives are DC
[01:31:54] <Valen> the AC ones are more spendy and less ampy i believe?
[01:32:31] <Valen> I am looking at the kelig 19A 60V ones
[01:32:40] <andypugh> Ah, you are tallking 7i29 not 8i20?
[01:32:57] <Valen> yeah
[01:33:31] <Valen> 8i20 is $240 7i29 is $300 for 2 axies
[01:34:34] <Valen> heh I'm going to need a bigass transformer to run 2x 7i29s lol
[01:34:48] <Valen> be nice to be in a 110V country and just bridge rectify mains lol
[01:34:58] -!- sumpfralle1 has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
[01:35:21] <andypugh> I bridge-rectify mains and the 8i20 is happy.
[01:36:04] <Valen> $960 vs $600 + a psu
[01:36:13] <andypugh> You might make back the difference on PSU
[01:36:33] <Valen> i dunno, the psu can be somewhat undersized
[01:36:35] <andypugh> And brushes are so Victorian
[01:36:42] <Valen> I was just going to get a torroid
[01:36:51] <Valen> lol you and your hatement of carbon ;-p
[01:37:10] <Valen> I'll wager dc motors are cheaper too
[01:37:21] <Valen> the kelig ones are like $60 new
[01:37:21] <PCW> Brush motor are still the quickest
[01:37:30] <Valen> quickest?
[01:37:39] <PCW> (ironless)
[01:37:50] -!- sumpfralle has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
[01:37:54] <Valen> pcw ordering internationally is a pain in the butt from mesa, you know that right? ;-P
[01:37:57] <andypugh> I love carbon, in its place. Its place is bicycle frames and motorcycle fairings.
[01:39:53] <Valen> is it ok to fax CC info outside business hours?
[01:40:27] <PCW> I would not
[01:40:38] <andypugh> At work we have soot sensors in the exhaust. We try to stay below 2 FSN, 4FSN is right out. When the sensor is mid-measure the logging system reads 1000000000 FSN. (which is really annoying when we have a limit set, why not a similar negative number?). Anyway, I assume that a billion smokes would be a column of solid graphite out the exhaust. Which is a mental image I quite like.
[01:41:15] <PCW> (janitors)
[01:41:37] <andypugh> PCW: Seriously, why not put a couple of each popular board up on eBay on a Buy-it-now?
[01:42:35] <PCW> We have a store coming fairly soon
[01:42:45] <Valen> the problem I have is i'm about 14 hours ahead, so your business hours are my sleeping hours
[01:43:28] <andypugh> Talking of sleep, I have to be up in 5 hours to go mountain-biking. Goodnight all.
[01:43:43] <PCW> JT-Shop: still around?
[01:43:44] <PCW> bye Andy
[01:44:11] <Valen> thanks for the ideas andypugh
[01:44:17] -!- andypugh has quit [Quit: andypugh]
[01:45:27] <Valen> ok so midnight on tuesday I shall send through an order lol
[01:47:20] <PCW> you could do it any weekday evening just not Friday
[01:47:52] <Valen> http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meetingtime.html?day=12&month=11&year=2012&p1=240&p2=212&iv=0
[01:49:45] <Valen> nb i'm not a morning person lol
[01:50:40] <PCW> bbl
[01:51:50] -!- PCW has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 16.0.2/20121024073032]]
[01:53:06] <JT-Shop> pcw yes for a bit
[01:53:53] * JT-Shop heads inside now
[02:07:41] -!- tronwizard has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
[02:12:16] <r00t4rd3d> http://i.imgur.com/iTAx5.jpg
[02:12:22] <r00t4rd3d> id do it
[02:28:34] -!- elmo40 [elmo40!~Elmo40@] has joined #linuxcnc
[02:40:58] -!- elmo40 has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
[02:43:32] -!- AndroUser has quit [Quit: AndroIRC - Android IRC Client ( http://www.androirc.com )]
[02:49:37] -!- paideia has quit [Quit: Leaving]
[03:10:12] -!- lwizardl [lwizardl!~lwizardl@c-68-62-80-172.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[03:12:27] -!- Valen has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
[03:15:38] -!- tjb1 [tjb1!~tjb1@110.sub-174-255-51.myvzw.com] has joined #linuxcnc
[03:17:13] <tjb1> Any comments http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/550064_4571154312879_2086822260_n.jpg
[03:17:36] <r00t4rd3d> gay
[03:17:38] <r00t4rd3d> :D
[03:18:07] <ReadError> whats the reason for the curves ?
[03:18:36] <r00t4rd3d> yeah i was wondering the same
[03:18:41] <tjb1> straight line cuts dont ruin a whole slat
[03:18:42] -!- tronwizard [tronwizard!~tronwizar@] has joined #linuxcnc
[03:18:43] <r00t4rd3d> water flow or something
[03:18:45] <toastydeath> if i had to guess it's a plasma cutter, and he's trying to avoid ruining a line
[03:18:54] <toastydeath> yeeee
[03:19:15] <toastydeath> i feel so baller when I guess things related to manufacturing
[03:19:32] <tjb1> but i typed the answer before you did :P
[03:19:38] <toastydeath> i know but i was typing
[03:20:25] <lwizardl> nice looking
[03:20:59] <tjb1> hey r00t4rd3d how are those alum side plates?
[03:21:49] <lwizardl> I was wondering how much would building a cnc machine for 8x4 sheets cost?
[03:22:23] <tjb1> plamsa?
[03:23:00] <lwizardl> tjb1, if that was for me, no I was looking at just a standard router type
[03:23:39] <tjb1> lwizardl: Mine will do router here soon, I have about $3100 in the table
[03:23:50] <tjb1> You can take $450 off that for the water table
[03:25:17] <lwizardl> tjb1, I was just curious because I know I will be using my mill for making arcade game cabinets randomly. and I think I would rather build 1 machine versus having like 2-3 one for each job type
[03:26:04] <tjb1> Im going to make something where I can throw a 4x8sheet of mdf on there, going to try and make it so it holds it like 1/4" above the slats but im not sure how I will support the whole thing and keep any tolerance
[03:26:52] <lwizardl> yeah kinda what i want to do
[03:27:54] <tjb1> I might buy another sheet of 12 gauge and make it mount on pins inside the water table and put the mdf on that
[03:28:16] <tjb1> maybe 14 gauge…12 is pretty heavy
[03:28:50] <toastydeath> bigass vacuum table
[03:28:58] <toastydeath> make it out of mdf and bolt it to yout table
[03:29:02] <toastydeath> *your
[03:29:10] <tjb1> That 4x8 sheet of mdf is 96#
[03:29:47] <toastydeath> where the jews are you getting your mdf
[03:29:59] <toastydeath> a 4x8 sheet of mdf at home depot is like, 17 bucks
[03:30:04] <tjb1> 96 pounds
[03:30:07] <tjb1> $34
[03:30:19] <tjb1> Its 3/4 thick also ;)
[03:30:30] <toastydeath> so?
[03:30:37] <ReadError> tjb1, you need to make this thing a convertable
[03:30:45] <ReadError> where you can have dual z axis
[03:30:48] <ReadError> for a router too ;)
[03:30:50] <toastydeath> if you have a router, you can carve out the majority of the mdf
[03:30:52] <tjb1> Oh boy, dual Z
[03:31:04] <toastydeath> and it'll still be just fine
[03:31:12] <toastydeath> then back it with 1/4" or something
[03:31:44] <tjb1> I dont need a vaccum, I just need a way to put the mdf on top of the water table where it is repeatable
[03:32:23] <tjb1> I have an idea but its gonna have to wait until the table is running again :/
[03:32:31] <toastydeath> repeatable how
[03:32:44] <toastydeath> if it's a 4x8 sheet and it's going to STAY square, all you need is three pins
[03:33:17] <toastydeath> if you're talking about making any arbitrary shape repeatable, let me know if you solve that because there's a whole industry waiting to hear from you
[03:35:24] -!- tjb1 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
[03:36:16] -!- tjb1 [tjb1!~tjb1@110.sub-174-255-51.myvzw.com] has joined #linuxcnc
[03:36:55] <tjb1> No so its held above the water table and slats since that wont always be flat, I want to put the MDF on and it be in a general location and flat so I dont have to cut the whole surface everytime
[03:38:18] <toastydeath> metal supports with fixed locations on the table that support and mdf torsion box
[03:39:17] <toastydeath> dunno man
[03:39:28] <tjb1> I would need a torsion box with a 3/4 sheet of mdf?
[03:46:37] <toastydeath> it's pretty floppy, but do whatever you want
[03:49:30] <tjb1> Ill see how many supports I can throw in there
[04:19:05] -!- asdfasd has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
[04:20:59] -!- p0staL [p0staL!postal@nizzles.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[04:24:08] <ReadError> ;)
[04:26:11] <p0staL> :)
[04:28:02] -!- Komzpa has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
[04:33:11] <tjb1> :(
[04:44:34] <tjb1> ReadError: Any updates on the quad?
[04:45:26] <ReadError> always bro
[04:45:34] <ReadError> im working on some centers right now
[04:45:45] <ReadError> p0staL is my partner in crime
[04:45:59] <p0staL> :)
[04:46:04] <p0staL> He's got me jealous of having a CNC
[04:46:08] -!- lwizardl has quit [Quit: Leaving]
[04:46:10] <ReadError> hes lookin to get a cnc router
[04:46:10] <p0staL> so, i just asked the wifey for one for my bday this month
[04:46:17] <ReadError> told him the fireball would be a good option
[04:47:00] <ReadError> tell her you need one of these p0staL http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/550064_4571154312879_2086822260_n.jpg
[04:49:52] <tjb1> That damn post down the middle is screwing me pretty good :(
[04:51:35] <ReadError> you must be pretty good at welding
[04:51:37] <ReadError> i want to learn
[04:52:01] <tjb1> Good at mig, trying to learn to use the tig we have
[04:53:32] <alpha1125> ReadError what are the rails made from?
[04:53:43] <ReadError> thats tjb1's
[04:53:46] <alpha1125> ReadError, sorry, looking at the pic… is that yours?
[04:54:33] <alpha1125> oh… tjb1 what's the rail system ? 6 bearings, rolling on the edge of a plate steel/aluminum?
[04:54:59] <tjb1> alpha1125:
[04:55:00] <tjb1> http://www.cncrouterparts.com/extended-linear-carriage-with-abec-7-bearings-p-35.html
[04:55:18] <tjb1> Those ride on 1/4x4" CRS that is bolted to 3"x3" t-slots extrusion
[04:55:23] <alpha1125> like, sandwiching the railsexactly what I thought.
[04:56:14] <alpha1125> Are they on cammed bolts, to help with adjustments?
[04:56:59] <tjb1> the bottom bearings are adjustable by set screws
[04:57:06] <tjb1> here is a bunch of pictures of my table - http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.4483033549915.2181311.1112377031&type=1&l=5c10b7f68d
[04:57:34] <p0staL> jesus
[04:57:47] <alpha1125> got any videos of this monster running?
[04:57:57] <alpha1125> I see further down.
[04:58:36] <tjb1> The videos I have are a couple weeks back before I got all the cable chains done
[04:58:46] <tjb1> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWqK9-27Siw
[04:58:52] <ReadError> tjb1, instead of having the table folded
[04:58:54] <tjb1> No water table either
[04:58:59] <ReadError> why didnt you just weld sides on?
[04:59:55] <tjb1> The water table?
[05:00:02] <ReadError> yea
[05:00:08] <tjb1> Its 113" x 66"
[05:00:10] <alpha1125> I would love to have that… wife would kill me though. lol.
[05:00:20] <alpha1125> may I ask approx how much you sunk into the setup?
[05:00:27] <tjb1> Cost a lot for the wire and argon plus have to deal with warping and keeping it water tight
[05:00:37] <tjb1> About $3100 now
[05:00:53] <tjb1> I did have to pay $137 to have that sheet bent though :/
[05:00:56] <alpha1125> hmm… a mac pro… plasma cutter rid, or a mac pro… lol
[05:01:07] <alpha1125> rig*
[05:01:25] <ReadError> simple
[05:01:30] <ReadError> build a hackintosh
[05:01:37] <ReadError> spend the rest on a plasma cutter
[05:01:58] <alpha1125> ReadError, I can't be bother with a hackintosh… not for a work computer… time is money.
[05:02:09] <tjb1> I love my mbp but it was expensive
[05:02:10] <alpha1125> for a hobby thing, sure… I would do it...
[05:02:12] <ReadError> yea except it takes like....2hrs
[05:02:24] <alpha1125> when you upgrade the OS?
[05:02:24] <ReadError> to build and install
[05:02:39] <ReadError> alpha1125, no real issues
[05:02:44] <ReadError> but before any upgrade
[05:02:49] <ReadError> i run carbon copy cloner
[05:02:49] <tjb1> This is the very first cut the table did - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhL17PuXEGw
[05:03:03] <ReadError> and i can always boot back on the last working copy easy
[05:03:24] <tjb1> Stay away from Parallels, VirtualBox, VMware, and Wine if you want to run any CAD
[05:03:30] <tjb1> Bootcamp is the only way
[05:03:38] <ReadError> tjb1, i disagree
[05:03:45] <alpha1125> hmm… what I want right now, is something I can mount to a TV… a mac mini suits the case well. Wife is open to the idea of having a TV with a mac mini… or appletv… or whatever… as long as cables aren't all over the place.
[05:03:58] <ReadError> i run solidworks in parallels exclusively
[05:04:04] <tjb1> I hated parallels
[05:04:07] <tjb1> It installs too deep
[05:04:17] <ReadError> no issues here brotha
[05:04:28] <ReadError> works good
[05:04:30] <alpha1125> i've used VB… and VMware… VMware Fusion was much faster…
[05:04:39] <alpha1125> haven't done any cad work on the mac.
[05:04:45] <ReadError> parallels smokes vmware* on OSX
[05:04:51] <ReadError> but vmware ESXI is super slick
[05:05:00] <alpha1125> I used to be a wizzard with autocad 11, 12, 14… 2000… stopped after that.
[05:05:02] <tjb1> Bootcamp is faster
[05:05:06] <tjb1> :P
[05:05:10] <ReadError> tjb1, its all specs too
[05:05:23] <alpha1125> crap, it's late… I need to go to bed.
[05:05:23] <ReadError> i have an ati 6870 and 16gb ram in my osx box
[05:05:44] <ReadError> it cranks out 3d no probs
[05:05:51] <tjb1> Mine is the nvidia gt330m with 8gb
[05:05:53] <ReadError> no lag what so ever
[05:06:07] <tjb1> best 15" mbp you could buy when I got it
[05:06:08] <ReadError> my mbp i only use at work
[05:06:10] <ReadError> 2 days a week
[05:06:10] <p0staL> fml
[05:06:17] <ReadError> but its an i7/16gb ram too
[05:06:18] <p0staL> the one part i dont' have a copy of, just broke on the 3d printer
[05:06:19] <p0staL> :P
[05:06:29] <tjb1> acetone it?
[05:06:31] <ReadError> since i run virtuals on it
[05:06:38] <tjb1> What year is yours?
[05:06:41] <ReadError> p0staL, i might be able to get you one too ;)
[05:06:45] <tjb1> Has to be pretty new to be using 16gb
[05:06:50] <ReadError> but max might be faster
[05:06:58] <ReadError> tjb1, erm like 2010
[05:07:06] <ReadError> i think
[05:07:07] <tjb1> mine is mid 2010 and maxes at 8gb
[05:07:08] <p0staL> max can print me one
[05:07:15] <ReadError> im not sure tbh
[05:07:22] * ReadError thinks
[05:07:26] <tjb1> I miss snow leopard though :(
[05:07:30] <ReadError> which part
[05:07:35] <ReadError> i havnt put lion on yet
[05:07:42] <ReadError> heard some shit doesnt work
[05:07:45] <tjb1> im on mountain lion
[05:07:47] <ReadError> mountain lion
[05:07:55] <ReadError> or w/e that new 10.7 or w/e is
[05:08:01] <ReadError> damn cats
[05:08:06] <ReadError> cant keep them straight
[05:08:11] <tjb1> mountain lion = 10.8
[05:08:17] <ReadError> yea that
[05:08:26] <ReadError> ;p
[05:08:29] <tjb1> I cant play diablo 2 anymore
[05:08:32] <tjb1> They killed it
[05:08:33] <ReadError> little snitch didnt work on it i heard
[05:08:42] <tjb1> Shhh cant talk of that here :P
[05:09:01] <ReadError> d2 is cool
[05:09:07] <ReadError> you no have 3 ?
[05:09:15] <tjb1> no
[05:09:18] <tjb1> d2 got boring
[05:09:26] <tjb1> I dont like playing the same thing over and over
[05:10:00] <tjb1> I had like 6-7 accounts just to hold everything I had and then someone hacked them and I quit
[05:15:04] <tjb1> what printers are you guys using?
[05:15:13] <tjb1> Im planning on building a hadron ord in january
[05:15:40] <ReadError> prusa2 here
[05:15:45] <ReadError> get that kit tjb1 ;p
[05:15:52] <ReadError> from that site
[05:16:07] <tjb1> what kit from what site?
[05:16:13] <tjb1> the hadron from keiling?
[05:16:17] <ReadError> that one from automated tech
[05:16:21] <ReadError> yea keiling
[05:16:23] <ReadError> they are the same place
[05:17:57] <tjb1> Thats where im getting it from
[05:19:16] <tjb1> With a qu-bd extruder…maybe the dual extruder
[05:24:20] <p0staL> halo4 time :)
[05:24:39] <tjb1> already beat it :P
[05:24:45] -!- factor has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
[05:25:26] <tjb1> You should add me, we can big team infinity slayer
[05:25:31] <tjb1> I like to plow people with ghosts
[05:26:13] <ReadError> you can play over cell connection tjb1 ?
[05:27:38] <tjb1> probably but im in school so i play on highspeed
[05:27:48] -!- dhoovie [dhoovie!~kvirc-aye@] has joined #linuxcnc
[05:31:32] <tjb1> Add me up - SgtSarcasm
[05:37:35] -!- dhoovie has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
[05:38:21] -!- mhaberler [mhaberler!~mhaberler@macbook.stiwoll.mah.priv.at] has joined #linuxcnc
[05:42:43] -!- factor [factor!~factor@r74-195-190-199.msk1cmtc01.mskgok.ok.dh.suddenlink.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[05:44:56] <tjb1> Anyone know of a cheap laptop $300-$400 that can handle solidworks
[05:45:00] <tjb1> and other programs of the sort
[06:18:55] -!- tjb1 has quit [Quit: tjb1]
[06:22:07] -!- ktchk [ktchk!~eddie6929@n219079180195.netvigator.com] has joined #linuxcnc
[06:25:58] -!- Keknom has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
[06:37:46] -!- ve7it has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[07:05:24] -!- FinboySlick has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
[07:48:54] -!- theos has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
[07:54:09] -!- DJ9DJ [DJ9DJ!~Deejay@unaffiliated/dj9dj] has joined #linuxcnc
[07:55:05] <DJ9DJ> moin
[08:00:11] -!- the_wench has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
[08:00:34] -!- archivist has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
[08:04:08] -!- theos [theos!~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #linuxcnc
[08:04:34] -!- yuvipanda has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
[08:06:54] -!- davec_ [davec_!~davec@host-174-45-229-40.bln-mt.client.bresnan.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[08:09:24] -!- factor has quit [*.net *.split]
[08:09:24] -!- racycle has quit [*.net *.split]
[08:09:24] -!- ZinovaS has quit [*.net *.split]
[08:09:25] -!- cevad has quit [*.net *.split]
[08:09:25] -!- jdh has quit [*.net *.split]
[08:11:32] -!- factor [factor!~factor@r74-195-190-199.msk1cmtc01.mskgok.ok.dh.suddenlink.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[08:11:32] -!- ZinovaS [ZinovaS!~darius@client-178-16-37-153.inturbo.lt] has joined #linuxcnc
[08:11:32] -!- jdh [jdh!~jdh@miranda.org] has joined #linuxcnc
[08:14:55] -!- archivist [archivist!~archivist@host81-149-189-98.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has joined #linuxcnc
[08:30:05] -!- the_wench [the_wench!~the_wench@host81-149-189-98.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has joined #linuxcnc
[08:30:38] -!- racycle has quit [Quit: racycle]
[08:54:56] -!- factor has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
[09:02:41] -!- mhaberler has quit [Quit: mhaberler]
[09:04:27] -!- asdfasd [asdfasd!grgrgrgrg@] has joined #linuxcnc
[09:18:58] -!- morfic has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
[09:23:22] -!- maximilian_h [maximilian_h!~bonsai@f051068209.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #linuxcnc
[09:23:36] -!- Cylly [Cylly!cylly@p54B13A9D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[09:25:18] -!- Loetmichel has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
[09:36:31] -!- maximilian_h has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
[09:41:32] -!- rob_h [rob_h!~rob_h@027c1517.bb.sky.com] has joined #linuxcnc
[09:43:17] -!- yuvipanda has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
[10:18:40] -!- ktchk [ktchk!~eddie6929@n219079180195.netvigator.com] has parted #linuxcnc
[10:31:59] -!- mhaberler [mhaberler!~mhaberler@macbook.stiwoll.mah.priv.at] has joined #linuxcnc
[11:02:05] -!- Valen [Valen!~Valen@c122-108-45-139.blktn6.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #linuxcnc
[11:10:48] -!- morfic [morfic!~morfic@unaffiliated/morfic] has joined #linuxcnc
[11:23:23] -!- Cylly has quit []
[11:35:15] -!- Loetmichel [Loetmichel!cylly@p54B13A9D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[11:36:40] <Loetmichel> mornin'
[11:46:14] -!- yuvipanda has quit [Read error: No route to host]
[11:46:14] yuvipanda_ is now known as yuvipanda
[11:46:36] -!- Brandonian has quit [Quit: Brandonian]
[11:54:21] <mrsun> direct belt drive or chain drive needs quite beefy motors to drive doesnt it? :)
[11:54:26] <mrsun> on router
[12:00:13] <archivist> mass being moved
[12:02:48] -!- yuvipanda has quit [Quit: yuvipanda]
[12:08:56] -!- sumpfralle [sumpfralle!~lars@31-16-107-207-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #linuxcnc
[12:10:10] -!- yuvipanda has quit [Quit: yuvipanda]
[12:13:26] -!- vladimirek [vladimirek!~vladimire@] has joined #linuxcnc
[12:14:52] <Valen> you can still have reductions
[12:17:37] <archivist> reductions often add backlash
[12:18:15] <archivist> Valen, did some googling today my ball slides are rexroth
[12:18:28] <Valen> the name sounds expensive by itself
[12:18:54] <archivist> good job they were close to free
[12:19:28] <archivist> http://www.boschrexroth.com/various/utilities/mediadirectory/index.jsp?pagesize=8&oid=15107&language=en-GB&objectlang=en-GB&ccat_id=61&remindCcat=1&publication=1
[12:44:50] -!- syyl_tb [syyl_tb!~syyl@ip-109-84-0-123.web.vodafone.de] has joined #linuxcnc
[12:51:40] -!- chillly has quit [Quit: Leaving]
[12:54:44] -!- Valen has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
[12:57:11] <mrsun> yeah directdrive usaly is backlash free isnt it ? but then you need heck of alot more torque then when doing it with screws
[13:05:12] -!- phantoneD [phantoneD!~destroy@a95-92-89-24.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #linuxcnc
[13:07:56] <jthornton> someone posted a link to my web site here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G-code
[13:08:06] -!- phantoxeD has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
[13:09:11] <jthornton> in the External Links at the bottom
[13:09:21] <jthornton> not sure what I think of that yet
[13:10:47] -!- pfred1 [pfred1!~pfred1@unaffiliated/pfred1] has joined #linuxcnc
[13:15:00] <archivist> happyness/pride :)
[13:16:21] <jthornton> yea
[13:16:23] -!- syyl_tb has quit [Quit: Verlassend]
[13:16:51] * pfred1 sticks archivist with the gom jabbar and tells him that, pride is the little killer ...
[13:17:15] <jthornton> I was just looking at all the web sites that have external links to my web site and a bunch of them are not legit
[13:17:26] <archivist> incoming links can also mean work
[13:17:39] <pfred1> jthornton seems legit
[13:18:11] <archivist> a proportion of my incoming are from rubbish sites
[13:18:32] <jthornton> really, how does that work out?
[13:18:39] <pfred1> I counter that by not having a web site I find it an effective defence
[13:18:42] <jthornton> pfred1, the wiki is yes
[13:19:14] <pfred1> I've had web sites in the past but now I figure why bother
[13:19:29] <archivist> getting work
[13:20:12] -!- psha [psha!~psha@] has joined #linuxcnc
[13:21:02] <pfred1> well I finished up my lead screw stop collars yesterday
[13:21:21] <pfred1> I'm happy with how all of those turned out
[13:21:51] * pfred1 could say happyness/pride even :)
[13:25:55] -!- pfred1 has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
[13:26:11] <jthornton> posted my Anilam 1100m parts on PM about 30 minutes ago and someone wants them already :)
[13:30:25] sliptonic is now known as sliptonic_away
[13:30:42] -!- yuvipanda has quit [Quit: yuvipanda]
[13:33:26] sliptonic_away is now known as sliptonic
[13:38:58] -!- factor [factor!~factor@r74-195-216-98.msk1cmtc02.mskgok.ok.dh.suddenlink.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[14:03:54] -!- phantoneD has quit []
[14:04:17] -!- phantoxeD [phantoxeD!~destroy@a95-92-89-24.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #linuxcnc
[14:09:13] -!- r00t4rd3d has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
[14:13:15] -!- r00t4rd3d [r00t4rd3d!~r00t4rd3d@cpe-67-249-21-218.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #linuxcnc
[14:13:16] -!- r00t4rd3d has quit [Changing host]
[14:13:16] -!- r00t4rd3d [r00t4rd3d!~r00t4rd3d@unaffiliated/r00t4rd3d] has joined #linuxcnc
[14:20:15] -!- skunkworks has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
[14:39:44] -!- Valen [Valen!~Valen@c122-108-45-139.blktn6.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #linuxcnc
[14:46:13] <pcw_home> jthornton: do you still have the 100 Ohm resistors in series with the analog gnd?
[14:49:22] -!- morfic has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
[14:59:31] -!- rob__H [rob__H!~rob_h@027c24fc.bb.sky.com] has joined #linuxcnc
[15:01:54] -!- joe9 [joe9!~joe9@c-24-98-99-202.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[15:01:55] -!- rob_h has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
[15:03:51] -!- Valen has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
[15:07:42] -!- mhaberler has quit [Quit: mhaberler]
[15:10:41] -!- joe9 has quit [Quit: leaving]
[15:11:52] -!- joe9 [joe9!~joe9@c-24-98-99-202.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[15:14:44] <JT-Shop> yes
[15:18:41] -!- joe9 has quit [Quit: leaving]
[15:20:25] <pcw_home> A extra character means there was about 2V developed across the parallel cable from one end to the other
[15:20:27] <pcw_home> so that pretty severe EMI. This could be from coupling to nearby cables (power cables near the parallel cable)
[15:20:29] <pcw_home> or a ground loop
[15:20:45] -!- joe9 [joe9!~joe9@c-24-98-99-202.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[15:22:47] <JT-Shop> the parallel port cable crosses the cables in the back of the PC but goes nowhere near the drives or anything else.
[15:23:50] <pcw_home> Is the PC case grounded or is it on a desk? (this would make the path to ground different than via the PC power cord)
[15:24:06] -!- joe9 has quit [Client Quit]
[15:24:19] <JT-Shop> the PC case is sitting on rubber feet on top of the electrical cabinet
[15:29:12] <Tom_itx> morning
[15:29:24] <pcw_home> Might need a line filter or big ferrite bead (run PC power cord through it a couple of times) to sort this out
[15:30:35] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Intel-DQ77KB-Thin-Mini-ITX-MB-LGA-1155-Core-i3-i5-i7-Dual-LAN-19V-BOXDQ77KB-/130765855617?pt=Motherboards&hash=item1e72409b81
[15:32:53] <pcw_home> Also on the the 7I77 (since you have an early one) can you check that S1 (marked 000) is present
[15:32:54] <pcw_home> this is a SMD resistor looking thing just to the right of W5
[15:35:51] <JT-Shop> tiny little bugger but yes it is there
[15:38:36] -!- rizo [rizo!~klemen@BSN-143-46-191.dial-up.dsl.siol.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[15:39:00] -!- joe9 [joe9!~joe9@c-24-98-99-202.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[15:39:17] <pcw_home> Doesnt fix the noise problem but an extra char error really should not be a fatal error
[15:39:19] <pcw_home> I'll look into this next week. Might be SSLBP or driver issue not sure yet
[15:40:47] <pcw_home> Or is it fatal? does the I/O still work?
[15:41:12] <JT-Shop> it still seems to work after the error
[15:41:42] <pcw_home> OK so the driver/SSLBP handle it correctly
[15:42:27] <pcw_home> Do you have a scope to look for the noise source?
[15:43:37] <JT-Shop> yes, but I'm running out of time today I can put the scope on tomorrow
[15:43:50] <JT-Shop> what do I look at the 5v?
[15:45:24] <pcw_home> plug scope into same outlet as PC
[15:45:25] <pcw_home> put scope ground lead on PC case, scope input on 7I77GND
[15:45:43] <JT-Shop> ok
[15:47:09] <pcw_home> other random things to try:
[15:47:10] <pcw_home> common mode choke on PC power cord (giant ferrite bead)
[15:47:12] <pcw_home> common mode choke on 7I77 encoder and analog signals (giant ferrite bead per cable)
[15:47:13] <pcw_home> bond PC case to equipment case _and_ bond 7I77GND to equipment case
[15:48:00] <pcw_home> bond means low inductance connection = short and wide or multiple
[15:48:15] <JT-Shop> ok
[15:50:36] <DaViruz> bond, james bond
[15:50:38] <pcw_home> random stuff like this is very often ground bumping from the PWM driving the motors (and since the PWM frequencies are not synchronized, occasionally they add together to make a bigger noise pulse)
[15:53:42] <pcw_home> but 2V or so along a cable (6 or 10 ft) with 18 GNDs and a shield is pretty severe
[16:01:04] <archivist> I have had vacuum cleaners interfere with the scsi cable between cpu and disk unit, that was cured by bonding mainly
[16:02:05] <archivist> I wondered why my backups failed at 6-7pm ...mrs mop and the cleaner
[16:02:39] <pcw_home> Yeah at high frequencies all GND is is taps on a voltage divider
[16:03:45] <archivist> it is an antenna and an inductor and a common mode resistor and... :)
[16:04:07] <pcw_home> so you make the critical segment lower drop (bonding) or the other segments higher drop (common mode choke)
[16:19:50] -!- aircraft [aircraft!~aircraft@xmpp.jrudevels.org] has joined #linuxcnc
[16:25:41] -!- Tecan [Tecan!~fasdf@unaffiliated/unit41] has joined #linuxcnc
[16:26:53] -!- skunkworks [skunkworks!~chatzilla@str-broadband-ccmts-ws-26.dsl.airstreamcomm.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[16:39:13] -!- FinboySlick [FinboySlick!~shark@squal.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[16:47:21] -!- evokanevo [evokanevo!~evokanevo@c-24-22-214-120.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[16:52:49] <evokanevo> Greetings all. I noticed that enabling the on-board network chip and having a network connection (even with minimal network usage) bumps jitter in the latency-test from about 5 microseconds to 15 microseconds. I am wondering whether the rtai patch implements network polling for network drivers, which should shrink jitter compared to a purely interrupt-driven driver.
[16:53:43] <evokanevo> If the drivers aren't patched, I will have to patch the driver myself, but I thought if someone knows, it can save me time from looking into it.
[17:04:16] <alex4nder> I'd guess the network driver for your part is just going something dumb.
[17:07:22] -!- mhaberler [mhaberler!~mhaberler@macbook.stiwoll.mah.priv.at] has joined #linuxcnc
[17:09:36] <pcw_home> Wouldn't you have to poll in the base thread for that to actually work?
[17:13:12] <evokanevo> I think how it works with polling is that the IRQ for the eth0 goes off, and a callback is scheduled to do the rest of the network-stuff. This "other stuff" can be context-switched out if the base-thread needs to run.
[17:13:53] <pcw_home> I dont think that actually helps (at least on PC hardware)
[17:14:30] <pcw_home> cant context switch out a bus master transfer
[17:14:58] -!- xeen has quit [Quit: Changing server]
[17:16:23] <evokanevo> I'm looking into how bus-mastering works now...
[17:16:30] <pcw_home> if it was scheduled at the end of the base thread then the problem goes away
[17:18:33] <evokanevo> So are these bus-transfers going to be an issue for CPU initiated transfers, or also device-initiated? I see that scheduling transfers for after the base thread would work if all transfers are CPU-initiated.
[17:19:01] <evokanevo> I don't know whether a device can initiate transfers whenever it wants. I figure that's DMA, but I don't know much about the technologies.
[17:19:19] <pcw_home> I suspect (but do not know for sure) that the block transfer which is all done in hardware on PCs is the main time sink (at least for PCI interfaced Ethernet)
[17:20:03] <pcw_home> The Ethenet chip itself usually manages ring buffers in system memory
[17:21:32] <evokanevo> Can the base-thread not run until a block-transfer finishes?
[17:23:08] -!- paideia [paideia!~paideia@host-2-103-27-207.as13285.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[17:23:10] <pcw_home> depends on the hardware (and in a real system the DMA may allow the basethread to run but it will be blocked as soon as it attempts to access hardware)
[17:24:31] <evokanevo> Okay thanks. I'm going to give the patch a shot, but at least now I have something to look into a bit more.
[17:25:22] <pcw_home> 10 usec does rather look like a 1.5K packet DMA time (PCI)
[17:25:58] <evokanevo> Maybe I could lower the MTU.
[17:26:47] <pcw_home> you might try pinging with different sized packets and see what effect that has on latency
[17:26:49] <pcw_home> to try and separate interrupt overhead and transfer latency
[17:28:01] <rizo> i would like to make my own hal module (as described in hal handbook) - it says i should place the component in /src/hal/components. But there is no such folder - should i install the developers version of emc?
[17:28:02] -!- evokanevo has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
[17:28:47] -!- evokanevo [evokanevo!~evokanevo@c-24-22-214-120.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[17:28:52] <evokanevo> Good point. I'll try that too.
[17:32:33] -!- ve7it [ve7it!~LawrenceG@S0106001c10b7770f.pk.shawcable.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[17:37:13] <archivist> would it be easier just to get a network card with its own on board memory
[17:41:22] <evokanevo> Seems like pcw_home knows a lot more about this than I do, but as I understand it, the problem is transfers to/from the ethernet chip occupy the PCI bus, which prevents other transfers on the bus requird by the base-thread. So assuming the card is also PCI-based, it will still create the latency.
[17:41:29] <JT-Shop> rizo: that is for a RIP install
[17:42:13] <JT-Shop> sudo apt-get install linuxcnc-dev
[17:42:33] <JT-Shop> then
[17:42:34] <JT-Shop> comp --install rtexample.comp
[17:42:43] <JT-Shop> opps sudo
[17:42:44] <JT-Shop> comp --install rtexample.comp
[17:42:50] <JT-Shop> sudo
[17:42:51] <JT-Shop> comp --install rtexample.comp
[17:42:53] <archivist> evokanevo, if it has its own memory not really as card to pc will be faster and not at packet speed
[17:42:58] <JT-Shop> why does it do that
[17:43:27] <JT-Shop> sudo comp --install rtexample.comp
[17:43:30] <JT-Shop> there
[17:44:53] <evokanevo> archivist - I assume that pretty much every network chip buffers the packet before writing to memory, but I haven't looked into it. 1 more thing to check.
[17:45:47] <archivist> I assume nothing with cost reductions these days
[17:49:50] -!- evokanevo has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
[17:56:20] -!- syyl [syyl!~syyl@p4FD1308F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[17:57:10] -!- IchGuckLive [IchGuckLive!~chatzilla@95-89-101-95-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #linuxcnc
[17:58:42] <IchGuckLive> hi all
[18:02:08] <pcw_home> A lot of PCI Ethernet chips have rather modest buffers (just enough to accomodate bus latencies and one pkt)
[18:02:09] <pcw_home> the DP83816 for example only has 1 packet worth with of RX and TX buffers
[18:02:11] <pcw_home> but since PCI bandwidth is about 10X 100BaseT data rate this is not a real issue
[18:07:47] -!- ybon has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
[18:10:20] <pcw_home> RTL8139 is similar: 2K RX and TX FIFOs
[18:12:42] <IchGuckLive> are you searching for a new chip to fit the rs485 needs on a 1GEnet
[18:13:47] <archivist> no, discussing latency
[18:14:48] -!- motioncontrol [motioncontrol!~io@host119-7-dynamic.20-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #linuxcnc
[18:23:09] <IchGuckLive> i moff bavarian evening in town By
[18:23:15] -!- IchGuckLive has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 16.0.2/20121025205401]]
[18:35:38] <rizo> i compiled and installed the sincos.comp component in example. I can also loadrt the sincos module and wore the signals. The problem is tahet the component dos not calculate the value. Any idea why not? It seem there is a missing ".update base-thread" addf function.
[18:36:36] <rizo> i compiled and installed the sincos.comp component example code. I can also loadrt the sincos module and wire the signals. The problem is that the component dos not calculate the value. Any idea why not? It seem there is a missing ".update base-thread" addf function.
[18:41:04] -!- Fox_M|afk [Fox_M|afk!quakeman@frnk-4d01df16.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[18:41:08] -!- arele has quit [Client Quit]
[18:46:44] <rizo> i thought the addf component.update is a default function of every component.
[18:47:32] <pcw_home> wheres the source to sincos?
[18:48:13] -!- arele has quit [Quit: dinner]
[18:49:03] <pcw_home> I though you always needed the addf in the HAL file except for exotic "comps" like motion
[18:49:23] <rizo> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/hal/comp.html#_sincos
[18:51:37] <rizo> But the .update is not the part of component, it think it should be a part of HAL.
[18:51:56] -!- Fox_M|afk has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
[18:53:12] <rizo> If i try the addf .update i get an HAL:ERROR: function 'sincos.o.update' not found
[18:53:26] <rizo> If i try the addf .update i get an HAL:ERROR: function 'sincos.0.update' not found
[18:53:50] -!- Fox_M|afk [Fox_M|afk!quakeman@frnk-4d01fd57.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[18:56:13] <pcw_home> how about addf sincos.0 servothread
[18:59:24] Fox_M|afk is now known as Fox_Muldr
[19:02:04] <pcw_home> comps with xxxx.update like encoder have functions by that name
[19:02:09] -!- motioncontrol has quit [Quit: Sto andando via]
[19:02:13] <pcw_home> sincos does not
[19:04:07] <rizo> I understand that, so i should write the .update function/procedure - how?
[19:05:09] <pcw_home> its already there is just has a null name so in the HAL file:
[19:05:11] <pcw_home> addf sincos.0 servothread
[19:05:24] <pcw_home> should be right
[19:05:41] -!- andypugh [andypugh!~andy2@cpc2-basl1-0-0-cust639.basl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #linuxcnc
[19:06:06] -!- asdfasd has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
[19:06:17] -!- sumpfralle has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
[19:07:02] <rizo> i see :) this solved my problem. Thank you very much :)
[19:08:20] <pcw_home> welcome, and it not that I really know anything other than how to look at the source for the other comps and how they are invoked in HAL
[19:10:06] <pcw_home> http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=linuxcnc.git;a=tree;f=src/hal/components;h=c592a0c058b541b29755199bd03bb6f9e655366d;hb=HEAD
[19:10:07] <pcw_home> for example
[19:13:50] <rizo> i see, thank you
[19:16:16] -!- rizo has quit [Quit: Leaving]
[19:21:19] <andypugh> Unusually functional reprap item: http://things.hands.com/thing/foetoscope/
[19:25:50] -!- asdfasd [asdfasd!grgrgrgrg@] has joined #linuxcnc
[20:10:42] -!- psha has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
[20:11:34] -!- andypugh has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
[20:12:32] -!- andypugh [andypugh!~andy2@cpc2-basl1-0-0-cust639.basl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #linuxcnc
[20:13:48] -!- andypugh has quit [Client Quit]
[20:25:40] -!- factor has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
[20:31:15] -!- emel has quit [Excess Flood]
[20:33:27] <Loetmichel> hmmm... is there any movement on the CAD front? any advice on free/cheap 3d soft that is useable by a year-long CorelDraw user?
[20:34:57] <archivist> open source CAD movement seems slow
[20:36:02] <toastydeath> slow/virtually nonexistant
[20:36:57] <archivist> "virtually nonexistant" is a little harsh :)
[20:39:36] <toastydeath> I CALLS IT LIKE I SEES IT
[20:42:40] -!- andypugh [andypugh!~andy2@cpc2-basl1-0-0-cust639.basl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #linuxcnc
[20:42:58] <archivist> well I see a lot of commits on the BRLCAD project...its just not for drawing parts though
[20:44:05] -!- factor [factor!~factor@r74-195-216-98.msk1cmtc02.mskgok.ok.dh.suddenlink.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[20:58:16] -!- aircraft [aircraft!~aircraft@xmpp.jrudevels.org] has parted #linuxcnc
[21:13:44] -!- erasmo [erasmo!~erasmo@77-254-243-49.adsl.inetia.pl] has joined #linuxcnc
[21:20:22] -!- vladimirek has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[21:31:49] -!- mattions has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
[21:34:59] -!- jthornton has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
[21:35:15] -!- JT-Shop has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
[21:38:41] -!- mhaberler has quit [Quit: mhaberler]
[22:04:34] -!- paideia has quit [Quit: Leaving]
[22:09:33] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[22:10:33] -!- DJ9DJ has quit [Quit: by(t)e]
[22:14:11] -!- gmouer [gmouer!~gmouer@cpe-74-65-14-255.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined #linuxcnc
[22:25:12] -!- chillly has quit [Quit: Leaving]
[22:30:43] -!- Yarl has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
[22:31:50] -!- JT-Shop [JT-Shop!~John@184-63-140-99.cust.wildblue.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[22:31:53] -!- jthornton [jthornton!~john@] has joined #linuxcnc
[22:41:02] <r00t4rd3d> Still need to clean it up, sand, stain etc: http://i.imgur.com/c3QxD.jpg
[22:42:38] -!- FinboySlick has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
[22:56:47] -!- artag [artag!~artag@artag.phoenixhaven.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[22:59:49] -!- morfic [morfic!~morfic@unaffiliated/morfic] has joined #linuxcnc
[23:11:13] -!- gmouer has quit []
[23:18:30] -!- alpha1125 has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.]
[23:19:33] -!- racycle has quit [Quit: racycle]
[23:20:50] -!- cmorley has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
[23:46:38] -!- Valen [Valen!~Valen@c122-108-45-139.blktn6.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #linuxcnc
[23:51:40] <Tecan> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JtVh_9hPh8 << slo mo kittens through the air
[23:52:30] -!- asdfasd has quit []