#linuxcnc | Logs for 2012-11-09

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[00:33:38] <Jymmm> salmonella contamination http://money.cnn.com/2012/11/08/news/companies/nestle-nesquik-recall/index.html?hpt=hp_t3
[00:35:05] <Jymmm> Sunscreen could burst into flames on skin http://money.cnn.com/2012/10/19/news/companies/sunscreen-recall-flames/index.html
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[00:55:58] * jthornton knew if he cleaned long enough the elusive XL200R owners manual would appear like magic
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[02:06:32] <r00t4rd3d> do you guys leave your controllers/pc's out in the cold with no heat?
[02:09:13] <Valen> i live in a place where temperatures are generally sensible ;-P
[02:09:26] <Valen> anybody done anything with rotating ball nuts?
[02:09:30] <r00t4rd3d> its 27F out now.
[02:09:33] <Valen> its a new idea to me
[02:09:37] <r00t4rd3d> http://reinventingscience.wordpress.com/2011/03/18/harris-educationals-new-computer/
[02:09:48] <Valen> i also live in a place where we measure temperatures with sensible units ;-P
[02:09:55] <r00t4rd3d> i need to make that case so I can put my pc and controller in one and be able to move it easily.
[02:12:20] <jdh> r00t: see the new vectric freebie project?
[02:12:31] <r00t4rd3d> no
[02:13:05] <r00t4rd3d> hah, nother botx
[02:13:08] <r00t4rd3d> box*
[02:13:15] <jdh> 4x4x4
[02:13:33] <jdh> my 60-degree vbit showed up today
[02:14:24] <jdh> along with my new atom d525 I purposefully avoided buying from newegg... it came dropshipped from newegg by the amazon vendor
[02:14:38] <r00t4rd3d> lol
[02:15:04] <jdh> I even paid a few $ more to not get it from newegg
[02:17:51] <r00t4rd3d> lodge a complaint.
[02:19:05] <jdh> anyone tried linuxcnc on a Intel Innovation D2500HN
[02:19:51] <Jymmm> ask andy
[02:20:47] <jdh> $64 board
[02:21:02] <jdh> same chipset as d525
[02:21:09] <Jymmm> Not the one I'm thinking then.
[02:21:40] <r00t4rd3d> there is one you can power with a 9v battery
[02:23:15] <Jymmm> 8-19VDC DIRECT, no PS needed... http://www.mini-box.com/Intel-DN2800MT-Mini-ITX-Motherboard
[02:23:32] <jdh> nevermind... has no pport. looks like dual ethernet, dual serial and dvi though
[02:23:42] <Jymmm> The specs on that page are incorrect, it DOES have an intel nic
[02:23:59] <Jymmm> oh, they corrected it already
[02:24:15] <Jymmm> 3/4" tall =)
[02:24:20] <Jymmm> half height atom
[02:24:32] <r00t4rd3d> i just looked up my d525 operating temps
[02:24:34] <r00t4rd3d> Non-Operating -20 °C to +70 °C
[02:24:46] <jdh> HD?
[02:25:07] <Jymmm> 0.79" tall
[02:25:11] <r00t4rd3d> i dont care about the hd
[02:25:28] <Jymmm> we dont care that you dont care about the hd
[02:25:35] <jdh> I care.
[02:26:03] <Jymmm> It also has LVDS , but the connectivity to it needs to be researched in advanced.
[02:26:13] <Jymmm> we dont care that you care about hd
[02:26:15] <jdh> whack... lots of different pics claiming to be d2500HN, some with pport, some with 1 ps2, some with 2 ps2
[02:26:56] <PCW> D2500/2800 have poorly supported video hardware for linux
[02:27:23] <PCW> so dont expect stellar video performance
[02:27:49] <jdh> I got another d525. Also not stellar, but it only runs axis
[02:27:53] <r00t4rd3d> jdh search for intel brand
[02:27:59] <r00t4rd3d> not a clone board
[02:28:05] <r00t4rd3d> or with the same chip
[02:28:07] <Jymmm> Technical Product Vrief is 100 pages and goes into detail, theres a LVDS one too http://www.intel.com/p/en_US/support/category/dsktpboards/db-dn2800mt/doc_guide?format-type=Technical+Documents
[02:28:15] <jdh> Intel BOXD2500HN Atom Dual-Core D2500/ Intel NM10/
[02:28:29] <Jymmm> jdh: http://www.intel.com/p/en_US/support/category/dsktpboards/db-dn2800mt/doc_guide?format-type=Technical+Documents
[02:28:37] <Jymmm> jdh: from the horses mouth
[02:28:55] <jdh> that's not the same board though.
[02:30:03] <Jymmm> Your looking at a mobo that's end of life.
[02:30:11] <jdh> but, the intel page does show a pport. Glad I didn't see it... it's $20 cheaper
[02:30:27] <jdh> that's not really an issue.
[02:31:01] <jdh> I have boxes at work that were EOLed 25 years ago :)
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[02:32:25] <toastydeath> http://www.ebay.com/itm/LODGE-SHIPLEY-60-CHUCKING-LATHE-/360448279650?_trksid=p5197.m1992&_trkparms=aid%3D111000%26algo%3DREC.CURRENT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D14%26meid%3D3328144195066251943%26pid%3D100015%26prg%3D1006%26rk%3D1%26sd%3D360448279650%26
[02:32:36] <toastydeath> am i the only one who wants that style of lathe
[02:32:41] <toastydeath> they seem super rare
[02:34:47] <jdh> never seen one. looks nifty for huge not long parts
[02:34:58] <toastydeath> yeah, which is most lathe work
[02:36:12] <toastydeath> 50-60" swing lathes are cool but they usually only swing 30" or so over the carriage unless it's a roll lathe or similar style
[02:36:49] <toastydeath> American made some pretty big swing lathes that actually swung a good fraction of that over the carriage and had short beds
[02:37:40] <r00t4rd3d> http://slipperyskip.com/page23.html
[02:39:05] <toastydeath> that's some fancy stuff
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[02:39:54] <r00t4rd3d> http://forums.bit-tech.net/showthread.php?t=220958
[02:40:05] <r00t4rd3d> build thread for one
[02:44:13] <toastydeath> does anyone here use a turret lathe for their primary turning
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[02:53:13] <ReadError> r00t4rd3d, go SSD
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[04:04:37] <tjb1> More progress - http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/550064_4571154312879_2086822260_n.jpg
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[07:04:06] <oldmatrixnuts> hello
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[07:55:26] <pilla_> ohai
[07:56:05] <pilla_> If you run linuxCNC, is there a specific pin on the parallel output of the pc that is always 1?
[07:56:38] <Valen> there may well be a power pin
[07:56:50] <Valen> I'd suggest looking at the pport spec and seeing what it says
[07:57:49] <pilla_> ty
[08:00:04] <DJ9DJ> moin
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[08:09:11] <pilla_> Does someone know if you can safely short an output pin in high state to an input pin?
[08:09:23] <pilla_> ...parallel port that is :D
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[08:11:01] <archivist> depends
[08:11:40] <Valen> aren't pport pins open collector or something similar?
[08:12:00] <pilla_> alas, I have no clue what that is ^^'
[08:12:03] <archivist> some/most are but it varies
[08:13:18] <Valen> it means you will need a resistor to ground or power in order for it to actually toggle
[08:13:34] <Valen> perhaps it might be an idea to describe what you are actually trying to do pilla_
[08:13:47] <archivist> sometimes the pull up is internal some times not
[08:14:26] <archivist> and not all pins are the same iirc
[08:15:17] <pilla_> I want, that if my CNC machine 'homes' (I have no homing switches), that my x, y and z limits get triggered
[08:15:18] <Valen> probably varies with the mode of the pport too
[08:15:39] <Valen> why not just turn homing off?
[08:15:51] <pilla_> I want to make homing switches
[08:16:16] <Valen> so when you have them wire them up ;->
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[08:16:22] <pilla_> I don't have them
[08:16:25] <pilla_> I want to make them
[08:16:33] <Valen> (we ran for years without homing switches lol)
[08:16:44] <pilla_> :D
[08:16:51] <Valen> yeah, but you are trying to do this weird loopback thing and i can't work out why
[08:17:01] <Valen> if you presently lack homing switches, just turn homing off
[08:17:04] <pilla_> I want to put cables on the x, y and z axis
[08:17:12] <Valen> when you then gain homing switches, wire them in
[08:17:27] <pilla_> and if they touch the "home" position, the pins should get active
[08:17:47] <pilla_> I just don't know how to make those pins active
[08:18:10] <Valen> ey archivist, we are building a new wood/Al mill/router we want to do some detailed type profiling, I'm thinking of going to rotating nut ballscrews rather than spinning the ballscrew
[08:18:20] <pilla_> either putting another cable on the home position so that if they home, the pins touch that cable, and a 1 signal is sent
[08:18:22] <Valen> reason being is we are going for a 1200mm work area
[08:18:49] <Valen> pilla_: is english not your native tounge?
[08:19:00] <pilla_> nope, is it that obvious? D
[08:19:02] <pilla_> xD
[08:19:16] <Valen> any thoughts archivist? looking at hiwin brand screws and rails
[08:19:38] <archivist> pilla_, as long as you set a pin to be an input then you can short it to gnd
[08:19:59] <Valen> for somebody with english as your second language your doing pretty well, if it was your major language I'd get up you for talking imprecisely about precise stuff ;->
[08:20:21] <archivist> I think my 5 axis has some hiwin (got them surplus)
[08:20:23] <pilla_> Haha, sorry, my english knowledge isn't very technical ^^
[08:20:49] <Valen> but yah as archivist said, if you make the pin an input you shouldn't be able to hurt it giving it either 5v or gnd
[08:21:09] <pilla_> So I can short them to ground? That was exactly what I needed :) Thanks!
[08:21:19] <Valen> make *sure* its an input first
[08:21:42] <archivist> I still have no homing switches !
[08:21:46] <Valen> archivist: any idea what the pullup is on one of them
[08:21:59] <Valen> I got around to hooking up the index pulses on our glass scales for homing
[08:22:09] <Valen> I think dad's used it twice in 6 months ;->
[08:22:09] <pilla_> LinuxCNC assigns the x limit, y limit and z limit to pins 10, 11, 12, so I suppose those will be/stay input ports? :)
[08:22:21] <archivist> yes
[08:22:33] <Valen> note the limit is not the same as a home input
[08:22:48] <archivist> 330 ohms is a lower value I think I have seen
[08:23:11] <Valen> I was thinking he could probe with a resistor but at 330ohms it'd be kinda pointless
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[08:23:35] <archivist> that is the pullup value
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[08:24:04] <Valen> ahh, so probe with a 1K for safety ;->
[08:24:07] <archivist> some just dont have pullups, like I found more than once
[08:24:17] <pilla_> anyways, thanks! That was what I needed to know ^^
[08:24:30] <Valen> I'm not paying enough attention you should probably ignore me lol
[08:24:40] <Valen> pilla_: are you using mbo pport or on a card?
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[08:25:39] <pilla_> I'm using a school pc so I'm not worrying about frying the PC xD
[08:25:44] <pilla_> dunno, probably on a card
[08:25:52] <pilla_> hopefully ;)
[08:25:57] <Valen> frying the PC was my concern
[08:26:21] <pilla_> but I'll let my teacher double check the schematic first, so if it gets fried I'm not responsible :P
[08:27:06] <Valen> good plan lol
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[08:30:02] <archivist> I think rotating nut allows faster travels
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[08:31:32] <Valen> it looks like it, the issue we were having was the critical speed
[08:31:39] <Valen> for the ballscrew
[08:31:58] <Valen> with 1200 travel we needed 25mm to get a critical speed of 1200
[08:32:01] <Valen> RPM
[08:32:43] <Valen> we could go to 10mm lead which would hit 4 meters a minute at ~500 RPM, but we'd need to double the gearing which was already like 5:1
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[08:33:05] * Valen is just about to place an order for some bigass mesa drivers ;->
[08:36:04] <pilla_> it seems you can't have both home -and- limit switches? too few pinouts? Or am I wrong?
[08:36:36] <Valen> emc can, i don't know about a pport
[08:37:22] <Valen> there is an option to use limit as home i believe
[08:37:56] <archivist> you can add another parallel port for more io
[08:38:08] <cncbasher> pilla_: use switches for limits and homing
[08:38:29] <pilla_> Yay more chance to fry the PC :D I've been looking in the homing sequence again and actually I don't need two switches ^^
[08:40:33] <Valen> we ran without limtis for years too
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[08:45:21] <archivist> makes no sense to add homing and limits to some axes specially rotary
[08:46:03] <pilla_> My teacher wants me to add a camera to the machine, so I'd like to home first so I know what I'm taking pictures of :P
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[08:46:41] <archivist> I did have a camera in the early days
[08:47:03] <pilla_> I bought a canon 400d yesterday (/offtopic)
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[08:47:41] <archivist> was way back in 2008 http://www.archivist.info/cnc/cnccam.html
[08:48:21] <pilla_> haha, nice
[08:48:44] <pilla_> now, lightning is something I haven't thought of yet.... Oh well, should be using the camera in a brightly lit environment :p
[08:49:25] <archivist> lighting and focus for close up work needs a bit of work
[08:50:34] <archivist> I wanted the camera as an alignment device as I need to get the cutter on the centre line
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[08:55:02] <Jymmm> archivist: Are those ACTUAL crosshairs or image overlays?
[08:55:29] <archivist> code writes into the image
[08:55:59] <Jymmm> archivist: But do you see them when doing alignment on the screen?
[08:56:12] <archivist> yes
[08:56:21] <Jymmm> very nice
[08:56:47] <Jymmm> archivist: too bad you can't add a measuring scale too
[08:57:12] <archivist> you have to know the lens magnification
[08:57:21] <Jymmm> Yeah, I understand.
[08:57:52] <archivist> and it is made worse by camera object distance
[08:58:31] <Jymmm> I was just kinda impressed with how fine the crosshairs are
[08:58:48] <archivist> 1 pixel
[08:59:29] <Jymmm> on avg 1/72 of an inch
[09:00:15] <archivist> what would be better is to mount the camera on a stage under cnc control so one can see the real measurements
[09:01:28] <Jymmm> Well, if the Z doens't change much. You could calibrate against a steel rule placed on the table maybe.
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[09:02:56] <archivist> steel rule! do you realise how inaccurate that is
[09:03:38] <Jymmm> Well, it's better than cheap usb miceoscope I have that measures distance in software =)
[09:05:13] <archivist> I sometimes need to be better than a thou, the best steel rules are 10 thou iirc
[09:06:35] <Jymmm> I looked my starret 6" rule under the USB microscope, and THEN I could see how rough even the 100ths scale was
[09:07:17] <Jymmm> thought I was looking at the grand canyon
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[10:03:08] <pilla_> So um my teacher doesn't mind the CNC machine hitting the home limits... so can I set it in CNC that once the machine trips the home switch, it just "stops"?
[10:03:17] <pilla_> without going back and blah
[10:05:54] <pilla_> in linucnc that is.
[10:06:03] <pilla_> +x
[10:06:41] <Valen> home and limit are very different things
[10:06:57] <Valen> though you can use a limit switch for homing I believe
[10:07:08] <Valen> do you understand the difference between the two?
[10:07:14] <pilla_> no :)
[10:07:44] <Valen> a home switch is to tell the mill accuratly where in its travel it is
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[10:08:17] <Valen> so if you have a jig on the mill you can return it to the same cordinates each time
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[10:08:44] <Valen> the limit switches are there to say "you are about to hit the end of travel on this axis you should stop now"
[10:09:09] <pilla_> So if I only use a limit switch, the machine just stops when it hits it? :)
[10:09:21] <Valen> when you have homed the mill if you have the limits set in the software emc won't intentionally hit the limit switches either
[10:09:34] <Valen> thats the purpose of a limit switch
[10:09:41] <pilla_> Ok, thanks ;)
[10:09:44] <Valen> to stop you from driving into the end of the axis
[10:10:54] <Valen> if you are really feeling an I/O pinch you can join all the limit switches together onto one pin i think
[10:11:55] <pilla_> Oh but my teacher said he doesn't mind the machine driving into the end of the axis.. So I'm just going to use limit switches on the end of the axis.
[10:12:05] <pilla_> But then I'd need 3 pins right?
[10:12:18] <pilla_> (with 3 axes)
[10:12:34] <Valen> he doesn't mind it pushing at full power into the end of the axis?
[10:12:45] <Valen> or he doesn't mind it hitting a limit switch?
[10:12:46] <pilla_> He doesn't mind.
[10:13:10] <pilla_> He doesn't mind the first ;)
[10:13:27] <Valen> then don't bother with any switches
[10:13:40] <pilla_> lol
[10:13:45] <Valen> i'm serious
[10:13:58] <Valen> archivist runs to this day without home at least and i think without limit
[10:14:07] <Valen> we run without limits and only sometimes home
[10:14:27] <pilla_> Then how does he, in a software-way, have the machine "home"?
[10:14:37] <Valen> he doesnt
[10:14:47] <pilla_> My teacher wants me to be able to do that
[10:14:48] <Valen> its not a requirement
[10:14:51] <Valen> you can turn it off
[10:14:53] <Valen> why?
[10:15:04] <pilla_> Because it makes life easier.
[10:15:12] <Valen> how?
[10:16:35] <pilla_> Because he wants noob students to be able to push a button so the machine homes, put a print board on the miller, take a picture with a cheap webcam of the print board, point to some places on the picture, and have the cnc mill there.
[10:18:07] <pilla_> I don't exactly need it to home, but it's difficult to (without any human intervention) take pictures of the board if the machine doesn't know where it is
[10:18:23] <pilla_> so if I home the machine, I at least have a reference point
[10:19:02] <Valen> if you go and "take pictures of the board"
[10:19:07] <Valen> then you are touching off
[10:19:10] <Valen> you don't need to home
[10:19:51] <pilla_> I know that, but I want to be able to take a picture of the complete workspace
[10:20:18] <Valen> to what end?
[10:20:44] <pilla_> don't understand that sentence, can you rephrase? :)
[10:21:07] <Valen> soldering brb
[10:22:13] <archivist> I can see why your teacher wants proper homing
[10:23:08] <archivist> touching off is just setting 0 to some reference eg a corner of your board
[10:23:09] <pilla_> That way I can also prevent people from using commands that exceed the machine limits (if I have a limit switch)
[10:23:54] <archivist> linuxcnc also has soft limits so it should never hit the switches in practice
[10:24:34] <pilla_> My teacher thinks it's the most precise to have the machine hit the hard limits, then you know exactly where the machine is
[10:24:48] <pilla_> ...I don't complain, it's easiest to make this way xD
[10:25:28] <archivist> homing is not hard limits there is a difference
[10:26:13] <pilla_> I know but he asked to hit the hard limits so I don't need homing anymore. If I have my own cnc miller I would do proper homing, but here teacher's boss.
[10:26:22] <pilla_> I'll just use limits
[10:27:00] <Valen> hard limits would be less accurate than a good home switch I'd reckon
[10:27:04] <Valen> just due to bending the machine
[10:27:25] <pilla_> mmm, I don't think this machine is powerful enough for that
[10:28:27] <Valen> j4
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[11:21:44] <pilla_> bah dumb miller :P
[11:22:06] <pilla_> I can't seem to find (reliable) information about the YooCNC T26-3ax board
[11:22:30] <pilla_> there are free pins there, but I dunno what kind of voltage has to be applied to them
[11:22:54] <pilla_> I'm afraid that if I do a full 5v on them I'll fry something xD
[11:23:37] <archivist> look at the chips on the board
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[11:24:23] <pilla_> should've done that before I screwed it back together xD
[11:24:26] <archivist> then get a datasheet on a chip, follow the power pins to the connectors
[11:26:13] <pilla_> infrared emitting diodes. wut
[11:27:10] <pilla_> cant read it, brb
[11:29:53] <pilla_> aha photocouplers :D ty
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[14:30:20] <alpha1125> L84Supper where are you having issues sourcing acme screws and nuts? if in USA, mcmaster.com. If in Canada… there's a place called durham fasteners, near Toronto…
[14:35:12] <L84Supper> alpha1125: yes, the prices there aren' that great, probably since they are one of the few that actually keep stock
[14:35:33] <alpha1125> fastenel is worse.
[14:36:10] <alpha1125> what are you looking for specifically? I ran through all these things like 10 years ago, when I start playing around with CNC.
[14:36:21] <alpha1125> first time I turned on my mill in over a year, was last weekend.
[14:36:46] <L84Supper> yeah, I ended up buying longer lengths and then will machine them to size
[14:45:16] <L84Supper> but of course after ordering them, I now find N.O.S. on ebay only 5 miles from me
[14:48:05] <alpha1125> lol
[14:48:27] <alpha1125> go check them out… it'd probably be worth your time… if not, just another place to source stuff for the future.
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[15:20:16] <tjb1> iPhone is trying to die on me :(
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[15:33:03] <Jymmm> IIF you heat treat SS to harden it as opposed to cold rolled, wouldn't heating it back up anneal it again? Also would heating cold rolled anneal it too?
[15:33:47] <archivist> define heating it up
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[15:34:43] <Jymmm> Subjecting heat treated SS to 1200F for 20 minutes
[15:38:05] <syyl> SS = silversteel?
[15:38:14] <Jymmm> Stainless Steel
[15:38:46] <syyl> there are tons of stainless steels
[15:38:49] <archivist> this is his 10 year project to get something to market
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[15:39:07] <syyl> and very much can not be hardened
[15:39:31] <archivist> it work hardens :)
[15:39:37] <syyl> yeah
[15:39:44] <syyl> but most people dont like that ;)
[15:40:00] <archivist> specially the tooling hates it
[15:40:00] <syyl> i machined stainless sheetmetal today, with a 0,8mm endmill
[15:40:01] <syyl> hell ;)
[15:40:24] <TekniQue> that must have taken a while
[15:40:29] <TekniQue> what kind of rpms and feed rates?
[15:41:10] <syyl> 40000rpm and 1000mm/min
[15:41:52] <syyl> with a 0,1mm depth of cut
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[15:42:14] <syyl> dry
[15:42:19] <TekniQue> yeah, that'd take a while
[15:42:19] <syyl> got a pretty good finish
[15:42:32] <TekniQue> just engraving'
[15:42:36] <TekniQue> ?
[15:47:50] <syyl> cutouts
[15:47:57] <syyl> 1mm thick sheet metal
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[16:43:46] <Mjolinor> I am trying to work out a gc0ode instruction to home after I have finished cutting
[16:43:49] <Mjolinor> I am getting my gcode fomr the Gcode export of PCB and it just stops wehre it ends and I wnt it to go home
[16:43:52] <archivist> add a line
[16:43:52] <Mjolinor> anyone care to enlighten me, can't see anyhtign obvious on the linuxcnc gcode pages
[16:43:54] <cradek> you might want to check into g28?
[16:44:07] <cradek> or maybe you want g0 g53 z0
[16:45:01] <Mjolinor> I got as far as the G0 :)
[16:45:23] <Loetmichel> re @ home
[16:47:32] <Mjolinor> so two lines: g0 g53 z1 and then g0 g53 x0 y0 should do it
[16:47:34] <Mjolinor> thank you
[16:47:49] <Mjolinor> that works :)
[16:49:28] <cradek> usually z0 should be the top of travel, so g0 g53 z1 is normally an unreachable position
[16:51:02] <Loetmichel> cradek: until the ref switches are a few mm before the end of travel
[16:51:03] <Loetmichel> s/until/exept when
[16:51:22] <cradek> sure, but the position of the switch does not dictate where your zero must be
[16:51:33] <Loetmichel> no, but usually is
[16:51:50] <Loetmichel> if not configured otherwise
[16:52:12] <cradek> that's not really my experience, but I don't care to argue about it
[16:52:50] <cradek> normally I see zero being exactly one end of the allowable travel
[16:52:57] <cradek> but there's no reason you must do it that way
[16:53:05] <Loetmichel> my machine is configured this way also: travel goes from x-2 to 202 ;y -2 to 112 and z 2 to -112
[16:53:39] <Loetmichel> regulat movement is only 200*110*110, the 4mm in each axis are "spare"
[16:53:48] <cradek> a commercial machine I used to have was travel x 0..18, y 0..12, z 0..-5
[16:53:48] <Loetmichel> and the ref switches sit on 0,0,0
[16:54:12] <cradek> the home switch and index pulse were inside that region somewhere
[16:55:22] <Mjolinor> z0 is hte surface of my PCB copper
[16:56:26] <cradek> Mjolinor: that's a workpiece origin; we're talking about the machine limits established by homing
[16:56:26] <Loetmichel> what i meant: the excess travel is not meant to be used "regulary" but is there for breakung pourposes and for the occasional workpiece which is "JUST that small bit" to large for the machine ;-)
[16:56:27] <Mjolinor> but I home to one corner of the PCB
[16:56:43] <Mjolinor> so X Y and Z are all homed to the front left corner
[16:56:43] <cradek> you do not use workpiece origin? g54 etc?
[16:57:11] <cradek> using homing to set your work origin means you do not have the protection of axis limits, and you don't have a useful g53 coordinate system
[16:57:20] <Loetmichel> Mjolinor: does your machine HAVE ref/home switches?
[16:57:25] <Mjolinor> no
[16:57:28] <Mjolinor> no switches
[16:57:33] <Loetmichel> ah, there ;)
[16:57:58] <cradek> you can still home it by jogging to a known location. put markings on it.
[16:58:03] <cradek> end of travels, for instance
[16:58:13] <cradek> doing this gives you many useful things
[16:58:51] <Loetmichel> gettting work done seamlessly after some crash or step loss
[16:58:58] <Mjolinor> I can home like that but if I want more than one PCB rather than lay it out as multiple I cut one then move the origin for X and cut another
[16:58:59] <Loetmichel> for example ;-)
[16:59:46] <Loetmichel> you can still do that with g54
[16:59:53] <cradek> Mjolinor: for that, use workpiece (g54) origin, set with touch off
[17:11:11] <pcw_home> wow the forum is really busted today
[17:11:13] <cradek> uh-oh
[17:11:16] <cradek> more details? I don't see anything wrong at first glance.
[17:11:17] <pcw_home> 500 Internal Server Error
[17:11:17] <pcw_home> Fatal Error was detected!
[17:11:18] <pcw_home> Please contact the site owner.
[17:11:19] <cradek> when doing what?
[17:11:21] <pcw_home> if you click the recent topics tab
[17:11:32] <cradek> Error: Allowed memory size of 94371840 bytes exhausted (tried to allocate 9 bytes) in libraries/joomla/registry/registry.php on line 125
[17:11:32] <cradek> this kind of thing?
[17:11:37] <pcw_home> I dont get that just the internal server error message
[17:11:41] <cradek> hmmm
[17:11:43] <pcw_home> someone (cncbasher) said there were 55,000 guests reported...
[17:11:51] <pcw_home> sorry ArcEye
[17:13:23] <cncbasher> must be all the bots lining up to jump in
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[17:51:57] <tjb1> :) http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/550064_4571154312879_2086822260_n.jpg
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[18:03:56] <IchGuckLive> hi all in the world B9
[18:11:40] -!- JesusAlos- [JesusAlos-!~yaaic@] has joined #linuxcnc
[18:11:52] <IchGuckLive> hi JesusAlos-
[18:12:02] <JesusAlos-> hi andy
[18:12:03] <IchGuckLive> and everything working
[18:12:25] <IchGuckLive> did you see the video advice
[18:12:29] <ReadError> hey guys
[18:12:34] <IchGuckLive> O.O
[18:12:37] <ReadError> do you need powerfeed to cut threads on a lathe?
[18:12:54] <JesusAlos-> yes i saw.
[18:13:08] <IchGuckLive> does it work for you
[18:13:09] <JesusAlos-> thank a lott
[18:13:33] <archivist> ReadError, er strange question in a cnc channel
[18:13:36] <JesusAlos-> i know samm
[18:13:46] <ReadError> archivist
[18:13:49] <ReadError> well heres the thing
[18:13:53] <ReadError> im getting a lathe (taig)
[18:13:58] <JesusAlos-> this night i try linuxcnc
[18:13:58] <ReadError> and will convert it to cnc
[18:14:53] <IchGuckLive> JesusAlos-: good luck
[18:15:04] <JesusAlos-> thak
[18:15:43] <IchGuckLive> you know wher to get help
[18:15:49] <JesusAlos-> sorry if i not speak a lott. i write from mobile
[18:16:00] <IchGuckLive> NP
[18:17:50] <JesusAlos-> i eat some oranges. recently take of tree
[18:18:21] <IchGuckLive> i thought you where on the way to the party of marilo montero
[18:18:49] <IchGuckLive> la manana uno
[18:19:49] <JesusAlos-> jjj. no boy
[18:20:25] <JesusAlos-> i finish work. now go to pub with friend
[18:20:55] <JesusAlos-> and who know, late maybe some party...
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[18:46:54] <andypugh> If the forum stays down much longer I might have to do some actual work.
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[18:47:44] <pcw_home> Yeah it was stumbling but I think its fallen over...
[18:48:44] <IchGuckLive> http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/ is everything that counts
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[18:49:33] <IchGuckLive> pcw_home: do yyou got 100w AC drivers in your boards
[18:49:45] <IchGuckLive> for a UVW servo
[18:49:54] <pcw_home> No not 100V
[18:50:04] <andypugh> Says 100W
[18:50:10] <andypugh> 7i39?
[18:50:22] <IchGuckLive> i have alock
[18:50:31] <pcw_home> 7I39 with the right transistors maybe
[18:52:03] <IchGuckLive> are UVW servos always DC
[18:52:40] <pcw_home> the motors run on 3 phase variable frequency AC
[18:52:43] <IchGuckLive> my R7m reads 200V 0.87A
[18:53:21] <IchGuckLive> im still strugeling with the Mind to understand how this systems work
[18:53:53] <IchGuckLive> my Xtradrive from Ebay has a Encoder input and 230V AC also UVW
[18:54:10] <IchGuckLive> it might read analog and puls/Dir
[18:54:43] <IchGuckLive> so on pulse dir how does the controler act ? on its own mined
[18:54:45] <andypugh> What do you mean by "UVW"?
[18:54:46] <pcw_home> U/V/W from encoder is commutation signal
[18:55:03] <IchGuckLive> no the Servo power
[18:55:19] <pcw_home> (equivalent to "Hall" signals)
[18:56:12] <andypugh> IchGuckLive: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BLDC
[18:56:20] <pcw_home> with a step/dir servo the drive has a PID position loop and a up/down counter that the servo PID loop follows
[18:56:24] <IchGuckLive> and for understanding on Servo analog how does the controler Pc knows the back signal if there is the encoder to the Driver
[18:56:41] <andypugh> IchGuckLive: Often it doesn't.
[18:56:50] <skunkworks> open loop
[18:56:55] <pcw_home> most drives can echo the encoder signals back to the controller
[18:57:06] <andypugh> But many drives pass-through the encoder signal to the PC.
[18:58:06] <IchGuckLive> i got 3 connectors i ill have a look on the pins
[18:58:50] <andypugh> If you _only_ have three pins, then you need a sensorless drive and it's not likely to work for CNC,
[18:59:34] <pcw_home> if it has an analog controller interface, the controller (LinuxCNC) needs to have the encoder signals
[18:59:35] <pcw_home> (well not always a system with linear scales might just have the scale count go to the controller)
[19:00:18] <IchGuckLive> i got it there is a signal transmission
[19:00:49] <IchGuckLive> andypugh: 3 connectors with 30 pins plus
[19:01:27] <andypugh> That's almost worse. I wonder what all those pins do?
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[19:02:18] <IchGuckLive> it wars cheep
[19:02:34] <IchGuckLive> i will try to get a servo running
[19:02:47] <IchGuckLive> 700Eur is far over the limit
[19:03:11] <IchGuckLive> 65eur motor and controler but i think it is overwalming me
[19:03:19] <IchGuckLive> no cable at all
[19:04:11] <archivist> look inside, reverse engineer
[19:04:48] <IchGuckLive> i do
[19:05:20] <IchGuckLive> they OMRON and Ysakawa helpt me by PDF the Cable pinlayout now i start soldering
[19:05:41] <IchGuckLive> thanks the pinsolder are 2,54mm
[19:05:56] <IchGuckLive> so maybe good luck one time
[19:13:37] <IchGuckLive> first i need a other encoder this on the motor is broken maybe i killed it on messuring
[19:14:07] <IchGuckLive> there is no index but all datasheet give me a A/B/Z encoder
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[19:14:27] <IchGuckLive> we will se comes time comes a conclution
[19:15:15] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.lacie.com/products/product.htm?id=10611#a1
[19:15:55] <IchGuckLive> By
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[19:39:50] <mrsun> hmm, using U groove ball bearings insted of V groove ... hows that ?
[19:39:55] <mrsun> good, bad?
[19:40:05] <mrsun> anyone know the advantages to V vs U ? :)
[19:40:49] <andypugh> Can you be more specific on what youare describing?
[19:42:04] <mrsun> http://www.vxb.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/rm4-2rs-1.jpg versus http://image.made-in-china.com/2f0j00ZjOQVABsSYkI/Windows-Ball-Bearingwith-U-Groove-Roller-D19-25-.jpg for cnc linear guides
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[19:46:53] <andypugh> I would expect V-groove ot be adjustable for less slop, and U-groove to last longer.
[19:52:41] <pcw_home> Well that was interesting: accessing www.linuxCNC.org returned:
[19:52:42] <pcw_home> Array
[19:52:44] <pcw_home> (
[19:52:45] <pcw_home> [0] => Array
[19:52:47] <pcw_home> (
[19:52:48] <pcw_home> [file] => /home/emcboard/www.linuxcnc.org/libraries/joomla/application/component/helper.php
[19:52:50] <pcw_home> [line] => 203
[19:52:51] <pcw_home> [function] => loadObjectList
[19:52:53] <pcw_home> [class] => JDatabaseMySQL
[19:52:54] <pcw_home> [type] => ->
[19:52:56] <pcw_home> [object] => JDatabaseMySQL Object
[19:52:57] <pcw_home> ....
[19:55:33] <cradek> I think alex is currently working on it
[19:56:23] <pcw_home> must be something going on for it to spew plain text
[20:00:22] <alex_joni> pcw_home: I was hacking on it ;)
[20:00:35] <alex_joni> that was a backtrace on php
[20:00:46] <pcw_home> Ahh
[20:01:11] <alex_joni> had a bit of a bot problem ;)
[20:01:27] <alex_joni> 57k google bots around, which each stored a session in the DB
[20:01:42] <alex_joni> which in turn grew huge, and caused php to bomb out
[20:02:01] <pcw_home> So ArcEyes 55000 users was not far off
[20:02:08] <andypugh> Actual Google bots, or evil spammy bots?
[20:02:56] <alex_joni> andypugh: your guess is probablybetter than mine
[20:03:05] <alex_joni> but they feel like legit google bots
[20:03:09] <andypugh> 413 guests online already. Which seems unlikely
[20:03:17] <alex_joni> again bots
[20:03:26] <alex_joni> seems my robots.txt change didn't go so well
[20:03:38] <pcw_home> That must be why the email slowed to a crawl
[20:04:24] <andypugh> Any idea where the numbers in the admin box on the left come from? (1 unban request, 12 user reports, 3 images, 551 users). Those numbers never go to zero. I now know that 551 means nonbody needs approving...
[20:05:42] <alex_joni> hmm.. these bots keep creating sessions
[20:06:02] <alex_joni> but I guess they create session for the whole site, not just forum/
[20:06:17] <alex_joni> andypugh: that comes from CB (community builder), no idea about the numbers though
[20:06:21] <alex_joni> I wondered too
[20:07:04] <alex_joni> btw, sorry for kicking you out repeatedly, so you have to log in again
[20:08:55] <andypugh> CB Tools has a "check database: link. I never dard press it.
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[20:11:54] <alex_joni> I used it a couple times
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[20:13:55] <mevon_> hello anyone here knows about HAL and arduino?
[20:14:28] <mevon_> maybe I should ask in a python related channel too
[20:14:33] <skunkworks> mevon_, what are you trying to do?
[20:14:51] <mevon_> hi skunkworks, basicly: the impossible
[20:14:58] <mevon_> :P
[20:15:01] <skunkworks> we do that here...
[20:15:04] <mevon_> pardon my dark humour
[20:15:11] <mevon_> :P ok nice
[20:15:21] <mevon_> Im trying tosetup a arduino2emc
[20:15:52] <mrsun> gah frekin ebay sellers do not specify if the V groove bearings are double race or not ...
[20:16:00] <mrsun> how will i know if its p for the task ... :P
[20:16:11] <mevon_> using Emc2Arduino
[20:16:17] <skunkworks> mevon_, I have used this and it works very well (using it to get temp into linuxcnc) http://emergent.unpythonic.net/01198594294
[20:17:26] <mevon_> ok yes sweet link but my trouble is when loading the linuxcnc machine, somehow the arduino driver is not loading properly
[20:17:55] <mevon_> "Waiting for component 'arduino' to become ready."
[20:18:02] <andypugh> Which Arduino driver?
[20:18:05] <skunkworks> mevon_, oh - I had looked at that.... That seems a bit scary... It seems to try to replace the printer port with usb arduino... I don't think that would work very well...
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[20:18:22] <skunkworks> http://emc2arduino.wordpress.com/2012/04/09/emc2arduino-0-07a-hits-pre-release/
[20:18:45] <mevon_> yes exactly that
[20:19:00] <mevon_> I bet its the same arduino.py
[20:19:51] <mevon_> Ive edited it to change to /dev/ttyUSB0
[20:20:33] <mevon_> when loading i get this "HAL: ERROR: pin 'motion.probe-input' not found mantis.hal:47: unlink failed"
[20:21:16] <andypugh> Comment out the line in the custom.hal which is trying to unlink a pin you haven't linked.
[20:21:27] <mevon_> mantis.hal would be the custom.hal in ArduinoEMC .07b
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[20:21:53] <andypugh> I don't know, I guessed that mantis.hal was your original HAL?
[20:22:02] <mevon_> andypugh, yes
[20:22:19] <mevon_> well actually custom.hal from ArduinoEMC .zip
[20:22:39] <andypugh> OK, does line 47 in mantis.hal try to unlink a pin that isn;t linked?
[20:23:18] <mevon_> i guess so too but since its in a driver i was guessing it could be virtual
[20:23:29] <mevon_> as in HAL virtual
[20:23:55] <andypugh> <puzzled>
[20:23:58] <mevon_> where these pins would of be set before that?
[20:24:01] <mrsun> kinda annoying that the ones i find (RM2ZZ) that is dual race bearings is 3/8" hole ... :/
[20:24:20] <andypugh> I have no idea what you are going on about.
[20:24:25] <mrsun> i guess its not a big problem tho, even tho stuff arent metric all that need to be 3/8" is the cam action bushing for them
[20:25:01] <mevon_> andypugh, i ran the stepconf wiz and the first hal it gave me was for parralel port
[20:25:02] <andypugh> Line 47 of your mantis.hal file says "unlinkp motion.probe-input" I can tell that without even seeing the file.
[20:25:47] <andypugh> I don't know why it says that, I don't know how it came to say that, but it does.
[20:26:06] <mevon_> i swapt that one with the custom.hal i received with the arduinoemc 0.7b .zip
[20:26:06] <andypugh> delete that line, and see what crtashes next.
[20:26:09] <mevon_> ok
[20:26:31] <andypugh> You made a grave mistake then.
[20:26:48] <andypugh> You need your original HAL file _and_ the custom.hal file.
[20:27:10] <mevon_> HAL: ERROR: pin 'motion.probe-input' not found
[20:27:11] <mevon_> mantis.hal:47: unlink failed
[20:27:18] <mevon_> hummm
[20:27:24] <mevon_> ok got that
[20:27:31] <mevon_> gonna try with both
[20:27:45] <andypugh> So ignore my comment about deleting the line, reinstate the orignal mantis.hal file. Then leave custom.hal called custom.hal
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[20:28:03] <mevon_> but custom.hal your talking about is the one generated by stepconf or the one in the arduinoemc?
[20:28:45] <andypugh> For some reason I cant quite follow the writer of that Arduino thing has decided to create a custom.hal to patch a generic stepconf setup.
[20:29:12] <andypugh> So you want your original mantis.hal and his custom.hal
[20:29:15] <mevon_> well I couldnt really generate a machine that wasnt parrallel port
[20:29:31] <mevon_> with stepconf
[20:29:42] <andypugh> Stepconf is for the weak!
[20:29:46] <mevon_> lolz
[20:29:47] <mevon_> ok
[20:31:05] <andypugh> It would be neater to hand-edit his custom.hal changes into your HAL file, but then stepconf will over-write everything if you run it again.
[20:31:26] <mevon_> ok
[20:31:49] <mevon_> i now can load it without error but manual control is grayed out
[20:32:40] <andypugh> You might need to turn the machine on
[20:33:30] <andypugh> (f1 then f2, or the red buttons at the top of the screen)
[20:33:46] <mevon_> im so noob :P
[20:34:05] <andypugh> it took me a few minutes the first time too
[20:35:03] <mevon_> interface works but nothing moves :(
[20:35:15] <andypugh> Any action from the Arduino?
[20:35:22] <andypugh> blinkenlighs?
[20:36:08] <andypugh> machine->show hal config
[20:36:27] <andypugh> Look under "pins" do you see any arduino pins?
[20:37:06] <andypugh> You should see things like arduino.stop, arduino.probe
[20:37:36] <andypugh> If those are not there then my guess would be that your iNI is not referencing the custom.hal
[20:38:02] <mevon_> i see the pins
[20:38:09] <mevon_> somehow the have a status
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[20:38:20] <andypugh> That's a good sign.
[20:38:30] <mevon_> sry im so amazed right now :S
[20:38:45] <mevon_> linuxcnc is a beautifull machine
[20:39:19] <andypugh> Have you loaded the Arduino sketch into the Arduino?
[20:39:43] <mevon_> yes i had to make a lot of changes in there but nothing on the comm protocol
[20:40:01] <mevon_> stepping time is just a little longer
[20:40:13] <Aero-Tec> can EMC do good threading with only a index input?
[20:40:39] <Aero-Tec> for lathe single point threading
[20:40:51] <andypugh> I am rather puzzled as to how they expect to get around the USB latency. Generally USB isn't useful because it can take a couple of mS to send data.
[20:40:55] <pcw_home> Depends on spindle intertia vs cutting force stability
[20:41:00] <cradek> results are obviously worse than with a full encoder. define good.
[20:41:04] <pcw_home> inertia
[20:41:16] <andypugh> Aero-Tec: Better than Mach. :-)
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[20:41:24] <Aero-Tec> better then mach
[20:41:37] <alex_joni> andypugh: who's they?
[20:41:38] <cradek> why do you think you want to use that setup?
[20:41:50] <Aero-Tec> ok so single index is better then mach
[20:42:19] <Aero-Tec> it is what I have setup right now
[20:42:28] <Aero-Tec> I was doing threads with mach
[20:42:39] <pcw_home> I would guess about the same (both would have to guess the spindle position for a whole turn )
[20:42:41] <mevon_> stepping 3axis at the same time takes me 800 us minimum
[20:42:42] <Aero-Tec> but will need to do them soon with EMC
[20:43:20] <andypugh> pcw_home: Yes, but AFAIK mach doesn't look at the spindle again once it has started the move. It guesses a speed and sticks to it.
[20:43:34] <Aero-Tec> it is a large lathe and small inside thread
[20:44:01] <Aero-Tec> your right
[20:44:01] <pcw_home> andypugh: Oh thats terrible
[20:44:15] <andypugh> Aero-Tec: You need to make sure you link the position-interpolated pin in HAL, not the position pin.
[20:45:27] <andypugh> Otherwise LinuxCNC will be worse than Mach, as it will see a spindle that moves in single-rev jerks, and try to match that motion...
[20:45:44] <Aero-Tec> I have had good luck with mach threading as my lath is big and chuck heavy, but your right as to mach using index to start and not during the threading as far as I know
[20:47:07] <andypugh> If you are using external buffered controllers (like that Arduino) then you don't have much choice unless there is threading code in the controller.
[20:47:48] <Aero-Tec> the index encoder goes into mach/EMC now
[20:47:56] <Aero-Tec> through a Pport
[20:48:10] <Aero-Tec> want to upgrade that soon
[20:48:35] <andypugh> mevon_: Conventional wisdom in LinuxCNC land is that USB simply can't work. I will be interested to see how you get on. I suspect that it might be possible to make it work by sending timestamps and correcting internally.
[20:48:37] <pcw_home> even a few slots will make a big improvement in following (1/2 wheel and 2 pickups at 90 degrees = 4 counts)
[20:48:39] <pcw_home> 4 count encoder has the advantage that A=Z
[20:48:39] <Aero-Tec> and put a proper encoder on for threading and rigid taping
[20:49:07] <pcw_home> 4 counts should be about 16 time better than 1
[20:49:47] <Aero-Tec> but you need a index
[20:50:00] <Aero-Tec> you can not just use a 4 count encoder
[20:50:08] <pcw_home> A=index with a 4 count encoder
[20:50:24] <mevon_> andypugh, thanks for your support
[20:50:51] <alex_joni> what's a polar bear?
[20:51:01] <Aero-Tec> I can easily make the encoder 4 count
[20:51:13] <alex_joni> a carthesian bear which underwent a coordinate transformation
[20:51:14] <pcw_home> its just a 1/2 disk
[20:51:23] <Aero-Tec> but you need index do you not?
[20:51:32] <pcw_home> A=index
[20:51:34] <alex_joni> Aero-Tec: you do need index for threading
[20:51:45] <andypugh> alex_joni: And a sheared sheep has undergone an affine transformation?
[20:51:46] <pcw_home> 2 wires = ABZ
[20:53:47] <Aero-Tec> thanks for all the help you guys have been
[20:54:48] <Aero-Tec> how can 2 wires do AB and Z?
[20:54:55] <Aero-Tec> I can see 3 wires
[20:55:06] <mevon_> andypugh, I kinda messed and the mantis.hal generated by stepconf wiz was overwritten, somehow in the ini Im loading two times the same file with a diff name and it works :S
[20:55:08] <andypugh> One wire does A and Z
[20:55:53] <andypugh> ie, the A and Z signals are identical, but LinuxCNC does different things with them.
[20:56:24] <andypugh> I keep meaning to add missing-tooth index to the encoder.
[20:57:21] <pcw_home> that should be easy at speed (and impossible when jittering around)
[20:57:40] <andypugh> That's what cars used for crank timing for years, and there are lots of neat magnetic encoders and hall detectors for them. (and, being made in the millions, they are fairly cheap, and have a crank-shaft sized through hole, so good for a lathe.
[20:58:25] <andypugh> pcw_home: Aye but then you don't _want_ to index unless the spindle is moving at a decent speed.
[20:58:25] <mevon_> someone knows where i could find the 9axis simulator .hal file?
[20:58:51] <pcw_home> right
[20:58:54] <Aero-Tec> A should switch several times per rpm, index only one time so how do you use 1 wire for both A and Z?
[20:59:00] <andypugh> In the config-picker. sim->axis->axis-9-axis I think
[20:59:35] <pcw_home> Heres a hint: a 4 count/turn encoder is a 1PPR encoder
[21:00:09] <andypugh> Aero-Tec: PCW might not have completely explained You need a semi-circular encoder disc and two sensors at 90 degrees.
[21:00:32] <Aero-Tec> ok cool
[21:00:49] <Aero-Tec> now that makes sense
[21:01:14] <andypugh> So one rev is A+Z+ B+ A-Z- B-. That's 4 AB counts and one rising edge on Z.
[21:01:27] <pcw_home> I have this picture in my head, I dont know why you cant see it
[21:02:38] <pcw_home> you would want fairly accurate 90 degree sensor placement
[21:03:11] <andypugh> Aero-Tec: What drives your spindle? You could use a single channel and counter mode on a gear or a toothed pulley.
[21:03:19] <Aero-Tec> is that good enough for rigid taping?
[21:03:31] <andypugh> Aero-Tec: I would say not.
[21:03:54] <andypugh> It is going to do badly at spotting the reversal point.
[21:04:32] <pcw_home> Yeah for tapping you probably want a much higher res encoder
[21:04:34] <andypugh> Worst-case it could be out by a quarter-pitch, and that sounds bad.
[21:04:48] <Aero-Tec> V belt but have gears that turn with the spindle so I could do a magnetic encoder
[21:05:30] <pcw_home> Steel gears?
[21:05:35] <Aero-Tec> yes
[21:05:40] <andypugh> Aero-Tec: https://picasaweb.google.com/108164504656404380542/CNCUnsorted#5770736261517681954 and the following few pictures
[21:05:44] <Aero-Tec> it is a big lathe
[21:06:53] <Aero-Tec> biggish
[21:06:57] <andypugh> You might spot that there are two versions. First a 180 degree quadrature encoder, then a more conventional 90 degree one :-)
[21:07:04] <pcw_home> Yeah a couple biased hall effect sensors with 1/4 tooth spacing offset would do
[21:07:33] <pcw_home> well 180 is 1/2 of a differential encoder
[21:09:28] <andypugh> Aero-Tec: These appear to be the only suitable sensor (unless you add your own magents to normal hall sensors). http://www.ebay.com/itm/ATS667-ATS667LSG-ATS667LSGTN-T-Gear-Tooth-Sensor-IC-/110725022530?ssPageName=ADME:L:OC:GB:3160
[21:10:38] <andypugh> pcw_home: Have you ever seen any alternatives?
[21:12:15] <pcw_home> No though you would think it would be more common
[21:13:11] <pcw_home> Allegro has a few similar parts
[21:19:44] <mevon_> whole bunch of nice goodies in the simulated machines
[21:19:55] <pcw_home> ATS627 seems similar
[21:20:36] <skunkworks> mevon_, linuxcnc is very powerfull..
[21:20:48] <skunkworks> mevon_, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39q6kvrSBSk
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[21:22:09] <andypugh> Maybe Allegro have a strong patent?
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[21:22:38] <mevon_> anyone has setup their machine with virtual limit switches?
[21:23:00] <mevon_> simulated limit and home
[21:23:06] <andypugh> why would you want to?
[21:23:15] <mevon_> i know right :P
[21:23:18] <mevon_> but
[21:23:42] <mevon_> Im just wondering how kinuxcnc is working with the switches
[21:24:05] <mevon_> is it in the ini file?
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[21:25:00] <andypugh> If you tried a real machine with simulated switches it would just move in one direction for a fixed length of time until the simulated limit switch component triggered. Then it would call whatever random position is was in "home". You are better with no home switches than simulated ones.
[21:25:04] <mevon_> HOME_IGNOR_LIMITS
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[21:25:26] <mevon_> andy ok got it
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[21:25:47] <andypugh> HOME_IGNORE_LIMITS is for ignoring limit switches when homing. This lets you use one pin for all limits and all homes on all axes.
[21:26:17] <andypugh> (But does mean you can only home one axis at a time)
[21:26:32] <mevon_> ok ok i have limit switches physicly connected to the arduino
[21:27:14] <mevon_> the thing is, the arduino sketch only checks for limits before sending a jog to() command
[21:27:43] <mevon_> i find it odd how its implemented
[21:28:17] <mevon_> but it seems to only send feedback when the state of the switches change
[21:28:35] <pcw_home> MLX90217 (and your own magnet)
[21:28:48] <mevon_> i wanted to implement software limits so i could go to my limits
[21:28:59] <mevon_> without overstepping them
[21:30:02] <mevon_> simulated ones seemed nice but since the dimensions are set in the ini file, i bet emc wouldnt go over those right^
[21:30:09] <mevon_> right?
[21:30:53] <Aero-Tec> ok in the vid they had per fetching tool changes
[21:30:55] <andypugh> You would just confuse LinuxCNC.
[21:31:02] <Aero-Tec> how did they do that?
[21:31:32] <Aero-Tec> the tools will move around on the tool chain
[21:31:49] <andypugh> mevon_: Just mark some lines on the machine, jog there, then press the home button. (that makes your eyes into home switches, in effect).
[21:32:00] <pcw_home> code rings on the tool holders
[21:32:08] <Aero-Tec> so you would have to update the tool table for each tool change would you not?
[21:32:23] <mevon_> ok thannks for the advice this is really helpful to me
[21:32:44] <andypugh> Aero-Tec: LinuxCNC can be configured to pre-fetch the tool on the T command, and do the change on the M6. So you put a T for the next tool immediately after a toolchange.
[21:32:48] <Aero-Tec> code rings on the tool holder?
[21:33:25] <andypugh> That is how the machine knows which tool is about to enter the tool change position.
[21:33:51] <Aero-Tec> ok but how does EMC keep track of where the tools are on the chain?
[21:33:54] <mevon_> andypugh, would you think this would be useful? HALFILE = axis_manualtoolchange.hal
[21:34:12] <andypugh> mevon_: If you have changeable tools, then yes
[21:34:46] <mevon_> I do to make diff hole sizes
[21:34:58] <andypugh> Though you will see there is not much in that file, and you can combine it with the main HAL file. (Stepconf probably already put it in there)
[21:34:58] <mevon_> thanks
[21:35:00] <Aero-Tec> I can see the fist time the tool is used, but each time a tool is used it is moved on the tool chain to a new location
[21:35:06] <pcw_home> Since they are all labeled LinucCNC need not keep track of where they are
[21:35:09] <mevon_> ok
[21:35:24] <Aero-Tec> lol
[21:35:32] <Aero-Tec> your joking right?
[21:35:42] <Aero-Tec> how does it read the tool
[21:35:54] <andypugh> No, there are mechanical bar-codes on the tools.
[21:35:59] <pcw_home> code rings
[21:36:03] <Aero-Tec> and how do you set up EMC to read the tool?
[21:36:10] <andypugh> And an array of microswitches that watch them go past.
[21:37:12] <andypugh> However…. That's not the usual way to do it. LinuxCNC can remember where in a carousel it put a tool, and can go there for it next time it wants it. skunkworks has a very unusual machine. It's probably one of the oldest CNC machines still running.
[21:38:22] <Aero-Tec> there sure are some very cool EMC controlled CNCs
[21:38:56] <Aero-Tec> one has to be impressed by it all
[21:39:19] <andypugh> I would hazard a guess that the K&T toolchanger uses something like: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man9/match8.9.html
[21:39:46] <skunkworks> acutally do it in ladder
[21:40:12] <skunkworks> &1 - &2 - &4 - &8 and so on
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[21:40:17] <andypugh> I ought to try ladder, but I have so far not seen the need.
[21:40:52] <skunkworks> I did the tool chain/changer in ladder - the spindle gearbox in comp...
[21:41:25] <andypugh> You should use APL code somewhere, just to match the age of the machine.
[21:41:46] <Aero-Tec> so why not use EMCs way of being able to keep track of tools? why do tool encoding?
[21:42:24] <skunkworks> because it works as is.. There is no way to know what pocket is where in the current scheme
[21:42:25] <andypugh> That was what the machine was built with. I suspect that the machine has no feedback of absolute chain position, just what tool last went past.
[21:43:57] <Aero-Tec> also if EMC is tracking tools in the changes, does it keep tack of the new tool locations after a reboot of EMC?
[21:44:25] <skunkworks> doesn't need to
[21:44:32] <Aero-Tec> cool
[21:44:57] <Aero-Tec> on yours no as the tool is labeled
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[21:45:09] <skunkworks> I call for tool 4898 and it runs the chain around scanning for one that matches that number.
[21:45:36] <Connor> barcode or something ?
[21:45:40] <cradek> but for some machines, like mine, yes it does keep track
[21:45:42] <skunkworks> mechanical barcode
[21:45:50] <skunkworks> right
[21:46:01] <Aero-Tec> but if EMC was tracking the tools through each tool change, is the new location of the tool recoded so if you have a power outage or what ever, the new tool locations are remembered?
[21:46:21] <cradek> yes the tool table always contains the current tool<->pocket mapping
[21:46:32] <skunkworks> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nuRea6615s
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[21:50:11] <Aero-Tec> so what does a mechanical bar code look like, and can you make your own tool holder labels or are you stuck with finding old holders made for that machine?
[21:51:46] <skunkworks> we have quite a selection of tooling for that machine. It is its own design though - rarely find more.
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[21:54:43] <mevon_> andypugh, so basicly i shouldnt be unliking in my .hal things that havent been linked before
[21:55:25] <mevon_> and linking them there should be the first time it was linked right?
[21:55:46] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[21:55:58] <Aero-Tec> one way to set up a single encoder with index is to have the index slot larger then the other slots
[21:56:34] <Aero-Tec> that was how mach was supposed to work
[21:56:47] <Aero-Tec> I even cut the encoder disk for that
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[21:57:22] <Aero-Tec> but then found out that mach did not finish setting that up so had to block off 3 slots
[21:57:58] <Aero-Tec> you have 4 slots in the disk but one is larger then the rest
[21:58:11] <Aero-Tec> the index one is the larger one
[21:58:32] <Aero-Tec> not sure if that could be done with EMC or not
[21:58:39] <PCW> Andy volunteered to add the feature to the encoder comp :-)
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[22:00:26] <Aero-Tec> if that could be done with EMC then my encoder disk is ready to go, just have to unblock the 3 slots
[22:00:56] <PCW> as long as its for threading, it should be OK not sure how well that will do with quadrature or reversals
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[22:02:37] <Aero-Tec> true it would not give direction, but would give good spindle speeds during threading
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[22:06:25] <Aero-Tec> BTW, how I am sure that Mach only looks at the index at the start of the threading run is I had a encoder problem that made the indicated speeds erratic, and Mach would cut the whole thread at the start speed no matter how much it changed during the thread run
[22:06:25] <PCW> how wide are the slots" LinuxCNCs width sensing resolution would depend on the base thread and spindle RPM and slot width (% of circumference)
[22:06:34] <andypugh> mevon_: Yes. Basically that custom.hal provided with the arduino driver is doing a lot of rewiring.
[22:08:00] <Aero-Tec> the index was 2 times the other ones if mem serves me
[22:08:24] <PCW> I guess the ideal would be 25% slot 75% blocked except index which would be 50%
[22:08:34] <PCW> slot
[22:08:52] <Aero-Tec> my slots are smaller then that
[22:09:00] <lwizardl> anyone here know if one of these http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Portable-Storage-Food-Bags-Heat-Handheld-Instant-Sealer-Instant-Food-/310362516805?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item48430c2d45 would seal the anti-static bags that ship with pc parts ?
[22:09:06] <mevon_> thanks andy, I learn fast when explained for a long time :PP
[22:09:38] <Aero-Tec> would be nice to use the whole encoder
[22:09:48] <PCW> pink bags probably
[22:09:53] <Aero-Tec> single opto
[22:10:11] <lwizardl> Aero-Tec, what about those silver bags like HDD's ship in
[22:10:34] <Tom_itx> probably would
[22:10:59] <Tom_itx> i don't seal em, just fold em over
[22:11:02] <Aero-Tec> what about them?
[22:11:11] <PCW> how fast do you thread?
[22:11:12] <lwizardl> k for about $3 worth a test
[22:11:26] <Aero-Tec> not fast
[22:11:27] <Tom_itx> i'd think so
[22:11:32] <Aero-Tec> will have to check
[22:11:52] <Tom_itx> lwizardl if you're gonna do that you should check on getting the bags in a roll
[22:11:55] <PCW> we seal em closed with a label
[22:11:59] <lwizardl> Tom_itx, Yeah that is what i usually do also but I have some parts that will be stored for long term and want to make sure they stay safe
[22:12:13] <Tom_itx> in the us?
[22:12:22] <Tom_itx> uline has alot of shipper supplies
[22:12:30] <lwizardl> Tom_itx, yeah looking at those from a few shipping companies like uline
[22:12:35] <lwizardl> Tom_itx, yup
[22:12:45] <Tom_itx> i get my padded envelopes from them
[22:12:51] <Tom_itx> #0 size iirc
[22:13:06] <Aero-Tec> so would it be easy to set up EMC to use my encoder?
[22:13:10] <Tom_itx> mouser was cheaper on the silver bags
[22:13:16] <PCW> Aero-Tec: how fast(RPM) do you thread
[22:13:25] <PCW> ?
[22:13:29] <Aero-Tec> 4 slots with one of them being 2 time the other ones and index
[22:13:39] <Aero-Tec> will check
[22:13:43] <jdh> does the current livecd have the latest linuxcnc?
[22:14:10] <cradek> no, you can always just run the updates to get it
[22:14:37] <jdh> but, it is 2.5 now, not 2.4?
[22:14:43] <cradek> yes
[22:14:53] <Tom_itx> it keeps asking me if i want to update the OS
[22:15:03] <jdh> my old livecd + updates is fine then?
[22:15:21] <Tom_itx> if it's 2.5
[22:15:55] <Aero-Tec> 320, 470, 690
[22:16:08] <Aero-Tec> would be one of them
[22:16:12] <jdh> I shoudl have spent $10 more on the case, this PSU looks like crap
[22:16:18] <Aero-Tec> depending on what I am cutting
[22:16:28] <PCW> Aero-Tec: how fast is you base thread?
[22:16:53] <Aero-Tec> thread pitch?
[22:17:04] <Aero-Tec> not sure what you asking with base thread
[22:17:19] <PCW> in your .ini file
[22:17:19] <Aero-Tec> what is a base thread?
[22:17:35] <Aero-Tec> oh
[22:18:01] <Aero-Tec> 25K if IIR
[22:18:07] <Aero-Tec> can check
[22:21:54] <Aero-Tec> yes
[22:21:58] <Aero-Tec> 25000
[22:22:23] <Aero-Tec> can get the specs of the encoder disk as well
[22:22:27] <PCW> 25000 ns?
[22:22:58] <Aero-Tec> in the INI the base period is 25000
[22:23:23] <Aero-Tec> not sure what unit is used
[22:23:30] <Aero-Tec> how can one tell?
[22:23:36] <mevon_> andypugh, Ive commented out the unlinks and I get this error now "custom.hal:85: Pin 'axis.0.neg-lim-sw-in' does not exist"
[22:24:00] <PCW> OK 40 KHz so at 690 RPM you have about 3500 sample points per turn
[22:24:01] <PCW> so you have to have enough sample points during the slots
[22:24:03] <PCW> to reliably detect the difference in the slots
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[22:24:40] <PCW> seems easy actually
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[22:28:16] <Aero-Tec> I have silver ducting tape blocking the slots
[22:28:22] <PCW> no good for for tapping however
[22:28:41] <Aero-Tec> would be cool to use it like it was designed
[22:29:08] <Aero-Tec> but would be better single point threading right?
[22:29:49] <Aero-Tec> with mach I had to do a whack of finishing passes to get the thread to be good enough
[22:29:57] <PCW> Yes should be (but still need mods to the encoder comp to work)
[22:30:21] <Aero-Tec> and some time I would see it take a bite that was to big
[22:30:22] <PCW> basically Andy's missing tooth index
[22:31:58] <Aero-Tec> so whats my next step to set this up?
[22:32:17] <Aero-Tec> I am still very new to all this
[22:32:59] <Aero-Tec> I would really like to have active tracking during the threading
[22:33:35] <Aero-Tec> and to have more then just index would be great
[22:36:09] <PCW> The easiest thing is probably to add an index sensor/deeper slot
[22:36:10] <PCW> Other wise you have to wait for someone to get interested enough to write the code
[22:43:47] <Aero-Tec> would be easier to add the gear tooth sensor
[22:44:06] <Aero-Tec> but thanks for your interest in this
[22:45:25] <Aero-Tec> how hard is it to learn programming EMC?
[22:45:34] <Aero-Tec> I have written programs
[22:45:58] <PCW> gear tooth sensor would be higher resolution as well
[22:46:04] <Aero-Tec> is there a programming manual for how to program EMC?
[22:48:01] <Aero-Tec> yes and I can do quadrature with it so rigid tapping as well
[22:48:23] <PCW> Not really but for this level (Hal Components) I would just look at the existing ones for guidance
[22:50:08] <PCW> yes you can do quadrature with 2 sensors a say 2 1/4 tooth pitch apart
[22:51:32] <PCW> (N+ 1/4)*tooth_pitch apart
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[22:57:46] <andypugh> mevon_: Sorry, I was elsewhere
[22:57:59] <andypugh> Did you figure out that missing pin?
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