#linuxcnc | Logs for 2012-11-05

[00:00:14] <pfred1> so change the window manager
[00:00:25] <pfred1> you don't need to change a whole distribution to do that
[00:00:46] <pfred1> apt-get install fluxbox
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[00:01:02] <pfred1> doesn't get much more industrial looking than that
[00:04:03] <Kirk_Wallace> That may be the way to go. Take the standard install and unplug the window manager, but I don't know enough at the moment to decide. I've tried the kiosk example, short of RTAI and LinuxCNC, and so far I can follow the logic.
[00:06:28] <Kirk_Wallace> Also, a convenient Debian install would be nice to have. Ubuntu is beginning to feel a little fluffy.
[00:06:49] <pfred1> changing the window manager would go a long way towards declawing it
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[00:10:50] <toastydeath> you're going to have to make an ncurses interface if you want that real industrial feel
[00:11:28] <Kirk_Wallace> Declawing the standard install looks daunting. ps -e shows a lot of Xorg and gdm'y things going on. With the kiosk example, there is only gdm and matchbox showing up in the task list.
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[00:15:16] <Kirk_Wallace> Ncurses would not be so bad in my opinion.
[00:15:51] <toastydeath> ncurses would be amazing
[00:18:00] <Kirk_Wallace> So far, do Squeeze/kiosk/foreign LinuxCNC install, or gut the standard install and try to stamp out all the bugs that pop up?
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[00:21:27] <Kirk_Wallace> Gotta go.
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[00:56:03] <skorket> hey, I know this is not linuxcnc specific, but maybe you guys won't mind me asking anyway. I have a zen toolworks 7x7" kit and I notice that it's a bit 'squeaky' in places. Do you guys have recommendations on how to fix that? Oil? If so, what type?
[00:57:11] <jdh> what is squeaking?
[00:57:37] <skorket> When it passes in certain places. It's a lead screw system with anti-backlash nuts on two linear rails (two rails + leadscrew per axis)
[00:57:59] <skorket> I assume it's the lead screw and the anti backlash nut at certain points in its path...
[00:58:41] <jdh> I spray balscrew lube on my acme screws
[00:59:00] <cradek> is the leadscrew smooth? some acmes are pretty rough when new.
[00:59:31] <skorket> jdh, link?
[00:59:34] <cradek> I've put my 1/4-16 acme rod in the drill and cleaned it up with steel wool
[00:59:42] <skorket> cradek, it's started happening recently. I've had it for a couple of months
[00:59:46] <cradek> ... on a setup like you're describing with plastic nuts
[00:59:51] <cradek> oh, hmm
[00:59:57] <skorket> they're metal...
[01:00:02] <jdh> just a spray can of nook ball screw lube
[01:00:05] <toastydeath> disconnect the leadscrew and make sure it's the screw and not the ways
[01:00:17] <roh> we use thick yellowish grease on the ballscrews and slides
[01:00:19] <toastydeath> if it's the screw for sure, use heavier lube
[01:00:20] <jdh> could be squeakingdue to binding
[01:00:26] <cradek> oh it's metal on metal? you sure need lube then
[01:00:38] <skorket> jdh, e-100, e-900?
[01:00:44] <Valen> we have an oiler well sorta ;->
[01:00:57] <Valen> syringe with aquarium hosing leading to the nuts
[01:01:09] <toastydeath> if heavier lube doesn't work, clean the screw off in alcohol and put some lapping compound on the thing
[01:01:18] <jdh> 900 but just because I already had it
[01:01:20] <Valen> wood screw crushing the hose sets the rate
[01:01:20] <toastydeath> run the nut back and forth with as even pressure as oyu can manage
[01:01:25] <jdh> it's really light
[01:01:33] <toastydeath> push one way, then the other
[01:01:39] <toastydeath> so both faces of the thing get lapped.
[01:03:45] <skorket> any preferred place to purchase?
[01:04:08] <jdh> I got two cans with a used lathe I bought
[01:04:49] <cradek> out of pure laziness I put way lube on the acme screws as well as the ways
[01:05:05] <cradek> it seems fine
[01:05:11] <toastydeath> that's what every big machine does
[01:05:17] <cradek> nuts also 'slide' I guess
[01:05:38] <cradek> toastydeath: that's a good point
[01:06:04] <roh> hm? metal on metal? what else?
[01:06:25] <roh> i mean.. on ballscrews and slides
[01:06:32] <cradek> when he said anti-backlash for a small machine I assumed delrin or some other plastic
[01:06:55] <roh> aah.. so no ballscrew but trapezoid ones?
[01:06:56] <cradek> it's not ballscrews
[01:06:57] <toastydeath> oh, if it's plastic do not use lapping compound
[01:07:22] <jdh> or you could lap forever
[01:07:32] <cradek> s/could/will/
[01:07:46] <cradek> he said it's metal, fwiw
[01:07:50] <toastydeath> the leadscrew will be mirror smooth
[01:07:56] <toastydeath> metal, awesome
[01:08:12] <toastydeath> lapping leadscrews also cuts down on cyclic error, but nobody gives a shit about that on smaller machines
[01:08:17] <skorket> how does a hobbyist like me get their hands on this lubricant?
[01:08:23] <toastydeath> waylube?
[01:08:28] <toastydeath> Vactra #2
[01:08:43] <jdh> skorket: pretty much anything woudl probably work.
[01:08:44] <toastydeath> http://www.use-enco.com/1/1/45214-105480-mobil-no-2-way-vactra-2-machine-oils.html
[01:09:14] <cradek> buy a gallon of vactra2 and never worry again
[01:09:20] <skorket> jdh, I'm really new to this whole thing and I don't even know what I'm looking for. What do the different numbers mean? What should I be looking for?
[01:09:34] <toastydeath> vactra 2 is what you are looking for
[01:09:53] <toastydeath> do not buy vactra 1, do not buy vactra 3. if you use another brand, it will legit say "Vactra 2 equivalent"
[01:10:14] <skorket> toastydeath, why vactra 2 specifically?
[01:10:28] <toastydeath> it's for small machines that do not move very fast
[01:10:33] <cradek> it's venerable
[01:10:49] <skorket> whats the quality in the oil that makes it ideal for small machines that do not move very fast?
[01:11:02] <toastydeath> viscosity
[01:11:03] <cradek> (but if you have metering nozzles it may as well be glue, use a synthetic)
[01:11:26] <toastydeath> vactra 1 is for high speed machines; 1000 inches/min and faster
[01:11:56] <toastydeath> it's less viscous, so it doesn't cavitate or get uneven at high speed
[01:12:07] <toastydeath> but it also has the chance to ground out more often under high load
[01:13:03] <toastydeath> vactra 3 is much much more viscous than vacra 2 and is for machines that are quite large
[01:13:13] <jdh> http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PARTPG=INSRAR2&PMAKA=505-1987&PMPXNO=945479
[01:13:24] <toastydeath> it can still handle a fair amount of movement, but the float height is greater
[01:14:33] <Valen> chainsaw bar oil is usable for way lube
[01:15:03] <jdh> last time I used a chain saw, I put in SAE30 for bar oil.
[01:17:22] <r00t4rd3d> bet that stuck well
[01:17:31] <jdh> seemed to work fine.
[01:17:53] <pfred1> Valen bar lube FTW!
[01:18:12] <toastydeath> most oils work just fine
[01:18:22] <pfred1> well don't use motor oil
[01:18:36] <pfred1> here the stuff is a water magnet
[01:19:08] <jdh> if you have some super precision 25krpm spindle bearings, I might worry about what touse.
[01:19:33] <pfred1> well as long as the motor oil isn't detergent it should be OK
[01:19:56] <skorket> ok, thanks all. Do you think your standard store will carry vectra 2 equivalent oil?
[01:20:08] <pfred1> no
[01:20:11] <skorket> use-enco wants to charge me $10 in shipping...
[01:22:15] <cradek> $10 to ship a gallon of something seems fair
[01:22:22] <cradek> where are you?
[01:22:24] <jdh> weighs 8lbs?
[01:22:42] <cradek> hey it's even on sale!
[01:25:30] <KimK> Wow, I must not get out enough, I've only run across Vactra 2 and Vactra 4. I guess it makes sense that there'd be a 1 and a 3 in there, though.
[01:25:51] <Valen> lol
[01:26:07] <jdh> http://www.ebay.com/itm/221148400712
[01:26:50] <skorket> ok, I just ordered it. Thanks guys, I appreciate it
[01:27:28] <jdh> not sure that is optimal for lead screws though :)
[01:27:36] <skorket> I'll give it a shot
[01:36:37] <Aero-Tec> Lathe Tool Orientation
[01:36:53] <Aero-Tec> can someone explain this better then the manual?
[01:37:09] <cradek> can you ask a more specific question?
[01:37:23] <Aero-Tec> how dos this effect anything?
[01:37:33] <Aero-Tec> what does it do?
[01:38:11] <Aero-Tec> I am at a loss as to what posable good this can have
[01:38:12] <cradek> it lets cutter compensation compensate for the shape of the tool
[01:38:26] <cradek> it's important when a part contour involves a taper, for instance
[01:38:47] <Aero-Tec> ok
[01:39:11] <Aero-Tec> but some of the numbers seam funny
[01:39:16] <Aero-Tec> like 9
[01:39:26] <Aero-Tec> dead center of the tool post
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[01:39:38] <Aero-Tec> what kind of tool is that?
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[01:40:13] <cradek> a lathe with live tooling might use that - think of something like an end mill
[01:40:26] <Aero-Tec> lol
[01:40:28] <Aero-Tec> ok
[01:40:42] <cradek> you don't have to use it if you don't need it :-)
[01:41:06] <Aero-Tec> I have a quick change on my lathe so I would not use that
[01:41:32] <Aero-Tec> 2 looks to be the most used number I would guess
[01:41:55] <cradek> yes I bet you're right
[01:42:24] <cradek> that's for normal turning and facing
[01:42:47] <Aero-Tec> the orientation would be chuck on left, tail stock on right as yu stand in front of lathe
[01:43:04] <Aero-Tec> yes ok so I was right on how to look at it
[01:43:06] <cradek> yes that makes Z to your right
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[01:43:26] <Aero-Tec> Z+
[01:43:32] <cradek> yes
[01:43:35] <Aero-Tec> z runs right and left
[01:43:56] <Aero-Tec> cool
[01:43:58] <Aero-Tec> thanks
[01:44:05] <Aero-Tec> BTW
[01:44:20] <Aero-Tec> I have code for printing out mach tool table
[01:44:54] <Aero-Tec> so for the guys wanting to move from mach and take their tool table with them I have the code for both lathe and mill
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[01:45:27] <Aero-Tec> just in case anyone else is in the same boat I am in
[01:46:30] <Aero-Tec> one other thing, did the tool table for lathe change for EMC?
[01:47:04] <Aero-Tec> the docs say one thing but the tool table seams to be a different format
[01:47:06] <cradek> change from what?
[01:47:18] <cradek> maybe you have old docs? the tool table has changed a few times.
[01:47:27] <Aero-Tec> from what the docs said about the lathe tool table
[01:47:33] <Aero-Tec> ok
[01:47:34] <cradek> now it has letters: T1 P1 X1.23 Z2.34 etc.
[01:47:36] <Aero-Tec> that could be
[01:48:37] <Aero-Tec> is the tool table different for each profile?
[01:48:51] <Aero-Tec> also where do I find the tool table for EMC?
[01:49:19] <Aero-Tec> in the mill I have not used a tool table, but in the lathe I have to
[01:49:31] <Aero-Tec> so not sure about some things
[01:50:16] <Aero-Tec> slao is there anything a noob to EMC need to look out for?
[01:50:30] <Aero-Tec> things that can bite one in the butt?
[01:50:43] <jdh> typos suck
[01:50:54] <cradek> haha that's way too general a question :-)
[01:51:08] <Aero-Tec> switching over from mach, it is a steep learning curve
[01:51:29] <pfred1> LinuxCNC tries not to be Mach
[01:51:48] <Aero-Tec> lol
[01:51:54] <Aero-Tec> good thing
[01:52:08] <pfred1> they came from the same code base originally though
[01:52:11] <Aero-Tec> Mach has not been nice to me at all
[01:52:30] <Aero-Tec> your joking?
[01:52:51] <pfred1> they're both derived from the original NIST EMC code afaik
[01:52:57] <cradek> mach took emc1's interpreter many many years ago
[01:53:07] <Aero-Tec> BTW I am dyslexic, sorry for the wild spelling
[01:53:22] <pfred1> this is IRC spelling rules don't apply here
[01:53:36] <cradek> they have diverged a lot, of course.
[01:53:46] <Aero-Tec> thanks god
[01:53:50] <pfred1> cradek ya think?
[01:54:01] <Aero-Tec> I see hugh machines running EMC
[01:54:08] <pfred1> no they are totally separate projects with different goals
[01:54:12] <Aero-Tec> only toys running mach
[01:54:33] <pfred1> mach targets the low end hobbyist
[01:54:45] <Aero-Tec> I have had mach go nuts on me more times then I can count
[01:55:16] <Aero-Tec> mid production run, running the same code over and over
[01:55:39] <cradek> seems like it's famous mostly for that and the incorrect threads it cuts
[01:56:03] <Aero-Tec> then all of a sudden it take off full speed right through the part, vise, bed or what ever is in the way
[01:56:07] <pfred1> likely none of the mach developers have access to a lathe
[01:56:21] <Aero-Tec> that was the mill
[01:56:25] <cradek> hah
[01:56:38] <Aero-Tec> my lathe is got its own problems
[01:57:02] <Aero-Tec> switching over 100% to EMC
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[01:57:15] <pfred1> LinuxCNC seems to err on the side of caution on all issues to me
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[01:58:25] <Aero-Tec> I was trying to run mach for code I had done in mach and any new stuff in EMC, but that fell through, now I am going 100% with EMC
[01:58:54] <pfred1> I don't think the G Code is 100% compatible between the two
[01:59:14] <Aero-Tec> also mach mill and mach lathe will freeze the computer at times
[01:59:26] <Aero-Tec> some times in mid run
[01:59:38] <Aero-Tec> no it is not
[01:59:44] <pfred1> I've read a little how Mach preempts Windows and it all sounds pretty flaky to me
[01:59:53] <Aero-Tec> that is why I have to rewrite all my Gcode
[02:00:31] <Aero-Tec> I love tons of things about EMC
[02:00:42] <pfred1> I've run some Windows and I've run a lot of Linux and well I haven't seen Linux do much it wasn't supposed to
[02:00:51] <Aero-Tec> just wish the GUI was nicer and more friendly
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[02:01:14] <pfred1> well in X Window you can change your GUI
[02:01:18] <cradek> Aero-Tec: them's fightin' words
[02:01:32] <pfred1> there are dozens of window managers and a couple desktop environments to choose from
[02:01:54] <Aero-Tec> where do I find out more about them?
[02:02:15] <pfred1> http://xwinman.org/
[02:02:16] <Aero-Tec> I am not trying to pick a fight
[02:02:21] <Aero-Tec> far from it
[02:02:49] <pfred1> yeah what window manager anyone likes is perfonal preference
[02:02:56] <pfred1> personal even
[02:03:21] <pfred1> right now I'm running a really oddball one but I don't like a lot of the mainstream ones today
[02:03:38] <pfred1> people say Gnome is going down the drain
[02:03:54] <pfred1> and I'm not too keen on the latest KDE either
[02:04:04] <Aero-Tec> I was talking the gui for EMC
[02:04:12] <pfred1> ih yo ucan change those too
[02:04:19] <Aero-Tec> I like the linux one I have
[02:04:20] <pfred1> the front end
[02:04:36] <pfred1> axis is the popular one
[02:04:55] <pfred1> but there is a TK one and a text one
[02:04:57] <Aero-Tec> some, but not any where near where the GUI is for mach
[02:05:18] <pfred1> cradek didn't you write axis?
[02:05:42] <Aero-Tec> I am using axis I believe
[02:05:53] <pfred1> yeah axis is the default today
[02:06:04] <pfred1> but the older ones are still kicking around
[02:06:23] <pfred1> I can't use axis because something is going on with my GL libraries
[02:06:55] <Aero-Tec> one of the cool things about mach is you can change just about anything in the GUI
[02:07:12] <pfred1> you can change anything in LinuxCNC too
[02:07:23] <Aero-Tec> you can make as many custom screens as you want
[02:07:27] <pfred1> but you have to know how to code in order to do it
[02:07:41] <Aero-Tec> I can code some
[02:07:57] <Aero-Tec> how hard is it to make a cusome EMC GUI?
[02:07:58] <cradek> one of the cool things about linuxcnc is you can fix or change anything, including fixing bugs. the other cool thing is you don't have to, because it actually works right
[02:08:14] <Aero-Tec> lol
[02:08:19] <Aero-Tec> I like that part
[02:08:20] <pfred1> cradek well, that and we have you :)
[02:08:21] <cradek> Aero-Tec: just use it
[02:08:34] <cradek> Aero-Tec: worry about guis later, after you know how to use it
[02:08:34] <Aero-Tec> yes sir
[02:08:37] <Aero-Tec> lol
[02:08:37] <cradek> :-)
[02:08:46] <pfred1> andypugh is like a wizard at adding the add ons
[02:09:30] <Aero-Tec> back to work writing a new tool table for EMC for my lathe
[02:09:40] <Aero-Tec> thanks for the help
[02:09:43] <pfred1> Aero-Tec the thing is there is no limit to how far you can take LinuxCNC
[02:10:04] <Aero-Tec> that is one very cool thing about EMC
[02:10:30] <pfred1> I saw a guy control a washer tied to 3 strings with LinuxCNC
[02:10:32] <Aero-Tec> so customizable for hard ware and how it works
[02:10:58] <pfred1> man he could make that washer move any which way
[02:11:25] <Aero-Tec> any video?
[02:11:28] <pfred1> it was one of the dumbest things I've ever seen but it was cool
[02:11:40] <pfred1> yeah it is on youtube
[02:11:57] <pfred1> I see if i can find it
[02:12:13] <cradek> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80YhX73DuSg
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[02:13:27] <pfred1> that isn't it
[02:13:45] <cradek> yes, but it's better
[02:14:30] <pfred1> nah the guy who wrapped the strongs on the stepper motor shafts then had them tied to a washer is hilarious
[02:14:37] <pfred1> nah the guy who wrapped the strings on the stepper motor shafts then had them tied to a washer is hilarious
[02:14:50] <cradek> yeah, it's the same idea, but not so funny/silly
[02:15:27] <pfred1> LinuxCNC runs hexabots too doesn't it?
[02:15:35] <cradek> sure
[02:15:39] <pfred1> those are always pretty funny
[02:16:16] <pfred1> I vaguely remember seeing a big blue one
[02:16:35] <cradek> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAPTdw_BTF0
[02:16:40] <cradek> here is a two-DOF version
[02:16:59] <cradek> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Videos#Robots_and_other_special_kinematics_machines
[02:17:13] <cradek> I think you're thinking of alex's tripod which is listed here, and the links are dead
[02:17:32] <pfred1> this might be funnier than the washer
[02:17:40] <cradek> there are some awesome hexapods listed here
[02:18:14] <pfred1> yeah I'd like to see mach try to run this thing
[02:18:50] * skunkworks_ wants to build a hexapod some day
[02:19:03] <KimK> This is off-topic but do you guys have any advice or suggestions for me on WRT54G's and DD-WRT vs. Tomato vs. OpenWrt ? (I'm searching now, was wondering if anyone had personal experiences to relate?)
[02:19:20] <pfred1> skunkworks_ ever see the one that can walk around and carves a face in styrofoam?
[02:19:38] <skunkworks_> I don't consider that a hexapod
[02:19:45] <pfred1> it was made by the same guy that made the props for that horror movie gene simmons was in
[02:20:04] <pfred1> yeah it doesn't run EMC I don't think it is still pretty neat though
[02:20:06] <cradek> KimK: check your hardware revision to see how much ram and rom you have, then decide
[02:20:26] <cradek> KimK: they vary a lot, from nice (some of the GS) to unusable
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[03:11:40] <r00t_droid> :D
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[07:55:50] <DJ9DJ> moin
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[08:49:13] <Loetmichel> mornin'
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[12:47:23] <ktchk> plasma thc stand-alone or software?
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[14:05:34] <pferrick> hi, just installed xchat and want to make sure its working...!
[14:06:02] <alex_joni> it's not ;)
[14:08:16] <pferrick> Have to get to work, so I'll save my question for later...
[14:09:55] <archivist> dont keep us in suspense!
[14:10:23] <pferrick> Ok, here's a quick version: I'm getting hesitation on homing moves, and (often) a complaint about the "home switch being inactive before start of latch move"
[14:11:57] <pferrick> This "stuttering" does not happen during regular moves. The problem cropped up while I was messing around with the config files, so I eventually created a fresh config using stepconf. But I still have the problem.
[14:12:49] <pferrick> Basic question: what could cause hesitation in homing moves but NOT jogs?
[14:13:15] <archivist> I have been to lazy to fit switches so far but one sets a small offset when using the same switch for home and limit
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[14:14:42] <pferrick> yeah, i have home_offset in there. It's worked fine for a long, long time. I would suspect the parport itself, except regular moves are fine.
[14:16:31] <pferrick> Now I really gotta get going- I'll check in later. Thanks.
[14:18:25] <alex_joni> most likely the switch itself?
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[14:19:51] <cradek> yes that error means you have a problem with what the home switch is reporting
[14:19:59] <cradek> you should use halscope to see what it's doing
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[16:44:25] <tjb1> What a wonderful day
[16:44:42] <JT-Shop> raining and cold...
[16:45:21] <tjb1> Not hereā€¦I just stayed up til 5 am staring at the ceiling then got up at 7:30
[16:46:19] <tjb1> 2 classes left :(
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[16:50:01] <tjb1> JT-Shop: Is your plasma torch cable run through the chains or do you have a boom for it?
[16:52:32] <JT-Shop> http://imagebin.org/234738
[16:53:00] <tjb1> That arm rides with the gantry?
[16:54:56] <JT-Shop> it just follows it around
[16:55:08] <tjb1> Oh is it fixed in the corner then
[16:55:23] <JT-Shop> yea it swivels in the corner
[16:56:09] <tjb1> Were trying to get one working on mine, we have it in the middle but if the torch moves a certain way the cable gets behind the motor then it will get pulled going to a corner
[16:56:13] <tjb1> Still working that out
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[16:57:09] <JT-Shop> vise grips are your friend while you sort that out, I assume as big as your table is if you use a setup like mine it would need to be attached to the gantry
[16:58:00] <tjb1> i just need to find a way to get the cable held above the motor
[16:58:13] <tjb1> its held below it now so it swivels around it
[17:22:11] * JT-Shop pressure tests the 40 gallon tank for the plasma cutter
[17:22:45] * syyl_ws takes cover
[17:23:01] <JT-Shop> 10psig
[17:23:38] <syyl_ws> ah ok, thats not dangerous
[17:23:59] <JT-Shop> took a while to put 10psig in through a shrader valve
[17:23:59] <syyl_ws> no need for cover
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[17:27:48] <JT-Shop> seems to hold air for the most part except for a tiny bubble on the element seal
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[17:44:03] <WalterN> are there any good 3D CAD programs for linux? (commercial or open source)
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[17:51:17] <cpresser> WalterN: there is heeks-CAD, openSCAD, FreeCAD
[17:51:39] <cpresser> as far as i know CATIA also works with wine (has been a few years since i used it last)
[17:51:58] <WalterN> cpresser: which one has a UI closest to solidworks or viaCAD?
[17:52:18] <cpresser> cant tell since i never used solidworks or viaCAD
[17:52:26] <WalterN> oheh
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[17:52:30] <cpresser> openSCAD has no GUI at all. its text-based :)
[17:52:37] <IchGuckLive> Hi all B)
[17:53:07] <IchGuckLive> openscad is good for moving cad objekts simulation
[17:53:44] <WalterN> heh.. then lets go with: which one has shiny buttons to click on and is easiest to use?
[17:53:56] <IchGuckLive> WalterN sounds Germany
[17:54:37] <IchGuckLive> Best for 2D is to use Librecad 3D heekscad
[17:54:46] <WalterN> ok
[17:54:49] <IchGuckLive> all free to use in 3OS
[17:54:54] * WalterN goes to look up
[17:55:00] <IchGuckLive> im from Ramstein Germany
[17:55:30] <WalterN> what? germany? I'm not from germany...
[17:55:37] <IchGuckLive> WalterN: what is your goal to meet
[17:55:46] <IchGuckLive> wood metal
[17:56:05] <IchGuckLive> mashining or sculping milling or lathe
[17:56:25] <WalterN> well... metal.. or plastic I guess.. w/e will fit in a lathe or mill
[17:56:44] <IchGuckLive> so most 2D shapes
[17:56:56] <IchGuckLive> with a sertain depth
[17:57:04] <WalterN> going to use it for other things mostly for practice
[17:57:13] <WalterN> enh
[17:57:22] <IchGuckLive> practice is best to use this 2 systems
[17:57:40] <IchGuckLive> as they are mainly autocad based Gui oriantated
[17:57:46] <WalterN> 3D starts as 2D anyway
[17:58:01] <IchGuckLive> only at a Nurb system
[17:58:02] <WalterN> o.0 I kind of hate the autoCAD interface
[17:58:19] <IchGuckLive> look at librecad
[17:58:38] <WalterN> was mentioned before that its not 3D
[17:59:42] <JT-Shop> http://imagebin.org/234747
[17:59:44] <IchGuckLive> im a Pro Engineering man so i start 3D and then cut out the part
[18:00:00] <JT-Shop> http://imagebin.org/234748
[18:00:10] <IchGuckLive> JT-Shop: REPRAP
[18:00:16] <JT-Shop> lol
[18:00:39] <IchGuckLive> ah 2nd got the clue
[18:01:07] <IchGuckLive> this will end up in a nice steel fence
[18:01:12] <WalterN> cpresser: http://code.google.com/p/heekscad/wiki/UbuntuInstallation lol... 2011..
[18:01:14] <IchGuckLive> or even car gate
[18:01:46] <IchGuckLive> WalterN: for your need it is the repro packet
[18:02:04] <IchGuckLive> version 0.18 is good enove to start
[18:02:06] <WalterN> ..?
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[18:02:18] <IchGuckLive> synaptic
[18:02:22] <WalterN> oh
[18:02:33] <IchGuckLive> WalterN: 10.04 ?
[18:02:35] <WalterN> apt-cache search did not show anything useful
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[18:03:08] <IchGuckLive> there are precompiled
[18:03:28] <IchGuckLive> http://code.google.com/p/heekscnc/downloads/list
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[18:04:00] <IchGuckLive> http://code.google.com/p/heekscad/downloads/list
[18:04:12] <IchGuckLive> WalterN: install cad first
[18:04:38] <WalterN> oh no wonder... it was moved to github
[18:04:40] <WalterN> https://github.com/Heeks
[18:05:04] <IchGuckLive> you do not need the newest as there is only reprap things
[18:05:41] <WalterN> ..?
[18:05:52] <IchGuckLive> 3D printing
[18:07:10] <IchGuckLive> here i made some examples for usige http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAVkVawm6pM
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[18:09:42] <WalterN> heekscad is not in the repos
[18:10:11] <IchGuckLive> the packets need to be downloaded and then installt
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[18:32:14] <andypugh> roh: I accidentally found the other EU Mesa stockist today. They have 5i25/7i76 in stock it appears: http://www.retrofit-plus.at/MESA/
[18:33:01] <syyl> that guy opens and closes his shop every few month
[18:33:06] <syyl> with changing names
[18:33:20] <andypugh> Yes, I suspect he was cnc-ready.at
[18:33:27] <syyl> jep
[18:33:35] <syyl> there i bought my 5i20
[18:33:43] <syyl> took very long time
[18:34:33] <IchGuckLive> agree on that he ships very slow
[18:34:38] <IchGuckLive> i ordert 4
[18:35:16] <andypugh> I ordered a 7i49 from duzi.cz on Friday, shipped today, allegedly.
[18:35:35] <syyl> that sounds better :D
[18:38:03] <andypugh> But if roh is in Germany, he could just pop over the border and collect :-)
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[18:42:47] <andypugh> Hmm, actually, retrofit+ is near Vienna and Duzi is in Ostrava. Both are nearly as far from Deutschland as they can possibly be ans still be in their own countries :-)
[18:45:04] <jthornton> andypugh, did you have to do anything special to run the calculator on your mac?
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[18:47:55] <Loetmichel> re @ home
[18:48:55] <andypugh> jthornton: I never got it working on my Mac.
[18:49:11] <andypugh> NameError: name 'sys' is not defined
[18:49:49] <jthornton> ok I think I fixed that one I was not importing sys in both files
[18:49:50] <andypugh> I fired up a Linux VM to test it, maybe I wasn't clear on that point.
[18:50:07] <roh> well.. i usually use a postal service. traveling is much to expensive
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[18:57:40] <IchGuckLive> roh: where are you in BRD
[18:59:01] <IchGuckLive> im in ramstein RLP
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[20:52:56] <frallzor> ahoyhoy
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[21:03:24] <PCW> its not TLAPD for another 10 months
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[21:48:07] <JT-Shop> 81 members and 41486 guests online
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[21:50:16] <skunkworks_> wow - I just had my wifes HD get get smoked by the power supply.
[21:50:34] <skunkworks_> I found the same model hd and replaced the motherboard. No go.
[21:50:44] <skunkworks_> *circuit board
[21:52:03] <JT-Shop> yuck
[21:52:03] <cradek> huh, I've seen a bad PS blow a motherboard lots of times, but never a disk
[21:52:03] <cradek> but I don't trust disks to persist from minute-to-minute so maybe it just didn't strike me as odd :-)
[21:52:03] <skunkworks_> did a little searching online.. Seagates have a 'bios' chip on them that is HD specific. 8 pin surface mount. swapped that from the bad circuit board to the new one... I am copying as we speak!
[21:52:06] <cradek> dude.
[21:52:15] <cradek> go buy a lottery ticket and a tape drive right away
[21:52:49] <skunkworks_> well - we have been lack luster in backups.. we have one from a few months ago - would have been fine.. just some spreadsheet type stuff that would have been nice to have
[21:53:30] <skunkworks_> honestly - this is about the 6th time I have fixed a hd like that...
[21:53:48] <cradek> I now have all my data at home on zfs raid with routine (hourly) snapshots
[21:53:54] <skunkworks_> did one a month ago that 'just worked' swaping the circuit board...
[21:54:02] <cradek> and of course periodically still written to tape
[21:54:09] <skunkworks_> as long as it isn't mechanical.
[21:54:30] <skunkworks_> cool
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[21:55:31] <cradek> well I'll call you if I ever need help... that's quite a record.
[21:55:43] <cradek> (you'd think it would teach you to make backups, though...) haha
[21:55:47] <skunkworks_> heh
[21:56:03] <skunkworks_> well - the really important stuff is.. (just not the important stuff)
[21:56:34] <cradek> I hate hate hate losing anything. even 5 minutes of work. I just refuse.
[21:57:04] <skunkworks_> heh - how does the snapshot work? seems like it would slow things down.. (how much data are you snapshoting?)
[21:57:40] <cradek> snapshots are instant in zfs. only when you cause new differences does the data "split".
[21:58:10] <skunkworks_> hmm - have to do some researching
[21:59:49] <frallzor> good evening Mr JT-Shop
[22:03:13] <DJ9DJ> gn8
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[22:04:32] <JT-Shop> good evening Mr Frallzor
[22:04:41] <frallzor> weey =P
[22:04:57] <JT-Shop> did you see the 300lb anvil stand?
[22:05:01] <frallzor> me?
[22:05:06] <JT-Shop> yea
[22:05:09] <frallzor> no
[22:05:11] <frallzor> show!
[22:05:15] <JT-Shop> http://gnipsel.com/shop/anvil/images/anvil-stand-01.jpg
[22:05:20] <JT-Shop> http://gnipsel.com/shop/anvil/images/anvil-stand-02.jpg
[22:05:24] <JT-Shop> http://gnipsel.com/shop/anvil/images/anvil-stand-03.jpg
[22:05:28] <JT-Shop> http://gnipsel.com/shop/anvil/images/anvil-stand-04.jpg
[22:06:04] <frallzor> fancy =)
[22:06:36] <syyl> can never have enough c-clamps, ha?
[22:07:13] <frallzor> real men use clamp with their teeth!
[22:07:28] <frallzor> + some proper grammar
[22:07:37] * frallzor is tired
[22:07:39] <syyl> ;)
[22:08:00] <syyl> me too
[22:08:08] <syyl> but almost finished my toolmakers block..
[22:08:08] <syyl> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/24396704/Aufspannw%C3%BCrfel/IMG_0987.JPG
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[22:10:31] <frallzor> I cut some mds in my bandsaw =P
[22:10:35] <frallzor> *MDF even
[22:11:09] <PCW> servo error from latency is relatively easy to calculate for torque mode drives
[22:11:11] <PCW> with known PID gains and axis mass (for a single error)
[22:11:12] <PCW> primary error is from position sample at wrong time,
[22:11:14] <PCW> and incorrect PID output applied for one sample
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[22:12:03] <JT-Shop> aww he left
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[22:12:37] <frallzor> anyone got some experience in machining/engraving glass btw?
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[22:15:02] <JT-Shop> I core drilled glass with grinding compound and a copper tube
[22:15:57] <frallzor> Im going to try and engrave letters into 4mm glass but not sure how to staret
[22:16:52] <PCW> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8RY01M7BFQ&feature=related
[22:16:53] <PCW> somebody doing that
[22:17:07] <lwizardl> so what tools would be the best to make acurate measurements with of producing items with the cnc mill
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[22:19:42] <frallzor> PCW watched that, but seems too easy somehow =P
[22:20:12] <PCW> he doesnt show the broken ones :-)
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[22:21:45] <frallzor> wonder which stepdown one dares to try when engraving
[22:32:59] <JT-Shop> can you engrave glass?
[22:35:05] <frallzor> that video seems to say so
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[22:45:00] <andypugh> JT-Shop: So what does the anvil on your 300lb stand weigh?
[22:45:45] <andypugh> lwizardl: What was the question again? You want to know how to measure the thngs you are making?
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[22:47:09] <lwizardl> andypugh, basically what I'm wanting to know is is there a tool more finely accurate to take measurements then just a standard tape measure.
[22:47:36] <andypugh> A digital Caliper is often useful
[22:47:49] <andypugh> What sort of size do you need to measure?
[22:48:12] <lwizardl> I have one of those but is only does small measurements
[22:48:23] <andypugh> How big do you need?
[22:48:56] <theorb> Tape measures are good for large measurements (rooms), steel rules for medium sizes (things that fit on a desktop), and calipers for small things (bolts).
[22:49:38] <andypugh> You can get digital calipers up to at least 1000mm (40") but they aren't especially cheap
[22:49:39] <andypugh> http://www.machine-dro.co.uk/1000mm-40-digital-calipers.html
[22:50:00] <lwizardl> well right now i'm taking measurements of stuff to make boxes for my stuff. doing measurements mainly of my gaming consoles, computers, etc. but I know that I will end up making a table and desk for someone (already talked to me about engraving them)
[22:50:28] <theorb> lwizardl: Get a decent set of steel rules for that, IMHO.
[22:50:34] <andypugh> I saw this 5 foot micrometer on ebay the other day too: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MOORE-WRIGHT-54-60-COMBINATION-MICROMETER-SIMILAR-TO-MITUTOYO-/190744612617?pt=UK_Home_Garden_PowerTools_SM&hash=item2c6943cf09
[22:50:50] <theorb> I think at 5 foot, it's not really a *micro*meter anymore.
[22:51:22] <andypugh> Boxes I would use a 300mm caliper for. Desks you can use a good steel tape measure.
[22:51:29] <JT-Shop> 300lbs LOL
[22:51:57] <lwizardl> yeah i have this one http://www.harborfreight.com/6-inch-composite-digital-caliper-93293.html
[22:52:23] <lwizardl> brb gotta give someone a ride
[22:54:21] <andypugh> One tool I do rather like (but don't own) is the vernier pi tape, for measuring diameters: http://www.pitape.com/products-circumferencetapes-metric.htm
[22:55:45] <andypugh> I like my 3" caliper, it's rather useful in confined spaces (like on a machine tool)
[22:56:41] <andypugh> Hmm, I think I need a 1000mm one though...
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[22:57:30] <andypugh> No, I just changed my mind :-)
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[23:06:48] <JT-Shop> oh well out of mixed gas... finish welding the anvil stand in the morning
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[23:11:15] <andypugh> I think I should buy that big micrometer to settle the question of whether my sister is over 4'10" as she claims, or under as we suspect :-)
[23:11:35] <JT-Shop> please take some photos of the measuring
[23:13:27] <JT-Shop> http://www.borderagencyscotland.com/?ind2014
[23:13:48] <JT-Shop> andypugh: have you seen this http://www.metalwebnews.com/howto/rolls/BendingRolls.pdf
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[23:16:08] <JT-Shop> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEg5NDZ6rnM
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[23:22:08] <andypugh> Looks like a nice set of rolls, but I can't say I feel the need.