#linuxcnc | Logs for 2012-10-24

[00:01:06] <PCW> They are especially nice when you have multiples of one card type but a nuisance if you have just one (why do you care about a SN if you have one 7I76)
[00:02:15] <JT-Shop> oh crap I broke the posting record
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[00:03:15] <PCW> maybe an option to drop SNs if there's only one card of a type (no idea if thats practical)
[00:04:34] <andypugh> Not without going back to the first one if you find a second one.
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[00:05:09] <PCW> Yeah had a idea it might be awkward
[00:05:39] <andypugh> JT-Shop: How do you mean "record"?
[00:05:50] <andypugh> One-day record?
[00:06:05] <andypugh> Otherwise you break the record every time you post.
[00:06:10] <JT-Shop> well it was 3999 then I made another post so now it is 4000 for me
[00:06:15] <JT-Shop> LOL
[00:06:20] <JT-Shop> yea just being funny
[00:06:35] <JT-Shop> I feel like being silly sometimes
[00:07:23] <andypugh> I am always completely serious. It comes of being a dour Yorkshireman.
[00:07:33] <JT-Shop> so I didn't see the mode being in the config string
[00:07:52] <JT-Shop> I'm usually serious being of English decent
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[00:08:20] <JT-Shop> but the Irish part that gave me red hair makes me silly from time to time
[00:08:58] <JT-Shop> so is my 7i77 not a good example to get the pinout from?
[00:11:18] <JT-Shop> I looked that up by the way
[00:12:52] <PCW> its OK it just does not have the MPG encoder inputs
[00:13:29] <JT-Shop> do I need to send mine back to get updated?
[00:14:18] <PCW> We can, but eventually it should be do-able in Linux
[00:14:32] <JT-Shop> ok, I'll wait
[00:15:21] * JT-Shop thinks it is time to wander inside
[00:16:03] <PCW> the MPG is more valuable on the 7I76 (since it has no spare encoders)
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[00:28:28] <andypugh> JT-Shop: It's my current project. serial-number naming was just a bonus.
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[01:18:33] <Jymmm> http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/tls/3344094016.html
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[01:46:53] <jdh> offer him $300
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[03:44:40] <FinboySlick> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxysfTM95t4 You guys seen that one yet? What a beautiful little thing.
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[03:45:56] <tjb1> http://elmira.craigslist.org/tls/3327892297.html
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[04:05:48] <Jymmm> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/19/donna-radio-caller-deer-crossing-sign-complaint_n_1987405.html
[04:07:38] <Jymmm> Darwin Award Candidate ^^^^^^^^^^
[04:09:36] <r00t4rd3d> working with oak wood sucks
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[05:38:17] <Loetmichel> mornin'
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[06:27:12] <WalterN> any good 3D CAD programs for linux around?
[06:28:55] <WalterN> Qcad... has that actually improved to be useable these days?
[06:29:45] <WalterN> now called librecad evidently
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[07:02:56] <DJ9DJ> moin
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[10:51:28] <jthornton> damm 250 spammers registered last night! WTF?
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[11:17:37] <archivist> jthornton, has the forum been updated yet?
[11:17:56] <jthornton> not that I know of
[11:20:09] <archivist> if those that can dont nor give powers to others, seems a difficult situation not being resolved
[11:21:19] <jthornton> yup
[11:21:23] <archivist> I have experience fixing databases but no powers :(, I couls do a test upgrade here if I had the data
[11:22:28] <jthornton> yea, you need the Dream Host account
[11:22:59] <archivist> I need a backup of the data rather than the account
[11:23:31] <archivist> who keeps backups anyway
[11:23:39] <jthornton> dunno
[11:24:10] <jthornton> I don't have access to the DH account
[11:25:31] <jthornton> I'm sure alex_joni, cradek and SWPadnos have access not sure if anyone else does
[11:29:49] <r00t4rd3d> its stupid simple to update Joomla too
[11:29:56] <r00t4rd3d> couple clicks
[11:30:35] <archivist> but now its jump n versions so may be less simple
[11:30:37] <jthornton> nice to make a back up before clicking
[11:30:59] <r00t4rd3d> arch, nope they have a plugin, updates it from 1.0 to tht newest.
[11:31:43] <r00t4rd3d> http://extensions.joomla.org/extensions/core-enhancements/installers/9332
[11:31:46] <archivist> and plugins that write to its own directory is a well known security problem for any software
[11:31:57] <Thetawaves> is there a chance to move away from joomla?
[11:32:35] <archivist> for what definition of chance
[11:32:41] <Thetawaves> no wonder it broke, it's joomla
[11:32:45] <jthornton> right now the joomla version we use is 1.5.25 and current version is 3.0.1
[11:32:49] <Thetawaves> hehe :)
[11:33:13] <jthornton> Thetawaves, not without the keys
[11:33:55] <Thetawaves> is it a real root server?
[11:34:08] <Thetawaves> can you ssh in and restart mysql?
[11:34:10] <jthornton> what is that?
[11:34:37] <jthornton> I can't, I only have access to the front end
[11:34:41] <Thetawaves> if you can restart mysql, you can root it :-/
[11:35:21] <r00t4rd3d> committing a felony to update the forums seems...... dumb.
[11:35:45] <Thetawaves> why would it be a felony?
[11:35:54] <Thetawaves> it's not against the law to root your own shit
[11:36:21] <r00t4rd3d> well someone does own it techincally
[11:36:27] <r00t4rd3d> but no one here
[11:37:31] <Thetawaves> why don't you send that person an email :P
[11:38:27] <archivist> those people are lurking and their ears will be burning :)
[11:38:39] <r00t4rd3d> rehenry@fast-air.net or stevesng@NEWSGUY.COM
[11:39:29] <r00t4rd3d> someone who knows those guys should email them and give them the link to the Joomla plugin updater
[11:40:46] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.networksolutions.com/whois-search/linuxcnc.org
[11:40:57] <r00t4rd3d> their phone numbers are listed, call them JT
[11:42:14] <r00t4rd3d> "Hi this is BIG JOHN T could you updates our forums plz, kthnxbi."
[11:42:29] <jthornton> wow I have not seen Ray Henry on here in years
[11:43:06] <r00t4rd3d> so you friends with him?
[11:43:11] <r00t4rd3d> email his ass
[11:43:40] <jthornton> I've talked a couple of times on here to him
[11:49:35] <jthornton> dang the BP computer does not show up here, can you refresh the lan from ubuntu somehow?
[11:50:56] <jthornton> ah there it is
[11:53:10] <r00t4rd3d> I emailed them with the plugin link and the plugins makers instructions how to use it.
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[11:55:53] <r00t4rd3d> I honestly cant believe someone on the BOD who has access cant spend a few minutes and update it.
[12:03:23] <r00t4rd3d> http://linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/component/kunena/?func=view&catid=36&id=25740#25740
[12:03:25] <r00t4rd3d> :D
[12:03:41] * r00t4rd3d waits....
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[12:25:58] <r00t4rd3d> http://i.imgur.com/scWCN.gif
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[12:36:29] <jthornton> r00t4rd3d, I don't think anyone with the keys reads the forum...
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[12:37:46] <r00t4rd3d> alex does
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[12:38:43] <jthornton> he's the man then
[12:39:31] <r00t4rd3d> Last Online: 2 months ago
[12:39:33] <r00t4rd3d> lol
[12:42:14] <jthornton> are you holding your breath?
[12:43:08] <r00t4rd3d> seems like epler has high access too
[12:44:11] <jthornton> last time online 6 months ago
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[12:51:42] <jthornton> wow today sunny high of 85f and Saturday sunny and high of 55f
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[13:02:56] <r00t4rd3d> have you seen the pictures of that high speed Canadian police chase?
[13:03:03] <r00t4rd3d> http://i.imgur.com/J8ack.gif
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[13:30:03] <tjb1> Guys look at this "Freakin' huge" cnc router!! http://hackaday.com/2011/09/04/freakin-huge-cnc-router/
[13:30:13] <tjb1> Another reason I am starting to hate HaD
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[13:31:53] <archivist> some amateurs have no clue about size :)
[13:32:05] <r00t4rd3d> size matters
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[13:32:57] <archivist> yup, seems I have a job for tomorrow doing a wide load escort job
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[13:33:35] <tjb1_> What kind of load
[13:34:04] <archivist> a mobile home
[13:34:13] <r00t4rd3d> he is taking his GF to McDonalds.
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[13:34:45] <archivist> gf...neva /me shall remain old free and single
[13:34:47] <tjb11> webchat isnt so hot
[13:35:04] <r00t4rd3d> chatting on a iphone sucks
[13:35:53] <tjb11> im about to switch to my iphone if webchat keeps dropping me
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[13:37:38] <tjb1> And im on phone...
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[13:39:14] <tjb1> But yeah wasnt that router huge?
[13:39:32] <tjb1> Makes r00t4rd3d look like a toy
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[13:41:17] <tjb1_> Seriously?
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[13:46:52] <tjb1> I should send my plasma to hack a day...."Freakin absolutely massive" plasma cutter
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[13:48:38] <tjb1> But then my design would get ridiculed by all of the makerbot idiots that are now professionals in cnc
[13:49:05] <tjb1> Or the reprap ones
[13:49:22] <L84Supper> heh, exactly
[13:49:57] <L84Supper> yet they are incapable of any reliable design
[13:50:46] <tjb1> Yep...why are you using r&p on a 10' axis? Direct belt drive is much better
[13:51:00] <r00t4rd3d> Took some glamour shots of my box: http://imgur.com/a/4biWi
[13:51:35] <L84Supper> nobody even makes a decent extruder, they all look like frankenstruders for school science projects
[13:51:37] <tjb1> Or why arent you using all-thread on your z axis, its much cheaper than acme
[13:51:56] <tjb1> Well the qu-bd extruder is nice
[13:52:54] <tjb1> r00t4rd3d: Thats sexy but I still think the knob is too big
[13:54:21] <L84Supper> freaking huge = 12" x 18", ginormous = 24" x 48", Freakin absolutely massive = 48" x 96"
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[13:54:59] <L84Supper> pretty sure thats the SAE standard :)
[13:57:23] <tjb1> Yep ;)
[14:00:04] <tjb1> Or all the toolbags on HaD that think they are gonna strap a dremel to their 3d printer and mill stuff
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[14:01:43] <tjb1> Im gonna route stuff with my little 1/8" belt drive
[14:03:58] <L84Supper> the general aim seems to be to design printers that are partially printable and the rest has to be cobbled together with materials only available at Ace hardware or similar
[14:05:11] <L84Supper> so most end up looking and working like erector sets or metal tinker toy creations
[14:05:39] <L84Supper> but you can't say that since it's become some sort of religion :)
[14:09:44] <tjb1> Yeah, one piece of crap prints parts to make another piece of crap
[14:10:03] <tjb1> Quality goes down every time lol
[14:11:23] <L84Supper> the only progress has been ARM m3 type all-in-one control boards, but they are $150-200 ea
[14:12:06] <tjb1> Only design I like are the ORD builds, hadron ord is the one I am going to build
[14:12:19] <L84Supper> that can be <$75
[14:13:28] <tjb1> Whats <75?
[14:13:36] <L84Supper> heh, Kelling started selling those
[14:14:21] <L84Supper> http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/3d-printer/3d-printer-mechanical-platform-no-controller
[14:14:35] <L84Supper> Kelling is Automation Technology now
[14:14:52] <L84Supper> he imports from China
[14:15:25] <tjb1> Only one not full of plastic crap
[14:15:55] <L84Supper> tjb1, the ARM M3 reprap control boards could be <$75, they are currently $150-200
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[14:19:54] <Guest71224> hi guys! I'm trying to setup my PID parameters but it seems very difficult!! Anyone has a strategy for overcoming the problem? (Stepper motor with close loop -linear encoder-)
[14:21:09] <cradek> it's very hard to tune steppers with pid. they are very mismatched, since their torque goes down as you speed up. do you have any backlash in the system?
[14:22:02] <Guest71224> I have no significant backlash
[14:22:37] <jthornton> I've heard tell that someone did something like that and that the step count had to be double or more to the encoder count or something like that
[14:23:05] <Guest71224> I am working in velocity control, is it right? Or I have to switch to position control mode?
[14:23:17] <tjb1> jthornton: Your site is down i think
[14:23:29] <jthornton> IIRC they used velocity
[14:23:45] <jthornton> tjb1, it's been doing that this morning off and on
[14:24:01] <jthornton> back on now
[14:24:14] <Guest71224> Are there signifcant difference between velocity and position controls?
[14:24:59] <Guest71224> I have a lot of troubles with P I D FF0 FF1 etc...
[14:26:01] <cradek> I bet you will want to depend heavily on FF1=1
[14:26:39] <cradek> that and a bit of P? or I?
[14:26:42] <Guest71224> now ff1 is equal to "0"
[14:26:52] <cradek> you surely want to use FF1
[14:27:04] <pcw_home> Yes P = small FF1 = 1 nothing else
[14:27:25] <cradek> FF1 gives output proportional to input's derivative
[14:27:31] <tjb1> I still cant load it jthornton
[14:27:32] <pcw_home> This is guaranteed anythin else is simply wrong
[14:28:10] <jthornton> tjb1, not much I can do about it
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[14:28:22] <pcw_home> stepgen with encoder feedback is a nearly perfect velocity mode servo (within .1 %)
[14:28:28] <tjb1> Just lettin ya know ;)
[14:28:41] <jthornton> I just checked and no problems
[14:28:50] <Guest71224> but if FF1 is linked to the derivative parameter, what can it does if D is set to 0?
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[14:29:20] <cradek> D gives output proportional to derivative of ERROR. it is totally different from FF1.
[14:29:35] <pcw_home> are you sure you have the stepgens scale correct? (other wise the FF1 = 1 wont help)
[14:29:55] <Guest71224> my situation is this : P = 8 I = 0 D = 0 FF0 = 0 FF1 = 0 FF2 = 0
[14:30:14] <Guest71224> yes, the scale is correct
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[14:30:56] <pcw_home> As I suggested before you shoul dget it to work almost perfectly with only FF1
[14:31:09] <pcw_home> if you cannot, the scale is wrong
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[14:31:41] <tom3p> cad-schroer new demo 2D views to 3D http://www.cad-schroer.com/Software/MEDUSA4/CADFreeware/1/1420/r/193/?pk_campaign=nd_08_eS
[14:31:44] <pcw_home> There are 2 scales involved
[14:31:49] <tom3p> also ver 5 free demo is out
[14:32:11] <Guest71224> the system seems to be slow and it stops if ferror and fminerror are setted to values near 1
[14:32:49] <pcw_home> are the PID output values limited?
[14:32:57] <Guest71224> yes, to 333
[14:33:14] <pcw_home> why?
[14:33:19] <cradek> what are the units of the pid output?
[14:33:25] <Guest71224> that is 20 meters per minutes, is it wrong?
[14:33:29] <pcw_home> mm/s
[14:34:10] <Guest71224> I think the unit of the control mode (mm/1')
[14:34:19] <Guest71224> yes yes
[14:34:21] <Guest71224> mm/s
[14:34:25] <Guest71224> sorry
[14:35:13] <pcw_home> what is the machine max velocity?
[14:35:40] <Guest71224> i try to use only FF1, just a second!! :)
[14:35:59] <Guest71224> below 20 m/1'
[14:37:39] <Guest71224> using only ff1 the system seems to have an error near 0.2mm
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[14:39:00] <pcw_home> for how big a move?
[14:39:08] <Guest71224> 100mm
[14:39:33] <Guest71224> moving from 200 to 100 it makes 0.2 of error
[14:39:57] <cradek> sounds very promising to me
[14:40:36] <pcw_home> so it you add a tiny bit of P (say .1) what happens
[14:41:16] <Guest71224> so what kind of correction I have to do in your opinion?
[14:41:25] <Guest71224> ok
[14:41:37] <Guest71224> i try
[14:41:38] <Guest71224> :)
[14:43:03] <Guest71224> it makes about .1 of error and then it goes very slowly toward the exact measure
[14:44:02] <pcw_home> well now try P of 1
[14:44:13] <Guest71224> ok
[14:46:40] <Guest71224> 0.2 mm of error, this time the system go on the exact measure and then come back in order to compensate that error
[14:48:00] <pcw_home> not understanding, you mean it overshot?
[14:48:05] <Guest71224> P = 0.1 works well than P = 1
[14:49:13] <Jymmm> Is this 365pF EACH section? http://www.tubesandmore.com/products/C-V365-X3
[14:49:15] <Guest71224> yes but it is not exact, the problem is that the original error (0.2 with P=0) has been reduced by setting P = 0.1 and than it rise again when I set P = 1
[14:49:48] <pcw_home> Thats very odd
[14:50:00] <Guest71224> so P = 0.1 seems to work well than P = 1
[14:50:43] <pcw_home> Are you sure you dont have some backlash or mechanical problem in the system?
[14:50:59] <Guest71224> yes, sure
[14:51:04] <Guest71224> :(
[14:52:08] <Guest71224> probably the error is still the same, the only difference is that with P = 1 the exact measure is achieved faster.
[14:52:36] <pcw_home> are you jogging anywhere near the maximum velocities?
[14:53:55] <skunkworks> I think a look at the ini and hal files might be in order...
[14:54:17] <Guest71224> yes, I'm working with the ini file!
[14:54:50] <pcw_home> Yes that would help Lots of people use this arrangement and its usually simple to tune
[14:55:22] <skunkworks> http://pastebin.com/ them
[14:55:25] <Guest71224> I have done an experiment, starting from 0 i have moved to 100 than 200, 100 and finally 0 again
[14:55:54] <Guest71224> 0->100 error 0.1
[14:56:07] <Guest71224> 100 ->200 error 0.3
[14:56:17] <Guest71224> 200 -> 100 error 0.1
[14:56:24] <Guest71224> 100 -> 0 error 0.3
[14:57:25] <cradek> do you have stepgen max accel and vel higher than the ini maxaccel and vel?
[14:58:02] <cradek> have you plotted ferror during the move, or do you just look at the end of the move? sharing a plot with us would tell us a lot more.
[14:58:03] <MattyMatt> jymmm generally yeah. those ganged ones are for superhets etc so you can tune 2 stages
[14:58:07] <Guest71224> it seems that the correction is applied only to the last part of the path, near the end
[14:58:14] <MattyMatt> or 3 in that case
[14:58:44] <Guest71224> how can I plot ferror??
[14:58:54] <pcw_home> halscope
[14:59:48] <Guest71224> halscope, sorry, I'm newbie :)
[14:59:59] <Guest71224> now I try!!
[15:01:26] <Guest71224> where i can find ferror? within pins, signals or parameters?
[15:02:24] <Jymmm> MattyMatt: ah, ok. ty
[15:04:09] <awallin> Guest71224: the following error is usually the difference between command and encoder inputs to a pid loop
[15:04:32] <awallin> Guest71224: I'm not sure the maximum allowed following error is available from the motion controller...
[15:04:47] <Guest71224> I've found it!
[15:04:49] <Guest71224> :)
[15:05:05] <Guest71224> the problem now is how to read the graph!
[15:05:06] <Guest71224> :)
[15:05:25] <Guest71224> what measure unit are these?
[15:05:36] <Guest71224> 20m/div?
[15:05:40] <awallin> do g1 or g0 moves back and forth and trigger the scope appropriately..
[15:05:49] <awallin> that's "milli"
[15:06:01] <awallin> so 0.020 mm/division of the scope
[15:06:03] <awallin> I think
[15:06:32] <awallin> Guest71224: I have some screenshots in the blog http://www.anderswallin.net/?s=pid+tuning
[15:06:52] <Guest71224> okok
[15:06:53] <Guest71224> :)
[15:07:23] <JT-Shop-2> nice page awallin
[15:08:18] <awallin> JT-Shop-2: thanks, some case-studies in the linuxcnc docs would be nice. With different servo setups preferably (i.e. torque, speed mode etc)
[15:09:12] <JT-Shop-2> someone that knows what they are talking about would have to do that LOL
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[15:10:20] <Guest71224> you are rigth! :D
[15:10:35] <JT-Shop> http://imagebin.org/233106
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[15:10:51] <JT-Shop> http://imagebin.org/233107
[15:11:08] <JT-Shop> http://imagebin.org/233108
[15:11:45] <awallin> did you hit the machine or something where the mouse points to some noise?
[15:11:47] <JT-Shop> I prepared these starting with just P then using FF1 to null out the cruse and FF2 last to take care of over/under shoot
[15:12:04] <JT-Shop> which one?
[15:12:05] <cradek> awallin: that's the cursor
[15:12:29] <awallin> oh, ok :)
[15:13:01] <JT-Shop> in the last one I have ferror selected what does the f(0.54312) = 0.00015 mean?
[15:13:31] <awallin> with a mesa-card and pwm-amps I was never really able to tune out 'glitches' at the beginning and end of the constant-acceleration phases..
[15:14:14] <awallin> maybe that's the cursor reading?
[15:15:21] <awallin> JT-Shop: anything interesting to see if you zoom closer than 5m/div?
[15:16:16] <tom3p> is awallin's 1st video ok for all? my ffox 14.0.1 ubuntu canonical 0.1 wont display nor redirect to google site
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[15:16:54] <awallin> tom3p: google-video may have ended operation altogether... can't remember
[15:17:05] <tom3p> haha thx!
[15:17:44] <awallin> here's a youtube version of that http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Q7wrQY9OPc
[15:17:50] <awallin> I should update the blog post..
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[15:19:23] <awallin> ok, blog post updated. For these kind of videos it would be nice to overlay the current G-code command on the video image..
[15:20:00] <tom3p> awallin, got it thx, is that motor brushed?
[15:20:25] <awallin> yes, iirc they were from dan mauch. came with us digital encoders fitted.
[15:20:56] <awallin> not so great pics over here http://www.camtronics-cnc.com/servo-motors.asp
[15:21:39] <tom3p> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UuHFS0cWxQ&list=UUj3obX1YCAqbhiR6ly5XshQ&index=5&feature=plcp
[15:22:25] <awallin> tom3p: yes, those are the ones. but testing without load isn't really useful for tuning.
[15:22:47] <JT-Shop> it shows my FF1 is a tiny bit high
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[15:23:11] <JT-Shop> http://imagebin.org/233110
[15:23:37] <r00t4rd3d> JT-Shop, http://pastebin.com/J1UNZffj
[15:24:09] <r00t4rd3d> now we know who to corner :D
[15:24:40] <JT-Shop> yea
[15:25:10] <awallin> is that periodic sawtooth related to the ballscrew pitch, or the motor 'cogging' ?
[15:25:22] <JT-Shop> dunno
[15:26:01] <JT-Shop> so yea the numbers f(0.54312) = 0.00015 change with the cursor but what are the numbers?
[15:26:42] <awallin> the first one is cursor position in time from trigger, the second one is the value of the current trace at the cursor
[15:26:57] <awallin> that would be logical anyway
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[15:27:54] <eucalyptus> on ubuntu how to use emc powerpath ?
[15:27:56] <L84Supper> ~20hz sawtooth
[15:29:11] <awallin> eucalyptus: wrong emc?
[15:29:28] <JT-Shop> so is the value the ferror in user units?
[15:29:37] <cradek> eucalyptus: sorry, wrong channel: linuxcnc software is not related to emc.com's products
[15:30:33] <L84Supper> eucalyptus, maybe you're looking for http://www.thegeekstuff.com/2009/09/how-to-install-and-configure-emc-powerpath-on-linux/
[15:30:51] <awallin> JT-Shop: check how high motor-pos-cmd is in relation to your g-code. if you find a factor of 25.4 you are using the wrong kind of g-code :)
[15:32:58] <JT-Shop> awallin: I don't understand
[15:34:04] <awallin> JT-Shop: you run these tests by doing "G1X50" for example. Then if your g-code and your scope are in the same units the red trace motor-pos-cmd should change 50 units (assuming we started at 0)
[15:34:22] <eucalyptus> thanks , this very cool ,
[15:36:37] <JT-Shop> just checking motor-pos-cmd vs joint-pos-cmd and joint is the same as G53
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[15:50:29] <pcw_home> awallin: "with a mesa-card and pwm-amps I was never really able to tune out 'glitches' at the beginning and end of the constant-acceleration phases.."
[15:50:31] <pcw_home> This is basically unfixable without S curve trajectories
[15:52:39] <pcw_home> (infinite jerk tends to excite mechanical resonances as well)
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[15:57:37] <pcw_home> With higher sample rates and FF2 you can get rid of some but the real problem is
[15:57:39] <pcw_home> force being a step function with trapezoidal trajectories
[15:58:47] <awallin> pcw_home: right. do you know anything about the araisrobo branch on github? they claimed s-curve velocities at some point?
[16:04:25] <L84Supper> awallin, have a link to that branch? is it off the main linuxcnc git repo?
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[16:05:31] <awallin> https://github.com/araisrobo/linuxcnc
[16:05:44] <L84Supper> thanks
[16:05:59] <awallin> I haven't looked at that, just heard they were working on s-curve (jerk-limited) traj planning
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[16:07:08] <L84Supper> awallin, I've been meaning to take a look into this but haven't gotten there yet
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[16:14:52] <L84Supper> http://en.araisrobo.com/linuxcnc looks like they sell LinuxCNC with FPGA/USB Interface
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[16:15:55] <L84Supper> LinuxCNC over USB to 7i43 with their own IO boards
[16:16:23] <r00t4rd3d> http://images.summitpost.org/original/185785.jpg
[16:19:13] <TekniQue> was that a bunny snagged by an eagle?
[16:20:27] <L84Supper> Headless LinuxCNC on the Beaglebone http://en.araisrobo.com/a/araisrobo.com/en/linuxcnc/build-for-beagle
[16:24:22] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:32839
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[16:27:50] <tjb1> r00t4rd3d: thats awesome
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[16:39:43] <L84Supper> if you're going to use LinuxCNC over USB what applications can settle for >100ms response times?
[16:43:45] <pcw_home> well you move motion, then eventually everything else to the remote device...
[16:44:04] <L84Supper> yeah :)
[16:44:18] <L84Supper> so the PC is just a UI
[16:44:22] <pcw_home> and you are back where youstarted
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[16:45:40] <L84Supper> i just looked over the Arias tree for a few minutes
[16:47:34] <pcw_home> Although the set of motion thingies that need real time is finite and a good motion
[16:47:36] <pcw_home> RPC API definition and some switchable motion queues might make a remote trajectory generator feasible
[16:52:07] <L84Supper> not sure if they are doing that or are just using linuxCNC over USB to just control a single servo
[16:52:46] <pcw_home> But for a lot of thing (robotics is good example) having a lot of computing horsepower
[16:52:48] <pcw_home> in one place with real time control is ideal
[16:53:27] <pcw_home> they have a multi axis S curve trajectory generator (at least) in the 7I43
[16:53:31] <L84Supper> if forget how much room is left in the 7i43 FPGA for a soft micro without any external RAM
[16:54:14] <pcw_home> we have configs with 3-4 processors so its no real big deal
[16:55:17] <pcw_home> Spartan 6 is nicer in that respect (~twice as much blockram for same price chips)
[16:56:11] <L84Supper> we are just starting to look back into all this as well as using the GPU for trajectory planning and simulation
[16:56:30] <pcw_home> all of our USB configs have at least one processor (LBP protocol parser/low level FIFO interface)
[16:56:56] <pcw_home> (strangely enough there a HM2 USB config set for the 7I43)
[16:57:47] <pcw_home> but honestly USB is a dreadful interface for anything industrial
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[17:02:33] <IchGuckLive> hi all
[17:03:05] <L84Supper> there is much to look back into over the next few months....
[17:05:43] <L84Supper> it will also be interesting to get feedback from machine tool manufacturers that have very little control expertise
[17:06:04] <L84Supper> they just slap on Fanuc, Siemens or Mitsubishi controllers
[17:07:46] <L84Supper> where does LinuxCNC fit in? is it just devs who customize?
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[17:11:10] <L84Supper> will having Comedi and LinuxCNC working smoothly be popular?
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[17:12:36] <L84Supper> HAL interface for COMEDI
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[18:43:07] <JT-Shop> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BraEMAu5UkY&feature=youtu.be
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[18:53:25] <rob_h> at least it can save doing the washing up i guess making a knife and fork
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[19:20:48] <archivist> L84Supper, somebody else got the two working together iirc
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[19:22:56] <L84Supper> archivist, yes, then andypugh had the idea to make a HAL interface for Comedi, it still needs to be written
[19:23:44] <andypugh> I still think it's probably a good idea. I am nowhere near starting.
[19:24:07] <L84Supper> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Debian_Etch_Compile_RTAI#Comedi_support_for_RTAI
[19:24:59] <L84Supper> andypugh, it's one more thing we wanted to take a look at in addition to the simulation and trajectory planner
[19:27:07] <L84Supper> we need all this for more complex 3d printers that combine more than one type of deposition tech
[19:28:51] <PCW> probably also want painting data via encoder count for that as well
[19:30:10] <PCW> or just path velocity if servo thread resolution is good enouigh
[19:30:49] <PCW> also extruders beneifit from lookahead
[19:31:41] <WalterN> oh... I was wondering if linuxCNC knows what direction its facing... eventually I might make an engraving tool and for cutting passes I would want the tool facing the direction its cutting...
[19:32:03] <WalterN> erm, not tool.. make an engraving machine
[19:32:03] <L84Supper> lots of room for tweaking
[19:32:07] <jdh> like a tangential knife
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[19:35:34] <kirk_wallace> I want to set up a glade tab in axis for a lathe which needs to read the tool table to get tool orientation. Is there a set up out there that I can study?
[19:35:50] <andypugh> WalterN: There is a way to fudge it.
[19:36:47] <andypugh> WalterN: I wrote a kinematics module that kept a count of where it was last time through, and set the C axis accordingly.
[19:37:10] <andypugh> The difficulty is that there is no easy way to limit the speed of motion of the C axis.
[19:37:25] <andypugh> If it's a very fast axis then that might be OK
[19:37:55] <WalterN> oh, it might require the spindle to rotate faster than it actually can?
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[19:39:19] <andypugh> Yes.
[19:39:37] <andypugh> Large f-error on that axis might be OK.
[19:39:50] <cradek> imagine you are going along, and then stop, and then go back the opposite way.
[19:40:19] <PCW> limit comp?
[19:40:54] <cradek> limiting it is easy - doing something smart and not breaking the tool at a sharp corner is harder if you do it in "postprocessing"
[19:41:26] <WalterN> well
[19:41:39] <WalterN> at work there is a machine that does what I described
[19:42:02] <andypugh> The optimum way to do it is with an input file filter.
[19:42:05] <WalterN> one of the main problems is that its a plugin for correl draw :-/
[19:42:38] <WalterN> but I kinda want something like that only without the fail for myself :P
[19:43:19] <cradek> yes doing it on the front end is the way to go
[19:43:30] <cradek> then you can lift and turn at a corner, or whatever you decide you need
[19:43:33] <PCW> I guess a filter could flag 180's an lift first
[19:43:33] <andypugh> It's not dreadfuly hard in principle, a single move in C to align with the start of each straight line, and a continuous coordinated move through each arc.
[19:43:56] <cradek> yes the entire motion is easily representable in gcode
[19:44:28] <cradek> and you get the benefit of synchronized moves, for instance a tiny arc will slow down if it needs to wait for C to keep up
[19:45:57] <cradek> but we've talked about this a hundred times, and people really want to try to do something worse instead
[19:47:21] <andypugh> I already did the "something worse" and have concluded that it isn't ideal :-)
[19:47:36] <cradek> :-)
[19:48:12] <andypugh> WalterN: You know that LinuxCNC can automatically filter any file that it opens before execution?
[19:49:02] <WalterN> I've never used linuxCNC or really looked at any documentation or anything
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[20:03:00] <cradek> man what a way to kill an interesting conversation
[20:03:41] <WalterN> lol
[20:04:12] <WalterN> is there a bookmark folder somebody has for other people looking to build their own CNC machine?
[20:06:27] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/diy-cnc_router_table_machines/
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[20:08:13] <WalterN> and I gotta go to work
[20:08:44] <WalterN> http://mylittlefacewhen.com/f/3262/
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[21:00:05] <tjb1> Hello all
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[21:07:37] <tjb1> andypugh: is this related to starting comp files? http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode/m-code.html#_m100_to_m199_user_defined_commands_a_id_sec_m100_to_m199_a
[21:08:03] <tjb1> I save the comp as like M101 and then use one of those examples?
[21:10:55] <DJ9DJ> gn8
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[21:15:29] <andypugh> tjb1: I think you may be confusing two rather different concepts.
[21:16:18] <tjb1> good possibility
[21:16:46] <andypugh> A comp file defines a HAL module, something like the parallel port driver, or the stepgen.
[21:17:21] <andypugh> A user-defined M-code is an executable file which is run only when called from the G-code
[21:17:59] <andypugh> For example, you could rename gedit to M101 and then M101 in the G-code would open gedit. (but that would be sittly)
[21:18:37] <andypugh> What do you want your custom M-code to do?
[21:19:54] <tjb1> Start the THC
[21:20:53] <andypugh> You mean "start" as in load, or "enable"?
[21:21:20] <andypugh> There are three stages to this.
[21:22:04] <andypugh> 1) One time only, compile and install the thcud.comp component:- sudo comp --install thcud.comp
[21:22:13] <tjb1> Ok
[21:22:17] <tjb1> Enable it
[21:22:46] <andypugh> 2) Edit the HAL file so that thcud is loaded (loadrt thcud) and add it to a thread (addf thcud servo-thread)
[21:23:15] <andypugh> You then need to set the thcud.enable pin.
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[21:24:12] <andypugh> This could be done with a custom M-code (#!bin/bash // hamcmd setp thcud.enable 1 )
[21:24:59] <andypugh> Or simply in HAL, perhaps net enablethc halui.program-is-running=>thcud.enable
[21:25:48] <andypugh> Or with a G-doe digital output (M62 P0 and net thc-enable motion.digital-out-00 => thcud.enable)
[21:26:20] <andypugh> I need to turn ofd auto-cornet
[21:26:42] <andypugh> Oh, perhaps it _is_ off and I really did type "G-doe"!
[21:27:24] <tjb1> So I need to make a file named M101 and put "(#!bin/bash // hamcmd setp thcud.enable 1 )" in it and place the file in [Display] Program_Prefix in that ini file
[21:27:37] <tjb1> And then make m102 and thcud.enable 0
[21:28:07] <andypugh> Yes, that will work
[21:28:41] <andypugh> halcmd will work a lot better than hmcmd though (oh dear)
[21:28:52] <tjb1> Can you elaborate the [Display] Program_Prefix
[21:29:00] <andypugh> I can't even spell my miss-spellings correctly!
[21:29:32] <seb_kuzminsky> mmmm, hamcmd
[21:30:08] <andypugh> If you look in the INI file you will see a section [DISPLAY] and in that section is a PROGRAM_PREFIX which is where LinuxCNC looks for executable fles. Put the M101 file in there
[21:30:19] <tjb1> The file location
[21:30:24] <andypugh> hamcmd loadusr bacon
[21:30:29] <tjb1> Like C:/Usr/desktop/ etc...
[21:30:59] <andypugh> Yes, except this is Linux, so probably ~/linuxcnc/nc_files/
[21:32:13] <tjb1> so under PROGRAM_PREFIX I need to put "halcmd loadusr ~
[21:32:22] <tjb1> err...
[21:32:39] <tjb1> loadusr ~/linuxcnc/nc_files/M101
[21:34:25] <andypugh> No
[21:34:57] <andypugh> The #bin/bash etc goes in a text file in nc_files called M101, which needs to be executable.
[21:35:30] <tjb1> So what do I put under PROGRAM_PREFIX
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[21:35:45] <andypugh> The halcmd loadusr part goes in the HAL file of your configuration (under linuxcnc/configs….)
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[21:36:20] <andypugh> You don't put anything under program prefix. That is where you find out where linuxcnc is going to go looking for files
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[21:38:08] <tjb1> Thanks andypugh
[21:38:17] <tjb1> One day I will learn most of this and teach someone else ;)
[21:39:04] <andypugh> Yeah, there is an optimum time to write it all down whilw you can remember why it was hard. I intended to, and missed. Now it all seems to entirely obvious….
[21:40:35] <tjb1> Im gonna go through JTs files and pull all the xml pins out of the thcud so I can understand it better
[21:40:42] <andypugh> seb_kuzminsky: I propose that the board of directors actually direct.
[21:41:33] <andypugh> (well, that might be going a little far)
[21:46:07] <tjb1> andypugh: http://pastebin.com/p8Q0AMuR
[21:47:33] <andypugh> You actually want all the reads first, then the motion, then the writes in the addf section.
[21:47:49] <andypugh> The functions run in the order they are called.
[21:48:03] <tjb1> Thats pulled out of JTs
[21:48:15] <andypugh> (so, thc wants to be before motion)
[21:48:24] <andypugh> Yes, well, JT has it wrong :-)
[21:48:28] <tjb1> http://pastebin.com/Fz2dRzr9
[21:48:50] <tjb1> Do I need the servo-thread for stepper?
[21:48:50] <seb_kuzminsky> andypugh: what direction do you feel is lacking?
[21:49:03] <seb_kuzminsky> tjb1: yes
[21:49:42] <skunkworks_> north?
[21:49:48] <skunkworks_> ;)
[21:50:03] <andypugh> Though with software stepgen you want the parport writes on the base thread.
[21:50:57] <tjb1> Im so confused
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[21:52:06] <tjb1> Why do I need the servo-thread?
[21:52:42] <skunkworks_> the servo thread is where all the motion is calculated
[21:52:51] <andypugh> That is the slow thread where all the hard sums are calculated
[21:52:56] <skunkworks_> (and then sum)
[21:53:09] <skunkworks_> *some
[21:55:33] <tjb1> So I need this - http://pastebin.com/p8Q0AMuR placed into my HAL file
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[21:57:42] <tjb1> Next question and I will go away for a while ;) - Do Ineed the encoder that JT is loading in his HAL file if I am not using the mesa cards?
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[21:59:02] <PCW> no not for thcud
[21:59:23] <tjb1> The encoder is just for the mesa card then
[21:59:51] <PCW> only mesa and a THCAD
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[21:59:53] <andypugh> tjb1: Do you have a Mesa card?
[22:00:10] <tjb1> nope
[22:00:28] <tjb1> Ill have an arduino measuring arc voltage and sending outputs
[22:00:29] <andypugh> Then the addf hm2….. stuff will fail horribly
[22:00:30] <Tom_itx> u should
[22:00:48] <PCW> if you get voltage some other way you dont need it (like a comparator bit for thcud)
[22:01:50] <tjb1> Ill have 2 inputs into the computer, torch up or down
[22:01:54] <tjb1> Thats it
[22:03:04] <PCW> The encoder counter is just used as a frequency counter (THCAD is just a well isolated and protected V-F converter)
[22:03:28] <andypugh> tjb1: Something like http://pastebin.com/f24E4yn0 (but I guessed a lot, and the component might well be called thcud )
[22:04:22] <tjb1> So if the comp is thcud I need to change thc to thcud
[22:04:32] <andypugh> probably
[22:05:12] <andypugh> In fact certainly, because thc already exists as a HAL component and you will end up adding that instead.
[22:06:00] <tjb1> So that thc will = whatever I name the .comp file
[22:07:07] <andypugh> No, and this is a problem I have made for myself a few times
[22:07:34] <andypugh> the file name has to match the name in the "component …." line at the start of the comp file.
[22:07:36] <tjb1> Im currently having java pounded into my skull at this moment too :)
[22:07:59] <tjb1> component thcud "Torch Height Control Up/Down Input";
[22:08:12] <andypugh> If the component name and file name don't match then you get a bunch of not entirely self-explaining errors
[22:09:25] <tjb1> Does // work for comments in linuxcnc?
[22:09:57] <andypugh> That // was my way to put a line break in an IRC message
[22:10:20] <andypugh> The #! and halcmd lines need to be separate lines in the file
[22:10:39] <tjb1> What is comment in linuxcnc?
[22:10:46] <tjb1> I was just asking because // is comment in java
[22:10:48] <PCW> #
[22:10:57] <andypugh> The comment character is different depending on what language the segment is written in
[22:11:11] <andypugh> # is the comment in HAL and in bash.
[22:11:21] <andypugh> / is a comment in C and in .comp
[22:11:45] <andypugh> (there were two slashes there //// IRC ate one
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[22:12:50] <andypugh> PCW: Do the PCI cards report a serial number? Should I consider using it...
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[22:13:33] <PCW> No not ATM but they are "brandable" with a SN
[22:14:07] <andypugh> OK, I will not bother then. It would be of dubious utility anyway
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[22:15:17] <PCW> well is has the same advantage/disadvantage that SNs have on sserial cards: great if you have more then one of the same
[22:15:40] <PCW> just more verbiage if you only have one
[22:17:05] <PCW> but with sserial I/O the need for 2 PCI cards is pretty rare nowadays
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[22:17:49] <tjb1> Thanks everyone
[22:17:56] <tjb1> I have to drive home now…might be on in about 3 hours
[22:18:09] <PCW> long drive
[22:18:13] <tjb1> 109 miles home
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[22:18:26] <PCW> 3 for me
[22:18:31] <tjb1> Im at school :)
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[22:21:35] <uiu80> Hi guys! Anyone of you have had experience with linear encoder and stepper motors (closed loop)
[22:21:42] <uiu80> ?
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[22:23:54] <uiu80> I have some trouble setting pid and ff parameters. I have heard that step+ encoder must be managed with p and ff1 only.. right?
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[22:30:01] <uiu80> :(
[22:31:31] <JT-Shop> 9 minutes is not long to wait for an answer on the IRC
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[22:34:29] <uiu80> Yes but i have to go out and i can not do other...
[22:35:03] <uiu80> So thanks a lot and goodnight
[22:35:09] <uiu80> :)
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[22:40:56] <andypugh> Gah! Missed him.
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[22:53:07] <JT-Shop> if you ain't got time to wait use the forum heh
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[23:02:01] <JT-Shop> http://www.ebay.com/itm/ANTIQUE-1912-INSTANTANEOUS-WATER-HEATER-BRIDGEPORT-TOOL-/190505859465?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c5b08b989
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[23:06:13] <andypugh> Is it bad that I want that?
[23:06:33] <Tom_itx> kinda
[23:07:11] <andypugh> I don't even own a Bridgeport.
[23:07:23] <Tom_itx> andypugh what's your arduino doing with lcnc? reading the hall sensors?
[23:07:30] <Tom_itx> and what arduino are you using?
[23:07:50] <JT-Shop> I thought you might get a kick out of that Andy
[23:07:52] <andypugh> I have a decemilieouavethinginitalian.
[23:08:17] <jdh> new one is 32bit, much faster, has 12bit ADC
[23:09:05] <andypugh> What it does is synthesise a sine wave to excite a resolver, then samples the return voltage synchronously to determine resolver angle.
[23:09:36] <andypugh> Is the clock speed higher? I am not short of CPU, just clock.
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[23:10:47] <jdh> most arduinos have 16mhz crystals, but they can run at 20
[23:12:09] <jdh> new one (DUE) is 84MHz
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[23:14:45] <jdh> I'll be there soon!
[23:14:49] <jdh> <urk>
[23:14:59] <andypugh> Ooh! Oooh! Oooh! 1Ms/S sounds marvellous
[23:16:05] <andypugh> And true D to A would make my resolver thingy much lower overhead too.
[23:16:19] <andypugh> Where's the "buy" butan?
[23:17:41] <r00t4rd3d> will probably take a week or so before you can actually buy one
[23:18:08] <andypugh> I can wait, I have had my Pi for a week and not even plugged it in yet
[23:18:24] <Tom_itx> jdh are those the xmegas?
[23:18:51] <jdh> had mine for 2 months. booted once
[23:19:02] <Tom_itx> the xmegas have dac i believe
[23:19:16] <Tom_itx> and pll clock
[23:20:44] <jdh> I have an ADC for Pi coming
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[23:25:12] <andypugh> Mine might become a security camera controller, but I am also interested in the idea of linuxCNC on Pi
[23:25:29] <jdh> 15-20th
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[23:26:38] <jdh> mine will monitor o2 and pressure and serve it over wifi
[23:27:21] <andypugh> A friend wants to monitor 8 voltages at very low sample rates at very low cost. Any ideas?
[23:28:06] <jdh> arduino + two mcp3424
[23:28:57] <jdh> or just the DUE if 12bits is enough. fixed vref
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[23:55:13] <andypugh> I suspect he wants less hacking than that, but it might work.
[23:55:40] <andypugh> He wants to remote monitor a surprising number of batteries on a boat moored abroad.
[23:58:46] <PCW> battery monitoring is often rather tricky (no common gnd)
[23:59:47] <PCW> a bunch of 1 channel devices on a simple isolated bus might be a good way