#linuxcnc | Logs for 2012-10-12

[00:00:00] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: is there a capctha?
[00:00:04] <andypugh> So, the solution might be to turn off the confirmation email.
[00:00:07] <SWPadnos> I get the bounce notice, since I'm the webmaster
[00:00:09] <SWPadnos> dunno
[00:00:14] <andypugh> The spammers manage to confirm anyway.
[00:00:21] <SWPadnos> andypugh, yes, that would solve my problem
[00:00:22] <andypugh> Yes, there is a Captcha
[00:00:33] <Jymmm> for the forum?
[00:00:49] -!- grummund [grummund!~user@unaffiliated/grummund] has joined #linuxcnc
[00:01:04] <andypugh> I also get the impression that some people never get the confirmation email because _we_ are blocked as a spam site.
[00:01:06] <SWPadnos> it might be disconcerting for people who register though, since they won't have any indication that it worked (except whatever page shows up thanking them at registration time0
[00:01:11] <SWPadnos> s/0/)/
[00:01:25] <Valen> email is used less and less these days
[00:01:43] <r00t4rd3d> I send smoke signals mainly.
[00:01:44] <Valen> if its just a confirmation message not a part of the registration I'd turf it
[00:01:57] <andypugh> It's part of the registration.
[00:02:00] <Valen> i mean all the "cool kids" use forums and such rather than mailing lists
[00:02:16] <SWPadnos> yes, it's a "thank you, we're going to make sure you're real and then approve your registration" message
[00:02:19] <SWPadnos> just a pacifier
[00:02:33] <Valen> so it has a "click here to confirm" in it or no?
[00:02:36] <andypugh> No, they have to reply to be allowed in.
[00:02:56] <r00t4rd3d> you guys talking about the linuxcnc forums?
[00:02:58] <SWPadnos> oh, right, I see that in the original message now
[00:03:00] <andypugh> Yes
[00:03:01] <SWPadnos> yes
[00:03:13] <Valen> ahh, then you cant turn it off
[00:03:15] -!- mhaberler has quit [Quit: mhaberler]
[00:03:15] -!- logger[mah] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[00:03:23] -!- logger[mah] [logger[mah]!~loggermah@mail.mah.priv.at] has joined #linuxcnc
[00:03:32] <r00t4rd3d> alex said he might update them
[00:03:37] <r00t4rd3d> to phpBB :D
[00:03:39] <Valen> perhaps look at adding some outbound mail filters to block incorrect addresses from being sent (if you cant do that in joom)
[00:04:07] <Valen> set a specific "from" address for the message when you send it
[00:04:09] <r00t4rd3d> so then all this nightmare will be over
[00:04:15] <Valen> then filter bounces
[00:04:22] <andypugh> I am not sure that many of us _can_ do anythin in Joomla.
[00:04:26] <Valen> r00t4rd3d: yeah because phpbb gets *no* spam..... ;-P
[00:04:46] <r00t4rd3d> it does but there is mods and stuff to deal with it better
[00:04:47] <SWPadnos> well, the PHP code probably doesn't talk directly to the mail server, so it (probably) can't see the 550 or other errors that the SMTP server sees
[00:04:47] * Valen is getting 10 spam registrations a day for a site thats practically hidden
[00:05:21] <Valen> nah i mean have joomla or whatever just reject any application with a fooo.com email address
[00:05:25] <Valen> malformed addresses
[00:05:28] -!- Nick001-Shop has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[00:05:29] <andypugh> LInuxCNC had 850+ one day last week
[00:05:44] <r00t4rd3d> alex_joni
[00:05:47] <r00t4rd3d> :)
[00:05:58] <andypugh> We did block gmail completely for a while. But I campaigned against that.
[00:06:09] <Valen> with you on that one
[00:06:13] <SWPadnos> there are 9777 messages in my linuxcnc folder, and only a few hundred of them are not these mailer daemon notifications
[00:06:36] <r00t4rd3d> SWPadnos, do you have root access to the webserver?
[00:06:46] <andypugh> Can't we just kill the spammers?
[00:07:02] <SWPadnos> it looks like it started last December, but it's been much worse in the last month or two
[00:07:07] <andypugh> I wouldn't mind if I could even figure out what their intended revenue stream is.
[00:07:15] <Valen> SWPadnos: what if those notifications coming from the signup page were able to be filtered out would that suffice for you?
[00:07:16] <SWPadnos> r00t4rd3d, no, I don't have root, but there are quite a few things I can do
[00:07:26] <SWPadnos> I can't kill the mail daemon
[00:07:27] <Valen> andypugh: they get on the forum then post links to porn sites mostly
[00:07:40] <SWPadnos> they're not from the sign-up page
[00:08:17] <Valen> i mean somebody signs up, it sends a confirmation email that bounces
[00:08:32] <Valen> if we filtered that specific case into the big round bit bucket in the sky
[00:08:37] <archivist> get joomla updated, and get a bot proof captcha
[00:08:53] <Valen> lol they are bot proof for like a week
[00:08:53] <r00t4rd3d> get joomla deleted and install phpBB.
[00:09:03] <SWPadnos> bot signs up with bogus address, joomla sends email using PHP-mail, DH mail server tries to send message to bogus address, DH mail server gets "no can do" error of some sort, DH mail server sends message to webmaster (me) saying "hey, you might want to know that this mail couldn't go through"
[00:09:07] <Valen> joomla and phpbb (should be) doing different tasks
[00:09:09] <andypugh> The only plus in all this is that the bots choose really obviously not-real names.
[00:09:09] -!- ve7it has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[00:09:22] <archivist> phpbb is a pile of steaming... too
[00:09:40] <SWPadnos> joomla and phpBB are pretty irrelevant to this discussion, I think
[00:09:47] <r00t4rd3d> way better then outdated joomla
[00:09:53] <Valen> SWPadnos: what I'm saying is if that confirmation email has a "from" address thats say confirmations@linuxcnc.org rather than webmaster@linuxcnc.org the bounce message will go there
[00:09:59] <SWPadnos> if either one can be configured to send or not send emails, then they are equivalents
[00:10:06] <SWPadnos> no, they won't
[00:10:14] <SWPadnos> at least, I think they won't
[00:10:15] <Valen> they should
[00:10:35] <SWPadnos> I believe these are messages to the sysadmin saying that a user is doing something that didn't work
[00:10:36] <Valen> well unless you have webmaster getting *all* bounce messages
[00:10:40] <SWPadnos> so it doesn't matter who the user is
[00:10:45] <SWPadnos> ding! :)
[00:10:57] <Valen> thats not the default configuration
[00:11:06] <PCW> Youtube now has phone call account verification (they call you with a number) I guess they gave up on capchas
[00:11:27] <SWPadnos> actually, they just might be getting sent from webmaster@, which could fix teh problem
[00:11:52] <Valen> it means if say andypugh sent an email from andypugh@linuxcnc to Valen@wherever.com and it bounced because my mailbox was full then webmaster@linuxcnc would get a copy of andypughs email to me in the bounce message
[00:12:01] <Valen> and andypugh wouldn't see it
[00:12:21] <Valen> can you pastebin one of these bounce messages?
[00:12:55] <SWPadnos> actually, you're right, the original mail comes from webmaster
[00:13:21] <Valen> yeah so we just need to change the "from" address used for the confirmation message
[00:13:25] <SWPadnos> Subject: LinuxCNC.org - Your Registration is Pending Approval
[00:13:27] <SWPadnos> From: User Registration <webmaster@linuxcnc.org>
[00:13:29] <SWPadnos> Date: 10/11/2012 3:33 PM
[00:13:30] <SWPadnos> To: helqbbecmncg@lhmowggxovwj.com
[00:13:32] <SWPadnos> for example
[00:13:33] <Valen> then you can just killfile all of them
[00:13:44] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Has anyone updated (if applicable ) the Kuena forum plugin for joomla?
[00:13:47] <Valen> what mail client are you using?
[00:14:02] <JT-Shop> Jymmm: no
[00:14:06] <Jymmm> http://www.kunena.org/
[00:14:10] -!- rob_h [rob_h!~rob_h@5e083ea0.bb.sky.com] has joined #linuxcnc
[00:14:17] <JT-Shop> nor jooumla
[00:14:32] <SWPadnos> Jymmm, I don't know the status of updates, that's been an Alex/JT (and I see Andy) thing for a while
[00:14:36] <SWPadnos> actually forever
[00:14:45] <SWPadnos> Valen, I'm using SeaMonkey on this machine
[00:14:55] <SWPadnos> I have headers, I just didn't paste them in :)
[00:15:07] <Valen> you use multiple devices to look at this email account?
[00:15:14] <JT-Shop> I don't do any updates, I think you need super powers to do that
[00:15:28] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Well, if theres a security update for it, it might stop all the bogus signups.
[00:15:45] <andypugh> Installed version: 1.0.8 | 2009-02-17
[00:15:49] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Since it's the item that's actually generating all those emails
[00:15:50] <r00t4rd3d> pretty sure there is a update for everything
[00:16:08] <Jymmm> andypugh: Latest is 2.02
[00:16:12] <r00t4rd3d> if you got joomla to the latest version even might be huge
[00:16:33] <Valen> probably going to be a big change doing that though
[00:16:44] <SWPadnos> hmmm
[00:16:45] <JT-Shop> latest kunena is 2.02
[00:16:57] <r00t4rd3d> there is probably an update feature in the admin panel
[00:17:01] <JT-Shop> but you need to update joomla first
[00:17:19] <SWPadnos> it's at v1.5.25, DH has 2.5.7 available, and the Joomla website says 3.0.1 is the latest
[00:17:20] <r00t4rd3d> http://extensions.joomla.org/extensions/core-enhancements/installers/9332
[00:17:25] <r00t4rd3d> joomla update manager
[00:17:50] <r00t4rd3d> 1.0 and on
[00:17:51] <SWPadnos> but DH is set to automatically update, so it's kinda strange that we're 1.0 out of date ...
[00:18:03] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: it's a plugin
[00:18:33] <r00t4rd3d> you can probably install the plugin from the admin panel
[00:18:46] <r00t4rd3d> im sure you can
[00:18:48] <SWPadnos> well, I don't have time to really deal with it tonight, I'm heading out of town tomorrow
[00:18:56] <r00t4rd3d> thats what they all say...
[00:19:01] <r00t4rd3d> no time
[00:19:04] <andypugh> I think you are missing the point that AFAIK _we_ can't do anyhting.
[00:19:18] <SWPadnos> if alex_joni can update it some time, that would be great
[00:19:31] -!- adb [adb!~IonMoldom@178-211-235-11.dhcp.voenergies.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[00:19:33] <SWPadnos> I could click the update button, but I can't help with the fallout :)
[00:19:41] <r00t4rd3d> who has access to the joomla admin panel ?
[00:19:45] <Jymmm> http://www.kunena.org/forum/K-2-0-General-Questions/125332-captcha-in-kunena
[00:19:48] <Valen> doooooo eeeeettttt ;->
[00:20:01] <r00t4rd3d> SWPadnos, install that update extension!
[00:20:03] <Valen> click the button and run
[00:20:04] <archivist> it has to be done
[00:20:07] <Valen> you know you want to
[00:20:12] <r00t4rd3d> http://extensions.joomla.org/extensions/core-enhancements/installers/9332
[00:20:14] <SWPadnos> next week, maybe
[00:20:19] <r00t4rd3d> loser.
[00:20:23] <SWPadnos> I'll be here for most of the week
[00:20:23] <r00t4rd3d> L
[00:20:41] <r00t4rd3d> if you are scared....
[00:20:52] <archivist> or spread the love so someone else can do it
[00:21:05] <andypugh> I would be scared to do it.
[00:21:21] <r00t4rd3d> andy did you see the extension ?
[00:21:28] <r00t4rd3d> it updates it for you
[00:21:35] <archivist> one needs to test on a clone
[00:21:46] <jthornton> I have added one plugin so far
[00:21:58] <andypugh> But it is all very wierd. Like the way that the "User Manager" button is completley different to, and does different things to the "Community Builder -> Yser Management" menu item.
[00:22:00] <archivist> are backups being done
[00:22:01] <r00t4rd3d> read the reviews for the extension
[00:22:22] <SWPadnos> I'm pretty sure I have a Joomla login, but I don't remember the password (or username, come to think of it) since it's been about a year since I looked at it
[00:22:42] <SWPadnos> I think Alex did add me as a super-duper admin at that time
[00:23:07] <SWPadnos> I also have control over the joomla install itself, through my DH account (which I also gave to Alex around the same time)
[00:23:38] <SWPadnos> but as I said, I don't have time tonight, so maybe some time next week (though I'm pretty busy then too), or some time in November if someone else hasn't done it already
[00:23:40] <SWPadnos> see you later
[00:23:49] <Valen> catchya, laters
[00:24:03] <jthornton> later
[00:26:03] <r00t4rd3d> SWPadnos, http://sammoffatt.com.au/os/joomla-15-products/3-jupdateman/37-jupdateman-walkthrough?showall=1
[00:26:11] <r00t4rd3d> from the maker of the extension on use.
[00:26:15] <r00t4rd3d> 3 steps :/
[00:26:28] <Valen> r00t4rd3d: the problem isnt the update
[00:26:35] <Valen> its fixing what breaks
[00:27:24] <r00t4rd3d> no quicker way to fix it then break it
[00:27:40] <archivist> which is why I clone something when doing a large update like that, I know what one can hit along the way
[00:28:06] <Valen> r00t4rd3d: sure, if you have no life
[00:28:07] <r00t4rd3d> would much be missed if all the messages got wiped?
[00:28:49] <archivist> a database dump first so anything can be repaired
[00:29:41] <andypugh> yes, there is a lot of info only on the forums
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[00:40:26] <gmouer> would like to confirm... heard that running servo drives in torque mode is the better method and used more commonly in later machines, velocity mode was more common on older machines and not as popular today
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[00:41:25] <andypugh> I have very little experience, nut my impression is that torque mode is a bit harder to tune.
[00:42:17] -!- FinboySlick [FinboySlick!~shark@squal.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[00:42:20] <gmouer> I certainly lack experience too, PCW would prob be the guy with some great info
[00:43:46] <gmouer> myself and a couple friends will be doing some bridgeports before long, and I just heard about torque mode being the preferred method today, thus the question
[00:44:07] <gmouer> no drives yet so can go either way
[00:44:33] <PCW> Torque mode effectively requires LinuxCNC to run the velocity loop as well (the D term)
[00:44:35] <PCW> this typically needs higher bandwidth so you may need more than 1 KHz servo thread
[00:45:01] <gmouer> ok, but that is not a obstacle is it?
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[00:45:12] <PCW> Depends on your CPU
[00:45:51] <gmouer> ok, so if you had your choice, and had not bought drives yet nor a cpu, which would you pick and why?
[00:46:29] <andypugh> That's slightly unfair. PCW would choose Mesa kit because he has racks of it.
[00:46:35] <PCW> some core Duos will cheerfully run 5 KHz loops, but the little Atom MBs are limited to about 1.5 KHz
[00:47:39] -!- Keknom [Keknom!~monkeky@c-76-125-214-194.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[00:48:25] <PCW> Torque mode means LinuxCNC has more control (so say you want to limit torque during homing, you can)
[00:49:27] <PCW> most newer drives can do either so you dont necessarily need to chose at this point
[00:49:32] <gmouer> that is basically what I heard, that in torque, linuxcnc has tighter control over the whole process in general because it is handling it in entirety
[00:50:09] <gmouer> what is the trend in new modern machinery out there?
[00:50:35] <gmouer> non linuxcnc, fanuc, and such
[00:51:16] <PCW> Dont really know I like torque mode but in my experience its definitely fussier to tune
[00:52:18] <gmouer> interesting, I had hoped to get your input, I have read many of your posts concerning servo's and your expertise is quite evident
[00:52:42] <PCW> It also quite nice for spindles since you can integrate torque over time and get and idea how much work is needed for a particular job
[00:53:03] <PCW> (and notice dull tooling etc)
[00:53:56] <gmouer> say on a bridgeport, would you expect one method to give better following error results on average over the other?
[00:55:05] <andypugh> Torque mode is cheaper. AFAIK all the Pico and Mesa amps are torque-mode
[00:55:21] <gmouer> cheap is good LOL
[00:55:56] <PCW> I think its much of a muchness, you are really only talking about where physically the parts of the control loop are run
[00:55:58] <PCW> a velocity mode drive runs the D term at the drive. And yes torque mode is cheaper since the drive need not know the motor velocity
[00:56:01] <gmouer> amps for the bridgeport are not as plentifull, need at least 15amps cont and maybe 25 peak, 140V or so
[00:57:31] <andypugh> DC or brushless motors?
[00:57:45] <gmouer> oem brush, sem and powertron motors
[00:58:31] <gmouer> right now I have dugong step/dir drives in it, 30amp rated, I am set at 15amp contin , drives are running at 125V
[00:58:45] <andypugh> 7i29? http://www.mesanet.com/motioncardinfo.html
[00:59:41] <andypugh> But what do you hope to gain by ditching the Dugongs?
[00:59:54] <gmouer> I looked at those Andy, I just wish they had a touch more peak capability than 22.5a
[01:00:45] <andypugh> It's 22.5A continuous.
[01:01:28] <gmouer> the dugong tuning sucks !!! Been 2 years now, and I have tuned several times but never got rid of dither problems even breaking into low level oscillation, I have to detune things to get things stable. Pretty sluggish tune
[01:02:13] <gmouer> I just retro'd a lathe with linuxcnc and the oem velocity drives, tuning was such a pleasure !!!
[01:02:27] <andypugh> Well, that's velocity drives for you :-)
[01:02:32] -!- tjb1 [tjb1!~tjb1@129.sub-174-252-215.myvzw.com] has joined #linuxcnc
[01:02:49] <andypugh> Have you tried running the Dugongs as velocity drives?
[01:02:50] <gmouer> the dugongs have no FF parameters for example brought out in their software
[01:02:57] <PCW> Are the original drives gone?
[01:03:10] <gmouer> yea, the original bridgeport drives were long gone
[01:03:46] <andypugh> You could set up a PID in HAL and send velocity-mode stepgen signals to the Dugongs.
[01:03:47] <tjb1> Can someone explain the latency test numbers to me and where I put them. I have my base_period at 16000 and the latency test keeps showing numbers like 9k but when I start axis I get error about it
[01:04:05] <gmouer> the dugongs are step/dir drives, encoder feedback to the drive, loop is closed between motor and drive outside the control, no way to do velocity that I could think of
[01:04:26] <andypugh> tjb1: What does your motion.servo-overruns pin say?
[01:05:07] <andypugh> gmouer: take the feedback to LinuxCNC too, set up a PID and send velocity-mode stepgen output to the Dugong.
[01:05:26] <andypugh> I don't know that it will work better, but it's free to try.
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[01:05:35] <tjb1> Is that in the HAL?
[01:05:45] <andypugh> yes
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[01:05:49] <gmouer> the drives will shut down without encoder input, so the encoder has to be connected to the drive
[01:05:50] <tjb1> No motion.servo in hal file
[01:06:04] * Valen uses mesa hardware, just because its awesome ;->
[01:06:17] <andypugh> tjb1: Machine->show hal config
[01:06:32] <gmouer> the dugongs would sell easily to one of the mach3 boys, so that makes switching drives pretty cheap
[01:07:26] <Valen> I like that the mesa chain is all digital
[01:07:38] <tjb1> andypugh: Still no motion.servo
[01:08:07] <gmouer> PCW: on the 7i29 is the 22.5 amps the peak capability also?
[01:08:31] <Valen> I ran my servo loop at up to 7khz on a dual cpu xeon and there wasnt much of an improvement for me over 1khz, but then i have linear scales for the feed back, so i think theres a bit of lag in the system
[01:08:49] <Valen> also my servo motors are 500W scooter motors directly coupled ;->
[01:10:18] <andypugh> tjb1: It's under parameters
[01:10:49] <tjb1> andypugh: Ok found it now, what do you want? The value?
[01:11:14] <andypugh> Just wondering if it is continuously increasing
[01:11:37] <andypugh> (note that only the _watch_ tab auto-updates.
[01:11:57] <tjb1> Nothing showing on my watch tab :)
[01:12:06] <andypugh> No, you have to add it
[01:12:41] <andypugh> just click the parameter with the watch tab open
[01:12:53] <andypugh> (I wish there was a way to remove things from the watch tab)
[01:13:07] <tjb1> Ok not increasing with just axis open
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[01:13:13] <andypugh> Value?
[01:13:22] <tjb1> 0
[01:13:31] <andypugh> That's interesting
[01:13:52] <Valen> I do wish there was a way to squelch warnings about latency for a few seconds after starting , but still get them if it happens after then
[01:13:58] <tjb1> I dont remember the exact message but I know it says something about it only showing once during the session
[01:14:05] <andypugh> Though it might just mean no servo-thread over-runs, and you might be having base-thread problems
[01:14:09] <tjb1> and running task 1
[01:14:22] <Valen> I always get a latency error when starting axis
[01:14:25] <andypugh> Yes, the once-per-session is why I suggest loooking at the parameter.
[01:14:46] <tjb1> Is there a way to check the base thread?
[01:14:48] <andypugh> The parameter is updated every time, but I think only for the servo thread
[01:15:20] <andypugh> Not that I know of, but that doesn't mean that there isn't
[01:15:39] <andypugh> Right, 'tis 0215, time to sleep.
[01:15:44] <tjb1> What am I looking for in the latency test? The max jitter in the base thread?
[01:15:44] <Valen> i think theres one just called latency in there somewhere
[01:16:00] <Valen> nighty night andypugh
[01:16:11] <tjb1> Max jitter on base thread is 6532
[01:16:19] <tjb1> Bye andypugh
[01:16:27] <Valen> you cant run latency test and axis at the same time
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[01:17:36] <tjb1> Axis isnt running
[01:18:34] <r00t4rd3d> Ahh, nother happy custom and money in my pocket :)
[01:18:42] <r00t4rd3d> customer*
[01:18:43] <Valen> yer box r00t4rd3d?
[01:18:47] <r00t4rd3d> yeah
[01:18:53] <r00t4rd3d> they just picked it up
[01:18:58] <Valen> tjb1: what problem are you having again?
[01:19:12] <r00t4rd3d> arent* fixed that for you.
[01:19:15] <tjb1> The once per session error and to run latency test
[01:19:44] <Valen> the once per session error isn't nescicarily bad
[01:19:56] <Valen> what hardware are you using
[01:20:01] <Valen> computer wise
[01:20:17] <r00t4rd3d> atom 525
[01:20:17] <tjb1> dell inspirion 4600
[01:20:22] <r00t4rd3d> oh nvm
[01:20:36] <r00t4rd3d> i thought you orded a atom 525?
[01:20:48] <tjb1> no
[01:20:51] <Valen> have you turned hyperthreading off?
[01:21:14] <tjb1> I doubt it, that done in the bios?
[01:21:17] <Valen> yeah
[01:21:22] <tjb1> Let me check it
[01:21:26] <Valen> if its a P4, turning HT off will help
[01:21:38] <Valen> or anything else i spose lol
[01:21:41] <Valen> HT is bad for latency
[01:21:43] <PCW> Valen you are running bare HBridges which are closer to velocity mode than torque mode
[01:21:49] <r00t4rd3d> damn, i just got another order.
[01:21:55] <r00t4rd3d> from CL.
[01:22:29] <Valen> PCW i spose, its more like a mix of everything though wouldn't it be?
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[01:22:46] <Valen> i mean at stall you can put 24V across the motor and have no movement ;->
[01:22:58] <tjb1> Valen I cant get into the Bios...
[01:23:03] <tjb1> I hit F2 and it just loads Ubuntu
[01:23:12] <Valen> sure f2 is the bios key?
[01:23:20] <tjb1> Press F2 for setup
[01:24:22] <Valen> reboot it, and just keep hammering the key from the time you hit reboot ;->
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[01:25:07] <tjb1> wireless keyboard maybe?
[01:25:13] <Valen> could be
[01:25:15] <tjb1> The problem I mean
[01:25:20] <Valen> if you have a PS2 keyboard try that
[01:25:24] <tjb1> Let me see if I can find a wired
[01:25:43] <Valen> Also try bashing F1, del and F10
[01:27:43] <Valen> note bashing is press and release
[01:27:56] <Valen> just holding it down will often get that key squelched
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[01:30:17] <r00t4rd3d> on older computers it wont fire up the usb power till after it posts
[01:30:32] <tjb1> I have gotten into the bios before with a wireless
[01:30:37] <tjb1> It wont let me in at all now
[01:30:48] <Valen> dells of the P4 vintage should be ok with USB keyboards though
[01:31:13] <Valen> you can tell if you have HT on or off by "cat /proc/cpuinfo"
[01:31:16] <tjb1> Ignores the USB too
[01:31:19] <Valen> see how many CPUs it says you have
[01:31:37] <Valen> see if you can get the boot menu
[01:31:45] <Valen> you may have changed the usb keyboard mode too
[01:31:48] <tjb1> Nothing at all
[01:31:59] <Valen> sometimes you can lock yourself out of bios with usb keyboards that way
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[01:32:32] <tjb1> I dont see anything in that about number of CPUs
[01:33:08] <Valen> see if it has one list of cpu info or two
[01:33:23] <tjb1> 1 list
[01:33:31] <tjb1> Pentium 4 CPU 2.80GHz
[01:33:53] <Valen> http://pastebin.com/NWZ5jLfe is for a 4 cpu with HT
[01:34:14] <Valen> see how it has all the processors listed
[01:34:34] <tjb1> I dont have the cpu cores or processors
[01:34:53] <Valen> do you have internet on that box?
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[01:35:30] <tjb1> no
[01:35:35] <Valen> ahh
[01:36:11] <Valen> what does cat /proc/cpuinfo | grep "processor" give you?
[01:36:11] <tjb1> Do you happen to know what I can do to reset the bios so I can enter it?
[01:36:24] <Valen> generally power off the machine
[01:36:30] <Valen> pull the cmos battery out
[01:36:35] <tjb1> 0
[01:36:52] <Valen> (by power off the machine i mean shut down then pull the power plug)
[01:36:56] <Valen> then tap the power button
[01:36:59] <Valen> then wait a minute
[01:37:09] <Valen> then put the battery and power plug back in and turn it on
[01:37:29] <Valen> but if you only have the one cpu then you dont have HT on
[01:37:36] <Valen> what is the cpu anyway?
[01:38:10] <tjb1> the pentium 4 2.8 GHz
[01:38:31] <Valen> well it sounds like you have HT off at first blush anyway
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[01:39:30] <tjb1> Its performing auto IDE configuration now
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[01:40:52] <tjb1> Wow, found a ps2 keyboard and it worked instant...
[01:40:58] <tjb1> What can I change to allow USB?
[01:40:59] <Valen> damn i'm good ;->
[01:41:16] <Valen> something about usb keyboard mode its generally called
[01:41:36] <tjb1> USB Controller and Emulation is on
[01:41:57] <Valen> try turning emulation off i guess
[01:42:03] <Valen> does it tell you what it is?
[01:42:03] <tjb1> Would it be the PXE BIS Default Policy?
[01:42:06] <Valen> the emulation?
[01:42:17] <Valen> nah leave that its probably unrelated
[01:42:23] <tjb1> The emulation is either On, Off, or No BOOT
[01:42:43] <Valen> eh change it to off i guess lol
[01:42:52] <Valen> with a ps2 keyboard it should be ok
[01:43:07] <tjb1> HT was off
[01:43:12] <Valen> yeah i thaught so
[01:44:07] <tjb1> Still ignored usb keyboard
[01:45:06] <Valen> dunno, don't worry about it too much
[01:45:15] <tjb1> Ill have to get a nice ps2 keyboard
[01:45:28] <Valen> eh you only need it for screwing with bios
[01:45:54] <tjb1> Im gonna try to see if there is a bios update
[01:46:14] <Valen> I wouldnt worry about it unless there is a problem
[01:46:17] <Valen> risky
[01:46:59] <tjb1> Alrighty then
[01:48:03] <tjb1> fast boot good or bad?
[01:49:33] <Valen> meh
[01:49:35] <Valen> leave it on
[01:49:37] <L84Supper> you could try the BIOS update if you have a backup flash device and if the flash is in a socket
[01:50:27] <tjb1> Its on the latest as far as I can tell
[01:50:36] <L84Supper> but you really be sure you know whats going on vs thinking that you'll be able to magically be able to recover if you make a mistake
[01:56:10] <tjb1> funny I can get into setup now with usb...
[01:56:45] <tjb1> and wireless...
[01:57:11] <tjb1> What could I expect to spend to build a new linux computer
[01:58:08] <Valen> around $100 for one of the dual core mini-itx atom boards ;->
[01:58:39] <tjb1> What else :P
[01:59:45] <Valen> what do you mean?
[01:59:51] <Valen> oh other stuff you need?
[02:00:04] <Valen> just rip the mbo out of the current machine and stick it in ;->
[02:00:11] <Valen> although i spose you need a sata disk
[02:00:15] <Valen> and some ram
[02:00:33] <r00t4rd3d> most of us use the Intel Atom D525MW.
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[02:01:55] <r00t4rd3d> you can get the board and fill it with ram for 100 bucks
[02:02:32] <tjb1> alright
[02:02:45] <tjb1> Bunches faster I guess
[02:02:48] <gmouer> me and friends bought foxconns atom computers off ebay for $49 they are still there buy it now
[02:02:51] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Intel-D525MW-Mini-ITX-Motherboard-w-Atom-525-CPU-/200542103383?pt=Motherboards&hash=item2eb13da757
[02:02:56] <tjb1> Mine turned into a jet when I remember to grab the 1gb ram I had at school
[02:03:33] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.ebay.com/itm/RAMAXEL-4GB-DDR3-2x2GB-PC3-10600S-1333MHz-Laptop-Memory-Mac-Thinkpad-HP-Dell-RAM-/390477849804?pt=US_Memory_RAM_&hash=item5aea4b24cc
[02:03:38] <r00t4rd3d> board and memory
[02:03:46] <tjb1> There a box for that?
[02:03:47] <Valen> actually no, its probably not faster than the P4
[02:03:51] <Valen> about the same I'd say
[02:04:01] <Valen> but dual core gives one core for RT stuff
[02:04:22] <r00t4rd3d> i wouldnt do that
[02:04:31] <r00t4rd3d> with a 525 atleast
[02:05:18] <r00t4rd3d> someone around here tried dedicating one of the cores on a 525 and it didnt work out so well
[02:05:38] <tjb1> r00t4rd3d: Is there a case for that mobo
[02:05:55] <r00t4rd3d> any mini itx case
[02:06:16] <tjb1> By the way, if you guys need any atv-utv help…let me know
[02:06:18] <Valen> or even full size case should do it
[02:06:22] <tjb1> I do know some things
[02:06:28] <Valen> atv-utv?
[02:06:33] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811154091
[02:06:38] <tjb1> fourwheelers and side by sides
[02:06:42] <r00t4rd3d> people use that case
[02:06:59] <r00t4rd3d> I do tons of small engine work
[02:07:15] <r00t4rd3d> mainly dirt bikes/chain saws/atv;s
[02:07:26] <tjb1> Ill have to build a nice little comp later on...
[02:07:53] <tjb1> Oh…cant get another parport on that d525 can you
[02:07:58] <r00t4rd3d> my 525 rocks linux or windows 7
[02:08:09] <r00t4rd3d> it has a pci slot
[02:08:40] <r00t4rd3d> so you could probably use a mesa card
[02:08:47] <Valen> or a pci pport card
[02:08:53] <Valen> but yeah, put a mesa card in
[02:08:56] <Valen> and own the winning!
[02:09:31] <tjb1> but mesa is soooo expensive :(
[02:09:41] <PCW> is not
[02:09:45] <r00t4rd3d> you dont have to mess with 525's at all, they just work.
[02:09:56] <Valen> lol PCW
[02:10:04] <Valen> mesa is cheap for what you get
[02:10:20] <tjb1> Not cheap compared to my $5 parport from ebay
[02:10:25] <tjb1> and a $20 b.o.b
[02:10:33] <gmouer> mesa expensive? got to be kidding! Buy some mach3 hardware, mesa is cheap and powerfull
[02:10:33] <Valen> cheap compared to a fanuc
[02:11:14] <Valen> mach3 has hardware?
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[02:12:28] <ReadError> how much are those mesa boards?
[02:12:29] <gmouer> yea, smoothstepper board $165 C11G breakout board $125, C10 breakout board $35 mesa 7i77 replaced all that and gives tons more pins available with way better specs for quite a bit less money
[02:12:34] <ReadError> i couldnt find them for sale anywhere
[02:13:00] <gmouer> I have high res encoders on servos, Parallel port just can not go fast enough
[02:13:38] <gmouer> readerror: there are a bunch of different mesa board combo's so it depends on the application
[02:14:02] <ReadError> where can you even buy them?
[02:14:10] <gmouer> direct from mesa
[02:14:23] <jdh> just click add-to-cart and order them!
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[02:14:33] <jdh> ok, that ws low.
[02:14:40] <Valen> their website is a little bit lacking in terms of user friendly ;->
[02:14:48] <gmouer> I have bought 2 combos in the last couple months, more in the near future
[02:15:22] <gmouer> how about 300ma capability on the output pins directly? thats darned nice !!!
[02:15:55] <gmouer> all current limited of course, shorts are no problem
[02:16:30] <PCW> credit goes to automotive grade driver chips
[02:17:03] <gmouer> PCW: yea but some designer had to be sharp enough to pick those chips! LOL
[02:17:21] <PCW> we should have a store online in a bit
[02:17:33] <jdh> that would be good and bad.
[02:18:09] <Valen> bad for your wallet jdh?
[02:18:23] <jdh> yeah, I'm bad about impulse purchases.
[02:18:23] <Valen> PCW consider offering usps for shipping please ;->
[02:18:39] <gmouer> only thing on my wishlist for the 7i77 and 76 would be breaking up the field power supply into more than one supply voltage, that would be handy, I know you mentioned to me that you are thinking about that
[02:19:55] <gmouer> even though just about all the pins in the typical retrofit are the same voltage, there is always that one or two that need 12V 5V or some other voltage.
[02:19:56] <PCW> Yes the 7I84 does that now and we will probably add that feature to newer board revs
[02:20:57] <gmouer> Pete, is that something I could possibly do cutting a trace or two on the board and running a new lead for a single output chip?
[02:21:04] <PCW> latest 7I77/7I76 firmware allows 5V field power and supports 5V MPG encoders on some field inputs (regardless of field voltage)
[02:21:26] <tjb1> What is xenable?
[02:22:20] <PCW> I dont think its would be good wired by hand (it sin the plane and bypassed now)
[02:22:52] <gmouer> just curious, I worked around it this time, the machine is up and running now
[02:23:23] <gmouer> I got 2 more friends that are mesa converts now too after they seen my setup
[02:23:44] <tjb1> Can someone explain why homing Z doesnt set it to 0 anymore
[02:23:57] <jdh> does it set it to whatever you have home set to?
[02:24:08] <PCW> We will get to it, probably the next board lot (take a look at 7I84 manual its basically the I/O part of a 7I77/7I76)
[02:24:11] <tjb1> no
[02:24:31] <jdh> mine does!
[02:25:03] <PCW> bbl ttgh
[02:25:09] <tjb1> fresh start of linuxcnc...
[02:25:17] <jdh> got a HOME_OFFSET?
[02:25:23] <tjb1> set to 0
[02:25:38] <tjb1> Z is currently saying it is at 4.2045
[02:25:47] <tjb1> I hit home and it brings up the home icon and stays at 4.2045
[02:25:59] <gmouer> Just remembered something I wanted to ask you Pete! Your H bridge modules seem to be setup for the 5i20 board for interfacing. Is there a easy way to interface them to a 5i25? All the stuff I bought is 5i25 based
[02:26:03] <jdh> sounds like you don't have homing enabled?
[02:26:34] <gmouer> tbj1 homing sets the machine coordinate to zero, you are looking at the G54 coordinate probably
[02:26:37] <tjb1> I dont have a sequence or any switches but it use to set Z to 0 but ever since I added a probe it doesnt work
[02:28:23] <gmouer> tbj1: go into machine, and zero the G54 coordinate system after homing, that will zero your Z display
[02:28:48] <jdh> what he said
[02:29:26] <tjb1> Way to verify its setting g53 to 0?
[02:29:58] <gmouer> the dro tab on the screen and you can see all the dros at once onscreen
[02:30:52] <jdh> g10 l2 p1 x0 y0 z0 maybe?
[02:31:11] <tjb1> x and y are 0, z is 4.2045
[02:31:16] <tjb1> g54 z is -3.180
[02:32:18] <gmouer> do the g54 zero I described above and X Y and Z will all be zero
[02:32:46] <jdh> doesn't really matter though
[02:32:56] <jdh> you will touch off to your work anyway won't you?
[02:33:25] <tjb1> gmouer: But this is going to affect the software limits
[02:33:38] <jdh> shouldn't
[02:34:05] <tjb1> well if the home is now 4" off I just lost 4 inch of travel
[02:34:07] <gmouer> software limits are in machine coordinates, they never change after homing, G54 has no effect on software limits
[02:34:29] <jdh> did you reset g54 to 0?
[02:34:41] <gmouer> unhome it, jog it back to the true zero and then rehome, you will get your lost 4" of travel back
[02:34:47] <r00t4rd3d> holy crap, Teensy 3.0 is tiny! http://i.imgur.com/S5mkc.jpg
[02:35:20] <gmouer> you homed with the machine 4" off the end, thats why it set that as the new home position aka zero
[02:36:06] <gmouer> made all these same mistakes just last week, until I got my head wrapped around what was going on
[02:36:32] <tjb1> But isnt the point of home is it going to the switch and setting that to 0?
[02:36:45] <jdh> do you have a switch?
[02:36:51] <gmouer> whoa ! you have a home switch?
[02:36:53] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.pjrc.com/store/teensy3.html
[02:37:03] <tjb1> Not hooked up at the moment
[02:37:12] <jdh> whereever you are when you hit home is your new home
[02:37:25] <gmouer> yup what he said
[02:37:27] <tjb1> The home in the ini is set to 0
[02:37:30] <jdh> the soft limits are relative to that
[02:37:32] <tjb1> not 4.2045
[02:37:45] <tjb1> I even moved the Z to a new number and it goes back to 4.2045
[02:38:30] <jdh> what does g10 l2 p1 z0 do?
[02:38:37] <tjb1> ugh and I cant turn the spindle off!
[02:38:41] <tjb1> m5 isnt doing anything to my output...
[02:39:05] <tjb1> does nothing jdh
[02:39:10] <jdh> dpesm
[02:39:17] <jdh> doesn't change teh displayed z?
[02:39:26] <tjb1> it hcnaged to 1.0245
[02:40:06] * r00t4rd3d hugs his simple setup :D
[02:40:45] <jdh> have you jogged after homing?
[02:41:09] <tjb1> yes
[02:41:23] <tjb1> I did g1 z0 f10.0
[02:41:27] <tjb1> then homed z and it set it to 1.0245
[02:42:20] <tjb1> then doing g1 z0 f10.0 moves it negative 1.0245
[02:42:39] <jdh> g53 g0 z0 , g92.1, home z, g54, g10 l2 p1 z0
[02:44:07] <tjb1> ok
[02:44:11] <tjb1> it zeroed and didnt change
[02:45:07] <jdh> I have a file similar to that (all axes) that wipes all offsets, tool offsets, etc for when I get confused.
[02:45:50] <tjb1> ok now why wont m5 turn off output?
[02:46:03] <tjb1> m3 s1 = continous continuity on the output
[02:46:07] <tjb1> m5 = beep beep beep beep beep
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[02:49:34] <tjb1> Got it...
[02:49:56] <tjb1> Didnt have plasma ground hooked up and the wires were backwards apparently
[02:51:30] <r00t4rd3d> lol
[02:52:14] <tjb1> Hypertherm manual just says 3 and 4 are plasma start...
[02:52:18] <tjb1> doesnt say where they go
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[03:23:08] <tjb1> Can someone help me with M66
[03:30:05] <jdh> Not me!
[03:31:28] <jdh> M66 P0 L3 (wait for digital input 0 to turn on)
[03:31:35] <jdh> looks easy enough though
[03:32:08] <tjb1> Nevermind I had the wrong L…good to go!
[03:32:15] <tjb1> Now have computer controlled arc, wait for pierce and move!
[03:32:24] <jdh> nifty
[03:32:28] <jdh> what will you be making?
[03:32:31] <tjb1> all in 8 weeks
[03:32:36] <tjb1> whatever someone pays for ;)
[03:33:35] <jdh> how about an ugly ragged outdoor table?
[03:34:19] <Valen> ragged to within .01mm!
[03:34:26] <tjb1> why ragged?
[03:34:34] <jdh> just ads I've seen
[03:35:00] <jdh> guess it wasn't so much ragged as ugly
[03:35:46] <tjb1> for plasma or the outdoor table you seen
[03:36:28] <jdh> plasma cam ad in home machinist mag or whatever
[03:36:49] <tjb1> That thing they fold?
[03:37:01] <tjb1> cut out of like a 4x4 sheet and bend half of it
[03:37:07] <jdh> yeah
[03:37:40] <tjb1> plasmacam is over rated...
[03:37:49] <jdh> http://www.plasmacam.com/images/orniron/02-02-OI-Carriage_Table.gif
[03:37:51] <jdh> or that
[03:37:55] <tjb1> all they talk about are servos and I havent figured out how they fire the hand torch
[03:38:30] <tjb1> You cant fire a hypertherm hand torch without modifying the machine
[03:38:43] <Valen> bigass solenoid?
[03:38:45] <tjb1> but look here - http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/uploads/torchholder.jpg
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[03:39:26] <tjb1> So I guess they advise people who buy their system how to open the machine and modify it?
[03:39:38] <Valen> why would you need to do that?
[03:39:47] <Valen> could you not just put a solenoid on the trigger?
[03:39:55] <Valen> i mean its on/off right?
[03:40:14] <tjb1> to push trigger on and off?
[03:40:27] <tjb1> they have wire ties on the trigger in the ad I seen
[03:42:43] <jdh> nifty, but I can't see ever having room for one.
[03:43:03] <jdh> and I spent my extra cash on a Shrimp last week
[03:43:31] <r00t4rd3d> lol
[03:43:36] <tjb1> http://www.facebook.com/v/4435982933679
[03:43:40] <tjb1> Can you see that?
[03:44:03] <Valen> I have been pondering getting a mini tig/stick/plasma combo
[03:44:03] <jdh> looks like a way overbuilt z
[03:44:25] <r00t4rd3d> LMFAO
[03:44:41] <tjb1> How is it overbuilt?
[03:45:16] <Valen> seems like a weird way of probing the height
[03:45:23] <jdh> it only has to support the weight of the torch and the cable?
[03:45:34] <tjb1> Its a router too jdh
[03:45:54] <jdh> oh. not over built for a router
[03:46:12] <tjb1> that plate with the linear slides comes off and the router bolts in its place
[03:46:18] <jdh> how high above the work do you have to keep the torch?
[03:46:38] <tjb1> .160 for pierce and .08 for cut
[03:46:50] <tjb1> But I cant do that with the current shield because it is preset for that for hand cutting
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[03:48:32] <tjb1> Valen, why a weird way to probe height?
[03:48:34] <tjb1> ugh...
[03:48:47] <tjb1> And what are you laughing about r00t4rd3d
[03:48:59] <tjb1> Youll get your $1,000 side plates earlier now ;)
[03:51:26] <jdh> http://www.amazon.com/Everlast-PowerPro-Plasma-Cutter-Process/dp/B0081BF1AE
[03:51:29] <jdh> junk?
[03:51:59] <tjb1> I read they are very noisy
[03:52:16] <r00t4rd3d> what isnt
[03:52:20] <tjb1> hypertherm
[03:52:21] <r00t4rd3d> penicl
[03:52:27] <r00t4rd3d> pencil*
[03:52:46] <tjb1> jdh: What amp is the plasma?
[03:52:55] <r00t4rd3d> 250
[03:53:04] <r00t4rd3d> err 60a plasma
[03:53:24] <tjb1> Where did you find 60
[03:53:37] <tjb1> oh in the title...
[03:53:54] <tjb1> Depending on how good it is…it should cut about 3/4
[03:53:56] <jdh> http://www.everlastgenerators.com/PowerPro-256-3909-pd.html
[03:54:19] <jdh> do you use air with a plasma cutter?
[03:54:36] <r00t4rd3d> water
[03:54:45] <tjb1> yes air
[03:54:59] <jdh> always, or just to help?
[03:55:06] <tjb1> it requires air to blow slag
[03:55:09] <r00t4rd3d> is a water table a requirement also?
[03:55:12] <tjb1> no
[03:55:31] <tjb1> plasmacam doesnt have water table or down draft
[03:55:39] <tjb1> just blows everything onto the floor and fills shop with smoke :P
[03:55:43] <jdh> seems like the water would help to stop the fires.
[03:55:58] <tjb1> water is just to contain the smoke/dust
[03:56:14] <tjb1> and cool parts
[03:56:27] <r00t4rd3d> what are the cool parts?
[03:56:37] <tjb1> your face in a minute ;)
[03:57:10] <tjb1> When you getting a super pid?
[03:57:17] <r00t4rd3d> i need to go do some sanding
[03:57:25] <jdh> tehy sell cheaper ones too, 40 and 50 amp plasma... Most only do DC TIG though
[03:57:31] <tjb1> Wouldnt have to sand if you set your router up correctly
[03:57:41] <r00t4rd3d> nothing to do with my machine yet
[03:58:01] <tjb1> jdh I would really recommend you get a hypertherm if you want a plasma cutter
[03:58:02] <r00t4rd3d> http://i.imgur.com/roMJt.jpg
[03:58:25] <jdh> I don't really need anything. I would prefer an AC/DC TIG over a plasma cutter.
[03:58:34] <jdh> but, if it also cut, that would be cool
[03:59:34] <tjb1> we have a lincoln precision tig 225
[03:59:49] <tjb1> probably out of your price range but its nice
[03:59:59] <r00t4rd3d> you calling him welfare?
[04:00:14] <tjb1> no...
[04:01:03] <r00t4rd3d> you see that board i linked?
[04:01:10] <jdh> made it yourself?
[04:01:11] <r00t4rd3d> thats all glued together
[04:01:20] <r00t4rd3d> glue and trim nailed
[04:01:26] <tjb1> jdh, are those everlast inverter tigs?
[04:01:38] <jdh> yeah, igbt
[04:02:05] <tjb1> the lincoln is a transformer and its pretty big..
[04:02:08] <tjb1> weighs like 400#
[04:02:14] <jdh> that exhausts all of my weld/wtf knowledge.
[04:02:28] <jdh> r00t: you need a thickness planer
[04:02:31] <tjb1> check out harrisweldingsupplies
[04:02:38] <jdh> someday
[04:02:54] <r00t4rd3d> i have one, i like the belt sander plainer better
[04:03:01] <jdh> first I want to convert one of my lathes, build a 3d printer, buy a laser cutter... then maybe a welder
[04:03:12] <tjb1> jdh: http://www.harrisweldingsupplies.com/
[04:03:18] <tjb1> You ever done TIG?
[04:03:20] <jdh> belt sander is a lot easier
[04:03:20] <tjb1> Its pretty hard
[04:03:28] <jdh> I've never welded anything by hand.
[04:03:35] <tjb1> Should get a MIG
[04:03:35] <t12> tig's only really hard if you want it to look beautiful or be food grade
[04:03:50] <t12> or be good for really high pressure
[04:03:52] <r00t4rd3d> thats what a file is for
[04:04:05] <tjb1> File? Grinder with a flap wheel :P
[04:04:18] <jdh> I have TIG welded hundreds of thousands of zirconium tubes though.
[04:04:34] <jdh> and laser welded them, and resistance welded them.
[04:04:36] <tjb1> with a robot?
[04:04:44] <jdh> more or less
[04:05:31] <tjb1> Im working on a 3d printer to build in the spring
[04:05:33] <jdh> resistance is easy, squeeze it really tight, pump 11,000 amps through it
[04:09:45] <tjb1> did you find a design yet jdh
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[04:40:30] <tjb1> Valen, whats weird about the touch off?
[04:41:59] <Valen> the way you drive down and lift the plate untill you hit the stop
[04:42:08] <Valen> i would have thaught you would just have a swith
[04:42:12] <Valen> switch
[04:42:16] <Valen> that hit the job
[04:42:25] <Valen> no additional slide
[04:43:30] <r00t4rd3d> http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/threads/27425-A-mill-camera
[04:43:37] <r00t4rd3d> thats cool
[04:43:41] <tjb1> but then the switch is in the way
[04:44:39] <Valen> we have one like that but its mounted to the head and offset
[04:44:48] <Valen> so we don't need to put it in and out
[04:44:56] <tjb1> I need 2 line laser for location now ;)
[04:45:21] <Valen> use a camera of xy positioning
[04:45:30] <Valen> even integrates into axis for more win
[04:45:58] <Valen> you can line up on a hole then
[04:46:15] <Valen> why would the switch need to be in the way tjb1?
[04:46:53] <tjb1> for the switch to probe the surface it would need to be same plane as the torch head
[04:47:25] <Valen> yeah but you have the torch some distance from the work no?
[04:47:31] <tjb1> .06
[04:47:40] <Valen> what units is that?
[04:47:42] <tjb1> inch
[04:47:56] <tjb1> 1.5 mm
[04:48:01] <Valen> gees thats a whole 1.5mm what you bitching about ;-P
[04:48:21] <Valen> itty bitty microswitch its all good ;->
[04:48:21] <tjb1> dragging the switch arm all over the stock :p
[04:48:31] <tjb1> Getting it stuck in a hole…bye bye switch
[04:48:34] <tjb1> lol
[04:49:44] <tjb1> I need to add a bolt in front of the prox sensor so I can make the probe distance smaller
[04:50:12] <Valen> put the switch behind the torch and let it pivot up when you hit the job
[04:50:18] <Valen> use a contact probe
[04:50:29] <Valen> anything like that, then you don't need that second slide
[04:50:30] <tjb1> im not redesigning again
[04:50:39] <Valen> but but your using linux
[04:50:48] <Valen> your sposed to redesign it endlessly
[04:51:00] <tjb1> thats the 3rd design of the z axis
[04:51:49] <tjb1> i need a prox sensor with larger sense distance
[04:52:00] <tjb1> anything over 35ipm and this one gets hit
[04:52:13] <Valen> during probing?
[04:52:17] <tjb1> yes
[04:52:30] <Valen> make it a sliding contact not end on perhaps?
[04:52:38] <tjb1> so add another slide :P
[04:52:48] <Valen> not quite
[04:52:51] <tjb1> ill deal with it
[04:53:01] <Valen> just rotate the switch 90 degrees so the plate moves past it
[04:53:01] <tjb1> Ill just cut probe height down to like .1 or something
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[04:54:05] <tjb1> alright bed time…gonna make the y wire chain mounts tomorrow
[04:54:10] <Valen> have fun
[04:54:18] <tjb1> Im dreading this chain
[04:54:27] <tjb1> but oh well
[04:54:34] <Valen> chain drive huh?
[04:55:02] <tjb1> no
[04:55:06] <tjb1> The chain to hold the wires
[04:55:14] <Valen> ahh cable tray thingie
[04:55:25] <Valen> r00t4rd3d: you can see our camera here http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?p=927505#post1004601
[04:55:30] <Valen> well the edge of it lol
[04:55:34] <tjb1> not a very friendly mounting situation on the y axis
[04:55:42] <Valen> could use our solution
[04:55:50] <Valen> bungy cord holding wires from the roof
[04:56:17] <tjb1> thats my torch solution :P
[04:56:49] <Valen> works for me ;->
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[06:50:04] <Loetmichel> mornin'
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[06:52:23] <DJ9DJ> moin
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[08:28:01] <Pilla_CNCpc> Hello!~
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[09:43:35] <pilla_> hi all \o/
[09:43:50] <pilla_> I feel such a noob, but I can't get pcb2gcode to work >.>
[09:44:18] <pilla_> I installed it and such, on lucid, did ./configure, make, sudo make install
[09:44:33] <pilla_> and when I want to read the help by typing pcb2gcode --help
[09:44:52] <pilla_> I get "pcb2gcode: command not found"
[09:45:03] <pilla_> I'm probably missing something very stupid xD
[09:46:01] <pilla_> Does anyone have any recommendations to turn .drl, .drr and a .txt file into a .ngc file?
[09:47:59] <pilla_> or at least something linuxCNC can open
[09:53:49] <dimas> pilla_, do you have pcb2gcode execution file in the same directory you run above commands in?
[09:55:07] <dimas> pilla_, also look for installation directory in MAKEFILE - what is it?
[09:56:25] <dimas> on my machine i would run "sudo updatedb" and then "locate pcb2gcode" to find where it was installed
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[10:15:09] <pilla_> Dimas: Yes I have it in the same directory
[10:16:01] <dimas> try to run it as "./pcb2gcode"
[10:16:26] <dimas> "./pcb2gcode --help"
[10:16:38] <dimas> without quotes
[10:17:12] <pilla_> That doesn't work either
[10:17:20] <pilla_> "no such file or directory"
[10:17:24] <pilla_> oh wait
[10:17:44] <pilla_> nope
[10:18:16] <pilla_> I don't have anything that looks like an executable in that folder either
[10:21:47] <Valen> did you make it an executable?
[10:21:47] <pilla_> dunno, what's the filename I'm looking for?
[10:21:47] <Valen> actually does pcb2gcode do an install?
[10:21:48] <Valen> I'd suggest doing a find / -iname "pcb2gcode"
[10:21:49] <Valen> perhaps throw a sudo in front of it to shut it up about the inaccessable directories
[10:21:49] <pilla_> xD
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[10:22:07] <pilla_> only thing it finds is /home/pilla/pcb2gcode
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[10:25:13] <pilla_> hmz
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[10:27:38] <dimas> pilla_, wonder what make install actually did
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[10:39:23] <dimas> you can rerun it and look closely
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[10:52:01] <pilla_> does it work?
[10:52:28] <dimas> pilla_, hold on, i'm trying
[10:53:21] <pilla_> I'll be back in a few minutes, need to move
[10:53:26] <pilla_> class over
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[15:05:54] * JT-Shop is making a tap drill selector that displays all the drills between 50% and 90% for the tap selected
[15:06:06] <JT-Shop> in python gtk glade
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[15:08:45] <JT-Shop> and sqlite to store the tap and drill data in
[15:09:23] <pilla_> -.- that took waaaaaaaaaaaaay longer than expected
[15:10:32] <pilla_> I forgot who was helping me some hours ago ;..;
[15:10:56] <pilla_> I had to leave since another class wa about to begin, and my laptop doesnt work on the wireless network
[15:11:26] <pilla_> and then my bf picked me up and we went shopping. Long story short, I poofed for much longer than I intended to XD
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[15:26:08] <skunkworks> We don't get many of you on this channel....
[15:26:18] <JT-Shop> LOL
[15:26:53] <JT-Shop> http://blindhogg.com/eerfgrinder.html
[15:31:52] <awallin> why such a long belt, if the grinding is against the big wheel anyway?
[15:32:27] <JT-Shop> some have flat surfaces and reconfigure the grinder to the job
[15:32:42] <JT-Shop> otherwise I dunno...
[15:33:06] <skunkworks> pilla_, are you using pcb-gcode in eagle?
[15:33:28] <skunkworks> pcb2gcode
[15:39:11] <skunkworks> never mind.. (googled pcb2gcode)
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[15:45:59] <Jymmm> Other than "shim stock", where would (or what industries) would you find 0.010" (0.254mm) stainless steel used in?
[15:47:06] <Jymmm> The only other item I can think of is smd stencils
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[15:54:05] <pcw_home> and thats pretty thick for SMD stencils
[15:55:08] <Jymmm> is it?
[15:55:15] <pcw_home> yes
[15:55:51] <pcw_home> typical stencils are 5-6 mills
[15:56:13] <Jymmm> ah
[15:56:34] <pcw_home> Im sure its available for cases where you want a lot of solder
[15:56:44] <Jymmm> sure
[15:57:33] <pcw_home> must be a material you can just buy in bulk somewhwre
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[15:58:56] <JT-Shop> how hard and wide?
[15:59:31] <JT-Shop> http://www.mcmaster.com/#shim-stock/=jou5n8
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[16:11:34] <Jymmm> I've found the material, I'm looking for the industries that use it (other than shim stock)
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[16:15:06] <JT-Shop-2> gotcha
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[16:43:33] <tjb1> JT-Shop: You awake?
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[17:08:45] <jthornton> it's mighty close to nap time
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[17:12:15] <tjb1> That touchoff, is it missing a G91 move?
[17:12:38] <jthornton> which touchoff?
[17:12:41] <tjb1> The z.070 on the one you have uploaded
[17:12:45] <tjb1> torch touchoff
[17:13:02] <tjb1> Nevermind…the g91 is right above it.
[17:13:05] <jthornton> if it is the one I use it is complete
[17:13:15] <tjb1> It was late last night when I was doing that
[17:13:26] <jthornton> understand
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[17:13:48] <tjb1> I did get the touchoff and wait for arc to work
[17:14:18] <tjb1> I cant get a proper pierce and cutting height though because of the shield I have
[17:14:54] <jthornton> why
[17:14:54] <tjb1> I could propably put the gouging shield on the torch
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[17:15:17] <tjb1> The shield on it is preset for dragging torch so its already set at like .1"
[17:15:42] <jthornton> oh you have the drag shield
[17:15:53] <tjb1> Its what came on the hand torch
[17:15:56] <jthornton> you need the machine torch shield that lets the tip stick out
[17:16:15] <jthornton> you using the hand torch?
[17:16:21] <tjb1> yes
[17:16:40] <jthornton> machine shield should fit
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[17:17:40] <tjb1> Shield I have is 220675, thats the gouge shield but the nozzle its about flush with the end of it
[17:18:39] <jthornton> that would work, I don't know the number of the one I use it is out in the shop
[17:18:52] <tjb1> http://www.kaboodle.com/hi/img/b/0/0/13b/3/AAAACx8l9EAAAAAAATs1Wg.jpg?v=1300478484000
[17:19:04] <tjb1> Machine shield is 220673
[17:20:41] <tjb1> I have 4 electronics/nozzles left :)
[17:20:47] <tjb1> electrodes...
[17:21:25] <tjb1> Here is where I got last night - http://www.facebook.com/v/4435982933679
[17:21:57] <jthornton> normal shield 120979 is the one I use
[17:22:39] <tjb1> What cutter you using?
[17:23:00] <jthornton> ouch, I would not use a prox like that
[17:23:05] <jthornton> T80M
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[17:23:40] <tjb1> why not?
[17:23:55] <jthornton> if anything goes wrong the prox is destroyed
[17:24:17] <jthornton> we never use a prox like that
[17:24:53] <tjb1> The prox was $2 :P
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[17:25:07] <IchGuckLive> Hi All
[17:25:31] <jthornton> still a bad engineering practice even if someone gave you the prox
[17:27:03] <tjb1> I dont think that stepper could hurt it
[17:27:37] <TekniQue> what are we talking about?
[17:27:43] <TekniQue> what's wrong there?
[17:28:50] <tjb1> If a problem arrises I will move it
[17:29:13] <FinboySlick> tjb1: Your big green machine is coming along nicely.
[17:30:27] <tjb1> Thanks FinboySlick
[17:30:46] <tjb1> jthornton: What if I locktite the top nut, loosen the bottom one about .5" and put a spring in there?
[17:30:50] <tjb1> ;)
[17:30:52] <TekniQue> tjb1: are they talking about the proximity sensor used to detect torch height?
[17:30:59] <tjb1> Yes TekniQue
[17:31:10] <TekniQue> I don't see what's wrong with that approach
[17:31:23] <TekniQue> I mean, that's what these sensors are for
[17:31:24] <tjb1> If Z doesnt stop it runs into the prox sensor
[17:31:27] <jthornton> I'm not saying you need to move that one, just pointing out it is a bad method to use a prox unless you have a physical stop for the target
[17:31:28] <TekniQue> sure
[17:31:41] <TekniQue> my machine would run into the homing sensors if it didn't stop
[17:32:08] <jthornton> common practice is to pass the target across the face of the prox
[17:32:16] <tjb1> I might just put a spring on there anyway…anything over 35ipm and its hitting the prox
[17:32:35] <TekniQue> jthornton: but is that as precise as running up to the face of the sensor?
[17:32:43] <jthornton> yep
[17:33:57] <tjb1> jthornton: on yours, is the .070 the distance between the bottom of floating and tripping the switch?
[17:34:42] <jthornton> the distance the Z moves from the time the tip contacts the work and the switch trips
[17:35:06] <jthornton> I think you said the same thing
[17:35:40] <tjb1> ALright good, thanks
[17:36:38] <tjb1> Im going to add a shcs to mine right where the prox senses the floating plate to adjust it down, its currently at .608 and takes a while :)
[17:37:19] <jthornton> :)
[17:38:26] <tjb1> Working on gantry wire chain now
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[17:49:15] <IchGuckLive> open office base is so fustrating
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[18:57:01] <mrsun_> 60 vs 45 degree dovetails ?
[18:57:11] <mrsun_> advantages?
[18:57:54] <archivist> depends where the dovetails are used :)
[18:58:27] <archivist> my first dovetails were in a cabinet at school
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[18:59:02] <mrsun_> in machines =)
[18:59:06] <mrsun_> found a forum thread about it
[18:59:13] <mrsun_> aparently depending on how the forces act
[18:59:50] <archivist> my sliding head has an unusual dovetail with a taper gib in the same direction as the dovetail
[19:00:49] <archivist> has edge screws to adjust rather than end like many taper gibs
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[19:09:01] <mrsun_> aparently neither 45 nor 60 degree is good :P
[19:09:54] <archivist> url?
[19:10:24] <mrsun_> http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/general/dovetail-angles-140531/#post687024
[19:10:32] <mrsun_> thats one person tho
[19:13:47] <archivist> some prefer rectangular, but there are reasons to prefer one design over another depending on machine use and forces
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[19:18:14] <mrsun_> rectangular as in box section or whatever its called? :)
[19:21:07] <archivist> my drill column I am about to use for the 5 axis was rectangular
[19:23:05] <archivist> there was a site showing the various types
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[19:23:56] <ReadError> *sigh*
[19:24:01] <ReadError> been lookin at some bigger mills
[19:24:08] <ReadError> and the spindle speeds seem so slow
[19:24:20] <ReadError> im pretty sure i need a higher speed for some of the stuff im doing
[19:24:21] <FinboySlick> ReadError: You want mine? It's got 24krpm.
[19:24:32] <ReadError> whatcha got
[19:24:50] <FinboySlick> Hehehe, a piece of crap.
[19:24:59] <FinboySlick> But I'll send if your way for 10k.
[19:26:43] <archivist> hmm useful service near me http://www.slidewayservices.co.uk/capacity.html
[19:27:30] <FinboySlick> archivist: Oooh, I could send my table there.
[19:28:10] <archivist> there should be a service like that near you
[19:28:19] <FinboySlick> archivist: Nothing is near me.
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[19:28:26] <FinboySlick> I'm in eastern Quebec.
[19:29:36] <archivist> http://www.manta.com/ic/mt6dcz1/ca/precision-slideway-grinding-inc
[19:31:57] <FinboySlick> archivist: That one is is 1565km away if I'm driving.
[19:32:16] <archivist> just down the road!
[19:32:21] <FinboySlick> Might make it around 1000km by plane if I build an airport.
[19:33:42] <FinboySlick> archivist: I do have half a mind to send it to a shop that could get everything squared up and straight though.
[19:33:53] <FinboySlick> If I can find one that is.
[19:35:06] <archivist> or get a copy of Machine tool reconditioning and applications of hand scraping and do it the hard way
[19:35:36] <FinboySlick> archivist: If I had an actual workshop, I would. This thing is in what used to be a bedroom.
[19:36:00] <FinboySlick> Building a real workshop is in the plans though.
[19:36:03] <archivist> my 5 axis is in a bedroom
[19:36:30] <FinboySlick> archivist: Got video of it?
[19:36:58] <tjb1> Anyone had the problem where linuxcnc wouldtn wake up?
[19:37:10] <FinboySlick> tjb1: Does it ever sleep?
[19:37:21] <tjb1> It might, Ill have to check
[19:37:25] <FinboySlick> I thought it was like that girl in "The Ring."
[19:37:28] <tjb1> I mean ubuntu it self
[19:37:32] <FinboySlick> Oh.
[19:38:11] <FinboySlick> Depending on your chipset, suspend to ram can get iffy. I imagine a RT kernel would make that worse.
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[19:39:05] <tjb1> Looking suspend up now, seems like it is the problem
[19:39:22] <archivist> tjb1, I have seen that on a particular pc, I had to reboot and got into x rescue
[19:39:43] <archivist> but that hardware is now dead :)
[19:39:47] <tjb1> After I turned off lock at idle it wont turn back on
[19:39:53] <tjb1> Well it wont wake up and I have to restart it
[19:42:18] <tjb1> alright brb
[19:42:34] <archivist> FinboySlick, my videos were when it was still 4 axis and never show the whole thing
[19:42:55] <FinboySlick> archivist: Timidmill ;)
[19:43:19] <archivist> http://www.youtube.com/user/davethearchivist?feature=mhee
[19:44:32] <archivist> when it was at work http://www.archivist.info/cnc/stage7/
[19:45:22] <FinboySlick> That's about the same size as mine.
[19:45:45] <archivist> but uglier :)
[19:45:55] <FinboySlick> I'm betting straighter too ;)
[19:47:28] <FinboySlick> archivist: Question on the linear rails on your Z axis...
[19:47:35] <archivist> straightness was not too important at the time as it was made for just cutting a gear face, the X and Y slides are from a tool setting machine
[19:47:44] <FinboySlick> If you pop these off the rails, do you get a rain of ballbearings?
[19:48:13] <archivist> those are retained and dont fall out
[19:48:31] <FinboySlick> OK. That's a worry of mine if I do decide to take it appart and fix it.
[19:48:58] <FinboySlick> I don't have the little plastic inserts to slide in there if they aren't retained. But it seems like the same type of rails.
[19:50:46] <archivist> see the clinometer in the lower middle http://www.archivist.info/cnc/stage4/P2030011.JPG, that was used to set the Z axis rails vertical
[19:51:46] <FinboySlick> archivist: How precise are those?
[19:52:09] <archivist> resolution is a minute
[19:53:07] <archivist> biggest problem was the wooden floor moving when walking around the machine
[19:54:20] <FinboySlick> archivist: Yeah, I'll definitely get that too. First part of my workshop project is to setup a nice concrete slab for my machine(s). I plan to add a lathe at some point.
[19:54:28] <archivist> but it fell off the bench and broke the bubble, cost me £80 to get a new bubble for it
[19:54:54] <FinboySlick> Oh they work like bubble levers?
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[19:55:20] <FinboySlick> Um... Not lever... 'Niveau' in french. I guess litteral translation is level?
[19:56:33] <archivist> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hilger-Watts-Precision-Clinometer-TB9008-1-with-case-/150655237207?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item2313c07c57
[19:56:46] <archivist> I never paid that much
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[19:58:11] <archivist> you should be able to get something like http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HILGER-WATTS-8-Precision-Square-Block-Level-Machine-Level-/170707152364?pt=UK_Measuring_Tools_Levels&hash=item27bef06dec
[19:58:18] <archivist> for about £100
[20:01:20] <archivist> Im a sucker for measuring tools
[20:03:09] <FinboySlick> I like the good stuff too. Measures should never be ambiguous ;)
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[20:04:21] <FinboySlick> What's the green machine in the back of your latest link?
[20:04:32] empire is now known as skunkworks_
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[20:04:57] <FinboySlick> Back of a horizontal mill?
[20:05:03] <archivist> mikron hobbing machine
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[20:05:48] <archivist> top left pic is in action http://gears.archivist.info/
[20:06:57] <archivist> it did not follow me home when I left grrrrr
[20:08:27] <archivist> full frontal http://www.archivist.info/cnc/works2008/P1010240.JPG
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[20:27:43] <JT-Shop> yea some of the metering valves arrived
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[20:43:11] <JT-Shop> http://wot.motortrend.com/nhtsa-warns-counterfeit-airbags-may-not-deploy-could-shoot-shrapnel-273983.html
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[21:05:05] <skunkworks> if your going to the trouble of making counterfit airbags.. Why put anything in them?
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[21:06:45] <DJ9DJ> gn8
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