#linuxcnc | Logs for 2012-09-19

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[00:05:46] <JT-Shop> your welcome
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[00:33:46] <Tekrad> anyone here interested in a small job? I just need a relatively simple part cut on a CNC lathe x100 pcs. I have IGES and drawing.
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[00:34:22] <JT-Shop> what part of the world are you in?
[00:34:32] <Tekrad> maybe 50 pcs depending on the cost
[00:34:36] <Tekrad> north america
[00:34:50] <JT-Shop> what size is the part?
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[00:35:45] <Tekrad> 0.465" OD
[00:36:00] <Tekrad> acetel/delrin
[00:36:13] <JT-Shop> how long is the part?
[00:36:26] <Tekrad> 0.1" tall
[00:36:29] <Tekrad> small
[00:36:31] <JT-Shop> my CHNC is a chucker lathe
[00:37:03] <JT-Shop> got a link to the iges?
[00:37:13] <Tekrad> sure...sec
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[00:39:00] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, how's the conversion going?
[00:39:53] <JT-Shop> just waiting on some sealtite to run from the button box to the 7i77 and cyphering how I want to put the parallel cable through the cabinet
[00:40:17] <JT-Shop> pretty close to being done and now I have to build a touch probe :)
[00:40:30] <Tom_itx> mound a db25 to the case
[00:40:38] <Tom_itx> is what i did
[00:40:44] <Tom_itx> mount*
[00:41:07] <Tekrad> I've got a manual lathe but I don't want to make multiples with it :\
[00:41:35] <Tekrad> jthornton: priv message sent
[00:41:41] <Tekrad> JT-Shop: priv message sent
[00:41:42] <Tekrad> sorry
[00:41:46] <Tekrad> damm autocomplete :P
[00:43:09] <JT-Shop> looking at the part and that is me too but down in the beer cave
[00:43:30] <Tekrad> cool
[00:43:43] <Tekrad> I am going to walk the dog...I'll be back in 20
[00:43:50] <Tekrad> ish
[00:44:17] <JT-Shop> I can't hold those tolerances in delrin
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[00:46:42] <JT-Shop> time for me to head inside
[00:46:46] <JT-Shop> goodnight guys
[00:46:57] <Tom_itx> laters
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[01:09:53] <Tom_itx> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=_vo4VAxtZSs#!
[01:10:02] <Tom_itx> for all you bikers
[01:16:05] <s1dev> see second comment
[01:18:56] <s1dev> what's your favorite place to get metals? Tom_itx
[01:19:08] <Tom_itx> my local surplus
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[01:51:26] <tjb1_> Anyone know of good articles on high speed machining?
[01:52:00] <Tekrad> Anything by M.C. Shaw
[01:52:36] <s1dev> Tekrad http://math.nd.edu/people/faculty/mei-chi-shaw/ :P
[01:52:49] <Tekrad> not mei-chi
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[02:52:22] <tjb1> Nothing like writing a 6 page paper in an hour
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[03:15:35] <s1dev> tjb1 ouch, what's the topic?
[03:15:46] <tjb1> high speed machining
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[03:47:00] <r00t4rd3d> http://i.imgur.com/RvAxP.gif
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[04:25:24] <tjb1> hey r00t
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[04:42:53] <nmz787> r00t4rd3d: heh heh
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[06:15:44] <Loetmichel> mornin'
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[06:18:17] <nmz787> what is the max speed in khz that linuxcnc can send out steps?
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[07:10:49] <Valen> nmz787: linuxcnc doesn't have a limit
[07:10:57] <Valen> its limited by your hardware
[07:11:08] <Valen> and add a mesa card and even that pretty much goes away
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[07:29:36] <nmz787> ahh i thought linuxcnc primarily used the parallel port
[07:31:28] <Jymmm> Many use mesa hardware to get past paraport limitations
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[07:45:18] <Valen> I've never used a pport linuxcnc machine lol
[07:45:26] <Valen> linuxcnc is too long, i miss emc
[07:46:35] <Jymmm> heh
[07:47:48] <psha[work]> Valen: emc lawyers are at your door
[07:48:02] <Valen> i know i know
[07:48:04] <Valen> wankers
[07:48:09] <psha[work]> clean up irc history!
[08:02:10] <nmz787> how does mesa solve step speed issues?
[08:02:26] <nmz787> does it just upload a precomputed path to the micro/fpga?
[08:02:41] <nmz787> or does it stream it there in chunks?
[08:02:53] <Valen> in between those
[08:02:58] <Jymmm> Mesa *IS* a fpga
[08:03:14] <Valen> the way emc works is it has a servo thread and a motion thread
[08:03:40] <Valen> the motion thread is responsible for putting out steps at a rate told to it by the servo thread
[08:03:59] <Valen> mesa basically puts the motion thread into the FPGA
[08:04:08] <Valen> its pretty minimal what its used for really
[08:04:13] <Valen> "step at this rate"
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[08:04:28] <Valen> then that rate is updated by the servo thread (default 1khz i think)
[08:04:45] <nmz787> i dont see anything on mesanet.com about steppers
[08:05:12] <Valen> they have stepper driver boards, you link them to an anything io board
[08:05:21] <Valen> or use geckos or whatever
[08:05:40] <nmz787> emc?
[08:05:49] <Valen> the hostmot2 firmware is what gets loaded by EMC into the anythingio board
[08:05:58] <Valen> emc = old name for linuxcnc
[08:06:01] <nmz787> o
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[08:06:19] <nmz787> so do you use emc instead of linuxcnc?
[08:06:26] <Valen> damn lawyers contributing to the eventual demise of society
[08:06:38] <Valen> they are the exact same thing
[08:06:57] <Valen> somebody did a find/replace for EMC/LinuxCNC in the source code
[08:07:01] * Valen ducks ;->
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[08:07:44] <Jymmm> s/Valen//
[08:08:09] <Jymmm> s/Valen/\0/
[08:08:27] <Jymmm> Valen: You've been NULLed =)
[08:08:54] <Jymmm> Valen: You are not even nothing, you are less than nothing =)
[08:09:27] <Valen> sif
[08:09:37] <Valen> nulls are a pain in the ass and *far* too much work
[08:09:51] <Jymmm> Valen: Turn in your LinuxCNC ISO and don't left the swarf hit you on the way out!
[08:10:01] <Jymmm> let
[08:11:35] * Valen loves it when a null unexpectedly creeps into code
[08:12:16] <Jymmm> as the hidden char?
[08:12:21] <nmz787> does it matter which anything io board you use?
[08:12:52] <nmz787> does linuxcnc allow you to specify accelleration profiles?
[08:13:16] <nmz787> and change step frequency on the fly (changing from microstepping to full stepping as you speed up)
[08:13:32] <nmz787> i would think a chirp function would be the best accell profil
[08:14:03] <Valen> changing step size is generally a bad idea
[08:14:12] <Valen> your more likley to hit a resonance
[08:14:36] <Valen> is there any paticular reason for your fascination with step rate?
[08:14:49] <Valen> i'm not a stepper person, but its generally not a limit is it?
[08:15:35] * Jymmm returns to practice exam
[08:16:12] <nmz787> why would you hit a resonance if timed correctly?
[08:16:43] <nmz787> if I don't change step rates, at max speed that i want, it would be 342khz
[08:17:27] <nmz787> and I've read that full-stepping is overall more reproducible than microstepping, due to the magnetic field not following a sine wave perfectly
[08:18:34] <Jymmm> nmz787: Reading ALL of this may be helpful to you (you can download the PDF) http://www.geckodrive.com/support/step-motor-basics.html
[08:18:44] <nmz787> btw http://diyhpl.us/laser_etcher/laser_etcher/#index7h1
[08:18:57] <Valen> uhhh "it depends"
[08:19:38] <Valen> 40 tpi is pretty fine
[08:20:41] <Valen> i believe generally the rule of thumb is your "resolution" is going to be about 1/2 a step, the microstepping is actually generally used to keep things smoother
[08:21:09] <Valen> if you want it to be *fast* then don't use steppers
[08:21:31] <Valen> also dont use acme
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[08:21:43] <nmz787> why not acme?
[08:21:56] <Valen> lots of friction
[08:22:14] <Jymmm> nmz787: is that your page?
[08:22:16] <Loetmichel> Valen: that depends on the nut
[08:22:16] <Valen> how many RPM are you planning on running that leadscrew at over what distance and what diamiter is it?
[08:22:47] <Valen> Loetmichel: some, but if you anti-backlash at all its going to be lots more than a ballscrew, and these guys seem interested in speed
[08:23:09] <Jymmm> nmz787: If you are building a laser. why even use leadscrews at all? Use belts
[08:23:13] <nmz787> Jymmm: yes
[08:23:15] <Loetmichel> if you use a delron/pom nut or better a special plastic with talc in it you have not nuch more friction than a ball bearing thread
[08:23:36] <Loetmichel> delrin
[08:23:37] <nmz787> Jymmm: belts seem like they'd be even less predictable
[08:23:49] <Valen> except he is going to be doing eleventy million RPM with a 40 tpi acme
[08:24:01] <Valen> something like a 16 tpi ballscrew if you want speed
[08:24:11] <Jymmm> nmz787: Most 250W or less laser use belts.
[08:24:13] <Loetmichel> i would opt to a acme or ballscrew wit a very low tpi
[08:24:26] <Valen> are you rastering or vector cutting?
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[08:24:33] <Loetmichel> for a lasercutter
[08:24:36] <Jymmm> Valen: both
[08:24:47] <Loetmichel> its more predictable/rrigid than a belt
[08:24:55] <Valen> has anybody solved the EMC + raster issue?
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[08:25:00] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: My laser uses belts
[08:25:03] <Loetmichel> if you have high accelereations and g-forces
[08:25:22] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: It's moving a mirroro with zero force involved.
[08:25:23] <Valen> Loetmichel: *much* higher inertia though
[08:25:43] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: there are no cutting forces involved.
[08:25:43] <nmz787> 3280 RPM
[08:25:43] <Loetmichel> i have seen pick&place bots using ballscrews wiht 1tpi
[08:25:46] <Valen> if you want fast raster type operation inertia would be your limiting factor
[08:26:15] <Loetmichel> but i recon: the murror/lens head of a laser is MUCH lighter than a pichup hhead
[08:26:28] <Valen> btw nmz787 be wary of VXB for bearings
[08:26:35] <nmz787> I am using CW laser with vector type stuff
[08:26:43] <Valen> so no raster?
[08:26:47] <nmz787> I am using a blu-ray writer diode
[08:26:50] <nmz787> no raster
[08:26:59] <nmz787> i do not want the laser to turn off
[08:27:00] <Valen> heh, your not going to be going that fast anyway ;-P
[08:27:10] <nmz787> ?
[08:27:20] <Valen> if you want constant laser power you need *lots* of acceleration
[08:27:29] <nmz787> what do you mean?
[08:27:36] <Valen> people with 20W lasers don't move that fast ;->
[08:27:37] <nmz787> i should have more than enough power
[08:27:56] <nmz787> I'm focusing to a <=5 micron spot size
[08:28:13] <nmz787> and cutting about 50-300 microns thick of material
[08:28:40] <Valen> this a uni project or something?
[08:28:57] <Jymmm> Valen: This was rastered http://i54.tinypic.com/k2mo7n.jpg
[08:29:06] <Valen> Jymmm: nice
[08:29:23] <Valen> heard you can use spray on moly to etch stainless etc with bog standard lasers?
[08:29:38] <Valen> its whats in that $100 a can "ceramic" stuff
[08:29:43] <Jymmm> Valen: thanks
[08:30:00] <Valen> how long did that take?
[08:30:33] <Jymmm> Valen: CO2 Laser under 250W can not mark metal, but it can "cure" a spray on permanent coating for metal.
[08:30:42] <Jymmm> Valen: to engrave?
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[08:31:12] <Valen> http://www.louispickering.com/index.php/tutorials/10-laser-engrave-metal-with-a-low-power-laser
[08:31:19] <Jymmm> Valen: 20minutes run time, 12"x12"
[08:31:57] <Jymmm> Valen: That's the "permanent coating" I was speaking of
[08:32:17] <Valen> still rather cheaper than the $100 a can stuff
[08:32:18] <nmz787> Valen: not a uni project, but it was born out of my uni studies
[08:32:47] <Valen> If you want a high speed machine I would build it thusly
[08:32:58] <Valen> heavy (physically heavy) base
[08:33:09] <Valen> lowish TPI ballscrews
[08:33:22] <Valen> with light antibacklash loading in them
[08:33:31] <Valen> servo driven
[08:33:46] <Jymmm> Valen: I'll try the moly, I know of "other" things that will mark, but more of a grey/whitish color
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[08:34:06] <Valen> I think they do the same thing with my stainless steel pans
[08:34:10] <Valen> its pretty permanent there
[08:34:51] <nmz787> the ragged walls like in this paper are what i want to avoid http://diyhpl.us/~nmz787/jmm9_3_037002.pdf
[08:35:32] <nmz787> Jymmm: I think there is cheaper moly spray for bike maintenance
[08:36:00] <Jymmm> Thermark is HEAVILY patented, to even say XYZ will mark metal (commercially) will get you a letter from a lawyer
[08:36:22] <Valen> because they know their only real ingredient is moly? lol
[08:36:28] <nmz787> well i was planning on just moving the material around, and it will probably only be about 20 or 30 grams
[08:37:01] <Jymmm> Valen: It's not moly per-se but a mineral based
[08:37:39] <nmz787> I know cdroms have pretty low TPI, but they also have error correction built in on the data side
[08:38:04] <nmz787> so they can get away with overshooting then tracking back with a fine adjustment
[08:40:38] <Valen> in metric units, what resolution and repeatability do you need?
[08:40:48] <Valen> also have you confirmed your feed rates?
[08:41:45] <nmz787> I desire <=5 microns resolution, preferably <=1micron
[08:42:07] <nmz787> does repeatability mean from full job to full job
[08:42:21] <nmz787> or repeatability from parallel line starting point to the next?
[08:43:03] <nmz787> repeatability should be <=1 micron
[08:43:20] <nmz787> feed rates meaning the max speed I want and cutting ability?
[08:43:42] <nmz787> I haven't confirmed this, but it should be fine from the calculations I've done
[08:44:23] <nmz787> I could slow up the feed rate, or possibly increase the laser power as well, if tests show that is needed
[08:45:11] <Jymmm> Valen: Thanks, I'll check that out
[08:45:54] <nmz787> I am aiming for rapid iteration through designs, so ideally I'd wait ~15 minutes per job, but I think 1 to 1.5 hours is the max before other methods start to be competitive
[08:46:00] <nmz787> (non CNC methods)
[08:46:44] <Valen> right your accuracy requirements are *way* higher than most CnC equipment
[08:47:01] <Valen> by a decimal place
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[08:47:15] <Valen> your in big boy territory
[08:48:27] <Valen> I'd suggest doing something similar to what we have done, we have .001mm glass scales on our mill, use that for positioning, and have something with ~10x that for PID loop control
[08:48:29] <nmz787> so is 3k rpm too high for most motors? stepper or not?
[08:48:45] <Jymmm> Valen: Heh, OEM750's have 50K microstepping =)
[08:48:48] <Valen> I don't know steppers that well but i think so
[08:49:03] <Valen> Jymmm: yeah and what accuracy to they claim? ;-P
[08:49:16] <Jymmm> Valen: that's the driver
[08:49:41] <Jymmm> Valen: used in wafer fab
[08:49:48] <nmz787> your microstepping is pretty much limited by your DAC technique
[08:49:49] <archivist_> nmz787, for speed use servos
[08:50:38] <nmz787> archivist_: i'm not sure if 2 meters per minute is fast or not
[08:50:53] <nmz787> and precision trumps speed
[08:51:00] <nmz787> well, precision and accuracy
[08:51:14] <archivist_> you also need closed loop control which is far better with serve
[08:51:20] <archivist_> servos
[08:51:57] <archivist_> microstepping does not mean improved accuracy also
[08:52:56] <archivist_> http://www.micromo.com/microstepping-myths-and-realities.aspx
[08:52:57] <nmz787> Valen: i know of hemocytometers for small grids
[08:57:02] <nmz787> Valen: can you get what you're talking about in a 6 inch (10 cm) square?
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[08:59:54] <nmz787> valen http://www.thorlabs.com/thorProduct.cfm?partNumber=R1L3S3P
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[09:02:51] <nmz787> has anyone here used interferometry as feedback?
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[09:03:17] <nmz787> that would really be the way to go, except that i'd need my lab to be in some granite cave
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[09:22:03] <archivist_> nmz787, voice coil acuator and lvdt feedback maybe
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[11:26:45] <gmagno> (THIS TOTALLY OFFTOPIC) hey, sorry to ask this here, but I know there are german ppl here that may help me. THere's a chance of me going to work to southern germany. I'm not sure about the salary being good or not. For a 3 years experienced electronics enginneer, would a 42000euro/year be good? How much money would it means, after taxes?
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[11:33:42] <theos> gmagno join ##deutsch
[11:34:23] <gmagno> theos: ah, great! Thanks
[11:34:30] <theos> :D
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[12:38:22] <V0idExp> Hi all
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[12:40:21] <V0idExp> i have a problem with an axis
[12:40:50] <V0idExp> it is a stepper driven axis
[12:41:12] <V0idExp> i have a backlash error to be compensated
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[12:42:52] <V0idExp> the problem is that the error depends on relative distances and not on absolute ones
[12:43:39] <jthornton> see COMP_FILE http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/config/ini_config.html#_axis_lt_num_gt_section_a_id_sub_axis_section_a
[12:43:47] <V0idExp> in other words if i go to 100 starting from 50 is different from going to 100 starting from 99
[12:45:12] <V0idExp> the comp file is for relative distances (i.e. deltas) or for absolute positions along axis?
[12:45:36] <V0idExp> or it is possible to choose the type..
[12:46:04] <jthornton> absolute positions iirc
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[12:47:14] <V0idExp> so it compensates errors the same way if i go from 5 mm far or 50 mm far
[12:48:42] <V0idExp> i need something that take into account the relative distance (little error for little distance, greater (asinthotic error) error for greater distances)
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[13:04:30] <JT-Shop> you might have to write a comp to do that
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[13:06:38] <voidexp> Hi all
[13:06:55] <voidexp> my connection drop down
[13:07:29] <voidexp> have you wrote anything about my problem?
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[13:07:39] <voidexp> could you help me?
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[13:16:18] <archivist_> voidexp, fix the scale if it is a scale error
[13:16:42] <voidexp> it is not an error scale
[13:16:55] <voidexp> scale error..
[13:17:46] <voidexp> it depend from the delta (distance from the last point and the target destination of the axis)
[13:18:02] <voidexp> little delta little error, greater delta greater error...
[13:18:32] <voidexp> but the error never rise over 0.3 mm
[13:31:56] <archivist_> sounds like creep
[13:32:41] <voidexp> what creep means?
[13:35:14] <archivist_> slip between the drive and driven member
[13:35:50] <archivist_> creep is more definable than slip though
[13:36:49] <archivist_> eg a rubber roller miving something will creep because the drive pressure changes the effective roller diameter
[13:36:53] <voidexp> is there any software solution in order to compensate this kind of error?
[13:36:58] <archivist_> driving
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[13:37:52] <archivist_> feedback roller to measure the real movement
[13:39:10] <voidexp> i have see the problem by measuring some axis position with a 3d scanner system (romer absolute arm)
[13:40:02] <voidexp> so i'm sure about the error and i can measure it very well but i've not any way to mechanically correct it
[13:40:28] <voidexp> so the only way it would be a software solution
[13:41:04] <archivist_> a fiddle to the scale will be a partial solution
[13:41:23] <archivist_> feedback is better though
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[13:42:25] <tjb1_> r00t4rd3d:
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[14:13:32] <treats> What does EMC stand for in this context?
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[14:14:35] <L84Supper> treats, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LinuxCNC
[14:20:47] <skunkworks> that isn't quite correct... The inital system wasn't linux but NT based
[14:22:26] <Valen> voidexp: can you locate the source of the error?
[14:22:59] <Valen> that is perhaps a better use of your time than fixing it in software
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[14:24:54] <treats> L84Supper: thanks
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[15:26:18] <archivist_> rob_h, any idea where round steel suitable for old automatics can be found (was ground iirc) seems missing from macready's (acenta)
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[15:31:48] <archivist_> found some but not to the collet size I have http://www.steelexpress.co.uk/engineeringsteel/EN1A.html
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[16:08:07] <DJ9DJ> tag
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[16:13:28] <tjb1> your it
[16:16:51] <tjb1> I will win the speaking to supervisor challenge
[16:16:56] <tjb1> They cant keep me on hold forever
[16:17:44] <Jymmm> "Thank you for holding, your estimated wait time is 14 days"
[16:19:15] <L84Supper> "you are now 35,678.945th in line for the next manager to assist you"
[16:20:38] <Jymmm> "If you would like to continue to hold, please press 4759875135598732179*64448843222254#1668877B465767C119973AAA within 15 seconds."
[16:21:45] <Jymmm> (and yes, A B C and D are valid DTMF tones, just not on phones =)
[16:21:55] <tjb1> bitch hung up on me
[16:22:11] <Jymmm> Did you call her a bitch?
[16:22:18] <tjb1> I told her im not calling an international number for save $1 and she hung up
[16:22:48] <Jymmm> and who/what are you calling in the first place?
[16:22:55] <tjb1> This crap card company
[16:23:01] <Jymmm> card?
[16:23:05] <tjb1> $3 fee for paypal use
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[16:23:22] <Jymmm> prepaid card?
[16:23:30] <tjb1> No the card our school forces us to use for refunds
[16:23:59] <Jymmm> ah
[16:24:00] <L84Supper> yeah, they make it difficult to research the fees when you open a new account at several banks
[16:24:32] <L84Supper> nothing in writing, and you get different answers based on which branch or manager you ask
[16:24:44] <tjb1> I cant speak to someone without listening to 5 minutes of recorded
[16:24:46] <tjb1> voice...
[16:25:08] <jdh> I have not.
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[16:25:43] <pcw_home> Thats the first level filter...
[16:26:03] <tjb1> Ha, I said "Can I speak to someone that knows english…" hungup...
[16:28:07] <L84Supper> heh
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[16:34:05] <skunkworks> why would you do this?
[16:34:07] <skunkworks> setp toggle2nist tmax 3607
[16:37:54] <JT-Shop> I have no idea why you would do anything but set it to 0
[16:40:52] <skunkworks> Isn't tmax a parameter that shows you the longest the comp took to run?
[16:41:02] <JT-Shop> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/hal/basic_hal.html#_hal_components
[16:41:04] <JT-Shop> yep
[16:41:31] <skunkworks> I think it should be asked what that line supposidly fixed?
[16:42:04] <skunkworks> look - it is in the manual.
[16:42:07] <skunkworks> heh
[16:42:30] <JT-Shop> I asked that queston some time ago and put the answer in the manual
[16:42:37] <skunkworks> It is rw but again- I don't know why you would set it other than to reset it.
[16:42:56] <tjb1> Dirty pricks, if any of your kids go to college and they try to refund to a "HigherOne" account say no.
[16:43:46] <tjb1> If you leave any amount of money in the account for months unattended they will start a $10 a month fee
[16:44:27] <skunkworks> JT-Shop, I started a reply... DId you?
[16:44:43] <JT-Shop> yes
[16:45:35] <skunkworks> Ok. - go for it.
[16:46:08] <JT-Shop> all ready did a while ago
[16:47:08] <skunkworks> oh
[16:48:26] <skunkworks> Got it
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[16:53:21] <IchGuckLive> Hi all
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[17:11:19] <IchGuckLive> Folks can you all pleas have alock at the New JHTML page i made if the Carousell turns with the pictures of the XmasCircus ->http://www.landauer-weihnachtscircus.de/lwch1/ht_foto_1213.html
[17:11:50] <IchGuckLive> Thanks
[17:12:33] <IchGuckLive> if you move the mouse over the pic it shoudt stop moving
[17:12:34] <cncbasher> yes it works here
[17:12:43] <IchGuckLive> B) :D
[17:14:01] <andypugh> Woks in Safari/Mac too.
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[17:14:26] <Jymmm> andypugh: You are using Safari?
[17:14:48] <andypugh> Yes.
[17:15:12] <Jymmm> andypugh: LOTS of security holes, fyi.
[17:15:31] <JT-Shop> works for me but makes me dizzy
[17:19:34] <IchGuckLive> JT-Shop: Artist love dizzy
[17:21:52] <JT-Shop> lol
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[17:29:17] <IchGuckLive> What is the English word for the Squarehole inside a Drill to get the Force thrue the connection
[17:29:37] <IchGuckLive> the tool that makes the squarhole
[17:30:03] <IchGuckLive> my translater strike on this
[17:30:45] <IchGuckLive> Loetmichel: ? Räumnadel eng.
[17:32:11] <IchGuckLive> BroachPushChipBreakers is this wright
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[17:36:14] <andypugh> Morticing chisel?
[17:36:41] <jthornton> broach?
[17:49:40] <IchGuckLive> broch seams to be wright
[17:56:20] <nmz787> IchGuckLive: chuck?
[17:57:09] <pcw_home> bobuck
[17:58:41] <IchGuckLive> nothing on ebay to found on this
[17:59:03] <nmz787> IchGuckLive: http://www.newmantools.com/jacobs/Image159.gif
[17:59:24] <IchGuckLive> http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archivo:BroachPushChipBreakers.jpg
[17:59:29] <nmz787> IchGuckLive: http://www.newmantools.com/jacobs/info.htm
[17:59:57] <IchGuckLive> nmz787: no
[18:00:14] <IchGuckLive> get a lok at the wikipedia image
[18:00:18] <nmz787> guess I'm not clear on what force you're talking about
[18:00:26] <nmz787> a drill applies rotational force
[18:00:31] <nmz787> to the drill bit
[18:00:43] <IchGuckLive> the connection between motor and pulley
[18:00:55] <IchGuckLive> with the square metal pice
[18:01:28] <IchGuckLive> http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archivo:BroachPushChipBreakers.jpg
[18:02:01] <IchGuckLive> isent there a chinese how sels this for some USD
[18:02:10] <IchGuckLive> i need 3,4,5mm
[18:02:11] <nmz787> IchGuckLive: see the diagrams of drill presses towards the bottom
[18:02:12] <nmz787> http://bbs.fobshanghai.com/thread-3914206-6-1.html
[18:02:57] <rob_h> archivist_, im not sure i dont know many with swiss or other sliding heads to ask , are you looking for a grade of metal?
[18:03:52] <nmz787> IchGuckLive: http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=51384
[18:04:12] <nmz787> "Drive out the rear quill lock sleeve (10) from the front then drive out the front sleeve from the rear................."
[18:04:20] <nmz787> maybe that?
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[18:04:38] <nmz787> Remove the feed stop collar (37)..................
[18:04:43] <IchGuckLive> nmz787: it6 has nothing to do with a drillpress
[18:04:49] <nmz787> oh, i meant "Slide the quill/spindle assembly out...................
[18:04:49] <nmz787> "
[18:05:08] <IchGuckLive> NP O.O
[18:05:21] <IchGuckLive> i give up fortoday
[18:05:29] <IchGuckLive> BY
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[18:05:58] <Jymmm> Talk Like a Pirate Day!!!
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[18:24:20] <skunkworks> arrrrr
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[18:39:07] <archivist_> rob_h, the earlier swiss lathes needed precision ground bar, later have a newer type of support collet that can take some variation in bar size
[18:39:46] <rob_h> yea i saw that when i was looking for machine info other day
[18:39:59] <rob_h> but surly it must still have to be fairly close for the speeds they run at
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[18:41:11] <archivist_> some have a rotating collet, mine is stationary and the bar is spinning in it
[18:41:17] <rob_h> what is silversteel like? it that close enuth for you on toll?
[18:41:29] <archivist_> probably yes
[18:42:33] <rob_h> like one job im doing now, using en16t, if i could get that in a good finish id be over the moon lol
[18:42:53] <rob_h> instead i have to centerless grind it... which has to be sent away
[18:42:55] <archivist_> just been freeing off the drilling attachment was siezed, may be usable
[18:43:15] <rob_h> grate
[18:43:29] <rob_h> i saw ur post on mail list about it
[18:44:02] <archivist_> the concurrent uncoordinated moves are the fun part
[18:44:42] <archivist_> lots to learn, I need some work for it
[18:45:11] <rob_h> yea i can see that being the problem on it
[18:45:48] <rob_h> same problem someone would have with machine with sub spindle and two or more turrets
[18:45:58] <archivist_> I happen to have 5mm push and support, and suppliers seem to think 4 and 6 are the right stuff!
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[18:47:47] <rob_h> ask these people
[18:47:47] <rob_h> http://toolsteels.co.uk/index.php
[18:47:56] <rob_h> i broght silversteel from them alot quite good prices too
[18:48:07] <rob_h> might be able to help you.. worth a try
[18:49:07] <archivist_> yup thanks
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[18:50:18] <archivist_> machine has a 4.5 metre bar feed, may shorten a bit as it is not straight
[18:50:48] <rob_h> most steel in 3m anyway
[18:51:38] <rob_h> i guess u might have to get soeone to centerless grind u stock?
[18:51:43] <archivist_> I have a local supplier too, will drop in to them tomorrow
[18:52:32] <rob_h> have to make a nice short magazine barfeed for it :)
[18:53:43] <archivist_> they did have a magazine feed for the later version, would probably suit this one too
[18:56:20] <rob_h> they cost so much tho even 2nd hand, we want one for the chnc
[18:57:58] <rob_h> gota pop out for abit now speak later
[19:00:03] <archivist_> tea time for me as well seeya
[19:02:53] <Jymmm> Speaking of Tea... anonymous binary file sharing https://FileTea.me/
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[19:31:27] <tjb1> hey Jymmm -y
[19:31:44] <Jymmm> Arrrrrrrrr
[19:32:13] <tjb1> Tonight I am gonna try to put my limit switches on
[19:32:27] <tjb1> What do I need to do in linuxcnc to make it read one home switch and home both x and a motors
[19:35:34] <JT-Shop> home is shared iirc
[19:36:25] <jdh> x and a are the same axis?
[19:37:49] <tjb1> yes
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[19:43:35] <tjb1> I envy people that can build a large 4x8 type machine out of nothing but aluminum extrusions
[19:44:10] <jdh> I envy people with enough room for a 4x8 machine.
[19:44:56] <tjb1> lol
[19:45:02] <tjb1> Have you seen mine?
[19:45:08] <jdh> well, unless they lived more than 30 miles from the ocean.
[19:45:19] <jdh> don't think so.
[19:45:29] -!- voiedexp [voiedexp!96d9fb47@gateway/web/freenode/ip.] has joined #linuxcnc
[19:45:41] <voiedexp> hi all
[19:45:58] <voiedexp> i am not able to solve my cnc problems
[19:46:01] <tjb1> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pD3zaRatH5M
[19:46:05] <tjb1> thats it right now jdh
[19:46:38] <jdh> nifty, did you make the frame?
[19:46:57] <tjb1> yes
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[19:48:53] <voiedexp> the problem now is the following: if i do a closed loop more than one time I see that the loop move to increasing X and the moving step is near to 1mm
[19:50:03] <voiedexp> could anyone help me in finding a solution..
[19:51:01] <skunkworks> voiedexp, more information...
[19:51:08] <voiedexp> the problem is that one axis (Y) work very well while the other (Y) gives me that problem
[19:51:22] <voiedexp> Y is well X is bad
[19:51:28] <voiedexp> sorry
[19:53:23] <voiedexp> if I make a rectangular loop with the rectangle parallel to the axes, i can see that the second time i perform the loop, one couple of side are still in the first position while the other couple of side have moved toward +Y of about 1mm
[19:54:47] <archivist_> stepper? are you accelerating too fast and losing steps
[19:54:51] <voiedexp> i.e. one axis repeat its behaviour loop by loop while the other seems to translate the coordinates toward Y+
[19:55:18] <archivist_> slow your acceleration and top speed see if it gets better
[19:55:36] <voiedexp> i've think about it by the behaviour is incredibly regular... 1mm each loop
[19:56:36] <voiedexp> i think it is diffucult to loose exactly the same amount of step each loop...
[19:57:17] <archivist_> dont assume test, measure
[19:57:42] <archivist_> slipping couplings too
[19:57:57] <voiedexp> and however my speed/acceleration is very slow and very similar to the other axis (same motor) that performs very well
[19:58:31] <archivist_> mass being moved is not the same though, another bad assumption
[19:59:03] <voiedexp> but the bad axis s the one with the lower mass to be moved
[19:59:10] <archivist_> specially if the gearing is different too
[19:59:43] <voiedexp> i'm trying to move with velolicity and acceleration very low
[19:59:56] <archivist_> directional friction is interesting too
[20:00:19] <voiedexp> i've not gears, stepper motors are directly connected with their guides
[20:02:30] <archivist_> show us pictures Im used to steppers driving the leadscrew or belt, guide?
[20:03:03] <DJ9DJ> gn8
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[20:04:25] <voiedexp> the steppers guide two belt guides
[20:05:07] <archivist_> guide is the wrong word
[20:05:56] <voiedexp> sorry, my english is not good
[20:07:07] <archivist_> is the belt too loose and it jumps one tooth
[20:08:11] <voiedexp> reducing speed and acceleration do not provide any result
[20:08:15] <voiedexp> :(
[20:09:27] <archivist_> "no result" ?
[20:11:17] <voiedexp> no "good" results...
[20:11:26] <voiedexp> poor results...
[20:18:10] <mrsun> yey my new vfd control card works perfectly =)
[20:18:35] <mrsun> it was even good enough for me to switch gnd and output and it didnt fry :P
[20:18:49] <Tom_itx> which card?
[20:19:28] <mrsun> homemade
[20:19:52] <mrsun> opto isolated card to control 3 digital pins on the vfd and pwm to analog =)
[20:21:20] <jdh> what did you use for the pwm filter?
[20:21:47] <mrsun> two low pass RC filters
[20:21:54] <mrsun> into a rail to rail input output opamp
[20:21:58] <jdh> how do you pick values?
[20:22:06] <mrsun> haha :P
[20:22:08] <mrsun> dont ask ..
[20:22:09] <mrsun> =)
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[20:22:52] <jdh> guess & try again?
[20:23:07] <mrsun> guess and it worked good :P
[20:23:40] <mrsun> and some help from pcw_home i think it was =)
[20:23:50] <mrsun> or alot of help =)
[20:24:55] <mrsun> also added a LM317 to get 10.37V without drawing current from the vfd and got some AC opto couplers and added option for how a bob works
[20:25:25] <mrsun> if it draws stuff low or if it wants to push stuff high (+5V common or GND common)
[20:25:32] <mrsun> kinda happy with the design =)
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[20:36:45] <voiedexp> there is something that make me sure that the mechanics work well.. changing the loop i have note that the "slip" is rise up to about 20 mm...
[20:38:19] <voiedexp> do you know any parameter that can provide this kind of translation between each loop? Note that on the AXIS gui i see only one loop and not many translated loops..
[20:39:41] <JT-Shop> no parameter that I know of
[20:39:51] <JT-Shop> are you missing steps?
[20:41:23] <voiedexp> that are not steps in my opinion
[20:42:31] <voiedexp> depending on the loops, with the same load on axes (very low) paths are very similar but translated
[20:42:57] <JT-Shop> can you try and explain what you mean my translated?
[20:43:16] <andypugh> voiedexp: I have seen some people have this problem when a pulley is slipping on a shaft, it's worth marking them with a pen. However it would not normally be so regular.
[20:44:08] <andypugh> I wonder if is is possible that electrical problems are sending the pulses for one axis to both?
[20:45:53] <andypugh> JT-Shop: Talking Swiss, the chap making the scale Ferrari engine has a swiss-style steady casting for his Hardinge. It bolts to the saddle, and takes the carbide-faced collets. It sits very close to the tool tip.
[20:48:40] <andypugh> I wonder if Ichgucklive was looking for "Key"?
[20:51:09] <JT-Shop> andypugh: I'd love to see a photo of that
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[20:52:33] <andypugh> He's not got it mounted at the moment (it came with the lathe) but if you imagine a conventional travelling steady which is an adjustable collet, then that is how it works.
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[20:54:18] <JT-Shop> does it mount to the back of the carriage by the turret encoder? I'm not seeing in my mind how that would work...
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[20:58:03] <andypugh> He has a different (4 way) toolpost. I am not sure if you can still do toolchanges with it fitted. My impresson is that the face of the collet is meant to be right up against the tool tip.
[20:58:56] <JT-Shop> I've seen a 4 position turret and yea I can imagine it if you don't spin the turret while it is on
[21:00:01] <andypugh> It's HXL
[21:00:03] <andypugh> http://www.f1-2000.co.uk/index.php?f=hardinge_hxl2
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[21:05:57] <JT-Shop> yes, quite different from mine and in some ways the same
[21:08:13] <tjb1> there a tutorial somewhere on how to setup limit switch to control 2 steppers or wiring all limit/home switches to one input and making it home one at a time?
[21:08:49] <JT-Shop> just the manual
[21:08:59] <tjb1> user manual or do I need to use HAL?
[21:09:14] <JT-Shop> integrator manual
[21:09:18] <JT-Shop> ini section
[21:10:12] <andypugh> tjb1: It's basically a case of giving them all a different homing sequence, setting HOME_IS_SHARED and also HOME_IGNORE_LIMITS http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/config/ini_homing.html#cha:homing-configuration
[21:11:03] <tjb1> So it is possible to wire them all into the same input
[21:11:16] <tjb1> And use them as homing and limit also
[21:11:25] <andypugh> Yes.
[21:11:56] <andypugh> Can be very handy on a parport machine as you can get by with only using one pin for all limits and homes.
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[21:12:07] <tjb1> G540 only gives me 4 inputs
[21:12:08] <tjb1> :)
[21:16:06] <tjb1> andypugh: NPN is sinking correct
[21:16:24] <tjb1> And when sensor is activated its basically connecting the ground
[21:16:35] <andypugh> Don't ask me, I barely understand transistors :-)
[21:17:39] <tjb1> Heh
[21:20:19] <skunkworks> seems though you need some hal trickery for shared home and limit switches (all shared) because if you home one axis - the other axis sees the limit trip...
[21:20:45] <skunkworks> iirc
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[21:22:33] <JT-Shop> yea you need some tecno-fu
[21:22:50] <tjb1> I can separate them but then I will have no inputs left
[21:22:57] <voidexp> sorry i have lost my connection
[21:23:09] <voidexp> anyone could help me?
[21:23:17] <voidexp> have you see the question?
[21:23:52] <voidexp> i have identified my problem but i don't know how i coyuld solve it
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[21:24:47] <voidexp> only under certain conditions one of the motors does not start (no movement no sound..)
[21:24:57] <andypugh> The only trickery for ignoring limits when homing is the HOME_IGNORE_LIMITS flag
[21:25:41] <andypugh> voidexp: Is it that your drive is shutting down when stationary, and not waking up in time?
[21:26:28] <andypugh> Or possibly the amp-enable and direction are switched? (I think that would be a less subtle problem)
[21:27:00] <andypugh> As a basic starting point for trouble-shooting, assume that LinuxCNC works :-)
[21:27:11] <voidexp> the motor works in each direction, only in some cases it drop off
[21:27:24] <JT-Shop> seems the G540 has more problems than it is worth
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[21:27:37] <JT-Shop> tjb1: got room for another parallel port card?
[21:27:57] <tjb1> Yes but it shouldnt be needed, 3 home/limits and 1 input for the arc ok
[21:29:04] <tjb1> I actually have one but I got it off ebay and I dont think it is going to work
[21:29:08] <tjb1> Plus I think I lost the driver cd
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[21:34:27] <tjb1> How repeatable should a cheap proximity be?
[21:34:47] <tjb1> Im thinking I need to put a toggled limit on the z for the floating torch
[21:49:44] <r00t4rd3d> limits are for girls
[21:50:07] <tjb1> My machine is too big to work by hand ;)
[21:50:47] <r00t4rd3d> are you compensating for something?
[21:51:18] <tjb1> Yes, your lack of...
[21:51:19] <r00t4rd3d> do you also own a redneck sized pickup?
[21:51:25] <tjb1> No I drive a car
[21:51:30] <r00t4rd3d> aww
[21:51:40] <tjb1> 2008 mazda 3 i
[21:53:35] <tjb1> r00t4rd3d: I am gonna try to get limit switches on tonight
[21:53:45] <r00t4rd3d> u got that machine working yet?
[21:53:53] <tjb1> Do I look like godzilla
[21:54:19] <r00t4rd3d> more like the swamp monster
[21:55:08] <tjb1> thanks :)
[21:55:21] <tjb1> Route those pieces for yours yet lazy?
[21:56:13] <r00t4rd3d> nah im doing other stuff
[21:56:25] <tjb1> Lazy!
[21:56:49] <r00t4rd3d> anything but
[21:57:18] <Jymmm> http://i54.tinypic.com/2zgyq05.gif
[22:01:23] <tjb1> get to work r00t
[22:03:27] <r00t4rd3d> http://i.imgur.com/1tPNj.jpg
[22:04:31] <r00t4rd3d> i just got done working
[22:05:29] <r00t4rd3d> 7-5
[22:06:32] <tjb1> well now you better work from 5 - 12
[22:06:50] <r00t4rd3d> more like 8-1
[22:07:23] <tjb1> gonna make one of them at least?
[22:07:24] <r00t4rd3d> i did clean my machine when i got home
[22:07:43] <r00t4rd3d> i dont have the aluminum on hand
[22:07:55] <r00t4rd3d> i got more wood stuff to cut though
[22:08:26] <tjb1> Make aluminum
[22:09:42] <r00t4rd3d> for the cost of it, easier to buy
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[22:11:21] <tjb1> I want to see aluminum pieces by friday :p
[22:11:38] <r00t4rd3d> well you better get on it then
[22:12:24] <r00t4rd3d> id probably cut it with a jig saw before my router
[22:12:43] <tjb1> Ah so lazy
[22:12:51] <tjb1> haha
[22:13:43] <r00t4rd3d> i dont want to break shit trying to cut metal
[22:15:46] <tjb1> never know until you try
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[22:17:32] <r00t4rd3d> i did a small pocket in some aluminum
[22:17:42] <r00t4rd3d> slowly
[22:21:17] <andypugh> If it breaks, it needs an upgrade.
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[22:22:23] <r00t4rd3d> Iam going to McDonalds and getting a McFat with extra Fat.
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[22:24:04] <andypugh> r00t4rd3d: Don't forget the Lard Sauce
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[22:28:49] <FinboySlick> I don't know if it's the different rules here, but McDonalds is a lot leaner in Quebec than in the US... At least the places I tried in the US.
[22:31:23] <andypugh> I think McDs is rather over-criticised.
[22:31:50] <FinboySlick> They indulged our Quebec culture too and gave us McPoutine :)
[22:32:08] <FinboySlick> Do they have McHaggis in Scotland?
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[22:33:59] <andypugh> No, but I think they should.
[22:34:33] <FinboySlick> In the east here, they also have McLobster.
[22:35:43] <jdh> McDonalds cheeseburger & shake is good at 2am while drunk. That's about the only time though.
[22:36:29] <FinboySlick> Every few months, I get a craving for a quarterpounder, eat it, then feel glad it won't be another few months before I try that again.
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[23:31:29] <Tom_itx> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FuwFlW3n_3E&feature=related
[23:37:25] <andypugh> As a counterpint to the tiny micromoeter: http://www.imperial.ac.uk/centenary/memories/cornforth.shtml
[23:37:40] <andypugh> (you might want to scroll to the last photo)
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[23:45:09] <Tom_itx> :)
[23:55:27] <andypugh> They still have it i assume. We certainly kept it safe in my tenure.
[23:56:06] <Tom_itx> you missed a good bike video yesterday
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[23:57:15] <Tom_itx> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=_vo4VAxtZSs#!
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[23:58:28] <andypugh> You tosser
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[23:58:50] <andypugh> I do _not_ want to see that sort of stuff unannounced
[23:59:41] <andypugh> What part of that was "good"?
[23:59:49] <Tom_itx> he lived
[23:59:53] <Tom_itx> read the posts
[23:59:55] <andypugh> <quite angry>