#linuxcnc | Logs for 2012-08-07

[00:00:15] <jthornton> I don't see any chamfer in the backplot
[00:00:31] <jthornton> is it not retracting out of the hole far enough before a rapid move
[00:00:33] <Connor> there isn't in the file.. it's because of the tool.
[00:01:37] <Connor> the first one (from left to right) is good, the 2nd, get's the shaffer because of the tool being angled.
[00:01:37] <jthornton> I don't understand
[00:02:18] <Connor> let me take a picture of the part.
[00:02:19] <Connor> brb
[00:03:43] <Jymmm> QUICK! Everyone run and hide while he's taking a photo!!!
[00:06:55] <Connor> http://www.ivdc.com/cnc/mill/top_hat_attempt.jpg
[00:07:32] <Connor> never mind the long skinny nubbin on the left part.. this was a test and thats what I had laying around.. almost out of 1.5" CRS.
[00:07:33] <jthornton> looks like the back side of tool 1
[00:07:45] <Connor> It is.
[00:07:56] <Connor> and you can barely see were I tried to correct it with tool 2.
[00:08:21] <jthornton> and the problem is?
[00:08:24] <Connor> my problem is, not enough clearance for tool 2 too correct it without running into the other shoulde.
[00:08:41] <PCW> any suggestions for things to try if the latency test crashes? (livecd 2.5.1 Jetway atom gm1-330-lf MB)
[00:08:42] <jthornton> ah wrong tools
[00:08:58] <Connor> okay, What should I be using ?
[00:09:11] <jthornton> what are you using?
[00:09:39] <Jymmm> PCW: disbale everything you dont use in the bios... serial/paraports, drive controller,s etc
[00:09:52] <jthornton> I see you try and cut 75% of the opening with tool 1 instead of 1/2 of it
[00:10:23] <Connor> http://www.littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=1679&category=1208242246
[00:10:40] <jthornton> does the latency test give any clues when it crashes?
[00:11:00] <PCW> whats weird is it ran once and then never again (running gets me a instant black screen/hard crash)
[00:11:07] <jthornton> wow
[00:11:45] <jthornton> you can only cut so deep with a triangle tool
[00:12:04] <jthornton> <jthornton> I see you try and cut 75% of the opening with tool 1 instead of 1/2 of it
[00:12:12] <jthornton> why is that?
[00:12:23] <Tom_itx> trying to wear out cutters
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[00:14:04] <WillenCMD> hey everyone
[00:14:40] <WillenCMD> how could it be possible that i have a rectified circuit running through a 5 amp fuse from ac mains, and it blows the breaker but not the fuse?
[00:15:04] <Jymmm> slo blow
[00:15:07] <Connor> Tom_itx: Huh?
[00:15:14] <WillenCMD> 15 amp breaker nothing else on it
[00:15:39] <Jymmm> startup surge? slow blow fuse?
[00:15:49] <Jymmm> defective fuse
[00:15:49] <WillenCMD> its a glass fuse
[00:15:54] <WillenCMD> i have tried several
[00:15:55] <jthornton> Connor, why do you try and cut more than 50% of the inside with tool 1?
[00:16:25] <Jymmm> sensative breaker?
[00:16:27] <WillenCMD> i know its the capacitor in the circuit causing a dead short im pretty sure
[00:16:36] <Connor> I didn't think much about it..
[00:17:16] <WillenCMD> but i can't figure out why the fuse won't blow, and blowing breaker's constantly isn't good for the breaker
[00:17:46] <WillenCMD> though i have only tried it twice, i even wired some light bulbs for resistance
[00:18:14] <Connor> This is my real first attempt at making a part with my mill setup as a CNC lathe...
[00:19:03] <WillenCMD> i also tried a dimmer switch for fans rated at 600w and turned it on its lowest setting
[00:19:06] <WillenCMD> still blew instantly
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[00:31:36] <Valen> breakers often trip faster than a fuse
[00:31:48] <Valen> kinda the point of them
[00:31:58] <Valen> also does it have a ground leakage detector thing in it?
[00:32:10] <Tom_itx> jthornton, you should apply the same suggestions to this tutorial as the first one
[00:32:14] <joe9> alex4nder, ReadError: interesting link http://taigownersclub.forumotion.net/login?redirect=%2Ft864-topic
[00:39:16] <Connor> jthornton: I found a cutter that's flat on both sides, .175" thick.
[00:40:30] <Connor> http://www.shars.com/files/products/404-2048/404-2048Main.jpg
[00:40:37] <Connor> from that set, 2nd from the bottom.
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[00:47:59] <r00t-Shed> rough pass
[00:48:00] <r00t-Shed> v
[00:48:03] <r00t-Shed> http://i.imgur.com/c57lH.png
[00:58:38] <Tom_itx> jthornton, Part2a Running our GUI without Axis = 404
[00:58:45] * Tom_itx waits impatiently
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[01:10:46] <jdh> http://www.mpja.com/email/08-07-12.asp?r=245198&s=3
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[01:18:41] <tom3p> awallin, http://code.google.com/p/python-fsm/ maybe of use, theres been this & other work on executable state machines using python
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[01:19:26] <joe9> /quit
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[01:22:31] <jdh> connor: lathe code looks funky.
[01:23:14] <Tom_itx> how so?
[01:23:52] <jdh> never looked at any before. x-z just looks odd.
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[01:44:28] <Tom_itx> jdh my cad cam uses Z and D for input values. took a bit to get my head around that
[01:44:30] <Connor> Eh?
[01:44:55] <Tom_itx> z and diameter
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[01:46:07] <jdh> vhttp://www.littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=1
[01:46:27] <jdh> <urk>
[01:47:46] <Connor> How do you specify a "flat" bit the tool table?
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[01:50:44] <Tom_itx> someone was hit and killed by lightening at the last nascar race at pocono
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[02:06:51] <Jymmm> Juan Pablo Montoya Garcia Gonzalez Jesus Hererra Jones the 4th
[02:07:06] <jdh> we just called him jimmy
[02:07:15] <Jymmm> lol
[02:10:34] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: which atom boards do you have?
[02:11:49] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: which atom boards do you have that you run windows on?
[02:12:00] <Tom_itx> D525
[02:12:12] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: XP or W7?
[02:12:18] <Tom_itx> xp
[02:12:31] <Tom_itx> i haven't downgraded yet
[02:12:43] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Any CAD proggys on it?
[02:13:04] <Tom_itx> it's got 10.04 on it right now
[02:13:09] <Tom_itx> but yes i use cad
[02:13:29] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: I'm just trying to determine if the atom board is "good enough" to run some CAD programs on it
[02:13:35] <Tom_itx> yes
[02:13:41] <Jymmm> how much ram?
[02:13:46] <Tom_itx> it runs faster than my main pc :)
[02:13:54] <Tom_itx> i have 4g in it
[02:14:07] <Jymmm> k
[02:14:10] <Tom_itx> but i'm not rendering huge files either
[02:14:29] <Jymmm> yeah, that's fine. just didn't know if it owuld be sluggish or not.
[02:14:34] <Tom_itx> i had a wing that took a while to load once
[02:14:55] <Jymmm> I'd rather have a board that I can run VM's on
[02:15:23] <Tom_itx> last i checked newegg was bo on the cheap d525
[02:15:33] <Jymmm> bo?
[02:15:42] <Tom_itx> out of stock. back ordered
[02:16:19] <Jymmm> I want this one for a new NAS http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813153212
[02:17:22] <Jymmm> I could even bond the dual nics!!!
[02:17:42] <Tom_itx> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813121442
[02:17:44] <Jymmm> 2Gbps!!!
[02:17:45] <Tom_itx> that's what i have
[02:18:06] <Jymmm> Yeah, 6yo mobo iirc
[02:20:11] <Tom_itx> no parport on yours
[02:21:07] <Valen> Jymmm: do keep in mind that if your bond goes through a switch your limited to 1gbps per xfer stream
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[02:21:40] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: It does http://www.jetwaycomputer.com/NF99.html
[02:22:01] <Valen> which cad package did you want to run?
[02:22:02] <Jymmm> Valen: I'll just create a VPN on the switch =)
[02:22:17] <Jymmm> Valen: Err VLAN
[02:22:17] <Valen> its an ethernet layer limitation
[02:22:38] <Valen> packets get out of order going through the switch
[02:23:04] <Valen> round robin bonding through a switch nets you ~1.1x 1 gbit connection and its highly variable
[02:23:44] <Jymmm> Valen: Well, it'll be fun to pay with at least =)
[02:23:49] <Jymmm> play
[02:24:11] <Valen> you can sure do the bonding in any of the other modes and get faster xfers to multiple computers and such
[02:24:41] <Jymmm> what other modes?
[02:24:55] <Jymmm> non VLAN?
[02:25:16] <Valen> bonding is below vlan
[02:25:53] <Jymmm> Valen: Is it? Well, if it becomes a pita, I could just get a fiber card instead 10GigE baby!!!
[02:26:04] <Valen> pfft
[02:26:21] <Valen> get some infiniband cards (they are much cheaper) and run ipoib
[02:26:27] <Jymmm> wut?! I got two fiber ports on the switch
[02:26:43] <Jymmm> Valen: Sure, you got the $50K to pay for them?
[02:27:01] <Valen> infiniband is commonly 20gbit, with 2 ports on a card and can be had for ~$50 for a used card
[02:27:33] <Valen> http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Mellanox-MHRH2A-XSR-InfiniBand-VPI-PCI-e-HCA-Adapter-Card-/230832436126?pt=AU_Server_Accessories_Parts&hash=item35beaf739e
[02:27:38] <Jymmm> who do I have to kill?
[02:27:40] <Valen> expensive as its in australia and pcie
[02:27:52] <Valen> pcix is much cheaper
[02:28:02] <Jymmm> for a reason
[02:28:02] <Valen> (because nobody uses it anymore but eh)
[02:28:21] <Valen> still a 0 cheaper than a 10gbe port
[02:28:28] <Valen> as in a digit shorter in the price
[02:29:05] <jdh> what would you talk to on the other side that would even make 2gbs useful?
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[02:29:31] <Jymmm> jdh: streaming video around the house
[02:30:08] <Valen> I use my bonded nics for DRBD replication
[02:31:24] <jdh> can you saturate them?
[02:31:41] <Valen> when i migrate a KVM instance yes
[02:31:47] <Valen> the memory sync runs over it too
[02:32:09] <Valen> I really need to turn jumbo frames on that interface
[02:32:34] <Valen> but as it stands i can twiddle some settings and run the replication through the switch over the same vlan
[02:33:16] <Valen> my write speed is limited by the hard drives, i hit about 120mbyte/sec
[02:33:21] <Valen> the hdd's native is 130 or so
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[03:21:27] <engkur> hi all
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[03:26:56] <taiden> ello chaps
[03:27:22] <alex4nder> YOH
[03:28:00] <taiden> who wants to play theorycraft with me?
[03:28:03] <bonehead420> hello
[03:28:06] <taiden> it's a fun game
[03:28:19] <taiden> i come up with a scenario and we get to try to figure out how to do it the best way
[03:28:28] <alex4nder> taiden: is it theorycraft with broodwar or SC2 rules?
[03:28:37] <alex4nder> I need to know.
[03:28:43] <taiden> broodwar 6 pool allowed
[03:29:01] <alex4nder> pshh
[03:29:15] <taiden> :)
[03:29:19] <taiden> so here's the scenario
[03:29:21] <taiden> CNC lathe
[03:29:31] <taiden> workpieces are highly figured hardwoods
[03:29:55] <taiden> workpiece size no larger than 2" length and 3" diameter
[03:30:33] <taiden> gang style tooling for a turning / parting tool, a facing tool, a boring bar, and a drill bit for the boring bar clearance
[03:30:54] <taiden> but here's where it gets more complicated.. automatic workpiece changing for lights out manufacturing
[03:31:21] <taiden> what do you think would be the cheapest way to do this effectively?
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[03:32:38] <bonehead420> so you want to be able to load materials automatically
[03:32:42] <taiden> yes
[03:32:53] <taiden> but without some crazy pneumatic chuck
[03:32:57] <taiden> because that would be too cost prohibitive
[03:33:33] <taiden> perhaps a taper threaded center?
[03:33:47] <taiden> and some way to load and unload using the gang platform
[03:34:28] <Connor> Dang IT!!! My freaking motor in my mill just bit the dust..
[03:34:39] <taiden> workpieces to be prepped with a hole and loaded into some kind of hopper
[03:34:41] <bonehead420> use a cartrige that could load a part when it goes to certain position. then...
[03:34:47] <Connor> jdh: You around ?
[03:34:57] <bonehead420> like a gun clip maybe
[03:35:06] <taiden> Yeah
[03:35:14] <bonehead420> upside down
[03:35:21] <taiden> how would you get it attached to the spindle?
[03:35:25] <taiden> the workpiece
[03:36:10] <bonehead420> reverse spindle speed and use a threaded attachment
[03:37:20] <bonehead420> ?
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[03:56:36] <taiden> yeah
[03:56:39] <taiden> we're on the same page there
[03:56:53] <taiden> i am thinking some kind of mini lathe headstock
[03:57:03] <taiden> like from a taig lathe
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[06:57:11] <DJ9DJ> moin
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[07:58:56] <AitalMAC> is there an hal component that can get a float number, and send me a digital output, 0 when the float is 0 and 1 when the float is anything other than 0
[07:59:18] <AitalMAC> positive or negative values
[07:59:39] <engkur> hi all
[08:08:08] <archivist> AitalMAC, have you seen http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/hal/components.html
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[08:15:00] <archivist> and remember floats are not precise so you test for a range near 0 , you could probably use the one called comp
[08:16:41] <archivist> man 9 comp
[08:19:41] <AitalMAC> i am looking at the components, but it's always difficult to find the one you need
[08:19:57] <archivist> comp does what you want
[08:21:35] <AitalMAC> I see
[08:22:06] <AitalMAC> I think spindle speed cmd it's precise
[08:22:17] <AitalMAC> or is it not?
[08:23:26] <AitalMAC> well i'll try with hyst 0 and see if i have to put it higher or not
[08:23:28] <AitalMAC> thank you
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[08:46:05] <AitalMAC> worked with hyst 0 i'm using this to have a ramped spindle on when is on speed and off only when to speed zero
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[10:30:50] <gallenat0r> what would you use for a 3000mm y-axis, stepper or servo?
[10:33:41] <alex_joni> depends on what you need to move
[10:34:02] <archivist> and funds and performance you want
[10:35:39] <awallin> if you have cutting-forces, use a servo. For a laser-cutter or a 3D printer without cutting-forces _maybe_ a stepper is adequate if you don't need high acceleration and/or rapid speed
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[10:55:28] <Valen> or use a bigass stepper awallin ;->
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[11:20:57] <gallenat0r> I'm building a wood mill and have gotten an elte 4.5kw spindle (22kg)
[11:21:47] <gallenat0r> So I was thinking about getting nema34/42 steppers, but I'm not sure :)
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[11:35:08] <awallin> gallenat0r: wow, with a quick-changer also? what is the max rpm?
[11:36:14] <awallin> you should probably get about 1kW servos to match that spindle..
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[12:56:04] <alex_joni> yay, network upgrade
[12:56:06] <alex_joni> http://www.speedtest.net/result/2105907966.png
[12:56:40] <archivist> grmbl not fair!
[12:57:03] <alex_joni> well, it's a tad slow
[12:57:08] <alex_joni> I have 120Mbit at home ;)
[12:57:24] <alex_joni> but not this upload :D
[12:58:20] <Jymmm> alex_joni: So, you can toss me a box on that new line =)
[13:00:39] <Jymmm> alex_joni: I just need a EU subnet to proxy =)
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[13:04:37] <archivist> mine is http://www.speedtest.net/result/2106234333.png
[13:04:44] <archivist> pathetic
[13:05:11] <Jymmm> how much per month archivist?
[13:05:37] <archivist> far too costly
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[13:09:13] <archivist> none of the cheap hosting would allow me the site size I currently have
[13:10:46] <Jymmm> define cheap and size?
[13:13:32] <archivist> one url has 42gb in it
[13:13:48] <archivist> does need some cleaning though
[13:14:16] <Jymmm> 42GB of what, ISOs?
[13:14:29] <archivist> no images and scans
[13:15:29] <Jymmm> that's a hell of a lot of images. Not even high-res 300DPI images I have take up THAT much room.
[13:16:34] <archivist> cleaning and de duplicating will reduce to about 20 gb ish
[13:17:28] <Jymmm> ok, sure. But Even my 300DPI topo maps of all of California take maybe 600MB
[13:20:20] <archivist> my scans are 400 dpi usually (for later ocr) one company archive scans currently 13253928 blocks
[13:20:53] <r00t4rd3d> yay, puking and shitting sick!
[13:21:51] <Jymmm> What sucks up storage for me is my VM's, currently at 140GB
[13:22:11] <jdh> and the pr0n archive.
[13:22:12] <archivist> I had the pukenshitz when I went to a model engineering show
[13:22:44] <Jymmm> jdh: Nah, pr0n (very high res images) and video is only 1.2GB
[13:22:54] <r00t4rd3d> lol
[13:24:04] <alex_joni> a hi-res video is easily 60GB-ish
[13:25:09] <Jymmm> alex_joni: BR ?
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[13:31:25] <skunkworks> archivist, the company I use has 500gb sotrage for $4 a month. (36 months)
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[13:40:40] <r00t4rd3d> i use gmail for storage
[13:40:58] <r00t4rd3d> Using 0.1 GB of your 10 GB
[13:44:57] <r00t4rd3d> in wonder how long i can keep coffee down
[13:45:02] <r00t4rd3d> in/I
[13:45:06] <alex_joni> Jymmm: yeah
[13:47:50] <r00t4rd3d> http://imgur.com/a/NS2lO
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[13:48:03] <r00t4rd3d> a lathe restore on reddit....
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[13:54:15] <r00t4rd3d> i like google today, they used a watermellon texture on the track for the black runner
[13:54:27] <r00t4rd3d> https://www.google.com/
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[14:30:11] <r00t4rd3d> ever notice how their page is almost all white?
[14:31:20] <r00t4rd3d> the only time you see black is when there is work to be done.
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[14:38:35] <ktchk> r00t4rd3d: are you the only one in the chit room?
[14:38:51] <ktchk> chat
[14:41:19] <r00t4rd3d> no
[14:41:46] <r00t4rd3d> 105 other people here too
[14:43:04] <ktchk> r00t4rd3d: but you are talking to youself
[14:43:39] <stillme> he is talking if you want to contribute to what he says you do
[14:44:07] <ktchk> r00t4rd3d: did you said that you brought a air cool 4.5kw spindle
[14:44:55] <r00t4rd3d> nah i just have a dewalt router
[14:45:10] <jdh> it is air cooled though.
[14:45:27] <r00t4rd3d> google this term = gabby douglas uneven bars
[14:45:42] <r00t4rd3d> olympic porn
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[14:46:48] <jdh> huh?
[14:47:19] <r00t4rd3d> google image search that term i meant
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[14:50:39] <ktchk> last evening someone told me that www.taobao.com is spam site, who?
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[15:03:48] <archivist> skunkworks, but my "storage" is 0 per month
[15:04:12] <skunkworks> yep :)\
[15:04:29] <archivist> just my connection suxs
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[15:04:55] <archivist> I need more money/ a job to get better
[15:05:44] <r00t4rd3d> move out of the basement
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[15:07:38] <r00t4rd3d> i been making decent side cash selling wood signs on craigslist.
[15:08:13] <tjb1> Thanks for the idea.
[15:08:20] <tjb1> Do you do custom messages?
[15:08:30] <r00t4rd3d> what ever
[15:08:50] <tjb1> Youll do whatever design the person wants?
[15:09:00] <r00t4rd3d> somewhat
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[15:09:24] <tjb1> Wait until you get someone who doesnt understand things :D
[15:09:46] <tjb1> "I want this letter to POP out of the sign"
[15:09:51] <r00t4rd3d> this one lady sent me a picture of a cupcake a child drew for her cupcake storem, i shut her down .
[15:10:08] <tjb1> Heh
[15:10:33] <tjb1> So you have gotten pretty good at raster2vector I assume
[15:11:05] <r00t4rd3d> pretty much
[15:11:38] <tjb1> Inkscape?
[15:11:50] <r00t4rd3d> no inkscape
[15:12:16] <tjb1> What do you raster in
[15:12:27] <tjb1> Well, convert in
[15:13:14] <r00t4rd3d> cut2d,cut3d,draftsight,sketchup +plugins,photoshop,vector magic, vcarve pro, photovcarve.
[15:14:34] <r00t4rd3d> vector magic converts the images into a dxf
[15:15:37] <tjb1> I will have to save that
[15:16:19] <tjb1> Wooo, $300...
[15:16:47] <tjb1> No way, EPS and SVG output!
[15:17:09] <tjb1> I have a vinyl cutter and its just a PITA to get something for it to cut
[15:21:19] <jdh> not off by an order of magnitude, or two?
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[16:09:38] <ssi> hi folks...
[16:09:42] <ssi> I have a fun new bug in my HNC
[16:09:53] <ssi> whenever I'm running a program and my air compressor kicks on, the Z axis faults :D
[16:10:33] <Tom_itx> bigger caps on your supply
[16:10:45] -!- Thetawaves has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep]
[16:10:51] <Tom_itx> emf filter on the line
[16:11:13] <Tom_itx> isolation transformer
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[16:11:35] <jthornton> run a line from your neighbors house for the compressor
[16:12:12] <Tom_itx> or if both happen to be 110v, switch buss's on one of them
[16:12:25] <skunkworks> jthornton, how is the gui coming?
[16:12:41] <Tom_itx> not quick enough :)
[16:12:52] <Tom_itx> i'm following along his tutorial
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[16:13:27] <jthornton> pretty good just sorting out the python connections to linuxcnc and mah has added lots of info on that to the manual
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[16:13:52] <Tom_itx> i see a typo too
[16:14:04] <Tom_itx> at the bottom of python on 2b should read 3a
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[16:14:56] <jthornton> got that one fixed but I've not had time to upload it
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[16:15:31] <Tom_itx> jthornton you may also wanna zip the python on those like you did the others
[16:15:59] <jthornton> yea
[16:16:18] <Tom_itx> i just tried one and get the same error
[16:18:08] <jthornton> I'll see if I can get to it when I get back from the industrial part
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[16:22:21] <jthornton> be back after while
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[16:38:45] <ssi> hrm... emf filter on the compressor power line you mean?
[16:39:05] <ssi> I'm assuming that it's noise on the resolver lines that causes the fault
[16:39:08] <ssi> and they're shielded
[16:40:25] <ssi> the power situation for the HNC is a bit weird... 220v feeds the main power distribution box, and that feeds the spindle VFD, as well as a transformer that steps down power for the servos, but the computer power comes from a separate 110v circuit (via extension cord currently haha) and it feeds the resolvers and all other circuits aside from the servo drives
[16:41:05] <ssi> also it only seems to fault the axis if there's a program running... linuxcnc doesn't get a following error if the compressor comes on while it's sitting still
[16:41:19] <archivist> be ever so careful with grounding
[16:43:55] <ssi> yeah I'm sure that may be an issue
[16:44:10] <ssi> I've been running it as it is for about 6 months now, but this is a new issue
[16:44:26] <ssi> I have the computer inside the old control rack, which also still has the original servo drives and power supply
[16:44:45] <ssi> the control gets 220v from the lathe's main power box, but it's 2 + ground 220v, there's no neutral leg with it
[16:45:00] <ssi> I briefly considered trying to take 110v from that against the ground leg, then decided against it ;)
[16:45:15] <ssi> I suppose I could just switch the computer power supply to 220v mode and run it that way
[16:46:11] <archivist> is there a brownout when the compressor starts
[16:46:19] <ssi> that's a good question
[16:46:28] <ssi> I haven't noticed any other indications of one
[16:46:51] <archivist> are others on the same feed pulling it lower than it used to be
[16:47:51] <ssi> everything's on separate circuits
[16:48:03] <ssi> I tend to run one breaker per machine like a good boy
[16:48:15] <archivist> has a cable screen connection come loose
[16:48:26] <ssi> that's always possible
[16:48:55] <ssi> my plan was to put a scope on the resolver and try to catch the transients when the compressor cycles
[16:49:07] <ssi> I have a digital scope that I think has a glitch mode
[16:49:13] <archivist> one breaker per machine means little when they are connected together the other side of the breaker
[16:49:26] <ssi> yeah I know
[16:49:29] <ssi> but nothing I can do about that
[16:49:51] <ssi> fwiw, the computer that runs the lathe runs on a power conditioning UPS
[16:50:01] <ssi> and that runs the resolvers
[16:50:08] <ssi> which makes me think it's probably EMF instead of line noise
[16:50:13] <ssi> cause there shouldn't be any line noise
[16:51:00] <archivist> I had noise from my vfd get into the stepper lines, had to reduce the impedance to help that
[16:51:54] <ssi> oh another little issue I have with this machine is I get deceleration overcurrent faults on the spindle VFD WAAAY More often than I'd like
[16:52:02] <ssi> and it's irritating because I have to shut the machine down and wait 30 seconds
[16:52:24] <ssi> like if I stop a program in the middle, even if it's not cutting
[16:52:28] <ssi> it spins the spindle down fast and faults
[16:52:31] <ssi> strange
[16:52:32] <archivist> add a breaking resistor or slow the ramp down
[16:52:45] <ssi> easier said than done :)
[16:52:58] <ssi> I've slowed the ramp down a lot, but it doesn't seem to help... not sure why
[16:52:59] <archivist> which?
[16:53:04] <ssi> braking modules are very expensive
[16:53:14] <ssi> this vfd doesn't take a straight resistor near as I can tell
[16:53:20] <ssi> needs the igbt externally or something
[16:53:51] <archivist> all you can do is slower ramp then
[16:53:56] <ssi> anyway that's irrelevant, I'm just whining about it :)
[16:54:02] <ssi> I think what I need is a bigger vfd
[16:54:23] <ssi> or I need to get the original electromechanical spindle brake working
[16:54:45] <archivist> I spent most of the day hunting bits to make a pc for the hobbing machine
[16:55:06] <ssi> I also want to get the original spindle speed control ballscrew under control and use it as a secondary spindle gear
[16:55:17] <ssi> I have high and low clutches, but I want a min and max speed change within those gears as well
[16:55:31] <ssi> so I can do very slow high torque for tapping
[16:55:44] <ssi> bottom end of my low gear is still a bit too fast for tapping and not enough torque
[16:56:12] <ssi> thinking about using an arduino to run that stepper and interface it as a single pin in EMC
[16:56:37] <ssi> oops linuxcnc I mean :D
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[16:58:59] <IchGuckLive> Hi all around the planet
[16:59:28] <IchGuckLive> ktchk: does the mashine run
[17:02:01] <pcw_home> ssi is it possible you have enough voltage drop during the compressor turn-on tha you get a low voltage fault somewhere (if its EMI often turning off is worse)
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[17:12:12] <automata> hello
[17:12:46] <automata> i seem to have run into a problem with running MDI commands with halui
[17:14:30] <automata> The MDI command is specified in the INI file and called by activating a halui pin
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[17:15:41] <automata> The problem is halui switches the mode to MDI then without completing the command immediately switches the mode back to manual. After that the command tries to run generating an error that EMC is not in MDI mode
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[17:18:50] <automata> I have identified this bug with the halui.cc file in the main loop: check_hal_changes is called which calls sends the command to the emc command buffer. Immediately after that, the function modify_hal_pins is called. this function switches the mode to previous mode if emsStatus->status is non-zero.
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[17:21:03] <automata> I think this is the source of my problem... In between the calls to check_hal_pins() which issues a command to the emcommandQueue, and modify_hal_pins which resets the mode back to manual, the emctaskplan thread needs to activate atleast once.
[17:21:50] <automata> That would make sure that the status queue would know that there is atleast one MDI command in the command queue.
[17:23:36] <automata> There are 2 simple solutions: 1. put an esleep(0.01) call between the check_hal_changes() and modify_hal_pins(). 2. reverse the call order of the two functions (call modify_hal_pins before check_hal_pins)
[17:23:54] <automata> I have tried both solutions and have not run into the problem since.
[17:24:32] <automata> But this being a timming glitch type of bug, what is the gurantee of it being sloved???
[17:24:47] <automata> can anyone with more experience in this field comment?
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[17:25:43] <Tom_itx> maybe ask in -devel
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[17:31:51] <automata> I guess I should do that...
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[17:55:17] <mcenter__> ssi, with hot dry weather, the ground rod for the main panel may not be as grounded as usual. This can play heck with VFDs.
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[18:02:18] <Jymmm> 10 ft ground rod not grounded??? Add salt.
[18:02:26] <Loetmichel> re @ home
[18:02:31] <Jymmm> salt water
[18:05:22] <Tom_itx> go pee on the ground rod
[18:06:14] <Tom_itx> Jymmm there are enough minerals in the ground you wouldn't need salt water
[18:06:17] <Jymmm> that would work too
[18:06:57] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: it's a 10ft frickin ground rod, shouldn't be an issue either way. But for added conduction, add salt.
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[18:13:38] <jdh> automata: no clue in this context, but in general, adding an arbitrary delay isn't a fix, it is a way to make an intermittent problem less easy to find/fix.
[18:16:00] <automata> jdh:I think so too... Not sure though how to find a fix though...
[18:18:25] <automata> maybe before resetting the old mode back to manual, I should check if the task was queued up (based on the task command number)...
[18:18:32] <Jymmm> I'd never use a timer if you dont' have to (aka last resrot)
[18:19:08] <Jymmm> counters, flag, sure. timers are just icky.
[18:19:40] * Jymmm 2ยข
[18:20:11] <mcenter__> When I first put my shop service in I could only get the 10ft rod to go about 2ft down. I just sawed the top off. Later, I dug a 6ft trench as deep as possible. Drove the rest in as far as possible and covered the remainder.
[18:21:03] <Jymmm> define "deep as possible"?
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[18:23:05] <mcenter__> To solid rock. (I call my place the Rock Farm for good reason)
[18:23:38] <Jymmm> um, how about in feet, inches, meters, mm,
[18:23:49] <Jymmm> d) all the above.
[18:23:58] <mcenter__> 2 ft mostly.
[18:24:04] <automata> Thanks Jymmm.. That is what I try to do too...
[18:24:34] <automata> keep away from timers for any type of code that will sync with another thread..
[18:24:42] <Jymmm> mcenter__: so you are no where even hear the water line.
[18:24:48] <Jymmm> near
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[18:28:13] <mcenter__> Not even close. But that is not important, it is the moisture in the soil. (Depends on what you define the water line, I define it as the point which a hole begins to fill with water)
[18:32:42] <ssi> pcw_home: re your low voltage comment... would it necessarily be a voltage drop on the line that powers the computer (and therefore the mesa hardware and the resolvers), or do you think a voltage drop on the servo power supply could also cause it?
[18:33:42] <pcw_home> low servo voltage may cause a drive fault
[18:34:03] <ssi> I'm not sure if I have my drives' fault line wired to my mach hardware though
[18:34:20] <ssi> the only thing I know for sure is linuxcnc reports a "joint 2 following error" when it happens
[18:35:53] <ssi> s/mach/mesa/
[18:35:55] <archivist> add/check capacitance of the servo psu maybe
[18:36:22] <ssi> I need to figure out how to datalog the power
[18:36:36] <ssi> I don't think my fluke datalogs, but I have another meter somewhere that does
[18:36:40] <pcw_home> Yeah its hard to know where thats from
[18:36:40] <ssi> and my digital scope might be able to do it
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[18:41:18] <djdelorie> anyone have some good papers/tutorials on how to do deadband on a position servo PID loop? I have I and D set to 0, it runs smoothly when it's moving fast enough, but "knocks" when it's supposed to be still
[18:41:36] <djdelorie> at least, that's what it sounds like, I haven't scope'd it yet
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[18:57:15] <Jymmm> Good papers? Yes. Tutorial? Life. Deadband, no; deadhead, yes. ID? fake. Knocks == cops. Still, my beating heart.
[18:57:38] <Jymmm> <rimshot_goes_here>
[18:58:47] <tjb1> What did I just read...
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[18:58:59] <Jymmm> tjb1: nonsense
[18:59:57] <Jymmm> Maybe a bunch of hype, but if you use/work with/exposed to TEFLON, PTFE, PFOA... http://www.pfoa.com/
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[19:05:30] <Tom_itx> mcenter__ the trick to driving a ground rod is to pour water in the hole as you go
[19:05:42] <Tom_itx> you can nearly drive it in by hand if you do
[19:07:45] <Tom_itx> i wouldn't trust a 2' ground rod for much of anything
[19:09:11] <mcenter__> I did that. It doesn't help with a tablerock. But, 10 ft of ground surface area at 2 ft deep was better than a vertical 2ft rod.
[19:11:27] <mcenter__> It has been sufficient for 15 years. My VFD's and CNC lathe have worked OK.
[19:12:14] <Spida> anybody got a comparison between screwed-together alu-rods (80-20 style) and welded steel frames for self-built mills?
[19:12:29] <mcenter__> With a 220V 3P open delta service.
[19:14:31] <mcenter__> I despise 80-20's awesomeness.
[19:15:36] <syyl> 80-20 is for tables
[19:15:41] <syyl> steel is for machines
[19:15:43] <syyl> ;)
[19:16:20] <djdelorie> all we need now is a steel version of 80-20 ...
[19:16:28] <L84Supper> Spida: are you wondering about flex and vibration dampening?
[19:16:30] <syyl> its called square tube and a welder
[19:16:43] <mcenter__> Cast Iron 80-20 ?
[19:16:59] <syyl> great idea :D
[19:17:09] <djdelorie> and a mill and surface grinder, if you want it flat and consistent for CNC tracks
[19:17:34] <syyl> and 80-20 comes curved and bent in all directions...
[19:17:46] <syyl> also not sufficient for linear guides
[19:17:51] <L84Supper> there's an extruder in England that can extrude steel t-slot , I forget the name of the mill
[19:18:06] <syyl> i would stay with the welder ;)
[19:18:23] <syyl> then ship it out to have it stress reliefed
[19:18:33] <syyl> and machine the mounting surfaces
[19:18:49] <syyl> or use adjusting resins..
[19:22:40] <Spida> syyl: is the stress-relief that important?
[19:22:47] <syyl> hmm
[19:22:48] <mcenter__> I agree with syyl. Stress relieving may be optional. I weld mounting pads to be machined.
[19:22:57] <syyl> good question
[19:22:57] * Spida has not clue about metalwork
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[19:23:06] <syyl> i would do it
[19:23:37] <syyl> i am no expert :D
[19:23:54] <syyl> just a machinist
[19:24:43] <mcenter__> If a weld joint (or HAZ) is to be machined, I would think stress relieve would be important.
[19:25:15] <syyl> you could weld the frame
[19:25:26] <tjb1> Where could I find the shear load on bolts?
[19:25:27] <syyl> and place the mounting pads with some adjustign resin to it
[19:25:37] <syyl> like diamant dhw / multimetal
[19:26:13] <Spida> my first idea was a cube, with the worksurface on the lower face of the cube, and the x-axis rails on the upper edges of the cube. that would keep both x and y out of the dirt and make the y-axis lighter. on the other hand, the whole frame gets more load, and access to the work area is limited
[19:26:26] <syyl> http://diamant-polymer.de/en/products/dwh/
[19:26:32] <syyl> that stuff is great
[19:26:38] <syyl> used it while refurbishing my lathe
[19:28:40] <Spida> L84Supper: yes. and weight.
[19:28:46] <Spida> L84Supper: and cost +g*
[19:29:20] <Spida> syyl: you are from germany?
[19:29:24] <syyl> jap
[19:29:41] <Spida> grobe ecke?
[19:29:51] <syyl> -> qry
[19:29:54] <Spida> k
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[19:40:11] <PCW> micges around?
[19:40:46] <micges> si
[19:40:56] <PCW> Found mesa6i25 board with 5i25 flash
[19:40:57] <PCW> ERROR in upci_open_region(): device -1 not found
[19:41:36] <micges> are you sure you're testing latest mesaflash?
[19:42:41] <PCW> MD5 (mesaflash) = 70b1fd4a6be77bf1b816912b3c0e0d37
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[20:32:30] <Connor> jdh: You there?
[20:41:50] <r00t4rd3d> earth to jdh, come in jdh.
[20:42:07] <r00t4rd3d> he is always in out space
[20:42:12] <jdh> feels like it today.
[20:42:37] <jdh> what's up?
[20:42:51] <Connor> Motor on my G0704 went poof.
[20:42:59] <r00t4rd3d> nice.
[20:43:02] <jdh> oops. What were you doing with it?
[20:43:04] <r00t4rd3d> to many volts?
[20:43:10] <jdh> motor or driver?
[20:43:15] <Connor> Motor.
[20:43:29] <jdh> consider it an opportunity.
[20:43:32] <Connor> I didn't think I was pushing it that hard...
[20:43:44] <r00t4rd3d> good to see i am not the only one who breaks motors
[20:43:50] <jdh> well, I would make it an opportunity for grizzly to replace it first
[20:43:52] <Connor> Well.. Grizzly going to replace - no charge
[20:44:07] <Connor> 4-6 weeks on the replacement.
[20:44:11] <r00t4rd3d> wow
[20:44:12] <jdh> were you doing 3k+?
[20:44:23] <Connor> No. Was only doing 2k
[20:44:38] <jdh> did you ever tweak your torque pot?
[20:45:02] <Connor> Was using in lathe mode, using cut-off bit
[20:45:16] <Connor> To be honest, I don't remember on this controller.
[20:45:32] <jdh> heh, is this the first one, second one, or lathe one?
[20:45:51] <Connor> 2nd 0704 motor controller.
[20:46:01] <Connor> 1st one still worked -- mostly.
[20:46:19] <jdh> I have a treadmill motor, it doesn't look very beefy though.
[20:46:20] <Connor> the lathe controller is completely shot.
[20:46:51] <jdh> is the lathe 90v?
[20:46:53] <Connor> I found one.. Have to try to win the bid, but, that doesn't do me any good.. no way to make the parts to mount it with.
[20:47:05] <Connor> yea.
[20:47:23] <Connor> I can finish this part up on my mini lathe using the mill controller as long as I didn't fry the controller to.
[20:47:29] <Connor> I don't think it did.. it looked to be okay.
[20:48:20] <jdh> $30-40 for a 90v treadmill controller
[20:48:22] <Connor> Had it working great in lathe mode though... did a nice job.
[20:48:49] <jdh> how did you square the head?
[20:49:01] <Connor> I'll finish parting it on the band saw and the mount up the part in the mini lathe now that it's small enough to fit.
[20:49:18] <Connor> nice ground rod, and 2 1-2-3 blocks.
[20:49:38] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[20:49:42] <Connor> then double checked with Dial Test indicator.
[20:49:46] <jdh> amazon refunded my $57 for the missing drill rod. Not sure what they are going to do when they get the empty box bakc
[20:49:57] <Connor> ROFL
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[20:50:21] <Connor> Was it amazon or a 3rd party via amazon ?
[20:50:21] <jdh> I rolled up the RMA sheet and shoved it in the hole. Never even opened the box
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[20:50:59] <jdh> probably rolling around in a truck or shipping facility somewhere. Probably doesn't look like missing merchandise.
[20:52:24] <Connor> I'll have to re-traim the mill again to finish my part... Need to cut inside threads.. not sure I even want to attempt on the mini lathe..
[20:52:31] <Connor> metric threads too.
[20:52:55] <jdh> I broke the half-nut engage thing on my mini-mill. Got a replacement, but never put it in.
[20:53:26] <Connor> Can you using a boring bar to thread with ?
[20:53:29] <Connor> that even possible ?
[20:53:47] <jdh> if it is a small 60degree point
[20:54:18] <jdh> do you start on the inside for that kind of thread?
[20:54:27] <jdh> seems like stopping in time would be hard
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[20:54:34] <jdh> (going outside in)
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[20:56:00] <archivist> internal threads are no problem with linuxcnc
[20:56:53] <Connor> None of bars have 60 degree point..
[20:57:09] <archivist> make your cutter as needed
[20:57:51] <archivist> I hand grind hss for jobs like that
[20:58:12] <Connor> well.. I have 4-6 weeks before I have to worry about it. :)
[20:58:27] <archivist> no escape groove either http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2012/2012_05_06_Leawood/IMG_1240.JPG
[20:58:33] <Tom_itx> archivist on a blind hole would you start at the bottom and run the spindle backwards?
[20:59:03] <Connor> archivist: Nice. Picture of the tool bit used ?
[20:59:32] <archivist> hmm have to find it and the camera....
[20:59:39] <Connor> Part calls for a M20-1.0
[20:59:48] <Connor> internal thread. .250" Deep.
[21:00:23] <Tom_itx> archivist do you use go no go thread gages or just test fit?
[21:01:37] <archivist> test fit as it was a one off
[21:02:08] <Tom_itx> on a blind hole would you start at the bottom and run the spindle backwards?
[21:02:42] <Tom_itx> typically one would have an undercut at the bottom
[21:02:44] <archivist> that nut was blind and I dived in :) no reversing
[21:02:57] <archivist> no undercut either
[21:03:23] <andypugh> Tom_itx: No, just trust LinuxCNC to stop :-)
[21:03:24] <Tom_itx> we did alot of stuff like that on the old cam feed bar machines
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[21:03:59] <Tom_itx> 5-6k per shift
[21:09:56] <archivist> Connor, quick and dirty picture http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2012/2012_08_07_screw_cutting_tool/IMG_1289.JPG
[21:25:57] <archivist> andypugh, why I have to put the encoder in the head helical lower right introduces phase error with height http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2012/2012_07_31_Barber_Colman/IMG_1287.JPG
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[21:27:09] <andypugh> You could probably sense the edge of the helical.
[21:28:06] <archivist> its running at twice the rate so two indexes per rev
[21:28:55] <andypugh> You could have the index remote from the encoder.
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[21:31:26] <archivist> the shaft that helical meshes with would be an easy place, I have thought of gearing from that shaft but it would be adding error as it is two gear sets removed from the spindle
[21:32:06] <andypugh> But a conventional encoder on the end is almsot certainly easier. slightly reduce the diameter of the end of the bush and push on a thin top-hat. Mount the encode fixed-portion to that, and make a suitable spindle onto the shaft.
[21:32:11] <archivist> shows basic arrangement http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2012/2012_07_31_Barber_Colman/IMG_1288.JPG
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[21:32:56] <andypugh> Actually, that's over-complicated. Mount the top hat on whatever the bush fits into.
[21:33:10] <archivist> but any adjustment to cutter height adds phase error
[21:33:47] <andypugh> Do you anticipate altering height during cuts?
[21:34:02] <archivist> between cuts and re run
[21:34:41] <andypugh> Surely you need to encode the cutter and the work. Any mechanicaly-induced offsets between the two get automatically removed by the software.
[21:35:18] <andypugh> It looks like a properly-made bit of kit.
[21:35:20] <archivist> exactly the encoder has to be in the head, not on an inbetween shaft
[21:36:05] <archivist> it was well designed except a few faults with over loaded taper pins
[21:36:58] <archivist> and a lump of putty to stop a designed in oil leak
[21:37:05] <andypugh> My suggestion was onf a way to mount the encoder on the head :-)
[21:37:29] <andypugh> (I don't know what word "onf" was meant to be)
[21:38:05] <archivist> the head has no space without machining/cutting into places one should not
[21:39:25] <archivist> I think I am going to add a section where the cover is there fore using its original mounting holes
[21:40:12] <archivist> some is nice enough to think of it as an antique so no mods or drilling allowed
[21:41:14] <andypugh> I am having a bit of that with my Harrison
[21:41:16] <Tom_itx> archivist is that pic the innards of your lathe?
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[21:42:58] <archivist> Tom_itx, no it is a Barber Colman S typ hobbing machine date unknown
[21:43:33] <Tom_itx> it didn't look quite right to be a lathe gearbox...
[21:45:10] <archivist> a test assemble the other week http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2012/2012_07_25_Barber_Colman/IMG_1272.JPG
[21:50:03] <r00t4rd3d> the gear just popped off my z axis lead screw after like 8 hours of cutting :/
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[21:52:22] <r00t4rd3d> i went inside for a couple minutes to get a drink and i come back out to a line right through the hole carving.
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[22:17:19] <r00t4rd3d> anyone who says jared loughner is sane is crazy.
[22:20:49] <r00t4rd3d> him pleading guilty was stupid
[22:21:37] <ReadError> 8 HOURS of carving?
[22:21:41] <ReadError> no.thank.you.sir.
[22:22:19] <r00t4rd3d> enough where i paused it and went to bed for the night
[22:22:39] <ReadError> how you going to turn a profit selling wooden guns if they take so long?
[22:22:57] <r00t4rd3d> lol i was not making it to sell it
[22:24:30] <r00t4rd3d> i need to make a dust shoe
[22:27:23] <skorket> hey guys, I don't want to spam this channel with my problems if you don't want. Could I ask my question here or is there another cnc forum where I can get help (I'm already in #diycnc)
[22:28:08] <r00t4rd3d> ask away, cnczone.com forums is another good spot to be at
[22:29:14] <skorket> I like the realtime aspect.
[22:29:24] <skorket> I just bought a zen toolworks 7x7 frame, nema17 400 steps/rev motors from sparkfun, an arduino running grbl and pololu a4988 stepper drivers. I just ran a test gcode file that is supposed to make a square with rounded edges
[22:29:34] <skorket> I notice that when it gets to what I think are the edges part, the motors makes this horrible racket
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[22:30:04] <skorket> any suggestions on how to debug would be appreciated
[22:31:02] <skorket> basically, it seems to work just fine when it's going at a reasonable speed, but when it slows down it sounds horrible
[22:31:14] <r00t4rd3d> what kind of bit
[22:31:35] <skorket> no bit attached, this is just a 'dry run' without any tool attached
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[22:32:17] <r00t4rd3d> have you ever heard a stepper run before this?
[22:32:38] <skorket> hmm, I guess not really. I've seen youtube videos
[22:32:55] <r00t4rd3d> is it grinding or just sound whiny ?
[22:33:03] <skorket> it sounds like it's grinding
[22:33:26] <r00t4rd3d> what do you have your microstep set at?
[22:33:46] <skorket> I haven't set the pololu driver to anything. I think it's default is no microstepping
[22:34:09] <r00t4rd3d> well set it to 1/2 microstepping how ever you have to
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[22:34:39] <skorket> http://www.pololu.com/catalog/product/1182
[22:34:43] <skorket> ok, let me do that
[22:34:46] <r00t4rd3d> does it have choices? like 1,1/2,1/8,1/16?
[22:35:22] <r00t4rd3d> have you seen the grbl shield?
[22:35:48] <skorket> It does have all of those options, I just need to set them
[22:35:52] <r00t4rd3d> Five different step resolutions: full-step, half-step, quarter-step, eighth-step, and sixteenth-step
[22:35:54] <skorket> I have seen the grbl shield...
[22:36:07] <r00t4rd3d> set to half step and try your test again
[22:36:30] <r00t4rd3d> i wonder what its set to by default
[22:36:49] <skorket> full step
[22:38:00] <r00t4rd3d> are you using 12v motors with that?
[22:38:08] <r00t4rd3d> these :
[22:38:08] <r00t4rd3d> https://www.sparkfun.com/products/9238
[22:38:42] <skorket> https://www.sparkfun.com/products/10846
[22:38:46] <r00t4rd3d> ahh probably this one:
[22:38:47] <r00t4rd3d> https://www.sparkfun.com/products/10846
[22:38:52] <r00t4rd3d> 3v hopefully
[22:39:05] <skorket> they're running at 24v
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[22:41:04] <skorket> I can just connect MS1 to logic high, right? http://www.pololu.com/catalog/product/1182 (under 'step (and microstep) size')
[22:41:15] <ssi> have you tuned the pololus?
[22:41:25] <r00t4rd3d> never
[22:41:42] <ssi> the current trimpot I mean
[22:41:52] <skorket> ssi, yes, I have
[22:42:03] <ssi> usually when the stepper "sounds" bad, it's a tuning issue
[22:42:09] <ssi> most folks running those are tuning "by ear"
[22:42:14] <skorket> I've tuned them to provide just enough juice so that it's not overheating
[22:42:40] <ssi> although the right way to do it is to know the current rating of the motor and measure vref on the driver board and you can do the math to calculate what current is being provided for a given vref
[22:43:45] <skorket> would providing too much or too little current give this grinding symptom?
[22:43:50] <ssi> yep!
[22:44:03] <skorket> why?
[22:44:14] <ssi> too little current and it'll stall, possibly intermittently
[22:44:20] <ssi> too much current and the 4988 goes into a protection mode
[22:44:23] <ssi> and it sounds like it's stuttering
[22:44:26] <r00t4rd3d> seems like alot of current but not having the microstep right will make motors sound bad too
[22:44:40] <skorket> hmmm...
[22:44:44] <ssi> in between, there'll be a sweet spot where it sounds smooth and quiet
[22:44:52] <ssi> on either side of that point, it gets buzzy and noisy
[22:45:05] <skorket> I worry that providing less current will not be enough. Providing any more and it starts overheating
[22:45:35] <r00t4rd3d> they do not need more
[22:45:45] <r00t4rd3d> i have sf steppers too the biggest ones they have
[22:45:49] <skorket> ok, I'll try turning it down
[22:45:51] <r00t4rd3d> i run them at 18v
[22:46:06] <r00t4rd3d> 1/2 step
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[22:46:41] <ssi> not sure what you consider to be overheating
[22:46:42] <r00t4rd3d> mine are 3v 2a/phase
[22:46:45] <ssi> all my 17 steppers run pretty hot
[22:47:01] <r00t4rd3d> my 23
[22:47:04] <r00t4rd3d> run hot
[22:47:14] <ssi> have one running right now that's too hot to touch, IR temp gun says it's 68C
[22:47:20] <ssi> but it's happy and running well
[22:48:26] <r00t4rd3d> my stuff gets real hot when idling, moving they cool to the touch
[22:48:32] <andypugh> The safe working temperature for motors is surprisingly high
[22:49:25] <r00t4rd3d> i can cook hotdogs in my computer
[22:49:52] <r00t4rd3d> and most of that shit is plastic
[22:50:37] <skorket> ssi, The pololu driver has overheating protection. If it gets too hot it starts shutting down until it cools down, powering up again until it heats up then cycling like that. The symptom is that the stepper motors begin to 'pulse'
[22:50:44] <ssi> yep
[22:50:51] <skorket> I'm running my steppers at 24v...is that bad?
[22:50:54] <ssi> the chopping is pretty obvious
[22:51:11] <ssi> 24v shouldn't be a problem I wouldn't think... depends on motor inductance
[22:51:25] <r00t4rd3d> 2v/1.7a
[22:51:33] <r00t4rd3d> is what his motors are rated
[22:51:43] <ssi> 3.06v is what I'm seeing on the datasheet he linked
[22:51:50] <skorket> yeah, sparkfun says 3v
[22:52:00] <r00t4rd3d> oh ye4ah
[22:52:03] <r00t4rd3d> my bad
[22:52:03] <skorket> but that's just a minimum?
[22:52:13] <ssi> no, not exactly
[22:52:26] <ssi> To compute the maximum voltage that you should use
[22:52:26] <ssi> depending on the inductance of the motor use this formula.
[22:52:26] <ssi> Maximum Voltage = 1000 * SQRT(inductance)
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[22:52:59] <ssi> so max voltage 53v
[22:53:04] <ssi> 48v would be a sweet spot probably
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[22:53:29] <ssi> the 381oz keling nema 23s that I use in several places have about the same inductance, and I run them at 48v
[22:53:36] <skorket> inductance = 2.8 ... 1000 * sqrt(2.8) = 1673.320
[22:53:42] <ssi> 0.0028
[22:53:45] <ssi> inductance in henries
[22:53:48] <skorket> ah, right
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[22:54:37] <skorket> so what is the voltage rating for a motor?
[22:55:16] <ssi> ohms law I'd imagine ;)
[22:55:54] <ssi> 1.8 ohm winding, rated for 1.7A
[22:56:02] <ssi> E = IR, 3.06v = 1.7A * 1.8R
[22:56:16] <ssi> it's the DC voltage rating
[22:56:23] <ssi> but stepper drivers don't apply anything like DC to a motor
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[22:57:33] <L84Supper> unless your step frequency is 1/10000 Hz :)
[22:58:33] <ssi> the coils are inductors, and inductors look like an open circuit to high frequencies ;)
[22:58:54] <ssi> oh 1/10000hz
[22:59:00] <ssi> as in 0.0001hz
[22:59:06] <L84Supper> kidding yeah
[22:59:43] <ssi> yeah I'm pretty sure that the drivers limit current at low step rates (or stationary) for that very reason
[23:00:01] <skorket> ok, well, I think it's gotten a lot better
[23:00:11] <ssi> turn up the current?
[23:00:24] <skorket> it seems to get worse at higher current
[23:00:33] <skorket> and much more the driver starts to overheat
[23:00:34] <L84Supper> ssi: are you happy with the Kelling steppers?
[23:00:48] <ssi> L84Supper: sure, haven't been unhappy with them
[23:00:57] <ssi> those 381oz motors are well matched to the G540
[23:01:28] <ssi> I have four of them on my plasma table driven by a G540, and two more on my G0602 lathe driven by keling analog drivers
[23:01:30] <L84Supper> ssi: I've met the owner, he tries to find better made components for import
[23:01:32] <ssi> 5060 or something like that?
[23:01:48] <ssi> interesting
[23:01:57] <L84Supper> I just haven't used much of his motors yet
[23:02:19] <ssi> I haven't tried his nema 17s yet
[23:02:31] <ssi> I've been buying 17s from a guy on ebay
[23:02:46] <ssi> I like them because they've got JST connectors on them rather than just flying leads
[23:02:53] <ssi> and they come with MXL pulleys on them
[23:03:01] <ssi> for $10 each
[23:03:08] <ssi> I've bought something stupid like 35 of them in the last month
[23:05:21] <djdelorie> building a CNC octopus or something? ;-)
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[23:07:30] <ssi> heheh
[23:07:33] <ssi> been building 3d printers
[23:07:39] <ssi> for myself as well as kits for friends
[23:08:10] <L84Supper> ssi: FFF (reprap types) or?
[23:08:15] <ssi> yea repraps
[23:09:26] <ssi> it's fun being one of the few reprap dorks with real machines
[23:09:34] <ssi> I can do things like cut threaded rod without having a conniption fit
[23:09:34] <ssi> :D
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[23:10:17] <L84Supper> yes, most builders are limited to hand tools or maybe cordless drill
[23:10:23] <ssi> yep
[23:10:33] <ssi> I've got a 7x12 bandsaw that most reprappers would kill for
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[23:10:58] <ssi> not to mention a 9x42 mill, two cnc lathes, a cnc mill, a 4x4' cnc plasma table, a manual 12x36 lathe, a 6x18 surface grinder, and tig equipment
[23:11:02] <ssi> :D
[23:11:16] <ssi> I'm a hobbyist, but I overdo the shit out of everything
[23:11:25] <ssi> which is why i built four repraps instead of one
[23:12:36] <andypugh> With all that, why do you need a reprap?
[23:12:50] <ssi> they're interesting
[23:13:03] <ssi> nice to be able to cad up a part, print it and verify fit, THEN go do machine work
[23:13:47] <ssi> plus of all my cnc machines, only one is complete and relatively reliable :P
[23:13:50] <ssi> the hnc
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[23:29:09] <r00t4rd3d> skorket, there is a warning about heat on pololus page
[23:29:24] <ssi> I'd definitely suggest heatsinks on the polulus
[23:29:48] <r00t4rd3d> "This product can get hot enough to burn you long before the chip overheats. Take care when handling this product and other components connected to it."
[23:33:50] <L84Supper> are those the boards that use the A4983's?
[23:34:19] <ssi> I think he said 4988
[23:34:27] <ssi> the 4988 is the one with the better current limiting
[23:34:34] <ssi> I've heard it said that you can't blow up a 4988
[23:35:07] <ssi> CHALLENGE ACCEPTED :D
[23:35:16] <L84Supper> those transfer heat mainly through the aluminum carrier out to the pcb
[23:36:13] <L84Supper> they have over temp shutdown but who wants to wait for the board to always cool down
[23:37:31] <L84Supper> http://www.pololu.com/file/download/a4988_DMOS_microstepping_driver_with_translator.pdf?file_id=0J450
[23:37:43] <ssi> ok here we go trying to print parts to get my g0704 conversion done at long last :D
[23:40:43] <L84Supper> they an improved package as well
[23:42:00] <jthornton> part tree http://gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/gui-tutorial/index.html
[23:44:04] <jthornton> Tom_itx, ~~^^~~
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[23:52:07] <Jymmm> Heh, don't use "mechanic's gloves" to handle hot things =)
[23:53:32] <ssi> the rubber melts :P
[23:53:41] <ssi> I use them as welding gloves sometimes, but they're not exactly ideal
[23:53:48] <Jymmm> Unless you like molten plastic fusing into your flesh
[23:54:24] <Jymmm> you can't even toss them off your ands either, like leather gloves
[23:54:32] <Jymmm> hands
[23:54:53] <Jymmm> I just did a "heat test" =)
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