#linuxcnc | Logs for 2012-07-28

[00:00:05] <r00t4rd3d> one side of the chip should have a steeper angle
[00:00:22] <r00t4rd3d> steeper angle, left side, pin 1
[00:01:00] <WillenCMD> maybe thats not it, because im telling you both angles are the same
[00:01:05] -!- skorket [skorket!~skorket@cpe-24-58-232-122.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #linuxcnc
[00:01:15] <WillenCMD> should i go put in on the damn comparator and check the angles
[00:01:16] <r00t4rd3d> you didnt take any bath salts today did you?
[00:01:45] <WillenCMD> just ampetomenes
[00:01:53] <WillenCMD> amphetomens
[00:01:59] <WillenCMD> or however its spelled
[00:02:28] <r00t4rd3d> the dea raided all the head shops around me that sold bath salts and glass cleaner
[00:02:35] <alex4nder> hah
[00:02:41] <r00t4rd3d> couple days ago
[00:02:44] <alex4nder> did they take the 'horny goat weed' as well?
[00:02:56] <r00t4rd3d> synthetics too i think
[00:03:16] <alex4nder> I love fighting losing wars.
[00:03:20] <skorket> I'm considering buying a zen toolworks cnc kit ( here http://www.zentoolworks.com/product_info.php?products_id=74&osCsid=f6un8kg8ml1lqlk781noikptl7 ), with my own nema17 .9 deg stepper motors, an arduino loaded with grbl and 3 a4988 pololu stepper drivers. I primarily want to do PCB routing but it would nice to do some other small stuff too. Does anyone have any experience with the zen toolworks machines? Is it a good choice for
[00:03:20] <skorket> a beginner like me?
[00:03:21] <alex4nder> s/wars/battles/
[00:03:39] <alex4nder> skorket: I've heard you'll have spindle runout problems.
[00:03:42] <alex4nder> but that might be old news.
[00:04:11] <r00t4rd3d> skorket, you have seen cnczone.com?
[00:04:22] <skorket> alex4nder, what is spindle runout?
[00:04:29] <r00t4rd3d> i think there is a zen sub section in the forums
[00:04:33] <andypugh> Why use an Arduino rather than LinuxCNC?
[00:04:43] <alex4nder> skorket: the amount out of round that the bit will spin in the spindle.
[00:04:43] <r00t4rd3d> you can use it with it
[00:05:01] <andypugh> What does the Arduino do?
[00:05:09] <alex4nder> skorket: think of the spindle as a spirograph
[00:05:19] <r00t4rd3d> acts as a controller
[00:05:27] <r00t4rd3d> with a grbl shield
[00:06:12] <andypugh> OK, so where does LinuxCNC fit in
[00:06:18] <r00t4rd3d> more expensive route then a tb6560
[00:06:36] <WillenCMD> http://www.datasheetcatalog.org/datasheet/vishay/83717.pdf
[00:06:43] <WillenCMD> lol helps if you have the right datasheet
[00:06:46] <r00t4rd3d> linuxcnc sends arduino the cordinates i guess, never tried it though just read about it
[00:06:57] <WillenCMD> see the notch, clever clever
[00:07:03] <skorket> oh, whoops, I just saw linux + cnc and assumed this was the appropriate forum. Sorry guys, I don't mean to crash the party
[00:07:13] <andypugh> That's fine.
[00:07:13] <r00t4rd3d> nah man your fine
[00:07:23] <skorket> oh, ok, thanks
[00:07:31] <andypugh> You might find LinuxCNC a more usable solution to the controller puzzle though.
[00:07:36] <r00t4rd3d> cnc in general here pretty much
[00:07:37] <WillenCMD> can we pursuade you to linuxcnc
[00:07:51] <WillenCMD> we offer a gift basket
[00:07:59] <skorket> I'm looking at cnczone, but I don't see anything specifically for zen toolworks. Should I be looking in the forums? The review section seems to be down
[00:08:05] <r00t4rd3d> yeah
[00:08:28] <r00t4rd3d> they have sub sections for every damn thing i think
[00:08:44] <WillenCMD> not machining pornography
[00:08:54] <WillenCMD> won't find that section
[00:08:58] <r00t4rd3d> "sexy girls"
[00:09:03] <r00t4rd3d> dxf files
[00:09:11] <WillenCMD> although, i think a calendar with milling machine's and sexy girls would be a great linuxcnc fund raisor
[00:09:21] <WillenCMD> and lathes
[00:09:29] <andypugh> Shapely Shapers?
[00:09:29] <skorket> alex4nder, meaning the zen cnc is not so accurate?
[00:09:51] <alex4nder> skorket: you have to be careful with words with machinists.
[00:10:06] <r00t4rd3d> a zen would be fine for a beginner
[00:10:06] <alex4nder> skorket: you just won't get the output you expect with a tight tolerance requirement
[00:10:13] <skorket> Yeah, I'm pretty new to this whole thing
[00:10:16] <andypugh> skorket: He didn't get to finish the desciption, but runout refers to how far off the axis of rotation the centre of the toolholder is.
[00:10:37] <skorket> ah, I see
[00:10:46] <alex4nder> r00t4rd3d: it's not that he's a beginner, it's just not got low enough runout for any type of SMT PCB
[00:10:55] <alex4nder> with the spindle they offer
[00:10:56] <r00t4rd3d> you are better off building a cnc machine though
[00:11:10] <alex4nder> if you don't need to make a board for SMDs, it'll work
[00:11:11] <WillenCMD> don't you kind of need a machine to build one?
[00:11:21] <andypugh> For $350 You probably can't go far wrong, to be honest.
[00:11:29] <WillenCMD> thas what i was thinking
[00:11:35] <WillenCMD> looks like great practice
[00:11:37] <alex4nder> just set your expectations appropriately
[00:11:50] <r00t4rd3d> the machine is the easy part, the software is the bitch
[00:11:53] <alex4nder> you're not going to be doing inconel turbine blades with it
[00:12:21] <skorket> It would be nice to do SMD but maybe that's too ambitious. I'd be happy with something that at least gets close.
[00:12:26] <WillenCMD> root: thats what linuxcnc and this IRC is for :)
[00:12:52] <alex4nder> skorket: the problem with CNC is everything you don't know about.
[00:13:02] <skorket> I'm running into the problem of not having much experience with the mechanical side of things. I can see myself easily spending much more than $350 (or $450 after everything) and getting a machine that isn't nearly as accurate
[00:13:28] <alex4nder> skorket: I've spent $3k on my machine, and it isn't done yet
[00:13:29] <WillenCMD> for that price, you won't find anthing accurate
[00:13:36] <alex4nder> I'm still working on things.
[00:13:38] <skorket> I figure I'd start with a kit and go from there. The zen toolworks one seems like it was a good beginner cnc
[00:13:47] <WillenCMD> just an accurate spindle can run 1k to 2k used
[00:13:53] <r00t4rd3d> you could probably use the machine to improve itself though
[00:14:07] <WillenCMD> what about sherline?
[00:14:12] <r00t4rd3d> lol
[00:14:16] <r00t4rd3d> $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
[00:14:18] <andypugh> Yeah, I think it looks great for a toe-dipping excercise. And you might then decide that what you really wanted was a lathe, or a router, or a reprap.
[00:14:18] <alex4nder> WillenCMD: you might as well go Taig at that point
[00:14:36] <alex4nder> but a used Taig is a good machine
[00:14:42] <WillenCMD> ill second that
[00:14:46] <WillenCMD> for what they are worth
[00:15:20] <WillenCMD> i can't believe they can sell that for $350
[00:15:21] <skorket> I was thinking of just purchasing one of their spindles: http://www.zentoolworks.com/product_info.php?products_id=135
[00:15:22] <andypugh> Then you might as well have a Boxford. But they are a bit limited compared to a full size VMC, but thet can't make boat hulls so......
[00:15:36] <WillenCMD> lol
[00:15:40] <WillenCMD> where do you draw the line?
[00:15:45] <alex4nder> yah
[00:15:48] <alex4nder> it's a slippery slope
[00:16:04] <andypugh> The machine looks fine. That spindle looks very poor.
[00:16:05] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.shapeoko.com/
[00:16:17] <WillenCMD> i see it as stepping stones, buy a small decent machine, use it to make a medium machine and so on
[00:16:31] <r00t4rd3d> 199 for just the mechanics
[00:16:34] <skorket> any suggestions on a sub $100 (good) spindle?
[00:16:52] <WillenCMD> what size tooling are you going to use?
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[00:17:00] <andypugh> As far as I can see that "spindle" has no tool spindle bearings, and most motors that style have plain bushes for bearings.
[00:17:09] <r00t4rd3d> http://zentoolworks.com/product_info.php?cPath=16&products_id=122
[00:17:28] <r00t4rd3d> i doubt thats "good" but more like "works"
[00:17:32] <WillenCMD> that spindle looks like junk,
[00:17:45] <WillenCMD> ill give you a sherline spindle
[00:17:51] <WillenCMD> youll need the motor mount
[00:17:53] <r00t4rd3d> ok give me one
[00:17:54] <WillenCMD> and pay shipping
[00:17:58] <WillenCMD> really?
[00:18:02] <WillenCMD> i have one laying around
[00:18:06] <r00t4rd3d> where you live?
[00:18:11] <WillenCMD> Missouri
[00:18:25] <r00t4rd3d> medium flat rate box
[00:18:40] <WillenCMD> you got it, ill send the the drill chuck and collets
[00:18:50] <r00t4rd3d> you got paypal?
[00:18:59] <WillenCMD> whats paypal ;)
[00:19:08] <WillenCMD> yes i do
[00:19:20] <WillenCMD> there is a minor catch
[00:19:26] <alex4nder> there always is
[00:19:32] <andypugh> skorket: How much is a Dremel round your way? They can be an OK spindle, and also be used as a conventional hand tool.
[00:19:34] <WillenCMD> i drill 4 5/16 x 18 holes in the back
[00:19:38] <WillenCMD> drilled*
[00:19:49] <WillenCMD> but it still works gerat
[00:19:50] <WillenCMD> great
[00:19:58] <r00t4rd3d> got a pic of it?
[00:20:04] <skorket> I have a dremel...I thought it better to go through the zen site, but maybe not. It's also a question of attaching it to the z-axis...
[00:20:11] <WillenCMD> its at work, i have a solidworks rendering lol
[00:20:31] <r00t4rd3d> how big is it?
[00:20:54] <r00t4rd3d> what does it require for power
[00:21:06] <WillenCMD> its about 4"H x 3"w, i have a nema 23 motor mount kit that came with it
[00:21:28] <WillenCMD> its extra from a small drilling machine i designed for a local shop
[00:21:31] <andypugh> skorket: This spindle relieves the motor bearings of taking tool loads, and has proper spindle bearings. And is cheaper: http://www.cnconabudget.com
[00:21:38] <WillenCMD> so i didn't pay for it
[00:21:57] <r00t4rd3d> i could do small flat rate box then :)
[00:22:09] <WillenCMD> i even have endmill holders up o 3/8
[00:22:29] <WillenCMD> 3/16, 1/4, 3/8 threaded endmill holders
[00:22:39] <WillenCMD> you can see it on sherline's website
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[00:24:58] <skorket> andypugh, do you have a pointer on where to get adapters to fit it to the z-axis?
[00:25:15] <andypugh> It seems to come with a bracket.
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[00:26:50] <andypugh> I think you would drill through the flat plate on the Z axis and bolt through from the back.
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[00:32:52] <skorket> OK, well, thanks for the advise guys.
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[00:41:31] <WillenCMD> how do i know what the led current rating is for the opto?
[00:41:34] <WillenCMD> its not on the datasheet
[00:41:46] <WillenCMD> http://www.datasheetcatalog.org/datasheet/vishay/83717.pdf
[00:41:49] <WillenCMD> is it standard?
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[00:48:22] <jdh> not the 60mA?
[00:48:53] <WillenCMD> i was told to use a resistor with them
[00:49:00] <WillenCMD> from the microcontroller
[00:49:41] <jdh> oh, all the parts are in there. Which one are you using?
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[00:51:35] <WillenCMD> 4n38
[00:51:44] <WillenCMD> vishay
[00:52:19] <jdh> 390 for 10mA assuming you are driving it with a 5v uC
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[00:54:19] <WillenCMD> yes i am
[00:55:05] <andypugh> Max rating is 60mA, bit that seems very high. I have always assumed 10mA.
[00:55:52] <jdh> the 4n25/26/etc. say 50mA
[00:55:54] <andypugh> The CTR is rated at 10mA
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[01:42:51] <Tom_L> some of these could be handy for some of you: http://www2.electronicproducts.com/Engineering_Calculators_and_Tools.aspx
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[01:51:51] <dew_addict> Anyone here uses FreeCAD software?
[01:57:28] <tjb1> No, but draftsight works great :)
[01:57:41] <WillenCMD> i wouldn't listen to a thing tjbl says
[01:57:54] <tjb1> >:(
[01:57:54] <WillenCMD> notorious for blowing smoke out of his ass
[01:58:02] <WillenCMD> thats what i have heard
[01:58:07] <WillenCMD> :)
[01:58:24] <tjb1> Get that solidworks drawing done yet? :)
[01:58:28] <WillenCMD> i was just looking into free cad/cam software yesterday
[01:58:32] <Jymmm> i wouldn't listen to a thing WillenCMD say, notorious for blowing smoke out of his ass
[01:58:46] <tjb1> Jymmm sucks smoke up his :)
[01:58:49] <dew_addict> heh
[01:59:01] <WillenCMD> atleaste im notorious, thats something to be proud of
[01:59:13] <tjb1> Hey WillenCMD, finish the drawing!
[01:59:25] <dew_addict> as far as I know, draftsight doesn't do 3d solid right?
[01:59:27] <WillenCMD> yes i did you wanted an 8 axis robotic arm right?
[01:59:40] <tjb1> 15 axis
[02:00:02] <dew_addict> 256 axis is better. :)
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[02:00:27] <tjb1> ∞ axis is best
[02:00:47] <WillenCMD> how many axis are humans?
[02:00:51] <tjb1> enuff.
[02:01:06] <dew_addict> 2, walks like a penguin
[02:01:17] <tjb1> Serious Willen, you get it done? :(
[02:01:36] <WillenCMD> no but i did start on it
[02:01:44] <WillenCMD> and my wife works all weeknd
[02:01:47] <WillenCMD> weekend
[02:01:52] <tjb1> You said that last weekend lol
[02:01:52] <WillenCMD> so ride my ass when im on here
[02:02:03] <WillenCMD> i lied last weekend
[02:02:07] <WillenCMD> just kidding
[02:02:08] <Jymmm> GET A ROOM you two!
[02:02:26] <WillenCMD> i thought this was a room
[02:02:42] <Tom_itx> not the type you're looking for
[02:02:44] <Jymmm> This aint #ridemyass, m'kay
[02:02:47] <alex4nder> WillenCMD: this is a channel
[02:02:47] <WillenCMD> that does sound pretty bad
[02:03:00] <tjb1> Look at everyone ride his ass :D
[02:03:13] <alex4nder> WillenCMD: yah, better words are needed.
[02:03:57] <WillenCMD> oh well, whats done is done... i often say before i think
[02:04:02] <tjb1> Willen, you said you could do that in 3 hours
[02:04:08] <WillenCMD> i can
[02:04:21] <WillenCMD> i work two jobs man...
[02:04:33] <tjb1> excuses
[02:04:36] <WillenCMD> my leg hurts
[02:04:39] <WillenCMD> i have a cough
[02:04:44] <tjb1> Hey Jymmm, there are actually people in that room.
[02:04:56] <Jymmm> tjb1TMI
[02:05:02] <dew_addict> tjbl made him look
[02:05:19] <tjb1> Hey dew, its 1 not l
[02:05:20] <tjb1> :)
[02:05:37] <tjb1> But sadly no, Jymmm did not join to see
[02:06:46] <Jymmm> and never will
[02:06:50] <dew_addict> tjbone
[02:06:59] <dew_addict> got it
[02:07:32] <tjb1> Hey Jymmm, its about time for me to have legitimate questions relevant to this channel
[02:08:04] <tjb1> Wont that be swell?
[02:08:29] <r00t4rd3d> stfu
[02:08:40] <Tom_itx> i think all the adults went to sleep here
[02:09:12] <tjb1> r00t4rd3d: ?
[02:09:16] <r00t4rd3d> ?
[02:09:28] <Jymmm> #
[02:09:32] <r00t4rd3d> 9
[02:09:58] <tjb1> Jymmm, I will save all my Linuxcnc question for you...ok?
[02:09:58] <r00t4rd3d> i have a cramp in my foot that will not go away
[02:10:41] -!- mode/#linuxcnc [+o Jymmm] by ChanServ
[02:11:06] * Jymmm sets mode: +dumbass tjb1
[02:11:11] <tjb1> :)
[02:11:12] -!- mode/#linuxcnc [-o Jymmm] by ChanServ
[02:11:25] <WillenCMD> what age do you become and adult
[02:11:26] <WillenCMD> ?
[02:11:30] <WillenCMD> an*
[02:11:34] <Jymmm> 999
[02:11:35] <Tom_itx> apparently some never do
[02:11:45] * Jymmm refuses to grow up
[02:11:59] <WillenCMD> i second that, where is the fun in that
[02:12:13] <tjb1> Tom, I got the link from andy…interesting but looks like it would be difficult to use on long distance
[02:12:23] <r00t4rd3d> fuck the olympics
[02:12:37] <tjb1> Did you watch the opening ceremony? what a waste of money...
[02:12:40] <r00t4rd3d> no
[02:12:44] <WillenCMD> r00t4rd3d: Eat a bananna
[02:13:05] <r00t4rd3d> i just had a sandwich
[02:13:12] <tjb1> potassium
[02:13:15] <ReadError> did you get your power back tjb1 ?
[02:13:24] <tjb1> Yes, about 12 hours ago
[02:13:34] <tjb1> Have you finished your quad copter?
[02:19:36] <tjb1> ReadError: ?
[02:20:26] <ReadError> yea
[02:20:37] <ReadError> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/25091878/Photo%20Jul%2024%2C%208%2055%2012%20PM.jpg
[02:20:41] <ReadError> flown it a few times today
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[02:24:07] <tjb1> Looks great
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[02:27:50] <tjb1> ReadError: any pictures of it complete?
[02:28:02] <ReadError> thats pretty much complete ;)
[02:28:06] <ReadError> minus props
[02:28:25] <tjb1> I wanted to see the props :)
[02:28:54] <tjb1> It would be cool if you could sync the motors and have the props weave each other
[02:30:04] <tjb1> Build that one next ;)
[02:30:52] <ReadError> well
[02:30:58] <ReadError> my next one, is going to have 16 motors ;)
[02:31:06] <ReadError> im a bit crazy
[02:31:34] <tjb1> Shooting for the beer lifting competition?
[02:37:07] <ReadError> haha
[02:37:08] <ReadError> nah
[02:37:15] <ReadError> just trying to do something i havnt seen done ;)
[02:37:18] <tjb1> Did you see any of them?
[02:37:22] <ReadError> ya
[02:37:27] <ReadError> impressive stuff
[02:38:00] <tjb1> Do they automatically compensate for uneven weight?
[02:38:11] <ReadError> yea pretty much
[02:38:21] <ReadError> based on a PID loop
[02:38:23] <ReadError> so you can adjust it
[02:43:23] <jdh> Connor: wired up the last stepper cover. Looks cool
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[03:39:30] <jdh> anyone know the differnece between o1 drill rod and w1 drill rod?
[03:39:57] <cradek> you're supposed to harden O in oil and W in water
[03:41:00] <jdh> does one cut easier? Any difference if you aren't going to harden it anyway?
[03:41:16] <cradek> I don't know that, sorry
[03:41:27] <jdh> is oil vs. water a chemical thing or just how fast it quenches or what?
[03:42:00] <cradek> I've already shared everything I know about it :-)
[03:42:10] <jdh> heh... I shall google better.
[03:42:57] <tjb1> jdh: http://www.windsorsteel.com/grades/drill_rod.htm
[03:45:19] <jdh> lots of words, but they don't really tell me much.
[03:45:42] <tjb1> I tried :(
[03:46:19] <jdh> I appreciate it... don't have the knowledge base at the moment I guess.
[03:52:02] <jdh> ah... found a useful fact.
[03:52:24] <jdh> O1 is $102, W1 is $57
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[04:39:04] <tjb1> How exactly would you cut corrugated material on a plasma table and keep motion going if you were using the arc ok to start motion
[04:45:35] <tjb1> I know you can force it but was wondering if there was something I didnt know
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[04:50:02] <Connor> jdh: Cool beans.Which ones was it you wired up ?
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[05:23:07] <zoni> hi everyone i need to retrofit a machine fornthat i need help
[05:23:07] <zoni> i have hurco with 2500ppr encode and analogue drive for that please suggest a hardware
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[05:32:44] <zoni1983> hi everyone i need to retrofit a hurco machine with 2500ppr encoder and analogue drives
[05:33:05] <zoni1983> please suggest a hardware
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[07:09:42] <DJ9DJ> moin
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[10:25:08] <Stephan> Hello
[10:26:01] <Stephan> Maybe someone can help me with a mpg and linuxcnc ?
[10:26:37] <r00t4rd3d> mpg?
[10:26:51] <r00t4rd3d> miles per gallon...
[10:26:56] <Stephan> an pedant
[10:27:07] <Stephan> a handweel and some buttons
[10:27:41] <Stephan> i have connected it to linxcnc with a pokeys56 board
[10:28:18] <Stephan> the buttons work but the rotary encoder gives some strange behavior
[10:30:40] <Stephan> maybe i try a day without olympia :-)
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[10:45:32] <r00t4rd3d> http://i.imgur.com/ipKak.png
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[11:27:14] <r00t4rd3d> all this olympic shit is starting to piss me off
[11:27:57] <r00t4rd3d> cant watch tv or surf the net without it being shoved down my fucking throat
[11:28:19] <andypugh> I am enjoying watching the minority sports.
[11:28:37] <andypugh> (every single event is televised in HD, for free, gere)
[11:28:55] <andypugh> Watched air-rifle and dressage today
[11:30:01] <r00t4rd3d> the special olympics would be much more entertaining .
[11:31:03] <andypugh> A don't really get the idea of the special olympics, they seem to lack the special "100m for fat blokes who are too lazy to train" for me, for example.
[11:31:52] <r00t4rd3d> obviously you never seen a retard try the high jump/
[11:34:48] <r00t4rd3d> wow even weather.com
[11:34:59] <r00t4rd3d> cant even get the weather without this shit
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[11:51:45] <r00t4rd3d> maybe al-Qaeda will show up and take the gold
[11:53:08] <andypugh> Don't even think it. :-(
[11:56:07] <JT-Shop> is there any way to install LibreCad on 10.04?
[11:56:28] <r00t4rd3d> wine the windows version maybe?
[11:59:35] <r00t4rd3d> im gonna try and pocket out a book
[12:00:07] <andypugh> r00t4rd3d: Probably avoid coolant
[12:00:29] <r00t4rd3d> what coolant
[12:05:21] <r00t4rd3d> hell i dont even use a shop vac
[12:08:13] <archivist> olympics reminds me of http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sS9UnvPYj5U
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[12:25:17] <JT-Shop> maybe http://librecad.org/cms/home/from-source/linux.html
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[12:33:20] <r00t4rd3d> that will proabably take awhile
[12:33:31] <r00t4rd3d> hours i imagine
[12:34:00] <r00t4rd3d> its not in the repo?
[12:35:46] <r00t4rd3d> https://code.launchpad.net/~librecad-dev/+archive/librecad-daily/+build/3066587/+files/librecad-data_2.0.0%7Ealpha1%2Byeslib201201041135.693-0ubuntu0%7Edaily7%7Emaverick1_all.deb
[12:36:05] <r00t4rd3d> wait
[12:36:17] <r00t4rd3d> https://code.launchpad.net/~librecad-dev/+archive/librecad-daily/+build/3066587/+files/librecad_2.0.0%7Ealpha1%2Byeslib201201041135.693-0ubuntu0%7Edaily7%7Emaverick1_i386.deb
[12:37:39] <r00t4rd3d> or
[12:37:40] <r00t4rd3d> For Ubuntu 10.04 use:
[12:37:40] <r00t4rd3d> sudo add-apt-repository ppa:showard314/librecad
[12:37:40] <r00t4rd3d> sudo apt-get update
[12:37:40] <r00t4rd3d> sudo apt-get install librecad
[12:39:38] <r00t4rd3d> googling librecad + ubuntu 10.04 will get you places
[12:40:05] <r00t4rd3d> three dimensional places
[12:41:39] <r00t4rd3d> sketchup pro is better then librecad and works fine on ubuntu :)
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[12:45:27] <r00t4rd3d> i like how sketchup pro is $495 and its like 64mb install file
[12:45:55] <r00t4rd3d> 64.1 MB to be exact
[12:47:12] <r00t4rd3d> $7.72 per mb
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[13:07:29] <andypugh> I remember when memory was £3 a kilobyte/
[13:09:57] <r00t4rd3d> i remember dreaming of 512k of system memory
[13:10:34] <andypugh> My first machine had the optional 16k expansion, base config was 1k.
[13:11:44] <r00t4rd3d> my first modem connection was threw a string and a cup
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[13:24:00] <archivist> iirc the 1meg EMM expansion for my PC was a grand so I could design bigger pcb's at the time
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[13:29:00] <andypugh> And that is when a grand was a lot of money
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[14:44:43] <JT-Shop> seems like you can just install it from the source
[14:49:13] <r00t4rd3d> im sure but i bet it takes for ever
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[14:50:37] <r00t4rd3d> why bother though when there is a working deb package?
[14:50:39] <JT-Shop> "for ever" does seem like such a long time to me
[14:51:19] <JT-Shop> where?
[14:51:25] <Tom_itx> it goes by quicker than you think
[14:51:27] <jdh> at your age, it might not be that long.
[14:51:42] <r00t4rd3d> For Ubuntu 10.04 use:
[14:51:43] <r00t4rd3d> sudo add-apt-repository ppa:showard314/librecad
[14:51:43] <r00t4rd3d> sudo apt-get update
[14:51:43] <r00t4rd3d> sudo apt-get install librecad
[14:52:24] <JT-Shop> well crap that looks easy
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[14:54:15] <r00t4rd3d> alot easier then starting with a git clone
[14:54:39] <JT-Shop> why = "new not know how"
[14:56:45] <r00t4rd3d> do you compile alot of stuff from source code?
[14:57:24] <r00t4rd3d> its only fun once
[14:57:40] <r00t4rd3d> well the first time you succeed.
[14:57:42] <JT-Shop> just the linuxcnc stuff
[14:57:59] <JT-Shop> and like magic librecad is on my plasma cutter
[14:58:12] <JT-Shop> and the dell is still building LOL
[14:58:23] <r00t4rd3d> :)
[14:58:49] <r00t4rd3d> what version did that install?
[14:59:03] <r00t4rd3d> help, about
[15:00:12] <JT-Shop> 1.0.0.beta5
[15:00:27] <r00t4rd3d> windows is 1.0.2 so thats not bad
[15:01:00] <JT-Shop> I wonder if it will update?
[15:01:09] <r00t4rd3d> he the maintainer updates it
[15:01:19] <r00t4rd3d> the maintainer of the repo that you added*
[15:01:27] <JT-Shop> ah ok
[15:03:00] <r00t4rd3d> most of the time 1.0.* updates are bug fixes
[15:04:09] <r00t4rd3d> beta5 is probably not much different the .2
[15:04:17] <r00t4rd3d> then*
[15:05:44] <JT-Shop> R. van Twisk did mention that g-code generation from LibreCad was needed
[15:07:54] <r00t4rd3d> no version has that
[15:08:21] <r00t4rd3d> i dont think
[15:08:37] <r00t4rd3d> best i can save/export is dxf
[15:11:27] <r00t4rd3d> http://i.imgur.com/XrNDl.jpg
[15:12:12] <JT-Shop> I assume he meant that feature needed to be added
[15:12:27] <JT-Shop> and make is still making on the dell LOL
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[16:40:03] <Jymmm> morning
[16:40:09] <r00t4rd3d> wood!
[16:40:48] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: http://soundcloud.com/bcla/telepopmusik-dont-look-back-bcla-remix
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[17:04:10] <IchGuckLive> Hi all
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[18:21:11] <Jymmm> I need to punch some holes in aluminum flashing, but the throat depth isn't long enough to use something like this http://www.grizzly.com/products/Portable-Hand-Punch/G8780 . If I use my drill press and chuck a transfer punch, then get a sheet of steel, mount it to the base, and drill a hole in it, would that work just the same?
[18:23:06] <andypugh> You mean like: https://picasaweb.google.com/108164504656404380542/CNCUnsorted#5678683819608466866
[18:23:19] <Jymmm> Do I need any special type of (transfer) punch? And what size hole would I drill in the steel? If I need to punch a 1/4" hole, do I use a 1/4" punch and a 0.260" hole in the steel for the "die"?
[18:24:04] <Jymmm> andypugh: yeah, kinda like that. though I dont see any die there
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[18:24:23] <r00t4rd3d> 50cal..... air rifle
[18:24:23] <andypugh> There is on, I am using the other half of the Q-max cutter
[18:24:24] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=0c5_1343494488
[18:25:54] <Jymmm> andypugh: Ah, I dont need THAT big a hole, just 1/4" or so
[18:26:49] <Jymmm> andypugh: I could use a standard hand paper punch if it had a really deep throat
[18:27:26] <Jymmm> Ok, a heavy duty hand paper punch I should say =)
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[18:30:33] <andypugh> I would go with a proper fit. Drill a 1/4 hole, then reverse the drill in the chuck.
[18:31:24] <Jymmm> Would I need to grind the back side of the bit to get rid of the tapered edge?
[18:31:59] <Jymmm> great idea using the back side of a drill bit btw
[18:32:02] <andypugh> I think it would need grinding to be sharp-edged, but I would probably go for flat.
[18:32:35] <Jymmm> ok straight across or slightly angled ?
[18:33:00] <andypugh> Experiment?
[18:33:11] <Jymmm> heh, can do!
[18:33:18] <DaViruz> perhaps slightly concave in one plane?
[18:33:30] <andypugh> Q-max cutters are a sort-of V, but that is to fold-up the antihole so that it comes free of the die.
[18:33:35] <Jymmm> oh like the greenlee
[18:33:50] <andypugh> I think greenlee is the US version of Q-max
[18:33:56] <Jymmm> k
[18:34:32] <Jymmm> If I hit the recycler, would any sheet of steel work for the die?
[18:35:13] <andypugh> Depends hoe many holes you need to make.
[18:35:40] <Jymmm> Maybe 15 per piece
[18:35:46] <Jymmm> and 2 to 4 pieces
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[18:35:54] <Jymmm> (at least right now)
[18:35:58] <andypugh> The die only needs to be fractionally bigger than the punch.
[18:36:25] <Jymmm> andypugh: But if I use the drill bit, then that shouldn't be an issue, right?
[18:36:45] <Jymmm> andypugh: But if I use the drill bit to drill the die, then that shouldn't be an issue, right?
[18:37:21] <andypugh> What I am saying is that any old lump of metal will work, it can be quite a small bit.
[18:37:39] <Jymmm> Ok, cool.
[18:37:52] <andypugh> If I was doing it I think I would drill and harden a bit of tool steel though, for 60 holrs.
[18:37:56] <andypugh> (holes)
[18:38:37] <Jymmm> how would you harden it? All I really have is a propane hand torch
[18:39:29] <andypugh> With a propane hand torch (that's all I have too)
[18:40:00] <Jymmm> To what, glowing red? air cool? water quench?
[18:40:02] <andypugh> I have a few bits of compressed vermiculite to make a little hearth with, though.
[18:40:24] <andypugh> Well, with O1 you use oil. And from cherry-red
[18:41:03] <Jymmm> what kind of oil? motor oil? mineral oil?
[18:42:19] <andypugh> I have been using motorbike fork oil. But I have also use Whale Oil when I was a student metallurgist.
[18:42:28] <andypugh> Have you considered: http://www.northerntool.com/images/product/images/335325_lg.jpg
[18:43:19] <Jymmm> I have step bits, but the flashing is so thin I'll have to debur both side, then hammer out the holes to remove the bevel left behind.
[18:44:35] <DaViruz> for thin aluminium i'd wager any lump of steel will last hundreds of holes
[18:46:48] <Jymmm> Yeah, my biggest issue is my drill press. The quill has a lot of slop in it when lowered.
[18:47:24] <Jymmm> Hopefully it'll be consistant slop =)
[18:48:12] <DaViruz> make sure you get the quill travel as short as possible then :)
[18:48:28] <Jymmm> And red hot steel + oil == fire?
[18:48:37] <DaViruz> my cheap little drill press has the same issue, 5mm play at the drill bit end is not unusyal
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[18:49:15] <Jymmm> DaViruz: Yeah, just annoys me as I usually drill very tiny holes, 1/4" or less
[18:50:30] <archivist> 1/4" is huge
[18:50:46] <DaViruz> with a punch mark it usually is manageable
[18:50:46] <pcw_home> If its really thin and soft would an arch punch work?
[18:50:55] <DaViruz> i never do precision work on it anyway, i have nicer machines for that
[18:51:35] <Jymmm> pcw_home: I think it would level a bevel
[18:51:46] <Jymmm> leave
[18:52:30] <Jymmm> I like the back end of a drill bit idea
[18:52:53] <pcw_home> Depends on the backing
[18:52:57] <Jymmm> Then I dont have to match tolerances between the punch and die
[18:53:15] <Jymmm> pcw_home: true.
[18:54:01] <Jymmm> The hole itself doenst have to be precise, just clean and flat.
[19:01:13] <Jymmm> Now I just need to find 1.5 to 2mm (SS ?) rods that can withstand 1200F without bending =)
[19:02:15] <Jymmm> or really cheap titanium bicycle spokes =)
[19:08:34] <JT-Shop> http://www.mcmaster.com/#hole-forming-punches/=ilt6v6
[19:09:53] <Jymmm> thanks for the link JT-Shop
[19:10:45] <Jymmm> I think I'm going to try the drill bit, just seems it follows the KISS method here.
[19:11:51] <Jymmm> If it works out, I might be able to use my router to mass produce, if I can get enough torque of of the Z =)
[19:12:13] <Jymmm> err, out of
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[20:05:52] <jdh> anyone in .us have a spare 6" of 1.5" W1 drill rod?
[20:33:15] <andypugh> jdh: Surely you can just buy it?
[20:34:11] <andypugh> (more readily than getting it from anyone here, I am meaniing)
[20:37:11] <andypugh> (http://www.cromwell.co.uk/publication_page_pdfs/1187/752.pdf Probably far cheaper in the US, though I think that is what you call O1)
[20:37:44] <andypugh> Jymmm: And scrolling back: Yes, you get a small fire if you don't submerge the metal in the oil.
[20:37:49] <jdh> sure but most places sell 36". I just wanted to try cutting some first.
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[20:38:42] <andypugh> Well, I can confirm that the stuff I linked to cuts readily with a hacksaw as-supplied and turns very nicely to an excellent finish.
[20:40:37] <jdh> I ordered 3ft, amazon had free shipping (18 lbs?)
[20:41:37] <mrsun> hmm, a good homemade "flatbed" router, what speeds is "normal" to mill at in wood ?
[20:41:51] <mrsun> trying to calculate cost for cabin doors etc :P
[20:44:00] <mrsun> something like a mechmate
[20:46:00] <Jymmm> andypugh: Well, I have a coffee can around here, just need to find cheap oil to fill it with =)
[20:46:34] <skunkworks__> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHCdsHsZcho
[20:46:53] <skunkworks__> wonder what they are using for controll
[20:47:30] <andypugh> I bought a small childs metal bucket from the supermarket. (you know the sort of thing, it's 11pm on a saturday and you are foraging the only shop open for engineering supplies)
[20:47:54] <skunkworks__> I think it is funny that the star looks to be step milled instead of rotating the head..
[20:47:55] <skunkworks__> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHCdsHsZcho&feature=autoplay&list=UL9U95wt3pHxo&playnext=1
[20:48:37] <skunkworks__> I mean this http://youtu.be/9U95wt3pHxo
[20:51:17] <andypugh> skunkworks__: I would bet money that's LinuxCNC
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[20:52:19] <DJ9DJ> gn8
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[20:53:13] <andypugh> There is scope for a lot of optimisation in that G-code
[20:54:21] <pcw_home> Yeah seems like it should work on one feature at a time unless the guy likes watching it move
[20:55:17] <pcw_home> (it used to set mesmerized by the plotter when we plotted PC artwork in the 80s )
[20:55:28] <pcw_home> s/it/I/
[20:55:51] <pcw_home> s/set/sit/ aww forget it
[20:56:13] <Jymmm> forgotten =)
[20:59:05] <andypugh> pcw_home: After an eeprom read access setup (0xEC / 0x01) then a clear (0xEC / 0x00) do I need to stop or reset or something? I read the data no problem, but then the cards seem to hang until I power-latch. (and shutdown doesn't work, I need to physically unplug the PC).
[21:01:23] <Jymmm> skunkworks__: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_UmhUjZhNo
[21:01:26] <pcw_home> No, shouldn't
[21:02:05] <pcw_home> which remote?
[21:03:23] <Jymmm> No linear rails, but a hell of a lot of welded steel =)
[21:04:21] <Jymmm> and it STILL is resonating with all that metal
[21:06:22] <Jymmm> skunkworks__: http://parallelrobots.blogspot.com/
[21:07:23] <pcw_home> Our RPD/WPD utilities use this for EEPROM access when initializing cards here without trouble with SSerial/SSLBP and _recent_ remote firmware maybe a SSLBP/remote SW version issue
[21:08:38] <andypugh> It's a relatively new 8i20.
[21:08:51] <andypugh> (on a 7i76 on a 6i25)
[21:11:53] <andypugh> If I put an early return in this code, everything seems fine. But if I let it run-through then I get a full set of errors and the 7i76 stops playing until power-latch. http://codepad.org/jdzUgDXg
[21:13:19] <andypugh> I have probably been staring at the code for too long to see it any more now.
[21:15:11] <skunkworks__> Jymmm: saw that one
[21:15:21] <skunkworks__> that one looks well made.
[21:15:27] <andypugh> That's a nice one. (Andrew's?)
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[21:16:01] <andypugh> There again, the star-of-david one seems to work nicely.
[21:16:08] <Jymmm> Who si PKM in the UK?
[21:16:11] <Jymmm> is
[21:16:25] <Jymmm> err not UK
[21:16:35] <Jymmm> OMK sounds SO familure
[21:16:39] <Jymmm> PMK
[21:16:46] <Jymmm> skunkworks__: you're contagious =)
[21:18:46] <seb_kuzminsky> this guy wins the youtube tutorial video emmy of the year: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGnVAjkPGuA
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[21:20:54] <andypugh> I don't know why he bothered to post it, but I guess he was trying to be helpful
[21:21:20] <Jymmm> I like it, funny as hell
[21:21:55] <andypugh> Jymmm: So, the question is "Who is PKM in the OMK" ?
[21:22:11] <Jymmm> No, just PKM
[21:22:24] <Jymmm> uses mesa hw too.
[21:26:22] <pcw_home> I wonder if this bit you:
[21:26:24] <pcw_home> SSLBPWriteWord(theaxis,add,data);
[21:26:25] <pcw_home> SSLBPWriteLBP(theaxis,LBPNONVOL_flag,0);
[21:26:27] <pcw_home> { test for old }
[21:26:29] <pcw_home> old := SSLBPReadLBP(theaxis,LBPNONVOL_flag);
[21:26:30] <pcw_home> if old <> 0 then
[21:26:32] <pcw_home> begin
[21:26:33] <pcw_home> writeln('Old buggy bit file in use');
[21:26:35] <pcw_home> delay(100);
[21:26:36] <pcw_home> SSLBPWriteLBP(theaxis,LBPNONVOL_flag,0);
[21:26:38] <pcw_home> old := SSLBPReadLBP(theaxis,LBPNONVOL_flag);
[21:26:39] <pcw_home> if old <> 0 then
[21:26:41] <pcw_home> begin
[21:26:42] <pcw_home> writeln('Broken Old buggy bit file in use cycle 8I20 power');
[21:26:44] <pcw_home> halt(2);
[21:26:45] <pcw_home> end;
[21:26:50] <andypugh> Whoa! I have that file open...
[21:27:36] <andypugh> I am reading back firmare version 0x88 (136) from the 8i20
[21:28:35] <pcw_home> its not specifically 8I20 but the bitfile (older bitfiles dont wait for the EEPROM write to complete)
[21:28:58] <andypugh> [ 973.933913] hm2/hm2_5i25.0: Smart Serial Firmware Version 33
[21:28:58] <pcw_home> so you lose the next command
[21:29:20] <pcw_home> Hm that should be OK
[21:30:06] <pcw_home> but you can try that test
[21:30:21] <andypugh> Aye, it looks like I should put it in
[21:30:42] <pcw_home> Does power cycling the 8I20 fix things or is it SSLBP that hangs?
[21:32:02] <andypugh> Actually, I shouldn't need that test yet, as I am not writing to eeprom.
[21:32:38] <pcw_home> (8I20 EEPROM is fairly magic since it has to EEPROM and needs to suspend operation when writng to"EEPROM")
[21:32:46] <pcw_home> has no
[21:32:59] <andypugh> pcw_home: I have not done exhaustive tests, but it seems I have to totally power-off the whole PC, as if the PCIe interface has a keep-alive.
[21:34:02] <andypugh> pcw_home: This is all meant to be reads.. I need to write a flag to access eeprom, but all the access is read-only
[21:34:27] <pcw_home> did you try power cycling the 8I20.
[21:34:29] <pcw_home> If SSLBP hangs then a hard SSLBP reset should always succeed
[21:35:57] <pcw_home> You should never need a power cycle (this will reload the bitfile and reset all hardware but a SSLBP reset should do the same for SSLBP)
[21:36:02] <andypugh> Yes, I tried unplugging the 8i20 CAT5, no luck. Shutting down the PC is no help either. I actually thought I had bricked all the cards, until I tried actually depowering the motherboard by puling out the plug.
[21:36:36] <pcw_home> Is the 8I20 powered by the 5V?
[21:36:44] <pcw_home> (cat5 5V)
[21:37:05] <andypugh> pcw_home: No, just the CAT5. And all the LEDs go off when the PC shuts down.
[21:37:35] <andypugh> s/ no / yes
[21:38:36] <andypugh> Wierd, isn't it? Especially as this is nearly all existing, working, code moved to different files.
[21:39:19] <pcw_home> What is the symptom? (you may need to see what SSLBP says)
[21:40:10] <pcw_home> and try SSLBP reset if SSLBP is unresponsive (try reading the version to see if its listening)
[21:40:15] <andypugh> You mean reboot into DOS and see?
[21:41:13] <pcw_home> No, see what exactly has hung in your current environment
[21:41:59] <andypugh> I don't really know how to tell.
[21:42:39] <pcw_home> Try local SSLBP command (read the SSLBP version)
[21:42:57] <pcw_home> if that fails then SSLBP is hung
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[22:06:33] <jdh> silver steel and O1 seem to be close, but a little different.
[22:09:29] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:15228
[22:10:16] <andypugh> jdh: Physically or compositionally?
[22:10:40] <jdh> compositionally, according to a semi-random web page
[22:12:27] <andypugh> I think that only the machanical properties matter to you, though?
[22:12:45] <jdh> yeah. I'm not going to harden it either.
[22:14:10] <jdh> quenching methods seem to be more confusing than that. Dry Ice and acetone?
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[22:25:16] <andypugh> Sounds exotic.
[22:25:49] <andypugh> What they are trying for there is a very low-temperature liquid.
[22:27:15] <andypugh> I don't know what the specific heat of acetone is though. For the process I investigated it turned out that molten caustic soda was the quenchant of choice. And I still have the scar.
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[23:03:01] <andypugh> I seem to have managed to get Plastic Bertrand's "Ca Plane Pour Moi" stuck in my head.
[23:04:03] <andypugh> (from this better-that-average Youtube compialtion) http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=bMP9TdrLywo
[23:08:54] <pcw_home> I like the one that looks like motorcycle bowling
[23:17:22] <andypugh> I am trying to work out who that is
[23:18:08] <andypugh> Alice Pramas Ducati rider anyway
[23:33:09] <r00t4rd3d> i wish there was Thingiverse for just cnc router stuff
[23:48:17] <r00t4rd3d> does anyone use sketch up?
[23:49:05] <Jymmm> not recently
[23:49:29] <Jymmm> though it's installed
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[23:52:37] <Guest35689> Hi all, does anyone have any suggestions for testing hal outputs? I am trying to read the pport pins with a dvm and cannot seem to "connect" hal to the pport. No pins are changing although I am able to setp and see the change using show pin.
[23:53:53] <r00t4rd3d> Jymmm, do you know how i get rid of all the lines I dont want, just the edges?
[23:53:54] <r00t4rd3d> http://i.imgur.com/an3Vu.jpg
[23:59:47] <jdh> Guest: no errors when you start linuxcnc? Correct p-port? Correct P-port address? Using the correct pins for output?