#linuxcnc | Logs for 2012-07-19

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[00:04:08] <r00t4rd3d> http://i.imgur.com/B30gF.jpg
[00:08:05] <Valen> r00t4rd3d: lol @ the mouse
[00:08:25] hans is now known as hans_r
[00:09:04] <r00t4rd3d> sheep skin :)
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[00:11:58] <r00t4rd3d> i wipe my keyboard off with it
[00:12:10] <Valen> we have a membrane keyboard
[00:12:25] <r00t4rd3d> i got a brane!
[00:13:39] <r00t4rd3d> next time i got some money to waste :
[00:13:39] <r00t4rd3d> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370627999379
[00:14:02] <r00t4rd3d> then i can just spray that bitch off with the hose
[00:14:28] <Valen> heh yeah
[00:15:15] <Valen> http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=XC5172 is what we have
[00:15:49] <r00t4rd3d> i do small engine stuff too so i am always looking at pdf manuals while covered in grease and what not
[00:16:21] <r00t4rd3d> i would rather you choke me with one of those flexible kb's
[00:16:49] <Valen> lol that is a fair call
[00:16:51] <Valen> they do suck
[00:17:21] <r00t4rd3d> but disposable
[00:17:33] <Valen> this one just wont friggin die
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[00:20:32] <r00t4rd3d> hit it with a BFH
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[00:32:09] <andypugh> I have a stainless vandal-resistant keyboard which hasn't died yet: http://www.devlin.co.uk/keyboards/kiosks.html\
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[00:32:35] <andypugh> (delete that extra slash, ie http://www.devlin.co.uk/keyboards/kiosks.html
[00:32:41] <dangercraft> Hello everyone.
[00:32:57] <andypugh> Though I didn't pay anything like list price
[00:33:00] <andypugh> Hi dangercraft
[00:33:20] <dangercraft> Hi :)
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[00:34:35] <elmo401> r00t4rd3d: love the Nintendo controller ;)
[00:34:44] <dangercraft> I have a simple question I was hoping to bother someone with... Could someone help me with getting permission to use the forums? I got an email saying I needed to wait for permission but its been a while now.
[00:34:48] <elmo401> x y and z?
[00:35:16] <cradek> dangercraft: jthornton is your guy for that.
[00:35:41] <dangercraft> Ahh ok, do I need to email him?
[00:35:45] <andypugh> I used to be able to do it, but they Admin button disappeared and I can't figure it out now.
[00:36:13] <cradek> I bet he will see it here; there are two of him lurking
[00:36:34] <andypugh> <poke> JT-Shop
[00:36:43] <dangercraft> lol 2 of him :)
[00:38:11] <KimK> Andy used to be able to do it, but now he's stuck in traffic waiting for the olympics to start/end. Any stories, Andy?
[00:38:56] <andypugh> No problems here at all
[00:39:04] <KimK> Ah, excellent!
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[00:39:42] <andypugh> dangercraft: I found the approve/refuse link.
[00:39:54] <dangercraft> Excellent :D
[00:39:58] <andypugh> No sign of "dangercraft"
[00:40:12] <andypugh> There is a fair chance you are already subscribed
[00:40:48] <dangercraft> dangercraft is the username, and the email address is frank@aigint.com. I don't think I am subscribed, about an hour ago it denied me. I'll check right now.
[00:40:58] <andypugh> But as the user list has 2816 users, in seemingly random order, it is hard to be sure
[00:41:20] <andypugh> It denies me nearly every time I log in, until I refresh the page
[00:41:32] <tom3p> zerosheds: looking for Hackerspace in Chicago?
[00:41:49] <dangercraft> "Incorrect username or password"
[00:42:33] <andypugh> Try registering again.
[00:43:10] <dangercraft> Will do
[00:44:25] <dangercraft> Ok just reregistered
[00:45:00] <dangercraft> Ok got the user registration pendign approval email
[00:45:16] <andypugh> Nothing here...
[00:45:43] <dangercraft> scratching head
[00:46:09] <andypugh> Maybe JT has access to a more reliable interface. I am told that there are 551 users awaiting approval, but when I click, it says there are none
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[00:46:41] <dangercraft> oh well, thats ok, I'll wait - no hurry
[00:47:05] <andypugh> You can get fast help here, generally, too.
[00:48:07] <dangercraft> well, I have one machine I already set up with linux cnc and I just wanted to get some advice on the other two I wanted to set up as far as hardware
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[00:49:59] <dangercraft> The machine I currently have running is a 72"*120" lathe I am running having ac servos on the z and x axis and not much else, in the future I'll be looking at upgrading the setup to use a vfd and 2 screws on z but for now it does the jobe well
[00:50:48] <andypugh> 2 screws on Z for 2 tools?
[00:51:10] <andypugh> Which servo drives?
[00:51:54] <dangercraft> well, the saddle is 48+ inches wide and the ballscrew is on the cutting tool side, I'd like to add a second screw on the opposite side later
[00:52:22] <dangercraft> the drives and servos are Panasonic 750w with 50:1 harmonic drives on both the axis
[00:52:23] <andypugh> That could get interesting...
[00:52:29] <tom3p> crabbing?
[00:53:07] <andypugh> That isn't a small machine is it?
[00:53:39] <andypugh> 750W seems quite modest for a machine that size
[00:53:41] <dangercraft> well, its not noticable, but I am getting a slight crab I can notice from when I change directions and I can tell because it causes a lack of repeatability
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[00:54:22] <tom3p> the screw(s) should be at least 40-50mm for 1 meter saddle
[00:54:23] <dangercraft> its 750w but with the 50:1 I am getting about 1500 inch pounds of torque which is more than enough :-D
[00:54:36] <dangercraft> The Z screw is a 2" rockford
[00:54:47] <dangercraft> with the preload ballnut
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[00:55:13] <dangercraft> Maybe next year I can afford the second one :-D
[00:55:19] <dangercraft> ballscrew that is :-D
[00:56:06] <tom3p> got a year? :) look into gantry configs, similar considerations to your dual front/back saddle drive
[00:58:48] <dangercraft> my main concern is what happens when a z servo drive hiccups and the other drive keeps pushing, but looking at the pinout on the drive there is an external error alarm that I can use to stop the opposite servo in can of a power surge etc. And then routing the a,b,r from the servo encoder back to linuxcnc I should be able to make sure that there is a shutdown in case there is a difference in
[00:58:49] <dangercraft> screw speeds etc
[00:59:47] <dangercraft> If I can correct for that fast enough then nothing should break... I think
[01:00:32] <dangercraft> I wanted to post pics of the machine on the forum to see what ideas other people came up with.
[01:02:48] <andypugh> Hang around a while longer, I am sure JT-Shop will reappear eventually. But it is way past my bedtime.
[01:03:17] <dangercraft> Right now I mainly use that machine to turn locomotive and freight car wheels and it works pretty good, but then the tolerances acceptable for wheels are pretty loose (about +-1/32). I wanted tighten up the saddle so to speak and add a vfd with an encoder on the spindle
[01:03:28] <dangercraft> thanks :)
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[01:14:41] <dangercraft> PC crashed :/
[01:15:08] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: https://www.coursera.org/course/interactivepython
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[01:16:40] <ReadError_> anyone had linux crash mid cut?
[01:18:06] <dangercraft> Not linux CNC, but I've had a single servo drive crash mid cut... nasty when you are reprofiling a 3000 pound wheel :/
[01:18:16] <dangercraft> is JT-Shop back? :-D
[01:20:05] <dangercraft> If I were smart and not lazy, I'd have already connected the watchdog pulser to the drives and the error lines from the drives to linuxcnc to keep that from happening
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[01:31:41] <dangercraft> Last week I got my hands on a Jet 13x40 that had never been used and had been stored in a friends shop for about 10 years. He bought it new but never used it and I traded him some work for it.I'd like to convert it and I was thinking I'd use a 10kw AC servo connected directly to the spindle via a toothed belt so with a reduction so that at 3000 servo RPM I'd get 2000 spindle RPM. I was
[01:31:41] <dangercraft> thinking about using a 5mm pitch preloaded ballscrew connected directly to a 750w (1 HP) AC servo for Z and a similar setup for X. How does this sound? I'd like to add glass scales, but I am still a little fuzzy on how they integrate to linuxcnc. Any ideas?
[01:33:33] <dangercraft> anyone on?
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[01:39:53] <dangercraft> Hello again everyone... my connection is kinda spotty tonigh :/
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[01:40:30] <dangercraft> .
[01:40:35] <KimK> dangercraft: Hi. The wiki has info on how to use two encoders (one a glass scale). http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Combining_Two_Feedback_Devices_On_One_Axis
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[01:42:30] <Jymmm> pcw_home: https://www.coursera.org/course/vlsicad
[01:43:07] <dangercraft> Thanks Kim :) I've been looking at that, but my question is about the encoders with interpolation. All of the 2 micron encoders I have been able to find use ASIC interpolation and I am curios if this is ok or becomes a limiting factor at rapid feed rates
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[01:44:59] <dangercraft> for instance I am looking at the 1 micron scale at dropros.com, which seems VERY reasonably priced, but it also uses ASIC interpolation
[01:49:07] <KimK> It turns out that it doesn't matter (to LinuxCNC), since the high-res encoders (whatever they are) are only used for the I (integral) term, so if they're slow to catch up, that's OK. Of course, if they have a speed limit, and you exceed it (the encoders lose counts), that's on you, so read the data sheet first. Hope that helps?
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[01:52:12] <Valen> we use .001mm encoders
[01:52:17] <Valen> seem to work ok
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[01:52:58] <dangercraft> Yes, absolutely! I was under the impresion that linuxcnc polled it as it rolled so to speak so that if the asic freq was lower than the polling speed then there was nothing to catch up. That makes sense because then I am assuming linuxcnc uses the optical encoder feedback from the servo for a low latency solution and the scale for high accuracy like it says on the wiki. Now that makes
[01:52:59] <dangercraft> perfect sense, thanks! :9
[01:53:57] <dangercraft> Now I just need to figure out what the speed limit is on those... I'll send an email and see what reply I get.
[01:54:08] <KimK> Also, on your spindle, if you have a gearbox now, I'd be inclined to keep it. Big diameter heavy cuts at low RPM might tend to stall otherwise? Something to think about anyway.
[01:55:25] <KimK> Sometimes it's nice to have choices all the way down to "granny low".
[01:56:58] <KimK> Back in a bit.
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[02:01:27] <dangercraft> I figured 10kw (approx 13hp) or approx. 585 in lbs of torque would be ok for a 13in. swing would be enough, but you are right, its something to consider. The other thing is, all the gears are already there, I already paid for them I guess. :-D The other thing is that I wanted to take advantage of the machine having zero wear to turn it into a poor mans precision turning center so I am figure
[02:01:27] <dangercraft> I won't be doing any heavy cuts with it.
[02:01:45] <dangercraft> thats 585 in lbs after the belt reduction
[02:03:50] <dangercraft> Come to think about it, I should find out what speed the spindle bearings are good for, it would be nice to be able to bump up the spindle speed to 3000 rpm or more.
[02:05:29] <dangercraft> brb
[02:10:47] <Valen> we use them with mesa
[02:11:29] <Valen> servo stuff with pport could be dubious
[02:12:26] <dangercraft> back :)
[02:13:38] <dangercraft> Valen: If figured as much, I'd also like to use the servo drives at 10k per rev, so mesa or similar is also the way to go for that
[02:14:23] <dangercraft> On the big lathe I am using the parport with the drives set to 500 per rev, but with the 50 reduction its more than plenty
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[02:20:01] <dangercraft> anyone know if JT-shop is back online?
[02:20:13] <Tom_itx> he's probably in bed
[02:20:20] <jdh> late for him
[02:20:45] <dangercraft> ahh, you're right, I didn't realize what time it was
[02:21:21] <dangercraft> Well, I'll sign on tomorrow, hopefully I can get him to activate me on the forum
[02:22:04] <dangercraft> ok good night everyone :)
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[02:27:09] <WillenCMD> in through the worm hole always leaves me with more questions, than answers.
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[02:44:56] <WillenCMD> does anyone know if stepper motor's should have wiggle when holding position?
[02:46:02] <Tom_itx> no
[02:46:06] <Tom_itx> not really
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[02:46:36] <WillenCMD> im seeing .006 at a 4. o.d
[02:48:04] <WillenCMD> with a 10000 line encoder and some fancy tuning i got it down to .0012
[02:48:10] <WillenCMD> still thought it would be better
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[02:53:21] <KimK> WillenCMD: Are they small steppers? Any stepper motor is like a (200-position?) mechanical detent, if you twist it hard enough, you can get it to jump to another nearby detent. So there may be some flex. Is there flex in something else there?
[02:54:18] <KimK> Are you running the prescribed current? Does your drive use a current-reduction after some time with no motion?
[02:54:41] <WillenCMD> hmmm i do have reduced current mode disabled
[02:54:42] <KimK> (The latter may not be such a good idea)
[02:54:58] <WillenCMD> but there could be a reduced hold rate after a duration
[02:55:15] <WillenCMD> its not a dip setting but they are digital could be in the firmware
[02:55:21] <KimK> Yes, full current may be best until you get things sorted out, at least?
[02:55:46] <WillenCMD> i was always under the impression steppers had zero movement
[02:56:42] <WillenCMD> but i usually use them to drive leadscrew's or gearing mechanism. This is the first machine i have retrofitted for a customer that couldn't have any backlash so i couldn't use a gear drive
[02:57:17] <WillenCMD> i may have to invest in some 2600 oz nema 34's
[02:57:46] <WillenCMD> .0012 is the exact deadband of the encoder at that o.d so its either i switch to a resolver or a larger motor
[02:58:21] <KimK> deadband or mimimum increment?
[02:58:31] <WillenCMD> minimum increment
[02:58:38] <KimK> OK
[02:58:47] <WillenCMD> 10,000 lines at 4. od equals .0012
[02:59:32] <KimK> Oh, this is some kind of belt/wheel application? No ballscrew?
[02:59:53] <WillenCMD> its direct drive for a spindle used to sharpen hob's
[03:00:42] <KimK> 10,000 lines (40,000 quadrature counts) or 10,000 quadrature counts (2,500 lines)?
[03:01:09] <WillenCMD> i wish it was 40,000 no its 2500cpr
[03:01:10] <KimK> Oh, wait, this is stepper, sorry
[03:01:30] <WillenCMD> yeah im driving the stepper as a servo
[03:03:18] <KimK> Oh, really? I hope you'll post something on that, many have asked about it. I'm uncertain about it due to stalling. But having an encoder on a stepper for following error alarms would be nice.
[03:03:38] <WillenCMD> i have already done it
[03:03:54] <WillenCMD> this is the second one, its amazing completely changes the way it sounds
[03:04:06] <KimK> What about the stalling issue?
[03:04:18] <WillenCMD> Stalling?
[03:04:44] <WillenCMD> im using velocity mode
[03:04:48] <WillenCMD> in stepgen
[03:05:23] <WillenCMD> i am almost done with a gladevcp gui that allows for live tuning and save's it to your hal file
[03:07:06] <KimK> I meant when a stepper gets at the high speed end, its available torque goes way down (typically) so I was in doubt as to whether making minor adjustments via PID would be sufficient to get it back again. But it's been working for you? I'd like to hear the difference in sound, any YouTube videos?
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[03:07:46] <WillenCMD> not yet, but i'll record one the problem is its on an industrial machine so its noisy in there shop
[03:08:09] <KimK> Ah, perhaps nights or weekends, then?
[03:08:30] <WillenCMD> tommorow AM im dropping a bill off to them
[03:08:53] <WillenCMD> to make matter's harder i tuned that stepper wiht the encoder on the leadscrew of the machine and the stepper was driving a belt
[03:09:00] <WillenCMD> the machine has .01 backlash as well
[03:09:02] <KimK> I'll look forward to seeing your video, thanks.
[03:09:06] <WillenCMD> took 2 days to tune
[03:09:22] <KimK> I'll bet that was interesting.
[03:09:39] <KimK> Why didn't you pick servos?
[03:09:40] <WillenCMD> but, holds size within .0001
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[03:09:50] <WillenCMD> price
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[03:10:58] <KimK> OK, interesting, I'll look forward to seeing your video, and your blog, if you have one.
[03:11:01] <WillenCMD> i found a medium though between the 2, 3 phase steppre's using velocity with encoder feedback
[03:11:35] <WillenCMD> im designing a 150v steper drive, that uses an encoder for feedback and drives similar to a bldc
[03:11:55] <WillenCMD> thats in my spare time, wich is few and far between
[03:12:33] <WillenCMD> should provide around 1500 rpms with a flatter torque curve
[03:12:58] <WillenCMD> sacrificing a little holding torque
[03:13:47] <WillenCMD> it will also micro step in a pid loop as well adjusting the step resolution the closer it gets to the target position
[03:17:29] <KimK> Now that I understand you're running a "servo motor" (albeit an odd one!), then I'll change my answer to your original question: Yes, it should have play (or at least can be pulled off-center), like a mechanical detent with one giant detent (or pair of CW/CCW springs). That would be about normal for a "servo" loop. Which is really what you've got there. Interesting.
[03:18:44] <WillenCMD> it does it in plain step mode too, only alot more,
[03:19:15] <WillenCMD> i tuned .005 out of it, now it fights you the more you try and twist it
[03:19:45] <KimK> Good, yes, that is what it should be doing.
[03:20:01] <WillenCMD> used maxerror set at .0359 a tenth below what one increment of the encoder is
[03:20:16] <WillenCMD> Pgain is up around 400
[03:20:25] <KimK> Although it may feel strange with a stepper, I'd like to feel that one.
[03:20:55] <WillenCMD> if you try hard enough it will advance one tooth in the motor and immediatly rapid back
[03:21:11] <WillenCMD> but thats putting alot of force on it
[03:22:20] <WillenCMD> i used a torque wrench in plain step mode it will move at around 6 ft-lb wich is about right. But in servo mode it won't shift untill 10ft-lb
[03:22:55] <WillenCMD> thats with a torque wrench on the motor shaft
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[03:23:01] <KimK> What does it sound like while you are forcing it? I hope you will post something on this, many have asked about it.
[03:23:26] <WillenCMD> i know i was talking to andy, he said he didn't think it had ever been done
[03:23:39] <WillenCMD> i googled and everyone said it didn't work
[03:23:48] <WillenCMD> but i couldn't see why it wouldn't
[03:24:39] <WillenCMD> now i have 2 examples one with a 250cpr encoder and another with a 2500cpr encoder
[03:26:39] <WillenCMD> it really doesn't sound like anything its so quiet
[03:26:56] <WillenCMD> it doesn't make a sound moving a 240 rpms
[03:27:14] <WillenCMD> well it makes a sound but not nearly what you would expect
[03:27:24] <KimK> I can see problems if you use an encoder that has similar resolution to the motor step size, there may be aliasing problems then. But if you use an encoder that is much higher resolution than the motor step size, then no aliasing problems. You said you were 10,000 counts vs. 200 steps (800 1/4 steps)? So lets say about x10? That qualifies as >> I'd say.
[03:28:25] <WillenCMD> i doubt anyone doing positioning will use a 50cpr encoder
[03:28:45] <WillenCMD> i use a micro step resolution of 2 times the encoder, thats the key
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[03:29:03] <WillenCMD> it also works at exactly the same count
[03:29:19] <WillenCMD> if you go less you run into oscillation problems
[03:31:13] <KimK> I'm not sure what you mean by "...micro step resolution of 2 times the encoder..."
[03:32:01] <WillenCMD> 10000 lines on the encoder, a minimum microstep of 50 or 10000 steps per rev
[03:32:55] <WillenCMD> otherwise one step pulse would advance it past the encoder increment
[03:34:54] <KimK> Interesting. Microstepping that high, what would usually be excessively high, may help to "blur" the stepper operation. That may be helpful in this limited case?
[03:36:21] <WillenCMD> yes, most of the machines i retrofit require extremely high micro step resolutions weather it be a very slow feedrate say .0001 in/sec
[03:37:29] <WillenCMD> The first machine i used servo-stepper on the feedrate required was .00002 in/sec
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[03:40:35] <KimK> I have found that generally after about 1/4 step, maybe 1/8 step tops, you can't rely on the relationship of current to motor position. By the time you get to 1/10 or 1/16 steps, the relationship is pretty shaky, and by 1/20 step, you're just kidding yourself. Sometimes a larger than 1/20 step occurs, and sometimes no motion at all occurs. Now this is in "conventional" stepper operation, I mean.
[03:41:11] <WillenCMD> exactly, that was my problem
[03:41:59] <WillenCMD> a machine required to hold sizes of .0002 moving that slow any change in the load weather it be a tight gib in a certain spot would cause almost certain "no movement steps"
[03:42:38] <WillenCMD> thats why it was imparitive that i mount an encoder
[03:43:11] <KimK> Yes, I do hope you will write something up on this for the wiki, or for your blog. It will be read with great interest, I'm sure.
[03:44:09] <WillenCMD> I will i'll release the gui for easier tuning, because you have to set the ini file min following error and ferror extremely high at initilal starting
[03:44:41] <WillenCMD> of the tuning process, and really only 3 parameter's get adjusted
[03:44:50] <WillenCMD> Pgain, Dgain, FF1
[03:46:47] <KimK> Ha, you're way ahead of me, I still have a stepper (conventional) system that I have to go back and help add encoders and following error detectors to. "It's done, but did it miss any steps? How can you be sure?" lol.
[03:47:32] <WillenCMD> Usdigital have great kit enoders pretty reasonably piced
[03:47:39] <WillenCMD> priced*
[03:48:30] <WillenCMD> My customer has been running the machine in Servo-stepper mode for 2 week's hasn't had one following error
[03:48:39] <WillenCMD> i have the following error set to .0002
[03:49:46] <WillenCMD> well, im off to bed i'll continue the machine tomorrow and if i get there early i'll record a video :)
[03:49:49] <WillenCMD> good nigt
[03:50:16] <KimK> Yes, I like their E6D if I have room for the 2" disk, and their E5D if I only have room for a 1" disk. Great products. On the stepper system in question, however, we'll be using the AUI magnetic interpolator encoders, because the owner already has them. And since they're not in a loop, it should be minimally OK. Though I have reservations about the AUI's in high-performance applications.
[03:50:26] <KimK> OK, thanks again. Goodnight.
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[04:09:12] <JessicaRN> hey folks, anyone used the free rhino product? any thoughts?
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[04:12:25] <JessicaRN> ear, what happened to the emc chat?
[04:14:06] <Eartaker> this is emc chat
[04:14:10] <Eartaker> they changed the name
[04:14:15] <JessicaRN> doh
[04:14:19] <Eartaker> =]
[04:14:46] <JessicaRN> a few years ago it was hoppin
[04:15:22] <Eartaker> yeah.... not sure whats going on right now
[04:15:31] <Eartaker> they changed the name only a few months ago
[04:16:01] <Eartaker> oooo my band saw is done
[04:16:11] <Eartaker> 4 hours of cutting
[04:16:44] <JessicaRN> home built?
[04:17:53] <Eartaker> the band saw? nope, I was cutting a block of 7075 aluminum
[04:18:08] <JessicaRN> for what?
[04:18:13] <Eartaker> 3" wide but a 8" length of cut
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[04:18:23] <Eartaker> to machine down for the engine im building
[04:18:32] <Eartaker> this will become the base plate
[04:18:36] <JessicaRN> k
[04:18:53] <JessicaRN> model engine? what kind?
[04:19:05] <Eartaker> yeah a small hit and miss engine
[04:19:26] <JessicaRN> i'd like to make a mini flat four air cooled
[04:19:37] <Eartaker> that would be awesome
[04:19:41] <JessicaRN> simple project to start out
[04:19:48] <Eartaker> heh...
[04:20:12] <JessicaRN> what? a flat four is a petty simple engine, is it not?
[04:20:15] <Eartaker> not simple really, you have to look at the hard parts like the machining of the valves and cam
[04:20:22] <JessicaRN> pretty
[04:20:39] <JessicaRN> valve schmalve
[04:20:40] <Eartaker> the design is simple but in the home shop the cam and crank can be a PITA
[04:20:51] <Eartaker> lol
[04:21:11] <Eartaker> this is my 2nd engine. the 1st was a 2stoke so no valves
[04:21:21] <Eartaker> 2 stroke
[04:21:28] <JessicaRN> i never want to make a simple "hello world". If i make it, I wanna brag about it.
[04:21:57] <Eartaker> that is true, but you have to lean the code to make the "brag about program"
[04:22:01] <Eartaker> learn
[04:22:26] <Eartaker> I brag about my little 2 stroke diesel to everyone =]
[04:23:11] <JessicaRN> i've written some straight g-code. i just have a prob with the complex 3d curves for the art stuff i was talking about earlier
[04:23:55] <Eartaker> those can get crazy
[04:24:06] <JessicaRN> yep.
[04:24:55] <Eartaker> http://youtu.be/1BtOjeYtgqo
[04:25:00] <JessicaRN> there is an artist http://www.bathsheba.com/ who does some cool stuff. all rp though
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[04:26:10] <JessicaRN> nice
[04:26:28] <JessicaRN> now i know what ur hand looks like
[04:26:53] <Eartaker> thats an awesome bottle opener
[04:26:59] <Eartaker> haha yeah
[04:27:40] <JessicaRN> so anyone else in here awake? Has anyone used the free rhino product?
[04:28:12] <JessicaRN> if not, what g-code generation apps do you all use?
[04:28:16] <Eartaker> do you have a distro on linux installed on a pc?
[04:28:28] <JessicaRN> yeah, of course
[04:29:20] <Eartaker> this one is listed on the probix website http://www.gsimple.eu/
[04:29:43] <Eartaker> mostly 2d it looks like though
[04:30:11] <JessicaRN> yeah, looks that way
[04:32:33] <JessicaRN> with all the hobby cncers out there I would have figured that there would be a product
[04:32:44] <JessicaRN> has anyone used bobcad?
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[04:33:46] <tjb1> http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/486478_4068620269842_488764660_n.jpg
[04:34:27] <Eartaker> I hear bobcad is awesome I know a lot of guys on CNCzone use it
[04:35:03] <JessicaRN> i have a friend who has two seats and is willing to let me borrow one
[04:35:11] <Eartaker> do it
[04:35:18] <Eartaker> it would be a far better product
[04:35:30] <JessicaRN> with that gen my toolpaths?
[04:36:02] <Eartaker> yep
[04:36:17] <Eartaker> if he has the cam addon
[04:39:19] <JessicaRN> looking now
[04:45:08] <Eartaker> do you like Mach or EMC better?
[04:46:26] <JessicaRN> well, i'm much stronger in a win environment that a linux one, so mach. emc seemed pretty clunky to me a few years ago when i last looked at it.
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[04:48:38] <tjb1> I sent an email to mach support…never answered me
[04:48:48] <JessicaRN> shame
[04:49:04] <tjb1> Kinda like how I have been waiting 2 months for a catalog from 80/20
[04:49:16] <JessicaRN> but emc has no support eithe
[04:50:24] <tjb1> Yeah but to have support and not answer is pretty low
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[04:50:43] <Eartaker> tjb1, use the forums
[04:50:46] <JessicaRN> agreed
[04:50:48] <Eartaker> I like Mach
[04:50:57] <tjb1> It wasnt a technical question
[04:51:13] <JessicaRN> i wish i had the $$$ to go rp
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[04:51:28] <tjb1> The question may have been a bit stupid but a simple answer would have sufficed
[04:51:32] <tjb1> rp?
[04:51:39] <JessicaRN> rapid proto
[04:51:45] <Eartaker> what was your question?
[04:51:50] <JessicaRN> build up instead of cut down
[04:52:01] <tjb1> Like a reprap or a powder machine?
[04:52:07] <JessicaRN> yeah
[04:52:10] <tjb1> Eartaker: I was just asking if they had a student discount
[04:52:15] <tjb1> Which one?
[04:52:23] <tjb1> repraps are cheap
[04:53:24] <JessicaRN> actually neither. i wish i had a SLS
[04:54:01] <Eartaker> ahh
[04:54:15] <tjb1> Really hate when google chagnges what you search for
[04:54:31] <tjb1> http://www.buildlog.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/quantum_render_01.jpg
[04:54:39] <tjb1> Im gonna build that one…if he ever stocks the material for it
[04:55:37] <JessicaRN> well gents, I'm off to mess w/ this fireball.
[04:55:48] <JessicaRN> ciao
[04:56:09] <Eartaker> how about this one http://mendelmax.com/tikiwiki/tiki-index.php?page=MendelMax
[04:56:14] <Eartaker> cyaz
[04:57:00] <dhoovie> or the mendel90.... its the rage
[04:58:00] <tjb1> Are those special connectors for the mendelmax?
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[04:58:27] <Eartaker> 1 sec ill ask
[04:58:48] <tjb1> They must be, they arent listed under the misumi list
[04:58:52] <Eartaker> NM max isnt online
[04:59:04] <tjb1> I cant tell if those are printed
[04:59:06] <Eartaker> i dont think they are though?
[04:59:08] <tjb1> https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-DAFMPq1B48s/Tpk3UZ3EWhI/AAAAAAAADRw/Nsb2FL_kns8/s800/IMGP3204.JPG
[04:59:18] <tjb1> They look printed
[04:59:26] <Eartaker> oh.. those are printed
[04:59:36] <tjb1> I was going to make a prusa
[04:59:43] <tjb1> But that looks like a royal pain in the ass
[05:00:04] <Eartaker> well the guy who designed it is normally on here and helps all builders
[05:00:55] <tjb1> What channel?
[05:01:53] <tjb1> Im going to build this first - http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/473995_3985189344121_308481399_o.jpg
[05:02:06] <tjb1> but this spring I will be making a 3d printer
[05:02:19] <tjb1> most likely the hadron ord if he ever stocks makerslide
[05:02:37] <Eartaker> #mendelmax
[05:02:54] <Eartaker> he is in the process of moving right now
[05:03:10] <tjb1> The makerslide or mendel?
[05:03:38] <Eartaker> mendel
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[05:03:56] <tjb1> Thanks Ear
[05:04:00] <tjb1> Good night all
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[05:04:08] <Eartaker> night
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[05:43:33] <uw> so
[05:43:44] <uw> can anyone explain touchoffs to me?
[05:43:56] <Eartaker> as in?
[05:44:13] <FinboySlick> uw: They're a way to determine the distance between your cutter and your part.
[05:45:11] <uw> ok i only engrave right now. as in 2d stuff. i set the gcode so that pretty much the home z plane is on the depth i want to cut into the piece
[05:45:22] <uw> im pretty sure that is NOT the way it is supposed to be done
[05:46:18] <uw> so the z home is on the surface of the flat part - the depth of the engraving (something like 0.04 or something)
[05:46:28] <FinboySlick> uw: Well, I'm no great expert but my understanding is that you should see your gcode as 'floating'. And you use touchoff to determine its home.
[05:46:37] <FinboySlick> Typically a G54 offset.
[05:46:51] <FinboySlick> As opposed to the 'real' zero of your machine.
[05:47:13] <uw> ok ok gotcha
[05:47:15] <uw> however
[05:47:25] <uw> as far as the process goes, im not sure how to do that
[05:47:34] <FinboySlick> That way, if you want to engrave the same thing on a thicker board, you still use the exact same code, your g54 offset is set higer during touchoff.
[05:48:12] <FinboySlick> uw: Gimme a moment.
[05:48:15] <uw> if i had someone to show me, i bet id pick it up in like 30 secs. just reading docs im not sure what to do
[05:48:26] <uw> ok no problem thanks for answering
[05:48:46] <FinboySlick> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXGJqMiF31w
[05:48:52] <FinboySlick> Here's an example of a touchoff tool.
[05:49:07] <FinboySlick> It tells you the cutter is exactly 4 inches above your part.
[05:49:31] <uw> and yes i agree, thats the problem im comming into. if i engrave on a thicker piece of metal, i have to home on a different plane
[05:49:43] <uw> k 1 sec
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[05:49:54] <FinboySlick> So if you write your code so that the top of your plate is 0.
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[05:50:08] <FinboySlick> and the tip of your tool engraves at -depth.
[05:51:13] <FinboySlick> It won't matter if you set your touchoff tool on a 2" thick plate or a 0.5" plate.
[05:51:22] <FinboySlick> It'll still be the exact same code.
[05:52:05] <FinboySlick> g-code wise, you just have to start your code saying which offset is active (eg g54)
[05:53:05] <FinboySlick> Then, when you do your setup, you move the cutter a know distance from your plate, touchoff and tell emc that the tool is currently x distance above your part in the g54 context.
[05:55:07] <uw> ok so this the purpose of that guage tool, you lower the axis until the dial moves, then at that point it is 4" above the work piece
[05:55:22] <FinboySlick> correct.
[05:55:24] <uw> so you enter 4" as the touch off when it touches?
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[05:55:30] <FinboySlick> Yup.
[05:56:06] <FinboySlick> Then, if you tell the machine to move to 1", it'll be exactly 1" from tour part.
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[05:56:31] <FinboySlick> You could technically do touchoff sideways too, but flutes make that very difficult.
[05:56:59] <FinboySlick> So you use things like edge finders to touch off on y and y
[05:57:01] <FinboySlick> x and y
[05:57:22] <FinboySlick> (assuming here that vertical is your z axis)
[05:57:27] <uw> ok since i dont have that tool, heres what im going to do (correct me if im wrong)
[05:57:36] <uw> make my "homes" at the -x -y and -z extremes,
[05:58:17] <uw> lower the z to the workpiece and when it touches (by my eye), set the touch off
[05:58:34] <FinboySlick> uw: I'm not sure there's a 'right' way of doing things, but you usually want your machine's real home coordinates to be 0,0,0
[05:58:52] <FinboySlick> If you use g-code generators, they tend to assume that.
[05:59:02] <uw> yes pycam does that
[05:59:10] <FinboySlick> So when they'll set your machine to a 'neutral' state, they will often toss it straight to 0,0,0
[05:59:35] <FinboySlick> Which you don't want to be right in the middle of your part because it usually does a rapid to get there and can take you by surprise.
[05:59:56] <FinboySlick> It saves you having to re-edit most of the code you generate.
[05:59:59] <uw> ha yuptell me about it. i have learned that once
[06:00:06] <uw> $3 bit later
[06:00:33] <FinboySlick> So make your 0,0,0 a 'sane' place.
[06:00:45] <FinboySlick> Then you set a 'work' 0,0,0 using touchoff.
[06:00:54] <FinboySlick> Which is typically a corner of your part.
[06:01:29] <FinboySlick> generated g-code will send your machine to its 'real' 0,0,0 home first, then move to your touched-off home to do work.
[06:02:23] <FinboySlick> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0od-cp_9dg
[06:02:35] <FinboySlick> You probably want to watch this if you've never used one.
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[06:03:37] <uw> ive seen these before, and am loooking to get one, but i have a small machine
[06:03:55] <FinboySlick> uw I had the same problem, I can only chuck 1/4"
[06:04:08] <FinboySlick> What's your slowest spindle speed?
[06:04:21] <FinboySlick> you definitely don't want to spin an edge finder at 10k RPM.
[06:04:51] <uw> i can go from 0-2500 i think
[06:04:59] <uw> it is a sherline mill
[06:05:04] <FinboySlick> OK.
[06:05:07] <uw> its pretty common
[06:05:17] <FinboySlick> They can chuck 3/8" which most edge finders will give you.
[06:05:37] <FinboySlick> http://www.fishermachine.com/ has the only 1/4" edge finder I found.
[06:05:51] <FinboySlick> Their little sine bars are pretty cool too.
[06:06:52] <uw> i wonder what you're supposed to do with that 1/3 one
[06:07:16] <FinboySlick> 1/3...%
[06:07:18] <FinboySlick> ?
[06:07:25] <FinboySlick> 1/3"?
[06:07:33] <uw> yes 1/3"
[06:07:37] <uw> shank
[06:08:06] <FinboySlick> bigger machine I guess.
[06:08:52] <uw> i need to get some endmill holders
[06:09:36] <FinboySlick> Tired of screwing and unscrewing the drawbar? ;)
[06:09:39] <uw> but anyway, so far ive been making the 2d drawing on CAD exactly where i would want it on the lathe
[06:10:11] <uw> lathe i mean mill
[06:10:23] <uw> and yup
[06:10:25] <FinboySlick> I have to get going... People are more active here during the day, which is in about 6 hours for me.
[06:10:37] <uw> ok FinboySlick thanks for your time
[06:10:55] <FinboySlick> My pleasure.
[06:11:10] <FinboySlick> I'm still very much a noob but I'm glad to share what I learned.
[06:11:22] <FinboySlick> I actually have a little sherline too, but it's not cnc.
[06:11:30] <FinboySlick> I might convert it with my bigger mill at some point.
[06:13:17] <FinboySlick> Tom_itx should be able to give you a few sherline hints when he's awake.
[06:13:26] <FinboySlick> He has a very nice one.
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[06:52:18] <DJ9DJ> moin
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[07:08:09] <Loetmichel> mornin'
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[08:41:54] <Tom_itx> uw, http://gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/tutorial/gen05.html
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[10:23:03] <r00t4rd3d> anyone cut aluminum angle on a table saw with a wood blade?
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[10:36:42] <jthornton__> I don't think a wood blade will cut much
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[10:37:19] <jthornton> I've cut aluminum on a table saw with a carbide tipped steel blade
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[10:48:24] <anonimas1> my spindle almost caught on fire -_-
[10:48:55] <Valen> nice anonimas1 how?
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[10:54:50] <anonimas1> by the fat from the angle gear dripping out through the bottom seal.
[10:55:33] <anonimas1> making it slowly get more and more dry...
[11:00:19] <Valen> presumably you mean grease right not fat?
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[11:27:11] <r00t4rd3d> nah he packs his bearin's with mayonnaise yo
[11:27:47] <r00t4rd3d> its the redneck way
[11:28:35] <r00t4rd3d> when you change it out, you can feed the left over stuff to you hogs
[11:28:45] <r00t4rd3d> or your wife
[11:28:57] <r00t4rd3d> cause she is a fucking hog too
[11:29:14] <r00t4rd3d> OINK OINK
[11:35:54] <r00t4rd3d> i need to learn how to make parts in some cad program
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[12:22:14] <anonimas1> Valen: yeah, ofcourse..
[12:22:28] <anonimas1> Valen: new bottom seal will land here tomorrow :)
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[13:13:52] <r00t-Shed> http://i.imgur.com/0Vrix.png
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[13:35:02] <gmagno> hello. I just changed my z and y motors to test something, and I am observing a weird phenomena, in axis test, during step conf. I press one of the arrows to make the motor move in one direction, but that is not happening, in fact itstarts moving but suddenly moves backward... and if I insist it might move to the original direction again... and so on... anyone knows what might be happening?
[13:35:44] <jdh> steppers?
[13:36:05] <gmagno> yeah
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[13:36:11] <gmagno> nema 17
[13:36:40] <jdh> make sure all wires are connected well? The drivers/etc have worked correctly before?
[13:36:42] <r00t-Shed> whats your velocity and acceleration set to?
[13:38:27] <gmagno> jdh, they have worked in the previous configuration.
[13:38:38] <gmagno> r00t-Shed, vel: 2.5; acc: 30
[13:39:13] <archivist> make sure you follow your drivers set up time on the direction pin
[13:40:45] <r00t-Shed> try 0.2 for velocity
[13:41:11] <r00t-Shed> if i set my vel to high weird shit happens
[13:41:11] <gmagno> archivist, sure. r00t-Shed I just took the motor out and it works. Should this be a overload problem?
[13:42:10] <gmagno> r00t-Shed, I think I know what you're talking about, those are resonance phenomena, which block the shaft, right?
[13:42:17] <gmagno> that is not the case
[13:42:32] <gmagno> the weird thing here is the motor invert the direction
[13:42:52] <gmagno> and I just figured out there is a correlation with the load
[13:43:36] <gmagno> Im gonna put the motor back in the cnc
[13:43:38] <jdh> I had motors reverse on two occaisions due to a loose screw on a motor terminal
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[13:45:14] <Loetmichel> gmagno: had this reversi ng when i had wrong/ too fast timing fpr TB6560
[13:45:29] <Loetmichel> the direction pin was just to fast
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[13:47:04] <gmagno> Loetmichel, what direction pin?
[13:47:22] <gmagno> this is weird
[13:47:29] <gmagno> everything seems to be working now
[13:47:44] <gmagno> I should have made a video
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[14:00:50] <r00t-Shed> nothing like toast and coffee with a light dash of sawdust
[14:01:09] <paideia> :)
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[14:03:23] <gmagno> paideia, the drivers just got here :)
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[14:04:59] <mozmck> gmagno, I have seen things like that with gecko drives if the step polarity was set wrong also.
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[14:10:32] <gmagno> mozmck, step polarity?
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[14:11:13] <mozmck> active high vs. active low. some gecko drives use active high and others low.
[14:12:01] <mozmck> but it sounds like that was not your problem...
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[14:28:24] * JT-Shop feels cranky this morning and should stay off the forum perhaps
[14:28:41] <skunkworks> uh oh...
[14:29:26] * Jymmm tosses a raw steak stuffed with midol into JT-Shop cage... err direction!
[14:29:37] <JT-Shop> lol
[14:29:50] <Jymmm> =)
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[14:38:13] <skunkworks> pcw_home, http://www.cnczone.com/forums/linuxcnc_formerly_emc2/158450-mesa_5i25-7i76_spindle_issue.html
[14:40:16] <Jymmm> You know the .22r rifles that you load by filling a tube that's spring loaded in the stock? How/why doesn't that fire the rounds if you happen to drop/bump the rifle with the tip of one round butt up against the rim of the next one?
[14:41:38] <jdh> 22 are rim fire
[14:41:39] <skunkworks> I think it takes quite a wack
[14:42:20] <Jymmm> jdh: Yeah, and need an anvil (per se) too.
[14:42:38] <jdh> huh?
[14:42:55] <skunkworks> My marlin is a tubular magazine up the bottom of the barrol
[14:43:02] <jdh> mine too
[14:43:03] <skunkworks> barrol?
[14:43:10] <jdh> barrel
[14:43:12] <skunkworks> heh
[14:43:30] <jdh> you can hit them as hard as you want, they won't go off
[14:43:37] <jdh> (in the center)
[14:44:38] <Jymmm> I wish I could do that with 9mm
[14:45:34] <jdh> do what?
[14:45:58] <Jymmm> hit in the center w/o ignighting
[14:46:15] <jdh> that pretty much defeats the purpose.
[14:46:43] <Jymmm> heh, well because they are center and not rim fire
[14:47:33] <jdh> there are tubular magazine center-fire weapons. They use round-nose bullets
[14:47:50] <jdh> lots of carbines with tube mags
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[14:48:27] <Jymmm> any of them 9mm?
[14:48:57] <jdh> probably. There are lots of .357/etc ones
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[14:51:08] <jdh> they are lever action though, kind of defeats the purpose of a rimless round
[14:51:18] <gmagno> in order to decrease motor temperature I should use bigger microstep configuration, right? I mean, instead of 1/16 maybe 1/2. Is this correct?
[14:51:47] <jdh> stepper motor current and therefore temp is highest when the motor is idle
[14:53:10] <gmagno> these drivers should have a start/stop system then :)
[14:53:20] <jdh> many drivers have idle current reduction
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[14:55:36] <gmagno> i see
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[15:09:02] <anonimas1> looks like tomorrow is spindle bearing hunting day
[15:09:21] <anonimas1> 2krpm spindle at 5krpm.. do the math :p
[15:10:15] <Jymmm> 42
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[15:11:40] <anonimas1> tho, why things always die when they are in need.
[15:12:20] <jdh> things die all teh time, you just don't care for the most part.
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[15:17:16] <skunkworks> the K&T had a max spindle speed of 2400rpm. we are running it at 3000. It gets a bit warmer at 3k
[15:20:33] <skunkworks> (16 speed gear box and max of 2400rpm. Can you say - over doing it
[15:21:00] * anonimas1 nods
[15:21:06] <skunkworks> (well - it only had 2 speed hydraulic spindle motor - so that gve you only 32 individual speeds)
[15:21:07] <anonimas1> I have a 12 speed
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[15:31:20] <skunkworks> http://youtu.be/22dWg3GbywE
[15:31:22] <archivist> I had squealing from the spindle drive motor on my little cnc lathe yesterday too
[15:32:15] <archivist> no chance of hearing the background radio!
[15:32:42] <archivist> I need ear defenders here
[15:32:49] <skunkworks> (you can see the opto22's on the left count up binary)
[15:32:51] <skunkworks> heh
[15:33:07] <skunkworks> it is a bit quieter now.. we slowed down the hydraulic pumps.
[15:34:31] <skunkworks> (don't need the volume anymore)
[15:36:52] <archivist> and things failing the monitor on the 5 axis died, had to borrow the monitor from the lathe middle of the afternoon mid job
[15:37:58] <skunkworks> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikzUnPMNDnc
[15:38:13] <skunkworks> that sucks
[15:38:49] <skunkworks> THe monitor not the vide
[15:38:56] <skunkworks> video
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[15:39:34] <syyl> that machine is just cute :D
[15:40:13] <Valen> it made a towball
[15:40:24] <Valen> $13 from the hardware store ;-P
[15:40:46] <Valen> whats doing the simulation on that one?
[15:40:53] <syyl> but that from the hardware store is not 5-axis machined ;)
[15:41:03] <Valen> the bit where you can see the head moving etc?
[15:41:13] <skunkworks> Valen, visimach
[15:41:18] <skunkworks> part of linuxcnc
[15:41:26] <Valen> i havent seen that part before
[15:41:27] <syyl> what?
[15:41:31] <syyl> i can have that too?!
[15:41:31] <Valen> my dad will get a kick out of that
[15:41:32] <skunkworks> if you have the time - you can model your machine
[15:41:57] <Valen> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Vismach
[15:42:23] <skunkworks> Valen, yep
[15:42:39] <Valen> I'll have to take a closer look at that
[15:42:49] <Valen> oooh that could perhaps work really well with a thing i was thinking of
[15:43:15] <Valen> basically scan the work area with a kinect or something, and look out for gouging a vice or screw or something
[15:43:28] <Valen> or generally exceding a "cutting limit"
[15:43:46] <archivist> it should be renamed visemc not vis"other software"
[15:44:03] <syyl> hrhr
[15:44:26] <Valen> i would agree with that lol
[15:44:30] <Valen> i can sense a fork ;-P
[15:46:26] <skunkworks> always keep coolant flowing.. http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/testing/liquidaluminum.JPG
[15:47:09] <archivist> who need coolant if its cutting not rubbing :)
[15:47:53] <skunkworks> ;)
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[15:49:37] <archivist> alu sticks like shit to a blanket sometimes
[15:49:45] <Valen> rather
[15:49:50] <Valen> depends on the grade too
[15:50:17] <skunkworks> I love that the preview in that video actually shows a understandable tool path
[15:50:29] <skunkworks> linuxcnc is cool
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[15:51:25] <mazafaka> http://cs5344.userapi.com/u33085317/-14/x_4c3a814b.jpg
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[16:48:05] <mcenter> Woo Hoo! I got my axis tuned. (at least well enough, something tells me I could mess around for years getting *the* perfect params)
[16:49:15] <archivist> yes but what happens when you put a load on the axis :)
[16:50:13] <mcenter> :(
[16:51:09] <mcenter> At least I know how to troubleshoot. Halscope and calibration in Axis is mighty handy.
[16:51:48] <archivist> I loaded my thing up during testing, thought perfect, did some real work, it missed steps
[16:52:53] <mcenter> Now, I need to hook up my spindle. I am using a vector drive with encoding.
[16:54:43] <mcenter> The VFD has a 0-10V output representing percent full load. I need to record pwr vs position for an experiment.
[16:57:14] <mcenter> I am using a Mesa 7i77. The manual mentions software process data modes, in which 4 inputs can read analog.
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[17:02:57] <IchGuckLive> Hi all
[17:03:15] <joe9> with linuxcnc, when I get the latency test error, is there some latency figure that linuxcnc is comparing with?
[17:03:18] ReadError_ is now known as ReadError
[17:03:54] <ReadError> the one that says it only will pop up once?
[17:07:26] <alex4nder> yoh
[17:07:35] <IchGuckLive> joe9: did you check the SMI on your system
[17:07:58] <ReadError> alex4nder: *somehow* my backlash compensation has been off forever
[17:08:03] <alex4nder> ReadError: suckatash
[17:08:05] -!- Loetmichel has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
[17:08:06] <ReadError> it was in my ini.swp
[17:08:16] <ReadError> but my pcbs came out much nicer with it on
[17:11:56] -!- joe9 has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
[17:12:06] <alex4nder> nice
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[17:13:37] <joe9> readerror: yes, that one.
[17:13:59] <ReadError> joe9
[17:14:04] <ReadError> you need to raise the latency
[17:14:39] <joe9> ReadError: where?
[17:15:42] <ReadError> when you setup the configuration
[17:15:49] <ReadError> it might be in the .ini file also
[17:16:06] <joe9> ReadError: ok, thanks.
[17:16:20] <ReadError> base_period
[17:16:22] <ReadError> servo_period
[17:16:28] <ReadError> how low do you have them?
[17:17:03] <joe9> http://codepad.org/nGFG0Hit
[17:17:15] <joe9> joe-taig.ini:BASE_PERIOD = 25000
[17:17:15] <joe9> joe-taig.ini:SERVO_PERIOD = 1000000
[17:18:38] <joe9> ReadError: ignore the paste. had an old file lying in the directory.
[17:19:14] <joe9> http://codepad.org/ShbrwCmg
[17:19:32] <ReadError> hmm
[17:19:36] <ReadError> whats the latency test show
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[17:38:39] <IchGuckLive> joe0 do you need that high speed why not 100000 at BASE
[17:39:01] <IchGuckLive> joe9: this will lead to more then 2meters per min
[17:39:25] <IchGuckLive> this is nanosec
[17:39:48] <IchGuckLive> give the port more time
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[17:53:17] <nlkdavid> .
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[17:54:47] <IchGuckLive> O.O
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[17:57:34] <nlkdavid> I have a 3wk old install of Linuxcnc from the Ubuntu 10.04 livecd, yesterday & today package downloads don't work
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[17:58:54] <nlkdavid> they never find the server, any ideas?
[18:00:57] <archivist> nlkdavid, what url?
[18:01:20] -!- andypugh has quit [Client Quit]
[18:01:43] <nlkdavid> Could not connect to us.archive.ubuntu.com:80 ( - connect (110: Connection timed out) [IP: 80]
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[18:03:11] <archivist> probably better asking in #ubuntu
[18:04:10] <nlkdavid> ok, thx, will do
[18:04:10] <archivist> but us.archive.ubuntu.com works from me
[18:04:37] <nlkdavid> hmm
[18:04:51] <IchGuckLive> nlkdavid: buildbot is off sorry http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/
[18:04:58] <archivist> could be a temporary fail
[18:05:06] <IchGuckLive> devels are working hard to fix the problem
[18:05:45] <nlkdavid> ahh thx
[18:05:51] <IchGuckLive> NP
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[18:14:07] <IchGuckLive> so im done for this week BY
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[18:24:10] <joe9> ReadError: can you please paste your .ini file?
[18:24:10] <joe9> how much do you have for the periods?
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[18:33:22] <alex4nder> dc
[18:33:24] <alex4nder> er
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[18:41:30] <Diony> Hi
[18:41:58] <alex4nder> hello
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[18:42:20] <nlkdavid> hey
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[18:45:27] <eifeljogger> hi
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[18:56:41] <JT-Shop> ahoy
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[18:58:02] <nlkdavid> howdy
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[19:02:58] <andypugh> JT-Shop: Did you see any sign of a forum subscription from dangercraft?
[19:03:13] <JT-Shop> let me look
[19:04:29] <JT-Shop> yes, he did not respond to the conformation e-mail, I'll send another one
[19:04:58] <JT-Shop> have him check his spam folder in his email client
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[19:09:12] <ReadError> ah joe left
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[19:11:18] <uw> i think i need to set back lash, but not sure how to do it accurately
[19:11:40] <uw> heres something i did recently http://uwonfire.com/img/metal/bitcoin-otc-cnc.jpg
[19:12:03] <uw> the # doesnt look right
[19:12:19] <uw> do you think that's backlash related?
[19:15:02] <nlkdavid> I'm trying to get this camera to working in on my linuxcnc computer running ubuntu lucid 10.04 http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/component/kunena/?func=view&id=2198&catid=21&start=90#14278
[19:15:04] <nlkdavid> I'm testing with Cheese
[19:15:06] <nlkdavid> lsusb calls it 1e4e:0102 with no name behind it
[19:15:07] <nlkdavid> my limited linux knowledge led me to http://www.ideasonboard.org/uvc/ which lists my camera's id
[19:15:09] <nlkdavid> am i on the right track?
[19:15:35] <uw> does the it use the uvc driver?
[19:16:44] <nlkdavid> best of my knowledge, http://www.ideasonboard.org/uvc/ indicates so
[19:17:44] <andypugh> uw: Could be flex, or missed steps. It does look a bit wrong, but what does the artwork look like
[19:18:39] <uw> you mean when cheese starts up?
[19:18:40] <nlkdavid> sorry about posting ontop of u uw, didn't mean too
[19:19:19] <uw> andypugh, the lines in the middle are supposed to be on an angle like the rest
[19:19:24] <uw> know what i mean?
[19:20:00] <andypugh> Looks like a few "slips"
[19:20:26] <andypugh> But the rest looks perfect, so it's odd.
[19:20:55] <uw> its all good nlkdavid what does cheese say when you start it?
[19:21:42] <nlkdavid> cheese opens, lines go around in a star pattern like its busy, then cheese closes
[19:21:42] <uw> andypugh, i was wondering though, maybe because pretty much the rest of it is just x and y movments for the most part
[19:25:17] <uw> nlkdavid, what does lsusb -vd 1e4e:0102 say?
[19:28:51] <nlkdavid> allot! is there somewhere i can upload the output
[19:29:02] <andypugh> PCW_: How happy is an 8i20 with just hall-sensor derived angles? Did you mention that it doesn't like sudden changes in angle?
[19:29:21] <andypugh> nlkdavid: www.pastebin.com
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[19:30:00] <uw> nlkdavid, you can use pastebin
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[19:30:17] <nlkdavid> k
[19:31:42] <nlkdavid> http://pastebin.com/Qw74udrc
[19:35:54] <uw> ah im not really sure whats going on
[19:36:43] <uw> i would guess either the uvc driver isnt loading, or the device doesnt use the uvc driver at all
[19:37:07] <PCW_> Its OK but interpolated angles would be better so the current loop is not always following steps
[19:37:10] <uw> the people at ##linux might be able to help
[19:37:39] <nlkdavid> how do i check if ubuntu installed/has a driver?
[19:38:17] <andypugh> I will see if it is easy to do then
[19:39:15] <uw> its a module
[19:39:26] <uw> something uvc
[19:39:33] <uw> or uvc something, im not sure
[19:39:50] <uw> however, it only gets launched when the device is in use
[19:40:21] <uw> so lsmod | grep uvc wont show anything unless it's launched
[19:40:25] <uw> but i think your problem is before that
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[19:41:55] <nlkdavid> i haven't installed http://www.ideasonboard.org/uvc/ yet cause i can't download git-core package, package servers seem to be down
[19:43:01] <uw> id say you shouldnt have to?
[19:43:07] <uw> what os are you running again?
[19:43:38] <nlkdavid> ubuntu lucid 10.04
[19:44:11] <uw> yes the uvc driver surely is in that
[19:44:34] <uw> its odd cheese quits and says nothing
[19:44:42] <uw> what happens when you start it via command line?
[19:44:46] <uw> and more output?
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[19:45:44] <nlkdavid> ok, so that won't help. do u know the command by chance?
[19:45:50] <mcenter> JT, did you ever get analog input with an Arduino?
[19:47:16] <uw> cheese
[19:47:34] <nlkdavid> Segmentation fault
[19:47:58] <uw> well that almost sounds like a cheese problem there
[19:48:04] <uw> i wonder if you could reinstall that
[19:49:03] <uw> i run cheese 2.30.1
[19:49:10] <nlkdavid> not til the package servers come online
[19:49:11] <Tom_itx> uw which sherline do you have?
[19:49:33] <uw> hi Tom_itx the mill. Ill get you a picture, on sec
[19:49:45] <Tom_itx> there are 2
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[19:49:50] <Tom_itx> i have the extended arm
[19:51:14] <nlkdavid> i'm getting an error when trying to download packages: Could not connect to us.archive.ubuntu.com:80 ( - connect (110: Connection timed out) [IP: 80]
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[19:56:11] <JT-Shop> mcenter: I can't remember if i did or not
[19:56:43] <Tom_itx> my spindle control is goofy
[19:57:39] <mcenter> I was looking for a way to get analog input on the forum and saw a post from last year.
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[19:58:20] <uw> Tom_itx, three pictures http://uwonfire.com/img/metal/sherline_front.jpg
[19:58:43] <uw> http://uwonfire.com/img/metal/sherline_inside.jpg
[19:58:57] <uw> http://uwonfire.com/img/metal/sherline_driver.jpg
[19:59:16] <uw> i think it is the smallest sherline but theres no marking or plate on it
[19:59:55] <skunkworks> mcenter, I did...
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[20:00:29] <uw> nlkdavid, servers must be down
[20:00:37] <uw> that happens...
[20:00:45] <uw> theyll probably come back up shortly
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[20:01:10] <andypugh> mcenter: I am getting analogue inputs from an Arduino
[20:01:29] <andypugh> AH, yes, and Skunkworks too
[20:02:01] <skunkworks> I used what jepler had done http://emergent.unpythonic.net/01198594294
[20:02:07] <andypugh> I think he is doing it with userspace to the serial port, I am doing it in realtime to a UART on a mesa card at 1000000bps :-)
[20:02:17] <skunkworks> andypugh wins ;)
[20:02:36] <andypugh> the jepler way is simpler by far
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[20:03:14] <mcenter> andypugh: which mesa?
[20:03:21] <skunkworks> http://youtu.be/h-CdFd2Zakc
[20:03:42] <andypugh> 5i23. But they can all have UARTs with the right firmware
[20:03:58] <Tom_itx> uw, not much Y travel there
[20:04:32] <uw> yea its actually terrible
[20:04:42] <uw> i think its only like 2.5"
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[20:04:58] <Tom_itx> i get about 7" or so with mine
[20:05:36] <uw> i was doing a 4" disk, pretty much had to make 2 paths, mount the disk, do 1 path, then remount the disk and do the other
[20:06:00] <uw> i'm looking to upgrade
[20:06:11] <uw> oh you have that 4000 model right?
[20:06:16] <uw> with the head that tilts?
[20:06:20] <Tom_itx> get something more rigid than a sherline if you can
[20:06:23] <Tom_itx> yes
[20:06:47] <uw> i have a rong-fu mill drill machine that I would like to convert
[20:06:48] <archivist> old industrial :)
[20:06:51] <uw> kinda a big project though
[20:06:57] <Tom_itx> i can do quite a bit with it but i know it's limits
[20:07:19] <uw> do you have backlash issues too?
[20:07:22] <Tom_itx> i've had it probably 20 yrs or so
[20:07:31] <Tom_itx> y is the worst but i use comp
[20:08:09] <uw> i cut this yesterday, i think the # is messed up because of backlash issues http://uwonfire.com/img/metal/bitcoin-otc-cnc.jpg
[20:08:35] <uw> yea ive only had mine for a year or so, but the machine is from 1994 and is pretty much a novelty
[20:08:52] <nlkdavid> and i just fixed my package downloading problem, i had set a static ip last wk & didn't set the gateway right
[20:09:13] <uw> nlkdavid, doh!
[20:09:31] <mcenter> skunkworks: which Arduino?
[20:09:33] <nlkdavid> lol
[20:09:58] <andypugh> Any of them should work
[20:10:08] <skunkworks> uno
[20:10:24] <uw> what do you use to comp Tom_itx ?
[20:14:04] <nlkdavid> now that i could download LUVCview, the camera works!
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[20:15:16] <uw> cool i wonder if you can cnc and stream video from the same computer?
[20:15:31] <uw> i would guess that would be a bad time lol
[20:15:38] <skunkworks> shouldn't be...
[20:16:04] <andypugh> It ought to be possible, if a little foolhardy.
[20:16:16] <archivist> should be no problem, I have had a camera on the cnc
[20:16:21] <andypugh> But could be handy on days when the workshop was cold.
[20:16:28] <uw> i have a core2 that gets slammed when just mpeg4 converting/streaming
[20:16:44] <uw> maybe that + cncing would be fine?
[20:16:47] <uw> i dunno though lol
[20:17:01] <andypugh> The video might suffer, but the CNC ought to always win CPU when it needs it
[20:18:11] <uw> i wish i could just get the nice view part of it over the network
[20:18:22] <uw> even if it were like 5-3fps
[20:18:33] <uw> i cant remember what it's called
[20:18:58] <uw> the screen that has your model and shows it getting milled
[20:19:16] <uw> what is that called...
[20:19:20] <uw> you know the display part
[20:19:29] <nlkdavid> i ran latency test while running webcam-server with a logitech quickcam over night, the jitter eventually reached 25000ns or so
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[20:21:34] <andypugh> uw VNC?
[20:24:52] <nlkdavid> i've heard of people giving linuxcnc dedicated use of 1 processor in a dual-processor, wouldn't that improve latency while serving a webcam
[20:25:21] <nlkdavid> ?
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[20:27:40] <uw> andypugh, yea i guess it would work. i was thinking of something a little lighter but, sure that would get the job done
[20:27:41] <skunkworks> you would have to try it and see :)
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[20:28:19] <andypugh> uw: Well, it is built-in to Ubunto and MacOS at least
[20:28:38] <andypugh> uw: Just turn on screen sharing in the preferences
[20:28:55] <uw> for my cameras, i just run dedicated computers. pretty much just turn a webcam in to a network cam
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[20:30:06] <nlkdavid> VNC is great, it my exclusive access to my linuxcnc system
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[20:34:47] <nlkdavid> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Axis_Embed_Video is what i want this cam for
[20:34:51] <uw> andypugh nlkdavid , agreed, it does work well.
[20:38:09] <nlkdavid> i'm disabled & that would make setting up my fireball v90 a whole lot easyer to setup
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[20:39:29] <dangercraft> Hello everyone :)
[20:39:49] <nlkdavid> howdy
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[20:45:37] <JT-Shop> dangercraft: did you get the conformation email from the forum?
[20:46:26] <dangercraft> Hi! No, the lates message I have still say registration pending approval. Let me try logging in again to see
[20:46:43] <JT-Shop> I sent you a second one just in case
[20:46:53] <JT-Shop> check your spam folder
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[20:47:42] <dangercraft> ok, will do, one sec
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[20:50:15] <dangercraft> JT: ok, clicked on the confirm
[20:51:36] <JT-Shop> looks like someone beat me to it
[20:51:38] <andypugh> You should be in now.
[20:51:46] <JT-Shop> must have been andypugh
[20:51:50] <dangercraft> excellent thanks!
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[20:52:04] <atom1> andypugh, JT-Shop do you see anything wrong with this line:
[20:52:07] <andypugh> I am debating whether 80700997@vip-watches.ru sounds like a spammer, or a cnc watchmaker
[20:52:07] <atom1> net spindle-on motion.spindle-on => hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.gpio.039.out
[20:52:08] <uw> nlkdavid, how do you like your fireball v90?
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[20:52:40] <JT-Shop> that's a spammer for sure
[20:52:52] <dangercraft> a very important watchmaker :-D
[20:53:14] <andypugh> atom1: At first glance it seems plausible
[20:53:19] <JT-Shop> his name is a tip off to me Qsdcdubin IlqlctwhmTJ
[20:53:39] <andypugh> well, they do spelll funny in .ru
[20:53:49] <JT-Shop> yea
[20:53:50] <atom1> naw that's just a bad google translate
[20:54:52] <JT-Shop> Address: Moscow
[20:55:00] <JT-Shop> City: Moscow
[20:55:15] <JT-Shop> Zipcode: 123456
[20:55:34] <nlkdavid> nice machine, quite easy to assemble, 5-6hrs easy... only had it about 3wks though, made my cut last night
[20:56:17] <nlkdavid> my 1st cut last night
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[20:57:17] <JT-Shop> wow the vip-watches.ru disappeared like magic
[20:57:58] <nlkdavid> ran the LinuxCNC logo sample on some cider
[20:58:31] <andypugh> I rejected him
[20:59:16] <atom1> andypugh, i think i have other logic for it that may not be quite right, however it was working before i moved the pins around
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[21:00:55] <atom1> lemme paste it somewhere
[21:01:51] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[21:02:15] <andypugh> Bargain! http://www.ebay.com/itm/Harmonic-Drive-Systems-Servo-drive-Actuator-includes-gear-head-motor-and-encoder-/110918376614
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[21:04:19] <atom1> andypugh, http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/cnc/configs/sherline/spindle.hal
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[21:04:57] <atom1> when i use the button on the pendant then go back to do something on the axis screen, the spindle will randomly start
[21:05:25] <atom1> by do something i mean touchoff to the G54 axis with the current location
[21:05:44] <atom1> and it causes linuxcnc to get real sluggish until it updates
[21:06:09] <andypugh> atom1: Are you delibertely using toggle _and_ toggle2nist?
[21:06:21] <atom1> yes
[21:06:50] <atom1> i would have to sit down again and figure out the logic as to why i did it
[21:07:29] <atom1> turning off the spindle in auto mode isn't such a good idea
[21:07:36] <atom1> was part of the thought process
[21:08:14] <atom1> and you already saw the output line i posted here
[21:09:07] <atom1> normally it works fine but when i go to touch off to the work offsets it screws up
[21:10:19] <atom1> bak in a bit
[21:11:57] <nlkdavid> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYMxlFH20qc my fireball v90 running 3dtest example
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[21:14:04] <atom1> andypugh, is that a bad idea?
[21:14:13] <atom1> using the two together
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[21:15:52] <nlkdavid> the linear shaft positions need adjusted I think, why its a bit loud in the y axis
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[21:24:13] <nlkdavid> uw what software r u running ur webcams with?
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[21:35:37] <andypugh> atom1: No, it ought to be fine, I was just wondering if I had spotted an incomplete swap-over
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[21:37:48] <atom1> i just can't figure why the conflict
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[21:38:44] <atom1> i added the pulldowns when i did the pin swap so the input logic should be the same
[21:38:57] <atom1> i think i experienced this before that anyway
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[21:46:12] <WillenCMD> im having some dificulties, im using hal components yet again to drive a machine. Yet i can't get the same velocity i get in axis through my gladevcp program
[21:46:41] <WillenCMD> its or a rotational axis, its starting to drive me crazy. I feel like its a threads issue
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[21:52:59] <andypugh> Higher or lower?
[21:53:15] <andypugh> Stepper?
[21:53:21] <andypugh> Reset?
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[22:10:33] <WillenCMD> hmm i don't think so
[22:10:35] <WillenCMD> i'll check
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[22:11:06] <WillenCMD> nope its the same
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[22:11:48] <WillenCMD> for somereason the PID velocity output is lower
[22:11:53] <WillenCMD> than in axis
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[22:12:43] <WillenCMD> any thoughts on that?
[22:15:24] <JT-Shop-2> andypugh: so your thinking that harmonic drive might make a rotary axis or something?
[22:15:43] <andypugh> Might, for somebody.
[22:16:06] <andypugh> Though it isn't immense torque. And he won't ship to the UK
[22:16:25] * JT-Shop-2 should not cruse flea bay
[22:16:29] <uw> nlkdavid, they are thin clients and are running ffmpeg. they report to my zoneminder server that detects motion and records
[22:16:47] <andypugh> Spec is here, it's an RH-14D 3002 http://www.harmonicdrive.net/media/support/catalogs/pdf/rh-dc-servo-catalog.pdf
[22:17:28] <andypugh> 20Nm. It would work OK for a screwdriver...
[22:17:57] <Tom_itx> too big for my sherline
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[23:30:08] <Nick001-Shop> can linuxcnc control more than 1 spindle call per machine - like 3 or more separate drill heads on a special built machine - 1 of them rigid tapping
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[23:35:53] <WillenCMD> im sure it can be done
[23:36:05] <WillenCMD> gladevcp
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[23:36:58] <WillenCMD> if you want to retain the gui part of linuxcnc such as axis, embed it inside if not use standalone gladevcp
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[23:43:11] <andypugh> Nick001-Shop: DO you want to control the spindles from G-code?
[23:43:43] <andypugh> It's a bit tricky, in one way. What G-code command do you want to use to set the speed and turn on/off the extra spindles
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[23:48:59] <skunkworks__> andypugh: so the arduino interface with linuxcnc.. (by way of mesa serial) that is realtime?
[23:49:15] <andypugh> yes
[23:49:38] <skunkworks__> that is pretty cool... you would have realtime analog inputs...
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[23:55:47] <skunkworks__> how are you comunicating? 2 digital i/o pins?
[23:56:47] <Tom_itx> spi maybe?
[23:56:53] <Tom_itx> i2c
[23:57:49] <andypugh> Just serial
[23:58:11] <skunkworks__> using the usb interface?
[23:58:12] <andypugh> Some Mesa firmwares have UARTs on some pins
[23:58:22] <Nick001-Shop> Be back ltr dinner call
[23:58:46] <andypugh> I just wired the TX and RX pins on the Arduino to the RX and TX pins on the Mesa card
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[23:59:29] <skunkworks__> neat
[23:59:43] <jthornton> what did I miss
[23:59:44] <Jymmm> no ground?
[23:59:49] <andypugh> You can push an Arduino to 2000000pbs
[23:59:55] <Tom_itx> would an adc serial card with screw terminals be in order?