#linuxcnc | Logs for 2012-07-14

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[00:16:26] <andypugh> Must resist: http://www.sparkfun.com/products/10351
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[00:17:31] <andypugh> Hi WillenCMD
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[00:17:48] <pfred1> andypugh don't buy floor sweepings
[00:18:15] <pfred1> I just bought 3 more organizer drawer units
[00:18:21] <WillenCMD> pfred1, do you have a schematic of your stepper driver you made?
[00:18:33] <pfred1> WillenCMD yeah but it isn't worth building
[00:18:48] <pfred1> you can buy a chinese board cheaper
[00:19:09] <pfred1> there is a new toshiba chip out now that looks even cooler
[00:19:32] <pfred1> http://simewang007.en.ec21.com/Toshiba_Thb6064ah_Engraver_Machine_Step--5804224_5887880.html
[00:19:43] <pfred1> thing is a hawt rod!
[00:20:50] <pfred1> 4.5 a output current 50 V
[00:21:01] * pfred1 wants!
[00:21:43] <WillenCMD> i kind of want to experiment with stepper timing/encoder feedback via a microcontroller so i want to through together a basic mosfet drive circuit
[00:22:25] <pfred1> WillenCMD but if you want to check my drivers out for laughs you can see them here http://www.instructables.com/id/TB6560-Microstepping-Bipolar-Chopper-Stepper-Motor/
[00:23:12] <pfred1> ah then you want something like an http://www.spickles.org/projects/lmd18200/
[00:23:17] <pfred1> they're hawt
[00:23:53] <pfred1> BTW don't believe that page those chips are pretty expensive as far as chips go
[00:24:17] <pfred1> they have 4,000 mosfets in them though
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[00:24:36] <pfred1> so I guess if you break it down that way then they're pretty cheap
[00:25:07] <pfred1> neat how they do current control they sense 2 mosfets
[00:25:51] <pfred1> then figure the other 3,998 are doing basically the same thing
[00:27:05] <pfred1> WillenCMD I think the LMD18200 is the hot tamalie when it comes to mosfet H bridges
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[00:28:52] <r00t4rd3d> drilling holes for pillow blocks is a pain in the ass
[00:30:52] <r00t4rd3d> i can never get them perfect
[00:41:50] <WillenCMD> i broke 6 taps, driling holes for all the linear rails in the very first machine i designed
[00:42:03] <WillenCMD> tapping holes i should say not drilling
[00:42:37] <WillenCMD> it was 1.25 precision ground 1018 stock, and i couldn't get the right chip to come off.
[00:43:19] <WillenCMD> finally with due process i tweaked the speeds switched to peck tapping and found the sweet spot
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[00:55:31] <andypugh> I normally use a cordless drill :-)
[00:59:37] <r00t4rd3d> i just took a ink pad and pushed a pillow block on it then onto a index card :)
[00:59:43] <r00t4rd3d> perfect template
[01:03:02] <WillenCMD> lol cordless drill through 1.25 steel plate?
[01:03:33] <r00t4rd3d> a black and decker could do that
[01:03:37] <andypugh> Depends on the tap size
[01:03:41] <WillenCMD> 10-24
[01:03:49] <WillenCMD> so 5mm
[01:03:54] <andypugh> No problem
[01:04:16] <WillenCMD> but 36 holes
[01:04:25] <r00t4rd3d> 1 beer per hole
[01:04:25] <andypugh> Though it makes no sense to tap full-depth
[01:04:30] <WillenCMD> lol
[01:04:42] <WillenCMD> i like that method
[01:05:07] <r00t4rd3d> then in the end when its all fucked up your too drunk to care
[01:05:36] <WillenCMD> yeah, it would of been alot more fun milling out broken taps also
[01:06:13] <andypugh> I <3 my Ryobi LiIon drill. It cheerfully pushes a 55mm holesaw through 5mm of steel, then the same battery in the circular saw can cut through 6" of 1" aluminium bar. And still show amber on the charge indicator.
[01:06:40] <WillenCMD> was it free also?
[01:06:48] <WillenCMD> :)
[01:06:57] <andypugh> No, in fact he battery alone is $100
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[01:07:21] <r00t4rd3d> all the batteries are 100
[01:07:25] <r00t4rd3d> no matter the brand
[01:07:44] <WillenCMD> thats why i use earth batteries and solar pannels, with an hho genartor
[01:07:51] <WillenCMD> :)
[01:08:09] <WillenCMD> kidding of course
[01:08:19] <r00t4rd3d> tree hugger
[01:09:13] <WillenCMD> i did have some interesting experience's with hho in my beginning years of electronics
[01:09:35] <WillenCMD> including a really nice explosion in the guest bedroom
[01:10:21] <r00t4rd3d> is that where your penis went?
[01:10:45] <andypugh> hho? You don't mean hhoo?
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[01:11:53] <WillenCMD> no my wife took my penis way before that
[01:12:01] <WillenCMD> along with my man card
[01:12:32] <WillenCMD> its not that bad though, i don't have to make any of my own decision's anymore, and its not as sweaty in the groin region
[01:12:36] <ReadError> atleast you still have your ghetto pass and street cred
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[01:14:11] <WillenCMD> true
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[01:18:28] <WillenCMD> im ready for winter
[01:18:46] <WillenCMD> i don't feel so bad sitting inside working on projects :)
[01:29:14] <andypugh> I know that if you are going to apologise before posting something, you probably shouldn't but I can;t resist:
[01:29:17] <andypugh> An Englishman, a Scotsman, an Irishman, a Welshman, a Latvian, a Turk, a German, an Indian, several Americans (including an Hawaiian and an Alaskan), an Argentinean, a Dane, an Australian, a Slovak, an Egyptian, a  Japanese, a Moroccan, a Frenchman, a New Zealander, a Spaniard, a Russian, a Guatemalan, a Colombian, a Pakistani, a Malaysian, a Croatian, a Uzbek, a Cypriot, a Pole, a Lithuanian, a Chinese, a Tibetan, a Sr
[01:29:18] <andypugh> Lankan, a Lebanese, a Cayman Islander, a Ugandan, a Vietnamese, a Korean, a Kenyan, a Uruguayan, a Czech, an Icelander, a Mexican, a Finn, a Honduran, a Panamanian, an Andorran, a Moroccan, an Israeli, a Palestinian, a Venezuelan, an Iranian, a Fijian, a Peruvian, an Estonian, a Syrian, a Brazilian, a Portuguese, a Liechtensteiner, a Mongolian, a Hungarian, a Canadian, a Moldovan, a Haitian, a Norfolk Islander, a Macedon
[01:29:19] <andypugh> a Bolivian, a Cook Islander, a Tajikistani, a Samoan, an Armenian, an Aruban, an Albanian, a Greenlander, a Micronesian, a Virgin Islander, a Georgian, a Bahamian, a Belarusian, a Cuban, a Tongan, a Cambodian, a Manxman, a Qatari, an Azerbaijani, a Romanian, a Chilean, a Jamaican, a Filipino, a Ukrainian, a Dutchman, an Ecuadorian, a Costa Rican, a Swede, a Bulgarian, a Serb, a Swiss, a Greek, a Belgian, a Singaporean, a
[01:29:20] <andypugh> Italian and a Norwegian all walk into a very fine restaurant.
[01:29:21] <andypugh> “I’m sorry,” says the maître d’, after scrutinizing the group. “You can’t come in here without a Thai.”
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[01:47:17] <Connor> andypugh: You think it's possible to use 3/4" of travel from my 1" tavel on cylinder to somehow engage the bottom plate (below the belleville washers) so that the quill can be used?
[01:47:33] <Connor> I only need 1/4" travel to compress the washers..
[01:48:14] <andypugh> Probably.
[01:48:30] <andypugh> I am not entirely clear on the question.
[01:48:58] <andypugh> Can you mount the cylinder to the quill and make the question moot?
[01:50:10] * Tom_itx wonders if andypugh was loading the ark or just what
[01:50:12] <Connor> okay. Most designs I've seen.. use a plate under the belleville so that when to cylinder compresses against the draw bar, it lifts the plate and thus pinches the washers closed.. problem is.. the plate would prevent the quill from being able to lower.
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[01:51:27] <Connor> I was thinking of using something like a keyhole looking plate that in one position, is small enough to trap the washers.. in the other, would allow clearance for them.
[01:52:27] <Connor> Instead of using a extra device like a solenoid etc to engage that plate.. I was thinking of some way to use the extra travel of the cylinder before it reaches the top of the draw bar.
[01:53:16] <Connor> Not sure about mounting the cylinder to the quill...
[01:53:58] <andypugh> Yes, I think you could use a spring on the plunger to the plate so that the first motion somehow scissored the plate round the underside of the pinch disc thingy.
[01:54:39] <andypugh> Actually, a keyhole-shaped hole is probably what is required
[01:55:19] <andypugh> Plan B would be for quill-motion to disengage the plate.
[01:56:27] <andypugh> A simple lever operated by the top of the quill could slide the keyhole plate accross.
[01:57:48] <Connor> And maybe I'm nuts for wanting to maintain the quill...
[01:59:38] <Valen> we used to have a quill
[01:59:45] <Valen> we don't miss it
[02:00:06] <Connor> I was thinking of maybe a wedge shaped design that as the plunger went down for the first 3/4" it would cam the keyhole plate into place.
[02:03:27] <Connor> What's the most efficient way to convert vertical force to a horizontal force?
[02:06:37] <WillenCMD> worm drive
[02:07:01] <andypugh> djdelorie: On #sparkfun: Shadyman: I'll still have to hunt down a gEDA CC license logo and an OSHW logo
[02:07:24] <WillenCMD> i would be happy to supply you with gears if needed
[02:07:31] <djdelorie> easy enough to convert logos using psedit
[02:07:46] <djdelorie> I have a geda logo for geda already though
[02:07:56] <djdelorie> but you have to regenerate it for each size you want
[02:08:08] <ReadError> djdelorie, are you the guy that had those purple pcbs made?
[02:08:17] <djdelorie> which "those" pcbs?
[02:08:20] <ReadError> it was someone here
[02:08:21] <Connor> WillenCMD: How do you figure a Worm gear can convert vertical force to horizontal ? no rotation involved...
[02:08:23] <ReadError> some motor controller pcb
[02:08:29] <djdelorie> yup, those are mine
[02:08:30] <ReadError> and they had that cheap place that makes em
[02:08:35] <ReadError> what was that site again big guy?
[02:08:39] <djdelorie> http://www.delorie.com/pcb/geda-logo.eps
[02:08:54] <ReadError> well the site that made em
[02:09:01] <djdelorie> see it used on the back-side image of http://www.delorie.com/electronics/rulz/
[02:09:22] <ReadError> hmm
[02:09:24] <djdelorie> ReadError: see http://www.delorie.com/photos/cnc/
[02:09:28] <ReadError> it was the guy with the big wooden cnc
[02:09:30] <ReadError> is that you?
[02:09:35] <djdelorie> google for "dorkbot pcb"
[02:09:36] <ReadError> my memory fades me
[02:10:39] <djdelorie> andypugh: should I join #sparkfun or is that all you need? ;-)
[02:10:41] <ReadError> ahh yes thats the site
[02:11:38] <andypugh> You could just /join, give a link, and run away
[02:12:51] <Tom_itx> heh i've done that :)
[02:14:29] <taiden> what do we think of belt driven cnc routers
[02:14:41] <taiden> i can't seem to find any hard data on belt elongation under load
[02:14:53] <andypugh> If I was building one, it would be belt driven
[02:15:29] <taiden> on paper belts are incredible except for elongation and cyclical motion at velocity changes
[02:15:33] <andypugh> Ah, well, but, yoiu see, I would steal the brilliant Bell-Everman idea.
[02:16:06] <taiden> but again i haven't seen any real data on that, or any good anecdotes
[02:16:12] <andypugh> http://youtu.be/OdJoVh6DRPA
[02:16:42] <taiden> jesus
[02:17:07] <taiden> oh is it a straight belt
[02:17:21] <taiden> cut and wrapped around the motor shaft with a timing pulley on it
[02:17:45] <andypugh> No, the clever part is the second beld bonded to the frame
[02:18:07] <taiden> 2 thou positioning error
[02:18:10] <taiden> no load
[02:18:42] <taiden> i cant decide if that's good or bad
[02:19:25] <taiden> oh thats pretty smart
[02:19:28] <taiden> i like that design
[02:19:30] <archivist> Connor, a bell crank lever, hydraulics, pneumatics
[02:20:14] <andypugh> For a router? Brilliant. For a watchmaker, not good enough. Might be OK for a chunky clock though.
[02:20:35] <taiden> i cut lots of circles
[02:21:10] <taiden> they are currently +/- 0.015" diameter
[02:21:29] <taiden> but my spindle mount has a LOT of deflection
[02:21:48] <taiden> my bed is 8x12
[02:22:15] <taiden> spindle mount and y axis ***
[02:22:28] <taiden> i learned i would benefit greatly from a much more rigid spindle and a 18x18 bed
[02:22:52] <taiden> so given what i learned from my first router im trying to think of what the next one will be
[02:22:58] <taiden> belts certainly solve a lot of problems
[02:23:57] <taiden> the only thing is my spindle is really heavy
[02:24:03] <taiden> im afraid it would cause settling issues iwth belts
[02:25:05] <archivist> improve rigidity, add webs etc, diagnose errors,
[02:30:49] <andypugh> I reckon Servobelt adddresses all those issues. I really like the idea. You might need the right belt though, it needs to fit into itself.
[02:32:11] <andypugh> djdelorie: #sparkfun seems to be where the geek-kids hang out. They do seem rather younger than #emc
[02:32:51] <djdelorie> have you seen their ads? That's the target audience
[02:32:57] <WillenCMD> andypugh: well shit him heading over there, to hell with you old farts
[02:33:02] <WillenCMD> im*
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[02:33:29] <archivist> its my jubilee today!
[02:34:05] <andypugh> It's cool. I seem to have fallen into a bit of a gap between radio shack when it was cool, and now.
[02:34:33] <WillenCMD> radioshack went down hill
[02:35:10] <archivist> radioshit never had what I needed
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[02:35:54] <andypugh> Shouldn't complain, mind, I missed hardware cycles but was dead-on the middle of the home computer revolution. I was even described as a "Computer Whiz Kid" in print. (the local paper).
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[02:36:45] <djdelorie> My mom used to go to Radio Shack and tell them "Hi, I'm DJ's mom. What would he like for Chrismas?"
[02:37:06] <djdelorie> but that was a long time ago
[02:37:11] <andypugh> Did they ever answer "a girl" ?
[02:37:39] <djdelorie> I usually got a stocking full of blue cardboard parts cards :-)
[02:38:26] <archivist> I got a Philips Electronics Engineer Kit one xmas/birthday
[02:38:27] <andypugh> Yeah, probably more comprehensible and ultimately rewarding than girls.
[02:38:44] <djdelorie> Depending on the year, I already *had* the girl.
[02:40:19] <archivist> someone has created a site for the kit history http://ee.old.no/
[02:42:51] <andypugh> I have never seen those before
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[02:43:23] <andypugh> (EE kits, that is). I think I saw a girl once.
[02:43:59] <WillenCMD> the best gift i got, the radioshack armatron
[02:44:06] <andypugh> They look like chaps with bumpy fronts, yes (girls that is, not EE kits) :-)
[02:44:43] <andypugh> WillenCMD: There is a CNC armatron on Youtube somewhere
[02:44:53] <andypugh> It's marvellous
[02:45:05] <WillenCMD> of course that comes second to my erector set, and two lego mindstorm sets i had *cough* and still have :)
[02:45:19] <WillenCMD> i still to this day can get lost in lego's
[02:49:45] <WillenCMD> jeez did everyone go play with lego's or what, i didn't mean to stop the conversation
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[02:50:04] <archivist> must have been the ee10 or ee20 kit I had, I had plenty of lego
[02:50:49] <andypugh> I was always more into Meccano
[02:51:46] <WillenCMD> really andy i would take you for more of a lincon log guy :)
[02:51:54] <WillenCMD> j/k
[02:52:07] <taiden> i'm thinking 8020, surplus linear rail, belts, and my gecko/381ozin motor setup
[02:52:16] <taiden> and my bosch 1617 evs
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[02:52:24] <taiden> only problem is the Z
[02:52:50] <taiden> linear actuators seem to be hard to find cheap on ebay with 4-6" travel
[02:52:59] <andypugh> <google> Actually, that looks like fun
[02:53:21] <sam_p> I found a source of 8mils of backlash... loose coupler. Today was a good day :)
[02:53:28] <djdelorie> taiden: why not just some threaded rod? Z doesn't move that fast or often in a router CNC
[02:53:43] <taiden> yeah i would use acme rod for the z
[02:53:58] <taiden> i actually have a decent Z right now
[02:54:09] <taiden> could probably get away with just reusing it
[02:54:21] <WillenCMD> sam_p: I have been there before, frustrating
[02:54:46] <taiden> it's 5/8" shafting on oilite bearings with 5" travel and 3/8-12 1 start acme rod with delrin nut
[02:55:03] <taiden> i wish the shafting were larger but you get what you pay for i suppose
[02:55:04] <WillenCMD> sam_p: the problem was my associate was installing the motor's and connecting them to the screws, he forgot to fully tighten the couplings
[02:55:28] <taiden> was $155 shipped from John the guy who builds Microcarves
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[02:55:56] <WillenCMD> have you guys seen http://www.microrax.com/
[02:56:09] <sam_p> This was my fault. For one axis, I had to pull the coupler off the motor a little bit to make sure it meshed with the other side (it's a lovejoy coupler with rubber spider). I guess I forgot to tighten it. Doh
[02:56:59] <WillenCMD> i picture from andy i believe one of the dozens i saw small t-sloted extrusions like half inch, i couldn't figure out where they cam from
[02:57:10] <WillenCMD> came*
[02:57:13] <sam_p> I saw the connectors on sparkfun
[02:57:45] <sam_p> They sell adapters so you can mount a servo (rc servo) to the stuff
[02:58:01] <WillenCMD> i know, it looks pretty cool like a grown up erector set
[02:58:32] <sam_p> Have you seen this 3d printer? http://www.thingiverse.com/image:133869
[02:58:58] <sam_p> I never thought to use zip ties as a replacement for glue/screws haha
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[03:00:36] <sam_p> It makes me want to build a delta structure
[03:00:54] <WillenCMD> my wife wants a sprinkler system, i told her instaed i would build her a rover that would travel the yard and pull the hose to water the grass, always aiming the sprinkler into our yard, and minding elevation
[03:00:58] <andypugh> Fairly effective: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/577/ziptiefreak.jpg/
[03:01:28] <andypugh> Sounds like quite a challenge
[03:01:36] <sam_p> Slap some bondo on it and you're good to go
[03:01:37] <WillenCMD> i got the go ahead
[03:02:05] <sam_p> Your wife is brave :)
[03:02:08] <WillenCMD> so now its on, i figure i'll use a gps module and walk the perimeter loggin coordinates, then walk the house
[03:02:30] <sam_p> well hold on
[03:02:33] <sam_p> I do alot with gps
[03:03:07] <sam_p> What type of accuracy are you looking for?
[03:03:19] <sam_p> GPS can be off by quite a bit in regards to mowing
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[03:03:50] <WillenCMD> its not going to mow the grass, usualy gps is within 4 or 5 feet i thought
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[03:04:16] <archivist> and off by a lot more for height measurements
[03:04:45] <WillenCMD> ill use a tilt sensor for height, if its sloping down i'll tilt the head up
[03:04:51] <sam_p> Eh, the best a civilian is going to get you is 2.5m accuracy.. and that's with WAAS. That's not all the time either, that's a CEP rating or so
[03:04:54] <WillenCMD> and vice versa
[03:05:09] <sam_p> Assuming you will be 10m is a more realistic estimate
[03:05:27] <sam_p> The reported velocity will be very accurate however
[03:05:39] <WillenCMD> i could always use the electric fence line
[03:05:47] <sam_p> provided you are moving somewhat fast.. which I don't think you would want your motor to reach
[03:06:17] <sam_p> Yea, additional systems would be a good idea
[03:06:28] <andypugh> sam_p: If you have a fixed GPS and do differential, though,,
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[03:06:36] <sam_p> True, that will help
[03:06:38] <WillenCMD> true
[03:06:42] <sam_p> you can get excellent accuracy
[03:06:48] <andypugh> Like, inches
[03:07:17] <WillenCMD> im pretty excited about it, i used to have a robot i build with lego mindstorm that would roam the house when the lights where off
[03:07:26] <WillenCMD> this isn't to different lol
[03:07:27] <sam_p> even smaller with high quality survey systems.. but those use additional signals
[03:07:40] <jdh> and are pricey.
[03:07:46] <sam_p> Lets see, you could setup some radio beacons and triangulate your position
[03:08:10] <sam_p> Or if you mow in the dark, you could use a laser system, like that one vaccume uses :D
[03:08:19] <WillenCMD> i will install a rotating sattelite dish like the lawnower on honey i shrunk the kids
[03:09:03] <sam_p> Add a kinect to it, run it in the dark, and 3d map your lawn
[03:09:18] <WillenCMD> i like where your going with this
[03:09:19] <sam_p> Attach rotary encoders on the wheels to track motion :)
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[03:09:38] <WillenCMD> the night sprinkler, lurking in the dark
[03:10:26] <sam_p> I saw that movie
[03:10:31] <WillenCMD> i am going to use wonka vision to get the water to it though instead of dragging a hose
[03:11:16] <Connor> andypugh: I tried something today with my air cylinder.. I pressurized the retraction stage with a few PSI.. Then fully pressurized the extension stages.. when the air from those was release, the piston returned to retracted state.
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[03:11:51] <Connor> I.E. I used it as a "air spring" :)
[03:12:17] <andypugh> Might be a simple solution
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[03:13:54] <sam_p> Hey I've got a question for you folks. I don't have limit switches on my machine so before I turn it off, I always track it back to the machine home position. When I start it, I'm able to immediately zero everything and I'm good to go. Is it possible to put this in my ini script somehow so when linuxcnc starts, it automatically marks the machine point I'm at as the machine home?
[03:14:18] <WillenCMD> yes
[03:15:14] <WillenCMD> i'll have to track down the wiki
[03:16:28] <WillenCMD> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?CoordinateSystems
[03:16:55] <WillenCMD> alf F POSITION_FILE to find it
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[03:17:54] <sam_p> Awesome, thank you. I've been looking for that for like 45 minutes now haha
[03:18:13] <WillenCMD> it came up in one of the millions of emc user list emails
[03:18:22] <WillenCMD> i read them all when im in the can
[03:18:30] <WillenCMD> just fyi
[03:18:32] <WillenCMD> lol
[03:18:46] <sam_p> heh. Well, looking for it did make me come across the diy probe. I'm going to have to make that
[03:19:26] <WillenCMD> i might have to put one of those in the night sprinkler
[03:20:00] <WillenCMD> has anyone seen the movie Paul?
[03:20:00] <sam_p> Have you thought of making a lawn cutter?
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[03:20:36] <WillenCMD> oh im almost done with assembly on that, i was waiting for a couple of the dc wheelchair motor's to go cheap on ebay
[03:20:50] <sam_p> Nope. If I had a lawn, I would border the side with a black border. Whenever the grass needed to be cut, I would sweep a laser across the entire surface >:D
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[03:20:56] <sam_p> cut it all!
[03:21:30] <WillenCMD> sounds to harsh for the environment, i'll use a water jet
[03:21:51] <WillenCMD> or blade
[03:21:52] <sam_p> I found out there's a used wheelchair junkyard near me
[03:22:10] <sam_p> I need to check it out some day.. I can't believe a place like that exists
[03:22:20] <WillenCMD> someone kidnapping old people and salvaging the "hoover arounds"
[03:22:57] <WillenCMD> i see those people that take them out on the streets, and i keep thinking what if the battery dies before they get home
[03:23:45] <WillenCMD> does it have a "ship to shore mode" like remote control boats, so they can make it back apon battery failure
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[03:34:38] <andypugh> pelting down with rain again. I think it has rained every day this month. That is _not_ normal
[03:34:51] <Tom_itx> send me some
[03:35:18] <andypugh> Wish I could, it's flooding my workshop
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[03:35:51] <Tom_itx> we get hints of rain but no rain
[03:36:15] <Tom_itx> doing some rewiring now to free up that encoder
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[03:57:15] <pfred1> it is dry here
[03:58:29] <pfred1> andypugh http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/6593/flood2x.jpg
[03:58:35] <pfred1> wasn't dry here then
[03:58:54] <pfred1> I had me own lake!
[03:59:23] <pfred1> too bad i was living right in the middle of it
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[04:01:54] <uw> yea is pretty droughted here too
[04:02:15] <uw> but ill take it because last year this time, irine put a foot of water in my whole house
[04:02:39] <pfred1> that storm was right nest to me it didn't do much here though
[04:02:52] <pfred1> like the eye wall was about 8 miles from me
[04:03:01] <pfred1> I watched it on the radar go by
[04:03:11] <uw> you must not be in NY/NJ?
[04:03:21] <pfred1> it was right off the coast and i'm about 6 miles inland
[04:03:24] <pfred1> DE
[04:03:33] <pfred1> I mean it went right up the coast here
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[04:03:41] <uw> ah ok yea my parents live there too and they got nothing
[04:03:49] <pfred1> we actually got stronger winds the next day
[04:04:00] <pfred1> it was strange
[04:04:15] <pfred1> new england got hammered though
[04:04:27] <uw> yea it wasnt too bad for me, but then 2 days later water rose 12"-18" above the record
[04:04:53] <pfred1> I saw video of people's houses turning into waterfalls and stuff
[04:05:08] <uw> worst storm ive seen id say
[04:05:19] <uw> esp for the southern VT area
[04:05:26] <uw> they really got rocked
[04:05:55] <uw> so yea
[04:06:02] <uw> let it drought i say!
[04:07:20] <pfred1> I donno all the corn crops are failing
[04:07:43] <pfred1> fields here are burnt up to nothing
[04:08:18] <uw> yup i was down there for the 4th visiting them
[04:08:29] <pfred1> was damned hot
[04:08:45] <uw> they live in delaware city the corn around them is like 3' high
[04:08:47] <uw> still
[04:08:50] <pfred1> was the heat really kicking by the n Idon't even remember
[04:08:57] <uw> ill take it
[04:09:09] <uw> i was displaced for a week and came back to $60k in damage
[04:09:10] <pfred1> where is DE city that up by wilmington?
[04:09:12] <uw> let it drought
[04:09:26] <uw> next to new castle?
[04:09:33] <pfred1> oh i know new castle
[04:09:40] <uw> right on the water there
[04:09:48] <pfred1> I live in sussex county
[04:09:52] <pfred1> different world here
[04:09:57] <uw> oh ok yea youre way down there
[04:10:01] <pfred1> yes
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[04:10:13] <pfred1> but Know nes castle
[04:10:20] <pfred1> farmers market there
[04:10:20] <uw> do you know seaford?
[04:10:25] <pfred1> sure seaford
[04:10:29] <pfred1> nylon city
[04:10:31] <uw> yep usea work there
[04:10:33] <uw> dupont
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[04:10:39] <pfred1> you and everyone else
[04:10:42] <uw> haha yup nylon
[04:10:48] <uw> and teflon
[04:10:48] <pfred1> place is a ghost town today
[04:10:56] <uw> yea sadly
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[04:11:35] <pfred1> I just had to go out there to get a new sand filter valve for my pool
[04:11:54] <pfred1> I was due
[04:12:14] <uw> gotcha
[04:12:20] <uw> yea proprety is pretty cheap down there
[04:12:31] <uw> id like to move but dont know where id work anymore
[04:13:18] <pfred1> yeah stuff is pretty collapsed here now
[04:13:55] <nlkdavid> theres a town named Teflon?
[04:14:12] <uw> haha no its seaford
[04:14:16] <pfred1> nlkdavid there was but it didn't stick around
[04:14:23] <uw> oh now that i didnt know
[04:14:27] <nlkdavid> ah ok
[04:14:30] <pfred1> heh I wasj ust kidding
[04:14:55] <pfred1> yeah dupont transferred all their teflon production to china I heard
[04:15:01] <uw> yea it is getting worse too
[04:15:19] <pfred1> hey
[04:15:23] <uw> i was in wilmington then was transfered to seaford
[04:15:23] <pfred1> you could go work for amazon
[04:15:35] <pfred1> they're opening a huge distribution center here
[04:15:41] <uw> but they cut that back severly too
[04:15:45] <pfred1> 800 jobs i hear
[04:15:53] <uw> hmm wonder what they need
[04:16:00] <pfred1> probably everything
[04:16:04] <pfred1> they're just opening up
[04:16:15] <uw> i remember when that amazon warehouse put up
[04:16:19] <uw> big operation
[04:16:26] <uw> so they are opening another?
[04:16:28] <pfred1> yeah this is going to be a biggie
[04:16:41] <pfred1> they pulled out of texas I think
[04:16:48] <pfred1> something about taxes
[04:17:04] <pfred1> taxes in texas sounds funny
[04:17:18] <pfred1> here in DE we got no taxes though
[04:17:22] <uw> haha yup
[04:17:28] <uw> yea DE is real nice like that
[04:17:34] <uw> thats why my parents are down there
[04:17:43] <pfred1> me too I'm a tax refugee
[04:17:50] <pfred1> originally from NJ
[04:18:01] <uw> haha i hear that
[04:18:05] <pfred1> but i like it here it is so peaceful
[04:18:16] <pfred1> almost like I'm dead already
[04:18:20] <uw> i was from there, then went to de, then couldnt find work so now im in the greater nyc area
[04:18:34] <pfred1> oh yeah that is where I'm from
[04:18:35] <uw> yea that south DE is nice
[04:18:45] <pfred1> where abouts by NYC?
[04:18:56] <uw> im in nj in essex county
[04:18:59] <pfred1> I grew up in a town called Summit
[04:19:06] <pfred1> union county
[04:19:11] <uw> whoa swank town
[04:19:15] <pfred1> yes
[04:19:31] <uw> silver spoons haha
[04:19:40] <pfred1> my best friend in high school his dad was the senior VP of the NYSE
[04:20:00] <pfred1> yeah buncha ritchies
[04:20:03] <uw> yea i cant image the taxes in summit
[04:20:10] <pfred1> jon corzine lived there to oI think
[04:20:22] <pfred1> oh I can tell you what they are
[04:20:23] <uw> i pay 10k for a crappy lot with a small house
[04:20:30] <pfred1> when I got out i was paying 14 grand a year
[04:20:46] <pfred1> now 600 on 3 acres :)
[04:20:55] <uw> jebus it sure doesnt make sense to live there
[04:21:08] <uw> wow your taxes are 600 a year?
[04:21:12] <pfred1> yes
[04:21:25] <uw> huh thats crazy
[04:21:32] <uw> i really need to loook for a plot down there
[04:21:39] <pfred1> they even mow my front yard for me
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[04:22:16] <pfred1> for what i was paying in NJ they should have been serving me breakfast in bed everyday
[04:22:24] <uw> wow my dad was saying somethign that DE is funny with letting you build on a property though. is that true?
[04:22:31] <uw> i would need a pole barn haha
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[04:22:40] <pfred1> they don't seem funny to me
[04:22:52] <uw> are you allowed to build somethign yourself?
[04:22:52] <pfred1> the one rule we have is you can only have one domicile on a lot
[04:23:37] <pfred1> like you have to live under one roof can't have 2 separate houses with folks living in them unless yo uare caring for an elderly family member
[04:23:52] <pfred1> I donno I slapped up a shack in my backyard i never heard boo about it
[04:23:58] <pfred1> no one can see it back there
[04:24:16] <pfred1> I didn't put in a foundation or anything it is just hanging there
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[04:24:28] <pfred1> I got a picture of it someplace let me find it
[04:24:34] <uw> haha yea i would kinda need a garage. say, 36x54 or so...
[04:24:44] <uw> aka pole barn
[04:24:51] <uw> i have dreams of owning one
[04:24:54] <pfred1> buy an old chicken farm
[04:25:00] <pfred1> chicken houses are huge
[04:25:00] <nlkdavid> hehe
[04:25:05] <pfred1> I looked at one
[04:25:13] <pfred1> took me like 10 minutes to walk around the thing
[04:25:21] <pfred1> I wasn't walking slow either
[04:25:35] <uw> hmm thats a good idea/scam
[04:25:51] <nlkdavid> 36x54, nothing to big
[04:25:52] <uw> it could be a "farm" but the chicken house could be filled with machines
[04:26:07] <pfred1> chicken house is like 30x300
[04:26:25] <uw> 30x300 i would certainly take too haha
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[04:26:41] <pfred1> oh yeah they're gigantic
[04:27:00] <pfred1> there is going to be a job fair for amazon i heard
[04:27:08] <pfred1> you could run down and go
[04:27:23] <uw> now they are opening a place in south DE or north?
[04:27:32] <pfred1> I forget look it up
[04:27:59] <uw> middletown?
[04:28:10] <pfred1> could be
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[04:29:41] <pfred1> yeah looks like middleton
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[04:30:33] <pfred1> man when I order stuff off amazon it'll be here before i click the mouse
[04:30:57] <uw> haha
[04:31:00] <nlkdavid> sweet
[04:31:35] <uw> yikes 1M sqft warehouse
[04:31:47] <nlkdavid> wow
[04:31:51] <pfred1> we're a small state but we think big
[04:32:14] <uw> DE, we like our states small and our warehouses enormous
[04:32:34] <uw> oh and your smooth roads
[04:33:05] <pfred1> check out this place it is a gas station http://goo.gl/maps/oxML
[04:33:05] <uw> i remember my commute was on one of the smoothest concrete roads in the country
[04:33:27] <pfred1> is that the biggest gas station you've ever seen or what?
[04:33:32] <pfred1> they got a sports bar in there
[04:34:14] <uw> thats a gas station?
[04:34:19] <pfred1> yup Shell
[04:34:38] <pfred1> I go to a flea market they hold there on the weekends a lot
[04:34:39] <uw> Disney gas or something?
[04:34:47] <pfred1> its nuts isn't it?
[04:34:59] <pfred1> bargain bills
[04:35:12] <nlkdavid> ya
[04:35:24] <pfred1> when yo ugo in there it is like disney world sometimes they got live music
[04:36:24] <pfred1> mostly there ain't much of anything around here though
[04:36:37] <uw> thats perfectly fine with me
[04:36:41] <pfred1> me too
[04:36:52] <pfred1> let me find a picture of my shack
[04:36:57] <uw> if i have a decent job and my pole barn, ill keep myself occupied
[04:37:24] <pfred1> hit that amazon job fair
[04:37:31] <pfred1> http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/8210/72363334.jpg
[04:37:44] <pfred1> I built that just winged it no permit no nothing
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[04:38:15] <pfred1> I can't even see it from my house
[04:39:07] <nlkdavid> cool, run electric?
[04:39:17] <pfred1> only when I was building it
[04:39:31] <pfred1> it took me over 320 feet of extension cord to reach back there
[04:39:34] <uw> I wonder if i can be a "IT Manager"
[04:39:39] <uw> i dont really fit in to anything else
[04:40:00] <pfred1> you're a computer person?
[04:40:52] <uw> i guess?
[04:41:07] <pfred1> I always worked construction
[04:41:31] <uw> typically develop electronic hardware (like circuit boards) but lately it's computer stuff
[04:41:36] <uw> so are you retired?
[04:41:42] <pfred1> yeah
[04:42:03] <pfred1> I didn't want to but things got so bad I was like skip it
[04:42:09] <uw> must be nice
[04:42:14] <pfred1> ah
[04:42:22] <pfred1> I miss it plenty
[04:42:34] <pfred1> but don't miss some of it
[04:42:40] <uw> yea where you live id retire too haha. Id surely find something to keep me busy
[04:42:50] <pfred1> I do
[04:42:57] <nlkdavid> their automated order collection machinery needs electronic techs i bet
[04:43:01] <pfred1> someday I'll finish my CNC machine
[04:43:01] <uw> but im not quite ready for it yet $$$ wise
[04:43:40] <pfred1> I got off track with it when I got this computer but this thing is just about done now I guess
[04:43:53] <pfred1> I want to make these arms for my front speakers still
[04:44:02] <pfred1> I made brackets for them already
[04:44:09] <uw> nlkdavid, where did you see that "order collection mach"? a listing?
[04:44:10] <pfred1> but I want them on the ends of arms
[04:45:01] <uw> yea i just have a small cnc but im sure if i had the room id get a bridgeport or two
[04:45:23] <pfred1> check out these arms i made for my monitors http://www.instructables.com/id/Under-Shelf-Dual-Monitor-Support-Arms/
[04:45:34] <pfred1> yeah good luck finding a bridgeport here
[04:45:53] <uw> haha you know, i must have talked to you before
[04:45:54] <pfred1> DE was never exactly the center of machining
[04:45:58] <nlkdavid> just from videos of amazon order fullfillmant facilitates
[04:46:08] <uw> because ive seen these before
[04:46:16] <uw> they are nice man, gotta say
[04:46:20] <pfred1> they were my most recent project kind of
[04:46:38] <pfred1> I was screwing around with my solar pond for a bit but kind of gave up on it
[04:46:42] <WillenCMD> pfred pick anything cool up lately?
[04:46:49] <pfred1> well I gave up on making a whole controller for it
[04:47:10] <pfred1> WillenCMD not that i can think of this is the slow season now
[04:47:26] <pfred1> once it gets hot everything kind of dries up
[04:47:43] <pfred1> I haven't even went out shopping the last couple of weks
[04:47:51] <WillenCMD> i see, i went to look at a logan lathe the other day
[04:48:16] <WillenCMD> from 1946
[04:48:28] <pfred1> this was the last thing I got of note http://i.imgur.com/OCtWd.jpg
[04:48:36] <pfred1> that was a while ago now
[04:48:48] <pfred1> $10 that whole load
[04:48:55] <nlkdavid> that kind of machinery must require some maintenance / adjustment of mechanics & control systems
[04:54:11] <nlkdavid> is that wood?
[04:54:22] <pfred1> what wood?
[04:54:46] <nlkdavid> the screen arms
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[04:54:53] <pfred1> oh yes mostly
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[04:55:06] <pfred1> I made the brackets out of metal
[04:55:14] <WillenCMD> it looks like an electronic kit a student would recieve from a tech school
[04:55:17] <pfred1> but the arms themselves are oak
[04:55:25] <pfred1> WillenCMD that is what i thought
[04:55:25] <nlkdavid> ah cool
[04:55:50] <pfred1> WillenCMD except it came with some really expensive leads
[04:56:00] <pfred1> I mean nice jumpers
[04:56:09] <nlkdavid> ya
[04:56:16] <pfred1> I was happy to get them I don't have to omany as nice as they are
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[05:11:25] <nlkdavid> think this would be a decent lil keyboard for linuxcnc? http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/images/B005TWV9TU/ref=dp_otherviews_z_0?ie=UTF8&img=0&s=miscellaneous
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[05:23:30] <nlkdavid> .
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[05:34:13] <uw> sure that thing looks pretty cool
[05:34:38] <uw> i wish it would have one of those membranes over it though
[05:34:44] <uw> for dirt protection
[05:34:51] <uw> but still looks pretty cool
[05:35:09] <nlkdavid> hehe
[05:36:09] <nlkdavid> or http://www.ebay.com/itm/Solidtek-ACK540B-Compact-Black-PS-2-Keyboard-w-Touchpad-Compatible-w-Windows7-/310366181417?pt=PCA_Mice_Trackballs&hash=item4843441829
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[05:58:02] <pfred1> just throw your keyboard into a plastic bag
[06:04:25] <nlkdavid> lol
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[06:07:33] <nlkdavid> doesn't seem to be allot of info on remapping keyboard shortcuts in linuxcnc/axis tho
[06:08:54] <nlkdavid> http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.distributions.emc.user/12638/focus=12642 is all i found
[06:11:19] <pfred1> I just remember when backspace didn't work in Linux
[06:11:30] * pfred1 has been running Linux a looong time
[06:11:35] <nlkdavid> ha
[06:11:42] <pfred1> we used to have to do something in order to fix it
[06:12:06] <pfred1> I don't remember exactly what that is today man that was a long time ago
[06:12:22] <pfred1> but it was some file you had to edit or create and edit
[06:12:38] <pfred1> some crap that you'd think would have just been done
[06:13:08] <nlkdavid> heh, without making a mistake
[06:13:14] <pfred1> it still suggests to me that you can remap keys in Linux a lot though
[06:13:33] <pfred1> well you can always use ctrl+H
[06:13:48] <pfred1> I think that is backspace
[06:13:50] <pfred1> yup it is
[06:13:55] <pfred1> I just checked :)
[06:14:12] <nlkdavid> interesting
[06:14:14] <pfred1> but the frigging backspace key didn't used ot just work in Linux
[06:14:33] <pfred1> this is going back almost 20 years
[06:14:44] <pfred1> it was a long time ago
[06:15:12] <pfred1> I started running Linux in 1995
[06:15:23] <pfred1> that is a long time ago now
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[06:15:43] <pfred1> stuff was pretty crude back then
[06:15:50] <nlkdavid> ya, well I 'm into linux all of 2wks now, lol
[06:16:12] <pfred1> it took me a good 3 days to figure out how to mount a CD
[06:16:21] <pfred1> I was like read the thing!
[06:16:45] <pfred1> forget about getting online that took about 3 weeks
[06:16:55] <nlkdavid> since getting a cnc, hehe
[06:17:08] <nlkdavid> fun
[06:17:09] <pfred1> I never did figure out how to do it the right way I found a script that generated my scripts
[06:17:39] <pfred1> today I could get a monkey to run Linux
[06:17:52] <nlkdavid> lol
[06:17:56] <pfred1> it is so easy if you can drop in a CD or insert a USB you're golden
[06:18:37] <pfred1> I guess Linux asks your for your timezone a username and a password
[06:18:58] <pfred1> but you can uh huh the rest of it
[06:20:21] <pfred1> wait come to think of it a live image will just drop you on the desktop online
[06:21:24] <nlkdavid> well the gui is great for users, but advanced admin tasks r brings me back to my DOS days
[06:21:33] <pfred1> nlkdavid so you've only run Linux for 2 weeks?
[06:21:45] <nlkdavid> ya
[06:21:53] <pfred1> well there are some gui admin tools
[06:22:04] <pfred1> suse is big for those with yast
[06:22:18] <pfred1> you can do it all with yast
[06:22:37] <pfred1> thing is a linux system once you've set it up you're done
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[06:22:56] <pfred1> I ran one linux box for 8 years until it literally blew up
[06:23:09] <pfred1> the caps on the motherboard all failed
[06:23:13] <nlkdavid> will that run on lucid?
[06:23:23] <pfred1> yast?
[06:23:31] <nlkdavid> ya
[06:23:35] <pfred1> beats me
[06:23:56] <pfred1> but desktop environments usually have some kind of system administration tools
[06:24:04] <pfred1> like gnome has one KDE has one
[06:24:30] <pfred1> for that kind of jazz i kind of like the CLI myelf though
[06:24:46] <pfred1> I save text files of it then just copy paste
[06:25:19] <pfred1> there is a way of listing every package installed on your system then cloning it I was reading about the other day
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[06:25:26] <pfred1> works on a command line redirect
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[06:25:39] <nlkdavid> ubuntu lucid 10.04 has nothing about HW in the gui
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[06:26:22] <pfred1> you mean like the my computer thing in windows?
[06:26:24] <nlkdavid> that i found
[06:26:30] <pfred1> I saw one once
[06:26:57] <nlkdavid> like device manager
[06:27:00] <pfred1> though the name of it excapes me now
[06:27:18] <pfred1> today what freaks me out about Linux is udev
[06:27:24] <pfred1> that is kind of new to me
[06:27:54] <pfred1> that is your real device manager in Linux
[06:28:05] <pfred1> you know about /proc yet?
[06:28:18] <nlkdavid> no
[06:28:35] <pfred1> cd /proc in a terminal
[06:28:46] <pfred1> then all the files in white you can cat those
[06:28:58] <pfred1> like cat /proc/cpuinfo
[06:29:05] <nlkdavid> cat?
[06:29:11] <pfred1> just do it
[06:29:17] <pfred1> cat spits stuff out
[06:29:27] <pfred1> short for catcenate
[06:29:58] <nlkdavid> ah, like dos print
[06:30:04] <pfred1> yes
[06:30:17] <pfred1> cat is a big command
[06:30:36] <pfred1> this is a neat one you have to be root to do it though
[06:30:47] <pfred1> tail -f /var/log/syslog
[06:31:03] <pfred1> then plug in a USB device like trigger an OS event
[06:31:28] <pfred1> it is a powerful debugging tool
[06:31:54] <pfred1> you can head files too
[06:32:18] <pfred1> but tail -f makes it just go until you ctrl+c it
[06:33:05] <pfred1> nlkdavid you do know how to gain root right?
[06:33:24] <nlkdavid> sudo
[06:33:27] <pfred1> yes
[06:34:01] <pfred1> you can rig it up so your primary user has all root priviledges
[06:34:11] <nlkdavid> i love ssh & putty btw
[06:34:29] <pfred1> I don't use them
[06:34:41] <pfred1> I do use other linux networking stuff though
[06:34:57] <pfred1> I'm a big nfs fan
[06:35:09] <pfred1> one of my machines runs an nfs server
[06:35:23] <nlkdavid> ubuntu has a secret root password, only sudo works
[06:35:29] <pfred1> so it is a shared network file on my lan
[06:35:38] <pfred1> hmmm
[06:35:47] <pfred1> no what ubuntu does is it makes root's shell null
[06:35:57] <pfred1> so root can't actually login
[06:36:11] <nlkdavid> ok
[06:36:49] <pfred1> you can fix that if you edit /etc/passwd I believe
[06:37:36] <nlkdavid> i'll check that
[06:37:42] <pfred1> least i think that is how they lock the root account out from logging in would be the most sensible way of doing it
[06:38:18] * pfred1 doesn't run Ubuntu
[06:39:08] <pfred1> grep root /etc/passwd
[06:39:30] <pfred1> root:x:0:0:root:/root:/bin/bash
[06:39:38] <pfred1> /exec -o grep root /etc/passwd
[06:40:13] * pfred1 shells in his IRC client ...
[06:41:29] <pfred1> I wonder how Ubuntu handles single user mode though?
[06:41:38] <pfred1> where you have to be root
[06:42:33] <nlkdavid> bare with me, i'm disabled, & use an on-screen keyboard
[06:44:17] <pfred1> see that is one of the things I don't like about Ubuntu they treat their users like they are not to be trusted
[06:44:32] <pfred1> I mean why screw up the root account?
[06:45:14] <pfred1> nlkdavid do you know about virtual consoles?
[06:45:37] <pfred1> this can be a handy thing to know if an X Window app goes south on you
[06:46:39] <nlkdavid> no, i'm using vnc remote desktop tho
[06:46:48] <nlkdavid> id@linuxcnc:~$ sudo nano /etc/passwd
[06:47:11] <pfred1> ah so you're not really running a native Linux session?
[06:49:58] <nlkdavid> i'm on my XP desktop, i'm controlling my linuxcnc/ubuntu computer, which is in next room, via vnc & ssh
[06:50:22] <pfred1> neat
[06:52:38] <toastydeath> derp
[06:53:12] <nlkdavid> root@linuxcnc:/home/nlkdavid# sudo grep root /etc/passwd
[06:53:36] <pfred1> passwd is world readable
[06:53:36] <nlkdavid> root:x:0:0:root:/root:/bin/bash
[06:53:51] <pfred1> hmm so that isn't how ubuntu stops root logins
[06:53:58] <toner> yeah, look at shadow ;)
[06:54:20] <pfred1> I thought shadow just held the encoded passwords?
[06:54:23] <nlkdavid> root@linuxcnc:/home/nlkdavid# /exec -o grep root /etc/passwd
[06:54:24] <toner> yeah
[06:54:26] <toner> so good luck
[06:54:44] <toner> put on your cryptanalysis hat
[06:54:51] <nlkdavid> bash: /exec: No such file or directory
[06:55:03] <pfred1> I've forgotten my root password on boxes and had to erase it
[06:55:28] <toner> single user mode for that
[06:55:29] <pfred1> nlkdavid /exec is a thing with my IRC client
[06:55:37] <toner> er oh oops
[06:55:42] <toner> bootcd?
[06:56:01] <pfred1> that is how I did it boot CD then mount partition then remove the field in passwd
[06:56:13] <pfred1> so you have a null passwd
[06:56:27] <toner> nice
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[06:56:46] <toner> I think there is also some trick with chroot
[06:56:48] <pfred1> now I'm smart i just put my password on a postit note on my computer
[06:56:53] <toner> but I haven't had to do that in years
[06:57:00] <toner> hehe
[06:57:01] <DJ9DJ> moin
[06:57:20] <toner> hey dj
[06:57:54] <pfred1> well I have like 5 computers and i use different passwords on each of them how am I supposed to remember that stuff?
[06:58:11] <pfred1> some of them i don't login or out for long times
[06:58:34] <pfred1> skip it postit note
[06:58:37] <toner> heh
[06:58:37] <nlkdavid> -o grep root /etc/passwd
[06:58:41] <nlkdavid> -o: command not found
[06:58:43] <toner> passwd()n3
[06:58:49] <toner> passwd+\/\/0
[06:58:59] <toner> passwd+Hr33
[06:59:03] <toner> yeah I would still forget all of those
[06:59:37] <pfred1> I love postit notes
[06:59:47] <pfred1> what a huge fail win
[07:00:00] <pfred1> hey we got this glue that sticks liek crap
[07:00:08] <toner> hahah
[07:00:13] <pfred1> lets make a fortune with it!
[07:00:22] <toner> a silver lining :)
[07:00:54] <pfred1> I hear the guy was sitting on the pot all depressed about it when he came up with the idea
[07:01:05] <toner> haha
[07:01:09] <pfred1> I mean the glue was supposed to work a lot better
[07:01:09] <toner> I had not heard that story
[07:01:19] <toner> interesting
[07:02:23] <pfred1> no one set up to make such a weak adhesive
[07:06:07] <nlkdavid> root:x:0:0:root:/root:/bin/bash do i remove /bin/bash?
[07:08:18] <pfred1> no it is fine
[07:08:26] <nlkdavid> or add root: to my account
[07:08:33] <pfred1> that isn't how ubuntu keeps you from logging as root
[07:08:49] <nlkdavid> oh k
[07:08:49] <pfred1> beats me how they do it
[07:09:10] <pfred1> least they do setup sudo nice
[07:09:21] <nlkdavid> ya
[07:09:31] <pfred1> debian I have to edit sudoers
[07:10:42] <pfred1> but sudoers is where you can escalate your user's privledges
[07:11:09] <pfred1> I think you can add your user to the wheel group too or something and that does a lot for it
[07:11:11] <nlkdavid> r u not running emc2/linuxcnc on one of ur computers?
[07:11:23] <pfred1> I made a custom build
[07:11:41] <pfred1> I downloaded the source code
[07:12:16] <nlkdavid> what OS u running it on?
[07:12:19] * pfred1 really doesn't like Ubuntu ...
[07:12:29] <pfred1> I use Debian Lenny on my CNC machine
[07:12:41] <nlkdavid> ah
[07:12:51] <pfred1> so it is still Linux
[07:12:57] <pfred1> just not Ubuntu
[07:12:59] <nlkdavid> ya
[07:13:23] <pfred1> that box will run X Window in 32MB of RAM
[07:13:44] <pfred1> which is pretty amazing
[07:14:00] <nlkdavid> really
[07:14:19] <pfred1> it boots up in 18 seconds too which ain't bad for a 1GHz P3
[07:14:31] <nlkdavid> nice
[07:15:02] <pfred1> http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/2250/wedoct27bootchart.png
[07:15:12] <pfred1> oh wait 16 seconds
[07:15:59] <nlkdavid> even ubuntu is dam quick booting
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[07:16:15] <pfred1> my i3 comes up in 5 seconds
[07:16:43] <pfred1> I never even bothered tuning it up any
[07:16:52] <nlkdavid> compared to windows, its astonishing
[07:17:03] <pfred1> yeah windows isn't a real OS
[07:17:15] <nlkdavid> hehe
[07:17:28] <pfred1> I wouldn't let the stuff time a coffee pot
[07:17:57] <pfred1> but it is awfully popular
[07:18:34] <pfred1> I think it is because everyone gets it for "free" when they buy PCs
[07:19:17] <nlkdavid> ya, why i'm not running Mach3, windows is the wrong os for cnc control
[07:19:23] <pfred1> as easy as Linux may be to install I still think it is too challenging for a lot of folks to do
[07:19:46] <nlkdavid> it is
[07:19:55] <pfred1> well those mach3 people all seem pretty pleased
[07:21:08] <pfred1> personally I think the mach3 interface looks like something ripped off a video poker machine from Vegas
[07:21:22] <nlkdavid> I'm manageing with ubuntu cause i'm very computer savy + google
[07:21:57] <pfred1> my Linux use predated google
[07:22:26] <nlkdavid> ya
[07:22:35] <pfred1> but I google a lot of stuff today and google does seem to have a soft spot for Linux
[07:22:59] <pfred1> sometimes I search for Linux stuff with bing just to piss microsoft off
[07:23:10] <nlkdavid> lol
[07:23:38] <pfred1> I bet bing runs on Linux
[07:23:44] <pfred1> they'd be crazy to run it on windows
[07:24:44] <pfred1> that is where Linux really owns is in all that gigantic parallel computing
[07:25:03] <pfred1> 92% of the world's fastest supercomputers all run Linux
[07:26:01] <pfred1> http://www.top500.org/
[07:26:32] <pfred1> Sequoia runs Red Hat
[07:26:56] <pfred1> which I must say is quite a feather in their fedora
[07:27:50] <pfred1> imagine licensing 1,572,864 cores with Windows
[07:28:23] <pfred1> I bet Steve Ballmer would personally hand deliver that!
[07:28:29] <nlkdavid> ouch! oh about the Windows comes free with computers, now cheap computers come with Win7 Starter Edition, which doesn't even allow changing ur wallpaper
[07:29:26] <pfred1> well with the cost of PCs today Windows is no small chunk of the total
[07:29:44] <pfred1> they gotta charge about $100 for Windows
[07:30:13] <pfred1> last PC I built whole thing was only $326
[07:30:49] <pfred1> so Windows would be a good third of the price
[07:31:52] <pfred1> I read the win7 EULA the other day and technically you can't even let someone else look at your PC while you're running it
[07:32:14] <pfred1> you're breaking the rules!
[07:32:30] <nlkdavid> well, i bought win xp once like 9yrs ago, installed it on many builds
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[07:33:00] <pfred1> I ran SUSE 8 for almost 9 years on one PC
[07:33:09] <pfred1> but it blew up
[07:33:16] <nlkdavid> lol
[07:33:18] <pfred1> the PC not SUSE
[07:33:37] <pfred1> I pulled the HDD out of that machine and it booted in another system I built out of junk
[07:34:10] <pfred1> it did run kind of funny though
[07:34:26] <pfred1> lots of errors when it booted up
[07:35:11] <pfred1> after a couple of weeks i had to wipe it out and start fresh
[07:39:18] <nlkdavid> will u b here tomorrow? i needa get some sleep
[07:39:29] <pfred1> I pop in now and again
[07:40:01] <pfred1> I'm going to hit it too late here
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[08:13:09] <Sub-> morning
[08:13:37] <Sub-> just reading the wiki, thought id drop in n see how active the irc channel was :)
[08:19:53] <fragalot> not very
[08:19:54] <fragalot> :D
[08:19:59] <Sub-> heh
[08:20:25] <Sub-> early morning on a saturday anyway
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[08:35:21] <Sub-> im interested in using emc2.linuxcnc as a controller for a delta robot
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[09:57:13] <r00t4rd3d> ROAR!
[09:57:27] <Sub-> noisy
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[10:21:20] <Sub-> I could use a little advice on hardware, if someone can help? I have a delta robot built around hobby servos and an arduino. I have the kinematics succesfully coded and it works fine. I'm interested in improving the quality of the machine, improving speed, accuracy and trajectory control). I'd like to replace the hobby servos with stepper motors of maybe dc motors with encoders (or other better option?) and
[10:21:37] <Sub-> the arduino with a pc and linuxcnc
[10:22:09] <Sub-> what do i need in terms of hardeware, to sit between my linuxcnc pc, and the stepper motors/dc motors?
[10:22:39] <Sub-> i know how to connect them to an arduino, i have I/O pins, but how do i interface the delta robot hardware to a pc?
[10:22:49] <Sub-> (sorry for long question)
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[10:26:32] <Sub-> parallel port?
[10:30:41] <r00t4rd3d> Im guessing here but probably a parallel breakout board hooked to the arduino
[10:31:49] <Sub-> right, so parallel into the pc hardware, to breakout board to arduino
[10:32:13] <Sub-> thx, i'll google around that
[10:32:40] <Sub-> i thought i might be able to dispense with the arduino and have the pc do it's work though
[10:32:55] <r00t4rd3d> then figure out how to get the arduino to work with linuxcnc
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[10:34:39] <r00t4rd3d> http://ckcnc.wordpress.com/2010/11/20/arduino-emc-integration-how-it-works/
[10:35:29] <Sub-> oh that looks interesting, thank you r00t4rd3d
[10:35:33] <Sub-> *reads*
[10:36:17] <r00t4rd3d> :) it was the first link in google for "arduino+emc2"
[10:36:33] <Sub-> i didn't realise i needed to keep the arduino
[10:36:37] <Sub-> or id have googled it
[10:36:41] <r00t4rd3d> you probably dont
[10:36:53] <r00t4rd3d> but you will need some kind of controller
[10:37:03] <Sub-> i thought (im new at this) that the emc2/linuxcnc and pc reaplaced the arduino
[10:37:29] <r00t4rd3d> nope, there is always a controller of some sort
[10:37:40] <Sub-> yeah, thats what i thought, bin the arduino but osme new hardware to drive the actuators, I just wasn't clear at all on what hardware that might be, hence difficult for me to google it
[10:37:41] <r00t4rd3d> pc = controller = motors
[10:38:13] <r00t4rd3d> cnc controller would be a good search term
[10:38:31] <r00t4rd3d> but gecko and the tb6560 are the ones many people use
[10:38:40] <r00t4rd3d> i personally use a tb6560
[10:38:54] <r00t4rd3d> have you seen the grbl sheild for the arduino?
[10:38:57] <Sub-> gecko and tb6560, right, thx *googles*
[10:39:11] <Sub-> nope… will look that up too :)
[10:40:35] <r00t4rd3d> https://www.synthetos.com/webstore/index.php/assembled-electronics/grblshield-grbl-arduino-diy-cnc-shield.html
[10:41:56] <Sub-> thx
[10:43:04] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-Axis-CNC-Engraving-Machines-Stepper-Motor-TB6560-Driver-Board-Controller-3-5A-/180832754485?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a1a78db35
[10:43:27] <r00t4rd3d> that would replace your arduino
[10:43:29] <Sub-> ooh, that loks interesting
[10:43:38] <r00t4rd3d> interesting as is cheap
[10:43:54] <Sub-> well, that, plus replacing arduino
[10:44:29] <Sub-> and that has a parallel interface to the pc, which runs linuxcnc, yes?
[10:44:37] <r00t4rd3d> yeah
[10:45:03] <Sub-> and my stepper wire connections etc i just screw the wires into the screw terminals
[10:45:14] <r00t4rd3d> or you can manually control it with a ps2 controller and no pc
[10:45:36] <r00t4rd3d> they come with wire connectors
[10:46:16] <Sub-> oooh, yes, i see connections for limit stops, and there are the three steppers… :)
[10:46:24] <Sub-> me understandey!
[10:46:36] <r00t4rd3d> it dont come with that stuff
[10:46:42] <r00t4rd3d> just shows as example
[10:46:54] <Sub-> right, so i need to buy thos ebits, and break out my soldering iron
[10:47:06] <r00t4rd3d> no soldering
[10:47:29] <r00t4rd3d> slow down arduino boy
[10:47:29] <Sub-> oh, yeah, you mean i need to buy limit switches and steppers, yeah, i understand that
[10:47:38] <Sub-> i just meant i could see the connections etc in the diagram
[10:48:40] <r00t4rd3d> only thing you need to solder by choice is stepper motor leads
[10:48:52] <r00t4rd3d> extensions
[10:51:06] <r00t4rd3d> the tb6560 is considered the el-cheapo route to a cnc controller though. Lots of people have had great luck with them, lots of people have thrown them in the trash.
[10:52:04] <r00t4rd3d> if you can afford a gecko controller, get one of those.
[10:52:08] <Sub-> okay, can i clarify my understanding of the tb6560 set up with you please… i have my pc running linuxcnc, use a pci card to give me a parallel port from the pc, which i connect to the parallel port on the tb6560. To the tb6560 i have screw terminals to connect my 3 stepper motors, and connector for limit switches. So i then configure linuxcnc to drive my set up directly.
[10:52:21] <Sub-> i can afford more, money isn't a problem
[10:52:42] <r00t4rd3d> your theory is right
[10:52:54] <Sub-> i'd like the best and most user friendly set up i can get. I'm happy to spend more if it will buy me an easier route into leanring about this stuff
[10:53:26] <Sub-> i'll look up a gecko now
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[10:56:56] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Gecko-Drive-G540-4-axis-3-5A-24V-or-36-or-48V-power-supply-/290743557197?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43b1aa9c4d
[10:57:05] <r00t4rd3d> something like that is top of the line for DIY
[10:57:58] <r00t4rd3d> im not sure how that price compares either but i know they are expensive
[10:58:27] <Sub-> thx very much
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[11:08:18] <jthornton> Sub-, look at Mesa 5i25 7i76 for a stepper setup
[11:08:34] <Sub-> roger, googling now
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[11:08:52] <jthornton> mesanet.com
[11:09:17] <Sub-> btw, im not married to a stepper set up, i'll gladly go with dc motors with encoders or other setup if something else is considered a better way in
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[11:09:35] <jthornton> what kind of machine is it?
[11:09:45] <Sub-> delta robot
[11:09:54] <Sub-> so not cnc, but v similar needs
[11:10:25] <Sub-> this sort of this (this one isn' tmine): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jt_VsDzH6TI
[11:12:25] <Sub-> i have the kinematics stuffi need to get linuxcnc to drive the robot to x,y,z coordinates, then i need a few extra pins to monitor a vacuum sensor, and open/close a colenoid valve (for the vacuum pneaumatics)
[11:14:07] <jthornton> 7I76 is designed for interfacing up to 5 Axis of step &dir step motor or servo motor drives and also provides a spindle encoder interface, isolated analog spindle speed control and 48 isolated I/O points for general purpose field I/O use.
[11:15:20] <jthornton> 7I76-5I25 Plug-N-Go kit 5I25+7I76+IEEE1284 cable 6 ft. $199
[11:15:32] <jthornton> I use that on my plama table
[11:15:50] <Sub-> hmm, i think some of this stuff may be too cnc specific for my needs, given that i don't have the experience to easily mod it
[11:16:16] <jthornton> what would you have to mod?
[11:19:01] <Sub-> well, i think the three axis steppers would be fine, i build in the delta robot kinematics to linuxcnc and that will work well. Then i need to switch an off/on signal as my toolhead gets to specific locations, which i guess i can link to the cutter type control so should work fine, but then i also need to poll a vacuum sensor at several points, before allowing the robot to move to next location. I'm not clear in my head how I'd do that bi
[11:19:02] <Sub-> with this stuff
[11:19:37] <jthornton> the 7i76 has plenty of I/O to handle that
[11:20:23] <jthornton> linuxcnc has digital I/O from G code
[11:21:26] <jthornton> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode/m-code.html#_m62_to_m65_output_control_a_id_sec_m62_m65_a
[11:21:27] <Sub-> it will basically be: move to xzy, turn on vacuum, move to xyz (suction grabs marble), poll vacuum sensor to check object grabbed, move to xyz, turn off suction (drop marble), poll vacuum sensor to ensure vac is gone (object dropped), move to next xyz, repeat etc
[11:22:31] <Sub-> okay, looks good
[11:22:32] <jthornton> use the digital I/O in G code to turn on your vacuum and check your sensor
[11:22:58] <Sub-> i didn't even know g code had that kind of capability, heh
[11:23:18] <Sub-> so far ive just been doing that with C++ type arduino code
[11:24:02] <Sub-> checking i/o pins with if, else, if type statements
[11:24:52] <jthornton> the Mesa 5i25 / 7i76 + Gecko 203V drives if you need the power or Mesa 5i25 + Gecko 540 if you can use lower power
[11:25:06] <jthornton> those are O codes
[11:25:19] <jthornton> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode/o-code.html
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[11:25:47] <jthornton> http://gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/tutorial/gen02.html
[11:25:56] <jthornton> http://gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/tutorial/gen03.html
[11:26:18] <Sub-> i think lower power will be fine, im not moving much mass and happy with relatively low acceleration, and im not doing any cutting
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[11:27:00] <Sub-> these look great, ty jthornton
[11:27:13] <Sub-> so much to read! (bookmarking like crazy)
[11:27:21] <jthornton> your welcome
[11:28:44] <jthornton> the Mesa 5i25 $80 the Gecko G540 $300 and you have up to 4 axis of drives just add steppers
[11:29:38] <jthornton> you don't have near the I/O with the G540 but it don't sound like you need much
[11:30:02] <jdh> still have the other port on the 5i25
[11:30:14] <jthornton> yea
[11:33:23] <jthornton> I still like the G251 drive for a <50volt supply
[11:33:45] <Sub-> max i/o and drive stuff i need is: 3 axis steppers, 3 limit switches would be real nice to calibrate them, one digital pin for high./low signal to control vacuum solenoid valve, then two more for vacuum present and vacuum not present sensor pins
[11:35:25] <jthornton> another option is to use the parallel port and you have up to 5 inputs
[11:36:07] <jthornton> 3 steppers take up 6 of the outputs so that leaves you 6 outputs for general use
[11:36:16] <Sub-> nods
[11:36:38] <jthornton> in Linuxncnc you can home each axis with the same input
[11:36:47] <Sub-> ah, okay, got ya
[11:36:58] <Sub-> connect all three limits into same pin
[11:37:05] <jthornton> yea
[11:37:13] <Sub-> you know which one is giving signal coz thats the axis you moving
[11:37:24] <jthornton> yea
[11:37:33] <jthornton> you have to home one axis at a time
[11:37:39] <Sub-> nods again
[11:38:01] <jthornton> that can be set up in your ini file to home them in the sequence you desire
[11:39:42] <Sub-> heh, talking to you guys im now quite interesting in building a cnc
[11:40:13] <jthornton> I still like the 5i25/7i76 combo with either G203v or G251 drives as being easy to install and lots of options
[11:40:53] <Sub-> the g203/g251 are stepper motors?
[11:41:21] <jthornton> stepper motor drives
[11:41:32] <Sub-> okay
[11:41:40] <Sub-> yeah, you did say, one higher power than the other
[11:41:52] <Sub-> sorry, too many new parts for me to keep track of :)
[11:42:01] <jthornton> there is a place that sells the gecko less than the gecko site let me see if I can find it
[11:42:28] <Sub-> this guy seems decent: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Geckodrive-G540-4-axis-REV-8-latest-version-with-the-recent-mods-/290743048635?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43b1a2d9bb
[11:42:32] <Sub-> i dont know how prices compare
[11:43:14] <jthornton> price looks good
[11:43:18] <Sub-> he's not listing the g203v or g251 though
[11:43:30] <jthornton> 100% positive feedback is good
[11:43:44] <Sub-> yeah
[11:43:47] <Sub-> looks v relaible
[11:44:22] <jthornton> the g540 is kind of a pain you have to solder all the wires to the db connector
[11:44:40] <Sub-> im fine with soldering
[11:44:55] <jthornton> I prefer the G251 (same drive in the bare) with screw terminals
[11:45:01] <Sub-> ah
[11:49:10] <Sub-> ah, i see what you mean… reading, it looks like the g251 is just bundled into the g540, to give a neat all in one packeg
[11:49:37] <jthornton> yes, but that limits your I/O
[11:49:44] <Sub-> hmm
[11:49:49] <jthornton> I found the web site http://www.kelinginc.net/
[11:50:16] <Tuipveus> is there any starter-kits which I could simply use to build home automation like legos? :)
[11:50:17] <jthornton> and killed all the spammers on the forum from last night :-)
[11:50:45] <jthornton> home automation?
[11:51:06] <cylly2> moin + brb, windows-update-reboot
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[11:51:29] <Tuipveus> I would like to run some small motors and put some switches
[11:51:32] <jthornton> Sub-, you can get power supplies from that link too
[11:51:37] <Tuipveus> maybe some lights
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[11:52:01] <Sub-> Tuipveus: if you want easist and cheapest way to drive some motors, leds, switches and other stuff, you want an arduino
[11:52:38] <Sub-> that will let you play and experiment cheaply (just couple it with somehting like the adafruit motordriver shield)
[11:52:48] <jthornton> there is a system that piggy backs a signal on the mains to control home stuff iirc X10
[11:53:20] <Tuipveus> I just bought Raspberry pi... but I am not sure if it is usable
[11:53:31] <jthornton> Sub-, http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/gecko-drivers
[11:53:34] <Sub-> rasp pi is a bit limited in I/O atm, i think
[11:53:50] <Tuipveus> not sure if it is possible to build rt-kernel for it... and GPIO seems electrically complicate for me
[11:54:39] <Tuipveus> if there would be some extension-board OR if I would be able to control ethercat-modules with it, that would be option
[11:54:46] <Sub-> this link looks good, thx jthornton
[11:55:03] <jthornton> your welcome
[11:56:18] <jthornton> that is the new web site for Keling
[11:56:26] <Sub-> ok
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[11:57:24] <Sub-> site is a little slow, they need to put an extra hamster in the wheel
[11:57:32] <jthornton> another thing I like about the G251 is it comes with a heat sink all ready mounted
[11:57:36] <jthornton> LOL
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[11:58:15] <Sub-> yeah, im liking this g251 idea. As a standalone bit of kit, it will be more adaptable for me. I can easily use it with other projects
[11:58:31] <jthornton> yea
[11:58:46] <Sub-> looks like i could just connect it straight to my arduino for fun for example. just give it some power and a stepper and away we go
[11:58:55] <jthornton> yep
[11:59:20] <jthornton> all you need to send it is step and direction inputs
[11:59:31] <Sub-> which i know how to do
[11:59:36] <jthornton> 3.3 and 5v compatible
[11:59:42] <Sub-> i like knowing how to do stuff, it gives me confidence :D
[11:59:56] <jthornton> yes I am the same way
[12:00:02] <Sub-> i come from a mechanical background, so all this electrical and electronic stuff is v new to me
[12:00:20] <Sub-> lot of fun of ocurse, but im still very shaky on a lot of it
[12:00:36] <jthornton> I struggle with the electronics too
[12:00:54] <jthornton> I can't even get a 555 blinky light to work
[12:01:09] <Sub-> i dont even know what a 555 light is :/
[12:01:18] <jthornton> I think I hooked it up backwards and blew out the chip
[12:01:27] <jthornton> 555 is a timer chip thingy
[12:01:40] <Sub-> oh, i been blowing loads of stuff up, mainly h bridge chips
[12:02:12] <jthornton> I was going to use it to pulse a stepper drive to turn a paddle for a cooking pot lol
[12:02:17] <Sub-> i been ripping apart old broken printers, and robbing the dc motors, steppers and encoders out of them, then firing them up with the arduino, and blowing up the driver chips :D
[12:02:22] <Sub-> good learning experience
[12:02:42] <Sub-> lol, lol, how lazy do you have to be to want an auto stirring pot
[12:02:48] <jthornton> I tried that too with floppy drive steppers
[12:03:37] <jthornton> it is for candy where you have to stir it constantly at a slow speed
[12:03:57] <jthornton> this frees you to monitor the temperature of the candy
[12:04:06] <Sub-> ah, i see
[12:04:31] <jthornton> for a friend that makes the best Carmel you ever ate
[12:04:56] <Sub-> i think i need to test that for myself, send me a couple of pounds
[12:05:42] <jthornton> never seems to be any left
[12:06:06] <Sub-> common problem
[12:06:13] <jthornton> brb, second cup of coffee time
[12:06:18] <Sub-> nod
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[12:38:50] <Loetmichel> hmmm
[12:39:20] <Loetmichel> coffee is a good idea, but first i should change from the morning gown to a more decent clothing ;-)
[12:40:03] <JT-Shop> tmi
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[13:10:23] <elmo40> what's wrong with morning gowns?
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[13:17:08] <Loetmichel> elmo40: not really safe when milling...
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[13:20:00] <JT-Shop> LOL
[13:20:58] <JT-Shop> neither are sandals when welding
[13:22:51] <JT-Shop> I finally found a wall wort with the correct numbers on it :-)
[13:23:00] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Are those OSHA Approved steel toed sandals?
[13:24:57] <JT-Shop> are you saying I have steel toes?
[13:25:26] <Jymmm> not at all
[13:27:23] <elmo40> I have steel toe Croc's ;)
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[13:32:33] <JT-Shop> here is a perfect one 12vdc 1000mA
[13:41:53] <JT-Shop> it even works so that is a bonus!
[13:43:56] * JT-Shop checks todays schedule and so far the only thing on it is a nap
[13:44:18] <JT-Shop> andypugh, did you get the linuxcnc livecd loaded on the yellow box?
[13:44:23] <Tom_itx> are bare 7i43 pins active high or active low by default?
[13:44:32] <andypugh> Yes and no
[13:45:02] <JT-Shop> interesting
[13:45:31] <andypugh> I boots from both Lucid and Hardy LiveCDs, but the Lucid one is very skow, and the Hardy one can't see the Compact Flash card to install itself.
[13:45:58] <andypugh> But it was getting very early (like, 5am) and I lost interest
[13:46:18] <JT-Shop> yes at 5am I'm just getting up
[13:46:25] <Tom_itx> heh
[13:46:33] <Tom_itx> you a late riser?
[13:47:03] <JT-Shop> me?
[13:47:15] <Tom_itx> my body alarm goes off at 3am
[13:47:39] <Tom_itx> i just didnt listen to it today
[13:48:08] <JT-Shop> my bladder alarm goes off at 3am
[13:48:20] <Tom_itx> tried moving those io pins last night and never did get them working
[13:48:40] <Tom_itx> was why i asked about active hi lo
[13:48:57] <Tom_itx> i need to look at the config in the daylight
[13:49:22] <JT-Shop> the only thing I know about a 7i43 is I don't know anything about it
[13:50:24] <Tom_itx> unless i just flat got the wrong pins assigned
[13:51:35] <Tom_itx> moving io 10 12 and 14 off it so i can use that as an encoder on the 7i47
[13:51:42] <andypugh> Tom_itx: Aren't they clearly labelled on the 7i47?
[13:51:57] <Tom_itx> and putting them on the 2nd 7i43 connector
[13:52:20] <Tom_itx> io 35 36 and 37
[13:52:30] <Tom_itx> andypugh yes i had the right wires
[13:53:11] <Tom_itx> i'm pretty sure they were because the pendant quit working when i unhooked em
[13:53:15] <andypugh> You can connect IO direct to the 7i43. I have done it. You might have to setp the pins as inputs. There might eb thigns to do with jumpers too. It was a long time ago when I set up my 7i43 machine.
[13:53:35] <Tom_itx> i already have my limits on it
[13:53:44] <andypugh> And they work?
[13:53:53] <Tom_itx> i may have forgotten a software step along the way last night
[13:53:55] <Tom_itx> yes they work
[13:54:07] <andypugh> My feeling is that they have weak pull-ups, to grounding them sends a signal.
[13:54:26] <Tom_itx> i'll see what i did on the limits
[13:55:01] <Tom_itx> most everything i have has an in_not behind it
[13:55:35] <andypugh> Yes, you need is_output as 0, and then in-not goes high when the pin is grounded.
[13:55:56] <Tom_itx> i probably missed the first step on that then
[13:56:27] <Tom_itx> i was trying search and replace on those pins last night and only found one instance of each
[13:58:10] <Tom_itx> i would assume the 2 boards share a common ground
[13:58:20] <Tom_itx> since half the ribbon is ground
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[14:19:28] <pcw_home> all of our FPGA pins are active low (so inputs have pullups to guarantee that they are inactive at power up if driving outputs)
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[14:22:07] <pcw_home> The 7I43 enables built in pre-config FPGA pullups, and all 7I43 configs have pullups on all GPIO
[14:22:09] <pcw_home> most of the other cards have 3.3K pullup resistors on the I/O pins
[14:22:56] <Jymmm> pcw_home: Maybe I'm confusing somethign here, but wouldn't active low change the state of the pin(s) from the powered off state to the powered on/initializing state?
[14:23:24] <pcw_home> Nope
[14:23:47] <Jymmm> Ok, no power, pin is LOW.
[14:23:54] <Jymmm> Powered on, pin goes HIGH
[14:24:06] <Jymmm> state has changed
[14:24:20] <Jymmm> no? yes? maybe?
[14:24:24] <pcw_home> it just means that if you switch external devices they need to be referenced to "high"
[14:24:59] <pcw_home> (which is standard for things like OPTOs so active low makes the most sense)
[14:25:06] <Jymmm> do you see what I'm saying though?
[14:26:06] <pcw_home> yes but theres a hidden assumption in what you are saying
[14:26:27] <Jymmm> pcw_home: Ok, so if the OPTOs are powered up BEFORE the PC is, wouldn't that make the optos input active?
[14:26:40] <pcw_home> (that external loads are referenced to ground not V+)
[14:27:29] <Jymmm> So GND is switched typically is what your saying?
[14:27:53] <Tom_itx> i think i just need to reverse the logic on these or something
[14:28:13] <Jymmm> pcw_home: Just trying to understand is all =)
[14:28:32] <pcw_home> Yes, OPTOs typically work this way from the TTL/DTL days when outputs could sink more than they source
[14:29:34] <Jymmm> pcw_home: Ewww, me no like. I usually wire things with common ground, mainly due to the fact that if something ever shorted out, it has some place to go.
[14:29:40] <r00t4rd3d> http://i.imgur.com/awqBA.jpg
[14:29:56] <pcw_home> And its still true with parallel ports (they will mostly all sink 15-20 mA) but often only source a few mA
[14:30:44] <Jymmm> pcw_home: I understand the reasoning behind it, doesn't mean I have to like it though =)
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[14:31:53] <Jymmm> pcw_home: So when you buy an OPTO pcb, it's typically NOT common grund?
[14:31:54] <pcw_home> So since we are compatible with things like OPTO22 racks we really have no choice but to be active low at the interface level
[14:33:43] <pcw_home> Now externally we like active high (so a grounded pin does not turn on an output and a grounded input does not look "OK")
[14:34:43] <Jymmm> pcw_home: Oh, I get it (now), Just would have thought OPTOs are common GND, not common HIGH.
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[14:35:52] <pcw_home> Nope (and one good example of a common low input, the Gecko 540 charge pump) causes lots of trouble
[14:36:37] <Jymmm> heh
[14:38:00] <pcw_home> thats the one that requires you to set the port into EPP mode to have enough drive on the pin they chose to drive it (16)
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[14:41:20] <pcw_home> I do think most of this comes originally from TTL/DTLs high sink, low source current specs
[14:41:52] <andypugh> So, I have this PC. It has Ubuntu installed. I don't know the root password. Suggestions?
[14:42:06] <Jymmm> Yeah, just if it isn't "pointed out" I can see the confusion
[14:42:12] <pcw_home> i just fixed that on mine
[14:42:36] <pcw_home> google is your friend
[14:42:39] <Jymmm> andypugh: you dont need it?
[14:42:54] <andypugh> I do to run the linuxcnc install script
[14:43:05] <Jymmm> andypugh: sudo is your friend
[14:43:09] <pcw_home> cant sudo it
[14:43:13] <pcw_home> ?
[14:43:18] <Jymmm> sudo su root
[14:43:28] <andypugh> Huh? That needs a password
[14:43:43] <Jymmm> andypugh: are you logged in?
[14:43:55] <andypugh> Sorry, I used an extra sonfusing word. I don't know _any_ password.
[14:44:05] <Jymmm> andypugh: are you logged in?
[14:44:10] <andypugh> Yes
[14:44:34] <Jymmm> then sudo su root if you MUST be root, but sudo should be fine.
[14:46:58] <andypugh> Forget root
[14:47:12] <andypugh> I don't know that administrator password.
[14:47:19] <andypugh> Or any password
[14:47:41] <andypugh> The machine auto logs in as dmp. That's the only user account.
[14:47:56] <Jymmm> and you dont know dmp's pw?
[14:48:37] <pcw_home> you boot in recovery/maintenance mode
[14:49:15] <andypugh> thanjs pcw_home, found that on Google, seems like the way to go, after my lunch :-)
[14:49:16] <Jymmm> boot from a livecd and do password recovery from there
[14:49:16] <pcw_home> mount the drive r/w
[14:49:18] <pcw_home> set the password
[14:49:20] <pcw_home> reboot
[14:49:47] <pcw_home> dont need to (at least I didn't on 12.04)
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[15:19:43] <Jymmm> Mechanically, is there some simple way to have (for example) both halves of a pair of jaws move towards the center at the same time, so they are always "centered" so to speak?
[15:20:21] <andypugh> Jymmm: Yes, see for example 3-jaw chucks
[15:20:29] <Valen> 2 steppers + EMC?
[15:20:30] <Valen> ;->
[15:20:35] <Tom_itx> yes, KURT makes such a vise
[15:20:47] <Jymmm> andypugh: does that involve a common "ring" ?
[15:20:49] <andypugh> I have designed such vices.
[15:21:05] <Tom_itx> right and left hand threads on a common shaft
[15:21:43] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: They have those at walmart, right?
[15:22:10] <andypugh> You just need a thread with left and right hand threads of the same pitch. I even found a pair of standard threads which matched the requirement (small UNC and larger UNF) By cheating on the dimensions it was even possible to assemble from one end.
[15:22:57] <jthornton> Jymmm, a parallel jaw gripper
[15:23:33] <Tom_itx> Jymmm remember when mythbusters crashed those 2 vehicles? do it that way
[15:23:39] <Tom_itx> call them for advise on it
[15:24:04] <andypugh> It has just occurred to me that I have no idea how a 3-jaw chuck works.
[15:24:06] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: with 2000ft of cable and a big ass tow truck, gotit!
[15:24:13] <Tom_itx> yup
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[15:24:19] <jthornton> a scroll in the back
[15:24:42] <Tom_itx> ok i think my buttons are tied to 5v so when pushed the pin goes high
[15:24:48] <pcw_home> My new sniglet crimper is parallel that way (but 4 jaws)
[15:24:57] <Tom_itx> i guess i'll have to take it apart to find out for sure
[15:25:07] <andypugh> jthornton: Perhaps I should be more specific. I have no idea how a 3-jaw chuck locks without chatter.
[15:25:09] <Jymmm> andypugh: heh
[15:25:29] <Tom_itx> andypugh on a helical screw
[15:25:44] <jthornton> chatter?
[15:26:06] <Jymmm> andypugh: http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2537/3782787758_c1f37d4e75.jpg
[15:26:24] <andypugh> The scroll rotates in the body. It can't rotate with zero clearance, but if there was clearance then the work would float by that clearance.
[15:26:24] <jthornton> think 3 legged stool
[15:27:08] <andypugh> OK guys, just for the moment, imagine that I am quite clever, and I know tha obvious stuff. :-)
[15:28:16] <andypugh> The jaws are radially constrained only by the scroll. So what stops them wandering by the clearance in the scroll bearings? Is there some conical face somwhere, I wonder?
[15:29:21] <JT-Shop> I've had one apart and the scroll is a snug fit IIRC
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[15:29:50] <andypugh> It is kind of obvious how they work in a broad sense the first time you swap the jaws. Which I probably did at the age of about 10. It was only a couple of years ago that I stopped looking at the numbers on the jaws and started looking at the teeth to work out which one went in first, though.
[15:30:26] <JT-Shop> perhaps the angled face of the scroll teeth push the jaws out and the scroll back
[15:31:02] * JT-Shop never uses a 3 jaw chuck
[15:31:21] <andypugh> I was wondering if the angled gear teeth play a part? You might want to force the jaws out against the T-slots too.
[15:31:34] <pcw_home> the one in the picture looks pretty parallel though
[15:31:56] <andypugh> I use one very frequently, they are very much good enough for the vast majority of jobs.
[15:33:45] <Tom_itx> ok pcw_home, my button goes to 5v so do i need to invert the logic on the input pin?
[15:34:07] <Tom_itx> in_not
[15:34:19] <Tom_itx> i think it is already actually
[15:34:34] <Tom_itx> but do i need to initialize the pin differently in that case?
[15:34:40] <pcw_home> It needs to pull the pin down
[15:34:54] <pcw_home> (if this is a bare FPGA pin)
[15:34:58] <Tom_itx> yup
[15:35:29] <Tom_itx> well shit. that just sucks. all my other buttons go to the 7i47 and are active high
[15:35:45] <Jymmm> andypugh: http://its.foxvalleytech.com/machshop2/turnmach/chuck/maintfig1.GIF
[15:36:12] <Tom_itx> guess i'll rewire this whole flippin thing now
[15:36:40] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Do you have a wiring diagram?
[15:36:59] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: No use rewiring anything if you don't.
[15:37:06] <pcw_home> Well you could make a custom 7I43 config with pulldowns instead of pullups
[15:37:30] <Tom_itx> i'll just make all the buttons active low
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[15:39:18] <andypugh> I suspect there are some cunning design features in the chuck which are not immediately obvious.
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[15:42:55] <Sub-> bbl, thx for the advice earlier today
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[15:43:58] <andypugh> So, how do I make the grub menu show up (shift key isn't working, even with a PS2 keyboard)
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[15:45:59] <JT-Shop> I suspect you are correct andypugh
[15:47:56] <andypugh> OK, tapping ESC got me the boot menu
[15:47:57] <Tom_itx> you buy the jaws in matched sets i know
[15:48:46] <Tom_itx> and they are numbered acording to the slot they fit in
[15:49:19] <Tom_itx> so they will fit the helical screw and close properly
[15:49:26] <Tom_itx> otherwise one would close before the other 2
[15:50:32] <JT-Shop> you can just look at the back of the jaw to see which slot it goes in
[15:53:46] <Tom_itx> or that
[15:56:26] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx, did you read that page I linked?
[15:56:31] <andypugh> You can tell from the back of the jaw which one goes in first. I don't actually know how much it matters if that is slot 1. (I always put the first one in slot 1, though)
[15:57:31] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop on your offset page?
[15:57:32] <Tom_itx> yes
[15:58:07] <JT-Shop> did it make any sense?
[15:58:37] <Tom_itx> yeah
[15:59:18] <Tom_itx> i didn't realize you had to set them that way though initially
[15:59:25] <JT-Shop> ok thanks for reading
[15:59:54] <Tom_itx> i still have it up in the brouser and i'll look it over closer later today
[16:00:10] <Tom_itx> gotta go 'shopping' today :(
[16:00:16] <JT-Shop> ok, I have a couple more paragraphs to go on touching off to material
[16:00:23] <Tom_itx> right
[16:00:47] <Tom_itx> there may have been some wording i would change but i can't remember what it was right now
[16:01:24] <Tom_itx> gettin ready to leave here but i'll check it later on
[16:02:26] <JT-Shop> ok thanks
[16:02:37] * JT-Shop is fixing to take a nap...
[16:02:39] <Tom_itx> while i'm rewiring buttons :)
[16:02:52] <Tom_itx> wanted to do that now but don't get to
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[16:09:40] <Jymmm> Is this any good? crap? http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/HARRIS-Medium-Duty-Nitrogen-Regulator-5KZ42
[16:10:10] <Tom_itx> does grainger sell crap?
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[16:10:26] <Jymmm> everybody sells crap
[16:10:34] <Tom_itx> i thought smith and harris were 2 top regulators
[16:11:30] <Tom_itx> just don't get one from walmart
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[16:12:32] <Jymmm> Hey, I get high quality and lows prices from walmart (parking lot fell off the truck sale)
[16:19:31] <Jymmm> but is it $220 quality crap is the question
[16:23:01] <Tom_itx> is anything worth what it costs anymore?
[16:26:48] <andypugh> Tom_itx: Advice on IRC
[16:26:59] <Tom_itx> heh
[16:27:19] <Tom_itx> but some of the best advice i've gotten was from here
[16:28:30] <Jymmm> Don't eat yellow snow!
[16:28:45] <Tom_itx> wear sunscreen
[16:28:53] <Tom_itx> i like that video
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[16:57:08] <r00t4rd3d> porn?
[17:02:39] <r00t4rd3d> Did you see the new one? 2 girls and one bucket? One of the girls is lactose intolerant.
[17:04:25] <Jymmm> r00t4rd3d: Like I told you back in June... 2012-06-12 18:39:09 Jymmm: r00t4rd3d: Here, watch some CNC pr0n http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_qHR_H_2cg
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[17:10:39] <andypugh> I don't understand the part where they appear to be circular-milling an eccentric hole. It seems like that would be easier with a non-rotating workpiece?
[17:15:09] <archivist> plenty product placement in that
[17:17:14] <andypugh> P Horn gets some very clear branding
[17:29:53] <archivist> as I get deeper into the hobbing machine, I think all the cam auto stuff may get removed, that then gives mounting holes and holes to push Z and when cnc ability yo make helical gears
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[17:40:43] <andypugh> Take photos, and put all the parts in a tupperware box, with the photos, in the base of the machine, for the chap who restores it in the year 3000 :-)
[17:43:04] <skunkworks__> heh
[17:43:13] <skunkworks__> archivist: sounds like a fun project
[17:45:55] <anonimas1> archivist: sounds like a very good plan
[17:53:50] <skunkworks__> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NilRzkLNrOM
[17:56:32] <skunkworks__> hard core
[18:00:06] <r00t4rd3d> porn?
[18:01:06] <r00t4rd3d> im gonna get a parrot and teach it to say that
[18:01:52] <r00t4rd3d> Im having a bbq today, Im getting cooked.
[18:02:46] <andypugh> Live tooling too! That's showing off.
[18:05:57] <andypugh> I am going assume that http://www.youtube.com/user/br7may == http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php/german/my-profile-usermenu-17/userprofile/brianm
[18:08:42] <jthornton> assume he is a spammer?
[18:12:22] <andypugh> No, quite the opposite.
[18:12:55] <andypugh> He is the maker of that amazing lathe that skunkworks__ just linked to
[18:13:33] <skunkworks__> cool
[18:14:09] <andypugh> I get a good feelign knowing that I helped hi get it going.
[18:16:48] <jthornton> cool
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[18:27:21] <IchGuckLive> Hi all im writing now my own cam post prozessor for use with STL and Lathe Milling
[18:28:02] <IchGuckLive> without a Y axis it might lok a liiiel wire
[18:28:47] <IchGuckLive> lets see what we will get from it with a difficult part
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[18:53:26] * Loetmichel has gotten a shipmend today... that should last a while CA-Glue-wise... -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=13424 ;-)
[19:15:15] <JT-Shop> I think ricky_a is a girl
[19:16:04] <andypugh> Surely not?
[19:16:21] <JT-Shop> lol
[19:16:52] <JT-Shop> andypugh, did you get the livecd to load on the yellow box?
[19:17:16] <andypugh> Yes, but no.
[19:17:48] <andypugh> It will boot off the 10,04 liveCD, but realtime won't work
[19:18:07] <JT-Shop> that's not good
[19:18:24] <andypugh> Schooner has one too, and is of the opinion that we will need to realtime-patch the vortex kernel.
[19:18:52] <andypugh> However, Anthony did denonstrate it working, so I am puzzled.
[19:19:49] <JT-Shop> mine is due in Monday and I have a power supply on my desk so I'll give it a whirl too
[19:19:59] <JT-Shop> he seems to be watching the thread
[19:20:06] <andypugh> I tried installing on top of the supplied Ubuntu with the script, but it won't boot from the normal rtai kernel.
[19:20:33] <JT-Shop> you used a usb drive to boot from?
[19:20:49] <andypugh> I will try the 10.04 script, but want to make a backup of the flash drive first.
[19:21:15] <JT-Shop> ok, glad you got yours before me :-)
[19:21:19] <andypugh> Yes, just using the liveCD images and the Ubuntu Startup Disk Creator
[19:22:31] <Jymmm> Is there like 2mm ID linear bearings? And do linear work (minimally) as radial too?
[19:23:17] <JT-Shop> yes and maybe
[19:23:46] <Jymmm> not spinning as much as rotation
[19:23:54] <MrSunshine> hmm, how to convert pwm to analog with a driving power to up to like 10A :P
[19:24:23] <JT-Shop> depends on the type of bearing
[19:24:45] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Am I looking at those 'C' type?
[19:25:12] <Tom_itx> ok, half done shopping. aarg
[19:25:45] <JT-Shop> Jymmm, ??
[19:26:10] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: http://www.vxb.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/kit988-1.jpg
[19:27:03] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Hmmmmmm http://img2.tradeee.com/photo/10908011/Ball_Holder_Bearing__Ball_Retainer_Bearing__Linear_Bearing.jpg
[19:27:12] <JT-Shop> no, those don't rotate
[19:27:57] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: the vbx don't or the torture chamber looking ones?
[19:28:11] <andypugh> MrSunshine: Power Op-Amp?
[19:28:13] <JT-Shop> those might
[19:28:38] <JT-Shop> dang finished the last Gurley's off
[19:29:18] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: quick, order more http://gurleysfoods.com/
[19:29:20] <andypugh> Jymmm: http://www.mahr.de/index.php?NodeID=29
[19:30:21] <Jymmm> I still say they look like a medieval torture device =)
[19:31:23] <Jymmm> ok, they do both. But phuuuuk me, at 2mm ID, I think I'm screwed
[19:31:27] <JT-Shop> I just go to Orchlens and pick up a 48oz bag every few months of salted in the shell peanuts
[19:31:48] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Heh
[19:32:01] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.wimp.com/chesspieces/
[19:32:07] <r00t4rd3d> check that lathe out
[19:32:16] <andypugh> Jymmm: I think there is a fair chance that Mahr go that small.
[19:32:28] <Jymmm> andypugh: Oh, cool!
[19:32:43] <Jymmm> andypugh: I need a rod in a rod in a rod, so I hope so
[19:33:30] <andypugh> Jymmm: http://www.mahr.de/scripts/relocateFile.php?ContentID=5112&NodeID=10450&FileID=3442&ContentDataID=34936&save=0
[19:34:03] <Jymmm> But how do those "stay in place"? If you have a 16" shaft, do you use a 3" long bearing?
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[19:35:57] <andypugh> Jymmm: They only go down to 2.5mm. Is that small enough
[19:36:16] <Jymmm> andypugh: is that ID ?
[19:36:20] <andypugh> Yes
[19:36:43] <r00t4rd3d> http://fenlaners.blogspot.com/2008/03/bow-lathe.html
[19:36:48] <r00t4rd3d> YEEHAW!
[19:36:50] * Jymmm grabs calipers
[19:36:56] <andypugh> They don't stay in place, the ball cage always moves half as far as the rod
[19:37:08] <r00t4rd3d> i got that problem too
[19:38:39] <r00t4rd3d> "and finally fix a piece of wood between the two uprights as a tool rest"
[19:39:58] <Jymmm> andypugh: 0.078" is the OD of what it needs to go on. a lil slop is okey though, mostly linear motion
[19:40:49] <Jymmm> 2.5mm might be fine
[19:42:04] <JT-Shop> http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ancient/british_prehistory/ironage_tasks_gallery_11.shtml
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[19:46:04] <andypugh> Is the concept of a pole lathe new to you guys then?
[19:46:37] <JT-Shop> seems like we knew about them before we came over here
[19:46:58] <JT-Shop> except for the chaps that were here first
[19:47:37] <JT-Shop> I first saw on on the Woodwright's Shop
[19:50:06] <JT-Shop> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPkyxvDwwz0
[19:52:40] <JT-Shop> according to my calculations the 0.125 key slot on this 0.625 shaft needs to be 0.067 deep... I hope
[19:54:19] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.damngeeky.com/2012/07/10/lego-rolls-royce-trent-1000-is-worlds-first-functional-jet-engine-modeled-from-lego-bricks/
[19:54:23] <r00t4rd3d> lego jet engine
[19:55:04] <r00t4rd3d> http://live.wsj.com/video/jet-engine-made-from-150000-lego-bricks/516BC0E5-5FA4-48C4-BC42-B2CFFA23872C.html#!516BC0E5-5FA4-48C4-BC42-B2CFFA23872C
[19:55:06] <r00t4rd3d> video
[19:56:07] <r00t4rd3d> http://i.imgur.com/e2sk6.jpg
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[20:03:01] <toner> haha what
[20:04:25] <r00t4rd3d> Burritos with a side of chitlins
[20:05:49] <JT-Shop> OH YEA! that came out very nice
[20:06:13] <r00t4rd3d> did you take a crap?
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[20:07:32] <MrSunshine> why doesnt stepper drivers use constant current sources insted of choppers?
[20:08:16] <pcw_home> a chopper is a constant current source
[20:08:21] <andypugh> Choppers make a lot less heat than linear. They _used_ to be linear.
[20:08:38] <fragalot> MrSunshine: a chopper is a digital constant current source
[20:08:46] <andypugh> Calling that jet engine "functional" seems to be rather over-stating the case
[20:08:54] <fragalot> and is a heck of a lot more efficient than an analog version
[20:09:19] <MrSunshine> yeah but a constant current source using like opamps could be driven digitaly also ? ... just a R2R network or an DAC that outputs what voltage (current) it should hold? :)
[20:09:29] <fragalot> sure, it should work
[20:09:32] <fragalot> it's just not very efficient
[20:09:48] <MrSunshine> hmm, what makes it less efficient? :)
[20:09:48] <fragalot> opamps just dissipate the excess in heat
[20:10:09] <fragalot> where-as choppers just switch it on and off efficiently and use the inductive properties of the stepper motor to keep the current nice & stable
[20:10:10] <MrSunshine> well the opamp is supposed to drive the H bridge
[20:10:22] <MrSunshine> :P
[20:10:31] <fragalot> oh you want to make a comparator based chopper driver?
[20:10:42] <pcw_home> There have been some systems that use a variable supply voltage ((a 2 phase VFD)_
[20:11:13] <MrSunshine> fragalot, just looking at what exists and what i do not find and i figure would be neat and asking questions =)
[20:11:15] <pcw_home> and smarter drives use PWM instead of chopping
[20:11:18] <fragalot> eg. measure the current via a resistor, compare the voltage ovr tht to a preset (via a potentiometer or something) and have the opamp work in comparator mode switching the H on and off?
[20:11:30] <pcw_home> Thats a chopper
[20:11:36] <fragalot> pcw_home: That's what I was going to say
[20:11:38] <fragalot> :P
[20:11:53] <MrSunshine> fragalot, no switching the H-bridge on so that the current throught it is held at a constant
[20:11:59] <MrSunshine> not fully on, not fully off :P
[20:12:09] <fragalot> MrSunshine: so dissipating heat
[20:12:11] <fragalot> all the time
[20:12:16] <MrSunshine> ahh
[20:12:24] <fragalot> if it's not fully on, nor fully off... where does the energy go?
[20:12:25] <fragalot> :)
[20:12:54] <MrSunshine> fragalot, but if you do not let more then 0.1A for example throught the H-bridge then it wouldnt have to dissipate the full say 1A that we say is the maximum current for the winding ?
[20:13:04] <andypugh> MrSunshine: The power dissipated in a device is the voltage drop over it x the current through it. Choppers are always running either at zero voltage drop or zero current. So dissipate no power. A linear device will typically be dissipating more power than the motor. Probably 10x more for a typical stepper running on 50V
[20:13:23] <pcw_home> really ancient drives just used huge power resistors
[20:14:29] <pcw_home> a line operated step drive done this way would be pretty decent performance (at least in the winter when you needed the heat)
[20:16:01] <MrSunshine> pcw_home, but if you vary the voltage only then you can never go over the steppers rated voltage can you ? (the 2 phase VFD thingie) =)
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[20:16:42] <pcw_home> you vary it in proportion to speed
[20:17:56] <pcw_home> so it may be 2V when static and 100V when spinning fast
[20:18:51] <MrSunshine> ahh
[20:20:12] <pcw_home> the PWM step drives effectively do the same thing, vary the 2 phase drive voltages such that the average current is right
[20:20:39] <r00t4rd3d> 420
[20:20:46] <MrSunshine> mm i guess theres nothing wrong with it, it works but the sound is awfull ... still got to good hearing :P
[20:20:49] * fragalot runs his 2V rated stepper motors at 24V
[20:20:51] <fragalot> works fine
[20:21:08] <pcw_home> PWM drives are virtually silent
[20:21:11] <fragalot> nor they, nor the driver warms up
[20:21:15] <MrSunshine> my drives i can hear
[20:21:17] <r00t4rd3d> i ran my 2a steppers at 3a :)
[20:21:22] <pcw_home> chopper drives hiss like a snake
[20:21:37] <MrSunshine> a faint pweeeeee
[20:22:48] <pcw_home> better PWM drives run at 50KHz or more
[20:25:25] <MrSunshine> r00t4rd3d, i run my 4A at 4.2 ..closest i could get to 4A :P
[20:27:59] <andypugh> Machining underwater would be so much more convenient for cooling.
[20:28:28] <andypugh> But I have noticed that stepper motor design amongst the dolphin community is lagging badly.
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[21:12:19] <DJ9DJ> gn8
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[22:09:15] <andypugh> JT-Shop: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vortex86
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[23:38:16] <andypugh> I am writing a high-speed serial interface for the Arduino to the Mesa UART. 1000000bps.
[23:38:43] <andypugh> Seems to eork, so far.
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[23:49:14] <Jymmm> why?
[23:49:21] <alex4nder> hey
[23:51:13] <andypugh> I am using the Arduino to excite and read back angles from Resolvers, and I decided that passing the data back on a serial link was more sensible than pretending that they were quadrature encoders.
[23:51:50] <Jymmm> andypugh: why not slip the arduino and direc to the mesa?
[23:51:53] <Jymmm> skip
[23:52:06] <andypugh> Hmm?
[23:52:40] <andypugh> How can I skip the Arduino when that is doing all the clever stuff?
[23:52:48] <Jymmm> can't the mesa be setup to do whatever you're trying to do with an ardunio?
[23:53:11] <Jymmm> classic ladder and all that
[23:53:21] <ReadError> alex4nder, you see my pcbs ?
[23:53:27] <andypugh> Well, yes. If I buy the 7i49 card (which does do exactly what the Arduino is doing)
[23:53:29] <ReadError> taigs cuts em pretty nice ;)
[23:53:55] <Jymmm> andypugh: ah
[23:54:11] <andypugh> But Mesa cards by themselves don't do analogue voltage measurment or sine-wave synthesis.
[23:54:23] <Jymmm> gotcha
[23:57:43] <alex4nder> ReadError: no, url?
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