#linuxcnc | Logs for 2012-07-02

[00:00:24] <FinboySlick> m/s and m/s²?
[00:01:14] <r00t4rd3d> i have no idea what you mean by that
[00:01:50] <ReadError> velocity is a consistent speed
[00:01:55] <ReadError> acceleration is over time
[00:02:37] <r00t4rd3d> so i raise the velocity to go faster>?
[00:03:36] <r00t4rd3d> im just going to try and double them both to 0.4 and 60.0
[00:04:39] <r00t4rd3d> or if someone just wants to tell me how to try and make it go faster...
[00:05:02] <FinboySlick> r00t4rd3d: accell will tend to strain your motors, velocity will mostly just strain your step generation.
[00:05:26] <r00t4rd3d> dont my numbers seem low though?
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[00:05:48] <FinboySlick> r00t4rd3d: Well, what are the units?
[00:05:51] <r00t4rd3d> whats your numbes?
[00:05:57] <r00t4rd3d> i have no idea
[00:07:02] <FinboySlick> Speed for my machine is around 120 inch per second, which is conservative for my setup (and faster would mean I'm not fast enough to stop the machine in time when i make one of my very frequent mistakes).
[00:07:10] <FinboySlick> inch per minute!
[00:07:17] <r00t4rd3d> oh
[00:07:40] <FinboySlick> Hehe, 120 inch per second would be pretty crazy.
[00:07:51] <r00t4rd3d> so 0.4 is half inch per minute for me?
[00:08:06] <FinboySlick> That would be very very slow.
[00:08:06] <r00t4rd3d> or im actually at 0.2
[00:08:33] <FinboySlick> Meter/second would make more sense.
[00:08:48] <r00t4rd3d> to a canadian
[00:09:25] <r00t4rd3d> cradek you around?
[00:09:27] <FinboySlick> r00t4rd3d: I mean, can you actually see your machine moving?
[00:09:36] <r00t4rd3d> yeah
[00:09:49] <FinboySlick> Because 0.2 inch per minute, you'd have to stare to really notice.
[00:09:55] <FinboySlick> It would crawl.
[00:10:07] <r00t4rd3d> im not sure that numbers means inch per minute
[00:10:17] <FinboySlick> Exactly.
[00:10:23] <FinboySlick> Figure that one out first.
[00:10:28] <ReadError> shouldnt velocity be faster than accel ?
[00:10:47] <FinboySlick> ReadError: Depends on the units.
[00:11:00] <r00t4rd3d> i have a rather large unit
[00:11:10] <ReadError> idk it just makes sense
[00:11:21] * ReadError is on some bro-theory
[00:11:34] <FinboySlick> If accel is measured in units per second squared and velocity is measured in units per minute, you'll have different numbers.
[00:11:47] <r00t4rd3d> well if a car can do 150 miles an hour and 0-60 in blank seconds
[00:12:16] <r00t4rd3d> the mph would be the velocity and the 0-60 would be the accel. so no that makes sense
[00:12:23] <FinboySlick> You could measure accell in kilometers per hour squared, but that would give you pretty low numbers.
[00:12:38] <r00t4rd3d> acceleration is how fast you can achive velocity.
[00:12:54] <r00t4rd3d> maximum velocity*
[00:12:56] <Connor> Stupid v-bits are SO tedious to use...
[00:13:02] <r00t4rd3d> i love them
[00:13:11] <FinboySlick> It's like meters per second (velocity), per second.
[00:13:15] <FinboySlick> Hence the squared.
[00:13:53] <r00t4rd3d> connor what kind of issues are you having?
[00:15:02] <Connor> Just getting everything set correctly so you get repeatable widths when engraving. I made a fixture to hold 6 dog tags. and I'm getting variations in the tags on widths.. some show the detail real good, some look like it went a little to deep.
[00:15:44] <Connor> Either the tags aren't getting into the fixture all the way.. or the tags vary in thickness. or something..
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[00:18:12] <Connor> But, they're not turning out too bad.. Good enough for what it's for..
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[00:19:20] <FinboySlick> Connor: You could probe them :)
[00:19:56] <FinboySlick> Set a z offset before each one.
[00:19:59] <Connor> That would require a tool change every 6 I did.
[00:20:12] <FinboySlick> Connor: Nah, just set the probe next to the tool.
[00:20:44] <FinboySlick> If you have an area for the tool to dive in as you probe in your gig, it would work.
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[00:39:08] <r00t4rd3d> i got so much going on now in my brains its not funny.
[00:40:45] <r00t4rd3d> the software part of cncing sucks ass.
[00:43:11] <r00t4rd3d> there needs to be an all in one.
[00:43:17] <r00t4rd3d> from design to cut.
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[00:44:08] <r00t4rd3d> and you dont need to be a qualified nasa engineer to operate,
[00:44:14] <r00t4rd3d> .
[00:44:25] <ReadError> yea that was my hardest part
[00:44:39] <ReadError> fortunately solidworks+visualmill got me straighted out ;)
[00:44:44] <ReadError> now i cut like a bau5
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[00:51:38] <r00t4rd3d> you cut like my grandmother
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[01:20:31] <FinboySlick> r00t4rd3d: I'm Canadian, my grandmother was a lumberjack.
[01:21:24] <r00t4rd3d> can i manually control my axis with a usb joystick ?
[01:21:56] <r00t4rd3d> thourgh linuxcnc
[01:22:31] <FinboySlick> r00t4rd3d: I haven't done it myself but it's supposedly relatively common, yes.
[01:22:39] <Connor> Man.. It's 90 degrees in my shop.. 100+ outside.. and my machine is running at 3000RPM and the whole head is hot to the touch. :)
[01:23:02] <r00t4rd3d> im gonna go try a joystick
[01:23:03] <Connor> Can't find my thermal gun to check the temp of the motor and head...
[01:23:21] <r00t4rd3d> stick your tongue on it
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[01:27:01] <Connor> found it! Motor is around 147F, Side of the spindle head is around 137F.
[01:27:05] <Connor> That too hot ?
[01:27:21] <Tom_itx> is it still running?
[01:27:25] <Connor> yes
[01:27:27] <Connor> :)
[01:27:30] <Tom_itx> must not be then
[01:27:35] <Connor> ROFL
[01:28:03] <Connor> I get concerned when stuff is hot to the touch.. like the head of the mill... the motor, I expect to be hot...
[01:28:25] <Tom_itx> it's a heatsink
[01:29:14] <Tom_itx> there is a point that hot is too hot
[01:29:18] <Tom_itx> that is for you to judget
[01:29:21] <Tom_itx> judge*
[01:31:01] <FinboySlick> Tom_itx: That would sound even better in yoda-speak.
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[01:50:11] <Valen> our mill used to run at ~70C
[01:50:25] <Valen> the motor wasnt that warm though
[01:54:01] <A0Sheds> stick a fan on top
[01:54:57] <A0Sheds> is there anywhere in the US today that is not over 90F?
[01:57:14] <r00t-Shed> 70
[01:57:37] <r00t-Shed> it was only in the mid 80s today
[01:57:45] <r00t-Shed> its 70 now
[01:58:55] <A0Sheds> in the NW?
[01:59:35] <r00t-Shed> ne
[02:01:39] <r00t-Shed> http://i.imgur.com/izThw.png
[02:01:59] <r00t-Shed> everytime i start linuxcnc i got that big white line there wtf is that?
[02:02:12] <r00t-Shed> i think its new, machine still runs fine though
[02:03:24] <Tom_itx> is that home?
[02:03:37] <Tom_itx> it says G92 at the end of it
[02:03:55] <r00t-Shed> yeah it says that
[02:04:29] <r00t-Shed> should i just rehome my z axis?
[02:13:26] <r00t-Shed> im trying to do a fine inlay, but my z axis is not getting enough detail, the motor and screw spin but only a touch, not enough to move the router up and down.
[02:14:19] <r00t-Shed> would increasing my microsteps help?
[02:14:45] <r00t-Shed> right now its at 1/2
[02:18:23] <r00t-Shed> Tom_itx, ReadError
[02:18:32] <r00t-Shed> tell me now jerks
[02:19:16] <ReadError> ya microstep if your stuff supports it
[02:19:18] <Tom_itx> what about backlash comp? did you bother setting that?
[02:19:44] <Valen> if the motor moves and the tool doesnt you have a problem
[02:19:45] <Tom_itx> if the screw turns and nothing moves, it's backlash
[02:21:23] <Valen> yup, see problem ;->
[02:25:21] <r00t4rd3d> my motor and screw have gears with teeth but i never set it up, just left it at 1:1
[02:25:54] <r00t4rd3d> only on my z axis though
[02:26:05] <r00t4rd3d> how important is that?
[02:26:19] <Tom_itx> that you never set it up?
[02:26:26] <Tom_itx> you should be taken out and beaten
[02:26:38] <Valen> do you understand what backlash is?
[02:26:44] <r00t4rd3d> i didnt feel like counting the teeth
[02:26:51] <r00t4rd3d> valen yeah
[02:26:52] <Valen> huh?
[02:26:58] <Tom_itx> it's rather important to get stuff set up right
[02:27:06] <Tom_itx> if you expect good results
[02:27:34] <r00t4rd3d> i just didnt know at the time
[02:29:21] <r00t4rd3d> i think they have 10 teeth apiece
[02:29:41] <r00t4rd3d> so wouldnt 1:1 be the right ratio?
[02:33:28] <r00t4rd3d> ive only begun to focus on the software side of things too
[02:35:43] <r00t-Shed> ive got my joystick installed and working too but it wont control my axis
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[02:40:25] <Tom_itx> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Using_A_Joypad_To_Move_Your_CNC_Machine
[02:40:31] <Tom_itx> note: old docs
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[02:42:13] <JT-Shop> yep hal_joystick has been depreciated from EMC 2.4
[02:42:32] <Tom_itx> wow
[02:42:45] <Tom_itx> past your bedtime
[02:42:48] <Tom_itx> ?
[02:43:07] <JT-Shop> yea, Ray is working on his cannon and he don't know when to go home
[02:43:18] <Tom_itx> heh
[02:43:36] <Tom_itx> i'm updating my docs after all this wiring changes
[02:45:15] <Valen> r00t4rd3d: if you think backlash has something to do with gear ratios you dont know what backlash is
[02:45:15] <JT-Shop> cool
[02:45:24] <JT-Shop> lol
[02:47:53] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop do you know what var holds the backlash comp value?
[02:48:18] <Tom_itx> i presume you put that in the [AXIS x] seciton of the ini
[02:48:41] <JT-Shop> I don't think backlash is in a variable
[02:49:11] <JT-Shop> yes the ini has an entry for backlashey
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[02:50:01] * JT-Shop wonders who is all the strange nicks are???
[02:50:23] <JT-Shop> or not
[02:51:06] <Tom_itx> i don't understand how the comp_file works if it's specified
[02:51:38] <Tom_itx> i know you can map errors but what the ratio is or how you tell it what the error is at a given point
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[02:52:16] <JT-Shop> you might have to read the docs to understand that
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[02:53:40] <JT-Shop> yep there it is http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/config/ini_config.html#_axis_lt_num_gt_section_a_id_sub_axis_section_a
[02:55:52] <Tom_itx> that's what i'm looking at
[02:56:22] <Tom_itx> so if you don't specify a file you just enter the BACKLASH value in each axis
[02:56:55] <Tom_itx> i assume BACKLASH is always a positive value
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[02:59:35] <Tom_itx> If backlash is added to an axis and you are using steppers the STEPGEN_MAXACCEL must be increased to 1.5 to 2 times the MAX_ACCELERATION for the axis.
[02:59:38] <Tom_itx> why is that?
[03:00:25] <Tom_itx> mine is like 10% more right now i think
[03:12:57] <alex4nder> Tom_itx: because the backlash happens almost 'instantly' before the rest of the accel.
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[03:15:37] <Tom_itx> linuxcnc keeps track of it's direction so it know's how to apply it right?
[03:15:58] <Tom_itx> i think it would likely show up more cutting a circle
[03:16:00] <alex4nder> yes
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[03:25:58] <tjb1> ReadError: any progress?
[03:26:18] * Tom_itx turns the lights out for the evening
[03:42:44] <Connor> 36 Dog tags engraved.. wowsers.. it took a while...
[03:43:27] <Connor> Something with my setup still isn't 100% correct.. takes to long.. I think the acceleration is too slow..
[03:43:40] <Valen> acceleration is always the weak point ;->
[03:43:53] <Connor> and I had to go over them a 2nd time to make them look nicer..
[03:44:17] <Connor> Also, Axis doesn't report a accurate amount of time to run a job.. :(
[03:45:43] <Tom_itx> it's got a compensation factor you can add in in the ini i believe
[03:46:09] <Tom_itx> my cad cam tries to predict run time as well but it's not that accurate
[03:46:12] <Connor> How does that work? You time a job then check to see what Axis says and fix it
[03:46:21] <Tom_itx> i suppose
[03:47:38] <Connor> I'll have to go through a PITA setup session again next time I need to engrave.. I.E. figuring out the fixture offset.. and then add a little extra for text offset.
[03:52:17] <Connor> I can understand having machines setup for specific uses.. that's for damn sure.. If I was doing this in production.. It would be something completely different.
[03:53:31] <Connor> I found this interesting.. http://www.goscribe.com/videos.php I don't think it has a spindle.. look at the videos and see if you see it spinning. They say it uses a diamond tipped bit..
[03:59:17] <FinboySlick> ALSA coding is so nasty.
[03:59:23] * FinboySlick sighs.
[04:00:11] <Connor> Okay, so, How do other people index their fixtures accurately? Edge Finders? Through holes ?
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[04:18:16] <Valen> we have a camera on outs
[04:19:07] <Valen> and for Z we use a bit of paper then jog down until you cant wiggle the paper any more
[04:23:16] <uw> pics connor?
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[04:28:44] <Connor> uw Don't have any ATM.. You looking for pics of the fixture, or the end product ?
[04:29:21] <Connor> I used the paper trick for the Z.. but.. that's only good if ALL are at the same exact height...
[04:29:45] <Connor> Camera would be nice though..
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[04:41:40] <uw> end product. just curious to see how they come out
[04:41:45] <uw> came*
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[04:50:32] <tjb1> Anyone know a trick to get oil based paints off of skin?
[04:50:41] <r00t4rd3d> gas
[04:50:46] <r00t4rd3d> dw40
[04:51:02] <r00t4rd3d> paint thiner
[04:51:10] <tjb1> I tried some poly stripper
[04:51:13] <tjb1> That stuff is nasty
[04:51:18] <r00t4rd3d> your gf spit
[04:51:25] <tjb1> It worked but burned like hell
[04:51:39] <tjb1> Gas is too expensive :P
[04:51:44] <tjb1> Women are too expensive
[04:52:14] <r00t4rd3d> dw40 works on alot of stuff too
[04:52:46] <r00t4rd3d> gets roof tar off
[04:52:58] <tjb1> dw?
[04:52:59] <tjb1> wd?
[04:53:05] <r00t4rd3d> yeah
[04:53:21] <r00t4rd3d> funny i did that twice
[04:54:21] <tjb1> Yep
[04:54:27] <tjb1> Ill give it a try tomorrow
[04:54:34] <tjb1> Got a bunch of white dots on me...
[04:54:53] <r00t4rd3d> are you black?
[04:55:38] <r00t4rd3d> blacxican?
[04:55:44] <tjb1> no
[04:55:53] <r00t4rd3d> aww
[04:58:49] <tjb1> http://www.medicalmarijuanastrains.com/killa-crip-kush/
[04:58:52] <tjb1> looool
[04:59:10] <tjb1> Dont ask how I got a marijuana site…still not sure but some funny reviews of the different ones
[05:01:51] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.sanniesshop.com/k.o-kush-f3.html
[05:02:56] <r00t4rd3d> Effect: extreme stoned
[05:03:01] <tjb1> I would expect more out of something called "Apollo 13"… - Effects: Day and night time use. Zooted but still able to get stuff done without being locked on to the couch. Good for tedious tasks or for creative inspirations. (9/10)
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[05:03:31] <r00t4rd3d> fuck that, couch lock or nothing.
[05:03:38] <r00t4rd3d> 0/10
[05:04:05] <r00t4rd3d> if i wanted to function i would not smoke pot
[05:04:40] <tjb1> Did you read the one on killa crip kush?
[05:04:55] <tjb1> I could read these all day haha
[05:04:57] <tjb1> "Effects: honestly makes you feel cripple, bad couch lock, do not attempt to leave the couch for about 2.5 to 3 hrs max. make sure you have plenty to eat and drink, before attempting to smoke this strain. not for the light of heart. straight up puts your d*ck in the dirt."
[05:05:11] <r00t4rd3d> dick in the dirt is good
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[05:07:01] <tjb1> The comments are even better...
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[05:08:54] <tjb1> And they all call it medicine
[05:13:02] <tjb1> "Effects: A+) Now I did not get to sample this strain in a large enough amount to say how it would effect me on a normal basis, but I can say TOKERS BEWARE! LOL One good hit of this and you will exploring an empty cardboard box for 3 hours!"
[05:13:09] <tjb1> Exploring an empty cardboard box...haha
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[06:50:32] <DJ9DJ> moin
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[06:58:17] <ewidance1> help
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[07:10:38] <archivist> cant help
[07:23:54] <archivist> no one can help without a question about the real problem
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[12:07:23] <Loetmichel> moin (mahlzeit!)
[12:07:59] <Loetmichel> oh sorry, i meant: mornin'(g'day)
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[12:20:21] <micges> hi
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[14:43:07] <frallzor> ahoyhoy
[14:43:30] -!- syyl [syyl!~syyl@p4FD12364.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[14:45:15] <frallzor> gotz me sheetmetal work together
[14:45:19] <frallzor> finally
[14:45:28] <JT-Shop> got photos?
[14:45:36] <frallzor> http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/783/img4113lr.jpg
[14:45:48] <jdh> nice
[14:45:56] <JT-Shop> looking good
[14:46:11] <frallzor> internals for htpc all done, now I just await my Birch for the "clothing" =)
[14:46:59] <frallzor> http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/2302/img4114lr.jpg and le back
[14:51:25] <JT-Shop> dang that looks factory
[14:52:02] <frallzor> ty I think =P
[14:52:31] <JT-Shop> yea, that was a complement
[14:52:55] <syyl> nice job :o
[14:53:12] <syyl> what equipment did you use to make it?
[14:53:48] <frallzor> Mechmate
[14:54:13] <syyl> ah, and for bending?
[14:54:25] <frallzor> pretty much 99% of the work and some bending with a brake
[14:54:25] <syyl> a press brake?
[14:54:48] <syyl> ok thank you
[14:54:49] <syyl> :)
[14:54:55] <frallzor> "regular" brake, not sure on the english term
[14:56:29] <frallzor> pretty much a tool from a "Regular Joe" store =)
[14:56:33] <frallzor> nothing fancy
[14:56:57] <syyl> but it did a good job :)
[14:57:03] <syyl> or you did :D
[14:57:23] <frallzor> hade some "fun" trying to get it to behave
[14:57:25] <frallzor> *had
[14:59:14] <frallzor> have like 5 half-complete chassis around now =P
[14:59:23] <frallzor> bad bending, bad measurement etc etc
[15:03:09] <syyl> thats standard when i do sheet metal work ;)
[15:03:35] <syyl> always order "a bit more" material than needed..
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[15:08:11] <Tuipveus> hmm... I just got ethercat "working" as explained instructions in here http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Etherlab
[15:08:28] <Tuipveus> only "working", because I dont have any ethercat-device to test with
[15:09:22] <Tuipveus> is here someone who can explain that how much I can test without real hardware (ethercat-module)?
[15:09:51] <Tuipveus> I would like to be sure, before buying expencive hardware
[15:11:18] <cradek> do you currently have drives that require this?
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[15:20:10] <Tuipveus> cradek: nope
[15:21:13] <Tuipveus> well, it is not that expencive... but wasting even 200 euros for something that does not work, is both waste of money and time
[15:22:31] <frallzor> hmm painting plastic, just sand and paint?
[15:25:46] <cradek> what is your long term goal here? are you retrofitting a machine?
[15:26:41] <Tuipveus> cradek: actually two different goals... my first goal was to learn how can I control devices with linux and fieldbus
[15:27:03] <roycroft> folks - is this a reasonable drive for a linuxcnc machine:
[15:27:05] <roycroft> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227510
[15:27:12] <Tuipveus> cradek: secondary goal (which is not clear at all) is that maybe my company could use this kind of communication to speed things up
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[15:28:23] <roycroft> frallzor: scotchbrite pads are fine for most plastics
[15:28:36] <Tuipveus> cradek: nowadays communication between linux-database and plc (-put your brand here-) takes a lot of time (because software) and lot of time from developers, because they have different communication-software for different plc's.
[15:29:14] <roycroft> and if the plastic is unknown, test the paint in an inconspicuous place first to see if the solvent in the paint softens the plastic too much
[15:30:16] <cradek> ok, if you were working on controlling a machine I might have advice for you (which would not involve ethercat) but for these goals I'm not going to have helpful advice
[15:32:26] <Tuipveus> cradek: I am also intrested of other possibilities, since something with plain ethernet (non-realtime) might be easier to implement (goal 1)
[15:33:25] <Tuipveus> now those systems (database, robots, plc's) talk to each other mainly with ethernet
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[15:40:34] <IchGuckLive> Hi all
[15:41:47] <IchGuckLive> from Blender Game modeller to CNC -> http://mechmo.de/bild-simba.jpg
[15:46:20] <roycroft> well, i just ordered a logic board and memory for the linuxcnc machine
[15:46:33] <roycroft> i decided to hold off on that ssd, as i read some bad reviews of it
[15:46:39] <IchGuckLive> roycroft: D525
[15:46:42] <roycroft> i'm sure i have an old sata drive laying around that i can use for testing
[15:46:47] <roycroft> d525?
[15:46:56] <roycroft> h
[15:46:57] <IchGuckLive> the mini ATX is the best
[15:46:59] <roycroft> oh, yes
[15:47:03] <roycroft> that's what i ordered
[15:47:18] <roycroft> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813121442
[15:47:27] <roycroft> with 4GB of crucial memory
[15:47:34] <Connor> frallzor: That looks nice.. What sort of PSU is in that? Have any pictures of the inside ?
[15:49:25] <roycroft> now with that machine, i should be able to talk to a gecko g540 using the onboard parallel port, right?
[15:49:36] <roycroft> (with a bob in between for optical isolation)
[15:50:07] <jdh> isn't teh 540 isolated?
[15:50:48] <roycroft> is it?
[15:50:49] * roycroft checks
[15:50:49] <IchGuckLive> roycroft: yes
[15:50:54] <Loetmichel> re @ home
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[15:52:57] <roycroft> groovy
[15:53:27] <IchGuckLive> what is the price for the G540
[15:54:53] <jdh> $239
[15:55:35] <IchGuckLive> whow thats way mutch more then 4 leadshine %42
[15:55:37] <roycroft> where is it $239?
[15:55:50] * roycroft has been seeing it at $299, and likes $239 a whole lot better
[15:55:53] <jdh> keling
[15:56:38] <jdh> http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/gecko-drivers
[15:56:38] <roycroft> ooh
[15:56:40] <roycroft> that is great
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[16:01:04] <roycroft> thanks, jdh - that saves me some much-needed cash
[16:02:32] <IchGuckLive> i dont like this sub9D connectors
[16:02:46] <IchGuckLive> real 3.5 Fasten thats what it has to be
[16:03:06] <jdh> what is that?
[16:03:54] <IchGuckLive> standart wire clamps as on the other geckos
[16:04:11] <Connor> http://www.futurlec.com/XLR-MIC.shtml
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[16:04:21] <Connor> I like those for chassis to chassis connections..
[16:04:33] <IchGuckLive> automotion has the M542 as a $042 for 59.95
[16:04:36] <Connor> But, takes 4 weeks to get them in from that place.. :)
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[16:05:16] <IchGuckLive> XLR is not the first go for NEUTRIX Sound connectors
[16:05:24] <Connor> Anyone know what Amperage those kinds are rated for ?
[16:05:30] <jdh> connor: wow, they are cheap though.
[16:05:34] <IchGuckLive> Cheeper and 30A to deliver at 4 Pins
[16:05:59] <IchGuckLive> Connor: sound is normaly at 100mA but they will hold 5A shoure
[16:06:00] <Connor> IchGuckLive: is not the first go for NEUTRIX ??
[16:06:06] <jdh> I ordered somethign from them a few years ago, took forever
[16:07:13] <IchGuckLive> Connor: google picture Neutrix or Speekon
[16:07:30] <Loetmichel> IchGuckLive: Neutrik IS xlr
[16:07:40] <roycroft> neutrik connectors look like xlr
[16:07:41] <Loetmichel> or do you mean speacon?
[16:07:49] <roycroft> what's the difference? current-handling capability?
[16:08:18] <IchGuckLive> i use NP4
[16:08:30] <Loetmichel> IchGuckLive: 3 and 4 pin xlr will hold up to 20A, 5 and 7 pin will hold 3A
[16:08:37] <IchGuckLive> nice to fit as all real screw and clamp
[16:08:52] <IchGuckLive> Loetmichel: agree
[16:08:57] <Loetmichel> neutrik xlr that is
[16:09:24] <IchGuckLive> http://www.electronicsnmore.com/index.php?manufacturers_id=65
[16:09:28] <Connor> Those aren't exactly XLR are they? XLR's have some other means of attachment vs threaded nut..
[16:09:35] <Loetmichel> as a former stage hand i have soldered my share of neutrik xlr in all forms and sizes ;-)
[16:10:02] <Loetmichel> that is speacon/powercon
[16:10:06] <Loetmichel> thats another deal
[16:10:10] <IchGuckLive> Loetmichel: Agree also on that as if been stagehand also 5Years
[16:10:23] <IchGuckLive> Powercon has only 3 pins
[16:10:39] <Loetmichel> <- 10 years leader of the electronics workshop in a Stage rental company ;-)
[16:10:48] <IchGuckLive> NP-4 is the best for me i use them on all mashines
[16:11:21] <Loetmichel> np4 is sthe standard Speacon
[16:11:24] <jdh> http://www.futurlec.com/XLR-4Pin.shtml
[16:11:34] <Loetmichel> so: 4 pins 20A each IIRC
[16:11:34] <jdh> those are real xlr, much smaller pins
[16:11:44] <Loetmichel> and rated for 230V
[16:12:09] <Connor> Yea. The ones I linked are common in CB Radios..
[16:12:17] <Loetmichel> jdh: that may be xlr, but shitty ones
[16:12:27] <Loetmichel> look for neutrik xlr... MUCH better
[16:12:46] <jdh> I'll stick with the mic connectors.
[16:13:05] <Loetmichel> besides that a 5 pin neutrik xlr can topple a 500 puound dimmer rack... by tripping over the cable ;-)
[16:13:07] <IchGuckLive> Loetmichel: at reichelt nice cheep
[16:13:26] <Loetmichel> IchGuckLive: cheap. and no, reichelt is expensive
[16:13:33] <IchGuckLive> Lo you checkt this O.O
[16:13:53] <IchGuckLive> Loetmichel: wher to get this
[16:14:12] <Connor> jdh: Yup.. Me too... and they look GREAT on those stepper covers! :)
[16:14:47] <jdh> still only have two of mine on. It has been 100F+ for days and no fun out there.
[16:14:50] <Connor> I'm still a little miffed I didn't any credit from Hoss for his "inspiration"
[16:14:50] <Loetmichel> mercator or direct from neutrik... had ordered them in 100pcs-box batches
[16:15:08] <jdh> how big is giant?
[16:15:12] <jdh> <urk>
[16:15:13] <Connor> jdh: 105F Saturday and Sunday
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[16:15:48] <jdh> miserable in my garage
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[16:16:20] <Connor> My shop was up to 90F yesterday.. and I have a AC vent in it. but, no return.. I need to figure out how to get it cooler in there..
[16:16:40] <Connor> engraving all those tags. man.. Spindle was @ 137F, motor was around 147F
[16:18:36] <Loetmichel> Connor: swamp cooler?
[16:21:27] <Connor> Na. Either need to put a fan up high away from the vent to push the hot air out.. or, just install a window/wall unit..
[16:21:34] <Connor> I have one.. but, it's HUGE..
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[16:21:43] <Connor> but, might be better to have one over rated for the shop...
[16:22:00] <jthornton> swamp coolers only work in the desert or low humidity areas
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[16:22:14] <IchGuckLive> Loetmichel: 1.8Eur the socket
[16:22:15] <Connor> Yea.. TN is very HIGH humidity.
[16:22:36] <IchGuckLive> someone in the usa effected by the storms
[16:22:42] <jthornton> so is SEMO usually, so lots of insulation is the key
[16:22:49] <jthornton> what storm?
[16:23:12] <Connor> Well, The heat wave, the Fire storms, or the thunder storms.. take your pick.
[16:23:23] <IchGuckLive> est cost thunderstorms 3Mio out of power at 110F#
[16:23:37] <Loetmichel> jthornton: they work in high humidity areas, too, but less efficient
[16:23:45] <Loetmichel> unless ist 100%rH
[16:24:01] <jdh> it only feels like 100%
[16:24:04] <IchGuckLive> is there a CNC in Manaos Amazonas ?
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[16:24:26] <IchGuckLive> well this is the best place to kil the electronicas
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[16:25:30] <JT-Shop> ok, I'm in the heat wave
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[16:25:56] <IchGuckLive> we cooled down today by half the temps of suturday
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[16:26:12] <JT-Shop> less effective too
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[16:29:45] <Connor> Someone ban him or somethign ?
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[16:30:40] <roycroft> that would be nice
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[16:31:07] <roycroft> a nick ban would be most appopriate, so the user can rejoin after fixing the problem
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[16:34:51] <TekniQue> *shrug* /ignore works for me
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[16:49:07] <roycroft> so, understanding the inherent inaccuracies of acme screws, especially those that are used on low-end imported machines, if money is tight for me, would it be reasonable to scrape the ways on my mill to eliminate as much friction as possible, and then work on minimising backlash on the acme screws, as opposed to finding the money for ball screws?
[16:49:14] <roycroft> at least for now
[16:49:46] <roycroft> keeping in mind that i'll be milling pcbs (not super-high-density, and with no surface-mount components)
[16:52:01] <IchGuckLive> pcb is good on Trapezional lw cost leadscrews
[16:52:43] <cradek> pcb milling takes virtually no cutting force, but really needs zero backlash
[16:52:48] <IchGuckLive> roycroft: therfore you do not need also a Gecko go for the ZEN at 40USD it will give you a price cut 200USD
[16:52:51] <cradek> so get or make anti-backlash nuts
[16:53:09] <roycroft> so to further expound on my plans
[16:53:16] <roycroft> i was originally going to build a cnc router for milling the pcbs
[16:53:16] <cradek> arrange two nuts with a spring between them, or some of the springed plastic nuts
[16:53:31] <roycroft> but then i decided to convert my x3 clone so that i could use it for other things
[16:53:32] <IchGuckLive> the TR screws have a 0.05mm backlash i dont care at 0.5mm PCB routing
[16:53:36] <roycroft> the primary goal is to do the pcbs
[16:53:41] <cradek> inaccuracy of the screw (pitch variation, a bit of wear) doesn't matter a bit for pcbs
[16:53:44] <roycroft> but i'll do some general-purpose milling as well
[16:53:56] <roycroft> i know about eliminating backlash
[16:54:20] <IchGuckLive> http://mechmo.de/lothar/cnc_4.JPG this is only for PCB decined at lowest cost
[16:54:48] <roycroft> as far as scraping the ways, i figured that since the acme screws would require a lot more torque to move than ball screws, eliminating as much friction on the ways as possible would help compensate for that, thus letting me use somewhat smaller stepper motors
[16:55:20] <cradek> I've used nuts from dumpstercnc.com
[16:55:25] <IchGuckLive> roycroft: you are in the USA
[16:55:27] <cradek> they work fine
[16:55:39] <roycroft> and i would not expect this to be a high-precision milling machine, certainly without ball screws
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[16:56:13] <roycroft> the x3 is such low mass (mine is ~275kg or so, including the stand i have it bolted firmly to) that i would never expect it to be high-precision
[16:57:50] <roycroft> my ultimate goal is to get a bridgeport-type mill that i can convert to cnc, once i am generating revenue with the little x3
[16:57:58] <roycroft> and continue to use the x3 for pcb prototypes
[16:58:27] <roycroft> that is going to take a while, as there's a new $40k shop building that is a prerequisite to getting the knee mill
[16:58:40] <roycroft> so even a used $1.5k bridgeport is going to cost me $41.5k
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[17:00:04] <IchGuckLive> roycroft: arend ther fast prototypers for 20USD 1 standard size pcb ready made in the USA
[17:00:37] <roycroft> turn-around time for outsourced prototypes is unacceptable for me
[17:01:00] <IchGuckLive> here in germany you can send board data and you have the pcb ready in 3-5Days
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[17:01:34] <IchGuckLive> ok roycroft you need to know
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[17:01:53] <IchGuckLive> so your Mill size prefered woudt be
[17:02:28] <IchGuckLive> if you go into standard lengthness you can save also lots of money
[17:02:33] <roycroft> the inexpensive ones are more like 3 weeks here
[17:02:47] <IchGuckLive> lead pins in 10inch ...
[17:05:42] <joe9> anyone running linuxcnc on a x86_64 bit install?
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[17:18:43] <roycroft> *whew*
[17:18:46] <roycroft> billing done
[17:18:50] <roycroft> now i can get on with my month
[17:19:34] <roycroft> ichgucklive: some of the outfits here in the states will take your pcb design and lay out for optimal space utilization
[17:19:47] <roycroft> they will also drill-perf the boards for you if you want
[17:20:13] <roycroft> the reason for the wait is that the discount places make one huge pcb at a time, and sometimes it takes a while for them to get enough little jobs to fill up the big pcb
[17:20:45] <roycroft> so if i order 4 prototype pcbs, they'll lay them out in a corner or chunk of the big pcb, and cut out my four as one unit
[17:23:05] <IchGuckLive> also here
[17:23:58] <IchGuckLive> i got a factory nearby with the big 4sqfoot pcb mashines they only mak parts at 1000pices
[17:24:35] <IchGuckLive> weeks with no order but no way to put only one shite of pcb onto it
[17:24:57] <IchGuckLive> it is so easy for them to do but no way
[17:25:53] <IchGuckLive> it is so boaring if got access to a facility like that but cand profite from it
[17:26:32] <roycroft> well this is why i want to be able to make my own pcbs for prototyping
[17:26:40] <IchGuckLive> roycroft: why arend you just going for a ready made china mill plug and play
[17:26:55] <IchGuckLive> low cost no work
[17:27:04] <roycroft> because i already have an x3 mill, and i've always wanted to do a cnc conversion
[17:27:07] <IchGuckLive> maybe a zen 3030
[17:27:19] <IchGuckLive> ah OK B)
[17:27:39] <IchGuckLive> then i woudt not do a G540 on a X3
[17:27:39] <roycroft> actually, i built a shumatech dro-550 for it, but had all sorts of issues with the capacitive scales that i bought for it
[17:27:52] <jdh> got a secondary spindle for doing pcb's on the x3?
[17:28:00] <roycroft> i was looking at getting proper glass scales, but by the time i invest in those i'm already close to the cost of a cnc conversino
[17:28:03] <roycroft> i don't have it yet, jdh
[17:28:07] <roycroft> that will be the last component
[17:28:35] <roycroft> i figure i can cnc the mill and use it for general-purpose milling, while i learn the software and more about the cnc world
[17:28:42] <roycroft> and then add a high speed spindle
[17:28:56] <roycroft> why not the g540, ichgucklive?
[17:29:03] <IchGuckLive> the MY1020 with 1-5 gear gives you 20k RPM
[17:29:32] * roycroft almost bought a zen, btw, until he figured that converting the x3 would be more flexible
[17:29:53] <IchGuckLive> this is to compact i woudt go for seperate components
[17:30:02] <jdh> the two uses don't have much overlap\
[17:30:23] <roycroft> i also have a foredom flex-shaft tool that might work for pcb milling
[17:30:42] <roycroft> it's their high-torque (not needed for pcbs, i know) dc model
[17:30:47] <IchGuckLive> roycroft: and go for 3Mn steppers 8-wire
[17:30:54] <IchGuckLive> Nm
[17:31:27] <IchGuckLive> your X3 will love it and you will be impressed
[17:32:07] <IchGuckLive> Nema23 ofcause
[17:32:36] <IchGuckLive> here they are at 40Euros
[17:33:10] <IchGuckLive> ok as im not in the USA i shoudt not answer your needs
[17:33:35] <roycroft> 15,000 rpm with the handpiece that i have, but i can get a speed-doubling handpiece that will go up to 30,000 rpm
[17:33:57] <IchGuckLive> thats good for a V-shape
[17:34:18] <IchGuckLive> i get 15m of cutting out of one tool
[17:34:24] <roycroft> ichgucklive: i have a little 19" rack cabinet on wheels that will house the computer, power supply, controller, etc. for the mill
[17:34:54] <IchGuckLive> you can fit akll into a ATX case
[17:35:08] <IchGuckLive> 4axis
[17:35:10] <roycroft> but i have this rack cabinet
[17:35:26] <roycroft> i'm going to use it for the touch screen and control panel anyway
[17:35:31] <IchGuckLive> also 12/5V power
[17:35:37] <roycroft> so i'm not worried at all about space
[17:35:40] <IchGuckLive> 48 for the steppers
[17:35:43] <jdh> i am.
[17:36:02] <roycroft> my thought is that if i build other cnc devices i can use the same control cabinet for all of them at first
[17:36:19] <roycroft> just unplug the cables to the mill and move the cabinet to the next tool
[17:36:33] <roycroft> i could cnc my plasma cutter and lathe eventually
[17:36:34] <IchGuckLive> you mast know
[17:37:09] <IchGuckLive> lasma needs more power as the tool force is high to carry
[17:37:25] <jdh> I was thinking of doing that with my router and mill.
[17:37:31] <IchGuckLive> at least 8Nm at 8Amps per Phase better 12
[17:37:38] <roycroft> i have about 15u to work with
[17:37:42] <jdh> I really just need a db25 a/b switch for that.
[17:38:00] <roycroft> i could easily add more hardware to the rack that is machine-specific
[17:38:03] <IchGuckLive> C10 is the best in the USA
[17:38:05] <roycroft> keep the one computer to run everything
[17:38:21] <roycroft> when i move it to another machine i just swap some cables in the back
[17:38:25] <IchGuckLive> agree on that roycroft
[17:38:41] <roycroft> i'm not sure that i'll ever do that
[17:38:46] <roycroft> but my point is, i have the rack space to do it
[17:38:48] <IchGuckLive> but as i got many mashines not practical you soon move to more
[17:38:57] <roycroft> and i want to keep everything seperate just in case i want to do that
[17:39:09] <roycroft> it's called bootstrapping :)
[17:39:24] <IchGuckLive> Bootcamp O.O
[17:39:27] <roycroft> once i cnc the other machines and they're generating more revenue i'll be able to afford a control computer for each
[17:39:38] <roycroft> i already have three touch screens, for example
[17:40:01] <roycroft> anyway, back to the spindle
[17:40:02] <IchGuckLive> you only need 3 Buttons
[17:40:06] <roycroft> i don't know if the foredom would work well or not
[17:40:11] <IchGuckLive> Rwad green Blue
[17:40:12] <roycroft> but tir is really low on those
[17:40:17] <IchGuckLive> Red
[17:40:18] <roycroft> and i think the speed is fine
[17:40:27] <IchGuckLive> Yellow as a option
[17:40:29] <roycroft> it will take collets, so i won't have to use a chuck
[17:40:41] <roycroft> i want four buttons
[17:40:44] <IchGuckLive> ER11 is the best
[17:40:48] <roycroft> red green yellow and black
[17:40:59] <roycroft> it will be a rasta-controller
[17:41:02] <IchGuckLive> Black ß
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[17:42:53] <IchGuckLive> for what you expect the black
[17:43:09] <roycroft> or maybe schwartz-rot-gold
[17:43:16] <IchGuckLive> Red Mashine on -> Green Run -> Yellow airblow
[17:44:12] <roycroft> red should be the panic button
[17:44:26] <IchGuckLive> as it is mashine on
[17:44:38] <roycroft> yeah, if it's one of those twisty ones
[17:44:47] <IchGuckLive> panic button is direct G540 Brekof
[17:45:24] <IchGuckLive> i got some issues where the linuxcnc is of the mashine runs and no button is regonised at all
[17:45:48] <IchGuckLive> mastrpower on all 26 Education mashines
[17:46:19] <IchGuckLive> with Remote Control so at all laces in the classroom available
[17:48:08] <IchGuckLive> And badly needed in the first lessons
[17:48:40] <roycroft> so your objection to the g540 for my mill is just the physical size of it?
[17:51:30] * roycroft is going to have a key switch for master power on, btw, as there are occasionally young children roaming around the shop
[17:52:20] <IchGuckLive> it is the way that on Gecko2x or leadshine you yust replace the Driver and you are up to big steppers and gecko is lost
[17:52:41] <IchGuckLive> all the wirering is the same for the standard driver stages
[17:52:51] <IchGuckLive> on Gecko 540 it is not
[17:53:20] <IchGuckLive> roycroft: see the photo and think only pull the green plugs and replace the driver
[17:54:29] <IchGuckLive> from M542A to 568 to 806 and so on
[17:54:42] <IchGuckLive> so you are flexed in all places
[17:55:13] <IchGuckLive> at all axis in all Voltiga and Amps
[17:55:40] <IchGuckLive> the controller will always be the same just the stage and the steppers are different
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[17:56:06] <IchGuckLive> DIP switch controlled downwards compatible
[17:56:52] <jdh> nice idea, but not likely you would ever need to do that.
[17:57:21] <jdh> I dislike having everything in one box where one failure pretty much makes everything inoperative.
[17:57:28] <IchGuckLive> i got it that way
[17:57:59] <IchGuckLive> jdh: thats why im using 4 stages M542
[17:58:24] <IchGuckLive> if one fails pull the plug and move to another at low price
[17:58:45] <jdh> that is a good reason.
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[17:59:05] <jdh> what's the 542?
[17:59:06] <roycroft> what picture?
[17:59:11] <roycroft> did i miss something?
[17:59:29] <jdh> amp/volts embedded in part number?
[18:00:32] <jdh> M542 is a keling kl-5042?
[18:00:40] <jdh> or the other way around I suppose.
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[18:00:45] <IchGuckLive> roycroft: http://mechmo.de/elek5_2012.jpg
[18:00:55] <IchGuckLive> jdh: yes
[18:01:20] <IchGuckLive> its leadshine dot com USA
[18:01:35] <IchGuckLive> the same as Gecko 203X
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[18:03:34] <IchGuckLive> the plugs are 1inch Neutrix NL-4mp
[18:03:40] <andypugh> Was Mach4 meant to be launched this last weekend?
[18:04:01] <jdh> real soon now.
[18:04:37] <andypugh> Wonder what they plan on adding?
[18:06:24] <IchGuckLive> pk im off By nice conversation to you all as always
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[18:10:21] <jthornton> linux support?
[18:11:48] <skunkworks__> sounds like it is a total re-write...
[18:13:29] <jdh> hasn't it been in the works for many years?
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[18:28:12] <andypugh> Yes, ages.
[18:30:09] <skunkworks__> I think the cncfest in ann arbor was a sneak peak at it. Sound like feed hold works... ;)
[18:33:19] <skunkworks__> now
[18:33:58] <FinboySlick> A2Sheds: You seen these? http://www.thinkgeek.com/electronics/portable-audio-video/eb43/
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[18:49:45] <tjb1> http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/s480x480/314758_3997993104207_1727553987_n.jpg
[18:49:49] <tjb1> They have arrived!
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[18:54:49] <roycroft> outstanding
[18:54:55] <roycroft> newegg shipped my system board and memory already
[18:55:01] <roycroft> i should have the gear by week's end
[18:55:24] * jdh hands tjb1 some RoundUp(tm)
[18:55:47] <tjb1> You would need more than roundup
[18:57:48] <tjb1> I didnt realize how heavy the extrusions would be
[18:58:25] <FinboySlick> tjb1: Heh, for a moment I thought they were linear rails... And wondered just how big you planned to make that router.
[18:58:53] <tjb1> Its a plasma/router
[18:59:07] <FinboySlick> 4x8?
[18:59:14] <tjb1> Yep
[18:59:25] <tjb1> http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/473995_3985189344121_308481399_o.jpg
[19:00:04] <tjb1> Yes the water table is tilted in that picture :P
[19:02:27] <jdh> I thought it was a mold for a boat hull
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[19:23:17] <A2Sheds> FinboySlick, 15 lumens
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[19:24:37] <FinboySlick> A2Sheds: And the resolution isn't very good... But it has me wondering if they couldn't be ganged up (assuming the good bits are small enough).
[19:25:52] <A2Sheds> FinboySlick, not much light
[19:26:33] <A2Sheds> you'd need a resin sensitive enough to trigger , yet not too sensitive so that you'd need to work in a darkroom
[19:27:36] <FinboySlick> I see. Still, laser projection seems to be the hot new things, maybe more powerful things will start becoming cheap now.
[19:28:02] <FinboySlick> Hehe RED has a 4K 55k Lumen one.
[19:28:14] <FinboySlick> But that's not what I'd call cheap.
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[19:30:00] <A2Sheds> once the printers are made in China the prices will drop
[19:30:42] <Connor> tjb1: Why is it tilted? and why are the ribs curved ?
[19:34:32] <MrSunshine> yey got a order for two castings today =)
[19:34:37] <MrSunshine> me like =)
[19:41:59] <tjb1> Its tilted to drain water, the slats are curved to limit damage from straight line cuts
[19:42:31] <Connor> How is something suppose to set on it square ? :)
[19:43:13] <Connor> I've seen some setups using spikes every so many inches...
[19:43:20] <tjb1> Sit on it square
[19:43:23] <tjb1> The top is flat?
[19:43:48] <Connor> Looks like they bow down..
[19:44:20] <tjb1> They dont
[19:44:28] <tjb1> They arc from left to right
[19:44:31] <tjb1> The top is completely flat
[19:45:01] <Connor> Drawing makes it look as if it's bowing in the middle downward.. strange..
[19:45:47] <tjb1> optical illusion :)
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[19:48:22] <tjb1> Those extrusions put this thing into perspective…and damn is it gonna be big
[19:51:13] <A2Sheds> whats the official goverment post office in the UK? Royal Mail?
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[19:55:15] <FinboySlick> tjb1: Heh, I always have this problem when doing CAD too... It's never the same size RL ;)
[19:55:39] <tjb1> Play in CAD forever and never realize how big something is
[19:56:03] <tjb1> Ill have to put the plasma cutter on the gantry haha dont know if the cord is long enough
[19:56:18] <archivist> A2Sheds, yes
[19:56:42] <A2Sheds> thx
[19:57:25] <FinboySlick> tjb1: Last time that really happened to me though, thankfully, it was smaller than I expected.
[19:58:00] <tjb1> I was also pleasently suprised to see how heavy the extrusions are FinboySlick
[19:58:10] <tjb1> Hard to live in a world of CAD :D
[20:03:46] <tjb1> Wish I could afford to make the whole table out of extrusions, that would be eassssyyy
[20:05:30] <A2Sheds> what is the shape of the top pieces?
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[20:05:54] <A2Sheds> tjb1, are they a T ?
[20:06:08] <tjb1> What top pieces?
[20:06:22] <A2Sheds> the ones that appear to curve
[20:06:36] <tjb1> No just flat stock on its side
[20:08:48] <tjb1> Gotta go all, have a good day.
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[20:09:34] <A2Sheds> reminds me of the scene in Spinal Tap with the Stonehenge model
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[20:45:44] <andypugh> A2Sheds: Thanks for reminding me of one of the funniest things I have seen :-)
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[21:15:34] <DJ9DJ> gn8
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[22:10:29] <r00t4rd3d> i got a job for my router already :/
[22:10:50] <r00t4rd3d> wood business cards
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[22:11:35] <jdh> uh huh
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[22:12:17] <JT-Shop> andypugh: that flat motor your making are you making a drive for it too?
[22:12:18] <JT-Shop> nice
[22:12:22] <r00t4rd3d> its for my boss but i can keep track of my hours making them and get my normally hourly rate :)
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[22:13:28] <r00t4rd3d> i need to make a 3 inch tape measure graphic and convert it to gcode now
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[22:14:18] <andypugh> JT-Shop: No, I am driving it with a 7i39.
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[22:15:53] <archivist> I saw an interesting bike wheel motor today, a large diameter bldc
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[22:17:49] <r00t4rd3d> http://i.imgur.com/Axj08.jpg
[22:17:54] <r00t4rd3d> my bike wheel motor
[22:18:24] <JT-Shop> andypugh: ok, I was just wondering
[22:19:23] <andypugh> I think djdelorie might be the one to talk to about DIY drives.
[22:20:16] <JT-Shop> actually just finding a drive that will fill my needs would be cool
[22:20:51] <JT-Shop> can you control the torque with the 7i39?
[22:22:10] <andypugh> Yes, you vary the PWM duty cycle.
[22:22:31] <JT-Shop> interesting
[22:23:25] <andypugh> I don't know of many motor drives where you can't vary the torque
[22:24:22] <djdelorie> JT-Shop: what are your "needs" then?
[22:24:29] <andypugh> It might be easiest to use a brushed DC motor for your application, though.
[22:24:45] <andypugh> There are several Arduino shields you can use then.
[22:24:51] <JT-Shop> I need to be able run a motor and stall out at a preset torque
[22:24:57] <andypugh> The 7i39 needs a computer.
[22:25:31] <djdelorie> torque == current for BLDC drives, just set a max current?
[22:25:53] <djdelorie> or did you want something other than just a torque limit?
[22:26:06] <JT-Shop> I just read the 7i39 manual and you get two choices for max current
[22:26:12] <andypugh> and current == voltage for a stalled motor?
[22:26:34] <djdelorie> andypugh: depends. My board has current limiting in the PWM logic
[22:26:52] <JT-Shop> in the simplest one it is hand held with a torque arm and you just press the trigger until the torque is reached and it stops
[22:26:55] <djdelorie> so it can do a burst of high torque, but limit steady state current/torque
[22:27:42] <andypugh> JT-Shop: A strain gauge in the torque arm is the right way to do it then.
[22:28:14] <djdelorie> mount the whole motor in a torque sensor ;-)
[22:28:16] <JT-Shop> I don't think that is practical in this application
[22:28:41] <JT-Shop> I'm looking at replacing air tools that install threaded things
[22:28:53] <andypugh> You can make the stator winding mounting into a torque sensor.
[22:28:54] <micges> andypugh: 7i39 is supported by tp_pwmgen + bldc hal module?
[22:28:59] <djdelorie> you want the electrical equivalent of a clutch?
[22:29:04] <andypugh> micges: Yes
[22:29:23] <micges> thanks
[22:29:47] <JT-Shop> well a limit on torque is what I need as soon as torque is reached the operator will let go of the trigger
[22:30:14] <archivist> why not keep the mechanical torque limiter
[22:30:27] <JT-Shop> ie when it stops turning they let go of the trigger
[22:30:37] <djdelorie> perhaps brushed DC with a voltage regulator would be sufficient then
[22:30:41] <andypugh> micges: It looks like it has been for at least 2 years. http://youtu.be/47y6RgAK--8
[22:31:23] <archivist> JT-Shop, the friction clutch can stop excess torque from the mass of the rotor
[22:31:37] <JT-Shop> archivist: the current application only has a torque reactor as we call it to keep the tool from turning
[22:33:10] <A2Sheds> andypugh; ever come across turbines for poor quality steam?
[22:33:12] <JT-Shop> djdelorie: so adjust the voltage to vary the max torque the motor will have?
[22:33:12] <micges> andypugh: I missed it becouse I use only 7i40(dual dc brush driver) and 7i33 from mesa
[22:33:41] <djdelorie> JT-Shop: should work. You'd have to test the motor in situ to see how much past desired torque you go due to inertia
[22:34:12] <andypugh> A2Sheds: Sorry, no.
[22:34:26] <A2Sheds> wet steam
[22:34:26] <JT-Shop> yea, the design of the part affects that too
[22:34:30] <A2Sheds> <130psi
[22:35:12] <djdelorie> the only other solution is something computer controlled that knows how many turns each screw needs, and slows down just before it's done
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[22:35:39] <andypugh> This is that factory autoclave thing you were looking at?
[22:35:50] <JT-Shop> you can only get within one rev as you don't know when the thread actually starts
[22:36:37] <A2Sheds> andypugh, yeah, ends up 130psi is the max and then it drops pretty linear to 0psi over 2 hours, but they have 8 units staggered
[22:36:57] <JT-Shop> djdelorie: what kind of drive does the brushed DC motor need? or can you just supply it with DC voltage?
[22:37:05] <djdelorie> just DC
[22:37:14] <JT-Shop> that's simple then
[22:37:25] <djdelorie> you only need PWM if you want speed control with a fixed DC input
[22:37:29] <andypugh> A2Sheds: Have you talked to any turbine manufacturers yet?
[22:38:04] <A2Sheds> andypugh, yeah for 130psi and up, for below 130psi it looks like water turbines
[22:38:16] <andypugh> It might even be a job for a reciprocating steam engine, if anyone still makes them.
[22:38:40] <archivist> A2Sheds, I have seen a reciprocating engine used for steam pressure reduction and energy reclamation
[22:39:41] <djdelorie> JT-Shop: what you basically want is a cheap underpowered cordless screwdriver :-)
[22:39:42] <archivist> there is a couple of Bellis and Morcom engines at a salt factory in Cheshire
[22:39:50] <JT-Shop> so with an Ardunio and some bits I might be able to set the RPM via PWM?
[22:39:57] <A2Sheds> archivist, right now they just release 50M BTU/hr of steam into the air, they want to reclaim and reduce pressure and temp to 70F to dump into a 2 acre pond
[22:39:59] <JT-Shop> djdelorie: yes!
[22:40:06] <Connor> jdh: Got some TTS stuff in today.
[22:40:27] <A2Sheds> 50M btu/hr x 8 units
[22:40:49] <A2Sheds> so it's quite a waste of energy now
[22:40:51] <archivist> loads, worth doing
[22:42:05] <A2Sheds> http://www.micro-hydro-power.com/Micro-Hydro-Turbine-Power-Dual-Nozzle-XJ38-30SCTF4_6-Z.htm
[22:42:41] <archivist> A2Sheds, are they not heating the feedwater with it too?
[22:43:04] <A2Sheds> archivist: nothing with it currently
[22:43:51] <archivist> just a heat exchanger to the feedwater will make a huge difference
[22:44:00] <A2Sheds> each autoclave is 8' dia and 180' long
[22:44:19] <andypugh> archivist: My impression is that the water is a waste product, though it would seem to make sense to pre-heat the intake air.
[22:44:48] <A2Sheds> they make some concrete product
[22:45:14] <A2Sheds> the steam is pretty clean except for 0.01% ethanol
[22:45:31] <andypugh> A counterflow heat-exchanger seems like one good option
[22:46:03] <andypugh> A2Sheds: What goes into the autoclave? Hot dry air?
[22:46:07] <A2Sheds> yeah, was also trying to get some electricity back out of it
[22:46:29] <archivist> are they just drying the concrete items?
[22:46:41] <A2Sheds> they actually pump steam in
[22:46:47] <andypugh> I am a bit puzzled, though, as concrete normally doesn't need any help to cure.
[22:47:14] <djdelorie> cure time depends on temperature?
[22:47:16] <archivist> heat may speed it up or change the strength
[22:47:34] <A2Sheds> it a fibrous cement product
[22:47:41] <archivist> why not wait a bit longer and save money
[22:47:53] <A2Sheds> 52K gallons
[22:48:28] <andypugh> djdelorie: It would normally be cheaper to have more product curing slowly than to pay 50Mbtu for faster curing though.
[22:49:07] <djdelorie> IIRC they ran cold water through the concrete at the Hoover Dam to make sure it didn't crack as it cured
[22:49:22] <andypugh> Aye, normally the slower the better.
[22:49:25] <A2Sheds> IIRC a fiber cement siding
[22:49:44] <jdh> Connor: the lathe stuff or for the mill?
[22:49:50] <Connor> Mill.
[22:49:57] <jdh> what did you get?
[22:50:04] <archivist> cement manufacture itself needs heat I know
[22:50:06] <andypugh> You certainly want to ensure there is adequate water available in the mix for the hyrdation reaction.
[22:50:11] <A2Sheds> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiber_cement_siding
[22:50:53] <Connor> Got the short R8 3/4" Collet. Two 3/8" Set Screw Tool holders, One 1/2" Set Screw Tool Holder, and a J33 Arbor (for TTS)
[22:51:02] <A2Sheds> still no stirling engines
[22:51:37] <jdh> cool
[22:51:46] <djdelorie> my house has fiber cement siding...
[22:51:52] <Connor> That'll give me 1/4", 3/8" and 1/2" and 1 drill bit on quick change.
[22:52:58] <jdh> from LMS?
[22:53:05] <A2Sheds> they are even happy to just get it to condense in a finned pipe and then dump to a 3 acre pond
[22:53:13] <Connor> I need to get a ER20 or ER16 TTS Tool holder.. and some smaller sized collets..
[22:53:16] <Connor> jdh: Yea
[22:54:25] <A2Sheds> so probably heat exchanger then turbine generator to take the last bit of energy out, then pond
[22:55:01] <archivist> turbine then condenser
[22:55:20] <archivist> so turbine works into a vacuum
[22:56:02] <A2Sheds> yes about 3" mercury
[22:56:10] <archivist> get a turbine from an old coal fired power station and the condenser
[22:56:30] <archivist> just feed into the second section
[22:56:41] <archivist> the LP turbine
[22:57:17] <A2Sheds> not many here for LP, but water turbines are everywhere
[22:58:26] <archivist> we get 25" vacuum on our engine
[22:59:50] <archivist> may be worth drying the steam for the turbine with some reheat
[23:00:13] <andypugh> Buy all of these, they might add up to a MW http://www.prestonservices.co.uk/generators.html
[23:00:56] <A2Sheds> those turbines are not great at low pressure
[23:01:17] <A2Sheds> I found lots of 10-50MW power stations
[23:01:45] <archivist> 14653553. wats
[23:01:47] <archivist> watts
[23:02:17] <A2Sheds> yes, the turbines are about 30% efficient
[23:03:11] <A2Sheds> the generators themselves are >90%, somebody should make a more efficient turbine
[23:04:42] <archivist> blame thermodynamics not the turbine
[23:04:44] <A2Sheds> the steam plants are designed for 200-500psi
[23:05:47] <A2Sheds> http://www.utilitywarehouse.com/info1/steamturbinegenerator.html#11MW
[23:06:04] <archivist> andypugh, the top one of that page is similar to the cheshire sets
[23:07:39] <andypugh> A2Sheds: Reciprocating engines use to run on 130psi or so. And at lower pressure they just run lower power.
[23:07:44] <archivist> A2Sheds, often those turbines have an HP and an LP section, they may well work ok LP only
[23:08:47] <archivist> better stations reheated between hp and lp
[23:09:50] <A2Sheds> steam engine to drive an AC compressor in summer, steam heat in winter
[23:10:41] <A2Sheds> they looked at a cooling tower, it would take 2000A 480VAC to balance it
[23:11:40] <A2Sheds> I could propose a giant radiator and 50 ft fan and they would go with it over the cooling tower
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[23:20:35] <archivist> just looking at one of my old catalogues, English Electric were making turbines as low as 150 psi
[23:20:55] <A2Sheds> trying to find a vendor in the US
[23:21:51] <archivist> they did one for a colliery at 80psi
[23:22:33] <archivist> only a megawatt and the year was 1924
[23:23:29] <A2Sheds> 80 years ago I could pick up the phone and have one here by next year
[23:24:01] <FinboySlick> A2Sheds: Hehe, feed current into a windmill, you'll have your giant fan ;)
[23:24:24] <A2Sheds> http://www.aircleantech.com/boilers/power-generation/show/Reciprocating%20Steam%20Engine%20Generators
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[23:29:29] <andypugh> They look like a good cmpany to talk to.
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[23:39:16] <archivist> A2Sheds, on http://www.utilitywarehouse.com/info1/ see GE Turbine No. 72539 Double Auto Extraction nearly low enough to try
[23:42:48] <A2Sheds> I emailed and called 3 of the guys with most of the listings with not one call or email reply
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[23:43:08] <A2Sheds> they answer their phone just as "hello"
[23:43:10] <JT-Shop> this looks promising http://www.bldcmotor.org/products/type.php?tID=468&cID=184
[23:46:15] <A2Sheds> http://www.forestbusinessnetwork.com/listings/category/239/Machinery/listings/331/Steam-engine-and-electric-generator-system-for-sale-Hall,-MT.html
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[23:47:19] <A2Sheds> http://industrialgeneratorr.blogspot.com/2011/11/skinner-steam-engine-electricity.html video
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[23:51:29] <A2Sheds> hmm or possibly open the world largest hot tub next door
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[23:58:44] <JT-Shop> add some mud and it is a health spa
[23:59:16] <JT-Shop> I'm building a steam engine but I fear it is a bit small to be of any use to you...