#linuxcnc | Logs for 2012-06-25

[00:00:39] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: I was sking you earlier about shrink wrap as I don't have one of those high speed rotary type cutters and need loking for a way to cut 6in pieces of shrink film. the only thing I found that works great is a rotary blade like they use for cutting fabric, just wondering if there are any alternatives in a production environment you might be aware of
[00:02:14] <FinboySlick> Jymmm: Laser!
[00:02:41] <Jymmm> FinboySlick: It's pvc shrink film, cna't use a laser on it.
[00:02:56] <FinboySlick> waterjet!
[00:03:10] <Jymmm> lol
[00:03:26] <Jymmm> FinboySlick: I was thinkinf somethign under $300
[00:03:48] <FinboySlick> pressure washer waterjet!
[00:04:22] <Jymmm> FinboySlick: Sold! Just show me the video of it working and I'll send you a check!
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[00:05:47] <JT-Shop> Jymmm: I've made stretch wrap machines befoe and we just ripped it off when done wrapping
[00:06:00] <JT-Shop> I've not worked on any retail packaging machines
[00:06:17] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Ah, gotcha. I thought you might have.
[00:06:40] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: you probably should, it's a frickin market out there for shit!
[00:06:55] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: especially that overwrap stuff.
[00:06:59] <JT-Shop> too busy making assembly machines
[00:07:22] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: assembling what typically?
[00:07:42] <JT-Shop> lawn mower engines on final assembly lines
[00:07:49] <Jymmm> ah, ok.
[00:08:35] <JT-Shop> I can't wait to see how much they want for this http://www.amot.com/tenants/amot/documents/Datasheet_2800_Safety_Shutdown_Device_0911_Rev2.pdf
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[00:09:05] <JT-Shop> the trip lever is broken on the generator... want too much and I'll make a new one from 4140
[00:10:11] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Well, there's not "Not for life support systems" disclaimer at the bottom of the PDF, so you actually might be safe at under three digits
[00:10:44] <JT-Shop> if it is over $200 I'll just make a new part...
[00:10:44] <Jymmm> Thought the dimentional diagram might jack up the price a bit.
[00:11:02] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Might be serviceable though
[00:11:42] <JT-Shop> the trip lever inside is broken, I've got it apart and await the price to see how I will procede
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[00:15:36] <Tom_itx> trip lever for what?
[00:15:56] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: http://www.mckenziecorp.com/amot_safety_valve.htm
[00:16:49] <Tom_itx> ok i could look but does anyone know if there's a jumper on the 7i47 for power to come from the ribbon vs the provided plug and does it really matter which one you use?
[00:17:02] <jdh> w2 I think.
[00:17:18] <Tom_itx> does it matter that much where the power sources from?
[00:17:23] <Tom_itx> it's not under heavy load
[00:17:30] <Tom_itx> or i would use external
[00:18:17] <Tom_itx> trying to get this silly thing rewired
[00:18:18] <jdh> it's W1
[00:18:27] <andypugh> W1 to the left according to the manual.
[00:18:43] <andypugh> <curmudgeon> Which you could have read </curmudgeon>
[00:18:44] <Tom_itx> right now it's set for ribbon power
[00:18:52] <jdh> This mode can be used for testing but it is
[00:18:52] <jdh> suggested that W1 be placed in the right hand position and I/O power be supplied via P1
[00:18:53] <jdh> for most applications.
[00:18:53] <Tom_itx> :)
[00:19:01] <Tom_itx> i know i'm having a lazy moment
[00:19:13] <Tom_itx> and the book is buried under wire, tools and connectors
[00:19:24] <jdh> mine is an icon
[00:19:37] <andypugh> I just google them when I want them
[00:19:54] <Tom_itx> i'll probably switch it over to P1 power
[00:20:03] <Tom_itx> same for the 7i43
[00:20:13] <jdh> I have a dual 5/12vdc PS in my enclosure
[00:20:13] <Tom_itx> it was usb powered up until now
[00:20:15] <andypugh> The naming scheme is confusing, but at least they are mainly the only google hit
[00:20:28] <andypugh> Anyway, time to sleep
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[00:20:56] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/cnc/psu/control2.jpg
[00:21:10] <Tom_itx> if you look close you can see my 5v smps beside the mesa cards
[00:21:17] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: In your state http://www.midwestcontrolproducts.com/
[00:21:23] <Tom_itx> those were just set in there for placement.
[00:21:28] <Tom_itx> i've mounted them since then
[00:21:42] <Tom_itx> i've got 50, 24 and 5v in there
[00:22:15] <Tom_itx> i had to use a centertap for the 5v because the smps wouldn't take 50v input
[00:25:07] <Tom_itx> ok, moving on to the stepper wiring...
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[00:35:15] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Jsut wire two stepper motors to each other same color to same color =)
[00:35:42] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: turn one by hand, the other turns too !
[00:36:39] <Jymmm> (seriously)
[00:38:47] <Tom_itx> it's called a servo
[00:39:06] <Jymmm> you said stepper
[00:39:21] <Tom_itx> what you described is a servo
[00:40:03] <Connor> No, a servo has some sort of feed back loop.
[00:40:20] <Connor> what he described was using 1 stepper as a generator.
[00:40:52] <Tom_itx> master / slave
[00:42:20] <Tom_itx> it will be a miracle if i can keep all these wires straight
[00:42:45] <Jymmm> teg em
[00:42:48] <Jymmm> tag em
[00:43:02] <Tom_itx> i got a sheet
[00:43:06] <Tom_itx> i'm not silly
[00:43:10] <Jymmm> a sheet of what?
[00:43:15] <Tom_itx> wiring chart
[00:43:19] <Tom_itx> but still...
[00:43:21] <Jymmm> so?
[00:43:27] <Jymmm> you need these http://www.bradyid.com/bradyid/scpv/Wire-and-Cable-ID~Wire-Marker-Cards.html
[00:43:36] <Jymmm> or sharpie and a roll of tape
[00:43:58] <Jymmm> like I said... tag em
[00:44:17] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/how_to/atmega168/breadboard_basic_side.jpg
[00:44:19] <Tom_itx> like that?
[00:45:04] <Jymmm> Sorta, usually a wiring diagram will mark each end of each wire too
[00:45:23] <Jymmm> easy to trace out if ever needed down the road
[00:45:24] <Tom_itx> i did but i'm changing wire
[00:45:32] <Tom_itx> and eliminating a few plugins
[00:45:57] <Jymmm> ah. Are those paper + shrink tubing
[00:46:08] <Tom_itx> labels yes
[00:46:13] <Jymmm> k
[00:46:17] <Tom_itx> paper tended to slip around a bit much
[00:46:28] <Jymmm> Yes, yes it does.
[00:46:30] <Tom_itx> labels stick to the wire so you can shrink the tube easier
[00:47:16] <Jymmm> never had the luxury of a REAL wire label printer =)
[00:47:38] <Tom_itx> nope, just my ghetto wire marking
[00:47:52] <Jymmm> At least not when *I* have to make the harnesses
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[00:48:01] <Jymmm> just the booklets
[00:48:18] <Jymmm> which work fine for what they are
[00:48:27] <Tom_itx> i found my 9 cond wire so i won't have to use that white stuff you saw
[00:49:09] <Jymmm> I'd still mark the cable, no need to trace out whch 15+ foot cable is which.
[00:49:22] <Jymmm> 6-12" from the end of it
[00:49:32] <Tom_itx> they're not that long
[00:49:34] <Jymmm> per side
[00:49:41] <Tom_itx> it's all inside the box
[00:49:57] <Jymmm> murphy's law says when you have to trace it out, you wish the tags were there
[00:50:26] <Tom_itx> now i could get my phone trunk wire.. that would have plenty of pairs
[00:50:36] <Jymmm> only 50
[00:50:46] <Tom_itx> i only need 6
[00:50:49] <Tom_itx> on this one
[00:50:53] <Tom_itx> i'll use 9
[00:51:04] <Tom_itx> but the other 3 shouldn't be needed
[00:51:10] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: what pcb will you be using for that 20pin dip?
[00:51:21] <Jymmm> err 28pin
[00:51:25] <Tom_itx> that's just for tutorial
[00:51:33] <Tom_itx> i have tqfp
[00:51:34] <Jymmm> oh
[00:51:37] <Tom_itx> of the same thing
[00:51:42] <Tom_itx> one is in my toaster oven
[00:51:58] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: is that a dedicate circuit pcb you have?
[00:52:03] <Jymmm> or generic
[00:52:08] <Tom_itx> for which?
[00:52:10] <Tom_itx> the oven?
[00:52:16] <Jymmm> the tqfp
[00:52:19] <Tom_itx> i made it for the oven
[00:52:23] <Jymmm> ah
[00:52:26] <Tom_itx> i didn't bring all the lines out
[00:53:15] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/boards/boards_index.php
[00:53:20] <Tom_itx> i've got several different boards
[00:53:25] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: I'd love to have a generic pcb sorta like ardunio, but only the very basics on it CLK, VR, Socket.
[00:53:42] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/boards/atmega128_exp_1.jpg
[00:53:47] <Tom_itx> there's a 128
[00:53:57] <Tom_itx> it's got a couple boo boos on it but it works
[00:54:08] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: program in ardunio, remove, plug in to generic PCB for dedicated usage.
[00:54:10] <Tom_itx> those were the first run
[00:54:31] <Tom_itx> i program in Tom_itx
[00:54:37] <Tom_itx> with my programmer
[00:54:39] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: the booboo bord, that's not ardunio though, right?
[00:54:50] <Tom_itx> i don't have any arduinos
[00:54:53] <Jymmm> k
[00:55:05] <Tom_itx> i need something i make it
[00:55:22] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: whers the crystal?
[00:55:28] <Jymmm> I see the freq
[00:55:42] <Tom_itx> right above c8 c9
[00:55:45] <Tom_itx> :)
[00:55:57] <Tom_itx> 16Mhz
[00:55:58] <Jymmm> Q1 ?
[00:56:03] <Tom_itx> yep
[00:56:07] <tjb1> Wow Jymmm did you say to use an arduino?
[00:56:08] <tjb1> haha
[00:56:20] <Jymmm> Q = Transistor I though
[00:56:26] <Tom_itx> oh well
[00:56:37] <Jymmm> X = Crystal I thought
[00:56:44] <Tom_itx> maybe so
[00:56:48] <Jymmm> tjb1: and your point it?
[00:57:04] <Tom_itx> Jymmm, you've seen my little programer right?
[00:57:13] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: what boo boo's does it have?
[00:57:18] <tjb1> So many people hate arduinos
[00:57:22] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: you have a few programmers I believe =)
[00:57:35] <Jymmm> tjb1: why?
[00:57:57] <Tom_itx> on the mega128 it doesn't use spi for ISP and i forgot about that
[00:58:12] <Tom_itx> i had to cut a couple traces and run some wire wrap wire
[00:58:16] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: ah
[00:58:26] <Tom_itx> and the spacing is off on a couple plugs
[00:58:39] <tjb1> Not sure Jymmm, I visit HaD often and they always bitch when something involves an arduino
[00:58:46] <Jymmm> heh, are they stuffed already?
[00:59:12] <Tom_itx> i only made a handfull as they were a first run test
[00:59:22] <Jymmm> tjb1: I can pickup an ardino locally at Frys for $25 if ever needed
[00:59:30] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: ah
[00:59:42] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/boards/atmega32_exp1.jpg
[00:59:48] <Tom_itx> i gave a few of those away
[01:00:38] <Jymmm> cool
[01:01:00] <Jymmm> not that I need that much I/O
[01:01:20] <Jymmm> could get away with 555 much of the time.
[01:01:21] <Tom_itx> what are you making with an avr?
[01:01:47] <Jymmm> simple timers , or triggered timers.
[01:02:02] <Jymmm> or sorta like your oven controller, etc
[01:03:50] <Jymmm> add a 2x16 LCD, couple of buttons, adjust on/off times, etc simple shit.
[01:04:07] <Jymmm> could easily do it with timer relays all day long.
[01:04:13] <Tom_itx> that 128 board has an lcd plug
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[01:04:52] <Tom_itx> 128's aren't quite as popular as they used to be
[01:05:13] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Saly, I'm clueless on programming them though =)
[01:05:15] <Jymmm> Sadly
[01:05:55] <Jymmm> thus the whole arduino stuff.
[01:06:06] <Tom_itx> it's really pretty easy
[01:06:21] <Tom_itx> you don't know what you've got with arduino code
[01:06:22] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Heh, if I remembered C that is =)
[01:06:38] <Tom_itx> it's just like riding a bike
[01:07:15] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/boards/atmega32u4/atmega32u4_1.jpg
[01:07:19] <Jymmm> if you do it regularlly that is.
[01:07:19] <Tom_itx> that's a handy little board
[01:07:39] <Tom_itx> i don't
[01:08:34] <Tom_itx> i keep a few spares on hadn though http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/boards/new_batch/USB_chips.jpg
[01:08:39] <Tom_itx> hand*
[01:08:42] <tjb1> I like how it takes Fedex 5 days to drive 5 hours
[01:09:17] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: heh, just one or two spares I see =)
[01:09:51] <Tom_itx> those are for my programmers
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[01:10:12] <Jymmm> ah
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[01:41:14] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: AH HA! Cheater! http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/avr/dragon/avricemkii.jpg =)
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[01:45:41] <Tom_itx> that was a clone avrice mkii
[01:45:43] <Tom_itx> i never use it
[01:46:00] <Jymmm> clone? looks like the real thing to me
[01:46:07] <Tom_itx> that was purchased before i made my little programmers
[01:46:29] <Tom_itx> nope, i got it purely to do PDI programming and when i got it, it didn't support it
[01:46:37] <Tom_itx> PDI is for the xmega chips
[01:46:42] <Jymmm> It's all good, nothing like having the "Real Thing" (tm) aorund when someone bitches =)
[01:46:43] <r00t4rd3d> http://i.imgur.com/KlXSG.jpg
[01:47:06] <Tom_itx> i do have a dragon though
[01:47:16] <Tom_itx> never use it either
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[02:13:51] <tjb1> Anyone use a G540 on a plasma setup?
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[02:36:02] <jdh> geometry isntyour strong point.
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[03:10:03] <skunkworks> how did I get along without a sawzall
[03:11:26] <ScribbleJ> I bought one on accident and haven't used it once I think.
[03:30:28] <A0Sheds> http://www.rockfordballscrew.com/pdf/rbs-catalog/pg86-87-preloaded-ballscrew.pdf anyone else make a Bridgeport kit as good for less?
[03:36:28] <Tom_itx> i've nearly worn one out
[03:38:41] <skunkworks> I never really thought it was a needed tool... But you can use it as a hatchet or a scalpel.
[03:42:22] <skunkworks> The suprising thing to me is you can cut half way through something. You would think it would kick - but with a little finess - it works very well
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[03:54:19] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: I need a tabletop version of one of these http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRov4db3zvc
[03:55:38] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/cnc/psu/control3.jpg
[03:58:35] <A0Sheds> UV cured screen press? I'd just use UV inkjet
[03:59:22] <Jymmm> in a ROUND bottle?
[03:59:26] <Jymmm> on a
[03:59:44] <A0Sheds> yes, it's just a rectangle wrapped around an axis
[03:59:52] <A0Sheds> those are easy
[03:59:53] <Jymmm> uh huh
[04:00:26] <A0Sheds> handlebars or exhaust pipers get a bit more tricky
[04:00:29] <Jymmm> show me the inkjet print head ready to go, and we'll talk
[04:00:46] <Tom_itx> it's just automated screen printing
[04:00:58] <A0Sheds> ~$100K 5 color CMYK+W
[04:00:59] <Tom_itx> even you could figure that out
[04:01:09] <Jymmm> No, just black would be fine.
[04:01:14] <Tom_itx> make a frame and rotate an axis the same rate as the frame
[04:01:32] <Jymmm> talk is cheap =)
[04:01:34] <Tom_itx> hold a squeege above it
[04:02:14] <A0Sheds> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=px5RIgjx7aY here's a dumbed down version
[04:02:24] <Jymmm> A0Sheds: But if you can show me a head ready to print on a tube, I'm all ears.
[04:02:33] <Tom_itx> Jymmm you really think that would be that tough?
[04:02:52] <Tom_itx> linuxcnc could do that easy
[04:02:56] <Tom_itx> synch 2 axis
[04:02:57] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: The automation of handling of the tubes, yes.
[04:03:12] <Tom_itx> that's where your little chinese girls come in
[04:03:13] <Tom_itx> :)
[04:03:57] <Jymmm> I'd rather have american older girls instead =)
[04:04:20] <Tom_itx> you'd likely get less production
[04:04:35] <Jymmm> I dont think I'd care at that point =)
[04:04:52] <A0Sheds> Jymmm, put your $100K in escrow, not a problem
[04:05:13] <Jymmm> A0Sheds: I'm still waiting for the video demo from you.
[04:05:41] <A0Sheds> and I'm still waiting for the $100K in escrow
[04:06:04] <Jymmm> A0Sheds: You have to have something, before you see any money
[04:06:12] <Jymmm> this aint that vaporware shit
[04:06:24] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: were those jacsks on the side already there?
[04:06:31] <FinboySlick> A0Sheds: Technically, you could log this, send him a bill and it would hold in court ;)
[04:06:42] <A0Sheds> multiaxis inkjet printers have been around for a while
[04:07:04] <A0Sheds> FinboySlick, nah Jymmm is usually full of hot air anyway
[04:07:48] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: looks nice =)
[04:08:18] <Tom_itx> even nicer when it's back up and running
[04:09:07] <Jymmm> FinboySlick: Great, so when I take A0Sheds to court for not providing a tabletop version of a tube printing machine I'll be sure to subpoena you too =)
[04:09:30] <A0Sheds> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFYNSZUntgc&feature=relmfu
[04:09:45] <FinboySlick> Jymmm: I was assuming he'd build it prior to sending you the bill.
[04:10:17] <A0Sheds> just watch the magic above, it must be magic, it can't be real
[04:10:22] <A0Sheds> my brain hurts
[04:10:23] <Jymmm> FinboySlick: And I want to see a video demo of it ding it's thing prior to escrow =)
[04:10:31] <A0Sheds> haha
[04:10:40] <Jymmm> doing
[04:11:18] <Jymmm> the issues isn't printing, it loading unloading the tubes
[04:12:20] <A0Sheds> that too hard
[04:12:46] <FinboySlick> Jymmm: What are you working on that needs that kind of printing anyway?
[04:13:06] <Jymmm> packaging
[04:13:09] <A0Sheds> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKoZcNLYSsg&feature=related
[04:13:18] <A0Sheds> also impossible ^^
[04:14:04] <A0Sheds> modified epson 1800-ish
[04:15:02] <FinboySlick> A0Sheds: You designed things like that?
[04:15:57] <FinboySlick> I always kind of hated printers but I have to admit that this stuff is cool.
[04:16:14] <A0Sheds> mostly tougher applications using robot arms for non-planar surfaces
[04:16:33] <Jymmm> Again, getting in a tube isn't the issue, isn't the loading/unloading that is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIqNGKvCqts&feature=related
[04:16:41] <A0Sheds> working mostly on 3d printers now
[04:16:47] <Jymmm> s/in/ink/
[04:17:13] <A0Sheds> must be fake
[04:17:53] <FinboySlick> A0Sheds: Right, how is that coming along, btw?
[04:17:54] <A0Sheds> robot arms and grippers can't do things like that
[04:18:14] <Jymmm> A0Sheds: Just come back when your sober, alright?
[04:19:29] <A0Sheds> sorry Jymmm, I'll run all the tech past you first for you to decide what's possible or not
[04:19:55] <A0Sheds> it must be some Chicago thing
[04:20:55] <A0Sheds> FinboySlick, lots of new designs and photopolymers
[04:21:31] <FinboySlick> A0Sheds: URL me again so I can spend the rest of my evening dreaming of possibilities?
[04:21:35] <A0Sheds> printing multilayer circuit boards with only liquids, board and traces
[04:21:53] <FinboySlick> A0Sheds: That's pretty clever.
[04:23:15] <A0Sheds> FinboySlick, the DLP printers?
[04:23:57] <FinboySlick> A0Sheds: I think so. You had a link with lots of designs and discussions.
[04:24:14] <A0Sheds> http://code.google.com/p/lemoncurry/wiki/main
[04:24:30] <FinboySlick> That's it.
[04:24:32] <A0Sheds> there are several site
[04:24:34] <A0Sheds> s
[04:25:13] <A0Sheds> this is all the easy DIY stuff
[04:25:58] <FinboySlick> Still can't believe how awesome the samples are.
[04:26:39] <A0Sheds> working on a FDM extruder that also has 4 color inkjet
[04:26:51] <FinboySlick> FDM?
[04:27:07] <A0Sheds> print with white filament but end up with 4 color process objects
[04:27:31] <A0Sheds> reprap
[04:27:40] <A0Sheds> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fused_deposition_modeling
[04:27:43] <FinboySlick> OK. So you mix in the color with the material?
[04:27:48] <A0Sheds> the molten plastic printers
[04:28:04] <A0Sheds> yes, while it's still molten
[04:28:30] <Jymmm> A0Sheds: oh, the oe where the "inkjet" adds the pigment on the fly?
[04:28:34] <Jymmm> one
[04:28:46] <FinboySlick> Pretty clever. You could put 4 nozzles orthogonal to the extrusion path and just trigger them to get the right colour.
[04:28:53] <Jymmm> saw that on discovery channel
[04:28:54] <A0Sheds> just as it's extruded
[04:29:32] <Jymmm> uses standard hp unkjet carteidges for the pigment
[04:29:57] <Jymmm> they just re/fill them with special inks
[04:30:26] <A0Sheds> was probably a z-corp type powder + binder
[04:30:29] <FinboySlick> Jymmm: I think those work by squirting a bonding agent in powder.
[04:30:38] <A0Sheds> that another type of 3d printer
[04:31:17] <Jymmm> no idea, it annoyed me that they demoed the whole thing with a lame ass object instead of something really cool to show off the process.
[04:31:35] <Jymmm> they even did the 3D scanning too
[04:31:37] <FinboySlick> Jymmm: You just wanted them to print a little pony.
[04:31:47] <Jymmm> FinboySlick: O_o
[04:32:15] * FinboySlick gratuitously accuses Jymmm of bronyism.
[04:32:35] <A0Sheds> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpGrFBHhlsM
[04:32:36] <Jymmm> FinboySlick: wth?
[04:32:51] <A0Sheds> 3D Printing Demo 1 - ZCorp ^^
[04:33:15] <A0Sheds> zcorps are slow since they use HP TIJ heads
[04:33:24] <FinboySlick> Every time I hear that piece I think of one of the competitors in Gazillionaire.
[04:35:42] <Jymmm> This is waht I need, but direct print instead of labeling http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lWEQad7zY8
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[04:37:22] <FinboySlick> Jymmm: You printing bottles or what not?
[04:37:51] <A0Sheds> printers like that should be pretty standard by the end of the year from suppliers in China once we get the factory running
[04:38:13] <Jymmm> FinboySlick: packaging
[04:38:27] <FinboySlick> But why do you package in tubes?
[04:38:37] <FinboySlick> Package in square boxes, it's a lot easier ;)
[04:40:07] <A0Sheds> the reason you see all the retrofit printers being used for these apps is because of licensing issues with the printhead makers
[04:40:32] <A0Sheds> it's nearly impossible to purchase inkjet heads
[04:41:41] <A0Sheds> they want a small very controlled market
[04:47:31] <FinboySlick> That makes my free-market person very angry. Market belongs to whoever makes the best stuff for the best price, not whoever locks out competition.
[04:52:48] <A0Sheds> most inkjet cartridges don't actually run out of ink..... they count drops then start to drop nozzles (grey scaling) then just stop printing
[04:53:17] <FinboySlick> Yeah, I know.
[04:53:40] <A0Sheds> it takes the re-fillers and chip makers a year or so to catch up
[04:54:15] <A0Sheds> thats why HP and Lexmark are in the ~120's now for cartridge numbers
[04:54:21] <FinboySlick> I remember running a couple leads to a 'spent' toner cartridge and monitoring it with an amp meter to fake a fuse blow.
[04:54:43] <FinboySlick> And suddently, the printer knew it had a 'new' cartridge and printed just fine.
[04:55:02] <A0Sheds> Samsung still has fuses in their toner cartridges
[04:55:41] <A0Sheds> it's areal honest business
[04:56:53] <FinboySlick> I wonder what would happen if a company decided to just go honest and just plain lay out the bullshit and make it their main selling point? We're not going to kill parts of your printer just so you buy new ones.
[04:57:11] <A0Sheds> the industrial marking inkjets use serial codes to ID cartridges and then they also add RFID so that you can't swap cartridges between vendors
[04:58:26] <A0Sheds> well the HP patent on the original thermal printhead expires real soon
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[04:59:06] <FinboySlick> I guess if we lived a lot longer, current patents wouldn't be so bad.
[04:59:21] <FinboySlick> We'd actually get to reap the advantages of innovation.
[04:59:31] <A0Sheds> FinboySlick, too many patents, they pretty much stick together, the only hope might be China
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[05:01:18] <FinboySlick> A0Sheds: Yeah. I'm sort of against patents myself, sofrware or hardware. Definitely the biotech ones.
[05:02:01] <FinboySlick> Perhaps patents could last 3 years or so, and if that's not enough of a lead for you to grab the market, you don't deserve it.
[05:03:04] <A0Sheds> the other problem is the courts
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[05:03:49] <A0Sheds> if a small outfit gets sued by a large co, how do they come up with 2-3 million to fight?
[05:04:19] <FinboySlick> A0Sheds: Yeah, that too.
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[05:05:01] <FinboySlick> Same the other way around too. If megacorp steals your patented tech, it'll be expired before you even see the end of the trial.
[05:05:05] <A0Sheds> there was a kickstarter project for a 3d DLP printer
[05:05:18] <A0Sheds> they raised $500K
[05:05:46] <FinboySlick> And had to spend 3M on lawyers?
[05:06:08] <A0Sheds> now I'm watching for the lawsuits from 3d systems
[05:06:37] <A0Sheds> they even had a product manager in #lemoncurry
[05:06:55] <FinboySlick> 3d systems did?
[05:06:59] <A0Sheds> yeah
[05:07:17] <A0Sheds> kind of passive agressive
[05:07:34] <FinboySlick> I think it's sad.
[05:07:50] <_abc_> Umm yesterday this url was posted here http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=21387&site=ROCKLER
[05:08:02] <_abc_> It's a good idea, but how does one affix the rail to the table?
[05:08:11] <_abc_> It is not at all obvious?
[05:08:51] <_abc_> It seems to come with special flat headed screws. Is that it?
[05:09:02] <A0Sheds> must be
[05:09:27] <A0Sheds> http://images.rockler.com/rockler/images/25736-06-500.jpg
[05:09:36] <FinboySlick> _abc_: double-sided sticky tape! ;)
[05:09:42] <A0Sheds> looks like they have holes every few inches
[05:09:46] <_abc_> oh noes
[05:09:55] <_abc_> Yes but I wonder how strong they are
[05:10:11] <_abc_> thin headed screw, thin T rail, large fulcrum, ooops
[05:10:17] <FinboySlick> _abc_: I guess that depends on how far appart the screws are.
[05:11:12] <A0Sheds> http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=21334&site=ROCKLER
[05:11:14] <_abc_> I'm not in USA I wonder if I can press some C profile into such service for a very light duty engraver. Has anyone tried this?
[05:11:36] <_abc_> You know Al C profile normally used for trim or for curtain service.
[05:11:42] <A0Sheds> http://www.rockler.com/tech/RTD10000592AA.pdf
[05:12:38] <A0Sheds> #6 flathead screws
[05:12:52] <A0Sheds> 4" centers for the holes
[05:14:22] <A0Sheds> http://www.rockler.com/tech/RTD10000592AA.pdf
[05:14:46] <A0Sheds> nevermind same data sheet
[05:15:37] <A0Sheds> I need to start a open hardware software USB racing wheel project
[05:16:12] <_abc_> what?
[05:16:17] <_abc_> what is a racing wheel?
[05:16:26] <_abc_> steering wheel?
[05:16:32] <FinboySlick> _abc_: that'd be my guess
[05:16:45] <A0Sheds> http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/758788-REG/Thrustmaster_4169056_T500_RS_GT5_Racing.html
[05:17:16] <FinboySlick> A0Sheds: Ever played FlatOut (the first one)?
[05:17:16] <A0Sheds> using industrial servos vs toy motors
[05:17:51] <A0Sheds> heh, I'm not the gamer, I'm just tired of buying and replacing crappy wheels
[05:18:25] <FinboySlick> A0Sheds: LAN games are really really really cool.
[05:18:39] <FinboySlick> It's like Dukes of Hazard :)
[05:18:47] <FinboySlick> Redneck racing.
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[05:19:40] <A0Sheds> http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=Ferrari+F1+Racing+Wheel&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=bZN&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&prmd=imvns&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&biw=1231&bih=876&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=4947680000368282958&sa=X&ei=z_TnT9XGIKfi2gXd8ei5DQ&ved=0CGkQ8wIwAQ
[05:20:32] <A0Sheds> the only tough parts seems to be the USB API for each game
[05:20:58] <FinboySlick> A0Sheds: You only need a hid driver and you'll be fine.
[05:21:07] <FinboySlick> A0Sheds: It's all standardized now.
[05:21:25] <A0Sheds> not for all the features
[05:21:41] <A0Sheds> I hear that the force feedback part is unique
[05:21:50] <A0Sheds> but I'll soon find out
[05:22:45] <A0Sheds> have to sniff the USB and see
[05:22:54] <A0Sheds> anyway, BBL
[05:23:54] <_abc_> Force feedback protocols have been cracked since the 90s
[05:23:54] <FinboySlick> The wheel to driver part likely is unique, but the driver to game bit is standard.
[05:24:01] <_abc_> Look and you shall find
[05:24:06] <A0Sheds> ah ok
[05:24:14] <_abc_> Also using servos as feedback is not so good
[05:24:22] <_abc_> You want a cogging free motor for that
[05:24:41] <_abc_> Neither steppers nor servos fit that picture
[05:25:05] <_abc_> Cheap wheels cheat by using a geared motor, the cogging 'disappears' in the crap mechanical linkages
[05:25:35] <A0Sheds> brushed DC motors with gears
[05:25:35] <_abc_> You could do something using a 2 phase AC motor and a rather fancy driver heh
[05:25:44] <A0Sheds> haven't seen anything better
[05:25:47] <_abc_> A0Sheds: yes that is what makes them suck
[05:26:10] <FinboySlick> A0Sheds: Pneumatic rack and pinion!
[05:26:19] <FinboySlick> Break your kid's arms with ease.
[05:26:20] <_abc_> 2 phase AC motor will not cog and allows adjusting feedback force without limit
[05:27:00] <A0Sheds> how much can a used ton of steering boxes cost?
[05:27:59] <A0Sheds> add you own steering wheel
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[05:29:27] <FinboySlick> Force feedback is only part of the story though.
[05:29:32] <A0Sheds> http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CLP-VEGA-MSB
[05:29:41] <FinboySlick> We need g-force generators. Gentlemen, to your quantum physics labs.
[05:29:57] <A0Sheds> $149.95 Classic Performance VEGA-MSB - Classic Performance Vega Saginaw Manual Steering Gear Boxes
[05:32:43] <A0Sheds> hehe airbag wheel that pops open when you crash
[05:32:53] <A0Sheds> http://www.summitracing.com/parts/GRT-61210/
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[06:57:01] <DJ9DJ> moin
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[08:16:06] cylly2 is now known as Loetmichel
[08:16:27] <Loetmichel> mornin'
[08:17:20] <Loetmichel> hmmmm.... a source in germany for TB6560AHQ chips anyone? have to repair some driver boards...
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[08:58:18] <mrsun> http://existenz.se/out.php?id=57784 =)
[09:00:30] <mrsun> wait
[09:00:39] <mrsun> wrong ... but that is cool also :P
[09:01:34] <mrsun> http://www.wimp.com/metricsystem/
[09:01:36] <mrsun> there it is :P
[09:03:54] <Loetmichel> hrhr... so the imperial system is good for exercising your brain calculator ;-)
[09:04:29] <mrsun> =)
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[09:04:46] <archivist> you dont have to use fractions with inches!
[09:07:54] <Loetmichel> hmmm, when i see drill bits (or screws) with writings like "30/64" on them that tells me: you may not hAVE to, but lot of jou do ;-)
[09:15:54] <mrsun> http://www.wimp.com/underwaterdetonation/ so thaats how raincolouds are made? :P
[09:17:23] <jackc> Loetmichel: 30/64?
[09:17:32] <jackc> 15/32nds, please ;-)
[09:17:57] <jackc> drill sizes in general are annoying though, given the letter and number indexs
[09:18:16] <jackc> but you print out a handy little chart once with index name, fraction, and decimal, and youre all set
[09:18:17] <Loetmichel> may have been 31/64, didnt read it thadt well
[09:18:29] <jackc> ya, it woulda been then
[09:18:48] <jackc> theyre always damn hard to read on smaller bits, i think thats why the index letter and numbers were made
[09:18:57] <jackc> so even if you can only fit '9' on it, its still labelled
[09:19:39] <jackc> aight plane bording, have fun
[09:19:41] * jackc &
[09:20:15] <Loetmichel> mrsun: i have done my military service at a subhunter at the navvy...ive seen the drop bombs detoinate as near as 50-100 yards... its even more impressive live ;-)
[09:21:40] <anonimasu> anyone have the full country and area code for mesanet's fax number?
[09:21:44] <Loetmichel> s/drop bombs/depth charges
[09:22:17] <Loetmichel> anonimasu: ask pcw_home?
[09:22:27] <anonimasu> well he's home at the moment :)
[09:23:19] <anonimasu> pcw_home: if you read this what is the full country code and stuff for ordering from you and what was the name of the connectors and stuff I need for the 7i40-lv-rohs encoder inputs
[09:23:24] <alex_joni> anonimasu: it should be +1 510 ...
[09:23:42] <anonimasu> thanks!
[09:24:29] <anonimasu> if i get 80% of the rpm at 400v (460 is max) I'll have my motors spinning at 4000rpm
[09:24:52] <mrsun> Loetmichel, hehe, never been close to an explosion so i wouldnt know =9
[09:24:52] <anonimasu> like 8m/min for my mini mill..
[09:24:53] <mrsun> =)
[09:25:26] <anonimasu> like 3.6 seconds for the longest axis end to end.
[09:25:51] <anonimasu> and 1.5 for the short one
[09:27:31] <anonimasu> gotta finish the second motor mount tho..
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[09:54:49] <Thiel> morning all here from Germany
[09:55:55] <Thiel> Question do i neet to put THIS->"setp parport.0.pin-04-out-invert 1"
[09:55:57] <Thiel> BEVORE or AFTER ->"net xdir => parport.0.pin-04-out" in HAL
[09:57:36] <micges> generally is good to config pins after connecting them, but in above it doesn't really matter
[09:58:06] <Thiel> thanks
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[10:18:03] <Thiel> micges: whar are this resets for setp parport.0.pin-05-out-reset 1
[10:18:18] <Thiel> What
[10:18:40] <Thiel> do they pull the port after etch step back
[10:19:26] <Thiel> as i see they are set on every STEP output port
[10:20:55] <micges> who? where?
[10:21:56] <Loetmichel> anonimasu: i got about 4,2M/min out of the big CGantry i designed. 6m/min was planned but i made the ballscrewsa to thin so the began vibrating at F4300 was sufficient , bu you wiushed sometines a bit faster because the machine hat 1,5m*1,02m mopvement in a and x
[10:22:02] <Loetmichel> -a+y
[10:22:06] <micges> Thiel: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/hal/parallel_port.html#_parameters
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[10:44:41] <anonimasu> Loetmichel: hehe, think that's fast enough for that envelope?
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[11:12:39] <Loetmichel> anonimasu: barely
[11:12:42] <Loetmichel> +e
[11:14:42] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/MC/balsakopter_fraesen.avi <- moving there with F2400 outside the material
[11:17:34] <Loetmichel> ... and tahts annoying slow if you have to cross the whole table ;-)
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[12:07:58] <anonimasu> Loetmichel: i mean for mine
[12:08:20] <anonimasu> i just got asked to make 1000 parts for someone.
[12:08:56] <Loetmichel> ah
[12:09:20] <anonimasu> some enclosure work milling some holes
[12:09:39] <Loetmichel> so time is an issue, i see. Is your CNC capable of milling at such speeds?
[12:09:53] <Loetmichel> i.e: do you have a highspeed-spindle?
[12:10:02] <anonimasu> 36k rpm..
[12:10:12] <Loetmichel> should be sufficient
[12:10:19] <Loetmichel> then: go for speed ,-)
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[12:16:33] <anonimasu> got a idea about feed/speeds for abs?
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[12:32:46] <de|> I'm not able to register on the forums so I'll try here
[12:33:12] <de|> I use pcb-gcode to get my etch and drill files
[12:33:38] <jthornton> de|, are you using gmail?
[12:33:39] <de|> Etching top and bottom is fine but the drills ... oh the drills
[12:33:43] <de|> Yup
[12:33:52] <de|> That why?
[12:33:56] <jthornton> yup
[12:34:02] <jthornton> spammers love gmail
[12:34:06] <de|> Ah
[12:34:11] <jthornton> do you want to register now?
[12:34:20] <de|> Thx I'll try with work email
[12:34:28] <de|> Yea I'd like to
[12:34:36] <jthornton> I can allow gmail to work for a short time if you want to use it
[12:34:42] <de|> de.structr@gmail.com
[12:34:49] <mrsun> ough
[12:34:53] <de|> K I appreciate!
[12:34:59] <mrsun> now the spammers will like your gmail :P
[12:35:11] <jthornton> yikes
[12:35:16] <de|> Shit
[12:35:20] <jthornton> ok register now
[12:35:25] <de|> Uh delete lol
[12:35:27] <mrsun> dont ever type your email in a logged channel :P
[12:35:35] <jthornton> and let me know when your done
[12:35:40] <de|> K
[12:37:16] <de|> Done waiting on your approval :-)
[12:37:18] <de|> Tux
[12:38:13] <jthornton> done
[12:38:50] <jthornton> sorry about the spam guard but without it I have to filter through a 100 registrations a day
[12:39:09] <de|> Completely understand.
[12:39:17] <de|> Th's for letting me in
[12:39:23] <de|> Thx
[12:39:57] <jthornton> np
[12:40:40] <de|> Best place to post drill question?
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[12:41:20] <de|> Like my pcb-gcode tool table and CNC tool.table not matching
[12:42:01] <jthornton> I'd guess general questions
[12:42:19] <jthornton> but every post gets read by at least a few people
[12:42:54] <de|> K Thx again
[12:42:57] * jthornton heads off now
[12:43:52] * de| breaks more bits
[12:44:05] * de| heads to the forum for help
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[13:42:38] <mrsun> anyone tried tumbling small wood parts ?
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[13:47:38] <JT-Shop> it usually hurts when I tumble on small wooden parts
[13:49:26] <mrsun> hurts ?
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[13:53:02] <Loetmichel> hrhr
[13:53:42] <Loetmichel> JT-Shop, you are a troll, and a good one i must confess ;-)
[13:53:53] <JT-Shop> lol
[13:53:58] <Loetmichel> <- monitor chleaning from coffe spray ;-)
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[14:02:06] <JT-Shop> :-)
[14:08:58] <Jymmm> http://tinyurl.com/Official-JT-Theme-Song
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[14:10:21] <JT-Shop> you funny
[14:11:13] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: Can I borrow the window cleaner from you?
[14:12:53] <JT-Shop> almost time for my monkey pickle...
[14:13:22] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: And you say *I'm* funny?!
[14:14:10] <pcw_home> "everybody funny, now you funny too"
[14:15:08] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: To go along with your monkey pickle... http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-365tpYvZ1nk/TVYCnQZen2I/AAAAAAAADpA/ub1i6nktfC8/s1600/amblogoab.jpg
[14:17:10] <JT-Shop> Jymmm: I sent a case of that to the Marines in Afghanistan along with some other products from the same company
[14:19:40] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: right on, ever hear back from them?
[14:20:01] <Jymmm> This is not bad at all and FRICKIN HUGE http://shop.antimonkeybutt.com/products/Safari-Towels.html
[14:20:04] <JT-Shop> yes
[14:20:15] <JT-Shop> sent a bunch of them too
[14:20:50] <Jymmm> =)
[14:23:03] <JT-Shop> I usually fill the bottom half of the box with monster drinks and the top with snacks and personal hygene items... makes for a nice heavy box
[14:24:02] <Jymmm> USPS Priority Mail Flat Rate Box, up to 70lbs for $9
[14:25:34] <JT-Shop> I use the large flat rate box and it is only $13.45 to a FPO or APO address
[14:25:48] <Jymmm> =)
[14:26:43] <JT-Shop> I send one every week or two
[14:27:42] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: You can't send any lithium batteries, at least not till after January. That includes electronics as well.
[14:29:21] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: sure thing you can
[14:29:34] <Jymmm> =)
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[14:30:19] <Jymmm> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=oHOeuGWCs9s
[14:38:53] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Chicken Poop Lip Balm http://www.drugstore.com/products/prod.asp?pid=155686&catid=183853
[14:39:34] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Anti Monkey Butt Safari Towels http://www.drugstore.com/products/prod.asp?pid=354004&catid=183884
[14:46:10] <Jymmm> Of course, never forget your Spotted dick http://www.drugstore.com/products/prod.asp?pid=325327&catid=184322
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[15:21:56] <anonimasu> what do you quote to cut a 3 minute part?
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[15:22:15] <Jymmm> how many and how hard?
[15:22:30] <taiden> that's a fun message to hear with no context
[15:22:44] <anonimasu> some holes in plastic enclosures
[15:22:56] <anonimasu> qty up to 1000
[15:23:10] <archivist> 3 minutes to cut but an hour to setup
[15:24:00] <archivist> dont forget part changing and packing/unpacking time
[15:24:06] <Jymmm> anonimasu: 1000 pcs or 1000 holes?
[15:24:07] <anonimasu> they are more like 1 minute.. with production feeds but i didnt feel like experimenting
[15:24:27] <anonimasu> like 1000pcs with 3 milled holes per part
[15:24:44] <syyl> we charge the full time for such jobs
[15:25:05] <archivist> worth jigging to do n off per run
[15:25:06] <syyl> job takes x hours, you pay x hours
[15:25:25] <syyl> theres all included, fixtures, setup, programming, ..
[15:26:17] <syyl> and my 5 minutes to get a coffee
[15:28:00] <taiden> does linuxcnc 2.5.0 support G52?
[15:28:57] <taiden> trying to find the best way to quickly write code to cut mutiple parts on a fixture
[15:29:41] <anonimasu> im thinking this, for short run they pay my hands on time with standard shop rate, for a larger run they pay fixture time + reduced pay per hour since i dont have to babysit the mill.
[15:30:29] <anonimasu> (my hands on time is lik 75 eur/hour) and for running a machine it's like roughly 55 eur/hour)
[15:30:51] <anonimasu> syyl: does that sound sane?
[15:31:05] <syyl> we charge 68eur/hour
[15:31:07] <cpresser> taiden: you might consider to use G92
[15:31:09] <syyl> regardles what we do
[15:31:22] <syyl> sheetmetal work, cad/cam work, manual machining, cnc setup
[15:31:31] <syyl> just about anything
[15:31:37] <syyl> but
[15:31:45] * cpresser is in the same range; i carge 60E
[15:31:52] <syyl> that are internal costs for the company
[15:32:07] <syyl> as we only do work for other departments
[15:32:46] <taiden> cpresser: G52 looked so easy to use though :)
[15:33:05] <syyl> but 50 to 70eur is a common charge for machine shops here
[15:33:54] <syyl> some have lower charges, when a machine runs without personel
[15:34:12] <syyl> like 30eur/h when setup and running
[15:34:51] <cpresser> i usually change my rates depending on the project
[15:35:26] <cpresser> another important thing is the time-frame. I charge up to 200E/h it its a job over the weekend
[15:35:46] <syyl> that sounds fair
[15:35:47] <anonimasu> this implies a single run of 1000 parts at once.
[15:36:03] <anonimasu> if they want small runs they pay a hour of fixture/set up time per run
[15:37:17] <anonimasu> i were planning on setting up the lathe for a run of shafts meanwhile.
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[15:39:09] <Jymmm> setup fee + per part fee + holes per part fee
[15:40:01] <anonimasu> my runs are always one off most of the time so quoting stuff for serial production is a bit heavier
[15:41:32] <anonimasu> also, slow machine, cant really charge customers because my eqipment is not new :)
[15:43:43] <cpresser> anonimasu: only if the customer is aware of the fact that you machine is slow :D
[15:45:10] <anonimasu> well, i deliver what they need with the accuracy they need as quick as they need. :)
[15:45:19] <anonimasu> i could pull off 1000 of them in 20 hours.
[15:45:45] <taiden> oh so G52 isn't even implemented at all? is there a specific reason? MDI gives an error when I try to use it
[15:46:02] <JT-Shop> taiden: all the g codes are listed in the manual
[15:46:32] <taiden> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode.html ?
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[15:48:15] <JT-Shop> that or http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode/gcode.html
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[15:58:13] <tjb1> About to order extrusions, anything I should do before placing the order?
[15:58:14] <taiden> can you define g54 within an ngc file?
[15:58:35] <taiden> all my fixtures have different part zeros so it seems like it would be silly for me to use that if it's "hard coded" into the ini file
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[16:03:57] <cpresser> g54 is 'soft coded' into emc.var
[16:05:00] <skunkworks> taiden: look at G10
[16:05:01] <cpresser> there are 10 systems available (G54.. G59.3), if that is equal or less the numer of fixtures you use, go for it :)
[16:05:29] <taiden> i'm planning on using 16
[16:05:42] <taiden> i had my heart set on g52 after reading up on it so im not sure what to use now :)
[16:06:13] <taiden> i'll look at g92
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[16:06:58] <taiden> i tried to set a Z axis zero with g10 for g54 but it wont zero
[16:07:09] <taiden> g10 l2 p1 x0 y0 z0
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[16:07:13] <taiden> only zeros x and y
[16:08:11] <taiden> quite amusing, i dont believe i made an error but i am only human :0
[16:08:14] <taiden> :)
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[16:11:29] <skunkworks> that sets the machine offset to 0 (clearing the offset)
[16:12:30] <skunkworks> what you want probably is G10 L20
[16:13:32] <delkin> Does anyone, here, have experience with these drivers? http://s963.photobucket.com/albums/ae118/infoshine15/?action=view&current=2-9.jpg I've been trying to figure in which position I should leave the dip-switches (decay/microstepping). I still don't understand what they are for nor the consequences if they are not well set. Can someone help?
[16:14:40] <archivist> where did you get the driver from, thay should have instructions
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[16:15:03] <skunkworks> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5CmCzVUyk4
[16:15:07] <JT-Shop> taiden: do you have any g92 offsets on Z by chance
[16:15:11] <archivist> ie read the rest of the ebay page
[16:15:15] <taiden> nope
[16:16:13] <taiden> i want to start from home
[16:16:25] <taiden> and define x y z zero point at the center of all my workpieces
[16:16:46] <taiden> and then have it do cut.ngc on the zero of first, then go to the next zero and run again,
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[16:17:58] <taiden> this twists my knickers
[16:18:07] <taiden> G53 x0 y0 z0
[16:18:13] <taiden> G10 L2 P1 x0 y0 z0
[16:18:15] <taiden> G54 x0 y0 z0
[16:18:27] <taiden> "linear move would exceed joint 0 negative limit"
[16:19:16] <JT-Shop> G54 only "selects" a coordinate system
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[16:21:24] <taiden> i think emc2 reads it as
[16:21:25] <taiden> G54
[16:21:26] <taiden> x0 y0 z0
[16:21:38] <taiden> because it does make feed rate linear moves when i do it as above
[16:21:50] <taiden> (except for the error)
[16:22:19] <taiden> but apparently i had g92 offsets (which someone nailed in the beginning)... quite the humbling learning experience gcode is :)
[16:22:55] <delkin> archivist: I got it from ebay http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CFwQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fduxe.ru%2Fload%2FTB6560HQ%2520T3%2520blue.pdf&ei=1Y7oT_isLaek0QWM8qHvCA&usg=AFQjCNFDlrOo0xzapwJM-lUbFqr3A_LWMw&sig2=CSGvYLMScWhOBAX4Z0wOpg , and I am having a hard time trying to understand what it means. It seems written in chinenglish.
[16:24:04] <taiden> alright i decided to use g92 based on cpresser 's recommendation and i think it will work nicely
[16:25:13] <taiden> i will use g53 to move the tool to each workpiece center
[16:25:28] <taiden> and g92 x0 y0 to set zero
[16:25:33] <taiden> then run the code
[16:25:37] <taiden> then on to the next one!
[16:25:52] <archivist> delkin, and scrolling through to section 8 where the switch is defined
[16:26:46] <JT-Shop> taiden: don't forget a G92.1 after each use of G92!
[16:26:59] <anonimasu> it always is like that call a coordinate system the make a rapid to start point
[16:27:01] <JT-Shop> or you will be left with an offset that might suprise you
[16:27:07] <delkin> archivist: that is my point. I still dont understand if I should go for fast decay, 50%, ... And the microstepping 1, 1/2, 1/8... If I choose the wrong one can I burn the driver?
[16:27:08] <taiden> alright I will do that
[16:27:11] <anonimasu> rapid down to clearence plane
[16:27:12] <taiden> shouldn't g53 ignore that though?
[16:27:22] <anonimasu> delkin: no
[16:27:34] <JT-Shop> yes it does but your next program you run will not ignore it
[16:27:46] <anonimasu> taiden: only thing that will kill your driver quickly is forgetting to set a current limit
[16:28:09] <archivist> delkin, try it, but dont fiddle with the power on, nor unplug motors when powered
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[16:31:16] <archivist> delkin, for backup documentation get the chip datasheet for the driver TB6560
[16:36:26] <taiden> any ideas why gedit is dropping syntax highlighting as soon as i write an ngc file to disk?
[16:37:08] <delkin> archivist: Nice! Please tell me if this reasoning does make sense: The stepper motors I am gonna use have 1.8A/phase, so I am gonna set the current dip-switch to T1:ON T2:OFF (75%*2.5A).
[16:37:08] <jdh> did it have an extension before you saved it?
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[16:38:06] <taiden> it was just in gedit limbo before it was saved as an ngc
[16:38:13] <taiden> no i lied
[16:38:15] <taiden> it was an ngc
[16:38:19] <taiden> my mistake
[16:38:24] <taiden> before and after saving
[16:38:33] <jdh> then, no clue :)
[16:38:36] <taiden> me either
[16:38:50] <taiden> quick rant: I love the heart and soul behind open source software
[16:39:02] <taiden> but I always seem to find really bizarre quirks in most open source software
[16:40:02] <jdh> I'm sure they will gladly accept your patch.
[16:40:13] <taiden> haha that's the problem
[16:40:36] <taiden> im not fluent in every language to patch each piece of software i use
[16:40:47] <taiden> if everything was in python then i'd give it a whirl
[16:42:12] <archivist> delkin, I didnt keep the pdf open, sounds about right
[16:48:07] <delkin> archivist: ok man, thanks for the support!
[16:49:21] <taiden> alright so i have my part cut file
[16:49:28] <taiden> and i have my ngc that locates all the parts on a fixture
[16:49:35] <taiden> what's the most simple way to put them together?
[16:49:53] <taiden> can i just do an import part.ngc or something similar
[16:49:55] <jdh> make the cut a sub, set coords, call, repeate?
[16:50:39] <syyl_ws_> mh
[16:50:59] <syyl_ws_> having a rough casting for a angleplate laying around for two years
[16:51:04] <alex4nder> yoh
[16:51:05] <syyl_ws_> maybe time to machine it...
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[16:51:20] <taiden> would like to be able to call from an external file so I can swap in new part cut file with ease
[16:52:29] <JT-Shop> call what?
[16:56:07] <taiden> the part cut
[16:56:18] <taiden> am I just doing everything in an unorthodox manner?
[16:56:25] <IchGuckLive> Hi all micges Thanks for helping some people today out of my company on parport action
[16:57:05] <IchGuckLive> taiden: you load tooltable and reload g-code done
[16:57:20] <taiden> ?
[16:57:26] <IchGuckLive> taiden: with G41/42 in g-code
[16:57:40] <taiden> i'll catch you up IchGuckLive,
[16:57:53] <taiden> i made gcode file to cut a part, and another gcode file to locate all the parts on a fixture
[16:57:58] <IchGuckLive> taiden: dis you access buildbot master
[16:58:02] <taiden> just trying to put them together
[16:58:28] <taiden> the fixture code uses g92 to set zero
[16:58:34] <IchGuckLive> the other parts have Diverent G5x
[16:58:36] <taiden> just need to call the part cut after each g92
[16:58:57] <taiden> nope, just g92 and thats it
[16:59:16] <IchGuckLive> so you are partzero G54
[16:59:21] <taiden> i use g53 to locate each part from machine zero and g92 to set zero
[16:59:32] <taiden> probably g54 if that's default
[16:59:32] <taiden> yea
[16:59:47] <taiden> i thought g92 was completely separate though
[17:00:10] <IchGuckLive> you are doing it te wrong way as i ment to use G5x fotr the other parts on the Fixure
[17:00:17] <taiden> i have 16 parts
[17:00:30] <taiden> not enough g5x for that
[17:00:43] <IchGuckLive> 16 identical parts
[17:00:45] <taiden> yeah
[17:01:00] <IchGuckLive> why not departing G-code to etch location
[17:01:08] <taiden> i dont follow
[17:01:19] <taiden> "departing"?
[17:01:38] <IchGuckLive> is the space defined on every part
[17:01:52] <IchGuckLive> or free fixure to all
[17:02:08] <taiden> part center is x0 y0 in my part cut file
[17:02:16] <taiden> i have gcode that located part center on my fixture
[17:02:23] <taiden> i just need to call my part cut file after each relocation
[17:02:29] <taiden> they are two separate files
[17:02:37] <taiden> fixture.ngc and part.ngc
[17:02:38] <IchGuckLive> no i mean are they in wrows
[17:02:41] <taiden> yes
[17:02:49] <taiden> 4 x 4
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[17:03:07] <IchGuckLive> only this 16 or are there more to come on the same position
[17:03:14] <taiden> more
[17:03:21] <taiden> i already have the code all set up
[17:03:22] <IchGuckLive> so 16 every cut
[17:03:26] <taiden> yes
[17:03:34] <taiden> i just need to call my part cut file in my fixture file
[17:03:38] <taiden> that's all i need at this point
[17:03:40] <taiden> everything else is solved
[17:03:46] <IchGuckLive> is the G-code secret or can we get alock on ti
[17:03:51] <taiden> you can look at it
[17:03:52] <taiden> one sec
[17:03:52] <IchGuckLive> it B)
[17:04:01] <taiden> i'll pastebin it just give me a second
[17:05:33] <taiden> hate doing stuff with two computers :)
[17:05:40] <IchGuckLive> im asking for it on working with simple python to multiply your part g-Code
[17:05:49] <taiden> well
[17:05:53] <taiden> i'd much rather call from file
[17:06:00] <taiden> that way i can just make minor edits to the part file
[17:06:06] <taiden> and it will cascade through to my fixture file
[17:06:35] <IchGuckLive> ok its your turn on how it might work out
[17:06:38] <taiden> if this is beyond the scope of gcode i can find a different solution
[17:06:56] <taiden> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode/o-code.html#sec:subroutines
[17:06:58] <taiden> i found this but
[17:07:05] <taiden> the example is confusing
[17:07:13] <IchGuckLive> if i got 1Mio part in 16 locations i woudt stay G54 ans get the G-code to all the 16 Locations
[17:07:30] <taiden> yeah but then you have 16 different pieces of code for the same part
[17:07:35] <taiden> with different XYZ numbers
[17:07:47] <taiden> if you have to make minor changes it becomes ridiculous
[17:07:54] <taiden> right?
[17:08:06] <IchGuckLive> no
[17:08:23] <IchGuckLive> you chabnge the main part and run the ofset script
[17:08:32] <taiden> apparently internet on my cnc computer is not working
[17:08:33] <IchGuckLive> oh my english
[17:08:41] <taiden> so i can't send you the file
[17:08:46] <taiden> but what it does is this
[17:08:52] <IchGuckLive> how many lines
[17:08:57] <IchGuckLive> <5k
[17:09:03] <taiden> my part file is 150 lines
[17:09:09] <taiden> since i wrote it by hand
[17:09:22] <taiden> my fixture file is about 40 lines
[17:09:28] <IchGuckLive> cand you depart it by USB stick
[17:09:36] <taiden> yes
[17:09:44] <micges> IchGuckLive: welcome
[17:09:57] <IchGuckLive> micges: THANKS
[17:10:02] <taiden> fixture file:
[17:10:11] <taiden> G53 G0 X1 Y1 ( first part zero )
[17:10:14] <JT-Shop> taiden: you can "call" a subroutine in a file and pass it parameters
[17:10:19] <taiden> G92 X0 Y0
[17:10:24] <taiden> ( part file call )
[17:10:28] <taiden> G92.1
[17:10:30] <JT-Shop> for example
[17:10:30] <IchGuckLive> micges: i warsonRoute today and they did Fire up the 5Axis with minor problems
[17:10:32] <taiden> next section
[17:10:58] <JT-Shop> o<cutfile> call [1.234] [2.345]
[17:11:06] <taiden> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode/o-code.html#sec:subroutines
[17:11:19] <taiden> i found this but i can't figure out how that works
[17:11:28] <taiden> cutfile.ngc
[17:11:35] <taiden> ocutfile sub >>> etc etc
[17:11:39] <taiden> ?
[17:11:52] <JT-Shop> read section 6 of the link
[17:11:56] <taiden> yeah
[17:12:01] <JT-Shop> it shows an example
[17:12:09] <taiden> i read it a few times :)
[17:12:18] <taiden> what is <cutfile> in plain text
[17:12:23] <JT-Shop> see the "called file example"?
[17:12:26] <taiden> yes
[17:12:34] <taiden> do oyu leave the <> in
[17:12:38] <taiden> or is that supposed to be not there
[17:12:45] <JT-Shop> that is the syntax if the subroutine file
[17:13:02] <taiden> so that is exactly what it should be
[17:13:06] <JT-Shop> see how the name of the file and the sub must be the same?
[17:13:09] <taiden> i thought the <> was to be substituted
[17:14:16] <JT-Shop> see the difference between calling a named file and a numbered file?
[17:14:28] <taiden> yeah
[17:14:57] <taiden> so what if i wanted to run the part file as a single part later
[17:15:08] <taiden> can i just load it and run? or do I need to make a ngc that calls it
[17:15:15] <JT-Shop> call it in the MDI tab
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[17:15:27] <taiden> that makes sense
[17:15:32] <taiden> so then just
[17:15:39] <taiden> o<cutfile> call
[17:15:43] <taiden> and it will do it's thing
[17:15:50] <JT-Shop> also note you can pass the X and Y coordinates to your file as a variable
[17:16:04] <JT-Shop> JT-Shop> o<cutfile> call [1.234] [2.345]
[17:16:15] <taiden> wait
[17:16:17] <taiden> so then
[17:16:20] <taiden> does that define zeros?
[17:16:42] <JT-Shop> yes, if you program it to do so
[17:16:43] <jdh> your sub can do whatever it wants with the args
[17:16:49] <taiden> so it just passes it as a variable
[17:16:53] <taiden> which you have to handle in your subroutine
[17:16:55] <JT-Shop> aye
[17:16:59] <JT-Shop> aye
[17:17:00] <taiden> alright
[17:17:06] <taiden> just like any other programming language
[17:17:10] <taiden> :)
[17:17:10] <JT-Shop> I see a lightbulb
[17:17:21] <IchGuckLive> O:O
[17:17:25] <IchGuckLive> O.O
[17:17:26] <taiden> gcode is both stupid and smart haha
[17:17:46] <taiden> like the lookahead for tool compensation is really neat
[17:17:58] <JT-Shop> please read this http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode/overview.html#_parameters_variables_a_id_sec_parameters_a
[17:18:15] <taiden> will do
[17:20:19] <taiden> thanks all
[17:20:23] <taiden> we'll see how this works out
[17:21:37] <taiden> "unable to open file <square>"
[17:21:46] <taiden> i have my subroutine directory set in .ini
[17:21:58] <taiden> and my square.ngc in that directory
[17:24:04] <IchGuckLive> taiden: woudt be esyer for us to get a look into the gcode to see what you expect to help you
[17:24:30] <taiden> I think I got it, thanks IchGuckLive
[17:24:38] <IchGuckLive> NP
[17:25:14] <JT-Shop> taiden: did you create the subroutine file as the example shows?
[17:25:17] <taiden> yes
[17:25:20] <taiden> i got it to load
[17:25:27] <JT-Shop> ok
[17:25:28] <taiden> but when it reaches the call line the program just halts
[17:25:56] <JT-Shop> does your subroutine do anything?
[17:25:57] <IchGuckLive> you need to prozess the vars to your X Y Z
[17:26:31] <taiden> yeah
[17:26:36] <taiden> right now it just does a square
[17:26:41] <taiden> in xy plane
[17:26:54] <JT-Shop> can you pastebin the subrounine file?
[17:27:02] <JT-Shop> and the line you used to call it
[17:27:06] <taiden> i'll see if i can get internet working on the cnc computer
[17:28:29] <taiden> OK
[17:28:32] <taiden> square.ngc
[17:28:51] <taiden> http://pastebin.com/wTXhirk7
[17:28:58] <taiden> fixture.ngc
[17:29:08] <JT-Shop> drop the %'s
[17:29:14] <taiden> ok
[17:30:34] <taiden> SUCCESS
[17:30:41] <taiden> ultimate success
[17:30:45] <taiden> thanks all
[17:30:55] <taiden> once it works it's so easy, but getting there can be rough
[17:31:18] <JT-Shop> http://pastebin.com/Zbkc1VnY
[17:31:26] <jdh> gcode, or women?
[17:31:30] <JT-Shop> ouch
[17:31:34] <taiden> both haha
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[17:32:09] <taiden> alright gents now im off to cut absurd amounts of parts !
[17:32:23] <JT-Shop> pastebin.com/a4TavjSw
[17:32:26] <JT-Shop> see that one
[17:32:35] <taiden> yep
[17:32:40] <taiden> that's what did it for me, thanks JT
[17:32:57] <JT-Shop> see how I used the variables for the part center?
[17:33:02] <taiden> oh yeah
[17:33:06] <taiden> i do
[17:33:19] <taiden> that's clever
[17:33:24] <taiden> so then you can just do
[17:33:28] <JT-Shop> o<square> call [1.234] [2.345]
[17:33:31] <taiden> yeah
[17:33:35] <JT-Shop> aye
[17:33:36] <taiden> holy moly
[17:33:42] <taiden> < mind blown
[17:33:59] <taiden> i could even set
[17:34:04] <taiden> variables for the final outside radius
[17:34:04] <JT-Shop> aye
[17:34:11] <taiden> and then do part variations
[17:34:12] <JT-Shop> up to 30!
[17:34:13] <taiden> from my fixture file
[17:34:20] <taiden> good lawd
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[17:34:30] <JT-Shop> now you have smoke coming out of your ears
[17:34:37] <taiden> well it's funny
[17:34:43] <taiden> this part used to take me 2 hours to make on the lathe
[17:34:47] * JT-Shop goes to make some chips
[17:34:54] <taiden> now it takes 4 minutes
[17:35:02] <taiden> and NOW i will be able to make 16 at a time
[17:35:05] <taiden> while I finish the last 16
[17:35:14] <JT-Shop> there you go
[17:35:23] <taiden> thats an increase in production of
[17:35:31] <taiden> a gazillion percent
[17:35:43] <JT-Shop> time to squeeze in a nap
[17:35:48] <taiden> thanks again JT
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[17:44:15] <IchGuckLive> taiden you got it
[17:44:31] <IchGuckLive> or shoud i post a example
[17:45:50] <IchGuckLive> taiden: in querry
[17:46:03] <taiden> got it!
[17:46:05] <taiden> thanks IchGuckLive
[17:46:35] <IchGuckLive> you can edit this by change al X to X[
[17:46:49] <IchGuckLive> and all Y to ]Y[
[17:47:11] <IchGuckLive> done
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[17:49:35] * jdh pats ND on the head and sends him back off.
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[18:16:27] <IchGuckLive> BY
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[18:28:27] * Tom_itx wonders what flavor chips JT-Shop is making today
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[18:30:52] <JT-Shop> 6061
[18:31:44] <Tom_itx> mmm tasty
[18:33:39] <jdh> with ranch flavored coolant.
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[18:51:39] <bostjan_2> Hello!
[18:53:12] <bostjan_2> I have 10.04 Ubuntu with EMC, on that machine i have radeon x1650 graphic and if someone know, is there any trouble if i put also ATI drivers on (like RTOS problems). Now, my desktop effect are not working. But they are so cool..
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[19:10:21] <bostjan_2> Does anyone know, could i try with ATI linux driver?
[19:14:23] <micges_> surely you can try
[19:14:39] <bostjan_2> Experiences??
[19:14:47] <JT-Shop> a CNC machine with desktop effects seems so wrong...
[19:14:59] <bostjan_2> As i dont want to mess EMC..
[19:15:23] <micges_> but imo you should focus on making system as stable as possible, not on decorations
[19:15:51] <bostjan_2> JT-Shop: You are right!!
[19:16:22] micges_ is now known as micges
[19:18:13] <bostjan_2> Another question. How do you guys do a toolenght probe, i mean software part in EMC...
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[19:20:34] <JT-Shop> probe input
[19:21:08] <micges> bostjan_2: you must have some sensor, connect it in some way into pc (parport, mesa) and connect it's signal to motion.probe-input
[19:21:48] <micges> then read this: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode/gcode.html#_g38_x_straight_probe_a_id_sec_g38_probe_a
[19:21:51] <bostjan_2> Ok, i have that connected to LPT input pin.
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[19:24:26] <bostjan_2> Guys, there is so much of learning, but im going into.. Thanks.
[19:24:45] <JT-Shop> this might help http://linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/component/kunena/?func=view&catid=21&id=18843&limit=6&start=6#18884
[19:26:47] <bostjan_2> And another, just curious. Kress FME1050, does anyone uses it??
[19:30:20] <micges> my friend is using, but I don't remember if 800 or 1050
[19:32:38] <Loetmichel> bostjan_2: h have usede the predecessor
[19:32:46] <Loetmichel> the FM9660E
[19:33:28] <bostjan_2> Did someone has remote rpm speed from EMC??
[19:33:42] <Loetmichel> its okay, the bearings are done for after about a year 8h/5d/week work
[19:33:46] <Loetmichel> it IS possible
[19:34:08] <Loetmichel> but it need some nodification on the speed control ciruit inside the kress
[19:35:39] <bostjan_2> Loetmichel: do you know how it can be done. im quite an electronic guy...
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[19:38:53] <Loetmichel> in short: replace the variable resistor for speed with two Opto Couplers and put an PWM signal to them, inverted on one and straight on the other. 2 RC-filters across the transistors of the coupter cant hurt, either
[19:39:06] <Loetmichel> careful: the speed PCM is LIVE!
[19:39:09] <Loetmichel> PCB
[19:47:10] <bostjan_2> Dont worry about live mains. When i am testing that stuff, im working with isolative 220/220 transformer. As i see, basically PWM does quite speedy switchung from full to minaimal speed, so PWM approximation is the potentiometer level. Does the mid potentiometer contact needs to have capacitor??
[19:48:45] <bostjan_2> Another one. Does anyone has REMOTE control of EMC machine PC. I would like to move monitor, keyboard and mice away because of dust..
[19:53:31] <Loetmichel> hmmm
[19:53:41] <Loetmichel> i do this via VNC
[19:53:44] <Loetmichel> works
[19:54:31] <bostjan_2> Loetmichel:Satisfied (i mean speed and reliability). What is the display resolution you get??
[19:54:35] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=13060 <- supervising the mill while sitting int hte bathtub ;-)
[19:55:17] <Loetmichel> even the webcam runs more or less fluently via VNC
[19:55:39] <bostjan_2> EXCELLENT!!!!
[20:01:06] <Connor> Okay, so, I saw some code some where that allowed jogging and touch off for manual tool changes..
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[20:04:17] <Loetmichel> bostjan_2: be warned: my Linuxcnc-machine is a industrial board with a C2d 2,x GHZ
[20:04:50] <Loetmichel> and it runs nearly full load when VNC AND webcam AND linuxCNC are active
[20:06:53] <bostjan_2> C2D is??
[20:07:38] <Loetmichel> core two duo
[20:08:26] <Loetmichel> 2,8GHz iirc
[20:08:32] <bostjan_2> I have Core2DUO on 2,2 Ghz (Dell 330), so it should work. Maybie i will do also a Webcam VLC encoding and streaming directly..
[20:09:45] <Loetmichel> mine is in a "pizzabox"
[20:09:47] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12265
[20:09:52] <Loetmichel> underneath the Mill
[20:10:00] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12250
[20:10:14] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12247
[20:11:12] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12569
[20:11:19] <Loetmichel> (complete system)
[20:11:43] <Loetmichel> and the silicone keyboards are useable
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[20:12:57] <Loetmichel> nothing to type long sagas, but ok for the machine. and: waterproof and even glowing parts dont go through
[20:13:18] <bostjan_2> Good idea, rubber silicone keyboard. You can spill on it.. Nice workshop you have there.
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[20:15:05] <Loetmichel> bostjan_2: more important then spilling: the swarf have no chance to block keys
[20:15:27] <Loetmichel> they cant get underneath any mechanics, 'cause there isnt any ;-)
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[20:16:42] <bostjan_2> Loetmichel:Are you from Germany??
[20:17:18] <Loetmichel> yes
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[20:18:32] <Loetmichel> why?
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[20:23:07] <bostjan_2> Just courious. Traditional german precision.. I cant show you mine images yet. Maybie in few days..
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[20:33:09] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[20:33:22] <Jymmm> gn9
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[20:37:33] <Tom_itx> gday
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[20:50:21] <syyl_> that was sitting under the bench for two years, now i managed getting started on it..
[20:50:22] <syyl_> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/24396704/IMG_0606.jpg
[20:50:28] <syyl_> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/24396704/IMG_0618.jpg
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[20:57:55] <andypugh> So, how hard is it to set up a PXE boot server?
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[21:02:51] <bostjan_2> Loetmichel:Thanks for your info!!
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[21:07:19] <mrsun> syyl_, alu or cast iron ? :)
[21:07:28] <syyl_> cast iron of course :)
[21:07:49] <mrsun> is angle shlefs in alu any usefull ? :)
[21:08:18] <mrsun> i want to be able to melt cast iron =)
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[21:09:16] <syyl_> for your relief, i didnt make that casting :D
[21:09:33] <mrsun> =)
[21:09:39] <mrsun> still want to be able to melt cast iron =)
[21:14:08] <mrsun> thinking of modifing my alu furnace some, as its at the end of its says i could try and have it oil fired to see how high a temperature i can get =)
[21:14:30] <syyl_> cast iron would be great
[21:14:39] <Loetmichel> mrsun: do you have a cuicible capable of carriing molten steel?
[21:14:40] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[21:14:56] <syyl_> thats the least problem
[21:15:20] <mrsun> Loetmichel, graphite
[21:15:21] <mrsun> :P
[21:15:29] <mrsun> tho its no good for iron realy
[21:15:57] <Loetmichel> mrsun: possible... if the heater is electric/inductive and the whole thing is in argon ;-)
[21:15:58] <mrsun> silicon carbide or whatever its called, isnt that the recomended type? :)
[21:15:59] <syyl_> silicone carbide is the right one, i think
[21:16:09] <syyl_> yeah ;)
[21:16:14] <mrsun> Loetmichel, thats where combusted fuel come into picture
[21:16:18] <mrsun> reducing flame
[21:16:20] <mrsun> no argon needed
[21:16:38] <syyl_> real men melt metal with a flame ;)
[21:16:47] <mrsun> thats one of the reason my steel crucible (made from like 1mm thick sheet metal) has standed out for like 50 melts :P
[21:16:49] <Loetmichel> ... as long as you dont move the graphite cruicible out of the oven to fresh air ;-)
[21:17:13] <mrsun> Loetmichel, the outer layer of graphite will burn off, then the rest is kind of protected by the clay ? :P
[21:17:23] <mrsun> they get eaten up over several melts
[21:18:26] <mrsun> electrical furnaces sucks when it comes to oxidisation
[21:18:36] <mrsun> as the oxygen will never get burned off
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[21:20:48] <Loetmichel> hmm
[21:21:25] <Loetmichel> anyone tried to melt steel just in the cruicible by lowering two carbon rod connected to a walder from above?
[21:22:14] <mrsun> would kill the welding machine
[21:22:22] <mrsun> they arent made for continious duty ... :P
[21:25:27] <mrsun> sucks that cast iron is so hot you need special sand tho ... and coating the sand etc etc :/
[21:25:44] <syyl_> normal oilbond works
[21:26:44] <Loetmichel> mine is... up to 50A ;-)
[21:27:14] <mrsun> well sure at low amps they can deliver 100%
[21:27:14] <Loetmichel> after that: it will simply shut off when overtemp occurs
[21:27:18] <mrsun> mm
[21:27:32] <syyl_> with the 3,5kW you can draw from a 230V socket, ther e will not happen to much
[21:27:48] <syyl_> if you want to melt anything thats a usable ammount
[21:27:52] <Loetmichel> depends on the amount of steel to melt ;-)
[21:28:19] <syyl_> the amount of molten metal will not even fill the sprue of a mold :P
[21:28:24] <andypugh> Loetmichel: Sheffield Forgemasters? http://www.sheffieldforgemasters.com/sfm/facilities/melt-shop
[21:28:31] <andypugh> 110 tonnes at a time..
[21:28:42] <Loetmichel> i have even seen videos where goldsmiths had melted gold or silver in a microwave
[21:29:04] <tjb1> Good luck with that
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[21:29:41] <syyl_> i htought we were at steel?
[21:30:12] <Loetmichel> isnt that impossible. most modern microwaves are short-circuit-protected so the CAN work against a niear short
[21:30:28] <Loetmichel> and iron isnt even such a good conductor as silver or gold
[21:30:54] <Loetmichel> bur granted: the amounts were merely in the 10s of grams
[21:31:39] <syyl_> we could also call it "non practical"
[21:31:40] <syyl_> ;)
[21:32:05] <Loetmichel> well, if one wnats to cast an iron wedding ring...
[21:32:14] <Loetmichel> :-)
[21:32:32] <syyl_> iron needs about four times as much energy to melt as gold...
[21:33:48] <Loetmichel> so?
[21:34:14] <Loetmichel> iron is a much less good conducktor, so the energy deposited in the iron is much greater
[21:34:29] <Loetmichel> but as i said: thats for REAL slamm amounts
[21:34:37] <syyl_> as i said
[21:34:40] <syyl_> non practical
[21:35:13] <Loetmichel> the solution with a big welder (preferable three phase) and a small (10kg) cruicible should work
[21:35:16] <Loetmichel> imho
[21:35:28] <syyl_> 10kg?!
[21:35:41] <Loetmichel> yes
[21:36:10] <mrsun> oo gonna be nice weather tomorrow also, so there will be a day of modifying furnace + soldering in new thermo fuse in the SRS box for the car ... =)
[21:36:17] <mrsun> and a long nice run
[21:36:19] <Loetmichel> if the cruicible si a bit isolatong i see no problem in meting 10kg steel wirh a welder and graphite electrodes
[21:37:18] <syyl_> i will tell muellernick that its that easy ;)
[21:37:25] <andypugh> Induction
[21:37:38] <mrsun> you friends with muellernick ? :P
[21:37:46] <syyl_> yes
[21:37:58] <mrsun> =)
[21:37:59] <syyl_> he lives only ~120km or so from here
[21:38:02] <andypugh> http://webpages.charter.net/dawill/tmoranwms/Elec_IndHeat1.html
[21:38:07] <Loetmichel> syyl_:_ THEORETICAL
[21:38:10] <syyl_> thats where i do my casting
[21:38:14] <mrsun> oh =)
[21:38:14] <syyl_> :)
[21:38:29] <mrsun> hes done some nice videos =)
[21:38:34] <andypugh> (And imagine bringing that project up to date with an Arduino to do the sequencing and adaptive frequency)
[21:38:57] <syyl_> i will tell him :)
[21:39:05] <syyl_> going to see him on saturday
[21:39:05] <andypugh> Doh! I just _copied_ the iso to a liveCD
[21:39:08] <mrsun> i would go for induction rather then arc for small melts i think
[21:39:21] <syyl_> backup is always good, andypugh ;)
[21:39:48] <mrsun> syyl_, his videos has been quite instructive while i was scraping my mill =)
[21:41:19] <syyl_> :)
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[21:52:57] <JT-Shop> Loetmichel: here is what I have so far http://imagebin.org/217815
[21:55:06] <Loetmichel> looks nice, but i would invert the x asis
[21:55:08] <Loetmichel> axis
[21:55:53] <Loetmichel> will be more rigid if the x is a closed rectangel with the bars protunding top and bottom
[21:56:21] <Loetmichel> and then the x sled made in a C-shape out of aluminium with the bearings inward
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[21:57:46] <JT-Shop> I think I follow your idea
[22:00:03] <JT-Shop> would you run the X axis bars horz to each other?
[22:00:16] <JT-Shop> now they are vert to each other
[22:01:43] <Loetmichel> ?
[22:02:11] <Loetmichel> no, but outside of the wooden box that buolds the gantry
[22:02:17] <Loetmichel> on top and bottom
[22:09:11] <Loetmichel> btw: you make the same error as many others: the gantry sides are to weak
[22:09:21] <Loetmichel> make them double an boxes also
[22:09:52] <JT-Shop> OK, I was working on that and was not happy with what I had so far
[22:11:38] <Loetmichel> JT-Shop you have seen THAT?
[22:11:52] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=11205
[22:11:55] <JT-Shop> what?
[22:11:58] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=11175
[22:12:09] <JT-Shop> no
[22:12:21] <Loetmichel> now you have
[22:12:33] <Loetmichel> for inspiration on the gantry sides ;-)
[22:12:34] <JT-Shop> I see now
[22:12:44] <JT-Shop> how did you hold the X axis rails?
[22:13:28] <Loetmichel> that are sipported rails
[22:13:30] <JT-Shop> so you used a set back too to get the tool over the table
[22:13:32] <Loetmichel> supported
[22:13:37] <JT-Shop> ok like the Y
[22:13:53] <Loetmichel> right
[22:14:04] <Loetmichel> i only helped to buold that machine
[22:14:15] <Loetmichel> its from a friend
[22:14:25] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=11178
[22:14:28] <JT-Shop> I like the gantry
[22:19:28] <Loetmichel> :)
[22:19:29] <Loetmichel> its a bit bigger
[22:19:29] <JT-Shop> yes, but the design is scalable to my little toy
[22:19:29] <Loetmichel> 1600*1200*300mm movement iirc
[22:19:29] <mrsun> ough, cant sleep
[22:21:46] <r00t4rd3d> get high
[22:22:43] <taiden> well gents
[22:22:59] <taiden> now I can press a button and make 16 identical parts
[22:23:09] <taiden> thanks all for the help
[22:23:12] <andypugh> I tend to agree with Loetmichel, I think that that design could do with a bit more stiffness in the Y. Just extending the bits at right angles to the sides all the way down to the bearing blocks would help.
[22:24:31] <Tom_itx> i was gonna say the same thing but the phone rang and you beat me to it
[22:25:04] <JT-Shop> that's why I post the photos for more idea :)
[22:25:08] <JT-Shop> taiden: cool
[22:25:26] <Tom_itx> i'm looking for a design link along the same lines
[22:27:37] <Tom_itx> well you know how linear slides are made
[22:27:49] <Tom_itx> was similar using the slotted bearings like i suggested
[22:27:59] <Tom_itx> wrapped around the axis like a C
[22:29:32] <Tom_itx> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/openrail/openrail-open-source-linear-bearing-system?ref=card
[22:29:38] <Tom_itx> similar to that i guess
[22:30:05] <JT-Shop> V bearings
[22:30:11] <Tom_itx> yeah
[22:30:18] <JT-Shop> expensive
[22:30:22] <Tom_itx> i know
[22:30:38] <Tom_itx> but i thing radius'd bearings would have more contact surface
[22:30:52] <JT-Shop> and they wear funny due to the different diameters of contact
[22:31:18] <Tom_itx> do what you did on x only invert it and put the bearings on the outside
[22:31:58] <Tom_itx> and put spacers between the rails inside then
[22:32:30] <JT-Shop> that makes the bearing holders more complicated to make
[22:32:43] <Tom_itx> maybe not, but i see 'twist' in z the way it is
[22:33:02] <JT-Shop> hows that?
[22:33:42] <Tom_itx> if you're plunging it's gonna push up and the top rail will push up and back since the motor is on the side and not directly under it
[22:34:06] <Tom_itx> but we're talking about a wood router here too
[22:34:24] <JT-Shop> any way you mount the spindle it will be off center
[22:34:30] <Tom_itx> yeah
[22:35:25] <Tom_itx> bak to wiring...
[22:35:30] <JT-Shop> If I though bolt the top and bottom then it is really captured
[22:35:32] <Tom_itx> did you see what i did so far?
[22:35:36] <JT-Shop> no
[22:35:54] <Tom_itx> that's what i meant by puting spacers between the rails
[22:36:06] <Tom_itx> kinda like that extrusion stuff
[22:36:31] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/cnc/psu/control3.jpg
[22:36:42] <Tom_itx> gotta finish wiring the mesa boards now
[22:37:38] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/cnc/psu/control4.jpg
[22:37:46] <Tom_itx> hopefully i can get rid of most of that spagetti
[22:38:29] <JT-Shop> looking good
[22:38:40] <Tom_itx> the stepper wires are next
[22:39:18] <Tom_itx> i did the upper left bundle last night for step and direction to all
[22:39:34] <Tom_itx> single wire bundle
[22:40:06] <Tom_itx> i found a bunch of wire i forgot i had
[22:40:10] <tjb1> Whats that for Tom_itx
[22:40:21] <Tom_itx> a sherline :)
[22:40:30] <tjb1> Lots of caps :)
[22:40:31] <Tom_itx> think it'll handle it?
[22:40:42] <Tom_itx> yeah, they were surplus
[22:40:55] <Tom_itx> smaller values but still add up
[22:41:12] <Tom_itx> and i'm told less ripple that way than with one big one
[22:43:00] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, actually those wood braces you have should eliminate most of the twist
[22:43:17] <Tom_itx> it might be better to put the bearings on the outside though
[22:48:18] <andypugh> If the LiveCD stalls after The name of the guy who created ISOLINUX (ie, after the very first line of text on screen) would that indicate that the machine in question probably can't run Lucid?
[22:48:53] <Tom_itx> mine kept giving me CD errors
[22:49:01] <Tom_itx> but i know the cd's are good
[22:49:22] <andypugh> I don't even get that far.
[22:49:25] <Tom_itx> even tried burning one uber slow
[22:49:44] <Tom_itx> no usb boot support or i would have tried that
[22:50:01] <andypugh> I have installed from USB using the image, but I too lack USB boot
[22:50:08] <andypugh> I am wondering about PXE boot
[22:50:47] <andypugh> But the fact that the package-manager upgrade left me with a machine that kernel-panic-ed on boot might also be a bad sign.
[22:51:44] <Tom_itx> i may just keep the box and get an atom to stuff in it
[22:51:54] <Tom_itx> it would look rather lonely in that big box though
[22:53:43] <andypugh> I re-installed Hardy/LinuxCNC. But couldn't log in. No idea why, I can only assume I miss-typed the password twice!
[22:53:51] <andypugh> So I am re-re-reinstalling.
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[22:59:30] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.extremetech.com/computing/131656-the-fanless-heatsink-silent-dust-immune-and-almost-ready-for-prime-time
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[23:03:31] <Tom_itx> cause lord knows no wires are gonna get caught in that
[23:04:13] <archivist> the air bearing is a thermal insulator...snake oil
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[23:06:08] <djdelorie> the design assumes that a 1 thou air bearing is less of an insulator than the much thicker still air boundary on a normal heat sink
[23:06:09] <archivist> boundary layer is dependent on airflow, I see little difference to normal fan design
[23:19:34] <djdelorie> ah, but it's not a new *fan* it's a new *heatsink*
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[23:22:01] <r00t4rd3d> im just glad someone is working on something better then the current crap setup that does not involve water.
[23:23:20] <r00t4rd3d> 5.25 air conditioner.
[23:23:42] <r00t4rd3d> that doesnt condensate
[23:24:07] <djdelorie> the sealed water ones are a decent compromise, assuming you have room for the radiator
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[23:33:52] <r00t4rd3d> i just seen the biggest spider in my life in my cellar
[23:33:53] -!- jthornton-2 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
[23:34:05] <r00t4rd3d> i had to hit it twice with the shovel to kill it
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[23:34:48] <r00t4rd3d> and i normally just leave them alone
[23:34:55] -!- iwoj has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.]
[23:35:01] <r00t4rd3d> this one had to go
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[23:39:21] <andypugh> A huge one just ran across my living-room floor. I said "Hi" and let her be.
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[23:40:22] <r00t4rd3d> i live in the country so bugs dont bother me normally
[23:40:50] * Loetmichel lives inside the city.
[23:40:56] <r00t4rd3d> when they are as big as my hand I have an issue
[23:41:14] <Loetmichel> but bugs normally dont annoy me
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[23:42:05] <Connor> I saw some code or something a while back that allowed you to Jog and touch off for manual toolchange. Anyone know were that would have been and if it's working ?
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[23:43:11] <Loetmichel> exept the bed(stink) bugs... they will die a mercieless death if spotted
[23:43:38] <andypugh> Connor: There is jog-while-paused but I don't think it allows touch-off.
[23:44:21] <Loetmichel> and the gnats of course
[23:44:39] <andypugh> There was a patched version of hal_manual_toolchange from (I think) Ed Nisley. There is also something from mhaberler but I can't recall how far that went
[23:45:00] <Connor> Grumble. Something so simple.... :(
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[23:45:40] <andypugh> It's very far from simple, when you get into trying to make it work.
[23:48:19] <jdh> https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/521382_1015182558984
[23:48:21] <JT-Shop> much simpler to just break up your G code file...
[23:48:26] <jdh> oops
[23:48:32] <jdh> [12:22:56] <jdhNC> connor: http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/component/kunena/?func=view&catid=21&id=18843&limit=6#18853
[23:49:11] <Connor> Yea, I keep hearing that.. But, I just find that totally insane.
[23:49:14] <mhaberler> connor: there are a few different things here - see master: configs/sim/remap/manual-toolchange-with-tool-length-switch (no jog)
[23:49:45] <mhaberler> then there's a jog-while-paused patch which wasnt integrated into master yet:
[23:50:31] <mhaberler> http://git.mah.priv.at/gitweb/emc2-dev.git/shortlog/refs/heads/jog-while-paused-preview1
[23:50:55] <mhaberler> that allows moving around during pause, but NOT touchoff
[23:51:32] <mhaberler> those two approaches are independent and should work in combination
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[23:51:59] <andypugh> Connor: If you are interested, there is an explanation of the problem here: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?WhyManualWhilePausedIsHard
[23:52:26] <andypugh> Folk are working on whittling away at the problems, it wil come eventually
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[23:53:11] <mhaberler> then there's the Les Newell patched hal_manualtoolchange thing which does an abort at toolchange, lets you mdi/jog around, and then automatically run-from-line past the m6 line (within the restrictions of run-from-line)
[23:53:55] <Connor> mhaberler: Issue with that is, you best make sure your back were you need to be before starting up again.
[23:54:09] <mhaberler> right
[23:54:34] <mhaberler> my jog-while-paused patch makes sure it returns before continuing though
[23:54:46] <Connor> it's almost like it needs to record the XYZ location. then abort.. let you jog around.. and stuff.. then before resume, go back to that recorded position
[23:55:43] <mhaberler> if the hal_manualtoolchange approach is ok, that should be doable
[23:57:40] <mhaberler> the approach could be: in the tc comp, poll emcstat and record abs position when aborting; on 'continue' add a MDI G53 g0 <lastpos…>
[23:58:48] <JT-Shop> so long as nothing is in the way your ok
[23:59:52] <mhaberler> ahem, yes..