#linuxcnc | Logs for 2012-06-24

[00:11:26] <r00t4rd3d> in that rose video, where is the debris?
[00:12:08] <r00t4rd3d> oh now there is some..
[00:12:55] <syyl_> those datron machines rock, Jymmm ;)
[00:19:06] <andypugh> As do Brother: http://youtu.be/L5aC5Kpvibc
[00:20:13] <r00t4rd3d> holy fucking tool change~
[00:20:14] <r00t4rd3d> !
[00:20:51] <Connor> So much flood coolant can't tell what's going on.
[00:21:10] <syyl_> when you see a brother machine live
[00:21:14] <syyl_> watching trough the window
[00:21:24] <syyl_> you back off when it moves toward you
[00:21:24] <syyl_> :D
[00:21:30] <syyl_> its just fast
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[00:25:06] <andypugh> I was looking at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7c6pMgqoY2E&feature=fvwp
[00:25:55] <andypugh> (I actually think the Blacktoes look pretty good) and was wondering if people ever fir a second Z to the back to hold a different sort of spindle.
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[00:26:10] <syyl_> if its a realy cold winter, you could use the mill as as fuel for the stove..
[00:26:21] <syyl_> but for its purpose it looks like a good machine
[00:26:22] <ReadError> hmmm so
[00:26:27] <ReadError> what am i better off with
[00:26:32] <ReadError> oil or brush+vac ?
[00:26:34] <andypugh> Yeah, we can't all afford Decke;s
[00:26:38] <ReadError> assuming im manually doing both
[00:27:22] <syyl_> hmm
[00:27:35] <syyl_> i have seen machines with two spindles on one z-axis
[00:27:44] <syyl_> that can be interchanged automaticaly
[00:29:35] <syyl_> i think its a good idea, if you dont want a toolchanger
[00:30:04] <andypugh> Did you see than Emco mill with a spindle-changer?
[00:30:12] <syyl_> whut?
[00:30:30] <andypugh> I posted it to the mailing list
[00:30:54] <andypugh> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/120927276579#ht_1136wt_1413
[00:31:32] <andypugh> One motor and a carousel of tools all in their own spindle bearings
[00:31:51] <syyl_> sure?
[00:32:02] <syyl_> as i remember, that machine uses iso30 tooling
[00:34:02] <syyl_> thats the machine is was refering to
[00:34:06] <syyl_> with the interchanging spindles
[00:34:07] <syyl_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjM0LfrzAZc&feature=related
[00:36:35] <andypugh> It seems have a lot of spindles
[00:38:16] <archivist> for multiple spindles http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6fZjUy0_U0
[00:40:43] <toastyde1th> brush and vac keep chips clear, oil lubricates and reduces cutting temperature
[00:41:43] <toastyde1th> so what do you need to do?
[00:41:43] <toastyde1th> oil also improves surface finish
[00:41:43] <toastyde1th> but won't do anything for chip recutting
[00:41:44] <toastyde1th> brush + vac won't really help recutting either
[00:42:24] <ReadError> sounds like i need a pump
[00:42:30] <ReadError> and a flood table ;)
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[00:44:28] <ReadError> alex4nder really wasnt kidding when he said these things are like barbies
[00:44:43] <toastyde1th> with emc you can put two z axes on the machine
[00:44:43] <toastyde1th> they'll just be called Z and W
[00:45:19] <ReadError> is there a set of drill bits that one could obtain
[00:45:29] <ReadError> with a collar and a known height
[00:45:43] <toastyde1th> most machine controls allow for multi spindle mills
[00:45:44] <ReadError> so i can just chuck one in, put in the known touchoff for z
[00:46:27] <andypugh> ReadError: PCB drills normally have a depth collar
[00:46:50] <ReadError> yea i noticed that
[00:47:01] <ReadError> im lookin for something up to say, .25"
[00:47:10] <ReadError> well maybe not that large
[00:47:18] <ReadError> but same concept
[00:47:37] <ReadError> i wish they had ones that where like square endmills, so i didnt have to account for the V shape
[00:47:44] <andypugh> What is your toolholder?
[00:48:49] <ReadError> its just a taig
[00:48:52] <ReadError> nothin fancy ;/
[00:49:39] <andypugh> Yes, but, still..
[00:50:45] <andypugh> With a collet chuck you could probably just fit a stop-pin in the back, and push cuttters in against the pin
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[01:09:28] <r00t4rd3d> i only have 2 pieces of mdf left in my machine :)
[01:09:52] <r00t4rd3d> the sides to my Y axis
[01:09:56] <Jymmm> the frame and body?
[01:10:19] <r00t4rd3d> pine and aluminum
[01:11:39] <r00t4rd3d> make up the rest and some laminated plywood
[01:12:30] <ReadError> cuttin yet r00t4rd3d ?
[01:12:35] <r00t4rd3d> nope
[01:12:36] <ReadError> im cutting right now
[01:12:43] <r00t4rd3d> to buzy changing stuff
[01:12:48] <ReadError> lol
[01:12:52] <ReadError> get the mount?
[01:12:59] <r00t4rd3d> made one
[01:13:23] <r00t4rd3d> http://i.imgur.com/iSa7e.jpg
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[01:15:17] <r00t4rd3d> i will cut a new one probably out of HDP when i get going
[01:15:40] <r00t4rd3d> or just buy an aluminum one
[01:16:25] <r00t4rd3d> i just got a dollar raise so I got 50 more bucks to burn a week :)
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[01:19:43] <r00t4rd3d> funny i finally got everything to start cutting and i took my table completely apart
[01:20:27] <r00t4rd3d> but i noticed a 1/16th dip in my X axis mdf table
[01:20:36] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: andypugh Deer for breakfast anyone? http://www.snotr.com/video/2772
[01:20:40] <r00t4rd3d> warped from only painting one side i guess
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[01:21:55] <andypugh> Those deer are not shy
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[01:48:20] <r00t4rd3d> http://i.imgur.com/Y5ADb.jpg
[01:53:00] <toner> nice
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[01:54:07] <ReadError> ohai mr toner
[01:54:21] <ReadError> just finished a marathon cutting session
[01:56:02] <toner> yeah?
[01:56:04] <toner> awesome
[01:56:27] <toner> I need to hurry up and move the laser
[01:56:31] <toner> I've got about a week left here, heh
[01:56:47] * toner should probably get back to moving the rest of his crap
[01:58:35] <alex4nder> ReadError: how's the quadcopter coming?
[01:58:38] <andypugh> Not a Snickers cutting session? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snickers ("In the United Kingdom and Ireland, Snickers was formerly sold under the brand name Marathon until 1990"
[01:58:40] <ReadError> where you moving too?
[01:58:46] <ReadError> alex4nder, just cut another frame today ;)
[01:58:48] <toner> ReadError: you got a quadcopter?
[01:58:49] <alex4nder> nice
[01:58:51] <ReadError> this time
[01:58:53] <andypugh> Have I really been resentful for that long?
[01:58:58] <toner> ReadError: about a block, down the hill
[01:59:03] <ReadError> i just multiple cuts
[01:59:05] <ReadError> like 1/2 depth
[01:59:07] <ReadError> then full
[01:59:11] <ReadError> on my aluminum
[01:59:13] <ReadError> worked out well
[01:59:27] * toner just got a quadcopter about 2 weeks ago, and it is basically the coolest thing ever
[01:59:28] <toner> heh
[01:59:31] * toner wants to CNC it ;P
[01:59:35] <ReadError> what you get brah ?
[01:59:37] <ReadError> mqx ?
[01:59:39] <toner> Blade mQX
[01:59:42] <ReadError> ;p
[01:59:43] <andypugh> toner: Have you seen the quadcopter swarm and quadcopter building?
[01:59:51] <ReadError> toner, go bigger ;)
[01:59:54] <ReadError> FPV that thang
[01:59:54] <toner> hehe
[02:00:03] <toner> I've seen some formation drone stuff
[02:00:08] <toner> but not them building :)
[02:00:15] <ReadError> ill show u some vids 1 sec
[02:00:19] <toner> sweet
[02:00:50] <andypugh> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5186HbbE3kA and http://vimeo.com/33713231
[02:01:19] <ReadError> http://vimeo.com/38802024
[02:01:22] <ReadError> i think thats it
[02:01:25] <ReadError> this mobo is garbage
[02:01:33] <ReadError> low latency, horrible youtube
[02:01:47] <toner> whoa
[02:01:52] <r00t4rd3d> what mobo?
[02:02:12] <ReadError> or it could be my bunk wifi down here
[02:02:47] <ReadError> d525
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[02:03:03] <ReadError> i think it might be this 10$ wireless thing i got
[02:03:12] <alex4nder> ReadError: did you just pick that up?
[02:03:15] <ReadError> but probably the mobo
[02:03:45] <ReadError> the mobo?
[02:03:45] <ReadError> nah i had it for a bit now
[02:03:52] <alex4nder> werd
[02:04:10] <ReadError> but boy does it get laggy
[02:04:22] <andypugh> I remember when electric-powered flight was absolutely impossible. It was no more than 20 years ago.
[02:04:53] <ReadError> not in linuxcnc
[02:04:53] <ReadError> but flash media
[02:04:53] <ReadError> i should try enabling the other option in flash maybe
[02:11:06] <ReadError> toner: timecop, the guy that ported the firmware
[02:11:09] <ReadError> is on efnet
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[02:11:18] <ReadError> he calls his quads "dongcopters"
[02:11:22] <toner> oh cool
[02:11:23] <toner> haha
[02:11:33] <ReadError> and, his controller he made, is the "AfroController"
[02:11:45] <toner> I should meet this character
[02:11:46] <toner> heh
[02:12:09] <ReadError> pretty bright guy, total troll
[02:12:34] <toner> heh, uh oh
[02:12:43] <toner> I guess this is the age of trollcopters, huh
[02:13:09] <r00t4rd3d> crashes on purpose
[02:13:18] <toner> so what does he do with his dongcopter armada?
[02:13:50] <ReadError> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsrzBwylodU
[02:13:53] <ReadError> alot of people do FPV
[02:13:59] <andypugh> Armadas traditionally sink
[02:13:59] <ReadError> you can actually make money
[02:14:08] <ReadError> doing aerial photography
[02:14:15] <toner> hm
[02:14:43] <ReadError> like for realestate
[02:14:45] <ReadError> car lots
[02:14:47] <ReadError> etc
[02:15:08] <r00t4rd3d> roof and chimney inspections
[02:15:43] <toner> that is awesome
[02:16:03] <andypugh> ReadError: Forget the 'copter, I want his house
[02:16:05] * toner needs some cameras and transmitters, huh
[02:16:10] <r00t4rd3d> hook a taser up and get cats down from trees
[02:16:11] <toner> haha, seriously
[02:17:12] <r00t4rd3d> i would be scared to strap my camera to a quadcopter
[02:18:31] <r00t4rd3d> ive seen where people have hooked super expensive dslrs onto them.
[02:19:33] <toner> yeah, I still crash too much for that ;P
[02:19:33] <ReadError> yea
[02:19:38] <ReadError> but
[02:19:44] <ReadError> high end controllers pretty much fly themselves
[02:19:51] <toner> right
[02:19:52] <ReadError> you can program GPS waypoints on the computer
[02:19:59] <toner> I want to hack mine and try to make it more autonomous
[02:20:00] <ReadError> it will stay within a meter or so
[02:20:04] <r00t4rd3d> http://quadcopter.heliguy.com/
[02:20:05] <toner> or make new ones or smth
[02:20:07] <ReadError> you cant with the blade ;/
[02:20:11] <ReadError> but
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[02:20:14] <toner> maybe I should just join the navy, haw :P
[02:20:24] <andypugh> Why would you ever use kmalloc when kzalloc exists?
[02:20:24] <ReadError> MWC is like, 50$
[02:20:36] <toner> oh cool
[02:20:48] <ReadError> toner: you can get a setup, minus TX/RX
[02:20:52] <ReadError> for like 150 or so
[02:20:56] <toner> huh awesome
[02:20:57] <ReadError> from goodluckbuy.com
[02:21:02] <toner> thanks for the tip
[02:21:32] <ReadError> https://twitter.com/ReadError67/status/209095596118786050/photo/1/large
[02:21:34] <ReadError> er
[02:21:38] <ReadError> https://p.twimg.com/AubbVjsCQAAyyge.jpg:large
[02:21:41] <ReadError> thats my big dog one
[02:21:43] <ReadError> for AP
[02:22:30] <andypugh> Very generous, says AP
[02:22:33] <toner> whoa cool
[02:22:54] <toner> hmmmmmmmm
[02:23:02] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.ebay.com/itm/190644759648?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649
[02:23:26] <toner> nice
[02:23:28] <ReadError> r00t4rd3d
[02:23:29] <toner> multicopters ftw
[02:23:32] <ReadError> problem with those
[02:23:35] <ReadError> too much flex
[02:23:38] <r00t4rd3d> the price just went down on those, they were 41 last week
[02:23:39] <ReadError> i have 2 DJI frames
[02:23:53] <ReadError> you cant get a rigid frame
[02:23:59] <toner> ReadError: any recommendations on motors for small flying aircraft?
[02:24:03] <ReadError> too much flex in hte rotational axis
[02:24:12] <ReadError> toner: depends on the frame entirely
[02:24:34] <toner> http://triplehelix.org/~ink/laser/balsa-glider-2.jpg heh
[02:24:43] <toner> I hacked together a quick glider with the laser a while ago
[02:24:48] <toner> but I have some ideas for making actual wings
[02:25:09] <ReadError> http://www.goodluckbuy.com/x525-v3-quadcopter-friber-glass-folding-arfset-mwc-flight-control-multicopter.html
[02:25:37] <ReadError> thats frame, esc, motors, MWC
[02:25:44] <toner> pph
[02:25:46] <toner> ooh*
[02:25:56] <ReadError> it can do altitude hold
[02:26:00] <ReadError> so you can flip a switch
[02:26:03] <ReadError> and fly it around
[02:26:07] <ReadError> or just let it stay put
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[02:26:19] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqurBOMdly0
[02:26:32] <ReadError> and, that same firmware, is what warthox is usin to do all those flips
[02:26:43] <toner> whoa so
[02:26:50] <toner> the firmware for that thing is open?
[02:27:07] <ReadError> ya
[02:27:12] <ReadError> its arduino based
[02:27:12] <toner> awesome!
[02:27:19] <ReadError> so the code is easy to read
[02:27:21] <toner> ardupilot?
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[02:27:24] <ReadError> you can hax some stuff in
[02:27:25] <ReadError> nope
[02:27:29] <ReadError> multiwii controller
[02:27:30] <toner> cool
[02:27:37] <toner> I will check this out
[02:27:39] <ReadError> you can hack your own controller
[02:27:44] <toner> awesome
[02:27:47] <ReadError> from a nunchuck + wii motion plus
[02:27:52] <ReadError> but shit, the board is 50$
[02:27:54] <ReadError> with a baro
[02:27:56] <ReadError> cant beat that
[02:28:00] <toner> wow, yeah
[02:28:12] <ReadError> very active community
[02:28:18] <ReadError> new releases pushed out all the time
[02:28:20] * toner will have to join it
[02:28:24] <toner> heh
[02:28:24] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKSDxpimQ_s
[02:28:27] <r00t4rd3d> im buying one
[02:28:32] <toner> maybe get some bigger hardware
[02:28:55] <ReadError> r00t4rd3d
[02:28:56] <ReadError> better yet
[02:29:00] <ReadError> ill send you my gcodes
[02:29:08] <ReadError> get some towel bars from home depot
[02:29:14] <ReadError> and you will have a killer rig ;)
[02:29:28] <ReadError> i just designed a smaller one today
[02:29:35] <ReadError> perfect to start with
[02:30:00] <ReadError> http://i.imgur.com/pb0c4.png
[02:30:04] <andypugh> toner: LinuxCNC is now (in master) fairly good at XY/UV foam cutters
[02:30:06] <ReadError> thats my lower
[02:31:02] <ReadError> you can build that frame for like
[02:31:04] <ReadError> 25$
[02:31:13] <ReadError> w/o bulk purchases
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[02:31:53] <toner> nice
[02:31:54] <toner> hm
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[02:32:13] <toner> I think it would be cool to make a dual rotor flying wing
[02:32:23] <toner> but with the two rotors on the ends of the wing, on servos
[02:32:26] <ReadError> toner
[02:32:31] <ReadError> MWC supports it ;)
[02:32:34] <toner> so it could point upward and hover like a helicopter
[02:32:46] <toner> then just shoot up and airplane forward
[02:32:56] <toner> and do all kinds of neat rolls and maneuver
[02:33:04] <andypugh> I think it has been done full-size
[02:33:23] <toner> http://news.cnet.com/8301-13576_3-57457501-315/drone-dogfights-by-2015-u.s-navy-preps-for-futuristic-combat/?tag=rtcol heh
[02:34:03] <toner> andypugh: probably, but I don't have one
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[02:37:21] <andypugh> Ah, not quite, but close: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AgustaWestland_AW609
[02:38:14] <ReadError> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_Boeing_V-22_Osprey
[02:40:35] <andypugh> They are both real "evil overlord" / Bond Villain transport, aren't they?
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[02:47:07] <taiden> evening gents
[02:47:22] <taiden> got my code i was working on earlier all worked out and it runs quite nicely
[02:47:47] <taiden> now I need to figure out how to set up a fixture and a GUI so I can one click create different styles of part :)
[02:47:56] <taiden> so much for not working today :\
[02:48:09] <ReadError> styles of a part/
[02:50:04] <toner> heh indeed
[02:50:07] <toner> hi taiden
[02:50:17] <toner> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zHlY3P25aA cinematic automation
[02:50:59] <andypugh> If I have a char* string in C, how can I give it a multi-character value? Do I actually have to include a string library? Or can chan->confs[0].UnitString="degrees"; be made to work?
[02:51:26] <djdelorie> what compiler?
[02:51:55] <djdelorie> wait, multi-char, not multi-byte chars
[02:52:27] <djdelorie> a "char *" is not a string per se, but the address of a string. You can assign that address the address of a constant string in memory (like you did) or allocate new memory and copy the string into it
[02:52:36] <toner> you can do strcpy(pointer_to_string, "string literal");
[02:52:57] <andypugh> djdelorie: Gcc
[02:53:05] <toner> also sprintf
[02:53:22] <djdelorie> toner: only if the char* is initialized to point to a sufficiently large buffer
[02:53:29] <toner> true
[02:54:07] <andypugh> I was rather hoping to avoid including a whole (not necessarily threadsafe) library just to populate one part of one struct
[02:54:18] <djdelorie> most people get confused about the difference between assigning the *string* a value, or assigning the *string pointer* a value
[02:54:30] <andypugh> The char* is a fixed-size
[02:54:31] <toner> if (stringPtr) delete[] stringPtr;
[02:54:43] <toner> stringPtr = new char blah blah
[02:54:50] <djdelorie> if the struct says "char * foo" and you want to have it "be" one of a few fixed strings, your example is approprieate
[02:55:02] <djdelorie> toner: that's C++, not C
[02:55:08] <andypugh> djdelorie: I am very much in the "most people" ring of that Venn-diagram.
[02:55:17] <Jymmm> pointers oh my!
[02:55:22] <toner> heh, fine, use malloc
[02:55:32] <djdelorie> toner: only if you want mutable strings ;-)
[02:55:34] <toner> and wrap it in a function if you use it a lot
[02:56:27] <andypugh> That example is totally static. In fact I would cheerfully populate the whole thing with bytes.
[02:56:31] <djdelorie> the most important questions is: the string you are assigning, will its *contents* change, or just *which* string you're pointing to?
[02:56:35] <taiden> different styles of a part like
[02:57:03] <taiden> ngc #1 does the basic cut for the part
[02:57:18] <djdelorie> or, perhaps, are you using a string pointer where an enum would be more appropriate?
[02:57:20] <taiden> then there is ngc #2, #3, #4 which all cut from what #1 leaves but creates three different styles
[02:57:34] <taiden> and then make a fixture that holds say 4 parts
[02:57:38] <djdelorie> (i.e. "enum AngleUnit angle = ANGLE_DEGREES;"
[02:57:39] <andypugh> I am actually emulating data that would be read from an eprom if the boards were newer. It's a completely static byte sequence
[02:57:40] <toner> just allocate a big buffer upfront and overwrite the contents with strcpy or something
[02:57:50] <toner> waste a bit of space, but eh, what will this code be running on?
[02:57:51] <taiden> and be able to say first part is #2, next part is #3, next part is #2, next part is #4
[02:58:01] <toner> allocating memory takes cpu time
[02:58:11] <toner> you have to call into the kernel and all that
[02:58:30] <toner> memory is cheap these days :P
[02:58:42] <djdelorie> toner: malloc only goes to the kernel when the local heap is empty
[02:58:50] <toner> still, though
[02:58:52] <toner> it has to be allocated
[02:58:52] <andypugh> This is part of the Mesa 8i20 driver, all in kernel space and realtime,
[02:58:55] <toner> and deallocated
[02:59:15] <toner> it's fast, but if the string only needs to be large enough for "degrees"
[02:59:19] <djdelorie> andypugh: are you trying to just set up a static block of bytes which "is" the eeprom ?
[02:59:25] <toner> then leaving it allocated is faster
[02:59:25] <andypugh> Yes
[02:59:49] <djdelorie> so, somewhere in this block of bytes is a stream of bytes which spells out "degrees" ?
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[03:00:05] <andypugh> Indeed, and a zero-terminator
[03:00:17] <djdelorie> that is different than what your example does
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[03:00:43] <andypugh> Yes, I know that. If my example worked I wouldn't have bothered you all
[03:01:04] <djdelorie> declare your variable in the structure like this: "char UnitString[8];" since you know the length of the string
[03:01:43] <andypugh> It's pre-declared.
[03:01:44] <djdelorie> when you provide the static initializer for that variable, use "degrees". GCC should warn if the lengths don't match
[03:02:25] <andypugh> it's part of a struct that just got kmalloc-ed.
[03:02:27] <andypugh> char UnitString[HM2_SSERIAL_MAX_STRING_LENGTH+1];
[03:02:58] <djdelorie> ok, that's already a buffer, not a pointer.
[03:03:09] <djdelorie> char * UnitString; would have been a pointer
[03:03:34] <djdelorie> a "pointer" and "that to which it points" are two fundamentally different datum in C
[03:03:58] <djdelorie> in your case, there is no pointer, so to initialize it, you would use either strcpy() or memcpy ()
[03:04:10] <andypugh> Yes. I admit that I am so confused by C I just tend to put * and & in intil the compiler stops moaning.
[03:04:15] <djdelorie> note that GCC is very good at optimizing strcpy() from a constant string
[03:04:48] <djdelorie> heh. That normally results in code that neither you nor the compiler understand well enough to fix ;)
[03:04:56] <andypugh> I was rather hoping not to have to include string.h
[03:05:30] <djdelorie> if you're writing a kernel driver, either <string.h> is the kernel's version, or there's something else you'll need to include
[03:06:28] <djdelorie> anything obtained with kmalloc needs to be filled in either from computed values (i = f(5)) or by a block copy (memcpy/strcpy)
[03:06:32] <andypugh> Would chan->confs[0][0]='d"
[03:06:51] <djdelorie> If the data is *always* the same, you can do a structure assignment, but gcc just uses memcpy anyway
[03:06:59] <andypugh> confs->chan[0][1]='e'
[03:07:09] <andypugh> and so on be simpler?
[03:07:12] <djdelorie> it's faster to call memcpy/strcpy and let gcc optimize it, than do manually try to do it that way
[03:07:45] <djdelorie> GCC will likely turn that 8 byte copy into one 64-bit assignment or two 32-bit ones, depending on the target arch
[03:08:22] <andypugh> I guess I could inline-assemble it
[03:08:37] <djdelorie> you'll just be wasting your time
[03:08:57] <djdelorie> gcc knows how to optimize strcpy/memcpy away *completely* when the source is a constant string like that
[03:09:11] <andypugh> Is there not some curly-brace magic to be used?
[03:09:14] <djdelorie> it will be faster than what you're likely to write, and far more portable
[03:09:29] <djdelorie> the more magic you use, the worse your code gets, because it confuses gcc's optimizer
[03:09:42] <djdelorie> unless you do structure assignment
[03:10:10] <djdelorie> you can't do "a = b;" when a and b are arrays, but you *can* do "a = b;" when a and b are struct's
[03:11:32] <djdelorie> I just tested strcpy (foo, "degrees"); with "gcc -O3", it got turned into two opcodes, no calls at all.
[03:11:46] <djdelorie> movabsq $32481108707206500, %rax
[03:11:46] <djdelorie> movq %rax, foo(%rip)
[03:11:58] <andypugh> it is a common complaint of mine on here that folk ask for help to make their solution work, rather than ask for a solution to the problem.
[03:13:18] <andypugh> So, to go to a higher level. I have this struct: http://pastebin.com/6xfUNuzT and I want to populate it with 100% static data. It is to emulate block of eeprom.
[03:13:50] <djdelorie> and the driver is a read-like thing, that returns some sub-block of it?
[03:14:35] <andypugh> The blocks of data are used to create HAL pins of various sorts
[03:14:55] <djdelorie> I mean, what is the kalloc() for
[03:15:21] <djdelorie> perhaps you could have a static variable hold that, with a static initializer built at compile time, and just return a pointer into that static block rather than copy it
[03:15:35] <andypugh> There are an unknown quantity of them at compile time
[03:15:49] <djdelorie> Note: "float" and "short" are not portable at the byte level across architectures
[03:16:31] <djdelorie> although for a pcie card, it's likely you're only dealing with i386/x86-64 anyway
[03:17:14] <andypugh> This is linuxCNC, it is not really supported on anything other than x86/32 Ubuntu.
[03:17:43] <djdelorie> funny, I just got my Raspberry Pi yesterday, and was wondering if linuxcnc would work on it...
[03:17:55] <djdelorie> not that a mesa card would work on a Pi
[03:18:16] <pcw_home> though theres PCIE on ARM
[03:18:17] <andypugh> Mine is due next week. I will certainly be having a go
[03:18:33] <djdelorie> I suspect there just isn't enough RAM to do useful things, but we'll see
[03:19:23] <djdelorie> pcw_home: thankfully, ARM is typically little endian (there's a BE option, but nobody uses it) and uses the same float/double format as i386
[03:19:46] <Thetawaves> how much ram does it have?
[03:19:48] <djdelorie> SPARC would be the problem case, for example. Or mipseb
[03:19:57] <andypugh> There is a demo of LinuxCNC running on http://www.roboard.com/RB-110.htm
[03:20:05] <djdelorie> 256M but some is allocated to the video buffer. 190M is available to linux userspace
[03:20:15] <Thetawaves> little endian is best endian
[03:20:21] <pcw_home> The VAX is little endian
[03:20:24] <Thetawaves> but what is he issue with be?
[03:20:55] <djdelorie> big endian vs little endian means "float" would be the wrong way relative to some "this is what I expect from an eeprom" code
[03:21:08] <pcw_home> BE is NBO
[03:21:14] <andypugh> Well, not that _exact_ board, but a similar one from the same folks.
[03:21:57] * Thetawaves recently got the pic32 ethernet starter kit
[03:22:04] <djdelorie> whether linuxcnc works well or not on a Pi depends less on linuxcnc and more on how much crap today's modern operating systems load in the background because "RAM is cheap"
[03:22:15] <andypugh> The guy seems desperate to send me a free sample, I am worried about what he might expect in return
[03:23:08] <andypugh> Anyway, we have veered away from my problem!
[03:23:25] <Thetawaves> djdelorie, yeah i was thinking you could massively strip it down... use an ancient window manager
[03:23:53] <djdelorie> The Pi image I'm using uses xfce, gnome is likely itself too big for the Pi
[03:24:07] <djdelorie> but just systemd looked like it was using 10meg itself
[03:24:34] <djdelorie> just so your flash drive is automounted ;-)
[03:25:23] <pcw_home> isn't PIC32 just MIPS?
[03:25:31] <djdelorie> andypugh: anyway, the fastest way to fill in a pre-allocated string buffer is strcpy, let gcc optimize it. If you need to initialize the whole struct to the same thing every time, use a structure copy
[03:25:48] <djdelorie> pcw_home: PIC32 is very mips-like, but they didn't license the core so they can't *call* it MIPS
[03:25:57] <pcw_home> Ahh
[03:26:03] <djdelorie> "it's not mips, wink wink nudge nudge"
[03:26:22] <djdelorie> at least, that's what I've heard.
[03:26:49] <pcw_home> I thinks theres a a FPGA core like that "plasma" or something
[03:26:52] <andypugh> djdelorie: But if I don't have strpy?
[03:27:52] <djdelorie> http://www.linuxforums.org/forum/programming-scripting/79465-strcpy-kernel-space.html
[03:28:37] <djdelorie> but like I said, gcc "knows" about strcpy and will optimize it away completely
[03:29:19] <andypugh> It appears to be working
[03:31:46] <andypugh> On a different issue. Why wouldn't we chance every kmalloc to a kzalloc?
[03:33:16] <djdelorie> if you're going to overwrite all the data anyway, why waste the time filling it all with zeros?
[03:34:28] <andypugh> Well, because I wasted all of today rebooting because krealloc wasn't coping with being sent a pointer from randomised memory
[03:35:12] <andypugh> I am guessing it would have realised it was a new-alloc not a re-alloc had the pointer been null
[03:35:41] <ReadError> Thetawaves
[03:35:44] <ReadError> i got a avr32
[03:35:47] <ReadError> ngw100
[03:35:54] <ReadError> i got it free in college ;)
[03:36:20] <ReadError> has 2 network interfaces
[03:36:22] <ReadError> so if anything
[03:36:26] <ReadError> run linux + iptables
[03:36:29] <ReadError> have a little router
[03:37:41] <djdelorie> kzalloc doesn't return you a null pointer (other than when kmalloc would), it returns a pointer to a block of zeros. The stuff around the block that malloc/free use to manage memory are never random
[03:37:43] <andypugh> (kmalloc a struct with a pointer to an array of pin defintitions of unknown length, iterate through then looking for a zero-sentinel kreallocing as you go. About 10% of the time it worked perfectly. Those 10% runs reallt confused the issue when they coincided with a code change.
[03:38:27] <djdelorie> it might be faster to count first and kmalloc just once, if you can do that
[03:39:07] <andypugh> I can, and did make that change, but it felt rather untidy.
[03:39:18] <taiden> so if I wanted to create a GUI that would trigger different NGC files and be able to set "touch off locations" where would I look first?
[03:40:10] <djdelorie> in user space, realloc() is a time-saver. In kernel space it might be a time-waster depending on the implementation.
[03:40:27] <djdelorie> the fewer calls to alloc/free you do, the less chance of fragmenting memory too
[03:40:55] <andypugh> djdelorie: it involves a lot of reading byte-by-byte from a remote eeprom thorugh a serial interface. Rewinding back to the start and doing it all over again having counted them seems inefficient
[03:41:09] <djdelorie> how big is the eeprom?
[03:41:16] <djdelorie> (bytes, not inches)
[03:41:17] <andypugh> 80 bytes
[03:41:38] <djdelorie> so kalloc 80 bytes, read the whole thing in a block, and process it locally
[03:42:11] <djdelorie> or write a tiny read cache for it, so you only read any given byte once
[03:42:23] <andypugh> Ah, sorry, it is N x 80 bytes
[03:43:10] <andypugh> 80 bytes per pin.
[03:43:23] <djdelorie> is this something you do once at startup, or many times during operation?
[03:43:31] <andypugh> Once
[03:43:58] <djdelorie> so... is the extra time taken, times the number of mesa cards sold, more or less than the time this conversation has taken? ;-)
[03:44:22] <andypugh> Possibly more
[03:44:45] <andypugh> it's every time the machine starts
[03:44:55] <djdelorie> the pc machine, or the cnc machine?
[03:45:19] <andypugh> LinuxCNC
[03:45:56] <andypugh> more specifically, every loadrt hm2_pci
[03:46:05] <djdelorie> I wouldn't worry about it too much then, just make sure it's reliable and reasonably fast
[03:46:08] <andypugh> Or loadrt hm2_7i43
[03:46:22] <djdelorie> reliable is far more important than a few milliseconds
[03:47:08] <andypugh> On thr EPP cards it can take seconds
[03:47:21] <andypugh> (worst-case)
[03:47:23] <djdelorie> ick
[03:47:51] <djdelorie> do you know the max total eeprom size in advance? I.e. some card-specific upper limit?
[03:48:13] <andypugh> Well, the pins have to fit onto 96 bits.
[03:48:41] <andypugh> Worst case would be 96 single-bit values with 32-character names.
[03:48:44] <djdelorie> I mean number of pins
[03:49:08] <djdelorie> perhaps you could allocate a per-card buffer that's "big enough" to cache the eeprom values
[03:49:35] <andypugh> Perhaps _you_ could :-)
[03:50:03] <andypugh> Though it's an interesting idea
[03:50:16] <djdelorie> I mean, if you know in advance that the total memory needed is only 32k because the eeprom chip is that big, you could kalloc 32k of shorts, etc...
[03:50:39] <djdelorie> or use kalloc with a linked list, clean up afterwards
[03:50:50] <pcw_home> I doubt that any sserial device will have more than 12 or PTOC records
[03:51:01] <pcw_home> -or
[03:51:58] <andypugh> I have a terrible worry that PCW has beem banging his head on the table through this entire conversation
[03:52:20] <djdelorie> my parts or your parts? ;-)
[03:52:24] <pcw_home> also array types will compress most multiple channels Nbit data so even 12 is a stretch
[03:52:48] <andypugh> Oh, mine
[03:53:35] <andypugh> Anyway, the count and malloc or realloc on the fly thing is a bit of a diversion
[03:54:05] <tjb1> What does it mean when a linear actuator has a rated load thrust of 675 lb and a max load capacity of 1350 lb
[03:54:12] <tjb1> how much can it actually lift?
[03:54:16] <djdelorie> compared to EPP speeds, strcpy is "instant" ;-)
[03:54:24] <andypugh> What I am now wondering is if I can define a static structure in the header file and copy that as a psuedo-eprom
[03:54:58] <pcw_home> so something like the 7I77 that has 6x 13 bit analog out channels and
[03:55:00] <pcw_home> 6 analog out PTOC records would have 5 fewer PTOC entries with arrays
[03:55:38] <andypugh> I wasn't concerned about the speed of strcpy, I was worried about whether it was available to trapi kernel drivers
[03:55:40] <pcw_home> Oh to patch around the 8I20/7I64 lack of PTOCs?
[03:56:14] <andypugh> pcw_home: Yes, I am trying to create pseudo-ptocs for them
[03:57:44] <pcw_home> I think I saw you mention getting rid of 8i20.c and 7i64.c
[04:00:34] <andypugh> Yes, they are very nearly gone
[04:00:50] <andypugh> (and mesa_auto.c too)
[04:02:11] <pcw_home> we wish they were the same as the generic sserial devices as well as theres special code in SSLBP
[04:02:12] <pcw_home> for them (and we only have 2K of code space there so every wasted bit is s pain)
[04:03:27] <andypugh> djdelorie: You hinted that I could make one struct equal to another. So would it be possible to define a pre-loaded struct of the form I pastebinned in the header file?
[04:03:38] <djdelorie> yup
[04:03:57] <andypugh> Syntax?
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[04:04:27] <djdelorie> at compile time, you could do "static struct pinstruct pin_thing_5 = { 1, 2, 4.5, "degrees", 7 };
[04:04:39] <pcw_home> must be well into tomorrow in the UK
[04:04:41] <djdelorie> then at run time, pin[i] = pin_thing_5;
[04:05:36] <andypugh> pcw_home: 5am. Birds have woken up and it's daylight again.
[04:06:01] <andypugh> djdelorie: sounds too simple.
[04:06:12] <djdelorie> gcc just does a memcpy
[04:06:36] <pcw_home> I dont think I could do that anymore...
[04:06:44] <ReadError> where can i obtain cheap CF sheet inside the USA
[04:06:45] <djdelorie> the problem with arrays is that in C an "array" and "the varable representing an array" are two different types
[04:07:07] <djdelorie> so if you have "char a[8];" and you do "a = b" its trying to assign *pointers*, not the *data*
[04:07:12] <djdelorie> structs don't have that problem
[04:07:29] <djdelorie> so "a = b;" with structs assigns the data, like you'd expect.
[04:08:25] <andypugh> If it's a memcpy the strings have to be fixed length. Do I just escape a 0 and pad with dots?
[04:08:44] <andypugh> Or can I cast a literal to a fixed length?
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[04:09:13] <djdelorie> the string *buffers* are fixed lengths, the "degrees" you use at compile time is something different
[04:09:29] <djdelorie> gcc does the equivalent of strncpy for you
[04:10:11] <djdelorie> so, the size of the string buffer is determined by the struct type, not by the static initializer you give it
[04:10:36] <andypugh> Really? That seems not-at-all like C
[04:11:43] <andypugh> Surely C will insist on copying extra bytes to the most dangerous place possible inless prevented from doing so, at least twice?
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[04:12:12] <djdelorie> at compile time, not run time...
[04:12:30] <djdelorie> at run time it's much more exciting
[04:12:34] <djdelorie> ;-)
[04:12:51] <andypugh> Hmm, specifier for single-precision is?
[04:15:32] <djdelorie> float you mean?
[04:16:14] <djdelorie> something like 1.23 is a float by default
[04:16:52] <andypugh> I want to be very sure it's a 4-byte float
[04:17:10] <djdelorie> then use "float" :-)
[04:17:23] <djdelorie> again, the whole thing about "float" being not as portable as you'd like
[04:17:38] <andypugh> Especially in rtapi..
[04:18:09] <andypugh> I am almost sure that "float" is double in rtapi
[04:19:07] <djdelorie> "float" should be 32-bits in gcc for i386
[04:19:50] <djdelorie> add "static int float_test[(sizeof(float) == 4) ? 4 : -4];" somewhere in your C file and gcc will error out if float isn't 4 bytes
[04:21:23] <andypugh> I am now almost certain that I have no clue
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[04:22:15] <djdelorie> I would be very surprized if sizeof(float) were 8 for you
[04:24:28] <andypugh> I think you are right. hal_float_t is a double, I think, but that is different.
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[04:26:00] <andypugh> It seems that " static struct hm2_8i20_0 {0xA0,0x10,0x01,0xC0,(float)1.0,(float)0,0,"degrees","angle"}; "is not the correct incantation
[04:26:26] <djdelorie> static struct hm2 = { ... }
[04:26:40] <djdelorie> or better, static const struct hm2 = { ... }
[04:27:00] <djdelorie> it's like "int i = 5;" but bigger
[04:27:52] <Jymmm> const???
[04:28:15] <djdelorie> means read-only so its value can be assigned at compile time
[04:28:43] <djdelorie> vs creating a const copy from which the variable is initialized at run time
[04:28:58] <Jymmm> if it's a constant, how can you assign a value?
[04:29:07] <djdelorie> it's a constant "that has this value"
[04:29:26] <Jymmm> of {...} ?!
[04:29:37] <djdelorie> it's "constant" at run time but at compile time you can pre-set its value, and it has that value for the duration of the program
[04:29:46] <djdelorie> yes, that's how you initialize a struct
[04:29:47] <Jymmm> (I see no vlae there is what I'm saying)
[04:29:51] <andypugh> sserial.h:38: error: expected identifier or ‘(’ before ‘=’ token
[04:29:57] <djdelorie> the "..." means "fill in the blank"
[04:30:14] <Jymmm> literally or figuratly?
[04:30:21] <djdelorie> ah, ok... static struct TYPE VARIABLE = { DATA } ;
[04:30:43] <Jymmm> (ok, figuratively =)
[04:31:03] <Jymmm> so declaration and assignment at the same time
[04:31:21] <djdelorie> "struct type" should match whatever's in that header, so in your case, you can skip the "struct" part
[04:31:21] <Jymmm> It's beena while since I touched c
[04:31:50] <andypugh> I tried static const sserial_data_t hm2_8i20_0 = {0xA0,0x10,0x01,0xC0,(float)1.0,(float)0,0,"degrees","angle"};
[04:31:56] <djdelorie> Jymmm: right
[04:32:16] <Jymmm> I thought "{...}" might have had some menaing to the compiler =)
[04:32:45] <Jymmm> ++--++--++ <--- that means something! LOL
[04:33:13] <Jymmm> all that pre/post incremanent/decrament shit =)
[04:34:15] <djdelorie> http://www.delorie.com/tmp/andypugh.c
[04:37:21] <andypugh> I am not utterly confused, because I thought what I had was identical to that..
[04:37:31] <djdelorie> take out the (float)
[04:37:36] <andypugh> But your version works, and mine doesn't
[04:38:02] <Jymmm> djdelorie: LOL, I wrote that shit many moons ago... http://codepad.org/3KG01buI
[04:38:17] <andypugh> Ah. OK. How do I make sure it isn't copied accross as a double?
[04:38:44] <djdelorie> the "float" in the structure definition defines the type, not the constant you're initializing it with
[04:39:26] <andypugh> OK, that makes sense now that there is a typedef in the declaration.
[04:40:10] <andypugh> I had imagined I was defining a byte list to be blindly copied
[04:40:47] <djdelorie> nope, gcc does the initialization on a field-by-field basis according to normal C casting rules. It just does it at compile time to *create* the byte stream which *is* the variable
[04:44:06] <andypugh> Eventually you learn to translate "warning: ISO C90 forbids mixed declarations and code" as "you deleted one bracket too many, you idiot"
[04:44:19] <djdelorie> or added one
[04:44:33] <Connor> What are you all working on?
[04:44:55] <djdelorie> him or me?
[04:45:01] <Connor> andypugh:
[04:45:24] <andypugh> And "suggest braces around assignment used as comparison" means "I reckon you meant == you BASIC programmer, you.
[04:46:01] <andypugh> Connor: I am trying to make the mesa 8i20 driver less stable and more complicated.
[04:46:16] <Connor> ROFL
[04:46:53] <andypugh> No, wait, that is what I am doing, not what I wanted to do
[04:48:53] <andypugh> The Mesa Smart-Serial drivers were written assuming that there would be lots of card-types, and was made modular. Then there were so many cards coming through that Pete decided they should actually self-declare their pin-structure and pin names, so I ended up with 2 modular drivers and "the rest"
[04:49:24] <djdelorie> everything comes in three sizes: standard, regular, and universal.
[04:49:41] <andypugh> So, now I have decided to make the original 2 cards special-cases of the self-configuring cards
[04:51:27] <andypugh> And _now_ I have decided to go to bed, 'cos it is 6am
[04:51:41] <andypugh> Morning, all.
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[04:52:03] <djdelorie> heh. It's morning *here* already
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[05:09:13] <r00t4rd3d> feels like morning in my pants
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[05:12:48] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/openrail/openrail-open-source-linear-bearing-system?ref=card
[05:22:30] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.phlatboyz.com/Phlatformer-Kit_p_10.html
[05:22:36] <r00t4rd3d> they have some cool stuff
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[05:51:17] <Jymmm> r00t4rd3d: I might actually plagerize the phalformer design =)
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[05:55:16] <r00t4rd3d> the vacuum system is a shop vac
[05:56:00] <Jymmm> Plus I have a real vaccum pump for that added pull to achieve fine detail
[06:00:59] <Jymmm> Might as well put it to some use, it just sucks!
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[06:06:55] <Jymmm> r00t4rd3d: http://makeprojects.com/GuidePDF/link/1203/en
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[06:56:00] <DJ9DJ> moin
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[08:23:43] <Loetmichel> mornin'
[08:25:05] <mrsun> hmm "stone dust" or whatever i should call it ... (fine particles from stone crushing) would that be usable in foundry sand? :)
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[08:54:17] <mrsun> found out a nice way to check if aluminium has magnesium ... vinegar =)
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[10:11:02] <Jymmm> mrsun: ???
[10:11:18] <mrsun> vinegar reacts quite strong with magnesium =)
[10:11:30] <mrsun> so if its magnesium in the alloy for example casting stuff, then you can avoid it =)
[10:11:31] <Jymmm> details?
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[10:11:48] <mrsun> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FJRCgHjdeA&t=1m11s
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[10:14:21] <Jymmm> I'll have to check that out later today... See if it can determine the quality of magnesium
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[10:29:11] <Jymmm> mrsun: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4SdKN-Kq58&NR=1&feature=endscreen
[10:34:59] <Jymmm> ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xf52Lch1CkM&feature=related
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[11:01:31] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yLSGzMDvsU&feature=fvwp&NR=1
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[11:25:33] <DrZimmerman> hello everyone
[11:26:03] <DrZimmerman> i'm trying to compile linuxcnc but it always fails at: "configure: error: boost::python is required to build LinuxCNC"
[11:26:29] <DrZimmerman> i've tried to figure out what configure searches for, but i see a big bunch of variables, so i can't really figure out what configure expects
[11:27:12] <DrZimmerman> i'm using gentoo linux and installed boost with the python useflag and the /usr/include/boost directory and it's files exist, so i'm pretty positive that the thing configure expects is there
[11:33:21] <jthornton> you might search the logs for "boost"
[11:49:08] <DrZimmerman> ln -s /usr/lib64/libboost_python-2.7.so /usr/lib64/libboost_python.so
[11:49:11] <DrZimmerman> did the trick
[11:49:39] <DrZimmerman> i think it's because gentoo has several python versions installed at once and has them versioned
[11:49:57] <jthornton> I'm glad you figured it out
[11:50:04] <jthornton> why gentoo?
[11:50:15] <DrZimmerman> i'm using gentoo since ages, i'm used to it :-)
[11:50:29] <jthornton> good reason then, I was just wondering
[11:51:03] <DrZimmerman> and i think it's one of the least trouble some distros out there, but it's probably just my user experience
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[11:58:06] <DrZimmerman> i'm not yet happy with the symlink solution, this has to work automagically without me having to make manually a symbolic link
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[12:04:31] <r00t4rd3d> what kernel is gentoo using atm?
[12:04:51] <r00t4rd3d> python may be the least of your problems
[12:05:28] <DrZimmerman> 3.2.12
[12:05:37] <DrZimmerman> i'm only simulating atm
[12:05:45] <DrZimmerman> don't have any actual hardware to use linuxcnc with
[12:05:51] <DrZimmerman> nor money to buy it :-)
[12:08:54] <r00t4rd3d> your kernel has to be built with rapti support
[12:09:49] <r00t4rd3d> or what ever its called
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[12:11:37] <r00t4rd3d> and 3.2.12 by default does not have it
[12:12:45] <r00t4rd3d> and linuxcnc is probably looking for an older version of boost
[12:12:59] <r00t4rd3d> or boost/python
[12:13:10] <r00t4rd3d> what ever that is
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[12:15:53] <r00t4rd3d> did you get Linuxcnc to start?
[12:18:54] <r00t4rd3d> removing the -2.7 from libboost_python-2.7.so would probably work too
[12:19:27] <DrZimmerman> i maybe soon get access to schneider electric VFD's and servo drive's
[12:19:30] <DrZimmerman> not yet
[12:19:44] <DrZimmerman> no, then i break gentoo
[12:19:48] <DrZimmerman> i've made a symlink
[12:19:52] <r00t4rd3d> ya
[12:20:31] <r00t4rd3d> you have not got LinuxCNC to start yet?
[12:21:28] <DrZimmerman> nope, i'm just now trying to install it in a gentoo conform way
[12:21:37] <DrZimmerman> which means with the gentoo portage system
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[12:22:01] <r00t4rd3d> open a term, tail -f /var/log/dmesg
[12:22:13] <DrZimmerman> why?
[12:22:17] <r00t4rd3d> then try and start it, see if you get a rapti error
[12:22:32] <DrZimmerman> well, first i have to be able to build it :-)
[12:22:43] <r00t4rd3d> oh
[12:23:07] <DrZimmerman> building by hand is easy, but then the files are spread somewhere and portage has no clue where they are
[12:23:18] <r00t4rd3d> i hate gentoo
[12:23:19] <DrZimmerman> that's why i first have to write a propper ebuild file
[12:23:30] <DrZimmerman> i like it :-)
[12:23:48] <DrZimmerman> although sometimes i hate it too ;-)
[12:24:07] <r00t4rd3d> it makes you work too much
[12:24:18] <r00t4rd3d> to get simple shit to work
[12:24:35] <DrZimmerman> well i have this experience from all the other distros
[12:24:52] <r00t4rd3d> granted i think ubuntu sucks balls too
[12:24:53] <DrZimmerman> i sometimes worked my ass of for the most simple things which i would've done in a snap on gentoo
[12:25:25] <DrZimmerman> but i also think i've worked my ass off because of lack of knowledge of the other distro
[12:25:41] <r00t4rd3d> did you learn on gentoo?
[12:26:20] <DrZimmerman> i'm using it since ~10 years
[12:26:31] <DrZimmerman> but i've had debian, knoppix, ubuntu, fedore, mandrake
[12:27:40] <r00t4rd3d> debian would probably be your best bet
[12:27:57] <r00t4rd3d> without the retarded ubuntu shell on it
[12:28:33] <ReadError> i need a good cheap CF source ;/
[12:28:34] <DrZimmerman> well, i've had some many many years ago my last debian experience and i've started to hate it back then, dunno why, too long ago
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[12:31:36] <r00t4rd3d> i dont think linuxcnc is gonna work with the latest stable kernel unless your some kinda of magician
[12:32:04] <r00t4rd3d> or a basement dwelling linux guru
[12:32:37] <ReadError> well you need it to be a RT kernel
[12:32:54] <ReadError> i believe alex4nder runs it on debian
[12:33:06] <r00t4rd3d> or a basement dwelling linux guru
[12:33:06] <DrZimmerman> well, till i get the hardware for the cnc it might go another half/whole year, in this time i learn how linuxcnc works, maybe write some code for it and learn how to circumvent all the stones laying in my way
[12:33:22] <ReadError> haha r00t4rd3d
[12:33:27] <r00t4rd3d> :)
[12:33:27] <DrZimmerman> i don't really have time to dwell in my basement :-)
[12:34:01] <ReadError> go cut somethin, foo
[12:34:09] <DrZimmerman> and my working machine definitelly won't be my linuxcnc machine, so i'm ok to downgrade the kernel by the time i need to :-)
[12:34:19] <r00t4rd3d> i just might today
[12:34:44] <r00t4rd3d> i need to finish up my table conversion
[12:34:56] <r00t4rd3d> i need some 1/2 spacers
[12:35:51] <_abc_> DrZimmerman: it's okay, you don't need to dwell in your basement, linuxcnc/axis works great from a remote display
[12:36:11] <_abc_> DrZimmerman: wrt cleaning stones out of the way, I still bump into them after ~25 years
[12:36:22] <_abc_> (but cnc processing is not my real job)
[12:36:34] <DrZimmerman> _abc_, i don't even expect not to bump into any, i'm used to this :-)
[12:36:57] <DrZimmerman> neither it's my real job, i'm electrician
[12:37:11] <_abc_> Anyone interested in patches to the gcode generation features of pcb (geda circuit design program)? I wrote some nice ones see peter5.50webs.com/free
[12:37:40] <_abc_> Should you not have a nick like DrSparky then? :)
[12:37:53] <DrZimmerman> soon have a new job at schneider electric where i'll be programming buildings with LON and BACnet and since i'm working there i hope that i can buy their VFD's and so on cheaply
[12:38:03] <DrZimmerman> good idea :-)
[12:38:05] <archivist> _abc_, poke djdelorie for that :)
[12:38:14] <_abc_> I talked to him on oftc
[12:38:46] <DrZimmerman> this nick is from a star trek character which i found cool some many years ago when the series were still running
[12:39:11] <DrZimmerman> just kept it because i'm too lazy to search for a new nick :-)
[12:39:23] <r00t4rd3d> DrZoidburg
[12:39:43] <ReadError> WHY NOT ZOIDBURG?
[12:39:51] <DrZimmerman> lol
[12:39:54] <DrZimmerman> maybe :-)
[12:40:12] <r00t4rd3d> -NickServ- Information on DrZimmerman (account DrZimmerman):
[12:40:12] <r00t4rd3d> -NickServ- Registered : Jun 10 09:49:17 2003 (9 years, 2 weeks, 3 days, 02:50:42 ago)
[12:40:37] <DrZimmerman> wow, long time
[12:40:47] <DrZimmerman> never thought it's that old
[12:41:02] <ReadError> Registered : Jul 06 00:46:12 2004 (7 years, 50 weeks, 5 days, 11:54:36 ago)
[12:41:08] <ReadError> got me beat
[12:41:15] <DrZimmerman> :-P
[12:41:36] <r00t4rd3d> -NickServ- Registered : Jan 10 15:40:00 2005 (7 years, 23 weeks, 5 days, 21:01:29 ago)
[12:41:38] <r00t4rd3d> :(
[12:41:54] <archivist> Im a noob to Registered : Mar 22 13:26:20 2005 (7 years, 13 weeks, 4 days, 23:14:43 ago)
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[12:47:02] * _abc_ gives archivist a lollypop
[12:47:22] <_abc_> What kind of tool changers are there out there, besides air driven monsters?
[12:47:35] <syyl_ws> hydraulic ones :D
[12:47:46] <_abc_> Erm *lighter* please
[12:47:50] <_abc_> electric, magnetic?
[12:47:53] <syyl_ws> small hydraulic?
[12:47:54] <syyl_ws> ;)
[12:48:07] <syyl_ws> air drivven ones get pretty small
[12:48:48] <syyl_ws> havent seen an electric one jet
[12:48:50] <syyl_ws> yet
[12:49:08] <syyl_ws> except for an electric driven hydraulic.. ;)
[12:49:42] <archivist> I have seen mandraulic, a lever
[12:50:48] <archivist> http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2003/2003_01_23_Clockworks/P1010016.JPG
[12:50:49] <syyl_ws> yeah
[12:50:57] <syyl_ws> thats quite common
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[12:53:26] <archivist> there was an automatic version on that mill but not seen how it was released yet
[12:56:26] <_abc_> http://reprap.org/wiki/PCB_Milling this needs updating, pcb has had gcode output support for years now
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[14:20:43] <DrZimmerman> by the way, what kind of machines do you guys have?
[14:20:55] <DrZimmerman> retrofitted or self built?
[14:22:22] <jthornton> yes
[14:22:38] <jthornton> and some original
[14:23:25] <DrZimmerman> you have any pictures or maybe even documentation?
[14:23:38] <jthornton> gnipsel.com
[14:23:47] <DrZimmerman> i'm especially interested in the mechanical parts
[14:23:53] <DrZimmerman> thanks
[14:44:19] <r00t4rd3d> Egyptians are stupid.
[14:45:37] <r00t4rd3d> soon mubarak will look like a saint.
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[15:51:37] <WillenCMD> I have a question about the linuxcnc license
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[15:53:56] <WillenCMD> i design custom machines for companies, i just started this company and have 3 clients as of now. I designed a gui, using gladevcp and hal components. Reading gcode isn't needed so with help from Andypugh i use the dozens of great halcomps to control these machines.
[15:54:31] <WillenCMD> if i distribute the machine with linuxcnc according to gpl v2 i have to supply the source and retain all authors contributions
[15:56:32] <WillenCMD> what it does not say is controlling the access to the source. If i setup 2 accounds say "programmer = me" and "operator = customer", if i strip them of all the user rights including to accessing the source without my permission is that legal?
[16:12:05] <r00t4rd3d> having the source without access to it is pointless
[16:12:57] <r00t4rd3d> just ship it with barebones linuxcnc and sell your program
[16:14:25] <r00t4rd3d> or sell the support to it
[16:15:27] <r00t4rd3d> and all the tutorials, howtos and updates are in a supported user only forum
[16:16:24] <r00t4rd3d> but i am drifting from the main point i think
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[16:18:36] <r00t4rd3d> also not including your source code so people can tinker and adjust to their setups is kinda anti linux and most people dont favor to that.
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[16:20:47] <r00t4rd3d> AND what could you possibly want to keep so secret in a GUI?
[16:21:44] <r00t4rd3d> can i see a screen shot of this gui?
[16:22:17] <DrZimmerman> r00t4rd3d, some people even wanna keep the most simplest things their "IP"
[16:22:28] <r00t4rd3d> ok steve jobs
[16:23:00] <DrZimmerman> r00t4rd3d, i hope i don't run into such problems with my new imployer, because some basic things i really don't consider "IP", i rather think it's common sense in many things
[16:23:13] <DrZimmerman> s/imployer/employer
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[16:27:53] <WillenCMD> nothing
[16:28:39] <r00t4rd3d> you have a screenshot of the gui?
[16:28:52] <WillenCMD> mainly restrict people like me from getting into it and hacking the files to make changes. Because thats what i did to most of the fanuc machines at my work
[16:29:18] <WillenCMD> except there are no files, mainly paramter bits
[16:29:28] <WillenCMD> enabling features
[16:29:33] <WillenCMD> :)
[16:29:37] <WillenCMD> its legal
[16:29:39] <WillenCMD> lol
[16:30:02] <WillenCMD> i am going to share the gui and all of the python modules with the linuxcnc community
[16:30:25] <WillenCMD> i have gone well beyond the gladevcp's intended use
[16:30:26] <r00t4rd3d> i would share my backdoor too
[16:31:02] <WillenCMD> its the least i can do with all the help i have been given
[16:31:28] <r00t4rd3d> i think you missed it
[16:32:50] <r00t4rd3d> http://i.imgur.com/rVXqB.jpg
[16:32:55] <r00t4rd3d> i love the look of that
[16:36:38] <WillenCMD> i understand that tinkering with source code is what linux is all about, but that being said a user causing malfunctions from tampering with the code. Will consume a lot of my time with fixing the problem.
[16:37:15] <WillenCMD> i know this because i have spend a lot of my time fixing problems with code i have tinkered with
[16:37:25] <WillenCMD> spent*
[16:39:15] <r00t4rd3d> oh well tell them if they mess it up to reinstall it
[16:40:10] <r00t4rd3d> rm -f /WillenCMD
[16:42:40] <r00t4rd3d> you will probably get more people bitching about wanting the source if your gui is any good then people bitching about messing with it and screwing it up
[16:47:09] <WillenCMD> most people would have zero use for it
[16:47:17] <r00t4rd3d> $59.95 a year to access the support forums
[16:47:29] <r00t4rd3d> then your time will be worth something
[16:47:56] <WillenCMD> these are task based machines, simple 2 or 3 axis specially designed for one job
[16:48:18] <r00t4rd3d> making the same parts over and over?
[16:48:31] <WillenCMD> yes
[16:48:39] <r00t4rd3d> what are you making?
[16:49:09] <WillenCMD> the first machine is a cnc diamond cut-off saw, for a tool manufacturing and sharpening company
[16:49:52] <WillenCMD> before they can sharpend a carbide tool for example an endmill the have to cut-off the chipped portion first
[16:50:41] <WillenCMD> right now this involves hand loading an endmill into a 5c rotary hand crank indexer, and feeding down a surface grinder with a cut-off wheel on it while turning the endmill by hand
[16:51:07] <WillenCMD> a tedious task, especially when sharpening 1000's of endmills
[16:51:21] <micges> WillenCMD: why one wants to change source code of gui? in my last company I've selled about 60 machines and only once customer tampered with source, only becouse it was blocked becouse he wasn't paying installments
[16:53:07] <WillenCMD> my machine, the operator loads the endmill into a 5c spindle enter's the amount to remove off the front, and thats it.
[16:53:51] <WillenCMD> it rapids in picks up the outside dameter, and starting zero point, rapids back, starts feeding down, all while the operator is loading the second spindle
[16:56:44] <r00t4rd3d> http://i.imgur.com/Rv8Ab.jpg
[16:56:54] <r00t4rd3d> who needs a cnc router?
[16:57:40] <r00t4rd3d> that is a cool idea for a project
[16:58:08] <Jymmm> not when population is 1.2 billion and you can get lunch for $0.25 USD
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[17:00:30] <r00t4rd3d> buzz killington
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[17:00:45] <IchGuckLive> hi all
[17:01:29] <Jymmm> lol
[17:01:51] <IchGuckLive> Why<
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[17:09:47] <ReadError> how you all polish aluminum ?
[17:10:16] <Jymmm> mirror finish == big ass cotton buffing wheel
[17:10:16] <IchGuckLive> with a mashine
[17:10:58] <IchGuckLive> the cotton weehl with crome polish onto the drill mashine
[17:11:32] <Jymmm> I use stick rubbing compounds
[17:12:32] <Jymmm> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_pillar_of_Delhi
[17:14:10] <Jymmm> 1600 year old iron pillar out in the elements
[17:18:28] <Jymmm> ReadError: how much and do you want a mirror finish?
[17:18:53] <Jymmm> ReadError: or are you trying just to make something not look fugly?
[17:20:36] <tjb1> Not look fugly...haha
[17:20:46] <Jymmm> ReadError: a brush finish is MUCH MUCH easier... http://www.lulusoso.com/upload/20110820/Rotary_Wire_Cup_Brush.jpg
[17:21:04] <Jymmm> tjb1: you never heard the term fugly before?
[17:21:15] <tjb1> Yes, its just funny
[17:21:19] <Jymmm> =)
[17:21:23] <tjb1> Just like rugly
[17:21:34] <Jymmm> rugly?
[17:21:47] <tjb1> really ugly
[17:22:00] <Jymmm> never heard that one.
[17:22:02] <tjb1> the step before fugly
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[17:24:27] <tjb1> What do you think about using an electric actuator to lift the end of a water table to drain it instead of all the complicated work of making the water table not level
[17:26:15] <Jymmm> over complicated
[17:26:16] <IchGuckLive> YES I DID it %-achses New Elektronic running for the first time B) :D
[17:26:29] <IchGuckLive> SMILE
[17:26:50] <tjb1> Its 2 hinges and the actuator mount :P sounds pretty simple to me
[17:27:21] <Jymmm> a 1/4" rod under one end sounds simpler to me.
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[17:28:15] <tjb1> but then the slats arent level
[17:28:38] <Jymmm> arent level with what? the floor? the machine table?
[17:28:46] <tjb1> the gantry movement
[17:29:07] <Jymmm> is the mill in the tub?
[17:29:25] <tjb1> Hmm?
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[17:29:50] <Jymmm> tjb1: needs pics
[17:30:11] <tjb1> http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/469928_3926380233930_1088240025_o.jpg
[17:30:43] <Jymmm> and is the "tub" mounted to the frame?
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[17:30:59] <tjb1> no
[17:31:03] <tjb1> not as of yet
[17:31:13] <tjb1> its heavy enough to just sit there for plasma
[17:31:31] <Jymmm> tjb1: details man details. If it's not mounted to the frame, then it doens't matter if a rod is under one end.
[17:31:56] <tjb1> That makes the slats not longer level with the travel of the torch
[17:32:19] <Jymmm> If it is, then the table is tilted the same as the tub, and just 1/4" higher on one end in refernce to the floor but still parallel with the tub
[17:32:43] <tjb1> so put adjustable feet on the bottom and make the whole table 1/4 out
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[17:37:22] <Jymmm> just hope the floor isn't tilted inversely so =)
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[17:41:41] <IchGuckLive> is there a ready ngc for a turned pillar somewhere
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[18:15:20] <Loetmichel> re @ home
[18:16:17] <ReadError> im still kinda confused about up vs. down milling
[18:16:18] <ReadError> like
[18:16:23] <ReadError> if i have RH endmill
[18:16:29] <ReadError> and i want to profile the outside
[18:16:34] <ReadError> would i go CW or CCW?
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[18:19:21] <Jymmm> ReadError: Does this help? http://www.cnccookbook.com/CCCNCMillFeedsSpeedsClimbConventional.htm
[18:20:33] <IchGuckLive> what is RH material
[18:20:43] <ReadError> right hand
[18:20:45] <ReadError> aluminum
[18:21:48] <IchGuckLive> is this a ballscrew mashine or hevy duty then you woudt go always synchronous Milling
[18:22:10] <IchGuckLive> so left of the contour
[18:22:12] <ReadError> i notice the finish of the material is very dependant on the direction i cut
[18:22:25] <ReadError> either the inside or outside is smoother/nicer
[18:22:37] <jdh> climb vs. conventional
[18:22:38] <IchGuckLive> if the mashine hiolds the cutter go for this
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[18:29:23] <ReadError> i wish visualmill saved my tools
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[19:24:41] <JT-Shop> ReadError: got your mind right on climb vs conventional milling?
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[19:36:16] <ReadError> JT-Shop
[19:36:21] <ReadError> still kinda confused
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[19:36:44] <ReadError> but i been dealin with a few work issues here so havnt got to put my head into it yet
[19:37:02] <ReadError> i was just wondering if there was a generic rule of thumb
[19:37:14] <ReadError> like cutting the outside of something, go CCW
[19:37:17] <ReadError> inside, CW
[19:37:20] <ReadError> that kind of thing
[19:40:46] <JT-Shop> yes, if your using a manual mill with an acme lead screw you use conventional milling for CNC machines you use climb milling
[19:41:21] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: both for inside and outside milling?
[19:41:27] <JT-Shop> yea
[19:42:03] <JT-Shop> you use climb milling because it leaves a better finish and creates less heat from rubbing
[19:42:47] <JT-Shop> so if it is an outside profile with a normal CW spindle you mill the profile in the CW direction
[19:43:09] <JT-Shop> for an inside profile you mill CCW
[19:43:36] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: But if I was making a jewlery box from a billet of aluminum with a fitted lid. and the mill is going CW, wouldn't I later the direction of travel based upon if I was creating a pocket on the inside vs creating a lip on the outside ?
[19:43:51] <Jymmm> s/mill/tool/
[19:43:54] <JT-Shop> for slotting it doesn't matter unless your slot is wider than your endmill
[19:44:32] <Jymmm> maybe I used the wrong term of 'pocket'
[19:44:44] <JT-Shop> outside profiles you go CW inside profiles you go CCW
[19:45:07] <Jymmm> the spinning of the tool or direction of travel?
[19:45:22] <JT-Shop> the travel dir
[19:46:01] <Jymmm> k
[19:46:39] <JT-Shop> http://www.quadrantplastics.com/fileadmin/quadrant/documents/QEPP/NA/Case_Studies_PDF/TIVAR_88/Climb_milling.jpg
[19:47:09] <JT-Shop> better image http://geoteched.com/images/climb2.jpg
[19:47:12] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: side question... you ever did any work on cutting shrink wrap (production/packaging machine)
[19:47:41] <JT-Shop> like a pallet wrapper?
[19:48:01] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: or even product box shrink wrapping.
[19:48:14] <JT-Shop> ReadError: does the image make it clear
[19:48:31] <JT-Shop> heat shrink?
[19:48:54] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: When you buy a hard drive, the box is wrapped in plastic wrap
[19:49:36] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: same stuff as pallet wrap, just thiner.
[19:49:41] <Jymmm> thinner
[19:56:19] <ReadError> hmm
[19:56:20] <ReadError> so
[19:56:28] <ReadError> if im cutting the inside of something
[19:56:33] <ReadError> is hould go with CW
[19:56:38] <ReadError> outside, CCW
[19:57:01] <JT-Shop> just the opposite
[19:58:37] <JT-Shop> as viewed from the positive end of the Z axis
[19:59:17] <ReadError> so its a matter if i want to "uppercut" the material or "cut down into" it
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[20:00:02] <_abc_> The link you posted mentions using conventional milling on the last finishing pass. Also climb milling seems to be important only when pushing speed to the limit.
[20:00:57] <_abc_> In particular, they claim that climb milling lessens the danger of tool breakage because there is negative feedback (conventional milling has positive feedback, mechanically pushing the tool into the part and vice versa)
[20:01:47] <_abc_> That's whence the 'climb' comes, I think. The tool tries to climb out of / away from the work when forced.
[20:02:26] <_abc_> Also I am pretty sure that the 'spoon' mills I use don't work for climb milling at all. I use them for engraving (and sometimes cutting)
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[20:03:34] <JT-Shop> ReadError: I'm sure I don't understand what you mean by "uppercut" or "cut down into"
[20:04:10] <JT-Shop> engraving is the same as slotting and it makes no difference which way you go
[20:05:03] <JT-Shop> I just posted an image link...
[20:05:10] <ReadError> yea i saw
[20:05:22] <ReadError> it just seems the finish on 1 side is much nicer than the other
[20:05:28] <ReadError> depending on what direction i go
[20:05:41] <JT-Shop> finish on aluminum?
[20:06:07] <ReadError> yea
[20:06:28] <JT-Shop> climb cutting has always given me the best finish on aluminum
[20:07:07] <JT-Shop> so are you milling one side then milling the other side but going the same direction during the cut?
[20:07:36] <_abc_> Say, what ball mill shape is preferred for low speed but precise tufnol and fiberglass milling?
[20:08:02] <_abc_> I have some wood mills which have like 6 or 7 edges but I do not think that they are the right kind for this
[20:08:31] <_abc_> Also I seem to work with mill diameters <1mm all the time :)
[20:09:48] <_abc_> Is a hobby cnc mill accurate enough to make a cylinder bore for a piston engine or pump outright, without needing lapping?
[20:10:06] <_abc_> I think that the answer is no, but I am asking...
[20:14:44] <alex4nder> _abc_: what kind of compression do you want to see? ;)
[20:22:37] <_abc_> alex4nder: for a motor, something reasonable, say, maximum 12 by design, probably derated for knocking reasons. For a pump, it will be a vacuum pump so as high as possible ... :)
[20:23:10] <_abc_> alex4nder: small pistons running in a suitable oil have been known to make crazy pressures. You know how a Bosch type Diesel injection pump is built, right?
[20:23:17] <Tom_itx> wood mills have different rake angles than metal cutting mills
[20:23:33] <_abc_> Tom_itx: yes but I am talking about tufnol and FR4
[20:23:44] <_abc_> which are sort of closer to wood... especially tufnol
[20:23:55] <Tom_itx> i'd use carbide on FR4. it's very abrasive
[20:24:11] <Tom_itx> FR4 is nothing like wood
[20:24:13] <_abc_> The mills are all carbide or nitride
[20:25:54] <_abc_> Anyway I am off to bed
[20:26:32] <ReadError> fr4 cuts pretty awesome
[20:26:38] <ReadError> wish i could get it in black though...
[20:26:47] <_abc_> Yes, high density FR4 is very nice to work
[20:27:02] <ReadError> heard its super bad for your lungs though
[20:27:13] <_abc_> But both it and tufnol stink are bad for you
[20:27:18] <_abc_> +and
[20:27:29] <ReadError> do they make it in colors?
[20:27:33] <_abc_> yes!
[20:27:35] <ReadError> or only that yellowish stuff
[20:27:39] <ReadError> ohrly
[20:27:50] <ReadError> i been getting mine from amazon
[20:27:55] <_abc_> It comes in white, green, red, beige and likely black
[20:28:07] <_abc_> I assume more colors are available
[20:28:29] <ReadError> need to find a good cheap USA source then it seems
[20:28:38] <_abc_> I am not in usa...
[20:29:09] <_abc_> Fiberglass epoxy is a major structural material for boat and aircraft building afaik
[20:29:19] <_abc_> It should be available everywhere
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[20:29:40] <_abc_> I think it is being displaced by carbon now.
[20:32:37] <alex4nder> _abc_: I was trying to convey: tolerances are just going to impact your ability to compress.
[20:32:43] <alex4nder> or the opposite
[20:33:01] <alex4nder> so of course a hobby mill can make a nice piston and hole for said piston
[20:33:09] <alex_joni> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KqrO_BQD8E
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[20:38:53] <_abc_> ReadError: http://www.eplastics.com/Plastic/G10_FR4_Glass_Epoxy_Sheet ?
[20:38:59] <frallzor> yoyo
[20:40:14] <JT-Shop> it's the frallzor!
[20:40:33] <_abc_> alex4nder: this is not so obvious you know
[20:40:53] <_abc_> alex4nder: anyway you can mount a lapping head in a cnc and it can lap just fine I guess...
[20:41:05] <_abc_> Or lap with the piston proper...
[20:41:50] <alex4nder> _abc_: what's not obvious about it?
[20:41:58] <alex4nder> can you can drill a hole, and you can make a circle.
[20:42:09] <alex4nder> how well they match, and your ring design, dictates performance
[20:42:26] <_abc_> drilling holes does not result in round holes usually
[20:42:51] <JT-Shop> mack to stepconf conversion software is done... now what?
[20:43:23] <alex4nder> _abc_: I think I'm being too subtle.. I'm saying that you can make a pump with any piston and any hole, how well that pump works is baed on design characteristics.
[20:43:29] <alex4nder> or you're trolling me now. ;)
[20:44:34] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop how about a guide to setting up the 5i25 and sserial etc
[20:44:58] <Tom_itx> or such
[20:45:31] <Tom_itx> isn't it a bit more complex setting up add on cards for it?
[20:47:07] <frallzor> hello there Mr JT
[20:49:13] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx: actually once a couple of jumpers are set and you have field power your good to go
[20:49:33] <JT-Shop> http://gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/configs/index.html
[20:50:29] <Tom_itx> on to bigger and better things then
[20:51:19] <_abc_> alex4nder: okay
[20:56:26] <_abc_> Is this a typical contemporary lapping head shape? http://aaok.com/1-5-8-lap-head.html
[20:56:29] <_abc_> I haven't touched a lapping head in ~25 years
[20:57:53] <frallzor> whatcha doing Mr JT?
[20:58:08] <JT-Shop> piddling with my generator
[20:58:38] <JT-Shop> need to make a couple of cannon parts I think
[20:59:40] <frallzor> "the generator" "cannon"
[20:59:42] <frallzor> I hear ya
[20:59:50] <Tom_itx> finally got all the holes in the box now it's down to the wiring
[21:00:32] <JT-Shop> I picked up a 3 phase 15kw generator the other day and I'm replacing the panel and upgrading the breakers and stuff on it
[21:00:54] <Tom_itx> backup from a grocery store or something?
[21:00:58] <Tom_itx> my friend got one that way
[21:01:11] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[21:01:14] <JT-Shop> police station
[21:01:18] <_abc_> Do you have frequent power outages which mandate keeping such things around?
[21:01:42] * _abc_ also heads for bed, midnight here
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[21:02:02] <frallzor> JT-Shop you didnt steal it I hope
[21:02:10] <Tom_itx> he converted his over to propane
[21:03:10] <JT-Shop> frallzor: nope
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[21:03:54] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx: this one is a 2 cyl diesel Deutz engine
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[21:07:35] <frallzor> http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/4837/chassisrenderrev3.jpg soon to be machined, rev. 3
[21:08:48] <JT-Shop> panel for?
[21:09:05] <r00t4rd3d> http://i.imgur.com/p4zcg.jpg
[21:09:31] <frallzor> not a panel, chassis for htpc-case
[21:09:40] <frallzor> "framework" sort of
[21:10:05] <JT-Shop> ah, ok
[21:10:22] <frallzor> to be covered by 3D-machined woodwork
[21:10:38] <JT-Shop> r00t4rd3d: you build that?
[21:11:20] <frallzor> thats a cute machine, simple design =)
[21:11:29] <frallzor> seems pretty solid
[21:11:38] <r00t4rd3d> JT-Shop, yeah
[21:11:45] <JT-Shop> cool
[21:12:13] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/diy-cnc_router_table_machines/152794-mdf_madness.html
[21:12:19] <r00t4rd3d> my entire build thread
[21:12:35] <r00t4rd3d> my first few photos are laughable
[21:12:41] <frallzor> Sometimes I wish I made a tabletop machine
[21:12:57] <frallzor> then I could fit some bigger machines too =(
[21:13:16] <JT-Shop> I'm making one for testing
[21:13:33] <JT-Shop> r00t4rd3d: it looks much to clean to be fun lol
[21:14:11] <r00t4rd3d> i havent cut anything yet
[21:14:19] <r00t4rd3d> only used a pencil to draw stuff
[21:14:43] <jdh> how will you mount material?
[21:14:48] <frallzor> go cut something!
[21:14:59] <frallzor> I would drill holes and thread em
[21:15:05] <frallzor> and then use em for moutning
[21:15:13] <r00t4rd3d> jdh, http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=21387&site=ROCKLER
[21:15:13] <frallzor> *n
[21:15:25] <r00t4rd3d> those will be ordered soon
[21:15:39] <r00t4rd3d> duct tape and spit for now
[21:20:21] <ReadError> carpet tape is hella strong
[21:20:42] <r00t4rd3d> i have some Gorilla Tape, same people that make Gorilla Glue
[21:20:50] <r00t4rd3d> strong as shit
[21:21:23] <r00t4rd3d> Friday I will order my clamps
[21:22:04] <r00t4rd3d> and probably larger diameter linear rods for my Y axis
[21:23:07] <ReadError> i got some also
[21:23:13] <ReadError> but i think the carpet tape is stronger
[21:23:20] <ReadError> like you might not get the part back off
[21:23:26] <r00t4rd3d> lol
[21:24:32] <frallzor> I used to use carpet tape
[21:24:45] <frallzor> I stopped using it because I ruined parts when trying to remove it
[21:26:40] <r00t4rd3d> ok so if I take a block of wood thats 1 1/8" thick, set it on what i want to cut, lower my bit to the top of it, set my z axis to 1" away, it will only go down an 1/8th of an inch into the wood?
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[21:28:41] <r00t4rd3d> ReadError
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[21:35:02] <andypugh> Does the install script for lucid install the newer kernel?
[21:35:34] <frallzor> woho found my Aspire disk, pure fluke
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[22:56:51] <brentmore> Anyone running a sable?
[22:58:13] <Tecan> depends
[23:00:02] <brentmore> Depends?
[23:02:45] <Tecan> ?depends ??/??
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[23:07:28] <andypugh> Is your question very Sable-specific?
[23:08:12] <brentmore> Wanted to see if anyone's used the sable drivers and motors on another body
[23:08:18] <brentmore> such as the V90
[23:08:35] <andypugh> Are they specific to the Sable then?
[23:09:18] <brentmore> not particularly, although if someone has specific experience with the sable that'd be great
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[23:09:55] <andypugh> Looking at the pictures, they do look like they might be their own.
[23:12:20] <andypugh> The design of the machine looks like it ought to manage a consistent Z-height at least.
[23:13:37] <andypugh> I wonder why my CNC PC doesn't notice USB drives. Could it be a BIOS thing?
[23:14:17] <andypugh> The USB works for the joypad, but fdisk -l sees nothing when a USB drive is inserted
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[23:24:09] <A0Sheds> could be BIOS, what does lsusb show for devices?
[23:25:02] <A0Sheds> really really old kernel, or kernel config with broken options for USB block devices
[23:26:21] <Tom_itx> andypugh is that your new atomis board?
[23:26:26] <Tom_itx> atomish*
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[23:34:26] <andypugh> Tom_itx: No, this is Ye Olde Xeon Server
[23:34:43] <andypugh> I
[23:34:50] <andypugh> Which is now totally broken
[23:35:26] <andypugh> I couldn't get networking to work, so I tried to install netatalk, and the installation crashed.
[23:36:53] <andypugh> So I decided to upgrade to Lucid / 2.5, but it won't boot from USB, or even see USB, so I decided to use the normal update process to 10.04 with the intention of then doing the scripted 2.5 install, but now none of the installed kernels will boot the machine.
[23:37:32] <andypugh> Which is all fairly suboptimal. As I have a lump of material in the vice to machine.
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[23:39:20] <Connor> Anyone know if the Atom D2700 works good with LinuxCNC ?
[23:39:35] <andypugh> So, now I am reading up on PXE boot
[23:39:46] <andypugh> Connor: D2800 is good
[23:40:05] <andypugh> D510 and D525 are good.
[23:40:23] <andypugh> I can see no reason that the D2700 would be bad
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[23:41:30] <Jymmm> andypugh: OH MY GAWD?! ARE YOU SERIOUS?????? Dude, it has a 'D' in it's name, those like the worse bad you could ever have!!!
[23:42:23] <andypugh> Nurse! Jymmm missed his medication again!
[23:42:44] <FinboySlick> What have I connected into?
[23:43:32] <Jymmm> andypugh: (and she's cute too ;)
[23:43:39] <Connor> andypugh: Gets a little better score that the 525's
[23:44:36] <JT-Shop> I raised Sables once, does that count?
[23:44:55] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: they still alive?
[23:46:18] <Jymmm> andypugh: Do you guys have ethnic grocery stores there? Not speciality ones, but reasonable priced ones.
[23:46:53] <andypugh> If you go the right parts of town, yes.
[23:47:05] <Jymmm> andypugh: Asian? Indian? Japanese?
[23:47:43] <andypugh> Not so sure about Japanese, but definitely Indian, Caribbean, turkish, lebanese etc
[23:49:17] <Jymmm> andypugh: Ah, ok. If you find an asian market, check out coconut/palm sugar. Soemtimes in comes in various sized "pucks" some granular, it's not bad and suppose to be good (better than?) if you're diabetic
[23:49:56] <Jymmm> andypugh: Somewhere around $2 USD/LB or so
[23:50:13] <andypugh> I don't really use any sort of sugar.
[23:50:30] <Jymmm> andypugh: coffee, tea, cooking ?
[23:50:46] <andypugh> Not in drinks, and I don't cook anything sweet
[23:50:55] <Jymmm> ah, well nm then =)
[23:52:06] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: for the pelts?
[23:54:39] <FinboySlick> Jymmm: I think he's british, they're supposed to have terrible food tastes ;)
[23:55:36] <Jymmm> FinboySlick: Well, that's implied. I just thought he might be unique and actually have taste buds =)
[23:56:23] <FinboySlick> He does, but they specialized in boiled parts of animals that civilized people normally throw away.
[23:57:21] <Jymmm> FinboySlick: boiled meat, yuck. But I suspect that goes back to the war days, maybe before then too.
[23:57:37] <JT-Shop> Jymmm: I was just being a smart ass
[23:57:57] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Ah, well better to be a smart ass than a dumb ass =)
[23:58:04] <JT-Shop> LOL