#linuxcnc | Logs for 2012-06-21

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[00:16:59] <tjb1> my free computer that "didnt" work
[00:17:04] <tjb1> loaded ubuntu just fine :)
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[01:52:55] <r00t4rd3d> http://imgur.com/a/Tprfb
[01:53:41] <tjb1> nice dewalt
[01:53:54] <tjb1> good luck getting that security tag off the power cord
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[01:56:03] <r00t4rd3d> security tag? you meant the warning label?
[01:56:08] <r00t4rd3d> mean*
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[01:57:02] <SWPadnos> Jymmm, the big machine was a Giddings & Lewis (G&L)
[01:57:14] <tjb1> No, the 3" long thing that slides up and down the cord
[01:57:16] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Ah
[01:57:30] <SWPadnos> I think it used to be a boring machine - more or less 2D drilling, rather than full-on 3D machining
[01:57:53] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: skunkworks was kind enough to link to a pic off yur website
[01:58:01] <SWPadnos> mine? huh
[01:58:11] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: yep, yours
[01:58:12] <SWPadnos> I would have directed you straight to MPM
[01:58:16] <SWPadnos> ok
[01:58:30] <SWPadnos> a video or a picture?
[01:58:49] <Jymmm> pic
[01:59:03] <SWPadnos> huh. I don't remember putting them there.
[01:59:08] <SWPadnos> oh well :)
[01:59:44] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: And some ugly suckeron the left got in the way too http://willepadnos.net/jmkasunich/g-and-l-table-1853.jpg
[01:59:57] <SWPadnos> I'm sure ...
[01:59:58] <Jymmm> http://willepadnos.net/jmkasunich/g-and-l-yaxis-1856.jpg
[02:00:30] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: =)
[02:00:40] <tjb1> You gonna braid that? :P
[02:00:43] <SWPadnos> hey, the second one wasn't me :)
[02:00:50] <SWPadnos> nope, got a pony tail now
[02:00:51] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: How was your day dear?
[02:00:59] <SWPadnos> fine, where's dinner?
[02:01:12] <tjb1> Wasnt Jymmm the one with long hair in the first picture
[02:01:21] <SWPadnos> no, that was me
[02:01:27] <SWPadnos> Jymmm hasn't been there
[02:01:28] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: that aluminum divided tray in the freezer with "Banquete" on it
[02:01:29] <SWPadnos> that I know of
[02:01:35] <SWPadnos> yummm
[02:02:03] <SWPadnos> oh crap. time to start the laundry.
[02:02:04] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Yeah, I know how you're not too fond of food and all
[02:04:03] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Its 2200, shouldn't it be time to FINISH the laundry?
[02:06:14] <Jymmm> though sometimes I've been known to start at 0100 =)
[02:06:53] <tjb1> oh yeah
[02:07:42] <SWPadnos> I forgot to start it earlier in the evening, so it's time to start it now
[02:07:42] <Jymmm> especially when it's been 104F all day
[02:07:50] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: =)
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[02:07:55] <SWPadnos> it feels like 104 here too - got into the 90s today
[02:08:27] <Jymmm> high humidity?
[02:12:21] <SWPadnos> yes, at least near where I'm sweating
[02:12:28] <Jymmm> lol
[02:12:50] <Jymmm> did you ever get that window AC installed LAST YEAR?
[02:16:12] <SWPadnos> Sharon put it in while I was in Manila :)
[02:16:17] <SWPadnos> I guess it got hot here last week
[02:16:19] <Jymmm> lol
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[02:26:03] <Jymmm> alex_joni: This is safety certified for use in EU, right??? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abt8r-ePyBo&feature=player_detailpage#t=95s
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[02:42:16] <pcw_home> Who needs both hands anyway...
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[02:58:06] <Tom_itx> pfft
[02:59:59] <Tom_itx> Jymmm only better thing would be a foot actuated switch
[03:04:22] <pcw_home> Yeah why not get both hands
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[03:30:30] <Tom_itx> :)
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[03:58:09] <Jymmm> I remember using a hydraulic guillotine paper cutter. The blade itself was 1.5" THICK. Scared the shit out of me every time I had to reach underneith the blade. Safety measures be damned, frickin bolt breaks the sheer weight alone is even to chop off a hand or two or three!
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[04:05:42] <uw> bet it cut pretty good though
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[04:06:47] <jdhNC> I used one working at Jack Daniels that would trim about 1000 sheets at a time
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[04:07:47] <uw> i'd be playing on that all day
[04:07:51] <uw> phone books
[04:09:23] <uw> anybody on line who uses a sherline mill?
[04:09:49] <jdhNC> we used it to cut the edges off of fan fold paper after they came off the printer a box at a time.
[04:09:50] <uw> looking for collet recomendations
[04:12:19] <Jymmm> metal
[04:16:38] <Tom_itx> uw i do
[04:17:00] <Tom_itx> lots of 3/8" and 1/8" collets
[04:17:14] <Tom_itx> i use alot of small carbide endmills with 1/8" shank
[04:17:36] <Tom_itx> and there are alot of other endmills available in 3/8" shank
[04:17:45] <Tom_itx> make sure you get a drill chuck too
[04:19:09] <Tom_itx> i made a surface plate for mine as well, drilled and tapped every inch
[04:19:11] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/boards/USBTiny_Mkii/Boxes/milling1.jpg
[04:20:55] <uw> hi Tom_itx i have seen this picture before. excellent btw
[04:21:08] <Tom_itx> it's alot different now
[04:21:28] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: How much of a PITA is it to tilt the stock on that?
[04:21:40] <uw> im wondering if i should deal with the ww collets or just use the spindle taper, as they make 3 sizes for that oto
[04:21:43] <Tom_itx> Jymmm do what?
[04:22:00] <Tom_itx> i have both but use the collets the most
[04:22:10] <Tom_itx> i seldom if ever use the collet inserts
[04:22:22] <uw> thats what i was going with too
[04:22:23] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: the head stock on your mill, looks like it can be tilted 45deg left, right
[04:22:37] <Tom_itx> Jymmm oh, it can but i never move it
[04:22:43] <Jymmm> ah
[04:22:54] <uw> just use the morse #1 collets. they are cheaper and will probably solve my needs fine
[04:22:56] <Tom_itx> i got it because it has more Y axis than the stock one
[04:23:09] <Jymmm> gotcha
[04:23:14] <Tom_itx> uw, i use the machined collets
[04:23:18] <uw> absoluely, thats what i hate about mine, the terrible y axis
[04:23:24] <Tom_itx> :)
[04:23:29] <Tom_itx> i thought ahead
[04:23:38] <uw> did you make them yourself?
[04:23:44] <Tom_itx> no
[04:23:52] <Tom_itx> they're not cheap either
[04:24:05] <uw> yea i was looking at a set of 3 for $45
[04:24:06] <Tom_itx> but that's what i would do
[04:24:12] <Tom_itx> especially if you plan to cnc it
[04:24:25] <uw> yes it is a cnc machine from the factory
[04:24:25] <Tom_itx> that way you can preset your tools and just screw them on and go
[04:24:41] <Tom_itx> otherwise it's a pita
[04:25:00] <uw> i was looking a aparently they make a mini ER collet set for this too
[04:25:09] <Tom_itx> those 2 sizes is about all i use though
[04:25:15] <Tom_itx> really?
[04:25:23] <Tom_itx> i have some collets for mine but never use them
[04:25:28] <Tom_itx> i dunno what they are
[04:25:54] <Tom_itx> and a slitting saw attachment, fly cutter, insert cutter etc
[04:26:05] <uw> i'm surprised you can get a 3/8" collet in there. thats pretty cool really, is that a sherline collet?
[04:26:11] <Tom_itx> yes
[04:26:26] <Tom_itx> they make about 4 sized i think
[04:26:37] <Tom_itx> sizes*
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[04:26:51] <Tom_itx> i personally would get several of each of those
[04:27:02] <Tom_itx> at least the 3/8 and 1/8
[04:27:08] <Tom_itx> that's about all i use like i said
[04:27:23] <uw> just curious, why several? do they go bad or soemthing lol
[04:27:31] <uw> sorry for the bombardment of questions here
[04:27:39] <Tom_itx> no, you can set multiple tools and leave them in the holder that way
[04:27:47] <Tom_itx> enter them in your tool table and you're good to go
[04:27:58] <uw> ohh i see to save your zaxis
[04:28:01] <Tom_itx> yes
[04:28:20] <Tom_itx> otherwise you're running your gcode a tool at a time
[04:28:21] <Jymmm> Say zaxis fast three times =)
[04:28:35] <Jymmm> "save your zaxis" "save your zaxis" "save your zaxis"
[04:28:35] <Tom_itx> yaxis is harder
[04:28:56] <uw> i see you have cherry switches too, are they for homing or just limits
[04:28:57] <Tom_itx> y ax us?
[04:29:03] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Which thermistors are these? http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/toaster_oven/PT100_b.jpg
[04:29:10] <uw> zee axis, it is not homed!
[04:29:12] <Tom_itx> PT100
[04:29:20] <Jymmm> 100C ?
[04:29:20] <Tom_itx> from umm element 14
[04:29:24] <Tom_itx> i think so
[04:29:27] <Tom_itx> no
[04:29:29] <Tom_itx> 500c
[04:29:37] <Tom_itx> or more
[04:29:39] <Tom_itx> hell i forget
[04:29:43] <Tom_itx> there's a pdf on my site
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[04:30:00] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: have any more heater boards?
[04:30:44] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/toaster_oven/DM-508_Temp_Sensor.pdf
[04:30:51] <Tom_itx> Jymmm i dunno, i might
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[04:31:10] <Tom_itx> -50c - +550C
[04:31:11] <Jymmm> holy shit –50oC to +550oC
[04:31:29] <Tom_itx> its' not very big
[04:31:52] <Jymmm> 1022F works for me =)
[04:31:53] <uw> Tom_itx, do you wish you could get higher spindle speeds too?
[04:32:11] <Tom_itx> uw, yes i recently made a pulley for mine
[04:32:26] <Tom_itx> you can order a high speed pulley but i'm a tight ass
[04:32:39] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: I need to make a heat tunnel, but I'm using a metal trashcan =)
[04:32:52] <Tom_itx> made one then went to the local sewing machine shop and got a different belt
[04:33:14] <Tom_itx> Jymmm i soldered that with silver solder
[04:33:22] <Tom_itx> and not much of it is exposed to the heat
[04:33:50] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/toaster_oven/sensor2.jpg
[04:34:07] <Tom_itx> and used that nylon braided insulated stuff they use inside motors and high temp stuff
[04:34:11] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: I'll get get that hot unless something fubars, no worries. Plus I'm using air instead of direct element
[04:34:16] <Tom_itx> nylon or whatever it is
[04:34:32] <Tom_itx> just to keep the heat off the leads
[04:34:41] <Jymmm> fiberglass coated nickle plated wire
[04:35:12] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/toaster_oven/control_mounted1.jpg
[04:35:16] <uw> ouch these end mill holders are $30 each, not like the collets at $45 for 3
[04:35:17] <Jymmm> (You should see the sample I have of "high temp" wire, rated for 5000F)
[04:35:24] <Tom_itx> i got that white tubing from the local motor rewind shop
[04:35:43] <Jymmm> ah
[04:36:06] <Jymmm> this stuff is $9/ft
[04:36:07] <Tom_itx> it doesn't get hot anyway
[04:36:17] <Tom_itx> i can keep my hand on the top of it the whole time
[04:36:25] <Tom_itx> i insulated it
[04:36:38] <Tom_itx> then wrapped it with a layer of tin
[04:36:42] <Jymmm> Yeah, I dont need the extreme heat levels I needed a few weeks ago.
[04:36:43] <Tom_itx> as you can see in that last pic
[04:37:04] <Tom_itx> helps it heat more uniform too i think
[04:37:49] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: I've since gone a different route, but still need a lower temp "heat source" and controller
[04:38:00] <Tom_itx> if you wanna get some of those boards done i can get you the eagle or gerber files
[04:38:22] <Tom_itx> nothing special about it really except i coated mine with solder
[04:38:50] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: I'm not there yet, and really not setup to mill pcb right now.
[04:39:09] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/toaster_oven/triac2_rev2.jpg
[04:39:13] <Tom_itx> that's the bottom side
[04:39:15] <Jymmm> I might get one of those temp controllers I linked a ways back
[04:39:22] <uw> Tom_itx, also you mentioned a drill chuck. thats what mine came with, but just curious what do you use yours for?
[04:39:25] <Tom_itx> opto triac
[04:39:43] <Tom_itx> uw, all sorts of stuff
[04:40:33] <uw> thats what i'm using now except i dont have the ke
[04:40:34] <uw> y
[04:40:58] <Tom_itx> time to sleep here.
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[04:41:19] <uw> alright farewell Tom_itx
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[06:46:38] <DJ9DJ> moin
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[06:52:14] <micges> hi
[06:58:13] <bostjan_2> hello!
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[08:12:23] <admin__> has anyone configured linuxcnc with chinese CNC mill - TS 2518B
[08:12:33] <admin__> looking for pointers on setup
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[09:14:48] <admin__> can anyone please provide pointers to setting up linuxcnc with a chinese mill...
[09:15:21] <admin__> its got TonsenCNC drive
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[09:20:56] <archivist> admin__, you need to ask more specific questions
[09:22:08] <admin__> ok
[09:23:05] <admin__> I have a cnc mill with tonsen CNC boards. I have been trying to locate Driver settings for linuxCNC ... but havent met with much success
[09:23:41] <awallin> does it come with any schematics at all ? :)
[09:23:42] <admin__> i need Step time/Step Space / Direction hold / direction setup / port base address
[09:23:45] <admin__> nop
[09:24:03] <admin__> it runs out of the box with mach 3...
[09:24:14] <admin__> so im guessing the default settings there are OK
[09:24:29] <awallin> the stepper configs for linuxcnc should work then?
[09:24:41] <admin__> not much success
[09:25:03] <admin__> if i run with all default settings, the spindle motor starts running and does not stop
[09:25:22] <awallin> there might be differences between a defalt mach3 pinout and the linuxcnc stepper pinout
[09:25:51] <admin__> aaah. ok
[09:26:08] <admin__> so its a parallel port pinout issue then?
[09:26:20] <admin__> *parallel port setup
[09:26:51] <awallin> probably, if you can check with a scope or multimeter that you get step/dir signals on the parport with linuxcnc
[09:27:40] <admin__> can do that...
[09:28:06] <admin__> but could nt I just find Mach3's default parallel port pinout and use that for linuxCNC?
[09:28:41] <awallin> this might be mach3 pinout http://www.piclist.com/images/member/RB-ezy-Q33/MACH3PortsnPins.jpg
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[09:30:10] <awallin> if you look in standard_pinout.hal it appears step<->dir are interchanged compared to that mach3 image
[09:30:47] <admin__> yes
[09:30:54] <admin__> Thank you very much
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[10:03:18] <awallin> admin__: any luck with getting the machine going?
[10:10:25] <admin__> im working on it... should be able to get back to you in about 30 mins...
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[10:21:56] <mrsun> hmm, hacking srs box in the car .... this will be interesting :P
[10:22:00] <mrsun> (thermal fuse has blown)
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[10:28:47] <Valen> wassat do again?
[10:28:52] <Valen> aah airbag
[10:29:01] <Valen> i suggest some caution
[10:29:08] <mrsun> yeah
[10:29:11] <Valen> i also don't hold huge hopes for success
[10:29:25] <Valen> they try and kill themselves if things go wrong
[10:29:29] <mrsun> stupid thermal fuse in them that blows ... do not want to replace the unit if im not sure the short to ground problem is gone :/
[10:29:45] <mrsun> aparently it has been shorted to ground before this fuse blows
[10:29:57] <Valen> fair enough
[10:30:04] <mrsun> and its replaceable with some soldering skills for like $1 .. compared to buying a new unit
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[10:30:41] <Valen> I just know most of them if the module detects anything wrong it'll mark itself as busted and even if you fix the problem it won't actually work anymore
[10:31:00] <mrsun> stupid people before me had taped over the lamp ... and now the laws has changed and it needs to be operational when checked
[10:31:33] <mrsun> Valen, aparently not from what i read, atleast not in this car .. "the module can be used several times even if the airbag blows"
[10:31:45] <mrsun> and the airbag has never blown in it
[10:31:51] <mrsun> hopefully it works
[10:31:56] <mrsun> if it doesnt ... well i did try atleast :P
[10:32:18] <Valen> for $1 its worth it ;->
[10:32:22] <mrsun> cant work worse then not working anyways :P
[10:32:38] <mrsun> ok, it could blow up in my face i guess :P
[10:32:48] <mrsun> killing me instantly ... but hell ;P
[10:32:49] <Valen> worst case cut the wire to the bulb, unless they plug an odbII port into it ;->
[10:33:01] <mrsun> Valen, not valid when in for checking in sweden anymore
[10:33:04] <mrsun> new law from january
[10:33:09] <mrsun> need to do a 555 hack on the lamp
[10:33:15] <mrsun> so it lights up for 7 seconds then go dark
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[10:33:18] <Valen> not valid perhaps, but how would they know
[10:33:19] <Valen> oh
[10:33:24] <Valen> well that sucks lol
[10:33:34] <mrsun> Valen, well we need to check our vehicles every year in this country :P
[10:33:40] <Valen> we do that here
[10:33:40] <mrsun> for safety reasons =)
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[10:33:45] <Valen> well in theory at least
[10:34:02] <Valen> last time my mechanic "certified" my car, it was about 50Km from him lol
[10:34:26] <Valen> but its ok, "he" replaced the brake pads and fluid and fixed an oil leak from the rocker cover
[10:34:53] <Valen> (ey if i can fix his computer from here, he can fix my car from there.... right? ;->)
[10:35:11] <mrsun> =)
[10:36:07] <mrsun> alot more fixing to do on the car also :/
[10:36:20] <Valen> I'm actually thinking of finding out whats needed to add the "optional" passenger side airbag to my car
[10:36:21] <mrsun> change oil, filter etc ... rust .... breakes failing in the rear
[10:36:30] <Valen> its 10 years old so theres lots of spares now
[10:36:34] <mrsun> but if i cant fix this airbag problem its useless to fix everything else :P
[10:36:51] <Valen> bigass cap and a resistor? ;->
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[11:26:08] <admin__> awallin cant get the x and z axis setup... the y axis and spindle seem to be responding
[11:26:34] <admin__> awallin: cant get the x and z axis setup... the y axis and spindle seem to be respondin
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[11:37:34] <jthornton-2> admin__, is there a xml setup file provided by the maker of your mill for mack
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[11:40:15] <heathmanc> So, I've ordered a mesa 5I25 and a 7I99 to drive some allen bradley ultra 3000 and AB motors, any expected issues with the AB drives closing the pid and EMC2 closing the pid?
[11:40:43] <heathmanc> or would I be better suited getting some h-bridges and different motors
[11:46:22] <jthornton> what is a 7i99?
[11:46:40] <heathmanc> It's an analog output card made by mesa
[11:46:57] <micges> maybe 7i33?
[11:47:07] <heathmanc> lol, i meant 7i77
[11:47:21] <jthornton> ok that is better
[11:47:30] <heathmanc> got a little carried away
[11:47:39] <jthornton> are the AB drives velocity input?
[11:47:53] <jthornton> ie +-10v
[11:48:13] <heathmanc> yes they are
[11:48:20] <heathmanc> they will take step/dir also
[11:48:27] <heathmanc> or current
[11:49:47] <jthornton> I've started a crappy little page for getting 5i25's up and going here http://gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/configs/index.html
[11:50:14] <heathmanc> good deal
[11:50:29] <heathmanc> any experience with a 5i20 and 7i33? I'm considering that route also
[11:50:38] <heathmanc> the 5i25 is on backorder
[11:50:52] <heathmanc> really, just looking for the most tried/reliable option
[11:51:16] <jthornton> yes, my CHNC is running a 5i20 7i33 7isomething I/O card
[11:51:27] <jthornton> I'd wait on the 5i25
[11:51:55] <jthornton> I have 2 5i25's one on a stepper and one on a servo machine
[11:52:11] <heathmanc> I've got time, I'm in Afghanistan for a couple more months
[11:52:21] <heathmanc> i've been using mach3 and really want to move over
[11:52:42] <micges> most tried is 5i20 + 7i33 but 5i25 + 7i77 is working the same
[11:52:43] <jthornton> Thanks for serving your country
[11:52:43] <heathmanc> i have a bunch of galil equipment that would be great to use, if emc supported it, but it's probably gonna end up on a shelf
[11:53:10] <heathmanc> thank you
[11:53:51] <heathmanc> this is probably all overkill, it's going on a little taig mill with 270 watt servos, but I am stationed in Japan and don't have room for a big machine
[11:54:03] <jthornton> my nephew is in a Marine group over there now
[11:54:11] <heathmanc> Awesome
[11:54:16] <heathmanc> well not awesome being over here
[11:54:33] <heathmanc> But you get my drift
[11:54:40] <jthornton> no, hopefully the packages make it a bit easier to chew
[11:54:44] <jthornton> yea
[11:55:16] <jthornton> that taig ought to sing with that much power
[11:56:00] <heathmanc> just what I had, didn't want to put much money in additional equipment into it, it is just a hobby
[11:56:22] <heathmanc> just want something accurate and reliable
[11:56:25] <jthornton> that's what we do down here in Swamp East Missouri too
[11:56:28] <jthornton> make it work
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[11:58:08] <heathmanc> the AB drives are rated up to 500watts, plan the system on a bigger machine someday
[12:00:47] <heathmanc> i've briefly read the configuration with the 5i25, appears to not be greatly complicated, have AB power supplies, 5v,12v,24v
[12:01:00] <heathmanc> and the servos have brakes
[12:01:22] <jthornton> I'd use 24v for the I/O and get the logic power from the parallel cable
[12:01:39] <jthornton> are the brakes controlled by the drive?
[12:01:53] <heathmanc> that's the plan, but the 5v will already in the control cabinet, so may get the power from it
[12:02:07] <heathmanc> the brakes are controlled by the drives
[12:02:20] <heathmanc> but i got external relays and flyback diodes for them
[12:02:58] <heathmanc> i'm really all new to this, i've screwed around with mach3 slightly
[12:03:45] <jthornton> I tried it once too, never could get it to work right
[12:04:21] <heathmanc> i really wanted the true closed loop, that's why i'm giving up on it, the galil has plugins for mach3, but i'm not impressed
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[12:06:16] <jthornton> do the servos have encoders for feedback to the controller in addition to something to feedback to the drive?
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[12:06:45] <heathmanc> the drive will send out an buffered, unbuffered, or interpolated output
[12:07:00] <heathmanc> so the drive will feed the signals to the 7i99
[12:07:10] <heathmanc> the encoders on the servos are 128 sin/cos
[12:07:27] <heathmanc> but the drive will put out a differential signal
[12:07:35] <jthornton> that is best
[12:07:52] <jthornton> sounds like your set then
[12:08:03] <heathmanc> the encoder count to the drive can be up to 131072 counts
[12:08:15] <heathmanc> and i can send that count to the 7i99 also
[12:08:24] <heathmanc> but will probably knock it down quite a bit
[12:08:30] <jthornton> you like 7i99 I see
[12:08:36] <heathmanc> 7i77
[12:08:47] <heathmanc> don't know what my obsession is with it
[12:08:52] <jthornton> yes you will need to send the encoder output from the drive to the 7i77 to close the loop
[12:09:04] <heathmanc> right, but not at 131072 counts
[12:09:23] <jthornton> I don't understand
[12:09:59] <heathmanc> the encoders feed the drives 131072 counts per revolution, the drive can divide that on the output side to the 7i77
[12:10:57] <heathmanc> so i can divide that by 16 and send 8192, i'm not sure how the 7i77 interprets that, whether it wants to then multiply that by 4
[12:12:06] <jthornton> you set the scale in LinuxCNC to how many pulses it takes to move one user unit
[12:12:41] <heathmanc> right, just not sure what's suitable
[12:12:58] <heathmanc> i don't need the 131072
[12:13:11] <jthornton> I put in a panasonic system yesterday that had 1,048,688 pulses per rev :)
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[12:13:27] <heathmanc> with a 1024 sin/cos encoder
[12:13:28] <jthornton> not with LinuxCNC but a plc controlled system
[12:13:48] <heathmanc> i was originally looking for a plc system, and really wanted to go that route
[12:13:55] <jthornton> the more counts the better
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[12:14:13] <jthornton> for CNC a plc is not a good fit
[12:14:20] <heathmanc> if the 7i77 can read them in that fast
[12:14:26] <heathmanc> i was looking at gsk type panels
[12:14:38] <jthornton> plc's are good for doing the same thing over and over
[12:15:33] <heathmanc> i'm set on emc2 now, played with it in a virtual machine for a bit since i'm on a mac
[12:15:44] <jthornton> I asked PCW once and made a note as to how fast the 7i77 could read encoder pulses... but I don't remember exactly but it is fast
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[12:16:38] <heathmanc> probably as fast as i would need on a tiny machine..
[12:16:48] <heathmanc> 20tpi screw
[12:16:53] <heathmanc> direct drive
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[12:17:38] <heathmanc> i've been collecting equipment forever, but have never had a machine
[12:17:52] <heathmanc> have a bunch of mitsubishi j2s 400 watt motors/drives
[12:18:03] <heathmanc> 5 different galil cards
[12:18:15] <heathmanc> and a bunch of AB stuff
[12:18:21] <heathmanc> yet, no machine.. lol
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[12:20:19] <heathmanc> Work has kept me busy, but I will make it around to the hobby eventually
[12:20:47] <Jymmm> pre or post death?
[12:21:19] <heathmanc> well, hopefully in october.. I'll be back and safe for a year
[12:21:29] <jthornton> cool
[12:21:31] <Jymmm> =)
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[12:21:56] <heathmanc> until then, i'll probably just collect more junk
[12:21:59] <jthornton> Jymmm, are you an xml/xsl guru?
[12:22:34] <jthornton> it's not junk... that's what I tell my wife
[12:22:39] <Jymmm> jthornton: what be the question?
[12:23:08] <heathmanc> lol, I tell my wife the same thing.. but it's beginning to look like a cnc junkyard
[12:23:12] <heathmanc> or a treasure trove
[12:23:13] <jthornton> we need a xsl to convert the mack xsl file to stepconf lingo
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[12:25:33] <Jymmm> jthornton: I''m probably of no use to ya there, sorry
[12:25:43] <jthornton> ok
[12:26:08] <Jymmm> jthornton: when you say stepconf lingo, do you have an exampe of to/from?
[12:26:08] <samkan> how can i use emc2 for engraving?
[12:26:53] <Jymmm> jthornton: Cause xsl is basically a stylesheet for xml..
[12:26:58] <heathmanc> samkan, you need a program that will generate gcode
[12:27:03] <jthornton> best way I know of is to use ArcEye's engrave
[12:27:37] <heathmanc> vcarve works great
[12:27:53] <samkan> is that opensource one?
[12:28:03] <samkan> i am looking for opensource one...
[12:28:13] <jthornton> it's a multi line engraver based on Lawerance's Engrave
[12:28:17] <jthornton> http://linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/component/kunena/?func=view&catid=20&id=20816#21169
[12:28:32] <heathmanc> arceye is i believe
[12:28:39] <Jymmm> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezc6H78p-Uo&feature=channel&list=UL http://home.comcast.net/~sskroch/Fengrave/fengrave.html
[12:28:41] <samkan> ok, let me see
[12:29:07] <Jymmm> samkan: videos http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezc6H78p-Uo&feature=channel&list=UL download http://home.comcast.net/~sskroch/Fengrave/fengrave.html
[12:30:14] <samkan> ok, thanks a lot, let me try, will be back soon
[12:30:19] <Jymmm> jthornton: when you say stepconf lingo, do you have an exampe of to/from?
[12:30:32] <Jymmm> mostly the to
[12:31:35] <jthornton> http://linuxcnc.org/docview/html/config/stepconf.html#_parallel_port_setup_a_id_sec_parallel_port_setup_a
[12:32:44] <Jymmm> jthornton: I dont see any code there?
[12:32:54] <jthornton> the picture
[12:34:01] <Jymmm> you want an xsl that will take an xml and create that image?
[12:34:18] <Jymmm> image/layout?
[12:34:20] <heathmanc> what is the appropriate post processor for emc in visualmill. there is a sherline-in and a sherline-mm, is there a more generalized one?
[12:34:49] <jthornton> no I just want to convert http://cnc4pc.com/Files/C1_REV10_1.xml so it will read out like the screen
[12:35:55] <jthornton> so in the xml it has <Motor0DirPin>3</Motor0DirPin> and display Pin 3: X Direction
[12:37:17] <jthornton> anyway I have to run now
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[12:45:22] <Jymmm> TML: do you happen to know how to create an XSL to create a layout like this: http://linuxcnc.org/docview/html/config/images/stepconf-pinout.png from this XML file: http://cnc4pc.com/Files/C1_REV10_1.xml Example: <Motor0DirPin>3</Motor0DirPin> would become "Pin 3: X Direction", <Motor1DirPin>5</Motor1DirPin> would become "Pin 8: Y Direction", etc ?
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[13:09:51] <heathmanc> still can't solve this internal dillema.. mesa 5i20 and 7i48, or 5i25 and 7i77
[13:11:48] <cradek> the 5i20+7i48 system is more likely to be trouble-free as the support for those is older and more stable
[13:13:10] <heathmanc> that's probably what i'm more interested in
[13:13:18] <heathmanc> don't need to be cutting edge, just want to be cutting
[13:13:59] <heathmanc> and that will take the 24v field i/o also i'm assuming
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[13:14:31] <cradek> you need to add a 7i37 (or opto22 or whatever) for handling 24v
[13:15:58] <heathmanc> ok, the only thing i need the 24v for is the enables
[13:16:17] <heathmanc> so the 7i37 it is
[13:16:56] <cradek> I can virtually promise you'll find more uses for extra I/O than you immediately think of
[13:17:07] <heathmanc> i'm sure I will
[13:18:01] <heathmanc> and that pairing of the 3 cards is fairly tried and true?
[13:18:52] <cradek> the most tried and true would be 5i20+7i33+7i37 which has been aruond for many years, but I think the 7i48 has been around for a full major version and had only one bug found (fixed) in that time
[13:19:15] <cradek> you really will be fine with them
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[13:21:18] <heathmanc> Ok, sent Lily my order for the 5i20/7i48/7i37-ta
[13:21:51] <heathmanc> the 5i25 was on backorder, and i'm only going to be home for a couple weeks and need something to play with
[13:22:18] <Jymmm> wife/gf/husband/bf ???
[13:22:45] <heathmanc> who, lily? the gal who works at mesa?
[13:23:08] <Jymmm> No, what I'd be "playing with" if I was only home for two weeks =)
[13:23:28] <heathmanc> lol, gotcha... she's got family to see also. We haven't been home in 5 years
[13:23:44] <heathmanc> i've been shipping this equipment to my dad's house so I would have something to do on r&r
[13:23:52] <Jymmm> =)
[13:24:34] <heathmanc> and I'm taking my son up to six flags in st. louis too
[13:24:39] <heathmanc> so i won't have a ton of playtime
[13:25:13] <Jymmm> That's NOT what she wants to hear
[13:25:43] <heathmanc> lol, I really don't plan on getting much cnc'ing done
[13:25:57] <heathmanc> i just want to see it all, put it in a box, and ship it to japan
[13:26:04] <Jymmm> Is THAT what the kids are calling it these days.
[13:26:10] <Jymmm> Gotcha ;)
[13:26:46] <Jymmm> "...I'll be here all week" (you've been warned!)
[13:28:49] <Jymmm> For those of you that always wanted an iPod but said "you want WHAT for an mp3 player?!" http://www.dealextreme.com/p/appa-imeter-5-1-7-lcd-card-type-digital-multimeter-2-x-lr44-66806
[13:29:23] <heathmanc> lol, even when i leave here for good, we are moving to england, so it will be a while before i get much done
[13:29:33] <heathmanc> but at least i'll be somewhere i can find some big iron to convert
[13:29:43] <Jymmm> from where?
[13:29:55] <heathmanc> moving from okinawa
[13:30:05] <heathmanc> moving to lakenheath, around thetford
[13:31:06] <Jymmm> your leaving jp for uk.... ARE YOU NUTS?! Do you like sunless damp arreas?!
[13:31:15] <heathmanc> actually yes...
[13:31:27] <Jymmm> you sick bastard!
[13:31:29] <heathmanc> i've been in japan for the last 5 years, time for a change
[13:31:44] <heathmanc> too damn hot down there, love the beaches, but i spend more time out here in the sand
[13:31:49] <Jymmm> goto AU for a change =)
[13:32:09] <heathmanc> I would love to
[13:32:36] <heathmanc> I'm a helicopter crew chief, we don't go many cool places
[13:32:36] <Jymmm> well, yo're on the right side of the pond at least for now
[13:32:59] <heathmanc> lol, I'm currently in Afghanistan, the wrong place totally
[13:33:17] <Jymmm> well, dont you need to extensively test those extended fuel tanks?
[13:33:37] <heathmanc> can only fly about 4 hours on the extended tanks.. not gonna get far
[13:33:45] <heathmanc> we do load them up in c-17 and c-5 and take them places though
[13:34:00] <Jymmm> ok, the exteneded extended experimental tanks
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[13:34:51] <Jymmm> the fuel barge tethered system =)
[13:34:58] <heathmanc> exactly
[13:35:05] <heathmanc> certainly more comfortable
[13:35:47] <heathmanc> still need a pc for the emc setup
[13:35:57] <heathmanc> any recommendations? i like things on the industrial side
[13:36:47] <Jymmm> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813121442
[13:36:49] <Jymmm> PCI
[13:37:52] <Jymmm> PCIe 1x slot but DC 8-19V, no PC PS http://www.mini-box.com/Intel-DN2800MT-Mini-ITX-Motherboard
[13:38:01] <Jymmm> and only 3/4" tall
[13:38:25] <Jymmm> both have bee used and show low latency
[13:38:28] <Jymmm> been
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[13:40:04] <heathmanc> well, will have to be the first one for the pci
[13:40:14] <heathmanc> or guess i could get an adapter
[13:40:18] <heathmanc> probably not a lot of sense
[13:40:43] <heathmanc> and fanless, i like that
[13:42:16] <Jymmm> heathmanc: teathered =) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=im1iNq02Kz0
[13:42:55] <heathmanc> i've seen this video.. and the one where things haven't gone so well
[13:43:07] <heathmanc> I think it would be a blast
[13:43:41] <Jymmm> They have them for rent out at Lake Havasu, They just watch the girls lose their bikini tops and bottoms
[13:45:14] <heathmanc> Sounds like i need to take a trip
[13:45:52] <Jymmm> JP to US to UK, sounds like a plan to me. You would get here almost a the perfect time
[13:46:36] <heathmanc> i'm just headed to the us for two weeks, then right back to the stan
[13:46:54] <heathmanc> don't leave here for good until october
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[13:47:11] <Jymmm> there ya go =)
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[13:51:00] <Jymmm> Man I love this flashlight, but do I REALLY need another one?????
[13:51:29] <Jymmm> http://www.dealextreme.com/p/ultrafire-th-t60-ha-ii-xm-lt60-5-mode-1200-lumen-white-led-flashlight-with-strap-1-x-18650-57007
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[13:55:14] <Jymmm> heathmanc: you are setting up a mill? mini-mill?
[13:55:34] <heathmanc> this is on a taig mill
[13:55:51] <heathmanc> i've got a round column in storage, but i'm looking out for a 9x42
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[13:57:15] <Jymmm> heathmanc: They dont seem to have these in UK. http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/20169658/
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[13:57:50] <heathmanc> lol, we don't even have ikea in okinawa, it's a mainland thing
[13:58:11] <Jymmm> heathmanc: You can remove the weighted base and there are two screws. It's powered from a 120VAC to 4.5VDC included adapter.
[13:58:25] <Jymmm> perfect for mounting on your mill
[13:58:46] <heathmanc> i stop in tokyo after this tour, may have to check one out
[13:59:22] <Jymmm> the base is just a plastic convered piece of concrete, so you could chuck that
[13:59:52] <Jymmm> There is one what is on a spring clip, but I dont knowthe details on it.
[14:00:04] <Jymmm> http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/80169636/
[14:00:40] <Jymmm> the one with the base is 20 or 24" long
[14:00:52] <Jymmm> 24"
[14:01:27] <heathmanc> and led, can't go wrong there
[14:01:37] <Jymmm> I love the thing
[14:01:51] <Jymmm> puts light right where you want it
[14:02:06] <heathmanc> i've got a flood coolant setup for the taig, may have to find a way to get one of these inside the workspace
[14:02:11] <Jymmm> the spring clip one is only 16"
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[14:37:59] <heathmanc> i really need a bigger machine
[14:38:33] <archivist> the bigger the better
[14:38:52] <Jymmm> helicopter engines make great cnc motors =)
[14:38:59] <archivist> but for tiny work a small machine is ok
[14:39:10] <heathmanc> lol, it's really small, but it's what i have room for
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[15:16:13] <Loetmichel> heathmanc: smaller than mine?
[15:17:01] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12811
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[15:26:26] <heathmanc> Ok, not much bigger than that.
[15:26:39] <heathmanc> How is the chinese spindle? I'm looking at putting one on the taig.
[15:27:30] <Loetmichel> its great
[15:27:48] <Loetmichel> but io hear recently a bit of nouse at certain temperatures/RPM
[15:28:01] <Loetmichel> maybe oone of the head bball bearings re not the best fit
[15:28:43] <Loetmichel> but untiol no0w: no play that i could measure, and lower than 1/100mm runout if i belive my dieal
[15:28:48] <heathmanc> i'm really torn on that topic
[15:29:05] <heathmanc> is that an 800 watt?
[15:29:05] <Loetmichel> but its just the small 800W spindle watercooled
[15:29:10] <Loetmichel> was cheap though
[15:29:10] <heathmanc> ok
[15:29:21] <heathmanc> how much time do you think you have on it?
[15:29:32] <Loetmichel> about 50 to 100 hzrs
[15:29:42] <Loetmichel> but only half of that at full RPM
[15:30:14] <heathmanc> ok
[15:30:35] <Loetmichel> sorry, have to sort out my fingers again... the lag over the VNC connection home isnt make the typos any better ;-)
[15:30:48] <heathmanc> lol
[15:30:49] <Loetmichel> making
[15:31:09] <heathmanc> are you controlling the spindle with emc?
[15:31:36] <Loetmichel> not now, was to lazy to put in a RC-filter aon a free port pin
[15:31:47] <Loetmichel> 'til now i am controlling it manually
[15:31:56] <heathmanc> ok
[15:31:56] <Loetmichel> bur can do, if i find some time ;-)
[15:32:00] <Loetmichel> but
[15:32:51] <heathmanc> what kind of materials are you cutting on that setup?
[15:33:06] <Loetmichel> have to house the electronics on the back of the mill anyway, its not so good out in the open...
[15:33:25] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12808
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[15:37:39] <heathmanc> what are you using as the motor driver?
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[15:42:39] <Loetmichel> heathmanc: the green board there, a 3dStep from www.mechapro.de
[15:42:55] <heathmanc> ok
[15:42:55] <Loetmichel> 3 channel L297/298 board
[15:43:01] <heathmanc> gotcha
[15:43:08] <heathmanc> what about the vfd?
[15:43:18] <Loetmichel> was delivered with the sindle
[15:43:21] <Loetmichel> spindle
[15:43:22] <heathmanc> ok
[15:43:26] <Loetmichel> as a package
[15:43:34] <heathmanc> sorry for all the questions.. i just like knowing setups
[15:44:09] <Loetmichel> np, but i want to go home... cu in half an hor
[15:44:12] <Loetmichel> hour
[15:44:24] <heathmanc> lol, ok
[15:45:46] <skunkworks> logger[mah]
[15:45:46] <logger[mah]> skunkworks: Log stored at http://linuxcnc.mah.priv.at/irc/%23linuxcnc/2012-06-21.html
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[15:58:51] <heathmanc> my lucky day, 5i20/7i48/7i37-ta all in stock and paid for
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[16:01:29] <jthornton> did you order the 50 pin cables?
[16:02:46] <heathmanc> yes, two of them
[16:02:51] <heathmanc> 6 footers
[16:04:34] <heathmanc> more expensive than the 5i25 route, but it's in stock, and it will be everything i need
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[16:10:08] <jthornton> is the 7i48 supported by hostmot2?
[16:10:18] <skunkworks> yex
[16:10:20] <skunkworks> yes
[16:10:26] <jthornton> cool
[16:10:49] <skunkworks> I am using a 7i33 and 7i48 on the K&T (2 5i20's)
[16:11:07] <heathmanc> is it working out well for you?
[16:11:11] <skunkworks> yes
[16:11:13] <heathmanc> i haven't used a mesa product yet
[16:11:19] <jthornton> I couldn't remember off hand
[16:11:35] <skunkworks> very well made and with linuxcnc - very flexable...
[16:12:06] <heathmanc> i won't be putting it to very good use
[16:12:13] <heathmanc> or using much of it's flexibility
[16:12:27] <heathmanc> simple 3 axis, diff encoders, spindle control
[16:12:56] <skunkworks> heathmanc: used up pretty much all the i/o of 2 mesa 5i20 cards... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39q6kvrSBSk&list=UUHk52YjGT8HryRYmJKSl-lg&index=9&feature=plcp
[16:13:40] <heathmanc> trying to check it out.. on a 128k in afghanistan... youtube doesn't work too great
[16:13:49] <skunkworks> oh - sorry.
[16:14:05] <heathmanc> it will buffer for awhile and i will definitely watch it
[16:14:44] <skunkworks> heathmanc: we converted a late 60's vintage NC. http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/oldkandt.JPG
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[16:15:01] <Loetmichel> re @ home
[16:15:34] <skunkworks> heathmanc: electrical box... http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/conversion/panel/electricalbox.jpg
[16:16:00] <skunkworks> it started out pretty organized... then got a bit messy.
[16:16:23] <heathmanc> lol, quite the contraption
[16:16:29] <skunkworks> computer with 2 mesa cards in upper right
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[16:18:05] <skunkworks> 8kw peak servos.. ;) so - as you can see - linuxcnc is very scalable..
[16:18:11] <heathmanc> awesome
[16:18:38] <heathmanc> i'm excited to really use it.. cnc has been a dream of mine for about 6 years
[16:18:42] <heathmanc> just never got around to it
[16:19:01] <skunkworks> It is nice to have.. :)
[16:19:10] <heathmanc> got some galil stuff, looked at camsoft
[16:19:28] <heathmanc> i think i'm going the right way
[16:19:40] <skunkworks> linuxcnc doesn't need that stuff. (external motion hardware)
[16:19:46] <heathmanc> right
[16:19:58] <heathmanc> i got a great deal on a lot of ethernet controlled galil stuff
[16:20:05] <heathmanc> couldn't pass it up, was going the mach3 route
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[16:20:40] <skunkworks> from what I have heard - camsoft is hard to setup and expensive.
[16:20:54] <heathmanc> very expensive.. wouldn't know about the setup because you can't try it out
[16:21:02] <heathmanc> was going to use it with some mitsubishi equipment
[16:21:12] <skunkworks> mach works with some galil stuff - but not very flexable.
[16:21:25] <jthornton> heathmanc, what do Marines need/like to receive over there from home in the large flat rate boxes
[16:21:27] <heathmanc> i tried the plugin with just the card.. wasn't friendly at all
[16:21:57] <heathmanc> oh man, just about anything.. tuna packets, gum, kleenex
[16:22:06] <jthornton> fofm
[16:22:14] <jthornton> didn't think of tuna or gum
[16:22:22] <heathmanc> it could be a box packing peanuts and guys are happy
[16:22:35] <skunkworks> heathmanc: once you get the hang of linuxcnc - you will see solutions for every problem you have.. ;) gun turrets? ;)
[16:22:47] <heathmanc> this time of the year, hankerchiefs
[16:22:47] <jthornton> I've sent monster drinks, baby wipes, hard candy, bacon flavored popcorn etc
[16:23:07] <heathmanc> that's awesome, and greatly appreciated
[16:23:17] <jthornton> camo color?
[16:23:19] <heathmanc> lol@gun turrets
[16:23:37] <heathmanc> yeah, camo color, or just tan, or black, or green
[16:23:38] <ReadError> ide sent some that have the lower half as a skull
[16:23:51] <heathmanc> the dust is bad this time of year
[16:24:02] <ReadError> http://www.amazon.com/Skull-Bandana-Motorccle-Face-Mask/dp/B001K7TZ6C
[16:24:05] <jthornton> ok thanks I'll pick some up for the next box
[16:24:26] <heathmanc> getting harder to get away with wearing stuff like that.. the rules are getting more restrictive
[16:25:24] <heathmanc> i work directly with afghans, so there aren't a ton of rules.. but for the rest of the forces in garrison, it's another story
[16:25:35] <jthornton> I usually fill the bottom of the box with monster drinks and the top with other things
[16:26:33] <heathmanc> that's great! energy drinks are always a big deal
[16:26:51] <heathmanc> skunkworks: what kind of things do you do with that K&T
[16:26:56] <jthornton> thanks for the heads up
[16:27:10] <jthornton> any thing he wants it's big enough to machine a car from a block
[16:27:33] <heathmanc> lol
[16:27:55] <heathmanc> well, if people are like me, they would just do it because the could, and not have any real plans with it
[16:29:36] <skunkworks> heh - mostly odd jobs. (and lots of projects for myself..)
[16:29:56] <skunkworks> but we are in the middle of a bathroom remodel so the work has slowed
[16:30:18] <heathmanc> where does this machine sit?
[16:30:34] <skunkworks> ? WI?
[16:30:40] <heathmanc> lol, garage?
[16:30:55] <skunkworks> oh - 40X80 pole building
[16:31:05] <skunkworks> the 'shop'
[16:31:32] <heathmanc> nice size building.. i built a 30x30 steel pole building with my father
[16:31:38] <heathmanc> that was a task..
[16:31:46] <skunkworks> we have a bunch of manual mills and lathes. some grinders and such. we have a large cincinati nc lathe that will be the next conversion
[16:32:03] <heathmanc> is this a machine shop?
[16:32:30] <skunkworks> sort of. some people have boats...
[16:33:12] <skunkworks> it is mainly keeps my dad out of trouble in retirement. ;)
[16:33:28] <heathmanc> sounds perfect
[16:33:38] <skunkworks> Hi dad!
[16:35:35] <heathmanc> was the toolchanger setup with the mesa a pain?
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[17:02:44] <IchGuckLive> Hi all
[17:02:52] <heathmanc> Hello
[17:03:04] <IchGuckLive> B)
[17:08:23] <IchGuckLive> a questiion as icant find it somwhere the Rotory tables ABC can not be set to a serten diameter on witch the Velocity is calculated on
[17:08:57] <IchGuckLive> if i do moves qwith liniar and rotary it is TRUE to be finished at the same point
[17:09:30] <IchGuckLive> but if i rotate the axis A-C alone on witch is the velocity calculated
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[17:10:07] <IchGuckLive> 10inch diameter needs a other calculation then 1 inch at 300mm/min
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[17:17:39] <skunkworks> heathmanc: the tool changer was done in linuxcncs ladder logic. (it was a challenge..)
[17:18:00] <heathmanc> i bet
[17:18:58] <skunkworks> IchGuckLive: normally - you would use inverse time...
[17:20:44] <skunkworks> heathmanc: the gearshift (spindle has a 16 speed hydralicly controled gearbox) was done within linuxcncs' Comp. It is a C like language that lets you create realtime componants. I probably could have also done that in ladder logic - but I could wrap my head around it programically
[17:21:02] <skunkworks> (or non realtime componants)
[17:21:32] <heathmanc> definitely beyond my comprehension
[17:22:09] <skunkworks> heh - same here. ;)
[17:22:42] <heathmanc> i've got a 4x4 router i'm working on after this small project.. i have everything for it almost
[17:23:12] <heathmanc> except some a/c servo drives.. the rails i am using had sanyo denki motors/drives, but the drives are some proprietary things
[17:24:07] <skunkworks> IchGuckLive: as I understand it - rotory only movements the feed is in deg/min. mixed rotory and linear - the linear moves are done in mm/min and the rotorys are calculated to start and stop within the linear moves.
[17:25:09] <skunkworks> heathmanc: you might be able to replace the drives.. The BLDC componant in linuxcnc can run most brushless motors.
[17:25:46] <skunkworks> (and mesa sells drives..) ;)
[17:25:50] <heathmanc> i am going to replace them, just don't know with what yet.. finding the ac drives isn't as easy as one would thing
[17:25:55] <skunkworks> depends on the requirement
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[17:26:04] <heathmanc> they are 400 watt motors, mesas products are a little big for 400 watt ac motors
[17:27:17] <skunkworks> heh
[17:27:37] <heathmanc> could just put some dc motors on there i supposed and scrap the ones already there
[17:28:30] <skunkworks> do you know what is on the servos? encoders, comutation?
[17:28:50] <heathmanc> encoders, but they have to come off, it's a sanyo absolute encoder abs-ii
[17:29:11] <heathmanc> something non-standard.. have no idea how to interface it
[17:29:21] <skunkworks> yeck
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[17:29:47] <heathmanc> tell me about it.. the motors seem really nice, part of a hirata system, just of no use to me at the moment
[17:30:04] <skunkworks> I think linuxcnc could do it with just a encoder with index... but it would have to spin to find the index initally...
[17:30:18] <heathmanc> they were part of these rails i'm using, i had no real use for the motors anyhow
[17:30:25] <skunkworks> ah
[17:31:10] <heathmanc> i will probably find some more AB motors, i have amps for them.. and toss these
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[17:32:10] <heathmanc> will linux cnc allow me to run a two servo gantry?
[17:32:37] <heathmanc> a master/slave axis
[17:32:44] <skunkworks> Yes - I know people are doing it. (but it seems like everyone does it differently...)
[17:32:51] <heathmanc> the ab drives i'm using have a follower mode
[17:33:02] <heathmanc> but if linuxcnc will do it, i would rather let it control it
[17:33:23] <skunkworks> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?GantryPlasmaMachine
[17:33:26] <IchGuckLive> skunkworks: Thanks
[17:34:38] <heathmanc> thanks for the link
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[18:34:10] <heathmanc> Ok, how is the 24v hooked up to the 7i37-ta? it's not like the other cards with a field i/o terminal
[18:36:19] <heathmanc> guess i probably didn't really need the 7i37 card, looks like i can use a the enable directly on the 7i48 with 24v
[18:36:44] <andypugh> It is an isloated IO board, so each input and output is separate.
[18:37:13] <andypugh> Which means that each IO channel can use a different voltage and ground reference, if required.
[18:37:56] <heathmanc> whereas on the 7i48, they enables are all switched at once with a single reference?
[18:38:14] <andypugh> So, to switch a 24V relay you could connect 24V to OUT0+ connect one side of the relay to OUT0- and then connect the other side of the relay to ground.
[18:38:53] <andypugh> Or, if you prefer, 24V to one side of the relay, then the other side of the relay to OUT0+ and OUT0- to ground.
[18:39:35] <heathmanc> or for a simple amp enable, 24v to out+ and the ground to out0-
[18:40:45] <andypugh> No, that will just conduct 5mA of current from the PSU to GND without doing anything useful
[18:41:06] <PCW> The 7I48 enable outputs are logically connected (enabled all at once) but electrically isolated
[18:41:08] <PCW> only good for 10 mA or so though
[18:41:18] <heathmanc> right, so it goes to ibit0+ and ibit0- for the input
[18:41:28] <heathmanc> i'm talking using the 7i37ta, sorry
[18:41:55] <andypugh> <steps aside and lets PCW take over>
[18:42:19] <heathmanc> lol... sorry, some terminology on these cards i'm not accustomed to
[18:42:26] <PCW> 7I37TA has completely isolated inputs and outputs (so 2 floating pins each)
[18:42:54] <heathmanc> right, and i want to run the amplifier enables from the 7i37 with a 24v supply
[18:43:52] <PCW> outputs are floating switches so you if you have active high enables you connect one 7I37TA OUT+ to 24V and the OUT- to the drives enable pine
[18:44:03] <PCW> pin
[18:44:06] <andypugh> If the 24V PSU has a common ground to the amplifier to be enabled, then 24V to OUTN+ and then the Amp-enable pin to OUTN-
[18:44:24] <heathmanc> the 24psu does not have a common ground to the amp
[18:45:16] <PCW> so what does the drives enable in - or common connect to?
[18:45:38] <heathmanc> they are allen bradley drives, no internal 24v supply
[18:45:54] <heathmanc> i have an allen bradley 24v supply that i intend to use for the brakes and enable
[18:46:42] <heathmanc> i have no problem running the common from the supply to the drive
[18:46:57] <heathmanc> so all i need is to switch the 24v line in the 7i37
[18:47:00] <andypugh> I think you need to conect the supply 0V to the common/0V on the drive control pins.
[18:47:33] <PCW> In any case the 7I37 outputs are just floating switches and will work just like a mechanical switch (with the exception that you must mind the polarity)
[18:47:41] <andypugh> Otherwise it isn't 24V, it is some random floating voltage as far as the drive sees it.
[18:48:00] <heathmanc> right, think i got it, just wasn't sure how these pins worked
[18:48:33] <andypugh> Think of the outputs as switches and the inputs as light bulbs.
[18:48:40] <PCW> just dont get them backwards (they are always "on" if backwards)
[18:53:48] <heathmanc> so in linuxcnc, on the i/o connector 3 tab just change it to gpio output
[18:54:15] <heathmanc> i'm assuming that's where the 7i37 will connect to.. i don't have the cards in hand
[18:54:31] <heathmanc> and choose the appropriate axis enable
[18:56:08] <heathmanc> it's a lot to take in never having used mesa or linuxcnc
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[19:01:03] <andypugh> You should have the hang of it in no more than 3 years. I am getting there.
[19:02:07] <heathmanc> that's promising....
[19:02:12] <heathmanc> lol
[19:02:32] <andypugh> But that sounds right. I haven't ever used pncconf. (I write HAL files by hand)
[19:07:47] <heathmanc> wow, the i/o connector page for the encoders is a little confusing
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[19:12:43] <heathmanc> i'm assuming these options won't shop up until the card is actually in?
[19:12:59] <heathmanc> show up
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[19:14:36] <andypugh> No, I don't think PNCConf needs hardware to work at all
[19:15:16] <andypugh> The pinout is fixed by the firmware
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[19:16:11] <andypugh> So you get to choose which axis or whatvever the encoder belongs to, and the greyed-out captions change to suit, but you can't make an A channel into a Z channel
[19:16:53] <heathmanc> ok, now which firmware is selected for a 1 7i48 and a 7i37?
[19:17:56] <andypugh> How many servos?
[19:18:14] <heathmanc> 4, xyza
[19:18:32] <andypugh> Do you think you might ever want any steppers?
[19:19:19] <heathmanc> nope, only other thing will be a spindle encoder
[19:20:41] <andypugh> Probably SV12 then
[19:21:17] <andypugh> With 5 encoders and 4 PWMs
[19:21:23] <heathmanc> is there a description of these firmwares anywhere?
[19:21:43] <heathmanc> the spindle output will be here also
[19:21:52] <andypugh> Not that I have ever found, no.
[19:22:51] <heathmanc> with the sv12 firmware selected, i no longer have any gpio options
[19:23:24] <andypugh> You need to go back to the config tab and adjust the number of pwmgens and encoders
[19:23:30] <heathmanc> ok
[19:23:34] <JT-Shop> heathmanc: bandanas like these? http://www.amazon.com/Camouflage-Military-Bandanas-Dozen-Digital/dp/B003VKQX0C/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&qid=1340306521&sr=8-10&keywords=bandana+rothco
[19:24:36] <heathmanc> yup, those would work
[19:24:48] <heathmanc> thanks andy, guess i should have looked at that after i changed the firmware
[19:25:03] <JT-Shop> ok, thanks... nothing local on the shelves except red and blue lol
[19:25:27] <andypugh> You will end up with a bit of a random setup on connector 3
[19:25:53] <heathmanc> looks like it... but connector 2 looks random
[19:25:57] <heathmanc> not sure how it's arranged
[19:26:08] <andypugh> 4 encoders and 4PWMS.
[19:26:28] <andypugh> Each encoder has 3 pins, and each PWM has 3 pins.
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[19:27:18] <andypugh> With the PWMs you get to choose if they are PWM/dir or UP/Down.
[19:27:21] <heathmanc> just trying to figure out what the numbers to the left are referring to
[19:27:31] <andypugh> I am fairly sure you want up/down for a 7i48.
[19:28:45] <andypugh> Bear with me a moment, I have confused myself
[19:29:11] <heathmanc> lol.. i'm bearing
[19:29:40] <andypugh> The 7i48 is a 6-channel card, and the SV12 firmware is only wanting to support 4 channels per connector.
[19:29:52] <heathmanc> that's what it looks like
[19:31:08] <heathmanc> the sv12_2x7i48_72 looks more reasonable
[19:31:10] <JT-Shop> skunkworks: used that one on the K&T
[19:32:03] <heathmanc> it looks right, connector 2 has 0-5 encoders.. they are labeled muxed encoder
[19:32:19] <andypugh> heathmanc: Ah. Yes.
[19:32:26] <andypugh> That mentions the 7i48, you see.
[19:32:42] <andypugh> I didn't have that on my VM
[19:32:47] <andypugh> Yes, use that.
[19:32:49] <heathmanc> but there isn't a 5th pwm
[19:32:58] <heathmanc> oh yes there is
[19:33:05] <heathmanc> some reason 6 encoders, 5 pwm
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[19:33:24] <andypugh> You might as well enable 6 encoders and 6PWM, you can always ignore them. The extra encoder can be set up as a jogwheel.
[19:33:35] <heathmanc> ok
[19:33:58] <andypugh> Which FPGA board do you have?
[19:34:04] <heathmanc> 5i20
[19:34:33] <heathmanc> so, all of the greyed out items are what? predefined axis?
[19:34:56] <heathmanc> or just something i need to know nothing about
[19:35:20] <andypugh> heathmanc: pre-defined pins
[19:35:47] <andypugh> Anyway, you do have 6 PWMs, they just start counting at 0
[19:35:55] <heathmanc> yes, that aspect is good
[19:36:31] <heathmanc> so for 0, i just select x encoder, and then on the other 0, x axis pwm up/down
[19:37:20] <andypugh> Let me check the up/down thing
[19:37:59] <andypugh> Yes, Up/Down it is
[19:39:37] <heathmanc> ok
[19:39:48] <heathmanc> looks simple enough once you figure out what it's trying to tell you
[19:41:50] <heathmanc> lol, when i hit forward, it makes a note about UDM generators
[19:44:08] <heathmanc> and where do i put in my encoder count? does it calculate it somewhere based on the index?
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[19:44:36] <heathmanc> ok, found that
[19:45:51] <heathmanc> pulse rate 17479.8khz motor rpm at max 2000
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[19:48:40] <mrsun> casted new "face plate" for the grinding machine today =) and started machining it :P .. tho i should wait for it to stabalize first :P
[19:48:45] <tjb1> Anyone have a plasmacam system?
[19:48:50] <mrsun> doesnt alu and carbide tooling work well together ?
[19:48:58] <mrsun> got a heck of a buildup on the tip :/
[19:50:51] <heathmanc> 3 flue carbide
[19:50:56] <heathmanc> and aluminum
[19:51:17] <skunkworks> mrsun: coolant/oil?
[19:51:25] <heathmanc> like an accupro helical 3 flute, with some coolant
[19:51:26] <mrsun> used oil
[19:51:32] <mrsun> its in a lathe =)
[19:51:41] <heathmanc> ok
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[19:52:21] <mrsun> i guess i have faaar to high rpm also so :P
[19:52:39] <mrsun> hard to get the rpm right when the motor is stuck in one position :P
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[19:55:34] <Tom_itx> Jymmm, nicrome wire: 1.675 ohm/ft - $.25/ft, 1.3 ohm/ft - $.25/ft, Ribbon: 4.036 ohm/ft $.20/ft, 1.838 ohm/ft $.20/ft, 1.259 ohm/ft .20, .238 ohm/ft .35/ft
[19:55:48] <Tom_itx> you did ask.
[19:57:33] <tjb1> "The PlasmaCAM machine holds a hand-held plasma torch, giving you flexibility and best performance for the dollar. Plasma "machine" torches are much more expensive and have no performance advantage over handheld torches (according to Hypertherm). Also many small plasma cutters are not available with machine torch options. With PlasmaCAM you'll save as much as $1500 on the plasma cutter alone, and you'll be able to use it for hand cutting as well
[19:57:33] <tjb1> desired).
[19:57:34] <tjb1> "
[19:57:45] <tjb1> Kinda contradicts what Jim Colt says on cnczone
[20:01:12] <JT-Shop> tjb1: my supplier can't ship to your area... the list price on EX-3 is $1.50 per inch an OEM like myself would get 20% off an end user usually gets 10-15% off
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[20:01:38] <tjb1> So I cant get it
[20:01:41] <JT-Shop> dunno how that compares to 8020...
[20:01:45] <tjb1> Pretty close to the price of 8020...
[20:01:55] <JT-Shop> the list price?
[20:02:04] <tjb1> 113" at 8020 was $169
[20:02:13] <tjb1> almost exactly the same
[20:02:26] <tjb1> My distributor quoted me 144 for 113" though
[20:02:55] <JT-Shop> have you looked on flea bay?
[20:03:03] <Tom_itx> what is 8020? that T-slot material?
[20:03:04] <tjb1> More expensive
[20:03:19] <JT-Shop> that's crazy
[20:03:32] <tjb1> Well its about the same as the normal 8020 price
[20:03:43] <tjb1> No idea how this one is quoting me so low but im not going to argue
[20:04:08] <JT-Shop> at least you know what the market price is for other brands now
[20:04:30] <tjb1> Im getting about 15% off
[20:04:43] <tjb1> Wonder if I will have to pay tax?
[20:04:44] <JT-Shop> that's about right for an end user
[20:05:14] <tjb1> I "think" im buying from in my state but its being drop shipped from 8020 in another state
[20:05:33] <JT-Shop> btw, I used my hand torch for a while it's no big deal to be able to use the hand torch
[20:06:10] <tjb1> Yeah but the trigger was wire tied
[20:06:22] <tjb1> You cant use the CPC on a hypertherm with a hand torch without changing some things
[20:06:23] <JT-Shop> i also cut for a year or more without any THC
[20:06:35] <JT-Shop> CPC?
[20:06:45] <tjb1> Thats what they call it, the cnc hookup
[20:07:00] <tjb1> arc start, motion start, arc voltage...
[20:07:16] <JT-Shop> oh, mine was just a cable for arc ok and arc start
[20:07:25] <tjb1> arc start wont work with a hand torch
[20:07:41] <tjb1> So im not sure how they are starting the torch
[20:07:47] <JT-Shop> on the 1250 to use the cable you had "jump" out a pair of pins
[20:07:58] <JT-Shop> or just use the trigger
[20:08:05] <tjb1> On my 45, I had to put a jumper in
[20:08:22] <tjb1> But I cant believe HyperTherm will let another company do that...
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[20:09:36] <tjb1> Know what I mean?
[20:09:40] * JT-Shop wanders over to the Samson to finish the flywheel for the steam engine
[20:09:47] <JT-Shop> no, I'm confused
[20:10:06] <tjb1> Cant use arc start with a hand torch without bypassing that safety feature
[20:10:27] <tjb1> Plasmacam is advertising all about using a hand torch and in all the pictures the trigger is wire tied
[20:10:42] <JT-Shop> oh, I see now
[20:11:10] <JT-Shop> I used to get the plasmacam catalog... never bit on anything
[20:11:53] <tjb1> The 5 page brochure garbage?
[20:11:59] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, what is 8020 that T-slot extrusion?
[20:12:02] <JT-Shop> lol yea
[20:12:07] <tjb1> Yeah tom
[20:12:10] <JT-Shop> yea tom
[20:12:11] <tjb1> I just got one today
[20:12:19] <tjb1> The picture on the back are pixelated
[20:12:22] <tjb1> *pictures
[20:12:33] <Tom_itx> who's the main supplier for it?
[20:12:46] <Tom_itx> i could ask maxbots i suppose
[20:12:51] <Tom_itx> he goes thru it like butter
[20:13:04] <tjb1> They have a bunch of useless distributors
[20:13:14] <tjb1> None of them stock any of it
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[20:13:50] <JT-Shop> http://www.ebay.com/itm/8020-T-Slot-Aluminum-Extrusion-15-S-3030-x-60-Long-/220682673624?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3361b65dd8
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[20:14:22] <tjb1> hmm
[20:14:27] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, what's the table material?
[20:14:31] <tjb1> I got quoted $93 for a 73" piece
[20:14:48] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx: what table?
[20:15:01] <Tom_itx> the aluminum extrusion used for table material
[20:15:22] <JT-Shop> I used it for my plasma frame
[20:15:26] <Tom_itx> what you posted is more for structure and assembly isn't it?
[20:15:54] <tjb1> I know I am gonna hear about it but here is mine - http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/469928_3926380233930_1088240025_o.jpg
[20:16:37] <tjb1> That water table with 1" of water holds 34 gallons
[20:16:47] <Tom_itx> http://www.ebay.com/itm/80-20-Inc-1-x-2-T-Slot-Aluminum-Extrusion-10-Series-1020-x-90-/370620362558?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item564ab1ef3e
[20:16:55] <Tom_itx> something like that i suppose
[20:16:58] <JT-Shop> dunno why you just don't skip the 8020 part and save a ton of cash
[20:17:16] <JT-Shop> on the Y
[20:17:27] <Tom_itx> if i were gonna make a table i'd use a solid plate of aluminum probably
[20:17:28] <tjb1> Which is Y?
[20:17:42] <JT-Shop> the two rails on the left and right
[20:17:51] <JT-Shop> http://s47.photobucket.com/albums/f163/johnplctech/Plasma%20Cutter/
[20:17:54] <tjb1> I call that X :P
[20:18:13] <JT-Shop> you can call it what ever you want :)
[20:18:18] <tjb1> Thats why I asked
[20:18:28] <tjb1> What size is your table?
[20:19:12] <JT-Shop> the cutting area is 52 x ~36 but I can fit a 4' x 8' sheet on the table under the rails
[20:19:27] <tjb1> Is your water table not full size as the supports?
[20:19:30] <tjb1> http://s47.photobucket.com/albums/f163/johnplctech/Plasma%20Cutter/?action=view&current=H2OTable.jpg
[20:19:58] <JT-Shop> not quite as I can't cut back there
[20:20:07] <tjb1> That 1 piece?
[20:20:11] <tjb1> or 4 triangles?
[20:20:17] <JT-Shop> what?
[20:20:22] <tjb1> Water table
[20:20:50] <JT-Shop> oh, one piece with a X in the middle to make it drain to the center
[20:21:05] <JT-Shop> they just touch it with the press brake to get the X
[20:21:30] <tjb1> I dont think I will be able to get a 1 piece water table
[20:22:26] <JT-Shop> I should have had the cutting head more to the rear and I would be able to to cut 52 x 45 or so
[20:22:42] <tjb1> Should I offset my Y axis on the X carriages or run it down the middle?
[20:22:52] <JT-Shop> do you plan on cutting a full sheet at once
[20:23:04] <tjb1> It has the capability
[20:23:16] <tjb1> I think it will have a max cutting area of about 55" wide
[20:23:27] <tjb1> so I dont have to have the sheet perfectly down the middle
[20:24:16] <tjb1> Well its 55" if I run the Z carriage into the X carriages
[20:24:28] <JT-Shop> I would extend the side rails out enough so the torch can reach the end of the water table
[20:24:46] <tjb1> The water table isnt 4x8
[20:24:48] <JT-Shop> in the photo extend them away from you
[20:24:58] <tjb1> you mean lengthwise?
[20:25:28] <JT-Shop> see the floating parts, extend the rails in that direction
[20:25:55] <tjb1> Its already 115" long
[20:26:06] <JT-Shop> this does two things, one you can load a sheet from overhead, B you can cut the full lenght of the water table
[20:26:09] <tjb1> With the torch center about 10" away from the end of the carriages
[20:26:29] <JT-Shop> or you could shorten the water table to the useful area only
[20:26:52] <tjb1> The torch can reach the end on the front
[20:26:57] <JT-Shop> right
[20:27:14] <tjb1> I think, might be a little short because I have the Y axis set off center on the X carriages
[20:27:20] <JT-Shop> so, the rails can be a bit shorter on the front
[20:27:29] <tjb1> I will have 10" of useless area on the back
[20:27:45] <JT-Shop> don't waste slats or water table in that area
[20:27:48] <tjb1> Useless cutting area
[20:28:31] <tjb1> What thickness is your water table material?
[20:28:37] <JT-Shop> how are you going to hold the slats up
[20:28:53] <tjb1> They are gonna sit in the table
[20:29:33] <tjb1> Maybe on like 1/2" square tubing or something so water can flow underneath them
[20:30:11] <JT-Shop> 0.075" thick
[20:30:31] <JT-Shop> 14 ga
[20:31:07] <tjb1> I calculated mine out with 1" of water it was like 272 pounds
[20:31:15] <tjb1> just the water
[20:31:43] <JT-Shop> oh and you want the sides of the water table to be a bit higher than the slats
[20:31:46] <Jymmm> Ketchup http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=5Tj6AskAO9s
[20:32:04] <tjb1> Whys that?
[20:32:13] <tjb1> Wouldnt that make it harder to load
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[20:32:14] <mrsun> ok, hss tooling it is for alu
[20:32:16] <JT-Shop> do you have a drawing of how you plan on holding the slats?
[20:32:17] <mrsun> cut it like butter
[20:32:22] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: http://8020.net/
[20:32:38] <mrsun> casting came out quite nice =) just some small porosity at center (where the sprue was) otherwise totaly void free =)
[20:32:49] <JT-Shop> you might want to have the water level at the top of the slats depending on the part and the material
[20:32:52] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Thanks for the prices, I might hit you up on one or two
[20:33:19] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: any ideas on where to get "rubberized" rollers?
[20:33:30] <JT-Shop> nope
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[20:33:42] <JT-Shop> you can make them
[20:34:06] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: I dont have a lathe to "smooth" them out
[20:34:15] <tjb1> I dont know, 2" of water is already around 540 pounds on the table
[20:36:01] <tjb1> How high is your table JT-Shop
[20:36:06] <tjb1> The water table
[20:36:32] <bostjan_2> psha: TNX for your wonderfull Inkscape plugin!!!!!!!!
[20:37:13] <psha> bostjan_2: mine?!
[20:37:53] <psha> inkscape is developed by Nick
[20:37:57] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Nice, new and "rebuilt" (?) rubber rollers http://www.jjshort.com/Rubber-Covered-Rollers-Intro.php
[20:37:57] <psha> inkscape plugin
[20:38:00] <Tom_itx> Jymmm, 'rubberized rollers': http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/sumo_files/sumo_wheelmold_index.php
[20:38:05] <bostjan_2> sorry!!!!!
[20:38:08] <psha> :)
[20:38:10] <psha> no problem :)
[20:38:34] <bostjan_2> your is CamVieW, it also works like charm!!
[20:39:07] <JT-Shop> tjb1: the sides of the water table?
[20:39:14] <tjb1> Yes
[20:39:29] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: 1. Sumo is a robot? 2. What material did you use?
[20:39:39] <Tom_itx> urethane from tapp plastics
[20:39:40] <bostjan_2> Nick: Sorry, i have credited before psha for Inkscape plugin. It's yours. Thanks for it!!!
[20:39:43] <Tom_itx> shore 30
[20:39:47] <JT-Shop> 3"
[20:40:14] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Doens't EVERYTHING like to stick to it?
[20:40:23] <JT-Shop> Jymmm: why do you need a lathe?
[20:40:33] <Tom_itx> everybody needs a lathe
[20:40:52] <JT-Shop> speaking of a lathe I need to finish the flywheel
[20:40:53] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: what tm said, but I was thinking a dip process or sorts
[20:41:04] <JT-Shop> yuck!
[20:41:12] <Tom_itx> pliers insulating rubber dip
[20:41:42] <JT-Shop> I use tubing and "blow" it up and slip it on and let the air out
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[20:41:45] <Tom_itx> not very uniform though
[20:42:15] <Tom_itx> dammit! i cut this wire twice and it's till too short
[20:42:42] <Jymmm> Askin JT-Shop about his tools, is like asking King Kong if one bannana will be enough. Seriously heavy duty and no comparision to the rest of the world
[20:42:51] <Tom_itx> the only way i can get more is in a 100' roll
[20:42:58] <Jymmm> (that meant in a good way)
[20:43:22] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: it wasn't too short the FIRST time you cut it?
[20:43:24] <JT-Shop> LOL
[20:44:28] <Tom_itx> the problem is, 100' is about $100 and 1000' is about $200
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[20:44:34] <Tom_itx> i'll sell you the rest
[20:44:42] <Jymmm> Not this lil crane, but frickin 1400lb one. Not a lil 12" pop-gun cannon, but a frickin 200lb one.
[20:44:52] <Tom_itx> cause all i really need is about 20'
[20:45:16] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: what type of wire?
[20:45:29] <Tom_itx> 18Ga 4 cond shielded
[20:46:00] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Buy the 1000' ft and sell the rest
[20:46:10] <Tom_itx> i should
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[20:46:18] <Tom_itx> but i don't really wanna sit on it
[20:46:27] <Jymmm> sell in 20ft rolls to make it easy
[20:46:43] <Jymmm> or 35ft or whatever
[20:47:23] <Jymmm> usps priority mail flatrate boxes $9
[20:48:09] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: I got some of that at Homedepot
[20:48:28] <Jymmm> by the foot, but it was a ways ago, so I suspect the price has gone up
[20:49:23] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Yeah, that ws my first thought, tool dip.
[20:49:45] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: thanks for the mold idea/pics
[20:50:42] <andypugh> I want about 6' of 32mm flex conduit. I _don't_ want 100'
[20:50:53] <andypugh> Because I don't want to spend £100
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[20:51:30] <Jymmm> andypugh: and you hit an electrical sop and buy some from them?
[20:51:34] <Jymmm> shop
[20:51:43] <andypugh> They sell it by the reel too.
[20:51:58] <Jymmm> andypugh: bring a 12 pack of beverages
[20:52:44] <Jymmm> not an electrical supplier, an electrician contractor
[20:53:28] <Jymmm> probably will give you 12ft for 10 or $20
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[20:54:28] <Jymmm> Hit up the guys in the shop, not the front counter. They usually know where the scrap stuff is.
[20:54:36] <andypugh> If I knew the maintainance guys at work i could probably get it free.
[20:54:59] <Jymmm> andypugh: thus the 12pack of beverages =)
[20:55:30] <Jymmm> andypugh: I have gotten more stuff when bribing with food and drink =)
[20:55:51] <andypugh> Bringing booze on site is not allowed, I don't think.
[20:56:25] <Jymmm> andypugh: It doesn't have to be boose, Hot summer day and ice cold soda works too. Donuts,pasteries, etc
[20:56:36] <Jymmm> pizza, etc
[20:57:10] <Jymmm> Tell them straight up "This is a bribe" and go from there =)
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[20:58:04] <Jymmm> dozen donuts monday morning is never a bad thing.
[20:58:50] <Jymmm> I dont know what it is, but bribing with food has ALWAYS worked for me.
[20:59:19] <Jymmm> It's like you come with an offering, and not just want somethign for nothing.
[20:59:43] <Tom_itx> timing
[20:59:49] <Jymmm> your kinda showing your appreciation if they can help.
[20:59:49] <Tom_itx> don't bribe with food right after lunch
[21:00:06] <Jymmm> heh
[21:01:51] <Jymmm> When I hit CL Free stuff, I'll give candy or cookies. It is surprising how many people have never had that happen.
[21:02:05] <Jymmm> makes their day too.
[21:02:06] <andypugh> Maybe you have people skills? Though that seems unlikely from what we see on here :-)
[21:02:53] <Jymmm> andypugh: no, no people skills. Just appreciate it when ppl offer things is all.
[21:02:54] <andypugh> Though some Chinese guy is trying to give me a free computer :-)
[21:03:57] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[21:03:57] <Jymmm> andypugh: Oh, and fuck you and the chinese computer your rode in on. Or in Brit speak... Fuck off! =)
[21:04:01] <Jymmm> gn9
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[21:04:31] <Jymmm> andypugh: (add the Brit accent on that last statement too =)
[21:04:59] <Jymmm> It's just not the same in an american accent.
[21:08:34] <Jymmm> WOW those are some tight tolerances http://www.abbarubber.com/tech.html
[21:19:38] <mrsun> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=5XLBATUoDz8 wth is that ruler? :)
[21:19:41] <mrsun> full of slots? :)
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[21:24:05] <tjb1> Hey JT-Shop, did you use carriage bolts for your extrusions
[21:27:11] <mrsun> hmm, how to grab hold of a flat surface that is greater diameter then my chuck can hold :/
[21:27:31] <tjb1> flip the jaws? :P
[21:27:41] <mrsun> with jaws flipped
[21:27:46] <mrsun> i cant grab the od
[21:27:47] <tjb1> double sided tape
[21:27:55] <mrsun> TRUE =)
[21:27:59] <mrsun> love you =)
[21:28:00] <tjb1> insert disclaimer here
[21:28:25] <mrsun> i can even have a smalls tud extruding for extra protection from it flinging off :P
[21:28:48] <tjb1> weld it on :)
[21:29:00] <mrsun> nah
[21:29:13] <mrsun> will have a reamed hole in the center, and will drill that from my current setup
[21:29:14] <JT-Shop> tjb1: yes, that works... the only thing connected that way on mine is the limit trip
[21:29:28] <tjb1> Cheaper than those damn t slot nuts
[21:29:35] <tjb1> 8020 wants like $1.50 each
[21:29:38] <mrsun> then i can face off a smaller piece and let a stud extrude that fits the piece, add some glue .. hell i could even use superglue
[21:29:38] <tjb1> piss on that
[21:29:48] <mrsun> and glue it on
[21:29:55] <tjb1> what rpm?
[21:29:55] <mrsun> face of the parts i need and im set =)
[21:30:03] <mrsun> i can go very low if i want to :P
[21:30:18] <tjb1> Then you have the task of getting it back off :)
[21:30:25] <mrsun> tjb1, some heat
[21:30:28] <mrsun> or acetone
[21:30:32] <mrsun> gets the job done
[21:31:15] <tjb1> Hey JT-Shop, im gonna have two drives on the x-axis…should I have a homing switch on each?
[21:31:32] <tjb1> I dont know how I would get them both to work so im thinking only one
[21:32:10] <JT-Shop> I found it much easier to have a jackshaft beween the two sides and one stepper
[21:32:36] <JT-Shop> but yea iirc you can have a switch on both sides but you have to do some dancing around to make it work
[21:32:45] <mrsun> i would never go with two steppers on the same axis i think
[21:32:57] <mrsun> as when steppers turn on, they snap to the nearest best position
[21:32:59] <tjb1> I cant run a shaft between them
[21:33:03] <tjb1> It would have to run above
[21:33:24] <mrsun> so could go forward, or backward, depending on where they stopped last
[21:33:38] <mrsun> making things not being straight anymore :P
[21:34:05] <tjb1> They arent direct drive mrsun
[21:34:10] <tjb1> They will be stepped down
[21:34:31] <tjb1> maybe up...
[21:36:08] <Jymmm> mrsun: looks like a printers ruler
[21:36:15] <mrsun> i still think it will be a problem, say the drives start at 1 1 1 1 on the phases, every time, you stop at 0101, one stepper throws forward, other backward, you will be a whole step or two off, times two :P
[21:36:41] <tjb1> I will rotate it until correct
[21:36:42] <JT-Shop> tjb1: you have acres of space in the 3030
[21:37:11] <tjb1> Whats that mean?
[21:37:29] <tjb1> Run shaft through the 3030?
[21:37:35] <Jymmm> mrsun: are you looking at making a fire piston?
[21:37:42] <mrsun> Jymmm, aye =)
[21:37:51] <mrsun> not this project
[21:37:52] <Jymmm> mrsun: jsut because?
[21:37:54] <mrsun> that i need to setup now
[21:38:01] <mrsun> Jymmm, present for a friend =)
[21:38:15] <Jymmm> mrsun: has s/he used one before?
[21:38:17] <mrsun> or gift or whatever
[21:38:21] <mrsun> Jymmm, not that i know of
[21:38:33] <mrsun> hes a camper and he likes outdoorsy stuff :P
[21:38:35] <Jymmm> mrsun: Okey, there's a thing about those.
[21:38:44] <mrsun> Jymmm, what? :)
[21:39:15] <Jymmm> mrsun: sure, ok, but make him a nice holder for fire steel not a fire piston
[21:39:23] <andypugh> mrsun: What material?
[21:39:29] <mrsun> andypugh, was thinking alu
[21:39:38] <mrsun> Jymmm, why ? :P
[21:39:40] <Jymmm> mrsun: they are a SERIOUS BITCH to use to start a fire from.
[21:39:42] <andypugh> Ah, then my magnetic chuck would be no help.
[21:39:43] <mrsun> its a cool gadget =)
[21:40:00] <Jymmm> mrsun: Sure, it is but for 95% of the people, useless.
[21:40:04] <mrsun> andypugh, ahh ... other project again
[21:40:06] <Jymmm> as tits on a bull
[21:40:13] <Jymmm> mrsun: you have a lathe?
[21:40:19] <andypugh> mrsun: No, I saw it on eBay while drunk.
[21:40:26] <mrsun> the project i need to fasten that is to big is a sanding disc thingie for a belt sander
[21:40:40] <mrsun> Jymmm, yes
[21:41:07] <andypugh> mrsun: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/110895732424
[21:41:30] <mrsun> andypugh, cool =)
[21:41:36] <tjb1> When a machine hits a limit, does the limit have to stay activated for it to stop or as soon as it turns on the machine will stop until you move it?
[21:41:37] <andypugh> mrsun: Screw a smaller part on from the back?
[21:41:37] <mrsun> but that project is also alu so :P
[21:42:08] <mrsun> andypugh, i think the superglue route is a nicer way to go, then nothing is in the way for me to machine =)
[21:42:12] <Jymmm> mrsun: My suggestion would be to tack soem brass rod and mill an orniated screw top container to use as a fire bundle instead that cna be attached to something (loop?)
[21:42:42] <andypugh> tjb1: It will stop even if the limit is only set for a nanosecond. In fact You probably want to debounce them because 1mS is quite quick enough, and nuiscance trips are annoying.
[21:42:45] <Jymmm> mrsun: If it can fit a fire still in it (for stoarge) somehow, that would be cooler
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[21:43:10] <tjb1> Alright thanks andypugh, I was worred that with the inductive if it went over fast enough it wouldnt stop
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[21:43:26] <Jymmm> mrsun: maybe flip the lid of the attached firesteel or something like that (not necessary though)
[21:43:34] <mrsun> storing fire you just have a box with ashes and take an ember =)
[21:43:48] <Jymmm> mrsun: not in the damp rain you dont
[21:43:53] <alex_joni> Jymmm: I doubt it
[21:43:54] <Jymmm> or crossing a creek
[21:43:59] <Jymmm> alex_joni: =)
[21:44:01] <mrsun> Jymmm, if you have a fire going you could ? :)
[21:44:06] <alex_joni> you need a two hand thingie for that ;)
[21:44:17] <Jymmm> alex_joni: </sarcasim>
[21:44:22] <mrsun> ashes will be dry, or maybe ember is the wrong work, a piece of burning charcoal im meaning :P
[21:44:39] <mrsun> work->word
[21:44:47] <Jymmm> mrsun: have you ever lit charcloth?
[21:44:56] <mrsun> Jymmm, no ...
[21:45:06] <mrsun> seems to burn quite well :P
[21:45:12] <Jymmm> mrsun: It is NOT easy at all
[21:45:35] <Jymmm> to get flame from an ember of charcloth that is
[21:46:10] <Jymmm> and if it's high humidity in the air, forget it.
[21:46:50] <mrsun> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=67mhyy_znvY <-- wow, titanium can be quite beautifull =)
[21:46:54] <Jymmm> Sure, a fire piston beats a friction fire. but Daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaamn
[21:47:31] <mrsun> Jymmm, hehe i will try it out some myself, never tried one myself either, seems like a cool toy so =)
[21:48:48] <Jymmm> mrsun: Well, pre fire steel days (1800's), sure. But seriously it took me 40 minutes to get a flames once I had the ember in PERFECT CONDITIONS and that was on my 10th try at it too.
[21:49:20] <Jymmm> and I've only been able to do it once. It is seriosuly an artform.
[21:50:27] <Jymmm> mrsun: You have to watch those videos closely. They either show the fire piston, but not it producing flame. or the ember and the four hours inbetween from ember to flame.
[21:50:38] <Jymmm> cut out.
[21:51:16] <Jymmm> mrsun: There is only one honest video of primative fire I've seen on YT
[21:52:08] <andypugh> I <3 WOL
[21:52:19] <Jymmm> Wake On Lan?
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[21:52:33] <andypugh> It just saved me getting out of my chair to turn on the PC behind me :-)
[21:52:40] <Jymmm> lol
[21:53:19] <Jymmm> andypugh: CONGRADULATIONS! You have won the Ultimate Lazy Bastard of the day award!!! SPEECH! SPEECH!
[21:54:07] <Jymmm> mrsun: FWIW CharCord > CharCloth
[21:54:52] <mrsun> hmm ok =)
[21:55:05] <tjb1> I dont think I have enough use for a titanium fire piston to pay $155
[21:55:05] <tjb1> lol
[21:55:11] <Jymmm> mrsun: The whole rubbing of two sticks, friction, charcord, fire pistons,etc are all under the category of "Primitive Fire" starting methods.
[21:56:02] <tjb1> hmm, titanium straw
[21:57:29] <tjb1> That guy has some damn good glow in the dark material
[21:58:40] <Jymmm> mrsun: And, the ground is not that wet... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLK72zyiaMo&feature=related
[21:59:31] <Jymmm> mrsun: Plus, I see that whiteish tinder he's using on the pine needle nest, that looks like somethig he brought and it would HAVE to be perfectly dry for it to work.
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[22:06:51] <PCW> If you have to carry dry tinder why is this any better than a match? (other than it looks cool on nice warm sunny days where a magnifier would do better)
[22:07:28] <Jymmm> PCW: Matches only last less than 30s and don't work damp/wet.
[22:07:56] <PCW> blowing an a weak ember is better sorry no
[22:08:35] <Jymmm> the ember is primative fire starting methods, and is an artform
[22:08:47] <PCW> I guess
[22:08:59] <Jymmm> even when carrying tinder, it's not easy at all.
[22:09:33] <Jymmm> PCW: It's just being "self suficiant" when you have nothing =)
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[22:10:42] <PCW> I guess
[22:10:58] <Jymmm> PCW: It's just an extension of any hobby =)
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[22:18:12] <andypugh> I just wired in the original machine light on my mill.
[22:18:31] <andypugh> I amnot sure why, it doesn't really make much sense to use a 25V AC Incadescent nowadays.
[22:19:02] <Jymmm> andypugh: http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/20169658/
[22:19:39] <andypugh> Probably runs off a wal-wart though
[22:19:41] <Jymmm> andypugh: 24" gooseneck LED, runs on an included 120VAC to 4.5VDC adapter
[22:19:56] <andypugh> I don't have 120VAC
[22:20:17] <Jymmm> andypugh: it unplugs from the adapter, so you could wire it to any 5VDC source
[22:20:37] <andypugh> Aye, and I do have plenty of 5V
[22:20:49] <PCW> 25V? what powers it?
[22:20:50] <Jymmm> the base is two screws so super easy to mount to a small angle bracket
[22:21:08] <Jymmm> PCW: 4.5VDC
[22:21:36] <PCW> I mean the 25V incandescent
[22:21:36] <Jymmm> someone onhere turned be on to it, great lil light!
[22:22:52] <andypugh> PCW it's got a transformer in a box, with the gooseneck on top. It's actually quite neat, with the transformer mounted to the lid, and fuses for both HV and LV sides. Pulling the lid off isolates everything. Quality 70s stuff.
[22:23:12] <Jymmm> andypugh: http://i47.tinypic.com/112d9ox.jpg
[22:24:04] <Jymmm> andypugh: the AC adapter http://i45.tinypic.com/145ytg.jpg
[22:24:05] <andypugh> http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/LAGLSC60BC.html
[22:24:53] <PCW> On you manual mill? seems nice to go to that trouble (I guess a low voltage bulb is more reliable with vbration and wiring is safer)
[22:25:06] <andypugh> I will probably keep the gooseneck but replace the transfomer, and fit LED
[22:25:25] <Jymmm> andypugh: the LED is great, no need to replace it.
[22:25:35] <andypugh> 25V bulbs were almost standard on UK machine tools.
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[22:26:15] <andypugh> Something to do with a fear of conductive swarf, wet floors and 240V
[22:26:34] <PCW> Jymmm that Lithium cell flashlight you suggested is pretty nice I have used it a lot and have not had to charge it yet
[22:26:58] <PCW> Yeah 240 is scary for us mercuns
[22:27:02] <Jymmm> PCW: the $27 one that uses an 18650 battery?
[22:27:30] <PCW> Yeah i think it was 800 or 1000 lumens or some such
[22:28:15] <Jymmm> pcw_home: Yeah, I'm getting ready to buy another one. Tip hit a fishng store and get yourself a #4 or #6 split ring if you want to attach a lanyard to it
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[22:29:09] <Tom_itx> ok, i tested these transformer secondaries once more. this time i use the Amp setting on the meter. i'm getting .34 ma on a dead short across the secondaries. i think it's ok to safely combine them
[22:29:17] <PCW> I usually just use it for bump in the night type things around the house
[22:29:45] <Tom_itx> i think that's about as closely matched as you can hope for
[22:30:05] <PCW> (have to worry about predators with sheep/chickens)
[22:30:06] <Jymmm> pcw_home: the 5 mode takes some getting used to, but the light output is great! Beats the hell out of my 3D LED Maglite for the throw it gives.
[22:30:48] <Jymmm> pcw_home: I love that I can put it in LOW mode and conserve batery life.
[22:31:00] <PCW> Yeah I can see dogs at night more that 1000 ft away
[22:31:34] <Jymmm> pcw_home: Glad my suggestion was useful, I though nobody ever listened to me on that stuff =)
[22:32:07] <andypugh> Bring the sheeps indoors? https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/W_eX4qsT_4YY76KI9_1kl9MTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
[22:32:25] <Jymmm> sheep diaper! lol
[22:32:58] <Jymmm> andypugh: that yours?
[22:33:25] <andypugh> No, it belongs to the young lass in the photo. They live in my parent's hamlet.
[22:33:54] <Jymmm> pcw_home: Hay, wait a sec... where the hell do you live in the Bay Area that you have livestock????
[22:33:56] <Jymmm> andypugh: ah =)
[22:34:05] <PCW> Ive heard bottle babies are a lot of work (and kind of a nuisance when the grow up noise wise)
[22:34:10] <andypugh> That's my mum's kitchen though.
[22:34:13] <Jymmm> PCW: ^^^^^
[22:34:21] <ds3> bay area and livestock?!
[22:34:25] <PCW> El Sobrante
[22:34:33] <Jymmm> ds3: thats what I said!
[22:35:02] <ds3> hmmm
[22:35:12] <PCW> lots of horses around (and there was a cow nearby when we move there 15 yrs ago)
[22:35:41] <Jymmm> I dont see any pastures http://goo.gl/maps/Aor7
[22:36:11] <ds3> come to think of it, there is cows along I580
[22:36:14] <ds3> there are
[22:36:14] <andypugh> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5186HbbE3kA
[22:36:34] <PCW> its a lot more built up now (but there are cattle on the Sobrante ridge)
[22:36:45] <Jymmm> PCW: ah, ok
[22:38:35] <andypugh> I like the comment "I feel that 10 years from now I will be fighting these for control of the earth."
[22:39:04] <PCW> Yeah I saw that earlier and it is a bit unsettling
[22:43:03] <JT-Shop> I'm thinking improved cylinder and bird shot
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[22:52:11] <PCW> A nice portable EMP gen would also ground them (wheres that Maxell low L cap...)
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[22:57:13] <tjb1> For only $2400 I can have an awesome laptop
[22:57:45] <tjb1> or for $3800 I can have a damn awesome laptop
[22:57:58] <PCW> but it will be un-awesome 6 months later...
[22:58:07] <tjb1> no, 1 year
[22:58:50] <PCW> depends when the next model comes out
[22:59:48] <tjb1> Apple is on a yearly cycle
[23:00:10] <tjb1> They do minor performance bumps about 6 months after release but not a major release until ~1 year later
[23:00:45] <andypugh> I like to buy semi-awesome and keep them a while. My G4 Cube was 8 years old when I sold it (at a profit), my 6yo iMac is now working nicely for my parents, and I might keep this 27" iMac for ever :-)
[23:01:02] <tjb1> That new retina one is so damn awesome
[23:01:12] -!- sumpfralle [sumpfralle!~lars@31-16-21-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #linuxcnc
[23:01:13] <tjb1> but im not shelling out 3k for one with a 500gb hdd
[23:01:24] <tjb1> Not that I would use 500gb...
[23:01:43] <andypugh> More Youtube. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmHRsAUByGg You can hear me calmly discussing the nav spreadsheet macro I was writing with the skipper as the microphone is below decks. It's a bit surreal.
[23:01:49] <tjb1> Only have a 120gb hdd now..
[23:02:50] <JT-Shop> which one are you Andy?
[23:03:00] <Jymmm> Vegetable Lasagna, good and ZERO chemicals (I can pronounce and know what every ingredient is) $7 USD (safeway Grocery store) almost two lbs, easily serves 4 ppl http://www.michaelangelos.com/
[23:03:11] <andypugh> I am down below writing Excel macros :-)
[23:03:17] <JT-Shop> ah
[23:03:19] <Jymmm> andypugh: ewwwwwwwwwww
[23:03:57] <andypugh> Jymmm: The only thing with zero chemicals is vacuum lasagne.
[23:04:08] <Jymmm> PCW: which charger did you get?
[23:04:28] <Jymmm> andypugh: I swear, this is the ONLY thing I have ever seen with no chems
[23:04:40] <PCW> but even that has virtual particles
[23:05:07] <PCW> I forget i think it was trustfire
[23:05:10] <tjb1> Hey andypugh
[23:05:11] <tjb1> http://www.ebay.com/itm/190691418362?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
[23:06:08] <PCW> I do like the suggestion to avoid packaged food with more than 5 ingredients
[23:07:10] <tjb1> the more the merrier
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[23:10:17] <andypugh> tjb1: ?
[23:10:18] <JT-Shop> my favorite dish uses brats, onion, bell pepper, potatoes, beef stock, and a spoon
[23:11:05] <uw> my fav dish is something cold like waterice or something
[23:12:20] <tjb1> Wasnt that you that showed me the touch screens?
[23:12:26] <Jymmm> PCW: andypugh JT-Shop Michael Angelos (.com) Vegetable Lasagna, Box: http://i49.tinypic.com/ftjpc.jpg Ingredients: http://i47.tinypic.com/6ixhlx.jpg
[23:13:17] <JT-Shop> yuck, lasagna without meat
[23:13:26] <tjb1> I agree ^
[23:13:40] <andypugh> That's a lot of chemicals, some probably unknown to science. All stuff is made of chemicals.
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[23:14:00] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: I'm trying no-meat for the month of June
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[23:14:40] <tjb1> Hey Jymmm - http://blog.timesunion.com/bestof2010/files/2010/06/fiveguys.jpg
[23:14:44] <Jymmm> andypugh: lol, well I guess there's always flavorless meat substitute soy protien "burgers"
[23:14:56] <andypugh> It's fairly easy at home. It's harder out and about. It's really hard in Spain, and harder still in China.
[23:15:09] <Jymmm> tjb1: Five Guys isn't all that GREAT
[23:15:21] <tjb1> I never have ate there
[23:15:27] <tjb1> Just the first picture in google search
[23:15:29] <andypugh> The chips (fries) look good
[23:15:40] <Jymmm> andypugh: very gresay
[23:15:50] <uw> yea not that great
[23:15:51] <andypugh> Ah.
[23:16:08] <Jymmm> the meat doens't have a lot of good flavor to it either
[23:16:23] <Jymmm> You expect in a $6 burger
[23:16:24] <andypugh> Proper fish and chips ought to be fried in beef dripping, but almost nowhere does any more in the UK. Which suits me, as it happens.
[23:16:26] <uw> west coast variet is better IMO (In n Out) and that isnt THAT great
[23:16:56] <Jymmm> uwe_: It USED to be, pre 2005
[23:17:22] <uw> yea cant say i had a five guys burger before 2006
[23:17:34] <Jymmm> uw: If you are in LA, try EZ Out. It is a fallen out brother of In n out
[23:17:35] <uw> so ill take your word for it
[23:17:56] <Jymmm> uw: better flavor at EZ out
[23:18:26] <uw> perhaps next time, im actually in ny
[23:18:51] <Jymmm> uw: Thers is only like 4 or 5 up them =)
[23:18:51] <uw> i have tried roscos chicken and waffles though
[23:19:00] <andypugh> I though EZ-Out was a device to make spark erosion companies profitable?
[23:19:16] <Jymmm> uw: Hit Fat Burger if you are in LA/Hollyweird
[23:19:24] <uw> Jymmm, how are their prices btw (EZ out)
[23:19:34] <uw> as cheap as in n out?
[23:19:43] <Jymmm> uw: same/cheaper than In n out
[23:20:02] <uw> hmm yea maybe i will try them
[23:20:28] <Jymmm> uw: It's been a while since I was in soCal, so thing might have changed some
[23:21:02] <uw> I'm usually in sandeigo when i have to go to the west coast (which isnt very often)
[23:21:37] <uw> is it called EZ take out? or just EZ out?
[23:22:43] <Jymmm> uw: http://goo.gl/maps/xBtI
[23:23:43] <Jymmm> in n out is 1/8th mile east
[23:24:02] <andypugh> Serious question. Do you really care how much food costs? It's (mainly) all cheap enough to buy what you like.
[23:24:35] <uw> andypugh, I being american, am a man of principal.
[23:24:39] <Jymmm> Cheap food is usually starches, pasta, potatoes, etc. so yes =)
[23:24:58] <Jymmm> uw: Joeys BBW (across the street) isn't too shabby either $$
[23:25:01] <Jymmm> BBQ
[23:25:12] <uw> an in and out burger is about half of the price of 5 guys and just as good if not better
[23:25:15] <andypugh> I might prefer BBW :-)
[23:25:23] <uw> therefore, i dont buy 5 guys anymore
[23:25:23] <Jymmm> lol
[23:25:56] <andypugh> Choice of nibbling on a BBW and nibbling on a BBQ? I think the former generally wins.
[23:26:02] <Jymmm> I dont eat in n out anymore and haven't in 5+ years. just bad now. ppl go on it's (once was) reputation alone.
[23:26:56] <uw> You know, not sure if ive seen this place before or if there are alot of places in CA that look like this LOL
[23:27:09] <Jymmm> andypugh: I think I'd prefer the bbq. GOOD BBQ is hard to come by; bbw well, there is ample supply
[23:27:22] <tjb1> clems bbq is the best
[23:27:31] <uw> clems
[23:27:32] <uw> ?
[23:27:34] <tjb1> http://www.clemsfire.com/
[23:27:38] <tjb1> its a pa thing
[23:27:59] <tjb1> best steaks anywhere - http://theribber.com/
[23:28:00] <andypugh> I went to a BBQ at a friends house a few weeks ago. They are _really_ boring if seared dead flesh isn't your thing.
[23:28:32] <andypugh> It might have been better if I hadn't been planning to ride home, so wasn't drinking
[23:28:52] <JT-Shop> mmmm Adams Ribs in Chicago near the Dearborn Street Station
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[23:30:16] <Jymmm> We hit a new soul food place, worse food ever! I should have known better when I saw greens on the menu and there wasn't a big black lady cooking them in the kitchen!
[23:30:42] <Jymmm> and one that calls eveyrone 'baby' or 'sugar' =)
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[23:31:23] <Jymmm> Big Black Lady == DAMN FINE GREENS!
[23:31:40] <Jymmm> Skinny ass chick == bad, very bad!
[23:32:59] <andypugh> I went to a Soul Food Vegan place in Oakland. It was interesting, but not great. And the customers all seemed wierd.
[23:33:19] <Jymmm> And that's not being prejudicial, it's just a fact.
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[23:33:25] <Jymmm> andypugh: were they staring at you?
[23:33:37] <andypugh> No, I fitted in,
[23:33:44] * Jymmm avoids Oakland unless I have to.
[23:34:02] <andypugh> You are nearby?
[23:34:13] <Jymmm> andypugh: 30 minutes
[23:34:24] <andypugh> You could have popped round to see me and the boat.
[23:34:31] <andypugh> PCW did
[23:34:48] <Jymmm> andypugh: I told you I'd buy ya a beer when you got here, you never came online =)
[23:35:15] <Jymmm> andypugh: I told you 3 months before you departed =)
[23:35:30] <andypugh> I probably forgot. 3 months is a long time.
[23:35:41] <Jymmm> andypugh: It's all good, next time =)
[23:36:21] <andypugh> So, back to business. Does anyone understand #include well enough to explain something to me?
[23:36:52] <tjb1> I dont have work tomorrow, sorry andy :)
[23:36:54] <Jymmm> #include <stdio.h> is all I know
[23:37:25] <Jymmm> andypugh: I suspect cradek and jepler do though
[23:37:28] <ds3> what is there to understand? :D
[23:38:14] <Jymmm> ds3: memorization of *.h =)
[23:38:17] <andypugh> I have a type which includes a second type, and the second type includes functions with parameters of the second type. But I am guessing that they probably can't #include each other, or it will get messily recursive.
[23:38:41] <ds3> you can, but you need to setup your .h files right
[23:39:03] <Jymmm> andypugh: when it compiles I think it will take care of that for you.
[23:39:06] <ds3> the common way of handling that is to put your entire .h file between #if's
[23:39:43] <andypugh> Ah, I think I have seen that in the code I am partially reproducing.
[23:40:00] <Jymmm> ds3: why if's ?
[23:40:08] <tjb1> http://www.roadfood.com/photos/7624.jpg
[23:41:24] <Jymmm> tjb1: bread bad, coleslaw bad, kidney beans? bad, ribs, covered in too much sauce which is masking the meat, bad. No thanks to any of it.
[23:41:38] <tjb1> lol
[23:41:48] <Jymmm> Hell, I make better slaw than that.
[23:41:59] <tjb1> you havent ate it, how do you know
[23:42:05] <Jymmm> and I see no smoke rig on the ribs
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[23:42:41] <Jymmm> tjb1: When I said "good bbq" I can tell just from looking anymore, I've had my fair share of bad bbq to know better now.
[23:43:12] <Jymmm> A touch of sauce is fine, but the bbq should stand on it's on merit.
[23:43:36] <Jymmm> it's bbq, not meat from an oven covered in sauce.
[23:44:23] <Jymmm> It doesn't look like too bad of a sauce though.
[23:44:45] <Jymmm> slightly too red, but that's personal preference.
[23:45:55] <Jymmm> tjb1: Now, THATS a smke ringbaby http://static.flickr.com/54/150874778_304e225fd0.jpg?v=0
[23:46:00] <Jymmm> smoke
[23:46:30] <Jymmm> tjb1: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_8wmjm5_Be0k/TAcuGq2fNRI/AAAAAAAAnSI/aML9w9bEjsY/s1600/ribs.JPG
[23:48:33] <andypugh> Jymmm: That first one, what kind of meat would that be? It looks wierd.
[23:48:50] <Jymmm> andypugh: I think it's briscit (sp)
[23:48:58] <andypugh> Beef, then?
[23:49:00] <tjb1> http://s3.amazonaws.com/foodspotting-ec2/reviews/150160/thumb_600.jpg?1286648978?1340322527
[23:49:01] <Jymmm> yes
[23:49:03] <andypugh> (brisket)
[23:49:19] <andypugh> Very pale, except where it is red.
[23:49:34] <Jymmm> funny thing, I dont like beef ribs, only pork
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[23:50:11] <andypugh> I would imagine beef ribs would be huge?
[23:50:24] <Jymmm> andypugh: it's just cooked in the middle
[23:50:25] <andypugh> Like 4' long?
[23:50:43] <JT-Shop> cooking this Saturday http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/alton-brown/french-onion-soup-recipe/index.html
[23:50:51] <Jymmm> andypugh: Yeah, and I feel too fatty. pork ar about 4", beed are around 6"
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[23:51:27] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: let me know how it turns out
[23:52:05] <andypugh> Ah, yes, Onion Soup. Sounds vegetarian. Isn't.
[23:52:26] <Jymmm> andypugh: cheese?
[23:52:31] <Jymmm> beef broth?
[23:52:47] <andypugh> Mainly the beef and chicken broths, yes.
[23:52:57] <Jymmm> andypugh: you eat dairy/eggs?
[23:53:43] <andypugh> Yes. And cheese. I argue that you don't have to kill things to make cheese, even if they do.
[23:53:56] <andypugh> Mainly because I like cheese.
[23:54:14] <Jymmm> andypugh: ok, so for you, vegan is about the killing (primarily)?
[23:54:25] <andypugh> No, I am not vegan.
[23:54:36] <Jymmm> well, you know what I mean
[23:54:38] <andypugh> And it is all about not killing things.
[23:55:07] <Jymmm> poor lil defensive brocolli =)
[23:55:29] <andypugh> Actually, it is all about not paying anyone else to do something for me that I am not prepared to do myself.
[23:55:57] <Jymmm> andypugh: ah =) Yeah, I'd probably be the same way if I had to slaughter my food
[23:56:04] <Jymmm> andypugh: interesting http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1567233/
[23:56:33] <Jymmm> andypugh: I have NOT looked at their website, just the movie (on netflix)
[23:57:02] <andypugh> It is instantly filed in my head under "Almost certainly complete bollocks"
[23:57:20] <Jymmm> andypugh: the movie?
[23:57:33] <andypugh> The thesis
[23:58:07] <Jymmm> andypugh: Well, it is not the first time that I have heard of 100% vegetable diet actually reversing terminal cancer (for one).
[23:58:30] <andypugh> Can you prove more than correlation?
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[23:58:40] <andypugh> correlation =/= causation
[23:58:43] <Jymmm> andypugh: the guy is still alive?
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[23:59:04] <Jymmm> andypugh: causation no.
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[23:59:31] <andypugh> Average global temperatures have increased almost directly proportionally to the decrease in Pirates. That's a corelation. It isn't a causation.
[23:59:43] <Jymmm> andypugh: But, when colesteral (sp) is only produced in animal fat that we eat, you have to ponder what else.