#linuxcnc | Logs for 2012-06-14

[00:18:11] <JT-Shop> it's something in the config for sure, I just converted a 5i20 config to 5i25 and it works...
[00:18:27] <JT-Shop> maybe over the next few weeks I'll get the plasma to work
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[00:22:45] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop you want the ones i backed up?
[00:22:54] <Tom_itx> from your site?
[00:23:00] <Tom_itx> or are they not what you're running
[00:29:39] <Tom_itx> meh, the one i have is for the 5i20 anyway
[00:29:50] <Tom_itx> it may have settings you need though
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[00:31:54] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx: that is what I'm running
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[00:41:08] <Tom_itx> the home mdi works here
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[00:46:50] <JT-Shop> well it looks like OPEN_FILE="" IS THE KILLER
[00:47:01] <Tom_itx> woops
[00:47:22] <andypugh> I can see how it could be. But it really shouldn't be
[00:47:37] <JT-Shop> time for chow and cry in my wine for all the time spent on this silly problem
[00:48:07] <Thetawaves> http://ludens.cl/paradise/turbine/turbine.html
[00:48:08] <andypugh> Cry around the wine, it won't improve it.
[00:48:55] <JT-Shop> if I open a file, any file it works but a file must be open... that is why it worked sometimes and not others!
[00:49:07] <JT-Shop> somabitch
[00:49:23] <Tom_itx> wtf
[00:49:28] <andypugh> Thetawaves: That's OCD-level neat wiring in that box. I like it.
[00:49:37] <JT-Shop> ain't what I said
[00:49:49] <Tom_itx> :)
[00:50:29] <Tom_itx> so we must remember to open a file here, unplug a cable there, pull some ram....
[00:54:58] <andypugh> I wonder how many people have downloaded the LiveCD, failed, and given up?
[00:55:13] <Thetawaves> andypugh, read his pages on transformers and then read the one on thermal design, and then read all the rest of his shit, because he's amazing
[00:57:13] <andypugh> The OPEN_FILE thing is not going to catch the newbs. That can have a lower priority, but I suspect that a large number of folk will think "I want fast machining on a fast machine, so lets have lots of RAM"
[00:58:11] <roycroft> ram is overrated :)
[00:59:04] * roycroft thinks linuxcnc would run nicely on an old vme bus sparc, as those machines had such fast interrupt handling
[00:59:13] <roycroft> but who's gonna port it?
[01:00:55] <Tom_itx> Thetawaves, your pipes below frostline?
[01:01:07] <Thetawaves> not mine
[01:01:10] <Thetawaves> some chilean EE
[01:01:23] <Thetawaves> as he's in chile, they don't have much for freezing temperatures
[01:01:36] <Tom_itx> what about you?
[01:01:56] <Thetawaves> alaska has a very bad ice problem.
[01:02:44] <andypugh> Chile has in spots. It has ski resorts. But probably not where he is
[01:03:00] <Tom_itx> is this install in alaska or chile?
[01:03:08] <andypugh> Chile
[01:03:14] <Tom_itx> oh ok
[01:04:28] <Thetawaves> you would have to have a huge lake up in the mountains to run a microturbine year round here
[01:05:21] <andypugh> His bridge is less cool than the one that takes the water to my parents' village. That has a about an 8' arched dry-stone bridge over a stream, with the stone-built culvert buried in it. It looks like a random pointless foot-bridge about 2' wide.
[01:07:23] <Thetawaves> hah
[01:07:28] <Thetawaves> drinking water or power?
[01:07:35] <andypugh> Drinking
[01:07:42] <Thetawaves> cool
[01:09:13] <Valen> crap this guy is hardcore
[01:09:19] <andypugh> It's quite funny. EU regs say that the water has to be tested, and every year it comes back as unfit to drink. But that's it. So the residents carry in drinking it (for free).,
[01:09:29] <Tom_itx> i'm not even halfway thru the page yet
[01:09:34] <Valen> why is it unfit
[01:09:45] <Valen> his neighbours are hadcore too
[01:09:54] <andypugh> Manganese and faecal coliforms.
[01:10:04] <Valen> they dug what looks like 200-300 meters of trench by hand
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[01:10:25] <andypugh> (they say it should be boiled, which will solve half the problem)
[01:10:39] <Valen> RO filter *might* get the magnese
[01:10:48] <Valen> would get the bugs out
[01:10:58] <Valen> but eh if they are immune to it feh
[01:11:14] <Valen> they should be wary with visiting guests though
[01:11:22] <Valen> anybody with a compromised immune system
[01:11:39] <andypugh> The coliforms are probably because the culvert is just stone slab, two dry-stone walls, and a slab on top, and it runs through cow fields.
[01:13:08] <andypugh> In the time my folks have been there there (25 years) have been 4 deaths. They were all over 90.
[01:14:31] <Valen> just sayin, it could bother people who arent used to it
[01:14:44] <andypugh> My folks also deliberately seek out (and pay extra for) unpasteurised milk from a local farm. (because they prefer the taste).
[01:15:36] <andypugh> Valen: You might be right. We have no evidence of an actual problem. And the water tastes lovely.
[01:16:03] <Valen> the standards for drinking water are really rather high
[01:16:05] <r00t4rd3d> beaver feaver
[01:17:06] <ReadError> cutting yet r00t4rd3d?
[01:19:05] <r00t4rd3d> no
[01:19:20] <andypugh> Back to Chile. The horse really does seem like appropriate technology.
[01:20:04] <r00t4rd3d> im gonna buy a good router and mount
[01:21:15] <r00t4rd3d> k2 just sent be a quote for the bosch colt mount, 70 shipped. The router is only 83
[01:23:20] <andypugh> Be cheeky and ask. It's not like you don't know folk with CNC machines.
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[01:29:06] <r00t4rd3d> Registered : Jan 10 15:40:00 2005 (7 years, 22 weeks, 2 days, 09:47:00 ago)
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[01:37:36] <r00t4rd3d> 150 days after this weekend nicks will me mine!
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[01:39:41] <ReadError> -NickServ- Registered : Jul 06 00:46:12 2004 (7 years, 49 weeks, 2 days, 00:53:11 ago)
[01:43:19] <elmo40> anyone use autodesk inventor?
[01:43:40] <elmo40> me mine? :-P
[01:43:55] <alex4nder> yoh
[01:44:35] <elmo40> just wondering, is it for motion? like simulating things?
[01:45:08] <roycroft> it's somewhat like solidworks
[01:45:24] <elmo40> isn't autocad like solidworks?
[01:45:29] <roycroft> not at all
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[01:45:49] <roycroft> autocad is 2d, with some 3d capability
[01:46:01] <roycroft> but it's tedius to use it for 3d modelling
[01:46:06] <roycroft> tedious
[01:46:55] <roycroft> i've been using autocad for many, many years, but i'm considering switching to solidworks, as i'm not doing as much civil work as i used to
[01:47:13] <elmo40> thanks.
[01:47:16] <roycroft> i let my autocad support lapse, and upgrading autocad would now cost me about as much as purchasing solidworks
[01:47:24] <elmo40> I have been a solid works guy for years. around 10 or so.
[01:47:44] <elmo40> just wondering why I see more job adverts for Inventor instead of Solidworks
[01:47:47] <roycroft> i've played with it a bit, and it's impressive
[01:47:55] <roycroft> because autocad used to own the cad market
[01:48:02] <elmo40> LONG ago!
[01:48:10] <elmo40> and I don't see how they ever did, tbh.
[01:48:13] <roycroft> and when they came out with inventor they convinced their loyal users to migrate to that instead of jumping ship
[01:48:18] <elmo40> Solid Edge was great ;)
[01:48:30] <roycroft> they did back in the '80s because it was the only general-purpose cad software around
[01:48:47] <Valen> I use rhino ;->
[01:48:50] <ReadError> solidworks is the easiest IMO
[01:49:28] <roycroft> i found solidworks quite intuitive
[01:49:32] <ReadError> very
[01:49:35] <roycroft> moreso than any other 3d cad application i've used
[01:49:42] <ReadError> indeed sir, indeed
[01:49:56] <roycroft> if i had $8k to spare right now i'd likely jump on board
[01:50:02] <roycroft> but i don't
[01:50:15] <roycroft> and actually, even if i did, i have other things that would be higher priorities
[01:50:22] <roycroft> other things to get, that is
[01:51:31] <roycroft> autodesk financed my purchase of autocad over three years at zero percent
[01:51:33] <roycroft> that was nice
[01:51:40] <ReadError> how much did it cost?
[01:51:41] <roycroft> i had to purchase support at the same time
[01:51:51] <roycroft> $4k for the software, and $1.2k/year for support
[01:51:56] <ReadError> jeez
[01:52:02] <roycroft> and solidworks starts at $4k, iirc
[01:52:11] <roycroft> $8k is the pro version with all the bells and whistles
[01:52:52] <roycroft> it was like $200/month for three years for autocad
[01:53:10] <roycroft> kind of like a car payment on a used car
[01:53:29] <roycroft> my biggest issue with solidworks is that it only runs on windows
[01:53:41] <roycroft> when i purchased autocad it only ran on windows, and i never liked that
[01:53:54] <roycroft> but i doubt i'll be buying the mac version
[01:53:57] <Dave911> I use Inventor once in a while
[01:53:59] <roycroft> what i have works for me for now
[01:54:06] <roycroft> 2008 is the latest version i got
[01:54:17] <roycroft> it's just a pain to do anything 3d with it
[01:54:50] <Dave911> Autocad 3D is a waste of time
[01:55:02] <roycroft> with solidworks, it's sketch, extrude, assemble
[01:55:05] <roycroft> repeat all day long
[01:55:13] <roycroft> nice and easy
[01:55:21] <Dave911> Inventor and Solidworks are very similar
[01:55:32] <roycroft> if i bought it i'd probably not even have to bother taking any classes on it
[01:55:41] <roycroft> just a good book and burn some time
[01:55:45] <Dave911> But different enough that switching would be a pain
[01:55:57] <roycroft> i got an inventor trial license a while back
[01:56:09] <roycroft> inventor uses autocad terminology, and looks more like autocad
[01:56:12] <roycroft> so that part was nice and familiar
[01:56:26] <roycroft> but solidworks was a lot easier for me to pick up, and i say that as a long-term autocad user
[01:56:38] <Dave911> If you have a kid in college or know of one, they can buy Inventor school edition cheap.
[01:56:46] <roycroft> both software suites are quite capable, however
[01:56:57] <roycroft> yes, but one cannot use that version commercially
[01:57:10] <roycroft> it would be good to learn on
[01:57:36] <roycroft> anyway, it's nice that both products are out there
[01:57:42] <Dave911> right.. but if you just want to use some software for solid modeling for garage projects.. you aren't commercial anyway
[01:57:45] <roycroft> and my motto is "different strokes for different folks"
[01:57:51] <roycroft> yes
[01:57:56] <Dave911> They both work well
[01:57:58] <roycroft> for garage projects it's perfectly acceptable
[01:58:19] <roycroft> speaking of garage projects
[01:58:30] <roycroft> my gf has a water cooler that is leaking, and she's quite distressed about it
[01:58:38] <roycroft> it's in my garage, having arrived there yesterday
[01:58:47] <Jymmm> roycroft: water cooler?
[01:59:06] <roycroft> one of those things you put a big inverted bottle of water on and it makes the water cold
[01:59:15] <Jymmm> ah
[01:59:25] <roycroft> i had best figure out the source of the leak and repair it
[01:59:32] <roycroft> so she will quite stressing
[01:59:37] <Jymmm> wasn't sure if "water cooler" was Brit slang for toilet or something =)
[01:59:41] <roycroft> no
[01:59:43] * Valen is forseeing silicon in your future
[01:59:45] <roycroft> that would be the loo
[01:59:50] <Jymmm> ah
[01:59:51] <Valen> or the bog
[01:59:53] <roycroft> not that i'm british
[01:59:59] <roycroft> (and not that there's anything wrong with that)
[02:00:07] <Jymmm> so whats toodle loo then?
[02:00:17] <Valen> goodbye
[02:00:24] <Valen> one word
[02:00:28] <Dave911> get lost! ;-)
[02:00:42] <Jymmm> "cyashitface?"
[02:00:50] <roycroft> it means "good day for now - i'll meet up with you in an airport bathroom stall soon"
[02:00:59] <Jymmm> ah, gotcha
[02:01:06] <roycroft> "i'll be the one moving my left foot over into the next stall"
[02:01:14] <Jymmm> TMI
[02:01:32] <roycroft> talk to larry craig about that
[02:02:00] <Jymmm> so those cooler have a metal tub in them usually, so it has to be a fitting somewhere I guess
[02:02:07] <roycroft> yes
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[02:02:32] <roycroft> she sold a sofa recently, and when the purchasers were removing it from her family room they bumped it into the water cooler
[02:02:37] <roycroft> so they knocked something loose
[02:02:46] <Jymmm> those bastards!
[02:02:47] <roycroft> it should be easy to fix, once i find the source of the leak
[02:02:56] <roycroft> there are lots of plastic bits in it
[02:02:58] <Jymmm> Blue Dye #4
[02:03:01] <roycroft> but i have good glue
[02:03:14] <roycroft> i've used food coloring to locate leaks before
[02:03:16] <roycroft> it works quite well
[02:03:23] <Jymmm> =)
[02:03:24] <roycroft> i usually use red
[02:03:29] <roycroft> but blue would also work
[02:03:41] * roycroft has no real preference
[02:03:50] <Jymmm> Red Dye #4 is suppose to be toxic =)
[02:04:02] <roycroft> i have both red and blue dykem in my shop
[02:04:14] <andypugh> elmo40: I was elsewhere
[02:04:25] <andypugh> I use Inventor
[02:04:28] * roycroft toodles (but not to the loo)
[02:04:41] <andypugh> I used to use it as a full-time job
[02:04:47] <Jymmm> roycroft: if you do, you clean it up!
[02:04:51] <ReadError> anyone anodize ?
[02:04:58] <Valen> done a little of it
[02:05:09] <andypugh> ReadError: Danimal does, not seen him for a while
[02:06:00] <andypugh> elmo40: I really like Inventor, far more than anything else I have tried, it's really very good,
[02:07:54] <andypugh> It is especially good at solving mechanisms. You can assemble components and they will articulate like the real thing. I have nver crashed that solver, whereas I have crashed the Alibre solver with 4 spherical joints (not an entirely fair comparison given the price difference)
[02:08:14] <elmo40> ill watch some youtube vids on it and see how they play with it
[02:08:22] <Valen> that would be handy
[02:08:30] <Valen> also parametric stuff would be nice too
[02:10:11] <andypugh> But, if you are spending your own money, Alibre is about 70% of Inventor for 5% of the price
[02:10:33] <archivist> mechanisms in solidworks are very good, does gear mates so gearboxes and clock mechanisms can be modelled
[02:10:55] * Jymmm lol @ archivist =)
[02:11:16] <andypugh> As does Inventor. I suspect that none of them dare lack a feature the other has
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[02:35:47] <A1Sheds> http://www.old-woodworking-tools.net/rockwell-no-15017-drill-press.html found this today for $90
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[03:07:51] <r00t-Shed> ReadError
[03:07:53] <r00t-Shed> 23:05 INFO Psyco is not available (performance will probably suffer slightly)
[03:07:53] <r00t-Shed> 23:05 INFO Enabled 4 parallel local processes
[03:07:53] <r00t-Shed> 23:05 WARNING Failed to locate the fonts directory 'fonts' below '['/usr/lib/pymodules/share', '/usr/local/share/pycam', '/usr/share/pycam']'. Falling back to '/usr/share/librecad/fonts, /usr/share/qcad/fonts'.
[03:07:53] <r00t-Shed> 23:05 WARNING None of the fallback font directories (/usr/share/librecad/fonts, /usr/share/qcad/fonts) exists. No fonts will be available. Please install 'qcad-data' or 'librecad-data' if you need fonts.
[03:07:54] <r00t-Shed> 23:05 INFO Imported STL model: 839 vertices, 0 edges, 1444 triangles
[03:07:56] <r00t-Shed> 23:05 INFO Successfully converted SVG file to EPS file
[03:07:58] <r00t-Shed> 23:05 INFO Successfully converted EPS file to DXF file
[03:08:00] <r00t-Shed> 23:05 INFO DXFImporter: Imported DXF model (2D): 608 lines / 14 polygons
[03:08:02] <r00t-Shed> 23:06 INFO Toolpath generation time: 0.118066
[03:08:04] <r00t-Shed> 23:06 ERROR Failed to generate toolpath: No part of the contour model is within the bounding box.
[03:08:08] <r00t-Shed> 23:07 INFO Toolpath generation time: 0.120581
[03:08:10] <r00t-Shed> 23:07 ERROR Failed to generate toolpath: No part of the contour model is within the bounding box.
[03:08:12] <r00t-Shed> shit
[03:08:14] <r00t-Shed> sry
[03:08:16] <jdhNC> indeed.
[03:08:31] <r00t-Shed> i only had one highlighted
[03:08:39] <r00t-Shed> so i thought it would only copy on
[03:08:41] <r00t-Shed> e
[03:08:52] <r00t-Shed> 23:06 ERROR Failed to generate toolpath: No part of the contour model is within the bounding box.
[03:09:09] <r00t-Shed> pycam, anyone know how to fix that?
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[05:03:27] <alex4nder> hey
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[06:56:31] <DJ9DJ> moin
[06:58:28] <awallin> morn..
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[10:02:33] <awallin> anyone know anything about atom clocks? :)
[10:02:49] <elmo40> they are accurate? ;)
[10:03:00] <awallin> yeah..
[10:03:10] <Valen> zing
[10:03:25] <Valen> bugs me when people call rubidium clocks "atomic"
[10:07:04] <mrsun> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8cm015VCTI&feature=plcp hmm, kinda smart tip =)
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[10:16:41] <r00t4rd3d> cnc burrito machine:
[10:16:42] <r00t4rd3d> http://techcrunch.com/2012/06/13/the-singularity-is-near-nyu-student-builds-a-robot-that-builds-burritos/
[10:17:42] <r00t4rd3d> http://burritob0t.com/
[10:18:17] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.flickr.com/photos/laserpirate/6974038346/lightbox/
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[10:26:28] <awallin> did anyone order & build that style 3d printer? ord-bot?
[10:28:34] <awallin> hmh, can't find it in the makerslide store anymore, did the discontinue that kit?
[10:31:19] <Loetmichel> hmmm... anyone into making PCBs by isolation milling?
[10:31:21] <Loetmichel> http://pic.mylifesucks.de/temp/20120609-C-SpeedTrack-D-Display-03.jpg
[10:31:42] <Loetmichel> i had made a board for a fried lately, and find it very sharp...
[10:31:58] <Loetmichel> 0,2mm isolation trench, 0,4mm tracks
[10:32:16] <Loetmichel> (and shitty soldering, i was a bit sleep deprivated ;-)
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[11:22:27] <Loetmichel> HA, the friend has got it running... Note to self: soldering with sleep deprivation si bad. were 4 or 5 short in the board ... http://pic.mylifesucks.de/temp/20120609-C-SpeedTrack-D-Display-04.jpg
[11:28:11] <sendoushi> geeezzz
[11:28:26] <sendoushi> insane size
[11:34:12] <Loetmichel> 300mm height
[11:34:51] <Loetmichel> and about 200 leds PLCC2 with 120° and 800mCd each
[11:34:54] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[11:34:56] <Loetmichel> BRIGHT
[11:38:37] <Loetmichel> and its not very simplle build
[11:38:38] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=13308
[11:38:47] <Loetmichel> 4 layers aof plstic
[11:38:49] <Loetmichel> plastic
[11:40:18] <Loetmichel> 3 times 3mm PVC foam in green, gray, white, an 3mm PMMA red transparent sheet in the front and beneath that in the white pvc foam some 2mm white opaque pmma sheet in the seg,ments
[11:40:45] <Loetmichel> than the PCBs with the leds and below the green pvc the Controllers ;-)
[11:41:09] <Loetmichel> ... and my CNC can only move 200mm*110 mm
[11:41:31] <Loetmichel> so i had to make the segments, the frames and the led-PCbs alle in parts
[11:41:41] <Loetmichel> and then put them together
[11:51:20] <sendoushi> :O for you
[11:51:21] <sendoushi> eheh
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[11:55:10] <Loetmichel> http://youtu.be/st5Q45Lj7q4 <- runs... THAT was a work done JUST in time... the panel is needed tomorrow on a tractor-open-aiir-show
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[11:56:29] <Gromits> psha[work]: did you see my message to the dev mailing list?
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[11:58:19] <sendoushi> good job good job. i'm still searching around the cnc eheh and my work of course. my life isn't just this eheh
[12:00:43] <psha[work]> Gromits: yes
[12:04:10] <psha[work]> i'll catch tom here later today and fix that issue
[12:05:49] <Gromits> I am tom. I will be back online in a little while if you want to help me...
[12:06:07] <Gromits> Need to go run my kids to school...
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[12:23:25] <Tom_itx> Loetmichel, the trace on the right is mighty thin in that jpg
[12:24:37] <Tom_itx> ok, maybe it's just extra copper
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[12:39:55] <jthornton> Loetmichel, do you have any photos of making the acme nuts from the PU?
[12:40:30] <Tom_itx> jt did you see my link for tapp plastics yesterday for the urethane?
[12:41:09] <jthornton> yes, I was just looking at it but the urethane looked like a rubbery one
[12:42:03] <Tom_itx> shore 30
[12:42:11] <Tom_itx> flexible yes
[12:42:20] <Tom_itx> i'm sure they have other mold materials
[12:42:53] <jthornton> I usually get most things from mcmaster carr cause it is easy http://www.mcmaster.com/#urethane-casting-compounds/=hz1eyg
[12:43:51] <jthornton> I wonder what the 20% talc adds to the properties of the urethane?
[12:45:10] <Tom_itx> dunno
[12:45:11] <jthornton> 60D gp urethane is not too expensive to try out
[12:45:25] <Tom_itx> the stuff at mcmaster carr is shore 80 so alot stiffer
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[12:48:30] <jthornton> most of the designs for a router table that one finds on the web are junk
[12:48:45] <Loetmichel> JT-Shop: not really
[12:48:56] <jthornton> I like the Loetmichel design
[12:49:25] <jthornton> the wood ones I was speaking about
[12:49:55] <Loetmichel> but i have some to make not tooo far in the future.than i can make some photos
[12:50:23] <jthornton> ok, thanks
[12:50:43] <Loetmichel> the talc is there to reduce wear and provide a means of gliding
[12:50:49] <Loetmichel> without to need oil or fat
[12:51:02] <Loetmichel> so that no swarf would stick to the leadscrews
[12:51:35] <jthornton> ah ok, we used talc filled plastic for collated nails so the plastic would break when shot from the nail gun
[12:52:59] <Loetmichel> it works solely withouttalc, but talc is supposed to lenghten the maintainance-intervals
[12:53:55] <jthornton> that's interesting to know
[12:54:20] <jthornton> bbl
[12:55:16] <jdhNC> people cast acme nuts out of moglice
[13:00:17] <Loetmichel> jthornton: hmmm, you cant call "siebdruckplatte " wood. it isnt really that much wood left ;-)
[13:00:40] <Loetmichel> its plywood glued together with melamin based resin
[13:01:09] <Gromits> psha[work], let me know if/when you have time to figure out the plugin package issue. I will be around most the day, but in and out from computer. Will check periodically...
[13:01:22] <Loetmichel> which makes it indifferent tzo humidity, surprisingly rigid and does not "work" any lmore
[13:01:26] <Loetmichel> -l
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[13:47:44] <taiden> Hey all
[13:48:01] <taiden> anyone have a moment to help a newbie out with some latency issues?
[13:48:55] <skunkworks> taiden! did you get logged into the linuxcnc forum?
[13:49:07] <taiden> negative, registration is broken on my end
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[13:49:18] <skunkworks> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/linuxcnc_formerly_emc2/156308-high_latency_only_when_case.html
[13:49:35] <skunkworks> are you using a gmail account?
[13:49:47] <taiden> i tried registering first with a gmail account and then my school email
[13:49:58] <taiden> it gave me no errors, just spat me back to the registration form
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[13:50:31] <taiden> such is life :)
[13:51:03] <skunkworks> well there is a spam filter for gmail accounts - but I would think your school one would work
[13:51:28] <taiden> me as well, but who knows? I tried emailing the email for the webmaster listed on the site and it bounced
[13:51:35] <taiden> so I decided to try here
[13:51:57] <taiden> do you have a moment skunkworks? i dont want to impose
[13:52:24] <skunkworks> ask away.
[13:52:41] <taiden> we'll go with the most important first
[13:52:57] <taiden> latency is just fine with 10.04 and 8.04 on this machine running from the live cd
[13:53:13] <taiden> when installed to my harddrive i get HUGE spikes when opening programs that have not been opened since launch
[13:53:39] <skunkworks> what is the computer? does it have onboard video?
[13:53:52] <taiden> it is a bit of a frankenstein at the moment
[13:53:58] <taiden> and i have two computers to choose from
[13:54:03] <taiden> both yield the same results
[13:54:12] <taiden> one has onboard video (nvidia nforce2)
[13:54:24] <taiden> the other does not and is using an nvidia geforce 4 4600ti
[13:54:40] <skunkworks> couple of things. Don't install the closed source drivers especially for the video.
[13:54:43] <taiden> i have not used the closed source nvidia drivers on either as they just completely bork my latency figures
[13:54:53] <skunkworks> ah - good
[13:55:17] <taiden> i have two cpus i can use, both amd athlon xp flavors
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[13:55:23] <taiden> one 3000+ the other 1900+
[13:56:08] <taiden> and i have 768 mb of ddr266 and 512 mb of ddr333, each kept separate and only used with the appropriate cpu
[13:56:10] <skunkworks> wow - I have had good luck with amd's
[13:56:25] <taiden> the motherboard i am using now is
[13:56:38] <skunkworks> is there any power saving settings in the bios that you can tweek?
[13:56:46] <taiden> asus a7v8x
[13:56:58] <taiden> there is one line that basically says
[13:57:02] <taiden> power management:
[13:57:10] <taiden> "disabled" "enabled" "automatic"
[13:57:13] <taiden> i have it set to disabled
[13:57:42] <taiden> to reiterate: when rnning from the live CD the latency figures are perfectly fine, but not when installed to a harddrive
[13:58:02] <taiden> (i have been through quite a few hardware combinations since my post on cncforums)
[13:59:32] <taiden> i should mention that the motherboard i'm using advertises it's ability to vary fan speeds with temperature for quiet operation but i haven't found any way to turn that off
[14:00:01] <taiden> my other motherboard would pull 8k/9k when installed to a harddrive unless the case fan came on at which point it would do 5ms latency
[14:00:41] <pcw_home> Also check your hard drive SMART statistics, any transient hard drive errors will generate latency spikes
[14:01:58] <taiden> can you point me in a general direction for that? perhaps a place online to find documentation on the process?
[14:02:12] <pcw_home> I would just hardwire the fan so its on full time
[14:02:34] <taiden> well it never made sense to me because that was happening with the case open
[14:02:49] <skunkworks> you can go to - system -> administration -> disk utility and check the smart data for the drives
[14:03:03] <taiden> i'll try that now
[14:03:49] <taiden> if worse comes to worse could i just use a usb thumb drive to keep my linuxcnc configuration on?
[14:03:53] <taiden> and run it off the cd
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[14:07:31] <taiden> my installed version of hardy doesn't seem to have disk utility
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[14:07:40] <taiden> i am familiar with it from 10.04 though
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[14:15:06] <JT-Shop> taiden: the LinuxCNC forums has a much larger brain trust than the Zone, you might ask there too
[14:15:30] <pcw_home> I think I remember having to fetch the SMART util, that _was_ probably on Hardy
[14:16:43] <frallzor> a new tap later and it seems to be making 100% nice holes
[14:16:53] <taiden> JT-Shop: registration is broken for me :(
[14:17:25] <JT-Shop> are you using gmail?
[14:17:37] <taiden> i tried with gmail and my school email
[14:17:56] <taiden> i'll give it another go though
[14:18:05] <JT-Shop> I'd have to open up the spam guard if you wish to try again?
[14:18:15] <JT-Shop> one moment
[14:18:27] <taiden> thanks JT
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[14:19:42] <JT-Shop> start with a fresh browser window and register, then let me know when your done so I can turn it back on
[14:19:50] <taiden> i'll do it right now
[14:20:23] * frallzor is happy now
[14:21:00] <taiden> thanks, that worked great
[14:21:03] <taiden> i'm done registering
[14:21:44] <Loetmichel> hmm, where to find the linuxCNC forum?
[14:22:01] <Loetmichel> i'll think ON forum more isnt that hard to read
[14:22:04] <Loetmichel> :-)
[14:22:07] <Loetmichel> ONE
[14:23:07] <taiden> strange thing about the latency issue: i can copy things around on the harddrive without any latency problems but as soon as i open a new program it spikes
[14:23:18] <JT-Shop> did you get the conformation email?
[14:23:20] <taiden> you'd think they would produce the same result
[14:23:23] <taiden> yes I did
[14:23:26] <taiden> the email confirmation one
[14:24:09] <JT-Shop> BAM, your approved!
[14:24:17] <JT-Shop> happy posting
[14:24:32] <JT-Shop> did frallzor get a new tap?
[14:24:49] <taiden> BOOM! knowledge
[14:24:51] <taiden> thanks JT-Shop
[14:24:56] <JT-Shop> np
[14:25:00] <frallzor> JT-Shop indeed I did
[14:25:03] <JT-Shop> happy to help
[14:25:12] <JT-Shop> does it make better threads?
[14:25:16] <frallzor> seems the old one pretty much was a pile of tap-crap
[14:25:23] <JT-Shop> LOL
[14:25:43] <frallzor> couldn tighten the threads to breake by hand before nog
[14:25:49] <JT-Shop> I look at mine under a scope (can't see crap anyway) before use
[14:25:55] <frallzor> * now i cant even tear the pieces apart
[14:26:02] <JT-Shop> nice!
[14:26:12] <frallzor> so its all good now
[14:26:52] <JT-Shop> I'm fixing to fire off the plasma after pulling my hair out for two days :)
[14:27:30] <frallzor> =)
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[14:37:22] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Well, what was it?
[14:40:00] <JT-Shop> two things, ubuntu was deleting the real time kernel because it assumed I didn't want that kernel with 4Gb of ram
[14:40:49] <JT-Shop> second one and the one that started the problems is you HAVE to have a file loaded in Axis even one with just M2 in it before you can call a subroutine from the MDI line
[14:41:20] <Jymmm> ah, how weird on #2
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[14:42:38] <Jymmm> why are you using sub's in MDI? Isn't there widgets for such repetitive tasks?
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[14:47:53] <JT-Shop> what is a widget?
[14:49:03] <JT-Shop> answer http://linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/component/kunena/?func=view&catid=40&id=20912
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[14:51:27] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: like some of these http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Simple_LinuxCNC_G-Code_Generators
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[14:51:51] <syyl> ahoi
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[14:53:59] <Gromits> psha[work]?
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[14:55:51] <JT-Shop> Jymmm: I wrote some of them and they would not work for everything, did you read the post?
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[14:56:38] <Jymmm> I read it, but I'm still on the first cup of coffee =)
[14:58:49] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: hmm, its about 17:00 over here, i am in the prochess of finishing my workday ;-)
[14:59:23] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Question... You suggested using a Bimba as a pump and to just drop it in the tank. But how to cycle the piston if it's in the tank?
[14:59:34] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: =)
[15:00:24] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: or even a way to control the stroke 25%, 50%, etc
[15:00:52] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: I have one bimba I got at the flea market =)
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[15:03:11] <Jymmm> Oh, has anyone ever seen a tiny version of a muffler pipe expander that would work on 1/4 to 1" copper pipe by chance
[15:03:22] <Jymmm> or there abouts.
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[15:05:04] <JT-Shop> Jymmm: you need two cylinders, one for the pump and one to stroke the pump.
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[15:05:33] <JT-Shop> If you get a dual rod pump you can put spacer collars on the outside rod to function as rod stops
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[15:09:11] <Jymmm> This looks awfully expensive http://www.rothenberger-usa.com/fileadmin/fm_usa/Product_Images/11087_A1_Tube_Expander.jpg
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[15:16:00] <psha[work]> Gromits: sry, busy atm
[15:17:15] <Gromits> atm?
[15:17:24] <Gromits> all the morning?
[15:17:25] <archivist> at the moment
[15:17:31] <Gromits> gotcha, thanks
[15:17:48] <Gromits> If you tell me a time, I'll try to find you then...
[15:17:56] <Jymmm> 3am
[15:18:20] <mrsun> omg, never felt a more lose nut then the one to the Z on the milling machine
[15:18:22] <Gromits> works for me. are you the keeper of psha's schedule ;-)
[15:18:31] <mrsun> i can tilt the screw like 5cm when its fully inside the nut
[15:22:16] <Jymmm> mrsun: thats what she said
[15:22:47] <Jymmm> Gawd, I can not stand when you call a company and they tell you they dont do somethign when it's on theri frickin website that they do!
[15:29:08] <Connor> Jymmm: What company and what did they say they do on website but dont?
[15:31:08] <archivist> A Schaublin rep at a show the other week said my 120VM was a vertical mill! http://www.archivist.info/cnc/works2008b/P1010232.JPG
[15:31:47] <archivist> you can just make out the model on the left below the name
[15:32:15] <Connor> What? That makes no sense.
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[15:34:42] <archivist> normal for reps not knowing a companies full history, mine was probably made before he was born, 1956
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[15:37:40] <JT-Shop> 1956 was a good year, my tractor was born on that date
[15:37:41] <mrsun> archivist, thats worse then my lathe .... does he ever clean? :P
[15:37:43] <mrsun> whoever it is
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[15:38:21] <JT-Shop> clean lathes belong in a museum
[15:38:47] <mrsun> but thats a freakin horrow show :P
[15:38:50] <mrsun> horror
[15:39:22] <Jymmm> Connor: a plastic extrurder company that doesn't do some polymers even though theri website says they do
[15:39:24] <JT-Shop> but the swarf is neatly piled up by size and popularity
[15:39:26] <syyl> poor schaublin
[15:39:52] <archivist> mrsun, that was when it was at work before it came home, a clean there required hunting through the swarf for lost tools
[15:41:36] <archivist> swarf was often larger than the tools in use
[15:42:03] <mrsun> my leadscrew on the lathe is worn down by 0.2mm
[15:42:16] <mrsun> :/
[15:42:26] * JT-Shop waits for jd896 to arrive
[15:43:18] <archivist> when I got my Southbend the leadscew split nut would slide along the screw when closed
[15:43:29] <jdhNC> that's not a split nut
[15:43:43] <jdhNC> that's a 'thing that makes noise' maybe.
[15:43:51] <archivist> it sure is a split nut
[15:44:08] <archivist> a nice man made me a new one
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[15:58:15] <mrsun> http://www.repair--parts.com/Meat-Grinder-Parts-/South-bend-9-lathe-headstock-guards-partpix-1.jpg <-- what is that gear to the left called? ... and any idea how one can restore it? ... got an oughful sound comming from it and its worn down a god mm or two
[15:59:03] <Jymmm> mrsun: French Tickler
[15:59:56] <Jymmm> mrsun: Extreme far left, or the one just inside the the left mount?
[16:00:11] <Jymmm> s/the the/the far/
[16:00:12] <mrsun> the one behind the whole thing
[16:00:15] <mrsun> far left
[16:00:19] <mrsun> extreme far left :P
[16:00:47] <Jymmm> oh, heh, the inner left looks more worn than the extreme far left is why I asked =)
[16:00:55] <mrsun> Jymmm, not my lathe =)
[16:00:58] <Jymmm> could just be the pic
[16:01:00] <mrsun> just found a pic to show what gear i ment
[16:01:08] <mrsun> hell ic an go take a pic of mine ...
[16:02:10] <Jymmm> is it removable? is it really a long ass tube that's geared on the end?
[16:03:55] <mrsun> no not removable
[16:04:02] <mrsun> its milled out of the spindle shaft
[16:05:27] <mrsun> http://imagebin.org/216390
[16:06:30] <Jymmm> Pulling this out of my ass.... Pull the whole thing out, turn the end, weld a nice think chunk of tubing on it, and cut new gears. Else.... Find a part that has the outter gearing already and weld it over the existing point.
[16:07:03] <Jymmm> assuming you want to do this once, and only once.
[16:08:07] <Jymmm> mrsun: Googled "worn gear repair" and found this: http://www.columbiamachineworks.com/plant_maintenance/press_equipment_manufacturing/gear_repair.aspx
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[16:10:18] <Jymmm> mrsun: I'd call them and ask if they repair existing gears or just make a new one. If they do repairs, ask them how they do it as you have reservations (hint hint nudge nudge) and see how they do it.
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[16:15:40] <mrsun> i guess it would be buildable with silver solder also then recut the gears :P
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[16:18:59] <Jymmm> is it a hand crank gear?
[16:20:14] <mrsun> hand crank ?
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[16:23:29] <anonimasu> looks like 17-4 could be used for a waterjet intensifier
[16:24:03] <Jymmm> sounds like the score of last night's game.
[16:24:11] <anonimasu> 17-4ph...
[16:24:14] <anonimasu> stainless
[16:24:18] <Jymmm> ah
[16:24:22] <anonimasu> and have a good safety margin.
[16:24:42] <Jymmm> tough shit? elastic? brittle?
[16:24:54] <anonimasu> 345 mpa... if the max pressure it'd see in operation
[16:25:32] <Jymmm> I thought waterjet got up to 800K PSI or there abouts
[16:25:45] <anonimasu> 50kpsi
[16:25:52] <anonimasu> roughly 3000bar
[16:26:23] <Jymmm> 345 mpa == 50K PSI
[16:26:49] <Jymmm> wee missi'n a zero there =)
[16:27:58] <anonimasu> hehe
[16:28:37] <Jymmm> anonimasu: You have to click on each ASTM number to get any info http://www.highstrengthplates.com/standards.php?pid=29
[16:29:11] <Jymmm> fwiw =)
[16:31:54] <Jymmm> For those of you that live in winter snow areas, how hot does a pipe heater get?
[16:32:17] <anonimasu> looks like 35000psi would do very nicely for any cutting i'd do..
[16:32:38] <Jymmm> anonimasu: sandwiches?
[16:32:56] <anonimasu> steel.
[16:33:07] <Jymmm> or does that require higher psi?
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[16:33:18] <anonimasu> no
[16:33:24] <anonimasu> just if you need higher feedrates..
[16:33:31] <Jymmm> I think I heard 60K psi for sandwiches
[16:33:40] <_abc_> Is it okay to program M0's with a Z lift to change tools manually in a manual only machine?
[16:33:46] <anonimasu> yes
[16:34:08] <Jymmm> _abc_: Hey you I wanted to ask you something before you snuck out, but I forgot what it was.
[16:34:09] <_abc_> Do i have to edit all the T lines out and replace them with G0 Z#safe then M0?
[16:34:18] <_abc_> Jymmm: No, I did not ...
[16:34:28] <anonimasu> _abc_: change your postprocessor to do it for you
[16:34:45] <Jymmm> _abc_: It's on video dude, you did it and we have proof!
[16:34:57] <_abc_> Assume my gcode comes from tools I can't really edit. It's mostly 2D milling (routing), shallow
[16:35:05] <Jymmm> _abc_: the planted dns never lies!
[16:35:11] <Jymmm> DNA
[16:35:26] <_abc_> Jymmm: true, it always points to its real owner. Which means nothing.
[16:35:45] <anonimasu> _abc_: then yes
[16:35:56] <anonimasu> _abc_: maybe a script to help you with it?
[16:36:00] <_abc_> (assuming some idiots are not saving money on the DNA matching procedure so there are dupes - oh, wait, they *are* doing just that)
[16:36:08] <_abc_> anonimasu: sure I can sed -i it fine
[16:36:23] <_abc_> anonimasu: eventually I'll write a tool of sorts
[16:36:37] <Jymmm> _abc_: But the video of you violating that stuffed animal is hard evidence
[16:36:51] <_abc_> I am not Dutch >:)
[16:36:54] <Jymmm> lol
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[16:40:30] <anonimasu> Jymmm: like up to 1" steel..
[16:41:54] <Jymmm> anonimasu: Nice. But wth can you do with steel? Now cutting sandwiches, that's a really useful thing there!!!
[16:44:13] <Jymmm> http://www.kmtwaterjet.com/videos-photos.aspx
[16:44:43] <anonimasu> 11kw.. and 250MPa would cut 1" steel at 84mm/min
[16:44:52] <anonimasu> err 2500bar
[16:45:02] <anonimasu> with very good finish
[16:46:02] <Jymmm> pcw_home: Someone set the BART tracks on fire =)
[16:46:37] <anonimasu> 4$ per hour in cost for power to run that kind of machine..
[16:50:08] <_abc_> anonimasu: at what cutting speed?
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[16:50:19] <anonimasu> 100mm/min
[16:50:40] <anonimasu> calculating how much my mill costs in tooling per minute that's pretty cheap.. :p
[16:51:06] <_abc_> Well 6meters/hour is not bad at $4/hr heh. As long as you are into building ships and tanks. They probably bill $10,000/hour for the shop
[16:51:37] <anonimasu> well, given that it'd eleminate all 2nd ops in building the things i build that's pretty good
[16:51:38] <_abc_> Anyway, things are not very simple.
[16:52:02] <anonimasu> the oxyfuel runs at like 420mm/min
[16:52:09] <anonimasu> for 20mm steel
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[16:54:07] <anonimasu> that means like 15 minutes for my parts versus cutting them waiting to cool
[16:54:16] <anonimasu> sticking them on the mill and milling the flame hardened parts off -_-
[16:54:59] <anonimasu> which means eating up the edges of the inserts after like 4-5 parts.. at 100$ for the rough mill
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[17:01:14] <Jymmm> pcw_home: HOLY SHIT http://goo.gl/maps/ez8h SIGALERT CENTRAL!!!
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[17:08:05] <_abc_> ?
[17:08:10] <_abc_> You are in California?!
[17:08:14] <Jymmm> yep
[17:08:19] <_abc_> Heh
[17:08:22] <Jymmm> ?
[17:08:27] <taiden> Hey all, thanks for the help earlier. I got the latency issue sorted
[17:08:39] <skunkworks> taiden: what fixed it?
[17:08:41] <_abc_> I'm amazed they still allow cars with engines there. They should all be upgraded to 'Flinstones' foot power.
[17:09:06] <taiden> skunkworks: I ended up making sure only the HDD was the only IDE peripheral
[17:09:16] <taiden> skunkworks: now latency is locked in at 7.8k/8.7k
[17:09:20] <skunkworks> oh - interesting...
[17:09:29] <skunkworks> was it another hd or cdrom?
[17:09:35] <_abc_> taiden: killing the thread that watches sr0 can help
[17:09:37] <Jymmm> Worse traffic in 20 years they're saying.
[17:09:54] <taiden> i removed the cdrom drive from the secondary ide channel
[17:09:55] <_abc_> Jymmm: All I can see is green there. You should see Eastern Europe at peak hours.
[17:10:09] <_abc_> taiden: try to kill the thread that watches sr0
[17:10:27] <_abc_> ubuntu is a really bad choice for real time ops imho, it is a desktop os with lots of background tasks
[17:10:57] <Jymmm> _abc_: All those red circles with lines are SIGALERTS, that's when you're seriosuly FSCKED
[17:11:20] <_abc_> Jymmm: I only saw a few on the map you posted
[17:11:23] <taiden> _abc_: I will look into that thanks
[17:11:25] <_abc_> Jymmm: nothing to write home about
[17:11:32] <taiden> I'm off to finish up the cnc router! thanks again all
[17:11:48] <_abc_> taiden: with cdrom drive connected, with or without media, ps -auxw|grep sr0 will show it
[17:12:15] <taiden> Thank you! I'll give it a go later this afternoon
[17:12:51] <Jymmm> _abc_: There are about 50 over a 200 SQ MILE area
[17:12:56] <_abc_> I have a list of kills I put into /etc/rc.local with things which are useless and must be stopped on ubuntu lts10.04 to ensure nothing bad happens latency wise
[17:13:07] <_abc_> The list is about 10 items long and growing.
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[17:13:40] <Jymmm> _abc_: you have to click to close the left side panel
[17:13:43] <taiden> _abc_: have you made a thread about that? I have a hunch that info would have helped greatly to start. would love to see the list regardless
[17:13:52] <_abc_> Jymmm: You have some of the widest and fastest highways in the world, stop complaining. We live in a crowded city built for horse and buggy traffic. Hush now.
[17:14:14] <_abc_> taiden: I will probably post to the wiki eventually
[17:14:31] <_abc_> I wrestled with some balky old pc hardware these days, and learned a lot in the process >:)
[17:14:38] <Jymmm> _abc_: Not when a 45minute trip takes 7 hours.
[17:14:47] <_abc_> Jymmm: you can walk, you know...
[17:14:53] <skunkworks> heh
[17:15:01] <Jymmm> _abc_: 100 miles?
[17:15:17] <_abc_> Oh, wait, you can't walk, you don't have sidewalks and someone would bump or shoot you if you tried.
[17:15:33] <skunkworks> we Americans don't believe in walking... from what I gather
[17:15:48] <Jymmm> _abc_: We have sidewalks, just not cobblestone roads =)
[17:15:59] <_abc_> skunkworks: Did you see the hitchiker who is writing a blog about the kindness of America, who got shot in Montana...
[17:16:43] <_abc_> Jymmm: Cobblestone is good, you can remove it and put it back. Asphalt needs to be put back *evenly* something our roadies unlearned and it cracks and develops holes when it freezes/thaws
[17:17:40] <_abc_> Anyway, let's move on heh.
[17:18:09] <skunkworks> _abc_: unfortunately - yes - I did see that article
[17:19:02] <_abc_> And we do have trains which take longer than 7 hours to go 60km on occasion
[17:19:08] <_abc_> People riot a bit when it happens
[17:19:09] <andypugh> Where to I put commands to auto-execute when I log in to the Ubu box via ssh?
[17:20:27] <_abc_> ~/.ssh/rc
[17:20:40] <Jymmm> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_UpLtGEWoY&feature=player_embedded#!
[17:20:48] <_abc_> (careful with that, you can lock yourself out)
[17:21:29] <Jymmm> andypugh: what kind of commands?
[17:21:43] <andypugh> export LIBGL_ALWAYS_INDIRECT=yes
[17:21:44] <_abc_> andypugh: for stuff which needs to be run as root put it in /etc/ssh/sshrc , it will run for *each* ssh login user
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[17:22:17] <_abc_> andypugh: that you put into ~/.ssh/environment
[17:22:22] <andypugh> I have found that that allows me to run linuxcnc/axis through X
[17:22:33] <andypugh> So I can have the axis screen on my Mac
[17:22:38] <_abc_> andypugh: I don't need that to run it through X11..
[17:22:48] <_abc_> Oh on may
[17:22:48] <Jymmm> andypugh: Honestly, I would use screen so you can have some commands stateful instead of automagically. For that you could just add an alias to make it convienant.
[17:23:11] <_abc_> Jymmm: screen is not needed with ssh remoting
[17:23:14] <andypugh> Jymmm: A cunning plan, but I am bound to forget it
[17:23:36] <Jymmm> _abc_: to be stateful between logouts it is
[17:23:42] <_abc_> andypugh: just do ssh -f linuxcncuser@linuxcncmachine linuxcnc /some/where/myconfig
[17:23:45] <Jymmm> err disconnects
[17:23:49] <_abc_> andypugh: that will do all you need
[17:24:07] <Jymmm> andypugh: banner baby, banner =)
[17:24:22] <_abc_> Jymmm: you don't want to be stateful with an application split in the middle by 2000km of cloud
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[17:25:07] <_abc_> andypugh: also, when you do that, you likely need that env in your local machine's env
[17:25:15] <Jymmm> _abc_: far better than a command that executes upon login, if something snafu's you have a way out.
[17:25:57] <_abc_> Jymmm: screen does not make an X11 remote app survive a net outage
[17:26:46] <Jymmm> he said ssh, not x over ssh (or was that an oversight on my part)
[17:26:47] <_abc_> I am more worried about linuxcnc lts10.04 hosts exposing a lot of unnecessary (imho) ports on the local net/internet (if open for network access).
[17:27:02] <_abc_> Jymmm: he did not say it but I inferred it...
[17:27:13] <Jymmm> it was ssh, fsck x =)
[17:27:16] <_abc_> The ssh line I showed above works perfectly
[17:27:29] <andypugh> I am not planning on running a machine this way, it is just that the Linuxcnc development PC is headless. And caseless. In fact it is just a motherboard and an ethernet cable.
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[17:27:37] <_abc_> Jymmm: you can't really run axis over ssh heh. Unless you use X forwarding through ssh.
[17:27:40] <_abc_> Which is what he does.
[17:27:47] <_abc_> And what I did yesterday, succesfully.
[17:28:04] <Jymmm> been there, done that. sucks.
[17:28:13] <_abc_> Actually it runs great
[17:28:31] <_abc_> But using vncserver as x server works better and survives network crashes... better than screen
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[17:29:22] <Jymmm> I wouldn't use x like that anyway.
[17:30:14] <Jymmm> I tried the remote only to see if a low end machine with good latency with work from a laptop as the gui
[17:30:35] <_abc_> And it didn't?
[17:30:37] <psha> Gromits: here?
[17:30:52] <Tom_itx> wonder where i can find cad for a pc psu plug insert
[17:30:56] <Jymmm> Yeah, it did. But I used a crossover cable
[17:31:07] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: google "iec cad"
[17:31:24] <_abc_> I ran linuxcnc remotely with realtime on 700MHz/256MB single core cpu, and control host/axis on a modern laptop through lan. Runs *better* than locally on the weak machine...
[17:31:44] <_abc_> And yes crossover cable but also local network hub. Same result.
[17:32:44] <Jymmm> basically pseudo IPKVM
[17:32:55] <Jymmm> a la laptop
[17:33:31] <Jymmm> no need to drag display kybd mouse around
[17:35:15] <Jymmm> I wonder if ad-hoc wifi would be able to keep up
[17:35:52] <_abc_> It should, with vnc
[17:35:59] <_abc_> vnc is screen for x11, in a nutshell
[17:36:04] <_abc_> tightvnc more so
[17:36:23] <Jymmm> no vnc, remote axis. It's built into emc
[17:36:35] <_abc_> Most importantly, with vnc, a slow or congested network does *not* slow down the application on the realtime machine
[17:36:46] <_abc_> It only slows down the display on the remote machine.
[17:37:16] <_abc_> I would not use remote axis over wifi or over wan
[17:38:09] <Jymmm> _abc_: you do realize that emc can have concurrent controls setup, right?
[17:38:18] <_abc_> Sure, so?
[17:38:43] <_abc_> I see that as a problem, really. There should be a very clear 'token' based active control at any one time
[17:39:25] <_abc_> Anyway, back to nitty gritty work. I need to do something in php. barf.
[17:39:53] <Jymmm> lol
[17:41:13] <Jymmm> php is fine for most web things.
[17:41:40] <alex4nder> ...
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[17:43:16] <Jymmm> alex4nder: ?
[17:46:34] <Jymmm> Who would generally have stainless steel (1/8 to 1/2" diameter) rods locally on the shelf? Any particular industry? Welding? Food Handling? Something else?
[17:50:10] <Tom_itx> boating
[17:52:08] <Tom_itx> delorian
[17:53:18] <Tom_itx> shark cages
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[17:54:31] <Tom_itx> you asked a similar question 6mo ago
[17:56:19] <mrsun> i get mine from a cnc workshop thingie here
[17:56:22] <mrsun> if i need small peices
[17:56:24] <mrsun> pieces
[18:00:42] <Gromits> psha, still here?
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[18:05:22] <Gromits> here, there, everywhere
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[18:11:32] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: And I probably didn't get any good responses at that time =)
[18:12:31] <cradek> you would, if you'd ordered the stuff back then
[18:13:04] <cradek> (that's meant as a serious answer)
[18:13:06] <Jymmm> You know those drive thru car washes that have a conveyor in the ground that "push" your car thru? Is there something like that use on a smaller scale?
[18:13:42] <Jymmm> cradek: I dont like to order anything, I rather have a local source whenever possible.
[18:14:09] <cradek> I understand, but that guarantees that you pay as much as possible for each piece
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[18:15:16] <Jymmm> Not really. When I've taken the time to find local sources, I'm far ahead cost wise when you add in shipping/freight fees much of the time.
[18:15:34] <cradek> that's sure true if you make a habit of ordering one piece at a time
[18:16:25] <Jymmm> I was ordering cardbord boxes by the bundle (50-100 qty each). the shipping cost to order them was 60% of the cost of the boxes themselves.
[18:16:57] <cradek> haha, I laugh at the idea of shipping a box of boxes
[18:17:24] <Jymmm> LOL, yeah, but it's true. Uline.com
[18:17:52] <cradek> food handling and medical strike me as the ways to use the most stainless
[18:18:03] <Jymmm> I was going to ORDER1000 boxes to save on cost, but freight was outragious.
[18:18:27] <cradek> but neither are going to be excited about supplying occasional stock to a hobbyist
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[18:19:56] <Jymmm> I'm sure there is SOMETHING out there that will fit the bill, just have to find the right nitch market to exploit.
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[18:20:56] <Jymmm> Like I said with the boxes, now I have a place that will make me any size custom boxes I want in small quantities locally win win all around.
[18:21:12] <cradek> cool
[18:21:41] <Jymmm> 10 pcs even, just give him the dimensions, he has a box making machine in the back room
[18:22:02] <Jymmm> (and it looks like it collects a lot of dust too)
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[18:23:04] <Gromits> Hello psha, you there yet?
[18:26:45] <Connor> Thinking about a enclosure for my mill. Trying to decide how DEEP to make it.
[18:27:19] <Jymmm> Connor: coolant?
[18:27:23] <Connor> Two way of going. Make it as deep as the existing chip-tray and wide enough for the table in each direction..
[18:27:25] <Connor> Yea.
[18:27:48] <Connor> let the vise overhang the front and use a curtain.
[18:28:12] <Connor> OR, make it deep enough for the vise, and the front-mount Y stepper..
[18:28:23] <Connor> Only consideration is shop space.
[18:28:24] <psha> Gromits: here :)
[18:29:19] <Connor> and, how much room it'll cost me with my workbench seeing as the mill next to it..
[18:36:28] <Jymmm> Connor: i mention the coolant to mae it deep enough to collect and recycle coolant without flooding your shop =)
[18:39:44] <Connor> Yea. It's just a matter of how to lay it out and what makes it usable.
[18:41:06] <Connor> Heck, I was even looking at moving the machine to different part of the shop.. But just accrued to be, doing so, might limit my ability to machine long parts.
[18:42:07] <Connor> Hot Water heater on one side, wall on the other. 5' span in the middle.. but, if I want to machine something long.. (80/20, drilling pockets for ends etc) then.. I would be limited in size..
[18:42:12] <archivist> putting machines at an angle is often done to allow long parts in cramped conditions
[18:42:32] <Connor> no angles in this shop.
[18:42:52] <archivist> rotate the machine a bit
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[18:43:56] <jdhNC> mine is currently 45 degrees between a table saw and a 9x20 lathe
[18:44:18] <archivist> like this set of three at about 20 deg (cannot see far one) http://www.archivist.info/cnc/works2008/P1010200.JPG
[18:44:21] <Connor> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=160577&d=1338155020
[18:44:27] <Connor> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=160576&d=1338155012
[18:44:28] <jdhNC> the saw is currently holding my LCNC box/monitor
[18:45:06] <Connor> http://www.ivdc.com/cnc/shop/ <-- before mill, and MDF box to hold vacuum
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[18:45:28] <archivist> I have a 19 inch rack on wheels with tooling I can move around
[18:45:54] <jdhNC> I dont' feel so bad about my clutter now :)
[18:46:12] <Connor> Eh? You calling me cluttered ?
[18:46:24] <archivist> clutter++
[18:46:52] <Connor> http://www.ivdc.com/cnc/conversion/mill_in_shop3.jpg
[18:46:58] <Connor> good view from doorway.
[18:48:00] <Connor> enclosing the mill would require 5' So all the way over to the left side of that work bench, and about center of the battery on the wood grain shelf
[18:48:39] <jdhNC> have you figured how how much Y travel the vise takes up?
[18:48:53] <Connor> no.
[18:49:02] <jdhNC> overhang + how far back the head is relative to the table
[18:49:07] <Connor> I can go check..
[18:49:15] <jdhNC> nah, just curious
[18:49:35] <jdhNC> I was thinking of hacking the back part off at the back of the vise
[18:49:45] <jdhNC> but, not sure that really buys any more that that much.
[18:50:30] <archivist> I ran out of travel and clearance on the horizontal, so hanging a plate on the bed and mounting stuff off to the side of the table
[18:51:06] <jdhNC> I need a collet rack, and a place to put it.
[18:52:03] <Connor> 1.25" to the back of the column (with way cover removed.
[18:52:27] <Connor> and 5.125" overhang on the front, (~6" if you count the nob on the vise)
[18:52:38] <Connor> that's with vise centered mounted.
[18:53:11] <jdhNC> I have mine mounted offcenter to the right so I have some table space with it mounted
[18:53:13] <Connor> ~ 26" from back edge of existing chip tray to tip of the rear stepper motor shaft (and/or stepper cover)
[18:55:32] <Connor> Yea, if I enclose it. I'll have to move the collect rack, the hex drivers and the clamp set from the wall..
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[19:02:39] <Gromits> try this again. psha?
[19:05:22] <cradek> the standard way to handle this is that you say whatever you want, preceded with psha:, and he'll probably read back
[19:05:59] <cradek> (I think a lot of people will just not answer queries of the form NAME?)
[19:06:50] <Gromits> we have been trying to get on here at the same time so he can get his dependencies worked out on a package. Bantering questions won't help...
[19:07:29] <psha> here
[19:07:32] <Gromits> hey
[19:07:34] <Gromits> ok.
[19:07:35] <cradek> see it worked :-)
[19:07:44] <Gromits> heh
[19:07:47] <psha> )
[19:07:54] <Gromits> I will go sit in front of the machine...
[19:07:56] <psha> problem is that in 2.5 there are conflicts clause
[19:08:06] <psha> so rt version conflicts sim and vice versa
[19:08:15] <psha> so linuxcnc-fake package has to go
[19:08:47] <Gromits> it was removed (I think) when I (RE)installed Linuxcnc
[19:08:58] <Gromits> booting machine....
[19:09:58] <psha> cradek: is there linuxcnc2.5 packages for something newer then lucid?
[19:10:14] <psha> requirement for python << 2.7 is a bit too strict
[19:10:55] <Gromits> Synaptic Package Manager shows linuxcnc-fake and linuxcnc-fake-sim are both NOT installed
[19:11:20] <cradek> psha: sim yes
[19:11:28] <cradek> I have no idea what linuxcnc-fake are
[19:12:08] <psha> cradek: that was solution to provide only one build for both rt and sim
[19:12:13] <psha> but now i has to go away
[19:13:51] <psha> wow, precise has libc6 2.15
[19:14:15] <Gromits> when i try to install camunits-plugins-emc it can't due to dependency on linuxcnc-sim
[19:14:35] <psha> yes, and not i'll try to solve it
[19:14:38] <Gromits> when I try to install linuxcnc-sim, it removed linuxcnc and installed linuxcnc-fake-sim
[19:15:07] <Gromits> yeah, I was just recapping 'cause I know cradek was dying to know ;-)
[19:15:35] <psha> s/not/now/
[19:15:45] <psha> need to go to bed ;)
[19:16:07] <Gromits> can I ask you one other thing before you go to be?
[19:16:11] <Gromits> bed
[19:16:27] <psha> but first i'll try to solve dependency peoblem
[19:16:41] <Gromits> oh goody. Can I still ask you one other thing? :-)
[19:16:52] <psha> wazup? :)
[19:17:27] <Gromits> back in April there was a thread on the email list whose subject was "Glade, reload/load file objects not working?" Can you go back and dig that up (or I can forward it to you) and let me know if anything can be done?
[19:17:59] <Gromits> when you have time, no emergency
[19:18:00] <psha> wait a bit
[19:18:12] <Gromits> if it was an emergency I would already be dead :-)
[19:18:29] <psha> file open action was fixed a while ago
[19:18:48] <Gromits> after April (I assume)?
[19:19:00] <psha> or that was just gladevcp thing
[19:19:28] <Connor> psha: We fixed gladevcp the other day with file/open
[19:19:37] <psha> ok
[19:19:39] <Connor> only to find that Axis doesn't show that file
[19:19:42] <psha> that was not reload, just file/open :)
[19:19:43] <Gromits> We need to issue a reload (or have a reload object in glade panel) after touch off and can't seem to make it happen
[19:19:58] <psha> Gromits: it's really not reloaded or just not shown in axis?
[19:20:18] <psha> test is simple
[19:20:19] <Gromits> Hmm. There is one I hadn't thought of...
[19:20:21] <psha> take file, load it
[19:20:26] <psha> replace it with new one
[19:20:28] <psha> push button
[19:20:33] <psha> mill :)
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[19:20:50] <Gromits> yes, I know that is how I found the problem to begin with!
[19:20:56] <psha> see that your mill is destroyed by crappy program while axis still show you that everything is ok:)
[19:21:08] <Gromits> Well, I thought it wasn't reloading at all, but will test
[19:21:10] <psha> is it your case?
[19:21:28] <Gromits> will let you know when I get chance to test
[19:21:54] <Gromits> So is there a way to make Axis update (assuming that it is ACTUALLY reloading)?
[19:22:25] <psha> something from axis remote i guess
[19:22:29] <Connor> yea, that was my question the other day.
[19:23:11] <Gromits> is that something.lib, or something.lib.so ? ;-)
[19:24:53] <psha> tk magic
[19:26:16] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Kinda cool http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4GqXchuO6g
[19:27:12] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: the roller-switch is trippy =)
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[19:30:13] <Gromits> has that question been asked on the dev (or users) list? Perhaps one of the Axis developers might know the magic spell or force an udpate?
[19:30:23] <Gromits> or==to
[19:32:51] <psha> wheeha
[19:33:19] <Gromits> is that elation?
[19:33:29] <Gromits> or exhaustion?
[19:34:02] <psha> emc-camunits scheduled for build
[19:34:13] <psha> watch for 0.0.9 version
[19:34:25] <psha> fake is not needed now
[19:34:31] <Gromits> so if i installed the new camunits I will get plugins too?
[19:34:40] <psha> yes
[19:34:46] <Connor> What is camunits ?
[19:35:01] <Gromits> cool, many thanks!
[19:36:00] <Gromits> camunits is a way to connect a video camera up
[19:36:11] <Connor> Oh Cool.
[19:36:28] <Connor> For center/edge finding? Or just remote viewing ?
[19:36:41] <Gromits> You can set up a tab, have a camera with reticule.
[19:36:59] <Gromits> And, when 0.0.9 is there, a DRO in the window as well :-)
[19:37:33] <Connor> Gromits: What kinds of camera's ?
[19:38:16] <Connor> <-- Would like to be able to stream camera from shop to office with remote E-Stop so i can monitor jobs while they run and not have to be in front of machine.
[19:38:28] <Gromits> Well, we are using a few different kinds. A couple are older xbox 360 video cams from ebay ($5).
[19:38:58] <Connor> I about fell asleep in the chair waiting for a job to finish in the shop.. :(
[19:39:25] <Connor> concerned streaming video from CNC machine might cause RT errors or too much latency.
[19:39:28] <Gromits> Watching it on video will keep you awake for sure ;-)
[19:39:48] <jdhNC> for your use, a wifi cam might be better
[19:39:53] <Connor> Gromits: No, I can just do other stuff.. in stead of watching it do the same old thing.
[19:40:34] <Gromits> Yeah, on my small mill I was getting realtime errors. I have a config with camera for measuring, etc and one without for milling.
[19:40:39] <Connor> I'll take Odin (My Mech Warfare robot) and set him up in the shop.. :)
[19:40:54] <Gromits> He'll stay awake
[19:41:13] <Connor> He can shoot the e-stop with airsoft pelts if something goes wrong. :)
[19:41:30] <Jymmm> I saw shoot the operator
[19:41:32] <Jymmm> say
[19:41:33] <Gromits> exactly
[19:41:46] <Connor> jdhNC: Why 3/16" vs 1/4" on that part your making ?
[19:41:50] <Connor> Jymmm: Blah
[19:42:02] <jdhNC> to fit in the .203 hole
[19:42:04] <Gromits> He can't shoot the operator because he is asleep in a chair
[19:42:05] <Jymmm> dead-man switch and tesla coil connected to operator too
[19:42:09] <Gromits> in another room
[19:42:10] <Connor> .203 hole ?
[19:42:19] <Connor> that the through hole ?
[19:42:23] <jdhNC> yes
[19:42:23] <Tom_itx> i'd fire that operator
[19:42:35] <Connor> Oh. I just spot drilled those and used normal drill bits.
[19:42:39] <jdhNC> #10 SHCS
[19:42:49] <jdhNC> but you hate changing tools
[19:42:56] <Jymmm> _abc_: Oh, I know what is was.... hole saws that you had mentioned.
[19:43:06] <Connor> Yea. But.. I was doing it manually too.
[19:43:07] <Jymmm> _abc_: of hole drills
[19:43:09] <Jymmm> or
[19:43:19] <jdhNC> end mill, spot drill, through drill
[19:43:32] <Connor> then boring head.
[19:43:51] <Tom_itx> Gromits, is the camera thing something being added to linuxcnc and is it similar to this? : http://www.miketreth.mistral.co.uk/centrecam.htm
[19:43:51] <jdhNC> I'm going to see how the entire thing does in one shot with a 3/16"
[19:44:12] <Connor> yea. I don't have a 3/16" and my 1/8" broke. :(
[19:44:20] <Connor> smallest I got now is 1/4"
[19:44:25] <Connor> Need to buy some new ones
[19:44:38] <Jymmm> _abc_: I can't find anything like those, have a link by chance?
[19:44:42] <jdhNC> I generated paths for spot drilling, through hole drilling and counterboring also
[19:44:54] <jdhNC> with the HSS counterbores
[19:45:40] <_abc_> Jymmm: what? Find what?
[19:45:43] <Connor> I have a little file rack (http://www.ontimesupplies.com/office-furniture/file-and-storage-cabinets/file-cabinets/SAF5278BL.html?ref=googlebase) that I'm going to add 2 MDF bottoms too and convert into a tool cart.
[19:45:51] <jdhNC> I got a pair of 3/16 HSS end mills from uxcell.com via ebay. They are probably crap. I have some TiN coated 3/8" shanked 3/16" also
[19:46:00] <Jymmm> _abc_: Those "hole drills" you mentioned yesterday
[19:47:32] <psha> Gromits: ready
[19:47:48] <_abc_> Jymmm: ah they are tube drills used for drilling hard materials like ceramics and glass
[19:47:58] <Gromits> i'll look!
[19:48:00] <_abc_> Jymmm: diamond powder edged or used with diamond slurry
[19:49:54] <Connor> Gromits: You mounting the camera direct in the spindle? Or is it on something else and you use offsets ?
[19:51:57] <_abc_> Jymmm: http://www.ebay.com/itm/5-Pc-Diamond-Hole-Saw-Set-For-Tile-Glass-Marble-Cutting-5-32-1-2-Saws-/280896969923?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4166c39cc3
[19:52:07] <_abc_> etc there are thousands of variants
[19:52:28] <_abc_> Jymmm: with and without bree^h^h^h^hholes
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[19:52:47] <Jymmm> _abc_: Ok, just can't find them, "tube drill" brings up tapered bits, "core drill" brings up every general contractor "hole saw"
[19:53:18] <_abc_> it is a hole saw of sorts. Just a small detail: most diamond coated drills of that kind are soft metal...
[19:53:41] <Jymmm> =)
[19:54:27] <Jymmm> heh http://www.amazon.com/Neiko-Heavy-5-Piece-Diamond-Marble/dp/B000QVAGIE/ref=pd_sxp_grid_pt_0_1
[19:55:58] <Jymmm> _abc_: So, the diamond is to smooth out the bulle^h nose of the material huh? ;)
[19:56:16] <_abc_> no, you get rid of that part
[19:56:55] <_abc_> Anyway older saws of that kind were not diamond coated and made of stainless of other high quality steel. You used them with a slurry with diamond powder which provided the abrasive effect.
[19:57:09] <Jymmm> right
[19:58:08] <Jymmm> Did I misss something here... didn't you say the diamond coated bits use a softer metal, and yesterday say they are harder, or is the hard the diamondless older ones?
[20:00:28] <Gromits> Thanks psha, working!
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[20:04:10] <psha> Gromits: nice, i'll remove fake package
[20:04:12] <psha> bb now
[20:04:23] <Gromits> ok, thanks!
[20:04:50] <_abc_> Jymmm: the non coated old bits are very hard
[20:05:09] <_abc_> Jymmm: they need to push the diamond slurry against ceramic and the slurry needs to eat the ceramic, not the bit
[20:05:25] <Jymmm> pcw_home: This is a VERY VERY OLD (10+ years I"m guessing) list of Bay Area resources, but some of them might be good for one-off items/prototyping http://www.4crawler.com/Welding/supplies.shtml
[20:06:14] <Jymmm> _abc_: Right, I understand. Just finding those older non-coated ones, or at least the name they go by is the tricky part =)
[20:06:20] <_abc_> yep
[20:06:32] <Jymmm> pcw_home: Be sure to call to see if they even exist still =)
[20:06:40] <_abc_> They are still used for ultrasonic machining afaik
[20:06:49] <_abc_> Tungsten was one material mentioned...
[20:07:19] <Jymmm> _abc_: that sounds expensive, even more than barrel stock I'd imagine.
[20:07:27] micges_ is now known as micges
[20:08:33] <Jymmm> pcw_home: Quement's doesn't even exist anymore, not even the building. It's the new library =)
[20:08:34] <_abc_> I don't know.
[20:08:56] <Jymmm> _abc_: =)
[20:09:26] <Jymmm> pcw_home: And the last industrial surplus in the area is no more... Triangle Machinery & Tool
[20:09:33] <Jymmm> sniff sniff
[20:10:06] <Jymmm> They had everything.. linear rails, ballscrews, gears, etc
[20:10:07] <_abc_> fleabay seems to sell interesting stuff from time to time
[20:10:19] <_abc_> I don't use it
[20:10:26] <Jymmm> _abc_: I haven't even looked at ebay in a long long time.
[20:11:08] <Jymmm> Hell 70% of the "Saved Sellers" dont even have accounts anymore.
[20:11:13] <_abc_> Jymmm: fwiw Tungsten stock and pipe is on the verboten material list for export to unfriendly nations
[20:11:27] <_abc_> Jymmm: that will tell you all you need to know about the potential of the material
[20:11:37] <Jymmm> _abc_: which is?
[20:12:07] <_abc_> making gun barrels, tools to make same and armor piercing bullets, I guess.
[20:12:35] <Jymmm> ah, never thought about piersing stuff
[20:12:38] <Jymmm> piercing
[20:13:30] <_abc_> http://www.coppertungsten.net/Copper-tungsten-tube/ wow this is new to me
[20:13:54] <Jymmm> holy shi, melting poitn 3410 °C
[20:14:07] <_abc_> Yes, that is not your average junk steel
[20:14:19] <_abc_> Also copper is used to get rid of the heat I geuss
[20:14:20] <_abc_> *guess
[20:14:30] <Jymmm> _abc_: It have to be.
[20:14:36] <_abc_> Silver Tungsten alloy would work better but it will be murder on your wallet
[20:14:57] <syyl_> silver/tungstencarbide is hell to machine :D
[20:15:08] <_abc_> I can imagine
[20:15:20] <Jymmm> _abc_: I knew a SafeSmith once and he designed his own safes. he used a layer of 1" thick copper in the walls to prevent torching =)
[20:15:20] <syyl_> we use it in breaker switches as a contact material
[20:15:22] <mrsun> is it used to machine tungsten carbide ?
[20:15:29] <mrsun> is it harder then tungsten carbide? :)
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[20:15:41] <syyl_> no, it can be machine with normal tools
[20:15:50] <syyl_> but it is somewhat abrasive
[20:15:50] <_abc_> mrsun: it is WC carried in Ag, the Ag is used to get rid of machining heat...
[20:16:04] <mrsun> It is most widely used to machine tungsten carbide when fine surface finishes are required.
[20:16:26] <mrsun> sounds like it on that sentance if my english isnt totaly wack that its used to actualy machine tungsten carbide :P
[20:16:32] <_abc_> mrsun: yes the WC in the softer carrier metal acts like a diamond powder...
[20:16:46] <mrsun> aha
[20:17:16] <_abc_> But I assume the shape accuracy of the WC-Ag is much better than that of a diamond coated tool
[20:18:05] <Jymmm> WcAg or WCu ?
[20:20:04] <Jymmm> _abc_: http://www.americanelements.com/wnp.html
[20:20:41] <_abc_> Don't know.
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[20:37:14] <tjb1> hello all
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[20:38:46] <JT-Shop> is this tjb-plasma-823?
[20:39:03] <tjb1> plasma 823?
[20:40:46] <JT-Shop> nm
[20:41:02] <JT-Shop> I was looking for jd896
[20:41:16] <JT-Shop> too many short nics for me to remember
[20:41:44] <tjb1> Im tjb1 everywhere
[20:42:34] <JT-Shop> you almost had enough letters and numbers and you had a j so real close
[20:44:14] <tjb1> Haha close but not them
[20:45:13] <tjb1> Im workin to save up money to build my plasma table
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[20:53:48] <JT-Shop> ah then you might be interested in this then http://linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/component/kunena/?func=view&catid=40&id=20912
[20:54:09] <JT-Shop> so we have talked about plasma tables before?
[20:58:35] <mrsun> hmm, stupid encoders
[20:58:40] <mrsun> 1024 pulses/revolution ... wth
[20:59:10] <mrsun> 0.64 "pulses" per step of my stepper
[20:59:14] <mrsun> doesnt match at all
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[21:00:54] <JT-Shop> it ain't the encoders fault your trying to use it with a stepper :P
[21:01:16] <tjb1> Yes JT-Shop, I may have enough to order the 4 axis motor kit next week to play around with it and linuxcnc
[21:01:22] <mrsun> JT-Shop, but i want to :P
[21:01:28] <mrsun> i want feedback on the axises
[21:02:02] <JT-Shop> tjb1: have you seen my plasma table?
[21:02:10] <tjb1> I believe so
[21:02:27] <JT-Shop> ok, I can't remember
[21:02:48] <JT-Shop> I used the sheet align today and it is cool
[21:03:17] <DJ9DJ> gn8
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[21:04:13] <_abc_> Is anyone here using linuxcnc for foam cutting?
[21:04:20] -!- DJ9DJ has quit [Quit: bye]
[21:05:40] <_abc_> Does it support things like cutting hot wire suspended between 2 XY drives to cut 3D?
[21:05:53] <_abc_> I assume this is mostly a proper gcode generation question?
[21:06:24] <JT-Shop> I think Thiel does
[21:06:35] <JT-Shop> that is in master only
[21:08:01] <Jymmm> _abc_: what shapes are you wanting to cut?
[21:09:04] <_abc_> likely things which would normally be made out of slices glued together. Typically rough shape prototypes of design objects.
[21:09:31] <Jymmm> so a EPS variant of a reprap sorta kinda
[21:09:36] <_abc_> (but it could get much more involved than that, foam being usable as ... lost foam casting core)
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[21:09:44] <Jymmm> ah
[21:09:59] <_abc_> Jymmm: Architectural things and design things like vases and so on are frequently modelled like that
[21:10:04] <Jymmm> for 2.5D, shouldn't be an issue
[21:10:07] <_abc_> And the casting need not be metal
[21:10:31] <_abc_> Well I have some ideas about the wire tensioning device but I need to read more
[21:10:46] <Jymmm> _abc_: a spring? =)
[21:10:55] <_abc_> Not good enough
[21:11:11] <Jymmm> it is for me =)
[21:11:13] <_abc_> Weight works but is a pain on the side where it hangs
[21:11:32] <_abc_> need to compensate for it with a spring and all that
[21:11:55] <Jymmm> compensate for what?
[21:12:07] <_abc_> asymmetric loading on the servo
[21:12:18] <JT-Shop> well my business partner is getting the highest award a boy scout leader can... I'd be impressed if he did all that stuff while working 40hrs a week
[21:12:37] <_abc_> JT-Shop: The right people know him.
[21:13:36] <JT-Shop> no, he spends 80 hrs a week for the last 5 years working on boy scout projects and only a few minutes a week on our business
[21:14:11] <Jymmm> _abc_: Depending on the hot wire, a spring usually works just fine. there is a way to adjust for different grades of cutting wire though.
[21:14:36] <Jymmm> It all depnds on the setup
[21:15:34] <Jymmm> The harder part is the controller; and I dont just mean a variable power supply type setup.
[21:16:58] <_abc_> hmm?
[21:17:06] <Jymmm> I had a long discussion with the metallurgist at the mill where I bought my NiChrome from =)
[21:17:26] <_abc_> Well I assume the wire is constantan or nichrome and input power is held constant (and machine speed is held constant)
[21:17:50] <Jymmm> He was kind enough to write out some formulas for me to adhere to.
[21:17:59] <_abc_> The math to generate a reasonably close 'shave' of a 3d curvy object like a flowerpot boggles my mind
[21:18:04] <Jymmm> by constant, you mean ohm per foot?
[21:18:17] <_abc_> Jymmm: Watts per foot, more like it
[21:19:25] <Jymmm> It's not actually. the ratings you'll see are on ambient temps. As you go from ambient to 2200F the OPF changes.
[21:19:38] <_abc_> opf?
[21:19:48] <Jymmm> OPF == Ohm Per Foot
[21:19:50] <_abc_> and why 2200?!
[21:20:05] <_abc_> Nichrome has about 30ppm tempco?
[21:20:13] <Jymmm> that's the max SAFE working temp
[21:20:48] <Jymmm> on avg.
[21:21:03] <Loetmichel> is it?
[21:21:15] <Jymmm> 2100 - 2300 on avg depending on type
[21:21:32] <_abc_> Anyway foam cutting requires ~200C at most usually
[21:21:35] <Loetmichel> i thought NiCr would be lixuid at a tad over 1000°C?
[21:21:40] <Loetmichel> liquid
[21:21:47] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: F, not C
[21:22:07] <_abc_> More like 10ppm tempco
[21:22:15] <Jymmm> _abc_: it depends on the foam.
[21:22:20] <Loetmichel> jeah, have google converti it, 2200F is 1200°C
[21:22:38] <_abc_> Jymmm: the foam I have in mind requires at most 200C
[21:22:45] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: NiChrome metls around 2440F
[21:22:46] <_abc_> Jymmm: with a shove, 400C
[21:22:51] <_abc_> Absolute maximum
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[21:23:05] <_abc_> It smokes and chars at 400 so you don't want to go there
[21:23:16] <Loetmichel> _abc_: the wire in a foam cutter must be hotter than melting temperature
[21:23:28] <Loetmichel> because it should NOT touch the foam
[21:23:36] <_abc_> Loetmichel: sure, it melts at ~150-170
[21:23:59] <_abc_> Anyway expanded polystyrene is frequently used for this too
[21:24:01] <Loetmichel> ideally it makes a channel in the foam by radiating heat that is a LITTLE wider than the wire diameter
[21:24:11] <_abc_> yes
[21:24:50] <_abc_> I cut a lot of foam manually when I was a kid. Using a frame saw with nichrome wire held where the blade normally goes and a 12V adjustable train transformer.
[21:24:56] * Loetmichel uses Guitar strings ( top E) for the foam cutter
[21:25:04] <_abc_> :)
[21:25:22] <_abc_> I think we used that too, but we preferred wire robbed from space heater spare heater bars
[21:25:24] <Loetmichel> more rigid than nichrome and aviable even on saturdays in any music store
[21:25:26] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[21:25:38] <Jymmm> I have abotu 100K feet of NiChrome in various diameters =)
[21:25:52] <_abc_> Jymmm: why?!
[21:25:58] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: than i9 would use nichrome also
[21:26:14] <_abc_> Loetmichel: doesn't the guitar string go saggy and black?
[21:26:29] <Jymmm> i made/sold by the foot and foam cutters =)
[21:27:05] <_abc_> ah
[21:27:09] <_abc_> Manual ones?
[21:27:21] <Jymmm> yes
[21:27:40] <_abc_> Well the wire in the saw frame used to need a lot of retensioning.
[21:27:41] <Loetmichel> _abc_: it goes black after a while because its steel
[21:27:48] <Jymmm> Custom made specifically for various materials
[21:27:58] <Loetmichel> but that isnt a short term problem
[21:28:10] <_abc_> yes. And it gets clumpy blackened bits of polystyrene stuck on it. And they smoke and stink and snag the clean material
[21:28:26] <_abc_> I remember the smell
[21:28:27] <Jymmm> _abc_: stuck clunks == too low temp
[21:28:28] <Loetmichel> and saggy isnt a problem because my foam saw jas a spring loaded wire spool
[21:29:06] <_abc_> Okay
[21:29:23] * Jymmm cheated =)
[21:29:25] * _abc_ goes to zzz
[21:29:31] <Jymmm> G'Night =)
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[21:34:07] <_abc_> bah NiCr is 400ppm, my initial memory was closer...
[21:34:10] <_abc_> bye
[21:34:54] * Loetmichel too
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[22:00:12] <andypugh> copper/tungsten is used for spot-weld electrodes.
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[22:01:05] <jdhNC> we use copper/tungsten for resistance welding fuel rods.
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[22:05:23] <Jymmm> Those were tubes of it, 1/2" OD
[22:05:33] <Jymmm> among other shapes
[22:08:59] <Tom_itx> no luck on my plug cutout yet
[22:09:13] <Tom_itx> ile just measure it
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[22:10:16] <JT-Shop> ?
[22:13:58] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: I told you to google "IEC CAD" you lazy bastard... http://grabcad.com/library/ac-power-jack
[22:14:08] <Jymmm> =)
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[22:15:47] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: http://www.katalog.micros.com.pl/katalog_en.php?kat=093092,IEC_panel_connectors_%28AC_power%29,Connectors
[22:18:09] <Tom_itx> ty, that top one is what i have
[22:18:26] <Tom_itx> now, should i use one of those or a grommet thru wire?
[22:18:42] <Jymmm> no grommit,
[22:19:03] <Jymmm> use a socket, then you can remove the power cable as needed or when moving and not get i the way
[22:19:26] <Tom_itx> it could potentially get unplugged at the worst moment too
[22:19:28] <Jymmm> some IEC sockets even have filters in them too
[22:19:33] <Tom_itx> yeah
[22:19:36] <Jymmm> some have cbale locks
[22:19:48] <Jymmm> and fuse holders as well
[22:19:55] <Tom_itx> this is what the local guy had
[22:20:16] <Jymmm> you could ri apart an old PC power supply
[22:20:34] <Tom_itx> if i had a dead one i might
[22:20:55] <Jymmm> dumpster diving?
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[22:26:21] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx: what kind of plug?
[22:26:36] <Tom_itx> what Jymmm posted
[22:26:44] <Tom_itx> normal pc psu plug
[22:27:00] <JT-Shop> ah ok
[22:27:02] <Tom_itx> just the punchout drawing was what i wanted
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[22:48:08] * JT-Shop takes out the cutting torch... the angle grinder just ain't going to cut it
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[22:56:23] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop go easy on the plasma cutter.. it's just software
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[23:03:56] <Jymmm> nema23 200 oz-in 4 lead bipolar stepper 5.6A for $25, too much? way too much? about right?
[23:04:18] <Tom_itx> not bad
[23:04:55] <Jymmm> the higher amperage gives what?
[23:05:01] <Tom_itx> http://www.kelinginc.net/NEMA23Motor.html
[23:05:04] <Tom_itx> torque?
[23:05:40] <Jymmm> that link is double stack steppers
[23:05:52] <Jymmm> lots o torque =)
[23:05:58] <Tom_itx> is yours round?
[23:06:05] <Jymmm> no
[23:06:23] <Jymmm> Danaher Motion
[23:06:32] <Tom_itx> my original ones were only 135
[23:06:38] <Tom_itx> single stack
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[23:07:25] <Jymmm> heh 50 in stock =)
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[23:07:53] <Tom_itx> 185 for $27 on kelinginc
[23:08:07] <Tom_itx> 3A
[23:08:33] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: these have filters, fuse holders, etc http://www.excesssolutions.com/cgi-bin/category/11700
[23:09:20] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: do check the amperage if you buy any
[23:09:26] <Jymmm> some are only 1a
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[23:09:38] <Tom_itx> 10A
[23:09:40] <Tom_itx> the one i got
[23:09:48] <Jymmm> with filter?
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[23:10:20] <taiden> quick question all
[23:10:32] <taiden> how do I start ubuntu in terminal mode
[23:10:37] <taiden> i managed to bork xorg.conf
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[23:11:36] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: $2.50 http://www.excesssolutions.com/cgi-bin/item/ES3858
[23:12:02] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: But hurry, only 1500 in stock! LOL
[23:12:42] <Tom_itx> too late, this one is already drawn
[23:13:51] <Jymmm> =)
[23:14:14] <Jymmm> It took me FOREVER to find 20A socket and longer to find a 20A cord =)
[23:14:39] <Jymmm> I wanted a cord that was 12ft long
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[23:18:38] <Tom_itx> meh, use a 6' cord and get an extension :=)
[23:19:03] <Jymmm> most extension are not rated to 20A =)
[23:19:20] <Tom_itx> my rv one is
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[23:19:36] <Jymmm> yeah, at 30A, 10ga =)
[23:19:40] <Jymmm> $$$
[23:20:02] <Jymmm> Besides, all my high current ones are 50ft plus
[23:20:27] <Tom_itx> so, opinion welcome here
[23:20:42] <Tom_itx> should i mount my mpg in the door of my box or leave it in it's remote enclosure?
[23:20:59] <Jymmm> is it pretty as it is?
[23:21:18] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/cnc/pendant8.jpg
[23:21:24] <Jymmm> or pretty fugly?
[23:21:48] <Jymmm> Nah, man. you put a lot of work into that, leave as is
[23:21:55] <Tom_itx> not really
[23:21:57] <gene__> I agree
[23:22:04] <Tom_itx> the box is a surplus stamped box
[23:22:09] <Tom_itx> aluminum
[23:22:11] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: that's ok.
[23:22:25] <Jymmm> one less thing to deal with troubleshooting
[23:22:35] <Tom_itx> i'll make a front mount for it somewhere on the machine's enclosure
[23:22:35] <Jymmm> did you backfill the engraving?
[23:22:41] <Tom_itx> no
[23:22:47] <Tom_itx> that was a center drill
[23:22:53] <Tom_itx> i didn't even use the right cutter
[23:22:57] <Tom_itx> i used what i had
[23:23:02] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: get a fill stick, it'll contrast nicely
[23:23:12] <Tom_itx> it was intended as a test platform
[23:23:13] <Jymmm> maybe $6
[23:23:17] <Tom_itx> yeah
[23:23:28] <Jymmm> I'd keept it as is
[23:23:30] <Tom_itx> i should do it over with the right cutter
[23:23:41] <Tom_itx> fly cut it clean and re cut it
[23:23:52] <Jymmm> Nah, steal a crayon from a kid and fill it as is =)
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[23:24:22] <Tom_itx> if i had some different color uv paint i'd use it
[23:24:25] <Tom_itx> all i have is white
[23:24:50] <Jymmm> Black oil based enamel paint from home depot
[23:25:07] <Jymmm> rub in, wipe off, let dry for a couple of days
[23:25:11] <Tom_itx> testors enamel from walmart
[23:25:19] <Tom_itx> :)
[23:25:21] <Jymmm> oil based?
[23:25:26] <Tom_itx> i dunno
[23:25:29] <Tom_itx> it used to be
[23:25:41] <Tom_itx> model paint
[23:25:42] <Jymmm> probably soy oil based today! lol
[23:26:15] <Tom_itx> i got some of those here somewher
[23:26:15] <Jymmm> Buttermilk Ranch Dressing's first ingrediant aint buttermilk! bastards!
[23:26:16] <Tom_itx> e
[23:26:53] <Jymmm> hi gene__
[23:27:59] <Jymmm> Ok, I need 1/8 SS rods. I have an angle grinder, so what rack can I buy to cut up?
[23:28:17] <Tom_itx> triple d braw
[23:28:27] <Jymmm> wutz tat?
[23:28:34] <Tom_itx> underwire
[23:28:40] <Tom_itx> we discussed this already
[23:28:47] <Jymmm> Oh, you mean J Cup
[23:29:09] <Jymmm> No you just babbled and didnt provide a viable local solution =)
[23:29:17] <Tom_itx> 6 mo ago
[23:29:20] <Tom_itx> ~
[23:29:34] <Tom_itx> you asked the same thing
[23:29:37] <Jymmm> and what was the synopsys?
[23:29:52] <Tom_itx> i dunno
[23:29:59] <Tom_itx> it's all in the logs
[23:30:17] <Jymmm> I dont want logs, I want ss rods damnit!
[23:31:17] <Tom_itx> any boat rigging use it?
[23:31:33] <Jymmm> marine usually uses brass due to salt water
[23:32:06] <Jymmm> Food service uses lots of SS sheet and pipe
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[23:39:37] <Tom_itx> http://www.ebay.com/itm/OFFER-WIN-RITTAL-AE-1380-ELECTRICAL-ENCLOSURE-READY-BOX-AE-1380-/230799940306?_trksid=m7&_trkparms=algo%3DLVI%26itu%3DUCI%26otn%3D3%26po%3DLVI%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D9139450363006144248&_qi=RTM1084480
[23:39:41] <Tom_itx> that was why i asked
[23:40:08] <Tom_itx> that's way overpriced i think but i saw it
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[23:51:23] <r00t4rd3d> wtf
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