#linuxcnc | Logs for 2012-06-08

[00:00:06] <r00t4rd3d> not much osb in that house
[00:00:43] <pfred1> stuff is horrible to cut though isn't it?
[00:00:55] <andypugh> I placed an order with Crucual at 6pm yesterday for next-day delivery. They sent me an email at 9pm today saying they had packed it.
[00:01:20] <r00t4rd3d> ive gotten crucial orders the next day, free shipping
[00:01:37] <r00t4rd3d> if you order early enough
[00:01:54] <andypugh> I didn't really epect it today, but I was kind of thinking they might catch todays post...
[00:02:23] <pfred1> when I order stuff next day it takes 3 days when I order it ground it is here by the next day
[00:02:25] <r00t4rd3d> pfred1, not too bad. I cut that arch out in the "basement".
[00:02:32] <r00t4rd3d> with a jig saw
[00:02:46] <pfred1> the dust off OSB nakes me itchy
[00:02:50] <r00t4rd3d> http://i.imgur.com/8CdR6.jpg
[00:03:12] <r00t4rd3d> looks goofy now with no pillars installed yet.
[00:03:37] <pfred1> I have the same broom
[00:03:45] <r00t4rd3d> the green POS?
[00:03:47] <Jymmm> pfred1: Stop buying natural OSB made from poison ivy/oak =)
[00:03:47] <andypugh> Looks properly roomy.
[00:03:48] <pfred1> home depot special
[00:04:12] <r00t4rd3d> we go through 10 brooms a year
[00:04:12] <pfred1> I don't use it much it's OK I guess
[00:04:13] <Jymmm> r00t4rd3d: what the height?
[00:04:28] <pfred1> IU don't have much floor to sweep anymore
[00:04:51] <Jymmm> pfred1: bobcat + dumpster would resolve that =)
[00:05:10] <r00t4rd3d> Jymmm, im not sure of the exact number, 6 rows is like 9 feet
[00:05:22] <pfred1> my days of resolving those sorts of things are behind me now
[00:05:26] <Jymmm> r00t4rd3d: k, looks short =)
[00:06:30] <pfred1> we'd scrap floors with an H beam in a grabber bucket
[00:06:42] <pfred1> bobcats are for amateurs
[00:07:14] <Jymmm> pfred1: I was being kind to your walls =)
[00:07:30] <r00t4rd3d> 3 of us built that
[00:07:45] <pfred1> that job went south when we couldn't recover a wall sample to lab test
[00:07:56] <pfred1> so they all had to go
[00:08:00] <r00t4rd3d> was not fun at all. normally we do wood framing.
[00:09:15] <r00t4rd3d> those nudura blocks suck for cut up walls
[00:09:31] <r00t4rd3d> a square building they would be great
[00:09:50] <pfred1> want suck swing 18" custom split face block all day
[00:10:08] <r00t4rd3d> im an animal
[00:10:21] <r00t4rd3d> ill swing 2
[00:10:38] <pfred1> they're 80 pounds a piece
[00:10:44] <r00t4rd3d> lol
[00:10:50] <r00t4rd3d> okay 3
[00:10:52] <pfred1> well they are
[00:11:22] <pfred1> a few pallets of those will tame you
[00:11:55] <r00t4rd3d> you see that deck, 150 sheets of 3/4 advantec, like 100 pounds a piece
[00:12:00] <pfred1> I worked for a scaffolding company that used custom laminated planks
[00:12:17] <pfred1> they imported them by the boat load from Sweeden
[00:12:22] <r00t4rd3d> lol
[00:12:27] <pfred1> no joke
[00:12:30] <r00t4rd3d> bet that was cheap
[00:12:33] <pfred1> whole boat
[00:12:50] <pfred1> yeah well they were kinda big time like they did the statue of liberty
[00:12:55] <pfred1> the olympics
[00:13:07] <pfred1> things you may have yeard of
[00:13:11] <pfred1> heard of
[00:13:30] <r00t4rd3d> i cant stand the olympics
[00:13:34] <pfred1> one job the scaffolded burnt to the ground
[00:13:44] <pfred1> but the place didn't collapse
[00:13:49] <pfred1> because of the scaffolding
[00:13:55] <r00t4rd3d> laminated beams burn great
[00:14:10] <pfred1> I never did find out how that got resolved
[00:14:11] <r00t4rd3d> we use triple lams all the time and save the scraps for camp wood
[00:14:56] <pfred1> http://www.safway.com/
[00:16:26] <pfred1> http://i.imgur.com/jvC9r.jpg
[00:18:11] <jdhNC> anyone try knife sharpening with a cnc mill?
[00:18:52] <pfred1> jdhNC I'm partial to Arkansas stones myself
[00:19:04] <jdhNC> you are not sufficiently lazy
[00:19:06] <pfred1> medium and hard
[00:19:38] <pfred1> I have knives that cost over $100
[00:19:57] <pfred1> cryo Solingen
[00:20:14] <pfred1> stuff is amazing
[00:21:03] <pfred1> I want to check out that ceramic stuff though
[00:23:51] <pfred1> for now the best knives i have are black twins Henckels though
[00:26:57] <r00t4rd3d> ebay link?
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[01:59:13] <r00t4rd3d> or not
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[02:07:19] <pfred1> the missing link
[02:08:09] <r00t4rd3d> im going to work on my rig
[02:08:23] <pfred1> I'm going to sit here and get drunk
[02:09:07] <r00t4rd3d> thats not very productive or morning friendly.
[02:09:18] <pfred1> I got plenty done today
[02:09:52] <pfred1> only wine and sometimes hard liquor hangs me over
[02:10:08] <r00t4rd3d> drink everynight?
[02:12:22] <r00t4rd3d> must be to busy drinking to answer
[02:12:53] <pfred1> I was deeply engrossed reading a webpage sorry
[02:13:08] <r00t4rd3d> lol
[02:13:14] <pfred1> r00t4rd3d did you see my project?
[02:13:32] <r00t4rd3d> couldnt say
[02:13:37] <r00t4rd3d> perhaps
[02:13:37] <pfred1> http://www.instructables.com/id/Under-Shelf-Dual-Monitor-Support-Arms/
[02:14:36] <r00t4rd3d> thats one dirty keyboard
[02:14:48] <pfred1> yeah well it is out in my garage
[02:14:52] <r00t4rd3d> haha
[02:15:17] <pfred1> gets kinda dusty out there when I'm wire wheeling or sawing wood
[02:16:04] <r00t4rd3d> i havent gotten to dust removal yet
[02:16:16] <r00t4rd3d> dust/debris/etc
[02:16:19] <pfred1> pfft my lungs are dust extraction
[02:16:44] <pfred1> its worked for 48 years
[02:17:16] <pfred1> actually I've noticed with a high seiling dust doesn't circulate as much
[02:17:20] <pfred1> ceiling even
[02:17:28] <r00t4rd3d> i want to get a new shopvac but them cock suckers are too loud.
[02:17:36] <pfred1> my old shop had a much lower ceiling and the stuff would go everywhere
[02:17:36] <Jymmm> pfred1: But your only 17
[02:17:51] <pfred1> my only 17 what?
[02:18:06] <pfred1> my mill is older than 17
[02:18:16] <r00t4rd3d> lol
[02:18:20] <pfred1> I bought it new too
[02:18:23] <r00t4rd3d> re-read
[02:18:34] <pfred1> you're
[02:18:34] <Jymmm> pfred1: That 48yo sucker you see in the mirror is really 17. So your dust filtration FAIL!
[02:18:37] <r00t4rd3d> <pfred1> its worked for 48 years
[02:18:42] <r00t4rd3d> Jymmm> pfred1: But your only 17
[02:18:57] <pfred1> your is the possessive
[02:19:09] <pfred1> my what?
[02:19:24] <r00t4rd3d> i use the opposite all the time just to piss people off
[02:19:37] <Jymmm> r00t4rd3d: I think he has achieved drunkness!
[02:19:49] <pfred1> I got a good buzz going
[02:19:49] <r00t4rd3d> its worked for 48 years
[02:20:24] <pfred1> the stain fumes help
[02:20:44] <r00t4rd3d> smoke a joint
[02:21:07] <Jymmm> stain fumes from urinating on yourself?
[02:21:20] <pfred1> nah my arms aren't fully cured yet
[02:21:37] <pfred1> they're kinda wafting a bit
[02:21:48] <Jymmm> I dont know what that means, but ok!
[02:21:51] <Jymmm> =)
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[02:22:07] <pfred1> Jymmm http://www.instructables.com/file/FSKI8H9H2WET4QH/?size=ORIGINAL
[02:22:15] <pfred1> fresh stain
[02:22:52] <Jymmm> pfred1: Ah. single bolt holding it to the shelf?
[02:23:07] <pfred1> yeah a 1/2x13 carrige bolt
[02:23:28] <Jymmm> pfred1: But no large 2-3" diameter washer to offset the weight?
[02:23:45] <pfred1> no just the right size washer for that bolt
[02:23:56] <pfred1> it'd take about a ton of wweight
[02:24:13] <pfred1> the shelf bracket will give out long before it does
[02:24:15] <Jymmm> Sure, but will the wood is qhat I was questioning
[02:24:20] <Jymmm> what
[02:24:29] <pfred1> oh the 3/4 plywood?
[02:24:38] <Jymmm> or the oak
[02:24:46] <pfred1> yeah no
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[02:25:19] <pfred1> it's pretty sturdy
[02:25:47] <Jymmm> cool
[02:26:57] <pfred1> I just extended them
[02:27:03] <pfred1> now you're closer
[02:27:27] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Computer-Industrial-Rack-Mountable-Waterproof-Keyboard-/370619414705?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item564aa378b1
[02:28:01] <pfred1> I have one of those roll up keyboards
[02:28:12] <pfred1> but it is horrible to type on
[02:28:19] <r00t4rd3d> shitty beyond shit
[02:28:32] <r00t4rd3d> you can get nice ones though
[02:28:37] <ReadError> mechanical or bust
[02:28:45] <pfred1> ah I got it for a buck at a yard sale
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[02:28:51] <ReadError> sounds like a tommy gun at work when i start peckin hard ;)
[02:29:03] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Silicone-Industrial-Waterproof-USB-Mini-Keyboard-Compatible-Windows-7-KB-88-/400298262005?pt=PCA_Mice_Trackballs&hash=item5d33a2bdf5
[02:29:09] <r00t4rd3d> industrial lol
[02:29:30] <jdhNC> I have a $5 rubber one from monoprice.com
[02:29:44] <pfred1> yeah mine was probably about $5 new
[02:29:49] <r00t4rd3d> i bet its a dream to type on also
[02:30:11] <pfred1> just throw a regular keyboard in a plastic bag
[02:30:21] <jdhNC> it's a dream to spill cutting fluid on
[02:30:30] <pfred1> I did that with a cordless drill working on my pool
[02:30:36] <jdhNC> sucks for everything else
[02:30:43] <pfred1> then I broke out my pneumatic tools
[02:30:54] <pfred1> used it underwater
[02:31:01] <pfred1> was cool
[02:32:11] <pfred1> man that skimmer was a pain in the ass
[02:32:24] <pfred1> I had to make studs for it to get it to seat
[02:32:48] <ReadError> i got a 20$ wireless MS kb/mouse combo at microcenter on sale
[02:33:01] <ReadError> for the basement
[02:33:06] <pfred1> I have cordless upstairs but the range sucks
[02:33:19] <pfred1> I kinda wanted to use it a bit like a remote
[02:33:25] <ReadError> ya well im sure it exceeds the range of your eyes ;)
[02:33:30] <Jymmm> ReadError: Your $129 to my $6 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Clear-Silicone-Cover-Skin-for-Apple-imac-G6-Wired-Keyboard-US-Version-Desktop-PC-/260880978223?pt=US_Keyboard_Protectors&hash=item3cbdb7d12f
[02:33:30] <pfred1> it doesn't remote much past 3 feet
[02:34:09] <ReadError> lol you got a bunk kb
[02:34:16] <ReadError> Jymmm, its all about finger pleasure
[02:34:17] <pfred1> logitech
[02:34:21] <ReadError> i enjoy the finer things in life
[02:34:26] <ReadError> nice keyboards and good beer
[02:34:46] <Jymmm> ReadError: EXCELLENT kayboard, replaces my IBM Keyboard
[02:35:07] <pfred1> like I said throw it in a plastic bag
[02:35:30] <Jymmm> The silicon cover is great
[02:35:33] <ReadError> i hate mac keyboards
[02:35:41] <pfred1> I hate macs
[02:35:41] <ReadError> not tactile at all
[02:35:50] <Jymmm> ReadError: Have you tried it?
[02:35:57] <ReadError> i have an apple kb
[02:36:04] <ReadError> i only use it to fix synergy
[02:36:07] <ReadError> and thats all ;)
[02:36:09] <pfred1> I have a couple pear trees
[02:36:28] <pfred1> least I did the last time Iwas in my back yard
[02:36:44] <Jymmm> Was an easy transition from my IBM clicky to the Apple wired
[02:36:45] <ReadError> i run hackintosh pfred1
[02:36:47] <ReadError> works great ;)
[02:36:48] <r00t4rd3d> check out this panic button
[02:36:48] <pfred1> I gotta go check on them again someday
[02:36:48] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-sealed-PANIC-BUTTON-for-computer-keyboard-gag-gift-novelty-moc-new-/380445422964?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5894507574
[02:37:25] <pfred1> I want to get an easy button for my CNC
[02:37:57] <ReadError> my mechanical keyboards support aftermarket keys ;)
[02:38:44] <pfred1> I think an easy estop would be cool
[02:38:58] <Jymmm> short out the circuit breaker
[02:39:45] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Batteries-Included-STAPLES-TALKING-EASY-BUTTON-International-Ship-/140758749606?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20c5e011a6
[02:40:44] <r00t4rd3d> im sure you could rewire that into a estop
[02:40:52] <pfred1> I'm sure I'll pick one up in my travels
[02:41:07] <Jymmm> In Spanish http://www.ebay.com/itm/STAPLES-en-espanol-boton-facil-SPANISH-EASY-BUTTON-Asi-de-facil-w-Batteries-/140693570299?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20c1fd82fb
[02:41:15] <pfred1> I find everything else
[02:41:35] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Swearing-BS-Button-much-funnier-than-that-easy-button-/310326039135?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4840df925f
[02:42:38] <r00t4rd3d> ebay needs better sharable links
[02:43:35] <r00t4rd3d> by better i mean shorter
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[02:44:55] <Jymmm> r00t4rd3d: http://search.ebay.com/310326039135
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[02:45:10] <roycroft> hey folks
[02:45:21] <pfred1> hay horses
[02:45:22] <roycroft> so i have multiple bit of better news today
[02:45:38] <roycroft> i got another touch screen display for $12, and it works great
[02:45:46] <pfred1> sweet
[02:45:54] <roycroft> i got the touch screen calibration utility compiled finally, and it works great
[02:45:55] <pfred1> I been paying $5 for non touch screens
[02:46:12] <roycroft> and i disabled hyperthreading on the cnc computer, and my jitter is way down now
[02:46:25] <roycroft> i still don't understand the difference between base jitter and servo jitter, though
[02:46:32] <pfred1> no one likes a hyper computer
[02:47:29] <Connor> roycroft: How big touchscreen ?
[02:47:35] <roycroft> today's is 15"
[02:47:41] <roycroft> i have a 17" one as well
[02:47:48] <Connor> for $12.00 ??
[02:47:52] <roycroft> yes!
[02:47:56] <roycroft> it's a dell
[02:48:01] <roycroft> with an elo touch screen
[02:48:06] <roycroft> usb interface
[02:48:14] <Connor> I want one for my 22 inch.
[02:48:19] <roycroft> it was on sale for half off at the goodwill
[02:48:25] <roycroft> 15" is plenty big for linuxcnc
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[02:48:41] <Connor> Oh, you got a whole monitor.
[02:48:49] <Connor> I'm using a 22" already.
[02:48:52] <roycroft> even the fattest of fingers can operate a 15" touchscreen monitor
[02:48:56] <roycroft> yes, i got the whole thing
[02:48:58] <roycroft> plug and play
[02:49:08] <jdhNC> I have a 19" on the mill. I would prefer 22
[02:49:12] <roycroft> why?
[02:49:22] <roycroft> 15" looks huge running the touchy interface
[02:49:31] <jdhNC> I like to see more than just the UI
[02:49:34] <roycroft> at some point i'll want to customise that interface, though
[02:50:07] <Connor> geez. 112.00 for a overlay kit..
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[02:51:20] <roycroft> i plan on having multiple cnc machines
[02:51:42] <roycroft> so collecting touch screen displays when they're a good deal is a good thing to do
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[02:54:15] <pfred1> to a point
[02:54:38] <pfred1> at some point I stop buying stuff
[02:54:58] <pfred1> like don't ask me how many Weller ray gun soldering guns I own
[02:55:19] <pfred1> I mean I have them MIB
[02:55:22] <Connor> pfred1: How many do you own ?
[02:55:38] <pfred1> pfft a half a dozen a dozen I've really no idea at this point
[02:56:06] <pfred1> now even MIB for $3 I won't buy anymore
[02:56:07] <jdhNC> what do you do with them?
[02:56:17] <pfred1> solder heavy stuff
[02:56:24] <pfred1> like chassis
[02:56:41] <pfred1> they're no good for micro electronics but they have their place
[02:57:24] <pfred1> they're the soldering equipment a lot of people buy that don't have the first clue how to solder
[02:57:37] <pfred1> then they decide they can't solder and get rid of them
[02:57:44] <jdhNC> I almost bought one once.
[02:57:57] <pfred1> the cool thing about them is they heat up almost instantly
[02:58:04] <pfred1> less then 3 seconds
[02:58:32] <pfred1> so for doing heavy wiring and stuff they're pretty good
[02:59:42] <pfred1> hammers is another thing I have to slow down with
[02:59:51] <pfred1> and pliers
[03:00:40] <pfred1> I was at an estate sale and I picked up this sweet pair of Utica tools linesmans for 50 cents
[03:00:47] <pfred1> I mean how could i pass?
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[03:02:09] <pfred1> never mind I have 10 other pairs of linesmans pliers
[03:04:51] <roycroft> i have an old soldering gun
[03:04:56] <roycroft> it is great!
[03:05:02] <roycroft> i use it to demagnetise tools
[03:05:07] <pfred1> keep the tip clean and tinned
[03:05:16] <pfred1> I have a degausser
[03:05:18] <roycroft> i've never soldered with it
[03:05:30] <pfred1> it is pretty handy
[03:05:42] <pfred1> nothing worse than a magnetized drill bit
[03:06:07] <roycroft> my soldering gun was $2 at a garage sale
[03:06:14] <roycroft> hard to find a proper degausser for that price
[03:06:17] <pfred1> yup that is the going rate
[03:06:33] <pfred1> oh I forget what I paid for my degausser
[03:06:44] <roycroft> probably more than $2
[03:06:49] <pfred1> I think you could chop the secondary off a transformer and have a gegausser
[03:06:56] <pfred1> degausser even
[03:07:36] <pfred1> mine is a plate type not a ring
[03:07:53] <pfred1> so you pass a part over it in an X pattern
[03:07:56] <roycroft> the kind that was made for bulk erasing magnetic tapes
[03:08:16] <pfred1> oh this thing would bulk erase tapes I bet
[03:08:28] <pfred1> it weighs about 30 pounds
[03:08:31] <tronwizard> pfred: leave the secondary on, and add a load, better magnetic field
[03:08:50] <roycroft> it would erase them from a furlong away!
[03:08:56] <pfred1> thing is you want a crappy pagnetic field
[03:09:01] <pfred1> magnetic field even
[03:11:49] <pfred1> I'll have to take mine apart someday and see what makes it tick or hum
[03:15:37] <uw> hi stepper motor question. Ive ran one of the example files fine, but when i ran it again one of the axis missed steps (quite a bit). I dont know why this is happening. Has anybody else seen this?
[03:15:55] <pfred1> heh
[03:16:39] <jdhNC> check step timings, acceleration, max velocity
[03:16:46] <pfred1> what drive and what speed are you running?
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[03:21:01] <uw> running a opti driver (3 steppers) and speed is about .7in/s
[03:21:13] <uw> machine is a sherline mini mill
[03:21:33] <uw> the opti-driver says it supports up to 27khz
[03:21:43] <pfred1> not familiar with that driver but seems reasonable
[03:22:16] <pfred1> so 27 KHz step input?
[03:23:00] <uw> also, i cannot go lower than 1.0in^2/s for acceleration for some reaoson. if i lower it, as soon as i click away, it pops back to 1.0
[03:23:06] <pfred1> what is the lead pitch on a sherline?
[03:23:14] <pfred1> I'd imagine it is pretty tight
[03:23:33] <uw> 20 threads / inch
[03:23:39] <pfred1> hmm yes
[03:24:07] <uw> yes max step rate is less than the 27Khz spec of the driver
[03:24:29] <uw> is 20tpi pretty tight?
[03:24:35] <uw> sorry im pretty new to these systems
[03:24:57] <pfred1> that is the pitch of an imperial micrometer
[03:25:08] <pfred1> or are they 40?
[03:25:13] <cradek> for a small light machine you can probably accel at 10-25 ips2. your max speed will be very limited though.
[03:26:02] <uw> i think all sherline inch machines are 20TPI unless they've been changed
[03:26:05] <cradek> it's not surprising that stepconf has a minimum of 1 ips2 because that's really much slower than anybody ought to need
[03:26:22] <pfred1> is my math right .7 IPS @ 20 TPI = 840 RPM
[03:27:07] <cradek> yeah .3-.5 ips might be your max
[03:27:22] <cradek> I think they even use unipolar drivers
[03:27:37] <uw> pfred1, i believe that sounds correct.
[03:27:43] <pfred1> it is doable but you'd have to be up to snuff
[03:28:20] <uw> cradek, ok thats soo slow, but that might be just waht im dealing with
[03:28:25] <pfred1> like what volts are you running your driver at?
[03:28:28] <uw> i blieve my steppers are unipolar
[03:28:31] <uw> they are from 1994
[03:28:45] <uw> the driver runs at 36v
[03:29:00] <pfred1> to do 840 I'd think you'd have to yeah I was going to say at least 36
[03:29:26] <pfred1> are you microstepping?
[03:29:49] <pfred1> like what mode do you have your driver in?
[03:30:07] <pfred1> 1/2 1/4 1/8th?
[03:30:26] <uw> umm, honestly, i dont know. if i were to guess, i dont believe the opti-driver supports microstepping, only differnt currrent modes. (25% 50% 100%)
[03:30:35] <pfred1> hmm it has to
[03:31:10] <uw> ok to calibrate it...using stepper mill configureation tool...
[03:31:13] <pfred1> personally I've never gotten full step to ever run too well for me at speeds
[03:31:18] <uw> i have driver microstepping to 2.0
[03:31:27] <uw> this yields accurate table travel
[03:31:28] <pfred1> OK so half stepping
[03:31:42] <pfred1> half isn't bad
[03:31:54] <pfred1> but 1/4 may be better
[03:32:11] <pfred1> it is certainly worth trying out if it is available to you
[03:32:51] <pfred1> I know I would
[03:33:00] <uw> the opti driver is pretty old. i cant find any information on it.
[03:33:13] <uw> what would the benfits of 1/4 stepping be?
[03:33:15] <pfred1> is there a driver IC?
[03:33:24] <pfred1> it might run smoother less resonance
[03:33:49] <pfred1> resonance is often what knocks stepeprs out
[03:35:23] <pfred1> I'm waiting for the new toshiba IC to really enter the pipeline
[03:35:24] <uw> the driver ICs are covered with heat sincs
[03:35:36] <uw> i have a picture of the device that im uploading right now
[03:35:56] <uw> just so everyone can see this crazy thing which aparently doesnt exist on the internet
[03:36:18] <pfred1> right now thse are unobtanium http://simewang007.en.ec21.com/Toshiba_Thb6064ah_Engraver_Machine_Step--5804224_5887880.html
[03:36:30] <pfred1> but they're hotrods!
[03:37:34] <uw> oh ive heard of these
[03:37:47] <pfred1> uw I made my own drivers based on the earlier IC http://www.instructables.com/id/TB6560-Microstepping-Bipolar-Chopper-Stepper-Motor/
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[03:38:23] <uw> theres a new project that someone made with these. wanted $50 for package that supported 3 motors. was on kickstarter i believe
[03:38:44] <pfred1> $50 3 axis is pretty good if it performs
[03:39:05] <uw> it seemed like a pretty good deal. My motors are pretty old though so i couldnt use it
[03:39:17] <pfred1> mine was $10 an axis but performance is a bit lackluster
[03:39:17] <uw> i just am using this free mill to learn the ins and outs
[03:39:34] <uw> have you ever heard of linstepper
[03:39:39] <pfred1> yes
[03:39:50] <pfred1> I've chatted with roman
[03:40:14] <uw> i was thinking about that one too, however the IC again isnt for unipolar motors
[03:40:27] <uw> professional schematic
[03:40:31] <pfred1> their driver isn't for past 1.5 amps
[03:40:35] <uw> just curious, what did you use to create it?
[03:40:51] <pfred1> my schematic?
[03:40:54] <pfred1> Eagle
[03:41:23] <pfred1> maybe someday DJ will teach me how to use PCB :)
[03:41:33] <djdelorie> it's easy!
[03:41:37] <pfred1> heh
[03:41:50] <djdelorie> as long as you want to do things pcb's way :-)
[03:41:50] <pfred1> easy for you
[03:42:03] <djdelorie> I've had practice
[03:42:10] <pfred1> that is what it takes
[03:42:16] <djdelorie> http://www.delorie.com/pcb/docs/gs/
[03:42:20] <uw> i use cadence at work and that was a royal pain to learn
[03:42:24] <pfred1> thing is I've had too much practice using eagle
[03:42:25] <uw> and im still not good at it
[03:42:52] <pfred1> I still suck making library parts though
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[03:43:25] <uw> i hear you
[03:43:37] <pfred1> that to me is the true trst if PCB design soft is any good how good is the lib creation module
[03:43:39] <djdelorie> I have scripts to make them for me
[03:43:41] <uw> i just try to find similar parts online then modifiy them
[03:43:45] <djdelorie> google "djboxsym"
[03:44:03] <djdelorie> and "dilpads"
[03:44:31] <pfred1> I had to make the lib for my TB6560 with its stupid zip footprint
[03:44:56] <pfred1> which I had to modify because it was still too tight to route easily was easier to bend pins
[03:45:45] <pfred1> initially i made it so the part dropped right in
[03:45:54] <pfred1> I was very proud of that
[03:46:08] <pfred1> it didn't work well in practice though
[03:46:45] <pfred1> I'm going to firebomb whoever wrote nepomuk
[03:47:12] <pfred1> they should have named it runamok
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[03:48:39] <pfred1> uw like a lot of things in life with CNC speed costs
[03:49:10] <uw> yea thats exactly what i wasnt hoping lol
[03:49:19] <pfred1> nope very true here
[03:49:35] <pfred1> and to go a little faster it can cost a lot more too
[03:49:46] <uw> also your inscrutable is pretty cool. nice job man. I wish i could get my shit together and do something for the comunity
[03:50:00] <uw> you were saying you werent happy with the performance
[03:50:04] <pfred1> ah you can buy chinese boards for cheaper
[03:50:05] <uw> what is lacking or whatever?
[03:50:17] <pfred1> it tops out at about 24 volts
[03:50:27] <pfred1> so you can only get so much watts tehre
[03:51:20] <pfred1> I need a current probe for my scope so I can really see what is going on
[03:51:49] <uw> oh i see
[03:52:14] <uw> the chip can handle more than that right?>
[03:52:22] <pfred1> yeah i may be able to get a litte more out of it but I don't know
[03:52:29] <pfred1> well that is debatable
[03:52:48] <pfred1> toshiba claims it can do more but when people push it that far it has a habit of blowing up
[03:53:19] <pfred1> I blew one up but I shorted it out
[03:53:38] <uw> hmm even majorly heat sinked?
[03:53:56] <pfred1> back emf seems to kill them
[03:54:25] <pfred1> your input volts may not be your max system volts at all times
[03:54:54] <pfred1> due to the nature of stepper motors
[03:55:23] <pfred1> them being big coils in close proximity to rotating magnetic fields etc.
[03:55:23] <uw> yea and i guess they arent protected or whatever
[03:55:47] <pfred1> they are but they aren't protected enough
[03:56:08] <pfred1> the chinese boards have protection diodes on them the IC is supposed to have them built in as well
[03:56:43] <pfred1> in any event I'm holding out a lot of hope for the improved IC
[03:57:02] <pfred1> it looks like it'll be close to a drop in for my board from what I've seen of it
[03:57:07] <uw> does the datasheet recommend external protection diodes or other spike protection?
[03:57:15] <pfred1> not really
[03:58:31] <uw>
[03:58:43] <uw> btw this is the board im using
[03:58:52] <uw> vaporware i swear
[03:59:38] <pfred1> unipolar drive?
[04:00:03] <uw> yes i believe the motors are unipolar
[04:00:13] <pfred1> how many wires?
[04:00:24] <pfred1> come out of one motor
[04:01:21] <uw> 4 wires
[04:01:26] <pfred1> bipolar
[04:01:31] <uw> 2A 6V 5ohm they say
[04:02:02] <pfred1> unipolar motors have 6 wires universal motors have 8 4 wire is bipolar
[04:02:38] <uw> oh ok. i remember reading all about them and how much one sucks compared to the other, but cant remember anything else
[04:02:46] <pfred1> ah
[04:02:47] <uw> or even which one was better
[04:02:48] <uw> lol
[04:03:01] <pfred1> they can all be good or suck
[04:03:47] <pfred1> 2 amp motors should be good for your sherline
[04:04:12] <pfred1> this driver does look a little cheesy though I can't quite place the driver ICs
[04:04:36] <pfred1> probably some old allegro stuff
[04:04:44] <uw> http://uwonfire/img/P1030190.JPG
[04:04:59] <uw> theres another picture. they they put stickers over the amtel jobs
[04:05:20] <uw> and those heatsincs (bent pieces of metal) are soldered in place
[04:05:20] <pfred1> not found
[04:05:42] <uw>
[04:05:45] <pfred1> I had a job where we sanded the numbers off ICs
[04:06:06] <uw> LOL i totally belive it
[04:06:20] <pfred1> oh we did
[04:06:35] <pfred1> sat there and sanded numbers off day in day out
[04:07:18] <pfred1> they were common 4000 series CMOS ICs too
[04:07:21] <uw> wow knowledge is power hate to say it. keeping those devices a secret probably kept everyone getting paid though right?
[04:07:52] <pfred1> well I asked Ed about it and he was like I don't want the chip swappers messing with my boards
[04:08:59] <uw> makes sense
[04:09:01] <pfred1> you know pwoplw who don't have a whole lot of knowledge but they figure if the ycan swap the ICs maybe they'll get something working
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[04:09:18] <pfred1> he'd rather they just returned them
[04:09:35] <uw> true, especially when they are programmable
[04:09:38] <pfred1> and he was probably right
[04:09:45] <uw> heres a related story...
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[04:09:54] <pfred1> the hardest thing to troubleshoot is the human factor
[04:10:25] <uw> we opened up a vendor's box once trying to fix a problem. then we kept blaming them for using a certain IC that was misbehaving
[04:10:42] <uw> turns out it was something else and we wasted a bunch of the vendor's time lol
[04:11:05] <pfred1> assumptions can chew up a lot of resources
[04:11:32] <pfred1> I always try to keep an open mind
[04:12:36] <pfred1> I wonder if your drivers aren't 297/298 pairs?
[04:12:58] <pfred1> paired packages and the right vintage too
[04:13:15] <pfred1> look that up and compare the pin counts
[04:13:35] <pfred1> if they are then you're not going to get a whole lot of performance out of them
[04:13:39] <uw> indeed. if there ever was such an example for "wild goose chase"... I'm my defense (blame pushing) I was being pressured by the uppers to do such a thing.
[04:13:46] <uw> 297/298 pair?
[04:13:56] <pfred1> yes they are classic stepper drives
[04:14:15] <pfred1> just google 297 298 a million pages should return
[04:14:42] <pfred1> http://anivo.com/reed/L297_L298/L297_L298.htm
[04:15:02] <pfred1> I bet that is what you have
[04:15:18] <pfred1> old skule
[04:15:22] <uw> (looking)
[04:16:11] <pfred1> I never actually messed with them have read about them some though
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[04:16:38] <pfred1> one id the sequencer the other is the driver IC
[04:17:04] <pfred1> though why they heat sinked the sequencer is anyone's guess
[04:17:55] <uw> hmm, it looks like the middle of the IC is pinless for the heatsink
[04:18:07] <uw> i dont see a L297 298 that has that package
[04:18:10] <uw> but maybe they do?
[04:18:20] <pfred1> yeah that threw me too
[04:18:31] <pfred1> the one IC looks like it has heat fangs
[04:19:17] <pfred1> but 297 sequencers only do full and half stepping if memory serves me
[04:22:06] <pfred1> I think they use bipolar transistor technology
[04:22:22] <uw> yea just checked again, they are soldered down
[04:22:51] <pfred1> well with your driver I think you may have to scale back your speed expectations some
[04:23:23] <uw> sadly...might be the thing i need to do.
[04:23:43] <pfred1> hey its a sherline how much travel do you have anyways?
[04:24:01] <pfred1> not like you're rapiding across a 4x8 sheet you know?
[04:24:07] <uw> 8"x 3" y
[04:24:49] <pfred1> my drives with a 10 TPI thread I'm lucky to get 1.3 IPM
[04:24:51] <uw> true, i just want to learn the program with this. i have anotehr bigger mill i am looking to convert to cnc that i have servos for
[04:24:59] <pfred1> IPS I mean
[04:25:17] <uw> what kind of machine do you have?
[04:25:17] <pfred1> yeah servos higher performance
[04:25:41] <pfred1> none yet just a Z axis I've been busy with other projects I mean to get back to it eventually
[04:26:15] <pfred1> it is a little further along than this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHPKaHLzXes
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[04:26:25] <uw> i hear you with the projects LOL
[04:27:07] <uw> its funny, all i want to do is make stuff to play with. turns out i spend all my time playing with the tool to make the stuff i actually want to play with
[04:27:29] <pfred1> I spend a lot of time improving my workshop
[04:27:46] <pfred1> I just finished this http://www.instructables.com/id/Under-Shelf-Dual-Monitor-Support-Arms/
[04:27:59] <pfred1> that took me a couple of days to do
[04:28:13] <uw> nice in that video are you using the driver you made?
[04:28:19] <pfred1> yes
[04:28:27] <uw> looks pretty good
[04:28:31] <pfred1> thanks
[04:28:40] <pfred1> my own PSU and break out board too
[04:29:00] <pfred1> I made everything but the PC
[04:29:12] <pfred1> well and the software
[04:29:48] <pfred1> I did build the software though
[04:30:10] <pfred1> I'm none too keen on Ubuntu
[04:30:11] <uw> nice. yea i went with hanging monitors too soo much better
[04:30:36] <pfred1> it is more flexible
[04:30:55] <pfred1> I had a huge CRT in this spot
[04:31:13] <pfred1> I'm hoping to reclaim some of the space
[04:31:42] <uw> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ajquick/cnc-building-blocks?ref=live
[04:32:06] <uw> this is that stepper driver iwas talking about
[04:32:12] <pfred1> pretty boring design
[04:32:24] <uw> accept its not tohshiba
[04:32:33] <uw> SLA7078
[04:32:45] <uw> oh yea the project itself sucks
[04:32:56] <pfred1> I've made a driver with an SLA7026
[04:32:57] <uw> but i see a bunch of stuff using that SLA7078
[04:33:13] <uw> for some reason i thought it was toshiba for some reason
[04:33:13] <pfred1> which is basically the same without a built in sequencer
[04:33:20] <pfred1> allegro
[04:33:44] <uw> they seem like they have good specs
[04:34:00] <pfred1> they're unipolar
[04:34:53] <uw> the driver i was going to make was based off that, but then i realized the whole unipolar/bipolar problem and ended up where i am now, using what came with it
[04:34:59] <uw> which is nice that it works anyway
[04:35:08] <pfred1> this is one of my SLA boards http://img697.imageshack.us/img697/7711/pict0789w.jpg
[04:35:30] <pfred1> I like how they do their current limiting
[04:35:42] <pfred1> just adjust that pot
[04:36:21] <pfred1> my schematic http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/5841/tb6560ahqa.png
[04:36:29] <pfred1> ack no not that
[04:37:00] <Jymmm> Wow, that's bad
[04:37:21] <uw> lol
[04:37:25] <pfred1> yeah where's your better one?
[04:38:10] <Jymmm> anone that doesnt use bronze bushings, or crappy mold injection design and materials
[04:39:21] <uw> hey if it works, i guess just use it
[04:39:32] <pfred1> this is the schematic for my SLA7026 http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/646/hsoptos.png
[04:39:34] <Jymmm> I heard him thunk the plastic; brittle as shit
[04:39:56] <Jymmm> should be glass impregnated glass at the very least
[04:40:43] <uw> howd that perform?
[04:40:49] <Jymmm> err glass impregnante nylon
[04:41:10] <pfred1> well I'm only running it at the same volts as my TB but not bad
[04:41:13] <Jymmm> It make the parts VERY STIFF and solid.
[04:41:41] <Jymmm> little to no thermal expansion
[04:41:41] <pfred1> it can take a lot higher voltage but I don't have a PSU for it
[04:42:07] <pfred1> well the on board regulator would limit it to 35V
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[04:42:25] <pfred1> but the driver IC itself is good to 40V?
[04:44:08] <pfred1> the newer ICs are very easy to work with because they have built in sequencers
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[06:44:36] <ScribbleJ> So OK, when you have to change tools manually, how do ya'll make sure it's positioned right?
[06:52:28] <Jymmm> 0,0,0,0
[06:53:10] <Jymmm> Move XY to 0,0
[06:53:22] <Jymmm> Have Z at 2
[06:53:25] <Jymmm> Change tool
[06:53:34] <Jymmm> Adjust tool to 2
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[06:53:54] <ScribbleJ> OK
[06:53:54] <Jymmm> Hit start
[06:54:00] <Jymmm> Grab Beer
[06:54:09] <ScribbleJ> OK
[06:54:18] <ScribbleJ> I think I was thinking it was more complicated than it is.
[06:54:30] <ScribbleJ> I don't have to change the X/Y coords after toolchange, just Z
[06:55:14] <Jymmm> If you do, jsut adjust back to 0,0
[06:55:39] <Jymmm> Thats the purpose of mving xy to 0,0 in case somethign fucks up
[06:56:01] <Jymmm> maybe you hit the wrong button, etc
[06:56:44] <Jymmm> just have a constant reference point, even if it's just mentally
[06:57:06] <Jymmm> just be sore to make it consistant and dont be lazy about it
[06:57:13] <Jymmm> s/sore/sure/
[07:00:53] <ScribbleJ> hrm
[07:00:57] <ScribbleJ> Now that I think about it
[07:01:33] <ScribbleJ> If i use tool1 for clearing and tool 2 for finishing, it doesn't even have to be perfectly aligned, just aligned so it's within the limits of the clearing tolerance.
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[07:02:45] <Jymmm> No, because your gcode is going to compensate for a finishing pass, ot could potentially
[07:02:48] <Jymmm> or
[07:03:08] <archivist> depends how you change tool and if you set tool offsets in the tool table
[07:03:34] <Jymmm> plus any tool wear.
[07:08:29] <ScribbleJ> I clearly have a lot to learn.
[07:08:44] <Jymmm> me too
[07:09:07] <Jymmm> (really)
[07:09:54] <Jymmm> Heh, I need an AB Dick 360 to take apart =)
[07:10:37] <Jymmm> That is such a great printer
[07:11:53] <Jymmm> you could easily print currency with it =)
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[07:27:26] <Loetmichel> mornin'
[07:29:11] <Loetmichel> *yaaaaawm* ... to watch DS9 'til 4:00 when i have to be at work at 08:00 wasnt the brightest idea... ;-)
[07:31:17] <Loetmichel> <- rubs the sleep out of his eyes and asks the front desk secretary for a triple espresso ;-)
[07:37:13] <Loetmichel> ... who happens to be a mechanical engineer (dipl.Ing) and doubles as our phone operator and secretary of the boss also ;-)
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[08:02:20] <mrsun> hmm, oil for the spindle of the lathe ?
[08:02:34] <Jymmm> bacon grease
[08:02:41] <mrsun> using gear oil for mopeds atm ...
[08:02:46] <mrsun> or engine oil or whatever its called =)
[08:02:56] <mrsun> seems to work, no wear in the bushing as of yet
[08:02:59] <mrsun> but doesnt feel right :P
[08:05:22] <mrsun> SAE80 ... :P
[08:07:28] <mrsun> or something like that :P
[08:10:48] <archivist> probably too thick , spindle oil is often thinner
[08:11:32] <archivist> bearing will get warm due to the oil viscosity
[08:15:01] <archivist> but I admit nearest unlabelled engine oil gets used here
[08:16:48] <DJ9DJ> moin
[08:19:27] <mrsun> archivist, bearing havent gotten hot yet atleast =)
[08:20:24] <mrsun> OKQ8 Haydn ISO VG 10 <-- is what i read is recomended on a page ... but its in 20L packages .... and that hurts my economy :P
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[09:42:31] <r00t4rd3d> wood
[09:43:48] * archivist wraps up the wood in paper
[09:43:57] <r00t4rd3d> http://firstpersontetris.com/
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[14:02:01] * skunkworks buys the cheapest non-detergent engine oil also..
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[14:02:37] <skunkworks> for most oiling applications. Also gets mixes with WD-40 for lite machining..
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[14:47:18] <FredrikHson> do anyone have any idea why this might have happened? http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/1685/errorolw.jpg
[14:47:51] <FredrikHson> have run that program before before i reinstalled with a newer version
[14:48:42] <archivist> you seem to have lost some steps
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[14:49:19] <FredrikHson> i would think that but i don't see how
[14:49:47] <FredrikHson> its not like i was close to the endstops or anything like that
[14:50:26] <archivist> running at accelerations and speeds too close you your limits maybe
[14:50:36] <archivist> to your
[14:50:41] <FredrikHson> nope same as before i reinstalled
[14:50:57] <archivist> reinstalled what
[14:51:04] <FredrikHson> the entire system
[14:51:14] <FredrikHson> ran some ancient version before
[14:51:32] <FredrikHson> anyway i have done a simpler pcb between this at the same speeds with this version
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[14:52:37] <FredrikHson> any chance that the timing values could be put off by the screen saver or something?
[14:52:53] <Connor> Screen saver?
[14:52:56] <FredrikHson> i really should turn that thing off next time i go out there
[14:52:58] <Connor> Dump that.
[14:52:59] <micges> FredrikHson: you've reinstalled what? linuxcnc or ubuntu?
[14:53:06] <FredrikHson> both :P
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[14:53:23] <micges> did you checked latency-test on reinstalled system?
[14:53:44] <FredrikHson> yes and it spiked way past any usable values but runs usually fine on the defaults
[14:53:55] <FredrikHson> since i don't actually use the computer for anything else
[14:54:52] <micges> if it's spiked then there is rt stability problem
[14:55:02] <micges> you're using lpt ?
[14:55:07] <FredrikHson> yes
[14:55:45] <micges> so probably you're seeing spikes results on this board
[14:56:15] <FredrikHson> it would be a rather large spike to be 5mm wrong and only once
[14:56:43] <pcw_home> Only long enough to stall on a slew
[14:57:27] <pcw_home> doesnt take much
[14:58:02] <micges> hi Peter
[14:58:16] <FredrikHson> going to go check if i didn't already turn off that blasted screensaver not that it was any issue on the older version
[14:58:51] <pcw_home> Hi Micges
[14:59:44] <micges> FredrikHson: study this: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?TroubleShooting
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[15:03:28] <pcw_home> micges: I got the 6I25 flash via bridge program working so even a 6I25 with a blank EEPROM can be initialized/recovered (though normally you would use the 5I25 program as it is much faster)
[15:04:39] <micges> great
[15:05:11] <FredrikHson> ok only a blank screen screensaver and normal jitter of 9k and 250k when i opened the screensaver settings
[15:06:04] <micges> FredrikHson: how fast did you run this board program?
[15:07:07] <FredrikHson> 700ish i think
[15:07:21] <FredrikHson> i know i can run 850 without problems
[15:07:34] <micges> mm?
[15:07:36] <FredrikHson> topping out at like 1000 .. i think that was it
[15:09:04] <pcw_home> mm/min?
[15:09:44] <FredrikHson> yes
[15:09:45] <micges> with that spike there will be 3mm error
[15:10:29] <micges> so that spikes are problem
[15:11:10] <FredrikHson> the problem then is where the hell do the spikes come from
[15:11:43] <FredrikHson> running the jitter test now and after a few mins it shoots up to 250k from being stable at 7-9k
[15:12:45] <pcw_home> what motherboard?
[15:14:45] <FredrikHson> its a lifebook e7010 laptop
[15:16:22] <archivist> laptops have powere management to keep the processor cool and save battery, they are bad for good realtime
[15:18:06] <FredrikHson> and is usually turned off when the power cord is plugged in but went in and disabled it in the bios anyway now
[15:18:28] <FredrikHson> but i doubt that will be any different with the spikes
[15:19:09] <micges> in 8.04 all power management was diasabled in rt kernel
[15:19:48] <micges> in 10.04 there are few minor leftovers, so maybe this is problem
[15:21:09] <FredrikHson> that could have something to do with it even if all the settings where off other than the blank screensaver
[15:21:14] <micges> and my experience with laptops was that most of them doesn't work at all
[15:21:30] <FredrikHson> nope the cpu performance bios thing did nothing as i suspected
[15:22:00] <FredrikHson> well this has worked with the old whatever the version number was
[15:22:32] <FredrikHson> still got the hdd from that just would have to tweak my python code for the jog pendant to work with that tho
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[15:35:05] <FredrikHson> ok found the spikes in the wiki and looks similar so i guess i have to do what that thing says then
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[15:37:45] <IchGuckLive> hi all i try to update my linuxcnc
[15:38:49] <IchGuckLive> im on lucid no realtime i did ppa"deb http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/ lucid master-sim" into synaptic paket source
[15:39:10] <IchGuckLive> reloaded and update
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[15:39:49] <IchGuckLive> this gave me the "2.6.0-pre0-3028-g394be3e" im missinf axis-foam to test
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[15:40:17] <IchGuckLive> isent this into master ?
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[15:46:26] <micges> IchGuckLive: probably foam configs were not added to deb file
[15:47:11] <IchGuckLive> is it in deb-src
[15:47:26] <IchGuckLive> or only into 2.5 maybe
[15:48:18] <IchGuckLive> it is so confusing to me the hole buildbot side what to find in whitch ppa
[15:50:34] <IchGuckLive> also in my local git compile ther wars a axis-foam no its not there O.O
[15:51:11] <IchGuckLive> this is shit so i lost the hole system for foam by updating to master
[15:51:29] <IchGuckLive> i will go back to 2.5 and see if it works fine again
[15:53:32] <IchGuckLive> do i need to unistall linuxcnc first
[15:54:18] <FredrikHson> micges: managed to get rid of the spikes using http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?FixingSMIIssues :D
[15:54:32] <FredrikHson> or at least i think i did going to let the latency test run for a while now
[15:54:42] <micges> FredrikHson: great
[15:55:18] <IchGuckLive> FredrikHson: copy large files >100MB around
[15:55:34] <FredrikHson> i don't have large files lying around :P
[15:55:54] <FredrikHson> and as long as it can run perfectly without doing anything else then i am happy with that
[15:56:11] <IchGuckLive> SMI takes affect if the HDD is in use
[15:56:50] <IchGuckLive> if you use Tooltable you will be not perfect if HDD is going up
[15:57:03] <IchGuckLive> so test on HDD traffic
[15:57:05] <FredrikHson> using tool 1 for everything :P
[15:57:18] <IchGuckLive> NO CRC in use
[15:57:22] <FredrikHson> haven't got a toolchanger so why bother with toollengths
[15:57:51] <FredrikHson> but sure i have a movie on my usb stick so copying that to the hd
[15:58:57] <FredrikHson> getting numbers of 11-16k now and when just doing the test and nothing else 7-9k
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[15:59:05] <FredrikHson> but no more 250k spikes
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[16:01:03] <FredrikHson> had the base period set to 20k apparently before so "should" be fine now but only one way of finding out for sure
[16:01:32] <IchGuckLive> go for 25k if you only use Steppers
[16:01:38] <IchGuckLive> on the parport
[16:03:09] <FredrikHson> btw where do i change that in the ini file diretly so i don't mess up my other settings from running the stepgen wizzard
[16:03:39] <IchGuckLive> if it is on 100000 and 1MIo its ok
[16:04:37] <FredrikHson> for the servo and base periods?
[16:04:44] <IchGuckLive> yes
[16:04:55] <FredrikHson> ok good set at those already
[16:05:52] <FredrikHson> i should do one thing while i have the laptop inside here already
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[16:06:19] <IchGuckLive> stepconf dont regonise this at all
[16:06:20] <FredrikHson> reprogram my jog pendant for the 4th speed mode to be set to the velocity mode instead of pos
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[16:09:48] <absinthetized> hi there
[16:09:55] <IchGuckLive> B)
[16:10:05] <absinthetized> would like to know if anyone here has experience with the mesa 7i43 card
[16:10:13] <absinthetized> the one driven by usb/parport
[16:10:14] <jdhNC> I have one.
[16:10:19] <absinthetized> GREAT!
[16:10:37] <absinthetized> I'm going to buy one of them but I'm not really sure about a couple of things...
[16:10:41] <jdhNC> mine is a non-USB one though.
[16:11:13] <jdhNC> unless you really want the pport one for some reason, you might be happier with a PCI 5i25
[16:11:45] <absinthetized> jdhNC: well pci is dyeing and 5i25 here in europe is more expensive than 7i43
[16:11:56] <absinthetized> an has a lot of i/o not required by my app
[16:12:35] <absinthetized> the doubt is: I've not seen any base thread setting for steppers... do mesa card have on board hw timing?
[16:12:54] <jdhNC> no base thread for mesa, the fpga does the step timing
[16:13:25] <absinthetized> ok and is it fast enough? I mean... currently we have a prototype driven by a soft timing with jitter at 20000
[16:13:32] <mozmck> pci is dying but you want a parport attached board?!?
[16:13:35] <IchGuckLive> absinthetized: im in germany do you got the card on the internal parport i advise to use a pci parport extension card
[16:13:41] <absinthetized> is it as fast as this
[16:13:45] <absinthetized> sorry
[16:13:55] <pcw_home> PCI is in lots of new motherbards
[16:13:56] <absinthetized> is 7i43 as fast as my soft timing?
[16:14:10] <pcw_home> 25 MHz max step rate
[16:14:16] <absinthetized> the idea was to by the usb one
[16:14:35] <absinthetized> also because I need to move the pc on one side of the machine and the mesa card and all the automation on the other side
[16:14:50] <absinthetized> 25 on the 7i43 or on the pci models?
[16:15:03] <jdhNC> No usb for linuxcnc
[16:15:14] <absinthetized> ah no usb just parport... mmm
[16:15:48] <pcw_home> its 1/4 of ClockLow (which varies by card) slowest is 8.33 MHz
[16:15:57] <absinthetized> ok anyway I can buy a parport and even if I'm a bit scarried about the parport/pci combo
[16:16:20] <absinthetized> i can still use a par port wire to connect the computational system to the drive system
[16:16:39] <absinthetized> do you thik this is *bad* generally speaking?
[16:16:53] <pcw_home> just use a new MB with PP (atom 525 for example)
[16:17:13] <absinthetized> yeah currently we are using atom as cnc machine
[16:17:20] <pcw_home> or even dn2800
[16:17:45] <absinthetized> we are now on d425 an plan to move to d2500 or d2800
[16:17:54] <absinthetized> mmm... maybe dn not d :-)
[16:18:21] <pcw_home> or use the 5I25/6I25
[16:18:34] <absinthetized> we currently use a soft timing of 20 which is like an hw timing of 10 I think
[16:19:10] <absinthetized> pcw_home: yes but I *need* to mount a relatively long wire between the atom and the drivers and using a par port cable is imho
[16:19:17] <absinthetized> better than a common flat ribbon
[16:19:30] <absinthetized> maybe I'm just paranoid about the whole pci + ribbon think
[16:19:30] <pcw_home> so use a 5I25/6I25
[16:19:42] <absinthetized> we are talknin about 2/3 meters of cable
[16:20:13] <pcw_home> works fine with 5I26/6I25/daughtercard
[16:21:00] <absinthetized> so you suggest to buy a 5i25 and use a daughter board on parport?
[16:21:44] <pcw_home> using IEEE1284 cable each signal has a twisted pair gnd
[16:21:46] <pcw_home> (5I25 _is_ a parallel port)
[16:22:00] <pcw_home> well parallel port replacement
[16:22:12] <IchGuckLive> absinthetized: witch country are you in
[16:22:15] <jdhNC> I can hook my printer up to a 5i25?
[16:22:22] <absinthetized> IchGuckLive: italy
[16:22:38] <IchGuckLive> the carda are available in austria
[16:22:39] <absinthetized> I've found 2 resellers here 1 in germany and one in cech republic
[16:23:07] <absinthetized> mmm maybe it was in austria and not in germany... :-/
[16:23:30] <pcw_home> jdhNC sure, with the right firmware...
[16:23:40] <absinthetized> so you think replacing the parport + 7i43 with a 5i25 + daughter is a better idea in the end...
[16:24:38] <pcw_home> Faster mainly (less CPU overhead) but overkill if you are OK with parallel port
[16:25:14] <pcw_home> It can also work with existing breakouts
[16:25:22] <absinthetized> ah ok! I think I got it pcw_home... I'll surf the mesa site (and resellers sites) for a while in order to keep the final decision
[16:26:05] <absinthetized> thanx again guys! see ya!
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[16:28:26] <IchGuckLive> pcw_home: did you see i updated the link for the side where to get the cards in europe as some wars dead
[16:29:30] <pcw_home> Thanks! I dont keep up on what our resellers are up to
[16:29:40] <micges> IchGuckLive: what page?
[16:29:53] <IchGuckLive> it is very hard to get to your cards from Germany
[16:30:10] <IchGuckLive> micges: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Mesa_Cards
[16:31:48] <micges> IchGuckLive: in germany lascar.com have many of mesa boards
[16:32:02] <micges> but I don't know if they oficially reseller
[16:32:14] <micges> and they are expensive
[16:32:43] <IchGuckLive> lascar is not longer existing
[16:33:01] <pcw_home> They are but you are right they are expensive (Germany does not make exporting easy)
[16:33:40] <micges> they does exist in april :)
[16:33:40] <IchGuckLive> i paid 3487USD final for the %i25+7i76
[16:33:49] <IchGuckLive> 348USD
[16:33:58] <pcw_home> Yow
[16:34:46] <IchGuckLive> it wars a miss over the Florida Navel base deliverd to AFB Ramstein
[16:35:44] <IchGuckLive> ok going to Eat somthing By
[16:38:21] <Loetmichel> ... and i thougt i would make to much typos ;-)
[16:41:09] <micges> heh
[16:46:29] <Loetmichel> (especially the "german" ones like switching if/when 'cause both are "wenn" in german or writing "war" instead of "was" and so on ;-)
[16:47:08] <jdhNC> some people here say something that sounds like 'war' instead of 'was'
[16:49:32] <pcw_home> maybe its halfway morph between was and were
[16:49:49] <Loetmichel> hrhr
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[16:50:45] <Loetmichel> talking english on the phone has some strange sideeffects, too...
[16:51:38] <Loetmichel> if i talk a while with some american/english supplier and been asked something in german by a colleague i will respond in englisch ;-)
[16:52:10] <Loetmichel> and not noticing that i had spoken english to my german co-worker...
[16:52:46] <Loetmichel> ... which is bad because some of them are from east germany and havent learned english in school but russian instead ;-)
[16:56:57] <IchGuckLive> Loetmichel: agree on the flight back from SH after 3weeks in the USA i takt to the german stuardess also in english
[16:58:34] <alex4nder> yoh
[16:58:43] <IchGuckLive> B)
[17:02:54] <jdhNC> pcw: rural .nc.us, was/were/etc are often interchangeable
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[17:09:39] <jd896> Hi all
[17:11:43] <IchGuckLive> B) name conversion from jdnc ?
[17:13:46] <jd896> Me ?
[17:14:17] <IchGuckLive> yes
[17:14:36] <jd896> No mate always been jd896
[17:14:58] <IchGuckLive> ah O.O
[17:15:04] * jdhNC hands out an 'h'
[17:19:41] <IchGuckLive> jdhNC: did you make the BOB to the 7i43 yourself ?
[17:23:19] <jdhNC> nope. 7i47 for stepgens, pwmgen & encoder, 7i37ta for IO
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[17:26:36] <jdhNC> The only issue I've had is that when I start EMC, the PWMGEN pin seems to go high briefly which triggers my pwm->analog_out to spin up the spindle briefly.
[17:27:16] <IchGuckLive> ah
[17:27:28] <IchGuckLive> do you use the encoder inputs ?
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[17:27:48] <jdhNC> not yet. Still working on a spindle encoder
[17:28:04] <jdhNC> speaking of which.
[17:28:14] <IchGuckLive> B)
[17:28:57] <jdhNC> what about drilling/tapping a hole in the spindle motor shaft to add a timing gear pulley to drive an encoder?
[17:29:16] <IchGuckLive> i need some general understanding ! DC SERVO with encoder the Gecko320 has all and needs only step/DIR
[17:29:34] <IchGuckLive> the encoder on the mesa
[17:30:12] * jdhNC points at pcw
[17:30:13] <IchGuckLive> is this for H-brige out to the Driver and encoder in to the mesa
[17:30:33] <IchGuckLive> as we all only drive steppers the cheep version
[17:31:11] <IchGuckLive> the H-brige normaly takes for my NOOP understanding 2 signals PWM
[17:31:21] <pcw_home> The Gecko 320 can work as a stand alone step/dir drive for brush motors (no encoder feedback needed)
[17:31:42] <IchGuckLive> to hold the DC motor and if one pwm changes the motor turns to eighter side
[17:32:56] <IchGuckLive> and then the encoder tells the mesa-> linuxcnc if it has reatched the point end the pwm is equaled
[17:33:16] <IchGuckLive> or iam totaly wrong on that system servo based
[17:33:50] <pcw_home> with a simple PWM drive you need encoder feedback (the PWM drive sets the motor voltage)
[17:33:52] <pcw_home> LinxCNC controls the motor voltage with a PID loop
[17:34:08] <pcw_home> LinuxCNC
[17:34:23] <jdhNC> emc is a much more typeable name
[17:34:24] <IchGuckLive> ah Nice understanding
[17:34:48] <IchGuckLive> we shoudt use LC
[17:35:00] <IchGuckLive> in the chanel here
[17:35:16] <pcw_home> PWM is very approximately like velocity mode control
[17:35:26] <IchGuckLive> and put it up to the topic LC=Linuxcnc
[17:37:18] <uw> so i have a design where a servo is stepped down 3:1
[17:37:27] <uw> however the encoder is still on the servo
[17:37:30] <pcw_home> the PID loop senses position errors and changes motor voltage to correct the position
[17:37:48] <uw> is this a decent recommended means for feedback?
[17:39:07] <uw> as in, the between the lead screw and the belt, theres a 3:1 ratio, completed by a toothed belt
[17:39:30] <pcw_home> Yes, of course accuracy will be reduced by any backlash/spring in the reduction
[17:39:31] <uw> lead screw and the *servo motor
[17:40:46] <uw> so it would be best to go to a larger motor, or put the encoder elsewhere?
[17:41:49] <pcw_home> Well if you have backlash it needs to be fixed regardless
[17:41:51] <pcw_home> and with a single encoder I would leave it on the motor
[17:42:56] <pcw_home> (other wise its really easy to get resonances with belt springyness)
[17:42:56] <uw> ok
[17:43:16] <uw> yes i am new to using this belt method
[17:43:42] <Tom_itx> i know it's best handled in hardware but does software backlash compensation work pretty well?
[17:44:00] <uw> i was only thinking about it because the motors have a toothed belt pully on them already. and they are too small to drive the axis by themselves
[17:44:10] <pcw_home> direct drive is perhaps better but more costly (other options are 2 encoders)
[17:44:58] <uw> fortunately i didn't build any of this yet.
[17:45:24] <pcw_home> I think the backlash compensation works well if the cutting force direction stays the same...
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[17:47:19] <Tom_itx> what about circles
[17:47:28] <uw> Tom_itx, yea define pretty well? I mean, its pretty much x # of motor steps are useless after changing direction. It really depends on how much backlash is in question here.
[17:48:05] <uw> i would say thats probably a bad time
[17:48:27] <uw> but it all depends on what you expect out of it rather
[17:49:06] <uw> i mean, without buying any new hardware, i would surely go with a software backlash solution rather than nothing
[17:50:11] <uw> pcw_home, another quick question. Have you ever seen people use those digital linear scales for feedback?
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[18:00:03] <pcw_home> If you are thinking of the caliper type, they are too slow for real applications
[18:00:04] <pcw_home> but standard linear encoders sure
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[18:12:48] <IchGuckLive> by and thanks all for the info
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[18:21:26] <uw> ok thanks pcw_home
[18:21:50] <uw> guess there's no way to do this other than spend alot of money lol
[18:22:30] <pcw_home> IICRC the caliper type scales are only good for about a 30 Hz update rate
[18:24:17] <archivist> when I tried a caliper scale I think it was even slower, useless
[18:24:55] <pcw_home> Some have different operational modes for remote access
[18:26:32] <pcw_home> and on at least some scales theres a high speed repetitive readout mode (high being relative to the normal couple of Hz that they update the LDC)
[18:26:41] <pcw_home> LCD
[18:27:31] <uw> yes i believe thats the mode mine has, however most of it needs to be average else it's garbage
[18:27:52] <uw> i havent really messed with that scale too much though honestly
[18:28:26] <uw> only put it on a scope just to see what would happen
[18:29:38] <uw> but the 30hz per accurate measurement seems about right
[18:29:51] <pcw_home> I've considered adding an interface to that type of scale (As I recall they are slightly funky with ~1V signals and maybe even positive gnd)
[18:31:29] <uw> i have built a protobord coverter based on this man's work. http://www.yadro.de
[18:32:00] <uw> however that was over 3 years ago and i cant tell you too much offhand here
[18:32:42] <andypugh> pcw_home: I think that a sserial K-type thermocouple interface might be a winner. For those reprap types.
[18:33:15] <andypugh> Though I am not sure they spend actual money :-)
[18:33:56] <pcw_home> We have a 8 channel TC sserial interface in the pipe but it probably overkill
[18:34:03] <pcw_home> its
[18:34:44] <pcw_home> I think we expect to support at least K/T/J
[18:34:52] <andypugh> Just a little Add-on for a 7i76, maybe. 2 channels and 2 SSRs to control the heater element.
[18:35:54] <pcw_home> Yeah I'll think about it (even the 7I76 is overkill for most small things)
[18:36:36] <pcw_home> maybe a specifc daughtercard for that type of app
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[18:37:56] <pcw_home> Do the repraps normally use line powered AC heaters?
[18:39:49] <andypugh> I think that they tend to use 12V actually, but that strikes me as silly.
[18:40:37] <andypugh> If I built one it would a proper dangerous 240V :-)
[18:40:57] <pcw_home> I guess if you are making your own Nichrome element that may short to the housing I'd want 12/24V as well
[18:41:24] <archivist> we have a real earth so 240 is safe :)
[18:41:35] <pcw_home> Yow
[18:42:14] <andypugh> Yeah, I would be pretty careful about earthing it, and have an RCD for good measure
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[18:43:00] <andypugh> I got scared when I saw 700+V DC on my voltage-doubling rectifier + caps, though.
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[18:44:51] <pcw_home> I grabbed a 600V bus in a tube instrument one time I woke up lying on the ground wondering what happened...
[18:45:21] <andypugh> That's the better of the two outcomes.
[18:45:46] <jd896> Ow that sounds nasty
[18:45:50] <archivist> I was a radio and tv engineer back in the 1970's so met some voltage now and again :)
[18:46:04] <pcw_home> I try and stay away from HV now
[18:46:38] <archivist> occasional shock keeps you careful
[18:46:52] <jd896> Makes you think deff
[18:47:20] <alex4nder> yoh
[18:48:07] <jd896> Once didn't bother turning power of to one of our cranes when it packed up thinking ah I'll only be 110volt found out after a kick it was 415 to the pendant
[18:48:35] <jd896> Was lucky tho only got a small buzz
[18:48:44] <jd896> Nothing like pcw
[18:49:09] <pcw_home> Like my father used to say, dont do that, you'll run up the light bill :-)
[18:49:33] <jd896> Ha I like it
[18:51:01] <uw> i knew somebody back in high school who died from 480v. it was not pretty and i steer clear of that whenever i can.
[18:51:12] <andypugh> Hmm, it looks like I missed a trick when I ordered the memory for this Atom board. It is the same as my Mac, so I could have upgraded the Mac and moved the memory to the Atom.
[18:51:22] <micges> when I was 3 I put nail into wall socket
[18:51:46] <pcw_home> was it a learning experience?
[18:52:16] <micges> yes
[18:52:27] <archivist> micges, you remind me of my attempt to weld with some solder off the mains socket as a kid :)
[18:52:40] <andypugh> In the UK that takes effort. As there is a shield operated by the earth pin. Parent's who don't know this put plastic blanking plugs in the socket, providing the kiddies with a handy tool to open the shutters with.
[18:53:15] <archivist> I was in Libya at the time 110 two pin
[18:53:36] <micges> pcw_home: I always checking every cables twice :)
[18:53:56] <micges> archivist: early experiments :)
[18:54:00] <archivist> causing havoc age 10 ish :)
[18:55:52] <pcw_home> I think (but dont remember) that I must have done that as a youngster
[18:55:54] <pcw_home> as well because I do remember I had a deathly fear of wall outlets for a long time
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[18:56:42] <pcw_home> something about an electrical monster sneaking out of the outlet to get me
[18:57:49] <andypugh> Aha! A web site about the subject: http://www.fatallyflawed.org.uk/
[18:57:52] <micges> I also didn't remember but I had scar for 4 years
[18:58:10] <andypugh> We might have big ugly clunky sockets, but they are relatively safe.
[18:58:12] <pcw_home> Wow thats bad
[18:58:41] <archivist> one thing taught amongst electrical/electronic engineers is keeping one hand in a pocket while diving inside hot equipment so you dont get current across ones heart
[18:59:14] <micges> andypugh: it was in old big comunistic building, two holes nothing else
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[19:54:13] <dkirtley> Hi all, Is there a repository that would have schematics/docs on setting up touch probe for EMC2? Will have to come off second LPT (or something) as all pins are in use on primary.
[19:54:37] <dkirtley> I came up empty on linuxcnc wiki.
[19:56:01] <archivist> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Touch_Probe
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[19:56:42] <dkirtley> merci beaucoup. Was looking in the wrong place.
[20:07:34] <andypugh> dkirtley: You could consider using the serial port status lines. There is a HAL component.
[20:09:11] <dkirtley> andypugh: thanks, I do have an extra parallel port on machine already so it should not be too much of a problem. Will prob start with a quick and dirty to set tool and then get to making something a bit fancier
[20:14:13] <andypugh> A challenge: What is a weekend source of larg-diameter tube? Ideally a length of aluminium scaffolding, but any material will do of around that size or bigger
[20:14:54] <andypugh> I am thinking about "breakfast bar support legs" from Ikea. Possibly a length of exhaust pipe from an exhaust fitter. Any other ideas?
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[20:33:11] <archivist> andypugh, local scrap yard?
[20:34:14] <uw> also the side of the road sometimes there are knocked down signs that have nice alum poles
[20:34:44] <uw> but youll need to bring a portable saw or something as they are pretty long
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[20:36:47] <uw> oh i read you ment exhaust pipe diameter
[20:37:21] <uw> yea you might not even need to cut some of those size poles
[20:37:32] <andypugh> Larger is fine. I jave just been to the corner shop on my pushbike, and I did notice an awful lot of useful-looking street furniture.
[20:38:03] <uw> like fallen street signs even. a bunch of them ive came across were aluminum, easily 1/4" wall too
[20:39:47] <Jymmm> andypugh: chain link fence pipe, conduit
[20:40:42] <Jymmm> andypugh: easily available at 3am all around town
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[21:02:36] <gene77> Andy?
[21:02:54] <DJ9DJ> gn8
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[21:04:13] <gene77> axis.3.f-error seems fairly straight line dependent on z speed, 150 u-volts max during retrace
[21:05:06] <gene77> I'll be back later, its dinner time here
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[21:52:10] <andypugh> Ah my. I never thought I would be installing XP SP3 again...
[21:52:30] <frallzor> correct me if im wrong, but isnt a SS-screw supposed to be pretty strong?
[21:52:38] <andypugh> Yes
[21:52:47] <andypugh> Did you break it with your teeth?
[21:53:54] <frallzor> by regulaw philips
[21:53:58] <frallzor> *regular
[21:56:17] <andypugh> The tensile force would have been pretty big. Screws do that.
[21:56:52] <roycroft> stainless steel is relatively hard, but it doesn't have great tensile strength or shear strength
[21:57:43] <frallzor> would have thought that it atleast would handle to be screwed into wood with pre-drilled holes =)
[21:57:46] <frallzor> but nooooo
[21:57:48] <andypugh> That's a blanket statement and largely wrong :-)
[21:58:15] <roycroft> yes, i did not identify relative to what
[21:58:53] <roycroft> people have the notion that stainless steel fasteners have super strength for whatever they try to do with them
[21:59:05] <roycroft> they're fairly non-corrosive, which is good
[21:59:27] <roycroft> but you don't use a ss bolt in lieu of a grade 8 bolt
[21:59:45] <roycroft> where a grade 8 bolt is required, of course
[22:02:00] <andypugh> I would use A4 in palce of a grade 8.8 but not a 12.9. I think we are talking about different "grades" though. I ought to add Stainless to my table at http://www.bodgesoc.org/strengths.html
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[22:12:01] <Jymmm> andypugh: Were you unhappy with the new mobo?
[22:12:51] <frallzor> tips on removing broken screws from wood? =)
[22:13:17] <Jymmm> drill bit
[22:13:26] <frallzor> preferably quick answers before I go to the crappy store that sold me the screws and the "approiate" drill and burn it down
[22:13:46] <andypugh> frallzor: I guess it is below the surface?
[22:14:03] <frallzor> few mm outside
[22:14:30] <Jymmm> boiling water and needle nose
[22:14:31] <andypugh> Mole (Vise) grips then.
[22:14:37] <frallzor> cant grip it with my tools
[22:14:46] <frallzor> its "pointy"
[22:15:08] <andypugh> Do you have a welder?
[22:15:14] <frallzor> nope
[22:15:20] <mhaberler> Jymmm: http://www.3m.com/intl/ca/english/centres/home_leisure/duct_tape/movie.html
[22:15:20] <andypugh> Buy a welder...
[22:16:07] <Jymmm> frallzor: drill a big ass hole next to it?
[22:16:26] <Jymmm> frallzor: hole saw it out =)
[22:16:32] <frallzor> if not ruined yet, then the piece will be after that
[22:16:38] <frallzor> trying to save this fucker =(
[22:16:50] <Jymmm> what is it?
[22:17:03] <Jymmm> mhaberler: heh
[22:17:03] <frallzor> piece of oak for a "holder"
[22:17:35] <Jymmm> drill a tiny hole nect to it and use a bigger replacement screw
[22:17:53] <frallzor> cant do that =(
[22:18:22] <frallzor> no room for new holes on the part it was supposed to be screwed too
[22:18:26] <Jymmm> then make it firewood
[22:18:49] <Jymmm> frallzor: did you drill pilot holes?
[22:19:23] <frallzor> yup
[22:19:32] <Jymmm> you could SLOT the end with a dremel
[22:19:45] <Jymmm> then you should made em bigger pilots =)
[22:19:46] <frallzor> trying to dig a hole into the piece now
[22:20:07] <frallzor> I asked the store for a suitable drill, Ill holed em accounable =)
[22:20:13] <frallzor> had it all with me to show
[22:20:34] <Jymmm> Crown Bolt brand screws?
[22:20:58] * frallzor lives in Sweden
[22:21:04] <Jymmm> ah
[22:21:36] <Jymmm> when you heard it squeeking, you should stopped.
[22:21:46] <frallzor> it just broke =)
[22:21:52] <frallzor> no warningsounds
[22:22:01] <Jymmm> that sucks
[22:22:49] <Jymmm> I've broke a few SS screws in wood before, and with good sized pilot holes too.
[22:23:09] <andypugh> If you have a big soldering iron, then you might be able to heat it enough that is chars the hole, and comes loose.
[22:23:39] <andypugh> It is worth greasing stainless screws (and brass ones) when driving in to oak.
[22:24:01] <Jymmm> andypugh: Oh, NOW you tell me =)
[22:24:10] <andypugh> Also, always use a cordless drill, don't let it stop.
[22:24:41] <andypugh> I have driven thousands of screws into oak (solid oak floorboards)
[22:24:41] <Jymmm> I was useing a cordless drill, just 3.5" screws into studs =)
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[22:35:14] <andypugh> Plan B would be to punch it below the surface and then insert a cross-grain dowel plug made from a carefully selected offcut of the same bit of wood.
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[22:35:45] <frallzor> tried drilling all around it now, just to get that shitbag out
[22:35:49] <frallzor> no go =/
[22:36:28] <andypugh> Metals stick in oak, even stainless.
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[22:39:25] <frallzor> heyhey
[22:39:36] <frallzor> Im Crusty the screw extracting clown
[22:40:08] <andypugh> frallzor: Too late now. But you ought to have sat back, had a think, and then started with ideas, least destructive first. There are ways.
[22:40:26] <frallzor> this worked out
[22:40:42] <frallzor> seems to possible to put in a new screw even
[22:40:44] <andypugh> Best bet now is probably a miling cutter and a cross-grain plug
[22:40:53] <andypugh> Ah, OK.
[22:40:54] <frallzor> filled it up with some "filler"
[22:41:02] <andypugh> Eeeew!
[22:41:23] <frallzor> few toothpicks and lots of wood glue! =)
[22:41:40] <frallzor> im a genius!
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[22:42:58] <andypugh> Depressingly, you probably are
[22:44:23] <frallzor> will work for the application, why do more =)
[22:44:36] <andypugh> robin_sz: Where can I get a 1m long >40mm dia metal tube from, on a saturday? For bonus points, within walking distance as 1m long tubes are a challenge on an R1
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[22:49:13] <robin_sz> i suppose "cut off one of the fork legs" is not a good answer?
[22:49:55] <robin_sz> bit of scaff tube?
[22:49:59] <andypugh> Too small, and 2 short. (maybe not on the GasGas, actually)
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[22:50:22] <frallzor> turned out fine =)
[22:50:32] <andypugh> Yeah, a bit of scaff tube would be perfect. Where do you get it on a weekend? (or at all?)
[22:50:47] <robin_sz> scrounge from local builder
[22:50:59] <frallzor> this is a very importan project so I needed it to be done
[22:51:14] <frallzor> drinkholder in oak and SS for garden furniture
[22:51:22] <frallzor> very important
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[22:52:03] <robin_sz> prolly not builders merchant, but local builders yard, or just go find where some houses are going up
[22:52:51] <andypugh> You expect to see anyone on a site on a saturday?
[22:52:58] <robin_sz> nope
[22:53:03] <robin_sz> this is a good thing right?
[22:53:11] <robin_sz> actually, sat morning, yes
[22:53:18] <robin_sz> what you want is a "putlog"
[22:53:28] <andypugh> Not when I need help reducing to bike-portable length.
[22:53:59] <robin_sz> putlogs are the bits that go from the horizontals into a mortar joint
[22:53:59] <andypugh> Yeah, my dad has a stack of them.
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[22:54:26] <robin_sz> well, get scrounging :)
[22:54:34] <andypugh> Though, oddly, he has his own name for them that he got from his dad.
[22:54:44] <robin_sz> where do you live again?
[22:55:12] <andypugh> I live in Basildon. My dad has enough scaff for a house in Huddersfield,
[22:55:50] <robin_sz> should be easy in that neck of the woods
[22:56:01] <robin_sz> basildon, its essex
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[22:56:07] <robin_sz> home of the cowboy builder
[22:56:39] <robin_sz> that or your local fabricator, armed with a tenner
[22:57:36] <andypugh> I don't actually know anyone on Essex. I have been here 10 years and not made any new acquaintances. I only know people from college or internet.
[22:58:19] <robin_sz> well, now is your opportunity
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[22:58:28] <andypugh> I did find a stainless exhaust manufacturer in the adjacent industrial estate, might be worth a trip.
[22:58:42] <robin_sz> they will all knock off by 12
[22:58:59] <andypugh> Yeah,and I was planning on being asleep then
[22:59:14] <robin_sz> order from metal supermarket then
[22:59:29] <robin_sz> http://www.metalsupermarkets.com/MetalGuide.aspx?CategoryID=BLACK_STEEL&ProductID=TUBE_ROUND&ProductSubCategory=EN3B
[22:59:42] <robin_sz> or do you want seemless?
[22:59:45] <andypugh> Deliveries of long stuff are a problem.
[22:59:49] <robin_sz> seamless even
[22:59:55] <robin_sz> 1m is long?
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[23:00:20] <andypugh> too long for my pacel box.
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[23:01:19] <robin_sz> well, just find a fabby near by
[23:01:30] <robin_sz> there must be plenty
[23:01:30] <frallzor> http://www.lolz.se/uploader/pics/IMG_4069.jpg better suited for regular glasses and cans =)
[23:01:55] <andypugh> Perfect, but not tomorrow: http://www.metals4u.co.uk/detail.asp?cat_id=22&prd_id=728
[23:02:21] <syyl_> oh, mobile beerholder?
[23:02:30] <syyl_> you just put the wrong bottle in there
[23:02:39] <frallzor> took what I hade close =P
[23:02:44] <frallzor> *had
[23:03:11] <andypugh> Is that oak? It's a funny colour
[23:03:11] <robin_sz> oh ally, I had assumed steel
[23:03:18] <andypugh> Steel is fine too.
[23:03:26] <robin_sz> you can get ally scaff
[23:03:27] <frallzor> its oiled oak =)
[23:03:46] <syyl_> looks nice
[23:04:16] <andypugh> robin_sz: You mean "Ally scaff exists"
[23:04:27] <frallzor> but its not really for bottles, it keept tipping over so I put one there so it wouldnt =)
[23:04:42] <robin_sz> andypugh, not quite
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[23:05:02] <robin_sz> that would merely imply its existence
[23:05:34] <robin_sz> my comment went further and implied thta it not only existed , but could be obtained as well
[23:05:37] <djdelorie> have you tried www.allyscaff.com ? ;-)
[23:06:24] <andypugh> No, you implied that _I_ could obtain it. To imply the more general case you should have said "one can get ally scaff"
[23:06:58] <robin_sz> looking back ...
[23:07:31] <frallzor> http://open.spotify.com/track/5Ud2nie1VnFNPGrQzS3X7u for all non-swedes in here with spotify =)
[23:07:50] <robin_sz> I think you are correct, my statement specifically mentioned "you" thus, implying no more than it would be obtainable by you
[23:08:08] <robin_sz> one could assume a general availability
[23:08:20] <djdelorie> "you" is a funny word in this language...
[23:08:22] <robin_sz> but you are right, i think it would be wrong to assume it was available to anyone
[23:08:43] <robin_sz> for example nuns might find it tricky to purchase
[23:09:00] <djdelorie> no allyscaff.com, but there is a quickally.com.au . . . not sure how "quick" it would be delivery-wise...
[23:09:10] * robin_sz remembers the problems he had purchasing copper pipe
[23:09:45] <robin_sz> I actually had trouble buying gas fittings
[23:09:52] <robin_sz> because he thought I looked liek a builder
[23:10:05] <robin_sz> I was unsure whether to take that as a compliment
[23:10:17] <andypugh> I imagine that nuns can buy anything they want. They probably get less questions about motivations than most.
[23:10:29] <robin_sz> you think?
[23:10:41] <robin_sz> condoms?
[23:11:13] <robin_sz> Black Sabbath CD's
[23:11:18] <andypugh> Even I have bought condoms.
[23:11:43] <robin_sz> ah happy days
[23:11:47] <robin_sz> then I got married
[23:12:25] <andypugh> Though buying a packet of every type and brand in the shop did get me a funny look.
[23:12:37] <robin_sz> research?
[23:13:04] <andypugh> Yes, as a skin-graft culture substrate.
[23:13:12] <robin_sz> silly me
[23:13:20] <robin_sz> I should have thought of that
[23:14:17] <andypugh> I had bought some several years earlier for the more usual application. ie repairing Z250 carburettor daiphragms.
[23:14:48] <robin_sz> what brand?
[23:15:07] <robin_sz> "stalwarts Dirigibles" "tough and ready for the road"
[23:15:23] <andypugh> I don't recall now, though I do remeber that unlubricated was suggested so that the glue would stick.
[23:15:39] <robin_sz> they are latex though
[23:15:47] <robin_sz> you wold have been better off with nitrile
[23:16:07] <andypugh> I think I used Red Stripe as they had, at the time, a reputation for taking rough treatment.
[23:16:28] <andypugh> And many are not latex. That was part of my research.
[23:16:31] <robin_sz> I ibviously hang around in the wrong cirlces
[23:16:34] <robin_sz> coo
[23:16:37] <robin_sz> really?
[23:16:59] <robin_sz> nitrile?
[23:17:02] <robin_sz> or ?
[23:17:08] <andypugh> Some chaps are sensitive to latex, in areas where one would not want a rash.
[23:17:24] <robin_sz> interesting
[23:17:36] <frallzor> right
[23:18:05] <frallzor> at night emc turns into sex ed.
[23:18:29] <andypugh> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Condom#Materials
[23:18:35] <robin_sz> the man with the melon places his *left* foot on the rotating table ...
[23:18:40] <djdelorie> emc == erectile machine controller ?
[23:18:42] <andypugh> (caution, there be pictures)
[23:18:57] <robin_sz> I had a plan for that 6 axis robot ...
[23:19:06] <robin_sz> but never found anyone willing to try
[23:19:32] <frallzor> andypugh is up for the challenge
[23:19:36] <frallzor> he never backs down
[23:19:56] <andypugh> Nah, that's Sol
[23:20:33] <andypugh> (who robin knows, and the rest of yo don't)
[23:21:33] <frallzor> andypugh you know of that english tv-series about vacation?
[23:21:51] <frallzor> some typical spanish resort I assume
[23:21:52] <andypugh> Fawlty Towers?
[23:22:11] <frallzor> Benidorm!
[23:22:24] <robin_sz> and of course you know the famous story about Churchill and the condoms?
[23:23:53] <robin_sz> the british army asked for them, to use over the ends of rifles on the western front, stopped dirt and ice getting in
[23:24:03] <robin_sz> churchill approved the request
[23:24:32] <robin_sz> and some very large, extra thick ones were produced for the purpose
[23:24:41] <andypugh> (mentioned on that Wiki page, as a use)
[23:24:55] <robin_sz> he instructed they be marked "british army issue ... size medium"
[23:25:39] <andypugh> I am sure that has to be an urban myth, but knowing Churchill's sense of humour..
[23:26:31] * robin_sz nods
[23:27:47] <robin_sz> there are several versions of the story
[23:30:34] <robin_sz> anyway
[23:30:56] <robin_sz> tomorrow I will be playing on the haas again, actually had first chips this week
[23:30:58] <robin_sz> at last
[23:31:27] <robin_sz> I had the fun of programming it by hand, someting I have not done in a while
[23:31:58] <robin_sz> id forgotten how fussy gcode can be
[23:32:20] <robin_sz> G1 X250 F500 ...
[23:32:37] <andypugh> That should work..
[23:32:46] <robin_sz> nope, sir forgot the decimal points, I shall simply ignore that line and continue as if it didnt exist
[23:34:01] <robin_sz> pesky thing could have at least thrown an error
[23:35:05] <robin_sz> or ot might have interpreteed as microns, istr it moveing veeeeerrrry sllllooooowwwwlly
[23:37:33] <andypugh> I simply assumed inches and a reasonably sized machine.
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[23:59:52] <Tom_itx> http://www.ebay.com/itm/South-Bend-9-inch-bench-lathe-/180898700821?_trksid=p4340.m1374&_trkparms=algo%3DUPI.GIROS%26its%3DI%252BC%252BS%26itu%3DUCI%252BUCC%26otn%3D15%26pmod%3D120749536643%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D9000611164026953060