#linuxcnc | Logs for 2012-06-04

[00:00:01] <Jymmm> DesqView FTW!!!
[00:00:14] <Jymmm> I wish I could find a copy of desqview
[00:00:20] <mhaberler> it could be worse. We might still be counting columns.
[00:00:27] <ScribbleJ> hahah
[00:00:42] <ScribbleJ> I used desqview, so I could do things while my 286 ran a BBS.
[00:00:47] <Jymmm> mhaberler: copy con baby, cpy con 40x80
[00:00:56] <ScribbleJ> I'm pretty sure I ran it on my 286, even though that sounds wrong.
[00:00:57] <Jymmm> ScribbleJ: That's what I want it for.
[00:01:03] <Tom_itx> also need to replace my Tx i added as a pause with M1 or M0 i forget which
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[00:01:08] <Tom_itx> which is op stop?
[00:01:22] <mhaberler> 'con' was a prophetic Microsoft device name
[00:01:38] <Jymmm> mhaberler: IT's actually a little more than that =)
[00:01:39] <mhaberler> folks didnt get it right away
[00:02:02] <mhaberler> but they paid dearly
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[00:02:18] <Jymmm> ScribbleJ: you hav a copy by chance?
[00:02:28] <ScribbleJ> No, I gave up that life long ago, UNLIKE SOME PEOPLE.
[00:02:29] <ScribbleJ> :P
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[00:02:39] <mhaberler> uh, oh.
[00:02:56] <Jymmm> ScribbleJ: Bitch! I still use dos today!
[00:02:58] <ScribbleJ> http://www.chsoft.com/dv.html
[00:03:06] <ScribbleJ> I know you do, Jymm, that's why I'm mocking you. :P
[00:03:11] <ScribbleJ> It's all in good fun though.
[00:03:15] <ScribbleJ> At least, I'm enjoying it.
[00:03:16] <ScribbleJ> Haa!
[00:03:55] <Jymmm> ScribbleJ: You think you're mocking me, but it's still useful. Though dj doens't and guess what he wrote?
[00:04:35] <mhaberler> Jymmm: please post a picture of your 'mass storage device' ; am I right we can hope for an 8" floppy, 3740 format and all?
[00:04:40] <ScribbleJ> A limerick?
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[00:05:31] <Jymmm> ScribbleJ: IF you supported DOS, you should know about this then... http://www.delorie.com/djgpp/
[00:06:00] <ScribbleJ> Well, of course I used it back int he day. :)
[00:06:04] <mhaberler> oh, that was a major leap forward
[00:06:07] <ScribbleJ> But that was not anything I would support!
[00:06:17] <Jymmm> ScribbleJ: Not support, but aware of.
[00:06:22] <ScribbleJ> Absolutely.
[00:06:30] <ScribbleJ> I ran a telegard (later Renegade) BBS for many years.
[00:06:40] <Jymmm> SpitFire
[00:06:41] <ScribbleJ> I lusted after an 8-port rocketmodem
[00:06:47] <ScribbleJ> You know what sucks about fate though
[00:06:57] <Jymmm> TW20002 is free now
[00:07:01] <ScribbleJ> Now I have a job where we still run two of them and I hate everything about them.
[00:07:13] <ScribbleJ> I played a shitton of TW2002, and Operation Overkill. And The Pit! Wow.
[00:07:21] <ScribbleJ> Good memories.
[00:07:34] <mhaberler> like so? : http://mah.priv.at/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=36201
[00:07:39] <alex4nder> mhaberler: ok, I got some time to look at it before dinner.. I'm seeing the Tk KeyRelease event isn't propagating
[00:07:39] <Jymmm> Our 911 dispatch uses MS-DOS and has won award for reliability with it
[00:08:04] <ReadError_> gross
[00:08:17] <ScribbleJ> That's amazing.
[00:08:21] <ReadError_> do they have SQL functionality ?
[00:08:35] <ReadError_> or does it store everything on a 5.25 ?
[00:08:36] <Jymmm> ReadError_: sure
[00:08:41] <mhaberler> from reliability point of view, DOS is a no-brainer: there aint much of an OS which can fail
[00:09:10] <Jymmm> Hell I have an AES encryped router running DOS on 2 3c509 cards
[00:09:16] <ScribbleJ> From a programming perspectve, DOS was a pain in the motherfucking ass. I hate, hate, hate hate hate hate hate segment:offset addressing, and having to know if your jump is near or far.
[00:09:22] <ScribbleJ> Fuck. That. Shit. Forever.
[00:09:57] <Jymmm> who was talking smack about 8" FDD?
[00:10:08] <mhaberler> yeah, its a but unfair Intel won the cpu wars with that crap of an architecture
[00:10:22] <Jymmm> I have WORKING 5.25", 3.5" and ZIp drives =)
[00:10:33] <ScribbleJ> I cannot describe the depths of my hatred for that arch.
[00:10:51] <ScribbleJ> I mean, obviously I have a soft spot for all the years I /used/ it but /coding/ on it was a nightmare.
[00:11:09] <ScribbleJ> Haaa, I remember those!
[00:11:16] <ScribbleJ> That's about the last time I used a tape drive. :/
[00:11:26] <Jymmm> ScribbleJ: Heh, I still have Borland Turbo Pascal and Boralnd C++ for DOS =)
[00:11:35] <Jymmm> and the manuals too
[00:11:50] <Jymmm> You needed pascal for SpitFireBBS
[00:12:20] <ScribbleJ> I remember once I had a job interview where I would have to admin some Netware 2.x/3.x boxes and the guy in the interview noted my Netware experience and asked me if I knew what an abend was. And I said no, not really, and he said, "Well, I guess that shows me how much you know about that."
[00:12:24] <ScribbleJ> Pretty fucking humiliating.
[00:12:27] <mhaberler> did you guys ever think of a garage sale in the last 40 years, or what..
[00:12:52] <ScribbleJ> Ah, the folly of youth!
[00:12:53] <ScribbleJ> haa
[00:13:02] <Tom_itx> looks like i need to tweak my post slightly for linuxcnc output
[00:13:08] <mhaberler> no, I just get rid of old crap
[00:13:38] <Jymmm> mhaberler: It's the only thing I've kept 486DX50
[00:13:55] <Jymmm> it's in perfect workign condition
[00:14:06] <mhaberler> you're romantic where it dont count
[00:14:26] <Jymmm> It's only 3"x10"x 14"
[00:14:29] <Tom_itx> if you use an M1 (optional stop) do you need a physical switch to show whether to execute it or not?
[00:14:35] <ReadError_> not many young bucks like myself as linux admins
[00:14:40] <ReadError_> im the last of a dying breed
[00:14:41] <ScribbleJ> I had a job as an IT guy at a company that made ball valves in like 96, ish, and they had CNC machines that used /actual tape/ and a tape puncher.
[00:14:49] <ScribbleJ> I haven't thought about that in a long time.
[00:14:57] <ReadError_> all the kids these days are going windows
[00:15:25] <Jymmm> mhaberler: Also, I've had to pull it out once in a great while to do a data transfer to new media
[00:15:28] <mhaberler> so writing RS274NGC code makes you all really nostalgic, and I can see why
[00:16:14] <mhaberler> it's kinda the champignon management principle
[00:16:32] <ScribbleJ> Naw, haaa... I was just an IT guy. I have only learned things like gcode int he last year or two, since I started building 3D printers.
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[00:16:53] <ScribbleJ> And it's quite a learning curve going fromt he stupid-simple gcode 3d printers use to this!
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[00:17:34] <ScribbleJ> Different coordinate systems? NOPE. Canned cycles? I wish!
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[00:18:42] <alex4nder> ok
[00:18:46] <alex4nder> I have a patch.
[00:18:51] <mhaberler> whoa
[00:19:00] <Jymmm> does it work?
[00:19:02] <alex4nder> yup
[00:19:06] <Jymmm> cool
[00:19:06] <Tom_itx> an eye patch?
[00:19:10] <ReadError_> arrrrrrrrr
[00:19:12] <mhaberler> no details.. fanuc or emc
[00:20:15] <alex4nder> the sideeffect of this patch is that all of the direction keys work as expected now.
[00:20:43] <alex4nder> even with the combobox open
[00:20:49] ReadError_ is now known as ReadError
[00:21:45] <ReadError> push it to the mainline
[00:23:27] <mhaberler> since it seems an old bug, and goes into maintained versions, it should see review
[00:23:50] <mhaberler> it probably should go into 2.4.7
[00:24:14] <alex4nder> yah, I'm not pushing anything, and I'm sure there's a more global/more subtle way to fix the issue.
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[00:25:21] <alex4nder> I don't have axis anyway
[00:25:24] <alex4nder> er access
[00:25:25] <alex4nder> haha
[00:25:27] <alex4nder> axis on the brain
[00:27:11] <alex4nder> ok, bbl
[00:27:23] <mhaberler> cu, I'm off2
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[01:16:54] <Tom_itx> logger[mah]
[01:16:55] <logger[mah]> Tom_itx: Log stored at http://linuxcnc.mah.priv.at/irc/%23linuxcnc/2012-06-04.html
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[01:17:33] <Tom_itx> uhh, that's not good.
[01:18:00] <Tom_itx> pushing touch off in axis to set the G54 X Y offsets starts the spindle?
[01:18:38] <Jymmm> nope, not good at all. miswired/configed?
[01:18:48] <Tom_itx> no
[01:18:52] <Tom_itx> not that i know of
[01:18:59] <Tom_itx> i've tested this quite a while
[01:19:07] <Tom_itx> off and on
[01:19:46] <Tom_itx> just started setting up a job to see what to change in my gcode templates
[01:20:06] <Tom_itx> and see how my current programs run
[01:23:02] <skunkworks__> not had that happen
[01:26:13] <Tom_itx> maybe it was the screensaver? i turned that off just now
[01:30:22] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop you still around?
[01:37:27] <Jymmm> bu can you turn on/off the spindle from linuxcnc?
[01:37:31] <Jymmm> manually
[01:37:44] <Valen> yes
[01:37:52] <Valen> i forget the keys/buttons
[01:38:00] <Jymmm> no that was for Tom_itx
[01:38:32] <Jymmm> Valen: I'm not asking if it's posisble, but if Tom_itx setup is setup properly
[01:39:17] <Jymmm> configured/wired properly that is
[01:41:50] <Tom_itx> i think it may have been the screen saver
[01:42:10] <Tom_itx> i ran thru the whole program this time including setting the G54 fixture offsets
[01:42:37] <Tom_itx> i need to make a couple adjustments to the gcode template but nothing major
[01:43:11] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: So, what you are saying is that a 10,000+ RM spindle is magically randomly controlled at the will of a screen saver?
[01:43:22] <Jymmm> s/RM/RPM/
[01:44:46] <Tom_itx> i used the pendant to get the axis where i wanted it then used the axis screen to save the touch off parameters for G54 and it started the spindle and froze for a few seconds then resumed setting the offset value
[01:45:15] <Tom_itx> so yes.
[01:46:52] <Tom_itx> but it's not a 10k rpm spindle
[01:47:06] <Tom_itx> maybe 5k
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[01:57:19] <Jymmm> you really went there huh?
[01:59:32] <Tom_itx> you think i make shit up?
[02:00:26] <Jymmm> Do you REALLY think correcting the RPM is more significant than a screen saver controlled power tool???
[02:00:47] <Tom_itx> i corrected both
[02:01:15] <Jymmm> and can you manuall turn on/off the spindle from emc?
[02:01:24] <Jymmm> manually
[02:01:29] <Tom_itx> do M codes need to appear on a line by themselves?
[02:01:48] <Tom_itx> or can they be combined or combined with G codes
[02:02:01] <Tom_itx> some controls like them on separate lines
[02:02:17] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: can you manually turn on/off the spindle from emc?
[02:02:28] <Tom_itx> i moved on.
[02:02:29] <Tom_itx> yes
[02:02:48] <Jymmm> are you sure? You've tested manual operation today?
[02:04:13] <Tom_itx> yes Jymmm i tested it today
[02:05:00] <Jymmm> Ok, and you havne't done any kind of custom/tweeked hal pin config or anything like that? Just plain vanilla?
[02:05:44] <Jymmm> Oh, did you reconect that loose wire and check all the other wiring/cabling as well?
[02:06:14] <Jymmm> Spindles should NEVER EVER "just turn on" at semi-random states.
[02:07:21] <Tom_itx> you think?
[02:09:37] <Jymmm> Well, I'm trying to help, but I'm kinda tired of repeating questions without answers.
[02:11:29] <Tom_itx> i wasn't really asking anything
[02:11:41] <Tom_itx> i'm fairly sure it was the screen saver
[02:11:56] <Tom_itx> i've disabled that
[02:12:44] <Tom_itx> if problems persist you will hear about it
[02:13:08] <Tom_itx> so far the i've been able to set up the fixture offsets and run thru the program a few times
[02:13:22] <Tom_itx> i'm adjusting the post right now
[02:14:14] <Tom_itx> my old control didn't support M1 or M0 so i had to add tool changes to get it to pause for material changes. i'm removing those and saving the new post processor files
[02:15:09] <Tom_itx> i'm slowly going back thru everything several times to assure proper function
[02:15:25] <Tom_itx> (i don't like breaking tools)
[02:16:00] <Tom_itx> i do want to add that macro jt uses to home his axis though
[02:21:16] <Tom_itx> multi M codes on a line seem to be acceptable
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[02:32:21] <Tom_itx> Jymmm, thanks for the help. i think things are working fine now
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[02:34:10] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Even if you've narrowed done the issue to the screen saver/power management, that STILL shouldn't cause the spindle to move. You'll need to figure out some way to prevent that, there was an issue years ago with spindle startup at random too. Guess it wasn't fixed 100%.
[02:34:42] <Jymmm> To prevent computer fuckups form interfering with machine control/movement.
[02:37:51] <jdhNC> my router used to do that. When emc started, the spindle would briefly kick on until emc pulled it back low
[02:39:39] <Tom_itx> this was during a fixture offset parameter save
[02:41:17] <jdhNC> that's just whack
[02:42:24] <Tom_itx> ok, my switch fault issue and debounce work at least
[02:42:42] <Tom_itx> that was cause for the rewire
[02:42:45] <jdhNC> using debounce on the servo thread?
[02:42:48] <Tom_itx> seems to have fixed it
[02:42:51] <Tom_itx> yes
[02:43:03] <jdhNC> I just added a buttsplice. That will trigger a rewire soon.
[02:43:04] <Tom_itx> i may shorten the delay some
[02:43:28] <Tom_itx> this stuff i found was good shielded aircraft wire
[02:43:45] <Tom_itx> surplus of course :)
[02:43:46] <jdhNC> http://www.artichoke.org/debounce.jpg
[02:43:49] <jdhNC> that was my crappy z
[02:44:14] <Tom_itx> mine wasn't that wide
[02:44:40] <Tom_itx> well, i dunno what scale i had either
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[03:02:10] <Tom_itx> can you change the default file extension linuxcnc looks at for a gcode file?
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[03:07:35] <jdhNC> you can add a PROGRAM_EXTENSION line to the ini
[03:08:00] <Tom_itx> for gcode files?
[03:08:07] <Tom_itx> hmm what section?
[03:08:11] <Tom_itx> display?
[03:11:47] <jdhNC> filter
[03:12:11] <Tom_itx> yeah i just found it
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[03:17:33] <Tom_itx> thanks, that worked
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[05:43:20] <Loetmichel> mornin'
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[06:50:50] <DJ9DJ> moin
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[13:24:04] <_abc_> Is there a shootout between Mach3 and linuxcnc somewhere on the web?
[13:24:36] <psha[work]> only flamewars
[13:25:27] <skunkworks> _abc_: what questions do you have.. (we can give the linuxcnc perspective..)
[13:25:47] <skunkworks> (actually some on here have used both...)
[13:26:10] <skunkworks> Mmmmm coffee
[13:27:17] <_abc_> well I would like to read a bit about pros and cons for both
[13:27:24] <skunkworks> heh
[13:27:25] <_abc_> I am a linux guy so my choice is clear
[13:27:43] <_abc_> But sometimes I need to argue with others... I need ammunition and references [tm]
[13:27:49] <skunkworks> heh
[13:28:06] <skunkworks> There are some threads on cnczone that argue back and forth..
[13:28:44] <skunkworks> It really comes down to linuxcnc being in realtime control while mach is a buffered system.
[13:29:06] <skunkworks> which for me has more pro's than cons.
[13:32:41] <JT-Shop> I tried mack once but never could get it to work well...
[13:32:59] <_abc_> yes I saw some thread and nothing else
[13:33:37] <_abc_> Is there some good [tm] way to set up a Z compensation spring for a small/low end machine?
[13:33:45] <skunkworks> John - how is the Bridgeport saga gong?
[13:34:20] <JT-Shop> I'm still tweaking the RPC and getting quotes on an isolation transformer
[13:34:24] <jdhNC> abc: springs, counterweights, gas cylinders
[13:34:52] <_abc_> meh I know the theory :)
[13:35:02] <jdhNC> what small mill?
[13:35:07] <_abc_> dyi
[13:35:12] <_abc_> wooden frame etc
[13:35:49] <JT-Shop> I've got the VMC to work with an occasional drive fault
[13:35:54] <jdhNC> ignoring it and saying you don't have to go to the dr, don't have to have insurance, etc does not change the fact that 'they' cost you more money.
[13:36:06] <jdhNC> <wrong channel>
[13:36:21] <_abc_> <good advice>
[13:36:38] <skunkworks> JT-Shop: better - so the plan is to balance the rpc the best you can then run it through and isolation transformer?
[13:36:55] <jdhNC> I have one here with two springs that support about half the head weight. LMS sells a gas strut thing for X2's
[13:37:09] <_abc_> Is anyone here using an air driven spindle?
[13:37:24] <JT-Shop> yes, but I'm still considering a 3 phase generator but even that will need the isolation transformer
[13:37:26] <_abc_> I am tempted. I need high rpm for engraving and relatively shallow routing
[13:37:59] <_abc_> jdhNC: I am more after home/garage/building material shop solutions
[13:38:09] <_abc_> jdhNC: as I said, it is a *very* low end thing
[13:38:40] <JT-Shop> skunkworks: I have the voltage between phases at 245 and each phase is within 1 volt of the others when I run my Samson lathe as another idler motor
[13:38:48] <_abc_> A 60krpm spindle with VFD costs a lot more than a 100krpm air spindle
[13:39:27] <JT-Shop> can your mill cut fast enough to use either spindle?
[13:39:46] <Gigs-> JT-Shop: what is the isolation for?
[13:40:10] <JT-Shop> a Siemens Simodrive 611 which requires one to run
[13:40:18] <Gigs-> that's kind of strange
[13:40:22] <JT-Shop> or run well I should say
[13:40:33] <JT-Shop> not if you ask Siemens...
[13:41:06] <Gigs-> just a plain 1:1? Not a ferroresonant regulating transformer?
[13:41:13] <JT-Shop> the 611 is a high performance drive and is very needy
[13:41:25] <JT-Shop> I don't know what that is
[13:41:46] <Gigs-> ferroresonant transformers are a kind that will take say 90-140v and give you a steady 120
[13:41:49] <Gigs-> just as an example
[13:41:58] <Gigs-> they give you regulation within a range
[13:42:08] <Gigs-> that's more common as a requirement
[13:42:14] <JT-Shop> I see
[13:43:56] <Gigs-> isolation transformers might be used when something has a chassis that must be tied to one leg, or is otherwise a shock hazard. They don't offer a whole lot of filtering or cleanup, but they would attenuate some frequency ranges
[13:44:26] <Gigs-> no more than any normal step up or down would though
[13:44:34] <JT-Shop> Siemens specs a wye with a bonded neutral
[13:44:48] <Gigs-> bonded to chassis ground?
[13:44:59] <JT-Shop> with 21kVA and 3% inductance
[13:45:03] <JT-Shop> yea
[13:45:11] <Gigs-> ok that might be why they want isolation then
[13:45:16] <JT-Shop> everything is bonded to ground
[13:45:19] <Gigs-> you wouldn't want the neutral floating around
[13:45:37] <JT-Shop> something about regen and feed back from the drive as well
[13:46:04] <Gigs-> that's going to be a hell of a boat anchor
[13:46:10] <Gigs-> 21kva 1:1 isolation
[13:46:41] <JT-Shop> dang I got rid of all my boats too
[13:47:01] <TekniQue> 13:38:48 < _abc_> A 60krpm spindle with VFD costs a lot more than a 100krpm air spindle
[13:47:16] <_abc_> TekniQue: yes?
[13:47:23] <TekniQue> but then you probably need a 10hp compressor to run the air spindle
[13:47:34] <_abc_> no, it is a small air spindle
[13:47:44] <_abc_> ~200W equivalent
[13:47:50] <Gigs-> JT-Shop: do you have 3ph service or are you running a rotary converter
[13:47:52] <_abc_> I am into small things
[13:47:56] <TekniQue> ah
[13:48:19] <JT-Shop> RPC is all I have and 3-phase is $20000 away
[13:48:40] <Gigs-> JT-Shop: hmm the rotary phase converter is pretty much an isolation transformer already
[13:48:53] <Gigs-> JT-Shop: I mean electrically it's not much different than one
[13:49:03] <JT-Shop> but no bonded neutral
[13:49:16] <JT-Shop> if I understand it is delta
[13:49:22] <Gigs-> hmm
[13:49:23] <JT-Shop> and the drive wants wye
[13:49:35] <Gigs-> then you will need a delta-wye which could isolate for you
[13:49:58] <Gigs-> that actually probably easier than finding a straight isolation xfmr hehe
[13:50:01] <JT-Shop> yea, that is what I'm getting quotes on
[13:50:29] <Gigs-> since delta to wye is a very common transformer and getting an isolated one probably isn't too hard
[13:52:19] <JT-Shop> skunkworks: I'm also putting some new bearings in the 15hp idler so I hope it is quiet enough to run instead of the 10hp idler
[13:52:55] <Gigs-> JT once you get this monster running you could probably mill a boat hull in one go, at least
[13:53:11] <JT-Shop> Gigs-: the Siemens tech support guy stated "Our equipment doesn't run well on a RPC"
[13:53:40] <Gigs-> JT-Shop: hmmm... well ultimately rotary generators are how they make three phase power at the power plant
[13:54:18] <Gigs-> the only difference with a little one is less consistant frequency due to shaft rpm moving around more
[13:54:28] <Gigs-> if you load it down your frequency drops like with any little generator
[13:54:51] <JT-Shop> the VMC is not very big actually http://www.machineryvalues.com/17-7-X-Axis-12-2-Y-Axis-Bridgeport-Discovery-308-p/147151.htm
[13:55:29] <JT-Shop> I don't have a rotary generator
[13:55:30] <Gigs-> if it's super sensitive to frequency shifts you might put a flywheel on your rotary
[13:55:49] <Gigs-> oh I thought you said you had a rotary phase converter
[13:55:54] <JT-Shop> I've got the RPC voltage very stiff
[13:56:04] <JT-Shop> yea a RPC not a generator
[13:56:10] <Gigs-> rpc is basically a generator run by a single phase motor
[13:56:13] <Gigs-> that's all it is
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[13:56:46] <JT-Shop> I've never seed a RPC with a generator
[13:56:48] <Gigs-> any concerns you'd have with an RPC would apply to a small 3 phase gas fired as well
[13:56:49] <JT-Shop> seen
[13:57:06] <Gigs-> electrically a rotary phase converter is equivalent to a generator and a motor tied together at the shaft
[13:57:30] <Gigs-> they might be in the same housing, but that's the electrical principle
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[13:57:39] <JT-Shop> no, on a RPC the generated leg to ground is double the mains
[13:58:04] <Gigs-> yeah, it can be
[13:58:07] <JT-Shop> it's just a 3 phase motor with a capicator bank to balance the generated leg
[13:58:38] <Gigs-> hmm
[13:58:47] <Gigs-> you must not have one that is equivalent to a motor-generator then
[13:59:25] <JT-Shop> those are rare as hens teeth
[13:59:30] <Gigs-> heh my dad has one
[13:59:39] <Gigs-> it actually has two housings
[13:59:43] <JT-Shop> lucky you
[13:59:55] <JT-Shop> wanna sell it?
[13:59:57] <Gigs-> I assumed those were more common but I just googled and it appears you are right
[14:00:10] <Gigs-> heh no he needs it for his bridgeport clone and his bigger lathe
[14:00:58] <JT-Shop> http://www.practicalmachinist.com/FitchWConverter.pdf
[14:01:12] <Connor> Gigs-: You decide on the Tomarch or Role your own ?
[14:01:27] <Gigs-> connor: the current plan is the tormach
[14:01:48] <Gigs-> I need to get investors on board, so plans might change
[14:02:06] <Connor> Yes, Investors..
[14:02:13] <Connor> What exactly will you be making ?
[14:02:14] <Gigs-> it's going to be harder to justify $12,000 for the bigger tormach vs $3000 in injection molding tooling
[14:02:19] <jdhNC> there's one born every minute!
[14:02:20] <Gigs-> but I think I can sell it
[14:02:42] <Connor> well, the injection molding, you have to pay for the molds...
[14:02:43] <Gigs-> connor: I'll tell you all about it once the provisional patent is filed hehe
[14:03:00] <JT-Shop> Gigs-: are you the plastic pump housing guy?
[14:03:02] <Gigs-> no
[14:04:45] <Connor> How TALL is the part ?
[14:04:51] <Gigs-> 1/4th inch
[14:04:58] <Connor> That all?
[14:05:09] <Connor> You might be better off with a CNC Router then.
[14:05:12] <Gigs-> the only reservation my dad had about the tormach was the ways is apparently filled delric
[14:05:14] <Gigs-> delrin
[14:05:27] <Gigs-> it is an interesting choice on their part
[14:05:53] <syyl_> they use turcite for their ways?
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[14:06:18] <Gigs-> not sure of the brand name, it's some sort of (PFTE I think they said?) filled delrin
[14:06:23] <syyl_> yeah
[14:06:33] <syyl_> that stuff is proven over and over in "real" machines
[14:06:33] <syyl_> :D
[14:06:56] <Gigs-> oh ok... well my dad was a machinist in the 60s mainly so he isn't very up to date
[14:07:06] <Gigs-> makes me feel a little better about it
[14:07:16] <Connor> Anyway. If it's on 1/4" thick.. Then you could do more on a sheet with a router vs the mill.
[14:07:23] <syyl_> when i reworked my lathe
[14:07:33] <syyl_> i also used a special epoxy waycoat
[14:07:43] <syyl_> "moglice"
[14:07:51] <Gigs-> connor at this point it's about more than just this one project/product
[14:07:51] <jdhNC> The sliding dovetailed ways are hand-scraped and designed to withstand high loads and dampen vibrations. The ways have bonded PTFE filled acetyl sliding surfaces, hand scraped by skilled machine builders
[14:08:22] <syyl_> yeah
[14:08:29] <syyl_> one sided scraped or ground
[14:08:35] <Connor> Gigs-: Ah.. More stuff planed..
[14:08:37] <Connor> :)
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[14:09:16] <syyl_> one side hardened and ground, the other side the sliding plastic is great
[14:09:31] <syyl_> lasts very long, great dampening and take very high loads
[14:09:42] <Gigs-> connor: yeah my "invention idea" book has ballooned over the years. I need to start at least prototyping some of them. That's how I'm going to pitch the business... "yeah this one product I think we can sell + whatever next big thing I come up with"
[14:10:50] <Gigs-> ideas are a dime a dozen, actually making something that works is a different matter entirely
[14:11:41] <JT-Shop> that is the truth
[14:12:20] <JT-Shop> I used to like being asked "how long will it take to find a solution to..."
[14:12:52] <Gigs-> hehe yeah
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[14:14:15] <Gigs-> I may hire an IT intern here at work that's fresh out of community college. He's really a blank slate, they didn't teach him much useful to be honest.
[14:14:40] <Gigs-> The thing I love about college interns is that they are eager to solve your problems, after years of it you start to get burned out
[14:17:36] <Gigs-> Oh I invented a new composite material last weekend :P
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[14:18:08] <Gigs-> let me upload pictures, I'll give this one to the world heh
[14:19:09] <Connor> Composite of what.. Peanut butter and Jelly? :)
[14:20:45] <Gigs-> http://www.gigstaggart.com/pics/IMAG0099.jpg
[14:20:57] <Gigs-> I've had these yellow hot glue chips sitting around for years and years
[14:21:20] <Gigs-> it's crushed up bentonite clay (cheap cat litter), with hot glue
[14:21:34] <Gigs-> http://www.gigstaggart.com/pics/IMAG0100.jpg
[14:21:47] <Gigs-> I used it as mortar plugs for my fireworks mortars
[14:22:20] <Gigs-> when it hardens it feels like a very tough rubber, almost like a hockey puck
[14:22:48] <Gigs-> it would be hell to machine with all that clay in it, and the low melting point
[14:23:55] <Gigs-> it's easily castable at least
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[14:32:19] <Jymmm> Glorified 3D Printer
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[14:34:43] <Jymmm> Gummybear Prototyping FTW!!!
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[14:46:56] <JT-Shop> syyl_: do you think I can repair the slightly worn ways on my BP knee mill with "moglice"?
[14:48:04] <Jymmm> In a BP, *I* would say no. But I'm pulling that out of thin air.
[14:49:35] <JT-Shop> http://www.moglice.com/stfscorerepair08.php
[14:51:30] <archivist> do they make large enough pack size for a worn Southbend :)
[14:51:52] <Jymmm> http://www.moglice.com/articles/hydrostaticrepair.pdf
[14:53:14] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: http://www.moglice.com/articles/straight_talk/straighttalk.html
[14:54:44] <syyl_ws> you need to machine out a "pocket"
[14:55:13] <syyl_ws> the moglice needs to be at least 1mm thick
[14:55:49] <syyl_ws> archivist, i think you can get a barrel full of that stuff ;)
[14:56:08] <syyl_ws> as its meant to be used on real big vertical lathes, gantry milling machines etc
[14:56:27] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: http://www.moglice.com/training.php video
[14:57:04] <archivist> syyl_, mine is pretty worn, but one can work around it,
[14:57:49] <syyl_ws> then i would not change anything :D
[14:57:57] <syyl_ws> i did my chinese only becaus it was way of
[14:58:15] <syyl_ws> then i got a bit carried away and overworked the whole machine :D
[14:58:56] <archivist> fun adjusting the cross slide on long work though
[15:00:30] <JT-Shop> all my BP needs is a good scraping by someone that knows what they are doing LOL
[15:00:50] <syyl_ws> sounds like a job for mr. mueller nick ;)
[15:01:41] <JT-Shop> I even have a couple of carbide tipped scrapers
[15:01:55] <syyl_ws> http://www.youtube.com/user/MuellerNick/videos?view=0
[15:02:05] <syyl_ws> he has a fair amount of very good scraping videos
[15:04:10] <Jymmm> syyl_ws: How expensive is moglice?
[15:04:34] <syyl_ws> not cheap ;)
[15:04:47] <syyl_ws> the smallest package with 50gramms costs about 12eur
[15:06:02] <Jymmm> I can't find a data sheet for it
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[15:11:08] <JT-Shop> syyl_ws: good videos he has
[15:11:22] <syyl_ws> you know whats the best?
[15:11:34] <syyl_ws> i have only one hour to drive, when i want to visit him :D
[15:11:42] <JT-Shop> neat
[15:12:03] <Jymmm> Be sure you use gloves and at least a P95 respirator with moglice!
[15:12:21] <syyl_ws> its pretty nasty stuff, yeah
[15:12:41] <Jymmm> syyl_ws: sickenly sweet smelling?
[15:13:15] <syyl_ws> nope
[15:13:46] <syyl_ws> but there are a whole lot of warning sings on the resin and hardener :D
[15:14:21] <rott> hi, i just wanna make sure if i got all connections. I got a mesa 7i76 and there i only have connected the dir-/dir+ and step-/step+ pins for 3 axis to the stepper-drives and the parallel-port cable to the mesa 5i25. Thats all to drive the 3 stepper motors, or?
[15:15:17] <Jymmm> Eeeeesh, Corrosive, 2 Flammability, 3 Health, 0 Reactivity
[15:15:58] <rott> there are so many pins on the 7i76 , that i am unsure
[15:16:02] <syyl_ws> and you shouldnt eat it
[15:16:19] <jdhNC> rott: do you need field power for anything?
[15:16:22] <Jymmm> syyl_ws: Shit, you shouldn't even LOOK at it =)
[15:16:38] <rott> jdhNC: no, i just wanna drive the 3 stepper motors
[15:16:56] <syyl_ws> 0;)
[15:17:00] <JT-Shop> rott: do you have your logic power jumpers set?
[15:17:11] <pcw_home> also you should only use the step + and - if you have differential inputs on you drives
[15:17:34] <Jymmm> Lovely, the base chemical was used as a means of execution during WW2
[15:18:03] <Jymmm> Its also a neurotoxin
[15:18:35] <rott> pcw_home: "differential inputs" what do you mean with that? i dont get it
[15:18:40] <syyl_ws> its a german company :D
[15:18:41] <Jymmm> Now THAT give a new meaning to "Snake Oil" =)
[15:18:46] <syyl_ws> what where you expecting
[15:19:08] <Jymmm> puppys and Daisies
[15:19:28] <pcw_home> If your are connecting step - to ground you can damage the 7I76
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[15:20:26] <Jymmm> syyl_ws: All I can say is that is some nasty shit.
[15:20:47] <syyl_ws> thats why you have to be cautious with it
[15:21:00] <syyl_ws> but there are many chemicals in a shop that are no childsplay
[15:21:13] <Jymmm> syyl_ws: name one
[15:22:04] <syyl_ws> brake cleaner, acetylene, 2 component polyurethane paints and foams
[15:22:09] <syyl_ws> 2 component glues
[15:22:13] <pcw_home> these are differential outputs (relative to ground) that is one is active high and the other is active low. they are intended for use with step drives and step servos the have differential inputs (most step servos do) for single ended input step drives (that have a common ground or VCC pin on their inputs) you just use the + outout
[15:22:26] <syyl_ws> even loctite
[15:22:34] <syyl_ws> superglue!
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[15:22:59] <Jymmm> syyl_ws: The brakefluid I always forget about. locktite superglue not so much.
[15:23:38] <syyl_ws> loctite is known to cause allergic reactions
[15:23:55] <syyl_ws> superglue can be very harmfull when heated
[15:24:00] <rott> i will check my drives
[15:24:04] <Jymmm> syyl_ws: Well, an orange or walnut can do that anymore
[15:24:17] <syyl_ws> acetylene will blow your house away..
[15:24:24] <Gigs-> I think loctite has a weird smell
[15:24:36] <syyl_ws> 2K epoxy glues cause cancer
[15:24:40] <Jymmm> syyl_ws: And if your heating superglue, well that's your own damn fault =)
[15:24:48] <syyl_ws> many people do it
[15:24:50] <syyl_ws> to loosen it
[15:24:54] <Gigs-> syyl superglue puts off some pretty noxious fumes and steam when it gets moist
[15:24:57] <Jymmm> syyl_ws: crossing the street causes cancer.
[15:25:01] <syyl_ws> yeah
[15:25:04] <syyl_ws> be aware ;)
[15:25:08] <Gigs-> water accelerates its setting but the reaction is pretty violent
[15:25:12] <Jymmm> syyl_ws: Oh, I thought you meant in a liquid state, not cured
[15:25:30] <pcw_home> differential input drives will have a STEP+ STEP- and DIR+, DIR- inputs (no COM/GND/V+)
[15:25:48] <syyl_ws> hardening oils produce pretty nasty smoke
[15:25:51] <Gigs-> I was testing some lead ingots for the presence of zinc with muriatic acid the other day and got a whiff ... those fumes are pretty bad
[15:25:57] <Jymmm> syyl_ws: Ever see stuff for kids labeled as "NON TOXIC"?
[15:26:24] <Jymmm> crayons, glues, etc?
[15:26:35] <syyl_ws> yeah, playdo :D
[15:27:43] <jdhNC> pcw: is the above true for 7i47 also? My stepper drivers do not have common + or - so it shouldn't matter?
[15:28:09] <Jymmm> syyl_ws: Well that "NON TOXIC" labels is based upon ASTM #. Here's the thing, what they DONT say is the "NON TOXIC" is based on it's CURED/FINISHED stage. I found this out becasue I came across some paints labeled as non toxic, yet had high levels of ammonia in them.
[15:29:18] <Jymmm> syyl_ws: and that ASTM# reference is by paid subscription only.
[15:29:23] <pcw_home> yes 7I47 is the same it has active high and active low output, if you have single ended drives
[15:29:25] <pcw_home> you just use one (either+ or -)
[15:29:33] <pcw_home> outputs
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[15:33:55] <Jymmm> syyl_ws: Oh Geeeze... Don't ever get that stuff on fire... 1) DO NOT USE WATER TO EXTINGUISH, 2) Produces Nitric oxide which is 3 Health, 3 Reactivity. Again, that is just some really nasty shit.
[15:34:20] <syyl_ws> :D
[15:34:26] <syyl_ws> machine shop of death
[15:34:45] <syyl_ws> i would just keep common sense
[15:34:46] <pcw_home> for example Geckos are single ended, cheap TB65XX multi axis drives are single ended
[15:34:48] <pcw_home> Chinese m542 drives, Parker drives and most step-servos are differential
[15:35:25] <Jymmm> Did I say P95 respirator? screw that, SCUBA!!!
[15:35:27] <jdhNC> these are keling cheap chinese.
[15:35:46] <syyl_ws> hazmat suit, Jymmm!
[15:35:47] <Jymmm> right up jdhNC aley =)
[15:35:52] <pcw_home> so they have step+ and step - inputs?
[15:35:53] <Gigs-> Jymmm: what stuff, play dough?
[15:36:02] <Jymmm> Gigs-: moglice
[15:36:05] <jdhNC> pcw: yes
[15:36:28] <Jymmm> syyl_ws: Hazmat suit with be a smart move at least.
[15:36:36] <Jymmm> s/with/would/
[15:36:47] <pcw_home> so you can drive those differentially
[15:36:50] <Gigs-> heh well most hydrocarbons produce nitric oxide
[15:36:52] <Gigs-> when burned
[15:36:59] <pcw_home> (and get better noise immunity)
[15:37:42] <Jymmm> gigabut this shit is just nasty all around. Make s a $2 hooker look like Mother Teresa
[15:37:49] <Gigs-> I made myself sick with paraffin fumes a couple weeks ago
[15:38:08] <Jymmm> Gigs-: It's called a window fan, use it =)
[15:38:14] <Gigs-> I was using it to flux a lead melt in a large shop with a huge high CFM extraction fan, but I still got sick
[15:38:20] <pcw_home> warning: do not wax your lungs
[15:38:29] <Gigs-> I've since changed over to sawdust as a lead flux instead of wax
[15:38:40] <Jymmm> Gigs-: how much were you messing with?
[15:38:41] <Gigs-> paraffin fumes are pretty nasty, I don't know why people like to burn candles
[15:39:13] <pcw_home> "the indelible smell of a snuffed candle"
[15:39:20] <Gigs-> not a whole lot Jymmm ... my melt was about 10-20 pounds and I was using little 1 cm cubes of wax
[15:39:39] <syyl_ws> parafinn fumes can settle on the longs
[15:39:40] <Jymmm> Gigs-: wax or hotglue chips?
[15:39:42] <syyl_ws> *lungs
[15:39:43] <Gigs-> I started to feel nauseus and I decided to head to the house to lay down, I got three steps outside the door and hurled my guts out
[15:39:47] <syyl_ws> then you have a problem
[15:39:59] <Gigs-> Jymmm: regular canning wax... paraffin
[15:40:28] <Gigs-> there may have been some minor zinc fumes as well
[15:40:32] <Gigs-> but I think it was the wax that did me in
[15:40:33] <Jymmm> Gigs-: Well, there is no such thing as "regular paraffin wax" in 10-20 lb slabs
[15:40:43] <Gigs-> Jymmm: no no the lead melt was 10-20 pounds
[15:40:59] <Gigs-> I was just using small amounts of wax to flux it
[15:41:20] <Jymmm> lead as in the soft metal?
[15:41:26] <Gigs-> yes
[15:41:37] <Gigs-> I was processing wheel weights into ingots at the time
[15:41:41] <Jymmm> so you think that had nothing to do with your headache?
[15:41:47] <Gigs-> the lead? No.
[15:42:09] <Jymmm> at what temperature?
[15:42:27] <Gigs-> runs around 400F for alloys
[15:42:37] <Gigs-> could peak around 500F if I let it get hot
[15:42:42] <Jymmm> Heh, I think I found your problem with paraffin =)
[15:42:42] <Gigs-> way below boiling points
[15:43:06] <Gigs-> well yeah the paraffin vaporizes and boils when you flux with it
[15:43:23] <Gigs-> even with the pretty big extraction fan it got me
[15:43:38] <Jymmm> And no respirator on ?
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[15:43:46] <Gigs-> nah
[15:43:50] <Jymmm> lol
[15:43:57] <Gigs-> Anyway I switched to sawdust now for flux
[15:44:08] <Gigs-> it works just as well if not better and it just smells like a nice BBQ
[15:44:32] <Gigs-> just stay out of the plywood or mdf sawdust and I shouldn't get anything too toxic from that hehe
[15:44:43] <Jymmm> Well, thanks for your nasty endevor. I had been pondering a respiator, now you've just convinced me to get it =)
[15:45:02] <Gigs-> you know what you can get cheap? Finnish gas mask from cheaper than dirt with a NATO can adaptor
[15:45:15] <Gigs-> then you can get surplus nato cans for like 3/$10
[15:45:37] <Valen> (probably out of date ;-P)
[15:45:38] <Gigs-> the whole set up is real cheap and probably just as good as a fancy resp
[15:45:44] <Gigs-> yeah definitely out of date
[15:46:15] <Jymmm> Nah, I think a CURRENT P95 will do
[15:46:21] <Valen> sounds like a bad idea with your health
[15:46:26] <Valen> the carbon in them probably goes off
[15:46:31] <Valen> anyway past my bed time
[15:46:37] <Jymmm> G'Night Valen
[15:46:47] <Gigs-> I'd trust them, they are in plastic shells that are thick and hard to open
[15:46:50] <Valen> I saw a respirator that you put in your mouth like a scuba reg
[15:47:01] <Valen> seemed like a nifty idea
[15:47:08] <Gigs-> but I agree if you are working with something particularly nasty, get the real stuff with current cans
[15:47:10] <Valen> not for sale though so i'll have to make one
[15:47:22] <Jymmm> Valen: you been watch Bond movies?
[15:47:38] <Jymmm> Bond, James Bond
[15:47:39] <Valen> nah its a big huge thing
[15:47:43] <Jymmm> ah
[15:47:46] <Valen> wraps around the back of your head
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[15:48:34] <Jymmm> Gigs-: Not nasty, multiple types of paraffin and other hydrocarbons. Nothing above 200F, but you never know.
[15:49:09] <Gigs-> well yeah given my experience with paraffin smoke I'd say don't mess around there
[15:49:18] <Jymmm> faulty temp control, phone call distraction, etc
[15:49:56] <Gigs-> you know I saw a study once about indoor air quality... apparently people that burn candles in their house have really bad scores on indoor air quality
[15:50:02] <Gigs-> it's almost as bad for you as someone smoking indoors
[15:50:45] <Gigs-> I don't know if beeswax or stearin candles are as bad, but paraffin is some nasty stuff when it burns
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[15:51:17] <Jymmm> Gigs-: I know what sterin is, but sterin candles?
[15:51:32] <Gigs-> yeah they make stearic acid candles... not too common but they do it
[15:51:33] <Jymmm> Gigs-: or do you means candles with sterin in them?
[15:51:38] <Gigs-> yes
[15:51:51] <Jymmm> ah, yeah. used as a hardener
[15:52:04] <Jymmm> or calrifier, I forget atm
[15:52:06] <Gigs-> it would be a little brittle by itself
[15:53:23] <Gigs-> I think they make some that are almost pure stearin
[15:53:31] <Jymmm> Yeah, I dont need a hardener in the least =)
[15:53:43] <Gigs-> http://www.wayfair.com/FANCY-HEAT-Pure-Stearin-Votive-Candles-Set-of-72-F400-LHK1000.html?refid=FR49-LHK1000_7071977&PiID=7071977
[15:53:49] <Gigs-> this one claims "pure"
[15:53:50] <Gigs-> who knows
[15:54:10] <Gigs-> Material: Pure stearin and paraffin wax
[15:54:11] <Gigs-> hah
[15:54:13] <Gigs-> misleading
[15:54:13] <Jymmm> Material: Pure stearin and paraffin wax
[15:54:31] <Gigs-> yeah stearin by itself would be pretty brittle, they'd have trouble shipping it
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[15:55:10] <Jymmm> Now, if I could find a simple way of removing sterin from wax, I'd be in business!!!
[15:55:17] <Gigs-> but hey you could eat the candles if you got hungry
[15:55:30] <mrsun> hmm, delrin i could maybe use to make a antibacklash thingie for the mill
[15:55:41] <mrsun> got a piece laying around =)
[15:55:55] <Jymmm> mrsun: and a brake spring
[15:56:05] <Jymmm> drum brake spring
[15:56:38] <mrsun> drum brake springs are pulling arent they ?
[15:56:42] <mrsun> dont i want a pushing? :)
[15:56:57] <Jymmm> wrong spring, the other ones =)
[15:57:13] <Jymmm> that hold the shoe in the pins in place
[15:57:15] <mrsun> the drum brakes ive disassembeled only have pulling springs =)
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[15:57:43] <mrsun> ahh theres a little one that hooks trrought the shoe into the backplate ?
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[15:57:55] <Jymmm> mrsun: the ones above the pins http://images.wrenchead.com/smartpages/partinfo_resize/DUS/18K564.gif
[15:58:09] <Jymmm> but slightly more heavy duty than those pictured
[15:58:09] <mrsun> never seen those =)
[15:58:24] <mrsun> tho havent dissasembled many drum brakes :P
[15:59:02] <mrsun> maybe can do antibacklash on the other axises like that also
[15:59:12] <Jymmm> mrsun: my bad, valve springs not brakes https://www.sscycle.com/product/secure/images/products/24372.jpg
[15:59:12] <mrsun> tho it will be springy one way :P
[15:59:27] <mrsun> arent valve springs realy tough ? :)
[15:59:42] <Jymmm> mrsun: that's the point =)
[15:59:57] <mrsun> Jymmm, but friction ? :)
[16:00:06] <mrsun> wont it take alot of power from the motors? :)
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[16:00:44] <Jymmm> mrsun: 1) get the correct one, 2) dont have to torque it down =)
[16:01:04] <skunkworks> doesn't everyone have a tub full of random springs taken from dissembling junk?
[16:01:16] <Jymmm> you control the amount of compresson on the spring as you see fit.
[16:01:54] <Jymmm> skunkworks: I have a few
[16:01:58] <mrsun> skunkworks, not me =)
[16:02:08] <Jymmm> mrsun: they also already have flats on each end too
[16:02:19] <mrsun> Jymmm, ahh =)
[16:02:35] <mrsun> got some lawnmower engines i can dissassemble, think those springs are good enough ? :)
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[16:02:40] <mrsun> or is car thingies better? :)
[16:02:55] <mrsun> got a "top" of a car waiting to be melted down also :P
[16:03:12] <mrsun> but im afraid they are to long for my little mill :(
[16:03:15] <Jymmm> mrsun: go with what you have, and if you need bigger start with a Yugo and go up from there =)
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[16:03:24] <Jymmm> lol
[16:03:36] <mrsun> (that is build to far .. dont know how long they are)
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[16:03:41] <Jymmm> mrsun: or a Geo Metro 3 cyl =)
[16:04:53] <Jymmm> Is there any trick to cut SS Foil without leaving a burr on the edges?
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[16:06:34] <mrsun> and do not have a spare screw to thread the nuts with .. hmm (one of them is ordenary metric .. that i have) but the trapezoid i do not have a tap for :/
[16:06:52] <mrsun> i guess i could cut a crude one in the lathe but .. :P
[16:07:24] <skunkworks> valve springs are probably too tough
[16:08:56] <mrsun> on the Z should i mount the antibacklash so it pushes it up or down ?
[16:09:11] <mrsun> the cutting forces i guess would want to push it up ?
[16:09:21] <mrsun> but the weight of the head wants it to go down :P
[16:09:31] <syyl_ws> then support the gravity :D
[16:10:09] <mrsun> so push it down then :P
[16:13:56] <mrsun> but will a spring be able to hold against cutting forces made by a cutter ?
[16:14:08] <mrsun> or will it just keep compressing and decompressing in the cuts
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[16:19:17] <Jymmm> mrsun: The spring has nothign to do with cutting forces, just backlash
[16:20:04] <mrsun> Jymmm, yes but in one direction the cutting wants to push the table against the spring, if there is backlash then the table "can" move the backlash amount compressing the spring right ?
[16:20:37] <Jymmm> the nut itself deals with that.
[16:20:38] <Jymmm> I'm speculating you are using acme
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[16:21:27] <mrsun> Jymmm, trapez but yes same thing different angles =)
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[16:21:37] <Jymmm> and that's why you choose and adjust the spring accordingly =)
[16:21:56] <Jymmm> trapez?
[16:22:07] <mrsun> its just a couple of angles different then acme =)
[16:22:20] <Jymmm> full surface contact?
[16:22:29] <Jymmm> 360 degrees?
[16:23:07] <mrsun> 30 degrees compared to 29 degrees =)
[16:23:10] <mrsun> in the thread angle
[16:23:23] <mrsun> Jymmm, dont realy know .. im not a thread guy =)
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[16:23:59] <Jymmm> I'm not asking about the thread angle, I'm asking does the rod and nut make contact with each other a full 360 degrees around?
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[16:24:03] <mrsun> got a 2mm lead on the screw so has to be metric =)
[16:24:16] <mrsun> Jymmm, yes i guess ?
[16:24:20] <mrsun> dont understand what you mean
[16:24:22] <mrsun> there is a nut
[16:24:31] <Jymmm> got a pic?
[16:24:34] <mrsun> and it contains like 10 threads ... so it should be 360 degrees? :P
[16:24:38] <mrsun> 10 times :P
[16:25:28] <Jymmm> do you already have an anti-backlash nut for this?
[16:25:34] <mrsun> no
[16:26:00] <Jymmm> I'm confused then, do you have any pics of what you have now?
[16:26:03] <mrsun> theres a backlash "compensation" in the nut .. a slit that can be screwed out to take up backlash, but i always get it to tight or not tight enough
[16:26:38] <mrsun> http://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=2149&category=-166688942 <-- thats the screw, http://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=3641 thats how the nuts look like
[16:27:35] <mrsun> and it doesnt follow wear etc ... so has to be adjusted all the time, getting different every time
[16:27:49] <mrsun> while a spring loaded antibacklash would follow the wear in the nut =)
[16:28:22] <Jymmm> This is what I'm talking about http://www.danahermotion.com/website/com/eng/img/product/SNAB5000.jpg
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[16:28:52] <syyl_ws> that doesnt look very "machine tool"
[16:29:02] <syyl_ws> more for handling and positioning
[16:29:04] <mrsun> yeah, thats how i figured but want to add it to the existing nut =)
[16:29:31] <mrsun> existing nut + a spring and a delrin block and a couple of guides for the block so it doesnt twist
[16:29:52] <Jymmm> Unless you have a way of threading it to the leadscrew you have already, I wouldn't know how.
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[16:37:30] <_abc_> http://www.pmtnow.com/end_mills/tools/nano.htm nuts
[16:39:38] <TekniQue> wow
[16:39:43] <TekniQue> how much rpm does that stuff need?
[16:39:48] <TekniQue> 100k?
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[16:54:01] <syyl_ws> saturday i was offered a spindle that runs between 80 and 120k :D
[16:54:13] <syyl_ws> 400bucks with the matching inverter
[16:54:55] <syyl_ws> made by precise
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[17:21:53] <Gigs-> Is there some formula for calculating how big a punch press you need based on the die and material?
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[17:23:00] <archivist> yesum
[17:23:22] <archivist> in a book somewhere here :(
[17:23:22] <Jymmm> http://www.industrialpress.com/ext/StaticPages/Handbook/Index/H28IX/index28.direct.X.htm
[17:23:40] <Jymmm> Pages 3093-3094
[17:23:43] <Jymmm> =)
[17:23:50] <Gigs-> mmm machinery's handbook, now I just need to convert all the units to drams and hogsheads
[17:23:59] <Gigs-> thanks
[17:25:04] <Jymmm> http://books.google.com/books?id=MhsuAQAAIAAJ&pg=PA288&lpg=PA288&dq=punch+press+machinist+handbook&source=bl&ots=C0HrqJ8eSK&sig=NBL5itQdQTUn3oed6TT2zYwqzdk&hl=en&sa=X&ei=2u7MT6XaGOfu0gGosKHnDg&ved=0CJsBEOgBMAk#v=onepage&q&f=false
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[17:36:56] <Gigs-> that stuff really isn't helping too much
[17:37:18] <Jymmm> That machinst handbook should
[17:37:22] <Jymmm> the
[17:37:28] <Gigs-> I'm sure it's in there *somewhere* hehe
[17:37:40] <Jymmm> Pages 3093-3094 =)
[17:38:07] <Gigs-> the one on google is only 1400 pages
[17:38:15] <Gigs-> I have a copy at home, I don't know what edition it is
[17:38:20] <Jymmm> that's NOT the same thing
[17:38:26] <archivist> I could scan a couple of pages from fundamentals of press tool design
[17:39:19] <Gigs-> the one I have at home is from about 5 years ago .. the one on google looks to be the 1914 edition
[17:39:39] <Jymmm> Gigs-: forget the google link, mkay =)
[17:39:56] <Gigs-> well I can just wait until I get home I guess
[17:45:45] <archivist> Gigs-, http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/Lucas/BK/BK2559/
[17:45:52] <Gigs-> thanks
[17:46:39] <archivist> info is circa 1955
[17:47:03] <Gigs-> it'll give me a ballpark figure, which is all I need right now
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[17:47:47] <archivist> add a bit for safety :)
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[17:52:43] <delkin> When I get the warning: "program exceeds machine maximum on axis Z", should I change the machine parameters? Where?
[17:53:22] <archivist> you should make your item fit the machine!
[17:54:19] <roycroft> or get a bigger machine
[17:55:19] <delkin> archivist: What if the current machine dimensions assumed by the software are not the real ones?
[17:56:53] <archivist> why should it assume, did you not tell it
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[17:57:53] <delkin> archivist: Good point. I am reading the .ini file, just now. The dimensions of the machine should be there, right?
[17:58:44] <delkin> In other words: Do I tell the software the dimensions of the machine with the .ini file?
[18:00:27] <archivist> which is right have you checked the numbers and limits, is this a ready setup machine or one you have set up
[18:02:51] <cradek> yes you tell the software the dimensions of the machine in the ini file MIN/MAX_LIMIT
[18:02:57] <delkin> I haven't finished building it (waiting for motors/drivers to come), so I am checking how the software works in a virtualbox
[18:04:55] <delkin> cradek: Cool, I'm on the right track!
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[18:16:35] <Jymmm> djdelorie: Hey ya old bastard, was just talking smack about ya last night =)
[18:16:57] <Jymmm> djdelorie: All of it lies of course =)
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[18:19:24] * djdelorie hates OS upgrades...
[18:19:40] <Jymmm> djdelorie: Try MS-DOS, no upgrades ever!
[18:19:56] <djdelorie> I still have that too, but in this case, it's a Fedora upgrade.
[18:20:08] <Jymmm> djdelorie: Fedora or CentOS ?
[18:20:19] <djdelorie> Usually, around day 3 or 4, I contemplate giving up and restoring from backups.
[18:20:36] <djdelorie> I said "Fedora" so there's a pretty good chance it's not CentOS
[18:21:16] <djdelorie> My servers run RHEL, but that's because I REALLY don't want to have to upgrade those
[18:21:30] <Jymmm> djdelorie: Have you concidered CentOS? Less tweeking involved
[18:21:49] <djdelorie> Why would I replace RHEL with CentOS?
[18:22:11] <Jymmm> replace fedora with centos, not rhes
[18:22:40] <djdelorie> CentOS/RHEL are too far behind Fedora, I need the latest everything
[18:22:42] <Jymmm> Fedora is for cusomizing freaks I've always found.
[18:23:00] <djdelorie> Fedora also has far *more* available packages than RHEL/CentOS
[18:23:23] <Jymmm> If you live on the bleeding edge, you are gonna get cut =)
[18:23:35] <djdelorie> yeah, but I work for Red Hat, so it's my job to get cut...
[18:23:49] <Jymmm> djdelorie: doing what for them?
[18:24:00] <djdelorie> our group does custom embedded development tools
[18:24:07] <Jymmm> ah, lol
[18:24:16] <Jymmm> carry on then =)
[18:24:59] <Jymmm> djdelorie: I didn't know, was aware you worked for RH.
[18:25:04] <Jymmm> wasn't
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[18:25:33] <alex4nder> hey
[18:25:48] <Jymmm> djdelorie: We always go for stability =)
[18:26:06] <Jymmm> djdelorie: and clonability =)
[18:27:18] <JT-Shop> delkin: are you running the splash code in the sim?
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[18:31:25] <skunkworks> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/Sawedlog.JPG
[18:31:54] <skunkworks> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/sawall.JPG
[18:33:02] <skunkworks> new blades are working great. (plus a little better blade alignment) (.043 vs .035)
[18:33:17] <alex4nder> hard core
[18:34:17] <alex4nder> ok, who should I send the patch to for fixing the out-of-control-Z axis problem?
[18:35:20] <skunkworks> the devel list would probably be the best.
[18:35:50] <delkin> JT-Shop: No, I am running a gcode I generated from a gerber file with pcb2gcode
[18:36:03] <alex4nder> skunkworks: alright, as a git format-patch?
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[18:36:11] <alex4nder> a la lkml
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[18:38:09] <delkin> JT-Shop: -> Kicad -> Gerber file -> pcb2gcode -> gcode file -> LinuxCNC (inside a virtualbox)
[18:39:23] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, looking at your plasma.hal file, where does the [HALUI] section get implemented or executed?
[18:39:39] <Tom_itx> i was gonna try to add that to mine now that i got things working
[18:40:53] <Tom_itx> also, does the G0 X0 Y0 Z0 adhere to the homing order of the axis or should i execute Z0 by itself ahead of X and Y?
[18:41:16] <Tom_itx> that probably doesn't matter on your plasma but it would on a mill
[18:41:29] <delkin> When I load the gcode to LinuxCNC the "object" is quite far away from the XYZ reference axis. Is this a problem of the gcode or the .ini ?
[18:41:53] <Tom_itx> you haven't set a work offset
[18:43:00] <skunkworks> alex4nder: yes - git formated patch
[18:44:02] <skunkworks> Tom_itx: g0x0y0z0 will run them all at once
[18:45:36] <Tom_itx> and not adhere to the homing order?
[18:45:37] <Tom_itx> ok
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[18:46:26] <Tom_itx> where does the [HALUI] section get executed? do you add a button or something for it?
[18:46:41] <Tom_itx> in the display.xml
[18:47:14] <delkin> Tom_itx: In which [section] of the .ini file should I place the WORK_OFFSET=... ? Should it be: WORK_OFFSET_X=0.0 WORK_OFFSET_Y=0.0 and so on?
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[18:47:40] <Tom_itx> use touch off in the axis screen
[18:47:57] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx: the pyvcp buttons execute the mdi commands
[18:48:50] <JT-Shop> delkin: http://gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/tutorial/index.html
[18:49:37] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx: if you need to Z up first you might want to set and use G28
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[18:51:35] <JT-Shop> delkin: where are your XYZ zero positions when you home and where is the XYZ zero in your cam file?
[18:51:47] <Tom_itx> i wanted to take it to the G54 zero offset not home
[18:53:26] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx: just enter into the [HALUI] section the same as you would do in the MDI window
[18:53:41] <Tom_itx> will it execute line at a time?
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[18:54:03] <JT-Shop> it will only execute one line but that can be a subroutine iirc
[18:54:06] <mrsun> gah stuffs just keeps going wrong, its an ordenary M10x1.5 thread on the leadscrew ... only its left handed ... thanks for that one, no tap ... "i got an idea, i can make a crude tap for making threads in delrin ... *starts fixing up the lathe*" well ... aparently i dont have the freakin 40 tooth gear that is required for 1.5 thread ....
[18:54:29] <Tom_itx> oh ok
[18:54:55] * JT-Shop goes to play in the dirt
[18:55:07] <Tom_itx> dig a nice deep hole
[19:00:29] <mrsun> to cut a 40 tooth gear, i could use a 80 tooth gear and move two gears each time right? :)
[19:00:54] <archivist> sure
[19:01:07] <archivist> two teeth you mean
[19:01:16] <mrsun> yeye :P
[19:01:31] <mrsun> how to measure modulo on the gears ?
[19:01:59] <archivist> measure od and calculate
[19:02:21] <mrsun> hmm ok
[19:02:31] <mrsun> just OD / number of teeth ? :)
[19:02:37] <archivist> or cheat and look in some tables
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[19:04:31] <archivist> gimme the OD and tooth count for a gear
[19:04:43] <mrsun> have to go and measure then
[19:05:44] <Gigs-> you are going to cut a gear by hand on the lathe? That's going to take forever.
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[19:06:53] <archivist> doesnt take too long once set up to mill
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[19:09:40] <mrsun> archivist, 80.9 OD 52 teeth i get it to
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[19:11:06] <mrsun> i get it to 1.55 so should be 1.5? :)
[19:11:10] <Tom_itx> Gigs-, did you decide on a machine yet?
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[19:11:52] <Gigs-> not completely, but leaning toward the tormach 1100
[19:12:01] <Tom_itx> it looked nice to me
[19:12:04] <archivist> may be slightly under sized 16dp or really 51 teeth
[19:12:06] <Tom_itx> $$ but nice
[19:12:12] <alex4nder> Gigs-: nice machine, do you need the size?
[19:12:17] <mrsun> archivist, says 52 on it
[19:12:29] <Gigs-> alex4nder: not immediately
[19:12:35] <alex4nder> Gigs-: have you run a mill before?
[19:12:39] <Gigs-> only manual
[19:12:42] <alex4nder> hmm
[19:12:43] <Tom_itx> he want's braggin rights
[19:12:49] <Gigs-> well I take that back, I used a little CNC in high school
[19:12:54] <Gigs-> writing g code or something like it directly
[19:12:59] <alex4nder> I'm glad I didn't buy the Tormach first
[19:13:01] <archivist> mrsun, 81mm for 52 tooth mod 1.5
[19:13:06] <alex4nder> I wanted one, but I bought a smaller machine instead.
[19:13:27] <mrsun> archivist, can be that then, error in mesurement in that case =)
[19:13:32] <Tom_itx> i would find a use for any size machine you gave me
[19:13:32] <delkin> JT-Shop: When I home, the spindle moves to the blue G54 point (that I have no idea what it is) at x=-0.0090, y=5.6505, z=-0.3682. For the second part of your question (not sure if this is what you mean) I moved the spindle to the place I consider the XYZ zero for the gcode model which is: x=1.5, y=-2.47, z=-0.37.
[19:13:48] <archivist> mrsun, close enough
[19:13:52] <Gigs-> alex4nder: did you buy a tormach?
[19:13:58] <alex4nder> Gigs-: I ended up buying a Taig
[19:14:08] <alex4nder> and did all the CNC conversion myself
[19:14:26] <skunkworks> that is quite a bit smaller :)
[19:14:29] <alex4nder> yup
[19:14:30] <Tom_itx> oh JT-Shop, i got the drivers tuned yesterday too. that was pretty simple
[19:14:52] <alex4nder> the Taig has bread-loaf work area
[19:14:56] <alex4nder> +a
[19:14:57] <Tom_itx> rewired them for parallel and bumped tha amps up a bit then set the drivers
[19:15:03] <Tom_itx> the*
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[19:15:07] <archivist> mrsun, Im cheating and using the stock gear tables in the HPC catalogue
[19:15:28] <mrsun> but ... gears are kind strangley formed, can i cut gears that has those angles etc on it with an envolute gear cutter ?
[19:15:33] <mrsun> or do i need a hob ?
[19:15:50] <mrsun> as the sides of the teeth arent straight, they got two different angles
[19:16:24] <archivist> mrsun, they are worn they are supposed to be involute
[19:16:47] <archivist> look at the unworn side
[19:16:59] <mrsun> http://www.google.se/imgres?um=1&hl=sv&client=ubuntu&channel=cs&biw=1358&bih=592&tbm=isch&tbnid=2nZ1kUWkEYv6yM:&imgrefurl=http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%25D0%25A4%25D0%25B0%25D0%25B9%25D0%25BB:Terms_involute_gears.PNG&docid=WrIM8fjRb6HAMM&imgurl=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a9/Terms_involute_gears.PNG&w=762&h=731&ei=kgnNT7m-IoOI4gSf-uEt&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=608&vpy=261&dur=4743&hovh=220&hovw=229&tx=138
[19:16:59] <mrsun> &ty=131&sig=113354537800688239169&page=1&tbnh=122&tbnw=127&start=0&ndsp=22&ved=1t:429,r:11,s:0,i:90 that is what i mean ... is that how involute gears end up ? :)
[19:17:15] <mrsun> doh
[19:17:16] <mrsun> double line ...
[19:17:37] <mrsun> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2c/Terms_involute_gear_engagement.PNG
[19:17:38] <mrsun> there :P
[19:18:09] <_abc_> http://www.cad2gcode.com/cncprojects/id16.html nice
[19:18:37] <archivist> mrsun, ignore the root curve, that is for strength
[19:19:13] <mrsun> more tools to buy .... when will it end! :P
[19:20:11] <archivist> more profile pics http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=gear+mesh
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[19:20:49] <mrsun> ough, how to know what degrees they are?! :/
[19:21:16] <archivist> that is the angle at the pcd
[19:21:27] <mrsun> pcd ?
[19:21:38] <archivist> pitch circle diameter
[19:21:51] <archivist> the line of contact
[19:22:05] <mrsun> but how the heck do i measure that =)
[19:22:08] <mrsun> on the gears
[19:22:45] <archivist> magnifier and a protractor
[19:24:06] <archivist> or, another toy to buy, a measuring microscope with angle measuring in the light path :)
[19:24:51] <mrsun> :P
[19:25:04] <mrsun> gah this is hard to know everything =)
[19:25:13] <mrsun> cant order any cutters before i know they will fit either :/
[19:26:53] <archivist> most metric are 20 degrees
[19:28:11] <archivist> see if you can get non 20 deg mod 1.5 anyway
[19:28:18] <mrsun> this lathe is a bit of a conundron ... leadscrew is 3/4" (19.05mm) bolts etc on it is metric ....
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[19:35:55] <mrsun> gonna buy a big manual mill as soon as i can afford ... i need it :P
[19:41:36] <skunkworks> interesting use of halstreamer
[19:41:38] <skunkworks> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1g0IO6JZxmA
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[19:43:42] <archivist> mrsun, if you were making a lot of gears by milling then a big old horizontal will chew easily on the work
[19:44:20] <mrsun> i was thinking something like a bridgeport etc =)
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[19:44:32] <mrsun> sometimes gears are missing .. like in this case .. got one missing and one broken gear
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[19:45:38] <archivist> you could just buy a couple of stock 1.5mod gears
[19:45:41] <mrsun> or sajo i guess is easier to get in sweden =)
[19:48:18] <archivist> http://www.hpcgears.com/
[19:48:58] <archivist> probably cost the same or less as buying cutters
[19:49:17] <mrsun> ye ofc it does, but then i cant cut other gears ;P
[19:50:27] <mrsun> but they were quite expensive tehre
[19:50:45] <mrsun> £16 for 40 tooth
[19:50:58] <archivist> one 1.5mod hob covers all sizes, gear milling cutters only cover a range
[19:51:43] <archivist> but then you need to gear your mill spindle to the rotary :)
[19:52:48] <mrsun> mm =)
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[19:53:16] <mrsun> a set of envolute gears from china costs $85 :P
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[19:57:27] <mrsun> £11 from bearingboys for a gear
[19:57:46] <mrsun> 30mm wide so would have to cut the "hub" off it tho
[19:58:14] <archivist> and make the keyway
[19:58:22] <mrsun> true
[19:58:28] <mrsun> and that i do not have tools for either :P
[19:58:38] <roycroft> you could make a hob and make the gear yourself
[19:58:46] <archivist> keyway broaches cost!
[19:58:49] <roycroft> and you could make a keyway with a milling machine and a little filing
[19:59:09] <mrsun> true, even if i do them myself i need to make a keyway anyways :P
[19:59:35] <roycroft> depending on the size of the keyways needed, enco usually have good prices on the smaller broach sets
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[20:00:44] <mrsun> inch ... everything is inch
[20:00:47] <mrsun> hurts my eyes
[20:01:32] <roycroft> i'm imperially-challenged, for the most part, even though i live in the usa
[20:01:51] <roycroft> but i machine in imperial units becuse si tooling costs about 4x as much as imperial tooling here
[20:02:42] <roycroft> an $8 1/2" endmill costs $30 in 12mm, all other variables being equal
[20:02:51] <mrsun> 1252 usd for broaches from 2 - 14mm
[20:03:27] <roycroft> but you can put your gear in the mill vise, and drill out the keyway slot to very close to finish size
[20:03:40] <mrsun> and i would need a press :P
[20:03:41] <roycroft> then use a small triangle file to square up the corners
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[20:03:53] <roycroft> arbor presses are cheap
[20:04:25] <roycroft> but you could carefully use a small ball pein hammer with a keyway broach if necessary
[20:04:48] * roycroft would strongly recommend an arbor press
[20:04:55] <mrsun> ough, with that expensive tooling i would not do it :P
[20:05:20] <roycroft> but seriously, it's not hard to cut the slot with drills and a file
[20:05:29] <roycroft> if you're only doing one-off stuf
[20:05:45] <roycroft> if you're doing a dozen, get a keyway broach set
[20:06:09] <mrsun> yeah
[20:06:42] <roycroft> i know you prefer si, but imported imperial broach sets are really quite affordable:
[20:06:45] <roycroft> http://tinyurl.com/7hvzp66
[20:07:14] <roycroft> and maybe you require si, not prefer it
[20:07:24] <mrsun> roycroft, well if they key isnt made for imperial ... then its not made for imperial :P
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[20:32:15] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[20:32:27] <Jymmm> gn9
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[21:13:42] <Tom_itx> so what are the steps to connect the [HALUI] MDI_COMMAND to a button on the axis screen?
[21:14:31] <Tom_itx> then as JT-Shop suggested, how do i write a subroutine for that section and attach it there
[21:14:45] <Tom_itx> since i want the G0 broken up
[21:14:57] <Tom_itx> G0 Z0
[21:15:04] <Tom_itx> G0 Y0 X0
[21:15:21] <Tom_itx> to retract the spindle so the vise doesn't smack it
[21:15:25] <cpresser> Tom_itx: my MDI-Commands actually trigger a sub call
[21:15:42] <cpresser> basically the setup you want.. let me boot up the cnc, ill show you my config
[21:16:00] <cpresser> ~basically i have the setup (i suppose) you want
[21:16:11] <Tom_itx> just a simple shortcut to send the axis to G54 zero
[21:16:18] <Tom_itx> or active offset
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[21:18:25] <cpresser> http://nopaste.info/ce077e5fbc.html
[21:19:06] <cpresser> http://nopaste.info/5c7e7a8b1c.html
[21:19:43] <atom1> i would dump the G53 wouldn't I/
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[21:19:44] <atom1> ?
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[21:19:56] <atom1> not sure what that one is...
[21:20:05] <cpresser> it sets 'machine coordinates'
[21:20:19] <atom1> yeah
[21:20:27] <atom1> absolute home?
[21:20:33] <cpresser> "G53 G0 X0 Y0 Z0" moves to the home position. that is actually my intention :)
[21:21:12] <atom1> i can figure that part out probably
[21:21:29] <atom1> i don't wanna send it 'home' rather to the current zero
[21:21:44] <atom1> i'll look it over after i feed
[21:21:45] <atom1> thanks
[21:22:36] <atom1> is there a particular name to call the sub?
[21:22:49] <atom1> the file...
[21:22:56] <Jymmm> U-571
[21:23:06] <cpresser> the filename must match the sub-name
[21:23:17] <cpresser> and the file shall be saved in the ngc-files directory
[21:23:21] <atom1> ok
[21:23:50] <Jymmm> cpresser: and vars global when calling a sub?
[21:23:53] <Jymmm> are
[21:24:16] <atom1> is there a certain file extension for subroutines?
[21:24:34] <cpresser> Jymmm: actually, i dont know. but i would think they are. since variables in emc2 are 'registers'
[21:24:45] <Jymmm> cpresser: k
[21:24:54] <Jymmm> cpresser: ty
[21:25:38] <cpresser> Jymmm: btw: did the soapstone-idea work out?
[21:27:09] <Jymmm> cpresser: Sorta. Yes it would work, but this issue (I'm literally having at this very moment) is the ability to electrically isolate one end as well as provide some kind of "spring" tension.
[21:27:52] <Jymmm> cpresser: I also have some teflon fabric and going to order some Kapton tape too.
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[21:29:09] <Jymmm> cpresser: the soapstone is so brittle, I can't tap or fasten anything to it.
[21:29:30] <cpresser> soapstone is no construction material :/
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[21:30:02] <Jymmm> cpresser: It will serve it's high heat spacer needs, no problem =) TY btw
[21:30:08] <cpresser> is would only work as insulator with external force applied to hold it in place/shape
[21:30:16] <atom1> good for marking steel though
[21:30:49] <Jymmm> cpresser: Yeah, I actually have a 'C Channel' of aluminum for that
[21:31:33] <Jymmm> how well does jbwed hold up over time once tapped?
[21:31:52] <Jymmm> jbweld
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[21:32:54] <Jymmm> does it like to crack when force is applied?
[21:33:24] <Jymmm> or when a screw is torqued too much?
[21:33:27] <atom1> like any 'patch' it's not as strong as the base material
[21:34:14] <Jymmm> atom1: I'm not thinking of using it as a "patch" as much as an electric insulator
[21:34:38] <cpresser> thats a 2k epoxid system, right?
[21:34:52] <Jymmm> 2 part epoxy, yes.
[21:35:16] <Jymmm> it can handle 500F or there abouts.
[21:35:24] <cpresser> the german website says 300¬įC max. thats not that much
[21:36:23] <Jymmm> cpresser: That's FAR more than I should need, just as long as it can deal with 260C for hours
[21:36:34] <atom1> does it give any 'sheer strength' data?
[21:36:44] <atom1> shear*
[21:37:15] <cpresser> 278 kg/cm^2
[21:37:44] <atom1> how much stress is your bolt going to put on it?
[21:37:49] <Jymmm> http://jbweld.net/products/jbweld.php
[21:38:09] <Jymmm> MAYBE 30 ft lbs, if that
[21:38:50] * cpresser needs an irc-bot which translates imperial to metric^^
[21:39:26] <Jymmm> http://www.thetoolhut.com/Torque-Conversion-English-Metric.html
[21:39:32] <atom1> that's about average torque for a 5/16 bolt i think
[21:39:57] <atom1> maybe 3/8
[21:40:27] <alex4nder> Jymmm: I would be impressed if it could take 30 lb/ft.
[21:40:36] <atom1> me too
[21:41:26] <alex4nder> Jymmm: are you just trying to get threads inside something?
[21:41:30] <Jymmm> the 30 ft lb is probably the extreme high end.
[21:41:38] <atom1> the elevated temp probably won't help that either
[21:41:44] <Jymmm> atom1: yeah
[21:41:49] <alex4nder> Jymmm: like an insert?
[21:42:00] <Jymmm> alex4nder: electriical insulator
[21:42:16] <Jymmm> 500F electrical insulator
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[21:42:36] <alex4nder> but you're threading soapstone?
[21:42:41] <Jymmm> no
[21:42:44] <alex4nder> ok
[21:42:48] <alex4nder> I don't understand your application
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[21:43:12] <Jymmm> soapstone is just a spacer, jbweld could do the same thing, woould just have to fabricate it a bit more
[21:43:21] <Jymmm> I believe it could do it =)
[21:43:40] <Jymmm> soapstone is being used as a replaceable anvil
[21:44:02] <cpresser> Jymmm: what exactly are you building? doomsday machine?
[21:44:22] <Jymmm> cpresser: heat sealer
[21:44:41] <Jymmm> (basically)
[21:44:41] <cpresser> for plastic bags?
[21:44:56] <Jymmm> heh, I wish, that would be easy =)
[21:45:37] <alex4nder> Jymmm: well you could do what I do: JB weld a nut/insert into place, and depend on the nut to hold the thread, but use the insulating jb weld to hold the nut in place
[21:47:32] <Jymmm> alex4nder: that's an idea instead of using jbweld as the heatsink so to speak
[21:47:50] <Jymmm> brassinsert could easily handle 1000F
[21:48:13] <cpresser> another option so get a thread inside a hard-to-thread(soft) material is the usage of helicoils
[21:48:19] <alex4nder> yup
[21:48:57] <Jymmm> cpresser: yeah, jbweld a helicoil in place
[21:49:28] <Gigs-> furnace cement would be a better adhesive
[21:49:42] <Jymmm> Gigs-: I have some actually, bought it last week
[21:49:58] <Jymmm> Gigs-: it dont like water thats for sure
[21:50:04] <Gigs-> I have made a lining for my furnace forge with furnace cement mixed with perlite
[21:50:06] <Jymmm> even after cured
[21:50:10] <Gigs-> it can withstand very high temperatures
[21:50:32] <Jymmm> Gigs-: yeas, 2000F, but no water can get into it
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[21:50:58] <Gigs-> mine seems to be water proof
[21:51:14] <Jymmm> ah
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[21:51:44] <Jymmm> Well, I have see test pieces that I haven't cured yet. I'll test with water after cured
[21:51:46] <Gigs-> what sort do you have? Mine was black and tarry
[21:51:52] <Jymmm> yep
[21:52:16] <Jymmm> had to stir like crazy
[21:52:19] <Gigs-> are you saying yours was water soluable?
[21:52:36] <Jymmm> That's what the tub says
[21:52:49] <Gigs-> hrm... I forget what solvent I used
[21:52:52] <Gigs-> it wasn't water though
[21:52:57] <Jymmm> lots of warnings about it too.
[21:53:17] <Jymmm> Mine can adhere rock to metal too, that might be the differnce
[21:53:34] <Jymmm> it's not stove-pipe sealant.
[21:54:33] <Gigs-> I'm trying to remember, it was a long time ago
[21:54:47] <Gigs-> I may have used isopropyl alcohol which I guess has some water
[21:55:00] <Jymmm> Ah, I can put a piece of heavy spring steel behind the soapstone to take up tension on the heating element!!!
[21:55:10] <Jymmm> hawt damn!
[21:56:12] <Jymmm> You guys wouldn't happen to know a "replease agent" for jb-weld if I wanted to mold it would ya?
[21:56:18] <Jymmm> release agent
[21:56:56] <alex4nder> the normal stuff should work
[21:57:42] <Jymmm> alex4nder: vaseline and acetone? That works for silicone.
[21:58:18] <alex4nder> a nice coating of wax would do the trick
[21:58:43] <Jymmm> ok, I got that.
[22:00:48] <Jymmm> thanks for the ideas folks!
[22:01:31] <alex4nder> np
[22:01:58] <cpresser> Jymmm: most 2k-systems cant be dissolved.
[22:03:04] <Jymmm> cpresser: That works for me, it's just the constant heat that it can handle may be my issue (as oppose to furnance cement)
[22:03:34] <Jymmm> But jbweld is a simle, cheap and plentiful solution
[22:04:11] <Jymmm> even if it had to be replaced weekly.
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[22:05:18] <Jymmm> Oh, any off-the-shelf sources for teflon or fiberglass coated hookup wire by chance?
[22:05:32] <Jymmm> I only need a few feet of it
[22:06:07] <atom1> i dunno what this coating it, but it's damn good wire
[22:06:14] <atom1> surplus aircraft wire
[22:06:15] <cpresser> kill a electric iron :)
[22:06:36] <atom1> oh, you can get the fiberglass tubing from your local motor rewinder
[22:06:37] <Jymmm> cpresser: Ok, thrift store it is!
[22:06:44] <atom1> i got some of that for my toaster oven there
[22:07:12] <Jymmm> atom1: really? i motor rewinder? Like a alternator rebuilder?
[22:07:29] <cpresser> basically a junkyard may be a good source for coatet wire
[22:07:35] <atom1> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/toaster_oven/control_mounted1.jpg
[22:07:41] <atom1> the white tubing
[22:08:14] <Jymmm> ah, well i need the wire iteself to be nickle plated copper to handle the heat too =)
[22:08:35] <Jymmm> when I asked for smapels, they only gave me 3"
[22:08:42] <atom1> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/emc/small_probe7_small.jpg
[22:08:47] <Jymmm> bbiab
[22:08:55] <atom1> that is nickel plated copper i think but i don't know what the jacket is
[22:09:22] <atom1> i've got 2 and 3 conductor shielded
[22:09:29] <atom1> braided shield
[22:10:55] <atom1> he's got the bulk of a 1000 or 5000ft reel surplus
[22:11:43] <atom1> it's not teflon that i can tell
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[22:30:02] <atom1> Jymmm, what's the wire for?
[22:30:07] <atom1> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/cnc/psu/wire.jpg
[22:30:22] <atom1> is a better pic of what it is
[22:30:28] <atom1> if it's something you can use
[22:30:43] <atom1> the white is 3 cond
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[22:42:41] <Jymmm> atom1: No rush or anything, but if you can take a propane torch to it and it not melt/char, then it's high temp furnace wire.
[22:43:21] <Jymmm> outdoors please
[22:44:03] <Jymmm> also, look at the color of the flame to see if it changes color.
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[22:45:55] <Jymmm> atom1: No biggy though, I'll just hit a thrift store and salvage some from a crock pot, coffee maker, or some such thing =)
[22:46:45] * Tom_itx sets his monitor on fire
[22:47:01] * Jymmm grabs the marshmellows
[22:47:30] <Tom_itx> it's not teflon
[22:47:38] <Tom_itx> but i don't know what it is for sure
[22:47:44] <Jymmm> green flame?
[22:47:56] <Tom_itx> i'll go burn the garage down.. hang on
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[22:48:21] <Jymmm> heh, you have to actually use a torch not just an open flames for the color test
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[22:51:17] <Jymmm> motor, heater, pump all for FREE http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/zip/3056947393.html
[22:51:18] <Tom_itx> normal orange
[22:51:43] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: No idea then, but thanks for chekcing =)
[22:51:58] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: probably thermostat hookup wire
[22:52:15] <Jymmm> but I've never seen shielding on that beofre.
[22:52:27] <Tom_itx> no, it's aircraft of some type
[22:52:33] <Jymmm> ah, ok.
[22:52:36] <Tom_itx> not sure what
[22:52:55] <Tom_itx> good for limit switches
[22:53:01] <Jymmm> heh
[22:53:14] <Tom_itx> it fixed the problem
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[22:55:57] <Tom_itx> cpresser, you create buttons in the display.xml for those nets then right?
[22:56:06] <Tom_itx> or some such control
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[23:03:21] <andypugh> Did rott get sorted out?
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[23:25:35] <atom1> ok i have the button but having a bit of trouble connecting it to the signal
[23:26:06] <JT-Shop> atom1: trying to do the halui thing?
[23:26:21] <atom1> yes
[23:26:27] <atom1> i've got the subroutine
[23:26:33] <atom1> and the halui line
[23:26:40] <atom1> and the button in the display.xml
[23:26:42] <JT-Shop> does it work from the MDI window
[23:26:50] <atom1> umm
[23:26:55] <atom1> how do i execute it?
[23:27:05] <JT-Shop> call
[23:27:32] <atom1> i'll have to bring the machine online. hang on
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[23:27:36] <JT-Shop> o<myfile> call o123 call
[23:27:59] <Jymmm> "Hello Operator? What's the number for 9-1-1 ? "
[23:28:29] <JT-Shop> what's your password? it's ******
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[23:31:27] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: add 8186 more and you'll be getting closer =)
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[23:34:37] <atom1> unexpected char after o word
[23:37:13] <JT-Shop> what did you type?
[23:38:18] <atom1> o<work_zero.ngc> call work_zero
[23:38:33] <JT-Shop> no period or extension http://linuxcnc.org/docview/html/gcode/o-code.html#_calling_files
[23:38:51] <JT-Shop> o<work_zero>
[23:38:53] <atom1> same error
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[23:39:08] <JT-Shop> o<work_zero> call
[23:39:25] <JT-Shop> where is the file?
[23:39:30] <atom1> that did it
[23:39:39] <atom1> it's where it should be
[23:39:43] <atom1> in the ncfile directory
[23:39:47] <JT-Shop> ok
[23:40:02] <atom1> now to hook to the button
[23:40:10] <JT-Shop> and in your ini right after [HALUI] you have what?
[23:40:28] <atom1> MDI_COMMAND = O<work_zero> call
[23:40:40] <JT-Shop> ok
[23:40:57] <atom1> and the button is in the display.xml file
[23:41:34] <JT-Shop> interesting the pin is not in the man page
[23:41:50] <JT-Shop> open up show hal configuration and find the pin name
[23:41:56] <atom1> here's what i have:
[23:42:12] <atom1> net but-work-zero pyvcp.b-work-zero => halui.mdi-command-00
[23:42:20] <atom1> but it was from someone else's example
[23:42:28] <JT-Shop> that looks right
[23:42:31] <atom1> so it's likely not named right or something
[23:42:49] <JT-Shop> does the config load or error out?
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[23:42:51] <atom1> <halpin>"but-work-zero"</halpin>
[23:42:56] <atom1> is the display.xml
[23:43:02] <atom1> for the button
[23:43:18] <JT-Shop> open show hal configuration and see what the pin names are
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[23:44:14] <JT-Shop> ok it is in the manual :=) http://linuxcnc.org/docview/html/gui/halui.html
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[23:44:57] <r00t4rd3d> can 22 awg handle 24v/15amps?
[23:45:08] <atom1> i doubt it
[23:45:11] <JT-Shop> halui will try to send the MDI command defined in the ini. This will not always succeed, depending on the operating mode LinuxCNC is in (e.g. while in AUTO halui canít successfully send MDI commands). If the command succeeds then it will place LinuxCNC in the MDI mode and then back to Manual mode.
[23:45:15] <Jymmm> 18ga should
[23:45:30] <JT-Shop> that's only 360 watts
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[23:46:25] <r00t4rd3d> i just cut a light cord :D
[23:46:27] <JT-Shop> but I would want something a bit bigger myself
[23:46:30] <atom1> do i need to use the POSTGUI_HALFILE file?
[23:46:36] <atom1> it's empty
[23:46:40] <atom1> the file that is
[23:46:54] <Jymmm> r00t4rd3d: http://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm
[23:46:56] <JT-Shop> that is for things you want to load after the GUI loads
[23:46:57] <atom1> i didn't use it for a demo led i made
[23:47:03] <atom1> ok
[23:47:17] <atom1> but the led wasn't wired to anything iirc
[23:47:23] <JT-Shop> for example pyvcp pins must be in the postgui hal file
[23:47:37] <JT-Shop> must be connected in
[23:47:43] <atom1> like this one?
[23:47:51] <JT-Shop> aye
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[23:48:06] <atom1> ok i'll move it from the main .hal
[23:48:37] <JT-Shop> gene77: hi
[23:48:37] <gene77> Hey eveybody!
[23:48:49] <Jymmm> Whenever JT-Shop says 'aye', I keep imaging a redheaded guy in a kilt smoking a pipe
[23:49:02] <JT-Shop> naw I don't like a pipe
[23:49:09] <JT-Shop> the rest fits
[23:49:09] <Jymmm> lol
[23:49:14] <gene77> chuckle
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[23:49:37] <JT-Shop> gene77: you get your encoder disk to work?
[23:49:48] <atom1> there must be something wrong with that net line
[23:49:55] <atom1> it errors when i load it
[23:50:04] <atom1> comment it out and it runs
[23:50:13] <gene77> my metric foo is on strike, what metric screw is exactly .150" in diameter, and yes, quite well John
[23:50:28] <JT-Shop> run the config and open show hal configuration and verify the pin names
[23:50:48] <atom1> it won't be there if it errors
[23:50:55] <atom1> the net
[23:51:12] <JT-Shop> gene77: I'd guess a M4 screw if your measuring the threads
[23:51:23] <JT-Shop> no but the pin names will be there
[23:51:41] <Jymmm> 3.81mm
[23:51:57] <JT-Shop> the threads will be a bit under 4mm
[23:52:00] <atom1> what section under halui?
[23:52:11] <JT-Shop> atom1: ?
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[23:52:19] <JT-Shop> pins?
[23:52:25] <atom1> yes
[23:52:31] <atom1> i looked under halui
[23:52:35] <atom1> but what sub section
[23:52:37] <JT-Shop> look for halui.mdi-command-nn
[23:52:56] <gene77> measuring the screw, its part of a little pin the locks the handle in place in a fawncy motorcycle hydralic jack. I've managed to get the threads of the broken screw out of a BIG thumb nut
[23:53:07] <atom1> it's in pyvcp
[23:53:15] <atom1> but-work-zero
[23:53:18] <JT-Shop> gene77: try a M4 x 0.7
[23:53:38] <JT-Shop> ok, the button is there
[23:53:44] <JT-Shop> find the mdi command
[23:53:46] <gene77> and was wondering what pitch of thread to put on the end of the pin to screw back into it. 4MM x 1.75 I think it is then,
[23:54:00] <atom1> just a sec i may have figured it out
[23:54:03] <JT-Shop> 4 x 0.7
[23:54:10] <JT-Shop> is standard
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[23:54:23] <gene77> m4x.7, yeah I was thinking really course I guess :(
[23:54:29] <JT-Shop> lol
[23:54:45] <atom1> no but at least it runs now
[23:54:51] <atom1> the button still doesn't work
[23:54:54] <gene77> That I ought to be able to teach g76.
[23:55:02] <atom1> aarg
[23:55:23] <JT-Shop> atom1: are you out of e-stop and power is on and your not in auto etc
[23:55:32] <JT-Shop> gene77: yes
[23:55:32] <atom1> ok it works now
[23:55:42] <atom1> wrong name for the net
[23:55:44] <JT-Shop> YEA!
[23:55:48] <atom1> thanks
[23:55:52] <JT-Shop> np
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[23:56:13] <JT-Shop> gene77: are you using ngcgui on your lathe?
[23:56:13] <atom1> so you can run any comand from a button
[23:56:15] <gene77> Thanks John. Now I better go see what the better half wants for dinner, coming up on 8P here.
[23:56:26] <JT-Shop> ok Gene
[23:56:32] <gene77> No, axis, why?
[23:56:33] <JT-Shop> atom1: just about
[23:56:57] <JT-Shop> no, added to axis you can have ngcgui for subroutines
[23:57:11] <atom1> i'm gonna try to load that next
[23:57:12] <JT-Shop> I use it for 95% of the ops on my lathe
[23:57:29] <atom1> will it interfere with the other buttons i made?
[23:57:34] <JT-Shop> threading, tapping, boring, od, id , drill etc
[23:58:00] <JT-Shop> in what way atom1
[23:58:04] <atom1> i probably won't use it so much but i'd like to look at it
[23:58:11] <atom1> just the axis display
[23:58:17] <JT-Shop> no
[23:58:28] <atom1> since it loads on the side too doesn't it?
[23:58:37] <JT-Shop> yep
[23:59:01] <atom1> or does it make a tab for ngcgui?
[23:59:08] <JT-Shop> I use the one on the plasma to send it home when I put it to sleep so it homes faster when I wake it up
[23:59:39] <atom1> yeah i'll do that or leave it at the work zero coords
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[23:59:54] <atom1> ie a vise corner
[23:59:56] <JT-Shop> oh no it adds tabs after DRO tabs