#linuxcnc | Logs for 2012-06-01

[00:00:13] <andypugh> It's a car-computer
[00:00:21] <JT-Shop> ah
[00:00:29] <jymmm> car or embedded system, kiosk, etc
[00:00:40] <jymmm> JT-Shop: alex4nder- said it has good latency
[00:00:48] <ds3> 8-19V isn't that friendly
[00:01:19] <andypugh> Now to find if the PCi-e to PCI bridge thingies are Mesa-card friendly
[00:04:33] <Tom_itx> doubtful
[00:05:09] <andypugh> Aye. I found this: Intel DN2800MT
[00:05:15] <andypugh> No, not that
[00:05:42] <andypugh> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/130700474117
[00:06:25] <andypugh> But I admit that when I pressed the button I was looking at the £2.95 ones that on reflection are PCIe x1 to PCIe x 16
[00:07:23] <andypugh> I can just buy a 6i25 and sell the 5i25
[00:08:18] <andypugh> (as that is easier than arranging a swap, and I didn't actually buy the 5i25)
[00:09:42] <JT-Shop> dang I got an answer from the commerical zzone http://www.cnczone.com/forums/phase_converters_vfd/155450-simodrive_611_phase_converter.html
[00:10:48] <Tom_itx> what's the 6i25?
[00:11:29] <andypugh> PCIe version of 5i25
[00:11:39] <Tom_itx> it's out?>
[00:12:05] <ScribbleJ> Well.....
[00:12:16] <ScribbleJ> I have gone to the garage and run my first real gcode.
[00:12:24] -!- iwoj [iwoj!~iwoj@d23-16-234-107.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[00:12:26] <ScribbleJ> I have determined I have approximately a ton to learn.
[00:12:30] -!- Guthur has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[00:13:10] <andypugh> JT-Shop: Darn, but he sounds dumb enough to be correct.
[00:13:56] <andypugh> ScribbleJ: Yeah, I thought you would be back with questions, but it seemed churlish to spoil the moment by saying it at the time
[00:14:07] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop one way to turn back time :)
[00:15:04] <Tom_itx> i dislike messages that take on a txting flavor
[00:16:50] <andypugh> JT-Shop: He isn't even all that far away from you. If he can sell you a transformer and then take it away again if it doesn't perform as claimed, then I think that is the way to go.
[00:18:03] <Tom_itx> bit more than a stone's throw
[00:18:25] <Tom_itx> but within reach
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[00:24:48] <r00t4rd3d> http://i.imgur.com/YG6UV.jpg
[00:25:04] <r00t4rd3d> land speed record, 1948
[00:27:03] <andypugh> Rolly Free, Vincent
[00:27:18] <andypugh> I just know these things
[00:28:23] <andypugh> Ah, but I can't spell. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rollie_free
[00:28:39] <JT-Shop> andypugh: did you follow the link?
[00:28:56] <andypugh> Which link?
[00:29:05] <JT-Shop> transformers lol
[00:29:26] <andypugh> I did look at the picture, yes. I didn't rcognise the URL
[00:29:49] <JT-Shop> it pulls up the toy transformers
[00:31:58] <andypugh> I could tell that Mr TxT speak dude hadn't inserted the "transfomer" link, and it was presumably CommercialNastyCommmercial Zone earning a few cents with an auto-link
[00:33:13] <andypugh> The respondants own link is http://KilroyWasHere.com/ and that looks a lot more promising.
[00:33:43] <JT-Shop> I hate the commerical zone
[00:33:57] <andypugh> Kilroy is a motion control co in Ohio
[00:34:23] <andypugh> (assuming that OH is Ohio, not Omaha
[00:34:26] <jdhNC> that post hurts my brain.
[00:35:08] <andypugh> Yes, but, it is actual experience from someone too dumb to type. I trust that kind of opinion :-)
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[00:36:25] <JT-Shop> yea, typing skills are not required to fix CNC equipment
[00:37:10] <andypugh> "Our goal is to provide a service to our customers through quality synergistic technical sales of all our principal's state of the art motion control products"
[00:37:27] <andypugh> So, he can at least proof-read
[00:37:41] <pfred1> if it don't work use a bigger hammer
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[00:38:07] <joe9> i have VOLATILE_HOME = 1 and i believe it causes the m/c to home on each startup. Is that a good idea or not? What is the recommended practice?
[00:38:23] * pfred1 is only good up to a 12 pounder the 16s and 22s are just too big for me to get a really good swing on
[00:38:38] <pfred1> but I can do some serious damage with a 12
[00:39:01] <andypugh> OK, now I do despair of the US university system, as that CNCzone post was from a EI Graduate from Dayton in 1975
[00:39:06] <pfred1> 3 foot thick concrete footings OK
[00:39:42] <roycroft> the us university system was still top-notch in 1975
[00:39:47] <andypugh> joe9: Define "startup" as you understand it?
[00:39:53] <roycroft> despair of what it's become now
[00:40:27] <roycroft> despair that we had a presidential candidate who ridiculed our president for putting forth that he wants every american to have the opportunity to go to college
[00:40:52] <andypugh> Not just the US. My degree syllabus now takes 4 years, not the 3 I took, but they get a Masters at the end.
[00:40:54] <pfred1> roycroft why you think every job requires college?
[00:41:01] <roycroft> despair that it takes the average college student 30 years to pay off loans
[00:41:09] <roycroft> who ever said or thought that every job requires college?
[00:41:11] <jymmm> andypugh: Did you order it?
[00:41:12] <pfred1> not that I haven't been asshole to wlbow in a ditch with PHDs
[00:41:24] <pfred1> but it isn't really a requirement to pick and shovel
[00:41:26] <andypugh> jymmm: Yes
[00:41:35] <jymmm> andypugh: Oh cool, glad I was able to help
[00:41:40] * JT-Shop wanders in for some bubbles and squeak
[00:41:43] <jymmm> I think it's helping =)
[00:41:49] <roycroft> i don't know of anyone who ever said everyone should go to college
[00:41:51] <jymmm> JT-Shop: sueak?
[00:41:53] <roycroft> or even suggested that
[00:41:56] <jymmm> squeak?
[00:41:57] <roycroft> that's ridiculous
[00:42:07] <pfred1> 20:39 < roycroft> despair that we had a presidential candidate who ridiculed our president for putting forth that he wants every american to have the opportunity to go to college
[00:42:09] <roycroft> and that is certainly not what the president said
[00:42:23] <roycroft> so you have zero reading comprehension?
[00:42:25] <JT-Shop> food jymmm
[00:42:30] <roycroft> nothing in that statement suggested that everyone should go to college
[00:42:32] <pfred1> I'd ridicule any asshole that blew that crap out of their ass too
[00:42:39] <jymmm> JT-Shop: Enjoy the grule
[00:42:45] <JT-Shop> deep shit
[00:42:48] <JT-Shop> aye
[00:42:48] <roycroft> the president said that everyone should have the *OPPORTUNITY* to go to college
[00:42:50] <Tom_itx> maybe he suggests that he will fund anyone that wishes to?
[00:42:54] <roycroft> there is a big difference there
[00:43:15] <andypugh> I think that PhDs can, on average, wield a pick and shovel equally well as anyone else. But might spend a little too long pondering optimal pick/shovel strategies.
[00:43:16] <Tom_itx> the big difference is who pays
[00:43:35] <pfred1> that is plain silly you mean a retard living in a ghetto should have the *OPPORTUNITY* to go to college?
[00:43:37] <Tom_itx> me(taxpayer) or the kid that got to go free
[00:43:40] <pfred1> why?
[00:43:48] <roycroft> yes, phred1
[00:44:09] <roycroft> if that person qualifies for college and chooses a career path that requires it, indeed, that person should be able to go to college
[00:44:12] <pfred1> what good would it do the idiot the institution or society at large?
[00:44:28] <roycroft> you sound about as moronic as rick santorum here
[00:44:38] <roycroft> i'm sorry, i did not mean to engage in a political debate
[00:44:39] <jymmm> I have seen *SO* many technical ppl get away from it into more fundamental things.... cooks, chefs, catering, manufacturing crafts,etc enjoying whay they do and making a slow profit from it too
[00:44:40] <pfred1> ah now you're being particular with them having to qualify
[00:44:45] <Tom_itx> i know ppl that take classes so they can have extra cash to spend free and clear
[00:44:49] <roycroft> but what your're saying is absolutely ludicrous
[00:45:11] <roycroft> i should have the opportunity to become a world-class golfer
[00:45:17] <pfred1> I'm not the one making all inclusive statements which are almost always patently false
[00:45:18] <roycroft> but if i can't play golf well i won't be one
[00:45:21] <andypugh> pfred1: Perhaps the point is that the smart, poor kid from a family who can't spell "college" should be able to go there, even if their family don't see the value and refuse to pay. Which is something I can wholeheartedly agree with.
[00:45:28] <jymmm> roycroft: Can you get any higher on your Drama Queen vocabulary ???
[00:45:29] <Tom_itx> roycroft they will teach you how
[00:45:34] <roycroft> which is quite different than my being able to play well, but being excluded from the pga
[00:45:39] <roycroft> that is a lost opportunnity
[00:45:43] <roycroft> opportunity
[00:45:52] <pfred1> andypugh look college is to separate the haves from the have nots you can't have a society based on chaos
[00:46:04] <roycroft> yes, andypugh, that is the point
[00:46:06] <pfred1> you can't pay you can't play
[00:46:11] <roycroft> that is *exactly* the point
[00:46:17] <pfred1> indeed it is
[00:46:17] <roycroft> and that is what the president meant
[00:46:21] <roycroft> quite clearly
[00:46:24] <roycroft> and he was ridiculed for it
[00:46:39] <pfred1> the point is it isn't easy to break out of your social strata tough shit
[00:47:02] <jymmm> pfred1: tough shit?
[00:47:09] <roycroft> and investing in public education is one of the best investments we as a society can make
[00:47:10] <pfred1> jymmm chew harder
[00:47:15] <jymmm> pfred1: ah
[00:47:23] <pfred1> pfft pissing money into a fan
[00:47:36] <roycroft> it's been clearly shown that a person who goes to college and graduates contributes significantly more in tax revenue than a person who does not
[00:47:38] <andypugh> Actually, can anyone become a top golfer? I have a feeling that it is one sport where women can play on equal terms?
[00:47:45] <roycroft> much more than the cost of educating the person
[00:47:49] <roycroft> so roi is a net positive
[00:48:08] <roycroft> women can't play on equal terms, generally, as they are not as strong as men
[00:48:18] <pfred1> andypugh golf is a lot about height it gives you leverage
[00:48:35] <roycroft> that's a big part of it, but it also requires significant strength
[00:48:56] <andypugh> Certainly it is impossible for a woman to play for a professional male football (soccer) team, even though surely the best female professional player is better than the worst male one.
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[00:49:16] <roycroft> i'd say the playing field is closer to equal in golf, but it's still not equal
[00:49:25] <pfred1> yeah think of the scandal when someone slaps her on the ass after a good play
[00:49:28] <roycroft> golf vs. football
[00:49:40] <andypugh> My question is if they are allowed to, were they good enough?
[00:50:05] <roycroft> let's worry about getting the darkies into augusta national before we start trying to get women in too
[00:50:08] <pfred1> we had two females in my labor hall
[00:50:11] <pfred1> they were jokes
[00:50:45] <roycroft> or allowing jews into some of the exclusive country clubs in chicago
[00:51:09] <roycroft> the golfing world is one of the last bastions of extreme racism and sexism
[00:51:20] <roycroft> extreme overt racism and sexism
[00:51:24] <pfred1> tiger woods is white?
[00:51:34] <roycroft> tiger woods is not a member of agusta
[00:51:37] <pfred1> no you want racism and sexism try nascar
[00:51:40] <roycroft> augusta
[00:51:40] <jymmm> pfred1: No, mexican jew transvestite
[00:51:47] <roycroft> and he is not allowed to join because he's part black
[00:51:56] <pfred1> the last colored person that tried to run nascar didn't quite make a lap before someone put them over the wall
[00:52:07] <andypugh> Ah, the answer: "Sörenstam made history at the Bank of America Colonial tournament in 2003 as the first woman to play in a PGA Tour event since 1945"
[00:52:13] <roycroft> nascar is all about trying to find two working synapses in the same brain that can communicate with each other
[00:52:19] <pfred1> he almost made it
[00:52:36] <pfred1> shit lets see you run on the track let alone competitively
[00:52:57] <pfred1> you couldn't make a lap if the track was empty
[00:53:09] <pfred1> it only looks easy
[00:53:16] <roycroft> it doesn't look easy to me
[00:53:24] <roycroft> and i should clarify my remark about it
[00:53:34] <pfred1> then what was your synapse comment supposed to mean?
[00:53:39] <roycroft> it was geared towards the fan base, not the drivers
[00:53:56] <andypugh> Whereas in cricket and football the rules specifically exclude mixed teams (and Korfball requires them, which seems equaly odd)
[00:53:58] <pfred1> yeah i hate when they come down here after a race
[00:54:13] <pfred1> though I didn't notice them and the race was last weekend here
[00:54:35] <pfred1> I didn't go over to the beach on Sunday though
[00:54:39] <roycroft> anyway, i've created a stir that i did not intend, and i apologise for that
[00:54:41] * roycroft shuts up now
[00:55:03] * jymmm hands roycroft his cookie
[00:55:13] <pfred1> I'm going up to Dover tomorrow but not to the track
[00:55:36] <andypugh> To look at the white cliffs?
[00:55:45] <pfred1> I've walked on the Daytona track and even that isn't easy
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[00:56:17] <pfred1> andypugh ain't no cliffs in this whol.e state not even a legitimate hill I ever seen
[00:57:06] <andypugh> I never got how the US borrowed place names for places with _absolutely_ nothing in common with the original
[00:57:08] <jymmm> NASCAR is a "Southern" thing
[00:57:33] <pfred1> well it started out with moonshiners
[00:57:46] <Tom_itx> pfred1 the got a new female driver now
[00:57:50] <pfred1> they'd get together on SUnday to see who had the fasted shine running car
[00:58:00] <Tom_itx> and it's not their fault some can't drive
[00:58:02] <jymmm> pfred1: Sure, but I mean it's not really an "outsiders sport" for the most part.
[00:58:11] <pfred1> Tom_itx yeah I haven't followed nascar too closely since the 70s
[00:58:16] <andypugh> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Cliffs_of_Dover
[00:58:19] <pfred1> it is to ocorporate today
[00:58:24] <Tom_itx> agreed
[00:58:40] <jymmm> pfred1: there is still that "Southern boy" mentality to it
[00:58:50] <pfred1> used to be the good ole boys would come int othe track with 4 cases of beer each and some would die right in the stands of alcohol poisioning
[00:58:50] <Tom_itx> aside from danica who is there for the revenue
[00:58:55] <andypugh> Didn't Danica Patrick win a Nascar race? Or was that IndyCar?
[00:58:58] <pfred1> good times
[00:59:14] <Tom_itx> andypugh i don't think she's won anything yet
[00:59:19] <Tom_itx> but she's doing ok at it
[00:59:32] <Tom_itx> this is her first year in the sprint cup series
[00:59:40] <jymmm> I love how she's sorta been "paraded" around the announcers booths before each race recently
[00:59:43] <Tom_itx> driving for stewart haas
[00:59:49] <pfred1> my dad was best friends with a famous indy car driver and he knew rodger penske too
[01:00:04] <andypugh> "With her win in the 2008 Indy Japan 300, Patrick became the first woman to win an Indy car race"
[01:00:10] <pfred1> if i walked up to rodger he'd have a heart attack
[01:00:19] <pfred1> coz I look a lot like my dad :)
[01:00:49] <pfred1> I think i even met mark when I was a baby
[01:01:31] <pfred1> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Donohue
[01:01:36] <andypugh> Tom_itx: Up there, she has posted a win.
[01:02:58] <Tom_itx> in indy
[01:03:45] <pfred1> how about that mark won the indy 500 in 1972
[01:04:10] <andypugh> Ah, yes. Has she moved to Nascar now then?
[01:04:20] <Tom_itx> full time as of this year
[01:04:32] <pfred1> if you want to catch a cool movie about indy racing get senna
[01:04:39] <pfred1> intense!
[01:04:40] <Tom_itx> drove part time in the nationwide series last year
[01:04:56] <Tom_itx> for Jr Motorsports
[01:06:16] <andypugh> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jenny_Tinmouth
[01:06:37] <pfred1> she have braces or something?
[01:06:42] <andypugh> Errr, Senna != Indy racing
[01:07:04] <pfred1> formula 1? it was all in spanish I didn't have any subtitles either
[01:07:31] <andypugh> Indeed, actual fast cars
[01:07:43] <pfred1> yeah he ended up a stain on the road
[01:08:10] <andypugh> He got a strut in the head.
[01:08:14] <pfred1> I built a fast car and went fast in it I decided it isn't for me
[01:08:30] <andypugh> But he probably was one of the best drivers ever
[01:08:46] <pfred1> somewhere past 140 I find it difficult to focus
[01:08:56] <andypugh> Though I am rather fond of Tazio Nuvalari
[01:09:12] <pfred1> they tried to run them cars in talledaga
[01:09:17] <pfred1> they made 5 laps
[01:09:34] <pfred1> they were clocking 240 MPH and the g forces were making guys black out
[01:09:43] <jymmm> pfred1: Heh, I always fear a blowout at that speed
[01:09:49] <pfred1> talladega is one bad assed track
[01:09:58] <andypugh> pfred1: You need more practice. I can hit 140 on a slip road (but it makes merging with 70mph traffic tricky)
[01:10:01] <pfred1> yeah I was only on H rated tires but it was cool
[01:10:39] <pfred1> andypugh no what i need is a 12 point crome moly roll cage
[01:10:41] <jymmm> pfred1: This was street car 140mph on empty 4 lanes fwy
[01:11:14] <pfred1> jymmm oh yeah what you got that goes that fast?
[01:11:20] <andypugh> Pah! I have touched 170 on my bike. Roll cages are for the prudent.
[01:11:37] <pfred1> I'm pretty prudent I did it in my Volvo
[01:12:32] <pfred1> although $7,000 of engine work probably wasn't the wisest investment choice I've ever made
[01:13:16] <pfred1> that got me everything but a supercharger
[01:13:52] <pfred1> when your car can break both tires loose in 4th at 100 MPH do you really need more power?
[01:14:07] <andypugh> Yes
[01:14:12] <pfred1> really?
[01:14:22] <jdhNC> is there more to be had?
[01:14:30] <pfred1> in second I can spin it around like it is on ice
[01:14:53] <andypugh> When your bike can flip at 130 when you hit 12000rpm, it's time to back off
[01:15:00] <pfred1> jdhNC well like i said it isn't supercharged or on laughing gas
[01:15:15] <pfred1> I've tached it to 8 grand I hear the motor is good to 10 grand
[01:15:26] <pfred1> it ain't no bike either
[01:15:37] <jymmm> pfred1: Cobra =)
[01:15:38] <andypugh> That's not a diesel then?
[01:15:44] <pfred1> I bored it .122 over stock
[01:15:54] <pfred1> jymmm which?
[01:16:17] <Tom_itx> andy talledega has pretty high banks
[01:16:22] <Tom_itx> lots of g force
[01:16:28] <jymmm> pfred1: wasnt mine, just one we serviced
[01:16:35] <pfred1> pfft they shut the race down at the 5th lap
[01:16:53] <pfred1> talladega you can run up to maybe 220
[01:17:03] <pfred1> past that it is beyond human endurance
[01:17:13] <andypugh> Pointless fact: My bike (stock from the factory) is geared for 105mph in 1st and 210mph in 6th. (it won't pul 6th above 186 though)
[01:17:13] <jymmm> isn't tallidega a short track?
[01:17:18] <pfred1> heh no
[01:17:20] <Tom_itx> just give em flight suits
[01:17:23] <pfred1> fastest track on the planet
[01:17:40] <pfred1> that is what it'd take g suits
[01:17:50] <jymmm> Nuh uh, Napa is =)
[01:18:02] <andypugh> I have driven at Nardo...
[01:18:11] <jymmm> sonoma, wtf ever that POS is called
[01:18:30] <Tom_itx> they've changed it's name a couple times haven't they?
[01:18:39] <andypugh> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nardò_Ring
[01:18:51] <pfred1> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talladega_Superspeedway
[01:18:57] <jymmm> Hell, I live here and won't go to sonoma
[01:18:58] <pfred1> super speedway
[01:19:53] <andypugh> I think Nardo might win with a 150mph neutral speed?
[01:20:09] <pfred1> Speeds well in excess of 200 mph (320 km/h) are commonplace at Talladega.
[01:20:19] <Tom_itx> andypugh i think they've done bike races at talladega as well
[01:20:28] <Tom_itx> not sure about the reported speeds
[01:20:54] <andypugh> _neutral_ speed, above that you need to steer...
[01:21:07] <Tom_itx> not sure what it is there
[01:21:28] <Tom_itx> 33 deg banking
[01:21:35] <andypugh> it's not a race track, it's a _really_ boring test track.
[01:22:28] <joe9> i have a 10" x 5" fixture, that I want to find the edges for (touch off). This is how I did it. http://codepad.org/UIbbQL5E wondering if anyone has any thoughts, please?
[01:22:29] <pfred1> throw 50 yahoos on it we'll see how boring it is
[01:22:40] <jymmm> one will do
[01:22:51] <andypugh> And it's bakingly hot (which is the point) I hate the place. I'll be back there in September.
[01:22:54] <Tom_itx> of late it is rather boreing
[01:23:45] <pfred1> well for all out speed we have the salt flats
[01:23:55] <pfred1> I seen the blue flame in person
[01:24:09] <pfred1> it holds the record for the longest skid out 12 miles
[01:24:17] <andypugh> joe9: Well, that all looks correct, but you don't need to do sums,
[01:24:29] <pfred1> I saw the tires that did it too
[01:24:51] <joe9> andypugh: ok, thanks. just take one edge you mean.
[01:25:07] <pfred1> they were burned down to the rim about 6 inches of solid rubber
[01:25:31] <andypugh> touch to X edge. press touch-off (after making sure you are in G54) type in -.1 Touch of Y edge, type in -.1 (or +.1 for far edge)
[01:26:45] <andypugh> then MDI G0 X[width/2] Y[height//2]
[01:26:59] <andypugh> then touch-off X to 0 and Y to 0
[01:27:18] <Tom_itx> oh andy, before you go i was gonna ask if this debounce line looks ok
[01:27:46] <Tom_itx> not that you must go but it seems near that time
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[01:28:14] <andypugh> Yes it is 0230 now you mention it
[01:28:28] <pfred1> yeah you zombie vampire
[01:28:46] <atom1> ##net debounce.0.0.in deb-home-x <= hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.gpio.046.in
[01:28:47] <atom1> ##net debounce.0.0.out => axis.0.home-sw-in axis.0.pos-lim-sw-in
[01:29:01] <Tom_itx> i'm using the same switch for limit and home
[01:29:06] <pfred1> how come people don't use electronic switch debouncing?
[01:31:25] <pfred1> easy enough to do with a Schmitt trigger
[01:31:38] <Tom_itx> i'm aware of that
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[01:32:49] <pfred1> what is the best thing to do measure your switch bounce then suppress it?
[01:33:06] <pfred1> I'd imagine every switch is different
[01:33:16] <Tom_itx> every press is
[01:33:37] <pfred1> I'd think the tension of the spring has some upper limiting effect
[01:34:33] <pfred1> do all switches even bounce like do hall effect sensors bounce?
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[01:34:40] <pfred1> or optical switches
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[01:35:38] <andypugh> software is free and adjustable, and you can debounce home and limit signals from the same switch differently if you choose
[01:35:51] <pfred1> how about mercury wetted contacts do they bounce?
[01:36:03] <Tom_itx> http://www.ikalogic.com/de-bouncing-circuits/
[01:36:16] <Tom_itx> http://www.all-electric.com/schematic/debounce.htm
[01:36:23] <jymmm> Bear Hunting with a .22
[01:36:25] <jymmm> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfsaWPJCkEc&feature=related
[01:36:30] <pfred1> andypugh nothing is free there is always some price to pay
[01:36:48] <andypugh> atom1: Your order is wrong. You need net signal pin pin pin pin
[01:37:32] <andypugh> net deb-home-x debounce.0.0.in <= hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.gpio.046.in
[01:37:37] <pfred1> Tom_itx I made one of these out of the TTL cookbook http://i.cmpnet.com/embedded/gifs/2004/0405/0405bpfig1.gif
[01:37:51] <pfred1> many long years ago!
[01:38:07] <atom1> andy, i've seen examples both ways :)
[01:38:17] <atom1> not sure if both work though
[01:38:32] <andypugh> Do bears need hunting? it seems to me they could just be ignored
[01:38:37] <pfred1> atom1 in life you'll learn there is the right way, the wrong way, and the navy way to do everything
[01:39:08] <jymmm> andypugh: If you spook one on a trail, or get between mama bear and baby bear
[01:39:15] <atom1> andypugh, , thanks for checking
[01:39:22] <pfred1> andypugh I saw the biggest bear in captivity and ah let me just say it wasn't something I'd idly ignore if there weren't 3 inch thick bears between me and it
[01:39:22] <andypugh> atom1: Only one way works. It doesn't matter which order the pins are in, but the Signal has to be the first thing after the net
[01:39:36] <pfred1> bars not bears
[01:39:36] <atom1> ok
[01:39:56] <pfred1> andypugh the saddest thing was a sign on the cage that said don't aggrivate the bear as it can break out of the cage
[01:39:57] <jymmm> andypugh: We went deer hunting once and saw cubs playing in a field, we drove the hhell out of there as fast as we could!
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[01:40:34] <andypugh> jymmm: That would be the "ignoring" thing I advocated.
[01:40:54] <pfred1> I sen black bears running across a road in Maine they loked like fat dogs
[01:40:58] <jymmm> andypugh: ah
[01:41:13] <pfred1> they were smart bears they knew to run fast across the road in front of us
[01:41:21] <andypugh> Maybe I meant "leaving alone"
[01:41:39] <atom1> andy, is the 'out' line ok?
[01:41:39] <pfred1> the trick there is to get the bear to agree to leave you alone
[01:42:02] <andypugh> I achieve that mainly by living on a bear-free island.
[01:42:03] <jymmm> Once I was driving down a mountain road at night, curned a corner to see a big cub walking down the road. just layed into the horn to scare him off the road
[01:42:05] <pfred1> with brown bears shoot first ask questions later
[01:43:08] <jymmm> bear spray!
[01:43:20] <pfred1> andypugh your island is bear free today because people used the shoot first policy for centuries
[01:43:29] <andypugh> I live in the UK, my scariest wildlife moment was being looked at a bit crossly by a cow.
[01:43:42] <jymmm> andypugh: lol
[01:44:13] <jymmm> andypugh: that was pretty good =)
[01:44:34] <jymmm> andypugh: You really do have to watch out for the goats though
[01:44:46] <andypugh> They are talking about importing wolves back, and we have some beavers now (300 years ago the last native beaver became a hat)
[01:44:52] <pfred1> I saw a bull moose up in Maine I didn't want to get too close to
[01:45:07] <pfred1> I swear a horse standing next to this thing would have looked like a dog
[01:45:13] <pfred1> it was huge!
[01:45:23] <jymmm> pfred1: and they have an attitude too
[01:45:24] <andypugh> Anyway, goodnight!
[01:45:35] <jymmm> andypugh: G'Night and thanks for the laugh
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[01:45:48] <pfred1> jymmm you could have laid down in its rack with your arms over your head and still had feet to spare
[01:46:09] <pfred1> I mean I can't overstate the size of this thing
[01:46:23] <pfred1> IU seen other moose and this thing was a gigantic moose
[01:46:26] <jymmm> pfred1: Oh I know, I saw the videos
[01:46:48] <pfred1> it was big for a moose
[01:46:58] <pfred1> it was that big
[01:47:19] <djdelorie> "it was so big, you could drive under it and miss!"
[01:47:40] <pfred1> maybe not that big but 9 feet at the shoulder i donno I didn't jump out of my canoe wit ha tape measure
[01:48:02] <pfred1> I seen really gigantic deer in the woods up there too
[01:48:05] <pfred1> like red ones
[01:48:11] <pfred1> they'd bark at me
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[01:48:54] <pfred1> I even saw giant redwoods up in upstate maine
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[01:49:10] <pfred1> I didn't think they were on the east coast
[01:49:28] <pfred1> we found these trees back in the woods they were like 400 500 feet tall
[01:49:41] <pfred1> easy 12 foot diameter at the trunk
[01:50:01] <pfred1> I bet i could find them on google maps
[01:50:06] <pfred1> I know about where they are
[01:52:28] <pfred1> the detail is BS but they're around here someplace http://goo.gl/maps/Sc8e
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[01:53:44] <pfred1> we told the ranger that day we were hiking out to lost pond he looked at us and said lost what? I still don't know if he was joking with us or not
[01:54:14] <pfred1> we kinda wanted to tell him you know in case we were never heard from again
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[01:56:57] <pfred1> that logging road wasn't there when I was there
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[02:15:57] <r00t4rd3d> http://i.imgur.com/2UU1t.jpg
[02:16:03] <r00t4rd3d> Im gonna need a bigger lens
[02:16:53] <ReadError_> did you machine that?
[02:17:30] <r00t4rd3d> yeah with my camera machine
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[02:18:23] <r00t4rd3d> it digitally edits pixels on my screen
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[02:19:36] <r00t4rd3d> ReadError_, my router is finally done
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[02:21:12] <ReadError_> oh?
[02:21:15] <ReadError_> you cutting yet
[02:21:18] <r00t4rd3d> nope
[02:21:32] <ReadError_> y not?
[02:22:05] <r00t4rd3d> i just got the motor wiring done this morning before work
[02:22:40] <r00t4rd3d> i need to wire up my power supply and tb6560
[02:22:51] <jdhNC> I now have ACBs and ballscrews on all 3 axes. And some backlash.
[02:24:34] <Tom_itx> rewiring my limit switches this evening
[02:24:42] <r00t4rd3d> i want a porter cable router but if i do i have to change the size of my linear rails
[02:25:01] <jdhNC> r00t: bigger is better.
[02:25:06] <r00t4rd3d> not with girls
[02:25:09] <jdhNC> but, I'm sure you've seen that email
[02:25:24] <jdhNC> r00t: they are lying to you
[02:25:58] <ReadError_> http://p.twimg.com/AuRN9adCMAA-tGw.jpg:large
[02:26:02] <ReadError_> shes comin together
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[02:26:21] <jdhNC> I have a bunch microswitches for limits but I have some prox switches coming that I want to try
[02:27:03] <r00t4rd3d> read are you cutting that stuff out or did you buy that frame?
[02:27:09] <ReadError_> i cut it all
[02:27:17] <ReadError_> besides the square tube
[02:27:18] <r00t4rd3d> well cut me one too then
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[02:27:48] <ReadError_> lol
[02:27:52] <ReadError_> i can send you the gcode ;)
[02:28:11] <r00t4rd3d> i wouldnt even know what to do with it
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[02:28:36] <r00t4rd3d> yet
[02:28:39] <ReadError_> thats what she said
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[02:43:24] <pfred1> ReadError_ is that an electrical box in the middle?
[02:43:31] <ReadError_> nah
[02:43:38] <pfred1> they make electrical boxes that look just like that
[02:43:47] <ReadError_> quadcopter
[02:44:06] <pfred1> I have a milk crate of them here
[02:45:01] <ReadError_> oh i see
[02:45:03] <ReadError_> like for outlets
[02:45:13] <ReadError_> well thats 0.125" aluminum
[02:45:16] <ReadError_> 2 of them
[02:46:11] <pfred1> ReadError_ http://productimages.grainger.com/is/image/Grainger/5A047_AS01?$productdetail$
[02:46:25] <ReadError_> ya similar in shape
[02:46:29] <pfred1> I've seen them with more defined corners sometimes too
[02:46:45] <pfred1> that one was probably stamped out in china or something
[02:47:43] <pfred1> I hate aluminum
[02:48:03] <pfred1> stuff is a pain to weld and I never know how much I can trust it for strength
[02:48:24] <pfred1> I'm just a lot more familiar with steel I guess
[02:49:49] <pfred1> good old steel
[02:50:04] <ReadError_> well
[02:50:09] <ReadError_> weight is a concern here
[02:50:31] <pfred1> then go with carbon fiber
[02:51:00] <pfred1> I guess aluminum is nice if you have to hacksaw it
[02:51:12] <pfred1> by hand
[02:51:19] <ReadError_> CF is expensive
[02:51:23] <pfred1> I cut the stuff on my tablesaw
[02:51:28] <ReadError_> my next will be CF
[02:51:36] <pfred1> like half inch thick plate
[02:51:57] <pfred1> I've worked with harder woods than aluminum
[02:52:38] <pfred1> like hard rock maple
[02:53:10] <pfred1> they don't call it hard rock maple for nothing
[02:54:32] <pfred1> you can make stuff that flies out of spruce
[02:54:48] <pfred1> like the spruce goose!
[02:55:11] <pfred1> one of the coolest planes in WW2 was made out of plywood
[02:55:17] <pfred1> the british mosquito
[02:56:43] <pfred1> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Havilland_Mosquito
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[03:14:05] <jdhNC> did you ever see a ngcgui pocket routine?
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[03:20:52] <pfred1> jdhNC which Star Trek series was that in?
[03:21:11] <jymmm> TNG
[03:21:26] <pfred1> oh gawd I could never watch that one
[03:21:34] <jymmm> lol
[03:21:37] <pfred1> TNG was like the worst!
[03:21:49] <jymmm> I liked DS9 personally
[03:21:56] <pfred1> OK maybe deeply spaced out to the nines was worse tough call to make
[03:21:57] <Connor> I'm watching the Star Trek Animated right now on netflix.
[03:22:10] <Connor> OMG, it's almost better than the real ones.. acting not as bad..
[03:23:06] <pfred1> I like how on TNG the ship would get attacked then ceiling hatches would open up and flexible duct work would pour out onto the cast crew members
[03:23:20] <pfred1> like they couldn't afford duct hangers or something
[03:23:49] <Connor> I always wondered why their consoles blew up in their faces.. Ever hear of a fuse folks ? :)
[03:24:17] <pfred1> yeah you'd think by then they'd use photonics or something not even waste time with electricity anymore
[03:24:47] <jymmm> It's not electricity, it's all fiber optic energy ducts =)
[03:24:58] <jymmm> They never say wire =)
[03:25:12] <pfred1> yeah wire too technical
[03:25:40] <pfred1> hey I was in a deli today and their phone is broken so the verizon guys comes out looks at it then leaves saying I don't work on copper!
[03:25:42] <jymmm> not geeky enough
[03:25:55] <pfred1> can you believe it?
[03:26:06] <jymmm> pfred1: lol, not my job
[03:26:21] <pfred1> yeah they should pink slip his ass and give the job to someone with some ethics
[03:26:45] <pfred1> shouldn't be his job at all
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[03:27:11] <jymmm> isn't that all union now?
[03:27:31] <jymmm> so linemen cna't work mpoe stuff?
[03:27:45] <pfred1> bust the union
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[03:36:26] <jymmm> LOL, I love it... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIQJ_FJ8zsQ&feature=related
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[03:49:39] <pfred1> chip shot: http://i.imgur.com/vvN0u.jpg
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[03:53:17] <pfred1> this is one piece of "stock" I used on that project http://i.imgur.com/moivW.jpg more like scrap
[04:02:07] <ReadError_> wtf is that
[04:07:51] <pfred1> steel
[04:08:05] <pfred1> it is a tounge tab off a piece of angle iron
[04:12:15] <ReadError_> why you taking apart batteries ?
[04:12:27] <ReadError_> if they where lithium i would suspect you to be makin crank
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[04:35:15] <pfred1> ReadError_ I wanted to see what was inside them
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[05:13:22] <jymmm> Long, but very interesting... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86XmQra5WMU&NR=1&feature=endscreen
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[06:55:27] <DJ9DJ> moin
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[09:21:07] <elmo40> http://www.learnsmartsystems.com/products/documents/promo_documents/012695_quick-dirty-subnetting.pdf
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[13:12:26] <Loetmichel> hrhr, result of half a day rage of destruction: anybode needs some steppers, fans or servos? -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=13248
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[13:29:16] <ScribbleJ> Nice work, Loet.
[13:29:46] <archivist> still some scrapping to be done!
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[13:37:37] <Loetmichel> archivist: no, 'nuff done
[13:38:11] <Loetmichel> the screpheap guy said:"i take them away if the outer plastic hull is removed"
[13:38:13] <Loetmichel> so did we
[13:38:23] <Loetmichel> ... and some cnice parts ;-)
[13:38:44] <archivist> he will cry when he finds no motors :)
[13:38:55] <Loetmichel> i i had to scrap them as a company i had to pay over 2000 eur a ton
[13:39:14] <archivist> pcb's can make good money from gold scrap merchants
[13:39:16] <Loetmichel> so this is the cheaper solution
[13:39:31] <Loetmichel> right, but not in the prionter
[13:39:52] <Loetmichel> and i sitll have to get rid of about 2 cbm plastic parts now ;-)
[13:41:46] <archivist> the market for plastic is improving if separated and bagged by the ton:)
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[14:24:25] <ScribbleJ> OMG so many all the questions.
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[14:24:54] <ScribbleJ> I guess andypugh knew I was going to end up in over my head.
[14:25:20] <ScribbleJ> IchGuckLive, thank you for the fanuc11m tip on Powermill! I managed to get gcode that LinuxCNC interpreted correctly, I think.
[14:25:29] <IchGuckLive> Hi Question im in a git compiled linuxcnc on run in place where do i need to put (.axisrc)
[14:25:47] <IchGuckLive> ScribbleJ: NP
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[14:30:37] <jdhNC> Ich: no real clue, but I'd suggest ~
[14:31:46] <IchGuckLive> for a in place running system this may harm the real install from synaptic
[14:32:46] <ScribbleJ> I didn't think the Ubuntu packaging guidlines allowed you to install things in ~
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[14:33:16] <IchGuckLive> ScribbleJ: i can
[14:33:19] <ScribbleJ> I mean - if you have a package install, I don't think it should interfere with things in ~
[14:34:01] <IchGuckLive> jdhNC: ithink i modify Axis on root_window.bind(
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[14:51:19] <joe9> once in a while, I get the "realtime latency" message from linuxcnc. Is that normal? I do not anything getting skipped
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[14:59:19] <jthornton> that means you have a problem with latency and you only get warned once per session
[15:01:49] <ScribbleJ> If you havea problem with latency are steps delayed, or are they sometimes skipped?
[15:02:40] <ScribbleJ> I got about halfway through my first gcode and it was going along fine but then the router started doing all the work 5mm above the workpeice while lcnc told me it was 3mm inside.
[15:02:50] <ScribbleJ> I figure my Zskipped hard for some reason.
[15:05:13] <jthornton> that sounds like sticky or accel too high or volts too low or any of the mechanical reasons that steppers might skip a step
[15:05:31] <ScribbleJ> yeah, that's what I figure.
[15:06:11] <ScribbleJ> I'm glad it skipped up and not down anyhow.
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[15:18:03] <JT-Shop> yea, even a blind mouse gets lucky from time to time and gets some cheese
[15:18:54] <skunkworks> even a broken clock is right twice a day
[15:18:57] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop you gonna try that transformer on your 3 phase inverter?
[15:19:41] <JT-Shop> if I can find one... got some more info today on transformers that Siemes specs out 3% impedence for the isolation transformer
[15:19:49] <JT-Shop> Siemens
[15:20:17] <JT-Shop> good info to know and I understand why now after all these speriments
[15:20:24] <Tom_itx> i hope that works, we didn't have such luck with that little Fadal
[15:20:41] <Tom_itx> we just swapped out it's main transformer for a 220 single phase one
[15:21:09] <JT-Shop> I'm not getting any luck either, I'm having to make my own luck
[15:21:15] <Tom_itx> afterward he built another shop and had 3 phase brought in
[15:21:40] <Tom_itx> if i didn't have bad luck i would have none
[15:22:18] <JT-Shop> lol
[15:23:01] <Tom_itx> need to test my switches today. got that all rewired last night
[15:23:07] <JT-Shop> cool
[15:23:15] <Tom_itx> added a bunch more grounds to stuff
[15:23:30] <Tom_itx> each stepper frame and shielded all the switch wires
[15:24:07] <skunkworks> 3 phase is a block away from the garage...
[15:24:08] <Tom_itx> dunno if that will fix it but it can't hurt
[15:24:25] <skunkworks> and probably $10k
[15:24:42] <Tom_itx> yeah
[15:24:57] <Tom_itx> he had to show that he would use alot of power before they would bring it in
[15:25:08] <Tom_itx> but i don't think they charged him
[15:25:14] <JT-Shop> yea, they wanted something like that to drop 3 phase from the pole next to the other shop
[15:25:37] <JT-Shop> and pay a min bill that was high as a cat's back
[15:25:43] <skunkworks> heh - we where lucky at dads shop - they brought 3 phase in for not too much $ (but that was 20 years ago or so)
[15:25:47] <Tom_itx> and then with his 3rd new shop it was a given that it would be wired 3 phase
[15:26:07] <Tom_itx> that's the one you've seen pics of
[15:26:29] <Tom_itx> he's since retired though so i don't get out there much anymore
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[15:27:54] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop yeah that may have been the guaranteed power useage they were looking for
[15:28:09] <JT-Shop> yep
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[15:31:24] <Tom_itx> his dad used to restore stearmans next door at his rural airport
[15:32:01] <JT-Shop> cool
[15:32:09] <Tom_itx> with one of the largest inventories of parts for them in the US i think
[15:32:17] <Tom_itx> you'd never now it though
[15:32:25] <Tom_itx> know*
[15:32:29] <JT-Shop> I restored a couple of Cessna's in a previous life time
[15:33:00] * JT-Shop wanders off to start up the power station and make a few parts
[15:33:06] <Tom_itx> he'd have some gal come in and hand stitch the wing cloth before they doped it
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[16:04:00] <JT-Shop> "John, that makes sense that if you add more stabilizing loads on ur 3ph - by running another motor off the rpc - it makes the 3 ph even 'stiffer' so less 'spongy' so ur siemens 611 sees less noise floating around confusing itself....."
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[16:11:40] <Loetmichel> re @ home
[16:15:24] <Loetmichel> soo, now i have 18 steppers 5,3 Ohm, 18 steppers 6,8Ohm, both 7,5°, and 18 24V 2A 200lpr dc servos in my car. THAT was a nice destruction day today ;-)
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[16:37:47] <ReadError_> Loetmichel
[16:37:52] <ReadError_> you see my quad frame?
[16:38:19] <Loetmichel> no?
[16:38:36] <ReadError_> http://p.twimg.com/AuRN9adCMAA-tGw.jpg:large ;o
[16:38:58] <Loetmichel> hrhr, nice and simple
[16:39:07] <Loetmichel> 15mm swuare tube?
[16:39:14] <Loetmichel> square
[16:39:39] <ReadError_> 3/4"
[16:39:43] <ReadError_> not sure what that is in MM
[16:46:33] <jdhNC> units(1)
[16:48:52] <Loetmichel> ReadError_: 1"= 25,4mm
[16:49:11] <Loetmichel> so nearly 20 mm
[16:49:22] <Loetmichel> little fat that baby ;-)
[16:49:29] <Connor> what's with ,'s vs .'s ?
[16:49:39] <Loetmichel> sorry, i'm german
[16:49:45] <ReadError_> Loetmichel: I got some huge motors on it
[16:49:49] <Loetmichel> german decimal is ,
[16:49:52] <jdhNC> they do weird stuff like that, and they use those weird units
[16:50:05] <ReadError_> http://www.bphobbies.com/view.asp?id=V450327&pid=B1898547
[16:50:10] <ReadError_> im running 4s
[16:50:17] <ReadError_> so im expecting 60oz of trust each
[16:50:35] <Loetmichel> hmmm, nice
[16:50:55] <Loetmichel> <-asks google what 60oz in N is ;-)
[16:51:02] <Connor> I know in electronics. for Ohms, EU uses N.. 3N3
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[16:51:33] <Loetmichel> ah, nearly 20N
[16:51:46] <Loetmichel> NEWTON!
[16:52:01] <Loetmichel> a bit on the trolling side today, Connor?
[16:52:22] <Connor> Loetmichel: No. :) Just wondering about ,'s vs .'s
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[16:52:39] <Connor> If your not use to seeing it.. it's a bit odd.
[16:52:46] <Connor> no biggie.
[16:53:06] <Connor> I like the N for . in the electronics stuff.. .'s are so hard to see sometimes.
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[16:57:21] <andypugh> Ah, psha!
[16:57:50] <andypugh> Is the _button in line 184 of fileselect.py (or whatever the name is) correct?
[16:58:04] <andypugh> It seems to more nearly work without it.
[16:59:06] <andypugh> The line number is from memory too. So might be wrong.
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[17:03:53] <Loetmichel> Connor: the electronics letter instad of decimal ist not always N
[17:04:11] <Loetmichel> its the denominator for the multiplyer
[17:04:16] <Loetmichel> -y+ie
[17:04:44] <Loetmichel> its just shorter to write 1k5 than 1.5 kOhm
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[17:08:00] <Gigs-> Do you all think a rotary table is worth getting on a CNC?
[17:08:15] <Gigs-> I can't think of much you could do with it that you couldn't just do with regular CNC operations
[17:08:33] <jdhNC> cut a hex on a shaft?
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[17:08:44] <jdhNC> gear hobbing?
[17:08:58] <jdhNC> slot slitting?
[17:08:58] <Gigs-> couldn't you just do that with x/y?
[17:09:38] <Tom_itx> there are places the rotary makes jobs easier
[17:09:46] <Gigs-> here's the mill I'm looking at Tom_itx
[17:09:47] <Gigs-> http://www.tormach.com/product_pcnc_770_main
[17:09:50] <Tom_itx> there are usually more than one way to skin a cat
[17:10:00] <Gigs-> though I'm also looking at their 1100
[17:10:15] <jdhNC> I like to look at them also.
[17:10:21] <Gigs-> hehe
[17:10:30] <Gigs-> It will be mine!
[17:10:42] <Tom_itx> get a manual and add the electronics
[17:10:42] <Gigs-> I just need to find some suckers... I mean investors
[17:10:48] <Tom_itx> spend the money you save on tooling
[17:10:54] <Gigs-> my dad has a manual already
[17:11:00] <Tom_itx> convert it
[17:11:03] <Gigs-> ex-cell-o
[17:11:06] <jdhNC> a rotary axis sitting on the table is less interesting than one mounted 90 degrees to the table (IMO)
[17:11:14] <Tom_itx> agreed
[17:11:17] <Gigs-> the tormach rotary table goes both ways jdh
[17:11:54] <Gigs-> I don't know if my dad would appreciate me hanging a bunch of shit off his ex-cell-o
[17:12:21] <Tom_itx> what's the travel on that one?
[17:12:30] <Tom_itx> usually Y is too small for me
[17:12:44] <Gigs-> hmmm, not sure, it's fairly small as far as mills go
[17:12:57] <Gigs-> it's industrial sized though, runs on 3 phase with a phase converter
[17:13:33] <Gigs-> if I had to guess I'd say it goes at least 12 inches Y
[17:13:45] <Gigs-> the xlo I mean
[17:13:52] <Gigs-> the tormach has full specs online you can check out
[17:14:05] <Tom_itx> i was hoping you did already :)
[17:14:26] <Gigs-> the 770 is 12x7.5x13.25 travel
[17:14:38] <Gigs-> the 1100 is 18x9.5x16.25
[17:14:40] <Tom_itx> is 13 z?
[17:14:43] <Tom_itx> probably
[17:14:51] <Gigs-> yeah I assume that's xyz
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[17:15:00] <Tom_itx> that's not so bad. i'd hope you could get more for 6k
[17:15:20] <Gigs-> you can get "more" but it's shitty stuff like dremel pushers
[17:15:35] <Gigs-> this is the best all around value I've found in this price range
[17:15:38] <archivist> Gigs-, rotaries, I could not do without one, but have two to create helical gears
[17:16:29] <jdhNC> never know when you might need to fix a bread machine.
[17:16:32] <Gigs-> hehe
[17:16:48] <Gigs-> yeah I guess something like a helical gear with what amounts to undercut you'd need rotary
[17:17:13] <Tom_itx> you'd also need the software to program that unless you know the math already
[17:17:26] <archivist> jdhNC, that was when it was still 4 axis, had to pack the rotary to the helix angle
[17:17:37] <Tom_itx> Gigs-, rotary impellers
[17:17:48] <IchGuckLive> Gigs-: not on the Z Axis as it is C on the X axis to go for A axis rotory
[17:18:27] <Gigs-> that statment makes my brain explode
[17:18:37] <Gigs-> sorry I'm kind of newbie with this
[17:19:06] <Tom_itx> in the x plane the rotary axis would be A
[17:19:11] <Tom_itx> is what he's saying
[17:19:18] <Tom_itx> in z it would be C
[17:19:25] <Gigs-> so like you all were saying, with it 90 deg from the table
[17:19:31] <Gigs-> yeah I can see there would be more benefit there
[17:19:31] <Tom_itx> yes
[17:19:52] <Gigs-> do I need to buy the computer with this machine?
[17:19:59] <Gigs-> It's not clear what sort of interface it is to control it
[17:20:07] <Tom_itx> what collets does that use?
[17:20:12] <Tom_itx> that's another consideration
[17:20:15] <jdhNC> if you are spending that much, might as well get all there stuff.
[17:20:29] <Gigs-> it has R8 taper spindle with ER20 collets, from what I gather
[17:20:55] <Tom_itx> and as soon as you get it, you'll want an automatic tool changer
[17:20:58] <Gigs-> I'm pretty sure I can use the stuff my dad has, his xlo is a bridgeport knock-off and I think it's R8 taper
[17:20:59] <archivist> but what about stacked rotaries on mine A becomes C as B rotates (I keep the name as B)
[17:21:08] <andypugh> A rotary is definitely worth having. Good for splined shafts, for example
[17:21:35] <jdhNC> and, it just looks damned cool in use.
[17:21:38] <andypugh> Even just engraving on a cylindrical surface.
[17:21:51] <archivist> access to dads machine means you can build from scratch too
[17:22:11] <Gigs-> heh I have little desire to build a CNC from scratch
[17:22:28] <Tom_itx> it's fun
[17:22:38] <Tom_itx> except i'd like a more rigid machine
[17:22:45] <Gigs-> with those sorts of projects I know how it goes... you wind up spending 100 hours in addition to the same amount of money as buying it
[17:23:20] <Gigs-> You may be able to make it better in certain ways than a manufactured machine but it's not usually cheaper
[17:23:21] <archivist> Tom_itx, add rigidity where you see it bending
[17:23:25] <andypugh> R8 spindle means you can choose any size of ER collet, or hold direct in the R8. However Tormach also have a quick-change system of their own which is quite nice.
[17:23:36] <Gigs-> andypugh: thanks, that confirms what I suspected
[17:24:17] <jdhNC> only 100 hours?
[17:24:32] <Gigs-> ok add another 100 for "it should work dammit"
[17:24:38] <Gigs-> i.e. debugging heh
[17:25:01] <andypugh> I must be at a thousand hours by now.
[17:25:11] <jdhNC> then add a few more for "looking around on the floor for ballnut bearings"
[17:25:30] <IchGuckLive> Gigs-: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhICrb0Tbn4 <- thats the most usefull for it A Axis ratio
[17:25:33] <Gigs-> anyway I'm starting up a business here and I think I can justify springing for a CNC, so if I can sell the potential investor(s) on the idea then I might be set
[17:25:55] <Tom_itx> better figure in some good cad cam software too
[17:26:01] <andypugh> Gigs-: Do you have commercial premises?
[17:26:02] <Tom_itx> that's another 8 or 10k
[17:26:03] <jdhNC> and tooling
[17:26:09] <Tom_itx> that's another 20k
[17:26:29] <Gigs-> andypugh: yeah kind of... my dad's shop is set up pretty well, it used to be a cabinet shop
[17:26:36] <andypugh> A used commercial machine might be better.
[17:26:37] <Gigs-> andypugh: he has a loading dock if that's what you are getting at
[17:26:50] <jdhNC> if I die diving, please don't let my wife sell my dive gear for what I told her I paid for it.
[17:27:01] <Tom_itx> haha
[17:27:03] <Gigs-> andypugh: he doesn't have 3ph, uses a rotary phase converter on his mill and lathe
[17:27:25] <Tom_itx> that could be an issue with cnc
[17:27:34] <Gigs-> the tormach are single phase
[17:27:40] <Gigs-> another reason I'm looking at them
[17:27:44] <andypugh> Aye, ask JT-Shop
[17:27:51] <jdhNC> you can get a used bridgeport for a whole lot less than a tormach. Might not be the scale you are interested in though.
[17:27:56] <archivist> what are you intending to make
[17:28:00] <jymmm> jdhNC: 50% of what your told her you paid for it, because it's use and someone died in it?
[17:28:08] <jymmm> used
[17:28:35] <jdhNC> hopefully she will get more !
[17:28:51] <Gigs-> archivist: initially, some ABS parts for mid-sized production run but probably metal stuff later, gun parts and accessories
[17:29:08] <jdhNC> I actually have several things I got from deceased divers.
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[17:29:46] <Gigs-> my dad is a gunsmith, that's primarily what he uses his manual machines for
[17:29:52] <archivist> Gigs-, then a tool changer is important
[17:30:14] <jdhNC> gigs: where?
[17:30:24] <Gigs-> jdhNC: a bridgeport CNC for less than $5000?
[17:30:45] <IchGuckLive> you can get it for halfe that
[17:31:00] <Gigs-> what's the downside?
[17:31:02] <archivist> Gigs-, get a dead one retrofit with linux cnc , then you can get cheap
[17:31:37] <jdhNC> that it's dead, and you have to retrofit it
[17:32:27] <archivist> a few in here have industrial quality that way
[17:32:34] <IchGuckLive> Gigs-: http://www.ebay.de/itm/CNC-Wood-Engraving-Machine-Engraver-Cutter-Router-1318-50-x70-2-2KW-spindle-/120921321369?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c2778ef99
[17:33:16] <archivist> IchGuckLive, that does not match what he eventually wants to make
[17:33:36] <Gigs-> yeah that looks kind of cheesy
[17:34:05] <andypugh> Gigs-: http://www.ebay.com/itm/160563818921 Toolchanger and about what you are looking at pricewise.
[17:34:22] <IchGuckLive> then he needs a real mashine and transform it into a CNC
[17:35:00] <andypugh> But, quite old, so the controller probably isn't great, and a LinuxCNC retrofit is likely to cost $500
[17:35:07] <andypugh> plus time.
[17:35:09] <Gigs-> and the floor will need an upgrade
[17:35:12] <Gigs-> 7900 pounds!
[17:35:24] <andypugh> Weight is good in a machine tool.
[17:35:36] <archivist> solid meaty nourishment :)
[17:36:24] <archivist> never mind gun parts, that will make tank parts
[17:36:49] <andypugh> Why is it that eBay.co.uk has "lowest first" sorting, and ebay.com doesn't?
[17:37:01] <jdhNC> different cookie
[17:37:09] <Gigs-> thanks for the alternatives, but still leaning toward the new machine. I don't think I'd be good at scraping ways or fixing up an older one.
[17:37:44] <Gigs-> my dad is a good machinist but his back is bad, and I'm a relative newb to it
[17:37:49] <jdhNC> I think there is some bias toward making things that work vs. just wanting to make parts
[17:38:00] <Tom_itx> Gigs- i forgot where you were located..
[17:38:03] <Gigs-> virginia
[17:38:15] <Tom_itx> mmm i was thinking of lorez
[17:38:17] <Tom_itx> in ok
[17:38:19] <andypugh> True, you will get very diffferent advice on PracticalMachinist.com
[17:38:22] <Gigs-> he's in virginia too I think
[17:38:24] <archivist> andypugh, I get a different default when I change to another pc on ebay.co.uk, dunno how to set the default yet
[17:38:28] <Tom_itx> Gigs- he is?
[17:38:32] <Tom_itx> he was in Ok
[17:38:35] <Gigs-> yeah like near the beach I thought
[17:38:39] <Gigs-> maybe that was someone else
[17:38:47] <andypugh> archivist: I am not meaning the default, I am meaing that the option isn't even there.
[17:38:58] <Tom_itx> i'd check the local market for used machines too
[17:39:14] <jdhNC> http://www.ebay.com/itm/220931275998
[17:39:31] <ScribbleJ> how do you move something like that?
[17:39:54] <andypugh> We are biased, we are hanging about, for fun, on a forum related to retrofitting. If Giggs wants to make parts then I think a turnkey Tormach is a very good choice.
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[17:40:40] <jdhNC> and lots of TTS, and the auto tool changer
[17:40:46] <ScribbleJ> http://www.flickr.com/photos/13723140@N04/7315508628/in/photostream
[17:41:07] <andypugh> But you might as well buy tooling as you need it,
[17:41:08] <jdhNC> It's beautiful. Or something.
[17:41:29] <archivist> andypugh, the .com is price and shipping added lowest first if you want
[17:41:34] <Tom_itx> i'd like to find a machine like that and cnc it myself
[17:41:46] <Tom_itx> that would save probably at least 1/3 the cost i bet
[17:41:53] <Tom_itx> probably more
[17:42:09] <jdhNC> I'd have to factor in the cost of the divorce and moving.
[17:42:12] <ScribbleJ> I'd love to find a machine like that and CNC it myself.... but my first problem would be how do you move something so big and heavy. And that would be my second and third problem too. The fourth would be how you power it.
[17:42:13] <ScribbleJ> Heh
[17:42:17] <andypugh> archivist: Yes, but shipping distorts things when I am looking at eBay.com
[17:42:26] <Tom_itx> jdhNC hitmen cost less
[17:42:26] <archivist> true
[17:43:16] <jdhNC> Tom; I'm pretty sure they don't really exist. At least the ones you hear about are undercover policemen.
[17:43:25] <Tom_itx> ScribbleJ i'd love to have that problem
[17:45:25] <andypugh> There is also the danger with a used CNC that it was scrapped for a reason. Like the way that the last 3 PC PSUs I have pulled out the skip at work have been brokem!
[17:46:09] <ScribbleJ> Is there a better way to figure out what speed/accel my machine can ahndle than to just keep driving it faster and listening for skipped steps and grinds?
[17:46:30] <andypugh> No, that's the way
[17:46:35] <Tom_itx> andypugh, yeah it's a risk but no risk no reward
[17:46:37] <ScribbleJ> related: is there a chart someplace of decent feedrates and spindle speeds for various bits and materials?
[17:47:00] <Tom_itx> ScribbleJ i posted one the other day
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[17:51:19] <Tom_itx> http://www.custompartnet.com/calculator/milling-speed-and-feed
[17:51:24] <Tom_itx> that was one of them
[17:51:44] <archivist> ScribbleJ, I loaded (weights) the machine upped the numbers till it skipped, then backed off quite a bit
[17:51:50] <Tom_itx> http://www.daycounter.com/Calculators/GCode/Feed-Rate-Calculator.phtml
[17:51:54] <Tom_itx> that one shows materials
[17:52:00] <Tom_itx> ScribbleJ ^^
[17:52:20] <andypugh> This looks fun: http://itunes.apple.com/gb/app/walter-feeds-speeds/id454963587?mt=8
[17:53:26] <Tom_itx> ok, off to the post office then maybe i'll test out my new wiring
[17:53:57] <Tom_itx> andypugh what sort of machine do you have?
[17:54:35] <andypugh> Err, well, I feel like the famous emperor now.
[17:55:01] <Tom_itx> i know you do alot of testing but never knew what you used
[17:55:25] <andypugh> I have a cheap chinese lathe/mill combo and I am part way through converting a Harrison universal miller
[17:55:45] <andypugh> But I don't actually do much actual machining.
[17:55:49] <ScribbleJ> Jeez, how big is the working area on a mill that can make a universe?
[17:56:02] <ScribbleJ> thanks for those links, Tom_itx
[17:56:11] <Tom_itx> i knew that, i think you get more out of coding maybe?
[17:56:23] <andypugh> I am downloading the iPhone App
[17:56:35] <jdhNC> and DIY motors
[17:56:41] <andypugh> At the moment, possibly. I go in phases.
[17:56:46] <Tom_itx> don't we all
[17:56:52] <Tom_itx> ok, gtg
[17:56:56] <andypugh> I like that I can move from one aspect to another
[17:57:13] <Tom_itx> same, but i'm not so good at some things
[17:57:27] <Tom_itx> keep trying to improve though
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[18:23:27] <Gigs-> I don't speak german, can someone give me a quick rundown of the relationship between linuxcnc and EMC?
[18:24:12] <djdelorie> EMC is a file server company. LinuxCNC is a machine control program
[18:24:17] <A0Sheds> same thing, new name IIRC
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[18:25:33] <djdelorie> LinuxCNC used to call itself "EMC" for "enhanced machine controller" but EMC asked it to change, and LinuxCNC agreed to.
[18:25:42] <Gigs-> oh ok
[18:26:50] <Gigs-> so let me see if I have this right... the machine controller is going to take... some format that is basically machine commands
[18:27:05] <Gigs-> cam software can generate these paths from cad, right?
[18:27:22] <djdelorie> LinuxCNC takes industry-standard "gcode" for commands. G-Code can be generated by cad/cam packages, scripts, text editors, etc.
[18:27:24] <Gigs-> The last CNC I worked with was a tiny one in 1993
[18:28:55] <Gigs-> yeah I think I wrote gcode directly back then
[18:29:37] <Gigs-> are there special controller cards or is it all USB now?
[18:30:15] <archivist> usb is a nono, too much latency
[18:31:50] <ScribbleJ> Believe it or not, most folks are using parallel ports now.
[18:31:56] <ScribbleJ> So we're totally current with 1993 tech.
[18:32:00] <djdelorie> Gigs-: typically, either plain parallel ports or PCI gpio cards
[18:32:04] <Gigs-> http://www.tormach.com/store/index.php?app=ecom&ns=prodshow&ref=30260
[18:32:09] <Gigs-> it looks like a parallel cable
[18:32:31] <Gigs-> so this stuff is pretty standardized?
[18:32:35] <djdelorie> IEEE-1284 *is* parallel
[18:32:49] <Gigs-> I could save some money by not buying their windows/mach3 controller if there's open source toolchains
[18:32:51] <djdelorie> note: usb-to-parallel adapters will *not* work
[18:33:00] <Gigs-> yeah usb-to-parallel always sucked
[18:33:07] <djdelorie> it's free to try, go for it! :-)
[18:33:09] <ScribbleJ> Gigs-, if Mach3 will drive it, LinuxCNC will drive it.
[18:33:15] <ScribbleJ> You'll have no problem.
[18:33:27] <Gigs-> well they mention that they used to sell linux/EMC based controllers
[18:33:35] <andypugh> I think Tormach will supply LinuxCNC pre-configured?
[18:33:37] <Gigs-> I think they stopped because they didn't want to do tech support on it
[18:33:48] <Gigs-> there's old documents that indicate they did
[18:34:11] <andypugh> Really? They seem fairly keen on LinuxCNC, they even offered to host an event at their factory.
[18:34:18] <Gigs-> I guess not any more
[18:34:29] <Gigs-> the one document I saw seemed to strongly encourage mach3 use
[18:34:45] <Gigs-> and now it's not an option on their site anymore to get EMC
[18:35:14] <djdelorie> perhaps they offer it, but don't advertise it? People who need lots of support get the newbie-hand-holding software, people who know what they want get what they want
[18:35:53] <Gigs-> other than a ruggedized PC I don't see much benefit in buying it preconfigured from them
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[18:36:17] <Gigs-> is it that hard to configure?
[18:36:27] <andypugh> No, not at all.
[18:36:44] <Gigs-> then I might as well save a $800 and use a computer I have laying around
[18:36:47] <Connor> Is that one stepper or servo based ?
[18:36:49] <archivist> getting a low latency motherboard is the only issue
[18:36:51] <djdelorie> the process is easy, but if you don't understand the terminology it can be a bit confusing, and easy to mis-configure. Ask here for help :-)
[18:36:52] <Gigs-> step connor
[18:37:07] <Connor> Simple $300.00 Atom PC will do you
[18:37:08] <Gigs-> djdelorie: I will thanks
[18:37:11] <djdelorie> I'm using an ancient pc I pulled out of the junk pile, works fine
[18:37:26] <andypugh> http://www.tormach.com/store/index.php?app=ecom&ns=prodshow&ref=TMC
[18:37:38] <andypugh> There you are, two options.
[18:37:58] <Gigs-> oh ok
[18:37:58] <Connor> Atom PC with 4 gig of ram 64 GB SSD would cost around $180.00 or so, throw in another $60 for the case.
[18:38:22] <Gigs-> yeah a tiny PC you could stick on the vesa mount with the monitor would be cool
[18:38:24] <Gigs-> save some room
[18:38:35] <Gigs-> might be a little tricky to find a tiny atom with parallel though
[18:39:14] <Connor> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813121442
[18:39:28] <Connor> use a PCI based parport card
[18:39:32] <andypugh> http://www.tormach.com/uploads/226/TD_ControlSystemAlternatives-pdf.html
[18:39:49] <andypugh> The D525MW has Parallel
[18:39:52] <Gigs-> connor as opposed to one integrated in the southbridge?
[18:40:01] <Connor> Yea.
[18:40:05] <Gigs-> why?
[18:40:40] <Connor> Just easier. for me. I had issues with the onboard one.. I'm not sure if anyone here has gotten the onboard one to work ?
[18:40:42] <andypugh> Just get this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813121442
[18:40:49] <djdelorie> ZAP! Damn, need another motherboard...
[18:40:59] <Connor> andypugh: That's the one I linked to. :)
[18:41:01] <djdelorie> vs ZAP! Damn, need another cheap pci card...
[18:41:14] <andypugh> At $79 anothr motherboard isn't such an isue
[18:41:15] <Gigs-> connor it may have been a voltage levels issue
[18:41:28] <Gigs-> some MBs like to do stuff like only drive it up to 3.3v or less
[18:41:42] <Gigs-> LPT is supposed to be 0-5 IIRC
[18:41:44] <djdelorie> 3.3v is *valid* though
[18:41:52] <andypugh> Or, if you zap the motherboard parport, that's your excuse for the Mesa 5i25 upgrade
[18:41:56] <djdelorie> it's 0-5 *TTL* so anything about 2.4v is legal
[18:41:59] <pcw_home> 2.4V ls valid TTL
[18:43:35] <Connor> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815104231
[18:43:48] <Connor> Dual port parport card. the one I use and is known to work without issues.
[18:45:45] <andypugh> The D525MW motherboard parport is known to work without issues too, and the board has great latency
[18:46:37] <pcw_home> the D525 PP also works in EPP mode for Pico systems and our EPP stuff
[18:47:06] <ScribbleJ> what is great latency?
[18:47:11] <djdelorie> zero
[18:47:13] <djdelorie> :-)
[18:47:18] <ScribbleJ> I bought the D525MW, it's what i'm using.
[18:47:19] <djdelorie> switching computers...
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[18:47:37] <pcw_home> pretty sure the D525 is <10 usec
[18:48:20] <Connor> I have my base thread set to 3000 or so.
[18:48:46] <Connor> I get a error when loading emc, but,I think it's because of the loading.
[18:49:39] <pcw_home> someone on IRC got even better numbers from the DN2800MT
[18:49:54] <ScribbleJ> I'm reasonably certain I set mine to 10k and still get the error.
[18:50:09] <Connor> is Tormach part of LMS or LMS just one of the only distributors ?
[18:50:29] <Gigs-> I wonder that myself
[18:50:35] <Gigs-> the prices are the same
[18:51:18] <ReadError_> ScribbleJ
[18:51:21] <ReadError_> did you do that mod
[18:51:23] <Connor> Admin contacts on the two domains are different.
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[18:51:28] <ScribbleJ> Wait, what mod?
[18:51:30] <andypugh> LMS sell other stuff too.
[18:51:32] <ReadError_> where it dedicates 1 CPU to RT ?
[18:51:35] <Gigs-> connor the sites are layed out similarly
[18:51:46] <ScribbleJ> I don't think I have, no.
[18:52:03] <Connor> Tormach in Wisconsin, LMS in Pasadena, CA
[18:52:07] <ScribbleJ> If you blow your latency does linuxcnc skip steps or just get delayed?
[18:52:16] <Gigs-> LMS is drop shipping the tormach stuff at a minimum
[18:52:35] <Gigs-> because it all ships from the factory
[18:52:39] <Connor> Maybe the large stuff.. not the tooling and QCTP and stuff.
[18:52:50] <Gigs-> yeah
[18:53:02] <ReadError_> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?The_Isolcpus_Boot_Parameter_And_GRUB2
[18:53:35] <Connor> oh, and turn hyper-threading OFF
[18:54:55] <ScribbleJ> Ok, thanks... I'll try both those things.
[18:55:55] <Connor> Gigs-: I like my G0704 I just converted.
[19:01:26] <Gigs-> connor how much for the base machine and what do you have in the conversion money wise
[19:02:32] <Connor> Just a few min, on phone with a client.
[19:02:54] <Gigs-> ok np
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[19:05:29] <Gigs-> Any of you all machined extrusion ABS, the kind with the haircell texture on one side?
[19:05:35] <andypugh> ScribbleJ: If you over-run then there is a warning printed once, but LinuxCNC carries on.
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[19:07:22] <_abc_> What do people use as cheap probe?
[19:07:30] <_abc_> I mean a 3D switch?
[19:09:18] <_abc_> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Touch_Probe okay am reading stuff
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[19:10:39] <jymmm> I have a single burner BUTANE stove, can I use PROPANE with it?
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[19:10:56] <mrsun> why not
[19:11:04] <mrsun> butane, propane .. same shit different carbon attoms :P
[19:11:04] <jymmm> wrong answer
[19:11:21] <mrsun> they mix propane/butane to make different grades of gas
[19:11:31] <jymmm> you can't use NG and LPG as example
[19:11:48] <mrsun> and what is NG and LPG ?
[19:12:03] <andypugh> There is a cheap one on the market, and it looks like it might actually be available (I thought it was vaporware) http://www.wildhorse-innovations.com/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=80&added=1
[19:12:04] <jymmm> LPG == Propane
[19:12:15] <andypugh> _abc_: That link was for you
[19:12:25] <mrsun> Varieties of LPG bought and sold include mixes that are primarily propane (C3H8), primarily butane (C4H10) and, most commonly, mixes including both propane and butane, depending on the season in winter more propane, in summer more butane[citation needed].
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[19:13:18] <jymmm> andypugh: you can hit up alex4nder for details on that mobo
[19:13:59] <alex4nder> sup
[19:14:47] <andypugh> I bought that DN2800 motherboard, on a whim
[19:15:25] <jymmm> mrsun: See, even that wikipedia entry is questionable as in cold weather propane doesn't do so well on the liquid to gas conversation. Not sure if it's better or worse than butane, but I have noticed that butane (lighter) needs to be heated (body temp) sometime to ignite.
[19:15:34] <alex4nder> andypugh: it's working well for me.
[19:15:53] <alex4nder> the only issue I've found so far is a complete lack of good graphics drivers.
[19:16:09] <andypugh> I am thinking I made a mistake, as I was going to use the Mesa 5i25 card with it, and it has the wrong sort of PCI
[19:16:11] <alex4nder> I'm running vesa with mine.
[19:16:25] <alex4nder> andypugh: oh, yah, that's not happening.
[19:16:31] <alex4nder> it's all modern.
[19:16:36] <alex4nder> with and PCIe
[19:16:39] <andypugh> I saw really cheap adaptors, then realised that they were not what I thought.
[19:16:39] <alex4nder> s/and//
[19:16:49] <Gigs-> butane has a higher boiling point and flash point than propane
[19:16:55] <_abc_> andypugh: looks like yet another implementation of the same patent
[19:16:58] <Gigs-> it need to be hotter to keep the pressure up
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[19:17:16] <andypugh> _abc_: Yes, but ready-built and dirt cheap
[19:17:28] <_abc_> $100 is not cheap for a fancy contact
[19:17:37] <_abc_> andypugh: I can do better than that for $19
[19:17:38] <andypugh> It is for a probe
[19:17:54] <andypugh> Using?
[19:18:00] <_abc_> no comment :)
[19:18:06] <_abc_> it has a ruby tip even
[19:18:46] <andypugh> And works in 3D
[19:18:47] <andypugh> ?
[19:18:57] <_abc_> 2.5 to 3...
[19:19:08] <andypugh> I have seen tuby-tipped precision limit switches.
[19:19:17] <_abc_> it is not a switch
[19:19:40] <andypugh> But they cost twice as much as the Wildhorse probe, just for the switch
[19:19:55] <_abc_> no...
[19:19:55] <andypugh> Are talking about a webcam?
[19:19:58] <_abc_> no!
[19:20:17] <andypugh> I am bored of this game.
[19:20:23] <_abc_> You will have to wait until I put it up somewhere as a product I guess
[19:20:26] <alex4nder> what
[19:20:33] <_abc_> Anyway it is not patentable so just wait
[19:21:05] <Connor> Gigs-: G0704 is $1194.00 to your down. add a few more $$ for life gate service)
[19:21:52] <Connor> 3 Axis: 570Oz-in steppers with drivers, psu and BOB, $543.00
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[19:22:25] <Gigs-> bob?
[19:22:32] <Connor> Then, you have options from there as to make or purchase the stepper mounts, and if your going to do ball screws or use stock screw.
[19:22:39] <Connor> BOB = Break out board.
[19:22:59] <Connor> Parallel break out board with opto isolation.
[19:23:02] <andypugh> _abc_: I doubt that the Wildhorse probe costs them anywhere near $20 in materials, but they have to make, build and sell them.
[19:23:04] <Gigs-> what are you using for the controller?
[19:23:24] <Connor> That Atom Mobo I linked to above and LinuxCNC
[19:23:40] <_abc_> andypugh: yes the work and testing cost much more than the device
[19:23:54] <Connor> Is this machine for Hobby, prototyping, or production, and what's your time frame for needing it ?
[19:24:24] <Gigs-> prototyping and production
[19:24:45] <Connor> So, You'll probably want to go ball screw
[19:25:06] <andypugh> I think that the Tormach is a fair bit more "serious" in construction than the G0704
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[19:25:42] <Gigs-> I agree, I don't know if I need all that considering the project at hand is mostly going to be machining ABS, but thinking about future work, I don't know
[19:26:00] <Tom_itx> Gigs-, for the pc, i'd go with the atom D525 and a mesa pci card
[19:26:16] <andypugh> It sounds to me like you need a machine, not a new and interesting hobby.
[19:26:24] <Tom_itx> i would have but the pci card wasn't available when i got mine so mine is a parallel port card
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[19:27:07] <alex4nder> Gigs-: how big of a footprint do you need?
[19:27:28] <Gigs-> not very big right now, the question is what I'd need for future stuff
[19:27:48] <Tom_itx> let the future pay for itself
[19:27:50] <alex4nder> yah
[19:27:59] <alex4nder> you'll want a newer bigger machine in the future.
[19:28:29] <jymmm> skunkworks: Did you hear what alex4nder said? you need a BIGGER machine!
[19:29:13] <alex4nder> always
[19:29:21] <Connor> That was with my suggestion of the G0704. For almost half the cost of the base 770, he can have a fully functional CNC that'll handle just about anything small scale without much issue.. and If he's never done anything CNC wise, he'll learn a hell of allot putting it together.
[19:29:34] <Connor> their is a outfit retrofitting G0704's now also.
[19:31:09] <Tom_itx> Gigs-, it's a bit of a learning curve but i'm sure you're up for it and when you're done you won't need to call tech support when something happens
[19:32:10] <Connor> psha: You around? andypugh ask you about that issue with GladeVCP and the open button ?
[19:32:20] <Tom_itx> there options for 2.5d cad out there that are decent too so unless you need full 3d you can get by for a lot less on that
[19:32:25] <Gigs-> sounds like the argument for building your own gun from a kit hehe
[19:32:37] <Gigs-> any of you use BRL-cad?
[19:32:45] <Tom_itx> never heard of it
[19:32:47] cylly2 is now known as Loetmichel
[19:32:52] <Tom_itx> cambam is one
[19:32:53] <Gigs-> brl-cad uses CSG
[19:33:07] <Gigs-> it was developed for ballistics research originally but it's open source now
[19:33:07] <andypugh> Whoa! nc is fun, and the manpage is even well written and readbale.
[19:33:07] <Tom_itx> i use a pro package i used to program with
[19:33:11] <jymmm> brl == .mil???
[19:33:21] <Gigs-> yeah it was written by them jymmm
[19:33:27] <Gigs-> open source since like 2005 though
[19:34:04] <Gigs-> I like the idea of CSG because most of the 3d work I've ever done has been in second life heh
[19:34:16] <Gigs-> so I'm pretty familiar with modeling based on primitives
[19:36:12] <Gigs-> how stiff is the g0704?
[19:36:47] <Connor> It's pretty good. Better design than the X3's.
[19:37:26] <roycroft> the g0704 was not out yet when i got my x3 clone
[19:37:29] <roycroft> g0463?
[19:37:45] <Connor> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/benchtop_machines/111863-hosss_g0704.html
[19:37:51] <roycroft> i'd likely have gotten it if it were
[19:38:03] <Connor> also check out the the benchtop forum too.. LOTS of people converting the 704's
[19:39:03] <Connor> Gigs-: What kind of budget do you have in mind ?
[19:40:32] <roycroft> i wonder if the way covers for the 0703 could be adapted to the 0463
[19:40:43] <roycroft> i still don't have way covers and it bugs me a lot
[19:41:09] <Connor> I'm going to do stainless hinged one on the back for the Z/Y
[19:41:52] <psha> Connor: around
[19:41:53] <psha> no
[19:41:58] <psha> have not asked
[19:42:05] <roycroft> what machine do you have, connor?
[19:42:12] <Connor> roycroft: G0704
[19:42:15] <roycroft> aah
[19:42:47] <Connor> (12:57:21 PM) andypugh: Ah, psha!
[19:42:47] <Connor> (12:57:49 PM) andypugh: Is the _button in line 184 of fileselect.py (or whatever the name is) correct?
[19:42:47] <Connor> (12:58:04 PM) andypugh: It seems to more nearly work without it.
[19:42:48] <Connor> (12:59:05 PM) andypugh: The line number is from memory too. So might be wrong.
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[19:44:06] <joe9> is brl-cad better than freecad? I like freecad as it takes python scripts.
[19:47:48] <Connor> psha: I was trying to make a button to open a g-code file automatically (well, in this case a .py file for F-Engrave)
[19:48:40] <psha> and?
[19:48:51] <Connor> Didn't work.
[19:49:00] <Connor> Nothing happens when I click the button.
[19:49:14] <psha> any errors in console?
[19:49:25] <psha> wait a bit, i'll update my tree
[19:49:29] <psha> what version are you using?
[19:49:51] <Connor> 2.5 sim atm.. Not tried it on the production box.
[19:54:59] <psha> Connor: if you replace that line with just self._load_file...?
[19:55:02] <psha> better?
[19:55:26] <Connor> Be just a few before I can try it out.
[19:55:51] <psha> _button was removed long-long ago
[19:55:57] <psha> but that's code path was not tested
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[19:56:38] <psha> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hQpVY3Dhzg
[19:56:39] <psha> :)
[20:00:10] <archivist> joe9, brl-cad will take a bit of learning but its use case is not general design (at the moment)
[20:00:59] <joe9> archivist: ok, thanks.
[20:01:54] <andypugh> psha: That's marvellous. But I wish there was a data counter
[20:02:01] <psha> yea
[20:02:18] <andypugh> Some echos live on, look at this part of the NL / BE border: https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=baal&hl=en&ll=51.45144,4.96685&spn=0.186993,0.451126&sll=51.457216,4.965477&sspn=0.18697,0.451126&t=m&radius=11.67&hq=baal&z=12
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[20:04:30] <gene77> jthornton?
[20:04:47] <psha> andypugh: wow, nice border :)
[20:05:03] <psha> http://www.openmapsurfer.uni-hd.de/?zoom=13&lat=51.43918&lon=4.92518&layers=00000BFFF
[20:05:10] <psha> a bit cleaner look at same place
[20:05:40] <andypugh> There are bits of holland inside bits of belgium inside bits of holland
[20:06:36] <gene77> JTshop?
[20:06:44] <andypugh> The rule is that whether you re in holland or belgium depends on where your front door is. Apparently people have been known to move doors for tax reasons.
[20:07:17] <_abc_> andypugh: yes, and when you use your cell in your garage you pay roaming
[20:08:10] <Tom_itx> andypugh some eating establishment here is on a state line where one state allows liquor and the other doesn't. they have mixed seating
[20:08:15] <_abc_> Borders like that were the main reason for the EU law on roaming charge limiting :)
[20:08:24] <_abc_> Tom_itx: lol
[20:08:41] <_abc_> Tom_itx: I never realized how dry some parts of North America are until I visited Canada
[20:08:57] <_abc_> Tom_itx: looks like Prohibition never stopped, it was just toned down a little
[20:09:25] <_abc_> Strange for advanced countries like Scandinavia and USA& Canada to hand on to silly things like that
[20:09:29] <andypugh> Canada never had Prohibition
[20:09:53] <_abc_> andypugh: No, but they have the Ontario LCBO which is about as bad as Alkoholbolaget
[20:09:56] <_abc_> in Sweden
[20:10:17] <gene77> That sounds like Kentucky here, where the city has to be so big before they can vote a specific area in the city as wet. Then they have to make more than 50% of their income from food to boot.
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[20:10:35] <Tom_itx> i saw a video once where niagra falls had frozen over and cars were hauling licker across the ice to the US
[20:10:49] <Tom_itx> like model A era
[20:10:53] <_abc_> heh
[20:11:23] <Tom_itx> i think it's only frozen over maybe once or twice.. is that fair to say?
[20:11:33] <gene77> Lots of Kentucky are dryer than a bone, but that doesn't stop Jack Daniels from brewing, but they can't taste it without taking it to a wet place. Might be 100 miles!
[20:11:40] <_abc_> Tom_itx: If you read .ca news, there is a row now over a lightening of liquor (wine!) laws which was supposed to allow one Canadian province't wineries to supply another. It did not go through...
[20:12:00] <_abc_> gene77: lol you can brew but not taste?
[20:12:25] <gene77> Thats correct
[20:12:41] <_abc_> Tom_itx: we are in 2012, wine from all over the planet is being exported and imported and 2 cnadian Provinces can't pass it between them in a truck ...
[20:12:47] <_abc_> Tom_itx: you call that okay?
[20:12:55] <gene77> Lynchburg is dry
[20:13:00] <_abc_> I'm in Eastern Europe, not even the monks are dry here
[20:13:07] <_abc_> I mean the nuns
[20:13:22] <_abc_> And there is remarkably little drunkenness
[20:13:25] <_abc_> Considering
[20:14:07] <gene77> That is because of the drunken driving laws I expect, 10x stiffer than here in the US
[20:14:28] <_abc_> gene77: here?!
[20:14:29] <_abc_> haha
[20:14:32] <_abc_> lol
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[20:15:02] <_abc_> I think 5 years is the maximum for killing someone while dui
[20:15:14] <jdhNC> lynchburg is in TN
[20:15:33] <jdhNC> and they do taste... just can't sell it.
[20:15:36] <_abc_> Russia has a serious problem with alcohol, however
[20:15:57] <_abc_> It is on their government's priority agenda
[20:16:13] <psha> ggg
[20:16:24] <psha> on our government priority is to sell oil and gas
[20:16:30] <_abc_> The worls is quite strange in many ways, countries and areas have very weird laws when you look at them from a distance.
[20:16:35] <Tom_itx> http://yawoot.com/post/3714
[20:16:41] <_abc_> pasha yes, I know. We buy some...
[20:16:42] <Tom_itx> see if that works
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[20:16:48] <jdhNC> 45,000 alcohol related traffic deaths in the .us, that doesn't seem to be a problem though.
[20:16:56] <psha> _abc_: everything else is not interesting for our gov
[20:16:56] <gene77> Its all bible belt, Baptist is very anti alky. And I are one, sorta. :)
[20:17:00] <psha> unfortunately
[20:17:56] <psha> ah, and to tell people that they have to thank government for everything they have
[20:17:58] <_abc_> Alcohol related traffic deaths: counting those who died while looking at a sexy ad for liquor, those who had a beer can slip under the brake pedal, those who walked in front of a bus while hudding 8 sixpacks, ... :)
[20:18:30] <_abc_> psha: was it not thank $deity before 1917 for that?
[20:18:37] <_abc_> psha: how the leaders change >:)
[20:18:57] <_abc_> psha: at least they got closer, no longer required to reach for the sky to replace them >:) >:)
[20:19:12] <psha> not closer
[20:19:22] <psha> we have our 'national leader' for at least 12 years more
[20:19:30] <_abc_> I know how that works
[20:19:33] <gene77> Where is Big John?
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[20:19:47] <psha> and he's there since ~2000
[20:19:48] <_abc_> Okay enough politics
[20:20:16] <psha> Connor: any success?
[20:20:20] <_abc_> What other means do people use besides accelerometers, cameras and switches, to sense contact for a probe?
[20:20:24] <gene77> Yeah, around here that can generate bloody noses...
[20:20:29] <Connor> psha: Sorry, At work, on phone with client.
[20:21:02] <psha> ok
[20:21:03] <Connor> psha: okay, I'm off.. what do I need to change and were?
[20:21:05] <psha> it's late here
[20:21:11] <psha> ah
[20:21:49] <psha> Connor: http://psha.org.ru/tmp/filechooser.patch
[20:22:24] <andypugh> You can just edit the file by hand, if you prefer.
[20:22:44] <Connor> doing so. I just need to find where that hal_filechooser.py file is on my file system
[20:22:53] <psha> andypugh: however patch file contains a) filename b) line number c) what you need to replace :)
[20:23:02] <psha> that's just form to tell him what to change
[20:23:17] <psha> Connor: dpkg -L linuxcnc-sim | grep hal_filech
[20:27:38] <Connor> were does asix/linuxcnc log erros from glade at ?
[20:28:45] <andypugh> I changed that last night, and then if seemed to fall over somewhere else: https://picasaweb.google.com/108164504656404380542/CNCUnsorted#5746547530954320162
[20:29:11] <andypugh> Ah, no, not that. Can't copy and paste from VM..
[20:29:29] <Connor> http://www.pastebin.ca/2157344
[20:31:20] <andypugh> Connor: Is that with LinuxCNC open?
[20:31:25] <Connor> yes
[20:31:39] <Connor> ran from command line
[20:31:46] <Connor> and outputed to stdout
[20:31:56] <andypugh> LinuxCNC_Action_Open at a guess
[20:33:06] <Connor> I think it's issue with get_filter_program..
[20:33:10] <Connor> self.ini
[20:33:53] <andypugh> Yes, it is looking in the INI file for a filefilter.
[20:34:27] <andypugh> That's where I drew a blank last night
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[20:41:31] <psha> Connor: another try
[20:41:35] <psha> patch at same place
[20:46:47] <Connor> http://pastebin.ca/2157351
[20:50:07] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[20:50:14] <jymmm> dn9
[20:50:24] <jymmm> gn9 even
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[20:54:34] <psha> Connor: heh, now i remember why there was _button :)
[20:54:44] <Connor> why? :)
[20:56:21] <psha> Connor: another try
[20:56:23] <psha> same place
[20:59:46] <Connor> okay, no crash, no errors, but no work either.
[21:01:59] <psha> :)
[21:02:43] <Connor> what does that : pass do ?
[21:02:57] <psha> nothing
[21:03:09] <psha> no need to load filters since there is not file chooser dialog
[21:03:21] <Connor> Oh.
[21:03:25] <psha> Connor: you have fixed file name?
[21:03:27] <psha> do you?
[21:03:35] <psha> may you try just simple .ngc file?
[21:03:37] <Connor> let me double check
[21:04:39] <Connor> Hmmm..
[21:04:48] <Connor> Okay, it changed the name in the titlebar to test.ngc
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[21:05:19] <Connor> but, the g-code screen still has the old splash g-code
[21:06:21] <Connor> but, it's DOING the correct g-code file.
[21:07:40] <Connor> let me try it with fengrace.py file now.
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[21:11:00] <Connor> Again, it works. but for what ever reason, the G-code file window still shows the old code, and the visual display of the file is incorrect.
[21:13:05] <psha> i've not found way to tell axis to reload file preview
[21:13:15] <psha> gremlin checks reload events and reflects that
[21:13:17] <psha> but not axis
[21:13:59] <Connor> Okay, so, that's expected behavior? For now ?
[21:14:13] <psha> yes
[21:14:27] <psha> so it's working now?
[21:14:42] <Connor> Yes, I just had to run the job.
[21:15:02] <jdhNC> does it update when you run it?
[21:15:12] <Connor> need to smack axis around a little to get it to know about the new file.
[21:15:15] <Connor> jdhNC: No.
[21:15:36] <Connor> It flips through the commands.. as if it WAS the file.. and continues to go even after it runs out...
[21:15:46] <jdhNC> heh
[21:15:51] <Connor> only way to tell it's right is based on the name in the title, and the path as it runs.
[21:16:06] <jdhNC> makes doing touch-offs to it difficult
[21:16:49] <Connor> Yea, I was just trying to embed f-engrave into the gui to make it a little easier..
[21:17:04] <Connor> if he can tell axis that a reload even happened.. then we're good.
[21:17:49] <jdhNC> vs. file/open/fengrave.py?
[21:17:58] <Connor> jdhNC: Correct.
[21:18:04] <Connor> Just a short cut.
[21:18:14] <Connor> Lotta trouble for that.. I thought it was a easy thing. :)
[21:18:54] <jdhNC> you get to learn something
[21:18:57] <Connor> ROFL, someone should come up with a Mach3 like GUI for EMC. :)
[21:27:22] <andypugh> Connor: You can do an entire GUI in Glade, so you could make one. :-)
[21:27:54] <Connor> andypugh: Yea. No. I don't have any desire. Just though it would be cute for those Mach3 noobs. :)
[21:27:56] <jdhNC> add a gremlin window for fengrave
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[21:29:09] <Connor> Glade is a little strange about the icons though.. some of the built in ones don't display when you run the Gui..
[21:29:12] <Connor> not sure what that's about.
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[22:02:58] <frallzor> yoyo bubbahs
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[22:40:36] <andypugh> pcw_home: What is the Instance stride for the UART?
[22:40:53] <andypugh> md seems to say 4, I think it is 10
[22:41:03] <frallzor> not much action here today =)
[22:41:22] <Tom_itx> frallzor you missed it all
[22:41:33] <frallzor> aww =(
[22:41:58] <frallzor> http://www.lolz.se/uploader/pics/morgans2.jpg todays work, a nice gift =)
[22:42:08] <frallzor> its in swedish
[22:42:50] <andypugh> A nice drop of grog.
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[23:00:16] <Tom_itx> so where do you search for 20yr old data sheets for electronic parts?
[23:00:29] <andypugh> The interwebs
[23:00:38] <Tom_itx> alldatasheet doesn't know about it
[23:00:50] <Tom_itx> came up dry so far
[23:00:50] <andypugh> What part?
[23:00:54] <Tom_itx> WEP170
[23:00:59] <Tom_itx> i think it's 2A diode
[23:01:06] <Tom_itx> but dunno the voltage
[23:02:34] <Tom_itx> tryin to fix up the centertap voltage for my smps regulator
[23:02:47] <andypugh> http://www.workmanelectronics.com/htmdocs/wep170.htm
[23:02:54] <Tom_itx> i have a bag of those and a bag of 1N4002
[23:03:10] <andypugh> Your google-fu is weak, young man.
[23:03:15] <Tom_itx> it must be
[23:03:25] <Tom_itx> i had 1000v down but wasn't sure
[23:03:31] <Tom_itx> at 2a
[23:03:41] <Tom_itx> ahh, workman
[23:03:49] <Tom_itx> i thought they may have been phillips
[23:04:18] <Tom_itx> probably a better choice than the 1N4002
[23:04:28] <andypugh> What I did: Googled WEP170 diode, saw the manufacturer, googled the manufacturer, searched their site.
[23:04:42] <Tom_itx> i don't generally use google
[23:05:03] <andypugh> REligious reasons?
[23:05:14] <Tom_itx> absolutely
[23:05:28] <Tom_itx> unless it's friday the 13th
[23:05:30] <Tom_itx> then i will
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[23:44:54] <gene77> Andy, I just got a box of 1mm and 1/32" mills in from MCT, so I stopped, changed the #60 for a 1mm, sweet, the s curves from the bit flex are gone. Progress.
[23:46:10] <jymmm> gene77: what you doin that's so tiny?
[23:46:53] <gene77> encoder wheel slots
[23:47:05] <jymmm> in metal?
[23:47:17] <andypugh> I did mine with a slitting saw.
[23:47:38] <andypugh> (horizontal axis on the rotary)
[23:48:00] <gene77> 0.018" alu sheet. neat, don't got.
[23:49:39] <gene77> I bought some 1mm's and some 1/32". maybe i can do a 60 cycle encoder yet
[23:57:30] <jdhNC> can I use single ended encoder inputs on a 7i47 by just feeding gnd or +5 to one side and signal to the other?