#linuxcnc | Logs for 2012-05-31

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[00:09:27] <JT-Shop> interesting with the VMC drive on I get 245, 245, 244
[00:10:04] <JT-Shop> turn on the Samson manual lathe and run the spindle at 660 rpm the volts drop to 244, 232, 232
[00:12:35] <JT-Shop> add the VMC spindle running at 1000 I get another drop to 244, 234, 229
[00:13:09] <Connor> ?
[00:13:16] <Connor> You get the generator working to test it out ?
[00:14:43] <skunkworks__> quite a drop - I bet the waveform looks even worse...
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[00:19:18] <JT-Shop> tested with a generator last week, was a bit of a struggle to keep it anywhere near 1800 rpm with only hand controls but seemed to run better on it
[00:22:16] <JT-Shop> I think I'll boost it up in the morning enough to get me by until I can secure a more permenant solution
[00:22:32] <Tom_itx> this your 3 phase inverter?
[00:22:36] <JT-Shop> Connor: did you read the ngcgui docs again
[00:22:39] <JT-Shop> aye
[00:22:49] <Connor> JT-Shop: ?
[00:22:55] <Tom_itx> maybe not big enough?
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[00:23:19] <JT-Shop> been bigger smaller and sideways with idler motors
[00:23:54] <JT-Shop> Connor: http://linuxcnc.org/docview/html/gui/ngcgui.html#_ini_file
[00:24:07] <JT-Shop> crap a typo
[00:25:18] <Connor> Cool. You updated the documentation to make it less confusing. :)
[00:25:19] <JT-Shop> the upshot from Siemens tech support for you guys that don't follow the mailing list is "oh, our drives don't work well with a rotary phase converter."
[00:25:25] <JT-Shop> aye
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[00:26:09] <Connor> WTF ? Sounds like a problem with the drive.. send it back and get something different.
[00:26:53] <Connor> Or did you convert from some other phase converter to the rotary ?
[00:26:54] <JT-Shop> LOL, you don't send back equipment made in the 90's
[00:27:09] <Connor> I wasn't sure what changed in your setup..
[00:27:09] <JT-Shop> you figure out how to make it work
[00:27:22] <JT-Shop> broken somewhat since day one
[00:27:57] <JT-Shop> dinner bell
[00:27:59] <Connor> okay, I know I've probably asked before.. but, will ask again.
[00:28:06] <Connor> I need to mill a part, then flip it..
[00:28:49] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop we found some of our cnc's didn't work on phase converters
[00:29:09] <Connor> what's the BEST and Easiest way to keep it centered for the flip? I'll be using a vise most likely and can use a end stop for the X, but, flipping it Y could cause me to be off a bit.
[00:29:10] <Tom_itx> the little Fadal we started with had to be converted to 220 v
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[04:05:39] <Connor> Dang, its dead in here.
[04:06:12] <alex4nder-> what up
[04:07:05] <Connor> I had asked a question. I want to mill a part, and need to flip it over and mill the other side.. Just trying to figure out the best way to flip it and not get out of wack.
[04:07:37] <ds3> 4th axis? :)
[04:07:47] <Connor> No.
[04:07:51] <jymmm> ds3: you still alive huh?
[04:07:52] <Connor> Just on the vise.
[04:08:02] <ds3> jymmm: just a zombie
[04:08:08] <jymmm> ds3: ah
[04:08:21] <ds3> Connor: you could setup a stop or a pin
[04:08:24] <ds3> how many parts?
[04:08:24] <alex4nder-> Connor: the usual: reference edges, pins, etc.
[04:08:30] <ds3> jymmm: how's the laser cutting?
[04:08:38] <alex4nder-> TANSTAAFL
[04:08:59] <jymmm> ds3: Fine, I'm working on another project atm though.
[04:09:24] <Connor> I'm going to attempt to cut out 5 parts from the same stock. Need to do 4 holes for each part, then a counter bore, the flip, and finish the part.
[04:09:25] <ds3> jymmm: 3D printing?
[04:09:33] <jymmm> ds3: Heh, no =)
[04:09:37] <alex4nder-> Connor: with 4 holes, use that as your reference.
[04:09:43] <ds3> Connor: setup a dowel to locate it
[04:10:02] <ds3> mill stop is easiest if you have that and have room
[04:11:14] <Connor> I can do that for the X, because I can set the part in the vise.. and move the part correctly.. and then tighten up.. Y is hard because it'll be up against the vise jaw.. I could be a few .001's out
[04:11:30] <ds3> or mill a parallel edge along the Y axis. then when you flip it, rezero on the edge
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[04:50:25] <jdhNC> Connor: whatcha making?
[04:50:40] <Connor> Well.. Working on tooling up to do 5 of these covers at once.
[04:50:46] <jdhNC> I've been reloading cheap chinese ballnuts all evening.
[04:50:56] <Connor> Oh Nice.
[04:51:03] <Connor> Why you reloading them?
[04:51:13] <jymmm> low sperm count
[04:51:42] <jdhNC> the X one was not smooth and made noise after grinding the flange away so I wanted to check for damage.
[04:52:06] <jdhNC> I dropped a few out of the Y when flipping the ballnut around (it was on backwards)
[04:52:13] <jymmm> jdhNC: and grinding sound now?
[04:52:17] <jymmm> any
[04:52:32] <jdhNC> nope, all better now. But, I left out 1 ball
[04:52:49] <jymmm> and with that in?
[04:52:56] <jdhNC> couldn't get it in.
[04:53:07] <jymmm> jdhNC: did you change the size of the balls?
[04:53:26] <jdhNC> nope, but I got it pretty hot when I was grinding it so it woudl fit.
[04:53:42] <jymmm> jdhNC: where are you?
[04:53:48] <jdhNC> home
[04:53:50] <jdhNC> :)
[04:53:53] <jymmm> city
[04:54:03] <jdhNC> wilmington.nc.us.earth
[04:54:14] <jymmm> .milkyway
[04:54:20] <jymmm> bitch!
[04:54:28] <jdhNC> everyone I talk to is there, it isn't needed.
[04:54:43] <jymmm> you aint trying hard nough then
[04:55:02] <jdhNC> Got the Y mounted and ready. Too late to screw around with X
[04:55:10] <jymmm> jdhNC: I have a source of balls if you ever need them
[04:55:14] <jdhNC> I got Y & Z up to 180IPM
[04:55:25] <jdhNC> jymm: usually you /msg stuff like that.
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[04:55:55] <jymmm> jdhNC: If you walk in, they will even let you hand-load your ballnuts right there
[04:56:26] <jdhNC> oh, for repacking. I'm tempted to pull the Z ballscrew out and check it. It has about 0.002 backlash (both directions)
[04:56:42] <jymmm> so even if there is wear, you can compensate for it
[04:57:04] <jdhNC> yep. Not sure it is worth it for these.
[04:57:26] <jymmm> you can buy a sample sizing kit from them
[04:57:30] <jdhNC> 2 16mm, 1 20mm, machined ends with ballnuts, $199 delivered
[04:58:09] <jymmm> Hell, even my Thompson Ballscrews from the factory hand-loaded is better
[04:59:39] <jymmm> I thought my X was mucked up, so I took it to Thompson and asked them to check it, nice and straight. Then hand loaded for me too while I was there.
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[05:07:38] <Connor> Simulating the job right now..
[05:07:58] <Connor> I have exaclty enough room do 5 stepper covers in one job.
[05:10:20] <jdhNC> all in the vise?
[05:10:43] <Connor> well.. I'm going to have to support the part on either end.. I think I can do it with 1-2-3 blocks.
[05:11:08] <jdhNC> have you hacked off the back of your vise yet!
[05:11:16] <Connor> no.
[05:11:44] <Connor> I have some major aversion to doing that.
[05:11:46] <jdhNC> how did the 2nd coat of paint look?
[05:11:59] <jdhNC> me too. Even though there is really use for that back part.
[05:11:59] <Connor> I dunno, I'm still up in the air about it.
[05:12:54] <jdhNC> how fast are you cutting the pvc?
[05:13:11] <Connor> 1500RPM.. 30 or So IPM.
[05:13:20] <jdhNC> .25 deep?
[05:13:47] <Connor> To be honest.. I've done deeper and faster than that jogging.
[05:13:53] <Connor> like .5
[05:14:15] <jdhNC> no melting?
[05:14:23] <Connor> No. None.
[05:14:40] <jdhNC> do you know what size fuse is in your 7x offhand?
[05:14:42] <Connor> BTW, Do the math.. I have 1 done already.. and I'm planning on 5
[05:14:53] <jdhNC> hmm :)
[05:15:55] <jdhNC> and I was just going to hit you up for the gcode.
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[05:16:11] <jdhNC> geez... after 1am again.
[05:16:13] <Loetmichel> mornin'
[05:16:17] <Connor> yup.
[05:16:20] <jdhNC> I have about 6 months of code to finish before labor day
[05:16:26] <Valen> if your melting plastic your not going fast enough
[05:20:06] <Connor> Not melting it.
[05:20:17] <Connor> Well.. I did once.. I had the mill running in reverse.. :)
[05:21:03] <Valen> that'll slow it down
[05:21:21] <roycroft> that must have smelled lovely
[05:21:24] <Connor> Oh it was all mucked up.. I couldn't figure out WTF was going on.
[05:25:12] <roycroft> back when i was a young lad i was working construction
[05:25:32] <roycroft> one day my boss put the blade on his skilsaw backwards and started smoking and burning everything he tried to cut
[05:25:45] <roycroft> he was getting all pissed off and could not figure out what was wrong
[05:25:54] <roycroft> i stupidly pointed out to him that the blade was on backwards
[05:26:00] <roycroft> and lost my job
[05:26:51] <Connor> Well, he wasn't a very good boss.
[05:27:00] <roycroft> no, he was not
[05:27:08] <roycroft> it's not something i regret
[05:27:10] <Connor> and I don't think you stupidly pointed it out.
[05:27:20] <roycroft> it didn't seem stupid at the time
[05:27:24] <roycroft> until he fired me :)
[05:27:43] <roycroft> i was pretty matter-of-fact about it too
[05:27:50] <roycroft> no rubbing it in his face or anything
[05:28:08] <roycroft> just "i think your sawblade is on backwards"
[05:28:36] <Connor> What an Ass.
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[05:29:53] <Connor> jdhNC: So, You need to help me figure out engraving..
[05:30:22] * roycroft will be doing some engraving as soon as he has his mill converted, and so will be paying attention
[05:30:37] <Connor> I want to engrave G0704 on the backs of these things in Arial using a V-bit. All the ways I've found to do it.. ends up tracing the lettering.. I just need it to do center stroke...
[05:31:27] <jymmm> Connor: you need to use single stroke fonts for that
[05:31:30] <Connor> Someone suggest a program last night.. and I looked at it.. but, couldn't make heads or tails on how to install it.. was on github.. and I tried to install it, and it kept complaining about a dependency...that I couldn't rack down.
[05:32:25] <Connor> All I have is the standard linux fonts plus a few extra MS font's that I found.. They all looked single stroke to me.. but.. guess not..
[05:32:43] <jymmm> google it
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[06:52:31] <DJ9DJ> moin
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[06:52:48] <jymmm> ug
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[07:29:20] <awallin> hmm http://area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/22246/personal-manufacturing
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[08:25:00] <jonand> Ok, I searched but found no clue: When I try to Home the axis/sim I get the error message "cannot home while shared home switch is closed"
[08:25:22] <jonand> how do I open the "shared home switch" in the simulator?
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[08:45:42] <awallin> jonand: simulated_home.hal seems to have hard-coded numbers for where the home-position is (I'm looking at sim/axis_mm)
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[08:49:55] <jonand> awallin: when I try to run a demo program I get the error message saying that the device is not homed. When I try to home I get the home switch not closed error message. It is the millimeter sim I tried, I'll try some others too.
[08:54:22] <awallin> configs/sim/axis/simulated_home.hal should have the home position... not sure what to do if the machine refuses to move off the switch. can you jog or MDI to a position where the home-switch is not closed? (put a halmeter on the home-switch to see the state)
[08:59:02] <jonand> ok, it works in the inch version
[08:59:26] <jonand> so something strange in the mm version. time for the yankees to adopt to the rest of the world.. :)
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[10:51:53] <jdhNC> Connor: fengrave or ttt. There are free single stroke hershey fonts
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[11:34:23] <mrsun> hmm, a concave radius turning tool ... i need that ... but how to make one =)
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[11:46:37] <archivist> a peg around which you rotate a tool by hand (long lever)
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[11:48:15] <jthornton> it would be interesting to come up with one that has an adjustable radius
[11:52:22] <archivist> Im trying to remember what I did for http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2005/2005_03_21_cooper/P3210810.JPG
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[11:52:47] <archivist> no cnc at work when I made that ball and its surround
[11:53:35] <jthornton> that's one hairy clock!
[11:53:39] <mrsun> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwGLL7cMdHk could be a design, just make another tool that extends over the center point insted
[11:54:02] <archivist> I remember now, turned a couple of disks as formers and hand turned to the former
[11:56:07] <archivist> hand turning with a graver is easier that it first looks
[11:58:54] <mrsun> hmm, peg ... that isnt to bad an idea either ... make something that fits in the tool holder, with a peg and a locking nut, so i can turn over the center ... tho then its not adjustable in radius ... :/
[12:01:05] <archivist> effectively his peg is below
[12:03:49] <archivist> his vertical tool post needs modding so a tool can go past centre
[12:04:34] <archivist> and into a concave area it has cut
[12:06:24] <archivist> his slot becomes a cross slide with something like a boring tool holder on the post so it can be inside or out
[12:08:53] <archivist> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbvOb-tTNyc&feature=related
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[12:32:30] <jymmm> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cO8vHT3Yhs&feature=endscreen&NR=1
[12:33:15] <jymmm> archivist: combine those two together =)
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[12:48:10] <jthornton> interesting examples of work holding
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[12:57:35] <jymmm> I'll be expecting videos of your turning attachments by Friday =)
[12:59:21] <jdhNC> I coudl use a collection of good examples of work holding.
[13:00:47] <jymmm> jdhNC: Videos of CrazyGlue and Duct Tape? there's not a whole lot of action =)
[13:02:25] <jymmm> Does anyone do home brew type metal forming/shaping? Like SS pot/pan type stuff?
[13:03:19] <jymmm> 10 ton press type I mean
[13:03:57] <jymmm> or is that just unheard of in the hobbiest world
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[13:11:20] <mrsun> gah my lathe is to freakin small
[13:11:40] <mrsun> if it was burnable iw ould burn the fucking thing :/
[13:11:57] <jdhNC> send it to me
[13:12:38] <jymmm> mrsun: Potasium Nitrate + Coal + Sulfur
[13:13:13] <jymmm> jthornton: DUDE!
[13:13:35] <jymmm> jthornton: 1" of fuse... FUCK ME!
[13:14:24] <jymmm> jthornton: Even held in place with a rock, the shit took off like a rocket across the yard!!!
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[13:20:16] <syyl> i did some bending and forming dies for small batches of work, jymmm
[13:21:01] <jymmm> syyl: What were they used in? Just a shop press?
[13:21:40] <syyl> wait, must look up the english term
[13:21:51] <syyl> knuckle joint press
[13:22:12] <syyl> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/24396704/pub/2011-04-12_18-45-56_958.jpg
[13:22:23] <jymmm> ah
[13:22:35] <jymmm> you have pics of the dies and the results?
[13:22:38] <syyl> for heavier work i use a 5t hydraulic
[13:22:53] <syyl> not in my reach
[13:22:57] <jymmm> k
[13:23:01] <jdhNC> looks like an arbor press with an offset arm?
[13:23:22] <syyl> an arbor press has a rack/pinion
[13:23:30] <syyl> and way more stroke
[13:24:21] <syyl> that one makes only..about 40mm
[13:24:35] <mrsun> syyl, nice press =)
[13:24:45] <syyl> thanks :D
[13:24:54] <syyl> costs hell of a fortune when bought new
[13:24:55] <mrsun> gah need to make a gear guard for the lathe, but i even fail at that
[13:25:00] <mrsun> I NEED FUCKING ROOM
[13:25:01] <syyl> 1200eur in the catalog...
[13:25:16] <jymmm> mrsun: ceiling is available
[13:26:02] <syyl> but i will make some bending stuff for that press soon, jymmm
[13:26:14] <syyl> v-shaped for small sheet metal work
[13:26:29] <mrsun> nah a new lathe, with real gearbox .. that will be my next buy ... this freakin toy is useless :P
[13:26:51] <syyl> and a punch/die set for holes in sheet metal
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[13:28:48] <jymmm> cool
[13:29:41] <syyl> only small stuff, as i am not very much in that whole fabrication and sheet metal blaa
[13:29:51] <syyl> hate sheet metal :P
[13:30:03] <jymmm> Well, could be thin walled copper or brass too
[13:30:13] <syyl> jep
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[13:30:37] <syyl> but why bother with sheet stock, when one can machine it from solid ;)
[13:30:56] <jymmm> syyl: Have you seen the price of copper lately?
[13:31:04] <syyl> try to avoid it
[13:31:08] <jymmm> heh
[13:31:25] <syyl> i do a lot of copper machining at work
[13:31:33] <syyl> but not privat
[13:31:56] <syyl> ah wait, i have photos of one bending tool i made at work
[13:32:15] <syyl> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/24396704/QMTL2/2011-10-27_14-13-11_826.jpg
[13:32:21] <syyl> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/24396704/QMTL2/2011-10-27_13-59-06_599.jpg
[13:32:30] <syyl> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/24396704/QMTL2/2011-10-27_14-21-25_988.jpg
[13:32:37] <syyl> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/24396704/QMTL2/2011-10-27_14-46-37_207.jpg
[13:33:02] <jymmm> battery/weldering terminal?
[13:33:19] <syyl> terminal for a large breaker
[13:33:23] <jymmm> ah
[13:33:47] <syyl> prototype work, made 10 or so
[13:33:55] <syyl> worked very good
[13:34:02] <jymmm> thats the only time I ever see that type of bend =)
[13:34:15] <syyl> tolerances after bending where better than 0,05mm
[13:34:29] <syyl> i was a bit suprised
[13:34:42] <syyl> there was almost no springing back
[13:34:46] <jymmm> and one screw does all the ebnding?
[13:35:04] <syyl> naa
[13:35:04] <jymmm> bending
[13:35:21] <syyl> i droped it in the big vice of the millign machine
[13:35:26] <syyl> and pressed it there
[13:35:30] <jymmm> oh, heh
[13:36:16] <syyl> the four screws hold the part so it dont slip out while bending
[13:36:26] <syyl> and the bending die rides on that two dowel pins
[13:37:19] <syyl> for some reason we dont have a big press in the shop Oo
[13:39:36] <jymmm> those bastards!
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[13:48:35] <jymmm> Can you guys think of any solid object that is INSERTED (not wrapped around) into a solid tube type container from a production/packaging line perspective?
[13:49:37] <archivist> syyl, also known as toggle press
[13:50:11] <syyl> thanks, i will try to remember that word the next time :)
[13:51:26] <archivist> never seen an adjustable one like that though
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[14:09:04] <jthornton> syyl, nice work
[14:11:08] <jymmm> jthornton: I came up with an idea =)
[14:12:01] <jymmm> jthornton: 1" fuse pieces + 1/8" brass tubing + NiChrome == RC Helicopter rocket launcher =)
[14:12:15] <archivist> syyl, next a two stage tool so the clamping is in the tool action instead of screws :)
[14:12:59] <jthornton> jymmm, just use tannerite
[14:14:13] <jdhNC> jymm: cold drawn cylinders are made by INSERTING a solid ram into a cylindrical piece of metal
[14:14:29] <archivist> computer decommissioning with tannerite http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laZGMa4O2X4
[14:14:32] <jdhNC> but, I don't really know what you were asking.
[14:14:47] <jymmm> jdhNC: packaging solution =)
[14:16:04] <jdhNC> I was going with the 'production' in front of that.
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[14:21:15] <jymmm> jthornton: Eh, just big boom. No streak of sparks flying through the air =)
[14:21:28] <Tom_itx> mmm finally got power back
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[14:29:27] <Tom_itx> logger[mah]
[14:29:27] <logger[mah]> Tom_itx: Log stored at http://linuxcnc.mah.priv.at/irc/%23linuxcnc/2012-05-31.html
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[15:41:01] <jepler> oh my. http://hackaday.com/2012/05/31/the-biggest-cnc-machine-can-build-a-house/
[15:59:51] <ScribbleJ> Except it can't really build a house any more than a much smaller CNC machine, since you'll still have to do it in parts to get the internal voids a house is defined by.
[15:59:59] <ScribbleJ> Not much of a house when it's solid inside!
[16:00:44] <syyl> and made of foam
[16:00:46] <syyl> ..
[16:03:33] <djdelorie> it says it has an extruder option...
[16:03:50] <jdhNC> and it is run by an arduino
[16:03:53] <ScribbleJ> hahaha
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[16:05:45] <jdhNC> anyone have or use an X2?
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[16:39:03] <joe9> what is the name/technical term for the nut that goes into the t-slot (not a t-slot nut). the nut is just a rectangular piece that I slots into the t-slot. I checked the T-slot nuts and they have a neck.
[16:39:07] <joe9> this one does not have the neck.
[16:39:28] <joe9> it came with the taig and I find it pretty useful to thread the nuts into it.
[16:39:44] <Connor> Square nut ?
[16:39:52] <cpresser> joe9: german word is 'nutenstein'. cant tell you more :/
[16:41:04] <joe9> the shape is not square it is 1inch x 0.5inch
[16:41:19] <joe9> it does look like the "square nut" though.
[16:41:22] <Connor> rectangle nuts? P)
[16:41:51] <jdhNC> http://www.hightechsystemsllc.com/pt_nuts.html
[16:42:00] <jdhNC> like that, except square corners?
[16:42:21] <Connor> They're still called T nuts.. regardless if they have the shoulder or not I believe.
[16:43:08] <Connor> joe9: and what are you doing with it ?
[16:43:22] <cpresser> i like those, since you can 'clip' them in from above: http://www.smt-montagetechnik.de/img/3D/S205NSOS5.jpg
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[16:44:23] <jdhNC> connor: My x2 came with a 36mm wrench that fits the spindle on the G704 perfectly. Doesn't seem to fit anything on the X2
[16:44:24] <joe9> cpresser: how do these work? more pics, please?
[16:45:02] <cpresser> joe9: google for 'item nutenstein'
[16:45:08] <joe9> connor: thanks.
[16:45:15] <joe9> cpresser: thanks.
[16:45:28] <Connor> jdhNC: Well.. heck.. I want one. :)
[16:46:07] <jdhNC> me too!
[16:47:44] <Connor> I like running the EMC simulator on my ubutnu desktop... makes it easy to check stuff out.
[16:48:59] <ScribbleJ> Can you do that without having an rtai kernel?
[16:49:19] <Connor> yup. Because, your not driving hardware.
[16:49:24] <jdhNC> load the sim version
[16:56:53] <joe9> is that the same as these http://www.mcmaster.com/#extrusion-nuts/=hrxd9o
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[16:58:47] <Connor> YES.
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[16:59:13] <joe9> connor: was the "YES" for me?
[16:59:20] <Connor> joe9: Yes. :)
[16:59:34] <Connor> Those are T-nuts used for T-Slot extrusion.
[16:59:43] <Connor> again, what are you using them for ?
[17:00:48] <joe9> connor, I want to hold my fixture down. The fixture has 6 slots through which the #10-32 nut can go through.
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[17:03:28] <joe9> sorry about that. some unknown keyboard issue that prevents me from typing anything into the terminal.
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[17:03:38] <joe9> connor: does that make sense?
[17:04:15] <Connor> yea, your using them as true nuts, not as t-nuts ? or you still using them in the t-slots?
[17:05:32] <joe9> yes, the taig table has slots, where the nuts go into.
[17:05:35] <ScribbleJ> Hey, this isn't completely related, but my router has a big T-slot bed... any great ideas of how to clamp workpeices?
[17:05:54] <Connor> Why not use the normal T-nuts with shoulders ?
[17:06:22] <ScribbleJ> Well, a normal t-nut, the bolt goes down into the slot,s o to tighten it down isn't possible; it'll bottom out
[17:06:25] <jdhNC> Scrib: depends on material and if you are cutting inside/outside. Do you have precise enough Z to not cut the table?
[17:06:25] <joe9> connor: i am not sure if they fit the slot. will have to check on that.
[17:06:50] <ScribbleJ> jdhNC, I don't really know yet, but I'm going to go with 'no' jus tto be safe. :)
[17:07:05] <Connor> joe9: T-Slot nuts come in different sizes.. I think they have them that'll fit you machine.
[17:07:10] <ScribbleJ> How do people handle that? Some sacrifical wood on the table first, workpeice on top?
[17:07:17] <jdhNC> Scrib: my mill clamp set t-nuts have the bottom thread deformed so they don't hit the bottom
[17:07:33] <jdhNC> you use the nuts with studs, then nuts on top
[17:07:39] <joe9> ScribbleJ: there are "partially formed T-nuts" for that.
[17:07:42] <ScribbleJ> Oh, ok.. hrm.
[17:08:00] <jdhNC> I put MDF on my router t-table
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[17:08:37] <IchGuckLive> hi all ?
[17:08:40] <jdhNC> then clamp the material or screw the material or whatever works
[17:09:05] <ScribbleJ> That sounds good.
[17:09:18] <ScribbleJ> My current problem is getting Powermill to output gcode that LinuxCNC likes.
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[17:09:59] <IchGuckLive> powermill has a fanuc 11M that linuxcnc likes
[17:10:06] <Connor> What is powermill ?
[17:10:08] <ScribbleJ> Oh, good, thank you
[17:10:14] <ScribbleJ> That's a great tip, I'll try it, IchGuckLive
[17:10:23] <jdhNC> expensive CAM
[17:10:25] <Connor> I use CamBam
[17:10:26] <ScribbleJ> Connor, some vastly overpriced cam software.
[17:10:48] <ScribbleJ> I probably won't use it for long, I'm only using it now because my router came with it.
[17:10:51] <Connor> oh, jdhNC: f-engrave looks like what I need.
[17:10:52] <ScribbleJ> Well, with a pirated version of it
[17:10:56] <ScribbleJ> So seems like a place to start. Heh
[17:11:41] <jdhNC> connor: it works and is simple (and free)
[17:11:59] <Connor> Yea, I copied in Arial into it's font directory and it handled it out.
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[17:12:03] <Connor> er.r handled it okay
[17:12:15] <jdhNC> it single stroked it?
[17:12:15] <IchGuckLive> ScribbleJ: search for "pm-post" this creats you the EMC post you like
[17:12:27] <Connor> Yea, it has a V-Carve setting now.
[17:12:46] <jdhNC> http://www.deskam.com/deskengrave.html
[17:12:54] <jdhNC> similar for windows. It's free also
[17:13:15] <Connor> they have F-Engrave for windows too... which is what I'm using ATM..
[17:13:18] <IchGuckLive> ScribbleJ: http://www.cnczone.com/forums/screen_layouts_post_processors_misc/80050-post_processor_powermill_mach3.html
[17:13:27] <Connor> Gonna try to get it running with under ubnuntu
[17:13:50] <jdhNC> it's just python, should work as is.
[17:14:33] <ScribbleJ> IchGuckLive, I'm not sure if pmpost is in the version of Powermill I'm trying here.
[17:15:34] <IchGuckLive> if you percased a real version its in
[17:15:55] <ScribbleJ> No, I didn't. My router came with a pirated version, I was just explaining that that's why I'm using it at all.
[17:16:10] <Connor> jdhNC: doesn't look to have ttf support in linux ?
[17:16:19] <ScribbleJ> I'm just trying to get something to work after pycam and heekcnc both failed badly for me.
[17:17:54] <ScribbleJ> I can't even find a price for Powermill online so I'm sure it's way out of my software budget.
[17:18:05] <jdhNC> connor: you can convert TTF's to CXF's
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[17:18:17] <Connor> Got it.
[17:18:29] <Connor> had to compile the ttf2cxf stream program
[17:19:09] <IchGuckLive> ScribbleJ: why did heekscad/cnc faild on you
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[17:19:36] <Connor> Wonder if there is a way to get this integrated into Axis ?
[17:19:43] <ScribbleJ> IchGuckLive, the last version in the git repo crashes left and right... maybe I'll try a much older version on my linuxcnc box at some point.
[17:20:01] <Connor> via ngcgui, or as a filter or something ?
[17:20:13] <ScribbleJ> I've heard a lot of recommendations for cambam, which is reasonably priced... if I fail to find some working open source I might go for that.
[17:20:35] <jdhNC> connor: change it to spew the gcode to stdout and it should work in axis
[17:20:57] <IchGuckLive> ScribbleJ: whats you main goal for g-code §D Engave or drilling
[17:21:22] <Connor> ScribbleJ: I've looked and looked, and not found anything worth a flip for CAM that's Open Source. CamBam is VERY easy to use.. and very well priced.
[17:21:23] <ScribbleJ> Engrave - I can write drilling gcode by hand, but following a complex contour is a different matter.
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[17:21:52] <jdhNC> qcad+dxf2gcode?
[17:22:01] <mrsun> how to test if something is cast aluminium or magnesium ?
[17:22:15] <alex4nder-> set it on fire
[17:22:22] <alex4nder-> you'll know right away.
[17:22:44] <mrsun> alex4nder-, we burned it with oxy acetylen and it didnt ignite atleast :P
[17:23:13] <theorbtwo> In that case, I'm going for Al. Magnesium is *bright*.
[17:23:29] <ScribbleJ> jdhNC, is that for me? qcad + dxf2gcode?
[17:23:38] <jdhNC> yes
[17:23:49] <jdhNC> I like draftsight + cut2d though
[17:23:51] <ScribbleJ> That's going to be 2d. When I say engraving, I mean like an STL, 3D.
[17:24:19] <ScribbleJ> (Also, Qcad is old and they suck, LibreCAD is the current open source fork)
[17:24:32] <jdhNC> how much 3dness
[17:24:49] <ScribbleJ> Possibly lots. I'd like to mill reprap parts, for example.
[17:26:12] <jdhNC> like undercuts? voids in Z? or just different height Z?
[17:27:28] <ScribbleJ> That's a good question - I'm just learning how all this is done. So I doubt that I can reasonably expect to cut under material; I do not have a 5th axis.
[17:27:43] <ScribbleJ> On the other hand, I do have a 4th axis and I suppose I could use that for some serious fun if I had the right toolchain.
[17:29:38] <jdhNC> he will sell that 4th axis complete for $400
[17:30:16] <ScribbleJ> Who will what now?
[17:30:37] <jdhNC> your router seller will sell just the 4th axis
[17:30:42] <ScribbleJ> Oh.!
[17:31:06] <jdhNC> motor/harmonic drive/rotary/etc $400
[17:31:21] <ScribbleJ> Is that a good deal? I haven't looked at them separately.
[17:31:33] <jdhNC> it is with a harmonic drive, if it really is.
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[17:47:06] <ktchk> there is one on the web see http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=9633327458
[17:50:18] <IchGuckLive> ktchk: yes thst funy parts
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[17:51:27] <jdhNC> is there an 'english' button on ther eanywhere?
[17:51:50] <ktchk> I have one it is 50 times gear or 100 times, but looks like a used parts from japan
[17:52:04] <ktchk> Try google translate
[17:54:06] <jdhNC> that's pretty funny anyway.
[17:55:02] <ktchk> cheap ha!
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[17:56:17] <archivist> the shaft size the chuck is mounted on is out of proportion
[17:57:20] <ktchk> the gear limited the chuck
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[18:00:48] <ktchk> I ask them and they told me that gears are from japan factory robots
[18:01:03] <IchGuckLive> 170 euros is fine for this
[18:01:25] <ktchk> euro no chinese yen
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[18:02:17] <ktchk> 7yen to 1us
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[18:05:04] <IchGuckLive> ktchk: 1300 yuan
[18:05:12] <IchGuckLive> yes is japanese
[18:05:18] <IchGuckLive> yen
[18:05:32] <ktchk> chinese yen also
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[18:07:55] <IchGuckLive> HKD
[18:07:55] -!- Loetmichel has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
[18:08:11] <ktchk> close arround 200 us
[18:08:30] <IchGuckLive> _abc_: when you are apearing motioncontrol is going did you ask him alot
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[18:09:22] <IchGuckLive> ktchk: the stepper is 40USD the clamb is 38USD and the gearbox is ready made 50USD
[18:09:46] <_abc_> IchGuckLive: sorry?
[18:10:11] <_abc_> IchGuckLive: what do you mean?! That motioncontrol left because I joined?!
[18:10:14] <IchGuckLive> B) joking around
[18:10:26] * _abc_ kennt keinen solchen Spaß
[18:10:36] <IchGuckLive> oh germany
[18:10:39] <Connor> Is their a way to add a button or tab or something to launch a filter program in axis ?
[18:10:40] <_abc_> Nein
[18:10:44] <IchGuckLive> Ramstein Hier
[18:10:54] <_abc_> Anderswo Hier
[18:11:36] <IchGuckLive> ok im off by have a nice day
[18:11:40] <DJ9DJ_> bye
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[18:11:50] <_abc_> Now look who's leaving when I join >:)
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[18:24:52] <Connor> okay, so anyway to make a button that will launch a gcode or .py file ?
[18:25:17] <Connor> same as if you were to goto file, open ?
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[18:35:22] <andypugh> A specific file? (says he, stalling for time)
[18:39:57] <andypugh> I think there might be a GladeVCP button specifically for the job, thinking about it. An Action Widget
[18:43:50] <ScribbleJ> Oho
[18:43:54] <ScribbleJ> I think IckGuck was right
[18:44:02] <ScribbleJ> This fanuc11m gcode looks nice at a glance.
[18:48:40] <Tom_itx> are we making headway today?
[18:49:11] <Connor> Yea, I have F-engrave working.. I just want to have a button I can click on to bring it up..like a shortcut, instead of having to go file/open in Axis.
[18:49:22] <Tom_itx> so make one
[18:51:23] <Connor> So, how do you make one? :)
[18:52:44] <Tom_itx> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html/hal/pyvcp.html
[18:53:50] <Connor> I know how to make buttons in pyvcp, just not the action to open a file..
[18:55:36] <andypugh> Possibly http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html/gui/gladevcp.html#_action_widgets_reference
[18:59:25] <puff> Anybody familiar with the fireball v90?
[19:00:19] <andypugh> Only in passing.
[19:00:41] <andypugh> But I think I have seen some owners on here
[19:01:15] <puff> andypugh: Yeah, I've heard that and I keep poking my head in here, but I always get the same answer.
[19:01:28] <puff> andypugh: Trying to make a decision and buy one.
[19:02:19] <jdhNC> buy one, you can tell us.
[19:02:29] <andypugh> Ah, the base price includes nothing..
[19:03:42] <andypugh> Have you searched the forum? There seem to be several mentions there http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/component/kunena/?func=search
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[19:03:57] <ScribbleJ> puff, why that one in particular?
[19:04:16] <andypugh> It's got nice yellow motors.
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[19:04:41] <ScribbleJ> Well, that is a point its favor, I'll admit.
[19:06:14] <andypugh> Connor: I just looked, GladeVCP has a predefined button for loading a file, optionally with a fixed filename.
[19:06:26] <Connor> Eh? okay.
[19:06:49] <Connor> I don't think I've used GladeVCP yet.. just pyvcp
[19:07:02] <jdhNC> the black parts of the V90 are painted MDF
[19:07:10] <andypugh> GladeVCP is a lot prettier, and you create the GUI with a GUI
[19:07:22] <ScribbleJ> MDF, really?
[19:07:43] <ScribbleJ> Huh, I guess so. That's a bit lame.
[19:07:46] <andypugh> PyVCP is almost, but not quite. deprecated as GladeVCP offers so much more.
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[19:10:10] <jthornton> and is so much more complicated...
[19:11:50] <andypugh> I am not sure. I never figured out widget placement in PyVCP.
[19:12:08] <andypugh> And in PyVCP you have to guess the attribute names.
[19:12:12] <_abc_> lol
[19:12:30] <_abc_> Pythin is... twisted :)
[19:12:35] <_abc_> *Python even
[19:13:10] <jthornton> there has to be some fun in everything
[19:14:14] <_abc_> the fun consists in not being on #python but on #linuxcnc
[19:15:59] <andypugh> I am unable to type Pythin too.
[19:16:14] <andypugh> Every single time it comes out with an I in the middle.
[19:16:14] <_abc_> Close your eyes when you type the o
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[19:18:20] <jymmm> andypugh: you mean pythong
[19:20:43] <puff> ScribbleJ: No particular reason, it seems to have good reviews, it's been recommended to me by a couple different people, it's been around a while and hasn't been reported to blow up or anything, and it's a good entry-level price point.
[19:21:25] <puff> ScribbleJ: One key factor is that I've been getting into furniture making and I hope to use this for that purpose (since it costs equiv to several good power tools...).
[19:22:15] <jdhNC> what kind of furniture?
[19:22:48] <Connor> AttributeError: 'EMC_Action_Open' object has no attribute '_button'
[19:23:57] <ScribbleJ> puff, that is a good bet, but isn't it a little small?
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[19:24:07] <ScribbleJ> It's like 2'x2' no?
[19:24:35] <ScribbleJ> i'm not a furnituremaker so I'm not sure what kind of space you'd need for that.
[19:24:42] <jdhNC> 12x18
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[19:38:22] <andypugh> Connor: Hmm, yes.
[19:38:32] <andypugh> I get the same thing.
[19:38:45] <Connor> Okay, so it's not my imagination.
[19:39:42] <Connor> Of course, I'll have a even bigger issue.. I'll have to convert my pypvc into glade.. but.. that's later.
[19:39:56] <andypugh> Did you load the panel in the linuxcnc context?
[19:40:25] <andypugh> The reason I ask is that I just tried it with the e-stop widget and got "no attribute 'linuxcnc'
[19:40:31] <Connor> GLADEVCP= /home/billy/linuxcnc/configs/sim/axis/fengrave.ui
[19:40:41] <Connor> That what your talking about ?
[19:41:56] <jdhNC> you can use gladevcp and pvcp at the same time can't you?
[19:42:47] <andypugh> Connor. Yes
[19:43:00] <Connor> I have that under the [DISPLAY] section
[19:43:27] <andypugh> Could be a bug
[19:43:39] <andypugh> Could be expected. I don't kknow
[19:44:31] <Connor> okay, estop button worked.
[19:44:40] <Connor> but file load didn't.. let me look at it..
[19:47:29] <andypugh> You might need psha
[19:47:38] <Connor> psha ?
[19:48:10] <andypugh> Author of PyVCP
[19:48:16] <Connor> Ah
[19:48:17] <andypugh> Sorry, GladeVCP
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[20:17:04] <mrsun> delrin, is it wear resistant? :)
[20:17:16] <andypugh> Very
[20:17:17] <mrsun> say delrin against steel, rolling over it ... would that be better then steel to steel ? :)
[20:17:25] <andypugh> quieter
[20:17:36] <mrsun> and the steel wouldnt wear either i guess =)
[20:18:17] <andypugh> Connor: It looks closer if you delete _button from line 184 of filechooser.py. Still no-go though
[20:19:01] <Connor> wonder if it's a stub action ?
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[20:20:38] <andypugh> It looks like it ought to work
[20:20:51] <andypugh> There is a load of code in that file
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[20:22:40] <paideia> so linuxcnc uses the RS274/NGC standard, where is it defined?
[20:23:17] <andypugh> Largely in the LinuxCNC docs.
[20:23:25] <alex4nder-> you mean, where is the standard defined?
[20:23:31] <paideia> yes
[20:23:38] <alex4nder-> in RS-274
[20:23:52] <andypugh> It isn't though, really
[20:23:53] <paideia> is that an iso standard?
[20:23:55] <alex4nder-> with obvious tweaks
[20:24:00] <alex4nder-> paideia: EIA
[20:24:14] <alex4nder-> andypugh: well, that's the beauty of standards
[20:24:18] <alex4nder-> so many to choose from
[20:24:33] <jthornton> paideia, LinuxCNC is "based" on the RS274/NGC
[20:24:37] <paideia> I just started reading about this
[20:24:51] <paideia> and realized indeed that there are many variations
[20:25:06] <alex4nder-> it's more like a guideline really
[20:25:13] <Connor> andypugh: COuld it require the HAL Python filechooser button ?
[20:25:14] <jdhNC> reading linuxcnc docs would probably be more useful than eia rs274 docs
[20:25:21] <paideia> so I should try to stick to what is written at http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html/gcode/overview.html ?
[20:25:25] <alex4nder-> yes
[20:25:35] <alex4nder-> stick to what your environment actually supports
[20:25:42] <alex4nder-> unless you're writing a Gerber viewer.
[20:25:58] <paideia> I'm building a cnc
[20:26:03] <paideia> I'll be using linuxcnc
[20:26:18] <paideia> and I'm trying to understand the gcode language
[20:26:25] <alex4nder-> right, which means you understand what LinuxCNC does
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[20:27:04] <andypugh> Connor: I really have no idea. I just created a button, then added the filechooser widget to to the UI, and linked the button action to the action widget. It clears runs code in filechooser.py because it raises the error
[20:27:20] <Connor> ok.
[20:27:25] <Connor> I'll check with psha when I see him.
[20:27:47] <Connor> I just though there was a easy way to hit a button and have it autoload a gcode file or .py file. :)
[20:27:57] <paideia> linuxcnc takes the gcode and controls the axes of a cnc machine
[20:28:45] <alex4nder-> yes.
[20:28:47] <paideia> so normally
[20:29:04] <paideia> what's the pipeline, lets say, if you're designing a simple pcb
[20:29:35] <andypugh> paideia: http://www.isd.mel.nist.gov/documents/kramer/RS274NGC_3.ps
[20:29:37] <paideia> there seems to be a few different tools to design
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[20:30:02] <andypugh> However, they wrote that while writing EMC, so I wouldn't take it as an enforceable standard
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[20:30:14] <alex4nder-> paideia: there are infinite tools to design this stuff
[20:30:25] <alex4nder-> at the end of the day, you're moving some point around a table
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[20:30:45] <paideia> alex4nder-, that's what I'm realizing, so I'm asking for some pointers here
[20:30:46] <andypugh> The best source of info on LinuxCNC G-code is http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html/gcode.html
[20:31:23] <delkin> I generated a .ngc file with pcb2gcode from an image file. How can I visualize the .ngc file?
[20:31:32] <paideia> andypugh, thanks, I was afraid of getting lost with the official standard and there could be variations anyway
[20:31:53] <jymmm> paideia: CAD != CAM != Controller (LinuxCNC), they are three different things
[20:32:13] <alex4nder-> paideia: you load that ngc file into linuxcnc, and see what it thinks it should do with it
[20:32:21] <alex4nder-> you may get a surprise
[20:32:22] <andypugh> delkin: The LinuxCNC preview is one way
[20:32:24] <alex4nder-> you might get a valid PCB
[20:34:10] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[20:34:11] <paideia> jymmm, but the controller expects instructions following some standard right? the gcode RS274/NGC.
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[20:35:01] <andypugh> There is not that much variation between G-codes. If it is just G0, G1, G2 G3 S M6 et
[20:35:22] <paideia> ok, good to know
[20:36:58] <paideia> is it not there a software that simulates the gcode instructions, like a virtual emulator of the linuxcnc controller? for debugging purposes, to make sure the gcode got generated exactly as desired?
[20:37:03] <delkin> andypugh: Do I have to install the LinuxCNC to be able to use the viewer? Is it possible to install it independently?
[20:37:46] <andypugh> Technically it is possible to use the GladVCP Gremlin widget, I think
[20:40:50] <paideia> andypugh, was that an answer to delkin's or my question?
[20:40:51] <andypugh> Try a google search for "G-code viewer" there seem to be several
[20:41:13] <andypugh> Both, I guess
[20:41:36] <paideia> andypugh, don't you personally use such a tool?
[20:41:44] <andypugh> But it is also possible to install LinuxCNC as a simulator. That way you know for sure that it will work
[20:41:54] <andypugh> No, I just run the code in a VM
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[20:42:24] <paideia> andypugh, so you have linuxcnc installed on a VM
[20:42:31] <andypugh> also, this might sound odd, but I am far too busy building machines and hacking LinuxCNC drivers to make much stuff.
[20:42:32] <jonand> delkin: download and run linuxcnc in a virtualbox VM
[20:42:35] <paideia> and then you can just simulate
[20:42:40] <andypugh> Yes
[20:42:54] <paideia> :)
[20:43:04] <jonand> delkin: and run axis/sim on your pcb.ngc
[20:44:33] <andypugh> Has anyone got a Raspberry Pi yet?
[20:44:50] <delkin> jonand: Good idea. By the way, LinuxCNC should run in a VM for simulation purpose only? Or is it ok to run it with hardware too?
[20:44:55] * jymmm lol @ andypugh
[20:44:58] <alex4nder-> haha
[20:44:59] <delkin> andypugh: not yet
[20:45:07] <delkin> :)
[20:45:12] <paideia> andypugh, do you actually belong to a fablab?
[20:45:14] <andypugh> Several of my friends are enthusing about theirs.
[20:45:15] <jymmm> andypugh: you really think it'll work?
[20:45:27] <jonand> delkin: you will get flaky realtime if you run a realtime guest system in a non-realtime host os...
[20:45:39] <andypugh> I am not sure it will work for LinuxCNC, no. But it looks like fun
[20:45:52] <jymmm> andypugh: ah, k
[20:45:56] <delkin> jonand: That's what I thought
[20:46:20] <andypugh> I actually run the full LiveCD install in a VM. It does complain about the latency, but so what?
[20:47:17] <andypugh> Max jitter 8,000,000 nS :-)
[20:47:29] <jonand> andypugh: me too. Had to turn off Vt-x, PAR and nested paging to get it working stable - the real time linux patches does not seem to play perfect with virtualbox
[20:47:54] <andypugh> I run VmWare Fusion on a Mac, no problems
[20:48:05] <jonand> but virtualbox-ose-guest-x11 makes works fine
[20:48:15] <jonand> how much is vmware?
[20:48:21] <andypugh> $49
[20:48:30] <andypugh> I just bought it 2 days ago.
[20:48:43] <jonand> nice, a lot cheaper than what I expected.
[20:48:56] <jonand> just playing around though so virtualbox is good enough for me
[20:48:58] <andypugh> The previous version I had wouldn't work with the new 64-bit Mac and OS
[20:49:47] <andypugh> I run Autodesk Inventor and Alibre in the VM, so it's worth $50 to me.
[21:00:37] <delkin> andypugh: Have you ever contributed for open source ecology?
[21:01:02] <andypugh> I don't understand the question
[21:01:57] <delkin> http://opensourceecology.org/wiki/Fanuc_Industrial_Robot I just found your name in this website.
[21:02:59] <andypugh> it's me, but I am just being quoted
[21:03:48] <paideia> well if you're developing the linuxcnc, I guess you're indirectly contributing to these open source hardware movements in a way
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[21:06:33] <andypugh> We were seeing quite a lot of marcin on this channel for a while.
[21:14:56] <ScribbleJ> Wait
[21:15:09] <ScribbleJ> Is there opens ource software that can easily drive a robot arm like that?
[21:15:19] <ScribbleJ> I mean, IK pathing stuff.
[21:16:13] <ScribbleJ> huh
[21:16:14] <andypugh> LinuxCNC?
[21:17:27] <ScribbleJ> "The docs are a little sparse" boy I'll say!
[21:17:28] <andypugh> LinuxCNC is designed to be able to control almost anything. http://www.airbnb.co.uk/rooms/271795
[21:18:03] <ScribbleJ> LinuxCNC controls that bed and breakfast?
[21:18:06] <ScribbleJ> I'm so confused.
[21:19:37] <ScribbleJ> http://linuxcnc.org/docview/html/motion/kinematics.html fascinating!
[21:19:54] <andypugh> Bother, wrong link
[21:20:04] <andypugh> http://youtu.be/G_UmhUjZhNo
[21:20:54] <ScribbleJ> You have to be kidding me.!
[21:21:02] <ScribbleJ> I did not know I could do that.
[21:22:16] <paideia> that's a very impressive machine
[21:23:28] <andypugh> It's a very cool machine. And actually EMC was originally written for a very similar thing by NIST. http://www.flickr.com/photos/usnistgov/5884929289/
[21:23:55] <ScribbleJ> Dang, I want that one!
[21:23:56] <ScribbleJ> Haa
[21:24:01] <ScribbleJ> Well, that's awesome.
[21:24:09] <paideia> geez
[21:24:30] <andypugh> I am not at all sure that that picture was taken when it says it was taken
[21:25:40] <ScribbleJ> I had just assumed EMC could only do whatit calls trivial kinematics.
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[21:26:22] <andypugh> It can do _anything_ But some things take a ground-up rewrite. :-)
[21:26:46] <ScribbleJ> Yes, an my axe is a router if you just replace the handle and the head with a cartesian robot and spindle.
[21:27:29] <andypugh> Indeded. And just like an axe, you can change anything you want
[21:27:39] <jymmm> ScribbleJ: WTF?! Kukri dude, kukuri, axes are so old skool!
[21:28:17] <jymmm> Can split, use as a draw knife, remove heads, clear brush, etc
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[21:28:45] <JT-Shop> look out
[21:32:47] <jymmm> JT-Shop: What else you gonna kill zombies with?
[21:33:10] <Tom_itx> jymmm, you didn't watch sons of guns did you?
[21:33:36] <jymmm> Tom_itx: which episode?
[21:33:44] <Tom_itx> the zombie one
[21:33:52] <jymmm> no, missed it
[21:34:21] <jymmm> Tom_itx: I doubt it was $20 USD though.
[21:36:19] <Tom_itx> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZT4e65vgePs
[21:36:24] <Tom_itx> i doubt it too
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[21:40:02] <andypugh> Blowing up the plane seems a shame
[21:40:26] <Tom_itx> hollywood props
[21:40:52] <Tom_itx> the film crew does all that and has to clean up the mess too
[21:40:53] <andypugh> Zombie killing "We are talking real world situations"
[21:41:01] <andypugh> OK, so I might watch the rest of that
[21:41:05] <Tom_itx> heh
[21:41:47] <jymmm> andypugh: There is another definition of "zombies" in that context.
[21:42:44] <andypugh> http://www.interbent.com/warning-zombies-ahead-road-signs-collection/
[21:42:59] <andypugh> (There were instructions how to hack the illuminated signs)
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[21:45:08] <jymmm> heh
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[21:50:36] <andypugh> Gun-nuts will enjoy David Weber's "Out of the Dark." though it is something of a promising SF novel ruined by "Vampire ex Machina"
[21:55:16] <jymmm> andypugh: I'm not a gun "nut" (per-se), but I actually prefer non-lethal weapons.
[21:55:24] <andypugh> The basic premise seems to be that everyone should have at least one Barratt rifle, in case of alien invasion
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[21:56:49] <jymmm> There is one city that I know of in the US that you are LEGALLY REQUIRED to have a firearm in the home.
[21:57:31] <jymmm> Except felons/psyhcs
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[21:58:09] <andypugh> I think that is the case in the Confoederatio Helvetica
[21:59:47] <jymmm> This town is kinda spread out, so the premise being if Sheriffs can't get there in a reasonable time, you do have some mehtod of protection from animals (2 or 4 legged =)
[22:01:01] <ScribbleJ> I find that extrordinarily difficult to believe.
[22:01:06] <jymmm> http://www.rense.com/general9/gunlaw.htm
[22:01:21] <ScribbleJ> Huh!
[22:01:52] <jymmm> drop in crime over 20 years has to say something.
[22:02:03] <ScribbleJ> Morton Grove is right by my office.
[22:02:05] <ScribbleJ> Bastards!
[22:02:11] <andypugh> Does it match the drop in population?
[22:02:43] <jymmm> andypugh: Actually INCREASED =)
[22:03:07] <jymmm> andypugh: doubled in ten years
[22:03:17] <jymmm> http://www.google.com/publicdata/explore?ds=kf7tgg1uo9ude_&met_y=population&idim=place:1343192&dl=en&hl=en&q=kennesaw,+ga+population
[22:03:53] <ScribbleJ> PRetty interesting, but obviously a law they don't intend to enforce - and couldn't.
[22:04:16] <ScribbleJ> I think I'm going to head to the garage with the intent of running my first real gcode on my router.
[22:04:25] <andypugh> Woohoo!
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[22:12:34] <dgarr> cradek: an update for 2.5 tooledit (display only some columns, column sorting, restore geometry, etc): http://www.panix.com/~dgarrett/stuff/tooledit_update.mbox
[22:14:03] <andypugh> The idea is that it looks at AXES?
[22:14:40] <dgarr> no
[22:16:21] <andypugh> I would have thought it made sense to scan the INI to see which columns are meaningful. But then I have only given it 10 seconds thought.
[22:18:22] <JT-Shop> did you add a close button?
[22:18:58] <andypugh> combined save, close. and reload would be nice. The current one is a bit annoying.
[22:20:49] <JT-Shop> I never knew what dismiss was, to abort the edit, I could leave the class...
[22:21:16] <JT-Shop> I hope we are talking about the tool table editor
[22:21:28] <andypugh> I have closed LinuxCNC to find 8 tool edit windows open.
[22:21:51] <JT-Shop> I click on the X I think...
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[22:23:58] * JT-Shop goes back to making threaded bushings inside and out without writing one line of G code
[22:24:11] * JT-Shop loves ngcgui
[22:29:33] <andypugh> I was just giving a friend a link to my parent's house (spending the weekend there) and I was reminded just how much we tend to build houses by piling rocks on top of each other. http://tinyurl.com/d46763f
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[22:34:46] <andypugh> That's nice, Google Streetview got a shot of the sign that the farmer put up, after dragging one too many trucks out of the dry stone walls: http://tinyurl.com/cy94ad5
[22:36:18] <jymmm> andypugh: piling rock houses?
[22:36:33] <andypugh> Yes, stone walls, stone roof.
[22:36:35] <jymmm> andypugh: Like one rock house built upon another rock house?
[22:37:09] <jymmm> andypugh: stone roof?
[22:37:22] <jymmm> andypugh: is there anything wrong with a stone house?
[22:37:33] <andypugh> No, They last for ever
[22:37:53] <jymmm> andypugh: mortar is used isn't it?
[22:38:12] <jymmm> air gaps, bugs, etc
[22:38:16] <andypugh> Stone roof: http://www.bodgesoc.org/Slaithwaite2/Front.JPG about 40 tons
[22:38:56] <Tom_itx> slippery when wet
[22:39:08] <jymmm> andypugh: is there 2x4 framing for inside? electricity, etc
[22:39:24] <andypugh> This house was actually built with clay as mortar. Though I don't know of any other building of that construction.
[22:39:41] <jymmm> or are these rural country hunting type cabins
[22:39:53] * djdelorie read "clay" and "mortar" and thought "claymore"
[22:40:13] <syyl> play more with claymore?
[22:40:28] <jymmm> djdelorie: Keep thinking along those lines, we've already hit fuses and guns so far
[22:40:39] <jymmm> djdelorie: oh and zombies too
[22:40:43] <andypugh> It might have been originally a hunting lodge when it was built (about 1440) but it is a house now.
[22:40:44] <andypugh> http://www.bodgesoc.org/Slaithwaite2/Hall3.JPG
[22:41:14] <andypugh> Full story" http://www.bodgesoc.org/slaithwaite.html
[22:41:18] <jymmm> andypugh: are stone houses commonplace?
[22:41:48] <jymmm> andypugh: as in some ppl still build them to this day
[22:41:54] <andypugh> In that area? All of them, even new-build.
[22:42:17] <jymmm> andypugh: but ONLY that one area?
[22:42:35] <jymmm> close to natural resources or something
[22:42:46] <andypugh> It's quite a big area :-)
[22:42:58] <jymmm> heh
[22:43:18] <andypugh> New-build, stone walls, slate roof: http://www.smartnewhomes.com/development/details/Millers_Way-Ben_Bailey_Homes_Ltd.aspx
[22:43:42] <jymmm> I kinda like the foam concrete poured walls, but that usually doens't go all the way up to the eves
[22:44:17] <andypugh> Where I live all the houses are brick, as Essex is made of mud. But in West Yorkshire they have lots of stone, so build with it. We really don't trust wood.
[22:44:50] <jymmm> andypugh: Not like you live in the DRYEST place in the world =)
[22:44:59] <JT-Shop> didn't you guys use up all the wood a long time ago?
[22:46:28] <andypugh> We are not sure that wood houses last more than 500 years, you see; http://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/paycockes/
[22:46:53] <jymmm> andypugh: petrified wood =)
[22:47:37] <andypugh> JT-Shop: Just zoom out the Googlemap links, we have plenty of trees still.
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[22:48:00] <andypugh> Our renovation of Slaithwaite uses 400 cubic feet of local oak.
[22:50:48] <andypugh> You know I said the roof was 40 tons? Eeek! http://www.bodgesoc.org/truss2.jpg
[22:51:24] <jymmm> and gawd help ya if you get termites!
[22:51:50] <JT-Shop> I assume if it falls down you don't feel a thing
[23:00:19] <andypugh> While I am at it, this is what my dad keeps in the lower level of the barn: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/lorjlRbUi9B2VQy0Cd0KcNMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink and https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/SFAzIAuhoS5cn2P71jfl5tMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
[23:01:42] <andypugh> Thats a power hacksaw, Colchester Triumph (mine) Kearns S-type HBM, Smart and Brown lathe, and a Churchill universal grinder (under the sheet)
[23:02:10] <andypugh> The Kearns is an especailly nice machine.
[23:02:58] <JT-Shop> nice iron
[23:05:04] <JT-Shop> andypugh: what is your thoughts on what the Samson spindle motor is bringing to the RPC?
[23:05:34] <andypugh> OOh, I forgot to mention the Boxford shaper hidden behind the Borer.
[23:05:49] <andypugh> You can actually see the ram.
[23:06:17] <andypugh> JT-Shop: The Samson is another idler.
[23:06:55] <andypugh> There is stored energy in the rotating parts, and if the voltage drops then it will self-generate some more.
[23:07:57] <andypugh> It does make me wonder if 10x 1hp idlers would be better than 1x 10hp ones.
[23:08:47] <JT-Shop> I'd imagine the 10hp one has more rotational mass but I may be full of it and not know it
[23:09:30] <andypugh> Is the 10HP 1500rpm or 300rpm?
[23:09:45] <andypugh> Modulo your silly mains frequency
[23:09:53] <andypugh> And I meant 3000
[23:09:58] <JT-Shop> the 10hp is the RPC and it is 1725
[23:10:22] <andypugh> A 3250 would have more stored energy, I think.
[23:10:29] <JT-Shop> the Samson is a 7.5hp but has a large rotating mass with the 4 jaw chuck and spindle
[23:11:01] <andypugh> Mount the faceplate in the chuck, see if it gets even better?
[23:11:05] <JT-Shop> I have a 3250 15hp motor but could not get the voltage any where near right with it
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[23:11:57] <JT-Shop> well it has a 5c chuck in the 10" 4 jaw
[23:12:21] <andypugh> wind the jaws out ?
[23:12:35] <JT-Shop> so a flywheel has some merit on the idler?
[23:13:01] <andypugh> I still think that it is down to the filters being to earth, but the input phases being totally unrealted.
[23:13:12] <andypugh> Yes.
[23:13:38] <andypugh> In fact, you could try clamping your biggest 3-jaw chuck onto the motor pulley.
[23:13:53] <Sommerland> hi there! Where can I find the code that calculates the estimated milling time? I got the source files here but don't know where to find...
[23:14:30] <andypugh> You want the source code?
[23:14:39] <Sommerland> yes.
[23:15:09] <Sommerland> or better: how is the method called and in which file its located.
[23:15:40] <andypugh> You could try a grep search of the actual phrase used "milling time" or whatever it says at: http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=linuxcnc.git;a=tree;h=0587bea0c54ac895d5e82eac9179f75cdc3b2817;hb=0587bea0c54ac895d5e82eac9179f75cdc3b2817
[23:16:36] <Sommerland> I tried that without success
[23:16:42] <andypugh> If you are wondering why it is innacurate, I think it is because the preview plot does not know the machine accelleration capability.
[23:16:50] <JT-Shop> Axis does a sum of moves but it does not take into account accel
[23:17:14] <JT-Shop> decel and blending
[23:17:19] <Sommerland> no. thats not the point
[23:17:46] <andypugh> Give us your question, not your guess at the answer :-)
[23:17:49] <JT-Shop> Sommerland: in the Axis Gui?
[23:18:30] <cpresser> in order to get a 'real' milling time (with accelleration) you need to run emc2-sim
[23:18:54] <JT-Shop> what cpresser said :=)
[23:19:52] <Sommerland> i don't want to get a 'real' milling time. i'm hoping to adapt the code for my software
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[23:22:24] <andypugh> where is the machining time in Axis?
[23:22:50] <cpresser> andypugh: file->properties
[23:24:35] <JT-Shop> with all the information you have seen do you think an isolation transformer will be of any benifit?
[23:24:48] <cpresser> Sommerland: take a look at axis.py, line 1720
[23:24:51] <andypugh> I think it is axis.py around line 1689
[23:25:22] <andypugh> Yes, actual calcs are at 1720
[23:25:47] <Sommerland> great! thank you!
[23:27:10] <andypugh> JT-Shop: I think so. That would match the manual info. But, I would hate to see you spend $1000 and see no imporvement.
[23:28:41] <JT-Shop> yea, I'm looking to see if I can find another 240 - 480 three phase transformer to connect to the one we have now so RPC > 240 - 480 480 240 > VMC
[23:29:53] <andypugh> This one is undersized, but seems to have a neutral on both sides: http://www.ebay.com/itm/290720316749
[23:30:52] <andypugh> Might be useful to experiment with.
[23:31:09] <JT-Shop> yes it might be
[23:31:38] <andypugh> my ebay search term was isolation transformer kva
[23:32:19] <andypugh> Which drops out the tiny ones. Then working out star / delta / step-up becomes a manual task
[23:33:31] <andypugh> In fact, that one has so many terminals that anything has to be possible :-)
[23:33:33] <JT-Shop> I should be able to borrow one from the industrial park
[23:33:46] <JT-Shop> aye, I was looking at that
[23:34:12] <JT-Shop> I always like 100% positive feedback sellers
[23:34:20] <andypugh> It ought to sell again, or come in handy as a doorstop
[23:34:51] <JT-Shop> got rid of my fleet so no use for an anchor any more
[23:35:34] <JT-Shop> at least I have stumbled onto a somewhat working solution so I can go fwd from here
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[23:36:22] <andypugh> That AB transformer is only an Illinois away :-)
[23:36:42] <JT-Shop> hop skip and a jump
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[23:39:20] <andypugh> I found some small-scale treasure in the WEE skip at work today, a 19" rack with two sets of 6 pneumatic solenoid valves.
[23:39:46] <andypugh> I left the Sunblade 2000 + Monitor in there.
[23:40:37] <andypugh> Though I am regretting not rescung the Tandy 100's from a few weeks back
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[23:46:26] <andypugh> <ponder> Should I buy a D525 so that my dev PC can get closer to the machine it was bought to control?
[23:47:34] <jymmm> andypugh: There ae a couple of choice ut there now
[23:47:47] <jymmm> andypugh: you want cheap or cool or nice?
[23:47:58] <andypugh> I am thinking about the 2800 and a PCIe to PCI riser
[23:48:15] <andypugh> 12V power is tempting
[23:48:20] <jymmm> andypugh: There's the 8-19VDC powered one
[23:48:34] <jymmm> andypugh: There's a 6 sata port one
[23:48:40] <andypugh> DN2800MT?
[23:48:46] <jymmm> I think so
[23:49:11] <jymmm> http://www.mini-box.com/Intel-DN2800MT-Mini-ITX-Motherboard
[23:49:13] <andypugh> I would _prefer_ 12V power, Mini-ITX, SATA and a PCI slot
[23:49:41] <jymmm> there's PCIe and MiniPCI
[23:50:01] <andypugh> Yes, and I have a Mesa 5i25
[23:50:02] <Tom_itx> andypugh this one is an older itx on 12v
[23:50:28] <andypugh> Maybe I can swap the 5i25 for a 6i25?
[23:50:47] <Tom_itx> using a picopsu
[23:51:19] <jymmm> weird "THIS BOARD WILL NOT WORK WITH WINDOWS XP "
[23:51:24] <andypugh> I was hoping to avoid the expense of the PicoPSU (and also wanted to get the numbers for the DN2800. Somebody ought to
[23:51:42] <jymmm> andypugh: somebody has one already
[23:51:52] <andypugh> Who?
[23:51:55] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop sounds like a good bike ride away
[23:52:16] <jymmm> andypugh: checking logs
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[23:53:30] <Tom_itx> you can't have too many D525's
[23:53:49] <jymmm> andypugh: alex4nder- has one
[23:53:52] <Tom_itx> how many here use ssd on their linuxcnc boxes?
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[23:54:06] <andypugh> I do.
[23:54:23] <Tom_itx> no cache problems?
[23:54:25] <Tom_itx> or does it..
[23:54:43] <jymmm> andypugh: http://www.amazon.com/Intel-BOXDN2800MT-Desktop-Board-DN2800MT/dp/B006XFIK08
[23:55:18] <andypugh> I have n 8GB SATA DOM from Kingspec. It was something like £20 18 months ago and I have been compiling LiniuxCNC on it dozens of times every night. You won't kill one.
[23:55:30] <Tom_itx> jymmm, is that the new 'atom'?
[23:55:43] <Tom_itx> andy, good to know
[23:55:47] <jymmm> Tom_itx: there are newer than that
[23:55:57] <andypugh> jymmm: Find me one in the UK
[23:56:13] <Tom_itx> any latency reports on it yet?
[23:56:33] <jymmm> andypugh: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Intel-DN2800MT-Desktop-Motherboard-Mini-ITX/dp/B007MC13DC
[23:57:02] <andypugh> You know $ < £ right?
[23:57:08] <jymmm> andypugh: http://www.logicsupply.co.uk/mainboards/intel-atom/dn2800mt/
[23:57:31] <jymmm> andypugh: patients grasshopper =)
[23:57:35] <andypugh> Bought
[23:57:44] <jymmm> bought?
[23:58:11] <Tom_itx> one slot?
[23:58:43] <jymmm> Tom_itx: MiniPCI slots on it
[23:58:57] <jymmm> but only one FULL PCIe slot, yes.
[23:59:15] <JT-Shop> what is it jymmm
[23:59:39] <jymmm> JT-Shop: 8-19VDC DIRECT powered atom half height mobo
[23:59:56] <ds3> 8-19V? blah