#linuxcnc | Logs for 2012-05-30

[00:02:41] <drmacro> Well, it appears the storm they've been takin bout all day is here, my neck is killin me from this computer, and it's dinner time. Thanks! for all the help...I'll probably be around in the future.
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[00:06:50] <Valen> JT-Shop: linearmotionbearings2008 on ebay for ballscrews ;->
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[00:09:48] <Tom_itx> http://www.pbclinear.com/Linear-Actuators-Technology?gclid=CPGBg4fcprACFQFeTAoduRzoDg
[00:09:58] <andypugh> He's gone, chaps
[00:10:08] <Tom_itx> i'm not
[00:10:25] <andypugh> Yes you are!
[00:11:19] <andypugh> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/120919935053
[00:11:43] <andypugh> Cheap so far. (I have a snipe set up, so please don't bid)
[00:11:46] <Valen> hmm
[00:12:08] <andypugh> I don't even know what I want them for :-)
[00:12:11] <Valen> Thinking of making a wood router, I'm wondering if i should make it belt driven
[00:12:25] <Valen> you want them for my wood router lol
[00:12:35] <Tom_itx> Valen did you see that interlocking belt system someone posted?
[00:12:38] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop i think may have
[00:12:41] <Valen> probably lol
[00:12:42] <andypugh> I think I would try a servobelt clone
[00:12:52] <Tom_itx> maybe it was andypugh
[00:13:01] <andypugh> Yes, servobelt.
[00:13:06] <Valen> only thing is we want it accurate and good enough to cut Al
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[00:13:40] <Tom_itx> andy, why are those so cheap?
[00:14:34] <andypugh> Because not enough people have bid. The new price is £6000
[00:15:29] <Tom_itx> you and one other
[00:17:00] <andypugh> If I win at my snipe level I will feel guilty
[00:17:24] <Tom_itx> then if you do, send them to me
[00:17:27] <Tom_itx> i won't
[00:20:55] <Tom_itx> i'd never get that lucky
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[00:25:31] <andypugh> I will probably use them to operate my curtains, or something :-)
[00:28:28] <Tom_itx> i worked for someone who had exterior metal shades that would come down and cover all the doors and windows
[00:28:50] <Tom_itx> not blast resistant but metal
[00:29:46] <Tom_itx> wonder what sort of drive those had
[00:29:52] <andypugh> The italians like those. The name "somfi" is coming to mind.
[00:30:51] <andypugh> Somfy. Sometimes I scare myself. If only I could fremeber the names of people too.
[00:32:37] <Tom_itx> off to do some wiring
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[01:34:59] <Connor> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=160699&amp;d=1338341548
[01:35:11] <Connor> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=160700&amp;d=1338341554
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[02:05:12] <elmo40> ahh, lovely tools :) http://itunes.apple.com/no/app/iscar-catalog/id524362614?mt=8
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[02:24:02] <jymmm> This is fucked up... http://www.deweyhammond.com/2011/10/live-turtles-used-as-keychains-in-china.html
[02:28:50] <A0Sheds> it's better than dead turtles
[02:29:44] <pcw_home> not so sure
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[02:30:54] <jymmm> A0Sheds: Turtles live 50+ years, and only 2 months in a fucking bag
[02:32:49] <jymmm> in it's own fecal matter.
[02:36:21] <A0Sheds> people probably take them out after a short time
[02:37:50] <jymmm> If I had gone to china and saw that, I'd be arrested.
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[02:39:34] <A0Sheds> jymmm, did you get the PP tube sealer up and running?
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[02:59:57] <jymmm> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_ayRAHezjM&feature=related
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[03:43:57] <Connor> Hey guys, question with the TTT stuff.. I just engraved something.. and I'm using a V bit.. it followed the profile of the letter.. what I really need is for it to do a center stroke on the letters letting the V bit handle the sides.
[04:05:14] <Connor> anyone on text engraving using center stroke of the letter vs the profile ?
[04:08:12] <jdhNC> you just want a single stroke font?
[04:08:46] <Connor> Well.. take Arial.. It works fine with it.. But, it needs to fill it, or just do a center stroke instead of a profile/pocket.
[04:09:03] <jdhNC> hershey fonts?
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[04:20:18] <Connor> would think you could do it without having to specify a font like that..
[04:23:14] <archivist> Connor, you want the version awallin has made
[04:23:26] <Connor> ok?
[04:24:09] <Connor> link ?
[04:25:50] <r00t4rd3d> I got 800 tools and I am foiled by a mini, flat head screw driver.
[04:28:34] <archivist> Connor, http://www.anderswallin.net/category/cnc/emc/
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[04:42:03] <jymmm> A0Sheds: no
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[04:52:31] <jymmm> r00t4rd3d: improvise
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[07:00:55] <archivist> mrsun, I let gravity deal with backlash on Z at the moment, I dont expect cutting forces to lift the Z anyway
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[07:20:39] <DJ9DJ> moin
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[10:30:34] <Loetmichel> mornin'
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[11:44:18] <mrsun> archivist, i got a very small Z :P
[11:44:33] <mrsun> and if i tighten the gibs to where i want them the head wont realy fall free =)
[11:45:22] <archivist> then you need 0 backlash so it gets pushed down
[11:45:50] <alex_joni> I've seen some ads online the other day: "Enlargen your Z! click here"
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[11:46:31] <mrsun> alex_joni, haha :P
[11:46:43] <mrsun> archivist, yeah ... :/
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[11:47:23] <mrsun> tho i think that screw is an ordenary M10 or something, so i guess i could make a anti backlash by adding a sping and a nut and something that guides the nut so it doesnt twist :P
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[11:47:38] <mrsun> tho frictional forces will be greater
[11:52:05] <jonand> *booting linuxcnc for the first time in virtualbox*
[11:52:20] <jonand> I do live in exciting times!
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[14:12:08] <Valen> mrsun: thats how we antibacklash our ballscrews ;->
[14:12:14] <Valen> belville washers are your friend
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[14:24:53] <ScribbleJ> Just for the record, I was having horrible luck with the open source stuff so I installed that /totally legit/ software that came with my router and it works great. Which makes me sad.
[14:25:54] <jdhNC> and some free extra malware!
[14:26:27] <ScribbleJ> I'm not too worried; I already wouldn't trust Windows as far as I can throw it.
[14:26:50] <ScribbleJ> So some dudes get some extra spammail thanks to the botnet on my PC... sucks to be them.!
[14:26:51] <ScribbleJ> heh
[14:26:56] <jymmm> jdhNC: Wuuuuuuuuut, Windows isn't malware enough that it needs EXTRA?
[14:27:15] <ScribbleJ> More seriously, though... I decided to go figure out how much it would cost me to get this software legitimately.
[14:27:33] <jymmm> Windows is #1 selling virus ever!
[14:27:39] <jymmm> ScribbleJ: ArtCam?
[14:27:44] <ScribbleJ> It's ArtCam and Powermill (Delcam?). Powermill is one of those things where they don't even tell you the price online as far as I can see.
[14:27:50] <ScribbleJ> Which has got to mean it's expensive, huh.
[14:28:31] <jymmm> ScribbleJ: ArtCam Insigia ~= $6000 USD, ArtCam ~= $8500 USD
[14:28:49] <jymmm> plus extras
[14:28:56] <ScribbleJ> Jesus, and ArtCam isn't even that useful. Powermill / Delcam is the really useful one.
[14:28:59] <ScribbleJ> I bet it's even more.
[14:29:02] <ScribbleJ> That's ridiculous.
[14:29:06] <jdhNC> artcam Express $149
[14:29:24] <ScribbleJ> That sounds more like it, except I wonder what they've left out then.
[14:29:27] <jymmm> jdhNC: Yeah, dont get fooled by it.
[14:29:56] <jdhNC> yeah, I looked once. For $149 you can do profiles or something
[14:30:18] <jymmm> Probably left out a lot of the post processing, CAM stuff, 3D stuff, etc. Look at the "add ons" for it to see how cripled it is.
[14:30:41] <ScribbleJ> :(
[14:30:58] <jymmm> they charge for the tutorial dvd, give only 10 3D cliparts, etc
[14:31:09] <jdhNC> for $150, cut2d is simple, easy to use, works well. For the limited things it does anyway.
[14:32:18] <jymmm> ArtCam does a lot of nice things
[14:32:39] <ScribbleJ> Gah.
[14:32:57] <jymmm> Nesting, cabinet making stuff, 3D, 2.5D, etc
[14:32:57] <ScribbleJ> Well, I'll probably continue to use it for the short term but I have to find something I can use long term, too.
[14:33:17] <ScribbleJ> If there's nothing out there that really works well and is priced sanely I suppose I'll have to write my own.
[14:34:19] <jymmm> One of the biggest issues with ArtCam or any other product of theirs is the requirement of a dongle to use it. If you lose/break the dongle, you're fucked.
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[14:35:00] <jymmm> And unless they've changed their policy, you have to buy a full license to replace the dongle,
[14:35:02] <ScribbleJ> http://aedsoftware.com/ Why doesn't this seem entirely legitimate?
[14:35:38] <ScribbleJ> Fuck that dongle shit. Seriously. $6000 and a dongle, they can go screw themselves. They're not on the list of possible long-term options.
[14:37:13] <jymmm> Well, there are dongle emulators out there now so you can store the dongle in a safe place.
[14:37:16] <ScribbleJ> I bet it's a parallel port dongle. That would be hilarious.
[14:37:23] <jdhNC> payment method Western Union
[14:38:04] <jymmm> Borland and Broderbund lol
[14:38:24] <ScribbleJ> Sometimes you want that 1980's nostalgia, jymmm
[14:40:43] <jymmm> ScribbleJ: What you mean nostalgia? I use Borland Turbo Pascal all the time
[14:41:02] <ScribbleJ> I'm sorry to hear that, jymmm.
[14:41:12] <jymmm> Why?
[14:42:12] <ScribbleJ> Compilers have come a looong way since 19805.
[14:42:16] <ScribbleJ> -0
[14:42:39] <jymmm> Sure, but so has OS bloat =)
[14:42:48] <ScribbleJ> Not to mention, it probably can't generate code for any modern machine/processor.
[14:43:06] <ScribbleJ> Using Turbo Pascal is the opposite of avoiding bloat.
[14:43:19] <archivist> use C
[14:43:24] <ScribbleJ> If you're all concerned about tight code, you're gunna have to go to something that's a lot closer to the bone.
[14:43:28] <jymmm> Have you ever taken an ancient OS and tossed on a modern computer? IT BARLY runs faster than 2x it's original speed
[14:43:33] <ScribbleJ> Pascal is way out there in the fatty layers.
[14:44:18] <jymmm> Maybe, but you don't have to deal with as much memory management as you might with c/c++
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[14:44:34] <archivist> jymmm, because the modern OS is interpreting the old stuff
[14:44:46] <ScribbleJ> I'm not saying it's a bad choice or a trivial tradeoff. C/C++ memory management is a giant pain!
[14:45:00] <ScribbleJ> I am saying it's a little weird to like an old thing because of modern bloat, and then have that old thing be Turbo Pascal.
[14:45:37] <jymmm> archivist: Ancient OS on Modern hardware, not ancient application.
[14:45:45] <ScribbleJ> archivist, he said putting an old OS on there, not some old apps that require thunking or emulation.
[14:46:00] <archivist> I know
[14:46:35] <archivist> so the modern os cannot directly run the old sh.. therefore interprets it..slower
[14:47:00] <jymmm> archivist: There is no Modern OS, it's Ancient OS on Modern HARDWARE
[14:47:35] <archivist> the hardware does the same interpretation trick, just you dont see it!
[14:48:15] <ScribbleJ> That's not so. The basic x86 instruction set has remained untouched since ancient pre-history when men fought each other with bones.
[14:48:33] <ScribbleJ> They've added lots of things but not removed.
[14:49:04] <archivist> ScribbleJ, and you would be wrong, the modern chip interprets the old instructions
[14:49:22] <ScribbleJ> I'll believe that's how it's implemented, if that's what you say.
[14:49:28] <archivist> this being 32 on 64 etc
[14:51:55] <ScribbleJ> I dunno hardware too well, archivist, but at a quick glance, the internet seems to contradict you. There are some rare systems that act like you say (AS/400) but it sounds like most systems have true hardware compatibility - for example Intel Itanium includes a 32-bit core on the die.
[14:52:35] <ScribbleJ> I'd love to know more about it though if you have a link that shows I'm wrong.
[14:53:25] <archivist> all I can find at the moment are links to the WoW emulator in windows
[14:54:08] <jymmm> Since I don't play WoW, what is this emulator emulating?
[14:54:15] <ScribbleJ> That's an OS, software, API-level thing. Not a hardware level thing. It's because of the way the win APIs were written and has nothing to do with it.
[14:54:26] <ScribbleJ> jymmm, not WOW the game, WOW the thunking layer in Windows.
[14:54:33] <jymmm> ah
[14:54:35] <archivist> WoW is windows32 bit on Windows54
[14:55:26] <jymmm> That sounds more like a backwards compatability thing more than anything else.
[14:55:31] <archivist> some searches are hard due to the internet noise
[14:55:54] <archivist> jymmm, there is a similar thing in the chips though
[14:55:55] <ScribbleJ> It is, and it's a software thing in the OS, not something that would effect the speed of a different OS. It's just because Windows is a horrible arch.
[14:56:01] <jymmm> heh, don't I know it. Try searching for a species of 'mouse'
[14:56:25] <ScribbleJ> Screw that, try finding a torrent of a record by "The Band." Those bastards named themselves that on purpose.
[14:57:42] <jdhNC> damn, how old are you?
[14:57:52] <ScribbleJ> Doh. :(
[14:57:58] <jymmm> lol
[14:58:03] <ScribbleJ> I'm only in my late 30s. Heh.
[14:58:36] <jymmm> 30's? Do you have a walker, or is the cane enugh for you?
[14:58:58] <ScribbleJ> Oh no, I don't get out of the chair... that's what Jeeves is for. If I moved, I coudl break a hip.
[14:59:09] <archivist> jymmm, and are you running in a vm?
[14:59:48] <jymmm> archivist: No, I mean on bare metal
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[15:02:42] <jymmm> What sucks for me is multiole cores/cpus are worthless. It's a cheap hack intel/amd came up with instead of 4,8,16GHz
[15:02:54] <ScribbleJ> Well,t hat's not exactly true.
[15:03:11] <jymmm> ScribbleJ: I said "for me"
[15:03:19] <ScribbleJ> Haaa
[15:03:26] <ScribbleJ> Well, if you're still running your DOS, I guess so.
[15:03:27] <Tom_itx> jymmm's well.... jymmm
[15:03:27] <ScribbleJ> :P
[15:03:46] <jymmm> ScribbleJ: Or crypto
[15:03:55] <ScribbleJ> ?
[15:04:34] <ScribbleJ> You might not be able to do a CBC chain across multiple cores without being clever, but there's plenty of types of crypto that are inherently parallelizable. (good word, I know!)
[15:04:40] <jymmm> ScribbleJ: Unless your OS and your app can take full advantage of multi core/cpu, it's worthless for crypto work.
[15:05:10] <ScribbleJ> ... yea... uhm... sure. Why would you do that? It's like complaining my bicycle makes a shitty trailer towing automobile. :P
[15:05:25] <jymmm> ScribbleJ: The OS AND App have to be wrotten for it specifically, where as raw speed works far better.
[15:06:04] <ScribbleJ> That's only kind of true -- but you keep saying that like at some point processor manufacturers said "OK, 2ghz is fast enough, let's focus on multicores now."
[15:06:07] <ScribbleJ> But that's not what happened.
[15:06:32] <ScribbleJ> IT was a lot more like "Fuck... we can't make this shit any faster, we've hit a wall... what the hell are we going to do now?" "Well, the only thing we can... put multiple cores on there."
[15:06:40] <jymmm> Ever toss up a cpu monitor and watch as you open close apps? Its never evenly distributed
[15:07:12] <ScribbleJ> That all depends on what scheduler you use.
[15:07:20] <Tom_itx> usually the discounted cad cam only does 2.5d
[15:07:26] <Tom_itx> at best
[15:07:32] <Tom_itx> with other features crippled likely
[15:07:34] <jymmm> ScribbleJ: That's the point, It shouldn't matter.
[15:07:46] <ScribbleJ> Huh.
[15:07:50] <jymmm> nm
[15:07:56] <ScribbleJ> :)
[15:09:44] <Tom_itx> jymmm there's a company that will bypass dongles for you
[15:10:17] <jymmm> Tom_itx: There's software that does it for you, but I still wouldn't buy anything that requires a dongle
[15:10:32] <Tom_itx> yeah i'm probably an hour behind... catching up on the scrollback
[15:10:47] <Tom_itx> most cad cam packages do
[15:10:51] <Tom_itx> that i know of
[15:11:20] <Tom_itx> catia doesn't but it's 75k a seat and that was 10 yrs ago
[15:11:22] <jymmm> Unless they charge $10 for a replacemen fuck that.
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[15:11:44] <Tom_itx> and it doesn't come with cam
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[15:15:12] <ScribbleJ> Do you know how much Delcam Powermill costs? I'm sure it's a lugh but I can't find the price listed online.
[15:15:15] <ScribbleJ> laugh
[15:16:26] <archivist> I got a silly price quoted for Hypermill the other day, I laughed, they gave me a stress ball
[15:18:00] <jymmm> is that like a cookie and a pat on the head?
[15:18:42] <roycroft> so i'm still confused about my hardware choices from the computer to the stepper drives
[15:18:53] <roycroft> i'm not finding any good, single resource that explains all the options clearly
[15:19:04] <jymmm> roycroft: how much money do you have?
[15:19:15] <archivist> be careful of sales hype
[15:19:21] <roycroft> enough to do it properly, not enough to overspend
[15:19:39] <jymmm> roycroft: Here's a stress ball for you.
[15:19:56] <roycroft> i've picked up a lot by lurking here
[15:20:03] <roycroft> but i'm still not certain what i should be doing
[15:20:26] <archivist> this is what I use http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Stepper-Motors/Stepper-Drivers
[15:20:26] <jymmm> It's not gonna help unless you give a real number.
[15:20:57] <archivist> I believe they are probaly the longshine ones
[15:20:58] <roycroft> what i need to do does not depend on a monetary figure
[15:21:15] <roycroft> i need to figure out what i need to do
[15:21:18] <jymmm> you can believe that all day long
[15:21:21] <roycroft> and if i don't have enough money, i need to get more money
[15:21:36] <roycroft> but i can't just pull a number out of my head and say "i need to do it for this amount"
[15:21:47] <roycroft> my objective is not to exhaust my supply of cash
[15:21:49] <archivist> money is a poor metric
[15:21:56] <jymmm> well, unless you plan on wearing fishnets, you need to have a real number, a budget if you will.
[15:22:01] <roycroft> my objective is to do a proper conversion that will work
[15:22:18] <roycroft> right now i have about $1k cash
[15:22:21] <roycroft> but i can augment that if needed
[15:22:27] <archivist> you need to know torque amd speed requirments
[15:22:35] <jymmm> you can be a cheap bastard after that, but you do need to set a budget and go from there.
[15:22:37] <roycroft> i'll sort that out, archiv ist
[15:22:43] <archivist> or just go and do servo
[15:22:55] <roycroft> that depends on whether i get ball screws or use the acme screws for now
[15:23:14] <roycroft> as i said previously, my concern is the part from the pci bus on the computer to the motors
[15:23:32] <roycroft> i'm quite clear what my options are for the motors (be they stepper or servo) and the mill itself
[15:23:51] <roycroft> i've been looking at the mesa boards
[15:23:58] <archivist> servo makes a faster better machine
[15:24:08] <roycroft> at the very least, they offer more flexibility than a parallel port
[15:24:18] <roycroft> i'm not certain whether they perform better or not
[15:24:44] <roycroft> i'm also not clear on whether a bob is necessary, desirable, or just fun
[15:25:11] <jymmm> roycroft: Seriosuly, you can earmark $2000, but can easily go way beyond that with options left and right being nickled and dimed to death. Make a budget, see whats available (on paper), then decide if you want to increase the budget before you've bought anything.
[15:25:14] <roycroft> my biggest uncertainty is what my options are should i not get jitter down
[15:25:29] <roycroft> jymmm: i'm ready to start buying stuff
[15:25:30] <archivist> you need isolation it is often built into the stepper drives
[15:25:43] <jymmm> roycroft: you're not even close, you only think you are.
[15:25:45] <roycroft> and i am absolutely going to put a complete budget together before i start purchasing things
[15:25:56] <roycroft> ready in that i have the money
[15:26:12] <roycroft> i think i'm making it quite clear that i'm not ready in terms of having chosen what i'm going to purchase
[15:26:13] <archivist> but stepper drive inputs often need a little more drive that the parallel port has
[15:26:55] <archivist> are you comfortable with some homebrew electronics
[15:27:08] <roycroft> before i buy anything i'll have a complete wiring diagram drawn out, hopefully ensuring that i have enough inputs/outputs for everything i need
[15:27:08] jthornton-2 is now known as jthornton
[15:27:19] <roycroft> yes, but my electronics skills are stale
[15:27:26] <archivist> wiring diagram!
[15:27:34] <roycroft> i took my electronics classes 30-odd years ago
[15:27:42] <roycroft> i'm relearning rapidly
[15:27:44] <jthornton> roycroft, the first decision to make is steppers/servos as the rest of the system depends on that decision
[15:27:46] <Tom_itx> roycroft, i'm using a 7i43 and a 7i47 on my little mill
[15:27:49] <roycroft> but there's a lot or catching up to do
[15:28:06] <Tom_itx> what mill do you have or plan to get?
[15:28:10] <roycroft> i have an x3 clone
[15:28:37] <archivist> I just shove a buffer chip on a bit of breadboard and wire as needed
[15:28:40] <roycroft> i was pretty decided on stepper motors, for simplicity, but i really like the idea of servos because of the feedback - it seems they would be more accurate
[15:28:49] <roycroft> but harder to initially set up
[15:29:00] <roycroft> brb
[15:29:05] <Tom_itx> x3? link?
[15:29:28] <jymmm> Tom_itx: like cradek has
[15:29:38] <Tom_itx> dunno that i've seen his either
[15:30:58] <Tom_itx> jymmm using 'frame' ground as you suggested... i measured Mohms between the stepper frames so i don't think that's such a good idea
[15:31:25] <roycroft> http://www.grizzly.com/products/Mill-Drill/G0463
[15:31:49] <roycroft> i was originally going to build a cnc router
[15:31:55] <roycroft> but decided to convert my mill instead
[15:32:15] <Tom_itx> how much Y travel does that have?
[15:32:29] <jthornton> ah that is a mini desktop mill http://www.mini-lathe.com/X3_mill/X3rvw/X3.htm
[15:32:36] <jthornton> steppers are fine for that size
[15:32:40] <roycroft> it can have up to 8" of y travel
[15:32:41] <Tom_itx> 5 3/4 it looks like
[15:32:45] <roycroft> as shipped 5-3/4"
[15:32:50] <roycroft> but it's an easy mod to get 8"
[15:32:54] <Tom_itx> how?
[15:32:58] <roycroft> most folks do that when they do a cnc conversion
[15:33:01] <jymmm> roycroft: http://www.embeddedtronics.com/x3.html
[15:33:10] <roycroft> longer screw and milling out a small recess in the column
[15:33:30] <Tom_itx> jthornton, are nema 23 big enough for it?
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[15:33:53] <roycroft> i've seen that page
[15:33:54] <jthornton> might be if geared properly
[15:33:55] <Tom_itx> or would you go with a bigger frame size
[15:34:07] <Tom_itx> steppers aren't that peppy to begin with
[15:34:08] <roycroft> like many conversion pages, it's somewhat incomplete
[15:34:27] <roycroft> i'm slowly putting the pieces together by reading a lot of x3 (and other) conversion pages
[15:34:32] <jthornton> a 23 triple stack has enough power to push my gantry along at >500IPM
[15:34:44] <jthornton> or do I have double stack I forget
[15:34:46] <Tom_itx> mine are double i think
[15:34:59] <Tom_itx> but i must admit these new drivers brought them to life
[15:35:03] <roycroft> i'm not going to direct-drive my screws, regardless of stepper or servo
[15:35:10] <Connor> I'm using 570Oz-in on my G0704
[15:35:10] <roycroft> i'll belt-drive them
[15:35:32] <IchGuckLive> depending on the streppers its 150 to 500 rpm for 100% step accuracy
[15:35:33] <roycroft> which allows for essentially any gear ratio i want
[15:35:37] <Tom_itx> roycroft, any reason?
[15:35:42] <jthornton> roycroft, steppers are fine on a mini mill and a whole lot less complicated and cost effective
[15:35:43] <roycroft> space
[15:36:00] <Connor> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=160699&amp;d=1338341548
[15:36:01] <Connor> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=160700&amp;d=1338341554
[15:36:17] <Connor> stepper covers I made.. .. on one of those 570z-in steppers
[15:36:45] <IchGuckLive> roycroft: witch country are you in
[15:36:51] <IchGuckLive> USA
[15:36:55] <jthornton> for $300 you can get the computer, and the 5i25/7i76 combo tack on some drives and motors and your system is ready to mount
[15:37:08] <roycroft> but again, my concern is not with the mill itself
[15:37:15] <roycroft> it's everything from the computer up to the drives
[15:37:18] <roycroft> i have a computer
[15:37:23] <roycroft> and i have a touchscreen display for it
[15:37:32] <jthornton> does it have good latency?
[15:37:36] <roycroft> no
[15:37:45] <Tom_itx> if your pc doesn't pan out, i'd suggest an atom D525 itx
[15:37:47] <roycroft> but i've also done nothing to try to improve it
[15:37:49] <IchGuckLive> roycroft: computer model ?
[15:37:50] <jthornton> ditch it for a D525 for $80
[15:38:01] <roycroft> it's an hp something - i forget the model
[15:38:02] <Tom_itx> they are a good cheap solution
[15:38:07] <Tom_itx> hands down
[15:38:07] <roycroft> dual xeon, 4GB of ram
[15:38:16] <roycroft> it's a pretty capable machine, but there's a lot of jitter
[15:38:26] <roycroft> again, i've done nothing to ameliorate that
[15:38:28] <jthornton> plug in a 5i25 to the pci slot, connect the cable to the 7i76 done
[15:38:45] <jthornton> too capable perhaps
[15:38:45] <Tom_itx> jt, what's the 7i76 board?
[15:38:47] <IchGuckLive> thats the best but pricy
[15:38:53] <roycroft> that's not very pricey
[15:38:59] <jthornton> 5 axis stepper driver
[15:39:05] <roycroft> 5i25 +7i76 is like $200 or so
[15:39:08] <Tom_itx> ahh
[15:39:14] <jthornton> yep with a cable I think
[15:39:19] <Tom_itx> jthornton, is it made for the 5i25?
[15:39:20] <IchGuckLive> roycroft: a C10 is 38
[15:39:23] <roycroft> but i still need controllers
[15:39:26] <jthornton> yes
[15:39:30] <roycroft> and that's the biggest unknown
[15:39:37] <jthornton> roycroft, no then you only need drives
[15:39:45] <IchGuckLive> roycroft: go for Gecko or leadshine
[15:39:46] <roycroft> if i can't get the jitter down, my understanding is that i need intelligent controllers
[15:39:52] <roycroft> i also need power supplies
[15:40:00] <Tom_itx> roycroft from personal experience i'd suggest gecko
[15:40:05] <jthornton> ditch the junk computer for $80
[15:40:11] <Connor> http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/stepper-nema23-3-axis-kits/cnc-stepper-motor-3-axis-kit-1
[15:40:11] <Tom_itx> i've been very pleased with mine so far
[15:40:13] <jthornton> yep
[15:40:26] <jymmm> roycroft: there is nothing you can do to reduce jitter short of designing your own motherboard
[15:40:30] <Tom_itx> and take the advice on the atom MB
[15:40:33] <Tom_itx> seriously
[15:40:35] <IchGuckLive> yep gecko for the USA based leadshine for Europ
[15:40:46] <jthornton> what IchGuckLive said
[15:41:00] <IchGuckLive> B)
[15:41:06] <Connor> The Keling drivers are good also.
[15:41:18] <IchGuckLive> keling.net
[15:41:38] <jthornton> you can't beat Gecko drivers
[15:41:48] <Connor> no, www.automationtechnologiesinc.com
[15:41:50] <Tom_itx> not even with a stick
[15:41:57] <jthornton> you can only get cheaper ones
[15:42:23] <IchGuckLive> you can mod your leadshine as the printlayout is the same
[15:42:39] <jthornton> roycroft, are you US or EU?
[15:42:45] <roycroft> i'm in the us
[15:42:54] <Tom_itx> roycroft here's the atom alot of us have gone with: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813121442
[15:43:00] <jthornton> I'd go Gecko then
[15:43:07] <IchGuckLive> so its the Easyest to stay inside the Automotion line
[15:43:08] <Tom_itx> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811154091
[15:43:14] <Tom_itx> and a case with psu for it
[15:43:29] <roycroft> that's not terribly expensive
[15:43:39] <Tom_itx> i've been very pleased with the gecko 203v drivers i got
[15:43:46] <Tom_itx> not at all
[15:43:47] <IchGuckLive> roycroft: and your jitter will be gone
[15:43:54] <Tom_itx> it's why jthornton told you to ditch your pc
[15:43:57] <jymmm> Well OEM750 beats Geckos, also $700/EACH lol
[15:44:01] * roycroft wonders if he has an atx rack enclosure handy
[15:44:19] <Connor> Those Gecko's are expensive..
[15:44:24] * jthornton smacks jymmm with a frozen mackerel
[15:44:32] <Tom_itx> Connor a good investment
[15:44:33] <Tom_itx> imo
[15:44:38] <jymmm> jthornton: What?
[15:44:39] <Tom_itx> i'm a tight ass too
[15:44:39] <jthornton> cost effective actually
[15:44:42] <Tom_itx> but i got them
[15:44:50] <roycroft> i could go from the parallel port on that directly to a breakout board, no?
[15:44:55] <Tom_itx> yes
[15:44:57] <roycroft> and skup the mesa 5i25?
[15:44:58] <roycroft> skip
[15:44:59] <jymmm> jthornton: They do, just pricer than hell
[15:45:12] <Tom_itx> roycroft, i went with the mesa 7i43 parallel port card on mine
[15:45:16] <IchGuckLive> Connor dident you got that fit into a ATX case with the stages !
[15:45:17] <roycroft> i eventually want 5 axis control
[15:45:17] <Tom_itx> a good way to go
[15:45:17] <jthornton> or just skip the breakout board
[15:45:26] <Connor> KL-5056 OR KL-5056D's work good too. go up to 50VDC @ 5.6Amps
[15:45:32] <roycroft> actually, 4 axis, with one axis split (knee + quill for z)
[15:45:36] <jthornton> then don't skip the 5i25
[15:45:40] <jymmm> jthornton: but no significant benefit over geckos at
[15:45:47] <Tom_itx> roycroft, the 7i43 will give you much better performance over a parallel port
[15:46:11] <jthornton> is that pci?
[15:46:13] <Connor> http://www.ivdc.com/cnc/conversion/enclosure.JPG
[15:46:13] <IchGuckLive> roycroft: 5Axis are within all systems parport 7i76
[15:46:16] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, no
[15:46:19] <Tom_itx> parport
[15:46:37] <jthornton> best to use the 5i25 IMHO
[15:46:49] <Tom_itx> probably so
[15:46:56] <jymmm> JT-Shop: 75V@7.5A peak and 50,000 microstepping =)
[15:47:10] <Connor> Atom PC board, with 3 stepper drivers, room enough for 3 more above. I have a relay board and a charge pump to the top of the BOB. on either side of the connector.
[15:47:14] <IchGuckLive> roycroft: look at connors link
[15:47:20] <Connor> Still could remove the drive cages for more room.
[15:47:32] <IchGuckLive> http://www.ustream.tv/channel-popup/nasa-hd-tv ISS Hatch close Live
[15:47:48] <Tom_itx> jthornton, he was just talking about skipping the 5i25 was all, the 7i43 would be parport but much better performance
[15:47:56] <IchGuckLive> Connor 6Axis fit
[15:47:58] <Connor> That's a 4U Rackmount case from a old server I had.
[15:48:02] <Tom_itx> not sure about the cost difference
[15:48:16] <Tom_itx> the 5i25 wasn't out when i got mine
[15:48:23] <Tom_itx> you were on the very bleeding edge...
[15:48:26] <roycroft> i have a short floor-mount equipment rack for the hardware
[15:48:29] <jthornton> lol
[15:48:31] <roycroft> i'm going to put it on casters
[15:49:03] <Connor> roycroft: what on casters? The PC ?
[15:49:06] <roycroft> i'll probably keep the computer itself in its own enclosure, and build an enclosure for the power supplies/controller/etc.
[15:49:08] <jthornton> the 5i25 7i76 is by far the easiest to set up with one cable from the pci board to the controller board
[15:49:09] <roycroft> yes, the pc
[15:49:26] <jymmm> locking casters I hope
[15:49:29] <roycroft> the mill is already mounted on a stand that i fabricated
[15:49:35] <Connor> I hang this whole thing on the wall.
[15:49:37] <Tom_itx> roycroft, here's the 2 cards i'm using: http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/cnc/pendant.jpg
[15:49:57] <Connor> http://www.ivdc.com/cnc/conversion/mill_in_shop3.jpg
[15:49:57] * jthornton wanders back to the shop
[15:50:01] <Tom_itx> you probably don't need the 7i47 but may want a buffer card of some type
[15:50:49] <Tom_itx> along with my atom pc
[15:50:49] <IchGuckLive> Tom_itx: the uper cable left card is going to ?
[15:51:21] <Tom_itx> parport
[15:51:29] <Tom_itx> the usb is for 5v power only
[15:51:37] <IchGuckLive> ok
[15:51:44] <Tom_itx> convenience
[15:52:04] <Tom_itx> i'm switcing over to a smps 5v supply probably today
[15:52:13] <roycroft> i think i want something to isolate the controller from the pc
[15:52:37] <Tom_itx> well then you decide if you want to use the parallel port or the pci bus
[15:52:39] <IchGuckLive> roycroft: mesa is isolated
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[15:52:50] <Tom_itx> pci: 5i25, parallel: 7i43
[15:52:59] <Tom_itx> if it were up to me.
[15:53:12] <roycroft> dammit
[15:53:13] <Tom_itx> and the other card jthornton suggested
[15:53:18] <roycroft> my boss scheduled a meeting at noon for me
[15:53:29] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx: what was your all up cost for the 7i43 system?
[15:53:31] <Tom_itx> and it's 7 til?
[15:53:33] <roycroft> he knows i need to eat lunch on time
[15:53:49] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop you know as a hobby that's a cardinal sin
[15:53:54] <roycroft> i guess he doesn't care if i get diabetes
[15:54:08] <Tom_itx> i honestly haven't added it
[15:54:20] <Tom_itx> the atom pc was about 350 total
[15:54:38] <Tom_itx> the mesa cards you can figure.. 7i43, 7i47
[15:54:40] <JT-Shop> does your drives connect directly to the 7i43?
[15:54:46] <Tom_itx> no
[15:54:51] <Connor> roycroft: Type 2 or Type 1?
[15:54:52] <roycroft> 5i25 and 7i43 are almost the same price
[15:54:52] <Tom_itx> i use the 7i47
[15:54:59] <roycroft> i'm at risk for type 2
[15:55:00] <JT-Shop> plus a 50 pin cable or two
[15:55:02] <roycroft> but i'm not there
[15:55:05] <roycroft> and i don't intend to go there
[15:55:16] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, the only thing direct connect is the limit switches
[15:55:22] <roycroft> not eating on time does not help that situation, though
[15:55:27] <Connor> I've be DDXed with type 2 going on my 2nd year now..
[15:55:55] <Tom_itx> the other costs were the new steppers @ ~39 ea and the gecko drivers for them
[15:55:55] <Connor> but, just use Metforman, no insulin for it.
[15:56:06] <Tom_itx> i surplused the psu for the new system
[15:56:40] <JT-Shop> so your I/0 is going to the 7i43 and not to an I/O card?
[15:57:04] <Tom_itx> just on the switches
[15:57:12] <Tom_itx> i'm using the 7i47 for everything else
[15:57:28] <Tom_itx> i got it for lack of knowledge at the time
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[15:57:34] <Tom_itx> but it works fine
[15:58:42] <Tom_itx> http://www.kelinginc.net/NEMA23Motor.html
[15:58:46] <Tom_itx> steppers are #3
[15:58:50] <Tom_itx> still 39 ea
[15:58:50] <roycroft> i'm mildly hyperglycemic
[15:58:58] <roycroft> blood sugar around 150 after a meal
[15:59:04] <JT-Shop> so the cost is about the same as the 5i25/7i76
[15:59:10] <Tom_itx> for roycroft i'd suggest bigger ones for that other mill
[15:59:16] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, probably so
[15:59:21] <roycroft> so i'm at risk, but far from having diabetes
[15:59:29] <Tom_itx> like i said, you were on the bleeding edge of that
[15:59:38] <Connor> roycroft: keep it that way.
[15:59:44] <roycroft> that's my intent, connor
[15:59:47] <Tom_itx> if it were to do over i'd probably go that way too
[15:59:48] <JT-Shop> you think I got serial number 0
[15:59:56] <Tom_itx> 0 or 1
[15:59:59] <roycroft> which is why i'm so upset when my boss tries to get me to skip lunch
[16:00:00] <Tom_itx> andy may have 0
[16:00:06] <JT-Shop> I pulled out a 5i20 for the 5i25
[16:00:19] <roycroft> i'm still at a point where things can be controlled with diet
[16:00:26] <roycroft> i do not intend to have to take medication for this
[16:00:40] <roycroft> folks, i'm still confused
[16:00:48] <JT-Shop> about what?
[16:00:54] <roycroft> perhaps a little more focused and a slight amount of better understanding
[16:00:57] <roycroft> but still confused overall
[16:01:23] <roycroft> i just need to read more of the specs on the hardware you're all suggesting, and hopefully it will sink in some more
[16:01:29] <Tom_itx> roycroft, i'd listen to jthornton on the pc and the card setup
[16:02:11] <JT-Shop> D525 mother board > Mesa 5i25 > 7i67 > gecko 251 or 203v's > steppers
[16:02:18] <roycroft> i think, also, that it's time i start diagramming this out
[16:02:34] <roycroft> instead of reading specs on individual components in isolation
[16:02:42] <roycroft> i'll work on that this evening
[16:02:43] <JT-Shop> you will need a power supply for the geckos and for field I/O
[16:03:05] <roycroft> and i haven't even begun to figure out spindle control
[16:03:20] <JT-Shop> the 251 is a lower voltage version of the 203v
[16:03:33] <JT-Shop> the 7i67 has spindle control built in
[16:03:42] <JT-Shop> and encoder feedback
[16:04:20] <JT-Shop> The 7I76 is designed for interfacing up to 5 Axis of step &dir step motor or servo motor drives and also provides a spindle encoder interface, isolated analog spindle speed control and 48 isolated I/O points for general purpose field I/O use.
[16:04:52] <Tom_itx> note: you run out of io before you think you will
[16:04:59] <roycroft> yes, that is a concern
[16:05:21] <Tom_itx> most of these cards are designed with that in mind though
[16:05:24] <JT-Shop> with 48 I/O on the 7i67 it will take a big machine to use that all up
[16:05:40] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, my pendant took a chunk
[16:05:44] <roycroft> i figure limit switches can be set up in series (or parallel, depending on whether i use nc or no switches), and only take up one io port
[16:05:58] <roycroft> but i still fear running out of io ports
[16:06:00] <JT-Shop> no need for that with a 7i67
[16:06:16] <JT-Shop> 48 I/O!
[16:06:36] <JT-Shop> 32 inputs and 16 outputs!
[16:06:48] <Tom_itx> i got 48
[16:07:17] <roycroft> how many ports does a 4-wire stepper motor use?
[16:07:23] <Tom_itx> i wish the io on the 7i47 were configureable
[16:07:29] <Tom_itx> 2
[16:07:32] <JT-Shop> none they have their own
[16:07:34] <Tom_itx> step and direction
[16:07:43] <Tom_itx> for the driver
[16:07:45] <roycroft> so i'm up to 10 already, if i set it up for 5 axis
[16:07:48] <JT-Shop> step and direction pins are seperate from the I/O
[16:07:53] <JT-Shop> no no no
[16:07:57] <JT-Shop> they are seperate
[16:07:58] <Tom_itx> oh
[16:08:18] <Tom_itx> i'm not aware of all these fancy toys JT-Shop has
[16:08:19] <JT-Shop> there is like a zillion screw terminals on the 7i67
[16:08:40] <JT-Shop> please look at the picture! http://mesanet.com/
[16:09:30] <JT-Shop> spindle is seperate from I/O as well as the encoder input
[16:10:16] <Tom_itx> i wonder if he accepts trade in's :)
[16:10:21] <JT-Shop> there is 112 screw terminals on the 7i67
[16:10:27] <JT-Shop> LOL
[16:11:25] <JT-Shop> iirc kelleg sell s the geckos cheaper than gecko
[16:11:37] <Tom_itx> maybe a bit
[16:11:49] <roycroft> i don't care now may screw terminals are on my board
[16:11:52] <Tom_itx> it was him or one other place and i went with the other place
[16:11:54] <roycroft> i care what they do
[16:12:13] <JT-Shop> ok, so know what they do before you start counting
[16:12:21] <roycroft> yes
[16:12:23] <roycroft> i shall
[16:12:28] <Tom_itx> http://www.pmdx.com/GeckoDrivers
[16:12:39] <roycroft> which is why i've stated that i need to start diagramming the system
[16:12:52] <roycroft> i suppose a good approach would be to draw a black box
[16:13:08] <roycroft> figure out how many inputs and outputs i need
[16:13:14] <JT-Shop> g251's are $80 each at keling
[16:13:17] <roycroft> and then find a product that fits those criteria
[16:13:41] <roycroft> hopefully adding some for unanticipated upgrades
[16:13:54] * JT-Shop wanders off to machine some parts
[16:14:04] <roycroft> thanks for your input, jt-shop
[16:14:10] * Tom_itx wanders off to watch
[16:14:16] <JT-Shop> np
[16:14:30] <roycroft> at some point i'll be at least somewhat unconfused
[16:15:13] <JT-Shop> we all strive for that point but never make it actually the more we learn the more we can be confused about
[16:16:05] <jdhNC> 7i67?
[16:16:12] <Tom_itx> wait til it comes to getting tooling :D
[16:16:27] <Tom_itx> jdhNC it's for the 5i25
[16:16:43] <jdhNC> is it out?
[16:16:52] <Tom_itx> sounds like it
[16:17:06] <jymmm> http://www.mesanet.com/graphics/parallel/7i76colo.png
[16:17:15] <jdhNC> that is a 7i76
[16:23:14] <Loetmichel> re @ home
[16:23:37] <Connor> So you can run two 7i76's off of a 5i25 ?
[16:25:53] <jdhNC> that's a lot of IO
[16:26:17] <Tom_itx> especially if the 2nd one can be configured as pure io
[16:26:27] <Tom_itx> without the stepper etc stuff
[16:26:48] <Tom_itx> which would likely not be needed
[16:27:54] <Connor> Why isn't the 5i25 in the list of I/O boards in the pncconf program ?
[16:28:09] <pcw_home> You can run a 7I76 + a 7I74 --> 8 sserial cards from one 5I25 (so more than real time400 I/O points)
[16:28:33] <Tom_itx> showoff
[16:28:36] <Tom_itx> :)
[16:28:46] <JT-Shop> Connor: it is if you get the latest version of linuxcnc
[16:29:04] <Connor> I'm looking at 2.5 with the simulator..
[16:29:28] <Connor> okay, so what's the deal with 7i43 ?
[16:29:34] <JT-Shop> look here http://linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/component/kunena/?func=showcat&catid=39
[16:29:35] <Tom_itx> parport
[16:29:38] <pcw_home> Actually the 7I76 is overkill for most simple step motor systems (we may make a version with only 1/2 the I/O)
[16:29:52] <Connor> parport ?
[16:29:56] <Loetmichel> hmmm
[16:30:01] <Tom_itx> it works with the parallelport
[16:30:11] <Tom_itx> instead of pci
[16:30:14] <Connor> okay, so, instead of PCI bus..
[16:30:21] <Connor> interesting.. WHY would you do that ?
[16:30:28] <Loetmichel> where can i see a list of features of this "mesa cards"?
[16:30:36] <Tom_itx> it works fine
[16:30:38] <jdhNC> pcw: what/where are sserial IO boards?
[16:31:00] <pcw_home> bottom of AIO daughterboard page
[16:31:00] <Connor> Tom_itx: I'm sure it does.. I'm just asking.. WHY would you go that way vs PCI card ?
[16:31:01] <Tom_itx> Connor they didn't have the 5i25 when i got mine
[16:31:17] <Loetmichel> i am using lpt for now and are more or less happy with it, but like we say in germany: "the better is the enemy of the good" ;-)
[16:31:20] <Connor> what's a 5i20 ?
[16:31:24] <Tom_itx> or maybe you want the slot for something else
[16:31:41] <Tom_itx> an older pci card
[16:31:58] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop replaced that with his 5i25
[16:31:59] <Loetmichel> pcw_home: is there a website of the "mesa" company?
[16:32:05] <Tom_itx> sure is
[16:32:14] <Loetmichel> link?
[16:32:14] <Connor> one thing I don't like with PCI card, is they force you to use a external cable..
[16:32:30] <Tom_itx> www.mesanet.com
[16:32:36] <Loetmichel> thx
[16:32:42] <Tom_itx> look under 'anything io cards'
[16:32:52] <Tom_itx> and daughter cards
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[16:33:17] <JT-Shop> this one is perfect for a handful of G251's and the 7i76
[16:33:44] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop do you drive your step and direction right off the fpga?
[16:34:12] <JT-Shop> I used to with the 5i20
[16:34:17] <Tom_itx> i guess it goes thru the 7i76 anyway doesn't it?
[16:34:29] <pcw_home> The 7I76 has 5V differential buffers (like your 7I47)
[16:35:52] <JT-Shop> and this beast would be enough for a handful of g203v's https://www.antekinc.com/details.php?p=507
[16:36:53] <jdhNC> is there a 7i67?
[16:36:56] <Connor> someone should do up a wiki page showing all the different combo of FPGA + Daughter cards supported by EMC.
[16:37:08] <JT-Shop> it's on the forum
[16:37:42] <Tom_itx> pcw_home you accepting tradeins :D
[16:37:59] <JT-Shop> lol you funny
[16:38:04] <Tom_itx> jk, i like what i got just fine
[16:38:17] <Connor> JT-Shop: What is on the forum? what I just said about the wiki ? or jdhNC question about the 7i67
[16:38:20] <jdhNC> I'd have to get rid of my pci wifi card for a 5i25
[16:38:29] <JT-Shop> what you said
[16:38:40] <Connor> link?
[16:39:00] <Connor> jdhNC: You have a atom right ?
[16:39:04] <jdhNC> I'm assuming that the 7i67's are typo, or some secret card
[16:39:10] <jdhNC> connor: yep, same one.
[16:39:23] <JT-Shop> http://linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/component/kunena/?func=listcat
[16:39:36] <Connor> You can use USB Wifi, or get one of those micro wifi cards that plugs into that special socket.
[16:40:01] <JT-Shop> http://linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/forum
[16:40:02] <jdhNC> I have some USB ones, but I think they are worse for latency
[16:40:11] <jdhNC> didn't do much to verify that though.
[16:41:04] <jdhNC> also, the 7i43 just requires one cable between the computer and the enclosure
[16:42:10] <Tom_itx> handy dandy
[16:42:18] <pcw_home> same for 5I25/6I25 (with one daughtercard)
[16:42:27] <Connor> MESA is way more than I need..
[16:42:35] <Tom_itx> is the 2nd port on the 5i25 internal?
[16:42:41] <pcw_home> Yes
[16:42:44] <Tom_itx> how do you bring that out?
[16:42:50] <Tom_itx> for a daughter card
[16:42:58] <Tom_itx> 2nd backplane header?
[16:43:06] <Connor> Probably would use standard parport 25 pin header ?
[16:43:07] <pcw_home> we have the bracket/cable if you need it
[16:43:23] <pcw_home> also standard and low profile
[16:43:33] <Connor> pcw_home: You make MESA ?
[16:43:37] <Tom_itx> only have one slot though
[16:43:45] <Tom_itx> pcw is mesa or part of it
[16:44:05] <pcw_home> Yes I'm part of Mesa
[16:44:15] <Connor> Mesa needs better website. :)
[16:44:26] <jdhNC> I think he has heard that.
[16:44:31] <Tom_itx> at least once
[16:44:46] <Loetmichel> ... looks like he'll be the right guy to ask for a PCI card with LPT and floppycontroller on it which acts like isa components...
[16:44:46] <Connor> Yea, well, give us a call, we design websites. :)
[16:44:46] <pcw_home> yeah its not much changed since 1994
[16:44:58] <jdhNC> connor: put out your "will work for fpga cards" sign
[16:45:06] * Loetmichel has just some problems with a rebuildt of som mil-systems...
[16:45:20] <Loetmichel> ne CPU board-> no floppy... ONE pci slot left...
[16:45:46] <jdhNC> Loetmichel: it's 2012, ditch the floppy.
[16:46:00] <Loetmichel> jdhNC: military thinks different ;-)
[16:46:32] <Loetmichel> <- makes shielded/rugged systems for MIL/GOV ;-)
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[16:48:53] <jdhNC> 7i67/7i68 seem to be missing.
[16:49:55] <pcw_home> 7I68 is a valid PN 7I67 is not (I think JT just meant 7I76)
[16:50:20] <JT-Shop> yea, typo from too much peanut dust on fingers I think
[16:53:19] <JT-Shop> or it may be Dysgraphia
[16:54:13] <roycroft> the mesa site has two huge problems:
[16:54:24] <jdhNC> roy: way more than 2
[16:54:29] <roycroft> 1. the price list is in a frame that's unscalable, and hence, almost unreadable
[16:54:33] <roycroft> 2. no online ordering
[16:54:45] <JT-Shop> uʍopǝpısdn ǝdʎʇ ʇsnɾ ı sǝɯıʇǝɯos
[16:54:59] <roycroft> the other problems are significant, but those two certainly lose them a significant amount of business
[16:58:49] <jdhNC> perhaps that is to help self-select customers who know what they want and won't tie up extra resources.
[16:59:04] <jdhNC> other than pcw who should be on the clock when he is here.
[17:02:03] <Loetmichel> jdhNC: what tells you that he ISNT on the clock?
[17:02:07] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[17:02:27] <jdhNC> I was hoping the _home
[17:02:59] <Loetmichel> so what?
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[17:03:14] <Loetmichel> my wife is at home 90% of the time...
[17:03:19] <Loetmichel> ... homeoffice ;-)
[17:04:44] <jthornton> jdhNC, did you just register on the forum?
[17:04:49] <jdhNC> anyone know the difference between a gecko 203v 201x
[17:05:01] <jdhNC> jthornton: yes, I didn't seem to be beforehand
[17:05:23] <jthornton> did you get your conformation email?
[17:05:28] <jdhNC> nope
[17:05:44] <jthornton> check your spam filter folder
[17:05:59] <jdhNC> nope
[17:06:23] <jthornton> iirc the 203v is a newer better protected electrically drive than the 201
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[17:06:44] <jthornton> jdhNC, just sent you another one
[17:07:12] <jdhNC> got that one.
[17:07:14] -!- pingufan has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[17:07:20] <exitcode1> hmm. is there a torrent for the live cd? this download wait is killin me.
[17:07:28] <jdhNC> The G201X is the newest stepper drive from Geckodrive and is a drop-in replacement for the G201. It is built around our already proven CPLD design similar to the G203V
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[17:08:16] <IchGuckLive> jdhNC: are you in the Gecko factury
[17:08:30] * jdhNC looks around.
[17:08:31] <jthornton> torrent ain't going to download faster if your the bottleneck
[17:08:32] <jdhNC> hope not.
[17:09:07] <jthornton> jdhNC, there you go
[17:09:32] <IchGuckLive> Geckos are not available in Europ
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[17:09:46] <jthornton> yes they are iirc
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[17:10:59] <IchGuckLive> jthornton: is there a german store i dident know about
[17:11:38] <jthornton> I've seen Andy I think pop up some links but don't recall what they are
[17:11:56] <IchGuckLive> i will ask him
[17:11:56] <jthornton> or if they are German or just EU
[17:12:03] <jdhNC> it still doesn't like me.
[17:13:04] <IchGuckLive> Question around the Wire thickness for 4,2A Steppers at 50VDC what shoudt i go for 2.5m 100"
[17:13:39] <IchGuckLive> 0,5sq/mm seams to thinn
[17:13:41] <jthornton> jdhNC, your approved and should be able to post
[17:13:55] <jthornton> what is that in wire gauge?
[17:17:09] <IchGuckLive> jthornton: trying to find a trunslation
[17:17:19] <Tom_itx> 18ga
[17:17:20] <jdhNC> 22 is 0.643mm^2 so it is smaller than that
[17:17:26] <Tom_itx> should work for 4a
[17:17:33] <jdhNC> 18 is 1.02
[17:17:42] <Tom_itx> 1.02 what?
[17:17:51] <jdhNC> mm^2
[17:17:57] <IchGuckLive> mm
[17:18:04] <Tom_itx> what is mm??
[17:18:04] <IchGuckLive> mm^2
[17:18:11] <Tom_itx> never heard of it :)
[17:18:32] <IchGuckLive> so 18 is bigger then 22
[17:18:42] <Tom_itx> yes
[17:18:49] <jdhNC> of course, how else would a numbering system work
[17:18:51] <djdelorie> any tips on removing a brass oil-me fitting without marring it? http://www.delorie.com/photos/southbend-lathe/img_2614.html
[17:18:59] <jdhNC> and 00 is bigger than 0
[17:19:04] <Tom_itx> 18 is .0402" and 22 is .0205"
[17:19:32] <jdhNC> tom: in what units?
[17:19:34] <Tom_itx> 20 is .0319"
[17:19:53] <Tom_itx> 18 ga american wire size gage
[17:19:57] <IchGuckLive> thanks
[17:20:16] <Tom_itx> are ^^
[17:20:20] <Connor> jdhNC: What forum ?
[17:21:02] <archivist> djdelorie, I would put a flat on its top and tap with a tiny hammer to give it a few shocks, then grips with a sheet of rubber (try this first)
[17:21:02] <jdhNC> oh, my numbers were diameter, not mm^2
[17:21:04] <IchGuckLive> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wire#Solid_versus_stranded
[17:21:22] <Tom_itx> djdelorie is it threaded?
[17:21:29] <jdhNC> connor: linuxcnc
[17:21:35] <Connor> Ah.
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[17:21:50] <djdelorie> I asume it's threaded, since the replacement I'm hoping to get is threaded... but HIT IT? My poor antique lathe? :-(
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[17:21:58] <djdelorie> ;-)
[17:22:02] <Tom_itx> tap it
[17:22:02] <archivist> djdelorie, its possible it is taper fit dont hammer first :)
[17:22:06] <Tom_itx> there's a big difference
[17:22:15] <Tom_itx> then what archivist said...
[17:22:23] <Tom_itx> piece of rubber and pliers
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[17:22:45] <archivist> I use a watch/clockmakers hammer for little stuff
[17:22:48] <Tom_itx> it has no hex inside does it?
[17:22:52] <djdelorie> I suspect it's pipe fitting threaded, the replacements are all NPTF male
[17:23:03] <archivist> hex in 1920's!
[17:23:05] <Tom_itx> i doubt it does that old
[17:23:08] <Tom_itx> :)
[17:23:17] <djdelorie> I tried drilling a hole in hardwood, then splitting it and using it as a "gripper" but it slipped. I'll try rubber next.
[17:23:23] <djdelorie> Tom_itx: 1922
[17:23:26] <Tom_itx> back then a hex was voodoo
[17:23:43] <djdelorie> I suspect all the parts for this lathe, were made on a lathe
[17:24:26] <archivist> djdelorie, some brass will just fall apart if there is any stress corrosion cracking, just have to replace
[17:24:43] <djdelorie> hence my paranoia :-)
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[17:25:01] <archivist> I suspect it will come out easy though as it got oiled
[17:25:36] <Tom_itx> out of curiosity why does it need to?
[17:25:37] <djdelorie> and oiled and oiled and oiled and oiled...
[17:25:56] <archivist> it has a hole just oil it still :)
[17:26:07] <archivist> add a dust cap
[17:26:10] <Tom_itx> add some wick to it and call it good
[17:26:14] <djdelorie> so far I haven't found any screws or bolts that were rusted together, but that doesn't mean there'll be a first.
[17:26:16] <Tom_itx> and a hat
[17:26:16] <jdhNC> what will the replacment do better?
[17:26:32] <archivist> mine is wick feed
[17:26:33] <djdelorie> I want to put a reservoir on it so it's continuous oiled, instead of a few drops at a time
[17:26:43] <djdelorie> this model pre-dates the wick system
[17:27:26] <Tom_itx> babbit bearings?
[17:27:51] -!- ktchk [ktchk!~eddie6929@n219073070221.netvigator.com] has parted #linuxcnc
[17:28:53] <IchGuckLive> someone discoverd to work with tristed pair CAT6 capels for 4,2A Steppers
[17:29:01] <djdelorie> bronze, I think
[17:29:05] <IchGuckLive> twisted pair
[17:29:23] <Tom_itx> or they were desparate
[17:29:54] <Connor> I use 18Gauge Stranded 4 conductor alarm wire for mine.
[17:30:10] <archivist> I use mans wire
[17:30:16] <Tom_itx> 00?
[17:30:45] <archivist> thick enough not to fuse if the motor shorted :)
[17:30:56] <djdelorie> the wire feeding my house is 0000
[17:31:12] <Tom_itx> aluminum though
[17:31:45] <archivist> we dont use numbers much any more over here
[17:31:57] <djdelorie> probably, but I don't know for sure. All I know is 00 wasn't enough, we browned out the house when the A/C kicked in. They had to up the transformer too
[17:32:19] <djdelorie> 25 KVA transformer *just for us* :-)
[17:33:27] <roycroft> so do any of you folks use ssd for your linuxcnc machines?
[17:33:44] <Tom_itx> i have one but i'm not currently using it
[17:33:48] * roycroft always has concerns about putting swap partitions on ssds
[17:33:53] <Tom_itx> no reason you couldn't
[17:34:12] <djdelorie> I have an ssd on order for my desktop, but why would a cnc machine need one? Unless you want something that can stand high vibration environments, but I'd assume the pc itself would fail before modern spinny disks
[17:34:12] <roycroft> i suppose the real solution there is to have enough ram that one does not swap
[17:34:20] <jthornton> roycroft, nope
[17:34:23] <IchGuckLive> http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Wire_Gauge Translation found
[17:34:25] <djdelorie> roycroft: yup :-)
[17:34:44] <roycroft> i have disks fail all the time
[17:34:47] <jthornton> but my Discovery 308 has somthing like that due to the vibration
[17:34:49] <roycroft> rarely do main logic boards fail
[17:34:50] <Tom_itx> so you got a 'yes' 'no' and a 'maybe'
[17:34:54] <roycroft> disks fail more often than power supplies
[17:35:14] <djdelorie> jthornton: there's so much of a gap between disk speeds and ram speeds that the ONLY thing that makes sense for swap is programs that you just aren't using at all, but are "live". Better to not run them
[17:35:19] * jthornton hasn't had a disk failure in so long they are stacked up like cordwood
[17:35:25] <Tom_itx> stop kicking it every time windows freezes up
[17:35:28] <Tom_itx> it'll last longer
[17:35:33] <roycroft> windows?
[17:35:47] <djdelorie> I've had catastrophic disk failures. Enough that I always go with raid if I can. That and cooling fans are my failure points.
[17:35:47] <roycroft> i run windows in a vm for autocad
[17:35:51] <roycroft> but that's pretty much it
[17:36:05] <djdelorie> the ubuntu linuxcnc CD didn't support raid, though
[17:36:15] <roycroft> raid is overkill for a cnc controller machine
[17:36:22] <roycroft> a small ssd should suffice
[17:36:22] <Tom_itx> so go with a fanless system and that won't be the failure point
[17:36:23] <jthornton> roycroft, did you know there is a free ubuntu cad very close to acad in look and feel
[17:36:25] <roycroft> with a spare on the shelf
[17:36:33] <Tom_itx> i have a 32g ssd
[17:36:35] <roycroft> no, jthornton
[17:36:45] <roycroft> but i have many years and many thousands of dollars invested in autocad
[17:36:47] <djdelorie> Tom_itx: I need the performance
[17:36:54] <roycroft> i see no reason, for myself, to dump all that
[17:37:04] <Loetmichel> Tom_itx: so it will be roasted hardware
[17:37:10] <roycroft> if i do i'll dump it for solidworks
[17:37:21] <djdelorie> water cooling is next on my project list
[17:37:25] <roycroft> 8GB ssd should suffice for linuxcnc, i should think
[17:37:27] <Loetmichel> we use ballbearing fans with our systems... and even them fail from time to time
[17:37:27] <djdelorie> (not for the cnc machine ;)
[17:37:40] <roycroft> it's not like there's a lot for that machine to do
[17:37:44] <Tom_itx> liquid nitrogen is the way to go
[17:38:01] <Loetmichel> (had one batch cpu fans with RUST in the bearings.... the hell knows from where ;)
[17:38:03] <djdelorie> Tom_itx: problem with active cooling is condensation, it can corrode or short the motherboard
[17:38:09] <roycroft> i'm not going to run a webserver and mail server on a rts
[17:38:17] <roycroft> my intent is to run linuxcnc and nothing else on it
[17:38:30] <Tom_itx> you need minimal hardware then
[17:38:36] <djdelorie> what I *want* is a water cooling system with the pump and radiator in the basement below me :-) Gets the noise and heat out of the office
[17:38:39] <Tom_itx> 2G ram is plenty
[17:38:54] <Tom_itx> and the atom mb
[17:38:56] <Loetmichel> djdelorie: not necessary
[17:38:57] <roycroft> if 2GB of ram is plenty, i'll probably get 4GB
[17:38:57] <djdelorie> my desktop has 24G ram and 60% is actively in use at the moment
[17:38:58] <Tom_itx> and a hdd
[17:39:02] <roycroft> ram is almost free these days
[17:39:04] <Loetmichel> passive radiator is sufficient
[17:39:05] <roycroft> to a point
[17:39:05] <djdelorie> Loetmichel: you don't know my office ;-)
[17:39:06] <Loetmichel> btdt
[17:39:10] <roycroft> low-density ram is almost free
[17:39:17] <IchGuckLive> roycroft: did you see the opensource projekts on autocad users here Librecad and Heekscnc
[17:39:23] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=4050
[17:39:27] <roycroft> i've seen heekscad before
[17:39:27] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=4047
[17:39:32] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=4044
[17:39:35] <roycroft> i'm interested in the cnc product
[17:39:55] <Loetmichel> ... and that was a athlon xp 2400 -> heat plate ;-)
[17:39:55] <roycroft> if i can feed my autocad dfx files to heekscnc i'd be happy, i think
[17:40:25] <IchGuckLive> roycroft: shure
[17:40:26] <roycroft> but i'm not concerned about application software at all right now
[17:40:35] <IchGuckLive> if not go via librecad qcad
[17:40:57] <roycroft> having decided on linuxcnc for the controller machine, i know what i need to know to do the build
[17:40:59] <IchGuckLive> but it will work since R10
[17:41:17] <roycroft> once i have a working cnc mill i can worry more about how i'm going to get gcode to it
[17:41:36] <roycroft> i bought qcad
[17:41:36] <archivist> you can hand code the gcode
[17:41:39] <roycroft> it's rather lacking
[17:41:45] <roycroft> yes, archivist, and i'm sure i'll be doing a lot of that
[17:42:00] <roycroft> i think it's important to know how to do so
[17:42:03] <archivist> some of the available cam is lacking :)
[17:42:09] <roycroft> but i don't want to have to rely on hand-coding it
[17:42:14] <roycroft> especially when i'm routing pcbs
[17:42:35] <roycroft> or doing engraving work
[17:42:40] <Tom_itx> eagle has a gcode template
[17:42:46] <IchGuckLive> roycroft: librecad is the opensource equal to qcad for free
[17:43:31] <roycroft> i'll only look at alternate 2d cad software if i find autocad doesn't generate the right stuff for me
[17:43:33] <roycroft> otherwise i don't see the point
[17:44:33] <Tom_itx> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html/gui/ngcgui.html
[17:45:28] <roycroft> i've been looking at solidworks a lot lately, and i may decide to go there
[17:45:44] <roycroft> i've let my autocad support lapse long enough (i'm on 2008) that i'd have to pay full price to upgrade
[17:45:55] <Tom_itx> you'd need a cam addon for it
[17:46:02] <roycroft> so now is the time to look at other options
[17:46:04] <roycroft> yes, i know
[17:46:23] <IchGuckLive> roycroft: spindel ß
[17:46:30] <IchGuckLive> O.O
[17:49:40] -!- _abc_ [_abc_!~user@unaffiliated/ccbbaa] has joined #linuxcnc
[17:50:16] <_abc_> Hello. Do you people test your homemade machines mechanically? Like pulling from the spindle (still) with a dynamometer to determine the Young modulus and other such things?
[17:50:28] * _abc_ would like to do some simple tests
[17:50:53] <IchGuckLive> ofcause we do
[17:51:00] <roycroft> a simple test is to make stuff :)
[17:51:04] <_abc_> how?
[17:51:14] <_abc_> roycroft: yes but that is umm not so perfect
[17:51:22] <IchGuckLive> gauge and drive around
[17:51:32] <_abc_> that is for planeity
[17:51:46] <djdelorie> I use a dial indicator and just push on the router head, see what happens.
[17:51:51] <_abc_> some people take a layer out of the table covering to make it straight
[17:51:55] <IchGuckLive> i got a Newton meter to see when it stalls
[17:52:14] <_abc_> djdelorie: I know what happens, what I want, is a table to compare various designs...
[17:52:28] <_abc_> Is there such a table online? I bet not? Should there be one? I think so...
[17:52:29] <IchGuckLive> _abc_: depending on the mashine construction
[17:52:34] <_abc_> IchGuckLive: exactly
[17:53:12] <IchGuckLive> _abc_: there are somany different styles that need all differend things
[17:53:19] <IchGuckLive> _abc_: so not needet
[17:53:32] <_abc_> table parameters would be: machine type (dyi is ok), eventually photo, size of work area x y z, claimed accuracy& precision (step size), and center of xyz space dyno+dial measurements
[17:53:35] <IchGuckLive> everyone shoudt test his needs
[17:53:51] <_abc_> Would people here cooperate if I'd start such a thing?
[17:54:00] <IchGuckLive> NO
[17:54:07] <_abc_> Counted one nay
[17:54:16] <IchGuckLive> i got around 50 Mashines homemade running
[17:54:28] <_abc_> IchGuckLive: so?
[17:54:33] <_abc_> IchGuckLive: too shy? :)
[17:54:45] <IchGuckLive> and only the 30 on education are in most parts the same
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[17:55:03] <_abc_> Still, what is your reason for not publishing any numbers?
[17:55:20] <IchGuckLive> what mumbers
[17:55:52] <_abc_> as above, xyz size, step size and gauge deflection when pulling spindle with a 100N dynamometer in 6 directions...
[17:56:20] <_abc_> well 5N would be enough
[17:56:24] <_abc_> maybe even 1N
[17:56:35] <_abc_> Some people are into watchmaking machines
[17:56:45] <IchGuckLive> noone is interested in this since im here for 2Years
[17:56:56] <_abc_> okay there's always something new heh?
[17:56:57] <_abc_> :)
[17:57:14] <Tom_itx> IchGuckLive has a fan!
[17:57:25] <_abc_> Tom_itx: how many blades on it? :)
[17:57:40] <IchGuckLive> i only need 4by 4by2 inch you need more so yours is todaly differend in all numbers
[17:57:43] * _abc_ sips cold coffee from the morning and makes unpleasant noises
[17:58:05] <_abc_> IchGuckLive: I am not going to push about the Young modulus and how it relates to other things
[17:58:09] <_abc_> Apparent modulus
[17:58:24] <djdelorie> my lathe is an antique, it only has an Old modulus
[17:58:42] <IchGuckLive> as here every Continent is activ there is no togeter needs for this
[17:58:55] <_abc_> djdelorie: you scared me, I thought you will say it has an Imperial one...
[17:59:44] <IchGuckLive> Linuxcnc is the ony all we got in this fact
[17:59:52] <Loetmichel> _abc_ $me shudders by the sole thought of cold coffee
[17:59:56] <_abc_> I sort of see how that works IchGuckLive
[18:00:02] <IchGuckLive> and all we love IT B) :D O.o
[18:00:49] <archivist> _abc_, I think a table of data is a good idea, link it to Schlesinger specs
[18:01:11] <_abc_> Speaking of IT, is there a jog control version which has more buttons on the front panel (as opposed to on the menu?)
[18:01:17] <archivist> _abc_, but not all are capable of the measurements
[18:01:22] <_abc_> archivist: of course
[18:01:27] <IchGuckLive> _abc_: what do you expect of all your work if 80% of the people can maybe not affort your best
[18:01:45] <_abc_> archivist: I was thinking of providing a simple gauge and dyno to be self made from some standard material like FR4
[18:01:58] <_abc_> IchGuckLive: I don't expect anything
[18:02:14] <Loetmichel> _abc_: you mean this measurements? -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12623
[18:02:20] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12626
[18:02:22] <_abc_> I expect hobbyists to learn by sharing designs (some of which are wacky), and to compare some hard numbers with real machines too
[18:02:25] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12629
[18:02:27] <_abc_> That can lead to progress
[18:02:29] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12632
[18:02:29] <IchGuckLive> ok it will maybe help someone somwhere sometime
[18:02:33] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12635
[18:03:12] <IchGuckLive> Loetmichel: is this the new spindel from the chinese
[18:03:18] <Loetmichel> it is
[18:03:25] <IchGuckLive> looks good
[18:03:27] <Loetmichel> but the SPINDLE is not flexing ;-)
[18:03:33] <archivist> _abc_, see if you can find a cheap copy of "testing machine tools" 8th ed Schlesinger
[18:03:37] <_abc_> Loetmichel: yes but with a calibrated dynamometer pulling and pushing :)
[18:03:51] <Loetmichel> _abc_: to much effort
[18:04:09] <IchGuckLive> Loetmichel: with a 0.0001 meter ß
[18:04:10] <_abc_> archivist: I can't find that here but my old school friend is a fine mech eng. and I will call him about his books...
[18:04:19] <Loetmichel> the ~50N i had pushed are enough calibrated
[18:04:23] <IchGuckLive> or only 0.0
[18:04:44] <IchGuckLive> for that price whow
[18:05:03] <Loetmichel> IchGuckLive: one turn of the indicator is 1mm
[18:05:09] -!- motioncontrol has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
[18:05:11] <IchGuckLive> how are the collets looking ER11 you got
[18:05:25] <Loetmichel> it flexes about 0,1mm sideways @ roughly 50N
[18:05:59] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=13221 <- like this ;-)
[18:06:03] <_abc_> 50N is a lot for that thin thing, no?
[18:06:15] <Loetmichel> _abc_: it is
[18:06:22] <Loetmichel> its only a mini mill
[18:06:34] <Loetmichel> 200*110*110mm moving space
[18:07:05] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12569
[18:07:45] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12811 <- from another angle
[18:08:19] <IchGuckLive> Loetmichel: stil on L297/298
[18:09:05] <Loetmichel> surprisingly it doesent flex forward/backwards (i.e: not measurable to my capabilities)
[18:09:11] <Loetmichel> IchGuckLive: sure
[18:09:18] <_abc_> One linuxcnc demo question: The demo program which is in linucnc from cdrom live demo, has I and J instructions on almost every line. What are they supposed to do?
[18:09:25] <IchGuckLive> yeh thats fun
[18:09:28] <Loetmichel> but new PSU, now 32V instead of 24 ;-)
[18:09:47] <Loetmichel> _abc_: circles/arcs
[18:10:02] <_abc_> I know what they are used for but what do they do in the code?
[18:10:03] <Loetmichel> man g02/g03
[18:10:18] <_abc_> Wait, the round shapes are approximated with arcs instead of lines?
[18:10:24] * _abc_ facepalms
[18:10:26] <Loetmichel> harhar
[18:10:56] <_abc_> I am so used to the Chinese crippled controller we use at work I don't even imagine such luxury heh
[18:11:17] <IchGuckLive> Loetmichel: you are getting profi like ! 48 is next but not on Mechapro
[18:11:42] <_abc_> Loetmichel: at how many volts will the axes levitate and reach the speed of sound... ? :)
[18:11:57] <_abc_> Anyway what do you suggest as dust apron/box/sock to cover the work?
[18:12:09] <IchGuckLive> _abc_: the next generation of linuxcnc has R for arcs in the G2/3
[18:12:13] <_abc_> I saw a cool design which looks like a transparent curtain
[18:12:21] <_abc_> IchGuckLive: nice
[18:12:43] <IchGuckLive> pull a git or a branch
[18:12:44] <_abc_> I mean a curtain that rides on the spindle and the vacuum is attached to it
[18:12:54] <Loetmichel> _abc_: for sheet work: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=4287
[18:12:57] <IchGuckLive> _abc_: http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/
[18:13:09] <_abc_> IchGuckLive: I know a little trigonometry and I wrote some gcode by hand. I and J don't scare me
[18:13:25] -!- motioncontrol [motioncontrol!~io@host33-77-dynamic.17-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #linuxcnc
[18:13:31] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=4403&g2_imageViewsIndex=1 <- at work
[18:13:48] <IchGuckLive> ok but the new 2.5 is to be the thing you need to start
[18:13:55] <_abc_> Loetmichel: interesting, what I saw is like your thing but the entire bottom part is a curtain of semiflexible plastic with 'finges' cut into it from the bottom
[18:14:06] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/MC/MK_v13_bohren.MOV <- the big one working
[18:14:44] <IchGuckLive> im off By
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[18:15:05] <_abc_> Loetmichel: you plumbed the vacuum through the flexes?
[18:15:07] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=4935&g2_imageViewsIndex=1 <- here a photo of the big machine milling its bed
[18:15:38] <Loetmichel> _abc_: right
[18:16:07] <_abc_> Loetmichel: does it work okay?
[18:16:22] <Loetmichel> it did for the kress
[18:16:40] <Loetmichel> as we got the isel spindle: to small ;-)
[18:19:25] <_abc_> Hm I milled some parts from pertinax/phenolic and I had this ominous smell about me and the parts lingering for days...
[18:19:37] <_abc_> I need to do more about getting the smoke and fumes out
[18:20:09] <Loetmichel> mill slower ;-)
[18:20:18] <_abc_> Loetmichel: wait, your Y double axes have a multiplying belt drive?
[18:20:27] <Loetmichel> i mill phenolic all the time... no fumes
[18:20:30] <_abc_> Loetmichel: I was short on time and I had to push the button
[18:20:40] <Loetmichel> _abc_: right
[18:20:42] <_abc_> Loetmichel: 1.5 hours for something only 20x12 cm
[18:20:50] <Loetmichel> had
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[18:21:03] <_abc_> Loetmichel: so what is the real step size?
[18:21:04] <Loetmichel> that was a machine i build for my ex-boss
[18:21:15] <_abc_> ex heh
[18:21:34] <Loetmichel> he sold the model airplane comany to berlin, about 600km away
[18:21:47] <Loetmichel> i didnt want to move, so i had to see for a new job
[18:22:00] <_abc_> ok
[18:22:15] <Loetmichel> ehrm, the bet wasnt multiplyuing, just syncing the 2 leadscrews
[18:22:37] <_abc_> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=4403&g2_imageViewsIndex=1 here
[18:22:49] <Loetmichel> ah, thet you mean
[18:22:58] <Loetmichel> it was 200 teps/mm
[18:23:01] <Loetmichel> steps
[18:23:22] <_abc_> the motor?
[18:23:35] <Loetmichel> 4mm pitch leadscrew, 200 steps stepper, 1/4 step drive
[18:23:40] <_abc_> That looks like 1:3 gearing by the belt and pulleys
[18:23:43] <Loetmichel> 1:2
[18:23:52] <_abc_> okay
[18:24:07] <_abc_> And you have enough torque after that?
[18:24:26] <Loetmichel> more than enough, that were 1,8Nm 3A motors
[18:24:53] <Loetmichel> enough to get me some blue and black thumbs
[18:24:55] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[18:25:11] <_abc_> heh
[18:25:20] <Loetmichel> (getting it between x-carriage and ganty ISNT a good idea ith the machine is homing ;)
[18:26:39] <_abc_> Loetmichel: what kind of weird PC is that you use? Looks like ex army or something
[18:27:09] <Loetmichel> was a REALLY old "portable" from the time before laptops
[18:27:23] <Loetmichel> 133 is the (pentium one) clock
[18:27:28] <Loetmichel> in MHz
[18:27:41] <Loetmichel> ant with a plasma monochiome display
[18:28:08] <Loetmichel> <- sorts his fingers typos are getting up again ;-)
[18:29:01] <Loetmichel> ACTUAL military laptops look more like this: http://www.cordsen.com/index.php/rugged/laptop/58-rugged/laptop-rugged/144
[18:29:15] <Loetmichel> ... i know, i build them @ work ;-)
[18:29:38] <_abc_> heh
[18:29:48] <Loetmichel> s/build/modify
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[18:29:56] <_abc_> Loetmichel: well I did not say laptop, you said that :)
[18:30:05] <frallzor> hello laddies
[18:30:29] <Loetmichel> (thats the company i work for at the moment)
[18:30:38] <_abc_> okay
[18:32:41] <Loetmichel> nice side effect: i had the opertunity to get a SBC including backplane for the CNC of my co-worker from my boss for free
[18:32:56] <_abc_> heh
[18:32:59] <Loetmichel> ant nothing bigger would have fit inside the machine...
[18:33:08] <_abc_> nice
[18:33:29] <_abc_> I only knew the Bullfrog ones before this, yours looks tougher...
[18:33:37] <_abc_> Knew by seeing them on the net...
[18:34:04] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=13149 <- was a press fit, the CPU board. (lower opening)
[18:35:05] <Loetmichel> i am just "painting" the PCB for the Stepper power/spindle/vacuum relais/indicator leds...
[18:35:18] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=13242
[18:35:43] <_abc_> heh you have a camera glued to your hand
[18:35:44] <Loetmichel> then i am done with the electronics and can make the x and Z carriage
[18:35:53] <Loetmichel> ?
[18:35:53] <_abc_> Do you have time to do work in between? :)
[18:35:57] <_abc_> Kidding
[18:36:15] <Loetmichel> no, just have the cam always beside me
[18:36:22] <_abc_> I don't have time to document my work usually
[18:36:36] <_abc_> I just poke my cell phone at it and then I have to fly
[18:36:42] <_abc_> I mean go on to other things
[18:37:16] <_abc_> Ah yes, Target
[18:37:18] <Loetmichel> even @ the company, there i have to ask the "security attendant" before discloing them, of course
[18:37:41] <Loetmichel> disclosing
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[18:38:31] <_abc_> I can believe that
[18:38:41] <Loetmichel> atm i have to test a modified CPU box for enough cooling... so i build a makeshift climate chamber... http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=13245
[18:38:46] <_abc_> Except I never work for nda etc companies
[18:38:52] <_abc_> I had bad experiences in the past
[18:38:54] <Loetmichel> ... impossible isnt in my set of words ;-)
[18:39:16] <_abc_> Loetmichel: if you have enough time and an understanding family...
[18:39:54] <djdelorie> _abc_: I work for Red Hat, where everything is open source, but we still deal with NDAs between us and customers
[18:40:23] <_abc_> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=4851 Loetmichel quadcopter skeleton?
[18:40:34] <_abc_> djdelorie: your choice
[18:40:49] <_abc_> djdelorie: as I said, I have bad previous experiences, and am an inventive guy
[18:40:59] <_abc_> djdelorie: bad combination for me to sign other's nda's
[18:41:20] <djdelorie> my point is, NDAs are "standard issue" in corporate life. You just need to understand what the NDA means and how it affects you
[18:41:29] <djdelorie> there are bad NDAs and good NDAs
[18:41:43] <_abc_> djdelorie: I'm in EU. We don't touch nda's except at gunpoint and then only to tear them up
[18:41:50] <djdelorie> :-)
[18:42:21] <_abc_> djdelorie: also crazy contracts with complicated defaulting clauses are thrown out together with whomever brought them
[18:42:44] <_abc_> and I do not EVER work for anything state related, interior ministry, army, plainclothes or not.
[18:42:54] <_abc_> that has got to do with my previous bad experiences
[18:43:12] <_abc_> simply no service, the 'public sector' as defined above does not exist for me
[18:45:47] <andypugh> I admit that the NDAs on my University research put a bit of a dent in my publications record.
[18:46:32] <andypugh> The government decided that all research should have an industrial sponsor, so we got them. Then for some reason the sponsors wanted to keep what they had paid for.
[18:46:58] <_abc_> That being said, I have had to turn out some 'Chinese' quality products and I am sorry for that, because the people I worked with simply did not do what I told them to do and I could not be everywhere.
[18:47:26] <_abc_> andypugh: where?
[18:47:41] <frallzor> http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/4400/ssdrackmonterad.jpg todays fun =)
[18:47:56] <_abc_> andypugh: I mean which country/jurisdiction?
[18:48:00] <andypugh> _abc_ Sheffield and Leeds.
[18:48:04] <_abc_> andypugh: ah
[18:48:19] <_abc_> andypugh: interesting spin on 'free' university research
[18:48:51] <_abc_> andypugh: they basically hired the university to do their research and you got into that as a free worker somehow?!
[18:49:02] <_abc_> andypugh: did they pay you at least?!
[18:49:06] * _abc_ can't believe this
[18:49:19] <andypugh> Oh, yes, I got paid pretty well.
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[18:49:31] <_abc_> okay then you're sort of even
[18:49:41] <Loetmichel> _abc_: correct, quatcopter chassis
[18:49:45] <Loetmichel> -t+d
[18:49:59] <andypugh> Except that after a while your academic progress depends on your publication record.
[18:50:09] <alex4nder-> hey
[18:50:21] <_abc_> andypugh: of course
[18:50:45] <_abc_> andypugh: I was under the impression that there are some stringent rules for doing work for money and nda's while in a University
[18:50:54] <_abc_> andypugh: to keep the 2 separate
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[18:51:13] <_abc_> I assume that you knew what you were getting into?
[18:51:15] <andypugh> There are some extremely limiting ones coming in from the EU.
[18:51:21] <_abc_> andypugh: yes
[18:51:34] <_abc_> andypugh: In the EU I think it's totally illegal to do what you did
[18:51:42] <andypugh> Basically saying that no-opne can take both public and private money, you have to be fully fuinded by one or the other.
[18:51:48] <_abc_> yes
[18:52:16] <_abc_> And that is good because universities are subsidized by taxes and private firms are NOT
[18:52:21] <andypugh> Wheres at the time the UK government policy was that every project had to be 50% funded by industry.
[18:52:24] <_abc_> (and it's not legal for them to be so)
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[18:53:42] <andypugh> It's going to make a lot of the tie-ins really hard to administer. For example Sheffield University has a partnership with Boeing in a materials research lab.
[18:54:06] <_abc_> Anyway anyone who pays taxes or studies is pissed off at private companies moving into universities, paying their way relatively cheaply for access to publically funded labs and people and then carrying off the proceeds of the research.
[18:54:54] <_abc_> Meanwhile you have things like lab room shortages and too few staff to attend and counsel students because they are all taken up by private money making
[18:55:15] <_abc_> Anyway I was not near a university in several years
[18:55:58] <andypugh> I think the idea was that the industrial sponsor pays money to the university, so the taxpayer subsidises it less. Personally I don't see any reason at all that that should be illegal. Apart from anything else I got to study some quite interesting things.
[18:56:18] <_abc_> andypugh: yes but we will never know about them because of the nda
[18:56:33] <_abc_> andypugh: you could have done that on company time and pay in as far as I am concerned
[18:56:47] <_abc_> andypugh: and left your place at university open for someone else who would have published
[18:57:05] <andypugh> It expired after a couple of years. But by then I had moved on to the next project and writing a paper on it was too much trouble.
[18:57:14] <_abc_> andypugh: I think here in the EU professors must take a sabattical to go and work in industry
[18:57:52] <_abc_> andypugh: also political people cannot be also business operators/directors etc
[18:57:58] <_abc_> same reason
[18:58:10] <_abc_> you can't have the kinfe and the bread in your hands at the same time
[18:59:12] <Loetmichel> maybe the funding of universitys should be free to do for companys, but the results of the research should be made Publich domain by law...
[18:59:19] <djdelorie> the big controversy in the US is: who owns the results of the research? Are they public, owned by the university, or owned by the corporate sponsor?
[18:59:22] <Loetmichel> hows that for a compromise=
[18:59:24] <Loetmichel> ?
[18:59:51] <_abc_> Loetmichel: all sign the nda and nobody talks?
[19:00:06] <Loetmichel> _abc_: no nda applicable, by law
[19:00:10] <Loetmichel> problem solved
[19:00:29] <_abc_> djdelorie: the fair way is for whoever paid or initiated the project to set the terms of publication from start
[19:00:40] <djdelorie> that doesn't work if the funding is mixed
[19:01:01] <_abc_> djdelorie: f.ex. the us army's works are in the public domain by law, for that reason (entirely paid for by taxes)
[19:01:36] <_abc_> djdelorie: a university can choose to become a private think-tank but then it cannot be called a university and enjoy university freedoms and privileges, and will be taxed like any business and not subsidized
[19:01:52] <_abc_> djdelorie: mixed funding always has a starter, and contributors
[19:02:00] <_abc_> djdelorie: the starter determines the project and the needs
[19:02:05] <djdelorie> you make it sound simple, but in practice, it's a mess
[19:02:06] <_abc_> djdelorie: the others can contribute or not
[19:02:12] <_abc_> djdelorie: of course it is a mess
[19:02:29] <djdelorie> fyi, you don't have to put my nick on every single message. I'm paying attention ;-)
[19:02:43] <_abc_> djdelorie: basically, I refuse to deal with or waste time with organizations and universites which do not publish their work
[19:02:55] <_abc_> djdelorie: sorry, I am used to tab it in...
[19:03:05] <_abc_> it is needed for crowded channels
[19:03:08] <_abc_> :)
[19:03:17] <djdelorie> my client beeps differently if my nick is mentioned, too
[19:03:26] <_abc_> I guessed as much. Sorry.
[19:03:49] <djdelorie> nice thing about working at Red Hat - every bit of code I write ends up being open source :-)
[19:04:22] <_abc_> So anyway I even blocked some notorious $$$ sucking sites from web searches here to avoid wasting time. I read like 20-30 pdf datasheets per day and I refuse to deal with bullshit login and opt in and other crap
[19:04:25] <alex4nder-> for better or for worse. ;)
[19:05:11] <andypugh> Thinking about it, my PhD was industrially funded too. They provided the research samples and the question (do elements diffuse far during optical fibre drawing) and I worked as a full-time employee of the university doing the research. There would have been no way to get samples of those experimental fibres any other way. However that project was published immeditely. Maybe because the industrial sponsor was also a
[19:05:11] <andypugh> nationalised company.
[19:05:13] <_abc_> elsev*** is one for example
[19:05:47] <_abc_> andypugh: yes, that can make some sense
[19:06:11] <_abc_> andypugh: there are also companies which publish their work in their entirety and build their good name in science and engineering circles based on it
[19:06:40] <_abc_> andypugh: of course they hold patents on the stuff and some of the things they pull off are unique and not 'copyable'
[19:06:58] <_abc_> for technical reasons, purely
[19:07:19] <_abc_> (although I would not bet on the great Red Copycat not doing that)
[19:08:23] <djdelorie> _abc_: I get the impression you have some issues with this topic, could you elaborate? ;-)
[19:08:31] <andypugh> Anyway. Calm down. This is meant to be about linuxCNC.
[19:10:38] <_abc_> djdelorie: which topic? :)
[19:10:59] <_abc_> I am not in the Great Red Copycat country
[19:11:00] <Connor> so, that PARAMETER_FILE = sim.var under the [RS274NGC] needs to be added/updated to the wiki for ngcgui
[19:11:16] <Connor> and, what exactly WHY does it need to know that file and what is that for ?
[19:11:49] <jthornton> what is it?
[19:12:08] <Connor> I don't know.. andypugh said to add it in because that was breaking my config.
[19:12:22] <jthornton> ngcgui doesn't care about a var file but LinuxCNC does
[19:12:41] <jdhNC> Connor: I added the ngcgui stuff as described in the examples and it worked. The only problem I noticed was that it didn't add an m2/%
[19:12:44] <Connor> Yea. but, unless you have it under that [RS274NGC] heading, it complains.
[19:13:00] <jthornton> rtfm in the integrators manual in the ini section
[19:13:12] <jthornton> it being what?
[19:14:59] <jthornton> what is "it" in "it complains"?
[19:15:05] <Connor> Can not find -sec RS274NGC -var PARAMETER_FILE -num 1
[19:16:08] <Connor> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html/gui/ngcgui.html says NOTHING about PARAMETER_FILE
[19:16:19] <jthornton> like I said before over and over it has nothing to do with ngcgui
[19:16:40] <jthornton> read the integrators manual ini section
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[19:18:04] <Connor> It should still be in that WIKI entry.. because the wiki talks about [RS274NGC]
[19:18:47] <jthornton> does it list every thing in every section even if it is unrelated to ngcgui?
[19:18:52] <Connor> the sample INI file they have listed 1/3rd the way down.. is WRONG.
[19:18:59] <jthornton> feel free to change the wiki any way you see fit
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[19:19:48] <Connor> correction.. not the wiki.. the docs..
[19:19:52] <Connor> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html/gui/ngcgui.html
[19:21:56] <jthornton> the only things in that section pertain to ngcgui specific items. General ini settings are in the ini section of the manual
[19:24:33] <Connor> maybe their is a [RS274NGC] section in my original config (on my production box) that was below the display, instead of above it as I though by looking at that sample..
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[19:24:43] <jthornton> I don't see any axis sections in the sample is that WRONG
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[19:25:06] <Connor> brb
[19:25:13] <jthornton> there has to be a [RS274NGC] section or your config won't run
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[19:31:12] <Connor> okay, mystery solved. I added that [RS274NGC] above display, not realizing that one existed below. without the parameter file.
[19:31:25] <jthornton> YIPPIE!
[19:31:27] <Connor> the first took precedence over the lower one.. and thus, broke my config.
[19:31:44] <jthornton> yep
[19:31:54] <Connor> when I commented it out.. including the path stuff.. it ran.. but I had to have all my ngcgui stuff in one directory.
[19:32:00] <jdhNC> so, what about that postamble/m2 thing?
[19:32:26] <jthornton> it adds m2 for me
[19:32:34] <Connor> so, the docs were right.. but, slightly miss-leading.
[19:32:44] <jthornton> used to be yes
[19:32:46] <Connor> okay. I have to run.. back in a few hours.
[19:32:55] <jthornton> check the docs when you return
[19:33:36] <jdhNC> jthornton: did you have/add a postamble file?
[19:34:21] <jthornton> I didn't add one
[19:35:26] <jthornton> last line for me (ngcgui: m2 line added) m2 (g54 activated)
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[20:33:37] <andypugh> jthornton: It would be rather annoying to buy a new transformer and still have a problem, wouldn't it?
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[20:44:08] <DJ9DJ> gn8
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[20:52:33] <frallzor> go faster or slower to avoid smearing of alu?
[20:52:47] <frallzor> trying to figure out a sheet of unknown alloy
[20:53:12] <frallzor> as it is atm it works pretty fine with cooling, sliiiight smear but nothing a file cant fix
[20:53:26] <frallzor> increase feed or decrease?
[20:53:52] <Loetmichel> more feed, less rpm, less depth.
[20:53:58] <Loetmichel> afaik
[20:53:59] <archivist> lubricate while cutting with a sharp tool
[20:54:20] <frallzor> depth is allready good enough, so I assume feed is next
[20:54:30] <frallzor> 0.5mm is nothing =)
[20:54:41] * Loetmichel uses 0,2mm normally
[20:54:52] <archivist> best finish is climb milling but your machine must be solid, no backlash
[20:55:04] <Loetmichel> but mor 'cause my machine isnt buildt for alu than for smearing
[20:55:31] <frallzor> climb = CCW?
[20:56:26] <frallzor> no issues doing 2mm for me with a nice machinable alloy, but sheets arent usually of that alloy
[20:58:24] <archivist> frallzor, google climb milling vs conventional milling
[20:58:46] <frallzor> well I assume it is CW vs CCW
[20:58:55] <Loetmichel> worst i have milled: the 0,6mm sheeting for roof top plating on the sides and gutters
[20:58:57] <frallzor> along the material or "digging into it"
[20:59:06] <Loetmichel> its like al99.9
[20:59:12] <Loetmichel> like chewing gum
[20:59:51] <archivist> frallzor, you can climb either way :)
[20:59:54] <andypugh> frallzor: No, you always have to mill with a CW spindle.
[21:00:06] <andypugh> (Well, with every cutter I have seen)
[21:00:10] <frallzor> well I mean how the tool moves =)
[21:00:25] <frallzor> cutting a circle CW vs CCW
[21:00:36] <andypugh> Internal or external?
[21:00:44] <archivist> inside or outside!
[21:00:57] <frallzor> same if I think right about conventional vs climb?
[21:01:07] <frallzor> just different directions?
[21:01:25] <archivist> do that google I mentioned :)
[21:01:56] <Loetmichel> frallzor: normally the tool moves "into" the material
[21:01:58] <frallzor> like I assumed
[21:02:07] <frallzor> along or into material =)
[21:02:16] <Loetmichel> climb milling it moves out
[21:02:31] <frallzor> which is the same in my world as CW vs CCW paths =)
[21:02:39] <archivist> then think why a slot the width of an endmill never turns out the way you expected
[21:03:13] <frallzor> never tried that =P
[21:03:17] <Loetmichel> in german its "gleichlauffraesen" for climb milling and "gegenlauffraesen" for the "normal" milling
[21:03:48] <Loetmichel> meaning: the mill bit turns into the material or cutting from the inside out
[21:04:02] <archivist> I hug my horizontal mill for slots
[21:04:29] <Loetmichel> climb milling tends to press the mill bit OUT of the cut, normal milling thend to draw it in
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[21:13:29] <elmo40> Loetmichel: I don't see how that is true
[21:14:01] <elmo40> with conventional you are rubbing the first degree or so before the tool makes the cut. that pushes the tool out.
[21:15:04] <Loetmichel> depends
[21:15:33] <Loetmichel> teh cut is the heaviest when the cutting edge is straight forward
[21:16:23] <elmo40> climb milling gives a better finish because you start with a large cut and end with a lighter cut. conventional is the opposite.
[21:16:27] <Loetmichel> so the cutter ist pressed in the direction opposite to the turning edge
[21:16:44] <archivist> and with a 4 tooth endmill will be pulling the next INTO engagement
[21:17:25] <Loetmichel> i have made the experience that 2 flute cutters tend to go into the cut with climb milling and out of the cut with conventional
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[21:17:53] <archivist> the finish problem is more to do with re-cutting the chips and welding them to the side
[21:18:01] <Loetmichel> ahem, the other way round
[21:18:32] <archivist> you dont re-cut with climb
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[21:26:18] <elmo40> Loetmichel: what machines are you cutting with, cnc?
[21:26:40] <elmo40> I find zero reason to conventional machine
[21:27:31] <Loetmichel> elmo40: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12811
[21:28:08] <elmo40> ballscrews?
[21:28:12] <elmo40> or acme threads
[21:28:17] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12569
[21:28:24] <Loetmichel> acme 10mm*3mm
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[21:28:59] <frallzor> acme with mechanical backlash solutions is pretty nice
[21:29:08] <Loetmichel> but delrin nuts wit backlas compensated by spring
[21:29:28] <elmo40> backlash, even though it may be small, will make the tool seem to cut larger or smaller.
[21:29:42] <Loetmichel> no, there IS no backlash
[21:29:47] <Loetmichel> not even the slightest
[21:30:05] <elmo40> conventional machining is used in those situations so the tool doesn't pull the material into the cut.
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[21:30:18] <elmo40> *into the cutter
[21:30:29] <Loetmichel> the nuts are cut in half and put together by a screw/springloaded
[21:30:43] <elmo40> with conventional you always have to push harder because the cutter is pushing away.
[21:30:52] <Loetmichel> and the spring has mire N than the cutting forces
[21:31:07] <Loetmichel> more force
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[21:48:35] <ScribbleJ> http://i.imgur.com/u1Xgb.jpg What a horrifying thought.
[21:52:39] <Loetmichel> hrhr
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[21:52:57] <Loetmichel> reminds me of "morbus vorwerk" ;-)
[21:53:39] * Spida shudders
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[23:04:43] <andypugh> Argh! I found a stupid error in my code, fixed it, and now it doesn't work at all, rather than working badly.
[23:35:42] <jthornton> sounds like my VMC
[23:35:55] <andypugh> Solved it.
[23:36:17] <andypugh> It was something I had forgotten I had done, and not considered the consequences.
[23:36:52] <andypugh> I had set the thread period to 1 second, because I was printing to dmesg inside the thread, and was filling the SSD..
[23:37:11] <andypugh> But, the watchdog timeout was still 5mS.
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[23:48:00] <robin_sz> http://uemfab.blog.com/files/2012/05/eew-machenbau-jpg1.jpg
[23:48:58] <jthornton> now I just need someone to email me an isolation transformer
[23:49:31] <andypugh> robin_sz: Is that CF?
[23:49:34] <jthornton> nice foam cutter
[23:50:02] <andypugh> The tool seems unnecessarily small
[23:51:19] <andypugh> I guess that the actual hullform is already there on the outside, and they are adjusting the foam thickness / putting in the solid ribs.
[23:52:19] <robin_sz> I suspect they laid up a plywood , oversize mould
[23:52:33] <robin_sz> then foamed it and trimmed it back with the 5 axis
[23:52:48] <robin_sz> dimensions? 151m X ...
[23:53:14] <robin_sz> 9m Y ...
[23:53:16] <andypugh> Well, the boat I sailed on had a glass/foam/glass hull and a glass/balsa/glass deck
[23:53:31] * robin_sz nods
[23:53:53] <andypugh> (and they seem commendably tough compared to a Volvo boat, but then they are 5x the weight)
[23:54:00] <robin_sz> there are ways of doing that without a mould
[23:54:19] <robin_sz> however, most of the foam core stuff is vacuum bagged
[23:54:24] <robin_sz> so needs a mould
[23:54:52] <robin_sz> im currently looking at doing a ply/foam/glass construction on a racing dinghy
[23:55:35] <andypugh> http://yachte.com/news/story.asp?story=35101
[23:55:58] <andypugh> Definitely using a mould. They are also making 12 with an option on 15, so why not?
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