#linuxcnc | Logs for 2012-05-14

[00:08:21] <SolarNRG> Have any of you guys ever worked with platinum cure for molding before?
[00:10:16] <alex4nder> you mean silicone?
[00:10:28] <JT-Shop> SolarNRG: have you considered sprocket and chain for your solar tracking thingy
[00:10:53] <JT-Shop> much cheaper than gears
[00:11:09] <alex4nder> yah and forgiving
[00:11:26] <SolarNRG> you can't tap a flat bicycle gear onto a motor rotor
[00:11:49] <JT-Shop> why not?
[00:11:59] <JT-Shop> motor cycles do it
[00:12:14] <alex4nder> (and electric bicycles)
[00:12:21] <JT-Shop> aye
[00:12:31] <SolarNRG> I'm sure you're right, but if I can make my own gears that would be fantastic
[00:12:47] <alex4nder> why you always trying to piss uphill?
[00:12:55] <JT-Shop> lol
[00:13:14] <SolarNRG> Because I've bought some platinum cure now its too late to go back
[00:13:18] <alex4nder> I mean, if your goal is to make gears, that's great.
[00:13:24] <SolarNRG> I'm molding my 3d printed gears
[00:13:28] <ReadError> amazon smallparts sells gears :)
[00:13:47] <alex4nder> sup ReadError
[00:13:48] <ReadError> man i was just browsing there the other day
[00:13:48] <ReadError> tons of cool stuff :)
[00:13:56] <ReadError> got frustrated with solidworks
[00:14:10] <ReadError> so im down in the basement hitting some iron and having a beer ;p
[00:14:17] <alex4nder> nice
[00:14:18] <SolarNRG> I take it you guys aren't into molding
[00:14:20] <alex4nder> what're you making?
[00:14:26] <alex4nder> SolarNRG: I just molded some concrete
[00:14:27] * JT-Shop loves SolidWorks
[00:14:34] <SolarNRG> What did you use, latex?
[00:14:37] <alex4nder> foam
[00:14:40] <ReadError> alex4nder, well, my dad has this knife it came with a polymer grip
[00:14:40] <alex4nder> and silicone
[00:14:45] <ReadError> so i scanned it, tried to clean it up
[00:14:47] <alex4nder> ah yah
[00:14:52] <ReadError> and convert it to a 2d sketch in solid works
[00:15:01] <ReadError> but now, i want to scale it to the proper dimensions
[00:15:07] <ReadError> i can do it by a scaling factor
[00:15:23] <ReadError> but not just by saying, i want y to be 3.5"
[00:15:34] <ReadError> which sucks, the math would be possible to do
[00:15:41] <alex4nder> ...
[00:15:44] <ReadError> but i want to learn how to do it the other way as well
[00:15:46] <alex4nder> that's some basic algebra, son.
[00:15:52] <alex4nder> ah
[00:15:53] <ReadError> yea
[00:16:03] <ReadError> but i want to learn how to use solidworks well
[00:16:07] <A1Sheds> ReadError, frustrated with Solidworks?
[00:16:10] <ReadError> college got me burnt out on math ;)
[00:16:15] <ReadError> indeed A1Sheds, indeed
[00:16:18] <A1Sheds> what happened?
[00:16:19] <alex4nder> ReadError: that's elementary school. ;)
[00:16:23] <alex4nder> fractions
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[00:16:29] <JT-Shop> lol
[00:17:12] <A1Sheds> the autocomplete design not working?
[00:17:13] <ReadError> A1Sheds, so i have this sketch, i made from splines and such
[00:17:18] <A1Sheds> ok
[00:17:43] <SolarNRG> silicone rtv?
[00:17:44] <andypugh> There's something I didn't expect to see on Amzon: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004ZNYG80/ref=biss_dp_t_asn
[00:17:45] <ReadError> so i want to scale it so Y is a certain height, but scaling only allows a scaling factor
[00:17:48] <SolarNRG> What's the deal with the mix ratios?
[00:18:01] <ReadError> i tried smart dimension, it just compresses the top spline
[00:18:06] <ReadError> rather than the entire part
[00:18:20] <alex4nder> SolarNRG: read the instructions
[00:18:21] <A1Sheds> ReadError, I'd have to see how you extruded the part
[00:18:23] <JT-Shop> andypugh: finds the neat stuff
[00:18:35] <ReadError> i havnt yet A1Sheds
[00:18:38] <ReadError> its a flat 2d
[00:18:59] <ReadError> figured ide get that all nice, then extrude
[00:19:12] <SolarNRG> I tried to glue the box around with a glue gun last time and it leaked out like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89T23XBepfw
[00:19:18] <A1Sheds> have you used Solidworks much?
[00:19:19] <SolarNRG> I need help because the gluegun didn't work
[00:19:28] <SolarNRG> And I made a mess of my kitchen when tryign to mold with plaster of paris
[00:19:38] <ReadError> http://i.imgur.com/BsIug.jpg
[00:19:51] <alex4nder> SolarNRG: I used silicone caulking as a sealant.
[00:19:51] <ReadError> A1Sheds, maybe a week or so...
[00:19:58] <ReadError> but not really that long hour wise...
[00:20:03] <ReadError> just a bit here and there
[00:20:08] <A1Sheds> ReadError, that part is simple
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[00:20:29] <JT-Shop> SolarNRG: I'm just glad you don't rent a house from me
[00:20:30] <ReadError> yea i got the splines and everything done nicely, its scaling it that is giving me the issue
[00:20:37] <SolarNRG> :(
[00:20:38] <ReadError> i used the sketch tool, and traced over it
[00:20:48] <alex4nder> JT-Shop: hahaha
[00:20:52] <SolarNRG> How do you stop it leaking out?
[00:20:56] <alex4nder> SolarNRG: is that a council house?
[00:21:04] <SolarNRG> yeah
[00:21:10] <alex4nder> god, fuck england
[00:21:18] <alex4nder> what happened to you guys
[00:21:25] <SolarNRG> I'm from Scotland, not England
[00:21:28] <ReadError> work sucked
[00:21:35] <alex4nder> SolarNRG: sorry 'the UK'
[00:21:37] <ReadError> spent 2.5 hours trying to mitigate this ddos over port 80
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[00:21:49] <r00t4rd3d> lol
[00:21:56] <ReadError> after telling the guy look, get DOSArrest or cloudflare
[00:22:04] <ReadError> "oh its in my contract im protected from this!"
[00:22:10] <alex4nder> laf
[00:22:13] <ReadError> *facepalm*
[00:22:16] <SolarNRG> When I get the silicone cure, how do I stop it from leaking out?
[00:22:16] <alex4nder> you're a network admin?
[00:22:19] <ReadError> sundays are supposed to be calm
[00:22:21] <ReadError> sys admin
[00:22:38] <ReadError> so i added up blocking like 60 /8's
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[00:22:52] <alex4nder> haha, how does that figure into is 99.9999% availability? ;)
[00:23:05] <ReadError> and he was still getting slammed, load went up to 474 at one point :)
[00:23:10] <alex4nder> hot
[00:23:15] <ReadError> yea heh
[00:23:49] <r00t4rd3d> what site?
[00:24:16] <ReadError> i duno some .dk site
[00:24:20] <JT-Shop> fucking seed tick has jaws like a shark!
[00:25:15] <ReadError> i should setup a cron job on my mac to take a snapshot of my Win7 instance i have everything running on and rsync it to my laptop
[00:25:26] <ReadError> so when i go to work i can continue on w/e i left off at the night before
[00:25:35] <alex4nder> SolarNRG: you can use silicone sealant to seal your mold.
[00:25:37] <ReadError> ide probably kill the disk fast..
[00:25:38] <andypugh> Night all
[00:25:42] <alex4nder> andypugh: night
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[00:25:58] <alex4nder> I've also heard of clay.
[00:25:59] <JT-Shop> say goodnight Gracie
[00:26:05] <ReadError> im wondering how many people are going to be sick on tuesday ;)
[00:26:10] <ReadError> with diablo 3 dropping and all
[00:26:20] <alex4nder> only closet-case nerds
[00:26:29] <alex4nder> : |
[00:26:42] <ReadError> ehhh im sure we will have some at my work
[00:26:53] <alex4nder> I played SC2 beta for months, and still went to work.
[00:27:16] <alex4nder> but it's not a crawl like Diablo
[00:29:26] <ReadError> alex4nder, when i cut my other part last night, biiiiiig difference in climb vs. conventional milling
[00:29:30] <ReadError> in edge finish
[00:29:41] <alex4nder> yes
[00:29:52] <alex4nder> what kind of feet rates and spindle speeds did you use?
[00:29:56] <alex4nder> and what endmill?
[00:30:04] <alex4nder> er feed
[00:31:39] <ReadError> about 5.8in/min
[00:31:50] <ReadError> 4F 30degree RH square 0.125"
[00:31:59] <ReadError> by niagara cutter
[00:32:10] <alex4nder> this was plastic?
[00:32:12] <ReadError> on some pvc
[00:32:14] <ReadError> yea
[00:32:25] <ReadError> when i go CCW, the inside finish is nice
[00:32:32] <ReadError> when i go CW, its more "fuzzy"
[00:32:42] <alex4nder> did you just drive the entire endmill into the cut?
[00:32:50] <alex4nder> like, for the full depth?
[00:33:05] <alex4nder> because 5.8 seems really slow
[00:33:05] <ReadError> also, with the new mobo,its muuuuuuch smoother doing rapids
[00:33:14] <ReadError> i think i was missing steps
[00:33:17] <alex4nder> ah
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[00:33:36] <ReadError> maybe it was faster, i think visualmill hard codes it but i manually set it also
[00:33:42] <ReadError> didnt want to take it too fast just yet
[00:33:57] <alex4nder> well if you got fuzz instead of chips, you were probably melting the plastic
[00:33:58] <ReadError> too slow i risk melting though
[00:34:00] <Valen> plastic you need to hit hard
[00:34:15] <Valen> with a knife sharp cutter if you can
[00:34:24] <ReadError> but the outside was very smooth
[00:34:35] <ReadError> on the other side of the bit
[00:35:11] <alex4nder> yah, one side is shaving thin to large, the other is chipping thick to thin.
[00:35:17] <SolarNRG> Beddy byes for Snoozey Pies!
[00:35:39] <ReadError> night
[00:35:44] -!- SolarNRG [SolarNRG!1@94-195-174-233.zone9.bethere.co.uk] has parted #linuxcnc
[00:36:03] <alex4nder> I think I do plastic at like 30 IPM
[00:36:34] <alex4nder> ok, fuck, time to get ready for dinner.
[00:36:35] <ReadError> oh wow
[00:36:38] <ReadError> bye
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[00:38:44] <ReadError> i need a nice set of calipers
[00:38:55] <ReadError> and one of those tools that measures thickness
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[00:53:53] <Valen> ReadError: calipers? ;->
[00:55:29] <ReadError> nah it looks like a C
[00:55:36] <Valen> micromiter
[00:55:38] <ReadError> yea that
[00:55:53] <ReadError> since it seems alot of my materials are actually what they should be
[00:56:06] <ReadError> +/-0.002 it seems
[00:56:50] <toastydeath> just get a really nice set of calipers
[00:57:03] <Valen> also get a crap set
[00:57:03] <toastydeath> I have a very nice set of 0-4" mics and i rarely use them
[00:57:14] <Valen> yeah, we hardly ever use them
[00:57:17] <toastydeath> but I use my calipers constantly
[00:57:27] <Valen> get water proof ones with auto off
[00:57:30] <Valen> thats most important
[00:57:58] <toastydeath> the 8" mitutoyo calipers are really nice and about 200 bucks
[00:58:24] <toastydeath> http://www.amazon.com/Mitutoyo-500-731-10-Resolution-Carbide-Tipped-Measurement/dp/B003U9VZN4/ref=pd_cp_hi_1
[00:59:03] <Valen> lol that might be a bit excessive
[01:02:15] <toastydeath> it's as accurate as the cheaper micrometers one would buy
[01:02:21] <skunkworks__> we have 0-12" micrometers we use all the time.. the digital calipers are good but if I am doing slip/press fits - dials micrometers are the best
[01:03:07] <toastydeath> you have a set of 0-12 dial mics?
[01:03:11] <toastydeath> those things are like 600 dollars each
[01:03:17] <skunkworks__> na - import
[01:04:06] <toastydeath> even the imports are 400
[01:04:14] <toastydeath> http://www.amazon.com/Mitutoyo-510-133-Indicating-Micrometer-Graduation/dp/B007PSSK5C/ref=sr_1_9?s=industrial&ie=UTF8&qid=1336957428&sr=1-9
[01:04:29] <toastydeath> per mic
[01:07:34] <ReadError> http://www.amazon.com/Mitutoyo-500-196-20-ABSOLUTE-Accuracy-Resolution/dp/B001C0ZPNO/ref=pd_sbs_indust_1/185-6503010-2384003
[01:07:39] <ReadError> those are the ones i was looking at
[01:07:48] <skunkworks__> hmm - I think they where enco... I don't remember - we have had them for a while
[01:08:19] <ReadError> i heard they are the "industry standard"
[01:08:40] <ReadError> http://www.amazon.com/Mitutoyo-293-349-Micrometer-0-25-4mm-Graduation/dp/B002SG7QEM/ref=pd_bxgy_indust_img_b
[01:08:40] <toastydeath> mitutoyo is the top dog at the moment, yeah
[01:09:05] <ReadError> i dont want to spend extra for something un necessary
[01:09:09] <ReadError> but i like nice stuff
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[01:12:15] <Valen> my philosophy is buy cheap tools, then when they either break or i hurl them across the room, replace them with the best i can afford
[01:12:23] <Valen> that way you know its something you use
[01:12:47] <ReadError> well
[01:12:52] <ReadError> i have a pretty crappy set of calipers
[01:12:55] <ReadError> dial
[01:13:26] <toastydeath> i once scrapped 25,000 dollars in parts
[01:13:32] <toastydeath> because of a dial caliper
[01:13:46] <ReadError> 0_0
[01:13:48] <ReadError> go on..
[01:14:24] <Tom_itx> toastydeath that would be one part on some of the stuff we ran
[01:14:46] <Valen> this is why for some jobs calibration is important ;->
[01:14:50] <toastydeath> Tom_itx: that would have been a fifth of the cost of some of the other parts we ran.
[01:15:00] <Tom_itx> well ya
[01:15:23] <Tom_itx> there was sort of a standing rule... have 3 methods to check every dimension
[01:15:41] <toastydeath> cheap stuff that gets used often can develop damage that is not always apparent when you gauge the tool
[01:16:29] <Tom_itx> we had a lab come in and certify stuff
[01:16:46] <toastydeath> that doesn't help you when the first three parts are fine and then the inside of the thing decides to go to shit
[01:17:17] <A1Sheds> does 3 different calipers count?
[01:17:20] <toastydeath> ten parts ran and then we picked one up to go do a full check
[01:17:24] <Tom_itx> A1Sheds, no
[01:17:26] <toastydeath> and that's when we caught it
[01:17:56] <toastydeath> A1Sheds: normally it'll be something like one type of aboslute measurement tool, a go/no go or a gage, and a CMM
[01:18:21] <ReadError> do you all work together toastydeath ?
[01:18:32] <toastydeath> no, i don't work in a shop at the moment, I went back to school.
[01:19:28] <Jymmm> Howdy Y'All
[01:19:36] <toastydeath> hai dood
[01:19:36] <Tom_itx> troll
[01:19:52] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: <--- Gremlin
[01:20:02] <Tom_itx> feed me
[01:20:04] <Tom_itx> :D
[01:20:12] <Jymmm> It aint midnight yet!
[01:20:38] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: THEN we'll feed ya nd give ya a bath with the waterhose!
[01:21:41] <ReadError> anyone made a probe? or used one
[01:21:46] <Jymmm> for the record, I hate this "Fusion" food crap
[01:21:47] <ReadError> seems like it sure would be handy
[01:22:08] <Jymmm> ReadError: Ask a couple or Martians
[01:22:13] <Jymmm> s/or/of/
[01:22:33] <Tom_itx> ReadError, http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/emc/probe_index.php
[01:22:38] <Jymmm> ReadError: touch probe?
[01:22:46] <ReadError> yessir
[01:23:16] <Jymmm> Tom_itx's looks like the projects I've seen around
[01:23:18] <ReadError> any pics of the meshes you have made with it?
[01:23:27] <Tom_itx> nope
[01:23:44] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: how did that work for you?
[01:23:55] <Jymmm> sensative? too sensative?
[01:24:01] <Jymmm> sloppy?
[01:24:06] <Jymmm> reliable?
[01:24:08] <Tom_itx> i have yet to use it, waiting on stuff for other stuff for the machine
[01:24:16] <Jymmm> ah, ok
[01:24:31] <Tom_itx> - half that
[01:24:34] <A1Sheds> any else worked with Comedi and EMC at the same time, same kernel?
[01:24:36] <Jymmm> yours looks it's smaller diameter than some I've seen
[01:24:53] <Tom_itx> i made one smaller and one larger one
[01:25:10] <Tom_itx> and sent one to a dude
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[01:25:35] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: so the balls are glued in place?
[01:26:09] <Tom_itx> i put a spot of superglue on them but for the most part they stay in place
[01:26:41] <Tom_itx> used a ball nose same diameter as the bearing
[01:26:46] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: k, is the wire soldered that I see?
[01:26:56] <Tom_itx> yup
[01:27:04] <Jymmm> that musta been a pita
[01:27:11] <Tom_itx> not bad
[01:27:21] <Tom_itx> i made a jig and it was pretty easy
[01:27:22] <Jymmm> torch? lol
[01:28:06] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Yeah, let me know how the different sized ones turn out when you get a chance to paly with them
[01:28:08] <Tom_itx> that's low grade silver solder
[01:28:16] <Jymmm> ah, gotch
[01:28:18] <Jymmm> a
[01:33:29] <Tom_itx> Jymmm they should be about the same really since it takes very little to break the contact
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[01:38:08] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: I would think the larger would be more senseative
[01:38:15] <Jymmm> or accurate
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[01:38:41] <Jymmm> I'm not sure of the word I'm looking for
[01:38:50] <Tom_itx> i know what you're saying
[01:39:01] <Tom_itx> using a longer probe would have the same effect
[01:39:04] <Jymmm> higher resolution maybe?
[01:39:08] <Jymmm> true
[01:39:12] <Tom_itx> geometry
[01:39:28] <Jymmm> "feather touch"
[01:40:34] <Tom_itx> i didn't make them out of need so it could be a while before they get hooked up
[01:41:16] <Jymmm> It's all good I've been curious since I saw them 5 years ago, I think I can wait a tad longer =)
[01:41:48] <Tom_itx> it just looked like a cool project so i made some
[01:41:54] <Jymmm> =)
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[01:42:16] <Jymmm> I tink I would try my hand at the ghetto 3D Laser scanning instead
[01:42:59] <Jymmm> since all you need is a webcam, the free software and a cheap laser pointer
[01:43:37] <Tom_itx> like kenneth did?
[01:43:55] <Jymmm> I dont know what that is or what he did
[01:44:31] <Jymmm> http://www.david-laserscanner.com/
[01:44:33] <Jymmm> that
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[01:45:50] <Tom_itx> http://www.users.qwest.net/~kmaxon/page/side/art9_137.htm
[01:46:00] <Tom_itx> more of a range finder than scanner
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[01:49:54] elmo401 is now known as elmo40
[01:50:06] <Jymmm> There is an autonomus vehicle contest put on by NASA. Some of the contestants went into fancy sensors etc. The one that got 1st Place, didn't rely upon the sensors like other did as much as focused on software solution. They were coding on the fly to make improvements
[01:50:21] <Tom_itx> not DARPA is it?
[01:50:25] <elmo40> isn't that the DARPA challenge
[01:50:29] <elmo40> ;)
[01:50:31] <Jymmm> I think it was DARPA
[01:50:42] <Jymmm> Soem guberment agency =)
[01:50:54] <elmo40> ya, a uni won last year. completed the entire course in like 14 weeks :-P
[01:51:00] <elmo40> it took a LONG time, though
[01:51:26] <elmo40> Jymmm: guberment means tax dollars... means money out of our pockets
[01:51:29] <Jymmm> Just seeing that range finder advanced PCB made me think of it
[01:51:46] <Tom_itx> elmo40, they don't just print more??
[01:52:21] <Jymmm> Just to tell me something is 10.4 feet away, this is a bit intense to me http://www.seattlerobotics.org/encoder/200110/vision39.jpg
[01:52:25] <elmo40> in the case of the US of A... they ask the Feds to 'lend them' some.
[01:53:02] <Tom_itx> Jymmm, the guy is genius
[01:53:09] <Tom_itx> look over his site
[01:53:10] <elmo40> and the Feds reach up into their imaginary money tree and say 'here ya go, prez, $1 Trillion'... that will be $50B per MONTH in interest, thank you, come again
[01:53:35] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: I'm not saying he isn't, it's just interesting to see what a pure software solution can actually do.
[01:54:08] <elmo40> that was from 2001. how is the system doing now?
[01:54:33] <Tom_itx> i'm sure he's off doing other intense projects now
[01:55:10] <ReadError> they are working on using the kinetic (360 camera) for 3d scanning i read once..
[01:57:08] <elmo40> they could do that with the Wiimote
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[02:35:51] <Jymmm> Does anyone know what can deal with thermal shock the best? Clay floor tile seems to be the worse, Regular ceramic tile? Granite? Marble? soemthign else?
[02:37:02] <Tom_itx> mica
[02:38:45] <Jymmm> sounds familure
[02:39:03] <Jymmm> is that something I might find in a floor covering store?
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[02:39:13] <Tom_itx> i doubt it
[02:39:20] <Jymmm> k
[02:39:36] <Tom_itx> old stoves used it as a 'window'
[02:39:48] <Jymmm> ah
[02:40:23] <Tom_itx> early electronics used it as a barrier between transistors and their heatsinks
[02:40:59] <jdhNC> I haven't seen any in 25 years?
[02:41:09] <Tom_itx> likely not
[02:41:35] <jdhNC> I recall seeing it fairly often, but don't remember what it was in.
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[02:42:49] <Tom_itx> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mica
[02:43:16] <Tom_itx> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Mikanit.jpg
[02:43:59] <Tom_itx> Thin transparent sheets of mica called "isinglass" were used for peepholes in boilers, lanterns, stoves, and kerosene heaters because they were less likely to shatter compared to glass when exposed to extreme temperature gradients.
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[02:50:55] <Tom_itx> Jymmm, get some tiles from the shuttle and do your floor
[02:51:21] <Tom_itx> i think they're done with them now
[02:52:40] <Jymmm> Heh, I guess I could just hop over to Moffet Field and ask for some samples
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[06:01:34] <Jymmm> A1Sheds: Hey, you work with glass impregnated nylon much?
[06:24:44] <alex4nder> yoh
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[06:27:15] <Jymmm> momma!
[06:27:26] <alex4nder> sup Jymmm
[06:27:55] <Jymmm> US Ban on lithium batteries on the 16th
[06:28:06] <Jymmm> (shipped internationally that is)
[06:28:21] <Jymmm> Well, USPS ban that is
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[06:29:04] <Jymmm> alex4nder: you ever work with HDPE ?
[06:32:36] <alex4nder> a little..
[06:32:44] <alex4nder> about to mill a vacuum table out of it
[06:37:26] <Jymmm> have you ever machined HDPE before?
[06:38:06] <Jymmm> alex4nder: Are you going to use tooling made for machining plastics?
[06:40:07] * Jymmm goes to see if he can find a spring!
[06:40:27] <alex4nder> I've just been using 4 tooth HSS on plastic
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[06:53:09] <Jymmm> And the results of that?
[06:54:53] <alex4nder> haven't tried much yet
[06:54:59] <alex4nder> I'll let you know.
[06:59:03] <Jymmm> k
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[07:11:44] <DJ9DJ> moin
[07:13:35] cylly2 is now known as Loetmichel
[07:13:52] <Loetmichel> mornin'
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[07:31:34] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: You said something and I was going to respond, but I forgot what is was =)
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[07:49:31] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: So, remind me what I was going to say, and I'll tell you!
[07:50:12] <DJ9DJ> hi Jymmm :D
[07:50:32] <Jymmm> Howdy DJ9DJ
[07:53:55] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: so you think i rememer what i said yesterday? Optimist! ;-)
[07:54:01] <Loetmichel> +b
[07:54:41] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: No, I think you remember what *I* was going to say to you!
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[08:37:04] <Valen> why does super glue dry instantly on skin, and never on anything else i want to glue
[08:38:20] <ReadError> moisture :)
[08:38:24] <archivist> the water, the glue uses it to cure iirc and takes longer to suck humidity from the air
[08:38:42] <ReadError> CA/superglue?
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[08:38:56] <Valen> yeah
[08:39:02] <ReadError> thats why
[08:40:39] <Valen> not very damn super i say ;-P
[08:41:54] <archivist> it is super at gluing skin!
[08:42:07] <Jymmm> Yeah, 3M made all it's money making only ONE glue, not 85,000 adhesives.
[08:42:22] <Jymmm> archivist++
[08:42:47] <Jymmm> So super at doing that, that it's used in surgery anymore
[09:06:37] <Tom_itx> no, it's because the new doctors can't sew
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[09:13:24] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: http://dermatology.jwatch.org/cgi/content/full/2001/1121/3
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[09:14:50] <Jymmm> But, I do carry Steri-Strips and sutures
[09:14:50] <Tom_itx> requires login
[09:15:07] <Jymmm> not to read THAT article
[09:15:13] <Jymmm> just the original one.
[09:27:05] <Valen> clicking on the link brings up a login page
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[10:17:20] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: iirc superglue was DEVELOPEDF fpor making sutures
[10:17:29] <Loetmichel> not for gluing anything else
[10:18:02] <Loetmichel> but if you want fast superglue: buy a spray can of supergluue activator
[10:18:31] <Loetmichel> s/activator/accelerator
[10:18:31] <Valen> eh i used nails
[10:19:01] <Loetmichel> but: be careful, acceleratet CA excerts heat, and not little
[10:19:10] <Valen> i've used it before
[10:19:31] <Valen> on balsa and tissue paper aeroplanes you can get quite a bit of smoke out of them
[10:20:15] <Loetmichel> on jeans also
[10:20:31] <Loetmichel> and the bond jeans-> skin is nearly inremoveable ;-)
[10:21:14] <Valen> oh you can remove it just fine
[10:21:23] <Valen> wont even bother the jeans much
[10:21:35] <Valen> blood washes out right easy if you get to it quick
[10:22:59] <Loetmichel> hihi
[10:23:44] <Loetmichel> -< has accidentally spilled the 3oz bottle thin CA on his jeans... that was HOT
[10:24:10] <Valen> that would be unplesant
[10:24:17] <Loetmichel> ... and $me was sitting 2 hrs in the bathtub afterwards, WITH jeans, to debond it fropm the lap...
[10:24:28] <Valen> I *think* acetone will eventually soften CA
[10:24:35] <Loetmichel> and skin ;-)
[10:24:43] <awallin> hcl will work too..
[10:24:46] <Valen> eh wont bother your skin much
[10:24:48] <Loetmichel> tha hot bathtub was less irritant to the skin
[10:25:38] <Loetmichel> "lets have the skun do its magic oil trick and repell the CA"
[10:25:44] <Loetmichel> skin
[10:26:00] * Valen has done a modest amount of fiberglassing
[10:26:11] <Valen> you normally wash your hands in acetone to clean them
[10:26:41] <TekniQue> I prefer to just wear gloves
[10:26:51] <Valen> the resin eats most gloves
[10:27:02] <Valen> my dad was the one who did most of the glassing
[10:27:13] <Valen> when you have to stand in the mould gloves wont do too much lol
[10:27:43] <Loetmichel> Valen: full body condom?
[10:27:44] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[10:28:15] <Valen> eh, wear good eye protection and a shower cap
[10:28:27] <Valen> test the cap for compatibility with resin first
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[12:07:45] <A1Sheds> Octyl cyanoacrylate is most often used for gluing sutures
[12:08:39] <A1Sheds> but the cyanoacrylates are broken down by heating, so baking your fingers should remove the bond :)
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[12:27:05] <SolarNRG> Hi there
[12:27:18] <micges> hi
[12:27:29] <SolarNRG> How are things?
[12:28:30] <micges> great
[12:37:59] <A1Sheds> cyanoacrylate debonders : Nitromethane , dimethyformamide, Gamma Butrolactone, PROPYLENE CARBONATE, acetone
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[12:56:32] <adb> hello
[12:56:45] <DJ9DJ> hi there
[12:57:00] <jdhNC> my chinese ballscrews are out for delivery!
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[12:59:32] <Tom_itx> cyanoacrylate reprap
[12:59:55] <Tom_itx> jdhNC do they come with chinese balls too?
[13:01:04] <jdhNC> of course.
[13:03:17] <DJ9DJ> hihi
[13:03:26] <DJ9DJ> balls of steel? ;)
[13:05:13] <jdhNC> hopefully
[13:05:25] <A1Sheds> jdhNC, did you order from these guys? http://shop70018708.taobao.com/
[13:08:51] <jdhNC> I see nothing there? I got them from the LinearMotionBearings2008 d00d
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[13:09:50] <DJ9DJ> ah, i also bought one ballscrew spindle there :)
[13:09:59] <DJ9DJ> for my z axis
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[13:13:45] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: I know, but een that don't work on a dripping oil pan !
[13:13:50] <Jymmm> even
[13:16:10] <Jymmm> A1Sheds: You forget the most common, nail polish remover (acetone)
[13:16:35] <Jymmm> Available in finer whining homes everywhere!
[13:16:36] <Tom_itx> it's on the list
[13:16:50] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: no it's not
[13:17:10] <Tom_itx> acetone is
[13:17:18] <Jymmm> nail polish remover isn't
[13:17:48] <Tom_itx> that's what it's used in
[13:17:53] <Jymmm> so?
[13:18:08] <Tom_itx> nail polish remover (acetone)
[13:18:11] <Tom_itx> it's on the list
[13:18:12] <Jymmm> i'ts not the most COMMON
[13:18:18] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: no it's not
[13:18:18] <DJ9DJ> hmm, here in germany, most nail polish remover is without acetone
[13:18:34] <DJ9DJ> years ago, it was with acetone, but nowadays...
[13:18:39] <Jymmm> DJ9DJ: ah
[13:18:47] <DJ9DJ> dunno at your location
[13:19:18] <DJ9DJ> but a few years ago, i tried to find some nail polish remover with acetone in some local stores - and it was very hard
[13:19:40] <Jymmm> US still has acetone based nail polish remover,, and then it's like poofy scented for the gals
[13:19:53] <DJ9DJ> on the label, it said something like "without acetone", instead some replacement for acetone, dunno what
[13:19:55] <jdhNC> same here, very little of it is acetone based now.
[13:20:04] <A1Sheds> DJ9DJ, most hardware / home improvement stores still carry acetone
[13:20:27] <DJ9DJ> yeah, thats what i have done, bought 2.5 litres pure acetone :D
[13:20:39] <A1Sheds> it's a lot lower cost there than in a cute nail polish remover bottle
[13:21:05] <DJ9DJ> yep, thats true
[13:21:45] <Jymmm> But if "Junior" glues his fingers to the dog, it's a lot easier to ask the neighbor if she has nail polish remover then a gallon of acetone
[13:22:01] <A1Sheds> lesson learned
[13:22:44] <DJ9DJ> :D
[13:23:01] <Jymmm> Hardly, one of my ex bosses crazy glued a screwdriver to himself, but he forgot to order the replacement gallon of acetone for the shop =)
[13:23:14] <DJ9DJ> harhar :D
[13:23:21] <A1Sheds> the dog will probably do a pretty good job of gnawing away at the junction
[13:23:24] <jdhNC> I have a gallon of acetone... my daughter has 5 bottles of non-acetone polish remover
[13:24:10] <Jymmm> jdhNC: then refill the 5 bottles for her from that gallon
[13:24:35] <jdhNC> I don't think acetone works well on current nail polish.
[13:25:23] <A1Sheds> some super glue removers mix acetone into propylene carbonate, probably to lower the vapor pressure
[13:26:12] <A1Sheds> one used a secret amine
[13:26:20] <Jymmm> No clue, the last time I used nail polish was to mark all the philips micro screwdrivers eons ago. Has never even flaked off yet.
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[13:27:06] <jdhNC> I put a drop on a 1911 front sight a few years ago, it's still there.
[13:27:41] <ScribbleJ> A secret a yours?
[13:27:47] <A1Sheds> UV acrylics are the latest trend in nail polish, the use a UV initiated photopolymer
[13:28:05] <jdhNC> A1Sheds: is that what your manicurist uses?
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[13:28:06] <A1Sheds> the other are generally just acrylics that self crosslink
[13:28:57] <A1Sheds> cosmetics are a real racket
[13:29:09] <Jymmm> A1Sheds: You work with glass impregnated nylon much?
[13:30:03] <A1Sheds> I see materials in cosmetics that people would fuss about being in inks or coatings yet its allowed in cosmetics
[13:30:14] <A1Sheds> Jymmm, not much
[13:30:30] <A1Sheds> Jymmm, whats the application?
[13:31:43] <Jymmm> A1Sheds: I wanted to know if 1) Can it hold tight tolerances, and if it can be machined to a perfect straight edge/angle
[13:33:20] <A1Sheds> Jymmm, IMHO I'd say it depends
[13:34:00] <Jymmm> on the ratio of raw materials?
[13:34:11] <A1Sheds> yeah, thats one
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[13:35:34] <Jymmm> and another would be?
[13:35:35] <A1Sheds> glass nanoparticles, glass beads, frit etc
[13:36:50] <A1Sheds> those are materials with different CTE's as well, so over temp it's going to change their properties
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[13:38:51] <Jymmm> Hmmm, ok. I've just never seen glass impregnated nylon with a sharp right angle before, always with a radius
[13:47:30] <A1Sheds> Jymmm, is it brittle?
[13:48:04] <Jymmm> rigid usually
[13:48:29] <A1Sheds> does it cleave easily?
[13:48:54] <Jymmm> not that I've ever seen
[13:50:06] <A1Sheds> I'm wondering if the stuff you're seeing has glass particles or glass fibers
[13:52:51] <Jymmm> *I* don't do mold injection, but I've been considering having something mold injected if it can hold the tight tolerances/angles is why I was asking.
[13:53:12] <A1Sheds> find a process guy
[13:53:49] <Jymmm> Many just give lip service and not a straight answer initially =)
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[14:45:42] <JT-Shop> tight tolerance and injection molding don't fit in the same sentance...
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[14:49:43] <jdhNC> you have an option, you don't take it.
[14:49:48] <jdhNC> <urk>
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[15:22:22] <skunkworks__> I don't remember who was looking.. but throw around set like this http://www.ebay.com/itm/0-12-Precision-outside-micrometer-set-0-0001-carbide-standards-12pcs-set-new-/310390963290?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4844be3c5a
[15:22:57] <skunkworks__> comes in handy. You get what you get - but they probably are going to be more accurate than a digital caliper.
[15:23:18] <JT-Shop> wow
[15:24:22] <JT-Shop> I cheat and use these http://www.ebay.com/itm/SPI-DIGITAL-MICROMETER-0-1-ACCURACY-00005-/230786373115?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35bbf095fb
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[15:25:27] <JT-Shop> skunkworks: stop making me cruise flea bay!
[15:25:38] <skunkworks__> heh
[15:25:40] <skunkworks__> sorry
[15:25:45] <JT-Shop> lol
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[15:27:11] <skunkworks__> those are nice.. we don't have any digital micrometers..
[15:29:12] <JT-Shop> I spent too long squinting to read my other ones so I started replacing them with the digital ones
[15:29:37] <archivist> ew claims of tenths on those chinese micrometers
[15:30:07] <skunkworks__> archivist: don't believe it. ;)
[15:30:26] <skunkworks__> it just means that there is a tenths veneer on it.
[15:30:50] <archivist> veneer is the right word :)
[15:30:50] <skunkworks__> but the set we got quite a few years ago seems to work great
[15:30:58] <skunkworks__> heh
[15:31:15] <archivist> the vernier is accurate to what though
[15:31:29] <skunkworks__> the spell checker didn't yell - so close enough. (even if it is a totally different word than what I meant)
[15:31:31] <skunkworks__> ;)
[15:31:47] <archivist> I though it was apt :)
[15:33:44] <JT-Shop> my speel cheeker dont' bork anymoore
[15:34:34] <archivist> I moostly prees rtrn b4 I see teh errs
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[16:28:33] <jthornton> if your poor and don't have a test indicator how could you locate X0 on a lathe with a drill bit?
[16:29:17] <Jymmm> lightbulb and a battery?
[16:29:48] <jthornton> can you elaborate?
[16:29:54] <archivist> to what tolerance :)
[16:29:57] <roycroft> donate some blood plasma
[16:30:03] <roycroft> and then go to harbor freight and get a $10 dti
[16:30:04] <roycroft> :)
[16:30:39] <archivist> with 1 dolla left for a beer ?
[16:31:24] <archivist> you only get tea and biscuits over here
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[16:32:18] <jthornton> well to a hobby lathe tolerance
[16:33:11] <jthornton> imagine a guy just getting is first cnc lathe and he is scratching his head trying to center up a drill bit...
[16:34:07] * archivist sends the noob to college to get practice on a manual lathe before letting him loose on a cnc
[16:34:16] <jthornton> lol
[16:34:51] <roycroft> imagine someone who can afford a cnc lathe but can't afford a dti
[16:34:55] <archivist> I can tell some of the users need that day or six at night school
[16:35:05] * jthornton is off to town
[16:35:26] <jthornton> I will read back to see if anyone has some thoughts
[16:35:45] <jthornton> roycroft, he is broke as he just bought a CNC lathe...
[16:36:28] <cradek> just eyeball it, it'll be close enough.
[16:36:51] <cradek> with the spindle turning it's easy to see the center of the work - it's the part that isn't moving
[16:36:56] <archivist> touch, index finger is ok to a thou or few
[16:37:02] <cradek> point the drill at it
[16:37:32] <cradek> I'm not sure how you *would* use a dti to do this
[16:37:37] <roycroft> i'd invest in tooling and metrology gear before cnc
[16:37:42] <archivist> there is the poor mans indicator too
[16:37:44] <roycroft> but i'm rather odd
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[16:39:07] <roycroft> if you're talking about lining up the tailstock, though, you'd do that by turning a piece of rod and measuring each end with a mike
[16:39:17] <archivist> jthornton, http://www.chronos.ltd.uk/engineering-tools/2011/what-is-a-wiggler-how-do-i-use-a-wobbler/
[16:40:22] <cradek> you could put a pointy wiggler in the spindle and then touch the tip of the drill to that
[16:40:40] <cradek> I think there are a dozen ways to do it well enough
[16:41:23] <archivist> see also (covered in ads) http://chestofbooks.com/home-improvement/workshop/Machine-Shop-Work/Adjusting-Pieces-to-Center-on-Faceplate.html
[16:41:43] <cradek> you could put the drill in a collet, tighten the drill chuck on it, and only then attach the chuck holder to the turret
[16:42:13] <cradek> I think he's mounting a drill to the turret so he needs to get it on center X. he's not centering a workpiece.
[16:42:43] <archivist> he is also writing a noobs guide, didnt specify
[16:42:49] <cradek> oh
[16:43:22] <archivist> http://gnipsel.com/shop/emc2/tutorial/
[16:44:04] <roycroft> do any of you folks use a small mill (i.e. mill drill)?
[16:44:18] <archivist> use..strong word that
[16:44:31] <archivist> how small :)
[16:44:31] <jdhNC> do people CNC tailstocks?
[16:44:43] <cradek> a lot of us have used various sized machines
[16:44:47] <roycroft> like an x3, specifically
[16:45:06] <archivist> ask the real question
[16:45:11] <roycroft> i've almost decided to cnc my x3 instead of building a cnc router
[16:45:29] <roycroft> and i read that many folks use epoxy granite to add mass to their small mills
[16:45:31] <jdhNC> vastly different machines
[16:45:42] <roycroft> my question is, is it really worth the effort
[16:45:46] <roycroft> indeed, jdhnc
[16:46:03] <roycroft> although i've determined that the x3 would do what i was going to do with the router, and more
[16:46:04] <cradek> retrofitted manual machines often make poor cnc machines
[16:46:17] <roycroft> there is no budget for a new machine
[16:46:28] <archivist> my mill column was too flexible, I added angle section to it to make a larger rectangle to stiffen
[16:46:29] <roycroft> i understand this is a compromise
[16:46:33] <cradek> unless you refit with ballscrews and a spindle with repeating tool lengths
[16:46:46] <roycroft> i intend to install ballscrews
[16:47:11] <roycroft> i'll handle the spindle by manually installing tooling and manually touching off
[16:47:12] <archivist> but starting with a larger mill is a good idea TM
[16:47:44] <archivist> touch off is a PAIN with certain tooling
[16:47:49] <roycroft> were that i had the space and the funds for a larger mill
[16:48:35] <roycroft> but alas, neither of those are available commodities at the moment
[16:49:17] <archivist> touch off for gear cutters is near impossible, make one, measure errors adjust make a good one
[16:49:20] <roycroft> the primary uses for now will be pcb milling, engraving, and making chassis cutouts
[16:49:41] * roycroft has a sheldon horizontal mill for cutting gears
[16:49:43] <Jymmm> archivist: Ever tried using a flashlight for touchoff?
[16:50:11] <archivist> I have looked at backlight and cameras
[16:50:31] <Jymmm> archivist: how did that go?
[16:50:44] <archivist> cannot afford usable optics
[16:51:01] <Jymmm> ah
[16:51:16] <archivist> google the price of a telecentric lens
[16:51:33] <roycroft> so i'm aware of the compromises and their implications, but sometimes one has to compromise in life
[16:52:10] <archivist> worth trying so you learn the errors of little mills
[16:52:55] <Jymmm> When I did thickfilm, we had a microscope with an off-the-shelf TI Adding machine connected to it somehow. That is what we used to measure the thinkness of the gold silk screening of traces.
[16:53:00] <roycroft> i learned milling on bridgeports
[16:53:08] <roycroft> i've not used any really high quality mills, though
[16:53:22] <roycroft> but i know the difference between my x3 and a bridgeport
[16:54:10] <archivist> dti on table leaning on to column push column side ways with little finger
[16:54:20] <archivist> cringe
[16:54:38] <jdhNC> sometimes good enough, is good enough.
[16:54:56] <archivist> for pcb I think good enough
[16:55:07] <roycroft> i was tightening up the head on my x3 this weekend
[16:55:26] <jdhNC> I have almost decided milling pcb's isn't really worth the effort.
[16:55:32] <roycroft> after i got it dialed in as best i could, pushing fairly hard with my hand (not little finger) would cause about 0.001" deflection
[16:55:41] <Jymmm> From that microscope thingy, It gave me the idea that you could use a 99¢ laser pointer and some type of "receiver" so when the tooling is touched off the beam is broken
[16:56:00] <archivist> roycroft, was expecting worse, thats not too bad
[16:56:07] <roycroft> no, i'm ok with that
[16:56:30] <roycroft> i don't expect to be able to hold better than 0.003" or so on a good day with the x3
[16:56:49] * roycroft has no illusions of precision with the thing
[16:56:52] <archivist> laser beam is too large a diameter for my smaller cutters
[16:57:25] <roycroft> sometimes though, good enough is good enough
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[16:58:25] <IchGuckLive> hi all around the world
[16:59:12] <Jymmm> archivist: I have a $10 laser pointer that (at the flick of a switch), makes a line, instead of a point. I'm thinking that man be more helpful
[16:59:31] <archivist> roycroft, you should get better than 3 thou with that
[16:59:35] <Jymmm> s/man/may/
[17:00:04] <roycroft> it vibrates a lot when i'm cutting steel, unless i take extremely light cuts
[17:00:27] <archivist> I know the laser line toys, all the pros at the machine show when they see a cutter shrug
[17:00:39] <roycroft> although my work on the head this past weekend is helping that
[17:01:14] <archivist> a local supplier recommends rebuilding the head before use :)
[17:02:06] <archivist> bearing was so tight on the spindle we could not adjust the endfloat on a new one
[17:03:07] <SolarNRG> Why do cheap pillar drills not do a super slow speed?
[17:03:55] <archivist> roycroft, see preparation guide http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Machines-Accessories/Milling-Machines/Model-X3-Small-Mill
[17:03:58] <IchGuckLive> SolarNRG: therefor you need a hevy motor
[17:03:59] <roycroft> when i got my x3 i adjusted the bearings right after the initial break-in procedure
[17:04:22] <roycroft> i have that document already, archivist, but thanks
[17:04:29] <archivist> IchGuckLive, or a gearbox
[17:04:47] <archivist> ok
[17:04:48] * roycroft usually does his homework
[17:04:53] <IchGuckLive> archivist: agree but thats not cheep
[17:05:13] <SolarNRG> Can I use the X3 as a pillar drill too?
[17:05:28] <archivist> yes
[17:06:02] <IchGuckLive> thats a big prce for a mill like this
[17:06:21] <roycroft> i use mine often enough as a drill press that i'm thinking of selling one of my drill presses to make some more room in my shop
[17:06:42] <SolarNRG> Is there another UK supplier of X3's?
[17:07:00] <archivist> chester and warco probably
[17:07:12] <SolarNRG> I was almost tempted to buy it
[17:07:29] <SolarNRG> that can mill steel?
[17:07:34] <roycroft> i've had mine for a bit over 3 years now, and i'm generally happy with it
[17:07:49] <archivist> I have only done one test cut on one after the head rebuild
[17:07:52] <IchGuckLive> SolarNRG: maybe one ore 2 times
[17:07:56] <roycroft> but i did not expect to be able to hog 0.050" in steel when i bought i
[17:07:57] <roycroft> t
[17:08:10] <SolarNRG> what happens the 3rd time you try to mill steel?
[17:08:34] <IchGuckLive> the bearing of the tool will fail
[17:08:39] <roycroft> i think that's the biggest problem with them - people expect to be able to use them like they would a large knee mill
[17:08:50] <roycroft> which is not a shortcoming of the x3 at all
[17:08:54] <archivist> 1st or second time you learn about tightening the clamps/vice
[17:09:10] <SolarNRG> is it easy to break the x3?
[17:09:18] <IchGuckLive> archivist: YES thats for shoure
[17:09:38] <IchGuckLive> SolarNRG: on PCB it will hold forever
[17:09:55] <archivist> anything is easy to break if you are stupid
[17:09:59] <IchGuckLive> Necuron more then your livetime
[17:10:07] <roycroft> i think it's easier to break most tooling than to break the x3
[17:10:37] <IchGuckLive> roycroft: on 0.8mm i agree
[17:10:38] <SolarNRG> I'm 150 quid short of the X3+delivery
[17:10:39] <roycroft> but if you're intent on breaking your x3 i'm sure that can be accomplished without much trouble
[17:10:51] <SolarNRG> Is it worthy buying?
[17:11:05] <roycroft> only you can answer that, solarnrg
[17:11:12] <IchGuckLive> SolarNRG: what is youzr goal to meet this
[17:11:13] <roycroft> as we don't know your intended applications
[17:11:37] <SolarNRG> I have 3 Nema 34 3.1Nm 439oz inch 8 wire stepper motors
[17:11:39] <IchGuckLive> modell aircraft or molding
[17:11:44] <SolarNRG> I'd like to do SOMETHING with them
[17:11:48] <roycroft> this much i would say about it
[17:12:06] <roycroft> unless you're already heavily invested in m3 tooling i'd recommend getting the r8 version of the x3
[17:12:10] <SolarNRG> CNC milling a rocket thruster model so I can link up with highaltitude
[17:12:20] <IchGuckLive> SolarNRG: then get soome alu and build your own
[17:12:24] <roycroft> otherwise, should you move up to something bigger later, you'll be replacing all your tooling
[17:12:43] <roycroft> mt3, rather
[17:12:55] <IchGuckLive> SolarNRG: http://mechmo.de/lothar/cnc_6.JPG
[17:13:10] <IchGuckLive> http://mechmo.de/lothar/cnc_4.JPG
[17:13:24] <SolarNRG> Ich, it looks like a baby CNC mill
[17:13:26] <SolarNRG> engraver
[17:13:32] <IchGuckLive> material below 150USD
[17:13:46] <IchGuckLive> elektronic below 100USD
[17:14:12] <IchGuckLive> SolarNRG: you said just to work with your NEMAS
[17:14:40] <jdhNC> where do you get parts that cheap?
[17:14:40] <IchGuckLive> SolarNRG: or like http://mechmo.de/styrocat.html
[17:14:42] <SolarNRG> I know I've got a shit attitude to life, buy some bits here and there first, then find out a way to kludge it alltogether at the 11th hour
[17:15:41] <IchGuckLive> SolarNRG: or as you get alitel big bigger like that http://mechmo.de/styropor_gaul.jpg
[17:15:58] <SolarNRG> That's awesome
[17:16:32] <IchGuckLive> NEMA34
[17:16:36] <SolarNRG> I dunno, I like steel, its cheap, I'm sort of anti-3d printing in a way because the filament is so expensive
[17:16:38] <IchGuckLive> you said
[17:16:43] <SolarNRG> Yeah I have 3 beefy steppers
[17:17:15] <IchGuckLive> 8wire that means parallel 4,2A
[17:17:30] <IchGuckLive> to get the nice 3,1Nm
[17:17:36] <SolarNRG> I'm guessing its got 4 commons and the other 4 have to be grounded in sequence to turn
[17:17:37] <IchGuckLive> at may 100rpm
[17:17:54] <IchGuckLive> SolarNRG: no
[17:18:17] <IchGuckLive> SolarNRG: witch country are you from
[17:18:21] <SolarNRG> Scotland
[17:18:22] <IchGuckLive> of sitting in
[17:18:34] <SolarNRG> I was at BNQ today
[17:18:38] <SolarNRG> And I saw the pillar drill
[17:18:46] <IchGuckLive> first timer stepper builder
[17:18:50] <SolarNRG> And I noticed the SLOWEST it goes is 540rpm which is way too fast for steel
[17:19:03] <SolarNRG> Hey I've driven a 1nm precision stepper motor off a ULN2003 and an arduino!
[17:19:08] <SolarNRG> I do understand steppers
[17:19:19] <SolarNRG> But there isn't one chip that can handle the raw power of these steppers
[17:19:59] <IchGuckLive> tb6560 in serial mode 2,1A
[17:20:34] <SolarNRG> And I haven't a parallel port, at least I do on my desktop but its dead
[17:20:47] <SolarNRG> I drove that smaller stepper off the USB
[17:21:01] <IchGuckLive> get a mesacard
[17:21:01] <SolarNRG> But there's no way a USB can output enough current for a Nema34
[17:21:05] <SolarNRG> mesa card?
[17:21:45] <IchGuckLive> you only need enable step and dir the chip will do the rest
[17:22:10] <SolarNRG> so no faffing around with counters, half step algorithm, delays
[17:22:37] <IchGuckLive> id like to advice to buy a 30USD new Desktop PC like IBM A50
[17:22:50] <SolarNRG> I got a dead quad core
[17:22:54] <IchGuckLive> 3,2Ghz at 1GB Ram
[17:22:56] <SolarNRG> power supply ok
[17:22:58] <SolarNRG> graphics ok
[17:23:01] <SolarNRG> motherboard FUCKED
[17:23:04] <SolarNRG> RAM ok
[17:23:15] <SolarNRG> hdd ok
[17:23:17] <SolarNRG> i think
[17:23:23] <IchGuckLive> doesent matter if you cand get signals out its shit
[17:24:13] <IchGuckLive> your car can be good in all part but no way wit no air in the tire
[17:24:23] <SolarNRG> yeah
[17:24:32] <SolarNRG> we had that problem a few weeks back
[17:24:32] <IchGuckLive> B) O.o
[17:24:42] <SolarNRG> the AA told us to go fuck ourselves
[17:24:50] <SolarNRG> So we rang up a mate to sort it out for us
[17:24:53] <SolarNRG> brought out his jack
[17:24:55] <IchGuckLive> thats british
[17:24:57] <SolarNRG> kicked teh wheel off
[17:25:17] <SolarNRG> we bought a 2nd hand wheel from the scrappy
[17:25:19] <SolarNRG> put it on
[17:25:20] <SolarNRG> happy birthday
[17:25:36] <IchGuckLive> thats what you shoudt do with your desktop
[17:26:16] <SolarNRG> If only there were a junkyard for old motherboards
[17:26:17] <IchGuckLive> stepper site is 60x60x86mm
[17:26:22] <SolarNRG> yep that 's the one
[17:26:25] <IchGuckLive> or 57x57x67
[17:26:29] <SolarNRG> 60
[17:27:32] <IchGuckLive> http://de.nanotec.com/images/graphik/big/341_neu.png
[17:27:42] <IchGuckLive> thats your goal
[17:28:18] <SolarNRG> So 48v power supply? Where do I get that?
[17:28:31] <SolarNRG> I can do 12v off my PC power supply easy
[17:28:32] <IchGuckLive> this is on half stepping
[17:28:34] <SolarNRG> but 48v?
[17:28:41] <SolarNRG> Sure, halfstep is teh best
[17:29:12] <IchGuckLive> 12V will bring you down to 30Rpm of the stepper per min
[17:29:22] <IchGuckLive> at 3.2Nm
[17:29:55] <IchGuckLive> SolarNRG: 3Axis or 4A
[17:30:35] <IchGuckLive> 3steppers so you need 3 leadshine M542
[17:30:58] <roycroft> solarnrg: http://www.motioncontrolproducts.com/power-supplies/ps-range.php?cat=8
[17:31:01] <roycroft> as one example
[17:31:05] <IchGuckLive> this will run your steppers at 300Rpm max
[17:31:26] <IchGuckLive> roycroft: he is in scotland
[17:31:57] <IchGuckLive> so meanweel powersuply is the best for him
[17:32:00] <roycroft> that's probably not a good example then
[17:32:26] <IchGuckLive> next TV repair store
[17:32:28] <roycroft> well, that outfit are in dorset
[17:32:40] <roycroft> they might ship to scotland
[17:32:54] <IchGuckLive> get the supply book and get it at 320Wats for 49.95
[17:33:26] <IchGuckLive> 48V 10.5A
[17:33:50] <IchGuckLive> sorry 6.7A
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[17:35:38] <IchGuckLive> or nice woudt also be our chinese friend ZEN CNCtooling §axis including all stuff for 75Pound
[17:42:50] <SolarNRG> Do you think that 7 amps at 48 volt is enough?
[17:43:00] <IchGuckLive> plenty
[17:43:34] <IchGuckLive> the steppers take 3.8V at 4.2A
[17:44:02] <IchGuckLive> meshure the Ohm
[17:44:05] <SolarNRG> Eh? But I'm putting 48v into each of the commons?
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[17:45:08] <IchGuckLive> your driving on impedence not Amps
[17:45:28] <IchGuckLive> 0.7Ohms per Curl
[17:45:48] <IchGuckLive> or 1.4Ohm at 5.1V
[17:46:57] <SolarNRG> So I want a 3.8v 4.2A power supply then, not a 48volt one
[17:46:59] <IchGuckLive> mesure the length if 67mm you are at 2Nm at 88mm at 3Mn
[17:47:23] <IchGuckLive> SolarNRG: this is what realy is be burned
[17:48:03] <SolarNRG> 1.2 ohms
[17:48:08] <IchGuckLive> 35W at the given rates is burned u p
[17:48:09] <roycroft> there's a good article that discusses feeding higher voltages to stepper motors
[17:48:09] <SolarNRG> but you have to find the right pair
[17:48:11] * roycroft searches
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[17:49:00] <IchGuckLive> on 8 wire you got 4 pairs
[17:49:17] <SolarNRG> yeah
[17:49:18] <IchGuckLive> can you make a color chema
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[17:49:45] <SolarNRG> how do you know which one's +ve and which one is -ve?
[17:49:52] <IchGuckLive> 1.2Ohm so 2.4 at max Tourch
[17:49:53] <SolarNRG> My old 6 wire one was easy to know
[17:50:26] <IchGuckLive> the M542 will turn read if you missconect
[17:50:43] <IchGuckLive> the motor will stal if you are wrong
[17:51:15] <SolarNRG> That's a lot of combinations
[17:51:22] <IchGuckLive> you can give 5V and 0.5A to the coil then you see a impedence on the common
[17:51:43] <IchGuckLive> this is then second A/A-
[17:52:01] <IchGuckLive> so you are done with one mesurment
[17:52:22] <IchGuckLive> but there is a color code for most known steppers
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[17:53:12] <SolarNRG> I had to work it out myself
[17:53:21] <SolarNRG> On my old one it was yellow orange black brown
[17:53:28] <SolarNRG> red and green were common
[17:53:32] <SolarNRG> i.e .5v in
[17:53:43] <archivist> see data sheets with these motors http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Stepper-Motors/Stepper-Motors
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[17:54:59] <IchGuckLive> so you are done then
[17:55:25] <SolarNRG> So I need a working PC, some stepper driver boards, a 48v power supply and then I got the motors to turn
[17:55:34] <SolarNRG> But without a CNC machine
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[17:56:01] <roycroft> you might need a breakout board, depending on the quality of the parallel port on your computer
[17:56:10] <IchGuckLive> if you got L298/297 they will turn on 12V
[17:56:20] <IchGuckLive> arduino
[17:56:41] <IchGuckLive> shoure but not at 300rpm and 3Nm
[17:56:44] <SolarNRG> Can I use the arduino as an improvised parallel port as my laptop has no parallel?
[17:56:55] <IchGuckLive> yes
[17:56:59] <Aero-Tec> what is a joint following error?
[17:57:09] <IchGuckLive> linuxcnc suports that
[17:57:25] <archivist> IchGuckLive, since when
[17:57:40] <IchGuckLive> 2.3.5
[17:57:44] <jv4779> are there any current generation or atleat commonly availble mainboards that can deliver <3000us jitter ?
[17:58:10] <archivist> SolarNRG, laptops often have latency problems too
[17:58:22] <SolarNRG> And desktops don't?
[17:58:23] <IchGuckLive> jv4779: did you see the hardwarelist
[17:58:55] <IchGuckLive> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Latency-Test
[17:59:19] <jv4779> IchGuckLive: I have looked at lists and other blog posts about latancy and they seem to referance mosly stuff that is already only avaiable as surplus or other 2nd hand
[17:59:48] <jv4779> such as Intel D510
[17:59:54] <IchGuckLive> ASUS AT5NM10-I
[17:59:56] <Aero-Tec> got my 5 axis mill running but the b axis errors out when doing longer moves
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[18:00:14] <Aero-Tec> joint following error
[18:00:34] <IchGuckLive> Aero-Tec: you dont use the Zen or that is what it shows on 5axis
[18:01:12] <Aero-Tec> am I going over some sort of limit?
[18:01:28] <Aero-Tec> not following
[18:01:35] <IchGuckLive> Aero-Tec: did you pull the last git so the bug on stepgen is not in your 2.4.6
[18:01:50] <Aero-Tec> dont use the zen?
[18:02:11] <IchGuckLive> TB6560 %axis board Zen cnc
[18:02:14] <IchGuckLive> 5Axis
[18:02:33] <Aero-Tec> not using that
[18:02:43] <Aero-Tec> just P port
[18:02:54] <IchGuckLive> your 5th axis is on 16/17
[18:02:57] <Aero-Tec> will get a board soon
[18:03:30] <Aero-Tec> pin 16/17?
[18:03:46] <IchGuckLive> parport 5th axis Step and dir
[18:03:52] <Aero-Tec> not sure what your saying
[18:03:59] <IchGuckLive> pinnumber
[18:04:01] <Aero-Tec> yes step and dir
[18:04:24] <IchGuckLive> you need to get the steps inside the DATA
[18:04:27] <Aero-Tec> got it all working, at least the stuff I have tested so far
[18:04:49] <IchGuckLive> otherwise the parport rest will trouble your 5th axis
[18:04:57] <Aero-Tec> how do I get the step inside the data?
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[18:05:14] <IchGuckLive> use pin 2-9
[18:06:06] <IchGuckLive> step is more importend then dir
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[18:06:20] <Aero-Tec> the s/d pins are data pins
[18:06:47] <jdhNC> there are only 8 data pins
[18:06:57] <IchGuckLive> you only got 8 so you need 2 more
[18:06:57] <Aero-Tec> was wondering if I was going out of limits
[18:07:00] <jdhNC> hard to get 5 step/dir into 8ins
[18:07:20] <jv4779> 2 parports
[18:07:30] <Aero-Tec> right now for testing z is not used
[18:07:38] <IchGuckLive> so use the DATA for the step and 16/17 for the DIR A B
[18:07:55] <archivist> Aero-Tec, dont listen...I have 5 axis on one par port :)
[18:08:10] <IchGuckLive> i also run 5Axis perfect over this
[18:08:15] <Aero-Tec> so it is 4 axis x,y,a,b
[18:08:35] <archivist> Aero-Tec, you may need to add a pull up to some lines
[18:08:39] <IchGuckLive> this is well good for the DATA
[18:09:06] <Aero-Tec> so why the error?
[18:09:23] <IchGuckLive> Aero-Tec: Parport->74HCT14-Optocoppler
[18:09:41] <IchGuckLive> or direct parport driver
[18:09:46] <archivist> use a real scope to check signals
[18:09:59] <Aero-Tec> the board is cnc2c
[18:10:11] <Aero-Tec> the bob
[18:10:34] <IchGuckLive> so are you on 2000 2000 15000 15000
[18:10:44] <archivist> I dont cares who's board it is some PC ports are not the same
[18:10:51] <Aero-Tec> I am trying to get it to move as fast as possible
[18:11:07] <archivist> you never said what the error was
[18:11:17] <IchGuckLive> Aero-Tec: tricky with no steplos
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[18:11:34] <archivist> joint following has nothing to do with port problems
[18:12:13] <IchGuckLive> Aero-Tec: Steppers ? Volts abd A ?
[18:12:22] <IchGuckLive> and
[18:12:40] <Aero-Tec> archivist: I said it 2 times "joint following error"
[18:12:59] <archivist> IchGuckLive, look at his error NOTHING to do with the port see <Aero-Tec> joint following error
[18:13:01] <Aero-Tec> it takes off great and then bang
[18:13:25] <archivist> look at latency problems dont go too fast
[18:13:47] <IchGuckLive> oh im totaly of topic sorry aero
[18:13:56] <Aero-Tec> I have been able to change the time it errors by changing the acc and max
[18:14:24] <archivist> the software is detecting the impossible and giving you the error message
[18:14:28] <IchGuckLive> 10% higer then the acc
[18:14:55] <IchGuckLive> Aero-Tec: can you post the ini
[18:15:38] <IchGuckLive> oh i need to go BY time out !
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[18:17:01] <archivist> SolarNRG, while there is arduino support, I dont know if it can handle steppers at all
[18:17:58] <archivist> SolarNRG, see http://axis.unpy.net/01198594294
[18:18:24] <Aero-Tec> max vol 1800
[18:18:48] <Aero-Tec> max stepgen acc 5000
[18:18:59] <Aero-Tec> max acc 5000
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[18:19:20] <archivist> your base period etc and latency have to be very good to get high step rates
[18:19:52] <Aero-Tec> with max vol at 7000 it errorred faster
[18:20:06] <archivist> Im not surprised
[18:20:19] <Aero-Tec> so jitter errored it out?
[18:20:41] <archivist> get hardware stepping (mesa etc)
[18:20:57] <Aero-Tec> I plan on it
[18:21:08] <Aero-Tec> just have not done it yet
[18:21:11] <archivist> run slower till then
[18:21:44] <archivist> what latency do you get
[18:21:46] <Aero-Tec> have to save up a tab more to get all the cool things I want from mesa
[18:22:02] <Aero-Tec> not sure
[18:22:15] <Aero-Tec> have it set at default 15000
[18:23:12] <Aero-Tec> the 5the axis is just a high speed version of 4
[18:23:19] <Aero-Tec> for making springs
[18:24:04] <Aero-Tec> just clamp it in a vise and load the spring wire guide into the spindle and your making springs
[18:24:11] <Aero-Tec> but need the speed
[18:24:33] <archivist> you really need to check latency
[18:24:37] <Aero-Tec> so when I make springs the z is not used
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[18:25:30] <archivist> any microstepping on b?
[18:25:38] <Aero-Tec> yes
[18:25:40] <Aero-Tec> 10
[18:26:21] <archivist> reduce so the output step speed is lower, I run at 1/2 step
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[18:26:59] <Aero-Tec> not sure I can set it with the gecko I have
[18:27:29] <Aero-Tec> I think it only does 10
[18:27:36] <Aero-Tec> will have to check
[18:27:36] <archivist> ew
[18:27:43] <jdhNC> seems unlikely
[18:28:14] <jdhNC> G540 has a fixed 10x microstepping
[18:28:33] <pcw_home> jv4779 Someone on IRC (alexander something) reported really good
[18:28:34] <pcw_home> results with the Intel DN2800MT (which is new) this likely means the 2600 and 2700 are OK as well. Looks like all the Intel Atom MBa so far have been good (d945,D510,D525 DN2800 etc)
[18:29:05] <archivist> I think that stuff tries to be clever and it does its own step mode change at speed leaving the user with silly step rates at speed
[18:31:21] <Aero-Tec> it is a G201
[18:31:27] <Aero-Tec> only 10
[18:31:46] <Aero-Tec> have to buy a board to get other options
[18:33:45] <Aero-Tec> does one have to shut down EMC and edit the files and restart or is there a short cut to playing with the settings?
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[18:34:45] <pcw_home> setp xxxx yyyy in the show hal configuration menu is one way
[18:34:57] <andypugh> I have just realised that I am a hobbyist of the worst kind. In the last 2 weeks I have spent £100 on tooling for machine tools that haven't been turned on for 3 months.
[18:35:08] <jdhNC> cool
[18:36:07] <archivist> Aero-Tec, just restart linuxcnc
[18:36:17] <andypugh> in addition to what PCW says, you can type halcmd setp xxx yyy at the command prompt. There is the slight advantage that way of history (up-down arrows) and tab-copmpletion.
[18:36:54] <Aero-Tec> andypugh: nothing wrong with getting the stuff you will need when you do turn it on
[18:37:42] <Aero-Tec> just try not to go so long between turning them off
[18:38:00] <Aero-Tec> turning them on
[18:38:15] <Aero-Tec> not sure where the off came from
[18:38:18] <skunkworks> Aero-Tec max stepgen acc 5000
[18:38:20] <skunkworks> Aero-Tec max acc 5000
[18:38:21] <skunkworks> Aero-tec: you need the stepgen max acc to be a good 20% higher than the max acc.. SO
[18:38:23] <skunkworks> Aero-Tec max stepgen acc 7000
[18:38:25] <skunkworks> Aero-Tec max acc 5000
[18:38:56] <andypugh> Well, I have been out of the country a fair bit of that time. And I am distracted by writing software to control a machine I don't have. Or ever intend to have. Which now I think about it, doesn't make much sense :-)
[18:38:59] <Aero-Tec> cool thanks
[18:40:18] <skunkworks> (that will cause following errors...)
[18:40:48] <Aero-Tec> andypugh: it would if hey were paying you to write the programs
[18:41:02] <Aero-Tec> they
[18:41:25] <Aero-Tec> I am guessing they are not paying you
[18:41:27] <andypugh> If only that were the case, but no.
[18:41:49] <Aero-Tec> well writing program can be fun as well
[18:41:59] <andypugh> I actively avoif being paid to do stuff, I don't like the pressure to complete somethign usable.
[18:42:02] <Aero-Tec> I have done a few of them
[18:42:46] <roycroft> if you're writing software for a machine you don't have nor intend to have, you won't have to suffer with any bugs
[18:42:48] <Aero-Tec> off to try the new info I got
[18:42:49] <Aero-Tec> thanks
[18:42:50] <roycroft> sounds like a dream project
[18:43:23] <Aero-Tec> he would if other are using the program
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[18:44:04] <Aero-Tec> the worst kind of bug, other guys messing up and you have no direct way to test it
[18:44:42] <Aero-Tec> I hate working on stuff when I do not have hands on with the equipment
[18:50:27] <andypugh> I have written drivers for at least two interface cards with no hardware (Mesa 5i65 and an old ISA card (PCL720))
[18:50:35] <andypugh> But it isn't ideal.
[18:54:26] <jthornton> archivist, thanks for the link... I just got back from taking the MIL to PT and she don't like that!
[18:54:43] <Aero-Tec> well got it working
[18:55:01] <Aero-Tec> played with the numbers
[18:55:10] <Aero-Tec> did not like 1800
[18:55:50] <Aero-Tec> on a rotary axis, is there a way to get to 0 with out unwinding the whole way?
[18:56:02] <Aero-Tec> like a 360 roll over
[18:56:54] <andypugh> Aero-Tec: WRAPPED_ROTARY = true in the INI
[18:56:55] <Aero-Tec> when making springs I have to run in one dir a long way, but do not need or want to unwind the whole way
[18:57:02] <Aero-Tec> cool
[18:57:04] <Aero-Tec> thanks
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[18:57:26] <andypugh> But, it won't work for you if you need more than one coil in the spring, I think.
[18:57:44] <andypugh> Perhaps you would prefer G10 L2 A0
[18:57:46] <cradek> yes it will, just use G91
[18:57:56] <archivist> that wrapped really needs fixing for certain uses :)
[18:57:58] <Aero-Tec> so g0 move to 0 will take the shortest rout?
[18:58:13] <cradek> no
[18:58:24] <andypugh> cradek points out a good point, pointedly.
[18:58:30] <cradek> g0 +0 will go positive direction to zero, g0 -0 will go in the negative direction
[18:59:01] <Aero-Tec> cool
[18:59:33] <andypugh> I think cradek is also saying that G91 G1 A720 will do two full turns?
[18:59:47] <cradek> yes iirc
[19:00:03] <archivist> I thought the max was 359.999
[19:00:16] <cradek> for g90, yes
[19:01:09] <cradek> if you're at A30 and you program G91A720, it'll turn two turns positive and the DRO will say 30 at the end
[19:01:24] <Aero-Tec> if I move the machine to the zero I want to use, what is the best way to zero the machine to that spot
[19:01:39] <cradek> touch off
[19:02:19] <Aero-Tec> ok, thanks
[19:02:46] <Aero-Tec> just thought there was a quick and easy way to zero the whole machine at one time
[19:03:07] <Aero-Tec> instead of doing each axis one at a time
[19:04:15] <andypugh> If you need to do it often, you could create a UI button linked to an MDI_COMMAND that does a G10.
[19:04:43] <andypugh> (I am not sure _which_ G10, there are four options I can never keep track of.
[19:04:57] <archivist> Im using g1 with the rotary and other axes and need a fast move to nearest 0
[19:05:20] <cradek> there is no gcode for "nearest 0"
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[19:11:35] <archivist> I see Can motions of more than 360 degrees be commanded? (answer: No -- irc conversation 2009/01/16) in the wiki
[19:12:03] <cradek> did you try it?
[19:12:16] <archivist> no I read docs
[19:12:17] <cradek> I think it works but I didn't try it. 2009 is long ago.
[19:12:43] <cradek> maybe someone will eventually try :-)
[19:12:55] <archivist> and it is what Aero-Tec needs too
[19:14:30] <cradek> yeah it works how I said
[19:14:44] <archivist> I was expecting the draft (http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?WrappedRotaryAxes) to get updated when it got implemented :)
[19:14:57] <cradek> g90 g0 a720 => error
[19:15:13] <cradek> g91 g0 a720 => two turns positive, DRO showing 0 afterward
[19:15:44] <cradek> g91 g0 a-720 => two turns negative, DRO showing 0 afterward
[19:16:38] <cradek> I bet this isn't very well documented, or at all
[19:16:43] <archivist> no mention of effects to wrapped in g90/91 docs as far as I can see
[19:17:11] <archivist> you see why I dont try things then
[19:17:26] <cradek> maybe should be in http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode/overview.html
[19:20:14] <archivist> but why should I go into incremental when the code is absolute for all axes, seems odd
[19:20:53] <cradek> because if it's wrapped, there's no absolute position more than one turn from where you are
[19:21:17] <cradek> if you want a full turn or more, relative is the only way that makes sense to get that in wrapped mode
[19:21:39] <cradek> if you want unwrapped, you have that option too, and absolute position can be anything
[19:22:01] <cradek> it seems like you want conflicting things
[19:22:21] <cradek> (the other answer is who cares what the gcode looks like if you get the motion you need)
[19:22:51] <archivist> not really, it seems others dont understand the simple start from 0 and do 30 revs on A and 1" on x
[19:23:39] <cradek> you can get that motion in either wrapped or normal mode
[19:23:59] <archivist> normal means wind back 30
[19:24:11] <cradek> or use g10 or g92
[19:24:20] <archivist> wrapped is forcing incremental for the 1"
[19:24:27] <cradek> yes
[19:24:49] <cradek> are you proposing we need a third way to get the same motions :-/
[19:24:56] <archivist> er yes
[19:25:04] <cradek> then propose it
[19:25:31] <archivist> I did...a fast move to nearest rotary axis 0
[19:26:04] <cradek> and then the dro changes to 0?
[19:26:12] <andypugh> G90.2, G91.2, incremental rotary, without absolute catersian?
[19:26:14] <archivist> yes
[19:27:05] <cradek> I think you're not the only one who has wanted that
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[19:28:11] <archivist> It is really needed for hobbing machines that use general gcode without a hal comp
[19:28:41] <archivist> and spring winders etc
[19:29:16] <archivist> and thread milling
[19:29:26] <cradek> wrapped seems very close to providing the same utility, and has the advantage that it's like commercial controls, and the advantage that it's already implemented
[19:30:05] <andypugh> archivist: You might be able to do it with #5423 and some modular arithmetic, followed by a G10.
[19:30:39] <archivist> at the moment I dont have cash to cnc the hobbing machine to try stuff
[19:31:37] <cradek> yes there are several ways you can do it yourself
[19:34:39] <JT-Shop> Yippee I found a 30Kw 3 phase generator to borrow... I forgot to ask the voltage :/ don't matter we have a transformer
[19:35:03] <Connor> JT-Shop: Why do you need to borrow a generator ? :)
[19:35:05] <cradek> wow that's some brute force troubleshooting!
[19:35:34] <archivist> a baby genset :)
[19:36:07] <JT-Shop> Connor: to prove where the problem with my VMC is
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[19:36:12] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Dude, if you just wanted to to build a whole side of beef rotisserie, I think we could have come up with something better than a 30KW generator
[19:36:30] <JT-Shop> not around here, you can't even rent one
[19:36:46] <Connor> What's going on?
[19:36:59] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Well, I was more thinking the power tackeoff on your tractor
[19:37:01] <Connor> You think the 3phase from power company isn't any good?
[19:37:07] <JT-Shop> drive faults out
[19:37:39] <JT-Shop> Connor: I live in the woods on a dead end dirt road off of a dirt road... nearest 3 phase is miles and miles away from me
[19:37:46] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Tractor BBQ!!! lol
[19:37:51] <archivist> Connor, he is on single phase and creates his own 3
[19:38:14] <Connor> Okay, So, you got a 3phase motor using it as a converter.. and you want to make sure that's not the issue.
[19:38:29] <JT-Shop> all the machines run fine except the one with the Simodrive 611 in it
[19:38:34] <archivist> I wonder if the locals would complain if I ran mine http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2005/2005_05_03_Generator/P4231086.JPG
[19:38:36] <JT-Shop> yep
[19:40:12] <JT-Shop> archivist: nice one but someone stole your battery
[19:40:21] <archivist> me
[19:40:35] <JT-Shop> gas?
[19:40:44] <archivist> deseasal
[19:40:48] <Connor> okay, what is a Simodrive 611 ?
[19:41:01] <andypugh> I am baffled by the roller on the exhaust
[19:41:10] <Jymmm> Youg guys have all these wussy whimpy generators, Now, THIS is a beefy generator (that I proudly own) http://www.speedwaysales.com/images/woodstoves/hondadccable2.jpg
[19:41:17] <JT-Shop> a Siemens drive
[19:41:28] <alex4nder> hey
[19:41:30] <archivist> andypugh, stops rain getting in when out of use
[19:41:53] <andypugh> I am used to seeing a flap, that appears to be something else
[19:42:10] <JT-Shop> I think it fits over the pipe
[19:42:11] <archivist> the silencer is off at the moment
[19:42:34] <JT-Shop> like a bucket with some decorations on top
[19:42:34] <andypugh> Ah, is that some random cast-iron fitting then?
[19:42:40] <archivist> yup
[19:42:57] * JT-Shop goes to hook up the trailer
[19:43:32] <Jymmm> Why in the hell was I thinking that diesel engines don't need radiators?
[19:44:06] <archivist> that thing blows through the radiator, dont stand in front
[19:44:14] <Connor> I dunno.. They use glow plugs... not spark plugs.. and need fuel heaters for winter time use..
[19:44:32] <archivist> no glows on mine
[19:44:44] <Jymmm> I've seen diesel engines run 24hours a day non-stop for days on end before.
[19:44:47] <Connor> archivist: No? Sparkplugs ?
[19:45:07] <archivist> Connor, direct injection does not need them
[19:45:15] <Connor> Oh. okay.
[19:45:31] <archivist> just a "bit" noisier
[19:45:34] <Connor> How many Khv is that thing ?
[19:45:57] <archivist> 60 kva iirc
[19:46:12] <Connor> nice. 1 phase or 3 phase ?
[19:46:16] <archivist> 3
[19:46:21] <Jymmm> archivist: Do yoou outsource your service to the local utility company? lol
[19:46:35] <andypugh> Direct injection engines often do have glow plugs.
[19:46:51] <archivist> I could run the estate if we get more strikes
[19:46:52] <andypugh> Certainly in passenger car use.
[19:48:56] <archivist> perkins 6354
[19:49:22] <archivist> early 70's version no turbo
[19:52:02] <andypugh> No turbo? You will be telling me there is no Exhaust Gas Recirculation or Diesel Particulate Filter next!
[19:52:35] <archivist> hell no
[19:53:49] <archivist> hmm there is a turbo one on a genset on fleabay for £3500
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[19:55:16] <archivist> hmm over stated my kva must be 50 ish as its 60 amps per phase
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[20:05:13] <frederir> Hi
[20:05:41] <archivist> andypugh, any still using pre heaters in the inlet tract like the perkins for starting?
[20:06:07] <andypugh> sometimes
[20:06:12] <frederir> I want to play a little with linuxcnc, and try a different hardware than parport.
[20:06:21] <frederir> On : http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Emc2HardwareDesign
[20:06:29] <andypugh> but not so much with the new dast-glow plugs
[20:06:35] <frederir> the 16550 FIFO. However, the top speed is 115200baud. In 200us, only 16 usable bits can be transmitted in each direction
[20:07:04] <frederir> What about a RS422 port running at something like 1Mbits ?
[20:07:40] <frederir> Would it be a possible solution ?
[20:07:42] <archivist> frederir, why..are you trying to use an old laptop or something
[20:08:25] <archivist> frederir, speak in chan
[20:08:39] <frederir> ok
[20:09:06] <frederir> No my main concern with parport driver is the high current switching through long wire
[20:09:23] <Connor> how long ?
[20:09:43] <Connor> and, It's not high current..
[20:09:47] <frederir> So I' m looking at a solution with a local stepper driver close to the motor
[20:10:16] <frederir> well 2 amps in a 80cm wire is quite high current and quite long
[20:10:36] <frederir> Of course you always can find longer and higher current
[20:11:11] <Connor> 18 Gauge wire and your good to do..
[20:11:14] <pcw_home> differential step/dir is good for s long ways
[20:11:40] <frederir> And it radiates to the point you can not read switch reliabely
[20:11:43] <Connor> You talking about the wire from the stepper driver to the motor, or from the computer/parport to the driver ?
[20:11:51] <archivist> run the step dir signals over the wires not motor currents
[20:11:57] <frederir> from stepper to motor
[20:12:21] <frederir> from driver to motor
[20:12:43] <pcw_home> you dont want the drives out where conductive crap will fall into them however
[20:12:44] <archivist> frederir, you can also run the pc headless near the machine and remote the display
[20:13:22] <Connor> Mine have 6' to 10' cable lengths.. running @ 6amps 48v.
[20:13:51] <frederir> I was wondering what would be the problem to have a board with a RS485 + uC + stepper driver at the back of a step motor
[20:14:05] <jdhNC> to solve what problem?
[20:14:45] <frederir> First radio emissions and to simplify wiring
[20:15:02] <pcw_home> differential step/dir would be better
[20:15:20] <archivist> the stepper driver can and should be closer to the motor, its the step dir wires that can be long
[20:16:09] <frederir> Well sure differential step/dir would be easier
[20:16:13] <archivist> you dont need the uc
[20:16:31] <frederir> true
[20:16:31] <pcw_home> and its works as-is with LinuxCNC
[20:16:39] <frederir> also true
[20:17:15] <frederir> And I will probabely end with this solutino
[20:17:21] <frederir> But,
[20:17:33] <pcw_home> rules out Gecko who in their wisdom commoned some opto leads
[20:18:15] <frederir> a solution with a RS485 on High speed serial port would work, no ?
[20:18:16] <jdhNC> connor: are you running the 570's at 6amp?
[20:18:44] <frederir> With a speed command for the motor
[20:18:44] <Connor> jdhNC: What ever the 570's and drivers will push.. I think it's 5.4 or 5.2amps
[20:19:21] <jdhNC> It sounds like you have a solution that you want to use, regardless of their being a problem to solve?
[20:19:27] <pcw_home> Speed command and position feedback is required
[20:19:28] <jdhNC> or there.
[20:20:31] <archivist> frederir, you need coordination, buffering in some serial thing would not help that
[20:20:33] <frederir> If I understood correctly, the speed command goes from joint controller to HAL
[20:20:43] <jdhNC> connor: my ballscrews/nuts were delivered today. Looks like I have to completely tear the table apart to install them.
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[20:20:47] <frederir> I did not speak of buffering
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[20:21:11] <archivist> you have to buffer to unserialise
[20:22:10] <frederir> If by buffer you mean I've to get 4 bytes in a buffer to read a 32bits word then yes I've to buffer
[20:23:46] <Connor> frederir: What is this for? Application wise?
[20:23:50] <frederir> But to transmit a 32bits word, it's less than 50s at 1Mbits
[20:24:08] <frederir> Running a large CNC
[20:24:08] <pcw_home> its certainly do-able (Its how the hardware stepgens supported by LinuxCNC work)
[20:24:10] <pcw_home> send out rate, read back position (so more like 100 usec)
[20:25:18] <pcw_home> 1/2 that for full duplex (RS-422 is usually better in every way than RS-485 other than 2x wires)
[20:25:28] <frederir> Yes
[20:26:09] <frederir> a 4 pins plug is nice, but I would manage a 6 pins for RS422+Power
[20:27:00] <jdhNC> is there an sserial stepdaughterboard for this?
[20:27:06] <pcw_home> Thats pretty much what out SSERIAL stuff does
[20:27:28] <pcw_home> though its 2.5 MBaud
[20:27:58] <frederir> SSERIAL ?
[20:28:06] <pcw_home> No we have encoder counters but no stepgens but it would be pretty easy
[20:28:33] <jdhNC> you would need additional power for logic?
[20:29:01] <pcw_home> we send 5V down the wire
[20:29:05] <frederir> Dc/Dc from main power
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[20:30:26] <pcw_home> Usually the logic runs at 3.3 so we can tolerate a fair amount of drop (and use isolated field power if more than a few Ma is needed)
[20:31:18] <frederir> SSERIAL = http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/man/man9/hostmot2.9.html#Smart%20Serial%20Interface ?
[20:31:29] <pcw_home> Stepgen would need a new data type so autoconf would find/configure it properly
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[20:41:31] <DJ9DJ> gn8
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[20:42:49] <andypugh> pcw_home: Possibly not, software stepgens just get sent a float position, if the sserial one had a float scale pin too, then it's all there.
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[20:53:21] <frederir> thank for helping
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[20:53:36] <frederir> good night/good day
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[21:04:41] <PCW> andypugh: yes maybe just appropriate names would work, but if the low level ucontroller did not deal
[21:04:43] <PCW> with floating point and and just raw binary rate and position feedback it might be nice to have a type
[21:04:45] <PCW> so they can be connected to the right type of controller
[21:06:56] <andypugh> Can they just declare as ordinary Hostmot2 stepgens? Except that the buffers go out on serial rather than PCI? Imay be missing a layer.
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[21:07:38] <PCW> Well there a whole missing layer here for setup vs process data
[21:08:08] <andypugh> OK, it's been a while since I looked at.
[21:08:43] <PCW> the stepgen a lot of setup but this need only be done once
[21:09:40] <PCW> and sserial remotes dont currently expose setup parameters
[21:11:26] <PCW> if there was a way to do setup only once at startup that would be nice
[21:11:27] <PCW> (are parameters like this? or do the invoke a low level update if parameters are changed)
[21:12:10] <PCW> (never been sure about the differences of pins and parameters)
[21:12:17] <andypugh> I wonder if there is demand? Are you thinking in terms of sserial stepper amps? What does that achieve that step/dir ones don't? (it doesn't save pins, particularly)
[21:13:10] <andypugh> parameters are in kernel memory, not shared memory. So only one component can read/write them.
[21:13:13] <PCW> No juts musing in general, there are quite a few things that would be nice to change at startup
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[21:13:59] <PCW> (if there was a autoconf like way)
[21:14:59] <PCW> that is something a little more flexible than the "modes"
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[21:18:20] <PCW> As an example the 7I73 has 24 encoder count modes but people will have to live with the default 1x mode
[21:18:21] <PCW> (chosen as default since the 7I73 encoder inputs are really for MPGs) unless they want to use a windows PC and set
[21:18:23] <PCW> the counter mode in the EEPROM
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[21:21:30] <PCW> as far as modes go it would be nice if the driver printed the available modes of each sserial remote in the dmesg
[21:21:32] <PCW> (the names are supposed to be descriptive)
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[21:23:22] <PCW> (probably just the software modes)
[21:24:23] <andypugh> Hmm, I guess it would be nice. One solution would be for the device to send the number of modes, then the driver could simply iterate through them. (possibly)
[21:25:08] <andypugh> But I think we might be getting in to things that would be useful to a tiny handful of people.
[21:25:33] <andypugh> And are there 24 ways for an encoder to work?
[21:25:38] <PCW> I'm pretty sure all the modes are retrievable without interation (just by looking at global records)
[21:26:47] <andypugh> I might come back to look at it, at the moment my head is full of finite jerk non-planned motion.
[21:26:48] <PCW> Yes the low level interrupt code that does the encoder has all the possibilities in its lookup table
[21:27:39] <PCW> How is your raster scanner coming?
[21:29:11] <andypugh> I am trying to work out if 0 = jv0 - ja0^2/2 + ao^2 +a(3ao) +a^2(1-j)/2 is correct
[21:29:46] <andypugh> It's been a while since I did any algebra, and I was never great at keping track of signs.
[21:30:22] <PCW> unfortunately in the real world you dont get credit it you miss a sign
[21:31:46] <andypugh> Indeed, nor is there an answer in the back to check against.
[21:32:50] <PCW> I had that trouble too especially with things like partial differential equations where a simple equation blows up into pages of stuff
[21:35:32] <PCW> have you tried using one of those symbolic math programs (Maxima?)
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[21:45:56] <andypugh> I am just playing with Xcas now
[21:47:01] <andypugh> I tried simplify(something long) and it has simplified it more than seems feasible
[21:48:16] <andypugh> http://imagebin.org/212412
[21:49:46] <archivist> ew maffs...I hated it
[21:50:12] <andypugh> I rather liked it, enough to do a physics degree. But that was a while ago.
[21:50:52] <andypugh> Ah, you know, that looks right.
[21:51:12] <archivist> I did like the area under a thigh muff though at Reading uni, OU summer school
[21:53:15] <andypugh> Are you being rude? Thighs and muffs indeed!
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[21:54:33] <archivist> I dont think that lecture would happen these days, but mini skirts allowed for some drawing area
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[22:59:41] <Jymmm> PHUUUUUUUUUK, Gotta hate public utilities... Now I have issues with my water and electricity http://i47.tinypic.com/97qzcw.jpg
[23:00:37] <r00t4rd3d> repost
[23:00:52] <r00t4rd3d> -1
[23:00:58] <Tom_itx> Jymmm what's wrong with that?
[23:01:27] <Jymmm> glowing green water coming from the electrical outlet
[23:01:57] <andypugh> I think that is just unusualy viscous electricity
[23:01:58] <Jymmm> s/water/goo/
[23:02:00] <Tom_itx> it's just the copper
[23:02:22] <Jymmm> andypugh: heh
[23:02:25] <Tom_itx> it would make for a cool night light
[23:02:33] <Jymmm> it IS a nightlight
[23:03:03] <Jymmm> $8 http://www.etsy.com/listing/96964388/green-led-faucet-valve-night-light
[23:03:09] <Tom_itx> it shouldn't be UL approved though
[23:03:18] <Tom_itx> since it almost covers the ajacent outlet
[23:03:34] <Jymmm> oh that's shipping, $50 + $8 shipping
[23:04:02] <r00t4rd3d> kinda dangerous
[23:04:18] <r00t4rd3d> being all metal
[23:04:51] <andypugh> He doesn't claim they are UL approved.
[23:05:00] <r00t4rd3d> im sure he cant
[23:05:19] <Jymmm> the value is the on/off switch too
[23:05:22] <Jymmm> valve
[23:05:38] <r00t4rd3d> rotary switch
[23:05:42] <Jymmm> Well, good use for old faucets
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[23:08:49] <r00t4rd3d> you could make the drop out of some 100% clear silicone chalk
[23:09:33] <r00t4rd3d> even put your led in ther
[23:09:35] <r00t4rd3d> e
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[23:10:34] <r00t4rd3d> what kind of resistor to run a 5v led from 110v?
[23:10:35] <r00t4rd3d> lol
[23:10:50] <Tom_itx> i figured that out already
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[23:11:04] <Tom_itx> you're better off putting a diode inline with it too
[23:11:09] <r00t4rd3d> a mosfet would be better
[23:11:12] <Jymmm> I think you need a cap too since it's AC
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[23:11:13] <Tom_itx> because of the reverse breakdown voltage
[23:11:15] <Tom_itx> of the diode
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[23:11:40] <Tom_itx> about a 30k resistor
[23:11:56] <Tom_itx> and a 1n4148 or something
[23:12:33] <Tom_itx> i was gonna put one on my electrical pannel so i would know when power was restored so i could turn off the generator
[23:12:45] <Tom_itx> since i don't have an automatic switch on it
[23:13:11] <Jymmm> AC Powered LED http://www.bowdenshobbycircuits.info/page10.htm#lineled.gif
[23:13:42] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.amazon.com/Watt-110V-LED-Light-Clear/dp/B000G6XMYE
[23:13:48] <r00t4rd3d> get that and wire it
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[23:14:36] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: ^^^^^
[23:15:21] <Tom_itx> yeah
[23:15:25] <Tom_itx> i did it a bit different
[23:15:35] <andypugh> Tom_itx: 30k restor? Now do the power calculations.
[23:16:13] <Tom_itx> i just put a meter on the resistor i used
[23:16:25] <andypugh> It worked?
[23:16:30] <Tom_itx> yeah
[23:16:40] <Tom_itx> along with the diode in series
[23:16:55] <Tom_itx> so the reverse breakdown v wasn't too much for the led
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[23:17:34] <andypugh> By my calculations at 240V and dropping nearly all of it, that is 2W. OK, so what was I thinking of that was unworkable?
[23:17:41] <Tom_itx> ---/\/\/\--|>----|">-----
[23:17:46] <Tom_itx> how's that for ascii art?
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[23:18:28] <Tom_itx> andypugh we're on 120vac here
[23:18:36] <andypugh> So, 1W then
[23:19:27] <Tom_itx> i used an 1/8w r
[23:19:59] <andypugh> I htink that was undersized
[23:20:42] <Tom_itx> ok, so what size r should i use for 53v dc on an led?
[23:20:53] <Tom_itx> (i got my boards finally)
[23:21:05] <andypugh> Hmm, I think the calculation where I ended up with a stupid resistor power was trying to make 12V to run a relay from 600V DC
[23:21:20] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: http://led.linear1.org/led.wiz
[23:23:01] <Tom_itx> haha
[23:23:03] <Tom_itx> The wizard thinks your source voltage is pretty high. Take appropriate safety precautions please, and don't forget the fuse.
[23:23:09] <andypugh> And it says 1W resistor
[23:23:15] <Tom_itx> i saw that
[23:23:45] <andypugh> 120V is 2720mW
[23:23:57] <andypugh> and 240V is "too high to be practical"
[23:25:04] <Tom_itx> i'll use alot bigger resistor
[23:25:15] <Tom_itx> all i plan to use it for is to drain the caps on shutoff
[23:25:24] <r00t4rd3d> i ordered some wire chain from china and got it today, 5 days.
[23:25:49] <cradek> neon and incandescent bulbs are for this
[23:28:38] <andypugh> Well, there is that.
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[23:34:18] <djdelorie> you don't use a resistor to run an LED from 120v, you use a capacitor
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[23:34:48] <cradek> you don't use anything - it's a fool's task
[23:35:06] <djdelorie> it has its places. Tracking AC phase for zero crossings, for example
[23:35:55] <djdelorie> you use a small capacitor and small resistor in series with an opto isolator's input LED
[23:39:21] <PCW> ahh but then you have ye old shifty phase... unless you want your zeros crossing to lead by ~90 degrees
[23:40:05] <djdelorie> there are ways to hit the zero in software, if the circuit is symmetrical and/or predictable
[23:42:18] <PCW> you software guys always bust things and try to fix 'em in software
[23:44:35] <djdelorie> the right mix of hardware and software is often the most elegant solution
[23:45:36] <djdelorie> in my case, the opto triggered an MCU timer that expired just before the next zero, so the interrupt handler did its thing right at the zero. All "hardware" but not all electronics
[23:53:04] <PCW> I was being facetious but actually I would do a zero crossing detector
[23:53:06] <PCW> with just a resistor into the OPTO LED because the capacitor differentiates the input (high pass filter)
[23:53:08] <PCW> and makes the zero crossing noisier
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[23:55:48] <djdelorie> PCW: a few minutes with a scope gives you the magic timer value to hit the true zero, regardless, with sufficient precision.
[23:56:28] <PCW> Sure
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