#linuxcnc | Logs for 2012-05-11

[00:00:00] <Tom_itx> i posted a couple links on that the other day
[00:00:53] <jdhNC> http://www.ebay.com/itm/400265126593
[00:01:00] <jdhNC> kind of shallow though... nice price.
[00:01:45] <Tom_itx> 6" might be ok for my needs
[00:01:57] <Tom_itx> i need to lay stuff out and see though
[00:03:06] <Tom_itx> would you stick the heatsink fins out the side or leave them in and put a fan on them: http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/cnc/psu/heatsink2.jpg
[00:03:55] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/cnc/psu/driver_wiring.jpg
[00:04:33] <andypugh> Tom_itx: I might just leave them inside with no fan as a Plan A. The box surface area is orders of magnitude greater than that of the components you are trying to cool.
[00:04:47] <Tom_itx> yeah
[00:05:09] <andypugh> Yay! cable lacing: http://www.frobenius.com/bletchley/bl032.jpg Bonus points for naming the device.
[00:05:37] <Tom_itx> holy crap
[00:05:45] <Tom_itx> that's gotta be phone equipment
[00:05:58] <andypugh> No.
[00:06:08] <andypugh> There is a clue in the URL
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[00:06:21] <jdhNC> it's a Bletchley!
[00:06:32] <andypugh> It's _at_ Bletchley
[00:06:43] <Tom_itx> what the heck are all the little gears for?
[00:07:08] <jdhNC> mechanical computer?
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[00:07:35] <andypugh> http://www.frobenius.com/bletchley/bl035.jpg
[00:08:03] <andypugh> http://www.frobenius.com/bletchley/bl038.jpg
[00:08:25] <jdhNC> a turing bombe rebuild!
[00:08:26] <Tom_itx> http://www.dairiki.org/hammond/cable-lacing-howto/
[00:08:29] <andypugh> http://www.frobenius.com/bletchley/bl039.jpg
[00:08:57] <Jymmm> somebody call me?
[00:09:13] <Tom_itx> nope
[00:09:16] <jdhNC> people were calling you names but I told them to stop.
[00:09:18] <andypugh> jdhNC: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombe (Or how the Poles won the war)
[00:09:31] <Tom_itx> http://www.apartmenttherapy.com/try-cable-lacing-to-get-loose-97907
[00:09:32] <Jymmm> jdhNC: no fun in that
[00:09:41] <Jymmm> andypugh: panduit?
[00:09:56] <Jymmm> never heard of it,
[00:10:08] * Tom_itx gives Jymmm some long shoe laces and sends him off to learn about cable lacing
[00:13:17] <Jymmm> When I worked at ____, one of the amp cabinets was just amazing. you could VISUALLY trace every wire in ever harness from point to point. The harness were self-supported. The water cooling hoses didn't use one clamp and never leaked. It was THE MOST BEAUTIFUL wiring job I have ever seen. Far more a work of art than anything else.
[00:14:59] <Jymmm> The amp was in 3 19" rack type cabinets, so you can imagine how much cabling there was.
[00:16:34] <Jymmm> Does anyone know about themo sealing plastics by chance? Specifically PP
[00:17:31] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.robotshop.com/diamondback-arduino-wifi-microcontroller-2.html
[00:18:32] <andypugh> Jymmm: No, I only know anythng about doing it deliberately.
[00:18:47] <Jymmm> andypugh: Heh
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[00:25:00] <gene__> Andy, thanks for the help, its working pretty good now. But the temps are dropping like a rock, so I'm outta here
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[00:26:33] <djdelorie> maybe you should feed them more... ;-)
[00:26:52] <jdhNC> nah, that's why you hire contractors
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[00:33:00] <Jymmm> maybe not feed them , but at least give them some brown water
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[00:38:14] <alex_joni> Jymmm: found a couple more infected files
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[00:40:20] <tjb1> Got the 16x2 lcd working, gonna use it to display tip voltage :)
[00:43:36] <Jymmm> alex_joni: Any obvious pattern to them?
[00:44:22] <Jymmm> alex_joni: I'd RO the files you've cleaned (at least for now), till you are sure you've cleaned everything.
[00:45:43] <alex_joni> they are all RO
[00:45:49] <alex_joni> now
[00:45:59] <Jymmm> alex_joni: cool
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[00:53:28] <ReadError_> alex_joni
[00:53:32] <ReadError_> run clamav
[00:53:41] <ReadError_> its pretty good about find bad php/shell scripts
[00:53:59] <ReadError_> its typically what i use at work
[00:56:22] <tjb1> Should this be purchased with a new tig welder - http://www.harrisweldingsupplies.com/lincoln-parts-kit-kp508.aspx
[00:56:58] <alex_joni> ReadError_: not installed on that box
[00:58:28] <ReadError_> you just have a shell?
[00:58:45] <ReadError_> you can mount it as an SCP share on a local box
[00:58:49] <ReadError_> and run it that way ;)
[00:58:54] <ReadError_> somewhat ghetto but should work
[00:59:05] <ReadError_> SFTP*
[01:01:31] <alex_joni> yeah, I'll give it a go tomorrow
[01:02:36] <Jymmm> alex_joni: You'll need to RTFM ClamAV btw.
[01:02:55] <Jymmm> alex_joni: It's not "straight forward" intuitive as one may think.
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[01:03:26] <Jymmm> alex_joni: LOTS of options when running/updating it
[01:03:27] <alex_joni> Jymmm: surely not for 4am ;)
[01:03:47] <Jymmm> alex_joni: No, not for 4am, more like 1pm
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[01:03:57] <alex_joni> siesta :D
[01:04:12] <Jymmm> Buenos Nachos and Tacos too!
[01:04:35] <alex_joni> yeah, that
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[01:05:36] <Jymmm> G'Night MrAlex
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[01:09:28] <ReadError_> Jymmm
[01:09:33] <ReadError_> i run freshclam
[01:09:35] <ReadError_> then this:
[01:10:15] <ReadError_> ./usr/bin/clamscan -r -i --log=/var/log/clamav/scan.log /path/to/scan
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[01:12:58] <Jymmm> ReadError_: Right, but standard nomenclature would be clamav - update, not a seperate update utility =)
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[01:14:18] <ReadError_> thats how they do i think
[01:14:27] <ReadError_> well atleast in the EPEL repo releases
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[01:24:46] <toast2> turns out, kevlar thread is really slippery and doesn't seem to hold knots well
[01:25:25] <Jymmm> toast2: what are you knotting it for?
[01:25:52] <Jymmm> usually used in weaved products that I've seen, then sewn in layers of soemthign else.
[01:26:05] <djdelorie> when I last used kevlar cord, for model rocketry, I made sure all the knots were inside the rocket and embedded in epoxy.
[01:26:25] <Jymmm> djdelorie: for the chute?
[01:26:28] <djdelorie> yup
[01:26:55] <Jymmm> that reminds me, I need to pick up some phenolic
[01:27:04] <ReadError_> hmmm
[01:27:09] <ReadError_> so visualmill is really nice
[01:27:11] <djdelorie> two strands, folded in the middle to make two loops, then the four ends were braided together to form a cord. The end of the cord was deep inside the rocket, leaving only a loop on the outside
[01:27:13] <Jymmm> Gawd that's gonna be expensive
[01:27:13] <ReadError_> i just need to learn it better
[01:27:17] <ReadError_> still my 1st day with it
[01:27:46] <djdelorie> not for the chute cords themselves, for the tether that the shock cord is connected to
[01:27:58] <Jymmm> between each stage?
[01:28:12] <djdelorie> kevlar - shock cord - chute cords - chute
[01:28:17] <Jymmm> k
[01:28:28] <djdelorie> with the nosecone or upper section in there somewhere ;-)
[01:28:50] <Jymmm> you hope =)
[01:29:29] <Jymmm> 3 2 1... clic...SON OF A BITCH! I knew I forgot something *SWISH*
[01:29:44] <Jymmm> too late now gomer!!!
[01:30:28] <djdelorie> http://www.delorie.com/photos/20041002-cmr814/IMG_3980.JPG
[01:30:59] <Jymmm> Yep, there be the *SWISH*
[01:31:23] <djdelorie> that's my biggest, 9 feet tall, three E9 engines
[01:31:23] <ReadError_> anyone here us a ps3 controller as a pendant?
[01:31:28] <ReadError_> i know alex4nder does
[01:31:32] <ReadError_> but anyone else?
[01:33:17] <Thetawaves> djdelorie, i'm surprised you don't make your own motors.
[01:33:44] <djdelorie> there's an excellent write-up in the rec.model.rockets FAQ about why that's a bad idea, written by a friend of mine.
[01:33:52] <Thetawaves> rocket candy is pretty benign, though not so powerful
[01:34:24] <Jymmm> I know where you can get some Potasium Nitrate if so inclined
[01:34:35] <djdelorie> http://www.ninfinger.org/rockets/rmrfaq.5.html#q18
[01:36:10] <Jymmm> djdelorie: Wuss!
[01:36:31] <djdelorie> a wuss with three 160 volt servo motors in his cnc machine :-)
[01:36:42] <Thetawaves> seems like that faq amounts to 'waaaa it's too hard'
[01:36:58] <djdelorie> read the last paragraph
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[01:39:34] <Thetawaves> most of it's lost on me, i'll be a hundred feet away from it
[01:39:53] <alex4nder> hey
[01:40:29] <ReadError_> hey alex4nder
[01:40:34] <Thetawaves> but i have worked quite a bit with rocket candy and it is ... weak stuff
[01:40:37] <Thetawaves> difficult to light
[01:40:42] <ReadError_> you use the ps3 controller with that qtsixa ?
[01:40:54] <alex4nder> no
[01:40:56] <ReadError_> it sees it, gets the #s and all
[01:41:01] <ReadError_> but i think its for BT only
[01:41:03] <alex4nder> I just use hal_input and X11's joystick
[01:41:14] <ReadError_> got a copy of you config?
[01:41:26] <alex4nder> back in the lab, but it's easy to setup
[01:41:30] <alex4nder> just man joystick
[01:41:33] <alex4nder> and look at the hal_input examples
[01:41:39] <alex4nder> also I'd suggest installing jstest-gtk
[01:42:47] * Thetawaves is one of those guys more interested in how the motor works than how the rocket flies
[01:43:43] <alex4nder> ReadError_: the only thing that's weird is: you need the hid-sony quirk to turn the PS3 controller 'on'
[01:46:57] <ReadError_> finally got some solid toolpaths alex4nder
[01:47:02] <ReadError_> visualmill ;)
[01:47:11] <alex4nder> what's their removal strategy?
[01:47:22] <ReadError_> very flexible
[01:47:24] * djdelorie enjoys the technical challenge of the build
[01:47:29] <alex4nder> ReadError_: but what is it?
[01:47:37] <ReadError_> i have no idea ;)
[01:47:48] <ReadError_> its got a bunch of different options
[01:47:53] <ReadError_> pocketing, profiling, drilling
[01:48:15] <alex4nder> yah, this is where the difference comes into play
[01:48:32] <alex4nder> let me know how it works out
[01:48:38] <alex4nder> if you remember, make some vidoes
[01:49:38] <ReadError_> of the cuts?
[01:49:57] <alex4nder> yup
[01:49:58] <ReadError_> the only thing i cant figure out, is when i home, then touchoff
[01:50:02] <ReadError_> my z is super high
[01:50:07] <ReadError_> but it will still run
[01:50:15] <ReadError_> im using g54
[01:50:29] <alex4nder> where does your CAM reference its zero? top of the material, or bottom?
[01:50:40] <ReadError_> i have it at the bottom
[01:50:52] <alex4nder> and you're touching off Z there?
[01:50:57] <ReadError_> if i have it at the top, it thinks its negative
[01:51:01] <ReadError_> and says nugusta
[01:51:19] <ReadError_> well, z from the top of the material
[01:51:23] <ReadError_> but
[01:51:26] <alex4nder> so what happens if you move Z to where it thinks 0 is, and then touch off with an offset of 0?
[01:51:29] <ReadError_> i have to account for thickness
[01:51:52] <alex4nder> your CAM software is accounting for thickness though, right?
[01:51:52] <ReadError_> well when i say its high, its like out of bounds high
[01:51:55] <ReadError_> yea
[01:51:59] <ReadError_> i set all that right
[01:52:05] <ReadError_> i just cant find where the offset is
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[01:53:15] <alex4nder> what I do is I home the mill, fixture the material, and then move the spindle to where I know exactly where it is in relationship to what I'm working on, and then touch off.
[01:53:19] <ReadError_> hmm actually
[01:53:25] <ReadError_> on this machine, its fine
[01:53:33] <ReadError_> i was running in vmware esxi for testing earlier
[01:53:38] <ReadError_> maybe i need to resync my configs
[01:54:04] <ReadError_> i also got all the vectric stuff
[01:54:15] <ReadError_> cut2d, cut3d, vcarve, the photo one
[01:57:50] <Solaris> Beddy byes for snoozey pies!!!
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[03:04:54] <toastydeath> do any of you guys do hand woodworking
[03:07:26] <djdelorie> define "hand"
[03:07:31] <ReadError_> is that some kind of innuendo ?
[03:07:32] <ReadError_> hehe
[03:07:40] <ReadError_> working wood with your hand...
[03:07:46] <toastydeath> jack planes, chisels, back saws
[03:07:47] * ReadError_ has been on the internet too long
[03:07:54] <toastydeath> hand powered tools
[03:07:57] <elmo40> by hand do you mean clamp it to a vice and press Start? ;)
[03:08:13] <djdelorie> I do a little, but usually as part of a larger power-tool project
[03:09:28] <toastydeath> i am looking at buying nothing but hand tools because it's all the room i've got
[03:09:43] <ReadError_> you need a bunk bed
[03:09:46] <jdhNC> all you need is a good knife.
[03:09:48] <ReadError_> more room for activities
[03:10:26] <ScribbleJ> toastydeath, how do you plug yourself into linuxcnc? I'm confused.
[03:10:43] <toastydeath> ?
[03:10:50] <Tom_itx> heh
[03:11:17] <elmo40> ScribbleJ: no plug required. Bluetooth all the way! ;)
[03:11:42] <Tom_itx> good set of chisels and a mallet
[03:12:06] <djdelorie> and a ryoba
[03:12:07] <ScribbleJ> elmo40, if you have a bluetooth you might want to see a dentist.
[03:12:19] <ReadError_> so yall
[03:12:27] <ReadError_> i ordered a d525
[03:12:31] <ReadError_> should be here tomorrow
[03:12:43] <ReadError_> if it sucks, ill turn it into a media pc or something and get the one alex4nder has
[03:13:16] <elmo40> ReadError_: what does alex4nder have?
[03:13:17] <jdhNC> I have an intel d525
[03:13:28] <ReadError_> 4700 something i think
[03:13:32] <ReadError_> i dont have it on this pc here
[03:13:39] <ReadError_> jdhNC, does it suck?
[03:13:49] <jdhNC> nope, great. small, cheap, low latency
[03:13:56] <Tom_itx> it's a good board for linuxcnc
[03:13:57] <ReadError_> what do you get ?
[03:13:59] <Tom_itx> i have one
[03:14:08] <ReadError_> turns out, perfect timing
[03:14:17] <ReadError_> just put 16gb ddr3 in my macbook
[03:14:24] <ReadError_> so i have some dimms for it ;)
[03:14:42] <jdhNC> I only put 2gb in mine, seems fine.
[03:14:55] <Tom_itx> i filled mine, whatever it would hold
[03:14:58] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/intel_atom/atom_index.php
[03:15:14] <Tom_itx> newegg is your friend
[03:15:18] <ReadError_> i think 4gb is the limit
[03:15:25] <ReadError_> i got an amazon gift card from work
[03:15:28] <ReadError_> so i used it
[03:15:35] <ReadError_> plus, amazon prime i got overnight for 3.99
[03:15:39] <jdhNC> I bought mine with an amazon gift card from work
[03:16:12] <ReadError_> ;o
[03:16:14] <ReadError_> lol
[03:16:22] <ReadError_> what kind of latency yall getting?
[03:16:28] <ReadError_> alex4nder was getting 7k with his
[03:16:31] <ReadError_> or something super low
[03:16:40] <Tom_itx> sounds about right
[03:16:58] <jdhNC> I can get mine up higher with IO
[03:17:14] <jdhNC> but, I don't and I'm using a mesa so I don't really care.
[03:17:27] <Tom_itx> same here
[03:17:30] <jdhNC> what size wire do people use for steppers
[03:17:56] <Tom_itx> i'm not sure what i had
[03:18:22] <ReadError_> oh you get about 7k also?
[03:18:36] <Tom_itx> gawd i gotta reset my router...
[03:18:37] <jdhNC> 5k just sitting there
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[04:45:22] <joe9> is an intel atom cpu the recommended cpu for linux cnc?
[04:45:38] <joe9> or, is there something better/cheaper?
[04:45:48] <Thetawaves> cheaper than an atom?
[04:45:52] <joe9> i have an amd one, but that has latency issues once in a while.
[04:46:05] <Thetawaves> yeah thats bad
[04:46:13] <joe9> and a celeron cpu that gives overruns within a few mins of starting the latency test.
[04:46:43] <joe9> i am not sure if I can. but, it would be cool if the intel atom cpu is compatible with the celeron.
[04:46:48] <joe9> will have to check.
[04:47:03] <joe9> Thetawaves: do you recommend the intel atom?
[04:47:13] <joe9> i have never used it. but, I have heard it mentioned here before.
[04:47:19] <Thetawaves> i have one, works fantastic
[04:47:32] <joe9> ok, cool. will get that. thanks for the advice.
[04:47:45] <Thetawaves> maximum latency is about 7us
[04:48:44] <Thetawaves> i have Atom 330 2x
[04:50:58] <joe9> do you remember the cpu socket?
[04:51:14] <joe9> i think atom uses socket 441
[04:51:15] <Thetawaves> no
[04:51:17] <joe9> from wiki.
[04:51:35] <joe9> for the celeron, I think the pentium uses the same socket.
[04:52:01] <joe9> will have to check if I can just get a pentium cpu, vs buying a motherboard + atom cpu.
[04:52:40] <joe9> Thetawaves: any experiences with Pentium or Pentium D cpu's?
[04:52:42] <Thetawaves> it cost me 180 for the whole computer
[04:52:52] <Thetawaves> nope
[04:57:36] <joe9> Thetawaves: oh, really. 180 is not that expensive, compared with how much the other parts of the mill cost.
[04:58:18] <Thetawaves> exactly
[04:58:38] <Thetawaves> and i got 2 gigs of ram in that machine
[04:58:42] <Thetawaves> WAY more than it needs
[05:01:06] <joe9> Thetawaves: where did you buy that pc?
[05:01:34] <joe9> Thetawaves: with the atom pc, do you ever get the message about latency while using linuxcnc?
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[06:49:02] <DJ9DJ> moin
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[07:26:50] <Tectu> hello DJ9DJ
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[07:47:51] <alex4nder> yoh
[07:50:24] <alex4nder> ReadError_: the greatest jitter I saw with my N2800 was 5.4 uS
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[10:40:32] <r00t4rd3d> wood
[10:54:42] <micges> metal
[10:55:23] <awallin> plastic fantastic
[10:56:51] <jthornton> titanium
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[11:17:12] <alex_joni> tungsten
[11:21:27] <jthornton> Illudium PU-36
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[11:34:50] <alex_joni> at least it's not kryptonite
[11:44:11] <Loetmichel> unobtanium :)
[11:52:56] <A1Sheds> hmmm, the A/D boards by Mesa are all PC104, anyone have suggestions for A/D cards or USB dongles with EMC support?
[11:53:55] <awallin> A1Sheds: what do you want A/D for? The mesa digital IO can be used (e.g. pulse-widht, pulse-rate) if you don't need that accurate AD
[11:55:32] <A1Sheds> awallin: are there low cost A/D modules with PWM/freq output?
[11:55:52] <A1Sheds> I can build them, but I'm trying to avoid that
[11:56:05] <awallin> A1Sheds: not sure.. I looked at a current-sensing (A/D over shunt resistor) chip from IRF once..
[11:56:51] <A1Sheds> I'm using them to measure temperature and pressure on a machine
[11:57:20] <A1Sheds> 16bits would be nice
[11:57:30] <awallin> or maybe someone wrote an I2C driver for mesa/fpga ?
[11:58:13] <jthornton> doesn't skunkworks use an arduino to measre temperature on the K&T?
[11:58:16] <micges> awallin: for what devices?
[11:58:55] <awallin> micges: I was thinking you could use cheap sensor-chips with an I2C interface and hook them up to custom mesa firmware+dirver. maybe.
[11:59:03] <A1Sheds> there is some arduino support over USB
[11:59:31] <micges> awallin: interesting
[11:59:37] <A1Sheds> that might be the avenue to expand since the A/D is not real time
[12:01:17] <A1Sheds> http://ckcnc.wordpress.com/2010/11/20/arduino-emc-integration-how-it-works/
[12:02:12] <A1Sheds> http://reprap.org/wiki/EMC_Arduino
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[12:19:18] <alex_joni> micges: I guess there are SPI A/D chips which could be made to work with mesa SPI?
[12:20:32] <micges> I think it's possible
[12:21:03] <A1Sheds> using what SPI card?
[12:21:03] <micges> but Andy is expert of mesa spi
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[12:24:24] <alex_joni> A1Sheds: a new one
[12:24:38] <A1Sheds> 7i46 or ?
[12:25:05] <A1Sheds> 7i50
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[12:25:24] <alex_joni> A1Sheds: the only AD card I know from mesa is teh THCAD (for plasma THC)
[12:25:51] <Jymmm> !!! THC !!!
[12:26:32] <alex_joni> it should probably work even with a 5i25
[12:26:45] <A1Sheds> I'd like to expand LinuxCNC to control machines that are not tools, things like extruders and injection molding etc
[12:26:52] <alex_joni> A1Sheds: but wait for andypugh or pcw (from mesa)
[12:26:57] <jthornton> it does work with a 5i25/7i76
[12:27:10] <alex_joni> or just drop a link to the devel list, or directly to mesa
[12:27:47] <A1Sheds> he mentioned voltage to freq and using the PWM inputs
[12:28:02] <A1Sheds> but we need AD over SPI or USB
[12:28:26] <Jymmm> O_o
[12:29:13] <alex_joni> the THCAD does frequency to voltage conv.
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[12:29:26] <alex_joni> 10bits @ 1kHz
[12:29:35] <Jymmm> alex_joni: over SPI/USB?
[12:29:46] <A1Sheds> I'm trying to find it at the Mesa site
[12:30:01] <alex_joni> http://www.mesanet.com/aiodaughter.html
[12:30:03] <alex_joni> last one
[12:40:13] <A1Sheds> only 1 channel of A/D
[12:40:49] <A1Sheds> might be handy for it's intended applications
[12:41:17] <A1Sheds> I'd need 8 -16 for an extruder
[12:42:19] <A1Sheds> there might be 6-8 heat zones in a barrel
[12:43:28] <A1Sheds> i have to check on the SPI drivers
[12:44:11] <A1Sheds> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?SPI_Sub-Driver_For_Hostmot2
[12:58:11] <jthornton> the 1" x 24" long extruder's I had only had 2 zones on the barrel and a few more down the piping, might have been better with 3 zones
[12:59:55] <jthornton> would have been much better if I knew about drying hoppers back then...
[13:00:11] <A1Sheds> moisture issues?
[13:00:38] <A1Sheds> I saw a video of somebody trying to extrude a very wet resin
[13:00:57] <A1Sheds> came out of the nozzle like foam
[13:01:09] <A1Sheds> steam bubbles
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[13:08:00] <A1Sheds> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tqogj3CQXI8 you can see that you just don't measure the temp in the barrel zones, but also in an external heat exchanger
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[13:14:22] <Jymmm> spi? usb? AD/ linuxcnc all for an extruder???? Bah, aint nuttin more than a hot melt glue gun and a play doh fun factory http://yummymummyno1.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/hpim0288.jpg
[13:14:58] <Jymmm> evena kid could do it!
[13:15:05] <Jymmm> ages 3+
[13:15:35] <A1Sheds> yeah, that's it, only more expensive
[13:15:54] <A1Sheds> nothing gets past you Jymmm :)
[13:16:05] <Jymmm> if ya paid more than $12, you got ripped off
[13:16:47] <A1Sheds> I wish that all products came with info in 12 languages
[13:16:56] <Jymmm> A1Sheds: you have both extruder and mold injection?
[13:17:12] <A1Sheds> Jymmm: we build custom machines
[13:17:25] <A1Sheds> lab protos etc
[13:17:43] <Jymmm> so not operate them or make dies?
[13:17:58] <A1Sheds> we can make dies
[13:18:26] <A1Sheds> we only run them to test either the new type of machine or the new type of plastic
[13:18:32] <Jymmm> thermoset or aluminum extrustion
[13:19:08] <A1Sheds> either + thermoplastics and elastomers
[13:19:38] <A1Sheds> we mostly work on new materials
[13:20:31] <Jymmm> what is the biggest bitch with a dies profile?
[13:20:44] <Jymmm> thick walls?
[13:21:21] <A1Sheds> bad designs
[13:21:35] <Jymmm> but what makes it a bad design?
[13:22:08] <A1Sheds> mostly thin walls over too long a distance
[13:22:32] <A1Sheds> you can machine about anything but will it actually work in production
[13:22:39] <Jymmm> and what does that do?
[13:22:43] <JT-Shop> A1Sheds: yea mosture issues with the plastic as we only had 110% humidity in New Orleans all the time almost
[13:23:22] <JT-Shop> cold cut was the worst as it was talc filled and would suck up the water
[13:34:53] <A1Sheds> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wE_KTLlrdMA&feature=related @1:10 you can see a typical old school control panel with 10 heat controllers
[13:36:40] <JT-Shop> this is similar to what we had http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtyHFKE_Y2k
[13:37:46] <JT-Shop> but ours were of a much simpler design
[13:38:19] <A1Sheds> never saw a feed rate in NPM (nails per minute)
[13:39:02] <JT-Shop> this is the whole process http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUTTmtLKD2g
[13:40:02] <JT-Shop> we had a whole row of the purple machines that made nails
[13:40:10] <A1Sheds> so they arent forged :)
[13:40:29] <JT-Shop> cold headed
[13:41:29] <A1Sheds> @1:50 slow mo of the cut
[13:41:33] <Jymmm> A1Sheds: you have any suggestion on thermo sealing paper thin walled PP tubing?
[13:41:59] <A1Sheds> what dia tube?
[13:42:04] <Jymmm> 1/2"
[13:42:30] <A1Sheds> sealed like a polybag?
[13:42:50] <Jymmm> Like a toothpaste tube (crimp) maybe.
[13:43:01] <Jymmm> maybe no crimp if it's a pita
[13:43:23] <Jymmm> and maybe two sheets of paper thin walls =)
[13:43:26] <A1Sheds> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHTcEq6_W74
[13:44:11] <A1Sheds> polybags are often thin wall PP film
[13:44:20] <Jymmm> I tried a 400W impulse sealer like 8x, didn't even do anything
[13:44:21] <A1Sheds> few mills
[13:44:53] <Jymmm> .7mm wall thickness (about)
[13:45:00] <A1Sheds> what rate? tubes per minute etc
[13:45:41] <Jymmm> I'd like 1 every 3-5 seconds, but I'm open
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[13:47:16] <A1Sheds> more power for that thickness
[13:48:09] <Jymmm> ok. Right now I'm using needle nose pliers and a candle to seal the ends
[13:48:24] <A1Sheds> sounds good
[13:48:42] <Jymmm> panfully slow
[13:48:47] <Jymmm> painfully
[13:48:51] <A1Sheds> i hope it's a natural paraffin candle
[13:49:12] <Jymmm> why's that?
[13:49:21] <A1Sheds> jk
[13:49:34] <A1Sheds> have you looked for used bag sealers?
[13:49:35] <Jymmm> oh, heh. Just beats a lighter is all =)
[13:49:54] <Jymmm> Impulse sealer, yep. dont work
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[13:50:39] <Jymmm> tried 5x @ 8seconds on the timer. didn't even mark it
[13:50:48] <A1Sheds> you are at 0.7mm
[13:51:15] <A1Sheds> most small bag sealers are for 1/4 that
[13:51:17] <Jymmm> about that, 1.2mm for both walls squished flat
[13:51:30] <A1Sheds> and you are at 0.7mm x 2
[13:51:41] <Jymmm> but the impulse sealer only had heater on one side, not both
[13:52:03] <A1Sheds> try a larger unit with heat on both sides
[13:52:11] <A1Sheds> or at least a larger unit
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[13:52:28] <A1Sheds> how wide was it?
[13:52:43] <Jymmm> There's only one (retail) that I found and it's a 6" wide hand held crimp sealer.
[13:53:12] <Jymmm> the impulse sealer I tried was 8" @ 400W, so about 30W/in
[13:54:16] <A1Sheds> was there a thermostat you could set?
[13:54:34] <Jymmm> Timer 1-8 seconds
[13:55:07] <A1Sheds> and 8 seconds wasn't long enough? if so then it just wasn't getting hot enough
[13:55:45] <Jymmm> I have about 100K of various diameter NiChrome wire (no strip), so I might try making something
[13:55:59] <Jymmm> 100k ft
[13:56:00] <A1Sheds> that should work
[13:56:32] <Jymmm> Yeah, just need to get some teflon fabric and maybe phenolic ($$$$$)
[13:56:46] <A1Sheds> teflon coating
[13:56:57] <A1Sheds> cut a bake pan
[13:57:18] <Jymmm> No, actual teflon fabric
[13:57:44] <Jymmm> non stick + electrical insulator
[13:57:50] <A1Sheds> you don't want the teflon too thick so it acts as an insulator
[13:57:53] <Jymmm> like used on the impuls sealers
[13:58:36] <A1Sheds> sounds like you'll make it work
[13:59:50] <Jymmm> http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-1-roll-PTFE-Teflon-Adhesive-Tape-Nonstick-0-13mmx15mmx10m-/120846064363?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c22fc9aeb
[14:00:05] <Jymmm> that goes below the heating element
[14:00:43] <Jymmm> this goes above http://www.ebay.com/itm/PTFE-Teflon-1-1-4-Wide-x-36-yd-long-x-5-MIL-Thick-Roll-Heat-Seal-Fabric-Cloth-/280869045975?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item41651986d7
[14:01:47] <Jymmm> as shown here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JV5RXz9Nf4
[14:01:50] <A1Sheds> electric range or hotplate heat elements
[14:02:06] <Jymmm> oh no, too thick
[14:03:39] <A1Sheds> I'm looking for hoppers'r'us
[14:03:53] <Jymmm> I just wish I could find the silicon strip, it's about 1/8"
[14:03:57] <A1Sheds> 10 gal spun or welded hoppers
[14:04:00] <Jymmm> to feed pellets?
[14:04:04] <A1Sheds> yes
[14:04:23] <A1Sheds> somebody must just make hoppers
[14:04:35] <Jymmm> old wine vats?
[14:04:40] <A1Sheds> silicon strip, what dimmensions?
[14:05:03] <Jymmm> 1/2" wide x 1/8" thick
[14:05:43] <Jymmm> it's used as an anvil on the impulse sealer upper arm
[14:06:28] <A1Sheds> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Silicone-Rubber-Sheets-6-5x6-5x-125-/200710627543?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2ebb4920d7
[14:07:23] <A1Sheds> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Silicone-Rubber-Silicon-FDA-Black-Mat-Sheet-3mm-Thick-X-170mm-X-200mm-Brand-New-/320882911689?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item4ab61ca9c9
[14:07:59] <Jymmm> thanks
[14:08:08] <A1Sheds> http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Silicone-Rubber-Sheet-1-8-x-12-x-12-Smooth-ZZ-R-765-Grd-70-5330006302348-/120888422651?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c2582f0fb
[14:08:19] <A1Sheds> assuming you can cut it to size :)
[14:09:05] <A1Sheds> Jymmm: how did the laser cutter air filter work out?
[14:09:16] <Jymmm> Got razor blade, but I'm wondering why none of them are the "clear" silicon
[14:09:27] <A1Sheds> or mold it yourself
[14:10:09] <A1Sheds> laser cut a strip out of some sheet as a mold
[14:11:55] <Jymmm> the air scrubber? Initially I want the blower IN the same enclosure, but that didn't work out as the desinty of the pellets was too much. I've since pulled the blower out and haven't had a chance to redesign the innerards to accomidate the less denstiy of pellets into thinner layers.
[14:12:43] <Jymmm> you would never think pellets could affect airflow as much as they did
[14:12:51] <A1Sheds> the #1 complaint from laser cutter users indoors
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[14:13:33] <Jymmm> heh, the pellets DO work that's for sure.
[14:14:42] <Jymmm> MY issue is I designed it for one thing, and having to dramatically make changes to have thinner layers
[14:15:02] <Jymmm> in a VERY tight physical area
[14:16:25] <Jymmm> so I've been exhausting to outdoors =)
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[14:28:39] <A1Sheds> Mesa 6I25, is that the new one?
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[14:29:24] <micges> A1Sheds: yes
[14:29:40] <A1Sheds> micges, did you recall the price?
[14:29:45] <A1Sheds> <$100?
[14:30:14] <micges> it should be very simmilar to 5i25
[14:30:19] <A1Sheds> i knew he was working on a lower cost PCIe card
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[14:53:30] <ctjctj> I just spent way to much time trying to get the bed of my cnc router to match the axis. Turns out that I have about 50/1000 of a tilt over 15 inches that I can't adjust out. I was hoping that there as a rotate coordinate system to fix this. G68 doesn't seem to be there and G10 L2 only does xy rotations...
[14:54:54] <cradek> there's not a gcode that will fix that
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[15:06:05] <skunkworks> kins would probably do it but it seems like fixing the hardware would be better...
[15:06:29] <cradek> no software solution can make your spindle perpendicular on that machine
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[15:08:12] <alex4nder> hey
[15:09:02] <skunkworks> cradek: unless the axis can move in 2 rotory directions... ;)
[15:09:11] <skunkworks> *spindle
[15:10:00] <skunkworks> cradek: http://electronicsam.com/images/SawMill.JPG
[15:10:29] <cradek> that is a big band saw
[15:11:31] <skunkworks> dad and his brothers built that in the early 80's
[15:11:48] <cradek> cool
[15:12:12] <skunkworks> now - instead of a pinto 4cyl engine - it has a nice 20hp 3 phase motor.
[15:12:57] <skunkworks> We are actually thinking of cnc-ing it. 2 axis + spindle. (could be done with hal and a bit of glade for the most part I think)
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[15:29:33] <Tom_itx> bet it's fun when that blade breaks
[15:30:23] <skunkworks> eh - it has saftey switches that shut stuff down. Also has a wire that gets cut if the blade starts moving off the wheels.
[15:30:38] <skunkworks> just goes BANG
[15:30:46] <djdelorie> "sproingle bangle fwap fwap fwap fwap"
[15:31:54] <skunkworks> something link that.. I don't know if I remember being around when a blade broke.
[15:45:07] <ctjctj> cradek: I can make the spindle perpendicular to the table. I've got enough adjustment for tilting the spindle. It is making the XY cutting plane parallel to the table. So it looks like I'll need to adjust the table some way. So much fun.
[15:45:36] <Tom_itx> djdelorie, that sounds more like another foiled attempt of coyote trying to catch the road runner
[15:45:44] <ctjctj> And once this is done it is time to remake the darn machine so that does have enough adjustment to get it right.
[15:45:51] <djdelorie> some of my own failures have felt that way
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[15:50:37] <archivist> ctjctj, use the spindle to cut the table to make it flat
[15:50:59] <ctjctj> Yeah, I'm about to that stage. :-(
[15:51:34] <archivist> not a bad thing, as it makes it accurate
[15:52:39] <ctjctj> I have shitty power to the garage where cnc is. Which means that cutting pine is not much of a problem but cutting the MDF requires me to stand there with the dust collector for an hour or two while things cut. (Power means that I can't trust the drivers)
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[16:00:43] <archivist> ctjctj, you can use a fly cutter to get outside your normal cutting area
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[16:12:56] <ctjctj> *nods*
[16:16:02] <ctjctj> something like these: http://www.grizzly.com/products/Fly-Cutter-Set-w-Tool-Bits-1-2-/H5935
[16:16:46] <archivist> yes, but I sometimes make my own
[16:17:06] <ctjctj> How do you make your own?
[16:18:10] <Tom_itx> http://homepage3.nifty.com/amigos/flycutter/flycutter-e.htm
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[16:19:02] <archivist> ctjctj, one for thread cutting http://www.archivist.info/cnc/stage6/p1010245.jpg
[16:19:55] <ctjctj> Out of my league right now. :( No mill, no lathe. Just the CNC router
[16:21:15] <archivist> if you can make the arbour from round bar all the other operations are drilling and tapping
[16:21:52] <archivist> I have used a drill as a lathe many years ago, terrible finish though
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[16:22:30] <ScribbleJ> http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:7868
[16:22:46] <ctjctj> *nods* Ok. Can handle that on the drill press. But for the time and cost to get to the fly cutter and then I have to deal with what is causing any issues as a flatten my table. Cheaper, easier, faster to buy the set I think.
[16:22:51] <ScribbleJ> http://staff.bath.ac.uk/ensab/replicator/Downloads/Afghan_lathe/Afghan_Lathe.html Sorry, guess that is a better link.
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[16:34:21] <Connor> What is a good diameter for a fly cutter?
[16:34:55] <roycroft> big enough to do the work you need to do and small enough that your mill can handle it :)
[16:35:27] <Connor> Well.. I guess the question is.. what's the best fit for my mill then.. :)
[16:38:38] <andypugh> What sort of mill/
[16:38:40] <andypugh> ?
[16:38:47] <Connor> G0704
[16:39:19] <Connor> I think BF20 style/size over the pond..
[16:39:23] <andypugh> plastic gears?
[16:39:44] <Connor> I think it does have some yes... I plan to upgrade to belt drive at some point.
[16:40:02] <andypugh> Well, if you get a flycutter you will be upgrading sooner than you think.
[16:40:16] <Connor> Eh?
[16:40:27] <roycroft> i don't use fly cutters, personally
[16:40:47] <roycroft> i have a 3" carbide insert face cutter on my x3 and it works fine
[16:41:05] <roycroft> i don't go hogging 0.050" at at time with it
[16:41:08] <roycroft> at a
[16:41:12] <andypugh> flycutters cut very intermittently, and bang the same tooth every rev. Then it falls off.
[16:41:45] <roycroft> if you have a small mill you need to keep your feeds and speeds correct, but take light cuts
[16:41:45] <andypugh> Using a flycutter is why mine now has metal gears in the head.
[16:41:52] <djdelorie> I own a fly cutter. For my lathe. I'm not sure what the point is.
[16:42:10] <andypugh> And if I had known then what I know now, I wouldn't have done that either, as it is far too loud for comfort.
[16:42:53] <andypugh> It does depend how many flies you want to cut, and how big they are. Mosquitos are probably OK on a Mini-Mill, bluebottles probably not :-)
[16:43:47] <roycroft> bug zappers are more fun
[16:43:58] <roycroft> they're only noisy for a brief moment, when you know the thing is working
[16:44:08] <roycroft> you need good ventilation with a bug zapper, though
[16:45:04] <Connor> Mosquitos, bluebottles ??
[16:45:44] <andypugh> I was being whimsical, sorry.
[16:46:52] <andypugh> If your mill has plastic gears in the head, then I wouldn't use a flycutter. I did, and it broke.
[16:47:08] <andypugh> If the main gears in the head are metal, then it's probably fine.
[16:48:09] <andypugh> It does look like yours is a bigger, better machine than mine, so it might not apply.
[16:48:35] <Connor> Does it matter what your cutting with your statement? I primarily cut aluminum.
[16:49:29] <andypugh> Not really, the problem is that the gears unload while the cutter is cutting air, then bang together when the cutting tip enters the work.
[16:49:52] <andypugh> It's no problem at all with a vee-belt drive.
[16:57:18] <archivist> if the cut is light enough any mill should handle it
[16:57:37] <archivist> with the emphasis on light cut
[16:58:48] <roycroft> which is what i've been saying
[16:58:51] <archivist> and be careful about balance
[16:59:21] <roycroft> the only caveat being if it's a really large fly cutter you need to know if your mill can turn slowly enough to get the right speed
[16:59:55] <roycroft> if your lowest speed is 200rpm you might have trouble with a big fly cutter
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[17:01:13] <archivist> routers are a "bit" too fast, will wear out the cutter(surface speed too high) and router bearings (balance)
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[17:24:11] <cradek> even if you can tilt the spindle so it's perpendicular to the table, Z motion won't be
[17:25:12] <joe9> anyone have any luck with using a PIII for linuxcnc pc?
[17:25:48] <cradek> yeah they work fine, but sometimes it's hard to find ram (usually PC133) for them now
[17:26:02] <cradek> I used a dual PIII-1000 for a long time
[17:26:17] <cradek> I replaced it with a P4 which seems no faster
[17:27:53] <joe9> cradek: is PIII better than a celeron for latency purposes? I tried a celeron and it has latency spikes once a minute or so.
[17:28:10] <joe9> the celeron is not good enough for linuxcnc, atleast the one that I had.
[17:28:23] <cradek> celerons aren't good enough for anything
[17:28:26] <joe9> i am about to try with a PIII.
[17:28:54] <cradek> how much ram do you have for it?
[17:31:39] <Tom_itx> hah!
[17:31:57] <cradek> ?
[17:32:19] <Tom_itx> good for nothing
[17:32:57] <archivist> I use a P4 on one machine and an AMD 800 meg on the other
[17:33:03] <Loetmichel> joe9: the spikes are not the cpu
[17:33:16] <Loetmichel> thats a Fu** in the bios of the mainboard
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[17:33:28] <Loetmichel> maybe poersafe-features
[17:33:34] <Loetmichel> most of the time
[17:33:35] <joe9> Loetmichel: oh, really.
[17:33:37] <cradek> the celerons were the crippled processors of the era
[17:33:46] <joe9> Loetmichel: good to know. thanks.
[17:34:06] <archivist> vegetable processor
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[17:35:20] <Loetmichel> joe9: at least in fixed intervals repeating spikes in an otherwise capable system are normally issues with the bios
[17:35:44] <Loetmichel> NMI for powersafe or onboard-drivers badly programmed
[17:36:26] <Loetmichel> Notebooks are prone to do that, for obvious reasons (battery management and so on)
[17:36:31] <Loetmichel> especially IBM
[17:36:54] <Loetmichel> and thats the ereason why a notebook isnd THAT goog for LinuxCNC
[17:37:13] <Loetmichel> good
[17:37:14] <joe9> i am trying with a PIII http://codepad.org/vGNJKrvG now. let me see how it works.
[17:37:23] <joe9> an old machine that I had lying around.
[17:37:39] <Loetmichel> my new CPU for linuxCNC is a c2d ;-)
[17:37:49] <joe9> what is a "c2d"?
[17:37:54] <Loetmichel> core 2 duo
[17:38:01] <Loetmichel> 2.8 or 3ghz
[17:38:09] <Loetmichel> (dont remember)
[17:38:34] <joe9> i noticed that the cpu speed does not seem to be the issue. the issue seems mostly to do with some power management features or bad drivers.
[17:38:46] <joe9> or something else.
[17:38:49] <Loetmichel> joe9: more or less right
[17:39:16] <Loetmichel> but the cpu has to have a minimum power ;-)
[17:39:17] <joe9> i am hoping that with a PIII, I avoid the corner cases faced by the celeron and Amd.
[17:39:40] <Loetmichel> hmmm
[17:39:56] <Loetmichel> the new machine i am building for a co-worker has a p4 inside
[17:40:05] <Loetmichel> 3ghz
[17:40:31] <Loetmichel> but there is the non-existent-3d-power of the onboard graphics chip the issue i think
[17:42:00] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=13089&g2_imageViewsIndex=1 <- sufficient, but could be better ;-)
[17:43:24] <joe9> Loetmichel: how much did the p4 cost? I might just use the p4 with the celeron socket.
[17:43:38] <Loetmichel> joe9: 0.0
[17:43:45] <Loetmichel> got it from the company
[17:43:51] <joe9> the socket seems to be the same for both.
[17:43:51] <Loetmichel> boss made a donation ;-)
[17:44:07] <Loetmichel> 'cause its the only board that tifs in the Machine base
[17:44:10] <ReadError_> i got a d525 board coming today
[17:44:16] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=13113&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
[17:44:21] <Loetmichel> ... like a glove
[17:44:22] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[17:44:47] <Loetmichel> itrs an industrial SBC
[17:44:58] <Loetmichel> with a passive backplane
[17:45:33] <Loetmichel> and the cpu/PSU fans are making a hell of a noise ;-)
[17:46:23] <joe9> is the machine i tried with: http://reviews.cnet.com/desktops/compaq-presario-sr1110nx-celeron/1707-3118_7-31153489.html
[17:46:36] <Loetmichel> the PSU has 2 fans 40*40*25mm @ 6000 rpm...
[17:46:43] <Loetmichel> its like a starting F16 ;-)
[17:48:00] <Loetmichel> joe9: should be sufficient
[17:48:06] <Loetmichel> even as a celeron
[17:48:19] <Loetmichel> maybe not the best board fopr that.
[17:48:32] <Loetmichel> have you tried a dedicated graphics card?
[17:48:44] <Loetmichel> with an nvidia chipset?
[17:49:09] <joe9> it is not the graphics card. it was head-less.
[17:49:27] <joe9> could be the bios settings, though.
[17:49:49] <Loetmichel> joe9: you know that linuxCNC NEEDS basic 3d capabilities?
[17:50:00] <Loetmichel> for the axis display?
[17:50:27] <archivist> running it remote probably
[17:51:04] <Loetmichel> hmmm
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[17:51:59] <joe9> Loetmichel: yes, running it remotely.
[17:52:12] <ReadError_> oh wow
[17:52:13] <ReadError_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RT-1DU33xIk
[17:52:20] <ReadError_> very well done parody there
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[17:53:22] <Loetmichel> joe9: as in rdp/vnc/x11 forwarding? or as in hal and servo thread on the celeron and axis and x11 on another machine?
[17:53:53] <joe9> yes.
[17:54:11] <Loetmichel> which one?
[17:54:39] * Loetmichel does vnc on the CNC sometimes...
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[17:54:56] <IchGuckLive> hi all
[17:55:03] <Loetmichel> but i wouldnt reccomend that below a dualcore wth at least 2,5ghz ;-
[17:55:05] <Loetmichel> )
[17:55:08] <IchGuckLive> thunderstorm just left B)
[17:55:27] <joe9> Loetmichel: just the X11 on the remote machine.
[17:55:29] <IchGuckLive> joe9: ?
[17:55:31] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=13060
[17:55:33] <Loetmichel> ah
[17:55:35] <Loetmichel> ok
[17:55:37] <joe9> ssh with X11 forwarding.
[17:55:38] <IchGuckLive> ah
[17:55:50] <Loetmichel> vnc is a bit slow ;-)
[17:55:53] <IchGuckLive> joe9: did it work
[17:56:21] <joe9> IchGuckLive: i am still trying to get heekscad to work.
[17:56:28] <ReadError_> why does linuxcncsrv listen on TCP 5005 ?
[17:56:29] <joe9> it needs opencascade.
[17:56:36] <IchGuckLive> where is the error opencamlib ?
[17:57:08] <IchGuckLive> joe9: dident you got a windows system 2
[17:57:25] <joe9> no.
[17:57:29] <IchGuckLive> or wouddt you stay with cruz for the mill at all
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[18:00:30] <IchGuckLive> joe9: ?
[18:00:56] <joe9> i am installing opencascade now. I think it will work with crux. i was distracted by something else till now.
[18:01:04] <IchGuckLive> is the pc or notbook only for the milling or otherwise in use 2
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[18:01:07] <joe9> IchGuckLive: opencascade install is going fen now.
[18:01:24] <joe9> IchGuckLive: only for milling. it is a pc
[18:01:24] <IchGuckLive> ok
[18:01:49] <IchGuckLive> so i dont understand why you not with us on the ubuntu 10.04
[18:02:21] <joe9> with ubuntu, I had latency issues.
[18:02:31] <joe9> cd, I meant.
[18:02:33] <IchGuckLive> SMI
[18:02:41] <joe9> maybe.
[18:03:02] <IchGuckLive> everything can be solved when you listen to us
[18:03:23] <IchGuckLive> ok then we will see after opencascade is installed
[18:03:29] <JT-Shop> just walk toward the light...
[18:03:45] <IchGuckLive> JT-Shop: its dark
[18:04:04] <IchGuckLive> pcw is not with us for days
[18:08:06] <ReadError_> any of yall use VisualMill?
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[18:09:37] <IchGuckLive> the Freemill Visual Yes
[18:09:47] <IchGuckLive> its basicly the same
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[18:11:09] <ReadError_> well
[18:11:14] <ReadError_> for some reason
[18:11:24] <ReadError_> its putting the entry point below the work surface
[18:11:31] <ReadError_> everything else is flawless though
[18:12:12] <andypugh> joe9: A spike every minute (especially evry 64 seconds) might well be SMI. There is a (non-zero risk) fix for that. http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?FixingSMIIssues
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[18:12:48] <IchGuckLive> ReadError_: http://mechmo.de/lothar/mount_m.png
[18:12:51] <joe9> andypugh: thanks. will check it out.
[18:13:55] <joe9> andypugh: that looks extremely similar to what i noticed. thanks.
[18:14:44] <IchGuckLive> ReadError_: witch post did you use
[18:15:38] <IchGuckLive> andypugh: my 26 IBM A50 did manage to get below 10000 with that
[18:15:54] <ReadError_> IchGuckLive: I found one for EMC2
[18:16:07] <IchGuckLive> use Fanuc F11
[18:16:26] <IchGuckLive> this will give you a very good resault
[18:17:00] <IchGuckLive> in freemill its the 11m
[18:17:20] <ReadError_> i cant see where in the gcode its going down below the work surface
[18:17:22] <ReadError_> very strange
[18:17:55] <ReadError_> hmm that does it correctly actually
[18:18:03] <ReadError_> but its missing my drill routine
[18:18:03] <IchGuckLive> did you set the zero to the negativ from the part block
[18:18:26] <andypugh> IchGuckLive: You would need a bigger mill.
[18:19:13] <IchGuckLive> the mill is actuly 5m in x 2m in y and 1,5m in z with a 0.3 acuracy
[18:19:37] <ReadError_> VisualMill is very nice otherwise..
[18:19:56] <IchGuckLive> foam negatices or positives with 200 stepwidth
[18:21:16] <IchGuckLive> ReadError_: on that why arend you using heekscad for this it also gets here some good resaults
[18:21:51] <IchGuckLive> ReadError_: i expect the part showing is the reaseon
[18:22:18] <IchGuckLive> joe9: hows it going on opencascade
[18:22:28] <andypugh> Yes, and Mt Rushmore is 18m in Z, 30m in x….
[18:22:52] <IchGuckLive> B) O.O
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[18:23:11] <IchGuckLive> i think then i wil stay with grazy horse
[18:24:37] <A1Sheds> andypugh, whats the status on http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?SPI_Sub-Driver_For_Hostmot2
[18:24:40] <ktchk> Hi did anyone built heekscnc under ubuntu 12.04 lts?
[18:24:48] <IchGuckLive> mount Rushmore i think is in the standart of heekscad includet
[18:24:51] <A1Sheds> is thee a new framework?
[18:25:10] <A1Sheds> or should we stick with USB+arduino for now?
[18:25:11] <IchGuckLive> i made also more stl for US national points
[18:26:04] <andypugh> A1Sheds: That was an unworkable idea, when I tried to copy it, so I did it all a very different way.
[18:26:05] <ReadError_> IchGuckLive: using that processor, its drilling my holes backwards
[18:26:20] <ReadError_> its going up instead of down lol
[18:26:31] <andypugh> Have a look at the 7i65 driver to see how to use the Hostmot2 Buffered SPI function.
[18:26:38] <IchGuckLive> ReadError_: do you got a DXF for me
[18:26:51] <IchGuckLive> ReadError_: OR A STL
[18:26:56] <ReadError_> IchGuckLive: i been using a EPS i think
[18:27:10] <A1Sheds> andypugh, what do you suggest for hardware with 16 channels of A/D non realtime to simple ladder?
[18:27:11] <ReadError_> I have an STL though 1sec
[18:27:19] <ReadError_> err
[18:27:20] <ReadError_> IGS
[18:27:25] <ReadError_> is what i been using, my bad
[18:27:49] <andypugh> A/D?
[18:27:54] <andypugh> Not many choices.
[18:27:55] <IchGuckLive> sorry caplocked
[18:28:04] <A1Sheds> analog from thermocouples and pressure sensors
[18:28:17] <IchGuckLive> ReadError_: can you provide it if the part is not secread
[18:28:36] <andypugh> I wonder if Phidgets work with hal_input?
[18:28:36] <JT-Shop> is there a .mov editor that is free?
[18:28:42] <ReadError_> yea, STL or EGS?
[18:28:47] <ReadError_> igs*
[18:28:53] <ReadError_> igs had all the right dimensions and such
[18:28:58] <IchGuckLive> your choce
[18:28:59] <andypugh> A1Sheds: It would be nice to make a COMEDI interface for HAL.
[18:29:01] <ReadError_> DXF was only 1D
[18:29:54] <A1Sheds> andypugh, using this to control a large extruder with a DC servo
[18:30:07] <ReadError_> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/25091878/MountPlate2.IGS
[18:30:46] <A1Sheds> http://i01.i.aliimg.com/photo/v0/50519129/Clam_Shell_Barrel_Co_rotating_Twin_Screw.jpg something like this with several zones with analog heat or pressure
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[18:31:23] <IchGuckLive> ReadError_: got it
[18:31:27] <ReadError_> cool ;)
[18:31:41] <A1Sheds> andypugh, yeah, they support lots of boards
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[18:33:19] <andypugh> A1Sheds: As you have probably noticed, the Mesa 7i65 has 8 analogue inputs, and it is supported by LinuxCNC
[18:33:23] <ReadError_> http://i.imgur.com/vFUi8.png
[18:33:25] <ReadError_> you can see
[18:33:27] <IchGuckLive> ReadError_: just drill the littel holes
[18:33:32] <ReadError_> its trying to enter below the part
[18:34:23] <ReadError_> http://pastie.org/3896425
[18:34:27] <ReadError_> thats my gcode
[18:34:38] <andypugh> A1Sheds: I am surprised that there isn't a smart-serial analogue input card. Especially as at least some of them measure analog voltage and return a digital result.
[18:34:41] <ReadError_> but i cant really see WHY its trying to enter below the part as Z isnt being specified before
[18:34:59] <ReadError_> Line 48
[18:35:03] <ReadError_> is where that entry is
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[18:35:32] <ReadError_> it has to be that 'G43 HZ'
[18:35:38] <ReadError_> it has to be that 'G43 H2' *
[18:35:56] <A1Sheds> andypugh, yeah, the 7i65 is a bit pricey for just 8 AD inputs
[18:36:21] <IchGuckLive> i see first why is the part offset not Zero in the middel of the big hole ?
[18:36:26] <andypugh> Ah, but the 7i66-8 has 16 channels of 8-bit Analogue...
[18:36:49] <ReadError_> ahhhhh
[18:36:54] <ReadError_> i removed that G43 H2
[18:36:57] <ReadError_> and that seemed to fix it
[18:37:00] <andypugh> A1Sheds: And is only $79
[18:37:20] <A1Sheds> better
[18:37:32] <IchGuckLive> ReadError_: :D
[18:37:56] <ReadError_> now i need to figure out WHY that is being put in there
[18:37:57] <ReadError_> http://www.linuxcnc.org/images/fbfiles/files/EMC2_Inch.txt
[18:38:04] <ReadError_> thats the processor I used btw
[18:38:05] <A1Sheds> 9bit would be better
[18:38:36] <IchGuckLive> ReadError_: Tol ofset in Z as in tooltable number 2
[18:43:31] <joe9> andypugh: that worked like a charm. thanks a lot. http://codepad.org/wTWJ9QES
[18:43:44] <joe9> andypugh: wow, what a difference.
[18:44:14] <andypugh> That looks very usable.
[18:44:31] <IchGuckLive> joe9: SMI ?
[18:45:06] <joe9> yes. IchGuckLive
[18:45:12] <IchGuckLive> AH
[18:45:28] <IchGuckLive> joe9: you will get a very nice moving mill
[18:46:16] <archivist> andypugh, look in the mail archive re COMEDI
[18:46:22] <ReadError_> IchGuckLive: so would EMC be rending it that way due to the tool table?
[18:47:39] <IchGuckLive> yes
[18:47:53] <IchGuckLive> the Z offset is the H 2 is the linenumber
[18:48:03] <IchGuckLive> you can combinate that with all
[18:48:13] <archivist> andypugh, or possibly irc archive cant actually remember where it was discussed but someone did get something going
[18:48:16] <IchGuckLive> so no matter what tool is loadet
[18:48:17] <A1Sheds> http://www.mailinglistarchive.com/html/emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net/2012-01/msg00017.html
[18:48:47] <IchGuckLive> ReadError_: the D is also that way
[18:48:59] <IchGuckLive> You can go with T1 D4 H6
[18:49:30] <IchGuckLive> or in the next G42/41 D1 for the finish
[18:50:05] <IchGuckLive> this gives you rouphinh and finishing with in 1 programm without changing the tool diameter
[18:50:37] <IchGuckLive> i need to make a video HOWto of this but then my 8000students wil now it befor to teatch
[18:51:39] <ReadError_> hmm so i need to change Z offset in tool
[18:52:38] <IchGuckLive> yes with this you can run your code with material alowence in Z
[18:52:44] <ReadError_> ahhh
[18:52:47] <ReadError_> that seems to work
[18:53:01] <IchGuckLive> or in normal its the ofset of the tool to a given calibration point
[18:54:56] <IchGuckLive> ok im off by
[18:55:39] <IchGuckLive> B) have a nice day tomorow its open capus on the university so 20.000 people in the workplace to see the linuxcnc running
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[19:03:03] <joe9> does anyone run the acpid process on their linuxcnc machine.
[19:03:37] <ktchk> yes
[19:03:44] <joe9> i like the ability to poweroff the machine from the command line and I think that needs acpid.
[19:03:56] <joe9> or, some sort of acpi functionality.
[19:04:03] <joe9> ktchk: ok, thanks.
[19:05:18] <ktchk> Joe9: my laptop fujisu under ubuntu 10.04 lts rtai emc2.5 driving router
[19:06:26] <joe9> ktchk: do you have this optionACPI_PROCESSOR enabled in the kernel?
[19:06:40] <joe9> ACPI_PROCESSOR
[19:07:01] <ktchk> joe9: the grub kernal command line added acpid
[19:07:04] <alex_joni> joe9: the 8.04 didn't have acpi stuff enabled
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[19:07:13] <alex_joni> the linuxcnc 8.04 kernel*
[19:07:25] <alex_joni> and you had to keep the button pushed for a pc to shutdown
[19:07:34] <alex_joni> on 10.04 it's enabled, and should just work
[19:07:59] <joe9> alex_joni: thanks. i thought it was disabled at some point.
[19:08:11] <joe9> alex_joni, can you please check this option
[19:08:15] <joe9> ACPI_PROCESSOR
[19:08:20] <joe9> if you do not mind?
[19:08:29] <alex_joni> on which one?
[19:08:44] <joe9> the latest, 10.04
[19:09:02] <alex_joni> not right now, sorry
[19:09:08] <alex_joni> only 8.04 is in git http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=infrastructure.git;a=tree;f=livecd/kernels/hardy;h=630b19a6b1f3b7d43ba1dbc46fa988beadbca8d5;hb=HEAD
[19:09:20] <joe9> ktchk: it is a kernel configuration option.
[19:09:50] <ktchk> joe9: the grub kernal command duin boot
[19:10:24] <alex_joni> joe9: mozmck worked on the 10.04 kernel, he should know
[19:10:38] <alex_joni> alternatively you can download the kernel deb from linuxcnc.org and just check
[19:10:44] <joe9> ktchk: alex_joni: thanks. let me enable it and see what happens.
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[19:47:14] <hmwhat> i'm trying to setup a custom kinematics machine using pncconf. Is there some documentation on that that I am missing?
[19:50:33] <skunkworks> hmwhat: this? http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.5/html/motion/kinematics.html
[19:56:08] <hmwhat> skunkworks: I followed that example, but when I am running pncconf to setup my configuration, I am getting the "You forgot to designate a stepper/pwn for axis x,y,z"
[19:56:08] <skunkworks> I don't think you can use pncconf to setup non trival kins machine... (but this is above my pay grade)
[19:56:08] <jthornton> above my pay grade too but your better off starting with a sample config if one is close
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[19:57:33] <jthornton> kind of marry the two important parts together...
[19:57:46] <skunkworks> jthornton: did you do pid?
[19:58:08] <skunkworks> I am running open loop - and for the most part - it is well within our tolerance.. ;)
[19:58:28] <jthornton> lol, I don't remember
[19:58:28] <skunkworks> it tracks pretty darn close (analog into the vfd)
[19:58:31] <jthornton> let me look
[20:00:33] <jthornton> mine uses pwmgen and encoder and scale
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[20:01:18] <imbezol> emc redirects here?
[20:01:21] <jthornton> I like this line in my hal file "net trick-axis motion.spindle-reverse"
[20:01:38] <jthornton> yep
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[20:02:04] <imbezol> what's emc in this context?
[20:02:10] <jthornton> Enhanced Machine Controller was the name before nasty people at EMC Corp forced a change
[20:02:38] <imbezol> do you play for the sharks?
[20:02:38] <jthornton> just so they get top billing during a google search lol
[20:02:47] <imbezol> the naming reality in this channel seems off :)
[20:03:15] <imbezol> http://sharks.nhl.com/club/player.htm?id=8466138
[20:05:27] <micges> jthornton: did you checked emc in 1milion search tool you found? there is plenty of emc there
[20:08:58] <JT-Shop> I wonder what we are talking about... well maybe not
[20:09:38] <frysteev> http://www.soundboard.com/sb/Price_Is_Right_show.aspx
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[20:39:45] <ReadError_> hmmm
[20:39:56] <ReadError_> z-offset value for tools always negative correct?
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[20:58:15] <alex4nder> hey
[21:05:32] <ReadError_> hello sir
[21:05:40] <alex4nder> sup ReadError_
[21:06:06] <ReadError_> tryin to get 'learned on this z-offset in tooltable
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[21:07:53] <alex4nder> I see
[21:08:14] <alex4nder> you planning on switching tools a bunch?
[21:08:31] <ReadError_> nope, im using the same endmill for everything on this
[21:09:35] <alex4nder> what's the tool table for then?
[21:09:56] <ReadError_> well, the toolpath generation hard codes it in
[21:10:04] <ReadError_> G43 code
[21:10:51] <alex4nder> I see
[21:11:37] <alex4nder> ReadError_: have you milled any PCBs yet?
[21:14:42] <ReadError_> nah i got some i need to though
[21:15:06] <alex4nder> me too
[21:15:14] <alex4nder> I need to buy some engraving bits and make a vacuum table.
[21:15:19] <ReadError_> need to get some drill bits
[21:15:25] <alex4nder> have you done anything with the ones you bought?
[21:15:31] <ReadError_> nah not yet
[21:15:36] <ReadError_> i been messing with dremel bits so far
[21:15:42] <ReadError_> since they are cheap and easy to get
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[21:26:56] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[21:27:01] <Jymmm> gn9
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[21:32:27] <elmo40> http://grabcad.com/
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[21:53:47] <ReadError_> *facepalm*
[21:54:01] <ReadError_> no wonder, solidworks had my part as 0.1
[21:54:08] <ReadError_> when i assumed i set it as 0.125
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[22:25:46] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.ebay.com/itm/380423408147?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
[22:25:48] <r00t4rd3d> i bought one
[22:26:01] <r00t4rd3d> even though i dont really need it
[22:26:17] <r00t4rd3d> but all you guys say its good so...
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[22:31:46] <alex4nder> ReadError_: I'm going to do some PCB milling this weekend, I think
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[22:32:08] <Tom_itx> wear a mask
[22:32:11] <alex4nder> yup
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[22:32:21] <alex4nder> and a wet-dry vac at the spindle
[22:32:29] <alex4nder> r00t4rd3d: how is the Linux video support on that board?
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[22:32:36] <r00t4rd3d> no clue
[22:32:45] <r00t4rd3d> most likely okay though
[22:32:51] <andypugh> Good.
[22:32:55] <alex4nder> I need to post up my machine recipe
[22:33:23] <r00t4rd3d> i will probably put a video card in it
[22:34:31] <alex4nder> the n2800 gets nice low jitter numbers, but the video driver support is meh
[22:35:29] <alex4nder> andypugh: wait, which video driver do the 525 users use?
[22:35:50] <andypugh> No idea. It "Just Works"
[22:37:20] <r00t4rd3d> andypugh, you have a 525MW? Can you help me locate some memory for it on ebay?
[22:37:30] <r00t4rd3d> i got 15 bucks left to spend :)
[22:37:37] <andypugh> Well, actually I have a D510, the earlier one.
[22:38:01] <andypugh> Have you tried Crucial.com ?
[22:38:23] <r00t4rd3d> it says PC3-8500 but Crucial list the max memory at DDR3-10600
[22:38:54] <r00t4rd3d> pc3-8500 is more expensive :/
[22:38:57] <alex4nder> oh, the 525 is GMA 3150
[22:39:02] <andypugh> 8500 is less than 10600 in the maths I learned at school.
[22:39:33] <r00t4rd3d> 2gig of 10600 14.99 2g of 8500 , 19.99
[22:39:52] <andypugh> I only have 1 gig, that's plenty for LinuxCNC
[22:40:55] <r00t4rd3d> im buying 2 from crucial
[22:41:14] <alex4nder> r00t4rd3d: the tech specs say that board only ever runs the ram at 800 MHz
[22:41:54] <whattodo> r00t4rd3d: I am also using the 525MW
[22:42:04] <alex4nder> er 800 MT/s
[22:42:04] <andypugh> Has anyone seen PCW recently?
[22:42:10] <whattodo> I got 4GB from newegg for $23
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[22:42:20] <Tom_itx> andypugh somebody said he was on vacation?
[22:42:35] <r00t4rd3d> i got 15.22 left on my paypal
[22:42:44] <r00t4rd3d> crucial tried to tax me
[22:42:45] <Tom_itx> i'm not sure
[22:42:56] <whattodo> ah. sorry
[22:42:56] <alex4nder> laf
[22:42:57] <andypugh> Ah. OK. I have a photo for him. https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/W_eX4qsT_4YY76KI9_1kl9MTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink A young girl from the village brought her pet round to my parents' house last weekennd.
[22:43:43] <Tom_itx> omg
[22:43:59] <andypugh> Country folk, eh?
[22:44:28] <Tom_itx> i'd say
[22:44:39] <alex4nder> that's rad
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[22:46:55] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2GB-PC3-10600-DDR3-1333MHz-SODIMM-Laptop-Memory-Ram-/160798917505?pt=US_Memory_RAM_&hash=item25705cc381
[22:47:05] <r00t4rd3d> that should work in the 525mw right?
[22:48:08] <alex4nder> it will work
[22:48:21] <alex4nder> but the specs say you only need PC3-6400
[22:48:45] <r00t4rd3d> thats low end
[22:49:01] <alex4nder> the specs say that's the maximum that board will ever use.
[22:49:15] <r00t4rd3d> specs say 8500
[22:49:33] <alex4nder> "Note: DDR 1066 MHz and DDR3 1333 MHz will run at 800 MHz'
[22:49:52] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.ebay.com/itm/RAMAXEL-4GB-DDR3-2x2GB-PC3-10600S-1333MHz-Laptop-Memory-Mac-Thinkpad-HP-Dell-RAM-/360457553475?pt=US_Memory_RAM_&hash=item53ecf1c643
[22:50:00] <r00t4rd3d> oh i can swing that too
[22:50:16] <alex4nder> whatever you can get
[22:50:20] <alex4nder> the board isn't going to care.
[22:50:59] <r00t4rd3d> i know it will only run at the max mhz the board can handle
[22:51:59] <r00t4rd3d> the last link i posted, that will work right before i click buy it now
[22:52:56] <r00t4rd3d> whattodo, should that be okay?
[22:54:46] <r00t4rd3d> hope so i just bought it
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[22:55:12] <r00t4rd3d> i wonder what the S means, PC3-10600S
[22:55:44] <Tom_itx> special applications only
[22:55:57] <r00t4rd3d> great
[22:57:03] <robin_sz> so
[22:57:11] <Tom_itx> jk, i don't have a clue
[22:57:12] <robin_sz> greetings
[22:57:30] <robin_sz> I trust you all are well and enjoying a fine evening
[22:58:02] <robin_sz> could I enquire what you fine gentlemen would suggest as a free PCB layout tool?
[22:58:14] <robin_sz> my board is too big for the free version of Eagle :(
[22:58:30] <Tom_itx> i'm partial to eagle but i'm beyond the free part
[22:58:35] <Tom_itx> geda maybe?
[22:58:39] <Tom_itx> i've never used it
[22:58:42] <r00t4rd3d> the pirate bay
[22:58:54] <robin_sz> err, not PB
[22:59:05] <djdelorie> geda/pcb is what I use
[22:59:12] <djdelorie> but I'm biased :-)
[22:59:18] <robin_sz> ive heard of one guy coming unstuck with a dodgy eagle license
[22:59:31] <robin_sz> the board house he sent the files to reported him
[22:59:34] <Tom_itx> i paid for one
[22:59:35] <r00t4rd3d> they dont have a listing anyways
[22:59:47] <robin_sz> geda
[22:59:55] <robin_sz> does it have schematic capture too?
[23:00:17] <djdelorie> yes
[23:00:23] <robin_sz> neato
[23:00:23] <djdelorie> www.geda-project.org
[23:00:44] <djdelorie> and simulation, and a verilog compiler, and verilog simulator, and photorelistic output, and... well, lots of things
[23:00:53] <Tom_itx> if you send the gerbers they have no way to know where they came from
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[23:00:59] <alex4nder> yah
[23:01:06] <robin_sz> he sent an eagle project
[23:01:10] <djdelorie> most houses take eagle brd files as-is
[23:01:11] <Tom_itx> i'm not worried about it anyway
[23:01:22] <robin_sz> well, yeah. I prefer not to use dodgy licenses
[23:01:31] <robin_sz> buy one or use gpl, easy
[23:01:35] <Tom_itx> i don't send the board files anywhere
[23:01:38] <djdelorie> robin_sz: start here: http://www.delorie.com/pcb/docs/gs/
[23:01:52] <Tom_itx> your board goes beyond the free license?
[23:02:01] <Tom_itx> you could get a student license
[23:02:02] <djdelorie> although there's a one-click import function in pcb now, instead of gsch2pcb
[23:02:07] <Tom_itx> or not for profit...
[23:02:23] <robin_sz> truesells
[23:02:28] <andypugh> djdelorie: Ah, that sounds good, and only 10 years after it became an obvious thing to do.
[23:02:33] <Tom_itx> since element 14 bought them i don't know their pricing structure anymore
[23:02:47] <robin_sz> let me go and look if geda sucks or is lovely
[23:02:55] <djdelorie> a lot of things are obvious after the fact ;-)
[23:03:06] <alex4nder> heh
[23:03:10] <alex4nder> yah, that's pretty innovative
[23:04:03] <andypugh> I am moving to gEDA on my Mac. I was happy enough with DesignSpark, but prefer to run native.
[23:04:33] <djdelorie> there's a #geda on OFTC that I hang out on, if anyone needs real-time help with it
[23:04:45] <roycroft> i'm starting to use geda
[23:04:48] <roycroft> it seems quite capable
[23:05:51] <robin_sz> Tom_itx, its 965 eur, too much for me
[23:06:12] <robin_sz> i need more than 100 x 160
[23:06:16] <roycroft> it's not very well-behaved on os x, though
[23:06:24] <r00t4rd3d> robin_sz, #arduino might be able to point you in the right direction also
[23:06:27] <Tom_itx> ok
[23:06:58] <robin_sz> Tom_itx, the hobbyist would be fine, apart from the 100 x 160 limit, which sucks ass
[23:07:07] <andypugh> Under Windows, DesignSpark is pretty good, and is free from RS. (as in, they have promised it will always be free). I think Farnell bought Eagle. (OK, Internet rumour, no checking)
[23:07:54] <Tom_itx> robin_sz, yeah i don't worry with that on mine
[23:08:24] <djdelorie> the first eagle component I used had the wrong pin spacing. It was a db25 connector too :-P
[23:08:53] <andypugh> I had hoped that DesignSpark would interface nicely with RS parts catalogues, but it really doesn't. Which seems like a missed opportunity. It would be immensely nice for the RS part number to bring up schematic and layout.
[23:09:12] <robin_sz> is designspark free?
[23:09:15] <Tom_itx> i started using eagle about ver 2.xx and just kept going
[23:09:20] <andypugh> You do at least know where you are with gEDA
[23:09:36] * robin_sz places a capacitor on the schematic
[23:09:47] <robin_sz> so far so good
[23:10:15] <Tom_itx> andypugh can you edit packages of symbols with it if you find out you have the wrong package?
[23:10:16] <robin_sz> I take it that geda back annotates between the pcb and the schematic?
[23:10:26] <Tom_itx> i would hope so
[23:10:30] <Tom_itx> that's basic
[23:10:34] <djdelorie> there's a netlister that extracts all the information from the schematics that the pcb layout tool needs
[23:10:40] <djdelorie> File->Import runs it :-)
[23:11:01] <andypugh> robin_sz: Yes, it's free. But not Free. Tom_itx Yes, you can. http://www.designspark.com/pcb
[23:11:03] <djdelorie> there's no *back* annotation yet, just *forward* annotation
[23:11:14] <robin_sz> but a netlist wont tell it what the package is will it?
[23:11:15] -!- pfred1 [pfred1!~pfred1@unaffiliated/pfred1] has joined #linuxcnc
[23:11:16] <andypugh> But please note that I am using gEDA now.
[23:11:29] <djdelorie> so all connectivity and attribute changes need to be done in the schematic tool, then imported.
[23:11:36] <robin_sz> ok
[23:11:54] <pfred1> I've thought about using gEDA
[23:11:59] <djdelorie> yes, the netlister includes the package. It's the footprint= attribute on the schematic symbol. Go read the tutorial I linked to ;-)
[23:12:07] <robin_sz> okies
[23:12:51] <Tom_itx> sounds like you have plenty of help here with it
[23:12:51] <andypugh> As far as I can see, with all of them, you need to create a schamatic and a layout for almost any compoment, as they never have the one you just bought in the library. And it is a complete pain in the neck with all of them.
[23:12:57] <djdelorie> the corresponding gschem tutorial is at http://wiki.geda-project.org/geda:gsch2pcb_tutorial but only read up to "Generate PCB files..."
[23:13:03] <robin_sz> i was just sort of surprised it let me pick a capacitor to put on the scmeatic without being offered a choice of footrpints
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[23:13:18] <Tom_itx> andypugh yeah, i have a growing library
[23:13:18] <djdelorie> robin_sz: you get to choose the footprints later :-)
[23:13:22] <robin_sz> andypugh, eagle does at least have all the relevant SMD packagaes for most things
[23:13:31] <Tom_itx> although eagle is much better with it's libs lately
[23:13:36] <robin_sz> in only do smd
[23:13:48] <pfred1> I always end up having to make some part
[23:13:48] <djdelorie> andypugh: we've been building web-based package designers, like http://www.gedasymbols.org/user/dj_delorie/tools/dilpad.html
[23:14:00] <robin_sz> neat
[23:14:13] <robin_sz> lets hope they have one for an ECC83 ;)
[23:14:17] <Tom_itx> robin_sz, eagle also added that refpackages.lbr with lots of layouts
[23:14:26] <robin_sz> yeay
[23:14:30] <andypugh> I found making new parts in Eagle really frustrating. DesignSpark is a bit better, but still not exactly smooth. gEDA os just, well, Linuxy. There are two ways to do it, and a battleground about which is best.
[23:14:46] <pfred1> andypugh you and me both I always sweat out making parts
[23:14:48] <djdelorie> the geda list has had quite a few philosophical discussions on how to "best" manage libraries
[23:14:49] <robin_sz> and I use the designspark eagle library a lot :)
[23:14:50] <Tom_itx> i don't think any are seamless
[23:15:02] <djdelorie> andypugh: way more than just two :-)
[23:15:03] <robin_sz> oh did I mean sparkfun library
[23:15:22] <pfred1> djdelorie a photo import function :)
[23:15:26] <djdelorie> got it
[23:15:39] <Tom_itx> there is also kicad
[23:15:45] <djdelorie> http://www.delorie.com/pcb/bg-image.html
[23:15:46] <Tom_itx> but i know little about it
[23:15:58] <robin_sz> I tried kicad
[23:16:02] <robin_sz> that really sucked
[23:16:05] <pfred1> I tried all the FOSS circuit design stuff like 2 years ago
[23:16:07] <Tom_itx> ok
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[23:16:18] <robin_sz> protel is nice
[23:16:22] <robin_sz> but $$$
[23:16:25] <pfred1> robin_sz that was about where i was at 2 years ago when I tried everything
[23:16:26] <Tom_itx> well of course
[23:16:44] <djdelorie> I did a lab on using 100% FOSS for electronics design two years ago, and the text terminal was NEVER used.
[23:16:54] <Tom_itx> altium is probably one of the best
[23:17:12] <pfred1> djdelorie my stuff was crashing when I tried to work through some tutorials so I packed it in and went back to Eagle
[23:17:36] <djdelorie> pfred1: this time around, let me know about the crashes first ;-)
[23:18:01] <pfred1> djdelorie the packages in Debian are so ancient I usually DL the source and build it locally
[23:18:19] <djdelorie> me too :-)
[23:18:31] <pfred1> Debian doesn't declare anything stable until it is obsolete
[23:20:59] <pfred1> I installed Blender with apt-get then tried working through some tutorials and I was like I don't have that tool box on the side of the window
[23:22:28] <pfred1> I couldn't build Blender with ffmpeg support though it is very particular about which version you have the one Debian came with was too old and my CVS was too new
[23:24:04] <pfred1> Debian was 0.7 and CVS was 0.10 and it was looking for > .8
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[23:24:59] <skorket> does anyone have any experience with grbl?
[23:25:35] * pfred1 ain't touching that topic!
[23:26:03] <skorket> Is it inappropriate to ask in this forum?
[23:26:40] <andypugh> I don't even know what grbl is, so can't have an opinion on propriety.
[23:27:33] <Tom_itx> Grbl is a free, open source embedded CNC controller for the AVR series of microcontrollers.
[23:27:38] <Tom_itx> or so it says
[23:27:42] <pfred1> neat
[23:27:50] <Tom_itx> http://grbl.tumblr.com/
[23:27:59] <andypugh> Ah, OK.
[23:28:09] <Tom_itx> you might ask in reprap
[23:28:26] <pfred1> I just found out reprap is Java
[23:28:32] <andypugh> We are not commercial, so aren't in competition. But at the same time, I doubt many folk here use it.
[23:28:34] <Tom_itx> oh
[23:29:22] <pfred1> I think the whole reprap project is the poster child for why academics shouldn't get involved in engineering
[23:29:29] <skorket> Yeah, just got a test working! Looks like my understanding of gcode is near minimal
[23:29:39] <skorket> ha...but they raised the bar at least
[23:29:52] <skorket> they were first out the gate. Makerbot came soon after
[23:30:09] <pfred1> 3D printing has been around since the 70s
[23:30:19] <robin_sz> djdelorie, will geda import an eagle netlist?
[23:30:38] <djdelorie> there are no tools to do that, but the pcb imports are plain ascii
[23:30:43] <andypugh> Reprap was based around the idea of machines to make machines. That was the fun part.
[23:30:55] <djdelorie> proprietary companies don't like sharing their file format information
[23:31:11] <djdelorie> but if you can get the information out, you can likely figure out how to import it
[23:31:18] <pfred1> andypugh trying to solve the age old question of which came first, the chicken, or the egg?
[23:31:27] <djdelorie> the egg
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[23:32:15] <pfred1> djdelorie space aliens might have just tossed some chickens off their ship
[23:32:47] <pfred1> that is how most chickens around the world got to where they are now humans tossed chickens off their ships
[23:33:41] <Tom_itx> there are chickens running wild on Gran Caymen now after the hurricane went thru there. they can't catch them all
[23:33:53] <djdelorie> the logic is: an egg and the adult it grows into have the same DNA, therefor must be the same species. However, an adult and the egg it lays need not be, so the change from "not a chicken" to "chicken" must have happened when the egg was made
[23:33:59] <pfred1> that is about the only way you can get a chicken to migrate
[23:35:53] <pfred1> I was reading an interesting article about cosmic radiation a while back
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[23:41:15] <andypugh> djdelorie: You sound like one of then there evolutionists! Is that allowed in the US?
[23:43:53] <pfred1> andypugh it varies by state
[23:44:33] <andypugh> This is good, and is best at about 4:30 http://youtu.be/O1nSuWztIrY
[23:44:40] <pfred1> I think DJ lives in Vermont which is home of a lot of godless hippies
[23:45:00] <djdelorie> nope
[23:45:21] <pfred1> New Hampshire?
[23:45:37] <pfred1> I always get those two confused
[23:45:45] <djdelorie> yep. The "Live Free or Die" state
[23:46:51] <pfred1> blindfold me and drop me off in VT or NH and i couldn't tell them apart
[23:47:30] <roycroft> um, teh godless hippies live here in oregon
[23:48:03] <roycroft> washington is the least church-going state in the union, followed closely by oregon
[23:51:01] <pfred1> what does it say on the vermont license plate?
[23:51:07] <djdelorie> "Moo" ?
[23:51:28] <pfred1> where I'm at now DE they don't put anything
[23:51:45] <pfred1> they're funny about license plates here
[23:51:53] <djdelorie> http://www.plateshack.com/y2k/Vermont/vty2k.html
[23:52:14] <pfred1> ah it is the green mountain state
[23:52:38] <pfred1> like ther eare no green mountains in Maine
[23:52:51] <djdelorie> vs http://www.plateshack.com/y2k/New_Hampshire/nhy2k.html
[23:53:05] <roycroft> folks from main don't like to brag
[23:53:10] <pfred1> I got a kick out of Maine's plates when I went on vacation there
[23:53:48] <pfred1> maniacs are some strange people
[23:53:50] <djdelorie> based on the Maine page there, the state motto is "we can't decide what to put on our plates"
[23:53:59] <pfred1> it used to be vacationland
[23:54:11] <djdelorie> "Lobster" is also popular
[23:54:18] <pfred1> tourism is their #1 industry
[23:54:32] <djdelorie> with "trailer" a close third...
[23:56:07] <pfred1> maine is really building up anymore
[23:56:29] <pfred1> last time I went there I couldn't believe it they got FM radio and everything
[23:56:55] <pfred1> the first time I went there they really didn't
[23:57:37] <djdelorie> Maine is so far behind the times, even GPS doesn't work there.
[23:57:44] <pfred1> heh
[23:58:01] <pfred1> north of freeport is really god's country
[23:58:15] <pfred1> you and god and not a whole lot of other folks around
[23:59:51] <pfred1> if your town has a population of 6 they'll put you on the map just so it isn't one big green blob