#linuxcnc | Logs for 2012-05-03

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[00:07:41] <Aero-Tec> does the older live download have the newer EMC 2.5?
[00:08:15] <pfred1> Aero-Tec it could
[00:08:34] <Aero-Tec> how would one find out for sure?
[00:08:44] <pfred1> you can download and install LinuxCNC separately
[00:08:46] <Aero-Tec> other then downloading it and trying it out
[00:09:29] <andypugh> No, the older LiveCD will install a 2.4 (or maybe 2.3) but can then be updated to 2.5
[00:09:59] <andypugh> Anyway, sleep time
[00:10:08] <pfred1> Aero-Tec the live ISOs are just one way of doing LinuxCNC
[00:10:26] <pfred1> the easiest way but not the only way
[00:10:45] <andypugh> But also an easy way to reset a password.
[00:10:50] <Aero-Tec> I like easy
[00:11:00] <andypugh> Not a quick way, though
[00:11:02] <pfred1> nothing worthwhile is ever easy
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[00:12:35] <Aero-Tec> so does the new linux have large over head?
[00:12:46] <Aero-Tec> more of a CPU hog?
[00:12:58] <pfred1> depends how you configure it
[00:13:21] <Aero-Tec> the new live CD is smaller then the old it look like
[00:13:28] <pfred1> Aero-Tec I'm going to assume you don't know much about Linux
[00:13:36] <Aero-Tec> lol
[00:13:42] <Aero-Tec> did it show?
[00:13:59] <Aero-Tec> I use to do servers
[00:14:00] <pfred1> Aero-Tec well with Linux you can change your Window Manager or Desktop Environment
[00:14:07] <Aero-Tec> redhat
[00:14:17] <Aero-Tec> remote console
[00:14:17] <pfred1> and depending on which you use some are a lot lighter than others
[00:14:30] <Aero-Tec> long long ago
[00:14:32] <pfred1> LinuxCNC defaults to one of the heavier ones out there
[00:15:01] <pfred1> Gnome
[00:15:21] <pfred1> but lets say you switched to Fluxbox
[00:15:36] <pfred1> flux is a LOT lighter than Gnome is!
[00:15:44] <Aero-Tec> is there a better over all user interface?
[00:15:54] <Aero-Tec> for EMC
[00:15:55] <pfred1> that is subjective
[00:16:10] <pfred1> well EMC comes all setup in Gnome
[00:16:11] <Aero-Tec> using axis right now
[00:16:22] <pfred1> you have menu items icons etc
[00:16:39] <pfred1> but all of that stuff points to scripts or binary applications
[00:17:05] <pfred1> which you could access directly or make new menu items and icons for in other window managers
[00:17:32] <pfred1> or just make it fire up when you turn the machine on
[00:17:37] <Jymmmm> keystick FTW!
[00:17:51] <Aero-Tec> are you talking linux GUI or EMC GUI?
[00:18:08] <Jymmmm> who's you?
[00:18:08] <pfred1> linux doesn't have a gui per se
[00:18:19] <pfred1> unless you want to count make xconfig
[00:18:22] * Jymmmm kicks pfred1 in the ass and hands him a cookie again
[00:18:44] <pfred1> Jymmmm my ignore list os forever
[00:18:48] <pfred1> Jymmmm my ignore list is forever
[00:19:14] <Jymmmm> did someone say something?
[00:19:15] <pfred1> and you're about this >.< close to it now
[00:19:37] <Aero-Tec> what would be the best beginner GUI to use for EMC?
[00:19:44] <pfred1> Gnome
[00:19:52] <Jymmmm> pfred1: It be nice if you gave accurate information as well.
[00:19:52] <pfred1> because it is all setup
[00:20:08] <pfred1> Jymmmm what have I said that is inaccurate?
[00:20:28] <Aero-Tec> not easy to setup
[00:20:39] <Aero-Tec> best for using to make chips
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[00:20:42] <Jymmmm> linux has no gui, you HAVE to have old password, etc
[00:20:58] <pfred1> Jymmmm pfred1@buck:/media/giga/Files$ passwd
[00:20:58] <pfred1> Changing password for pfred1.
[00:20:58] <pfred1> (current) UNIX password:
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[00:21:05] <pfred1> Jymmmm bye
[00:21:13] <pfred1> 20:21 Ignoring ALL from Jymmmm
[00:21:52] <Aero-Tec> there use to be Xwindows and a few other GUIs for linux
[00:21:57] <Aero-Tec> am I wrong?
[00:22:08] <Jymmmm> yes there was
[00:22:09] <pfred1> linux is an OS kernel it has nothing to do sith X Window
[00:22:15] <djdelorie> Linux has no GUI. Ubuntu has many GUIs
[00:22:31] <djdelorie> Linux is just one component of Ubuntu
[00:22:32] <Aero-Tec> I know I did have a selection of GUIs at one time that I could use with linux
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[00:22:38] <pfred1> X Window is at least 10 years older than Linux
[00:22:52] <djdelorie> The catch is, not "with linux" - it's "with a linux-based distro"
[00:22:55] <Aero-Tec> ok
[00:23:07] <djdelorie> it's pedantic, but that's what they're talking about
[00:23:10] <Valen> actually I wonder if for 12.04 EMC livecd should move to xubuntu
[00:23:22] <Jymmmm> djdelorie: But ppl know it as linux, not a linux distro
[00:23:25] <Valen> unity is just too painfull
[00:23:29] <djdelorie> Hence the "pedantic"
[00:23:29] <pfred1> I vote for plain Debian
[00:23:41] <Valen> problem is gnome itself pfred1
[00:23:42] <djdelorie> pfred1: how'd your Fedora thing work out?
[00:23:45] <Jymmmm> DOS has no GUI, plain and simple
[00:23:46] <Valen> gnome3 isn't much better
[00:23:46] <pfred1> Debian has its drawbacks but the ycan be overcome
[00:23:59] <Valen> main issue i see with debian is hardware support
[00:23:59] <Jymmmm> boot any linux today and you have a gui
[00:23:59] <djdelorie> Jymmmm: DOS's GUi is Windows ;-)
[00:24:07] <pfred1> djdelorie not good when I installed 32 bit compat libs to run Eagle
[00:24:07] <Valen> out of the box
[00:24:10] <Jymmmm> djdelorie: MS-DOS 6.21
[00:24:18] <Jymmmm> djdelorie: MS-D)S 3.31
[00:24:22] <Jymmmm> etc
[00:24:29] <pfred1> djdelorie you remember when I asked you about sd(EXEC)?
[00:24:34] <djdelorie> ah, that.
[00:24:48] <pfred1> yeah it made the system unusable
[00:24:54] <Aero-Tec> so back to fixing password, any quick and easy way to reset password or find out what it is?
[00:25:03] <djdelorie> if you can run sudo, you can reset the password
[00:25:04] <pfred1> I'm all for trying to fix stuff but not frozen in molassass
[00:25:04] <Aero-Tec> I used to use DOS all the time
[00:25:12] <Jymmmm> Aero-Tec: you can NEVER find out what it is.
[00:25:13] <Aero-Tec> back in the day
[00:25:21] <pfred1> djdelorie won't it still ask you for your password?
[00:25:25] <djdelorie> Aero-Tec: me too
[00:25:49] <djdelorie> pfred1: sudo bypasses the need for "old password" in passwd, assuming you can get past sudo *itself* wanting a password
[00:25:57] <pfred1> Aero-Tec Pro Tip: wtire your password on a postit note and put that on the side of the machine
[00:26:00] <Jymmmm> djdelorie: you dont know jack about dos! ;)
[00:26:08] <djdelorie> ;-)
[00:26:36] <pfred1> hey I started doing that after I lost my first password
[00:26:37] <Valen> boot into livecd and reset the passwd file hash or is that too ott?
[00:27:16] <Jymmmm> Aero-Tec: That's a very bad idea, never write down passwords and stick them on the monitor, under keyboards, etc. In your wallet is sorta ok
[00:27:21] <pfred1> I've goofed up Linux systems and overinstalled them to recover it works OK
[00:27:30] <djdelorie> IIRC Ubuntu's strategy is to not give root a password at all, but give sudo to the regular user(s), so there's no root password to remember.
[00:27:41] <Jymmmm> djdelorie: exactly
[00:27:56] <pfred1> yeah how the root account is handled today is a strange deal
[00:28:03] <djdelorie> by "not give root a password" I don't mean it has an empty password, I mean there's no password that will match - ever.
[00:28:16] <Valen> I always wind up sticking a password on it ;->
[00:28:21] <djdelorie> that's just Ubuntu. Fedora is different, it gives root a password.
[00:28:25] <pfred1> don't they just deny root a shell?
[00:28:28] <Jymmmm> djdelorie: theres no need to be root, that was the intension
[00:28:38] <Valen> pfred1: nope default root has no password
[00:28:44] <djdelorie> They claim that, but they're wrong, IMHO
[00:28:55] <Jymmmm> djdelorie: Why?
[00:29:02] <Aero-Tec> used to use root all the time when setting up redhat web servers
[00:29:08] <djdelorie> there are subtle differences between sudo and a real root shell
[00:29:11] <pfred1> debian sort of can pull the same thing but you can make an honest to god root account
[00:29:28] <Jymmmm> djdelorie: Sure, but your not talking a wrokstation
[00:29:32] <Valen> you can still use root if you want to
[00:29:35] <Valen> sudo passwd root
[00:29:45] <djdelorie> Jymmmm: I mean a workstation
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[00:30:16] <Jymmmm> djdelorie: The idea is not to allow something with root proveldges to run just becasue the user is logged in as such.
[00:30:16] <Aero-Tec> so is the new live CD cool?
[00:30:30] <pfred1> Aero-Tec its Ubuntu
[00:30:43] <Aero-Tec> but a newer version of it
[00:30:47] <pfred1> how cool that is is a matter of opinion
[00:31:01] <Aero-Tec> was wondering if they made some cool changes
[00:31:05] <pfred1> its better than Windows
[00:31:10] <djdelorie> Jymmmm: true, logging in as root from the greeter is bad, because a lot of things assume the "desktop user" owns most of the system.
[00:31:13] <Aero-Tec> lol
[00:31:19] <Jymmmm> djdelorie: If it asks for a password and you didn't do anything, you'll be like WTF? and wonder what is going on.
[00:31:24] <Aero-Tec> dos was better then windows
[00:31:43] <djdelorie> most greeters won't even let root log in anyway, even if you know the password, for that reason.
[00:31:59] <Valen> setting up roaming profiles on a primary domain controller is easier to do in linux than windows :-<
[00:31:59] <pfred1> what is a greeter?
[00:32:08] <pfred1> like a DM?
[00:32:09] <Valen> the thing that asks you to login pfred1
[00:32:21] <Valen> in a graphical environment
[00:32:29] <pfred1> like GDM or XDM or KDM ?
[00:32:34] <djdelorie> the greeter is the thing that asks you who you want to log in as, and asks for your password, before starting up your desktop
[00:32:47] <djdelorie> GDM for gnome, KDM for kde, etc.
[00:32:53] <pfred1> k a DM
[00:33:43] <pfred1> djdelorie I have this box just about totally tricked out now with Debian Squeeze and Trinity KDE
[00:34:04] * pfred1 loves his KDE 3.5 !
[00:34:15] * djdelorie still uses fvwm2
[00:34:22] <Jymmmm> djdelorie: Did I ever get you the utility FIRM?
[00:34:28] <djdelorie> nope
[00:34:53] <pfred1> after fvwm I used afterstep then windowmaker
[00:35:16] <Jymmmm> djdelorie: creates FDD images under dos and any version of windows
[00:35:27] <pfred1> I used windowmaker for a long time but it kind of turned into abandonware
[00:35:54] <pfred1> it still works today but I donno
[00:36:26] <pfred1> KDE 3.5 does a few things that I find really handy
[00:37:09] <djdelorie> Jymmmm: obsolete, Linux distros come with all that stuff built-in
[00:37:20] <Jymmmm> djdelorie: does dont
[00:37:23] <Jymmmm> dos
[00:37:39] <djdelorie> The only DOS I run these days runs under Linux anyway
[00:37:49] <pfred1> dosemu?
[00:37:53] <Jymmmm> djdelorie: you sell out bastard!
[00:38:02] <djdelorie> hey, I work for Red Hat :-)
[00:38:17] <Jymmmm> djdelorie: No excuse!
[00:38:17] <pfred1> well you were the king of ms-dos once
[00:38:37] <djdelorie> at least I still run DOS *at all* :-)
[00:38:42] <pfred1> I tried out djgpp before i tried Linux
[00:38:56] <djdelorie> A surprizingly large number of people have done that
[00:39:10] <Jymmmm> djdelorie: emu,vm dont count. DesqView I'll accept
[00:39:11] <pfred1> well I'm one of them
[00:39:31] <djdelorie> Jymmmm: I ported djgpp to DesqView X once
[00:39:35] <pfred1> it was a big motivater to take the full plunge
[00:39:42] <gene__> andypugh: if that was a bug, its been there for many years, put it back
[00:39:46] <Jymmmm> djdelorie: and?
[00:40:04] <djdelorie> and Quarterdeck paid me, and people used it until DVX itself went away
[00:40:12] <Jymmmm> cool
[00:40:22] <pfred1> I remember Quarterdeck
[00:40:31] <pfred1> didn't they write qemm?
[00:40:38] <djdelorie> yes
[00:40:51] <pfred1> back when 4MB RAM was a lot!
[00:41:14] <djdelorie> it wasn't enough to run gcc, which is why go32 was created
[00:43:05] <pfred1> I remember having to hack my autoexec.bat and config.sys files
[00:43:32] <pfred1> man and i thought that was tough
[00:43:54] <pfred1> now I have /etc to worry about
[00:45:20] <Aero-Tec> I remember when 4K was allot, and upgrading to 16K was more then you would ever need in a life time, lol
[00:45:33] <ReadError> awwwwwww yea
[00:45:35] <ReadError> weekend ;)
[00:45:58] <Aero-Tec> that was the sales pitch given to me when looking at computers back in the day
[00:46:26] <ReadError> pfred1
[00:46:33] <ReadError> let me know if you have any general questions
[00:46:33] <pfred1> ReadError ?
[00:46:36] <ReadError> thats my job
[00:46:39] <ReadError> linux sys admin
[00:46:48] <ReadError> i dont know much about machining yet though
[00:47:06] <pfred1> ReadError OK how come videos have a blue tinge in them on You Tube?
[00:47:22] <ReadError> lol
[00:47:30] <ReadError> hardware accel on or off?
[00:47:35] <pfred1> on
[00:47:41] <ReadError> try with it off
[00:47:46] <ReadError> i mostly work with servers :)
[00:47:48] <ReadError> not desktops
[00:47:50] <pfred1> I have been messing with my video libs a lot
[00:48:08] <pfred1> setting up mplayer
[00:48:19] <ReadError> i prefer VLC
[00:48:52] <pfred1> with all the troubles I've been having lately i might start preferring something else
[00:48:54] <ReadError> much better IMO
[00:49:14] <pfred1> yeah i think the lead dev of mplayer left in 2009
[00:49:23] <pfred1> it has gone downhill since then
[00:49:32] * djdelorie uses vlc too
[00:51:27] <pfred1> http://pastebin.com/mt3kEy5U
[00:55:03] <pfred1> on the brighter side I got Quake running on dual monitors :)
[00:57:04] <pfred1> how about that passwd won't let you change your password to your old password
[00:57:06] <Valen> i find that worse not better than 1
[00:57:27] <Valen> 3 monitors would be ok
[00:57:28] <Valen> balanced then
[00:57:29] <pfred1> Valen the bezels are distracting
[00:57:46] <ReadError> pfred1: just change some characters in /etc/shadow
[00:58:17] <djdelorie> quake3 on 3 monitors is fine, even with the bezels, as long as the center monitor is bigger
[00:58:45] <pfred1> yeah I'm having a heck of a time with mismatched monitors
[00:59:22] <Valen> problem is with 2 monitors the aim point is in the middle of the gap
[00:59:24] <Valen> which is sucky
[00:59:30] <pfred1> one is 1280x1024 the other is 1400x900
[01:00:04] <pfred1> well that does put my aim point onto my wide screen
[01:00:09] <pfred1> I didn't think about that
[01:01:21] <pfred1> djdelorie this is a $67 computer so only dual screen :)
[01:01:32] <djdelorie> mine is a little more expensive :-)
[01:01:46] <pfred1> that is everything I even added i nthe mouse
[01:02:56] <pfred1> I have my "real" PC upstairs
[01:04:57] <pfred1> I hear nVidia just put out something that can do 3 monitors one card
[01:05:56] <djdelorie> I just replaced two nvidia cards with one ati that can do four monitors on one gpu
[01:06:19] <djdelorie> I have a matrox card that can do four monitors, but the linux driver has serious bugs
[01:06:25] <pfred1> AMD does seem to have the multimonitor lead
[01:07:01] <Connor> I loved Matrox cards back in the day.. 486 and Pentium 1 days.. They rocked!
[01:07:01] <pfred1> AMD and nVidia multi monitor is a bit different
[01:07:53] <pfred1> nVidia kinda lies to X and says it is one big screen
[01:08:21] <djdelorie> if you have one card, yes. If you have two cards, X has to merge them in software. Major performance drop.
[01:08:31] <Valen> and uses the sync rate as a magic code as well
[01:09:30] <pfred1> with my lopsided monitors i am running into some oddities
[01:10:29] <Connor> I've been trying to get my USB monitor hooked up to Ubuntu 10.04 for a long time now.. Just can't get it to work.
[01:10:53] <Valen> usb monitors werent really a thing 2 years ago
[01:11:07] <Connor> Doesn't even work with 11.04 either.
[01:11:09] <Connor> I tried.
[01:11:17] <Valen> they are up to 12.04
[01:11:31] <Valen> what did you want to use it for anyway?
[01:11:35] <Connor> I tried the latest 11.x version
[01:11:51] <Connor> Oh, Robotics.. I had a Mini ITX running linux and ROS..
[01:12:01] <Valen> the first advice anybody is going to give you is use the latest foo
[01:12:11] <Connor> and on my desktop, a little dock for a specific application.
[01:12:42] <Connor> Yea, I'm happy with 10.04. Not EVEN wanting to switch to Unity.
[01:12:50] <pfred1> Valen here the latest foo has turned everyone on YouTube blue!
[01:12:59] <Valen> yeah there is that
[01:13:12] <Valen> i hear removing libvdpau "fixes" it
[01:13:30] <pfred1> is that what turned everyone blue on me?
[01:13:59] <Connor> Valen: Fixes what ?
[01:14:05] <pfred1> blue hue
[01:14:22] <Valen> i believe its something to do with flash player handing the data to the hardware video decoder with the channels mixed around
[01:14:42] <Valen> taking out vdpau gets rid of hardware playback
[01:15:31] <pfred1> SmurfTube!
[01:15:47] <Valen> sadly enough i kinda got used to it rofl
[01:16:02] <Valen> its sad no "fix" has been released for it yet
[01:17:07] <pfred1> I was like why is everyone blue? now I'm glad it isn't just me
[01:17:44] <pfred1> I wonder if gnash does it too?
[01:17:48] <Valen> yeah there is a bug for it
[01:17:56] <Valen> i believe that is another "fix"
[01:18:22] <Valen> its just the way the data is being passed to the hardware playback stuff
[01:18:25] <pfred1> gnash doesn't run too horribly on this machine
[01:18:33] <Valen> somebody made a typo at adobe
[01:18:54] <Valen> its actual compatibility with flash was rather lacking last time i played with it
[01:19:10] <pfred1> gnash?
[01:19:49] <Valen> yeah
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[01:30:05] <Valen> my experience with gnash is quite old though
[01:30:36] <pfred1> last time I ran it it still seemed crippled but it wasn't as crash happy
[01:33:08] <ReadError> pfred1
[01:33:12] <ReadError> you tried chrome?
[01:33:15] <ReadError> it has its own flash
[01:33:32] <pfred1> chromium
[01:33:39] <ReadError> ya
[01:33:51] <ReadError> with hardware accel off?
[01:33:53] <pfred1> chromium isn't exactly chrome
[01:34:12] <ReadError> https://www.google.com/chrome?platform=linux
[01:36:54] <Connor> http://youtu.be/TF8mByQ3F-4?hd=1
[01:37:34] <jdhNC> I like that handle on teh rotary table.
[01:37:41] <Connor> :)
[01:37:49] <Connor> Yea. It's one from the mill.
[01:38:12] <Connor> I didn't have one when it was given to me.. It's not even tight.. it's just press fit ATM.
[01:38:19] <jdhNC> you should get twice that speed on X?
[01:38:21] <Connor> I'm going to put a stepper on it at some point.
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[01:38:32] <Connor> I can push it faster..
[01:38:45] <Connor> I just limited to 80IPM across the board.
[01:39:04] <Connor> It can stall unpredictably in some places..
[01:39:24] <jdhNC> does it bind in places?
[01:39:44] <Connor> I think I was pushing around a 100IPM at one point.. but, when it gets to one side or the other, the weight of the table can cause it to be a littler harder to move.. and thus stalls the stepper.
[01:40:07] <Connor> If you listen, you can hear a little squeak in the background while I'm jogging it around..
[01:40:16] <Connor> not sure what that's about...
[01:40:31] <Connor> I've checked the anti-backlash setscrews and oiled everything good..
[01:40:37] <Connor> gibs are tight..
[01:40:45] <jdhNC> did you pull teh gibs out when you had it apart?
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[01:40:54] <Connor> I've never had it apart.
[01:41:17] <Connor> Was afraid to. :)
[01:41:19] <Valen> if its annything like our mill the gib tightening screws weren't tapped all the way through
[01:41:36] <Valen> they so tightening the screws didn't do anything
[01:41:40] <jdhNC> wish arturo would come up with the manual for this rev c41
[01:41:47] <ReadError> how do you determine a spindle RPM for various materials?
[01:41:51] <ReadError> like plastics and such
[01:41:58] <jdhNC> doesn't seem to make any difference if I have the 12v supply plugged in or not.
[01:42:07] <Valen> oh fwiw blue people is in chrome too
[01:42:13] <Valen> havent turned hw accell off there
[01:43:07] <Valen> ReadError: you look it up from the tool
[01:43:09] <Connor> ReadError: Look in the Machinists handbook to get the base rate, and the use the correct formula for endmill diameter and number of flutes
[01:43:16] <jdhNC> speedtest.net shows 21Mbps down, but youtube stutters and stops every 15 seconds
[01:43:27] <ReadError> oh cool , i do have the handbook
[01:43:36] <ReadError> didnt realize it had all those materials and formulas..
[01:43:41] <Valen> tool manufacturer will have a datasheet that says what cut details their tool wants
[01:43:42] <Connor> I've got it in PDF on my phone. :)
[01:44:01] <Connor> also, lots of phone apps out there.
[01:44:32] <Connor> jdhNC: Trying to figure out were to place my box for the E-Stop.
[01:44:50] <pfred1> Connor what motor drivers do you use geckos?
[01:45:02] <Connor> No, Keling 5056's
[01:45:12] <jdhNC> on the head
[01:45:19] <pfred1> they're great too what voltage?
[01:45:25] <Connor> 50v
[01:45:30] <Connor> Running at 48v
[01:45:38] <jdhNC> how high can you crank your 48v PS?
[01:45:47] <Connor> I didn't check.
[01:45:58] <pfred1> what is the max input on Keling?
[01:46:07] <Connor> 50v
[01:46:15] <jdhNC> mine are 60
[01:46:19] <pfred1> then i guess you're doing what you can do
[01:46:20] <ReadError> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003BIEUZY/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00
[01:46:29] <ReadError> i see nothing, on niagras site either
[01:46:56] <Connor> KL-5056 20-50VDC 5.6A
[01:47:14] <Connor> You can get KL-68522 5.2A 24-60VDC but, they're not in stock.
[01:47:17] <pfred1> Connor OK you monitoring your voltage with more than one axis going?
[01:47:39] <Connor> No. Not monitoring it at all. Why?
[01:47:42] <pfred1> like does your PSU have the amps?
[01:48:09] <Connor> It's a 12.5Amp PSU it should be good.
[01:48:57] <pfred1> ah 5.6 X 3 = 16.8
[01:49:20] <jdhNC> 12 is more than enough
[01:49:43] <pfred1> jdhNC who are you Bill Gates?
[01:49:48] <Connor> pfred1: That assumes that all 3 axis are maxing out the Amps and stalled.
[01:50:04] <jdhNC> pfred1: lemme check my bank balance.
[01:50:09] <pfred1> Connor true I always like to see some safety margin
[01:50:10] <Connor> This was a kit put together by Keling, tested by several people.
[01:50:41] <jdhNC> also tested with a 7.3amp 48V
[01:52:07] <pfred1> those drives have hold current limiters in them anyways
[01:52:35] <Connor> and have 1/2 current mode too when Idle.
[01:52:46] <pfred1> idle would be holding
[01:52:54] <pfred1> that is when your motors draw the most
[01:54:07] <pfred1> steppers are funny if you put an ammeter on them the faster they go the less they draw
[01:54:18] <jdhNC> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYhmtZ4Jsu8&feature=plcp
[01:54:42] <pfred1> which is why they stall out at high speed
[01:55:28] <djdelorie> servos are the other way - the faster they go, the more current they draw
[01:55:39] <pfred1> djdelorie servos are proper motors
[01:55:58] <pfred1> steppers are motors designed in Poland or something
[01:56:31] <jdhNC> connor: how many steps are you running?
[01:56:39] <Connor> 1/8th
[01:56:55] <djdelorie> Connor: what's the linear travel per step for each axis?
[01:57:39] <pfred1> 18^-12
[01:57:50] <djdelorie> miles? millimeters?
[01:58:05] <pfred1> rods
[01:58:12] <Connor> X and Y are 10 turn per Inch. So, at 1/8th stepping.. 0.000625"
[01:58:49] <Connor> Z is 1 inch per 6 turns, so, 0.00375" per step
[01:59:38] <djdelorie> sounds reasonable. Mine was something like 0.000 05 per step at first, wouldn't go at full speed, ended up reducing the microstepping
[01:59:41] <jdhNC> Z should be 0.000104
[02:00:11] <jdhNC> x/y .0000625
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[02:01:08] <Connor> jdhNC: You sure on the Z ?
[02:01:24] <pfred1> some microstepping drivers have as much as a 40% variance between steps
[02:01:37] <jdhNC> 1600 uSteps/rev, 6 revs/inch
[02:01:40] <pfred1> but it isn't cumulative error
[02:02:14] <pfred1> some allegro drivers were really bad that way
[02:02:57] <Connor> that's right.. 9600 steps for the Z.
[02:03:30] <jdhNC> 16000 for x/y
[02:03:37] <Connor> Yup.
[02:03:58] <Connor> jdhNC: You said on the head? Were on the head?
[02:04:00] <jdhNC> you needed another 0 :)
[02:04:10] <Connor> I don't want to block access to the spindle.
[02:04:33] <jdhNC> needs to be in front, easy to see, accessible from both sides
[02:05:05] <Connor> Underneath, ontop, or on the side of the existing control box not good ?
[02:05:08] <pfred1> djdelorie you couldn't get the pulse train out of LinuxCNC?
[02:05:19] <djdelorie> right. my pc has high jitter
[02:05:27] <pfred1> djdelorie atoms rock
[02:05:40] <djdelorie> I have faster machines, they just weren't as readily accessible as the one I picked
[02:05:47] <Connor> 35000 Base thread is about max you can get on a atom though..
[02:06:09] <pfred1> some AMDs post great scores too
[02:06:19] <jdhNC> I'm going to start mine at 8 also, but I don't think it will be much if any better than 2
[02:06:37] <pfred1> Connor most with atoms are getting 5000ns
[02:06:39] <Connor> It's a bit quieter. and smoother.
[02:06:50] <Valen> I had a dual xeon 3ghz
[02:06:53] <Valen> was awesome ;->
[02:07:02] <Valen> i ran the servo thread at 10khz i think lol
[02:07:12] <jdhNC> mine does 5000 also, but I can make it hit 20k+
[02:07:14] <Valen> sounded like a jet taking off
[02:07:51] <Valen> max jitter was 2458
[02:08:46] <Connor> pfred1: Hmm.. I don't have any priapratery video drivers.. wonder why 5000 doesn't play nice..
[02:08:55] <Connor> let me switch to my CNC machine.. back in a min
[02:09:02] <pfred1> djdelorie until you run LinuxCNC on a machine it is hard to say what is faster
[02:09:47] -!- Connor1 [Connor1!~mill@] has joined #linuxcnc
[02:09:52] Connor1 is now known as Connor_CNC
[02:09:59] <djdelorie> this is a 800 mhz pentium III
[02:10:26] <jdhNC> I don't think I ever owned a p3
[02:10:28] <djdelorie> I need to pick a different pc anyway as this one doesn't have USB
[02:10:39] <Valen> with the dual cpu setup and isocpus I didn't have an issue with nvidia binary drivers
[02:10:42] <pfred1> djdelorie I use a 1 GHz P3 and get 18400
[02:11:09] <djdelorie> I get around 20000 but I still get errors when linuxcnc runs. Still works OK though
[02:11:15] <Jymmmm> This is a 486DX25 running realport 3c509 drivers!
[02:11:21] <pfred1> using axis?
[02:11:37] <djdelorie> yeah, axis
[02:11:51] <Aero-Tec> is it hard to convert Gcode for mach to Gcode for EMC?
[02:11:57] <pfred1> GL can be funny on weaker hardware have you tried tkemc?
[02:12:06] <Aero-Tec> I hand write code mostly
[02:12:09] <djdelorie> nope
[02:12:26] <Aero-Tec> anything I should watch for?
[02:12:29] <jdhNC> Aero: load some in axis and see how it looks.
[02:12:30] <pfred1> yeah axis is nice better to just get stronger PC
[02:12:56] -!- Connor1 [Connor1!~mill@] has joined #linuxcnc
[02:13:09] <Connor1> Hmm.. locked up when I did base-thread 5000
[02:13:18] -!- Connor_CNC has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
[02:13:21] <Connor1> You sure it's not 50000 ?
[02:13:24] Connor1 is now known as Connor_CNC
[02:13:37] <Aero-Tec> I know threading is supposed to be a huge difference
[02:13:40] <Jymmmm> djdelorie: you say P3 or P4 ?
[02:13:44] <djdelorie> p3
[02:13:48] <Jymmmm> ah
[02:14:01] <pfred1> Connor1 you have to go with what the machine tests at or find out why it tests high
[02:14:04] <Aero-Tec> also jog is limmited
[02:14:14] <djdelorie> dual core p3, too
[02:14:21] <Valen> HT makes things crap
[02:14:23] <djdelorie> er, sorry, dual CHIP p3. ancient.
[02:14:37] <Valen> real threads with isocpus is good
[02:14:42] <Jymmmm> djdelorie: I have a dual xeon mobo/cpu if you're interested =)
[02:14:48] <pfred1> djdelorie you have one CPU dedicated to the RT?
[02:14:50] <Aero-Tec> on z for the lathe it is about .2 inches total movement
[02:14:58] <Valen> djdelorie: what numbers are you getting? I had a dual chip board and it was great
[02:15:01] <djdelorie> I have faster PCs to use
[02:15:17] <pfred1> well there is a way to dedicate one proc just to LinuxCNC
[02:15:17] <Aero-Tec> how does one set the max movement in EMC?
[02:15:19] <djdelorie> the pc is fast enough to run the cnc machine, it just doesn't have usb
[02:15:29] <Valen> usb card?
[02:15:29] <Connor_CNC> I had HT turned on.. I jut turned it off. This is a Dual Core machine too.. would that cause issues?
[02:15:37] <Valen> HT makes issues
[02:15:38] <djdelorie> Aero-Tec: the min/max values and home switch location are all set in stepconf
[02:15:41] <pfred1> djdelorie what do you need USB for?
[02:15:42] <Valen> dual core is good
[02:15:54] <Connor_CNC> Can you dedicate 1 core to RT ?
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[02:16:06] <djdelorie> the only other way to get the g-code files to that pc is to run an ethernet wire across the shop floor
[02:16:08] <pfred1> Connor_CNC yes there is something on the site about how to set it up
[02:16:16] <Jymmmm> djdelorie: that's dual xeon cpus, not just dual cores =)
[02:16:27] <Aero-Tec> I have no limit/home switches yet
[02:16:27] <pfred1> djdelorie k good reason
[02:16:50] <Connor_CNC> Looks like max jitter is 11111 at the moment.. that's with me opening up chrome and going to do a search.
[02:16:54] <Valen> Connor isocps will do that, i don't recall if its done by default
[02:16:59] <djdelorie> Aero-Tec: you still have to tell stepconf what your min/max are
[02:17:09] <Valen> start glxgears, it might make a spike
[02:17:26] <pfred1> GL is the killer
[02:17:42] <Valen> pfred1: I found that its just starting the gl window that causes the issue
[02:17:44] <Connor_CNC> nope. still under 11111
[02:17:52] <Valen> once that's done its fine
[02:18:27] <Valen> provided you don't decide to start playing quake halfway through milling ;-P
[02:18:53] <pfred1> ascii quake!
[02:20:03] <Valen> there is an ascii viewer for mplayer i think
[02:20:08] <Valen> its actually pretty good
[02:20:16] <pfred1> I think mplayer has ascii output
[02:20:21] <Connor_CNC> can't find anything on isocps
[02:20:37] <jdhNC> isolcpu maybe?
[02:20:42] <Aero-Tec> so what about the threading from mach to EMC?
[02:21:26] <Aero-Tec> heard there was a difference on how they work
[02:22:01] <Aero-Tec> sorry for being a pain and also thanks for all the help
[02:22:44] <Connor_CNC> isolcpu just restricts RT to 1 core..
[02:22:56] <Aero-Tec> will also need to set up back lash
[02:23:26] <jdhNC> connor: how is the backlash?
[02:23:46] <Valen> Connor thats the point
[02:24:01] <Valen> it means the rest of the machine also wont use that
[02:24:18] <pfred1> try it maybe you'll like it
[02:24:24] <Connor_CNC> 0.0051" on X
[02:24:34] <Valen> is it on by default now?
[02:24:40] <Connor_CNC> Z is 0.0037"
[02:24:45] <Connor_CNC> I've not tested Y yet.
[02:24:55] <Connor_CNC> Valen: The core? yes.
[02:25:18] <Valen> i mean isolcpus, i *belive* the current livecd shipps with it set by default
[02:25:50] <Connor_CNC> Oh. I dunno. How can I tell?
[02:26:07] <Valen> its in the grub options somewhere
[02:26:36] <jdhNC> isolcpus=1
[02:27:13] <pfred1> dmesg might have it
[02:27:38] <Connor_CNC> doesn't look like it.
[02:28:14] <pfred1> cat /proc/cmdline
[02:28:43] <Connor_CNC> BOOT_IMAGE=/boot/vmlinuz-2.6.32-122-rtai root=UUID=fee3f726-4e19-4f9a-8665-a50fb18fa38f ro quiet splash
[02:28:54] <Valen> no isolcpus then by the look of things
[02:28:55] <pfred1> well there you have it
[02:29:15] <Valen> pfred1: you know I have been looking for something like that for *ages*
[02:29:18] <pfred1> can't hurt to try
[02:29:34] <pfred1> Valen ya gotta lub the penguin
[02:29:48] <Valen> I do, but all my google fu failed me
[02:30:02] <pfred1> linux show kernel boot parameters
[02:30:06] <pfred1> was how I found it
[02:30:11] <Connor_CNC> rebooting.. brb
[02:30:24] <Valen> so i think Connor wants to edit etc/default/grub then run an update grub
[02:30:41] <pfred1> well grub and grub2 different
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[02:31:54] <pfred1> I need to setup bootchart on this box and check it out
[02:32:09] <Connor_CNC> okay, how do you update grub after making the change ?
[02:32:20] <pfred1> update-grub
[02:32:34] <Connor_CNC> okay. rebooting
[02:32:40] -!- Connor_CNC has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
[02:33:09] <pfred1> least i thnk been a long time since I've manually done it
[02:33:22] <Valen> guess we'll find out ey ;->
[02:33:26] * pfred1 uses the debian way of doing kernels anymore
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[02:33:40] <pfred1> dpkg -i
[02:33:59] <pfred1> always scary to delete my running kernel
[02:34:25] <jdhNC> that's why we have backups of eveyrthing that counts.
[02:34:41] <pfred1> I think there may be a point where a backup won't help you
[02:34:59] <jdhNC> sure it will. after you do a fresh install, you reload all your stuff.
[02:35:06] <pfred1> oh i see
[02:35:18] <pfred1> yeah you can repair a fubared grub
[02:35:22] <pfred1> but it is a pain
[02:35:43] <jdhNC> just boot a livecd or mini-linux
[02:35:53] <pfred1> that is part of it
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[02:36:25] <pfred1> you have to chroot
[02:36:32] <Valen> Connor1 did you b0rk it?
[02:36:45] <Valen> pfred1: and dont forget to mount /proc etc into the chroot before hand
[02:36:46] <Connor1> No. Just rebooted
[02:36:53] Connor1 is now known as Connor_CNC
[02:37:00] <Connor_CNC> not sure it made much of a difference.
[02:37:04] <pfred1> Connor1 are you ioscling?
[02:37:28] <Connor_CNC> Kernel command line: BOOT_IMAGE=/boot/vmlinuz-2.6.32-122-rtai ro quiet splash isolcpus=1
[02:37:36] <pfred1> sure looks like it
[02:37:58] <Connor_CNC> It's at 9994 ATM
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[02:38:16] <pfred1> see if it isn't spiky
[02:38:18] <Connor_CNC> with glxgears running, Pidgin and Chrome up
[02:38:42] <pfred1> I'd say 10K latency is pretty good
[02:38:53] <Connor_CNC> Yea. I'm setting it to 15000 to be safe.
[02:38:58] <jdhNC> dd a big file
[02:39:41] <pfred1> go for 11K and just keep an eye on it
[02:39:43] <r00tCNC> hey im runnign the stepconf wizard, for Driver Type do I leave at Other for TB6560?
[02:39:58] <jdhNC> other is fine, put in your numbers
[02:40:14] <r00tCNC> thats was my next question
[02:40:30] <Connor_CNC> What does it matter at this point if it's driving the steppers correctly ?
[02:40:33] <jdhNC> one of the other options had all the step/dir pins that matched my tb. I think it was the xylotex
[02:40:46] <jdhNC> connor: it doesn't. Fast enough is fast enough
[02:40:54] <pfred1> Connor_CNC yeah i guess if you're getting the pulse train you need
[02:41:16] <Connor_CNC> Just got a RAPI Delay on starting EMC.. at 15000
[02:41:17] <Connor_CNC> ugg
[02:41:21] <Connor_CNC> taking it to 20000
[02:41:35] <pfred1> OK do this
[02:41:49] <pfred1> tail -f /var/log/syslog
[02:41:50] <r00tCNC> pfred1, where do I get my numbers?
[02:41:59] <pfred1> see if you can catch what is causing it
[02:42:09] <jdhNC> from the spec sheet that came with the board
[02:42:34] <pfred1> r00tCNC what jdhNC says
[02:42:44] <r00tCNC> i didnt get a spec sheet
[02:42:53] <jdhNC> did you get a URL to one?
[02:42:55] <pfred1> you must have gotten something
[02:43:05] <Connor_CNC> RTAPI: ERROR: Unexpected realtime delay on task 1
[02:43:14] <Valen> Connor thats what I see when i start an opengl window
[02:43:18] <r00tCNC> i got no documentation or cd, was suppose to get a cd i guess
[02:43:20] <Valen> not just having glx running
[02:43:23] <Valen> just starting it
[02:43:36] <Valen> after its running you can plot latency in axis
[02:43:45] <Valen> see what it looks like there perhaps
[02:43:48] <pfred1> r00tCNC well you can probably download it then
[02:44:25] <pfred1> Connor_CNC I'm with Valen one spike on start isn't a show stopper
[02:44:57] <Valen> we've been running with it like that for ages, 30K spike on start, regular running is ~4000
[02:45:16] <pfred1> yeah just don't start the app while you're running the app
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[02:46:34] <Connor_CNC> Dinner time, back in a bit
[02:47:52] <pfred1> r00tCNC do you have a link to the brand board you have?
[02:48:34] <r00tCNC> sec
[02:49:19] <r00t4rd3d> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320878949251
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[02:49:39] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.goodluckbuy.com/upload/uploads/file/Tb6560ahq.pdf
[02:50:10] <r00t4rd3d> they link to that datasheet but im still looking for those numbers
[02:50:25] <pfred1> that is just the IC
[02:51:06] <r00t4rd3d> ffs
[02:51:41] <pfred1> dang it has nichicon caps
[02:53:32] <pfred1> r00t4rd3d do yourself a favor and never run 36 volts into this driver
[02:53:39] <jdhNC> min step pulse is 30uS
[02:54:13] <r00t4rd3d> I have a 24v 15a power supply
[02:54:20] <pfred1> yeah that is fine
[02:54:26] <jdhNC> heh, 15 amps for a TB6560
[02:54:45] <pfred1> they can draw 3 amps a piece
[02:54:46] <r00tCNC> thats what they recommended
[02:55:03] <r00tCNC> for nema 23 motors
[02:55:10] <jdhNC> gecko suggests 60% of total
[02:57:40] <r00tCNC> i emailed the sellar and asked for the cd contents to me emailed to me
[03:02:24] <r00tCNC> http://www.georgegardner.info/software/tb6560-ebay-3-axis-driver-and-linuxcnc-emc.html
[03:02:30] <r00tCNC> ha
[03:03:04] <r00tCNC> he didnt know what to use for those numbers so he just left them
[03:04:07] <pfred1> r00tCNC this is what you need http://www.georgegardner.info/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Screenshot-1.png
[03:06:12] <pfred1> r00tCNC also never disconnect a motor wire while the drive is powered up
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[03:06:48] <pfred1> you will let the magical smoke out of your board
[03:18:48] <r00t4rd3d> is it possible to setup and test just one axis at a time
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[03:20:37] <r00t4rd3d> well i guess i could just not hook the motors up and just enter what ever for the numbers
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[03:21:42] <pfred1> r00t4rd3d you can do that but even if you get them wrong the motors will just act strange you won't blow anything up
[03:22:23] <pfred1> step and dir signals are electrically similar just different timings
[03:23:11] <pfred1> on thing i had to do was use a 5000ns timing pulse with my drivers or they wouldn't run right
[03:23:22] <pfred1> might just be my drivers though
[03:26:25] <Jymmmm> r00t4rd3d: Those current percentages I believe are for when the motors are idle.
[03:26:40] <Jymmmm> r00t4rd3d: aka "holding current"
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[03:42:08] <r00t4rd3d> in the morning i am going to test the controller, power supply and motors
[03:45:38] <pfred1> just remember to turn power off before you move motor wires
[03:52:50] <r00t4rd3d> are nichicon caps good or bad?
[03:52:53] <r00t4rd3d> bad i take it
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[04:10:43] <Jymmmm> r00t4rd3d: Did you hear what pfred1 said???
[04:10:53] <ReadError> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0844760/
[04:11:02] <Jymmmm> r00t4rd3d: Did you hear what pfred1 said???
[04:11:03] <ReadError> cutting tomorrow ;)
[04:11:05] <Jymmmm> r00t4rd3d: Did you hear what pfred1 said???
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[04:11:42] <ReadError> http://p.twimg.com/Ar8VkYmCAAAJKhu.jpg:large
[04:11:44] <ReadError> derp
[04:11:45] <ReadError> that
[04:13:04] <Jymmmm> r00t4rd3d: You will INSTANTLY blow your shit up if you don't
[04:16:58] <pfred1> I like nichicons
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[04:21:34] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.cnn.com/2012/05/02/us/new-york-the-scream/index.html?hpt=hp_t1
[04:21:38] <r00t4rd3d> people are morons
[04:22:25] <r00t4rd3d> 120million for what looks like a crayon drawing
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[04:22:41] <Jymmmm> r00t4rd3d: Did you hear what pfred1 said???
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[04:23:10] <r00t4rd3d> really man?
[04:23:34] <r00t4rd3d> yeah i did
[04:23:37] <r00t4rd3d> yeah i did
[04:23:38] <r00t4rd3d> yeah i did
[04:23:38] <r00t4rd3d> yeah i did
[04:23:39] <r00t4rd3d> yeah i did
[04:23:56] <ReadError> r00t4rd3d,
[04:23:59] <ReadError> where the pics at?
[04:24:37] <r00t4rd3d> i dont really have anything new to picture
[04:24:39] <Jymmmm> r00t4rd3d: yeah, really. I've said it FOUR TIMES to watchout for your shit, no benefit to me at all. yet you don't acknowledge what pfred1 or I said to HELP *YOU* out, but if you want to be a smartass about it, fine... GOOD LUCK !
[04:24:50] <r00t4rd3d> wow
[04:33:02] <pfred1> the trouble with art is it is rarely worth much while the artist is alive
[04:33:32] <Aero-Tec> it is over priced most of the time
[04:33:34] <pfred1> unless you're Thomas Kincade
[04:33:44] <Valen> can art be "over priced"?
[04:33:56] <Valen> you can't actually put a value on it
[04:34:04] <pfred1> sure you can
[04:34:14] <Aero-Tec> why some want to pay what they pay is beyond me
[04:34:22] <Valen> how much is an art?
[04:34:35] <Jymmmm> Valen: Ask PT Barnum
[04:34:42] <Aero-Tec> lol
[04:35:09] <Aero-Tec> it is worth what you can sucker someone to pay for it
[04:35:18] <Valen> but thats what *everything* is worth
[04:35:32] <Jymmmm> Aero-Tec: (you're the first person to every catch that =)
[04:35:38] <Jymmmm> s/every/ever/
[04:35:54] <Valen> often people get better deals than a manufacturer would like ;-P
[04:36:36] <pfred1> I like to think I do OK
[04:37:03] <pfred1> the PC I'm on now I paid $67 for
[04:37:12] <Jymmmm> you goto the termnially ill section of the hospotal with paint and canvases, then collect profits on the "art" they create when you sell it off as their dead
[04:37:13] <Aero-Tec> a good cnc machine is worth good money, it will make back the investment meny times over and still keep chugging out the money
[04:37:38] <Aero-Tec> lol
[04:37:48] <Aero-Tec> now that thinking
[04:38:04] <Aero-Tec> instant increase in value
[04:38:06] <Jymmmm> Aero-Tec: No, it's the PERSON that knows how to use the tools that will do that, the machine just sits there =)
[04:38:32] <Aero-Tec> true
[04:38:34] <Jymmmm> Aero-Tec: you see that guy with no arms making stools?
[04:39:02] <Aero-Tec> no I did not
[04:39:59] <pfred1> oh wait I didn't include what I paid for the speakers $68 dollars
[04:40:05] <Jymmmm> I'll look for the video later, but he uses his feet to saw wood, swing a hammer driving nails, run a small wood lathe, and a rotarary sander.
[04:41:15] <Aero-Tec> with art you can not get it to pay for it's self several times over no matter how talented you are, unless your a master BSer and can con someone into paying more then you did
[04:41:38] <pfred1> Aero-Tec I bought a Picasso for 75 cents
[04:42:08] <pfred1> I could probably get a few grand for it today
[04:42:19] <Aero-Tec> that is more them I would have paid, unless I could sell it for a profit
[04:42:52] <pfred1> I donno it is kind of nice
[04:42:56] <Aero-Tec> you have to pay some art expert to authenticate it, so more $$
[04:42:58] <pfred1> Don Quixote
[04:43:06] <pfred1> no it is the real thing
[04:43:20] <Aero-Tec> then hope and pray he says it is real
[04:43:44] <Aero-Tec> I like tec and machines
[04:43:44] <pfred1> it is what it is
[04:44:03] <Aero-Tec> things I know
[04:44:16] <Aero-Tec> art is a world onto its self
[04:44:24] <Aero-Tec> not into it at all
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[04:44:42] <pfred1> I like to draw and paint
[04:45:10] <Aero-Tec> anyways I am installing the latest live CD
[04:45:34] <Aero-Tec> will need to know how to setup backlash
[04:45:48] <Aero-Tec> hope to use the lathe tonight
[04:45:54] <pfred1> beats me I used HDPE nuts
[04:46:12] <pfred1> they got the grip of death
[04:46:19] <Aero-Tec> how well do they work?
[04:46:26] <pfred1> pretty good
[04:46:34] <Aero-Tec> big machine?
[04:46:41] <Aero-Tec> lathe or mill
[04:46:47] <pfred1> no router
[04:47:03] <Aero-Tec> ok so no steel cutting
[04:47:08] <pfred1> no
[04:47:48] <pfred1> my mill has tons of backlash
[04:47:56] <Aero-Tec> lol
[04:48:01] <Aero-Tec> sounds like mine
[04:48:15] <pfred1> an RF-32
[04:48:24] <Aero-Tec> I need to upgrade to ball screws
[04:48:37] <pfred1> if you do you can't use it by hand anymore
[04:48:39] <Aero-Tec> soon I hope
[04:48:51] <pfred1> unless you have 3 arms
[04:48:57] <Aero-Tec> lol
[04:49:50] <Aero-Tec> did you buy the nuts or cast them your self?
[04:50:01] <pfred1> I tapped them
[04:50:39] <Aero-Tec> acme thread?
[04:50:48] <pfred1> http://www.instructables.com/id/Make-an-Acme-Tap/
[04:53:02] <pfred1> there are some pretty rough looking homemade acme taps out there on the net
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[04:56:58] <Aero-Tec> you used acme ready rod?
[04:57:26] <Aero-Tec> or some may call it threaded rod
[04:57:45] <pfred1> acme is not all thread
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[05:06:40] <Jymmmm> Threaded rod (that you can buy at your local hardware store) has points for the peaks and valleys... http://i01.i.aliimg.com/photo/v0/105035101/Threaded_Rod_cut_to_size.jpg
[05:07:06] <Jymmmm> ACME has FLATs http://www.woodworkingonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/acme-thread-0043.jpg
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[05:07:59] <Jymmmm> Aero-Tec: FYI ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
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[05:15:17] <Connor_CNC> I think I messed up my speed controller on my mill
[05:15:42] <Connor_CNC> It's running wide open no matter what I do.. and when I switch to CNC mode, it runs doesn't do anything.
[05:17:04] <pfred1> http://fritzing.org/projects/the-shy-dildo/
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[05:27:23] <Valen> pfred1: do i want to know why/how you found that? ;->
[05:29:36] <pfred1> Valen I was on instructables and saw a link to this fritzing stuff went to the project page and started browsing
[05:29:45] <Valen> sure sure ;->
[05:30:04] <pfred1> this fritzing stuff looks pretty cool
[05:30:13] * pfred1 loves to breadboard
[05:30:56] <pfred1> http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/7615/p7100104.jpg
[05:31:17] <pfred1> I got a little carried away there
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[05:57:58] <Aero-Tec> ok, got my lathe back up and running
[05:58:27] <Aero-Tec> the reinstall did the update of emc and fixed my password problem
[06:00:13] <Jymmmm> reinstall of what?
[06:01:13] <Jymmmm> the whole OS ?
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[06:08:14] <Aero-Tec> yes
[06:08:24] <Aero-Tec> downloaded the new live CD
[06:08:31] <Aero-Tec> and installed it
[06:09:31] <Aero-Tec> bed time
[06:09:41] <Jymmmm> G'Night =)
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[07:14:14] <DJ9DJ> moin
[07:14:25] <Jymmmm> GN(
[07:14:28] <Jymmmm> GN9
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[07:16:01] <Jymmmm> DJ9DJ: kidding =)
[07:16:14] <DJ9DJ> hi Jymmmm :)
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[08:35:23] <alex4nder> hey
[08:35:37] <Valen> zup
[08:36:56] <DJ9DJ> hi there
[08:39:54] <Tom_itx> somebody must keep the candle lit at all times
[08:42:36] <alex4nder> yes
[08:43:02] <alex4nder> what's going on?
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[08:46:20] <Valen> I'm looking for a source of pullys that is cheapish
[08:46:26] <Valen> block/tackle style
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[08:50:33] <Jymmmm> Valen: cheap? plastic?
[08:50:57] <Valen> yeah, only after a SWL of ~150kg
[08:51:17] <Jymmmm> Valen: try any boating/marine supply.
[08:51:29] <Valen> they all seem expensive
[08:51:31] <Valen> $30+
[08:51:45] <Jymmmm> yeah, brass, seawater, etc
[08:51:56] <Valen> stainless and plastic actually
[08:51:57] <Jymmmm> how many you need?
[08:52:05] <Valen> 4 would do i blieve
[08:52:08] <Valen> believe
[08:52:19] <Valen> I want to be able to move the 150kg easily
[08:52:25] <Jymmmm> climbing supply
[08:52:26] <Valen> doing a "gearing"
[08:52:33] <Valen> do climbers use pullys?
[08:52:38] <Jymmmm> yeah
[08:52:49] <Jymmmm> Valen: where are you?
[08:52:57] <Valen> sydney australia
[08:53:00] <Valen> things you learn
[08:53:52] <Jymmmm> http://www.rei.com/category/4500697
[08:54:28] <Jymmmm> Valen: mind you, they are intended to be used with locking carabiners too
[08:54:44] <Valen> I cant actually see that web site for some reason
[08:54:56] <Jymmmm> I can't emphises the LOCKING part
[08:55:54] <Jymmmm> http://www.amazon.com/b?ie=UTF8&node=3402641
[08:55:56] <Jymmmm> try that
[08:56:04] <Jymmmm> or google 'climbing pulleys'
[08:57:15] <Jymmmm> Valen: it might get expensive if you dont already have the locking carabiners,
[08:57:44] <Valen> locking = screw up lock part right?
[08:57:51] <Jymmmm> correct
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[08:58:25] <Valen> didn't think they were outragous,
[08:58:35] <Valen> I see them in stainless for ~$10 or so as i recall?
[08:58:35] <alex4nder> got the case for my mini-itx board
[08:58:40] <alex4nder> it's sick
[08:59:11] <Jymmmm> Valen: look at the photo... http://www.amazon.com/Rothco-Black-80-mm-Locking-Carabiner/dp/B000E96RQI/ref=sr_1_10?s=outdoor-recreation&ie=UTF8&qid=1336035505&sr=1-10
[08:59:40] <Valen> yeah Ive seen them before
[08:59:52] <Jymmmm> Valen: did you read what it says?
[08:59:58] <Valen> yes
[09:00:04] <Valen> i read every single word on the page
[09:00:18] <Jymmmm> Valen: NOT FOR CLIMBING
[09:00:25] <Valen> so?
[09:00:30] <Valen> i'm not climbing with it
[09:00:35] <Jymmmm> it's not rated for weight
[09:00:43] <Jymmmm> or shock
[09:02:17] <Jymmmm> Valen: I think this is one that I have http://www.amazon.com/Black-Diamond-Positron-Screwgate-Carabiner/dp/B000CC1ANM/ref=sr_1_6?s=outdoor-recreation&ie=UTF8&qid=1336035505&sr=1-6
[09:02:22] <Valen> http://www.kfd.com.au/shop/item/spring-self-locking-stainless-steel-80mm-carabina will be more than sufficent i think
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[09:03:20] <Jymmmm> That doens't look climbing rated
[09:03:28] <Valen> it isnt
[09:03:58] <Valen> but since i'm not going rock climbing with it and its made of rather beefy stainless it will probably do the job
[09:04:30] <Jymmmm> it's not ther material, you could use aluminum for that matter, it's the construction
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[09:19:21] <archivist> Valen, cheap engine lift block and tackle
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[09:21:25] <Valen> archivist: the suspension point is already in place
[09:21:39] <Valen> but i was thinking about using a chain block
[09:21:49] <archivist> ebay rope hoist
[09:22:15] <archivist> some in usa at £12 ish
[09:23:07] <archivist> hard to get cheaper than 190537025459
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[09:27:26] <Valen> i also want it for next weekend ;->
[09:27:43] <Valen> its an art install so it needs to look good too ;->
[09:28:02] <archivist> I bet there is a local chinese importer
[09:28:02] <Valen> that thing does look good though
[09:28:16] <Valen> but I reckon their 180kg is the breaking strain of that rope
[09:29:01] <archivist> and then multiplied by the number of ropes between the pulleys
[09:29:10] <Valen> I'm liking the look of this though http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/LARGE-OLD-STEEL-PULLEY-BLOCK-HOOK-Ropelock-Brand-/280869730188?pt=AU_ToolsHardwareLocks&hash=item416523f78c#ht_500wt_1413
[09:29:40] <Valen> though with a grease nipple I'm thinking the friction could be kinda high
[09:29:48] <Valen> still no worries about the load rating lol
[09:30:01] <archivist> need a pair though
[09:30:07] <Valen> true
[09:30:16] <Valen> but it does a great job on the asthetic
[09:31:20] <Valen> crap this would be ideal http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Block-and-Tackle-Rope-Pulley-workshop-garage-work-tool-hoist-mechanic-/180871929258?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2a1cce9daa#ht_602wt_1398
[09:32:04] <archivist> I just saw that, go and haggle
[09:32:13] <Valen> its about 1500km from me
[09:32:25] <Valen> you know half way into the next state ;-P
[09:32:37] <Valen> he says local pickup only
[09:32:47] <Valen> I'd hate to think what the shipping would be lol
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[09:34:00] <archivist> just up the road!
[09:34:08] <Valen> it is actually
[09:34:19] <Valen> 4 sets of lights give or take
[09:35:38] <archivist> but anyway...you have a cnc make one
[09:35:50] <Valen> I am probably going to make the swivel
[09:36:08] <Valen> using some wheel bearings for the actual spinny bit
[09:38:19] <Valen> (as in bearings in car wheels)
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[09:40:46] <Valen> cheapest way to get tapered roller bearings ;->
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[09:42:41] <Thetawaves> i found a wide variety on ebay
[09:42:45] <Thetawaves> some months ago
[09:43:04] <Valen> bearings or blocks?
[09:43:21] <Thetawaves> the bearing and the cup
[09:43:32] <Valen> cup?
[09:43:44] <Thetawaves> that the tapered bearings slide in
[09:44:02] <Valen> havent heard of one
[09:44:28] <Thetawaves> http://www.vxb.com/page/bearings/PROD/Kit11887?gclid=CMm0ha_q468CFcIFRQodgSmYDQ
[09:44:30] <Thetawaves> bearing, and the cup
[09:44:55] <Valen> I just presumed that the whole thing was one assembly and one would purchase it as such
[09:45:29] <Thetawaves> right, the cup is made to match the bearing exactly
[09:45:58] <Valen> its a hamburger and chips vs a happymeal
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[09:46:27] <Thetawaves> oh?
[09:46:53] <Valen> if they are matched, i would just say buying the bearing not buying the bearing and a cup for it
[09:47:22] <Valen> to take it to the extreme i bought the rollers, a raceway, a cone and a cup
[09:47:28] <Valen> all in one easy purchase
[09:47:31] <Thetawaves> yeah, sometimes i focus on irrelevant details
[09:47:55] <Thetawaves> i just wanted to clarify that the cup is not a 'block'
[09:48:11] <Valen> ahh no i am using block as in block and tackle
[09:48:14] <Valen> pulley
[09:48:18] <Thetawaves> oh
[09:48:43] <Valen> still i now have more terminology to throw around, thats always handy
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[10:57:57] <Loetmichel> mornin
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[11:40:33] <r00t4rd3d> 14,637 results found for
[11:40:33] <r00t4rd3d> osama bin laden
[11:40:38] <r00t4rd3d> Ebay.
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[12:09:05] <jthornton> make up your mind
[12:11:39] <archivist> that happens when a user chooses someone else's registered nick
[12:12:45] <jthornton> ahh
[12:13:08] <Jymmmm> jthornton: Fine, "I want a grande latte, skinny, half caf and half de-caf, with mocha almond, caramel flavor, grande, with room for cream, whipped cream with sprinkles on top"
[12:13:31] <jthornton> do I need to make a make file to have asciidoc do it's magic on all the files in a directory?
[12:13:42] <jthornton> Jymmmm, you get it black and hot here
[12:14:17] <Jymmmm> jthornton: And thus why it was in quotes =)
[12:15:33] <Jymmmm> jthornton: Oh, the other day I found Nescafe Instant coffee + Creamer + Sugar pre-mixed in individual packets, kinda cool.
[12:16:01] <jthornton> if you like that I guess it is
[12:16:30] <Jymmmm> jthornton: Well, good for on he go, backpacking, etc
[12:17:01] <archivist> jthornton, has the asciidoc stuff not been added to the main makefiles?
[12:17:46] <jthornton> I'm creating a html from asciidoc for some strange reason and want to build them like the linuxcnc docs do
[12:18:31] <archivist> ah, then copy said method :)
[12:19:13] <jthornton> I shall give that a try to see what breaks LOL
[12:20:11] <jthornton> hmmm, it is a Submakefile
[12:20:45] <jthornton> with 837 lines of code :-(
[12:20:58] <Jymmmm> jthornton: SWPadnos_ was telling me that instant coffee is "the norm" outside of north america, even in high end hotels and such.
[12:21:03] <jthornton> some of which I understand and some I don't
[12:21:29] <archivist> jthornton, gitweb link dead at http://linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/download
[12:22:31] <jthornton> seems to be borked
[12:23:36] <jthornton> still has emc2 in the link http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=linuxcnc.git;a=summary
[12:26:26] <jthornton> wow I did something besides san bammers today... reload the page and try again
[12:29:49] <jthornton> maybe someone will happen by and give me a hint to get some.txt files to run through asciidoc with a make file...
[12:32:22] <archivist> some copy past from the asciidoc makefile and you will be partly on your way
[12:34:03] <archivist> it mostly works with generic rules so will be a good starting point
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[12:49:12] <jthornton> problem is I don't know what part to copy, I know file names need to be in one section and it builds pdf's too but I can't figure out what line builds the html docs
[12:50:29] <jthornton> it looks like all the .txt file names are stored in a variable or something called DOC_SRCS
[12:50:55] <jthornton> DOC_SRCS := \ code/Code_Notes.txt \
[12:52:01] <archivist> most are rules which will be applied to what it finds in the directory
[12:52:10] <Jymmmm> looks like relative path to a file called 'Code_Notes.txt'
[12:52:12] <archivist> line 1 DOCS_EN := $(patsubst %.txt,%,$(wildcard *.txt */*.txt))
[12:52:38] <archivist> lines 33,34
[12:53:10] <archivist> I would just copy the lot and tias
[12:53:38] <jthornton> hmm I think your looking at a different file than me
[12:54:02] <archivist> http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=linuxcnc.git;a=blob;f=docs/src/Makefile;h=277ae6391b324aff243dc39d166580355f9f0196;hb=1f30f27f1b32d9fbbb3bfab5a3b4ce26a1d1954f
[12:55:52] <jthornton> found it, I was looking at the Submakefile
[12:56:01] <archivist> if I followed links correctly that should be the one for 2.5, version tag aught to be on the page
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[13:03:57] <jthornton> this is what I have so far http://pastebin.com/00d542fq
[13:05:04] <jthornton> I get this make: *** No rule to make target `xref_en.links', needed by `html'. Stop.
[13:08:55] <jdhNC> do you have to do something to make the .links files, or do they just exist?
[13:10:39] <jthornton> I don't have a clue
[13:12:17] <jdhNC> does xref_en.links exist?
[13:13:23] <jthornton> no
[13:14:10] <jthornton> it seems to come from the submakefile
[13:15:53] <jthornton> ok, this is almost making sense on the last line that has asciidoc -a
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[14:17:24] <Aero-Tec> if I want to put a linux machine on a windows network, what would be the best way to go?
[14:17:50] <jdhNC> ethernet
[14:18:04] <DJ9DJ> hrhr
[14:18:18] <Aero-Tec> have that
[14:18:23] <Aero-Tec> they are conected
[14:18:33] <DJ9DJ> maybe samba?
[14:18:34] <awallin> samba for file sharing
[14:18:48] <jdhNC> set samba to use the same workgroup name you use for everything else. It's mostly transparent
[14:19:04] <Aero-Tec> cool
[14:19:06] <Aero-Tec> thanks
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[14:20:42] <archivist> I normally set web servers up on the boxes as well for one way shares and other stuff
[14:21:42] <jdhNC> I've been using a 1tb disk hooked up to my router for sharing stuff.
[14:22:29] <jdhNC> wonder if I can mount that under my google drive dir on my winbox
[14:22:53] <Jymmm> 'google drive' ?
[14:23:25] <jdhNC> it's like gmail, except instead of just mining your email for info to sell, they can mine all your data!
[14:24:59] <Valen> pfft
[14:25:01] <Valen> sell?
[14:25:18] <Valen> if you store the plans for your cold fusion device on there
[14:25:23] <jdhNC> they certainly aren't giving it away.
[14:25:29] <Valen> expect to be buying google electricity in a few years
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[14:25:53] <Valen> the TOS for it says whatever you store on there is googles property basically
[14:26:15] <archivist> google will be looking at my emails thinking what the hell can we sell him...no money
[14:30:41] <jdhNC> if you are offered a product for 'free', then you aren't a customer, you are the product.
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[15:16:44] <gene__> Michael, are you about?
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[15:25:53] <skunkworks> gene__: I just emailed the list - but I was wondering - is there a reason why you cannot use 2.5?
[15:29:20] <cradek> yes I tested 2.5.0 and it lets you queue mdi commands. I have always used simple mdi commands but as mh points out if you combine mdi queueing with o-call you might get surprises.
[15:34:24] <skunkworks> I vaguely remember that gene may have wanted some of the o-word fixes that micheal had done... which is unfortunate...
[15:34:56] <skunkworks> because I think that is what caused the non que'ing issue.
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[15:35:52] <skunkworks> (but that is just a vague recollection..)
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[15:56:03] <pcw_home> (thats all I have anymore)
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[16:36:28] <skunkworks> hear! here! (that way I am 50% correct) ;)
[16:39:02] <alex4nder> hey
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[17:27:27] * archivist is looking for a manual for a Barber Colman Type S gear hobber , just a wish, can always take it to bits to see how it works
[17:34:39] <IchGuckLive> archivist: http://www.bourn-koch.com/pages_blocks_v3_exp/images/links/BCreman.jpg somthing like this
[17:36:43] <archivist> IchGuckLive, more like http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g8/lvanice/PM/BarberColmanS3.jpg
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[17:40:24] <archivist> I got close enough to mine today to get the model number and a pic
[17:40:26] <archivist> http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2012/2012_05_03_Barber_Colman_Type_S/IMG_1234.JPG
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[17:45:18] <andypugh> Is that something ancient labelled "Modern" in the background?
[17:46:22] <archivist> that is the 1940's adcock and shipley horizontal mill
[17:47:13] <archivist> http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2011/2011_07_13_Adcock_and_Shipley/
[17:52:26] <IchGuckLive> nice part archivist fully manuell x and A
[17:53:07] <IchGuckLive> are the gearsystems also in th box for the main gearspaces 40,20,15
[17:54:52] <archivist> the hobber has a number of change gear positions but came without change wheels, may cnc it
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[17:55:11] <IchGuckLive> the lever parallel to the part shifts to the next gear and the lever (Bigone ) runs the tool to the part
[17:55:47] <IchGuckLive> archivist: nice worm for it
[17:56:15] <IchGuckLive> this mashine wiorks best with a airsystem not cnc is best
[17:56:46] <IchGuckLive> then you can make parts in mass
[17:57:29] <IchGuckLive> a 2bar pressurised cylinder pushes the main and a littel one gives the grear shift
[17:57:58] <IchGuckLive> 4 lowcost switchse control the vent block and you are happy done
[17:58:08] <IchGuckLive> 50USD
[17:58:58] <IchGuckLive> the littel one on 6Bar so it makes klick klack
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[18:22:42] <Aero-Tec> so emc 2.3 2.4 and 2.5, is there much of a difference between them?
[18:23:01] <IchGuckLive> Aero-Tec: yes
[18:23:05] <pcw_home> .2 and .1
[18:23:23] <IchGuckLive> Aero-Tec: im working wright now on a airfol mashine
[18:23:43] <Aero-Tec> I have some old boxes with floppy drives
[18:24:10] <Aero-Tec> not sure if they will run the latest and greatest
[18:24:32] <Aero-Tec> .2 and .1, smart a$$
[18:24:34] <Aero-Tec> lol
[18:24:40] <IchGuckLive> take the live cd and check
[18:24:55] <Aero-Tec> that is a idea
[18:26:03] <IchGuckLive> Aero-Tec: i make a screenshot one moment
[18:26:04] <Aero-Tec> so what are the highlights with the different versions?
[18:26:44] <IchGuckLive> the live cd has 2.4.3 on it
[18:26:51] <cradek> Aero-Tec: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Released
[18:27:20] <Aero-Tec> BTW how does one find out what processor is in the machine with linux?
[18:27:44] <cradek> cat /proc/cpuinfo
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[18:29:16] <Aero-Tec> cool thanks
[18:29:46] <Aero-Tec> that is some list of changes
[18:29:49] <IchGuckLive> Aero-Tec: http://mechmo.de/Bild81.jpg
[18:30:15] <Aero-Tec> no idea what most are, but someone has been a busy beaver
[18:31:06] <IchGuckLive> Aero-Tec: witch country are you from
[18:31:38] <Aero-Tec> the land of the beaver
[18:31:39] <Aero-Tec> lol
[18:31:51] <Aero-Tec> hows it going ahh
[18:31:55] <IchGuckLive> Canada french or english side
[18:32:08] <Aero-Tec> west coast
[18:32:14] <Aero-Tec> all eng
[18:32:32] <Aero-Tec> do not know any fr
[18:32:47] <IchGuckLive> ok im off By O.O B)
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[18:32:58] <Aero-Tec> where are you from?
[18:34:05] <Aero-Tec> to bad he left, wanted to ask him about the airfoil program he has
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[18:42:32] <andypugh> IchGuck.. was slightly wrong, the LiveCD has 2.5 on it, if you get the correct LiveCD.
[18:43:38] <archivist> I switch off when he rambles
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[18:46:29] <jdhNC> how recent of a livecd?
[18:47:51] <andypugh> If the filename says LinuxCNC, then it is 2.5. For example: http://linuxcnc.org/iso/ubuntu-10.04-linuxcnc2-i386.iso
[18:49:01] <jdhNC> mine is linuxnc1 I got on 3/30 but I don't think it had 2.5
[18:49:15] <jdhNC> who pays for linuxcnc.org?
[18:50:06] <andypugh> Nobody, and everybody.
[18:50:18] * jdhNC sees no 'donate' link and ceases feeling guilty.
[18:50:39] <skunkworks> I donate by beta testing...
[18:50:42] <andypugh> I have never seen this before, a speed-reducer that goes in front of the spindle: http://www.lathes.co.uk/holbrook/page4.html
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[18:55:14] <andypugh> archivist! http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Boley-Watchmakers-Lathe-/270965077040
[18:56:58] <archivist> does not look very watchmakers to me
[18:57:21] <andypugh> No, but it looks quite nice, and isn't horribly expensive
[18:58:26] <archivist> my current finances makes it horribly expensive
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[18:59:43] <archivist> looks like a manual production tool for a simple op
[19:01:01] <andypugh> Yes. Probably very high quality, but rather limited.
[19:01:41] <archivist> the boley jig mill we had at the last job was very good for certain work
[19:02:11] <archivist> a sod for other work though
[19:03:12] <archivist> ex boss would not let me bring it home http://www.archivist.info/cnc/works2008/P1010207.JPG
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[19:03:54] <archivist> xy on top of a rotary on top of another slide
[19:04:34] <andypugh> I think I have seen it before
[19:04:52] <archivist> likely
[19:05:08] <archivist> I want one!
[19:07:16] <andypugh> There are some relatively inexpensive big chucks on the eBay right now, £300 for a 410mm one
[19:13:19] <archivist> ooh shiny 280874358293
[19:14:48] <andypugh> Oooh! bulky
[19:15:34] <archivist> only 3 tons!
[19:17:28] <r00t4rd3d> lighter then your wife~
[19:17:30] <r00t4rd3d> !
[19:18:04] <archivist> impossible...no wife!
[19:18:11] <r00t4rd3d> boy friend~
[19:18:13] <r00t4rd3d> !
[19:18:17] <r00t4rd3d> stupid console key
[19:18:29] <r00t4rd3d> how the hell i do that twice in a row
[19:19:11] <archivist> already over priced 290707135233
[19:19:36] * JT-Shop-2 runs and hides from fleabay watching
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[19:20:03] <archivist> you know you want to!
[19:20:43] <JT-Shop> I want to hot forge some 5/16" bolts lol
[19:22:15] <andypugh> I wonder if there is a way to search eBay for just lathes, not everything that anyone might consider lathe-related. (I already select "used only" which filters things a bit
[19:23:04] <archivist> andypugh, I usually search the lathe maker Im interested in
[19:23:56] <andypugh> I don't know. I am looking for one that looks sad and negelcted and in need of CNC conversion.
[19:24:47] <archivist> there was one on the scrap pile the other day
[19:25:11] <archivist> but perhaps a little too old
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[19:27:59] <archivist> andypugh, broken lathe seems best :)
[19:28:03] <andypugh> I am thinking that a Chipmaster would be a a good candidate. Apart from anything else you are not wasting a set of head gears.
[19:30:31] <archivist> the one in devon ..thrashed to the last atom of its ways
[19:31:29] <andypugh> Yes, "replaced with a new model" So why, pray tell?
[19:32:32] <archivist> this is shiny but it has a bidding war 261011642153
[19:33:15] <andypugh> Woohoo! http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300702056341
[19:34:04] <andypugh> "Ex secondary schoool" means "brand new, never used" so it will be a good buy.
[19:34:06] <archivist> bugger I should have them
[19:34:49] <andypugh> The "Metal working tools" would have gone for 4x that with a proper description "P Horn supermini boring bars"
[19:35:12] <andypugh> Should have which?
[19:35:20] <archivist> I went on their stand the other week
[19:35:34] <archivist> the p horn tools
[19:36:16] <andypugh> I have been wanting a proper holder for a while. (I won that auction)
[19:36:39] <archivist> I realised, now I know where to come scrounging
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[19:41:44] * skunkworks wonders if he can get hydrogen locally...
[19:41:57] <skunkworks> without making it himself
[19:42:42] <skunkworks> is that something the local gas/welding supply place have?
[19:43:28] <skunkworks> huh - looks like they do...
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[19:44:15] <andypugh> Maybe. Worth asking. What's that process.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_hydrogen_welding
[19:45:03] <skunkworks> na - just a stirling engine project.. Helium is nice - hydrogen is better. (better heat transfer, lighter and something else)
[19:45:18] <skunkworks> it just goes bang some times.
[19:45:40] <skunkworks> looks like I can get a small tank - have to give them a call
[19:46:57] <r00t4rd3d> blow something up
[19:50:15] <Loetmichel> "bang" is a slight understatement
[19:50:33] <r00t4rd3d> more of a boom
[19:50:37] <Loetmichel> last time i ignited some hydrogen the roof of my garden shed flew off ;-)
[19:50:54] <Loetmichel> (ok, i was only 15 and didnt know it better)
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[19:52:27] <skunkworks> I used to make ballons worth of it when I was a kid. very fun
[19:55:38] <archivist> my dad caught me sawing a bullet case to see what was inside. it didnt go off :)
[19:56:23] <Loetmichel> archivist: sheer luck
[19:56:47] <archivist> that would have damaged the shed walls, things we do as kids :)
[19:57:08] <Loetmichel> i have a brass shard embedded in my thumb bone to tell a story where the .22 DID ignite at sawing
[19:57:40] <archivist> you wont do it again
[19:57:46] <Loetmichel> for sure
[19:58:30] <skunkworks> getting carbon rods out of spend D cells was probably more dangerous..
[19:59:10] <archivist> well messy, never hurt me
[19:59:24] <skunkworks> heh
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[19:59:54] <skunkworks> when I jammed the screwdriver in my hand...
[20:00:01] <archivist> were you eating it then?
[20:04:22] fenn_ is now known as fenn
[20:05:42] <mrsun_> skunkworks, thats not where the screwdriver is supposed to go ;P
[20:21:08] <skunkworks> you're telling me!
[20:21:58] <andypugh> Well, it seemed more obvious to us than to you.
[20:22:21] <archivist> a few war wounds while growing up are required education :)
[20:23:57] <andypugh> You mean I am allowed to stop giving myself piunctures now?
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[20:26:09] <JT-Shop> you should see what kids have to go through over here to get a nick... protective gear, nerf footballs if they can even have one padded everything including their heads
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[20:36:43] <r00t4rd3d> grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
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[21:13:20] <Aero-Tec> can one do threading with EMC with only the index pulse?
[21:13:59] <JT-Shop> external single point threading?
[21:14:09] <Aero-Tec> yes
[21:14:24] <Aero-Tec> and internal
[21:15:03] <JT-Shop> I think you need at least a velocity estimate on the spindle from A as well
[21:15:32] <JT-Shop> doubt you would be happy with a thread with one pulse per rev though
[21:15:49] <Aero-Tec> mach uses just the index
[21:16:06] <JT-Shop> ...
[21:16:29] <Aero-Tec> in fact that is all you can use
[21:17:35] <ReadError_> so hmmm
[21:17:40] <ReadError_> i can run EMC headless?
[21:17:55] <Aero-Tec> ?
[21:17:56] <ReadError_> can i connect the linux EMC client to it on another machine?
[21:18:02] <ReadError_> it listens on port 5005
[21:18:04] <toast2> most of the machines i've ever ran had just an index pulse for threading
[21:18:10] <ReadError_> saw it when i did a lsof on the process
[21:18:22] <toast2> the thread quality is pretty high
[21:18:41] <toast2> not sure where emc stands on it but IIRC it does just fine with an index pulse only
[21:19:02] <Aero-Tec> IIRC?
[21:19:11] <toast2> "if i recall correctly"
[21:19:26] <Aero-Tec> ok
[21:19:27] <Connor> I just set my spindle up with A, 16 counts per revolution
[21:19:41] <toast2> spindle encoders matter more for rigid tapping
[21:19:43] <Connor> No index.. I may try treading with it at some point.
[21:20:33] <Connor> I was thinking of adding a spring to my quill and let it extend out about 1/2" for tapping that way it can pull/push the quill as needed for variations in feed rate vs spindle speed.
[21:20:36] <Aero-Tec> I would love rigid tapping but for now I will just single point it
[21:20:40] <Connor> like the tormach tapping head.
[21:21:14] <toast2> Connor: one of the easiest ways to tap like that is to just make a dog-driven tapping collar
[21:21:42] <Aero-Tec> but no good for single point threading
[21:21:53] <toast2> you drive your spindle down to the final depth, and the tap feeds until it gets far down enough to slip off the og
[21:21:55] <toast2> *dog
[21:22:31] <toast2> all floating tapholders are essentially just a spring, though, so your method will work just fine
[21:22:41] <JT-Shop> ReadError_: have you looked at emcrsh or what ever it is now?
[21:23:30] <Aero-Tec> when I get some proper card and the other spindle signal set up I will be able to rigid tap
[21:24:05] <JT-Shop> you have to have both A and B and index to rigid tap
[21:24:14] <Aero-Tec> has anyone setup threading on EMC with just the encoder?
[21:25:11] <JT-Shop> are you asking without spindle speed control but with encoder feedback to LinuxCNC?
[21:25:21] <Aero-Tec> JT-Shop: thanks for the info
[21:25:32] <Aero-Tec> yes
[21:25:38] <Aero-Tec> no speed control
[21:25:47] <JT-Shop> there is an example in the manual
[21:25:48] <Aero-Tec> and just a index
[21:25:53] <Loetmichel> so, done for today... just made a trophy for competitions at a quadcopter-convention....
[21:26:01] <Connor> My understanding is, EMC just adjusts the feed rate anyway, not the spindle speed.
[21:26:01] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=13170
[21:26:28] <Loetmichel> (forgot to mirror the logo... no problem, its just a prototype ;-)
[21:26:51] toast2 is now known as toastydeath
[21:26:58] <JT-Shop> Loetmichel: cool
[21:27:10] <Aero-Tec> Loetmichel: nice
[21:28:14] <Aero-Tec> but why the soldering iron?
[21:28:56] <Aero-Tec> trophy for the best soldered boards?
[21:29:19] <Loetmichel> its the trophy from last year for the "building" competition
[21:29:22] <Aero-Tec> love quadcopters
[21:29:40] <Connor> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/2.2/html/gcode_main.html#sec:G33,-G33.1:-Spindle-Synchronized
[21:29:56] <DJ9DJ_> gn8
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[21:30:33] <ReadError_> Loetmichel: SMD LED?
[21:30:57] <Loetmichel> correct
[21:31:24] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=13158
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[21:32:05] <Loetmichel> 60mA , plcc2, 30°, and i have 200 laying around
[21:32:42] <Loetmichel> so i got the job to make the lights fpr the trophys
[21:32:45] <Connor> If I don't have a index, just a A, can I still do threading ?
[21:34:06] <andypugh> Aero-Tec: There is a "position-interpolated" pin in the encoder module, it will help a lot to use that. Also, don't try to thread at too low a speed.
[21:35:05] <Aero-Tec> encoder module?
[21:35:22] <Aero-Tec> I am using the p port only
[21:35:29] <andypugh> Mach just does a constant-speed move when it sees the index, so doesn't cope at all if the spindle slows during the cut. LinuxCNC tries to compensate for spindle speed changes, but will tend to get a bit confused by a single-pulse spindle. So, neither works perfectly on a single ppr.
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[21:36:12] <andypugh> Aero-Tec: Look in your HAL file, you will see an encoder module get loaded, and the positon pin will be "net"-ed to motion.spindle-revs.
[21:36:48] <andypugh> If it isn't already encoder.0.position-interpolated, edit the file so it is.
[21:37:09] <Aero-Tec> ok
[21:37:13] <andypugh> (assuming you only have one encoder, called "0" because geeks couint that way, and geeks wrote LinuxCNC.
[21:37:29] <Aero-Tec> lol
[21:37:48] <Aero-Tec> I am a geek of sorts as well
[21:38:22] <Aero-Tec> old timer, before geeks were cool and just got beat up
[21:40:22] <Aero-Tec> thing is I was a big, both in being a geek and in size
[21:40:56] <Aero-Tec> so they could not beet me up, they tried but I got them
[21:41:11] <andypugh> Aero-Tec: I think that describes most of us. Well, not the size thing necessarily.
[21:41:54] <JT-Shop> ReadError_: did you find emcrsh
[21:42:58] <Loetmichel> Aero-Tec: if you are big: no one would have tried to beat you up.
[21:43:43] <Aero-Tec> bullies like big guys that do not fight back
[21:43:47] <Loetmichel> i just had to show the 3 school bullies what happens it i get bullied top much.
[21:44:06] <Loetmichel> after that i had no problems with bullies on the school ;-)
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[21:44:15] <Aero-Tec> makes for a more inexpressive show and makes them feel like a someone
[21:44:59] <Aero-Tec> they start small and work up to pissing you off
[21:45:06] <Aero-Tec> then you hammer them
[21:45:43] <Aero-Tec> yes, they do leave you alone after you knock them on their a$$
[21:45:43] <andypugh> I just managed to nurture a reputation for being a bit of a psycho when angered, which saved a lot of trouble. Chase one kid round the playing fields with a small tree stump and the others back off :-)
[21:45:59] <Loetmichel> someone told me afterwards ( i have no memory of the few minutes whre my fuses went off) that i had jelled out like an animal, got one of the three bullues by collar and belt, lifted him and trown him 5 meteres to a wall
[21:46:00] <Aero-Tec> lol
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[21:47:16] <Loetmichel> btw: i was 16 at that time, 63kg and 180cm tall
[21:47:30] <Aero-Tec> thing is I moves on average 3 times a year up till jr high
[21:47:35] <Loetmichel> and have thrown the 190cm 90kg bullie
[21:47:41] <JT-Shop> andypugh: I'm on track to test fire Sunday :)
[21:47:59] <Aero-Tec> test fire?
[21:48:04] <Aero-Tec> we talking guns?
[21:48:09] <Aero-Tec> lol
[21:48:28] <Aero-Tec> had to deal with lots of bullies
[21:48:32] <andypugh> Well, not so much a gun as artillery in this case.
[21:48:42] <Aero-Tec> cool
[21:48:57] <Aero-Tec> friend of mine and I were looking at making one
[21:49:23] <andypugh> Hmm, JT is a big chap and may be a geek. I wonder if his current cannon-based project can be traced back to childhood trauma? </freud>
[21:49:47] <Loetmichel> hrhr
[21:50:02] <Aero-Tec> and I have a friend from England that ones a real cannon, and we are not talking cameras
[21:50:21] <andypugh> JT-Shop: Show him the pictures..
[21:50:42] <Aero-Tec> would love to see them
[21:50:59] <JT-Shop> ok
[21:51:17] <andypugh> Darn! They sold it. http://easternyachts.com/grandturk/gun_deck.htm
[21:52:03] <andypugh> (it's rather a nice baot, and was "only" £1.5 million
[21:52:33] <Aero-Tec> love how you say only
[21:52:34] <JT-Shop> http://imagebin.org/210859
[21:52:57] <JT-Shop> http://imagebin.org/210860
[21:53:45] <JT-Shop> working on the Lunette and Trail Plate now
[21:53:55] <Aero-Tec> nice toy
[21:54:05] <Aero-Tec> did you make the whole thing?
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[21:54:34] <JT-Shop> no, the barrel and wheels I purchased
[21:54:38] <Aero-Tec> looked like the barrel was not brass
[21:55:04] <JT-Shop> cast iron with a steel liner, 1 3/4" bore weighs about 100lbs
[21:55:20] <JT-Shop> http://www.gnipsel.com/ballista/videos/test-fire-1.mov
[21:55:25] <Aero-Tec> was it predrilled or did you drill the bore?
[21:55:45] <JT-Shop> the bore was finished, only had to drill the touch off hole
[21:55:50] <Aero-Tec> ok so steel liner
[21:56:00] <JT-Shop> yea, much safer to fire
[21:56:34] <JT-Shop> if we run low on black powder we stick them to a tree with the Ballista
[21:57:47] <andypugh> JT-Shop: You be mixing your terminology. It's a "touch hole". "touch off" is a bit more high-tech
[21:59:41] <Aero-Tec> nice toy
[21:59:52] <Aero-Tec> did you make it?
[22:00:36] <Aero-Tec> so to sum up
[22:00:55] <Aero-Tec> one can do single point in EMC with only endex
[22:01:18] <JT-Shop> LOL
[22:01:40] <JT-Shop> the Ballista yea made it from scratch and a truck spring
[22:01:55] <Aero-Tec> but will but be as good and can not run slow RPMs until you get the full spindle encoder working
[22:02:09] <Aero-Tec> that about right?
[22:02:12] <Aero-Tec> cool
[22:02:22] <andypugh> Aero-Tec: Aye, I reckon that's it
[22:02:48] <Aero-Tec> why single leaf, why not the full stack that was on the truck?
[22:02:53] <Aero-Tec> lol
[22:03:28] <Aero-Tec> sounds like a Tim Allen project
[22:03:54] <JT-Shop> I'm considering adding one more leaf to the spring to hurl the heavy bolts
[22:03:58] <andypugh> A full stack would be slow to extend, because of the extra mass, and probably would transfer less energy into the bolt.
[22:04:06] <Aero-Tec> wonder how well that would work
[22:04:12] <JT-Shop> no, mine work and no one gets hurt
[22:04:35] <andypugh> It's an interesting balance. Note how bows are made of very light materials.
[22:04:43] <JT-Shop> aye, but the string would have much more tension when pulled back
[22:05:00] <Aero-Tec> yes extra mass, but extra power to move mass faster
[22:05:30] * JT-Shop gets back to fabricating the Pointing Rings
[22:05:52] <andypugh> I tried to make a test rig once and found that there is an upper limit to how fast a coil spring can extend (related to the density and modulus of the material), and it isn't all that fast.
[22:06:02] <Aero-Tec> JT-Shop: thanks for sharing
[22:06:30] <JT-Shop> love to share
[22:06:37] <andypugh> JT-Shop: Extra tension is no help if the bolt out-tuns the string a millisecond later.
[22:06:49] <andypugh> (out-runs)
[22:07:02] <JT-Shop> yes, some experimentation is in order I think
[22:07:08] <andypugh> I have no idea at what point that happens, though.
[22:07:37] <andypugh> I think that the torsion spring arrangement the Romans used might not have been accidental.
[22:08:19] <andypugh> (arms attached to torsion springs can move a lot faster than coil springs)
[22:08:44] <toastydeath> you need very large springs to keep up with fast motion, which is why cam springs are huge
[22:08:52] <JT-Shop> actually the outer spring with the cable attached can't outrun the inner shorter spring I think due to the greater mass at the tips
[22:09:23] <JT-Shop> the torsion springs didn't work well when damp
[22:09:29] <andypugh> You might have noticed that I haven't said anything about leaf springs, as I know next-to-nothing about them
[22:09:42] <toastydeath> all springs have a speed limit
[22:10:07] <toastydeath> it's an integral of the force on the spring at any point along the spring and the mass of that point of the spring
[22:10:21] <Loetmichel> sounds logical
[22:11:19] <andypugh> toastydeath: Indeed, which is why my test rig ended up being a 100kg flywheel @ 3000 rpm, a pneumatic clutch and a cam...
[22:11:47] <andypugh> I have never before or since been so scared to click a mouse button..
[22:11:56] <toastydeath> air springs move faster at lower pressures than solid springs
[22:12:02] <toastydeath> so that's also an option
[22:12:54] <JT-Shop> what the heck were you testing?
[22:13:37] <toastydeath> his will to live
[22:14:34] <andypugh> gene__: Ye there?
[22:15:17] <andypugh> JT-Shop: benchtop simulation of car crashes. I was trying to test crash-test-dummy materials at crash-test velocities
[22:15:41] <andypugh> My rig did 0-50mph in 20mm.
[22:18:51] <JT-Shop> wow!
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[22:24:51] <Loetmichel> andypugh: nice
[22:24:59] <Loetmichel> thats how many g ?
[22:25:24] <andypugh> 500g, I think.
[22:26:19] <andypugh> I had to redesign the carriage to be stiffer, the section of the aluminium that held the linear guide bearings got left behind..
[22:26:35] <Loetmichel> harhar
[22:28:47] <Loetmichel> andypugh: i calculated 555g
[22:28:53] <Loetmichel> can that be correct?
[22:29:09] <Loetmichel> if so: no wonder the aluminium got left behind ;-)
[22:29:09] <andypugh> Yes, that sounds about right
[22:30:01] <Loetmichel> i had seen some electronics for a "intelligent 40mm grenade" once...
[22:30:12] <Loetmichel> which can cope with up to 2500g
[22:30:49] <Loetmichel> and there was really somm effort to hold the pieces together ;)
[22:31:01] <ReadError_> anyone here use pycam?
[22:31:07] <andypugh> I was in a bit of a never-never-land in terms of g. Most mechanical testing machins do 10g max, and the Split Hopkinson Bar is good for 5000g to 70,000g. I wanted something a bit in the middle.
[22:32:52] <Loetmichel> aha
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[22:37:54] <andypugh> Am I wrong to think that this list is just a _teeny_ bit US-centric? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_historic_mechanical_engineering_landmarks
[22:40:03] <JT-Shop> well it is the American Society of Mechanical Engineers
[22:42:10] <andypugh> Yes, but still. Several say "one of the" and I can immediately think of "the most" which is not in the US.
[22:42:56] <JT-Shop> those biased bastards
[22:43:51] <JT-Shop> probably some damn Yankee
[22:43:55] <andypugh> We get used to it. You spent decades thinking you invented the computer. There again, we didn't admit to ours.
[22:44:31] <JT-Shop> the code breaker one?
[22:45:19] <andypugh> I went to visit the Collussus replica a couple of weeks ago. Apparently parts of it are still "Secret". I thought that was stupid, but then the guy said it did the job as fast as a 1GHz Pentium 4. And it runs at a few kHz...
[22:50:04] <andypugh> Bill Tutte achieved an amazing feat. By analysing how someone else had decoded a message encrypted by the Lorenz SZ40 he figured out the structure of the cyphering machine without ever actually seeing one.
[22:50:26] <andypugh> That's amazing, and I suspect he had help from time-travelling aliens.
[22:50:55] <JT-Shop> that was some neat stuff those guys were doing at Bletchley Park
[22:52:10] <jdhNC> we invented the computer, the radio, the helicopter, fire, and sunrise.
[22:55:14] <andypugh> I'll almost give you powered flight.
[22:55:18] <andypugh> (almost)
[22:57:09] <andypugh> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_flight#Heavier_than_air
[22:57:29] <andypugh> But I think it is fair to say that the Wrights made it practical.
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[23:02:26] <andypugh> After a spell on Wikipedia, it seems that Cayley and Stringfellow were both from Yorkshire, so it seems that powered flight is a Yorkshire invention :-)
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[23:16:11] <JT-Shop> that operation came out better than I'd hoped
[23:18:58] <JT-Shop> 2 new users and 7 spammers since lunch... slow day for the spammers
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[23:25:54] <r00t4rd3d> spammers is more likely spammer.
[23:26:03] <r00t4rd3d> someone is targeting the site
[23:26:26] <JT-Shop> no, the IP's are from around the globe
[23:26:31] <r00t4rd3d> lol
[23:26:49] <r00t4rd3d> zombies
[23:26:50] <JT-Shop> shit I even banned my self once with nnn.nnn.*.* when I pissed
[23:26:59] <JT-Shop> I was
[23:27:17] <JT-Shop> yea they are more active at night
[23:28:10] <r00t4rd3d> thats not what i meant
[23:28:23] <r00t4rd3d> comprised machines.
[23:28:28] <r00t4rd3d> err
[23:28:38] <r00t4rd3d> compromised
[23:29:00] <r00t4rd3d> a spammer is not going to use his own machine to spam right?
[23:29:05] <JT-Shop> I like The Secret Life of Machines
[23:29:10] <r00t4rd3d> no he employees a bot net
[23:29:17] <JT-Shop> dam if I know
[23:29:27] <r00t4rd3d> infected computers that someone controls
[23:29:32] <r00t4rd3d> from like irc
[23:29:51] <JT-Shop> seems to be a lot of trouble for nothing
[23:30:06] <r00t4rd3d> 1 sale and its a win
[23:30:30] <JT-Shop> but they never get past me LOL
[23:30:44] <r00t4rd3d> not what the viagra ad said the other week
[23:30:50] <r00t4rd3d> in the documents page
[23:31:07] <JT-Shop> that is something different from what I can do anything about that is back end stuff
[23:31:35] <JT-Shop> the spammers I'm referring to try and register on the forum
[23:33:51] <r00t4rd3d> automated i am sure. Not someone actually typing out the info. Change the location of the register link for 24 hours and I bet the bad registrations stop briefly.
[23:35:02] <r00t4rd3d> using shit forum software doesnt help either.
[23:37:38] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.kunena.org/
[23:37:44] <r00t4rd3d> they cant even keep their own website up
[23:37:50] <andypugh> JT-Shop: The Tim Hunkin programs?
[23:38:21] <JT-Shop> yea, I love them
[23:39:15] <JT-Shop> yea, if alex_joni could change the log in URL I'd bet it would trickle to a stop
[23:40:04] <andypugh> Who can remove that phishing file?
[23:40:50] <r00t4rd3d> is username my email?
[23:40:51] <JT-Shop> alex_joni jepler cradek SWPadnos_ may be more I don't know
[23:41:07] <JT-Shop> no it's your username
[23:43:01] <JT-Shop> I struggling on how I want to make this part http://imagebin.org/210877
[23:43:32] <JT-Shop> the bottom is only 3/16" thick so welding will suck unless I do a weld from the bottom
[23:44:02] <r00t4rd3d> someone must have deleted my forum account
[23:44:33] <JT-Shop> dunno, just make a new one with plausible info
[23:44:57] <r00t4rd3d> nah
[23:45:21] <andypugh> This was my favourite "Secret Life" episode, lathes as fax machines. http://youtu.be/gA1b4M7h7K8
[23:45:22] <r00t4rd3d> shocker but I dont want my personal info in the hands of spammers and hackers.
[23:45:25] <JT-Shop> oh I did turn on the number spam check in user names today as I got a flood of new spammers last night with numbers in the user name
[23:45:54] <JT-Shop> like I said if your with the CIA just make up something plausible
[23:46:20] <r00t4rd3d> ive already put in one day of trying to register
[23:47:32] <JT-Shop> I don't remember seeing that episode
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[23:58:18] <andypugh> I actually vaguely know Rex Garrod