#linuxcnc | Logs for 2012-04-27

[00:00:17] <Jymmm> is that 4 axis or 3?
[00:00:59] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Heh, and I'd look at the drive thats all black at the bottom first =)
[00:01:32] * Jymmm ships JT-Shop a new supply of magic smoke
[00:02:01] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: (No, the the California special kind either)
[00:02:08] <Jymmm> Not the
[00:03:44] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: If that has 4 axis, why is the first one so huge?
[00:04:10] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: and what is the extra term strip for on it?
[00:11:55] <JT-Shop> Jymmm: that is old smoke
[00:12:13] <JT-Shop> 3 axis with spindle
[00:12:25] <JT-Shop> the spindle is 7.5 hp servo so it is huge
[00:13:21] <JT-Shop> right now I'm just pissed my 6k tapping machine won't tap 8 1/4-20 holes for me you know
[00:18:38] <skunkworks__> yeck..
[00:18:56] * skunkworks__ huggs linuxcnc
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[00:19:03] <JT-Shop> me too
[00:20:39] <JT-Shop> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Av9fuRmEpDg
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[00:23:24] * JT-Shop wanders inside to hug the feed bag...
[00:24:05] <JT-Shop> goodnight Gracie
[00:24:18] <Jymmm> Cya harpo!
[00:26:15] <Jymmm> does anyone know if liquid wax floats/sinks when mixed with water, like oil floats on water?
[00:26:28] <andypugh> floats
[00:27:04] <Jymmm> andypugh: but they WILL seperate, correct?
[00:27:11] <andypugh> Yes
[00:27:27] <Jymmm> Hmmm, ok thanks.
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[00:28:41] <Jymmm> andypugh: Ever heard of someone SPRAY lquid wax on something?
[00:29:16] <Jymmm> by lquid, I mean heated/melted to a liquid
[00:29:52] <andypugh> Jymmm: I believe there is a whole perversion based around it..
[00:30:05] <Jymmm> andypugh: I thought that was laytex
[00:30:13] <andypugh> Rule 34
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[00:30:32] <Jymmm> rotf
[00:30:50] <Jymmm> never heard that one before =)
[00:31:11] <Jymmm> too true though
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[00:31:47] <Jymmm> andypugh: NSFW http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wax_play
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[00:42:23] <A0Sheds> http://chicago.craigslist.org/nwc/tls/2979585820.html
[00:42:56] <A0Sheds> KBC Surface Grinder - $300 why so low other than only 0.5hp??
[00:43:26] <Jymmm> economy?
[00:44:27] <Jymmm> retired? moving?
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[00:49:48] <A0Sheds> hey sold!
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[01:17:31] <roycroft> that grinder was listed a half hour ago - it should have been pulled within five minutes (after the first 25 phone calls)
[01:17:58] <roycroft> oh, wait - that was yesterday
[01:18:37] <ReadError> you order the zen yet roycroft ?
[01:18:40] <ReadError> they have that other one
[01:18:42] <ReadError> open source
[01:18:45] <ReadError> frame is like 200$
[01:18:50] <roycroft> no
[01:18:51] <ReadError> i forget the name...
[01:18:58] <ReadError> someone here knows surely though
[01:19:09] <roycroft> the zen toolworks ones come with 3 stepper motors
[01:19:13] <roycroft> it's not just the frame
[01:19:15] <ReadError> yea
[01:19:22] <ReadError> but the complete kit is like 399 or so
[01:19:23] <roycroft> but i'm more than willing to look at other options
[01:19:24] <ReadError> on this one
[01:19:40] <roycroft> do you know if it has a decent z height?
[01:19:53] <roycroft> i would like to be able to mill cutouts on small enclosures with mine
[01:19:55] <jdhnc> anyone used a C41 with a 7i43?
[01:20:06] <roycroft> i was going to get the "3d" version of the zen 12x12
[01:20:13] <roycroft> 6" of z height
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[02:06:04] <jdhnc> pcw: any chance my 7i43/7i47 can't supply 16mA on the PWMGEN OUT line?
[02:07:04] <PCW> 7I47 outputs are 5V swing (and about 24mA drive)
[02:07:54] <PCW> 7I43 outputs are 3.3V swing and about 24 mA drive as well
[02:08:03] <jdhnc> looks perfect on the scope. Duty cycle looks good. CNC4PC C41 board won't put out more than 1.7V though
[02:10:58] <jdhnc> the docs only show a mach stepgen driving it
[02:11:45] <PCW> I'll pretty much guarantee its not a software issue :-)
[02:12:19] <PCW> this is being driven by the 7I47?
[02:12:38] <jdhnc> yes
[02:13:24] <jdhnc> 7i47 signal looks perfect on the scope. 5V, dead on whatever pwm freq I set
[02:14:02] <PCW> so you are using one half of a 7I47 differential output (should be 5V) into the C41?
[02:14:03] <PCW> power missing on C41 output side?
[02:14:11] <Tom_itx> mmm 203v's arrived today
[02:14:44] <jdhnc> using the 7i47 TX0/ pin and ground
[02:15:39] <jdhnc> tried both halves though, same thing but the TX0+ pulse width shortens when I set speed higher
[02:16:11] <jdhnc> 500mA 12vdc separate supply for the C41. It says it needs 300mA
[02:16:17] <PCW> well if its a 5 v signal and you dont have a C1 side miss-connect dont know All we can do is supply clean 5V signals
[02:16:20] <jdhnc> tried two different power supplies
[02:17:04] <jdhnc> it's clean.
[02:17:48] <jdhnc> the C41 manual is for a different rev board. This one has an extra set of 5vdc +/gnd terminals. Looks like they come from a 5V regulator though
[02:20:37] <PCW> TX0- should be exact inverse of TX0+ (within a few nS)
[02:21:19] <jdhnc> it is.
[02:21:55] <jdhnc> though TX0- looks normal and TX0+ looks backwards
[02:22:46] <PCW> well you can try grounding and tying the C41 input to 5V and see if the output follows
[02:22:48] <PCW> but like I say if you have 5V signals, more than that we cannot do...
[02:23:24] <jdhnc> looks like me or the board. I unplugged the 12VDC and still get the same 1.68V
[02:23:51] <PCW> bbl
[02:30:15] <Tom_itx> jdhnc what is the C41 board?
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[02:44:00] <ReadError> sooo
[02:44:04] <ReadError> i got my backlash values
[02:44:14] <ReadError> suprised i can control it down to .0001" !
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[02:45:45] <roycroft> that's pretty damn tight
[02:45:50] <roycroft> what kind of gear is this?
[02:46:05] <ReadError> taig mill
[02:46:15] <Valen> thats pretty small tbh
[02:46:20] <ReadError> taig 2019cr
[02:46:25] <roycroft> that's hard to believe
[02:46:28] <ReadError> Valen, my dial indicator sees it
[02:46:33] <Valen> you make your own anti-backlash stuff?
[02:46:39] <ReadError> nah
[02:46:39] <roycroft> there's not enough mass in a taig to hold that kind of tolerance
[02:46:52] <Valen> roycroft: he is measuring his backlash
[02:46:54] <ReadError> i have ~ 34 steps @ 0.0001 of backlash
[02:46:59] <Valen> not saying he can machine stuff that fine
[02:47:05] <roycroft> i suppose with no load it can be done
[02:47:11] <ReadError> i put it that low to determine the backlash
[02:47:23] <Valen> its backlash, ours has less than .001mm
[02:47:37] <ReadError> i havnt set any values for it
[02:47:41] <ReadError> i can compensate
[02:47:43] <Valen> double ballscrews with bigass springs
[02:47:44] <ReadError> as long as its consistent
[02:47:57] <ReadError> which it seems to be going by my test so far
[02:47:59] <Valen> on an acme thread without a spring it probably wont be
[02:48:38] <ReadError> acme thread?
[02:48:56] <ReadError> what kind of mill you running Valen ?
[02:48:59] <Valen> square looking thread, has a plain nut
[02:49:25] <Valen> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/general_metal_working_machines/118358-phenolic_basalt_head_our_hm45.html
[02:49:45] <Valen> vs ballscrews which have funky threads and ball bearings in the nuts
[02:51:23] <ReadError> i wish the stepconf had a backlash setting ;/
[02:51:38] <Thetawaves> hey Valen
[02:51:49] <Thetawaves> polyester resin shrinks quite a bit apparently
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[02:52:12] <Valen> casting resin doesnt
[02:52:31] <Thetawaves> your mold showed signs of shrinkage
[02:52:37] <Valen> no it didn't
[02:53:14] <Valen> russell has been doing fibgerglass and casting for ~20 years, i'm inclined to think he knows what he is on about
[02:53:42] <Valen> the shrinkage is .something of a %, and we were at around 18% resin in the mix
[02:53:57] <ReadError> roycroft, you going to be cutting pcbs?
[02:54:08] <Valen> the shrinkage is going to be minimal, and it'll act to "pretension" everything
[02:56:03] <Valen> the center section not releasing was just that, chemical stick.
[02:56:25] <Valen> you can see that because when we ripped the middle out it was still stuck to the sides
[02:56:27] <Thetawaves> i was referring to the this comment
[02:56:38] <Thetawaves> We think this was due to using the vibrator and focusing on the front while it was tipped up, and the top side slumped away from the mold.
[02:56:51] <Thetawaves> i think it was shrinkage
[02:57:14] <Valen> rofl
[02:57:21] <Valen> no thats just not filling the mould
[02:57:42] <Valen> to shrink that far the whole thing would look like a picnic bar
[02:57:58] <Valen> shrinkage would shoe up in the flat side being bowed
[02:58:01] <Valen> show
[02:58:32] <Thetawaves> alright
[02:58:36] <Thetawaves> thanks for the info
[02:58:36] <jdhnc> Tom_itx: C41 is a cnc4pc.com pwm->0-10vdc board
[03:01:21] <Valen> sorry if i sounded defensive, doing some work atm
[03:01:29] <Valen> happy to chat about it
[03:01:41] <Valen> btw if you do it, get some pigment into the mix
[03:01:58] <Valen> ours looked way too much like a bad night of beer and curry
[03:06:35] <Tecan> atom heads
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[03:20:47] <Thetawaves> Valen, i was think red cement pigment
[03:21:04] <Valen> you need to get one compatible with the resin
[03:21:11] <Valen> oxide i dont think will work
[03:21:16] <Valen> or it'll affect the cure perhaps
[03:21:21] <Thetawaves> oh
[03:21:34] <Valen> be careful with it, though it just keeps going
[03:21:48] <Valen> touch the pigment, then anything you touch after that will be pigmented lol
[03:22:02] <Thetawaves> lol!
[03:22:06] <Thetawaves> you could seal it though
[03:22:12] <Thetawaves> enamel or somesuch paint
[03:22:37] <toast2> Engrave it
[03:22:44] <toast2> make it look cool and Fallout-ish
[03:22:52] <toast2> take advantage of the defects!
[03:23:43] <ReadError> odd problem
[03:23:47] <Valen> oh after it cures it'll be fine
[03:23:51] <ReadError> when i home now, it doesnt reflect the values i set
[03:23:59] <ReadError> its going to some crazy 3.33666 number
[03:24:04] <ReadError> i havnt made any changes to the config
[03:24:14] <Valen> i mean be wary of the raw pigment, and of the pigment mixed with resin
[03:24:24] <Thetawaves> are there any urethane based casting resins?
[03:24:40] <Valen> possibly, but hard urethanes are REALLY expensive
[03:25:02] <Valen> like $50 a kg or something springs to mind
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[03:32:25] <Thetawaves> mkay
[03:35:50] <Valen> it would be pretty damn cool though I give you that
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[04:16:13] <A0Sheds> this surface grinder needs a little love but it's not bad for $300
[04:16:27] <Tecan> http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com
[04:17:00] <A0Sheds> deciding on whether or not to buy his EDM and OD CNC surface grinders
[04:17:55] <A0Sheds> voumard 403
[04:20:30] <A0Sheds> http://www.mullermachines.fr/en/internal_grinding_machine_voumard_403_l5700-10-192.aspx
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[04:20:54] <A0Sheds> hmm the one had had a 30K rpm spindle
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[05:02:58] <A0Sheds> http://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/tls/2979233983.html radial drill press - $950
[05:04:02] <toast2> not a good machine for cnc but radial arm drills are beasts
[05:04:18] <A0Sheds> 5000lbs
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[05:04:43] <toast2> also does it say how the ID grinder controls form
[05:04:54] <toast2> tracer, crush, cnc, etc
[05:05:18] <toast2> doesn't look optical
[05:05:18] <A0Sheds> the voumard? cnc
[05:05:37] <toast2> nice
[05:05:57] <A0Sheds> has a sodic a280 EDM as well
[05:06:30] <A0Sheds> the controls are all toast
[05:06:43] <A0Sheds> trying to find the specs on the sodic edm
[05:07:41] <A0Sheds> http://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/tls/2956114591.html gorton mastermill 3hp $1450
[05:08:04] <A0Sheds> Gorton doesn't use R8
[05:08:16] <A0Sheds> some funky Gorton collet
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[05:20:34] cylly2 is now known as Loetmichel
[05:21:02] <Loetmichel> mornin'
[05:29:23] <ReadError> mornin
[05:29:31] <ReadError> you use backlash settings Loetmichel?
[05:35:14] <Loetmichel> no, i have 2 nuts on all my leadscrews.
[05:35:30] <Loetmichel> s/all/every
[05:36:48] <A0Sheds> Loetmichel, were you working on that wire based multiaxis foam cutter about 6 months ago?
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[05:37:21] <Loetmichel> A0Sheds: no, but i know the principle
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[05:38:07] <A0Sheds> Loetmichel, I was just wondering how it turned out
[05:38:30] <A0Sheds> he was also from Germany
[05:38:35] <Loetmichel> hmmm
[05:38:38] <A0Sheds> now i know
[05:38:49] <Loetmichel> didnt recognize that
[05:38:59] <Loetmichel> it wasnt me, though
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[05:39:51] <A0Sheds> wasn't his nick IchGu*** something
[05:40:26] <A0Sheds> http://www.wotol.com/1-sodick-a280-wire-edm-machine-30-cm-20-cm-17-5-cm/second-hand-machinery/prod_id/296699
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[05:40:49] <A0Sheds> I don't think this is worth more than $1500 with a bad controller
[05:41:04] <Loetmichel> ichgucklive?
[05:41:13] <A0Sheds> yes, that's him
[05:42:43] <Loetmichel> i dont know him other than being a bit on my nerves for asking xx times weired questions in query...
[05:42:57] <A0Sheds> yeah, thats him :)
[05:43:32] <A0Sheds> you work with the Tempest printers
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[05:44:53] <Loetmichel> hmmm... i have to be in the car in 2 minutes on my way to work... and still sitting here with my coffee in a dressing gown :-(
[05:45:01] <A0Sheds> heh
[05:45:09] <Loetmichel> (have to learn to get up a bit more early)
[05:45:46] <A0Sheds> or move an hour west to the next time zone
[05:45:46] <Loetmichel> A0Sheds: right, my company makes Tempest-proof equipment
[05:46:27] <roycroft> or go off summer time early
[05:46:59] <ReadError> dressing gown??
[05:48:12] <Loetmichel> "morgenmantel/bademantel"
[05:49:37] <ReadError> hmm i dont think we have those over here
[05:49:42] <Loetmichel> sooo, coffee empty... have to hurry now. Chronically late to work ;-)
[05:50:32] <Loetmichel> cU in a few (VNC from work to the home computer is a nice thing ;-)
[05:51:00] <A0Sheds> I wish English used words like shoes, hand shoes and house shoes
[05:51:42] <A0Sheds> shoes, gloves, slippers, why so many words?
[05:52:02] * Loetmichel looks loke this atm: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=7092 ;-)
[05:53:52] <A0Sheds> morning clothes, bed clothes, see in English it's a robe or pajamas, why can' we keep it simple ? :)
[05:58:16] <roycroft> that would be boring
[05:59:06] * roycroft wonders if a kiln with a pyrometer, but no temperature controller, would be useful for heat treating
[05:59:22] <roycroft> for small items it would surely be fine
[05:59:41] <roycroft> for something large, it's hard to soak at a particular temperature for a while without constantly tending it
[06:00:12] <A0Sheds> so it just runs until you kill the power or it melts into a pool on the shop floor?
[06:00:16] <roycroft> yup
[06:00:39] <A0Sheds> temp controller is pretty simple btw
[06:00:49] <roycroft> yes, it's not too difficult to do
[06:01:01] <roycroft> considering especially that i'm desigining one for fermenting beer
[06:01:25] <roycroft> i just know i probably would not get around to it for a while if i bought this kiln
[06:01:44] <roycroft> on the other hand, it's $175 on cl, and this model costs $900 new
[06:02:02] <A0Sheds> http://www.ebay.com/itm/EDM-ELOX-COLT-INDUSTRIES-/280870526832?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4165301f70 hmmm 2 for $900
[06:02:27] <A0Sheds> beer kiln or?
[06:02:31] <roycroft> i have a small top-loader, and it doesn't even have a pyrometer - just a kiln sitter (i used to use it when i was formulating ceramic glazes)
[06:02:52] <roycroft> i could sell that for the $175 that the cl one costs
[06:03:02] <roycroft> the cl one is a front-loader, which is better for heat treating
[06:03:19] <A0Sheds> electric?
[06:03:20] <roycroft> with a top loader you usually let it cool overnight before opening it
[06:03:22] <roycroft> yes
[06:03:33] <roycroft> and that doesn't get along with quenching very well
[06:03:55] <A0Sheds> isn't the slow cooling for the ceramics?
[06:04:00] <roycroft> yes
[06:04:09] <roycroft> the kiln i have is ideal for ceramics
[06:04:13] <A0Sheds> you could pop the top and pick up the part and drop it into a bath
[06:04:18] <roycroft> but i don't do that any more
[06:04:27] <roycroft> yeah, and get a blast of heat in my face
[06:04:42] <roycroft> it's a lot more difficult to work around the heat with a top loader than a front loader
[06:04:44] <A0Sheds> I would suggest flooding the hot kiln with water
[06:04:55] <roycroft> i would summarily reject your suggestion
[06:05:00] <A0Sheds> wouldn't
[06:05:11] <A0Sheds> left out the 't
[06:05:19] <roycroft> i would accept the modified suggestion
[06:05:43] <roycroft> i should pick this one up
[06:05:55] <roycroft> it might take a while to sell the other one, but it will eventually sell
[06:07:27] <A0Sheds> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Make-Offer-Easco-Sparcatron-Sinker-EDM-Machine-Futaba-DRO-Mitsubishi-Sodick-Wire-/260937190203?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cc1118b3b
[06:09:19] <A0Sheds> "(it appears to be complete) No...we do not know what is wrong with it.." but how about maybe what is does or does not do
[06:09:57] <A0Sheds> no power, no sign of life or powers up but the screen looks like Martian Pong is playing
[06:10:26] <roycroft> just schlep a tub of paraffin on your mill table and turn it into an edm
[06:11:03] <A0Sheds> but these have knobs and stuff
[06:11:12] <roycroft> you can buy extra knobs on ebay
[06:11:14] <roycroft> for a song
[06:11:18] <A0Sheds> true
[06:12:53] <roycroft> you can even build a big tesla coil to put on top of the mill for added visual effects
[06:13:11] <A0Sheds> V shaped bbzzzz things
[06:17:16] <A0Sheds> does it matter where you place the tub of wax?
[06:18:58] <A0Sheds> I have candles currently on each end of the table, for religious and lighting purposes
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[06:22:26] <alex4nder> yoh
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[06:44:42] <Loetmichel> ggrrr. 200 minutes late... like every second day... i SHOULD work on my punctuallity issues :-(
[06:45:09] <Loetmichel> 20 minutes
[06:47:43] <Loetmichel> luckily i have proven myself pretty versatile at wok, so my boss is more or less tolerating me being late every so often ;-)
[06:47:50] <Loetmichel> work
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[07:03:29] <DJ9DJ> moin
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[13:40:50] <skunkworks> what ui do people like on precise?
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[13:57:44] <archivist> clever method of explanation of a BLDC flow chart http://rmmx.gmxhome.de/bldchv/english/start.html can click block for more info
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[14:07:34] <JT-Shop-2> Jymmm: sorry about being cranky yesterday...
[14:07:56] <Jymmm> JT-Shop-2: You were? Never noticed.
[14:08:02] <skunkworks> JT-Shop-2: did you get any further?
[14:08:45] <JT-Shop-2> yes, every screw on the motor wires were loose and I tightened them at least 1 1/2 turns each
[14:08:54] <JT-Shop-2> on the lower terminal block
[14:09:52] <skunkworks> yay for simple fixes!
[14:10:32] <skunkworks> could have that been your spindle issue too?
[14:11:18] <JT-Shop-2> no, they were tight all the while
[14:11:47] <skunkworks> aww
[14:11:57] <JT-Shop-2> yea, I'm up to 200IPM atm and the servo sounds right so up to 295 in a couple of steps
[14:12:58] * Jymmm replaces JT-Shop-2 coffee cup with a clamp on amp meter ;)
[14:13:23] <skunkworks> this week we had an extension cord running a UPS. The ups went into battery and I grabbed the plug and it was hot. All the screws on the extention cord ends where loose
[14:13:42] <JT-Shop-2> yikes
[14:13:50] <skunkworks> (and quite warm)
[14:13:56] <Jymmm> skunkworks: how long?
[14:14:00] <Jymmm> length
[14:14:09] <skunkworks> about 10ft I would guess
[14:14:13] <Jymmm> ew
[14:14:14] <JT-Shop-2> the Z problem had been getting worse and worse so bad thoughts were looming in my brain
[14:15:18] <Jymmm> JT-Shop-2: RED RUM
[14:15:23] <Jymmm> JT-Shop-2: RED RUM
[14:15:25] <Jymmm> JT-Shop-2: RED RUM
[14:16:07] <JT-Shop-2> I wonder if the Z axis problem contributed to the spindle problem in some way?
[14:18:10] <skunkworks> noise maybe?
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[14:24:39] <Jymmm> JT-Shop-2: Ok, I usually dont share these types of videos, but talk about priorities, lol... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mf2Np19leo0&feature=relmfu
[14:24:54] <Jymmm> JT-Shop-2: You should enjoy that a tad
[14:25:54] JT-Shop-2 is now known as JT-Shop
[14:26:14] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: You HAVE to watch Part 2, lol
[14:26:37] <JT-Shop> it just errored out at 295IPM so I'm going to check the wires for burnt areas and clean the terminals
[14:27:21] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Seriously, walk away for a bit and watch those videos. It'll clear your mind and get a chuckle at the same time.
[14:28:20] <skunkworks> JT-Shop: who needs to go that fast anyway... :)
[14:28:29] <Tom_itx> 90' lcd ribbon: http://vimeo.com/41009719
[14:28:59] <Tom_itx> relax n watch the pixels
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[15:07:05] <A0Sheds> Jymmm: that guy with the grinder ended up having a shop full of equipment for sale
[15:09:50] <jdhnc> room in the box for everything?
[15:11:11] <A0Sheds> http://www.mullermachines.fr/en/internal_grinding_machine_voumard_403_l5700-10-192.aspx didn't fit in the back of the Land Cruiser
[15:11:50] <A0Sheds> can't find the docs for the exact one he had, his has a 30K rpm spindle
[15:12:36] <A0Sheds> also trying to find the docs for a Sodick a280 EDM
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[15:36:14] <JT-Shop> Jymmm: the tech at TigerDirect told me I just need to put a second router in bridge mode to extend my wifi coverage
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[15:51:28] <roycroft> good luck with that, jt-shop
[15:51:47] <JT-Shop> that don't sound good
[15:52:01] <roycroft> how are you going to roam from one router to the other?
[15:52:14] <roycroft> they can't use the same channel or the'll stomp on each other
[15:52:41] <roycroft> i don't know the consumer stuff that well, but very little of it can handle roaming
[15:52:50] <JT-Shop> one is out in the shop and one is in the house and the only thing that uses the inside one is my wifes ipad
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[15:53:22] <roycroft> if you'll never move devices from one to the other you might be ok
[15:53:38] <JT-Shop> yea
[15:53:44] <roycroft> my experience is with large outdoor mesh deployments, so that won't translate directly to your application
[15:54:11] <roycroft> but wireless stuff does not work like hard-wired ethernet, where you can plug one switch into another and have everything pass over the whole network
[15:54:29] <skunkworks> I have done similar things with a access point setup to bridge to a router.
[15:54:43] <roycroft> there is consumer stuff out there that can interop like you want to do
[15:54:54] <roycroft> a friend of mine is giving me some cisco gear next week that will do that
[15:54:57] <skunkworks> I have never done router to router.
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[15:55:28] <skunkworks> I don't think linksys ones allow it - unless you install a linux firmware.. ;)
[15:55:32] * roycroft has no wifi in his shop at the moment
[15:55:57] <archivist> cannot beat real wire
[15:57:53] <jdhnc> if you have the same power in both places, you can use an ethernet over powerline bridge
[15:58:56] <roycroft> what i've done in the past in such situations is hard wire each router, assign a seperate ssid to each, and just operate as two different networks
[16:02:31] <roycroft> that avoids conflicts when you're in between networks - otherwise you might, at times, be bouncing back and forth between your devices
[16:02:58] <roycroft> in my mesh deployments i have wireless lan controllers that manage all of that, and determine which radio each customer can talk to
[16:03:15] <roycroft> i assume you're not willing to invest $75k in this, though :)
[16:03:45] <jthornton> I have 3 cat6e cables from the router in the shop to the beer cave where I need to extend the wifi
[16:04:33] <roycroft> if you can hard-wire back to the head end, then i'd suggest doing what i said earlier - set up two wifi networks with seperate ssids on each
[16:04:58] <roycroft> that's a heck of a lot easier to manage than using the same one on both and inviting the inherent conflicts that will cause
[16:05:01] <jthornton> what does back to head end mean?
[16:05:54] <roycroft> the source of your internet connection - dsl, cablemodem, whatever
[16:07:33] <jthornton> my satellite modem plugs into my 8 port router internet connection
[16:17:39] <JT-Shop> I had this in the shop before I moved the router out here... http://www.dlink.com/products/?pid=663
[16:17:44] <JT-Shop> wonder if it still works
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[16:20:37] <roycroft> before i had my welding shop set up, i used my tig welder in my garage, and it caused interference with my wifi network
[16:21:09] <roycroft> i was surprised that it was generating harmonics in the 2.4GH band
[16:21:13] <roycroft> 2.4GHz
[16:22:57] <jthornton> yea, tig welders need some real good grounds
[16:23:28] <jthornton> I think my wireless bridge is working... at least the wired part works cause I'm here
[16:23:34] <roycroft> the garage setup was temporary
[16:23:45] <roycroft> in my welding shop i put in an hf ground rod
[16:24:00] <roycroft> and a panel on the wall with a couple dinse connectors going to that ground
[16:24:39] <roycroft> i plug my plasma cutter and tig welder into that ground plate - i hate having to switch plugs when i switch equipment
[16:29:01] <jthornton> I should take the rest of the day off, the wifes laptop gets 4 bars from the d-link so her ipad should work too
[16:30:16] <skunkworks> how far away is the shop?
[16:30:26] <skunkworks> *should have been the first question...
[16:30:37] <jthornton> about 75' or so
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[16:35:57] <skunkworks> that should be decent
[16:36:34] <JT-Shop> the wifi signal?
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[16:44:03] <ReadError> hey alex4nder
[16:44:05] <ReadError> you around?
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[17:20:32] <IchGuckLive> Hi all someone can tell me homany rev/sec i can run with 400steps/48V/4.2A
[17:20:49] <jdhnc> at least 2
[17:21:59] <jdhnc> I'd think you would need to know steplen/stepspace/base_time at at minimum to answer that.
[17:22:37] <IchGuckLive> i expect 10-15 rev/sec on the stepper
[17:22:58] <IchGuckLive> i dont think it gone mak it
[17:23:50] <IchGuckLive> iv seen 7000mm/min on a ballscrew at this engine
[17:25:32] <IchGuckLive> jdhnc: im on leadshie 542 with a BOB to parport
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[17:27:45] <IchGuckLive> is there a testing routine to follow for best performance or just stepconf axis test and then if stall 75% of the max
[17:28:12] <archivist> testing also includes friction and mass
[17:28:42] <archivist> never run too close to the maximum you find
[17:29:06] <IchGuckLive> 3/4 shoudt be good
[17:29:42] <IchGuckLive> i will pack 20Kg on the mashine for testing
[17:29:58] <jdhnc> put it all on one side
[17:30:00] <archivist> depends on cutting forces you are ignoring with that test
[17:30:21] <IchGuckLive> no cutting force foam cutter
[17:30:58] <IchGuckLive> but big mashine size
[17:31:00] <archivist> I used a large weight and had to later slow it down some more
[17:32:26] <IchGuckLive> as i got a max base at 4600 there is both steplen and stepspace 0
[17:32:28] <archivist> http://www.archivist.info/cnc/stagethree/P1260004.JPG was my initial weight test
[17:32:37] <JT-Shop> what is the torque/RPM curve of the stepper?
[17:33:22] <IchGuckLive> JT-Shop: http://de.nanotec.com/images/graphik/341_neu.png
[17:34:52] <IchGuckLive> archivist: Jeh thats what it shoudt look like in the garage
[17:35:22] <jdhnc> that's his living room
[17:35:35] <JT-Shop> so it really starts to peter out at 750 or so... chart is too small to see
[17:36:09] <JT-Shop> or does 48v line peter out at 1000
[17:36:12] <archivist> jdhnc, was where I used to work (workshop)
[17:36:22] <jdhnc> the only theoretical answer is max step rate.
[17:36:48] <IchGuckLive> JT-Shop: http://de.nanotec.com/schrittmotor_st6018.html?attribute_id=2&option_id=249 the most down right one is bigger if you hit it
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[17:38:00] <JT-Shop> so if I read that right you stepper can do 1000 RPM with some torque left?
[17:38:03] <IchGuckLive> is it enoph for stepconf jitter to run glxgears ?
[17:38:32] <archivist> 200-250 rpm is about the best
[17:38:52] <jdhnc> Ich: large disk access did more to latency than glxgears
[17:39:01] <IchGuckLive> JT-Shop: right bit i need 1.5 min thats double i mesured at the tread 0.8 to move
[17:39:05] * JT-Shop wonders what I sat down to do now...
[17:39:09] <Loetmichel> re @ home
[17:39:48] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop what size wire did you run to your 203's?
[17:39:48] <archivist> 500 and you have lost a third of the torque
[17:40:07] <Tom_itx> 14ga big enough?
[17:40:31] <IchGuckLive> is it right if i put to mutch Amps on the stepper it gets hot as there is no datasheet for the Epson steppers i got in hundrets
[17:40:34] <JT-Shop> power wires?
[17:40:39] <Tom_itx> yes
[17:40:58] <JT-Shop> might have been 16 or 14 can't remember
[17:41:03] <Tom_itx> ok
[17:41:12] * Tom_itx grabs the nearest lamp cord
[17:41:41] <IchGuckLive> B) lamp is needet 2
[17:42:52] jdhnc is now known as jdhNC
[17:43:07] <IchGuckLive> jdhnc: large disk access means copy a 100MB file around ?
[17:43:28] <jdhNC> ich: or a few gb
[17:43:41] <IchGuckLive> i only got 6GB
[17:43:53] <Tom_itx> ram?
[17:43:58] <Tom_itx> :)
[17:44:00] <IchGuckLive> HDD
[17:44:33] <ReadError> anyone here us the backlash setting?
[17:44:40] <ReadError> use*
[17:44:44] <IchGuckLive> ok THANKS to all mutch good info
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[17:46:19] <jdhNC> ReadError: I use it, but recognize the evil inherent in doing so.
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[17:54:01] <ReadError> jdhNC
[17:54:24] <ReadError> so basically, and change in direction in the motor, it doesnt change the position until it increments the value specified?
[17:56:12] <jdhNC> I have no idea what you said.
[17:56:48] <jdhNC> when you change direction, it rapidly adds the backlash amount in before continuing as normal.
[17:58:21] <djdelorie> it's not obvious, but the "rapidly adds backlash" should NOT cause the machine to actually move
[17:59:18] <jdhNC> it was obvious to me.
[17:59:40] <djdelorie> for us newbies, it's "obvious in retrospect"
[18:00:10] <jdhNC> <- newbie
[18:00:37] <Loetmichel> only if the backlash value fits the real backlash of that axis ;-)
[18:00:58] <Loetmichel> then the machine shouldnt move
[18:01:05] <cradek> and the slide isn't already pushed the other way by something external
[18:01:21] <archivist> then you have a rotating leadscrew hitting a stationary carriage
[18:01:23] <cradek> cutting force can easily move the table from one side of the backlash to the other
[18:01:36] <ReadError> jdhNC
[18:01:50] <ReadError> essentially it doesnt increment the DRO
[18:01:51] <djdelorie> and a Z axis is more likely to not need backlash compensation due to gravity?
[18:01:59] <ReadError> until that distance has been moved by the motors
[18:02:04] <ReadError> even though the table hasnt moved
[18:02:10] <cradek> djdelorie: some have counterweights, but sure
[18:02:25] <Loetmichel> djdelorie: depending on the weight of youz Z: right
[18:02:31] <ReadError> i have like .0034" backlash
[18:02:33] <djdelorie> mine is pretty heavy
[18:02:35] <ReadError> on my x/y
[18:02:38] <cradek> the very heavy head on my mill is counterweighted so it's very close to neutral
[18:02:41] <ReadError> but its consistent
[18:03:01] <archivist> gravity is essential for my Z :)
[18:03:14] <Loetmichel> hrhr
[18:03:26] <djdelorie> on mine, it turns out the table's wobble exceeds the backlash anyway :-P
[18:03:35] <Loetmichel> i had a backlash problem with z in my selfbuild mini-mill
[18:03:47] <archivist> I need to redo the z nut "fixing"
[18:03:48] <Loetmichel> even with the watercooled HF mill head
[18:04:07] <jdhNC> I assume backlash compensation moves do not change machine location
[18:04:21] <Loetmichel> heavy milling in stelle tended to lift the z out of the backlash
[18:04:22] <mrsun> i want the spindle motors at my "work" ... (lumber mill) ... 200kw motors for hogging of the outer layers of the logs :P
[18:04:27] * djdelorie has contemplated drilling and pinning my Z double-nut. It's come loose and dropped the Z before
[18:04:51] <Loetmichel> ... turned out to be a loosened nut on the leadscrew fied bearing
[18:04:54] <djdelorie> 260 HP? That's more power than most cars...
[18:05:26] <mrsun> two of them, one on each side =)
[18:05:27] <Loetmichel> so the leadscrew could move inside the bearing up and down
[18:06:40] <jdhNC> c'mon, I have 50% more HP than that
[18:06:49] <mrsun> hmm, might be like 225kw then ... i think they said that they were on 300hp =)
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[18:23:45] <A0Sheds> what are smaller EDM units worth these days with bad controllers?
[18:24:59] <A0Sheds> Loetmichel, do you happen to know the wavelength they use in the LED laser printers?
[18:26:48] <Loetmichel> near Infrared
[18:27:20] <Loetmichel> roundabout 800 nm
[18:27:29] <A0Sheds> thanks
[18:29:09] <FinboySlick> A0Sheds: Making progress on the STL?
[18:29:15] <Loetmichel> -+50nm
[18:29:17] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[18:29:19] <archivist> some interesting grin lenses in led printers
[18:29:49] <A0Sheds> FinboySlick, the photopolymer printers?
[18:30:21] <FinboySlick> A0Sheds: Yeah. You showed me your all open project a little while back.
[18:30:48] <A0Sheds> http://code.google.com/p/lemoncurry/wiki/main someone even started #lemoncurry it's a revolution now
[18:31:33] <Loetmichel> the Peters CNCecke forum has a thread about a photoplymer printer made with a dlp beamer (videoprojector)
[18:31:47] <Loetmichel> whioch has worked well as far as i've seen the photos
[18:31:56] <A0Sheds> I'm actually working more in 3d printing for manufacturing now, the pro units are all about printing protos
[18:32:02] <FinboySlick> A0Sheds: Hehehe, "actual hand!"
[18:32:10] <FinboySlick> not rendered.
[18:32:12] <A0Sheds> Loetmichel, yeah, I've been working with this for decades
[18:32:21] <Loetmichel> homebuild
[18:32:43] <A0Sheds> heh, yeah, people would ask about the pics, you have to be clear with some folks
[18:33:09] <A0Sheds> Loetmichel, I'm trying to get as many people to get designs out as possible
[18:33:21] <Loetmichel> hmmm
[18:33:37] <A0Sheds> 3d systems is watching quite closely
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[18:34:52] <Loetmichel> i fantasized over building a photopolymer pltter with an old laserprinter, laserdiode swithced with a UV laser and then the original polygon mirror and head used, even the formater and motor boards
[18:35:09] <A0Sheds> Loetmichel, that will work
[18:35:19] <Loetmichel> just build it so that after each formfeed the bas sinks another 1/100mm
[18:35:26] <A0Sheds> you could swap a 405nm blue ray laser
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[18:35:40] <Loetmichel> so one gets a decend resolution
[18:35:44] <Loetmichel> -d+t
[18:35:47] <A0Sheds> use visible light cured photopolymers
[18:36:09] <Loetmichel> 300dpi @ letter size(A4) sounds good for me
[18:36:12] <A0Sheds> blueray gets down to 200nm spots
[18:36:34] <A0Sheds> yeah 300dpi X Y X is easily achieved
[18:36:45] <A0Sheds> XYZ even
[18:37:26] <Loetmichel> the problem with the beamers are that the cheap DLP ones have only 1024*768 or such
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[18:37:42] <Loetmichel> so the resolution gets low or the parts gets small
[18:37:45] <A0Sheds> look for used on ebay
[18:38:23] <A0Sheds> XGA is good for 100 x 80mm parts at 0.1mm res
[18:38:47] <Loetmichel> a laserprinter can do 2400 by 3300 pixels, so the work goes bigger or the resolution gets finer
[18:39:08] <Loetmichel> easily do
[18:39:08] <A0Sheds> why i was asking about the wavelength
[18:39:09] <FinboySlick> Loetmichel: There's the potential for tiling them if you like making your life miserable :)
[18:39:17] <Loetmichel> modern ones even 1200 by 1200
[18:39:33] <Loetmichel> dpi
[18:39:57] <A0Sheds> a blueray LED array would be nice
[18:40:33] <A0Sheds> I'm working on 3d printers to print inkjet printheads and also other submicron devices
[18:40:44] <Loetmichel> and to trick the electronics of a laserjet 4 into thinking it had moved the paper thru the laser but in reality the laser head had mpoved above the polymer isnt THAT a problem
[18:40:56] <A0Sheds> being able to print laser diode arrays would also be nice
[18:41:23] <Loetmichel> its a bit more complicated with modern lasers becaus of the vast number of roller/paper/something sensor but its also doable
[18:41:24] <A0Sheds> Loetmichel, you'd need a matching photoinitiator at 800nm
[18:41:34] <Loetmichel> A0Sheds: why?
[18:41:35] <A0Sheds> 800nm is odd and tends to be slow
[18:41:58] <Loetmichel> to switrch the laser diode in the head with a blueray one or even a UV one isnt that a problem
[18:42:08] <A0Sheds> the photoinitiator needs to match the wavelength of the light used to cure it
[18:42:09] <Loetmichel> even the Curren regulator is reuseable
[18:42:38] <A0Sheds> oh, sure for a laser and mirror type printer, I thought we were discussing led array types
[18:42:59] <Loetmichel> no, i would DEFINETLY go for the laser+ mirror type
[18:43:10] <Loetmichel> all HP laserjets for example
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[18:43:23] <A0Sheds> I'll probably get around to a howto with the laser printers over the summer
[18:43:40] <Loetmichel> ('cause i am shielding them at the company i KNOW how well or not well they are build)
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[18:43:50] <A0Sheds> Loetmichel, whats their top speed per new page rendered?
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[18:44:08] <Loetmichel> last m,odel i had was 30++ pages per minute
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[18:44:31] <Loetmichel> b/w model
[18:44:43] <A0Sheds> is that for different pages?
[18:44:44] <Loetmichel> colour would be unnecessary complicted
[18:44:47] <Loetmichel> yes
[18:44:53] <A0Sheds> or 30 of the same?
[18:45:00] <Loetmichel> not copy mode
[18:45:04] <A0Sheds> @ what X Y res?
[18:45:19] <Loetmichel> 100++ pages PDF in, 30s/minute out
[18:45:28] <Loetmichel> 1200 dpi IIRC
[18:45:47] <A0Sheds> so about 2 seconds per page
[18:45:50] <FinboySlick> Would you pivot or translate the laser?
[18:45:59] <Loetmichel> definetly thranslate
[18:46:15] <Loetmichel> or you would get much distorsion in the corners
[18:46:29] <Loetmichel> the rotating mirror is calibrated to NOT do that
[18:46:52] <Loetmichel> the paper transport is linear, so the head transport has to be also
[18:47:13] <Loetmichel> not pivoting cause thet tends to chenge the distance to the polymer
[18:47:24] <A0Sheds> Loetmichel, what about the optics? What wavelengths will they pass?
[18:47:40] <A0Sheds> do they act as a filter in any way?
[18:47:41] <Loetmichel> so You would have to refocus the laser on the run
[18:47:57] <Loetmichel> normal glass as far as i remember
[18:48:12] <A0Sheds> 405nm would be nice
[18:48:20] <Loetmichel> so anything between nIR and slightly UV should be possible
[18:49:14] <A0Sheds> 385nm would not be required or lower, but it does speed up polymerization, but the limit here is 2 seconds per layer anyway
[18:50:36] <Loetmichel> A0Sheds: for a test i would use an old Laserjet 4 anyway
[18:50:48] <andypugh> If you are looking at laser polymerisation, the ones at work all use rotating mirrors to scan
[18:50:52] <A0Sheds> cheap and readily available
[18:50:55] <Loetmichel> which makes 8 sides /minute when sent fullpage bitmaps
[18:51:02] <Loetmichel> s/sides/pages
[18:51:59] <Loetmichel> and the rotating hexagon mirror is polished Aluminium and the optics are plan glass (non coated as far as i remember)
[18:52:02] <Loetmichel> plain
[18:52:15] <Loetmichel> so no probllem there
[18:52:22] <Loetmichel> with the wavelenght
[18:55:34] <andypugh> Bizarrely, I am currently looking at how to do laser modulation in EMC2. Bit for raster imaging. I don't know why, I don't own a laser machine.
[18:56:21] <A0Sheds> andypugh, how so?
[18:56:58] <A0Sheds> modulation in sync with some realtime event?
[18:57:01] <andypugh> How so what? Is it hard to believe that I don't have a laser machine?
[18:57:42] <skunkworks> we don't believe you...
[18:57:52] <andypugh> A realtime component that eats a bitmap image and outputs raster scan positions for stepgens, and laser modulaton. All in synch
[18:58:38] <djdelorie> instead of lasers, have an array of paintball guns with different color paint, and raster paint HUGE signs
[18:59:14] <andypugh> I _think_ that has been done.
[18:59:46] <djdelorie> mythbusters have a youtube video of such. Search for "mythbusters paintball"
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[19:05:53] <A0Sheds> andypugh, I've been just using EMC for control of motors and syncing the raster stuff with encoders
[19:06:27] <andypugh> I am proposing not to use "EMC" at all. This approach would use no G-code at all.
[19:06:30] <A0Sheds> andypugh, there a new dev working on realtime slicing and rendering of STL and 3d models
[19:06:48] <A0Sheds> he might integrate his work into linuxcnc for complete machine control
[19:07:07] <A0Sheds> http://voxelpress.org/rasterization_demo.html
[19:07:10] <andypugh> Slicing STL is trivial, FWIW. I have done it in 3 lines of Matlab.
[19:07:50] <archivist> how many million lines inside matlab were you really using
[19:09:10] <andypugh> I am not convinced that rasterising STL makes sense, though. I converted into swivel-knife paths, to make: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/tjht3D69CSp25i9tYwD7dtMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
[19:09:55] <andypugh> (those are dozens of layers of sticky paper assembled into foundry patterns)
[19:12:20] <A0Sheds> andypugh, what would you display as a layer on the DLP for instance if you don't rasterize the 3d model's layer?
[19:13:13] <Loetmichel> thats one advantage of using a lasprinter
[19:13:56] <Loetmichel> just send e page with the PCL/PDF vectos on it to the printer and lat the Rasterizer in the printer do the rest ;-)
[19:15:02] <andypugh> I don't think a true raster is ideal, as you waste time on scanning not-component. The ideal approach is probably a space-filling curve (like a Hilbert curve) which scans the area where you want material.
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[19:16:58] <A0Sheds> oh for scanning vs an array
[19:17:20] <andypugh> Loetmichel: In case it is any use to you, Octave code to slice an STL file into EPS. http://pastebin.com/PWCEaMNd
[19:17:59] <A0Sheds> laser 30 layers per minute, DLP can be 300 layers per minute, but the res is different
[19:18:25] <andypugh> You only need half of that code, as it also outputs HPGL for my plotter.
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[19:27:34] <Loetmichel> andypugh: in case a rotating hexagon is used for the scanning its not faster than scanning just the object
[19:28:09] <Loetmichel> A0Sheds: DLP 300 layers minute?
[19:28:16] <Loetmichel> am i dreaming?
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[19:28:34] <Loetmichel> what kind of polymer you got that hardenes THAT fast?
[19:29:51] <jdhNC> connor: what size shaft couplers for X and X?
[19:30:12] <A0Sheds> Loetmichel, yes
[19:30:42] <Connor> 3/8 to the steppers, 1/4 for the screws because you bore them out so you can tap for 8mm - 1.25
[19:30:51] <A0Sheds> 0.2 second layers, possibly faster with the right combo of resin and light
[19:30:54] <Connor> I think that's the standard pitch for 8mm
[19:31:33] <A0Sheds> Loetmichel, that would be 1920 x 1080 res using 1 DLP
[19:31:39] <jdhNC> why tap?
[19:31:50] <Connor> because they thread onto the screws.
[19:32:00] <Connor> and jam up against jam nuts.
[19:32:11] <viesturs> Hello! Can anyone suggest me, what is going to be torque difference for Nema34 stepper motor between 1/2 step and 1/10 step at 1,6 rotations per minute?
[19:32:17] <Connor> you then file flats on the screws and use the set screws + locktite.
[19:32:31] <jdhNC> oh. not just set screws?
[19:32:55] <Loetmichel> viesturs: 1/10 step and 1/2 step is no difference
[19:33:06] <viesturs> I am sorry, the motor speed should be 1,6 revolutions per second
[19:33:11] <Loetmichel> inly the 1/2 torque si ab bit uneven
[19:33:24] <Connor> no, because you use the jam nut and the coupler to take out the backlash.
[19:33:50] <Loetmichel> if the stepper donte reduce the current @ 2 windings powered vs 1 winding powered
[19:34:03] <Loetmichel> grr
[19:34:14] <Loetmichel> s/ inly/only
[19:34:16] <Connor> it goes, coupler, jamnut, washer, spacer then bearing.
[19:34:25] <FinboySlick> Loetmichel: Back on topic, isn't there a slight angle to the prism to make up for the travel speed of the sheet? If you want to move back and forth, you would have to toggle that angle every direction change.
[19:34:26] <Loetmichel> s/si/is
[19:34:44] <jdhNC> so I shouldnt buy 8mm couplers
[19:35:07] <Loetmichel> FinboySlick: who said anything about mopvin back and fort?
[19:35:09] <Loetmichel> h
[19:35:19] <viesturs> Loetmichel - thank You!
[19:35:25] <Connor> jdhNC: No, because you drill out smaller than 8mm to tap with.
[19:35:27] <FinboySlick> Loetmichel: Wouldn't that technically let you be faster?
[19:35:49] <Connor> I purchased a 8mm tap from HomeDepot witch had the correct drill bit already.
[19:35:54] <Connor> drilled and then tapped.
[19:36:14] <jdhNC> I was going to stop on the way home and get couplers bu I guess I should wait.
[19:36:26] <Connor> you using Oldham ?
[19:36:30] <Loetmichel> bu anyway: to rotate the whole head assembly by a few degerees @ the direction chenge is not a big problem and dont even needs a motor
[19:36:46] <jdhNC> they have lovejoy
[19:37:12] <jdhNC> I have some .25 at home somewhere
[19:37:21] <Tom_itx> 6.8mm for an 8mm tap
[19:37:22] <Connor> You want oldham. 0 backlash + they can tolerate missalignment.
[19:37:29] <Tom_itx> .250 is too small
[19:37:49] <Connor> Tom_itx: I drilled it out using numbered drill bit to tap it.
[19:38:29] <Tom_itx> letter H would be closest
[19:38:31] <FinboySlick> Loetmichel: I like the idea at any rate.
[19:38:49] <jdhNC> Ill wait and ordee. driving mow?
[19:39:09] <Connor> no texting while driving..
[19:41:10] <jdhNC> irc, not text. just on I40
[19:41:23] <A0Sheds> Loetmichel, http://bucktownpolymers.com/index.html they've been making ink and coatings for decades
[19:42:00] <Tom_itx> what part of I40?
[19:42:12] <A0Sheds> Loetmichel, we have to UV cure inks at even faster rates than that with 25 micron layers
[19:42:34] <jdhNC> 3 miles west
[19:42:40] <Tom_itx> of what?
[19:43:16] <jdhNC> the east end
[19:43:42] <A0Sheds> Loetmichel, some UV inkjets run a couple of meters per second linear and you only have a 0.5-1 meter of UV cure distance
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[19:44:17] <Loetmichel> nice
[19:44:22] <Tom_itx> near greensboro?
[19:44:57] <Loetmichel> hmm, anone thinks a laserjet mirror/optics can cope with a 50W IR laser?
[19:45:31] * Loetmichel would like to build a metal powrder sinter 3d printer ;-)
[19:45:43] <jdhNC> greensboro is way inland
[19:47:09] <djdelorie> seems we're back to the "printing a car out of metal dust" thread again.
[19:48:46] <FinboySlick> djdelorie: So long as I'm not the guy with a file and some rebar in charge of keeping the printer fed.
[19:48:48] <A0Sheds> Loetmichel, what the efficiency of the mirrors?
[19:48:51] <archivist> hmm could be more phun to print money
[19:49:06] <Loetmichel> A0Sheds: dont know
[19:49:15] <djdelorie> FinboySlick: I don't want to be NEAR any computerized laser that powerful
[19:49:21] <Loetmichel> they are polised aluminium
[19:49:27] <jdhNC> print a 1911
[19:49:31] <Loetmichel> uncoated as far as i can tell
[19:49:33] <A0Sheds> printing with a metalized polymer would be simple enough, then bake
[19:49:35] <djdelorie> I've seen Tron, I know what happens when computerized lasers get an attitude about humans...
[19:50:33] <Loetmichel> djdelorie: a 80W IR laser isnt THAT bad
[19:50:45] <Loetmichel> if handled with care ;-)
[19:50:50] <A0Sheds> Loetmichel, whats the spot size?
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[19:51:14] <Loetmichel> 30mm
[19:51:31] <FinboySlick> Sheesh, that's bigger than the one in Real Genius.
[19:51:36] <Loetmichel> i have a tube, but no optics and no PSU
[19:51:38] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[19:51:44] <A0Sheds> 30mm spot diameter?
[19:51:56] <Loetmichel> A0Sheds: that was a joke
[19:52:02] <A0Sheds> what are you going to print, bridges?
[19:52:12] <Loetmichel> the mirrors of the tube have approx 10mm diameter
[19:52:17] <FinboySlick> He has to make popcorn first.
[19:52:27] <Loetmichel> so thet will be the diameter of the beam
[19:52:30] <archivist> what size did god use to print the world
[19:52:36] <Loetmichel> before collomated
[19:52:39] <A0Sheds> has to be smaller than that
[19:52:45] <A0Sheds> ah ok
[19:53:17] <A0Sheds> whats the collimated spot size?
[19:53:50] <Loetmichel> archivist: about 31 pm i think
[19:54:03] <Loetmichel> ((gods printer)
[19:54:20] <A0Sheds> the big SLA printers use a 435nm 1W laser for epoxy resins, just fyi
[19:54:44] <A0Sheds> we can inkjet metals in fluids at ~70% solids using inkjet
[19:54:50] <Loetmichel> A0Sheds: i HAVE no collimation unit, no optics here, just the naked tube about 120cm long 50mm diameter
[19:55:17] <Loetmichel> so i dont know how far i can collimate it
[19:55:24] <A0Sheds> so you can print metal particles and then sinter
[19:55:47] <Loetmichel> but i THINK i sould be able to go down to 10um at least
[19:55:48] <A0Sheds> or inkjet print wax models and then cast
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[19:56:55] <Loetmichel> hmmm
[19:57:10] <Loetmichel> thinking about wax and inkjets
[19:57:25] <Loetmichel> shouldn a normal thermo inkjet head be able to handle molten wy?
[19:57:28] <Loetmichel> wax
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[19:57:36] <A0Sheds> http://reprap.org/wiki/MetalicaRap or DIY ebeam (not really) but i was hoping to not have to finish this project for them, but this could lay down a few liters or metal per hour
[19:57:49] <A0Sheds> or/of
[19:58:22] <A0Sheds> no wax through a TIJ unless it's maybe 2% solids
[19:58:46] <A0Sheds> there are some stainless heads that print wax
[20:00:04] <Loetmichel> tij?
[20:00:10] <Loetmichel> ah, thermal inkjet
[20:00:12] <A0Sheds> 100% solids at ~100pl drops
[20:00:29] <A0Sheds> sorry yeah TIJ = thermal inkjet
[20:01:08] <Loetmichel> so whre is the problem to get parafines with less than 2 percent solids?
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[20:03:10] <A0Sheds> not too much of a problem
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[20:03:39] <A0Sheds> just takes a lot more drops from TIJ to end up with solids
[20:04:04] <jdhNC>
[20:04:04] <A0Sheds> old tektronics heads print wax as well
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[20:05:06] <Loetmichel> btw: thats a 80W CO2 laser in action
[20:05:19] <Loetmichel> (a friends one, but my tube is similar)
[20:05:24] <Loetmichel> http://bambuser.com/v/2270235
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[20:06:08] <Loetmichel> and yes, the laser beam is TOTALLY open ;-)
[20:06:50] <Loetmichel> i had slight concerns every time i looked at the laser working ;)
[20:07:18] <roycroft> that thing will put your eye out!
[20:08:15] <Loetmichel> roycroft: it could, if it scores a DIRECT and focused hit
[20:08:41] <Loetmichel> the possibility is near to nil, still i gott goosebumps near the operating machine ;-)
[20:09:03] <roycroft> i still have an old phaser 780, a0sheds
[20:09:13] <roycroft> 17" color laser printer with that waxy stuff for toner
[20:09:20] <roycroft> 18" actually
[20:09:21] <A0Sheds> yeah, thats it
[20:09:28] <roycroft> one can use 12x18" paper in the manual feed tray
[20:09:33] <A0Sheds> they don't make those heads anymore
[20:09:36] <roycroft> it's a wonderful printer
[20:09:53] <A0Sheds> but you could print lost wax molds
[20:10:00] <roycroft> hmm
[20:10:02] <Loetmichel> right.
[20:10:04] <roycroft> i suppose one could
[20:10:20] <Loetmichel> a xerox phaser would be the ultma mold generating machine
[20:10:52] <Loetmichel> just convert the mechanixs and you can use the whole electronics and print headas and stuff
[20:11:01] <Loetmichel> for coloured wax models
[20:11:11] <roycroft> it would be easier to go hollywood and try to find an old replicator from star trek at auction
[20:11:12] <Loetmichel> but the stics are utterly expensive
[20:11:47] <A0Sheds> yeah, thats where they make the $$
[20:12:03] <A0Sheds> good thing i know how to make that stuff
[20:12:04] <roycroft> consumables are always where the money is
[20:12:29] <A0Sheds> like the $3000/L HP ink that only cost $5/L to make
[20:12:52] <A0Sheds> http://www.office.xerox.com/solid-ink/enus.html#_overview
[20:12:55] <roycroft> i just had this conversation with my gf
[20:13:02] <roycroft> she needed a printer for generating invoices
[20:13:12] <roycroft> so i brought her over an old apple laserwriter
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[20:13:29] <roycroft> she complained that it was too big, and that she could get an inkjet printer for $40
[20:13:39] <roycroft> i asked her how much it costs per page to use that inkjet
[20:13:48] <A0Sheds> they still make the solid ink printers, not sure what head they use now
[20:13:52] <roycroft> vs. the ~$0.005/page with the laserwriter
[20:13:53] <PCW> and $40 and $40 and $40 ...
[20:13:59] <A0Sheds> I have to get one again
[20:14:06] <roycroft> it took her a while to get it
[20:14:12] <roycroft> she kept saying "but the printer is only $40"
[20:14:37] <roycroft> add about $0.11/sheet to print on it and you could go broke quickly spending that $40
[20:14:40] <A0Sheds> I make ink and sometimes I buy a $30 inkjet just to print something
[20:14:40] <PCW> they usually give them away here to get you hooked
[20:14:46] <A0Sheds> then never use it again
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[20:15:02] <roycroft> and they always come with "starter" cartridges
[20:15:14] <roycroft> which are full-size ink cartridges that are about 10% filled
[20:15:42] <roycroft> by the time you print a few test pages to ensure that your printer drivers work you're running out to buy new cartridges
[20:16:00] <Loetmichel> roycroft: right
[20:17:30] <Loetmichel> i have a canon IP 4xxx in the company
[20:18:50] <Loetmichel> printed about 100 pages a4 labels for cutting sheet steel (print the outline and the drill centers on e sticky paper, place on the steel, driil/saw/file to fit)
[20:19:00] <Loetmichel> ... 2 colours already empty
[20:20:56] <A0Sheds> the secret about the inkjets is that they don't actually run out of ink when the cartrdige is empty
[20:21:18] <A0Sheds> they count drops and then pretend to be going low by grey scallig the prints
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[20:21:32] <A0Sheds> then they throw and ink empty message
[20:21:44] <archivist> if hey did really run out the jets could block
[20:22:09] <A0Sheds> a typical TIJ head is good for 2 liters of ink
[20:22:19] <A0Sheds> they hold about 30ml
[20:22:43] <A0Sheds> well they actually can hold more, bu they only fill to 12-30ml
[20:23:48] <roycroft> hang iv bags full of ink over the printer and stick needles in the cartridges
[20:23:55] <roycroft> problem solved :)
[20:23:58] <A0Sheds> if they let you
[20:24:07] <A0Sheds> some printers don't care
[20:24:19] <andypugh> A0Sheds: Our cars play the same game. If they actually run out of fuel it ruins the injector pump, so they pretend to tun out of fuel.
[20:24:26] <A0Sheds> some printer will count drops and just time the cartridge out
[20:24:56] <roycroft> what if you stand over the printer, shouting random numbers while it's working
[20:25:02] <Loetmichel> andypugh: it doesent
[20:25:04] <A0Sheds> sounds good
[20:25:05] <roycroft> it would get confused and lose count after a while
[20:25:06] <Jymmm> lol
[20:25:12] <Loetmichel> i have run out of diesel 2 times now...
[20:25:26] <Loetmichel> the omega engine can cope with that
[20:25:33] <Jymmm> roycroft: 1 2 3 .... 40000000000000000 =(
[20:25:35] <roycroft> running out of diesel is not good
[20:25:45] <Jymmm> POOF!
[20:25:57] <Loetmichel> it just takes a while tio refill the fuel filters/lines if run dry
[20:25:59] <FinboySlick> Loetmichel: You're too proud of that boring grey car ;)
[20:26:12] <Loetmichel> FinboySlick: its an opel
[20:26:17] <andypugh> Loetmichel: Common rail?
[20:26:20] <Loetmichel> so theres nothing do be proud of
[20:26:21] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: We know =)
[20:26:25] * roycroft drives a diesel new beetle
[20:26:33] <A0Sheds> andypugh, have you come across an open printer driver that will buffer the image and handle position info or commands to step or similar?
[20:26:41] <Loetmichel> andypugh: 2,5liters turbo diesel
[20:26:47] <Loetmichel> 6cyl BMW engine
[20:27:03] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: It may be an Opel, but you are kinda proud of it =)
[20:27:07] <Loetmichel> so yes, vommon rail
[20:27:09] <andypugh> So, how do you know it has _really_ run out of fuel, and isn't just pretending?
[20:27:11] <Loetmichel> common
[20:27:22] <roycroft> maybe it's just counting drops of fuel
[20:27:34] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: i love thet big baby, its practical and cheap
[20:27:41] <Loetmichel> i am not proud of it
[20:27:58] <Jymmm> andypugh: You show it's friend being crushed in a compactor, then say start or I push the button!
[20:27:58] <Loetmichel> andypugh: because the fuel filters were empty
[20:28:05] <Loetmichel> i looked
[20:28:08] <Loetmichel> the first time
[20:28:18] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: Ok , love, not pride =)
[20:29:08] <roycroft> ooh, my touch screen is out for delivery
[20:29:10] <roycroft> groovy
[20:29:36] <andypugh> Loetmichel: If there is an in-tank pump it might be OK. A secondary problem with the previous engine I worked on was that there was no way it could ever re-prime
[20:29:55] <Jymmm> andypugh: ?
[20:30:20] <Loetmichel> yes, i had to do qiute te time of starting before the fuel lines were filled again
[20:30:22] <Jymmm> andypugh: There HAD to be a way inititaly to prime it
[20:30:40] <andypugh> Yeah, pressure fill in the factory.
[20:30:59] <Loetmichel> but because its common rail i think there has to be a fuel pump somewhre for the 160 bar "common rail" to be filled
[20:31:04] <Jymmm> OH, so just not cap with a pressure fitting on it
[20:31:08] * archivist likes the little hand pump in the filter
[20:31:15] <Loetmichel> the injectors are the 2kBar pumps as i understand it
[20:31:41] <roycroft> the way to deal with it is to not run out of diesel :)
[20:31:50] <Loetmichel> archivist: what build year is your car?
[20:32:17] <andypugh> Loetmichel: Well, there is the ITP (Internal Transfer Pump) which is part of the HP pump, but there is a move away from them as they eat about 500w whether there is a need for fuel or not.
[20:32:18] <archivist> about 2000 its a ford mundano
[20:32:33] <Loetmichel> tha last time i saw a fuel handpump on a dieselfilter it was on a 1965 MAN truck ;-)
[20:32:57] <archivist> rover had one too
[20:33:02] <andypugh> Loetmichel: Only the VW engines use in-injector pumps, and they have stopped using them now.
[20:33:23] <andypugh> I saw one last month, on my boat.
[20:34:22] <Loetmichel> andypugh: i am still angering about the Common rail diesl on the new Omega
[20:35:01] <Loetmichel> the old one with classical 2,0liters 4 cyl turbodiesl from opel had run on vegetable oil just fine
[20:35:19] <Loetmichel> the BMW engine would die instantly... (so i was told)
[20:35:32] <Jymmm> "common rail" ???
[20:35:43] <andypugh> I am annoyed that GM got bailed out by the US govt. I thought we had "won" :-)
[20:35:59] <Jymmm> lol @ andypugh
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[20:36:16] <andypugh> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_rail
[20:36:20] <A0Sheds> i was considering importing used diesel engines from europe
[20:37:02] <archivist> my engine is well used, 180k miles on the clock
[20:37:17] <A0Sheds> andypugh, any ideas where i could find a container full of them?
[20:37:20] <Loetmichel> thats about mine
[20:37:30] <Jymmm> Will all commona rail NOT run on vegetable oil?
[20:37:41] <Loetmichel> i dont know
[20:37:41] <Jymmm> or just the bmw?
[20:37:43] <archivist> A0Sheds, ask the scrap industry
[20:38:01] <A0Sheds> archivist, they have to be in working condition
[20:38:06] <Loetmichel> i was told the vegetable oilö would clog the injectors in no time and kill the whole engine
[20:38:29] <andypugh> The problem is with CR engines that the fuelling is controlled by how long the injector is open for. If the rheology of the fuel is at all different, then the fuelling goes wrong.
[20:39:04] <andypugh> And yes, when you turn off the engine and leave vegetable oil in the hot injectors, it likely to polymerise.
[20:39:06] <Loetmichel> rheology = "thickness"?
[20:39:23] <andypugh> Loetmichel: And flow characteristics
[20:39:27] <Loetmichel> ah, i see
[20:39:51] <Loetmichel> the old diesel HAD its problem on a cold day with pure vegetable oil and no preheater
[20:39:55] <Jymmm> andypugh: are all diesel injectors?
[20:40:01] <Loetmichel> it wouldnt start
[20:40:36] <andypugh> Jymmm: Yes. As far as I know. I think they always have been, though I wouldn't put it past someone to have tried another way in the last 100 years
[20:40:45] <Loetmichel> or need a long time cranking the engine until it came sputtering to life
[20:40:57] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: how hot does it need to be?
[20:41:01] <archivist> the old air blast maybe
[20:41:06] <Loetmichel> i think pure vegetable oil is a bit to thick ;-)
[20:41:36] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: all i have heard of: 70°c is the optimum temperature to feed it to a diesel
[20:41:50] <Loetmichel> because it has the same viscosity than as normal diesel
[20:41:53] <archivist> although the injection was low pressure on hot bulb engines iirc
[20:42:11] <andypugh> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napier_Nomad A diesel engine with an afterburner.
[20:42:16] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: wouldn't an elecrically heat fuel line do the trick?
[20:42:29] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: not enough power
[20:42:46] <Jymmm> one of those pipe wraps to prevent freezing
[20:43:04] <Loetmichel> a diesel injector is cooled by excess fuel streaming back to the tank
[20:43:36] <Jymmm> but if it's too cool to begin with...
[20:43:58] <Jymmm> then the excess would heat the tank, etc
[20:44:10] <Loetmichel> so the fuel feed is much liter/minute
[20:44:13] <A0Sheds> it's really difficult to find used diesel engines for autos here
[20:44:26] <Loetmichel> an to heat that electrically would overload the battery
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[20:45:06] <andypugh> A0Sheds: Millions of them here.
[20:45:13] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: IT's only 70C, unless it was freezing outside tha'ts not much of a temperature rise
[20:45:31] <Jymmm> Just enough to get it started that is
[20:45:37] <andypugh> Loetmichel: We have a 2kW air heater in out cars at the moment. (because diesel is too efficient and can't actually warm the cabin)
[20:46:04] <andypugh> There is about 1.5kW of heated windscreen too.
[20:46:25] <Jymmm> andypugh: electric heater in a car?!
[20:46:47] <A0Sheds> andypugh, yeah, why I'd like to get a few thousand here on this side
[20:47:10] <andypugh> I think the Alternator is 240A. Of course that is no help getting the engine started.
[20:47:20] <Loetmichel> i have driven my old car 2 winters with 50% diesel, 50% vegggie oil and 3 summers with 100% veggie oil
[20:47:51] <andypugh> Jymmm: Yes. It uses coolant too, but as the engine takes 30 minutes to reach 40C coolant at -30C ambient...
[20:47:51] <Loetmichel> it had run smoot 'til the end when the rear diff started to "sing a tune" ;-)
[20:47:55] <Loetmichel> smooth
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[20:48:16] <Jymmm> andypugh: Hell at that rate do like the locomotices do..l electric motors driven my diesel generator
[20:48:37] <Jymmm> andypugh: bad ass torque too =)
[20:48:43] <andypugh> That's coming. Not from Ford. BMW I think.
[20:48:54] <Loetmichel> andypugh: GM/opel
[20:48:59] <Thetawaves> -30C... i like those temperatures
[20:49:00] <Loetmichel> Ampera/Volt
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[20:50:04] <Loetmichel> electrically driven all the time, "range extender" (small petrol generator) to recharge the battery on the fly
[20:50:06] <Jymmm> andypugh: Then just need a battery chemistry that will last 100years, store 100MAh, and the size of PC case
[20:50:19] <andypugh> Thetawaves: Trust me, driving the car and using a laptop (no gloves) to get that kind of data is no fun at all.
[20:50:59] <Thetawaves> i am very surprised you can run vegetable oil at -30C
[20:51:05] <A0Sheds> or and engine that runs on BS, never ending supply from our fearless leaders
[20:51:09] <Thetawaves> or was that only Loetmichel
[20:51:11] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, do you wire up the disable pin on the drivers?
[20:51:21] <andypugh> You can't, you need special Diesel, and that stops working at -35
[20:51:29] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx: no
[20:51:35] <Thetawaves> yeah, i thought so
[20:51:56] <Tom_itx> just take it to gnd or +v whichever it requres?
[20:51:59] <JT-Shop> I thought you could if you heated it
[20:52:10] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx: no connection
[20:52:15] <Tom_itx> ok
[20:52:26] <Tom_itx> i don't like floating inputs
[20:52:28] <Thetawaves> in fairbanks where the temperatures routinely get to -45C, they don't even sell standard diesel
[20:52:54] <Jymmm> Thetawaves: what do they sell?
[20:53:43] <Loetmichel> Thetawaves: i've had run the car on a mix in winter 50/50 diesel/veggie oil
[20:54:00] <Loetmichel> and it got only -10°C over here
[20:54:11] <Thetawaves> Jymmm, special low temperature diesel? i don't know the specifics
[20:55:20] <andypugh> "Arctic Diesel"
[20:55:32] <andypugh> (Not sure what they use in the Antarctic :-)
[20:56:49] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[20:56:54] <Jymmm> gn9
[20:58:03] <DJ9DJ> by Jymmm
[20:58:05] <JT-Shop> i think they use negatively charged Arctic Diesel there
[20:58:06] <DJ9DJ> bye
[20:58:17] <JT-Shop> bye Jymmm
[20:58:29] <DJ9DJ> hrhr
[20:58:37] <DJ9DJ> goodnight everyone
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[21:01:45] <Jymmm> Hmmm, looks like Artic Diesel == Diesel + Benzene
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[21:02:27] <Thetawaves> benzene is the antigelling agent?
[21:02:49] <Jymmm> Not sure, the MSDS is limited, still reading.
[21:02:51] <A0Sheds> sounds right
[21:02:53] <Thetawaves> or is that some other chemical in minute quantities...
[21:04:26] <A0Sheds> benzene melts at 5.5C but in combination with the diesel??
[21:06:56] <A0Sheds> Jymmm, btw, a MSDS does not need to list 100% of the ingredients, just the ones with hazards
[21:07:00] <andypugh> A0Sheds: Are you sure? I thought benzene was a liquid to quite low temps.
[21:07:06] <Jymmm> A0Sheds: I'm aware
[21:07:18] <Jymmm> A0Sheds: But the CAS numbers help
[21:07:23] <A0Sheds> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benzene
[21:07:32] <andypugh> Yes, I just looked.
[21:07:37] <andypugh> That's a surprise
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[21:09:05] <Jymmm> http://www.powerservice.com/aedf/
[21:09:32] <Jymmm> -40F
[21:09:57] <andypugh> But then eutectics are weird. FLiNiK melts at 454, LiF at 845, NaF at 993 and KF at 858.
[21:10:16] <andypugh> Sorry, FLiNaK
[21:10:26] <Jymmm> I say just start a fire under the fuel and grab some marshmellows!
[21:10:46] <Thetawaves> yeah really
[21:10:51] <A0Sheds> ok, so the wax is the problem
[21:11:05] <A0Sheds> the wax solidifies and plugs the works
[21:11:21] <Thetawaves> i went to a bonfire party at those temperatures once... we had one hell of a time getting the diesel lit
[21:11:35] <Jymmm> Thetawaves: road flare
[21:11:38] <andypugh> At -30 our oil is like caramel. And the battery chemistry slows right down. Fuel is only part of the problem.
[21:11:51] <A0Sheds> keep the wax suspended or in very small particles and it won't freeze and block the lines
[21:11:57] <Thetawaves> Jymmm, that would work, we ended up making gasoline soaked newspaper torch
[21:12:14] <Jymmm> Thetawaves: if you can find the gas to make the torch
[21:12:18] <Thetawaves> we had tried motor oil before that and it wouldn't even catch fire.
[21:12:33] <Thetawaves> in america, gasoline is everywhere
[21:12:38] <Jymmm> Thetawaves: Vaseline ignites easily
[21:12:46] <Jymmm> Thetawaves: ie, cosmetics
[21:12:58] <andypugh> Acetone (nail varnish remover)
[21:13:07] <Jymmm> A&D oientment in a first aid kit
[21:13:18] <andypugh> Top tip, though, don't try Fire Breathing with Acetone.
[21:13:25] <A0Sheds> INGREDIENTS: Petroleum Distillates, Aromatic Hydrocarbons...... that narrows it down :)
[21:13:35] <A0Sheds> ok so they just add gas to the mix
[21:13:52] <Jymmm> It's funny that nobody carrys road flares anymore
[21:13:58] <Jymmm> in their car that is
[21:15:51] <Thetawaves> http://www.brewdog.com/product/tactical-nuclear-penguin
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[21:21:50] <andypugh> "Scottish Whisky Casks" are recycled sherry/port casks themselves.
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[21:25:31] <Thetawaves> andypugh, the better the flavor right
[21:28:07] <andypugh> Whisky needs the help
[21:30:37] <Thetawaves> haha
[21:30:56] <Thetawaves> whiskey is the only thing i drink
[21:31:03] <Thetawaves> it agrees with my stomach the best
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[21:34:24] <andypugh> Oh, I like it a lot, I just don't kid myself that the colour and flavour is all from the malt and barley.
[21:38:38] <JT-Shop> so I'm making handles for my hand wheel on the lathe and I wonder if there is a better way to position the stock in the collet for each part but come up blank
[21:39:20] <JT-Shop> what I'm doing now is load tool 1 and touch off the material
[21:40:18] <andypugh> http://metal.duncanamps.com/projects/quorn/09_ball_handles.php
[21:41:41] <JT-Shop> I don't feel too bad if it took him 28 hours to make a few handles, mine only take 10 minutes each
[21:41:54] <Tom_itx> heh
[21:42:07] <Tom_itx> maybe you need an a b lathe with 2 heads
[21:42:51] <Tom_itx> are they round or teardrop handles?
[21:45:51] <JT-Shop> http://imagebin.org/210027
[21:46:48] <JT-Shop> one left to go on that one
[21:46:57] <andypugh> What material?
[21:49:30] <A0Sheds> http://chicago.craigslist.org/nch/tls/2953563588.html Sheldon Lathe 10" x 56" - $800
[21:49:53] <JT-Shop> steel
[21:49:58] <andypugh> Off topic, but rather funny (how many reviews?) http://www.amazon.co.uk/product-reviews/B000KKNQBK/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1
[21:52:42] <MattyMatt> nobody says it doesn't work on bum crack. my turn
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[21:53:11] <MattyMatt> I like the way they say "at least the hairs gone, 5 stars" :)
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[21:53:16] <andypugh> MattyMatt: "I perhaps made the mistake of applying the whole tube to my crevice, smearing it around good a proper with two fingers. After no more than a minute the pain was eyewatering and it left me wimpering and incoherent."
[21:53:36] <MattyMatt> first few was enough for me :)
[21:55:42] <andypugh> There are some great euphemisms "babymaker's clockweights, … purple headed porridge cannon"
[21:56:38] <Jymmm> lol, log cabin
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[21:57:01] <andypugh> Hmm, 5 hours, one bottle of red, 41 lines of code written. Not a productive night.
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[21:57:33] <Jymmm> andypugh: Eh, not necessarily
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[21:58:01] <ReadError> alex4nder: around?
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[21:59:06] <MattyMatt> I've left my mill sitting on the axis test in stepperconf, and every few minutes I hear the motor noise change. that can only be step pulses coming through in hoise can't it?
[21:59:42] <Jymmm> andypugh: In college it took me 4 weeks to decipher one line of C code once. The instructor told us we didn't have to, then when I turned in the assigment asked if she code use my code in her next book =)
[22:00:12] <Jymmm> s/asked/she asked/
[22:01:04] <Jymmm> andypugh: Now, I'm still trying to figure out what /**/ is =)
[22:01:06] <andypugh> OK, looking in my iTunes library, where the heck did "Bye Bye Arschgeweih" come from?
[22:01:07] <Tom_itx> good you don't have to spell check code. it still runs
[22:02:40] <Jymmm> andypugh: Ina Müller ?
[22:02:45] <andypugh> AYe
[22:03:13] <Jymmm> andypugh: probably SIDE B of an album
[22:03:38] <andypugh> Translates as "Bye Bye Arse Antlers" and Wiktionary says that that refers to a tattoo on a woman's lower back.
[22:03:49] <andypugh> I do seem to have the whole albumn.
[22:03:52] <Jymmm> tramp stamp
[22:04:22] <Jymmm> tramp stamp == tattoo on a woman's lower back.
[22:04:28] <Loetmichel> arschgeweih: german for tramp stamp
[22:04:31] <andypugh> "target tat"
[22:04:48] <Jymmm> tramp stamp sound better
[22:04:52] <andypugh> I think I am going to blame Nina for that one.
[22:04:59] <Loetmichel> the tribal tatoos on a girls lower back
[22:05:27] <andypugh> Oh, I know what they are.
[22:05:39] <andypugh> But I don't know why I have the song.
[22:05:40] <Loetmichel> http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_XA93Tf_NRLo/THEikBhCjUI/AAAAAAAAAwk/-5ZGQJmKww8/s1600/1643435129_1191240247129.jpg
[22:06:48] <andypugh> There again, I have 3070 songs in iTunes, and I know I have bought 4 cassettes, zero LPs and 3 CDs in my life.
[22:07:23] <MattyMatt> were any of the cassettes Queen's Greatest Hits when you bought them?
[22:07:24] <Jymmm> andypugh: Cass Etts? what is this thing you speak of?
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[22:07:41] <Jymmm> andypugh: Nina?
[22:07:55] <andypugh> MattyMatt: Not originally, but they all seem to be now.
[22:08:32] <andypugh> Oddly, I was looking at "Compact Cassette" on Wikipeidia earlier today.
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[22:09:00] <andypugh> Jymmm: Nina is a German girl of my acquaintance. Like a girlfriend, but not.
[22:09:24] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: hmm, how younbg ARE you?
[22:09:24] <Jymmm> Heh, I'm turing a $1.99 cassette into a $100 one =)
[22:09:26] <Jymmm> andypugh: ah
[22:09:48] <andypugh> Currently somewhere off the coast of Mexico sailing round the world.
[22:10:59] <andypugh> MattyMatt: Do you have any of your cassettes? I bought a "Vanity Cassette" off of eBay ("Johnny Reb") a few years ago.
[22:11:12] <MattyMatt> I need a 12 channel logic analyser to debug this stupid 4-axis
[22:11:34] <Loetmichel> how fast?
[22:11:46] <andypugh> There is a 4-channel storage scope with printer in the skip at work at the moment.
[22:11:53] <MattyMatt> not very. 15khz max step rate on TB6560 :p
[22:12:02] <MattyMatt> waaah
[22:12:09] <MattyMatt> where's the skip?
[22:12:17] <MattyMatt> and where's my bakfiets?
[22:12:36] <Jymmm> andypugh: I have ONE cassette, only because the title list on it as I'm attempting to get all the individual songs on CD - it's a Christmas music tape.
[22:12:40] <Loetmichel> MattyMatt: get an AVR (mega8 for example) and some tiny soft to read 2 ports and strore them and send them over RS232
[22:12:44] <andypugh> Inside the building. I can rescue it if you want. It's probably trivially broken.
[22:12:54] <Loetmichel> and a PC program to look at the data live
[22:13:44] <MattyMatt> too much trouble. I'm beginning to agree with the people who say the only cure for these chinese boards is recycling
[22:14:33] <andypugh> Jymmm: This is another example of the only one I have kept: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ZX-Spectrum-Lothlorien-JOHNNY-REB-1983-Sinclair-/390332899416
[22:14:34] <MattyMatt> I do have a spare arduino and an LCD tho, now you mention it
[22:14:59] <Loetmichel> MattyMatt: i have 2 TB6560 boards here.
[22:15:04] <Loetmichel> both running like a charm
[22:15:36] <MattyMatt> chinese ones? there's a very similar german one
[22:16:53] <MattyMatt> I've patched mine so they are least fast enough to use 1/16 step, but now I've hit the pulse limit of the chips themselves
[22:17:07] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12554
[22:17:09] <Loetmichel> this ones
[22:17:56] <Jymmm> andypugh: Ah, here it is... http://www.amazon.com/Sounds-Holidays-Audio-Cassette-Various/dp/B001FWBDAS
[22:17:56] <MattyMatt> so, the german ones still explode :)
[22:18:12] <Loetmichel> (with new chips of course, the old ones erent TOO happy about me accidentally getting the polarity of the 24V 7A lead-acids to test it...
[22:18:24] <andypugh> Jymmm: $24!!!
[22:18:45] <MattyMatt> andypugh I found a bag of my old dev casettes and made the mistake of letting my fans know
[22:18:52] <Jymmm> andypugh: I got it for $2 way back when
[22:19:23] <andypugh> MattyMatt: You have fans? I would have to pay to have fans :-)
[22:19:33] <Jymmm> andypugh: I'm finding the the individual songs on CD and recreating the cassette on cd
[22:19:43] <MattyMatt> meh. fame without fortune is a pita
[22:19:55] <andypugh> Aye I can imagine.
[22:20:16] <Loetmichel> MattyMatt: i would prefer fortune without fame
[22:20:23] <Loetmichel> MUCH easier to live with ;-)
[22:20:47] <andypugh> Hmm, I visited a really cool games dev office in SF a few weeks back. Let me transfer photos.
[22:20:57] <MattyMatt> people think richandfamous is one word
[22:21:18] <Jymmm> andypugh: http://www.bonanza.com/listings/Sounds-of-the-Holidays-Audio-Cassette-from-Exxon-Various-Artists/44020826
[22:22:53] <andypugh> MattyMatt: Well, you were famously rich in about 1983.
[22:23:20] <andypugh> (but maybe only relative to your age)
[22:24:19] <MattyMatt> and very very briefly
[22:24:26] <MattyMatt> I spent it all on TRS-80s
[22:24:40] <andypugh> Well, that was silly
[22:25:00] <MattyMatt> nobody had explained Moore's Law to me
[22:25:10] <andypugh> There again, I managed to afford a single Honda CB100 with my computer whizzkiddery
[22:25:39] <MattyMatt> my XL125 got nicked
[22:26:02] <MattyMatt> it was the only learner bike my size
[22:26:08] <andypugh> You should have bought rabbits feet, not TRS-80s
[22:26:38] <MattyMatt> shoulda bought land
[22:26:46] <Jymmm> gold
[22:26:59] <MattyMatt> naah, gold is too easy to steal
[22:27:10] <MattyMatt> unless you have land to bury it on
[22:27:19] <Jymmm> so is land, just be late on a payment by 200nS
[22:27:50] <MattyMatt> mortgage isn't buying
[22:28:25] <MattyMatt> it's rent with a sunset clause
[22:28:37] <Jymmm> sunset?
[22:28:55] <MattyMatt> yeah, you may not die before you can stop paying
[22:29:14] <Thetawaves> lol
[22:29:29] <Jymmm> sounds more like bucket clause
[22:29:46] <andypugh> https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/xjaXlDeicEPXk0ok-mWK3dMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink is the office of Three Rings Design (Currently working on an official Doctor Who MMORPG)
[22:30:07] <Jymmm> andypugh: WHICH Dr Who?
[22:30:35] <MattyMatt> amy pond is easy to animate
[22:30:41] <andypugh> Wat you see behind the pool-cue pillar really is a very well stocked bar
[22:31:30] <andypugh> The open door to the right of that is a bookcase to hide the sekrit meeting room.
[22:34:14] <jdhNC> I ran across some trs80 cassettes the other day.
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[22:43:22] <JT-Shop> http://imagebin.org/210045
[22:43:41] <JT-Shop> dam that keyboard is dirty
[22:44:12] <Jymmm> not even close
[22:44:50] * Tom_itx is concerned about the spilt wine
[22:45:05] <Jymmm> Yeah, alcohol abuse!
[22:52:19] <JT-Shop> from too full of a glass...
[22:53:01] <Tom_itx> you should make that glass not so full then
[22:53:18] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: no excuse for alcohol abuse, you should have sipped off the excess
[22:54:51] <Jymmm> MattyMatt: You know, I never considered $1200 land for burying things before, but kinda interesting if you think about it.
[22:55:08] <JT-Shop> lol, watch out Jymmm I only have to install the elevator screw and the cannon is ready to fire!
[22:55:34] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Got Powder?
[22:55:53] <JT-Shop> 25 pounds or so
[22:56:08] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: WOOHOO, just dont forget the earmuffs!
[22:56:16] <JT-Shop> yea, that'
[22:56:19] <JT-Shop> s for sure
[22:57:02] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: I went in a BLm land tiny canyon once, fired by G17, couldn't hear for 40minutes!
[22:57:50] <JT-Shop> you didn't hold your mouth right... cover near ear, look away, open mouth
[22:58:15] <Jymmm> open mouth?
[22:58:56] <JT-Shop> yep, it is the way cannoners did it to let the pressure wave out
[22:59:06] <Jymmm> and I doubt I'd ever look away from target. You never know what might come into path
[22:59:07] <JT-Shop> instead of blowing out your ear drums
[22:59:37] * JT-Shop wanders off to take the wifey to dinner
[22:59:47] <Jymmm> Well, I just keep my reusable earplugs with me now
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[23:53:31] <roycroft> grr
[23:53:46] <roycroft> touchscreen arrived, and one of the crystals is broken off the controller board
[23:54:03] <roycroft> hopefully the seller will send me another board, otherwise i'll have to fix this one or send it back
[23:54:30] * roycroft was hoping to get the display working this weekend and start configuring touchy