#linuxcnc | Logs for 2012-04-23

[00:00:01] <Jymmm> pfred1: hdpe on acme?
[00:00:01] <Tom_L> bad flash on one
[00:00:07] <pfred1> Jymmm yes
[00:00:21] <Jymmm> pfred1: any play at all?
[00:00:29] <pfred1> Jymmm not that I can see
[00:00:37] <pfred1> I made the nuts thick and tight
[00:00:44] <Jymmm> pfred1: tried measuring by chance?
[00:00:52] <pfred1> with a dial indicator
[00:00:54] <Jymmm> k
[00:01:05] <ReadError> so did they get the site cleaned up?
[00:01:10] <ReadError> from the viagra
[00:01:14] <pfred1> I say 0.001 it moves 0.001
[00:01:40] <Jymmm> pfred1: if you ever have a pic of the nut, I'd like to see it
[00:01:56] <Jymmm> but no rush
[00:01:59] <jdhnc> Jymm: you want some pics of my nuts?
[00:02:16] <pfred1> only if they have hot chocolate on them
[00:02:26] <robin_sz> Tom_L, thats not a machine shop
[00:02:36] <Jymmm> jdhnc: No, I want your nuts clamped in my vise
[00:02:40] <robin_sz> Tom_L, wheres all the crap on the floor?
[00:02:40] <Tom_L> well i know
[00:02:50] <Tom_L> that's stewart / haas racing
[00:03:02] <robin_sz> do they have people come and lick it clean?
[00:03:13] <Jymmm> haas racing sounds familure
[00:03:18] <robin_sz> we dont have a CNC lathe
[00:03:19] <Tom_L> all of those shops back east are spotless like that
[00:03:26] <jdhnc> I have 2 in a box somewhere... also HDPE for 5/8" Acme
[00:03:27] <robin_sz> thats sick
[00:03:28] <pfred1> Jymmm gah the pics i took of the axis don't have the nuts on them
[00:03:28] <Tom_L> Jymmm nascar?
[00:03:41] <Jymmm> pfred1: np
[00:03:45] <pfred1> Jymmm the next time I take it apart I'll pop a pic
[00:03:46] <Jymmm> Tom_L: ah, ok
[00:03:52] <Jymmm> pfred1: cool
[00:04:33] <robin_sz> in most shops they keep about 2" of swarf onthe floor
[00:04:37] <robin_sz> and for good reason
[00:04:39] <pfred1> Jymmm the assembly is inside a box http://i.imgur.com/PHZCW.jpg
[00:04:50] <Tom_L> robin_sz yeah one of my jobs was like that
[00:04:51] <robin_sz> its to keep your feet out of the 1" of coolant
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[00:05:10] <Tom_L> i probably went thru 55 gal of coolant a shift
[00:05:21] <pfred1> Jymmm http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHPKaHLzXes
[00:05:27] <robin_sz> isnt it bad for your teeth?
[00:06:03] <Tom_L> naw
[00:06:32] <robin_sz> keeps you regualr I guess
[00:06:51] <Tom_L> they were old ww2 era bar machines
[00:06:54] <Jymmm> pfred1: what stepper driver were you using there?
[00:06:57] <Tom_L> 6 and 8 spindle
[00:07:01] <robin_sz> constpiation? not me! .. .a gallon of coolant every day keeps me regualr!
[00:07:07] <pfred1> Jymmm my homemade TB6560
[00:07:13] <Jymmm> pfred1: ah
[00:07:36] <skunkworks__> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a52_DZ8S5xg
[00:07:37] <pfred1> I made it to 1.5 ips on another run but didn't video it
[00:07:54] <Jymmm> heh
[00:07:57] <Tom_L> robin_sz, i went thru the tool room one night and found some tooling for 50mm rounds
[00:08:09] <pfred1> looks like andy's machine
[00:08:24] <robin_sz> 50mm? coo
[00:08:44] <Tom_L> back then the women ran the machines
[00:08:48] <robin_sz> yeah
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[00:11:23] <Tom_L> 50 cal
[00:11:30] <robin_sz> oh 50 cal
[00:11:37] <robin_sz> 0.5"
[00:11:39] <Tom_L> sry
[00:11:53] <robin_sz> yeah, often made in brass
[00:12:20] <robin_sz> its a nice round to shoot actually,
[00:12:30] <robin_sz> less brutal than .338 lap mag
[00:12:57] <robin_sz> I only had a play with it a couple of times
[00:13:06] <Tom_L> these were all cam drive machines
[00:13:11] <robin_sz> rigght
[00:13:21] <robin_sz> i know the sort fo thing
[00:13:32] <Tom_L> new britan
[00:13:37] <robin_sz> 40 foot long and full of widgets
[00:13:55] <pfred1> I hauled a punch card reader out once like that
[00:14:19] <pfred1> thing looked like something out of a stempunk nightmare
[00:14:51] <pfred1> it was a cube about 8 feet long 3 high 4 thick and yo ucouldn't see through it it was all these little levers and rods and gears
[00:15:45] <robin_sz> yep ;)
[00:15:54] <robin_sz> i saw some big cam autos at an auction
[00:16:05] <robin_sz> Swagelok hose fittings ...
[00:16:14] <robin_sz> they were like 40 foot long
[00:16:18] <robin_sz> 8 foot high
[00:16:32] <pfred1> I wish I'd taken a picture of that card reader it was singular
[00:16:35] <robin_sz> and had 7 stations, each doing one operation
[00:16:46] <robin_sz> its was just huge ...
[00:16:52] <robin_sz> yeah, neat stuff
[00:17:04] <pfred1> we had like 10 guys on this thing to move it
[00:17:25] <pfred1> it was like a solid chunk of metal
[00:17:56] <pfred1> but all the parts were like the size of one joint of your finger
[00:18:06] <pfred1> there had to have been tens of thousands of parts!
[00:18:27] <pfred1> I mean this thing was packed!
[00:18:53] <pfred1> it was at AT&T
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[00:19:26] <pfred1> I bet they were so happy to be rid of it it'd been idle for over 10 years and they couldn't figure out how to get rid of it
[00:20:38] <pfred1> it was like having a car in the building with no tires on it
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[00:21:42] <robin_sz> heh
[00:21:56] <robin_sz> ever seen a multi-spindle?
[00:21:58] <robin_sz> http://www.vandf.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/edwards-tool11.jpg
[00:22:26] <robin_sz> thats a small one, but scroll down to the pictures fo the business end
[00:23:31] <jdhnc> anyone have cad drawings of mesa boards? Just outline and mounting holes would be good.
[00:24:08] <Tom_L> i've asked for that previously
[00:24:13] <pfred1> they don't have that in their documentation?
[00:24:17] <Tom_L> suggested they add them to their docs
[00:24:22] <Tom_L> not that i found
[00:24:35] <Tom_L> robin_sz, not a very good pic: http://www.machinesales.com/machinery/Automatic-Screw-Machines-Mult-Spdl-CNC/0000002674
[00:24:41] <pfred1> haven't they ever looked at any datasheets? :)
[00:24:43] <Tom_L> that was a smaller 6 spindle
[00:25:06] <pfred1> you always have to supply the mechanical data
[00:25:18] <Tom_L> apparently not
[00:25:29] <pfred1> Tom_L ain't that a charmer
[00:25:30] <robin_sz> Tom_L, yeah, they are so complex internally
[00:25:49] <pfred1> what are those pipes going to it from the ceiling?
[00:25:50] <robin_sz> jdhnc, I can measure them for you if you want
[00:26:04] <robin_sz> mist extraction?
[00:26:09] <Tom_L> to remove the mist
[00:26:12] <Tom_L> probably
[00:26:22] <pfred1> why would you want to do a thing like that?
[00:26:25] <jdhnc> robin: I can do that too, just being lazy
[00:26:49] <Tom_L> i ran a row of 6 of those
[00:26:50] * robin_sz hands jdhnc a ruler
[00:26:55] <Tom_L> one was an 8 spindle
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[00:27:24] <robin_sz> Tom_L, looks lcrazy to me .. they look liek a mechanical nightmare
[00:27:34] <Tom_L> fun to set up
[00:28:02] <Tom_L> there was a site that had better pics but i can't find it
[00:28:02] <robin_sz> fun ?
[00:28:09] <pfred1> I have a bijour mister
[00:28:20] <Tom_L> took about a shift along with keeping the others busy
[00:28:36] <robin_sz> fun for me usually involves two blondes, ideally sisters ... not 6 pesky machines with more moving parts than a typewriter
[00:28:56] <Tom_L> change the fingers on the feed tubes, the collets and all the cross slide tooling and front slide drills etc
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[00:28:57] <pcw_home> jdhnc which card? most manuals have drawings in the back
[00:29:02] <pfred1> or Bijur whatever the heck it is
[00:29:24] <robin_sz> Tom_L, modern slant beds are much easier
[00:29:48] <Tom_L> oh i'm sure
[00:29:58] <pfred1> little old ugly green thing
[00:31:48] <pfred1> this is what it looks like http://www.oemsurplus911.com/hyd_a-d/images/bijur/uab220.JPG
[00:32:41] <Tom_L> haha wanna learn how to run one? http://www.mastertask.com/manufacturing/bar_machines/new_britain.php
[00:33:05] <pfred1> I donno I think I'd rather flood
[00:33:25] <pfred1> I picked up a little giant pump not too long ago that'd make a nice flood unit
[00:35:13] <Tom_L> http://www.nova-machinery.com/inventory/picture/101861-4.html
[00:36:05] <pfred1> Super Mario plumbed that
[00:36:35] <Tom_L> the main motor on em was 25-35 hp
[00:36:50] <pfred1> dims the lights clear across town
[00:37:06] <Tom_L> there was a whole room full of them where i was
[00:37:11] <Tom_L> 3 rows
[00:37:20] <Tom_L> probably 10 or 12 to a row
[00:38:03] <Tom_L> 3 different rooms held the new britain, davenports and brown & sharps
[00:40:21] <Tom_L> here's the feed tube end: http://www.nova-machinery.com/inventory/picture/101865-2.html
[00:40:48] <Tom_L> where you loaded the bar and adjusted the collet tension etc
[00:41:27] <pfred1> looks like the machine the guy got his hand caught in in The Machinist
[00:42:10] <Tom_L> umm you don't stick your hand in these when they're on
[00:42:29] <pfred1> that was the moral of that scene
[00:42:35] <pfred1> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0361862/
[00:43:06] <Tom_L> ok. back to my sherline :)
[00:43:48] <pfred1> someone asked me once what I thought my most dangerous air tool was so I thought a moment then said my blow gun?
[00:43:57] -!- mazafaka has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
[00:44:15] <pfred1> he was like your blowgun? why you got all these grinders and saws and stuff why the blow gun?
[00:44:27] <pfred1> I said that's why because it is the tool you don't think will hurt you that will
[00:44:39] <Jymmm> pfred1: your mouth?
[00:45:03] <pfred1> Jymmm no I have unregulated air blow guns
[00:45:10] <Jymmm> (not just YOUR mouth, but anyone's)
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[00:45:34] <Jymmm> pfred1: what 90psi and swarf going 200mph aint dangerous =)
[00:45:52] <Jymmm> pfred1: nor is sub-dermel injection gun
[00:46:00] <pfred1> just the air stream can blow your ear drums out
[00:46:29] <pfred1> which is why osha makes the guns be regulated
[00:46:47] <Jymmm> pfred1: and you being the rebel
[00:47:01] <pfred1> man regulated air guns are wimpy
[00:47:09] <pfred1> they kinda do it
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[00:48:28] <pfred1> doesn't everyone run more than 90 PSI too? I thought I was low at 125 over here
[00:49:04] <Jymmm> in commericals shops. domestic 90psi is typical
[00:49:38] <Jymmm> wrench, impact, nail guns, etc
[00:49:42] <pfred1> I have a friend that owned a gas station I forget what he ran but his impact guns sounded like they were about to take off!
[00:49:50] <pfred1> I think he ran 175?
[00:50:19] <Jymmm> eeeesh
[00:50:48] <pcw_home> When we were kids we used to play at the electrical supply place where my father worked, shooting balls of Duxseal through 10 ft 1/2" EMT with the (unregulated) air guns (easily hit metal buildings 1/4 mile away)
[00:51:22] <pfred1> we made a blow gun out of 1/2" EMT and found this old gear shift lever that just fit in there nice
[00:51:24] <pcw_home> (not that my father ever know about it)
[00:51:36] <pfred1> we fired it at a tree in a field
[00:51:43] <pfred1> man it'd go in a few inches
[00:52:06] <pfred1> some wire nuts just fit into 1/2" EMT too
[00:52:23] <pfred1> but we got tired of shooting those
[00:52:37] <Jymmm> pfred1: There's a tv show abotu building undeground bunkers. they use a 900mph blowgun to shoot 4x4s thru steel plate
[00:52:47] <pcw_home> (also darts made from alligator clip insulators with concrete fasteners in the front)
[00:53:26] <pfred1> I saw the Mythbusters put straw through a palm tree sort of
[00:53:37] <pcw_home> (pcw just now realizes he was a juvenile delinquent)
[00:53:48] <pfred1> who isn't?
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[00:54:14] <pfred1> I was having a barbeque once and I did some oxy acetylene balloons
[00:54:27] <jdhnc> pcw: 7i47 has great detailed drawing. 7i43 has no measurements. Looks like it is the same size as the 'bottom' set of holes on the 7i47 though.
[00:54:28] <pfred1> one guy was in the elevator installers union it blew his mind
[00:54:36] <pfred1> he was like man I got to do this at work!
[00:54:43] <pfred1> it is all in the mix
[00:55:19] <pfred1> you do just al ittle actylene then really pump the balloon up with the oxygen
[00:55:23] <pcw_home> OK Ill fix the 7I43 manual (any of the small cards have the same mounting holes so 7I33 will be the same))
[00:56:00] <pfred1> get it just right and it goes off like a half a stick
[00:57:23] <pcw_home> oxy acetylene scares me but I made rockets from CO2 cartridges and matchheads and still have all my fingers!
[00:57:56] <pfred1> I was doing them another time and a buddy if mine was standing right over it not expecting very much I was like ah, Scott you might want ot back up some
[00:58:03] <pfred1> when it went off he thanked me
[00:58:46] <pfred1> and if oyu knew Scotto the guy is like the biggest nut I ever met
[00:59:10] <pcw_home> well hard to get oxidizer and fuel more intimately mixed outside of high explosives
[00:59:41] <pfred1> the trick is put in the acetylene first just a little then turn it off and fill it with the oxidizer
[00:59:54] <Jymmm> pfred1: Start at 9:30 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbdTwa5j5tI
[00:59:55] <pfred1> either that or it just makes a big ball of fire
[00:59:55] <ReadError> game time baby
[01:00:08] <ReadError> got the computer moved
[01:00:12] <pfred1> which is kinda cool too but no big boom
[01:00:14] <pcw_home> Ive heard that static is risk
[01:00:15] <ReadError> axis hooked up
[01:00:18] <Jymmm> pfred1: 600MPH and 2x4's
[01:00:27] <ReadError> now i have about 1 hr before ambien knokcs my dick in the dirt ;/
[01:00:31] <ReadError> lets see what we can do!
[01:00:40] <pfred1> pcw_home the acetylene eats the rubber
[01:00:49] <pfred1> so you gotta make them then blow them right off
[01:01:18] <pfred1> but yeah I'd hate to be right on one when it went off
[01:02:29] <Jymmm> pfred1: That blast door WAS suppose to survive an F5
[01:02:46] <Tom_L> jdhnc, which 7i47 file are you looking at?
[01:02:51] <Tom_L> i don't think mine has a drawing
[01:03:00] <Jymmm> and is, um "FEMA Rated"
[01:03:03] <pfred1> ah preppers
[01:03:10] <ReadError> hmmm
[01:03:14] <ReadError> gotta reverse 1 axis
[01:03:29] <Jymmm> pfred1: its a show on Discovery Channel
[01:03:36] <pfred1> yeah I've seen it
[01:03:43] <Tom_L> Jymmm i saw the bunker show
[01:04:06] <Tom_L> did you see the one with the torch as a stair rail?
[01:04:17] <Jymmm> Tom_L: Got MArshmellows =)
[01:04:37] <Jymmm> Tom_L: I thought it was a pretty good idea actually
[01:04:45] <pfred1> when the world ends none of this stuff is going to help anyone
[01:05:01] <Tom_L> if you were in that desparate situation and all form of law had broken down i suppose
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[01:05:26] <Jymmm> Tom_L: WROL is the term they use
[01:05:31] <Tom_L> it may just turn into the hatfields and mccoys again though
[01:05:52] <Jymmm> Tom_L: Mad Max
[01:06:05] <pfred1> yup you're going to have to be mobile
[01:06:47] <pfred1> first off if you're in a ubnker how long before you get cabin fever?
[01:07:07] <Jymmm> pfred1: you get gameboys for that!
[01:07:40] <pfred1> peole can't handle being snowed in for 3 days
[01:08:06] <Jymmm> some of those bunkers were nice... 48" lcd, etc
[01:08:14] <pfred1> gilded cage
[01:08:30] <Tom_L> Jymmm what if the cable went out?
[01:08:45] <Jymmm> Tom_L: I think they had dvds =)
[01:09:04] <pfred1> how many times can you watch the same thing?
[01:09:09] <Tom_L> heh really
[01:09:17] <pfred1> it doesn't work
[01:09:26] <Jymmm> Well, I'd hope they wouldn't watch movies 24/7/365
[01:09:38] <pfred1> what else are you going to do?
[01:09:50] <Jymmm> sit on irc making cnc machines?
[01:09:53] <pfred1> you're in a hole!
[01:10:00] <Tom_L> the ones i think are cool are the old abandoned silos
[01:10:18] <Jymmm> Tom_L: those are kinda creepy thogh
[01:10:30] <Tom_L> we had a bunch of em around here
[01:10:32] <pfred1> I just read a book called level 4 about missile silos after a nuke war
[01:10:52] <pfred1> it didn't end well
[01:11:00] <Jymmm> pfred1: Tom_L http://www.missilebases.com/
[01:11:05] <Jymmm> buy your own
[01:11:12] <Tom_L> i've probably seen that
[01:11:43] <Jymmm> icbm not included
[01:11:44] <pfred1> just find their air pipes and plug them up
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[01:12:08] <pfred1> bend that pipe over they're done
[01:15:45] <pfred1> yeah but if it failed who cares what's he gonna do sue you?
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[01:17:24] <Jymmm> I'd think they would have a contingancy plan for that
[01:17:35] <pfred1> yeah hold your breath
[01:18:04] <Tom_L> Jymmm, have you ordered from PMDX?
[01:18:11] <Jymmm> originally they had LOX so, no biggy.
[01:18:16] <Jymmm> Tom_L: neve
[01:18:34] <Jymmm> Tom_L: you considering the $100 heatsink?
[01:18:40] <Tom_L> you linked that heat sink the other day
[01:18:53] <Jymmm> Tom_L: google is my friend
[01:18:59] <Tom_L> figured you got a commisison
[01:18:59] <pfred1> he welds with short sleeves?
[01:19:05] <Tom_L> sp*
[01:19:21] <Jymmm> Tom_L: Nope, just googled 203 heatsink or some such thing
[01:19:38] <Tom_L> i got the mpg from them
[01:20:22] <Jymmm> Tom_L: you should look at the ebay links I gave
[01:20:42] <Jymmm> Tom_L: those were the type of hatsinks that parker calls for
[01:20:50] <Jymmm> for their drives
[01:22:23] <Tom_L> http://www.ebay.com/itm/THREE-CNC-Geckodrive-G-203V-ONE-YEAR-FACTORY-WARRANTY-steppr-motor-Drvr-W-EXTRAS-/290664602039?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43acf5d9b7
[01:22:25] <Tom_L> mmm
[01:22:33] <Tom_L> not sure i'd trust that
[01:23:18] <pfred1> the only doomsday prepping you need is a nice bottle of whiskey
[01:23:27] <pfred1> and a lawn chair
[01:23:36] <Tom_L> haha, his extras are the current limit resistors :)
[01:24:51] <Jymmm> oh gawd... we dont know the repeatability... http://www.ebay.com/itm/CNC-Proximity-Limit-Detector-stepper-servo-motor-/330513407054?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4cf4225c4e
[01:25:35] <Tom_L> maybe he doesn't
[01:26:03] <Jymmm> I'm thinking of making a hand crank generator, maybe 25 watts or so. What type of motor would be best?
[01:26:23] <Tom_L> get an old tnt detinator
[01:26:47] <Tom_L> or antique phone
[01:26:59] <Jymmm> 12-24vdc
[01:27:08] <Jymmm> not 100vac
[01:27:15] <pcw_home> small rare earth AC servo motor
[01:27:32] <pcw_home> three phase rect
[01:27:34] <Jymmm> pcw_home: example link?
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[01:28:00] <Jymmm> pcw_home: of the ac srvo
[01:28:02] <pcw_home> anaheim automation. keiling etc
[01:28:33] <Jymmm> pcw_home: um, I want dc, but you mentioned ac servo
[01:28:43] <pcw_home> tough part is gearing it up enough and a rugged handle
[01:28:54] <Jymmm> hang on a sec...
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[01:29:27] <Tecan> http://i.imgur.com/l2zsk.jpg
[01:29:35] <Tecan> http://i.imgur.com/avG9L.jpg
[01:30:01] <Jymmm> pcw_home: I found this for big amps, but I'm talking something pocket sized http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgRT6WAStaE
[01:32:13] <pcw_home> DC motor brush drag is fairly painful (which is why I suggested the AC)
[01:32:31] <Jymmm> pcw_home: ah
[01:32:42] <pcw_home> is this for battery charging?
[01:32:43] <Jymmm> and the wiper motor is dc brush?
[01:32:50] <pcw_home> Yes
[01:33:01] <Jymmm> pcw_home: the video or the pocket sized you mean?
[01:33:07] <pcw_home> (but does come with a handy gearbox)
[01:33:30] <Jymmm> pcw_home: Yeah, I'll have to hit the junk yard one day
[01:33:50] <pcw_home> your application
[01:33:55] <Jymmm> pcw_home: the pocket one is to recharge batteries, lighting and radios
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[01:34:45] <Jymmm> I'm not sure how a batery that needs to be charged over 4hours is gonna work on a crank generator though
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[01:35:17] <Jymmm> but I have a few 99ยข crank flashlights that work, till you drop them =)
[01:35:50] <pcw_home> 4 hours is a pretty sore arm
[01:35:57] <Jymmm> I was thinking an old fashoin foot powered sewing machine attachement
[01:36:52] <Jymmm> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKEFohfxAs8
[01:36:54] <Jymmm> like that
[01:37:07] <pcw_home> water wheel/fabric windmill attachmenst?
[01:37:32] <Jymmm> No, the sewing machien thign works, I've used one of those long ago, very easy
[01:38:02] <pcw_home> and of course bicycle attachments
[01:38:04] <Jymmm> you press down, and it comes back up on it's own, then you press down again
[01:38:20] <Jymmm> very little fatigure
[01:38:33] <Jymmm> more like tapping your foot to music
[01:38:43] <Tecan> u guys like my room ?
[01:39:07] <Jymmm> pcw_home: But, I want to generate power, not make clothes =)
[01:39:57] <Jymmm> pcw_home: I also need to figure out how to waterproof the shaft
[01:40:05] <r00t4rd3d> http://i.imgur.com/ukIeN.jpg
[01:40:14] <pcw_home> I still have my grandmothers treadle sewing machine
[01:40:30] <Jymmm> pcw_home: treadle?
[01:41:13] <Jymmm> r00t4rd3d: tractor powered cnc?
[01:41:47] <Jymmm> takeoff attachment?
[01:42:22] <Jymmm> pcw_home: is there something I could salvage a rare earth ac servo motor from?
[01:43:40] <pcw_home> some newer washing machines have PMSMs (basically the same thing)
[01:44:12] <Jymmm> pcw_home: I'm talkgn dumpster/craiglist diving
[01:44:47] <pcw_home> dont know off hand
[01:44:52] <ReadError> hmmm
[01:44:53] <jdhnc> before you drill & tap the panel, make sure that 6/32 bolts actually fit through the holes
[01:45:04] <ReadError> is there a way to scale this sample
[01:45:08] <Jymmm> pcw_home: ok
[01:45:14] <ReadError> its trying to draw it suuuuuper small
[01:46:05] <pcw_home> jdhnc .125 holes so 4-40 or 3 mm
[01:47:39] <jdhnc> yeah, I even measured the hole... I was just thinking 6 was smaller.
[01:49:01] <r00t4rd3d> lol
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[02:01:55] <ReadError> hey
[02:01:57] <ReadError> alex4nder,
[02:01:59] <ReadError> or joe9
[02:02:03] <ReadError> microstepping?
[02:02:46] <alex4nder> they're tiny steps
[02:02:50] <alex4nder> using elf shoes
[02:02:56] <ReadError> yea
[02:03:01] <ReadError> but
[02:03:05] <ReadError> i need them dont i ?
[02:03:13] <ReadError> it was drawing super tiny pictures
[02:03:14] <alex4nder> yah, your G540 uses them
[02:03:18] <ReadError> so
[02:03:20] <ReadError> 8?
[02:03:21] <Jymmm> ReadError: you need elf shoes?
[02:03:34] <ReadError> certainly
[02:03:44] <Jymmm> oh, well,o okey then =)
[02:03:49] <ReadError> it seems go further
[02:03:52] <alex4nder> ReadError: 10
[02:03:54] <ReadError> when microstepping is on
[02:05:34] <ReadError> also
[02:05:37] <ReadError> its backwards kinda
[02:05:48] <ReadError> when i start the emc demo
[02:05:51] <ReadError> it goes up and out
[02:05:58] <joe9> ReadError: where do you see the "microstepping"?
[02:06:01] <ReadError> so do i need to use negative lenght?
[02:06:18] <ReadError> like from my perspective
[02:06:21] <ReadError> its upsidedown
[02:06:25] <ReadError> going the other direction
[02:08:11] <alex4nder> you need to invert the backwards axis
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[02:20:01] <jdhnc> PCW: is the pwm output inverted?
[02:22:42] <ReadError> i think i hit a milestone alex4nder!
[02:22:44] <ReadError> pic enroute
[02:23:27] <ReadError> http://p.twimg.com/ArIcM8xCEAACEFi.jpg:large
[02:23:33] <ReadError> i had to like hold it with my finger
[02:23:35] <ReadError> the sharpie
[02:23:36] <ReadError> ;)
[02:28:02] <Tecan> whats the best type of saw to use on aluminum to get scrap back ?
[02:28:11] <Tecan> like the filings
[02:28:42] <alex4nder> Tecan: like to collect them?
[02:28:42] <ReadError> i use a jigsaw+hacksaw blade
[02:28:50] <alex4nder> ReadError: congratulations
[02:28:53] <ReadError> then hit it with a file
[02:29:03] <ReadError> alex4nder: but you see what im saying ?
[02:29:12] <ReadError> its like rotated strange
[02:29:17] <ReadError> i had to start it in the far back right corner
[02:29:26] <ReadError> i want to start it in front left corner
[02:29:26] <alex4nder> ReadError: yah, your Z is backwards and so is your X
[02:29:35] <ReadError> but they move right in the arrows
[02:29:36] <alex4nder> er Y is backwards
[02:29:39] <djdelorie> if you invert both X and Y, you rotate it 180 degrees
[02:29:50] <ReadError> the arrow keys i mean
[02:30:00] <alex4nder> your perspective on the arrow keys is wrong
[02:30:15] <alex4nder> movement is relative to the work
[02:30:24] <djdelorie> rotate your keyboard and/or machine so that the arrow keys point in the same physical direction as the jogs they cause
[02:30:25] <ReadError> so, do i just flip the invert on direction box?
[02:30:33] <alex4nder> yes
[02:30:45] <alex4nder> and make sure that when you send Z positive, it moves up
[02:31:16] <ReadError> im just glad its somewhat mechanically sound
[02:31:20] <alex4nder> that's great.
[02:31:24] <ReadError> :O
[02:31:30] <ReadError> i can change the configs up later
[02:33:19] <ReadError> im kind of confused about home value
[02:33:24] <djdelorie> note on jogging direction: if your table is the moving part, jogging left should move the table RIGHT so that the pen moves "right" relative to the table
[02:33:25] <ReadError> if i set 1 as home for x
[02:33:44] <ReadError> is that 1" over the last thread usable on x axis?
[02:34:08] <ReadError> ohhh
[02:34:11] <ReadError> that makes sense
[02:34:17] <ReadError> my perspective is wrong
[02:34:23] <ReadError> whats super strange is
[02:34:31] <ReadError> i had 0 or 1 for microstep
[02:34:39] <djdelorie> whatever coordinate you gave for the home switch is where the home switch "is" and everything else is relative to that
[02:34:41] <ReadError> it was doing like incredibly small pictures
[02:34:41] <Tecan> who makes their own stepper drivers here ?
[02:35:03] <ReadError> djdelorie does i think Tecan
[02:35:10] <djdelorie> I made my own servo driver
[02:35:31] <Tecan> are those linsteppers good ?
[02:36:10] <Tecan> or you just did a custom h bridge ?
[02:36:50] <djdelorie> Tecan: I used a three-phase driver chip: http://www.delorie.com/electronics/bldc/
[02:37:45] <Tecan> hall encoder hmm
[02:38:35] <Tecan> djdelorie u do the pcb too ?
[02:38:42] <djdelorie> yup, and the firmware
[02:38:53] <Tecan> nice
[02:39:17] <Jymmm> djdelorie CAN?
[02:39:29] <djdelorie> YES, DJDELORIE CAN!!! ;-)
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[02:39:57] <Jymmm> hahaha
[02:40:14] <Jymmm> djdelorie: realbus drivers =)
[02:40:28] <djdelorie> the chips have CAN built-in, you just need a cheap transceiver chip, it was trivial to add it and worry about how useful it is later
[02:40:46] <djdelorie> I figure I can at least broadcast operation status on them for a status panel or something
[02:41:22] <Jymmm> djdelorie: heh, I dont really know much of anything about CAN bus
[02:41:36] <djdelorie> but CAN might be deterministic enough to use it as a connection between linuxcnc and the machine
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[03:56:16] <CareBear\> alex4nder : USB is awesome
[03:56:32] <CareBear\> alex4nder : just not for the linuxcnc architecture
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[04:02:08] <alex4nder> CareBear\: USB isn't awesome for CAN
[04:02:31] <alex4nder> or anything else that you care about determinism and latency
[04:02:44] * djdelorie wonders if the 480mbit USB is better enough
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[04:03:07] <alex4nder> it's a bit better
[04:03:51] <CareBear\> alex4nder : there is perfect determinism in all USB
[04:04:02] <alex4nder> alright, you win.
[04:04:09] <CareBear\> alex4nder : it's just not designed to be fast enough for what linuxcnc needs
[04:04:26] <CareBear\> (by all USB I mean all speeds)
[04:05:03] <CareBear\> in particular USB is not designed for round trips
[04:05:17] <CareBear\> it is optimized for somehow independent input and output
[04:06:09] <CareBear\> so it's a bad fit for linuxcnc which requires constant measurement and reaction
[04:07:26] <Tecan> does it get much reaction other than limit switches ?
[04:07:42] <CareBear\> compensation?
[04:07:51] <CareBear\> from feedback
[04:07:54] <CareBear\> or based on
[04:08:03] <Tecan> it just sends the steps i thought
[04:08:13] <CareBear\> there is no feedback?
[04:08:21] <alex4nder> not in most people's setups.
[04:08:25] <CareBear\> um
[04:08:40] <alex4nder> but the ones that are complicated (like servos) do
[04:08:47] <CareBear\> that's, um, I see
[04:09:03] <CareBear\> well without feedback of course it's super easy to use USB
[04:09:23] <CareBear\> you just need to establish timebase difference between linuxcnc and the microcontroller firmware
[04:09:40] <CareBear\> or rather, provide timestamps from linuxcnc using the microcontroller timebase
[04:09:42] <djdelorie> except my servos, because, of course, my setup is different than pretty much everything else on the planet. As usual :-P
[04:10:16] <djdelorie> CareBear\: USB2 is not fast enough anyway; 1ms per cycle
[04:10:18] <CareBear\> and let the microcontroller shoot out control with perfect timing, because you know, it is only doing one thing
[04:10:24] <CareBear\> djdelorie : not so
[04:10:36] <Tecan> carebear some boards have gcode interpreters built into them too
[04:10:48] <CareBear\> djdelorie : USB 2.0 first of all does not imply high speed.
[04:10:51] <djdelorie> only if linuxcnc can hand more intelligence off to the controller cards
[04:10:57] <alex4nder> right
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[04:11:05] <CareBear\> obviously it must
[04:11:13] <alex4nder> well obvious to some
[04:11:20] <djdelorie> but then you have to coordinate timing across all the controllers
[04:11:23] <CareBear\> and when there is no feedback that becomes really trivial
[04:11:35] <djdelorie> no, not trivial
[04:11:43] <Tecan> move buffer's would work without the timestamp thing
[04:11:52] <djdelorie> the controllers still need to coordinate steps across all axes to follow the path accurately
[04:12:11] <djdelorie> and 12 mbit/sec USB is still just not fast enough
[04:12:13] <CareBear\> djdelorie : the scheduling was already created by linuxcnc right?
[04:12:34] <Tecan> djdelorie how fast is the printerport ?
[04:12:55] <djdelorie> PP is about 100x faster than usb, on a per-command basis
[04:13:10] <CareBear\> now you are just trolling!
[04:13:16] <CareBear\> :)
[04:13:35] <djdelorie> usb polling is 1ms granularity
[04:13:58] <CareBear\> no
[04:14:13] <CareBear\> a full speed frame is 1ms
[04:14:26] <CareBear\> but more than one packet fit into a frame
[04:14:55] <djdelorie> but you don't know where that packet goes, so your timing granularity is still 1ms
[04:15:03] <djdelorie> it's like having a jitter of 1000000
[04:15:21] <CareBear\> the bus is not used for timing
[04:15:25] <CareBear\> the bus is used to transfer data
[04:15:36] <CareBear\> the data contains instructions on what to do when
[04:15:45] <djdelorie> to do any better, you need to have intelligence on the device end of the USB link, and at that point, you're basically writing another linuxcnc
[04:15:45] <CareBear\> as long as data arrives before "when" all is good
[04:16:11] <CareBear\> we had this discussion a while ago
[04:16:27] <CareBear\> but what changed is the information that there is really no feedback
[04:16:57] <djdelorie> even without feedback, stepper timing needs to be coordinated across axes
[04:16:59] <CareBear\> this makes it much easier to let linuxcnc run "ahead of time" and get the controller instructions in advance
[04:17:18] <CareBear\> sure - a given micro will have more than one timer so it can do more than one axis
[04:17:42] <CareBear\> when timers run out it becomes more difficult, but I think it's easy enough to find a few micros with three timers
[04:18:01] <djdelorie> heh.. the rx has zillions of timers, *that* isn't the problem
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[04:19:18] <CareBear\> share the peripheral clock for them and the common timebase is established
[04:19:27] <CareBear\> the control clock domain starts there
[04:19:42] <djdelorie> the problem is writing the software to do it all
[04:19:53] <djdelorie> linuxcnc already does it all
[04:20:02] <alex4nder> djdelorie: I think the software is the "trivial" part. ;)
[04:20:11] <CareBear\> I actually think so too
[04:20:19] <CareBear\> not that I've ever looked at linuxcnc code
[04:20:19] <djdelorie> you basically end up rewriting linuxcnc to run on your mcu, and feed it gcode
[04:20:21] <CareBear\> but still
[04:20:26] <alex4nder> djdelorie: exactly
[04:20:28] <CareBear\> well that's one way
[04:20:34] <CareBear\> but I think that's way too "fat"
[04:20:37] <alex4nder> or compiled g-code
[04:20:41] <djdelorie> and *that* only works if you have *one* mcu. I have three.
[04:20:51] <alex4nder> CareBear\: the point is it's not "trivial" .. a lot of work has gone into getting LinuxCNC where it is
[04:20:59] <alex4nder> "trivial" is taking a piss
[04:21:04] <alex4nder> or putting on your shoes
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[04:21:21] <CareBear\> alex4nder : what's the timebase in linuxcnc?
[04:21:27] <alex4nder> CareBear\: RTAI threads
[04:21:36] <alex4nder> with periodic firing
[04:21:40] <CareBear\> alex4nder : they get configured with a period ok
[04:21:54] <CareBear\> yeah that needs to change a little
[04:22:00] <CareBear\> or it could actually still be the same
[04:22:05] <alex4nder> it could be the same
[04:22:14] <CareBear\> just make the period a good deal shorter, and put a queue at the output
[04:22:32] <CareBear\> have the thread do nothing when the queue is full
[04:22:44] <CareBear\> ie. buffer events a bit ahead of time
[04:22:49] <CareBear\> transmit buffer to micro
[04:22:50] <alex4nder> I was looking at implementing the RT functionality on an MCU using an existing RTOS, and went through all of the LinuxCNC code.. and you'd basically have to put the kinematics, motion control, and some bit of HAL on the uC
[04:23:09] <alex4nder> and queue both directions over your control link (e.g. USB)
[04:23:20] <CareBear\> alex4nder : not talking about two directions
[04:23:30] <alex4nder> CareBear\: well how do you know where your uC actually ended up?
[04:23:31] <CareBear\> alex4nder : talking about the (apparently) common case of no feedback
[04:23:41] <alex4nder> CareBear\: you're mixing two things up
[04:23:50] <alex4nder> there's the RT feedback, and then there's the whenever feedback
[04:23:51] <CareBear\> is there feedback or not?
[04:24:00] <alex4nder> well you want to see where your mill currently is
[04:24:11] <alex4nder> that's some data that needs to be reported back to the UI
[04:24:11] <Tecan> alex thats determined by what you've sent it
[04:24:20] <alex4nder> Tecan: only if you assume your mill actually got where you asked
[04:24:35] <Tecan> thats what it does now
[04:24:36] <CareBear\> this is the essence of feedback
[04:24:40] <alex4nder> no
[04:24:41] <alex4nder> it's not
[04:24:49] <CareBear\> you guys have to fight this out
[04:24:54] <alex4nder> fight what out?
[04:24:56] <CareBear\> when you're done let me know if there's feedback or no :)
[04:25:05] <alex4nder> read the code
[04:25:15] <djdelorie> two types of feedback
[04:25:15] <CareBear\> I'd rather read the fight
[04:25:17] <alex4nder> in the long run, you have two information streams
[04:25:26] <alex4nder> feedback that's RT, and feedback that isn't
[04:25:32] <alex4nder> you can't run a servo PID loop without realtime feedback
[04:25:33] <djdelorie> what you're missing is feedback about how many instructions your mcu has actually done so far
[04:25:45] <alex4nder> right
[04:25:49] <djdelorie> the other type is the servo encoder feedback, where linuxcnc actually runs the motor control loop too
[04:26:01] <alex4nder> exactly, and they're fundamentally different in need
[04:26:16] <alex4nder> one has really hard RT requirements, one is kinda "meh" about RT
[04:26:29] <CareBear\> I know all the properties
[04:26:37] <alex4nder> then why are you asking questions?
[04:26:39] <CareBear\> but you really have to decide on if there is feedback or not
[04:27:01] <alex4nder> if you don't understand the fundamental difference between those two concepts, you don't understand enough to architect a solution
[04:27:16] <CareBear\> I understand it perfectly
[04:27:30] <Tecan> CareBear maintains libusb
[04:27:38] <CareBear\> nod
[04:27:39] <alex4nder> I know who he is.
[04:27:42] <alex4nder> I just don't think he gets it.
[04:27:44] <CareBear\> I get it
[04:27:46] <alex4nder> alright
[04:27:52] <alex4nder> let me know when the software is done.
[04:28:00] <CareBear\> point is, it was said that there is usually no feedback
[04:28:07] <CareBear\> that changes things from last time we talked about this :)
[04:28:15] <alex4nder> nope.
[04:28:17] <djdelorie> sigh. There are two types of feedback
[04:28:33] <CareBear\> djdelorie : so which type is it that there usually isn't ?
[04:28:45] <Tecan> we all understand now thanks for the enlightenment :)
[04:28:47] <djdelorie> servo feedback
[04:28:51] <CareBear\> if the statement is true only for one? :)
[04:29:04] <djdelorie> steppers do not need *real time* feedback
[04:29:11] <Tecan> thats what most use
[04:29:21] <djdelorie> right. LinuxCNC supports more than just steppers
[04:29:40] <CareBear\> that's fine - I'm not saying that a simple solution can cover all use cases
[04:29:52] <CareBear\> but maybe there is one that can cover some common ones
[04:30:17] <djdelorie> obviously you can control a CNC machine with a usb interface - look at makerbots
[04:30:58] <CareBear\> we looked at making a decent controller for the reprap
[04:31:32] <djdelorie> the more "decent" you want, the more processing power it takes to coordinate it all, and the more you need the PC to do the work with a real-time link to the hardware
[04:31:38] <CareBear\> it all just barely works because the controller is so stupid
[04:32:30] <CareBear\> I think 3 axes could be done on the larger cortex-m3s
[04:32:39] <CareBear\> or some similar class
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[04:34:17] <Valen> or you just put a $100 mini-itx board in it and its all taken care of and you don't need a seperate computer to load files and such
[04:34:50] <CareBear\> absolutely
[04:37:04] <Jymmm> what are you all babbling about?
[04:37:05] <Thetawaves> i want to get a atom in pc104 format with lots of gpio
[04:37:25] <Valen> I don't think intel chips have gpio any more
[04:37:57] <Jymmm> Valen: Heh, I just found an atom board that has six, count em SIX GPIO pins =) lol
[04:38:13] <Thetawaves> Valen, yeah... i've only seen spi based gpio
[04:38:58] <Jymmm> Valen: I can take over the world now with 6 GPIO pins =)
[04:39:08] <djdelorie> check out http://pandaboard.org/ - dual-core 1GHz with lots of GPIO, it's just not an intel clone :-)
[04:39:38] <Jymmm> djdelorie: arm though
[04:39:46] <djdelorie> i.e. "it's just not an intel clone"
[04:40:05] <Jymmm> djdelorie: Ah, I thought that was a marketing slogan
[04:40:32] <Jymmm> djdelorie: "This is not your Dads truck"
[04:40:41] <Thetawaves> a lot of the atom boards have this SMSC SCH3114 SuperIO device: which has 6 gpio
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[04:41:18] <Thetawaves> pandaboard is nogo for linuxcnc
[04:41:31] <Jymmm> Thetawaves: http://www.jetwaycomputer.com/NF99.html
[04:41:43] <Jymmm> $180 USD
[04:42:28] <Thetawaves> supposedly there is a cortex a8 port
[04:42:38] <Thetawaves> of rtai, pandaboard is cortex a9
[04:43:19] <Thetawaves> Jymmm, how many pins on the gpio header?
[04:43:35] <Jymmm> 8, but 6 io
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[04:44:09] <djdelorie> the jetway has pci; you could just drop a mesa card in there
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[04:44:50] <Thetawaves> if you want to go that route, just get a mini-itx barebones kit for 80$
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[04:45:43] <kaz> has anyone here rebuilt a kernel to try and fix the SMI issue?
[04:45:47] <Thetawaves> but you have a valuable point, why recreate mesa functionality?
[04:47:51] <Jymmm> $75 USD http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813121442
[04:48:45] <djdelorie> must add memory
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[04:55:43] <Tecan> im going to use your maze generator :)
[04:56:35] <djdelorie> hmmm... cnc wooden mazes...
[04:56:58] <Tecan> was thinking opengl mazes
[04:57:31] <djdelorie> the algorithm is brutally stupid once you realize that computers don't do mazes the same way people do
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[04:57:37] <Tecan> was that a computer science project ?
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[04:57:43] <djdelorie> no, I just like mazes
[04:57:46] <Tecan> the left or right hand maze solver
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[04:58:02] <djdelorie> no, the "fill in the dead ends" solver
[04:58:26] <djdelorie> I use maze generators as a way of learning languages
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[04:58:41] <djdelorie> the algorithm is simple but it uses many of the language features
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[05:04:09] <CareBear\> kaz : get a system supported by coreboot. the kernel can't do much about SMM
[05:04:35] <CareBear\> asrock e350m1 is fanless miniitx
[05:04:42] <CareBear\> unsure about io
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[05:08:29] <kaz> Has anyone successfully tuned their EMC2 installation to turn off SMI?
[05:11:13] <CareBear\> you can't really turn it off
[05:11:41] <CareBear\> if the firmware uses SMM it's there until you reset
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[05:12:50] <Valen> Jymmm: your gpio is probably coming from some onboard io device
[05:13:05] <CareBear\> the e350m1 has a bunch of empty pads, I guess you can find LPC on there
[05:13:15] <CareBear\> why is the sun up at 7 am?
[05:13:18] <CareBear\> that's just wrong
[05:13:19] <CareBear\> :(
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[05:16:00] <kaz> CareBear\: apparently you can turn off SMI: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?FixingSMIIssues
[05:16:48] <kaz> Just wondering if anyone here has gone through the arduous process of rebuilding kernels to make this work.
[05:22:26] <CareBear\> for newer hardware it will not work
[05:22:36] <CareBear\> suggest get e350m1 and run coreboot
[05:24:21] <kaz> any way to tell which hardware it will and won't work on?
[05:25:56] <kaz> what's the benefit of e35ml + coreboot?
[05:28:13] <alex4nder> stm32F4 context switch time ... 400 nS
[05:28:26] <alex4nder> chibiOS is smoknig
[05:29:45] <kaz> can you run emc2 on these platforms?
[05:32:09] <alex4nder> not as it's currently put together.
[05:37:11] <Jymmm> Valen: click on RESOURCES tab http://www.jetwaycomputer.com/NF99.html
[05:39:02] <kaz> is there a way to know what hardware can handle disabling of SMI?
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[05:53:18] <kaz> any ideas?
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[06:04:40] <CareBear\> alex4nder : why not on the 350m1?
[06:05:34] <CareBear\> kaz : it's difficult to find out. it's not something that ever shows up in marketing material, because it is in part kept a dirty secret so that network stacks can run invisibly behind the OS
[06:06:00] <alex4nder> that was wires crossing, I'm talking about the cortex-M4
[06:06:25] <CareBear\> right, ok, I guessed, but not sure if kaz got that :)
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[06:23:01] <Valen> Jymmm: doesn't mean its not handled by a superio chip
[06:23:19] <Jymmm> does it matter?
[06:23:26] <Jymmm> it's not coming from the cpu
[06:23:27] <Valen> not paticularly
[06:23:37] <Jymmm> then why menion it?
[06:23:43] <Valen> I do wonder about EMC on the rasberry pi though
[06:23:46] <Valen> that could be neat
[06:24:11] <Valen> more latency to gpio thats off board
[06:24:19] <Valen> its probably accessed via some kind of spi bus
[06:24:27] <Valen> well off "cpu" anyway
[06:24:30] <Jymmm> Valen: I gave you the link, go read
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[06:26:15] <Valen> eh looks like there is something do do with spi around it
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[06:33:38] <CareBear\> Valen : I guess the gpios are direct on the soc
[06:33:47] <CareBear\> but of course there are buses around the cpu core
[06:34:05] <CareBear\> since the components are really closed it may not be so easy to find out
[06:34:28] <CareBear\> there's also the cute wifi soc that me and alex4nder were shown today
[06:35:07] <CareBear\> http://shop.8devices.com/carambola
[06:35:24] <CareBear\> it does have gpio direct on the soc
[06:35:37] <CareBear\> it's not terribly high performance though
[06:36:18] <CareBear\> add baseboard with an FPGA and done
[06:36:26] <CareBear\> 50 eur controller
[06:50:19] <Thetawaves> is there rtai for mips?
[06:53:25] <Thetawaves> no rtai for mips, but there was in the past
[06:53:51] <Thetawaves> perhaps you can get a powerpc chip with gpio?
[07:01:09] <Thetawaves> powerpc dev kits are 80$
[07:01:12] <Thetawaves> 800$
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[07:19:37] <DJ9DJ> moin
[07:19:54] <DJ9DJ> hi Jymmm :)
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[07:36:39] <Jymmm> hola
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[08:20:32] <ReadError> http://www.amazonsupply.com/gateway///ref=pe_button
[08:20:35] <ReadError> awwwwwwwwwwwwwwww yea
[08:44:39] <alex_joni> ReadError: cool
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[08:52:29] <Tom_itx> another chinese broker?
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[09:03:43] <ReadError> nope Tom_itx
[09:03:50] <ReadError> everything is shipped from amazon
[09:03:56] <ReadError> so you get it super fast ;)
[09:04:12] <ReadError> free 2day shipping on orders $50+
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[10:13:34] <Loetmichel> mornin'
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[11:39:34] <r00t4rd3d> April 23, snow day :/
[11:39:55] <r00t4rd3d> it was 80 out last week
[11:39:58] <r00t4rd3d> wtf
[11:40:44] <jdhnc> 60s-80 here this week.
[11:51:06] <jthornton> feels like I drove 2,500 miles in 5 days but I only drove 2,075 miles...
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[11:56:41] <archivist> jthornton, been collecting goodies?
[11:59:14] <jthornton> visiting family
[12:00:04] <archivist> we had noticed you were awol :)
[12:00:22] <jthornton> yea, and I'm one tired puppy today
[12:01:24] <archivist> I went for the long walk last thursday..machine tool show, takes a day or three to recover
[12:01:55] <jthornton> see anything neat?
[12:02:31] <archivist> end mills with er collet tapers
[12:03:00] <jthornton> that's wild, insert end mills?
[12:04:10] <archivist> well an er spindle and you have fixed tool lengths when changing
[12:05:38] <archivist> Im thinking to make some arbors to take cutters with the taper on so my lengths are then fixed too
[12:11:44] <jthornton> you got a link to them I'm not understanding what they look like?
[12:12:39] <archivist> I just been trawling the leaflets, I dont think I got one and cannot remember the makers name at the moment
[12:12:48] <jthornton> ok
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[13:03:58] <ReadError> im kind of confused between homing and touchoff
[13:04:02] <ReadError> could anyone help me?
[13:04:12] <ReadError> "home" is an absolute reference on the machine
[13:04:30] <ReadError> irregardless of what is being cut, for example, all axis centered
[13:04:41] <ReadError> touch off is relative to the piece being cut?
[13:08:06] <JT-Shop> normally home is some corner of the machine typically left rear top
[13:09:04] <JT-Shop> if you don't have a tool changer then touch off is to the material
[13:09:39] <joe9> ReadError: have you received the mills?
[13:09:53] <joe9> the drill bits, to be precise.
[13:10:03] <ReadError> joe9: wednesday
[13:10:11] <ReadError> let me check the package again though
[13:11:04] <joe9> oh, ok.
[13:12:29] <ReadError> UPS is saying wed
[13:12:43] <joe9> ReadError: ok, thanks.
[13:17:33] * freespace is also a little weary of touchoff
[13:18:47] <Jymmm> HOME: an ABSOLUTE point on yur machine, like JT-Shop said: left, rear, top.
[13:20:54] <Jymmm> TOUCH OFF: A RELATIVE point. Say you had a 12"x12" blank PCB. and you already used 3 sq inches of it in the lower left (0,0 - 3,3) corner. You could "TOUCH OFF" at 3,3 (absolute) now so it is now 0,0 relative to cut another pcb
[13:23:04] <JT-Shop> hi Jymmm
[13:23:21] <freespace> i have to confess, what i needed to do that i just re-homed on 3,3...
[13:23:41] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: howdy!
[13:23:45] <freespace> i can see why it would be desirable to NOT do that and throw away the home position on a more sophisticated machine
[13:24:08] <freespace> s/and/and not/
[13:24:28] <Jymmm> freespace: Yeah, like if you don't have limit switches as example.
[13:24:34] <JT-Shop> you don't want to "throw away" the home position on any machine really
[13:25:01] * freespace doesn't have limit switches
[13:25:19] <Jymmm> Og maybe you dont want you machichine to slam into the end of travel
[13:25:20] <freespace> right now, i do very small jobs on a large machine, and there is no definitely home position as such
[13:25:50] <freespace> ah, i check carefully the job before i run it, but there is always the possibilty of a stuck pin...
[13:25:58] <JT-Shop> bad habits are hard to break
[13:26:02] <freespace> i will try to use the touchoff next time
[13:26:04] <freespace> yeah
[13:26:21] <freespace> i can see cases where i need ot make multiple copies of the same pcb, while keeping my original home
[13:26:54] <freespace> so i will try and break my habit
[13:27:07] <freespace> thanks for the instruction :D
[13:27:13] <JT-Shop> yw
[13:27:14] <Jymmm> I just wish they added a <SHIFT> as a high/low speed jog
[13:27:59] <Jymmm> <LEFT> == 200 IPS Jog
[13:28:17] <Jymmm> <SHIFT>+<LEFT> == 2 IPM
[13:28:51] <Jymmm> And yes, I suggested it years ago.
[13:30:46] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: You're not a HF fan, right?
[13:30:57] <JT-Shop> HF?
[13:31:03] <Jymmm> HF == Harbor Freight
[13:33:02] <JT-Shop> oh, well if one carefully shops there you might find something that might not break before you get home
[13:33:16] <Jymmm> LOL, ah ok
[13:34:26] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Worse review of a name brand product I've ever seen... http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-202564877/h_d2/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&keyword=inverter&storeId=10051, and ironically not too shabby for a HF item and on sale for $20 ... http://www.harborfreight.com/400-watt-continuous-800-watt-peak-power-inverter-66814.html
[13:34:28] <JT-Shop> I went in one once and looked around!
[13:35:49] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: I got a pai of 14" scissors that work really well surprisingly
[13:36:04] <JT-Shop> I guess your forced to give it at least one star
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[13:36:33] <Jymmm> sounds like it
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[13:44:16] <Jymmm> Heh, remember that first weller soldering pencil you had way back when, I can't find the thing cheap, still sells for $15 after all these years
[13:45:28] <ReadError> hmm i was going to get a dial indicator too from HF
[13:45:33] <ReadError> no gusta?
[13:46:20] <Jymmm> There are a few things I get from HF, measuring tools is not one of them, except my 48" aluminum ruler
[13:47:04] <Jymmm> It was only $3 http://www.harborfreight.com/48-aluminum-ruler-67808.html
[13:47:33] <Jymmm> nice enough straight edge
[13:48:29] <Jymmm> ReadError: Hit a machinest tooling shop and ask for a cheap one would be my suggestion
[13:48:34] <jdhnc> I have a few $9.99 digital micrometers. They work well enough.
[13:49:00] <JT-Shop> yea, measuring tools, drills, end mills etc from china are crap
[13:49:45] <Jymmm> Though makes for a cheap index when you buy/replace the bits in a 120pc set =)
[13:50:00] <ReadError> amazon prime ;)
[13:51:29] <Jymmm> BTW that 48" ruler is 1/8" thick and 2" wide. Great to clamp on plywood to cut )
[13:52:19] <Jymmm> the 36" aluminum yardstick isnt' too shabby either, thinner though
[13:52:21] <JT-Shop> yea, my Dad left me a bunch of them
[13:52:29] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: heh
[13:52:30] <JT-Shop> one 60" long
[13:53:43] <Jymmm> That be nice for a router/saw guide
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[13:56:23] <Jymmm> It's funny. I see things on sale at HF and thing "How bad can china fuck things up? It couldn't be too bad. " then I hit the store and look at the item, and I go "wow, they really can fuck things up far worse that I ever imagined" sometimes =)
[13:57:13] <archivist> you should see some indian stuff makes that look good
[13:57:58] <Jymmm> worse than china?
[13:58:01] <mozmck> guy I know calls HF "harrible freight"
[13:58:24] <mozmck> i.e. horrible
[13:58:45] <Jymmm> mozmck: Mostly it is, but it's like dumpster diving... You have to dig thru shit to find the gems.
[13:59:04] <Jymmm> and there are a few.
[13:59:47] <mozmck> heh, yep, I still shop there. Even the cheap junk can be worth it if you won't use it a lot and can't spend much.
[14:01:15] <Jymmm> One of the best tools I've ever bought was one of those 6-in-1 screwdrivers. I had bought a few of them on sale for $2.50 and would love to buy a few more but were discontinued. The best damn tips especially for electronics that come in from overseas.
[14:01:55] <Jymmm> It fits better than my craftsman and my snap-on screwdrivers
[14:08:17] <Loetmichel> *yawn* if you second-sleep while soldering one should prescribe the wiife some anti-snoring-medication :-() *yaaaawn*
[14:11:28] <Jymmm> You sleep while holding an 800F stick in your hand?
[14:16:50] <jdhnc> second sleep?
[14:17:09] <JT-Shop> nap perhaps
[14:17:09] <freespace> microsleep
[14:17:12] <freespace> ?
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[14:19:17] <ThadiusB> good morning
[14:20:29] <ReadError> morning
[14:25:27] <ThadiusB> how do you unistall linuxcnc?
[14:25:43] <ReadError> remove the partition
[14:25:55] <ThadiusB> my install was from disc with 10.04 lucid w/ linuxcnc
[14:26:01] <Jymmm> ThadiusB: Got Drillpress?
[14:26:10] <Valen> what do you mean by uninstall
[14:26:13] <ReadError> http://p.twimg.com/ArIcM8xCEAACEFi.jpg:large
[14:26:16] <ReadError> drew that last night
[14:26:25] <ReadError> had to hold the market
[14:26:28] <ReadError> marker*
[14:26:30] <ReadError> with my hand
[14:26:31] <Valen> heh they always say your not sposed to run that
[14:26:34] <Valen> but everybody does
[14:26:41] <ReadError> why not Valen ?
[14:26:42] <Valen> looks like one of your axies is reversed?
[14:26:45] <ReadError> ya
[14:26:51] <ThadiusB> unistall = remove from my computer
[14:26:52] <Valen> it says in big letters at the top of the file
[14:26:56] <Valen> "demo only"
[14:27:03] <ReadError> i thought the table should move the direction i push the arrow
[14:27:05] <ReadError> but its backwards
[14:27:09] <ThadiusB> need to remove linuxcnc and reinstall it
[14:27:12] <Valen> apt-get unstall linuxcnc will remove linux cnc
[14:27:16] <Valen> i spose
[14:27:30] <Valen> what are you actually trying to do
[14:27:43] <ThadiusB> i'm trying to remove linuxcnc and do a fresh install
[14:27:46] <jdhnc> you can just rerun the installer and tell it to overwrite
[14:28:05] <Valen> do you understand the difference between linuxcnc and the ubuntu operating system?
[14:28:25] <ThadiusB> yes
[14:28:53] <jdhnc> what would reinstalling linuxcnc do for you?
[14:29:10] <Valen> sudo apt-get install --reinstall packagename
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[14:29:29] <Jymmm> ThadiusB: why a fresh install?
[14:29:55] <ThadiusB> because I honestly dont know where my problem is, and I'm starting from the ground up
[14:30:31] <Jymmm> ThadiusB: Then the simplest thing would be to a full/fresh install on an empty hard drive
[14:30:34] <Valen> well you can either re-install the OS, or just delete the configuration files for emc
[14:30:49] <Valen> presuming you have just been mucking about there
[14:31:06] <Jymmm> ThadiusB: Then you would know for sure that everything is back to the beginning
[14:32:17] <ThadiusB> ya, i'm at a loss, so i figure square one, and be more meticulous with everything
[14:32:35] <Valen> have you ventured out of your home directory
[14:32:39] <Valen> or have you compiled anything?
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[14:33:06] <JT-Shop> dang zotac keeps shutting off in the CHNC
[14:33:13] <Valen> if not just rename the .emc folder in your home directory
[14:33:19] <Valen> or whatever its called now
[14:33:29] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: overtemp?
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[14:33:48] <ThadiusB> maybe i should just explain my problem and get some recommendations ?
[14:35:27] <ThadiusB> when i goto jog my axis for homing, one axis jogs fine, but when i goto another, it wont run one direction, either plus or minus, however when I move another axis, and go back to the one that wouldnt move, it now moves both directions, this happens on all axis at some point
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[14:36:06] <JT-Shop> Jymmm: dunno, it has a CPU fan
[14:36:15] <JT-Shop> can you monitor that in Ubuntu?
[14:36:28] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: I believe so.
[14:40:04] <ThadiusB> well, off to format and reinstall
[14:40:06] <ThadiusB> take care
[14:41:28] <archivist> ThadiusB, reinstall does not often help
[14:41:36] <archivist> why do that
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[14:43:26] <ThadiusB> because there's not really a lot of options (that i know of or have been recommended) so i figure i'll start over
[14:43:30] <cradek> sounds like you have a hardware problem
[14:43:37] <cradek> so yeah, reinstalling won't fix it.
[14:44:09] <ThadiusB> well, gotta start somewhere
[14:46:51] <pcw_home> Hmm car's out of gas: solution replace tires. Gotta start somewhere
[14:47:06] <Jymmm> ThadiusB: What driver/BOB are you using?
[14:47:12] <ThadiusB> your recommendation pew_home?
[14:47:47] <pcw_home> it really does sound like a hardware problem
[14:48:14] <Jymmm> ThadiusB: Are you using shielded cables?
[14:48:33] <ThadiusB> yes
[14:48:35] <pcw_home> (perhaps marginal levels into Schmitt trigger equipped BOB)
[14:48:46] <Jymmm> ThadiusB: What driver/BOB are you using?
[14:48:58] <ThadiusB> driver/bob?
[14:49:11] <JT-Shop> Break Out Board
[14:49:16] <Jymmm> tris: What hardware do you have?
[14:49:26] <Jymmm> ThadiusB: : What hardware do you have?
[14:49:32] <ThadiusB> its RTR enclosure from probotix
[14:49:45] <Jymmm> ThadiusB: link?
[14:49:51] <ThadiusB> one sec
[14:49:56] <pcw_home> I would check( trace) the direction signals from the parallel port onward when you have this problem
[14:50:42] <ThadiusB> http://www.probotix.com/breakout_boards/
[14:50:44] <archivist> widen the pulses too
[14:51:18] <archivist> all before wasting reinstall time
[14:51:26] <pcw_home> Good idea, does sound like something marginal
[14:52:56] <Jymmm> ThadiusB: which one of those do you have?
[14:53:17] <ThadiusB> PBX-RF RF Isolated CNC Breakout Board
[14:53:40] <Jymmm> ThadiusB: Are you using a round paraport cable? Flat ribbon paraport cbale?
[14:53:57] <ThadiusB> rounded
[14:54:19] <ThadiusB> also it says "USB Logic Power Supply for PC side"
[14:54:40] <Jymmm> ThadiusB: do you have a USB cab;e plugged into it?
[14:54:46] <ThadiusB> i'm gonna feel like an idiot, because I havent every plugged that in, thinking it was for usb control
[14:54:51] <ThadiusB> ever*
[14:55:13] <jdhnc> it's often just a 5v power supply
[14:55:13] <pcw_home> Oops it will not work without it
[14:55:19] <Jymmm> ThadiusB: That USB cbale is what provides POWER to the board itself. plug it in and see if that fixes your issues
[14:55:38] <ThadiusB> 0_o --- how i look at this moment
[14:55:48] <pcw_home> its probably being powered by the parallel port
[14:56:13] <ThadiusB> and that would drop voltage off of para port no?
[14:56:33] <jdhnc> why would one use RF for isolation rather than Opto's
[14:56:45] <pcw_home> (the RF uses low power isolators so as long as you have enough parallel port in a high state it might kinda sorta work
[14:56:47] <Jymmm> jdhnc: cheap bastards?
[14:56:59] <pcw_home> parrallel port pins
[14:57:12] <pcw_home> RF is model
[14:57:29] <jdhnc> The RF isolation chips used in the PBX-RF work much like opto-isolators, except that they use radio waves to send signals across the isolation plane rather than light
[14:57:41] <pcw_home> pretty sure it uses magnetic or capacitive isolators
[14:57:54] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: i napped a second or so-> big hole in the plasitc sheet voering the solder table... :-(
[14:58:25] <pcw_home> much better than OPTOs if speed/power is an issue
[14:58:28] <ThadiusB> ok, seems "jogging" issues arent rearing their ugly head anymore
[14:59:06] <Jymmm> ThadiusB: Um, next time RTFM... http://www.probotix.com/manuals/PBX-RF_manual.pdf
[14:59:23] <ReadError> hope to make my 1st cut tonight guys :)
[14:59:32] <ReadError> or more pretty cardboard drawings
[14:59:46] <ReadError> got it going much quicker than i thought
[15:00:26] <ReadError> and holy cow those motors are strong
[15:00:29] <ThadiusB> Jymmm, ya, once again eagerness has led to poor planning and lack of due diligence
[15:00:31] <ReadError> when they are idle
[15:00:37] <ReadError> i try to twist, nothing
[15:01:05] <Jymmm> ThadiusB: From the manual... The isolation chips require power supply on both sides of the isolation circuitry. The PC side can be supplied with any DC power supply from 12 to 40 volts capable of at least 100mA.
[15:01:22] <Jymmm> goes on to say you can use USB.
[15:02:36] <Jymmm> When they say "RF isolation" do they mean inductive?
[15:04:03] <pcw_home> yes although there are TI versions of these that are capacitive
[15:04:12] <ReadError> it would be pretty simple to setup a spindle relay?
[15:04:21] <ReadError> ive setup a SSR, it was only 4 wires
[15:07:40] <Loetmichel> ReadError: despite the RC-snubber on the cobntacts and the filters ont the mains...
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[15:11:44] <Jymmm> pcw_home: thanks
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[15:12:11] <pcw_home> pretty much making OPTOs obsolete for high speed apps
[15:12:25] <Jymmm> really?
[15:12:59] <Jymmm> so rf0isolation is BETTER (or at least faster) than opto?
[15:13:08] <pcw_home> yeah 100 Mbps at not to bad a price
[15:13:20] <Jymmm> compared to?
[15:13:33] <pcw_home> real logic I/O
[15:14:14] <Jymmm> no, I mean what speed can opto dela with?
[15:14:17] <Jymmm> deal
[15:14:43] <pcw_home> I dont think there are many OPTOs that fast
[15:15:14] <pcw_home> and what HS OPTOS exist are more expensive
[15:15:24] <Jymmm> opto ~= 100KHz?
[15:15:59] <pcw_home> Main disadvantage is that power is required on both sides
[15:16:34] <Jymmm> ah
[15:16:58] <ThadiusB> really do appreciate the help, and apologies if i came across as snide or unappreciative
[15:17:06] <Jymmm> Are RF shielded internally?
[15:17:42] <Jymmm> ThadiusB: You didn't, though RTFM goes a long ways in all this stuff =)
[15:17:48] <pcw_home> You can get 6N137 type OPTOs to 10 mBits and pretty cheap but they
[15:17:50] <pcw_home> need lots of 5V current and have terrible symmetry (the bane of all OPTO devices)
[15:18:34] <Jymmm> pcw_home: Hmmm, guess I never thought about it too much. good to know.
[15:19:07] <pcw_home> the magnetic/capacitive isolators will give you only a few ns of distortion (asymmetry)
[15:19:48] <ThadiusB> ya Jymmm, for some reason i missed the BoB manual, or let the excitement of it all over shadow due diligence
[15:20:22] <pcw_home> (better symmetry because they are balanced devices, OPTOs are single ended = rope handled shovel)
[15:20:38] <Jymmm> heh
[15:21:00] <Jymmm> ThadiusB: Probably wouldn't be a bad idea to read the emc manuals either, or at least glance at them
[15:21:41] <Jymmm> pcw_home: are you guys using/looking at rf isolators for your stuff?
[15:22:39] <pcw_home> been using them for years
[15:22:59] <ThadiusB> i poured over the emc2 online resources over the last few days, and more so last night, which really helped me understand the stepconfig process, but you're right, I could use a lot more education
[15:23:13] <pcw_home> and replacing OPTOs in older stuff when possible
[15:23:22] <Jymmm> pcw_home: Ah, cool =)
[15:25:03] <pcw_home> we actually used a equivalent thing in the 90's to isolate a A-D converter (build in pieces from Ethernet transformer and CMOS logic)
[15:27:44] <pcw_home> (its an old old old idea) = AC couple logic signal into high freq pulse transformer
[15:27:45] <pcw_home> so you get a positive spike on the output when the signals goes high and a negative spike when it returns low, You restore the original logic signals with a set-reset FF on the isolated side
[15:31:09] * JT-Shop figured out why the lawn mower would not cut grass... not much left on the blades!
[15:32:12] <pcw_home> need a new sling blade? ummhumm
[15:32:55] <jdhnc> good movie.
[15:33:33] <pcw_home> somehow the lawnmower blade reminded me
[15:33:56] <jdhnc> it usually takes somethign creepier than a lawnmower blade to remind me of that :)
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[15:34:19] <ThadiusB> http://inhabitat.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/1/files/2011/04/florian-hauswirth-bicycle-lawnmower-1-537x429.jpg
[15:34:37] <pcw_home> so JT-Shop is back and was not a victim of a cannon accident
[15:35:57] <pcw_home> Nice but it looks like some tough pedaling
[15:36:23] <syyl> i think a sheep would be more handy...
[15:36:59] <jdhnc> Anyone have any suggestions for spindle speed control for asian mills? CNC4PC C41 and Homann DC-03 look functionally similar.
[15:37:02] <pcw_home> except you need to bulld a fortress around any tree you like
[15:37:30] <syyl> lay out mines?
[15:38:14] <pcw_home> I have thought lambchops afte a few incidents
[15:38:33] <JT-Shop> pcw_home: I went to visit family on the East Coast and boy am I tired after all that driving
[15:38:58] <jdhnc> you drove to the east coast?
[15:39:08] <jdhnc> you must like your relatives a lot!
[15:39:22] <pcw_home> I used to drive all the time but I find it takes a lot out of me too
[15:39:30] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop what part?
[15:39:47] <Tom_itx> been to NC several times
[15:40:07] <Tom_itx> too long a drive imo
[15:40:32] <pcw_home> How far each day?
[15:40:41] <Tom_itx> i did it all at once
[15:40:45] <Tom_itx> 19 hrs
[15:40:54] <pcw_home> Ouch
[15:41:08] <Tom_itx> stopped for gas and fast food was about it
[15:41:25] <Tom_itx> the last 5 are miserable
[15:42:31] <Tom_itx> anyway, i got some 203v's coming. anything i need to know about setting them up?
[15:43:01] <JT-Shop> pcw_home: a total of 2,075 miles in 5 days with the first and last day about 600 miles each
[15:43:14] <Tom_itx> on the gold wing?
[15:43:24] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx: don't forget the current limit resistor
[15:43:30] <Tom_itx> well of course
[15:43:35] <Tom_itx> what did you set yours for?
[15:43:43] <pcw_home> Ive never done that (I think the worst is 600 miles in a day on a motorcycle)
[15:43:45] <JT-Shop> no, the van... I picked up my daughter in Memphis and we did the rounds
[15:43:49] <Tom_itx> i figured about 3.5 or 4A
[15:44:02] <Tom_itx> for these
[15:44:16] <JT-Shop> I forget what mine are set at for the nema 23 triple stacks
[15:44:54] <JT-Shop> most I've done in one day on a bike is about 500 miles
[15:45:15] <Tom_itx> that would really get old on a bike i'd think
[15:45:30] <JT-Shop> and your hands and butt are numb...
[15:45:42] <Tom_itx> these are nema23 282 in oz similar to yours i think
[15:46:00] <Tom_itx> hybrid so i'm gonna wire them parallel
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[15:46:45] <Tom_itx> i'm hoping to get a little better performance outta them with the new drivers
[15:47:00] <pcw_home> Yeah my hands were nearly frozen and I got rained on (Suzuki 305 ~1970s)
[15:47:12] <JT-Shop> they will run smooth for sure once you set the morphing point
[15:47:32] <mrsun> pcw_home, were you the one that helped me with the pwm to analog board?
[15:47:49] <pcw_home> Dont remember...
[15:48:13] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop is that what the pot is for?
[15:48:29] <pcw_home> a faint bell is ringing...
[15:48:39] <mrsun> was with a opamp etc, and there was a 1k resistor to gnd, was just wonder what that was for and if that value is important, at 10V i got 0.1W flowing in that resistor, feels a bit overkill :P
[15:49:16] <pcw_home> was this with an OPTO?
[15:49:23] <mrsun> yes
[15:50:20] <pcw_home> OK if the OP-AMP buffer has a high input impedance (its a follower) you can probably use higher
[15:50:30] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx: you run the stepper at some RPM that I forget atm and adjust the pot for the smoothest sound
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[15:50:52] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, yeah iirc it was very low rpm
[15:50:55] <JT-Shop> that sets the RPM that the drive morphs from 10 micro steps to full steps
[15:50:59] <mrsun> pcw_home, oki =)
[15:51:01] <mrsun> thanks
[15:51:02] <Tom_itx> i briefly scanned the doc
[15:51:29] <Tom_itx> no more than 1/4 turn either way
[15:51:37] <Tom_itx> or thereabouts
[15:52:27] <mrsun> pcw_home, but what is that resistor for exactly ? :)
[15:52:42] <mrsun> from the output on the opto straight to gnd you told me to put it =)
[15:54:30] <pcw_home> I would need a schematic, but i thek there are basically 2 resistors on OPTO output side
[15:54:32] <pcw_home> a pull down or pullup resistor (low value) and a series resistor into the RC/filter
[15:55:55] <pcw_home> you want a fairly high ratio of series resistor to the pulldown resistor
[15:56:03] <mrsun> pcw_home, http://imagebin.org/209371
[15:56:32] <Tom_itx> do the current limit resistors need to be 1/4W or would 1/8 be adequate on those 203's?
[15:57:07] <Tom_itx> i've got far more 1/8w on hand
[15:57:44] <pcw_home> yeah so if you increase R6 you need to increase R5 and R7 as well
[15:58:19] <mrsun> pcw_home, ahh ok =)
[15:58:40] <mrsun> i guess its not a problem, im just thinking of the wasted current draw from the vfd
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[15:58:48] <mrsun> as that portion is powered from the vfds pins =)
[15:59:31] <pcw_home> another solution is to insert a 4000 series CMOS gate between the junction of PC847.9 and R6.1 and R5.1
[16:02:40] <pcw_home> then R6 can be higher as the PWM into the filter is now buffered and has roughly symmetrical drive
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[16:07:05] <pcw_home> But its probably OK as is. The disadvantage of a higher R6 (and not changing the other filter components) is tha you will make the PWM drive into the filter more asymmetrical
[16:07:07] <pcw_home> That is the OPTO will drive hard in the ON or plus direction but R6 will only pull down (OFF)
[16:07:09] <pcw_home> weakly. This will cause convex non-linearity (output voltage will be higher at midscale than expected)
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[16:09:53] <joe9> i am trying to figure out how to find the correct feed rate?
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[16:10:18] <joe9> is there some formula for calculating the feed rate? not the arcs, just for straight lines, etc.
[16:10:57] <jdhnc> joe9: machinists handbook
[16:11:58] <JT-Shop> joe9: feed rate, sfm depend on the cutting tool, machine, material, coolant etc... start with the cutting tool info if you have any
[16:12:17] <JT-Shop> and I forgot chip load...
[16:13:13] <joe9> for poplar wood, the depth of cut = 0.01 inch, cutter is a high speed dremel #561, diameter = 1/8inch, and i think 2 flutes.
[16:13:28] <joe9> what would you recommend the feedrate to use?
[16:13:34] <joe9> i am currently using 1.
[16:13:54] <joe9> but, I think it is too slow.
[16:14:04] <JT-Shop> what rpm?
[16:14:08] <joe9> 10,000 rpm
[16:15:18] <JT-Shop> 10IPM = 0.0005 FPT (Feed Per Tooth or chip load)
[16:15:30] <joe9> ok, thanks.
[16:15:43] <JT-Shop> is it carbide?
[16:15:52] <joe9> HSS, not carbide.
[16:16:02] <joe9> JT-Shop: not carbide.
[16:16:10] <JT-Shop> watch carefully for wear, wood is highly abrasive
[16:16:18] <joe9> ok, thanks.
[16:16:38] <JT-Shop> signs to look for is not cutting cleanly ie burrs left at edge of cut
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[16:22:20] <joe9> JT-Shop: thanks.
[16:22:25] * JT-Shop wanders off for a nap
[16:22:27] <JT-Shop> np
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[16:27:10] <Tom_itx> and smoke burning wood and fire
[16:27:31] <Tom_itx> all good signs it's time to change the cutter
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[17:06:38] <Loetmichel> hmm... is there e chance to spip some part of the gcode in linuxCNC?
[17:07:15] <Loetmichel> i have to make a part with 2 sides, one with a few lots less than the other, otherwise smmetrical
[17:07:36] <jdhnc> spip?
[17:07:45] <Loetmichel> so i wuold like to make one file fpr both sides and skip some holes on one side
[17:07:51] <Loetmichel> skip
[17:07:58] <Loetmichel> <- sausage fingers ;-)
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[17:08:33] <jdhnc> put an Onnn around the excess holes and call it from one side only?
[17:08:44] <jdhnc> pause/run-from?
[17:08:47] <Loetmichel> archivist: i mailed CJ cherryh: the chanur cycle is in EPUB production... so i can get them legally soon ;-)
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[17:09:16] <jdhnc> loetmichel: wonder where mine came from.
[17:10:04] <Loetmichel> jdhnc: will be l lenghly code because i have to mill the 100 cooling slots in 0.1mm steps to a depth of 1,5mm ;)
[17:10:19] <Loetmichel> jdhnc: maybe a scan from a book from some fan?
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[17:15:31] <Loetmichel> *harhar* that is as tight as it gets: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=13134
[17:16:14] <Loetmichel> blue is my machine movement... there is only enough room for two 3mm alingment bolts to flip the workpiece
[17:16:20] <Loetmichel> and a 2mm mill bitt ;-)
[17:16:37] <jdhnc> what material?
[17:16:44] <Loetmichel> 1,5mm aluminium
[17:17:51] <Loetmichel> my machine can travel 200*110mm... the workpiece is 194 by 215 mm ;-)
[17:18:19] <Loetmichel> thats a thight fit i guess ;-)
[17:19:04] <IchGuckLive> hopping the tread will make it to the end Loetmichel
[17:19:21] <IchGuckLive> or steppers are staling
[17:19:22] <Loetmichel> ?
[17:19:42] <Loetmichel> MY steppers dont stall ,)
[17:19:51] <IchGuckLive> O.O
[17:20:07] <Loetmichel> i've forbidden it ;-)
[17:20:29] <Loetmichel> and they know what happens if they dont obey ;-)
[17:20:49] <IchGuckLive> regnet es bei dir schon hier ist ein heftiges gewitter durchgezogen in deine richtung
[17:20:59] <Loetmichel> <- "SCHEISSKISTE, ICH ZERLEG' DICH!"
[17:21:01] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[17:21:07] <Loetmichel> no
[17:21:18] <IchGuckLive> so it is still to come
[17:21:19] <Loetmichel> sorry, but thats untranslateable ;-)
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[17:22:01] <IchGuckLive> witch cad do you use
[17:22:50] <IchGuckLive> did you check librecad and heekscnc for this its pretty comfatable
[17:23:17] <Loetmichel> IchGuckLive: dont laugh: corelDraw 8
[17:23:29] <IchGuckLive> we all startet on this
[17:24:18] <Loetmichel> i have used it since '94 or so. i got acustomed to it ;-)
[17:24:42] <Loetmichel> i think i am faster in corel than most of the "cad engineers" with autocad or similar
[17:24:49] <IchGuckLive> the time is changing
[17:25:12] <IchGuckLive> dont agree on that
[17:25:13] <Loetmichel> i am not. so what?
[17:25:50] <IchGuckLive> but it is your time B)
[17:27:01] <Loetmichel> right its my time to learn some new cad... which i dont have/dont want to spend. again: so what?
[17:34:22] <IchGuckLive> Question on driver stage commercial most now have opto inputs ! when i use a BOB do i need to change the signal as there are then 2 convercions
[17:40:03] <IchGuckLive> oh the BOB also has a Hex iinverter involved so the timing is horable
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[17:49:13] <jdhnc> I usually use draftsight, it is 'free' and autocad command/key/file compatible
[17:57:19] <IchGuckLive> what are the file outs for draftsight free
[17:57:36] <pcw_home> IchGuckLive: I would say a buffered BOB is sufficient for OPTO isolated drives. each OPTO introduces timing errors
[17:59:25] <IchGuckLive> i will test what is best pcw_home
[17:59:28] <jdhnc> Ich: dxf, dwg, pdf, maybe some others
[17:59:53] <IchGuckLive> jdhnc: is dxf chooseble version
[18:00:04] <IchGuckLive> can you check this for me please
[18:00:20] <jdhnc> Ich: yeah, lots of different flavors, bin & txt
[18:00:37] <IchGuckLive> no the dxf version
[18:01:05] <jdhnc> dont' have it installed here
[18:01:10] <IchGuckLive> AC1009 or simular
[18:01:24] <IchGuckLive> time is no factor jdhnc
[18:01:25] <jdhnc> is that in the file header? I have some dxf
[18:01:32] <IchGuckLive> yes
[18:02:33] <IchGuckLive> AC1009 is autocad12 autocad2000 says AC1015
[18:02:48] <IchGuckLive> http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drawing_Interchange_Format#DXF-Versionen
[18:03:45] <IchGuckLive> the english wikipedia does not support dxf supportinfo
[18:03:56] <jdhnc> AC1014, AC1024, AC1009 at least
[18:04:21] <jdhnc> when you save, it lets you pick one of 10 or so different dxf versions
[18:04:57] <IchGuckLive> ok cause Rhino does not accept the new ones
[18:05:27] <jdhnc> it goes way back. has R14 at least.
[18:05:36] <IchGuckLive> alot of workshops like yours work with rhino here in germany
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[18:07:26] <iwoj> Best, most affordable motherboard for linuxcnc is?
[18:07:44] <jdhnc> iwoj: in my limited experience, intel atom
[18:08:08] <archivist> free cast offs suit me
[18:08:26] <jdhnc> certainly cheaper
[18:09:22] <IchGuckLive> iwoj: depending on what is your speed you want under 3m/min it does not matter
[18:09:39] <jdhnc> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813121442
[18:09:51] <jdhnc> I wanted a small box
[18:10:25] <iwoj> jdhnc: awesome. thanks. complete with parallel port. beauty.
[18:11:04] <archivist> iwoj, we dont know what sort of price and if you are running steppers or servos
[18:11:13] <jdhnc> I put a $9 pci wifi card in mine.
[18:12:07] <IchGuckLive> jdhnc: does this has a standart PCI slot
[18:12:15] <IchGuckLive> or miniPCI
[18:12:19] <jdhnc> Ich: plain old pci
[18:12:40] <IchGuckLive> so pcw FPGA also fits
[18:13:02] <jdhnc> should be fine. I have a 7i43 hooked up to my d525 p-port
[18:13:26] <pcw_home> Yeah either PP or PCI or PCIE
[18:13:42] <IchGuckLive> nice
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[18:14:23] <IchGuckLive> im off By
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[18:27:18] <iwoj> I'm getting latency of about 400000 ns
[18:27:47] <iwoj> will disabling SMI take care of this, or should I just buy a different mainboard?
[18:27:48] <Connor> that mobo jdhnc posted is what I'm using in my mill. Nice board.
[18:27:57] <archivist> iwoj, try another video card or driver
[18:29:31] <ReadError> what kind of latency you getting with it Connor ?
[18:29:35] <ReadError> thats what i was about to order.
[18:29:45] <iwoj> i'm using the nvidia driver
[18:30:00] <Connor> iwoj: Use stock driver. Don't use nvidea driver
[18:30:05] <archivist> iwoj, that could be the problem
[18:30:21] <iwoj> stock driver?
[18:30:31] <Connor> ReadError: I think I have the base thread around 35000
[18:32:31] <iwoj> how do I determine my stock driver, now that it's not running?
[18:32:32] <Connor> So, you all using the MESA boards, do you all have some sort of breakout board to come off of it?
[18:32:41] <ReadError> i have a g540
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[18:33:56] <jdhnc> I don't think the mesa board is doing anythign for me other than looking cool and having lots of spare IO
[18:38:49] <Connor> anyone know anything about the C10 BOB ?
[18:40:07] <Connor> I noticed that pins 1,14,16,17 don't seam to pull to ground like 2-9 do.. I'm thinking I need to have a pull down resistor.
[18:41:23] <jdhnc> what are you putting on them?
[18:41:46] <Connor> I was going to use pin 17 to enable my 5056's but, when the machine boots up, they're floating..
[18:42:06] <Connor> if I launch EMC and quit, then they're at ground.
[18:42:52] <cpresser> Connor: parport pins are not in a defined state unless you run some software :/
[18:43:08] <cpresser> i have my machine in e-stop until emc2 is running, just to make sure :)
[18:43:44] <Connor> WHY on earth someone would design a driver so that you had to have a 5v supply to DISABLE them is strange..
[18:43:49] <Connor> brb
[18:44:06] <ReadError> Connor
[18:44:10] <ReadError> what do you get on servo?
[18:45:18] <Connor> I think servo is default.. 1000000
[18:46:08] <Connor> I'm using pin 9 right not for it which has a ground state on boot.. but.. 8 & 9 is going to be for my 4th axis.
[18:46:28] <jdhnc> I wouldn't count on anythign being in any state until it is drivne there.
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[18:55:32] <ReadError> hey joe9
[18:55:39] <ReadError> you wire a spindle relay?
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[18:57:38] <joe9> ReadError: no.
[18:58:02] <joe9> i felt that it was better to have home/limit switches first.
[18:58:56] <ReadError> got any pics how you mounted the switches?
[19:01:36] <joe9> ReadError: no, will have to find the camera first.
[19:02:10] <joe9> for the z axis, on the top back of the way, i just put the switch there using double sided tape
[19:02:44] <joe9> on the x-axis, just after the nut to which you tighten the bracket, I used a HF clamp and double sided tape to put the switch.
[19:03:10] <joe9> on the y-axis, I used an L bracket and a wood piece to hold the switch.
[19:03:20] <joe9> I mounted the L bracket to the taig base.
[19:03:24] <joe9> does that make sense?
[19:04:39] <Connor> hey, question, on limit switches... Is there a reason why most have Rollers on them? I have a whole slew of micro switches with levers, but, non have rollers. I need to put some on for my G0704.
[19:04:50] <joe9> i did not use rollers.
[19:05:14] <joe9> i think rollers help keep the motion smoother.
[19:05:16] <archivist> Connor, less breakage if you go too far
[19:05:17] <Connor> other question, what do you do when you have a vise that overhangs the back of the table that can limit your travel ?
[19:05:18] <ReadError> http://p.twimg.com/ArIcM8xCEAACEFi.jpg:large
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[19:05:29] <ReadError> did that last night joe9
[19:05:36] <ReadError> held the marker on the z axis
[19:05:38] <jdhnc> move the vise!
[19:05:39] <Connor> adjust the back limit switch ?
[19:05:46] <archivist> be careful
[19:05:55] <cpresser> add soft-limits?
[19:06:17] <joe9> ReadError: that is cool. I see the big breaker bar in the back. what did you use that for?
[19:06:22] <Connor> would be nice to have a button that changes the soft limits maybe..
[19:06:33] <jdhnc> connor are you adding a home switch too or just use one of the limits
[19:06:48] <Connor> just using the limit switches.
[19:07:14] <jdhnc> I thought about that too but wondered about homing so far away.
[19:07:38] <ReadError> thats a socket wrench
[19:07:43] <Connor> the other question. on MILL's not routers.. how do most people setup the min and max travel for Y axis ?
[19:07:45] <jdhnc> I presume I will not be using the far end of teh talbe too much
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[19:07:50] <joe9> ReadError: oh, ok.
[19:08:01] <ReadError> make any cuts yet?
[19:08:39] <Connor> jdhnc: Depends. I've seen people use single switch for the X and Y axis..
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[19:15:25] <iwoj> when running the latency test, which number should i focus on?
[19:15:32] <ReadError> so with homing switches, or limit switches
[19:15:39] <ReadError> is there a script that runs til it hits it
[19:15:39] <iwoj> max jitter or max interval?
[19:15:45] <ReadError> then its considered "homed" ?
[19:18:01] <jdhnc> when you tell it to home, it drives toward home, seeks the switch, then marks the axis home.
[19:18:48] <ReadError> niiice
[19:18:51] <ReadError> yea i need those
[19:18:58] <ReadError> i need some nice mounts though
[19:19:23] <jdhnc> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.4/html/config_ini_homing.html
[19:19:36] <jdhnc> mounts for small switches are difficult
[19:21:31] <ReadError> joe9 got it workin
[19:21:39] <ReadError> i should machine some little housings for them ;)
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[19:25:28] <Roguish> good day all. what brand/type touch screens are being used with 'touchy' ????
[19:27:41] <JT-Shop> Connor: usually the machine 0 for the axes are left, rear, top for the X, Y, Z axes
[19:28:17] <JT-Shop> iwoj: the max jitter
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[19:30:02] <iwoj> thanks to whoever suggested dumping the nvidia driver.
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[19:30:09] <iwoj> that fixed my latency problems.
[19:34:38] <jdhnc> certainly easier than a new board.
[19:34:42] <jdhnc> but, perhaps not as fun.
[19:34:53] <Connor> JT-Shop: On a MILL ? Would have though on a Mill that 0 would be middle of the table - to the left and + to the right ?
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[19:37:13] <Jymmm> Connor: So, if you wanted a hole at 11" on a 24" axis, you want to say -1 instead of 11 ?
[19:37:50] * djdelorie wants a tape measure with 0 in the middle...
[19:38:14] <Jymmm> Connor: You could TOUCH OFF in the middle like you were mentioning
[19:38:16] <Jymmm> djdelorie: lol
[19:38:29] <jdhnc> doesn't really make any difference does it? When you touch off, you are where ever you want to be
[19:39:01] <Jymmm> jdhnc: Hawaii!
[19:39:14] <jdhnc> you have a better touch off than me.
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[19:43:15] <Connor> The other thing that threw me for a loop was X and Y are reversed on a mill vs a router because the table moves, not the head..
[19:44:51] <djdelorie> well, *if* the table moves.
[19:46:48] <Jymmm> ...you're doing somethng right!
[19:47:01] <djdelorie> if my table moves, I'm doing something horribly wrong...
[19:47:18] <Connor> Well.. my X and Y is moving.. :) I just have to get the Z working now.
[19:47:18] <Jymmm> djdelorie: that's what she said!
[19:47:36] <djdelorie> I mean, aside from the usual shaking and wobbling, because after all, it's just plywood
[19:48:02] <Connor> djdelorie: I'm talking about a mill, not a router or gantry machine.
[19:48:48] <djdelorie> Conner: I knew what you're talking about, but they're all basically the same machine. There are moving table routers where X moves and Y doesn't, for example. You just have to adapt
[19:49:00] <djdelorie> vs a lathe or 5-axis machine, for example
[19:50:41] <djdelorie> and a makerbot isn't a mill but has the same moving table as your type of mill
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[19:55:42] <JT-Shop> Connor: yep a mill is usually set up that way
[19:56:25] <Connor> JT-Shop: for the Y, and the X, far back 0 ?
[19:56:28] <ReadError> im kinda confused about z tooling offset
[19:57:00] <ReadError> is it measured from 0 (lowest point on z)
[19:57:06] <ReadError> to the end of the tool?
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[20:01:14] <mrsun> hmm, a buffer circuit, how is that compared to opto isolation in protection ?
[20:02:43] <mrsun> thinking something like uln2003
[20:04:09] <archivist> I use a uln200X to drive my opto inputs
[20:04:35] <archivist> and also for the lathe as it needed 12v drive
[20:04:39] <JT-Shop> Y0 is usually far left as seen by the spindle and X0 is far back
[20:08:54] <joe9> I am having trouble aligning the workpiece straight on the mill table. Is there a trick to do it. when I draw a rectangle, I notice that the rectangle is slanted.
[20:14:00] <JT-Shop> joe9: not in a vise?
[20:14:32] <joe9> JT-Shop: no, I am not using a vise. just holding them down with clamps.
[20:14:35] <joe9> mini clamps
[20:14:57] <JT-Shop> do you have some dowels that fit tight in the T slots?
[20:15:34] <joe9> https://www.A2ZCorp.us/store/ProductDetailNP.asp?Cguid={612EEB5D-64E9-4BCE-8F28-1319A11C014F}&ProductID=5966&Category=WorkHolding:MillingClamps jt-shop.
[20:16:09] <JT-Shop> the table
[20:16:16] <joe9> jt-shop, I am making the workpiece myself. so, I could do what I want with it.
[20:16:17] <JT-Shop> nice clamps btw
[20:16:35] <joe9> JT-Shop: it is a good idea to just put some holes
[20:16:40] <joe9> in the workpiece, correct.
[20:16:53] <joe9> then I would not have to worry about alignment.
[20:17:29] <joe9> JT-Shop: is that what you are hinting at?
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[20:18:20] <JT-Shop> one trick is to put two dowels in the T slots and push the material up against the dowels and then clamp down...
[20:18:41] <JT-Shop> this aligns the back side to the X axis
[20:19:05] <joe9> JT-Shop: ok, thanks. got it. good idea.
[20:20:03] <JT-Shop> another way is to put a dowel in the spindle and put the dowel up against the back side and snug that side down then move the spindle to the other side and push up against the dowel and snug it
[20:20:23] <JT-Shop> along the X axis
[20:20:59] <r00t4rd3d> 420!
[20:21:09] <joe9> JT-Shop: what do you think of milling holes in the workpiece so that I can just use the t-nuts to attach it to the table?
[20:21:29] <joe9> joe9: will that help with alignment or is that not a bad idea?
[20:21:36] <joe9> the workpiece is wood, btw.
[20:22:33] <Jymmm> clamp/fasten an aligned carpenters square to the table
[20:23:44] <Jymmm> http://www.tooldex.com/product/LSS-36129/L-S-Starrett-36129-No-FS-24-Professional-Framing-Squares/
[20:26:51] <joe9> Jymmm: is that a better idea than just milling some holes in the workpiece?
[20:28:05] <Jymmm> joe9: I'd just toss some dowels on the table as reference/alignment points. Press the workpiece against the dowels, and your aligned
[20:28:55] <joe9> Jymmm: i can do that on the x-axis. but, on the y-axis, I will not have enough travel, if I use the groove in the table for dowels.
[20:29:00] <joe9> Jymmm: does that make sense?
[20:29:56] <Jymmm> how much extra Z do you have?
[20:30:08] <joe9> Z, i have a lot.
[20:30:32] <joe9> Y, the table is small. travel on y = 5.5 and my workpiece is 5inches on the Yaxis.
[20:30:52] <Jymmm> Then make a top that has an edge on the side that just drops into the existing tabletop
[20:31:20] <Jymmm> Like fastening 1/8" bar to the edge of a countertop to create a lip
[20:32:05] <Jymmm> If you don't have 1/8" of y to play with, I have no idea then
[20:32:09] <joe9> Jymmm: my current workpiece is actually a fixture to hold another workpiece.
[20:32:20] <Jymmm> and?
[20:32:32] <joe9> Jymmm: i can change this current workpiece to have what you are describing.
[20:33:02] <Jymmm> joe9: You know your limitations, these are jsut ideas you could try
[20:33:27] <joe9> i have 1/8" of Y to play with. will give your idea a wirl. thanks a lat.
[20:33:31] <joe9> s/lat/lot/
[20:34:18] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Amazon of McMaster http://www.amazonsupply.com/gateway/
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[20:39:29] <Jymmm> WOW, they have HUGE photos of products, nice!
[20:39:56] <ReadError> pasted it this mornin :)
[20:39:58] <ReadError> <3 amazon
[20:40:21] <FinboySlick> Waaaaah, they never ship that stuff to Canada.
[20:43:29] <Loetmichel> *grrrr* ... in principle that would be good... if i havent forgot to insert 2 times G00Z1 in the code... -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=13137
[20:44:06] <Loetmichel> tomorrow i have to buy new 1,5mm aluminium sheet and try a second time :-(
[20:44:25] <FinboySlick> Loetmichel: I think I see the mistake ;)
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[20:46:13] <archivist> duck tape
[20:46:14] <ReadError> ooopppps
[20:47:32] <Loetmichel> archivist: not for a demo computer for the next military fair...
[20:47:37] <Loetmichel> not a good idea ;-)
[20:48:18] <ReadError> tell them it caught a stray round
[20:48:22] <ReadError> but the computer was fine
[20:49:46] <archivist> this guy could fix it with his angle grinder http://vimeo.com/23095780
[20:54:06] <Jymmm> That dude is cool!
[20:54:21] <Jymmm> and does lathe work too
[20:54:46] <archivist> uses his toes like no other Ive seen
[20:55:56] <Jymmm> His grip is incrediable
[20:56:35] <Jymmm> and he's beating the crap out of those nails too!
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[20:58:59] <Loetmichel> i 3was thinking: how much times he would have hammerd his toenails blue until he got the craft?
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[21:04:08] <JT-Shop> joe9: you could drill a couple of holes and put dowels through there into the T slots
[21:04:38] <joe9> JT-Shop: thanks. that is what I am thinking of doing.
[21:05:18] <JT-Shop> once you say where X0 and Y0 offsets are and don't move the part you will always know where it is
[21:05:43] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[21:05:53] <joe9> JT-Shop: just wanted to check this: with an edge finder, is there a way to find the slant?
[21:06:06] <JT-Shop> slant?
[21:06:07] <joe9> just check the X or Y at the top and then at the bottom.
[21:06:16] <DJ9DJ> gn9 Jymmm ;)
[21:06:27] <Jymmm> DJ9DJ: GN8
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[21:06:37] <joe9> JT-Shop: if the piece is not properly aligned on the table. and the X at the top is not the same as the X at the bottom.
[21:06:54] <Thetawaves> http://mail.rtai.org/pipermail/rtai/2008-August/020019.html
[21:06:58] <JT-Shop> by top and bottom do you mean along the Z axis?
[21:07:01] <Thetawaves> seems the omniflash is supported with rtai
[21:07:35] <joe9> JT-Shop: no, I meant the start of X travel of the workpiece and the end of X travel of the workpiece.
[21:07:53] <joe9> check the X at one edge and then X at the other end of the travel
[21:08:27] <joe9> and incorporate that angle into the gcode.
[21:08:42] <joe9> similar to touch off and using those as the workpiece 0.
[21:09:05] <Thetawaves> rtai might work on friendlyarm's mini2440
[21:09:13] <JT-Shop> ay, use the edge finder to find the angle along the X or use it to make it parallel to the X axis
[21:09:17] <Thetawaves> 433mhz
[21:09:22] <Thetawaves> probably enough to run linuxcnc
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[21:10:27] <JT-Shop> joe9: if you put a dowel in the spindle and set both ends of X to the same Y location you are now parallel to X... much better than fiddling around with code
[21:10:29] <joe9> JT-Shop: quick question, is it a big deal to incorporate that angle into gcode?
[21:10:59] <JT-Shop> you can rotate about Z with one of the G10's or something I forget which one
[21:11:16] <JT-Shop> much better to just position the material properly
[21:11:39] * JT-Shop goes to check daughter mowing lawn...
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[21:12:19] <rob_h> the CHNC lives again and is already dirty :D
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[21:14:56] <JT-Shop> YEA!
[21:15:02] <JT-Shop> I need to clean mine
[21:15:14] <FinboySlick> JT-Shop: Don't you have a dog called girlfriend?
[21:15:38] <JT-Shop> my girlfriend's name is Cocoa
[21:15:47] <FinboySlick> OK.
[21:16:06] <FinboySlick> Heh... Might have been Tom.
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[21:16:17] <FinboySlick> I sort of get you two mixed up for some reason.
[21:16:19] <rob_h> yea JT-Shop now for the next one
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[21:17:21] <FinboySlick> I thought it was clever at any rate.
[21:17:22] <rob_h> o and make a video for all to see
[21:17:51] <Jymmm> Coco http://blogs.krxq.net/files/2010/06/Coco.jpg
[21:19:15] <JT-Shop> that's her sister
[21:19:30] <Jymmm> lol
[21:19:37] <JT-Shop> rob_h: you doing the superslant next?
[21:19:51] <rob_h> they both done
[21:19:57] <rob_h> it will be a 2nd mill next
[21:20:15] <JT-Shop> I need to do my BP knee mill
[21:20:46] <rob_h> yea
[21:20:57] <rob_h> so now its 3 lathes . 1mill in the shop with linuxcnc :)
[21:22:05] <FinboySlick> Jymmm: Must have needed a lot of g5.2 to make that one. (curves, get it? ;)
[21:22:21] <Jymmm> lol
[21:22:40] <FinboySlick> Thank you, I'll be here all week...
[21:23:20] <r00t4rd3d> I wonder if someone will write cnc software for the raspberry pi.
[21:23:43] <r00t4rd3d> or port it
[21:24:14] <FinboySlick> r00t4rd3d: I think there's already effort to get linuxcnc working well on arm. If it doesn't already.
[21:24:16] <Jymmm> FinboySlick: http://tinyurl.com/2d3ndht
[21:24:57] <r00t4rd3d> that would be nice
[21:25:14] <FinboySlick> r00t4rd3d: Might be a tad underpowered.
[21:25:37] <r00t4rd3d> hmm , no parallel port either
[21:25:46] <FinboySlick> I think it has good gpio.
[21:26:04] <FinboySlick> Depending on how it's connected, that might work.
[21:26:18] <r00t4rd3d> maybe a breakout board for it with pp and stepper control
[21:26:34] <FinboySlick> r00t4rd3d: gpio is more flexible than pp.
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[21:26:54] <FinboySlick> I just don't know if it's fast/reliable enough.
[21:27:55] <FinboySlick> I think someone tossed together a gpio-based vga adapter once, it must be pretty fast.
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[21:38:57] <Thetawaves> gpio should be able to operate at the speed of the arm amba bus
[21:39:05] <Thetawaves> or apb
[21:39:14] <Thetawaves> or what ever bus that omap chip uses
[21:42:23] <Thetawaves> The BCM2835 system uses an AMBA AXI-compatible interface structure.
[21:42:39] <Thetawaves> it's actually a broadcom chip not omap (my mistake)
[21:44:56] <Thetawaves> the chip has 54 gpio lines, but many of those are probably used for other raspberry pi things
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[21:45:26] <r00t4rd3d> someone made a gpio shield for it
[21:46:02] <FinboySlick> Thetawaves: They only left 8gpio.
[21:46:09] <FinboySlick> One would be better with a pandaboard.
[21:46:13] <Thetawaves> i would not at all be surprised if gpio is as fast as the external memory bus
[21:46:44] <r00t4rd3d> gertboard
[21:46:46] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/868
[21:47:01] <Thetawaves> FinboySlick, neither the pandaboard or raspberry pi support rtai (and its unlikely to happen in either case. just a little less unlikely with raspberry pi)
[21:47:08] <r00t4rd3d> GPIO Expansion Module
[21:47:33] <r00t4rd3d> It will run Quake 3 so it should run any cnc software :)
[21:47:43] <Thetawaves> i got that backwards, rtai doesn't support raspberry pi or pandaboard
[21:48:34] <Thetawaves> this isn't such a big deal except the amount of people capable of kernel hacking on arm linux is a finite resource
[21:48:42] <Thetawaves> if you want to try, go for it
[21:49:19] <FinboySlick> Thetawaves: Heh, had a tough enough time trying to get it working on an ALIX.
[21:49:46] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/411
[21:50:27] <Thetawaves> that post doesn't say anything about how it works
[21:50:34] <Thetawaves> it looks like its spi based
[21:51:24] <r00t4rd3d> there is a few video's and more posts about it, that was the first one
[21:51:39] <r00t4rd3d> search gertboard
[21:51:45] <Thetawaves> so only 8 gpio left on the b model?
[21:51:50] <Thetawaves> what about on the a model?
[21:52:10] <JT-Shop> joe9: are you sorted out on placing your material on the mill?
[21:52:28] <FinboySlick> wiki uses the same line for both models concerning gpio.
[21:53:12] <Thetawaves> awww :(
[21:53:48] <r00t4rd3d> #raspberrypi-dev
[21:53:50] <r00t4rd3d> #raspberrypi
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[21:55:03] <r00t4rd3d> I have a mini itx mother board I am going to run my software with but it would be cool to able to bolt a tiny computer to the side of my router
[21:55:31] <Thetawaves> you can get pc104 formfactor atom boards
[21:55:41] <r00t4rd3d> yeah but huge money
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[21:56:17] <r00t4rd3d> most mini itx boards have parallel ports
[21:58:30] <joe9> JT-Shop: thanks for asking. i think i am.
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[22:02:16] <JT-Shop> cool
[22:03:03] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop what screw pitch do you have on your plasma cutter do you know?
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[22:10:19] <JT-Shop> on my Z axis?
[22:10:58] <Tom_itx> any?
[22:11:53] <Tom_itx> you have ball screws on it don't you?
[22:12:09] <JT-Shop> timing belt drive on X and Y
[22:12:20] <JT-Shop> acme screw for Z
[22:12:21] <Tom_itx> oh
[22:12:34] <Tom_itx> belt clamped to the table?
[22:14:07] <JT-Shop> http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f163/johnplctech/Plasma%20Cutter/P1010051.jpg
[22:14:12] <JT-Shop> http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f163/johnplctech/Plasma%20Cutter/P1010049.jpg
[22:14:17] <JT-Shop> http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f163/johnplctech/Plasma%20Cutter/P1010052.jpg
[22:14:28] <JT-Shop> http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f163/johnplctech/Plasma%20Cutter/Plasma003.jpg
[22:15:43] <Tom_itx> what's the pulley ratio?
[22:15:52] <Tom_itx> that wouldn't work so good for a mill
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[22:23:09] <JT-Shop> no, too weak for a mill... top speed is ~500IPM with the gear ratio I have
[22:24:25] <Tom_itx> that's pretty good
[22:24:51] <Tom_itx> did you get the sprockets from mcmaster?
[22:26:09] <JT-Shop> yea, but I machined out the big one to lighten it up
[22:26:26] <Tom_itx> i noticed that
[22:26:35] <Tom_itx> that's kinda why i asked
[22:27:03] <JT-Shop> yea, I had more time and less money... now less time and less money
[22:27:08] <Tom_itx> workin on my psu tonight a bit
[22:27:11] e-ndy is now known as e-ndy|afk
[22:27:31] <Tom_itx> the stock market could crash and i'd never know it
[22:27:38] <JT-Shop> what did you end up using?
[22:27:55] <Tom_itx> i'll go snap a pic of what i got, just started though
[22:27:59] <Tom_itx> i got the 203v's
[22:28:06] <Tom_itx> for drivers
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[22:29:06] <Tom_itx> i'm still keepin my eye out for a cheap enclosure for all the electronics
[22:29:16] <Loetmichel> *HA!* MUCH BETTER! ... no all i have to do tomorrow is to mill the lower frame and to cut some 20mm filter wool sheet to size, then it cam be mounted on the Computer front... -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=13140
[22:33:12] <djdelorie> Thetawaves: The RPi has 8 pins which are "just" gpio, but most of the pins *could* be used as plain GPIO
[22:38:33] <Thetawaves> aren't they wired into other circuits though
[22:38:42] <Thetawaves> you would have to do some surgery to use them, correct
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[22:39:02] <Thetawaves> ?
[22:39:13] <djdelorie> on the RPi itself, that I/O header is documented as "most of these can be used as plain GPIO"
[22:39:34] <djdelorie> so you *could* use the TXD/RXD uart pins as just two more I/O pins
[22:39:45] <Thetawaves> so the rpi has a header much larger than 8 pins? *what a relief*
[22:39:53] <JT-Shop> Loetmichel: did you cut out all the slots?
[22:41:09] <JT-Shop> ah luft is air of some sort
[22:41:34] <JT-Shop> now I know what 99 luft balloons are
[22:41:51] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/temp/cnc/psu/psu1.jpg
[22:41:59] <JT-Shop> but my favorite is in die Luft fliegen
[22:42:09] <Tom_itx> i'm gonna mount the diode packs to the bottom
[22:42:29] <JT-Shop> what's the three transformers for?
[22:42:38] <Tom_itx> my new power supply?
[22:42:49] <Tom_itx> i got em surplus
[22:42:54] <JT-Shop> ok
[22:43:10] <Tom_itx> should end up at 53v 18A
[22:43:17] <JT-Shop> nice
[22:43:19] <djdelorie> http://elinux.org/Rpi_Low-level_peripherals - max 17 GPIO but you have to put in your own 3.3v level converters
[22:43:31] <Tom_itx> i think i gotta get some bigger caps for it
[22:43:33] <JT-Shop> I would blow something up if I tried to do that
[22:43:49] <Tom_itx> if i find an enclosure i'll mount them in it
[22:43:58] <Tom_itx> this is kinda a temp setup
[22:43:58] <JT-Shop> I do know what the square thingy is :-)
[22:44:23] <Tom_itx> good heatsink for the diodes
[22:44:33] <JT-Shop> the aluminum?
[22:44:37] <Tom_itx> yeah
[22:44:42] <Loetmichel> JT-Shop: sure
[22:44:44] <JT-Shop> yea
[22:44:56] <JT-Shop> Loetmichel: nice
[22:45:10] <r00t4rd3d> http://imgur.com/a/bSVs9
[22:45:16] <Tom_itx> i think it's 5/16 or 3/8 in the middle
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[22:45:20] <Loetmichel> JT-Shop: its a air filter for this case: http://winwebcomputer.com/admin/images/DELL-Optiplex-390M%20.jpg
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[22:46:12] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop did you put a fan on your drivers?
[22:46:23] <Loetmichel> because the company i work for makes PCs eavesdropping-proof, and they are sealed.
[22:46:43] <Loetmichel> so noone can put compressed air inside to de-dust it
[22:47:02] <r00t4rd3d> All my build so far:
[22:47:02] <r00t4rd3d> http://imgur.com/a/yBVvz
[22:47:03] <Loetmichel> so we have to provide a solution for an external dust filter
[22:47:22] <andypugh> JT-Shop: Have you seen the Servobelt idea which uses a second belt glued to the frame teeth-up to increase the stiffness?
[22:47:46] <Loetmichel> r00t4rd3d: do you really think MDF is the right choice for a mill?
[22:47:53] <Tom_itx> andypugh what sort of glue?
[22:48:09] <andypugh> Tom_itx: It's pretty easy to make a cabinet out of 20x20 + mdf board.
[22:48:11] <r00t4rd3d> what makes it a mill?
[22:48:16] <Tom_itx> with the belt flexing it would have to be mighty good glue
[22:48:17] <Loetmichel> i use wood, too, but i use "siebdruckplatte", wich is plywood glued with melamine
[22:48:29] <Loetmichel> MUCH more resistive to change in humidity
[22:48:29] <Tom_itx> andypugh i know
[22:48:39] <Tom_itx> i was hoping for a metal cabinet with a door
[22:48:43] <andypugh> Tom_itx: The point of the glue is so that the lower belt can't flex.
[22:48:57] <Tom_itx> so the pulley rides over it?
[22:49:02] <r00t4rd3d> Loetmichel, I am going to redo each piece in aluminum if it works
[22:49:16] <Loetmichel> ah, its more or less a template
[22:49:38] <r00t4rd3d> or ill sell it on ebay for 800 bucks
[22:49:39] <Loetmichel> like the side bars of the gantry on the one i am building fopr my co-worker...
[22:50:29] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=13131 <- templates also, until the machine is running and can mill its sides from 14mm aluminium ;-)
[22:50:38] <Loetmichel> its like muenchhausen ;-)
[22:51:15] <andypugh> Tom_itx: No, the pulley engages a belt in the normal way, and that belt engages the fixed belt.
[22:51:17] <andypugh> http://bell-everman.com/products/linear-positioning/servobelt-linear-sbl
[22:51:24] <andypugh> Click "how it works"
[22:52:50] <Tom_itx> oh i see
[22:52:54] <Tom_itx> that's pretty cool
[22:52:56] <andypugh> It's rather clever
[22:53:57] <andypugh> mhaberler: I am compiling your experiment right now.
[22:54:02] <Tom_itx> i wonder if the extra loops on the upper would stretch it or wear quicker than the lower one
[22:54:12] <mhaberler> super!
[22:54:38] <andypugh> The rotary servobelt looks like an excellent way to drive a rotary axis
[22:55:17] <Loetmichel> JT-Shop_ the second sheet has only used up about 45 minuts machine time, i went a bit hasty
[22:55:19] <mhaberler> I'm already looking into switching to a secondary motion queue, it looks straightforward
[22:55:21] <JT-Shop> andypugh: no, I've seen the one that uses a rack I think and the only loose part of the belt is very short... maybe the same thing
[22:55:22] <andypugh> Though, actually, I think that ends up being identical to a small loop off of a big pully.
[22:55:25] <andypugh> (pulley)
[22:55:53] <andypugh> mhaberler: Then back that up, and you can start cutting again :-)
[22:55:58] <JT-Shop> yea, I know what you mean
[22:56:04] <Loetmichel> 24KRPM, 2mm 2 flute tungsten carbide, F1200, 0,5mm cutting depth
[22:56:38] <Loetmichel> and taht is hobby shop aluminium... AL99,9 i think, its like Chewing gum
[22:56:45] <mhaberler> hopefully
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[22:57:04] <andypugh> mhaberler: I guess you need to snapshot the point where the machine actually stops, back-calculate that into the non-offset queue and add it at the beginning of that queue?
[22:58:36] <mhaberler> that is left as an exercise for the reader.. no really for now I see which of the fanuc retracts can be had at finite effort, but it helps me understanding better whats going on between motion and task
[23:00:50] <JT-Shop> andypugh: yea, I've seen one similar to that before with some lightning fast speeds
[23:01:12] <alex4nder> hey
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[23:02:23] <JT-Shop> 4 m/sec is pretty fast...
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