#linuxcnc | Logs for 2012-04-16

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[00:10:51] <r00t4rd3d> http://i.imgur.com/nQKQz.jpg
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[00:16:29] <JT-Shop> what's happening guys, it's fixing to storm here...
[00:16:50] <pfred1> its hot here
[00:16:54] <Tecan> just looking on milfbay.com
[00:17:04] <pfred1> I can't remember the last time it rained it is like death valley around here lately
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[00:17:37] * Tecan is just cooking eggs on his steppers
[00:18:23] <JT-Shop> that's just a tad hot for them I'd imagine
[00:18:57] <ReadError> hey joe9
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[00:19:02] <ReadError> how many switches you end up with?
[00:21:02] * Tecan puts some freezies on his motors
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[00:21:53] <Valen> Tecan: perhaps look at reducing your current and adding fans?
[00:22:10] <Tecan> i need it to go faster
[00:22:26] <Tecan> working on it :)
[00:22:42] <thinpete> Came home and there was a turkey in our backyard, that was something of a surprise
[00:23:29] <Tecan> its in the oven now ?
[00:23:56] <Valen> faster = more volts, not more amps as a rule
[00:25:06] <thinpete> no, the sheep ganged up on it and chased it away
[00:28:23] <Tecan> is there a way to make the home all axis button appear ?
[00:29:43] <ReadError> http://i.imgur.com/qePKl.png
[00:29:48] <ReadError> how we lookin guys?
[00:30:20] <pfred1> Valen more volts does = more amps as a rule
[00:30:38] <pfred1> especially when driving an inductive load
[00:30:41] <Valen> not with a smart enough controller ;-P
[00:30:59] <pfred1> no controller is so smart it can make volts where they don't exist
[00:32:01] <pfred1> electricity is one place where yo ureally can't say that potential is meaningless
[00:33:43] <Valen> its called current limiting
[00:34:26] <Valen> you limit the current to say 2A with whatever voltage you have available, the motor will see 3V at stall and 30V when its doing 10kRPM
[00:35:34] <pfred1> oh really and i always thought it was called pulse width modulation
[00:36:06] <pfred1> based on a current sensing feedback loop
[00:36:45] * pfred1 has made a couple stepper motor drivers ...
[00:37:04] <Valen> and the function of your PWM is to do what?
[00:37:07] <Valen> limit current perhaps?
[00:37:16] <pfred1> slice the voltage
[00:37:26] <Valen> for the purpose of?
[00:37:27] <pfred1> turns it on and off very quickly
[00:37:39] <pfred1> speed
[00:37:44] <Valen> i have built 600A DC motor controllers, I know what PWM does
[00:38:18] * pfred1 does it all in the name of speed!
[00:38:20] <Valen> and the reason you do it in a stepper controller is to limit the current
[00:38:25] <Valen> speed needs voltage
[00:38:36] <Valen> to overcome the backemf of the motor
[00:38:48] <pfred1> no you increase the apparent current by raising the voltage
[00:39:05] <Valen> if you increase the amps going through the motor it gets hotter
[00:39:26] <pfred1> it might
[00:39:39] <Valen> i^2R
[00:39:41] <Valen> it does
[00:39:47] <pfred1> depends how much liquid nitrogen you have on hand and are willing to dump on it
[00:39:57] <Valen> doesn't change the heat output
[00:40:06] <Valen> copper doesn't become a superconductor at Ln2 temps
[00:40:22] <pfred1> but it sure don't get much hotter if you take the heat away
[00:40:34] <Valen> beside the point
[00:40:46] <pfred1> for you perhaps
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[00:49:12] <joe9> ReadError: 3 switches, one on each axis.
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[00:56:23] <eric_unterhausen> saw a vandal-proof mailbox tonight while out riding my bike
[00:56:29] <eric_unterhausen> it was on hinges
[01:01:01] <JT-Shop> I thought the brick and mortar ones were vandal-resistant
[01:01:13] <JT-Shop> eric_unterhausen: what do you ride?
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[01:06:04] <ReadError> joe9: got any pics of how you mounted?
[01:06:21] <ReadError> http://i.imgur.com/qePKl.png
[01:06:22] <r00t4rd3d> lol
[01:06:26] <ReadError> thats what i got
[01:06:36] <ReadError> but i might be able to append the switches
[01:07:06] <joe9> no pics. I just mounted them with double-sided tape from homedepot (th 7lb one) and harbor freight ($3.99) clamps.
[01:07:22] <joe9> for the z-axis, the double sided tape is holding it pretty well.
[01:07:38] <joe9> for the x and y axes, I needed the clamps to hold them well.
[01:09:34] <r00t4rd3d> what did you mount with tape?
[01:09:50] <pfred1> joe9 are these your home switches?
[01:10:06] <joe9> r00t4rd3d: the home/limit switch
[01:10:21] <r00t4rd3d> oh
[01:11:16] <pfred1> ReadError they soaked you $130 for a PSU?
[01:11:23] <r00t4rd3d> lol
[01:11:31] <alex4nder> pfred1: don't taunt the noobs
[01:11:39] <ReadError> pfred1
[01:11:44] <ReadError> if i ordered from china
[01:11:48] <ReadError> i could it get much less
[01:11:53] <ReadError> but then i wait..
[01:12:02] <alex4nder> ReadError: you're still going for the large steppers?
[01:12:23] <r00t4rd3d> ReadError
[01:12:23] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.ebay.com/itm/120674032390?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
[01:12:32] <pfred1> I got some twin stack NEMA 23 200 oz/in motors for $12.95 too
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[01:13:22] <ReadError> r00t4rd3d
[01:13:25] <ReadError> ide need 2 of them
[01:13:49] <pfred1> the G450 is a good deal
[01:14:16] <r00t4rd3d> ReadError, you really need 48v ?
[01:14:24] <r00t4rd3d> only 3a motors
[01:14:49] <ReadError> thats what everyone else has
[01:14:53] <r00t4rd3d> lol
[01:14:57] <r00t4rd3d> thats not reason to use it
[01:15:02] <pfred1> I don't
[01:15:06] <r00t4rd3d> me either
[01:15:08] <pfred1> I made my own motor drivers
[01:15:17] <pfred1> they're no geckos though
[01:15:28] <ReadError> deepgroove uses one
[01:15:39] <pfred1> but they're so cheap I can use 2 an axis so its a wash
[01:16:17] <r00t4rd3d> ReadError, three 3amp motors? is 3x3+2=11amps you need
[01:17:00] <ReadError> but how much voltage per motor?
[01:17:03] <ReadError> volts
[01:17:10] <r00t4rd3d> what are they rated?
[01:17:20] <pfred1> I only run 24V system
[01:17:38] <pfred1> but i can drive at 800 RPM and I really don't want to run my lead screw any faster than that
[01:17:47] <r00t4rd3d> 12-16V DC power supply for Nema 17 stepper motors
[01:17:48] <r00t4rd3d> 16-24V DC power supply for Nema 23 stepper motors
[01:17:48] <r00t4rd3d> 24-36V DC power supply for Nema 34 stepper motors
[01:18:13] <alex4nder> I run my NEMA23 steppers at 48V
[01:18:22] <pfred1> that's nice
[01:18:29] <alex4nder> yah, they are
[01:18:44] <pfred1> what kind of lead screws do yo uhave?
[01:18:53] <r00t4rd3d> more volts means more speed if they can handle it right?
[01:19:01] <pfred1> can they really handle 3,000 RPM?
[01:19:08] <alex4nder> pfred1: allthread I made myself using rebar
[01:19:22] <r00t4rd3d> lol
[01:19:24] <pfred1> I guess that answers that question
[01:20:23] <pfred1> all the higher volts nets you is higher top speeds
[01:20:25] <alex4nder> pfred1: what's limiting in my setup is my host stepgen rate
[01:20:32] <pfred1> at some point you're going fast enough
[01:21:00] <pfred1> past that it really isn't gaining you anything
[01:21:01] <ReadError> i can go fast in between cuts tho right?
[01:21:09] <pfred1> no
[01:21:17] <pfred1> leadscrews can only be driven so hard
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[01:21:35] <alex4nder> you can run the Taig screws at 3000 RPM
[01:21:44] <pfred1> say a 1/2 x 10 rod fixed both ends you might get 2,500 RPM out of it
[01:22:18] <pfred1> yeah on a little thing like a taig yo udon't have to deal with much distance
[01:22:27] <ReadError> alex4nder: you think it will be a viable setup?
[01:22:32] <pfred1> then again you're not really traveling 4 feet from end to end
[01:22:34] <alex4nder> ReadError: you're overthinking it
[01:22:38] <Tecan> http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/56/Tesla3.jpg/220px-Tesla3.jpg&imgrefurl=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikola_Tesla&h=280&w=220&sz=16&tbnid=wawKKoMpownqpM:&tbnh=90&tbnw=71&zoom=1&docid=rDo_IH_qvytS2M&sa=X&ei=7XOLT9WjLqebiAKX0ID9Cw&ved=0CCQQ9QEwAQ << going to engrave this next probably
[01:22:41] <alex4nder> pfred1 isn't wrong, but it's not going to matter.
[01:23:17] <alex4nder> running the taig over 60 IPM isn't something you're going to do all day
[01:24:17] <ReadError> i just wanted a decent solid setup
[01:24:31] <ReadError> something where i wont *facepalm* later
[01:24:40] <alex4nder> you won't facepalm at 24 or 48 volts
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[01:24:45] <pfred1> oh don't worry you will
[01:24:50] * JT-Shop finally got a good rpm chart for bi-metalic hole saws
[01:24:52] <ReadError> seemed most of the premade 'kits' run similar setups
[01:24:58] <pfred1> have you calculated your lead screw forces yet?
[01:24:59] <alex4nder> haha yah, you'll facepalm when you run the endmill into your table
[01:25:21] <pfred1> then wondered why you have a machine that can jack a car up?
[01:25:45] <ReadError> alex4nder: im going to use some HDPE under my meterial
[01:26:20] <pfred1> JT-Shop write the speeds right on the kit
[01:26:30] <pfred1> because you'll get tired of going to the chart
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[01:26:36] <alex4nder> ReadError: I'm talking about the things you aren't preparead for
[01:27:23] <ReadError> alex4nder: i did get the "panic" button
[01:27:26] <pfred1> ReadError why not use MDF?
[01:27:26] <alex4nder> nice
[01:27:43] <JT-Shop> my kit is a tubby full of hole saws
[01:28:14] <pfred1> HDPE is kind of slippery stuff
[01:28:21] <ReadError> pfred1: i can go either way
[01:28:28] <ReadError> i just have some already
[01:28:31] <ReadError> but can get something else
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[01:28:53] <pfred1> I like the shelves they sell in the home centers cheap and managable
[01:29:05] <pfred1> plus it is a better grade of MDF than the crap they sell by the sheet
[01:30:08] <pfred1> when I bought one it was $3.50 for a 1x4 shelf
[01:30:50] <pfred1> that'd cover your taig
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[01:44:28] <Valen> btw after running the mill for a while you want acceleration far more than speed
[01:44:53] <Valen> cutting some complex thing our mill hardly ever even makes it to the cut speed, let alone the rapid speed
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[01:49:36] <pfred1> http://isanyoneup.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Silly-String-birthday-fire.gif
[01:51:00] <pfred1> I like how the little kid in the back is wearing safety glasses
[01:53:20] <JT-Shop> say goodnight Gracie
[01:53:39] <pfred1> goodnight Gracie
[01:54:01] <JT-Shop> :-)
[01:54:13] <pfred1> as many times as I watch this animated gif it just never gets old
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[02:51:03] <joe9> what does this "Lg. of Cut" mean? I am trying to select an endmill and this parameter is listed.
[02:51:30] <joe9> not sure what it means. googling on that phrase is not giving anything useful. what does "Lg." stand for?
[02:52:43] <Tom_itx> length?
[02:52:57] <Tom_itx> length of the flutes
[02:55:06] <joe9> that does not make sense. for something like this: http://www.mcmaster.com/#8832a241
[02:55:18] <joe9> it is a 10 mil end mill and the Lg. of cut is 15 mil.
[02:55:31] <joe9> so, does that mean that it removes 15 mil of material?
[02:55:50] <Tom_itx> the flute length from the shank to the tip
[02:55:50] <joe9> "Miniature Carbide 2-Flute End Mill SQ, Short Flute, .010" Dia, .015" L Cut, TIALN"
[02:55:54] <joe9> is the description.
[02:56:04] <Tom_itx> short flute is a dead giveaway
[02:56:25] <joe9> Tom_itx: yes, you are correct. it seems to be the length of the flutes.
[02:56:46] <joe9> Tom_itx: "short flute is a dead giveaway" -- is that good or bad?
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[02:57:00] <Tom_itx> it just confirms what i said
[02:57:10] <joe9> i need to mill pcb's with 10 mill clearance.
[02:57:43] <joe9> so, the flute length should not matter for the cut that I am making. correct?
[02:59:06] <joe9> or, should I be looking at http://www.mcmaster.com/#8832a231
[02:59:13] <joe9> whose length of cut is 10 mil?
[02:59:28] <Tom_itx> mil or mm?
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[03:02:43] <joe9> Tom_itx: mil, please.
[03:04:46] <alex4nder> touchoff with an endmill like that is going to be fun
[03:05:28] <joe9> alex4nder: why, is it bad?
[03:05:46] <Tom_itx> it'll probably snap
[03:05:56] <alex4nder> that's what would worry me
[03:06:07] <alex4nder> I've broken much larger carbine endmills by being slightly careless.
[03:06:12] <alex4nder> er carbide
[03:06:39] <joe9> for 10 mil clearances, my choices are "10 mil 30 degree V engraver" or an endmill like this.
[03:06:54] <joe9> should I just forget about using an endmill and just search for an engraver bit?
[03:07:29] <alex4nder> I'd buy some of the cheapest bits I could find just to play around with
[03:09:07] <joe9> ok, thanks.
[03:10:21] <alex4nder> I remember the first day I had the mill, and I bought a new carbide endmill
[03:10:37] <alex4nder> was about to stick it in the collet, dropped it on the floor, and the ends popped off.
[03:11:30] <joe9> i have a bunch of bits, but, I do not do not know if they are end mills or not. they have the plastic round collar. the collars I have are green, red, light green, light red, orange.
[03:11:44] <joe9> is there any way to identify what they are from the collar colors?
[03:11:48] <alex4nder> look at them with a 10x loupe
[03:11:54] <alex4nder> you'll know right away
[03:12:36] <WillenCMD> or get a magnet
[03:12:42] <WillenCMD> carbide is not magnetic
[03:12:43] <alex4nder> hah, yah
[03:14:49] <joe9> alex4nder: they have markings on them, such as "0.472 inches 1.20 mm"
[03:15:13] <alex4nder> is that how big the endmill is?
[03:15:52] <alex4nder> because that's 'big'
[03:16:19] <joe9> i bought them sometime ago thinking that they are drill bits.
[03:16:27] <joe9> which, they might be too.
[03:16:43] <alex4nder> well I think a jeweler's loupe or microscope is in your future, along with some dial calipers
[03:17:12] <joe9> i have the loupe. will check them with that, once I read up on the differences between endmills vs drill bits.
[03:17:17] <joe9> i have a calipers too.
[03:17:24] <joe9> missing the knowledge though.
[03:17:35] <joe9> will read up on them, thanks.
[03:19:09] <alex4nder> cool
[03:26:19] <WillenCMD> pick up a loop at harborfreight pretty damn cheap
[03:26:37] <WillenCMD> or by a Bosche&Lombe
[03:26:42] <WillenCMD> buy*
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[04:30:32] <WillenCMD> just when i think i got the sim working i can't get tklinuxcnc to work
[04:31:09] <WillenCMD> axis works, keystick works, but no tk
[04:36:59] <alex4nder> ReadError / joe9: http://www.andern.org/alexander/images/taig/taig_in_concrete.jpg <
[04:37:08] <alex4nder> to capture chips
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[05:22:20] <Tecan> http://imgur.com/yYrjf
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[05:46:09] <Loetmichel> mornin'
[05:49:57] <alex4nder> hey
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[08:16:00] <absinthetized> hi evrerybosy
[08:16:05] <absinthetized> everybody*
[08:16:20] <absinthetized> I've a quick question on supported i/o boards....
[08:16:55] <absinthetized> according to linuxcnc wiki the main issue with supported hw is related to the incompatibility between rtai drivers and stock kernel drivers...
[08:17:26] <absinthetized> this means that I should contact rtai devels in order to understand if a given pcie i/o card is supportted by their kernel?
[08:17:43] <absinthetized> or is there a simplier/faster solution?
[08:17:47] <absinthetized> thanck you
[08:17:50] <absinthetized> thank*
[08:26:01] <archivist> did you see http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?EMC2_Supported_Hardware
[08:26:51] <archivist> most popular seems to be the mesa cards for servo systems
[08:27:58] <absinthetized> yes I've looked at but we are coning to buy an adlink i/o borad (if supported) with 96 i/o. we have to manage up to 4 stepper motors...
[08:28:21] <absinthetized> with a lot of i/o
[08:28:36] <archivist> I run 5 steppers on one parallel port :)
[08:28:45] <absinthetized> so I was interested in understanding how to check hw compatibility *before* buying anything :-)
[08:28:52] <absinthetized> archivist: what???
[08:29:03] <absinthetized> how do you manage *all* the i/o?
[08:29:33] <archivist> what io...step and dir per motor
[08:29:34] <absinthetized> note we have 4 wire stepper motors ...
[08:30:15] <absinthetized> we have step/direction/fault/boost/enable
[08:30:44] <tiago> interesting, I have the same questions
[08:31:16] <absinthetized> total of 10 inputs + all the controls around... (home sensors, stops and so on...)
[08:31:36] <archivist> perhaps two off 7i43
[08:31:38] <absinthetized> the estimated number of 7/o is over 40...maybe 50!
[08:31:56] <absinthetized> mmm... archivist you say 7i43 mesa?
[08:32:08] <absinthetized> I'm not used with this company (I'm from italy)
[08:32:09] <archivist> yup
[08:32:22] <Valen> mesa all the way ;->
[08:32:34] <archivist> Valen, is in au
[08:32:48] <archivist> distance no problem
[08:32:57] <absinthetized> I'll chek it out! I'm mainly focusing on availability as we are talking about production of industry level automation machines for third parties...
[08:33:19] <absinthetized> sorry industry level = industrial grade
[08:33:32] <Valen> they are pretty good really, they make stuff for big things
[08:33:53] <Valen> talk to PCW about it
[08:33:54] <absinthetized> ok! so they worth a look no dublt :-)
[08:34:01] <absinthetized> pcw???
[08:34:08] <Valen> guy who works there
[08:34:14] <absinthetized> ah!
[08:34:16] <Valen> he is on here pretty regularly
[08:34:30] <Valen> to give you an idea
[08:34:46] <Valen> we voided the warrantly on our driver boards, rather spectacularly ;->
[08:34:52] <archivist> !seen PCW
[08:34:52] <the_wench> last seen in 2012-04-14 01:51:30GMT 55:43:22 ago, saying Quit: ChatZilla [Firefox 3.6.13/20101203075014]
[08:35:04] <Valen> pulling 20-30A from the 15A boards
[08:35:11] <archivist> naughty
[08:35:14] <Valen> we blew one channel after 2 years or so
[08:35:44] <Valen> because dad forgot to put the air into the Z axis so it was working way too hard
[08:36:47] <archivist> Im not a current mesa user, just watching who does what and available support
[08:36:57] <absinthetized> ok!
[08:38:23] <archivist> absinthetized, and did you see http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Case_Studies
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[08:39:23] <absinthetized> archivist: it seems no one is using our desired layout: a pcie i/o on top of a pc miniitx board
[08:39:50] <Valen> i don't know about pciE support in emc yet
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[08:40:00] <Valen> any paticular reason for that?
[08:40:09] <Valen> pci on mini-itx is pretty common
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[08:41:07] <absinthetized> well... we have a quite flexible layout:
[08:41:18] <absinthetized> we use a multicore multithread cpu for machine vision.
[08:41:29] <absinthetized> after mv has defined the path for our tools
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[08:41:48] <absinthetized> we disable acpi and ht on the fly, we use scheduler hotplug to reserve 1 core to rtai
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[08:41:58] <absinthetized> and we go with our tools...
[08:42:13] <Valen> yes but why do you require PCI-E over PCI?
[08:42:35] <absinthetized> simply plugging a pcie card (quite common between italian distributors) we don't need additional cables around the machine!
[08:42:52] <Valen> do you understand the difference between pcie and pci?
[08:43:07] <absinthetized> it was simply the most natural way looking at italian market distributors...
[08:43:13] <absinthetized> yes.
[08:43:21] <absinthetized> most important one: we only have pcie :-D
[08:43:42] <Valen> why?
[08:43:57] <Valen> use a mbo with pci
[08:44:10] <absinthetized> ok. seriously. I don't mind about pci over pcie or vice-versa NOW but I don't like the idea to deliver a new product on pci...
[08:44:40] <Valen> you can still get isa boards, industrial computers don't change that rapidly
[08:44:50] <Valen> if your keen you could even use their PC104 stack probably
[08:44:59] <absinthetized> we don't need industrial borads!
[08:45:09] <absinthetized> this is the reason!
[08:45:20] <absinthetized> we have no virations no aggressive environment
[08:45:55] <absinthetized> theoretically we could simply connect a consumer laptop looking at mechanical and chemical conditions
[08:46:15] <Valen> given the motherboard is ~$70 and linux is generally quite happy with being stuffed into a new machine I'd just get a known good configuration and run with it
[08:46:25] <Valen> laptops generally have quite bad latency
[08:47:04] <absinthetized> Valen: I know I was talking about the reliability we need if we consider the mechanical and chemical conditions during the processing
[08:48:03] <absinthetized> we have not to build a milling machine: we have to build a leather dyeing machine....
[08:48:13] <absinthetized> opposite of the spectrum regarding stress :-D
[08:51:27] <absinthetized> mmm mesa has very good products *BUT* all manuals seem down :-(
[08:53:32] <Valen> which one do you want?
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[08:55:42] <absinthetized> well I need a pcie (pci its ok after all) with at least 48 i/o
[08:56:28] <absinthetized> the closest thing I've seen is the 6I68 3X2X
[08:56:34] <absinthetized> with a doughter on...
[08:57:22] <Jymmm> 5i20
[08:58:20] <absinthetized> Jymmm: yes. you're right!
[08:58:43] <absinthetized> I'm still looking around... and it seems I'm overlooking many things on the site
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[09:01:44] <Jymmm> FWIW, many "modern" mobo's seems to be funky whrn it comes to PCIe slots. Some well be a 16x slot, but only run at 4x (as example), and will NOT accept anything other than a video card. So even if you have a RAID controller card, it won't be recognized.
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[10:44:49] <Loetmichel> harhar, i'm good... i just talked my boss into donating me a SBC and a backplane for the CNC of my co-worker.
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[10:45:12] <Loetmichel> we have one here with 2 fried usb prots, otherwise good...
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[10:45:56] <Jymmm> congrats
[10:45:59] <Loetmichel> so i get a Mainboard with P4 2ghz, a backplane, 4gb ram, a harddisk 80gb and a smalll PSU for free...
[10:46:14] <Loetmichel> 3ghz
[10:46:25] <Jymmm> P4? You poor bastard!
[10:46:31] <Loetmichel> and industrial quality, not consumer
[10:46:32] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[10:46:40] <Loetmichel> why?
[10:46:49] <Jymmm> It's a P4
[10:46:56] <Loetmichel> little bit hot.
[10:47:01] <Loetmichel> but who cares
[10:47:18] <archivist> I used a P4 for a long time, perfectly good for emc
[10:47:31] <Loetmichel> 3 ghz with hyperthtreading should be OK for Linuxcnc, i think
[10:47:35] <Loetmichel> or am i wrong?
[10:47:57] <Jymmm> P4 should be fine
[10:47:58] <archivist> mine was 1.4ghz iirc
[10:48:30] <alex_joni> Loetmichel: as long as you disable HT
[10:48:56] <Loetmichel> it will sound like a jet engine with the 1HE PUS (and its 2 40mm turbofans)
[10:49:02] <Loetmichel> PSU
[10:49:12] <Loetmichel> but thats not my conern, its not my machine ;-)
[10:49:18] <Loetmichel> +c
[10:49:49] <Loetmichel> alex_joni: whay?
[10:49:53] <Loetmichel> why
[10:49:58] <alex_joni> causes problems with RT sometimes
[10:50:30] <Loetmichel> ah, good to know
[10:51:20] <Loetmichel> hmm, the backplaneven has two isa slots left, so i can plug in a second and third LPT port...
[10:51:37] <Loetmichel> fine, than the spere are enough ioports fopr everything ;-)
[10:51:51] <Loetmichel> there
[10:51:55] <Loetmichel> for
[10:54:07] <Jymmm> ISA slots {goosbumps}
[10:54:55] <Jymmm> Hell, lets break out the amber monochrome crts!
[10:56:01] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: i happen to have about 10 brandnew old stock ISa LPT port cards running around ;-)
[10:56:20] <Loetmichel> so thats a perfect fit
[10:56:29] <Loetmichel> the backplane has PCI also
[10:56:32] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[10:57:59] <Jymmm> and I have a 8bit ISA monochrome/paraport card, but it's not meant to actually be USED, just nostalgia
[10:58:32] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: thats industrial PC, they have often isa
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[10:58:50] <alex_joni> the newest SBCs we use are PISA
[10:59:03] <Jymmm> one short of PITA ?
[10:59:04] <Loetmichel> we have some here with C2q , Pci-x, pci 64, pci, isa ;-)
[10:59:30] <Loetmichel> and dual cpu sockets ;-)
[10:59:38] <alex_joni> PISA = PCI + ISA
[10:59:46] <Jymmm> hmmm
[11:00:33] <ReadError> awwwwwww yea
[11:00:42] <ReadError> mill comes thursday, my day off ;)
[11:00:50] <alex_joni> Jymmm: http://www.icpamerica.com/Images/IP-6S-RS-Large.jpg
[11:01:36] <Jymmm> alex_joni: Oh, I thought "PISA" was some combined specialized connector
[11:01:55] <Jymmm> or is that middle one it?
[11:02:21] <alex_joni> yup, it is
[11:02:24] <alex_joni> http://www.prinser.com/images/pisas479lv2e(lg).jpg
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[11:03:01] <Jymmm> k
[11:03:12] <alex_joni> here's a better view: http://www.icpamerica.com/Images/IP-10S-RS-Large.jpg
[11:03:44] <Jymmm> WOW AT and ATX pwr connectors too
[11:03:55] <Jymmm> WOW! AT and ATX pwr connectors too
[11:04:14] <alex_joni> heh, gotta be backwards compatible ;)
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[11:06:03] <Jymmm> Hell, I guess I should pull my 486DX25 out then!
[11:07:19] <Jymmm> It even has DUAL 3C509 NIC's in it, plus an open PCI slot =)
[11:07:44] <Jymmm> or maybe an open ISA16 slot, don't recall.
[11:08:51] <Jymmm> Heh, that's even before CPU's had fans =)
[11:12:49] <alex_joni> heh
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[11:14:57] <Jymmm> alex_joni: you ever work on creating a production/packaging system?
[11:15:45] <Jymmm> load hoppers, align the items, insert into packing, etc
[11:16:11] <Jymmm> cut, seal, etc
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[11:20:19] <ReadError> Jymmm: or buy a 60$ atom mobo+cpu combo ;)
[11:20:50] <Jymmm> ReadError: link to $60 atom board?
[11:21:25] <ReadError> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813121442
[11:21:28] <ReadError> close enough ;)
[11:21:49] <Jymmm> ReadError: No, that's $75, not $60
[11:22:21] <Jymmm> $62 would be close
[11:23:03] <Jymmm> and it doens't even have a real lanchipset
[11:23:41] <Jymmm> =)
[11:24:40] <Valen> feh its a mill you dont need real lan
[11:25:20] <Jymmm> Valen: you would be surprised, especially since Linux + RealTek have "issues"
[11:25:48] <Valen> they have gotten better, at least somewhat
[11:25:56] <Valen> but no, not excelent
[11:26:11] <Jymmm> or just have an intel nic on an intel mobo, go figure.
[11:26:14] <jdhnc> that atom board + cheap case + 2gb + spare disk makes a really nice, compact, cheap low-latency box
[11:26:23] <Valen> I was just about to say something like that Jymmm
[11:26:31] <Valen> you would think intel nic intel mbo
[11:29:15] <ReadError> ya
[11:29:18] <ReadError> ddr3 is so cheap
[11:29:27] <Jymmm> and no they have not gotten better, you STILL can't get gigabit under linux using Realtek.
[11:29:38] <Valen> you can
[11:29:44] <Valen> it just explodes after a while
[11:30:10] <Jymmm> That's not a network then
[11:30:29] <Valen> didn't say it was good ;-P
[11:30:31] <ReadError> im using the realtek drivers from linux on my mac
[11:30:35] <ReadError> and i get gigabit ;p
[11:30:35] <Valen> about 1.2 gbytes i believe
[11:42:47] <Jymmm> Comms is in BITS, storage is in BYTES =)
[11:49:37] <jdhnc> I prefer to use nybbles per fortnight.
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[11:53:20] <Jymmm> LOL http://www.craftsman.com/shc/s/p_10155_12602_00932002000P?vName=Hand+Tools&cName=Pliers&sName=Pliers&prdNo=1&blockNo=1&blockType=L1
[11:53:31] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: you'll love that!
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[11:53:45] <Jymmm> wire cutters wiht a flashlight built in
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[11:56:58] <ReadError> how many 1-2-3 blocks i need?
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[12:09:33] <jdhnc> 12
[12:10:24] <Tom_itx> 2
[12:10:39] <Jymmm> 1-2-3-4
[12:13:53] <archivist> 42
[12:14:23] <archivist> ReadError, usually used in pairs
[12:14:42] <archivist> if you need them at all
[12:15:10] <alex_joni> archivist: heh 42
[12:15:38] <archivist> the answer to life the universe and everything
[12:15:42] <alex_joni> Jymmm: nope
[12:15:54] <Jymmm> alex_joni: k
[12:17:38] <alex_joni> archivist: obviously, just didn't know the question was 'how many 1-2-3 blocks I need?'
[12:17:45] <alex_joni> it all makes sense now
[12:18:43] <archivist> obligatory internet meme and and the real answer :)
[12:20:13] <archivist> ReadError, if you have spare cash and equipping fully stuff like http://www.millerstooling.com.au/page.asp?id=50
[12:20:52] <archivist> but often a bit of hss or some scrap is just as good
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[12:21:57] <archivist> add an axis or two and most of the angle jacking stuff not needed
[12:22:48] * archivist nips to shop
[12:24:17] <jthornton> seems to me that tools carefully purchased as needed are better than trying to hastily fill a tool box with things you "might" need
[12:26:10] <ReadError> i got 4
[12:26:16] <ReadError> a machinist square
[12:26:26] <ReadError> 8 extra tnuts, bolt set
[12:26:34] <ReadError> and a pair of clamps
[12:26:40] <ReadError> ;o
[12:48:15] <archivist> or just make clamps and packing as you go
[12:48:59] <jthornton> I made some angle thingys to mill different angles on parts in the vise
[12:49:24] <archivist> I do make arbors for mounting cutters on and gears to be cut
[12:52:10] <archivist> and every once in a while you put all the bits back in the clamp set then go on a chase for the missing bits
[12:56:28] <ReadError> i can probably hold pcbs using the 4 blocks, tnuts
[12:56:30] <ReadError> and some bolts
[12:56:35] <ReadError> rig something up right?
[12:57:18] <archivist> for pcb you wont need 132 blocks
[12:57:21] <archivist> 123
[12:58:19] <ReadError> yea but i can still rig somethin i think
[12:58:35] <ReadError> like a little ghetto vice
[12:59:46] <archivist> a bit of particle board bolted with the pcb stuck/clamped on top
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[13:32:07] <Loetmichel> hmmm... that looks promising for a livece-boot...
[13:32:19] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=13089&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
[13:32:59] <Loetmichel> dd of internal harddisk to nil, glxgears and a firefox with youtube playing HD (other screen)
[13:33:17] <Loetmichel> ist that ok?
[13:33:50] <jdhnc> dd to a non-DMA ide disk
[13:34:14] <Loetmichel> couldnt, no ide disks here ;-)
[13:34:52] <Loetmichel> is 9k/11k latency ok?
[13:34:54] <tiago> 10GB swap ..hehe
[13:35:39] <jdhnc> nice case anyway :)
[13:35:41] <Loetmichel> yes, was a bit generous when partitioning the internal HDD
[13:35:58] <Loetmichel> ist one of our frames for INSIDE the cfase
[13:36:01] <Loetmichel> case
[13:36:11] <Loetmichel> or did you meand the test stand?
[13:36:22] <Loetmichel> thats our test CPU
[13:36:30] <Loetmichel> for testing components
[13:36:46] <Loetmichel> it sits on wheels
[13:38:18] <Loetmichel> [15:34] <Loetmichel> is 9k/11k latency ok?
[13:38:43] <Loetmichel> its the same board i can take home for the CNC
[13:39:41] <archivist> Loetmichel, I found opening a large text file in gedit and then scrolling by the slider found a bad video card for me
[13:39:57] <Loetmichel> thats onboard vieo
[13:40:14] <Loetmichel> intzel 945
[13:40:17] <Loetmichel> intel
[13:40:22] <archivist> was a plugin card iirc
[13:41:48] <Loetmichel> http://www.icpamerica.com/products/single_board_computers/picmg_10/pentium_4/rocky_4786.html
[13:42:17] <Loetmichel> correction, its a Intel® Extreme Graphic II interegrated graphic engine
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[13:44:53] <archivist> some...integrated video have dedicated memory and should be ok
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[13:51:31] <fliebel> Hi, I have ubuntu 11.10 already on my pc, can I install LinuxCNC on that, or do I have to downgrade?
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[13:52:28] <jthornton> simulator?
[13:53:03] <fliebel> jthornton: ?
[13:53:29] <jthornton> do you want to control a CNC machine or just have a simulator?
[13:53:39] <fliebel> jthornton: Control a machine
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[13:54:15] <jthornton> the easy known to work way is to use the 10.04 LiveCD as you need a real time kernel
[13:55:19] <fliebel> jthornton: Hrm, ok. But then I have an old version of ubuntu and linuxcnc, right?
[13:56:23] <cradek> we don't build linuxcnc packages for 11.04. We only target the LTS releases.
[13:56:55] <cradek> the latest version of linuxcnc is 2.5.0, which we build for ubuntu 8.04 and 10.04
[13:57:41] <fliebel> cradek: Ah, that's the secret. So the live CD is the latest linuxcnc on the latest lts?
[14:00:53] <cradek> today, the live cd will give you the latest linuxcnc version, but typically it doesn't until you install updates
[14:01:22] <cradek> you just happen to be asking right after the first 2.5 release
[14:03:36] <fliebel> Is that just apt-get update linuxcnc, or is it more involved?
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[14:04:25] <cradek> apt-get update; apt-get upgrade
[14:04:46] <cradek> you also get prompting from the update manager which starts automatically
[14:05:03] <fliebel> coll, I'll get that cd
[14:05:35] <fliebel> I think I have a parallel "step & direction drive", but I'm not quite sure.
[14:06:56] <fliebel> Mine takes a byte like 10000010 to make a step and 100000001 to reverse, is that the same thing?
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[14:07:29] <cradek> what do you mean by takes a byte?
[14:07:29] <fliebel> (you toogle the 7 and 8 bits)
[14:07:51] <fliebel> cradek: Well, you set the parallel output lines to that.
[14:08:00] <jthornton> serial?
[14:08:05] <fliebel> jthornton: parallel
[14:08:36] <cradek> a step/dir drive moves one step on the rising (or falling) edge of one pin, in a direction described by the level of a second pin
[14:08:54] <cradek> your description isn't enough for me to understand what you mean
[14:09:08] <cradek> your drives will step on some kind of transition, which you haven't adequately described
[14:09:13] <jthornton> parallel pins are just off and on no bytes
[14:10:19] <fliebel> Ok, so to step motor one, you set the 1st pin, and then toggle the 7th pin. To change direction, you set the first pin and toggle the 8th pin.
[14:11:37] <cradek> do you have a pointer to documentation for this? it is not a familiar design.
[14:12:32] <fliebel> cradek: Erm, not exactly. I have a robot arm that uses the same protocol: http://pepijndevos.nl/2012/04/07/cyber-310.html
[14:12:58] <jdhnc> sounds like a cw/ccw but backwards
[14:13:11] <jthornton> is it any of these step types? http://linuxcnc.org/docview/html/hal/rtcomps.html#_stepgen_a_id_sec_stepgen_a
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[14:13:26] * jthornton sees a butt load of typos there...
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[14:14:06] <fliebel> jdhnc: Backwards?
[14:14:27] <cradek> no it's not a type stepgen currently supports
[14:14:46] <cradek> and I still don't understand it from this description :-/
[14:14:51] <jthornton> ok, I'll go back to tax forms
[14:15:03] <cradek> it seems like they need 3 bits for each motor?
[14:15:24] <jdhnc> perhpas bit 1 is just an enable or something and 7/8 are cw/ccw?
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[14:16:00] <fliebel> cradek: One bit per motor, 2 control bits. For example 10100010 would step motor 1 and 3.
[14:17:12] <cradek> so rising edge on 0x1 is "reverse" and rising edge on 0x2 is "forward" and the rest of the bits are level sensitive and select which motor(s) to turn?
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[14:17:21] <fliebel> jdhnc: yea, almost, 1-6 are the mask, 7 makes a step, 8 sets the direction.
[14:17:51] <cradek> how do you turn motor 1 forward a step and motor 2 backward a step?
[14:18:00] <fliebel> cradek: No, 8 sets the direction, and remembers it, 7 steps in that direction
[14:18:36] <jdhnc> any documentation for the drive? mfg/model?
[14:18:38] <fliebel> That would be 02000001 to reverse motor 2, and then 11000010 to step them.
[14:19:30] <fliebel> This is all the documentation I have: http://www.anf.nildram.co.uk/beebcontrol/arms/cyber/documents.html
[14:21:27] <cradek> I'm not sure whether this is something stepgen can be changed to do. I am positive it doesn't currently do this control scheme.
[14:21:57] <fliebel> :(
[14:23:03] <fliebel> I expected this to be some sort of standard, because the arm and the mill both use the exact same scheme, but apparently it was a huge coincidence.
[14:24:29] <cradek> so in the general case to move one motor one step, it takes six writes to the port?
[14:25:01] <cradek> select directions, strobe on, strobe off, select motors, strobe on, strobe off
[14:25:47] <fliebel> cradek: hm, I think you might be able to strip the strobe off, but I havn;t tested it that much.
[14:27:12] <fliebel> Because the last 2 bits just alternate in this case, so they are off while the other is on.
[14:27:17] <cradek> I imagine you could write a realtime component that does this, but it's a pretty terrible control scheme. I wonder if you could change the hardware to do step/dir or quadrature or up/down
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[14:28:22] <cradek> those have worst case number of outputs needed as 2, 1, 2 respectively
[14:28:28] <cradek> all are much better than 6
[14:29:24] <fliebel> cradek: I think you can do with 2 pulses. To step motor one forward and 2 backwards: 01000001, 11000010, and then repeat.
[14:29:53] <fliebel> But of you continue to step in the same direction, you can do with 2 for sure.
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[14:33:20] <fliebel> But fact is that this scheme is not currently supported, right? So even if someone implemented it, it would not be until the next LTS that I get to use it.
[14:34:25] <cradek> all sorts of misconceptions in your question - let me explain
[14:34:32] <archivist> you can do any implementation and use it
[14:34:35] <cradek> linuxcnc releases aren't tied to ubuntu releases
[14:34:49] <cradek> you can implement this yourself and build linuxcnc yourself, or have someone else do it
[14:35:29] <cradek> if you or someone else contribute this feature, it won't be in any 2.5.x releases because the stable branches get only bugfixes, not new features
[14:35:31] <archivist> and with some looking is it just bits like we already drive the parallel port
[14:36:38] <cradek> yes there's nothing stopping you from using this system, but it's otherworldly enough that you probably won't find a developer interested in adding it to stepgen.
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[14:36:56] <archivist> is this just a case of trying it and working out what bit does what and setting up the configs
[14:37:02] <fliebel> Hm, okay, so how hard would it be to set up a dev environment and implement it?
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[14:38:12] <thinpete> could this be done as a comp?
[14:38:34] <cradek> yes probably
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[14:39:06] <archivist> if it is really non standard, not convinced myself
[14:39:41] <cradek> information on compiling here: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Installing_EMC2
[14:39:58] <fliebel> comp?
[14:41:38] <archivist> a component that implements your needs http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/hal/comp.html
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[14:47:09] <fliebel> archivist: yu said something about configuration, do you think it is just a matter of setting the right parameters?
[14:47:44] <fliebel> First thing I read: "Writing a HAL component can be a tedious process" :(
[14:49:31] <archivist> fliebel, make a list of bits and their functions motor 1 step =bit ? see if it makes sense
[14:50:34] <cpresser> fliebel: it could be faster to get new stepper drivers. it just depends on waht you want to invest: time or money :)
[14:51:15] <archivist> methinks working out pin functions is only a few minutes work
[14:52:32] <cpresser> seconds that. but writing a working hal-component might consume a lot of time. especially if you are not a good programmer
[14:52:39] <fliebel> archivist: I got them worked out alright, I just need to translate them to a wording that makes sense.
[14:53:06] <archivist> fliebel, pastebin what you have
[14:53:20] <fliebel> archivist: I'll add some examples
[14:54:00] <archivist> some hardware wire cutting is what I would do to get direct to step/dir internal in the driver if needed
[14:54:21] <archivist> faster that writing hal or buying new drivers
[14:54:37] <archivist> have scope will travel
[14:56:57] <fliebel> archivist: http://pastebin.com/b9R4L1i2
[14:57:14] <fliebel> I have an oscilloscope, but wouldn;t know where to cut.
[14:57:55] <fliebel> the circuit is basically a nand gate and a fipflop
[14:58:46] <archivist> yuck that synchronises the step rates baaaaad
[14:59:00] <archivist> hack the hardware
[14:59:29] <fliebel> archivist: how?
[14:59:52] <archivist> after the logic what do you have
[15:00:16] <archivist> what are the actual stepper drivers
[15:00:52] <fliebel> archivist: don't know. Just another dip that goes to 3 other dips. After these first 2, I stopped loookign, and just ran the CYBER software.
[15:01:37] <fliebel> archivist: Also, the actual drivers are hidden underneath heatsinks.
[15:02:41] <archivist> once you know what those drivers are you can directly drive their step/dir pins
[15:03:01] <archivist> or write a hal comp :)
[15:03:46] <fliebel> ... or my own code interpreter, which is already half done, sortof.
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[15:05:32] <fliebel> If I skip the arc drawing, I can finish that quite quickly. I'd say even faster than writing a hal comp or messing with hardware.
[15:07:58] <archivist> you could put your hal between the step gens and the par port pins just interpreting changes as needed
[15:14:30] <fliebel> Erm the hal stuff is a bit over my head. I'll just hack together the software for what I assume is my gateway drug cnc machine.
[15:19:07] <fliebel> Mine doesnlt even run fast enough to warrant a real time kernel ;)
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[15:46:03] <alex4nder> hey
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[16:12:23] <ReadError> alex4nder
[16:12:26] <ReadError> ordered some goodies
[16:12:52] <alex4nder> nice, what did you get?
[16:13:33] <ReadError> 4 1-2-3 blocks
[16:13:39] <ReadError> machinist square
[16:13:40] <ReadError> TSNT2 Tuff Nut T-Nuts for Taig Lathe or Headstock (Bag of 8) 1 $17.45 $17.45
[16:13:40] <ReadError> SCS10-32 10-32 Socket Head Cap Screw Hardware Assortment 2 $12.95 $25.90
[16:13:40] <ReadError> WHMCL Mill Clamp Small Long set of 2, Self Adjusting 1 $32.95 $32.95
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[16:15:39] <alex4nder> nice
[16:15:46] <alex4nder> good stuff
[16:16:20] <syyl> i want metric 1-2-3 blocks :(
[16:16:25] <alex4nder> I really like the clamps
[16:16:49] <ReadError> everything i need for now you think?
[16:16:50] <alex4nder> syyl: you mean 25.4-50.8-76.2 blocks? ;D
[16:17:01] <ReadError> syyl: amazon has 25-50-75
[16:17:04] <ReadError> 11$
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[16:18:00] <alex4nder> ReadError: oh wait, those t-nuts are the wrong size
[16:18:02] <alex4nder> for the table
[16:18:18] <alex4nder> for the table you want TSNT1
[16:18:33] <ReadError> oh derp
[16:18:37] <ReadError> i better call them
[16:20:24] <alex4nder> ReadError: did you see that link for the concrete tub I cast for the taig?
[16:23:34] <ReadError> no sir
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[16:52:33] <Loetmichel> [mad scientist laughter] "IT WORKS!" [/mad scientist laughter]... -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=13092
[16:53:35] <Loetmichel> ... now i just have to get that stuff into the bottom of the CNC ;-) (and the PSU howls like a jet engine... :-)
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[16:57:31] <Loetmichel> ... i eveb found a working floppy drive ;-)
[16:57:35] <Loetmichel> even
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[17:04:37] <Dave911> jthornton: >> ok, I'll go back to tax forms << What's the rush.. we have until tomorrow midnight.. ;-)
[17:04:59] <Loetmichel> hrhr
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[17:09:19] <JT-Shop> but the P-Off is not open at midnight
[17:13:46] <Dave911> Stamps.com Allows printing postage for the current date up until midnight.. They cater to procrastinators. :-) It has saved my bacon several times.
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[17:19:15] <Loetmichel> hhrhr
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[17:24:27] <Loetmichel> ooooha... youtube in fullscreen isnt good for realtime on the p4... jitter of 24us
[17:41:45] <IchGuckLive> is there also a storm tornado forcast for today or only in the past 2 days in the USA
[17:42:01] <IchGuckLive> 125lives to claimd
[17:42:14] <Spida> Loetmichel: youtube in fullscreen looses fullscreen-ness if the browser looses focus. bad, if you have more than one screen
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[17:42:47] <Loetmichel> Spida: ???
[17:44:39] <Spida> Loetmichel: if you have more than one display, you cannot fullscreen youtube on one display, and continue whatever you did on the other.
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[17:45:25] <Loetmichel> that sounds logic
[17:45:38] <Loetmichel> but it was only a test of jitter
[17:45:40] <DJ9DJ> +al
[17:46:01] <Loetmichel> DJ9DJ: nitpic
[17:46:20] <DJ9DJ> ?
[17:46:38] <Loetmichel> DJ9DJ: korinthenkacker ;-)
[17:46:41] <DJ9DJ> hrhr
[17:47:00] <DJ9DJ> i see :)
[17:48:38] * Loetmichel thinks to spend the co-worker a pack of "ohropax" with the machine...
[17:49:16] <Loetmichel> the two 40mm fans in the psu and the 60mm fan on the cpu are making sooo much noise ;-)
[17:49:22] <jdhnc> romney looks ok for now. We'll see how far he goes when he has to start pandring to the bible crowd later one.
[17:49:30] <jdhnc> <urk>
[17:50:34] <alex4nder> ReadError: http://www.andern.org/alexander/images/taig/taig_in_concrete.jpg
[17:53:11] <IchGuckLive> nice water basin but flooding water for that mashine size ? marble cutter ?
[17:55:10] <IchGuckLive> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLC_Ldv59Uk
[17:55:28] <jdhnc> is that like stucco'ed wood or solid or what?
[17:56:01] <IchGuckLive> the basin ? jdhnc
[17:56:06] <alex4nder> it's solid
[17:56:23] <alex4nder> 180 lbs
[17:56:27] <IchGuckLive> alex4nder: is this yours
[17:56:31] <alex4nder> yup
[17:56:58] <jdhnc> for rigidity? why not just some sort of plastic/laminate/etc?
[17:57:03] <IchGuckLive> what material needs this water
[17:57:45] <alex4nder> jdhnc: I got tired of the plastic tub it was in vibrating, and I wanted something I could bolt the mill to that would be waterproof
[17:59:04] <alex4nder> and I've always wanted to try casting concrete
[17:59:10] <alex4nder> so this basin was born
[18:00:28] <jdhnc> just sand? or other aggregate?
[18:00:53] <alex4nder> 3/4" pebble and down
[18:02:21] <IchGuckLive> no jocke i made a concread coulor test today
[18:02:25] <IchGuckLive> http://mechmo.de/stein_styropor.jpg
[18:02:49] <alex4nder> nice
[18:02:57] <alex4nder> what was your concrete receipe?
[18:03:13] <IchGuckLive> the part is foam with 1mm layer color concreat
[18:03:46] <IchGuckLive> the color is RGB 170,95,75
[18:04:31] <alex4nder> ah
[18:04:34] <alex4nder> cool
[18:04:43] <IchGuckLive> silica sand and cement
[18:04:46] <alex4nder> how did you apply it?
[18:05:15] <IchGuckLive> this holds on to foam itself
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[18:06:09] <IchGuckLive> tile adhesive gives a nice structure 2
[18:06:26] <IchGuckLive> let me find a foto 1min
[18:08:04] <DJ9DJ> mööp, time is over ;D
[18:08:57] <alex4nder> hah
[18:09:56] <IchGuckLive> http://mechmo.de/stein_styro_test.jpg alex4nder
[18:10:23] <alex4nder> ah cool
[18:10:41] <IchGuckLive> this is with tile adhesive
[18:11:50] <IchGuckLive> there you can bring a structure in with a brush the concreate is not good for this
[18:12:28] <IchGuckLive> but for diving into it concrete is best to make 25 of this fast
[18:13:40] <IchGuckLive> bucket with top cover 1 turn and your are done ! B)
[18:14:35] <IchGuckLive> with a dowl and a screw you can then try it
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[18:15:41] <IchGuckLive> ok by for me have a nice day wherever you are in the world
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[18:28:46] <micges> logger[mah]: hi
[18:28:46] <logger[mah]> micges: Log stored at http://linuxcnc.mah.priv.at/irc/%23linuxcnc/2012-04-16.html
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[18:34:33] <fliebel> Reading a bit about gcode, what does it mean to have just x and y words on their own line, without a G1?
[18:37:35] <micges> it means that 'execute last typed command G0|G1|G2|G3 with these XY coordinates'
[18:38:36] <ReadError> alex4nder: looks nice!
[18:38:40] <ReadError> how did you make the mold?
[18:38:41] <ReadError> foam?
[18:40:34] <alex4nder> yup
[18:40:54] <ReadError> called and had them change my nuts
[18:41:25] <alex4nder> yah, it's bad form to have a problem with your nuts
[18:43:04] <jdhnc> 106 nicks on this channel and no females?
[18:43:59] <alex4nder> sausage fest
[18:44:06] <Tom_itx> they're all hiding from you
[18:44:49] <jdhnc> be nice or I'll get one of the ones with a restraining order against you to /join
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[19:43:54] <Optic> hey, I'm looking for a good 2D cam (for laser cutter) that plays well with emc2
[19:44:05] <Optic> doesn't have to be free, but I don't have a huge budget either :)
[19:47:51] <jthornton> I use something cam with my plasma but I forget the name argggg
[19:48:01] <archivist> sheetcam possibly?
[19:48:09] <jthornton> yea, thanks
[19:48:46] <jdhnc> cut2d for windows is easy
[19:48:54] <Optic> sheetcam and cut2d, cool :)
[19:49:21] <jdhnc> cambam maybe
[19:49:24] <Optic> i tried sheetcam a while back and couldn't get it to work due to some weird directx problem. maybe better now :)
[19:49:46] <fliebel> So, gcode remembers the command across lines, but are the other parameters remembered as well?
[19:50:10] <jdhnc> fliebel: look on the mdi tab and see the modal commands
[19:50:40] <jthornton> fliebel, you could read this for most of the answers http://linuxcnc.org/docview/html/gcode/overview.html
[19:50:58] <fliebel> jthornton: cool, thanks.
[19:51:32] <jthornton> that's my job LOL
[19:51:58] <Optic> i'll evaulate all of those :)
[19:52:03] <Optic> evaluate
[19:53:03] <jthornton> does dxf2cam work?
[19:53:28] <Optic> no
[19:53:34] <Optic> neither does dxf2gcode really
[19:53:50] <jthornton> ok, I tried them a while back but forgot if they worked or not
[19:53:51] <Optic> they haven't gotten into the corners of the dxf spec :)
[19:53:57] <jdhnc> autocad + realize
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[19:54:00] <Optic> if your file is at all complex they will fail
[19:56:25] <archivist> dxf is a moving target with all the version changes
[19:56:56] <andypugh> There is a Linux version of SheetCAM, and Les is active on the LinuxCNC list. I think that makes it a winner
[19:57:46] <Optic> oooh that is good
[19:58:11] * archivist spots a static andypugh
[19:58:23] <archivist> is the ground still moving?
[19:58:28] <Jymmm> jthornton: You do any work with automated product packaging by chance?
[19:58:56] <andypugh> No, I spent 2 weeks in San Francisco after the race finished, so have my Landlubber legs back.
[20:00:07] <archivist> having floated on canals and rivers I know the feeling when getting back on land :)
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[20:00:21] <jthornton> Jymmm, yes
[20:00:42] <rob_h> archivist, we are going Mach show on wednesday dont know what your plans are
[20:00:42] <Jymmm> andypugh: I'm not sure if it was the same race, but 1 or 2 days ago 4 ppl feel over the side of a racing yacht and died.
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[20:01:44] <archivist> rob_h, trying to get a bit of work done before I go, may make wed or whenever :)
[20:02:06] <andypugh> Not on our race, no. 4 were hurt, but they all stayed on board and will get better.
[20:02:18] <rob_h> very much the same here lo.. but got loads need to look at there too
[20:02:20] <Optic> hey sheetcam opened my dxf with no complaints
[20:02:33] <Jymmm> andypugh: Ah, ok
[20:03:36] <andypugh> Very much the same place and time though. However our boats are 68' long and can handle pretty much anything.
[20:03:48] <archivist> rob_h, yup its a chance one should not miss, lots to learn just looking at things
[20:05:00] <fliebel> Ok, I get modal commands now, but I'm still not sure about the scope of a word. If I say X200, will it stay 200 forever, untill I change it?
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[20:06:25] <fliebel> Does it stay the same as long as a model command is in effect? Don't get it.
[20:07:49] <andypugh> fliebel: Yes
[20:07:57] <DJ9DJ> gn8
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[20:08:17] <andypugh> In fact, it will stay 200 until you issue another X command.
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[20:08:40] <andypugh> (Thing of X as a command, not a variable)
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[20:10:27] <fliebel> andypugh: That is what I thought, but... 92 sets the home to the current position, or x, y and z specified.
[20:11:08] <andypugh> Yes, though it won't cause motion.
[20:11:17] <fliebel> which would work out alright in absolute mode, but give unexpected result in relative mode.
[20:12:14] <fliebel> Well, I'm on the right path, it seems. thanks
[20:12:27] <andypugh> So, G0 X200 will move X to the current 200. Then G92 X0 will set the current X position to 0, and a second G0 X0 will move the axis a further 200.
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[20:17:33] <Optic> i wonder how the linux sheetcam compares to the windows one
[20:17:40] <Optic> because the windows one works fine :)
[20:17:58] <ThadiusB> any links to a good site to buy cheap end mills for just starting out?
[20:18:27] <ThadiusB> ie....if it breaks i'm not gonna lose out to bad
[20:18:32] <jthornton> Optic, I've never used the windows one but I did write a post for EMC
[20:18:33] <andypugh> ThadiusB: http://www.ctctools.biz/servlet/StoreFront
[20:19:39] <ThadiusB> ty
[20:19:57] <Optic> woot!
[20:21:23] <alex4nder> ThadiusB: LMS has an HSS assortment 
[20:21:39] <ThadiusB> LMS?
[20:22:08] <Optic> looks like the linux sheetcam is free
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[20:51:07] <archivist> jthornton, second pdf on the mailing list makes me wonder about manufacturability
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[20:58:13] <jthornton> archivist, I can't even open it
[20:59:02] <MattyMatt> hey, andypugh, how was the pacific?
[20:59:20] <MattyMatt> welcome back to lubberdom
[21:00:21] <archivist> jthornton, he does seem to have issues http://www.archivist.info/cnc/Screenshot.png
[21:01:56] <andypugh> MattyMatt: Grey, cold, wet...
[21:02:48] <jthornton> archivist, if I'm looking at this correctly there are some square inside corners!
[21:02:52] <jthornton> is that what you see?
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[21:03:14] <archivist> yes :)
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[21:04:09] <archivist> suppose its an edm or are you sure you want that
[21:04:15] <andypugh> The hexagons look expensive
[21:04:41] <andypugh> Three sides and two radii would work equally well and could be milled.
[21:04:44] <jthornton> depends on the corner radius I guess
[21:04:57] <andypugh> (I mean three radii, clearly)
[21:05:00] <archivist> external rounded form from solid not easy nect to bosses
[21:05:02] <jthornton> yea
[21:05:19] <archivist> next
[21:05:47] <jthornton> yea, the outside rounded can be done with a radius cutter if it is a stock size
[21:06:10] <andypugh> The roundover doesn't look two difficult, but I would put a large tolerance on the radius so they can choose a tool they have.
[21:06:24] <jthornton> yea, I don't see any tolerances
[21:06:44] <jthornton> I wish I could view the alibre file
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[21:07:12] <Jymmm> Can linuxcnc act like a plc?
[21:07:25] <archivist> the round bosses overlap the rounded outer needs fixing to use a standard tool
[21:07:45] <jthornton> Jymmm, linuxcnc has a plc yes
[21:08:00] <archivist> Jymmm, how long have you lurked here...classic ladder
[21:09:03] <Jymmm> ok, cool.
[21:09:11] <alex4nder> ThadiusB: little machine shop
[21:10:05] <archivist> jthornton, no material spec either
[21:10:34] <archivist> jthornton, I did wonder if its a casting
[21:10:36] <jthornton> he said pvc sheet in the first post
[21:11:12] <archivist> er no edm then...melt the form
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[21:16:19] <rob_h> making something nice there john?
[21:18:33] <JT-Shop> hi rob
[21:18:46] <rob_h> need a Rotary Broach for them hexagons :)
[21:18:55] <djdelorie> or a six sided drill bit
[21:20:14] <alex4nder> what about a six demon bag?
[21:20:26] <archivist> could use those nuts that get vibrated(ultrasonic) into plastic
[21:21:23] <raynerd> You know in the Spindle Configuration section of emc - what exactly is the spindle rate value... what is "spindle rate" ?
[21:21:30] <rob_h> make a mould tool put it on my moulder ;)
[21:23:36] <archivist> raynerd, http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/examples/spindle.html
[21:25:45] <raynerd> just to clarify, I understand the words..."spindle rate" - I just don`t quite understand its contect here. I`ve tried reading that....basically, some chap in Mach3 has done what I`m trying to do and in Mach3 they have to enter a "base frequency" for the pwm control...I`m trying to work out the equivelent in emc
[21:27:49] <raynerd> I have tried that link archivist - the .hal file for the cnc machine setup someone has kindly sent me, give the line " setp pwmgen.0.pwm-freq 40.0" I can`t even find what this relates to!
[21:28:19] <raynerd> I think this could possibly be equivelent to the "base frequency" mentioned in Mach3.
[21:29:24] <archivist> probably but that link sets it to the frequency of the base-thread by the look of it
[21:30:01] <archivist> example fail if it can also do arbitary freq too
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[21:32:16] <archivist> raynerd, see http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man9/hostmot2.9.html#pwmgen
[21:38:03] <raynerd> thankyou...I`m still pulling my hair out.
[21:40:26] <raynerd> ahhh...it is the base frequency in hertz
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[22:08:55] <Nick001-Shop> On a lathe tool table, is there a way of setting 2 tools on the same tool # setting - like a drill and boring tool holder on the same turret tool face
[22:09:31] <andypugh> This is a familiar question. If only I could remember the answer.
[22:10:42] <andypugh> I think the answer is to use offsets 1, 11, 21 etc for different tools in the same turret position, and have the toolchanger code work modulo 10.
[22:12:15] <JT-Shop> wasn't there some discussion on the forum on this
[22:12:33] <Nick001-Shop> modulo 10???
[22:13:06] <andypugh> Well, modulo whatever suits you. something binary might be easier.
[22:13:48] <Nick001-Shop> what is modulo 10 mean
[22:14:31] <Nick001-Shop> is - does
[22:16:00] <Loetmichel> Nick001: modulo is the "rest" after division with a integer
[22:16:08] <andypugh> 11 mod 10 = 1, 22 mod 10 = 2
[22:16:15] <Loetmichel> right
[22:16:15] <elmo40> at work we use T01## for tool 1 offset ##. How does linuxcnc do it?
[22:17:17] <JT-Shop> doesn't rob_h use gang tooling on his lathes??
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[22:18:11] <rob_h> some times on CHNC with square turret
[22:18:25] <rob_h> i wish i had a gang tooled lathe tho
[22:18:52] <JT-Shop> how do you handle the offsets?
[22:18:55] <archivist> are you remembering this from the other day http://imagebin.org/207345
[22:19:02] <Loetmichel> rob_h: retrofit?
[22:19:13] <JT-Shop> archivist: missed that one
[22:19:38] <archivist> I rather like the idea
[22:19:52] <rob_h> Loetmichel, used to do it on old contorl. its now EMC yea but still getting finished
[22:20:32] <Loetmichel> btw: anyone has a 3phase ac motor to spare that would fit instead of this old beast? -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=11411
[22:20:36] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=11414
[22:20:41] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=11417
[22:21:07] <Loetmichel> so i can bring my "big" lathe to work after about 2 yeas sittin on the bench?
[22:21:33] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.instructables.com/id/Wooden-Remote-Control-Quadrocopter-Build/
[22:21:36] <Loetmichel> this one: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=11462
[22:21:50] <Loetmichel> r00t4rd3d: old...
[22:22:10] <r00t4rd3d> The wood? I imagine.
[22:22:19] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=5174
[22:22:24] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=5177
[22:22:37] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=5071
[22:22:51] <r00t4rd3d> is that wood?
[22:22:54] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=5168
[22:23:02] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=5171
[22:23:05] <Loetmichel> :-)
[22:23:21] <Loetmichel> buildt that in 2008 ;)
[22:23:32] <Loetmichel> plane plywood
[22:23:34] <r00t4rd3d> are those leds in ping pong balls?
[22:23:39] <Loetmichel> correct
[22:23:59] <Loetmichel> i.e: the leds are in the outriggers
[22:24:06] <r00t4rd3d> wouldnt it be quadcopter plywood?
[22:24:15] <Loetmichel> the pinpongballs are just illiminated by them
[22:24:23] <r00t4rd3d> oh
[22:25:20] <Loetmichel> even made one in balsa (reinforced with glass fibre) ;-) -> http://www.cyrom.org/MC/loebabofertig.avi
[22:25:30] <r00t4rd3d> what controller do you have on that?
[22:25:44] <Loetmichel> www.mikrokopter.de
[22:26:56] <Loetmichel> about 11 watts in LED onboard...
[22:27:04] <Loetmichel> its like a fucking firefly ;-)
[22:27:17] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.ebay.com/itm/190644759648?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649
[22:27:31] <r00t4rd3d> If I can swing it, Friday I am going to order that.
[22:27:36] <Nick001-Shop> found out how - call M6 T2 G43 and do some work then call M6 T22 G43 and it will change to the new offset values in the tool table. T22 won't index to t2 if your at t6. You have to call t2 first to get it to index to t2 first and then it seems to change to the new value in t22 when called. I'll have to try some real time work to make sure it works out.
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[22:29:07] <Loetmichel> r00t4rd3d: my newest project is a hexa
[22:29:20] <r00t4rd3d> see these?
[22:29:20] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.hoverthings.com/accessories/flight-controllers/quadrino-zoom-rev3.html
[22:29:29] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12997
[22:30:18] <Loetmichel> no, i only use the ones from mikrokopter.de
[22:31:00] <r00t4rd3d> you crash that and its all over
[22:31:12] <Loetmichel> hmm?
[22:31:22] <Loetmichel> i crashed SO many times....
[22:31:30] <r00t4rd3d> legs are just so long if it flops its going to go over hard
[22:31:33] <JT-Shop> andypugh: have you got your land lubber legs yet or are you still swaying with the waves?
[22:31:49] <Loetmichel> and especially this electronics came to me from a friend who had chrased an octo
[22:32:25] <Loetmichel> i was able to resurrect the Flightcontrol, the navcontrol and 6 ESCs/motors
[22:32:35] <Loetmichel> so i am building him a hexa
[22:32:42] <r00t4rd3d> is that aluminum frame?
[22:32:52] <r00t4rd3d> or painted wood
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[22:33:28] <Loetmichel> thats how the electronics looked when i got them: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=11486
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[22:33:31] <r00t4rd3d> i think its aluminum but im high
[22:33:51] <Loetmichel> aluminium square tube, 15mm*15mm*1mm
[22:34:45] <r00t4rd3d> did you cut the triangles in it?
[22:35:18] <Loetmichel> yes
[22:35:33] <Loetmichel> and bent the landing gear also
[22:35:35] <andypugh> Nick001: You probably need to alter the toolchanger code so that T22 indexes to the T2 position.
[22:35:55] <r00t4rd3d> make me one
[22:36:09] <Loetmichel> i am too expensive ;-)
[22:36:19] <r00t4rd3d> good cause I meant for free
[22:36:34] <Loetmichel> do i look that silly?
[22:36:35] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[22:36:39] <andypugh> Nick001: It would be better if "slot number" and "tool number" could be properly separated, but "slot number" means something else inside EMC2 at the moment, and so any change there will have to wait for a structure change. I think that some of the work mhaberler is doing will make it easier.
[22:37:06] <r00t4rd3d> my quadcopter project has been sidelined by the cnc router project
[22:37:27] <Loetmichel> i am also builing a CNC router for a co-worker ;-)
[22:37:29] <r00t4rd3d> i can make a quadcopter frame with a cnc router
[22:37:44] <r00t4rd3d> maybe
[22:38:02] <Loetmichel> btw: this is how it looks when my QC flies at night: http://www.cyrom.org/MC/nachtflugtest_.avi
[22:38:36] <andypugh> Toys! I want: http://www.hover-bike.com/
[22:39:37] <andypugh> (And at 160kg payload, I reckon even JT could have one :-)
[22:40:31] * JT-Shop goes to see what 160kg is
[22:41:00] <Jymmm> 350 lbs
[22:41:07] <Jymmm> 353
[22:41:11] <Loetmichel> that looks like FUN!
[22:41:17] <JT-Shop> yea, I could carry a couple of stones of beer with me
[22:41:22] <Loetmichel> would like to have one ;-)
[22:41:40] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Keggers-to-go!
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[22:42:19] <andypugh> He sounds like he needs help from embedded-C coders..
[22:43:02] <Jymmm> s/embedded-C coders/andypugh/
[22:43:21] <Jymmm> ;)
[22:43:59] <andypugh> Yeah, I would like to be involved, but don't know what else to give up. Sleep maybe?
[22:44:22] <Nick001-Shop> What does the H word do in a tool change line? Can't seem to find it in the literature
[22:44:40] <JT-Shop> it is there I assure you
[22:44:41] <skunkworks__> hmm - is that real? how would you be able to control it with just 2 blades?
[22:44:54] <skunkworks__> I don't see any lateral control
[22:45:02] <JT-Shop> vanes on bottom
[22:45:20] <andypugh> It lets you apply the offsets from a different tool to the current one. So T1 M6 G43 H2 would apply the offsets from tool2 while loading tool 1
[22:45:50] <skunkworks__> seems like the center of gravity would be too high...
[22:45:51] <JT-Shop> aww, I was going to link the manual page
[22:46:16] <Loetmichel> skunkworks__: like a bike: leaning in
[22:46:25] <Nick001-Shop> ok - thanks
[22:46:28] <andypugh> skunkworks__: No worse than a low-wing aircraft. And they are not well known for plummeting from the sky
[22:46:46] <skunkworks__> heh
[22:47:03] <Loetmichel> andypugh: a low wing plane has alierons
[22:47:19] <andypugh> Aye, and that has roll-control vanes.
[22:47:25] <Loetmichel> "querruder"
[22:47:31] <Loetmichel> it has?
[22:47:39] <Loetmichel> didnt see
[22:47:56] <Loetmichel> but leaning would also be enough
[22:49:14] <andypugh> You can see them more clearly on the scale model: http://www.hover-bike.com/videos.html
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[22:52:02] <andypugh> I really would like to see video of it getting off the ground.
[22:58:21] <andypugh> JT, when you finish the ballista: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rVd1clYCi4&feature=related
[22:58:25] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/doctors-pakistan-fight-save-six-legged-baby-boy-article-1.1062472
[22:58:34] <r00t4rd3d> 6 leg kid
[22:58:39] <r00t4rd3d> :/
[23:00:02] <andypugh> Hmm, not really a "genetic condition", more siamese triplets. Anyone's guess how his internal organs are laid out.
[23:00:10] <JT-Shop> Andy, I was thinking of a steam powered bike with the boiler in the sidecar
[23:00:35] <JT-Shop> that doesn't look too logical
[23:01:37] <JT-Shop> now this looks logical http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=vGGlODF7_RY
[23:01:48] <andypugh> Nah, monowheels have a long and proud history of idiocy
[23:01:56] <JT-Shop> LOL
[23:02:07] <JT-Shop> but it has training wheels on the back
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[23:29:01] <andypugh> <ponder> MarcusBec is always here, and warns us when he is away. But I can't recall him saying anything . Not that there is anything wrong with lurkery.
[23:30:02] <r00t4rd3d> this is my bike, its an older picture, looks alittle more cooler currently:
[23:30:02] <r00t4rd3d> http://i.imgur.com/l9XzB.jpg
[23:30:31] <andypugh> How very Edwardian.
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[23:31:40] <JT-Shop> I recall him saying something once
[23:32:07] <r00t4rd3d> Ill go take a new picture :D
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[23:33:36] <Tom_itx> it still won't become a gold wing
[23:33:55] <andypugh> Why am I so attracted to non-sparking tools? http://www.cromwell.co.uk/static/publication/1187/pages/1020.pdf
[23:34:44] <andypugh> (They would be great on a boat, I suppose)
[23:35:30] <Tom_itx> holy crap
[23:35:33] <Tom_itx> andypugh is back
[23:36:00] <djdelorie> pfred1: I'm not vague, I just don't have a plan
[23:36:39] <pfred1> djdelorie me either. that is why I was hoping I could borrow yours
[23:37:13] <djdelorie> the closest thing to a plan I have is "keep poking at it". I got some useful PID advice at a local club meeting yesterday, my X axis needs some TLC in pid-land
[23:37:40] <djdelorie> and I was given a brushed DC motor with encoder to see if I could get the board to drive it
[23:37:45] <pfred1> I thought you were all sorted out
[23:37:55] <Jymmm> djdelorie: I that anything like a whore house?
[23:38:09] <Jymmm> s/I/Id/
[23:38:12] <Jymmm> bah
[23:38:15] <Jymmm> s/I/Is/
[23:38:26] <djdelorie> Jymmm: I have no idea what you're talking about
[23:38:40] <pfred1> Jymmm got the buddha bud at the dispensory today or what?
[23:38:50] <djdelorie> pfred1: the motors buzz when they should be idle, I haven't been able to get them to "stop" properly
[23:38:59] <Jymmm> djdelorie: "...my X axis needs some TLC in pid-land" Is that anything like a whore house?
[23:39:17] <djdelorie> Jymmm: not at all, it's a software problem
[23:39:21] <pfred1> djdelorie I've heard of servos doing that
[23:39:34] <Jymmm> djdelorie: CNC-Viagra?
[23:39:48] <andypugh> djdelorie: That night be normal, but a bit of deadband would make it go away. However, that might not be really what you want.
[23:39:51] <r00t4rd3d> My bike as it sits today:
[23:39:52] <r00t4rd3d> http://i.imgur.com/3zT8J.jpg
[23:39:59] <djdelorie> yeah, they usually do, but they're not supposed to be as bad as what mind do. I never claimed to be a PID expert.
[23:40:11] <r00t4rd3d> Thats a multicolored chain also, not a rainbow chain!
[23:40:13] <Jymmm> djdelorie: No tuning tool for that?
[23:40:23] <pfred1> you're doing what it takes to become a PID expert
[23:40:47] <djdelorie> andypugh: apprently, my code is even less "right" than I thought, despite working good enough for my cnc needs.
[23:40:48] <andypugh> r00t4rd3d: Don't take this personally, but you have too much time on your hands.
[23:41:02] <djdelorie> Jymmm: You have to know what you're tuning before the tool is useful
[23:41:04] <r00t4rd3d> I work full time
[23:41:20] <r00t4rd3d> I have the winters off though
[23:41:38] <r00t4rd3d> so maybe
[23:41:50] <Jymmm> djdelorie: I mean some type of feedback graph within emc (halscope?) that can show you where things are at
[23:41:51] <djdelorie> I did think of adding some deadband based on the simulated step size, no point holding to one count when you're stepping 20 counts at a time
[23:42:09] <djdelorie> Jymmm: yes, my controllers have that, but you have to know what to look at and what it means
[23:42:15] <KimK> andypugh: I have not yet had the opportunity, so let me be among the last(?) to say, "Welcome back!"
[23:42:41] <r00t4rd3d> this is what i build during the day:
[23:42:41] <r00t4rd3d> http://i.imgur.com/qA02G.jpg
[23:42:42] <Jymmm> djdelorie: I'm sure you're not the first, and that somewhere there has to be some refernce examples to go on.
[23:42:51] <djdelorie> I get graphs like this: http://www.delorie.com/cnc/ff1/ff1-90.html
[23:43:07] <pfred1> Jymmm I think DJ's motor driver might be somewhat unique so he might be the first
[23:43:15] <djdelorie> too many examples, mostly involving calculus
[23:43:21] <Jymmm> pfred1: ah
[23:43:59] <pfred1> djdelorie is your motor driver a servo amplifier even?
[23:44:34] <djdelorie> er, sort of. It has the driver half of an amplifier, but no way to get the dumb drive signal that a normal amp would have as input
[23:44:43] <djdelorie> unless you can send the drive signal over CAN :-)
[23:44:52] <pfred1> that is what i thought it is only sort of
[23:44:53] <djdelorie> I mean the -10..+10 analog signal
[23:45:21] <pfred1> it is still some powerful stuff
[23:45:31] <Jymmm> Hmmm, where's jmk???
[23:45:42] <r00t4rd3d> i sold him
[23:45:57] <r00t4rd3d> for a cheeseburger
[23:46:10] <djdelorie> Too powerful sometimes. I was demoing it yesterday, and each time I hit the "stop" button it would go CLUNK when it stopped. They thought it was hitting something, but it was just the motors stopping with 100% force
[23:46:33] <pfred1> you might need decelleration
[23:46:50] <Jymmm> wouldn't FERROR catch soemthign like that?
[23:47:08] <djdelorie> I measured the actual acc/dec curves and put those in hal, but the problem is the wooden machine can't handle that kind of stopping without some sort of noise.
[23:47:16] <pfred1> well with linuxcnc you can set the acceleration
[23:47:17] <djdelorie> so yeah, probably should slow it down a little :-)
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[23:47:59] <pfred1> it isn't so much slow it down as it is let is speed up and slow down a little slower
[23:48:00] <andypugh> djdelorie: PID without calculus: http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/component/kunena/?func=view&catid=10&id=14483#14487
[23:48:13] <r00t4rd3d> My controller has a "Decay Mode" setting, Fast, 25%, 50%, Slow. Whats that about?
[23:48:35] <pfred1> is it called velocity in linuxcnc?
[23:48:55] <djdelorie> andypugh: I know what PID is and how it works in theory, it's applying it to a BLDC server drive that's the tricky part: http://www.delorie.com/electronics/bldc/
[23:49:06] <djdelorie> servo drive
[23:49:20] <Jymmm> djdelorie: You need something like this (see right side) http://vri-cnc.ru/img/TurboCNC4_pic/9_TurboCNC4_CfgAxs_Z.jpg
[23:49:36] <pfred1> andypugh yeah have you checked out djdelorie's motor drives?
[23:49:55] <pfred1> andypugh 300 volts!
[23:50:14] <djdelorie> what I was told yesterday is I need to tune the current, rpm, and position loops separately
[23:50:24] <djdelorie> 450 volts if you're brave
[23:50:34] <andypugh> Nice! That driver chip looks interesting. I have played around with the IRAMS chips, is that any tougher?
[23:50:50] <djdelorie> well, the one in my test bed has released the magic smoke twice... and still works
[23:50:55] <pfred1> andypugh I thought you'd get a lick out of them
[23:50:59] <pfred1> kick even
[23:51:27] <djdelorie> and with only 60v drive on a 160v motor was still able to drive the carriage into the end hard enough to bow some 3/8-16 all-thread about 4" off-center
[23:51:32] <pfred1> djdelorie show andypugh a video of the beast running
[23:51:42] <andypugh> It seems to do a lot on the board that EMC2 can do in software. Not that that is a bad thing, necessarily.
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[23:52:25] <djdelorie> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SR1y6Eq19EU but skip to the middle, I started slow
[23:52:36] <andypugh> (EMC + a Mesa card can produce the high and low side driver PWMs for that sort of device)
[23:52:50] <Jymmm> djdelorie: http://igor.chudov.com/manuals/Servo-Tuning/PID-without-a-PhD.pdf
[23:52:54] <andypugh> Oops, s/EMC/LinuxCNC
[23:52:55] <djdelorie> andypugh: I didn't realize how much linuxcnc could do on its own when I developed it. OTOH, my pc only has the one dumb parallel port
[23:53:24] <djdelorie> my controller turns a BLDC motor into a simple stepper, everyone knows how to control a stepper...
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[23:54:03] <andypugh> In theory the bldc component could be modified to produce three-phase PWM signals on the Parport, but it seems such a desperate tactic that I haven't coded it yet :-)
[23:54:25] <djdelorie> andypugh: my pwm runs at 80 MHz, six phase synchronous...
[23:54:37] <andypugh> Yeah, that would challenge a parport :-)
[23:55:00] <djdelorie> plus the current ADCs are synchronized to the PWM waveform so I can measure all the phases in every loop
[23:55:36] <djdelorie> with real-time current limiting and over-temperature checking
[23:55:47] <djdelorie> I got here just after you went on vacation :-)
[23:55:50] <pfred1> djdelorie your machine is what 1/2 x 13 all thread leadscrews?
[23:56:30] <djdelorie> it's all surplus. X is 10 TPI acme, Y is 2 TPI, Z is 3/8-16 all-thread
[23:56:45] <djdelorie> 1/2" sounds right though
[23:56:49] <pfred1> well even Z was moving pretty good
[23:57:32] <djdelorie> I limit Z's IPS because the whole carriage wobbles if I move it too fast. However, there was a makerbot at the meeting yesterday, and my machine travels faster than it does, so I should be able to put an extruder on it
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[23:58:03] <pfred1> your machine looks fast to me
[23:58:30] <andypugh> That's a pretty quick machine. You could use G82(?) the drilling canned cycle to rapid to just short of the surface before moving to drilling speed.
[23:59:34] <djdelorie> well, Z can do about 2.5 IPS but at that speed you have to wait for it to stop rocking before you can drill. It needs the longer cycle just to make sure it's settled before it hits.
[23:59:41] <djdelorie> I have two broken drill bits that back that up :-)
[23:59:58] <djdelorie> http://www.delorie.com/photos/cnc/drilltest-cnc-015.html