#linuxcnc | Logs for 2012-04-03

[00:04:37] -!- pfred1 [pfred1!~pfred1@unaffiliated/pfred1] has joined #linuxcnc
[00:17:11] -!- micges has quit [Quit: Leaving]
[00:41:54] -!- factor [factor!~factor@] has joined #linuxcnc
[00:44:02] -!- FinboySlick [FinboySlick!~shark@squal.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[01:31:30] -!- sumpfralle has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
[01:35:20] <Jymmm> I need to "glue" two 2mm diameter rods together end-to-end. One of the rods is only 0.5cm long and will have striking force applied to it. Any suggestions as to what "glue" to use?
[01:37:11] <Tom_itx> you didn't specify the material
[01:37:41] <Jymmm> nylon and carbide
[01:40:11] -!- Valen [Valen!~Valen@2001:44b8:3199:9100:21e:8cff:fe63:55df] has joined #linuxcnc
[01:40:14] <Tom_itx> what sort of striking force
[01:40:40] <Jymmm> ice pick
[01:40:55] <Tom_itx> nylon handle?
[01:41:04] <Jymmm> nylon rod
[01:41:27] <Jymmm> ice ick type of force
[01:41:30] <pfred1> krazy glue
[01:41:39] <djdelorie> trying to scale the mightly ice cube?
[01:41:44] <Jymmm> ice pick type of force, so what's tha,t 30-40 ft lbs?
[01:41:57] <pfred1> djdelorie hey DJ
[01:42:01] <djdelorie> hi
[01:42:15] <Tom_itx> limited what you can glue nylon or carbide with successfully
[01:42:22] <Jymmm> pfred1: I think it be too brittle
[01:42:27] <Tom_itx> let alone the combination of them
[01:42:43] <pfred1> Jymmm you neen krazy glue's latest commercial where the guy bungee jumps with a coupling glued together?
[01:42:48] <Tom_itx> not many 'glues' will adhere to nylon
[01:43:14] <Jymmm> pfred1: Well, that's easy, lots of surface area.
[01:43:22] <pfred1> Tom_itx kind of like the if teflon is so slippery how to they make it stick riddle?
[01:43:37] <djdelorie> teflon primer
[01:43:37] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Well, it could be expoxy, liquid nails, whatever
[01:43:48] <pfred1> djdelorie I heard they sand blast the pans
[01:44:08] <Tom_itx> pfred1 some adhersions are done with a charge applied to them
[01:44:24] <Tom_itx> to better the chemical bond
[01:44:31] <pfred1> Jymmm I've been having some bad luck with epoxies lately
[01:44:49] <Jymmm> pfred1: even jb weld?
[01:44:52] <djdelorie> Jymmm: silicone ?
[01:44:53] <pfred1> I hate those new twin injector tubes
[01:45:00] <Tom_itx> i would suggest the 'pink' epoxy used in aircraft bonding
[01:45:08] <pfred1> Jymmm JG weld still comes in the nice lead squeeze tubes
[01:45:08] <Jymmm> djdelorie: RTV? I'd think would break under force.
[01:45:17] <pfred1> JB even
[01:45:26] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: aircraft or medical is what I'm thining
[01:45:34] <pfred1> and JB weld does work great stuff is expensive though
[01:45:38] <Jymmm> but I'm not familure with either
[01:45:40] <djdelorie> very little sticks to nylon though, silicone is one of them. Or hot glue. Or melt the nylon onto the carbide
[01:45:52] <djdelorie> JB weld is just epoxy with metal filings in it
[01:45:57] * pfred1 lives close to Nylon City
[01:45:59] <Tom_itx> the 'pink' epoxy bonds like you wouldn't believe
[01:46:12] <pfred1> which is pretty much a ghost town since DuPont pulled out
[01:46:13] <Tom_itx> but i'm not entirely sure about it's bond to nylon
[01:46:41] <Jymmm> djdelorie: Hmmmm, I could melt, I have enough thermal stuff around here (Only 180,000 feet on NiChrome left though)
[01:47:12] <Jymmm> s/on/of/
[01:47:36] <pfred1> if it was me I'd thread the nylon and tap the rod
[01:47:39] <djdelorie> If you could turn a spike on the end of the carbide, heat the nylon, and press it over the spike... ?
[01:47:51] <pfred1> oh carbide forget tapping it
[01:47:57] <djdelorie> or a barb, like for plastic water pipe
[01:48:12] <Tom_itx> nylon isn't gonna stand up to 'striking force'
[01:48:26] <Jymmm> I could just heat the nylon and JAB the carbide into it,
[01:48:32] <djdelorie> if the nylon is just pushing the carbide to do the strike...
[01:48:59] <Tom_itx> and the carbide is very likely to shatter with 'striking force'
[01:49:21] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: This isn't air hammer forc,e it's ice pick type force.
[01:49:26] <Tom_itx> poor choice of materials imo
[01:49:29] <djdelorie> google for "glue nylon". I think most adhesives will stick to carbide if it's scored or scratched first
[01:49:33] <pfred1> Tom_itx by mistake once i cut through a thick steel bracket with a crabide tipped circular saw
[01:49:49] <pfred1> Tom_itx you'd be surprised how well the blade held up i know I was
[01:49:59] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: sometimes you dont have a CHOICE of materials
[01:50:08] <Tom_itx> it will cut but it will also shatter
[01:50:14] <djdelorie> heh. I cut through an aluminum fence with a carbide saw blade. Left a mirror finish on the aluminum. Did that to a nail once too, same results.
[01:50:51] <pfred1> djdelorie I've been hearing to cut aluminum good with a circular saw run the saw blade backwards it doesn't grab as much
[01:51:31] <pfred1> carbide doesn't care about its rake so much
[01:51:33] <djdelorie> this was a high-end plywood blade. Many teeth, very sharp. I didn't even *notice* it going through the aluminum at first
[01:51:52] <Jymmm> pfred1: I've cut aluminum angle with my table saw , leaves a GREAT finish, the onyl thing is the flying chips - THEY GET EVERYWHERE!!!! haird, shoes, underwear, EVERYWHERE!!!
[01:52:06] <pfred1> yeah the chips are hot if they hit you too
[01:52:17] <pfred1> I've cut half inch plate on my table saw
[01:52:27] <pfred1> it is nasty but it does it
[01:52:29] <Jymmm> not hot like chopsaw or granider hot
[01:52:55] <Jymmm> nothign a blade shield wouldn't resolve
[01:53:08] <pfred1> just wear long sleeves
[01:53:17] <Jymmm> so who STILL has the blade shiled on their table saw still?
[01:53:17] <Valen> I'd be worried about ripping the carbide tips off running it backwards
[01:53:35] <pfred1> Valen yeah it could happen
[01:53:49] <djdelorie> I had a similar problem cleaning my lathe gears. Used a brass wire wheel in a dremel; as the wires came out they impaled my shirt. Learned to use the dremel left-handed after that
[01:53:59] <Tom_itx> certainly all the cutting angles are wrong doing that too
[01:54:23] <pfred1> djdelorie run a cup brush on an angle grinder nothing like picking the wires out of your face after that
[01:54:24] <Valen> wire wheels are nasty as a rule
[01:54:28] <Jymmm> djdelorie: first problem, using dremel tooling.
[01:54:42] <Valen> why do dremels all suck so hard?
[01:54:51] <djdelorie> I was cleaning out between the teeth, anything bigger wouldn't fit. I have a bench grinder wheel for the rest of the metal
[01:54:58] <pfred1> the trick with wire wheels is use them at half their rated speed
[01:55:04] -!- sumpfralle [sumpfralle!~lars@31-16-21-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #linuxcnc
[01:55:06] <Jymmm> OH, what glue do thet use to attach stuff to manderels?
[01:55:22] <djdelorie> pressure, probably.
[01:55:22] -!- sumpfralle has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
[01:55:23] <pfred1> but to get really good high speed wire wheels yo uare going to pay for them
[01:55:28] <Tom_itx> mandrel glue
[01:55:43] * Jymmm smacks Tom_itx with silly putty!
[01:55:43] <djdelorie> yup. The cheap chinese wheels fell apart quickly, the dremel brand ones lasted longer
[01:56:01] <pfred1> djdelorie well the speed rating is how you judge the overall quality of a wheel
[01:56:18] <djdelorie> the rating on the chinese ones was "yes" :-P
[01:56:33] <pfred1> on my bench grinder now I buy the 6800 RPM ones and they hold up way better than the 3600 RPM rated ones
[01:57:01] <Valen> for cleaning between gears I would just use a wire brush and do it by hand, it'd only take a minute
[01:57:07] * djdelorie wonders if shellac will stick to nylon...
[01:57:13] -!- sumpfralle [sumpfralle!~lars@31-16-21-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #linuxcnc
[01:57:17] -!- sumpfralle has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
[01:57:22] <pfred1> shellac is the wonder finish
[01:57:24] <Jymmm> djdelorie: for two minutes at least
[01:57:39] <djdelorie> my wire brush was too big too. The dremel wheel was *exactly* the right size, worked perfectly. Until it wore out.
[01:59:10] * djdelorie wonders if he has some nylon to test that with...
[01:59:31] -!- sumpfralle [sumpfralle!~lars@31-16-21-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #linuxcnc
[01:59:43] <pfred1> they reformulated nylon so it'd fail in pantyhose
[01:59:59] <djdelorie> hmm... grass trimmer string?
[02:00:01] <pfred1> the original formulation was too good
[02:00:28] <Tom_itx> kevlar
[02:00:50] <pfred1> yeah lets hope they didn't reformulate that because it stops too many bullets
[02:00:50] -!- sumpfralle has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
[02:01:24] <pfred1> the original bulletproof vests were made out of silk
[02:01:53] <pfred1> as far as fibers go I think there is still some spider web better than anything man made
[02:02:04] <djdelorie> carbon nanotubes ?
[02:02:27] * djdelorie goes off looking for nylon...
[02:02:28] <pfred1> I hear a lot about the stuff but where is it?
[02:02:36] -!- sumpfralle [sumpfralle!~lars@31-16-21-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #linuxcnc
[02:02:41] <Valen> spiderweb is better in many respects
[02:02:44] <djdelorie> still too hard to make long enough chains to make useful cable lengths
[02:02:48] <Valen> mainly its energy absorbtion
[02:02:55] <pfred1> yeah spiders still have us beat
[02:02:59] <Valen> actually they have made some rather long nanotubes
[02:03:06] <pfred1> they just crap the stuff out
[02:03:14] <Valen> they will be stronger than spider silk, but not as energy absorbing
[02:03:38] <Valen> its tensile strength, vs elongation to fail
[02:03:40] <pfred1> I got some sicked spiders here
[02:03:44] <pfred1> wicked even
[02:04:35] <pfred1> get a load of this evil looking one http://i.imgur.com/c7e13.jpg
[02:04:35] -!- sumpfralle has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
[02:04:46] <pfred1> you can see the gleam in its eye
[02:04:52] <Valen> lol
[02:05:03] <Valen> pfred1: where are you again?
[02:05:15] <pfred1> Valen it was right under my computer stand I heard it hit when it landed
[02:05:26] <djdelorie> found the string trimmer reel, doesn't say "nylon" on it
[02:05:31] <pfred1> Valen southern Delaware
[02:05:36] <Valen> ahh
[02:05:44] <pfred1> djdelorie nylon is some expensive stuff
[02:05:47] <Valen> <- australian, we have real spiders
[02:06:06] <jdhnc> if it will kill you, australia has it?
[02:06:12] <pfred1> Valen by my pool once i swear to god this thing went by and I'd say it was a tarantula
[02:06:20] <Valen> some of the birds are ok jdhnc ;->
[02:06:38] <Valen> though they still take a piece out of you lol
[02:06:47] <pfred1> I figured it was someone's pet that escaped because I'm pretty sure tarantulas aren't native to where I am at
[02:07:03] <pfred1> it was the size of my hand and furry though
[02:07:11] -!- demacus [demacus!~demacus@erft-4d07f25d.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[02:07:28] <pfred1> I had a spider sting me it was under my deck handrail
[02:07:36] <pfred1> my hand blew up for like a week
[02:08:08] -!- capricorn_1 [capricorn_1!~raffi@zima.linwin.com] has joined #linuxcnc
[02:09:36] <pfred1> I call these spiders zipperheads because they make this zipper looking pattern in their webs http://i.imgur.com/11r4k.jpg
[02:10:09] -!- demacus_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
[02:13:05] <pfred1> I ordered the PSU for my new junky PC last night
[02:13:24] <pfred1> I'm stoked to try running LinuxCNC on it
[02:14:12] <jdhnc> my last junky pc sucked for linuxcnc. I spent $150 on an intel atom board, mem, case/ps.
[02:14:29] <Valen> http://vimeo.com/17517733 #australia ;->
[02:14:43] <pfred1> jdhnc the atoms do seem to work well
[02:14:48] <Tom_itx> yup
[02:14:49] <djdelorie> I'm running an old dual-P3 800MHz. I get an RTAI error every time I start it, but it works fine anyway (and yes, I've run the latency test)
[02:15:25] <jdhnc> the $150 was worth it, if only for getting a tiny box.
[02:15:32] <pfred1> djdelorie I have a single 1 GHz P3 I am using now for LinuxCNC
[02:15:36] <Tom_itx> i like the box i got
[02:15:51] <Tom_itx> like 45 with psu iirc
[02:16:02] <djdelorie> the only problem with that box, is that the usb ports don't work, so I had to run an ethernet cable to it to copy gcode files to it
[02:16:19] <jdhnc> mine was 50ish from amazon
[02:16:23] <pfred1> jdhnc I looked at the atom systems but $150 only seems to buy a bare bones to me needs storage and some other stuff
[02:16:37] <Tom_itx> newegg here
[02:16:43] <Valen> they should be ~$100
[02:16:52] <Valen> or less
[02:16:54] <pfred1> Tom_itx newegg is getting kind of pricy
[02:16:58] <jdhnc> pfred1: I have spare disks. The $150 was board/mem/case.
[02:17:22] <djdelorie> newegg has a refub 2.6GHz for $95, 512MB 40GB, keyboard+mouse
[02:17:25] <jdhnc> p-port and one pci slot
[02:17:35] -!- FinboySlick has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
[02:17:38] <Tom_itx> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811154091
[02:17:41] <Tom_itx> it went up a bit
[02:17:47] <Tom_itx> but it's nice n small
[02:18:18] <pfred1> djdelorie check out what i just bagged for a buck http://www.pacificgeek.com/product.asp?c=220&s=1519&ID=847245&P=F
[02:18:49] <pfred1> I went to a sale at a senior center and it was sitting on a dollar table
[02:18:58] <djdelorie> you suck! ;-)
[02:19:08] <pfred1> well it had some issues
[02:19:16] <jdhnc> I had a $100 amazon gift card I'd never used so I went with amazon
[02:19:17] <pfred1> like this is what i think happened
[02:19:27] <pfred1> first they broke the vga connector on the motherboard
[02:19:28] <djdelorie> I probably should dig through my pile-o-crap and put together a better PC
[02:19:40] <pfred1> then they figured it was something else so they put in a new PSU
[02:19:47] <pfred1> but they put in the wrong PSU
[02:19:58] <pfred1> then they gave up
[02:20:41] <pfred1> but after I sorted all of that out it ran like a champ
[02:21:32] <pfred1> they had a PSU in it with a 20 pin mobo connector and i tried a good PSU here with just the 20 pinner in there and it didn't run
[02:21:45] <pfred1> you need to hook up the other 4 pins
[02:22:30] <pfred1> it was weird because the PSU I pulled out of it had run in something enough to collect dust and blow up itself
[02:22:47] -!- sumpfralle [sumpfralle!~lars@31-16-21-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #linuxcnc
[02:22:59] <pfred1> I have to admit that threw me for a bit
[02:23:21] <pfred1> I was like how could this have ever worked?
[02:24:10] <pfred1> I should email the guy who owned the machine before me I have all his data on the HDD :)
[02:25:29] <Valen> heh
[02:25:52] <pfred1> I have to admit it is the most boring machine I've ever browsed
[02:26:20] <pfred1> I do know all about the senior center's finances now though
[02:26:31] <Tom_itx> i pulled the chip off a mb once to find the plastic still on the heatsink and the barcode on the bottom of the chip was burned
[02:26:47] <Tom_itx> cpu
[02:26:59] <pfred1> Tom_itx I got a junk system once and when they replaced the mobo they left the conductive foam under it
[02:27:02] <djdelorie> my mom cooked a pizza that way.
[02:27:03] <djdelorie> once
[02:27:23] <pfred1> Tom_itx before i pulled the board out yo ureally couldn't see it either
[02:27:24] <Tom_itx> it was given to me free because they couldn't figure out why it kept overheating
[02:27:27] <djdelorie> left the cardboard under it
[02:27:31] <pfred1> I mean they did a really neat job of getting it in there
[02:27:53] <Tom_itx> the chip was still good believe it or not
[02:28:08] <pfred1> Tom_itx the sad fact is about 90% of people who use computers shouldn't
[02:28:16] -!- seb_kuzminsky [seb_kuzminsky!~seb@184-96-167-189.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[02:28:45] <pfred1> djdelorie that has happened to me sometimes it just freezes there I've done one worse though
[02:28:46] <djdelorie> "I know what your problem is. Do you have the original box? Yes? Good. Send the computer back, you're too dumb to own one."
[02:29:11] <pfred1> djdelorie you know them rolls of pastries with the frosted topping?
[02:29:21] <djdelorie> sticky buns?
[02:29:35] <pfred1> djdelorie there is a metal disk in there and i left it attached to one of the things when I baked it I almost broke a tooth on that
[02:29:40] <djdelorie> crap, now I want sticky buns...
[02:30:10] <pfred1> cinnamon swirls
[02:30:14] <pfred1> that is what it is
[02:30:18] <djdelorie> same thing
[02:30:31] <pfred1> man that disk got me I've done the pizza one too
[02:30:42] <pfred1> but I think when I did it there were two disks
[02:31:07] <pfred1> so I'm chalking that one up to a manufacturing defect
[02:31:12] <djdelorie> two cupcake cups. Remove the cup, eat, still get paper in your mouth
[02:32:34] <pfred1> where has cradek been lately?
[02:34:11] <cradek> most recently, working my ass off for all you folks
[02:34:22] <pfred1> cradek hey there you are
[02:34:28] <djdelorie> er, thank you?
[02:34:40] <cradek> :-)
[02:37:54] -!- phantoxe has quit []
[02:39:13] <djdelorie> hmmm... what kind of latency/performance do I need to output 100,000 step pulses per second?
[02:39:55] <cradek> you need at least a 10 microsecond base thread, which is pretty darn fast
[02:39:56] <pfred1> a nanosecond is a billionth of a second so
[02:40:14] <djdelorie> can the parallel port even go that fast?
[02:40:20] <cradek> sure
[02:40:40] <cradek> or it's trivially easy with an external step generator
[02:41:15] <pfred1> djdelorie for real performance you have to go with the mesa boards
[02:41:22] <pfred1> they waste parallel ports
[02:41:23] <cradek> if you need 100k pulses/sec, best approaches are to fix it to require fewer (often microstep settings) or use a step generator
[02:41:29] <djdelorie> pondering the reasons why my machine isn't running at its fastest speeds. Might need to reduce the microsteps for now
[02:41:49] <djdelorie> I can set my drivers to anything from 4 to 4000 steps per rotation :-)
[02:42:09] <djdelorie> it's at 2000 now, which is pretty smooth, but limited to about 1-2 in/sec on X
[02:42:09] -!- sumpfralle has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
[02:42:18] <pfred1> djdelorie I'm still waiting for a webpage about those drivers
[02:42:29] <djdelorie> http://www.delorie.com/electronics/bldc/
[02:42:48] <XXPCWXX> 4 steps /turn might be a bit lumpy
[02:42:49] <cradek> 800 would be a common resolution for a good stepper setup
[02:42:52] <djdelorie> OTOH my screw drives start to vibrate if they turn too fast.
[02:43:06] <pfred1> what pitch thread?
[02:43:59] <pfred1> I'm using 10 TPI acme and now i know why people use multistart or ball screws
[02:44:02] <djdelorie> X is 10 TPI with 31:24 gearing, Y is 2 with 16:24, and Z is 16 with 16:24.
[02:44:16] <pfred1> yeah with 10 TPI I mean there is an upper limit
[02:44:49] <pfred1> evne with the best end anchoring what can you run 2,500 RPM?
[02:44:50] <djdelorie> 5 in/sec in theory, for my motors, assuming I can step them up to 3000 RPM
[02:45:13] <pfred1> yup that is beyond what 1/2 x 10 TPI can really run
[02:45:59] <djdelorie> X and Y are acme with anti-backlash nuts.
[02:46:09] <djdelorie> at least, they're not all-thread like Z is
[02:46:10] <pfred1> even at 800 RPM it is kind of spooky to me
[02:46:52] <djdelorie> scary is Y - in theory it can go 25 in/sec, but it's only 26 inches range of motion...
[02:46:54] <pfred1> better to geaqr down and run a looser pitch
[02:47:09] <djdelorie> We used what we had, it's all surplus.
[02:47:19] <pfred1> today belt drive seems where it is at for ultimate speed
[02:47:39] <pfred1> I calculated my moves a step and it is just silly
[02:47:47] -!- sumpfralle [sumpfralle!~lars@31-16-21-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #linuxcnc
[02:47:51] <pfred1> something like 0.000023 a step
[02:48:06] <pfred1> as in if i opened my garage door my machine would expand more
[02:48:19] <pfred1> so the resolution isn't really needed
[02:48:23] <djdelorie> I've contemplated cable/pulley systems with separate encoders, don't know if it makes sense.
[02:48:51] <pfred1> glass scales are popular
[02:49:03] <djdelorie> hmmm... X is 32.3 microinches per step, at max microstepping
[02:49:19] <djdelorie> ok, maybe I should cut back on the X microstepping :-)
[02:49:32] <cradek> is this the wood machine?
[02:49:36] <djdelorie> yeah
[02:49:48] -!- sumpfralle has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
[02:49:49] <pfred1> I'm limited by my PC what microstepping I can use i can't get the step pulses
[02:50:05] <cradek> set them all to .0005" or so per step?
[02:50:19] <pfred1> but even in 8th mode the numbers just get silly
[02:50:21] <cradek> many machines made of cast iron to cut metal had .001" steps
[02:51:20] <djdelorie> so 200 steps, speed up 31:24, 10tpi ? Even 400 steps is five times faster than what I've got now.
[02:51:41] <pfred1> cradek when I worked in a tool and die shop we never expected bladed cutters to exceed 0.003 accuracy when we needed stuff tighter than that we ground it
[02:51:53] -!- sumpfralle [sumpfralle!~lars@31-16-21-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #linuxcnc
[02:52:15] <pfred1> yeah you can hit better than 0.003 on a mill but can you hit it every time?
[02:52:27] <pfred1> because when you're a pro there is no once is good enough
[02:52:29] <cradek> only with care and constant checking
[02:53:05] <djdelorie> no point in micron stepping if you have a mm of play in the carriage :-)
[02:53:23] <pfred1> yeah our machines had some age on them
[02:53:45] <djdelorie> my big lathe is 90 years old, it has less play than my brand new cnc machine...
[02:54:35] <pfred1> we had a CNC 1 but didn't do much with it
[02:54:48] <pfred1> eddie did one operation on it I can't even remember what it is now
[02:55:30] -!- sumpfralle1 [sumpfralle1!~lars@31-16-21-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #linuxcnc
[02:55:31] -!- sumpfralle has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
[02:55:43] <pfred1> they tried to develop a CNC grinder but they couldn't grasp the tech
[02:56:07] -!- sumpfralle1 has quit [Client Quit]
[02:56:08] <pfred1> this was back in the early 90s
[02:56:10] * djdelorie wants to put a Z axis on his lathe, so he can use it as a mill too...
[02:56:33] -!- sumpfralle [sumpfralle!~lars@31-16-21-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #linuxcnc
[02:57:05] <pfred1> djdelorie andy has a setup like that
[02:57:17] <djdelorie> I've read of lots of people with one
[02:57:24] <djdelorie> MAKES ME WANT IT MORE! ;-)
[02:57:30] <pfred1> well andy is uaually a regular here
[02:57:38] <pfred1> usually even
[02:57:50] <pfred1> he's been traveling a lot lately
[02:58:08] <pfred1> last i heard he went sailing?
[02:58:20] <djdelorie> yup, he's nanometers away from here
[02:58:49] <pfred1> but andy does crazy stuff with his lathe
[02:59:07] <pfred1> he can really showcase what LinuxCNC can do
[02:59:14] -!- koax has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
[03:02:23] -!- sumpfralle has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
[03:02:46] <pfred1> before I bought a PSU for my new junky PC I was reading up all about switching supplies now I want to make one
[03:02:59] <djdelorie> not worth the effort, they're dirt cheap
[03:03:11] <djdelorie> http://www.delorie.com/electronics/bldc/transformer/
[03:03:20] <pfred1> djdelorie where is the fun in buying one?
[03:03:34] <pfred1> I just bought one in fact
[03:03:46] <pfred1> it wasn't the same as soldering
[03:04:04] <djdelorie> didn't say it wouldn't be fun. Get the March 2011 issue of Nuts & Volts, there's a circuit in the Q&A section.
[03:04:27] <djdelorie> Mine works, but not as well as I expected, and it buzzes a lot, probably because of the hand-wound transformer.
[03:04:37] <pfred1> what I really need to learn how to do is to test them
[03:04:45] <pfred1> you know like for ripple and stuff
[03:05:25] <djdelorie> just put a scope on the outputs
[03:05:30] <pfred1> that was why I went with a linear supply with my project initially because i was having so many noise issues
[03:05:49] <pfred1> I figured one more PWM in the mix wouldn't be doing me any favors
[03:06:05] <djdelorie> I went linear for the same reason, ended up with the *same* noise problems. Turns out the motor PWM was killing it, not the PSU
[03:06:15] <pfred1> oh I know
[03:06:30] <pfred1> when I madem y first stepper driver it worked great so I made another one
[03:06:31] <djdelorie> bought a couple big ferrites for the motor wires and power supply leads, made a big difference
[03:06:35] <pfred1> ran the two together, not so great
[03:06:56] <djdelorie> hey, if we don't push the envelope, who will?
[03:06:59] <pfred1> what i did was optically isolate the control signals
[03:07:12] <pfred1> that works like a charm
[03:07:42] <djdelorie> in my case, the big problem was the usb port, but that's only used when you're configuring and testing it
[03:08:24] <djdelorie> hmmm, anyone here put ferrites on the parallel port wires? I mean, after they leave the cable?
[03:08:50] <pfred1> I made a break out board
[03:09:05] <djdelorie> me too
[03:09:23] <pfred1> just to boost up my ma I had for switching
[03:09:57] <djdelorie> I did it because I didn't know where the wires had to go yet, at that point. Bottom middle of http://www.delorie.com/photos/cnc/img_2600.html - the yellow thing
[03:10:39] <djdelorie> parallel port to 25-pin header to solderless breadboard to three CAT5 to three RJ45
[03:11:56] <pfred1> this is my BOB http://www.instructables.com/id/Parallel-Port-Break-Out-Board-BOB/
[03:13:10] <pfred1> it has a strange problem where if it isn't powered somehow power backfeeds out of the parallel port and makes my power LEDs glow a little
[03:13:35] <pfred1> doesn't seem to hurt anything so I haven't really investigated it too closely
[03:13:42] <djdelorie> I considered isolation on my boards, but there were so many connectors that would need it. I decided I could isolate at the parallel port instead, if needed.
[03:14:06] <pfred1> this isn't any isolation it is more for current amplification
[03:14:25] <pfred1> I looked and looked there really is no spec for what a parallel port can put out
[03:14:33] <djdelorie> I have that on my boards as part of the logic level translation, not that it needs it
[03:14:40] <djdelorie> it's TTL, probably 20 mA
[03:14:42] <pfred1> it seems you can't expect more than 3 ma out of one
[03:14:50] <djdelorie> that's not much
[03:15:01] <pfred1> well they vary but they can be that bad
[03:15:17] <pfred1> I did a lot of looking and reading
[03:15:40] <pfred1> the original IBM PC had a spec but since then not so much
[03:16:39] <pfred1> my board draws like 0.006 ma to trigger it then cna supply 25 ma
[03:16:39] <djdelorie> I put in a 74HCT2G125 to buffer the parallel port signals; it accepts anything down to 2V as "high" and turns it into 0-5V. Let me put a pretty strong pull-down on the parallel port lines to counter EMI.
[03:16:54] <pfred1> I used 245a
[03:17:00] <pfred1> 245s
[03:17:07] <djdelorie> it's the HCT part that's significant
[03:17:16] <pfred1> yeah AHCT as I can recall
[03:18:05] <djdelorie> most ICs have body diodes to protect their pins; they'll feed current from the pin to VCC if VCC isn't powered.
[03:18:49] <pfred1> for my power LED backfeed?
[03:18:53] <djdelorie> yup
[03:18:57] <pfred1> it doesn't seem to hurt anything
[03:19:15] <djdelorie> I have a board that keeps running as long as the serial cable is plugged in. It's being powered by the RXD line
[03:19:21] <pfred1> but when it happened i have to say I was surprised
[03:20:02] <pfred1> peole say I should isolate my grounds because of ground loops but that doesn't seem practical for me to do I never bothered
[03:21:09] <pfred1> in my whole system ground is ground
[03:21:59] <djdelorie> if you think about it, the ground loop is a big antenna, picking up noise.
[03:22:54] <pfred1> I might have to revisit my plan but so far so good
[03:23:35] <pfred1> one of my goals is keeping it as simple as I can
[03:25:03] <djdelorie> right, *that* never works...
[03:25:19] <pfred1> djdelorie is that a PC oscilloscope app on your laptop in this picture? http://www.delorie.com/photos/cnc/img_2600.jpg
[03:25:24] <djdelorie> yes
[03:25:31] <pfred1> nice
[03:25:51] <pfred1> I think LinuxCNC should include something likt that for when people setup their machines
[03:25:58] <djdelorie> the beige box in the middle is the scope, it also uses a parallel port. My current desktop has no parallel port, so that laptop is dedicated to the scope. It's a 200 MHz and runs dos...
[03:26:19] <pfred1> I just saw a really simple amp on the instructable site
[03:26:24] <pfred1> was a couple of op amps
[03:26:45] <djdelorie> when debugging my controller, it turned out I got better scope traces if I sucked the data out of the MCU on the board, than actually hooked up the scope...
[03:27:00] <pfred1> so often when people are having problems i want to tell them to hook a scope up to see what is going on
[03:27:10] <djdelorie> the analog circuits on the controller are designed to avoid picking up EMI, my scope traces are not...
[03:27:21] <djdelorie> er, scope *leads*
[03:27:48] <pfred1> yeah real scope leads it is scary what they can run
[03:28:16] <djdelorie> mine are not in the runs-to-scary range, so they pick up lots of EMI
[03:29:09] <pfred1> is that xoscope?
[03:29:35] <djdelorie> it's a velleman PCS64i, running their software
[03:30:04] <pfred1> http://www.instructables.com/id/Simple-PC-oscilliscope/
[03:30:09] <djdelorie> I'm trying to get QtDSO working with a usb adapter of my own design, so I don't need a parallel port.
[03:30:56] <pfred1> LinuxCNC won't do USB port for philosophical technical reasons :)
[03:31:15] <djdelorie> actually, real technical reasons.
[03:31:17] <pfred1> lots do ask for it though
[03:31:28] <djdelorie> most of my PCs don't have parallel ports any more...
[03:31:33] <pfred1> remember there is real then there is real enough
[03:31:58] <pfred1> oh I bought a pport card I wasn't going to hook any of my dumb circuits up to a PC
[03:32:02] <djdelorie> well, if you want to limit yourself to 1000 steps/sec, it *might* be doable.
[03:32:14] <djdelorie> a better track to take is CAN support
[03:32:22] <Jymmm> http://www.dealextreme.com/p/dso1060-5-7-lcd-60mhz-2-channel-handheld-scopemeter-oscilloscope-with-usb-host-device-35971
[03:32:23] <pfred1> the rosewill I think it is is a really nice one
[03:32:53] <pfred1> Jymmm I have a 2336 tek
[03:33:05] <Jymmm> pfred1: you gonna send it to me?
[03:33:08] <pfred1> it isn't exactly hand held though :)
[03:33:35] <pfred1> what makes mine sexy is it has the Y option
[03:34:02] <pfred1> doubles the instrument's value
[03:34:50] <pfred1> Jymmm yeah man if you get a scope get a tek they are nicer
[03:35:12] <djdelorie> I have an ancient tek scope with the slide-in cartridges, so I can do X-Y
[03:35:22] <pfred1> a 465?
[03:35:37] <pfred1> they are beasts!
[03:35:53] <djdelorie> I don't recall, it's put away for now. Yeah, heavy, all steel, vacuum tubes...
[03:35:54] <Jymmm> pfred1: Will never happen. I havne't had a scope thus far, so if I get one it's gonna be one of those chinese ones.
[03:36:01] <pfred1> I made a transistor charistic curve tracer once that did the X-Y thing
[03:36:23] <djdelorie> Jymmm: just get any MCU with some ADC and a device usb port, it's all you need. Oh, and some hacking. And software. And a case. And...
[03:36:30] <ssi> I wonder if my tds420 does x/y
[03:37:06] <Jymmm> djdelorie: Or just an led and blink really fast to change "settings".
[03:38:20] <Jymmm> I need to dispense some bulk lithium grease into some small containers. any thoughts?
[03:38:29] <djdelorie> go for it
[03:38:58] <Jymmm> irrigation syringe?
[03:38:58] <djdelorie> get a piping tip from a bakery supply store or wal-mart, use a plastic bag, put the tip in the corner.
[03:39:04] -!- pfred1 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
[03:39:29] <Jymmm> djdelorie: I need small tip and actually a 3" tube on the end
[03:40:10] <Jymmm> I guess i could glue a tub on to the tip
[03:40:14] <Jymmm> tube
[03:40:55] <Tom_itx> they make 'point' type grease guns
[03:40:58] <Jymmm> I was hoping for a slightly better way than pastry bag, as that is what I'm using now.
[03:41:00] <Tom_itx> hand held
[03:41:11] <djdelorie> http://www.google.com/images?q=irrigation+syringe
[03:41:13] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: This is BULK, from 5 gallon bucket.
[03:41:23] * Tom_itx gives Jymmm a pastry chef's hat
[03:41:35] <djdelorie> grease gun? Put a grease nipple on a tube, stick it on the gun
[03:41:37] <Jymmm> djdelorie: Yes, I know. but they still need to be FILLED somehow.
[03:41:48] <djdelorie> pneumatic guns feed from buckets
[03:42:01] <Jymmm> djdelorie: link?
[03:42:04] <Tom_itx> we dispensed 55 gal oil drums thru a 2 1/2" pipe using air pressure to force it out
[03:42:11] <Tom_itx> cutting oil
[03:42:23] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: grease, not oil. oil would be easy.
[03:42:40] <Tom_itx> and why can't you pressurize lithium grease?
[03:43:05] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: you have the gear you're gonna lend me to do all this?
[03:43:18] -!- ries has quit [Quit: ries]
[03:43:29] <Tom_itx> i'll let you draw up a plan and think about it a couple weeks first
[03:44:03] -!- pfred1 [pfred1!~pfred1@unaffiliated/pfred1] has joined #linuxcnc
[03:44:18] -!- phillc54 [phillc54!~chatzilla@oztime.lnk.telstra.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[03:44:35] * pfred1 is afraid it doesn't look good for andypugh http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2012-04-02/yacht-race-rescue/53959574/1
[03:45:06] <pfred1> didn't he say he was going in a yacht race?
[03:45:24] <djdelorie> http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200323348_200323348 ?
[03:46:18] <Jymmm> djdelorie: Hmmmm
[03:46:32] <pfred1> I have a little pneumatic grease gun it doesn't work too swift
[03:46:40] <Tom_itx> Jymmm, use a cylinder with a check valve to dispense a known amount
[03:47:02] <Tom_itx> if you don't like the pressure idea
[03:47:21] <Tom_itx> http://www.fishmancorp.com/
[03:47:50] <pfred1> Tom_itx heh
[03:48:02] <Tom_itx> :)
[03:48:03] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: they dont do grease
[03:48:19] <pfred1> Jymmm that is what they all say
[03:48:22] <Tom_itx> http://www.pumpsdirectinc.com/
[03:49:55] <Tom_itx> http://www.dispenseworks.com/
[03:50:01] <Tom_itx> that one should work
[03:50:02] <Jymmm> I'm thining something more along the lines of a JUMBO calking gun
[03:51:06] <Tom_itx> after all this is linuxcnc
[03:51:08] <Tom_itx> make one
[03:51:42] <Tom_itx> cookie dough dispenser
[03:51:53] <djdelorie> a giant stepper motor, squishing the drum, grease squirts out the tube...
[03:51:55] <Jymmm> Yeah, 6" ABS pipe + 4" pipe as the plunger,
[03:51:55] <pfred1> Tom_itx pastry bag?
[03:52:05] <Jymmm> 10 foot long
[03:52:10] <Tom_itx> pfred1, no
[03:52:13] <Tom_itx> more like a cylinder
[03:52:20] <djdelorie> giant play-doh extruder?
[03:52:21] <Tom_itx> with a screw on the end
[03:52:39] <Jymmm> or a jumbp caking gun
[03:52:44] <Tom_itx> there's at least a dozen different ways you could do it
[03:52:45] <Jymmm> calking
[03:53:25] <djdelorie> square box with a ram driven by one or more drive screws; make the box so one of the long sides is removable to refill it
[03:53:33] <Tom_itx> but you suggested dispensing from a bucket
[03:53:47] <pfred1> Jymmm http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwCPhHezc-o
[03:53:58] <Tom_itx> so i suggested pressurizing the bucket a bit and stuff a hose in the grease with a shutoff on the end
[03:53:59] <Jymmm> I never said DISPENSE form bucket, I said from BULK
[03:54:18] <Tom_itx> well define BULK
[03:54:31] <Tom_itx> 55 gal drum?
[03:54:33] <Jymmm> 5 gallon bucket
[03:54:36] <Tom_itx> 5 gal bucket
[03:54:39] <Tom_itx> see..
[03:54:43] * Tom_itx smacks Jymmm
[03:55:07] <djdelorie> make a 6x6x30 box out of aluminum. Make one of the 6x30 sides removable, hose fitting on one 6x6 end, the other 6x6 end is the ram...
[03:55:10] -!- phillc54 has quit [Quit: ChatZilla [Firefox 11.0/20120312181643]]
[03:55:44] <Tom_itx> you will use either A) pressure or B) suction
[03:55:50] <pfred1> when I used to commercial flat roof we had these crazy pumps for pumping roofing emulsion out of drums
[03:56:02] <pfred1> they were basically like jack hammers
[03:56:12] <djdelorie> my wife works for a company that supplies pumps that can move peanut butter...
[03:56:12] <Tom_itx> or concrete pumps
[03:56:31] <pfred1> Tom_itx I've done that too and it is a lot different
[03:56:33] <Jymmm> djdelorie: Can she get samples?
[03:56:38] -!- ve7it has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[03:56:41] <djdelorie> of the pump, or the peanut butter?
[03:56:45] <pfred1> concrete pumps are screws or pistons
[03:56:57] <pfred1> we've seen the parts come up teh hose ;)
[03:56:59] <Tom_itx> pfred1, i'm just suggesting you can pump just about anything
[03:57:03] <djdelorie> I think the PB pumps were double-diaphram type
[03:57:36] <pfred1> Tom_itx a concrete pump truck is over a million dollar bill going down the road
[03:57:47] <Tom_itx> likely so
[03:57:51] <pfred1> oh it is
[03:57:59] <Tom_itx> and it pays for itself too
[03:58:16] <pfred1> I've been on pours that were racking up over $32,000 a second
[03:58:36] <pfred1> you never seen people sweat so bad
[03:59:00] <Tom_itx> there's not much pump time with that medium
[03:59:32] <Tom_itx> get the slump right and send it down the tube quick
[04:02:09] <pfred1> my favorite pump has to be the wave solder machine at the place where i made PCBs there is just something about molten metal being pumped that fascinates me
[04:02:36] <Jymmm> I wonder if there's a plunger type dispenser for 5 gallon buckets. Kinda like the worlds largest caulking gun lid attachment?
[04:02:56] <pfred1> there are paint sprayers
[04:03:22] <pfred1> oh i know what you mean like at the condiment bar
[04:03:48] <djdelorie> take apart a regular grease gun, see if you can stick it's working end in the bucket...
[04:04:00] <Jymmm> kinda, yeah. replace the 5gal bucket lid with a plunger type dispenser, and there's a tube tht feeds it thru the top
[04:04:05] <djdelorie> can you warm up the grease to make it runny?
[04:04:17] <pfred1> heh
[04:04:19] <Jymmm> not really
[04:04:19] <djdelorie> make sure the bucket is the same size at the top as at the bottom?
[04:05:03] <pfred1> plastic items are rarely the same sizes
[04:05:09] <pfred1> makes demolding too hard
[04:05:15] <djdelorie> and stacking them
[04:05:20] <Jymmm> Hmmm, OH SO CLOSE... http://www.toolking.com/plews-55-440-heavy-oil-lever-action-dispenser-pump-with-5-gallon-pail/
[04:05:30] <pfred1> measure the top and bottom of a disposable lighter
[04:05:36] <pfred1> like a Bic
[04:05:52] <pfred1> I did that to someone once and they were like now I can't see it right anymore!
[04:06:12] <djdelorie> how much goes in each container?
[04:06:27] <Jymmm> djdelorie: grams
[04:06:39] <pfred1> talk to the columbians
[04:06:50] <Jymmm> yeah, no sht
[04:06:52] <pfred1> they know how to meter out grams
[04:06:59] <djdelorie> that's a LOT of little containers
[04:07:12] <Jymmm> yep
[04:07:22] <djdelorie> makes it worth the time to build something
[04:07:38] <djdelorie> and the "something" doesn't have to be that big to be cost-effective
[04:08:07] <Jymmm> FUCK ME In china... http://i00.i.aliimg.com/photo/v0/291400672/5_GALLON_GREASE_BUCKET_PUMP_GS_5512C.jpg
[04:08:23] <Jymmm> There's the plunger for 5gal bucket!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[04:09:03] <djdelorie> http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/LINCOLN-Bucket-Pump-6WB32
[04:09:47] <pfred1> my favorite chinese worker http://cache.wists.com/thumbnails/f/c5/fc57e9139edb24eb5f8a433596bfee7f-orig
[04:10:13] <Jymmm> djdelorie: $480?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
[04:10:26] <djdelorie> my screen says $50
[04:11:01] <pfred1> $50.70 for me
[04:11:04] <Jymmm> djdelorie: next one down, that says GREASE
[04:11:21] <pfred1> http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/LEGACY-Grease-Pump-4ZT38?cm_sp=IO-_-IDP-_-RR_VTV70300505&cm_vc=IDPRRZ1
[04:11:35] <pfred1> $63.40
[04:11:58] <Jymmm> http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/LINCOLN-Grease-Pump-6Y859?Pid=search
[04:12:05] <Jymmm> pfred1: that's better =)
[04:12:14] <pfred1> Jymmm for you no problem
[04:12:22] <Jymmm> pfred1: =)
[04:12:38] <pfred1> it costs a lot of money to put the Lincoln name onto stuff
[04:12:50] <pfred1> they do make nice jacks
[04:13:13] <Jymmm> Lincoln is on a penny, I'll pay 1¢ for the name tyvm
[04:13:14] <pfred1> buy Lincoln today and it will outive you
[04:13:44] <pfred1> you and any 10 chinese jacks
[04:14:58] <Jymmm> 0.3 OZ per stroke, I can make that work!
[04:15:06] <pfred1> I hope the chinese stuff I just ordered holds up
[04:15:23] * djdelorie had chinese food for supper... I hope *that* holds up.
[04:15:37] <pfred1> with electronics there really isn't much choice today
[04:15:57] <djdelorie> there's always a choice, it's just more expensive to choose anything else...
[04:16:06] <pfred1> actually there appears to be worse choices than the chinese stuff when it comes to electronics
[04:16:49] <pfred1> don't ever buy anything with teapo capacitors in it!
[04:17:00] <pfred1> those things are garbage
[04:19:09] <djdelorie> And don't ride in anything with a Capissen 38 engine, they fall right out of the sky.
[04:19:30] <pfred1> know the show game of thrones?
[04:19:55] <djdelorie> nope
[04:20:02] <pfred1> oh it is where mel ended up
[04:20:16] <pfred1> I knew the dwarf that is on that show
[04:20:16] <djdelorie> nathan fillian?
[04:20:19] <pfred1> yes
[04:20:23] <djdelorie> cool
[04:20:26] <pfred1> I used to pump his gas
[04:20:35] <djdelorie> "if you know what I mean" ?
[04:20:36] <pfred1> david dinklum
[04:20:59] <pfred1> he'd jump out of his car and hang out on the islands with us
[04:21:22] <pfred1> he had wooden blocks glued to his pedals so he could operate them
[04:23:05] <pfred1> then I started seeing him in movies and stuff and I was like hey I know that guy!
[04:23:48] <pfred1> djdelorie here's one you'll like I used to see Dennis Ritchie around all the time too
[04:24:10] <pfred1> we shopped at the same supermarket
[04:24:44] <djdelorie> The only notable I can claim to have bumped into, aside from all the ones I work with, is Richard Stallman
[04:24:45] <Thetawaves> pardon my lame questions, can somebody explain the details of this
[04:24:45] <Thetawaves> net spindle-cmd <= motion.spindle-speed-out
[04:24:58] <djdelorie> GASP! An on-topic question!
[04:25:03] <Thetawaves> create an edge named spindle-cmd from the component motion with spindle-speed-out control
[04:26:16] <pfred1> Thetawaves looks like a hal thing to me
[04:26:23] <Thetawaves> oh yeah it is
[04:26:33] <pfred1> yeah I never mess with hal
[04:26:54] <pfred1> it has just never come up yet
[04:27:16] <Thetawaves> i am trying to learn how to write spindle speeds to a file
[04:27:25] <pfred1> see now if andy was here he knows about those things
[04:27:53] <Thetawaves> i suspect i have to figure out how to make a userland hal component that i then link to spindle-cmd?
[04:28:36] <pfred1> a lot of folks that haunt the forum don't hang out here http://linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/forum
[04:28:49] <pfred1> and they know their stuff
[04:29:03] <Thetawaves> ahh thanks
[04:29:13] <pfred1> you may have to wait a day
[04:29:36] <pfred1> but I bet someone there will be helpful
[04:30:47] <pfred1> Thetawaves hal has his own section there!
[04:32:08] <Thetawaves> pfred1, i gotta do my own part and read the documentation before i admit defeat
[04:32:15] <Thetawaves> irc is different :P
[04:33:10] <pfred1> a lot of times I'll just ramdomly try stuff hoping something will work
[04:33:40] <pfred1> then after it is hopelessly broken I'll read the instructions
[04:33:59] <Thetawaves> lol
[04:34:10] * pfred1 is just a regular guy ....
[04:36:34] <pfred1> a lot of Linux promotes my behavior too because often documentation if it exists can be less than helpful
[04:37:54] <pfred1> I just got done with some software I got involved with I finally found out from the lead developer that what I was trying to do wasn't even supported anymore
[04:40:11] <Thetawaves> yeah but you aren't afraid of opening up the source and making the modifications you need eh?
[04:40:30] <pfred1> well that was the first thing he asked me
[04:40:37] <pfred1> if I could code
[04:41:01] <pfred1> I can hack slash and port some stuff to build but code?
[04:42:17] * pfred1 is more of a bit jiggler than an architect
[04:42:28] <djdelorie> *I* can code, but that doesn't mean I can find what I'm looking for in someone else's software.
[04:43:09] <pfred1> I've tried to code and the only thing that made any sense to me was assembler the rest is just too abstract for me to grasp
[04:43:28] <pfred1> stuff like C
[04:43:28] <Thetawaves> djdelorie, it does take a long time to get comfortable with somebody else's code
[04:43:45] <pfred1> I'm not comfortable with hello world
[04:44:46] <pfred1> perl looks like that junk my modem used to spit out in a terminal
[04:45:02] <Thetawaves> that's because perl is a write only language.
[04:45:20] * djdelorie likes perl, but I try to make my code read-write
[04:45:28] <pfred1> I don't even see how people figure out where to begin though
[04:45:50] <pfred1> I knew this girl on IRC she could like think in perl
[04:45:54] <djdelorie> the DJGPP source base has one assembly file that starts with a comment that says (summarized) "yes, this is free software, but you probably shouldn't be changing this"
[04:46:06] <pfred1> you'd ask her for a one liner to do so and so and she'd just spit it out
[04:46:14] <djdelorie> Begin at the beginning. Then continue on until you come to the end. Then stop.
[04:47:16] <djdelorie> see if you can figure out this recent example of my perl code: http://www.delorie.com/cnc/pcbdrill2gcode
[04:48:05] <djdelorie> it's my excellon to gcode coverter
[04:48:16] <pfred1> the new thing seems to be python
[04:48:37] <djdelorie> yeah, I've got to learn that one of these days. All the Fedora management stuff is in Python, and I work for Red Hat...
[04:48:57] <pfred1> there is a lot of python in LinuxCNC now
[04:49:14] <pfred1> I see .py files all over the place anymore
[04:49:29] <pfred1> I have one that downloads youtube videos
[04:49:46] <djdelorie> yup. I started hacking face-134.py because it milled slots bigger than the number I typed in. I gave up when I realized that "facing" does not mean what I thought it meant...
[04:50:04] <pfred1> heh
[04:50:41] <pfred1> djdelorie this is facing http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/1415/anvilspark.jpg
[04:50:57] <djdelorie> I like the idea of linuxcnc having scriptable "tools" in the gcode bin, so you can call up a "mill hole" tool, type in a few numbers, hole gets milled.
[04:51:24] <pfred1> djdelorie have you found the picture to gcode thing yet?
[04:51:30] <djdelorie> yeah, realizing that, I then knew why the code always started beyond the edge
[04:51:55] <djdelorie> haven't looked.
[04:52:07] <pfred1> there is a page on linuxcnc of them all let me try to find it
[04:52:42] <djdelorie> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gui_image-to-gcode.html ?
[04:52:54] <pfred1> yes but there is a master page of all the scripts
[04:53:13] <djdelorie> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?action=browse&id=Simple_LinuxCNC_G-Code_Generators&revision=1 ?
[04:53:32] <pfred1> looks like the place
[04:53:47] <djdelorie> that's where I got the facing script
[04:54:07] <pfred1> I think chris is responsible for most of those
[04:54:11] <pfred1> if not all of them
[04:55:19] <djdelorie> not the facing one at least
[04:56:24] <pfred1> now that I'm looking seems like Lawerance Glaister is the culprit
[04:58:06] <Thetawaves> djdelorie> I like the idea of linuxcnc having scriptable "tools" in the gcode bin, so you can call up a "mill hole" tool, type in a few numbers, hole gets milled.
[04:58:15] <Thetawaves> i have been thinking about this a lot
[04:58:28] <Thetawaves> i've heard a couple people day dream about that
[04:58:52] <djdelorie> consider the milling operations in heekscad, for example. Now imagine those right in linuxcnc
[04:59:32] <djdelorie> in woodworking, I need operations like "using a 1/4in router bit, make a recessed hole 0.72in diam and 0.28in deep"
[04:59:32] <pfred1> I wish I had a hole miller for when I made my router clamp
[04:59:50] <pfred1> what a nightmare it was to drill
[04:59:56] <Thetawaves> djdelorie, ssi was wishing for a similar interface for turning
[05:00:46] <djdelorie> for that, you'd need a way to cut out a circle, rather than completely carve it out. With wood, you'd pre-mark where to put screws, do a first pass around the outside, and move out of the way so the user can screw down the flailing piece
[05:01:12] <pfred1> I drilled this hole in phenolic with an adjustable spade bit? http://i.imgur.com/dHlY6.jpg
[05:01:42] <djdelorie> up to now, I've been printing the drawing on paper, gluing it to the wood, and cutting it by hand on a scroll saw
[05:01:51] <pfred1> yup
[05:02:02] <djdelorie> most of the cnc machine parts were made that way
[05:02:58] <pfred1> well my machine is a departure from other designs
[05:03:09] <Thetawaves> why not leave sections connected in the cutout
[05:03:19] <Thetawaves> so you only have to saw a tiny piece by hand
[05:03:48] <Thetawaves> i've been doing that pretty successfully
[05:03:49] <djdelorie> yup, could do that too, assuming there's a convenient place to put such a cutout, and the inside of the cut doesn't need to be precise
[05:04:37] <Thetawaves> ahh yeah
[05:04:49] <pfred1> this is my Z axis sort of http://i.imgur.com/huyEV.jpg
[05:06:36] <pfred1> LinuxCNC in motion http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHPKaHLzXes
[05:07:18] <pfred1> I was in stepconf and just kept jacking up my speed
[05:08:46] <pfred1> all of that is inside this http://i.imgur.com/PHZCW.jpg
[05:12:59] <pfred1> the melamine dream machine aka thriftbot
[05:16:01] <pfred1> I got the idea for my Z axis looking at a commercial machine that had nested square tubes
[05:18:15] <pfred1> this is an early sketch of the rest of my machine plan but all of it but the most basic layout has changed http://i.imgur.com/lysGP.jpg
[05:20:40] <pfred1> it is a little hard to visualize but I'm going for something more like this today http://i.imgur.com/8Y11S.jpg
[05:23:49] -!- Jim_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
[05:24:02] <djdelorie> skate bearings?
[05:24:11] <pfred1> but of course
[05:24:23] <djdelorie> I've seen other designs that use those
[05:24:29] <djdelorie> clever idea
[05:24:38] <pfred1> yeah that is where i got the idea from the skate bearings on the 45
[05:24:48] <pfred1> cept they put them so close together
[05:25:03] <djdelorie> the ones I saw, though, the bearings captured the rail, rather than the rails capturing the whole carriage
[05:25:09] <pfred1> mine have a bit more mechanical advantage
[05:25:47] <Jymmm> wth is the brown shit?
[05:25:57] <pfred1> Jymmm the other axis
[05:26:10] <Jymmm> what view is that?
[05:26:11] <djdelorie> hence the "hard to visualize" bit...
[05:26:12] <pfred1> well it is actually the old way I was going to do it
[05:26:40] <pfred1> but that just got too complicated
[05:27:24] <Jymmm> I never considered this config... http://www.brusselsprout.org/cnc/Y-bearings.jpg
[05:27:37] <pfred1> when I hit upon the other idea I never fully drew it out
[05:27:37] <Jymmm> bad for the bearings too
[05:28:15] <pfred1> problem with round rails is you need pretty big rails for them to not flex unless they're supported
[05:28:20] <Jymmm> Wait... If they are JUST for alignment, then not so bad.
[05:28:32] <djdelorie> Jymmm: I've seen a Y configuration, but with the two bottom bearings angled in so they're on the flats
[05:28:34] <Jymmm> the top bearing is carrying the load
[05:28:49] <Jymmm> djdelorie: Yeah, 120deg
[05:29:08] <pfred1> I seen the guy who casts the bearing holders
[05:29:19] <djdelorie> the tricky part is making the fixture that holds them, it's a weird angle to be bolting to
[05:29:33] <Jymmm> Ok, so actually, that one isn't so bad, then only side load is of the bolt tightening them.
[05:30:08] <djdelorie> might be easier to do four bearings, you just need two perpendicular flat pieces
[05:30:09] <Jymmm> It's just keeping them on the rod.
[05:30:20] -!- Kirk_Wallace has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
[05:30:23] <Jymmm> djdelorie: fuck that, three works.
[05:30:36] <pfred1> skate bearings are so cheap
[05:30:43] <Jymmm> djdelorie: 4 would be a royal PITA
[05:30:43] <djdelorie> bearings are a lot cheaper than the time it takes to make the funny fixture
[05:30:48] <pfred1> I saw this one knucklehead he made this huge machine in a room
[05:30:58] <Jymmm> djdelorie: It's adjusting them thats a bitch
[05:31:02] <djdelorie> true
[05:31:09] <pfred1> out of what looked like 3/4" galvanized pipe to me
[05:31:49] <pfred1> his bearing trucks if i had to guess must have had 40 bearings in them a piece
[05:32:14] <Jymmm> djdelorie: But this actually makes sense, only the top bearing is taking all the load, the bottom two are just to keep it on the rail. and the only force on them is the bolt moutning them. http://www.brusselsprout.org/cnc/Y-bearings.jpg
[05:33:00] <djdelorie> if you could mount two bearings on top, say 90 degrees apart, and one on the bottom just to keep it "there", you might only have to adjust the bottom one anyway
[05:33:22] <djdelorie> easier to make the mounting fixtures too, it's all right angles
[05:33:46] <Jymmm> djdelorie: Yeah, right.... NOT! Believe me, I've tried
[05:33:56] <djdelorie> which part is the NOT part ?
[05:34:08] <Jymmm> It SOUNDs easy, but it gets complicated fast
[05:34:18] <pfred1> Jymmm I know what you mean
[05:34:31] <Jymmm> djdelorie: Start moutning all those "right angle" together
[05:34:33] -!- mhaberler [mhaberler!~mhaberler@] has joined #linuxcnc
[05:34:33] <djdelorie> isn't that the fun part? ;-)
[05:34:50] <Jymmm> djdelorie: If you're sadistic, sure.
[05:35:02] <pfred1> a 3 legged stool never wobbles
[05:35:05] <djdelorie> masochistic
[05:35:20] <Jymmm> djdelorie: that too
[05:35:48] <djdelorie> had a teacher in high school named Mrs Masek. If you took her class you were a Masekist
[05:37:22] -!- Jim_ [Jim_!~jsr@in-184-1-129-79.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[05:37:55] <Jymmm> heh
[05:39:36] <djdelorie> http://www.delorie.com/cnc/Y90.jpg
[05:40:09] <Jymmm> djdelorie: Yes, been there, done that. It's a PITA
[05:40:34] <pfred1> better to just use plain angle iron stock
[05:40:47] <pfred1> evne if it isn't really 90 degrees
[05:40:52] <djdelorie> there is that
[05:40:55] <Jymmm> pfred1: not even that, the pic I linked to is actually a good idea
[05:41:10] <djdelorie> I still think in terms of wood. There's no angle maple stock.
[05:41:19] <pfred1> I saw someone who put together a bunch of angles to make trucks
[05:41:21] <Jymmm> It's simplistic and effective.
[05:41:27] <Jymmm> KISS
[05:41:48] <pfred1> face it there are reasons THK can charge what they do for their linear products
[05:42:12] <Jymmm> Sure, but if you're thinking skate bearings, that doens't apply.
[05:42:32] <pfred1> people use drawer slides
[05:43:00] <Jymmm> If you just need to go left and right, who cares
[05:43:17] <Jymmm> even drawer slides can be tensioned
[05:43:22] <pfred1> well what else do CNC machines do?
[05:43:30] <Jymmm> stuff
[05:43:34] <Jymmm> and more stuff
[05:43:39] <Jymmm> and other stuff
[05:43:43] <Jymmm> Any Questions?
[05:43:46] <Jymmm> Goo!
[05:43:49] <Jymmm> d
[05:44:19] <djdelorie> cnc machines make more cnc machines...
[05:44:27] <pfred1> I wanted to CNC my mill but it has too much backlash
[05:46:14] <Jymmm> OT.... If I put a dimmer on the primary side of a xfmr, and the secondary goes to a bridge. will that fubar the output?
[05:46:33] <pfred1> dimmers can't handle inductive loads
[05:46:33] <Jymmm> unregulated PS
[05:46:47] <Jymmm> pfred1: They can, just not for very long =)
[05:46:49] <pfred1> well most can't
[05:47:32] <Jymmm> ok, then on the secondary before the bridge?
[05:47:38] <Jymmm> no that wont work
[05:47:40] <KimK> Jymmm: You could use a Variac(tm) there. I can't recall the competing names.
[05:47:52] <djdelorie> or autotransormer
[05:47:55] <pfred1> autotransformer is the generic term
[05:47:56] <djdelorie> autotransformer
[05:48:01] <Jymmm> KimK: Yeah, I'm being cheap. $1 for a dimmer
[05:48:14] <pfred1> $1 is a rheostat
[05:48:19] * djdelorie guesses that's $40/hr in dimmers...
[05:48:36] <Jymmm> djdelorie: It lasts longer than that actually =)
[05:48:41] <pfred1> but rheostats that can actually handle power are pricy
[05:48:59] <Jymmm> less than an amp at 120vac
[05:49:08] <pfred1> for a buck yo ucan get maybe one that can handle a Watt
[05:49:25] <Jymmm> they have 15A dimmers
[05:49:30] <Jymmm> for $1
[05:49:42] <pfred1> yeah but they can't deal with inductive loads
[05:49:43] <djdelorie> rheostat and a triac, good for resistive loads
[05:49:51] <Jymmm> they also have fan speed control for $10
[05:50:03] <Jymmm> ceiing fan
[05:50:07] <pfred1> that would handle inductance
[05:50:19] <djdelorie> why not just put a variable switching regulator after the rectifier?
[05:50:25] <pfred1> well ceiling fans are odd motors I think
[05:50:30] <Jymmm> djdelorie: too complicated
[05:50:57] <djdelorie> use a PWM stepper driver to generate the voltage you need?
[05:51:13] <pfred1> they regulate current
[05:51:29] <Jymmm> Eh, I got a couple of these, http://www.harborfreight.com/router-speed-control-43060.html I'll just plug the xfmr into it
[05:51:35] <KimK> Powerstat(tm) was the second one, crap, what was the third one?
[05:52:03] <Jymmm> pfred1: current control? That might be interesitng
[05:52:12] <djdelorie> pfred1: disable the current regulator, just run it in %on mode. Presto! Switching regulator. Ish.
[05:52:29] <pfred1> a 317 can regulate voltage or current
[05:52:47] <pfred1> though I've never used one in the current mode
[05:52:56] <Jymmm> It's just a variable hot wire controller is all, dnt need anything fancy, just DC, AC has too many harmonics
[05:53:00] <djdelorie> my UV exposure box has a dozen of them in that mode.
[05:53:28] <pfred1> yeah you just put it in circuit in series right?
[05:53:28] <KimK> Ha, here's what one company has to say about Variacs: http://www.thetransformer.co.in/Variacs.htm (Must be copied from an ancient parchment?)
[05:53:45] <djdelorie> how fast do you have to switch a hot wire? Arduino, thermister, relay...
[05:53:52] <djdelorie> temperature controlled wire!
[05:54:07] <Jymmm> switch?
[05:54:25] <Jymmm> djdelorie: Temp contol is a myth, it's a get it close =)
[05:54:28] <djdelorie> on off on off on off - the temperature can't change *that* fast, can it?
[05:54:29] <pfred1> KimK this is my variac http://www.instructables.com/id/Bare-Variac-Build/
[05:54:54] <Jymmm> djdelorie: OH YEAH! Hot wire is a funny beast
[05:55:06] <pfred1> KimK after messing with it I'll never look at AC the same again
[05:55:25] <Jymmm> djdelorie: ambient to 1400F in 7 seconds
[05:55:35] <djdelorie> hmmm... despite a transformer being inductive, if the secondary load is resistive, the V/I curve on the primary would still be resistive. A regular dimmer might work
[05:56:01] <djdelorie> so 0.1 second updates should keep it within 30F or so?
[05:56:13] <pfred1> I know people hook dimmers up to inductive loads and they seem to get away with it a lot
[05:56:27] <Jymmm> djdelorie: I made a hot wire once that used 120VAC directly, it LITERALLY sang at 60Hz
[05:56:43] <Jymmm> No more AC for me tyvm =)
[05:56:48] <djdelorie> the problem is, if it's a triac and the PF is too far off, it moves into a different quadrant and the triac could latch up or worse.
[05:56:51] <pfred1> it didn't hum? you must have had the length at a harmonic
[05:57:08] <Jymmm> pfred1: 52"
[05:57:18] <Jymmm> or there abouts
[05:57:35] <KimK> pfred1: Nice job, and great salvage buy, congrats!
[05:57:43] <Jymmm> maybe 40", I don't recall, but the cuts it made were wavy =)
[05:57:45] <pfred1> KimK thanks
[05:58:03] <pfred1> thing looks al ittle like a Dalek in the first picture
[05:58:33] <Jymmm> djdelorie: I wasn't joking about having 180K ft of NiChrome. I was sellign it a ways back =)
[06:00:02] <Jymmm> most of that is in 40ga though
[06:00:03] <pfred1> I salvaged a bunch of heating element wire our of an electric kiln I scrapped
[06:00:51] <Jymmm> Yeah, I have various gauges and OPF, so makes it easier to make hot wire cutters for various materials
[06:00:55] <pfred1> mostly i was interested in the bricks
[06:00:57] <djdelorie> make your own pcb reflow oven...
[06:01:36] <pfred1> I made this http://i.imgur.com/Ld6E4.jpg
[06:01:53] <djdelorie> a pile of bricks?
[06:02:02] <pfred1> it is a blast furnace to melt aluminum
[06:02:07] <djdelorie> sweet
[06:02:08] <Jymmm> pfred1: You made a SATAN CAT?
[06:02:15] <pfred1> heh my cat is evil
[06:02:20] <djdelorie> relax, it's just blue LEDs :-)
[06:02:27] <Jymmm> hhaha
[06:02:32] <morfic> nice watch cat
[06:02:40] <Jymmm> Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeees Master of Evil
[06:02:58] <djdelorie> the left eye starts blinking when the countdown reaches zero...
[06:03:04] <Jymmm> cats are only good for one thing
[06:03:28] <djdelorie> sharpening pencils?
[06:03:32] <Jymmm> dog food
[06:03:40] <pfred1> turning cat food into unusable compost
[06:03:57] <djdelorie> ...and leaving said compost in the hall right outside my office...
[06:04:07] * djdelorie is not a cat person
[06:04:13] <djdelorie> and the cat knows it
[06:04:22] <Jymmm> I love animals, but I'm against ANYTHING that hunts for sport. human, or beast.
[06:04:39] <pfred1> heh my cat is guilty of that pastime
[06:06:36] <Jymmm> Hunt for food all day long, but for sport... I'm more likely to shoot the SOB who does that.
[06:07:07] <pfred1> Jymmm when you live out in the country there's not always a whole lot for most folks to do
[06:07:17] <pfred1> so we shoot stuff!
[06:07:20] <Jymmm> pfred1: they can shoot each other.
[06:07:30] <pfred1> sometimes we do that too
[06:07:50] <Jymmm> try harder!
[06:08:06] <djdelorie> The bunnies canna handle it captain!
[06:08:31] <pfred1> I'm backed up to a hunting preserve here in fact
[06:09:30] <pfred1> at least it used to be the year it opened it was pretty popular it has since fallen off a lot
[06:09:36] <djdelorie> we get all sorts of wild animals right in our yard. Almost hit a pair of moose in the driveway
[06:09:58] <Jymmm> pfred1: Here, try one of these next tim http://i41.tinypic.com/1z6uno0.jpg
[06:10:00] <pfred1> like this? http://i.imgur.com/ZsbO6.jpg
[06:10:02] <Jymmm> time
[06:11:12] <djdelorie> http://www.delorie.com/photos/animals/img_0972.html
[06:11:26] <djdelorie> http://www.delorie.com/photos/animals/img_2302.html
[06:11:35] <djdelorie> http://www.delorie.com/photos/animals/20080513-wellbird.html
[06:11:40] <pfred1> Jymmm this is the closest commercial operation to me http://www.city-data.com/picfilesv/picv9337.php
[06:12:02] <Jymmm> pfred1: where you at?
[06:12:37] <pfred1> Jymmm lower delaware it is where all the pensuylvanians go to get drunked up and shoot at anything that moved
[06:12:44] <Jymmm> ah
[06:12:57] <pfred1> though us locals aren't much better I guess
[06:13:11] <Jymmm> Come on, look at that cuteness... http://i40.tinypic.com/35jlamp.jpg
[06:13:56] <djdelorie> "you don't taste like chocolate..."
[06:14:03] <pfred1> wasn't it mark zuckerberg that said they're going to kill whatever they eat?
[06:14:53] <Jymmm> Cuteness overload... http://i42.tinypic.com/35cptee.jpg
[06:15:03] <pfred1> I had ribs for lunch today I mean I'm no vegetarian
[06:15:34] <djdelorie> Cuteness overload... http://shirt.woot.com/Derby/Entry.aspx?id=45023
[06:15:45] <Jymmm> I'm a carnivor too, but like I said if it's for food, ok. If JSUT for sport, another matter.
[06:16:10] <Jymmm> djdelorie: That's just poofy!
[06:16:23] <pfred1> where's the unicorn?
[06:16:38] <djdelorie> maybe the whale ate it.
[06:16:41] <Jymmm> Poofy == The stuff that girls think are cute and adorable, but guys ar like WTF?!
[06:16:56] <pfred1> the whale does have a guilty look on his face
[06:17:00] <djdelorie> the shirt has the error popup on it though.
[06:17:29] <djdelorie> makes it funny for guys :-)
[06:18:18] <Jymmm> That's not actually a bad idea.... http://www.waldeneffect.org/20120315wireholder.jpg
[06:18:54] -!- Valen has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
[06:19:49] <pfred1> most go for the EMT through the ladder setup
[06:20:12] <Jymmm> if you have a ladder handy
[06:20:33] <pfred1> electricians usually have ladders
[06:20:53] <Jymmm> My ladders are the contortion ones
[06:21:01] <Jymmm> 12 and 16 ft
[06:21:02] <pfred1> german ladders?
[06:21:26] <Jymmm> http://www.loftladders1.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/folding-ladder.jpg
[06:21:37] <Jymmm> thats a 12ft verison
[06:21:44] <pfred1> yeah german ladder
[06:22:05] <Jymmm> you can make it scaffolding, folding, straight, 'M', etc
[06:22:33] <Jymmm> I have a plank for my 16ft and it hase the holes to mount a router to it too
[06:22:49] <Jymmm> ghetto router table
[06:23:04] <Jymmm> I got it that way
[06:23:40] <pfred1> my ghetto router table http://i.imgur.com/zJsf6.jpg
[06:23:50] -!- GoSebGo has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
[06:24:03] <Jymmm> hey, it works
[06:25:00] <djdelorie> my old router table: http://www.delorie.com/wood/projects/router/oldtable.jpg (now used as a step stool :)
[06:25:22] <pfred1> djdelorie primitive but effective I like it
[06:25:35] <djdelorie> its replacement was far from primitive, though.
[06:25:49] <pfred1> ever watch the router workshop on TV?
[06:25:56] <djdelorie> no
[06:26:09] <Jymmm> I made this... the slots are where the fence mounts to http://i49.tinypic.com/30jr2ja.jpg
[06:26:09] <pfred1> all that guy had was a router sticking up out of a hole in a table
[06:26:19] <pfred1> man he did it all
[06:26:48] <pfred1> Jymmm thats all you need
[06:26:57] <Jymmm> =)
[06:27:14] <pfred1> he didn't even have slots he'd clamp his fence on the edge of the table
[06:27:32] <Jymmm> heh
[06:29:25] <Jymmm> fsck it, I thik I'm going to get some 2.5" pvc pipe and make a plunger for a caulk gun and use it as a dispenser for the grease.
[06:29:51] <pfred1> why are you dispensing grease anyways?
[06:29:57] <Jymmm> maybe even all thread and a lil motor
[06:30:21] <Jymmm> pfred1: repacking it
[06:30:28] <Jymmm> repackaging
[06:30:45] <pfred1> oh filling up little tubes?
[06:30:49] <Jymmm> yeah
[06:31:29] -!- factor has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
[06:32:06] <pfred1> you could just empty a caulk tube and fill it with grease if you like caulk guns so much
[06:32:56] <pfred1> grease cartridges are a lot like caulk tubes
[06:33:06] <Jymmm> I need to be able to semi-control the fill. a caulk gun alone maintians pressure when you let go and keeps ooozing out. If I have a little motor, I can back off the pluger a tad between fills
[06:33:29] e-ndy|afk is now known as e-ndy
[06:34:47] <pfred1> Jymmm so you're making your own oozy sub machine gun?
[06:34:57] -!- Tecan has quit [Quit: live long and phosphor]
[06:35:03] <djdelorie> i.e. you need a makerbot extruder setup
[06:35:14] <Jymmm> I never thought of it that way, but yeah!
[06:35:35] <djdelorie> they suck the goo back in when they want to "stop" extruding
[06:35:46] <Jymmm> djdelorie: I HOPE I get to the point where I'll need PLC's
[06:36:03] <djdelorie> to dispense grease?
[06:36:13] <Jymmm> repacking it
[06:36:17] <pfred1> I do everything with simple chips
[06:36:17] <Jymmm> repackage it
[06:36:33] <Jymmm> ok arduino, same diff.
[06:36:35] <pfred1> like I'd probably do the time stuff with 555 timers
[06:36:42] <djdelorie> a cnc grease repackaging machine. Insert a tray of little jars, it fills them all. Usually.
[06:36:58] <Jymmm> djdelorie: not jars, tubes.
[06:37:04] <djdelorie> whatever
[06:37:08] <pfred1> heh
[06:37:15] <pfred1> yeah like the machine is going to care
[06:37:39] <Jymmm> not exactly, as you have to have a pipe near the bottom of the filled tube
[06:37:43] <djdelorie> maybe what you need is a miniature sausage filling machine
[06:38:14] <djdelorie> or just buy a box of pre-filled little tubes. Why are you doing this again?
[06:38:19] <Jymmm> it it was a continous tube, that would be easy.
[06:38:48] <Jymmm> just a small project is all.
[06:38:56] <djdelorie> ah, "just because" :-)
[06:39:13] <Jymmm> exactly!
[06:39:27] * pfred1 thinks Jymmm is getting into the snake oil sales business
[06:39:41] <djdelorie> my hvac guy has a saying for when I get into that mode.
[06:40:00] <djdelorie> "Tell the hamsters to get off the wheel and give it a rest already!"
[06:40:16] <Jymmm> and if I ever get to the point of repacking 100,000 tubes a day, I'll tell you =)
[06:40:22] <pfred1> lets see how the pros do it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z219IwVUtj4
[06:40:27] <djdelorie> you won't have time to tell us
[06:41:20] <Jymmm> pfred1: I dont have a spare $400K USD for that =)
[06:41:25] <pfred1> Jymmm this is the gadget you need
[06:41:55] <Jymmm> pfred1: they have a better one than that, same company too.
[06:42:20] <pfred1> yeah I can see loading them tubes getting old fast
[06:42:51] <Jymmm> I need to get to the point of filing a hopper with tubes and letting it have at it!
[06:46:55] -!- bedah [bedah!~bedah@g224075210.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #linuxcnc
[06:47:34] -!- pfred1 has quit [Quit: verizon sucks tonight]
[06:49:42] -!- factor [factor!~factor@] has joined #linuxcnc
[06:49:45] -!- DJ9DJ [DJ9DJ!~Deejay@unaffiliated/dj9dj] has joined #linuxcnc
[06:50:07] <DJ9DJ> moin
[06:53:00] <Jymmm> hola DJ9DJ
[06:53:29] <DJ9DJ> hi Jymmm
[06:53:49] <Jymmm> =)
[07:01:17] -!- jthornton-2 [jthornton-2!~john@] has joined #linuxcnc
[07:01:18] -!- jthornton has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
[07:14:49] -!- capricorn_1 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[07:24:13] <Loetmichel> mornin'
[07:36:05] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: Sorry, damn autocorrect... Hi there!
[07:36:42] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: hrhr
[07:37:39] <DJ9DJ> huh? ;)
[07:57:12] -!- maximilian_h has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
[08:07:24] -!- Valen [Valen!~Valen@2001:44b8:3199:9100:21e:8cff:fe63:55df] has joined #linuxcnc
[08:08:57] -!- rob_h [rob_h!~rob_h@5ace70c9.bb.sky.com] has joined #linuxcnc
[08:09:50] -!- factor has quit [Quit: Leaving]
[08:15:33] <Loetmichel> *brrr* *spit* *beeeeeeeeep* steel sheet enclosing made by angle grider is LOUD and dirty. *ptui* ... atl leas i wore safety glasses... ;-)
[08:15:58] <Jymmm> wuss
[08:16:30] -!- GH-1234 [GH-1234!~Miranda@0022faf5a8b2.dfn.mwn.de] has joined #linuxcnc
[08:16:41] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: For $3 these work good... http://www.harborfreight.com/industrial-ear-muffs-43768.html
[08:17:16] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: I ahven't tried them at the range yet
[08:17:36] <Jymmm> But for the router, laser, grinder, they work
[08:17:39] -!- factor [factor!~factor@r74-193-21-187.cnrocmta01.conrtx.tl.dh.suddenlink.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[08:17:50] <Loetmichel> yes, i have them here... was just to lazy to put them on ;-)
[08:18:20] <Jymmm> I keep mine on a hook (in a plastic bag) on the wall so I'm not too lazy to use them.
[08:18:39] <Valen> i use mine all the time
[08:18:46] <Valen> even for hammering nails
[08:18:49] <Jymmm> the bag just keeps the dust off
[08:19:06] <Valen> of course my house is built of of steel that was carefully formed to look like timber
[08:20:32] <Jymmm> I need a 6" diameter SS plate, maybe 18ga or so
[08:21:00] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=13015 <- now some holes in it and then bending and hoping the 2 parts will fit ;-)
[08:21:25] <Valen> looks old school
[08:21:43] -!- Tom_itx has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
[08:22:10] <Loetmichel> Valen: i have no CNC mill in the company
[08:22:20] <Loetmichel> and mine at home is to smallö for that
[08:22:33] <Loetmichel> so i have to build the prototypes by hand ;-)
[08:23:08] <Valen> i mean with all the rivet holes
[08:23:25] <Loetmichel> thats not rivet, tahts M2 thread
[08:23:30] <Loetmichel> m3
[08:24:03] <Loetmichel> and the count is because this is a enclosing for a Laptop brick PSU to shield it for EMI
[08:24:20] <Loetmichel> so you want even contact on all corners
[08:25:31] -!- vladimirek [vladimirek!~vladimire@mail.appliedp.com] has joined #linuxcnc
[08:27:58] -!- Tom_itx [Tom_itx!~Tl@unaffiliated/toml/x-013812] has joined #linuxcnc
[08:30:51] -!- syyl [syyl!~syyl@p4FD12FEC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[08:38:07] <awallin_> anyone here alive when this mill was made? :) http://blog.makezine.com/2012/04/02/punch-tape-programmable-metal-mill-from-1952/
[08:39:31] <Valen> Loetmichel: I'd just wrap it in foil ;-P
[08:40:10] -!- Jim_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
[08:53:41] -!- Jim_ [Jim_!~jsr@in-184-1-129-79.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[08:58:25] -!- Jim_ has quit [Client Quit]
[09:04:45] <Loetmichel> Valen: : foil: not good for soldier handling
[09:05:29] <Loetmichel> remember: sturdy-> idiot-proof -> soldier-proof ;-)
[09:13:53] <Valen> in that case i'd just get one that already meets the requiements
[09:14:04] <Valen> a power brick shouldn't be putting out that much emi
[09:14:10] <Valen> not if its actually been ticked
[09:26:53] <Loetmichel> Valen: thats OUR job: toget IT eqipment meet Sdip 27 ;-)
[09:27:37] <Loetmichel> soo, looks promising... -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=13018 http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=13021
[09:27:55] <Valen> your going to get usefull info from a power brick radiation?
[09:28:00] <Valen> if you say so
[09:28:10] <Valen> It'd be easier to use a steel cylinder anyway
[09:37:31] <Loetmichel> ... now i have to make some threads and then paint the whole thiung
[09:38:04] <Loetmichel> not useful. buit german regulations are so that ALL emi have to stay below a certain level
[09:39:46] <Loetmichel> interesting side note: the EMI isnt coming from the power brick, but radiated back from the scanner it supplys, cuirrent modulation
[09:40:23] <Loetmichel> but to fit the power brick and cabling in a stee enclosure is easyer than filtering the power input inside the scanner ;-)
[09:41:29] <Loetmichel> and yes. we have a measurement chamber and are certified to do Sdip/nato measurements and certs ;-)
[09:42:22] <archivist> awallin_, possibly :)
[09:42:46] <archivist> a 50% chance ish
[09:56:00] -!- vladimirek has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[10:02:16] e-ndy is now known as e-ndy|afk
[10:03:41] e-ndy|afk is now known as e-ndy
[10:05:53] -!- mhaberler has quit [Quit: mhaberler]
[10:22:34] jthornton-2 is now known as jthornton
[10:27:31] -!- mhaberler [mhaberler!~mhaberler@] has joined #linuxcnc
[10:33:09] -!- GH-1234 has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org]
[10:42:59] -!- sumpfralle [sumpfralle!~lars@31-16-21-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #linuxcnc
[10:43:10] -!- phantoxe [phantoxe!~destroy@a95-92-89-24.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #linuxcnc
[10:47:54] -!- sumpfralle has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
[10:58:10] -!- sumpfralle [sumpfralle!~lars@31-16-21-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #linuxcnc
[11:03:23] -!- sumpfralle has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
[11:04:02] -!- sumpfralle [sumpfralle!~lars@31-16-21-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #linuxcnc
[11:08:26] -!- syyl_ws [syyl_ws!~sg@p4FD12FEC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[11:09:09] -!- sumpfralle has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
[11:14:44] -!- sumpfralle [sumpfralle!~lars@31-16-21-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #linuxcnc
[11:16:54] -!- maximilian_h [maximilian_h!~bonsai@p549FDE82.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[11:26:24] -!- sumpfralle has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
[11:28:21] Vq_ is now known as Vq
[11:44:43] -!- servos4ever [servos4ever!~chatzilla@74-45-201-222.dr01.hnvr.mi.frontiernet.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[11:47:03] -!- SWPadnos has quit [Changing host]
[11:47:03] -!- SWPadnos [SWPadnos!~Me@emc/developer/SWPadnos] has joined #linuxcnc
[11:47:03] -!- mode/#linuxcnc [+v SWPadnos] by ChanServ
[11:48:51] -!- sumpfralle [sumpfralle!~lars@31-16-21-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #linuxcnc
[11:50:46] -!- sumpfralle1 [sumpfralle1!~lars@31-16-21-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #linuxcnc
[11:50:46] -!- sumpfralle has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
[11:54:36] -!- Tom_L [Tom_L!~Tl@unaffiliated/toml/x-013812] has joined #linuxcnc
[11:55:26] -!- Tom_itx has quit [Disconnected by services]
[11:55:32] Tom_L is now known as Tom_itx
[11:55:35] -!- zlog has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
[11:57:50] -!- zlog [zlog!~zlog@ip24-255-188-203.ks.ks.cox.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[12:01:55] -!- sumpfralle1 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
[12:07:52] -!- skunkworks__ has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
[12:14:52] -!- zlog has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[12:15:08] -!- zlog [zlog!~zlog@ip24-255-188-203.ks.ks.cox.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[12:18:38] -!- micges has quit [Quit: Leaving]
[12:44:11] -!- JT-Shop has quit [Quit: Leaving]
[13:01:43] -!- FinboySlick [FinboySlick!~shark@] has joined #linuxcnc
[13:02:04] -!- syyl_ws_ [syyl_ws_!~sg@p4FD13757.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[13:02:06] -!- JT-Shop [JT-Shop!~John@] has joined #linuxcnc
[13:02:07] -!- syyl_ [syyl_!~syyl@p4FD13757.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[13:04:53] -!- syyl_ws has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
[13:05:49] -!- syyl has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
[13:05:50] -!- skunkworks [skunkworks!~skunkwork@68-115-41-210.static.eucl.wi.charter.com] has joined #linuxcnc
[13:26:27] -!- pingufan has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
[13:31:30] -!- ries [ries!~ries@] has joined #linuxcnc
[13:34:02] -!- ries_ [ries_!~ries@] has joined #linuxcnc
[13:34:16] -!- ries has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
[13:34:16] ries_ is now known as ries
[13:45:05] -!- mhaberler has quit [Quit: mhaberler]
[13:59:11] <ssi> $88 for the flex couplers from hardinge
[13:59:29] <cradek> ssi: did you break one?
[13:59:33] <ssi> yeah
[13:59:41] <cradek> ouch
[13:59:51] <ssi> I silver soldered it back together, so I'm running again for now
[13:59:53] <cradek> easy to do, I broke one too
[14:00:29] <cradek> the axis can run away when they break
[14:00:33] <ssi> I'm pretty sure it was just high accel from oscillation while tuning that broke it
[14:00:43] <ssi> it didn't run away, cause it faulted
[14:01:08] <cradek> did you mess with the gear engagement in the resolver/tach gearbox?
[14:01:18] <cradek> mine broke when I made that too tight
[14:01:25] <ssi> I had the tach out
[14:01:36] <ssi> but I'm pretty sure the engagement was ok
[14:01:45] <ssi> it ran fine for a long time
[14:01:50] <cradek> ah
[14:01:59] <ssi> but I was tuning the axis, and I added some D term (which apparently I should never need)
[14:02:09] <ssi> and I saw a HUGE spike on error
[14:02:11] <ssi> and then the axis faulted
[14:02:17] <ssi> and the coupler was broken
[14:02:23] <cradek> yay for faults
[14:02:27] <ssi> yep
[14:04:12] <ssi> meeting, back in a bit
[14:07:38] -!- Cylly [Cylly!cylly@p54B12AB4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[14:09:38] -!- Loetmichel has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
[14:26:49] -!- Loetmichel [Loetmichel!cylly@p54B12AB4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[14:27:01] -!- Cylly has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
[14:32:32] -!- jp1_ has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
[14:36:27] -!- jp1_ [jp1_!~jp1@CPE0022b0b54c58-CM001bd71cb794.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #linuxcnc
[14:36:39] -!- psha [psha!~psha@] has joined #linuxcnc
[15:07:25] <Valen> ssi i use a teensy teensy bit of d
[15:07:42] <Valen> .00something i think
[15:10:56] -!- Valen has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
[15:14:32] e-ndy is now known as e-ndy|afk
[15:17:45] -!- joe9 [joe9!~joe9@c-24-99-80-97.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[15:30:01] -!- Radium [Radium!~carbon@] has joined #linuxcnc
[15:32:55] -!- jthornton has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
[15:33:22] -!- JT-Shop has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
[15:35:22] -!- jthornton [jthornton!~john@] has joined #linuxcnc
[15:41:22] -!- jthornton has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
[15:50:19] <ssi> back
[15:54:27] <ssi> alex4nder: around?
[15:56:03] <Loetmichel> re @ home
[15:59:02] -!- Radium has quit []
[16:01:02] -!- Nick001-Shop [Nick001-Shop!~chatzilla@] has joined #linuxcnc
[16:05:46] -!- maximilian_h [maximilian_h!~bonsai@p549FDE82.dip.t-dialin.net] has parted #linuxcnc
[16:11:35] -!- jthornton [jthornton!~john@] has joined #linuxcnc
[16:13:51] <Jymmm> jthornton: You might look at the ping pong setting in xchat
[16:14:59] -!- mhaberler [mhaberler!~mhaberler@] has joined #linuxcnc
[16:22:28] -!- mhaberler has quit [Quit: mhaberler]
[16:27:07] -!- sumpfralle [sumpfralle!~lars@31-16-21-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #linuxcnc
[16:33:42] -!- vladimirek [vladimirek!~vladimire@bband-dyn121.95-103-118.t-com.sk] has joined #linuxcnc
[16:37:43] -!- ve7it [ve7it!~LawrenceG@S0106001c10b7770f.pk.shawcable.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[16:41:38] -!- JT-Shop [JT-Shop!~John@] has joined #linuxcnc
[16:52:48] <mazafaka> If cutting depth is 1.5 mm, is it a lot easier for the inserts to bend the chip out from the surface of steel and therefore to stay sharp longer than if cutting depth is bigger.
[16:54:28] -!- ve7it has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[16:56:58] <archivist> see insert databook, depends
[16:58:36] -!- sumpfralle has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
[17:00:35] -!- sumpfralle [sumpfralle!~lars@31-16-21-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #linuxcnc
[17:01:51] -!- ve7it [ve7it!~LawrenceG@S0106001c10b7770f.pk.shawcable.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[17:03:03] -!- sumpfralle1 [sumpfralle1!~lars@31-16-21-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #linuxcnc
[17:03:03] -!- sumpfralle has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
[17:09:52] -!- IchGuckLive [IchGuckLive!~chatzilla@95-89-241-192-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #linuxcnc
[17:10:11] <IchGuckLive> Hi all where ever you are
[17:14:30] <alex4nder> gents
[17:14:35] <alex4nder> ssi: hey
[17:19:17] -!- FredrikHson [FredrikHson!~Silverwol@90-230-36-147-no43.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #linuxcnc
[17:30:58] <ssi> alex4nder: what's up
[17:31:10] <alex4nder> ssi: reading the news
[17:31:13] <alex4nder> what's going on with you?
[17:31:15] <ssi> alex4nder: I am contemplating getting started on this cam stuff
[17:31:21] <alex4nder> werd, do it
[17:31:27] <ssi> alex4nder: what are you using for an input format?
[17:32:13] <alex4nder> ssi: python
[17:33:04] -!- sumpfralle [sumpfralle!~lars@31-16-21-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #linuxcnc
[17:33:07] <Thetawaves> huh?
[17:33:11] <ssi> yeah, huh?
[17:33:11] <alex4nder> I'll put up an example
[17:33:13] <ssi> yes please
[17:33:39] -!- sumpfralle1 has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
[17:34:10] <IchGuckLive> ssi: why dont you use heekscad as a base
[17:34:21] <ssi> because it won't build
[17:34:24] <ssi> and I'm tired of screwing with it
[17:34:37] <Thetawaves> ssi, have you tried the opencascade fork?
[17:34:39] <IchGuckLive> ok
[17:34:43] <alex4nder> ssi: http://pastebin.com/jasyMbBi <- this
[17:34:51] <alex4nder> ssi: http://www.andern.org/alexander/taig_milling_wood.m4v <- produced that
[17:34:58] <ssi> Thetawaves: I'm not sure, I know I tried two separate ways of building it with no success
[17:35:14] <alex4nder> instant conversational milling.. just build a GUI around that concept.
[17:35:14] <Thetawaves> alex4nder, yeah i like that, what is that
[17:35:22] <ssi> alex4nder: yeah that's not bad
[17:35:26] <alex4nder> Python
[17:35:32] <Thetawaves> no
[17:35:36] <Thetawaves> RapidMoveTo
[17:35:44] <Thetawaves> or the Pocket module
[17:35:45] <alex4nder> it's a Python function
[17:35:48] <Thetawaves> where is this code
[17:35:48] <alex4nder> that I wrote
[17:36:43] <alex4nder> http://pastebin.com/9S8BK0h2 <-
[17:36:50] <IchGuckLive> in the wikipedia of linuxcnc i also have a python axis code that makes this
[17:36:52] <alex4nder> just don't make the initial version coplicated.
[17:37:00] <alex4nder> +m
[17:37:34] <FredrikHson> does anyone here know how to get a non standard baud rate for pyserial to work?
[17:37:36] <IchGuckLive> ssi: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Simple_LinuxCNC_G-Code_Generators#Rectangular_Circular_Pocketing_Generator
[17:38:00] <alex4nder> FredrikHson: on Linux?
[17:38:05] <FredrikHson> yes
[17:38:28] <FredrikHson> i get to much error on 115200 baud rate but i should get 0% on 125000 instead
[17:38:29] <ssi> IchGuckLive: I'm specifically working toward lathe cam, which noone seems to do
[17:38:49] <FredrikHson> and i know this chip supports up to 2M without problem (under windows anyway)
[17:39:12] <ssi> alex4nder: I like your approach, that's a pretty decent way to go about it
[17:39:17] <IchGuckLive> FredrikHson: ser = serial.Serial(PORT, 9600)
[17:39:25] <ssi> alex4nder: but I still need to figure out a way to import complex profiles, say from dxf or something
[17:39:51] <FredrikHson> IchGuckLive: i can get that slow rate to work yes up to 19200 should work with a 0.2% error rate
[17:39:53] <alex4nder> ssi: yah, and then you have to come up with a tool path strategy
[17:39:57] <ssi> alex4nder: yes
[17:40:14] -!- phantoxe has quit []
[17:40:14] <IchGuckLive> ssi: i got a PROE NC that has lathe inside so im not used to this opensource
[17:40:14] <ssi> alex4nder: and I've got some thoughts on that... I'm just going to do it incrementally
[17:40:16] <alex4nder> ssi: I'd start with the tool path strategy.. the DXF is "easy"
[17:40:34] <ssi> alex4nder: yeah I agree... I just want to find a way to represent a profile that I can do work on
[17:40:41] <cradek> FredrikHson: uarts only support particular baud rates.
[17:40:43] <IchGuckLive> FredrikHson: yes 11500 is my limit
[17:41:01] <IchGuckLive> FredrikHson: pendant ?
[17:41:02] <ssi> alex4nder: and I don't know what the best way to do that is. I'm thinking that I'll represent it as a series of line and circular arc segments
[17:41:07] <FredrikHson> my lcd totally freaks out when i send xyz at the same time with that 115200 rate thanks to me picking a 20mhz crystal on this atmega chip
[17:41:19] <ssi> (basically as a list of G1,2,3 g code blocks{
[17:41:21] <archivist> FredrikHson, lack of flow control is the usual mistake not baud rate
[17:41:33] <FredrikHson> yes making a pendant with lcd got everything working other than feed/spindle override and the buggy lcd serial
[17:41:37] -!- factor has quit [Quit: Leaving]
[17:41:40] <Thetawaves> i run my megas at 20mhz and use 115200 all day
[17:41:42] <Thetawaves> no errors
[17:41:50] <FredrikHson> archivist: actually its the baud making it slower fixed all the errors i had
[17:42:20] <FredrikHson> sending more than one axis at once gives errors mostly on the z axis
[17:42:23] <alex4nder> FredrikHson: it's up to the serial driver to decide if the baud rate is valid.
[17:42:28] -!- factor [factor!~factor@r74-193-21-187.cnrocmta01.conrtx.tl.dh.suddenlink.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[17:42:36] <alex4nder> FredrikHson: look at serialposix.py set_special_baudrate
[17:42:41] <FredrikHson> like -15.935 = +19749.062
[17:42:45] <archivist> FredrikHson, if you have no flow control then slower can help but it is still likely to bite you
[17:42:56] <Thetawaves> if you write the uart code for your megas properly, you will not have any errors..
[17:43:17] <Thetawaves> megas with a properly written uart handler will not need flow control....
[17:43:21] <IchGuckLive> FredrikHson: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5_4S24dW8w
[17:43:24] <cradek> archivist: AVRs don't have the ability to do hard flow control
[17:43:43] <archivist> cradek, xon xoff :)
[17:44:14] <cradek> I'm not sure they can do that either
[17:44:16] <alex4nder> ssi: what I would do is work out the math that leads to constant tool load, with 'easing' of the tool into the material
[17:44:32] <ssi> alex4nder: yeah, that's my plan
[17:44:32] <archivist> should be in the driver code
[17:44:37] <ssi> ramp plunge
[17:45:03] -!- kb8wmc has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
[17:45:06] <alex4nder> ssi: so I would work backwards from the desired profile, to the original stock profile.. and the replay those steps in reverse.
[17:45:19] <ssi> that's a reasonable approach
[17:45:19] <jepler> arduino has no provision for hardware flow control, and you can't do anything (like assert a hardware flow control pin or send an XOFF control code) without handling the receive interrupt
[17:45:35] <jepler> but if you can do *that* then there's no need to implement flow control
[17:45:36] -!- maximilian_h [maximilian_h!~bonsai@f051179202.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #linuxcnc
[17:45:40] -!- maximilian_h [maximilian_h!~bonsai@f051179202.adsl.alicedsl.de] has parted #linuxcnc
[17:45:45] <ssi> well my first thought is to have a way to scan a profile and determine the maximum back clearance angle necessary to produce it
[17:46:09] <ssi> ie maximum negative slope of any single point of the profile
[17:46:18] <ssi> and make sure that the selected tool is capable of reaching all points
[17:46:38] <IchGuckLive> ssi: blendercam is open and has a python lathe cam module inside
[17:46:50] -!- Jordan_ [Jordan_!~Jordan@74-140-138-156.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #linuxcnc
[17:47:08] <ssi> IchGuckLive: it's not on the first page of google
[17:47:10] <ssi> does it exist? :P
[17:47:44] <Jordan_> ssi you think it would be possible to attach a motor at each end of threaded rod, reverse input to get double torque?
[17:48:07] <ssi> Jordan_: might be dicey
[17:48:16] <Jordan_> what are the problems
[17:48:32] <ssi> differential acceleration or velocity
[17:48:42] <ssi> you'll need flex couplers at minimum
[17:48:50] <Jordan_> you mean motors not running the same
[17:49:14] <IchGuckLive> ssi: im still on blender2.49b thats 3years old will check this
[17:49:15] <ssi> yes
[17:49:21] <Jordan_> damn it
[17:49:32] <Jordan_> why wouldn't they run the same
[17:49:43] <ssi> because the universe is not perfect
[17:49:50] <Jordan_> damn universe
[17:50:09] <Jordan_> so they wouldn't even be close enough
[17:50:16] <ssi> I don't know
[17:50:19] <ssi> maybe they would
[17:50:20] <IchGuckLive> ssi http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?GcodeGenerator
[17:51:07] <Jordan_> well someone must of tried this
[17:51:23] <Jordan_> don't you think
[17:51:49] <alex4nder> IchGuckLive: matrix milling?
[17:52:00] <alex4nder> rasteriszed.. whatever
[17:52:16] <Jordan_> it would be stupid not to
[17:52:29] <alex4nder> wut
[17:53:03] <Jordan_> attaching two motors one at each end of rod for double torque
[17:54:18] <Jordan_> either double torque or use 2 really cheap motors for same torque
[17:56:15] <Jordan_> is anyone here stupid enough to try this?
[17:57:01] <Jordan_> how about you ssi?
[17:57:32] <Jymmm> how about you try it Jordan_?
[17:57:35] <Thetawaves> you are doing it wrong
[17:57:38] <Thetawaves> mount the motors together
[17:58:02] <alex4nder> you need to go human centipede
[17:58:04] <Jordan_> ha, i'm not that stupid
[17:58:06] <alex4nder> s/human/motor/
[17:58:11] <Thetawaves> you won't need a flex cuff with proper alignment, and you bolt them together to ease alignment
[17:58:13] <Jymmm> alex4nder: LOL
[17:58:21] <Jymmm> alex4nder: and Ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
[17:58:28] <alex4nder> haha
[17:58:46] <Jymmm> alex4nder: and #2 is coming out
[17:58:47] <Thetawaves> cuff ... coupling
[17:58:57] <alex4nder> Jymmm: out of which end?
[17:59:12] <Jymmm> alex4nder: this summer it's supose to be released
[17:59:24] <Jymmm> alex4nder: HC2
[17:59:39] <alex4nder> Jymmm: laf
[17:59:45] <Jymmm> ?
[18:00:07] <alex4nder> I'm frightened.
[18:00:27] <Jymmm> alex4nder: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1530509/
[18:00:56] <Jymmm> oh, it's already out
[18:00:57] -!- kb8wmc [kb8wmc!~chatzilla@nat.mtp.cmsinter.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[18:01:39] <Jymmm> alex4nder: HAHAHAHAHAHA http://www.studiobriefing.net/2011/11/australia-bans-human-centipede-ii/
[18:02:06] <alex4nder> I'm sorry Jordan_ , your motor combination will not be allowed down under.
[18:02:10] <Thetawaves> that movie was great
[18:02:17] <IchGuckLive> ssi: http://code.google.com/p/pyturn/downloads/list here is the code
[18:02:20] <Thetawaves> at making me hate old german dudes
[18:02:38] <Jordan_> what are flex cuffs for
[18:03:10] <Thetawaves> flex coupler sorry
[18:03:14] <Thetawaves> flex cuffs are zip ties
[18:03:30] <Jordan_> what are flex couplers for
[18:04:09] <Thetawaves> they allow for minor misalignment
[18:04:26] <Jordan_> of what in what application
[18:04:32] <Jordan_> or misalignment
[18:04:36] <Jordan_> oh*
[18:04:39] <Thetawaves> two shafts in any rotating shaft situation
[18:04:57] <Jordan_> so it won't let them decouple spin
[18:05:07] <Thetawaves> some may
[18:05:19] <Jordan_> but you wouldn't want that for 2 motors
[18:05:32] -!- Nick001 has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
[18:05:35] <Thetawaves> huh?
[18:05:57] <Jordan_> a motor at each end
[18:06:06] <Thetawaves> why not two motors attached together?
[18:06:22] <Jordan_> becuase that's double speed not double torque
[18:06:22] <IchGuckLive> i use 2motors double traction with timebelts
[18:06:33] <FredrikHson> i don't suppose there is a way to do all this hal interfacing with c++ instead of python by any chance?
[18:06:42] <Thetawaves> Jordan_, wat
[18:06:48] <Jordan_> IchGuckLive, pic?
[18:06:49] <Thetawaves> how would that be double speed?
[18:06:54] <alex4nder> haha
[18:07:04] <Jordan_> actually i don't know what you mean by attaching them together
[18:07:14] <alex4nder> Jordan_: ass to face
[18:07:24] <IchGuckLive> Jordan_: no
[18:07:39] -!- kb8wmc has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
[18:07:44] <Jordan_> i'm not putting my ass to my face
[18:07:49] <Jordan_> lol jk
[18:08:36] <Jordan_> i still don't see how that work you mean the shaft goes through the 2 motors?
[18:09:05] -!- kb8wmc [kb8wmc!~chatzilla@nat.mtp.cmsinter.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[18:09:06] <IchGuckLive> 2 timebelt systems in a row eatch pulled by a motor
[18:09:13] <Thetawaves> you have a flex coupler to adjust between misalignment of the screw and motor shaft, if you bolt two motors together you just need a regular shaft coupler because (i assume) the motor - motor alignment is easily done
[18:09:57] -!- Nick001-Shop_ [Nick001-Shop_!~chatzilla@clsm-207-7-180-228-pppoe.dsl.clsm.epix.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[18:10:06] <Jordan_> i'd have to see an example
[18:11:43] -!- Nick001-Shop has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
[18:11:54] Nick001-Shop_ is now known as Nick001-Shop
[18:13:49] <ssi> IchGuckLive: taking a look
[18:13:52] <ssi> IchGuckLive: have you worked with it?
[18:13:58] <IchGuckLive> no
[18:14:23] <IchGuckLive> this is from davisd falk how does the heekscam
[18:14:42] <Jordan_> Thetawaves, you got one?
[18:14:48] <IchGuckLive> so its based on the iso gcode python routines
[18:16:05] <IchGuckLive> im off for today by
[18:16:10] -!- IchGuckLive has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 10.0.2/20120216080748]]
[18:17:17] <ssi> hrm
[18:17:24] <ssi> that code he linked is exactly one python file
[18:17:28] <ssi> 9k
[18:17:32] <ssi> a handful of functionns
[18:18:23] <Thetawaves> no examples.
[18:18:41] <Thetawaves> i know one guy on freenode stacked two stepper motors for more torque
[18:19:13] <Spida> does that work?
[18:19:34] <Thetawaves> he claimed it did.
[18:19:40] <Thetawaves> and i don't see why it wouldn't
[18:19:44] <Spida> better than a single one?
[18:19:54] <Thetawaves> double the better, obviously
[18:20:45] <ssi> haha
[18:28:43] -!- kb8wmc has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
[18:28:45] -!- sumpfralle1 [sumpfralle1!~lars@31-16-21-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #linuxcnc
[18:28:50] <Jordan_> can get a pic
[18:28:52] <Jordan_> i want to see it
[18:29:16] <Jordan_> i'm still not sure exactly how it mounts, why not just put them on opposing ends?
[18:32:07] -!- sumpfralle has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
[18:33:19] -!- kb8wmc [kb8wmc!~chatzilla@nat.mtp.cmsinter.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[18:35:21] <Thetawaves> Jordan_, why would that be better? your screws should be much big enough that it doesn't matter where the torque is applied
[18:35:33] <Thetawaves> s/much//
[18:35:49] <Jordan_> for easier mounting
[18:36:36] -!- gene_ [gene_!~gene@] has joined #linuxcnc
[18:36:48] <Thetawaves> and what i suspect to be harder alignment
[18:36:55] <Thetawaves> so you need two flex couplers instead of 1
[18:37:38] <Jordan_> so they go ass to face right
[18:37:53] <Thetawaves> yeah
[18:38:14] <Jordan_> so it's got to be a motor with a shaft that goes through both ends
[18:38:37] <Thetawaves> yeah
[18:38:45] <Jordan_> well that limits your options
[18:38:50] <Thetawaves> but you've got those kind anyway right?
[18:39:36] <Jordan_> i think it's easier to find and cheaper if it just goes through one end
[18:40:07] <Thetawaves> most cnc steppers have a hand wheel mounted on the back
[18:40:15] <Jordan_> what's that
[18:40:17] <alex4nder> s/most/some/
[18:40:54] <gene_> Only the ones I've bought from somebody like Herbach &Radman have been single ended
[18:41:25] <Jordan_> oh mine do have a hole on the back
[18:41:36] <Jordan_> is there a way to attach them
[18:42:46] <ssi> Jordan_: are these your $2 floppy drive steppers?
[18:42:51] <Jordan_> lol no
[18:43:01] <ssi> are they honest to god nema frame motors?
[18:43:03] -!- mhaberler [mhaberler!~mhaberler@] has joined #linuxcnc
[18:43:08] <Jordan_> yes
[18:43:11] <Jordan_> nema17
[18:43:18] <Jordan_> but i still do have my eye on those ssi
[18:43:57] <gene_> Need man translation guys
[18:44:27] <gene_> when it says (bit), is this a net, a setp or an addf?
[18:44:32] <Jordan_> give me one good reason not to use 2 of those in series
[18:44:58] <Jordan_> well actually i guess it would be parallel circuitly speaking
[18:45:04] <Thetawaves> you have to fabricate more parts?
[18:45:24] <Jordan_> like what
[18:45:39] <Jordan_> drill a few holes in an aluminum block
[18:46:23] <FredrikHson> found the problem wasn't the baud rate even tho making changes did fix that but instead it was the buffer that was being overrun
[18:46:39] <Thetawaves> i told you
[18:46:54] <Thetawaves> i spent a lot of time making it 100% correct
[18:50:13] <jthornton> gene_, what are you trying to do?
[18:50:31] <jthornton> (bit) is off and on 1 or 0 more or less
[18:57:01] -!- ktchk [ktchk!~eddie6929@n219079097190.netvigator.com] has joined #linuxcnc
[19:00:00] <XXPCWXX> net and setp could apply to a bit (but not addf)
[19:00:01] <Jordan_> hmm, if i put them in parallel the resistance would go down on them
[19:02:10] <Jordan_> how does that work, do you have to raise the voltage 2x
[19:02:18] <djdelorie> same voltage, twice the current
[19:02:33] <djdelorie> each sees the same voltage/current as before
[19:02:36] <Jordan_> oh right
[19:02:48] <Jordan_> half the resistance
[19:02:52] <Jordan_> 2x currernt
[19:03:39] <Jordan_> would it change any characteristics about them you think
[19:04:57] <Jordan_> the resistances probably won't be exactly the same, so one will get slightly more current
[19:06:13] <gene_> Hi John; trying to setup my spindle encoder. It runs in quadrature, with an index per rev, and has 39 holes in the disk. How do I calculate position-scale?
[19:07:06] <XXPCWXX> why such a weird number?
[19:07:25] <gene_> it fit the available diameter?
[19:08:32] <gene_> That theoretically gives me a resolution in the 2.3 degree range
[19:08:39] <XXPCWXX> so 156 counts/turn
[19:10:48] <gene_> that looks right, but then I want to see it in the gui too eventually
[19:11:15] -!- phantoxe [phantoxe!~destroy@a95-92-89-24.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #linuxcnc
[19:11:56] -!- psha has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
[19:11:57] <XXPCWXX> did you look at the spindle synchronized motion section of the integrators manual?
[19:11:59] <XXPCWXX> Looks like the scale is just counts per turn
[19:12:32] <djdelorie> 36 holes would have gotten you exactly 2.5 degrees...
[19:13:46] <gene_> no, I haven't. DJ, but then the duty cycle would have been munged, this is very close to a 50% cycle with good quadrature
[19:16:05] <gene_> That looks like the encoder-ratio stuffs?
[19:16:12] <XXPCWXX> integrators manual page 226
[19:16:33] <XXPCWXX> has a good example
[19:16:42] <gene_> I don't think my copy is new enough, but lemme check
[19:16:42] <FredrikHson> perfect solved my problems without going for a 100% perfect baud rate :D
[19:16:57] <FredrikHson> just by actually checking how much stuff i had in the damn buffer
[19:17:14] <XXPCWXX> there never is a 100% perfect baud rate...
[19:17:21] <FredrikHson> sure there is
[19:17:44] -!- ktchk [ktchk!~eddie6929@n219079097190.netvigator.com] has parted #linuxcnc
[19:17:49] <FredrikHson> 125000 and 250000 was perfect rates for this chip at this crystal speed
[19:18:00] <FredrikHson> and yes the crystal isn't 100.00000000% perfect
[19:18:22] <XXPCWXX> and its not the same as the crystal on th other end...
[19:18:23] <gene_> No, not by a couple years.
[19:19:22] <jthornton> gene_, have you read this? http://linuxcnc.org/docview/2.5/html/examples/spindle.html#_spindle_feedback_a_id_spindle_feedback_a
[19:19:56] <jthornton> well I think I finally got the AC back up and working...
[19:21:30] <gene_> Found the right page, was looking in wrong 3 ring
[19:21:46] <XXPCWXX> is it AC time in MO? Still cold here
[19:22:20] <gene_> Got that on screen too, thanks
[19:24:30] <JT-Shop> we have had unseasonable warm weather for the last month
[19:24:36] <JT-Shop> mid 80's
[19:25:07] -!- acemi [acemi!~acemi@unaffiliated/acemi] has joined #linuxcnc
[19:25:10] <XXPCWXX> its mid 50s right now
[19:25:27] <JT-Shop> nice!
[19:27:00] <XXPCWXX> Its just weird this year we had 80s in Feb
[19:27:31] <JT-Shop> that is weird
[19:28:00] <JT-Shop> can the parallel port drive a pc speaker somehow?
[19:28:27] <frysteev_> yup
[19:28:29] <frysteev_> pwm
[19:28:40] <frysteev_> it can make 'sound'
[19:28:58] -!- ghfhjgfjhgfhjgfh [ghfhjgfjhgfhjgfh!~rene@p5B2EED25.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #linuxcnc
[19:29:02] <frysteev_> but what kind of sound is a different matter
[19:29:21] <frysteev_> my 120v wall socket can also drive a speaker:P
[19:29:30] <frysteev_> also success on the laser hoist will have pics soon
[19:29:31] <ssi> it's high 70s low 80s here now already
[19:30:09] -!- vladimirek has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
[19:30:38] <gene_> 80F here on my back porch in WV, USA, 72F in this garage
[19:30:57] <gene_> humm, didn't like something:
[19:31:00] <ssi> I lied, it's 87 here
[19:31:09] <gene_> my-lathe.hal:59: Signal name 'encoder.0.phase-A' must not be the same as a pin. Did you omit the signal name?
[19:31:29] <Jordan_> getting abnormally hot here too
[19:33:16] <gene_> I thought encoder.0.0phase-A was a name???
[19:35:26] <ghfhjgfjhgfhjgfh> Hello i have a problem with Axis. is it possible to stop axis showing error gcode massages?
[19:37:17] <djdelorie> sure, give it valid gcode :-)
[19:37:27] <JT-Shop> yep
[19:37:38] <gene_> concur
[19:37:53] <mhaberler> djdelorie: re traveling salesman path optimization: I gave the wrong link yesterday. This one is easy to build and should be able to do 3d tours: http://www.akira.ruc.dk/~keld/research/LKH/
[19:39:05] <djdelorie> I was thinking of making a "test pattern" of holes, say 20x20 on a 0.030" grid, for timing. But to time the accuracy and speed, I'd want a fixed pattern; TSP would not give me testable results
[19:39:23] <djdelorie> for example, I'd want ever other hole to be on the "other side" of the previously drilled hole, to test backlash
[19:39:36] <mhaberler> oh. I thought you were in for a speed record ;)
[19:39:47] <ghfhjgfjhgfhjgfh> the problem is that the code is valid. I read a analog signal over m66 and put it to a g1 command. But when axis starts the analog signal is zero
[19:39:58] <gene_> what did I miss in this:
[19:40:03] <djdelorie> in the end, yes. I'm breaking it down into two parts: testing the speed of individual holes, and testing the travel speed for an arbitrary pcb
[19:40:08] <gene_> loadrt encoder num_chan=3
[19:40:10] <gene_> addf encoder.update-counters base-thread
[19:40:11] <gene_> addf encoder.capture-position servo-thread
[19:40:13] <gene_> setp encoder.0.counter-mode false
[19:40:14] <gene_> setp encoder.0.x4-mode true
[19:40:16] <gene_> setp encoder.0.position-scale 156.0000
[19:40:17] <gene_> net spindle-position encoder.0.position => motion.spindle-revs
[19:40:19] <gene_> net spindle-velocity encoder.0.velocity => motion.spindle-speed-in
[19:40:20] <gene_> net spindle-index-enable encoder.0.index-enable <=> motion.spindle-index-enable
[19:40:22] <gene_> net encoder.0.phase-A parport.0.pin-12-in
[19:40:23] <gene_> net encoder.0.phase-B parport.0.pin-15-in
[19:40:25] <gene_> net encoder.0.phase-Z parport.0.pin-13-in
[19:40:41] <djdelorie> beep! beep! beep! beep! beep! ;-)
[19:41:38] <archivist> irc overflow error at line 3
[19:42:09] <mhaberler> oh. awallin was on the TSP case already: http://www.anderswallin.net/page/13/?s
[19:42:23] <gene_> there are now <= signs in the last three lines, same error
[19:42:49] <XXPCWXX> gene_ you need a "wire" name for the net
[19:43:08] <gene_> whats a 'wire'
[19:43:11] <XXPCWXX> net A0 encoder.0.phase-A parport.0.pin-12-in
[19:43:23] <XXPCWXX> A0 is the "wire"
[19:44:05] <gene_> then what are the other 2? B0, Z0?
[19:44:17] <XXPCWXX> anything you like
[19:44:25] <jthornton> no that is a signal
[19:44:39] <gene_> but it should make sense
[19:44:46] <jthornton> gene_, http://linuxcnc.org/docview/2.5/html/hal/basic_hal.html
[19:44:47] <XXPCWXX> yes
[19:46:17] <jthornton> gene_, it must be "net signal-name [pins]
[19:46:28] <jthornton> like
[19:47:04] <XXPCWXX> sorry, I tend to think of signals as "wires"
[19:47:14] <jthornton> net my-signal parport.0.pin-10-in
[19:47:31] -!- skunkworks has quit []
[19:47:53] <jthornton> well they are in a sense wires as they connect things together
[19:48:39] <jthornton> I just said signal as that is what is used in the manual
[19:50:31] <gene_> adding an A-phase, B-phase and Z-index seems to have solved that, at least it will start
[19:50:52] <gene_> Now what do I do with these 'signals?
[19:51:34] <XXPCWXX> dont need to do anything if you dont need them
[19:51:43] <JT-Shop> yep
[19:52:58] <XXPCWXX> if it bothers you you can always use it this way:
[19:53:00] <XXPCWXX> net A0 encoder.0.phase-A
[19:53:02] <XXPCWXX> net A0 parport.0.pin-12-in
[19:53:04] <XXPCWXX> which is equivalent to:
[19:53:06] <XXPCWXX> net A0 encoder.0.phase-A parport.0.pin-12-in
[19:54:01] <gene_> At some point I want a constant linear speed, and of course to cut threads, but this will do till I get all this installed on the lathe, which is waiting on the proper parportconnectors
[19:56:20] <XXPCWXX> Now if HAL would just have a string type...
[19:57:18] <JT-Shop> I thought there was a comp that did string error messages or something like that
[19:57:25] <djdelorie> how do you send a string over a wire? ;-)
[19:57:41] <JT-Shop> gene_, do you mean constant surface speed?
[19:58:34] <XXPCWXX> I mean native type so a driver can pass more connection/scale/unit hints to HAL
[19:58:49] <JT-Shop> yea, that would be cool
[19:59:45] <XXPCWXX> C Morely already hates us for the SSERIAL discovery stuff But we can make it much worse!
[20:00:38] <JT-Shop> LOL
[20:05:46] <ssi> I want to get CSS and threading working on my lathe! :'(
[20:06:18] <djdelorie> I got CSS working on my web server, does that help? ;-)
[20:06:24] <ssi> NO
[20:06:26] <djdelorie> ;-)
[20:06:38] <djdelorie> I'm still learning how to use my lathe *manually*
[20:07:02] <djdelorie> http://www.delorie.com/photos/southbend-lathe/img_2617.html
[20:07:33] <ssi> nice plotter :P
[20:07:49] <djdelorie> that's the spare for the bigger one
[20:08:39] <djdelorie> the big one is 36" wide with a roll feeder and color print head. It required some parts from the little one and some purchased replacement parts to get it working
[20:09:52] <djdelorie> however, its print head is failing too, probably bad connections on the big ribbon cable. Yet another project.
[20:10:40] -!- Radium [Radium!~carbon@] has joined #linuxcnc
[20:19:31] <JT-Shop> ssi, hook up your spindle encoder
[20:21:07] <djdelorie> in the case where linuxcnc is reading the encoder, what kind of motor/driver is commonly used?
[20:21:46] <cradek> velocity mode analog controlled servos are very nice in that setup
[20:21:57] <djdelorie> DC or three-phase ?
[20:22:01] <cradek> torque mode also work but take more care to tune
[20:22:08] <cradek> either dc or ac, doesn't matter
[20:22:43] -!- kb8wmc has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
[20:22:50] <djdelorie> hmmm... mine are BLDC three phase, and the controller use velocity control at one level of the control loop, would it be better to give linuxcnc control over them?
[20:23:02] <djdelorie> (it would be HARDER just wondering if linuxcnc would do a better job)
[20:24:01] <cradek> hard to say. it would eliminate your step rate problems. it would let you see following error in halscope and tune your loop responses with hal's pid.
[20:24:07] <djdelorie> I haven't tuned the control loop well enough to eliminate the lag between "should be at" and "actually at" yet
[20:24:24] <cradek> it could track the machine when the amps are turned off (like after a fault or when manually moving it)
[20:24:44] <djdelorie> I can already do those with my controllers just by hooking up the serial port :-)
[20:24:48] <cradek> you could home to encoder index pulse to get repeatable positions to exactly one count
[20:25:05] <djdelorie> and they maintain tracking when motor power is cut, like for estop
[20:25:24] <cradek> sure you may have reimplemented some features already :-)
[20:25:25] <djdelorie> hmmm... I could gate the home signals on the encoder index pulse too
[20:25:38] -!- ghfhjgfjhgfhjgfh has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
[20:25:47] <cradek> then you have to travel VERY slowly to not miss it.
[20:26:08] <djdelorie> it's cought in hardware
[20:26:29] <djdelorie> but axis would have to do the back-off-try-again-slowly trick anyway, right?
[20:26:29] <cradek> real encoder counters tell hal that the index has passed since the last reading, and then the subsequent count afterward
[20:26:56] <djdelorie> I've got all that in hardware already... too bad I can't just hook up the CAN bus
[20:27:01] <cradek> no, you don't have to home slowly.
[20:27:45] <djdelorie> no, the hardware doesn't require it. It can catch the pulse at full RPM
[20:28:39] -!- pfred1 [pfred1!~ubuntu@unaffiliated/pfred1] has joined #linuxcnc
[20:28:51] <cradek> but how do you tell linuxcnc, if you're step dir only?
[20:28:56] <djdelorie> at max RPM, those signals are in the 50 KHz range, and there would be six of them, plus three index pulses. I'd need a faster PC...
[20:29:15] <djdelorie> the controllers have step/dir, CAN, and serial on them.
[20:29:17] <cradek> that's why you use a mesa card (et al) to do the counting
[20:29:18] * pfred1 has a faster PC now :)
[20:29:49] <alex4nder> djdelorie: what software do you have running on the controllers?
[20:29:58] <pfred1> [ 0.008003] Calibrating delay loop (skipped), value calculated using timer frequency.. 4999.85 BogoMIPS (lpj=9999704)
[20:30:16] <djdelorie> easier would be if axis could send the "I think you're running at this RPM" over CAN, and still step/dir over parallel. Then I could adjust the inner control loop on the fly
[20:30:29] <djdelorie> alex4nder: a bunch of C code I wrote myself
[20:31:04] <cradek> step/dir is position, so I'm not sure what you mean
[20:31:29] <cradek> don't your drives have commanded and feedback position and pid etc?
[20:31:31] <pfred1> well they are commands to position
[20:31:34] <alex4nder> djdelorie: yah, don't think I'd put any of that closed-loop control on the PC if I could help it.
[20:31:54] <djdelorie> my current inner loop uses "how far off target am I" to set the desired RPM. If I could offset the "desired RPM" by what axis wanted, it would track closer to target
[20:32:00] <djdelorie> My pid-fu sucks ;-)
[20:32:10] <cradek> alex4nder: it's the best way with many many advantages (read back)
[20:32:29] <djdelorie> so, at the moment, the faster the motors are actually spinning, the more off the positioning is
[20:32:39] <pfred1> makes sense
[20:32:42] <cradek> djdelorie: pid-ff in hal is excellent
[20:32:42] <djdelorie> it's not much, but it still bothers me ;-)
[20:33:16] <djdelorie> hmmm... long term, a hal module for a can controller would let me send out the "assumed RPM" to the controllers, yes?
[20:33:20] <cradek> I'm a bit puzzled by your implementation then
[20:33:40] -!- vladimirek [vladimirek!~vladimire@bband-dyn121.95-103-118.t-com.sk] has joined #linuxcnc
[20:33:42] <cradek> I guess so...
[20:33:52] <cradek> linuxcnc outputs positions
[20:33:52] <pfred1> who is the mesa guy that usually hangs out here?
[20:33:55] <djdelorie> in a nutshell, I calculate actual and desired position. Based on that, I calculate actual and desired RPM. Based on that, actual and desired winding current. Based on that, voltage.
[20:34:32] <djdelorie> there's an I term to lock it on position when it stops too, in case there's a static load
[20:35:04] <djdelorie> cradek: the axis display has speed, I assume hal has a signal for each axes' speed ?
[20:35:19] <cradek> can't you plot or scope your following error somehow?
[20:35:32] <djdelorie> it would be something a display add-on would want.
[20:35:34] <cradek> if you have static error at certain speeds you shoud implement ff and tune it
[20:35:41] <cradek> should
[20:36:01] <pfred1> so like a servo?
[20:36:05] <djdelorie> Sure, I know exactly what the following error is. I just don't know what axis is planning so I don't know how to compensate for it
[20:36:19] <djdelorie> pfred1: it's like a servo, yes.
[20:36:20] <cradek> the position error tells you
[20:36:45] <cradek> if you are getting a position error proportional to velocity you need feedforward
[20:36:46] -!- kb8wmc [kb8wmc!~chatzilla@nat.mtp.cmsinter.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[20:36:54] <djdelorie> again, my pid-fu sucks ;-) I have a friend who's better at pid than I am, but he hasn't been able to come over and help since I got it working
[20:37:07] <pfred1> buy better beer
[20:37:24] <djdelorie> his job involves travel. I can't buy him *that* much beer
[20:37:35] -!- syyl_ws_ has quit [Quit: Verlassend]
[20:38:18] <ssi> JT-Shop: spindle encoder IS hooked up!
[20:38:19] <pfred1> djdelorie from what I saw of your drives they are high performance I hope you get them sorted out
[20:38:24] <ssi> er, resolver is
[20:38:38] <djdelorie> so, actual rpm -> offset correction -> desired rpm -> ... ?
[20:38:46] <djdelorie> that sounds like positive feedback to me
[20:39:08] <pfred1> don't all servos need feedback?
[20:39:24] <cradek> it's not an offset you want, it's proportional to velocity, ff1
[20:39:26] <pfred1> see this is why I went with steppers
[20:39:46] <djdelorie> pfred1: my motors have both hall sensors and 100-line encoders on them. They're connected to the controller.
[20:39:57] <cradek> there's nothing wrong with servos, but there's a slight problem making a step-servo controller without understanding pid :-)
[20:40:17] <pfred1> cradek I figured start out small and work my way up
[20:40:33] <pfred1> linuxcnc can be enough to get going
[20:40:40] <djdelorie> I have the P and I parts ok, D makes the motors panic. It's just following error I'm working on
[20:40:58] <pfred1> ah you need hysterisis (sp)
[20:41:01] <djdelorie> the problem is, most PID tutorials are designed for RPM being the target, not position
[20:41:10] -!- kb8wmc has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
[20:41:35] <cradek> that doesn't matter, you're just off by a derivative
[20:41:38] <ssi> yep
[20:41:38] <djdelorie> pfred1: yeah, there's special code for when it's only off by a few counts. Usually it sits on a line edge and humms when it should be stopped.
[20:41:42] <ssi> position is integration of rpm :)
[20:42:05] <djdelorie> yeah, I know, but the "plus a constant" makes it harder
[20:42:32] <cradek> that is 'deadband' and of course hal's pid has it too
[20:42:53] <pfred1> one thing I've grown used to is strange noises when it comes to CNC
[20:43:08] <djdelorie> so back to my math; if I use the actual current RPM to offset my calculations for desired RPM based on measured lag, it should "just work"?
[20:43:15] <pfred1> there are youtube videos of people playing music on their CNC machines
[20:43:27] <djdelorie> speaking of strange noises: why does stepconf let you put estop on a pin, but not machine on/off ?
[20:43:48] <cradek> djdelorie: http://linuxcnc.org/docview/html/man/man9/pid.9.html <- read about pid.N.FF1
[20:44:03] <pfred1> stepconf is great but text editing the ini file is not to be overlooked
[20:44:22] <cradek> djdelorie: "machine on" is "amp enable", meant to power up servo amps or stepper drives
[20:44:30] <djdelorie> ah, so I tell axis what my follow error is, and let *it* compensate ?
[20:45:18] <cradek> in a normal setup, position feedback goes into hal, and velocity command (made with pid) goes out of hal
[20:45:34] <cradek> then you can monitor everything with halscope and tune the loop
[20:45:47] <djdelorie> assuming I don't want to re-engineer my control boards, can I use the pid in hal to *just* to FF1 ?
[20:45:52] <cradek> commanded position comes from linuxcnc into hal's pid
[20:46:37] <djdelorie> at the moment, the lag is (almost) exactly 10 RPM per step (or one step per 10 RPM)
[20:46:42] <cradek> perhaps you could run software stepgen in velocity mode, commanded by hal's pid
[20:46:46] <pfred1> djdelorie I don't want to rain on yoru parade but my present drivers are hardly the first ones I made :)
[20:47:01] <pfred1> until it works everything is in a state of flux
[20:47:16] <djdelorie> I'm sure I'll redo many things over time, I'm just looking for something that works with what I've got first
[20:47:17] <cradek> if the ferror is linear proportional to velocity then FF1 is exactly the fix
[20:47:50] <djdelorie> it is, "desired RPM" is N times position error, and I can track desired RPM pretty closely
[20:48:12] <cradek> isn't your pid in firmware? why not just add ff1?
[20:48:21] <djdelorie> that was my "back to my math" question
[20:48:36] <cradek> perhaps check out pid.c?
[20:48:46] <djdelorie> perhaps
[20:49:35] -!- mozmck has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
[20:49:49] <ssi> I wrote a pid implementation once
[20:49:53] <ssi> for a quadrotor
[20:49:57] <ssi> it was a pain in the ass :)
[20:50:23] <ssi> and at the end of the day, I couldn't make the motors respond fast enough to get it stable... too much rotor inertia
[20:50:49] <djdelorie> treat inertia like inductance, and calculate power accordingly? Or just not enough power?
[20:51:24] <djdelorie> my lowest loop does the inductance/current/volts math so that the correction finishes just as the next control loop checks it
[20:52:15] <djdelorie> but it means sometimes you get a voltage spike on purpose, to make a fast change in current
[20:53:22] <pfred1> from here on in I'm buying all of my PC hardware from this place http://www.superbiiz.com/
[20:53:47] <djdelorie> why?
[20:54:04] <pfred1> I ordered a PSU off them 2 days ago picked free ground shipping its in the machine
[20:54:23] <pfred1> the guy must be down the street from me it got here so fast
[20:54:37] <djdelorie> I get that from newegg, but I might be closer to them than you are
[20:55:00] <djdelorie> for digikey, USPS is faster than UPS because of what zones we're in :-)
[20:56:00] <pfred1> I ordered some caps off mouser it was insane what they charged me for shipping
[20:56:42] <alex4nder> djdelorie: you in california?
[20:56:45] <djdelorie> I talked with the digikey folks about shipping a while back, they charge what they pay, and they have a "USPS first class" option so it's just a few bucks.
[20:56:49] <djdelorie> Er, no? New Hampshire
[20:57:18] <pfred1> I tried to go fishing in new hampshire once
[20:57:33] <pfred1> that was a disaster
[20:57:47] <djdelorie> we're not known for our fishing, I think.
[20:58:00] <pfred1> I was way up I93
[20:58:03] <djdelorie> more for our fall foliage
[20:58:54] <pfred1> I didn't feel like driving all the way to Maine I wanted to go someplace different
[20:59:47] <pfred1> I met these creepy people at this conveinence store attached to a gas station
[21:00:01] <pfred1> I was like I ain't camping out here!
[21:00:40] <pfred1> from what I gathered they were there to buy a flashlight because one of them lost their rucksacks in the woods and it sure sounded to me like they lived in the woods
[21:00:51] <djdelorie> we're not known for our creepy people at gas stations either, though...
[21:01:01] <djdelorie> but we *are known for our camping sites
[21:01:13] <pfred1> this one guy had this scar man it was like the grand canyon
[21:01:25] <pfred1> and he was missing a couple of fingers which he kept on pointing with
[21:01:27] -!- Radium has quit []
[21:01:40] <pfred1> he was saying to me, you must have come up through the cut ...
[21:01:40] <djdelorie> I have a cousin like that. Industrial accident.
[21:01:47] <djdelorie> the notch?
[21:02:00] <pfred1> might have been notch I kind of remember he said cut
[21:02:23] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[21:02:32] -!- kb8wmc [kb8wmc!~chatzilla@nat.mtp.cmsinter.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[21:02:44] <djdelorie> there are two places where the road goes through a notch in the moutain range to get to the north side of them, probably what he was referring to
[21:02:51] <djdelorie> roads
[21:03:10] -!- DJ9DJ has quit [Quit: bye]
[21:03:14] <pfred1> well it was a half baked plan i just got in my car and drove figured I'd find someplace when I got there
[21:03:28] <pfred1> but by the time I got there it was like 2:30 in the morning
[21:04:00] <pfred1> it was a gas station the name of it was all these hypnehated to letters like wa-ko-ma-re
[21:04:06] <djdelorie> next time, either look up the state park system ahead of time, or ask one of the local boy scout troops
[21:05:00] <pfred1> looked like pretty country what I could see of it I'm sure if it was daytime I'd have managed
[21:05:21] <djdelorie> next time you decide to tour NH, ask me first :-)
[21:05:40] <pfred1> usually I go to upstate Maine to Allagash
[21:05:59] <pfred1> that is like another planet
[21:07:16] <pfred1> well now I'm distro shopping I'm tired of Debian I think
[21:07:33] * pfred1 has to decide what to load on this box
[21:07:35] <Tom_itx> :(
[21:07:44] <Tom_itx> what do you have against debian?
[21:07:47] <pfred1> man i can't hack grub2
[21:07:57] <pfred1> or KDE 4
[21:07:59] -!- acemi has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2]
[21:08:08] <djdelorie> Fedora! ;-)
[21:08:14] <pfred1> I need to try to install 3.5.10 on my machine upstairs
[21:08:30] <pfred1> I ran RH from 7.1 to 7.3
[21:08:39] <pfred1> it was the snizzle back then
[21:08:57] <pfred1> if they didn't do that paid subscription for up2date they'd be a lock today
[21:09:22] <pfred1> I mean everyone and their dog ran RH in that window
[21:09:27] <djdelorie> Fedora doesn't charge for updates. You're thinking of RHEL
[21:09:39] <pfred1> this was at the dawn of that
[21:10:23] <pfred1> I bet I still have a defunct box kicking around with an RH7.X install on it
[21:11:15] <pfred1> first i have to try this box with the emc2 iso I have just to see
[21:11:34] <pfred1> right now I'm on a USB stick running Ubuntu 11.10
[21:11:55] <pfred1> I wanted to make sure it could boot off USB
[21:12:37] <pfred1> ack! E: Unable to locate package htop
[21:13:44] <pfred1> so far I like this PC
[21:14:15] <pfred1> I got a sweet deal on an antec PSU for it $34
[21:14:24] <Jymmm> too much!
[21:14:29] <pfred1> gtfo!
[21:14:42] <Jymmm> pfred1: it's $3 TO $4, not $34
[21:14:56] <pfred1> you can go too lowball on PSUs
[21:15:00] -!- FinboySlick has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
[21:15:10] <Jymmm> nah
[21:15:13] <pfred1> I want a seasonic for my i3
[21:15:25] <Jymmm> a waste for an i3 it seems
[21:15:35] <Jymmm> i5 i7 sure, but i3 ?
[21:15:44] <pfred1> well i7s haven't dropped in price enough for me to drop the hammer on one
[21:16:00] <Jymmm> not wirth it even if they did, i5 be it mon!
[21:16:05] <pfred1> to be honest the i3 ain't bad
[21:16:13] <djdelorie> power supplies is one item I spend extra on for good quality, I've been burned in the past
[21:16:18] <Jymmm> kinda a waste
[21:16:23] <djdelorie> OTOH my machines tend to be more power-hungy than average
[21:16:26] <pfred1> I lost two mobos to a bad PSU
[21:16:40] <Jymmm> djdelorie: quit playig with explosives then
[21:16:43] <pfred1> it took me burning out the second one to realize what was going on
[21:17:00] <pfred1> but the thing must have been pumping out so much ripple the mobos couldn't deal with it
[21:17:18] -!- Radium [Radium!~carbon@] has joined #linuxcnc
[21:17:21] <pfred1> I mean they'd run for a bit then blammo
[21:17:34] <djdelorie> heh. six-core i7-EE, 24GB ram, three hard drives, two video cards, a few other cards and optical drives, a bazillion USB things...
[21:17:34] <pfred1> bad PSU means system stress
[21:17:53] <Jymmm> djdelorie: video cards did it!
[21:17:58] <pfred1> with all that RAM what you need SSDs for?
[21:18:11] <Jymmm> pfred1: for when the UPS dies =)
[21:18:24] <pfred1> yeah my power company they don't run Linux
[21:18:31] <djdelorie> they're not SSDs, they're spinny disks. 2.25 TB of spinny disks.
[21:18:34] <pfred1> I had 95 days of uptime boom power off
[21:18:48] -!- iwoj [iwoj!~iwoj@d23-16-234-107.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[21:18:56] <Jymmm> I have 8TB spinny
[21:19:12] <pfred1> don't all the porn look alike after a while?
[21:19:18] <djdelorie> my server has 14TB spinny, this is my desktop I'm talking about
[21:19:21] <pfred1> 8TB?
[21:19:32] <Jymmm> pfred1: This is QUALITY PR)N, not that stuff djdelorie watches
[21:19:44] <pfred1> yeah I guess it is a higher bitrate
[21:19:55] <Jymmm> pfred1: Yeah, and I'm going for 24TB next round.
[21:20:03] * pfred1 likes the low quality sleezy stuff
[21:20:23] <Jymmm> pfred1: and you wonder why it all looks the same
[21:20:26] <djdelorie> I amost didn't go 24TB but I realized I always ending up wanting more memory, so I just got the max the mobo supported right up front. Worth it!
[21:20:43] <Jymmm> djdelorie: 24TB of RAM????????????????????????????????
[21:20:46] <djdelorie> most of my data is huge software build trees
[21:20:50] <Jymmm> TeraBytes
[21:20:55] <djdelorie> 25 GB of ram, 14 TB of disk, sorry.
[21:21:00] <Jymmm> k
[21:21:14] <pfred1> hmmm fedora
[21:21:14] <djdelorie> er, 24G/2T on the desktop, 8G/14T in the server
[21:21:20] <Jymmm> Shit, I'll take 24TB ram in a heartbeat
[21:21:26] <pfred1> I'll have to see what versions of what they're offering
[21:22:13] <pfred1> I have a vid card on order now but it hasn't arrived yet
[21:22:21] <djdelorie> easiest way: go to koji.fedoraproject.org and search for the package you want to check; it will tell you the latest builds for each os version
[21:22:38] <pfred1> thing is i kind of like older versions of some stuff
[21:22:47] <pfred1> like I don't like the new KDE 4.X
[21:22:54] <pfred1> I love 3.5.10
[21:23:06] <djdelorie> F14 has kde4 and F14 is already "no longer supported"
[21:23:24] <djdelorie> it comes with kde3 too as a compatility library
[21:23:25] <pfred1> yeah i might have to go with an offbeat WM like xfce
[21:23:34] <djdelorie> I use fvwm2 still
[21:23:51] <pfred1> heh yeah I used WindowMaker for a long time its kind of abandonware today though
[21:24:00] <pfred1> my linuxcnc machine i use fluxbox
[21:24:16] <pfred1> check this out the ram stick went bad in it and I was running X with 22 MB RAM
[21:24:34] <pfred1> it wasn't running bad either until I tried to fire up firefox
[21:28:56] <pfred1> http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/2250/wedoct27bootchart.png
[21:29:33] -!- vladimirek has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[21:30:03] -!- vladimirek [vladimirek!~vladimire@bband-dyn121.95-103-118.t-com.sk] has joined #linuxcnc
[21:30:20] -!- vladimirek has quit [Client Quit]
[21:40:52] -!- Thetawaves has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep]
[21:42:12] -!- Radium has quit []
[21:46:06] -!- Vq_ [Vq_!~vq@90-227-210-39-no122.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #linuxcnc
[21:46:26] -!- kb8wmc has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
[21:47:29] -!- kent_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
[21:47:31] -!- kb8wmc [kb8wmc!~chatzilla@nat.mtp.cmsinter.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[21:48:37] -!- Vq has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
[21:49:33] -!- kent [kent!~kent@90-227-210-39-no122.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #linuxcnc
[21:51:21] <joe9> pfred1: have you tried xmonad.
[21:51:41] <pfred1> joe9 no what is it?
[21:51:43] <alex4nder> joe9: how's your mill?
[21:52:01] <joe9> i am trying to figure out how to connect the motor to the DB9 connectors. Any schematics that can help me?
[21:52:20] <joe9> alex4nder: wired up the gecko, e-stop switch and psu. they seem to be working fine.
[21:52:37] <joe9> i am about to start soldering the motors to the db-9 connectors.
[21:52:39] <pfred1> gecko has a lot of resources on their website
[21:52:49] <alex4nder> joe9: use the wire color code information you got with your steppers, and then look on the front panel of the G540.. the pinout is listed there.
[21:53:04] <joe9> pfred1: xmonad ~ fvwm2 (a window manager).
[21:53:24] <joe9> alex4nder: ok, thanks.
[21:53:34] <pfred1> I have run fvwm
[21:53:49] <pfred1> and several variants of it
[21:54:06] -!- Fox_Muldr has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
[21:54:28] <pfred1> if fluxbox had some gui config utils I'd be OK with it
[21:54:41] <pfred1> editing the files by hand gets old fast though
[21:55:13] <pfred1> plus i do sort of like desktop shortcuts
[21:55:24] <alex4nder> joe9: also don't forget the resistor.
[21:55:28] -!- kb8wmc has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
[21:55:28] -!- ries has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
[21:55:50] <pfred1> joe9 are you good at soldering?
[21:55:52] -!- Fox_Muldr [Fox_Muldr!quakeman@frnk-4d01d538.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[21:56:34] -!- bedah has quit [Quit: bye]
[21:56:48] <pfred1> if I had to solder a DB9 shell I'd get a sacrificial plug to plug it int oso I didn't overheat the plastic
[21:57:38] <jdhnc> not really needed, just don't be slow.
[21:57:59] <pfred1> an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure
[21:58:14] <djdelorie> use flux, solder faster :-)
[21:58:27] <pfred1> I bench soldered at a board house
[21:58:34] <pfred1> so I am pretty godo at soldering
[21:58:35] -!- ries [ries!~ries@] has joined #linuxcnc
[21:58:46] <djdelorie> well, that ruins all your excuses now ;-)
[21:58:49] <jdhnc> and you can't solder a db9 without an aid? :)
[21:58:50] <pfred1> still doesn't hurt to make sure of things
[21:59:13] <pfred1> depends on the quality of the plastic
[21:59:42] <pfred1> I don't think all connectors roll off the same line even if they did hoppers get filled with different pellets
[22:00:52] <pfred1> plus it isn't really me soldering it
[22:01:20] <joe9> pfred1: i am ok with soldering.
[22:01:24] <pfred1> good
[22:01:55] -!- kb8wmc [kb8wmc!~chatzilla@nat.mtp.cmsinter.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[22:02:40] <pfred1> I have barrier strips for all of my connections
[22:03:23] <joe9> i prefer the wire-nut to barrier strips.
[22:04:03] <pfred1> so just pigtails coming off PCBs?
[22:04:24] <pfred1> I'd imagine it'd be hard to keep them straight
[22:05:34] <joe9> pfred1: not for pcb's. just for normal connections.
[22:05:57] <joe9> alex4nder: i have bipolar motors. I can use the "Bipolar (Parallel) connection", correct?
[22:06:20] <joe9> http://www.kelinginc.net/KL23H276-30-8B.pdf&sa=U&ei=0HN7T-rnFvO70AGo2-TzBQ&ved=0CBEQFjAA&usg=AFQjCNHDPwm90IdysPpE32QJqgOusAIG0w is my motor.
[22:06:21] <pfred1> I would
[22:06:33] -!- Jim_ [Jim_!~jsr@in-184-1-129-79.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[22:06:45] <pfred1> 8 wire motor?
[22:06:51] <joe9> yes.
[22:06:56] <pfred1> yeah go parallel
[22:07:03] <Tom_itx> soldering 101?
[22:07:34] <pfred1> series is higher torque at lower RPM?
[22:07:48] <pfred1> well parallel is higher current
[22:08:42] <pfred1> parallel will net you the highest torque at higher RPM
[22:09:09] <djdelorie> but needs a bigger power supply, of course.
[22:09:15] <joe9> the gecko spec says: pin 6 = phase B motor wire, pin 7 = Phase /B motor wire, pin 8 = Phase A .. and so on.
[22:09:16] <pfred1> well yeah
[22:09:17] <djdelorie> TANSTAAFL
[22:09:40] <pfred1> but it sucks how steppers can't draw current the faster you run them
[22:09:45] <joe9> the motor spec says "Blue and Yellow to A+"
[22:09:48] <joe9> and, so on.
[22:10:05] <joe9> that would mean pin 8 = Blue + Yellow wires?
[22:10:32] <pfred1> you should have 4 connections A Aprime B and Bprime
[22:10:40] <djdelorie> pfred1: basic electronics. The higher the frequency you put through an inductor, the more of a resistor it becomes, and thus reduces available power
[22:10:56] <pfred1> djdelorie I thought it had to do with dumping the flux
[22:11:07] <pfred1> you just keep on reducing your dwell time
[22:11:12] <pfred1> the faster you run
[22:11:25] <djdelorie> that's why max RPM is tied to the voltage, not the current - more voltage means you can change the current, and thus flux, faster.
[22:11:31] <joe9> pfred1: all 8 wires of the motor go only to 4 pins of the DB-9 connector.
[22:11:47] <pfred1> joe9 you're going to use all 8 wires 4 pairs
[22:11:58] <joe9> 1 and 5 pins is just the current set resistor.. and the other pins are NC
[22:12:21] <pfred1> djdelorie yeah I only run 24V
[22:12:32] <joe9> pfred1: yes, 4 pairs, and 1 pair to 1 pin.
[22:12:43] <pfred1> I love my TB6560AHQs though
[22:12:46] <joe9> i have a 48V psu.
[22:13:00] <joe9> pfred1: 1 pair to 1 pin, correct?
[22:13:09] <pfred1> joe9 yes
[22:13:18] <joe9> pfred1: thanks.
[22:13:31] <Tom_itx> pfred1, would the heat off the steppers increase alot going from 24 to 48v?
[22:13:32] <pfred1> yeah pralallel is way better than series
[22:13:45] <pfred1> Tom_itx it shouldn't same current
[22:13:49] <Tom_itx> hmm
[22:13:55] <Tom_itx> just better response?
[22:13:55] <joe9> and, according to the terminology, /B == B- ?
[22:14:03] <Tom_itx> maybe i should finish my psu
[22:14:22] <pfred1> that is the beauty of PWM choppers
[22:14:40] <Tom_itx> i still need to get those too
[22:14:52] <Tom_itx> i have the original ones but i have no specs on them
[22:14:59] <djdelorie> Tom: on my controllers, voltage is used only to change current, it's current that's managed. More voltage only means I can change the current faster, max current is still limited to the same value
[22:15:13] <Tom_itx> djdelorie, that's my take on it
[22:15:23] <Tom_itx> just double checking
[22:15:29] <pfred1> djdelorie yeah but my motor drivers only cost $10 a piece :)
[22:15:44] <Tom_itx> so would i expect a decent performance increase?
[22:15:48] -!- micges has quit [Quit: Leaving]
[22:15:49] <djdelorie> Even a 24v supply on my motors can max out the current, if they're moving slow enough. At 60V I'm limited to about 1500 RPM, at 120V it's closer to 3,000 RPM, etc.
[22:16:04] <Tom_itx> going from a 24v ~3A supply to a 45v 18A one?
[22:16:06] <djdelorie> even cheap controllers should do current limiting, though.
[22:16:13] <pfred1> I can crack 2,600 RPM at 24V
[22:16:32] <pfred1> but I only have usable torque to 800
[22:17:05] <pfred1> that is the rub with steppers
[22:17:06] <djdelorie> yeah, the big advantage to servos is I get max torque all the way up to 3,000 RPM before it starts significantly dropping off
[22:17:15] <joe9> alex4nder: wondering if you found it easy to solder the resistor first and then the wires?
[22:17:23] <pfred1> yup steppers max torque stopped servos max torque max speed
[22:17:31] <joe9> alex4nder: or, if you just did the wires first and then the resistors.
[22:17:44] <djdelorie> pfred1: er, I can max torque at near-stopped too
[22:18:01] <Tom_itx> they cost more than steppers too
[22:18:13] <pfred1> djdelorie it isn't very useful though
[22:18:29] <pfred1> hold unless you have ballscrews is eh
[22:18:44] <pfred1> acme holds pretty good all by itself
[22:18:57] <djdelorie> yeah, they're expensive. Right, no torque if you're not moving :-) but when they're holding position, I need a pipe wrench to move them even a tiny bit
[22:19:44] <pfred1> djdelorie your drivers are really nice but I think you're going to find lead screw limitations
[22:19:46] <djdelorie> specs say 340 oz-in up to 2500 RPM, then it drops linearly to zero at 5,000 RPM
[22:19:52] <djdelorie> well YEAH
[22:20:02] <joe9> my stepper motors has a current/phase of 2.1 A in series and 4.2A in parallel.
[22:20:22] <pfred1> joe9 thats nice what ohms and uH are they?
[22:20:30] <joe9> the gecko g540 spec says that anything over 3.5A, will lose some power.
[22:20:32] <djdelorie> top speed at the moment seems to be limited by how fast the screws can turn before they start resonating
[22:20:46] <joe9> or, will not be working at the maximum efficiency.
[22:20:53] <djdelorie> 3.5A through parallel is still more torque than 2.1A through series
[22:20:58] <pfred1> djdelorie yes you need fixed 2 ends for max lead speed
[22:21:09] <djdelorie> hmm, or is it? maybe not
[22:21:18] <pfred1> djdelorie I found out something interesting putting bearings on my leads too
[22:21:31] <joe9> series: resistance/phase = 1.84 Ohms, Inductance/Phase = 8.8mH, Holding torque = 282 Oz-In
[22:21:37] <pfred1> don't get bearings that fit right on your threaded rod
[22:21:45] <djdelorie> I have bearings on both ends. It's the sections between the bearings and the nut that go harmonic on me
[22:21:48] <pfred1> get sleeves that fit then bearings that fit over your sleeves
[22:21:48] <joe9> parallel: resistance/phase = 0.46 Ohms, Inductance/Phase = 2.2mH, Holding torque = 282 Oz-In
[22:21:59] <pfred1> because threads have pitch
[22:22:22] <pfred1> something I didn't take into account
[22:22:27] <djdelorie> the rods have milled ends with matched bearings, no problem.
[22:22:32] <joe9> pfred1: in this situation (with these motors), is it better to use bipolar series instead?
[22:22:39] <pfred1> means bearings that fit right on your threaded rod won't be axial with it
[22:23:07] <pfred1> joe9 parallel always better than series
[22:23:16] <djdelorie> what I need is larger diameter screws
[22:23:21] <joe9> oh, ok, thanks.
[22:23:27] <djdelorie> pfred1: in this case, is that true?
[22:23:28] <pfred1> djdelorie you need multistart
[22:23:38] <djdelorie> pfred1: Y is four-start
[22:23:50] <pfred1> it runs fast too right?
[22:24:03] <pfred1> without the rod going berserk
[22:24:06] <djdelorie> the screw has a max RPM because of its diameter and length
[22:24:31] <djdelorie> it's 2 revs per inch, that moves plenty fast. X is the slow one; it's 10 turns per inch
[22:24:33] <pfred1> or just run timing belts
[22:24:47] <pfred1> I'm telling you we don't need the resolution that threads give
[22:25:09] <pfred1> shopbots use racks and pinions
[22:25:36] <pfred1> serpentime timing belts poor man's way though
[22:25:37] <djdelorie> it's what we had available, it's all surplus
[22:26:01] -!- Thetawaves [Thetawaves!~Thetawave@7-139-42-72.gci.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[22:26:15] <pfred1> djdelorie what size bed is your machine?
[22:26:23] <djdelorie> but X is a thicker screw, it can handle the RPMs. That's the one I need to configure the steps/rot down to speed it up.
[22:26:35] <djdelorie> working area is about 24x30 inches
[22:27:03] <pfred1> oh you won't even hit full acceleration
[22:27:06] <djdelorie> next one will be bigger and probably belt driven
[22:27:37] <pfred1> something you can get a 4x8 sheet into seems ideal
[22:27:45] <djdelorie> exactly :-)
[22:27:56] <djdelorie> "and folds for easy storage" :-)
[22:27:59] <pfred1> though my plan is to have a machine i can put on a sheet
[22:28:36] <djdelorie> it was suggested I got for a vertical bed - 8ft long, 4ft high, 1ft thick. But the parts tend to fall off once they're cut
[22:29:09] <pfred1> it is too bad les watts doesn't still hang out here
[22:29:15] <pfred1> he has a sweet machine
[22:29:32] <pfred1> he's a total kook
[22:30:17] <pfred1> aww he sold his domain and everything
[22:31:26] <pfred1> I think i may have archived his stuff someplace
[22:31:43] * pfred1 doesn't trust the Internet ...
[22:32:04] -!- mhaberler has quit [Quit: mhaberler]
[22:34:23] <djdelorie> www.archive.org ?
[22:36:32] <pfred1> seemingly not
[22:36:59] <pfred1> he had a woodworking company and made these religious plaques
[22:37:12] <pfred1> not that he was religious mind you they were just good sellers
[22:37:36] <pfred1> but he wasn't messing around when it came to performance
[22:38:02] <pfred1> I have to say the machine he built looked like he bought it
[22:38:10] <djdelorie> in business, time is money
[22:38:33] <pfred1> last i saw him he was complaining he was getting tired of rebuilding PC routers
[22:38:46] <pfred1> he'd burn the bearings up in them
[22:38:57] <djdelorie> in a cnc machine?
[22:39:01] <pfred1> yup
[22:39:15] <pfred1> routers really aren't built to run all day
[22:39:32] <pfred1> not even $300 ones
[22:39:44] <djdelorie> wonder why he didn't switch to a real spindle
[22:39:58] <pfred1> that was what he was in the process of doing
[22:40:11] <pfred1> then he went back into industry
[22:40:24] <pfred1> he designed spray guns
[22:40:40] <pfred1> like for Binks and Devilbiss
[22:41:16] <pfred1> which today is the same company i believe
[22:41:46] <pfred1> though I'm not sure if that is what he got back into doing
[22:42:28] <pfred1> he knew his mechanics that is for sure
[22:42:57] <pfred1> he had this crazy anti backlash thing he made
[22:43:25] -!- kb8wmc has quit [Quit: ChatZilla [Firefox 11.0/20120310193829]]
[22:43:31] <pfred1> and he had his lead screws preloaded
[22:43:47] <pfred1> to run them really fast you have to do that
[22:44:47] <pfred1> heck he would always go on and on about how he had his lead screws error mapped
[22:44:59] <alex4nder> joe9: I bought DB9 PCBs with built-in potentiometers from soigeneris
[22:45:28] <alex4nder> but if you've got a 1/4 watt carbon resistor, I'd solder the wires first.
[22:45:56] <pfred1> small parts first then big ones
[22:46:38] <pfred1> usually works best for me
[22:46:56] <alex4nder> I think the wires qualify as the smaller part, when soldering to a d-sub connector
[22:47:36] <pfred1> alex4nder short wires then :)
[22:48:08] <alex4nder> no, they're just a pain in the ass to solder
[22:48:08] <pfred1> man i am loving this PC I need to install an OS to it
[22:48:34] <pfred1> I use angled work tweesers to solder wires to connection rows
[22:48:47] <pfred1> everything tinned it goes quickly
[22:49:27] <Thetawaves> if anybody is looking for an 'industrial' avr board, hit me up
[22:49:56] <alex4nder> pfred1: how much do you charge? maybe joe9 should send his steppers to you
[22:50:54] <pfred1> alex4nder a beer an hour
[22:51:12] <alex4nder> shit, that's cheap
[22:51:25] <pfred1> you didn't ask me what beers I like
[22:51:47] <alex4nder> ...
[22:52:42] <pfred1> alex4nder this is my workbench http://www.instructables.com/id/Pauls-Electronics-Pit/
[22:53:13] <alex4nder> what, no x-ray or stereo microscope
[22:53:32] <Tom_itx> that's entirely too friggin neat
[22:53:41] -!- micges [micges!~micges@dcd190.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #linuxcnc
[22:53:42] * Thetawaves should post pictures
[22:53:45] <pfred1> heh I only use bigger parts I used to have to do SMT at an old job so I refuse to do it today
[22:53:48] <djdelorie> half my office is electronics workbench, but I think you have more usable space on yours...
[22:54:18] <pfred1> I have a magnifying glass on an arm
[22:54:38] <Tom_itx> me too
[22:54:46] <Tom_itx> i use it for a lamp for my binocular scope
[22:54:58] <djdelorie> I use an OptiVisor, but I *also* have a lighted magnifier on an arm. Both have weak lenses, so I can use them together for really good close-ups
[22:55:25] <pfred1> djdelorie I wear reading glasses for anything close today old age
[22:55:44] <djdelorie> my optivisor is getting closer to reading glasses every day :-P
[22:55:51] <pfred1> yuppers
[22:56:11] <pfred1> its funny i think I can see but I really can't
[22:56:26] <pfred1> like try to read the date on a dime
[22:57:23] <pfred1> I used to be able to but those days are gone now
[22:58:40] <pfred1> I need another USB key
[22:59:01] <pfred1> well, I have another one but it has some data on it
[23:01:20] -!- sumpfralle1 has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
[23:01:55] <pfred1> you might have run Debian too long when you issue the command sudo apt-get install food when you're hungry
[23:02:11] <JT-Shop> lol
[23:03:21] * JT-Shop needs a sand blaster cabinet
[23:03:42] <pfred1> no. you need a media blaster cabinet
[23:03:54] <JT-Shop> ok, talk to me then
[23:04:03] <pfred1> sand blasting is what yo udo when you drive in Daytona
[23:04:03] <JT-Shop> glass beads?
[23:04:10] <JT-Shop> LOL
[23:04:17] <JT-Shop> or west texas
[23:04:18] <alex4nder> depends on what you're blasting
[23:04:25] <JT-Shop> steel usually
[23:04:48] <JT-Shop> mill scale usually
[23:05:04] <pfred1> I thought that was removed by pickling?
[23:05:24] <JT-Shop> could be but what a mess
[23:05:52] <pfred1> when I worked in a machine shop we used to just degrease the bar stock
[23:06:26] <pfred1> I had a spray bottle of some crap spritz it on and wipe it off with a shop cloth
[23:06:51] -!- sumpfralle [sumpfralle!~lars@31-16-21-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #linuxcnc
[23:06:51] <pfred1> we sent everything out to be heat treated though
[23:08:26] <pfred1> you use hot rolled?
[23:08:42] <pfred1> CRS is a lot cleaner
[23:09:37] <pfred1> come to think about it we might have used CRS
[23:10:15] <pfred1> it was still scaly as I can recall
[23:10:57] <pfred1> that break down band saw they had still blows my mind
[23:11:30] <pfred1> it sawed through the bar stock like it was pine
[23:11:57] <pfred1> I mean if I'd never seen it I'd never have believed it
[23:12:22] <JT-Shop> I use both hot roll and cold roll
[23:12:36] <pfred1> cold is more internally stressed
[23:12:42] <JT-Shop> yea
[23:13:11] <JT-Shop> blasting will give a more uniform surface after sanding etc and a better grip for painting
[23:14:23] <pfred1> maybe when our parts got sent out they were surfaced when they came back they did look good black oxide finished mostly
[23:15:08] <pfred1> for what we charged they'd better look good
[23:15:50] <pfred1> I should have lifted a lot more stuff from there
[23:16:06] * pfred1 was too young and honest back then ...
[23:17:19] <JT-Shop> lol
[23:17:41] <pfred1> oh come on we had bins with thousands of the stuff who was going to miss a few?
[23:18:11] <JT-Shop> Johnny Cash wrote a song about that
[23:18:26] <pfred1> plus the place was a total scam anyways
[23:18:57] <JT-Shop> when I worked in the ship yard I would pick up fastners off of the floor... I have quite a collection of SS nuts and bolts from that part of my life
[23:19:02] <pfred1> back then we were buying chinese centers and rebuilding them then selling them like we made them
[23:19:12] <JT-Shop> centers?
[23:19:18] <pfred1> lathe centers
[23:19:25] <JT-Shop> ah
[23:19:31] <pfred1> we'd make the big custome ones but not the regular sizes
[23:19:49] <JT-Shop> so some nut wants to use his ipad to control his cnc machine on the forum
[23:19:55] <pfred1> they were getting them off harbor freight
[23:20:04] <JT-Shop> what a place that is
[23:20:32] <pfred1> randy would take them apart and put them back together again he basically did QC and that was it
[23:22:25] <pfred1> that whole shop was an anachronism just kept going for the old man the diamond business kept it going
[23:22:54] <pfred1> we were there as fixtures decoraitons
[23:23:46] <djdelorie> I saw a TV show about a store that was so big, it had a machine shop with a full time staff just to keep the animatronic displays working
[23:24:16] <pfred1> this shop in its hey day had 40 machinists when I was there there were 7 of us
[23:24:29] <pfred1> they had machine rooms no one even went into anymore
[23:24:57] <pfred1> one day the foreman took me into one of them just to show me around
[23:25:19] <pfred1> wall to wall idle machines
[23:26:11] <pfred1> I think he expected me to pick out a few to take home or something
[23:26:18] <djdelorie> AND? AND?
[23:26:25] <pfred1> well it didn't dawn on me then
[23:26:56] <pfred1> but those machines were never going to ever do anything again
[23:27:10] <pfred1> no one would have missed any of them if they were gone
[23:27:39] <pfred1> it was a bizarre place
[23:27:55] <pfred1> and the son what a total scumbag he was
[23:28:38] <pfred1> he'd come in on Monday morning bragging how he burned 300 gallons of gas in his boat going up the lake and back
[23:28:50] <JT-Shop> the son?
[23:29:14] <pfred1> yeah see the old man Henry he was 84 his son was no youngster either he kind of "ran" the company
[23:29:22] <pfred1> more like ran it into the ground
[23:29:53] -!- CncGabe [CncGabe!48a14b52@gateway/web/freenode/ip.] has joined #linuxcnc
[23:29:55] <pfred1> henry didn't know where he was half the time I mean the guy was 84
[23:30:11] -!- CncGabe has quit [Client Quit]
[23:30:20] <pfred1> he'd still load vises onto mill tables though
[23:30:38] <pfred1> one day I saw him doing it I ran over i was like Henry let me give you a hand with that
[23:30:42] -!- WCMD [WCMD!48a14b52@gateway/web/freenode/ip.] has joined #linuxcnc
[23:31:06] <WCMD> hey everybody!
[23:31:06] <pfred1> I mean like a 150 pound milling vise
[23:31:21] <pfred1> hey!
[23:31:30] * djdelorie has an engine hoist in his basement for stuff like that
[23:31:43] <pfred1> djdelorie old Henry was old school
[23:32:00] <pfred1> when the guy got a metal splinter he'd grind it out
[23:32:02] <Tom_itx> yeah you young whipper snapper
[23:32:08] <djdelorie> for the really big stuff, I have friends... http://www.delorie.com/photos/southbend-lathe/img_2418.html
[23:33:21] <djdelorie> Best comment from him: "that thing weighs more than you think..." - his excavator had a hard time picking it up
[23:33:49] <pfred1> it looks like a small one
[23:34:00] <djdelorie> excavator? Yeah.
[23:34:22] <WCMD> does anyone know if this parallel card will work with linuxCNC? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815158303
[23:34:40] <pfred1> that was what I did when I left machine work I went into construction
[23:34:47] -!- Valen [Valen!~Valen@2001:44b8:3199:9100:21e:8cff:fe63:55df] has joined #linuxcnc
[23:35:00] <pfred1> WCMD the rosewill is really nice
[23:35:27] <djdelorie> he did like the fact that my bulkhead has removable stairs, though... picked them up, set them on the lawn, dropped the lathe in onto the dolly...
[23:36:09] <WCMD> pfred1 im looking for one without the back panel
[23:36:27] <pfred1> WCMD how will it fit a case?
[23:36:31] <djdelorie> er, no dolly, that was the other item, the lathe went onto the floor until we picked it up with the hoist
[23:37:27] <JT-Shop> there is a FAQ on parallel port cards on the Forum
[23:37:31] <pfred1> plus the card ends are just riveted on anyways i guess they all come off i modified a vid card here once
[23:38:02] <pfred1> JT-Shop someone here bought a couple before I bought mine they said the rosewill looked nicer so it is the one i got and it does seem like a nice card to me
[23:38:12] <djdelorie> hey look! there's a forum too! ;-)
[23:38:27] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, does you iphone have an app for linuxcnc yet :)
[23:38:36] <pfred1> but yeah the ysay which chip to get
[23:38:40] <Tom_itx> noticed the forum comment...
[23:38:43] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx, no
[23:39:10] <pfred1> OK time to boot linuxcnc on this box
[23:39:18] <WCMD> +g(pfred1) internally
[23:39:24] <WCMD> how do you send a private message
[23:39:29] <pfred1> /msg
[23:39:44] <KimK> Pardon me for just a moment, gents:
[23:39:50] <KimK> For those who are interested in downloading the new ISO (not needed just to upgrade) a torrent link is available here: http://linuxtracker.org/index.php?page=torrent-details&id=58c3d84f5124725969bbbc24b1c8cad291ebbcb4 Please remember to help seed after you have downloaded. Thanks!
[23:40:03] <KimK> Thanks gents, please continue!
[23:40:11] <WCMD> Thank you!
[23:40:19] * pfred1 has the iso in his hot little hands ...
[23:40:26] -!- rob_h has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
[23:40:42] <pfred1> it's in the drive!
[23:41:29] <pfred1> hmmm Ubuntu 8.04 I thought I had a newer one?
[23:42:24] <pfred1> I guess i should get the latest and try it out huh?
[23:43:03] <djdelorie> KimK: no peers yet ?
[23:43:50] <djdelorie> there's one!
[23:45:39] <pfred1> how come we don't have a torrent option for the iso image?
[23:46:51] <pfred1> that is usually my preferred method for snagging isos anymore I hate to be a drain on one server
[23:47:04] -!- Tom_L [Tom_L!~Tl@unaffiliated/toml/x-013812] has joined #linuxcnc
[23:47:52] <djdelorie> KimK: is it the same file as the iso on the download page? it would be much faster for me to download, *then* start torrent, to help seed...
[23:48:51] <pfred1> KimK I'll do that on my other box so I can seed
[23:49:05] -!- pfred1 has quit [Quit: switching systems]
[23:50:03] -!- pfred1 [pfred1!~pfred1@unaffiliated/pfred1] has joined #linuxcnc
[23:50:17] <pfred1> would someone be so kind as to paste that torrent link again?
[23:50:26] <djdelorie> http://linuxtracker.org/index.php?page=torrent-details&id=58c3d84f5124725969bbbc24b1c8cad291ebbcb4
[23:50:30] <pfred1> ta
[23:50:34] <KimK> djdelorie: Yes, same file, thanks, others have done that to help
[23:51:04] <KimK> pfred1: Thanks, all seeding help appreciated
[23:51:47] <pfred1> KimK I have a 217 share for mplayer's essentials file :)
[23:52:09] <Valen> what is tihs iso for?
[23:52:26] <pfred1> the latest linuxcnc
[23:52:27] <Tom_itx> 2.5 i believe
[23:52:32] <Valen> ahh
[23:52:36] -!- mozmck [mozmck!~moses@client-] has joined #linuxcnc
[23:52:38] <Valen> not using 12.04? ;->
[23:52:38] <pfred1> well latest iso
[23:52:52] * Valen ducks and runs off
[23:53:07] <pfred1> I just want to see what that system is like if i like it I'll do a custom build but i want to know today not next week
[23:54:00] <Valen> what 12.04 is like?
[23:54:19] <pfred1> Valen I donno i was just running 11.10 live and hating it
[23:54:29] <Valen> yeah unity is pretty crap
[23:54:33] <KimK> Valen: You're running 12.04? Just sim? What kernel?
[23:54:41] <mozmck> heh, I don't much like unity or gnome3
[23:54:47] <pfred1> Valen I had to google how to bring up a terminal
[23:54:48] <Valen> no, i'm not running anything like that lol
[23:54:58] <Valen> i had to google how to turn my damn computer off
[23:55:08] <pfred1> that i figured out
[23:55:16] <Valen> i might be thinking 11.04
[23:55:25] <pfred1> but I felt like such a goof having to look up how to get a terminal
[23:55:42] <Valen> you had to hold shift to get a shutdown option when clicking on the power icon
[23:55:48] <djdelorie> when my wife got her new smart phone, about a week later she came to me and asked "how do I make a phone call on this thing?"
[23:55:53] <Valen> sorry clicking on your name
[23:55:58] -!- Nick001-Shop has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
[23:56:03] <djdelorie> I though that was a dumb question until I realized they didn't put a dialer button on the main screen
[23:56:17] <mozmck> If you haven't looked at xfce (xubuntu) lately it's pretty good now.
[23:56:19] <Valen> to be fair, making phone calls is what i use my phone for least ;->
[23:56:33] <Valen> thing is i use gvfs a whole bunch
[23:56:37] <pfred1> djdelorie the big mistake it to think there is any logic to technology it is all made by people
[23:56:44] <JT-Shop> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IpEnsdXwFM
[23:56:56] <djdelorie> well, it did take her a *week* to realize there was no dial button
[23:57:58] <Valen> 12.04 beta was kinda ok
[23:58:16] <Valen> but i haven't tried it on my dual monitor setup yet
[23:58:23] <Valen> I also dislike the all in one bar
[23:58:38] <pfred1> Valen I think the video card I'm getting can do that
[23:58:50] <Valen> having to learn every applications way of opening multiple monitors sucks
[23:59:14] <pfred1> JT-Shop I like how Dean is smoking a filtered cigarette
[23:59:41] <JT-Shop> it is a classic for sure
[23:59:50] <JT-Shop> with a few mistakes