#linuxcnc | Logs for 2012-03-26

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[00:24:15] <ssi> flood coolant works
[00:24:19] <ssi> without burning a GPIO
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[00:25:59] <frysteev_> wooo
[00:26:09] <frysteev_> almost got my machine going
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[00:47:12] <ssi> I'm short one wire thru the machine
[00:48:52] <pedro> wireless?
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[00:51:52] <ssi> I'm able to reuse the existing wires that used to run the contactors for the motor run signals
[00:52:03] <ssi> but I need one extra wire to carry a +10 analog for speed control
[00:53:21] <pedro> well it probably should be a twisted pair so you will probably need to pull some more wires anyway
[00:53:39] <ssi> I don't know that I can pull wires tbh
[00:53:56] <ssi> well maybe I can remove everything that's in there and repull
[00:54:03] <ssi> using smaller gauge for the stuff that is no longer AC
[00:55:56] <pedro> what were the contactors used for?
[00:57:33] <pedro> ( wondering what EStop circuitry still exists)
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[01:13:06] <djdelorie> http://www.delorie.com/photos/cnc/20120325-cnc-fractal.html
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[01:13:31] <djdelorie> photo of the pencil holder drawing spirals: http://www.delorie.com/photos/cnc/img_2597.html
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[01:13:54] <cradek> slick!
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[01:14:59] <djdelorie> the crappy paper doesn't do the image justice, though.
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[01:15:28] <djdelorie> smoother paper and a sharper pencil would have been better, but I was in a hurry to see results :-)
[01:15:30] <cradek> you can see the shape, and that it came back to the same spot at the end...
[01:16:02] <djdelorie> start/stop was in the lower left, yeah, I seem to have gotten the EMI issues worked around for now - until the ferrites show up
[01:20:58] <cradek> yay, congrats
[01:21:04] <cradek> encoder noise can really be a pain
[01:21:35] <djdelorie> actually, the encoder circuitry worked fine. The encoders I've got have differential signals, I massaged them into LVDS and ran it through a receiver chip. *That* part works fine.
[01:21:49] <djdelorie> It was the step pulses that were getting EMI! Stupid machine would just slowly drift aside...
[01:21:59] <djdelorie> plus the USB port for configuring would self-reset
[01:23:12] <djdelorie> turns out my parallel port can drive pretty strongly, so I put 1K terminators on the controller end, cleaned it all up
[01:26:53] <ssi> pedro: the contactors were coolant run, spindle fwd, spindle rev
[01:27:19] <ssi> estop was all handled by the fact that all the contactors were enabled off of 120VAC which fed through a master control relay
[01:27:56] <ssi> anyway, I pulled the three 12ga stranded lines that ran the contactors and pulled a piece of CAT6 in their place
[01:29:16] <ssi> djdelorie: nice koch curve btw :)
[01:29:30] <djdelorie> it's one of the linuxcnc examples
[01:29:46] <ssi> ah
[01:30:09] <pedro> DC drives always scare me a little as they are more likely to run-away with a fault
[01:30:09] <djdelorie> here's the spirals example, also showing the motors in action: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0T55NAHmqg
[01:30:11] <pedro> is there a contactor on the servo 90VDC transformer?
[01:31:29] <djdelorie> the lighting in my shop is actually a lot better than the movies show, but the camera doesn't like the "daylight" colored florescent bulbs
[01:32:04] <djdelorie> and here's the Z axis in action: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49MVv92O3-k
[01:32:58] <ssi> pedro: nope, and the 90vdc transformer is in the control cabinet, not in the lathe
[01:33:29] <ssi> pedro: however, I do have the servo enables connected to my machine-enabled signal, and whenever I get a limit fault it shuts the drives down hard
[01:34:28] <ssi> or a ferror fault for that matter
[01:34:44] <ssi> pedro: so what are my next steps for tuning anyway
[01:36:27] <pedro> HALScope
[01:38:14] <ssi> ok...
[01:43:04] <ssi> I'm really not sure how to make halscope display anything useful
[01:43:09] <ssi> I've got it up with both axes ferrors
[01:43:20] <ssi> and sometimes the lines do something other than flat, but usually it goes off the screen
[01:43:53] <pedro> I would add the commanded position
[01:44:21] <ssi> joint-pos-cmd?
[01:45:00] <pedro> whatever connects to PID.N.command
[01:45:35] <ssi> motor-pos-cmd
[01:45:36] <ssi> ok
[01:46:45] <ssi> and ferror? or fb
[01:47:35] <pedro> pid.n.error will do (not sure if this sis different from FE)
[01:48:46] <ssi> ok so I'm looking at pid.x.command and pid.x.error
[01:48:56] <ssi> so what's the object of this game
[01:49:04] <ssi> to minimize the error I know, but what's the best way to go about it
[01:49:51] <pedro> now you do some moves and look at the error
[01:50:25] <ssi> on rapids, it's like 30m
[01:50:39] <pedro> 30 meters!
[01:50:40] <ssi> I have the error channel on 10m/div and it goes about 3 divs opposite the command
[01:50:49] <ssi> 30 millisomethings
[01:50:53] <ssi> mv? not sure what the units are
[01:51:21] <pedro> can you set P higher without buzzing
[01:51:37] <ssi> that's about as high as it wants to be
[01:51:39] <ssi> I'm at 270
[01:51:45] <ssi> at 300 I get occasional buzzing after a move
[01:52:23] <ssi> 280 I get a slight amount of buzzing once in awhile, but it damps itself out
[01:52:25] <pedro> What is your output scale
[01:52:38] <ssi> 10
[01:53:09] <pedro> ok so max speed as I recall was 4 ips?
[01:53:14] <ssi> yep
[01:53:25] <ssi> actually that axis is running 3ips max
[01:53:39] <ssi> lemme set it to 4 just to be consistent
[01:53:55] <ssi> I also don't have any FF1 in
[01:53:58] <pedro> ok try setting FF1 to 2.5 (be careful my math may be wayyyy off)
[01:54:00] <Thetawaves> i gave up trying to plug the leaks in my coolant setup, so i just put it in a tote :D
[01:55:15] <ssi> oh wow that made the error much smaller
[01:55:45] <ssi> on a long 4ips move the error got as high as 10 millisomethings
[01:55:52] <ssi> but it was 40 before
[01:56:04] <pedro> now tweak is until you zero the error during long moves
[01:56:15] <pedro> tweak it
[01:57:16] <ssi> just tweak the FF1 I assume
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[01:57:47] <pedro> yes
[02:00:49] <ssi> ok here's something odd
[02:00:56] <ssi> on negative moves, the error stays pretty flat and small
[02:01:01] <ssi> on positive moves, it ramps up
[02:02:06] <pedro> ramps up with velocity?
[02:02:46] <ssi> doesn't seem to be
[02:02:51] <ssi> seems like it's a linear ramp with position
[02:04:25] <ssi> it's definitely pretty close
[02:05:17] <pedro> you mean theres and error that varies with position even when stopped?
[02:05:30] <ssi> no...
[02:05:48] <ssi> I mean that while the axis is moving 4ips, the error is ramping linearly
[02:06:24] <ssi> I interpreted "ramps up with velocity" to mean error increased while the axis was accelerating, but was a constant offset at speed
[02:06:29] <ssi> and that's not how it's behaving
[02:07:40] <pedro> well if it ramps up ,when does it ramp down (since its not there when stopped)
[02:08:03] <ssi> as soon as it finishes the move, error goes back to zero
[02:08:18] <ssi> maybe I can capture something in halscope
[02:08:32] <pedro> maybe you should plot velocity as well
[02:09:04] <ssi> would that be command-deriv?
[02:09:44] <pedro> I think its one of the motion pins
[02:10:51] <ssi> I have no idea how to use halscope effectively
[02:10:56] <ssi> trying to capture something that I can show you
[02:11:21] <pedro> is there a symmetry adjustment in the drive?, sounds like positive and negative gains are different
[02:11:38] <ssi> I don't have an answer for that right now
[02:11:49] <ssi> I also don't know how much error is "acceptable"
[02:12:11] <pedro> error is in inches
[02:12:40] <ssi> ah ok
[02:12:49] <ssi> so I'm under 0.010" error in the bad direction
[02:12:53] <ssi> and better than that in the good direction
[02:13:15] <pedro> its should be much better
[02:13:21] <ssi> 0.002" in the negative direction
[02:13:39] <ssi> I can't find any values of FF1 that make it better
[02:13:47] <ssi> varying around from about 2.6 seem to make it worse
[02:13:52] <ssi> but I really don't fully understand what FF1 does
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[02:15:49] <ssi> at 2.4 negative moves are under 5 tenths
[02:16:01] <ssi> and the noise in the error signal is more than the actual error
[02:16:37] <pedro> your drives are velocity mode drives
[02:16:39] <pedro> FF1 basically copies the commanded velocity to the PID output
[02:16:41] <pedro> so when EMC commands a 1 IPS move the analog output is set to the voltage the generates 1 IPS
[02:16:43] <pedro> (before any feedback is even applied)
[02:17:05] <pedro> thats a huge amount of noise
[02:17:21] <pedro> probably related to the overdriven resolver
[02:17:25] <ssi> yeah perhaps
[02:17:47] <ssi> I suppose I should table this until I get the new '49 in place
[02:19:15] <pedro> the resolver is capable of about 15 bit resolution. overdriven as it is I expect you are getting about 4 bit resolution
[02:20:21] <pedro> actually if you have 1/2 mill of noise thats 1/40 of a turn so 5.2 or so bits
[02:22:11] <ssi> makes sense
[02:23:04] <pedro> it does sound like you have some assymetry somewhere
[02:23:06] <pedro> I would go through the drive adjustments if you have a helpful manual
[02:23:08] <pedro> at the minimum I would adjust the drive offset (tie its inputs together, enable and adjust for no drift)
[02:24:35] <pedro> also check that the analog outputs for symmetry
[02:24:37] <pedro> another thing to check is the tach
[02:24:59] <ssi> Nick001 told me that the X axis tach in particular tends to get crapped up with oil
[02:25:06] <ssi> and X is what I was testing
[02:26:32] <pedro> I'd at least take a look
[02:26:34] <pedro> some of these things would be easier to test/verify with the motors decoupled
[02:27:14] <ssi> I'm not sure how easy it is to decouple the motor and still have the tachs and resolvers driven
[02:27:48] <pedro> (that is the motors should run at the same speed with a given input voltage in either direction)
[02:28:55] <pedro> (you would not need the resolvers to test this)
[02:29:33] <ssi> ah
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[02:34:51] <frysteev_> bagh no go on making th machin mo ve
[02:35:09] <ssi> aw why
[02:35:46] <frysteev_> the plc wants to talk to all of the machine, not just what i have setup,
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[02:39:06] <frysteev_> sooo wish i had emc control of it
[02:42:47] <pedro> bbl popcorn/movie time
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[03:10:50] <alex4nder> hey
[03:12:40] <ssi> frysteev_: make it happen
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[03:18:06] <pedro> ssi just thought of something, you should probably test at 3 IPS as 4 IPS is at the limits of your machine
[03:18:19] <ssi> pedro: fair enough
[03:18:35] <pedro> back to movie
[03:18:37] <ssi> actually beyond the limit
[03:18:42] <ssi> the amps want 8.5V max
[03:18:48] <ssi> and 4ips I think is 10v
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[04:43:11] <ssi> hrm
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[04:51:20] <Tecan> anyone got a kernel for 11.04 ?
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[04:52:51] <Arduno> Hi
[04:53:07] <ssi> djdelorie: around?
[04:53:13] <djdelorie> yup
[04:53:30] <ssi> care to help me puzzle out how I need to switch this vfd?
[04:53:32] <Arduno> looking for help on graster
[04:53:39] <ssi> you're smart about things :)
[04:53:56] <djdelorie> sure, toss some data my way :-)
[04:54:01] <Arduno> whether i should use image to gcode or graster for gcode conversion?
[04:54:15] <ssi> ok so it has four general purpose inputs that you can set to whatever
[04:54:21] <ssi> I have S1 and S2 set to fwd and reverse, respectively
[04:54:34] <Tecan> can i compile emc without realtime ?
[04:54:48] <ssi> then there's a switch to select "NPN input (SINK)" or "PNP input (SOURCE)"
[04:54:56] <Tecan> just want to test out my drivers
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[04:55:14] <ssi> and then they give you a 24v terminal (not sure if it's out or in) for PNP mode, and a COM terminal for NPN mode
[04:55:33] <ssi> trying to figure out how to drive those inputs directly from the fpga
[04:55:44] <djdelorie> sounds like the switch selects what kind of transistor *you* have, not what *it* has
[04:55:51] <ssi> mebbe!
[04:56:00] <ssi> it's clear as mud
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[04:56:06] <djdelorie> you could use the same TIP31 transistor solution from yesterday, me thinks
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[04:56:40] <djdelorie> most HVAC systems use a "short to COM" to activate, sounds similar (but HVAC is AC, not DC :)
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[04:57:34] <Arduno> looking help on graster?
[04:57:42] <Arduno> please help
[04:58:14] <djdelorie> never heard of graster...
[04:58:25] <ssi> short to com is sorta what I'm already doing without a transistor
[05:00:22] <djdelorie> just active low output ?
[05:00:41] <Arduno> hello djdelorie
[05:00:45] <djdelorie> hi
[05:01:10] <Arduno> i want to use image in emc2
[05:01:28] <Arduno> for that i am using graster for converting image into gcode
[05:01:49] <djdelorie> ssi: you should be able to test the switch with a wire; in NPN mode, short to com should activate it, in PNP mode, short to 24V should activate it. If it acts that way, that's what it means, and you can use a suitable transistor to do the shorting for you
[05:03:38] <ssi> yep, you're right
[05:03:46] <ssi> guess two more tip31s is what the doctor ordered
[05:04:09] <djdelorie> remember I mentioned buying a bunch of transistors? ;-)
[05:04:15] <ssi> which is rough because I seem to be out of terminal strip space
[05:04:26] <ssi> remember when I mentioned having a great big bag of TIP31s? :D
[05:04:58] <ssi> it's just ugly cause I'm crimping spade terminals on the legs of them and putting them on terminal strips
[05:05:01] <ssi> heheh
[05:05:26] <djdelorie> you could almost splice them right into your cables...
[05:05:32] <MattyMatt> sounds like pullup & pulldown resistors on the switch, so maybe it can be driven direct from fpga
[05:05:38] <ssi> I could
[05:05:59] <ssi> MattyMatt: I don't think it's gonna be happy direct driving them, because the float voltage on those lines is 26V
[05:07:43] <MattyMatt> sounds like a job for optos
[05:08:10] <ssi> don't have optos on hand
[05:08:21] <MattyMatt> Tecan you can compile in a non-realtime simulator mode but it won't test your drivers
[05:08:28] <djdelorie> yesterday we were putting transistors on optos...
[05:08:43] <MattyMatt> no pile of dead ATX?
[05:08:51] <MattyMatt> there's at least one in them
[05:09:16] <ssi> djdelorie: those optos were built into the 7i49
[05:09:18] <djdelorie> the opto didn't have enough current capacity, kept burning them out. Added a transistor to the opto to boost the current handling
[05:09:34] <ssi> and I didn't actually burn any out, thankfully
[05:10:15] <MattyMatt> 74hc14 after the opto would make it snappier, dunno if that will provide enough current on one gate
[05:13:58] <djdelorie> needed 42 mA minimum
[05:14:26] <ssi> now I'm just trying to figure out how to cram five transistors into 11 terminals worth of terminal strip :)
[05:14:45] <ssi> I need some heat shrink
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[05:18:30] <ssi> I'm going to have to come back around and make a little board for this at some point I think
[05:18:35] <ssi> when it was one transistor it was ok
[05:18:38] <ssi> when it was three, meh
[05:18:41] <ssi> now it's getting out of hand
[05:19:14] <djdelorie> transistors everywhere!
[06:10:51] <ssi> ok I have spindle fwd/rev now
[06:10:54] <ssi> no speed control yet
[06:10:57] <ssi> but I'm making progress :)
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[06:45:28] <yang__> 大家好o.o
[06:47:11] <psha[work]> ничего не понял
[06:47:28] <yang__> 什么东东
[06:47:37] <yang__> 老俄?
[06:49:00] <archivist> try english
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[06:49:45] <yang__> yes,please
[06:49:50] <yang__> try english
[06:51:02] <psha[work]> you first ;)
[06:52:14] <Jymmm> Ok, english didn't work. Try Zulu now!
[06:53:06] <Jymmm> French?
[06:56:02] <maximilian_h> Bonjour M. le president ;)
[06:56:46] <Jymmm> Ok, now Cajun!
[06:56:57] <Jymmm> with a aussie accent!
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[08:24:34] <Arduno> Hi
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[09:43:18] <Arduno> wants to understand graster tile_spacing
[09:43:24] <Arduno> anyone out there..?
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[12:36:37] <ssi> graaaaa
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[14:01:29] <JT-Shop> totally new OD lathe ngcgui sub http://linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/component/kunena/?func=view&catid=40&id=3675&limit=6&start=30#18808
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[14:18:15] <ssi> JT-Shop: what's improved?
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[14:18:44] <ssi> I guess the post explains that
[14:18:45] <ssi> nm :)
[14:18:59] <ssi> you know what I've found myself wishing for, which may or may not be even possible?
[14:19:06] <ssi> I'd love to have a FRO hardware knob,
[14:19:12] <ssi> but I'd REALLY love to have a DOC override knob
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[14:19:34] <ssi> probably a crazy idea, I know :)
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[14:27:24] <JT-Shop> yea, DOC override is a bit tough to do
[14:27:28] <ssi> yea I know
[14:27:37] <ssi> but how nice would it be :)
[14:28:11] <JT-Shop> you move the HNC with EMC yet?
[14:28:14] <ssi> yep
[14:28:22] <ssi> almost everything's working
[14:28:23] <JT-Shop> nice
[14:28:31] <ssi> got spindle fwd/rev going last night
[14:28:44] <ssi> don't have speed working yet
[14:28:47] <JT-Shop> be making chips soon
[14:28:49] <ssi> coolant is under control
[14:28:53] <ssi> turret's mostly working
[14:29:01] <ssi> axes are jogging, but I've got some troubles in the tuning
[14:29:07] <ssi> which we suspect are related to my overdriven resolvers
[14:29:31] <ssi> I don't have homing yet, and I think my Z coarse home switch isn't working
[14:30:03] <ssi> axes will run as fast as 240ipm pretty nicely
[14:30:40] <JT-Shop> pay close attention to touching off your tools...
[14:30:50] <JT-Shop> 2.5? I forget
[14:30:54] <ssi> yeah 2.5
[14:31:59] <JT-Shop> I touch off to fixture for Z for each tool in the tool table and touch off to material for X in the tool table
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[14:32:29] <ssi> I was thinking about trying to get one of the setup bars that has the half-flat for zeroing the tool to centerline in X
[14:32:55] <ssi> I couldn't figure out what they were for at first, but then it dawned on me
[14:32:56] <ssi> heh
[14:33:05] <cradek> one of those came with my lathe. the pain is you have to put the 1" collet in to use it
[14:33:19] <ssi> I have the setup bar for the tool height
[14:33:36] <cradek> oh isn't that the same?
[14:33:55] <ssi> no, the one for height stands on the bed and has a little swingover bit whose bottom surface is exactly at centerline
[14:34:09] <cradek> ah cool
[14:35:18] <ssi> hm do I need another one? http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hardinge-CHNC-Lathe-/280850598323?pt=BI_Lathes&hash=item41640009b3#ht_1226wt_70
[14:36:55] <ssi> so thinking about it more, I'm feeling like likely my turret problems stem from my ABCD lines being read inverted
[14:37:08] <ssi> cause when I command 1, I get 6. 2, 5. 3, 4.
[14:37:15] <ssi> 001 is 1, but 110 is 6
[14:37:21] <ssi> 010 is 2, but 101 is 5
[14:37:45] <ssi> also, if I ask for position 8, it hunts and gives up
[14:40:45] <ssi> so what is the HNC of the mill world?
[14:40:55] <ssi> something solid but with a junky NC control that's cheap and good for retrofitting
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[14:46:18] <ssi> pcw_: reading some stuff that suggests that asymmetric issues like I was seeing last night probably points to tach
[14:46:33] <ssi> pcw_: and that's right on the heels of Nick001 telling me that the tachs have issues because they wick oil into them
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[14:49:21] <JT-Shop> ssi: take the turret encoder cover off and watch your outputs from the encoder as you move the magnet over each hal switch
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[15:25:58] <mrsun> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAvfrrlMZg4&feature=endscreen&NR=1 talk about mirror finnish on that copper piece =)
[15:27:47] <ssi> awesome
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[16:23:33] <alex4nder> hey
[16:23:45] <JT-Shop> hay
[16:24:39] <alex4nder> how's it?
[16:24:53] <JT-Shop> not bad over here
[16:25:15] <alex4nder> nice
[16:25:43] <JT-Shop> thinking about a nap atm
[16:26:14] <alex4nder> good thought
[16:26:22] <alex4nder> I just started working.
[16:26:56] <JT-Shop> must be a bit west of me it's 11:30 here
[16:27:02] <alex4nder> yup
[16:27:58] * JT-Shop needs to install one more outlet box on the ceiling before a nap
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[17:02:40] <DJ9DJ> namd
[17:04:18] * ssi yawns
[17:04:56] * archivist listens for the purr of a hardinge
[17:05:24] * DJ9DJ throws a peanut in ssi's mouth
[17:07:38] <ssi> archivist: it's mostly running :)
[17:07:45] <ssi> sadly I'm at my day job now, so I can't make progress
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[17:28:09] <SolarNRG> Hi guys
[17:28:14] <ssi> get your crucible?
[17:28:22] <SolarNRG> Tomorrow
[17:28:36] <SolarNRG> http://i.imgur.com/v0auk.jpg
[17:28:38] <SolarNRG> Here's a picture
[17:28:46] <SolarNRG> http://i.imgur.com/4e4s2.jpg
[17:28:52] <SolarNRG> The 2nd one is what I'll pour the molten ally into
[17:29:05] <SolarNRG> We've got a busybody shitstirring saying what I'm doing is dangerous
[17:29:20] <SolarNRG> I've been over the fire station and asked them about health and safety
[17:29:27] <ssi> I'm trying to load the pics, having trouble
[17:29:33] <SolarNRG> They've advised me that IF the microwave catches fire, immediately shut off the power
[17:29:45] <ssi> and I think it probably is dangerous, fwiw :)
[17:29:54] <ssi> why don't you build a proper furnace?
[17:30:02] <alex4nder> imgur is eating shit
[17:30:21] <SolarNRG> Because I am investigating a green, domestic, inexpensive method of smelting aluminium casts
[17:30:33] <Loetmichel> ssi: most modern MWs are short-curcuit-protected.
[17:30:36] <Loetmichel> MODERN
[17:30:37] <ssi> not sure how green it is
[17:30:39] <alex4nder> haha
[17:30:40] <Loetmichel> the old ones not
[17:30:48] <SolarNRG> I figured the dangerous bit is the POURING of the molten ally
[17:30:53] <alex4nder> yah, what's green about setting a microwave on fire?
[17:31:05] <SolarNRG> I've seen a few vids of hobo casts and the molten ally ignites as soon as it hits the cast
[17:31:07] <ssi> SolarNRG: how are you going to separate the slag?
[17:31:16] <SolarNRG> I have a 1m long 25mm steel rod
[17:31:19] <ssi> SolarNRG: you're gonna have like 60% slag with the bean cans
[17:31:31] <SolarNRG> ssi, you are RIGHT
[17:31:38] <ssi> I KNOW!
[17:32:18] <ssi> forced air propane burner would be green, domestic, and inexpensive
[17:32:27] <alex4nder> ssi: he's going to pour it all into a pyrex fat skimmer
[17:32:32] <alex4nder> and grab it with mittens
[17:32:38] <ssi> kitten mittens!?
[17:32:57] <alex4nder> yah. :(
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[17:33:27] <SolarNRG> Karen's been saying stuff to our neighbours
[17:33:35] <SolarNRG> I have no idea how they worked out where we live
[17:33:43] <ssi> who the hell is Karen
[17:33:53] <alex4nder> ssi: the other character in the soap opera
[17:33:54] <SolarNRG> Some bitch we met at the funeral
[17:33:55] <alex4nder> duh
[17:34:11] <SolarNRG> She's now trying to get us evicted
[17:34:12] <alex4nder> SolarNRG: did someone you know die while microwave beer can casting?
[17:34:18] <SolarNRG> No
[17:34:23] <SolarNRG> Died of old age
[17:34:26] <alex4nder> so you'll be the first then
[17:34:44] <SolarNRG> I doubt it, althought I think I am at risk of a bit of molten ally spattering onto a part of my body and me screaming liek a little girl
[17:35:33] <ssi> I think you'll scream worse than a little girl if that happens
[17:36:03] <SolarNRG> Just out of interest, when I'm extracting the solid slag, if I put it onto the damp concrete slabs outside, what happens?
[17:36:12] <ssi> it'll spatter everywhere
[17:36:27] <SolarNRG> What would be a safe thing to put the slag in?
[17:36:51] <alex4nder> dry sand
[17:36:54] <alex4nder> in a ceramic container
[17:37:12] <SolarNRG> Can I use the prebaked sand in the oven tray as my slag disposal unit?
[17:38:24] <SolarNRG> http://i.imgur.com/4e4s2.jpg
[17:38:33] <SolarNRG> The top is my cast, the bottom is my baked sand
[17:38:40] <SolarNRG> It was twice and dense when wet
[17:38:53] <SolarNRG> That sand was baked at 230 degrees for 4 hours in my oven
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[18:04:39] <anonimasu> anyone got a nice idea how to get some splines cut?
[18:04:51] <ssi> 4th axis?
[18:04:54] <anonimasu> in some c45 steel..
[18:05:23] <syyl> internal?
[18:05:28] <archivist> often hobbed or broached
[18:05:29] <anonimasu> external
[18:05:44] <ssi> external could be done with a 4th axis reasonably well
[18:05:47] <ssi> or hobbed or broached
[18:05:47] <anonimasu> the external ones i'll sub out for waterjet..
[18:06:06] <ssi> internal, I'd be looking at rotary broaches
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[18:06:15] <archivist> or shaping
[18:06:23] <ssi> yea shaper'd work
[18:06:25] <anonimasu> $$$$$$ though..
[18:07:05] <syyl> shaper is always fun
[18:07:16] <syyl> but often not the right machine to earn money ;)
[18:07:30] <anonimasu> might be easier buying a keyway broach.
[18:07:38] <anonimasu> i dont nescessarily need splines.
[18:07:49] <anonimasu> they just seem like a neat way to do what i need..
[18:07:50] <ssi> just some way of driving?
[18:08:01] <ssi> key is simplest way to drive
[18:08:04] <anonimasu> tho, alot of torque..
[18:08:13] <ssi> what's the application
[18:08:25] <anonimasu> some machine for doing stuff
[18:08:35] <ssi> that clears it up ;)
[18:08:35] <archivist> and qty
[18:08:41] <anonimasu> like 20..
[18:08:58] <anonimasu> the axle is like 80mm dia..
[18:09:17] <archivist> taper lock type drive
[18:09:18] <ssi> 3", ok
[18:09:21] <ssi> that's pretty big
[18:10:27] <anonimasu> I could get a 4th working, tho, 3" capacity is kind of heavy for my small rotary table
[18:10:35] <IchGuckLive> ssi i did the finish of my 24 4th axis today on thuseday they will be fitted onto the education mashines
[18:10:51] <ssi> neat
[18:11:15] <anonimasu> and the next issue is the internal splines.
[18:11:22] <IchGuckLive> simple 80 Euro material for one
[18:11:35] <anonimasu> the big one, and nowhere her to sub it out to..
[18:11:41] <anonimasu> yeah a wire shop.
[18:11:48] <ssi> anonimasu: if you can pick a keyway that'll handle the torque in the application, that's gonna be MUCH MUCH simpler to make
[18:12:09] <anonimasu> I cant remember the torque for it right now in this second.
[18:12:26] <anonimasu> tho, the duplex chain of dubious quality handled about 30 seconds..
[18:12:26] <ssi> you can use a pretty big key in an 80mm shaft
[18:12:39] <ssi> probably 12mm or bigger
[18:12:48] <anonimasu> (the triplex SKF one works forever)
[18:13:17] <ssi> so you're wanting to spline a sprocket hub on this shaft?
[18:13:33] <anonimasu> yeah
[18:14:08] <IchGuckLive> anonimasu: 11Nm for alu 50Nm for steel
[18:14:31] <anonimasu> IchGuckLive: ?
[18:14:45] <IchGuckLive> requierd holding torqe to mill
[18:15:48] <IchGuckLive> on rotation axis
[18:17:24] <IchGuckLive> i need to leave by nice talk today B)
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[18:18:24] <anonimasu> not a problem problem is to get the chuck to fit the stock
[18:19:57] <anonimasu> the torque is like roughly 1000Nm..
[18:20:09] <anonimasu> 500-1000Nm
[18:21:06] <anonimasu> non static load.
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[19:59:46] <jv4779> When I do "G10 L20 X0 Y0" in MDI to update G54 the offsets are changed, but Axis doesn't update the backplot, how can I get that to update ?
[20:03:55] <cradek> click reload or hit Control-r
[20:04:07] <cradek> (touch off does this for you)
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[20:05:17] <jv4779> I figured tough-off was doing something, but not reload. as that doesnt' work when running a .py script
[20:05:58] <cradek> I think it doesn't run the filter again, but it DOES reload
[20:06:27] <cradek> I think you're right that control-r does both
[20:07:02] <jv4779> I should have said something very similar to reload
[20:10:05] <cradek> some filters, like image2gcode, can take a really long time to run
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[20:17:41] <jv4779> I want to make a pyvcp button to set X and Y g54 offsets to current position. wihtout having to enter 0 or hit 2 buttons. I thought I could do this with a halui.mdi-command-00 set to "G10 L20 P1 X0 Y0"
[20:17:59] <jv4779> but the backplot isn't being updated
[20:27:07] <cradek> yep it won't be
[20:27:40] <jv4779> do I need to be doing gladvcp instaed ?
[20:28:09] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[20:28:41] <cradek> how you issue the mdi command is not relevant: the preview plot won't get regenerated.
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[20:29:38] <jv4779> atleast I read that gladevcp is able to run code and do other stuff and not just run the mdi command, assuming taht there is some python axis function that cna be called to get the "touch-off" behavior
[20:30:14] <cradek> oh perhaps, don't know for sure
[20:30:43] <jv4779> eventually I am going to have this one button triggered from a control panel, which makes doing a data entry touch-off impossible like the current axis display
[20:31:14] <cradek> if you're interacting with a control panel, who cares if the preview is regenerated
[20:31:53] <jv4779> just for sanity. if you goto the control panel and do a touch off and run, then look at the backplot it will not match up with what is being drawn
[20:32:08] <jv4779> it will look wrong
[20:32:11] <jv4779> very wrong
[20:32:30] <cradek> yeah, the multiple interfaces don't know much about each other. it's pretty much each one's job to be complete on its own.
[20:32:47] <cradek> for instance one could be displaying the dro in mm, and the other in inches.
[20:33:15] <cradek> AXIS and halui are totally separate user interfaces
[20:33:44] <jv4779> so they are all poking at the hal pins and only interacting with eacy other as far as the displayed pins are changing ?
[20:34:19] <cradek> user interfaces don't interact with the linuxcnc guts through the hal layer at all, they use nml, another abstraction
[20:34:36] <cradek> halui is a user interface that has hal pins for interacting with the USER
[20:35:08] <cradek> ... via hardware (note hal = hardware abstraction layer)
[20:35:12] <jv4779> I havn't had to touch any nml yet. I see I have more to learn
[20:35:48] <cradek> you generally don't have to, unless you're writing a user interface ... but then you'd have 3 problems instead of 2
[20:36:23] <jv4779> I guess this is similar to the MPG on my mill, when I move the X axis to the correct tough off point. AXIS doesnt' know I was moving X so I have to select X, then touchoff. where if I had jogged with the keyboard, x would have been selected for me
[20:36:57] <cradek> right, same thing. axisui has *outputs* that you can use to select the axes for a wheel, if you want to do it that way.
[20:37:25] <cradek> the wheel is sort of separate and not really part of any user interface, it controls the motion controller in realtime
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[20:37:48] <cradek> (because nonrealtime jogwheel response really sucks)
[20:37:51] <jv4779> run, pause, and stop doesn't seem to have issues with multiple controls sinve the UI is just showing current state
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[20:38:16] <cradek> right
[20:38:39] <cradek> also mdi's active gcodes, feed overrides, etc etc
[20:38:45] <cradek> loaded file
[20:39:01] <cradek> these things are linuxcnc status that is shared with all the UIs
[20:39:17] <cradek> selected jog axis is not, because each UI can do jogging however it wants
[20:39:36] <cradek> for instance some UIs let you jog more than one at a time, so "selected" makes little sense
[20:39:39] <jv4779> so to get this touch off to work I would have to make AXIS expose a hal pin to trigger the AXIS code to do the G10 and update teh UI.
[20:40:04] <cradek> if that's what you must have, I guess so
[20:40:18] <jv4779> kinda like AXIS remote control and not a seperate HALUI gui
[20:40:38] <cradek> oh hey
[20:40:39] <cradek> % axis-remote --help
[20:40:40] <cradek> axis-remote: cause AXIS to open, reload its opened file, or exit
[20:41:14] <cradek> I don't know how that works, but there's an axis remote control program already
[20:41:19] <jv4779> one option to do the remote control panel is via keyboard emulation, that might work better than doing hidcomp style
[20:41:37] <cradek> keyboard emulation is shit
[20:42:07] <cradek> depending on a particular window focus when windows pop up and down is doomed to fail
[20:42:21] <cradek> halui is a much better answer for control panels
[20:42:52] <jv4779> halui sure sounds like the best way for everything except the AXIS gui refresh :(
[20:43:49] <jv4779> nice thing about a DIY laser cutter and using EMC is you are never really done, so there is alway more fun stuff to figure out
[20:44:18] <jv4779> the patch for W axis moving worked perfectly
[20:45:07] <ssi> jv4779: what kinda laser are you using?
[20:45:24] <cradek> sorry I don't know what patch you are talking about
[20:45:26] <jv4779> 40w co2
[20:45:33] <ssi> what can you cut with it?
[20:45:37] <ssi> paper and balsa?
[20:45:40] <ssi> light plexiglas?
[20:45:54] <ssi> probably etch metal
[20:46:00] <jv4779> I believe the limits are 1/4" plywood and 3/8" acrylic
[20:46:09] <ssi> that's not too bad
[20:46:12] <jv4779> and etching of alot of things
[20:46:17] <ssi> do you have any construction details? I'd love to see them
[20:46:25] <ssi> I want a laser pretty bad, even a wee underpowered onen :)
[20:46:31] <jv4779> buildlog.net this is a 2.x design
[20:47:03] <jv4779> most people use a DSP or maybe mach3 to control it, a few of us are using EMC
[20:47:11] <ssi> EMC is a great choice
[20:47:15] <ssi> very flexible
[20:47:24] <ssi> I know a guy with a 150W laser, commercial table
[20:47:31] <ssi> and he has some controller that acts like a printer
[20:47:34] <ssi> seems limiting
[20:47:37] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: You still on dialup?
[20:48:41] <ssi> what'd the 40w tube cost you?
[20:48:45] <jv4779> the pre packaged DSP solutions have a print driver or a seperate program to drive it (linda like plasmacam). the workflow is nicer that way. generting gcode to be run by a seperate program is more flexable, but not as friendly
[20:49:01] <Jymmm> My laser acts just like a printer, works great! No CAM do deal with, and will output anything I throw at it, doens't HAVE to be vector based.
[20:49:02] <ssi> I've got a 4x4' plasma table that I scratchbuilt
[20:49:10] <jv4779> I think it was $400 for the tube and power supply shipped
[20:49:15] <ssi> not terrible
[20:49:38] <cradek> Jymmm: how are your lampshades?
[20:49:44] <jv4779> all the parts were below the thinking hard point so it is easy to dig a big hole
[20:49:55] <ssi> heheh yeah
[20:50:10] <ssi> I've had that problem with several of my projects
[20:50:36] <ssi> on the plasma table, I had the table itself constructed and the plasma cutter in hand before I figured out what to use for main linear slides
[20:50:39] <jv4779> the buildlog.net design is very good. the drawings, BOM, and forum community is top notch
[20:50:44] <ssi> I knew what I wanted, but I couldn't get a good enough price
[20:50:49] <ssi> finally had to suck it up and just spend the bux
[20:51:02] <ssi> looks like that design uses 80/20 for framing
[20:51:18] <Jymmm> cradek: Sorta ok. Since I'm doing intricate designs, I need to add air-assist to my laser to help with the cutting. Something I've known I have had to do, just been procrastinating =)
[20:51:35] <jv4779> yes, with makerslide and v-brearings for the linear motion
[20:51:43] <ssi> what kind of screws?
[20:51:50] <jv4779> all belts
[20:51:54] <ssi> ahh
[20:52:12] <jv4779> mine is moving at 1080in/min, too fast for screws
[20:52:38] <Jymmm> cradek: It's funy though, I never realized how HUGE the material has to be to cut one though. Just a 3" tall 4" wide take up to a 12"x12" material.
[20:52:45] <ssi> jv4779: can you put a cost estimate on the total machine?
[20:53:22] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: When you get done playing with all this machining and CNC stuff, you can go make some money with your goldwing... http://ablestmage.wordpress.com/2009/07/02/new-japanese-tow-trucks-motorcycles/
[20:53:25] <jv4779> ssi: I want to say $1500, but that probably doesn't include the extra hardware store trips
[20:53:32] <ssi> naturally
[20:53:36] <ssi> that's not too bad
[20:53:43] <ssi> I probably have closer to $5k in my plasma table
[20:53:54] <ssi> and I've got about $3k in my HNC now if I include actually fetching the damn thing
[20:53:59] <jv4779> not bad for a 40w with 32"x18" bed
[20:54:03] <Jymmm> cradek: Your PS works great! I'm still breaking it apart figuring out wth you did =)
[20:54:04] <JT-Shop> Jymmm: yup
[20:54:06] <ssi> yea that's not bad at all
[20:54:23] <cradek> Jymmm: yay
[20:54:26] <ssi> jv4779: is there any limit to how big a tube you can put in it?
[20:54:35] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: you should check out that link.
[20:55:04] <JT-Shop> it's downloading be back in a hour or so when it is done
[20:55:10] <Jymmm> k
[20:56:03] <jv4779> ssi: I think 4'x2' is about the max because of the flex of the rails and the long path the laser needs to travel. bigger than that you need a different design either gantry mounted tube or some kinda fiber coupling instead of mirrors
[20:56:12] <Jymmm> cradek: Can PS have three values on the stack then see a function, or only two are allowed?
[20:56:29] <cradek> it can have any number
[20:56:42] <jv4779> I have seen one design that was 4x2 and it had lots of problem with sag in the middle throwing off the laser alignmnet
[20:57:00] <Jymmm> cradek: Ah, ok. I wasn't sure. For some reason I thought only 2, don't know why though.
[20:57:45] <cradek> /add3 { add add } def
[20:57:52] <cradek> 1 2 3 add3 => 6
[20:58:05] <ssi> jv4779: I'll have to put this on my list
[20:58:07] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: It's a Motorcycle tow truck for cars up to 2500KG. Uses a Goldwing.
[20:58:15] <ssi> although I'd quickly become unhappy with low-power lasers
[20:58:32] <JT-Shop> the GL1800 has enough power to pull a truck!
[20:58:44] <Jymmm> cradek: Ok, What was the purpose of DUP in your PS ?
[20:58:50] <jv4779> ssi: you can get up to 150w in a sealed co2 tube, but it still will not really cut metal
[20:58:57] <ssi> yeah I know
[20:59:01] <cradek> hell I don't remember
[20:59:03] <ssi> you need like 1kw or more to do well
[20:59:09] <Jymmm> cradek: Ok, good answer =)
[20:59:15] <JT-Shop> if they lowered the gearing to say a top speed of 100MPH then it would tow even more if it could get traction...
[20:59:20] <cradek> what did I do after duping?
[20:59:26] <Jymmm> cradek: It's ok, like I said I'm still breaking it apart.
[20:59:31] <ssi> does anyone ever DIY waterjets? :D
[21:00:10] <jv4779> ssi: sounds more interesting than plasma
[21:00:12] <Jymmm> cradek: the DUP is used in a few places, I just never heard of such a function inany programming lan before is all. I thought it might have somethign to do with the RPN aspects.
[21:00:21] <ssi> jv4779: perhaps... plasma's cheap and easy though :)
[21:00:29] <cradek> are you asking what dup does, or how I used it?
[21:00:41] <Jymmm> cradek: how you used it.
[21:00:42] <cradek> (it duplicates the top entry on the stack)
[21:00:57] <cradek> oh, then I dunno without looking.
[21:00:58] <ssi> OH I had a question for folks here
[21:01:10] <Jymmm> cradek: But is DUP more of a RPN thing than anythign else?
[21:01:15] <ssi> I was at a basketball game yesterday, and they had a robot camera on four cables
[21:01:21] <ssi> I've seen similar kinematics before...
[21:01:26] <ssi> is there a NAME for that kinematic model?
[21:01:26] <djdelorie> hey, postscript...
[21:01:39] <ssi> where you pay out cables to hit a particular position in 3d space?
[21:01:40] <cradek> dup doesn't make much sense without a stack
[21:01:52] <Jymmm> cradek: ah, ok.
[21:02:37] <Jymmm> cradek: when would you typically use DUP?
[21:03:20] <cradek> when I had a think on the stack I want to duplicate into two things
[21:03:27] <cradek> thing
[21:03:51] <djdelorie> for example, "scale" takes two arguments that are usually the same, so /scale1 { dup scale } def
[21:04:06] <cradek> 9 dup add => 18
[21:04:48] <djdelorie> but I use it a lot in a complex equation where I need to use an intermediate value in multiple places
[21:05:09] <djdelorie> or in the context of a gsave...grestore when you want to preserve the stack too
[21:05:40] <Jymmm> djdelorie: Ok, that I can understand.
[21:06:53] <Jymmm> Does PS have the ability to access an external file by chance?
[21:07:07] <Jymmm> like an #include ?
[21:07:19] <djdelorie> it has that capability, but I've yet to find an implementation that actually supports it. Ghostscript might, though.
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[21:07:27] <djdelorie> er, not #include. Just data
[21:07:29] <Jymmm> djdelorie: gotcha
[21:07:37] <Jymmm> Yeah, just data
[21:07:58] <djdelorie> although you may be able to do "read file, parse, run" but it's not as easy to use as #include
[21:08:28] <djdelorie> you could run your .ps file through cpp first :)
[21:08:33] <Jymmm> Yeah, not a big deal. Just as easy to edit the vars at the top and jsut copy the file to a new filename.
[21:09:02] <Jymmm> SAVE AS > blah2.ps
[21:09:21] <djdelorie> you can pass arguments to ghostscript, too
[21:09:43] <Jymmm> djdelorie: JUST ghostscript, or any PS file?
[21:10:02] <djdelorie> er, I know ghostscript has command-line arguments to pre-set variables
[21:10:41] <Jymmm> Ok, I think I'll just keep using SAVE AS =)
[21:10:55] <djdelorie> gs -sMyVariable=5.67 some.ps
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[21:25:22] <asdfasd> linux amateur need help with numlock, it was working, after one or 2 restarts numlock lamp work as on/off but the keypad is always off, Im using standard 104 keys keyboard, I tried to change the settings with different type of keyboards but still same problem, any ideas?
[21:26:26] <JT-Shop> don't sound good
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[21:49:16] <raynerd> Anyone on here actually used one of these cheapo TB6560 drivers?
[21:50:07] <asdfasd> I tried one - the blue boards from ebay - rubish
[21:50:41] <asdfasd> but TB6560 is good, with proper board work nice
[21:51:01] <raynerd> I`m trying to find the limit inputs, I`ve got the manual up and it shows a little wierd connection block but I can not for the life of me find a suitable male connector socket. However, it shows there is a x,y z stop on the "manual interface" . I`m just wondering if I could tap into it from there?
[21:51:31] <raynerd> http://www.fozztexx.com/CNC/HY-TB3DV-M_3Axis_Driver.pdf
[21:51:55] <asdfasd> limit and homes are on small 5 pin white connector
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[21:54:02] <asdfasd> on page 3 - 4 input interface (limit, STOP etc)
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[21:59:37] <rob_h> any one here use neat cutting oils on there lathes??
[21:59:55] <djdelorie> neat? As opposed to the messy stuff we usually end up with?
[22:00:26] <rob_h> not water soluble
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[22:02:52] <alex4nder> rob_h: I've used some on my mill, when I thought it needed it
[22:02:54] <Jymmm> Could someone watch the video and see if its stallign for them too? http://www.harborfreight.com/36-inch-bolt-cutters-41150.html?ccdenc=eyJjb2RlIjoiMTA3NjIyNjkiLCJza3UiOiI0MTE1MCIsImlzIjoiMTkuOTkiLCJwcm9kdWN0X2lk%0D%0AIjoiMTA0MyJ9%0D%0A
[22:03:38] <rob_h> just trying to see how people rate it over a good water based one
[22:04:10] <rob_h> thinking putting it in the chnc.. as water ones tend to go off when its not used for awhile.. unlike bigger lathes used daily on water based ones
[22:04:48] <rob_h> think cradek uses neat oil on his hnc
[22:05:03] <archivist> where I used to work we used neat oil on the gear cutting machines
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[22:05:31] <djdelorie> Jymmm: works fine for me
[22:05:40] <Jymmm> djdelorie: thanks
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[22:20:44] <ssi> rob_h: I have neat oil in mine, but I haven't actually cut anything with it yet, and I've never used soluble oil
[22:21:05] <rob_h> what make do you have do you know
[22:21:13] <ssi> mobilmet 766
[22:21:19] <ssi> Enco has it for $70/5gal
[22:21:22] <ssi> cheapest I found
[22:21:26] <ssi> I bought 10 gal
[22:21:49] <rob_h> yea chnc takes 30 gallons
[22:21:55] <ssi> I have hnc, takes 9 gal
[22:22:09] <ssi> I have reservations about soluble oil
[22:22:18] <rob_h> yea our hnc sits in back shed waiting for some love
[22:22:20] <ssi> I didn't want to pony up the dough for neat oil, but I did :)
[22:22:28] <ssi> 30 gal is a lot tho
[22:22:34] <ssi> if I had a chnc, I might be considering soluble
[22:22:42] <ssi> I bought some soluble oil, but I haven't even popped the seal yet
[22:22:48] <ssi> I think it's mobilcut
[22:22:55] <rob_h> yea we have used soluble in it before
[22:23:03] <ssi> how was it
[22:23:06] <rob_h> it has filtermist fitted also
[22:23:20] <rob_h> so can remove any mist in the air easy
[22:23:31] <ssi> how's that work, suction fan?
[22:23:49] <rob_h> its grate.. just like all our other machine (mind u thats getting pricy now) just we dont use CHNC every day so it was mosly always on the turn of going off
[22:24:15] <rob_h> yea... then it seperates it out inside, i think they spin the air and or something.
[22:24:19] <ssi> gotcha
[22:24:20] <ssi> neat idea
[22:24:48] <rob_h> http://www.filtermist.com/
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[22:24:55] <ssi> guy I bought my hnc from said it's only ever had neat oil in it its whole life
[22:25:00] <ssi> so I figured I'd keep that trend up
[22:25:18] <rob_h> yea hnc we had on neat is still in tip top condition
[22:25:34] <rob_h> the chnc tho.. we just had to put new spindle bearings in.. they was well past there best
[22:25:41] <rob_h> you dont want to know the price on them
[22:25:48] <ssi> no, I really don't :)
[22:25:57] <ssi> still using the stock control on the chnc?
[22:26:24] <rob_h> no its EMCed now
[22:26:35] <ssi> nice :)
[22:26:39] <rob_h> 90% there just not got time to finish it tho
[22:26:43] <ssi> I'm about done with my conversion
[22:26:46] <ssi> it's going remarkably fast
[22:26:55] <ssi> I ripped the GE control to bits like nine days ago
[22:27:25] <rob_h> http://linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/component/kunena/?func=view&catid=30&id=14077
[22:27:42] <ssi> I need to get homing working, spindle speed control and feedback, tune the servos, and I can make chips
[22:27:59] <rob_h> using the old motors?
[22:28:02] <ssi> yep
[22:28:07] <rob_h> drives
[22:28:12] <ssi> yep, GE HIAK
[22:28:23] <rob_h> spindle motor
[22:28:26] <ssi> stock
[22:28:28] <ssi> but with VFD
[22:28:34] <rob_h> yea
[22:28:41] <rob_h> i started to do our hnc
[22:28:46] <ssi> and a little VFD on the coolant motor
[22:28:51] <rob_h> took clutch out.. to vfd it
[22:28:59] <ssi> I left the clutch in
[22:29:04] <rob_h> aah no 3phase?
[22:29:05] <ssi> be nice to have two speed ranges
[22:29:11] <ssi> no, no 3phase
[22:29:14] <ssi> it's in my garage :(
[22:29:22] <rob_h> aah
[22:29:57] <ssi> http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/465123_811175720902_71107655_35471862_290089005_o.jpg
[22:30:07] <rob_h> got 100amp 3 phase at work.. then 60amp 3phase here at home too in the shed :)
[22:30:14] <ssi> before I ripped up the control :)
[22:30:28] <ssi> next place I get I'll be sure to have 3phase
[22:30:39] <ssi> I've gotten along pretty well without so far though
[22:30:47] <ssi> I have four machines that are 3phase
[22:30:51] <ssi> two on VFDs and two on statics
[22:30:57] <rob_h> having it will only make you want a bigger machine ;)
[22:31:03] <ssi> I already want bigger machines
[22:31:11] <ssi> I bought a forklift when I bought the HNC
[22:31:18] <ssi> and now I think in terms of forklift capacity :)
[22:31:25] <rob_h> funny how many hnc are around still
[22:31:31] <ssi> I really like it
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[22:31:37] <rob_h> tooling can be crazy prices for them tho..
[22:31:42] <ssi> yeah I know
[22:31:51] <ssi> I bought a bunch from the guy that sold me the lathe (he was a bit stingy) and a bunch off ebay
[22:31:56] <ssi> I've probably got about $1200 in tooling already
[22:31:59] <ssi> haven't even cut anything yet
[22:31:59] <ssi> haha
[22:32:51] <rob_h> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7V57_7H9zw
[22:32:55] <rob_h> my superslant
[22:33:08] <ssi> omg I want a superslant so bad
[22:33:11] <rob_h> with bearings that want changing in the spindle :(
[22:33:12] <ssi> I talked to a guy that was selling one
[22:33:16] <rob_h> we got 2x
[22:33:17] <ssi> he talked me out of it
[22:33:30] <rob_h> both have 4m bar feeds
[22:33:38] <rob_h> no power tooling tho
[22:33:38] <ssi> that's awesome
[22:33:40] <ssi> really nice machine
[22:33:46] <ssi> can they be fitted with live tools?
[22:34:05] <rob_h> they did a 4 axis one.. it had top turret on botom, instead of the fixed Z only one for drilling
[22:34:10] <rob_h> then live holders in top
[22:34:12] <ssi> ahhh
[22:34:15] <rob_h> on turret u see there
[22:34:29] <rob_h> just holled the shaft out.. and put a axis motor for driving the tooling
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[22:34:37] <rob_h> was abit simple and crude in the day but it worked
[22:34:47] <rob_h> but you can only index and lock spindle then mill/drill no C axis
[22:35:11] <rob_h> why did guy talk you out of it?
[22:35:18] <ssi> cause it's 11,000lb
[22:35:26] <rob_h> llol
[22:35:27] <rob_h> yes
[22:35:27] <ssi> and lots of fiddly hydraulics and crazy control stuff
[22:35:39] <ssi> and he'd already scrapped it
[22:35:40] <ssi> hahahaha
[22:35:42] <rob_h> it says 5t on book.. but they deff the alot more
[22:36:30] <rob_h> after the update its solid machine again, hold tollerance all day long.. and i know when i turn it on in the morning still be same size part
[22:36:37] <rob_h> just like the hnc
[22:36:44] <ssi> yeah that's what I'm excited about with the hnc
[22:36:53] <ssi> even just m essing with the axes
[22:37:05] <ssi> I'm amazed at how tight they are and how closely the resolvers track a tenths dti
[22:37:20] <rob_h> if look onthe vids u'll see a leadwell mill i did too
[22:37:33] <ssi> so my next desire
[22:37:47] <ssi> is a nice old mill in the 5-6000lb range
[22:37:50] <ssi> with a shit old NC control
[22:37:53] <ssi> that I can get for a song :)
[22:38:15] <rob_h> probly here all them kind of machine go off to some far east country
[22:38:23] <rob_h> so never see them or get scraped
[22:38:34] <rob_h> UK here
[22:38:34] <ssi> heheh
[22:38:42] <ssi> I'm in southeast US
[22:38:43] <ssi> atlanta
[22:39:08] <rob_h> or if you find something old they want crazy price for it
[22:39:13] <ssi> I drove all the way to CT to buy the hnc
[22:39:20] <rob_h> for not much more you can buy something quite good
[22:39:25] <ssi> such as?
[22:39:30] <ssi> I need suggestions of machines to look for
[22:39:44] <ssi> I want the hnc of the mill world
[22:39:47] <ssi> cheap because the control sucks
[22:39:50] <ssi> good for converting
[22:40:02] <rob_h> mazak then
[22:40:25] <rob_h> or matsuura
[22:41:58] <rob_h> but all depends how much work the poor thing has done
[22:42:04] <rob_h> how much tlc it needs
[22:42:49] <alex4nder> ssi: that's the linuxcnc holy grail
[22:43:23] <ssi> alex4nder: which, the hnc?
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[22:43:29] <ssi> or just that pattern in general? :)
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[22:44:54] <alex4nder> that pattern.
[22:45:00] <asdfasd> you guys sounds more experienced can I ask for some advices, soon Im going to run a lathe, I need to machine aluminium 6028T6 do you think I can go without any lubrication?
[22:45:27] <ssi> you can, but coolant makes a world of difference in how hard you can run it and surface finish
[22:46:26] <asdfasd> I want to anodise it later, and I thought that it will be easy if I keep the pieces clean
[22:46:40] <ssi> clean doesn't matter
[22:46:48] <ssi> you have to run it through a lye bath to remove the surface oxide
[22:46:54] <ssi> aluminum forms surface oxide in seconds
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[22:47:21] <asdfasd> but that will be much easy than cleaning from oils or coolants
[22:47:31] <rob_h> dont forget anodizing, what you see is what you get
[22:47:57] <rob_h> if your anodizing, you will degrase and maybe etch too so will remove any oils etc
[22:48:15] <rob_h> when you touch the part you will add oils from your hand onto the part which is more pain to clean off some times
[22:49:34] <rob_h> as ssi said too... beat me to it
[22:49:50] <asdfasd> I thought if I keep them clean, machining dry, and not toching with hands on any point, then I can skip degreasing, just quick cleaning to remove oxide, do you think is good idea?
[22:50:37] <ssi> I don't think it's gonna make much difference either way to be honest
[22:50:56] <ssi> better off machining with coolant if possible to get the best possible finish
[22:51:01] <ssi> since that will have a bearing on your anodize
[22:51:57] <alex4nder> asdfasd: are you outsourcing to a shop for anodizing?
[22:52:22] <asdfasd> ok, I will try, then another question - how to anodize hundreds small pieces?
[22:52:41] <rob_h> same as 1 part just many times more ;)
[22:52:45] <rob_h> jigs
[22:52:51] <rob_h> u need to jig it to make it worth the time
[22:53:08] <rob_h> or give it to someone who does it all the time.. they will have Titanium jigs
[22:53:38] <asdfasd> I have to do it myself, so I have to find the proper way
[22:53:56] <rob_h> u can use alli to make jigs.. depends on your part
[22:54:31] <rob_h> Ti you don thave to stip each time. so if you do alot of them all the time its fast
[22:54:47] <asdfasd> I want to make some kind of attachment, where I can attach 100 pieces, anotise them at once, and then replace them with new ones
[22:54:50] <rob_h> alli is faster to make a jig and alot cheaper.. but you need to strip it each time
[22:55:21] <asdfasd> oh yes, that was the problem I woried about
[22:55:28] <asdfasd> so I can use titanium?
[22:55:29] <rob_h> most anodizing places have a set number of jigs to do most common shapes etc... when they dont have one with alot of bits todo they will make one
[22:55:44] <rob_h> yea but stay away from Titanium alloys.. they dont work at all
[22:55:53] <rob_h> grade 2 is recomended i think
[22:55:56] <asdfasd> what about carbon?
[22:56:19] <rob_h> acid would attack the epoxy or fibers? i dont know
[22:56:31] <rob_h> you dont want to contaminate your acid tank or dys etc
[22:56:51] <asdfasd> yes, you are right
[22:57:23] <asdfasd> I know there is aluminium alloys which cant be anodised, then can I use them for attaching?
[22:57:26] <JT-Shop> rob_h: what function does the jig do?
[22:57:29] <asdfasd> or they still desolve ?
[22:58:04] <ssi> JT-Shop: holds everything and conducts current
[22:58:31] <rob_h> yea
[22:58:33] <JT-Shop> like coat racks or similar
[22:58:42] <rob_h> u need alli that can pass current well and not limit it
[22:58:49] <JT-Shop> parts hang from wires right?
[22:58:59] <rob_h> Ti is ok.. but u need 1v more than with alli due to its propertys
[22:59:13] <rob_h> Alli carrys alot more current than Ti for like to like area
[22:59:24] <JT-Shop> brb
[22:59:27] <rob_h> u can wire hang yes.. alli welding wire works grate
[22:59:32] <asdfasd> the pieces are really small, so not much current is needed
[22:59:55] <rob_h> here are some jigs
[22:59:56] <rob_h> http://i01.i.aliimg.com/photo/v0/12209347/Titanium_Jigs_for_Anodizing.jpg
[23:00:36] <asdfasd> oh yes.... I need that :)
[23:01:19] <asdfasd> so titanium do not need cleaning when replacing the small pieces?
[23:02:26] <rob_h> no
[23:03:13] <asdfasd> ok. lets say if I make it aluminium, then the rest surface will be anodised many times
[23:03:26] <asdfasd> is it going to be thinner with time?
[23:03:44] <asdfasd> is it contaminate the acid?
[23:03:57] <rob_h> once u anodized the parts u need to strip it in caustic soda or stripping solution
[23:04:07] <asdfasd> I mean the jigs
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[23:04:17] <asdfasd> if the jigs are alluminium
[23:04:19] <rob_h> yea need strip the jig
[23:04:52] <JT-Shop> I see now
[23:05:03] <asdfasd> if I dont strip the whole jig, what is happening with the surface that is already anodised?
[23:05:06] <rob_h> check out here for alot more info , they do a book to http://www.caswellplating.com/
[23:05:21] <rob_h> nothing, u cant anodze it as will not conduct
[23:05:29] <ssi> rob_h: you ever cleaned an HNC tach?
[23:05:39] <rob_h> but u need to have a bar surface on jig for the new part to get a connection too
[23:05:48] <rob_h> not hnc
[23:05:51] <rob_h> but on superslants yes
[23:05:57] <rob_h> its bad for dirty tacs
[23:06:05] <rob_h> as on end of screw in all the crap
[23:06:31] <rob_h> not on the motor
[23:07:46] <rob_h> asdfasd, there is also a anodizing group on yahoo probly worth checking out too
[23:07:55] <ssi> from what I've gleaned from talking to folks on here and reading, the X tachs tend to get oil in them and cause problems
[23:08:13] <ssi> My X axis shows higher ferror in one direction than the other, which leads me to suspect tach
[23:08:16] <ssi> so I just pulled it
[23:08:19] <ssi> how should I go about cleaning it?
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[23:08:46] <rob_h> i used some switch/contact cleaner
[23:08:50] <asdfasd> one type of the pieces have a little hole - 3mm, can I make a little pins on the jig, which fit tigtly in the hole, do you think that this surface will remain clean for the next pieces?
[23:09:00] <rob_h> something would not damge it .. some solvents might do somethign never know
[23:09:13] <rob_h> gave it a wipe looks like new
[23:09:33] <rob_h> check the cable conections too look ok some times oil gets down cables etc
[23:10:02] <rob_h> yes jigging on holes is good so no jig marks on outside then
[23:10:25] <rob_h> you will need to clean the jig still.. as putting jig in same place again on a new part is like winning the lotor... it never happens to me :P
[23:11:00] <asdfasd> arghhh... then I will look for titanium
[23:11:56] <rob_h> u can weld or spot weld the jig together. that works well
[23:12:38] <asdfasd> thank you so much for your help. I read a lot on internet, but I wanted to discus it with some one with more experience, it is much more clear now
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[23:41:04] <angrychisel> i've got a computer i'm going to donate to a local hackerspace for a linuxcnc project but it's new enough it doesn't have a parallel port
[23:41:29] <angrychisel> what's a cheap card i can pick up to run the drives
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[23:41:52] <angrychisel> the ones in the documentation are kind of obscure
[23:42:01] <ssi> mesa's your best bet
[23:42:11] <ssi> oh you're talking about a parport card specifically
[23:42:13] <ssi> sry nm
[23:42:16] <angrychisel> yeah
[23:42:47] <SWPLinux> Jymmm: ping
[23:42:55] <Jymmm> SWPLinux: pong
[23:43:00] <SWPLinux> boing
[23:43:08] <SWPLinux> hi, from Sunny San Jose :)
[23:43:17] <Jymmm> SWPLinux: Say what?!
[23:43:21] <SWPLinux> hi, from Sunny San Jose :)
[23:43:26] <Jymmm> SWPLinux: Where you be?
[23:43:33] <Jymmm> SWPLinux: ESC ?
[23:43:33] <SWPLinux> at the Hilton, of course
[23:43:36] <SWPLinux> yep
[23:43:45] <Jymmm> SWPLinux: Ah shit, you never said anything!!!
[23:43:49] <angrychisel> you recommend mesa over a gecko for driver?
[23:43:58] <SWPLinux> got in last night at ~10 PM
[23:44:17] <Jymmm> SWPLinux: you mean 20 HOURS ago?
[23:44:22] <SWPLinux> angrychisel: driver and interface card aren't the same thing
[23:44:28] <SWPLinux> Jymmm: yes, about that
[23:44:29] <angrychisel> yeah i know
[23:44:35] <JT-Shop> what SWPLinux said
[23:44:37] <angrychisel> asking about interface card now lol
[23:44:50] <JT-Shop> stepper, servo etc?
[23:44:53] <SWPLinux> Gecko doesn't really have an interface card ...
[23:44:54] <angrychisel> stepper
[23:45:03] <angrychisel> i got a zentoolworks
[23:45:06] <angrychisel> little guy
[23:45:15] <SWPLinux> they had the G100, and I don't know if they have released their new version of that, but I wouldn't recommend either since they're USB
[23:45:16] <JT-Shop> can't hardly beat the 5i25/7i76 combo
[23:45:31] <angrychisel> i need to 7i76?
[23:45:35] <angrychisel> 2
[23:45:35] <JT-Shop> zentoolworks?
[23:45:36] <SWPLinux> Jymmm: got time for dinner some night?
[23:45:37] <angrychisel> oops
[23:45:43] <angrychisel> yeah zentoolworks
[23:45:46] <SWPLinux> I leave Friday morning
[23:45:48] <angrychisel> 7x7
[23:45:53] <JT-Shop> got a link
[23:46:04] <angrychisel> www.zentoolworks.com
[23:46:07] <Jymmm> SWPLinux: Sure, when you thinking? Tonight? 5 minutes before your plane leaves?
[23:46:09] <SWPLinux> is that the same as the zenbot?
[23:46:10] <angrychisel> diy 7x7
[23:46:10] <JT-Shop> you just have the steppers? no drives
[23:46:12] <SWPLinux> heh
[23:46:13] <angrychisel> nah
[23:46:20] <angrychisel> yeah steppers no drive in the kit i got
[23:46:22] <SWPLinux> dinner wouldn't be at 9:00 AM, at least not for me :)
[23:46:27] <angrychisel> they sell the tb6560 driver
[23:46:35] <Jymmm> SWPLinux: Heh
[23:46:36] <angrychisel> but i really not trusting that 6560
[23:46:44] <JT-Shop> G251's are cost effective
[23:46:51] <SWPLinux> whichever night works for you. I'm interested in going to that Indian place again (Mynt)
[23:46:54] <angrychisel> plus i might want to upgrade and reuse parts
[23:47:19] <Jymmm> SWPLinux: Oh, the one with the 54 chicken or something like that
[23:47:47] <SWPLinux> hmmm, could be
[23:48:05] <SWPLinux> near the Lawrence Expressway - we had to circle the (small, triangular) block to get to the entrance
[23:48:23] <Jymmm> SWPLinux: http://www.themynt.com/
[23:49:06] <Jymmm> Chicken 65
[23:49:44] <ssi> angrychisel: mesa will give you more flexibility in the long run
[23:49:48] <Jymmm> SWPLinux: Yep, that's the place
[23:49:51] <angrychisel> that's what i'd like
[23:49:53] <ssi> angrychisel: g540 and a parport card is a cheap way to get started
[23:50:05] <ssi> angrychisel: g540 and a mesa 5i25 is a worthwhile option to look at too
[23:50:39] <angrychisel> thanks for all the help
[23:50:48] <angrychisel> nice being in a irc room where people help
[23:50:52] <Jymmm> SWPLinux: Yeah, I could have the Chicken 65 and a soda, and I'd be good to go! LOL
[23:50:56] <SWPLinux> heh
[23:51:02] <ssi> we were helpful? I'll try to correct that for the future :)
[23:51:07] <angrychisel> hehe
[23:51:11] <SWPLinux> there's also a Moroccan place near here that's very good
[23:51:29] <ssi> angrychisel: what kind of machine are you working on
[23:51:43] <angrychisel> http://www.zentoolworks.com/product_info.php?cPath=14&products_id=74
[23:51:44] <Jymmm> SWPLinux: Moroccan, is that like little snacks, or is that afghani?
[23:51:47] <angrychisel> little cnc
[23:52:03] <ssi> cute
[23:52:07] <SWPLinux> heh
[23:52:08] <ssi> I have a machine very much like that that I built from scratch
[23:52:14] <SWPLinux> I wonder
[23:52:38] <SWPLinux> a traditional Moroccan "feast" has many small-ish courses, but it's not a bunch of snacks
[23:52:41] <SWPLinux> that's more like Tapas (Spanish)
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[23:53:05] <angrychisel> what kind of power supply do i need to drive these?
[23:53:06] <angrychisel> http://wiki.zentoolworks.com/index.php/Nema_17_Stepping_Motor
[23:53:18] <angrychisel> i think i need a 28vdc 5a supply
[23:53:26] <Jymmm> SWPLinux: Yeah, that sounds like what I'm tlaking about. Bunch of little dishes where you can taste/eat what you like.
[23:53:27] <ssi> did you run the inductance formula?
[23:53:39] <angrychisel> total nub here
[23:53:49] <angrychisel> i did not run any formulas
[23:53:50] <Jymmm> SWPLinux: I think it's afganhi too, *shrug* it's good either way.
[23:54:12] <angrychisel> 3*1.68 a
[23:54:17] <angrychisel> 10 x voltage
[23:54:37] <ssi> Maximum Voltage = 1000 * SQRT(inductance)
[23:54:56] <angrychisel> i got a lot of learning to do
[23:55:06] <angrychisel> was hoping to work out the kinks on the little cnc
[23:55:22] <SWPLinux> Jymmm: are you able to go to the Palace BBQ?
[23:55:28] <angrychisel> i'm no electrician either
[23:55:32] <SWPLinux> I think it's been a few years for me
[23:55:38] <SWPLinux> (at least 2)
[23:55:43] <Jymmm> SWPLinux: I'm able to go anywhere =)
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[23:55:52] <ssi> sqrt(0.0028) * 1 000 = 52.9
[23:55:56] <ssi> archivist: I vote 48v supply
[23:56:00] <angrychisel> oh
[23:56:02] <SWPLinux> excellent. I think you had some dietary restriction last year or something
[23:56:03] <ssi> er, angrychisel not archivist
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[23:57:04] <angrychisel> http://www.zentoolworks.com/product_info.php?cPath=16&products_id=93
[23:57:07] <ssi> archivist: keling makes a 7.3A 48v supply that's $50
[23:57:14] <ssi> archivist: and it's more than adequate for your needs
[23:57:15] <angrychisel> that's the power supply they are selling on their site
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[23:57:19] <ssi> I have two of them
[23:57:20] <angrychisel> awesome
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[23:57:46] <ssi> angrychisel: you'll be much happier with the performance of those motors at 48V
[23:57:53] <angrychisel> ok
[23:58:14] <ssi> http://kelinginc.net/SwitchingPowerSupply.html
[23:58:26] <ssi> KL-350-48 48V/7.3A
[23:58:28] <ssi> 110V/230V $49.95
[23:58:31] <angrychisel> ssi: thanks
[23:58:35] <ssi> np
[23:58:47] <ssi> I'm running four 3A 305ozin steppers on my plasma table with that supply
[23:59:00] <angrychisel> what you use for height control
[23:59:05] <ssi> LCTHC
[23:59:14] <angrychisel> lcthc?
[23:59:50] <ssi> http://www.candcnc.com/
[23:59:52] <ssi> they make it
[23:59:56] <ssi> but they also make terrible websites