#linuxcnc | Logs for 2012-03-24

[00:00:34] <Jymmm> tell her she has a big butt?
[00:00:37] <JT-Shop> yes, the fuscking Dr told the state she can't drive any more and the one day she checks the mail...
[00:00:50] <JT-Shop> she weights 90 lbs
[00:01:18] <Jymmm> oh MIL, I thought you said MILL
[00:01:20] <JT-Shop> we had this shit under control... she didn't have a working key to the car
[00:01:36] <JT-Shop> she was happy with a key and the car in sight
[00:01:54] <Jymmm> giv her the key, but pull out the battery
[00:02:18] <JT-Shop> she has had the trunk key for 9 months and was happy with that
[00:02:29] <JT-Shop> damm doctors'
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[00:03:06] <Jymmm> she doens't HAVE to turn over her DL, it just won't be valid to drive is all.
[00:03:28] <JT-Shop> too late now she saw the letter from the state
[00:03:58] <Jymmm> So i take it she's not handling it too well.
[00:04:11] <JT-Shop> not a happy camper...
[00:04:29] <JT-Shop> but the good side is she might forget in 15 minutes
[00:04:38] <Jymmm> Get her a street legal golf cart.
[00:04:49] <Jymmm> with a govenor
[00:05:01] <JT-Shop> tried that with my dad and he rejected that idea
[00:05:26] <Jymmm> street legal? The ones they have today are really pretty cool actually.
[00:05:56] <JT-Shop> she has no desire to drive anywhere it is just the idea in her heat
[00:05:58] <JT-Shop> head
[00:07:11] <Jymmm> Well, just give her another option to dwell on. It's the whole independancy mentality. If she HAS a way to get around still, it gives one that "freedom" even if she never uses it.
[00:08:16] <JT-Shop> EXACTLY, that is what we had set up and the fuasking DR ruined it
[00:09:04] <Jymmm> Well, he legally had to I suppose.
[00:09:08] <JT-Shop> she didn't even have the time or whatever to call us about it...
[00:09:37] <JT-Shop> not really her dad had an accident and she is trying to be a goody about that
[00:09:49] <Jymmm> You could visit another doctor. It's all about POV.
[00:09:51] <JT-Shop> just to make her feel better really
[00:09:59] <JT-Shop> too late now
[00:10:09] <Jymmm> ah
[00:10:11] <JT-Shop> I'
[00:10:18] <JT-Shop> m just pissed about it
[00:10:47] <JT-Shop> anyway thanks for the ear
[00:10:59] <Jymmm> I understand, another doctor could reinstate the license, then you just pull the distributor cap
[00:11:21] <JT-Shop> the key she has only opens the door and the trunk...
[00:11:29] <JT-Shop> no worries
[00:11:33] <Jymmm> ah, heh
[00:11:46] <JT-Shop> we fixed that a long time ago
[00:11:53] <Jymmm> Wait till she tries to drive the tractor!
[00:12:25] <JT-Shop> she only weighs 90 lbs soaking wet ....
[00:12:48] <JT-Shop> the clutch takes more than that
[00:12:56] <Jymmm> ah
[00:13:10] <JT-Shop> on the tractor that is
[00:13:37] <Jymmm> Wut, you can't do 30mph in first gear???
[00:13:59] <JT-Shop> anyway the shit has hit the fan and now we have to spread it in the garden...
[00:14:19] <JT-Shop> you can't do 30 in high 4th
[00:14:31] <JT-Shop> 28 IIRC
[00:14:58] <Jymmm> Never drove a tractor before, so wouldn't know.
[00:15:38] <JT-Shop> it's a real workout with manual steering and manual everything
[00:16:30] <Jymmm> Hmmm, I wanna build a street legal trike without welding anything
[00:16:46] <JT-Shop> that would be a challenge
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[00:17:09] <JT-Shop> http://www.everythingattachments.com/v/vspfiles/assets/images/masf40.jpg
[00:17:13] <Jymmm> yeah, lots of drilling and bolting
[00:17:18] <JT-Shop> yea
[00:17:28] <Jymmm> is that your tractor?
[00:17:39] <JT-Shop> the same as mine
[00:17:50] <JT-Shop> but not an actual photo of mine
[00:17:50] <Jymmm> Oh, I thought you had a CAT or JD
[00:18:06] <JT-Shop> I have a JD 310A backhoe
[00:18:13] <Jymmm> ah, ok.
[00:19:07] <Jymmm> I dont even have a bender, and I dont know if a simple bender would do 1" thickwall steel tubing
[00:19:22] <Jymmm> or 1x2 tubing
[00:19:45] <JT-Shop> 1x2 would be tough
[00:19:54] <JT-Shop> http://www.fastline.com/flimages/internet/040/221/4985119_1.jpg
[00:20:08] <JT-Shop> close to mine but I have real tires
[00:20:15] <JT-Shop> and the real seat
[00:20:18] <Jymmm> yeah, that's what I thought you had, but a tad nicer
[00:21:11] <Jymmm> Shit, I'd need 1) to learn to weld, 2) get a welder, 3) get a chop saw
[00:21:35] <JT-Shop> I want to build a T bucket for some reason
[00:21:43] <Jymmm> a what?
[00:21:51] <JT-Shop> band saw is better
[00:22:03] <JT-Shop> Model T 27' street rod
[00:22:21] <JT-Shop> cannon is almost done you know
[00:22:26] <Jymmm> maybe, but a chop saw is so quick on steel tubing.
[00:22:30] <JT-Shop> civil war is over
[00:22:42] <JT-Shop> you ever drive a chop saw?
[00:22:50] <Jymmm> at least till you get more gunpowder
[00:22:58] <Jymmm> no, but I've used one.
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[00:23:22] <JT-Shop> they suck and stink and taste terrible
[00:23:39] <JT-Shop> but they are cheaper than a band saw
[00:23:46] <Jymmm> I like the smell actually, and I have a full face shield
[00:24:16] <JT-Shop> ...
[00:24:43] <JT-Shop> well time to find out what fun we will have tonight
[00:24:48] <JT-Shop> talk to you later
[00:24:52] <Jymmm> hasta!
[00:25:00] <JT-Shop> say goodnight Gracie!
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[00:25:18] <Jymmm> G'Night Groucho!
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[01:09:43] <Gabe_> hello! If one wanted to use an encoder with linuxcnc for position feedback just using the parallel port. What would be the recommended resolution for real time results?
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[01:12:57] <pcw> minimum is 1 sample per quadrature state +- basethread jitter and +- quadrature error
[01:12:58] <pcw> so a rough rule of thumb might be 1 count per 2 samples so if you can manage a 20 KHz base thread, a 10 KHZ count rate is practical
[01:14:52] <pcw> so for example: 10KHz is 200 counts * 50 RPS=3000 RPM so ~3000 RPM with a 50 line = 200 count encoder
[01:15:05] <Gabe_> thanks for the response, i have been searching for that information
[01:15:54] <pcw> The lower the base thread jitter, the better you can do
[01:16:30] <Gabe_> i believe my base jitter around 9000, i am not around the machine right now. but that sounds about right.
[01:18:55] <pcw> So you might be able to count to 25 or so KHz with a 50 KHz base thread (20 uSec = twice your jitter)
[01:19:53] <pcw> also depend on quadrature error (how far from 90 degrees the A and B phases are)
[01:20:29] <pcw> some encoders are really good, some lousy in this repect
[01:22:15] <Gabe_> i have two possible location to mount the encoder, either the back of the motor on the smaller shaft, or directly to the ball screw. Would it be harder to tune with it on the ball screw? i thought i would be good for recognizing any slips between the motor and coupling.
[01:25:02] <pcw> Not really sure, there may be some torsional resonance in the ball screw/coupling that
[01:25:04] <pcw> might cause tuning difficulties but that is just a guess
[01:26:52] <Gabe_> True i guess trial and error will be the only true way, and im sure results very depending on the machine setup.
[01:28:09] <pcw> that they will...
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[01:39:54] <ssi> jdhnc: ferrules are helping a LOT... thanks for the suggestion :)
[01:41:12] <ssi> https://p.twimg.com/Aotz6JfCIAAIJk3.jpg:large
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[01:59:53] <jdhnc> looks good, got jumpers?
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[03:54:19] <ssi> jdhnc: yea I have jumpers
[03:54:46] <ssi> well, the little orange ones that bridge two blocks
[03:54:49] <ssi> you can see them in that pic
[03:55:16] <ssi> the way I'm doing it is wiring the machine signals to the bottom (and top on the top rail) of the block, and the control signals to the top (or bottom) side
[03:56:12] <ssi> thusly: http://p.twimg.com/AouS1wjCMAAebq-.jpg:large
[03:56:48] <jdhnc> but, you have no Panduit(tm)
[03:57:35] <ssi> the only panduit I know about are the tie-wrap guns
[03:57:38] <ssi> of which I have three
[03:58:30] <jdhnc> http://images3.cableorganizer.com/panduit/wire-duct/DHNDuct-application.jpg
[03:59:05] <ssi> ah
[03:59:28] <jdhnc> http://images1.cableorganizer.com/panduit/wire-duct/wide-slot/images/01-DHDUCTLG-wide-slot.jpg
[03:59:54] <ssi> I have this
[04:00:00] <jdhnc> do you have a good way of cutting the outer sheath on many-conductor wire?
[04:00:06] <ssi> http://cableorganizer.com/panduit/gs4mt-cable-tie-installation-tool.html
[04:00:11] <ssi> two of those
[04:00:26] <ssi> and one http://cableorganizer.com/panduit/gs4h-cable-tie-installation-tool.html
[04:00:34] <jdhnc> dman, that's a pricey tie wrap tool!
[04:00:37] <ssi> yeah
[04:00:38] <ssi> but they're awesome
[04:00:42] <ssi> and I buy them surplus
[04:00:47] <ssi> secondhand boeing stuff
[04:00:56] <ssi> usually around $200
[04:01:12] <jdhnc> we have no surplus where I work...too bad.
[04:01:19] <ssi> I haven't had to actually cut back any multiconductor sheath thankfully
[04:01:31] <ssi> bt I'd probably use a coax stripper or a razorblade if I had to
[04:01:39] <jdhnc> most of the good stuff gets shipped to khazikstan or however you spell it.
[04:01:43] <pfred1> sharp scissors works if you have the touch
[04:02:06] <jdhnc> I use the wire cutter part of my strippers, but sometimes I go too far
[04:02:09] <ssi> if you've got the touchhhhhh.... if you've got the powahhhh
[04:02:31] <Jymmm> ssi: dont give up your day job
[04:02:34] <ssi> :D
[04:02:35] <pfred1> I got banned from ##electronics telling an op that here
[04:03:29] <pfred1> because scissors also strips teflon wire well
[04:03:52] <ssi> tefzel strippers ftw
[04:03:52] -!- mode/#linuxcnc [+o Jymmm] by ChanServ
[04:03:54] <pfred1> ...if you've got the touch ...
[04:03:56] * Jymmm sets mode: +b pfred1!*@*
[04:04:03] -!- mode/#linuxcnc [-o Jymmm] by ChanServ
[04:04:36] <ssi> lul
[04:04:59] <pfred1> I have a coax stripper
[04:05:22] <jdhnc> I have several coax strippers, none of them work well.
[04:05:33] <pfred1> they do if you take the time to set them up
[04:05:49] <pfred1> only time it is worth it is if you're doing a lot of the same size wire
[04:05:54] <Jymmm> jdhnc: dollar bills, not rolls of quarters
[04:06:15] <jdhnc> damn, that was the problem.
[04:06:51] <Jymmm> jdhnc: The quarters make them slip and fall wearing 9" heels
[04:07:03] <pfred1> the one i have looks like this http://www.mbelectronics.com/images\items\200-005.JPG
[04:07:30] <jdhnc> I have one that looks like that, not dual blades though
[04:07:34] <ssi> I also have a full set of daniels pin crimpers
[04:07:39] <ssi> which is like $3000 worth of bullshit
[04:07:41] <pfred1> yeah mine's a dualie
[04:07:48] <ssi> including all the inserts, turrets, insertion and extraction tools, etc
[04:08:01] <ssi> word of advice: don't ever try to build an airplane
[04:08:03] <ssi> shit's not cheap
[04:08:19] <pfred1> guy that used to live across the street from me built 5
[04:08:38] <pfred1> he was Fidel's dentist
[04:08:57] <pfred1> now oyu know why he needed 5 homebuilt planes :)
[04:09:10] <jdhnc> I got my Intel D525 board today, looks really good (for the price too)
[04:09:36] <Jymmm> These work great and they sell replacement blades too http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062637
[04:09:59] <pfred1> Jymmm Rat Shack is a poor excuse for a cell phone kiosk
[04:10:00] <jdhnc> I don't do much coax
[04:10:04] <Jymmm> The orange insert rotates to the size you need
[04:10:17] <Jymmm> pfred1: Doens't matter, THEY don't make it, just sell it.
[04:10:24] <Jymmm> bbl
[04:10:31] <pfred1> all they ever made was coaxial wire
[04:11:03] <pfred1> I don't think they even make that anymore though
[04:11:12] <jdhnc> they made my TRS80!
[04:11:21] <pfred1> I don't think they did
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[04:14:46] <ssi> http://p.twimg.com/AouXANKCIAAuEHq.jpg:large
[04:14:49] <ssi> limit switch signals!
[04:16:19] <pfred1> are those fuses?
[04:16:52] <pfred1> they kind of look like resistors too but then again what's the difference?
[04:17:03] <ssi> they're resistors
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[04:17:12] <ssi> current limit resistors
[04:17:36] <pfred1> ssi pass enough current through them and they make OK fuses too
[04:17:58] <ssi> takes a lot of voltage to pass a half watt through a 50 ohm resistor :D
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[04:19:15] <Valen> bah too neat
[04:19:16] <Valen> try again
[04:20:30] <ssi> don't worry.. once I Start troubleshooting, it'll all get torn apart and never go back this neatly
[04:20:33] <ssi> I promise :D
[04:20:57] <pfred1> ssi it only takes 5 volts
[04:21:43] <ssi> pfred1: it's a 3.3v io pin
[04:22:05] <pfred1> ssi you said it took a lot of volts I don't usually consider 5 a lot
[04:22:24] <ssi> half watt resistors don't fail open at a half watt
[04:22:56] <pfred1> I didn't say they would but you'd be running a half of a watt through them at 5 volts
[04:25:34] <pfred1> like i said fuses resistors same thing
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[04:31:48] <pfred1> V=SQRT(WR)
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[04:34:47] <pfred1> @ 100 Ohms you'd need 7.07 Volts to draw a half a Watt
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[05:08:54] <Nick001> I noticed hardinge used resisters with all the hall effect micro switches - limit switches on the axes
[05:09:17] <Nick001> I just hooked 12v to them and it worked ok
[05:11:09] <pfred1> take a 50 ohm half watt resistor and put it across a car battery and tell me how that works for you :)
[05:14:01] <Nick001> fried of course - these are inline with the 12v - not hooked to gnd
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[05:18:35] <ssi> god he's still beating that horse?
[05:18:38] <ssi> it's been almost an hour
[05:20:39] <Jymmm> tenderized bbq horse
[05:23:40] <Jymmm> Though, if I tenderize that long, I'd just have shredded meat
[05:24:05] <ssi> speaking of shredded meat
[05:24:19] <ssi> I need to make one of these
[05:24:19] <ssi> http://www.porkpuller.com/
[05:24:56] <Jymmm> S L O W E S T website ever
[05:25:06] <ssi> watch the video if you can
[05:28:08] <Jymmm> heh, 4 seconds
[05:29:17] <pfred1> Jymmm the slowest website is hosted on a potato
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[05:29:55] <pfred1> it ain't easy getting a spud to serve html!
[05:30:09] <Jymmm> ssi: These work really well for lifting/carrying/pulling http://www.amazon.com/Bear-Paw-Meat-Handler-Forks/dp/B003IWI66W and the tips stay sharp too
[05:30:49] <Jymmm> ssi: half the price here https://www.industrialkitchenequipment.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=1219
[05:31:07] <ssi> nice
[05:31:31] <Jymmm> pfred1: I have no idea what your talking about, but here's a bunny with a pancake on it's head
[05:31:55] <pfred1> Jymmm 01:18 < Jymmm> S L O W E S T website ever
[05:32:04] <Jymmm> ssi: they make good for carving meat too
[05:32:27] <Jymmm> pfred1: Ok, here's a pancake with a bunny on top
[05:33:03] <Jymmm> pfred1: In other words, you still aen't making much sense with what a potato has to do with a slow server
[05:33:27] <pfred1> Jymmm http://totl.net/Spud/gallery.html
[05:34:34] <Jymmm> pfred1: is it real or another hoax?
[05:36:07] <pfred1> Jymmm that may or may not be a real spud server but I've accessed one and it was very slow
[05:36:57] <Jymmm> Heh, well it looks like it got /. so that would make sense.
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[05:38:22] <pfred1> Jymmm that page is just a page about it not a page served off the actual spud
[05:39:07] <Jymmm> you know, i have a 64MB DoC, I could probably do the same thing. I think I have a Pentium aroudn here somewhere. Ill have to see what it's wattage draw is.
[05:39:41] <Jymmm> I do have a working 486, but it's in perfect condition so not going to mess with that
[05:42:00] <ssi> make a web server powered by a stirling engine
[05:42:27] <Jymmm> I'd rather make it power a light than a webserver
[05:42:46] <ssi> I want to build a stirling engine that'll sit on top of my imac (which gets quite hot)
[05:42:49] <ssi> and power a fan
[05:43:16] <Jymmm> clean out your imac then
[05:43:42] <ssi> it's plenty clean
[05:43:45] <ssi> it's just full up with hot things
[05:43:49] <ssi> like quad core i7s
[05:43:55] <ssi> and graphics cards
[05:44:20] <Jymmm> in an imac?!
[05:44:23] <ssi> yeah
[05:44:29] <ssi> where'v you been? :P
[05:44:34] <Jymmm> seems a waste as opposed to a desktop
[05:44:45] <ssi> it is a desktop :P
[05:45:00] <Jymmm> no, it's a hybrd lcd
[05:45:24] <ssi> it's a really spectacular monitor stuffed full of a pretty decent computer
[05:45:37] <Jymmm> that overheats
[05:45:42] <ssi> doesn't overheat
[05:45:43] <ssi> just gets hot
[05:45:45] <Jymmm> like ALL aple products
[05:45:51] <frysteev_> its a space heater
[05:46:09] <ssi> hot > noisy
[05:46:14] <frysteev_> i have a macbookpro, the one people used to cook bacon on
[05:46:39] <Jymmm> I watch netflix and the temp on my mbp jumps big time
[05:47:01] <ssi> that's cause silverlight is shitty :P
[05:47:16] <Jymmm> still
[05:47:30] <frysteev_> they just ant you warm and cozy while watching neflix
[05:47:39] <Thetawaves> you may not notice similar heat (even though it exists) on other laptops because they don't use the case as the cpu heatsink
[05:48:13] <Jymmm> Thetawaves: No, I hae a taskbar fan rpm and cpu temp gauge, I know =)
[05:48:27] <Jymmm> 2K rpm and 165f atm
[05:48:30] <Thetawaves> what?
[05:48:38] <ssi> my mbp is nothing like my old vaio in terms of heat
[05:48:42] <ssi> that vaio gave me lap blisters
[05:48:44] <ssi> it was awful
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[05:50:07] <Jymmm> Thetawaves: http://i41.tinypic.com/s1q0eg.jpg
[05:52:00] <Thetawaves> so what?
[06:05:24] <ssi> ok turret solenoids are measuring 56mA to operate
[06:05:29] <ssi> I probably should put those on a relay
[06:09:50] <alex4nder> yoh
[06:10:37] <Thetawaves> just use a transistor
[06:10:54] <Thetawaves> you will have to use a transistor if you want to throw a relay too
[06:11:22] <ssi> shouldn't have to
[06:11:32] <ssi> depends on the control coil current
[06:11:38] <Thetawaves> what is the driver?
[06:11:44] <Thetawaves> any micro, and you definitely have to
[06:12:10] <ssi> I'm controlling SSRs no problem with gpio pins
[06:12:19] <ssi> prolly use SSRs to run the solenoids
[06:12:20] <Thetawaves> ssr != relay
[06:12:31] <Thetawaves> ssr has an optocoupler inside
[06:12:33] <ssi> it's got relay right in the name :P
[06:12:34] <Thetawaves> so 20ma
[06:12:48] <Thetawaves> or less
[06:12:53] <ssi> I have a bunch of electromechanical relays, but I just looked at them and they're 24vdc
[06:12:58] <ssi> and I don't feel like dicking with 24V
[06:13:01] <ssi> so SSR it is
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[06:13:29] <Thetawaves> what is the on current for your ssrs
[06:13:54] <ssi> pretty low
[06:13:57] <ssi> like 6ma I think
[06:14:02] <Thetawaves> :D
[06:14:39] <Thetawaves> you need a robust driver for coils because of dirty back emf
[06:15:05] <Thetawaves> even with freewheeling diodes it can wreak havoc on small micro controllers
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[06:16:05] * Thetawaves has 24v servos
[06:16:07] <ssi> I dunno what used to drive these damn things
[06:16:15] <ssi> probably the 24v electromechanical relays
[06:16:22] <Thetawaves> and i built a 24v 300w hbridge driver for them
[06:17:15] <Jymmm> ssi: https://www.google.com/search?q=ULN2803
[06:18:00] <Thetawaves> weird
[06:18:15] <Thetawaves> i didn't even know an 8 channel variant of the uln2003 existed
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[06:19:16] <Thetawaves> wow, uln2803 is 2x as much as the uln2003
[06:19:32] <Thetawaves> not a huge deal in small quantities
[06:19:44] <Thetawaves> 0.25 vs 0.50$ :D
[06:19:57] <Jymmm> Thetawaves: so what?
[06:20:22] <Thetawaves> it's just a habit of being an electrical circuit designer
[06:20:44] <Thetawaves> a lot of cool parts exist at a price
[06:21:42] <Thetawaves> when you design a circuit and try to build a 100 units, negligible price differences such as those can mean real money
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[06:32:03] <Valen> also tends to lead to parts that are "just good enough" going in rather than a more reliable part
[06:32:23] <Jymmm> Valen++
[06:32:52] <Valen> then the Chinese realise they can replace the brownout detection IC with a piece of wire
[06:33:39] <Jymmm> fuse?
[06:33:54] <Valen> no
[06:34:06] <Jymmm> =(
[06:34:07] <Thetawaves> brownout is where the power falls below acceptable levels
[06:34:08] <Valen> just air wire a component leg over to the mcu
[06:34:11] <Thetawaves> causes random resets
[06:35:33] <Valen> so your mcu rather than having a seconds warning that power is going down and safing everything, or killing the power to the mcu so it can't do anything daft, decides to randomly restart, execute random instructions and generally try its best to kill whatever its attached to
[06:36:25] <Valen> but the chinese manufacturer saved 10 cents per board and pocketed it
[06:36:33] <Thetawaves> the 'glitch' technique used to crack into hardware is based off of this principal
[06:36:55] <Valen> or a torch i got, where they just took all the components off the board and wired the battery direct to the LED
[06:37:07] <Thetawaves> lol
[06:37:45] <Valen> they kept the PCB, even gold plated it, but in the "sealed" end of the torch you could see they just had the led wires poking into where a power conditioning cap was meant to go
[06:38:18] <Valen> oh yeah, and bypass caps are for wimps
[06:39:05] <Valen> (so are products that don't spontaneously lock up)
[06:40:25] <pfred1> consumer grade electronics works great for what it costs
[06:40:42] <Valen> thats the thing it doesnt
[06:40:47] <Thetawaves> yeah i've heard wonderful stories of china vs most other places
[06:40:51] <pfred1> it is amazing PCs even work at all for what htey are and cost
[06:40:55] <Thetawaves> the main difference, the chinese shit works
[06:41:03] <Valen> for an extra 15% they would be reliable
[06:41:38] <pfred1> then I assembled electronics we had two chinese girls that worked there
[06:41:50] <pfred1> I swear they're just naturally gifted assembling electronics
[06:42:16] <pfred1> the boss would only let them stuff PCBs
[06:52:30] <Valen> don't get me wrong, good stuff can be made in china, but QC has to be eagle eyed and always on the job, and preferably not from china
[06:52:58] <Valen> oh yeah, and trusting of no-one
[06:54:24] <Valen> (with all the fake electronics floating about)
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[06:58:03] <pfred1> I've lost 2 motherboards to capacitors
[06:58:34] <pfred1> when I figure it out it is never worth recapping them either
[06:59:12] <pfred1> for a little more than what the caps cost I can get a whole new board
[07:00:09] <pfred1> my TV died and I put new caps in it though
[07:00:32] <ssi> I recapped a tek 420 tds
[07:00:34] <ssi> that was worth doing
[07:01:05] <pfred1> it was worth recapping my TV i just replaced 4
[07:01:33] <pfred1> $1,400 TV
[07:01:45] <Valen> motherboards these days advertise themselves with all solid japanese capacitors
[07:01:59] <pfred1> yeah my new one has SS caps
[07:02:08] <tom1987> i want write one msg for wait of encoder input, but i don't know how to make.any help?
[07:02:17] <Jymmm> stainless steel caps?
[07:02:23] <pfred1> solid state
[07:02:29] <Valen> I'm building a joystick for my computer currently
[07:02:31] <Jymmm> it has solicone in them?
[07:02:35] <Jymmm> silicone
[07:02:56] <Valen> I want ~65535 counts over ~40 degrees of travel, any suggestions?
[07:03:06] <Valen> its a ~60k count encoder :-<
[07:03:19] <ssi> clever gearing?
[07:03:20] <Jymmm> Valen: division
[07:03:34] <Valen> gearing up sounds like a bad idea
[07:04:04] <Valen> Jymmm: division?
[07:04:28] <Jymmm> Valen: multiplication?
[07:04:39] <ssi> I don't see how you're going to get 64k counts out of a 60k line encoder in less than a turn without gearing
[07:04:47] <Thetawaves> put the encoder on the motor, the motor drives a pulley, pulley drives your axis
[07:05:18] <Valen> i meant if you were to achieve this resolution with an encoder it will require an encoder of ~60k counts per revolution
[07:05:37] <Valen> IE its impractically expensive for an optical encoder
[07:05:45] <Valen> I can get 12 bit hall effect rotary encoders but they only give 512 counts over the 40 degree range
[07:05:55] <Thetawaves> why not use x counts per rev * pulley ratio = 65k
[07:06:09] <Valen> Thetawaves: its a joystick, not a mill
[07:06:10] <ssi> Valen: my math says 600k
[07:06:14] <Thetawaves> ohhh
[07:06:21] <Valen> ssi: i could well be off by a factor of 10
[07:06:24] <Valen> ;->
[07:06:37] <ssi> 360/40 is 9, 9*64k is ~600k
[07:06:40] <Valen> yeah
[07:06:45] <Valen> i just did the same
[07:06:47] <Valen> your right
[07:06:51] <Valen> 589815
[07:07:19] <Thetawaves> you should just gear up
[07:07:27] <Valen> The only thing i can think of that'd come close would be some kind of ball bearing resolver thing
[07:07:39] <Valen> Thetawaves: i'm trying to minimise the number of moving parts
[07:07:52] <pfred1> Valen what is a ball bearing resolver thing?
[07:07:54] <Thetawaves> but you could save so much money by avoiding 600k count encoders
[07:08:14] <Valen> Thetawaves: the idea is not to use optical encoders, they are not suitable
[07:08:35] <ssi> resolver is likely a good choice
[07:08:39] <pfred1> Valen why aren't they?
[07:08:44] <ssi> number of steps over a range is only limited by your AD
[07:08:58] <Valen> pfred1: because 600k count encoders are kinda expensive
[07:09:23] <Thetawaves> afaik optical is just one way quadrature encoders are made
[07:09:26] <pfred1> I bet if you were slick you could do it wiht an optical mouse
[07:09:54] <Valen> pfred1: possibly but the update rate would suffer
[07:10:03] <Valen> I need absolute positioning at 1khz
[07:10:12] <ssi> some sort of mems device
[07:10:24] <ssi> what's the application anyway
[07:10:31] <Valen> computer joystic
[07:10:41] <Valen> I want one that isnt a pile of expensive plastic crap
[07:10:57] <ssi> instead you want one that's a pile of expensive 600k encoder crap?
[07:11:13] <pfred1> like i said optical mouse
[07:11:13] <Valen> i don't want to use 600k encoders
[07:11:31] <Thetawaves> camshaft positioning uses differential hall effect sensors mounted around a cam, you are only limited to your AD converter
[07:11:44] <Valen> and the sensor sensitivity
[07:11:59] <Valen> http://newall.com/news/?nwid=23 btw
[07:12:35] <Valen> the magnetic hall effect sensors I mentioned that gave 12 bits of resolution for a rotation are done that way
[07:12:47] <Valen> I was planning on using those, but the resolution is too low
[07:13:11] <Valen> although a belt driven 10:1 gear up would look damn sexy in the stick itself lol
[07:13:11] <ssi> one way or another you need multiple rotations over the length of your travel
[07:13:33] <Valen> ssi yeah, thats why I was thinking of making it into a linear measurement problem instead
[07:13:41] <ssi> yeah that makes sense
[07:13:59] <ssi> can you get a linear encoder with enough counts over a throw that works for you?
[07:13:59] <Valen> expensive or challenging sense is my concern lol
[07:14:09] <Valen> thats the question
[07:14:16] <ssi> yes I know, that's why I asked it :D
[07:14:37] <Valen> lesse, we need 60k counts over a distance, what is a "nice" distance for 60k counts?
[07:14:59] <Valen> hmm this is sounding bad
[07:15:01] <ssi> what are glass scales typically... 20um, something like that?
[07:15:15] <Valen> with .01mm (cheap) * 60k = 600mm
[07:15:30] <ssi> yea
[07:15:36] <Valen> my expensive glass scales are .001 which makes it 60mm which is still pretty excessive
[07:15:39] <pfred1> what is that in english?
[07:15:50] <ssi> 20" or so?
[07:15:53] <Valen> 23.622047244
[07:16:01] <pfred1> almost 2 feet
[07:16:04] <ssi> or 2.3" for 60mm throw
[07:16:06] <ssi> still too long
[07:16:17] <Valen> 60mm i could probably swing
[07:16:26] <Thetawaves> Valen, there are very precise differential hall effect sensors
[07:16:30] <Valen> it really is sounding like gearing it up is the "best" answer
[07:16:39] <ssi> Valen: laser rangefinder!
[07:16:45] <Valen> Thetawaves: i guess they cost more than the $3 i was looking at
[07:16:58] <Valen> ssi: sure, if you want to measure it over eleventy million km ;-P
[07:17:03] <ssi> ELEVENTY MILLION
[07:17:13] <Valen> some kind of interferometer perhaps
[07:17:32] <ssi> echolocation
[07:17:39] <Valen> perhaps pfred1s optical mouse could be made to work
[07:17:49] <Valen> but with a twist
[07:17:51] <ssi> resolver is worth exploring
[07:18:02] <Valen> xmit a laser in an X shape onto the sensor
[07:18:13] <Valen> add gobs of processing power, and determine the angle of the X
[07:18:20] <pfred1> Valen see what your cycloptic friend informs you
[07:18:21] <ssi> sounds awful
[07:18:23] <Valen> with a 300K image sensor you should get pretty accurate
[07:18:42] <ssi> shine a light on the shaft and measure the brightness of the reflection
[07:18:45] <ssi> cosine gives you angle
[07:18:47] <Valen> I do like that it should be insensitive to pretty much anything
[07:18:58] <Valen> again accuracy is hard doing it that way
[07:19:07] <ssi> accuracy schmaccuracy
[07:19:18] <Valen> you can't take a shortcut, you need perfect optics and peltier cooled sensors ;-P
[07:19:42] <ssi> I prefer peltier cooled beers
[07:19:52] <Valen> I prefer my beer in the fridge
[07:19:54] <pfred1> I like ales
[07:20:25] <Valen> I was half hoping the sensors they use in those digital calipers would do, but no way that'll work
[07:20:35] <ssi> they're just shitty glass scales
[07:20:42] <Valen> no they use no optics
[07:20:44] <ssi> er
[07:20:46] <ssi> magnetic or something
[07:20:56] <Valen> its all capacative pickup from a PCB under the scale
[07:21:05] <ssi> yea there's the one
[07:21:12] <pfred1> I bought 2 different models from HF one i like the other pair man they suck
[07:21:55] <Valen> dad had one set get the screen smashed
[07:22:05] <Valen> i replaced the "measurement" module for $3
[07:22:11] <Valen> he loves it, has huge digits lol
[07:23:04] <ssi> I sleep now
[07:23:06] <pfred1> the ones they sell with the auto off I like
[07:23:11] <ssi> tomorrow must fix all the bullshit on the lathe so I can make parts
[07:23:15] <pfred1> the ones wiht manual off blow
[07:23:21] <Valen> have fun ssi
[07:23:28] <Valen> yeah agree with you on that pfred1
[07:23:55] <pfred1> and it isn't just the auto off the auto off ones have other features that just make them nicer
[07:24:27] <Valen> people have hooked them up for DRO
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[07:24:39] <pfred1> I thnk I'm going to screw the sucky pair i have to the downfeed on my mill
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[07:36:06] <Valen> http://www.analog.com/en/analog-to-digital-converters/synchroresolver-to-digital-converters/ad2s90/products/product.html#ppa_print_table has a different definition of "low cost" to me
[07:36:29] <Valen> $90 from my usual supplier
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[07:55:56] <DJ9DJ> moin
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[08:59:01] <Valen> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2Rnqc6LoRo
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[10:38:26] <elmo40> helicopter, such OLD tech... gotta get rid of the very vulnerable rotating wing! This is the new way of thinking. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pF0uLnMoQZA
[10:39:54] <Loetmichel> elmo40: MUCH unneccessary weight
[10:40:26] <Loetmichel> and tha efficienca of a fan inside THAT much Flaps and obstacles is at lest doubtful .
[10:40:31] <Loetmichel> and: OLD
[10:40:42] <Loetmichel> -a+y
[10:41:07] <elmo40> more robust
[10:41:12] <elmo40> can take a hit ;)
[10:41:54] <Loetmichel> made one if this myself...
[10:41:54] <elmo40> chopper falls down, this will keep you moving
[10:42:22] <Loetmichel> but much simpeler
[10:43:36] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=6743
[10:44:52] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=4153
[10:45:20] <Loetmichel> but never flown it
[10:45:31] <Loetmichel> to much projects, to less time ;-)
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[12:10:54] <A2Sheds> hmm I need a 12HP DC motor driver with -/+ 10V in
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[12:16:02] <JT-Shop> I need to get my mind right about this loop-d-loop
[12:18:05] <joe9> i get a lot of warnings like this in linuxcnc build: http://codepad.org/gzmDUQv4 . i think they are ok. but, just wanted to double check.: http://codepad.org/sFQZX2q1
[12:18:12] <joe9> warning: #warning "Attempt to use kernel headers from user space, see http://kernelnewbies.org/KernelHeaders"
[12:18:38] <joe9> i did "make headers_install" in the kernel src directory.
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[12:49:57] <frysteev_> moening
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[13:18:26] <raynerd> my limit switches have just arrived in the post and I`m not a little confused about how to wire them! Each switch has three terminals. Anyone explain to me in simple terms??!
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[13:23:19] <archivist> sounds like change over switches use the common and no or nc depending which way you use them
[13:24:59] <dgarr> examples updates for consideration (2.5): http://www.panix.com/~dgarrett/stuff/ngcgui_examples_update.mbox
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[13:41:09] <jthornton> Hi Dewey!
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[13:43:05] <raynerd> Sorry, another question. I just had to reinstall linux on my pc and so I saved my config file.
[13:44:21] <raynerd> I`ve used step config wizard and clicked modify and selected my backed up config file, ran through it all and it has correctly made a new folder raynerdCNC and RaynerdCNC.desktop.
[13:45:14] <raynerd> Previously, when I selected RaynerdCNC.desktop, it would open up linuxcnc with the RaynerdCNC settings. Now when I click it, it tells me that it is an "untrusted application launcher" ...bla bla and my only option is to select cancel.
[13:45:48] <raynerd> How do I make it trusted. This never happened last time when I made the intial configuration on my previous install.
[13:45:50] <raynerd> instal*
[13:46:11] <raynerd> nope, I was correct, 2 x l = *install
[13:46:59] <jdhnc> same linux installer?
[13:47:06] <raynerd> yes, same CD
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[13:48:00] <jdhnc> perms are probably wrong
[13:48:08] <raynerd> It works OK if I go to linux CNC from the top menu of the desktop and then select raynerCNC configuration from the first splash screen. It just seems to be this shortcut that isn`t working correctly.
[13:48:39] <raynerd> I`m not into linux so no idea what to even try!
[13:49:16] <jdhnc> open a terminal window, ls -alF *.desktop, paste the line that has your emc config
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[13:51:52] <raynerd> ls -alF *.desktop - No such file or directory
[13:53:00] <jdhnc> heh, I don't have any either. Wonder what I was thinking of :)
[13:53:16] <raynerd> :-S
[13:53:23] <Mjolinor> scrap it :)
[13:53:40] <jdhnc> I could have sworn that's what they were, but I haven't actually looked at one in years
[13:53:47] <raynerd> lol hello Mjolinor..how do?
[13:53:53] <Mjolinor> good
[13:53:58] <Mjolinor> did seom numebrs
[13:54:17] <Mjolinor> http://homepage.ntlworld.com/dknpower/clock1.jpg
[13:54:24] <Mjolinor> http://homepage.ntlworld.com/dknpower/clock2.jpg
[13:54:56] <raynerd> wow! very nice!!!
[13:55:06] <raynerd> that in brass with the engraving bit?
[13:55:13] <Mjolinor> yup
[13:55:18] <Mjolinor> with a 90 degfree one
[13:55:29] <Mjolinor> I tried it with the point ones and it jsut snapped
[13:55:46] <raynerd> 90 deg ?
[13:56:11] <raynerd> I know what 90 deg is...which cutters are those was really my question.
[13:56:54] <Mjolinor> they are the same as the ones oyu have but the end is 90, did you not see them here?
[13:57:08] <Mjolinor> you didnt stay long enough :)
[13:57:14] <raynerd> nope...
[13:57:28] <raynerd> I would have but you were hvaing your tea!
[13:57:38] <raynerd> do you have an ebay link so I can order some?
[13:58:09] <Mjolinor> you dont want them from where I got them, it took me over 3 months to sort the ebay sale out, they kept getting it wonrg, it got rather nasty actually
[13:58:21] <Mjolinor> the seller was supermario
[13:58:30] <Mjolinor> but that company I go thte last ones fomr have them I think
[13:58:33] <Mjolinor> hang on
[14:00:04] <raynerd> I was quite chuffed with the little part I`d made last night, first proper steps anyway! www.raynerd.co.uk/images/isobel.jpg
[14:00:16] <Mjolinor> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5-Carbide-PCB-Engraving-Bit-CNC-Router-Tool-90-1-/310341406865?pt=UK_Home_Garden_PowerTools_SM&hash=item4841ca1091
[14:00:23] <jdhnc> raynerd: it is in ~/Desktop
[14:00:27] <Mjolinor> :)
[14:00:36] <Mjolinor> did you do the font with inkscape?
[14:00:43] <Mjolinor> or vcarve?
[14:01:05] <Mjolinor> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5-Carbide-PCB-Engraving-Bit-CNC-Tool-90-0-3mm-1-/230666745529?pt=UK_Home_Garden_PowerTools_SM&hash=item35b4cf36b9
[14:01:25] <Mjolinor> two differnet tip sizes there, mine are 0.2 but I hink it needs to be smaller for engraving
[14:01:48] <raynerd> so is the tip size the flat?
[14:02:01] <Mjolinor> yes
[14:02:02] <Mjolinor> the end
[14:02:17] <Mjolinor> one of theose links is a 0.3 the other seems to be 0.008
[14:02:21] <Mjolinor> which is damned pointy
[14:03:21] <raynerd> I wonder if it was too fine, it would chip easily/
[14:04:12] <Mjolinor> but you need it fine if you want an engraved V shape
[14:04:23] <raynerd> yes. true.
[14:04:30] <Mjolinor> with mine the bottom of the slot is 0.37mm with a 0.2 cutter
[14:04:30] <raynerd> Do you know what a drag engraver is?
[14:04:36] <Mjolinor> which is OK but shoudl be better I think
[14:04:42] <Mjolinor> no idea
[14:04:47] <Mjolinor> I suppose its one that doesnt rotate
[14:06:17] <raynerd> I must admit, tooling is something that is confusing me a little. I see a lot use V bits and then small endmills and then there are the deburr style. I see a lot of those but not clear why they are used
[14:06:36] <Mjolinor> so we are members of the same club in that then
[14:06:48] -!- Cylly [Cylly!cylly@p54B13E3A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[14:06:50] <Mjolinor> think you jsut sue what does the job you want, bugger what it is really for
[14:06:53] <Mjolinor> or called
[14:07:41] <Mjolinor> hmm, fail
[14:07:45] <Mjolinor> :eating:
[14:07:58] <Mjolinor> whops wrong window, I am relaly buggering thsi up
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[14:09:04] <raynerd> in that case, I see loads of these very pointed ones that we have purchased. what would there use be? I expect they will be prone to snapping!
[14:13:11] <jdhnc> you could send me some.
[14:14:25] <raynerd> lol
[14:14:45] <raynerd> jdhnc: you do any fine engraving?
[14:15:04] * jthornton finally got that loop to work properly
[14:15:07] <jdhnc> define 'fine'
[14:15:31] <jdhnc> I've only done engraving on plastics
[14:16:00] <raynerd> fine: keen or sharp, as a tool: Is the knife fine enough to carve well?
[14:16:24] <jdhnc> that's highly subjective.
[14:16:40] -!- phantoxe [phantoxe!~destroy@a95-92-89-24.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #linuxcnc
[14:28:37] <Tom_itx> Mjolinor, you could also grind a half round drill bit which looks nearly identical to that
[14:29:00] <Tom_itx> then you can get the angle and depth of cut you want
[14:31:14] <Tom_itx> typically they're used for deep hole drilling in brass etc
[14:31:28] <Tom_itx> http://www.travers.com/skulist.asp?r=s&n=||UserSearch1%3Dhalf-round+drill&q=block+id+41084+and+class+level3+id+30329
[14:31:39] <Tom_itx> you can probably find them cheaper
[14:34:24] -!- jthornton has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
[14:34:30] <pcw_> Why do I keep getting spam about blueberries?
[14:35:09] <Tom_itx> blueberry pi?
[14:35:22] -!- JT-Shop [JT-Shop!~chatzilla@] has joined #linuxcnc
[14:36:41] <pcw_> somehow its about the only spam that gets through the filter...
[14:43:57] Cylly is now known as Loetmichel
[14:44:35] <raynerd> What depth would you guys be cutting on a pcb?
[14:45:21] <syyl> so deep, i get the desired with of the insulation path...
[14:45:38] <syyl> (and to get trough the copper layer...)
[14:45:49] <Tom_itx> don't cut much of the FR4 because it's abrasive
[14:46:34] <Loetmichel> pcw: just through the 25µ/50µ copper, not more
[14:46:36] <Loetmichel> ideally
[14:48:28] <Mjolinor> I dont have anything that will grind these bits
[14:48:42] <Mjolinor> I thin kit needs diamond or maybe on an oil stone
[14:48:45] <Mjolinor> unfortunately
[14:49:10] <Loetmichel> oil stone is to wak
[14:49:14] <Loetmichel> diamond it is
[14:49:18] <Loetmichel> weak
[14:49:57] <Mjolinor> I can do ti with an idia stone but it would take the rest of my life to get rid of a chip :)
[14:50:01] <Mjolinor> india stone
[14:50:17] <syyl> get a degussit oil stone, thaths perfect for final honing of carbide
[14:50:25] <Mjolinor> i t would be nice to be able to grind it in the machine
[14:50:35] <Mjolinor> #I dont think these cheap chinese things are centred too well
[14:51:08] <Loetmichel> mju: not the brightest idea. the diamond/TC dust is abrasive as hell... and flies in EVERY corner of your machine
[14:51:24] <Loetmichel> Mjolinor
[14:51:26] <Mjolinor> I check my spindle runout and its only a couple of hundredths of a MM , I checked hte end of the cutter under the microscope adn it is 0.2 mm so to get a flat at the bottom of the cut atht is 0.37 side it can only be the cutter that is not ground accurately
[14:51:52] <Mjolinor> I am jsut adding a small sucker thign from an old vacum
[14:52:10] <Mjolinor> vacuum
[14:52:11] <Loetmichel> Mjolinor: more likely: the 0,2mm are measured without the "free" on the following sinde
[14:52:45] <Loetmichel> meaning: the cutter tip IS excentic
[14:52:49] <Loetmichel> +r
[14:52:56] <Mjolinor> yes
[14:52:58] <Mjolinor> that is what I mean
[14:53:00] <Loetmichel> has to be
[14:53:10] <Mjolinor> would be nice to shape it after it is in the chiuck and spinning
[14:53:21] <Loetmichel> not possibel
[14:53:24] <Loetmichel> wouldnt cut
[14:53:45] <raynerd> just tryed to etch some clear plastic for a keyring but rather than getting a nice frosted etched line, the lines look a little melted!
[14:53:46] <syyl> you have no way to relief the cutter
[14:53:53] <Mjolinor> would do PCBs if I shape the tapered bit and leave the bottom alone I think
[14:54:13] <Loetmichel> ah, relief was the word i was searchig for
[14:54:33] <Mjolinor> it is chisel ended, the 0.2 mm is made by grinding front and back like a normal chisel
[14:55:15] <Mjolinor> if I leave that but narrow the end from the sides with a diamond in a dremmel sort fo thing then it will still cut as it shuodl provided I don't want deep but only narrow adn accurate
[14:55:20] <Loetmichel> that souunds like a spear drill, not a engraving bit
[14:55:38] <Mjolinor> probably
[14:55:48] <Mjolinor> allsorts of names for these thigns that I dont know :)
[14:56:04] <raynerd> what exactly is an "engraving bit" then?
[14:56:05] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=8958
[14:56:07] <Loetmichel> that
[14:56:18] <Mjolinor> yes
[14:56:23] <Mjolinor> that si the sort of thing I am using
[14:56:27] <syyl> it will throw up a hell of a burr, Mjolinor ;)
[14:56:34] <Mjolinor> cheap ones off ebay, they only cost about £1 each
[14:56:55] <Mjolinor> I am not spending 10 euros on cutters to break at random while I explore what this thing is cpable of :)
[14:57:16] <syyl> get some descent singlelip engraving cutters from a "normal" supplier and get excitet how good things can work :D
[14:57:30] <Mjolinor> I will do that
[14:57:41] <Mjolinor> once I know about my spindle speeds / loads / feeds etc
[14:58:01] <Mjolinor> this little toy plane motor seems to stand up pretty well so far
[14:58:23] <syyl> pcb milling doesnt take very much torque ;)
[14:58:25] * Mjolinor apologises to any radio control nuts in the room
[14:58:30] <Loetmichel> Mjolinor: btw: the ones in the photo aer ground frpom old broken TC bits
[14:58:41] <Loetmichel> ... by hand witrh a dremel and a dioamond disc
[14:58:47] <Mjolinor> :)
[14:58:57] <Mjolinor> so I need to buy soem diamond disks for my dremmel then
[14:58:59] <raynerd> nice
[14:58:59] <syyl> with 100watts you can even machine steel with cutters below 2mm...
[14:59:15] <Mjolinor> well it shoudl be 160 watts
[14:59:18] <Loetmichel> ... had to practice some, bit after about 20 tor the trash the first one had cut:-)
[14:59:18] <raynerd> I always thought you needed a cutter grinder to make them accurate enough on centre
[14:59:24] <Mjolinor> but I havent had it really grinting yet :)
[14:59:28] <Mjolinor> grunting
[14:59:53] <syyl> 1mm cutter, 1mm deep, 6000rpm and 60mm/min feed in steel will take about 80Watts
[14:59:54] <syyl> :D
[15:00:06] <Loetmichel> raynerd: you can substitute the grindig rig with experiendce... ;-)
[15:00:27] <Mjolinor> see that is the sort of information you cant find on the net
[15:00:28] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=8961
[15:00:37] <Loetmichel> made them like this ;-)
[15:01:05] <raynerd> how do you ensure that the point is perfectly central?
[15:01:07] <Mjolinor> I woudl have thought 6000 rmp is too clow to get a good finish at that feed, if I go over 45 the sides of the V get a bit icky
[15:01:47] <syyl> that parameters where for a 2 flute cutter
[15:01:52] <syyl> and just a example ;)
[15:02:10] <Loetmichel> i still think 6000 is a little low for 1mm
[15:02:18] <syyl> no way
[15:02:24] <Loetmichel> i would go more like 12
[15:02:25] <syyl> experience :)
[15:02:35] <Loetmichel> yes, it can differ ;-)
[15:02:56] <syyl> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/24396704/qtl2_4.jpg
[15:03:07] <syyl> i use cutters down to 0,5mm on that monster
[15:03:17] <syyl> and it only goes up to 6300rpm
[15:03:37] <Mjolinor> kind of hard to do 12k then :)
[15:03:52] <Loetmichel> lokks like it
[15:03:53] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[15:03:57] <Mjolinor> never seen a mechanical frequency doubler
[15:04:07] <syyl> i have..
[15:04:08] <Loetmichel> oh, you CAN buy them
[15:04:09] <Mjolinor> well apart fmr a gearbox
[15:04:15] <Loetmichel> but not cheap
[15:04:28] <syyl> and for the cheap ones
[15:04:43] <Loetmichel> planetary gear iwith SK40 on one side and a ER20 chuck on the other ;-)
[15:04:56] <Mjolinor> but you still need a lock for the outside
[15:05:00] <syyl> yes
[15:05:02] <Loetmichel> yes
[15:05:10] <syyl> those are sold on a regular base
[15:05:15] <syyl> not for heavy machining
[15:05:18] <syyl> but they work
[15:05:33] <Mjolinor> more like a casr gearbox than a bit of workshop tooling
[15:05:35] <Mjolinor> car
[15:05:38] <Loetmichel> but that is designed in a way that the hispeed gear still can bie changend auutomatically, like any other tool
[15:06:28] <Loetmichel> locks somewhre on the spindle in a hole os so
[15:06:30] <Loetmichel> or so
[15:07:05] <Mjolinor> http://eahart.com/prius/psd/
[15:07:18] <Mjolinor> thats a good link for understanding planet gears
[15:07:24] <Mjolinor> and prius gearboxes :)
[15:07:43] -!- raynerd has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
[15:08:51] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/temp/cnc/pendant8.jpg
[15:08:59] <Tom_itx> i did that with a standard center drill
[15:09:09] <Tom_itx> because that's what i had handy
[15:10:48] <syyl> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/24396704/bonelle_24.jpg
[15:11:03] <syyl> that with a normal 90deg singlelip engraving cutter
[15:11:04] <syyl> :D
[15:11:10] <syyl> nice pendant, tom!
[15:11:18] <Tom_itx> that looks real nice syyl
[15:11:22] <syyl> has all you need
[15:11:25] <Tom_itx> you always do nice work
[15:11:31] <syyl> thank you, sir
[15:11:33] <syyl> :=)
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[15:12:25] <Loetmichel> Mjolinor: i make planetary gearts myself
[15:12:34] <Loetmichel> i know more or less how they work ;-.)
[15:12:35] <Mjolinor> for waht?
[15:12:45] <Mjolinor> I mend them a lot in auto gearboxes
[15:12:51] <Mjolinor> or I used to, don't do amny now
[15:12:53] <Loetmichel> cnc drive
[15:13:01] <Tom_itx> syyl what sort of coating did you use for the lettering? just paint?
[15:13:06] <syyl> jep
[15:13:08] <Mjolinor> and I seriously hope I never have to mend the one in my Prius :)
[15:13:13] <syyl> black spray paint
[15:13:14] <Tom_itx> then brushed it smooth
[15:13:17] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=11714
[15:13:21] <syyl> right :)
[15:13:32] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=11705
[15:13:35] <Tom_itx> i use to work at a place where another guy had a small engraving shop
[15:13:49] <syyl> at work we use wax crayon
[15:13:52] <syyl> and a hot air gun
[15:14:01] <Tom_itx> he had a bridgeport (i forget the name of the machine) engraver
[15:14:05] <Loetmichel> syyl:like me ;-)
[15:14:07] <Tom_itx> would do rotary stuff etc
[15:14:21] <Mjolinor> what is that for, the gearbox?
[15:14:26] <Tom_itx> he did engraving for roll stamps etc like for the old oil can lids etc
[15:14:29] <Tom_itx> or plaques
[15:14:37] <syyl> rotrary engraving is always interesting
[15:14:41] <Mjolinor> is ti on the end of a stepper motor?
[15:14:48] <Tom_itx> it was an interesting machine
[15:15:14] <Jymmm> syyl: Tom_itx Black enamel oil based paint. rub in with a cloth into the engravings, wipe off the excess on the surface and let dry.
[15:15:28] <Loetmichel> Mjolinor: yes
[15:15:37] <syyl> sounds to be worth a try
[15:15:47] <Tom_itx> Jymmm, jup.. that's how he did it
[15:16:07] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Sorta
[15:16:24] <Loetmichel> Mjolinor: its beween the stepper and the ball thread
[15:16:24] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: no sanding required withwhat I said.
[15:16:35] <Tom_itx> he made nice plaques etc as well as engraved stamps
[15:16:46] <Tom_itx> i know
[15:16:52] <Tom_itx> but i saw the brushed finish on syyl's
[15:16:53] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=11639 ... on the right
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[15:17:07] <Mjolinor> with a fixed ring gear?
[15:17:23] <Loetmichel> correct
[15:17:25] <Mjolinor> so you are jsut gearing it down so more staeps for same rotate?
[15:17:28] <Jymmm> syyl: Only works on non porous materials of course.
[15:17:29] <Loetmichel> glued in the mount
[15:17:37] <Loetmichel> yes
[15:17:55] <syyl> thats self evident ;)
[15:17:58] <Loetmichel> because the thead hast 10mm/rev
[15:18:00] <Jymmm> syyl: you could clear coat first, engrave, then rub in too.
[15:18:02] <Loetmichel> thread
[15:18:23] <syyl> the enamel based oil paint..
[15:18:35] <syyl> is that the normal oil paint you get in art stores?
[15:18:51] <Jymmm> syyl: In porous materials that is.
[15:18:53] <Tom_itx> any oil based paint probably
[15:18:56] <Mjolinor> so you are not really usign it as a mutli speed gearbox at all, jsut a fixed reduction gearbox
[15:19:03] <Jymmm> syyl: OH HELL NO, that's way too expensive. hang on.
[15:19:44] <Tom_itx> enamel would probably do just as well
[15:20:07] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: no, this is OIL BASED enamel.
[15:20:16] <Tom_itx> marine paint
[15:20:24] <Mjolinor> I am having problems setting up my new siemeens VFD
[15:20:28] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: if you can afford it.
[15:20:33] <Tom_itx> what do they used for raised lettering on business cards?
[15:20:41] <syyl> Mjolinor, a micromaster?
[15:20:51] <Mjolinor> my lathe doesnt start until it gets to about 40 Hz then it races offbut it will run down to 4 Hz or so before it stalls
[15:20:55] <Mjolinor> yes
[15:21:07] <Mjolinor> there are about 10^4 variables in the goddam thign that you can set
[15:21:14] <syyl> right :D
[15:21:17] <Jymmm> syyl: This comes in little half pint cans for like $5, black and white are the only colors... http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&productId=202041177&R=202041177
[15:21:33] <Mjolinor> the old inverter woudl start at under 10 Hz but it made the motor run hot and sound crap
[15:21:44] <syyl> ah ok, that type of paint i can get here too
[15:21:52] <Mjolinor> its really smooth with the micropmaster but there are so many variables you shoudl be able to do a degree in the goddam things
[15:21:55] <syyl> thanks Jymmm, will try that out sooner or later
[15:22:01] <syyl> Mjolinor
[15:22:07] <syyl> reset it to factory settings
[15:22:15] <Mjolinor> I did, several times :)
[15:22:16] <syyl> then only set the nessescary things
[15:22:25] <Mjolinor> that is the way I have done it
[15:22:26] <Jymmm> syyl: Yeah, just use old cut up t-shirts to apply.
[15:22:45] <Mjolinor> but I htink there msut be soemthign for helping the motor to start soemwhere, jsut havent found ti yet
[15:22:54] <syyl> you will ned the motor base dates, your inputs, ramps
[15:23:10] <syyl> what does happen?
[15:23:14] <Mjolinor> I think the default ramps seem very slow to me
[15:23:19] <Mjolinor> but maybe its my lathe
[15:23:35] <Mjolinor> it doesnt seem to do anyting , I increase hte speed manually in emc
[15:23:38] <Mjolinor> linuxcnc
[15:23:52] <syyl> if you set the start-ramp to steep it will fail
[15:23:52] <Mjolinor> and it doesnt start till I get to about 40Hz on the VFD display
[15:24:02] <syyl> vfd will stop with an error
[15:24:06] <syyl> strange
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[15:24:22] <Mjolinor> so maybe Iwill increase hte ramp till it fails then back it off
[15:24:34] <Loetmichel> syyl: on metal parts i have got good results with "puldervbeschichtung" powder, brushed into the engraving ang then heated to 200°c
[15:24:38] <Mjolinor> I havent loked at the ramps at all but for sure when I hit sotp it takes an age to slow down
[15:25:02] <Mjolinor> so repsumably the start ramp is similar to the stop ramp as default and maybe I am not waiting long enough
[15:25:14] <syyl> the default ramps of the micromaster are very slow
[15:25:19] <Mjolinor> makes me feel scared to be pumping electricity at it and it not going round
[15:25:42] <syyl> the motor should run even at 5Hz
[15:25:55] <syyl> there must be another problem...
[15:26:05] <Mjolinor> was going to read soem more today but I have about 10 documents with 200 pages each, its a lot of reading
[15:26:13] <Mjolinor> it does run at 5Hz fine
[15:26:22] <Mjolinor> provided I come down to 5
[15:26:39] <Mjolinor> get it running at 40 and slwo it down it stalls at about 3Hz
[15:26:46] <syyl> strange
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[15:27:06] <syyl> it should start right above 0Hz
[15:27:09] <Mjolinor> think the lathe is tight, it hasn't run for 15 years prior to me getting it
[15:27:28] <syyl> never had that problem, and i set up a few siemens VFDs
[15:28:19] <Mjolinor> I had it running last night at about 600 Hz, I connected the grease gun to the headstock and started pumping, none went in initially then the grase gun collapsed and injected a laod of greese, the lathe slowed right down to about 200 rpm and stayed ther about 5 minutes till the grease moved about I suppose
[15:28:31] <Mjolinor> 600 RPM, not HZ
[15:28:55] <syyl> while i read 600Hz i shrugged for a moment ;)
[15:29:01] <Mjolinor> :)
[15:29:04] <syyl> hmm
[15:29:14] <syyl> spindle with ball/roller bearings?
[15:29:20] <syyl> or plain bearings?
[15:29:22] <Mjolinor> no idea
[15:29:28] <Mjolinor> denford Orac
[15:29:33] <Mjolinor> don't knwo what it has in there
[15:29:51] <Mjolinor> perhaps after 15 years ina wood shed I shoudl explore a bit more deeply before I try to get it working :)
[15:30:01] <syyl> most plain bearings want oil, no grease
[15:30:18] <syyl> and with ball/roller bearings to much grease would also not help :\
[15:30:32] <Mjolinor> well it had grease in before, you can see where it coems out at the back of the spindle, I kept sticking it in there until it came out new
[15:31:42] <Mjolinor> the thing is that the old inverter, the one denford supplied, woudl start it very slowly
[15:31:47] <Mjolinor> the siemens one will not
[15:32:21] <syyl> there should be a parameter
[15:32:31] <syyl> to rise the current in the beginning
[15:32:35] <Mjolinor> spec sheet does not say if it is plain berings or roller
[15:32:45] <syyl> maybe that helps
[15:32:48] <Mjolinor> I personally think plain because of the way it feels if you turn it by hand
[15:34:18] <Mjolinor> http://www.denfordata.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=420
[15:34:26] <Mjolinor> that suggest taper roller bearings to me
[15:34:35] <Mjolinor> cant think of any other type you can tighten up
[15:35:16] <syyl> that drawing is the headstock of your lathe?
[15:35:20] <Mjolinor> yup, it has taper roller bearings
[15:35:26] <Mjolinor> seems so :)
[15:35:27] <syyl> it says 3207 bearings ;)
[15:35:47] <syyl> angular contact bearings
[15:36:21] <Mjolinor> so for sure it shoudl be smnoother than it is when I turn it by hand
[15:36:29] <Mjolinor> I can feel a dismemberment coming on
[15:36:57] <syyl> :)
[15:39:47] <ssi> ok today I must get 100% of my GPIO working!
[15:39:54] <ssi> and maybe the servo amps :D
[15:40:07] <ssi> aaaand the VFD drive wiring
[15:40:50] <syyl> and i must finish the paintjob on my lathe-bed
[15:40:53] <syyl> or pain-job...
[15:40:56] <ssi> yes
[15:41:05] <ssi> you need to come scrape mine in when you're done
[15:41:19] <syyl> sure
[15:41:22] <syyl> 70eur/hour
[15:41:23] <syyl> ;)
[15:41:27] <JT-Shop> can't get it done yacking on here :P
[15:41:45] <ssi> JT-Shop: actually I might need to, cause I need help with some of it :P
[15:42:11] <JT-Shop> I know, I'm just ribbing you a bit
[15:42:20] <ssi> I made good progress though
[15:42:24] <ssi> over half of the limits work
[15:42:45] <ssi> all the wiring is in place, but it doesn't all work yet
[15:42:49] <ssi> https://p.twimg.com/Aoulml0CMAANQHM.jpg
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[15:43:07] <ssi> https://p.twimg.com/AouS1wjCMAAebq-.jpg:large
[15:43:27] <ssi> wire ferrules made all the difference in the world wiring those screwless blocks
[15:45:00] <JT-Shop> I use ferrules on just about everythiing
[15:45:24] <ssi> yeah I think I'll start using them a lot now
[15:45:30] <ssi> since I had to invest in the crimp tool
[15:45:40] <ssi> I'm very very happy with the crimp tool I got though too
[15:45:47] <JT-Shop> looking nice
[15:46:06] <JT-Shop> you get the one that is end crimp or side crimp?
[15:46:15] <JT-Shop> I like the side crimp one better
[15:46:23] <ssi> side crimp
[15:46:29] <ssi> it's the DCT frame from automationdirect
[15:46:54] <ssi> and got a die for regular red/blue terminals as well
[15:47:05] <JT-Shop> I got mine so long ago I can't remember where I got it
[15:47:19] <JT-Shop> mine just does ferrules
[15:47:21] <ssi> I have AMP 59250 crimpers at the hangar, and they're phenomenal, but they only really work well on honest to god AMP PIDG type terminals
[15:47:29] <ssi> and those are way too expensive to use anywhere but the airplane
[15:50:46] <ssi> so I have a laundry list of things to address
[15:51:18] <ssi> one of my hall effects is putting out 12v when not tripped
[15:51:41] <ssi> only one, not sure why... the rest seem to be high impedance when not tripped, and sink to ground when tripped
[15:52:05] <ssi> so I'm seeing 12V at the GPIO. The 7i42 is keeping it clamped to 5v, but that's not really ideal :P
[15:52:31] <JT-Shop> I finally got my taper OD sub for ngcgui working the way I wanted :)
[15:52:37] <ssi> GOOD
[15:52:45] <ssi> now do taper ID :D
[15:53:24] <ssi> second issue... the SSRs all had a common control + terminal
[15:53:37] <ssi> originally at 12v, and they're enabled by pulling the - terminal to ground
[15:54:04] <ssi> I'm controlling them with 5V instead... they switch fine at 5V, and flow about 5mA when on
[15:54:28] <ssi> problem i was having is it seemed like when I'd switch one on, it'd pull the whole 5v bus down to 0
[15:54:41] <ssi> I can't imagine that the 5v I was feeding them would be that high Zout
[15:54:52] <ssi> I thought I was taking that 5v directly from the computer PSU's 5v line
[15:54:55] <ssi> but I'll have to double check that
[15:58:33] <JT-Shop> mine had a blown part on the turret board that was drawing the 24v buss down to a couple of volts
[15:58:51] <JT-Shop> that one messed up my mind for a while
[15:58:57] <ssi> so far I have zero 24v in the system
[15:59:23] <ssi> oh which brings me to issue 3
[15:59:34] <ssi> the two turret control solenoids are 12V and draw about 60mA each
[15:59:39] <ssi> so I can't control those directly
[16:00:52] <ssi> I have the original electromechanical relays from the control, but they're all 24vdc control :/
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[16:21:12] <joe9> after you install linuxcnc, do you customize your paths? http://codepad.org/WyYEN6zx error, when I do scripts/rip-environment.
[16:24:29] <joe9> http://codepad.org/whwbK9tt this is what the install file says
[16:26:02] <joe9> should the scripts/rip-environment be customized before use?
[16:26:46] <JT-Shop> no but you run it like it says . ./scripts/rip-envirnment
[16:26:51] <JT-Shop> note the period space period slash
[16:27:12] <joe9> JT-Shop: but, it says that EMC2_HOME=/usr/local; export EMC2_HOME
[16:27:21] <JT-Shop> or are you in some strange version of linux?
[16:27:35] <joe9> i was using zsh, let me try bash.
[16:27:54] <JT-Shop> this ain't a standard install is it?
[16:28:14] <joe9> i followed the instructions in installing linuxcnc.
[16:28:29] <joe9> "./configure, make, sudo setsuid.."
[16:28:35] <JT-Shop> on Ubuntu?
[16:28:47] <alex4nder> hey
[16:28:55] <JT-Shop> hay
[16:28:55] <joe9> no, not on ubuntu.
[16:29:02] <JT-Shop> ok, I know nothing then
[16:29:10] * JT-Shop shuts up now
[16:30:32] <alex4nder> sup
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[16:31:35] <JT-Shop> I have a dozen 6" scales and can only find one :/
[16:34:56] <joe9> i should have been using emc-environment and not rip-environment.
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[16:45:23] <JT-Shop> your using 2.4?
[16:45:39] <joe9> EMC2 - 2.3.4
[16:45:47] -!- jackc [jackc!~jackc@imeaniguess.crepinc.com] has joined #linuxcnc
[16:45:49] <joe9> let me get to 2.4
[16:49:41] <joe9> JT-Shop: what version are you on?
[16:54:42] <JT-Shop> most if not all my machines are running 2.5 from buildbot
[16:55:12] <joe9> you mean from the git repo?
[16:55:19] <joe9> is buildbot == git repo?
[16:55:36] <JT-Shop> no, buildbot deb
[16:55:41] <joe9> oh, ok. thanks.
[16:55:55] <JT-Shop> http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/
[16:58:40] <joe9> jt-shop, what is your kernel version?
[16:59:15] <JT-Shop> what's that?
[16:59:19] <joe9> uname -a
[16:59:45] <JT-Shop> I have 5 machines running LinuxCNC just pick one?
[17:00:16] <joe9> the one with the least problems? I am on
[17:00:25] <joe9> just wanted to check if you are on a different version.
[17:00:40] <JT-Shop> the closest one is 2.6.320-122-rtai
[17:00:47] <joe9> ok, cool. thanks.
[17:00:54] <JT-Shop> 32 not 320
[17:01:13] <joe9> that is what i thought. thanks.
[17:01:18] <JT-Shop> np
[17:03:25] <joe9> http://codepad.org/ZK8XYO2e do you see these warnings while "make"?
[17:03:36] <joe9> i am checking your logs to see if you do.
[17:03:54] <JT-Shop> I don't have to make, I'm using a deb
[17:03:56] <joe9> but, having not checked a buildbot before, I am searching around.
[17:04:07] <joe9> oh, just apt-get install then.
[17:04:10] <ssi> arg wtf
[17:04:14] <JT-Shop> yea
[17:04:37] <ssi> JT-Shop: so I have these ssr driving pins set up as output, open drain, invert
[17:04:50] <ssi> JT-Shop: the first one works fine to drive the enable relay
[17:04:58] <ssi> JT-Shop: the rest of them trip the relay regardless of the state of the pin
[17:06:07] <pcw_> Measure across the SSR input pins to see whats happening
[17:06:09] <JT-Shop> your using a 7isomething not a 5i20?
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[17:06:27] <JT-Shop> Yippie Help is here
[17:06:32] <ssi> 5i23 + 7i42
[17:07:00] <ssi> pcw_: control terminal of the SSR has 5V on the + side, all of them bussed together
[17:07:13] <ssi> pcw_: - side of each is connected to an open drain pin
[17:07:21] <ssi> if I disconnect from the pin, I get 5V across the terminals
[17:07:28] <ssi> if I Connect to the pin, I get 0V regardless of state of the pin
[17:08:18] <ssi> er sorry
[17:08:31] <ssi> not 5v across the terminals, but rather 5v at the + side and close to 5v at the - side
[17:09:20] <pcw_> is 5i23 jumpered for 5V pullups and 5V bus switch mode on the 7I42 conns?
[17:09:53] <ssi> I need to double check
[17:09:58] <ssi> that may be the answer though
[17:10:25] <ssi> with the GPIO pin off (pulled up) it's at 3v3, and the ssr has 5v-3v3 across it, and I guess that's enough to trip it
[17:10:31] <ssi> it's juts off that the #1 relay doesn't behave that way
[17:10:37] <pcw_> it will only swing to 3.3V if not jumpered right
[17:10:38] <ssi> it actually turns off when the gpio is in a high state
[17:11:00] <pcw_> well 1.7 is marginal (some will work and some not)
[17:11:24] <ssi> can I switch those jumpers hot?
[17:11:33] <pcw_> i would not
[17:11:36] <ssi> j
[17:11:37] <ssi> k
[17:11:39] <ssi> I'll brb then
[17:11:57] * JT-Shop is hearing a nap call my name...
[17:14:03] <joe9> anyone willing to commit this patch to the git repo: http://codepad.org/VIwoXJRX
[17:14:48] <ssi> k got those changed... let's check it out
[17:14:59] <joe9> anyone with linuxcnc git repo access in here?
[17:15:37] <skunkKandT> joe9: You might want to ask on #linuxcnc-devel or the devel mailing list.
[17:15:40] <ssi> pcw_: yep, that did it!
[17:15:43] <ssi> once again, pcw saves the day
[17:15:48] <joe9> skunkKandT: ok, will do. thanks.
[17:16:18] <Loetmichel> re @ home
[17:16:45] <joe9> yay, i have linuxcnc working now.
[17:17:30] <pcw_> I need to add a paragraph to the manual about driving 5V referred OPTOS
[17:19:21] <pcw_> so for 5V referred load you want 5V bus switch mode and 5V pullups
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[17:24:12] <ssi> makes sense
[17:24:27] <ssi> pcw_: so the other thing I need to do is drive two solenoids that want 60mA at 12v
[17:24:37] <ssi> pcw_: is there any way in hell I can drive one of those with a 120VAC ssr?
[17:24:42] <ssi> I'm thinking probably not, because they're triacs
[17:25:07] <ssi> or scrs or some such sorcery
[17:28:07] <frysteev_> ola
[17:31:24] <mrsun> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzpujoPgOLo&feature=g-vrec&context=G2a6db8fRVAAAAAAAAAQ haha cool =)
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[17:32:12] <mrsun> tho my guess is that it wont hold up for very long as its not hardened ways on the screw =)
[17:35:50] <A2Sheds> pcw_ : do you have a DC motor controller for something up to 12HP?
[17:35:53] <pcw_> You can drive the solenoids on once with AC SSRs (but you would have to cycle the power to turn them off)
[17:36:18] <pcw_> Nothing that big
[17:36:41] <pcw_> 12 HP at what voltage?
[17:36:51] <A2Sheds> just checking, reworking a plastic extrusion system
[17:37:15] <pcw_> anything left of the original drive?
[17:37:17] <A2Sheds> I pick it up i the next couple days, probably 500VDC
[17:37:35] <A2Sheds> yeah, just old SCR drive
[17:37:57] <pcw_> well thats probably fine if its OK
[17:38:08] <A2Sheds> too old
[17:38:14] <A2Sheds> the cap dry up
[17:38:22] <pcw_> replace the CAPS
[17:38:24] <A2Sheds> cpas, solder connections etc
[17:38:33] <A2Sheds> I can't spell today :)
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[17:39:20] <A2Sheds> http://www.scrcontrols.com/products.asp?productName=MELLTRUM&page=specs
[17:39:31] <frysteev_> im working on getting my machine power today
[17:39:36] <A2Sheds> probably a model 1 or 2
[17:41:32] <pcw_> Most likely the cheapest replacement drive would be a SCR drive as well
[17:41:52] <A2Sheds> I'll see what I find new
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[17:43:29] <pcw_> Are you sure its bad? older industrial stuff is often better than new if fixed
[17:43:31] <pcw_> (hermetic power components etc)
[17:43:34] <A2Sheds> http://imagebin.org/204979 not quite a 60 scifi film, but close
[17:44:00] <A2Sheds> the front panel has analog meters
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[17:44:19] <pcw_> But does it work?
[17:44:25] <A2Sheds> too oxidized to be reliable
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[17:44:45] <A2Sheds> you should know that by now :)
[17:44:57] <frysteev_> A2Sheds: what is that?
[17:45:26] <A2Sheds> control cabinet for a 12hp DC motor and plastic extruder
[17:45:41] <A2Sheds> heater relays
[17:45:48] <pcw_> no, I know that most things are fixable if you understand whats wrong
[17:46:16] <A2Sheds> 15 year old board, I'd have to wave solder it again
[17:46:48] <A2Sheds> anyway, was just wondering if you had a larger driver
[17:48:35] <Loetmichel> HAAACH, great to sit in a warm bathtub after a dys work with angle grinder and stick welder... :-)
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[17:48:40] <Loetmichel> days
[17:48:59] <A2Sheds> has the feeling come back to your fingers?
[17:49:07] <Loetmichel> *drip in the Notebookkeyboard....
[17:49:17] <Loetmichel> feeling?
[17:49:21] <Loetmichel> never lost
[17:49:30] <Loetmichel> the angle grinder is new
[17:49:39] <Loetmichel> not really vibrating much
[17:50:35] <A2Sheds> http://imagebin.org/204980
[17:51:06] <frysteev_> oo love the analog meters
[17:51:29] <joe9> my first run of linuxcnc gave me this message: http://codepad.org/J8WNGrT8 and the second run: http://codepad.org/71DlCrDo . can I assume that everthing is ok, now?
[17:52:00] * djdelorie is still anxious to get my cnc running *at all* :-P
[17:52:09] <A2Sheds> it screams reliability :p
[17:52:17] <djdelorie> stupid life! Stop interrupting me!
[17:52:36] <pcw_> A2Sheds you must be used to consumer stuff, 15 years is nothing for industrial electronics unless it in a corrosive atmosphere +- some dry electrolytics
[17:53:02] <A2Sheds> uncoated wave soldered through hole board
[17:53:29] <A2Sheds> I would fly that thing
[17:53:34] <A2Sheds> wouldn't
[17:54:10] <A2Sheds> probably more like25 years
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[18:07:18] <ssi> how does one go about testing a prox switch?
[18:07:55] -!- isssy has quit [Client Quit]
[18:08:10] <JT-Shop> I use a quarter
[18:08:41] <ssi> I've tried everything from a wrench up to a 2x2x6" block of steel
[18:08:46] <ssi> can't get the output to change
[18:09:35] <JT-Shop> usually a quarter is fine
[18:09:44] <ssi> so that brings me back to
[18:09:50] <JT-Shop> might be borked or wired wrong
[18:09:51] <ssi> how can I Test it to figure out if the swtich is bad
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[18:10:34] <JT-Shop> I've seen proxes that the built in led worked as expected but the actual switch did not
[18:10:53] <ssi> I don't think these have a built in LED?
[18:11:00] <ssi> I can take some pctures of them if you want
[18:11:22] <JT-Shop> I imagine they look like mine more or less
[18:11:36] <joe9> JT-Shop: any comments on this, please?
[18:11:38] <JT-Shop> 2 wire or 3 wire?
[18:11:53] <joe9> my first run of linuxcnc gave me this message: http://codepad.org/J8WNGrT8 and the second run: http://codepad.org/71DlCrDo . can I assume that everthing is ok, now?
[18:12:03] <joe9> jt-shop: ^^ this, please?
[18:12:11] <ssi> 3 wire
[18:12:12] <joe9> just to ensure that it is fine.
[18:12:20] <ssi> they look like fat bolts that are ground off on the end
[18:12:24] <ssi> with wires coming out the other end
[18:12:30] <ssi> they're threaded
[18:12:44] <ssi> they've got 12v on one side, ground on the other, and a signal on the third
[18:12:48] <JT-Shop> joe9: you did something to fix your real time delays between the two runs?
[18:12:55] <joe9> nope, nothing.
[18:13:07] <JT-Shop> ssi: a typical 3 wire prox
[18:13:26] <JT-Shop> joe9: then I assume you still have the problem reported in first run
[18:13:27] <ssi> that's what I'd expect
[18:13:39] <ssi> plus, the fine home limits are also proxes, of the same part num according to the drawing
[18:13:42] <ssi> and they work
[18:13:56] <JT-Shop> 12v 0v and signal might be either 12v or 0v depending on the prox
[18:15:18] <jdhnc> were they already wired?
[18:17:15] <ssi> jdhnc: yeah
[18:17:37] <JT-Shop> ssi: to answer your question I don't know if you can meter them or not
[18:18:28] <JT-Shop> does your machine use those tiny little press in terminal blocks at the slides?
[18:18:46] <JT-Shop> check for a broken wire if they are like mine they break easy
[18:19:45] <ssi> they're amp blocks
[18:19:51] <ssi> 1-582305-9
[18:19:59] <ssi> white things, I can't figure out how to release the wires
[18:20:04] <ssi> but they all look pretty solid
[18:21:39] <JT-Shop> mine are some kind of taper fit pin that you have to grab the fitting with pliers and twist to pull out
[18:22:19] <joe9> JT-Shop: now that I have my linuxcnc built, is there anything that I can do to ensure that everything is fine?
[18:22:20] <jdhnc> and if you are lucky, the fitting sockets don't rip out.
[18:22:54] <ssi> yeah I think these are the same
[18:23:31] <ssi> search for the part number comes up with
[18:23:32] <ssi> Taper Pins and Blocks
[18:23:40] <ssi> anyway, I tihnk the drawing might be wrong
[18:23:43] <JT-Shop> joe9: run the lantency test for an extended period if time
[18:23:47] <ssi> because it has me running power to one of the signal lines
[18:23:49] <joe9> ok, thanks. will do.
[18:24:41] <jdhnc> latency on my last test box hung around 30000 for hours until I copied about 5gb between PATA disk. Jumped to 900000 then
[18:25:21] <ssi> yeah I see what the damned problem is
[18:25:25] <ssi> drawing's screwed up
[18:26:22] -!- IchGuckLive [IchGuckLive!~chatzilla@95-89-241-192-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #linuxcnc
[18:26:33] <IchGuckLive> Hi all
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[18:27:10] <pcw_> jdhnc that may indicate a drive problem
[18:29:26] <pcw_> I've seen latency jump to large number with disk errors
[18:30:21] <IchGuckLive> is the latacy champ pulsing every 10-25 seconds ?
[18:34:26] <ssi> of course it had to be the one wire that was too short to change
[18:34:43] <joe9> "dd if=/dev/zero bs=100M | gzip | gzip -d | gzip | gzip -d | gzip | gzip -d >| /dev/null" is this a good program to run when running the latency-test?
[18:34:56] <joe9> the menu talks about glxgears
[18:35:19] <joe9> which i started too.
[18:35:42] <joe9> and the max jitter with the above dd command and glxgears is around 12157.
[18:35:51] <joe9> for the base thread
[18:36:01] <joe9> and 10,657 for the servo thread.
[18:38:51] <alex4nder> yoh
[18:39:05] <joe9> alex4nder: yo, what's up?
[18:39:18] <alex4nder> joe9: not a lot, going to work on my mill today
[18:39:26] <alex4nder> well, the enclosure at least
[18:39:30] <joe9> is the above latency good enough. now, it is around 12500 for the base thread.
[18:39:36] <joe9> max jitter.
[18:39:50] <joe9> are those similar to your readings?
[18:39:55] <alex4nder> that's better than mine
[18:40:09] <joe9> wow, cool. let me run them for some time.
[18:40:54] <archivist> joe9, open an image in the image viewer and zoom it using the mouse scroll wheel
[18:41:10] <joe9> archivist: i am running glxgears and the massive dd.
[18:41:21] <joe9> along with that latency test.
[18:41:44] <joe9> alex4nder: now, I will open up the boxes and assemble the machine. Is there anything I should do regarding the software stuff.?
[18:42:10] <alex4nder> it depends on how you're driving your steppers.. what did you end up buying?
[18:42:32] <joe9> the kelinginc motors that you use.
[18:42:39] <alex4nder> I don't use keling motors. :D
[18:42:47] <joe9> but, i am not sure if I bought the bigger one's though.
[18:42:57] <archivist> joe9, it is just another test, if it can handle it all well and good
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[18:43:09] <alex4nder> joe9: what stepper motor driver did you buy?
[18:43:17] <joe9> gecko 540, I think.
[18:43:20] <JT-Shop> make sure you run the latency test for a couple of hours or moe
[18:43:28] <JT-Shop> more
[18:43:28] <joe9> the one with 4 ports.
[18:43:33] <joe9> JT-Shop: ok, will do.
[18:43:35] <alex4nder> the g540 is easy to configure
[18:43:41] <joe9> yes, the g540
[18:43:41] <alex4nder> just use the configuration wizard
[18:43:46] <joe9> ok, will do.
[18:43:52] <alex4nder> I would recommend you only do one axis at a time.
[18:44:06] <joe9> i am excited. from this point, to getting the machine up and running, will it take a day?
[18:44:25] <alex4nder> uh, honestly?
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[18:44:44] <alex4nder> you seem like you like going the 'long way around'. ;)
[18:44:44] <joe9> alex4nder: ok, thanks. connect one motor, test, disconnect, connect the next one to g540?
[18:44:49] <joe9> and so on?
[18:45:00] <ssi> rgh
[18:45:14] <ssi> even with the rewiring I can't make these damn proxes do anything
[18:45:18] <joe9> alex4nder: just for the software stuff. I am a software guy, so, that kinda rubs off.
[18:45:25] <alex4nder> joe9: I'm a software guy. ;)
[18:45:49] <joe9> like to have my linux configured, if you know what I mean.
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[18:46:03] <alex4nder> what I did was I picked one axis, and picked where my eelctronics were going to live
[18:46:32] <alex4nder> then I mounted up the hardware to mount the stepper, on the mill
[18:46:56] <alex4nder> then I prepped the stepper, cut the coupler plastic, and mounted it all up
[18:46:58] <alex4nder> adjusted it
[18:47:37] <alex4nder> I did this after I was sure I was wiring them right, by using jumpers on the bench.
[18:48:15] <joe9> ok, thanks a lot.
[18:48:27] <alex4nder> you picked up current set resistors too right?
[18:48:33] <alex4nder> for the motors you're using?
[18:49:16] <archivist> I got X and Y and A running then it was producing work, took a month or few to get around to Z
[18:50:03] <joe9> archivist: one month?
[18:50:04] <alex4nder> haha
[18:50:16] <joe9> oh, ok. you waited.
[18:50:23] <joe9> i misunderstood
[18:50:30] <alex4nder> yah, I spent about a month experimenting and getting it to the point I could do a full run.
[18:50:36] <alex4nder> and trusted it
[18:50:37] <archivist> some months I hand set Z for a while
[18:50:59] <joe9> alex4nder: "current set resistors"? i just have the normal resistors.
[18:51:08] <alex4nder> what normal resistors?
[18:51:34] <alex4nder> I'm talking about any resistor you're using to tell the G540 the current limit.
[18:51:51] <joe9> oh, ok. nope, do not have them.
[18:52:07] <alex4nder> go through and read the g540 manual
[18:52:17] <joe9> ok, will do.
[18:54:16] <JT-Shop> joe9: the current set resistor is just a normal resistor used by the G540 to know how much to limit the current
[18:54:50] <joe9> jt-shop, oh, ok, thanks. i have a lot of them. just need to check the power rating, if that's the case.
[18:55:00] * alex4nder facepalms.
[18:55:08] <joe9> will check the g540 for the specs.
[18:56:14] <joe9> alex4nder: why the "facepalms"?
[18:58:11] <joe9> with all the programs running, top, that dd, glxgears, tail, the max jitter has come up to around 270,000 ns
[18:58:27] <JT-Shop> joe9: no power goes through the resistor
[18:58:37] <JT-Shop> just 1/4 watt is fine
[18:58:52] <joe9> oh, ok. I have more than a bunch of them. thanks.
[18:59:19] <ssi> jogging this damn Z axis by hand with an allen wrench is giving me hand cramps
[19:00:12] <pcw_> run the drives with a 5 v supply
[19:00:32] <ssi> I haven't done anything with the drives yet
[19:00:36] <ssi> they don't have a bias supply even
[19:00:39] <ssi> not sure if that matters
[19:00:49] <ssi> I should have main 90v power though
[19:01:47] <pcw_> I mean unplug the motor from the motor drives s and just run them with a little 5V 2A wall wart or something
[19:02:19] <pcw_> They are just DC PM motors
[19:02:31] <ssi> ahh I see what you mean
[19:04:30] <ssi> wow they're quiet
[19:04:35] <ssi> at least X is
[19:05:33] <ssi> yea Z is too
[19:08:29] <tehDarkAura> wheres a good spot to find rectangle tube for telescoping in the us?
[19:08:59] <ssi> great!
[19:09:07] <ssi> Z prox limits seem to be working
[19:09:10] <ssi> everything except Z coarse home
[19:10:32] <tehDarkAura> i want the support for my z axis to be split so my mill will come apart easily for portability...
[19:10:54] <tehDarkAura> so i figgures a 3x1 id rectangle would be perfect
[19:11:12] <JT-Shop> ssi: do you have an allen that fits a socket?
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[19:16:35] <ssi> JT-Shop: no, but running the servos with gosh-darn electricity like pcw suggested works much faster :)
[19:17:16] <Thetawaves> how should i slope the bottom of the pan in my coolant system?
[19:17:50] <Thetawaves> i could use motor but that would be a pain in the ass should i want to move the table
[19:18:02] <Thetawaves> mortar*
[19:18:33] <ssi> beat the low spot with a hammer?
[19:18:56] <Thetawaves> heh
[19:19:11] <pcw_> Move the pan mounting holes?
[19:19:45] <Thetawaves> i've got a flat surface on the desk
[19:19:51] <Thetawaves> but i see what you mean
[19:20:27] <JT-Shop> ssi I rigged up a couple of switches and a power supply to jog mine around
[19:21:19] <alex4nder> joe9: just take your time with the CNC conversion.. there are no real 'instructions' on setting up the taig.. you have to pay close attention to all the details
[19:21:34] <joe9> ok, thanks.
[19:21:38] <alex4nder> you can easily break your brand new mill, and/or your drive electronics.
[19:22:22] <joe9> that scares me.
[19:22:36] <alex4nder> just read everything
[19:22:37] <joe9> will be patient and take it slow.
[19:22:40] <alex4nder> yah
[19:22:52] <joe9> what do you recommend for reading? the g540 manual, and what more.
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[19:23:38] <alex4nder> http://www.cartertools.com/mounts.html
[19:24:43] <JT-Shop> joe9: your being paged
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[19:25:25] <alex4nder> joe9: http://www.micro-machine-shop.com/lead_screw_conversion.htm
[19:26:35] <alex4nder> pretty much everything on micro-machine-shop.com is worth looking oer
[19:26:37] <alex4nder> +v
[19:27:11] <joe9> alex4nder: ok, thanks.
[19:34:31] <ssi> I gotta pull
[19:34:35] <ssi> -12v out of my computer psu
[19:43:53] <ssi> got it
[19:44:06] <ssi> I'm guessing the bias supply for these servo amps doesn't need to be super stiff
[19:44:14] <ssi> s/guessing/hoping/ :)
[19:48:17] <ssi> now I gotta figure out how the pwm outs work
[19:49:27] <ssi> I think the servo drives want a 0
[19:49:33] <ssi> 0-biased velocity command
[19:49:55] <ssi> but it looks like the 7i49 puts out a positive aout and then a +ena -ena
[19:50:07] <skunkKandT> unless you offset it- 0 command is 0v
[19:50:25] <ssi> yea i'm just not sure how to handle direction
[19:50:29] <ssi> without building some support circuitry
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[19:51:50] <skunkKandT> what are the amps?
[19:51:57] <ssi> GE 50 series
[19:52:03] <skunkKandT> not +/-10v input?
[19:52:13] <ssi> yea I think they're +/-10v
[19:52:16] <ssi> or close to it anyway
[19:52:38] <pcw_> 7I49 is +-10
[19:52:39] <skunkKandT> you don't have mesa d/a?
[19:52:39] <ssi> ok nm
[19:52:45] <skunkKandT> heh
[19:52:48] <ssi> I'm just confused about what the 7i49 does :)
[19:52:52] <ssi> I see that it's +/-10v now
[19:53:02] <pcw_> You do need to set PWM mode to 2
[19:53:28] <pcw_> or you will have funny output behavior
[19:53:32] <ssi> that's output-type?
[19:53:55] <ssi> and what's pdm freq?
[19:54:00] <ssi> I'm setting pwm freq to 24000
[19:54:21] <pcw_> yes up down PWM instead of of PWM/DIR
[19:54:37] <pcw_> PDM freq is dont-care
[19:54:55] <ssi> ok
[19:55:27] <ssi> and I believe both enables on both amps are wired together right now, and I just get one enable signal back to my control
[19:55:34] <ssi> should I just pick one enable to use?
[19:56:24] <ssi> it's not actually enable, its pull down to inhibit
[19:57:09] <pcw_> pull down from what voltage?
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[19:57:51] <ssi> it's 10.8 right now
[19:57:56] <ssi> might be high impedance though
[19:58:26] <pcw_> thats akward
[19:58:31] <ssi> yes
[19:58:57] <ssi> and no, it's definitely not high impedance :/
[19:59:12] <pcw_> because it need an 'on' switch to disable
[19:59:58] <pcw_> does that run a relay?
[20:00:34] <ssi> no that's a terminal on the drive itself, no relay
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[20:00:56] <pcw_> so the amps are enabled by default if enable is unconnected? , thats just wrong
[20:01:07] <ssi> I guess so!
[20:01:13] <ssi> lemme read the book to double check
[20:02:59] <ssi> yeah, it seems to be an active inhibit
[20:03:04] <ssi> it used to be wired to a toggle switch
[20:03:28] <pcw_> maybe theres another enable
[20:04:03] <JT-Shop> mine needed to be pulled down to 0v IIRC to be enabled
[20:04:17] <ssi> oh really
[20:04:31] <pcw_> That makes more sense
[20:04:33] <ssi> this manual is clear as mud about it
[20:05:05] <ssi> jt: how much current does it draw when you pull it down
[20:05:12] <pcw_> maybe its active high "inhibit"
[20:05:16] <ssi> according to the blown fuse in my meter, the answer is >400ma
[20:05:34] <ssi> which seeems wrong
[20:06:05] <pcw_> That does seem wrong (more like you hit power)
[20:06:21] <ssi> ok now I see where it says "closes to run"
[20:07:12] <JT-Shop> ssi: I think I just used a little relay to enable the drives ... let me look
[20:07:31] <pcw_> you can alway use a 50 Ohm or so resistor to ground it when testing so you dont blow and more fuses
[20:07:47] <ssi> considering I don't have anymore fuses to blow at the moment, that's a grand idea
[20:07:52] <JT-Shop> no, it was CR20 that I used
[20:07:57] <ssi> CR20?
[20:07:57] <JT-Shop> one if the SSR's
[20:07:59] <ssi> ah ok
[20:08:14] <ssi> you have DC ssrs in yours?
[20:08:32] <ssi> mine has 11 AC ssrs, and they're all in the lathe, not in the control
[20:09:07] <JT-Shop> yes, they are all in the main power and drive cabinet, a whole slew of them
[20:09:15] <JT-Shop> about 30 or so
[20:09:42] <JT-Shop> they are all driven by the 7i37 outputs
[20:17:14] <ssi> I guess I'm gonna have to jumper them down until I can get some DC SSRs
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[20:19:47] <ssi> oh wow
[20:19:50] <ssi> when I pull down inhibit
[20:19:53] <ssi> the monitor goes all wonky
[20:19:59] <ssi> it's sitting right next to the drives
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[20:53:44] <ssi> so what does it mean if the servo drive sits at +20V when I'm not commanding a position
[20:54:43] <ssi> the other one seems to sit at 35V
[20:54:51] <ssi> I don't have the motors connected yet,
[20:55:07] <ssi> but I turned my ferror up to 5", and I'm able to jog and make the drives spin up to +100 or -100V
[20:55:08] <pcw_> input voltage is 0?
[20:56:00] <ssi> seems to be!
[20:57:39] <ssi> I apologize for my ignorance... I've never worked with servos before, and these drives seem a bit obtuse
[20:57:49] <ssi> and I'm just very scared of letting the motors loose to break stuff
[20:58:01] <ssi> especially the fragile and unobtainable little couplers
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[21:07:14] <Mjolinor> why the hell do manufacturers use non standard things. I am rebuilding a smart engine and need a timing chain. 8mm pitch. Standard is 8mm pitch, 5 mm roller adn 3 mm internal width. If that is not strong enough then use duplex or triplex
[21:07:31] <Loetmichel> ssi: for the first test: decouple the motors from the leadscrews ;.)
[21:07:31] <Mjolinor> Not bloody mercedes they have a "let's make our own chain"
[21:07:56] <Mjolinor> so the timing chain is 8 x 5 x 5 nothing fits except a proper chain at 60£
[21:08:10] <Mjolinor> most annoying
[21:08:30] <Mjolinor> normal 8mm chain is £30 for 5 metres, this chain is maybe half a metre long and it's £60
[21:08:39] <Mjolinor> robbing gits
[21:08:39] <Loetmichel> Mjolinor: normal. so they can sell it for exorbitant spare part prices
[21:08:47] <ssi> Loetmichel: I don't know how easy that's going to be
[21:08:58] <ssi> Loetmichel: and the resolvers are coupled to the screw, not the motor
[21:09:07] <Mjolinor> I'm already in tehre to the tune of £300 and I haven't rebored the thing, just crank and a rering
[21:09:11] <Mjolinor> depressing it is
[21:09:28] <pcw_> ssi: I would first see if you can zero the drives output voltage with its analog input pins shorted together
[21:09:37] <ssi> ok
[21:10:04] <pcw_> there should be a input zero pot
[21:10:11] <Loetmichel> ssi: thats bad
[21:10:28] <ssi> there used to be a gain pot for each axis on the back of the control
[21:10:39] <ssi> but I'm not sure if those were attached to the drives or to the control
[21:10:41] <Loetmichel> maybe you can dial down the max. current to "nondestruct"-levels?
[21:11:29] <ssi> I can't find anywhere on the drives that those would have attached
[21:11:38] <ssi> and they were just wired into the point to point hell that was the logic backplane
[21:12:30] <pcw_> Output voltage with no load may not be terribly useful because the drives likely have a current control PI loop (which may saturate with no motor)
[21:13:16] <ssi> pcw_: by that do you mean that I need to just hook up the motors?
[21:14:19] <ssi> I'd like to figure out how to scale my pwm output so I can limit it... right now i can jog up to 15ipm velocity, and that produces full-scale voltage at the drives
[21:14:22] <ssi> 110V or so
[21:14:23] <pcw_> this is where you short out the inputs (dont short the 7I49 outputs, disconnect it)
[21:14:24] <pcw_> and very carefully enable the drives/ and be ready to pull the plug/enable
[21:14:32] <ssi> aha
[21:14:40] <ssi> I did wire the enable to a toggle switch
[21:15:34] <ssi> so with a shorted input, they should just sit
[21:16:14] <pcw_> they may creep or take off if there a problem
[21:17:18] <pcw_> If motors/tachs are disconnected the voltage out from the amps is meaningless
[21:18:50] <pcw_> (which means this is not time to worry about PWM scaling)
[21:19:18] <ssi> gotcha
[21:19:26] <ssi> jumpering the inputs now
[21:23:29] <ssi> looking good
[21:23:42] <ssi> hooked up the X servo, when I flipped enable the motor started whining a little bit but it didn't move
[21:27:12] <ssi> trying Z now
[21:27:23] <ssi> both look good
[21:27:33] <ssi> is it safe to try to hook up the PWM?
[21:27:41] <ssi> or what sort of things should I double check first
[21:28:09] <pcw_> I would not do that until you determine feedback direction
[21:28:27] <ssi> ok... not sure how to go about that
[21:29:09] <pcw_> can you make a small voltage source (say 1.5v battery divided by 5 or so so 300 mV)
[21:29:23] <ssi> I have an adjustable bench supply
[21:29:40] <pcw_> will it go down to 0?
[21:29:44] <ssi> I believe so
[21:29:46] <ssi> I'll double check
[21:30:43] <ssi> yeah it goes down to zero, and the readout is to 0.1v precision
[21:31:00] <ssi> with fine adjust I can probably dial it in 25mv increments easily
[21:32:10] <pcw_> make sure you are centered between your stops (so you have some time) and briefly connect
[21:32:12] <pcw_> the + power to the drives analog in and see (and write down) which direction the axis moves
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[21:34:41] <ssi> ok I have like 120mv on the supply
[21:36:02] <pcw_> that _should_ be about 1.2% of full speed so safe, make sure your lab supply ground is same as the drive input gnd
[21:36:08] <ssi> yeah it's quite slow
[21:36:16] <ssi> moving positive
[21:36:21] <ssi> toward the tailstock, +Z
[21:36:38] <pcw_> so positive in = positive Z
[21:36:40] <ssi> yes
[21:36:46] <ssi> and resolver position is increasing toward +Z as well
[21:38:14] <pcw_> If you have the PWM setup and PID setup the 7I49 analog out should go negative when you move positive
[21:39:41] <pcw_> you probably have to restart EMC so that the command position and actual position start out at the same place
[21:41:12] <pcw_> (dont jog or home or anything))
[21:41:14] <pcw_> then if you move the motors positive, the analog out should move negative (to resist the "error" you are creating)
[21:42:30] <ssi> does it have to be in machine-on for that to happen?
[21:43:09] <pcw_> yes
[21:44:30] <pcw_> your basically running the machine with the feedback loop disconnected so you can see how it behaves before closing the loop
[21:44:38] <ssi> I can't seem to make that happening without it faulting due to follow errors
[21:44:53] <ssi> but I'm basically seeing nothing on the vout
[21:45:06] <pcw_> (to make sure you dont have positive feedback)
[21:45:28] <ssi> and the pid isn't really set up at all
[21:45:31] <pcw_> I though you had 5 inches of FE
[21:45:33] <ssi> it's set to 1/0/0 right now
[21:45:41] <ssi> I do have 5" of FE, but it's not seeming to let me
[21:46:11] <ssi> it was letting me jog for 5" of command before faulting before
[21:46:19] <ssi> but if the axis actually moves, it faults immediately
[21:46:25] <ssi> I didn't change MIN_FERROR, should I?
[21:46:33] <pcw_> yes
[21:47:44] <pcw_> closing the loop is not going to work too well until the resolver inputs are scaled correctly
[21:47:47] <ssi> ok yes
[21:47:55] <ssi> when I go positive, I get negative aout
[21:48:01] <ssi> and my resolver inputs are scaled correctly
[21:48:13] <pcw_> got some resistors?
[21:48:17] <ssi> I've put a dial indicator on the axes and ensured that I get linear travel equal to the delta position on the DRO
[21:48:20] <ssi> sure
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[21:48:38] <ssi> oh you mean the 1v rms scaling
[21:48:43] <pcw_> i meant the electrical scale
[21:48:47] <ssi> right ok
[21:48:50] <ssi> I guess I need to get on that
[21:48:59] <ssi> so I need a divider per leg of drive, yes?
[21:49:03] <ssi> and those need to mach
[21:49:04] <ssi> match
[21:49:34] <ssi> and I'm looking for roughly 1/3 scale
[21:49:42] <ssi> I can't remember what overall impedance you said I needed
[21:49:53] <ssi> but 2k2/1k or 22k/10k should do the trick
[21:49:53] <pcw_> Yeah but we will send you a High input version sometime next week to try
[21:50:23] <pcw_> Yeah
[21:50:36] <pcw_> one the inputs (not drive)
[21:50:37] <ssi> for what it's worth, the dros seem to track the axis movement very well
[21:50:55] <ssi> ah I thought you had said that I could scale the drive for simplicity
[21:51:19] <ssi> if I Scale the inputs, do all four networks need to match very closely?
[21:51:30] <ssi> or just match the sin- network to the sin+ network etc
[21:51:33] <pcw_> You can scale the drive but its better to scale the inputs
[21:51:44] <pcw_> Yes we use .1% for all
[21:52:01] <ssi> I won't be able to use .1%, but I can hand select some 10%s :D
[21:52:24] <pcw_> I would just wait for our high input card
[21:52:42] <ssi> well if i try to close the loop as is, what can I expect?
[21:55:04] <pcw_> since the resolver is geared down so much (.020 per electrical turn) you will get repeatable cycle position errors with a 5 mill cycle (20 mills/quadrature) (might scream when you jog)
[21:55:50] <ssi> ok
[21:55:53] <ssi> I can live with that for testing
[21:55:58] <pcw_> s/cycle/cyclic/
[21:57:42] <ssi> I have Z jogging
[22:00:47] <Mjolinor> it can be cured, see a doctor
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[22:04:06] <pcw_> you should go through the same exercise for X to make sure the feedback is correct before closing the loop (to prevent runaways)
[22:04:42] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[22:05:23] <pcw_> gn9
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[22:08:21] <ssi> yeah working on that
[22:08:26] <ssi> for some reason I can't seem to move the X axis now
[22:08:58] <ssi> confirmed a half volt on the position voltage terminals on the servo amp, but I have zero volts out on the motor leads
[22:09:01] <ssi> and enable is in fact on
[22:12:44] <pcw_> hmm so the drives have just the enable in, analog and tach inputs and motor out?
[22:14:04] <ssi> and a +/-12v bias supply
[22:15:06] <pcw_> you could check pin/pin with Z and see if anythings different
[22:17:16] <ssi> yeah that's what I've been doing
[22:17:19] <ssi> I'm not sure what's changed
[22:18:25] <pcw_> is there a drive fault output, maybe you tripped a fault somehow
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[22:22:14] <ssi> yea there's a /FAULTTRIP pin
[22:22:15] <ssi> lemme check it
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[22:23:42] <ssi> seems like maybe it's a sinking output...
[22:23:49] <ssi> I see 1V on the Z drive, and 0V on the X drive
[22:24:11] <ssi> JT-Shop: does your machine have the GE PWM50 drives?
[22:24:41] <JT-Shop> no, siemens
[22:24:48] <pcw_> maybe cycle ye old power
[22:25:20] <ssi> oh yeah I forgot that cycling the enable doesn't cycle the power
[22:25:22] <ssi> I'm a brilliant one
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[22:29:38] <ssi> no such luck
[22:29:41] <ssi> I'll have to deal with it later
[22:29:44] <ssi> I hope I didn't kill this amp
[22:30:32] <pcw_> the motor and tach are connected?
[22:30:40] <ssi> yeah
[22:31:20] <pcw_> are there drive manuals around?
[22:31:38] <ssi> I'm holding one
[22:31:43] <ssi> going through the troubleshooting section
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[22:37:52] <ssi> nothing remarkably useful so far :/
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[22:44:26] <mirage335> Is there an efficient FOSS tool for editing ngc files? pcb2gcode has left double isolation traces around some of my ground places, and I want to correct that
[22:51:39] <pcw_> vi?
[22:51:59] <mirage335> No. That is not efficient. :|
[22:52:32] <mirage335> I need something at least visual enough to tell which bits of code produce which traces.
[22:52:48] <mirage335> 12k lines of random text editing != fun
[22:53:01] <pcw_> Depends
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[22:54:47] <pcw_> ssi is there a schematic?
[22:55:22] <pcw_> i would be tempted to trace the fault backwards from the fault output
[22:56:02] <mirage335> hmm
[22:56:05] <mirage335> There is a schematic.
[22:56:39] <mirage335> The problem is that pcb will draw isolation traces around the ground plane, as well as isolation traces around the tracks that contain it.
[22:56:50] <pcw_> Sorry that was for ssi
[22:56:54] <mirage335> I don't really think I can fix this in gschem or pcb.
[22:57:47] <pcw_> well i guess you could single step though the gcode around the interesting parts
[22:58:03] <mirage335> That's what I've been doing so far. Painful.
[23:00:33] <mirage335> Thanks for the help anyway. bbl
[23:00:38] <pcw_> I dont quite understand what you mean, what is the ground plane (and why would pcb2gcode know anything about it
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[23:15:52] <raynerd> Guys, I was discussing this earlier today on here but never came to a conclusion. To attempt, attempt being the key word, what engravinh bits would you use for etching something like a dog collar tag? - i.e fine written engraving
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[23:24:24] <raynerd> :(
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[23:49:01] <mirage335> pcw_: Polygons in gschem are my ground plane (bulk copper areas connected to ground).
[23:49:24] <mirage335> pcb2gcode treated them as separate tracks, and drew isolation lines for them
[23:50:08] <pcw_> so its a PCB2gcode issue
[23:50:50] <pcw_> what about the voronoi scheme?
[23:56:39] <mirage335> Hmm...
[23:56:50] <mirage335> Voroni means all the extra copper is removed, right?