#linuxcnc | Logs for 2012-03-21

[00:00:08] <Valen> raynerd: what driver?
[00:00:23] <Loetmichel> Valen: he said above: TB6560
[00:00:24] <raynerd> TB6560 3 axis cheapo all in one chinese thing.
[00:00:30] <Valen> oh those suck
[00:00:32] <Valen> lots
[00:00:40] <raynerd> yes, but cheap and I have one free :D
[00:00:52] <Loetmichel> Valen: cant second that
[00:00:55] <Valen> yeah, now go get a gecko and your problems will be solved
[00:01:04] <SolarNRG> g550?
[00:01:08] <Loetmichel> IF you know what to expect they are quite useable
[00:01:22] <Valen> he's getting about what i expect ;->
[00:01:30] <Loetmichel> hrhr
[00:01:36] <raynerd> so you think a few of my issues are down to the driver?
[00:01:41] <Loetmichel> no, i have some 6560s here
[00:01:44] <raynerd> noise, slugish
[00:02:12] <Valen> my friends who have used those drivers have said the same things after many hours of tweaking, they plugged a gecko in and had no problems
[00:02:24] <Valen> if Loetmichel has the touch, then by all means listen to him
[00:02:37] <raynerd> put it this way... vcarve estimates a cutting time of 10 minutes and it actually takes nearer 30-40 minutes for a small piece!
[00:02:41] <Loetmichel> they are a bit allergic to overvoltage and polarity mismatch, and a motor disconnect in unse will most certanly blow them, but once configured correct the run like a charm
[00:02:51] <SolarNRG> Would the X3 be more accurate than an X2 or can the X2 still do steel accurately but with a slower feed?
[00:03:10] <Valen> probably still do steel
[00:03:10] <ssi> heavier is more accurate
[00:03:11] <ssi> always
[00:03:17] <raynerd> my problem is I don`t know enough about it to "config correctly"!!!
[00:03:31] <Valen> well theres "accuracy"
[00:03:37] <raynerd> The X2 is small and hard work on steel
[00:03:38] <Loetmichel> hrhr, been there, done3 that, raynerd
[00:03:39] <ssi> X2 will take an order of magnitude more time to cut the same volume of steel
[00:03:41] <raynerd> I know because I have one!
[00:03:44] <Valen> and none of these are really going to be accurate
[00:03:51] <Loetmichel> was a bit of experimenting and tweaking
[00:03:58] <Loetmichel> but now they run
[00:04:08] <Valen> you can make accurate parts on them
[00:04:13] <raynerd> what values are you talking about
[00:04:19] <Valen> but you need to learn to compensate for the machine
[00:04:36] <raynerd> www.raynerd.co.uk my site, any milled bits have been made on the X2...good enough to make a clock including the wheels!
[00:04:40] <ssi> SolarNRG: are you starting to get an idea of why everyone laughed at you when you said you wanted to build a machine from scratch using a hacksaw and a dremel tool that would cut steel for turbine parts?
[00:04:59] <Valen> IE cut your block .1 undersize because the tool will bend that much during a finish cut
[00:05:07] <SolarNRG> Can an X2 mill a 150mm diameter turbine fan blade made from stainless accurate enough so it won't flow off balance?
[00:05:16] <raynerd> Easily!!!!
[00:05:35] <Valen> I'd say ~ the 10th one would probably not suck
[00:05:37] <raynerd> infact, I think there is button to do that... you just put your stainless on and press it...
[00:05:51] <Valen> I think you would break ~6 tools learning how to do it
[00:05:52] <SolarNRG> Sounds like the X2 is the machine for me, I can bolt it to my kitchen bench!
[00:05:56] <ssi> raynerd: don't lead the poor boy on
[00:06:00] <Valen> and cut time would be about 2 days
[00:06:09] <Loetmichel> Valen: an old co-worker said once to me: " ANY idiot can do precision work on a new CNC machine. the REAL masters can take a lathe with the "hakenkreuz" on it an turn a axle with fits for bearings and anything."
[00:06:42] <SolarNRG> 2 days, for 1 150mm diam fan?
[00:06:46] <Valen> after you replace the acme screws with ballscrews
[00:07:13] <raynerd> Loetmichel...can you take any screen shots of your setup config pages for the TB6560 pleaseeeee?
[00:07:13] <Valen> and bolt about 20kg of steel box section to it to rigidise it
[00:07:14] <ssi> SolarNRG: it takes a REALLY long time to cut something when you can only take a half mm at a time
[00:07:25] <Valen> and back fill it with epoxy granite
[00:07:30] <Loetmichel> raynerd: not possible because german
[00:07:38] <ssi> SolarNRG: get as much machine as you can afford, learn to run it manually
[00:07:40] <raynerd> booo...
[00:07:41] <raynerd> lol
[00:07:58] <Loetmichel> but its dependant on your machine anyways
[00:07:58] <Valen> we only take half a mm in stainless with carbide tools, 6000 RPM, 6mm ball mill
[00:07:59] <ssi> SolarNRG: if you can possibly afford the X3, it's a much better choice
[00:08:21] <SolarNRG> My Dad can afford it, but a) can I lift it?
[00:08:26] <SolarNRG> b) Will it fit in my door?
[00:08:29] <Valen> cutting a kinfe handle on our machine took ~6 hours or so
[00:08:47] <Valen> I have helped 2 friends with X3 sized mills and lathes
[00:08:48] <raynerd> SolarNRG - I`m 28, I`ve no experience in machining but always had an interest. If your serious, go get a cheapo lathe and learn to use it... then get a mill, then go CNC and then try a make your turbine!
[00:09:01] <Valen> one strong guy and one medium guy can lift them
[00:09:10] <Valen> also don't bother with their work bench
[00:09:16] <Loetmichel> Valen: i did a mold for a model jet tiptank once
[00:09:20] <SolarNRG> Get the X3 minus the bench?
[00:09:21] <Loetmichel> 32hrs
[00:09:29] <Valen> I'd cast up a concrete bed for it
[00:09:41] <Valen> but then thats me lol
[00:09:46] <SolarNRG> 3 parts sand, 1 part cement, easy
[00:09:47] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=7338
[00:09:49] <SolarNRG> bit of water
[00:09:52] <Loetmichel> ... but in MDF
[00:10:14] <SolarNRG> hmm
[00:10:25] <SolarNRG> I don't think it would survive burning kerosene somehow
[00:10:26] <Valen> look at post-tensioning it
[00:10:36] <Loetmichel> (thats about 800mm the long axis)
[00:10:43] <Valen> then paint it in waterproofing
[00:11:01] <Valen> the table they have isn't crap, but it leaks
[00:11:19] <Valen> if your going to CnC it, you will want flood coolant and an enclosure
[00:11:23] -!- bedah has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
[00:11:28] <Valen> they spray crap everywhere
[00:11:41] <SolarNRG> Can I ring up axminster and ask them for an X3 without the silly cabinet?
[00:11:58] <Valen> usually the stand is extra ;-.
[00:12:29] <ssi> sometimes it is
[00:12:32] <Valen> it might be worth getting the stand to start, but if you plan on replacing it as part of your CnC upgrade its probably a good idea
[00:12:35] <ssi> my BF20 had it included
[00:12:43] <Valen> i do suggest getting the combo mill/lathe
[00:12:53] <ssi> I can't imagine why
[00:13:02] <ssi> unless you want a terrible mill AND a terrible lathe
[00:13:07] <SolarNRG> Axminster seem to be the only UK supplier of the x3s and x2s
[00:13:07] <ssi> instead of just a sorta bad mill
[00:13:19] <Valen> they are all the same hardware ssi
[00:13:20] -!- raynerd has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
[00:13:24] <SolarNRG> I was asking this earlier about the clarke combi for 700 quid
[00:13:30] <ssi> looks like that combo machine is round column
[00:13:31] <SolarNRG> column mount again
[00:13:34] <Loetmichel> raynerd: one tip before i go to bed: dial up the timings at the start of the wizard
[00:13:39] <ssi> and it's really more of a drill head than anything else
[00:13:52] <Valen> ssi if he gets an X3 lathe, you can bolt the X3 mill head to the middle of the bed
[00:13:53] <Loetmichel> the normal settings are a bit short
[00:14:01] <ssi> the combo machine that andy has is basically my g0602 lathe with a worthless milling attachment
[00:14:01] <SolarNRG> With the X3 will I have to repeatedly spray the steel with wd40?
[00:14:13] <Valen> SolarNRG: you need cutting fluid
[00:14:15] <Loetmichel> and double check for right polarity of the Step/dir signals!
[00:14:17] <SolarNRG> 3in1?
[00:14:24] <ssi> SolarNRG: I like mobilmet
[00:14:35] <Valen> http://www.mfg.mtu.edu/testbeds/cfest/pictures/drilcool.gif
[00:14:36] <Loetmichel> <- bedtime
[00:15:27] <Valen> http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL04F6B774F23F6873&feature=mh_lolz is our mill cutting stuff
[00:16:06] <Valen> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frIssODebKA&feature=related is a good one
[00:17:02] <SolarNRG> Cor that's a lot of fluid
[00:19:03] <Valen> not enough actually
[00:19:33] <Valen> stainless you need lots
[00:19:45] <Valen> we are mostly using it to clear chips
[00:20:02] <SolarNRG> Can you recycle the fluid??
[00:20:09] <Valen> yes
[00:20:18] <Valen> we use an aquarium pump
[00:20:22] <SolarNRG> LOL
[00:20:53] <SolarNRG> Does the tray on the x3 have a resevoir like that?
[00:21:08] <Valen> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-iYyTQ7qW0 about 1:30 into it
[00:21:45] <Valen> no resevoir but the tray is cupped
[00:21:53] <Valen> but it'll leak
[00:23:44] <SolarNRG> Highly advanced
[00:24:14] <SolarNRG> Isn't that how the SR71 was able to do mach 3.25 by spraying coolant over itself?
[00:24:21] <Valen> uhh no
[00:24:27] <Valen> they made the thing out of titanium
[00:25:11] <SolarNRG> ive only touched titanium once
[00:25:15] <SolarNRG> what's it like to machine?
[00:25:26] <Valen> this is a not a toy machine http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3AqIZURMbI&feature=related
[00:25:35] <Valen> go about 2 minutes in
[00:26:46] <Valen> 1:44 is exciting
[00:28:25] <SolarNRG> wow
[00:28:33] <Valen> depends on the titanium if its work hardening you need to hit it hard
[00:28:52] <Valen> many stainlesses are like that too
[00:29:17] <SolarNRG> i take it an x3 couldn't do what that not-toy machine could do
[00:29:36] <SolarNRG> the spray looked very eficient too
[00:29:37] <Valen> lol
[00:29:43] <Valen> you could make the same part
[00:29:49] <SolarNRG> only spraying when milling
[00:29:54] <Valen> but it'd probably take an hour
[00:29:57] <Valen> that wasnt a spray
[00:30:00] <Valen> they weren't using coolant
[00:30:03] <SolarNRG> ???
[00:30:04] <Valen> that was metal flying off
[00:30:05] <SolarNRG> No coolant?
[00:30:10] <SolarNRG> :o
[00:30:13] <SolarNRG> But how?
[00:30:22] <Valen> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccK5osNCGW4&feature=related is what you want to watch
[00:30:44] <Valen> they are using inconel, its about 2x as hard as stainless
[00:30:55] <Valen> coolant makes for not nice videos
[00:31:03] <Valen> but makes the carbide last longer
[00:31:26] <Valen> note the time frames in the videos
[00:33:17] <Valen> also its a 5 axis
[00:34:49] <SolarNRG> Woah, that's a turbine in one piece!
[00:34:55] <Loetmichel> like someone said to me: "if you see a steady stream of dark red hot chips flying from the mill bit you have the right F
[00:34:57] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[00:35:03] <SolarNRG> I was thinking about making the blades separaretly and banging them in
[00:35:08] <Valen> thats how they make power turbines
[00:35:21] <Valen> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8n2w868R9v0&feature=related is how you do it Loetmichel ;->
[00:35:28] <Valen> ceramic tools ftw
[00:35:41] <Valen> i want some but i can never find them in smaller sizes
[00:36:33] <SolarNRG> That looks very dangerous!
[00:36:36] <Valen> lol at when they put the other cutter on
[00:36:56] <Valen> eh, machines are enclosed
[00:37:08] <SolarNRG> Can I make my own plexiglass enclosure?
[00:37:19] <Valen> we made ours with a shower curtain ;->
[00:39:15] <SolarNRG> Its musical
[00:40:46] <SolarNRG> I think the blades are made from Invar
[00:40:54] <SolarNRG> 37 percent nickel
[00:41:00] <SolarNRG> Makes them really brittle
[00:41:07] <SolarNRG> But doesn't deform under hi temp
[00:41:50] <Valen> its inconel
[00:43:54] <SolarNRG> What an exotic alloy!
[00:44:00] <SolarNRG> A bit of niobium
[00:44:03] <SolarNRG> Tiny trace of boron
[00:44:20] <SolarNRG> even sulfur!
[00:44:20] <Valen> morfic works at a place they make stuff out of straight cobalt
[00:44:24] <Valen> that would be fun to machine
[00:44:31] <SolarNRG> Hard metal that
[00:45:04] <SolarNRG> What's the advantage of inconel over invar?
[00:45:53] <Valen> its designed to go in the hot end of a gas turbine?
[00:46:03] <Valen> not a clock ;->
[00:46:46] <SolarNRG> They made the Saturn V's big engines out of it
[00:47:01] <Valen> mmm don't think so
[00:47:17] <SolarNRG> Says so on wiki so it MUST be true L<OL
[00:47:44] <SolarNRG> Inconel x750
[00:48:15] <Valen> ahh yeah
[00:48:22] <Valen> inconel i'd believe not invar
[00:49:26] <Valen> probably find that most of it is made of Al or copper
[00:49:32] <Valen> got a link to its use of inconel?
[00:49:45] <SolarNRG> You'll kick yourself with the link
[00:49:46] <SolarNRG> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inconel
[00:51:06] <Valen> mmm his refrence disagrees with mine
[00:51:57] <SolarNRG> Not everything on wiki is true, its publicly edited
[00:52:10] <Valen> perhaps its just unclear
[00:52:20] <Valen> it could well be used for bits and pieces
[00:52:30] <SolarNRG> Ever heard of tantalum hafnium carbide? Its meant to have a melting point above diamond's sublimation point
[00:52:41] <Valen> but its thermal conductivity is fairly low for whats usually used in rockets
[00:54:12] <SolarNRG> I've always been fascinated by this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tantalum_hafnium_carbide
[00:55:14] <Valen> $9,540/kg
[00:55:17] <SolarNRG> :D
[00:55:38] <SolarNRG> I don't know this materials temperature structural math
[00:56:16] <SolarNRG> But my guess is if you had a chamber with walls of this thick enough you could superheat pencil leads in it and recompress superhot gas pencil lead into diamond
[00:56:38] <SolarNRG> All I know is that when you microwave a pencil lead it goes WHITE hot then shatters the microwave
[00:56:54] <SolarNRG> The walls would have to be thick enough to withstand the blast
[00:57:48] <Valen> just make them of Al and cool them
[00:57:55] <Valen> 's how you normally handle hot stuff
[00:58:07] <SolarNRG> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lo5GsOZAgsk
[00:58:16] <Valen> and the microwave shattering is probably a steam explosion from the wood
[00:58:19] <SolarNRG> A good example of carbon sublimation
[00:58:26] <SolarNRG> They took the wood off
[00:58:42] <SolarNRG> If you microwave a pencil with the wood, the wood burns but the pencil lead stays intact!
[00:59:09] <SolarNRG> Solid to gas transition
[00:59:11] <SolarNRG> Explosion
[00:59:19] <Valen> that didn't explode
[00:59:24] <Valen> or break anything
[00:59:33] <Valen> there isn't enough energy there do do anything that drastic
[00:59:41] <Valen> its shiny because its a conductor
[00:59:49] <Valen> put foil in microwave and the same thing will happen
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[01:00:23] <SolarNRG> Not necessarily
[01:00:31] <SolarNRG> Here's my own experiment
[01:00:31] <SolarNRG> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSKl1konZ0U
[01:00:35] <SolarNRG> Not one spark
[01:00:38] <SolarNRG> Believe me I tried
[01:00:55] <SolarNRG> The graphite just conducts heat and the clay absorbs it
[01:01:06] <Valen> theres no sharp edges on there to make sparks
[01:01:21] <Valen> and theres lots of stuff there to absorb the microwaves
[01:01:43] <Valen> I'd just use a butane torch and a bean can myself
[01:02:28] <SolarNRG> Going back to my original idea, if you had a chamber able to withstand the heat and pressure of carbon sublimation....
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[01:02:45] <Valen> if you want to make diamond look at how they make diamond
[01:02:48] <SolarNRG> Wouldn't you have pure carbon gas?
[01:02:50] <Valen> CFD
[01:02:53] <Valen> bah
[01:02:54] <Valen> CVD
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[01:02:58] <SolarNRG> I am familliar with this
[01:03:05] <SolarNRG> I'm hypothesizing a different method
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[01:03:35] <Valen> if you wanted a high temp high pressure system you make the chamber out of copper or Al, then run coolant through it
[01:03:36] <SolarNRG> Theoretically this method could make a diamond of any size as long as you have enough tantalum hafnium carbide
[01:03:43] <Valen> heat the inside with a microwave exciter
[01:03:49] <SolarNRG> Sure
[01:04:02] <Valen> make the chamber a meter across
[01:04:26] <SolarNRG> Surely the more graphite you use, the more powerful the explosion?
[01:04:37] <Valen> why would you want it to explode?
[01:04:54] <SolarNRG> My theory is that with this method you could make super-large diamonds
[01:05:14] <Valen> if your wanting to vapourise carbon just use 2 hunks of graphite and strike an arc
[01:05:27] <SolarNRG> OK
[01:05:46] <SolarNRG> Now how do I make carbon a liquid?
[01:05:51] * JT-Shop notices it is time to hang the phone up and let the modem cool down
[01:05:56] <Valen> pretty sure you cant
[01:06:09] -!- JT-Shop has quit [Quit: ChatZilla [Firefox 10.0.2/20120215223356]]
[01:06:10] * Valen offers JT-Shop a water cooling block
[01:06:13] <Valen> dangg
[01:06:34] <SolarNRG> Not even if I had a tantalum hafnium carbide chamber with walls meters thick and a tantalum hafnium carbide piston that once the graphite detonates, I then push down on the piston slowly?
[01:06:51] <SolarNRG> Like if I have enough air in a big enough syringe and I press it hard enough, I get liquid air
[01:07:11] <SolarNRG> If I have 3700 degrees C carbon gas in a chamber that can withstand the heat?
[01:07:16] <SolarNRG> Surely the same applies?
[01:07:23] <Valen> well what do you know it has a liquid phase
[01:07:24] <Valen> http://phycomp.technion.ac.il/~anastasy/teza/teza/node5.html
[01:07:24] <SolarNRG> Then when the liquid carbon cools, it's diamond
[01:08:04] <Valen> you need a temperature of around 5K kelvin
[01:08:15] <SolarNRG> Nope could not be done
[01:08:16] <Valen> at a pressure of 300 atmospheres
[01:08:19] <SolarNRG> 4500 kelvin
[01:08:30] <SolarNRG> Hafnium Tantalum carbide can only do 4488k
[01:08:42] <Valen> you keep wanting to have the walls take the heat of the melt
[01:08:44] <Valen> dont do that
[01:09:03] <Valen> make the walls of your chamber ~300C
[01:09:05] <Valen> or less
[01:09:24] <SolarNRG> Yeah but diamond conducts heat too fast
[01:09:26] <Valen> establish a temperature gradient to the center of the melt
[01:09:28] <Valen> pressurise with helium
[01:09:37] <Valen> the walls wont have diamond
[01:09:41] <Valen> they will have graphite
[01:10:03] <Valen> and so what
[01:10:07] <Valen> use more coolant
[01:10:55] * Valen builds rocket engines, its how its done lol
[01:11:12] <SolarNRG> You made a rocket engine?
[01:11:18] <SolarNRG> I made a bottle rocket once
[01:11:37] * Valen has a degree in space science
[01:11:49] <SolarNRG> I guess its impossible to make a monocrystaline diamond thruster
[01:11:56] <djdelorie> so when he says "it's not rocket science" he means it...
[01:12:16] <Valen> diamond isn't that great a material really
[01:12:21] <Valen> most of the time
[01:12:29] <jdhnc> it has its purpose.
[01:12:46] <Valen> if you want something hard its great
[01:12:48] <jdhnc> mainly for really expensive sex.
[01:12:48] <SolarNRG> Why not? Its really light, it can handle enormous temps, its really strong, only down side is how quickly it conducts heat
[01:12:55] <Valen> but its crap at temperatures and oxidising atmospheres
[01:13:09] <Valen> it will burn at 700C in air
[01:13:14] <SolarNRG> ??
[01:13:32] <Valen> if you hit a diamond with a tool steel hammer theres a decent chance of shattering it
[01:13:35] <SolarNRG> Turn to Carbon Dioxide
[01:13:55] <Valen> yeah, burn
[01:14:32] <SolarNRG> I rang up a ceramics company to get my crucible made, they mentioned a material called Titanium Diboride, is it any good?
[01:14:39] <Valen> nfi
[01:14:40] <jdhnc> did you get someone to order my HUD?
[01:16:24] <SolarNRG> HUD?
[01:16:45] <SolarNRG> Heads up display?
[01:16:57] <jdhnc> yeah, wrong channel, for my rebreather display.
[01:18:26] <Valen> jdhnc: you do rebreathers hmmm
[01:19:26] <jdhnc> yeah, it's not rocket science!
[01:19:57] <SolarNRG> I guess if you've got a CNC machine you can mill your own model de lavel nossle
[01:21:08] <SolarNRG> I think electron beam melters will eventually phase out CNC technology
[01:21:24] <SolarNRG> They sell them on fleabay for 1.5 million at the moment
[01:21:44] <SolarNRG> They can basically 3d print a titanium part
[01:23:14] <SolarNRG> What do you think?
[01:23:36] <jdhnc> did he ever show up?
[01:23:39] <jdhnc> <urk>
[01:23:55] <Valen> eh the material properties of 3d printed stuff is never as good as forged
[01:24:25] <SolarNRG> That's what I thought
[01:24:39] <SolarNRG> But the electron beam melter is different
[01:24:54] <SolarNRG> Unlike lasers which have very finite power or induction coils
[01:25:18] <SolarNRG> EBMs can use very high powered magnets to bombard titanium with electrons to make much stronger bonds
[01:25:27] <SolarNRG> They make medical implants with this tech now
[01:25:32] <SolarNRG> It was invented by the Swedish
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[01:26:03] <Valen> melting is melting
[01:26:35] <SolarNRG> sure
[01:26:39] <Valen> its the hot work that makes forging stronger
[01:28:58] <SolarNRG> Well I'm goign to be working with molten ally later tomorrow
[01:29:03] <SolarNRG> any advice?
[01:29:18] <jdhnc> wear gloves.
[01:29:22] <SolarNRG> Got
[01:29:42] <Valen> beware of water
[01:29:44] <Valen> it'll explode
[01:29:50] <jdhnc> sounds labor and equipment intensive?
[01:29:53] <Valen> like if the mould is damp at all
[01:29:54] <Valen> boom
[01:30:18] <SolarNRG> bake the mold check
[01:30:47] <jdhnc> I have lots of scrap 6061, if you melt it and recast, is it still the same 6061?
[01:31:03] <SolarNRG> what if the beer cans are mildly damp and I add another one to the liquid?
[01:33:19] <Valen> SolarNRG: probably no "boom" but it could well spit
[01:33:34] <Valen> think sausage but with molten Al rather than fat ;->
[01:33:39] <SolarNRG> Ow
[01:33:58] <Valen> jdhnc: its still 6061 as thats a chemical composition
[01:34:09] <Valen> but the rest of the properties are going to be crap ;->
[01:34:32] <jdhnc> that's what I assumed.
[01:38:54] <SolarNRG> Thank you very much for your help tonight Valen
[01:39:03] <Valen> no worries
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[02:47:10] <morfic> <Valen> morfic works at a place they make stuff out of straight cobalt <Valen> that would be fun to machine <--- you think? :)
[02:47:33] <Valen> is "exciting" a better word?
[02:48:01] <morfic> maybe :)
[02:49:01] <jdhnc> what does one make out of straight cobalt?
[02:49:57] <Valen> 'ard stuff
[02:52:20] <morfic> parts used in an abrassive environment
[02:52:30] <Tom_itx> magnets
[02:53:04] <morfic> unfortunately magnets is not what we make, i would have too much fun otherwise :P
[02:53:47] <Tom_itx> pigment for ceramics
[02:55:02] <morfic> you mean the binder in carbide?
[02:55:39] <morfic> at least not aware of any ceramics that contain cobalt?
[02:56:12] <Valen> does straight coblat make a magnet?
[02:56:24] <jdhnc> we take little pellets of cobalt and add neutrons to them.
[02:56:44] <Valen> then spread them over towns you dont like?
[02:57:07] <jdhnc> nah, people like to buy them.
[02:57:22] <Tom_itx> http://www.reference.com/browse/cobalt
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[02:58:32] <jdhnc> they use them for radiaton therapy, gamma knife, some other stuff
[02:59:03] <Valen> i say my one is more fun
[02:59:56] <morfic> Tom_itx: used to color ceramics? i need to complain why we only get boring gray inserts if we could have cool cobalt blue inserts! :P
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[03:03:55] <jdhnc> tried installing the 10.04 livecd on two different systems via both CD and USB drive. They all hang after starting X
[03:04:16] <Valen> tried the vesamodes?
[03:04:30] <jdhnc> nope, I'll look that up.
[03:04:32] <Valen> (sounds like it doesnt like you video)
[03:04:38] <Valen> also how long did you wait
[03:04:49] <Valen> it'll often drop to a black screen for a minute when starting X
[03:04:53] <jdhnc> 10 or 15 mins
[03:05:00] <Valen> yeah thats not it then lol
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[03:05:18] <jdhnc> wasn't black. had a background and the mouse worked
[03:05:44] <Valen> weird
[03:05:54] <Valen> my mini-itx machine does something like that from time to time
[03:06:04] <Valen> but i haven't bothered looking into it more
[03:06:07] <Valen> a reboot usually fixes it
[03:06:09] <jdhnc> switched to a console, everything looked ok, no clue what the installer is though
[03:07:16] <Valen> in console try this
[03:07:21] <Valen> sudo /etc/init.d/gdm restart
[03:07:43] <Valen> or take a look through /var/log/Xorg.0.log (i think)
[03:08:07] <Valen> (i usually use nano for the xorg log, failures are often sprinkled through it)
[03:13:31] <jdhnc> it's going through the install again.
[03:13:51] <jdhnc> I think this is the same ISO I installed on my router pc and it was fine.
[03:14:00] <jdhnc> it has better video though
[03:18:11] <jdhnc> weird... the install completed this time.
[03:18:21] <jdhnc> both ISO's md5sum the same
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[03:21:25] <jdhnc> but, does not boot at all.
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[04:05:17] <djdelorie> whew, controllers all fixed :-)
[04:06:08] <djdelorie> 110 VDC through the current sensing electronics, took out an 0.5 cent resistor :-)
[04:07:09] <djdelorie> and not the expensive everything else ;-)
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[04:27:07] <frysteev_> anyone have a mesa 7173 in action?
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[04:28:35] <ssi> the pendant board?
[04:33:26] <jdhnc> anyone know if a netmos 9815 pci p-port card will work with a 7i43?
[04:34:00] <frysteev_> ssi: ya
[04:34:10] <frysteev_> http://www.aliexpress.com/product-fm/528498049-CNC-USB-Manual-Pulse-Generator-remote-pendant-for-MACH-3-engraving-Router-wholesalers.html
[04:34:16] <frysteev_> that would be cool with emc too
[04:48:22] <alex4nder> it's amazing what you can find on those sites.
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[04:50:49] <frysteev_> i like it
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[05:02:49] <Thetawaves> my coolant system http://akexperimental.com/engraver3.jpg
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[05:15:17] <Valen> Thetawaves: is going to make a big mess i;m guessing lol
[05:15:33] <Thetawaves> yes
[05:16:01] <Thetawaves> actually the flow is very small
[05:16:12] <Thetawaves> just enough to clean the general area
[05:16:53] <Thetawaves> the dark stain is from running it without drip plasic
[05:17:19] <Thetawaves> but i installed plastic to funnel the oil and it worked pretty well
[05:17:35] <Thetawaves> now i can confidently leave the machine running unsupervised :D
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[05:33:29] <mrsun> frysteev_, check out hossmachine http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wh9tzen9ZVE&context=C412a424ADvjVQa1PpcFMgf1pRyc2Rt-A9AQV1EXR6WuJUAezKLbo= befor you buy =)
[05:39:21] <Valen> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ABNOf_fmEQ&list=PL0AE03F6956629A6F&index=2&feature=plpp_video similar cooling setup
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[05:39:32] <Valen> http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL0AE03F6956629A6F
[05:39:35] <Valen> well not really
[05:39:40] <Thetawaves> mrsun, i like your little case
[05:39:43] <Valen> takes "flood" cooling to the next level
[05:40:01] <mrsun> Thetawaves, huh ?
[05:40:05] <Valen> the whole part is underwater
[05:40:57] <Thetawaves> mrsun, the bit that holds your monitor
[05:41:05] <mrsun> its not me
[05:41:06] <mrsun> ...
[05:41:15] <Thetawaves> oh lol
[05:41:16] <mrsun> it was a link for a review of the pendant he linked
[05:41:19] <Valen> sif use mach
[05:41:45] <Thetawaves> i want to build a jog button like that
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[07:12:35] <Loetmichel> moin
[07:30:30] <Loetmichel> s/moin/mornin'
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[08:19:23] <DJ9DJ> kurz-moin
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[10:21:02] <vin321> morning
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[11:32:55] <DJ9DJ> moin
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[12:20:06] <jdhnc> any mesa/7i43 users about? Is my
[12:20:19] <jdhnc> any mesa/7i43 users about? Is my 'invalid cookie' due to cabling or netmos 9815?
[12:22:54] <frysteev_> morning
[12:38:16] <awallin> I thought cookies were for web browsers only...
[12:38:34] <jdhnc> awallin: and chocolate chip.
[12:39:08] <Jymmm> and cookie monsters
[12:45:33] <frysteev_> cnc - completely nutty cookies?
[12:45:50] <jdhnc> how about a cnc cookie cutter
[12:46:28] <Jymmm> use a rotary blade
[12:47:36] <Jymmm> attach it directly to stepper motor shaft. I ust haven't figured out how to apply/adjust pressure on the blade and material to be cut yet
[12:49:24] <Jymmm> http://www.olfa.com/RotaryCuttersDetail.aspx?C=2&Id=127
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[12:51:42] <Jymmm> Here's a better picture of the blade alone http://www.olfa.com/BladesDetail.aspx?C=16&Id=105
[12:56:09] <Jymmm> I don't even know if a Z-axis motor would be necessary as much as a solenoid of some sort instead.
[13:00:39] * frysteev_ offers to do QC on the CNC cookie machine
[13:01:26] <Jymmm> frysteev_: GREAT! It's cycle powered, so get peddling!
[13:02:15] <Jymmm> frysteev_: and dont stop till you've done 40 miles uphill in a hurricane!
[13:02:56] <frysteev_> lucilly im canadian and dont believe in your inferior for of measurement of distance :P
[13:03:41] <Jymmm> frysteev_: Fine, to YT and back 40 times!
[13:04:09] <frysteev_> yt?
[13:04:23] <Jymmm> Yukon Territory
[13:05:17] <frysteev_> ahh
[13:06:30] <cradek> jdhnc: if you're seeing that error in dmesg, pastebin the whole thing?
[13:07:08] <jdhnc> It's at home, can't get to it until tonight.
[13:08:16] <jdhnc> I am pretty sure it is the 200 version, but sometimes it says the bit file is for a 200 and the card has a 400
[13:08:35] <jdhnc> then if I try the 400 version, it says the opposite.
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[13:11:36] <jdhnc> I'll also make a new ribbon cable that will plug directly in to the p-port instead of through my potentially bad db25 cable
[13:14:47] <jdhnc> http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/component/kunena/?id=6079&catid=39&func=fb_pdf
[13:15:18] <jdhnc> The top of page 5 has the same messages I get (/DONE is not low and the following firmware mismatch msg)
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[13:32:50] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: THE SOUNDS OF POWER!!!
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[13:53:24] <JustinXJS> Does anyone happen to know, or have an educated guess as to how much one of those Chinese water cooled spindles that sell on ebay weigh?
[13:53:35] <JustinXJS> http://search.ebay.com/250748327119
[13:56:31] <jdhnc> 8kg
[13:57:02] <jdhnc> make that 2kg for the spindle only
[13:57:22] <JustinXJS> Thank you!
[13:57:29] <JustinXJS> really, that seems a bit light?
[13:57:36] <JustinXJS> for the spindle only
[13:58:00] <jdhnc> it does, doesn't it. google numbers, coudl be anything.
[13:59:20] <JustinXJS> I would believe 8kg for the spindle only
[13:59:22] <jdhnc> soemone says a 4kw one weighs 8kg
[13:59:34] <jdhnc> 2.2 wouldn't be that much less
[13:59:51] <JustinXJS> Sounds great, thanks for the help
[14:01:42] <jdhnc> 2kg was the inverter
[14:02:03] <JustinXJS> Yeah, that sounds better
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[14:03:04] <cpresser> JustinXJS: ask the user Loetmichel, as far as i know he bought one
[14:03:33] <Jymmm> "Ask the loser Loetmichel" ?!
[14:04:05] <JustinXJS> Great, someone who has one! Thank you cpresser
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[14:04:58] <cpresser> i was also considering to buy one. but ill rather get a local product from a local seller
[14:05:00] Cylly is now known as Loetmichel
[14:05:15] <Loetmichel> [15:04] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: wash your brain with soap... bad thoughts ;-)
[14:05:43] <Loetmichel> JustinXJS: i have the 800W spindle (watercooled)
[14:06:02] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: ARE YOU KIDDING?! Not even sulfuric acid would clean my brain!
[14:06:13] <Loetmichel> and it weights about 1.5kg IIRC
[14:06:24] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: thought so ;-)
[14:06:30] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: Yes, I have a big brain!
[14:07:15] <Loetmichel> hmm, i shoud install the spinde witch on my CNC... it is sitting about 10 minutes with running spindle now...
[14:07:25] <Loetmichel> (program done, i wasnt there ;-)
[14:07:48] <cpresser> get a VFD :)
[14:08:50] <JustinXJS> Wow, i cant believe how light it is, thank you Loetmichel
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[14:12:51] <Loetmichel> cpresser: it HAS a vfd
[14:13:19] <Loetmichel> i am just to lazy to wire that "spindle on" relay to the vfd ;-)
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[14:22:47] <pcw__> jdhnc: the 7I43 will not work with the NetMOS/MOSChip 9815.
[14:22:49] <pcw__> Like all PCI NetMOS.MOSChip silicon, its EPP mode is broken
[14:23:15] <jdhnc> cool
[14:23:31] <jdhnc> I don't mind the $10 card not working, just the uncertainty!
[14:24:14] <jdhnc> Can you suggest a known-working pci p-port card?
[14:25:11] <jdhnc> the 9815 seems to be ok for plain p-port IO?
[14:30:19] <skunkworks> they work fine for plain i/0
[14:34:49] <jdhnc> or should I just get a 5i25 and not worry about the p-port
[14:35:50] <awallin> p-port is not a winner.... that's pretty much been known for the last 5-10 years? :)
[14:36:14] <jdhnc> even p-port based 7i43?
[14:37:23] <jdhnc> free shipping on a startech PCI1P, but won't be here until March 27
[14:37:37] <awallin> well 7i43 or jon elsons stuff make the p-port useable for LinuxCNC, but in general I would go with pci or pci-e 10 times out of 10 given the choice
[14:38:12] <jdhnc> I have two 7i43's and a couple of terminal boards for them.
[14:38:58] <jdhnc> The idea of a 5i25 + G540 sounds really clean though.
[14:39:01] <skunkworks> jdhnc: with a working epp printer port - they should work fine.
[14:40:45] <jdhnc> My plan is to buy a small Atom box when I actually finish this (for my G0704), the p-port-less computer is just something I have laying around to test stuff
[14:40:53] <skunkworks> One thing you doin't get with the printer port epp hardware (elsons/mesa) is you are limited by the servo period for i/o. With the pci stuff - you could run some i/o faster. (say for some crazy reason you wanted to run software step gen out of the mesa card for one example)
[14:42:06] <jdhnc> I don't think speed will be an issue? Max IO would be home/limit switches and a spindle encoder
[14:45:45] <pcw__> The 7I43 should run fine with th Atom parallel port
[14:45:47] <pcw__> speed wise you are limited to maybe 2 KHz update rates
[14:45:49] <pcw__> (standard is 1 KHZ which is fine for most machines)
[14:46:29] <pcw__> PCI cards are capable of ~10KHz servo update rates on fast machines
[14:47:05] <pcw__> But this is rarely needed (linear motors in torque mode for example)
[14:47:12] <jdhnc> my testbox is an old 3ghz p4 with built in video and ~50uS latency
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[14:54:44] <pcw__> I have a new non-NetMOS PCI card I will try (cant remember the chip manufacturer)
[14:55:56] <SolarNRG> How long does it usually take to dry out a baking tray full of sand in an oven?
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[14:57:28] <jdhnc> I ordered a StarTech PCI1P based on a post you made to cnczone in 2008.
[15:00:16] <pcw__> as long as its not NetMOS based it should be OK
[15:00:47] <jdhnc> SUN1888 in theory
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[15:07:51] <pcw__> Yeah that should work. The new card I have is something else (and a currently fairly common card) so I will test it sometime this week
[15:14:29] <A2Sheds> beside heavily modifying Linuxcnc for process machine controls, what do other here use? Process machines that combine motors with temp controls, encoders etc
[15:16:07] <A2Sheds> machines that won't use any g-code, but have servos, temp and pressure sensors etc
[15:19:17] <skunkworks> hal and classic ladder?
[15:19:36] <skunkworks> here at work they mostly use plc's
[15:20:06] <jdhnc> PLC's and indexers/controllers
[15:20:10] <skunkworks> once you use linuxcnc for a project - everthing starts to look like a linuxcnc solution...
[15:20:16] <A2Sheds> yeah, I've been using hal
[15:20:47] <A2Sheds> then spend time on creating a nice looking gui
[15:22:10] <jdhnc> I like having everything that matters in a PLC or motor controller and a non-realtime UI on a computer of some sort that interfaces with the machine, people, plant databases.
[15:23:27] <A2Sheds> I can't even look at a PLC anymore :)
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[15:26:18] <jdhnc> I have a GE/Fanuc 90/30 sitting here. Not my favorite, but I've got 30? of them out there and never had a failure.
[15:27:38] <A2Sheds> reliable, but I worked with them and ladder so much before, that I feel like I'm working with stone tools
[15:29:38] <skunkworks> heh
[15:30:25] <A2Sheds> jdhnc: does Fanuc have a way to control or program them over a network using any GPL tools?
[15:30:57] <mazafaka> used d=16 mm end mill with three cutting edges for stainless steel, 140 RPM, 90 mm/min, about 6 and 3 mm cutting depth. Is it OK?
[15:33:03] * skunkworks just cut a 1/8 oring slot with the k&t... Held my breath the whole time at 1ipm (about 12 inches 1/8 deep)
[15:33:15] <skunkworks> turned out perfectly...
[15:33:27] <cradek> hah, slow spindles are a pain sometimes
[15:33:32] <skunkworks> yes
[15:33:39] <skunkworks> 2100rpm
[15:34:18] <cradek> yikes
[15:34:30] <skunkworks> I didn't want to see if any of our router spindles are centered to the spindle. (multi tool operation..)_
[15:34:47] <cradek> can't you use an exercise bicycle made out of coconuts to speed it up?
[15:35:02] <skunkworks> heh - and bamboo?
[15:35:07] <cradek> yes, and an old radio
[15:35:31] <skunkworks> gosh I hated that show.. You knew they would never get off the island...
[15:35:41] <cradek> yeah, it was awful
[15:36:40] <skunkworks> it cut a nice slot though... the cutter was .125 and it cut about .127.. not bad
[15:37:39] <cradek> I didn't find the picture (showing nasty 1/8" slots) I was looking for, but I did find one that reminds me how awesome everything is: http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/emc/origin-preview.png
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[15:38:45] <skunkworks> cradek: yes - I remember you working on that at the ann arbor fest.. awesome!
[15:39:07] <cradek> yes and for a year afterward! haha
[15:39:11] <skunkworks> heh
[15:39:35] <skunkworks> Does it show the g55/g92 lines now?
[15:39:54] <skunkworks> I don't remember seeing them in 2.5 anyway..
[15:44:32] <skunkworks> Well - look at that. Nice work cradek!
[15:45:15] <jdhnc> A2Sheds: no programming tools. You can do ethernet communication though.
[15:47:46] <jdhnc> considering the new programming package costs $1k-2k, there is not a lot of incentive for them to make anything 'free'.
[15:56:53] <A2Sheds> yes, the usual
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[16:25:25] <jdhnc> geez... this card I just ordered really has a NETMOS NM9805CV
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[16:28:08] <cradek> wow, there are three pcws
[16:28:36] <jdhnc> you can't have enough pcws
[16:28:48] <cradek> pcw__: you oughta find a pci parport card that works right, and stock it. seems like the cost of doing so would be small.
[16:29:13] <cradek> I bet people would pay a premium for one they know will work right. I sure would in that situation.
[16:30:05] <jdhnc> or get an online store and sell 5i25's with a few clicks!
[16:30:23] <archivist> parallel ports are getting rare
[16:30:51] <jdhnc> the non-netmos version of the card costs $35, $8 shipping. Almost half the cost of a 5i25
[16:31:32] <cradek> I'd probably have a 5i25 if I could order it without a phonecall. I'm weird.
[16:32:04] <jdhnc> no you aren't. I would too.
[16:32:14] <cradek> wtf is wrong with us?
[16:32:43] <jdhnc> mild aspergers?
[16:37:21] * cradek sighs
[16:37:48] <syyl> hehe
[16:37:53] <syyl> made a good catch today
[16:37:55] <syyl> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/24396704/IMG_0218.jpg
[16:38:18] <jdhnc> it's lovely. What is it?
[16:38:26] <cradek> a level
[16:38:29] <syyl> a level :D
[16:38:48] <cradek> last checked in 1978 :-)
[16:39:08] <syyl> 0,04mm/m each division on the bubble :D
[16:39:20] <cradek> nice find
[16:39:30] <syyl> the measuring surfaces are like new
[16:39:48] <syyl> not the slightest ding or scratch
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[16:40:37] <syyl> and that all for 35eur
[16:40:38] <syyl> :)
[16:40:50] <cradek> wow
[16:45:30] <jv4779> I am having an issue with a new EMC setup which is driving a laser cutter with XYZW axis, the table is W and not moved when a cut is happening. The problem happens when just doing a G2 in XY plane EMC moves the U which doesn't exist and W axis and I can't figure out why.
[16:46:19] <jv4779> I have verified that all the electrical conections are correct and I can jog all axis correctly. also the DRO and hal scope shows that W axis is being changed
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[16:47:29] <cradek> jv4779: what version of emc?
[16:48:27] <cradek> jv4779: help/about
[16:48:51] <jv4779> 2.4.6, but I seem to recall that 2.4.7 didn't update that string
[16:49:00] <jv4779> I am current from apt-get
[16:49:23] <cradek> ah ok
[16:49:37] <cradek> what kins are you using?
[16:55:19] <jv4779> trivkins
[16:55:44] <jv4779> is there some internal link between XYZ and UVW ?
[16:56:20] <jv4779> originally the table was on U axis, but it seemed better suited to W since it was parallel with Z. problem happens both both.
[16:57:04] <jv4779> and the issue doesn't happen on all G2 but it is consistant and it also depends on how far G54 is from the mahine origin
[16:57:47] <cradek> would you make your ini and hal files available please?
[16:57:53] <jv4779> The gcode is the default EMC2.4/AXIS file
[16:58:02] <jv4779> best way to do that ?
[16:58:49] <cradek> tar up the whole directory and put it online however you can
[16:59:06] <cradek> or if you can't do that, use pastebin.com
[17:03:11] <jdhnc> anyone have a guess about how suitable this would be: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856119037
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[17:05:24] <pcw__> The Intel 525s are a known quantity not so sure about Foxconn
[17:05:24] <jv4779> hal=http://pastebin.com/ecp8XtRq
[17:05:34] <cradek> I bought a foxconn case/ps/mb and had to start replacing worn-out parts in about 2 months
[17:05:50] <cradek> (howling fan in the power supply)
[17:06:00] <jv4779> ini=http://pastebin.com/rb5F0EB5
[17:06:01] <cradek> the whole case is cheap and fragile
[17:06:13] <cradek> (obviously as you can guess from the silly low price)
[17:06:47] <jdhnc> yep
[17:07:14] <jdhnc> having to buy a p-port card is just annoying
[17:07:26] <pcw__> We have a low profile case that seems OK but it was separate and more expensive
[17:07:48] <pcw__> the foxconn doesnt have a PP?
[17:08:28] <jdhnc> it does. I can either buy a card for $40ish shipped or a computer and I want to end up with a d525 type computer anyway
[17:08:28] <mrsun> jv4779, try and make spaces before urls
[17:08:41] <mrsun> some url thingies in irc clients does not catch it when you write it together =)
[17:08:46] <cradek> jv4779: interesting, a raster laser setup
[17:09:00] <jv4779> 99% of this isn't my original work
[17:09:14] <pcw__> I would stick with Intel as the Foxconn is a PIAP
[17:09:55] <jv4779> I have not even gotten to seeing how the raster part works. the axis are not sane on the vector cutting
[17:10:13] <cradek> jv4779: where are you seeing that U is affected? do you see changes on axis.6 hal pins?
[17:10:50] <cradek> or do you get an error like following error?
[17:12:09] <jv4779> The original config has U on axis.6 and I would see the physical machine move, dro update, hal scopoe on axis.6.join-pos-command change. I switch taht axis to axis.8 and now it shows as the table moving very briefly and a following error on join 6
[17:12:26] <cradek> you have two threads, laser-thread and base-thread, at the same rate. I don't know if this is a problem but it sure is weird
[17:12:42] <cradek> jv4779: just to be clear, you see this happen when you do an arc in the G17 plane?
[17:14:01] <cradek> (I will either have to construct a similar-enough sim config or wait until I am at a machine with realtime and parport to run yours)
[17:14:01] <jv4779> not all arcs. when running the EMC2.4/AXIS example gcode, it makes it around the bottom and how the left side of the E, then half way around the arc on the top left corner of the E the W axis goes crazy and gives a joint 6 following error
[17:14:55] <jv4779> I am mostly looking for a next place to look for the problem. maybe some TRAJ debug or some log I am not aware of
[17:15:49] <cradek> can you try MDIing G61 and then run the splash code again, and see if it happens again please
[17:17:35] <cradek> you can print the canon calls to the terminal by turning on TASK ISSUE debugging
[17:17:38] <jv4779> problem didn't appear with G61, but does with G64 P0.001
[17:17:53] <cradek> ok that's extremely important information
[17:18:07] <cradek> had you always set G64 Px when you saw the problem?
[17:18:15] <jv4779> I don't usually use G61, just G64 with a small value
[17:18:34] <cradek> the default is G64 without P. do you see the problem if you use G64 without P?
[17:20:33] <jv4779> G64 no issue, G64 P0.001 almost instant following error on joint 6, G64 P0.01 a little fartner then follow error on joint 6
[17:20:53] <jv4779> I don;t see why joint 6 is even in the picture, there is no axis defined for that
[17:21:06] <cradek> this narrows it down immensely, and I'm pretty certain it's a bug and not a config problem
[17:21:24] <cradek> I will try to squash it after lunch, please hang around
[17:21:42] <cradek> maybe we will see another 2.4 release :-/
[17:22:17] <jv4779> I can run this over and over. The machine is connected but the steppers are not powered so no worry about machine crash
[17:22:32] <cradek> it's great that you get the problem reliably
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[17:24:07] <jv4779> this config also uses a custom hal component https://github.com/bjj/2x_laser/blob/master/laserfreq.comp that could be adding to the mix
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[17:25:27] <jv4779> hal configuration gui doesnt' show anything in axis.6 connected
[17:30:09] <cradek> when you issue your G64P.001 which causes the problem quickly, are you in G20 or G21?
[17:31:49] <jv4779> active gcodes on mdi screen show G20, gcode starts with a g20, machine is defined in metric
[17:32:44] <cradek> if you issue g64p.001 before the first run, I think you're getting tolerance .001mm. if after running and switching to g20, you'd get .001in. I want to know for sure which one lets you see the problem
[17:33:51] <cradek> I'm off to lunch, I'll read back
[17:34:07] <jv4779> in mdi I set "g20 g64 p0.001", fast following error
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[17:50:06] <jdhnc> is this better than the Foxconn: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0041RSC94
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[17:55:37] <skunkworks> jdhnc: I think quyite a few people use them...
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[17:56:22] <skunkworks> jdhnc: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Latency-Test
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[17:57:09] <IchGuckLive> Hi all B9
[17:59:22] <jdhnc> skunkworks: I assume that is relatively good, and certainly fine for a 7i43?
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[18:35:07] <ssi> jdhnc: should be!
[18:37:30] <IchGuckLive> O.O
[18:37:41] <ssi> OHAI
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[18:51:44] <IchGuckLive> jthornton: perfect wether around you ?
[18:52:07] <jthornton> a bit hot for this time of the year actually
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[18:53:57] * jthornton starts calling satellite providers to see who screws you the least
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[19:12:25] <IchGuckLive> do the ppeople in the usa have to pay for standard satelite TV downlink ?
[19:13:11] <mrsun> yeey, i had forgotten i had linear bearings and 30mm axles for them that i could use for my Z on new machine =)
[19:13:19] <mrsun> should be stable enough :P
[19:13:55] <IchGuckLive> im off By GN8
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[19:29:01] <raynerd> guys, if you were cutting a letter from a 12mm mdf sheet, what sort of cutter would you select?
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[19:29:59] <jv4779> you can use standard carbide router bits
[19:30:00] <cradek> a wood router bit?
[19:30:16] <archivist> a v bit possibly
[19:30:22] <cradek> you'll need a lot of spindle speed
[19:30:30] <archivist> choices
[19:30:52] <raynerd> I just tried a 6mm end mill and it stalled the motor with only 1mm cut and all hell broke loose
[19:31:17] <cradek> is your spindle terrible?
[19:31:34] <jv4779> you have to use carbide on MDF because the glue will eat HSS
[19:31:39] <JT-Shop> I'd use a router bit
[19:32:00] <archivist> end mills wont clear the wood from the flutes too
[19:32:42] <raynerd> cradek - I made my spindle: http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=6879.0
[19:36:09] <raynerd> think maybe my spindle isnt up to it?
[19:37:07] <jv4779> if you are plunging, possibly do a ramp entry
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[19:38:23] <raynerd> I was simply trying to cut an "E" out of mdf, started motom left zero point and then it stalled top right both times...
[19:39:21] <JT-Shop> adjust your speed and depth of cut to what your spindle can handle
[19:40:05] <raynerd> bearing in mind I`m a noob at all this, is 1mm an unreasonable ask?
[19:40:13] <raynerd> 1mm plunge each cut that is
[19:40:24] <jv4779> 1mm depth of cut should be nothing in wood
[19:40:52] <jv4779> I have done 1/2" at 60 IPM in MDF with 3HP
[19:41:10] <jv4779> which is also nothing, 60 is as fast as my machine will go
[19:41:22] <cradek> jv4779: I can't seem to reproduce your problem in sim
[19:41:47] <raynerd> humm..cutter or spindle then.
[19:41:53] <raynerd> I expect the cutter...
[19:42:50] <jv4779> crakek: I only see the problem when my touch-off was in the middle of the machine area. when it was near origin there was no issue.
[19:43:08] <cradek> weird, ok
[19:43:15] <JT-Shop> raynerd: it just depends on the cutter and the spindle as to what is unreasonable...
[19:43:16] <mrsun> raynerd, one of those chinese RC motors? :)
[19:43:16] <jv4779> I zipped up the whole install http://dl.dropbox.com/u/131458/2x_laser/2x_laser.zip
[19:44:29] <jv4779> I donn't know how to get the current offset for my G54
[19:45:07] <cradek> in 2.5 it's on the DRO tab :-/
[19:45:44] <cradek> hm, I'm still not seeing it with my origin set far away
[19:46:11] <jv4779> running the EMC example gcode ?
[19:46:17] <cradek> yes
[19:46:35] <cradek> seeing nothing on axis.6, axis.8
[19:46:44] <cradek> it might not happen in sim.
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[20:32:46] <raynerd> guys, you know earlier I was asking about cutting mdf/wood
[20:33:23] <raynerd> you mentioned a router bit... http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3mm-Dia-Dual-Flute-Straight-Shank-End-Mill-Router-Bit-/270923703712?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item3f144fa5a0
[20:33:34] <raynerd> something like that OK, or how many flutes am I looking for?
[20:34:48] <cpresser> i would go for one flute, since you have large chips that need space
[20:34:51] <cradek> jv4779: I've asked for review of the patch that fixes your bug in #linuxcnc-devel
[20:36:07] <jv4779> this is opensouce sofware at work, thank you
[20:36:32] <cradek> thanks for your skills making it possible for me to track it down so easily
[20:36:59] <raynerd> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3mm-x-12mm-FLUTE-CARBIDE-SINGLE-FLUTED-CNC-ROUTER-MILL-CUTTER-GBR-NEW-AND-BOXED-/270933510279?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item3f14e54887 this better....expensive as hell!!
[20:37:21] <archivist> some old school tool pr0n http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/blog5/email32112B.html
[20:38:00] <jv4779> raynerd: I would just get a router bit from any local hardware store assuming you can deal with the standard shank sizes they will be (1/4 or 1/2 in usa)
[20:38:22] <raynerd> yes, I have a er16 chuck so can hold either
[20:38:48] <raynerd> hummm, actually, I`ve not even checked what my collet set goes up to..it certainly has 6mm, does it have 12 :P
[20:38:51] <jv4779> you have to be more careful with standard router bits because most are not center cutting
[20:39:19] <archivist> slot drill is the term
[20:39:45] <jv4779> program for ramp entry and it isn't a problem
[20:45:16] <jv4779> my searching says er16 maxes at 10mm
[20:45:29] <ssi> yeah I believe that's correct
[20:47:29] <jv4779> question on how G64 with P works. if I do G20 G64 P0.001 and then run a G21 program will the P be 0.001 or 0.001 converted to mm ?
[20:48:51] <cradek> it will still be .001 inches, it will not change to .001 mm
[20:49:51] <jv4779> that is great. I was afraid that if it was set to P0.01 in mm, then it would be 0.01 in in G20 mode
[20:50:23] <jv4779> does G64 depend on the G20/G21 mode or based on machine units ?
[20:50:42] <cradek> all gcode is interpreted in gcode units
[20:50:55] <cradek> jv4779: your bug is now fixed in git v2.4_branch and v2.5_branch
[20:51:52] <jv4779> is there a way to do a "touch-off" to set current position to g53=0 ?
[20:52:07] <jv4779> unhome/home maybe
[20:52:29] <cradek> yes homing is the only thing that establishes the unoffset (g53) origin
[21:07:34] <cradek> jv4779: if you don't want to wait for 2.4.8 release, you can get updated 2.4 (or 2.5 or master) packages from http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org
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[21:35:36] <DJ9DJ> gn8
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[21:46:43] <ssi> SO MUCH WIRING D:
[21:48:53] <archivist> just use red colour wire..then you cannot be wrong because its the red wire
[21:54:33] <ssi> :D
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[22:04:26] <SolarNRG> I am very excited about getting my microwavable aluminium smelting crucible tomorrow. I have pre-baked the sand and the clay mold today in preparation for its arrival. Please have a look and tell me if you think pouring molten ally into the square groove will work,, thanks: http://i.imgur.com/fyY3J.jpg
[22:09:27] <raynerd> anyone tell me what "touch off" means on emc2?
[22:09:40] <raynerd> dont really understand its function
[22:09:53] <rob_h> to set a work office, or tool offset
[22:10:23] <rob_h> *offset
[22:11:40] <raynerd> humm ok
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[22:18:00] <GoSebGo> raynerd: the "Important User Concepts" and "Coordinate Systems" sections of the User Manual try to explain touch-off
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[22:45:57] <ssi> I'm not sure the screwless terminals are working out so hot for me :/
[22:46:16] <jdhnc> I hate screwless terminals
[22:46:43] <ssi> what do you suggest for 22-24awg wire
[22:46:51] <ssi> I have like 75 terminations to make
[22:46:59] <jdhnc> weidmuller ferrules and screw terminals
[22:47:10] <jdhnc> ferrules for screwless also
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[22:47:29] <ssi> hrm that's an idea
[22:48:02] <jdhnc> and splurge on the crimpers.
[22:48:28] <ssi> I have a 59250 crimper
[22:48:48] <ssi> http://www.newark.com/jsp/search/productdetail.jsp?SKU=50F546&CMP=AFC-GB100000001
[22:48:51] <ssi> is that splurgy enough :)
[22:49:43] <jdhnc> looks pricey, I'd rather have the weidmuller one.
[22:49:59] <jdhnc> that actully looks rather awkward
[22:50:17] <ssi> I dunno how the amp tool will work on those ferrules, but it's the absolute best crimper on earth for ring/spade/faston terminals
[22:50:38] <jdhnc> wrong kind of crimp, but if it has dies for them, should be fine.
[22:50:43] <Jymmm> Video of the latest scam, even if it's fake it's still something ppl should be aware of... http://v5.tinypic.com/player.swf?file=fnwzu0
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[22:56:47] <jdhnc> are they screwless that you use a screwdriver to press in, or with the hideous little plastic key thing?
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[22:57:14] <ssi> they're these:
[22:57:15] <ssi> http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Terminal_Blocks/Screwless_DIN-Rail_Terminal_Blocks/Single-level_Terminal_Blocks_-a-_Accessories/DN-Q12
[22:57:28] <ssi> sorry these rather http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Terminal_Blocks/Screwless_DIN-Rail_Terminal_Blocks/Single-level_Terminal_Blocks_-a-_Accessories/DN-Q12-A
[22:57:31] <ssi> same basic thing
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[22:59:47] <jdhnc> can't beat the price
[22:59:55] <jdhnc> do they break bare wires?
[23:00:06] <ssi> break them? no
[23:00:14] <ssi> the problem I'm having is there's just not a lot of holding tension
[23:00:19] <ssi> especially the tiny wire I'm dealing with
[23:00:25] <ssi> I think what I'm working with might actually be 24awg
[23:00:33] <ssi> but it's at most 22
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[23:00:57] <jdhnc> weidmuller orange ferules!
[23:01:14] <ssi> also wishing I'd gotten some jumpers
[23:01:36] <jdhnc> terminal block jumpers?
[23:01:52] <ssi> yea
[23:01:59] <ssi> they make jumpers to connect adjacent blocks togehter
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[23:02:36] <jdhnc> I like the weidmuller 3-level ones. Jumper one row +, one row ground, top row for signal
[23:02:44] <raynerd> Woooper! I`ve just done the first thing I`m quite impressed by...!! :-D
[23:02:57] <ssi> jdhnc: that'd be pretty nice
[23:03:08] <ssi> problem is I'm working with existing wiring
[23:03:14] <ssi> and it's old and stiff and cut to length already
[23:03:23] <ssi> so in some cases I'm working with stuff that's on the short side
[23:03:29] <jdhnc> butt-splices!
[23:03:38] <ssi> wanted to get some raychem solder sleeves
[23:03:45] <ssi> but homo depot doesn't have any of the small ones
[23:04:02] <ssi> http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Wiring_Solutions/Wire_End_Connectors/Insulated_Ferrules/Standard_Color_Single_Wire/BM-00501
[23:04:16] <ssi> but it'll cost me $70 to get a reasonable crimper for them
[23:04:44] <jdhnc> mine was $230?
[23:05:02] <jdhnc> cheap ferrules
[23:06:37] <ssi> eh fuck i
[23:06:44] <ssi> I'll just keep dealing with it the hard way
[23:07:12] <raynerd> I totally understand this is the emc2 irc, but based on your best impartial view, what is the main difference, benefit of emc2 over mach3 if you couldn`t factor in that emc2 is free.
[23:07:23] <ssi> raynerd: mach isn't realtime
[23:07:46] <raynerd> ok...I hear that a lot when i read around the subject...but does that matter?
[23:07:47] <ssi> raynerd: mach can't do decent spindle-synchronized motion (ie can't thread on a lathe or rigid tap or thread mill)
[23:07:54] <jdhnc> updates
[23:07:59] <jdhnc> no windows
[23:08:07] <jdhnc> closed loop
[23:08:08] <raynerd> ok..
[23:08:14] <ssi> emc is much more extensible
[23:08:37] <ssi> if your machine doesn't fit into mach's little bubble of what they expect you to run, it's not gonna work out well
[23:08:39] <raynerd> also, in terms of the features of the software...how do they compare.
[23:08:56] <jdhnc> afaict, you are not Mach's target customer, they get real money from OEM's
[23:09:13] <ssi> haha I'd be pissed if I bought a commercial machine and it came with mach as a controller
[23:09:51] <JT-Shop> LOL
[23:09:59] <raynerd> Can I be honest, I`m a noob and you chaps on here have been giving me advice over the last month to build up my machine and a guy I visted a few days back was running Mach3 and it seemed to have a some nice features...
[23:10:13] <ssi> raynerd: what features did you like
[23:10:24] <jdhnc> mach is pretty, has pretty, simple wizards
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[23:12:41] <raynerd> he showed me a graph that mach drew to determine spindle rates or something... seemed interesting at least. He also showed me his table z axis height zero sensor, which mach came down to level and some pretty buttons flashed when it was zerod... just addon stuff. He was also controlling the manual control of the table with a hand game console remote..what ever you call them...that looked
[23:12:42] <raynerd> cool. But I`m not criticising. EMC is free and it has done me very very well so far. I was just curious as it is the first time I`ve seen Mach and it seemed to have lots more "options" and features I suppose. But then I`ve not delved into EMC properly
[23:13:06] <jdhnc> d/l and try it.
[23:13:16] <ssi> emc has a steeper learning curve
[23:13:23] <ssi> but it's capable of all that and more
[23:13:33] <ssi> in fact, you can connect a lot more and fancier external hardware to emc than to mach
[23:13:47] <raynerd> really?
[23:13:52] <ssi> sure
[23:13:55] <ssi> just look at all the mesa stuff
[23:14:02] <ssi> it's amazing what all emc supports through the hardware abstraction
[23:14:16] <ssi> mach pretty much boxes you into parallel port driven stepper controllers
[23:14:16] <raynerd> mesa... ok will google!
[23:14:21] <ssi> and mach has to do all the stepgen work
[23:14:31] <ssi> that plus non-realtime is kind of a recipe for disaster
[23:14:59] <JT-Shop> mack screens give me a headache
[23:15:16] <raynerd> I must admit, I really really liked his height sensor..
[23:15:23] <ssi> raynerd: so you know, one of my machines still runs mach, so I've got some experience with it
[23:15:31] <jdhnc> height sensor?
[23:15:41] <jdhnc> something that is mach specific?
[23:15:44] <raynerd> the z spindle came down slowly until it just touched it and then lifted a fraction to set the spindle heigh
[23:16:03] <ssi> raynerd: you can do that in emc as well, and even do the fancy flashy gui stuff if you're motivated
[23:16:06] <raynerd> no no...it was hardware! Mach was controlling it but no, it was just hardware
[23:16:12] <JT-Shop> no, my plasma does it all the time
[23:16:15] <jdhnc> that's just a probe input
[23:16:55] <raynerd> the thing is ssi...when you say you can do flashy gui stuff... do you mean if the user, i.e me, coded it?
[23:17:12] <ssi> yeah, but it's pretty simple
[23:17:15] <ssi> and there's stuff out there already
[23:17:27] <ssi> it's not coding so much as just configuration
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[23:18:04] <raynerd> I do this as a hobby and i just don`t have the skills or time to learn programming as well as try and do the little bit of engineering I already do...but maybe i need to google around a bit to find stuff already out there
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[23:19:16] <ssi> raynerd: how did he do his Z probe? Did he buy someone's commercial product that came with mach screens, or did he write his own?
[23:19:24] <ssi> cause I don't believe mach does that out of the box
[23:19:47] <raynerd> I believe he downloaded a plugin..forgot the name he used, wasn`t pluging or widget but something similar.
[23:20:10] <raynerd> you are right, he did say he had to download something. He made his own probe, the hardware side of it
[23:20:36] <SWPadnos> brain
[23:21:10] <SWPadnos> (that's what Mach "add-on modules" are called, I think)
[23:21:42] <ssi> if you're not willing to put in the time to learn a bit about the system, you may be better off running mach
[23:21:55] <ssi> mach is definitely more user friendly to newbs
[23:22:05] <SWPadnos> I wouldn't go that far :)
[23:22:13] <SWPadnos> it depends on what you want to do
[23:22:24] <ssi> well yeah
[23:22:32] <ssi> if you want to run a software stepper system off your parallel port
[23:22:36] <ssi> and you're afraid of text files
[23:22:39] <ssi> then mach is for you :)
[23:22:42] <SWPadnos> if there's a vendor or user who has set up exactly what you want, and they sell/share their setup, then it's very easy
[23:22:51] <SWPadnos> again, I wouldn't go that far :)
[23:22:58] <raynerd> OK.. maybe I`ll come to install it at some point but I`m happy keep bashing away with emc, I just wanted your thoughts
[23:23:14] <SWPadnos> stepconf can set up a linuxcnc config for anything that Mach could do via parport
[23:23:29] <ssi> sure it can
[23:23:37] <ssi> but this isn't about what emc can do
[23:23:42] <ssi> this is about OOH LOOK SHINY WINDOWS
[23:23:52] <SWPadnos> if you want something more complex than a parport, like feedback, then you're outside the realm of what Mach is capable of, and you need to learn how to configure something
[23:24:17] <JT-Shop> ^^ what SWP said
[23:24:28] <mikegg> I think servo tuning is a big barrier to entry
[23:24:30] <raynerd> I`m not clear what you mean SWPadnos... what is parport (parallel port I presume) but don`t get the context of it comparing emc and mach. Do they both no use the parallel prot?
[23:24:32] <raynerd> port
[23:24:40] <ssi> mikegg: omg you're alive
[23:24:43] <SWPadnos> yes, parport == parallel port
[23:24:47] <mikegg> hah, hey man
[23:25:20] <ssi> raynerd: both can use the parport
[23:25:22] <SWPadnos> Mach can only use a parallel port by default. you need to install special drivers if you want to use any of the add-on hardware they support
[23:25:24] <mikegg> yeah, I tore my z-axis down to install some linear bearings. hows the hardinge coming along?
[23:25:24] <ssi> raynerd: mach can't NOT use the parport
[23:25:36] <ssi> mikegg: wiring hell
[23:25:42] <SWPadnos> linuxcnc can use a parallel port, and can also use several other kinds of hardware interface
[23:25:43] <ssi> mikegg: but other than that, I'm pretty much there :)
[23:25:50] <mikegg> cool!
[23:25:56] <jdhnc> can't mach use those USB step thins?
[23:26:02] <mikegg> i should come out there and check it out sometime
[23:26:06] <SWPadnos> and can handle real servos, including feedback
[23:26:09] <raynerd> OK, I didn`t know that
[23:26:14] <ssi> mikegg: you should come out here and help me wire it! hahahahahah
[23:26:23] <SWPadnos> jdhnc, yes, the SmoothStepper seems to be the most popular USB device of the day
[23:26:30] <mikegg> you might regret that :)
[23:26:36] <raynerd> Surely Mach interfaces via parallel port so why are you saying it doesn`t use it?
[23:26:42] <ssi> at this point, anything's an improvement :(
[23:26:49] <jdhnc> that's not what he said
[23:26:57] <ssi> raynerd: sorry that wasn't an easily parsable statement
[23:26:57] <SWPadnos> however, you still don't get real feedback, and I have heard of problems with threading (which may have been fixed by now)
[23:26:58] <jdhnc> but, it was worded awkwardly
[23:27:20] <SWPadnos> ssi said that Mach can't not use the parallel port (ie, it must)
[23:27:24] <ssi> raynerd: point is, emc is capable of using hardware that can allow you to offload the chore of actually running the hardware to specialized hardware (like mesa gear)
[23:27:26] <SWPadnos> but that's not quite correct either
[23:27:33] <SWPadnos> bbiab
[23:27:34] <ssi> raynerd: mach can't do that, and that's really its biggest limitation
[23:28:00] <ssi> (and yeah, smoothsteppers exist, but they kinda don't count :P)
[23:28:05] <raynerd> I think I need to look up what mesa gear is...!!
[23:28:11] <ssi> yeah, that'd be a good start
[23:28:17] <ssi> mesanet.com
[23:28:35] <ssi> it probably won't make a lot of sense right off the bat
[23:28:47] <ssi> because they make a lot of stuff and it's not specifically machine control stuff
[23:29:08] <ssi> it's more like "general purpose doing awesome things hardware"
[23:29:24] <ssi> fortunately, machine control is among the awesome things that you can do with it
[23:29:24] <JT-Shop> yea, you can buy mack, buy the screen you like, buy the smoothstepper... and well you still have a winblows app that is not real time...
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[23:29:52] <ssi> mikegg: i have my resolvers resolving
[23:30:16] <JT-Shop> raynerd: just cruse the forum in the driver boards section
[23:30:59] <raynerd> OK, so immidiately I see messa stuff is actual hardware and I`m just playing devils advocate here because I`ve loved using emc so far! but, I`m a hobby engineer..my little aluminium mill/router is 12"x12" bed/travel! Am I ever really going to get a benefit from mesa gear??
[23:31:32] <MattyMatt2> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bridgeport-S1-CNC-Milling-Machine-/190652159278
[23:31:53] <ssi> raynerd: absolutely
[23:31:56] <JT-Shop> raynerd: if your not in a hurry you can do it all with the parallel port if you have a decent latency
[23:32:33] * JT-Shop goes to do some rigid tapping on the lathe with E.M.C. :)
[23:33:01] <raynerd> lol...I`m confused!! "...you can do it all with the parallel port"... what is the alternative/?? I thought all cnc was driven via the parallel port
[23:33:10] <ssi> nope
[23:33:20] <ssi> the lathe I'm working on now has a mesa 5i23 card
[23:33:23] <ssi> that's a PCI card
[23:33:29] <ssi> it gives me 72 io pins
[23:33:30] <djdelorie> raynerd: the parallel port has a limit on how fast you can toggle the pins. The mesa stuff is high-speed parallel-ish
[23:33:42] <raynerd> ahhh!
[23:33:45] <raynerd> ahh ahh ahhh!
[23:33:47] <Thetawaves> i am DISGUSTED
[23:33:50] <djdelorie> you're still toggling the pins, but you can toggle them much faster and there's more of them.
[23:33:55] <Thetawaves> that bridge port is DISGUSTINGLY cheap
[23:33:59] <ssi> 24 of those are connected to a daughtecard that handles reading resolvers (A fancy kind of position feedback device) and runs my servos
[23:34:11] <raynerd> I see. So your not only expanding the connections but also the speed.
[23:34:14] * Thetawaves continues to curse under breath
[23:34:16] <ssi> the other 48 will be connected to all the relays that run the machine and the limit switches and such
[23:34:22] <ssi> raynerd: yeah exactly
[23:34:26] <raynerd> by moving off the parallely port.
[23:34:36] <ssi> raynerd: with parport stepping, your computer has to run a very fast tight loop to generate the step pulses
[23:34:55] <ssi> raynerd: the mesa cards actually have programmable chips that can run software inside them
[23:35:00] <ssi> raynerd: and they do the stepper generation for you
[23:35:08] <Thetawaves> whats cheaper, building an intel atom box or not using parport?
[23:35:13] <Thetawaves> probably building intel atom box
[23:35:16] <ssi> raynerd: and since that's a dedicated processor doing that work, it's guarateed to have the right timing
[23:35:31] <raynerd> yes, I do understand now.
[23:35:39] <ssi> raynerd: and it frees your computer up to run at a more leisurely pace, as it only has to run what we call the "servo thread", which just sends position information
[23:35:45] <djdelorie> ssi: so why can't we use usb to offload that timing to a dedicated processor?
[23:35:52] <ssi> djdelorie: USB isn't realtime
[23:36:07] <djdelorie> it doesn't have to be, if the processors on the other side are doing all the timing
[23:36:08] <Thetawaves> usb can have huge jitter
[23:36:12] <raynerd> i`m still not sure I would personally benefit as I`m sure the limitations of my machine would be greater than the benefits of the additional hardware but it make much more sense now.
[23:36:16] <Thetawaves> as it is a cpu bound com protocol
[23:36:25] <Thetawaves> there is no DMA in the usb stack
[23:36:26] <ssi> raynerd: it's all about having the OPTION
[23:36:37] <ssi> raynerd: mach is pretty but you'll never move beyond software stepgen
[23:36:48] <ssi> raynerd: you'll never be able to do closed-loop position control
[23:37:02] <raynerd> that sounds
[23:37:11] <raynerd> interesting, what is that?
[23:37:24] <ssi> it's where the machine has a way of measuring where the axes actually are
[23:37:28] <Thetawaves> servo + encoder
[23:37:29] <ssi> encoders, glass scales, whatever
[23:37:31] <djdelorie> it just seems like... I have three 80 MHz processors running the servos, they can talk high speed CAN to each other, yet I have to control them with a measly parallel port...
[23:37:33] <raynerd> ahhh!!!!
[23:37:33] <Thetawaves> or stepper + encoder
[23:37:37] <ssi> and report it back to the computer so it can make sure it is where it thinks it is
[23:37:48] <raynerd> this is what my farther in law uses on his digital printers for fabric.
[23:37:49] <Thetawaves> the ideal setup is servo + brakes + encoder
[23:37:58] <Thetawaves> but obviously that can get spendy
[23:38:33] <djdelorie> Thetawaves: that's what my system uses, BLDC servos, encoder, and dynamic braking. There's just no feedback to the PC
[23:38:44] <Thetawaves> dynamic breaking?
[23:38:50] <Thetawaves> BLDC has holding torque?
[23:38:56] <ssi> they do if you short phases together
[23:38:58] <djdelorie> applies negative torque when the rpm is higher than desired
[23:39:26] <Thetawaves> that is just braking right, not an active clamp to hold the axis still
[23:39:31] <raynerd> just curious then... with usb not being an option, is the raspberry pi not likely to provide any cnc opportunities for even a v basic cnc system
[23:39:36] <djdelorie> BLDC does not have the same type of holding torque as a stepper. You have to actively hold it still
[23:39:47] <Thetawaves> yeah thats no good
[23:39:50] <djdelorie> raspPi has plain GPIO that should work just fine
[23:40:09] <Thetawaves> 'dynamic break' provides little or no holding torque
[23:40:15] <raynerd> cool.
[23:40:25] <Thetawaves> djdelorie, good luck getting sub ms interrupt jitter
[23:40:25] <djdelorie> except I can "hold it still" with 100 in-oz continuous, or 300 in-oz intermittent
[23:40:37] <raynerd> Is anyone working on linuccnc for it that we know of?
[23:40:51] <djdelorie> I'm still waiting for mine to show up - ETA July 30th :-(
[23:41:00] <MattyMatt2> djdelorie there is a driver to use an arduino but it's only intended to be sensors etc, not a motion controller
[23:41:07] <Thetawaves> djdelorie, that'll float between ticks of your encoder, no?
[23:41:27] <Thetawaves> the reprap community has gcode on an arduino
[23:41:27] <djdelorie> Thetawaves: all that control happens on the dedicated controller board, at 50 uS intervals.
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[23:41:56] <djdelorie> and yes, it holds to one encoder tick, which is 0.09 degrees
[23:42:02] <Thetawaves> djdelorie, it will still float between ticks of your encoder, how ever many units that may be
[23:42:05] <raynerd> really?? I have a few arduino boards..that would certainly be interesting to play with
[23:42:33] <Thetawaves> can you write C/C++?
[23:42:42] <djdelorie> on my machine, that works out to less than 0.1 thou, good enough for me :-)
[23:42:57] <djdelorie> can *I* write C/C++?
[23:43:03] <Thetawaves> raynerd,
[23:43:10] <MattyMatt2> FAQ: can djdelorie write C/C++? :)
[23:43:29] <raynerd> I can do some basic "C" ... www.raynerd.co.uk but not much as youll see on my site!
[23:43:48] <raynerd> I teach Chemistry and purchased the arduino boards for my students
[23:43:59] <djdelorie> The RaspPi's will run Fedora, in theory, they can run LinuxCNC directly on them.
[23:44:01] <raynerd> I use an EasyPIC 6 dev board with Mikro C for my stuff.
[23:44:33] <Thetawaves> was not a can if mikro stuff
[23:44:42] <MattyMatt2> Thetawaves http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Djgpp
[23:44:49] <raynerd> ??
[23:44:58] <Thetawaves> djdelorie, can you get rtai running on the raspberri pi chip?
[23:45:15] <djdelorie> probably, it's just an arm chip
[23:45:24] <MattyMatt2> rtai already runs on arm
[23:45:31] <MattyMatt2> yep it's arm
[23:45:45] <Thetawaves> arm is a lot of different chips
[23:45:59] <djdelorie> yeah, but it's a popular lot of different chips :-)
[23:46:14] <Thetawaves> i look at rtai on arm and was not impressed
[23:46:33] <Thetawaves> looked*
[23:46:40] <raynerd> Thetawawaves - what was the "C" question in reference to?
[23:46:52] <Thetawaves> your arduinos
[23:47:01] <raynerd> ahh I se.
[23:47:03] <raynerd> see
[23:47:47] <Thetawaves> raynerd, sorry up there i meant to say "I was not a fan of mikro stuff"
[23:47:48] <Thetawaves> heh
[23:48:01] <raynerd> I`m not really into coding, I just play about with it and although arduino is apparently simplified, using MikroC to learn, I struggle using the syntax in sketch.
[23:48:23] <raynerd> ahh.. interesting, I`m no expert but I really really liked it.
[23:48:49] <raynerd> liked = like ... I still use the EasyPic6 board.
[23:49:15] <Thetawaves> ahhh
[23:49:43] <Thetawaves> all my micro stuff uses avrlibc and gcc
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[23:49:48] <Thetawaves> it's a good toolchain
[23:50:02] <raynerd> you have lost me already
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[23:50:19] <Thetawaves> arduino sketches are really just a slightly modified C++
[23:50:44] <raynerd> I made an led dice, binary clock, cnc divider and then a x axis power feed with limits and that is about my coding portfolio!!
[23:50:47] <Thetawaves> i write regular C and avrlibc for my avr based microcontroller projects
[23:50:49] <MattyMatt2> if you're going to have a motion controller on USB, I like the idea of an FPGA
[23:50:58] <MattyMatt2> VHDL doesn't look too hard :)
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[23:51:22] <djdelorie> I suspect the mcus on my controllers are powerful enough to just run the g-code themselves ;-)
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[23:51:25] <ssi> MattyMatt2: mesa's already done that work for you :P
[23:52:02] <raynerd> Theatwaves: what sort of things do you make?
[23:52:03] <MattyMatt2> ssi yeah, there's also stuff like xula. $55
[23:52:31] <Thetawaves> i made a greenhouse timer
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[23:52:59] <raynerd> what did it time?
[23:53:09] <Thetawaves> lights/valves/pumps
[23:53:09] <MattyMatt2> with fpga I'm thinking devoting half to an opencore cpu to interpret the gcode
[23:53:18] <raynerd> sensors for windows and stuff?
[23:53:21] <MattyMatt2> so standalone
[23:53:46] <raynerd> rightyo...bed for me, up at 6
[23:53:57] <Thetawaves> and then i implemented 9p network file system on the controller so i can just mount it on a server in my network
[23:54:16] <raynerd> night guys....chuffed my cnc is working! Will be dreaming if cutting door signs tonight.
[23:54:20] <MattyMatt2> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ContributedComponents#Arduino_ADC_PWM_and_digital_I_O
[23:54:27] <JT-Shop> it is so much fun rigid tapping on the CHNC
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