#linuxcnc | Logs for 2012-03-13

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[00:14:58] <JT-Shop> mikegg: I think it is a doa hard drive
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[00:57:32] <morfic> JT-Shop: install smartctl and ask smart for some info/short test or long test
[00:58:15] <morfic> cradek: happy birthday
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[01:14:51] * flyback hopes siri causes madness and cancer
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[01:19:54] <ries> flyback: That's stupid of you saying that and quite offensive
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[01:34:20] <flyback> yeah well, rIES I hate the world
[01:35:28] <ries> flyback: don't hate the world...
[01:35:40] <Tom_itx> flyback why are you even in this channel?
[01:35:46] <Tom_itx> you don't do cnc
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[01:36:16] <flyback> I was helping someone earlier
[01:36:26] <Jymmm> flyback: You've pulled that random comment crap for years in the other channel, it's not appreciated nor tolerated in here. Please do not do it again.
[01:36:28] <Tom_itx> you're not helping now
[01:36:36] <flyback> that's fine
[01:36:47] <flyback> doens't matter anyways
[01:36:51] <flyback> I decided wha I need to do
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[01:37:10] <ries> sounds like a good decision to me
[01:37:43] <Jymmm> Actually that's pretty light compared to what he typically does.
[01:38:10] <Tom_itx> there aren't too many channels left for him
[01:38:58] <Jymmm> I doubt he's band from the other channel, just most have him on ignore
[01:39:23] <Dave911> A guy on the DIY-CNC email list reports this: error 32 BROKEN PIPE come up when
[01:39:25] <Dave911> i try to test the motors in the config screen on the Step Configuration software. Has anyone heard of that before??
[01:40:01] <Dave911> It is not an error I have heard of before.
[01:40:50] <Thetawaves> do you have the latency test running?
[01:41:25] <Dave911> I have no idea.. it really is not me reporting the error.. some LinuxCNC newbie.
[01:41:51] <Thetawaves> i believe that happened to me when i tried to test the motors while the latency test was running
[01:42:42] <Dave911> OK.. cool, I'll suggest that and see what happens. I'm going to recommend that he get on this IRC also.. Thanks..
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[01:47:12] <Thetawaves> is there a way i can setup linuxcnc to always run the plunge speed at 70% of the regular feed rate?
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[01:53:47] <Dave911> I think you could setup your regular feed rate as a variable. Do some math to set a different variable to 70% of your feed rate and use that variable as your plunge rate..
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[01:57:28] <mikegg> are you running g-code? ctrl-h works pretty well..
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[02:07:59] <Thetawaves> ctrl-h?
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[02:12:39] <mikegg> yeah just search and replace the g-code for the feed rate you want to change
[02:13:50] <mikegg> in the text editor that is..
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[02:15:13] <Tom_itx> some gcode editors let you do math on stuff to change offsets etc
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[04:14:08] <Kirk_Wallace> I'm trying to follow #include links through some source code for Modbus. I started with my demo.c, which has #include mb.h. mb.h has #include port.h, mbport.h and mbproto.h . One of my problems is, how do the .c files get included? Thanks to yesterday's IRC session, I learned about CFLAGS. Is there something else I need to learn about how .h and .c files get along?
[04:18:27] <djdelorie> .c files normally aren't "included" from elsewhere, they're where you start, usually built from a Makefile or other build system, one at a time.
[04:21:31] <Kirk_Wallace> I think the way my sample files are set up, the functions are declared in the .h's and defined in the .c's, so my guess is that they get included somehow and are not in my main demo.c .
[04:22:18] <Kirk_Wallace> Oops. I see your comment about the Makefile.
[04:27:38] <Kirk_Wallace> What I'm up against is the demo works fine with RS232 which is full-duplex. I found a RS485_ENABLE define which appears to add RTS toggling to control the RS485 transceiver. When I add the RS485_ENABLE the AVR pin gets setup but not connected to the modbus functions. I'm trying to reverse engineer the demo to see if I can fix the missing bits.
[04:30:05] <Kirk_Wallace> What's this from the Makefile? ## Other dependencies
[04:30:05] <Kirk_Wallace> -include $(shell mkdir dep 2>/dev/null) $(wildcard dep/*)
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[04:32:07] <djdelorie> the $(shell) creates the directory if it doesn't exist, and the $(wildcard) lists any makefile fragments to be included in the build rules.
[04:32:23] <djdelorie> for your purposes you can probably ignore that line
[04:33:34] <Kirk_Wallace> Or how about? ## Objects that must be built in order to link
[04:33:34] <Kirk_Wallace> #OBJECTS = excoils.o
[04:33:35] <Kirk_Wallace> OBJECTS = demo.o
[04:33:35] <Kirk_Wallace> MBPORTOBJECTS = port/portserial.o \
[04:33:35] <Kirk_Wallace> port/portevent.o \
[04:33:35] <Kirk_Wallace> port/porttimer.o \
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[04:34:11] <djdelorie> yeah, those are the kinds of things to look for. Elsewhere in the makefile there will be a pattern rule to say how to build *.o from *.c
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[04:39:12] <Kirk_Wallace> Here is the Makefile:
[04:39:18] <Kirk_Wallace> http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/EMC2/AVR/Makefile
[04:40:21] <djdelorie> hmmm... if you're building a project that *uses* modbus, perhaps modbus is a library? Do the instructions tell you to *link* in modbus?
[04:41:26] <Kirk_Wallace> It's FreeModbus http://freemodbus.berlios.de/index.php?idx=32
[04:43:06] <Kirk_Wallace> The demo is a sample from the AVR section of the package. I've been massaging it to get the application I want.
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[04:44:36] <djdelorie> well, I don't know that package, but in general, after you compile all the files to *.o (or *.a), including your demo.o, you use gcc to link all the *.o (and *.a) into the final executable.
[04:47:14] <Thetawaves> you avr users..
[04:47:22] <Kirk_Wallace> I'm just used to linking files with includes from the main .c file so this Makefile stuff is new to me. I think I can be pretty sure the .o file list will cover all of the .c files that are linked. Which means I've got to look at all of them to find my RTS problem, darn.
[04:47:31] <alex4nder> hey
[04:47:50] <Thetawaves> i wrote a 9p network fs layer to communicate with the micros as if they are files mounted
[04:48:22] <Thetawaves> could get about 440 reads/sec i believe
[04:49:09] <Thetawaves> i thought it would make it really easy to interface with emc
[04:49:23] <Thetawaves> just write your encoder targets to a file
[04:49:26] <Thetawaves> profit!
[04:52:00] <Kirk_Wallace> I'm trying to make an add on for my very old VFD's to add Modbus. Started out as an easy project. I still need to figure out how to set communications parameters with no display and maybe some buttons and LED's, even that doesn't seem to be easy.
[04:55:04] <psha[work]> logger[psha]_: .
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[05:06:47] <Kirk_Wallace> djdelorie: Thanks, you got me to start looking at the "make" reply to see what it did. Thetawaves: good luck with your project, I'll be watching to see what happens.
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[05:15:01] <Kirk_Wallace> I seem to recall from my old days of playing with UNIX, there is a handy way to search files for the occurrence of a string?
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[05:15:36] <djdelorie> grep
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[05:16:52] <Kirk_Wallace> In other words, to search all files below /my_demo_sw for all files with "RTS" in them.
[05:18:23] <djdelorie> grep RTS my_demo_sw/*
[05:18:40] <djdelorie> find my_demo_sw -type f -exec grep RTS {} /dev/null \;
[05:21:10] <Kirk_Wallace> Okay, thanks again. I'm back to the software sandbox to play some more.
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[06:52:12] <mikebronner> Hi Guys, just finished wiring my limit switches, and am getting joint 2 on limit switch error. I don't have any home switches configured or installed.
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[06:53:34] <mikebronner> Having a hard time trying to debug this (still very green at this). Any ideas what might be going on?
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[07:06:35] * mikebronner started halscope, looks like there might be induction from neighboring 36V cabling, seeing random noise spikes.
[07:09:19] <Jymmm> using shielded cable?
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[07:36:12] <cncbasher> Mikebronner: chances are your switch is working in reverse
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[07:37:55] <cncbasher> noise spikes wont help either
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[08:06:13] <mikebronner> @Jymmm @cncbasher hey guys, thanks for the ideas…. i used regular CAT5E cables for the limit switches. Will replace with shielded CAT6A and ground it. Switches are fine, tested them manually and watched using halrun -I -f ptest.hal, all operate as expected. Watching halscope clearly shows numerous noise spikes at the same time the limit switch errors are triggered. Will also replace the temporary wiring to the motors with better wiring and run
[08:06:14] <mikebronner> separate conduits for motor power and limit switches. Hope that will fix the issue. :)
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[08:07:15] <cncbasher> mike , are the switches volt free .. i.e switch to ground
[08:07:46] <mikebronner> @cncbasher: running switches in NC serial circuit
[08:08:06] <mikebronner> which would mean normal 5V, interrupt to 0V
[08:08:17] <Jymmm> mikebronner: This is IRC, not twitter, no @ necessary.
[08:08:32] <mikebronner> hehe, old habit :)
[08:09:17] <cncbasher> ok , thats fine , use sheilded cables and keep away from motor etc , should do the trick
[08:09:45] <Jymmm> and only connect one end of the shield, not both.
[08:10:25] <mikebronner> cncbasher: would it be better to run NO, that way the spikes wouldn't make such an effect? My thinking with NC was that if there was a defect or break in a wire, it would shut the machine down and prevent unintended damage if it were to run past the soft limits
[08:11:27] <cncbasher> better to run nc with 5v , than no and to ground
[08:11:58] <cncbasher> also means if the cable develops a fault , you'll know about it first
[08:13:02] <cncbasher> sheilding your cables and keeping low voltage wiring away from motor wiring should sort it just fine
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[08:16:37] <mikebronner> just looking at our wiring diagram: with NC serial, should we be running limit switches inverted (which we have)? Investigating now to see if switching that fixes things.
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[08:31:41] <mikebronner> ah, no … we aren't running inverted after all … all switches behave as should an only trigger when pressed.
[08:32:11] <mikebronner> cncbasher, Jymmm: will implement shielded wiring this week. thanks for your advice :)
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[08:33:32] <cncbasher> yea sheilded cable should solve your problem fine
[08:34:08] <cncbasher> i use cat5 or cat 6 sheilded , without problems
[08:34:43] <cncbasher> but just ground the sheild at one end , or your back to square one
[08:35:08] <Valen> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=wSuH9u0kvhU
[08:35:11] <Valen> awesome
[08:35:21] <Valen> though it could do with being steam powered
[08:35:59] <Valen> and less brass paint
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[09:04:15] <pingufan> Good morning. Yesterday "Loetmichel" showed me a ling to ebay for cheap tools. My IRC client cannot roll back. Can someone remember, please?
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[09:05:54] <awallin> this? http://stores.ebay.de/VHM-Shop-gunstig-fair?_trksid=p4340.l2563
[09:06:03] <awallin> there might be an irc log somewhere..
[09:06:27] <pingufan> Yes, that was it. Thank you.
[09:07:26] <pingufan> You do not know V-shaped cutters for cheap?
[09:07:45] <Jymmm> for metal?
[09:08:17] <pingufan> I want to mill PCBs. So tis is mixed. Copper and fibre-glass.
[09:09:33] <awallin> order directly from china... if you want cheap. quality can be varying though..
[09:09:43] <Jymmm> pingufan: http://thinktink.com/ This is what cradek uses
[09:10:41] <archivist> free shipping http://www.virtualvillage.com/pack-of-5-carbide-engraving-bits-40-degree-0-2mm-diameter-007807-227.html
[09:10:43] <pingufan> I think that - for first steps - they cannot be cheap enough. One mistake in program, too slow or fast, and ... click-bybye
[09:10:46] <awallin> or just call LPKF, you germans like quality like bmw and merc anyway - who cares what it costs..
[09:11:06] <pingufan> Nono. I am NO German.
[09:11:45] <awallin> oh, ok. sorry..
[09:11:46] <pingufan> Especially no BMW and Merc.
[09:12:00] <pingufan> I drive a US car, my wife, too.
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[09:13:38] <pingufan> What is the correct english name of a V-shaped engraving cutter?
[09:14:15] <bedah> the stichel?
[09:14:24] <pingufan> yes
[09:14:28] <bedah> hehe
[09:14:46] <pingufan> But that's surely not english
[09:15:01] <pingufan> "Gravierstichel"
[09:15:12] <bedah> ja
[09:15:23] <bedah> "engraver"? i do not know
[09:15:40] <archivist> V-shaped engraving cutter is good enough
[09:16:00] <pingufan> Only to know what I enter in a search field
[09:16:44] <pingufan> What is an "End mill" ?
[09:19:11] <awallin> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endmill
[09:23:54] <pingufan> Ah! It can also mill in its axis direction.
[09:33:23] <Cylly> mornin'
[09:33:53] <Cylly> pingufan: you mean VHM tools?
[09:34:29] <Cylly> the ebayshop was not from me
[09:34:43] <Cylly> I buy here: www.mmetoolshop.de
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[09:40:30] <pingufan> Strange shop. Do you also see only dots?
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[09:54:44] <awallin> ie only website?
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[10:08:28] <Loetmichel> pingufan: over here it is normal
[10:08:43] <Loetmichel> and no, no ie only, $me is surfing with firefox
[10:09:17] <Loetmichel> maybe your browser dosent support redirect?
[10:10:00] <Loetmichel> try this then: http://mmetoolshop.homepage.t-online.de/shop/index.php?cPath=59
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[10:11:31] <Loetmichel> ah, pingufan is from austria.
[10:12:07] <Loetmichel> so he could order in the mmetoolshop easyly
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[10:13:49] <Loetmichel> awallin: as for the beamer and merc: i think with tools its more like: bad tools are the worst time and money consumer. buy cheap, buy twiche like we say over here ;-)
[10:13:53] <Loetmichel> twice
[10:15:18] <pingufan> Hi, Loetmichel !
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[10:16:39] <pingufan> Please, can somebody tell me how to force installation of openssh-server in Ubuntu 8? It claims that there are damaged packets
[10:37:37] <pingufan> Loetmichel: How do you sharpen your tools ("Stichel")?
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[10:44:35] <Loetmichel> freehand
[10:44:44] <Loetmichel> wiht a dremel and a diamond disc
[10:45:21] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=8961
[10:45:51] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=8958 <- made from old broken TC bits ;-)
[10:46:28] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/pce/Stichelschleifen.avi
[10:47:27] <Loetmichel> had toi do about 20ß to get it right the first time, but now its like machine.made ones
[10:50:12] <Loetmichel> -i-ß
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[10:51:39] <archivist> anyone have any .18 mod hobs they dont want :)
[10:55:34] <pingufan> Yesterday, cradek suggested to use this command for probing the tool length: g91 g38.2 z0 f40
[10:56:03] <pingufan> Well, this results in an error: g38 cannot be used in relative moves
[10:57:21] <pingufan> Still searching for a method to probe the tool length independent of workpiece height, as g38.2 uses user coordinates (and hereby G54 coordinates)
[10:58:19] <jthornton> just switch to an unused coordinate system
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[11:23:15] <Loetmichel> pingufan: seen the "stichel" sharpening?
[11:26:56] <mazafaka> heh, it's offtopic, but one pretty common Russian bank charged me with a credit with 64 percents per year credit for my camera. So today, I have simply epayed for the camera with cash
[11:29:19] <mazafaka> I will go tomorrow to the another bank, asking for a 3-year credit for a car, with 15.70 % per year...
[11:32:23] <psha[work]> how large?
[11:33:09] <psha[work]> btw small credits are awful thing
[11:33:12] <psha[work]> they are too expensive
[11:37:33] <mazafaka> psha[work]: about 110K roubles for three years, and pay it much faster
[11:38:28] <mazafaka> There's a UAZ on portal axes, but I have no license yet. I will have to ask someone to drive the car.
[11:40:15] <mazafaka> Loetmichel: what, the 'stichel' is a tool for engraving?
[11:40:18] <pingufan> Loetmichel: I watched my mill making a PCB with 150mm/min. It works indeed. Yes, now I viewed it. And this is precisely enough to get a cutting ende?
[11:40:20] <psha[work]> nice price
[11:40:24] <psha[work]> if it's yet driving :)
[11:40:28] <psha[work]> s/yet/still
[11:42:19] <Loetmichel> MarkusBec: true
[11:42:26] <mazafaka> 65K is another nice price, for which it moves by itself
[11:42:39] <Loetmichel> grrr
[11:42:44] <mazafaka> what Loetmichel
[11:42:52] <Loetmichel> mazafaka : true
[11:42:56] <Loetmichel> ... tabfail...
[11:43:08] <mazafaka> I plan to take a photo of the mill I work with...
[11:43:34] <Loetmichel> pingufan: 150mm/min is REALLY slow
[11:43:45] <pingufan> I am so shy...
[11:43:59] <mazafaka> but not tonight, tonight is the use of a see-saw 'to load the lathes with work till the end of next week'
[11:44:10] <Loetmichel> IIRC i am milling my pcbs with this v-shaped engravers with about 40mm/s !
[11:44:17] <Loetmichel> 20 at minimum
[11:44:35] <mazafaka> isn't it too quick
[11:44:43] <Loetmichel> so 2400/1200mm/min
[11:44:57] <mazafaka> do the work longer, and enjoy it!
[11:45:09] <Loetmichel> mazafaka: not if you have a spindle with at leastz 20kRPM
[11:45:10] <pingufan> Really? "Huch"
[11:46:07] <Loetmichel> and i get this result: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=804
[11:46:08] <mazafaka> Loetmichel: I also tune the programs and mill faster.
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[11:46:20] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=814
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[11:46:48] <Loetmichel> ... nearly driving the mill in G0 ;-)
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[11:47:18] <pingufan> What diameter does the tool have?
[11:47:42] <psha[work]> mazafaka: heh, 65k is a too suspicious :)
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[11:48:10] <Loetmichel> pingufan: about 0,1 to 0,2mm
[11:48:13] <Loetmichel> the tip
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[11:48:22] <mazafaka> psha[work]: no, I know that car. It is aols and restorated and it was far but it is sold here
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[11:48:33] <Loetmichel> dont try to get a tip witnh "=", it will break at an instant
[11:48:37] <Loetmichel> 0
[11:48:52] <pingufan> I am scaried. Must speed up step by step - better for my nerves.
[11:49:14] <mazafaka> psha[work]: I have just realised Jeep Wrangler is of the same size as Niva, but 200 mm taller
[11:49:18] <Loetmichel> if the tools are made of broken TC biots: nothing to be scared of;-)
[11:49:24] <pingufan> Do you have a picture of your mill ?
[11:49:34] <psha[work]> mazafaka: heh, same size but not same quality :)
[11:49:48] <Loetmichel> and jey, it needs some practice to do ev-engravers "freehanded"
[11:50:05] <mazafaka> well, portal axes are being installed even onto Nissan's
[11:50:07] <psha[work]> reng is pretty tought
[11:50:16] <pingufan> I wanted to ask... How many tools did not cut?
[11:50:22] <mazafaka> 'reng' ?
[11:50:56] <Loetmichel> pingufan: about the first 20
[11:51:11] <Loetmichel> since then: occasionally one or tw each 20
[11:51:24] <mazafaka> psha[work]: in fact, I already thi nk how to remove any rust and check the axes, gearbox and the engine
[11:51:31] <psha[work]> mazafaka: common name for wrangler
[11:51:53] <pingufan> You have to remove slightly more than 1/2 of diameter of the shaft, then it cuts. right?
[11:51:57] <psha[work]> however 100k for uaz on portal is nice
[11:52:25] <mazafaka> yeah
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[11:53:13] <Loetmichel> no, exactly the half
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[11:53:28] <mazafaka> it's somewhat like 3'300 USD here, with the price of used jeep rangler be about 30'000 USD
[11:53:33] <Loetmichel> and then remove the outside of the V
[11:53:43] <Loetmichel> all until the leading edge
[11:53:49] <Loetmichel> s/until/but
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[11:54:09] <Loetmichel> so the leading edge is the fares t out
[11:54:18] <mazafaka> Loetmichel: what, you have just made it the same as some new tool with wich you worked?
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[11:59:19] <pingufan> I am afraid that my collet is not perfectly centered. Sometimes I get perfect borders, sometimes they are rough and the track is wider. My tools slide easily into the collet. Possibly too easy. (I use a Proxon Collet in a self-made spindle.)
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[12:03:46] <pingufan> Any tricks to get it better centered?
[12:05:47] <pingufan> The problem is that Proxxon uses metric collets.
[12:13:31] <archivist> normally there is no trick other than quality of tools (spindle, spindle bearing, collet, collet nut)
[12:14:16] <Valen> we just replaced our spindle bearings
[12:14:29] <Valen> with budget grade parts to be sure
[12:14:44] <Valen> but the origional one had a matched set of angular contact bearings
[12:14:48] <Valen> which is fine
[12:15:08] <Valen> except there were only 2 bearings and they were both pointing the same way
[12:18:07] <pingufan> I will try the next closer collet. The tool shaft will sit better in it, this possibly makes tolerances smaller.
[12:19:05] <Valen> pingufan: collets usually only work over a 2mm range or so as i recall
[12:20:22] <pingufan> my collet has an outside diameter of 7mm. :)
[12:20:44] <pingufan> On biggest point.
[12:22:55] <pingufan> When I see somewhere a broken spindle (or if somebody here has one) with a burned out motor but bearings and shaft ok, I will replace my one. My spindle is turned by a belt.
[12:23:38] <pingufan> You don't know one? -> We talk here of something with a diameter of 8-10mm !!!
[12:35:47] <Valen> for seeing how centered your stuff is put a dial guage on the shaft of the tool
[12:35:53] <Valen> it shouldn't move as you turn it
[12:36:19] <Valen> what your seeing (or think your seeing) is called runout
[12:36:51] <Valen> its not uncommon (especially on home builds) to have the spindle offset some, but for your tools and collets to have an offset as well
[12:37:06] <Valen> if you put them together such that they cancel each other out so much the better ;->
[12:38:18] <pingufan> Yes. But I think that a better spindle will make things better. So i look for a mechanical intact spindle, motor can be damaged.
[12:43:13] * jthornton wonders why so many mack users are switching to the enhanced machine controller
[12:44:20] <ssi> switching from what?
[12:44:29] <jthornton> mach
[12:44:55] <awallin> gilette mach3. that one I use...
[12:44:57] <ssi> cause emc is awesome maybe? :D
[12:46:45] <jthornton> just seems to be more and more coming over from the dark side on the forum
[12:47:35] <awallin> win 8 is probably not helping mach much :)
[12:49:39] <ssi> haha
[12:49:50] <ssi> JT: I have a really really dumb question
[12:50:01] <ssi> JT: how do you change collets on the hardinge machines? :(
[12:50:31] <jthornton> do you have an air collet closer?
[12:50:34] <ssi> yes
[12:51:11] <jthornton> big aluminum cylinder on back side of spindle?
[12:51:14] <ssi> yep
[12:52:21] <jthornton> there is a ring with 4 1/4-20 SHCS, you loosen them up and push in the spindle lock then spin the cylinder after you cut off an allen wrench to get to the screws
[12:52:48] <jthornton> the ring is between the cyl and the spindle housing
[12:52:49] <ssi> I have stubby allens, hopefully that won't be necessary ;)
[12:53:01] <ssi> so basically you have to remove the closer?
[12:53:05] <ssi> or at least free it from the spindle
[12:53:16] <jthornton> no, just loosen it so you can spin it
[12:53:21] <jthornton> yes
[12:53:33] <ssi> gotcha
[12:53:34] <ssi> thanks
[12:53:59] <jthornton> np, I thought mine was broken when I first got it as it was hanging out the back lol
[12:54:05] <ssi> heheh
[12:54:16] <ssi> I still can't disengage the damn brake
[12:54:28] <jthornton> spindle brake?
[12:54:30] <ssi> yeah
[12:54:48] <ssi> I pulled one of the SSRs from the motor contactors (since I won't need them anyway)
[12:54:49] <jthornton> is it a disk brake under the bottom by the spindle motor?
[12:54:51] <ssi> yeah
[12:55:16] <jthornton> you could just swap out the air lines so it is open until you get that far
[12:55:33] <ssi> is it air powered?
[12:57:29] <ssi> I'll try to dig into it a bit this morning
[12:57:36] <jthornton> mine is
[12:57:36] <ssi> I haven't really gotten a good look inside the backside of it yet
[12:57:50] <jthornton> it is just a spring loaded brake and the air releases it
[12:57:57] <ssi> gotcha
[12:57:59] <jthornton> at least mine is
[12:58:12] <jthornton> see you guys out in the shop
[12:58:15] <ssi> okeeee
[13:05:21] <Valen> oh pingufan what i meant by a range of 1-2mm per collet i meant a 7mm collet will only take from 6 to 8 mm tools
[13:06:05] <Valen> wrt mach users coming to EMC, all the cheap chinese crap comes with EMC configs (that dont work)
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[13:44:19] <JT-Shop> interesting, you would think if they included EMC that they would at least make sure it worked
[13:46:13] <archivist> probably for version x when the wind blew west in a sunny day on feb 29
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[13:47:05] <JT-Shop> yea, that don't happen too often around here
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[13:50:34] <archivist> so what price to quote for a stupidly small gear for a model car. I have a feeling I can only make it by gear shaping, so make the cutter making tool, make the cutter..make blank...cut gear on axle
[13:52:14] <jdhnc> sounds inefficient for a one-off
[13:52:23] <archivist> very
[13:53:09] <archivist> 18 teeth crown gear 3.6mm od...which is .18mod
[13:53:13] <jdhnc> how about a set of diamond files and some time.
[13:53:33] <archivist> show me small enough files :)
[13:53:55] <jdhnc> how about rotary edm
[13:54:50] <archivist> I need to find a .18mod hob to make the copper
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[14:49:02] <ssi> enco has mobilmet 766 web price $69.95/5gal
[14:49:12] <ssi> and they have a 20% off coupon code this week for over $99
[14:49:18] <ssi> so 10 gal of 766 is $112
[14:49:22] <ssi> but shipping is $50
[14:49:31] <ssi> free shipping coupon actually comes out cheaper than the 20% off coupon
[14:49:32] <ssi> hah
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[17:28:32] <JT-5i25> I had 2.5 emc installed on this computer and tried to install emc-dev and it gave me some warnings about unresolvable dependencies so I uninstalled it and tried to install linuxcnc but get an error
[17:28:45] <JT-5i25> linuxcnc:
[17:28:47] <JT-5i25> Depends: linux-image-2.6.24-16-rtai but it is not installable
[17:28:49] <JT-5i25> Depends: python (<2.6) but 2.6.5-0ubuntu1 is to be installed
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[17:32:32] <frysteev> has there been any news on the mesa 7149 resolver board drivers for emc?
[17:32:49] <pcw__> driver is in 2.5
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[17:34:57] <A2Sheds> http://micromanufacturing.com/content/mitutoyo-heralds-worlds-first-01%C2%B5m-micrometer
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[17:53:32] <archivist> accuracy much worse than resolution and at those levels it needs a constant force anvil
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[18:14:23] <frysteev> anyone use serial with EMC at all? Not for motion contorl, but for status monitors etc,
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[18:18:18] <pcw__> Sure serial modbus is supported for VFDs and for example samco is using a Arduino
[18:18:21] <pcw__> for spindle temperature measurement to compensate for spindle growth
[18:19:08] <motioncontrol> Hi good evening have a problem with debounce component. I have loadrt debounce in hal file but have error ismod failed . What is the correct write for debouce component ?
[18:19:29] <pcw__> (and most of our new I/O is serial though this is somewhat special)
[18:20:03] <frysteev> cool. i knew it was theoretically possble, i need a ton of i/o, but most of them arent realtime depentant,
[18:22:33] <cradek> motioncontrol: please share your exact hal command, and your exact error message
[18:23:42] <motioncontrol> cradek, in dmesg have : DEBOUNCE: ERROR: no channels configured
[18:24:08] <cradek> motioncontrol: have you looked at the debounce man page?
[18:24:28] <motioncontrol> cradek, no please have a link ?
[18:24:39] <cradek> man debounce
[18:26:24] <JT-Shop> motioncontrol: do you know what a man page is? and where they are?
[18:26:25] <motioncontrol> cradek, ok thanks now test
[18:26:32] <JT-Shop> nm
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[18:32:36] <motioncontrol> cradek, have write loadrt debounce [cfg=5] for 5 groups but have error: .hal.14 Emply variable not understand ?
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[18:33:59] <alex4nder> yoh
[18:34:32] <JT-Shop> motioncontrol: try loadrt debounce cfg=5
[18:34:56] <JT-Shop> [xxx] means optional iirc
[18:35:03] <pcw__> brackets are to show optional parameters
[18:35:26] <motioncontrol> JT-Shop, more thenks now is loated.
[18:35:54] <pcw__> I've always thought man pages need more examples
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[18:36:44] <archivist> I do surely agree with that sentiment :)
[18:37:11] <JT-Shop> or have more examples in the manual...
[18:37:26] <archivist> was trying to help the other day looked at the man page and ....
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[18:41:10] <JT-Shop> I don't know how my plasma was working me not knowing the difference between hardy har har and lumbering lucid
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[18:47:06] <JT-Shop> now were getting somewhere, comp works and tells me to fix my stupid typos :) YEA!
[18:47:33] <archivist> website layout problem http://www.archivist.info/cnc/Screenshot-9.png
[18:48:22] <isssy> scroll down
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[18:48:40] <archivist> I know how to scroll!!!
[18:48:46] <IchGuckLive> hi all around the globe
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[18:52:25] <jbunch-shop> working on setting up encoder on spindle. unable to see rev count in spindle-rev. mesa 7137 card using port 3
[18:53:36] <tom3p> archivist, there should be a way to make the thumb blink, saying "scroll me! scroll me!"
[18:55:46] <isssy> that type of counter are you using?
[18:57:05] <jbunch-shop> I am using the counter and index input on port3 in the mesa card.
[18:57:33] <jdhnc> how critical is latency if I have a 7i43 for steppers?
[18:58:07] <isssy> no , the encoder on the spindle
[19:01:41] <jbunch-shop> I am using an Omeron open collector 500 ppr encoder I pulling the outputs high with 500 ohm resistors, I have checked at the card with a scope and am gettting a square wave from the output of the encoder. the pin spindle-vel-fb shows activity.
[19:03:05] <isssy> ok.
[19:03:45] <isssy> now , try rotating the spindle by hand to see if there are reading changes on the axix
[19:03:51] <isssy> axis , sorry
[19:04:00] <ssi> JT-Shop: I pulled the spindle brake off... it's definitely electromechanical, not pneumatic
[19:04:14] <ssi> got my spindle VFD installed in the power side cabinet, and manually ran the spindle a bit...
[19:04:23] <ssi> clutches both work, but the belts and shafts all sound a bit dry
[19:04:44] <ssi> haven't tried dorking with the speed control mechanism at all yet
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[19:05:02] <isssy> if not , there is a jumper Jpr3 according to the drawing
[19:05:12] <isssy> switch it and try again
[19:06:05] <isssy> it is possible if the encoder is too fine , the card to be not in position to read it at hi speed
[19:06:39] <isssy> i mean 2500 ppr ar 30000 rpm...
[19:06:39] <isssy> gess
[19:09:17] <isssy> then read with the scope pins 3 , 5 and 13 on U5 , theese are the outputs
[19:09:29] <archivist> tom3p, needs to be someone with access to joomla source and configs to fix
[19:09:31] <isssy> you should get sqare reading there too
[19:11:29] <tom3p> archivist, i've seen that fooler before, thinking nothing was there, yep, no way for users to halp with its layout, notawiki
[19:11:55] <archivist> tom3p, fails validation too
[19:12:47] <jbunch-shop> When I move the spindle CW I receive a + readout on Spindle-vel-fb. When I move CCW I receive a - readout . nothing on the spindle-rev. Is there some boilerplate for a spindle setup using a 7137 around?
[19:12:48] <jbunch-shop>
[19:13:28] <isssy> wrong connection
[19:14:00] <isssy> are you using diferential out of the encoder?
[19:14:13] <PCW> 7I37 is not suited as an encoder input (unless its very slow)
[19:14:26] <isssy> hi pete
[19:14:32] <PCW> Hi isssy
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[19:15:56] <DJ9DJ> namd
[19:17:53] <jbunch-shop> excuse me 7133ta analog board
[19:18:04] <PCW> OK thats fine
[19:19:54] <jbunch-shop> PCW: is there boilerplate for setting up a spindle on this card? I am questioning my setup ini file configuration.
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[19:21:35] <JT-Shop> ssi: cool, sounds like your making progress
[19:21:48] <PCW> no that card but there should be some spindle code that can be ported
[19:23:13] <PCW> "spindle" covers a fairly large ground
[19:23:15] <PCW> is this just spindle encoder setup?
[19:23:16] <PCW> spindle speed control and encoder?
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[19:27:40] <jbunch-shop> I am starting with spindle readout and moving to spindle control with a VFD. This is on a lathe with Axis X and Z using input 0 and 1. Spindle control on input 2.
[19:30:17] <jbunch-shop> Have to go be back i 1 hr
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[19:45:35] <JT-Shop> would that be similar to the spindle examples in the manual?
[19:49:35] <PCW> yeah they should all be pretty much the same (other than fancy PID speed controls or other added features)
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[20:16:34] <motioncontrol> PCW, good morning i have some spurius noise on digital input the mesa card when some asincronos motor running, whit debounce componets can resolve it ?
[20:17:35] <PCW> yes if speed is not an issue (debounce will slow the recognition of signals)
[20:17:52] <PCW> is this a 7I37 input?
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[20:18:32] <motioncontrol> yes i have probleb with it, in some case the input is true , but it really is false
[20:18:48] <PCW> 7I37?
[20:19:14] <motioncontrol> true for some instant , yes 7i37
[20:19:41] <motioncontrol> can use some resistor or capacity ?
[20:19:43] <PCW> we have changed the design of the 7I37 so recent ones have better noise immunity (3V input threshold VS 1.5V)
[20:20:20] <motioncontrol> can modification my card myself ?
[20:20:47] <motioncontrol> change some resistor on card ?
[20:21:05] <PCW> Is this a 7I37TA?
[20:21:19] <motioncontrol> yes Ta model
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[20:22:27] <frysteev> it has more T&A
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[20:23:08] <PCW> Versions before C have the 1.5V input threshold Version C and later have 3V threshold
[20:23:09] <PCW> its not easy to change as its an added resistor but debounce or a small input capacitor (say .01 uF) should fix it
[20:23:53] <motioncontrol> ok the capacirot connected on input and 0volt ?
[20:24:34] <PCW> our newer serial I/O expanders are better in this respect (threshold is 1/2 field voltage)
[20:24:35] <PCW> capacitor across input pins
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[20:25:30] <motioncontrol> PCW, ok thanks about help tomorrow im prove it
[20:28:23] <PCW> with the new serial expanders running at 24V, you need 14.4V to read high (and back down to 9.6V to read low that is 50% +-10% hysteresis)
[20:28:25] <PCW> so they are much more noise immune (but you lose TTL interface capability)
[20:32:58] <Nick001-Shop> will a 5vdc ttl fron the parallel port drive a standard SSR 3-32 vdc?
[20:33:26] <Thetawaves> yes
[20:34:00] <Thetawaves> you will have to verify, but i believe SSRs use optoisolators, so it's like 5vdc at 20ma
[20:34:04] <Thetawaves> which is quite low
[20:34:08] <PCW> Better sinking than sourcing normally
[20:36:04] <Nick001-Shop> how do I do that from the parport
[20:36:44] <PCW> 5V from PC to SSR+ SSR- to parallel port pin
[20:36:58] <PCW> low pp pin is on
[20:40:13] <Nick001-Shop> lost me sortof - 5v from pp pin 2 to SSR+ SSR- to PP port ? M8 is turning pin 2 on with 5vdc
[20:41:07] <Thetawaves> when you sink power
[20:41:28] <Thetawaves> you are providing a path to ground for some higher voltage signal
[20:41:47] <Thetawaves> so you need the find the pin on the parallel port that is +5v all the time
[20:41:53] <Thetawaves> and hook that into SSR+
[20:42:11] <Thetawaves> pin 2 of the parallel port will only conduct electricity to ground while it is at low
[20:42:43] <Thetawaves> so when pin 2 provides 5v as you noticed, it would not conduct electricity to ground, and not turn on
[20:43:23] <Nick001-Shop> the tern sinking draws a blank look from me -) sorry
[20:43:38] <PCW> Yes you need to steel +5V from a USB connector or some such for SSR +
[20:44:11] <PCW> 5V PC power supply to SSR+, SSR- to parallel port pin
[20:44:47] <PCW> so the parallel port turns the SSR on by sinking (pulling down) the PP pin
[20:45:59] <PCW> (there is no PP pin thats 5V all the time alas so you must steal PC 5V power elsewhere)
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[20:47:16] <Nick001-Shop> you keep answering quetions faster than I can type -)
[20:47:39] <Thetawaves> it would be better to setup your own 5v power supply
[20:47:41] <Thetawaves> they are easy
[20:48:07] <Nick001-Shop> if one has all the parts around
[20:50:15] <PCW> Its often better to use the PC supply (so the SSR is guaranteed to be off when the PC is off)
[20:51:03] <JT-Shop> well crap, play time is over... we have to build a machine now :)
[20:51:13] <Nick001-Shop> can I turn an output pin on and use that as the supply?
[20:51:17] <PCW> if the SSR is on a spindle then you need something safer like a charge pump
[20:51:22] <PCW> No
[20:51:25] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, gotta pay for another cannon?
[20:51:35] <Nick001-Shop> rats
[20:52:09] <PCW> the problem with most parallel ports is that they will not source much current
[20:52:39] <Nick001-Shop> the SSR's turn thins on like a coil for a starter and air valves
[20:52:53] <Nick001-Shop> things
[20:53:37] <Nick001-Shop> so they are just turning the SSR on and off
[20:53:50] <PCW> it may not be in a good state at startup until EMC runs (which is why fancy BOBs have charge pumps)
[20:54:18] <Nick001-Shop> there is also like 8 of them to control
[20:55:05] <Nick001-Shop> nothing runs until emc starts
[20:55:19] <PCW> do any cause a hazard if they turn on at power-up?
[20:55:43] <jdhnc> I have some black Opto SSR's that draw <1mA, you can drive them from the pport, but sometimes when you turn on the PC, they come one.
[20:55:45] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx: one cannon is plenty I'd think
[20:55:57] <Nick001-Shop> no - 1 SSR has to turn on before the others can work
[20:56:41] <PCW> So you need to make sure that one behaves well at startup
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[20:57:03] <Nick001-Shop> I dont know what kind these are - There in the back cabnet of a Hardinge
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[20:58:09] <Nick001-Shop> right - that's the way AB worked then it seems
[20:58:36] <Nick001-Shop> my spelling is lousy
[21:01:40] <Nick001-Shop> I'll go try turning on a parport pin at startup for a 5v power supply and see what happens - back later
[21:03:01] <archivist> par ports can be open collector and if they have an internal pullup its about 3 k iirc hardly a power supply
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[21:06:56] <PCW> arghh
[21:07:08] <Nick001-Shop> what kind of power do SSR's use?
[21:08:12] <Nick001-Shop> what is the command to use to turn a pin on in the test hal command window?
[21:10:24] <PCW> setp
[21:11:17] <Nick001-Shop> setp parport0. ??
[21:11:45] <PCW> setp parport0.nn true
[21:11:56] <Mjolinor> its a lot esier to install the parlalel port test software
[21:12:19] <Mjolinor> gese my typing is getting worse
[21:12:25] <Nick001-Shop> false turns it off?
[21:12:34] <PCW> yep
[21:13:10] <PCW> well off is a loaded term, false sets it low
[21:13:11] <Nick001-Shop> now maybe I can test the SSR thanks
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[21:14:32] <Nick001-Shop> does the same thing sortof?
[21:15:31] <PCW> well depending on how external things are connected, a low pin might be "on"
[21:17:29] <Nick001-Shop> as far as I know - the 5v turns the SSR on or off - Connects 120vac from one upper contact to another to operate a coil
[21:19:10] <PCW> Yes but if you wire the SSR for sinking drive (+5 to SSR+ SSY- to PP pin)
[21:19:12] <PCW> you would set the PP pin to false to turn on the SSR
[21:20:23] <PCW> that is you in this connection the when the PP pin is at 5V, the SSR has 0V across its inputs since both pins are at 5V
[21:20:32] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[21:20:56] <PCW> boy i put a few extra words in there...
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[21:21:37] <Nick001-Shop> right - I need to turn another pin on to get a 5v signal to connect to SSR+ and SSR- goes to pin 2 which M* turns on with 5v
[21:22:07] <PCW> No No No you need to steal 5V from the PC
[21:23:21] <PCW> You can try sourcing drive just in case it works (for sourcing drive wire SSR+ to PP pin and SSR- to ground --> true is SSR on)
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[21:25:48] <Nick001-Shop> wouldn't turning another pin on as a s5vsource work?
[21:25:53] <PCW> but the problem is most parallel ports dont source much current so this may or may not work
[21:25:55] <PCW> the other option is to use the parallel port in sinking mode, where you supply 5V (stolen from PC USB or disk connector)
[21:25:56] <PCW> to all the SSR+ pins and connect the SSR - pins to PP output pins)
[21:26:01] <PCW> no it will not
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[21:27:09] <PCW> and if it would work, you might as well use sourcing drive to begin with and not waste the pin
[21:28:34] <Nick001-Shop> Ahha - I can steal it fron a disk connector - But isn't this the same 5v I would get from the parport?
[21:30:27] <PCW> There is no 5V available from a parallel port (only (weak) output bits)
[21:30:41] <Nick001-Shop> I have pins I can waste - I have 4 extra parport cards in the computer -just to see if linux would reqonize all of them
[21:31:09] <Nick001-Shop> my voltmeter says 5v when a pin is on
[21:31:25] <archivist> par port outputs are via a semiconductor or pull up not 5v direct
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[21:31:49] <PCW> 5V signal is not the same as 5V power (you will see this you apply a load )
[21:32:02] <Nick001-Shop> is that why they call it TTL?
[21:32:39] <PCW> Nowadays its all CMOS but you are dealing with low power logic signals
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[21:33:23] <Nick001-Shop> I'll have to nail that one in place so I get it right
[21:35:14] <PCW> well now to figure out why my ARP ARPs but once
[21:35:15] <PCW> bbl
[21:40:20] <Nick001-Shop> would a 5v signal from an optocoupler card work as a power source for the SSR's?
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[22:03:34] <raynerd> anyone on here ever used a brushless motor and ESP ?
[22:07:48] <PCW> motorized oiugee?
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[22:19:44] <djdelorie> ESP or ESC ?
[22:20:28] <alex4nder> ESPN
[22:34:24] <ssi> lul
[22:38:45] <JT-Shop> got chips?
[22:39:04] <ssi> me? naw... not nearly enough control yet :P
[22:39:27] <JT-Shop> I ran mine with a lab power supply just to see it move
[22:39:42] <ssi> yea I've got the GE control verifying it enough to make me happy
[22:39:55] <ssi> my VFD is in place and I can run the spindle, engage each clutch
[22:40:03] <JT-Shop> cool
[22:40:08] <ssi> collet works (although it indicates backwards; collet open button closes it and vice versa)
[22:40:23] <ssi> can jog the axes
[22:40:27] <JT-Shop> air lines on backwards?
[22:40:30] <ssi> possibly
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[22:51:15] <Nick001-Shop> a command linksp FloodOn <= parport.0.pin-02-out needs to be reversed. -not or -_invert added returns an error. What needs to be done to reverse this signal. Now M9 turns it on and M8 turns it off - needs to be reversed somehow
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[23:00:06] <mazafaka> ah, damn bandsaw. Have to use it at night when others sleep
[23:00:14] <ssi> why's that
[23:00:15] <mazafaka> 6:00 AM
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[23:02:25] <jbunch-shop> what makes the value hm2_5i20.0.encoder.02.index-enable "TRUE". I am assuming that this has to be enabled for the spindle-rev to work
[23:03:01] <mazafaka> because i am a 'specialist of wide skills', I am just the one who got payed on a hourly rate, and I sometimes use wrecket tools and such, and do a lot of dirty jobs. I am graduated from the university as well - and therefore pretend to be the boss here or at another firm. And thereby, I do not need particular skills at some speciality - be it lathe or other stuff, my only purpose is to do dirty jobs.
[23:03:58] <ssi> I see
[23:05:20] <mazafaka> I use drill press, two bandsaws at a time, lathe, mill, and some weird stuff. All with a relatively high speed compared to skilled coworkers with the years of experience. Also, I work at nights sometimes.
[23:06:19] <mazafaka> I feel tired a little, and I also feel like I haven't yet slept enough to remember all the new experience I have got.
[23:07:58] <PCW> normally spindle index connects to motion.spindle-index-enable
[23:08:00] <PCW> net spindle-index motion.spindle-index-enable <= hm2_5i20.0.encoder.02.index-enable
[23:08:01] <PCW> but this is just for spindle synchronized motions, nothing to do with spindle-rev I dont think
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[23:14:42] <Nick001-Shop> how do I reverse this line: parport.0.pin-02-out
[23:14:44] <Nick001-Shop> -not and invert returns pin not found
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[23:16:05] <jbunch-shop> I have that line in my .hal file. should this be TRUE all the time? Also the hm2_5i20.0.encoder.02.counts just counts up does not reset to zero after each index pulse. Is this the correct behavior?
[23:16:22] <Nick001-Shop> BTW - got the SSR to work - robbed a 5v line from the HD power line and all the wiring worked -)
[23:19:06] <Nick001-Shop> Allen-Bradley was using 12vdc to drive the SSR's so I just substituted 5vdc
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[23:28:28] <PCW> I think it only true at certain times for spindle syncrhonized motion
[23:29:53] <ssi> oh irony
[23:30:10] <ssi> there's probably guys out there getting paid to work on machine tools and wishing they could get home to watch college basketball
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[23:30:22] <ssi> I'm getting paid to watch college basketball and I wish I could go downstairs and work on machine tools :(
[23:30:54] <Tom_itx> so put a TV downstairs
[23:31:04] <ssi> I have to monitor all the applications :P
[23:32:29] <mazafaka> applications? TV has some programs installed?
[23:32:34] <ssi> yeah, something like that
[23:33:23] <ssi> we shuffle a shitpile of data around to make an event like march madness run smoothly :P
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