#linuxcnc | Logs for 2012-03-06

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[01:27:38] <joe9> jdhnc: where did you see this? "$79, plain db25 cable, hardware stepgen to the g540 and 22? other IO's?"
[01:29:14] <jdhnc> sorry, looks like they are $89 - 5I25 mesanet card
[01:31:13] <joe9> jdhnc: i am confused and am wondering if you have any thoughts. I am planning on buying a taig package (with an ER 16 collect set). Do I still need another chuck and arbor? a guy on the internet mailing forums responded that he does not know what a chuck/arbor is and just uses ER 16.
[01:31:33] <joe9> jdhnc: alex4nder kinda mentioned that I need a chuck.
[01:32:00] <joe9> http://www.taigtools.com/2018special2.html is what I am planning on buying.
[01:32:03] <jdhnc> what does teh ER collet set attach to?
[01:32:42] <jdhnc> nevermind, the spindle has ER16
[01:33:04] <jdhnc> is that the CNC ready version with the motor mounts and couplers?
[01:33:10] <joe9> jdhnc: this was the response I received.
[01:33:13] <joe9> http://codepad.org/5JiURr8j
[01:33:24] <joe9> jdhnc: yes. the CNC ready version
[01:33:57] <joe9> these guys did get a chuck: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgiNbBciW1MrdHNraDZ3VFFHOURvTDhLcjByN2laQ0E&hl=en_US#gid=0
[01:34:07] <jdhnc> if all your tooling will fit in the included collets, you do not need the chuck and arbor
[01:34:57] <joe9> http://www.mcmaster.com/#2841a81 is my drill bit.
[01:35:04] <joe9> and I still need to find a milling bit.
[01:35:22] <alex4nder> I think you're overplanning this a bit.
[01:35:27] <jdhnc> indeed
[01:35:44] <joe9> that is 1/8 inch shank. will that fit in an ER-16 collets -- FREE set of ER16 collets ( 1/16, 1/8, 3/16, 1/4, 5/16, 3/8 )
[01:35:45] <alex4nder> you're going to get the machine, and need to spend a lot of time just getting to know it
[01:36:08] <jdhnc> there are tradeoffs in anything. The only guarantee is that you will be able to use some of what you buy, want to buy other stuff, and wonder wtf you bought some of it.
[01:36:20] <alex4nder> yup
[01:37:01] <joe9> alex4nder: did you buy a separate chuck/arbor in addition to the ER-16 stuff that are part of the package?
[01:37:03] <jdhnc> you would really only need the chuck for off-size drill bits and stuff. Standard shanks will fit fine in those collets. Even most smallish metric will hold even if they are not exact fits
[01:37:25] <joe9> jdhnc: oh, ok. chuck is more for the "off-size" stuff.
[01:37:36] <joe9> cool, thanks. that is what I was not sure of.
[01:37:52] <joe9> from my experience with the drill presses, you need a chuck and arbor to do anything.
[01:37:54] <jdhnc> and the chuck will have the same problems your drill press chuck does unless you spend a whole lot of cash for something precision.
[01:38:30] <jdhnc> the spindle has the ER-16 collet built in. A chuck is the worst solution to any problem. Much like slip-joint pliers or a crescent wrench.
[01:38:43] <joe9> jdhnc: gotcha. thanks a lot.
[01:38:43] <alex4nder> yup
[01:38:51] <alex4nder> I bought a chuck because sometimes I need to do something random.
[01:38:56] <alex4nder> usually for work that's not critical.
[01:39:07] <Tom_itx> jdhnc, those are such wonderful tools though
[01:39:12] <djdelorie> pbrobinson: installed emacs RPMs from koji on my f17 armhfp, works fine :-)
[01:39:16] <jdhnc> Sure, for things you don't care about :)
[01:39:24] <alex4nder> djdelorie: which board/chip?
[01:39:28] <djdelorie> trimslice
[01:39:39] <djdelorie> gah, wrong channel
[01:39:42] <alex4nder> haha
[01:39:48] <jdhnc> Tom_itx: today, I had a vendor suggest using a propane torch on a many-thousand dollar machine.
[01:40:03] <alex4nder> djdelorie: I just asked because I'm in the middle of getting PREEMPT_RT working on this iMX53 in front of me. ;)
[01:40:30] <jdhnc> alex4: cool!
[01:40:35] <djdelorie> if you're looking for fedora-arm help, try #fedora-arm
[01:40:48] <djdelorie> which is where that message was supposed to go...
[01:40:53] <alex4nder> oh, not at all
[01:41:14] <alex4nder> what I need help in right now is making the unsupported PMIC on this board work. ;)
[01:41:20] <alex4nder> and by help, I mean a driver.
[01:42:47] <alex4nder> oh, so something interesting.. the new iMX6 chips have PCIe, and so do the upcoming "cheap" reference boards.
[01:42:57] <Tom_itx> jdhnc, did you take him up on his suggestion?
[01:42:58] <alex4nder> which means we could potentially hook up a MESA card to them
[01:43:07] <alex4nder> and boot linuxcnc on them.
[01:43:47] <jdhnc> Tom_itx: not yet. I told him my experience was you got the torch out right before you did something that caused you to throw it away and buy a new one. He said "yep"
[01:43:57] <Tom_itx> ok i got one. when you machine (flycut or shell mill) an aluminum plate what methods do you use to prevent warpage?
[01:44:49] <jdhnc> cool it with kerosene
[01:45:13] <jdhnc> or something like that... I read some old machinest guys story on doing that a while back.
[01:45:13] <Tom_itx> 12" square approx needs to be 'flat'
[01:45:50] <Tom_itx> Mic-6 cast plate
[01:47:24] <cradek> I'm not sure it really warps much, but you've got to not distort it with your mounting scheme
[01:47:32] <jdhnc> it was an interesting article, but no clue where it was. I think it was mainly about hand-scraping.
[01:47:44] <cradek> how 'flat'?
[01:47:58] <Tom_itx> it's currently .002" out
[01:48:08] <Tom_itx> (not my project btw)
[01:49:16] <Tom_itx> and apparently that's not acceptable
[01:49:24] <cradek> if you need it much closer than .002, probably want to send it to someone with a blanchard grinder who knows what he's doing
[01:50:00] <Tom_itx> i didn't know if heat treat could fix something like that
[01:50:31] <Tom_itx> or just make it worse
[01:50:49] <cradek> worse
[01:51:15] <Tom_itx> kinda figured as much
[02:01:02] <joe9> i am unable to decide between buying http://www.kelinginc.net/NEMA23Motor.html - KL23H276-30-8B vs this package, http://www.ebay.com/itm/110831789629
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[02:01:13] <joe9> the reason being the package appears to be too good to be true.
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[02:01:31] <joe9> and, I have no experience with motors and the motor specs are similar between both.
[02:02:03] <joe9> but, not sure if the ebay package might be skimping on something important w.r.t motors.
[02:02:27] <Tom_itx> joe9, i put the keelinginc ones on mine
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[02:02:43] <joe9> Tom_itx: cool, good to know. will stick with them.
[02:02:54] <Tom_itx> on a sherline
[02:03:08] <joe9> tom_itx, which psu did you use?
[02:03:17] <Tom_itx> one i had
[02:03:18] <joe9> http://www.kelinginc.net/SwitchingPowerSupply.html ?
[02:03:24] <Tom_itx> but i have parts to make another bigger one
[02:03:57] <joe9> http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=48v+7.3a&_sacat=0&_odkw=48v+power+suppy&_osacat=0&_trksid=p3286.c0.m270.l1313
[02:04:00] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/temp/cnc/psu1.jpg
[02:04:03] <joe9> is a pretty tempting list
[02:04:05] <Tom_itx> i have 3 of those now
[02:04:11] <Tom_itx> one for each axis
[02:04:20] <Tom_itx> should be plenty of power
[02:04:51] <joe9> do you know how many watts for such motors + G540?
[02:06:51] <Tom_itx> i haven't figured it
[02:07:10] <Tom_itx> i figured my supply should get me 18A @ ~45v
[02:07:50] <Gensor2> why are the 48v power supplys plentiful
[02:08:24] <Tom_itx> iirc these transformers are 32vac but it's been a while since i messed with em
[02:08:30] <Tom_itx> i gotta get back on that project
[02:12:46] <djdelorie> Gensor2: 48v is a common supply needed for telephone switching equipment
[02:14:13] <joe9> if I am using these motors, 4.2 Amps Current Per Phase ( Bipolar Parallel) KL23H276-30-8B (1/4" Dual Shaft with flat)282 oz-in, do i have to cater for a 12.6 (= 4.2 Amps * 3) PSU?
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[02:14:34] <joe9> I see that the folks here catered for a 7.3 A PSU and I am not able to figure out why.
[02:14:47] <joe9> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgiNbBciW1MrdHNraDZ3VFFHOURvTDhLcjByN2laQ0E&hl=en_US#gid=0
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[02:17:57] <joe9> there are options for 7.3A, 10A and 12.5 A.
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[02:29:51] <jdhnc> 7.3 is fine for those.
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[05:31:44] <MattyMatt2> joe9 potentially 8.4A per motor, but that'll never happen because the DC rating of the motors is much less than the power supply voltage
[05:33:01] <MattyMatt2> so divide supply volts by motor rating volts, and use that factor to divide your (8.4x3) to get you actually peak current needs
[05:36:21] <MattyMatt2> I good microstepping driver would probably only use sqrt(2)*4.2 max when holding on a half step, which is when a motor would normally have both coils fully energised
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[05:54:05] <MattyMatt2> it's been quiet in here for hours :)
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[07:50:02] <DJ9DJ> moin
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[10:42:01] <Loetmichel> re @ home... VÖLLIG am ende ;-)
[10:47:36] <theos> cnc controller emc is totally different than emc.com :/ why did they change the name
[10:48:38] <Loetmichel> because they can?
[10:48:55] <theos> because they were forced to change i think
[10:49:16] <Loetmichel> theos: i meant emc.com
[10:49:21] <Loetmichel> "because they can"
[10:49:23] <theos> oh :/
[10:49:29] <theos> stupid lawyers
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[11:43:36] <joe9> is kelinginc a standard? they seem to be selling their floor models for motors and psu's. not sure how they compare with plain ebay stuff.
[11:43:47] <joe9> most of the motors seem to be non-branded stuff.
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[11:50:16] <jthornton> I get my stepper motors from automationdirect.com
[11:52:41] <joe9> jthornton: thanks. will check it out.
[11:53:07] <jthornton> as well as VFD's and other automation parts
[11:53:16] <joe9> meanwell psu's seem to have more features (fan control, etc.) compared to the ones sold by keling http://www.kelinginc.net/SwitchingPowerSupply.html
[11:53:39] <joe9> is that a standard feature? I cannot find more details in the specs of keling psu. just the connection details.
[11:53:48] <joe9> what is VFD?
[11:54:10] <jthornton> look for Antek power supplies, very solid build and cost effective
[11:54:18] <jthornton> Variable Frequency Drive
[11:54:19] <joe9> cool, thanks. will do.
[12:00:56] <joe9> jthornton: the antec's are a pita to pick. their website has a bunch of their model names. I do not know and do not care about their names. how do you buy their stuff? from their website or somewhere else?
[12:01:44] <joe9> i wish they had a table listing out the details behind each name oslt.
[12:02:10] <jthornton> are you sure your at the correct place
[12:02:27] <joe9> antec.com?
[12:02:46] <jthornton> nope, AnTek
[12:02:47] <joe9> http://www.antec.com/Believe_it/
[12:02:56] <joe9> oh, ok.
[12:03:00] <jthornton> http://www.antekinc.com/
[12:03:31] <jthornton> antec pays google to be on top and hijack any search that is close to their name
[12:03:35] <joe9> ok, thanks. what a difference an alphabet can make..
[12:05:28] <joe9> jthornton: they are pretty pricey.. $95/00 for something that I can buy on ebay for around $50/00, just looking at the volt and amperage.
[12:07:10] <jthornton> yea, quality solid power supplies that last the rest of your life do cost a bit more than cheap chinese junk
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[12:12:30] <joe9> jthornton: they do not seem to have the features such as fan control, etc. I cannot see it in the pic or the spec.
[12:12:38] <joe9> is that a standard feature?
[12:13:08] <jthornton> what is fan control something to cool down a cheap power supply?
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[12:20:46] <joe9> jthornton: i was comparing the antek one with this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/MW-48V-DC-7-3A-350-4W-Meanwell-Switching-Power-Supply-NES-350-48-/230752217270?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35b9e768b6
[12:20:46] <joe9> jthornton: antek psu: http://www.antekinc.com/details.php?p=185
[12:20:46] <joe9> the spec of antek psu does not even have much details.
[12:20:46] <joe9> all it says is that there are 2 big capacitors
[12:20:46] <joe9> and just lists out the voltages supported.
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[12:21:45] <jthornton> so what is fan control?
[12:22:24] <joe9> jthornton: "Built-in cooling Fan ON-OFF control", i think it switches off the fan when it gets too cold
[12:22:34] <joe9> "Forced air cooling by built-in DC fan"
[12:22:34] <jthornton> what fan?
[12:22:49] <jthornton> do you mean like a PC power supply?
[12:23:02] <joe9> i think the psu's have a fan in them.
[12:23:15] <joe9> that is what I gather from the photos.
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[12:23:50] <joe9> that circular via shaped holes on top of the psu
[12:24:04] <joe9> I am assuming they are fan openings.
[12:24:10] <jthornton> high quality toroidal transformers don't have a fan
[12:24:18] <jthornton> none is needed
[12:24:36] <joe9> oh, ok.
[12:24:52] <joe9> jthornton: how about "Protections: Short circuit / Overload / Over voltage/Over temperature"
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[12:27:03] <jthornton> a toroidal transformer power supply is probably not for you, sorry I mentioned it
[12:28:03] <joe9> jthornton: is it because of my stupidity? or, the ratings and stuff like that? if it is my stupidity, then I can learn about them.
[12:28:40] <jthornton> well your trying to compare it to something else I assume
[12:29:32] <joe9> jthornton: i just want a psu that can power the g540 and the three stepper motors. I know that the other psu can do it. I am just trying to figure out if the antek stuff can do all that the other psu is saying it can.
[12:29:47] <joe9> if the antek psu is better, I do not mind the cost.
[12:30:14] <jthornton> I don't know what your comparing it to
[12:30:30] <joe9> comparing it with this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/MW-48V-DC-7-3A-350-4W-Meanwell-Switching-Power-Supply-NES-350-48-/230752217270?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35b9e768b6
[12:30:38] <joe9> or, http://www.kelinginc.net/SwitchingPowerSupply.html
[12:30:52] <joe9> the KL-350-48 48V/7.3A
[12:32:44] <jthornton> KL- 4875 seems to be close to the one you looked at at Antek
[12:33:18] <Loetmichel> [13:24] <jthornton> high quality toroidal transformers don't have a fan <. that depends on load and surface area
[12:33:49] <jthornton> well yea if you load it more than the rating you will need a fan
[12:34:12] <joe9> jthornton: cool, thanks. do i have to worry about the over-voltage and any of the protections?
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[12:36:10] <jthornton> I put short circuit protection (a breaker or fuse) on the incoming line... but the cheap switching power supply should also work for a G540
[12:36:23] <joe9> with a psu like the KL-4875 or the antek one.
[12:36:23] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=4760 <- this medical torodials right will need active cooling if loaded to the specs. which read 230V-> 40V 20A for each
[12:36:23] <Loetmichel> overvoltage isnt critical if its not TOO much.
[12:36:23] <joe9> "Protections: Short circuit / Overload / Over voltage/Over temperature" -- temperature might not be an issue if I do not overload it
[12:36:23] <Loetmichel> just the output gets higher (and at some point the magnetic core saturates)
[12:36:28] <Loetmichel> a fuse would not be wrong, though
[12:37:24] <jthornton> I was speaking of the Antek power supplies only, I should have been specific
[12:37:41] <joe9> are the toroidal psu's more efficient than the switching psu's?
[12:38:15] <SWPadnos> toroidal vs switching isn't a valid comparison
[12:38:29] <joe9> jthornton: fuse module: http://www.antekinc.com/details.php?p=168
[12:39:16] <SWPadnos> if you're talking about a transformer+bridge rectifier, then a toroidal transformer is more efficient than a "standard" laminated transformer (I don't recall what they're called :) )
[12:39:23] <Loetmichel> joe9: no, not more efficient, but more forgiving if overloaded for short perionds of time
[12:39:25] <jthornton> that would work
[12:39:44] <Loetmichel> peak output of a torodial is minimum twice the ratet current
[12:40:05] <Loetmichel> without any damage if the transformer isnt heated above ~100°c
[12:40:24] <joe9> i plan to leave it out in the Atlanta summer. will that be a problem?
[12:40:27] <SWPadnos> but any unregulated supply (simple xfmr+rectifier) has more peak capacity than the average switching supply, as Loetmichel said
[12:40:56] <Loetmichel> SWPadnos: capacitors ++
[12:41:08] <SWPadnos> sure, there needs to be a cap somewhere :)
[12:41:42] <joe9> swpadnos: Loetmichel: I am thinking of http://www.antekinc.com/details.php?p=185 vs http://www.ebay.com/itm/MW-48V-DC-7-3A-350-4W-Meanwell-Switching-Power-Supply-NES-350-48-/230752217270?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35b9e768b6
[12:41:59] <joe9> i want the better solution. price is not much of an issue.
[12:42:28] <joe9> given the high recommendation that jthornton's places on the antek one's, I want to go with them.
[12:42:45] <joe9> just want to make sure that I am not missing something else that I might get from the regulated psu.
[12:43:51] <SWPadnos> the photo on the Antek site isn't quite right. Look at the data sheet - it's got several supplies, including a 12VDC unregulated and a 5VDC regulated supply
[12:44:09] <joe9> i know, I saw that. but, they are useless to me, I think.
[12:44:13] <Loetmichel> joe9: [majel barret voice] ....calculating.... please wait... [\majel barret voice]
[12:44:18] <SWPadnos> I would definitely get the Antek rather than the Meanwell
[12:44:20] <joe9> i will not be using the 12 VDc ond the 5VDC
[12:44:36] <SWPadnos> the 12V supply is useful for relays/contactors and that kind of stuff
[12:44:48] <SWPadnos> the 5B supply is useful for breakout boards or that kind of thing
[12:44:50] <jthornton> what are you going to use for field I/O power
[12:44:52] <SWPadnos> V
[12:45:01] <SWPadnos> anyway, have fun, see you all later
[12:45:10] <Loetmichel> joe9: i would DEFINETLY go with the torodial
[12:45:11] <jthornton> goodby
[12:45:18] <joe9> jthornton: thanks.
[12:45:33] <joe9> jthornton: thanks a lot.
[12:45:51] <jthornton> joe9: are you using a 5i25 with your G540?
[12:46:08] <joe9> no. I am just buying the G540 here:
[12:46:17] <skunkworks__> SWPadnos: !
[12:46:19] <skunkworks__> SWPadnos: !
[12:46:25] <skunkworks__> bbl ;)
[12:46:44] <joe9> jthornton: http://www.kelinginc.net/GeckorDriver.html
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[12:47:02] <joe9> jthornton: do i need a 5i25?
[12:47:03] <jthornton> ummm buy direct from Gecko
[12:47:21] <joe9> this is 240 compared to 299 on geckodrive.
[12:47:25] <joe9> $
[12:47:33] <jthornton> I see that now...
[12:47:43] <jthornton> so do you have 4 axis
[12:47:55] <joe9> no, I am just using 3 axis for now.
[12:48:10] <joe9> do not know if I will need the 4th axis later. but, not now.
[12:48:22] <joe9> just buying 3 steppers though.
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[12:49:47] <joe9> i am trying to hook these up with the http://www.taigtools.com/2018special2.html
[12:49:49] <jthornton> I would use 3 G251x's, its the same drive but you don't have to make up the shell connectors which are a PIA
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[12:50:17] <jthornton> what are you using to drive the G540?
[12:50:29] <joe9> parallel port?
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[12:50:48] <joe9> linuxcnc or emc2
[12:51:20] <jdhnc> isn't a G540 limited to 48V or something?
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[12:52:42] <jdhnc> jthornton: do you use any removeable connector between drives and motors?
[12:53:11] <joe9> i have a couple of computer psu's hanging around. can I hack them and make a better psu for the gecko drivers/steppers?
[12:53:32] <jdhnc> define 'better'
[12:53:36] <joe9> don't bother. that would be too big a task..
[12:54:01] <jthornton> jdhnc: yes steppers from AutomationDirect have connectors on them
[12:54:25] <joe9> jthornton: what about the parallel port to the G251x's?
[12:54:25] <jthornton> joe9: are you using a breakout board for your parallel port?
[12:54:44] <joe9> jthornton: no. but, I could easily have one. as I have a parallel port adapter
[12:54:52] <joe9> that can connect to a breadboard.
[12:55:16] <joe9> from the parallel port cable -> dip socket -> breadboard.
[12:55:33] <jdhnc> or p-port->cable->g540
[12:55:41] <joe9> yes.
[12:56:19] <jdhnc> you would be hard pressed to find something easier than that.
[12:57:04] <jthornton> I don't think making up the shell connectors is easy but landing wires in a terminal block is easy
[12:57:42] <joe9> i have terminal blocks too.
[12:57:59] <jdhnc> it's a one-time thing. Prepping the wire is most of the time.
[12:58:06] <jthornton> joe9: parallel port to G251x's is fine as long as you don't short out your parallel port
[12:58:44] <joe9> jthornton: what is the other option? if I don't use parallel port to G251x.
[12:59:04] <joe9> i have to manually connect the wires to each G251x from the parallel port cable, correct?
[12:59:13] <joe9> or, do I need many parallel ports?
[12:59:20] <jthornton> I used a C1G opto isolated breakout board when I used the parallel port to drive my G203v's
[12:59:20] <joe9> i have a parport card.
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[12:59:50] <joe9> if the shells are the issue, I do not mind them. I can solder them or whatever.
[12:59:51] <jthornton> If you use a PCI parallel port card then you only risk $10 replacement card
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[13:00:08] <joe9> yes, that is what I am using.
[13:00:10] <jthornton> and you are paying for a drive you may never use
[13:00:16] <joe9> pci parallel port card.
[13:01:26] <joe9> but, worrying about the C1G opto isolated board and all that takes up the same space/time.
[13:02:15] <joe9> and the G540 comes with "complete Motor Connector Set of four 9 pin modules, $299,"..
[13:02:34] <jthornton> yes, I used one because I used the onboard parallel port, with a PCI card I might not
[13:02:41] <joe9> anyone with a G540, does it have a male parallel port or female parallel port?
[13:03:38] <jthornton> using 3 G251x's you have the rest of the parallel port pins free for I/O like limit switces
[13:03:55] <jthornton> and spindle on/off
[13:04:45] <jthornton> looking at the photo it is female
[13:05:13] <joe9> my cable is a female - to - female, I think.
[13:06:17] <joe9> "DB25 Extension Cable, Male-Fem" is my cable.
[13:09:53] <MattyMatt2> my 4axis boards have male sockets
[13:10:27] <joe9> http://www.geckodrive.com/g540-digital-axis-motor-control-p-39.html , the pic here seems to look like all female ports there.
[13:10:35] <MattyMatt2> and most of my cables are male to female
[13:10:42] <MattyMatt2> yep it does, PITA
[13:11:10] <MattyMatt2> that'd be enough to make me reject that board
[13:11:26] <MattyMatt2> and get a cheap chinese $50 4 axis instead :)
[13:11:35] <MattyMatt2> TB6560 ftw
[13:12:05] <joe9> jthornton: with the breakout board, do you have the schematics for it?
[13:12:29] <joe9> or, is it just a simple connection of all the same wires between the Gecko G251x's.
[13:12:30] <jthornton> cnc4pc.com
[13:12:35] <joe9> thanks.
[13:12:55] <MattyMatt2> what kind of machine are you building? these chinese ones work for me, and I'm working on modding them to work great
[13:12:58] <jthornton> if your using a PCI card just cut the end off your cable
[13:13:31] <jthornton> all you ever see is how fast a TB6560 will let the magic smoke out
[13:13:57] <MattyMatt2> if you put 48V into them that's true
[13:14:11] <jthornton> or 24v or...
[13:14:12] <joe9> MattyMatt2: i read too many horror stories about TB6560. I want to stick with something that will work out of the box, without issues.
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[13:14:22] <joe9> I do not have the skills to debug if something goes wrong.
[13:14:41] <joe9> that is the main reason i am sticking with the gecko stuff.
[13:15:07] <joe9> jthornton: to control the spindle and things like that, what would I have to connect the parport signal line to?
[13:15:47] <joe9> MattyMatt2: i am not saying that all the TB's are bad. I just do not have the skills to troubleshoot, if something goes wrong.
[13:15:58] <MattyMatt2> chinese board has a spindle relay onboard already :)
[13:16:20] <jthornton> something like this http://www.cnc4pc.com/Store/osc/product_info.php?cPath=24&products_id=50
[13:16:39] <jthornton> and the chinese boards are junk
[13:16:47] <MattyMatt2> the max stepping rate is crap on an unmodded board tho. that's a real issue that needs fixing
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[13:19:42] <MattyMatt2> for 2A motors and lower, pololus are pretty good. tiny little dip modules for $12
[13:21:54] <MattyMatt2> they have inadequate heatsinking tho, so that's not ideal for a heavy duty machine
[13:23:14] <joe9> jthornton: what about the connectors from the Antek psu to the gecko boards?
[13:24:53] <MattyMatt2> that female DB-25 would be enough to put me off tho. If I was paying for geckos I'd get single motor ones and strip one end of the parport cable down into a harness
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[13:26:05] <MattyMatt2> I imagine it's annoying to have a 4 axis board with 1 or 2 blown axis
[13:26:24] <joe9> MattyMatt2: and, how would you connect the harness to the individual gecko's?
[13:26:37] <joe9> good point about a blown axis.
[13:27:44] <MattyMatt2> strip a few inches from the parport cable, and run the relevant wires to each stepper
[13:28:29] <MattyMatt2> hopefully your cable will have 8 gnd wires, so there's plenty for one each for the drivers
[13:28:34] <jthornton> you just run wires from the power supply terminal block to the 251 terminal block
[13:28:40] <joe9> http://www.cnc4pc.com/Store/osc/product_info.php?products_id=49 is $40
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[13:28:56] <joe9> jthornton: thanks.
[13:29:14] <joe9> MattyMatt2: so, I do not need to bother with the above C1G card.
[13:30:22] <MattyMatt2> not really, if you don't mind a captive wire
[13:30:35] <joe9> parallel port cable -> 3 Gecko G251x's -> nema 23 motors. antek psu -> 3 gecko G251x.
[13:30:57] <joe9> MattyMatt2: "captive wire" == "loose wire"?
[13:31:32] <joe9> jthornton: thanks for helping me through with this design.
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[13:32:38] <MattyMatt2> if you do it the way I describe, the wire will be attached to the drivers, and you'd need to clamp it to the board your drivers are attached to, for strain releif
[13:33:04] <joe9> makes sense. thanks.
[13:33:37] <jthornton> np
[13:33:59] <joe9> jthornton: why don't you use keling? why automation direct?
[13:34:55] <jthornton> I buy way more from Automation Direct than steppers
[13:37:37] <joe9> jthornton, I am thinking of these motors: http://www.kelinginc.net/NEMA23Motor.html "KL23H276-30-8B"
[13:37:47] <joe9> jthornton: wondering if you would recommend something else.
[13:38:40] <MattyMatt2> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Nema-23-stepper-motor-435-oz-in-4-2A-4-leads-2-phase-Longs-Stepper-Motor-/270925870477
[13:38:55] * MattyMatt2 king of cheap
[13:38:56] <joe9> jthornton: http://codepad.org/I9YbMoml
[13:39:26] <jthornton> over the past 20 years or so I've spent 10-15k at automation direct and have come to trust them and their products
[13:40:19] <joe9> jthornton: they do not sell the G251x. I could not find it on their website.
[13:40:30] <jthornton> who?
[13:40:37] <joe9> automationdirect.com
[13:41:19] <jthornton> no, I would get them from keling
[13:41:45] <MattyMatt2> http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-axis-4-lead-Nema-23-stepper-motor-425oz-3A-driver-CNC-ROUTER-CE-ROSH-/260968420014
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[13:42:05] <archivist> kidz, why why why why
[13:42:16] <MattyMatt2> joe9 is this your money you're spending or your bosses?
[13:42:22] <joe9> my money.
[13:42:26] <joe9> my time too.
[13:42:37] <jthornton> to save on shipping I'd get my steppers from keling, they seem to be the same as AD
[13:42:55] <joe9> jthornton: ok, cool. thanks.
[13:42:57] <jthornton> dunno about a dual shaft though, might get in the way
[13:44:08] <MattyMatt2> arrgh joe9 I'm confusing you with someone in brazil, so yeah you should try and buy in US
[13:44:12] <jthornton> and remember that holding torque only means how hard it tries to stay still not how much torque it has at any given speed
[13:44:29] <joe9> jthornton: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgiNbBciW1MrdHNraDZ3VFFHOURvTDhLcjByN2laQ0E&hl=en_US#gid=0
[13:44:38] <joe9> I am trying to follow those guys
[13:44:49] <joe9> and, they bought those dual-shaft motors.
[13:45:04] <jthornton> why did they use dual shaft motors?
[13:45:14] <joe9> don't know why. maybe, for use other than this, if ever needed?
[13:45:20] <MattyMatt2> I buy dual shaft out of habit, you never know when it's be handy
[13:45:21] <joe9> i am assuming.
[13:45:40] <joe9> yes, that is what I thought. have more than less, I presume.
[13:45:54] <joe9> same price, too.
[13:45:58] <jthornton> or they just get in your way and tangle up on stuff
[13:46:12] <joe9> that could be an issue.
[13:48:21] <MattyMatt2> ah $2k machine, yeah go for geckos
[13:48:38] <jthornton> bbl or see you out in the shop later
[13:49:14] <MattyMatt2> l8rs
[13:50:41] <joe9> MattyMatt2: what is "18rs"?
[13:53:09] <MattyMatt2> laterz, d00d!
[13:53:44] <MattyMatt2> subenglish for the SMS generation
[14:01:39] <vin321> any 1 played with this stuff http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Aspen-Aerogel-SPACELOFT-Insulation-Hydrophobic-Mat-Per-Square-Foot-/170783940556?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27c3841fcc
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[14:07:01] <MattyMatt2> they also sell anothe "best insulator on the market" the pyrogel mat which isn't so flexible but can take high temps too
[14:07:43] <MattyMatt2> that's more like $30 per square foot
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[14:08:31] <MattyMatt2> what do you want to insulate?
[14:09:31] <Loetmichel> MattyMatt2: i wold have tought of massive glas as best high temperatuire insulator
[14:09:45] <Loetmichel> followd by Teflon for medium temp ;-)
[14:10:02] <MattyMatt2> aerogel is just glass really :)
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[14:10:26] <Loetmichel> MattyMatt2: more like sand
[14:10:35] <Loetmichel> ists a ceramic, not a glass iirc
[14:10:47] <Loetmichel> alumina or similar
[14:11:03] <Loetmichel> but you menat THERMAL insulator, didnt you?
[14:11:18] <Loetmichel> meant
[14:11:28] <Loetmichel> not electric
[14:11:29] <vin321> in thinking a sleeping bag
[14:11:30] <MattyMatt2> silica aerogel is the commonest, and what Aspen use in their Pyrogel mat
[14:11:51] <Loetmichel> MattyMatt2: so its more or les "sand" ;-)
[14:12:25] <MattyMatt2> ew, it'll be a skin irritant vin321, no good for a sleeping gab
[14:12:50] <MattyMatt2> glass fibres, and dust whenever you flex it
[14:13:09] <Loetmichel> vin321: sleeping bag would be possible, but only with a skin out of something watertight
[14:13:17] <Loetmichel> and particletioght
[14:13:23] <Loetmichel> particle tight
[14:14:00] <MattyMatt2> you could line the back of a pickup, and sleep in that
[14:14:15] <MattyMatt2> covered wagon
[14:14:45] <MattyMatt2> it'd make a good lightweight roof with a rigid skin
[14:15:23] <Loetmichel> hmm, the ebay ad makes a substantial error: you NEVER insulate a house from the INSIDE
[14:15:32] <vin321> i was thinking 1 could make a hammok that would in its self be the sleeping bag
[14:15:52] <MattyMatt2> Loetmichel, most people do, if they retrofit
[14:16:04] <Loetmichel> 'cause the walls underneath the insulation will condense the ait humidity
[14:16:13] <Loetmichel> and then you get black spores all over
[14:16:33] <Loetmichel> s/ait/air
[14:17:06] <Loetmichel> the dew point sould be somwere outside the brickwörk, not inside
[14:18:26] <Loetmichel> so the cold air outside( whcih dont hold much water) will be the only thing that COULD condese (if it wouldnt be heated from the walls rather than cooled)
[14:19:15] <Loetmichel> ... one of the first things hre in germany a insulation worker learns: OUTSIDE insulate!
[14:19:31] <Loetmichel> it IS possible to insuilate the inside without getting mould.
[14:19:46] <vin321> http://www.aerogel.com/products/pdf/Pyrogel_2250_DS.pdf
[14:20:03] <MattyMatt2> it depends on the building. in US they have a lot of hollow wooden walls
[14:20:22] <Loetmichel> but its much more work, yoou need steam barriers at the right points, outside air going though between insulatio and bricks and so on
[14:20:49] <Loetmichel> MattyMatt2: which are insulationg by themselfs to a certain point
[14:21:17] <MattyMatt2> in UK we all have 2 rows of bricks with an air gap, the outside ones are dried by the wind, the inside ones by heat from inside, so isulation should go in the gap
[14:22:38] <Loetmichel> MattyMatt2: i have seen this walls over here also
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[14:22:42] <Loetmichel> works
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[14:23:19] <Loetmichel> but lets better not talk about the americen "1:1 carboard models of a house"
[14:23:21] <Loetmichel> ;-)
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[14:24:38] <MattyMatt2> *cough*HANSE HAUS
[14:25:33] <Loetmichel> *google*
[14:25:54] <Loetmichel> *cough**cough**cough**cough**cough**cough*
[14:26:46] <MattyMatt2> Hof Haus was the famous one I was looking for. there's a lot of that flat pack housing in germany
[14:27:17] <Loetmichel> is there ANYTHING from america that doesend get "trendy" in the old world, even if its proven shit?
[14:27:39] <joe9> anyone with experience using this: http://medw.co.uk/wiki/index.php?page=CNC+Probe
[14:28:03] <MattyMatt2> Hof Haus have a good reputation in UK, but mostly because "we" hate builders
[14:28:20] <joe9> http://phk.freebsd.dk/CncPcb/
[14:28:50] <Loetmichel> joe9: looks like a simple "6 ball" probe
[14:28:59] <JT-Shop> joe9: http://www.wildhorse-innovations.com/index.php?_a=viewCat&catId=17
[14:29:01] <Loetmichel> you can build one of that yourself
[14:29:29] <joe9> ok, cool. thanks.
[14:29:50] <MattyMatt2> I'd rather spend my time making a jig that holds a pcb level
[14:30:01] <Loetmichel> MattyMatt2: right
[14:30:20] <Loetmichel> be it some old wood and 2 stips of carpet tape ;-)
[14:30:25] <Loetmichel> strips
[14:30:45] <MattyMatt2> well seasoned wood, you want repeatabilty :)
[14:30:58] <MattyMatt2> or you could simply mill it flat every few weeks
[14:31:01] <Loetmichel> (glue the wood to the work area, get a wide miiil bit, plane the woold, gluie the PCB to it
[14:31:02] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[14:31:18] <joe9> Loetmichel: good idea. thanks.
[14:31:35] <Loetmichel> ( or use plastics, like me) ;-)
[14:32:07] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12811
[14:32:14] <joe9> Loetmichel: "wide mill bit" -- any recommendations for that, please?
[14:32:21] <MattyMatt2> I'd use MDF. sacrificial surfaces is the only good use for that
[14:32:41] <joe9> I am a newbie with milling, hence the question.
[14:33:01] <Loetmichel> ( its a 2 component PU resin, so if its milled to much down, i simply take some duct tape around and refill... wait 20 mins, plane, -> ready to go ;-)
[14:33:16] <MattyMatt2> the widest one that will fit in your spindle. with an ER16 collet you can go up to around 11mm iirc
[14:33:23] <joe9> ok, thanks.
[14:33:31] <Loetmichel> MattyMatt2: i did , too, but MDF and water/Cooling fluid donts mix well ;-)
[14:33:59] <Loetmichel> joe9: what size can your collet grip?
[14:34:27] <Loetmichel> the wood router bits come with 8mm shaft over here and up to 40 mm wide heads
[14:34:37] <joe9> collets ( 1/16, 1/8, 3/16, 1/4, 5/16, 3/8 ), 2 End mills (1/8 & 3/16 inch) is what I have.
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[14:34:51] <joe9> ER16 collets.
[14:35:36] <Loetmichel> [converting to mm]
[14:35:55] <MattyMatt2> good point wood router bits. I have a set of 8mm shank ones I can use in my ER16 too
[14:36:03] <Loetmichel> ah, 10 mm
[14:36:08] <Loetmichel> biggest
[14:36:36] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=4378 <- my biggest, 40mm diameter
[14:36:47] <Loetmichel> (behind the grey vacuum hose
[14:37:40] <MattyMatt2> 20mm is the largest I have
[14:38:07] <Loetmichel> joe9: it all depends on the size if your work area
[14:38:30] <MattyMatt2> that taig minimill is 12" X
[14:38:34] <MattyMatt2> 30cm
[14:39:27] <Loetmichel> if you have only ~8"*5" like me a 1/4" router bit is sufficient fopr planing the surface
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[14:41:01] <Loetmichel> if you have 60" by 40" like my old machine you would be grandpa 'til its ready flatening the sacifical plate
[14:42:07] <MattyMatt2> the largest endmill I can use currently is 3mm, on a 16x13" area :)
[14:42:34] <MattyMatt2> and I'd have to do it twice, because the tool would be shorter by the end
[14:43:09] <Loetmichel> harhar
[14:43:22] <Loetmichel> use carbide mill bits ;-)
[14:43:52] <MattyMatt2> I have ER16 collets on 8mm straight shanks to make better spindles
[14:44:13] <MattyMatt2> so I can start buying proper tooling instead of miniature stuff
[14:44:34] <MattyMatt2> a cood 6 or 8mm endmill costs no more than a good 3mm one
[14:44:43] <MattyMatt2> ^good
[14:45:21] <MattyMatt2> my 3mm carbide one has lasted well. still sharp 2 years later
[14:45:39] <Loetmichel> the 1/8" TC mill bits arent THAT expensive over here
[14:45:51] <MattyMatt2> €11 iirc for mine
[14:46:02] <Loetmichel> ive payed about 2 eur per piece last time i ordered a pack
[14:46:05] <MattyMatt2> made in france
[14:46:31] <Loetmichel> and about 25 Eur for the 2 6mm bits
[14:46:41] <MattyMatt2> yeah I get cheap chinese ones too, but this french one has lasted well
[14:46:55] <Loetmichel> ahem... "made in germany"
[14:47:50] <MattyMatt2> ah my 4 flute was british, but it's OK :)
[14:47:51] <Loetmichel> ... directly from the manufacturer and in 50-packs ;-)
[14:49:15] <MattyMatt2> smallest pcb mills I get are 0.8mm. I've not found smaller cheap on ebay
[14:50:35] <MattyMatt2> I don't do PCB yet tho. my mill is still too floppy
[14:50:57] <MattyMatt2> massive chatter if I don't keep everything slow
[14:51:16] <MattyMatt2> and the spindle speed high
[14:56:40] <Loetmichel> MattyMatt2: the smallest pcb mill bits i have are 0,4mm
[14:56:52] <Loetmichel> and the smallest drills are 0,2mm ;-)
[14:56:55] <Loetmichel> TC
[14:57:12] <Loetmichel> better NOR coughing near the machine if they are in the collet ;-)
[14:57:15] <Loetmichel> NOT
[14:59:50] <Loetmichel> for our imerial frriends: thats 1/64" i.e. 1/128"
[15:00:05] <Loetmichel> imperial
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[15:09:07] <MattyMatt2> getting PCBs made is so cheap these days, but it'd be nice to be able to mill prototypes
[15:10:59] <Loetmichel> MattyMatt2: geht a hi speed spindle
[15:11:04] <Loetmichel> minimum 20kRPM
[15:11:14] <Loetmichel> and PRECISE bearings in it
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[15:12:53] <Loetmichel> i have bought a cheap chinese 800W 200V ac brushless watercooled spindle. cant be compared to the (not SO bad) Proxxon BFW40 before that: its not only out of league, its a whole other GAME ;-)
[15:14:02] <djdelorie> Loetmichel: your imperial friends use mils, not those silly fractions ;-)
[15:14:14] <Loetmichel> hrhr
[15:15:08] <Loetmichel> djdelorie: the ones who use mils are used to convert it to mm so i thouhgt they are able to do the conversion themselve ;-)
[15:15:22] <djdelorie> good point
[15:18:20] <Loetmichel> what i meant to say: a two flute mill bit made of (brittle) Tungsten carbide witth 0,4mm diamater depends on a spindle mit a perfect "rundlauf" (the english word anyone?) or it will be a VERY short fun
[15:18:30] <Loetmichel> *knack*
[15:18:32] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[15:18:49] <cradek> runout
[15:19:00] <Loetmichel> txp
[15:19:03] <Loetmichel> thx
[15:20:46] <Loetmichel> sorry for ma worse than usual english. i just have completed a roundtrip Frankfurt/main-> kiel -> ferry to Klaipeda -> vilnius and back to frankfurt in a mercedes E-class caravan since saturday 12o-clock.
[15:21:10] <Loetmichel> i was back around 11:00 today...
[15:21:54] <Loetmichel> (got NOT much sleeb, maybe 6 hours on the ferry (BAD bed, hard like sone) and 2 hours in a hotel in vilnius...
[15:22:12] <Loetmichel> on sunday night
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[15:22:55] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12919 <- display of the mercedes after arriving today ... tired as hell :-(
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[15:38:07] <MattyMatt2> 260kph in a van? :)
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[15:38:32] <MattyMatt2> is that speedo promising things it can't deliver
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[15:39:46] <MattyMatt2> Loetmichel the spindle I'm making will use the best all-metal 608s I can afford
[15:40:04] <MattyMatt2> if I was doing pcbs I'd be tempted to use ceramic ones
[15:40:14] <MattyMatt2> but not for general milling
[15:40:38] <Loetmichel> MattyMatt2: it can deliver.
[15:40:48] <Loetmichel> ok, at 250kph it will lock
[15:40:53] <Loetmichel> "abgeregelt"
[15:41:02] <Loetmichel> but its a diesel ;-)
[15:41:09] <MattyMatt2> I need a van, but not speeding tickets
[15:41:26] <Loetmichel> its not a van
[15:41:51] <Loetmichel> this car: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12916
[15:41:56] <Loetmichel> bottom left
[15:42:14] <MattyMatt2> ah I thought E Class was the transit-sided minibus
[15:42:26] <MattyMatt2> transit-sized
[15:42:43] <Loetmichel> no, eclass ist in between c-class and s-class
[15:42:46] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[15:43:08] <Loetmichel> what you mean is a "vito"
[15:43:28] <MattyMatt2> I want a double deck bus myself. machine shop downstairs. living quarters upstairs
[15:44:42] <MattyMatt2> that's just silly I guess, but I want to move away from here and take my machines
[15:44:56] <Loetmichel> and i can assure you: the E230 turbo diesel is capable of at least 210 kph, filled wiht half a ton of military computers ;-)
[15:45:04] <Loetmichel> (dont ask how i know ;-)
[15:45:30] <MattyMatt2> persued by soviet forces?
[15:45:31] <Loetmichel> winter tyres, limited to 210kph at the moment
[15:45:51] <Loetmichel> no, wanted to sleep in my own bed ;-)
[15:46:02] <Loetmichel> you HAVE seen the display in the speedo?
[15:46:39] <MattyMatt2> yep 105 avg
[15:47:08] <MattyMatt2> I live <1km from a motorway
[15:47:30] <MattyMatt2> so I can do that avg to most places that are also near a motorway
[15:47:42] <MattyMatt2> without getting a ticket
[15:47:47] <Loetmichel> and 1718km nearly nonstop
[15:48:16] <MattyMatt2> you can lose your licence for driving while tired now
[15:48:22] <Loetmichel> in 16 and a half hours
[15:48:41] <MattyMatt2> take the wife next time :)
[15:49:10] <MattyMatt2> they like days out, I hear
[15:49:17] <Loetmichel> hrhr
[15:49:32] <Loetmichel> this was a company car
[15:50:30] <Loetmichel> and the way back was about 700km though poland on overland streets. NOT motorways
[15:50:56] <Loetmichel> luckyly my boss was with me on the way back
[15:51:21] <Loetmichel> HE got caught in some village with about 86 kph
[15:51:43] <Loetmichel> polish tickets are chep: he payed 200 zloty and done with it
[15:52:15] <Loetmichel> alone i wouldnt lived to tell the story, i had slept 2.5 hrs the day before.
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[15:52:46] <Loetmichel> my boss and i had changed drivers seats after 5 hrs in luteinia
[15:53:02] <Loetmichel> so he drove through poland and i drove in germany
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[15:53:25] <MattyMatt2> lots of people want to mill pcb on their repraps, but of them aren't rigid enough
[15:53:38] <Loetmichel> lucky me that i can sleep in ANY car with ANDY driver
[15:53:40] <MattyMatt2> and they're all belt drive, so terrible accuracy
[15:54:01] <Loetmichel> MattyMatt2: the other way around is possible
[15:54:10] <Loetmichel> : a reprap extruder on a mill
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[15:54:30] <MattyMatt2> yeah but then you've got terrible speed, unless it's servos etc
[15:54:48] <MattyMatt2> steppers+leadscrews = slow, however you slice it
[15:54:53] <Loetmichel> hmmm
[15:55:08] <Loetmichel> i've got up to 100mm/s on the big wone
[15:55:10] <MattyMatt2> unless it's 5-phase steppers and high pitch screws
[15:55:11] <Loetmichel> one
[15:55:24] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=4935
[15:55:34] <Loetmichel> 100mm/s on x, 70mm/s on y
[15:55:36] <MattyMatt2> yeah somebody has his reprap moving 725mm/s with custom electronics
[15:56:03] <Loetmichel> and the limiting factor WASNT the steppers
[15:56:14] <djdelorie> wait... nearly a meter per second?
[15:56:25] <Loetmichel> but the LOOOONG leadscrews with 16mm diamater
[15:56:38] <Loetmichel> got in resonance at 70mm/s
[15:56:47] <Loetmichel> djdelorie: so what?
[15:56:51] <MattyMatt2> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8i8Jy80wNU
[15:57:02] * djdelorie is trying to imagine my cnc machine moving that fast...
[15:57:16] <Loetmichel> not a problem with a lightweight print head and belt drive
[15:57:43] <MattyMatt2> print head has a 400g stepper. it's not negligable
[15:57:56] <Loetmichel> it is
[15:58:27] <Loetmichel> you can mount the stepper in the frame and use a "bowden tube" construction to feed the heater/nozzle
[15:58:37] <MattyMatt2> it's massy enough to make the frame wobble. that's the main limit on these reprap mendels
[15:58:39] <Loetmichel> btdt
[15:59:08] <Jymmm> Hola!
[15:59:18] <jdhnc> que tal?
[15:59:28] <MattyMatt2> bowden tubes are hard to use because you can't control the pressure in the nozzle easily
[15:59:33] <Jymmm> Frito Pie!
[16:01:34] <MattyMatt2> is toothed belt stepper drive terrible accuracy or terrible precision? I think I should have said precision meaning resolution
[16:02:24] <MattyMatt2> belts stretch and whip, so they're low accuracy too :)
[16:03:38] <djdelorie> hmmm... belt drive, but put an encoder on the gantry?
[16:03:57] <Loetmichel> MattyMatt2: wrong belt
[16:04:10] <Loetmichel> get one with glass fibre reinforcement instad of steel wire
[16:04:17] <Loetmichel> thes stretch near to nothing
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[16:08:39] <Loetmichel> question: waht is "blue tape"?
[16:08:46] <Loetmichel> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rv-_JGiip68&feature=related
[16:08:51] <Jymmm> It's low stick painters tape
[16:08:56] <Loetmichel> ah!
[16:08:59] <Loetmichel> thx
[16:09:10] <Jymmm> It's lke masking tape, but low stick and expensive I think
[16:09:15] <Jymmm> *like
[16:09:52] <jdhnc> it's blue masking tape
[16:11:17] <JT-Shop> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvhvQu5Xxtk
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[16:18:09] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: cool enough video. I'm surprised they can make parts that well
[16:20:32] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Cool, got it going huh?
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[16:23:14] <JT-Shop> that was when I first built it, all back together now except one minor problem
[16:25:44] <Jymmm> cool beans!
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[16:43:34] <MattyMatt2> repraps are getting pretty good quality these days, as good as Stratasys fdm machines
[16:45:50] <MattyMatt2> mm plasma. I'd swap my reprap for one of those :0
[16:47:57] <MattyMatt2> djdelorie, encoders would add too much to the cost of these repraps, and most people don't have a machine shop to make them in
[16:49:08] <MattyMatt2> there's a magnetic strip absolute encoder available for $50 but I don't know anyone who's bothered with it
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[17:13:11] <MattyMatt2> djdelorie, have you heard of anyone importing gEDA sysmbols into 3d cad packages (by which I really mean blender)
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[17:14:50] <MattyMatt2> I'm devising a mechanical parts lib and it seems a shame to separate mechanical and electronic parts arbitrarily :)
[17:15:20] <MattyMatt2> mech parts have electrical properties & vice versa
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[17:16:59] <djdelorie> pcb has crude XYRS export, but none of our footprints have mechanical models in them
[17:18:35] <MattyMatt2> Ah I thought they did have the option for simple 3d depictions
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[17:20:49] <archivist> kicad can do a 3d visualisation as well as circuits/pcb
[17:21:13] <MattyMatt2> can it use the gEDA symbol lib?
[17:21:17] <djdelorie> yeah, you were probably thinking of kicad
[17:21:41] <MattyMatt2> it's the symbol lib that matters more than the program in the long run
[17:22:19] <MattyMatt2> I guess convertors are easy enough to write usually
[17:22:24] <djdelorie> geda and kicad both use documented text formats for their libraries, a converter shouldn't be difficult
[17:22:28] <archivist> you end up creating symbols in any sytem
[17:22:30] <MattyMatt2> or importers, in blender etc
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[17:23:24] <MattyMatt2> I'd pretty much settled on gEDA for hoarding and creating new ones
[17:23:49] <djdelorie> yay geda :-) (/me is biased ;)
[17:24:21] * archivist giggles, I created the freenode #kiccad chan
[17:25:10] <MattyMatt2> I have to say, it's your involvment played a big part in the decision. I still appreciate djgpp
[17:25:17] <djdelorie> :-)
[17:26:04] * djdelorie is djgpp on #geda on OFTC, and runs geda-project.org and gedasymbols.org :-)
[17:26:10] * djdelorie is REALLY biased...
[17:27:17] <MattyMatt2> I was struggling with gschem when I saw your name and realised "ah, I REALLY gotta rtfm. the solution will be there somewhere"
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[17:28:03] <MattyMatt2> that was Eli's favourite saying on comp.os.msdos.djgpp
[17:28:13] <MattyMatt2> what's he doing these days?
[17:28:56] <MattyMatt2> newsgroups ain't what they used to be
[17:29:07] <djdelorie> I don't know what he's doing for work, but he's still active in gdb development
[17:29:57] <MattyMatt2> nice
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[17:31:18] <MattyMatt2> I need more junk in my pile. I can't get a potentiometer here without destrying either a good car stereo or a good casette deck
[17:32:26] <MattyMatt2> it's the car stereo. fie on motorists
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[17:33:52] <MattyMatt2> aargh damn thing doesn't have a proper volume knob
[17:34:28] <MattyMatt2> heh jonrafkind came in from #allegro to say hello :) he was too shy
[17:35:07] <MattyMatt2> that's where the allegro games lib lives now #allegro here on freenode
[17:35:35] <MattyMatt2> the new version doesn't work on dos tho
[17:36:01] <MattyMatt2> it's more of a wrapper to iron out the difference between DX & OGL now
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[17:37:41] <MattyMatt2> and to provide window handling and input in a cross-platform way
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[17:38:27] <MattyMatt2> but all allegro people grew up on djgpp :) lotsa fans of yours in there
[17:41:55] <MattyMatt2> I admit I've wondered if emc2 could be ported to djgpp. you don't get better realtime performance than no kernel
[17:42:53] <MattyMatt2> run it all from hardware interupts
[17:44:19] <MattyMatt2> probably avoid file access during real-time operations, and dpmi would need inspection to qualify it for real time use
[17:48:54] <MattyMatt2> it'd only be practical with a tcp/ip stack probably. to run the gui on another machine. that'd kill the realtime simplicity
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[18:00:37] <mozmck> Interesting re kicad vs geda. I tried PCB once and couldn't even *start* making a board! Admittedly I was a rank beginner, but I made my first board in a couple weekends of spare time using kicad. I had never used a schematic capture or board layout program before that.
[18:00:47] <mozmck> bbl
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[18:04:08] <djdelorie> mozmck: we have better tutorials now :-)
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[18:08:46] <IchGuckLive> hi all around the globe
[18:08:56] <DJ9DJ> hi livegucker
[18:09:20] <IchGuckLive> Superthuseday in the USA Tax for Metal work expected if REPs come in ! O.o
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[18:28:44] <JT-Shop> Cool! Andy's boat is in second place atm...
[18:30:24] <Tom_itx> ha nice
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[18:30:49] <Tom_itx> if it's a sailboat he should be here today
[18:31:00] <Tom_itx> 45mph gusts here
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[18:37:18] <IchGuckLive> is he sailing in a race live on Air ?
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[18:49:24] <Deuplonicus> is there a test axis elsewhere than in the stepconfig wizard?
[18:50:39] <archivist> you can use mdi or manual jogging in axis
[18:51:34] <IchGuckLive> Deuplonicus: what woudt you like to test
[18:52:51] <JT-Shop> IchGuckLive: http://www.clipperroundtheworld.com/index.php/follow/race-viewer/
[18:52:55] <jdhnc> the back and forth repeat testing thing in stepconf is nice.
[18:53:03] <JT-Shop> Deuplonicus: no, there is just one per axis
[18:54:04] <IchGuckLive> JT-Shop: no german in the race shit
[18:54:45] <archivist> he's is in second place :)
[18:55:22] <Deuplonicus> I'm trying to trouble shoot, my gantry has two motors as most, one is moving when testing and the other is not, they are both assigned to the same pins on the stepconf wizard
[18:55:44] <Deuplonicus> the one that isn't moving, is acting like it is "stopped", it'ss hard to spin
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[18:57:16] <IchGuckLive> wirering checked
[18:57:26] <joe99> I am trying to decide between Gecko G540 $240 vs 3 * Gecko G251's (3 * $80 = $240). It appears that for the price, Geck G540 > 3 * G251. Would you concur?
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[18:57:55] <Deuplonicus> checking wire, found out why the freely spinning x-axis isn't moving. checking the other gantry motor next
[18:57:57] <jdhnc> 540 has 4 axis, breakout for inputs, spindle control, all in a nice frame.
[18:58:15] <IchGuckLive> joe99 =joe9
[18:58:45] <joe99> ichgucklive, yes
[18:58:46] <IchGuckLive> joe99: go for leadshine
[18:59:28] <joe99> ichgucklive: for this m/c, I am looking for something that will just work. For the next m/c, I will go with the alternatives.
[19:00:20] <joe99> jdhnc, The G540 has 4 * G250's. It appears that for that proce, the G540 is a no-brainer.
[19:00:32] <joe99> s/proce/price/
[19:01:02] <IchGuckLive> on your place with more expected i woudt not go for gecko leadshine is what you need M542 as miin and on my oppinion as you want to go futher M880
[19:03:03] <jdhnc> Ich: I know nothing of Leadshine, but I disagree.
[19:05:48] <IchGuckLive> ok i got lots of trouble with the G540 i decidet to lock of to TB6560 and after price got down to leadshine M34
[19:06:28] <IchGuckLive> with 24USD on 1stage that fits the parport and the lm23c355 asrosys
[19:06:31] <jdhnc> oh, that is different. I've never used one. You are the first I have ever heard of with a problem though.
[19:07:19] <IchGuckLive> agree on that gecko told me to go over 110 volts insted of 230 V
[19:07:22] <JT-Shop> http://www.geckodrive.com/ark-2/support.html?pid=15&id=20
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[19:08:19] <jdhnc> why would gecko care if you used 110/230?
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[19:09:49] <joe99> I need a fan with a G540?
[19:10:07] <IchGuckLive> on the HU that pulses the 48V
[19:11:04] <jdhnc> HU?
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[19:13:53] <jdhnc> I only see two places to buy leadshine, they both look suspicious
[19:16:00] <joe99> any suggestions for a vacuum plate?
[19:16:16] <jdhnc> I suggest you wait on a vacuum plate.
[19:16:16] <joe99> I was initially thinking of buying these mounting plates.
[19:16:43] <joe99> I think I'm gonna build a better one- Danny $92 Matrix Plate http://www.hightechsystemsllc.com/pt_plate_18.html Gonna build a better one $40 MWHS cams/bars kit http://www.hightechsystemsllc.com/pt_work_holding_system.html but we don't want that plate, we want the bigger one above, but they don't list the price for the fitting kit without the plate or with the bigger plate- call 'em. Order both together
[19:17:29] <joe99> for holding down the pcb.
[19:17:53] <joe99> someone recommended that I checkout vacuum table or vacuum plate.
[19:18:01] <jdhnc> fine for etching, need spoilboard for drilling though.
[19:18:43] <joe99> the mounting plates, you mean?
[19:18:47] <jdhnc> yes
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[19:21:08] <Deuplonicus> yay, fixed my X-axis, got it running back and forth, it was a loose wire from the wire terminal
[19:21:15] <Deuplonicus> now to fix my other gantry motor.....
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[19:22:00] <joe99> jdhnc, do you use a vacuum table?
[19:22:34] <jdhnc> no, I use tape, bolts, washers, pieces of MDF, clamps, plexiglass, crap off the floor, etc.
[19:23:54] <IchGuckLive> Deuplonicus: isugeest the wire B)
[19:24:27] <joe99> haha.. hardcore stuff stuff..
[19:24:30] <IchGuckLive> jdhnc: thats what it looks like here 2
[19:26:14] <Deuplonicus> checking B
[19:26:15] <Deuplonicus> haha
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[19:27:31] <IchGuckLive> Deuplonicus: dont go to hard on rotarys
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[19:28:40] <Deuplonicus> rotarys?
[19:29:05] <IchGuckLive> B is arotary
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[19:30:29] <Deuplonicus> what do you mean?
[19:30:38] <IchGuckLive> joe99 http://www.pictureupload.de/originals/pictures/060312203020_gearframe.jpg
[19:31:00] <IchGuckLive> axis B is a rotory table not a liniar
[19:31:20] <IchGuckLive> it rotates around Y
[19:31:53] <IchGuckLive> jdhnc: http://www.pictureupload.de/originals/pictures/060312203020_gearframe.jpg
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[19:32:31] <jdhnc> yours look neater than mine :)
[19:32:32] <Deuplonicus> im not doing a rotatary table
[19:34:24] <IchGuckLive> checking B Deuplonicus ?
[19:35:38] <Deuplonicus> no, I don't know how
[19:35:44] <IchGuckLive> by for me today
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[19:36:31] <Deuplonicus> When pairing a motor to a pin used by another motor, does this work as it sounds?
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[19:38:08] <archivist> Deuplonicus, your homing wont be right like that
[19:38:51] <Deuplonicus> My second motor worked when I accidentally had it in XYZA mode, but upon realizing A was a rotary axis, I instead changed to XYZ, and set the pin assignments so two motors on my HCNC controller used Y step and Y direction, while one is inverted. But the other motor does not work, it is only stopped
[19:39:27] <Deuplonicus> oh good point on the homing, I was just doing this because someone else suggested it the other day. Is there a proper way to get the fourth motor of my machine working?
[19:40:06] <archivist> I did mention gantrykins the other day but I gave not used it myself
[19:40:26] <Deuplonicus> hehe, gantrykins, yea I forgot, I have looked at it, but it feels alien
[19:42:27] <archivist> there are a number of gantry types that have been built, homing and making sure there is no twist is the problem, I thought there were a few articles/blogs on the subject
[19:44:46] <Deuplonicus> maybe but i havnt found them
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[19:52:20] <archivist> Deuplonicus, apparently there is an example stepper-gantry config s
[19:53:10] <archivist> this thread http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/component/kunena/?func=view&catid=10&id=7364
[19:53:40] <archivist> needs a nice documentation page somewhere
[19:54:14] <Deuplonicus> yea, thanks, still reading
[19:57:19] <Deuplonicus> i'm reading the thread, I did the pin reassignment that this guy did (his worked) and my second motor did not move, it was in stop mode. I'm wondering if I have a different problem after reading that
[19:58:15] <archivist> well that thread mentions gantrykins...and....
[20:05:29] <JT-Shop> archivist: what documentation page are you needing?
[20:06:05] <archivist> is there a nice gantry setup page for noobs?
[20:06:46] <archivist> google is failing to find anything sensible for me
[20:06:53] <JT-Shop> hmmm, I don't think there is...
[20:07:49] <Deuplonicus> yea I've tried multiple times
[20:07:50] <archivist> we have a wiki page from the user with his special homing, and the gantryking man page
[20:07:54] <JT-Shop> best thing I know of is the sample config in to.5
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[20:08:41] <JT-Shop> http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=emc2.git;a=tree;f=configs/gantry;h=381feb37fe291d601ef3f7008fec77b90e2947f5;hb=refs/heads/v2.5_branch
[20:08:51] <Deuplonicus> sto.5?
[20:09:01] <JT-Shop> the most basic gantry config I know of
[20:09:20] <archivist> Deuplonicus, see link above
[20:09:25] <JT-Shop> ok, too point five ::)
[20:09:30] <JT-Shop> 2.5
[20:10:08] <archivist> that forum page implied there is/was something in 2.4
[20:10:46] <JT-Shop> there are but I think they are way too complex, unless the "gantry" is in 2.4
[20:10:53] <Deuplonicus> checking....
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[20:11:23] <JT-Shop> yea, the ones in 2.4 are overly complicated...
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[20:19:01] <Deuplonicus> so I just copied those github files
[20:21:48] <Deuplonicus> I have a 5 month old copy of linuxcnc, i see there have been changes since, should I upgrade?
[20:22:23] <Deuplonicus> how do I load these files? they don't show up in step config
[20:23:26] <archivist> I would think forget stepconf and do some hand editing or move up to 2.5
[20:24:15] <Deuplonicus> is 2.5 on the new livecd download?
[20:25:49] <JT-Shop> no
[20:25:52] <JT-Shop> not yet
[20:26:10] <JT-Shop> are you using 2.4.7?
[20:26:39] <mrsun> hmm, anyone got any cheap good way of making guides for the axises of a low cost router mill ? :)
[20:26:43] <Deuplonicus> git? I keep my cnc computer off the internet, 2.4.3
[20:27:24] <archivist> getting the cnc on the web is job one so you can get updates and irc
[20:27:27] <JT-Shop> there has been numerous bug fixes since 2.4.3
[20:27:28] <mrsun> was thinking of the skate bearing way, hows that? :)
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[20:27:42] <Deuplonicus> hmmm ok, how do I get to 2.5?
[20:28:06] <JT-Shop> Deuplonicus: you don't need 2.5 to run that config it is very basic
[20:28:39] <JT-Shop> mrsun sure they will work so long as they fall within your tolerance needs
[20:29:08] <mrsun> JT-Shop, its for a wood working machine so the tolerances should be quite high compared to a metal mill =)
[20:29:21] <mrsun> and i was thinking of having excentric axises so i can tighten them up =)
[20:29:31] <JT-Shop> just depends on "your" tolerance
[20:29:55] <Deuplonicus> ok, how do I run that config? I just placed the gantry.hal and gantry.ini nto my config folder that had terminator.hal/ini (my machines name) and renamed them to terminator
[20:30:22] <JT-Shop> Deuplonicus: just create a directory in your /config directory and copy the files to your new directory then run emc from the menu and it should show up
[20:30:42] <JT-Shop> then start emc from the menu and it should show up
[20:30:43] <Loetmichel> mrsun: how's this? -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=8884
[20:31:06] <mrsun> Loetmichel, thats about how i was thinking =)
[20:31:10] <archivist> Deuplonicus, fixing pin connections to suit
[20:31:19] <archivist> in an editor
[20:31:22] <Loetmichel> actually, skate bearings have usually a higher tolerance class than "standard" bearings
[20:31:25] <mrsun> but using square tubing insted of round for more contact area for the bearings =)
[20:31:29] <JT-Shop> archivist: thanks for remembering that
[20:32:21] <Deuplonicus> alright, just made a new directory with the two gantry files, and loaded them. how do I move an axis with Axis? I've only ever used stepconfig to move these motors
[20:32:26] <Loetmichel> mrsun: only cavat of this linear ways: the bearings run on their outer rim... the dont last forever (rings break after some xx hours)
[20:32:28] <archivist> I think he is not used to the editing configs part yet :)
[20:32:43] <Deuplonicus> oh nevermind
[20:32:47] <Deuplonicus> the program terminated
[20:32:52] <Deuplonicus> it won't open it
[20:33:02] <mrsun> Loetmichel, adding a press fit outer rim for it then ? :)
[20:33:03] <Deuplonicus> it can't open gantry.hal
[20:33:27] <Loetmichel> may be possible, but isnt easy without a lathe ;-)
[20:33:49] <mrsun> Loetmichel, got a lathe
[20:33:51] <mrsun> so :P
[20:33:53] <archivist> Deuplonicus, the connections wont be correct, you need to merge your config you created in stepcong and the gantry one so the right axes get connected to the right pins
[20:33:57] <Loetmichel> then: do it
[20:34:06] <Loetmichel> otherwise the bearing method is fine
[20:34:25] <Loetmichel> ... uses 8 bearings for each sled, but the cheap ones are suitable
[20:34:34] <JT-Shop> first build a lathe using a washing machine motor and a whirly gig
[20:34:39] <Loetmichel> i.e 50ct per 6mm bearing in my case
[20:35:05] <mrsun> Loetmichel, so 8x4 about for the whole machine then
[20:35:18] <mrsun> two sets for Y axis, 1 for X axis and 1 for Z
[20:35:23] <Loetmichel> correct
[20:35:37] <archivist> fixing run out on the drill spindle was fun without a lathe a couple of days ago motor, hose to spindle tube clamped to bench, hand turn true
[20:36:21] <Loetmichel> and i use the spring characteristics of the wood/screws by making the holders for the rond steel bars about a tenth of a mm to small
[20:36:40] <Loetmichel> rather than making some excenters to adjust the bearings
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[20:37:09] <mrsun> Loetmichel, it will be made in steel =)
[20:37:29] <mrsun> alu + steel for the frame and guideways etc
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[20:38:49] <Loetmichel> so you have to find a way to adjzst at least ONE side of the bearings for press fit
[20:38:56] <Loetmichel> adjust
[20:39:54] <mrsun> Loetmichel, i was thinking excentric mounts for all of the bearings, so its fully adjustable for play/missalignment =)
[20:39:54] <Loetmichel> but the test bed therte runs like a char, even with the acme thread leadscrew without any play
[20:40:27] <Loetmichel> (two seperate plastic nuts for the leadscrew in each sled and turned against each other to eleminate play)
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[20:41:34] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/markusb/VID00028.AVI
[20:42:28] <Loetmichel> (yes, i AM a cghaotic guy, even a messie)
[20:45:24] <mrsun> hmm, what are the dimensions of metric skate bearings ...
[20:45:40] <mrsun> 8 inner i guess, but outer and how thick are they? :)
[20:46:30] <Loetmichel> 8*22*7
[20:47:07] <mrsun> 7 thick, or is 8 the thickness? :)
[20:47:34] <Loetmichel> 8 inner, 22 outer, 7 thick
[20:47:41] <mrsun> oki =)
[20:48:25] <archivist> there are some 7 inner 7 hole 22 outer too
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[20:51:39] <Loetmichel> in skates?
[20:51:56] <Loetmichel> i only knew skates with 6mm bearings and 8mm bearings
[20:52:01] <Loetmichel> NEVEr seen 7mm
[20:52:35] <deuplonicus> the file terminated again.
[20:54:06] <deuplonicus> it said a pin or parameter 'stepgen.3.position-scale'' not found
[20:55:31] <deuplonicus> i'm looking at the pin assignments in the terminator.hal and the datasheet for my hobbycnc motor controller, they are correct
[21:00:33] <deuplonicus> i'm going to upgrade my linuxcnc to 2.5
[21:00:40] <deuplonicus> then I'll get back
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[21:03:07] <JT-Shop> deuplonicus: do you have enough stepgens loaded?
[21:03:20] <deuplonicus> I don't know, how can I check?
[21:03:49] <JT-Shop> look in your main hal file
[21:04:07] <deuplonicus> the teminator.hal? I'm there now
[21:04:23] <JT-Shop> look for loadrt stepgen
[21:04:36] <JT-Shop> you will need 4 defined there
[21:04:43] <JT-Shop> http://linuxcnc.org/docview/2.5/html/man/man9/stepgen.9.html
[21:05:19] <JT-Shop> opps look here http://linuxcnc.org/docview/html/man/man9/stepgen.9.html
[21:05:37] <JT-Shop> deuplonicus: did you find the line?
[21:06:13] <deuplonicus> yes
[21:06:30] <JT-Shop> does it have 4 step_types?
[21:06:32] <deuplonicus> it has loadrt stepgen step_type = 0, 0, 0
[21:06:36] <deuplonicus> do I need another ,0?
[21:06:40] <JT-Shop> you need to add one more
[21:06:45] <JT-Shop> ,0
[21:06:50] <deuplonicus> lol, I love code learning
[21:06:56] <JT-Shop> and does it have ctrl_type?
[21:06:57] <deuplonicus> alright, trying to run again
[21:07:04] <JT-Shop> NO WAIT
[21:07:07] <deuplonicus> ok waiting
[21:07:08] <deuplonicus> haha
[21:07:08] <JT-Shop> we are not done
[21:07:17] <JT-Shop> does it have ctrl_type?
[21:07:41] <deuplonicus> no it was not found
[21:07:48] <JT-Shop> just a second
[21:07:52] <deuplonicus> mmmk
[21:08:04] <JT-Shop> fire it off and see if you get an error
[21:08:33] <deuplonicus> ok
[21:09:35] <JT-Shop> did you combine your files from stepconf? I see the gantry.hal has 4 stepgens in it
[21:10:28] <deuplonicus> yes I combined them, it took a while earlier, got a new error: Pin 'hal_manualtoolchange.change' does not exsist
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[21:10:57] <deuplonicus> I don't have any pins defined yet for stuff like that, should I delete the line?
[21:11:14] <JT-Shop> you can comment out a line with # at the start of a line
[21:12:24] <deuplonicus> alright its open!
[21:12:25] <JT-Shop> you should only have to change the parport pin numbers to get the gantry config to load
[21:12:33] <JT-Shop> well there you go
[21:12:48] <deuplonicus> now, to test it, I'm unfamiliar with Axis, how do I manually jog?
[21:12:53] <mrsun> i hate angles :P
[21:13:16] <mrsun> nice even numbers fast becomes very uneven numbers when you start to rotate stuff :P
[21:13:16] <deuplonicus> all my joint and spindle buttons under manual control are greyed out (I cannot use them)
[21:13:38] <jdhnc> did you hit the on button?
[21:14:03] <Loetmichel> and is the disable inactive from the machine?
[21:14:26] <deuplonicus> I did an emergency stop, then was able to start it
[21:14:30] <deuplonicus> and now I can use the controls
[21:14:31] <deuplonicus> testing
[21:15:14] <deuplonicus> OMG!
[21:15:17] <deuplonicus> YOU ARE MY HERO
[21:15:28] <deuplonicus> well you and a couple others that have been here the last two days
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[21:16:17] <deuplonicus> ok, now how do I invert my gantry motors rotation?
[21:16:29] <deuplonicus> I remeber seeing it in step confg but not emc
[21:16:47] <jdhnc> change it to -, or reverse the A+/- leads
[21:18:08] <deuplonicus> oh so right now I think they are independent? how do they work together?
[21:20:55] <deuplonicus> where do I change the direction to (-)?
[21:22:38] <deuplonicus> well, i'm guessing, I'm changing a 1 to a -1 around steplen
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[21:24:21] <deuplonicus> well, that didn't work
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[21:27:28] <deuplonicus> I've changed a lot in the .hal and .ini files, nothing seems to reverse the 4th axis, I'm checking within the program now
[21:31:32] <JT-Shop> in your ini change the scale to minus to reverse direction
[21:32:26] <deuplonicus> scale? wow, I never wouldn't guessed, I was all over that ini file too, thanks
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[21:36:24] * archivist looks at scrollback...seems to be advancing
[21:38:39] <deuplonicus> what is scrollback?
[21:39:59] <archivist> the irc window, one can scroll back in time to see what has been said (and infer the unsaid)
[21:43:22] <deuplonicus> oh yes. hey how do I jog the gantry around? right now I have the two motors working the right direction and speed, but they are individual joints
[21:44:11] <archivist> arrow keys
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[21:44:52] <deuplonicus> gah I hate amazingly simple answers that make perfect sense!
[21:45:13] <archivist> :)
[21:45:39] <archivist> next you could try the page up down keys
[21:46:38] <deuplonicus> hmmmm when I use the arrow keys only one of the gantry motors moves with up and down
[21:47:58] <deuplonicus> my pg up and pg dwn keys make the motor skip steps badly vs the +/- buttons on the screen which work flawlessly
[21:48:20] <deuplonicus> I'll probably have to set some vel and acc settings
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[21:49:10] <deuplonicus> my gantry motors don't work together, but they work now
[21:49:33] <JT-Shop> yes, you will have to find a sane value for acc and vel
[21:50:20] <archivist> not looked at the config myself but at some stage after homing I would expect them to be linked
[21:53:26] <deuplonicus> so I should just home the y and it should be linked?
[21:54:33] <archivist> have you got homing switches wired up and configured etc
[21:54:35] <deuplonicus> I homed the all axis and it doesnt appear to link them
[21:54:38] <deuplonicus> no not at all
[21:55:03] <deuplonicus> I'm just trying to make it work first, but I do plan to add them
[21:55:26] <deuplonicus> I have hominh hard stops, but that is all
[21:59:24] <DJ9DJ> gn8
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[22:00:07] <archivist> deuplonicus, read the README in the gantry config dir
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[22:01:33] <archivist> and a couple of extra jog keys should be findable probably [ and ] iirc
[22:03:12] <deuplonicus> so the readme, makes it sound like I shouldn've implemented gantry-hs, not gantry
[22:03:38] <deuplonicus> so the readme, makes it sound like I should've* implemented gantry-hs, not gantry
[22:03:55] <archivist> well gantry while you have no switches then move up
[22:04:20] <deuplonicus> is there anyway to jog the gantry around without the home switches?
[22:05:29] <archivist> read the first part of that readme :)
[22:06:46] <deuplonicus> haha, geez sorry i suck so hard
[22:07:11] <deuplonicus> but what is world mode, I searched the user manual, nothing
[22:09:25] <deuplonicus> it says all joints must be homed before going into world mode, I clicked home all, but it doesn't do anything
[22:12:10] <deuplonicus> ok it wouldn't let me home all, and now it's endlessly homing the X-axis...
[22:12:59] <archivist> after a google I see no docs to set world mode
[22:13:06] <deuplonicus> and it won't let me stop the homing with unhome
[22:13:15] <deuplonicus> should I do an emergency stop?
[22:13:35] <archivist> you can estop at any time
[22:16:00] <deuplonicus> hey after homing all of a sudden when I jog my x-axis it's super slow
[22:16:59] <archivist> have you got X as the dual motor axis instead of Y
[22:17:44] <deuplonicus> no, X is my carridge
[22:18:39] <archivist> you can slide the jog slider to increase
[22:18:50] <deuplonicus> ea we just figured that out
[22:20:32] <deuplonicus> ok, I thought the .hal we created didn't have homing, but world view requires homing? is it because of some homing variables in my .ini?
[22:21:38] <archivist> you have homed by clicking the axis buttons /me assumes
[22:22:44] <deuplonicus> eh, i used the "Home axis X" , "...Y", etc, through the menu of "Machine" and then "Homing"
[22:23:22] <rob_h> mmmm the sound of nice new spindle bearings :D
[22:23:40] <archivist> silence?
[22:23:47] <rob_h> o yes, so is the wallet
[22:23:54] <archivist> or the dirt you left in
[22:24:33] <JT-Shop> quiet is nice
[22:24:36] <rob_h> well now they have greese not like old set that has black gunk
[22:24:48] <rob_h> yes now all i hear is air out the closer :(
[22:25:16] <rob_h> how when u fix one thing, u move onto the next lowdest thing haha
[22:26:11] <deuplonicus> I was able to home every axis to zero except the x-axis, everytime I click home it starts moving, but when I home the others they simply say "0.000000" on the screen
[22:26:34] <rob_h> becasue of the ini settings i bet
[22:27:22] <deuplonicus> checking
[22:27:56] <deuplonicus> yaya! ini files are to blame!
[22:29:27] <deuplonicus> ok, I'm finally in world mode. I tried to move the gantry and it immediately said "Joint 1 following error" and "Joint 3 following error" Those being the Y-Axis
[22:30:31] <deuplonicus> also :error: exceeded soft limit" and it immediately shuts off the machine
[22:30:36] <deuplonicus> i bet this is ini too
[22:32:02] <deuplonicus> yes, ini ftw
[22:32:24] <deuplonicus> alright we've got to take a smoke break, bbl
[22:32:41] <rob_h> ok
[22:32:47] <rob_h> coffe 2
[22:32:53] * JT-Shop gets a beer break
[22:33:01] <JT-Shop> HI Rob!
[22:33:05] <rob_h> that to make turning look better ;)
[22:33:16] <rob_h> hi hi
[22:35:03] <deuplonicus> man I can't wait til this garage gets warmer
[22:42:29] <Jymmm> deuplonicus: Get a Portable Buddy and 20# propane tank =)
[22:43:13] <Jymmm> or two, or three =)
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[22:45:53] <Jymmm> deuplonicus: My hands (even with fingerless gloves) were getting so cold, my joints would just burn. Not anymore, and I just leave it on the LOW setting.
[22:46:29] <Jymmm> #20 tank lasts about 100 hours on low.
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[23:14:55] <deuplonicus> hehe, we might next year, this year was a mild winter so we did good
[23:18:49] <deuplonicus> about to perform first full movement test in world view
[23:18:54] <deuplonicus> i hope anyhow
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[23:23:27] <deuplonicus> ARG I have a joint 1 following error
[23:23:34] <deuplonicus> what could this be?
[23:23:48] <Tom_itx> arthritis?
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[23:27:53] <JT-Shop> http://linuxcnc.org/docview/html/common_Stepper_Diagnostics.html
[23:29:17] <deuplonicus> yea i'm tying out ferror now
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[23:34:41] <deuplonicus> yay!!!
[23:34:54] <deuplonicus> ferror and the min and max were made larger, and now everything works!
[23:35:16] <deuplonicus> Then I made the z go up and down stupidly fast, and broke a past the ferror limits, lol
[23:35:21] <deuplonicus> OMG you guys rock
[23:35:35] <deuplonicus> I'll have to do some linuxcnc cutting and put the logo everywhere
[23:52:47] <deuplonicus> geez, so I restarted the compu, and then after closing linuxcnc it wouldnt start again... restarting again
[23:52:55] <deuplonicus> whats the best way to update to 2.5 without internet?
[23:53:24] <Tom_itx> live cd?
[23:55:00] <joe9> 26
[23:56:34] <joe9> "the taig delivery time is 3-4 weeks after receipt of the order" -- that is weird.. is that normal?
[23:56:40] <JT-Shop> deuplonicus: why do you want to upgrade to 2.5? Is there some feature you need in 2.5?
[23:58:30] <joe9> i could probably build one by the time I receive it..
[23:58:42] <joe9> i was thinking i could get something by the end of the week.
[23:58:45] <JT-Shop> not with your drill press :P
[23:59:21] <joe9> JT-Shop: yes, that's true. what do you think of the "cnc 3020"?