#linuxcnc | Logs for 2012-02-29

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[00:42:54] <iwoj> EMC2 keeps crashing on me. I'm wondering if you guys can make any sense from these log details:
[00:42:54] <iwoj> Feb 28 16:30:34 krakow kernel: [ 617.696815] I-pipe: Domain RTAI registered.
[00:42:54] <iwoj> Feb 28 16:30:34 krakow kernel: [ 617.696820] RTAI[hal]: <3.8.1> mounted over IPIPE-NOTHREADS 2.6-03.
[00:42:55] <iwoj> Feb 28 16:30:34 krakow kernel: [ 617.696822] RTAI[hal]: compiled with gcc version 4.4.3 (Ubuntu 4.4.3-4ubuntu5) .
[00:42:55] <iwoj> Feb 28 16:30:34 krakow kernel: [ 617.696844] RTAI[hal]: mounted (IPIPE-NOTHREADS, IMMEDIATE (INTERNAL IRQs DISPATCHED), ISOL_CPUS_MASK: 0).
[00:42:55] <iwoj> Feb 28 16:30:34 krakow kernel: [ 617.696846] PIPELINE layers:
[00:42:55] <iwoj> Feb 28 16:30:34 krakow kernel: [ 617.696848] f8205e20 9ac15d93 RTAI 200
[00:42:55] <iwoj> Feb 28 16:30:34 krakow kernel: [ 617.696850] c085cb20 0 Linux 100
[00:42:55] <iwoj> Feb 28 16:30:34 krakow kernel: [ 617.712979] RTAI[malloc]: global heap size = 2097152 bytes, <BSD>.
[00:42:56] <iwoj> Feb 28 16:30:34 krakow kernel: [ 617.713148] RTAI[sched]: IMMEDIATE, MP, USER/KERNEL SPACE: <with RTAI OWN KTASKs>, kstacks pool size = 524288 bytes.
[00:42:56] <iwoj> Feb 28 16:30:34 krakow kernel: [ 617.713153] RTAI[sched]: hard timer type/freq = APIC/12603182(Hz); default timing: periodic; linear timed lists.
[00:42:57] <iwoj> Feb 28 16:30:34 krakow kernel: [ 617.713156] RTAI[schFeb 28 16:39:29 krakow kernel: imklog 4.2.0, log source = /proc/kmsg started.
[00:43:40] <iwoj> Sorry. Annoying. I should have just posted this:
[00:43:40] <iwoj> http://typewith.me/p/MJGTUKnksK
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[01:00:22] <iwoj> I tried running my machine with the VESA driver instead of the nvidia driver, but it still freezes.
[01:02:23] <jthornton> does another gui like mini or keystick work fine?
[01:02:34] <jthornton> might be an opengl issue
[01:09:17] <iwoj> I tried tkEMC
[01:09:24] <iwoj> i don't think it uses opengl
[01:09:31] <iwoj> let me try mini
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[01:15:28] <iwoj> no, mini also stalls the OS
[01:15:59] <iwoj> Could it be some kind of timing problem?
[01:16:38] <iwoj> I set-up stepconf with 50000ns maxjitter
[01:21:33] <iwoj> I think I've found the problem.
[01:21:52] <iwoj> running the latency tester I get values above 80000
[01:22:00] <iwoj> but stepconf maxes out at 50000
[01:22:20] <iwoj> is there a way to reduce latency or set the value above the max?
[01:25:09] <skunkKandT> above 80 is really starting to be bad for step gen
[01:27:24] <iwoj> are there ways to tune the system to reduce latency?
[01:28:26] <skunkKandT> wahat is the system?
[01:29:30] <iwoj> the hardware?
[01:29:35] <skunkKandT> yes
[01:30:01] <mikegg> http://rtai.dk/cgi-bin/gratiswiki.pl?Latency_Killer
[01:30:36] <iwoj> http://typewith.me/p/COmEf3a2QK
[01:31:25] <iwoj> good link.
[01:31:27] <iwoj> thanks.
[01:31:39] <iwoj> the typepad link has my system specs
[01:34:53] <danimal_laptop> hi
[01:41:16] <skunkKandT> heh - coordinate rotation is cool.
[01:51:49] <elmo40> anonimas1: yes. 3mm should be easier.
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[02:11:59] <joe9> does anyone know how to remove the pulley spindle of a drill press. It has a 22mm nut, but, I cannot hold the pulley tight enough to turn that nut with a wrench.
[02:12:08] <joe9> Is there any smart way of removing it?
[02:12:21] <joe9> I read about "A/C pulley clutch" remover tool.
[02:12:26] <joe9> Is that a good idea?
[02:15:49] <jdhnc> I think you have to get the nut off before that works
[02:17:43] <jdhnc> pipe wrench on the small pulley perhaps
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[02:20:35] <skunkKandT> air impact wrench?
[02:20:41] <skunkKandT> or tap the wrench
[02:20:45] <Loetmichel> re @ home
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[02:34:02] <joe9> jdhnc: I could not get the pipe wrench to hold the small pulley.
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[02:34:15] <joe9> the biggest one has jaws that are more than 3/8 inch wide.
[02:34:54] <joe9> and the smallest pipe wrench, the jaws do not open wide enough to hold the pulley.
[02:35:23] <joe9> impact wrench would work. unfortunately, I do not have one.
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[02:36:07] <joe9> jdhnc: i thout that the "A/C clutch removal tool" will remove that nut..?
[02:36:13] <joe9> maybe, I am wrong.
[02:38:46] <A2Sheds> http://akroncanton.craigslist.org/tls/2823431007.html bridgeport or?? I've never seen a tilt by bridgeport
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[02:39:16] <jdhnc> we have a bridgeport at work that tilts
[02:39:42] <cstop> nods gracefully
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[02:42:20] <hatch789> PCW, if you're here do you have any idea why my hal meter shows my resolver velocity in motion when the machine is at rest?
[02:44:29] <pcw_home> Do you have 5V on the 7I49 now (and resolver drive and sine /cos coming back)?
[02:45:28] <hatch789> I have 4.65 solid on the 7i49
[02:45:44] <hatch789> I have wired the power into the 7i43 directly from the pc now
[02:46:10] <hatch789> when you say resolver drive sine/cos coming back what are you meaning there?
[02:46:36] <hatch789> I have positively ensured that each pair is isolated, no leaking and that none are wired in reverse now
[02:46:45] <|n0b0dy|> http://houston.craigslist.org/tls/2841774083.html
[02:47:25] <hatch789> pcw_home, on my resolver driver pins I show 4.17v from both pins when tested to ground
[02:47:44] <hatch789> all lights are lit up properly now (all 3) on the 7i49 board
[02:48:23] <pcw_home> OK thats a lot better (output is a balanced bridge 1/2 way up the 8V supply so dont short then to ground)
[02:48:57] <pcw_home> Can you measure the AC output signal now
[02:49:56] <hatch789> not shorting them, just testing voltage to ground on those resolver driver pins
[02:50:08] <hatch789> ac signal output on what?
[02:50:39] <pcw_home> across the drive pins
[02:51:00] <pcw_home> just to make sure you have the sine wave exitation
[02:51:20] <hatch789> 2.44 v
[02:51:45] <hatch789> 2.72v AC on sin
[02:51:49] <hatch789> 1.93v on AC cos
[02:51:58] <hatch789> 1.93vac on cos
[02:52:13] <hatch789> the 2.44vac is across the driver pins
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[02:54:14] <pcw_home> can you rotate the shaft till you get the maximum signal on sine or cosine?
[02:55:56] <hatch789> yes, but I'll need to add another pair of wires into the pins to bring those leads out to my meter while I'm up at the handwheels
[02:56:25] <hatch789> is there a way to use the hal meter or hal scope to see those readings without my external wires and volt meter?
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[02:58:07] <pcw_home> OK well anyway looks signal amplitude is too big (so you either need to use channels 4,5,6 with the 1/2 scale option) or divide the input down (a couple resistors)
[02:59:09] <pcw_home> The current firmware does not do AGC so you have to manually get the amplitudes close
[03:00:24] <hatch789> ok I think I follow
[03:00:28] <hatch789> driver voltage is too high
[03:00:35] <hatch789> hence signals on sin/cos are out of range?
[03:00:44] <pcw_home> But I think the problem with spinning while standing still is the firmware bug I mentioned (a bug in WebPack)
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[03:01:06] <hatch789> how do I update my firmware?
[03:01:27] <pcw_home> So I can send you a new bitfile tommorow that should fix that
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[03:01:37] <hatch789> ok
[03:01:42] <hatch789> chris@oupower.com
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[03:02:54] <pcw_home> (I can even make one with lower drive amplitude) I dont think I want to mess with the AGC stuff until I have a full free day to work on it
[03:03:41] <hatch789> will one with a lower drive amplitude negate the need for me to use resistors on my driver windings?
[03:03:50] <pcw_home> Yes
[03:04:03] <hatch789> if that's easy for you to do it would be nice
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[03:05:48] <hatch789> getting you those max sin and cos readings right now
[03:05:56] <hatch789> I figured out a way to do it easily
[03:05:59] <pcw_home> The resolver part of the driver could allow access to the excitation drive amplitude as well but since
[03:06:01] <hatch789> hold on if you want to know
[03:06:01] <pcw_home> Andy is embarking on a 2 month sailing trip I dont think thats going to get added anytime soon
[03:06:29] <ssi> he seems to do that a lot :P
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[03:07:19] <hatch789> 3.5vac on SIN is max
[03:07:23] <hatch789> testing cos now
[03:07:38] <pcw_home> well his job keeps him on the go, funny he doesnt stay home for vacation...
[03:07:56] <hatch789> same for COS
[03:08:09] <pcw_home> good sign...
[03:08:29] <hatch789> good how?
[03:08:55] <pcw_home> well if they were not the same it indicates a bad resolver
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[03:09:59] <pcw_home> OK tommorow Ill make a new bit file
[03:10:34] <hatch789> ok
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[03:10:44] <hatch789> are those values too high?
[03:10:44] <ssi> how hard is it for one of us consumers to make our own bit files?
[03:10:58] <hatch789> too high for EMC to read?
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[03:12:34] <pcw_home> ssi not too hard but you need Xilinx webpack (~5G download)
[03:13:02] <mikegg> Tom_itx made a pretty good write up. lemme see if I can find it
[03:14:04] <mikegg> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/emc/xilinx/xilinx_install_index.php
[03:15:01] <ssi> sweet
[03:15:06] <ssi> I've worked with ISE beforeu, but it's been ages
[03:15:09] <pcw_home> what happens if the ampiltude is too great is that the peaks and valleys get clipped so the resolver angle thats calculated is wrong
[03:15:11] <pcw_home> for those portions of the rotation where the clipping happens
[03:15:49] <hatch789> so is 3.5v too great?
[03:15:54] <hatch789> causing clipping?
[03:16:03] <pcw_home> Yes
[03:16:10] <hatch789> what should it be at max?
[03:16:33] <pcw_home> it should still kind of work, just be inaccurate
[03:16:42] <hatch789> ahh
[03:16:51] <pcw_home> about 1V RMS
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[03:17:05] <hatch789> oh wow 1v. so my biggest problem right now might just be the firmware issue?
[03:17:47] <ssi> I'm gonna have to go thorugh all this mess soon myself, if I get this HNC
[03:17:51] <ssi> it's all resolvers
[03:18:47] <hatch789> well it's really not bad at all :)
[03:19:00] <cstop> could one reduce the resolver excitation voltage?
[03:19:08] <hatch789> I am a total newb and with some help from PCW and CNC Basher I'm in good shape
[03:19:12] <pcw_home> Probably, the spinning issue is a know problem with bitfiles compiled wit the bad version of webpack
[03:20:37] <hatch789> so right now, even if I add resistors to my excitor winding to bring the sin/cos RMS down, it won't really help anything?
[03:20:39] <pcw_home> Yes thats the easiest (if you reduce sin/cos you need to do it accurately matched or you get elliptical interpolation)
[03:21:29] <hatch789> yeah it would be hard to get exact resistors with little to no error between them
[03:21:56] <ssi> hand-pick 1% resistors
[03:22:03] <ssi> or you can likely order more precision ones
[03:22:17] <hatch789> so right now my AXIS screen is on and as I turn the wheels I see no movement in the X & Y axis readings on screen. Should I see them at least trying to move?
[03:22:32] <hatch789> I was just hoping to see something (kind of)
[03:23:05] <pcw_home> gettting the amplitude right will probably not help
[03:23:07] <pcw_home> Ive seen the spinning thing entirely too much
[03:23:09] <pcw_home> (I thought it was a software bug so spent about 2 days trying to fix it in the resolver DSP code)
[03:25:03] <mikegg> I wonder if you could make an ellipse into a circle with comp
[03:25:45] <pcw_home> Do you have a fairly recent Linuxcnc 2.5? there were some bugs fixed Maybe around January
[03:26:18] <cstop> pcw I've missed something....what "spinning thing" are you referring to?
[03:27:27] <cstop> spinning while at stand still?
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[03:27:34] <pcw_home> The resolver interface provide a velocity pin. Some bitfiles compiled with Webpack 9.2 have a bug that causes the velocity to be non 0 when idle
[03:28:01] <cstop> Clear!
[03:29:00] <ssi> ooh, so the 7i49 has the servo outputs on it too, huh
[03:29:09] <pcw_home> (and none of the resolver signals to work)
[03:29:11] <pcw_home> its a wonderful bug, it makes small counters (~8 bits or less)
[03:29:13] <pcw_home> not count if the whole design is complex enough
[03:29:33] <ssi> so basically it's the only thing I need besides the servo amps off the machine
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[03:30:01] <pcw_home> Yes its like a 7I48 but with resolver in instead of encoder
[03:30:14] <Tecan> hey got a question
[03:30:23] <Tecan> on a co2 laser the gold side goes to the light right ?
[03:30:42] <ssi> I haven't dealt with servo machines at all yet.... my one and only mesa-based system is all stepper
[03:31:39] <pcw_home> You get to learn tuning...
[03:31:54] <cstop> If one is controlling a commercial Servo drive (read Yaskawa) with a "simulated encoder output" Is the 7I48 the best match up?
[03:31:58] <Tecan> on the mirror
[03:32:03] <ssi> woo
[03:32:20] <ssi> I've tuned pid loops before, thankfully :D
[03:32:27] <pcw_home> Probably or 7I33 or 5I25/7I77
[03:38:57] <cstop> So if a combined system, ie servo and stepper, the combination might be 5i20 or 5i25 along with a 7i77 and a 7i78?
[03:39:13] <cstop> Is the 5i25 sufficient?
[03:40:07] <pcw_home> Yes you could have a 5I25/7I77/7I78 combo
[03:42:16] <cstop> The application is a process tool that increments vert, and rotary, while feeding long.
[03:42:34] <pcw_home> that would give you 6 servo axis + 4 step/dir + spindle encoder +spindle analog +48 I/O + 2 RS-422 expansion ports for more I/O
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[03:44:23] <hatch789> how do I tune my signal input to my servos so they are 0v? right now X is .009v and Y is .003v
[03:44:33] <hatch789> is there a way to adjust those in tiny increments?
[03:45:39] <cstop> hatch how did you measure those very small values?
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[03:46:16] <hatch789> with my volt meter across the 7i49 boards pins for the servo signal
[03:46:18] <pcw_home> You can do it with the bias parameter of the PID loop
[03:46:33] <hatch789> is that under calibration?
[03:47:22] <pcw_home> I doubt if anyone really bothers, a .1% offset is not significant
[03:47:34] <hatch789> ok ...just checking
[03:47:42] <pcw_home> once the feedback loop is closed
[03:48:13] <hatch789> by that you mean once my resolvers are working properly
[03:48:21] <pcw_home> and you should disable your drives until the feedback loop is closed (EMC-on)
[03:48:32] <pcw_home> (so they dont creep)
[03:48:59] <hatch789> ok dumb question, how do I disable my drives from the AXIS screen?
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[03:50:01] <pcw_home> They should be disabled when EMC is off (but you need to wire this up figure how to drive the enable signal)
[03:50:05] <hatch789> and they are creeping, but that means my Westamp Drivers need a bit of tweaking, which is why I wanted to do this exercise. it will let me tune my westamp drivers tonight
[03:51:26] <cstop> pcw do you offer cables and connections for the 5i25-7i77, 7i78 combination? Sorry to hold two different conversations hatch ;)
[03:51:39] <pcw_home> but both the 7I49 and the drives will drift so you need to wire up the enable (one enable for all axis is usually OK)
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[03:52:34] <pfred1> pfred1@spot:~/emc2/emc2-dev$ grep -ir emc * | wc -l = 55742
[03:53:06] <pcw_home> cstop: Yes the 5I25/7I77/Cable is a set (Plug_and_Go) I think $239
[03:53:13] <pfred1> So, how is that name changing coming along?
[03:53:16] <hatch789> I have my milling machine powered off right now but when I click the power button on my AXIS Screen those servo pins shoot up to 10v
[03:53:27] <A2Sheds> pcw_home: whats the highest clock rate between anything IO board and daughter cards over the 50 pin connectors?
[03:53:27] <hatch789> which I believe right now would drive my servo at max speed
[03:54:00] <cstop> pcw I have your page open... expect a contact soon
[03:54:02] <pcw_home> Do you have the PWM mode set to mode 2?
[03:54:35] <hatch789> oh I need to go check that hold on
[03:55:54] <pcw_home> A2Sheds We use up to about 16 MHz (to say 5 ft)
[03:55:56] <pcw_home> FPGA outputs are parallel terminated on the daughter card
[03:55:58] <pcw_home> FPGA inputs are series terminated on the daughtercard
[03:55:59] <pfred1> pcw_home you ask leading questions
[03:56:46] <pcw_home> pfred1?
[03:56:53] <pfred1> 22:49 < pcw_home> Do you have the PWM mode set to mode 2?
[03:57:27] <A2Sheds> pcw_home: the eoma68 cards only have 20 GPIO, so I'll have to multiplex a few to get the 25 required
[03:58:06] <pcw_home> The 50 pin daughtercards use 24 pins, the 25 pin use 17
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[03:58:21] <pfred1> pcw_home a more accurate answer would come if you asked simply What is your PWM mode set to?
[03:58:55] <A2Sheds> easy peasy
[03:58:58] <pfred1> the 2 simply confuses the issue
[03:59:25] <hatch789> pcw_home, ok Mode is set to 2 but when I turn AXIS on it still sends those servo drive pins up to 10v
[03:59:50] <pcw_home> Ahh but I was less interested in the answer than getting the mode set to 2
[04:00:09] <hatch789> ok :) so any idea why it's sending those pins up to 10v?
[04:00:17] <pfred1> then you should have said set PWM mode to 2
[04:00:48] <hatch789> if my mill were turned on right now I think it would fly at max speed on both my X & Y axis until it hit the limit switches LOL
[04:00:57] <hatch789> that would not be good :(
[04:00:59] <pcw_home> If you have the servo loop closed and the resolver is not working thats entirely possible
[04:01:01] <pcw_home> (and its still posiible when it works if the feedback is backwards)
[04:02:58] <pfred1> damn i knew it I'm intellectually peaking ATM
[04:03:31] <pfred1> http://www.facade.com/biorhythm/personal/?Name=Anonymous&Month=11&Day=16&Year=1964&tMonth=2&tDay=28&tYear=2012&range=14
[04:03:57] <pfred1> pcw_home sorry my logic is in overdrive
[04:03:59] <clytle374> pcw_home, isn't there some kind of function to stop that... same as if the encoder comes loose?
[04:04:13] <ssi> limit switches! :D
[04:04:40] <mikegg> tight following error limits are good too
[04:04:57] <pcw_home> Yes theres ferror and theres also a PID signal that can be used to stop if the drive is saturated
[04:05:08] <clytle374> I though I read something about integral wind up.. IDK
[04:05:27] <hatch789> ok I'm off to bed thank you for the help guys.
[04:05:38] <hatch789> pcw_home, you got my e-mail to send me the new bit file tomorrow?
[04:05:43] <pcw_home> (so a bad encoder causing a static runaway gets detected)
[04:05:44] <clytle374> ferror should work good
[04:05:45] <pcw_home> 'Nite
[04:05:56] <pcw_home> Yea some time tommorow
[04:06:30] <hatch789> ok ...just let me know what to do with it (in the e-mail) or point me to a URL telling me what to do with it
[04:07:23] <hatch789> you were also going to adjust the resolver driver voltage so it was not so high ...right?
[04:07:31] <pcw_home> the case where ferror fails is a encoder goes bad while holding position it no longer counter and integral windup generates full drive
[04:08:18] <cstop> run away!
[04:08:21] <pcw_home> so LinuxCNC doesnt know it moving so no ferror
[04:08:24] <clytle374> pcw_home, that is what I was thinking of.
[04:08:34] <pfred1> cstop look at the bones!
[04:09:00] <pcw_home> this can be caught with excessive drive detection (saturated drive)
[04:09:40] <cstop> pfred1 IC none
[04:09:51] <pfred1> cstop http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcxKIJTb3Hg
[04:09:53] <pcw_home> ou just install it in lib/firmware.hm2/7i43
[04:10:17] <pcw_home> ^^^^^^ for hatch789
[04:10:28] <hatch789> pcw_home, ok no building or anything funky... just plop it into the directory?
[04:11:12] <pcw_home> yep
[04:11:20] <hatch789> pcw_home, ok cool... you were also going to adjust the resolver driver voltage so it was not so high ...right? or do I need to start looking for matched sets of resistors?
[04:11:58] <pcw_home> well dropping it in the drive side is easier (no matching)
[04:12:27] <pcw_home> Ill look at whats needed to lower the drive
[04:12:40] <pcw_home> bbl sleepy time...
[04:12:50] <hatch789> ok night ...me too
[04:13:00] <cstop> ta ta
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[04:29:00] <cstop> any experience with open DRO? http://sourceforge.net/projects/opendro/
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[04:35:00] <cstop> elmo401 has changed to elmo40 in just moments! ;)
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[04:39:33] <clytle374> So I was yelled at today for a manufacture not sending the correct parts for a machine. To my dismay I was informed that since I work on them, I represent the manufacture.
[04:40:14] <pfred1> clytle374 care to repeat that in English?
[04:41:25] <clytle374> What are you the English teacher today? Sorry to hear you can't make sense of that.
[04:41:42] <cstop> accept the burden of your post.... :)
[04:42:00] <pfred1> well who yelled at you?
[04:42:21] <clytle374> A customer that bought 5 POS lathes
[04:42:24] <cstop> We can share the burden ;)
[04:42:48] <pfred1> ah ha a customer now see I figured it was either your boss or the manufacturer
[04:42:54] <clytle374> I come in as a 3rd party to fix them and he blames me for getting the wrong parts
[04:43:19] <clytle374> And somehow I 'represent' them because I work on them ????
[04:43:40] <pfred1> you represent yourself you brought the wrong parts I'd have been pissed too
[04:44:44] <clytle374> That's not how it worked out. The part number should match your order
[04:45:10] <cstop> I know the brand POS, but here in Vermont POS means Piece of Sh_t
[04:45:58] <pfred1> cstop just on principal I think I couldn't get involved with any brand named POS
[04:46:04] <clytle374> I didn't know there really was a POS brand. This is the Piece brand
[04:46:51] <pfred1> chevy had a problem marketing Novas in south america seems there nova meant no go
[04:46:54] <cstop> Well, when I get the wrong part, I"m angryb at everyone!
[04:47:23] <clytle374> me too, but in my face yelling almost got out of hand
[04:47:23] <pfred1> tough to sell a car with a name like no go
[04:47:56] <cstop> POS is an Eastern European maker/ seller of lathes
[04:48:06] <pfred1> not here they ain't!
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[04:48:16] <pfred1> get that POS out of here!
[04:48:27] <clytle374> I've seen TOS, but never POS
[04:48:52] <clytle374> Are the POSes any good?
[04:49:23] <cstop> You might have me there it's late, and the wine has started to taste rather good
[04:50:02] <pfred1> wine hangs me over too badly
[04:50:11] <clytle374> TOS is okay if it isn't a odd voltage 50hz machine that all the motors burn up on
[04:50:27] <iwoj> hey all y'all
[04:50:50] <clytle374> howdy
[04:50:53] <cstop> Now I remember...POS and JET are the same ;-)
[04:50:57] <iwoj> I've been working on my cnc linux box trying to get the machine to lower its latency
[04:51:08] <iwoj> I found this handy webpage: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?FixingSMIIssues
[04:51:20] <iwoj> which recommends disabling SMI
[04:51:30] <iwoj> has anyone done this before?
[04:51:43] <pfred1> if SMI is hitting you you either disable it or use a different PC
[04:52:13] <pfred1> there is no third option available
[04:52:23] <iwoj> yeah. i'm trying to disable it.
[04:52:44] <pfred1> the instructions work
[04:52:53] <cstop> One could lower their standards and accept dysfunction
[04:53:36] <pfred1> with SMI my latency score was 135000ns turned off 18000ns
[04:53:48] <iwoj> nice.
[04:54:04] <clytle374> is the hardware newish?
[04:54:14] <cstop> did you get a better interest rate on your auto loan?
[04:54:16] <pfred1> my machine? lord no
[04:54:23] <iwoj> i'm just working my way through the vocabulary of all this. It looks like i've got an installation of EMC2 that is "run in place"
[04:54:34] <iwoj> the hardware is very newish.
[04:54:43] <pfred1> has a designed for windows 98 sticker on the side of it
[04:54:56] <clytle374> iwoj, what is it exactly?
[04:55:30] <pfred1> iwoj you're not trying to use a craptop are you?
[04:55:50] <clytle374> iwoj, is it an atom?
[04:56:08] <pfred1> clytle374 if it was we probably wouldn't be having this conversaiton
[04:56:25] <pfred1> they score sub 5000ns
[04:56:26] <iwoj> no, not a craptop
[04:56:48] <iwoj> it's a coreduo, i think.
[04:56:52] <iwoj> socket7
[04:56:58] <clytle374> pfred1, not with smi is on, iirc
[04:57:13] <iwoj> asus motherboard
[04:57:16] <pfred1> I have a core2 craptop I have to say its performance never impressed me
[04:57:49] <pfred1> iwoj you should look into dedicating a core to the RT task
[04:58:01] <pfred1> supposedly that helps a lot
[04:58:05] <clytle374> iwoj, did you turn off hyperthreading, if it has it?
[04:58:10] <pfred1> oh and disable hyperthreading
[04:58:15] <pfred1> jynx!
[04:59:08] <pfred1> iwoj so now you really have your work cut out for you
[04:59:48] <pfred1> iwoj cat /proc/cpuinfo to see what it is
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[05:02:52] <cstop> can one just install a non Nvidia video board to overcome that impediment?
[05:03:41] <clytle374> cstop, can't you just use the nv driver instead of the nvidia one?
[05:03:43] <pfred1> what is a compatible GPU to run with RTAI?
[05:03:56] <pfred1> I hear even the nv driver can be problematic
[05:04:13] <pfred1> I have a crappy old ATI card and I wouldn't rate it top shelf
[05:04:44] <pfred1> I seen folks having some problems with some of the intel stuff too
[05:05:00] <pfred1> I mean what's that leave?
[05:05:00] <cstop> Apian technology was good
[05:06:47] <iwoj> My cpuinfo: http://typewith.me/p/yrHsovbNPK
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[05:07:27] <pfred1> iwoj you should get good performance out of that
[05:07:50] <pfred1> just make sure HT is disabled and dedicate a single core to the RT process
[05:10:00] <clytle374> iwoj, what are your latency numbers?
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[05:12:22] <iwoj> they're over 100K
[05:12:39] <pfred1> yeah must be SMI there could be HT though I never dealt with it
[05:13:43] <cstop> Must one use a terminal to change the RTApi file?
[05:14:03] <pfred1> cstop what's that?
[05:14:16] <clytle374> cstop, for smi?
[05:14:21] <pfred1> the RTApi file I know what a terminal is
[05:14:22] <cstop> yes
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[05:15:27] <pfred1> why would you have to use a terminal to edit a file?
[05:15:34] <clytle374> smi disable is not as straight forward as it would sound
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[05:15:59] <iwoj> So, first step: disabling SMI.
[05:16:19] <iwoj> I've followed the instructions on the linuxcnc.org website but I've run into this problem:
[05:16:20] <iwoj> http://typewith.me/p/UAejYsZ5Ad
[05:16:34] <iwoj> Any ideas why it doesn't like the smi module?
[05:16:36] <cstop> if I follow places/ computer /filesystem/etc/ emc2/ etc, Changes are rejected
[05:17:18] <clytle374> try hyperthreading first, smi disable can hurt to
[05:18:30] <pfred1> I thought you could never get decent latency if SMI was enabled
[05:18:41] <pfred1> just because of what SMI is
[05:18:44] <iwoj> hyperthreading's a bios thing?
[05:18:52] <clytle374> iwoj, yes
[05:19:12] <iwoj> okay, I'll drop hyperthreading
[05:19:33] <clytle374> pfred1, if you look at the rtai readme there is lots about it. and disabling it all isn't the best route
[05:19:35] <pfred1> intel's idea of a shell game
[05:20:15] <iwoj> great.
[05:20:20] <pfred1> I wasn't aware there were shades of gray between on and off
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[05:21:54] <clytle374> pfred1, smi off is a shotgun approach
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[05:22:14] <pfred1> clytle374 it is an interrupt
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[05:22:32] <pfred1> either its there or it isn't
[05:22:51] <iwoj> clytle374, there's nothing on hyperthreading in my bios...
[05:22:56] <pfred1> what are yo usaying you can selectively ignore it?
[05:24:07] <iwoj> there's a flag for SpeedStep and a flag for C-STATE
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[05:27:10] <iwoj> how do i tell if my emc2 system is "run in place"
[05:27:12] <clytle374> iwoj, you might niot have hyperthreading then,
[05:27:12] <iwoj> ?
[05:27:25] <clytle374> iwoj, is it a live disk?
[05:27:28] <pfred1> or no way of disabling it
[05:27:29] <iwoj> no
[05:27:40] <iwoj> it's installed on a partition
[05:27:54] <clytle374> iwoj, from a live emc disk?
[05:28:03] <iwoj> yes
[05:28:23] <clytle374> iwoj, then it is installed... Not RIP
[05:28:36] <iwoj> got it.
[05:28:37] <iwoj> thanks.
[05:29:02] <cstop> is it not possible to edit the rtapi.conf file in the gedit app?
[05:29:26] <clytle374> pfred1, smi a bunch of things. I'm not an expert... but the readme is there for all to see.. Including several instances of it is important
[05:29:49] <pfred1> cstop would depend on who owned the file and who was running the editor
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[05:30:53] <pfred1> clytle374 the peole that put SMI into PCs had the best of intentions but one of them wasn't RT tasks I'm afraid
[05:31:15] <pfred1> so yeah you are losing stuff disabling it I know that
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[05:31:41] <pfred1> but the PC is worthless to me unless it can perform the function I set it to
[05:32:41] <clytle374> disabling it can also hurt latency the way I understand it. So only disabling the parts that hurt it is the idea
[05:33:20] <pfred1> there is no way turning an interrupt off is going to increase your latency
[05:33:33] <pfred1> look up what the word interrupt means
[05:33:53] <bossseries1> Anyone used a hostmot2 smart serial interface yet?
[05:34:10] <pfred1> in the world of computers it means everything comes to a hault until a service os performed full stop period the end
[05:35:05] <iwoj> anyone have an idea why i can't load the SMI module?
[05:35:05] <iwoj> http://typewith.me/p/UAejYsZ5Ad
[05:35:16] <iwoj> the file is there
[05:35:39] <iwoj> but it's complaining:
[05:35:39] <iwoj> insmod: error inserting '/usr/realtime-2.6.32-122-rtai/modules/rtai_smi.ko': -1 No such device
[05:37:19] <pfred1> no such device means you don't have the device in your /dev directory
[05:37:24] <iwoj> (It's counter-intuitive, but I have to enable this module to disable SMI.)
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[05:38:40] <pfred1> file not found would mean the module file itself was missing
[05:38:50] <iwoj> what device?
[05:40:19] <pfred1> the rtai device I think
[05:40:33] <pfred1> I had to make a udev rules file I don't use the CD image
[05:41:16] <pfred1> I use a locally compiled LinuxCNC well I use EMC2
[05:41:49] <pfred1> I thought the cd image came configured to give you the device etc.
[05:41:59] <iwoj> i have no idea what udev rules are. Downloading knowledge now...
[05:42:07] <iwoj> Please wait...
[05:42:20] <iwoj> ...
[05:42:51] <iwoj> ...
[05:42:52] <pfred1> iwoj do this ls /dev/rtai_shm
[05:43:20] <iwoj> no such file
[05:43:22] <pfred1> or perhaps ls /dev/rta*
[05:43:46] <pfred1> maybe the CD uses a different name?
[05:43:56] <pfred1> anything?
[05:44:00] <iwoj> oh, it's there now. I just had to launch the latency tester first.
[05:44:09] <pfred1> yeah that is what udev does
[05:44:12] <pfred1> it makes it
[05:44:19] <clytle374> pfred1, like I said smi isn't one thing.. yes it is an interrupt, but there are lots of them happening all the time. Feel free to RTM
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[05:44:27] <pfred1> personally I cna't stand it but it is the wave of the future
[05:46:06] <pfred1> you load and unload devices dynamically today
[05:46:38] <iwoj> this is all so annoying. Just to get one little homemade CNC machine working.
[05:47:03] <pfred1> not nearly as bad as scraping your knee learning how to ride a bicycle
[05:47:19] <iwoj> To think I've dumped about $5000 of time and money into getting this little bugger working.
[05:47:32] <iwoj> And I could have just bought one off the shelf.
[05:47:48] <iwoj> grr.
[05:48:01] <pfred1> iwoj I don't want to break your heart but I did this for $30 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHPKaHLzXes
[05:48:10] <iwoj> So I'm looking at the dev rules now...
[05:48:15] <bossseries1> I guess it's all relative. I sold my EMC'ed grizzly mini mill for $1500, and have less than that in my brigeport boss.
[05:48:16] * pfred1 just gave it some thought
[05:48:50] <bossseries1> But I came from emc1, so linuxcnc is kick ass easy compared to that...
[05:49:04] <iwoj> yeah, I'm building one of these: http://makeyourbot.org/
[05:49:06] <pfred1> by $30 I mean everything involved cost a total of #30 PC motor drives hardware all of it
[05:49:14] <bossseries1> nice
[05:49:23] <iwoj> it claims to be a $100 machine.
[05:49:28] <iwoj> no way.
[05:49:37] <pfred1> yes way
[05:50:33] <pfred1> I could have done it even cheaper today too
[05:50:34] <iwoj> stepper motors are pretty awesome… but back to the udev stuff.
[05:50:54] <pfred1> forget udev it worked exactly as it should have
[05:51:03] <iwoj> ?
[05:51:06] <pfred1> soon as you called the module it loaded the device
[05:51:30] <iwoj> the smi modules doesn't load though.
[05:51:44] <pfred1> well I think emc2 has a script that does the monkey business for you
[05:52:11] <Gensor> pfred1, do you have a bill of materials and drawings?
[05:52:14] <pfred1> the . emc-environment command
[05:52:38] <iwoj> pfred1: thanks. I was about to google "emc2 monkey business" ...
[05:52:42] <pfred1> Gensor there is this http://www.instructables.com/id/TB6560-Microstepping-Bipolar-Chopper-Stepper-Motor/
[05:53:02] <pfred1> Gensor and this http://www.instructables.com/id/300-Watt-Linear-Power-Supply/
[05:53:16] <pfred1> and this http://www.instructables.com/id/Parallel-Port-Break-Out-Board-BOB/
[05:53:48] <pfred1> oh and this helped some too http://www.instructables.com/id/Make-an-Acme-Tap/
[05:54:25] <pfred1> Gensor of course LinuxCNC being FOSS didn't strain my budget either :)
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[05:56:44] <pfred1> iwoj machine specific configuration can be a bit of a chore but once you're done you're done
[05:57:18] <iwoj> i can hope.
[05:57:56] <iwoj> just downloading the latest emc2-dev from git for the environment script...
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[05:58:26] <pfred1> iwoj this is what i did to configure mine http://pastebin.com/cYYqyKPX
[05:58:29] <iwoj> I think I'm going to have to throw a party once this thing is set-up.
[05:58:45] <pfred1> iwoj I didn't like the CD image
[05:59:07] <iwoj> pfred1, that's a golden link. Thanks man.
[05:59:19] <pfred1> you don't need to do any of that
[05:59:20] <Gensor> interesting
[05:59:25] <bossseries1> Anyone know if I only have to hookup RXD1 and TXD1 if I'm using a single smart serial device with hostmot2? I'm going 7i43 -> 7i47 -> 7i64
[05:59:27] <pfred1> the CD image does it all for you
[05:59:59] <pfred1> that is why they put it out so no one has to do all of that
[06:00:53] <bossseries1> Definitly use the CD image... It saves days, and just works.
[06:01:30] <iwoj> it's not working for me.
[06:01:51] <pfred1> it will you just have to configure it
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[06:04:19] <Tecan> opencam looks sweet
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[06:04:53] <iwoj> well that's just it. i'm still stuck trying to disable SMI.
[06:05:12] <iwoj> i have a feeling that once that's done, i'll have fixed the latency problems.
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[06:05:21] <pfred1> Tecan I'm not waiting I'm downloading now!
[06:05:45] <Tecan> hmmm
[06:05:59] <Tecan> i tried compiling it in gambas 2 but there are some issues
[06:06:06] <pfred1> wholly snokes it is still pretty young isn't it?
[06:06:18] <Tecan> its kinda old
[06:06:25] <pfred1> ah abandonware?
[06:06:47] <Tecan> i think its included in linuxemc might be wrong tho
[06:06:55] <pfred1> yeah 2006 date I see
[06:07:02] <Tecan> http://www.securetech-ns.ca/camm-linux.html < this looks kinda neat too
[06:07:23] <pfred1> it may have been included if someone finished it
[06:08:00] <Tecan> it compiles but its complaining about strings just gotta learn how to make the strings compile
[06:08:11] <Tecan> works with gambas 1
[06:08:55] <pfred1> cam is the weak link with Linux
[06:09:26] <pfred1> most use what solidworks?
[06:09:47] <Tecan> your thinking cad
[06:10:10] <pfred1> well cad isn't linux's strong suit either
[06:12:11] <Tecan> theres no time like real time
[06:14:02] <iwoj> pfred1: I can't find this emc-environment script you mentioned....
[06:14:14] <Tecan> wine runs autocad fine
[06:14:38] <Tecan> blender exports vector graphics
[06:15:05] <Tecan> not quite cad but it does the trick in a pinch
[06:16:26] <pfred1> iwoj now it may be called rip-environment
[06:17:06] <pfred1> my EMC is kind of old
[06:17:22] <pfred1> they're trying to get away from the EMC name
[06:18:09] <iwoj> thanks
[06:18:10] <pfred1> they've a bit of work ahead of them I regressively grepped the source tree and found over 55,000 occurrances of it in there
[06:19:28] <iwoj> nasty
[06:19:41] <pfred1> yeah their fingers are going to be pretty tired
[06:20:16] <iwoj> just recursively search and replace and re-run the tests.
[06:20:47] <iwoj> i'm sure that'll work just fine
[06:21:58] <pfred1> or just tell EMC it is all fixed now go away
[06:25:06] <iwoj> … oh i guess the only problem with running rip-environment is that I don't have a run in place system. it's installed on a partition.
[06:25:26] <pfred1> that isn't what run in place means
[06:25:42] <pfred1> run in place is a configuration option wiht building it locally
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[06:26:15] <pfred1> this is an arcane fact known only to folks who've built it locally :)
[06:27:06] <iwoj> phew. man. i'm learning too much.
[06:27:20] <iwoj> so i've found the rip-environment.in script
[06:27:27] <pfred1> yeah I'm not sure how it impacts a CD image install user
[06:27:49] <pfred1> there should be shortcuts on your desktop
[06:27:52] <iwoj> do i need to move it somewhere, or can I just run the sucker from the emc2 sources
[06:28:49] <iwoj> this script dies with "This script is only useful on run-in-place systems."
[06:29:08] <iwoj> round and round we go.
[06:29:17] <pfred1> if you build the emc2 sources you can configure it to run in place but you shouldn't have need to do any of that the cd install has done everything for you
[06:29:47] <pfred1> and your desktop shortcuts should setup your environment as you need it
[06:30:49] <iwoj> pfred1: yes, i've done all that. the problem is that my system's latency is too high to run the configured environment. i need to disable SMI.
[06:30:59] <pfred1> right
[06:31:23] <pfred1> there is risk but other than it works here I don't know what else to tell you
[06:31:37] <iwoj> i've followed the instructions for modifying rtai.conf with the smi module, but it doesn't want to load.
[06:32:06] <pfred1> you tried to load it after you enabled the environment?
[06:32:22] <pfred1> like start up the latency test then load it
[06:32:22] <iwoj> load it after?
[06:32:29] <iwoj> interesting. how?
[06:32:31] <pfred1> sure why not?
[06:32:53] <pfred1> lots of modules depend on other modules being loaded ahead of time
[06:33:29] <pfred1> what is the worst thing that can happen it already doesn't work
[06:34:07] <iwoj> how do i load the module?
[06:34:16] <pfred1> modprobe modulename
[06:34:28] <pfred1> well sudo modprobe modulename
[06:35:45] <iwoj> cnc@krakow:~$ sudo modprobe /usr/realtime-2.6.32-122-rtai/modules/rtai_smi.ko
[06:35:46] <iwoj> WARNING: All config files need .conf: /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist, it will be ignored in a future release.
[06:35:46] <iwoj> FATAL: Module /usr/realtime_2.6.32_122_rtai/modules/rtai_smi.ko not found.
[06:35:52] <pfred1> no
[06:36:04] <pfred1> sudo modprobe rtai_smi
[06:36:45] <iwoj> FATAL: Module rtai_smi not found.
[06:37:21] <iwoj> is this where I need to do something wwith udev?
[06:37:50] <pfred1> no that is telling you it cannot find the binary file
[06:38:21] <pfred1> then again it isn't in /usr/lib/modules now is it
[06:38:44] <pfred1> hmmm I'm going to have to look at the instructions
[06:39:07] <iwoj> the binary file is right at /usr/realtime-2.6.32-122-rtai/modules/rtai_smi.ko
[06:39:47] <iwoj> I'm working from this webpage: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?FixingSMIIssues
[06:40:39] <pfred1> so you edited rtapi.conf like it told you to?
[06:41:58] <iwoj> yup
[06:42:24] <pfred1> lsmod | grep rtai_smi
[06:43:25] <pfred1> seems there is a bit of an issue which conf file is actually active
[06:43:54] <iwoj> cnc@krakow:~$ lsmod | grep rtai
[06:43:54] <iwoj> rtai_math 21406 0
[06:43:54] <iwoj> rtai_sem 21551 1 rtapi
[06:43:54] <iwoj> rtai_fifos 20988 1 rtapi
[06:43:54] <iwoj> rtai_sched 156719 3 rtapi,rtai_sem,rtai_fifos
[06:43:55] <iwoj> rtai_hal 186236 4 rtapi,rtai_sem,rtai_fifos,rtai_sched
[06:44:09] <iwoj> it's definitely going to the right conf file
[06:44:17] <pfred1> how do you know?
[06:44:26] <iwoj> when I add the SMI lines, it doesn't start.
[06:44:30] <pfred1> you changed the conf file's name and emc wouldn't start?
[06:45:20] <pfred1> well I'd think now you're going to have to hand unload all of the modules in order to find out
[06:45:33] <iwoj> I added the SMI lines to the conf file and the latency test and EMC apps die with an error message:
[06:45:35] <iwoj> insmod: error inserting '/usr/realtime-2.6.32-122-rtai/modules/rtai_smi.ko': -1 No such device
[06:45:46] <iwoj> why?
[06:46:09] <iwoj> I've added the SMI module last in the list of modules
[06:46:22] <iwoj> and it's the only module that's causing problems.
[06:46:25] <pfred1> on he page it is first
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[06:46:44] <pfred1> well in the MODPATH
[06:46:48] <iwoj> MODULES="adeos rtai_hal rtai_ksched rtai_fifos rtai_shm rtai_sem rtai_math rtai_smi"
[06:46:52] <iwoj> it's last.
[06:47:06] <pfred1> did you add the MODPATH line?
[06:47:10] <iwoj> yup.
[06:47:23] <iwoj> hang on, let' me pastebin my conf file
[06:47:35] <pfred1> then the file you edited can't be the right one
[06:47:55] <iwoj> why not?
[06:48:06] <pfred1> rename it unload all your rtai modules then try to start emc
[06:48:16] <pfred1> because if you did all you say you did it should work
[06:48:17] <iwoj> http://pastebin.com/diKpkr1G
[06:48:48] <iwoj> I agree, it should work, according to the instructions.
[06:48:52] <iwoj> what would renaming do?
[06:48:59] <pfred1> do what i just said to do rename it unload all your rtai modules then try to start emc
[06:49:04] <iwoj> I know it works without the SMI stuff.
[06:49:24] <iwoj> ok
[06:49:26] <iwoj> hang on.
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[06:49:28] <pfred1> oh so you're saying since yo uedited the conf file emc won't evne start now
[06:49:48] <iwoj> yes.
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[06:50:02] <pfred1> that would suggest you are editing the correct file
[06:50:04] <iwoj> adding the SMI stuff stops EMC from starting
[06:50:10] <iwoj> yup.
[06:50:34] <iwoj> the problem's not the conf file. it's something about how it's trying to load the rtai_smi.ko file.
[06:52:22] <iwoj> this is the debug output from trying to run EMC with the SMI stuff: http://typewith.me/p/UAejYsZ5Ad
[06:55:58] <iwoj> pfred1, buddy. Still with me?
[06:56:31] <pfred1> yeah it looks like it should work
[06:57:43] <iwoj> but it isn't, man. it isn't.
[06:59:09] <pfred1> [ 1590.266090] RTAI: Intel chipset not found.
[06:59:13] <pfred1> ?
[06:59:45] <pfred1> maybe you don't have SMI?
[06:59:47] <iwoj> hmm...
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[07:00:42] <pfred1> type lspci
[07:01:49] <iwoj> http://pastebin.com/X6skD5QS
[07:01:58] <iwoj> loads of intel chipsets
[07:03:29] <pfred1> this is what intel chips look like http://pastebin.com/rB71bGQ8
[07:04:29] <pfred1> they say they're intel chips
[07:04:43] <MrSunshine> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEpsKnWZrJ8
[07:05:35] <iwoj> http://pastebin.com/4qNfB94R
[07:05:43] <iwoj> Yup. Got them.
[07:06:04] <MrSunshine> not until now i realy understand why they need to shrink chips to make them go faster =)
[07:06:16] <MrSunshine> to make the distances less ofc! =)
[07:06:27] <pfred1> MrSunshine takes time for singnals to propagate
[07:06:41] <iwoj> This discussion seems to suggest that the smi module doesn't recognise newer hardware and assumes that SMI isn't available to be disabled.
[07:06:41] <iwoj> http://mail.rtai.org/pipermail/rtai/2011-September/024760.html
[07:07:16] <pfred1> some systems are just unsuitable for RT
[07:07:27] <pfred1> for whatever reasons
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[07:07:58] <iwoj> argh.
[07:08:06] <pfred1> maybe somewhere there is an answer that fixes yours but you're going to have to hunt for it I'm afraid
[07:08:17] <pfred1> because you've done it right it looks like to me
[07:08:25] <pfred1> but it didn't work for you
[07:08:44] <iwoj> yeah. i'
[07:08:46] <iwoj> i'
[07:08:58] <iwoj> i'll dig through some RTAI discussions.
[07:09:08] <iwoj> thanks for your help.
[07:09:20] <pfred1> focus on your specific chips
[07:09:28] <pfred1> ICH10 Family
[07:09:30] <iwoj> good idea
[07:09:41] <pfred1> because there is something fishy going on there
[07:10:43] <pfred1> http://mail.rtai.org/pipermail/rtai/2011-September/024760.html
[07:11:00] <pfred1> exactly what happened to you
[07:13:22] <pfred1> this is the problem http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.linux.real-time.rtai/24969
[07:13:44] <iwoj> yup
[07:13:50] <iwoj> i'm right on this.
[07:14:03] <iwoj> what's magma?
[07:14:22] <pfred1> the name of the RTAI project I believe
[07:14:32] <pfred1> see RTAI is the Rt kernel module
[07:14:50] <pfred1> it is a separate project from LinuxCNC LinuxCNC just uses it
[07:15:51] <Tecan> make -j12
[07:16:01] <iwoj> delightful. i guess I'm going to download and compile RTAI from source
[07:16:12] <pfred1> it is what I did
[07:16:34] <pfred1> hey lok on the bright side at least you've the option
[07:16:51] <pfred1> of fixing it if you really want to
[07:18:23] <pfred1> but I'm out it is late here I have to go remember Rome wasn't built in a day
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[07:50:45] <DJ9DJ> moin
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[11:29:05] <pingufan> Hello, I would like to add some kind of Joystick to my mill. Can I use USB Joysticks ?
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[11:31:07] <jthornton> in 2.4 you can, I can't remember back as far as 2.3
[11:32:03] <pingufan> I understand that the joystick can operate x+y. But how do I operate z ?
[11:32:34] <pingufan> jthornton: I think about inserting a diferent harddisk and try the newest release.
[11:32:49] <mazafaka> you will probably need to hold some key
[11:33:14] <jthornton> there are examples on the wiki for a joypad
[11:33:18] <pingufan> on joystick or keyboard? (I have limited place at my mill)
[11:33:44] <jthornton> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Simple_Remote_Pendant
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[11:35:19] <pingufan> Ouch - I just looked at my distributor - they look like Scify thingies.
[11:36:02] <pingufan> A joypad is like the touchpad on a laptop?
[11:36:32] <jthornton> did you look at the picture in the link?
[11:39:42] <pingufan> I saw it right now. I thought that a joystick is one stick with two coordinates, possibly 1-2 buttons in addition.
[11:41:26] <pingufan> is it comfortable to work with it? (Out from practise)?
[11:41:56] <jthornton> confortable?
[11:42:26] <pingufan> comfortable
[11:42:43] <pingufan> easier than cursor buttons on keyboard
[11:42:50] <jthornton> I have one on my plasma to position the torch head
[11:43:15] <jthornton> yes it is easier than keypad buttons because I can take it with me to the location of the torch
[11:43:36] <pingufan> So you move around with the joypad in your hands. Ok.
[11:43:42] <pingufan> My mill is much smaller.
[11:45:57] <pingufan> Can I connect an additional numeric key-block to the PC and use this as cursor block replacement (use it as a set of function keys) while the normal keyboard remains unchanged in behaviour?
[11:46:12] <pingufan> Would make more sense
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[12:13:05] <mazafaka> you probably do not even need it.
[12:15:09] <mazafaka> the work itself is dirty, EMC *already* offers much enough in comparison to some another CNC software, and keep safety techniques high, it's what is only needed
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[14:38:02] <awallin> so everyone ordering raspberry-pi boards?
[14:39:02] <pjm> lol tried this morning at 6.01AM from rswww.com
[14:39:13] <pjm> but its 'register interest only'
[14:39:42] <awallin> is there any chance of linuxcnc on that ARM?
[14:39:50] <archivist> I was too lazy to get up early
[14:39:57] <pjm> lol
[14:40:21] <pjm> i was pretty pissed off that their 'big announcement' turned out to be 'we have resellers'
[14:40:58] <archivist> poor Farnell had a site crash :)
[14:41:09] <pjm> lol it was pretty much a ddos on rswww too
[14:41:27] <pjm> still apparently rswww get stock in on 5th march
[14:42:28] <archivist> a long queue is expected
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[14:43:37] <awallin> how is this different from beagleboard
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[17:18:50] <Loetmichel> re @ home
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[18:10:06] <IchGuckLive> hi all on a day that happens only every 4th year
[18:10:08] <joe9> is there a lot of axial force in a drill press? there shouldn't be, I think.
[18:10:56] <IchGuckLive> it depends on your break speed
[18:11:33] <IchGuckLive> as you move 40LBS in 100inch/sec and break at 30²/s
[18:11:48] <IchGuckLive> there i alot of force in the axis
[18:12:26] <IchGuckLive> the fix points to the frame will come loose soon
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[18:13:29] <IchGuckLive> joe9: is it growing real or even at development state
[18:14:01] <joe9> the mill? no, not yet. still working on the drill press.
[18:14:13] <joe9> I cannot get the drive sleeve out.
[18:14:32] <joe9> soaking it WD-40. tried tapping with a round dowel and a hammer. moved a mm.
[18:15:09] <IchGuckLive> CARAMBA availabvle
[18:15:26] <joe9> what is "CARAMBA"? let me google it.
[18:15:40] <IchGuckLive> this will give you more slitering
[18:16:12] <DJ9DJ> ei caaaaaraaaaamba :D
[18:16:44] <joe9> googling on caramba gives me all kinds of crap.
[18:16:57] <IchGuckLive> http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caramba_Chemie
[18:17:12] <IchGuckLive> i dident find the equal to engl
[18:17:43] <IchGuckLive> it makes things that are 50Years oxidentet move within 10min
[18:18:34] <IchGuckLive> At the beginning the focus was on rust removers for cleaning and lubrication
[18:18:36] <joe9> is it the equivalent of "Penetrating Blaster"
[18:19:37] <IchGuckLive> it works here in germany since 1918
[18:20:08] <IchGuckLive> i think almost 90% of all household own at least one product in a time
[18:21:02] <IchGuckLive> DJ9DJ: the slogen to the product is good
[18:21:11] <DJ9DJ> :)
[18:22:13] <IchGuckLive> the mechanik pulls and pulls
[18:22:42] <IchGuckLive> the yiung lady tattos all over comes with the spray gets it on and EI carammba it goes of
[18:24:13] <IchGuckLive> DJ9DJ: google pictures from "lena van de mars"
[18:24:39] <IchGuckLive> she is the mechanics from famous rally team
[18:25:02] <DJ9DJ> jo, know her from tv
[18:25:25] <IchGuckLive> powerfull wrench lady
[18:26:53] <IchGuckLive> joe9: what size cross table
[18:27:29] <IchGuckLive> 4x4
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[18:29:13] <joe9> IchGuckLive: if you were repairing a drill press and making it more accurate, would you use an "angular contact bearing" or an ABEC-3 ball bearing?
[18:30:09] <IchGuckLive> okto bearing as it is cheep in diameters below 2inch
[18:30:42] <jdhnc> I am far from an expert, but looking at the drawing, I didn't see any place that and angular contact bearing would help.
[18:30:45] <joe9> shaft diameter: 25mm, OD = 52mm, Wd = 15 mm
[18:32:40] <joe9> jdhnc: ok, thanks. I just read this: "Angular contact bearings are designed to take both axial and radial loads, unlike radial bearings which are made for radial loads only.  Consider that when using a drill press to push a drill into a work piece both axial and radial forces are at work.  Sort of makes you wonder what the designer was thinking, doesn’t it?  Take a look at a good American drill press, like a Clausing, and ...
[18:32:46] <joe9> ... you’ll find an angular contact bearing at the end of the spindle." from http://www.machinistblog.com/restoring-a-craftsman-15%E2%80%B3-drill-press/
[18:32:54] <joe9> and am wondering if I should have used them instead.
[18:35:35] <jdhnc> doesn't an angular contact bearing need a load bearing surface
[18:35:54] <jdhnc> otherwise, it is just using the radial component.
[18:36:20] <jdhnc> perhaps it just doesn't show in the drawing?
[18:36:47] <joe9> jdhnc: you know more than I do. I just read it off the internet and it kept me thinking. maybe, I am thinking too much.
[18:37:00] <jdhnc> I wouldn't count on that :)
[18:39:41] <IchGuckLive> joe9: http://www.skf.com/skf/productcatalogue/jsp/viewers/productTableViewer.jsp?tableName=1_3_4&maincatalogue=1&lang=en
[18:40:18] <IchGuckLive> this woudt it be http://www.skf.com/skf/productcatalogue/Forwarder?action=PPP&lang=en&imperial=false&windowName=null&perfid=129001&prodid=1290010205
[18:40:30] <mrsun_> http://i42.tinypic.com/35l6gl5.jpg yeey latest milling :P
[18:40:32] <joe9> IchGuckLive: cool, thanks.
[18:42:04] <IchGuckLive> it will cost here 15Euros so 24USD
[18:42:24] <joe9> IchGuckLive: thanks a lot. exactly what I need.
[18:42:39] <IchGuckLive> therefor we all here
[18:43:41] <jdhnc> mrsun: nice,what did you use to make it?
[18:44:02] <IchGuckLive> the 2NMA will give you mutch more quality at hard Dust oil and grease in the area so its on you to spend 35USD
[18:44:38] <joe9> ichgucklive, thanks a lot.
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[18:48:46] <IchGuckLive> joe9: Tusnelda the Germany Berlin Bearing store offers it at 6,5EUR http://www.ebay.de/itm/1-Pendelkugellager-1205-DKF-25-x-52-x-15-mm-/110802182651?pt=W%C3%A4lz_Kugel_Rollenlager&hash=item19cc5321fb
[18:48:55] <joe9> ok, thanks.
[18:49:15] <joe9> IchGuckLive: quick question, will the play increase/decrease with angular contact bearings?
[18:50:19] <IchGuckLive> is there a double bearing in plase or only one
[18:50:48] <joe9> there is a bearing on top, and this is the bearing closer to the drill bit at the bottom of the quill
[18:50:52] <joe9> or spindle
[18:51:15] <IchGuckLive> this will give you a smooth round run
[18:51:24] <IchGuckLive> so decrease
[18:51:34] <joe9> decreases, ok, cool. will go with these then.
[18:51:48] <IchGuckLive> if you can put 2 of this in playe and your done to 0.001
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[18:52:24] <MrSunshine> hmm, a woodworking cnc machine that feeds the stock throught itself, anyone know the name of it ?
[18:52:45] <joe9> oh, really. good to know. thanks.
[18:52:47] <IchGuckLive> as you see the numbers 27KN 19.000 RPM livetime it is well over your needs
[18:54:21] <archivist> MrSunshine, I have seen a fishing float grinding machine (cnc on balsa)
[18:56:55] <joe9> does anyone know how to convert the skf designation number (QJ 205 N2MA) to a manufacturer part number?
[18:57:12] <MrSunshine> http://best4sale.blog138.fc2.com/blog-entry-398.html there it is =)
[18:57:19] <joe9> I cannot search on that number in either mcmaster.com or mscdirect
[18:57:48] <MrSunshine> thats the type of machine im gonna build i think =)
[18:58:46] <MrSunshine> but for 1200mm stock =)
[18:59:13] <IchGuckLive> joe9: you are in atlanta or
[18:59:26] <joe9> IchGuckLive: I think the prices are for open bearings. It is probably not a good idea to use open bearings for drill press. Do you agree?
[18:59:38] <joe9> the ebay photo is an open bearing.
[18:59:46] <joe9> http://www.mcmaster.com/#angular-contact-ball-bearings/=ggn54h
[18:59:57] <joe9> double sealed ones are in the $100 range
[19:00:27] <joe9> $168 to be precise.
[19:01:45] <joe9> or, can I put some tape to seal it up?
[19:02:11] <IchGuckLive> http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=25+x+52+x+15&_sacat=0&_odkw=1205+dkf&_osacat=0&_trksid=p3286.c0.m270.l1313
[19:03:05] <joe9> http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=25+x+52+x+15+angular+contact+bearing&_sacat=0&_odkw=25+x+52+x+15+angular+contact+ber&_osacat=0&_trksid=p3286.c0.m270.l1313
[19:03:43] <joe9> the open ones are within my price range.
[19:04:02] <joe9> Is there something simple to convert the open ended one's to a sealed one.
[19:04:47] <IchGuckLive> look for 1205
[19:05:00] <joe9> ok, thakns.
[19:05:02] <joe9> thanks.
[19:09:32] <IchGuckLive> joe9: is this your mashine ? Craftsman 15″ Drill Press
[19:09:37] <joe9> yes.
[19:09:47] <joe9> central machinery 38142
[19:09:58] <joe9> sorry, no.
[19:10:05] <joe9> mine is central machinery 38142
[19:11:08] <IchGuckLive> 229.99USD
[19:11:34] <joe9> yes, I bought it used for $100. old but seems solid. want to remove the play on it.
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[19:12:05] <IchGuckLive> it has 800wats so go for simple 6205 ball bearings
[19:12:15] <IchGuckLive> for 4Dollar eatch
[19:12:19] <joe9> ok, thanks, will do.
[19:13:09] <joe9> IchGuckLive: I like the angular contact bearing if it gives less play. but, it is a bad idea (it seems) to use open ones on a drill press.
[19:13:12] <archivist> joe9, add end float removal and then even cheap bearings are working in their angular contact range
[19:13:32] <joe9> let me google "end float removal"
[19:13:50] <IchGuckLive> at 3600rpm max shour they will
[19:14:21] <archivist> a wavy spring under the top bearing so no vertical play at all
[19:15:04] <mikegg> the more I use this Tormach tooling system, the more I like it
[19:15:13] <joe9> archivist: that sounds like a very good idea. let me check up on it.
[19:15:20] <IchGuckLive> i read the skf data book on 6205 it says 14KN axial 7.5KnRadial thats well ok
[19:16:40] <IchGuckLive> joe9: so 6205-2RS is your need
[19:16:55] <joe9> IchGuckLive: I went with 6205-zz, just to have it sealed.
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[19:18:15] <jdhnc> does an angular contact bearing do any good, if there is no linear surface for the bearing to press against?
[19:19:30] <IchGuckLive> you need to press one on the other as a packet
[19:19:55] <IchGuckLive> the system will then work whin between them
[19:19:59] <IchGuckLive> so im off
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[19:20:05] <IchGuckLive> By
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[19:24:59] <jdhnc> joe9: did you check runout with the quill extended?
[19:25:53] <archivist> what is the quill to head play like anyway, is it adjustable
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[19:47:38] <joe9> jdhnc: there was no difference in the runout with the quill extended or not. it was 0.003 inches. with the chuck, it was different though, 0.015 inches. I think the weight of the chuck is somehow amplifying it.
[19:47:48] <joe9> tried with a small chuck too, same runout.
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[19:54:44] <joe9> i am not able to get the drive sleeve out from the head. This step: "Use a hardwood dowel and tap the drive sleeve assembly [photo 8] out from below that is, stick the dowel into the head from the bottom side and use a dead blow hammer to tap the drive sleeve out toward the top.  It is a loose press fit but tap evenly so you don't cock it as you drive it out." from ...
[19:54:51] <joe9> ... http://www.machinistblog.com/restoring-a-craftsman-15%E2%80%B3-drill-press/
[19:55:09] <joe9> I am soaking it with "Penetrating Blaster". curious if there is a tool that can help me.
[19:56:09] <jdhnc> PB blaster is great... smell never seems to go away though.
[19:56:28] <joe9> jdhnc: I hear that it can cause cancer too.
[19:56:37] <joe9> but, not sure of what else I can do.
[19:56:43] <jdhnc> so does everything else
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[20:40:16] <archivist> joe9, photo 5 is end float adjustment, you can remove any play but that adds force to the bearings, a spring washer will set the maximum and allow some expansion with temperature
[20:40:47] <archivist> does not look like much/any space to do it though
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[22:24:22] <danimal_laptop> hi
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[22:30:49] <DJ9DJ> gn8
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