#emc | Logs for 2012-01-16

[00:01:34] <Jymmm> Valen: No, most irc networks are "public" so to speak.
[00:02:38] <Jymmm> Valen: See, you are more concerned about security than you think you are =)
[00:03:06] <Valen> i mean i'm not the kind of person who needs to use tor to connect to IRC
[00:03:18] <Jymmm> You never know =)
[00:03:25] <Jymmm> Though I have never tried it
[00:03:32] <Valen> it'd probably be easier than any other method lol
[00:03:39] <Valen> apt-get install tor and all
[00:03:47] <Valen> but less reliable
[00:03:54] <Jymmm> ah, true.
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[00:06:04] <Jymmm> Hi Tom_itx
[00:10:50] <Tom_itx> hi jymmmmmmm
[00:11:04] <Jymmm> I picked up a nice pack last week, now trying to figure out how/what to pack in it =)
[00:11:31] <Jymmm> For pics only... I got the black one locally http://www.surplusplanet360.com/Tobago-Cargo-Tactical-Pack-Voodoo-Tactical-15-7866.html#
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[00:16:18] <Jymmm> the main compart has a ful zipper, and can be unzipped from the BOTTOM if you need to get stuff down there, nice feature I thought. Never seen it before.
[00:16:39] <Jymmm> well bottom or top, or both. your choice.
[00:17:43] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Do you mount your own smt uC yourself, of have them "stuffed" for you?
[00:18:15] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: I'm kinda interested in learning atmel, but all require a pcb of some sort.
[00:18:43] <Tom_itx> i do my own
[00:18:56] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: you design your own pcb's too?
[00:19:02] <Tom_itx> yep
[00:19:06] <clytle374> I learned them on a bread board, the 1200 and 8535...
[00:19:55] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Hmmm, ok. What I'd really like is some sort of "generic" arduino board that one could use in "production" so to speak.
[00:20:25] <Jymmm> design on a fancy ardunio, then mass produce on a generic slimmed down version.
[00:21:15] <jdhNC> RBBB, replace the osc. with an xtal if you need precision
[00:21:43] <Jymmm> jdhNC: was that to me?
[00:21:47] <jdhNC> yes
[00:22:12] <Jymmm> jdhNC: Well, not just the OSC, but also the usb chip, etc
[00:22:26] <Jymmm> (usb to ttl iirc)
[00:22:28] <jdhNC> it doesn't have a usb chip
[00:22:34] <Jymmm> mine does =)
[00:23:02] <Tom_itx> you have an uno?
[00:23:11] <Tom_itx> or ftdi?
[00:23:24] <jdhNC> http://shop.moderndevice.com/products/rbbb-pcb
[00:23:29] <Jymmm> duemilanove
[00:23:53] <Jymmm> http://arduino.cc/en/Main/arduinoBoardDuemilanove
[00:24:54] <Jymmm> FT232RL
[00:25:00] <Tom_itx> yup
[00:25:38] <Jymmm> I guess the newer adruinos dont come with that anymore
[00:26:47] <Jymmm> I was thinking/hoping AVD Studio could read the eeprom/flash via ISP and suck out the .hex files.
[00:27:17] <Jymmm> then use those to program "generic" version
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[00:28:00] <Jymmm> I have access to ISP and JTAG at work.
[00:29:56] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: you think that would work?
[00:30:05] <Jymmm> LOL http://comedy.video.yahoo.com/?lid=24038736&vid=27855957
[00:30:14] <Tom_itx> you should be able to find the source anyway
[00:30:31] <Tom_itx> the usb is a custom lufa ver in new ones
[00:30:59] <Tom_itx> you can probably get the main chip via isp
[00:31:37] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: cool, I REALLY don't feel like learning c/c++ all over again. and for what I want to do its pretty simple stuff.
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[01:34:02] <Valen> Jymmm: check out Tom_itx's boards if you want to play with AVRs
[01:34:33] <Valen> if you want to play in the shallow end of the pool there are point and click "programming languages" for aurdino i think
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[01:42:01] <UnderSampled> Is there a gcode generator from blender using blender's curves/paths?
[01:42:10] <UnderSampled> I see http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?GcodeGenerator , but it isn't for paths
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[01:47:20] <skunkworks_> UnderSampled: http://www.cnczone.com/forums/opensource_software/95964-blender_gcode_mgcodegenerator.html
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[01:59:52] <Jymmm> LawrenceSeattle: as in the Canuck?
[02:00:02] <Jymmm> Valen: Which bords are you speaking of?
[02:00:28] <Valen> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/boards/USB_Breakout/USB_Breakout_index.php
[02:00:43] <Valen> ey Tom_itx restart your modem already ;-P
[02:01:02] <Jymmm> or at least turn it on =)
[02:01:35] <Jymmm> or feed the squirrel
[02:02:01] <Tom_itx> oh hang on
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[02:02:07] <Valen> lol
[02:02:20] <Jymmm> Valen: think he's feeding it?
[02:02:41] <Valen> hopefully hurling it out the window, driving to the shops and getting one that doesn't suck so much ass
[02:02:56] <Valen> but probably not
[02:03:22] <Jymmm> Valen: Well, if he tosses that 300 baud modem out the window, it probably hurt someone and put a crater in the ground
[02:03:39] <Valen> oh its a high speed cable or adsl or something connection he has
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[02:03:48] <Valen> it just slows to a crawl every day or two
[02:03:52] <Valen> try it now Jymmm
[02:04:01] <Jymmm> woohoo
[02:04:45] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: well shit, I didn't realize you made multiple boards. Do you have something like I was describing?
[02:05:49] <Jymmm> bbiab
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[02:15:25] <Tom_itx> the atmega32U2 breakout is available
[02:16:09] <clytle374> pcw_home, got some questions about the 422 stuff
[02:19:11] <clytle374> thinking a 5i20, 7I48. any reason to use 7i37 when I plan to use a 7I74? for some other serial boards?
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[03:05:14] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: You have a price sheet or order page?
[03:08:52] <ve7it> Jymmm, another Lawrence on channel... A little south of me
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[03:09:23] <Jymmm> ve7it: Ah, I thought you just headed south of the border for a moment =)
[03:10:12] <ve7it> I have no papers (passport)... never leave home
[03:10:30] <Jymmm> lol
[03:12:12] <ve7it> Canadian passports are only good for 4 1/2 years.... a real pain to keep renewing them as well as the cost
[03:13:15] <Jymmm> Yeah, that's a pain
[03:13:27] <Jymmm> what about birth cirtificate?
[03:13:31] <Jymmm> certificate
[03:14:08] <ve7it> good until I die.... but passport required for most travel now
[03:14:22] <Jymmm> ah
[03:15:20] <ve7it> airlines are really sticky.... they even refuse to let you board with a damaged passport
[03:15:36] <Jymmm> bastards
[03:16:23] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Is your USB Breakout board usb powered? And is it capable of ISP ?
[03:20:32] <Tom_itx> it is usb powered
[03:20:43] <Tom_itx> if you use isp you'll erase the bootloader
[03:20:55] <Tom_itx> use flip or dfu programmer
[03:20:59] <Jymmm> Can I replace the bootloader using ISP ?
[03:21:01] <Valen> I program mine over USB
[03:21:09] <Tom_itx> you can
[03:21:14] <Tom_itx> but there's no reason to
[03:21:20] <Valen> just plug usb in press button and run loader
[03:21:37] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: I can use USB to load hex files?
[03:21:39] <Tom_itx> Valen, i forgot... do you have one of these?
[03:21:44] <Tom_itx> yes
[03:21:52] <Valen> i have 2!
[03:21:57] <Valen> i want to have capital numbers
[03:22:11] <Valen> like "i have TWO!" but in numeral form
[03:22:19] <Tom_itx> heh
[03:22:29] <Valen> using usb for loading is much quicker and easier
[03:23:11] <Jymmm> Valen: Tht's fine, I just wasn't sure if it could do what I wanted via usb
[03:23:34] <Valen> 's ok, i'm just saying its awesome ;->
[03:24:18] <Jymmm> I want to "develop" on an arduino, suck the hex out of it and load the proggy into Tom_itx's usb board.
[03:24:37] <Tom_itx> different chip different peripherals probably
[03:24:41] <Tom_itx> but similar
[03:24:56] <Tom_itx> the arduino you have is an atmega328
[03:25:06] <Jymmm> same code base, just less room?
[03:25:36] <Valen> how many do you want to make?
[03:25:37] <Tom_itx> i'd have to double check on the space
[03:25:59] <Valen> would they be binary compatible?
[03:26:02] <Jymmm> no worries, not in a hurry at all
[03:27:03] <Jymmm> And as a side note.... FSCK XBee!
[03:27:59] <Valen> arduino is still C ish at least some of it anyway
[03:28:18] <Valen> using "real" c libs isn't much harder
[03:28:28] <Valen> the pita is getting the toolchain working
[03:28:41] <Tom_itx> not under windows :)
[03:28:51] <Tom_itx> i use winavr
[03:28:54] <Jymmm> heh
[03:28:55] <Valen> bah!
[03:28:56] <Valen> ;-P
[03:29:26] <Jymmm> Valen: Just sue the right tool for the job. No excuse now that VM's are mainstream.
[03:29:26] <Tom_itx> some enjoy beating their head on a rock
[03:29:34] <Jymmm> s/sue/use/
[03:30:16] <Valen> actually it wasn't that bad in linux
[03:30:36] <Jymmm> If I get a mobo to test with, I want to create a bootable VM setup.
[03:30:36] <Valen> apt-get install avrgcc dfu-programmer takes care of it
[03:31:08] <Valen> need to use a recent ubuntu to pull in support for the newer chips but thats about all
[03:31:26] <Tom_itx> i was gonna mention new chip support
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[03:40:24] <Jymmm> Just ubuntu, not debian?
[03:41:41] <Tom_itx> either one works
[03:41:49] <Jymmm> k
[03:41:57] <Tom_itx> i know rue_mohr uses debian
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[03:44:09] <Jymmm> DFU = is that a device-to-device "copier" of sorts?
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[04:02:43] <Tom_itx> http://dfu-programmer.sourceforge.net/
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[04:15:06] <NewBee> Hey all...
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[04:17:03] <NewBee> <tap> <tap> is this thing on?
[04:17:18] <NewBee> ?ello?
[04:20:31] <Spida> yes
[04:21:02] <NewBee> Hey cool....looking for advice....want to get into the wonderful world of EMNC2
[04:23:18] <NewBee> began researching...but a little unclear of the 'driver requirements'...then got side tracked (for a few days) on the audrino stuff
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[04:24:27] <NewBee> damn...back button killed the 'popout java' window...
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[04:26:02] <NewBee> yeah....java clients problematic
[04:32:31] <NewBee> looking for a good source for getting started...like to start with a 3-axis device, later upgrading to a 5-axis.
[04:33:18] <NewBee> Hoping to hold an 'air cut off tool' with a diamond encrusted blade to trim down bolders to something useable
[04:34:27] <NewBee> any ideas?
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[04:51:26] <NewBee> bummer....
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[05:45:07] <UnderSampled> are gcodes in inches?
[06:07:24] <ve7it> usually inches or mm, but if you build and calibrate machine using furlongs, it will run programs in furlongs
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[06:26:37] <Jymmm> G20 Inch input (equivalent to G70)
[06:26:37] <Jymmm> G21 Metric input (equivalent to G71 )
[06:27:26] <Jymmm> If you see g20/21 at the beginning of a program, that should give you an idea
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[10:13:19] <awallin_> humm, indonesian post on the list..
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[13:18:23] <MrSunshine> hmm im thinking for pcb prototyping, build a plotter or a milling machine ... :P
[13:18:31] <MrSunshine> a milling machine i could drill it also with the machine
[13:20:47] <awallin_> try googling for lpkf if you want to see commercial ones
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[15:21:46] <TRW_Aguascalient> Hi some body with experience with the mesa 5i20 card?
[15:22:10] <cradek> hi, go ahead and ask your real question
[15:23:09] <TRW_Aguascalient> i have the rev H and the manual from mesa.com does not shows the TB1 connector
[15:24:15] <TRW_Aguascalient> is this connector for a secondary 5V connection from a external power supply
[15:24:24] <TRW_Aguascalient> ?
[15:26:26] <cradek> if you hang around perhaps someone will have the answer
[15:27:28] <pcw_home> This is a protected 5V source (up to 2A) for external cards
[15:30:12] <TRW_Aguascalient> ok thanks a lot
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[15:35:54] <skunkworks> Dad has been gantry running again... we had a lighning strike we think.. that took out one of the stepper drives... (5 phase 8 amp berger laher drive that we had no luck finding an inexpensive replacement) so we replaced that stepper with a smaller stepper. worked great.. (software step generation so far)
[15:36:14] <skunkworks> top speed of about 100ipm for now.
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[15:38:03] x__ is now known as micges
[15:43:27] <skunkworks> it could be faster - but all we had for gearing was a 5:1 belt reduction.. Which might be a bit low.
[15:43:33] <skunkworks> 4:1
[15:43:46] <skunkworks> the original stepper was 1:1
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[16:00:10] <MrSunshine> gah if i only had the woodworking area ready so i could do casting patterns =)
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[18:21:39] <skunkworks> pcw_home: do you keep the bit files somewhere that anyone could get them?
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[18:31:25] <cncbasher> skunkworks> which bit file ?
[18:33:36] <skunkworks> I was just wondering in general. Seems that others might need the exact same file that he has already made.
[18:34:16] <cncbasher> most are avaliable , depends on the config of course
[18:36:57] <cncbasher> either from his website , the only ones i dont have is the 5i25
[18:37:28] <cncbasher> iv'e not looked at compiling the files for the 5i25 as i dont have one here
[18:47:19] <pcw_home> All common 5I25 bitfiles are in the distribution zip file (just updated last week)
[18:48:25] <pcw_home> the source in the zipfiles includes all PIN_XXX files (139 currently)
[18:49:33] <skunkworks> cool'
[18:49:53] <cncbasher> thanks for the update pcw !
[18:51:35] <pcw_home> Sebastian now has a HM2 buildbot setup so eventually everything should be available there
[18:51:37] <pcw_home> (obscure options might need to be build-on demand to not waste to much buildbot HP on bitfiles only 1 or 2 peole use)
[18:51:56] <pcw_home> too and people
[18:54:35] <awallin_> some more VD madness: http://www.anderswallin.net/2012/01/graph-filters/
[18:59:00] <Jymmm> awallin_: They cured that with penicillin long long ago
[19:02:27] <Jymmm> awallin_: And what are you doing exactly? I've V-Carved many TTF's without issue fwiw.
[19:03:04] <awallin_> Jymmm: developing cam-algorithms... what did you use for producing the v-carving g-code ?
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[19:14:12] <jthornton> awallin_: are you Anders Wallin?
[19:14:38] <awallin_> yup
[19:26:39] <cradek> awallin_: your voronoi progress is very exciting
[19:26:56] <cradek> I'd be so thrilled to see foss v-carving
[19:27:30] <IchGucksLive> sudo nautilus
[19:27:36] <IchGucksLive> B)
[19:27:53] <cradek> hm, seems like your arcs or splines (?) are wrong - your curvy letters are jagged in http://www.anderswallin.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/interior_abc_offsets.png
[19:28:17] <IchGucksLive> awallin_: did you check the Vpython
[19:28:20] <cradek> (I didn't read back; I bet you know this already)
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[20:34:01] <andypugh> pcw_home: I wonder if there is a niche for a very simple sserial board that just does isolated potentiometer emulation and fwd and reverse switches for VFDs?
[20:35:13] <andypugh> (Yes, OK, so I am looking at 4 unpopulated RJ45s and a VFD and wondering what to do...)
[20:49:57] <MrSunshine> hmm can emc output a variable frequency dependant on how fast the spindle should go ?
[20:50:05] <MrSunshine> insted of pwm
[20:51:07] <MrSunshine> LM331 would be neat as its linearity is to 0.01% =)
[20:51:10] <skunkworks> MrSunshine: sure - you would hook the commanded spindle speed though a stepgen in velocity mode.
[20:52:26] <MrSunshine> hmm but how does forward/rev work on a vfd if you only have a 0 - 10V signal ...
[20:52:50] <skunkworks> normally then you would use a bit for forward/reverse.
[20:52:59] <skunkworks> or 2
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[21:01:22] <PCW> andypugh: yes we have a 2 channel analog out + dir/ena we are working on (plus a 6 channel Analog I/O)
[21:01:24] <PCW> (we have existing customer that need this for 150 away feet analog I/O, piping the analog that far is not good...)
[21:02:51] <Jymmm> Gawd, does ANYONE make a Good laser AIW that doesn't cost $0.05/pg to print?!
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[21:05:22] <andypugh> Jymmm: Buy office laser with toner from eBay, print 1000 pages, buy another?
[21:05:54] <Jymmm> andypugh: that sounds annoying =)
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[21:12:24] <andypugh> PCW: Once again I invent an existing product. :-) I have this idea for a cylindrical device for transporting goods on a solid surface....
[21:12:44] <Jymmm> a tube?
[21:13:20] <syyl_> you could chisel it out of a rock!
[21:14:14] <Jymmm> what is a chisel?
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[21:14:50] <andypugh> And, in other news, why the heck did I get involved in an Aram thread on the mailing list?
[21:15:51] <cradek> inexperience? hubris?
[21:16:15] <PCW> We've been meaning to make a separate spindle DAC component for quite a while. With your new autoconf stuff
[21:16:17] <PCW> (and our tools for making the endpoint process data records exportable) its really simple to do now
[21:16:45] <andypugh> cradek: No, I know better by now. But perhaps it was a genuinely interesting question?
[21:17:02] <cradek> andypugh: that would have been about #12 on my list
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[21:19:01] <andypugh> If anyone is interested: http://www.conceptmachinery.com/ He has spent a great deal of money, but needs to learn about presentation.
[21:19:34] <andypugh> Talking of which, Pico and Mesa ought to look at their websites, too, if I might be so bold.
[21:19:42] <PCW> so does the torque just ramp up or does it just grab?
[21:20:19] <skunkworks> stupid question... Do you guys have your machines setup so if you start spinning the jog wheel and it is set to x, y or z - it automatically changes to manual?
[21:20:33] <skunkworks> (if it is in mdi)
[21:20:34] <andypugh> Hand-tapping it builds up, but they tend to break on the back-stroke that we were always told to do.
[21:21:16] <PCW> even a fairly slow spindle seem like it would have enough inertia to snap a tap
[21:21:42] <andypugh> My limited experience hand tapping is that you think "this is getting a bit stiff, best break the chip", "oops. now it is really stuck"... "bugger"
[21:21:57] <PCW> Yep
[21:22:00] <cradek> yep
[21:22:10] <skunkworks> :)
[21:22:26] <cradek> but if you can turn it back and forth 20 times without getting frustrated often it'll come out
[21:22:48] <andypugh> My lathe has an M3 tap in it, with a screw head glued on top :-)
[21:22:55] <skunkworks> heh
[21:23:16] <skunkworks> we have tap extractors that have worked exactly once.
[21:23:26] <syyl_> those with the fingers?
[21:23:35] <syyl_> that go in the flutes of the tap?
[21:23:44] <skunkworks> (4-40 tap that broke off in a electrical panel)
[21:23:46] <skunkworks> yes
[21:24:00] <cradek> I've never bothered to buy those; they look hopeless
[21:24:00] <andypugh> I have managed to smash the tap up with a punch a few times.
[21:24:04] <syyl_> they dont work on broken taps ;)
[21:24:32] <cradek> andypugh: yes but the bits of tap left over in there just destroy the next tap...
[21:24:38] <syyl_> what works for me often, plunge it out with a carbide endmill
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[21:24:53] <andypugh> You need to get all the bits out firsgt
[21:25:04] <PCW> 4-40 extractor? that must have weensy little pins
[21:25:12] <skunkworks> now you have broken carbide in the hole... what removes carbide? ;)
[21:25:14] <cradek> I try to do all tapping first (or asap) and just start over if it breaks.
[21:25:22] <syyl_> uhm
[21:25:26] <syyl_> glue a screw head on
[21:25:27] <skunkworks> pcw: yes - I was suprised it worked.
[21:25:29] <syyl_> and walk away ;)
[21:25:51] <skunkworks> (dad has a bit more patience than me)
[21:25:56] <syyl_> na, most time it works
[21:26:14] <syyl_> or smashing with a punch and picking with a scriber
[21:26:19] <syyl_> + shopair
[21:26:19] <andypugh> Another time, I went through from the other side, and it pushed/turned its way out in front of the screw.
[21:26:45] <cradek> but if there's an other side, the tap doesn't break!
[21:26:58] <andypugh> I made the other side..
[21:27:41] <syyl_> for uncreative individuals, theres always edm ;)
[21:27:43] <skunkworks> *knock on wood* I have not broke a tap in the K&T yet...
[21:27:49] <andypugh> I think this is the point to re-start the negative feed over-ride for EDM in EMC2 discussion?
[21:28:03] <syyl_> ;)
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[21:33:18] <PCW> What about the cubic TP discussion? (with P/V/T/A/J handed to the hardware)
[21:33:51] <cradek> also, I want to use usb for some reason
[21:34:06] <cradek> on os-x
[21:34:48] <andypugh> cradek: Well, it's been done. (Not the OSX part, but then why not an OSX port of EMC2?)
[21:35:08] <PCW> we have some customer using EMC with USB (in addition to ARAIS)
[21:37:46] <PCW> USB is very convenient (when it works)
[21:38:27] <andypugh> They have offloaded all the realtime to custom firmware on a 7i43 (As I understand it).
[21:38:48] <PCW> ARAIS, yes newguy, no
[21:39:19] <PCW> newguy is using hostmot2
[21:39:41] <andypugh> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BraEMAu5UkY is 7i43 and USB with EMC2, and there is no arguing that it works.
[21:41:44] <PCW> I think the most painful part of trying to make USB vaguely real time part is that the host interface is shared
[21:42:29] <andypugh> He did say on the list that he has 20mS latency in the USB link.
[21:43:21] <PCW> I think 1-2 ms is possible
[21:44:12] <PCW> (as long as you dont use the same USB interface for anything else)
[21:44:30] <andypugh> There is a USB library for an old version of RTAI. I never managed to figure out what it was for, or meant to do. And it doesn't even compile with newer kernels.
[21:47:41] <andypugh> Following a link trail, this is good work http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kEed8DVO21I&feature=related
[21:53:44] <PCW> Thats neat. Reminds me a little of control system demos that move a wrecking ball with a crane with no overshoot (convolve inc?)
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[21:59:14] <PCW> http://www.convolve.com/player.php?id=Introduction+to+Input+Shaping
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[22:06:51] <rob_h> where can i find the latest firmwares for a 5i23 with a 7i44 & 7i48
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[22:18:57] <PCW> its probably a SVSS6_8 I'm sitting in from of the Wurlitzer let me cook one up...
[22:19:55] <andypugh> I now have the oddest mental image of PCW as the Phantom of the Opera coming up on a hydraulic lift.
[22:20:35] <PCW> I hear the music...
[22:21:15] <Jymmm> andypugh: Gawd, that's so stupid.... You know it be a pneumatic lift ;)
[22:21:44] <andypugh> Nah, pneumatics are dangerous, and EMC2 needs PCW.
[22:22:06] <Jymmm> and leaky hydralic fluid isn't?
[22:22:17] <Jymmm> in a dark theater stage
[22:22:18] <andypugh> It's a lot slower.
[22:23:37] <PCW> freeby.mesanet.com/SVSS6_8.ZIP
[22:31:05] <andypugh> And, youtube being what it is, aren't organs amazing machines? In this you can see how the manuals can be linked, and that that there is a foot keyboard too; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Klh9GiWMc9U
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[22:34:00] <andypugh> It's a matrix, every key/pedal can send air to any pipe of its frequency, and the big round stops set which of the dozens of full sets of pipes are active at any one time. (so, any one key can operate a dozen on more pipes)
[22:35:14] <PCW> Pretty amazing technology for ~1740
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[22:36:35] <andypugh> The Romans started it.
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[22:38:00] <PCW> They say Bach played on that one
[22:38:10] <andypugh> Ah, OK. :-)
[22:38:18] <andypugh> He was OK, I guess.
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[22:42:52] <A2Sheds> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B87qo6BicHw wow the chamber music vid makes this seem crude
[22:44:15] <andypugh> Crying out for CNC :-) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wanamaker_Organ
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[22:45:48] <A2Sheds> the Wanamaker Organ has 28,543 pipes in 462 ranks
[22:46:48] <andypugh> And the state of this one is tragic: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boardwalk_Hall_Auditorium_Organ
[22:47:15] <andypugh> (33,000 pipes, almost none of which work)
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[22:55:25] <rob_h> thanks PCW
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[22:56:05] <rob_h> link does not work here.. not found error
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[22:59:32] <PCW> try again?
[22:59:44] <Jymmm> it works now
[23:00:08] <rob_h> yep, thank you
[23:00:14] <Jymmm> PCW: When are you guys gonna get rid of the <FRAMES> ?
[23:00:55] <PCW> when I develop the ambition
[23:01:18] <Jymmm> PCW: Ok. It will increase your traffuc too btw
[23:02:37] <PCW> I might get hit crossing the street
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[23:40:39] <JT-Shop> dang mountain lion came by last night by the creek...
[23:43:54] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: New wall addition to the shop?
[23:46:40] <Jymmm> This kinda sucks.... FreePlay used to have WIND UP radios. You actually wind it up (it had a coiled spring inside), and would power the radio. Now they only have crank radios that you have to crank for n minutes to get enough power for n minutes.
[23:47:43] <Jymmm> I found this http://www.freeplayenergy.com/page-view.php?pagename=FreeCharge-12V But wanted the coiled spring so you can recharge an external device over 4 hours or so, winding up every thirty minutes.
[23:49:27] <Jymmm> I can only imagine cranking this thing with two hands then using your third hand to operate the phone.
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[23:54:38] <JT-Shop> Jymmm: naw just footy prints down by the creek
[23:54:50] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: ah