#emc | Logs for 2012-01-12

[00:00:53] <clytle374> http://www.kelinginc.net/ACServoMotor.html
[00:02:37] <A2Sheds> I checked those out
[00:03:01] <A2Sheds> they look nice, he said he had to shop around to find good ones
[00:03:19] <andypugh> motor+driver saves a lot of headaches
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[00:04:07] <A2Sheds> it's not like Parker Motion servos but they are 1/3 the price
[00:04:25] <A2Sheds> well 1/2
[00:04:33] <andypugh> Parker onse do at least look expensive.
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[00:05:06] <A2Sheds> I got lucky and found a used one to replace the one that was dropped for $200
[00:05:21] <andypugh> I accidentally bought some Parker steppers on eBay. (They were advertised as integrated servos, but the seller had misidentified them)
[00:05:40] <andypugh> But I was tempted to take them anyway they were so pretty.
[00:05:45] <clytle374> Wonder how much 1kw Yaskawa setup costs these days
[00:06:01] <A2Sheds> $1200 new + $1200 for the new servo drive, I only paid $200
[00:06:51] <A2Sheds> I have to replace the integrated encoder/hall to have a good one again
[00:07:40] <clytle374> For my mini mill and lathe I got 4 50W and 4 100W servos and amps for $350 new
[00:07:47] <jdhNC> I have hundreds of parker steppers at work. Huge and not rated very high
[00:08:35] <clytle374> Lucky day on ebay
[00:08:42] <jdhNC> there are a couple of smallish parker servos on ebay now (cut cables)
[00:10:09] <clytle374> gotta go eat
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[00:17:15] <A2Sheds> was my lucky day today, $40 DLP 1280 x 1024 native and it works great
[00:19:08] <A2Sheds> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Parker-Custom-Servo-Motor-Assy-CM231BL-Ball-Screw-Cbls-/160704031241?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item256ab4ea09 worth it
[00:19:38] <A2Sheds> light duty, probably 60 oz in
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[00:21:11] <andypugh> I see $50 in connectors there, $50 in cable...
[00:23:41] <jdhNC> that would to the Y on my X2
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[01:32:22] <clytle374> Is there a git fix whatever_I_did command?
[01:35:00] <clytle374> git reset --hard ?
[01:35:52] <clytle374> nope
[01:36:33] <Jymmm> Howdy
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[01:38:14] <clytle374> hello
[01:40:07] <jdhNC> any servo people around? Does the power supply need to match the listed servo motor rating?
[01:40:51] <clytle374> What kind of servo?
[01:41:29] <jdhNC> good question.
[01:41:52] <clytle374> generally yes
[01:42:03] <jdhNC> I'm waiting to collect parts as they show up
[01:42:16] <jdhNC> but, my lack of knowledge makes taht difficult
[01:42:39] <jdhNC> http://www.ebay.com/itm/220927673521
[01:42:51] <jdhNC> that motor says 340volts. Seems really high
[01:45:57] <clytle374> You know anything about the amp that goes with it?
[01:46:14] <clytle374> it's an ac servo, right?
[01:46:24] <jdhNC> I know nothing about it
[01:46:29] <jdhNC> other than it is cheap
[01:46:57] <jdhNC> if it came with an amp, I would know more.
[01:49:46] <clytle374> google doesn't want to help much either
[01:50:28] <jdhNC> they look like compumotor BE series
[01:51:21] <clytle374> I'd like to catch the guy running around cutting the wires off everything
[01:51:35] <jdhNC> no kidding
[01:56:30] <clytle374> too bad the guy just talking about parker servos left, they probably knwo
[02:00:07] <GoSebGo> Clytle374: what do you want git to fix for you?
[02:00:16] <jdhNC> it looks like a BE232DJ with hard wired cabling instead of AMP
[02:01:25] <morfic> jdhNC: parker does list it as Custom BE232, but that's where my google "skills" ended
[02:02:47] <jdhNC> so, they say 340v. So you need an amp that can handle 340V and a dangerous power supply?
[02:02:59] <jdhNC> are they useful at 60v?
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[02:10:27] <clytle374> GoSebGo, I somehow copied a bad file back into the git tree, I think I got it fixed
[02:11:17] <clytle374> Now I've clicked on use large fonts in Axis and that broke it. Where is it hiding that configuration? I can't find it to stop it
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[02:13:21] <clytle374> I'm using run in place, and have deleted the whole build directory
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[02:36:07] <clytle374> So I deleted the /home/emc directory. and still it's trying to load the large fonts/
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[02:59:25] <A2Sheds> clytle374: 340V is correct for the parker servos
[02:59:57] <clytle374> jdhNC,
[03:00:09] <jdhNC> so, do you need only a parker drive?
[03:00:10] <clytle374> For the drives? Or to the motors?
[03:01:17] <A2Sheds> i have to check the numbers, for the type of encoder/resolver
[03:01:39] <jdhNC> that motor has a 2000count encoder
[03:02:04] <jdhNC> would it work with a generic 60v brushless amp?
[03:02:37] <A2Sheds> the D is for 500ppr encoder
[03:03:07] <clytle374> 340V, rectified 220V?
[03:03:21] <A2Sheds> oh wait that is for the SM motors
[03:03:32] <jdhNC> the J is 2000ppr
[03:04:14] <A2Sheds> it will probably go for >$100
[03:05:29] <A2Sheds> jdhNC: with the 6 position Hall sensor as well?
[03:05:40] <jdhNC> ?
[03:06:37] <jdhNC> it has the encoder and hall sensors
[03:07:13] <jdhNC> any idea what parker drives they are used with?
[03:08:02] <A2Sheds> if it is then you'll have encoder A-+ , B-+, index -+ and also Hall A B C
[03:08:18] <jdhNC> yeah, that's what the wiring diagram has
[03:08:29] <A2Sheds> either gemini or the newer series
[03:10:12] <jdhNC> heh... I had a gemini at work that acted weird, maintenance hooked up 3 different PC's, fried the serial ports in all of them.
[03:10:50] <A2Sheds> oh great
[03:12:29] <Valen> awesome
[03:12:49] <Valen> time to go
[03:14:37] <A2Sheds> http://imagebin.org/193159
[03:15:59] <jdhNC> they cost too much though
[03:16:46] <A2Sheds> $100 on ebay
[03:17:04] <clytle374> Found out today why the 2 phase converts>3ph motor>3ph generator is acting weird.
[03:17:26] <clytle374> The VFD on the lathe has line regenerative braking
[03:17:51] <jdhNC> heh, feeds back in to the other motor?
[03:18:32] <clytle374> into the generator
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[03:21:25] <A2Sheds> I have yet to try an AC servo with the Mesa driver
[03:22:08] <jdhNC> http://www.ebay.com/itm/320826233670
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[03:22:43] <jdhNC> we have a bunch of those (different name though) driving 50:1 gear boxes, they are pretty snappy even at 50:1
[03:24:03] <A2Sheds> skateboard bearings were the perfect fit for my leadscrews today 8mm ID !
[03:24:31] <clytle374> anyone know where Axis stores it's config. I can not find the file that is storing "use large fonts"
[03:24:31] <A2Sheds> BOM for the printer is almost complete
[03:24:43] <jdhNC> .axisrc?
[03:25:55] <clytle374> where? I can't find it
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[03:27:54] <jdhNC> that was jsut off teh top of my head, I can't get to my emc box from here
[03:28:01] <clytle374> It must be storing the variable somewhere
[03:28:40] <jdhNC> find -type f |xargs grep -i font :)
[03:29:49] <clytle374> yeah, that should be long
[03:31:08] <jdhNC> axis.ini
[03:31:12] <clytle374> I'm running in place, so I deleted the directory, and /root/emc2 and /root/..emcinit or whatever it was
[03:31:13] <jdhNC> in your machine dir
[03:33:28] <clytle374> .axis_preferences
[03:34:08] <jdhNC> I don't think I've ever seen that one.
[03:34:49] <clytle374> You click use large fonts without them being installed, you be looking for it ;)
[03:37:14] <jdhNC> I don't recall ever seeing that either.
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[03:38:17] <clytle374> I think that was in 2.5
[03:38:35] <clytle374> Now back to the original problem
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[03:43:20] <A2Sheds> http://imagebin.org/193157 kind of pointless at that altitude
[03:45:44] <clytle374> Maybe he's hunting birds?
[03:49:31] <clytle374> ever forget to ssh and start looking at your local machine.... Freaking out about what could'a caused this?
[03:52:01] <clytle374> I was afraid of that.
[03:52:04] <clytle374> It's just me
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[03:59:31] <A2Sheds> Siemens PLM NX is so nice, Heeks is nice to but in a different way and if you're not trying to get a lot done
[04:04:02] <clytle374> doc error. /usr/src/test-1/src/emc/nml_int/emcglb.h
[04:04:22] <clytle374> refered to in 5i20.ini is now at
[04:04:40] <clytle374> /usr/src/test-1/src/emc/nml_intf/emcglb.h
[04:05:18] <clytle374> src/emc/nml_int/emcglb.h and src/emc/nml_intf/emcglb.h actually
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[05:19:58] <clytle374> In hm2-servo.hal where is the servo thread time initialized? I see the variable set in 5i20.ini
[05:21:57] <clytle374> duh
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[05:56:08] <clytle374> Okay, so I can get it to run after resetting the watchdog. The thing is that when I look at the servo thread it's time is less than the watchdog timeout.
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[06:17:16] <clytle374> the 5i20 watchdog is physically on the 5i20 card, right?
[06:17:57] <clytle374> really like to know if anyone has used a newer kernel with hm2
[06:24:45] <KimK> clytle374: Yes, the (or at least "a") 5i20 watchdog should be on the ("a") 5i20 card. (You could conceivably have more than one 5i20 (or any master) card.) Don't know about the newer kernels, though.
[06:25:50] <clytle374> It's looking awful suspicious that something is wrong there. I know my hardware is good from the 10.04 emc disk
[06:26:48] <KimK> Thanks for working on this, it will become increasingly important with 12.04 looming.
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[06:28:09] <clytle374> I kinda enjoy it. But its rapidly going over my head. memlock's suggestions did not help. And moving to seems to have broken 2.4 also
[06:28:24] <clytle374> 1/5 emc starts work
[06:28:35] <clytle374> a few watchdog rests work
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[06:30:13] <KimK> Have you discussed any of this with Seb (the principal hostmot2 maintainer)? Or with Andy (who also has been doing a lot of hostmot2 work lately)?
[06:30:57] <clytle374> I think they think I have a config problem
[06:31:09] <clytle374> my servo thread is 1000000
[06:31:55] <clytle374> watchdog timer is 10000000
[06:32:30] <KimK> So 1 ms servo, 10 ms WD?
[06:32:56] <clytle374> yep, and max latency according to hal is under 2000000 and that seems to be right at start up
[06:33:34] <KimK> So you can't figure out why the watchdog is biting? Me either.
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[06:35:13] <KimK> Is there a way (temporarily, just as a test) to configure the watchdog so that it *cannot* bite? (I'm not sure this would really provide any *new* information, but it's something, at least.)
[06:35:39] <clytle374> If someone want to look at it I can rebuild everything with debug code. Not sure how to with rtai
[06:36:20] <clytle374> Like I said I can reset the has-bit to 0 and sooner or later it runs
[06:36:36] <KimK> What about the built-in debug message setting, have you tried turning it all the way up, and did it reveal anything?
[06:36:58] <clytle374> sometimes once, sometimes a bunch of times. But it's never bit after that.
[06:37:10] <clytle374> I tried to some degree and it doesn't seem to matter
[06:37:17] <clytle374> turning it up that is
[06:37:40] <KimK> So it only (ever) bites the first time out of the gate?
[06:38:08] <clytle374> yes, it is not a working machine, so no real function test.
[06:39:47] <clytle374> on 2.6.35 24 worked and 2.5 didn't. I was running git bisect and then tried memlock's suggestions and ruined that
[06:43:33] <clytle374> sorry, I missed one. I haven't seen anything in debug that seem to help.
[06:44:03] <KimK> I don't normally keep a 5i20 installed, but I do have access to two of them that are not in use right now. Is there anything that would be helpful in that direction? These were ordered and received during the summer. I'd have to look to get lot numbers, serial numbers, on-board boot rom(?) revisions, etc. Are your firmware files good? I could do an md5 or sha1 with (against?) you?
[06:44:59] <KimK> Oh, what are your daughter cards?
[06:45:28] <clytle374> I got the firmware from mesanet, then pulled them from the emc 10.04 disk where they do work
[06:46:46] <clytle374> One other odd thing is that when I get it running and I then set the wacthdog back to the has-bit is true state. The dang thing is hard to reset again.
[06:47:19] <clytle374> in my understanding the servo thread is still running the whole time
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[06:48:40] <clytle374> I don't have any daughter cards connected.
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[06:49:10] <KimK> Maybe you need at least one daughter card? (I'm not sure).
[06:50:14] <clytle374> pc w confirmed it was not needed. it did fail with the cards before (space added so his screen doesn't start blinking)
[06:50:16] <Ekkeri> clytle374, what daughters do you have?
[06:50:47] <clytle374> 7I37 7I48
[06:50:58] <Ekkeri> pcw has a magic bot here that alerts him? :)
[06:51:47] <clytle374> if someone types my name the icon in the panel starts flashing
[06:52:08] <Ekkeri> yeah, if you are in the channel?
[06:52:21] <clytle374> only if
[06:52:34] <Ekkeri> I can't see pcw here
[06:53:07] <clytle374> never mind then
[06:53:14] <Ekkeri> :)
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[06:58:01] <Ekkeri> Thu 12.01.12 08:28:09 < clytle374> I kinda enjoy it. But its rapidly going over my head. memlock's suggestions did not help. And moving to seems to have broken 2.4 also
[06:58:06] <Ekkeri>
[06:58:49] <Ekkeri> oh,
[06:58:52] <Ekkeri> right?
[07:02:19] <clytle374>
[07:02:40] <Ekkeri> what ubuntu do you have?
[07:02:47] <clytle374> gentoo
[07:02:54] <Ekkeri> ok...
[07:03:07] <clytle374> Youbloatedtoo
[07:03:16] <clytle374> sorry
[07:06:11] <Ekkeri> is that rtai?
[07:06:43] <clytle374> well, it's after 2am. Gotta get to sleep, so I can dream about watchdog attacking ;)
[07:07:25] <KimK> Sorry, I didn't help you much.
[07:08:19] <clytle374> that's alright, it happens.
[07:08:23] <KimK> But if you ever begin to suspect your 5i20, maybe I can help a little more?
[07:09:10] <clytle374> I feel bad for moz mck. he's gotta build that ubuntu kernel. It took my machine 4 hours to build that config
[07:09:55] <clytle374> I downloaded the emc disk last time I was in town just to test the 5i20.
[07:10:37] <Ekkeri> I should start to solder my servo wires, not very excited about that :/
[07:10:56] <KimK> Yes, I seem to recall that moz got a faster machine for that purpose.
[07:11:34] <clytle374> Yeah, I did some of that on my mini mill project. The mycenter is getting boughten wire.
[07:11:38] <Ekkeri> I think I'm fully prepared now, only some heat shrink is missing.. but not mentally :)
[07:12:18] <Ekkeri> there were so crappy molex connectors in servo wires that I had to cut them
[07:12:29] <Ekkeri> and they were huuuge
[07:13:22] <Ekkeri> but there are 4+12 wires per servo.. :/
[07:13:36] <clytle374> ever wonder way cars are going to canbus? stuff turns ugly real quick
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[07:14:17] <Ekkeri> I think it's diagnostic
[07:14:48] <Ekkeri> and less wiring :)
[07:14:59] <clytle374> yep
[07:15:02] <Ekkeri> I have canbus in my car, it's -04 and have been working quite ok
[07:15:03] <clytle374> good night, before I take one last try and it's 3:00am
[07:15:12] <Ekkeri> ok, night :)
[07:15:16] <Ekkeri> it's 9am here :P
[07:15:26] <clytle374> don't loose a ground ;)
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[09:24:21] <Ekkeri> damn.. I must really hate myself since I choose PUR[C-cables :)
[09:25:53] <Ekkeri> and I don't have tools for 0.25mm˛ cable end terminals.. sucks
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[17:20:28] <Loetmichel_> re @ home
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[18:11:14] <IchGucksLive> hi all
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[18:12:56] <A2Sheds> lets form the EMC team http://www.qualcommtricorderxprize.org/competition-details/overview
[18:17:17] <syyl_> hmm
[18:17:29] <syyl_> bridgeport owners here?
[18:17:46] <A2Sheds> a few
[18:18:05] <syyl_> whats the maximal weight that can be put on the table of a bridgeport series 1?
[18:18:14] <syyl_> about 250kg?
[18:18:40] <A2Sheds> sounds about right, there's a written spec online
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[18:19:41] <syyl_> ah, found the spec sheets
[18:19:44] <syyl_> Weight of Workpiece (max.) 750lb (340kg)
[18:20:21] <A2Sheds> make sure it's bolted to the floor well
[18:20:37] <syyl_> prone for tipping over?
[18:20:37] <IchGucksLive> A2Sheds: did you recive the ballscrew
[18:20:38] <syyl_> :o
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[18:21:34] <A2Sheds> IchGucksLive: I'm using $15 ACME leadscrews for now since speed is 0.01mm per second :)
[18:22:47] <JT-Work> I've been using an acme screw on my plasma Z for 3 years
[18:23:09] <JT-Work> logger[psha]_: log
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[18:24:42] <skunkworks_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejnnP9rZkDo
[18:24:52] <JT-Work> syyl_: yea
[18:25:14] <syyl_> ok, noted
[18:25:18] <syyl_> thanks for that hint
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[18:26:47] <JT-Work> syyl_: working on something big?
[18:26:55] <syyl_> not me
[18:27:18] <syyl_> a friend asked for the maximal weight, as he wants to machine a weldet column on a bridgeport
[18:27:43] <syyl_> about 100...150kg
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[18:30:38] <JT-Work> I've supported some oversize (hang way over the end of the table) with the ball type of conveyor rolls before
[18:38:21] <A2Sheds> skunkworks: is that your repstrap?
[18:38:34] <skunkworks_> no... I just like searching youtube for new videos...
[18:39:40] <A2Sheds> Kanal von BiFi5590 http://www.youtube.com/user/BiFi5590
[18:41:55] <A2Sheds> skateboard bearings 8mm ID, 22mm OD, 7mm wide and only $1ea, i knew they would come in handy some day
[18:45:28] <A2Sheds> Loetmichel_, any idea of the wavelength and power output from LED laser engines these days?
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[18:54:17] * JT-Work goes back to work now
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[21:08:56] <Ekkeri> is it possible to have 0-32kHz 50% PWM output with Mesa 5i20?
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[21:17:20] <skunkworks_> I think you could do that out of a stepgen...
[21:17:56] <skunkworks_> hmmm - the 50% might be a problem as I don't know if you can adjust the step lentgh on the fly - maybe...
[21:20:35] <Ekkeri> hmm, what's that PDM?
[21:21:23] <skunkworks_> pulse density modulation I think
[21:21:41] <Ekkeri> maybe that is what I need..
[21:22:21] <skunkworks_> I don't think so... Atleast how I undestand it. It is like pwm but without the fixed frequency.. iirc
[21:24:23] <skunkworks_> if you don't need the 50% you can easly do it with a stepgen in velocity mode
[21:25:08] <skunkworks_> if you need 50% you might have to do some research on how you would set the stepwidth based on the frequency.. (if I am thinking right)
[21:25:17] <Ekkeri> I'm not sure what kind of output I need, it's says in the manual "pulse train" :)
[21:25:46] <Ekkeri> "frequency is detected by input capture"
[21:25:59] <skunkworks_> I would try the stepgen in velocity mode...
[21:31:04] <cradek> for a closed system with poor documentation you might just have to experiment to see how it works
[21:31:45] <cradek> it might measure time between rising edges, or pulse high time, or something else
[21:32:00] <Ekkeri> skunkworks_, thanks, I found similar info
[21:32:14] <Ekkeri> "You can get a variable frequency pulse train out of a hostmot2 stepgen by "
[21:32:15] <Ekkeri> switching it to velocity mode.
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[21:35:23] <Ekkeri> "Freqgen has been deprecated and replaced by stepgen, which now has an additional command line argument 'ctrl_mode', which can be used to specify position mode (the default) or velocity mode. Position mode is the default, and works the same as before. Velocity mode accepts a velocity command, and works like freqgen. "
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[22:54:22] * JT-Shop can't wait for the BP to be fully converted to EMC2
[22:54:30] * JT-Shop hugs EMC2
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[23:10:50] <andypugh> Steady on now old chap!
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[23:13:38] <skunkworks_> boy - I really like asus + amd. I am goofing around with a M5a78l-mlx plus and a amd athlon II x2 250 proccessor
[23:13:56] <skunkworks_> 6229 servo and 5377 base
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[23:14:13] <skunkworks_> Similar luck with a M4N68t-m V2
[23:14:48] <JT-Shop> I haven't ran the Anilam control on the BP in almost a year and forgot how challenging it is compared to EMC2
[23:14:59] <toastydeath> ?
[23:15:07] <skunkworks_> and the older and M2n68-AM plus
[23:15:31] <skunkworks_> (that is what is in the k&t
[23:15:33] <skunkworks_> )
[23:17:15] <skunkworks_> http://imagebin.org/index.php?mode=image&id=193303
[23:17:34] <skunkworks_> running about 20 minutes or so
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[23:19:32] <skunkworks_> seems to run opengl decent - some weird white lines at the top of the glxgears window but axis seems to run great
[23:20:40] <skunkworks_> isolcups=1 doesn't really seem to improve anything.
[23:22:28] <skunkworks_> full screen (1280X1024) 481 frames in 5.0 seconds
[23:23:42] <skunkworks_> (dual core)
[23:27:49] <andypugh> I just bid on a 2560x1440 display, and i blame you.
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[23:29:40] <andypugh> PCW: How soon can you design and make a 50V 5A sserial bdc driver? I only want one, mind.
[23:29:55] <andypugh> :-)
[23:29:56] <JT-Shop> LOL
[23:30:13] <PCW> Ekkeri: you can get 50% (square wave) out of the HostMot2 stepgen by setting it into quadrature mode
[23:30:46] <skunkworks_> PCW: awesome! (didn't think of that)
[23:31:01] <PCW> Ive got a tiny one partially designed (uses TI DRV8432)
[23:31:04] <skunkworks_> heh - looks like I can run a base period of 15000
[23:31:31] <skunkworks_> brb
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[23:32:29] <andypugh> Actually, PCW, that sounds ideal :-)
[23:32:55] <andypugh> And I suspect you will have it finished before I really need it.
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[23:33:36] <PCW> DRV8432 is neat as it supports up to 500 KHz PWM
[23:34:17] <andypugh> Which would suit my silly low inductance motor. Though I expect to be rewinding that a few times.
[23:35:14] <andypugh> The motor is nearly finished now, just waiting for low-head allen screws (I ran out of space) and the hall sensor PCB (I messed up the design)
[23:36:31] <andypugh> The problem with the PCB was that I created a schematic symbol with individual 0V lines for the led and sensor, when in actuality they are commoned. And that meant that the current-limit resistor was bypassed...
[23:42:32] <skunkworks_> ok 18us base seems consistant..
[23:42:41] <skunkworks_> oh well - enough playing.. bbl
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[23:52:46] <Ekkeri> PCW, ok, thanks
[23:54:36] <PCW> oops I guess those infrared LEDS dont even make a nice flash before they die
[23:56:12] <Valen> PCW: they can
[23:56:15] <Valen> with enough voltage
[23:58:39] <andypugh> The ones in question actually make a fair bit of visible light.
[23:58:54] <andypugh> Which is handy for telling that they are working.
[23:59:08] <andypugh> It save messing about with a digital camera.
[23:59:27] <andypugh> (though why infra-red LEDs look blue to a digital camera I have no idea)
[23:59:40] <Valen> guess the blue sensor is the one that responds
[23:59:47] <Valen> probably some kind of harmonic thing
[23:59:54] <Valen> on my phone it comes up purple