#emc | Logs for 2012-01-03

[00:00:04] <mastor> my machine is better looking
[00:00:13] <mastor> :-)
[00:00:30] <JT-Shop> yea, so does robh :)
[00:00:44] <JT-Shop> that kind of machine the imaginary Y+ is on top
[00:00:54] <mastor> the is no Y+ on lathes
[00:01:03] <mastor> XZ are the axis
[00:01:10] <JT-Shop> the imaginary Y+
[00:01:23] <andypugh> JT-Shop: It's probably easier just to mentally swap G2 and G3
[00:01:39] <pcw_home> Pin 4 looks like like it tripped on a banana peel
[00:01:42] <JT-Shop> I have to lay on the floor to program mine
[00:01:43] <andypugh> I always get them wrong anyway.
[00:02:34] <andypugh> Right, first workday of the new year tomorrow. It would be nice to turn up on time.
[00:02:51] <JT-Shop> very late for you
[00:02:59] <andypugh> Just past midnight.
[00:03:09] <JT-Shop> if lathe:
[00:03:11] <JT-Shop> 3138 commands.set_view_y()
[00:03:12] <mastor> Where also. Are you on uk?
[00:03:23] <andypugh> Aye
[00:03:40] <mastor> I am a little below (Portugal)
[00:03:57] <andypugh> Yes, I just worked that out from your hostname :-)
[00:05:38] <JT-Shop> someone that knew a bit of python I bet could add back tools to the lathe view
[00:06:07] <mastor> not me I am afraid
[00:06:21] <andypugh> As I say, I have a strong feeling that it has been done. But where?
[00:07:14] <JT-Shop> I know robh has mentioned it several times, but don't recall any solution to it
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[00:07:46] <JT-Shop> it is a rotated Y view that much is for sure
[00:10:41] <rob_h> there is a command to put in axis script to swop it over
[00:10:54] <andypugh> Aha, .axisrc?
[00:10:58] <JT-Shop> hi Rob
[00:10:59] <rob_h> ye
[00:11:01] <rob_h> i find 1 sec
[00:11:27] <JT-Shop> mastor: there you go Rob to the rescue
[00:11:37] <mastor> it seam so
[00:11:41] <mastor> seams
[00:11:47] <rob_h> http://pastebin.com/0jT3QCRp
[00:12:02] <rob_h> it has some key binds too so discard them... as i have two turrets
[00:12:06] <andypugh> mastor: You need to create (or edit) the file called .axisrc in your home directory, and add that.
[00:12:21] <rob_h> its 90% work, u dont get tool previews, as axis does not draw them in swopped plain
[00:12:35] <JT-Shop> so the glRotatef does the magic?
[00:12:38] <rob_h> from if lathe onwards should ork
[00:12:40] <rob_h> work
[00:12:41] <andypugh> (as the file name begins with a "." it is invisible unless you choose "show hidden files"
[00:13:07] <rob_h> yea it rotates it 180 in effect.. from stock lathe view.. but like i said tools show very funny or not at all
[00:13:13] <rob_h> cone shows ok
[00:13:50] <andypugh> Hmm, so a partial success then?
[00:14:00] <rob_h> a true axis preview for this type lathe would be awsome so see tools etc
[00:14:13] <mastor> I do not have .axisrc only .axis_preferences
[00:14:25] <JT-Shop> you just create it
[00:14:28] <mastor> should I create one or ..
[00:14:30] <JT-Shop> it is a text file
[00:14:30] <mastor> ok
[00:14:39] <rob_h> i hacked axis abit to show backplot screen properly but i could not get tools to show when u flip Z i thinkthey dont get drawn right
[00:15:27] <andypugh> Sounds like someone needs to hack axis a lot. I can imagine it working via a lathe=2 option..
[00:15:37] <JT-Shop> yea
[00:16:01] <rob_h> yea what i did.. but i did not understand the tool drawing bit.. so kinda stuffed me, apart from that i had a lathe=2 working ish
[00:17:05] <andypugh> If I had a lathe like that and/or had half a clue about Python I might be persuaded, but at the moment, I have other things to do.
[00:17:18] <rob_h> lol dont we all
[00:17:32] <rob_h> but the axis script works ish and gets thing going
[00:17:54] <rob_h> guess my chnc will be nice to work and see tool shapes :)
[00:18:04] <andypugh> OK, now it really is time to log. Happy New Year chaps (and chapesses)
[00:18:20] <rob_h> other thing thats funny is if u have a W axis.. 2nd Z that realy screws back plot drawing up..
[00:18:28] <rob_h> bye
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[00:18:43] <rob_h> hows going john
[00:19:46] <JT-Shop> going good, got the GS2 talkin to EMC and controlling the spindle on the BP knee mill
[00:20:05] <rob_h> converting it already then
[00:20:26] <mastor> Thank you rob, andy and jt shop.
[00:20:33] <mastor> It worked
[00:20:33] <JT-Shop> well, back to the plasma to get the donor 5i20 from there for the BP
[00:20:39] <rob_h> lucky i read the chat before going to bed
[00:20:39] <JT-Shop> nice!
[00:20:50] <rob_h> im sure jt would of asked me later
[00:20:51] <mastor> also in uk rob?
[00:20:54] <rob_h> yes
[00:20:55] <JT-Shop> you kept seeing me call you didn't you
[00:21:04] <rob_h> in the east
[00:21:38] <rob_h> lol it never faslhed at me.. dont know y
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[00:22:13] <mastor> going to bed also. Good to know there are several experts from uk. It is good to know that the time table is coincident with mine afterhours.
[00:22:21] <mastor> God to know
[00:22:26] <rob_h> haha
[00:22:27] <JT-Shop> you might not have been on line
[00:22:35] <rob_h> making chips is the best bit
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[00:22:47] <JT-Shop> how is the CHNC coming along?
[00:23:25] <rob_h> mastor, my vidoes http://www.youtube.com/user/roberth270/videos
[00:24:30] <JT-Shop> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?BackToolLathe
[00:25:11] <rob_h> jt take out the bin bit
[00:25:17] <rob_h> if lathe: is all u need
[00:25:19] <rob_h> onwards
[00:25:30] <JT-Shop> ok
[00:25:33] <rob_h> the toor_window.bind binds keys to axis etc
[00:25:44] <rob_h> nice to have on wiki some where too i see it asked alot
[00:25:58] <rob_h> maybe in the manual ;) if is a .axisrc bit
[00:26:02] <JT-Shop> ok referesh view
[00:26:12] <rob_h> nice
[00:26:33] <JT-Shop> http://linuxcnc.org/docview/2.5/html/gui/axis.html#_axisrc
[00:26:34] <rob_h> it is on mailing list but its a long way back in years
[00:26:46] <JT-Shop> not much in the manual about .axisrc
[00:27:00] <rob_h> maybe add a key for binding an axis jog
[00:27:20] <rob_h> like me if have lathe with more than 2 axis u dont get akey for any more than xz
[00:27:45] <JT-Shop> need more buttons :)
[00:27:59] <rob_h> ye
[00:28:19] <rob_h> i had order more bits and bobs today as my box of junk is getting low after all these refits
[00:28:54] <mastor> another start question. There is a option to reload automatically the gcode after I edit it? Or you need to press always reload?
[00:28:59] <JT-Shop> lol, mine is full
[00:29:08] <JT-Shop> reload
[00:29:11] <rob_h> always pre reload for a refresh
[00:29:35] <rob_h> but if u edit a program, dont refresh it, it will run the edited version altho not show it.. i noticed this other day.. bug or not i dont know
[00:29:55] <rob_h> need a new machine ;)
[00:30:15] <JT-Shop> it must load the file to the interpreter when you press run
[00:30:22] <rob_h> ye
[00:30:29] <JT-Shop> but the backplot needs a kick start
[00:30:40] <rob_h> like us all in the mornings
[00:30:50] <JT-Shop> lol
[00:31:04] <JT-Shop> yea, a few cups of joe to get the heart going
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[00:31:49] <mastor> Good night to all
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[00:31:58] <JT-Shop> good night
[00:32:30] <rob_h> sleepy time here too i think
[00:32:34] <rob_h> later
[00:32:48] <JT-Shop> ok, good night Rob
[00:32:55] <JT-Shop> chow time here
[00:34:45] <clytle374> nothing like 22F and high winds to test out the heating system
[00:35:58] <clytle374> fortunately, it's working better than the rtai
[00:42:15] * JT-Shop pops the hood on the plasma and starts the swap out from 5i20 to 5i25 :)
[00:42:58] <JT-Shop> quite mild here with 35F and winds gusting to 26mph
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[00:50:57] <clytle374> now 18F gusting to 35mph, running 120F water though the floor
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[01:02:06] <clytle374> RTAPI and HAL_LIB aren't showing up in my dmesg.. anyone have a hint for me?
[01:03:51] <JT-Shop> gotta run but do you have more than one kernel and your not loading the real time one...
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[01:04:43] <clytle374> I'm loading the right one, just ran latency-test. thanks tho
[01:05:22] <clytle374> hal_lib comes from emc, hmm
[01:06:24] <clytle374> I'm pretty sure it's a path issue
[01:06:56] <clytle374> I'll try run in place again.. That;s the last time it works i think.
[01:07:14] <clytle374> If I didn't just break the rtai kernel
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[01:16:05] <jthornton_> logger[psha]_: log
[01:17:29] <jthornton_> clytle374: got it going?
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[01:19:21] <whistlingtony> hi all
[01:19:54] <clytle374> nope, I guess this route isn't going to work.
[01:19:59] <whistlingtony> I have a problem, so... here I am. I'm trying to start up emc2, and.... it hangs. each time. swapped motherboards. still did it. added RAM. still doing it....
[01:20:33] <whistlingtony> It gets the splash screen, everying looks ok and.... nuthin. I can bring it up on my little Atom netbook, but.... yeah.
[01:21:32] <whistlingtony> ah... whole lot of logins, not a lot of people?
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[01:23:46] <jthornton_> dang he waited 3 whole minutes
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[01:24:34] <clytle374> haha
[01:25:03] <jthornton_> clytle374: did you check dmesg?
[01:25:32] <clytle374> yeah it is here http://pastebin.com/WcKRjqwF
[01:25:59] <clytle374> I don't get RTAPI and HAL_LIB and the watchdog bites
[01:26:25] <clytle374> Just when I thought I was all cool and did it the hard way
[01:27:32] <jthornton_> hm2/hm2_5i20.0: Watchdog has bit! (set the .has-bit pin to False to resume)
[01:27:49] <jthornton_> is the card seated well
[01:28:32] <clytle374> yeah
[01:28:53] <clytle374> not sure where to go with this.
[01:29:20] <clytle374> don't really expect anyone to worry about it since I'm not on the supported path
[01:29:47] <SWPadnos> have you tried setting the hm2_5i21.0.has-bit (or however it's spelled) pin false after starting up?
[01:30:07] <SWPadnos> maybe hm2_5i20.0.watchdog.has-bit
[01:30:41] <clytle374> trying to disable the watchdog right now. But isn't no RTAPI and Hal_lib the root of the problem?
[01:31:09] <SWPadnos> I don't know, but if hal_lib weren't loaded, then hm2 also wouldn't load, I bet
[01:31:35] <jthornton_> but you can run the latency test ok right?
[01:31:37] <SWPadnos> since it needs hal_lib to create pins
[01:32:13] <clytle374> latency-test is great jitter under 5000
[01:33:10] <jthornton_> can you run a non-5i20 config?
[01:33:11] <clytle374> I disabled the watchdog and dmesg still ends right at the same place
[01:33:32] <clytle374> any config?
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[01:33:51] <jthornton_> yea
[01:34:43] <clytle374> sherline 3 axis?
[01:35:07] <jthornton_> sure
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[01:35:42] <clytle374> parport is broken due to the pci_config issue. I don't think it's related. maybe
[01:37:26] <clytle374> let me post ./configure
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[01:41:35] <clytle374-emc> this look broken?
[01:41:37] <clytle374-emc> http://pastebin.com/NMH4mW0h
[01:42:17] <jthornton_> checking for rtai... not found
[01:42:41] <jthornton_> how did you install?
[01:43:32] <clytle374> gentoo fdisk /dev/sda ....
[01:44:27] <jthornton_> so this is not on Ubuntu?
[01:44:43] <clytle374> no, I said it wasn't supported
[01:45:29] <jthornton_> ok, that is at least two levels above my pay grade :)
[01:46:23] <clytle374> that makes you more than qualified
[01:46:40] <clytle374> I wonder why it finds rtai this and that but not rtai
[01:46:56] <clytle374> I really wish it was better documented
[01:47:19] <Ekkeri> yeah, ubuntu back in running, changed pc case :)
[01:47:47] <Ekkeri> taskbar just is a bit funny
[01:47:54] <Ekkeri> doesn't show clock etc.
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[01:49:01] <clytle374> I've never had a broken case before
[01:49:35] <Ekkeri> I meant that everything is still working :P
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[01:50:30] <Ekkeri> little bigger case now so I could fit those daughters: http://ekke.kapsi.fi/temp/.mesapino3.jpg
[01:50:42] <cpresser> clytle374: how did you install rtai? perhaps its prefix is /usr/local, so configure cant find it
[01:52:25] <clytle374> /usr/realtime
[01:53:59] <cpresser> i only remember having some troubles with the paths when i installed emc2 to debian; in the end I used ubuntu^^
[01:54:18] <cpresser> but obviously you should add an option to configure, so it finds the rtai stuff
[01:54:55] <clytle374> makes sense.
[01:55:06] <cpresser> nah, take that back.. i didnt read the whole configure output
[01:55:18] <cpresser> it automatically finds /usr/realtime
[01:55:34] <clytle374> then why the rtai not found?
[01:56:00] <cpresser> perhaps thats only the name of a kernel-module...
[01:56:26] <cpresser> the messages right bevore and after are for kernel-modules
[01:57:27] <Ekkeri> fuck
[01:57:43] <clytle374> I'll second that
[01:57:43] <cpresser> i cant tell if those modules are required or if they are present on my machine (its off and 10miles away)
[01:57:58] <Ekkeri> max jitter was >1000000ns and now it freezed :)
[01:59:47] <Ekkeri> damn, last time I checked, it seemed to be ok
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[02:05:40] <cpresser> clytle374: i got a idea about not finding those modules: some of them are build outside the kernel-tree when compiling rtai; other are compiled within the kernel (make modules). perhaps those from inside the kernel-tree are not found
[02:06:45] <clytle374> Let me make modules and see what ones are made
[02:08:13] <Ekkeri> hmmp.. jitter is now ~1590000ns
[02:08:26] <Ekkeri> maybe I still need to change "some" hardware :/
[02:10:14] <jthornton_> Ekkeri: you have isolated cpu, turned off hyperthreading etc.?
[02:10:42] <Ekkeri> wuhaa, 180000ns
[02:11:26] <clytle374> cpresser, the only ones I'm seeing there are the paraport modules.... all broken.. I didn't think it matters since I'm not using them
[02:12:21] <Ekkeri> jthornton_, it's single core amd xp 2800+
[02:12:49] <cpresser> clytle374: sorry, cant cross-check that since i dont have a cnc-machine online
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[02:22:20] <Ekkeri> luckily I have a second mobo and cpu, maybe I will try those tomorrow
[02:22:26] <clytle374> starting to think I better try and go to town and download the ubuntu-emc friday
[02:22:37] <clytle374> I hate to surrender
[02:22:58] <Ekkeri> I tried to use usb-live-cd :)
[02:23:04] <Ekkeri> easy as hell
[02:24:42] <Ekkeri> that latency is below 20000ns with glxgears running IF I don't do anything stupid
[02:24:42] <clytle374> seems like it should be made to work. rtai seems like the ugly-ist thing I've seen before.
[02:25:09] <Ekkeri> like try to resize windows superfast
[02:26:48] <Ekkeri> but it's useless if it has that kind of latency "sometimes"?
[02:29:06] <Ekkeri> can't get it over 20k without glxgears thou
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[02:31:02] <jthornton_> opengl problem maybe
[02:31:24] <clytle374> shared memory
[02:31:26] <clytle374> ?
[02:32:26] <Ekkeri> clytle374, I don't think so
[02:35:13] <Ekkeri> it has Matrox G400-series AGP video card
[02:36:05] <Ekkeri> "As said earlier, G400 suffered at launch from driver problems. While its Direct3D performance was admirable, its OpenGL installable client driver (ICD) component was very poor."
[02:36:08] <Ekkeri> hmmph..
[02:40:10] <Ekkeri> "The G400 is a very bad card for OpenGL,"
[02:40:11] <Ekkeri> it crashes, it burns...
[02:40:25] <Ekkeri> So.. I need older Matrox or what?
[02:40:47] <jthornton_> 525
[02:41:18] <Ekkeri> 525?
[02:41:28] <Valen> Ekkeri: we have some occasional issues with openGL
[02:41:41] <Valen> well opening a new openGL window causes a 30K spike
[02:41:48] <Valen> but then its always done that
[02:41:51] <jthornton_> atom mb
[02:42:02] <Valen> thats what I use now
[02:42:05] <Valen> works well
[02:42:06] <Ekkeri> :/
[02:42:19] <Valen> ~$100 or cheaper though
[02:42:32] <Valen> so probably on par with a video card ;->
[02:42:39] <Valen> and ~4000 latency
[02:43:46] <Valen> (though still the spike when starting an opengl window)
[02:44:57] <Ekkeri> those mobos have atom on board?
[02:46:00] <Valen> yup
[02:46:03] <Ekkeri> how about others than 525?
[02:46:11] <Valen> mbo + ram + hdd is all thats needed
[02:47:50] <Valen> most dual core atoms should be ok
[02:48:05] <Valen> but if you step off the path results are undefined ;->
[02:52:14] <clytle374> I think I feel off the side of the mountain
[02:52:15] <Ekkeri> seems to be ~200$ here
[02:52:46] <Ekkeri> well.. with Nvidia ION, so no good?
[02:54:41] <Ekkeri> http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/motherboards/desktop-motherboards/desktop-board-d525mw.html how about this one?
[02:55:17] <Tom_itx> i've got one of those
[02:56:10] <Tom_itx> seem to be ok
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[02:57:58] <jthornton_> that's the on I use
[02:58:27] <jthornton_> one
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[02:59:40] <Danimal_garage> i have that one too
[02:59:51] <Danimal_garage> i have that and a d510mo
[02:59:56] <Ekkeri> so it should be a safe bet
[03:01:59] <Tom_itx> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813121442
[03:02:38] <jthornton_> this is the exact one I use http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813121442
[03:02:51] <Tom_itx> :)
[03:02:55] <jthornton_> which seems to be the same on Tom uses
[03:03:05] <Ekkeri> just wrong continent :)
[03:03:29] <Tom_itx> it was $75 when i got mine
[03:04:22] <Ekkeri> so it's just boxed or bulk, not sure about that MWV
[03:07:42] <Ekkeri> 90usd here, so that's not that bad
[03:08:28] <jthornton_> just curious where is here?
[03:08:36] <Ekkeri> Finland
[03:10:03] <jthornton_> dang your up late :)
[03:10:09] <Ekkeri> :P
[03:10:47] <Ekkeri> how much memory do I need?
[03:11:32] <jthornton_> iirc 1gig is plenty
[03:11:56] <Tom_itx> i loaded mine up but i
[03:12:01] <Tom_itx> ,m sure i didn't need to
[03:12:14] <jthornton_> I did too with two 2 gig sticks
[03:12:34] <jthornton_> it does use 204 pin memory sticks
[03:12:51] <Tom_itx> at the time, it was cheaper than the other
[03:15:35] <clytle374> left it sit here for a while and it gave and error message
[03:15:50] <Ekkeri> can I use one 4GB?
[03:16:14] <clytle374> uh-oh, encoder vel is broken when slow
[03:16:54] <Tom_itx> it says 4G max so i'm not sure
[03:16:57] <Tom_itx> probably not
[03:19:22] <Tom_itx> i put 2 2G sticks in mine
[03:20:18] <Ekkeri> 800MHz?
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[03:22:17] <jthornton_> yea, the memory is specific to the BOXD525MW
[03:22:39] <Ekkeri> hmm... "Single channel DDR3 with two slots for 1066/800 MHz memory support"
[03:23:07] <Ekkeri> DDR3 800 MHz, DDR3 1066 MHz, and DDR3 1333 MHz SO-DIMMs (DDR3 1066 MHz and DDR3 1333 MHz memory runs at 800 MHz)
[03:23:10] <Ekkeri> :)
[03:23:34] <jthornton_> Remy Martin says time for me to go to sleep
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[03:32:51] <Ekkeri> hmmp.. that MWV is for LVDS
[03:34:30] <clytle374> now my old monitor I pulled out of the barn has a HV snap every once in a while.
[03:35:48] <zephyr> too much moisture + contamination?
[03:37:22] <zephyr> I was just testing my touch probe that I just finished making
[03:37:59] <Ekkeri> nice
[03:38:00] <zephyr> I turns out that it failed to open on contact after a while
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[03:38:19] <Ekkeri> I have only a 3d analog probe
[03:38:54] <zephyr> Unknown to me the "spider" was made out of magnetized 1/8 rods
[03:39:27] <zephyr> eventually some tiny metal shavings got on these and kept the circuit closed
[03:40:46] <zephyr> After de - magnetizing and cleaning it up it works pretty good now.
[03:41:09] <zephyr> repeatable to less than .001"
[03:41:28] <zephyr> but - the tip is not concentric with the spindle
[03:41:40] <zephyr> it is about .007" out
[03:41:52] <clytle374> common problem
[03:42:24] <zephyr> I guess I can just measure the runout and compensate for the offset
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[04:00:14] <Ekkeri> hmm..
[04:00:26] <Ekkeri> that LVDS-version is actually cheaper here
[04:00:35] <Ekkeri> any reason NOT to buy it?
[04:04:10] <Tom_itx> can't say for sure
[04:04:22] <Tom_itx> does it require LVDS monitor?
[04:04:38] <Ekkeri> nope, but it has a option to connect one
[04:06:50] <Tom_itx> most of the guys were using the 510 until they became unavailable so i'm not sure how many of these are out there right now
[04:08:09] <Ekkeri> http://linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/component/kunena/?func=view&catid=18&id=15495 he has MWV.. seems to be quite ok for Mesa
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[04:09:30] <Tom_itx> if you turn off hyperthreading etc i think it gets better
[04:25:53] <Ekkeri> well, ordered MW
[04:30:58] <Valen> hyperthreading kills latency
[04:31:16] <Valen> dual core processor with one devoted to realtime is where its at
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[04:45:31] <Valen> hmm I'm gonna need more vlans ;->
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[04:52:47] <clytle374> Valen, can you get a smp kernel now?
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[04:52:58] <Valen> tis default
[04:53:27] <clytle374> really, cause my homemade one isn't working
[04:53:44] <Valen> 10.04 install i believe does everything ok by default
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[06:40:28] <automata> pcw_home?
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[11:31:13] <automata> hi pcw_home!
[11:37:40] <jthornton> it's like 3:30am in California now, I doubt pcw is up yet
[11:38:49] <Mjolinor> we wouldn't have these problems if we had a flat earth and hte sun went round it like it shoudl do
[11:39:45] <jthornton> lol
[11:40:19] <archivist> http://theflatearthsociety.org/cms/ still going strong
[11:41:49] <Mjolinor> one has to question some people sanity really
[11:42:06] <archivist> it the truth !
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[12:20:43] <automata> Hi, can anyone point me to an example of a mesa anything IO FPGA card (7i43 5i20 etc) using the stepgen in velocity mode?
[12:21:03] <automata> I mean a hal file example....
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[12:55:12] <Valen> I personally think we should all be in the same time zone
[12:55:19] <Valen> and have 26 hour days
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[12:57:02] <anonimasu> I think the manufacturer of my lathe has parameters for the fanuc control since 1985 stored..
[12:58:24] <anonimasu> ^_^
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[13:01:10] <hauptstrasse> I am setting up a HP-UX Metrocluster with EMC SRDF, and somehow syminq works on one node, but on the other it just hangs forever. What are the possible reasons?
[13:01:26] <hauptstrasse> Oh..
[13:01:28] <hauptstrasse> Sorry :-)
[13:01:48] <hauptstrasse> Wrong channel. Bye
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[13:03:40] <archivist> :)
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[13:05:10] <anonimasu> I have a hard time beleiving that they can find them, but they said "yes we can help with that" when I called them
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[13:11:24] <archivist> some places have archives!
[13:12:08] <archivist> Southbend lathe company can still supply info for my 1940's lathe
[13:17:38] <anonimasu> im hoping so much for it so i dont have to mess with decoding the parameter tape i have
[13:20:50] <anonimasu> I just want to make parts as quick as I can for now :)
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[13:32:36] <anonimasu> yeah but how likely is it that they have a parameter backup for a cnc machine :)
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[18:03:13] <IchGucksLive> Hi all Windy in Geramy today
[18:05:48] <Loetmichel> re @ home
[18:30:22] <cpresser> its raining into my shop :/
[18:31:12] <cpresser> the wind presses the water beween the gaps of the roof.. now there are a lot of wet spots on the ceiling
[18:33:12] <clytle374> That does happen
[18:47:02] <clytle374> emc no worky on 64-bit. ?
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[18:50:34] <pcw_home> I think sim only
[18:51:26] <clytle374> been so long since I've had a 64bit problem I never even thought about it
[18:55:42] <pcw_home> Looks (from buildbot.linuxcnc.org) that theres a Ubunto 8.04 64 bit realtime version but not 10.04
[18:57:19] <clytle374> so it can run in 64 bit
[18:57:59] <clytle374> I built a new kernel and rtai and have the exact same issue as yesterday
[19:01:43] <pcw_home> well at one time it could. dont know why they gave up on 64 bit with Lucid
[19:02:05] <pcw_home> maybe thats what you are finding out...
[19:02:29] <cradek> it works as far as we know, if you build kernel+rtai+emc that way
[19:03:06] <cradek> (we don't do that because there's no payoff whatsoever for doing more than twice the work)
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[19:06:05] <clytle374> well, no I'm not hopeful that 32bit will fix it wither
[19:07:05] <pcw_home> clytle374 how about downloading teh live CD, update to 2.5 via source or buildbot image and verify that eveythin does work with your hardware
[19:07:48] <clytle374> I will when I go to town friday... bandwidth limit here
[19:08:31] <pcw_home> I think you are testing too many christmas bulbs in series
[19:08:54] <cradek> heh
[19:09:15] <archivist> helps if the bulbs fail short circuit
[19:10:43] <Mjolinor> which they should do
[19:10:51] <clytle374> yeah, if only I could cut the wire
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[19:12:28] <Mjolinor> there is a method, you take all the bulbs out, test them individually, throw the duff ones, put the good one back in, replace the duff ones wiht new ones then put them all in the bin and buy new
[19:13:16] <clytle374> I just replaced 2 of 3.... I thinl
[19:14:03] <Mjolinor> the whole task is more satisfying if it is generously interspersed with F** SH** and other expletives
[19:15:02] <clytle374> my voice recognition is broke
[19:15:51] <Mjolinor> and you do know that even if oyu are successful they will not work next year when you take tehm out the box
[19:16:30] <pcw_home> I do know 64 bit llinux has some nasty 64 bit PCI bugs
[19:18:25] <clytle374> non of the parport_* warnings should be effecting this, right?
[19:18:38] <pcw_home> that will cause trouble with PCI cards on some motherboards
[19:19:05] <clytle374> I thought parport was printer port
[19:20:11] <pcw_home> Yes, ist the printer port. You might check what they are about though
[19:21:52] <clytle374> lots of stuff about specific hardware, like 7i43
[19:22:12] <clytle374> make clean now, and watch build for something/anything
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[19:32:14] <clytle374-mycent> what do you think, is this the problem?
[19:32:16] <clytle374-mycent> http://pastebin.com/61U6eKSC
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[20:00:01] <pcw_home> I kind of doubt it
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[20:14:12] <mobile> does this show up?
[20:15:33] <A2Sheds> http://spectrum.ieee.org/biomedical/bionics/goodbye-wheelchair-hello-exoskeleton
[20:16:10] <mobile> JT here trying to get eye phone working
[20:16:11] <A2Sheds> slashdot has a story on the exoskeletons again
[20:16:44] -!- PCW [PCW!~chatzilla@] has joined #emc
[20:17:10] <A2Sheds> besides a patent mindfield, I'm not sure what's holding up development
[20:17:25] <A2Sheds> minefield even
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[20:18:55] <A2Sheds> wasn't somebody here working with the EMC kinematics to build a walker?
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[20:27:59] <PCW> clytle374: Just did fresh pull of 2.5-branch, compiled and everything that I can see in HostMot2 works fine
[20:28:12] <andypugh> I am experimenting with making encoders. I have found a single-chip quadrature detector for reflective targets.
[20:28:52] <andypugh> It needs a very reflective target (laser print on paper is no good) but I think I have found a way, by polishing then etching aluminium.
[20:28:53] <andypugh> https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/hE30TUMCIPwgEL1qGQgyJ9MTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
[20:29:32] <andypugh> Not a great photo, but is the result of polishing, then drawing lines in OHP pen, then etching in ferric chloride. Seems to work great as a target
[20:32:15] <PCW> is this one of those array detectors? (Avago)
[20:33:46] <PCW> The array detectors are less sensitive to defects in individual stripes
[20:33:48] <cradek> what's the scale here?
[20:33:49] <clytle374> PCW, Thanks, I'm going to try 32-bit for now. Hope to report back in a couple days ;)
[20:34:31] <andypugh> PCW: Yes, it is this (it's not big) http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/rotary-encoders/7160604/
[20:34:45] <Loetmichel> hmm... andypugh: have you tried Alucorex?
[20:35:38] <andypugh> cradek: that's 20 lines per inch, done by hand. Next step is photo-resist and proper artwork.
[20:35:39] <Loetmichel> black anodized aluminium with a photo-paint on top?
[20:36:35] <Loetmichel> so you can make a positive with the laswer, then liht it withh uv, then put it in NaOh until the anodized is gone
[20:36:39] <Loetmichel> anodizing
[20:36:53] <andypugh> Loetmichel: I have looked at similar stuff, but I am not sure that you get sufficient difference in specular reflectance. It's more about finish than colour. (I think it is intended for window-bar type targets)
[20:36:59] <Loetmichel> and then polish the whole plate
[20:39:10] <PCW> There are some very high res cheap encoders using the analog version of the Avago module and a little DSP chip
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[20:51:19] <A2Sheds> andypugh: whats the diff in the reflection the sensor needs? light vs dark?
[20:52:09] <PCW> andypugh: didn't you just acquire a high res laser printer?
[20:52:11] <PCW> print a encoder wheel on transparency material and expose spray-on photoresist
[20:52:12] <PCW> on the wheel through this transparency
[20:53:25] <Loetmichel> PCW: not necessary. Alucorex is readily photoresist coated colered anodized aluminium sheet
[20:53:34] <Loetmichel> exactly for such pourposes
[20:53:47] <Loetmichel> ans as fine in resolution as PCBs
[20:54:03] <Loetmichel> 'cause the photoresist and workflow are the same
[20:54:06] <A2Sheds> I just inkjet into unsealed anodize myself
[20:54:50] <Loetmichel> the point is: the developer (NaOh) dissolves the photoresist AND the anodizing
[20:55:37] <Loetmichel> so if you are polishing such a surface, the bare aluminium gets polished and tha much harder AlOx stays "coarse"
[20:56:12] <A2Sheds> in the anodize world it called bright dip, we polish anodize to <micron as well
[20:56:33] <A2Sheds> most of this stuff is kept secret by the anodize shops
[20:57:20] <Loetmichel> http://bungard.de/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=26&Itemid=77&lang=english
[20:58:15] <PCW> I'm not sure thats whats wanted (I think andy wanted specular vs diffused)
[20:59:08] <Loetmichel> ist aviable in black matt
[20:59:15] <Loetmichel> its
[20:59:44] <PCW> but only black vs diffused (etched)
[21:00:14] <Loetmichel> so when you "etch" it and then polish the bare aluminium with a fine soft polisch, you get mirror aluminium and black coarse patterns
[21:00:23] <Loetmichel> polish
[21:00:37] <andypugh> Sorry guys, I was eating :-)
[21:00:51] <A2Sheds> I'm not sure why he wants to do that based on the detector
[21:00:59] <Loetmichel> i have made barcodes from this stuff on flight cases
[21:01:11] <Loetmichel> after a while it gets scratched BADLY
[21:01:24] <Loetmichel> ... but only the aluminium parts
[21:01:27] <andypugh> A2Sheds: The detector needs >60 v <10 specular relectivity. This seems to be totally unrelated to colour.
[21:01:34] <Loetmichel> tha black code lines have no dent
[21:02:19] <A2Sheds> http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/rotary-encoders/7160604/ this one??
[21:02:41] <andypugh> White paper doesn't effect the detector at all, even my stainless tweezers are not shiny enough.
[21:03:28] <andypugh> A2Sheds: Yes, that's the one
[21:04:05] <A2Sheds> back in a bit
[21:04:29] <andypugh> PCW: Yes, transparency and photo-resist is the current plan.
[21:05:08] <andypugh> Though I might try resist pen and plotter first
[21:06:12] <PCW> If you didn't care about your laser printer much you might be able to feed thin ALU through it (like a scrap offset plate) :-)
[21:06:49] <Loetmichel> PCW: wil not work
[21:07:13] <andypugh> The printer, for all it's hugeness, doesn't really have quite enough resolution.
[21:07:21] <Loetmichel> laser printer need to have an insulating printing material for the electrostatic toner transfer to work
[21:07:39] <andypugh> And I think Loetmichel is right, Aluminium will mess up the electrostatics I suspect
[21:07:47] <Loetmichel> it will
[21:07:53] <Loetmichel> i checked with copper foil ;-)
[21:08:08] <Loetmichel> nice arcs though ;-)
[21:08:37] <andypugh> Thanks for saving me the experiment :-)
[21:09:06] <PCW> Ive seem machine that do this but maybe they have a additional toner transfer step
[21:09:38] <PCW> platemakers
[21:11:34] <andypugh> Loetmichel: Is this the stuff you first suggested? http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/labels-kits/0553150/
[21:12:14] <Loetmichel> andypugh: i work in a company that takes COTS printers and scanners and computers and converts them to Sdip27-levelA approved stuff ;-)
[21:12:44] <Loetmichel> we have MUCH copper/luminium foil and even more old prototypes to experiment with ;-)
[21:13:24] <Loetmichel> andypugh: no, this:
[21:13:33] <Loetmichel> [21:57:32] <Loetmichel> http://bungard.de/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=26&Itemid=77&lang=english
[21:14:51] <Loetmichel> its from a german company that is widely known for its high quality PCB material
[21:15:09] <Loetmichel> and the alucores is basically the same coating
[21:15:36] <Loetmichel> i've used 15 year old bungard PCB plates
[21:15:45] <Loetmichel> ... worked like new ones
[21:16:11] <Loetmichel> no other light timing, no longer developing, like new ;-)
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[21:16:57] <Loetmichel> i never used the alucorex in "coarse/matt"
[21:17:13] <andypugh> OK, that is a little different, as the others I have seen use the photoresist to keep a dye if your choice out of the anodising.
[21:17:14] <Loetmichel> just the bright/shiny stuff
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[21:17:36] <Loetmichel> andypugh: it works the other way round
[21:17:47] <Loetmichel> the plate is completly andodized
[21:18:06] <andypugh> It is also too thick...
[21:18:15] <Loetmichel> and tha developer is NaOh, whcih also eats away the Anodized aluminium
[21:18:41] <Loetmichel> its aviable from 0,5mm thick up
[21:18:49] <andypugh> Yes, I need 0.3mm
[21:19:13] <PCW> Is the black dye IR absorbing? maybe they can send a sample
[21:19:37] <Loetmichel> hmm, just clear the back side and leave it some time in the NaOh
[21:19:47] <Loetmichel> ... then you get your 0,3mm ;-)
[21:20:09] * Loetmichel has forgotten the stuff in the developer once.
[21:20:12] <andypugh> I already have a disc (took me ages, faced down to 0.3mm) so I think I will experiment with that first.
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[21:20:29] <Loetmichel> got more or less a "grid" in black instad of a solid sheet ;-)
[21:21:06] <andypugh> That sounds like a way to make transmission encoder discs
[21:21:07] <Loetmichel> in silver with a black grid on it ;-)
[21:21:20] <Loetmichel> yes, it is also possible
[21:21:53] <Loetmichel> but for that i would recommend the brass with photoresist from the same company
[21:21:55] <PCW> I think normally those are imaged on both sides
[21:22:13] <PCW> (the ss slotted disks)
[21:22:13] <Loetmichel> http://bungard.de/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=27&Itemid=78&lang=english
[21:22:22] <andypugh> I am doing it again, aren't I? Asking questions here, then rejecting all suggestions?
[21:22:43] <Loetmichel> andypugh: no problem, normal IRC user behaviour ;-)
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[21:23:15] <Mjolinor> http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=7850150939
[21:23:18] <Mjolinor> very cheap :)
[21:23:31] <Loetmichel> at the moment i am in about 12 irc channels
[21:23:54] <Loetmichel> an in 90% of them i am the "channel Grandpa"
[21:24:31] <andypugh> An SMD template would make an ideal encoder.
[21:24:50] <Loetmichel> ... so i know enough *login* ask to ask... 5 sec no answer... *logout*
[21:25:40] <Loetmichel> andypugh: the smd template sheets are great
[21:25:49] <andypugh> How much?
[21:26:04] <Loetmichel> and the resolution is more or less only defined by your film
[21:26:07] <andypugh> I have a quote for £200 to make me 25 actual encoders
[21:26:30] <Loetmichel> ouch
[21:26:40] <andypugh> Well, part cost is reasonable.
[21:27:48] <andypugh> I do wonder if my CNC could laser-expose photoresist though.
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[21:28:10] <PCW> Blue laser
[21:29:07] <andypugh> Actually, straight laser engraving would probably work a treat.
[21:29:16] <Loetmichel> andypugh: http://www.conrad.de/ce/de/product/529060/
[21:29:27] <Loetmichel> not really expensive the stuff ;-)
[21:29:27] <PCW> (and a long time running in the dark)
[21:30:35] <Loetmichel> PCW: i've seen a nice writing on the wall in a laser lab : "protect Your OHER eye!"
[21:30:36] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[21:31:40] <PCW> yes I've seen "do not look at laser with remaining good eye"
[21:33:35] <Loetmichel> hmmm
[21:34:00] <PCW> There must be places that will laserplot on film still around (either PCB --> Gerber or publishing --> PostScript)
[21:34:13] <Loetmichel> about 2m behind me is a 20 watts co2 laser tube stuffed away... maybe i should build a PSU for it an go checking engraving ;-)
[21:35:06] <Loetmichel> PCW: over here, 3 buildings down across the street is a "druckerei" which makes films from PDF for VERY reasonable cost
[21:35:58] <Loetmichel> (using them laserfilmplotters for their own printing machines )
[21:36:04] <Loetmichel> *google*
[21:36:24] <PCW> Used to only $10 or so but we have not dealt with films for a long time
[21:36:42] <Loetmichel> ah, printing company... i could have guessed that ;-)
[21:37:44] <Loetmichel> PCW: the printshop over here charges about 15 Eur for a A4 sheet with 10'000lpi
[21:39:23] <PCW> Yeah so that the first step get good artwork (didn't mozmck or someone have a PS enocder wheel program?)
[21:40:04] <andypugh> PCW: I found http://www.digi2slide.co.uk/
[21:42:06] <PCW> Thats a little different than process photos (~100% contrast B/W only)
[21:42:21] <andypugh> And the postscript is from fennetic http://fennetic.net/irc/encoder-panelized.ps
[21:44:04] <PCW> I wrote on a long time ago (fixed a encoder disk on a printer) I just used the film (6 mill mylar) directly as the encoder disk
[21:47:00] <andypugh> To an extent the problem is that there are too many ways to do this.
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[21:48:28] <PCW> Well heres another: http://www.sparkslaser.co.uk/Sparks_Laser_Services.html does SS stencils
[21:48:30] <PCW> these may or may not be cheaper than photochemically etched
[21:48:31] <PCW> (but we pay about $150 for 18x20)
[21:49:10] <PCW> (I mean the same thing locally of course)
[21:51:05] <A2Sheds> Specular Reflectance min 60 for reflective area and 10 max for non reflective, and no ability to adjust the analog sections, sensitivity or threshold
[21:51:44] <A2Sheds> not a real spec, I'd call their FAE and ask
[21:51:51] <andypugh> PCW: that link was to a company 400 yards from my house!
[21:52:04] <PCW> not so much needed because its a differential sensor
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[21:53:06] <A2Sheds> is cha and chb analog out not after a comparator?
[21:53:36] <PCW> comparator VS 0V
[21:53:38] <A2Sheds> if so there you go
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[21:54:20] <andypugh> I am rather committed to that sensor now, I don't know of anything else small enough
[21:54:40] <PCW> good encoders do this as well (differential sensors)
[21:55:07] <A2Sheds> output is after a comparator :(
[21:55:36] <PCW> theres an analog version
[21:56:03] <andypugh> A2Sheds: Suits me, I had to cut out one of the 0603 resistors to make things fit.
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[21:57:28] <PCW> the point about the comparator is its not a comparator against a preset threshold but rather against 0V
[21:58:44] <PCW> so as long as you have enough signal to overcome the offsets and noise you're good
[21:58:59] <A2Sheds> why an aluminum encoder wheel?
[22:00:03] <A2Sheds> you'll figure it out
[22:01:20] <andypugh> A2Sheds: I am happy to use stainless, but it is a very peculiar shape...
[22:02:28] <andypugh> http://imagebin.org/191618
[22:02:34] <andypugh> (And I have already made it)
[22:02:55] <A2Sheds> http://www.ebay.com/itm/110801607522?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649 any low cost sources for Acme lead screws? 100's pcs
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[22:04:47] <A2Sheds> did the photoplotter output provide enough contrast?
[22:05:42] <andypugh> A2Sheds: I mean I have already made the shape, it has no lines on it yet.
[22:06:23] <andypugh> But I have demonstrated that etched v polished aluminium has a good contrast ratio
[22:08:58] <A2Sheds> I'd inkjet nano-carbon black into unsealed anodize. For matt vs polished alu. I'd inkjet a resist onto the polished area of the alu, then etch or use a laser
[22:09:22] <A2Sheds> use what you have available
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[22:10:06] <andypugh> It's non-trivial to inkjet onto a 3D shape :-)
[22:10:37] <A2Sheds> is the surface with the encoder below those tabs?
[22:10:54] <andypugh> I am dithering about buying some spray photoresist to experiment with
[22:11:05] <andypugh> A2Sheds: It can be on either side
[22:11:27] <A2Sheds> whats the thickness of those tabs?
[22:11:30] <andypugh> The tabs are the mounting, they wedge between the magnets
[22:12:01] <A2Sheds> the photoresist might have enough contrast for you
[22:12:27] <andypugh> tabs are 2.8x3mm
[22:12:49] <A2Sheds> inkjet at that res would need <1mm nozzle to target
[22:12:52] <andypugh> But it isn't about contrast, it is about gloss.
[22:13:26] <A2Sheds> reflectance 50 - 10
[22:13:55] <andypugh> Specular reflectance.
[22:14:11] <andypugh> It turns out that 60 = very shiny
[22:14:21] <A2Sheds> absorbed or scattered light vs reflected
[22:16:02] <andypugh> I think I need to talk to the photographer at work and see what he has by way of enlargers etc.
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[23:34:05] <JT-Shop> anyone use their eye phone to get on the #emc channel of the irc? what app do you use?
[23:34:29] <mhaberler> jt-shop: colloquy
[23:35:12] <mhaberler> http://colloquy.info/
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[23:40:48] <JT-Shop> mhaberler: thanks
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[23:41:35] <Tom_itx> somebody was griping about the connection the other day though
[23:41:39] <Tom_itx> on an iphone
[23:42:04] <JT-Shop> I managed to get on for a few seconds today but it kept kicking me off
[23:42:14] <Tom_itx> that's the problem i think
[23:42:23] <Tom_itx> ssh into your server
[23:42:25] <Tom_itx> and use it
[23:42:37] <Tom_itx> that's what a friend of mine does all the time
[23:42:41] <JT-Shop> ssh?
[23:42:52] <Tom_itx> i never know where he is for sure
[23:43:06] <Tom_itx> secure socket whatever it's called
[23:43:12] <Tom_itx> i can find out if you want
[23:43:20] <JT-Shop> I can google it
[23:43:29] <Tom_itx> i'm not sure what he uses
[23:44:28] <Tom_itx> you'll have to set the linux box up for it
[23:44:54] <JT-Shop> mhaberler: you have dug into the code quite a bit, have you noticed why G84 is accepted but not implemented?
[23:44:58] <Tom_itx> bak later
[23:45:01] <JT-Shop> ok
[23:45:30] <mhaberler> I saw the 'empty space' ; let me see what it is supposed to do
[23:45:40] <JT-Shop> ok, thanks
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[23:46:08] <mhaberler> right hand tapping`
[23:46:08] <mhaberler> ?
[23:46:40] <Tom_itx> i'll find out what he uses
[23:46:43] <JT-Shop> yes
[23:47:06] <mhaberler> how would that be different from G33.1 with negative X?
[23:47:22] <mhaberler> I mean K
[23:47:50] <JT-Shop> you should be able to do G84... then next line give the XY for the next hole
[23:48:19] <JT-Shop> and keep giving it XY coordinates till you issue G80 to turn it off
[23:50:41] <mhaberler> th g81-83 codes - do they work this way?
[23:50:56] <mhaberler> (i would assume yes)
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[23:52:31] <tom3p> you'll poke your eye out with that thing! http://www.tue.nl/fileadmin/content/pers/2011/10_oktober/eye_surgery_robot_vid_2_instrument_changer.wmvtUE builds tiny eye surgery robot with tool change
[23:52:53] <tom3p> http://www.tue.nl/fileadmin/content/pers/2011/10_oktober/eye_surgery_robot_vid_2_instrument_changer.wmv
[23:53:20] <JT-Shop> mhaberler: yes
[23:53:58] <mhaberler> so that would be basically a spindle-synced right-hand drill?
[23:54:22] <JT-Shop> with a spindle sync reversal
[23:54:29] <mhaberler> right
[23:54:59] <mhaberler> and the g33.1 doesnt take xy continuations I assume, but other than that does the right thing?
[23:55:04] <JT-Shop> same as G33.1 but with the modal function of other canned cycles
[23:55:14] <mhaberler> oh, I see
[23:55:34] <JT-Shop> mhaberler: yes g33.1 does the tapping fine but lacks the modal for following holes
[23:55:45] <mhaberler> I'll have a look
[23:55:59] <JT-Shop> thanks a bunch
[23:56:14] * JT-Shop goes back to gladevcp for the BP
[23:59:09] <mhaberler> cradek had given it a stab some 5 years ago, but commented it out?
[23:59:24] <JT-Shop> I don't know
[23:59:53] <mhaberler> git blame src/emc/rs244ngc/interp_cycles.cc|less