#emc | Logs for 2011-12-26

[00:01:08] <gene76> does any one know what controls (in the ini file) the g0 speed of an angular axis currently specified in units of 1 degree?
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[00:06:34] <A2Sheds> might be DEFAULT_VELOCITY
[00:07:16] <gene76> what time units, I have it quite low now?
[00:09:49] <gene76> but even at 1.00 for default, its trying to do 3000 degrees a minute, about 750 more than it is capable of
[00:11:20] <A2Sheds> I'm still getting used to the ins and outs myself, I've seen some screwy things like this as well
[00:12:05] <A2Sheds> the devs know what it means, it just not translated to noobs yet :)
[00:13:24] <gene76> :) noobs is relative, been using emc since about 2.0. But at 77, the short term memory isn't what it once was :(
[00:15:19] <A2Sheds> i just used pncconf to modify a .ini and set the DEFAULT_ANGULAR_VELOCITY to 90deg./min. and the ini file has it as DEFAULT_ANGULAR_VELOCITY = 1.500000
[00:15:40] <gene76> experimentally, using feed override, it can run at 2400 nicely, add another 200 and it will stall in mid move, and at 3000, joint error in about 19.5 degrees either direction, before the accel is completed, or right at that point.
[00:15:49] <A2Sheds> so I'm not sure how they reference this yet
[00:16:32] <A2Sheds> MAX_ANGULAR_VELOCITY = 6.000000 is in the .ini after setting it to 360 deg/min in pncconf
[00:17:53] <gene76> neither am I, so I guess I reduce MAX_VELOCITY of that axis, currantly about 10.0 till it works
[00:21:52] <pcw_home> internal EMC units are machine unit/sec so 1.5 is right for 90 degrees/min
[00:22:14] <A2Sheds> 60 deg = 1 unit?
[00:22:35] <pcw_home> (1.5 degrees/sec = 90 degrees/min)
[00:22:52] <gene76> got it slowed to 1800/min, no feed override effects it. but the feet are getting cold here in the shop, diabetic etc, so I'm done for tnight, thanks.
[00:26:00] <A2Sheds> pcw_home: linear units are mm or inch, angular is in degrees
[00:26:15] <A2Sheds> where do you configure the machine units?
[00:26:33] <pcw_home> right and rates are /second
[00:27:23] <A2Sheds> ok, so pncconf uses minutes just be different
[00:28:36] <pcw_home> in the .ini file (LINEAR_UNITS=XXXX)
[00:29:59] <pcw_home> well I guess spindle speeds are in RPM as well so you need to convert (if for example you want a velocity mode PID controlling spindle speed)
[00:33:22] <A2Sheds> could be worse, could be furlongs per fortnights
[00:33:56] <A2Sheds> I like how Google added them into conversions
[00:34:31] <Jymmm> Upgrade to P4 3GHz with 2GB ram almost done!
[00:35:21] <pcw_home> P4: when GHz was everything...
[00:35:46] <Jymmm> pcw_home: What is this S A T A thing on the mobo?
[00:35:53] <A2Sheds> they make nice shop heaters as well
[00:36:43] <Jymmm> Can anyone repurpose a P3 w/ 512MB and 6GB hdd ?
[00:37:13] <pcw_home> EMC?
[00:37:37] <Jymmm> Would you want to? IDE Only
[00:38:48] <pcw_home> Well no but we have MBs out the ears from compatibility testing
[00:39:55] <Jymmm> pcw_home: Maybe if I get a care package from SWPadnos in april/may
[00:42:14] <pcw_home> Jymmm decided to get the same flashlight you liked
[00:42:16] <pcw_home> Seemed compact enough to be convenient bedside
[00:42:18] <pcw_home> flashlight when we have to run outside to see what the
[00:42:19] <pcw_home> chicken/sheep commotion is all about
[00:42:53] <Jymmm> pcw_home: did you get the same batteries and charger too?
[00:43:45] <pcw_home> We got a Trustfire charger not sure about the batteries (3600 mAH?)
[00:44:15] <Jymmm> pcw_home: You have to be careful about the batteries, the rated value isn't the true value on most of them.
[00:44:26] <Jymmm> hang on...
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[00:45:02] <Jymmm> pcw_home: These are what I got... http://www.dealextreme.com/p/trustfire-protected-18650-3-7v-true-2400mah-rechargeable-lithium-batteries-2-pack-20392
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[00:45:24] <Jymmm> pcw_home: and I chose a cheap charger... http://www.dealextreme.com/p/dsd-18650-cr123a-charger-black-936
[00:45:56] <Jymmm> pcw_home: those batteries are rated at a TRUE 2400mAh fwiw
[00:46:18] <Jymmm> pcw_home: if you look at the reviews for the other 18650's the results vary.
[00:47:17] <Jymmm> pcw_home: I do like the flashlight thought, only quirk is the memory mode sometimes is one-off, but that coule be the operator too, jury is still out =)
[00:48:28] <pcw_home> DO you have any experience with that type of lithium cell (like self discharge)
[00:49:17] <Jymmm> pcw_home: No, but those are protected cells, they have a lil pcb in them to prevent overcharge/over-discharge
[00:51:01] <Jymmm> pcw_home: as long as it doens't explode, I'm happy =)
[00:58:59] <pcw_home> Looks like I should have ordered the 2400 mA (if they haven't shipped I see if they will swap them)
[00:59:00] <pcw_home> got blinded by the BIG numbers
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[02:01:05] <A2Sheds> 3 finger gripper or airspring/bladder to grip the inside of a plastic cup so a robot arm can rotate it??
[02:04:54] <MattyMatt> is the cup liable to be full of liquid?
[02:05:27] <MattyMatt> even occasionally accidentally that would be messy with the bladder
[02:06:43] <A2Sheds> heh, no empty cups
[02:08:01] <MattyMatt> cup might stick to bladder when you try to drop it
[02:08:20] <A2Sheds> and it has to be lifted by gripping the inside of the plastic cup/mug 50-100mm I.D.
[02:08:47] <MattyMatt> thin wall disposable plastic cup?
[02:09:42] <MattyMatt> the balance will be gripping reliable without cracking it if it is
[02:09:49] <A2Sheds> most likely polypropylene double wall thermos type cup/mug, but it could be PET cups as well
[02:11:03] <pcw_home> vacuum collet?
[02:11:05] <A2Sheds> a small blast of air would unstick any stuck cup
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[02:15:00] <A2Sheds> http://www.intelligentactuator.com/3-finger-electric-gripper/
[02:16:02] <A2Sheds> http://www.techno-omil.com/grippers/3fingerpneumatic.htm
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[02:17:21] <A2Sheds> http://www.techno-sommer.com/PDF/Pg_166.pdf
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[02:20:07] <pcw_home> seems like overkill for a plastic cup
[02:21:31] <A2Sheds> yes, looking for a "light" version, but it also self centers and holds the cup rigid
[02:22:01] <pcw_home> balloon?
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[02:23:07] <A2Sheds> http://www.firestoneip.com/
[02:25:38] <A2Sheds> http://www.firestoneip.com/site-resources/fsip/literature/pdf/PG_broch.pdf
[02:26:00] <A2Sheds> Airgripper
[02:26:41] <A2Sheds> ah Airpicker is for inside gripping
[02:28:12] <pcw_home> yeah a fancy balloon
[02:30:26] <pcw_home> wonder if the make light enough make ones for plastic cups (35 psi would surely bust the cup)
[02:34:16] <A2Sheds> perfect for the PP mugs
[02:35:36] <A2Sheds> PET cups are going to be the same size, so maybe a rigid cone with a vacuum cup on the bottom
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[02:39:52] <A2Sheds> or 3 finger gripper with curved fingers with matching radius to cup ID
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[08:25:24] <jtektool> yo
[08:25:36] <jtektool> success!
[08:26:03] <jtektool> got emc livecd kernel recompilled with comedi support!
[08:26:45] <jtektool> scicoslab reading voltages
[08:27:16] <jtektool> anyone know how to force touchy to load a linux executable simultaneously?
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[08:30:33] <jtektool> anyt programmers online
[08:30:34] <jtektool> ?
[08:31:05] <archivist> bit early for the touchy author
[08:31:12] <jtektool> ok
[08:31:24] <jtektool> this is my time frame im a weirdo
[08:31:54] <jtektool> but hey got a touch screen working and a script to add comedi support to emc
[08:32:11] <jtektool> who is touch author?
[08:32:17] <archivist> cradek,
[08:32:22] <jtektool> ok
[08:32:26] <jtektool> cool
[08:33:08] <archivist> but I think you are asking a python question
[08:33:16] <jtektool> i got emc recompilled and added comedi support it seems when any of the interfaces are loaded the modules are loaded simultaneously
[08:33:26] <jtektool> right?
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[08:33:55] <jtektool> so when i load axis (i assume touchy is the same) it loads the rt modules
[08:34:05] <jtektool> which in need for my project
[08:34:37] <archivist> emc not axis is doing the loading I think
[08:34:48] <jtektool> right again
[08:35:05] <jtektool> thats what i was getting at its universal
[08:35:31] <jtektool> so rt modules load then i want my linux eecutable to load simultaneously
[08:36:07] <jtektool> or just after is fine i have programmed a spectrum analyzer i want loaded with touchy at runtime
[08:36:19] <jtektool> and uses realtime
[08:36:44] <jtektool> kinda like halscope but a spectrum analyzer
[08:37:54] <jtektool> were making circuit board testers and everything is proceeding as expected
[08:39:01] <archivist> does that include gpib devices
[08:41:31] <archivist> Im thinking is it time for me to get my stuff automated http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2002/2002_05_09_Portacabin_Electronics/P1010017.JPG
[08:42:00] <jtektool> oh wow yeah
[08:42:11] <jtektool> thats where im trying to go with it
[08:42:31] <jtektool> we make circuit board testers for ford, gm and others
[08:43:00] <jtektool> hmm let me pull up some pics from sftp
[08:43:44] <jtektool> anyways linux rt is WAY faster than labview
[08:43:57] <jtektool> and can be interfaced with labview
[08:44:08] <archivist> does not surprise me
[08:44:32] <jtektool> so we are tring to make an embedded device using only ATOM processers that can off load some of the realtime
[08:44:52] <jtektool> but i will Open source all of my code
[08:45:04] <archivist> nice
[08:45:39] <archivist> did you see the antenna testing set up using emc
[08:45:51] <jtektool> no that would be a nice addition
[08:46:25] <jtektool> im using fractal based antennas into a spectrum analyer and being able to use one i/o where i was using many before
[08:46:51] <archivist> http://emcar.sourceforge.net/
[08:48:36] <jtektool> oh thats perfect
[08:48:37] <archivist> I assume emc is mainly your board and probe loading in this app
[08:49:10] <jtektool> i bookmarked cuz ive been drinking a little merry xmas lol
[08:49:39] <archivist> Im dry here :(
[08:49:57] <jtektool> http://www.scilab.org/products/other/labview_gateway
[08:50:20] <jtektool> ayways these guys are using labview anyways but it totally loads down the processor
[08:50:49] <jtektool> i can run emc + a spectrum analyzer on a dual core atom
[08:51:04] <jtektool> isnt that like 1/4 the processing power of an i5
[08:51:16] <jtektool> they claim theyre minimum is an i5
[08:51:23] <jtektool> im like whoa WTF
[08:51:47] <archivist> bloated oop software is a curse these days
[08:52:11] <jtektool> http://www.magna.com/
[08:52:26] <jtektool> thats who were making PCB testers
[08:52:51] <jtektool> FOR
[08:53:17] <archivist> must be a flash page as I get a blank middle area while flash has crashed
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[08:53:40] <jtektool> sorry anyways we built them a robot that lines up
[08:53:58] <jtektool> they make the "backup cameras" in all the new cars
[08:54:44] <jtektool> so were racing them to develop code for linux native rt that competes with labview
[08:54:54] <jtektool> and still they can use labview
[08:55:03] <jtektool> that was the major argument
[08:55:17] <jtektool> they "have to" use labview
[08:55:39] <jtektool> so if i build RT devices that they can link to then were in business
[08:55:50] <jtektool> i got a lode of code to write
[08:56:09] <archivist> "have to" just means they dont want to learn something new
[08:56:25] <jtektool> but anyways got a script to load comedi (NI drivers) with emc2
[08:56:45] <jtektool> im working on bash wizardry to add to diff versions of ubuntu
[08:57:08] <jtektool> then i get crazed by the diffs in ubuntu 10.04 11.10 and now 12
[08:57:44] <jtektool> im adding global variables to a script to install comedi support with scicos lab as we speak
[08:58:16] <jtektool> i just wrote A line by line very basic script so far
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[08:58:43] <jtektool> now i have to go back in and rewrite with variables for those 3 versions
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[09:01:57] <archivist> fun
[09:02:16] <archivist> 9 am and time for breakfast I think
[09:02:44] <jtektool> r you in europe then?
[09:02:53] <jtektool> im going in and looking for files
[09:02:55] <archivist> UK
[09:03:06] <jtektool> i find you guys less arogannt
[09:03:12] <jtektool> why is thatr
[09:03:16] <jtektool> that?
[09:03:27] <jtektool> i mean just on irc
[09:03:42] <jtektool> you guys are just so nice over there
[09:03:44] <archivist> dunno, probably taught not to be a smartarse as a kid
[09:03:57] <archivist> whack
[09:04:15] <jtektool> well thanks im digging files to show you
[09:05:01] <archivist> my irc is always on so dont miss much even if I wander away from the computer
[09:05:02] <jtektool> everytime i ask someone in the us its like oh you cant do that or that wont work then a week later i get it to work
[09:05:22] <jtektool> not very helpful
[09:05:55] <archivist> you find that with usb and emc, but reading the spec there is a way :)
[09:06:23] <jtektool> theres always a way thats what i mean
[09:06:41] <jtektool> were supposed to be building the future here
[09:07:10] <archivist> there seems a lot of real inventiveness in the UK
[09:07:58] <jtektool> i feel sad for us over here in the US cuz of that stupid attitude
[09:09:38] <archivist> but the education system is giving degrees to all comers and not just the intelligent over here
[09:09:40] <jtektool> but it doesnt exist in my fathers generation
[09:10:02] <jtektool> hes like *whack like you said
[09:12:30] <archivist> but for an explanation of the overconfidence v humility http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2000/01/18/MN73840.DTL
[09:15:21] <jtektool> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/35965228/2010%2005%2010%2009%20NGC%20COMMS%20TEST%20MODULE%20copy.jpg
[09:16:25] <archivist> looks a lot better than the one I made for testing a clock module :)
[09:17:00] <jtektool> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/35965228/2010%2005%2010%2005%20NGC%20COMMS%20TEST%20MODULE%20copy.jpg
[09:17:27] <jtektool> lol they have to be theyre for major companies my dad is a control freak
[09:19:27] <jtektool> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/35965228/2010%2001%2028%2007%20Generic%20Dual%20Level%20PLC%20Fixture%20copy.jpg
[09:20:54] <jtektool> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/35965228/2008%2002%2011%2006%20Repeater%20902%20copy.jpg
[09:21:35] <jtektool> anyways notice theyre all manual imagine a touchy interface that you could just push a button on and lock it all together\
[09:21:52] <jtektool> with servos
[09:22:00] <archivist> I was lazy and the user had to hold the board down :)
[09:22:36] <jtektool> lol
[09:22:38] <archivist> but we were only making a few k
[09:22:51] <jtektool> these ar like 500k+
[09:22:54] <jtektool> usually
[09:24:04] <jtektool> were the only in the us with a linear gate (meaning no elliptacle circulular motion) straight down onto pins
[09:24:26] <archivist> I also did a soak test jig to catch infant failure including the power wiring
[09:24:49] <jtektool> yeha were on the same page
[09:25:45] <jtektool> thats what were doing over heret hate to be a sales man but if you guys need any help over there on the mechanics of board testing we got it really down
[09:26:02] <jtektool> i just want to change over to automatic instead of manual
[09:26:30] <jtektool> should be real easy we have air actuators and i want to replace with servos
[09:27:22] <archivist> that was at the last company I worked for, currently looking for new sensible work
[09:27:43] <jtektool> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/35965228/2008%2002%2011%2006%20Repeater%20902%20copy.jpg
[09:28:06] <jtektool> easy for me its a family business
[09:28:25] <jtektool> another thing missing from todays american economy
[09:29:06] <jtektool> there is much value in father/son apprenticeships
[09:29:32] <jtektool> america was built on this and now its (OH yeah i can sell you a degree)
[09:30:18] <archivist> now all jobs require a degree! not chance for older people like me
[09:30:56] <jtektool> its retarded both me and my father are droputs but we make all the test designs for ford/gm/hummer
[09:31:30] <jtektool> and this in the last five years while their quality has improved
[09:32:16] <jtektool> <<<sorry prolly sounds arrogant not meant to just meant to prove my point that real world apprenticeship is superior to a bunch of silly school]
[09:32:30] <archivist> I agree
[09:33:07] <jtektool> i just dont get it we get all these dudes with these credentials and we keep smoking them in design....
[09:34:40] <jtektool> luckily i am thakful for my father's connections its looking like my kid is even smarter than me on computers...shes 4
[09:34:43] <jtektool> lol
[09:35:36] <jtektool> whe are going to miss the worlds eirnsteins, goedels, and teslas if we continue on this "degree" pathway
[09:35:53] <jtektool> its just silly
[09:36:16] <jtektool> technology will stagnate if we dont push forward with the self learners
[09:36:55] <jtektool> sorry for the drunken rant LMFAO
[09:38:23] <archivist> when interviewing ask about hobbies, self learners should show up there
[09:40:07] <archivist> do they make things, read non fiction, visit museums(not art!)
[09:42:15] <jtektool> RIGHT
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[09:44:05] <jtektool> anyways your lab is cool look for my posts on the wiki im working on ways to automate all that with scicolab/emc2
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[09:45:26] <jtektool> i still love my tektronics oscilloscpope lol
[09:46:22] <jtektool> do i c a samba book on the shelf?
[09:47:19] <archivist> mebe
[09:47:39] <archivist> books are a bad habit for me
[09:48:00] <jtektool> a good habit...though
[09:48:19] <jtektool> samba is what got me where im at
[09:49:53] <jtektool> time to sleep...()...()...()...cheers!
[09:50:19] <archivist> breakfast is cooking seeya
[09:51:28] <jtektool> ill post results...
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[11:32:23] <Loetmichel> mornin!
[11:38:03] <Loetmichel> *yawn* Today i should clean up my workshop... but first wake up with a coffee... (procrastinate... :-)
[11:43:03] <archivist> past lunchtime for you
[11:43:56] <Loetmichel> archivist: a bit
[11:43:58] <Loetmichel> ;-)
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[11:48:13] <Cylly> My mill looks like this since christmas eve. (hat to make some wood blocks for a gift for my nephew/niece) -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12599
[11:48:17] <Cylly> ... and the rest of the workshop isnt better...
[11:48:22] <Cylly> ups...
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[11:48:56] Cylly is now known as Loetmichel
[11:49:12] <Loetmichel> better
[11:51:01] <Loetmichel> wood dust and machine grase/oil is a VERY bad compond... will need lots of solvent there ;-)
[11:51:06] <Loetmichel> grease
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[12:56:46] <Mjolinor> can someone give me some ball park figures for spindle speed and number of different speeds on what is primarily a PCB mill but may be used for wood / aluminium?
[12:57:20] <Mjolinor> I am tryign to decide if I need to put pulleys adn a belt and to set up the HAL file for the number of steps
[12:58:04] <Mjolinor> I will use an ER11 collett chuck so 6mm shank will be my biggest possible cutter but I htink the motor I am using would baulk at that size
[12:59:05] <jthornton> I think 20k for pcb, I'd have to go out to the shop to see what aluminum would need
[12:59:16] <Mjolinor> 20k max?
[12:59:26] <Mjolinor> for soemthign like a 0.1mm cutter?
[12:59:34] <jthornton> the smaller the cutter the faster you have to go to have the same SFM
[12:59:42] <Mjolinor> yup
[12:59:47] <jthornton> that was a SWAG
[12:59:54] <Mjolinor> just tryign to get a rough range
[13:00:17] <Mjolinor> this motor scares me
[13:00:41] <jthornton> what rpm can the motor do?
[13:00:42] <Mjolinor> brain is thinking, this only cost under £5 and its going at 40k rpm, stand clear
[13:00:52] <jthornton> 0.004" is a tiny cutter
[13:00:58] <Mjolinor> I dont know what it can do I bottled out at about 40k
[13:01:14] <jthornton> build a blast shield around it :)
[13:01:18] <Mjolinor> I want a safe to put it in if I am going to run it faster than that :)
[13:02:04] <Mjolinor> what about a minimum useful speed?
[13:02:35] <Mjolinor> it seems not to like to go less than about 4000 but that may be my settings in EMC
[13:03:11] <jthornton> for tiny stuff like that 4k should be ok
[13:03:31] <Mjolinor> so if I go for a range 4k to 25k with one step being 1k that shoudl be ok?
[13:03:38] <Mjolinor> as a ball park starting point I mean
[13:03:46] <Mjolinor> if so then I will direct drive the spindle
[13:04:22] <jthornton> that sounds ok, rigid tapping might be amusing to watch at 4k
[13:04:34] <Mjolinor> :)
[13:04:38] <Mjolinor> won't be doing that
[13:05:45] <Mjolinor> with a 2mm cutter that 4k gives me a cutting speed of 50km/min
[13:05:52] <Mjolinor> thats a hell of a cuttgin rate
[13:06:13] <jthornton> 50km?
[13:06:16] <Mjolinor> no it doesnt, 5km / min
[13:06:31] <jthornton> in aluminum?
[13:06:37] <Mjolinor> in anything
[13:06:51] <Mjolinor> thats the speed of the outside of the cutter if it is 2mm diameter
[13:07:02] <Mjolinor> seems a lot, maybe I need less than 4k rpm
[13:07:31] <jthornton> let me wander out to the shop and check the calculations
[13:08:19] <Mjolinor> I went looking for a web page but it's alot of web pages and understanding for cutting speeds and I have no knowledge whatsoever of it all
[13:09:40] <Mjolinor> I think 4000 rpm will be way to much for anyting over 0.5 mm diameter
[13:09:58] <Mjolinor> coffee, that may ease things a bit
[13:14:21] <Mjolinor> hmm, I go in the kitchen and the dog is sitting in his bed with his best "I didn't do it" face on
[13:14:40] <Mjolinor> the give away si the cream on his eyebrows and the dog shaped hole in the trifle
[13:16:12] <JT-Shop> a 6mm tool at 4k is only 228 SFM
[13:17:11] <Mjolinor> yup
[13:17:19] <Mjolinor> *12
[13:17:22] <Mjolinor> whoops
[13:17:35] <Mjolinor> workign in feet adn inches is confusing :)
[13:17:55] <JT-Shop> my carbide tools like 1600-2000 SFM for aluminum
[13:18:01] <Mjolinor> mind you I dont seem to be doing so well in mm and metres today
[13:18:18] <Mjolinor> ok, so that shoudl be OK then
[13:18:18] <theorbtwo> Mjolinor: google's unit conversion is quite good.
[13:18:36] <Mjolinor> but the brain goes stale if you dont use it
[13:18:39] <Mjolinor> :)
[13:18:43] <JT-Shop> Mjolinor: you have a spreadsheet program?
[13:18:50] <Mjolinor> I have a brain
[13:19:45] <Mjolinor> (I think Ill stick with direct drive, 4k to 25k should cover most things
[13:20:12] <Mjolinor> I have a chinglish manual for the speed controller and it is not the easiest thing to understand
[13:20:32] <Mjolinor> but as the speed controller is designed for an RC plane I think it has a minmum that is a lot
[13:21:27] <JT-Shop> (SFM*12)/(dia*pi)=RPM
[13:25:49] <theorbtwo> What is SFM, anyway -- somthing foot/minute. Straight?
[13:25:58] <theorbtwo> Oh. Square.
[13:26:09] <JT-Shop> Surface Feet per Minute
[13:26:28] <JT-Shop> so you guys might use SMM
[13:28:07] <Mjolinor> I dont use anything
[13:28:39] <Mjolinor> but I do use mm so SFM is kind fo alien, its not a problem it just doesnt suggest thigns in my head the same way a things in mm does
[13:28:49] <Mjolinor> kind of hard to say that and get over what I mean
[13:31:16] <JT-Shop> whatever units you use you might want to calculate the surface speed and use a sane chip load for the cutter/material
[13:33:07] <archivist> this also equates to horsepower required
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[13:51:59] <jthornton> archivist: was that your rotary thread cutter on the mailing list?
[13:52:49] <archivist> yes
[13:53:16] <jthornton> how does that work?
[13:53:52] <archivist> did you see the last msg with gcode
[13:54:04] <jthornton> no, let me look
[13:54:27] <archivist> the meat is G1 F.05 x-.063 Y[0-#20] Z[0-#5] A[0-#<rotation_angle>] (rotate blank 7 turns)
[13:55:20] <jthornton> ah, ok I see it now
[13:56:06] <archivist> its the you can cut a helix pre 2.5 line :)
[13:56:57] <archivist> with an A axis :)
[14:01:05] <A2Sheds> An interesting question came up last night. Whats the best way to use EMC to control several servos in velocity mode, no position needed?
[14:01:35] <archivist> he put that on the mailing list too
[14:01:57] <A2Sheds> say you're just controlling the speed of a web on a press
[14:03:29] <archivist> a web on a rolling mill is worse where each needs to be faster
[14:04:41] <archivist> needs a velocity/force feedback loop
[14:05:09] <A2Sheds> sure for the loop, what would you use for gcode?
[14:05:25] <jthornton> ABC
[14:06:03] * jthornton wonders why you even need g code for that
[14:06:11] <A2Sheds> G94?
[14:06:18] <archivist> not sure gcode makes sense then unless it is just a set point like M64
[14:07:32] <archivist> I mean M66/M67
[14:08:12] <archivist> M67/68 even better :)
[14:13:56] <A2Sheds> if you have one (1) set speed, what if you want to be able to vary the web speed while it is running?
[14:14:06] <A2Sheds> so you want more than just on/off
[14:14:42] <jthornton> you just do it with hal
[14:21:03] <A2Sheds> how about setting it up as multiple spindles so you can run a program of speeds and duration's?
[14:22:15] <jthornton> you could do that
[14:23:22] <A2Sheds> using HAL would be a nice way to have a pot or encoder turned by hand to adjust the speed
[14:23:34] <A2Sheds> back to HAL handbook for me
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[15:55:16] <Jymmmm> Does anyone happen to know how to get higher video resolution than ubuntu defaults to after installation?
[16:01:32] <Loetmichel> Jymmmm: vga cable?
[16:01:39] <Loetmichel> or nvidia card?
[16:02:00] <Jymmmm> vga
[16:02:01] <Loetmichel> mostly the problem lies within the auto doscovery of the monitor features
[16:02:33] <Jymmmm> funny thing, it's always ubuntu, not like knoppix
[16:02:45] <Jymmmm> just saying =)
[16:02:49] <Loetmichel> sometimes the cable hasnt wired the necessary ddc lines routed through, some times the nvidia cards dont get the information because of driver briken
[16:02:51] <Loetmichel> broken
[16:03:05] <Jymmmm> this is onboard intel video
[16:03:38] <Loetmichel> ok, if its in ubuntu and not in knoppix i would blame the driver for not identifying the monitor correctly
[16:04:06] <Loetmichel> you CAN get the modelines from an knoppix boot and put it in the ubuntu config
[16:04:28] <Loetmichel> but i have NO idea which autoconfic functions you have to disable then
[16:04:43] <Loetmichel> you KNOW ddc?
[16:05:01] <Jymmmm> Right now, I can't even get xrandr to work correctly, keeps saying cannot find mode 2048x1156
[16:05:36] <Loetmichel> hmmm
[16:05:41] <Loetmichel> no idea where to tune
[16:05:55] <Jymmmm> it's all good, thanks anyway
[16:05:57] <Loetmichel> but the ubuntu monitor config can "seee" the monitor?
[16:06:03] <Jymmmm> no
[16:06:13] <Loetmichel> and identify it correctly as Model/manufacturer?
[16:06:22] <Jymmmm> nope, it can't
[16:06:31] <Loetmichel> so it belongs to the ddc lines SOMEwhrer
[16:06:33] <Loetmichel> where
[16:06:54] <Loetmichel> i would check if there is a more up to date driver for the onboard graphics
[16:07:01] <Loetmichel> for starters
[16:07:54] <Jymmmm> this is a P4 intel mobo, It shouldn't be an issue imo
[16:10:33] <archivist> what part of the cable needs the ddc wires did you not understand Jymmmm
[16:10:34] <Loetmichel> i had this issue with nvidia cards
[16:10:48] <Loetmichel> but maybe intel isnt very well supported also
[16:11:17] <archivist> just fiddle with the x setup file
[16:11:26] <Loetmichel> archivist: if it runs with knoppix i would assume the cable correct ;-)
[16:15:19] <Loetmichel> If DDC runs correctly you should see something like this : http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12602
[16:15:38] <Loetmichel> ... just in english and with another moitor type i assume ;-)
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[18:46:02] <FinboySlick> Happy holidays to all and stuff.
[18:46:47] <FinboySlick> Anyone managed to fit a bridgeport under the tree?
[18:48:08] <archivist> machine the tree to fit above the bridgeport
[18:49:37] <A2Sheds> whats the min amount of memory needed to run the live CD? 768MB?
[18:50:03] <FinboySlick> A2Sheds: The ALIX booted it fine with 256M and no swap.
[18:50:42] <A2Sheds> thanks, maybe i was thinking of something else
[18:51:06] <FinboySlick> A2Sheds: I wouldn't try to have many tabs open in Firefox with that little RAM though.
[18:51:34] <A2Sheds> I found two older Epias with 256MB in the bottom of a box
[18:52:10] <FinboySlick> Assuming they can handle the RTAI bits, they'll probably run EMC fine.
[18:52:20] <A2Sheds> DDR 266 at that :p
[18:52:33] <FinboySlick> Hey, it had pretty darn good latency.
[18:53:07] <FinboySlick> Actually, I found that better ram improved my jitter even more.
[18:53:34] * FinboySlick thinks he's letting his Gentoo colors show.
[18:54:13] <A2Sheds> 2x 1GB ddr pc3200 for $18 free ship
[18:54:50] <FinboySlick> A2Sheds: If you can find OCZ's fancy PC3200 it has some very impressive timings.
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[18:56:15] <A2Sheds> Epia + stepper driver off EPP for 2 axis
[18:56:52] <A2Sheds> moving slow anyway, 25mm/sec tops
[18:57:03] <FinboySlick> I'm sure it'll be fine.
[18:58:11] <A2Sheds> BTW the Fusion boards had a latency jitter of ~13uS with factory BIOS/EFI
[18:59:08] <FinboySlick> A2Sheds: I get confused with units... Does that mean a jitter score of 13000?
[18:59:22] <A2Sheds> yes, 13,000 nS
[19:00:01] * FinboySlick decided to become smarter as his new years resolution, he still has 5 days of being dumb ahead though.
[19:01:51] <FinboySlick> Is there an advantage to microstepping smaller than the machine's positional accuracy? (say smoother curved cuts, etc)
[19:02:47] <A2Sheds> that's one use for microstepping
[19:02:54] <cpresser> FinboySlick: on the contrary. you will lose torque with finer microstepping
[19:03:21] <A2Sheds> then again microstepping would be the limit of the machines accuracy
[19:03:40] <FinboySlick> cpresser: Yeah, I was aware of the torque drawback... I'm trying to figure out the 'sweet spot' of sorts.
[19:03:41] <A2Sheds> depends on how much torque you need
[19:04:04] <archivist> FinboySlick, http://www.micromo.com/microstepping-myths-and-realities.aspx
[19:04:11] <FinboySlick> archivist: Yup, read that.
[19:04:30] <archivist> I stick to half step
[19:04:32] <A2Sheds> microstepping 1600oz/in steppers when you only need 90 oz/in will work
[19:04:54] <FinboySlick> archivist: with 5mm ballscrews and 200 step motors, half step is a bit coarse in my case.
[19:05:32] <archivist> sounds like gearing needed
[19:05:52] <A2Sheds> I rarely run a cutting tool so my loads rarely vary
[19:05:58] <archivist> microsteps are not accurate
[19:06:43] <FinboySlick> archivist: Don't think there's any room for it. But my steppers are pretty strong and the machine is smooth as silk (linear ways on all axis).
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[19:07:06] <cpresser> my machine allow a accuracy of 0.001mm with 1/4th microsteps. thats enough for me
[19:07:49] <archivist> but if a microstep is not accurate you dont get .001mm!
[19:07:53] <FinboySlick> archivist: My aim is to minimize microstepping and maximize curve quality.
[19:08:28] <archivist> define curve quality
[19:09:00] <A2Sheds> cpresser: what steppers and ballscrew pitch are you using?
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[19:09:26] <cpresser> A2Sheds: cant tell you now. I am at home
[19:09:36] <FinboySlick> archivist: I'm working on the assumption that if I don't microstep enough, any non-axial cut will be staggered. If I microstep too much, I lose torque.
[19:09:37] * archivist sees the resolution v accuracy trap in evidence
[19:09:57] <cpresser> steppers are default 1.8degrees per step.
[19:10:40] <archivist> only true for 200 step steppers
[19:11:42] <A2Sheds> 0.45 deg per 0.001mm
[19:12:24] <FinboySlick> I see no point in trying to get step sizes smaller than the machine's positional accuracy or even the amplitude of the cutter's vibration in a good cut.
[19:12:41] <FinboySlick> But I'm asking if there might be one.
[19:14:23] <archivist> the machines accuracy is defined by your drive system and measurement
[19:15:04] <FinboySlick> archivist: Isn't there (microscopic) play in bearings, ballscrews or whatever?
[19:15:13] <archivist> flexibility due to cut force you can measure and even fix/improve
[19:16:06] <archivist> you should fix all play and backlash, a good machine has 0 play( is pre loaded)
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[19:21:46] <archivist> emc2 can also adjust for your leadscrew accuracy
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[19:43:01] <motioncontrol> Good Cristmass at all.
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[21:15:32] <alex4nder-> hey
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[21:41:44] <skunkKandT> syyl: cool spindle synced motion video - how is the encoder working?
[21:42:04] <syyl> not to good ;)
[21:42:15] <syyl> the enlargened slots give a lot of noise
[21:42:24] <syyl> i will rebuild it next week
[21:42:44] <syyl> but, at least, it works :)
[21:48:26] <skunkKandT> neat
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[22:02:42] <Tom_itx> syyl, moving the slots didn't help?
[22:02:53] <syyl> ah bit
[22:03:13] <Tom_itx> make the next one adjustable
[22:03:20] <syyl> yeah
[22:03:27] <syyl> learning from mistakes :)
[22:03:48] <Tom_itx> it generally takes at least 3 pc boards to get one right i've found
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[22:04:38] <syyl> oh, with my pc boards that connect to the mesa card i had big luck
[22:04:59] <syyl> (and a professional electronics guy that looked over them)
[22:05:22] <Tom_itx> that helps
[22:05:39] <syyl> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/24396704/2011-12-14_19-58-49_984.jpg
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[22:05:57] <Tom_itx> yeah i saw those
[22:05:58] <Tom_itx> nice
[22:06:01] <syyl> (even as he laughed about my layouting skills ;) )
[22:06:28] <syyl> (with good reason)
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[22:31:48] * FinboySlick grumbles...
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[22:44:17] <FinboySlick> I definitely suck at aluminium cutting.
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[23:27:42] <Valen> and why is that?
[23:28:01] <FinboySlick> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQWaDXjdtCI <-- Proof :P
[23:28:48] <Valen> something sounds nasty in that spindle
[23:28:49] <FinboySlick> Audio is out of sync, but it's enough to give an idea.
[23:29:10] <Valen> what speed and feed are you using?
[23:29:21] <FinboySlick> 8000RPM, 12IPM
[23:29:29] <FinboySlick> 4 flutes, TiCN
[23:29:59] <FinboySlick> That ugly pass was 1/16" deep.
[23:30:02] <Valen> whats the cutter datasheet/book say?
[23:30:32] <FinboySlick> Don't have one for this cutter. It's very sharp though.
[23:30:56] <FinboySlick> It makes me feel like the spindle isn't doing the 8kRPM it claims to be doing.
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[23:33:03] <FinboySlick> I understand that with 2" stickout on a 1/4 endmill, I have to be gentle... But I didn't think 1/16" deep would be pushing it.
[23:34:41] <Valen> i have nfi lol
[23:34:44] <Valen> <- metric man
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[23:36:26] <FinboySlick> Um, about 6mm diameter, 5cm stickout and um, less than 1.6mm deep?
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[23:37:51] <Valen> doesn't sound too bad
[23:38:00] <Valen> i don't recall offhand what speed we run the cutter at
[23:38:00] <FinboySlick> Well, in the video it does.
[23:38:06] <Valen> why did it stop?
[23:38:16] <FinboySlick> I stopped it.
[23:38:39] <FinboySlick> You'd say from the sound that it was cutting smoothly?
[23:40:34] <FinboySlick> First pass was kind of okay, it really started struggling on the second (full 1/16" deep pass), at least to my ears. Maybe I'm just a wuss.
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[23:44:20] <Valen> lemme listen agin
[23:44:38] <Valen> first pass didnt sound too bad
[23:44:50] <Valen> the second did sound a bit like it was starting to labour
[23:44:57] <Valen> whats the wattage on your spindle?
[23:45:39] <Valen> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_udQwy1hJk&list=UUv7kWBMdmCAY0ICOI9rEeBw&index=23&feature=plcp is ours doing some cutting
[23:46:03] <FinboySlick> 0.8kW
[23:46:48] <frysteev_> you guys checking out each others spindle
[23:47:40] <Valen> though we normally run ~2mm or so DOC
[23:47:46] <Valen> we have the 3Kw
[23:47:48] <Valen> chinese one
[23:47:53] <Valen> and it slows down some
[23:48:26] <frysteev_> im picking up a 2kw laser this month
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