#emc | Logs for 2011-12-22

[00:00:07] -!- theorbtwo has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
[00:00:43] -!- skunkKandT has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[00:02:41] <mhaberler> ok, I think I have it - it will involve a documentation change so it might take an hour;)
[00:03:49] -!- theorbtwo [theorbtwo!~theorb@] has joined #emc
[00:04:44] <PCW> Andy maybe its the left shift... does the source have to be typecast into a U64 before doing this? (dont know enough C to know)
[00:07:58] -!- acemi has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2]
[00:10:21] -!- Nick001-Shop_ [Nick001-Shop_!~chatzilla@] has joined #emc
[00:11:53] -!- Nick001-Shop has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
[00:12:02] Nick001-Shop_ is now known as Nick001-Shop
[00:14:01] -!- Nick001-Shop_ [Nick001-Shop_!~chatzilla@clsm-74-47-117-89-pppoe.dsl.clsm.epix.net] has joined #emc
[00:14:59] <alex4nder-> PCW: you mean just (0xDEADBEEF << 32)?
[00:17:02] -!- Nick001-Shop has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
[00:17:11] Nick001-Shop_ is now known as Nick001-Shop
[00:23:30] <xavier_> ok bugreport sended
[00:26:16] <andypugh> PCW: Sorry, I have just been trying to get my machine to work.
[00:26:42] <andypugh> It won't boot with the PCI riser any more.
[00:26:58] <andypugh> Which means it won't work with the case closed any more.
[00:27:28] <andypugh> And I can't get blinky lights on remotes even with the sserial_port modparam.
[00:28:12] <andypugh> It is possible I have the wrong bitfile, I suppose.
[00:28:17] <PCW> OK I fixed the >30 bit error (at least for outputs)
[00:28:26] <andypugh> But it creates all the pins.
[00:28:50] <PCW> you need a u64 cast on the thing you are shifting
[00:29:13] <andypugh> Makes sense. Do you plan on making anything with more than 64 bits?
[00:29:30] <PCW> Not for a while anyway
[00:30:03] <PCW> should I send you the patch (to mesa_autoconf.c)
[00:30:17] <andypugh> If the green leds on a sserial remote flash during startup, then go to red, what does that mean?
[00:30:53] <andypugh> Yes, send me the patch. I need to stay in tomorrow waiting for a delivery anyway.
[00:31:00] <PCW> Thats what I get with no modparam
[00:31:04] <Turtl3boi> Hey andy did you get the new job yet
[00:32:09] -!- tom3p [tom3p!~tomp@c-71-234-238-21.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has joined #emc
[00:33:07] <tom3p> merry christmas! http://vimeo.com/33906165
[00:33:21] -!- factor has quit [Quit: Leaving]
[00:33:59] <andypugh> PCW: I think that it probably isn't the modparam. How many A-B-A-B iterations did you try?
[00:34:40] <PCW> A-B iterations?
[00:34:41] <PCW> Ill just email you he patched mesa_autoconf.c
[00:35:34] <andypugh> PCW: can you correlate modparam=works, no modparam=doesn't work 100%
[00:35:57] <andypugh> I get "nothing works" tonight.
[00:35:59] <mhaberler> xavier_: The fix is in master. Thanks for the report
[00:37:01] <xavier_> ok I will try now
[00:40:50] <andypugh> Perhaps I have worn out my PCI slot. Too much Mesa-card swapping.
[00:41:49] -!- tom3p has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
[00:42:23] -!- rob_h [rob_h!~rob_h@5ace7094.bb.sky.com] has joined #emc
[00:42:59] <PCW> OK 10 starts with valid modparame 10 starts with no modparam
[00:43:00] <PCW> absolutely consistent no modparam - blink at start but thats all + red lite and no coms
[00:43:01] <PCW> with modparam always OK
[00:43:21] <andypugh> That's very hard to explain.
[00:44:40] <PCW> re slot problems: might try cleaning card/slot with 99%IPA
[00:45:13] <andypugh> Imperial Pale Ale? I don't have any at the moment.
[00:45:48] <andypugh> I think the problem is probably a broken track in the flexi-riser
[00:45:50] -!- tom3p [tom3p!~tomp@c-71-234-238-21.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has joined #emc
[00:46:08] <PCW> probably a little lower alcohol than 99% isopropyl (but better tating)
[00:46:14] <PCW> tasting
[00:47:09] <PCW> without the patch setting bit 31 on a 7I71 sets bits 31 through 47
[00:47:38] <PCW> (looks like sign extended)
[00:47:46] -!- spacexula [spacexula!474ce4f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.] has joined #emc
[00:48:07] <andypugh> What modparam are you using? All-zeros? Because that is the default, and I don't see any reason that over-writing the default should change the behavour.
[00:48:39] <PCW> No let me try that I'm using 000XXXXX
[00:49:57] <spacexula> I am trying to desgin a 10mm tslot CNC based off one of the normal 20mm Tslot CNC, can anyone point me to a good design to start from?
[00:50:12] <spacexula> I am using a reprap to make all the parts besides the extruded aluminum
[00:51:34] <andypugh> spacexula: I don't understand the question
[00:52:12] <spacexula> andypugh: :) I know i am a moron :) Anyone know of a good design for a 20mm tslot cnc router? :)
[00:53:27] <andypugh> I don't know what you mean by "20mm T-slot". I know what a 20mm T-slot is, but don't know how that defines a machine.
[00:53:58] <tom3p> point us to a link for a 'normal 20mm Tslot CNC' so we can see what that is
[00:54:02] <spacexula> andypugh: http://www.pdjinc.com/parts.html example
[00:54:30] <spacexula> tom3p: I know I am sorry I am an admin with RepRap and have 10 of those machines but am completely CNC ignorant.
[00:55:17] <andypugh> Ah, you are referring to a specific size of extruded section?
[00:55:43] <tom3p> is the '20mm' characteristic that it uses 8020 strut material?
[00:56:01] <tom3p> yeh^^ my guess so far andy
[00:56:02] <spacexula> makerbeam/microrax is what I will be using, trying to keep the 3d pritned parts as small as possible.
[00:56:22] <spacexula> which is 10mm across
[00:56:22] <andypugh> I doubt he means that, I have never seen 10mm section.
[00:56:29] -!- Nick001-Shop has quit [Quit: I'm hungry-dinner time-going home]
[00:56:39] <PCW> andy OK same behavior with sserial_port_0=00000000 (works fine)
[00:56:54] <spacexula> andypugh: http://www.pdjinc.com/parts.html
[00:56:56] <andypugh> The smallest I have seen is 20x20 with a 6mm slot
[00:57:12] <spacexula> andypugh: sorry http://www.makerbeam.eu/epages/63128753.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/63128753/Categories
[00:57:22] <spacexula> I am using 10mm
[00:57:25] <spacexula> ^^
[00:57:50] <spacexula> But wanting a 20x20 6mm slot desgin to base it off of
[00:57:56] <andypugh> I got as far as "less beams" and my inner pedant recoiled...
[00:58:58] <andypugh> If I was making one of those, I think I would look around at all the other designs, and steal the ideas I liked.
[01:01:21] -!- jsr__ [jsr__!~jsr@in-184-1-118-203.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #emc
[01:01:43] -!- jsr__ has quit [Client Quit]
[01:01:44] <spacexula> andypugh: That's what I was hopeing to do, but I am just not finding that many desgins out there, didn't know if you knew a better place to look than cnczone and google
[01:02:12] <Tom_itx> mill or 3d printer?
[01:02:24] <spacexula> Didn't know if there was a http://www.thingiverse.com/ like site for cnc
[01:02:41] <spacexula> Tom_itx: mill, don't think a cnc can touch reprap for 3d printing
[01:02:52] <spacexula> But RepRap makes a HORRIBLE mill :)
[01:03:00] <Tom_itx> just caught the end of the conversation
[01:03:10] <Tom_itx> you want a reprap kit?
[01:03:25] <spacexula> Tom_itx: No I help run RepRap.org, I am trying to make a 3d printable mill
[01:03:31] <spacexula> I have 10 reprap
[01:03:35] <Tom_itx> ok
[01:03:41] <Tom_itx> do you know maxbots?
[01:03:52] <spacexula> Tom_itx: Yea :) you seen his mendelmax?
[01:03:57] <Tom_itx> yup
[01:04:02] <Tom_itx> i was gonna link it for you
[01:04:06] <spacexula> Little expensive but awsome machine :)
[01:04:07] <Tom_itx> no need
[01:04:14] <spacexula> Tom_itx: still will be a horrible mill
[01:04:23] <Tom_itx> yeah i'm sure
[01:04:25] -!- xavier_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[01:05:50] <Tom_itx> why do you have 10 repraps pray tell
[01:07:31] <andypugh> That's the idea isn't it? That they breed?
[01:07:32] <spacexula> 2 at hackerspace 3 at my house to help reproduce, 3 in loaner program around the world and 2 at local schools
[01:07:37] <mhaberler> xavier_: does it work for you?
[01:07:59] <spacexula> They only cost around $400 to make now
[01:08:12] <Tom_itx> that's not bad at all
[01:08:36] <Tom_itx> i thought maxbots was trying to make a cheap one but i haven't been following reprap much
[01:08:46] -!- xavier_ [xavier_!~xavier@fon31-2-78-240-230-109.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #emc
[01:09:36] <spacexula> Tom_itx: your really not going to beat prusa on price, mendelmax adds around $40 in cost but makes a much better looking, heavier, and more solid machine
[01:10:26] <xavier_> mhaberler your change seems to fix this failure, thank you again!
[01:10:58] <mhaberler> excellent. this was a very good bug report - included all the detail to reproduce
[01:11:34] <xavier_> I think there is an other pb with gladevcp : the button simulate probe block on "on" state time to time
[01:12:00] <xavier_> so the probe stop at the begining
[01:12:15] <xavier_> I will recheck this tomorow
[01:12:26] <mhaberler> yes, I noted that in vb - it is dependent on my speed clicking and releasing the button
[01:13:03] <mhaberler> I havent seen it on my rt machine
[01:13:28] <andypugh> PCW: This isn't going to get looked at tonight. I will see if I can summon up the enthusiasm to get may PC working and investigate tomorrow. It doesn't help that the workbench is completely full of a completely different prject.
[01:13:31] <xavier_> Ok so it's ok for me
[01:14:16] <xavier_> mhaberler what next about the bugreport?
[01:15:01] <xavier_> I need to close somthink?
[01:15:10] <mhaberler> I will close it since you said it works for you; note it related to some other bug - people now can browse the history and figure wether it pertains to what they see
[01:15:14] <xavier_> to reply?
[01:15:24] <mhaberler> no, I'll do it
[01:15:34] <xavier_> ok thx again
[01:15:42] <PCW> Andy Doesn't seem like a big deal ( the bad bit type output is more important)
[01:17:05] <mhaberler> xavier_: whats your platform - virtualbox?
[01:17:15] <xavier_> yes
[01:17:20] <mhaberler> host?
[01:17:28] <xavier_> xubuntu
[01:17:41] <xavier_> 11.10
[01:17:44] <PCW> Andy: the no modparam bug is checkable with 5I25/7I76
[01:17:50] <mhaberler> aja. so its ubuntu-in-unbuntu?
[01:17:55] <xavier_> vb 4.1.2
[01:17:59] <xavier_> yes
[01:18:01] <mhaberler> cool.
[01:18:12] <mhaberler> I use a macbook with vb
[01:18:15] <xavier_> first i compile emc2.6 on xubuntu
[01:18:23] <xavier_> I get the failure
[01:18:47] <xavier_> so I make a vb with linuxcnc ubuntu 9.10...
[01:18:50] <andypugh> PCW: I can't fit the 5i25 at all without the flexi-riser. And that was reporting the wrong cookie when I tried it.
[01:19:31] <xavier_> For the wine, the australian importation law seems to be strict on alcool. I will try to send you one, if i can't do you like chocolate?
[01:19:45] <PCW> I tried to make the 5I25 small...
[01:20:35] <andypugh> xavier_: If you send it to Australia mhaberler will have a long walk. He's in Austria.
[01:21:04] <andypugh> PCW: Yes, and it is, but my case has no back panel cutouts.
[01:21:08] <xavier_> Oupps!
[01:21:12] <mhaberler> its 'A-u-s-t-r-i-a'. No cangaroos here.
[01:21:26] <PCW> In the Vienna zoo
[01:21:29] <xavier_> Ola austria is ok
[01:21:46] <xavier_> for wine
[01:21:59] <mhaberler> alcohol importation laws, whats that?
[01:22:12] <xavier_> no for australia
[01:22:18] <PCW> My brother lives in Austria
[01:22:38] <xavier_> not autria
[01:22:42] <xavier_> austria
[01:22:58] <xavier_> no problem to send you a bottle of wine
[01:23:00] <andypugh> xavier_: Where are you?
[01:23:03] <xavier_> to austria
[01:23:11] <xavier_> France Toulouse
[01:23:13] -!- factor [factor!~factor@] has joined #emc
[01:23:53] <mhaberler> background material: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgCcaA1jQQk&feature=player_embedded
[01:23:55] <xavier_> Andy you are from England?
[01:24:06] -!- stormlight [stormlight!~jasonandt@c-50-131-96-59.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #emc
[01:24:17] -!- Eartaker has quit [Quit: By the time you read this I'll already be gone....]
[01:24:23] <andypugh> Yes
[01:24:52] -!- stormlight has quit [Client Quit]
[01:26:03] -!- Nick001 [Nick001!~nospam@plns-66-33-241-239-pppoe.dsl.plns.epix.net] has joined #emc
[01:28:12] -!- dgarr [dgarr!~dgarrett@adsl-75-61-74-108.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #emc
[01:28:41] <andypugh> xavier_: If you are sending French wine to Austria, don't forget to add some antifreeze.
[01:29:08] <xavier_> car anti-freeze? ;-)
[01:29:37] <andypugh> You must be younger than me
[01:29:53] <xavier_> 27
[01:29:59] <xavier_> perhaps
[01:30:00] <andypugh> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1985_diethylene_glycol_wine_scandal
[01:30:43] <xavier_> Waow!
[01:31:36] <andypugh> I would guess you were not drinking much wine in 1985
[01:31:51] <Loetmichel> re @ home
[01:32:23] <xavier_> I gess, i don't remember very well... alcool symptoms?
[01:33:16] <Loetmichel> That was a looong workday... startet at 8:00 yesterday
[01:33:29] <Loetmichel> now ist 02:33 over here... .
[01:33:36] <andypugh> Eeek!
[01:33:39] <Loetmichel> *YAWN*
[01:34:17] <xavier_> Arg
[01:34:19] <andypugh> I was just about the last one left at work at 4pm today. (factory shutdown now until the 3rd)
[01:34:28] <Loetmichel> and in 4.5 hours i have to get up again...
[01:34:56] <andypugh> Goodnight!
[01:35:05] <Loetmichel> 'cause we have to deliver the Computers at 23.12 08:00 :-)
[01:35:11] -!- rob_h has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
[01:35:38] * Loetmichel is to excited to go to bed. need another half hour or so to "come down"
[01:36:02] <andypugh> I guess a promise that they will be delivered this year, despite the fact that they won't be anyone around to use them until next year?
[01:37:27] <Loetmichel> right
[01:38:36] <andypugh> PCW: is 0000000 OK for you then?
[01:38:59] <andypugh> I can't see any reason to need an X.
[01:39:06] <xavier_> Gentlemen, here is 2:35am too and I am not so "excited" by nothing/nobody.... So good night and thank you for helping!
[01:39:16] <Loetmichel> and the fact that the government department as a customer has budget to "burn" end of year, and cant shioft taht to the new year
[01:39:48] -!- xavier_ has quit [Quit: Quitte]
[01:39:59] -!- Calyp has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
[01:45:06] <PCW> yes 00000000 is OK
[01:45:43] <PCW> I presume if you use a X the channel is not even probed (so safe for GPIO)
[01:45:51] -!- mhaberler has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
[01:45:56] -!- sumpfralle has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
[01:54:22] -!- skunkworks_ [skunkworks_!~chatzilla@str-bb-cable-south2-static-6-425.dsl.airstreamcomm.net] has joined #emc
[01:54:27] -!- Calyp [Calyp!~Caly@unaffiliated/calyptratus-tzm] has joined #emc
[01:55:13] -!- stormlight [stormlight!~jasonandt@c-50-131-96-59.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #emc
[02:04:19] <andypugh> I am utterly baffled about what is different between having, and not having, that modparam.
[02:06:37] <PCW> Yeah and this is consistent with the forum guys behavior (5I25/7I76)
[02:15:29] <andypugh> Well, if I can get my machine working again, I will look at it.
[02:23:33] -!- mhaberler [mhaberler!~mhaberler@] has joined #emc
[02:24:15] <PCW> Well Im sure it will work again eventually (a bare MB is probably better than testing with your real controller)
[02:25:23] <andypugh> Yes, well, I don't really want to buy yet another PC just for this testing.
[02:26:12] <PCW> do you want couple spare MBs? we have a few we bought to try and duplicate customer troubles (5252m and some intel 775 pin thing)
[02:26:12] <Jymmm> andypugh: use the one your talking on right now
[02:26:45] <PCW> Andys not on a PC...
[02:27:18] <Jymmm> They have paraports for macs
[02:27:59] <andypugh> Not this one, you need to find hidden latches and peel tape off to get to the HD
[02:28:14] <Jymmm> imac?
[02:28:18] <andypugh> Yes.
[02:28:25] <Jymmm> What year?
[02:28:52] <Jymmm> andypugh: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Xs_1QCyPAg
[02:28:57] <andypugh> You know, I am not sure
[02:29:17] <andypugh> But I have already swapped the HD.
[02:29:47] <Jymmm> It's a mac, plug in a usb hdd and hold the OPTION key when it boots
[02:29:47] <andypugh> It's the first Intel Mac
[02:29:49] -!- CmdrData [CmdrData!~CmdrData@ip72-199-20-172.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #emc
[02:33:41] -!- tom3p has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
[02:35:39] -!- LawrenceSeattle has quit [Quit: LawrenceSeattle]
[02:39:03] -!- CmdrData has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
[02:41:04] -!- CmdrData [CmdrData!~CmdrData@ip72-199-20-172.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #emc
[02:41:21] -!- mhaberler has quit [Quit: mhaberler]
[02:45:56] -!- CmdrData_ [CmdrData_!~CmdrData@ip72-199-20-172.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #emc
[02:47:51] -!- CmdrData has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
[02:50:22] -!- CmdrData_ has quit [Ping timeout: 253 seconds]
[02:51:08] -!- mozmck has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
[02:52:37] -!- mozmck [mozmck!~moses@client-] has joined #emc
[02:55:02] <elmo40> "don't think a cnc can touch reprap for 3d printing" I would rethink that statement. why would you think a cnc isn't up to stuff to a reprap?
[02:58:02] -!- Eartaker [Eartaker!~Eartaker@unaffiliated/eartaker] has joined #emc
[03:00:32] -!- clytle374 [clytle374!~clytle374@] has joined #emc
[03:00:49] -!- dgarr has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
[03:03:16] <spacexula> elmo40: Same reason that a RepRap can't mill well, the cartesians of both machines are optimized for what they do
[03:03:49] <Tom_itx> meh
[03:03:59] <Tom_itx> they're both stepper or servo driven systems
[03:04:17] <spacexula> Screw drive does not do will 3d printing, just like cheap belt drives don't work well for milling
[03:04:37] <andypugh> I can't see any reason that a mill shuldn't be able to position an extruder as well, or better, than a reprap.
[03:04:55] <Tom_itx> maybe needs to be quick is all
[03:05:20] <spacexula> andypugh: How fast can you change direction on a mill? I can go from 120mm/s x+ to 120mm/s x- in less than second
[03:05:36] <andypugh> I can see a really fast, rigid, mill being excellent, and costing 100x more than it needs to.
[03:05:56] <spacexula> andypugh: right, reprap can do it for $350-$400
[03:07:09] <andypugh> Spend enough, a mill can eat your reprap for lunch. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPrC9f4bsMw
[03:08:35] <spacexula> andypugh: RepRap $400 300mm/s head speeds
[03:08:58] <spacexula> It's just a completely different set of design goals
[03:09:41] <spacexula> CNC cleans reprap's clock in any numbers of ways, but on 3d printing dollar for dollar reprap kills CNC, and to get a CNC to do 3d printing as well as reprap you have to go to a pretty silly high level of quality
[03:10:15] <andypugh> I am not disagreeing with you. But I think some mills could reprap as a sideline pretty well, but it would be a waste.
[03:10:47] <spacexula> andypugh: exactly, would not disagree with you there, just like most pick n place could make a great 3d printer... but would be a sad waste
[03:11:05] <spacexula> But Pick n Place for the most part would also make a horrible mill
[03:11:33] <spacexula> It just shocks me that there is not a RepRap like project on the CNC side
[03:13:39] <andypugh> There are a few designs out there, but the spectrum of applications is wider
[03:14:52] <UncleGman> I have a question regarding m64/65 commands and the mesa 5i20, currently Im using air cylinders to trip levers on a manual machine, To do this I use this g-code (m64p3, g4p[.5], m65p3) to do this operation. Is it possible to signal these as momentary switches uinstead of having to use a timer then flick them back off?
[03:16:07] <cradek> you could use oneshot to get the pulse length you want, but you'd still need two lines of gcode to trigger it, and you may have synchronization problems. I bet the way you are doing it is by far the safest.
[03:16:29] <cradek> the way you have it, you know your gcode CAN'T get ahead of whatever this lever operates
[03:16:31] <UncleGman> k :( its adding up and killing my cycle times :(
[03:16:53] <cradek> wait, what's your actual problem? do you not need the .5 seconds?
[03:17:11] <UncleGman> I do need the .5 seconds but while thats happening.... nothing else can move :(
[03:17:34] <cradek> oh, so you want it to go on with the motion, even if the lever hasn't moved back yet. then try what I said.
[03:17:39] <UncleGman> I have to wait for every index of my turret or feedstock or spindle direction change
[03:17:52] <UncleGman> yeah
[03:18:08] <UncleGman> so I can hone in the speed.
[03:18:19] <cradek> sounds risky to me, with air-operated stuff
[03:18:34] <cradek> you oughta add switches so you can tell when whatever operation is done
[03:18:36] <UncleGman> all they do it lift trip levers which ride on a cam body
[03:19:04] <UncleGman> so long as they lift the trip high enough they trigger if held up for too long they double trip
[03:19:08] <cradek> for example my turret has a sensor for "made it back down and fully locked"
[03:20:13] <cradek> gotta run
[03:20:14] <UncleGman> eh, Im not too worried about it, its a very reliable geneve drive cam system and in most cases a crash forces the machine out of gear regardless of the servos
[03:20:30] <UncleGman> late
[03:20:32] <cradek> hope you get it fixed up to your liking, good luck
[03:20:36] <UncleGman> thx!
[03:22:23] -!- mshaver [mshaver!~mshaver@c-68-50-233-206.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has parted #emc
[03:23:34] -!- skunkworks_ has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 3.6.20/20110805212527]]
[03:26:18] -!- spacexula [spacexula!474ce4f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.] has parted #emc
[03:28:56] <elmo40> andypugh: those Brothers CNC always amaze me. This just blows me away! the speed in which the rotary indexes... DAMN http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NsYR8X6fndc
[03:29:06] -!- Turtl3boi has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
[03:29:27] -!- factor has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
[03:30:12] <elmo40> just look at it drill that hole! HOLY CRAP!
[03:30:20] <elmo40> sure, it is AL, but still.
[03:31:41] <andypugh> Their backround is sewing machines, I guess they have learned how to make fast mechanisms.
[03:32:15] <andypugh> This is still my favourite milling machine :-) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quN37YskoaM
[03:35:59] <clytle374> thru drill coolant will drill like that.
[03:37:11] <andypugh> That reminds me. There is a drill in the fire engine garage where the flutes run the full length, including the morse taper. Is that a coolant system?
[03:37:50] <elmo40> weird. but possible
[03:37:54] <Tom_itx> hmm the only ones i've seen are holes in the flutes
[03:38:18] <elmo40> andypugh: that is awesome ;) that hexapod cnc
[03:38:19] <clytle374> never seen such a thing
[03:38:24] <elmo40> reminds me of the Matrix ;)
[03:40:09] <clytle374> the hexapod even has a 3 phase motor, probably from RC stuff
[03:40:56] <andypugh> I like the way it steps back as if to say "look what I did"
[03:41:46] <elmo40> any thoughts on what I should offer? http://toronto.en.craigslist.ca/tor/tls/2718741522.html
[03:42:00] <clytle374> I'm kinda afraid of it, might try dental work on you
[03:43:39] <andypugh> elmo40: Do you have the space? And the electrical supply?
[03:44:08] <clytle374> elmo40, i've seen a few and they seem like good machines if taken care of, no idea on price
[03:46:33] -!- DaViruz has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
[03:46:58] <andypugh> eBay has them failing to sell at $3500 Biy-it-Now, so less than that
[03:47:23] <andypugh> Though to me $3500 for that would seem like a major bargain.
[03:47:38] <andypugh> (I did a completed-listings search)
[03:47:58] <clytle374> we just bought a Kitmiria(sp?) mycenter-4 for $3000
[03:49:01] <elmo40> good starting range.
[03:49:08] <elmo40> ill low ball it at $2500 ;)
[03:49:48] <andypugh> Make that conditional on it actually working.
[03:50:07] <elmo40> true
[03:50:18] <elmo40> I want to see it connected and making chips
[03:50:22] <andypugh> Right, time to sleep.
[03:50:29] <elmo40> I won't buy anything untested for more the $500
[03:50:31] -!- andypugh has quit [Quit: andypugh]
[03:50:34] <elmo40> ciao
[03:52:25] <clytle374> iirc that machine has dual screws on the quill, one of the few that should actually work well
[03:52:57] <clytle374> I don't think you can find many parts for the control
[03:54:54] <elmo40> parts? for the control?
[03:55:02] <elmo40> that is why I am here ;)
[03:55:14] <elmo40> mish-mash stuff together to make it work
[03:55:46] <clytle374> they're cheaper when broken ;)
[03:56:22] <clytle374> I'm pretty sure on the dual screws, stood out in my mind
[03:59:26] <clytle374> anyone got suggestions on new servos and amps? 1.5kw range
[04:03:12] -!- UncleGman has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[04:08:36] <elmo40> I only see the lower screw for raising the table. a single screw. I don't think the quill moves.
[04:13:28] <clytle374> It's been 3 years since I saw one, but I looked it over good since we were thinking of buying it. searching google now.
[04:15:40] <clytle374> Pretty sure it has 2 screws connected with a timing belt inside the head
[04:21:21] -!- dgarr [dgarr!~dgarrett@adsl-75-61-74-108.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #emc
[04:26:43] <clytle374> that's a had machine to find on google
[04:27:42] -!- Ze1982 [Ze1982!~Ze1982@ppp255-131.static.internode.on.net] has joined #emc
[04:28:22] <clytle374> *hard machine
[04:30:21] <elmo40> I know
[04:30:26] <elmo40> no exact model number to look up
[04:34:16] <clytle374> I'm having flashbacks of trying to fix the one I saw.
[04:34:25] <clytle374> I was a ghhost
[04:34:32] <clytle374> It was a ghost
[04:37:22] <jdhNC> I'd like to try an extruder head on my CNC router. Looks like more effort than I'm willing to put in right now though
[04:39:11] <elmo40> :p
[04:50:36] <clytle374> elmo40, this it? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUAEOThK-Xg
[04:51:26] <elmo40> so the table and the quill move. nice.
[04:51:36] -!- GoSebGo has quit [Quit: Bye]
[04:54:34] -!- factor [factor!~factor@] has joined #emc
[04:55:43] <elmo40> someone put a 4th on it. don't think with stock controller... says Mach3
[04:57:01] <clytle374> I'm sure it wasn't the stock control
[04:57:27] <clytle374> At least not a live 4th
[04:58:31] <clytle374> Where'd you see that?
[05:00:32] -!- Calyp has quit [Quit: Leaving]
[05:05:06] -!- clytle374 has quit [Quit: Leaving]
[05:16:40] <elmo40> a related vid from that link you posted
[05:17:18] -!- psha[work] [psha[work]!~psha@] has joined #emc
[05:21:22] -!- stormlight has quit [Quit: stormlight]
[05:55:42] -!- mhaberler [mhaberler!~mhaberler@] has joined #emc
[06:02:05] -!- Turtl3boi [Turtl3boi!~chatzilla@ip72-199-20-172.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #emc
[06:10:29] -!- Ze1982 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
[06:13:23] -!- dgarr has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
[06:13:46] -!- Ze1982 [Ze1982!~Ze1982@ppp255-131.static.internode.on.net] has joined #emc
[07:17:09] -!- Ze1982 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
[07:18:07] -!- Ze1982 [Ze1982!~Ze1982@ppp255-131.static.internode.on.net] has joined #emc
[07:47:09] -!- e-ndy [e-ndy!jkastner@nat/redhat/x-fakntxqonolwqtxf] has joined #emc
[08:13:03] -!- acemi [acemi!~acemi@unaffiliated/acemi] has joined #emc
[08:29:33] -!- ve7it has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[08:53:39] -!- OpenSpace has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
[09:07:59] -!- OpenSpace [OpenSpace!~ja@109-93-154-200.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #emc
[09:17:23] <Tectu> okay, am i right that i should put some optos between the parallelport and my l297?
[09:19:07] <mrsun> i guess :P
[09:19:19] <mrsun> if you dont want to burn the parport if something goes horribly wrong
[09:21:00] <Tectu> well
[09:21:03] <Tectu> how about latency
[09:21:08] <Tectu> i guess theres no problem with that, right?
[09:23:48] -!- Eartaker has quit [Quit: Leaving]
[09:24:08] <cpresser> correct. they are fast enough for not to care about it
[09:26:12] <Tectu> i guess 70kHz optos are fast enough?
[09:39:26] -!- rooks [rooks!~rooks@102-bem-18.acn.waw.pl] has joined #emc
[09:42:36] <rooks> merry xmas and other celebrations of this time of the year :) http://www.cyclelicio.us/2011/simple-bicycle-repair-guide/flowchart/
[09:43:49] <Tectu> well, kind of true, isn't it
[09:51:45] -!- OpenSpace has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
[10:04:07] -!- OpenSpace [OpenSpace!~ja@109-93-147-191.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #emc
[10:04:07] -!- cncbasher [cncbasher!~quassel@cpc15-hart9-2-0-cust101.11-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #emc
[10:09:46] -!- rob_h [rob_h!~rob_h@5ace7094.bb.sky.com] has joined #emc
[10:15:41] -!- Turtl3boi has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
[10:36:49] -!- OpenSpace has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
[10:48:11] -!- OpenSpace [OpenSpace!~ja@178-223-214-153.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #emc
[10:50:06] -!- cncbasher [cncbasher!~quassel@cpc15-hart9-2-0-cust101.11-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has parted #emc
[11:32:00] -!- Mjolinor [Mjolinor!~Mjolinor@cpc1-burn3-0-0-cust572.10-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #emc
[11:35:47] -!- mhaberler has quit [Quit: mhaberler]
[11:40:09] -!- mhaberler [mhaberler!~mhaberler@] has joined #emc
[11:51:22] -!- Loetmichel has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
[11:55:00] -!- Loetmichel [Loetmichel!Cylly@p54B15279.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #emc
[12:26:24] -!- mhaberler has quit [Quit: mhaberler]
[12:40:03] -!- factor has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
[12:56:47] <Tom_itx> http://www.publicsurplus.com/sms/auction/view?auc=656511
[12:57:40] -!- vezza [vezza!~andrea__@host75-12-dynamic.16-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #emc
[12:58:16] -!- factor [factor!~factor@] has joined #emc
[13:08:34] -!- acemi has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2]
[13:12:21] -!- mk0 [mk0!~x-ray@fiztech.basnet.by] has joined #emc
[13:13:19] <mk0> are there any good nesting programs for foam cutting? google is pretty silent.
[13:16:24] <Tectu> what the hell is foam?
[13:18:47] -!- mhaberler [mhaberler!~mhaberler@] has joined #emc
[13:19:43] -!- sumpfralle [sumpfralle!~lars@31-16-115-146-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #emc
[13:20:23] <TekniQue> like, polystyrene
[13:20:32] <Tectu> ah
[13:20:46] <TekniQue> usually cut with a hot wire
[13:24:08] -!- sumpfralle has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
[13:28:59] <awallin> would nesting of foam parts be any different from nesting in sheet metal cutting?
[13:29:32] <awallin> I would think the nesting problem is pretty well studied... (but probably NP-hard, if you care about the theoretical side of things)
[13:31:24] <TekniQue> well, for one, a hot wire cutter has no safe Z
[13:32:02] <TekniQue> moving to the starting position of the next part, you must take care not to intersect any previous part
[13:33:16] <awallin> ok, so it's like a laser cutter where the laser is constantly on...
[13:34:16] <mk0> i need optimization of scissorings - if i used the proper word.
[13:34:37] <mk0> only
[13:43:50] -!- mk0 has quit [Quit: поздравляю всех с кредитом. халява продолжается.]
[13:54:04] <Mjolinor> Loetmichel: How did you make the signal for hte RC speed controller?
[13:54:32] <Mjolinor> 1ms pulse per 20ms for minumum speed adn 2ms pulse per 20ms for maximum speed
[13:58:20] -!- Calyp [Calyp!~Caly@unaffiliated/calyptratus-tzm] has joined #emc
[14:01:20] -!- FinboySlick [FinboySlick!~shark@] has joined #emc
[14:08:36] -!- servos4ever [servos4ever!~chatzilla@74-47-246-73.dr01.hnvr.mi.frontiernet.net] has joined #emc
[14:10:59] -!- mhaberler has quit [Quit: mhaberler]
[14:13:15] -!- mhaberler [mhaberler!~mhaberler@] has joined #emc
[14:21:52] <Mjolinor> Loetmichel: Sussed it :) these little RC motor fairly whoosh
[14:22:31] <FinboySlick> Mjolinor: The brushless kind?
[14:22:45] <Mjolinor> yup
[14:23:30] <FinboySlick> Racing will do that to motors.
[14:23:44] <Mjolinor> coema long way have motors
[14:24:12] <Mjolinor> when I were a kid (50 years ago) we used to shim the magnets to get more power n scalextrix cars
[14:24:27] <Mjolinor> it jsut remionded me of that when they arrived this morning
[14:25:16] <FinboySlick> Going brushless was definitely the 'turbo moment' for RC motors.
[14:26:00] <Mjolinor> when it comes down to it all capable motors are jsut variations on steppers
[14:26:02] <FinboySlick> Mjolinor: Are you using hacking them into positioning motors?
[14:26:20] <Mjolinor> technically this set up is no different from the VFD adn AC induciton motor
[14:26:30] <Mjolinor> no I am going to use it for my spindle
[14:26:33] <Mjolinor> on a PCB mill
[14:26:52] <FinboySlick> Mjolinor: Pretty clever.
[14:27:01] <Mjolinor> not my idea :)
[14:27:19] <Mjolinor> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=11519&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
[14:27:23] <FinboySlick> For constant duty, you might need cooling though.
[14:27:29] <Mjolinor> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=10674
[14:27:37] <Mjolinor> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=10671
[14:27:49] <Mjolinor> that is one Loetmichel made
[14:27:51] -!- syyl [syyl!~syyl@p4FD14A12.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #emc
[14:27:58] <FinboySlick> Yup, you just reminded me that I want a lathe ;)
[14:29:03] <Mjolinor> i think cooling may not be necessary
[14:29:15] <Mjolinor> I am only using them at about 20% of their rated capacity
[14:29:49] <Mjolinor> they are pretty amaxing though, you cvan get about 200 watts of power out of a thinble sized motor :)
[14:29:58] <Mjolinor> thimble
[14:32:11] <FinboySlick> Yeah. I still wonder if they could be hacked into servos.
[14:32:24] <FinboySlick> It would probably require some gearing to be useful though.
[14:34:41] -!- elmo40 has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
[14:35:48] -!- elmo40 [elmo40!~Elmo40@CPE002129acb2d3-CM001bd7a89c28.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #emc
[14:46:01] -!- GoSebGo [GoSebGo!~Seb@] has joined #emc
[15:00:41] <syyl> hehe, got this wall-card from ebay
[15:00:42] <syyl> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/24396704/2011-12-22_16-00-27_578.jpg
[15:00:54] <syyl> maybe i hang it up in my livingroom
[15:02:26] <Vq> A shaping machine, neat!
[15:04:34] <Mjolinor> wonderful things but not exactly a candidate for CNC
[15:04:51] <syyl> oh, my shaper stays manual!
[15:06:55] <syyl> even, if a cnc shaper would be very interesting
[15:07:09] -!- vezza has quit [K-Lined]
[15:13:43] -!- psha[work] has quit [Quit: leaving]
[15:17:27] -!- acemi [acemi!~acemi@unaffiliated/acemi] has joined #emc
[15:21:33] -!- mhaberler has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
[15:24:03] <FinboySlick> Now I'm curious as to how a shaper actually works.
[15:24:47] <syyl> like a lathe, only in the flat
[15:24:49] <syyl> :)
[15:25:05] <FinboySlick> So sort of like a 'scraper'?
[15:25:23] <Mjolinor> and they grunt when they are working :)
[15:25:31] <Mjolinor> very satisfying to use
[15:25:33] <syyl> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGqRmLlTbtY&list=UUY8gSLTqvs38bR9X061jFWw&index=10&feature=plcp
[15:25:37] <syyl> slomo of mine ;)
[15:25:47] <syyl> there you can see the process pretty good
[15:26:30] <FinboySlick> Wow, that's awesome finish.
[15:26:43] <syyl> its a toolmakers shaper
[15:26:49] <syyl> in awesome condition :D
[15:26:55] <syyl> got it almost like new
[15:27:04] <syyl> ran under 50hours
[15:27:35] <FinboySlick> Oh, and it lifts the tool on the way back?
[15:27:54] <Mjolinor> they have a clapper box
[15:28:10] <Mjolinor> so the tool lifts itself by bashing on the work :)
[15:28:39] <FinboySlick> Mjolinor: I sort of thought it would lift the tool to avoid that.
[15:28:52] <Mjolinor> no
[15:28:59] <Mjolinor> pretty basic grunting machines :)
[15:34:49] <pcw_home> heres a pretty good sized cut: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnE_h5qmjpk&feature=related
[15:43:35] <syyl> bigger machines lift the tool automaticaly
[15:44:11] <syyl> mr. muellers shaper is another kind of beast
[15:44:11] <syyl> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psUZmMxY3-s
[15:44:46] -!- Gromits [Gromits!~chatzilla@] has joined #emc
[15:45:35] bootnecklad1 is now known as bootnecklad
[15:48:26] -!- stormlight [stormlight!~jasonandt@c-50-131-96-59.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #emc
[15:51:34] <MattyMatt> a cnc one would be simpler to make I'd guess. a lot of mechanisms in that
[15:53:23] -!- jthornton has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
[15:53:23] -!- JT-Shop has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
[15:55:21] <MattyMatt> nice machines. I thought they were nearly obsolete
[15:55:40] -!- jthornton [jthornton!~chatzilla@216-41-156-59.semo.net] has joined #emc
[15:55:55] <syyl> they are
[15:56:12] <FinboySlick> replaced by good mills and surface grinders I imagine.
[15:56:23] <syyl> but they are fun to run, cheap on tooling and pretty versitale
[15:56:35] <syyl> drawback: slow
[15:58:52] <MattyMatt> and big
[15:59:08] <MattyMatt> that's a lot of floorspace compared to the workpiece
[15:59:11] <syyl> mine is small :D
[15:59:34] <syyl> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/24396704/2011-10-13_21-41-58_676.jpg
[15:59:47] <syyl> 200mm stroke, 300mm traverse
[16:00:29] <MattyMatt> a vertical one under the floor would be cool. all you have above floor is a vertical bed
[16:00:32] <FinboySlick> syyl: Nice shop!
[16:01:07] <FinboySlick> All organized and clean.
[16:01:09] <MattyMatt> but then you'd be fighting gravity on the power stroke
[16:01:21] <syyl> thank you :=)
[16:01:57] <FinboySlick> syyl: What model of lathe is that? It looks like just the size I'd be looking for.
[16:02:02] <MattyMatt> and in the corner to the right are the toilet and shower >:)
[16:02:17] <syyl> its a chinese 9x20...
[16:02:31] <syyl> this one is sold by hbm here in germany
[16:02:51] <Gromits> syyl: I saw your video on friction drilling yesterday
[16:03:04] <FinboySlick> syyl: Oh darn, there goes all your merit for cleanliness.
[16:03:11] -!- bootnecklad has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.2.6]
[16:03:12] <syyl> *ducks*
[16:03:26] -!- bootnecklad [bootnecklad!~bootneckl@vm4.telegraphics.com.au] has joined #emc
[16:04:22] <MattyMatt> do you need a special machine for friction drilling? or will any high speed spindle do?
[16:04:49] <FinboySlick> MattyMatt: I'm assuming you might want one that has a thrust bearing.
[16:04:50] <syyl> i tried it with the cheapest drill press thats availibe
[16:04:51] <syyl> :D
[16:05:03] <Gromits> I just learned of friction drilling visiting Fabtech (conference in Chicgao). A company called FlowDrill sells them. It was amazing.
[16:05:11] <syyl> the commercial "flow drill" works in every drillpress
[16:05:19] <syyl> needs a bit grunt on the spindle
[16:05:32] <MattyMatt> how much were bits? and how long do they last?
[16:05:36] <Gromits> Then I was talking to a friend who runs a machine shop and does custom tools. He has been making these things for a customer for a number of years
[16:05:51] <syyl> dont know how much the flow drills are
[16:05:52] <Gromits> The trick is a special formulation of carbide
[16:06:07] <syyl> i just used a shank of a broken carbide drillbit
[16:06:20] <MattyMatt> sweet :) I vahe those
[16:06:26] <Gromits> Flow drills are on the order of 600 to get the kit, which is basically a ER20 or 25 holder with a heat sink attached
[16:06:28] -!- bootnecklad has quit [Client Quit]
[16:06:31] <Gromits> Then bits are about 100 ea
[16:06:37] -!- bootnecklad [bootnecklad!~bootneckl@vm4.telegraphics.com.au] has joined #emc
[16:06:56] <Gromits> my friend was making them for his customer for less than $50
[16:07:42] <Gromits> The cool thing about the bits is you can get two styles: one rounds over the top so you piece then has a lip or built-in washer. the other style has a cutting edge on it and it shaves off the lip for a flush surface
[16:08:11] <MattyMatt> that's doable. it looks a great way to get a decent thread into thin sheet or tube
[16:08:35] <Gromits> Yes, it makes a wall down into your piece that can be tapped.
[16:08:38] <MattyMatt> yeah I saw both types in a video
[16:09:16] <Gromits> the right mix of carbide will allow the tool to heat up very fast and it truns red in about 5 seconds or less
[16:09:28] -!- bootnecklad has quit [Client Quit]
[16:09:34] -!- bootnecklad [bootnecklad!~bootneckl@vm4.telegraphics.com.au] has joined #emc
[16:09:36] <Gromits> you want a conical, rounded tip
[16:10:18] <Gromits> they last a long time apparently
[16:10:45] <MattyMatt> I have a bunch of 1/8" shank fine tipped tools that have broken off at the end of the taper. they are nearly right already
[16:11:04] <syyl> thats what i uses, MattyMatt
[16:11:15] <MattyMatt> sweet
[16:11:34] <Gromits> my friend was saying that his customer got a bunch and then disappeared. When he followed up a year or two later, the guy told him they last so long it would be a while before they ordered more.
[16:12:12] <MattyMatt> and I have ER16 collet chucks to make spindles with
[16:12:50] <MattyMatt> I'm guessing thru-bore coolant is a nono
[16:13:10] <Gromits> by the way, the heat sink that flowdrill has is nice, protects the quill from the heat, but it isn't essential. You could probably rig a simple alum collar that suffices
[16:13:17] -!- e-ndy has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
[16:13:54] <MattyMatt> or run the shaft & bearings in an oil bath?
[16:14:01] <Gromits> coolant would defeat the purpose
[16:14:09] <MattyMatt> arr
[16:14:11] <Gromits> heat good, cool bad
[16:14:35] <syyl> cooleant will kill the tool, i think
[16:14:45] <syyl> when applied to the glowing carbide
[16:15:05] <MattyMatt> I almost feel like trying it with my 140W 36krpm dremel
[16:15:10] <Gromits> the other neat thing about it is, if you are using the round-over bit, there is no swarf at all, nothing.
[16:15:20] <syyl> way to fast MattyMatt
[16:15:27] <syyl> 1000-3000 is right
[16:15:32] <MattyMatt> o'rly?
[16:15:44] <MattyMatt> hell yeah. I'll use my new press
[16:15:55] <Gromits> Yeah, they were running it on an old craftsman drill press (500-1000rpm I think)
[16:16:43] <Gromits> run of the mill carbide will work (as syyl found out) but it takes longer to heat up
[16:18:09] <MattyMatt> I just bought a load of m4 rivet nuts, so I can use them to clean up any failures
[16:19:09] <MattyMatt> this could change a few plans. I thought this was expensive
[16:20:15] <MattyMatt> yet thin-walled square steel tube is cheap
[16:20:56] * MattyMatt going to try it right now
[16:21:18] <syyl> you will need a fair ammount of pressure
[16:21:43] <Gromits> flowdrill said the length of the inner wall that is formed is 3 times thickness of the metal (fyi)
[16:23:49] <MattyMatt> I chickened out. I don't want to distemper my nice new chuck
[16:24:10] <MattyMatt> looked more like 6 times in the vid I saw
[16:25:43] <MattyMatt> no it doesn't http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NhkWINPRK3A
[16:25:43] <Gromits> wrap an aluminum disk around it clamped to the bit. Will keep dissipate the heat there.
[16:28:21] <Gromits> whoa, did you see the bit when they drilled the titanium? cool.
[16:30:37] <Gromits> Self tapping screws also work nicely. Apparently the auto companies are using them quite a bit and using self-tapping screws.
[16:38:36] -!- Turtl3boi [Turtl3boi!~chatzilla@ip72-199-20-172.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #emc
[16:39:47] <Gromits> Configuration question. I am trying to get a gantry config running with Trivkins. it works with Gantrykins, but i want to run it with Trivkins.
[16:40:20] <Gromits> This machine has servos in a pid loop, generating velocity mode steps out to a Granite drive.
[16:40:39] <Gromits> I want to slave Y and Y2 motors.
[16:41:16] <syyl> pid and stepgen?
[16:41:36] <Gromits> For the Y2 motor (called "A" because of COORDINATESD= X Y Z A), I changed one line:
[16:41:57] <Gromits> net A.pos-fb axis.3.motor-pos-fb <= hm2_7i43.0.encoder.03.position => pid.3.feedback
[16:41:59] <Gromits> net Y.pos-cmd axis.1.motor-pos-cmd => pid.3.command
[16:42:01] <Gromits> net A.enable axis.3.amp-enable-out => hm2_7i43.0.stepgen.03.enable => pid.3.enable
[16:42:02] <Gromits> net A.pos-out pid.3.output => hm2_7i43.0.stepgen.03.velocity-cmd
[16:42:04] <Gromits> net a-index-enable axis.3.index-enable <=> hm2_7i43.0.encoder.03.index-enable
[16:42:35] <Gromits> The line net Y.pos-cmd... pipes the same position command to the pid.3 (same as Y being piped to pid.1)
[16:43:07] <Gromits> It moves in sync, but ferror accumulates linearly on the Y2 motor until it faults
[16:43:17] <Gromits> Not sure why
[16:43:52] -!- Ze1982 has quit [Quit: Leaving]
[16:44:14] -!- factor has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
[16:45:09] <Gromits> yes, essentially pid and stepgen.
[16:45:15] <syyl> (i might come back to you for a few questions related to that in a few days)
[16:45:29] <syyl> waiting for my glas scale...
[16:46:07] <Gromits> sure, be happy to help if I can.
[16:46:35] <Gromits> i am still learning myself though so no guarantees :-)
[16:46:43] <syyl> want to run steppers closed loop with glass scales ;)
[16:46:49] <syyl> me too...trynerror
[16:47:00] <syyl> more error..
[16:47:46] <Gromits> yep. I have a small mill (EMCO) with steppers and encoders, but have't (yet) tried to go full closed loop. It is still nice using the encoders to get accurate dro and to fault if there are missed steps.
[16:47:54] <pcw_home> So two completely independent PID loops except the both have the same command?
[16:48:22] <Gromits> Yes, pcw_home. I believe this was your idea ;-)
[16:48:40] <Gromits> No, not that part actually - just the velocity mode part....
[16:48:44] <pcw_home> And both have identical tuning parameters?
[16:48:54] -!- bootnecklad_ [bootnecklad_!~bootneckl@host-89-240-126-70.as13285.net] has joined #emc
[16:48:55] <jdhNC> I picked up an X2 yesterday for $225, still covered in grease
[16:49:07] <Gromits> No, because they are independent motors and were tuned separately
[16:50:11] <pcw_home> The local granite tuning may be different but I would think EMCs has to be identical
[16:50:25] <Gromits> Oh, let me look at that.
[16:50:53] -!- bootnecklad has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
[16:50:56] <pcw_home> especially the FF1 value
[16:51:30] <Gromits> actually it turns out EMC has identical parameters: P=2-, FF1=1 FF2=0.007, all else 0
[16:51:38] <Gromits> P=20
[16:52:40] <Gromits> the move in sync, and seem fine and the encoder values seem to match as it moves, yet when I scope axis.3.f-error it just increases until fault
[16:52:41] <pcw_home> lost steps or encoder counts?
[16:52:45] <Gromits> the==they
[16:53:47] <Gromits> how can i determine if it is one or the other?
[16:54:31] <pcw_home> does one axis always lag?
[16:55:07] <Gromits> It is always axis.3 (Y2) and it always just increases until whatever value i have set for max ferror
[16:55:45] <pcw_home> increases in a positive direction?
[16:56:43] <Gromits> well it depends on direction, one direction it goes up, the other, down.
[16:57:06] <Gromits> if I move back and forth within 0 to Max Ferror I could move all day
[16:57:53] <Gromits> if I set max ferror to be 53" it will go all the way across the table no problem
[16:58:33] -!- e-ndy [e-ndy!~jkastner@static-84-242-102-36.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #emc
[16:58:52] <pcw_home> sounds like something is miswired in the PID connections
[16:59:41] <pcw_home> or the granite drives step scaling is different
[16:59:41] <archivist> form the ferror description is there any y2 feedback
[16:59:45] <archivist> from
[16:59:52] <Gromits> I want to slave the two (obviously), Andy Pugh suggested just using one of the position cmds and sending it into both pids. That is what I did, I think...
[17:00:13] <Gromits> Yes, Y2 is using is
[17:00:23] <Gromits> oops... it's own encoder
[17:00:47] -!- factor [factor!~factor@] has joined #emc
[17:01:14] <Gromits> net A.pos-fb axis.3.motor-pos-fb <= hm2_7i43.0.encoder.03.position => pid.3.feedback
[17:01:41] -!- Calyp has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
[17:01:42] <Gromits> and as I said, I can see the "A" axis in the dro and it tracks perfectly with the Y axis...
[17:04:05] <pcw_home> how big does the FERROR get?
[17:04:30] -!- bootnecklad [bootnecklad!~bootneckl@vm4.telegraphics.com.au] has joined #emc
[17:04:56] <Gromits> up to the FERROR setting in the .ini
[17:05:18] <Gromits> currently 4" but I can set it to anything and it will go there
[17:06:12] -!- bootnecklad_ has quit [Quit: Leaving]
[17:07:47] <pcw_home> What is the size of the error relative to the size of the motion?
[17:07:49] <pcw_home> Sure sounds like either the encoder or stepgen feedback is not connected right to the PID loop
[17:08:10] <pcw_home> I assume you have 2 stepgens
[17:08:34] <pcw_home> does one have to run in the opposite direction of the other?
[17:11:23] <Gromits> yes, one has to run in opposite direction and I have 2 stepgens. Herre are the two Y configs: http://pastebin.com/QPzigHi5
[17:12:11] <Gromits> I have negative scale/input scale set on one vs the other
[17:13:00] <Gromits> hmm, could that be it?
[17:13:40] <alex4nder-> hey
[17:13:41] <Gromits> Does scale, or input scale (or of them - I always forget which does which) need to be the same for both?
[17:14:33] <pcw_home> Probably has something to do with it (and perhaps some inadvertent cross coupling)
[17:15:56] <pcw_home> No they should be totally independent just like normal axis
[17:15:59] -!- Calyp [Calyp!~Caly@unaffiliated/calyptratus-tzm] has joined #emc
[17:16:34] <pcw_home> but i would still guess theres an accidental swap somewhwre
[17:16:49] <Gromits> oh poop, that wasn't it. A really bad racking happened when I set the scales to the same. ouch...
[17:18:33] <MattyMatt> nice
[17:18:55] <MattyMatt> ^me was scrolled to $225 X2
[17:21:37] <Gromits> Here are my .ini settings for Y's: http://pastebin.com/ZGNSjZBe
[17:23:27] <Gromits> Could having: "net Y.pos-cmd axis.1.motor-pos-cmd => pid.1.command" and then: "net Y.pos-cmd axis.1.motor-pos-cmd => pid.3.command" on separate lines be a problem?
[17:23:56] <Gromits> Should I try: net "Y.pos-cmd axis.1.motor-pos-cmd => pid.1.command pid.3.command" ?
[17:24:10] <Gromits> But, it is moving together.... :-(
[17:25:54] <awallin> we probably need a better description of what you want to do...
[17:26:05] -!- servos4ever has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
[17:27:15] <Gromits> I want to slave two motors. I have a gantry with two motors on the Y axis.
[17:28:58] <awallin> ok. you are using both stepgen and pid. could you explain that?
[17:32:06] <Gromits> well, i have servo motors (hence pid), and I am driving Granite vxd-e drives with a velocity mode stepgen.
[17:36:06] <awallin> I have a feeling you should not connect anything to emc2/motion "A"-axis or axis3
[17:36:28] <Gromits> I have to. I have a motor there
[17:36:29] <awallin> for emc/motion it should just look like one y-axis. they can be slaved in HAL without motion needing to know
[17:38:22] <awallin> well the other option is to actually have emc2/motion care about both axes. then to move the machine you would say G1Y25A25
[17:38:39] -!- CmdrData_ [CmdrData_!~CmdrData@ip72-199-20-172.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #emc
[17:39:30] <awallin> or maybe naming it V would make more sense (UVW are the secondary XYZ axes I think)
[17:40:10] <Gromits> I can name it V, but I don't think that will make a difference in terms of this problem.
[17:40:32] <Gromits> It might just get rid of the radial jog slider... but other than that.
[17:40:36] <awallin> no. are you seeing the following-error on the A-axis?
[17:44:53] <awallin> are you using this? http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.4/html/man/man9/gantrykins.9.html
[17:45:12] <awallin> it's probably doable with default kinematics, but might be much easier with gantrykins
[17:45:18] <Gromits> No, I want to use Trivkins. It works now, under gantrykins.
[17:45:49] <Gromits> I have it working with Gantrykins but there are several bad bugs in World Mode/Joint Mode, which all goes away with Trivkins.
[17:45:55] <awallin> ok, so I would maintain that you are confusing emc2 if you define an A-axis with trivkins
[17:47:07] <Gromits> i will try using V, but I don't think it will help. It is a pain to do that because I have to have 7 axes defined, and change my config to uses axis.7, blah blah. I am at a loss though so I guess I will try anything.
[17:48:25] -!- AndChat- [AndChat-!~Seb@184-229-165-133.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #emc
[17:49:07] <awallin> with gantrykins I assume both Y-axes move when you say G1Y25
[17:49:16] <Gromits> yes
[17:49:24] <Gromits> it also does in Trivkins.
[17:49:30] <awallin> with trivkins, do you want to program the machine with G1Y25A25, allways syncing Y and A manually?
[17:49:36] <Gromits> no
[17:49:42] <Gromits> definitely not
[17:49:59] <Gromits> And as I say, even now (using A) it moves both Y's in sync
[17:50:03] <awallin> ok, so are there other reasons for an A-axis? homing
[17:50:23] <Gromits> There has to be a 4th axis. I don't care if it is A or Z :-)
[17:50:35] <Gromits> not 4th axis, but 4th joint (motor)
[17:50:57] <Gromits> it's just emc uses the term axis (imprecisely).
[17:51:07] <awallin> ok, great. but that can be just a stepgen and a pid in HAL ? not an axis/joint defined in the INI?
[17:51:29] -!- GoSebGo has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
[17:53:54] <Gromits> Really? If I set AXES=3 COORDINATES=X Y Z, I get: axis.3.motor-pos-fb - so how do I control that motor?
[17:54:19] <Gromits> Sorry, I get: a2gantry-triv.hal:421: Pin 'axis.3.motor-pos-fb' does not exist
[17:54:59] <Gromits> I need axis.3.FOO to control my other motor
[17:56:10] <awallin> no, if you want them slaved, you use axis.2 or whatever is the master
[17:56:42] <awallin> detecting ferror on the slaved axis might be tricky... requires some custom hal maybe
[17:57:08] <Gromits> that doesn't work because I can't have two encoders fed to one axis.2.pos-fb ,etc etc
[17:57:26] <Gromits> I have to have 3 pids to control each motor
[17:57:30] <awallin> correct. the slave encoder signal would go only to the slaves pid
[17:58:00] <awallin> and you would need some custom mechanism for detecting ferror on the slave
[17:58:16] <awallin> I guess this is why someone came up with gantrykins...
[17:58:46] <Gromits> sigh
[17:59:25] <pcw_home> Yeah maybe the ferror calculation makes some assumptions that dont work (especially when you have two axis moving in opposite direction)
[17:59:48] <awallin> ferror should be just commanded-actual position
[18:00:08] <awallin> bit if you define an A axis and then don't command that A axis a ferror is very natural!
[18:00:21] <Gromits> yeah, and it obviously isn't because the motors are moving in sync and the dro shows the encoders are happy
[18:00:36] <pcw_home> well theres the velocity proportianal bit
[18:00:45] <Gromits> ?
[18:01:04] <awallin> you just said you move it with G1Y25 . where is the A command in that?
[18:01:16] <Gromits> There isn't!
[18:01:26] <Gromits> Yet it moves.
[18:01:35] <pcw_home> Can you change the external wiring so the motors look (to EMC) to be going the same way
[18:01:37] <Gromits> mysterious eh? :-)
[18:01:37] <awallin> ok, so command and actual for A will be off, and you get ferror
[18:02:11] <Gromits> I could try swaping the motor wires on one
[18:02:13] <pcw_home> Whys is there a A axis?
[18:02:20] <awallin> ha :)
[18:02:22] <Gromits> heheheheh
[18:02:29] -!- maximilian_h [maximilian_h!~bonsai@] has joined #emc
[18:02:55] <Gromits> ok, i have recovered my breath from that laugh now ;-)
[18:03:36] <awallin> pcw_home: my recommendation earlier was either gantrykins with XYYZ, or trivkins with XYZ and slaving Y1/Y2 _only_ in HAL
[18:04:00] <Gromits> I have an A axis because if I only define X Y and Z, I don't get (for example) axis.3.motor-pos-fb
[18:04:37] <awallin> ok, and using that approach I'm saying the natural way to move the machine is G1Y25A25
[18:04:41] <pcw_home> Why would you want it?
[18:05:12] <Gromits> what do I feed hm2_7i43.0.encoder.03.position => pid.3.feedback to if I don't have that?
[18:05:49] <awallin> nowhere. you trust it will be similar(ish) to the master (which is wired to motion)
[18:05:54] <pcw_home> nothing
[18:06:02] <awallin> OR, you come up with some custom ferror checking if you want
[18:06:13] <cradek> if you have half of your gantry as A and you program g20/g21 you will have a big surprise. you should completely abandon this line of thinking.
[18:06:25] <Gromits> I can't feed both hm2_7i43.0.encoder.03.position and hm2_7i43.0.encoder.01.position to axis.1.motor-pos-fb
[18:06:46] * awallin goes to the gym. many cooks in the kitchen now..
[18:06:46] <pcw_home> leave the slave axis unconnected
[18:07:29] <pcw_home> Gromits wont suffer from lack of advice
[18:07:32] <Gromits> I guess I just don't know how to do that, if I have to feed a position command to a pid
[18:08:22] <Gromits> can you tell me what the last paragraph here: http://pastebin.com/QPzigHi5 should look like?
[18:08:30] <pcw_home> the PID has no need for those signals it just needs command,feeback and output connected
[18:09:20] <pcw_home> command comes from EMC, feedback and output go to driver --> hardware
[18:09:42] <Gromits> are you saying I don't need the entire Axis Y2 config section at all?
[18:10:03] <Gromits> not stepgen.03. no pid.3...?
[18:10:06] <Gromits> not==no
[18:11:22] <Gromits> sorry to be dense, I am just fundamentally missing something here.
[18:11:25] <pcw_home> You need the PID but they are independent HAL components all they need from on high is the commanded position
[18:11:27] <pcw_home> then encoder (hardware) and steprate (hardware)
[18:15:02] -!- servos4ever [servos4ever!~chatzilla@74-47-246-73.dr01.hnvr.mi.frontiernet.net] has joined #emc
[18:18:02] <Gromits> I still need an AXIS_3 config in the INI file to set parameters for the stepgen.03 and everything, yes? Does AXIS_3 stepgen exist if I only have X Y Z?
[18:18:07] <Loetmichel> re @ home
[18:22:06] <pcw_home> I dont know if its the best way but I would be tempted to make this a 3 axis machine for simplicity and totally hide the gantry nature from EMC
[18:22:08] <pcw_home> the number of stepgens and encoders you have depends on how many you have in hardware and in the config line
[18:22:36] <pcw_home> (*axis3* is gone)
[18:22:49] <Gromits> ok, I am trying to remove axis.3 from the config....
[18:23:21] <Gromits> yet still feed the y2 encdoer to the y2 pid, etc ,etc
[18:24:41] <Gromits> This one I am having a real problem with: net Y2-index-enable axis.3.index-enable <=> hm2_7i43.0.encoder.03.index-enable
[18:25:19] <Gromits> We use the index on each motor to remove racking during homing. How will emc move each motor independently during homing?
[18:26:44] <pcw_home> well they cannot really be independent
[18:28:34] <pcw_home> Did gantry homing on index work before with 2 indexes?
[18:28:36] <pcw_home> I thought that was still an unsolved gantry problem
[18:28:54] <Gromits> Yes
[18:29:14] <Gromits> We measured the offset of the encoder pulse locations, and put that in the offset.
[18:29:22] <Gromits> worked great
[18:30:02] <Gromits> i am going to ignore homing at the moment. I just wnat to get a 3-axis machine moving two motors together...
[18:30:18] <Gromits> so far no luckk
[18:30:21] <pcw_home> OK you fixed it yourself, no reason this shouldn't work with 3 axis
[18:30:37] <Gromits> easy for you to say ;-)
[18:31:10] <pcw_home> (the offset may be inserted somwhere else but same logic)
[18:31:51] <Gromits> I removed the axis.3 stuff but now y2 motor doesn't move at all
[18:32:05] <Gromits> I have: net Y2.pos-fb hm2_7i43.0.encoder.03.position => pid.3.feedback
[18:32:19] <Gromits> to feed y2 motor encoder to pid
[18:32:35] <Gromits> I have; net Y.pos-cmd axis.1.motor-pos-cmd => pid.3.command
[18:32:53] -!- CmdrData_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
[18:33:06] <Gromits> to feed the ONE position command to pid3 (as well as pid1)
[18:33:18] <pcw_home> right
[18:33:22] <Gromits> I have net Y2.enable hm2_7i43.0.stepgen.03.enable => pid.3.enable
[18:33:28] <Gromits> to enable stepgen and pid
[18:33:49] <Gromits> and I have net Y2.pos-out pid.3.output => hm2_7i43.0.stepgen.03.velocity-cmd
[18:34:13] <Gromits> to feed the pid output to the stepgen vel command
[18:34:18] <Gromits> Yet y2 doesn't move
[18:35:07] -!- psha [psha!~psha@] has joined #emc
[18:35:10] <pcw_home> sounds right (and Y1 should be identical other than different PID, encoder and stepgen)
[18:35:28] <Gromits> correct
[18:35:37] <Gromits> they are called pid.1 and stepgen.01, etc
[18:35:50] <pcw_home> why are the enable s different?
[18:36:26] <pcw_home> probably need to halmeter a few pins/signals
[18:37:05] <Gromits> because they were before.
[18:37:19] <Gromits> Perhaps I should: net Y.enable axis.1.amp-enable-out => hm2_7i43.0.stepgen.03.enable => pid.3.enable
[18:38:58] <Gromits> nope, that doesn't work, I can get Axis out of estop...
[18:39:04] <Gromits> can==can't
[18:41:42] -!- Kirk_Wallace [Kirk_Wallace!~Kirk_Wall@smb-128.sonnet.com] has joined #emc
[18:45:01] <Gromits> Got it. There must be a bug (or feature), I needed to have one line not two. That is....
[18:45:47] <Gromits> This didn't work: net Y.pos-cmd axis.1.motor-pos-cmd => pid.1.command
[18:46:02] <Gromits> net Y.pos-cmd axis.1.motor-pos-cmd => pid.3.command
[18:46:20] <Gromits> But this did work: net Y.pos-cmd axis.1.motor-pos-cmd => pid.1.command pid.3.command
[18:46:39] <Gromits> I didn't get an error, it just didn't work.
[18:47:15] <Gromits> Thanks. I think I can now wrap my head around not having to have a 4th axis defined!
[18:48:23] <Gromits> Homing will be yet another new thing to address, but that's the way it goes....
[18:49:04] <Gromits> Perhaps one day the World/Joint mode problems will be worked out and we can go back to that for more granular control.
[18:49:09] <Kirk_Wallace> Sorry for being off topic, but I would like to get a link or nudge in the right direction on fixing a Windows XP PC that won't boot. I haven't done anything with Windows for years, so I am pretty clueless on how to fix this. I suspect that a recovery disk would work to rebuild the system files, but I don't have the disks that loaded the original XP. If I need to purchase WIndows again, that is fine but I need to restore the original XP and not "up
[18:49:11] <Kirk_Wallace> grade" to something newer. If anyone can help, I suppose we can talk on another channel?
[18:50:33] <jthornton> yea, I doubt you can find XP for sale anywhere
[18:50:51] <FinboySlick> Are emc2 O-codes standard? I'm having trouble finding an editor/interpreter (besides EMC itself) that understands loops.
[18:51:39] <jthornton> standard to EMC yes
[18:51:40] -!- OpenSpace has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
[18:51:51] <FinboySlick> Kirk_Wallace: Where does it hang?
[18:52:24] <FinboySlick> jthornton: And only emc? Or are they based off some other standard?
[18:53:25] <jthornton> I don't think it is based off of any other machine controls
[18:53:47] <jthornton> the original was based off of RS247NGC iirc
[18:54:04] <FinboySlick> jthornton: OK.
[18:54:35] <Kirk_Wallace> I get the the screen that says something like WIndows could not boot, choose and alternate boot such as Safe mode. When I choose an option the PC hangs. Safe mode. displays some system files then hangs.
[18:55:51] <FinboySlick> Kirk_Wallace: Sounds pretty borked... Do you have the windows serial number that came with the box?
[18:57:14] -!- IchGucksLive [IchGucksLive!~chatzilla@95-89-244-199-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #emc
[18:57:21] <IchGucksLive> hi all over the world
[18:57:49] <IchGucksLive> Tim James ?
[18:58:18] <FinboySlick> IchGucksLive: I prefer Tom Jones ;)
[18:58:19] <Kirk_Wallace> The PC was built by a local tech and came with no dicks and such. The disk is an SSD with a USB port and I seem to be able to read the files with my Linux box.
[18:58:36] <IchGucksLive> FinboySlick: agree
[18:59:43] <IchGucksLive> if he is arround pleas querry me
[19:00:02] <FinboySlick> IchGucksLive: It would be quite cool if Tom Jones was an EMC user ;)
[19:00:24] <Kirk_Wallace> I wonder if I could get an off lease box from Geeks.com with XP and move the user files over. If so, how could to create recovery disk?
[19:00:38] -!- ve7it [ve7it!~LawrenceG@S0106001c10b7770f.pk.shawcable.net] has joined #emc
[19:00:55] <IchGucksLive> FinboySlick: im shoure he uses the Mach3 for some reason
[19:01:47] <IchGucksLive> Kirk_Wallace: why dident you shoot a 2nd it stroe PC
[19:02:12] <FinboySlick> Kirk_Wallace: I was sort of assuming the box you have had some sort of OEM version of windows. As such, you could have reinstalled if you found a disk that matches and the serial.
[19:02:26] <IchGucksLive> there are somany stores with proofen hardware for less money
[19:05:24] <Gromits> pcw_home, awallin, et al, thanks for your patience and help. Seems to be working fairly well.
[19:06:15] <IchGucksLive> Gromits: thats why we are all here
[19:06:16] <Gromits> happy holidays to all and to all a good [whatever time it is]...
[19:06:47] <Gromits> To test your patience? :-)
[19:07:03] -!- psha has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
[19:08:21] <pcw_home> No problem, them Muntz-it solution flys again
[19:08:47] -!- psha [psha!~psha@] has joined #emc
[19:11:10] -!- jt-plasma [jt-plasma!~chatzilla@216-41-156-59.semo.net] has joined #emc
[19:15:40] -!- OpenSpace [OpenSpace!~ja@178-223-233-182.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #emc
[19:18:19] <pcw_home> Gromits: You probably do want something to monitor PID error on the slave axis (since its unchecked now)
[19:18:42] -!- Tom_itx has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
[19:19:10] -!- zlog has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
[19:19:13] <IchGucksLive> question can a parport monitor 2 Steppers ?
[19:19:15] -!- jt-plasma has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 3.6.17/20110422072923]]
[19:19:49] <IchGucksLive> if i make a circulplate with 400 holes and a index
[19:20:15] <IchGucksLive> is there maybe ready to use howrdware for this
[19:20:30] <IchGucksLive> hardware
[19:21:11] <Gromits> pcw_home: are you talking custom code to watch it and throw up a message or somethings?
[19:22:10] -!- zlog [zlog!~zlog@ip68-102-110-116.ks.ok.cox.net] has joined #emc
[19:24:57] <Gromits> have to go, will look back in archive later to see if you commented. thanks again.
[19:25:03] -!- Gromits has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 3.6.24/20111107173218]]
[19:25:46] -!- IchGucksLive has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 8.0/20111115192257]]
[19:40:16] -!- anonimasu [anonimasu!~an0n@] has joined #emc
[19:54:24] <mrsun> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PzPfzLeDa0&feature=g-vrec&context=G2349e98RVAAAAAAAABg stuuupid people
[19:54:29] <mrsun> darwin awards next
[19:54:56] <mrsun> and on low speed (high gear ratio ...) so frekkin stupid i could kill him for just being stupid
[19:56:07] <syyl> he will sort him self out of the genetic pool sooner or later...
[19:56:14] <anonimasu> anyone got a clue where to connect the braking resistors on the 8i20 ?
[19:56:29] <syyl> he should try again with high speed (2000rpm+), might be interesting too
[19:57:12] <anonimasu> ont he brake res+ and res- ?
[19:57:26] <mrsun> syyl, yeah but the lathe wont be as strong =)
[19:57:44] <mrsun> tho im sure its plenty strong enough but at that low speed it could pull a freakin train :P
[19:57:52] <syyl> :)
[19:58:02] <syyl> at high speed the blood spatters farther...
[19:58:13] <syyl> (there will be blood."
[19:58:17] <syyl> )
[19:58:34] -!- andypugh [andypugh!~andy2@cpc2-basl1-0-0-cust492.basl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #emc
[19:59:12] <FinboySlick> videos like that just make me feel sad for the world
[20:02:55] <mrsun> luckily we got darwin and he will take them away =)
[20:06:19] <anonimasu> PCW: my machine at work somtimes locks up and the 7i20 keeps sending pulses out despite the machine being deadlocked anything i can do to make sure it dosent happen?
[20:06:54] <PCW> 7I20?
[20:07:09] <andypugh> The 7i20 ought to die on watchdog timeout
[20:07:55] <andypugh> And, err, what is a 7i20?
[20:08:52] -!- mhaberler [mhaberler!~mhaberler@] has joined #emc
[20:10:01] <anonimasu> err the 2.2kw servo amp..
[20:10:30] <anonimasu> but that's not what makes this(im just worried about that on the lathe)
[20:11:00] <anonimasu> 7i43 on the oxyfuel machine
[20:11:42] -!- mhaberler has quit [Client Quit]
[20:12:21] <PCW> Not exactly sure what you are asking, if EMC stops the 8I20 will get a watchdog fault and turn of all drive current
[20:12:39] <anonimasu> maybe my watchdog is off..(i have no idea now)
[20:12:57] <PCW> I doubt it
[20:13:03] <anonimasu> seems like userspace locks up and the realtime part keeps sending pulse..
[20:13:13] <anonimasu> but im running a pretty old emc on that one
[20:14:01] <anonimasu> PCW: this is for the mpl-b420p-mk22aa servos(the ones with abs encoders)
[20:14:03] <PCW> Does the HAL setup have FERROR and normal servo fault logic?
[20:14:28] <anonimasu> it's a stepper system(that locks up I've yet to move the lathe with servos just finished the motor mounts)
[20:16:22] <PCW> Do you have the watchdog enabled on the 7I43? If not, it would keep generating steps even if realtime is crashed
[20:16:35] <anonimasu> if it's not on by default that's the problem
[20:16:50] <PCW> (at the last programmed velocity)
[20:17:03] <anonimasu> tho, i cant check it from here i'll do that tomorrow
[20:18:00] -!- psha has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
[20:18:16] -!- servos4ever has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.85 [SeaMonkey 2.0.11/20101206162726]]
[20:18:57] <PCW> I would verify that the watchdog is on
[20:18:59] <PCW> If realtime is still running and userland is crashed basically this should be fixed by upgrading hardware/EMC
[20:19:00] <PCW> but I guess you could cobble together a userland health check HAL comp
[20:19:13] -!- JT-Shop [JT-Shop!~chatzilla@216-41-156-59.semo.net] has joined #emc
[20:20:00] <JT-Shop> is there a simple way to drive a stepper slowly to stir a pot of candy?
[20:21:20] -!- AndChat- has quit [Quit: Bye]
[20:21:34] -!- GoSebGo [GoSebGo!~Seb@184-229-165-133.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #emc
[20:23:17] <PCW> 60Hz transformer/capacitor?
[20:23:17] <andypugh> JT-Shop: So simple there is no PC involved?
[20:23:35] <JT-Shop> yea like a arduino maybe
[20:24:06] <JT-Shop> and some way to switch the coils on and off
[20:24:13] <PCW> with an existing driver?
[20:24:33] <PCW> Arduino and 4 MOSFETS
[20:24:41] <JT-Shop> just a stepper and yes that
[20:24:46] <andypugh> Do you have a driver? If so, then a 555 square-wave oscillator on the step pin.
[20:25:05] <JT-Shop> no driver
[20:25:23] <PCW> unipolar motor?
[20:25:26] <andypugh> arduino and ULN2008 will work for a small stepper motor and unipolar operation.
[20:25:45] <JT-Shop> cool, thanks Andy
[20:26:08] <andypugh> Mosfets and a quadrature encoder wheel mounted on a dog-powered treadmill.
[20:26:44] <JT-Shop> but, he doesn't have a dog
[20:27:02] <andypugh> Darn! And a cat would get bored.
[20:27:09] <JT-Shop> and dog treats would be more expensive than a drive
[20:28:43] <andypugh> I think I would use the 555 and a normal stepper drive, maybe even the famous TB6540(?)
[20:29:37] <andypugh> In fact, my first cheap eBay board had a 555 oscillator circuit on the board, so could run steppers self-contained.
[20:30:48] <JT-Shop> can you vary the speed of the 555 with a pot?
[20:30:57] <andypugh> (I meant ULN2003 earlier, by the way)
[20:31:02] <andypugh> Yes
[20:31:18] <JT-Shop> no wonder i could not find it
[20:33:26] <JT-Shop> like this maybe http://www.sparkfun.com/products/10267
[20:33:52] <andypugh> This one contains a 555 and would drive 4 pots.. http://www.ebay.com/itm/CNC-4-Axis-Stepper-Motor-Drive-Board-TA8435H-Controller-/330528895755
[20:34:31] <JT-Shop> he only needs the one and a G251 is that price :)
[20:35:55] <andypugh> Maybe the sparkfun one, plus a 555.
[20:36:11] <JT-Shop> that's what I was thinking
[20:36:20] <JT-Shop> and direction won't matter either
[20:36:26] <andypugh> Though as you need to make the oscillator, it might be easiest to build from scratch on proto-board
[20:38:06] -!- mhaberler [mhaberler!~mhaberler@] has joined #emc
[20:38:30] <PCW> Andy thanks for pushing the mesa_autoconf fix
[20:51:42] -!- e-ndy has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
[20:58:30] -!- Kirk_Wallace [Kirk_Wallace!~Kirk_Wall@smb-128.sonnet.com] has parted #emc
[20:59:38] <JT-Shop> I need to get some 555's they look like fun
[21:00:25] -!- vezza [vezza!~andrea__@] has joined #emc
[21:05:44] <PCW> Got to be one of the most popular analog chips of all time
[21:14:50] -!- Tom_itx [Tom_itx!~Tl@unaffiliated/toml/x-013812] has joined #emc
[21:15:13] -!- vezza has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
[21:18:48] <andypugh> PCW: Does it work for you?
[21:19:27] <PCW> I just pulled it, testing now
[21:31:30] <andypugh> I found the problem with my PC. There was a broken wire on the flexi-riser. I fixed it, then another lot, then some more broke on fitting, and I fixed them, then some more broke. I am going to give up.
[21:31:40] <Jymmm> !!! MERRY CHRISTMAS !!!
[21:31:54] <Jymmm> andypugh: on your imac?
[21:32:17] <andypugh> No, this is the EMC2 machine.
[21:32:25] <Jymmm> ah
[21:32:36] <Jymmm> sounds like it's time for a new machine
[21:33:01] <andypugh> Jymmm: I am still building it!
[21:33:12] <Jymmm> andypugh: Gotcha
[21:34:17] <andypugh> I had an eBay accident. I bought a printer. It arrived today. It looked smaller in the advert: https://picasaweb.google.com/108164504656404380542/Gibbs#5688958765847918498
[21:35:00] <JT-Shop> wow! that is a big one
[21:35:00] <Jymmm> wth kind of printer? Looks more like a lino hell (tm)
[21:35:17] <Jymmm> which is a typsetting machine.
[21:35:29] <Jymmm> and in the rain no less it looks
[21:35:44] <andypugh> It's an A3 laser, but with a 2400 sheet feeder that wasn't mentioned in the ad.
[21:35:50] <andypugh> (next picture)
[21:36:16] <syyl> i would keep it
[21:36:21] <syyl> could be handy one day ;)
[21:37:04] <andypugh> It has Ethernet, so it can be huge anywhere in the house. It was a struggle to get it upstairs by myself though.
[21:38:02] <andypugh> (the manual says 68kg for the top section, that's 150lbs.)
[21:39:41] <andypugh> I have tried printing an encoder with it, I could do with seeing if it works.
[21:39:47] <andypugh> (for that)
[21:40:14] <andypugh> I have it running, print quality is nice (as you would expect from a $5000 printer).
[21:40:47] <andypugh> It says "Tektronix" on it, so seems at home in the project room.
[21:42:02] <PCW> Latest pull of 2.5 fixes the bit type output >30 bug
[21:42:22] <andypugh> It should also work properly with no modparam.
[21:43:05] <PCW> OK let me try
[21:43:06] <PCW> Still has trouble reading the firmware rev
[21:45:28] <PCW> Yes works as expected now with no modparam
[21:45:45] <andypugh> Is the firmware rev a problem?
[21:46:23] <PCW> Its reading the 0xAA (= 170 dec) cold startup flag
[21:50:33] <andypugh> A bit tricky for me to work on at the moment.
[21:51:22] <anonimasu> PCW: is it insane to put a DIN block on the motor wires?
[21:51:27] <anonimasu> to make wiring easier?
[21:51:35] <PCW> No biggee
[21:51:40] <anonimasu> perfect!
[21:51:58] <PCW> that was for Andy...
[21:52:07] <anonimasu> ah.
[21:52:19] <andypugh> DIN block?
[21:52:28] <anonimasu> one second
[21:53:12] <anonimasu> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/00/Din_rail.jpg/250px-Din_rail.jpg
[21:53:14] <andypugh> I think I might know what you mean, actually.
[21:53:16] <anonimasu> like the connecting blocks
[21:53:30] <andypugh> My steppers all run through them.
[21:53:37] <PCW> DIN block is fine just make sure connections are secure (all live disconnect will likely kill the 8I20)
[21:53:38] <anonimasu> for servos and the 8i20
[21:54:22] <anonimasu> perfect!
[21:54:35] <andypugh> As long as they have the current rating, it should be fine.
[21:55:01] <andypugh> It's pretty much what they are for, really.
[21:55:04] <PCW> Who needs a rev now that our firmware is perfect :-)
[21:55:48] <andypugh> :-)
[21:56:00] <PCW> and will only get perfecter
[21:56:02] <andypugh> Call it rev +Inf then
[21:59:35] -!- FinboySlick has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
[22:02:28] <PCW> We're only up to rev. 31 Seems uProc code has a lot bigger error space than the hardware
[22:02:29] <PCW> though it may be that its just too easy to add features which cause you to quickly run out of
[22:02:31] <PCW> space with hardware but seem cheap if its just more code space
[22:03:17] <PCW> (I think biggest HM2 firmware rev is 3 )
[22:09:31] -!- vezza [vezza!~andrea__@host62-40-dynamic.16-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #emc
[22:09:49] -!- vezza has quit [Client Quit]
[22:12:05] -!- toastydeath [toastydeath!~toast@c-69-140-223-139.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #emc
[22:27:56] -!- elmo40 has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
[22:30:46] -!- maximilian_h [maximilian_h!~bonsai@] has parted #emc
[22:32:10] -!- hm2-buildmaster has quit [Quit: buildmaster reconfigured: bot disconnecting]
[22:33:28] -!- hm2-buildmaster has quit [Client Quit]
[22:35:43] -!- Mjolinor has quit [Quit: Leaving]
[22:38:27] -!- jrshaul [jrshaul!~joseph@] has joined #emc
[22:38:44] <jrshaul> Does anyone know where I can get a 1.7mm hex shaft? I have to fix something stupid.
[22:40:27] -!- hm2-buildmaster has quit [Quit: buildmaster reconfigured: bot disconnecting]
[22:42:21] -!- skunkKandT [skunkKandT!~chatzilla@184-158-20-19.dyn.centurytel.net] has joined #emc
[22:44:19] <JT-Shop> what part of the world are you in?
[22:44:34] -!- hm2-buildmaster has quit [Client Quit]
[22:48:55] -!- mhaberler has quit [Quit: mhaberler]
[22:50:36] -!- mhaberler [mhaberler!~mhaberler@] has joined #emc
[22:53:08] -!- hm2-buildmaster has quit [Quit: buildmaster reconfigured: bot disconnecting]
[22:53:10] <andypugh> 1.7 seems especially teeny.
[22:54:59] -!- hm2-buildmaster has quit [Client Quit]
[22:55:29] <jrshaul> It's to fix something that the original manufacturer insists is a non-serviceable part. It isn't.
[22:56:17] <jrshaul> I'm in the USA - I don't think Grainger carries it, though I might try filing down a 2mm allen wrench.
[22:56:56] <Jymmm> andypugh: Looks like you can install A3, Legal, and Tabloif (11x17) in it too
[22:57:01] <Jymmm> tabloid
[22:57:10] -!- acemi has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2]
[22:57:47] <skunkKandT> andy.. have you read this? http://www.cnczone.com/forums/emc_linux_enhanced_machine_control/143314-differential_encoder_signal_w_parallel.html
[22:58:11] <Tom_itx> jrshaul, got a hobby store nearby? they have steel rods that may be close enough you can sand down to size
[22:58:15] -!- tlab [tlab!~tlab@c-98-223-22-156.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #emc
[22:58:35] <Tom_itx> probably .065" shaft which is pretty close
[22:58:48] <jrshaul> Hex sized?
[22:58:57] <Tom_itx> you need hex?
[22:59:04] <Tom_itx> or round
[22:59:13] <Tom_itx> ahh sry
[22:59:52] <jrshaul> It's actually for a model airplane transmitter - the original manufacturer wants me to send it in over a ten-cent piece of plastic. It's not even worth repairing.
[23:01:05] <jdhNC> I don't suppose EK Logictrol still makes radios?
[23:03:29] <Tom_itx> http://www.victornet.com/tools/Metric-Hex-Keys/135.html
[23:03:31] <Tom_itx> 1.5mm
[23:03:34] <Tom_itx> not 1.7
[23:06:17] <Tom_itx> one for a 2-56 grub screw would be pretty close
[23:07:16] <PCW> skunkKandT: I know first hand the BLDC comp works (spun a motor for a week or so with it)
[23:07:18] <PCW> not trivial to setup however since you need to get 3 or so parameters right or no go
[23:08:18] <skunkKandT> pcw: sure... I think he is blaming emc for something that isn't emc's fault
[23:08:53] -!- Eartaker [Eartaker!~Eartaker@2002:43b9:4c64:0:6d02:e54:5f7a:d46b] has joined #emc
[23:08:53] -!- Eartaker has quit [Changing host]
[23:08:53] -!- Eartaker [Eartaker!~Eartaker@unaffiliated/eartaker] has joined #emc
[23:09:06] <Jymmm> skunkKandT: i do that all the time
[23:10:47] <PCW> its tricky enough to do this with the right hardware, with a parallel port doing 3 phase PWM and counting ended encoder signals
[23:10:49] <PCW> his test setup should be about as stable as a pig on stilts :-)
[23:11:00] <PCW> single ended
[23:18:40] -!- syyl has quit [Quit: Leaving]
[23:18:59] -!- jrshaul has quit [Quit: jrshaul]
[23:21:38] -!- Turtl3boi has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
[23:28:48] -!- hm2-buildmaster has quit [Quit: buildmaster reconfigured: bot disconnecting]
[23:29:59] <andypugh> We are in pretty much constant email contact.
[23:30:38] <PCW> what is driving the motor?
[23:32:38] <skunkKandT> andypugh: you are a saint
[23:33:30] <PCW> Or has the patience of one
[23:34:35] <andypugh> The current configuration he is trying to make work is an AMT (hall-sensor input drive) and a Fanuc motor on which he is only using the incremental encoder. What he is trying to make work is the bldc.comp conversion of encoder counts to synthetic hall signals.
[23:34:56] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/zip/2765788841.html
[23:35:11] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx: cool
[23:35:11] <andypugh> It ought to work, though it is a bit of an extreme test.
[23:35:57] <PCW> yeah thats a lot of things to get right before it will spin
[23:36:26] <PCW> the AMT is analog input?
[23:37:03] <skunkKandT> I though it was an amc drive.. +/-10v input
[23:37:15] <PCW> Oh OK
[23:37:36] <andypugh> Sorry, it is AMC,
[23:37:58] <andypugh> With analogue input for speed, and hall signals for commutation.
[23:38:13] <PCW> This is one of those funny 4 bit Fanuc absolute encoder things?
[23:38:40] <andypugh> Using the fanuc conversion in bldc.comp works OK, actually.
[23:39:16] <andypugh> But he has motors with a different encoder (absolute, proprietary) that he wants to get working.
[23:39:52] <skunkKandT> some of the questions he is asking makes me think he has to learn a lot more. (like when he thought the open loop setup he had for testing should fight him when turning the shaft)
[23:40:06] -!- Calyp has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
[23:40:26] <PCW> non standard absolute (SSI BISS Heidenhaine)
[23:40:39] <skunkKandT> and if emc has a setting to 'read' differential encoders...
[23:40:43] <PCW> i mean not
[23:41:09] <skunkKandT> (I of course have not asked any questions like that...)
[23:41:20] <PCW> Well its possible with 2 inputs and lots over oversampling
[23:41:40] <PCW> lots of oversampling
[23:41:44] <skunkKandT> heh
[23:42:05] <skunkKandT> he replied http://www.cnczone.com/forums/emc_linux_enhanced_machine_control/143314-differential_encoder_signal_w_parallel.html
[23:42:09] -!- mhaberler has quit [Quit: mhaberler]
[23:44:56] <PCW> maybe theres a discrepancy between the drives HALL 0 and the magnetic 0 I sure would not expect that combo to be easy to get right
[23:46:50] -!- Calyp [Calyp!~Caly@unaffiliated/calyptratus-tzm] has joined #emc
[23:48:36] -!- hm2-buildmaster has quit [Quit: buildmaster reconfigured: bot disconnecting]
[23:50:05] -!- Jymmm has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
[23:55:30] -!- mozmck has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
[23:58:01] <andypugh> I like the guy, he is coming at the whole thing his own way, and he has some really interesting ideas. Bear in mind that he is _expecting_ this to be a several-years project. He wants to make something incredibly rigid and accurate using hydrodynamic bearings.
[23:58:18] <skunkKandT> Cool
[23:59:15] <andypugh> He has already measured the index-to-zero offset, and one of the 47 hall patterns ought to have Hall0 at magenetic zero (assuming nothing odd is happening in the drive...)
[23:59:52] <PCW> right (has he tried them all)