#emc | Logs for 2011-12-17

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[00:00:36] <andypugh> (ponder... I have been invited to a party in Burnley on the 28th)
[00:00:49] * Mjolinor leaves
[00:01:03] * Mjolinor goes to parts foreign till said party is over
[00:01:22] <Mjolinor> :)
[00:01:37] <Mjolinor> I too am going to a party in burnley on the 28th :)
[00:02:13] <Mjolinor> that just happens to be at hte house where the lathe is
[00:02:30] <andypugh> But I guess not that birthday party of an 8-year-old?
[00:02:35] <Mjolinor> no
[00:03:01] <elmo40> andypugh: do i need a special card to read the output from the encoder? or can i add it to a partport for EMC to read directly?
[00:03:24] <andypugh> Depends on the pulse rate, but it is plausible to do it with a parport.
[00:03:44] <jthornton> up to ... what Andy said
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[00:04:20] <Mjolinor> where is the base thread specified?
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[00:04:31] <andypugh> As an aside, I am enjoying reading this tale of engineering woe: http://www.ixion.org.uk/digest/0.29669100%201323453002/
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[00:04:59] <andypugh> Mjolinor: It's related to the latency
[00:05:18] <Mjolinor> ok
[00:05:27] <andypugh> (that is an account by a friend of mine of a cataogue of errors around a ship engine repair)
[00:05:38] <Mjolinor> so it is set by default and oyu need to run the test to get your own number for the computer you are suing it on?
[00:05:53] <Mjolinor> it is 15000 as a fixed default value in stepconf?
[00:06:04] <Mjolinor> so maybe that is my problem
[00:06:08] <jthornton> there are no default values
[00:06:16] <andypugh> 15,000 is fine.
[00:06:19] <jthornton> only placeholders for you values
[00:06:30] <Mjolinor> so the value it sticks in tehre in stepconf is worked out by stepconf?
[00:06:46] <jthornton> no
[00:07:00] <jthornton> just sample values to fill the void
[00:07:14] <elmo40> it is a 1024 pulse per rev. so not all that much info.
[00:07:34] <andypugh> 15000 allows 60,000 steps per second. You need 800. We can ignore that as a source of the problem.
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[00:11:01] <Turtl3boi> Hey Loet
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[00:14:55] <elmo40> Turtl3boi: no tab-completion? ;)
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[00:57:33] <andypugh> I think this PCB will work. (It's very tiny) http://imagebin.org/188954
[00:58:08] <andypugh> 3 hall sensors and 2 opto-sensors on an arc.
[01:00:26] <skunkKandT> what are you doing? 2 optical for commution? 3 hal for encoder data?
[01:00:34] <skunkKandT> hall
[01:01:29] <andypugh> 3 halls for commutation, 2 optos for quadrature.
[01:01:50] <skunkKandT> heh
[01:02:14] <skunkKandT> i new I probably said it backwards
[01:02:23] <skunkKandT> knew
[01:02:24] <andypugh> It's a tiny PCB that goes inside the motor.
[01:04:13] <alex4nder-> hey
[01:05:39] <andypugh> I need a really compact wire-to-board solution, ideally.
[01:07:44] <syyl> removable connection
[01:07:45] <syyl> ?
[01:08:29] <jdhNC> no Z?
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[01:15:52] <jdhNC> http://www.samtec.com/idcdiscretewire/Flat_Flexible_Cable_Systems.aspx
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[01:18:59] <Tom_itx> andypugh what pcb editor did you use for that?
[01:19:17] <andypugh> DesignSpark
[01:20:54] <Tom_itx> does it allow you to do an ERC (Electrical Rule Check) that is tied to a schematic?
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[01:29:40] <andypugh> I think so, if that means what I think it means.
[01:30:04] <andypugh> It's windows-only though.
[01:30:39] <andypugh> My Eagle stopped working (asking for a license) but DesignSpark is unlimited and free.
[01:30:55] <andypugh> (that's "free" not "Free")
[01:31:23] <andypugh> Basically RS bought EasyPC out of spite after Farnell bought Eagle :-)
[01:32:46] <Tom_itx> heh
[01:32:48] <andypugh> Frankly, it's a bit painful, but they all seem to be. Eagle uses a mouse in a very different way to anything else.
[01:33:04] <Tom_itx> i've used eagle a long time
[01:33:10] <Tom_itx> i'm ok with it
[01:33:14] <Tom_itx> none are perfect
[01:33:47] <Tom_itx> for smt stuff their keepouts around the packages are too big
[01:36:05] <Tom_itx> that and i've got ~300 libs for it for parts
[01:36:49] <Tom_itx> still end up making quite a few parts though
[01:37:03] <Turtl3boi> can you give me your libs one day when i get setup
[01:37:11] <Turtl3boi> your custom ones i mean
[01:37:16] <Tom_itx> it comes with plenty
[01:37:29] <Turtl3boi> umm that's not addressing my want
[01:37:34] <Tom_itx> you will likly not use the same parts i do
[01:37:37] <Turtl3boi> i'd assume it does come with many
[01:37:44] <Turtl3boi> how do you know that
[01:38:03] <Tom_itx> because you haven't asked for a specific part yet
[01:38:34] <alex4nder-> laf
[01:38:45] <Tom_itx> i think i did a pci card slot for somebody once
[01:39:03] <Tom_itx> i don't remember what was different about it but something was
[01:43:08] <andypugh> I started with DesignSpark because I thought that it would hook straight into RS part numbers. It doesn't.
[01:43:59] <andypugh> And I am already bored of making alternative packages for back-side mounting (but, to be fair, I guess that is pretty rare really)
[01:44:12] <Tom_itx> i think farnell tied eagle into their parts
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[01:44:21] <Tom_itx> farnell is too high though
[01:44:49] <Tom_itx> you can mirror parts in eagle so you don't have to i think
[01:45:02] <Tom_itx> if we're talking about the same thing
[01:45:16] <Tom_itx> have you tried 'mirroring' ?
[01:45:37] <andypugh> It's not just mirror-ing, it's transferring to bottom copper and silkscreen.
[01:45:50] <Tom_itx> i know
[01:45:59] <Turtl3boi> hey andy why do you have to make alternative packages for back side mounting?
[01:46:05] <Tom_itx> that's what eagle mirroring does
[01:47:01] <andypugh> Turtl3boi: Possibly because I don't understand the software...
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[01:48:14] <Tom_itx> andypugh, ic2 is mirrored on the bottom here: http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/boards/atmega32u4/atmega32U4_3.jpg
[01:48:37] <Tom_itx> gawd my router sucks tonight
[01:49:36] <andypugh> DesignSpark lets you mirror, but you stay in the same layer.
[01:49:49] <ds3> anyone tried using an airbrush to spray coolant?
[01:49:50] <Tom_itx> oh
[01:49:50] <Tom_itx> not eagle
[01:50:02] <Tom_itx> that kinda sucks
[01:50:14] <ds3> ?
[01:50:17] <Tom_itx> ds3, no but it should work unles it's too thick
[01:50:31] <ds3> 'k
[01:50:34] <Tom_itx> if you want a mist system
[01:50:44] <ds3> I want a periodic system
[01:50:52] <Tom_itx> or get a mist tank
[01:50:57] <ds3> not setup for full flood so I want it spray a little bit pause and repeat
[01:50:59] <Tom_itx> they sell those too ya know
[01:51:04] <ds3> they do?
[01:51:08] <ds3> what is the name of them?
[01:51:08] * skunkKandT adjusts his coolant nozzles.
[01:51:28] <Tom_itx> google coolant mist
[01:51:31] <Tom_itx> i'll find ya one
[01:51:51] <ds3> I know about mist but those run continously and create a bad atmosphere for the people in there
[01:52:01] <Tom_itx> so put a relay on it
[01:52:12] <Tom_itx> solonoid
[01:52:15] <ds3> Hmmm
[01:52:41] <ds3> doesn't that still go everywhere? hoping an airbrush has bigger droplets
[01:52:51] <ds3> I've only used flood on some big machine
[01:53:12] <Tom_itx> i'd think the mist system would be coarser than an air brush
[01:53:15] <Tom_itx> or the same
[01:53:20] <ds3> Ohh
[01:53:22] <Tom_itx> you can adjust their output
[01:53:39] <ds3> is there such thing as an automated drip system then?
[01:53:49] <Tom_itx> make one
[01:53:59] <ds3> donno how to create a drip
[01:54:32] <ds3> all I want is something that replaces me with a syringe squirting bits of coolant every few minutes
[01:54:38] <ds3> that is getting old fast ;)
[01:55:15] <MattyMatt> put a hose over a mister. it will drip from the other end
[01:55:19] <Tom_itx> yeah
[01:55:21] <Tom_itx> good idea
[01:55:25] <ds3> Oh I see
[01:55:39] <ds3> I'll have to look into it
[01:56:03] <ds3> before i get too far, does compress air work as an alternative for coolant on alum/steel?
[01:56:07] <Tom_itx> just a short piece of tubing over the tip
[01:56:07] <Tom_itx> would make it drip
[01:56:32] <Tom_itx> add an oiler to it
[01:56:45] <Tom_itx> just don't use good hose on it
[01:56:46] <Tom_itx> :)
[01:57:01] <ds3> aquarium tubing is what I would use if I did that
[01:57:01] <Tom_itx> or expect to spray paint with it later
[01:58:19] <MattyMatt> that's OK, the spraygun is full of coolant anyway. no painting here today
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[01:58:38] <Tom_itx> i gotta reset this thing. brb
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[01:59:46] <ds3> I got a bunch of disposable airbrushes from the dollar store
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[02:06:46] <skunkKandT> If I have an reciprocating engine that turns over very easy - and I balance it so at rest.. will it be balance decently when it starts rotating faster?
[02:06:58] <skunkKandT> balanced
[02:07:03] <Tom_itx> no
[02:07:13] <Tom_itx> there's a formula for balancing an engine
[02:07:20] <Tom_itx> i forget what it is though
[02:07:41] <Tom_itx> i made some balance weights for some little 2 strokes i had way back when
[02:07:54] <skunkKandT> yah - it is like add rotating mass + 1/2 recipricating mass to the journals.. iirc
[02:08:00] <cradek> skunkKandT: there's a reason they spin-balance tires. you need what's known as dynamic balance
[02:08:03] <Tom_itx> sounds right
[02:08:47] <cradek> but don't ask me how to get it :-/
[02:08:51] <skunkKandT> heh
[02:08:56] <Tom_itx> that formula
[02:09:13] <andypugh> ds3 You can use air as coolant, but not lubricant. I would guess that the cutter would still clog.
[02:09:45] <skunkKandT> so - what I would get is a static balance...
[02:09:48] <Tom_itx> andypugh that's why i suggested adding an oiler near the end of the hose
[02:09:55] <Tom_itx> not ideal but it might do a little good
[02:09:55] <andypugh> You can static balance all but the very widest wheels.
[02:10:15] <Tom_itx> skunkKandT, yes
[02:10:24] <cradek> only because it's not critical, I bet
[02:11:29] <skunkKandT> well - it might be a starting point for me.. atleast I would have most of the offset bits balanced and then go from there.
[02:12:01] <andypugh> Actually, I am not sure that the spin-balancers even measure secondary balance, so might well be exactly equivalent to static balance.
[02:12:30] <andypugh> I suspect that the tyre shops use them because they are faster, and tell you how much you need.
[02:13:11] <Tom_itx> skunkKandT, http://www.carcraft.com/howto/ccrp_0803_engine_balancing/index.html
[02:13:29] <cradek> andypugh: interesting point - I have no idea what they actually measure.
[02:13:40] <Tom_itx> 2 strokes are different iirc too
[02:13:50] <skunkKandT> Tom_itx: Thanks. (I think I came across that recently)
[02:15:08] <Tom_itx> http://www.rpmrons.com/Balance.html
[02:15:24] <Tom_itx> To balance a V-8 engine requires 50% of reciprocating weight plus 100% of rotating weight, for a V-8 engine
[02:16:26] <skunkKandT> and the connecting rod is considered 1/2 rotating and 1/2 reciprocating
[02:16:28] <A2Sheds> With M63 (turn off digital output synced with motion) whats the best way to have it activate after some motion has completed?
[02:17:36] <Tom_itx> skunkKandT, con rod big end is
[02:17:45] <Tom_itx> weigh both ends
[02:17:53] <skunkKandT> rigth
[02:17:55] <skunkKandT> right
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[02:18:57] <A2Sheds> Can you issue a G0 or G1 with no change in position?
[02:19:05] <Tom_itx> i don't think so
[02:19:37] <Tom_itx> you could try the current position to try and trick it... see what happens
[02:20:48] <A2Sheds> i want to have an enable output signal go low when the machine is moving and turn off the output when it reaches the end of motion
[02:21:25] <Tom_itx> distance to go?
[02:22:29] <A2Sheds> say I want to trigger a camera or light to only go ON when there is motion
[02:22:29] <skunkKandT> A2Sheds: there is a in position hal bit
[02:23:57] <A2Sheds> "The actual change of the specified outputs will happen at the beginning of the next motion command. If there is no subsequent motion command, the queued output changes won't happen. It's best to always program a motion g-code (G0, G1, etc) right after the M62/63."
[02:24:03] <andypugh> The engine I play with has one piston 1lb lighter than the others.
[02:24:26] <andypugh> But it's been like that 95 years.
[02:24:54] <A2Sheds> I guess I could program a short back and forth movement at the end of travel
[02:26:02] <andypugh> A2Sheds: Sum all the axis velocities in HAL?
[02:36:15] <Tom_itx> it doesn't have a 'distance to go' value for each axis?
[02:39:24] <A2Sheds> still getting up to speed on HAL
[02:39:41] <Tom_itx> well me too, that's why i asked
[02:39:59] <A2Sheds> there's more than one way to do this
[02:40:30] <Tom_itx> good thing about emc huh?
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[03:20:40] <Turtl3boi> Loet?
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[03:27:21] <andypugh> Turtl3boi: It's 0427 in DE, I doubt he is listening.
[03:27:36] <pcw_home> andypugh if the 7I39 squeels, it means you have hit its current limit
[03:27:55] <andypugh> pcw_home: I was just typing that question
[03:28:15] <andypugh> Thing is, it happens at a current of 40%
[03:28:36] <A2Sheds> pcw_home: are the parallel termination resistors on the 7i33 encoder inputs resistor packs or discrete smt?
[03:28:36] <andypugh> And it is the motor that squeals, not the drive.
[03:28:43] <pcw_home> to find the motors voltage, spin it and measure the back EMF
[03:29:05] <pcw_home> Individual resistors
[03:29:30] <pcw_home> Yeah the motor will squeal
[03:29:37] <A2Sheds> ah, I have to drive it with a 20ma max source
[03:30:26] <andypugh> It's not an easy motor to spin, but I can try. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEI6TBwydqs&list=UUexvgsGz_QFvOublovDYoTQ&index=1&feature=plcp
[03:30:32] <pcw_home> 10 mA is fine (thats 2.6V diff)
[03:31:08] <andypugh> It's running a lot better now it has Hall sensors though.
[03:31:11] <A2Sheds> pcw_home: my diff is set at ~3.3
[03:31:42] <pcw_home> Andy its tough to measure motor current without a hall sensor
[03:31:48] <A2Sheds> 3.3/130 = 25ma
[03:32:37] <pcw_home> oh, you are feeding this through to a single ended device?
[03:33:37] <pcw_home> differential receivers are usually 200 mV sensitivity or so
[03:33:43] <A2Sheds> yes, I have no choice unless i add a buffer/driver
[03:34:19] <pcw_home> Well you could tap the FPGA cable
[03:34:47] <andypugh> Anyway, I will get back to this tomorrow
[03:34:49] <andypugh> Night all
[03:35:12] <A2Sheds> am26ls31 line driver is 20ma max
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[03:36:25] <pcw_home> which is 2.64V diff into 132 Ohms = fine for diff
[03:36:52] <A2Sheds> it's measuring at 3.3V diff
[03:37:14] <pcw_home> If you dont want to add a buffer, just use the flat cable signal
[03:37:50] <A2Sheds> it's actually an ASIC with equivalent to am26ls31 outputs
[03:38:07] <A2Sheds> or change the resistors :)
[03:38:42] <pcw_home> Which screws up the termination...
[03:39:10] <A2Sheds> changes the impedance, but the line length is only ~12in
[03:39:17] <pcw_home> For short cables and low count rates you can do that
[03:39:49] <pcw_home> but is in the M^2 zone
[03:39:54] <A2Sheds> encoder speed is ~40khz max
[03:40:14] <A2Sheds> but it's the edges
[03:41:31] <pcw_home> well the encoder filter (if on) will not see anything shorter than 300 nS anyway
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[03:42:10] <A2Sheds> ah, no problem then
[03:42:17] <pcw_home> but if its only 12 inches why not just use single ended
[03:43:23] <A2Sheds> no termination with single ended?
[03:43:31] <A2Sheds> i wish there were schematics
[03:43:40] <pcw_home> Nope
[03:43:45] <A2Sheds> ah ok
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[03:44:57] <pcw_home> Worst case in a noisy environment you would have to increase the digital filter time constant
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[03:45:56] <A2Sheds> it's all in a PC case, the servo amps are enclosed in their own shield as well
[03:46:25] <A2Sheds> the most noise at lower freq is the AC drive lines to the motors
[03:46:35] <pcw_home> if set for 20 uSec it will still count to ~100 KHz but is virtually immune to coupled noise
[03:49:03] <A2Sheds> thanks
[03:49:35] <skunkworks_> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/testing/DSC_1826.JPG
[03:49:38] <elmo40> A2Sheds: any pics? :)
[03:49:46] <skunkworks_> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/testing/DSC_1830.JPG
[03:49:52] <skunkworks_> coolant control
[03:50:34] <A2Sheds> elmo40: no, project under NDA
[04:07:25] <pcw_home> skunkworks I guess thats better that on you or the walls
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[04:51:29] <alex4nder-> hey
[05:00:53] <jtektool> hey is for horses emc is for cnc
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[08:54:51] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Make the dual-vibration force feedback work with emc... http://www.logitech.com/gaming/controllers/devices/7361
[08:55:26] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: $20 after $7 rebate
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[09:48:11] <Mjolinor> any tutorial type pages that will give me a hot to on deciding speeds / current decay / acceleration etc etc on my stepper motors?
[09:48:23] <Mjolinor> how to
[09:48:55] <Mjolinor> it seems that one can mess for a long time trying to get smooth repeatability fast when one has no starting point
[09:49:22] <Mjolinor> and is it best to use microstepping or not, shoudl I set it up without then add it later once I have hte basic settings?
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[09:56:36] <Jymmm> Mjolinor: microstepping is good.
[09:57:16] <Jymmm> stepper velocity/acceleration is basically a calculation for the most part.
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[09:57:53] <Jymmm> you'll get ferror if settings are too high, then you can adjust down as needed.
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[09:59:47] <Jymmm> Just play with your machine... start small, then double up. When you've hit a certain point, then back off by half till you've dialed it
[09:59:49] <Jymmm> in.
[10:00:05] <Mjolinor> ok
[10:00:15] <Mjolinor> but shoudl I do it without microstep to start with
[10:00:32] <Jymmm> Also, LISTEN to your steppers, you can hear when they stall (even for a moment),
[10:00:38] <Mjolinor> will any motor work with microstepping
[10:00:39] <Jymmm> yes
[10:01:34] <Mjolinor> will a particular microstep work better than others or is it jsut a case of holding torque decreasing as I increase the microsteps
[10:01:36] <Jymmm> Well, I can't see why any stepper motor wouldn't unless you're using ones from a printer/copier or somethign like that.
[10:01:39] <mrsun> hmm, start with measuring the jitter i guess ? and type that in, that will give you a maximum stepping frequency from the configuration tool
[10:01:50] <mrsun> then start playing with the values and see what happends =)
[10:02:03] <Mjolinor> been paying with the values for like 8 hours :)
[10:02:04] <Jymmm> Mjolinor: 8 microstepping it typical
[10:02:08] <Mjolinor> and cant get repeatability
[10:02:13] <Mjolinor> ok
[10:02:20] <Mjolinor> what about the current decay
[10:02:38] <mrsun> Mjolinor, backlash etc ?
[10:02:39] <Jymmm> at idle?
[10:02:42] <Mjolinor> it dos seem smoother at 8 than any other
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[10:03:05] <Mjolinor> its all ballscrew so backlash shouldnt bea problem
[10:03:25] <Mjolinor> current decay on the microstep
[10:03:34] <Mjolinor> there are 4 options, 0 25 50 100%
[10:03:47] <Jymmm> on what?
[10:03:58] <Mjolinor> i am using a pic to drop the cur5rent to 20% if the motor isnot turning
[10:04:02] <Mjolinor> that bit is fine
[10:04:28] <Mjolinor> the current decay for the microstepping has 4 decay options
[10:04:34] <archivist> dont drop current
[10:04:35] <mrsun> hmm, as a sinewave filter can be used on a vfd to get rid of alot of the stupid things of pwm frequency make etc .. like bearing currents etc, how about sinewave filter for a stepper driver? :)
[10:04:51] <Mjolinor> why not drop the current?
[10:04:55] <Jymmm> archivist: even at idle?
[10:05:06] <archivist> with microstep you can lose position
[10:05:19] <Mjolinor> I would need hte eiffel tower bolting to it to keep it cool if I don't :)
[10:05:51] <archivist> define cool :)
[10:06:00] <Jymmm> Well, if touch the motor after 20m of idle burns your hand, turn it down a bit I guess.
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[10:06:07] <Mjolinor> not melting the aluminium on the heatsink
[10:06:13] <Mjolinor> :)
[10:06:25] <archivist> 50 deg c is ok for a motor
[10:06:39] <Mjolinor> it is over that
[10:06:45] <Mjolinor> the chip I mean , not hte motor
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[10:06:58] <archivist> is your current too high in the first place
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[10:07:08] <Mjolinor> no, it is exactly right, 3.1 amps
[10:07:26] <archivist> are wrong use of chip :)
[10:07:29] <archivist> ah
[10:07:39] <Mjolinor> but hte chip maximum is not far form that, I am using a 6560 which has a data sheet max of 3.5 peak
[10:07:43] <mrsun> my drives and i guess most drives does idle half current
[10:07:45] <Mjolinor> so I am very close to the max
[10:08:00] <archivist> add heat sink
[10:08:05] <Mjolinor> it has a heat sink
[10:08:08] <Jymmm> Mjolinor: Is that INCLUDING bemf?
[10:08:14] <mrsun> i run them at 4.2A they are rated to 4A :P
[10:08:21] <mrsun> (closest i can get to what they want)
[10:08:52] <archivist> how big is the heatsink, is there enough air to cool the heatsink
[10:08:53] <Mjolinor> on the 6560 the current is regialted by a resistor
[10:09:05] <Mjolinor> so the chip will not supply more than it is set for
[10:09:17] <Mjolinor> irrespective of load
[10:09:48] <archivist> if it is too hot withing normal use the heatsink is under size
[10:10:26] <Mjolinor> the heatsink is undersize for sure because the board isn't mouted yet, I need to get at things to scope them which I wont be able to do once the thing is mouted where it goes
[10:10:46] <Mjolinor> but as it is if it gets too hot for me to hold then to me it is too hot
[10:11:26] <Mjolinor> I think I will mess with microsteppin goff for now and continue to drop the current
[10:11:52] <archivist> you will lose steps with lower current, add heatsink
[10:12:10] <archivist> use at least half step
[10:12:34] <Mjolinor> one step is 0.01 mm without microstepping
[10:13:00] <Mjolinor> which I think is about what the machine is good for anyway
[10:13:17] <Mjolinor> so microstepping wil only give me "smooth", not increased accuracy
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[10:16:30] <archivist> half step is what I use, about best for accuracy and acceleration
[10:16:43] <Mjolinor> ok, ill use that then
[10:17:27] <archivist> at your resolution you may find the machine feels a little slow
[10:18:00] <Mjolinor> with the orignal electronics the cariiage adn cross slide are specified at 1200 mm / min
[10:18:07] <Mjolinor> but I cant get even 1/10 of that
[10:18:11] <archivist> do you have gearing between the stepper and ballscrew
[10:18:18] <Mjolinor> without the steppers losing it
[10:18:34] <Mjolinor> 12/31 on the lead screw, 1:1 on the cross slide
[10:19:02] <archivist> you probably need to slow down the acceleration
[10:19:14] <Mjolinor> 5mm / rev lead screw and 2.5 mm /rev on the cross slide
[10:19:35] <Mjolinor> i have the acceleration SLOW, < 5mm /s^2
[10:19:49] <archivist> and normal 200 step per rev steppers?
[10:19:53] <Mjolinor> yup
[10:19:57] <Mjolinor> nema 34
[10:20:00] <Mjolinor> 3.1 amps
[10:20:31] <mrsun> hmm, i guess that half stepping would do for me also.. i have 1/16 step now for some reason
[10:20:40] <mrsun> 0.005mm/step should do just fine :P
[10:20:55] <mrsun> but doesnt half step vibrate more ?
[10:21:00] <Mjolinor> yes
[10:21:12] <Mjolinor> well, its not a vibrate, it jerky
[10:22:34] <archivist> best to add heatsink so it is at max current as long as possible
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[10:48:46] <awallin> was there a priority-encoder comp for HAL? i.e. one of many input bits is true and that is encoded into a binary number output with a few output bits?
[10:48:56] <elmo40> if it is jerky then something is binding. have you slid the axis by hand before you connected the motors&screws?
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[12:03:06] <jthornton> Mjolinor: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Stepper_Formulas
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[15:05:41] <Mjolinor> OK, I have been a checked all my numbers for pitch of leda screw and teeth of pulleys and all the settings and for sure the RUN button in stepconf produces a distance that is 1/4 of the distance it is supposed to.
[15:06:10] <Mjolinor> soit occurs to me that maybe when I went from an 8 wire to a 4 wire motor I hve the polarity of some of the coils wrong
[15:06:19] <Mjolinor> Would that produce this problem?
[15:10:15] <awallin> do you have encoders? those can run in 1x or 4x mode
[15:10:25] <Mjolinor> no
[15:11:40] <awallin> do you have 4x microstepping drives then?
[15:13:01] <Mjolinor> i hav ehte microstepping set to 2
[15:13:30] <Mjolinor> but htat shouldnt affect it, I assume stepconf can work out hat I have microstepping oon and what it is set to when it does the calculatioin
[15:13:35] <awallin> most motors are 200steps/rev.. did you check and double check yours?
[15:13:49] <Mjolinor> I think I have the polarity wrong when I go form 8 wire to 4 wire by ocnnecting the coils in series
[15:14:01] <Mjolinor> it is 200 steps as far as I can tell
[15:14:13] <awallin> stepconf can't know the microstepping setting of your drive unless you tell it...
[15:14:32] <Mjolinor> so I htink it is set weiht reverse polarity on one fo the 2 series coils, this is where my problems start
[15:14:40] <Mjolinor> yes I have told it
[15:18:00] <awallin> here's something on the wiring http://www.divms.uiowa.edu/~jones/step/types.html
[15:18:11] <Mjolinor> http://www.linengineering.com/line/contents/stepmotors/Wiring_Connections.aspx
[15:18:19] <awallin> your drive has 4 terminals? for a normal 4-wire motor?
[15:18:21] <Mjolinor> looking at trhat one and I am pretty sure I have it wrong
[15:18:47] <Mjolinor> the driver is 4 wire, the motors are 8
[15:18:58] <awallin> right.
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[15:19:39] <Mjolinor> so I cant find a spec sheet for hte motors so it had to be best guess but according to that link the colours are standard and the colours do match my steppers so I ahve it wrong :)
[15:19:47] <Mjolinor> that is a weight off I can tell you :)
[15:20:01] <awallin> in that 8-wire picture, one way is to join 3+2, and 7+6, and treat it as a 4-wire motor
[15:20:36] <Mjolinor> Im off to rewire, it doesnt help that ther eis no internet where the lathe is and its a mile away so I hit a snag and have to come home to try to solve it then go back and try the solution
[15:20:54] <awallin> with a multimeter and/or oscilloscope it should be possible to figure out the wiring
[15:21:37] <Mjolinor> not to guesss the polarity it isnt possible
[15:22:03] <Mjolinor> Iknwo that at the moment it is connected 1 to 4 with 2 and 3 to the driver which actually shoudl be OK I think
[15:22:11] <awallin> if you rotate the motor you should see back emf? and get the polarity from that?
[15:34:21] <pcw_home> Yes thats a good way if no BEMF, you have a winding reversed
[15:35:47] <pcw_home> also for parallel wiring the motor will have a lot of drag if you have windings paralleled wrong
[15:36:19] <awallin> I guess the two parallel coils should have their BEMF swing in the same direction
[15:36:55] <pcw_home> ( you can feel this by hand turning the shaft)
[15:37:24] <pcw_home> Yes otherwise its a shorted series connection
[15:39:08] <A2Sheds> is there a way to use M63 to turn off a digital output without having any further motion?
[15:40:34] <A2Sheds> if I use M62 to turn on a digital output when I begin motion say along with G1, how do you turn off the same digital output at the end of motion?
[15:42:10] <awallin> AND with an M63 ?
[15:43:16] <A2Sheds> awallin: M63 AND "what" ?
[15:43:43] <A2Sheds> what's the other command or signal with M63?
[15:44:18] <awallin> I don't know... if you issue both M62 and M63 before a move, and then have an AND block in HAL, what do you get then?
[15:44:44] <awallin> in HAL/motion there's also a pin for when motion is finished, that might also work
[15:45:05] <A2Sheds> or what if M65 is the next line after say M62 G1 X Y
[15:46:45] <awallin> yes that could work, but there is probably no real-time guarantee of how quickly M65 turns the output off
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[15:49:21] <Mjolinor> ok so no wrong wiring polarity from the colours
[15:49:41] <archivist> Mjolinor, wiring will not effect the number of steps per rev
[15:49:52] <Mjolinor> that is assuming the colours are coorect, I suppose I iwll check back emf if I cant find anything else
[15:50:23] <archivist> wrong distance can only be data entry to step conf
[15:50:26] <A2Sheds> awallin: would M65 turn off by the time of the next line that probably would be another M62 command?
[15:50:36] <Mjolinor> I am not convinced about that
[15:50:43] <archivist> I am!
[15:50:48] <Mjolinor> if one coild is backwards the motor may behave unpredictably
[15:51:22] <archivist> if it sounds right then it is wired right
[15:51:30] <Mjolinor> it doesnt sound right
[15:51:34] <awallin> A2Sheds: yes, youll very probably see things happening in the right order, but I'm not sure about real-time timing between different lines of g-code
[15:51:38] <Mjolinor> and it dosnt seem to me to go anywhere near fast enough
[15:52:00] <archivist> where in the country are you?
[15:52:09] <Mjolinor> me? burnley
[15:52:36] <archivist> east midlands if you were closer I could help
[15:52:41] <Mjolinor> :)
[15:52:45] <Mjolinor> too far away
[15:52:47] <Mjolinor> southerner
[15:52:50] <Mjolinor> :)
[15:53:11] <archivist> hell no, Im a northener (north of watford)
[15:53:20] <Mjolinor> south of manchester though
[15:53:29] <Mjolinor> even south of liverpool
[15:53:33] <archivist> bot 60 miles
[15:53:37] <archivist> bout
[15:53:38] <Mjolinor> that is certainly "south"
[15:53:55] <A2Sheds> awallin: it's not anything critical like timing/syncing two machine tools, just turning on a light or camera when the machine makes certain movements
[15:54:22] <awallin> A2Sheds: ok, then M65 on the following line will do
[15:54:25] <Mjolinor> maybe I dont have enough voltage
[15:54:50] <archivist> Mjolinor, your old driver wiring should show you which wire was which
[15:55:11] <Loetmichel> *waaah* Got the occasional step loss in Y. Happend ONLY in certain programs, but there drastically... it was a loos coupling Stepper-> leadscrew, could rotate freely about 5. Effect: Resonance at about 60-90mm/min. Tightened the coupling: step loss gone.. (but had to dismanlte half the machine!) ;-)
[15:55:15] <Mjolinor> hmm, you mean the wiring that the rats ate while making their nests in it?
[15:55:17] <Loetmichel> Hiphiphorray!
[15:55:21] <A2Sheds> awallin: thanks, I have to develop my Hal-Fu
[15:55:53] <archivist> Mjolinor, as long as each end was still coloured
[15:56:18] <Mjolinor> the inside of this lathe was very simlar to london in 1945
[15:56:46] <Mjolinor> state not helped by the explosion and melt down that happened when the previous owner plugged it in
[15:57:16] <Mjolinor> this lathe actually ahd the only discrete component VFD I have ever seen
[15:57:24] <archivist> well which colours were common
[15:58:15] <Mjolinor> hmm, interestingly I jsut found refernce to 400 steps per rev as an option in the steppers
[16:00:35] <A2Sheds> awallin: I see now, HAL/motion pin AND M62..... now just to learn how to AND those to an I/O pin
[16:01:10] <Mjolinor> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html/man/man9/logic.9.html <<< how to AND
[16:01:30] <awallin> A2Sheds: I'd look at motion.motion-inpos with halmeter first to see if it's what you want
[16:03:08] <jthornton> A2Sheds: and2
[16:03:33] <A2Sheds> yeah, I also just realized that I could use M63 G1 in the next line since I'll always be moving right after the camera is turned off
[16:03:41] <jthornton> http://linuxcnc.org/docview/html/man/man9/and2.9.html
[16:04:26] <Mjolinor> I wondered if there were plans to drop and2 or2 and replace them with logic.
[16:04:38] <Mjolinor> it seems to do the same thing to me
[16:04:49] <jthornton> afaik nope
[16:04:55] <A2Sheds> I just want the realtime digital output enabled during certain moves, and off when that move is over
[16:05:06] <jthornton> they would be marked depreciated if that was the case
[16:13:42] <A2Sheds> it's hacky but guess I can also issue a M63 G1 X [.0001] to turn off the digital output since a move that small is within the tolerance of the machine
[16:14:59] <A2Sheds> how many steps (Gcode lines) ahead does the trajectory planner from the current movement?
[16:15:59] <jthornton> iirc as far as it can
[16:16:13] <jthornton> or I'm totally wrong
[16:16:16] <jthornton> you pick
[16:16:45] <A2Sheds> heh, I recall some discussion on the buffer depth of the traj planner
[16:16:53] * Tom_itx tosses a coin
[16:16:55] <Tom_itx> call it
[16:17:00] <jthornton> heads
[16:17:27] <A2Sheds> time to experiment, thanks!
[16:17:34] <archivist> stop using that two headed coin
[16:17:55] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/temp/penny_heads.jpg
[16:18:11] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/temp/penny_tails.jpg
[16:18:16] <A2Sheds> heads I win tails you lose?
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[17:49:57] <IchGucksLive> Ej someone nowes a email grabber or extractor for ubuntu
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[17:59:45] <jthornton> what is a grabber or extractor?
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[18:06:10] <jy76> hello anybody on ?
[18:06:27] <jy76> hello anybody on ?
[18:08:31] <A2Sheds> just wondering or do you have a question?
[18:08:57] <jthornton> lol
[18:10:22] <jy76> hello anybody on?
[18:10:36] <IchGucksLive> jthornton: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoZeha3M740
[18:10:40] <A2Sheds> jy76; are you really there?
[18:10:53] -!- jy76 has quit [Quit: Bye Bye]
[18:11:07] <syyl> that was...
[18:11:08] <syyl> strange
[18:11:28] <syyl> maybe he was in a other dimension...
[18:11:35] <jthornton> IchGucksLive: I see
[18:11:45] <IchGucksLive> jthornton: i found a online one http://emailx.discoveryvip.com/
[18:12:00] <A2Sheds> maybe his portal will reopen?
[18:12:29] <syyl> i have no great hopes for that
[18:12:35] <syyl> he's lost
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[18:31:47] <andypugh> This looks ideal for powering a stepper machine. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/260901486013
[18:33:07] <jthornton> nice find
[18:33:42] <andypugh> I don't need one, but I might buy one anyway.
[18:34:18] <syyl> having one is better than needing one ;)
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[18:35:05] <archivist> having++ till not enough space error at line one
[18:36:35] <andypugh> I was looking to try running my home-made motor at a higher voltage, but having tried 30V rather than 20V, and making things worse (Oh, and blowing up a 7i39 too) I instead tried rewiring the motor in Star and increased the max speed from 240rpm to 600rpm, which will probably be enough.
[18:40:19] -!- syyl_ws [syyl_ws!~sg@p4FD13AAD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #emc
[18:43:56] <IchGucksLive> andypugh: http://such001.reichelt.de/index.html?;ACTION=444;LA=444;GROUPID=2050;PROFID=4991;SEARCH=snt;SID=13TsKS7H8AAAIAAApBeFg4a85e928740ea0bc871f1b3badf05973
[18:44:02] <IchGucksLive> i use one of this
[18:44:11] <IchGucksLive> 48V and nice case fit
[18:44:41] <archivist> I needz moar amps for 5 axis :)
[18:44:44] <andypugh> Yes, I have several of that style in my machine, and one I found in the skip at work too.
[18:45:03] <IchGucksLive> i run 5 Axis
[18:45:36] <IchGucksLive> you now that you need to calculade on Stepper Voltige the watts
[18:46:05] -!- jy76 [jy76!WebseitenU@host-64-179-15-34.syr.choiceone.net] has joined #emc
[18:46:09] <andypugh> But that eBay one is 10A @ 50V + 12A @ 12V with -12V, 5V and 24V too. So it would power the whole system, including contactors etc.
[18:46:29] <IchGucksLive> jy76: Hi
[18:46:49] <archivist> jy76, wait for answers
[18:47:01] <IchGucksLive> andypugh: i think its 10A on 5C and 1.6A on 50V
[18:47:49] <andypugh> Huh?
[18:48:05] <IchGucksLive> jy76: thanks for joining us what is you router lok like
[18:48:27] <andypugh> If my current project works, I will have 4 linear axes.
[18:48:37] <jy76> hi, arch r u referring to my previous multiple statements? my wireless keyboard is troubling me
[18:48:38] <IchGucksLive> andypugh: multi voltige counta the amps on its lowest supply
[18:48:57] <andypugh> IchGucksLive: Did you look at the auction?
[18:49:04] <IchGucksLive> yes
[18:49:17] <jy76> ich do not have a router trying to configure 5 ax mill
[18:49:53] <IchGucksLive> andypugh: AC at 5Amp
[18:50:20] <IchGucksLive> jy76: mill or robot
[18:50:43] <andypugh> IchGucksLive: Yes it has a 5A 50V AC output _and_ a 10A 50V DC.
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[18:51:19] <IchGucksLive> oh thats realy good if it is like it says
[18:51:32] <IchGucksLive> jy76: XYZ??
[18:51:42] <jy76> mill, going to rotate head in x and have a rivett lathe to install on bede
[18:52:11] <andypugh> jy76: Is the plan to use the lathe as a spindle, or an axis, or both?
[18:52:30] <jy76> ich xyz ab hopefully
[18:52:49] <IchGucksLive> b is rotation axis
[18:53:18] <IchGucksLive> jy76: do you got any picture or pre sketch
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[18:53:26] <jy76> andy both thinking of servo drive with spindle encoder
[18:53:59] <andypugh> I am assuming something akin to the Tormacg "Duality" lathe, with a lathe tool holder on the spindle casting?
[18:54:04] <mhaberler> andypugh: useful handle on the power supply.. so you can throw it away real fast ;=)
[18:54:05] <andypugh> (Tormach)
[18:55:09] <IchGucksLive> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HO2rmNkZ4M4 TORMACH
[18:55:16] <jy76> ich no, but i have an index mill and the rivett lathe,got the idea from tormach, we used these in school and my instructor was building his with an atlas lathe head
[18:56:55] <IchGucksLive> Indeg G200 or 300
[18:58:12] <jy76> andy yes like duality but am going to lock spindle and mount lathe tools direct,hopeful to integrate 5 or maybe six axis ie spindle travel for 5 ax drilling
[18:58:50] <IchGucksLive> 6th axis for center drill
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[18:59:24] <jy76> ich i believe it is an index 412 not certain and its colder than i would like to go find out
[19:00:36] <jy76> ich 6 for spindle z axis to dril and bore compound angles inside pockets
[19:02:23] <IchGucksLive> ok that sounds funny
[19:02:41] <IchGucksLive> ok im off BY have a nice sunday
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[19:07:56] <jy76> andy do i have to download the rtapi or is it on the live cd?
[19:08:46] <jthornton> if you install from the EMC LiveCD your good to go
[19:10:20] <jy76> jthornton down loaded and installed whwn setting up hal it says rtapi needs to be loaded, when i try to load in terminal it shows error rtapi not loaded
[19:11:36] <jthornton> are you trying to run hal from a terminal?
[19:12:55] <jy76> halrun is the command in terminal straight from hal user manual, reloading right now to try again
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[19:28:41] <A2Sheds> pcw_home: if I only use 2 servo sections of a 7i33 and I only need one TTL digital output, is there an easy way to use one of the leftover servo connections for I/O vs using a 7i37 for only one I/O?
[19:30:02] <skunkKandT> A2Sheds: I think you would have to splice into the 50 connector... (at least that is how I would do it ;) )
[19:30:08] <skunkKandT> (cable0
[19:30:14] <skunkKandT> (cable)
[19:30:27] <skunkKandT> (membrane keyboards suck)
[19:31:40] <A2Sheds> skunkKandT: I'm just wondering, but if i also want to add Home and Limit switches 7i37 is easier
[19:32:28] <skunkKandT> yes
[19:32:54] * skunkKandT has not used his 7i37's yet
[19:34:30] <A2Sheds> Ii already had to make a custom logic board to gate the encoder signal being passed on to another controller
[19:35:11] <A2Sheds> well gate and quadrature divide by 8
[19:36:20] <skunkKandT> A2Sheds: how did you do the quadrature divide?
[19:37:05] <A2Sheds> this stage is 8-16 x more accurate than the drop dia. from the printhead
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[19:38:21] <A2Sheds> skunkKandT: it only has to divide when the quadrature is going one direction so a simple ripple counter works
[19:38:29] <skunkKandT> ah
[19:39:13] <skunkKandT> I know more than one person that has tried to do quadature divide with ttl logic and didn't take into account all changes.. :)
[19:39:15] <A2Sheds> other wise that tiny armel design should work with the lookup table should work to keep track of a change in direction
[19:39:39] <skunkKandT> I think jepler has something like that on his website
[19:39:50] <A2Sheds> heh, yeah, there are two designs there
[19:40:32] <A2Sheds> my AC servo amps actually have a DSP that can divide by any whole number
[19:43:52] <A2Sheds> it's not perfect but I want all the res in EMC I can get so I'm dividing outside of the encoder feedback to 7i33 loop
[19:44:42] <skunkKandT> yep
[19:44:55] <skunkKandT> I have about 60k counts per inch
[19:48:22] <A2Sheds> this is at 16K per 5mm so about 80k/inch
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[19:48:46] <skunkKandT> nice
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[19:51:09] <A2Sheds> better than the screws, for anything tighter than this I use linear motors
[19:51:47] <Loetmichel> *ahhhhh* now i have about 4 hours of fault-free milling. then: no movement x-axis... reason: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12563
[19:52:16] <Loetmichel> at the moment i have the feeling the Mill doesent like me at all ;-)
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[19:53:30] <MattyMatt> do the next ones with clamp hubs
[19:53:51] <MattyMatt> split in half with 2 screws etc
[19:54:52] <MattyMatt> the hose clamp should last long enough to get it made >:)
[19:55:18] <Loetmichel> hmmm
[19:55:27] <Loetmichel> hose clamp...
[19:55:39] <A2Sheds> crap, that looks like something that would happen to me with only 1-2 parts to go, 1 hour left at 4am with no spare until 7am
[19:56:03] <Loetmichel> maybe i have piece of steel tube with fitting diameter, so i can pess a ring over the coupling.
[19:56:28] <Loetmichel> than i can work now and mustnt wait 'til monday...
[19:58:00] <skunkKandT> or - a piece of hose and 2 hose clamps.. ;) (like nice fiber re-enforced air hose
[19:58:37] <MattyMatt> the springy part of that coupler looks OK. I might try that in delrin
[19:59:30] <MattyMatt> my Y is still running on brewing hose tied on with wire
[20:00:01] <MattyMatt> I'm abaout to change the leadscrew tho, so I'll make sth better
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[20:02:26] <MattyMatt> hi awallin. done anything with the voxels lately?
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[20:42:58] <andypugh> Loetmichel: Home-made coupling?
[20:43:30] <Loetmichel> YES
[20:43:34] <Loetmichel> MADE FROM pol
[20:43:57] <Loetmichel> grr, capslock
[20:44:04] <Loetmichel> made from POM
[20:44:11] <Loetmichel> Delrin
[20:45:43] <andypugh> The black version always looks stronger.
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[20:47:53] <Loetmichel> so, i got it fixed. Not pretty but does its chores: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12566
[20:48:18] <Loetmichel> (some copper wire, some solder... had no fitting tube ;-)
[20:48:55] <archivist> I had to repair remake couplings, buy some good ones :)
[20:49:00] <andypugh> I wondered why the hole was ragged.
[20:49:35] <andypugh> No lathe then?
[20:50:24] <Loetmichel> i even have two lathes... but a dead motor on the "big" and no useable ways on the small one ;-)
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[20:51:17] <andypugh> Perhaps I am unusual, but I can cope a lot better without a mill than without a lathe.
[20:51:34] <skunkKandT> odd
[20:52:37] <andypugh> I guess it is because I have always had a lathe, but only had access to milling for the last 10 years or so.
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[20:52:55] <andypugh> (I started using my dad's lathe when I was 7)
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[20:55:16] <skunkKandT> I could not touch my dads machinery until I was probably 10ishs
[20:55:26] * Loetmichel CAN use a lathe... but since the mill is CNC, tha lathe(s) conventional i leant o mill most "lathe" parts ;-)
[20:55:35] <skunkKandT> or older... I really dont remember
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[20:56:25] <Loetmichel> skunkKandT: i shoht a lathe collet key through the roof at age 5... on my fahters lathe ;-)
[20:56:31] <Loetmichel> literally
[20:56:58] <skunkKandT> heh
[20:58:33] <syyl_> same here andypugh
[20:58:38] <syyl_> could go without a mill
[20:58:43] <syyl_> but a lathe...is essential
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[21:00:02] <syyl_> lathe is still king of machine tools in my shop ;)
[21:04:04] <archivist> manual lathe is easy to fire up and use
[21:04:55] <syyl_> and has very much uses...
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[21:19:28] <skunkKandT> http://www.freedomcnc.com/industrial-cnc-control
[21:20:34] <skunkKandT> what a bunch of bullarky.. Yes - windows maybe..
[21:21:43] <Jymmm> skunkKandT: say what?
[21:22:42] <skunkKandT> wait - is that a word?
[21:23:10] <Jymmm> skunkKandT: I'm jut trying to figure out wth your babbling about
[21:23:13] <andypugh> skunkKandT: They do seem to be referring only to Windows there.
[21:24:20] <skunkKandT> having to hit the correct button on the screen.... whatever. Create a suitable control panel
[21:24:22] <Jymmm> skunkKandT: See, they doit with panduit!!! http://freedomcnc.com/sites/default/files/controlcab.jpg
[21:25:09] <Jymmm> Though, the shop is way to clean imo
[21:26:42] <Jymmm> I do like that they put <-- + Z - --> on the gantry itself though
[21:27:05] <Jymmm> http://freedomcnc.com/sites/default/files/BlackMax1.jpg
[21:28:43] <Jymmm> http://freedomcnc.com/videos
[21:33:38] <syyl_> prototype of my mpg casing ;)
[21:33:39] <syyl_> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/24396704/2011-12-17_22-30-59_819.jpg
[21:34:34] <Jymmm> looks like a penis
[21:34:42] <Jymmm> out of paper
[21:34:46] <syyl_> uhm
[21:34:50] <syyl_> strange penis
[21:34:51] <Mjolinor> OMG I would not like to see you with no clothes
[21:35:01] <Jymmm> too thick, too bulky
[21:35:13] <Jymmm> for use as a pendant
[21:35:13] <syyl_> you dont have a girlfriend, ha? ;)
[21:35:20] <elmo40> lmao
[21:35:22] <syyl_> big hands :)
[21:35:43] <Jymmm> I have big hands, and that is still too bulky
[21:36:19] <syyl_> and thats why whe call it prototyping ;)
[21:36:26] <andypugh> Are we still talking about your penis?
[21:36:27] <syyl_> the sides will get a bit slimer
[21:36:32] <syyl_> dont think so
[21:36:38] <syyl_> changed over to the casing
[21:36:55] <syyl_> (i hope we did)
[21:37:20] <Jymmm> ok, so a slimmer penis pendant
[21:37:38] <syyl_> maybe you have a small problem ;)
[21:38:16] <Jymmm> you need to look at calculators, cordless, cell phones, smart phones, remote controls.
[21:38:42] <Jymmm> it doesn't need to be for a 800 lb gorilla to use as a pendant
[21:39:22] <syyl_> i looked at our pendants at work
[21:39:35] <syyl_> they are all pretty rough und robust
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[21:39:59] <Jymmm> sure, for industrial controls that get used and abused
[21:39:59] <syyl_> the haidenheim one looks, like you could hammer a nail into the wall with it ;)
[21:40:15] <syyl_> and why should i go for anything less? :D
[21:40:28] <Jymmm> are you going to use and abuse it?
[21:40:48] <syyl_> yeah, wet and dirty
[21:41:19] <Jymmm> ok, doesnt need to be non-egronomomical though
[21:41:38] <syyl_> thats right, im still working on the design :D
[21:41:50] <Jymmm> start over
[21:41:55] <syyl_> but elegant forms are hard to do in paper
[21:42:00] <syyl_> i will change over to cad
[21:42:02] <Jymmm> try a vagina instead =)
[21:42:43] <syyl_> everythime, you are inflicted in a discussion, it gets a bit weird
[21:42:50] <syyl_> "a bit"
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[21:50:10] <andypugh> pcw_home: I take it that it is a bad sign if the caps on a 7i39HV explode?
[21:50:52] <skunkKandT> rectifying the mains again?
[21:50:55] <andypugh> Is there any point replacing them, or are they likely to be a symptom of something more fundamental having given up.
[21:52:26] <elmo40> now this is a nice pendant : http://www.powerautomation.de/index.php?id=234
[21:52:46] <elmo40> simple, will fit in the hand, with an e-stop
[21:54:06] <syyl_> thats my favourite
[21:54:07] <syyl_> http://i.ebayimg.com/00/$%28KGrHqN,!jcE1JImBvokBN%28lfTWG%28g~~_35.JPG
[21:54:16] <syyl_> but the encoder i have is pretty massive
[21:54:21] <andypugh> Here's a pendant for Jymmm http://www.jewelrypayless.com/images/silver/pendants/otherpendants/PES01769_300.jpg
[21:54:36] <syyl_> 90mm in diameter and needs a 45mm deep housing
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[21:55:30] <elmo40> that is rather large. made for the panel, not a pendant
[21:56:04] <syyl_> but i am to cheap to buy another from fleabay ;)
[21:56:13] <elmo40> syyl_: that is one off of a Heidenhain controller
[21:56:20] <syyl_> exactly
[21:56:23] <syyl_> a hr 410
[21:56:30] <skunkKandT> I really need a nice jog pendon
[21:56:52] <syyl_> i have that one at work on our fp2nc
[21:56:58] <syyl_> its great to work with :)
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[21:57:47] <elmo40> has a magnet on the back side?
[21:57:54] <syyl_> jep
[21:58:01] <syyl_> pretty strong ones
[21:59:00] <syyl_> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/24396704/qtl2_4.jpg
[21:59:06] <syyl_> sticks on the side of the controller
[22:01:51] <elmo40> thats where we put it.
[22:01:59] <elmo40> or on the part when we are in the machine ;)
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[22:02:28] <syyl_> in the machine is hard on the deckel ;)
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[22:13:40] <elmo40> we have large horizontal boring mills.
[22:13:42] <elmo40> TOS machines
[22:14:18] <pcw_home> andypugh electrolytic caps?
[22:14:32] <syyl_> ah
[22:14:37] <syyl_> tos is a name i know :D
[22:14:51] <elmo40> very large machines.
[22:15:02] <elmo40> capacity : 25 tonnes :)
[22:15:07] <syyl_> mh
[22:15:13] <syyl_> serious machinery :D
[22:15:13] <elmo40> more then what the crane can hold LOL
[22:16:44] <andypugh> pcw_home: Yes, the ones next to the 50-pin connector.
[22:17:17] <andypugh> I had the transformer set to 44V, but when I put the meter on it (a bit too late) it said 60V.
[22:18:37] <pcw_home> I would replace them (but if they failed you either had a excessive ripple situation - the 7I39 needs a big external electrolytic)
[22:18:39] <pcw_home> or you were running the 7I39 under a continous overvoltage and the protection mechanism damaged the local caps
[22:19:39] <pcw_home> Ii its not a dead short now across VMOTOR I'dreplace them
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[22:21:12] <andypugh> OK, I will try to locate the correct tall, thin, caps.
[22:21:45] <pcw_home> You can do without if you have a close big external CAP
[22:22:00] <andypugh> Though I don't actually need the drive, I am back on the LV version, and have re-wired the motor in Star, and it all works a lot better.
[22:23:25] <pcw_home> Did you try spinning the drive to see ist V/RPM factor?
[22:24:00] <pcw_home> that will alos let you check for shorted turns/winding errors etc
[22:25:12] <andypugh> Yes, I can't get more than 5V out of the motor, so the problem was drive over-current, not motor over-voltage.
[22:27:06] <pcw_home> Are the 3 phases nice equal ~sine waves?
[22:32:42] <skunkKandT> I just don't know why people just don't use emc.. http://www.cnczone.com/forums/dynomotion_kflop_kanalog/142000-optimizing_servo_tuning.html
[22:32:44] <skunkKandT> :)
[22:33:02] <skunkKandT> And people think setting up emc is hard..
[22:34:53] <syyl_> i thought that too...
[22:38:48] <andypugh> pcw_home: I haven't scoped it, I can't find the special IEC lead for the 'scope
[22:40:13] <pcw_home> Arduino Scope!
[22:41:42] <Jymmm> andypugh: all yours
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[22:54:12] <pcw_home> skunkKandT Tuning servo systems can be a difficult problem regardless of the controller
[22:54:14] <pcw_home> reminds me of an example (Delta Tau maybe?) of moving a wrecking ball with a crane with no overshoot
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[22:54:49] <xavier__> hi all
[22:56:19] <xavier__> I was reading the emc devel version documentation and I am VERY interested in gcode remaping function
[22:56:36] <xavier__> describe here : http://linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/remap/structure.html
[22:57:06] <xavier__> somebody knows the status of this dev?
[22:57:12] <xavier__> try this?
[22:59:31] <xavier__> ...hey guys wakeup ;-)
[22:59:42] <andypugh> It's in the Master version.
[22:59:57] <xavier__> !!!
[23:00:03] <xavier__> Hi andy
[23:00:08] <andypugh> Do you have questions not answered in the docs?
[23:00:24] <andypugh> <prods mhaberler >
[23:00:39] <mhaberler> uh, hi
[23:00:53] <xavier__> no I just want to know if this feature is enough stable to be use in production
[23:01:00] <xavier__> (hobby)
[23:01:00] <mhaberler> yes it is
[23:01:24] <mhaberler> a few people are using it with no ill effects so far
[23:01:37] <xavier__> Hi Michael great job!
[23:01:45] <mhaberler> what specifically are you trying to do?
[23:02:03] <xavier__> just tool change purposes
[23:02:08] <mhaberler> ah, ok
[23:02:08] <xavier__> as your exemple
[23:02:16] <xavier__> example
[23:02:18] <mhaberler> manual?
[23:02:22] <xavier__> yes
[23:02:42] <mhaberler> yep, that should work as advertise
[23:02:43] <mhaberler> d
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[23:03:00] <xavier__> ok thank you a lot for your work
[23:03:22] <mhaberler> say that after you're up and running ;) but thanks anyway
[23:03:46] <xavier__> I need to compile EMC 2.6
[23:03:49] <xavier__> ?
[23:04:02] <mhaberler> no, you can pull the buildbot image
[23:04:11] <mhaberler> hold on..
[23:04:25] <xavier__> yes it will be easier
[23:05:21] <andypugh> buildbot.linuxcnc.org - follow the instructions
[23:06:00] <mhaberler> hm, need to check wether these are current..
[23:06:17] <xavier__> I though that buildbot is only for 2.4 and 2.5 branch
[23:06:26] <xavier__> but also for master
[23:06:29] <xavier__> fine
[23:06:57] <mhaberler> strange, the last valid build of master-rt/i386 is from Dec 4..
[23:07:44] <mhaberler> but it should be from last night - or at least dec11 (date of last change to master)
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[23:11:00] <mhaberler> hm, there seems to be an issue with recent master builds, but I assume that can be resolved shortly
[23:11:07] <mhaberler> or you build from git
[23:11:45] <xavier__> what is the "precise" version of the buildbot packages?
[23:11:58] <mhaberler> the next relevant ubuntu version
[23:12:06] <xavier__> Oneric?
[23:12:08] <mhaberler> that's work in progress
[23:12:10] <skunkKandT> pcw_home: I was commenting more on the C you have to use to setup 'soft limits'
[23:12:12] <mhaberler> no 12.x
[23:12:20] <xavier__> ok
[23:12:38] <xavier__> thx
[23:13:01] <mhaberler> it is not an issue with the master tree.. it's a git bug which awaits resolution with the ubuntu folks
[23:13:11] <mhaberler> you need to build from git for now
[23:13:56] <xavier__> ok I am going to install git
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[23:26:42] <pcw_home> skunkKandT I didn't look at the complete thread but lots of icks there for example:
[23:26:44] <pcw_home> "Regarding the pauses. This is somewhat of a known issue and is caused by us flushing the USB buffer on each Rapid motion (G0)...."
[23:26:47] <pcw_home> also they have no velocity estimation again: ick. Sure you can add a low pass on velocity but that lowers the phase margin and
[23:26:48] <pcw_home> servo performance
[23:27:08] <skunkKandT> yeck
[23:27:27] * skunkKandT hugs emc and peter.. (sorry peter)
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[23:31:28] <pcw_home> I just think having all the control in one place is more elegant and results fewer compromises
[23:32:47] <xavier__> I tried to compile emc master on xubuntu oneric (I hate unity). I have the followed error : """configure: error: GTK2 missing. Install it or specify --disable-gtk to skip the parts of emc2 that depend on GTK"""
[23:32:57] <skunkKandT> and more flexable
[23:33:02] <xavier__> which part of emc depend on GTK?
[23:33:09] <xavier__> gladevcp?
[23:33:20] <xavier__> Axis?
[23:33:56] <skunkKandT> xavier__: are you following these directions? http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Installing_EMC2#Getting_the_source_with_git
[23:34:12] <xavier__> yes
[23:34:21] <skunkKandT> did you do 2.1.2?
[23:34:38] <xavier__> yes sure
[23:34:46] <skunkKandT> oh - oneric? is that the latest?
[23:34:55] <xavier__> yes 11.
[23:35:02] <xavier__> 11.10
[23:35:15] <skunkKandT> ah. Sorry - I don't know... (I have only done it on 10.04
[23:35:44] <xavier__> yes me too but I just reinstall my computer
[23:36:10] <xavier__> with xubuntu 11.10 and it don't work...
[23:36:26] <xavier__> ok I will try in a virtual machine
[23:36:34] <xavier__> I will be easier
[23:36:38] <xavier__> safer
[23:36:43] <skunkKandT> are you planning on running hardware with 11.10?
[23:37:00] <xavier__> no just simulator
[23:37:35] <xavier__> I was used to dev config/gcode on simultator
[23:38:01] <xavier__> and copy it on my CNC computer
[23:38:07] <xavier__> with realtime
[23:38:21] <skunkKandT> ah
[23:38:41] <skunkKandT> I think people have gotten simulator to run on it - But I do not have any info
[23:40:21] <xavier__> Before virtual machine, I will try configure with --disable-gtk before
[23:40:42] <xavier__> (sorry for my very poor english)
[23:42:47] <skunkKandT> not a problem - you are doing very well. (English is my first language and I suck at it) ;)
[23:44:45] <xavier__> French is my first language and I suck at it too ;-)
[23:46:12] <skunkKandT> (English is also my only language)
[23:46:23] <skunkKandT> so you are already 1 up..
[23:50:54] <xavier__> ok but I learned english for more than 15years spend 2 month in canada (Calgary) this year... So I am not very clever!
[23:51:16] <xavier__> EMC2.6 works fine with xubuntu 11.10
[23:51:22] <xavier__> with axis
[23:51:56] <xavier__> some dependencies has their name changed from 9.04
[23:53:13] <xavier__> I don't see any difference
[23:53:29] <xavier__> perhaps for gladevcp
[23:55:06] <xavier__> I will try tomorow
[23:55:24] <xavier__> I'll go to bed
[23:55:46] <xavier__> thank you skunkKandT and see you
[23:55:51] <xavier__> later
[23:56:33] <skunkKandT> bye
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