#emc | Logs for 2011-12-16

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[00:12:31] <andypugh> Tom_itx: Are you sure the bytes are in the right order?
[00:13:23] <Tom_itx> not really
[00:15:05] <andypugh> There looks to be plenty of scope for losing synch there.
[00:15:24] <Tom_itx> i don't doubt it
[00:15:43] <Tom_itx> i'm no c guru but i was trying to help somebody get his adxl sensor working
[00:16:03] <Tom_itx> it stores the results in 2 8bit regs per axis
[00:19:37] <mikegg> ADXL 345?
[00:20:32] <mikegg> what are you interfacing with? There's tons of Arduino examples out there for that guy
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[00:22:26] <Tom_itx> mikegg i think so
[00:24:52] <mikegg> the analog interface ones are pretty cheap too...
[00:25:12] <Tom_itx> yeah
[00:25:17] <Tom_itx> he's got an spi one
[00:26:16] <mikegg> cool thing about the analog ones - you can grab acceleration data through the mic port on a PC
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[00:26:48] <Tom_itx> i don't know what he's gonna do with it
[00:27:02] <Turtl3boi> tommy what is the part #
[00:27:05] <Turtl3boi> of that sensor
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[00:33:16] <tom3p> backlight lithophane http://videobin.org/+5f7/5ur.html
[00:34:16] <tom3p> mikegg, any links to info on the mic input for acc data ( hooked to a tacho ? )
[00:36:35] <Turtl3boi> hey tom how's that Sable going? does your sable have ball screws or acme screws
[00:37:19] <Turtl3boi> tom3p
[00:38:01] <tom3p> stock screws dotn know if those are acme, at 1.5mm pitch hard to see
[00:38:18] <tom3p> the acc sensor to mic input : http://www.kirchner-elektronik.de/gb-zubehoer.php
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[00:41:28] <Turtl3boi> tom3p can you send some pics of your Sable
[00:41:40] <Turtl3boi> i'd like to know what size the steppers are on those
[00:43:14] <tom3p> same photos as seen on ebay look at the specs he supplies
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[00:45:29] <Turtl3boi> c'mon i'd still like to see some pics
[00:46:56] <Turtl3boi> it also doesn't say what size the steppers are
[00:47:04] <Turtl3boi> are they nema 23 size?
[00:49:13] <Turtl3boi> or could they be NEMA 17s?
[00:50:08] <Tom_itx> are you a troll?
[00:54:00] <Turtl3boi> looks like some other user mentions they are Nema 17s
[00:54:05] <Turtl3boi> but i'd still like to know for sure
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[00:56:26] <jdhNC> you could buy one.
[00:57:55] <Turtl3boi> buy one what?
[00:57:58] <Turtl3boi> the router table or the motor
[00:58:29] <jdhNC> a sable
[00:58:33] <jdhNC> or a bridgeport
[00:58:42] <jdhNC> or a x2
[00:59:00] <Turtl3boi> is the "sieg x2" the same as the Harbor Freight's x2?
[00:59:11] <andypugh> Largely
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[00:59:43] <Turtl3boi> if you think the HF x2 can help me make a nice homebrew mill out of aluminum similar to what Loetmike has done, i'll go buy one because i have a gift certificate for HF right now
[00:59:58] <Turtl3boi> if it can't cut aluminum easily then the HF x2 is worthless to me
[01:00:57] <Turtl3boi> geez there's only one nema 17 servo motor on ebay
[01:01:27] <jdhNC> probably a mis-id'ed motor
[01:01:37] <jdhNC> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Cg0YyRINRQ&feature=fvsr
[01:01:45] <jdhNC> X2 cutting aluminum
[01:03:04] <Turtl3boi> i suppose usually servo motors come in the larger nema 23 variety more frequently
[01:03:59] <andypugh> I am not sure I have seen a NEMA 17 servo. I have 23-size servos, and they are as small as I have seen.
[01:04:27] <andypugh> Interesting setup on that X2, I wonser what happened when it finally broke free?
[01:04:39] <andypugh> (That bit wasn't shown...)
[01:04:47] <Turtl3boi> well they do make nema 17 servo motors, just gotta find them
[01:04:55] <Turtl3boi> haha yeah
[01:04:58] <jdhNC> why would you want a servo that small
[01:05:42] <andypugh> Yeah, at that size steppers might even be more effective.
[01:05:50] <Turtl3boi> do i need an "R8 spindle" with my HF x2?
[01:06:07] <Turtl3boi> i want to do PCBs with servo motors
[01:06:19] <Turtl3boi> and i want the closed loop control to prevent skipping
[01:06:38] <andypugh> Also, bear in mind that limiting yourself to NEMA size motors will not help, as NEMA is only relevant to the US.
[01:07:06] <andypugh> Steppers won't skip when milling PCBs.
[01:07:07] <Turtl3boi> well yeah i could just make a motor mount or something. it's just that the little Sable router uses Nema 17 size
[01:07:19] <Turtl3boi> i figured those tiny servos would be easy to come by
[01:07:31] <Turtl3boi> If steppers wo'nt skip then i don't need em haha
[01:07:59] <andypugh> PCB milling is a nice, predictable job.
[01:08:14] <Turtl3boi> btw do i need to get an R8 spindle eventually with HF to make it useful
[01:08:23] <Turtl3boi> is that a necessary upgrade
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[01:08:42] <andypugh> I don't particularly like R8.
[01:08:49] <andypugh> What's the alternative? MT3?
[01:09:50] <Turtl3boi> not sure yet
[01:10:14] <Turtl3boi> the x1 harbor freight comes with a MT2
[01:10:26] <Turtl3boi> the R8 spindle actually comes on the x2's now
[01:10:34] <Turtl3boi> it didn't last time i checked
[01:10:58] <Turtl3boi> the x1 is $300 and comes with a smaller motor and a smaller bed
[01:11:13] <Turtl3boi> but large has the same dimensions in heights and everything else
[01:11:16] <Turtl3boi> largely*
[01:13:58] <Turtl3boi> the damn price on the x2 went up to $600 instead of $500
[01:14:22] <andypugh> I find it hard to get exited by those machines.
[01:15:43] <Turtl3boi> yeah of course but i'm limited in size
[01:16:23] <andypugh> You need an FP1 then :-) (you didn't mention being limited for money)
[01:17:30] <andypugh> (F1, I mean, having googled)
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[01:38:51] <Turtl3boi> doh
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[01:46:18] <mikegg> tom3p: lemme see what I can dig up
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[01:48:31] <mikegg> http://pastebin.com/vhnUkvvm
[01:49:27] <mikegg> one of my colleagues wrote a python module(?) to read from the mic port
[01:50:01] <mikegg> I think this one did a fourier transform and looked for a spike above a certain threshold at a certain frequency
[01:50:25] <mikegg> you could put the Accelerometer on the table and detect tool touch, if you knew the spindle speed
[01:51:25] <mikegg> as far as the electrical connection to the mic... lol, I dunno. trial and error.
[01:51:50] <Turtl3boi> hehehe
[01:51:57] <Turtl3boi> that's a slick module mike egg
[01:52:33] <mikegg> thanks, not my work though. David Stonely deserves all the credit
[01:52:42] <tom3p> mikegg, thanks, reading now ( remembering http://xoscope.sourceforge.net/ too )
[01:52:45] <mikegg> I suppose I should post it to the wiki
[01:52:48] <Turtl3boi> he sounds smart, your buddy Stonely
[01:52:49] <jy76> howdy, anybody ever burn the live cd from a usb on a windows computer?
[01:53:20] <mikegg> can't you make a usb bootable? tuxboot or something
[01:53:59] <jy76> when i burnt the cd iso file changed to 0 bytes????
[01:55:09] <jy76> also my bios does not support usb boot
[01:57:44] <Turtl3boi> does your cd burning software support .ISO burning
[01:57:54] <Turtl3boi> there is a special mode for burning ISOs isn't there?
[01:59:37] <jy76> yes it does my ignorance to this matter is surely apparent as after the iso turned to 0 it created a new folder for ubuntu and i cannot copy and paste to reassemble and try another burn
[02:00:56] <mikegg> Am I just a tool, or is the wiki.... cumbersome
[02:01:26] <jy76> yes cumbersome
[02:04:14] <mikegg> so I made an entry under the misc section (copying the entries above), but it doesn't link to anything. How do I create a page for it to link to?
[02:07:41] <tom3p> mikegg, theres a link at bot of page to a 'BasicSteps' page and that explains how to log in , get perms, and edit a page ( the new page is created when a certain link is added )
[02:08:53] <mikegg> ah hah
[02:09:15] <mikegg> you have to include a single word with two capital letters
[02:09:18] <tom3p> i've no idea where you are tryng to add it, what 'misc', if i can help lemme know
[02:09:46] <mikegg> all the way at the bottom there is a miscellaneous section
[02:10:00] <mikegg> err "Misc Stuff"
[02:10:24] <Turtl3boi> mike egg is a cool name
[02:11:19] <tom3p> might you have the comp 'tddetect' used by that module?
[02:11:28] <tom3p> mikegg, ^^
[02:12:36] <mikegg> trying to remember how comp works.... Isn't that all you need?
[02:12:56] <mikegg> I thought you passed comp that stuff as an argument and it would make the halpins
[02:13:51] <tom3p> sorry, gotta read more, maybe the file you posted IS the comp
[02:14:16] <tom3p> i thought it was a driver/shell FOR the comp
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[02:39:14] <mikegg> alright, cool. I put it under the touch probes section
[02:39:32] <mikegg> but I just linked to the code - pasting it was no good
[02:41:10] <Turtl3boi> hey mike, do you have any spare servo motors
[02:41:18] <tom3p> mikegg, i never made a comp that way before, cool ( you pasted the comp itself, not a driver, its like a program that creates the comp! )
[02:41:22] <tom3p> mikegg, thanks
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[02:41:49] <mikegg> I have a couple extra Nema 23 BLDC
[02:41:54] <mikegg> well, I say extra
[02:42:03] <mikegg> not currently in use
[02:42:44] <mikegg> and some Nema 34 steppers
[02:42:45] <Turtl3boi> k
[02:42:52] <Turtl3boi> i want brushed DC
[02:43:04] <Turtl3boi> thanks tho
[02:43:11] <mikegg> why? I think the noise from commutation can be a problem
[02:43:17] <Turtl3boi> oh is it
[02:43:27] <Turtl3boi> someone said they are more straight forward to use
[02:43:44] <mikegg> well, two wires instead of three I guess
[02:43:45] <Turtl3boi> well i guess the driver boards for those brushless DC are more expensive?
[02:44:07] <Turtl3boi> wait if it's "DC" doesn't that mean it just has 2 wires going into it too?
[02:44:17] <Turtl3boi> is the controller built into the motor?
[02:44:27] <Turtl3boi> so all you have to do is provide DC to the motor
[02:45:17] <mikegg> somebody else stop me when i go astray here... With a brushed DC, you get two wires. DC voltage is proportional to speed
[02:45:31] <mikegg> current is proportaional to torque
[02:45:42] <mikegg> reverse the polarity and it changes direction
[02:45:46] <mikegg> pretty simple...
[02:45:50] <Turtl3boi> uh huh
[02:46:01] <Turtl3boi> i do know that cuz i've seen brushed DC
[02:46:08] <Turtl3boi> but i haven't come across a "BRUSHLESS DC" yet
[02:46:25] <mikegg> but the brush riding on the slip ring generates a lot of noise, which can cause problems in closed loop systems with feedback
[02:47:02] <mikegg> brushless have three wires, and they are "electrically commutated"
[02:47:27] <mikegg> whereas with a brushed motor the commutation is accomplished with brushes and slip rings
[02:47:41] <mikegg> *usually have three wires, I should probably say
[02:48:20] <mikegg> dude, read about it on wikipedia and you'll know as much as I do :)
[02:48:25] <Turtl3boi> well yeah but there must be a distinction betweeh "brushless AC" and "brushless DC"
[02:49:15] <mikegg> I think the voltage waveform that goes to a brushless DC is actually AC....
[02:49:22] <mikegg> to the windings that is
[02:49:30] <Turtl3boi> yeah it's some square waves basically
[02:49:38] <Turtl3boi> each one has a different phase
[02:49:41] <mikegg> wait until the morning, andypugh will set us all straight :)
[02:49:43] <Turtl3boi> like on my radio control airplane
[02:49:46] <Turtl3boi> yeah lol
[02:50:01] <Turtl3boi> but i bought this motor on ebay for making an electric bicycle
[02:50:12] <mikegg> brushed?
[02:50:18] <Turtl3boi> and it was also called "brushless DC" but it only had 2 wires coming out of it
[02:50:34] <mikegg> hmmm
[02:50:37] <Turtl3boi> so my point is that brushless DC doesn't necessarily imply 3 wires coming out of it
[02:50:44] <Turtl3boi> it may have the controller integrated
[02:50:47] <mikegg> could be
[02:51:04] <mikegg> it would need more wires
[02:51:19] <mikegg> a voltage supply, and a command signal
[02:51:31] <mikegg> if the controller were integrated...
[02:51:33] <mikegg> I tihnk
[02:51:35] <Turtl3boi> yeah it has 2 wires for DC power and a throttle control
[02:51:40] <mikegg> oh, ok
[02:51:43] <mikegg> there you go
[02:52:13] <Turtl3boi> yeah well i'm wondering about servo motors
[02:52:22] <Turtl3boi> if yours have 3 wires coming out of them that pretty much answers my question lol
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[03:24:34] <skunkworks_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMQn05cRXQs
[03:27:05] <elmo40> skunkworks_: :)
[03:28:54] <elmo40> it is very accurate? and stops on a dime?
[03:33:21] <skunkworks_> no clue - I just search youtube every so often for emc videos.
[03:33:30] <skunkworks_> ;)
[03:33:32] <mikegg> shutup, thats wicked cool
[03:33:48] <mikegg> what is he using for drives?
[03:35:14] <elmo40> who knows :p
[03:35:37] <mikegg> all he needs now is a cat :)
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[03:43:58] <ds3> somewhat unusal question - is there a way to ensure time the 'spindle' spends over a given point is constant while the spindle travels ?
[03:45:02] <mikegg> can't you pause until spindle_atspeed or whatever the parameter is goes high
[03:47:15] <elmo40> are you talking about Dwell?
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[03:59:57] <dms_> hi all Im trying to configure 5i25 +7i76 with the latest version of pncconf. I dont think its finding the firmware. Any help?
[04:09:44] <ds3> ~.
[04:10:13] <ds3> there isn't a real physical spindle
[04:10:21] <ds3> it is a laser where time the laser spends at a place matters
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[07:15:37] <automata> hi psha
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[07:25:00] <psha[work]> hi
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[09:06:48] <Turtl3boi> Loet?
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[09:08:13] <Turtl3boi> can a normal bandsaw for wood cut through aluminum?
[09:08:20] <Turtl3boi> like 3/8" aluminum plate
[09:08:33] <Turtl3boi> can a circular saw for wood cut through alum plate?
[09:14:15] <mrsun> from what i understand a wood bandsaw is in the rpm for alu, atleast for thin sheets of alu but dont think an ordenary bandsaw blade is the right thing tho :P
[09:15:43] <Turtl3boi> ok cool haha
[09:15:52] <Turtl3boi> i remember seeing someone do it before with a carbide circular saw
[09:16:08] <Turtl3boi> i bet there is a special carbide bandsaw blade
[09:17:46] <mrsun> well ordenary blades for metal should do it :P
[09:18:11] <mrsun> fromw hat i understand the only problem with a wood bandsaw to cut metal is that you cant change the speed of them
[09:18:29] <mrsun> ok some you can do it on but not nearly to the range needed for most metal
[09:19:25] <mrsun> and maybe a metal bandsaw is a bit more stirdy built :P
[09:19:33] <Jymmm> Turtl3boi: Yes, a carbined tip table saw can cut aluminum, but the chip GO EVERYWHERE (hari, pants, shirt, etc) and dont go fast at all
[09:19:47] <Turtl3boi> Eeeek
[09:20:05] <Jymmm> realize it's cutting 1/8" wide too
[09:20:47] * mrsun uses diamond disks for the angle grinder to cut cast iron =)
[09:21:10] <Jymmm> Turtl3boi: But it is a very clean (finished) cut
[09:21:12] <mrsun> found a cheap one, like $10 ... and ive already cut enough cast iron to make up for it in the cost in abrasive disks =)
[09:21:44] <Turtl3boi> haha
[09:21:56] <mrsun> cuts cast iron like butter =)
[09:22:08] <Turtl3boi> i wonder if i can make a cut with a small end mill?
[09:22:13] <Turtl3boi> use the mill
[09:22:39] <Jymmm> poor lil guys... http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=fvwp&v=SEBLt6Kd9EY
[09:22:54] <archivist> Turtl3boi, use a slitting saw
[09:23:00] <Jymmm> iBand... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9XNfWNooz4&feature=player_embedded%C2%A0&noredirect=1
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[09:27:41] <Turtl3boi> lol
[09:27:45] <Turtl3boi> what's a slitting saw
[09:28:17] <Turtl3boi> seems dangerous archive
[09:28:31] <Turtl3boi> might try it
[09:29:00] <Turtl3boi> the piece could come flying off
[09:29:23] <Jymmm> Turtl3boi: use LOTS of duct tape =)
[09:29:34] <Turtl3boi> hmm i see
[09:30:28] <Turtl3boi> thanks bbl
[09:30:31] <Turtl3boi> let me shop ;)
[09:31:00] <Jymmm> Turtl3boi: Yeah, the zebra stripped duct tape is strong than the camo ;)
[09:31:09] <Jymmm> stronger
[09:31:36] <Jymmm> Turtl3boi: but the leopard print duct tape is faster!
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[09:59:18] <alex_joni> morning Jymmm
[09:59:37] <Jymmm> hola
[10:01:13] <Jymmm> I'd love to have 8hours of continous sleep one of these years
[10:01:17] <alex_joni> heh
[10:01:24] <alex_joni> I had 3 the other night
[10:01:30] <alex_joni> and about 10 last night :)
[10:01:53] <Jymmm> I haven't slept through the night in over a year
[10:02:35] <Jymmm> will wake up wide awake for a couple of hours then go back to bed.
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[10:05:12] <Jymmm> alex_joni: Great lil uSD reader http://www.dealextreme.com/p/kawau-world-s-smallest-microsd-transflash-tf-sd-sdhc-usb-2-0-card-reader-keychain-25558
[10:06:04] <Jymmm> alex_joni: The blue LED stays lit when idle, blinks when active - great as a remined of where the hell you let it plugged in at =)
[10:06:15] <Jymmm> s/let/left/
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[12:02:41] <ssteinerX> is the download page at http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/download supposed to be in French? I doubt it...
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[13:58:05] <Mjolinor> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Silverline-598458-Magnetic-Base/dp/B000LFXR5E/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1324043770&sr=8-1
[13:58:20] <Mjolinor> that's good, I bought one last week and am impressed with it even thoguh it's a cheap one
[13:58:31] <Mjolinor> but it's not as cheap as it was last week :)
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[14:30:23] <Jymmm> kinda expensive though
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[14:30:58] <Jymmm> I have the same one and bought it for $20 USD iirc
[14:33:10] <jdhNC> I bought a few that look the same for $9.95
[14:41:03] <Mjolinor> wxownsive if you have the fortune to live in the US where everythign is cheap :)
[14:41:10] <Mjolinor> expensive
[14:51:57] <mikegg> every once in a while Enco runs sales on those Noga ones
[14:52:30] <mikegg> I've got one of the small ones, they're pricey, but worth it I think
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[16:27:14] <Gromits> I was using a generic usb gamepad to control my machine. I updated a bunch of stuff today on ubuntu and EMC (it had been months since last using the machine) and now it doesn't work.
[16:27:37] <Gromits> I get an error: input.0.btn.trigger does not exist
[16:28:04] <Gromits> Perhaps this is a usb driver change that did it? how can I tell?
[16:28:19] <Mjolinor> it ismore likely the device has changed it's numbers
[16:28:29] <Mjolinor> depends how you ahve it specified in your HAL file
[16:30:25] <Gromits> the file (custom_postgui.hal) is: http://pastebin.com/eUQ1gJkF
[16:31:23] <Mjolinor> # loadusr -W hal_input -KRAL DragonRise
[16:31:36] <Mjolinor> that line tells emc what device oyu have, is that the right name?
[16:31:56] <Gromits> Well, it was working before. Where do I look in ubuntu to see if that is correct?
[16:31:58] <Mjolinor> open a command window and type
[16:32:00] <Mjolinor> less /proc/bus/input/devices
[16:32:34] <Mjolinor> make sure DragonRise is lsited in there, if it isn't but you can see your input device then you need to chage the name in your HAL file to whatever it is
[16:32:59] <jthornton> Gromits: did you just upgrade to 2.4.7?
[16:33:31] <Gromits> I think it is still 2.4.6....
[16:33:53] <jthornton> I bet a beer it is 2.4.7 http://linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/component/kunena/?func=view&catid=29&id=13952
[16:34:00] <Mjolinor> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.4/html/man/man1/hal_input.1.html
[16:34:00] <Gromits> This is what I see: I: Bus=0003 Vendor=0079 Product=0006 Version=0110
[16:34:01] <Gromits> N: Name="DragonRise Inc. Generic USB Joystick "
[16:34:03] <Gromits> P: Phys=usb-0000:00:1d.3-2/input0
[16:34:05] <Gromits> S: Sysfs=/devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:1d.3/usb5/5-2/5-2:1.0/input/input6
[16:34:06] <Gromits> U: Uniq=
[16:34:08] <Gromits> H: Handlers=event6 js0
[16:34:09] <Gromits> B: EV=20001b
[16:34:11] <Gromits> B: KEY=fff 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
[16:34:13] <Gromits> B: ABS=3002f
[16:34:29] <Mjolinor> ok so the name si correct adn is there where it should be
[16:34:55] <jthornton> Gromits: it is a known problem see the link I posted
[16:35:49] <Gromits> I owe you a beer apparently, it is 2.4.7
[16:36:08] <jthornton> I like Kolsch :)
[16:36:59] <Gromits> so I just need to change btn-trigger to btn-joystick in the hal file?
[16:37:05] <jthornton> yep
[16:38:07] <Gromits> now I owe you 2 meers
[16:38:11] <Gromits> beers, that is
[16:38:15] <jthornton> lol
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[16:39:09] <Gromits> works, thanks! So, for future reference, how did you (was that you on the forum?) figure that out?
[16:39:23] <jthornton> mine broke first :)
[16:39:47] <Gromits> but how did you figure out that btn-trigger was now called btn-joystick?
[16:40:05] <Mjolinor> you can list all tehinputs a device provides
[16:40:10] <jthornton> I commented out the offending line so EMC would run then looked in Show Hal Configuration at the pin names
[16:40:12] <Mjolinor> in emc
[16:40:20] <Gromits> oh
[16:40:45] <jthornton> well there was some head scratching going on first
[16:40:46] <Gromits> gotcha
[16:40:51] <Gromits> i bet
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[16:41:07] <Gromits> my head doesn't itch at all right now ;-)
[16:42:20] <Mjolinor> I must be learning , I nearly answered a question then :)
[16:42:50] <Gromits> Can one cause a button on a joystick (or even a keyboard button) to move one increment (say 0.001)?
[16:48:23] <jthornton> yes, set your jog increment to 0.001
[16:52:01] <Loetmichel> re @ home
[17:04:00] <alex4nder-> hey
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[17:35:19] <Gromits> jthornton: I don't want to jog really, I want to just have it it move 0.001 once for each press of a button or joystick. I can set jog increment but it moves more than one increment.
[17:37:32] <Loetmichel> hmm, any objections to pull up LPT port pins with 2,2 kOhms?
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[17:57:15] <IchGucksLive> Hi all
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[18:11:32] <jthornton> Gromits: I'm not sure if you can do that in 2.4
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[18:13:15] <tom3p> re paraport driving: given that parport sink better than they source, the stock Opto22 style SSR racks often have the gnd pins of the control side commoned!
[18:13:21] <tom3p> so i had to hack it quited a bit to common the +5 side and isolate the other side :/
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[18:13:26] <tom3p> but thats not bad price for a freebee SSR rack
[18:13:46] <tom3p> gordos pb-4
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[18:38:45] <skunkworks> I love the opto22 stuff
[18:39:22] <skunkworks> expecially the pannels that work perfectly with mesa
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[18:41:01] <cradek> I like the LEDs on them
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[18:48:47] <skunkworks> yes
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[19:57:44] <Loetmichel> HRHR! I think i got the Problem with the step errors solved. The spindle-vfd is not guilty, not entirely though.
[19:59:37] <Loetmichel> The Stepper drivers are allergic to the click contacts from the ball bearings in the linear ways. the spindle noise is just lifting them above ttl level.
[20:00:29] <Loetmichel> i have gronded the table and the chassis... missteps nearly gone, just a few left when y moves
[20:01:16] <Loetmichel> no i have to find a way to ground the y sled... (which is atm only contacted by ball bearings above an beyond
[20:01:18] <Loetmichel> )
[20:01:48] <awallin> don't you have optoisolated inputs on the stepper drives? could have pc and controller isolated?
[20:05:55] <Turtl3boi> what's up Loet?
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[20:14:05] <jtektool> anybody here try to create nml messaging from scicoslab?
[20:19:12] <cradek> I have not heard of anyone trying that
[20:20:40] <cradek> the scicoslab wikipedia page is atrocious
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[20:21:55] <jtektool> i wrote a script to install it if someone will help me debug its working fine
[20:22:22] <jtektool> I knew cradek would chime in
[20:22:29] <jtektool> thats my dude
[20:23:27] <jtektool> i got scicoslab working with hart toolbox and modnum modules
[20:23:40] <jtektool> so you can use data acquisition cards
[20:23:47] <jtektool> or just parallel port
[20:24:05] <cradek> is it realtime?
[20:24:14] <jtektool> real time you want the script?
[20:24:22] <cradek> ?
[20:24:29] <jtektool> it is real time
[20:24:32] <cradek> I am 0% equipped to help with scicoslab
[20:24:42] <jtektool> yeah but you want to try it out
[20:24:58] <cradek> no I don't
[20:25:02] <jtektool> lol
[20:25:17] <jtektool> you just need a parallel port breakout board
[20:25:39] <cradek> but ... I already have hal_parport
[20:25:53] <jtektool> you have a spectrum analyzer?
[20:26:16] <cradek> nope
[20:26:20] <jtektool> it has one
[20:26:32] <jtektool> we make circuit board testers here
[20:26:56] <jtektool> and was looking for something to compete with labview is so fing slow
[20:27:38] <jtektool> scicos can make just linux executables with no "runtime layer"
[20:27:56] <jtektool> it probably takes about 5 times less cpu power
[20:28:07] <cpresser> jtektool: i was quite successful with gnu octave
[20:30:22] <cpresser> or have a look at http://comedi.org
[20:30:41] <jtektool> im using comedi with scioslab
[20:30:48] <jtektool> thats the whole point
[20:31:50] <cpresser> ah sorry, did not read everything. just the last few lines
[20:32:27] <jtektool> its cool
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[20:34:38] <tom3p> what would be some exmaple nml messages from scicos to emc? what are the applications?
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[20:41:32] <jtektool> we would be testing circuit boards and using servos to push contacts onto the boards and then using the contacts to test voltages
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[20:49:19] <tom3p> so force feedback for insertion? or just goto a number? where does NML come in?
[20:50:50] <tom3p> well it sounds very interesting, sort of like process control rather than just numerical. please post your findings.
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[20:53:09] <jtektool> right
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[20:53:26] <jtektool> sorry talking on the phone to someone about this right now
[20:53:48] <jtektool> the idea is it creates native linux binaries
[20:53:53] <jtektool> or windows if you like
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[20:58:16] <mikegg> what sorts of things will make a stepper stop moving. I mean, when the electronic HW isn't working the motor doesn't move, but the tool in AXIS still does
[20:58:31] <mikegg> now the tool in AXIS is stuck too
[20:58:53] <jtektool> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/35965228/install_linux-cnc_10.04.3_final.sh
[20:59:19] <jtektool> install script to instal data acquisition alongside linuxcnc
[20:59:27] <jtektool> ^^^needs editing
[20:59:40] <jtektool> just basic steps no bash wizardry
[21:00:13] <jtektool> works with linux_cnc up to current 10.04.3 check comments
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[21:04:22] <jtektool> sounds like your drive circuitry overloaded what drive are you using
[21:04:33] <jtektool> ^^^mikegg
[21:05:20] <jtektool> if your servos or steppers send over voltages back to drives they can overload and stop if it has overvoltage protection
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[21:06:00] <jtektool> sounds like steppers system right
[21:06:02] <jtektool> ???
[21:06:38] <jtektool> mikegg if their is no pid loop as in a closed loop servo system the software doesnt really know where its at
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[21:08:10] <tom3p> something changed from " but the tool in AXIS still does" till " now the tool in AXIS is stuck too", maybe this was jogginf and the 2nd prob is a limit.
[21:08:21] <tom3p> reduce the problem to the 1st thing.
[21:09:12] <jtektool> soft limit^ good call
[21:10:06] <tom3p> start again, running emc & report what you see happen
[21:12:11] <tom3p> sorry, gonna leave, in middle of freecad prob myself
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[21:20:47] <mikegg> nah, it's open loop
[21:21:22] <mikegg> so usually, you can jog the axis in AXIS and the tool icon will move around, because the machine thinks "Z axis is moving"
[21:21:35] <mikegg> regardless of what's going on downstream
[21:22:37] <mikegg> I did something silly, and now the tool icon in Axis isn't even moving. which is presumably a prerequisite to getting the actual axis moving
[21:24:03] <A2Sheds> PCW: are the parallel termination resistors on the 7i33 encoder inputs resistor packs or discrete smt?
[21:25:35] <A2Sheds> nevermind he's not around
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[22:23:17] <andypugh> So, how do I work out the correct operating voltage of a motor?
[22:23:50] <archivist> that which does not cause a fire
[22:23:55] <andypugh> I would look at the maker's rating plate, except I am the maker.
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[22:24:46] <andypugh> It runs fine, but gets to a point where more current just makes it squeal, rather than get faster.
[22:24:46] <archivist> well as high as you can without demagnetizing your magnets or breaking anything
[22:25:09] <andypugh> And it isn't as fast as I had hoped.
[22:25:32] <archivist> hysteresis problems in your iron?
[22:25:41] <andypugh> Possibly.
[22:25:45] <archivist> or a driver problem
[22:25:52] <andypugh> Possibly
[22:26:10] <archivist> scope and diagnose
[22:26:24] <andypugh> Static voltage would be 1.1V, I am seeing 17V AC on the motor leads.
[22:26:43] <andypugh> From a supply that is drooping to 25V.
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[22:28:22] <andypugh> This is with the 30V 7i39. I have a 50V 7i39 to try, but I am a bit short of a suitable PSU.
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[22:29:08] <archivist> can the drivers handle the inductance too
[22:29:58] <andypugh> I wouldn't like to guess, but the poles are only 50 turns.
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[22:30:44] <archivist> how are you limiting current
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[22:35:08] <archivist> andypugh, and...think how a series motor reduces the field with rpm, and a shunt(pm) does not
[22:35:36] <andypugh> archivist: The 7i39 does that for me
[22:36:04] <archivist> you have permanent magnets
[22:36:25] <syyl_> works!
[22:36:26] <syyl_> http://youtu.be/9obV2_1xmvs
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[22:38:19] <archivist> camera shake is in time with the handwheel!
[22:38:51] <archivist> only one jog wheel?
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[22:41:14] <syyl_> jip
[22:41:35] <syyl_> thats one more than bevore ;)
[22:41:39] <syyl_> *before
[22:42:14] <archivist> :)
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[22:48:52] <andypugh> archivist: I mean that current control is by the 7i39
[22:49:12] <andypugh> field weakening is something I can't have.
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[22:55:13] <elmo40> syyl: nice MPG vid :) It works very well.
[22:55:26] <syyl> yeah, i am very happy about it
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[22:55:54] <elmo40> did you modify the Z to a ballscrew?
[22:56:03] <syyl> jip
[22:56:08] <syyl> all three axis
[22:56:19] <elmo40> you must have spent quite a bit to get all those together, including the 4th
[22:57:03] <syyl> the basic machine was done after a few month
[22:57:13] <syyl> but i find everytime something to improve ;)
[22:57:18] <kbarry> Any mechmate users here?
[22:57:19] <syyl> or to add
[22:57:32] <elmo40> kbarry: used to be. whats up?
[22:58:18] <kbarry> I'm currently using my second machinei built.
[22:58:26] <kbarry> JoesCNC Hybrid as a base
[22:59:03] <kbarry> Been considering the Mechmate, seems more stable than mine (And there are things with my current machine i just can't see to rid myself of)
[22:59:40] <kbarry> In the past week i hae broken 5 bits cutting well within the limits
[22:59:42] <elmo40> there are many manufacturers out there... mechmate are not bad.
[22:59:57] <kbarry> Thinking maybe i have a runout issue
[23:01:27] <elmo40> compensate for it ;)
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[23:01:48] <elmo40> my lathe at work has a 0.002" / 24" taper, i edit the code
[23:02:01] <Turtl3boi> elmo where do you work
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[23:05:04] <elmo40> not far from home
[23:05:49] <Turtl3boi> what do you do at work?
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[23:07:20] <elmo40> program. turn parts. mill parts.
[23:08:13] <Turtl3boi> for what industry?
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[23:10:34] <A2Sheds> andypugh: how well does it work as a generator?
[23:10:45] <skunkKandT> logger[psha]:
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[23:11:42] <andypugh> A2Sheds: A bit hard to say, it doesn't really have an easy-to-spin shaft
[23:12:13] <andypugh> elmo40: I think that makes you what Neal Stephenson terms a "cerulean collar worker"
[23:13:09] <andypugh> OK, this is getting desperate, I am considering deleting one of my two resistors to free up some board space. These are 0603 size...
[23:14:26] <elmo40> gotta do what ya gotta do
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[23:17:00] <Turtl3boi> andy how much does the "F1" mill you recommended cost
[23:17:03] <Turtl3boi> and who makes it
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[23:19:32] <andypugh> Aciera made them, until about the 1970s, and they cost a _lot_
[23:20:12] <Turtl3boi> does Emco make them now
[23:20:18] <syyl> i would kill for a full equiped aciera f1 ;)
[23:20:20] <syyl> no
[23:20:27] <syyl> emco makes emco mills
[23:20:36] <andypugh> I was attempting jocularity when I suggested it, if space is all you were short of. http://www.lathes.co.uk/aciera/index.html
[23:20:51] <Turtl3boi> what does jocularity mean on your side of the atlantic
[23:21:00] <Turtl3boi> lol
[23:21:38] <JT-Shop> I've not heard jocularity since viewing an old MASH rerun
[23:21:54] <elmo40> Turtl3boi: in south dakota?
[23:22:12] <Turtl3boi> lol nobody uses that word in north america
[23:22:17] <syyl> that term is also unknown to me
[23:22:23] * syyl googles
[23:22:40] <Turtl3boi> i think it means like "rough housing" or goofing off
[23:22:51] <elmo40> i work in a shop that makes steel mill equipment. concrete mullers. eccentric rock crushers for mining... large heavy stuff ;) Everything I touch needs a crane.
[23:23:06] * syyl got enlightened
[23:23:17] <Mjolinor> is the run button in stepconf a repeatable signal? ie shoudl it go and return to adn from the exact same place?
[23:23:42] <andypugh> Hardly anyone uses it here. I like to rehabilitate outmoded words.
[23:23:55] <JT-Shop> Mjolinor: your question doesn't make much sense
[23:24:11] <Mjolinor> hmm
[23:24:16] <Mjolinor> no change their then :)
[23:24:16] <JT-Shop> andypugh: so did George Carlin
[23:24:51] <Mjolinor> can't think of another way to ask it
[23:25:21] <JT-Shop> stepconf? doesn't have a run button iirc
[23:25:31] <Mjolinor> well mine does :)
[23:25:53] <JT-Shop> stepconf creates a configuration
[23:25:58] <Mjolinor> it moves the axes backwards and forwards over the distance you set at a speed and acc you set
[23:26:15] <JT-Shop> do you mean "test this axis" part?
[23:26:37] <Mjolinor> in the stepper set up page where you set the pulleys teeth and lead screw pitch etc there is a test axis button that opens a dioalog with a run button in
[23:26:44] <Mjolinor> yes
[23:27:45] <Mjolinor> i connected my computer up to thte lathe tonight for the first time and the steppers do not behave
[23:28:29] <Mjolinor> but stepconf doesn't entirely behave sensibly to me anyway so I wondered if that "RUN" button was exact or only approximate
[23:29:12] <Mjolinor> it is hard to knwo where to look for problems when I haven't used the software that much and the lathe hasn't turned it's lead screw for 15 years
[23:29:15] <JT-Shop> no, it is exact to what you have set for distance
[23:30:11] <Mjolinor> it did soemthign strange though, I set the stepper pulley teeth to 1 and the lead screw teeth to 2 and told it to run 100 mm, the stepper turned 9 3/4 times
[23:30:25] <Mjolinor> I went back adn chagned hte teeth to 1:1 and the stepper turned 31 times
[23:30:33] <Mjolinor> that didnt make any sense to me at all
[23:31:10] <JT-Shop> what did Axis Scale say on that axis?
[23:31:44] <Mjolinor> hmm, need a screen shot to remmeber
[23:32:42] <JT-Shop> ok, scale is the only number that matters
[23:33:08] <JT-Shop> how many steps it takes to move one unit (mm or inch however you have it set)
[23:33:24] <Mjolinor> 200 pulses per once round for the stepper
[23:33:36] <Mjolinor> I didnt change anything but the pulley ratio
[23:33:39] <JT-Shop> yes, that is normal for a stepper
[23:34:13] <JT-Shop> so how many turns per unit for you?
[23:34:16] <Mjolinor> cant find any screenshots now
[23:34:18] <JT-Shop> are you mm or inch
[23:34:23] <Mjolinor> mm
[23:34:34] <JT-Shop> ok how many turns per mm
[23:35:37] <Mjolinor> I had it on 5
[23:36:00] <JT-Shop> what is is actually? by physical meaurement
[23:36:18] <Mjolinor> but whatever they were set to in my mind if I change hte teeth ratio only then the number of turns of the stepper shoudl ahve doubled
[23:36:23] <JT-Shop> if you turn the stepper shaft 5 times the axis moves 1mm?
[23:36:36] <Mjolinor> it has a 5mm pitch so once round on the lead screw is 5 mmm movement
[23:36:57] <Mjolinor> no
[23:37:04] <JT-Shop> ok so 1/5 of a turn per mm, does your drive require microstepping?
[23:37:07] <Mjolinor> if I turn the steppr once the axis moves 5mm
[23:37:20] <Mjolinor> it has micro stepping turned on
[23:37:25] <Mjolinor> or off :)
[23:37:29] <Mjolinor> I had it all ways tonight
[23:37:32] <JT-Shop> how many microsteps
[23:37:39] <Mjolinor> tried 1 2 8 16
[23:37:50] <JT-Shop> what do you have the drive set to?
[23:38:15] <Mjolinor> but I dont see how any of that changes the fact that altering the teeth ratio by a factor of 2 gave an increase of almost 4 times in the stepper turns
[23:38:43] <andypugh> Mjolinor: You are right that that seems odd.
[23:38:44] <Mjolinor> on the microstepping hte setting on the driveer baord was the same as stepconf
[23:39:16] <JT-Shop> so what is the microstepping set to on your drive?
[23:39:26] <Mjolinor> on the stepper?
[23:39:31] <Mjolinor> motor
[23:39:40] <Mjolinor> I dont have a data sheet for the stepper motors
[23:39:41] <JT-Shop> on the stepper drive
[23:39:59] <JT-Shop> no, the drive what does it require?
[23:40:10] <Mjolinor> the drive being the stepper driver board?
[23:40:16] <Mjolinor> or the stepper motor?
[23:40:17] <JT-Shop> yes
[23:40:23] <JT-Shop> the driver board
[23:40:30] <Mjolinor> it was set hte same as stepconf
[23:40:40] <JT-Shop> which is?
[23:40:53] <Mjolinor> I tried all of them to try to get the stepper to move repeatedly
[23:41:02] <Mjolinor> 1 2 8 or 16
[23:41:02] <JT-Shop> what is it set to now?
[23:41:10] <Mjolinor> it is in a million bits now :)
[23:41:11] <JT-Shop> what is it set to now
[23:41:16] <Mjolinor> I am not in the same place as the lathe
[23:41:42] <JT-Shop> ok if it is set to 1 then your scale needs to be 40
[23:41:59] <Mjolinor> I took the steppers out and dismantled them as they hadn't run for 15 years I thought it prudent to look as they did not seem to be behaving sensibly
[23:42:04] <JT-Shop> it is just simple math how many steps to go one mm
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[23:42:21] <Mjolinor> yes but that isnt the problem
[23:42:26] <Mjolinor> the arithmatic isnt a problem
[23:42:32] <JT-Shop> ok I'm confused now
[23:42:53] <Mjolinor> the problem is why did it go 32 turns when the pulley ratio is 1:1 and 9 3/4 turns whent eh pulley ratio is 1:2
[23:43:08] <elmo40> question. If I put an encoder on a treadmill DC drive as a lathe spindle could EMC use the input to tap with by moving z accordingly?
[23:43:32] <Mjolinor> which makes me think that stepconf did seomthing I dont understand which also made me wonder if the RUN button produces an emitrly repeatable signal
[23:43:37] <Mjolinor> which is why I asked :)
[23:44:32] <JT-Shop> you should take note of the scale number before testing to make sure it is what you expect
[23:45:03] <Mjolinor> I know that the lead screw shoudl do 1200 mm/min according to the lathe spec so working backwards fmor that I can work out how fast hte stepper shoudl be able to turn but I can only get it to go at 1/10 of the speed that I think it should
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[23:45:44] <Mjolinor> but I had hte stepper apart and it is perfect inside, absolutely nothign wrong so I am looking for why
[23:46:09] <Mjolinor> possible reasons that maybe I dont have hte phasing right on the 8 wire to 4 wire connection though I don't knwo ifhte phasing matters on that
[23:46:13] <syyl> uhm
[23:46:15] <JT-Shop> voltage too low? acceleration too high?
[23:46:27] <syyl> iirc taking a stepper apart is not to good
[23:46:27] <JT-Shop> yes that too
[23:47:03] <Mjolinor> noise on the power supply rails, I am using a 30 amp switched mode PSU that shoudl be entirely capable but I have a volt ripple on it c aused by the stepper so I stucka load of smoothign in there adn it got better but sitll it's not what I woudl call smooth
[23:47:30] <JT-Shop> so you have supplied a new power supply is it the same voltage as the original?
[23:47:32] <Mjolinor> I didnt want to take it apart but really I needed to know and i have some spares anyway
[23:47:58] <Mjolinor> there is no orignial
[23:48:07] <Mjolinor> I took everythign out of it and fitted new electronics
[23:48:24] <Mjolinor> I am sort of wondering if hte 6560 stepper driver chips are not what they shoudl be
[23:48:38] <Mjolinor> I think I will build a discrete darlington driver adn use a pic
[23:48:39] <JT-Shop> unless your stepper drive board can morph from micro stepping to full steps it will be noisy at some rpm
[23:48:46] <Mjolinor> remvoe the cheap crap jsut to try it
[23:49:12] <Mjolinor> sio that is normal then
[23:49:34] <Mjolinor> it would run smoothly at 15 mm / sec and at 23 , OK at 10 but crap at 6
[23:49:53] <Mjolinor> I expected to find a maximum speed it woudl work at and anything below that would smooth
[23:49:57] <Mjolinor> is that not the case?
[23:50:02] <andypugh> elmo40: Yes
[23:50:35] <andypugh> Mjolinor: What step rate would you need (steps per second) to reach the max speed?
[23:50:56] <Mjolinor> dont have that info here right now, its on scraps of paper with the lathe
[23:51:27] <Mjolinor> it is a 31 to 12 ratio on the lead screw / stepper adn a 5 mm pitch and it shoudl do 1200 mm / minute
[23:51:43] <Mjolinor> too late to work that out right now :)
[23:53:38] <Mjolinor> also of note si that on the cross slide (2.5 mm pitch) stepconf set to 200 mm it actually produced a movement of only 60 mm
[23:53:46] <Mjolinor> so something is screwy somewhere
[23:53:58] <andypugh> 1200mm/min is 240 rpm = 800 steps/sec = no problem.
[23:54:31] <Mjolinor> so thats 4 revs / sec
[23:54:36] <Mjolinor> it will not go anywhere near that
[23:55:01] <andypugh> I was wondering if you were running out of step rate
[23:55:10] <andypugh> what is your base thread?
[23:55:26] <Mjolinor> no idea
[23:55:56] <Mjolinor> is that the settings on the first page of stepconf?
[23:56:10] <Mjolinor> I left those at default because I have no idea wht to set them to
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[23:57:06] <andypugh> I think it might matter, perhaps you got crazy-big numbers.
[23:57:17] <elmo40> andypugh: nice. now to put them all together :P
[23:57:41] <Mjolinor> hmm, thats a problem then. I cant find a data sheet for the steppers
[23:59:39] <andypugh> Mjolinor: That would be a PC-realted number, not a stepper-related one